virtual-reality

[leaden ruin]

well it is besides my desk, in its original box and always connected

it is litterally a grab away

but idk

i kinda lost touch with vr i guess

nowadays i focus more on music

[rigid lily]

fair

[grave timber]

Should i buy pico for pc vr

[weak bluff]

Its good value wise for PCVR

Upgrade from Quest 2

[haughty thistle]

If that's what you do 90% of the time in VR, then the Reverb G2 is probably the best option without completely breaking the bank 😄

[rigid lily]

https://vxtwitter.com/AndrewHulshult/status/1626998305279430659 Amid Evil VR soon

[rustic garnet]

can you use quest 2 controllers with a quest 1?

[gloomy crater]

Unfortunately the two controller designs are pretty different and aren't interchangeable. (I would love it if the quest 1 controllers would work on quest 2 though, cause the ergonomics of the Q1 controllers are way better than the Q2's imo). The quest Pro controllers do however work with the quest 2.

[haughty thistle]

tl;dr: No, on the Quest 1 you're stuck with Quest 1 controllers

[weak bluff]

iirc Quest 1 and Rift S controllers are compatible?

[haughty thistle]

Yup. They use the same Touch controllers. There are 4 generations of Touch: CV1, V2, V3 and Touch Pro.

• The CV1s are only compatible with the Rift CV1
• The V2 compatible with the Rift S and Quest 1
• The V3 only with the Quest 2 (tho rumors have it, that they'll be compatible with the Quest 3 too)
• The Touch Pro are compatible with the Quest Pro and Quest 2

[gilded sapphire]

I wonder if the quest 3 will be worth the upgrade

I guess we will have to wait and see

But if tracking improves it’s probably worth wild

[dull tide]

Quest 3 for under $700 with facial tracking and possibly foviated rendering would be a must for me

[haughty thistle]

Quest 3 currently looks more like an iterative upgrade over the Quest 2. Same 3-step lens adjustment, but with the pancake lenses of the Quest Pro, (maybe) an upgraded (but still) single screen, different camera placement, same fabric strap with possible incompatibility to existing third-party straps...

No Face/Eye Tracking, same inside-out tracking as has always been on the Quest line of headsets, etc...

[warm stirrup]

I want a new pcvr headset in the 500-800 dollar range

Like a good rift or a slightly cheaper index

[weak bluff]

used Index would be decent choice

[warm stirrup]

I've heard problems with it tho like having to replace certain things constantly (I think thrillseeker said he replaced his controllers 6 times)

Also used is always going to be risky

[weak bluff]

yeah in a span like years and thousand hour usage which other headset coudl be just as bad

you could opt for Pico 4 with ok PCVR pair with good router

[warm stirrup]

I honestly just want to plug in my headset and run vr lmao

[weak bluff]

for plug and play maybe HP Reverb G2

[warm stirrup]

I've heard tracking isn't great

[weak bluff]

that thing is discontinuing

tracking sucks for controller indeed

Rift S has weak cable with reports of failing cables are increasing

[warm stirrup]

And I like to play beat saber so not good teacking is a deal breaker lmao

Yep

[weak bluff]

you basically have to pick lesser cons

best quality overall Index and if any issue with index you can buy replacement as for plug and play maybe high end WMR

or Rift S and pray

[warm stirrup]

Yeah which is why I'm waiting for a new headset, I'm not willing to spend 300+ dollars on something I'll either have to replace soon or just isn't enjoyable to me due to the cons

[weak bluff]

for decent value with wireless capability bonus (I woudl say basically plug and play if you setup well in first place) then Pico 4 or Quest 2 with accessories are fine

[weak bluff]

there wont be all round headset anytime soon

[warm stirrup]

Yep I know

[weak bluff]

and if you need it just get it now

[warm stirrup]

Yeah I can't do that, hopefully something comes out within 3 years

[weak bluff]

if you can wait 3 years then just wait

but that kinda misses the point that is 3 years without VR

[warm stirrup]

Yeah but at the end of the day, I'll save a lot of money and frustration

It would be cool if sony got the psvr2 to be compatible with pcvr

But chances of that are unlikely

[weak bluff]

Sony wont you have to depend on 3rd party driver makers

[haughty thistle]

The Tracking on the G2 doesn't suck as a lot of people say

[warm stirrup]

Yeah and if you haven't heard, the guy that got the psvr 1 to work on PC said that psvr2 is most likely impossible but he will keep trying

[haughty thistle]

Yes, it's not quite as good as the Quest, but it's damn' close. What it more of a problem is the lack of touch sensitivity on the buttons. Tho that's only a problem if you're playing social titles like VRChat. For most games that's a total non-issue

[weak bluff]

i though you said last time its controller sucks

[weak bluff]

there seem to be some surprising result when the Verge plugged it to PC

signal is not encrypted like rumours said

[warm stirrup]

We'll see, I hope it can work

[weak bluff]

https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/16/23602368/sony-playstation-vr2-pc-support

seems liek only missing some custom drivers

[haughty thistle]

I think the bigger problem with the PSVR2 is it's inside-out tracking. Just wanna re-iterate that the open-source reverse engineering effort for making the Rift CV1 work without the propriatary software so far only had HMD tracking using outside-in tracking working, and controllers are still a no-no...

[weak bluff]

at least biggest roadblock about video signal is not there

[haughty thistle]

Outside-in tracking is a much easier thing to do then inside-out. If it turns out that the tracking is done on the PS5, forget about the PSVR2 working as a 6dof HMD for the time it's relevant...

[weak bluff]

unless reverse engineer the software use to track but by then lol i bet we could make insidee out so widely available already

who knows someone made opne source inside out tracking and share it with PSVR2

[warm stirrup]

Do we have any info about what valve is doing with deckard?

[weak bluff]

dont bother you will wait forever

[warm stirrup]

Lmao, yeah I know, just curious tho

[weak bluff]

everytime a news about a patent come out people be like "OMG dont buy Index next year they gonna release bro" then it happened for years after years now

[haughty thistle]

Just wanna mention that earlier this year Valve gave production of lighthouses back to HTC. They took over production of 2.0 lighthouses before launch of the Index, so it might be an indication of something new coming, but I wouldn't take it as a sure-fire sign...
If you'd wait for something you don't even know when it will launch, you'd be waiting forever, as there will always be the next better thing...

[weak bluff]

and we still get lighthouse based headsets and accessories this year

HTC will make it for loooong time

dammit i wish for lighthouse standard but inside out

[warm stirrup]

Light house looks so nice

[weak bluff]

but expensive and limited

and not plug and play

[warm stirrup]

Yeah but when it works, it looks to work so much better than inside out, also it just looks cool in general lmao

[haughty thistle]

Not to mention that it being outside-in, and the base stations being just passive devices allows for some really cool applications like fullbody tracking or multiple users playing VR in the same playspace with the same 2-4 lighthouses

[warm stirrup]

Exactly fbt is great

[haughty thistle]

You could btw just get a used Vive or Vive Pro 1. You might be able to find one for less then 500 bucks which would be a really cheap entry way into the lighthouse eco-system. The OG Vive is quite dated, but it uses standard cables, so worst case, those are replaceable even without having to go first-party. The Vive Pro 1 is imo still one of the most comfortable HMDs ever made and it's OLED screens are imo much better then those of the Index. Tho with both you'd be getting Vive wands which are really dated. On the flip side they have better software compatibility with legacy titles like Virtual Virtual Reality. And when you have more money you can always replace those with new Index controllers...

[warm stirrup]

I'm honestly kind of curious, is the rift cv1 good in the slightest now as a pcvr headset? Does rift s make it just not worth it anymore? Is the screen door effect a big problem with it? Can lighthouse work with it?

[weak bluff]

vive pro 1 really despite the weigh

[weak bluff]

it is PCVR native but not SteamVR native

its like close to HTC Vive and has best latency

[haughty thistle]

The Rift F more like. Really if I had the choice between the CV1 and Rift S, I'd go with the CV1 any day. Better controllers, better tracking, better comfort, better audio. Basically better everything except for the lenses and screens...

[weak bluff]

Linus reviewed that

and you probably have to deal with dying Oculus PC support

[haughty thistle]

Tho with both the CV1 and Rift S be aware that replacement cables are unobtanium, and they really like to break. Especially on the CV1 at the back of the strap

[warm stirrup]

Yeah, it seems like the rift s would have terrible tracking with the camera placement but I don't see anyone complaining about it

[weak bluff]

its probably poor software support

[haughty thistle]

Tracking is not too bad on the Rift S, but it is a downgrade from the CV1. More of a problem is the fixed IPD (which is a genuine problem if your pupils aren't like 64mm apart) and the Rift S has a massive problem with the mic turning you into a Robot randomly

[weak bluff]

camera placement is not an issue

[warm stirrup]

So just to be clear, the valve index is the best all around headset right now

[weak bluff]

yes

[warm stirrup]

Is it worth getting for 750 dollars from eBay?

[haughty thistle]

Best all-in-one-box. And best for not going totally broke

[weak bluff]

for good condition i say its good

[haughty thistle]

This. Make sure the lenses aren't scratched

[warm stirrup]

What else could be potential issues to look for when purchasing a new headset besides lens scratched?

[weak bluff]

the knuckles controller is painful to fix i have my friend who bought a broken Index with dead battery and that thing is really hard to open so he plays plugged in

but luckily replacement is plenty available

[haughty thistle]

Borked cable (make sure it's not kinked anywhere, especially where it comes out at the front and at the clip on the back)

[weak bluff]

investing bit on cable management would be great

like ceiling pull

[warm stirrup]

Is it easy to replace these parts?

[haughty thistle]

And yes, make sure the sticks don't have drift (unfortunatly, you'll either have to test that or trust the seller)

[weak bluff]

easy to replace entire part fixing then hard

except cable hard to fix and find

[haughty thistle]

Hard to find? Bruv. You can buy it on Steam...

[weak bluff]

ok i withdraw lol

[warm stirrup]

Hmm yeah I'm thinking of getting an index used because it's the best for my case scenarios

[weak bluff]

my store dont show at all bruh

[haughty thistle]

You have to go to the store page for the Index HMD and then scroll down a bit

Under System Requirements:

[haughty thistle]

also, not available in your country. That's prolly why

[weak bluff]

cant even open product page at first place

pain

[warm stirrup]

Ifixit sells some index parts

[weak bluff]

they do officially sell but dont expect everything

and controller again hard to dissassemble

[haughty thistle]

Only controller parts sold on iFixit are 2 different wrist straps. The Index controllers really aren't designed with repairability in mind...

Yes, the main Index tether can also be bought on iFixit too...

[warm stirrup]

They do sell the cables at least

[weak bluff]

Steam Deck was really time when Valve mind repairability so maybe next headset will be easy to repair ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[warm stirrup]

Whenever it comes out lol

I wish there was a way to try out vr headsets like the index at a retailer kind of like how you can try out tablets phones pcs etx

[haughty thistle]

That's what the 14 day mandatory return period is there for in the EU. If you buy something online it can be reasonably assumed that you didn't had the chance to try out the device, so you get 14 days from receiving the product to try it out, and if you don't like it, the retailer will have to accept a return and refund you the full purchase price...

Tho that only applies to buying new from a retailer

[warm stirrup]

I'm in the US, as far as I know, that's not available to me

[haughty thistle]

Well, you got Amazon with their 30 day return window, no? Tho that doesn't help with products like the Index...

