development

[nocturne galleon]

yes for a research app, its not a big deal, which is why i preferred it.

[somber dome]

What's for you the best terminal emulator to do sysadmin stuff, mainly connecting to a stupid amount of different servers (a few thousand) via ssh
On windows and not windows terminal cuz I can't install it

[silk eagle]

A few thousand... and you don't have any management software for it already?

[midnight wind]

Uhh, you don't do such stuff manually

Ansible

[somber dome]

I mean not all at once

But I always connect to new servers

[midnight wind]

I just use openssh

[somber dome]

That's what I do yeah

[midnight wind]

Built right into windows, as an optional package

[somber dome]

With PowerShell

[wind horizon]

When I'm on windows I use WSL with Windows Terminal, I just set WSL as the default shell to open so when I open Windows Terminal I'm in a Linux env.

[upbeat bone]

When you clean install windows and forget to backup your bots code so you lose everything

const dumbass = require("MrGoldenGunz#0001");
if(dumbass) => {
alt + f4
}

[plush valley]

This is honestly the best option

You can even install telnet client through features

[hollow basalt]

And watch star wars

[trail remnant]

It's interesting how often newbies ask a question and the answer basically amounts to "That's the wrong question because you asked it because you're already planning to use a solution that's not going to work. Please change your mind or ask a different question."

I like helping people, but sometimes I just want to say: "Shhhhh, let them figure this out themselves. It'll be entertaining to watch."

[hollow basalt]

Sometimes, we need go watch them suffer to learn

[trail remnant]

So, I finally caved in and bought the Samsung G9 today.

I thought I was getting a really great gaming monitor, but the joke is on me, because now I'm currently preparing to write custom JavaScript to modify Vivaldi's behavior to remove the stupid freaking single pixel at the top of the screen.

One pixel might not seem important, but the one pixel border between selecting a tab and resizing the window changes the UX from an infinitely tall button to a microscopically small and frustrating to hit on a large monitor. (The mouse can't move outside the screen, so you can overshoot an infinite amount)

For those that don't understand the basics of UX, this is a classic must-read article:
https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/27/designing-for-people-who-have-better-things-to-do-with-their-lives-part-two/

It's actually quite telling that his rants about combo boxes are almost exactly how modern web UIs work. (Minus auto-scroll when moving to the bottom. Ubiquitous scroll wheels and touch screens solved that problem.)

[supple hull]

Well, I dumped off my coding challenge for this interview. I'd really like this job so I hope it goes well but regardless of what happens, I'm still gainfully employed.

[somber dome]

Well we do use Ansible (with awx) when we want to do things on multiple servers at once, for example to deploy some patches for log4j

But with my everyday tasks I may end up having to connect to maybe 20 different servers at the end of the day. And from day to day those servers are never the same. What I meant to say is that I can't really use profiles such as the one from putty/mobaxterm and such

I think I'll use conemu with openSSh and some maccros that I'll put right into my qmk firmware

It's a bit rude from you to assume people are newbied and phrasing things like you did. But I guess it's my fault because I didn't explain my need clearly at all

I'll just make macros that do "ssh user@", "sudo su -" and stuff like that 🤣

Speaking of Ansible and UX, we use AWX as a web gui for ansible and, wow, the UX is so bad
And I'm not talking about the numerous bugs i encounter ...

[fierce arrow]

hope you got/get it!

[silk eagle]

I just noticed this 😔

[nocturne galleon]

Gonna present the web app to the client / researcher tomorrow evening! its already 95% done both front and back end, wanted to meet first before tidying shit up + fixing minor issues

[cinder idol]

Anyone able to point me to some examples of displaying and hiding divs in time intervals?

I have these 4 divs that i'd like to have an traffic overlay populate over them. after 5-10 minutes

[midnight wind]

use js

change class of a div

[cinder idol]

id imagine something to the effect of```java
if(time % 5000){
document.getElementById('overlayDiv').displayNowOrder

very rusty on webdev

[hollow basalt]

Wierd that you have a speicifc 5m time window

[cinder idol]

just arbitrary

could be 2 or 10 or whatever

[hollow basalt]

1hr, take it or leave it

[silk eagle]

35 gregorian calendar minutes

[cinder idol]

12 parsects

[supple hull]

Thanks

[fierce arrow]

Actually a very good read, I sent it to my system analysis and design professor and we looked at it in class 😄

[supple hull]

Recruiter spam is getting really thirsty. Dude has hit me up four times for some ghost kitchen app start up.

I've never replied

[wind horizon]

That's why you should use git. lol

[silk eagle]

or backup your project folders to The Internet once a week or so

[midnight wind]

git for secrets...

https://tenor.com/view/donnovan-bennett-dj-bennett-dj-no-nope-gif-18077372

[silk eagle]

just hide them bro

1st letter of each line

[wind horizon]

Who mentioned git for secerts?

[midnight wind]

oh lol

I read it as "backup your bot codes"

yeah use git for source code

and a remote server

as for secrets I'm looking to deploying hashicorp vault locally

[wind horizon]

You can also use sealed secrets and push them to git then, if you are deploying to some place like k8s and have sealed secrets installed.

But I think both of those prob overly complex for a hobby bot that's not even in git. haha

For something like a hobby bot prob can just toss the creds into you password manager or something. lol

[midnight wind]

huh never heard of that

[wind horizon]

You encrypt the keys and then commit them to git, the k8s sealed secrets decrypts them and attaches them like a normal k8s secrets file. If your secrets rotate very often it's not as nice, unless you setup automation to keep updating it. But at that point prob easier to integrate with Vault. But for a lot of normal / avg apps that don't rotate very often it works pretty nice, esp for small teams since by using git it gives you the whole change control process and history for free.

[midnight wind]

yeah nice idea

anyone here used EdgeDB, seems interesting

[hot grotto]

Anyone here know anything about assembly and can help me with a little project im working on?

I need to do a code jump to addon to a mmo that has not been in business since 2011 and is defunctim adding more rows for buffs but client is defeined to L and R rows and i need to add 1 more row C for center in the XUI which i have done already

games client exe only has code for 2 rows

i need to add 3 rows either through dll file or at the end of the client exe

any ideas?

[lament bridge]

I am pretty sure thats scam 😄

[devout iris]

it is

dont click it

[supple hull]

Yeah, who's gonna click the random RAR

[lament bridge]

no, I don't I received such the last time and opened in VirtualBox

Net errors 😄

Anyway, I need some help please.

I am trying to handle somehow the error in case the user has no permission and that part works, but still the line 5-6 is triggered. To explain what I am talking about. is that the Discord Bot should not send that message, if the user turned off DMs on that server. The reason this is important to handle, otherwise it crashes the JS bot.

if(isValidDate(lastMessage.content) == true && lastMessage.content !== '>p predict') {
    //createDBMark(message.author.id)  
    cooldowns.set(message.author.id, Date.now() + cooldownTime); //this will set cooldown for week
    createDBCooldown(message.author.id, Date.now() + cooldownTime);
    message.reply("Prediction sent.")
    message.react(reactSmiley); //react with emoji to the issued commands
    const predictions = ["Prediction 1", "Prediction 2", "Prediction 3", "Prediction 4", "Prediction 5", "Prediction 6", "Prediction 7"]
    const randomprediction = predictions[Math.floor(Math.random() * predictions.length)];
      const prediction1 = new MessageEmbed()
        .setColor('#ff7518')
      .setAuthor({
        name: client.user.username,

        iconURL: client.user.displayAvatarURL()
      })
        .setTitle(reactSmiley + ` Your prediction for this week ` + lastMessage.author.username + `#` + lastMessage.author.discriminator)
      .setDescription(randomprediction);
      
      message.author.send({ embeds: [prediction1] }) // may throw three types of exceptions
      .catch (error => {
        if (error.code == 50007) {
          console.error('Permission issue while sending message to Discord user. (' + message.author.username + "#" + message.author.discriminator + ")");
        }
      })
    ...
  }

[supple hull]

I just had the most surrealist call with a client. It's a meeting of several people and we're doing UX work for them and refactoring their homepage to have a clearer narrative, more pizazz, clear call-to-actions blah blah blah. I got pulled in as they wanted to have us develop it out and it's a wordpress site. I work with a lot of stacks React/React Native, CMSes headless and the classics like Drupal and Wordpress. No biggie.

The lady who's their internal developer was like "Yeah, this is wordpress so it's template based but so much lives in the database". Italics on points of inflections. I was trying to ask about integrations. Turns out total cowboy operation. I think they're using SFTP without any dev environments..... and they want me to hand over the homepage revision in CSS + JS + HTML and not actually create any custom gutenberg blocks or plugins or templates.

[lament bridge]

LOL

So you would need to rewrite everything from zero based on the CSS, JS and HTML

[supple hull]

Yep

Totally insane

So I'll just write up vanilla ES6 + Scss and an assload of notes

My operating theory is the developer saw our designs and was like "OH SHIT" and punted it to us so she could see how we did it and copy and paste her way to victory.

And she's also protecting her turf.

I'm not coming for her job, I'm gainfully employed

[lament bridge]

Do you use framework for CSS or just write yourself?

[supple hull]

I'll use whatever they do which is I think bullshit css

Normally I'd just use Bootstrap grids

Personally big fan of that as you get the grid system that everyone has seen without all the baggage.

[lament bridge]

Worst kind of customers

• Not willing to cooperate under any circumstances and/or open to use new things.
• Insecure

😄

[supple hull]

• know it alls

Anyhow, totally insane balls. She did say the "NPMs" so I guess she knows about npm install which is a point in her favor and use the word sass so probably knows just enough to use scss imports.

[lament bridge]

I know about npm install but no idea about scss imports lol

[supple hull]

but it was "NPMs" with the S, which sounds like me when I say "internets" or "PHPs" or "Bootstraps" as a joke.

Technically though it does make sense

[lament bridge]

Well the only time I use any npm when I need something, but I don't think I ever used any scss

[supple hull]

Best quote though was "So much of it lives in the database and not the theme".

That was when I asked about us integrating our changes into their code base

My boss and my technical director and project manager were all slacking each other like "OMG"

[lament bridge]

XD

Well that makes sense in case of WordPress

I ditched WP long ago

I agree for dynamic site it is easy, but whenever its not, fuck it 😄

[supple hull]

I both love/hate wordpress. From an end user standpoint, it's pretty great.

From a developer stand point, it's a PHP CMS site so there's all the nonsense you'd have with that world but there's also an incredible amount of community support and even since I started using docker (man, like 7 years ago?) it's taking the pain out of environments.

The interesting thing is you'd think 2022 everyone would want custom react apps but nah, Wordpress is still alive and well, if not even more so.

[hot grotto]

i prefer normal php , none of that special crap they do to make it complicated

[midnight wind]

it just supports so much

Using wordpress for a client website rn

thinking of moving over to using wordpress to generate a static site, as there is like nothing dynamic on that website to speed up perf

[supple hull]

I've been thinking that too, I have my personal blog on jekyll but its kinda a pain in the ass to deal with at this point seeing as I have a few truly massive posts and I stopped using markdown and just went to HTML. One post still gets about 20k pageviews a month since its basically the guide for Apple's old Mac Pro towers.

I have this totally dumb setup where I have a jekyll plugin to push changes at the CLI via.... sftp

[midnight wind]

I've been wanting to setup a personal blog, def something static. Maybe hugo? idk

[supple hull]

Wordpress would be an improvement over jekyll as I'd be writing and not writing html

I want to try one of those React based static site generators

[midnight wind]

never done anything with react

I dislike frontend

[supple hull]

I'm a UX developer so I'm basically front end

It's funny though as my blog is HYPER minimalist.

I'd really suggest starting the blog in some capacity. I've been at it since 2013 as I figured I should have a visible footprint since I'm not really doing GitHub stuff, nor am I active on LinkedIn and I don't use other social medias.

[lament bridge]

Jimbeamic!

[supple hull]

9 years later, I'm kinda amazed I get about 50k-75k pageviews a month.

I only post 2-3 times a month

It's all tech stuff, just dumb fixes or how tos

[midnight wind]

yeah, I'm mostly learning about infra, networking, all that jazz

been getting into kubernetes, learning some golang now

[supple hull]

It's made me a better writer although discord wouldn't make you think it

[midnight wind]

I have so many things I want to do

hard to choose

[lament bridge]

That's life

You wanna be this, you wanna do this, but you can't do all

[midnight wind]

yep

[lament bridge]

Except!

