Well that's a base RS, idk what the standard equipment is like
#cars
stoic ledge
low carbon
The solar rejection of the heated windscreen is nice but not worth the money for me
I would’ve optioned the family pack if I was told about it...
eager grove
I just don't do enough miles for a diesel is the problem
stoic ledge
Stuff like pano roof, metallic paint etc were optional, but I don't have a full pricing list
low carbon
Imagine paying for metallic paint
It’s an absolute joke
The options I ordered were upgraded wheels, pano roof, towbar + trailer assist, acoustic glass and direct TPMS
Everything else is standard in New Zealand
eager grove
I like the Kodiaq as well
but there's something I really don't like about the back end of the Octavia's from the previous generation
low carbon
that's mine
stoic ledge
👀
low carbon
yes
i had a 2017 style model before ordering the RS
both of them are the most optioned out ones in the country
it's so stupid - local spec sheets don't actually show the available options
eager grove
What do you do? Fuck I'd love to be able to buy a new car
stoic ledge
Why ordering a new car so often? Don't you loose a lot on depreciation?
eager grove
Mind you, the only new ones I actually want are electric, so who knows
low carbon
@stoic ledge never did it before man, before the 2017 kodiaq i had a 2007 nissan x-trail from new
stoic ledge
👀
eager grove
3 cars I'm looking at are that passat wagon, an Arteon or a Golf R wagon
eager grove
might wait a year and see if the Arteon or Golf R wagon come down in price
Sounds like you and I have similar taste!
low carbon
too bad the price gap between normal and premium brands here are far too much
eager grove
Bit worried the Golf R wagon would be a little stiff on british roads, but it's the narrowest of the three, and the city roads here are so pokey, I don't particularly want a wider car
low carbon
my spec kodiaq rs was nz$75ish, but a new x5 30d in my spec is easily $160+
stoic ledge
Atleast you can have the premium engine options 👀
eager grove
you occasionally see them for ~£13k on autotrader
eager grove
Yeah I watched an amateur long term review on youtube
and the guy was like 'my wife puts it in eco mode and just drives it like a normal car'
eager grove
I think his wife just used it to make the throttle less aggressive
the Golf R wagon to me is almost a perfect petrol vehicle
low carbon
comfort mode does that too
eager grove
bigger boot than an even most giant SUVs
low carbon
eco mode coasting function isn't smooth
eager grove
well sure
low carbon
but maybe im too used to the kodiaq being absolutely palatial in the back
eager grove
Yeah
like I went on a 40 minute journey in the Leon
3 full sized adults in the back
no complaints at all-they said there was plenty of space
my wife somehow fits back there between two car seats
if only just
low carbon
i could never
eager grove
passat alltrack should have more room for her to do that if she wants to-though it should be less necessary as the kids get bigger
stoic ledge
I've driven plenty of times with 5 people in zhe Corsa 
5 is a bit uncomfortable, 4 is fine
low carbon
its hard to choose between the golf alltrack and passat alltrack
eager grove
I'd have the Golf is both were available
low carbon
those jap import alltracks already have adaptive cruise standard which is a must imo
eager grove
I cannot understand why they don't put the 1.8L petrol engine in the Golf estates in the UK
low carbon
its not
its the same 1.8 that was used in the passat before being replaced by the 190hp 2.0 recently
stoic ledge
Europe hasn't had a 1.8 T since like the Passat B6/Golf Mk4 or something 👀
Or is it the same engine as the 1.8 TFSI's in Audi's?
stoic ledge
Well I know it wasn't the very old engine lol, but I thought it would be a gen behind
stoic ledge
Ah no we never got that with a 1.8 TSI
eager grove
Yeah, and they've only just started putting it in the damn passat estates again
stoic ledge
1.4TSI (later 1.5 TSI) and 2.0 TSI
low carbon
thats all there is now
eager grove
It's like, I want a golf estate with 180-220HP
I know you can't make a GTI estate because it would be sacriledge or whatever
stoic ledge
I actually didn't know there was a B8 with 1.8 TSI 👀
low carbon
interior in the seats are shit
eager grove
but given the problems I've had with the central locking, the turbo, the ECU and shit on my Leon I'm loathe to buy another one
and yeah, the interior is gash
low carbon
i had a cupra ateca for an afternoon and it was a rattle fest, and the beats audio sounded terrible
eager grove
I mostly don't care about that stuff
low carbon
not fussed about rattling?
eager grove
but given how nice the interior looks on that Passat all track, and how nice it is in the Golf R wagon
unless the Leon estate is like £7k or something
then it's worth the extra money
stoic ledge
Leon ST FR has a 2.0 TSI 190hp? That's a bit like a "Golf Variant GTI" (not quite but it's a bit close)
Leon ST Cupra 👀
low carbon
?
eager grove
And the infotainment is gash
like 10,000 options and buttons
and the boot isn't big enough really
it's like 480L compared to 600 on the golf
eager grove
that would be fine
stoic ledge
Dacia Logan MCV has like a 600L boot 🙃
eager grove
ihuge though
eager grove
yep, I'd have one of those
But I'd rather have the Passat estate than that one specifically.
