technically impossible but i can dream
#development
nocturne galleon
dim lava
B is block, R is redstone, T is torch
nocturne galleon
oh okay ^^
dim lava
the bottom can also act as a reset too
dim lava
Yeah. You can stack them next to each other with 1 block of air in between
nocturne galleon
okay so technically
2widex4longx4tall
cool, my design is 2widex6longx2tall
horizantal stack with air gap, vertical stack with no gap but the one created naturally by the construction of the bit
they both take up the same space essentially
nocturne galleon
how many redstone inputs does yours need, mine only needs 1
dim lava
Well at minimum, a memory cell should have 2 inputs: S and R to represent an SR Latch
S for set, R for Reset
nocturne galleon
switch<observer<piston/redstone-block<redstone-powder, each switch flick is a half tick meaning that the piston will extend, leaving the redstone block there to power the signal (1), and if you flick the switch back it will grab the redstone block back disconnecting the constant power and turning the bit to a 0
dim lava
So it's just a complcated switch ;P
nocturne galleon
essentially ;p, but thats also what a latch is
dim lava
A latch holds its value though, even if the input turns off
nocturne galleon
but thats not the point, the point is to store a bit's value, i flick the switch, turns into a 1, i flick the switch again, turns to a 0, this means that other components like half or full adders can access that signal without flicking a switch, the only difference between your design and mine is that yours uses a button to change the value, and mine uses a switch. which in my opinion is easier to conceptualize.
dim lava
I'm confused lol. If you take the switch away, does it hold its value?
nocturne galleon
no, but why would i need to take the switch away?
dim lava
Because that's what you need for a memory cell
Something that can hold its value, even if the driver of said value goes away
nocturne galleon
but why would the driver go away? there's no point. if your using a button to alter the bit, your design is superior, if your using a switch to alter the bit, mine is.
oh wait
LOL
the design still works if you take the switch away
dim lava
lol
nocturne galleon
because the redstone block will stay in place :p
although if you want to use a button with the design it will cause 4 ticks of delay instead of 1, which is why im using a switch, it just works for the use
dim lava
The point is in the future, you won't be using buttons
or switches
The CPU will be able to set/clear the memory on its own
Man this is making me want to download minecraft again lmao
nocturne galleon
yeah i know, but for now this is most convenient, i still know how a bit works, just using my mc knowledge to convenience me right now
dim lava
yeye
@nocturne galleon You should look into SR latches, SR flip flops, and D flip flops. Once you get into registers, DFF's will be at the core of each register
(a DFF is just an SR-FF where S = D and R = /D)
copper rivet
anyone got a link for a good guide for wordpress dev?
rancid nimbus
Are you wanting to build a website or develope for wordpress. There are better ways to make static websites that will out perform wordpress.
copper rivet
i'm looking to build a website, but nothing too crazy. i'm looking for a project to get a better idea of how it works
rancid nimbus
I use hugo to generate a static website. It is pretty easy to make a basic website. Choose a template write pages "compile" the website then upload it.
proper gale
what is the benefit of that vs set/reset NOR?
dim lava
@proper gale They're just learning and experimenting with new things
proper gale
well, that there is basically the gold standard for redstone registers
and has been for a loooong time
dim lava
is than an SR latch or FF
proper gale
SR
dim lava
right. latch or flip flop. ie, is it clock-edge activated or not
proper gale
top line is reset, bottom lines are set, and the lamps are seperated output
dim lava
Let me download minecraft rq and build my old design for SR latches
I had one that was 1x3x4
proper gale
set latency there is 2 tick, could be reduced to zero with an input line that sends direct to output and some repeaters, but that would add additional reset latency and really that latency isn't your bottleneck
the actual latch here is 1x2x3, rest is input/output wiring
dim lava
right right got it
I used mine a ton in survival because iirc it doesn't need any repeaters
proper gale
i like this design because its super stackable, doesnt need a gab, though IO from it is a PITA and slow
nocturne galleon
im looking mostly for speed, my goal by the end of next month is to be able to make a 16tick 32bit 8bit instruction length cpu with up to 1kb of programmable memory
it needs to be able to fetch, decode, read, write, and do complex calculations such as calculation a large amount of pi (the greatest cpu benchmark in my opinion) and calculating root numbers.
dim lava
32 bits is a LOT
dim lava
All you need to calculate pi is just division and addition
The real test of a CPU is its ability to run true programs, such as programs with branching
nocturne galleon
hmm, okay.
i heard that a good way to test a computer's capabilities is to see how many digits of pi it can calculate in 60 seconds
dim lava
This was the design I've always used
dim lava
i heard that a good way to test a computer's capabilities is to see how many dig...
You're very limited on clock speeds, CPI, and minecraft speeds itself
Minecraft computers can't tick very fast
nocturne galleon
yeah
but a 16tick should be good enough to pull off that kind of stuff... hold on
this is my resource of determination right now :>
dim lava
I'm trying to figure out how the heck i wired the resets together lol
nocturne galleon
?-?
dim lava
If you are just getting into digital logic, your first steps should be understanding the basics of computer architecture and understanding RTL logic
(once you get logic gates down)
nocturne galleon
okay
im watching a 41 part series by crash course to learn about computers
40*
dim lava
To have a true CPU, this is basically the architecture you'll end up with. Some of the specifics don't matter (like the sign extension part for branching, the 32-bit instruction, or the 3 register operands, etc), but all the major parts are there in one of the simplest ways you can represetn them
@nocturne galleon If you want to immediately apply it to minecraft redstone, watch Ben Eater's playlist on how to make an 8-bit breadboard computer. It will be much more helpful than the crash course videos
nocturne galleon
hmm...
but i learned how to make the adders from crash course, and what a 8bit adder is
within 10 minutes
dim lava
I gotta close minecraft out lol, this is way too laggy for my laptop (i'm nto at my home rn)
dim lava
they're both pretty long lol
but ben eater starts from a natural order in which you'd build a computer
nocturne galleon
ill do it if it helps, ill watch both u-u
dim lava
crash course's videos are meant more for thoeretical understanding for CS students taking exams
nocturne galleon
just to cement my understanding
dim lava
ben eater shows the implementation of everything
nocturne galleon
yeah, like how wires with higher frequency currents and more powerful currents have more interference due to the magnetism around them that they form
dim lava
If you want basic CPU stuff, you can forego the memory and the branching, or even the isntruction memory
dim lava
yeah, like how wires with higher frequency currents and more powerful currents h...