[warm stirrup]

Exactly

I'd like to just go to a retailer physically like best buy to try them out

[gloomy crater]

Oh yeah, I did end up buying a set of new joysticks off of aliexpress to see if I can repair my controllers myself since valve won't touch them. The one thing I will mention about buying a used index is that unless you are able to give valve the exact Steam account used to purchase your specific headset originally, they will refuse to service it. So when something inevitably breaks, it'll be up to you to either tear apart your expensive electronics to fix them (like I'm about to do once the new joysticks get here) or shell out big money for entire brand new ones, when chances are the old ones are still 90% functional.

A couple years ago, I made a bet that the Deckard would be out by Christmas of 2025, but it's looking like my bet was a bit optimistic. Friend I was making the bet with said by Summer 2030. Seems like he might win

[tawny wharf]

vr

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1628405665449316353

Brad Lynch (@SadlyItsBradley)

Whoever is running the official PlayStation YouTube channel is being a little cheeky here 🤔

Likes

106

Twitter · Feb 22, 2023, 2:45 PM

[sullen linden]

Lmao

I want one just cause of horizon

It looks incredible

The water the robots and everything the graphics are incredible

[sullen linden]

Anyone know anything about the pico neo 4 pro?

[sullen linden]

Nope

Just wait for the meta quest 3

it’s coming out this year

[spring sluice]

well that was fast

the source code of the psvr2 has been leaked

[pale orbit]

source?

[spring sluice]

https://twitter.com/lienbyy/status/1628436592640790530?s=46&t=6YbJUYCWYC-f7GDqlYKcfw

Li⛦🏳️‍⚧️ (@LiEnbyy)

How to crack PSVR2 authentication:

• Dump the emmc and reverse it? ❌
• Hack the PS5 and reverse it connects? ❌
• Hook up a logic analyizer? ❌
• Kindly ask Sony for the source code? ✔️

Likes

1584

Retweets

232

Twitter · Feb 22, 2023, 4:48 PM

[haughty thistle]

I mean... yeah... but it won't help at all with PSVR2 PC driver development. This source code is inherently proprietary to Sony. Any project making use of this (and even if it's just re-written based on someone having read through it) could thus potentially be seen as a copyright infringement.
Only a true clean-room reverse engineering project would be legal under the copyright law, but unfortunately, a proper clean-room project has no use for direct access to the back end...

In-fact, the fact the source code is out there now will likely mean that any PC driver for the PSVR2 will face a lot more scrutiny from Sony, even if it's a clean-room project. It doesn't mean that any attempt will be shot down immediately, but Sony will likely have a closer eye onto these projects...

[gloomy crater]

"I wish for the PSVR2 Source Code"

A finger curls on the monkey's paw

[rustic garnet]

don't people in situations like this usually have one team analyze the code and write up a specification and have another team implement it

funny little series of events though has the psvr2 even hit shelves yet

[devout trail]

This thing will get hacked up just like all the rest did. Wont have any official support. But you can bet it will be able to be used just like wii remotes and crappy webcams for VR setups. Just give it time.

[spring sluice]

hopefully one day when i hear about VR news it'll be about actual content and not another expensive headset

might be asking too much though

[hallow forge]

The actual content for me will be what valve brings with deckard, since if they dont bring a lot of qol things i can see vr dying

[spring sluice]

unfortunately we're going down a path of platform exclusives and lazy developers so im not very excited for the future of VR anymore

[hallow forge]

I can see that completely. It's quite a shame, especially with how meta really put the entire vr space in such a bad light with horizons (the quest lineup is perfectly fine, in fact if horizons budget went to focusing on better compatability with other things i believe they wouldnt have flopped as hard)

[gloomy crater]

Yeah I think it's been clear for a while that what we have now is nowhere close what we envisioned all those years ago. What we currently have is to what we were hoping for, what the virtual boy was to what we have now. If that makes any sense.

[hallow forge]

A bit

[haughty thistle]

I still believe the Quest is a poison pill to VR. Yes, it brings a lot of people into VR, but it also makes phone-quality games (both gameplay and visual quality wise) the standard for VR as well as making platform exclusivity totally normal for developers to embrace for VR. OpenXR was established very early to prevent this exclusivity from happening. Who has notably only ever implemented just the bare minimum of the OpenXR standard? That's right: Meta.

[warm stirrup]

I see the quest 2 being like a glorified Google cardboard

[weak bluff]

Meta is a real poison pill

It buys vr games industry then kills it

It left PCVR competition with HTC Vive

[leaden ruin]

among us vr is a daycare

i love those videos where the kids just cry when they lose

they get so worked up

[dull tide]

Rip Oculus. We’re stuck with glorified cardboard games.

Hate to say it but for the next 5 years the HLA era might have been the peak

[gloomy crater]

especially with how bonelab turned out. I saw so many videos talking about how it would revitalize the VR landscape and bring us back to the glory days when HLA, boneworks, and the index itself were brand new, while also allowing Quest users to get in on the fun. Turns out it was a mediocre overpriced framework project they pushed out to gobble up as much money from the community based off the good will of their previous game as possible. If that's how the game we thought would bring glory back to PCVR went, I don't imagine anything else coming along to try again for a long time.

[spring sluice]

skyrim vr update?

and half life alyx update

[burnt oasis]

https://youtu.be/R-bWKF6ySTo amazing

[warm stirrup]

Is there a newer version of the Index that might fix some problems when they were initially released?

[weak bluff]

you want something better than Index?

or revision

[weary yarrow]

https://youtu.be/leCXoF48Ysg

just incase anyone was wondering, here are 3 features coming or changing with the new Quest V50 Update

[burnt oasis]

there's other headsets, but not a superior index setup

big screen, varjo, crystal, quest pro, these all seem like total upgrades of the index

really the quest pro seems like the most direct index competitor

or a big screen beyond with knuckles, it's also around $1500 but i mean it weighs a 6th or a 7th of the index and much better clarity

[warm stirrup]

I meant like newer models of the index that fixes some more problematic issues with it (like the cable) (For example, nintendo released 2 versions of the regular switch, HAC-001 and HAC-001 (-01))

[burnt oasis]

nope i don't think so

i wouldn't buy an index in this day and age honestly

[warm stirrup]

Because some people say like in the comment section of Thrillseeker's index review that the cable failure problem isn't a thing anymore

It's literally the best headset that you can buy rn tho

[burnt oasis]

yea but if you're willing to wait a month or two

there will be better competition

[warm stirrup]

There's nothing coming out that would be valid to replace an index

[burnt oasis]

depends how much you want to spend

if ur willing to go up to $1500 big screen is a great choice

[warm stirrup]

I'm already spending 1000 dollars, I don't think money is a problem XD

[burnt oasis]

then go for big screen tbh, have you seen reviews?

[warm stirrup]

Not really, it doesn't have all of the bells and wistles that an index has

[burnt oasis]

what does the index have over it

other than price

[warm stirrup]

Bigscreen beyond just has a better screen and a smaller hmd, everything else is better on index

[burnt oasis]

we'll much better screen and much smaller and lighter hmd, decently smaller fov tho

up to you ig

[warm stirrup]

Index has built in audio, much better support, Knuckles controllers which still to this day are the best controllers on the market (And sure you can use things like the controllers and base stations on the bigscreen but it's a much better deal to get the index which is much cheaper and comes with all of those things, as well as many other features)

[gloomy crater]

I think the bigscreen is interesting in concept, but I'd rather wait and see what happens with it. Whether it's everything they advertise it as, whether there will be any issues once it launches, etc. It certainly isn't what I'm hoping for with Deckard, but it might be an okay stepping stone. That might be all it ends up being though, with that hefty price tag.

I paid $600 for my full index kit, barely used. I could buy two more identical kits and still have enough left over to buy a brand new set of controllers for the price of the bigscreen beyond on its own

[rigid lily]

Question: should I move from an M.2 boot drive to external NVMe for VR stuff

[modern totem]

quest is pure cancer to vr

I hate when devs downgrade games on pcvr just so they can have it work on quest and have crossplay

[gloomy crater]

Exactly

[warm stirrup]

I love how everyone was so happy for Quest and later on just hate on it lmao

[gloomy crater]

Quest was great when oculus was still oculus. Then facebook found a way to make it suck

If there had never been quest link, or any sort of way to play VR games on PC using a quest, and the two ecosystems had remained totally separate with their own individual developments, then things would be way better right now. But since standalone is now seen as 'the superior VR hardware' since you can use it to play on PC as well, everything is being catered towards that platform, which provides an inherently inferior experience. Y'know the saying "jack of all trades, master of none"? Yeah, that's basically quest and standalone as a whole

[burnt oasis]

think the quest 3 will change things?

since it's rumored to be 2.5x better chip

[gloomy crater]

Better chip doesn't mean Meta have any plans of axing their crummy 'we're allergic to DP' USB compression, one of the main things that makes doing PCVR on quest such a crapshoot. I don't see a truly compelling standalone headset coming out that doesn't either have x86 support or native display port connectivity.

[burnt oasis]

yea tru, not even apple one

[haughty thistle]

It also made wireless PCVR a standard for a lot of peeps, despite the fact that the tech just isn't there yet. Whenever I talk to Questies regarding headset upgrades, they often refute any potential option as "clearly worse", just because it has a cable. Yeah bruv, try sending Gigabytes of data with 0 latency through the air. Have fun...

[feral nacelle]

opinion on the pico 4? better or worse than quest 2? does it have all the games you want?

most importantly: does it come in black?

actually, glasses support?

[burnt oasis]

if ur not using it for pcvr as well i wouldnt reccomend it, otherwise look at reviews

[feral nacelle]

I do plan on that, because I don't want to repurchase games if a new company releases with better specs at a cheaper price, and also dont want to lose my save data

[burnt oasis]

hmmm, if the pimax 12k is just a pimax crystal but heavier and with more fov at $800 more, would that fov and less comfort be worth the price jump?

[sullen linden]

pico 4 is worse than the quest 2, it comes with a very small game library, feels like a knockoff of the quest 2, and no, it doesn't come in black, vrheadsets usually come in just 1 color

[sullen linden]

you also have to buy the base stations and controllers separately

[feral nacelle]

does it run android?

[sullen linden]

ye, both headsets do

[feral nacelle]

if so ill do my favourite thing
sideloading

[sullen linden]

i mean you could try

[feral nacelle]

which has better support for glasses?