low carbon
just be warned those have a lot of axle tramp issues so get a $50 dogbone insert and you'll be fine
stoic ledge
For that price I can get a base 2016 Superb 1.6 TDI with almost no equipment and 100+k miles on it
😢
eager grove
sadface
low carbon
sucks to suck
eager grove
Nice to have a reverse camera, especially on a car that is 4.8M long
but that is a wideboi
low carbon
its very manageable though
stoic ledge
low carbon
doesn't feel massive to drive
eager grove
not sure how it compares in width to that Passat all track
low carbon
it would be similar
low carbon
too bad the back end of the karoq is ugly
the karoq sportline 2.0 tsi 4x4 is a great drive
eager grove
too new I think
cheapest petrol Karoq is £25k
I'd have one though
don't mind the looks too much
low carbon
lol
eager grove
wouldn't be able to drive up a hill! that's astonishing
low carbon
the distributor for skoda in nz brought the 1.0 manual in just as a price leader
just so they can say from $whatever
eager grove
lol
stoic ledge
No they actually sell them here 😂
eager grove
But yeah, there's no way I'd spend £25k on a Skoda when you can get a Golf R estate for £10k less
stoic ledge
Half of them for sale here atm are 1.0 TSI's
eager grove
even an Arteon is £7k+ less
low carbon
arteons are nice
they're just a bit too old man for me
here, most cc drivers are old men so they naturally migrated to arteons
eager grove
I have two children, I have no problem driving an old man car
If I had £40k to spend and didn't want an electric car for whatever reason
Arteon R wagon
eager grove
looks a lot like the Kodiaq bro
stoic ledge
I wouldn't associate an Arteon with an old man lol
All old people drive T-Roc/Karoq/Ateca/... Style vehicles
low carbon
i don't like these small suvs
stoic ledge
I don't like the "SUV" trend in general
eager grove
I don't care one way or the other. They tend to make emissions worse which sucks
but electric cars only really make sense as SUVs
and I love electric cars
low carbon
only reason i got the kodiaq and not a superb was that the superb was too long and that i actually take the car off road
eager grove
or, more specifically, as tall hatchbacks pretending to be SUVs
low carbon
or, more specifically, as tall hatchbacks *pretending* to be SUVs
t-cross, kamiq, puma etc
eager grove
Mach-E has the same clearance as a real mustang LMAO
low carbon
those are the small suvs that i have a problem with
stoic ledge
This is the biggest obstacle you have to overcome here, doesn't really require an SUV
low carbon
just buy a skoda scala, honestly. the boot in that is massive for the size
stoic ledge
Especially not those FWD 1.0 SUV thingies
low carbon
eager grove
if you want a new car, scala is amongst the best value for money offerings
stoic ledge
Scala doesn't drive as well tho imho
low carbon
dont think buyers of those care much lol
the 1.5 is fine since it has independent rear suspension
stoic ledge
I would 👀 Don't really see the Scala that often
eager grove
yeah 1.5TSI is the way to go
low carbon
1.0 is fussy over uneven bumps
stoic ledge
- all 1.0 TSI ofc 😅
eager grove
but it basically makes no sense if you're buying outright
low carbon
well that's cause you're in the uk
eager grove
because you could buy a seriously nice car for that money
low carbon
most new car buyers in the uk just do pcp/pch
no point paying cash really apart from having only your name on the title
eager grove
yeah it's true
low carbon
£900/mo for a 36mo lease on an m340i with a £17000 trade in
eager grove
I mean, also interest rates I suppose, but on a new car those are pretty low
low carbon
thats how much it costs here
its an absolute farce
in the us, people are paying £400 a month with no deposit
low carbon
who finances for 5k a year
eager grove
it's just what comes up by default
low carbon
10k is more reasonable
low carbon
i got £10k discounts using carwow on them
eager grove
It's bananas. Apparently hte leasing companies buy cars
low carbon
that's for a fully optioned one
meanwhile in nz £65k with a discount
but then with the kodiaq rs, mine had an rrp of around £39k but in the uk one with my spec is easily £45k
you have to be a multimillionaire to buy a new sport model car from a luxury brand here
stoic ledge
40k gets you a nicely equipped Golf 1.5 TSI here
😅
Base 1.0 TSI starts from 30k
👀
low carbon
Just bike everywhere
stoic ledge
I used to, but not anymore now I have a car
Also 40km 1 way to school is a bit too far
eager grove
low carbon
Yeah hope so
stoic ledge
Might be worth it to check what's in the box on Kenwoods website
I couldn't find it super quick but maybe try it for yourself
low carbon
If they did the install, ask if they used an adapter between this and the stereo
Like send a photo of the actual quadlock
stoic ledge
The Kenwood unit also shows stuff like parking sensors, map (arrows) in the centre driver display etc. Don't think that's easily doable without a proper adapter
Or atleast it's supposed to show it
eager grove
Right
low carbon
Yeah
That quadlock interfaces with the canbus. The canbus is the ‘junction’ for all the modules of the car
Which is why it’s important to not mess with the quadlock
Or else you won’t get full functionality of your infotainment and it’ll just work as a radio
stoic ledge
According to the manual there's an ISO adapter included, but I cant see if it's a 1:1 fit for the quadlock
low carbon
Should be fine then
eager grove
😎 thanks
I still can’t understand why Audi wouldn’t let VW use the 5cyl for the Arteon R
Given that Cupra are allowed
low carbon
Bc Cupra is now moving upmarket
They’re supposed to be above Volkswagen
Plus it’s a limited run
eager grove
I also wonder which would be more fuel efficient. A 320hp/420Nm 4cyl, 5cyl or VR6
low carbon
Definitely not the VR6
They sound bloody awesome though, not just the R36
Sweet spot is a 5cyl imo - RS Q3 is a tempting purchase but a C43/M340i isn’t much more really
eager grove
Very little practical advantage of an m340i vs the Golf R wagon to me
More rear seat room
Sounds better
Probably a little sportier
stoic ledge
From a practical standpoint maybe not, but from a driving perspective the Golf R is no match
fathom socket
a hose ruptured in my car
stoic ledge
👀
stoic ledge
Yikes
fathom socket
also
do you need some special coolant when you have iron block and aluminium head?
split notch
What makes the Alltrack JDM? It's an international car.
split notch
JDM means it's a car made for the Japanese Market
It's sort of an outdated term these days
eager grove
There aren’t many markets that stock the petrol Alltrack
split notch
It's made and sold in Europe and the UK
eager grove
Since Japan basically banned diesels VW makes them almost exclusively for that market
Nope
All diesels in the UK and Europe
eager grove
According the ad for the car I want
They didn’t officially, but their emissions standards makes it basically impossible for diesels to be sold there
eager grove
The US gets petrol golf all tracks, but a US Passat isn’t the same as a European spec one
low carbon
Probably a little sportier
I like the golf’s steering more lol
lone fern
yeah
split notch
sport hatches bad lol
low carbon
Steering wheel feel near centre isn’t good on the M340i, plenty of complaints on the internet
low carbon
japan banned diesels
Nah
low carbon
Mazda made the diesel CX-8 SUV initially just for Japan
split notch
Diesels are just less desirable in Japan, is all
lone fern
ah ok
split notch
They passed laws in the early 2000s saying that diesels had to meet a standard, and to meet this standard you'd have to use particle filters, and most Jap brands were like lolfuck that, so most are petrols
low carbon
There’s plenty of diesel options in Japan tho, more than America
Like you can get a 320d, Passat diesel etc
lone fern
we have to import those
split notch
5-10 years ago
low carbon
DiEsEl DeAd
split notch
Diesels gonna be outlawed in a few years too
lone fern
yeah im sure thatll go well here in ‘merica
low carbon
All depends on country
lone fern
wHeReS mY RiGhTs
low carbon
Most are just killing both at once no?
