Kinda make it
#cars
bitter compass
I wonder if the id3/4 will take the Zoe this year
stoic ledge
For 🇳🇱 , I'm quite certain it will
ID.3 is probably going to be #1, ID.4 is probably going to be somewhere in the top 5
bitter compass
I want a id3 variant 🤔
stoic ledge
As far as what has been spotted, VW isn't testing a saloon-like EV
They have been testing a stupid coupe-like ID.4 tho
bitter compass
Passat (wagon)
stoic ledge
bitter compass
Saloons are rare here 🤔
stoic ledge
Although VW did once revealed a ID.SPACE VISION, which is basically an ID.Passat 😛
stoic ledge
Saloons are rare here 🤔
Same here
warm sparrow
stoic ledge
ID.Space Vision
bitter compass
Hmm i know
Because suvs and.. fwd SUVs what kinda defeats the SUVs purpose of being offroaders
stoic ledge
ID platform is RWD (or AWD with an engine on the front-axle)
bitter compass
Ngl i see BMW making an wagon EV first
stoic ledge
Yes pls
Although BMW is making some hideous cars now
MG is making a EV wagon 
Iirc they're the first
bitter compass
I mean bmw drives around full electric prototypes around here
stoic ledge
Well if it looks like this they can better stop
stoic ledge
The Renault 5 Prototype looks quite cool imho
bitter compass
Retro ooooo
stoic ledge
I suggest getting the Suda SA01 in Germany 
stoic ledge
reminds me of the old cilo
It's a flashback ti the Renault 5
And considering the rear, most likely a 5 Turbo
stoic ledge
5 Turbo
fiery cedar
hot
stoic ledge
🔥
vocal mural
Nice fit of number plate
eager grove
The problem with EV wagons
is that a CUV sells so much better
and makes more sense with the EV body shape
Hell, the Mach-E isn't even a CUV, it's an MPV. It's a tall hatchback like a Touran or Citroen Picasso
it's ground clearance is less than an STI, it's barely even pretending
Like the ID is crap, partially because the back seats are so low
and it's already like 60mm taller than a golf
whereas most automakers making good EVs (and VW with the ID4) are making things that look like CUVs for two reasons 1) CUVs are cool and sell well 2) they can make the car taller and big enough for people and things, and use up the ground clearance that no one needs anyway with battery packs
The Model Y is at least pretending
With EVs though, because the centre of gravity is so low, taller vehicles are probably more fun than they usually are in any case
stoic ledge
Nice fit of number plate
Wooncomplex De School 
Anyway, that's what you get when you're trying to fit a EU plate on a USDM-spec car 😛
stoic ledge
Hell, the Mach-E isn't even a CUV, it's an MPV. It's a tall hatchback like a Tou...
Lol no they way it's shaped it's way less practical then a Touran or a Picasso lol
eager grove
That's true
But mostly for aerodynamic purposes
and a Model Y is the same
and that's not quite as practical, but it's pretty close - 8 carry on suitcases with 5 passengers
fathom socket
viral matrix
stoic ledge
Yuasa
stoic ledge
But mostly for aerodynamic purposes
True but if you want sleek aerodynamic and a low Cd-value you're better of starting with a sleek saloon/wagon that a SUV/CUV styled car
charred depot
Mach e's lower than my little ecobox
would love a photo of underneath the mach e to see how much of the steel is covered
looks like its covered enough to give MOT testers a nightmare, not that a Mach e's gonna be on the road for like 20 years though right
eager grove
I think they will
karmic verge
That looks like a mess.
viral matrix
Only clean part in this engine bay along with the relay
viral matrix
Nah
It's a 800€ shitbox anyways, no way I'm gonna spend time cleaning the engine bay
viral matrix
The exterior and interior I do keep in mint condition though
Cuz that's what really matters
The engine bay is really messy looking anyways
Nothing's hidden and everything is easily accessible
unborn cedar
what
unborn cedar
oh no its sideways
mighty stump
can i drink it tho
mighty stump
alright
unborn cedar
tastes like youre about to have a real bad time
karmic verge
Forbidden smoothie
stark sentinel
full bough
Just bought a 2000 Honda Civic with 76k miles on it for $800 
No rust, everything works, 5 speed manual, clean paint and interior. An absolute steal.
next fern
Just bought a 2000 Honda Civic with 76k miles on it for $800 <:KEKW:670048864052...
The hatchback or the coupe?
full bough
The hatchback or the coupe?
4 door sedan
next fern
oh okay thats whats up
full bough
Basically a gas saver for driving to and from work since my truck gets like 10mpg
next fern
Make sense, I wish you could find cars for cheap in California. Cars here are so stupid expensive
I don't know what I want for my first car
I have a 2001 Acura MDX that was my dads old car but I have to share it with my twin brother
and cars here in california are so expensive I have very few choices considering I want to get a tuner and I hate Miatas
fathom socket
whats that pink liquid
Engine coolant/antifreeze. Prevents the coolant from freezing (which could literally explode the block or at least push out the Frost plugs since water is cheeky and expands when freezing) and it also prevents the iron block from rusting and the different metals in the cooling system (iron, aluminum, copper mostly) from eating away at each other (galvanic corrosion).
These two properties will wear off over time and the coolant will need to be replaced. Antifreeze content can easily be checked though, should do that once a year before winter.
And you can drink that stuff. If you don’t puke it back out it will be extremely potent alcohol and it will actually taste sweet but it will also kill you so, enjoy in sips
lime kiln
shy pike
my country 🤡
dense shard
It be like that.
Amusingly the banned ads are better marketing than unbanned. Everyone hears about bad things.
carmine summit
Unfortunately, I am once again hooked on the idea of buying an R32 Skyline
urban moon
Make sense, I wish you could find cars for cheap in California. Cars here are so...
Bruh my friend got a 2019 Honda Civic type r as his first car at 16. 1 year later he rolled over and wreaked it himself by trying to drift around corners at 3 in the morning on a hill
next fern
a type r is FWD why the fuck was he trying to drift in it
lmao
he do a drive train swap?
