virtual-reality

[haughty thistle]

I actually ordered my last Ikea set to be shipped by truck; soo... uhh... yeah.

[lime pewter]

bus/metro for within cities
trains for mid-to long range
airplanes only needed to travel like 1000km+

[weak bluff]

no by 1000km it is coverable by train plane by 3000km+ or over islands

[lime pewter]

trains are faster than airplanes because you don't have to wait 2 hours for it to go

[weak bluff]

you also dont drive hours to airport and another hour in security

airports cannot be located in city centre

[haughty thistle]

I like how france did it. Any distance that can be reached in less then 2.5h by train can't be offered as a plane ride. At least not as a commercial flight...

[weak bluff]

but muh hyperloop then proceed to never finish it

[lime pewter]

I would just ban cars in towns/cities with a certain population
so it slowly shifts to only remote areas

where it actually makes sense

outside of cities
where walking speed is faster than driving speed
and also doesn't increase noise level by a shit ton

[weak bluff]

that is quite narrow thing to say to make that feasible you have to make sure towns have enough services and room for emergency vehicles Netherlands does nto ban cars it just makes it expensive and discouraging but when you really have no choice it won't be impossible

[haughty thistle]

Maybe not ban them outright, but ban personal ownership of cars in cities. If you need/want a car in a city, it has to be a rental and the rental period should be limited to the time you're driving the car

[weak bluff]

and make alternatives faster than cars

in Japan to own a car you must prove you have a parking spot

[lime pewter]

I mean, alternatives faster than cars within cities:
cycling and walking

[weak bluff]

the goal is when you open google maps the public transport is not longer than car

[haughty thistle]

That's a good way of doing it. Also, they encourage getting a small car by offering reduced taxes for cars that are smaller then a certain size and have under a specific power target. They're called Kei Cars

[weak bluff]

semi trucks must be heavily regulated

EU also have heavy efficiency standards preventing huge cars

[lime pewter]

a bus and a car would be equal if there was more space for a bus technically
and would also take up less space because it isn't 1 person per vehicle

considering in most places you can't go faster than like 30-80km anyway

[haughty thistle]

I still think the running cost of a car should be determined by the power of the engine, size of the body and weight of the car (with a weight offset for battery EVs as they're inherently heavier then an ICE car)

[weak bluff]

that is what EU does

[lime pewter]

Probably also just related to trucks being weapons on wheels

[haughty thistle]

Problem is that the EU is making excemptions for larger Cars, because oh no the poor VW, PSA and Renault-Nissan Groups wouldn't be able to sell their SUVs as well anymore ;-;

[weak bluff]

they are heavy, poorly designed as a truck (a van is better), in efficient, have terrible vision blind spot and much higher chance of killing pedestrian compared to small cars that most of the time just injure

[lime pewter]

most railway in EU sucks sadly

with its like 80kph

[haughty thistle]

Ha! Haha! It's a lot better in the EU then it is elsewhere. The only exception to this is Japan. But railways in the US are even worse

[lime pewter]

need more railway above 200kph

[lime pewter]

I mean, its US
quantity over quality taken to the extreme
all that matters is bigger is better

[weak bluff]

the SUV dont serve well for what it designed for anyways

SUV suck as transport vehicle and as passenger

lose lose

[weak bluff]

its the US companies lobby and corporate propaganda

[haughty thistle]

(in reference to the more railways over 200)
You can't really do that in a space as densily populated as the EU. The DB (Deutsch Bahn; German Railway) explicitly designed their new ICE 4 to not be as fast in top speed as their ICE 3 because of efficiency. The ICE 3 barely reached it's top speed on the few tracks it actually could (300kph) so the new ICE 4 tops out at 250kph, which even that it still barely reaches on most tracks...

[lime pewter]

when I get a personal vehicle
Imma just get a motorcycle, cars trash

[weak bluff]

you have to blame poor standards which EU is addressing the issue soon

many countries already have high speed rail but domestic only

[weak bluff]

ah wait DB is not a good standard LOL

[lime pewter]

can you really call it densily populated when most of the buildings in cities are 2-5 tall at most?

[weak bluff]

yet it is better than suburbs

American suburbs

[lime pewter]

it is better than anything american
but its america

it looks like a third world country

[haughty thistle]

Ever been in a Train in Germany vs France? While in France most of the time the train is actually travelling, in Germany it stops what feels like every 10-20 minutes at a station

[weak bluff]

in Germany on time train is news

[lime pewter]

Only time I've been on a train in germany it was high speed rail from freiburg to zurich

father used to live in freiburg, so I went to visit him and then went there with train..

more high speed rail between cities and more average speed from cities to surrounding villages please

[haughty thistle]

Been on an ICE from Hannover to: Berlin, Hamburg, Nürnberg & Frankfurt. With the exception of the Hannover <-> Frankfurt Train, there were constant stops at stations. Only two times I sat in an ICE 2 (which does display the current speed of travel unlike the newer ICEs) and only once I've seen 300kph and that wasn't for very long either. More efficient travel would be to travel at a constant speed then to try and chase the highest speed possible at any given time

[weak bluff]

good luck with German bureaucracy speed

such efficiency

[lime pewter]

main thing I dislike about germany is them actively choosing coal over nuclear a while back..

[haughty thistle]

Thank the CDU for that. The largest political party in Germany, and most of their top politicians are in the pocket of large Corporate Groups...

[weak bluff]

but buuuut no nuclear aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

coal is more radioactive than nuclear powerplants btw

[lime pewter]

wonder what the average death caused by coal per century vs average by nuclear per century would be

[haughty thistle]

When Fukushima happened, they panicked and made the decision to turn off nuclear (which is super stupid as now we got this giant burden on the power grid that is both dangerous and takes tones of power to maintain rather then producing tons of power...

[weak bluff]

and BTW Japan started to restart nuclear power plant shut since then and planning MORE

Fukushima was preventable if the planned protection was done. It failed because of human error not design error.

[haughty thistle]

Poland actually got a big fincancial support by the US to build 20 new Nuclear power plants

[weak bluff]

and South Korea

[haughty thistle]

I don't support building new Nuclear plants, but I also don't support turning them off currently

[lime pewter]

aren't all of the "disasters" with nuclear caused by human error in some way

[weak bluff]

exactly

[lime pewter]

will need nuclear in some way if we don't want to make 90% of our land batteries, solar and wind

no consistent power otherwise

[weak bluff]

nuclear is a stopgap until better solutions come

[haughty thistle]

We don't have any good alternatives to replace Nuclear, but in the long run Nuclear is also bad (because of the waste problem). So imo we should keep the ones that are running today and strive to first replace fossil plants before replacing the nuclear ones, but both with sustainable and clean energy

[lime pewter]

at least there seem to be some uses for the waste and its little compared to other options

[weak bluff]

the waste isnt that much troublesome Finland just dug it deep and be done with it

[haughty thistle]

Imagine if Nuclear power plants were built to use Thorium. Some experts say that Thorium would produce less harmful waste and might even produce more power then Uranium, but ofc all the infrastructure is built on Uranium Nuclear power plants because the waste can be used in production of Nuclear bombs (which was more important for the US then cleaner energy)

[lime pewter]

did they even know about "clean energy"

or things like "clean drinking water"

back then?

[haughty thistle]

[abstract birch]

no party has contributed against that problem

if all they all contributing in creating it

but then none of them wanted to prevent the problems that arise from no more nuclear

[hallow cliff]

i think the idea behind thorium and plutonium based reactors is that it is much harder to weaponize

since both thorium and plutonium need to be present

[harsh niche]

Fukushima failed because they designed the backup generator to be in a stupid place where a flood could get to it and kill it

[harsh niche]

wait what

why did the US help Poland with power plants?

[haughty thistle]

I dunno, but it was in the news recently...

[maiden kettle]

best vr set for under 700/800€?

(im looking at teh cosmos elite set, it seems good)

[haughty thistle]

That's not that great honestly

A better option would be the Reverb G2 if you want to buy new, or alternatively you can get a used Index or Vive Pro 1 set in that price range as well. I mentioned specifically the Vive Pro 1 as the Vive Pro 2 absolutely sucks

[maiden kettle]

ok, I found a cosmos elite used for 300€

(whole set, with the wireless controllers)

[haughty thistle]

The Cosmos Elite is basically a budget index with some of the worst controllers and a stupid hinge that makes the lenses not be aligned properly

[maiden kettle]

ok thanks!

I'll look for the ones you recommended

[grizzled field]

trains are the greatest form of transportation

[rustic garnet]

Wait which controllers does it have

Doesn't the cosmos have touch-like controllers

[maiden kettle]

vive wand

[tawdry dove]

Thorium is more plentiful, energy dense, easier + less polluting to mine, and it creates vastly less radioactive waste after reacting

The whole bomb thing is negligeable

I also didn't see that chicken bread brought up 2 of those points

[grizzled field]

yeah I feel like people are overly scared of nuclear reactors, and they're probably the best way of making electricity

[zinc knoll]

Same

Nuclear reactors are one of the safest ways to produce energy because of the safety precautions

[grizzled field]

I also feel like this is the Virtual Reality thread, and we shouldn't be talking about electricity, and instead, should be talking about VR XD

[gloomy crater]

I think I just messed up. I was doing a recorded video interview just now for a job I'm trying to get hired for and the question was 'what's your favorite piece of technology and how would you explain it to someone who's never heard of it before' so I spent a bunch of time talking about the valve index and VR before I realized this whole thing is timed and I had gone way over the time limit for that question and had to speedrun the rest of the recording

[haughty thistle]

Oof

[rustic garnet]

owhat??? In this day and age?