[sullen linden]

probably quest 2

[feral nacelle]

quest 2 it is

[sullen linden]

also pico 4 doesn't ship to the US

[feral nacelle]

im european

anyways, tysm

[sullen linden]

it's available in Europe and east asia

[sullen linden]

np :D

i use my glasses with my quest 2 all the time and i don't have a problem, the only issue is that with the quest 2 your glasses will be stuck inside the headset when you take the headset off, although i haven't had this issue with 3rd party facial interfaces such as the Kiwi Design one

[feral nacelle]

gtk

[tawdry dove]

Someone I know on another server compiled a few headsets and showed the pixel per second average of each headset at native res, this isn't the be-all end-all for how hard it will be to run a headset but it is a nice way to show the difference

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/678704181753675855/1079205969634021516/IMG_7440.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/678704181753675855/1079199981526847559/IMG_7437.png?width=1920&height=758

[haughty thistle]

Yeah, one false assumption: Quest 1/2 and Pico 4 both don't have a native DP in and can't handle a video stream at native res, so the actual pps number sent over the USB/Wifi is much smaller

[haughty thistle]

Defo the Pico 4 when it comes to glasses support. It has a magnetic mounting ring on the lenses for easy installation of lens insers and overall the inside of the headset I found to be much more spacious then what Meta offers. While with the Quest you do still want to use the glasses space for peace of mind, I found no need for the one included with the Pico 4...
The Pico 4 also doesn't feel like a cheap knock-off. It kinda feels on-par build quality wise to the Quest 2 (which is to say, neither feels very premium, but neither feels like chinesium either).
Where I do have to take points off from the Pico is with the optics, screen and OS. The Optics are wavy and overall feel not very well calibrated. They also have quite a bit of internal reflections (not noticable most of the time, but very apparent in dark environments). The screens have a very poor pixel fill (which is to say quite large spacing between pixels) and rather poor color rendering (everything feels washed out). The OS seems to be unchanged from the Pico Neo 3, which is to say: a cheap knock-off from the Quest OS. They also don't seem to have adjusted the resolution target for the home environment from the Neo 3, aka the home menu is quite blurry 👀

Think of the Pico 4 what a Huawei is to a Samsung phone. Both run Android, both have similar build quality in hardware, but the Huawei one has just a terrible UI with a crappy/limited app selection...

[rustic garnet]

uh the difference here is 8 hz

cant possibly be right

[tawdry dove]

On the graph it's right

idk what happened there

or spreadsheet whatever

the second image

[quiet crag]

dunno why y'all hate on the quest 2

works fine for me on pcvr

and also in nomad mode, and for the price it does all i ask it to do while costing less than an index

it's an amazing product for it's price and opens VR for alot of people

[haughty thistle]

Yeah, but also at a fraction of the image and tracking quality of the Index...

[quiet crag]

who cares about that other than you

the average person does not

and the quest 2 is marketed towards them, not you

[warm stirrup]

Lmao, how standards have dropped in the industry

[gloomy crater]

Yup. If people keep gobbling up sub par products going "but it works fine the way it is!" then nothing will ever get better...

If consumers were more critical of the trite being produced in the VR space nowadays, we may have had a shot at getting something EVEN BETTER than the index, all while being completely standalone. All of the strengths of both platforms, with the weaknesses of neither. But because people (hint ^ hint) keep insisting that everything being made nowadays is fine the way that it is, there's no incentive for companies to make anything better. Being critical of inherently weak products is what leads to better products in the future, that's why it's called 'constructive criticism'

[haughty thistle]

It's this mindset that allows Apple, Samsung and the likes to be this anti-consumer, and completely getting away with it...

[jolly path]

the average person could care less

which sucks

[burnt oasis]

most people stop using their quest in a couple months then it collects dust

[burnt oasis]

not a fraction of the image tho image wise id argue they're relative

tho im my case id say the quest 2 did get me into vr

[harsh niche]

literally me

I go through phases that last a week where I play it again then just dump it once more… then a few months later repeat

[gloomy crater]

I had two friends who both owned Quest 2's. Neither of them have theirs anymore. Both said it was fun and cool when they first got them, but then they got bored quickly and needed the $300 back more than they needed another game console to dump more money into when they already both had PCs and playstations to use. My sister had her own Quest 2, until she got a Reverb G2 and gave it away. I've sometimes considered buying myself a Quest 2 because I travel A LOT and having something to do while far away from my PC other than watch netflix on my phone would probably be fun, and I already own a couple of the necessary accessories bc I got them as gifts for my sister before I knew she had gotten rid of hers (whoops) but I always stop myself because I know for sure it's something I'm only ever gonna use when I've got nothing better to do, and if I ever stop traveling it's gonna start collecting dust like every other Q2 owned by someone I know

[burnt oasis]

yes, the vram well it depends on the headset

[weak bluff]

Yes its fine

3060 tho will outlast longer thanks to high VRAM

[warm stirrup]

Yeah RTX 3060 does VR pretty well

Is it a good idea to buy a refurb Index from Gamestop or is that a little too risky?

[burnt oasis]

but it has higher vram

you should be fine, my 6650xt has lower memory bus and i rarely stutter

[warm stirrup]

Higher Vram will help lmao

My best friend has an RTX 3060 and runs with the Quest 2, he gets over 60 fps unless if the game is particularly laggy in some cases (ie VRChat)

[cobalt geyser]

VRChat is nearly impossible to run at high fps, if in a big world with a lot of people.

[warm stirrup]

I'm curious, how well does a 4090 play in a bigger vrchat world with lots of ppl

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/Tyrielwood/status/1630484301925044224

Tyriel ✪ (@Tyrielwood)

The creators of the tool to use the first PSVR with Steam VR are starting to work on the PSVR2!!
Let's make it happen guys!

Twitter · Feb 28, 2023, 8:25 AM

[burnt oasis]

does an x3d cpu give you any performance benefit compared to regular amounts of cache?

[cobalt geyser]

Yes, it actually seems to help a lot for unity games and VRChat. https://www.reddit.com/r/VRchat/comments/115lay9/vrchat_comparison_of_amd_ryzen_5800x_and_5800x3d

[cobalt geyser]

VRChat is usually cpu limited. I don't think I ever saw my RTX 3090 anywhere near 100% utilization. ~30% was typical.

VRChat loves to use huge amounts of vram though.

[haughty thistle]

It's not VRChat that eats up VRAM. It's the avatars of people who can't be bothered to think just a second about optimisation...

I can't name the group that's the biggest offender in that regard (as it's apparently a banned word here), but if you've been in a public lobby, you've most likely seen them. And I'm not talking about the full-on anthro-animal avatars...

Imagine you have some dude with an avi that requires 200MB VRAM. You'd think that's an insignificant amount. But now imagine a lobby with 20 people, each of their avatars taking about 200MB VRAM. Now you're already at 4GB of VRAM usage. VRAM/Texture usage adds up quite quickly, so in my mind anything beyond 60MB should already be rated poor...

That's ofc not the limits the VRC Team decided on. In case you're curios, these are it:

[warm stirrup]

Really? which part of the cpu would be more needed? Cores, threads, or speed?

[cobalt geyser]

speed and l2/l3 cache, amd x3d chips are best by far for vrchat. Even the 5800x3d beats a 13900k.

[fickle creek]

is their an easy way to get a vr display for windows? i love those vr glasses, but its way out of my price range to try.

also these are what i mean by vr glasses
https://www.amazon.com/Glasses-Massive-Micro-OLED-Augmented-iOS-Consoles-Compatible/dp/B0BF5LKP5Q/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?

[cobalt geyser]

Meta quest 2 is the cheapest VR headset you can use with a PC

[fickle creek]

what about a used quest 1?

[cobalt geyser]

Yeah, you could even get a used oculus rift for really cheap if you want.

[fickle creek]

id be using it for a display only so i dont need really high res

[warm stirrup]

How much better is the rift s? If they were able to be gotten at the same price, which one would you choose?

Rift s vs cv1

[haughty thistle]

CV1 >>> Rift S
The CV1 is lighter, has way better audio (both mic and headphones), has OLED screens, outside in Tracking, no software issues and last but not least: it has the most comfortable VR controllers ever made

[cloud pier]

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/er3bwl/going_from_rift_cv1_vs_rift_s_my_experience/

A factor to think about is the setup. Do you have the ability / permission to run cables and possibly wall mount sensors in your play area? If not, the Rift S might be the better option, despite the few things it isn't as good on.

Do also remember that you may need to add a PCIe USB card, to add more USB controllers to your computer. They're usually around 20 bucks though, or more if you want to add even more plugs.

CV1 would be the cheaper way to go, but it is older. Still, in some ways, better than the Rift S.

I've got a Quest 1 (Though I had a Rift S for a few hours)
Me, I'd prefer the CV1. I miss the older controller design. The tracking was better, cause of the outside-in tracking. But I do love the fully wireless setup of a Quest.

Especially as I don't play much VR now a days. It's nice to be able to setup with just the headset, and have a Beat Saber session. Then put it away for 6 months and not touch it again xD

Haven't sold it just because I know I will want to play again sometime this year.

[haughty thistle]

Something with at least 6GB of VRAM and the performance similar of a 2060 or better

That's usually considered as the bare minimum of "VR ready"

If you want a concrete answer for what would be a decent entry-level VR card: you can't go wrong with the RTX 3060 for sure

[haughty thistle]

The 3060 has more VRAM which helps massively in VRChat and for higher-res headsets. But I think for the games you mentioned the Ti variant should be fine too 🙂

[weak bluff]

Its fine some games are more hog than others

Just saying 3060 will last longer if you dont upgrade for long time

[gilded sapphire]

In my experience the oculus client itself uses like 30% GPU

[warm stirrup]

I can mount the trackers on stands like tripods, I cannot wall mount them. Rift cv1 has a way better audio system and would be much easier to not have to potentially buy headphones however not sure if the rift s is that much better. Durability is another factor, I'd like it to last a decent amount of time

[sullen linden]

Rip echo vr I will miss it

[haughty thistle]

The cable is a massive issue on both the CV1 and Rift S. Tho replacement cables can be more easily found for the CV1, mostly as there are more CV1 HMDs in circulation to snag a cable from and Oculus actually sold replacement cables for the CV1 back in the day...

[sullen linden]

Have you guys played vtol vr

It’s so cool

You fly military jets in vr

https://store.steampowered.com/app/667970/VTOL_VR/

Steam

VTOL VR

VTOL VR is a near-futuristic combat flight game built specifically for Virtual Reality. Pilot advanced multi-role jets, using your hands to flip switches, press buttons, and manipulate the virtual flight controls. Take on a wide array of challenges that will put your flight skills, situational awareness, and combat tactics to the test.No extra ...

Price

$29.99

Recommendations

9677

▶ Play video

[warm stirrup]

Is it an issue with cable failure like valve index or is it just extra things you need (like USB controllers)

[haughty thistle]

Nope. Cable failure. In the back where the cable comes out on the CV1 it's put under a lot of stress, especially if you're not careful when putting on or off the headset (which realistically speaking means most people). With the Rift S it's a similar issue, tho here not because of you putting the cable under stress when putting the headset on, here you put the cable under stress when adjusting the strap (which you'll do a lot due to the halo-strap design)

Both the CV1 and Rift S use all copper cables, and this reoccurring bending in the same area basically causes material fatigue and ultimately breaking of the thinner then human hair copper strands inside...

[warm stirrup]

Hmmm ok, would vive be any better? I'm trying to get a cheaper pcvr only headset that I can get to just "have vr" until a company or just valve themselves makes a headset that is either same as Index or better than index with better durability

And I could also use it as a back up headset

[haughty thistle]

The OG Vive, when it cable breaks, you can just use off-the-shelf USB, HDMI and barrel-power cables (tho good luck finding a cursed USB cable with a Type-A male end on both sides). In general the Vive cable seems significantly more resilliant, not to mention you can still buy a new 3-in-1 cable for the OG Vive directly from HTC

[warm stirrup]

Huh, only issue to me is screen door effect and audio solution.

Is there any other headsets that would fit the bill?