@urban moon
charred depot
lift off + handbrake fwd driftiin
deep oasis
everyones first car should be a civic shitbox tbh
flint sable
My dad and I are going to check out the panel gap mobile
civic spoke
Tesla?
civic spoke
2014 model s
Does that still get the unlimited free charging?
dense shard
Might want to get the suspension and MCU recall done first.
And whatever other issues the NHTSA is mandating for a recall.
Also I would 100% rock a Zuk.
Also I love the fact that Zuk translates directly to "beetle"
Also the rant on the engine is great.
river jasper
everyones first car should be a civic shitbox tbh
not for me
id rather buy old lada or bmw lol
fathom socket
elfin sequoia
Only thing left is the caravan and im ready
civic girder
The Caravan is dead last I checked
It'd be the Pacifica, which is a totally different platform
fathom socket
Hellcat Pacifica sounds amazing
A successor to the manual turbo Toyota previa
At least in its general spirit of “lol van go brrrrrr”
I still love the previa for being a shining example of Toyota not really knowing what Americans like
“Well they liked the MR2, mid engine, manual, and cheap”
“We’ll make a mid engine, manual minivan that’s cheap”
Meanwhile Mitsubishi is sitting over there with their heads up their asses debating whether or not to make the Delica American
dense shard
Minivans are a shrinking market in the US.
If the Delica doesn't sell, Mitsubishi will be in a worse spot than they are now.
Also I'd say GM's logo change is more significant than FCA/PSA's new logo.
Otherwise Honda wouldn't have agreed to have GM build their EVs.
elfin sequoia
It'd be the Pacifica, which is a totally different platform
Its literally the same thing
elfin sequoia
Otherwise Honda wouldn't have agreed to have GM build their EVs.
Thats probably because the eu fines for fca vehicles
dense shard
what?
elfin sequoia
Eu has the stupid emissions thing
dense shard
I wouldn't call it stupid tbh.
I like clear skies and clean air.
And Honda's GM built EVs will be sold in the US only from what I can tell.
elfin sequoia
Their emission thing is completely stupid
They can have every car in their line up get 1 mpg and sell a couple evs to make up for it
It has nothing to do with emissions
stoic ledge
For that you have to sell a lot of EVs tho lol
The avg C02-emissions of the fleet has to be <90 or <95 grams/km
elfin sequoia
Pretty sure it doesnt go off sales
stoic ledge
Wdym
elfin sequoia
I thought it was just based on what you sell not how much you sell
stoic ledge
It's based on the average emissions of the entire fleet of sold cars
elfin sequoia
Because what happens if you sell 100 hellcats but 1 neon
stoic ledge
(using the standardized WLTP testing method)
elfin sequoia
It averages out to 30mpg but the people decided to buy one
stoic ledge
Because what happens if you sell 100 hellcats but 1 neon
You won't sell them in Europe lol 
elfin sequoia
Pretty sure you cant do that
stoic ledge
To reach 95gr/km of CO2, you need to drive 24km/l, or 4.1l/100km or 56-57 MPG US on average
stoic ledge
No Dodge is being officially sold in Europe
elfin sequoia
29 are electric
Ones gas
And no one buys the electric ones
Its my fault?
How?
elfin sequoia
The us courts would find it anti competitive
stoic ledge
Tbh I don't think it's a bad system
It's very competitive lol
Every company trying to make the best EV/PHEV etc
The amount of new PHEVs revealed last year just because of those rules are immense
elfin sequoia
So what i have nothing to start from and have no idea how to make them i give up more money to companies that do so i get completely screwed as im running out of money any way thru fines or payment until my company goes bankrupt?
How about give them monevy for ev r&d instead of fining them?
stoic ledge
It's not like doing something for the environment hasn't been a thing for decades... If you're starting now you're already way too late tbh
civic spoke
Mild hybrids make a lot of sense. Remove the idling and 0-10 mph speeds
stoic ledge
You can always try to work together with another company which already have created EV platforms of some sort
elfin sequoia
Well some companies main markets are people who like gas engines in other countries
dense shard
If you are just now starting out with developing an EV, that's not anti-competitive.
That's just an automaker being stupid.
civic spoke
If the ICE engine only kicks on when required, say once you're out of first gear.
stoic ledge
Well some companies main markets are people who like gas engines in other countr...
Well then Europe isn't for you lol
Many European buyers also wouldn't look for those cars
elfin sequoia
But that 1 car sold there imma get fined out the ass
civic spoke
Problem is that there needs to be a market for EV's for EV's to exist.
civic spoke
Can't take an EV 100's miles out into the desert - Is what I'm saying.
elfin sequoia
Me
civic spoke
And if you don't have the network to charge it, then it has no use either.
dense shard
Most of the US lives in a city.
Most of Europe ... well Europe doesn't really American amounts of space.
civic spoke
I meant if you don't have the network.
stoic ledge
But that 1 car sold there imma get fined out the ass
How? If I have like 1 EV model and 1 gas model, and the gas model does 10MPG US, when I sell 5 EVs for every 1 gas model I'm perfectly allowed to sell the gas guzzler
elfin sequoia
Closest supercharger to me is 90 miles
civic spoke
EV's makes a lot of sense as your primary daily driver. But then you might also need a second ICE car.
elfin sequoia
And thats down a highway dubbed deadliest in the us
dense shard
90 miles to a supercharger isn't bad.
You charge at home, leave home with a full battery.
Drive into town and back with charge to spare.
civic spoke
You charge at home, leave home with a full battery.
Can't charge at home if you street park.
dense shard
That's a different issue.
civic spoke
Or live in apartment, etc.
dense shard
And living in the middle of a desert implies garage parking... or a house.
stoic ledge
In 2020, 20% of the cars were BEV here. 70% had atleast some sort of electrification (MHEV, HEV, PHEV, FCEV, BEV) 
fathom socket
places like this are why you wont see EV's outside of cities in america
100 miles+ of nothing, not a single place to stop
elfin sequoia
Utah epic
dense shard
Here's the thing about cities.
fathom socket
or like mojave desert, central oklaholma, parts of texas, kansas as a whole
dense shard
and suburbs for the most part.
They represent a tiny portion of the population.