Why lol

[maiden kettle]

high stocks?

[haughty thistle]

Also apparently a lot of business VR applications have hard-coded bindings for the wands...

[silent harness]

Will an rx 7900 XTX cause issues in vr games?

I know AMD is aware of the issues

But are they are bad

[lime pewter]

I’ve only ever seen either terrible or its fine being said in comparison to nvidia

[maiden kettle]

only issues i've heard about the 7900xtx are the cooling issues at the start from the vapourchamber

[weak bluff]

It performs same as 6900 XT in VR btw

AMD its been months and still have not fixed that issue

[zinc knoll]

rx 7000 series is really not very well optimised in VR rn, probably will be a year but not right now

just dont buy off of promises of better driver support

[silent harness]

I would love to get a rtx 4080 but here in Bulgaria prices are a bit over retail

Around 400bgn over

[zinc knoll]

thats not too much, basically an AIB card over in the US

[weak bluff]

price are dropping expect it to be cheaper in months

[warm stirrup]

How good is an rx 6950xt in VR performance compared to a 3070 or 3080?

[lime pewter]

somewhere between -100% and +10000% performance

[zinc knoll]

6950xt if i recall is like 30% worse than a 3090 in VR, but has enough VRAM for games to eat up so it probably performs slightly better than a 3080.

[grizzled field]

the 6950xt is $200 cheaper than the rtx 3080, so it performs +100000% better

XD, seriously though ever so slightly better for $200 cheaper is a great deal, also know as LES GO AMD, and F U INVIDIA

[grizzled field]

I'm planning on using the AMD Radeon rx 6650 XT for an eGPU for my laptop, its $250 and performs right in-between a 3060 and a 3060 Ti

[tawdry dove]

I saw a rx 6700 for $280 recently

[grizzled field]

nice bro, you gonna get it?

[tawdry dove]

no

I have a 6700xt already

[weak bluff]

You have good CPU? Also using 6750 XT on lqptop means you will be running it at PCI-E x4 which is a massive performance loss

You might even get close or even to RX 6600 XT performance because of that

[grizzled field]

I've got a core i7 so yeah

[weak bluff]

There is more than just i7

If its like Core i7 7500U then uh forget it

[grizzled field]

oh yeah its a core i7 8565U

[weak bluff]

Eh still quite a bottleneck there

[grizzled field]

but its better than intel UHD 620 graphics XD

[weak bluff]

Single thread performance depends on boost since base clock is quite low

Its during coffee lake and the best GPU it could pair was GTX 1060 mobile

[grizzled field]

OOF

[weak bluff]

And that is on Surface Book 2

I would argue most balanced xd would be RX 6500 XT

Ouch

[grizzled field]

maybe my brother was right and it is time to build a desktop...

[grizzled field]

how would the RX 6500 XT do in PCVR on the Quest 2? No like hard games, just VR Minecraft and VR Roblox?

[tawdry dove]

it would perform fine

[grizzled field]

thanks thats what I needed

[weak bluff]

Actually there can be issues

I did not factor playing vr but

Because 6500 XT have no encoder idk how it will perform with just Intel GPU for Quest 2

[tawdry dove]

oh I read 6650xt

[weak bluff]

That is probably biggest issue for playing quest

[tawdry dove]

yeah I would either save up more to get a rx 6600 or buy used

[weak bluff]

Yeah or used GTX 1070

[grizzled field]

NO NVIDIA CARDS

[weak bluff]

Fine RX 5600 XT

[grizzled field]

ok XD

so what then would be the best decently priced AMD GPU for lightweight VR on the Quest 2?

[weak bluff]

Low end, RX 580 8GB (You can buy new recycled nowadays), something higher mayve RX 5700 XT or RX 6600 and decent RX 6700 XT

Idk mobile gpu

RX 6800 is quite futureproof

[grizzled field]

I'm talking Desktop GPU not mobile

[weak bluff]

Ye they all desktop

[grizzled field]

alr

[weak bluff]

I dont do mobile recommendation since i dont touch it much

[grizzled field]

neither do I XD

[weak bluff]

I wish AMD will make 16GB version of RX 7600

I really need VRAM

[grizzled field]

yeah that would be nice, but it doesnt rlly matter for me, 7600 is way beyond my budget

like I'd rather not go over $300 for a GPU

[weak bluff]

My next gpu might be RTX 2060 12GB or i might wait for 6700 XT price drop or Intel support VR

[grizzled field]

look, I kinda think you already know I'm going to say, go AMD

[weak bluff]

My RX 6600 XT already running at 7.7GB VRAM on auto resolution

And ultilization is never more than 80%

[grizzled field]

hmm I'm guessing thats not good

[weak bluff]

I cant raise res since that will hike vram xd so my gpu will never run 100%

[grizzled field]

oh ok lol

what res do you run at?

[weak bluff]

Around 1500pixels squared

Its auto

[grizzled field]

what headset?

[weak bluff]

Quest 2

[grizzled field]

oh ok, nice, thats what I'm planning on getting, just cuz you can get them $200 on Facebook marketplace

[weak bluff]

I bought 6600 XT and since then 6600 XT price has risen LOL

GPU market is wild now

[grizzled field]

it is, I blame invidia

[paper mason]

Vram!!! How much vram do you have

[weak bluff]

8GB

[burnt oasis]

what's your budget

[burnt oasis]

that's a first, amd is also to blame for the price increase, they're their own company and could've priced things cheaper but they didn't

[weak bluff]

AMD is just happy to be in 2nd place

[lime pewter]

when 2nd place is basically last place still

intel still a joke imo

too weak

[weak bluff]

Give intel some time its really hard to become gpu maker

Chinese tried their driver is garbo 3dfx tried then failed

Them being garbage is necessary to make it good in future

[haughty thistle]

3dfx could still be around if they didn't went and f'ed over their board partners (kinda like Nvidia is doing rn)

The difference is that 3dfx did it so early on that they just couldn't survive for very long after going First-Party only. They only lasted 4 years from first product till bankruptcy. Nvidia is huge, but them f'ing over their partners is going to hurt them long-term. It's also why Intel was so desperate getting thrid-parties on board with Arc...

[weak bluff]

So if Nvidia keep doing it more AIB will leave enough to bankrupt them

Maybe Intel will magnet those leaving partners

[zinc knoll]

Getting a GTX 10 series would give Nvidia the middle finger more than getting any other nvidia gpu though, since it would show that the most popular generations were the ones with actual value.

EVGA intel ARC wen?

[haughty thistle]

I mean technically, until they start making GPUs again they should just rebrand to "E" or "EPSU". Because EVGA stands for "Extreme Video Graphics Adapter"...

[weak bluff]

they layoff gpu division already hard to reverse that

[grizzled field]

I dont want to go over $300 for a GPU

[grizzled field]

but would a GTX 10 series card, work for VR? And again, not heavy VR just VR Minecraft on a quest 2

[burnt oasis]

are you willing to buy used?

[zinc knoll]

gtx 1060 6gb would work fine for VR minecraft

a 1060 6gb can run HL alyx on low

[burnt oasis]

i was gonna say a 3060 used bc of the vram

[zinc knoll]

alos 1080tis only cost 200 bucks

[burnt oasis]

yea

[zinc knoll]

you can get a 1060 6gb as low as 50, and a 1080ti as low as 200

[burnt oasis]

3060 is 250

[grizzled field]

RX 6650 XTs are $250 and perform in-between a 3060 and 3060 Ti

[burnt oasis]

and less than half the power draw

[zinc knoll]

yea, 1080ti would outperform them though afaik

[zinc knoll]

that would be the only issue

[burnt oasis]

1080ti barely outperforms the 3060 at 4k

like within 5%

[zinc knoll]

3060 was a good VR card since the 12 gigs of vram

just 3060s rn are stupid expensive

[grizzled field]

seriously a 1080ti outperforms the 3060, what price?