[haughty thistle]

I think all the entry level options have been discussed so far...
The Vive Pro 1 can often be had for like maybe a hundred more then the OG Vive in a full kit, and it's significantly better. Index-like resolution (which even tho it's pentile OLED feels sharper then the Index), OLED screens, one of (if not the) most comfortable headstraps of all time and pretty average, if not better then average lenses. It's kinda funny that the "minor" improvements HTC made to their lenses for the Pro 1 pretty much put it on-par, if maybe a tad below the Quest 2 lenses.
The built in mic and headphones are pretty lackluster, but the strap does allow for over-ear headphones (given the headband sticks out a little around your ears) and there is a USB-C port on board which will work just fine with active USB-C to headphone jack adapers. Yes, this also means you can hook up a mic to it (I use my Senny GameOne headset and a 4-pole headset cable plugged into a Type-C to headphone jack adapter no problem)

I mentioned headband clearance issues, as the earcups from my Sony WH-1000XM3 do fit underneath the strap of the VP1, but when I go ahead and put on the other earcup, the headband on the XM3s is sitting on the headband of the VP1, lifting the top of the earcups off my head. Tho the Sonys are particularly low-profile with their headband, so not too surprising...

[warm stirrup]

Huh, can the vive pro 1 base stations be mounted on something like tripods without having to wall mount them?

[haughty thistle]

You can, but it's generally not recommended, as you really want them fixed in space, while a tri-pod often likes to wobble by slight amounts from just you walking on the floor...

A number of people actually do use tri-pods for their lighthouses

[warm stirrup]

Any way you could wall mount them without drilling a hole in the wall?

[finite yarrow]

Velcro?

[warm stirrup]

Idk if that will hold

[finite yarrow]

How heavy are they? I use it for light networking gear. Can also use a combination of velro and push pins. Stick the velcro to the base station then make straps of velcro held by the pins to the wall

Example of light networking gear in my case is up to an 8 port switch in size that I've used. Great for small stuff

[gloomy crater]

I used a 3d printed base station mount velcro'd to the wall for six months and they never budged. Then I moved, and one of them failed and the base station fell off the wall, but not because of the Velcro. It fell because I didn't give the adhesive holding the Velcro strips to the wall enough time to cure before sticking the base stations on. I think if I had given it enough time to cure, it would have been solid as it was at my old place, but I decided to just drill the mounts this time instead of dealing with it

[haughty thistle]

You don't wanna drop your lighthouses. Personally I wouldn't take the risk, but everyone their own I guess

[cloud pier]

I’d probably go with CV1, double side tape and Velcro are of course options when you don’t want to drill into a wall.
But think about clean up when / if the time comes to remove them.

I’ve got tons of spots on my walls where paint was ripped off, or adhesive is still there, from double sided tape.

I’d say filling a small hole and painting over is going to be easier than retexturing a wall and then still having to paint over.

Had one of those ceiling cable suspension setups for a bit. That’s what the 3 vertical and ceiling spots were from.

Now if you live with concrete or brick walls, adhesive would be the easier way to go xD
And it shouldn’t damage your walls.

[eternal vessel]

i played a little bit of Blade and sorcery earlier via airlink on the quest 2, my link cable broke so im stuck using 200mbps airlink until i get an index etc, and i punched my racing wheel and cut my hand somehow

[boreal raft]

This a good build for VR? This is the most i will spend

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/WkQXcb

[sullen linden]

yes

[hallow cliff]

any ideas on how i could improve my pully system?

the ceiling fan is effectively the center

[hallow cliff]

not so sure an i5 will get you the performance you need to match the 3080. also if you are willing to buy second hand you can get a 3080ti for about the same price as what you have the 3080 listed for

[boreal raft]

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/p2qTyK

this better?

[hallow cliff]

its a lot more balanced for sure

[boreal raft]

or i could go 13600k

save a bit of money aswell

[hallow cliff]

personally i would go ryzen over intel but whatever floats your boat

[boreal raft]

what ryzen chip would u reccomend

[hallow cliff]

depends on if you want an upgrade path in the future

[boreal raft]

ill probably upgrade in like 4 years

[hallow cliff]

you can get a 5800x3d for a great price right now, but you wont be able to upgrade to 7000 series and newer

[boreal raft]

5 maybe

ok

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/WVtPrD

this good?

[hallow cliff]

looks great

and that gives you a gpu upgrade in the future

[boreal raft]

ok

thanks

[warm stirrup]

Do HTC base stations (1.0) work with Rift CV1 (And same vice versa?)

[hallow cliff]

no i believe the rift CV1 is inside out tracking

[warm stirrup]

No rift s is inside out

[hallow cliff]

ah got them mixed up

[warm stirrup]

Rift CV1 is outside in

[hallow cliff]

it sounds like it does not work however

the rift CV1 uses cameras to track while lighthouses use laser arrays

[haughty thistle]

The CV1 uses what are essentially Webcams to track a set of IR LEDs on the headset and controllers, so it's base stations have to be plugged into the PC using USB 3.0 (they're really high bandwidth devices; so high quality USB 3 cables required). HTC/Valve Lighthouses are passive devices. They send out beams of IR light which is then picked up by the controllers and headset for tracking. So the direction of light is inversed between lighthouse and the CV1 and they're thus incompatible

[twin isle]

lol, this is the first thing that showed up when I went to virtual reality

[wooden ember]

Hello guys.
Until now I only have played in VR with an Oculus GO (Yeah i know i know .... it was a present so....)
I’m wondering what VR headset is good enough to not vomit on the keyboard while dogfighting in elite dangerous …
I was looking at the Quest 2 or the Pico 4 / Pico 3 neo link.
Anyone got a feedback / recommendation ?
Maybe something else ?
Ps I live in Japan and not everything is sold or at a sane price.

[haughty thistle]

I'm not sure how the prices compare over in Japan, but for sim games like E:D the Reverb G2 would be a pretty good candidate. Much lower latency then both the Quest 2 and Pico 4, higher resolution screen then the Quest 2 and Pico Neo 3 Link and better quality screen then at least the Pico 4 (haven't tried the Neo 3 Link or the Quest 2 unfortunatly)

[wooden ember]

There is some return that a USB-C with an intel chipset is needed. does it work with AMD systems ?

[haughty thistle]

The G2 comes included with a USB-C to A adapter in the box (only uses that for USB connection, für DP it uses it's own connector). And the thing about it not working on AMD was never really a big issue and certainly isn't now. The older cables from the very early units required just a USB hub in between the USB ports coming from the AMD chipset and the headset cable. But that problem has long been fixed

@wooden ember

[wooden ember]

thanks.
Here is what I have found (Price in JPY):
HP Reverb 2 (Headset + 2 controller), Amazon only at around ¥100,000 (Third party seller only)
PICO4 128G (Headset + 2 controller) ¥44,000
PICO4 256G (Headset + 2 controller) ¥54,400
Quest 2 128GB (Headset + 2 controller) ¥59,400
Quest 2 256GB (Headset + 2 controller) ¥74,400
VIVE Cosmos (Headset + 2 controller) ¥87,200
VIVE Cosmos Elite (Headset + 2 controller + 2 base) ¥119,100
VIVE Pro (Headset + 2 controller + 2 base) ¥137,000
VALVE INDEX VR KIT (Headset + 2 controller + 2 base) ¥165,980
VIVE Pro Eye (Headset + 2 controller + 2 base) ¥209,000
VIVE PRO 2 (Headset + 2 controller + 2 base) ¥209,000

Indeed i think the pricing and availability is a problem here also ...

[weak bluff]

No Quest 128GB?

Also Pico 4 out of them for PCVR is probably best overall

[wooden ember]

added

[weak bluff]

Quite steep dont Rakuten have any promotion?

I would still stand with Pico 4 if you use PC or of standalone matters to you try Quest 2

Preferably buy a good condition used Quest 2 if available

[wooden ember]

Rakuten got same prices + / - 2000 yen but with delivery to pay ...

[wooden ember]

i haven't found one without scratch on lenses at cheaper price than a new pico ...

[haughty thistle]

Vive Pro ? Is that the Pro 1 (aka with blue plastics on the front) or a Pro 2 (with a black plastic front)?

[wooden ember]

Pro,
The pro 2 is at the same price as the Pro eye ¥209,000

list expanded

[haughty thistle]

But yeah, those prices are spicey. Yikes...
The Vive Cosmos is a big no-no. It has quite a few tracking issues and the Cosmos Elite is frankly just overpriced for what it offers, tho not as much in Japan it seems 👀
The Pico 4 unfortunatly has terrible wired PCVR support, and the official wireless solution is also terrible. You wanna use VD with this headset, but it's wireless only, so if you're fine with a limited battery life for seated games, it could still be an option.
I do have to say, you guys are getting a crazy deal on the Quest 2 and Pico 4. It makes the G2 seem like a terrible option in comparison. And frankly, it likely is because third-party sellers really like to jack prices...
For a very dark game like E:D the Vive Pro 1 might genuinely be a good choice. It might not have the greatest headphones and mic (you really do wanna use something else with that headset), but it's OLED, so perfect for dark games. The Pro 1 and Pro Eye are identical except for the eye tracking of course. It only matters if you play VRChat tho...

[wooden ember]

thanks a lot.

so in that case the vive pro is great

[haughty thistle]

Literally the Zucc in the picture
https://fxtwitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1631127451194761216

[kindred spade]

I will play my jail broken beat saber and they will not touch it

[hallow cliff]

pico 4 definitely if you can buy it.

i havent been able to try one myself but from the spec sheet as well as what ive heard from other people in the vr community its pretty much the best quest competitor, as well as pancake lenses being incredibly clear

oh yeah and i believe pico just released / is about to release an update that allows OpenXR support which is great for compatibility

[haughty thistle]

Their Pancake lenses are absolute 💩
No joke, I've tried the Pico 4 and it had tons of internal reflections (like to the point where I'd say the 5+ year old VP1 lenses are in a league of their own), the image was quite wavy (which hints at poorly calibrated optics) and the screens also weren't that great. Worse Pixel fill, colors and contrast then the older Reverb G2. And like I already mentioned the official streaming client is terrible, so VD is really the only proper option. If they wanna use the headset seated (like they mentioned they would) it would make sense to use a cable, but VD doesn't support that. And yes, I've tried that weird reverse USB-Tethering thing and it didn't work...

Paper Specs aren't everything. Especially with VR hardware. I'm fortunate enough to have tried out most consumer headsets on the market (really the only exception to this are most standalone HMDs as I'm not really interested in that market; Quest 1 I own and the Pico 4 I've tried and returned) and from my experience, some headsets are just pure garbo, others are kinda great in some aspects and other aspects not as great. Really you'll have compromises with every headsets. Tho some have more then others cough Pimax cough. And then there are the devices where you just facepalm and wonder why they even bothered, for example the Vive Pro 2...

[cunning orchid]

Can the MSI sword 15.6 inch with the rtx 3050 handle vr? Like connecting a oculus quest 2 to it

[rustic garnet]

This is not relevant for vr applications

or really at all if you don't know what they've benchmarked

[wooden ember]

@haughty thistle @hallow cliff I think the pico is a hit or miss… as much as I saw from other user, it depend if the lenses are good or bad (it seem the production quality is not great and change a lot from model to model). Next the focus point seem to be more for Asian people (which make sense when you think about their market) and for European type the focus point of the lenses is too close from the headset to be clear. Depending on your physiology it can change a lot.
Tomorrow I will go to a shop where the pico is shown and will test it … but I’m not sure I will take it just because I have glasses (the bottom of a bottle type … very thick) and I am afraid my glasses will make the focal point even worse …

[hallow cliff]

interesting

yeah my rating on the pico is purely speculative, im in the states

and ive also heard many people in the vr community that do really like the pico

some people say they dont go back to the index after the pico

[wooden ember]

i think the best is to test XD

but as @haughty thistle said the best VR headset for my case may be a OLED / AMOLED one for pure black in space ... also having the possibility to work from out the box with steam VR is the best

[burnt oasis]

can you use VD with your headset plugged into an outlet? it's what i do withh my quest 2 for more power

[burnt oasis]

i personally would not try that, 4gb for vr sounds terrible and it's a laptop 3050

[haughty thistle]

You can, but.. like... why? Buy a dedicated router so you can still play with a wire anyways...