An outlier case can't drive market forces.
elfin sequoia
stoic ledge
Just because the US is different/larger/more spreaded doesn't mean the European approach is bad for Europe. The average 95gr/km CO2 goal is easily achievable if you're no ancient company
dense shard
I'm 3 miles away from a supercharger.
MK is probably fairly close to a public charger as well.
elfin sequoia
Just because the US is different/larger/more spreaded doesn't mean the European ...
No its bad for us companies
civic spoke
There's A supercharger in Stockholm. A single one.
dense shard
Okay, how many public chargers?
civic spoke
Red = Supercharger.
The others are destination chargers.
dense shard
Last I checked Teslas can charge at most public chargers in Europe... y'know being CCS and all.
civic spoke
I would 100% get an EV if we had charging available in the shared garage.
fathom socket
"what does 'nowhere' look like?"
i-70 in utah, nowhere looks like i-70 in utah
dense shard
I lived in New Mexico... I live in North Dakota.
I'm well aware of how middle of nowhere is.
stoic ledge
I have a slow 11kWh public charger nearby (300 yards) in my tiny ass village (< 1000 inhabitants), Tesla Supercharger is like 4 miles away, and there are also some more general rapid chargers within the 10 mile radius
dense shard
Yes, there are cases where EVs aren't practical.
elfin sequoia
50kw+
dense shard
But for the majority of American who can currently afford an EV... range is a non-issue.
That's better than ND.
stoic ledge
No its bad for us companies
US companies have been gone for basically a decade, only selling US company now is Tesla
dense shard
We have 4 super chargers, and nothing else.
civic spoke
If you have the ability to install a charger at home. Then it's 100% worth it.
dense shard
If you can afford a 50k car, chances are you have a home. lol
elfin sequoia
US companies have been gone for basically a decade, only selling US company now ...
U calling the c8 bad?
Brave
dense shard
Is it good?
stoic ledge
civic spoke
If you can afford a 50k car, chances are you have a home. lol
You would think that. But many cities don't have that kind of space.
elfin sequoia
Ferrari for 60k heck yeah
dense shard
Most people commute.
civic spoke
Isn't 40% of the sales going to China? Something massive like that.
dense shard
suburbs are huge.
elfin sequoia
I love where i live but its trash
elfin sequoia
If i ever wanna open a factory i know where
Housing for 100k people but 70k are here for the oil
civic spoke
Tesla is kinda boned if China ever decides to cut off Tesla...
elfin sequoia
Not really
civic spoke
Imagine losing 40% of your sales.
That's BAD.
elfin sequoia
China is buying chinese evs not really teslas
dense shard
Then again VW also represents a viable threat.
civic spoke
China is great at making their own products.
civic spoke
China is buying chinese evs not really teslas
China literally bought 120,000 Tesla cars in 2020.
dense shard
Sure, but Tesla has harnessed the Apple cult effect.
120k is a huge portion of total Tesla sales.
stoic ledge
ID.3 outsold every car in my country in just 3 months of sales
elfin sequoia
China literally bought 120,000 Tesla cars in 2020.
Out of 500k
civic spoke
I wouldn't ever want to be dependent on a single country.
And every other manufacturer is going to become a threat to Tesla now that they are bringing out their own products.
elfin sequoia
Pretty sure tesla is making a chinese factory that will pump out 500k a year alone
dense shard
uhuh
stoic ledge
There are loads of Chinese companies dependant on simply China :)
dense shard
Telsa was talking about how Fremont could build a million 500k units a year.
Turns out Fremont couldn't hit 500k even under Toyota.
civic spoke
Pretty sure tesla is making a chinese factory that will pump out 500k a year alo...
Fun fact about that factory.
Tesla can't really say no to the Chinese government if they ask something of them.
dense shard
Every single year that goes by, Tesla cars become less desirable for me.
stoic ledge
Well atleast the Tesla's from the China factory aren't worse than the US Tesla's
dense shard
Their cost cutting is beyond silly.
civic spoke
Every single year that goes by, Tesla cars become less desirable for me.
Agreed.
There are so many more EV's that I find desirable.
stoic ledge
I'm actually very curious about the Hyundai Ioniq model lineup, the Ioniq 5 will be released soon
dense shard
I mean... it's like the Model Y's new die casting structural bits for the car.
civic spoke
ID.4 is also a thing.
dense shard
Everyone is ooh'ing and ahh'ing at that.
There's a fucking good reason other automakers don't do die cast structural components.
stoic ledge
An EV hatchback from Kia/Hyundai, seeing how good the e-Niro/Kona-Elrctric is I have high hopes
dense shard
Die casting is cheaper, that's it.
Otherwise stamped/folded sheet metal is lighter and stronger
stoic ledge
VW ID. line-up is definitely not bad, but is not as groundbreaking as the mentioned it would be (imho)
civic spoke
VW's can't really do groundbreaking stuff. They aren't meant to in my eyes.
stoic ledge
Yes but it doesn't provide better specs than let's say the Kia e-Niro which has been around for 3 years
Doesn't mean it's a a bad car
dense shard
Honestly.
stoic ledge
I just expected more
civic spoke
If a person wanted a high tier EV sedan. Then they are probably more likely to get a Taycan, and not the Model S.
stoic ledge
Definitely
civic spoke
Brand recognition, and all of that.
stoic ledge
Toyota's is rumored to be.
Is Toyota working on a BEV?
I don't think there's one scheduled soon
civic spoke
You never know. tbh
stoic ledge
The UX300e is probably "their" only EV? Not really a good one for outside of Japan
stoic ledge
You never know. tbh
Sure definitely, but you'd expect atleast same scoop/leak/...
civic spoke
Toyota/Lexus have done hybrids for so many years now.
stoic ledge
Yes their hybrids are the best around
dense shard
Rumors are Toyota has a solid state BEV in the next few years.