[zinc knoll]

like idioitically

[grizzled field]

they are

thats why I was going to get the RX 6650 XT

[zinc knoll]

cheapest 3060 i can find is 340

[zinc knoll]

6650 XT would be good its just a little bit lacking in VRAM compared to 1080ti or 3060, it would work fine though

might not be able to run DCS at decent settings on a Q2 but thats another story

a 4090 barely runs DCS good anyways

in VR

[grizzled field]

all I care about is VR Minecraft, and VR Roblox

so it doesnt have to be super powerful

[zinc knoll]

if you can afford a PSU for a 1080ti, go for 1080ti, if you cant, go for 6650xt or similar

a memory OC on the 6650XT would be a good first step too

[grizzled field]

alr thx

[zinc knoll]

6650XT will give you drivers into the future, and games will support it longer, 1080ti is basically the go-to, can run all VR games GPU for cheapish

1080ti really only needs a 600w psu

it doesnt draw that much power, only like 250w

like 4070 level

[grizzled field]

im thinking I'll see if I can find the 6650 XT used

Minecraft Legends just told me I have below recommended CPU/GPU ouch :/

[zinc knoll]

oof

trying to buy a used oculus rift S off ebay for like 140 dollars total so i can actually play VR while waiting to have enough funds for a decent setup

[burnt oasis]

200-250 on ebay

[burnt oasis]

also lacks in memory bandwitch

its the only reason the 1080ti beats the 3060 at higher resolutions

[burnt oasis]

holy fuck i lied its 150 used now

[gloomy crater]

Dang I have a GTX 1080 on the shelf over there I use for hardware testing occasionally. I didn't think it could still perform well on account of its age. Maybe I should actually use it for something... Then again, I still have an RX580 in my streaming PC so

[weak bluff]

10 series is the time Nvidia starts making VR optimised GPUs. During that time Nvidia presentation was heavy about optimization for VR with VRWorks and low latency such

https://youtu.be/nhQCV6pNqY4

Nvidia caredabout VR more back then than now

Bcuz they thouh this will help sell GPU but uuh kinda they just dont have to try that hard

[gloomy wave]

vr is getting super real

[weak bluff]

Eeeeh in the past years more like VR quality has stalled

Indie dev just cannot reach so far

[lime pewter]

Its either garbage standalone or like 3000-4000$ required to get into vr (pc + headset)

600-700 without controllers here

[gloomy crater]

stuff is cheap here so I have no point of comparison really

[lime pewter]

Costs more on sites that are actually known, lol

Basically Enthusiast only

Don’t really think vr is going to expand much unless either standalone isn’t limited af or pcvr is within normal people price ranges

[gloomy crater]

Well smartphones and computers were both prohibitively expensive back when they were new technology. Nowadays you can pretty much get a functional smartphone at literally any price range, and they've only existed for <2 decades. Unfortunately the same can not be said about computers which remain pretty much nonexistent below the $150 threshold. But I feel like VR will likely follow this pattern and by 2030-2035 will have dropped in price significantly as the necessary technology required to run VR efficiently becomes less costly and more plentiful.

That is assuming humans don't erase themselves from existence before then

[lime pewter]

And If it still exists

And not only for business

[tawdry dove]

am I crazy or did the reverb g2 just drop in price

I can get the headset and controllers for $440

this is insane

[lime pewter]

Around 850 here on known sites

[gloomy crater]

yup it does appear to be on sale for $450 on the US website

[zinc knoll]

its like 400 on amazon

[fervent mauve]

vccx'

[little plinth]

after a long drive i got the pico 4

at last

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/iVRy_VR/status/1654761982409449473

iVRy (@iVRy_VR)

Day #68 of working on PSVR2:

• Can pass authentication on PC. This means the PSVR2 thinks we're a PS5 and trusts us. We can continue with the real work now.

Likes

266

Twitter · May 6, 2023, 8:16 AM

[little plinth]

yeahh i already hit my controller on the table because i'm starting to forget what's real

;-;

it's trippy

[zinc knoll]

VR is trippy

You forget stuff is there

That's why you need a big space

[little plinth]

i got big space but i'd need to get a router first, now i'm relying on a 2 meter USB

though wireless somehow kills my CPU

how much would i need to build my own slime trackers

[weak bluff]

I build mine with BMI160 for $40 5+3

It works then there are some issues and now i stopped using it

[weak bluff]

What stream software? You might have to switch to hardware encoding.

[little plinth]

pico streaming assistant (still can't buy VD yet)

[weak bluff]

That is odd so Pico use software encoding

[little plinth]

it uses GPU encoding

steamvr is what kills my CPU on wireless

[frozen zinc]

SteamVR prob uses to CPU to encode

[tawdry dove]

Idk why it would

[dull tide]

I need a chaperone for VR. I’m constantly in between two worlds

Been doing GMOD VR after HL2VR

When a game has Vr support but still has physics so you REALLY have to bend over to pick something up, but you can’t lean on a desk to balance yourself

[grizzled field]

every time I've played VR its been like trippy for like 2 minutes and then I'm used to it

its really not bad

[tawdry dove]

I wish I could go back to the first times I played vr

now I'm always innately aware of my surroundings

I can get annoyed with my phone being in my pocket after 30 mintues of gameplay and just throw my phone without looking and have it land exactly in the right spot every time

[weak bluff]

I can't feel immersed like first time too yes

Some people said they managed to get that feeling back when they try Bigscreen Beyond

[zinc knoll]

you probably have your play area memorized, if possible try switching areas to increase VR effectiveness (lol that sounded like a popup guide)

[tawdry dove]

nah

it doesn't wear off

[zinc knoll]

lol probably not

im trying to finally actually get a headset (used rift s) before i start saving for a bigger GPU and a reverb G2 and a nice HOTAS

[tawdry dove]

I've heard bad things about the rift s

my gut reaction is to say not to get it but maybe you'll find one at a good price

[zinc knoll]

currently have a bid for like 60 bucks for one with two left hand controllers

so it would end up costing around 120 with another right hand controller

[tawdry dove]

that is quite cheap

[formal willow]

if the software works its easy to run and it's cheap so sure its not the best but not that bad either

[rustic garnet]

The WRM controller is really like the unholy child of a vive wand and a rift touch

[zinc knoll]

It's just a 1440p display strapped to my head, and it's cheap enough where I can afford it, and it won't eat into my existing budget, so I can play VR with my current setup without having to wait many months

[zinc knoll]

Pretty sure the quality of the plastics is subpar, but I should only need it for a few months until I get a new GPU and a reverb G2

[zinc knoll]

Then the rift S would probably be delegated to secondary duties, if someone wanted to borrow it for a while or smth. Or if I needed something for a game on older hardware.

[violet charm]

i want a pimax crystal, but jesus christ almight the price

o_o

[weak bluff]

Do you have the PC to max out Pimax Crystal potential first

And if you do then you can afford it

Dont even think about it if you dont even have good PC for it

[warm stirrup]

Wait the pimax crystal is out?

[weak bluff]

Check it out yourself

[grizzled field]

no the Rifts S is crap, my brother had one, it was good for a while, but he's hardly used it and it already has dead pixels

[little plinth]

fuck pico 4 lack of software is worse than i thought. and my pc cant do pcvr properly without upgrading the cpu

[tawdry dove]

You just have no idea what state the software will be in when it launches

[burnt oasis]

honestly a bigscreen beyond is a great choice for the price, it does lose in clarity and fov but definitely is a winner in comfort

[faint mist]

yo so i wanna ask how do i access chrome or youtube through steam vr

[rustic garnet]

The desktop view?

[zinc knoll]

did he store it next to a window or have the sun shine in the lenses?

[grizzled field]

I honestly don't know, but everyone else's experience, at least that I've heard of, has had similar issues and been all around pretty bad :/

[grizzled field]

why? I don't see what the point is unless your trying to watch a certain kind of video

-_-

[faint mist]

i see alot of those london VR videos on youtube and they look cool

[grizzled field]

uh huh, whatever you say

[faint mist]

and trust me if ur talkin abt p**n u can do that on the oculus web lmao

just talkin abt youtube

so how do i do it?

[grizzled field]

Download the SteamVR app as well as the Canary Chrome browser.
Next, type the following lines in your browser’s address bar: chrome://flags#enable-webvr, chrome://flags#webxr, and chrome://flags#openvr.
Press Enter after each one and set them to Enabled.
Finally, launch the SteamVR app to check if it is tracking.

[faint mist]

canary?

[grizzled field]

yeah its a version of chrome that supports VR

[faint mist]

normal chrome doesnt? thats weird

well thank u ima try it tmrw

[sullen linden]

Launch 64gb “oculus” quest 2 hehe

[slate ore]

I made a thing, come visit, and let me know how I did =] https://youtu.be/pRSsV0FNhIk

[weak bluff]

Switched from Wifi to Link cable first time in months it felt less artifacting man

[pale orbit]

https://youtu.be/Gz6mAX41fs0

[pale orbit]

A few weeks ago I posted a video demonstrating a Python script I am working on which lets you talk to NPCs in Skyrim via ChatGPT and xVASynth. Since then I have been working to integrate this Python script with Skyrim’s own modding tools and I have reached a few exciting milestones:

NPCs are now aware of their current location and time of day. This opens up lots of possibilities for ChatGPT to react to the game world dynamically instead of waiting to be given context by the player. As an example, I no longer have issues with shopkeepers trying to barter with me in the Bannered Mare after work hours. NPCs are also aware of the items picked up by the player during conversation. This means that if you loot a chest, harvest an animal pelt, or pick a flower, NPCs will be able to comment on these actions.

NPCs are now lip synced with xVASynth. This is obviously much more natural than the floaty proof-of-concept voices I had before. I have also made some quality of life improvements such as getting response times down to ~15 seconds and adding a spell to start conversations.

When everything is in place, it is an incredibly surreal experience to be able to sit down and talk to these characters in VR. Nothing takes me out of the experience more than hearing the same repeated voice lines, and with this no two responses are ever the same. There is still a lot of work to go, but even in its current state I couldn’t go back to playing without this.

[grizzled field]

that's incredible, I always wondered why no one had smashed VR and AI together, and some sort of way to use an AI like chatGPT to create VR worlds would be really cool so you could just tell the AI what you want the world to be like, and then have it generate it for you would be incredible

what I REALLY want though is AI, VR and Quantum computing mixed together into some sort of un-holy trinity, now what that would entail for society? Probably the end of the world, but I still want to see it

[weak bluff]

https://twitter.com/I3Llamas/status/1655291068403916802

I3Llamas (@I3Llamas)

Standable FBE v1.0 launch is TOMMOROW!