No that's the electrical engineering perspective
Ben eater doesn't deal with any of that
just the organization and architecture of the CPU and how you connect things together, and ESPECIALLY how you control things
he goes in great detail with pencil and paper too
nocturne galleon
thats what he stated IN his video ;-;
nocturne galleon
reeeee
dim lava
he connects everything on his breadboard
which is the pinnacle of electrical interference 
he's probably just explaining why you can't clock things high for example
nocturne galleon
he was explaining reasons why to make a computer project on a breadboard, and things that you have to look out for
dim lava
Yeah ofc, those parts aren't that relevant to you
the actual videos themselves have the juicy details
dim lava
You can definitely get away with manually inputting instructions and only having a register file for now
That should basically be step #1 (and i believe some of the first things he does in his videos)
just ALU and register file and being able to load registers manually with input from you or output from the ALU
nocturne galleon
im making a calculator essentially rn :>
dim lava
once you have register file set up, you can probably get away with not having memory for quite a while, if your register file is big enough
but after register file you'll want instruction memory
dim lava
(which in modern computers, instruction memory = data memory, but in minecraft it's probably best to do instruction memory separately)
dim lava
is 32kb enough?
oh absolutely
nocturne galleon
twas just a joke
dim lava
lol
nocturne galleon
that would be 3200 bites, i would have to make 3200 bytes of memory O_O
wait no
32000*
dead
dim lava
this is what world edit is for
nocturne galleon
i got it already
dim lava
you make a modular memory cell, use that to make a modular memory row, then use that to make a modular memory bank
and repeatedly copy the banks
nocturne galleon
okay, im done for now, ill look back on this when ready
tired juniper
hey I got a question about graphics. C# Why when I do this and move my Graphics with a timer it still flickers?
DoubleBuffered = true;
SetStyle(ControlStyles.OptimizedDoubleBuffer, true);
SetStyle(ControlStyles.AllPaintingInWmPaint, true);
isn't this supposed to eliminate flicker?
nocturne galleon
@dim lava you win, i realize the fault in my design xD, when the switch is removed the value turns back to zero, because the observer see's a block update ;-;
ill go back to my old design which prioritized speed and was less compact, but speed is important :>
dim lava
<@!138014214093668353> you win, i realize the fault in my design xD, when the sw...
i don't know if BUDs work in large designs cause of chunk loading restrictions
nocturne galleon
buds?
dim lava
Block update detector
nocturne galleon
huh, maybe not
dim lava
You had some behavior there that you said detected the block update
nocturne galleon
another reason i guess
yeah, for the old memory design that requires a driver to be powered
dim lava
You should look at the minecraft wiki for sr latches and d flip flops
You can use the designs on there
Mc wiki is soooo helpful for this stuff
dim lava
The challenge in making a redstone computer isn't the basic components like latches and full adders. Those take just a lot of trial and error to make as small as possible. The real challenge is, how do you connect everything together so that it becomes a fully functioning cpu?
nocturne galleon
dim lava
Is that a pulse generator?
nocturne galleon
yeah, but right now im focusing on optimization... and that is a storage cell, courtesy of mumbo jumbo, a mc youtuber that dabbles with redstone
dim lava
I remember him lol
A lot more than dabbles
He does a lot of piston doors and moving contraptions
nocturne galleon
i found a pretty useful video
essentially a super compact adder
and shifter/selector if you add the extra bits that he shows
nocturne galleon
So I'm trying to make an Android app with fairly basic functions. Most of them I'm not quite sure how to word search terms to find how to do them, and one I've tried many different methods and none have worked. I'm using C# with Xamarin Forms in Visual Studio 2019. I should note that I am not a programmer. I just want a function that looks like it doesn't exist, and I very much can't afford to pay someone else to do it.
The one I tried: I want dark mode. Every method of doing it that I've found has either not worked and thrown errors, or isn't clear enough for me to do.
The rest (not sure how to search for them): I want to be able to made a new document, save/save as, and open documents.
The goal of the app is to let me write music while away from my PC without needing paper and pencil, specifically guitar tab.
ornate crown
are you trying to write your own notation software with no programming experience @nocturne galleon ?
nocturne galleon
Not quite. Guitar tab is a graph of how many strings you have and you put an actual number for the fret you play on that string
Looks like this
ornate crown
so tab notation?