[burnt oasis]

battery life

lasts forever that way

[haughty thistle]

(not really as the headset can afaik not charge as fast as the SOC uses power but whatever)

[digital monolith]

can't drill in the walls lol

This is surprisingly sturdy

[weak bluff]

just an earthquake away

[cedar belfry]

How dare you

[digital monolith]

it's actually super sturdy lol

[digital monolith]

I think if there's an earthquake I'm gonna have bigger concerns then my vr setup

like a cinder block in my chest cavity

or the 7 floors above me in my building

[cedar belfry]

True, but-

istg if the tape leaves a residue, I will personally find you and scream

[kindred spade]

...they

they make tripods

for that specific reason

[cedar belfry]

YES

[hallow cliff]

clever and resourceful, i like it

looks like that super sticky tape too thats annoying to get off your fingers

[hallow cliff]

quest pros price is being permanently cut to 1000$

... just four months after launch

[sterile field]

Yeah thats how I play VRC with mine. I use VD and have my laptop connected with ethernet. I have heard the Airlink thing is much better than it used to be but then you are stuck not using SteamVR

[haughty thistle]

Well, you can still use SteamVR with AirLink (just like you can with Quest Link over a cable), but then you'd have to have the Oculus Desktop Software running which is a notorious resource hog. Even just the backround service it installs can be quite a CPU handbreak (so if you have the Oculus software installed, set those to manual startup in taskmanager!)

[tawdry dove]

@wooden ember @haughty thistle
I sent all the stuff about the pico 4 in another vr server

Nice insight

[wooden ember]

yeah i thought so especially when I am comparing review from Japan and from Europe ...

[pale orbit]

https://twitter.com/iVRy_VR/status/1631248505132949510

iVRy (@iVRy_VR)

Sony PSVR2 requires a USB-C port that can provide 12v power, as well as alt-DP and USB3.x. That means VirtualLink is required for use on PC.

Likes

185

Twitter · Mar 2, 2023, 11:02 AM

[weak bluff]

the only cards with VL that are most commons are founders edition RTX 20 series GPU

and selected AMD GPUs but they are very rare

[haughty thistle]

You can buy VL injectors, tho they don't come cheap

300$ when you buy the one from VRgenieers (and I think Varjo might be selling one now as well)

Yeah, 149€/$ + tax from Varjo

[weak bluff]

RX 7000 USB C is not the same? What is missing in it?

[rustic garnet]

WHAT

they're passive parts aren't they?????????

[haughty thistle]

Actually no. It's a whole different protocol that needs to be generated for the USB 3.1 Gen1 + DP1.4 signal. What you're buying is essentially a mini-computer. Tho like i said, the one from Varjo is about half the price, so get that one if you absolutely have to

[hallow cliff]

i have VL on my 2070s but not my new 3080ti

although couldnt you make a splitter like the index has?

[digital monolith]

Lol alright I'll ping you when i remove it

[haughty thistle]

The Link box isn't that much larger then the big bulky connector where the splitter part plugs into the main tether. Tho you also have to keep in mind that the Index cable is basically just one cable carrying those three cables internally, while VL is actually combining the three signals into one larger signal to transmit via Type-C I doubt there's actually enough conductors on the Type-jack to carry DP, USB and power all with their own seperate pins...

The most space consuming thing on the Index tether really is the signal amplifier that is present in the bulky breakout connector, while the VL box has to do much more then just boost a signal strength...

[devout trail]

Seems like USB 4 supports all of that. Up to 48v, DP, and ability to change protocols depending on host and sink.

[cobalt geyser]

I find shower curtain rods, vertically oriented in the corners to be the superior way to mount base stations.

[cedar belfry]

😭 _ _

STOP
MOUNTING
SHIT
LIKE
THIS

[cobalt geyser]

Why? I don't have to drill holes and it takes up less space than any other option.

[cedar belfry]

but at least it isnt tape

so

[cobalt geyser]

It's very stable

https://a.co/d/fOMvlEA this is what clips into the rod and you screw the base station into

tension holds the shower curtain rod firmly in place

[cedar belfry]

OHHHHH
then

sorry

[cobalt geyser]

what did you think I just taped it to the rod? lol

[cedar belfry]

looked like zip ties

[cobalt geyser]

Yeah that would be bad

[warm stirrup]

I hear that when people talk about some pcvr headset tracking (outside in with base stations) they say when it works its great. I've never heard any other issue besides valve (never heard of any other companies' fail) 2.0 trackers failing, cable routing being a hard thing to do (as long as the cables are relatively long, that's not a problem for me) and mounting. Is there any other issue that I'm not aware of? (ie trackers hard to maybe calibrate or hard to detect on steam)

[rustic garnet]

Wdym does it embed both usb and dp in one datastream?

[haughty thistle]

USB-C DP Alt-Mode isn't just dedicating pins on the Type-C connector for the DP signal. It interleaves the DP Signal with the USB one. There just aren't enough conductors for both on Type-C...

That's also why some DP-Alt cables can carry DP 1.4 signals, but it can only do either 2 Lanes + USB 3.1 or 4 Lanes + USB 2.0. All because of bandwidth limitations

[rustic garnet]

that's crazy i never would've known

But 300 bucks 🤯😐 is exorbitant omg

[haughty thistle]

Lighthouse Tracking really hates reflective surfaces. Mirrors for obvious reasons, but some Displays and even certain Window-Types can cause tracking issues. Tho in my experience at least with Windows it's usually only when you get really close to them...

[haughty thistle]

That's the VRgineers one (which is sold as a replacement part for the 8000$ XTAL headset). Varjo sells the exact same box for 149$ as a replacement part for their Aero headset (also a 2000$ headset)

[rustic garnet]

Fair enough and those are like business oriented or whatever

[haughty thistle]

Yup. I mean... you could try your luck contacting BizLink (the makers of this VL injector box), but I doubt they'd even pick up the phone if you don't intend on buying by the thousands...

[weak bluff]

Can you pinch your hand like an 👌 ok sign accurately on index?

[rustic garnet]

How do you mean accurately

[warm stirrup]

I don't have any mirrors and my window is always closed by a curtain so you can't see it, would that be fine?

[haughty thistle]

Absolutely

[devout trail]

How does a usb C port not have enough connectors to have enough bandwidth but yet USB4 allows 80gbps bidirectional? Or even 120gbps one way? Looks like that could handle DP1.4 along with an extra 5gbps for USB 3.0 data just fine……So its easily done on a usb C connection? And allows for everything else that a PSVR2 or VL headset would need over the C port.

[haughty thistle]

It's serial data for those speeds

[devout trail]

Not if it’s got a DP signal along with USB data. It allows protocol changes depending on host and sink for what actual signal will be used. It can combine DP1.4 along with 4 lanes on pci express for extra data. Along with up to 48v of power.

[pallid kettle]

Why is there no VR helmets? I'm thinking speakers/headphones, fans, no VR hanging onto your face.

[sullen linden]

That’s what I’m saying

This would be so bad ass

[tawdry dove]

would probably only be suitable for slower vr games

If I sweat in vr normally that thing will make me into a waterfall

[pallid kettle]

But see, if it was a helmet it could have a fan in the back, and instead of a gasket around your eyes it could just be open to that flowing air but since you're in a helmet you don't need the gasket to block outside light.

[warm stirrup]

There's so much you'd need to perfect, overall VR quality, cooling for yourself, weight, I think it's just too much

Maybe in like 20 years but for now I'd stick to headsets

Especially how VR isn't really good right now as it stands

[finite yarrow]

Imo the weight problem is easy. Idc if the whole thing weighs more on my head if that weight is balanced.

[woven slate]

So add lead weights to the back of your head (or a battery pack), and enjoy.

I personally find weight is uncomfortable. It's worse if it's off-balance, but it still matters.

The other thing that really matters a lot is how far the headset protrudes from your head. The angular momentum increases a lot as mass moves further out from the pivot (aka spine). A helmet that adds some distance all the way around your head, even in useless places, adds a lot of angular momentum, which feels like resistance to motion. A simple head strap has very little mass and keeps it as close as possible to your head.

A helmet is probably likely to have overheating problems too.

I must admit that with my current headset, for long duration use the pressure on my head is probably the most uncomfortable thing eventually and a helmet style might help with that a little by spreading some load. But I agree with the above comment; only good for slow things where you don't need to turn your head much.

Something that spreads load better across your head without fully enclosing might be okay, especially for chair-bound use. I would like a headset that has a smooth back that I can lean against my chair and still roll comfortably from side to side.

I currently use an "enhanced" head strap (3D printed) for Quest 2, but it still gets uncomfortable and doesn't roll smoothly. I think this is an area where people, even users, could be making a lot of improvement.

[weak bluff]

Ah yes create a solution to a problem created

You are not cool for wearing something no one will see

[burnt oasis]

tbh less then that, more like 5 years

were gonna have so many consumer ish headsets released this year compared to the last 5 years

[woven basin]

I don’t like quest two due to how it sits on my face, I much prefer index but my bitchass is broke af

And imo new pc build >>> vr in my priorities

[warm stirrup]

Bro valve hasnt released their headset yet (and let's be honest they are the best vr making company) and they probably won't for a good time. Also nobody has attempted it. The vr industry is young, we don't even have fully working consumer omnidirectional vr treadmills yet. It's going to take a long time

Also not many headsets are releasing this year, quest 3 definitely unless meta fucks it up, maybe a couple other meta headsets, we already have psvr and the vive, and maybe there will be a dumb startup headset from a small company that everyone gets hyped about and no one buys, also we do have apples headset but I don't think that will do that well at it's 3000 dollar rumored price

I can see a small company attempting it maybe but that would fail so fast

[rustic garnet]

Isn't bigscreen's tiny little headset also releasing

[hallow cliff]

yes q3

bigscreen beyond is going to be the best news for PCVR

[weak bluff]

For what

[hallow cliff]

high end gaming

[hallow cliff]

quest 3 is coming q4 probably november if i were to guess. no other meta headsets this year

[hallow cliff]

omni directional treadmills are also very unlikely to be mass adopted by consumers given the space they take up. however a company called Ekto Vr is working on "moon boots" which have rollers in them to keep you in the center of the room

[modern totem]

that will never work

too easy to have them fail and get serious injury

[hallow cliff]

https://youtu.be/MNVvLgvGU3A?t=28

clearly its not ready, but at the same time its something i think we can be excited for

[craggy coral]

Would it be possible to make shoes that are Omni directional? Your feet move anyway

[hallow cliff]

thats what these are

[craggy coral]

Bet

That’s cool

[modern totem]

imagine playing onward in this

you roll back while crouching

[hallow cliff]

but they are currently only available in commercial applications

[craggy coral]

Oh

[modern totem]

when you run you suddenly hit your furniture

[hallow cliff]

its stupid what they are using it for too lmao. they are using like a 50,000$ vr setup for plumbers to fix gas leaks in vr lmao

https://youtu.be/GJHv_CHHuV8

[gloomy crater]

Dang I was expecting to mess this up and break something horribly, but I opened my index controller and replaced the little metal pieces in the joystick and it fixed the drifting problem. I'm still having stick clicking / sprinting issues due to it being a first batch controller, but at least I can play more games without wanting to throw something across the room bc my controller is moving me when I don't want it to

[burnt oasis]

pimax crystal, big screen

[gilded sapphire]

Is slimeVR worth it

[weak bluff]

slimevr builder here if you are ok with its downside sure

[cobalt geyser]

https://www.stonx.io/ I hear these are maybe better than slime trackers and don't drift like slime does.