Don’t miss the launch premiere where I’ll explain where this project is and where it is going!

This is not FBT | Standable FBE v1.0 Launch
https://t.co/yr5VLBvFw1

Likes

205

Twitter · May 7, 2023, 7:18 PM

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/iVRy_VR/status/1655554037650006017

iVRy (@iVRy_VR)

I'm walking away from this project for the time being. Between spiralling costs, a never ending set of obstacles put forward by the PSVR2, unrealistic hype in blogs, abusive commenters and accusations of fraud, it has ceased to be fun. I'll be back. Some time.

Twitter · May 8, 2023, 12:43 PM

[grizzled field]

why is it you have to have two different softwares for Logitech G peripherals (which uses Logitech G Hub), and regular Logitech peripherals? (Which uses Logi options+) So for my Logitech G headphones I have to use G hub, and for my Logitech mouse, I have to use Logi Options+, and now I have 2 MORE things running in the background taking up resources. Why cant there just be one???

[zinc knoll]

go ask the logitech marketing team

[grizzled field]

from reading a few Reddit posts, it sounds like they aren't that helpful, and will just say "We're working on that" or "We'll take that into consideration"

[zinc knoll]

lmao i wasnt being really serious lol, just saying, the engineers definitely didnt come up with that idea, they were just tasked to implement it

very rarely are truly idiotic ideas actually engineering's idea, mostly marketing and people who dont know how to make the product are the idiocy inventors who just tell engineering to do it.

[grizzled field]

yeah poor engineers, almost makes me question Electrical engineering as my future career choice :/

[zinc knoll]

there are still quite a few engineering degrees that have freedom from idiots, electrical engineering seems like it'd be quite close to one of them

[grizzled field]

yeah hopefully

[wraith vessel]

Anyone had any major issues in regards to steamVR on the quest 2? I've had many instances where the screen will go black for a second and I've had some pretty serious tracking issues. PC wise it's a 5600x and a 3080 so I doubt it's that and no I'm not using the fibre optic first party link cable

[weak bluff]

i do sometimes but not as frequent

and black screen only in miliseconds

probably connection or driver issue im on AMD

[warm stirrup]

I've seen a lot of issues with quest 2 in steam vr, apparently using oculus software to run the steam beat saber works better

[neat yacht]

hey guys I'm using quest 2 with 7900 XTX Oculus link Through USB cable and noticed weird tearing like issue, I was able to record it when casting from the headset.

can someone tell me what is this tearing like issue called ?

I originally had an RTX 3080 and didn't encounter any issues at all, so this looks a bit sad.

[zinc knoll]

have you updated your gpu drivers?

[neat yacht]

I'm on latest

[zinc knoll]

are you able to roll back to the one before latest?

bc thats the easiest issue id think of

7900xtx has VR issues especially performance wise.

[warm stirrup]

This is accoring to Pimax

[neat yacht]

I already tried the previous driver and had same issues.

also I know about performance issues in VR but I double checked before buying that It's only some performance issues and only in some specific games only, not like my cases EVERY VR app

do you know at least the term that I can use to search more about these tearing like issue ? because I never encountered it before and I don't know what to search for honestly.

[zinc knoll]

odyssey plus lmao

[warm stirrup]

ikr XD

[weak bluff]

Its a driver issue i bet

Similar issue happens on RX 6000 cards and those can be solved by rolling back to driver 22.5.1 but RX7900XTX? That thing driver especially for VR is very unhinged and you probably have to wait months to fix

If reinstalling driver and software does not work then too bad you probably have to stuck until driver fix come out which there has been vr issues since launch and AMD still have not fixed it despite acknowledging since launch

[neat yacht]

You do know that it has been more than 6 months since release already xD and I have yet to see someone with same VR issue like mine

[weak bluff]

YES

Have you looked at every. Single. Release. Log. They still say known issue "some vr games run lower than expected"

OMG

Its been MONTHS

[neat yacht]

Yeah Performance related issues is what I expected but not Unplayable tearing issues that only affects me

Here this reviewer didn't encounter any of my issues, idk why https://youtu.be/FSqYkuKjXwA same headset + same gpu

[weak bluff]

Its unique to RX 7000 cards

You get random problems

Having 7000 now is like buying lottery

Some people got sticky issue some dont some decided to return just because of like that slow driver fix

[neat yacht]

Man I thought 6 Months would be a good time (thought most major issues got fixed) but turns out I was wrong, AMD still being AMD I guess, I hope Linus sanity is still intact I heard he is daily driving 7900 XTX

[weak bluff]

Try launching steamvr too

Sometimes launching steamvr completely removed wobbly issue on my 6600 XT

Weird but it for some reason works

[zinc knoll]

also try a game with openXR like minecraft bedrock

[neat yacht]

will give it a try and let you know

[neat yacht]

tried with SteamVR issues still persists and even after opening other games and apps like Pistol Whip/Google Maps VR ...etc

[weak bluff]

I cannot confirm why

Based on look there can be 2 theory

1 is driver is causing issue

[zinc knoll]

probably something to do with the timings between the MCDs on the gpu

[weak bluff]

2 is connection or encoder is missing frame or starved bandwidth so it had to warp as a prediction before next frame comes

Yes and it warp like that is because next frame got timed out

Resulting stretched visuals until next frame is received

[zinc knoll]

also try a different port for your link cable

[weak bluff]

You better luck try get more reliable connection

But driver issues also caused similar issue so i dont want to eliminate that

[neat yacht]

I think it maybe #2 because this is not visible on the app/game running on PC, it only happens on the VR headset

I have a USB cable the kiwi one and since I'm using Quest 2, It might be encoder related ?

[zinc knoll]

i think it has to do with how the drivers address the MCDs and use bandwidth and how the timings link up etc.

[weak bluff]

You did set bitrate to auto right?

[neat yacht]

yes

[weak bluff]

Welp im out of reach on what to do ur on your own now

[zinc knoll]

can you underclock the VRAM? sounds stupid but may work, plus it doesnt take too much effort

[neat yacht]

hmm sure, yeah I think I'm using the fast timming on 2700 MHz so I will return VRAM to stock with default timings and try.

[grizzled field]

do you have multiple monitors plugged in? I've heard of that causing problems

otherwise you could try explaining your issue to Bing AI XD

[zinc knoll]

i have access to Bard

[grizzled field]

so do I, bard sucks, bing is, and I never thought I'd say this, just better

[zinc knoll]

i made bard say a deez nuts joke

[grizzled field]

XD why?

[zinc knoll]

idk

i also made bard call me mom and dad

[neat yacht]

yeah I have 2 monitors, but I'm using the usb cable for my quest 2, should I only connect 1 monitor ?

[zinc knoll]

one monitor

[neat yacht]

VRAM stock/timing to stock and underclock didn't help, trying the one monitor solution

[zinc knoll]

oke doke

[grizzled field]

yeah try one monitor

[grizzled field]

ok but have you ever tried asking bard about tech help? He was running in circles giving miss information and suggesting the dumbest things ever, Bing has just been more helpful

[zinc knoll]

Bard suggested a PC witha 4090ti in it once for me

[grizzled field]

I was asking bard about what GPU I should get and what eGPU enclosure for it, and bard suggested a $500 enclosure that wasn't even compatible with the GPU it suggested

[neat yacht]

Rip, same problem exists even with only 1 monitor and stock settings (DDUed the driver) and re-installed

[zinc knoll]

what USB port you using for the Q2

[neat yacht]

USB 3.1 Gen 2 port on my TUF B450M-PLUS GAMING mobo

this one : https://i.imgur.com/taMLSWA.png

[zinc knoll]

try the other usb 3 ports

[grizzled field]

did trying the other USB port work?

[neat yacht]

just finished trying, same issue sadly

[grizzled field]

OOF

[neat yacht]

I'm just afraid that I got somehow a bad GPU because no one said anything specifically about this exact issue

[grizzled field]

well, do you only have one headset? Or could you try plugging in a different headset and seeing if you have the same issue, because it could be the headset and not the GPU

or the cord you're using

[zinc knoll]

also do you have a different USB cable?

otherwise RMA the card and try a new card

[lime pewter]

Inaccurate tho
should be an ungrateful brat calling you names

[jagged drum]

rift cv1 > quest 2 change my mind

[rustic garnet]

Why would i change your mind you're completely right

[lime pewter]

anything > meta

[weak bluff]

you can buy Quest 2 business edition without all of those tracking but it will cost you https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/oculus_quest_2_business_puts_a_price_on_privacy_and_it_s_steep/1

[haughty thistle]

Not to mention that the business edition can't access the meta store. Sideloading only

[zinc knoll]

In everything other than text readability it's better.

[jagged drum]

idm the cv1 resolution tbh

[lime pewter]

Discontinued for a while now tho

[weak bluff]

Quest 2 surprisingly lack custom ROMs or hacks

Its that 1 console that people dont care hacking?

[gilded sapphire]

No

They removed that

https://work.meta.com

[weak bluff]

Its gon

[gilded sapphire]

Because meta will pay you 100K for that

Check their hackerone

[weak bluff]

Holy why the same does not work with PS4

[gilded sapphire]

VR is a nechie

PS4 isn’t

[weak bluff]

That's what i originally though

I can only wish Quest 1 get same treatment as Go but very unlikely

[zinc knoll]

its not really the resolution as much as the sharpness

[weak bluff]

OLED iirc have worse screendoor effect than LCD

Looking in pentile OLED is like colour changing fabric

[neat yacht]

Is this normal for the 7900 XTX ?

https://i.imgur.com/OA2NV6K.png

Literally can't sustain 50fps in Beat Saber menu ?