Their EV drivetrain is good.
stoic ledge
Also the reason why they don't have to rush EVs in Europe as they'll meet the EU emissions goals with those
I'm also curious to see what PSA is doing, they must be developing something for Peugeot/Citroen/Opel/DS and soon FCA (Fiat/Alfa) with Stellantis
Their small *do it all platform is fun and all for small vehicles but that won't work for larger cars
They'll probably also benefit from a dedicated platform
civic spoke
BMW had to do the 340i, and the rest of the X40i's be a mild hybrid because of all the emissions regulations, right?
stoic ledge
Yeah well making MHEVs saves a few to maybe even 10 gr/km per sold car without that much development effort, so it's a smart choice to make the goal more reachable
civic spoke
A little goes a long way.
dense shard
I can't see Stellantis end well for Chrysler.
stoic ledge
Well what do they still offer, the Pacifica and the 300C and that's it?
The Pacifica isn't that bad inho, the 300C is ancient and won't be updated atleast until the Dodge Charger gets updated me thinks
civic girder
The Pacifica is the only decent thing in the entirety of FCA imo, besides maybe the Italian Miata and maybe some of the RAMs
beyond that, they're basically defunct
stoic ledge
Maybe they can add like a rebadged Peugeot 508 saloon car or something
Or like Peugeot CUV's
civic girder
the Dodge Charger has basically been unchanged for like 13 years?
stoic ledge
I think PSA would like to move Peugeots under the Chrysler name in the US
civic girder
yea
the Caravan was just as old when it retired in 2015
The Pacifica is at least new
but I'd really only buy the Pacifica Hybrid personally
stoic ledge
Dodge Magnum production started back in February 2004 apparently, which I think was the first car on that platform? So almost 17 years old
civic girder
sounds about right
Chrysler is just as lazy as Nissan
Nissan platforms haven't changed much at all for just as long
civic girder
The Frontier is worse because it looks literally identical
I guess that's not much different from the Challenger tho
stoic ledge
Yeah not from the Challenger
civic girder
I don't think the GTR has changed significantly either
stoic ledge
Atleast they updated the Challengers interior no?
civic spoke
Remember when the Tesla Roadster was supposed to be released in 2020?
civic girder
I think the Toyota platforms are also pretty ancient. But at least Toyota built new things with them
stoic ledge
Remember when Tesla was supposed to make a €30k car? Still waiting on that one as well
Toyota has TNGA now
That's a recent platform, and a good one
civic girder
Remember when Tesla was supposed to make a good car?
civic spoke
Wasn't there a more affordable Model 3 for a short while?
stoic ledge
Wasn't there a more affordable Model 3 for a short while?
Never in Europe, there a SR in the US but even that would be more than €35k here (base in EU is SR+)
civic spoke
Short range one. Just so that they had a model in that price range so that they would get government incentives.
civic girder
I like how the base model Model 3 was called the Standard +
stoic ledge
They had a non-+ one for a while
civic girder
I still remember when my friends mom told us she bought the "one above base, the standard plus"
stoic ledge
Might be gone now
stoic ledge
SR is Special Request only, call or in-store order only
SR maybe stands for Special Request
civic spoke
Oh. Right. Model S Plaid is supposed to come in 2021
civic spoke
It's actually the price of the Taycan to get it.
Who in their right mind would get the Tesla?
Unless they wanted to get it for the Spaceballs reference.
stoic ledge
I'm no VAG fan but the Porsche is a waaay better car
Model S in 🇳🇱
- 2018: 5622
- 2019: 527
- 2020: 292
And the "cheap" Taycans aren't for sale yet right?
But also there in thar price segment they'll get some competition soon with the BMW i7 and MB EQS etc
paper kernel
unborn cedar
Tesla has kind of lost its market position now and theres not much point there unless you're buying it because it has a tesla badge on it
A Porsche Taycan is literally cheaper than most of the trim levels that Tesla offers
Sure you get a base model for around £50,000, but nobody is actually buying those, right? £2000 for self driving, £2000 for this, and that, and you are basically talking the same value figures as a Porsche Taycan
Tesla is the newcomer to the car market but their prices really dont reflect that lmao
round turtle
All of the above + the quality of Porsche is way better than Tesla
unborn cedar
Exactly
They dont have the 100 years of experience that most other brands bring to the table and it really shows, yet they don't price accordingly to it
round turtle
Tesla is the newcomer to the car market but their prices really dont reflect tha...
It's not really the price, but the quality
unborn cedar
If Toyota made a car that had the bumper fall off driving through a puddle it would be scandalous
round turtle
from what I noticed their bodywork is even worse than my own Citroen C1
unborn cedar
Oh yeah the panel gap issues
round turtle
and that has some atrocious panel works
unborn cedar
Smth like the average tesla has like 2.4 issues that require a recall
unborn cedar
And yet Citroen know better than to churn cars out with gaping panel gap issues
Just because your car is cheap you don't want the car to have that reflection lmao
Most people are happy to pay a little more to pay for QC inspectors' wages
round turtle
Well those cheaper, have bigger gaps or miss at least 5 years of savety & fuel innovation 😛
unborn cedar
I'm not aware of any panel gap issues on my car and it's nearly 30 years old, mind you it's a GT car so you wouldn't expect any regardless
round turtle
Sure I can buy a €3000 car with smaller gaps, but it won't have good/decent airco
Well for a long time they minimised gaps overall because they thought it would be bad.
after 2000 they realised only gaps in certain areas is important.
however Tesla didn't get the memo that expensive cars never should have big gaps.
dense shard
Issue isn't panel gaps. (To an extent)
It's inconsistent gaps.
Trim that's not aligned.
Lack of symmetry is what people notice the most. Dodge Vipers also have panel gaps, but they're consistent.
civic girder
that is true
And I would argue the inconsitency of the gaps is just something people have jumped on to add fuel to the fire
they have quality issues overall
dense shard
Yeah. Inconsistent panel gaps are just one aspect.
And it turns out the least of their issues.
Suspension missing bolts and a dying MCU is worse.
simple steppe
teal dune
elfin sequoia
A Porsche Taycan is literally cheaper than most of the trim levels that Tesla of...