[rustic garnet]

gonna be real with u chief i am not buying something called "the strongdong"

????.?????????

?!!!!!

[rustic garnet]

cap 🧢🧢 any soley IMU based tracker will inevitably drift without a fixed reference frame to well, reference

Oooo well that's fair enough

the earth itself is really the ultimate reference frame

[tranquil girder]

does AR count

I got a hololens gen 1 off ebay

[gentle pier]

Are there some cheap aftermarket be controllers I am able to buy? All of them are really expensive

[gloomy crater]

The price of controllers will depend on what system you own. But even then, unfortunately, unlike normal controllers which can be made cheaply due to only consisting of joysticks, buttons, and maybe a few other sensors, VR controllers have a lot of specialized componentry in them. Depending on the controller, there can be gyroscopes, light emitters, touch sensors, or even entire tracking SOCs. All this stuff makes VR controllers not only extremely specialized to whatever consoles were designed with those controllers in mind, making it impossible to have a one-controller-fits-any-system scenario, but also rather expensive when compared to how cheaply aftermarket controllers for regular games can be bought for.

[gentle pier]

So buying some like used controllers will likely be a lot more expensive than buying a used oculus rift s?

Was planning on doing that

For racing sims, can you use like an Xbox controller with a car headset if you don’t have a wheel?

[gloomy crater]

I'm saying there's no such thing as a cheap aftermarket controller for 6DOF VR the way there are cheap aftermarket playstation/xbox controllers. Whatever you find is gonna be used first party, or only steamvr compatible

[gloomy crater]

yes you can do that

[gentle pier]

Can I build my own controllers out of arduino?

[gloomy crater]

That's kinda outside of my realm to say. It'd most likely be very difficult what with the way Meta locks down their software

[gentle pier]

🤔 thanks for your help🙂

[weak bluff]

Those are absurd expensive and from video tests it runs worse than slime in natural movements

Im gonna be biased with you but i would keep slimevr

While its issues can be better with software updates there are other issues that bother me

They use proprietary software and their backing is absurdly large. They also tricked people into thinking backing starts at €210 when in reality only 10 early people got it and the rest have to pay €270.

Words from SlimeVR founders

Slimevr in contrary software is open source and improvements software side is amazing. I would say best for if you want a nice community on top of FBT.

[weak bluff]

You can build your own using phone or AprilTag but their performance sucks dont recommend it. And there are zero third party vr controllers for now.

Also rift s and quest 1 use same standards so try find used either controller if you use either headset

[haughty thistle]

StonX had a great start when they were still chasing the "webcam and some IR Emitter" thing. But the more I hear about them, the more it just seems like they're just trying to make a quick buck with minimal effort...

[weak bluff]

I so agree with that

[burnt oasis]

FAP tech lol i've seen a review on this

[deep herald]

is a vrbox (or other cheapo vr headsets for under $20) worth getting to start using virtual reality stuff? since I haven't tried it but this whole thing looks interesting

[weak bluff]

you mean like phone vr boxes?

[haughty thistle]

Not really. Those really cheapo things are essentially just stereoscopic image viewers...

It's not real VR if you know what I mean

[weak bluff]

it also created bad impression for VR

even tho its not really what VR is all about

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deep herald]

yea, but you could plug em into a pc too

[weak bluff]

does not change much

[deep herald]

Ohh I understand and because I mainly want to watch 360° youtube videos , it's the main reason

[weak bluff]

in that case sure you can with just google cardboard

[deep herald]

I have never seen it for sale recently so I'm not sure.

[weak bluff]

yes its discontinued vrbox should have same functionality

you should pay less than $10 for that

[haughty thistle]

The best all in one box solution, yes.

You can get headsets that are better in some aspects at higher and/or lower prices, but if all you want is to buy one set and know it's gonna be great, the Index is the one 😄

Like, take the Varjo Aero for example. Crazy high resolution screens with probably one of the best optics out there. The HMD alone is 2x the price of the Index full kit, and it doesn't even come with audio and the included headstrap is kinda meh. Or the G2 of which the full kit is only about the price of the Index HMD alone, with higher res and better quality screens, but the optics are only so-so and the controllers are also meh...

[haughty thistle]

It's not bad as long as you don't handle it like a piece of crap. General advice for longevity (what worked for me):

• Don't click with the sticks on the controllers
• Don't use a pully system and be weary of the cable in general
• keep the headstrap straight or move it only minimally (moving it up much will cause the cable to kink)
• keep the lenses away from sunlight or chemicals

[viscid tendon]

Imagine not being able to use a Pulley system, that's pretty awful, lol.

Just get a good quality one with an adjustable tension to reduce the amount of force put on the cable, like the Kiwi Design one, and just like PC cable management don't make it stupid tight, leave some slack.

[haughty thistle]

A pully system, puts your cable under a lot of stress

[viscid tendon]

No, a badly designed or set up pulley system does.

but that's no different than stepping on it or stuffing it under a rug

[haughty thistle]

They've been resposible for the early death of a lot of HMD cables, not just from the Index (CV1 & Rift S mainly)

[viscid tendon]

poor setups are responsible, user error.

Lmao.

[haughty thistle]

That's why I generally recommend staying away from one unless you know what you're getting yourself into...

[viscid tendon]

Poor setups and first gen hardware failure, name a better duo.

I mean like cable management on a PC or Desk, leave some slack, don't make sharp bends or knots, make the final run on each end as straight as possible.

[weak bluff]

are early death mostly copper cables

[devout trail]

I use a pulley system for my CV1 and Vive cosmos. Been fine for years now and no issues.

[jade bane]

Quest 2 or reverb g2 for pcvr, don't care about the standalone aspect of Quest 2

The only worry I have is I've heard reverb g2 tracking is sub par, but will it be that big of a deal if I'm not playing anything on a 'competitive' scale

Maybe some beatsaber or rec room stuff like that lol, the main thing I want to do with vr is Sim Racing

Basically I'm leaning more towards reverb g2 but is the controller tracking that detrimental or is it just criticized since it's just not quite as good as quest 2 inside out tracking for example

[gloomy crater]

As long as you get the V2, it's not really the tracking but the controllers I'd be critical of. Tracking wise, you're pretty much on par with most other inside out tracked headsets like the Q2. The controllers, however, are kinda like Meta's touch controllers, but are a bit smaller, feel cheaper, and to some are harder to work with and hold. Basically, the tracking's fine, the controllers feel a bit crummy. This can likely be pretty easily fixed with some of those index hand strap cover things, but just something to be wary of.

[jade bane]

Gotcha, reason im directly comparing these 2 rn is bcus quest 2 is 530 CAD rn, and the reverb g2 is 200 bucks off at 630 CAD, so pretty comparable price (im accounting for the fact I'll also need to get a cable for the quest 2 to work on pc)

You think my 3060ti should be able to run the reverb g2 fine, maybe just with some settings turned down?

[burnt oasis]

i would say quest pro is better if you don't mind the speaker or have your own headphones. If you want vive trackers well another $400 for base stations. quest pro has pancake lens, better res, face and eye tracking, stand-alone, full color pass through, better controllers too

slightly lower fov tho

no on ear speakers, and no base stations for vive trackers, those are the only 3 cons i can think off, same price now tho

tbh fresnel lenses alone are a dealbreaker for me now

but that's just me

[jade bane]

'Quest pro is better if you want to have a significantly worse experience'

Lol

[burnt oasis]

how so

[jade bane]

That's what you said

[burnt oasis]

where

[jade bane]

You said quest pro is better if you aren't planning on having x features

And then listed a million

[burnt oasis]

those features have simple workarounds

the index has issues that cannot be changed

it's low resolution, tethered, no face and eye tracking, and shitty fresnel lenses

[jade bane]

This right here is a good sales pitch for the index lol

[burnt oasis]

well obviously the index doesn't have any of those

[jade bane]

You didn't word that right then lmao

That message is saying the quest pro doesn't have any of those features

[burnt oasis]

i was listing all the superior things if the quest pro, minus the headphones and base station tracking (tho aren't you able to get base stations with quest?)

[jade bane]

No idea lol I don't know fuck all about those headsets

I've just been looking at midrange stuff

[burnt oasis]

okay well turns out you can, so that's even better for quest

[jade bane]

Think ima pick up the hp reverb in a couple weeks, hoping it stays on sale

[burnt oasis]

think i will get a quest pro definitely now

unless pimax crystal ever fuckin releases

[jade bane]

Isn't that like targeted towards industry stuff not consumers

[burnt oasis]

it's now $1000 tho

[jade bane]

Ofc it is technically a consumer headset but it's not like the features of it are used in games lol

Not yet atleast

[burnt oasis]

for the header and controlled

[jade bane]

1300 CAD is still crazy

[burnt oasis]

it can use steamvr and quest 2 games like a normal headset

[jade bane]

Hp reverb g2 is half of that lol

[burnt oasis]

the index is as well with worser controllers and a headset with much worse optics and less features

[jade bane]

Bro wym the index has fantastic controllers

[burnt oasis]

they are good, quest pro has better ones tho

[jade bane]

I mean the quest pro has the 'extra features' like those cameras

[burnt oasis]

literally track themselves

[jade bane]

But that doesn't make them better at tracking

Index is still more accurate those cameras just make the inside out tracking idea more appealing

Makes it closer to base stations

[burnt oasis]

better actually

[jade bane]

Na can't be

[burnt oasis]

since they can be tracked anywhere

like IMUS?

except they don't lose tracking

[jade bane]

Yeah but who cares about being tracked anywhere

Your still gonna be in your 'playspace' with both headsets

One area lol

[burnt oasis]

so let's say the tracking quality is relatively equal

[jade bane]

Sure

[burnt oasis]

biggest thing for me is pancake lenses

[jade bane]

Guessing that allows for big fov

?

[burnt oasis]

it's fov is more like the g2 and yea it can

but pancake lenses allow edge to edge clarity

[jade bane]

Isn't the g2's fov 'meh' tho

[burnt oasis]

like the varjo aero

[jade bane]

Just good enough

Ah less blur in corners

[burnt oasis]

and a wayyy larger sweet spot

[jade bane]

Yeah proly

[burnt oasis]

no need to adjust constantly

and the eye tracking i've heard is great

[jade bane]

Although if they are flat wouldn't that mean you could also see the edge of the lense better

[burnt oasis]

since you don't have to turn your head to look around

[jade bane]

Not shaped to your eye as good lol

[burnt oasis]

you can use your eye

eyes

and you can read it since there's a lot less blur on the edges

[jade bane]

Idk I've only ever used psvr and og vive

At my buddies houses

[burnt oasis]

u should look at a review of it

[jade bane]

Was pretty fun honestly I didn't mind the screen door effect

[burnt oasis]

it's ehh at $1500 but at $1000 it's a contender

[jade bane]

I guess

But

Something you gotta agree on

The index looks way cooler lol

Quest pro looks ugly af

[burnt oasis]

the looks really don't matter

you cant see the headset in vr lol

[jade bane]

I know lol

But still thing look goofy ahh

[gloomy crater]

Yeah, I'd say that'd be fine even with the pixel density turned down. The G2 has really solid visuals and your GPU should be plenty capable of getting a good experience

[jade bane]

Cheers

[vocal portal]

making grips for my controllers

[burnt oasis]

chaaaaaat deeeeeeeeeeeedddddd

[tawdry dove]

They gotta do a refresh with better lenses

The reverb g2 would be a no brainer

[pale orbit]

https://youtu.be/qxNYsKz9Huk

[haughty thistle]

Ah yes! One of the biggest Pimax Shills get's a prototype to rave about. Who would've thought?