[haughty thistle]

OEM locked bootloader on Android is really difficult to crack. Keep in mind that the security on those devices is on a silicon level, and breaking that would essentially require an exploit in the Qualcomm boot-chain and thus a critical security exploit in basically all modern Qualcomm Smartphones.
It's not that people are making an effort to crack it, it's just that it's really well secured...

[weak bluff]

That same security is not on phones?

Also does that mean Nintendo security really suck?

[zinc knoll]

no its that nintendo uses different chips

[zinc knoll]

idk

[zinc knoll]

which are getting into the double digits old

[weak bluff]

So facebook invest Xbox level security yet it cannot make games like Microsoft :/

[zinc knoll]

no its not that they invested in the security, its that the chip that they bought is smartphone hardware, so its just secure by default bc it needs to be

[weak bluff]

That does not explain why phones can be sideloaded and can change stock rom so easily

Rather smartphone hardware more like that smartphone performance console security?

XR2 is like Snapdragon 855 without telcom features

[zinc knoll]

its more like taking full use of the full silicon level lockdown features on the XR2

[haughty thistle]

It is. Except that on phones there's usually a toggle in the system settings or some other easy way of unlocking the bootloader. Neither is available on Quest

[weak bluff]

So locking down phone is a simple as just locking bootloader?

[zinc knoll]

yep

[haughty thistle]

With Nintendo it was an oversight in the early hardware design where a pin of the SOC that put it into recovery mode was exposed to the outside hardware. This however won't help with Qualcomm as their recovery mode only allows for low-level flashing of signed firmware images. Had to use their crappy software once to revive my OnePlus once (oops ^^")

[weak bluff]

Ive seen Samsung and Huawei made it hard to install custom rom if they try hard why are they not locking its just harder

[haughty thistle]

It is locked by default, but like I said, a simple toggle unlocks it

[haughty thistle]

Samsung doesn't use the normal Android Bootloader stack and thus their firmware flashoing process is different, but they still use the same unlock method.
Technically Huawai also uses a similar bootloader locking system, but in their case, instead of it being secured by a toggle in the user-mode settings it's secured by a device-specific password, and that password they won't tell you. They used to have a website to generate the password for your device, but they took down that website, and since it relied on an API, not even the wayback machine could save it...

I belive the way that Meta did it is very similar to the way Huawai is doing it (aka locking the bootloader using a device specific password).
From what I've read a while back, for certain older Huawei devices there is a way to circumvent the bootloader lock, but it's essentially just forcing the SOC into recovery mode, and since it's Huawei's HiSilicon chips, they just accept any image to flash on the SOC (so you better use the correct image)...

[weak bluff]

Great today i learned something new

[grizzled field]

sharpness? I'm not sure it can be called that, the Rift cv1 has dullness

[zinc knoll]

lmao

[grizzled field]

that was the one thing I liked better about the Rift S, was it was actually sharp enough to be really enjoyable, not that the cv1 wasn't enjoyable, it just took me like 10 mins just to get used to how blurry everything was

[jagged drum]

a little bit, yes, if you try to notice it. in normal playing it doesn't bother me.

[zinc knoll]

That's why I want a rift s bc it has similar visuals as the Quest 2 but lower resolution for a 3rd of the price used

[grizzled field]

yeah but its kinda crap

idk, if you can get it cheap its worth it

[zinc knoll]

For 150 that don't matter if I treat it good

[grizzled field]

yeah for 150 its worth it even if it breaks in 2 months

[zinc knoll]

I'll hopefully only need it for 3 or less

Then it gets delegated to loner headset for freinds

[grizzled field]

yeah what sucks for me is my brother-in-law is getting rid of his Rift cv1 and I cant get it because I don't have a gpu that will work

[zinc knoll]

Can you get an external gpu

Or a new gpu

[grizzled field]

yeah I'm planning on getting an eGPU but I've got $200 in my bank account and that wont pay for the enclosure let alone the GPU itself

[zinc knoll]

You can get 1060 6gb on ebay for cheap

[grizzled field]

yeah but the enclosure

that alone is $200

[weak bluff]

Try cheapest PCI-E to thunderbolt adapter ADT-Link R43SG-TB3 and pair it with like RX 580

the enclosure should be total $150ish plus used RX 580 for $80

or because you are on laptop maybe down to RX 570

8GB VRAM ofc

[grizzled field]

hmm, that's not a bad idea, and I'm guessing if I asked, my brother-in-law would give me the headset free

[weak bluff]

you should check local availability first its not everywhere

You will need:

• ADT-Link R43SG-TB3 adapter
• Thunderbolt to Thunderbolt cable
• Your laptop with thunderbolt support
• Power supply (don't need much like mere 230W is enough)
  make sure adapter comes with all required cables

if lucky your house might already have a 12V AC-to-DC power adapter that can go 200W

[grizzled field]

My laptop does have Thunderbolt 3

[grizzled field]

XD I doubt it

[weak bluff]

make sure it uses standard power plug

nvm i take that back it does not support taht kind of power delivery

only power supply

[grizzled field]

I think I'll stick with my plan of getting a used quest 2 and just playing standalone until I can afford building a PC

[weak bluff]

but eh OEM 230W PSU is cheap and they should be rated well

sure that is a better idea 100%

[grizzled field]

see I cant tell if that is sarcasm or not

it sounds sarcastic, but idk maybe ur serious

[grizzled field]

I'm dying over here were you sarcastic or not???

[slate ore]

I have been creating a top 10 list of VR art galleries in VR chat, including my own. I'm getting a bit burnt out, though; I've visited over 300 at this point. I need you help, here's the current list. I'd love to see people's input other than my own. This list is curated so anything too buggy or just a meme won't be looked at. That being said, the purpose is to find the top 10 and I've already visited many, so some may not be on there because they don't stand out and nobody has stood up for their work. So here is a tentative spreadsheet and a survey if you want to rate the ones that are there. I am not sure how long I'll do this for, but if it's going nowhere in a couple of weeks I'll take the survey down update the list and publish it. Much love and have fun world hoping.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F_DzQOeq3bjE9U2llhD53PAd9wOi0VEaGobfZauRUBA/edit?usp=drivesdk

https://forms.gle/NiCUic4EcSLjhaT79

[weak bluff]

build pc is always better than rednecking laptop but ive seen peopel insisting egpu before lol

[grizzled field]

ok thx XD

[slate ore]

sorry for the large paragraph when you were chatting =[

[grizzled field]

I thought just using standalone for a while was smarter

[grizzled field]

naww ur fine, idc

I'd absolutely help, but I don't have a headset yet, and I dont feel like playing on PC would give me the same understanding for how great the art is,

this is not related to VR like at all, but I just ordered the Data Frog SF2000 anyone here tried it?

its a Retro handheld game console that has become really popular recently because it's $25 and actually good, I wonder if Linus or Short Circuit will do a review

[sudden pasture]

So my first proper vr was a quest 1. Then I started using questing as I upgraded my pc over time. Now my pc is good enough to use a "proper" pcvr headset. But whenever i search for something mid range I'm either presented with multi thousand dollar headsets or standalones like quest 2 and pico 4.

Even when I specify using quotation marks on PCVR or PC VR, etc

And any ranking that has "cheap" in the title is all standalone, some of the rankings of pcvr include the original psvr

I don't know what I'm meant to do at this point honestly. Whether I continue with my, frankly old and unstable, quest 1, or try and look for pcvr on ebay and other resellers

Hell even amazon UK doesn't seem to know the difference any more

[haughty thistle]

Thank Meta for making the mid-range not financially viable

The only true mid-range headset is the HP Reverb G2, but it sold so poorly that HP doesn't consider making a successor to that HMD

[sudden pasture]

I'd rather die than thank them for anything.

[lime pewter]

just congratulate them on being basically the worst stalker in existence

[zinc knoll]

HP Reverb G2 is said to be a budget Varjo aero, so if you want great visuals, reverb G2 would be the way to go, although i have heard that the G2 has controller tracking issues, and its a windows mixed reality headset...

[burnt oasis]

and its fresnel

and lcd

[zinc knoll]

well no duh, anything that isnt PSVR 2 or a down payment on a used car is LCD. most headsets use fresnel anyways.

[burnt oasis]

except pico 4 but shit quality control

[zinc knoll]

subjectively i'd never buy a pico 4

[little plinth]

its fine, using one for pcvr rn

my only complaint is the lack of games on standalone

[zinc knoll]

how much did it cost?