If you are a reverse engineer. You can reverse time and do something else.

[trail remnant]

Asking questions is a skill. You can be an absolutely amazing developer, but have no idea how to ask a good question. That can give a false impression that you're a newbie when you have experience. (Although I'd argue the most important skill any developer has is communication, which is a multiplier on other skill levels. Low communication skills translates to low development skills.) You can also have different skillsets. Just because someone can write an amazing webserver or app doesn't mean they know anything about operations. I'd be a newbie in front-end or app development, but I've got a lot more experience than the average developer does in Ops. The way you phrased your Ops question told me that regardless of how much experience you have as a developer, you're still a newbie when it comes to Ops. The way you asked your question and the information you gave made it very clear that you have very little Ops experience.

Do you want to know how to solve your problem? I'll give you the real answer, but you aren't going to like it: Literally don't waste time on that problem. If you're routinely logging into specific servers, and you have a thousand servers, you're doing something seriously wrong with operations. Ops at scale is different than Ops with a dozen servers. When you scale up to a thousand servers, things should be automated enough and consistent enough that you aren't worrying about logging into specific servers. You should be updating config files and letting your automation take care of rolling restarts. Developers should be using the same process, so there's no unexpected configurations on servers, and there's nothing that can't be handled through automation. Dev or Ops manually doing things is a great way to make mistakes and create unstable configurations that break the rest of your automation. At scale, Ops is automation or bust. Logging into servers is for people with few enough servers that they can count them on their fingers. You asked your question because somewhere along the line, someone at your workplace was inexperienced and made some really bad Ops decisions. (Possibly with contributions from bad management decisions) With a thousand servers, you shouldn't be manually logging into servers often enough to care about being efficient when you use SSH, so the whole question is still the wrong question. Once again, you literally shouldn't be logging into specific servers often enough to have your problem when you're scaling to a thousand servers. I'd love to have a more in-depth discussion about Ops at scale, and all the complexities of scaling, but I've already rambled on enough.

On a more general topic, it's upsetting that so many people interpret my factual statements as value judgements. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie. We were all newbies at one point in time. Why do so many people believe that not knowing things is bad? Not having experience doesn't make you a bad person. It just means you need to spend time learning things you don't know. It's not quite as endemic in our industry as other professions, but programmers can have haughty attitudes and direct at lot of nastiness at less experienced people. It's especially ironic, because our industry has way more ageism than most other industries. The art of being a programmer: "Don't be old, but have a lot of experience." It's sad. Our industry needs more mentors and a bigger focus on teaching if we're going to create a healthy work environment in the long term. Admitting when we're inexperienced and not taking offense when we lack skills is a big part of that.

[trail remnant]

I'd call this more "horrifying" than "surreal". It sounds like a complete nightmare. Anyone who talks utters the phrase "it's mostly in the database" is doomed for failure. I had the unfortunate displeasure of working with a set of "dynamic" webpages where every piece of content displayed on the webpages was referenced in the database, by a unique index. It was an interesting experience.

Anyways, I think I'm done working on the bad UX "browser doesn't put the tab buttons at the literal top pixel" problem now. I dug deep into the Vivaldi debugging tools, which are awesome, and found that the resize feature is likely being implemented in the window manager code. It's not even in the win32 API, since I modified a few properties like WS_THICKFRAME and although I could stop the window from being resizable, it never removed the interactable resize elements. I maliciously took at hack saw to every single event manager in the Vivaldi rendered window, and none of them disabled the interactable resize border.

Vivaldi uses the chromium engine to render a custom webpage with the browser UI elements. That means you can change almost anything about the UI, if you're technically savvy enough, and don't care about having your customizations break every update. Unfortunately, I think the piece I want to remove isn't part of the webpage UI. The resize border is probably being handled by the underlying custom OS code layer that sets up the window to display the chromium webpage that is the browser UI. That code would be platform specific, and from my work Laptop, I know that the Mac behavior is different than the Windows behavior. That's literally the only piece of the browser UI that I can't change, and it's the only part of the UI that I want to change.

For context, on Mac, if you're using tabs on the side of a non-maximized window, even though the OS displays the resize cursor on the window border, you can still click on that window border to select a tab. (Can't use the top on OSx, for obvious reasons)
On Windows, even though you can move the tabs to the very top of a non-maximized window, you can only interact with the resize border, not the actual tabs below your mouse. (See picture)

[wind horizon]

I think they fit into their distinct categories well, WordPress or similar CMS are some of the best options for regular websites where a company needs to also easily make changes / updates to it. In these cases the website often services more as a information resource or the site features fit well into a standard scope of features, like having users and comments, that have high reusability.

Going with a full custom solution built out with something like React makes the most sense for a web app, something that is usually more feature rich and has lots of business logic. In this case often times the app / site is the product or it fulfills a roles / service in the business.

If you were to take a normal website for a business and build it custom in React with something like Node BE it'd prob cost nearly 10-100x the cost of WordPress. lol

[wind horizon]

Could you explain a bit more, not sure I fully understand the question. It sounds like you are saying lines 5-6 shouldn't run, so you mean this if statement should be false but is resolving as true?
if(isValidDate(lastMessage.content) == true && lastMessage.content !== '>p predict')

[next cipher]

yep i am in the unfortunate situation of maintaining a site that is a fully custom backend, react frontend & cms for historical reasons... that really should have been a WordPress site

it's wasted probably hundreds of hours of my time over the last 6 months and therefore probably tens of thousands of my employer's dollars

i can't complain too much about getting paid but ... it's not exactly intellectually stimulating

[hollow basalt]

Stimulate it yourself

[plush valley]

I was just digging through the win UI API and XAML API

It's amazing how much you can now customize

Basically every element of an application can be modified to look different now

[next cipher]

oh i am don't worry 😏

[plush valley]

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/develop/title-bar?tabs=winui3#title-bar-content-and-drag-regions

Found it

This should've been defined.

[nocturne galleon]

try setInterval()?

[lament bridge]

In short the issue is that when the bot has no permission to send DM to the user, it will still send the Prediction message in the channel saying its sent, while in reality it is not sent.

[lament bridge]

If there is a JSON in a certain SQL table, can I filter for speci values? (In SQL syntax)

EG: and I am looking for the value of Name and Version.

{
    "arch": "x86_64",
    "name": "Debian",
    "version": "9.9",
    "version_major": "9",
    "version_minor": "9",
    "family": "deb",
}

[cinder idol]

unsure if anyone has used cloud9 from aws before but I have a 10g space but it looks like nearly all of it is used up

and i just made it

anyone know a way to reduce whatever dev/xvda1 is?

[hollow basalt]

did you built your project and/or installed your depedencies

[cinder idol]

I just created a new instance/environment whatever aws put in there by default is there

[hollow basalt]

linux

[cinder idol]

yep

[hollow basalt]

yep

[cinder idol]

I'm gonna try resizing from 10-20 gb and see what happens

[hollow basalt]

increasing the size

[cinder idol]

ayy it worked this time

[hollow basalt]

yes

[cinder idol]

but im still alarmed at the 8.1gb of used space. No idea what is there or how to clean that

[hollow basalt]

linux

[cinder idol]

oh do you mean thats the actual operating system?

[hollow basalt]

it's still a vm somewhere

it's not running on unicorn powder

[cinder idol]

ohhhhhh

I just assumed the 10gb of space didnt count toward the os

so that makes sense now

[hollow basalt]

well the tutorial might not state that [storage usage]

i'll need to search if they put it somewhere deep in the documentation which they do sometimes

[trail remnant]

This is pretty cool, that they give developers the ability to customize everything, but they also have a clear design language to help developers fit their apps into the standard OS format. Except for the part where apparently no one read the documentation and actually did it. Check the official docs, where they say the window title bar should change color when the app is focused. Except Discord, Spotify, and Vivaldi all don't do that. Steam changes the color of the interactable text, but it's so subtle that it's almost impossible to notice unless you're paying attention to it. I guess this explains why I've ended up focused on the wrong app a lot more in the last few years than I did when I started using the computer.

[plush valley]

Heh... Heres a fun one:

TPM was required since 2016... no one read those docs either

[fierce arrow]

I find that the tabs on the brave browser are pretty thin

[plush valley]

The MS Docs are basically the BEST

Out of everything ive ever seen

[trail remnant]

Unfortunately, the Windows docs, while impressive, only highlight that this problem is well above my pay grade. The docs say:

Write custom code to calculate and set drag rectangles, including when the window size changes.
Which is exactly my problem. The custom code is not part of the user-editable Vivaldi UI. The custom code is part of the internal Windows rendering code, and outside of bithacking the binary, I don't have access to that code.

But yeah, MD Docs outshine everything else. It's why I prefer to use the Microsoft option if it's widely available. The time I save by having high quality documentation is worth any other complaints I've found.

(But, use your brain when picking a technology. Even if I think PowerShell is objectively better than Bash, you'd be wrong to pick PowerShell for automating Linux server tasks, and there are lots of failed MS technologies like Silverlight, that never really got off the ground. Don't ever blindly pick a technology.)

[fierce arrow]

Does anyone know an alternative to MinGW ? the installer has been broken for a while and I need it so I can run C in visual studio code

[midnight wind]

Wsl and gcc?

[fierce arrow]

How do I install them?

My professor told us to just install MinGW and it does it for us

[midnight wind]

Wsl comes in windows, just have to enable/install it. Look it up

[fierce arrow]

Oh ok thanks

[midnight wind]

I would use Ubuntu image

It's basically Linux on windows

Then you install gcc and use it to build

[fierce arrow]

Could I run it on a virtual machine?

I already use VMware

[midnight wind]

I guess

But wsl is better

It's Linux but you can easily use it on window's file system

[nocturne galleon]

wsl (2)

[hollow basalt]

wsl (3)

[wind horizon]

wsl (4)

[trail remnant]

It's odd, because I'd typically recommend Docker for Windows over WSL.

However, the last time I seriously investigated WSL vs Docker was at least two years ago in a super locked down corporate environment, so I'd trust the everyone else in this case.

[hollow basalt]

at this point, they are identical in some regards

[trail remnant]

Both running on an internal VM?

[hollow basalt]

clarification WSL 2

wsl 1 is a different implementation

but yeah. wsl2 and docker in hyper-v vm

so....

you could make docker container act like WSL

i think the advantage is if you have tons of docker containers, atleast they share

[fierce arrow]

I just spent a long time individually typing out states alphabetically for a drop down list in html and my friend just told me you can literally find a premade list online

[midnight wind]

Bruh

[hollow basalt]

Bruh

[silk eagle]

you can find a list of anything online

just put "github gist" at the end of your search

or "raw text"

[hollow basalt]

🤔

[silk eagle]

this is a good representation of bing being better for tech searches than google

[hollow basalt]

how is that better

[silk eagle]

bro it gives u things

[hollow basalt]

that's a bad argument

[silk eagle]

search a problem on google and bing, bing will give more stackoverflow stuff

boom problem solved gotta use x86 literally 5 seconds

[wind horizon]

TL;DR for my long post: WSL 2 is great, WSL 2 + Docker desktop is awesome, and WSL 2 + Docker Desktop + vscode wsl extension is amazing. 😆

Docker desktop + WSL 2 is a great Windows dev setup. Check some of the great benefits of running your docker with WSL 2: https://docs.docker.com/desktop/windows/wsl/

Pretty much Docker default relies on Hyper-V to spin up VMs and is a bit slow, if you use WSL 2 integration it runs the containers inside the managed VM for WSL 2 and is very fast.

Going from plain docker on Windows to docker in WSL 2 is actually really noticeable with speed and you get native control over docker inside WSL. So you can run things like docker compose scripts inside WSL shell. Connect something like vscode to WSL using the wsl extension and you have awesome setup where your GUI is Windows but your dev env is Linux. Getting the best of both world.

If you want to see the whole break down MS has a good post here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-versions

TL;DR for the MS doc above:

• Much faster - claim up to 20x faster IO
• Full Linux kernel provided by MS (patched by Windows update)
• Uses a fully managed VM
• Still has that easy to access / mounted Windows file system, so you can get to your Windows files. Although accessing files on Windows or Windows accessing files on WSL is a tad slower now in WSL 2 due to the more isolated nature of the VM, however I don't think it was ever meant to be used extensively and more so as a convenience.