What world do you live in? My word a fully loaded tesla model s performance is the same price as a base taycan
The plaid model s is quicker cheaper and probably faster around the track than a taycan turbo s
unborn cedar
Quicker to go back to a recall too if that's the model you want to compare to, the 4s is not much higher than base price on the model s
Model 3 is cheaper sure but that's not even the same class
elfin sequoia
Only problems tesla has had are panel gaps
unborn cedar
That's being a bit dishonest
I'm sure I'm being unfair and the porsche is probs more expensive in the US market because of distance shipping and all that
But regardless its not the best choice for a quality top market and its not the best choice for a cheap EV either;- it doesn't really have a place outside of just owning a tesla because it's a tesla
unborn cedar
We will see in a few years
They've ridden the wave of being one of the first to adapt to a new technology but the real test will be when they have to adapt to the market that its created
elfin sequoia
Youre never gonna get the same ooo a tesla from people with any other brand
stoic ledge
Like seeing a Tesla is a good thing
I mostly go Ew a Tesla
You're not getting the same with any other brand
unborn cedar
I'm fairly neutral on it, I used to think it was a cool thing to see but the gimmick wears off
stoic ledge
It's not even the cars which bother me (although not really good looking etc) but mainly the way the company behind it works
unborn cedar
Now it's kinda just another car on the road like a MB or a BMW, it's not got that same pull as saying "oh cool a rolls royce" or etc
elfin sequoia
We have more gt3s in town than all of teslas bmws and mbs combined
I saw my first bmw 2 days ago
elfin sequoia
Yeah
unborn cedar
Bmws are extremely common in Europe
stoic ledge
I have more Porsches in my town than Tesla's
Not really saying much as there are 2 Porsches and 1 Tesla :hahakek:
elfin sequoia
I mean ive seen plenty of older bmws
But no new ones
We have like 4 gt3s 6 boxters and a few caymans
1 of the 4 is an rs to
dense shard
I'd say the new VW line up of EVs is 100% competitive to Tesla. Doesn't hurt that VWs are still good for the tax credit.
The new Mach E is a direct competitor to the Model Y. Arguably superior. Forced Tesla to release a budget version of the Y.
The Taycan 4S is about 30k cheaper than the Model S Plaid... which starts at 140k.
Model S starts at 65-ish k. Honestly any car that somehow doubles it's price from base is highly questionable as a value.
Be it a Mirage or an S-class.
dense shard
Test drive what?
dense shard
Make sure to ask how many times the MCU has been replaced.
If it's been a year, I'd walk away.
stoic ledge
Taycan 4S is starting from €110k here, Model S Performance is €102k
Plaid is expected to be €140k
Yeah the MCU
Luckily they shortened the warranty on it
No wait
dense shard
They're recalling it in the US.
Because when it dies, car functions are limited.
And oh man the comments on that article were great.
"It's not a hardware fault guys, it's totally a software fault"
Like it makes a difference.
Lack of foresight led to underpowered memory for future applications and/or software updates failed to take into account the weak hardware.
stoic ledge
"It's not a hardware fault guys, it's totally a software fault"
If it's a software fault, their amazing OTA updates should be able to fix it
dense shard
For a company that makes everything in house, and has integration between everything, they fucking suck at integration.
stoic ledge
dense shard
Then again I'd say all companies integrate their parts?
Mazda has been exceptionally good.
elfin sequoia
The mach e is literal trash
And ford knows it
Just trying to hide it behind a name
dense shard
How is it literal trash?
Everything I've heard about it makes it out to be a fairly decently driving EV. A few compromises, but good build quality, decent enough infotainment, nice styling.
stoic ledge
Yeah haven't really heard negative things about the Mach-e
The Mustang nameplate is imho wrong
dense shard
It makes sense tho.
stoic ledge
The rest of the car is 
dense shard
The Mustang name is the last nameplate Ford hasn't dragged through the mud.
charred depot
The tesla could of been a great long lasting car with its aluminium construction in el salt extreme areas
tesla's*
dense shard
It still can if they can fix their issues with cold weather.
elfin sequoia
Whats the range?
dense shard
Teslas are built for Cali climate, and it shows.
The range falls between the LR and the LR performance for Tesla.
Or thereabouts.
charred depot
yeah im just talking about general longevity, the parts supply being unreliable and what not ruins that
elfin sequoia
Isnt tesla drive train rated for a million miles?
dense shard
Their claim.
charred depot
can the battery last that long?
dense shard
Their MCUs fail within 3 years.
The newer Model 3s might not have that issue, but we'll have to wait and see.
elfin sequoia
Thats because its old
dense shard
Tesla bodies fail faster than the drivetrain.
A 5 year old car shouldn't fail.
There are 30 year old Honda out and about.
elfin sequoia
How about a 5 year old pc?
charred depot
the tesla's could of been cars that stayed on the road for 30 years
here no car really lasts past 20 years unless the owner really cares / has a bunch of welding done.
elfin sequoia
U saying a 5 year old pc is up to play flight sim?
dense shard
Buy me Flight Sim, and we can test your question right now.
charred depot
heres my family buying cars that are atleast 10 years old, what clowns
dense shard
A 20 year old Accord will still do it's job.
If a Tesla can't do it after 5, there are serious issues at play.
Cars aren't computers.
elfin sequoia
No but its not like 5 years ago we had computer tech that is up to todays minimums
stoic ledge
Yeah the average car here is 11 years old
stoic ledge
The tech in my car still works as it was when new
charred depot
can also even get parts for a 20 year old accord
elfin sequoia
Theyre trying to make it work
charred depot
that doesent mean it isnt scuffed af
unborn cedar
Like an iphone
dense shard
Here's my issue with Tesla's MCU.
The part that fails is/was an 8-16 gig eMMC module.
elfin sequoia
Yeah keep updating it with new features and slowing it down so it can use the new features
dense shard
Flash memory has always had limitations on writing.
Tesla, knowing that, developed and released software that would use up more of that memory, and write to it dramatically more often than it was rated for.
That is fine tbh.
If you make the media easily replaceable, then there is no real issue.
Call it a digital oil filter.
charred depot
say i had a tesla and mine failed what are my options really
dense shard
But Tesla's solution is soldered to the board, and they don't do chip replacements. They replace the entire unit... which costs thousands.
charred depot
does the person have to pay the thousands or tesla
dense shard
Tesla claims to be saving the planet, but their approach to right to repair and repairs in house paint a very wasteful company.