[little plinth]

Like 350 new

Basically the cheapest available option

[zinc knoll]

*New

[zinc knoll]

nice

[little plinth]

It is new new

[zinc knoll]

looks like resolution is decent

[grizzled field]

personally I'd support Meta before Bytedance, Tik Tok can jump in a hole and die

[zinc knoll]

very much

at least meta is american

[grizzled field]

yeah, I'm glad someone actually understands, I was assuming ppl would be saying meta was worse, but Tik Tok is just as bad and its a chinese company, also the effect Tik Tok has had on our society is far worse than facebook's ever done,

[zinc knoll]

Very true

[grizzled field]

thanks lol,

[dull tide]

Swap the demographics around. Boomers get TikTok and zoomers get Facebook

I’m tempted to get a $300 G2 but it always seems like the best and worse time to get one

[grizzled field]

if your graphics can handle it, I'd say absolutely get the G2, I've researched it very in-depth and I think its incredible. In a perfect world if I could have one headset, it would be that one

[dull tide]

I use a Q2 with virtual desktop but the compression I get from it is a bit of a pain. I originally got it for action games but now I do more sim and exploring and GMOD liminal spaces

Yeah I’ll just grab it next $300 sale.

[grizzled field]

do that, =) I think that's the best thing you could do

[dull tide]

GMOD VR has physical hands and that one cinematic house.

https://youtu.be/Y1PyPWSz9DY

https://youtu.be/Pgnbh50YnYA

[burnt oasis]

hmd wise i would definitely say its superior over the index, but tracking and it not being steamvr native is eh

[dull tide]

Remember when Bonelab was being described as the GMOD of VR?

[burnt oasis]

$300 tho holy i might just have to

better audio more fov and way more clarity over the quest 2

but also i still hate fresnel with a passion

[grizzled field]

idc at that price its incredible, I think HP did a rlly good job, and I'd even go as far is to say it is the best

[dull tide]

Biggest pain I have with Quest is that link doesn’t always work for me and when the HMD goes to sleep when I need to pup it off to adjust settings

[burnt oasis]

overall definitely not, i would go q2 over g2 still just because of the controllers and tracking

though i heard they got better

[dull tide]

That promise of the Q2 cord free life though

[burnt oasis]

but do they have sensors to track your fingers like the q2 or index

[burnt oasis]

idrc about it ngl i dont have the playspace for it yet

plus q2 is not a headset i care to go wireless for as its too heavy

something like a beyond though

[dull tide]

The nice thing about Q2 is using it in a different room

[burnt oasis]

definitely would like a wireless solution since its so lightweight and i can lay down with it and whatnot

[grizzled field]

the HP Reverb G2 is the greatest headset to ever exist, no one can change my mind

idc what you say

[burnt oasis]

varjo aero literally beats in everyway except price

i would really say bigscreen beyond is the best headset in its class, beyond that its straight to $2200 varjo

[grizzled field]

"except price" 😛

[burnt oasis]

its like pimax class price wise but a bit cheaper

[grizzled field]

what price is the bigscreen beyond?

[burnt oasis]

999

steamvr native

[grizzled field]

XD like I said the G2 is the best headset

[burnt oasis]

nah fresnel is ass

[grizzled field]

for the majority of ppl price is king

[burnt oasis]

for me anything except fresnel is king

[grizzled field]

or quality-price ratio is king

[burnt oasis]

also oled or whatever the quest pro has

[grizzled field]

what does the Q2 use?

[burnt oasis]

cuz the lcd is so dull on the q2 i notice it compared to my monitor

[burnt oasis]

LCD but the quest pro uses a much better looking lcd, looks almost like mini LED its much more contrast and whatnot

almost like oled but still a far ways from oled

i want the bigscreen mostly because it has zero light bleed and weighs less than my iphone

weighs as much as a quest 2 controller literally

3x lighter than quest 2? and about 2x smaller lol

[grizzled field]

hmm I don't know, but nothing you've said so far has done nothing to sway my opinion of the Reverb being the best headset, although the bigscreen does look rlly nice

[burnt oasis]

not only looks though

[grizzled field]

but thats a steep price

[burnt oasis]

comfort is definitely underrated

[burnt oasis]

itll get cheaper overtime

[grizzled field]

I don't care about comfort that much, I just want to enjoy it

[burnt oasis]

in like 4 years the quest 2 will be sub 200 bucks and the g2 as well, bigscreen will probbaly be a 500 dollar headset atp

[burnt oasis]

cant enjoy it when my forehead has blood pooling in it cuasing headaches

or when i have to adjust every couple of seconds or minutes to get the full calrity

its why i never want to main drive a fresnel headset again

[grizzled field]

yeah it probably will, but last I checked valve hasn't dropped the price of the Index

[burnt oasis]

cuz nothing else competes with it

well now the quest pro does

so the valve is much cheaper used now

like 600-700

vr is still kinda slow currently

its not like pc gaming where new stuff is coming out every year yet and new games too

and there isnt much good variety yet either

[grizzled field]

yeah I don't know I've never touched the Index to know how good it is, and yeah, I don't get why so few ppl are into VR

[burnt oasis]

at a reasonable price

[burnt oasis]

i would say a large part of it is quality and price

the software can be jank

you usually have to stand up when playing

[grizzled field]

I'd say its all the google cardboards fault

[burnt oasis]

and standalone headsets have 2005 graphics

we havent met a good enough standard of overall quality for most people to want it

but definitely if vr becomes viable value wise for work then more people will invest in it

[grizzled field]

Which I personally don't get I love to troubleshoot

[burnt oasis]

like the emulating multiple monitors there for cheaper and better clarity and your mouse being able to move across those screens as if it were real

while it being as light and comfy as a beyond with larger fov and more clarity

while still being cheaper than lets say $600

i beleive once we get crazy specs for value like that

then vr will start to take over somewhat

[burnt oasis]

most people dont like to trouble shoot they just want it to simply work no issues at all

most people dont even know how to troubleshoot

and also troubleshooting in vr is the biggest pain in the ass out of all of them

[grizzled field]

but I'd think VR would be more popular among gamers, who are already spending anywhere between $500-$5000 on PC's, I'd think they'd want a more immersive experience

[burnt oasis]

to them it still doesnt provide that immersive experience at a reasonable price point

most gamers do not spend over 1k on a pc

[grizzled field]

ahh heck no you ever tried troubleshooting a Mac? that is by far the suckiest experience

[grizzled field]

also troubleshooting is easy, its called googling the problem, AKA what tech support does

[burnt oasis]

i meant as in having to take things off your body and putting them back on, you dont have to take a macbook off your head or restrap its kayboard to your hands

[burnt oasis]

well vr doesnt have that much of it

and people are mad lazy

with vr there is a lto more friction anyways

trackers, headset, controllers, haptics, vr shoes/treadmill

and thats only the hardware side of things

[grizzled field]

yeah I suppose, I still enjoy that kind of thing

[burnt oasis]

compared to a pc which is just your kbm and monitors

and i guess your inside components

[burnt oasis]

honestly i dont really enjoy it

its fine

but i dont like having to restart a game im already in

or having to recalibrate

takes away from the immersion

its like getting a self driving car but you have to monitor it 24/7

[grizzled field]

my idea of a fun afternoon was building a PC and getting a Rift cv1 working on it with my brother-in-law,

[burnt oasis]

takes away from the enjoyment of it

[burnt oasis]

building pcs are fun yea but not software troubleshooting

ironic coming from a programmer

i dont mind troubleshooting certain thigns

[grizzled field]

Im pretty sure it adds to the enjoyment, you know how much more satisfaction you'll have if you spend 4 hours and finally get it working compared to it working right away?

[burnt oasis]

nah i just feel like my 4 hours i couldve spent playing vr and enjoying it were wasted

it taking me forever to fix a simple issue makes me feel incompetent

[grizzled field]

naw the VR is more fun because of the work you had to do to be able to play it

[zinc knoll]

Quite true tbh

[haughty thistle]

What I find funny still is that some peeps call the Pico 4 "a better Reverb G2", which in my experience it is not. It has worse audio and comfort, the screens on the Pico 4 are of much lower quality (worse colors, contrast, pixel fill, mura), and the lenses have quite a big issue with uniformity, as-in, the whole image looks kinda wavey.
Yes, the G2 isn't without it's issues either (lack of touch sensitivity on the buttons & CA towards the outer parts of the FOV), but I still find the G2 a much better PCVR experience then the Pico 4, unless you think wireless is an absolute must-have (in which case, just use VD please; the Pico software is like driving a car with the handbreak on)

[lime pewter]

how much power does a VR setup (excluding the hardware running it) actually use 🤔

[burnt oasis]

not much, as much as an android?

[lime pewter]

Headset, controllers, trackers, etc

[burnt oasis]

it's like asking how much power does your monitor use to run games excluding the 450w gpu in your system

[lime pewter]

Expect like 50-80w peak

[burnt oasis]

less than 70w

[lime pewter]

My TV here drawing up to 350w while my pc uses 170-320

Lel

[burnt oasis]

why

[lime pewter]

2000 peak brightness 65inch

[burnt oasis]

shouldn't be 350w

[lime pewter]

Is the “at the wall measured” power draw for the TV

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Tho its less in more typical scenes

Basically just talking about light mode discord power draw

Not that I use light mode

[little plinth]

pico 4's battery being on the back really helps with weight balancing
but can't lay down

[cloud siren]

current standalone headset designs are so dumb

why not make a super light and small headset with just the cameras and optics and offload the battery and motherboard to a thing you carry in your pocket

and maybe some way to connect the headset and processing/power thing for storage

[zinc knoll]

umm because a thing in your pocket is distracting, and not everybody wants a thing in their pocket

[cloud siren]

how is it distracting

most people carry phones in their pockets

and they arent distracting

and its just dumb to weigh the headset down

[zinc knoll]

do you have a VR headset?