[midnight wind]

Bruh, this C++ class teacher is saying

using namespace std;``` is the same "sentence" which is why you don't need a semicolon after the include 🤦

[hollow basalt]

sentence
dead

[hollow basalt]

teach him properly

[silk eagle]

sentence python doesnt require semicolons bro (implication here is that python = english)

and sentences end with periods

[topaz flare]

I have yet to find a good use case to use for WSL for cloud dev, I need an excuse to use it ):

[next cipher]

are you paying for this class?? i hope not

get a refund

[midnight wind]

HS pays for it

[topaz flare]

not too bad then

[silk eagle]

you correct them and they'll say "Do you have a degree????"

I wish that I had multiple degrees in HS so i could be like 😏 why yes I do

[topaz flare]

those who validate one's skills based on whether or not they have a degree are usually losers from what I've observed. I'm talking about those who use "I have a degree in x so..." or "do you have a degree in this field?" for any argument or challenge.

[silk eagle]

id be more intimidated by 10 years real-world experience than 10 years of getting a PhD (except for physical sciences n whatnot, like physics, medicine, etc)

[topaz flare]

My employer historically hired only from the top business and tech schools in each country they do business in. But with modern tech, they have failed several times in the past several years, so the focus has shifted to hiring based on skillsets and ability to deliver.

[plush valley]

I say this alot myself. The 15 yr old hobby computer geek can do more than the Cocky Postgrad thinking hes worth a shit load

[topaz flare]

Academia is 5-10 years behind us tech-wise, so the downside with hiring from top schools is that the students are solely focused on their schoolwork and do not explore outside technologies...usually. The talent pool is so small for what we do, and I would say more often than not, individuals with the skill set we are looking for do not have degrees

[upbeat fiber]

not me who has tried to setup whmcs for the past 2 hours and still failed 😦

[topaz flare]

aye its all part of the learning process

[upbeat fiber]

 
bot.channels.cache.get(botConfig.ticketkanaal)
  .bulkDelete(1)
//--------------------------
    var rating = Math.floor(Math.random() * 100) + 1;
  const embed1 = new discord.MessageEmbed()
  .setColor(botConfig.color)
  .setDescription("System starting....")

  bot.channels.cache.get(botConfig.ticketkanaal)
  .send(embed1).then(msg=>

    setInterval(function() {
            var embedMessageee3e = new Discord.MessageEmbed()
                .setColor(botConfig.color)
                .setTitle("Ticket Systeem")
                .setDescription("\nWil je een ticket openen?\nKlik dan op de **(:tickets:)** emoji hieronder!\n\n**LET OP:** Denk na over je vraag voordat je een ticket opent.")
                .setThumbnail(botConfig.thumbnail)
                .setFooter(botConfig.footer, botConfig.thumbnail).setTimestamp()
            message.channel.send(embedMessageee3e).then(message => {
                message.react(":tickets:")
            })
        }
    }
})

bot.on("messageReactionAdd", async (reaction, member) => {
    if (member.bot) return;
        if (reaction.emoji.name == ":tickets:") {
            if (reaction.message.embeds[0]) {
            if (reaction.message.embeds[0].title == "Ticket Systeem") {
                return openTicketReaction(member, "ticket", reaction)
        }
        }
    }

Sombody help? it doesnt run idk why

[midnight wind]

an error would help

[upbeat fiber]

SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list
    at Object.compileFunction (node:vm:352:18)
    at wrapSafe (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1026:15)
    at Module._compile (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1061:27)
    at Object.Module._extensions..js (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1151:10)
    at Module.load (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:975:32)
    at Function.Module._load (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:822:12)
    at Function.executeUserEntryPoint [as runMain] (node:internal/modules/run_main:77:12)
    at node:internal/main/run_main_module:17:47
Node.js v17.5.0

[midnight wind]

well there it is

missing )

read your errors before asking for help

[hollow basalt]

i wonder why these devs put error messages if nobody would read them

[upbeat fiber]

me2

its just fills space

[wind horizon]

If you use an IDE it'll likely give you errors for missing syntax like that before you run the code. 👍

[upbeat fiber]

OMFG

SyntaxError: Unexpected token ')'
    at Object.compileFunction (node:vm:352:18)
    at wrapSafe (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1026:15)
    at Module._compile (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1061:27)
    at Object.Module._extensions..js (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1151:10)
    at Module.load (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:975:32)
    at Function.Module._load (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:822:12)
    at Function.executeUserEntryPoint [as runMain] (node:internal/modules/run_main:77:12)
    at node:internal/main/run_main_module:17:47

imma about to punch my monitor

[hollow basalt]

doubt that an IDE would help if he doesn't even read

[upbeat fiber]

now its saying unexpected

[midnight wind]

wrong place then

[hollow basalt]

bet he put it in the end just cause

[upbeat fiber]

it was the only logical place

[hollow basalt]

for you yes, but node disagrees

[midnight wind]

also

different callback styles..

[wind horizon]

Here is your issue spot, see how much an IDE can help hint you to the right spot visually. lol

[midnight wind]

those indent lines are a lifesaver sometimes

so much indentation tho

[hollow basalt]

callback hell it is

[wind horizon]

You can see where your curly brace is associated with the anon function you wrote, but then you got 2 other closing ones and what are they for? Maybe you used to have a block for the function, but then changed it to implicit return later and that's how you got the issue?

Notice how your arrow function in the .then is implicit return (no curly brace), so there is nothing to close there.

[midnight wind]

one thing I liked about js was async/await

[upbeat fiber]

im so confued

[midnight wind]

avoided callback hell

[hollow basalt]

but i like promises

[wind horizon]

async/await still uses promises

[midnight wind]

async/await are just sugar on top of promises

[upbeat fiber]

that should execute that

[hollow basalt]

yea but I meant, the beauty of promises is callback hell

[midnight wind]

well yeah.

[hollow basalt]

return a new promise when a promise returns, beautiful

[midnight wind]

but you have nested callbacks

so you have to figure out your () and {} at the end

[upbeat fiber]

i dont udnerstand shit about Javascript

lmao

it confuesed me more and more

[hollow basalt]

() {} is not js exclusive

[upbeat fiber]

i know

but espacially in JS it confuses me

[wind horizon]

Hmm best thing I can suggest is stop trying to write this bot and maybe go do some basic JS videos?

[midnight wind]

like none of this is js exclusive

[hollow basalt]

the easiest excuse is to blame the language

[midnight wind]

perhaps promises but callbacks still exist in most languages

[hollow basalt]

anonymous classes in java for a sweet callback-like ugly code

[upbeat fiber]

i mean i can do it

[hollow basalt]

are you sure

[upbeat fiber]

but im not great in it

[wind horizon]

I mean go for it, but if you are struggling with basic stuff like closure I think even just 1 day on some basic videos could help you a lot. You don't need to become a pro, but just a few videos can really help a lot and reduce your frustration.

[hollow basalt]

you don't need to become a pro, you just need to learn to read

[upbeat fiber]

omg

i think i just fking found it

[slate frigate]

You know, a good IDE solves closure problems

[wind horizon]

So I don't know the rest of you code, so can't answer that but your closure issue is that you need to remove those extra } braces and then close the ) out.

Like this:

bot.channels.cache
  .get(botConfig.ticketkanaal)
  .send(embed1)
  .then((msg) =>
    setInterval(() => {
      var embedMessageee3e = new Discord.MessageEmbed()
        .setColor(botConfig.color)
        .setTitle("Ticket Systeem")
        .setDescription(
          "\nWil je een ticket openen?\nKlik dan op de **(:tickets:)** emoji hieronder!\n\n**LET OP:** Denk na over je vraag voordat je een ticket opent."
        )
        .setThumbnail(botConfig.thumbnail)
        .setFooter(botConfig.footer, botConfig.thumbnail)
        .setTimestamp();
      message.channel.send(embedMessageee3e).then((message) => {
        message.react(":tickets:");
      });
    })
  );

[hollow basalt]

bot.channels.cache
  .get(botConfig.ticketkanaal)
  .send(embed1)
  .then((msg) =>
    setInterval(() => {
      var embedMessageee3e = new Discord.MessageEmbed()
        .setColor(botConfig.color)
        .setTitle("Javascript tutorial")
        .setDescription(
          "You should watch basic javascript videos like glamdring said"
        )
        .setThumbnail(botConfig.thumbnail)
        .setFooter(botConfig.footer, botConfig.thumbnail)
        .setTimestamp();
      message.channel.send(embedMessageee3e).then((message) => {
        message.react(":thumbsup:");
      });
    })
  );

[wind horizon]

However why we have an implicit return of a set interval that is never assigned to variable for the interval id, that I have no idea. 😆

[upbeat fiber]

im using the pterodactyl build in IDE

[midnight wind]

why

[hollow basalt]

why

[midnight wind]

that's like, bruh

use a local dev environment

[upbeat fiber]

cuz im to lazy to download the whole bot and put it on my localhost

[midnight wind]

or like vscode to a remote server works too

[slate frigate]

Yeah, like I said. A good IDE.

[midnight wind]

git..

[wind horizon]

Never even heard of pterodactyl lol

[midnight wind]

game server manger thing

[wind horizon]

oh...

[upbeat fiber]

its a opensource game panel thingy

[midnight wind]

yeah it doesn't have a language server

so it can't tell you syntax errors

[wind horizon]

Well if it doesn't catch something as basic as closure issues I wouldn't use it, sounds more like just an editor with syntax highlighting / color support. lol

[upbeat fiber]

someone should program it as a addon tbh

[slate frigate]

Uuuuuugh, i just looked up pterodactyl's technology stack. They dirty up my beautiful golang with dirty php

[plush valley]

https://www.pufferpanel.com/
Another alternative to Pterodactyl

[hollow basalt]

someone should just learn to use git

[midnight wind]

@slate frigate also, been learning a bit of golang for this project I'm doing. How do you deal with all the

if err != nil{
  //whatever error handeling
}```

[upbeat fiber]

idk if i would suggest it to my hosting they would do it xD

cause im hosting my DC Bot by Newbienode

[midnight wind]

why I just use a VPS usually

[plush valley]

Thats basically the generic Error Catch found in most other langs

[wind horizon]

What is newbiewnode. lol

[upbeat fiber]

it expensiver then just a bot host

[hollow basalt]

expensiver
a what

[midnight wind]

yeah, but with like js, I could catch multiple in a try/catch

[upbeat fiber]

yeah

i pay like 75 cents a month

[wind horizon]

I host my bot for free on GCP Cloud Functions 😛

[upbeat fiber]

for my hosting

[midnight wind]

yeah then just use local dev, then like use github/ whatever git server, to get code on server

[wind horizon]

First 2 million calls per month are free.

[hollow basalt]

not the price, was talking about the word

[upbeat fiber]

oh

[hollow basalt]

how much is it for the API

[plush valley]

GCP
eww

[wind horizon]

Nothing

[wind horizon]

Can do same on AWS Lambda 🤷‍♂️

[hollow basalt]

I use AWS, the functions are free but for it to be actually usable. need to pay for API gateway for example

[slate frigate]

Depends on the project size. Larger projects I'll write a special error handling function that'll take care of any logging or panic recovey. Mid size projects I usually just print to stdout. Small stuff? I just use _ instead of assigning the error to a variable

[plush valley]

I use AWS over everything personally but thats just me

[wind horizon]

Oh you only need to pay for an API gateway on GCP if you need those extra features. If you just need basic calls from pub/sub, web hook, etc then you don't need it.

[hollow basalt]

AWS brother

[slate frigate]

Linode best node!

[hollow basalt]

yeaa, but still need to pay for something. that's why they can make function calls free cause the actual features are paid

[wind horizon]

I have code on both, use the free tier from them each. Like a cloud pirate getting free compute everywhere I can. 🏴‍☠️ 😆

[midnight wind]

OVH..

[plush valley]

Digitalocean

[plush valley]

So you Start

[midnight wind]

riding my $100 in credits

[hollow basalt]

i have AWS, AZURE, LINODE

what else do i need

[plush valley]

I have AWS, Azure, Colocated Machines, The ones in my House, annnnnd thats it for me.

[wind horizon]

I pay nothing for the cloud functions, gcp storage, or pub sub. All have very big free tiers. (ofc it's personal side projects not business apps haha)

[hollow basalt]

you have Rouing CLoud

[hollow basalt]

i don't know GCP, how could you use functions for a webapp though? what service do they offer

[plush valley]

Google App Engine

[hollow basalt]

boooo

[slate frigate]

I also like linode's api. It was pretty simple for me to write some automation for some stuff

[plush valley]

https://developers.google.com/learn/topics/functions Also this

[hollow basalt]

that's lambda, but how could you actually use it for a webapp

[wind horizon]

They execute some code, so you can have them do almost anything. For example you can create REST end points and deploy them to Cloud Functions and have them handle all your API calls.