nocturne galleon
Yeah
nocturne galleon
Yeah, I can worry about that part later. Before I get in the weeds I'm trying to get the basic look and function down
ornate crown
if you haven't actually started and want to get into app development
I would recommend react native > c#
learning js, a little regular react, and then react native
it allows you to have an iOS and android app on essentially the same codebase
nocturne galleon
I have extremely limited experience with C# from several years ago when I tried to get into programming. The main draw is Visual Studio's visual element since doing more than console stuff on non visual environments is sorcery to me
ornate crown
regardless, I still highly recommend react native
react native runs on android, android tv, ios, macos, tvos, web, and windows
(windows includes xbox, mr, all that fun stuff)
nocturne galleon
Do I have to install more than I already have with the normal Windows and Android packages? It was a feat to get the Android stuff to install correctly
ornate crown
you should learn js before react native just as you should learn c# before xamarin
nocturne galleon
Cool, I'll just uninstall VS
nocturne galleon
I'll pass
ornate crown
you're not gonna be writing an app unless you understand a programming language first...
and honestly, js is a far more simpler language than c#
nocturne galleon
Either way, it doesn't help that Xamarin forms don't seem to have much flexibility with the form editor.
ornate crown
wait, I had no idea xamarin was cross platform 🤦♂️
that's pretty cool
I will still fall to lord zuckerberg and react though
nocturne galleon
I'm just not going to install yet another IDE that will struggle to install
ornate crown
you need to learn a programming language
and learn an app framework that uses that language
nocturne galleon
And I do have some experience with C#. I'm not going to just start over
ornate crown
I think you'll find JS to be far simpler than C#
nocturne galleon
I'm not using JS.
nocturne galleon
Considering literally everything I've tried to install for programming has had a hell of a time even downloading correctly, I'm not. The program I have works and I'm able to use USB debugging for my phone since the emulators will not work regardless of what I do to them. It's nice if it works for you. I'm not about to deal with even more frustration
Besides, once this app is done I'm not writing a single line of code again
ornate crown
@nocturne galleon I'm sorry but it's just unfeasible to program an app with no experience and no desire to learn
nocturne galleon
The only thing I said I don't want to learn is JS
Me posting here is because my searches came back with either no useful information or solutions that don't work
ornate crown
ok even with C#, you can't just jump straight into Xamarin and drag and drop visual components and expect a functioning app
nocturne galleon
Yeah, I'm aware of that
With VS, Xamarin is how you do Android apps in C#. C++ can be done without Xamarin (I think, based on how the VS page for it is worded), but that's the same situation as JS. I'm not going to restart learning
ornate crown
Java is the native language for Android apps
Swift/Objective-C are the native languages for iOS apps
Xamarin is a cross platform framework that uses C#
nocturne galleon
And the only thing I've heard about Java is don't
warm sleet
@ornate crown there are various libraries to do this
Phonegap is another one
Cordova is really popular too
Ionic is also quite common
@nocturne galleon best environment to develop android apps on is still Kotlin
Its a java dialect with some glue code to build android apps more easily
if you've already done some .NET, using java should be quite straightforward
building cross-platform apps almost always is done with HTML, CSS and javascript
nocturne galleon
I am not looking for the best environment to do it in. The details I have in my original post won't change.
warm sleet
Yeah but writing .NET for android is not really efficient
there's a lot of magic behind the scenes to make it work on android
nocturne galleon
This program is barely going to have any function to it. Being efficient literally won't matter
warm sleet
and often, you'll be spending more time getting it to work on Xamarin, than it would be if you just wrote a normal android activity
@nocturne galleon efficient as in: time spent writing code
Xamarin is quite awful if you just want a simple android activity that displays some information
nocturne galleon
It's already incredibly frustrating trying to learn. It's even more so when people repeatedly tell you to use something else
warm sleet
Yeah, but you're trying to get debugging going on .NET with android
that on its own, is already a hellhole, I would never put myself in
if you download android studio
you have a working app within 5 mins
warm sleet
elaborate "doesnt work"
nocturne galleon
Necessary to function packages won't install
warm sleet
you can do that with the NDK
Android development kit
package manager should be in android studio
there, you can select the android version you are building for
nocturne galleon
NDK was one that refused to install
warm sleet
going to replicate this real quick :)
@nocturne galleon did it get stuck here? https://i.imgur.com/dvqdU2x.png
nocturne galleon
After that
It was several parts downloaded in the setup and another thing once you open the IDE
warm sleet
NDK is usually supplied seperately
android studio bundles it
its unpacking right now... lets see if it errors out
[SC] StartService FAILED with error 4294967201.
Android Emulator Hypervisor Driver for AMD Processors installation failed. To install Android Emulator Hypervisor Driver for AMD Processors follow the instructions found at: https://github.com/google/android-emulator-hypervisor-driver-for-amd-processors
I guess that is expected, since I have virtualization disabled on my system, but I'll just ignore this for now
nocturne galleon
The ones I remember were:
NDK, Gradle (I think that's how you spell it), Some packages about system architectures, and literally every emulator
warm sleet
I created a new project
Gradle is the build tool
comparable to Nuget on .NET
though gradle can do a lot more
nocturne galleon
This is all well and good, but doesn't help me a bit
warm sleet
Any errors you get, if you post them here
I'm sure I can figure it out
From what i can see, I can debug just fine
it created a project, and compiles
nocturne galleon
I'm not using Android Studio, Java, JavaScript, or Kotlin. I just want to use what I know works
warm sleet
Kotlin is the official one, the one you'll find most support for online
using .NET for android is a cheese
you make it more difficult than it has to be
ornate crown
<@456226577798135808> best environment to develop android apps on is still Kotli...
that's subjective
kotlin may be more performant than react native
warm sleet
@ornate crown its not about code performance
ornate crown
but all in all, I think cross-platform libraries are better
ornate crown
therefore react native makes the most sense?