split notch
You won't be able to buy a new petrol or diesel in the UK/Europe past like 2030
fathom socket
imagine outlawing any type of combustion engine while people are driving 15 year old car on avg
low carbon
This^
split notch
It's for new vehicles
fathom socket
that cost like less then 2000\ euros
toxic cypress
Howdy
lone fern
if the us banned diesel my city’d be so quiet
split notch
and then they'll just drive fuel prices up over EVs
split notch
Most cities in the UK are also making LEZs and ULEZs, meaning that you can't drive to work in the city in your dirty diesel or petrol
eager grove
Not true
toxic cypress
Hey ive got a 12 soul and the radio doesnt work
eager grove
They’re trying but failing
fathom socket
basically making them illegal to drive anywhere
low carbon
Most cities in the UK are also making LEZs and ULEZs, meaning that you can't dri...
Most recent cars are ULEZ tho
lone fern
get a new radio
split notch
Yeah not older cars though
low carbon
Honestly it should be hard
toxic cypress
Its not the radio its just that i cant hear anything
split notch
It's rulings aimed at getting old ICE cars off the road
lone fern
Its not the radio its just that i cant hear anything
blown speakers/fuse?
toxic cypress
Maybe idk
low carbon
Anything euro 4/5 and below should get taxed more and there should be subsidies to get euro 6 cars
eager grove
So here in the Uk, they’re planning on banning new sales of non electrics in 2030/2035
split notch
I don't even know what my Skyline will come in at
toxic cypress
I havent searched the fuse
split notch
It's a dirty girl
eager grove
In Bristol the air quality is below the legal standards
low carbon
That’s more useful than just outright banning new very efficient cars
eager grove
And they keep trying to like bam diesels
toxic cypress
Maybe the amplifier?
eager grove
But have been so far unsuccessful
split notch
So here in the Uk, they’re planning on banning new sales of non electrics in 203...
2030 now, 2035s been pushed forward
low carbon
And they keep trying to like bam diesels
Yet VW is still pushing diesels lol
toxic cypress
I have heard that it gets screwed up in these cars but idk rlly
Thats why ik my elantra
fathom socket
Anything euro 4/5 and below should get taxed more and there should be subsidies ...
taxing poor people
split notch
thats cheap for a c43
fathom socket
like I'm not getting robbed enough
eager grove
My friend got an A35. Says it’s more fun than his old C43. Apparently corners like it’s on rails
low carbon
(€58400)
split notch
Anything euro 4/5 and below should get taxed more and there should be subsidies ...
Why should people have to shell out for new cars?
low carbon
My friend got an A35. Says it’s more fun than his old C43. Apparently corners li...
Not big enough for my uses, but I’ve driven the CLA45 and it’s a little bullet train
eager grove
They shouldn’t. Putting a car in the bin and buying a new one is far worse for the environment than driving all but the most thirsty gas guzzlers
toxic cypress
Also my 13 elantra has a ticking noise but ik its asking for a oil change since the last owner didnt change it before it was sold
split notch
Electric cars are a red herring and a massive network for fast chargers aren't economically feasible for any country
Nor is it practical
fathom socket
also
eager grove
Electric cars are a red herring and a massive network for fast chargers aren't e...
What utter BS
fathom socket
the concept of only being able to drive electric cars in my city while there are only 4 electric ones registered is stupid
and 0 charging sations
technically we have 2 but they are broken
split notch
@eager grove The utter millions needed to have a solid network for hundreds of thousands of charging points everywhere
How long does it take to fill a car over charging a battery?
toxic cypress
split notch
That's a realistic argument.
eager grove
Most of the time
toxic cypress
That's a realistic argument.
It is
eager grove
An electric car is MORE convenient not less
short hinge
Charging from 0 to 80 is fast enough, 30/45 mins, that it’s not really an issue for the average driver even if they’re doing a run from say, Birmingham to London every day
low carbon
You know they’re getting triggered when they bring out the full stops lol
split notch
Charging from 0 to 80 is fast enough, 30/45 mins, that it’s not really an issue ...
30/45 minutes over 3 minutes at a petrol pump?
toxic cypress
U cant charge a tesla to 100 unless ure gonna wear the battery life
eager grove
Yes but you go less often
split notch
Also where am I meant to charge my car when it does need charged?
toxic cypress
U gotta do it to 80 at least
low carbon
So many luddites that don’t realise that there’s a used market
short hinge
3 mins at a petrol pump is convenient, but yeah, you don’t always have a petrol station in your workplace or house, you can charge at home, charge at work, and if needed, a service station
split notch
Where is all this millions and millions of infrastructure cost come from?
eager grove
There are real logistical challenges for sure
fathom socket
An electric car is MORE convenient not less
what to do If there are no electric chargers and no electric chargers where you are going
low carbon
Don’t like electric? Don’t buy it
toxic cypress
U charge in charging station or ur home
fathom socket
I don't have home
split notch
Don’t like electric? Don’t buy it
We aren't talking about that, so if you're gonna be an ass, butt out.
low carbon
U charge in charging station or ur home
Hurr durr I work in Antarctica
toxic cypress
what to do If there are no electric chargers and no electric chargers where you ...
Where do u ive
fathom socket
not everyone has a house
low carbon
No charging points
short hinge
what to do If there are no electric chargers and no electric chargers where you ...
You take your own wall socket adapter incase of that situation, what if you run out 10 miles away from a petrol station?
eager grove
It’s only going to work if they put way more on street Charging
split notch
Precisely what I'm talking about 
fathom socket
You take your own wall socket adapter incase of that situation, what if you run ...
but petrol stations are like 500x more common than charging stations
eager grove
Saying it’s impossible or a fallacy is dumb, it’s happening
low carbon
It’s only going to work if they put way more on street Charging
Gotta deal with vandalism etc etc though
And upkeep
split notch
You take your own wall socket adapter incase of that situation, what if you run ...
and what if like many people you don't have the space to run a massive 45 metre cable to your car from your house, if you live in a towerblock etc like many do
eager grove
But there are real deal problems with switching that need to be addressed. Governments are going to need to spend a lot of money on it
split notch
But there are real deal problems with switching that need to be addressed. Gover...
Money they already don't have
toxic cypress
I could not even charge it
Why
eager grove
That’s a separate argument
short hinge
and what if like many people you don't have the space to run a massive 45 metre ...