With the Discord bot for LTT store I have one that runs every 5 minutes, grabs the old store state from GCP storage bucket, compares the data, pushes messages to Discord, then saves the new store state.

For an normal web app you may connect to DB and do something on a webhook etc.

[plush valley]

https://cloud.google.com/run Another one

[wind horizon]

Usually though I'd scale a app on App Engine or Cloud Run and then use Cloud Functions for more so processing specific events off a pub/sub or some special use case web hooks.

[hollow basalt]

expensive?

[wind horizon]

unless it was big and complex, then k8s I guess lol

[hollow basalt]

probably stick to aws myself

[wind horizon]

They are super similar

[plush valley]

No idea personally

[upbeat fiber]

//------------------------------
    if (message.content.toLowerCase().startsWith("!reactionticket")) {
        var botAvatar = bot.user.displayAvatarURL()
        if (message.member.roles.cache.has(botConfig.ticketRole)) {
            message.delete()
            var embedMessageee3e = new Discord.MessageEmbed()
                .setColor(botConfig.color)
                .setTitle("Ticket Systeem")
                .setDescription("\nWil je een ticket openen?\nKlik dan op de **(🎟️)** emoji hieronder!\n\n**LET OP:** Denk na over je vraag voordat je een ticket opent.")
                .setThumbnail(botConfig.thumbnail)
                .setFooter(botConfig.footer, botConfig.thumbnail).setTimestamp()
            message.channel.send(embedMessageee3e).then(message => {
                message.react("🎟️")
            })
        }
    }
})

bot.on("messageReactionAdd", async (reaction, member) => {
    if (member.bot) return;
        if (reaction.emoji.name == "🎟️") {
            if (reaction.message.embeds[0]) {
            if (reaction.message.embeds[0].title == "Ticket Systeem") {
                return openTicketReaction(member, "ticket", reaction)
        }
        }
    }

fixed it

[wind horizon]

Huh warship didn't like something I said lol

[midnight wind]

like usual

[upbeat fiber]

who? me?

[wind horizon]

No

I was explaining Cloud Run, but it deleted my message lol

[upbeat fiber]

ah

[hollow basalt]

cause that's cloud

[wind horizon]

Cloud run scales your your container based on a trigger such as http. So no traffic it's 0, request comes it spins up the container and scales up for more traffic as needed.

Unless it has changed cloud run used to have time limit on how long it can run, it's meant to focus more on micro services and such.

Cloud Run can feel a lot like a container version of Cloud Functions in a sense I guess.

I haven't used it much though, only a little year ago when old company was considering it. We ended up not using it and just stick with putting the app in our existing k8s cluster.

[slate frigate]

@wind horizon you'd have to keep up consistent usage, or else initial access time would suck

[hollow basalt]

keeping it hot

[wind horizon]

Most cold starts are not an issue these days, but it used to be an issue with things couple years ago.

If you have insanely sensitive response times then it could still be an issue.. Not sure if Cloud Run lets you set an always active min. App Engine used to let you do that, you could set 1 always active instance for example, so it'd never scale to 0 but could still scale up.

[topaz flare]

Not sure about GCP on this one but I know most CSPs you can have pre-warmed functions

Or can always set a trigger to warm 🤷‍♂️

We built an ELMA solution utilizing serverless services and it processes over 50TB of data a day using functions

[wind horizon]

Yeah and lot of functions now take under 300ms to warm, so really for most uses cases it's fine. Since if it's actively used it'll be warm and maybe just go cold at night and warm again in the AM.

[topaz flare]

Yeah and if there’s a timeout for some reason there’s always retries

[wind horizon]

Yup and so long as you are aware of that possible warm time you can just make the judgment call if it's a deal breaker and work around it. But I think for many uses cases it no longer is.

Serverless functions triggered by pub/sub in response to events like file uploads and such is such an amazing use case for it.

[topaz flare]

Our clients are global 100 and gov/financial and even they can accept the warm up times

Cold start…whatever

[wind horizon]

Few years ago I worked on a system that clients sent files in SFTP, so we piped those into bucket storage and then when event was published for new file it'd kick off a function to process the CSV and insert the data into the DB.

Funny thing was we were processing prob about a TB or so per a month, so not insane data but still a lot. It hardly cost anything, it was under the 2M invocation free tier, but we had to pay a little for the run time. But still was cheaper than running a full time instance and it could scale up when big batches came in instead of getting backlogged.

[topaz flare]

We did this solution where we had an object store, sort the data and throw it into a new bucket, then that had a trigger to another function that transformed the data according to config “objects “ in our non relational DB, then used AWS glue and Athena to allow queries of the data, and then used various visualization tools to visualize the data

Was like 1/20th the cost of something like splunk

[wind horizon]

I have to work with splunk today and not a big fan. haha

[topaz flare]

Serverless is where it’s at, unless you need an app to run 24/7 and it’s legacy software

It’s so easy to go past limits, and nobody knows how to manage it

We have done well architected reviews and every time it seems, the client uses splunk and hates it

[wind horizon]

We have the enterprise one where our ops team manages it, runs in the cloud still just not the hosted version by Splunk. So we have no "limits" in place on us, but as it is they can't retain all the data we need due to costs still, idk how pricing works wonder if maybe issue is too much data = more instances / license needed. 🤷‍♂️

Also the interface is just annoying

lol

Also their APM is eh, I liked DataDog and New Relic APM a lot more.

I mean traces work fine in Splunk, but the UI / interface for following them is just not that well done.

[topaz flare]

We enjoy datadog and dynatrace

And a lot of these tools work well with pipelines, splunk can be iffy

Do you use terraform much?

[wind horizon]

Not now, but did at my old job.

[trail remnant]

You slowly decide that "clean code" is a worthless endeavor to try and maintain in GoLang, and you eventually give up and accept that Go code will always be ugly and annoyingly verbose because they force almost every single function to have an error return value.

[true path]

Possibly anyone on here with CSS knowledge?

Nevermind, figured it out myself

[trail remnant]

lol

[wind horizon]

Just to mess with people you should use a class name that is very misleading.

.visible {
  display: none;
}

[silk eagle]

to make it a more subtle troll, you can name it visibility

[trail remnant]

Why do you hate humanity?

I mean, I'm laughing, but that's horrible.

[wind horizon]

I bet you like 80% chance I can get it through the PR review without someone noticing, just need to have enough other code changes there to act like noise.

So many ppl hate CSS and hardly even look at CSS in PRs. 😆

I won't really merge it, but I'm going todo it for fun. If I get approvals than I'll point it out for a laugh and push a change fixing it. lol

[trail remnant]

Make sure to push the change with the next PR, so it looks like you made a silly mistake and caught it later.

If you make the change in the same PR, it looks maybe a bit more suspicious?

[fierce arrow]

Anyone here with experience, what Linux distro's are most commonly used?

Probably the wrong channel to ask

[cloud knot]

depends on the task. Ubuntu, Debian, RHEL are the usual top dogs

(RHEL includes CentOS in my mind)

[trail remnant]

For Docker, alpine Linux is pretty popular. It's a slimmed down distro great for saving on space. Usually the other Docker preferred distro are Ubuntu and Debian.

Arch Linux is not exactly newbie friendly, but it's the base for a lot of other distros.

[lament bridge]

I have a code here that supposed to only work if the user is not in the database.
https://pastebin.com/S62WwdPL

But for some reason I do not receive "Sorry. User exist in the database" at all and rest of the commands just being executed whilst I am in the database.

[silk eagle]

might be that in if checkuser(message.author.id) == message.author.id , checkuser(message.author.id) is returning a string or something

[wind horizon]

if (checkuser(message.author.id) == message.author.id ) {

In your code checkuser is returning a promise, this is an async call so your if statement is just seeing a promise not the actual response. You could promise chain it, but in this case an async function is prob best.

client.on("messageCreate", async message => {
  if (message.author.bot) return;
 
  if (message.content.indexOf(config.prefix) !== 0) return;
  const args = message.content.slice(config.prefix.length).trim().split(/ +/g);
  const command = args.shift().toLowerCase();
 
  if(command === 'predict') {
    //const cooldown = cooldowns.get(message.author.id); // this will check the local cooldown
    //console.log(cooldown) 
    //const dbcooldown = getDBCooldown(message.author.id)
    const user = await checkuser(message.author.id)
    if (user == message.author.id ) {

Notice adding async and await lines so the code will pause and wait until the promise is resolved.

As for the actual response I can't see / validate that, but you should be able to debug it properly now that you are waiting for the promise to resolve. 👍

[ornate crown]

best to use .startsWith, and strict equality (===) 🙂

[wind horizon]

I honestly didn't read most of their code, just shared back their exact same code with no changes except the async/await to help them understand why the if statement didn't work as expected. Lol

[nocturne galleon]

Last night It took me way too long to figure out why we only need to check up to the square root when checking primes maybe I was just too tired

I mean it's modertly confusing but still

[supple hull]

jfc, I did a take home code test for a company and they said 3-4 hours so I took that a bit too literally. Basic thing was take a dummy project (wordpress) and hit an API end point, and display the data on the screen like their Figma mockup, and use localStore. Super super open ended.

I had a hell of a time getting it to work since their docker-compose was a bit screwed so I fixed that to work on my Apple Silicon box which adds a bit more complexity, noted what I did. Then they said use any frameworks, so I used Bootstrap grids and said "I did this for time, I can write my own grids" then I got docked for that. They didn't like how I used a global var state for a curl command to hit an API end point and had some issue compiling the JS (which was interesting as I didn't have that oh well, probably my bad).

Oh and I had to write tests in Cypress too

[nocturne galleon]

Just send two versions then they would make you CEO

How to do it in 4 hours and how to do it another way

[supple hull]

I've been at the same job for seven years and wasn't looking but their internal recruiter really took the time to reach out (going to personal website from linked in and referencing my profile etc) so I'm a bit out of practice on these.

[supple hull]

That'd been smart

The odd thing is I'm a UX developer. I said "I am not a PHP guy. I can do Python and PHP but don't expect amazing work from me" in the interviews leading up to the code challenge. They were like "Oh we want someone to work as a bridge between design and development". That is exactly what i do now and I like doing.

Then I got docked for how I wrote PHP 🙂

[nocturne galleon]

That's weird a lot of these types of questions can be seen as a sort of red flag for that company anyway

[supple hull]

Everything before that was fairly good as far as the interactions go, better than most. I assume though they have their standard level of dev stuff they want out of the way. I stupidly took them at face value wanting to see what I could really do in 3-4 hours (I spent extra time of course but not egregiously) but I'm guessing most people are like "Sure 3-4 hours" and spend 12.

Lesson learned.

Upside, still gainfully employed.

[wind horizon]

I learned few years ago recruiters rarely know what they are taking about and just say stuff. You gotta hear it from hiring manager or technical team to trust anything.

I have been told complete opposite of the work I truly ended up doing twice before.

[supple hull]

I've never gotten a job via a recruiter

I usually ignore them

Mostly I'm bummed about that fat paycheck lol

Not bummed about having to take on more Wordpress

In any case, I feel like that was a good refresher on hiring practices. I don't think I embarrassed myself and I did like they gave me real feedback. Although, c'mon, telling me I can use any framework then dinging me for using bootstrap grids (not even full bootstrap) was annoying or telling that I stashed a curl in a global var that wasn't super clear? Oh well. This is me working for agency where I'm always thinking about getting shit done over the best engineered solution.

[wind horizon]

Yeah that sucks, are you US based? Based on your described skill set idk of something off top of my head but can keep an eye out / ask around if anyone knows of good jobs.

[supple hull]

Yep, stateside, not really hurting as I have a pretty good job. Just doesn't pay the best.

I appreciate the offer but I'm alright

I just liked the idea of being able to pay off my remaining college debt in a few short months if I wanted to

[wind horizon]

Yup I saved up enough during covid to pay them off finally, just waiting to see what they do / when they resume before I make the payment.

Still not enough to pay off my wife's too, but it's a start. Lol

[supple hull]

I could clean my bank account out and have a few grand left over as is, just seems like a bad move

Oh man, my girlfriend has law school debt.