warm sleet
and its not fun, when you get into rendering issues and such
React is like all the other HTML5 apps
those are all the same to me
works, best way to make cross platform work
if you need native performance, its more tricky
warm sleet
@nocturne galleon you reject any suggestion to learn something else
nocturne galleon
Because I'd have to use an IDE that doesn't install correctly
warm sleet
then you are doing something wrong, don't blame it on the IDE
nocturne galleon
And I already have a very basic understanding of C#
warm sleet
Yeah but C# isnt going to help you build android apps easily
its the wrong tool for the job
nocturne galleon
I download and hit install. The IDE does the rest and fails at it
nocturne galleon
I just told you it wouldn't download needed packages
warm sleet
yes... but why?
nocturne galleon
The error message was a slightly more verbose "Failed to download". No specific error codes
warm sleet
I suggest you run it again, and post a screenshot ^^
nocturne galleon
I suggest people stop trying to get me to use something I have said repeatedly I will not use. I have a set up that does compile and does put a functioning apk on my phone. I'm not messing with any additional software
warm sleet
fine
whatever
then dont post here complaining, and then rejecting any suggestion
also; if you ever want to learn something: be open to the new.
nocturne galleon
I was very specific in what I needed help with, and the response I got was to not use the one setup that works for me
No real help was provided
I was ignored
warm sleet
No you weren't
and the response was justified
but I dont want to argue
you clearly have it all working
nocturne galleon
And I'm sorry I'm being short with you, Crystal. I've been arguing with Beaker about it for a while now
warm sleet
Its cool
hollow basalt
Its cool
hollow basalt
No
fleet geyser
XD
tired juniper
hey can I use the mousecoords in C# as a public variable? I need them but I can use them only in the mouseclick event now with the MouseEventArgs
fleet geyser
Can you send the code?
fleet geyser
alright so what you exactly need?
tired juniper
So this draws a Graphic when I click on the mouse(and the tmUpdate starts the timer control from WinForms and moves the Graphic around). However it creates its own graphic separate from the one that is made with a mouseclick. I want it to use the Graphic that I make using the mouseclick and move THAT around
fleet geyser
Well I'm programming in Java and not C# but they're very similar.
tired juniper
so either use the mousepos variable in another method which can't happen or get the mousecoords to be public
fleet geyser
well
just
put
outside of any functions
at the begiining
of the class
public int mouseX;
public int mouseY;
and just define them
in the function
fleet geyser
yeah?
mouseX = 173;
on ex.
same with mouseY
and same with any other such variable
tired juniper
well yeah but then how is the other method gonna see that value? The timer method?
fleet geyser
no
uh
so
when you define the variable
that's
outside of any method
so
you define it
outside of any method
and you set its value
in some function
that value isn't set "locally"
its set globally for that variable
so just put mouseX or any other variable
in any other function
and if its defined in some other function it will see that same value
tired juniper
that value isn't set "locally"
so if I set the value in a method the same value can be accessed by another one?
fleet geyser
yeah...
tired juniper
huh ok I will try that I thought everything in the method was local
fleet geyser
no
if method is defined outside of that method
*variable
anything you do to that variable inside any method
will be global
(in most cases)
warm sleet
is this winforms?
tired juniper
is this winforms?
yup
warm sleet
@tired juniper are you trying to make changes to the form, in an event?
because you should use BeginInvoke() for that
render thread is seperate from the event pump
@tired juniper point is scoped locally
so its not available in tmUpdate()
if you wish to make it a property of your form
you should define it as a class field
instead of a variable in a method
tired juniper
<@!174128983774986240> `point` is scoped locally
yeah I figured it out.just made it public
warm sleet
@tired juniper nah
public private has nothing to do with this
its scoped to that method
fleet geyser
i don't like c#
tired juniper
I should have tried at least to do what you said not just assume it won't work
warm sleet
class Foo {
Point MyPoint {get; set;}
//... class body here
}
no I make the variables public and then assign values in the mouseclick method so it uses e as mousecoords
warm sleet
This would define MyPoint as a property of Foo
tired juniper
and then use them in the timer method and it works
warm sleet
@tired juniper you should use properties, instead of variables
tired juniper
yeah but it works with variables
fleet geyser
you should use Java 😂
warm sleet
@fleet geyser I do both C# and java :P
tired juniper
and don't be offended but just what you are suggesting is a bit more complicated to me than variables and if it works it's good enough
warm sleet
@tired juniper nah, but this is a nice way to define properties of your objects
tired juniper
well maybe I will😆
warm sleet
it automatically generates a getter and setter function, which you could customize later on
cool thing with properties is you can do this:
Point MyPoint {get; private set;}
this way its public, but only class-private can update the value
this way its public, but only class-private can update the value
tired juniper
it automatically generates a getter and setter function, which you *could* custo...
well yeah I might learn it just to be able to do more stuff in general you have a point
warm sleet
@tired juniper you can also create a private variable, and then make your property accessor get fetch a value from your private variable
tired juniper
<@!174128983774986240> you can also create a `private` variable, and then make y...
that's nice
warm sleet
private int wat = 32
int FooProperty {
get {
return wat;
}
set {
wat = value;
}
}
@tired juniper like so ^
this gives you control over what goes in and out
though you don't do this most of the time
tired juniper
oh yeah I have done that before actually
warm sleet
Java is incredibly verbose, and doesnt have property members
in java, you just create a getFoo and setFoo
fleet geyser
😄
warm sleet
@fleet geyser do you know lombok?
fleet geyser
nope
tired juniper
though you don't do this most of the time
but yeah this is for more advanced stuff. f you just want to do simple things you don't need it ,but it's cool definitely
fleet geyser
well
warm sleet
Its compiler sugar for java
warm sleet
lombok does it during compilation
warm sleet
and it integrates with maven
warm sleet
so you just designate a @Getter above your variable
tired juniper
automagiclly Xd
I love when things happen automagically
warm sleet
and it generates those during compilation
warm sleet
@fleet geyser if you make a class that purely holds data, you can add a @Data above the class
This generates, getters and setters ,as well as hashCode(), equals() toString() etc
fleet geyser
👍
warm sleet
@fleet geyser in that regard, I would favor C# over Java
fleet geyser
ah maybe
warm sleet
because C# as a language, has more features
fleet geyser
but i like java
cuz java is more bare bones
but
it allows you to create a lot of libraries
warm sleet
do you know any other languages ?