Ged, it depends.
a) it's within warranty: nice
b) it's out of warranty: pay a few grand
c) go to a 3rd party shop, and hope they do it right and tesla doesn't ban on you... a few hundred to priceless
d) get that recall notice
elfin sequoia
Its like a cvt really if you wanna compare it to a gas car
fair bronze
Tesla boy is long gone yet here we are
dense shard
Problem is a lot of these chips might get replaced within warranty, but they will fail sooner than later.
CVTs can last more than 3 years.
elfin sequoia
Sure they can
dense shard
We can meme on Nissan, but let's remember Honda transmissions in the 00s.
And GM, Ford transmissions in the 90s, 00s.
fair bronze
I blame Nissan for ruining the reputation of CVTs
dense shard
I think that's fair. It's up to them to fix it.
CVTs are perfectly fine for their applications. It won't be heavy duty or sports, but for daily driving? totally fine
elfin sequoia
I mean cvts are strong wear items
dense shard
Depends on the design.
fair bronze
^
dense shard
They can be fairly robust.
What killed a lot of automakers in the 2000s was the introduction of "lifetime fluids"
elfin sequoia
Doesnt mean its not a belt still
dense shard
No, they aren't lifetime, you need to replace them.
elfin sequoia
If they were good they would use them in f1 still
dense shard
Even a belt style CVT can last a long time if properly maintained.
F1 isn't a benchmark for useful technologies anymore.
fair bronze
If a truck gearbox was good it would be used in F1 100%
dense shard
Because most of the world doesn't use automated manuals.
fair bronze
How does that make sense lol
stoic ledge
dense shard
I think semi-trucks DO use F1 style transmissions.
elfin sequoia
F1 did try and use cvts
dense shard
Okay, and?
fair bronze
Bad idea
elfin sequoia
They blew up by the end of the race
dense shard
If we used F1 style transmissions in pedestrian cars, it would suck.
They would be rough, unpleasant, and likely not durable for daily applications.
dense shard
We don't.
Most modern cars are torque converted automatics.
Using planetary gears....
stoic ledge
There's also Formula-e, but F1 still uses gas -> gas engines > electric engine
elfin sequoia
Alot of hifh end cars have gone to dual clutch
stoic ledge
🙃
dense shard
A lot of high end cars, and yet
BMW has abandoned DCTs.
New M5 is torque converted.
fair bronze
@stoic ledge I like your thinking
dense shard
Ford has abandoned their dual clutch transmission.
stoic ledge
<@!231397426559188993> I like your thinking
Using the same kind of thinking 😛
fair bronze
Haha
elfin sequoia
Looks at 2021 gt 500
dense shard
I'm looking at the 2021 F90 M5.
stoic ledge
BMW uses mostly ZF 8HP, only like their Mini-based transversal engines option have a 7DCT
dense shard
And that will likely change moving forward.
The GT500 is a sports car.
I'm talking mass consumer cars like the Accord or Camry.
Or Pilot and Rogue since we live in a crossover society.
stoic ledge
Not shifting as all would be ever better, and having more gear ratios if even better
dense shard
A DCT ideally is more mechanically efficient.
dense shard
That is actually true.
And a CVT can always be inside the car's most efficient engine speed.
unborn cedar
What killed a lot of automakers in the 2000s was the introduction of "lifetime f...
And the absolute BANE of mechanics today, do you know what gearbox oil that's done 200000 miles over 20 years looks and smells like?
unborn cedar
:)
elfin sequoia
Theyre working on making old tech better not making new tech
charred depot
how often on average does oil need changed in a manual trans
charred depot
ive never really heard of anyone doing it
most of our cars rot out before 150k miles though
dense shard
30k according to Toyota.
charred depot
crikey
stoic ledge
We got it changed in the Meriva at ~80k miles
dense shard
Tho that might be just a dealer thing.
elfin sequoia
Sealed trans 
unborn cedar
Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if a skyactiv approach to an engine is more carbon neutral than a lithium battery, they really need to make advances in stuff like capacitor technology
charred depot
one of our cars is at 130k never having it done
dense shard
According to Mazda, their cars need to hit 56 mpg to remain relevant against EVs.
stoic ledge
My dad only had it done because it was getting harder to shift in first
elfin sequoia
Theyre "sealing" everything anymore and its getting really anoying
dense shard
Which is why they have added a turbo and reduced MPGs in the US.
unborn cedar
Makes sense
charred depot
mines a bit like that
dense shard
Automakers stopped the sealed nonsense in the 2010s.
charred depot
have to sorta fiddle with the clutch so it will let me in first
elfin sequoia
My grandpas 2016 ford has a sealed rad
dense shard
Because cars breaking down more often is less appealing than paying the dealer a few hundred to change fluids ever few years.
stoic ledge
My "sealed for life" transmission can just as well get new oil lol
unborn cedar
My car is 30 and hasn't had dif oil changed before, I'm excited
elfin sequoia
I mean it doesnt have a resivour
unborn cedar
To smell that
charred depot
our civic hasnt had a oil change in ages but it pisses out oil
stoic ledge
have to sorta fiddle with the clutch so it will let me in first
Might be a good time to get the fluid changed 😛
charred depot
so passive oil change?
stoic ledge
For the Meriva it was like €75 to get the trans fluid changed out lol, so fairly cheap imho
charred depot
ours is a D16
dense shard
here we go.
unborn cedar
Oof
dense shard
Corolla asks you replace the automatic trans fluid every 60k.