She makes good money but that law school debt is serious business

Like my college debt supremely manageable, I have like 1/10th of hers, maybe less

[wind horizon]

Oh nice, yeah any grad school stuff is expensive

[supple hull]

Also, just dropped about $5k the past few months fixing up garage into an office.

[wind horizon]

Combined we have like 50-60k left, think it originally was just shy of 80k. Been a long slow process to pay down.

[supple hull]

I paid to have the drywall done but holy hell, everything got EXPENSIVE, I think I paid a few hundred on copper wiring alone.

[wind horizon]

Wow

[supple hull]

Yeah, but also ran 240 to the garage.

[wind horizon]

Oh nice

[supple hull]

Idea is this place could become two rentals if things get serious with my girlfriend and I because of Portland's ADU (additional dwelling unit) stuff. Bascially the garage meets the requirements for an ADU so far. I had to buy R15 insulation and we had to give it's own panel box etc.

A lot of stuff to follow but my office is gonna be nice. Right now it's either working from my GF's kitchen or my brother's old cidery building. The later is more ideal but it's also a long ways away, which is where most of my stuff is.

So it'll be nice to have a proper work space. I feel like then and after I cash out a lot of vacation time I should actually get serious about job stuff

[wind horizon]

Oh yeah working in a kitchen and stuff is fun for remote travel, but kinda sucks for every day. Haha

One positive is some places will give you remote budget for your setup. Unfortunately not all places. My old job I got like $1k + internet every year.

Friend at FB think he said he gets $5k + some other benefits for remote.

My new job pays me more, but they don't give me cash to just spend. Instead they ship me monitors and such. Which is a shame since I have those, old job would let me expense desk, coffee machine, etc. 😅

But guess in the end they are just giving me the cash to do what I want with, so that's probably better still.

[supple hull]

The place I interviewed for gave you remote budget. My company gives a tiny bit. I’m going to use it to buy a good chair since mine sucks. It was good but it survived college.

[wind horizon]

Nice, yeah interviewing after not for so long is rough though. Last time I decided to change jobs I felt like first 2-3 I did okay but wasn't on my game. I made it to final rounds in all but 1, but it still felt a little rough until I got used to it again.

I know there are interview prep services, but that always seemed silly to me. When I interview devs I like to see them being honest and I never ding them for not knowing something. What I ding them the most for is talking in circles / clearly fibbing through it. I want someone who is honest and quick to acknowledge they don't know how to do something, but also will give it their best shot and see what those problem solving skills look like.

[supple hull]

That's been my opinion, our company is small so I sit in on interviews and mostly I'm looking for: Is this person an asshole? Will the screw me over by incompetence? Are they willing to demonstrate they're flexible about learning? I've had a few people lie and its always so obvious that its not worth the risk. I'm surprised it comes up.

I'm not a big fan of gotcha questions or putting someone on the spot or having them code in front of me so much I am seeing evidence of what they're capable of doing.

Awhile back we'd moved to coding exercises, we had one that was like series based on a language that you could rewatch someone code in real time which I still felt like was a bit more under the gun than I cared for.What the company game me this go around honestly was closer to what I prefer but I boned up apparently on what their criteria was so fair enough. Didn't get it.

[wind horizon]

I know some people that have been offered live pairing session or larger take home. I like that idea of giving the person a choice.

My 2nd dev job I remeber I was given an option to provide my own repo / code or use one of their pre-made ones with a link to them. That was super cool since you could come into the interview feeling comfortable in the code, but then they'd give you some challenges to refractor or add a feature.

[supple hull]

Had I passed, I'd had to do paired programming. Not bad. I haven't even done that while interviewing anyone but when I first started at my company we had people come in and do that, which I felt was a bit rough but we moved away from that since none of us sans the CTO liked it.

They wanted to do four hours of paired programming

[wind horizon]

Yeah this job I had 3hrs paired and 1hr manager / verbal. However it was 3 ppl all diff questions.

The worst I had was early in my career I had a 6hr long on site process. It was pretty awesome though and I got offered a Sr role only 2 years into my career making 6 figures.

I ended up turning it down though for a 100% remote role that wasn't too much less money and ever since I have only worked remote jobs. Haha

Interviews for devs can be pretty rough, I guess it's the trade off for our nice salary and benefits. 😅

But I feel like interviews are getting worse these days with how hyped leetcode is. Last time I switched jobs 2 out of the 5 interviews I did had ago questions and 0 questions related to web stack. I'm like uh if I pass the algo and don't even know a thing about say REST and you offer me a Sr/Staff role for a web app how is this going to work out.😅

In your case sounds like they just did a poor job communicating expectations.

I have always said interviewees should know what they are doing in the interview and if any tools what they will be. For example sending a test env in the shared coding tool used for pairing so they can get comfortable in the web IDE.

[marsh stream]

Get ready to laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3cL4nrGOk

[safe forge]

question: how do i limit inputs in php?

this is for name variable. how could I modify so that it only accepts inputs of numbers, and it has to be between 9-13?

this is what i adjusted it to, but im not sure how to limit the top and bottom band

do i need to use if statements?

[nocturne galleon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3cL4nrGOk

oh shit

someone also shared it above

@marsh stream haha!

I just watched this

fuckin hell, hilarious!

[hollow basalt]

anyone else, want to repost it?

[hollow basalt]

what do you mean by top and bottom band

[trail remnant]

Welcome to corporate.

I had a similar thought this morning. Software development is hard for a lot of reasons, but the reason a lot of companies fail is because of bad management.

There are people alive right now who were born before computers existed. The software development industry is super new. Software as a separate thing from hardware really only existed since the 70s, which is only 50 years for an entire industry to develop. There's just not enough skilled managers in our industry, and not enough broader knowledge in the business world to effectively work with software devs. We need millions of skilled technical managers, and we have thousands. We need tens of thousands skilled executives who know how to start a three person company and scale it to a successful medium sized company, and we only have dozens of people with that skillset/experience.

[cloud knot]

i would recommend using frameworks which usually have this kind of stuff built in; but i would recommend simply converting it to number ? So get the string input value, possibly use your number regex, then run it through https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.intval.php, then use simple math operators ?

[safe forge]

i solved

its all good

[wind horizon]

The back and forth humor is funny / captures JS world. But could have been done way better, too often he says things that don't make sense. For example saying promise came out, then we went to async await, and then back to promises.

Async functions are promises. 😅

[supple hull]

I love that I hate that I love a relate to this so hard

[native granite]

Is there a way to stop the background from changing color when the <select> menu is down?

[wind horizon]

I'm on my cell and can't test, but have you checked if it is in focus or active state? If so you can probably use that to target and style it while open.

[native granite]

Hm, I'll try that tomorrow, thanks :)

[nocturne galleon]

Web app of client finally deployed

fucking finally

[silk eagle]

💪

[nocturne galleon]

So as it turns out, me and my colleague finished the client project just in time for the start of our 2nd semester. and It has the subject, CMSC 100 - Web Development, which, in our case, we already have ample knowledge to speedrun the course

Because of the project, learnt so much over the course of the month

[midnight wind]

me trying to figure out random wordpress sites to add a specific feature

[silk eagle]

perl moment

[spark geode]

should I learn spring boot now or wait for version 3 to be released?

[trail remnant]

My opinion: If the next version of a thing isn't out, you shouldn't wait to learn until it does come out. Good educational materials take years to develop, and the first guides will be written assuming you're transitioning from the previous version.

[nocturne galleon]

(warning, this is my opinion, if you disagree with it, that's fine) if you want to learn it at all, i agree with pickle, though from looking at the code someone i know who uses spring always sends, it just looks like a lot of overengineering, i don't see a point in using it unless you have a very specific use case where it would help

[hollow basalt]

skill transcends version

these kind of enterprise libraries won't break their stuff

[trail remnant]

I guess "overengineering" depends on how that person is using Spring. There's a super old version where half your application is in huge XML configuration files, which is just a mess. Just don't use the old versions of Spring. But the newer version uses annotations like @autowired to automatically build and select appropriate instances of things like loggers or controllers so you can focus on writing independent components without worrying about managing dependency chains or initializing things. That's pretty nice. Lots of things like performance monitors can be completely automated just by including the spring-boot-actuator dependency in your pom.xml. (Using Maven, but I'm sure you can do the same with Gradle)

Those features are really nice when you're setting up a simple web service. Using spring-boot-starter-web makes the initial setup way easier, to the point where it almost feels like writing a webserver in a simpler language like Python.

[hollow basalt]

yea, don't use "spring" use "spring boot"

much easier

and more sane

[trail remnant]

Like, here's an example from a simple webserver project using the Spring Boot web starter.

<dependency>
    <groupId>org.springframework.boot</groupId>
    <artifactId>spring-boot-starter-web</artifactId>
</dependency>

Throw this in your pom.xml file, which includes everything you need to just get started writing a simple web server. Then you can write this kind of code that's simple and easy to understand:

@RestController
public class GenericEntityController {
    private List<GenericEntity> entityList = new ArrayList<>();

    @RequestMapping("/entity/all")
    public List<GenericEntity> findAll() {
        return entityList;
    }

    @RequestMapping(value = "/entity", method = RequestMethod.POST)
    public GenericEntity addEntity(GenericEntity entity) {
        entityList.add(entity);
        return entity;
    }

    @RequestMapping("/entity/findby/{id}")
    public GenericEntity findById(@PathVariable Long id) {
        return entityList.stream().
                 filter(entity -> entity.getId().equals(id)).
                   findFirst().get();
    }
}

Source: https://www.baeldung.com/spring-boot-starters

[hollow basalt]

i still don't like xml configs

i've been to enterprises with spring and now current with .net also xml

[trail remnant]

I mean, it's kinda a tossup. I've seen programmers have no small shortage of stupid errors manually editing YAML files. For Maven, the XML is super simple, and clearly explicit. I think there's not a big difference in terms of usability. The tags also make it easier to find specific things, which is an advantage over YAML using a single - dash character to tell the difference between a map and a list of maps. XML is more verbose, but in either case you'll be reading the documentation to understand the custom schemas while you're editing things, so it doesn't matter that much.

I'd personally choose to write YAML or JSON, but I can understand why some teams and technology stacks choose XML.

[hollow basalt]

the tags also make it easier to find specific things, which is an advantage over YAML using a single - dash character to tell the difference between a map and a list of maps.
yup, also experienced the list syntax error

thanks YAML

i'd go with JSON

[trail remnant]

You know, technically a JSON file is valid YAML. So if you really don't want to use YAML, you can always just write JSON instead.

YAML adds recursive references though, which JSON doesn't have.
Although all of the markup languages fall apart when you need to do templating. Then everything becomes a mess, and you just hate your entire life.

[hollow basalt]

templating
where XML shines,
when we literally have thousands of HTML templating engines,
XML is a easier

if I create a meme library.
i'd go with CSV or XSLX as config files

just to screw someover other

[trail remnant]

Just write your own custom file format.

[hollow basalt]

i'd create a custom file format with an existing standard file extension

maybe like config.exe

🤣

[trail remnant]

"Just write a custom application to interface with this binary"

[hollow basalt]

i'd create a bootstraper
meme-config-bootstrapper

a new node application just to edit a config of another

then id everything so can't use the same config application to edit multiple actual application

[trail remnant]

Because experienced developers have seen so many stupid design decisions, we're masters of trolling people with bad designs.

[hollow basalt]

when all they've seen are stupid decisions, they would accept ours too

why you deleted it, i haven't read it yet

[trail remnant]

It was an mp4, but discord was too stupid to render it correctly since the URL didn't end in .mp4

[hollow basalt]

a great deterrent for bots and humans alike

I like it

[silk eagle]

i feel like that's easier for bots

gotta find 2 arrows that point in the same direction and then rotate them until they face up

[next cipher]

wow that's a little evil

that's probably harder for any human who doesn't have good spatial reasoning skills (aka non engineers) than for bots lol

[trail remnant]

There are all sorts of evil UI things out there. A few years ago there was an informal competition to design the worst UI element ever.

I think my favorite one was the random number generator to enter your phone number.

[next cipher]

that was a fun post

i am partial to the one that was a little "drag and let go to fire" canon that had to ricochet and hit the right place for each digit

flashbacks to early flash games in middle school

[trail remnant]

There were so many wonderful ideas.

[wind horizon]

I have seen some good templating for YAML, like helm isn't bad. Usually they tend to rely on something like {{ }} for variables.

I prefer JSON for configs, but I think it's just because I spend so much time in JSON files today and it's fast for my brain to read. Not sure if that's a valid reason. 😆

For apps I mostly use and prefer envs though.