I wouldn't bash on a language, unless you know how to program in it :P
warm sleet
@fleet geyser power of lombok: https://i.imgur.com/xaBanrn.png
warm sleet
ah yes it does that too
@fleet geyser though I'd be careful with that
not every IDE has lombok support
IDEA does. which is nice
fleet geyser
yup
warm sleet
maven will compile it just fine
warm sleet
its just the autocomplete that has to know about lombok
fleet geyser
And Maven
warm sleet
and needs a plugin
warm sleet
so does every student :P
fleet geyser
GAGAHGAHAHA
I somehow
Forced my friend to try
programminga
And I setuped Intelliij for him
In like
5 mins?
Xd
If it recognizes your mail
warm sleet
One of my favorite IDEA features https://i.imgur.com/zmy6jsx.png
warm sleet
JavaEE integration is so useful :)
fleet geyser
Please tell me taht isn't default intellij theme
warm sleet
?
fleet geyser
Are you using Intellij's default theme or some other theme plugin?
I really don't like Intellij's default themes lol
warm sleet
Its just dracula
fleet geyser
uh
fleet geyser
GAGAHAGAHGA
I like to customize my IDE so I can enjoy it Xd
I use Material UI Oceanic
warm sleet
I use my IDEs to get work done.
fleet geyser
aghahgaaha
warm sleet
not to make a carnival happen
fleet geyser
agaghhahhha
well theme i use
isn't anything special
just some color scheme and oceanic coor
xd
*color
warm sleet
https://i.imgur.com/1CiMni8.png ¯_(ツ)_/¯
warm sleet
idk why ur trying so hard to laugh
dim lava
I really don't like Intellij's default themes lol
Just download a theme you like
fleet geyser
Ye
fleet geyser
idk why ur trying so hard to laugh
nah i'm not trying nor i want
i just like putting GAGHAAHA cuz it doesn't sound mean
XD
warm sleet
@fleet geyser favoring one language over another isnt really gonna help you at work
fleet geyser
yeah i know i just prefer java
warm sleet
being flexible, programming in a wide range of languages, that's where true skill lies.
fleet geyser
for things like server side etc.
however
i prefer java
*C#
for Client applications
warm sleet
Server side I would almost always pick Java
fleet geyser
Yup
warm sleet
Client really depends on what I would be making
fleet geyser
I would use C#
yeah
And I would maybe use Java for client too
Cuz I'm lazy learning new language for Linux and Mac
warm sleet
really depends on what the target is
fleet geyser
If I put Bundled Jar in program
It can run on pretty much any OS with minimal modifications
😄
warm sleet
yeah, until you have to do native integration xD
warm sleet
I've written programs in Java before that were augmented with bits of C
though you need to compile that library for every target platform
which kinda defeats the purpose of java
warm sleet
nah
fleet geyser
without learning 3 new langs
warm sleet
easier would be to just write C
fleet geyser
but
as far as i know
C langs only work on Windows (you could use something like Wine, but lets be real that's not great)
fleet geyser
Oh
warm sleet
C compiles to any architecture
warm sleet
and C standard library doesnt change
fleet geyser
welp i'm stupid then
dim lava
C is probably the most cross platform language there is frankly
dim lava
There is a C compiler for so many rando architecture you've never heard of
warm sleet
most of the time you just have to provide a different header
fleet geyser
I really don't like C and C==
warm sleet
but thats just for userspace syscalls
warm sleet
@dim lava yeah... no xD All that mutex crap I got sick of reaaal quick
dim lava
C++ 20 has some new really good threading constructs
fleet geyser
if you were able to
dim lava
I use C++ for Arduino
Arduino C++ isn't really C+;
fleet geyser
i wouldn't be going crazy every time i need to write arduino code
Alright its based on C++ whatever lol
warm sleet
only bits of C++ I've ever written was a compat library for a project of mine
So my code would be compatible on both avr-atmel and armv7
dim lava
It's a heavily restricted version of C++ that is basically just C with a few random C++ features
I've had some really fun adventures with C++ and AVR
dim lava
I spent about 30 hours getting Clang to compile C++20 for an Atmel micro controller
warm sleet
@fleet geyser there isnt
warm sleet
Arduinos run machine code.
fleet geyser
i know
warm sleet
so you need a language that compiles to machine code.
dim lava
JS is even harder no
warm sleet
Java is a VM language
fleet geyser
or more
dim lava
It's a microcontroller, there is no operating system or runtime environment
fleet geyser
ik that too
warm sleet
^
fleet geyser
uh
warm sleet
@fleet geyser if you know all of this, why you ask such a stupid question? xD
dim lava
Therefore managed languages like Java or JS cannot run in it
warm sleet
I've been a programmer for 10 years
fleet geyser
I've been for 2
warm sleet
Right
warm sleet
@dim lava I got a plan for this bag of NRF24L's I have
Gonna turn the new greenhouse we have, into a 'smart' greenhouse
dim lava
New assignment yesterday, understand the fuck out of AES and Galois theory so i can make an advanced extension off an open source AES accelerator core
dim lava
<@!138014214093668353> I got a plan for this bag of NRF24L's I have
Gonna turn t...