"if towing, heavy vehicle load or car top carrier"
charred depot
thats automagic though
stoic ledge
Yeah for autos its more common
dense shard
You aren't missing much.
stoic ledge
Ok I've checked, and it was €73.63 to change the transmission fluid apparently (1.8L + Diff and Gear treatment)
Random number
dense shard
It's a car that doesn't need to be shifted. You press the go pedal, and it goes.
unborn cedar
Oh I am imagine what it's like to drive and I'm not sure it's for me
That's why I haven't bought one
stoic ledge
dense shard
Once you get used to it, it's fine.
unborn cedar
I don't drive to zone out if you get me
dense shard
I do, and I still drive a manual.
charred depot
i zone out in my manual all the time
dense shard
We shouldn't zone out tbh.
charred depot
i started driving to the completely wrong place just because i went on autopilot today
dense shard
lol
unborn cedar
Yeah for sure but it still retains that level of awareness in what you're doing
Coming off an offramp shift down etc it's an extra thing you think about and keeps you in the moment more imo
dense shard
Anyway. if you know how to manual, totally worth the cost savings over an automatic.
Otherwise, at this time I'd probably go automatic.
charred depot
tis just what the used market is here, not many cheap small automatics or automatics at all really on the market
dense shard
In the US it's 95% automatics.
charred depot
i need tiny car so insurance doesent beam me
dense shard
I accidentally bought a smaller car.
charred depot
happy accident?
unborn cedar
I'm not sure what market trends show about accidents but it would be wrong in America anyway, since manuals are something only people who enjoy driving buy anyway
dense shard
Emotionally? Net zero.
charred depot
small cars are better here, less issues with space.
dense shard
I got a hatchback for something more practical, but the space isn't much.
Manuals are bought by car guys, and car guys never buy new.
charred depot
its always fun seeing a big bmw suv taking up 70% of the road and still being able to drive past
dense shard
Which is why automakers have stopped offering manuals.
dense shard
yes, fixed
stoic ledge
I was confused lol
unborn cedar
Buying new really doesnt make much sense tho
dense shard
Car guys are the reason the choices we have today aren't that interesting.
unborn cedar
It's the problem though why get a brand new corolla when you can get a 5 year old M sport
dense shard
Because the 5 year old M sport isn't as reliable.
charred depot
because the insurance company will charge me £4000/y for the M sport :^|
unborn cedar
Reliable? Car guys don't care about that
dense shard
I do.
unborn cedar
Insurance is valid
stoic ledge
Well it has to be somewhat reliable lol
dense shard
I like driving, not wrenching.
unborn cedar
Alright comparing it to an extremely reliable car is unfair
Why buy a brand new Nissan qashqui when you can get a 5 year old lexus
dense shard
I mean... let's scale it down. New Corolla vs a last gen one.
dense shard
The Auris is a worse car than the new hatchback in every way but boot space.
Tho styling on the Auris is snappy. ngl
charred depot
my max budget for initial spending on cars is basically £2000
unborn cedar
I got a 3000gt for £400
charred depot
barn find one ive seen listed near me for ages
dense shard
I ended up going for a new Corolla because I wanted something with a warranty, zero headaches, and something actually new new. Used hatchback corollas were pushing 20k.
unborn cedar
Not a wise investment by any means but eh
charred depot
hes struggling to get rid of it
unborn cedar
I love it
dense shard
I could spend 20k getting a used car that wasn't exactly what I wanted. Or I could get a new XSE for a few grand more and get it all.
charred depot
unfortunetely cars just disappear after 20 years old here so nothing too interesting
stoic ledge
The Auris is a worse car than the new hatchback in every way but boot space.
Basically only reason the Auris sold reasonable here was because it was available as a Hybrid Wagon, and people only got it for that reason. It was quite mediocre in every other single way
unborn cedar
my max budget for initial spending on cars is basically £2000
If you're a new driver worried about insurance, little tip from me is to look into MPVs, insurance rates are based somewhat on accident rates for the car model and MPVs don't tend to be in many accidents
charred depot
i ran quotes on hundreds of cars and found a 1.3 mazda 2 to be the cheapest
unborn cedar
Compared to something like a Ford focus which has done a tour de ditch
unborn cedar
I got a Nissan almera tino 2.2 insured for £700 as a 18 year old
I do have a postcode lottery on insurance prices tho
charred depot
mine was £500 at 18
charred depot
yeah shame is can only be used on one car
thinking of getting a cheap project, wish i could take my no claims off my mazda
discount is much more meaningful on something that costs more to insure : /
ages ago we had a old astra stolen and set on fire in a field which wasnt very nice, atleast our cars now cant be stolen with a screwdriver atleast i hope.
unborn cedar
Vauxhall nova
charred depot
heh i hope it wasnt as easy as the nova to steal
unborn cedar
That things a meme
charred depot
id love one now though
unborn cedar
You can flip the hazard switch upside down and it will supply power to ignition so you can just bump start it
stoic ledge
Not on my Corsa 
charred depot
dont have to worry, who steals corsas nowadays.
unborn cedar
Lmao
charred depot
not suprised golfs are on there
unborn cedar
charred depot
who tf stealin fiat 500's though?
unborn cedar
Apparently Jeremy Clarkson had a cavalier that was stolen with this exact method
stoic ledge
For 2020 I only have a Top 5, and it's based on the likeliness (so #stolen/#registered). Toyota CH-R is very high up on that list
- Toyota C-HR – 1/195
- Toyota RAV4 – 1/460
- Audi A1 – 1/485
- Fiat 500 – 1/659
dense shard
back to playing Art of Rally
charred depot
arent A1's more expenisve than A3's
stoic ledge
Not here
charred depot
yeah i seem to remember the A1 being more expensive back in like 2015
civic spoke
Oh, wait. Those aren't even the same engine. 30 TFSI (petrol) and the 30 TDi (diesel)
The A1 doesn't come with a diesel.
fathom socket
i guess it does lol
charred depot
have some rust pron
casual oil leak dripping down just at the right side of the shock
id love to replace the flex brake line along with the shock but the hard line is fecked too so
remote ridge
So I've seen many videos about ls swapping a miata
How much harder would it be to rotary swap
Like take the engine from an rx-8 and shove it in a miata
charred depot
why downgrade?
dense shard
I imagine it would be easy enough.
remote ridge
I currently have the stock engine in my 91 miata so the rx-8 engine would double horsepower
And sound cooler
dense shard
But you could quadruple it with an LS swap.
remote ridge
True but why be powerful when you can be cooler
charred depot
the rx8 engine would also get like 4mpg :^) and have questionable reliability.
dense shard
But I imagine it could be done easily enough.