[weak bluff]

I never used Pimax but i want to know what makes many people traumatized by it especially Tupper

My friend love FOV and is thinking of upping from his Vive Pro 2 to Pimax 5k Super so how bad can it be

[burnt oasis]

terrible software

[jade bane]

Is there anything new coming for vr that isn't 1-2k bucks? I feel like the budget-mid range options have been really stagnant for the better part of 3 years

Nothing new lol, nothing for the 'wide consumer' that is

[copper edge]

im building a vr video game, I never realized how much work it takes

[weak bluff]

Yes captain obvious i know i want more detail

[haughty thistle]

Thank Meta for selling a device for much cheaper then it should be worth and thus destroying that exact market 🙃

[exotic steeple]

Playstation VR 2?

[haughty thistle]

You need a PS5 for that, and is it really 600$ when you don't already have a PS5? and even if PC drivers exist, you'd need to spend at least another 150$ on a VL compatible link box if you don't happen to have a 20-Series Nvidia GPU

[exotic steeple]

true

But as far as VR headsets go it's not a bad deal if you happen to own a ps5, which is probably the best console on the market atm

[jade bane]

great specs hugely limited games available

[chrome sphinx]

Are nreal glasses the best augmented reality glasses?

[burnt oasis]

meh specs and only 5 games, good panels shit lenses

[burnt oasis]

well i shouldnt give you any with that attitude, but here. Lens distortion, they always overpromise and underdeliver, hella delays (pimax crystal was supposed to release a year ago now, 12k was supposed to last year as well), idk abou tthe software as i dont own one but very annoying ive heard

[jade bane]

180 USD for OG Vive, got everything with it? (Including box/manuals and all that)

Any good?

[gloomy crater]

I'd probably go for that, as long as everything is functional. Like, if the HMD isn't battered, controllers are still working, base stations and link box cables are all whole, then I'd say it's an okay price

[haughty thistle]

You're basically getting a pair of lighthouses for cheap, and a free Vive with controllers on top

[glacial marten]

how would i be able to use a quest 2 as a monitor for pc like how the sim racers do it

[weak bluff]

So you want multi monitor or play in vr

[glacial marten]

multi

i dont want to use oculus link as unsupported gpu

[haughty thistle]

Then you're pretty much out of luck unfortunatly...

[glacial marten]

gtx 1650

[glacial marten]

dam

is there not a workaround

[haughty thistle]

I mean, pretty much all solutions I can think of make use of some sort of PCVR software

You could try and see if the Parsec Android app can run on the Quest 2, but yeah...

[glacial marten]

because ive ran gta on super high and my gpu survived, only sounded like a jet engine

[haughty thistle]

If Quest Link refuses to work, then it's likely because your GPU doesn't support some low latency compression algo (which would be required to get an image from your PC to the Quest)

[glacial marten]

ah

it works but its like really laggy

on home menu

[haughty thistle]

If the specs from your bio are correct, then it's probably your CPU being a big ol' bottle neck. Does your PC even have USB 3 ports?

[glacial marten]

uh

my case has one but it doesnt work

so no

[haughty thistle]

Yeah, there's ya problem

[glacial marten]

they are

[haughty thistle]

USB 2 has no where near enough bandwidth for any sort of video stream...

[glacial marten]

air link?

[haughty thistle]

You could try that, if you have a dedicated 5GHz wireless AP

[glacial marten]

my router has 5ghz

[haughty thistle]

Your main one? How many devices are on that 5GHz Wifi?

[glacial marten]

uh lemme check

[haughty thistle]

You pretty much want your Quest to be the only device on that 5GHz network, or else you gonna have a bad time

[glacial marten]

4 devices

[haughty thistle]

Yeah, that could be a problem too

If your PC has a PCIe slot available you could get a USB 3 add-in card

[glacial marten]

yea i got 2

one extrmely old pcie slot and a gpu type pcie

[haughty thistle]

extrmely old? You mean like a large PCI slot?

[glacial marten]

uh

its white

yea my board says 2.0 on it too

[haughty thistle]

Ah! The blue one at the bottom is PCIe. The white one is PCI. You'd want that PCIe slot for USB 3

[glacial marten]

ah

yeah

do u think the PCI port would work for a network card

probs not

[haughty thistle]

Not for Gigabit (1000/100/10). Fast Ethernet at best (10/100)...

[glacial marten]

probs yeah

[haughty thistle]

PCI has (if I recall correctly) 133MBit/s of shared bus bandwidth (so shared between all PCI devices)

That's why you need PCIe for faster interconnects like USB 3 (which can do about 5GBit/s) or Gigabit ethernet (1GBit/s)

[glacial marten]

time to yeet off xbox and unknown

i wonder what is connected

for unknown

[haughty thistle]

Btw. if your goal was to use the Quest to simulate monitors you don't have, then it'd be a wasted effort anyways. The Quest can do VR and pull your physical monitors into a virtual environment, but because of Windows it can't generate virtual monitors you don't have...

Works for games that do have a native VR mode tho (which is like a bazillion times better then just simulating monitors anyways)

[glacial marten]

oh

[rustic garnet]

There's gotta be a way to trick windows into rendering an extra monitor though

But like i think you'll have a better experience just getting an extra actual monitor

[glacial marten]

ig

[warm stirrup]

Why does the Quest have to be the only thing connected to a router to work well on airlink when I can have like 3 tablets, 2 Xboxs and one pc connected to the same router and running connections just fine

[hallow cliff]

bandwidth

also if you are only using airlink, consider buying virtual desktop. works much better. its on oculus store for like 20$

[autumn sinew]

can i hook up webcam to oculous go and play the video to the headset then add an overlay to the view?

[violet charm]

Valve index vs pimax crystal vs quest 2 vs quest Pro I'm going for something for pcvr mostly

If quest 2 pro is really good compared valve index and pimax I might get the pro

I'm considering pimax crystal

[jade bane]

Ayo I just found a vive pro with everything, including 2.0 trackers and all that for 450 CAD. that feels like a great deal

Considering the 2.0 trackers are 200 CAD a pop

[jade bane]

Reverb g2 😃 (pimax if your aware they don't come with tracking stations or controllers)

I'm debating on if I get this vive pro for 450 CAD or getting a reverb g2 brand new for 570 ish CAD. Would it be worth to invest in the steam VR ecosystem?

[violet charm]

Not sure I've only really owned a original rift, rift s , quest 2

I did try a pimax once but it was one of the original ones

[jade bane]

Pimax is out of my price range due to controllers & trackers not being included

[haughty thistle]

Unless you love to tinker with things more then to actually use the thing you're tinkering with, Pimax is just a bad choice. Their software is like bottom of the barrel chinesium crap, QC is all over the place, and the lenses aren't even properly calibrated to the screen from the factory...

If what you want is a good out of the box PCVR experience you have 3 options really:
The Reverb G2 is probably the best choice as long as you don't intend on playing VRChat, the Index is probably the best choice for VRChat with it's controllers and the Quest Pro is a decent middle ground (tho keep in mind that you might want to buy a dedicated Wifi AP for wireless or a high quality 5m USB 3 cable for link)

[jade bane]

Looks like Im gonna get a Reverb lol

VRChat (and games like it) are something I know for a fact I'll never touch

Primary use is Sim Racing, but of course I'm still interested in playing other vr games (beatsaber, Alyx, dunno how much I'll like it but Pavlov might be interesting)

Yall think a 3060ti should get around fine with a g2 right?

[haughty thistle]

Maybe not enough horses to run the G2 at native res, but that's what the resolution slider is there for. Alternatively for games you don't move around in (aka sim racers and such) you can use Open composite with OpenXR toolkit to use fixed Foveated rendering to eek out more performance at a higher resolution

Native OpenXR titles you don't even need Open composite for, as all that does is make native SteamVR titles run on OpenXR (kinda what Revive does for Oculus titles to run on SteamVR)

[warm stirrup]

Why would the g2 not be good for vrchat

[haughty thistle]

The controllers lack touch sensitivity making the gestures a pain to use

Yes, you can use Index controllers, but then you also need lighthouses, and a reference tracker for continuous calibration is also advised...

Yes the whole setup is more streamline then Pimax (especially if you use continuous calibration), but it's still quite a bit of tinkering going in, which is why I personally wouldn't recommend it to people who just want something that just works...

[warm stirrup]

True

[burnt oasis]

quest pro already is good value compared to the index, much better headset with equivalent controllers at the same price, it's only drawback would be audio (and if you specifically want vive trackers you'll need base stations as well) but with the improved optics and features, i would say it's still fine if you ended up paying slightly more in the long run

[burnt oasis]

not with that vram, not sure

[weak bluff]

yesterday played VRChat with just 3 avatars enabled VRAM usage full lol

and i have 8GB VRAM

[haughty thistle]

Not just the audio is a drawback. You may have less SDE, but because compression is a thing on the QP you get less effective resolution then on the Index while also getting a lower refresh rate.
While I personally have never worn a QP, from what I've heard from other people it's quite uncomfortable for more then an hour or so, while pretty much everyone I've spoken with has no issues wearing their Index for 4+ hours...

[weak bluff]

Quest pro should have overhead strap

but it does not

[haughty thistle]

The only headset I've worn, where the lack of a top strap is a non issue is the Varjoe Aero. But that's also like what? 2 grand?

And for piets sake GBoard! Stop Autocorrecting Varjo to Varjoe!!

[jade bane]

What? I mean if it was 4 or 6 maybe but how would 8 not be enough

I'm not expecting to run full res, prolly 60% res or something

[burnt oasis]

3060ti doesn't have a very large memory bus so it's vram is eaten quicker

[burnt oasis]

you should be fine then

[jade bane]

Apparently for VR sim racing iRacing is really well optimized? If so that's pretty much all I need since that's my go to sim lol

[haughty thistle]

I'd still say that 6GB is the bare minimum you wanna have, less then 4GB is an absolute nope for VR and 8+ GB is generally the recommended amount of VRAM. VRChat is an exception, as a lot of people are either too lazy or too ignorant to optimise their models, so they end up using 200+ MiB for just the textures in VRAM. If you have a lobby of 20 people all with 200+ MiB VRAM usage, then that's already 4 GiB of VRAM usage for just those avatars alone. Factor in VRAM usage for the world, the meshes, the game UI, the VR compositor, VR overlays you may have running, framebuffer for the HMD and other displays, the compression algo if you're using a Quest/Pico headset and you're well in the 8+ GB minimum range...