Awesome
warm sleet
I looked online for those automated gardening water systems
thought $500 for a starter kit was outrageous
dim lava
I really liked that in highschool i took 4 years of an engineering class
warm sleet
@dim lava I did a major in software development, and then took a half year minor course in embedded development
dim lava
So like i can do drafting, design, and some construction if i need to
warm sleet
lot of fun tinkering with electronics, rasperry pi's and arduinos
warm sleet
I never learned PCB design
dim lava
I've done a little bit of it
warm sleet
I did manage to make a couple designs in KiCad
dim lava
I mostly focus on FPGAs
fleet geyser
use EasyEDA
warm sleet
figuring out how netlists and such work
fleet geyser
it has community with 1000s of templates
dim lava
I'm currently in a computer engineering major, I've done embedded internships, and right now I'm in academic research for analytical hardware security
warm sleet
@dim lava in the other campus, I actually saw embedded engineering students etch their own PCBs
I scoffed at that, and just ordered mine online xD
fleet geyser
agahgaahgaha
dim lava
Considering i hate chemistry i probably wouldnt try to etch myself
fleet geyser
and you can choose black color for free
warm sleet
@dim lava photolithography ftw
fleet geyser
I ordered 5 of PCBs with them, tho shipping was 3 months because of corona, quality is real good
dim lava
If you're American use OSH Park. Made in US and they have purple PCBs 
dim lava
Bit more expensive but from what I've heard faster turn around and shipping times
warm sleet
I have primarily red PCBs xD
dim lava
Oh yeah then JLC is probably best lol
fleet geyser
I use black ones
warm sleet
@dim lava I remember one of the assignments, making a virtual traffic light system on a breadboard
I thought this was so incredibly boring, that I asked my teacher if I could do something else
he agreed, and I made a DMX controller with a desktop program that communicates with the chip over serial :D
fleet geyser
LOL
warm sleet
fleet geyser
agayhgaghaghahaha
warm sleet
I controlled a set of stage fixtures with that
dim lava
he agreed, and I made a DMX controller with a desktop program that communicates ...
Love it
Right now in my Microprocessors 2 class, we're making an RTOS for ARM and the final project is an internet-connected video game
warm sleet
@dim lava lol. I'd almost grab buildroot and use raspberry pi with an RT kernel
dim lava
We're starting everything from scratch
fleet geyser
Right now in my Microprocessors 2 class, we're making an RTOS for ARM and the fi...
wdym?
with microcontrollers?
dim lava
Rtos - real time operating system, meant for tasks that occur frequently or rarely that must be completed as soon as possible
And yeah, an ARM Microprocessor
warm sleet
things like network switches and such, modems and other communication gear
fleet geyser
aha
warm sleet
almost always use realtime programming
@dim lava any specific tools you guys are using for developing this realtime OS ?
fleet geyser
i would love to know what would be classified as micro processor in 80s when your PC was actually micro computer
warm sleet
@dim lava erlang is quite powerful for stuff like this :)
warm sleet
tough. xD
dim lava
No stl
warm sleet
@fleet geyser you know your microwave, has a display, buttons and dials ?
fleet geyser
agahgahgha
warm sleet
if it has buttons and dials, it has a microcontroller inside
dim lava
I'm a forever C++ guy, but I've seen a lot of potential for Rust in the embedded space and I've been pondering it
fleet geyser
probably Xd
tired juniper
tough. xD
hey you or anyone else know how to reduce flickering when I set the timer interval to very low like 30ms? I tried Double Buffering but didn't work
warm sleet
@tired juniper what do you mean flickering?
tired juniper
well the graphic flickers when it moves around because the panel refreshes very quickly I guess
warm sleet
@tired juniper if you are making changes to the layout, you should call SuspendLayout()
fleet geyser
you could try googling, because not every time will you find an answer in discord
warm sleet
then make your changes
after which you can resume layout
this should reduce any sort of flickering in your form
tired juniper
and my screen refresh rate can't cope up I guess
warm sleet
@tired juniper nah
tired juniper
<@!174128983774986240> if you are making changes to the layout, you should call ...
ok I will try that
warm sleet
tired juniper
you could try googling, because not every time will you find an answer in discor...
I tried a few stuff from Google but didn't work
dim lava
@warm sleet I'm trying to understand these galois fields... It's so confusing lmao
Abstract math that has applications in cryptography
warm sleet
@dim lava My calculus knowledge is serviceable at best
dim lava
It's pretty far from calculus
warm sleet
I'm running on highschool math. with some things I taught myself
dim lava
Finite prime fields
Calculus is all about them infinites
Galois is all about that modular math
warm sleet
Still goes above my head, sorry
warm sleet
Yea
dim lava
It's that, but with prime numbers
warm sleet
last time I had heavy maths involved in programming
was when I was working on telemetry systems for sewers
calculating flowrate based on sensor values
dim lava
I need to try to represent this in hardware
warm sleet
fuck tonn of geometry.
dim lava
Oof
warm sleet
@dim lava cus a pipe is round
and if water level on the intake is above the pipe
gravity comes into play
dim lava
I'm good at math and calculus, but this is all super far removed from anything i know
It's heavily involved with group theory and number theory
warm sleet
well, it involved integrating and interpolating values
over a set range of 2 million values
with 15 minute intervals
I was tasked with this, because the old implementation in PHP was slow and faulty
dim lava
That's when you just use numpy and go do something else 
warm sleet
They used doctrine and laravel
warm sleet
Yeah thankfully i rarely had to deal with that
but.. I did have to read 2000 lines of php code
ultimately, I scrapped that code, and took the reference material that was used to write it
and reimplement the whole thing.