[cloud siren]

had a WMR thing but its gone now

[zinc knoll]

did you ever play for hours with your phone in your pocket?

[grizzled field]

just duck-tape a PC to your back, and plug in a wired headset, BOOM all-in-one XD

also can I just say I hate USB-Micro-B? it is the worst type of USB to ever exist, my Xbox one controller has to plug in to PC with a micro B cable, and I have to electrical tape it down just to keep the controller on, and my headphones plug in using Micro B and I'm getting static in my music and its just annoying how so many things haven't switched to type-C,

[zinc knoll]

fucking hate it, especially since most of the cables are just shit anyways, so when you wanna use an Xbox controller on your PC it like every 10 seconds it disconnects

[grizzled field]

yeah thats why I had to electrical tape it down just to stay connected

[zinc knoll]

i do that, and it doesnt even connect

[grizzled field]

oh yeah I had to try 5 micro B cables before I could find one from Samsung that actually works, if you cable isn't working just buy a wireless adapter for an Xbox one controller off Amazon or try like 10 cables to see if they work XD

[zinc knoll]

not going to that much effort tbh

[grizzled field]

yeah just buy a wireless adapter if you want a controller XD

[little plinth]

They're certainly right that pico 4 is comfy. Been using it for hours and only my arms and eyes are tired, mostly because i use 72 fps as my PC CPU is kinda shit.

But 72 is good enough that i don't get all wanting to vomit

[weak bluff]

Bigscreen Beyond is getting FOV boost

[haughty thistle]

If that's actually true, that'd be amazing!

Although, bigger FOV = lower PPD at the same screen resolution

[zinc knoll]

Would just push ppd down to what the G2 has tbh.

[cloud siren]

is it me or does the beyond look cheap

[weak bluff]

Cmon its small and all review unit are not final and still have production residue

[cloud siren]

im assuming the renders on their site show the final design theyre working on

[lime pewter]

When will we see 180 degrees

[cloud siren]

also wait technically this is a headset only for iPhone users lol

[lime pewter]

I used to use android until holepunch, then went iphone, now I’ll just stay with iphone for the wallet app

[weak bluff]

What makes you think its cheap is it material? The strap?

[lime pewter]

Smaller = cheaper ~someone

[cloud siren]

the mounting mechanism

this looks so bad

plus the glossy front with sharp edges

[weak bluff]

I thought glossy is better than rigid black ok your taste

Yeah strap could look fancier

[cloud siren]

it gets smudgy and shows scratches easily

[weak bluff]

Isnt that like a premium phone

Glass back suck at that

But "glasstic" is not

[cloud siren]

imo the best designed vr headset was the daydream view 2nd gen but that was just a phone holder with lenses

[lime pewter]

Much heavier tho

[cloud siren]

yeah i mean this but small would be great

[weak bluff]

I dont get it it looks more cartoonish

[cloud siren]

also why do all headsets have to be white or black

[lime pewter]

He wants something to pair with his airpods max red

[weak bluff]

Plus there is USB C forcing the attaching area to be small

[cloud siren]

i wish when apple does their headsets the straps are like apple watch bands so you can get different colours and materials

[cloud siren]

if id be to buy the maxes it would be blue or green

the red is kinda pink

[weak bluff]

Thats like default for phones too also its not an outdoor device

Altho yes more colour would be nice

[cloud siren]

wait also what if you took the earcup and made it less wide but stretched it out

would look great tbh

like

as a headset

[weak bluff]

I cant even wear my headphones on quest 2 cuz strap blocks my ear

[cloud siren]

tho it would be heavy

bc stainless steel and aluminium

[weak bluff]

i rather have fake premium looking plastic than good looking but metal

[lime pewter]

I mean, could always use an audeze, which is 600+ gram instead of about 380 gram for airpods max

[lime pewter]

Magnesium headset

[weak bluff]

Never beats plastic

No matter what metal

[cloud siren]

huh

[lime pewter]

LCD-X weight:

[lime pewter]

magnesium is what the finalmouse and razer uses for lowering weight further

[weak bluff]

Its only ligher because you dont need as thick to make to strong

In same scale plastic still beats it

[lime pewter]

plastic needs more to be as sturdy, so...

[weak bluff]

And bigscreen is not a laptop or periferal it does not need strength

Maybe if you want something thinner than bigscreen but even then the reduction is minor at higher cost

[lime pewter]

does feel a lot cheaper when plastic

¯_(ツ)_/¯

especially glossy plastic

[weak bluff]

If magnesium is so good laptops would switch it alread

But no you can only find it like fancy Surface Book

[lime pewter]

for price not worth it for 99%

the mice using it need to 2-3x in price because harder to work with

tho wouldn't add as much if used normally

[weak bluff]

Im not going fancy for something no one will see

[lime pewter]

its about feel

[weak bluff]

Wow its like vr headset is mouse and laptop when i feel it everyday

[lime pewter]

keyboard people here spending hundreds to thousands extra on custom but only they will use and see it and still just touch plastic caps slapped on a generic rectangle

[weak bluff]

You dont need it. Period.

For vr headset.

[cloud siren]

imagine a dieter rams designed headset

[lime pewter]

unless you don't want plastic on an expensive device

¯_(ツ)_/¯

could say "you don't need it" to many things anyway

don't need a house, just get a tent
don't need a bed or shower, just lay on the floor and find a clean river somewhere, lel (or just a bucket with water)

[weak bluff]

You dont compare with a house. You cannot live a house its a necessary you cant live without good sleep. Those are huamn right essentials.

Magnesium in vr headset is a privilege its an extra fancy thing.

[lime pewter]

you want it*

literally speaking, you barely need anything to stay alive

[weak bluff]

And because its an indoor device that you dont feel its a premium for luxury not comfort not quality

You want it not because of quality its because its fancy

Its different

[lime pewter]

nothing fancy about it

[weak bluff]

Its fancy because you pay extra for same quality or little difference

Its fancy

Its same as putting gold on steak

[lime pewter]

tfw gold is wayyyyy more costly

saying plastic is standard quality is kinda ehh honestly

[weak bluff]

Its not but VR does not matter

It can matter elsewhere but it does not matter in vr

[lime pewter]

plastic is plastic, and its still a terrible product humanity made

[lime pewter]

especially for the product in question, could probably change the material to light metals for like 100 extra considering its size and complexity, but ehh
not worth it for companies to do it as most don't care about plastic being trash

[weak bluff]

You use magnesium to keep same weight at thinner form

But headset is already thin enough

Plastic trash is a problem for single use* plastic not plastic used like this

Thats why people dont complain when plane seat ismade of plastic

[lime pewter]

alternative: you use magnesium to keep same weight while not using plastic because plastic feels cheaper, is terrible for the planet and isn't that much cheaper when used in products costing as much as this

[weak bluff]

Yes that is when the premium comes

No quality improvement just looks

You can ask Apple for that

[lime pewter]

looks and feel, and material quality from garbage to "what should've been standard for products in this price tier"
doesn't cost much more anyway

but this isn't gonna go anyway

[zinc knoll]

so what are we arguing about here? magnesium?

[lime pewter]

plastic = "good quality" according to you
and "should be kept as the standard"

[weak bluff]

Its not a phone or mouse in VR the equivalent is wear and comfort

[zinc knoll]

how is plastic better than metal again?

or any other material

[weak bluff]

Plastic and magnesium have its pros and cons

And depends on what you use for one may matter more than ktber

[lime pewter]

plastic's pros are just cheap to produce and easy to work with

[zinc knoll]

magnesium means things can be lighter with little to no strength reduction

[weak bluff]

Like laptop can keep your device thin at same weight and strength

[zinc knoll]

very true, durability is pretty much garbage, aesthetics dont last bc its not scratch resistant. etc.

[lime pewter]

magnesium seems to be pretty cheap honestly, mostly just seems hard to work with for more complex shapes

[zinc knoll]

which you need for a VR headset bc you want it to be able to be lighter with the same strength, VR headsets require much more comfort and much less weight i dont get what your arguement is here even if it is valid.

[weak bluff]

Why when plastic did just fine Beyond is already thin enough it does not matter if you thin it more

[zinc knoll]

Magnesium just likes to corrode, so you need specific magnesium alloys to make it last especially when in contact with humans and the shit we are covered in.

[lime pewter]

I'll just say "plastic use should just be reduced as much as possible"

[zinc knoll]

depends but i mostly agree

[weak bluff]

Only for non reusable plstic

[lime pewter]

no plastic is 100% reusable .-.

[zinc knoll]

Plastic is much easier to manufacture, and so it can be used to make complex shapes at large scale.

[weak bluff]

No shoot sherlock liek anything you telling me we go back to metal bucket instead of plastic bucket

[lime pewter]

there are some things I would use it for, but then I am mostly thinking about products you don't want to break down, lel

compared to devices that go obsolete after 3-5 years

[zinc knoll]

yea, also just low grade plastic that turns back into oil in 5 years anyways should just be eradicated anyways.

[weak bluff]

That is not true

[zinc knoll]

im not saying the plastic actually turns back into oil

it just becomes a slimy shitfest and is just garbage

it wants to turn back into oil but is doing a half ass job

[weak bluff]

Why you think plastic has that problem

In 5 years

[lime pewter]

plastic lightswitches for example are fine, they are in use for like 50+ years anyway

[zinc knoll]

because some grades of plastic are complete garbage, not all plastic is the same bud

[weak bluff]

And your specific plastic does notjot apply here

You picked worst possible plastic ofc its bad

[zinc knoll]

those are also composite reinforced i believe so they arent all plastic anyways.