I live in a Victorian townhouse street, so I can’t use electric, because cable, my mum could have one, and tbh I can see either a future of induction, floor based sockets with pay meters, or just using electric to hobble to hydrogen
split notch
No, it's part of it
low carbon
That’s a separate argument
We aren't talking about that, so if you're gonna be an ass, butt out.
toxic cypress
I live in a Victorian townhouse street, so I can’t use electric, because cable, ...
U dont know if its gonna happen
split notch
I live in a Victorian townhouse street, so I can’t use electric, because cable, ...
Hydrogen should have been the immediate step from ICE, as apposed to sidestep to EVs
eager grove
There are real problems to be solved, but there are blueprints to work from. Norway is already edging towards majority EV
lone fern
yeah hydrogen would fill up so much faster
short hinge
Hydrogen should have been the immediate step from ICE, as apposed to sidestep to...
Problem is bottling hydrogen into a usable form, difficult atm, Holland seems to be making leaps and bounds, could even one day see vehicles joining up to mains grids to provide power at night too
eager grove
Hydrogen only works if you can make clean hydrogen
toxic cypress
GM is a s*t
lone fern
yeah
short hinge
U dont know if its gonna happen
And of course, it’s just speculation, but hydrogen is definitely going to be an alternative to ICE eventually
eager grove
Otherwise you’re just moving emissions around
toxic cypress
And of course, it’s just speculation, but hydrogen is definitely going to be an ...
Yea
lone fern
and make the hydrogen not explode
short hinge
Otherwise you’re just moving emissions around
Same argument as electric cars just moving the emissions to the power plants, but it’s far more efficient than burning dinosaurs
split notch
either that or we stop fucking around and take nuclear energy more seriously and stop using old shitty badly made Soviet reactors from the 60s as examples of why Nuclear is bad
lone fern
Same argument as electric cars just moving the emissions to the power plants, bu...
ah yes, burning dinosaurs
fathom socket
IF I can move to switzerland, I'm going to buy EV motorcycle because there are plenty of chargers and I can get private parking spot more easily than here
lone fern
either that or we stop fucking around and take nuclear energy more seriously and...
yeah lets do that
toxic cypress
and make the hydrogen not explode
For it to not explode the tubes cant be too small and not tok big
lone fern
not a bad idea
short hinge
IF I can move to switzerland, I'm going to buy EV motorcycle because there are p...
I’d have an electric bike, go like a stabbed rat off the line
eager grove
Nuclear has to be part of the solution
fathom socket
but just the idea of traveling in a country that is lacking EV chargers
eager grove
That’s absolutely right
low carbon
Honestly what’s the point of getting an electric car now
lone fern
but just the idea of traveling in a country that is lacking EV chargers
america 101
low carbon
The rate of improvement in them is massive compared to ICE
eager grove
I mean some of them are good
fathom socket
IF I can move to switzerland, I'm going to buy EV motorcycle because there are p...
And I never will go to Switzerland because of Maximum allowed speeds and speeding-laws
low carbon
I don’t see the rush tbh
low carbon
My fave EV is the e-golf
fathom socket
Then I would never have additional stops on any journey
Ordered a 500mile Cybertruck
low carbon
It’s the only EV that doesn’t scream pretentious to me
lone fern
yeah i would be ok till i drive to florida for vacation
toxic cypress
America has more charger than where i live, and the chargers where i live arent even tesla chargers so tesla owners (a very very few like 8 maybe) charge at home or at that thing that takes 2 or 3 hours some guy told me lol
short hinge
EV for me wouldn’t be viable because I travel a lot, and I need to power an inverter all day to run laptop chargers and stuff, so dirty diesel it is for me
split notch
I live on a military base, EV is totally useless to me
lone fern
America has more charger than where i live, and the chargers where i live arent ...
not in the area im in, nobody has them around
fathom socket
america 101
I think US has more chargers than my place
stoic ledge
It’s the only EV that doesn’t scream pretentious to me
Yes because something like a Kia e-Niro is pretentious 
toxic cypress
not in the area im in, nobody has them around
Where do u live
low carbon
Yes because something like a Kia e-Niro is pretentious <:linusSmirk:741333860067...
Forgot about those lol
split notch
but also my car goes vroom and stututu and I like that
fathom socket
EV for me wouldn’t be viable because I travel a lot, and I need to power an inve...
But u know that electic cars offer it all? 5V DC, 12V DC, 230V AC, 400V AC & DC...
short hinge
VW =/= pretentious 
stoic ledge
Lots of people
low carbon
Kias are good cars
toxic cypress
The kia and hyundai website got hacked
split notch
But u know that electic cars offer it all? 5V DC, 12V DC, 230V AC, 400V AC & DC....
charging is the killer point.
low carbon
Just not my vibe
toxic cypress
And theyre asking for bitcoin
short hinge
But u know that electic cars offer it all? 5V DC, 12V DC, 230V AC, 400V AC & DC....
Yeah they do, I did suggest to the boss about the new LEVC VN5 van, got a genny on board too
toxic cypress
Unless they would release a big amount of info
split notch
Yeah they do, I did suggest to the boss about the new LEVC VN5 van, got a genny ...
petrol jenny to power the battery? 😂
toxic cypress
Wow, how vulnerable
stoic ledge
Just as an allround EV, the e-Niro might be the best EV you can currently get
Not that I would drive it
low carbon
Rather the e-golf
eager grove
More companies should be making RXEVs to manage the switch IMO
short hinge
petrol jenny to power the battery? 😂
🤣 think it’s hydrogen? But it could be petrol, yeah, range extender 😂 goes from 200 miles to 283 apparently
split notch
lmao
stoic ledge
Nah the e-Golf range isn't sufficient imho
low carbon
The new Mercedes EQA would be nice if they didn’t turn it into a weird tall hatchback trying to be an SUV
eager grove
Unfortunately all EVs are going to be that
fathom socket
I mean, im used to drive my eUP like a Gokart. Letting the wheels scream at 100kph curves
low carbon
Nah the e-Golf range isn't sufficient imho
I’d only use it as a town car. The infrastructure isn’t there in my country
short hinge
I just want an automatic van next time 
fathom socket
You take your own wall socket adapter incase of that situation, what if you run ...