went from 45 seconds execution, to just under 4
fleet geyser
oh php
dim lava
The people that like to shit on JS obviously have never dealt with PHP 😂
warm sleet
PHP is. awful
fleet geyser
GHAHAEGAHA
fleet geyser
yeah....
dim lava
Awful to maintain
warm sleet
@dim lava that really depends on who writes it
warm sleet
you can write maintainable code in php, somewhat.
but its OO constructs are.. so flaky too
If you ever want to giggle at PHP ^
This article is great
its full of sarcasm and humor
dim lava
The worst is that the includes are all fucking relative to the first includer... So you end up putting everything in the same directory with no organization at all
dim lava
https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
Oh I've read this site multiple times lmao
dim lava
Basically every time i would finish a site I would read through it again to save myself
From the anguish that followed
warm sleet
@dim lava you run into an issue
you figure out that an ini_set would fix it
then your co-worker comes at your desk, angrily yells at you: you can use ini_set! that is dangerous.
doesn't elaborate why
dim lava
I've thankfully never had to use that
dim lava
Lol
warm sleet
you can break something elsewhere
@dim lava https://i.imgur.com/Az1mdgY.png
at least java has List<T>
dim lava
LMAO
@warm sleet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galois/Counter_Mode thisis what i'm trying to understand
warm sleet
@dim lava xD have you checked section 2.5? xD
dim lava
I'm gettin there lol
warm sleet
@tired juniper there isnt one
pretty sure with WPF you're supposed to use the event handler provided by the control
which doesnt have a MouseClickEvent
only button click and such
waxen mesa
Could you not handle an event for MouseLeftButtonUp or MouseLeftButtonDown? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/silverlight/dotnet-windows-silverlight/ms596681(v=vs.95)?redirectedfrom=MSDN
warm sleet
@waxen mesa Silverlight?
You got the wrong library there bud
though I guess this would be a generic type for such an event
waxen mesa
<@!272151652344266762> Silverlight?
doh! Yes I do sorry my bad
orchid basin
What is your opinion about the Electron framework?
hollow basalt
Yes
warm sleet
@orchid basin because of electron, by the year 2050 we'll need double the amount of powerplants
most bloated application framework I've ever come across
orchid basin
true, but except that?
warm sleet
what do you mean?
discord eats memory for breakfast, and CPU is pinned when you scroll through chat history
that's electron for ya.
orchid basin
what do you mean?
Except all the bloat, what is good about it?
warm sleet
idunno? simple framework to develop cross platform applications with?
my main issue with electron is the fact that its just a webbrowser in disguise
orchid basin
my main issue with electron is the fact that its just a webbrowser in disguise
Yes, true also. I try to look past that with the ease of development if your expertise is web sites
midnight wind
Except all the bloat, what is *good* about it?
cross platform
one unified codebase
but that's about it
you can use the same devs maybe?
warm sleet
@midnight wind its for people who need more than just a web API
it provides integration with hardware and native access
something you cannot do in a browser
but tbh, its just a bloated framework to build multimedia applications
and its just enough javascript to tell a webdev to become an app dev
midnight wind
<@!222482269829332992> its for people who need more than just a web API
well yeah
ofc
warm sleet
@midnight wind I guess its easy, a browser takes care of providing a unified API to all common multimedia IO
such as microphone, media decoding, video streaming, notifications
and this is why discord can act as a desktop app, as well as use microphone in a webbrowser
but things like desktop screen sharing, would only work on electron, because it uses native APIs to do this
features like application sharing (instead of a single screen) would include audio on windows, this feature isnt available on linux last I checked
hollow basalt
but things like desktop screen sharing, would only work on electron, because it ...
do you mean desktop screen would only work on electron and not regular browsers?
I'm asking that in general (library neutral), if you mean it's not possible to do in browsers
warm sleet
@hollow basalt because you can just use a native process to stream this data to a socket that electron can read
you can't spawn this process from within a browser.
hollow basalt
Is that a yes or no
I'm asking in general, a yes or no question
not caring about library or frameworks whatsoever to achieve
warm sleet
@hollow basalt this is iG
a browser is sandboxed.
and thus cannot access native APIs on the system
hollow basalt
Still not a yes or no
warm sleet
electron cheats, because it is launched as a native process.
@hollow basalt if you understand what i am saying, you can answer this yourself
hollow basalt
So you won't answer it?
warm sleet
nope
hollow basalt
got it
warm sleet
because your question wouldnt be a yes no
because electron isnt the only framework out there
tired juniper
<@!174128983774986240> there isnt one
ok. By the way in Windows forms how do I make the subform not close when I click the ok button. I have a messagebox pop up and then the form closes. How do I make it not close? if anyone else knows they can answer as well
warm sleet
@tired juniper depends on your application context
you can use Form.ShowDialog() to create a new window, that is not a popup
tired juniper
you can use `Form.ShowDialog()` to create a new window, that is not a popup
yeah but I mean when I click ok on the actual form the pop up comes then I click ok on the pop up and then the form closes(it's a subform of my mainform.) How do I make it not close(the form) when I click the ok button on the form?
warm sleet
you are using a messagebox?
those are not a dialog or form
merely a messagebox
you can't customize those, beyond what the API allows you to
tired juniper
you are using a messagebox?
no the messagebox is not that important,it might have been any event. I just want in a particular case when I click ok on the form(it's a button on the subform of my mainform) the subform to stay open instead of close
warm sleet
well, you created the event handler for that button ?
tired juniper
well, you created the event handler for that button ?