[weak bluff]

You are complaining an issue THAT VR had ZERO issue in the past decade

[zinc knoll]

i thought we were talking about getting rid of plastic but you seemed to be talking of something else

[weak bluff]

Oh dear the it is you who go off topic of the channel

[zinc knoll]

why did you start ranting about how bad metal is anyways?

im not totally sure i understand

[weak bluff]

Its not bad its just novelty

I did not say its bad

It matters less in headsets

[lime pewter]

not so much about metal being bad as much as "it is a luxury and should stay that way, plastic is fine"

[zinc knoll]

im not sure you realize words mean things

[weak bluff]

Its a luxury and it is and i even suggested if you want the seller should be Apple

Not Bigscreen

[zinc knoll]

it is luxury true

[weak bluff]

Context matters its about weight

[zinc knoll]

metal is usually lighter for the same strength, and is much less prone to cracking

[lime pewter]

titanium headset when

[weak bluff]

Thats why Magnesium is so great for laptops

But less great for VR

[zinc knoll]

oohoahoah yay 100000 dollar headset

[lime pewter]

5kg headset or smth

[zinc knoll]

fiberglass composite would be better anyways

its RF permiable, its stronk, and its cheap

and its light

[weak bluff]

The added value is just not as much if you put magnesium for headset like beyond so the only thing it adds is luxury

Its just

Not enought

[zinc knoll]

structural metal is best, im not talking about fancy metal

[lime pewter]

10% price increase be like

[zinc knoll]

thats from 900 to 1000 dollars for better repairability and more durability

[weak bluff]

Which plastic can do the same by being thicker but Beyond is already thin enougn

Thats why it matters less

[zinc knoll]

plastic shatters and cracks

its how it works

[weak bluff]

Again it matters mess in a headset

It matters more elsewhere

And for added bonus

Shatter and crack is worse the bigger it is

The headsetis small so again it matters less

Its just good alreadyin quality

Unless you purposely twist it ofc

[zinc knoll]

weight matters more, so if you can save a few grams in plastic while having better durability and a more premium feel for only 100 extra dollars, especially in something like the beyond which is meant to save as much weight as possible i could see metal or a fiberglass composite being a great choice

[weak bluff]

Except magnesium will make it heaver not lighter because the plastic is already very thin

Besides

[zinc knoll]

hmmmmmm idk

[weak bluff]

Product sells better at 3 digit than 4 digit

[zinc knoll]

999 vs 1000

[weak bluff]

Adding price tag that make it 4 figure will hurt appeal

[weak bluff]

Exactly whats why its 999

[zinc knoll]

mhm not like the index isnt 4 digits already

the index is the main competition

[lime pewter]

does that even matter?, its a niche product still anyway
so wouldn't that "price trick" just not matter?

[zinc knoll]

price trick doesnt matter, if its a good product, thats how you get people to buy it in the VR market, if all markets were like the VR market, the world economy and technology innovation would be so much better

good product for a reasonable price

[lime pewter]

audiophile products just being 1600 instead of 1599

[zinc knoll]

pretty sure nobody gives a shit and would just rather have it be the price you pay listed anyways

its so fucking annoying to have 999 listed but you end up paying 1100 because taxes and fees and shit

and shipping

[lime pewter]

me with 0.03 cents on my bank account right now wishing the last 3 products weren't .99

[weak bluff]

Thats a US problem rest of the world have tax included

[zinc knoll]

not on websites

[weak bluff]

Unfortunately

Alsp does not matter premium or not it has psycological effect deny it or not if it does not work for you it works for others

[lime pewter]

for average consumer products maybe (honestly just average people who live blindly doing the same routine every day and didn't just research hours into a niche product but ehh)

[weak bluff]

Ofc even wikipedia of it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing

[lime pewter]

Its one of those things that make me wonder how people can be this simple minded... (tfw obvious fake nitro bots on discord actually work)

[weak bluff]

Even if you understand you can still fall for it

[zinc knoll]

i do all the time

[weak bluff]

When iPhone X came oit or Valve Index, reviewers always use words 1 grand, a thousand

Yet it still

That attractive official price made psycological change that people cannot feel

[lime pewter]

its always just "round it up, can't do anything with 1 cent anyway"

[zinc knoll]

its really not that hard when youre not devoting all your attention to what the numbers actually mean

[lime pewter]

you don't just convert 999.99 to 1000 in your head automatically?

[weak bluff]

My mom counter habit it by adding 1 no matter what and it causes reverse effect, discouraging us buy stuff more

Trick your own brain

But still cannot be immune to it

[lime pewter]

I just don't buy anything unless I truly think it would help with something in some way

[weak bluff]

You know what they say dont go shopping when you are hungry

[lime pewter]

me who doesn't feel hunger that way, just starts to physically hurt at somepoint:

[zinc knoll]

i do that too, just when looking at prices i look at them too fast

[lime pewter]

I usually research too much to get to that point

either I buy it without even caring about price (food items for example, just ain't buying luxury brands)
or I planned on buying it the past 3 months

[zinc knoll]

yea

[lime pewter]

I value money very little anyway

basically just "oh its 800, might as well spend 1600 and get what I wanted directly, less waste in the end"

[zinc knoll]

oof

[lime pewter]

me spending 1300 on a keyboard instead of 550 because "I don't want plastic caps, might as well just get aluminum while they are available":

usually fine anyway if you get enough in savings...
not like you are replacing it every few years
and can easily continue using it for 10+ years as its standardized sizing

[zinc knoll]

very true

[lime pewter]

usually look at it from "average cost per year" tbh

500 more sounds a lot less terrible if its for a TV that lasts 5 years, and in terms of savings would cost about 5-10% of your yearly savings on avg

or just 5 less visits to mcdonalds or a snackbar per year less

[zinc knoll]

oof mcdonlalalds

[lime pewter]

go to a snackbar, eat pizza or mcdonalds every few weeks when I am with my father for the day when he comes over to my place

not my costs, so idc

[zinc knoll]

ok then good

[lime pewter]

my diet is mostly just seeds and olive oil tho...

"a diet that took a long time to think of entirely focused on keeping it healthy-ish while being insanely calorie dense (basically just olive oil for calories but mostly healthy fats + things such as seeds that counteract the issues a high fat diet may give)"

anyway off topic

[grizzled field]

I always do that, sometimes I even raise it by another like 50 cents-$50, depending on the item to account for accessories or tax

[weak bluff]

Quest 2 (left) vs Pico 4 (right) FOV. Aren't those awfully close and only difference is vertical FOV?

also diagonal is a clever trick

[cedar belfry]

fixing someones left controller

[gloomy crater]

just being able to socket a new joystick module is a blessing I really wish I had, and it's genuinely just one of those things that the Quest 2 does better than the index. Maybe if I had a way to replace the entire joystick without removing the entire board and desoldering stuff instead of peeling apart the existing joystick while it's still attached to the board and doing surgery on it, my left index controller joystick would still work

[faint spindle]

i just bought a meta quest 2 like a few months ago, now there are runmors of a meta quest 3. how long are vr's ussually suporter for?

[leaden ruin]

Long

[zinc knoll]

its not gotten to the point where they've had to stop supporting a headset afaik

the original oculus rift is still supported

[faint spindle]

oh lol then I'm good

thanks😅

[zinc knoll]

yea you shouldnt be worried, VR isnt as douchey as most markets.

[haughty thistle]

Well, that one is PCVR, while the Quest is standalone. The Quest 1 for example is loosing support by the end of the year, and there are already games that have announced they will stop supporting the Quest 1 or are Quest 2 exclusive already. VRChat for example will drop Q1 Standalone support at the end of June I believe...
As the Quest 1 is quite a weak sauce device compared to the Quest 2, I'd also not be worried about the Quest 2 loosing support anytime soon. I'm just mentioning it, that as the Quest is an Android device, it will be handled as such when it comes to software (after a few years they will drop support and then your SOL)

[zinc knoll]

point was, that you should be able to use your headset forever(ish) with a PC. Standalone hardware will become obsolete because of how computer hardware works. also the quest 1 is getting to be 5 years or more old, and thats an eternity when it comes to hardware, especially mobile hardware

[haughty thistle]

Yeah, but the guy asking didn't mention PCVR, so I'd always highlight both sides of the coin

[zinc knoll]

true

[rancid lynx]

can anyone comment on (in their opinion) the more immersive vr headsets?

preferably something light

i have an index but it's poor durability is starting to show

and i may want something free from basestations

[zinc knoll]

ive heard the bigscreen beyond is gonna be an amazingly immersive headset/goggleset

but it does still have basestations and FOV may be lacking (we dont know yet)

[rancid lynx]

yeah it seems interesting

seems like the fov is 90deg

both of my controllers for my index are dead

i think ill get some new controllers for now and cope with the basestations

[zinc knoll]

FOV is unnanounced rn

[rancid lynx]

hopefully its good

any ideas when itll be announced?

[zinc knoll]

probably when the headset is fully released

[rancid lynx]

eugh

well tbf it doesnt come with anything

so if i get new controllers i can upgrade the headset later on

im kinda mad the decagear got cancelled

seemed cool