[trail remnant]

But I just loved the evilness of something clearly designed to be almost impossible, that was technically doable.

[wind horizon]

You mean like: https://userinyerface.com/game.html

I love sharing that site w/ UX ppls. lol

[nocturne galleon]

i just don't like frameworks/libraries where that much of the logic is done by annotations, i can understand it with something like the mixin bytecode manipulation library, it's definitely a lot better than manually using asm (a lower level bytecode manipulation of library that deals with it directly)

also considering how much i dislike python, something feeling like it isn't a good thing, i get what you mean though :p

[trail remnant]

Disliking python? How could you.

[nocturne galleon]

(an example of how mixin works)

@Mixin(Minecraft.class)
public class MixinMinecraft {
    @Inject(method = "<clinit>", at = @At("TAIL"))
    private static void clinit(CallbackInfo ci) {
        System.out.println("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThis got called by minecraft and is your custom mixin.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n");
    }
}

this injects the clinit method into the end of the static initializer of the Minecraft class

[trail remnant]

But okay, hear me out: Aren't you basically using mixins when you're working with someone else's webserver?

Webservers need access to OS hardware resources like ports and things. That's some pretty low level code that your application probably shouldn't have access to.

[umbral saffron]

i’m trying to run a file on my pi 4 via terminal and it appears i don’t have access to said file

how would i obtain access

[trail remnant]

Okay, that's pretty great.

[nocturne galleon]

Maybe it doesn't have the executable flag set? If you own it try running chmod +x fileNameHere

[silk eagle]

or slap a sudo at the start of the command to run it

[nocturne galleon]

Unless it's a program that actually needs to do something with that privilege, don't

Also make sure that if it's not in your $PATH that you're running it with ./

Could just be the shell outputting a confusing error because of that

[umbral saffron]

i tried this and it says “operation not permitted”

[nocturne galleon]

I guess you don't own the file

What file is it?

[silk eagle]

could always slap a sudo at the start of the chmod instead then

[umbral saffron]

it’s a program i wrote in thonny

so it’s completely mine

[nocturne galleon]

:concern:

Did you run thonny as root? That's the only thing i can think of that would explain it other than setuid shenanigans

And if you did, you probably shouldn't

[silk eagle]

i have one last suggestion

sudo chown it

[nocturne galleon]

But yeah I'd just chown it first and then chmod it

[umbral saffron]

ah right

i completely forgot that existed

[silk eagle]

everyone always does

[nocturne galleon]

I accidentally chowned /usr/bin once :p

Made sudo stop working since it relies on setuid

Kinda funny

It was when i knew very little about linux

[umbral saffron]

yikes

wait i forgot my username 💀

the default one doesn’t work

i’m being stupid sorry

how do i find the user

[nocturne galleon]

To see your username run whoami, to list all users run awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd, your username might also just be in your PS1 (the line that your shell shows after every command)

Fixed the awk command, forgot the most important part

:p

[umbral saffron]

ah ok

still says i don’t have ownership

but tysm

[trail remnant]

I've got a lot of feelings I'm working through right now, so I'm just going to slowly trickle funny software development memes in here.

[nocturne galleon]

wouldn't it be as simple as writing the bytes in reverse order or am i missing something?

[midnight wind]

why in the world would you do it manually

manually rearrange the bytes...

file extension means nothing

doesn't change the format of the data

also what type of data?

unicode text?

and what do you need to do with it exactly?

change to wav?

https://zeldamods.org/w_botw/index.php?title=Help:Sound_modding&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

found this

https://github.com/NanobotZ/bfstp-fixer/blob/master/bfstpfixer.py

found this https://github.com/aboood40091/BCFSTM-BCFWAV-Converter

oh nevermind

[nocturne galleon]

i don't know about python but with kotlin i'd probably do something like

val file = File("filename")
file.writeBytes(file.readBytes().reverse())

there is the issue that if the file is very big it could cause memory issues since it reads all of it into memory at once, but that's probably not an issue with a sound file

[midnight wind]

doesn't support bfwave

[midnight wind]

maybe it'll work, but I assume the file structure is more complex

since you have the header which needs to stay

[nocturne galleon]

i mean, from my experience headers generally use the same endianness as the rest of the file, is it different for that specific one?

[midnight wind]

honestly, no clue

this is not the stuff I'm experienced in

[nocturne galleon]

with the ark survival evolved save file format that i've been messing with lately at least that's the case

so i just have to change my QDataStream to little endian and then i can deserialize everything easily

stream.setByteOrder(QDataStream::LittleEndian);

[trail remnant]

Changing the file extension without modifying the contents of the file be like:

[midnight wind]

literally

should save this image, perfectly describes it

[trail remnant]

File extensions are just labels on the file. It doesn't change what's inside.

[supple hull]

My god, I'm witnessing CSS hellscape. Working on a component library and I can't touch a child element and mofos nonstop are using JS to calc widths and heights.

[trail remnant]

It took me long enough to find these, so have some more examples:

[midnight wind]

I hate frontend...

[trail remnant]

The whole virtual DOM is neat and very useful, but it's also the worst thing ever.

[supple hull]

I live in front end and I can write CSS in my sleep, the problem is other people don't

UX dev

[trail remnant]

Theoretically, you can build up custom elements that you can harmlessly inject into another webpage, without colliding with the existing styles, because the custom element is in the shadow DOM, which namespaces itself separately from the real DOM.
Practically, no one builds components that work perfectly, so you end up with some super minor CSS change you want to make, but it's nearly impossible to get at the complex set of nested HTML elements to make a simple change. Unlike traditional HTML elements, you can't easily modify whatever you want, which takes away one of the most useful parts about web development.

[supple hull]

They brutalized the front end by using white space and copy pasta to try and ellipses two lines of text. Their correction to the dom not calculating the width was to then force the widths and heights multiple times with JS

They also did a lot of wacky flex stuff and tried to correct with overflows

[trail remnant]

Yeah, shadow DOM is nice when internal elements behave like traditional elements, but sometimes they do something like set a minimum width, or don't properly scale the width, which can screw up everything.

[supple hull]

Do you mean virtual dom?

This isn't web components, its React

[trail remnant]

Actually, I'm not sure. I don't do enough front end to know the difference.

I've poked at "import X for free!" a few times, and it's been annoying each time.

[supple hull]

man, what a day so little accomplished

Ha

Oh boy, so I guess I was working on a code base by overseas devs from one of the cheaper countries, makes more sense now

[wind horizon]

This is a pain, there are great international devs even in my own team. But the problem is most of the time when companies do this they are looking to save money and so they are the cheapest international drvs which then gives a bad rep to them back here in the states.

Would get bad devs state side as well if you hired the cheapest.lol

[wind horizon]

This reminds me of one thing that bugs me. So often I see people put {" "} in react instead of nbsp or adding it to template string. Like why are we running some JS in the JSX just to add a space? Lol

[supple hull]

they were using styled-componets so you'd think they'd actually be able to figure things out

[wind horizon]

2 jobs ago I worked on a shared component library, with the goal being to make it 90% if the time no tickets need css. Everything was just plug and play react components for all your layout.

It was so nice when it was done, because the avg FE dev doesn't know how todo proper css or heck even html these days. You just get a tone of devs that memorized react specificlly and hack their way through all the css and html making a mess.

[wind horizon]

Styled is nice stuff, but I think being in the JS like it is makes it too easy for someone who doesn't know what they are doing to just make a huge mess. Lol

[supple hull]

The issue is that there's that web 1.0 tendency to JS your way to victory when things aren't rendering right

I've seen that a lot

[wind horizon]

Every week I swear I have to comment on a PR that has tones of CSS rules all as props. I'm like what's the point in passing all our margin and everything from js into this?

[supple hull]

hell, I even corrected our contracted dev's work since he was using fixed widths since he wanted to position something and I was like display: inline-flex my guy

CSS is kinda trash but at the same time, it can be done sanely.

[wind horizon]

Then don't get me started on when ppl set height and width to match the figma.

I'm like the figma is static, devices are not very sparingly should you statically set the size like that. At least use max- so it can size down. 😭

[supple hull]

Oh man, people who copy and paste out sketch and figma

[wind horizon]

I swear that is most JS devs today

Copy past figma lol

[supple hull]

 top: 100px;
left: 40px```

[wind horizon]

Hahaha yesssss

[supple hull]

then responsive fail

[wind horizon]

Then in the next PR someone has to change the stores again for one tiny thing instead having made it responsive to start

I try to favor using flex and such and then controlling the container.

[supple hull]

I might not be the strongest programmer, but I can fix your react like no other. It's the weird thing about job hunting is if someone hits me with CS questions like deep O notation, i'll stare like a deer in headlights but I'll stop you from forcing a gazillion JS executions just top print a title at the top of your div

This is what happens when you have an art degree but decide programming is easier than art

Hence the whole I'm a ux developer

[wind horizon]

my first big tech type of job they sent me tests to do in advance and I did OK on the CS side I think like an 80, but they said I scored perfect 100 on the reactor side and I was pretty much guaranteed the job at that point they said. Lol but they were looking for react specialist to help their backend devs learn react on this project.

[supple hull]

I'm always amazed at the projects I see, and how much logic gets pushed to the react side of things

[wind horizon]

I worked in an office app, so in that case it has to be. That was a near app

But usual I'm the person yelling to stop filtering all data on current and use api calls todo it lol

I helped fix an app that was "slow" that's all I was told.

Opened it they were sending serval thousands of records to the client. It legit pulled all data from DB and sent it to client then tried todo all the work in client lol

[supple hull]

The worst was one (I think i mentioned) for auto dealerships and our team was brought into help bring guidance and they had this crazy stack where they had old school 1970s computers still in operations for the dealerships so they had to create a separate back end team to just get the data into a modernish database and pull in data from crazy parts. React side of things was a horrible bad mess.

SELECT * FROM table_name ?

[midnight wind]

oh no

[supple hull]

I suppose if you fart out the enter DB into a JSON you can do all sorts of stuff with it 🙂

[midnight wind]

I look at these stories and wonder if I over engineer my stuff lol

[wind horizon]

Yeah it was nosql

[supple hull]

@midnight wind a good 10 hours of programming can save you at least 1 hour of planning

the auto dealership software company was sunken cost fallacy all the way down.

They just needed to burn their react library, create stories for their ux library and pick a paradigm of how to control the ui widgets.

They printed a metric assload of data into complex tables and had this paid react software that could a lot but it seemed like no one understood it.
data went in -> magic -> data displayed.

That also made life hard. It was interesting as a theoretical project as they were trying to create a react front end to a bunch of systems that auto dealerships use so you could retire several MS apps into one web interface and be able to sign and work in your department, and see your parts inventory and create all the printed docs you need. It was pretty complex.

the project wasn't going well so they did the classic management thing and threw more and more developers at the problem to make it go faster, hence how my company as a 3rd party ended up involved.

it did everything from payroll for employees to like making the proper docs for whatever state you were in to sell the car to CRM stuff. Absolutely huge.

idea was one piece of software to run your entire dealership

[wind horizon]

I think one thinn with modern web dev work is we have reduced barriers to enrrily. Like it's super easy to get going on react and for a FE dev to work BE thanks to Node / JS on BE now.

But those low barriers to entry can also be bad if you have devs who don't care / think about things and just hack through it until it kind some how works.

Like the amount the meme is shared of idk why my code works always frightens me.

[supple hull]

If I had to approach that project, I'd honestly suggested something like web components instead of react possibly. Who cares if you hammer the dom with a few too many requests and have page reloads? You could at least bury different tech into the components themselves as needed.

getting an applications to ship that literally spans so many sectors like inventory management, book keeping, CRM etc is bound to never all at once

[wind horizon]

Yeah micro front-end works decent for large systems but technically made up of many smaller apps.

[raw shoal]

Hi Hi anyone here good with Squirrel Programming? Getting the weirdest bug..

[hollow basalt]

No

[trail remnant]

Relevant:

[hollow basalt]

I think he meant the actual squirrel lang

I do hope so

And i just found about it today

[trail remnant]

Huh. Apparently that's a thing.

http://www.squirrel-lang.org

Man, our field is so strange. It's hard to tell a bad joke apart from a real legitimate question.

[hollow basalt]

The key is to accept everything as a bad joke

[trail remnant]

What Does it look like?
squirrel's syntax is similar to C/C++/Java etc... but the language has a very dynamic nature like Python/Lua etc...

but y thou

[hollow basalt]

Until they assured they were serious

[trail remnant]

Why design another language for integrating with game engines?