If you can fit an LS in, you can 100% fit a rotary in.
And it would be something fairly unique.
Which is cool in my books.
dense shard
Practical solution is to K-swap a Miata. Flex is LS. Something unique... well you're staying within Mazda's family of engines, so there's that.
Well there are kits for LS swaps and K swaps. Not sure about rotary. Might have to fab up your own mounts and the such.
charred depot
im in the UK so LS swaps arent everywhere
remote ridge
Oh yeah, their wouldn't be nearly as much aftermarket for it
dense shard
And Renesis isn't known for being a brilliantly durable engine.
remote ridge
Isn't car modding in general just not really all that common in the UK
civic girder
LS swaps are so old
dense shard
But reliable cheap ways to make more power.
civic girder
"cheap"
charred depot
we have to declare our mods to insurance or risk loosing our license
remote ridge
Ah okay
dense shard
400 horsepower for a couple of grand, maybe.
charred depot
bumps up the insurance rates tonnes even for just lowering springs
civic girder
For the cost of swapping, you could have just bought and drove a car already equipped with an LS
remote ridge
Daaaang
dense shard
Getting that out of anything else would require a built engine.
charred depot
most insurance companies wont even consider engine swaps
remote ridge
For the cost of swapping, you could have just bought and drove a car already equ...
But not every cool looking car has an ls
dense shard
If I ever pick up a Volvo wagon, I'd 100% consider doing an LS or LT swap.
dense shard
Because 240s making 400 horsepower reliably on the stock motor isn't really a thing.
charred depot
insurance with mods only really becomes affordable at 25 years old sadly :^(
remote ridge
F
civic girder
Rather than go with the dead meme engine
remote ridge
I mean rotary still sounds cool and unique
dense shard
Creative and headaches, or fun and power.
civic girder
Yea a rotary Miata is much cooler than an LS Miata
charred depot
id of gotten a NA miata but not even being able to lower it a bit is beh
dense shard
As long as you're aware of the troubles, go for it.
civic girder
Creative and headaches, or fun and power.
That's pretty closed minded imo
remote ridge
I mean I would just get an rx-7 but the market for those is crazy high to get a running one
dense shard
You will find someone to help.
civic girder
What that basically implies is that anything else isn't fun and isn't faster than stock
dense shard
Going for a creative route might leave you with a headache that a community can't help with.
civic girder
Not necessarily
dense shard
Not sure how you got that from my statement, but okay.
I never said it's guaranteed, but the chances of a headache increase dramatically the more unique you try to go.
You could drop a V10 Viper engine into a Miata, but no one really does it.
Literally one of a kind.
civic girder
Engine swaps are never that cut and dry
charred depot
i know someone with a E39 520 which has essentially upgraded it (engine swapped) to be a 530, but now his insurance is more expensive than a 540
dense shard
No, but there are ways to make it more cut and dried than not.
remote ridge
Dude I couldn't imagine a viper engine in my miata
dense shard
There are easier paths and more difficult paths.
civic girder
My friend gave up LS swapping his Miata
dense shard
And when it comes to having kits vs having to fabricate your own hardware... I'd say the kit is an easier route.
civic girder
Ended up selling the Miata and just getting a Chevelle instead
dense shard
Okay.
remote ridge
Any engine swap is difficult
dense shard
And there are plenty of people who didn't give up.
remote ridge
But kits def make it easier
civic girder
Right
But he couldn't get a cheap enough motor and felt the kits weren't worth the price
remote ridge
Ouch
civic girder
In total it would've cost him like double what he could've just sold a running stock Miata for
And bought his Chevelle resto project for half what he sold the Miata for
remote ridge
My plan is to buy a half running rx8 take the internals and do some fabrication to get it to sit right
dense shard
A LS3 with transmission runs you 6 grand.
I'm sure you could find a junkyard gem for less.
civic girder
You could use the stock Miata trans with a rotary
civic spoke
How much power does the LS3 have? Something like 400 horse?
dense shard
400+
remote ridge
I think ls2 has 400
dense shard
Depends on the engine, trim, and super charger.
civic girder
Do you have a 5 speed @remote ridge ?
remote ridge
Ye
civic girder
That's basically the same trans I have in my RX-7, but with slightly different ratios
All you need is a rotary bell housing
civic girder
Yep. All you'll have to do is engine mounting and cooling, possibly fuel system
remote ridge
Odds are I would have to get a standalone ecu too right
civic girder
Theoretically you could use the stock RX-8 ecu if the donor car runs
civic girder
But if you wanted to tune it yea, you'd prolly need a standalone
remote ridge
Oh yeah and then it will stay within smog
civic girder
The only issue is the RX-8 ecu might have chipped keys
remote ridge
My biggest challenge will be keeping it within california regulations
civic girder
Leave california, ez
civic girder
I'm going to decat my RX-7 soon
remote ridge
Ah okay
civic girder
And keeping stock muffler, at least for now. Might go aftermarket muffler eventually
remote ridge
I would
stoic ledge
Straight pipe it
remote ridge
Not to be loud just to be loud but to get the right sound
civic girder
But it will get louder since I have to go aftermarket header to do the cat delete the easy way
Not sure if I'll decat the Corolla or not. If I don't, I may get a ebay cat. When I eventually header swap it, I bet the cat will fall apart from rust; and it's probably clogged anyways
civic girder
I would
Considering the cat delete is going to cost $600 total, with a new muffler costing $300 something on its own, I'll wait
civic girder
I mean, I could afford it. But it's not necessary and there's more shitboxes I want to buy
charred depot
japans finest green
civic girder
That's blue
charred depot
no its greeen
civic girder
civic girder
Somebody was colorblind
charred depot
G502M Aqua Green
dense shard
Not sure how automakers get green out of aqua, but okay.
fathom socket
nice green
civic spoke
Aqua is one of those weird colors.
flint sable
Make sure to ask how many times the MCU has been replaced.
Yeah 2013 model S, I’ll ask thanks
I love the chrome exhaust tips, they’re a pretty rare option
stoic ledge
exhaust tips