I can always go and get a gascan and fill it up and go back.
also where I plug it If I don't have a socket?
stoic ledge
ID. 3 was a great idea but the execution isn't as good... They don't really offer anything new, they aren't less expensive than competitors and they software is just horrendous
lone fern
an electric motorcycle would be lit
short hinge
I can always go and get a gascan and fill it up and go back.
also where I plug i...
You can, 20 mile walking trip though, longer than 30 mins at a charger 🤣 and if you’re in a country that doesn’t have any plug sockets within 10 miles, I’d be questioning your ownership of an EV
stoic ledge
I'd get a PHEV now if I'd buy a brand new car probably
low carbon
Only one good PHEV tho
330e xdrive
lone fern
americas power grid wouldnt be able to handle everyone with electric cars
fathom socket
I don't see the point in electric bikes though. If, I want to have it for the sound.
Music of a 2 cylinder engine
low carbon
There’s also the GLE 350de which is diesel hybrid
fathom socket
You can, 20 mile walking trip though, longer than 30 mins at a charger 🤣 and if...
I don't think level 1 charger charges that fast
lone fern
as demonstrated by texas
stoic ledge
I don't see the point in electric bikes though. If, I want to have it for the so...
Bikes as in motorbike of bicycle?
toxic cypress
But i only like hyundai, yes kia is part of it but my 13 elantra has better mpg than a ford fiesta which nobody wants bc the transmissions break and the radiator fan breaks and u get like a thousand genuine fans and they dont work and then u get a oem fan and it works for the rest of ur life and then u return it to the dealership bc its in the dealership for 2 months and the transmission hasnt been fixed!
lone fern
e-bycicles are fun to ride
low carbon
But i only like hyundai, yes kia is part of it but my 13 elantra has better mpg ...
Hyundai’s are so expensive now
stoic ledge
There’s also the GLE 350de which is diesel hybrid
Volvo had one too, the V60 PHEV
fathom socket
Bikes as in motorbike of bicycle?
Bike as in 2 cylinders and 1000ccm^3
short hinge
I don't think level 1 charger charges that fast
Nah they’re like 8 hour slow chargers, it’s just the balance of infrastructure and actual availability to the public, finely balanced but only takes too much of one to drown the other
low carbon
Santa Fe pricing is fucked
fathom socket
but gas stations are like 20 km apart
stoic ledge
Santa Fe is finally reasonably priced here 😂 All due to the hybrid powertrain
fathom socket
while some EV chargers are up to 100 km if not more
stoic ledge
Last gen was like €70k, new one €45k 😅
toxic cypress
Hyundai’s are so expensive now
I have a 13 elantra, also a 17 elantra costs 11,000 so theyre not rlly cheap but theyre good
low carbon
Santa Fe is finally reasonably priced here 😂 All due to the hybrid powertrain
10k more than a Kodiaq RS
stoic ledge
10k more than a Kodiaq RS
25k less here 👀
fathom socket
without the infrastructure EV is basically a gimmick
fathom socket
also insurance is the 2nd biggest problem
fathom socket
Bikes as in motorbike of bicycle?
Though I plan on a CForce-1000 personally. Im rather for the offroad-utility rather than street racing.
stoic ledge
Though I plan on a CForce-1000 personally. Im rather for the offroad-utility rat...
I have no idea what that is 👀
toxic cypress
I dont get the kona hybrid, lol it was recalled bc it could explode. Worse than tesla or prius
fathom socket
An ATV
stoic ledge
ATV 👀
short hinge
Also I used to own a shitbox, anyone tell what it is?
toxic cypress
The thing is that the new prius battery costs 10,000, and the worse is that they just break after 6 yeard of use
toxic cypress
Also I used to own a shitbox, anyone tell what it is?
Scion xB?
short hinge
Don’t get scion’s here in the uk!
toxic cypress
Oof
short hinge
Or at least if we do, they’re very rare
toxic cypress
Mm
stoic ledge
toxic cypress
Toyota
low carbon
toxic cypress
Land cruiser?
short hinge
Don’t you go reading that badge 😠
fathom socket
Oh wow... Discord doesn't like the answer feature when chat is moving
low carbon
Profile looks the bloody same lol
toxic cypress
What badge
short hinge
Oh the engine cover logo
toxic cypress
Yea ok
short hinge
But it’s a Toyota yeah, Starlet MK2 GTturbo
toxic cypress
But it’s a Toyota yeah, Starlet MK2 GTturbo
We dont get those in the us, thats why i didnt know bout it
short hinge
Jap only, Aus gets a fair few of them, and a lot in Ireland too
toxic cypress
Also the Toyota Corolla Cross (crossover in Brazil and south america) is winning to the corolla lol
short hinge
Someone I know had a 1.5l turbo modified version with AWD, that’s nuts
toxic cypress
Too bad that the toyota awd didnt work that well, it was over intrusive in evasive maneuvers (TCS and s*t) and when going up a hill it didnt work as expected
The onyl winning is Subaru
They have the best AWD
toxic cypress
Too bad that the toyota awd didnt work that well, it was over intrusive in evasi...
Also behind in last place was the Volvo
It went nuts when u evaded a cone in water
Or in any case
fathom socket
Someone I know had a 1.5l turbo modified version with AWD, that’s nuts
The quad/ATV im about to get does 14L/100km. Thats fine to me.
350g/km Co2.
I mean, my daily car is a full battery electic vehicle. So.. Definetly need something to compensate for it.
eager grove
Anyone know of any good car discords? I can't find one I like
RxEVs should be an important part of the transition - you get EV power and efficiency, powered by a small petrol engine. But the problem with THAT is that the petrol engine runs at a constant speed and causes an annoying whine
They'd be way better than plugin hybrids but eh
fathom socket
Just get offroad wheels so the wheel noise is louder than everything else.
eager grove
Like gimme a 500L boot on a RxEV that can comfortably seat a family
low carbon
RxEVs should be an important part of the transition - you get EV power and effic...