[hollow basalt]

Yea, just use c to make the game devs hate themselves

[trail remnant]

But like, Lua has those things, and is fairly common for scripting in game dev.

[wind horizon]

Video games today have such massive RAM requirements I feel like the need to be lightweight is kind of funny.

[trail remnant]

Huh, okay, the history of Squirrel is literally to fix problems with embedding Lua into games. It apparently steals a lot of API design cues from Lua.

[hollow basalt]

Why optimize games when consumers can buy more expensive machines

[trail remnant]

The answer is that as little as 3 years ago, most games were designed for a console with only 2mb of L2 cache, and 8GB of shared memory between the CPU and GPU.

8 years before that, the "top" end of the console market had 512 MEGABYTES of total memory.

[raw shoal]

Yeah I meant the Squirrel programming language @trail remnant@hollow basalt

[wind horizon]

Consoles are the worst.

[trail remnant]

What a strange world we live in. Reality is stranger than fiction.

"Worst" for technical specs, yes. But they do have advantages, like being able to provide developers with consistency to truly push the hardware to its limits, without needing to worry about a million different configurations causing problems.

[raw shoal]

@trail remnantwelcome to source engine

[trail remnant]

Does this mean that a substantial part of Titanfall is written in squirrel?

[raw shoal]

pretty sure it is

a lot of apex legends is

[wind horizon]

Idk how long that will last, Xbox already introduced multiple variants and then now you have massive gaps between power of say a Switch and PS.

I mean yeah it’ll always be less targets and complexities, but most those games are released on PC so they already deal with them.

[wind horizon]

Consoles have their place for sure, cheap and easy when compared to a pc.

[trail remnant]

The markets and technology are definitely blending together a lot more than they used to, but I think there's still a substantial consumer distinction between the two markets.

I'm still considering buying a PS5, since it's wayyy cheaper than any current GPU that beats my 2070, and there are a lot of really cool games on there. (Horizon Dawn)

[wind horizon]

I’d be interested to see what those actually stack up like. If I had to guess I don’t think the PS5 is going blow you away if you are coming from a 2070. You were already leaps ahead of a PS4, so not going to be that like shock factor for those coming from a ps4.

At least consoles are finally targeting higher refresh rates, was terrible how long they stayed at 30s.

[trail remnant]

I'm not looking for a massive increase in GPU power. I'm constantly looking for how to upgrade my battlestation because it's a big hobby of mine.

And right now the next generation is sitting right around the corner, and it's going to bring massive performance uplifts. Plus, everything is crazy expensive right now.

[wind horizon]

Yeah but why the option of PS5 then, since it’s not like a huge upgrade or anything and it’s hard to get too. Or just for like exclusives and such or do lots of couch play?

I went down the console road again with ps4 thinking I missed couch play with a controller. It collected dust and was hardly played, learned I honestly do like my pc more. Haha

[trail remnant]

eXcLuSiVeS

[wind horizon]

Ugh necessary evil I guess so long as they do them. Haha

[trail remnant]

I played Horizon Zero Dawn on a roommate's PS4, and it was pretty dope.

I really want to play the next game, but I lack the hardware.

[wind horizon]

Yeah at least that came to PC, but took forever haha

[hollow basalt]

oh nooo, our ADT conversation

[trail remnant]

Well, mods finally got involved.

[nocturne galleon]

nyoo my knoweldge

[trail remnant]

@nocturne galleon I missed your question. Can you repost?

[hollow basalt]

so yea, we back at hoirzon zero dawn

[trail remnant]

Yeah, sorry about that.

[nocturne galleon]

alright, thanks for the talk guys
see you 👍

[hollow basalt]

now have have a 15sec slow 😢

[trail remnant]

Dang. My discussion of the CLR is gone. That sucks.

[hollow basalt]

but static typing > dynamic typing

[trail remnant]

On that note, does anyone know of a good place to have serious discussions about technical topics? I've looked around a bit but I can't find anywhere good. There are only 3-4 active developers in this chat, which is kinda rough.

[hollow basalt]

near the watercooler at your company (if you're not remote)

[midnight wind]

in the code opt-in

[wind horizon]

I mostly do it at work.

I finally learned.my wife doesn't want to hear me gush over how much fun I'm having in Web Assembly. 😂

[hollow basalt]

her profession, what

[trail remnant]

I'm remote, and I'm probably staying remote for a long time. The company Slack is okay for super-professional stuff, but it's inactive outside of work hours, and during work I need to be productive.

[wind horizon]

I'm remote, so I just hijack the end of calls to talk tech if ppl are free haha

[trail remnant]

Man, I just need to start a blog.

[midnight wind]

same

[hollow basalt]

goodbye everyone
glamdring enters
-Do you know the new features of web assembly

[wind horizon]

I start by asking how everyone's weekend was, which is a segway into me playing with wasm on the weekend.

Of I do it reverse asking ppls plans for the weekend. Lol

The super obsessed devs enjoy it, but I'm sure a large majority of ppl are like.

How do I tell this guy I just want to log off. Haha

[hollow basalt]

"Oh you gonna go hiking"
"that's cool, you know what else is cool i would implement this in webassembly"

[wind horizon]

She doesn't work anymore, make enough now she was able to leave her garbage job and just play video games all day. 😂😂😂

[hollow basalt]

How do I tell this guy I just want to log off. Haha
send him an email afterwards about the gist of the dev convo just to screw him over

[trail remnant]

Shower thought: Slow mode beyond like 5 seconds makes chat much worse if there's no character limit. It probably leads to less discussion and more rants, since you're incentivized to make longer posts with less feedback.

With a character limit it just kills the chat.

[hollow basalt]

when medium meets discord
slowmode makes me edit my last chat.
just so I can continue the thought
while you guys try to keep up

[wind horizon]

I like Medium at first, now I feel it's over run with basic tutorials.

"The different types of variables in JS" 😆

[trail remnant]

sigh
I want to write stuff, but the technical work of setting up and maintaining a website eats into the time I would spend writing.

I should probably just start a Medium blog, but ehhhhhh. I'm not a super big fan of Medium, and I know a lot of other people aren't. I have mixed feelings about using their platform.

[hollow basalt]

" how to create website in X framework"

[hollow basalt]

be a linked in lunatic, and do it there

[trail remnant]

Are there any other good platforms for writing blogs? Preferably one with support for Markdown editing?

[wind horizon]

Yup everytime I go to make a personal blog or something I'm like... Eh too much effort. Lol

[hollow basalt]

dunno, maybe a static website generator that converts MD?

[wind horizon]

I'll write a new one tonight, the JS framework for making new frameworks. 🤯

[hollow basalt]

as if jquery isn't enough

and we are already at the 2nd level .
next builds into react

[wind horizon]

I had to write some jquery today!!!

Was an ancient internal tool that was missing a feature and annoyed me. Haha

[hollow basalt]

as long as they keep putting in features into ES, jquery would be used less and less

[wind horizon]

Yeah I don't use jquery at all for prod / real dev work. Can't remeber the last time I did.

[hollow basalt]

fetch brings tears 🥲 so much cleaner

[midnight wind]

github pages, use whatever framework you want?

[hollow basalt]

I wonder if someone already made a jquery re-write using promises
maybe we should 😉

[wind horizon]

I still prefer axios, but yeah fetch is soooo nice for something native.

[midnight wind]

https://gohugo.io/hosting-and-deployment/hosting-on-github/

[hollow basalt]

insert chef kiss emoji (i don't have nitro)

[trail remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/chefs-kiss-french-chef-perfect-dish-excellent-food-perfection-gif-20341505
I got u fam

[wind horizon]

When I see pre ES6 code I always wonder, how did we live with ourselves. 😆

I was mostly writing ASP and some .NET back than doing data processing type system. But still, like anonymous function without the arrow function are 🤮 looking

[hollow basalt]

I actually want to tell my friend who attends a webdev introduction
how we did without promises

the horrors

along the lines of

[wind horizon]

Hahaha so true

I'll call this and I'll call this and I'll call this. 😭

Not to mention the issue of dealing with / passing or binding "this" if you needed before arrow functions.

[hollow basalt]

this always screws new dev

what is "this"

(stolen from shutterstock, hence the zoom icon)

[silk eagle]

this is cringe

[cloud knot]

just wait when you start trying to understand RxJS

[empty sentinel]

Quick question. I’ve used winforms in the past where it was really easy to build a GUI using a WYSIWYG editor. Is there anything like that for Python?

[hollow basalt]

considering python doesn't have a standard gui, gonna check for each library.
for Qt, they have the Qt-designer to be language agnostic (pytho,c++ etc)
@empty sentinel

[empty sentinel]

Hmm.. QT is WYSIWYG?

Oh neat. It is.

[hollow basalt]

if only we have a python-standrd gui, so people would build tools on top of it

a good thing that microsoft got the .net community on lock for VS

[empty sentinel]

I could probably sneak that on to my work laptop. I will also have to look in to whether or not it can use poweshell as the “code base”

[hollow basalt]

wacha building, PS GUIs?

[empty sentinel]

Sadly, yes.

[hollow basalt]

why?
who would be the user

[empty sentinel]

And AdminScriptEditor is somehow corrupted on install now at work.

Me and 2 teams. Super basic stuff. But it does pull data from Active Directory and has links to documents and such.

[hollow basalt]

why PS? can't install runtime on clients?

[empty sentinel]

Basically, you type in a name or a computer name and it pulls up all kinds of info about it.

1. I am very much not a programmer. I can script a bit though.

[hollow basalt]

I'm not well versed with MS, they don't expose AD functionality through libraries?
so you need to call system tools?

[empty sentinel]

2. I do convert it to an Exe, but it’s just a wrapper for the actual script

Maybe. PS has worked well enough for getting the info I need so far. 🙂

[hollow basalt]

may i suggest you lose some of your sanity and implement it with c++

[empty sentinel]

Lol. I don’t have access to VS (just VS code)

[hollow basalt]

ah yes, PS is really helpful, much much better than CMD

[empty sentinel]

In PS, I’m standardizing all output as an object, which allows me to set a *.bool value as well so higher level logic can easily tell if the function itself thinks it succeeded.

[hollow basalt]

2019, seems to me

[hollow basalt]

if the function itself thinks it succeeded.

so you're doing it in python with calls to PS?

[empty sentinel]

Lol. Say you call a function and it returns anything. The bool of that call is now $true even if whatever the function did failed. To work around this, you can create a whole bunch of If’s to check the data returned by the function, if you can implement all of those checks in the called function itself and spit out a $bool value so you don’t have to keep implementing checks in every code that calls the function.

[empty sentinel]

We have Python at work. Was willing to try to convert PS stuff to Python.

So far, I have 0 Python code or experience.

[hollow basalt]

if you can implement all of those checks in the called function itself
sounds like the typical null checking in other languages

[hollow basalt]

based on what I know of you, it won't be that hard to learn it.
but migration from PS to python is a different story

if the management is willing to invest employee hrs into that migration, would say worth it
yo team sanity would be intact after some time

[empty sentinel]

Management can’t afford to let me be interested. My team is overrun with support tickets at the moment. So much so that we were just authorized a team expansion - which hasn’t occurred in at least the past 10 years or so.

[hollow basalt]

Would you say, you can't invest to R&D because of everyday ops?

[empty sentinel]

So I carve out time when waiting for other tasks to finish up. 🙂

[nocturne galleon]

Imo a project that forces contributors to use a specific IDE is not worth contributing to, sadly that seems to be pretty common with visual studio projects, there is also the fact vs is proprietary, i do all my jvm development in intellij's community edition, and all non jvm development in vscodium, both are FOSS, and anyone can use anything else they want to

[empty sentinel]

My whole job is OPs. 🙂

[hollow basalt]

sounds like python isn't realistic for the moment, maybe creating new scripts in python but migration is not achievable

[hollow basalt]

used to have that, but mgmt said we should atleast allow 3hrs for R&D and making our work easier through automation and scripts. Was thankful for that

but hey, your dpt is much bigger than mine

you support/help more people

[empty sentinel]

5 people, soon to be 6. 3,000 computers, 2,000 employees I think.

[hollow basalt]

with that in mind. "overrun" might be downplaying

even 1hr of free time [no tickets], you could several things in python.
so goodluck

[empty sentinel]

I’m a firm believer is not just firefighting, but also working on fire prevention and firefighting tools.