[warm stirrup]

Hopefully my 3070 ti will pull off fine...barely meets that requirement with 8gb of GDDR6X

[jade bane]

Considering I've got a 3060ti, I'm really debating on if I get this vive pro for 450 CAD used, or the reverb for 570 cad new lol

The vive pro has oled so that is a benefit

And if I want to stick with steamvr products down the road I'll have 2 2.0 trackers for basically the same price as MSRP (and getting the vive pro + controllers as a benefit lol)

What yall think

[warm stirrup]

It seems like the reverb is the best for simulation but the vive pro also gives a better value

[jade bane]

Yeah I mean my main use case will be simulation, but at the same time the vive pro doesn't have a terrible res

1440x1600 per eye is respectable

I've only ever tried og vive and psvr 1 so whatever headset i get it'd be a big step up lol

[haughty thistle]

Can agree, the Pro 1 is an awesome headset. For pure VR simming, I'd still prefer the G2 (just because of that pure resolution), but other then that...

[tawdry dove]

I'm just waiting for the first consumer focused headset with foveated rendering

But aren't we all?

[random laurel]

Anyone here know if the extra cache on the X3D cpu's help alot in VR or if I'm better off looking for faster clocks?

[hallow cliff]

it does help alot

essentially it lets the cpu store more things in L3 instead of taking 6-10x as long fetching it from ram

just remember the x3d chips are non overclockable

[random laurel]

Excellent, I've been googling like crazy and noone does comparison benchmarks in VR

[hallow cliff]

some people do comparison bench marks in dcs vr

very demanding game

[random laurel]

oh

have a channel I can check out

?

[hallow cliff]

https://youtu.be/ACrqoCdrFAE

[random laurel]

Perfect

[hallow cliff]

this is 5600x but it has the same perforamnce as a 5950x in this game because until literally 2 fucking days ago it was single core, single thread

[random laurel]

Isn't that an issue with the game?

is it really new?

[hallow cliff]

its from 2009

its kinda an issue with the game but it has so many things going on that the l3 really helps

[random laurel]

This is the most solid info I've found on the internet so far, thanks a ton

[hallow cliff]

my friend with 3090 and 5800x upgraded to 5800x3d, and saw a massive boost in performance

im going to do the same as well soon, i have a 3080ti

[random laurel]

Aight so 7800x3d should be a good bet then?

[hallow cliff]

yeah

[random laurel]

excellent, making a list for a friend who's got money rolling in around release for it so should be good

[hallow cliff]

https://youtu.be/pqtrKYz9WD8

here is also a good comparison

[random laurel]

Holy hell game's intense on literally everything

[hallow cliff]

yep. most accurate flight sim

[random laurel]

Finding a GPU with shit tons of VRAM is prio one then?

[hallow cliff]

for that game

but the extra vram lets you crank resolution in most games, and would also be perfect for upcoming bigscreen beyond

although i only have 12gb of vram on my 3080ti and i can crank my index to 150% res at 144hz with no issues. and its not even running at pcie gen 4

[random laurel]

Are AMD cards any good in VR? comparable atleast? because new RTX cards around here are incredibly overpriced still

like hog 70% of budget

[hallow cliff]

amd cards are good but the 7000 series still has some serious issues in vr

6000 series is fine tho

also if you are looking 30 series check ebay, lots of people are selling their cards roughly half price

[random laurel]

Gonna have a looksie

thanks a ton!

[hallow cliff]

yeah np

glad my obsession with hardware and vr has helped someone

[balmy ferry]

I've got a 5800x3d and a 3070. Before the 5800x3d and 3070 I had a 5600x and a 3060(which I got from my dad so I had to give it back eventually) in most the VR games I play the performance jumped like crazy. Even when I had the 3060 and the 5800x3d for awhile performance still jumped by like 15%

Seems VR loves the excess l3 cache

[hallow cliff]

i havent run into many issues since i got my 3080ti with vr. crazy how my 3800x is still holding up

once it does run into issues i will definitely get a 5800x3d, if not before that lmao

[jade bane]

Yall gotta make the call lol I've got a 3060ti, would a g2 with lowered render res still look better than a og vive pro at full res?

*and would it be worth to get the vive pro even if it's slightly worse than the g2 res wise

[hallow cliff]

what are you using the g2 for

[jade bane]

I want vr for sim racing but still want to play regular vr games casually

Nothing competitively and no vrchat God no

[hallow cliff]

i have heard a lot of people with tracking issues on the g2

[jade bane]

I've looked into that and apparently it comes down to lighting more than anything

[hallow cliff]

but your 3060ti should be able to handle its res well

[jade bane]

And fortunately I've got lighting on lock, can get a 'moody' lighting scenario

Which Is what it performs best in ig

[hallow cliff]

interesting

that sounds backwards to me

but ive also never owned a g2

[jade bane]

Too much light and too little light are bad

The tracking isn't infrared it uses visible light on the controllers, so if the light is too bright it can't see the controllers, and if it's too dark it can track the controllers but then it can't track the headset

[hallow cliff]

but yeah i wouldnt worry about lowering res on a 3060ti

[jade bane]

Gotcha

I'm hearing mixed opinions

Some say 'fuck no it can't run near full res' and 'you'll be ok' lol

[hallow cliff]

it has 8gb vram right?

[jade bane]

Yes

[hallow cliff]

you should be fine

[jade bane]

Wish it were 12 but it sucks to suck ig

[hallow cliff]

i had great performance on index at 90hz on a 2070s so i think youll be ok

index is also lower res tho

[jade bane]

Isn't index like 1440x1600 per eye tho

[hallow cliff]

dont remember

but i know the g2 is higher res

[jade bane]

Yeah the g2 is 2160x2160 and index is 1440x1600 lol

[hallow cliff]

god damn

[jade bane]

+50% more pixels

[hallow cliff]

also i hear wmr is basically on life support

i also never owned a wmr headset so take that how you will

[jade bane]

As long as they don't render wmr headsets useless I think it'll be fine. There's an option in win11 now that allows you to auto open steamvr once you turn on a wmr headset

So you can pretty much completely avoid the shit that is wmr

[hallow cliff]

oh nice

yeah go for reverb then, especially if you can get it cheap

or rift s

[jade bane]

570 CAD with sale and coupon I think is respectable

Don't want to get rift S lol

[hallow cliff]

i think thats good, its msrp is like 600 us

[jade bane]

Ye

570 cad I think is 420 USD or something lmao

I know it went on sale for 400 USD last black friday

[hallow cliff]

it was 300 actually

best deal in vr history

[jade bane]

Oh Jesus

Malding I missed that

Win some you lose some ig lol

[hallow cliff]

yeah

[haughty thistle]

No. Don't go Rift S. That thing has quite some issues. First and foremost: the cables like breaking now and outside of the ones that came with headsets, only replacement cables were ever sent out as part of RMA processes. Basically, to replace a faulty cable you have to buy another perfectly functional used headset

[jade bane]

And rq about vr cables they are these thick ass cables how do they seem to break 24/7

Everyone says 'piece of junk! Cable broke in 1 month' or some shit lol

[hallow cliff]

idk. my cats chewed up my index cable and it still works perfectly fine

[haughty thistle]

VR cables generally aren't a problem if it's routed properly on the headset, and you don't handle it like a pair of dollar store earbuds...

[jade bane]

I've got a 50 foot ethernet cable routed up my stairs to my router and it's been ran over and shit a million times and it's still in perfect shape lmao

[haughty thistle]

You're lucky then. Even just rolling it over with a chair can break it. The actual copper wires inside are probably as thin as human hairs and it's pretty prone of picking up interference when the shielding breaks

[hallow cliff]

could also be because pcvr headsets carry DP, 12v, and usb 3.2 all together

[jade bane]

I don't let my cat in the basement so no worries about chewing up the cable

Suppose I'll just need to keep it loose and not under much strain

[haughty thistle]

Well, that's Cat something with like 8 conductors. Most VR headsets use cables that combine a whole bunch of conductors for DB, USB and power. And none of these really like to cross over each other...

[jade bane]

Would it be good practice to unplug the cable from the headset after use?

[hallow cliff]

meh

i mean best practice would be to put your vr headset in a case or something after every use

[haughty thistle]

If it's one of those high-density connectors: no. They're meant to be used like 30x and that's it. Example: the Index breakout connector. It's using OcuLink for that which is rated for 30 replugs over the entire life time of the connector

[jade bane]

Assuming this means a quick cable strip and resolder wouldn't fix a freyed cable then

For vr cables*

[hallow cliff]

cable has been like this over a year

culprit is right there

[jade bane]

So unplugging after use literally wears it faster lol weird

[haughty thistle]

Yup. You're 100% correct on that one. People have attempted to fix Rift CV1 cables (which btw only have to carry HDMI 1.4 which is generally more forgiving), and it's really not something for the feint of heart. Put your sodering iron too hot and the wire just puffs into thin air. Too cold and you can't soder. Oh, and don't mix up the wires for which you probably need a magnifying glass...

[jade bane]

Yikes lol

[hallow cliff]

i can see why the breakout cable is rated for only 30 uses

shit feels weird to plug back in

[jade bane]

Temperature wouldn't be a worry since I've got a Station with good temp control, but prolly way too fine cables to position correctly

[haughty thistle]

You can unplug the USB/DP end of the cable no problem btw. It's just those high-density connectors which are usually just borrowed from the server market, where unplugging often isn't needed

[hallow cliff]

interesting

[jade bane]

Is the high density connector part the one that goes into the headset

[haughty thistle]

Just because it's rated for 30 replugs doesn't mean it won't last beyond that. Just saying you shouldn't chance it...

[jade bane]

Tru

[jade bane]

Looks like a display port to me 🤡

[hallow cliff]

lol

[haughty thistle]

Usually the part that goes into the headset and the one that goes into the breakout box/cable. There are exceptions that use USB-C, but those are pretty much exclusively enterprise headsets

[hallow cliff]

you mean like virtual link?

[jade bane]

Also rq I don't know shit about vr games, I know the famous ones but what are some other ones that are slappin

[jade bane]

Man I hope consumer pcvr headsets use standardized cables in the future

[haughty thistle]

The Varjo Aero just uses bog standard VirtualLink for both the connector on it's link box and on the headset too. Same applies to the VR-3 and XR-3, tho with those a pair of VL link boxes and cables are needed because of their funky dual-display stuff they have going on...

[hallow cliff]

interesting

[jade bane]

I understand why they can't rn but maybe they'll find a way to send the information through a normal ass usb c cable someday or smthn

[haughty thistle]

They could. They just don't.

[hallow cliff]

i actually just found an article about valve terminating their virtual link adapter

[jade bane]

💀

[hallow cliff]

https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-virtuallink-adapter-canceled/

[jade bane]

It would save them money tho no

On r&d and manufacturing costs

[jade bane]

Whats virtual link?

[haughty thistle]

I mean, if the highest resolution consumer headset can use bog standard USB-C to carry a full on DP and USB signal all in one cable, then why can't the HP for example?

[hallow cliff]

the best port ever

[jade bane]

I'll take your word for it lol

[hallow cliff]

thunderbolt on crack

[haughty thistle]

Actually, the PSVR 2 also uses VL over USB-C for it's cable.

[hallow cliff]

DP 1.2, 3 amp power, usb 3.2 all in usb c

[jade bane]

Google immediately tells me it's "officially dead" lol

What happened to it if it's that good

[hallow cliff]

yeah, so only way to possibly get it to work on pc is with a 20 series card

[haughty thistle]

Not really? VL is just 2 lanes of DP 1.4 or 4 lanes of DP 1.2 combined with USB 3 and up to 27W of power...

[hallow cliff]

ah i got the numbers wrong

[jade bane]

How the hell is psvr2 able to run gt7 that smoothly with a res the headset has