Why do you think manufacturers just do PHEV
stoic ledge
Nissan is doing a hybrid in which the gas engine never drives the wheels
eager grove
but if you think about it they can work really well. If your car knows where all the no-petrol zones are, then it can charge as you go on the motorway and then switch to battery only, and only kick in
yeah, they are
stoic ledge
QASHQAI E-Power
eager grove
but it's crap again
stoic ledge
well it's a Nissan
The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is mainly a generator but does have a fixed gear to drive the wheels
eager grove
I read a review and there's some part of it that's crap - I think it's that it can't run on e-power only
So many of those in the UK that never get charged
because they over-incentivised shitty plugin hybrids a while back
low carbon
People buy them for tax reasons nothing else
stoic ledge
Has anyone driven the E-Power already? I've only seen static introductions
eager grove
so a bunch of company cars were Outlanders
low carbon
Yep
stoic ledge
People buy them for tax reasons nothing else
That's for literally any car here 🙃
eager grove
the outlander people didn't have to pay BIK on
so they all got one
but they're an absolute bus with no cargo space, shitty interior, no features and a terrible electric range
as well as being slow AF
low carbon
Honestly the new ŠKODA Enyaq is the most ‘exciting’ regular person EV to come out this year IMO
stoic ledge
Guess the part where the Outlander had tax incentives
low carbon
The light up grille looks dumb tho IMO
eager grove
That's true
stoic ledge
Enyaq looks great, I'm quite curious how it is irl
low carbon
ŠKODA is killing it with their designs
eager grove
they need better EV range testing
low carbon
And the package in general really
eager grove
because apparently the ID4 and Mustang Mach-E sometimess do better long range driving than a model Y long range, despite being rated for much less
low carbon
Lol
stoic ledge
Let's hope the infotainment of the Enyaq is better than that of the ID.3/.4
low carbon
There was the C&D article about how the ID.4 had less real world range than the Model Y
While the ID.4 was tested in a far colder environment 🤦🏻♂️
unborn cedar
Alternative title: Making the DeLorean a good car
eager grove
the ID4 is going to suffer in the cold more than a model Y though
they need to do convoy testing
fathom socket
because apparently the ID4 and Mustang Mach-E sometimess do better long range dr...
Same with the eUP.
Its Rated at 260km range. The german ADAC rated it at 220km realistic range.
If I want, I can achieve a good 330km range with it without going below allowed speed limit.
Without using any of that ECO mode crap stuff
eager grove
330km?? in an eUp??? holy shit
stoic ledge
Highly doubt you'll get to 330km in an e-up
low carbon
Downhill
stoic ledge
Or you shouldn't go above 50km/h city driving
stoic ledge
That’s why EVs are so good around town
If you're an anticipating driver, then yes
fathom socket
Usually I drive 40% 100kph, 40% 70kph, 20% 50kph
low carbon
Stop start is crap in normal ICE cars cause the AC is still belt driven
stoic ledge
If you're a tool and floor it everywhere and brake hard then no
I don't have start-stop 
low carbon
If you're a tool and floor it everywhere and brake hard then no
Well same goes for ICE so moot point
fathom socket
If I drive how I normally do In a car - like a Gokart - the eUP only goes about 180km on a charge.
low carbon
Meh
fathom socket
Then the engine draws a good 22kWh/100km
low carbon
With an e-golf I get 220km real world range making full use of that instant torque
eager grove
how many cars do you have Zach??
low carbon
My VW dealer has a fleet of e-golf loan cars
So once or twice a year I get one for the day
stoic ledge
A Twizy is actually quite fun around town
low carbon
I don’t own one haha, would be nice though if I had a 3 car garage
low carbon
Scissor doors tho
stoic ledge
Ah yes 😎
fathom socket
I learned driving in a Mercedes C220.
I drove my parents car, a Mercedes C320.
My first car I got was the old Golf 3 Cabrio of my sister.
My first own bought and todays-car is the eUP.
Im looking to get a CFMoto CForce-1000.
And I put in the bucks for a CyberTruck Reservation.
eager grove
I learned in my parents' 2004 Honda Jazz
first car was a 2002 Vauxhall astra
current car is a 2011 Seat Leon 1.4TSI
eager grove
which?
low carbon
The seat
stoic ledge
TSI
eager grove
The turbo had leaking problems
stoic ledge
I learned driving in a 2013 Clio IV 1.5 dCi
eager grove
but nothing very explodey
though the ECU kept not engaging in december - just wouldn't run the turbo
(I may be misusing the term ECU)
low carbon
Family friends mk2 Fabia RS had a buggered turbo as well
eager grove
they replaced the whole lot 2 years ago
and after 18months of problems had no issues since
fathom socket
In driving school I had a car with much torque but I was scared of using it. Now Im confident but my car doesn't have the torque I would like to "apply". 🤣
eager grove
basically you'd get a faceful of steam when pulling away
because the turbo fluid would pool on the engine and then evaporate
they tried all sorts to fix it but it's been fine since they replaced the whole piece
but other than that, a dodgy electric window, the ECU problems and the central locking being buggered
it runs absolutely fine
I really want to replace it , but it's a bit hard to do having to put 5 grand into the wall electrics
stoic ledge
Why 5 grand 👀
eager grove
New house
all 1960s braided cable
bloody lights were fizzing when turned off in my sons room
whole lot needs redoing
stoic ledge
Ah ok makes sense
fossil imp
yikes
eager grove
yeah. Fire risk in a 2 year old's bedroom are a no-no. turned everything off at the fuse box
so Passat all track probably not on the immediate cards for me
fossil imp
jus tear the whole place down n start from scratch
if the electrics are dated is the plumbing too?
charred depot
got 2 electrical standards in me house
theres just these traffic observation vans going back and fourth doing 20 under the limit
mighty sus
charred depot
neither the person infront of me going down / the person going up beeped when going through the narrow bit :^ | 🤡
clowns
crude agate
Alphine Formula 1 is so french
Aton martin is so green
HAas is so fucking boring russia
sage ledge
Yes
split notch
so now we have daddies money x2
fathom socket
when you cant get one in real life, get one in forza
indigo coral
I'm sure it depends on the inline 6
flint sable
Cleen
low carbon
Cleen
thats my fave colour for them
used to have a 2012 in plasma blue before getting my golf
just a wrx though
flint sable
The wheels are fantastic too
sturdy solar
I wouldn't trade a golf for that lol
primal vale
BMW lied. Inline 6 engines aren't smooth.
never seen a jeep be smooth.... but I have however seen a Jeep 4.0 get balanced and was smooth after lol
bitter compass
I think i will never get rid of the image that Subaru is the brand for people who smell like farm, act like alabama, and own a farm.