[hollow basalt]

couldn't agree more. Would rather bug employees to do X to prevent incidents than ask for RCAs

[hollow basalt]

in estimation, how much automation you have to handle OPS? and in essence, is that all/most PS?

[empty sentinel]

We have exactly 1 PS script I would place in the automation category. All other stuff is PS/CMD and mostly one-off fixes for various things.

We just started working on a script to autoprune stale computers out of AD. That would fall under automation when it is complete

[hollow basalt]

All other stuff is PS/CMD and mostly one-off fixes for various things.
Do you keep those somewhere or is it literally useless after the request

[hollow basalt]

now I wonder what language do sysads in big companies use to automate

[midnight wind]

power automate

[hollow basalt]

I wouldn't exactly say microsoft does python library

[empty sentinel]

Mostly the scripts are stored in random folders like “bill t”.

[hollow basalt]

but I only use that to meme and automate small stuffs. doubt they do it for critical/actual usage

[empty sentinel]

I’m trying to clean up one of our main folders but I’m hitting a decent amount of resistance.

[hollow basalt]

resistance for what?

[midnight wind]

On the topic of power automate, what would you use to automate getting stuff from forms and doing stuff with it. Power automate has been kinda a pita with it's gui

Since my boss wants to make a system of keeping track of inventory

[hollow basalt]

but why do you use forms

[midnight wind]

Destroyed drives

[midnight wind]

Uhh, that's what he wanted. Well originally it was for just destroyed hard drives

So in that sense, it works.

[hollow basalt]

Power automate sucks so bad, I wouldn't actually use it.
if you think you could do it in other ways, do it

[midnight wind]

But for inventory management, I would need something better

[hollow basalt]

if you are locked with power automate, check if this works:
Forms -> Power Automate (send HTTP post) -> (your app here)
basically just use PA to dump everything

[empty sentinel]

Resistance from a person who didn’t even want to use that folder in the first place and has made no effort to discuss or reason with me other than “I have links to the directory”.

[midnight wind]

See, rn it uses a cloud excel worksheet to store drive info

A worksheet for each client. Also this is just in dev still, a side project.

[hollow basalt]

links of what?

[hollow basalt]

the management won't budge on their forms?

[empty sentinel]

Links to files/folders. The folder is small and there’s no reason why the links couldn’t be updated in less than 10 minutes.

We’re talking like, desktop shortcuts. Not even web links

[hollow basalt]

like a colleague? destroy the folder then count how long it would take for him to know it's deleted

[empty sentinel]

Lol. I’m not evil like that. 😛

[hollow basalt]

sometimes being evil is the best way for the greater good

[empty sentinel]

Naw. It’s not like this is the first time I’ve cleaned up a folder. You have to work with those you’re affecting. In the past, I had the authority to spend time and work with each person. Now, I do not have that authority, so if someone says “no, I don’t feel like lifting a finger to make anything better”, I have to live with that.

[hollow basalt]

that sucks. "I have to live with that."
-1 life points

[empty sentinel]

…doesn’t mean I can’t pull my files out of the folder and leave them to their own devices though.

…and file it under the better filing system

[hollow basalt]

do it, then let theirs be chaotic

[empty sentinel]

That only works so much because they are using the filing system I set up within their folder. And though I don’t like to gloat, it works for the most part. Lol.

[hollow basalt]

Doesn't sound like gloat to me.

[empty sentinel]

Everyone who moves on from my workplace gets their stuff migrated to the new filing system for sanity.

So it will be a slow process. But it is my belief people will eventually catch on and learn to use it effectively.

[hollow basalt]

how long does it take to migrate

[empty sentinel]

It may not be perfect, but it’s a heckuva lot better than the chaos we have now.

Migration is literally just moving a folder under one of 3 locations: home, group, software

If it’s a home folder, all lower case, persons first dot last name

If it’s a group, must go under a sub folder with the group or team name. All lower case.

[midnight wind]

If I find something better they would

[empty sentinel]

Software right now is free-form. But will eventually be organized into logical sub folders.

[midnight wind]

They are flexible, I just haven't done much research on eventually the goal which is inventory management

[hollow basalt]

an open source inventory management ?

[hollow basalt]

keep pushing, it would be more sane

[empty sentinel]

Drivers, scripts, software, IT utilities, etc…

[midnight wind]

Well something in cloud preferably. I would need to do more research

[hollow basalt]

is you filing system documented somewhere

[hollow basalt]

would bet something already exists

[midnight wind]

Yeah ofc

Bc rn when clients bring stuff in, a form is just attached about what it is, but not into a database or anything

Boss wants things to be more trackable and documented. Records of drives destroyed, etc.

[empty sentinel]

My head. I used to have it documented at a previous job, including super flexible and easy to manage ACL’s, but I forgot to take that documentation with me and the IT guy who took over for me literally deleted almost everything.

[hollow basalt]

Sounds like a great management

[hollow basalt]

Document it, then flood everyone with the mail

[empty sentinel]

I have a picture floating around somewhere that shows a corner of a paper that shows part of the ACL setup. I just need to do the work to reconstruct it

LOL

[hollow basalt]

a corner of a paper
the information 🤣

[midnight wind]

Small MSP. I go directly to the big boss basically

[hollow basalt]

Less mgmt hierarchy , the faster

[empty sentinel]

That pic of the corner of the documentation is no longer on my phone. Gotta dig it up in my archives. shudder

[hollow basalt]

now just gotta make it official

[wind horizon]

I have had todo AD scripting several years ago, PS was one of the easiest thanks to access to those .NET tools inside it. However I never had any type of GUI attached. 🤔

When I have had to work with AD in other languages such as Node, Go, and PHP I found it easiest to use LDAP libraries since they exist for all languages and are easy to connect to AD.

In most of these languages the GUI was a web client, so the web client could access and modify things like AD groups and such. (If user had permission in AD)

[timber basin]

Can someone explain what 'bind' does in JavaScript? Does it just essentially bind a certain 'this' to a new function without messing with the original function?

[midnight wind]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_objects/Function/bind

basically I think

[timber basin]

thanks

[silk eagle]

a certain 'this', what a beautiful language

[nocturne galleon]

Do smaller local business use leet code questions or is that more of a FANG type thing?

[hollow basalt]

Do they actually use it

[wind horizon]

It's hard to know, I have had leet code like question at a medium size company and then I interviewed for FANG and worked in 2 Fortune top 25 tech companies and didn't have a single leet code question.

Not sure where you are at in your career, but first 2 "levels" of software engineer shouldn't have many if any unless it's a job that requires that type of work.

I think the type of role will effect it a lot, for example a Front End role at FANG I interviewed for had none and then a SDN type role I interviewed for had some algo questions and it made sense because this role I'd be working with cryptography.

[nocturne galleon]

I am looking for a software engineer internship. There seems to be a decent amount of medium sized companies near me that hire. From looking around on Reddit every person there says you need to be a leetcode master to get a internship

From the internship listings I have seen most just say have experience in a OOP language like java,c++,c#,kotlin. Some specify specifically like C if it is a car company.

[wind horizon]

Honestly lot of ppl on reddit and such aren't even devs and just repeating what they heard. Lol

If you are going for a paid internship at a tech company it should likely be posted for a type of role. The skills you need should relate to that role.

Often times interns I worked with at the last company did get passed around to a few diff things to give them exposure, but still we picked up ppl who had the skills and interest in what we were doing.

For example last job we used Python and React, so we often looked for people who knew one of those or at least had interest in building a web app.

It was also a cybersecurity company, so we looked for people with interest or knowledge in that space as well.

The interns I worked with we never asked leet code, those interviews were far more verbal with lightweight coding possibly.

However every company is different so my experience isn't going tk be the same you see. Haha

That's not to say it was "easy" since interns often didn't have real experience and so these interviews likely were hard for them and competitive.

My team of roughly 25 picked up like 2-3 interns per semester, i have no idea on total applications since I only got to see those that made it past HR. I think avg was like 10-20 made it through screening before we settled on some, but sometimes less since I once the spots were filled we stopped interviewing.

[timber basin]

It all depends im still in school rn and theyre pushing heaving MERN stack

[wind horizon]

Every company is different for sure, but I'd say start with deciding the type of internship you want / what interests you. Then begin working on those skills and try your best to go into the interview with confidence and showing your not only eager to learn but motivated self starter who has done a lot of your own research in advance.

[timber basin]

They say that if youre good with MERN you should be able to find a job

[nocturne galleon]

Yeah, I mean I hardly even see data structures as a requirement, but the listings are pretty vague for internships. Good to hear that not everyone uses leet code problems though. If they don’t ask coding problems off of leet code what do they typically consist of?

[timber basin]

Im just doing everything tbh, so far ive learned C/C++, Python, Java, Javascript, React and some PyTorch

Javascript to me seems like the most hot thing to learn rn and there was one other language off the top of my head but im blanking

Lots of cybersecurity stuff also tends to be more python

[nocturne galleon]

I think right now I just want to get experience in the industry. I recently got an associates in software engineering but my data structures are rusty have not really used them much. I know more about general programming than web development at this point in time though.

[timber basin]

Are you good with Javascript by any chance? Im kinda confused on something here

[timber basin]

Yeah im terrible at that, I hated discrete math and algos

function logExecutionTime(f) {
return function(arg) {
console.time('function timing');
const val = f(arg);
console.timeEnd('function timing');
return val;
};
}

function wasteTime(limit) { for(let i=0;i < limit; i++) { }}
wasteTime = logExecutionTime(wasteTime);
wasteTime(5000000);

im confused what the args are in that return

[wind horizon]

You'll be fine if you are good at the language, sure you may run into some place with elitists who test hard on it but pass them by for the countless places that don't. Haha

For example say you are going for a web dev role, you'd want to focus in on APIs, make sure you know the gist of REST and maybe consider basics of GQL. Deff have JS on your short list if it's a web app.

But if you want say IoT or embedded look more at compiled languages like C/C++.

If your into data / analytics more Python likely

[timber basin]

Whats a good way to learn more about pentesting

[nocturne galleon]

I havent used javascript in years sadly

[wind horizon]

There are some sites where you can do practice exercises, don't remeber the name of them but remeber they exist from when I worked at cybersecurity firm.

[nocturne galleon]

I was into android but I took a class and it was just so much to manage

[timber basin]

I figured it out its passing the other functions arguments and using it to get the val

[timber basin]

Yeah I remember there being a website run by google that you were allowed to run test on and nmap

[wind horizon]

To be good at pentesting though need to also understand how systems work, since need to understand how to exploit them. Otherwise you are confined to mostly being a script runner.

[timber basin]

I took an operating systems course

do you mean like how concurrent programming works?

The most they went into hacking though was stack smashing

[wind horizon]

No there are sites that you do full examples where they show you for example inspecting network traffic with Wireshark or exploiting XSS etc.

[timber basin]

Ill look into that then, I do also remember there being some benefit to understanding how operating systems work and how the kernel operates

That class was also a pain in the ass

[wind horizon]

Haha yeah I'm not a big mobile fan, it's cool for sure but just never got into it much. If they bring native web apps to mobile like what they did with WebOS maybe I'll give it another shot.

I guess you can do PWA on Android kinda like web app today.

[nocturne galleon]

Yeah it is something I would like to revisit later but I just want to get what I can before I start aiming for more advanced jobs/internships that use more complex programming. My web dev class was interesting too we did MVC with both php and jsp but once I finished it and went on to other classes I feel like I already forgot a lot it is hard to remember all these things when your next class is very different.

Android and windows 11 teamed up so that is cool too. My first internship can be something I am not fully into and I will still be happy with it.

[wind horizon]

Eh that's okay PHP still is widely used but far from a requirement today. I haven't wrote any PHP in over 6 years.

[wind horizon]

For sure internship can help you find what you like as well.

But you can deff improve your chances and get more out of it if you pick something you are interested in.

I have been in interviews where the candidate was passed up simply because the team felt like they had no interest in the job. Avoid saying things like "I just need a job"

Everytime people leave the interview and in feedback say "I respect their honesty, but"

[nocturne galleon]

Yeah that makes sense, if it is something I like I will probably end up learning more too. I will see what I can find. I think there are more things I would like than not like.

[wind horizon]

Yup when you do what you are interested in you'll excel and learn easily.

[hollow basalt]

microsoft excel

[hollow basalt]

I only use php when my friends needs help

I don't use it professionally

[cloud knot]

if a company asked me to do stupid stuff on hiring, i would just walk away