yeah
warm sleet
by default a form does not have a 'close' button, except the X in the window itself
so I am not sure what you are getting at
tired juniper
yeah but when I click ok it closes(it's a subform)
tired juniper
yeah
warm sleet
that's a dialog.
tired juniper
well yeah
tired juniper
yeah
warm sleet
forms are closed by calling Form.Close()
tired juniper
and how do I do the opposite? When I click ok is there a way to keep it open?
warm sleet
not calling that function?
tired juniper
well,can you call the function click and then it pops up a messagebox but after you close the messagebox it doesn't close the dialog(subform)
warm sleet
yes, that's an event handler of your form, calling a message box
the messagebox returns a result when you close it
if you evaluate that, you can then decide on what to do
tired juniper
ok,thanks! so in my case I put it on the OK button of the dialog(subform)
warm sleet
wait what
we're not talking about the same thing here...
because you cannot customize the layout of a MessageBox
tired juniper
no,I mean that result thing which I set to none I put it on the OK button of the dialog? Or the MessageBox?
warm sleet
Look, a form can be opened in two ways: either a seperate window, or a dialog
Dialogs force themselve ontop, and have to be closed before you can interact with the parent
MessageBoxes are their own thing on their own
they behave like dialogs
tired juniper
yeah I know but in order not to close my dialog I assume I put that result on the OK button of the dialog itself?
warm sleet
?!
tired juniper
oh wait no, I will try something I think I got it
warm sleet
@tired juniper idk what you are doing
but this is how you close a form
a button doesnt 'close' by default
tired juniper
well I have my DialogResult for my button to OK. So when I click it it closes the dialog. But when I set DialogResult to none for the button it still closes the dialog. That's what bothers me. Isn't it supposed to stay open then?
warm sleet
no
dialogs are for a dialogue between the user and the computer
they close when the dialogue has finished
when you do MessageBox.Show() the code halts execution at that point, until the dialog closes
tired juniper
yeah but can I keep it open after the messagebox is finished and closed,using what you sent me in the screenshot?
tired juniper
https://i.imgur.com/LsLLBSB.png
this one
warm sleet
private void Button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) {
var result = MessageBox.Show("foo", "bar", MessageBoxButtons.YesNo);
MessageBox.Show($"You selected: {result.ToString()}");
}
@tired juniper these things are ment to close as soon as you click one of the buttons
thats what a MessageBox is.
if you need more custom functionality in such a dialog, you make a new form
and spawn it, instead of a MessageBox
tired juniper
When I click ok on the MessageBox,the "ValidationForm" closes. I want to keep it open
warm sleet
my brain can't read cyrrilic
tired juniper
well ignore it imagine it's any string
warm sleet
@tired juniper how do you spawn the validation form?
tired juniper
ValidationForm.ShowDialog()
warm sleet
okay, can you show me the code behind ValidationForm?
the bit that is interesting, is in the validationform, where you call your messagebox
tired juniper
warm sleet
you put that in the constructor ?
tired juniper
and just in case this is the whole thing but it's complicated https://paste.mod.gg/citewejozo.cs
tired juniper
you put that in the constructor ?
which one?
tired juniper
that's because if there are no errors, it should enter everything that was in the validationform,in the main form once you click ok
but now because I can't keep the Validation form from closing it always does it
button_ok.DialogResult = DialogResult.None;
I tried this but it still closes
warm sleet
im recreating this setup real quick
in an empty project
doesnt happen here
I have two forms
Form1 spawns Form2 when I press a button, form2 has another button, when pressed will spawn a messagebox
but it doesnt close the parent for me
@tired juniper are you sure there's no uncaught exception you are missing?
tired juniper
<@!174128983774986240> are you sure there's no uncaught exception you are missin...
oh yeah it was the exception I think
there was an exception
tired juniper
well whatever, I am just gonna deal with the exception and it's fine
anyway thanks for the help!
warm sleet
@tired juniper this is why I hate .NET honestly lol
there's so much shit that happens underneath, that you dont ever see
and if you do something wrong, you get odd behavior
tired juniper
yeah
warm sleet
Exception thrown: 'System.Exception' in WindowsFormsApp2.exe
An unhandled exception of type 'System.Exception' occurred in WindowsFormsApp2.exe
reeeee
tired juniper
xD because in some of his old videos he used to do that sound "reeeeee!".His period where the videos were kinda crazy
he would jump out of the cupboard and scream reeeeee!
warm sleet
first time I saw it being used as a meme was in one of h3's videos
tired juniper
yeah I guess it's a popular meme so YouTubers use it
or it was I don't know if it still is
warm sleet
This is just your average degenerate "influencer"
warm sleet
its just boring popular culture
tired juniper
well yeah
tired juniper
it goes in the if sentence in the try,sets the Dialog Result of the OK button to None and then exits the method and closes the dialog? Why??? Liteally no reason
any other scenario where it sets it to none it doesn't close
I checked the value was set to None and it still closed it. and in other cases where there is setting dialogresult to none(other if sentences or anywhere else in code it works and does not close)
warm sleet
@tired juniper do you know how to use the debugger?
tired juniper
yes I used it. I literally saw it skipping the else sentence going into the if before that and then exiting the method and straight up closing the dialog
and returning to the code that calls it in the main form
and the if clause sets Dialogresult to none even checked locals it's None alright and it still closes
also no exception it doesn't go into the catch
warm sleet
so that dialog is unrelated
but the source is the code that you call that Validator with
tired juniper
yeah and what then?
warm sleet
how do you create this validator in MainForm ?
tired juniper
private void button_form_Click(object sender, EventArgs e)
{
ValidationForm validationForm = new ValidationForm(this);
validationForm.ShowDialog();
}