But well :eyes:
fathom socket
R8, anyone?
eager grove
You need a licence for that? In the Uk you can’t have a trailer without a licence
eager grove
When you say truck- pick up or lorry?
fathom socket
A lorry
charred depot
you can have a car trailer in the UK
i coooould legally tow 3800kg with my 950kg car but eh
stoic ledge
Your car isn't legally allowed to tow that much
charred depot
here i dont believe there is a straight written legalese for that
its subjective and youd get charged under some other law it would seem
its pretty much legal to exceed manufacturers towing recommendations
stoic ledge
🤔 ok
Well you aren't allowed to here
You can't exceed the manufacturers rated towing capacity
charred depot
there doesent appear to be a straight no here
fathom socket
My grandpa said he had a work truck from IH one time and it had Class B truck plates on it. He took it to a scale when it had all the outfits (welder, oxyacetylene torch, etc.) and it weighed 10000 pounds (Class B plates are for a maximum of 8000 pounds).
He was a ton over the weight limit
charred depot
oop
for some people it makes sense to use a vehicle less safe for towing due to the weight limit on licenses without a upgrade
fathom socket
It is unfortunate that all trucks must have Class B plates even though some of them weigh as much as cars
And aren't going to be used a towing vehicles
charred depot
not familiar with murican vehicular legalese
fathom socket
Well I can tell you that I am lucky my firetruck qualified for antique plates
charred depot
friend who has a old land rover that falls under being a "dual purpose vehicle" gets cheaper tax that way
fathom socket
Otherwise registration would be like $2000 a year or something crazy
The only thing nice about class b truck plates is that personalized plates are only $8 more a year
charred depot
different personalized plates here have different values
market for them and everything
charred depot
people often get them to hide the age of their car heh, cant have friends knowing they have a 18 plate car and not a 21 plate car
stoic ledge
👀
I can always pick out imported cars from cars originally sold here as the plates are wrong 👀
Although it's also funny 'cause some people think newer plate = newer car 
fathom socket
hmm
stoic ledge
Well our Meriva has a 2013 plate while it's first registration was december 2011
Our previous Peugeot had a 2007 plate where it was a car from 2003
But tbh you only know that if you're a car geek and you know what lay-out was used when, and even what lettering was used when
charred depot
dvla here has spare plates for year + area where its being imported to
stoic ledge
charred depot
if you import something it will be a given a plate as if it existed here from when it was made
stoic ledge
Ah nice
fathom socket
I'm terrified of perpendicular parking with trailer
stoic ledge
Nah you just get the next plate which is available at the time you import it
fathom socket
if going on reverse was difficult with 18 meter vehicle set
charred depot
remember a video of some people in a new range rover making a truck reverse down a narrow windy single track road with thick hedges at either side
fathom socket
charred depot
instead of giving people fines and points for being on their phone while driving why not instead limit them to 500kg deathtrap cars and maybe even with really shit steering that you have to be constantly watching the road and correcting
seems like a better solution to me, and if they do head on anyone well..
why cant i be prime minister of this fine country smh
fathom socket
I have a 1200kg death trap
fathom socket
question
split notch
you can have a car trailer in the UK
If you have B + E
split notch
i coooould legally tow 3800kg with my 950kg car but eh
I doubt your car could pull almost 4 tonne, maybe max 1 tonne
I have C, C1 and C+E but I don't have B + E, for some obtuse reason
fathom socket
hmm
charred depot
i was taking the piss i doubt it could tow 1 tonne
the acceleration is seriously affected by the presence of passengers
fathom socket
I'm going to get B+E when I'm done with my C+E
split notch
I don't know why you don't just get B+E when you do C+E, but that's me
the principles are the exact same
just smaller and lighter scale
charred depot
dad gets to have a total weight of like 8 odd tonnes just cause hes old smh
ageism real
charred depot
if you had your license before 1997
charred depot
see plenty of people towing cars with shitty unbraked dolly trailers using their estates
split notch
Yeah, illegal though
If they pass a traffic who gives a fuck, they get fucked
Did you not see that prick driving through Whitburn with an old astra literally hanging off the side of the van?
charred depot
saw the video of a transit dragging a car that smacked into like every parked car
split notch
yikes
fathom socket
I think my dad towed a ford transit with a fiat uno
split notch
When I got my car put onto the low loader for the garage, I asked the two guys if I could double check all their rigging when they had it on
asked if I was a mechanic and I just said "sorta"
fathom socket
or it was tipo
with diesel
I don't remember
I know it was a fiat, it was old, square and had a diesel
we god pulled over because my dad was ticketed for not having B+E license
charred depot
the total weight exceeded 3.whatever odd tonnes?
split notch
I need to get my bike licenses put back on my licence, the Army and the dumbfuck civvies they have to deal with this stuff didn't have them put on from my civvie car license
charred depot
got to construct many wall shelfs so i can get all the tat off the ground to fit a car in
fathom socket
you can only tow 750 kg here without license
charred depot
you can tow over 750kg here as long as the total doesent exceed 3.5 tonnes
split notch
And then you look at the lightest trailers and it's still 350-400kg so you can't tow much in the end lol
charred depot
a frames are perfectly safe and acceptable :^)
fathom socket
I think my car has max towing capability
I doubt it can tow much with skinny ttres and no torque
split notch
wait
does that just clip onto
what?
That's reliant on the front of the car having 2 tow points
charred depot
wishbones / subframe
fathom socket
my car can only pull max 1200 kg
split notch
Oh it chains around
charred depot
just straps onto it
split notch
that's... very not cool and probably very dangerous
fathom socket
so basically 2800KG in total
split notch
brake at a faster speed and having steel bars ram into the body of your car
charred depot
no one in the towed vehicle
split notch
Yeah but then the car is utterly fucked
charred depot
something like this is probably about as sketchy as id go
split notch
those are "okay"
charred depot
can get them with brakes if you get a decent one
fathom socket
don't they have brakes in them?
split notch
not all
charred depot
decent ones
no space for a proper trailer plus dont want to piss off all the neighbours with a ratty trailer in the garden
split notch
gotta save on axle weight 😎
charred depot
plummet my streets house prices by filling it with rustbuckets parked on the pavement
split notch
normal for fife
charred depot
peak towing
apparently with one of these the tow car doesent even have to be taxed or insured and youd attach the car that is towings plate and lights to the back
charred depot
car being towed*
charred depot
annoying people that let the mot completely run out on their shitboxes before selling it
also annoying that getting temporary insurance for any car that is around about 20 years old or older is a pain
atleast at my age
charred depot
Apparently in September the UK standard for petrol is changing from E5 to E10
dont think it will affect any of our cars
fathom socket
does anyone know what is LPG octane rating?
split notch
usually 110-115
fathom socket
that's quite high
split notch
yeah but its not as powerful fuel
stoic ledge
Apparently in September the UK standard for petrol is changing from E5 to E10
It was already a thing in Europe 💩 I just put E5 in mine (so "premium")
Also it's up to 5-10% ethanol, it's probably still the same fuel as before
Just a different name
stoic ledge
The effects also really depends on the car
On the Meriva E5 and E10 have absolutely 0 effect un the fuel economy
charred depot
old mx5's they says its a no no to use E10 in now so will have to pay extra
stoic ledge
As mine runs on LPG the gas is in there for long, so I use E5
fathom socket
As mine runs on LPG the gas is in there for long, so I use E5
same
my car has never seen a full petrol tank
most I got was 1/2 tank when my LPG electronics broke
split notch
E10 on an older car is horrid for the seals and tubing
since the ethanol just eats it
dense shard
Happily my area offers ethanol and ethanol free gas.
Alabama didn't give me a choice
fallen falcon
welcome to the desert.. of the real 😎
versed ginkgo
thats why u just gotta haul ass and pass all the idiots https://streamable.com/8geewz
stoic ledge
most I got was 1/2 tank when my LPG electronics broke
Yeah I alwats add 15L, so much more than half it hasn't seen
More is just carrying around dead weight lol
fathom socket
I put 10 liters every 3-4 months
sage ledge
Tbh New bmw design aint that bad
dense shard
But none as iconic as the WJ Grand Cherokee
versed ginkgo
E92 looked OK in some trims. All the F chassis cars are hideous
5 series has been ugly since E39
stoic ledge
F1x was good, F3x was good, F2x was fine...
G2x and G3x are nice also
Except the G20 M3
fallen falcon
BMWs mostly look nice in where i live, because people dig the living hell out of BMWs here
also some BMWs were amazing looking to me
like the 6-series gran stuff
it looks like it hugs up the ground tight which is a definite must for such cars
x-drive ones are baller.
fathom socket
thats why u just gotta haul ass and pass all the idiots https://streamable.com/8...
Wasnt crossing double-lines forbidden? 😛
versed ginkgo
Wasnt crossing double-lines forbidden? 😛
Yes. But I do it anyway.
fallen falcon
that's why you're being a crap biker
bikes are meant to go on the same lanes as cars
read a driver's course book.
versed ginkgo
I know its against the law, I already said I don't care
fallen falcon
you're putting your and other people's lives to danger by driving like a mad biker
not caring is not an option.
fallen falcon
actually you are
versed ginkgo
how
fallen falcon
because bikes go faster than cars.
versed ginkgo
Ok?
versed ginkgo
Well I'm not gonna unintentionally hit someone
fallen falcon
again you're riding with zero care
you're just putting the pedal to the metal completely and doing whatever you want.
versed ginkgo
yeah...thats the point
fallen falcon
genius.
versed ginkgo
I go fast in my car as well, but its a lot bigger so I can't pull the shit I do on the bike
coarse citrus
Riding like a beavis is just as inconsiderate as the broad swerving with a cell phone, be a respectable rider bro;
versed ginkgo
How are those in any way comparable? I'm not distracted...I want to go fast and ride like a nutter
its fun
fallen falcon
coarse citrus
Do it on a track then, it isn't fun if you catch someone off guard and your rubber leaves the road.
versed ginkgo
I have never been pulled over once...
fallen falcon
rings a bell? keep your pepeg riding / driving to the track day
you should be taken in custody from what it sounds like
versed ginkgo
heres some more shitty go pro vids to make you mad https://streamable.com/sllle5
versed ginkgo
i break different laws in that one
fallen falcon
i don't care
fallen falcon
no i mean, i'm not going to deal with this any more
versed ginkgo
You shouldn't have tried in the first place
coarse citrus
dang you almost got smoked by that ups truck, you should consider hitting the local track bud for real.
versed ginkgo
How did I almost 'get smoked' by a stationary object?
coarse citrus
didn't look stationary to me, looked like it was trying to merge. Maybe just the perception of the lens.
sage ledge
F80 was decent
Ye
coarse citrus
I know it says cars, but maybe my ol' truck could sit here.
versed ginkgo
old trucks are cool, and I've pissed off this channel enough it seems so I shall post my car as well
coarse citrus
mmm not much better than a hemi
fathom socket
old trucks are cool, and I've pissed off this channel enough it seems so I shall...
Need to go for a ride in that beast
Your car is a beauty
How much she putting to the wheels?
versed ginkgo
How much she putting to the wheels?
Dodge says 485, but I've never taken it to a dyno or anything like that
versed ginkgo
It's a nice car for sure, but tires are really expensive
versed ginkgo
305s all around
fathom socket
Imagine. General lee. But
versed ginkgo
its also completely useless in the snow
versed ginkgo
That would be cool. The trailhawk is supposed to be nuts off the line
fathom socket
Yeah. I would not commit a wistindesil
I would keep my general lee nice. (Unlike some of his other vheicles)
versed ginkgo
👍 hellcats get wrecked all the time so you can find the motors in junkyards for reasonable prices
versed ginkgo
Yeah, you're gonna need to find one off a trailhawk and hope it fits
versed ginkgo
They discontinued AWD + Hemi in 2015, so those transmissions and diffs might be hard to come by now
fathom socket
Hmm
Or I could fabricate one
Had an idea.
If I found one of those.
I could Yank the body off
Find a 70 body. Mod it to fit and paint.
Ram bar to
dense shard
I imagine the transmissions are easy enough to come by.
dense shard
They didn't have a unique transmission. Transfer case... maybe?
The 2009 Charger AWD utilized the BorgWarner Torque-on-Demand system which disconnects the front axles until extra traction is needed.
Earlier examples apparently had a Mercedes based system.
versed ginkgo
They didn't have a unique transmission. Transfer case... maybe?
the transmission they used with the V8 AWD sedans till 2015 was the 5spd found in e-classes
dense shard
Those are fairly common I imagine.
versed ginkgo
Still a 20 year old 5 speed at this point however, and it was only ever mated to the 5.7 which made around 370HP. Never a 700HP hellcat
dense shard
Apparently also used on the 6.1L.
fathom socket
Hmm
dense shard
And apparently was used in a couple of V12 Mercedes cars.
I just wish whatever Chrysler calls itself now would put out a cheap 4x4.
fathom socket
Yeah.