public-chat

[neon mesa]

and barely hanging on the X80 sector thanks to the shitty old 4080 pricing

[peak phoenix]

NV and AMD are both coming out with new products. We can only hope they compete witheachother and AMD is incentivized to push the cost envelope some

[full fossil]

True it's around £650 but the 78 was 490 so I went for that

[neon mesa]

This year we'll have 5000 series and RDNA 4

though more excitingly, battlemage arc

[peak phoenix]

X80 sold for that price so don't expect prices to drop lol

[neon mesa]

Ah how AMD have Nvidia has disappointed us to the point that arc is more exciting

[full fossil]

I'm actually excited for arc to grow and mature it'll bring some excitement back into the GPU game

[harsh quartz]

Silly boy, GPUs don’t grow, they upgrade

[peak phoenix]

And hopefully Intel also keeps Linux support going (they will)

I want options outside AMD for good Linux support

<insert Linus Torvalds nvidia fuck you GIF>

[full fossil]

I mean if Nvidia has anything to say about it... They definitely grow, you seen the 3090 Vs the 4090 KEKW

[still olive]

So I had a stock cooler that came with my cpu I've already built the pc and was wondering should I invest into a better Cooler my cpu is a 5500. If I should what would be some good budget coolers

[harsh quartz]

They just ate a lot last weekend

[full fossil]

Stick with stock for now if you notice your CPU is getting to hot to handle your workloads get an upgraded cooler : D

Is that good advice? Idk will it save you money if you end up not needing the upgrade, definitely!

[harsh quartz]

Arctic liquid freezer 3 420mm argb

[full fossil]

It's a 5500 brother that things gonna make it run at room temperature 🤣🤣

[crisp kestrel]

https://screenshare.pics/M7PHFY

[still olive]

Why rick roll

It didn't load any way

[still olive]

That's $200 AUD I asked for a budget one

[harsh quartz]

Didn’t specify what your budget was

[still olive]

Budget usually means something cheap

[harsh quartz]

Didn’t specify what cheap was

[karmic wedge]

hell yeah NZD$15 for empty boxes

[hexed blaze]

hellooo

I am having some pc issues

and I only joined this server for some help

its with predator sense and it not installing/lanching

well its kind of the only way I can controll my fans and rgb

[full fossil]

Key word once... It hasn't happened yet and "once" it does usually the older model drops In price...I don't have time to wait for that to happen, some of us are living. BUT when it does I'll be very upset that I could have saved money.

[hexed blaze]

so yeah bloatware that doesn't work

I have already looked up a shitton of guides online to get it fixing

none of them have worked at all

[full fossil]

I learned something today, if you want a smol case/compact case, go for a two in one solution. For example, I have smol case with big parts, for some silly reason I went for air cooler instead of aio liquid cooler. So, the air cooler dumps all the heat inside the case and the fans struggle to keep up. With an aio solution the air wouldn't be dumped inside the case as much and would be exhausted directly therefore keeping the case interior cooler for the GPU to dump heat!

[carmine stirrup]

Indeedily do 🙂

[hearty spear]

Reminder:
The Arctic Liquid Freezer 3 is out, and is on a /significant/ sale for launch.
Grab on Amazon if you want it!

[obsidian oriole]

Bread

[manic torrent]

you don't even know

[obsidian oriole]

Yeah I dont

Why u guys obsessed with 🍞

[manic torrent]

normal reasons

[full fossil]

You don't like bread rolls?

[obsidian oriole]

Nah i love bread

[pliant karma]

for bready reasons

[merry nacelle]

Don't worry about it

[pallid falcon]

Yes

[lime pollen]

The issue is that people know Windows and how it works. People like familiarity and find change hard.

[graceful burrow]

Linux is easy if you can follow documentation and aren't afraid of stepping out of your comfort zone

[pallid falcon]

found more general issues in own use cases but results will vary

Aws don't work well on Linux, couldn't get working

Constant issues with popshop when used pop

Fedora updates break drivers..

Spotify every once and a while corrupts with a symbol needing reinstalls...

[lime pollen]

What!? I have no issues on mac 🙃
Not like I can only screen share once while face timing, and then have to boot into safe mode to fix it.

[teal estuary]

MacOS is baed on Unix
Linux is a Unix-like kernel
they do not share direct lineage

[pallid falcon]

Is that a sot pfp

See of Thieves

[teal estuary]

no, not really

[pallid falcon]

Nt I think

[teal estuary]

Unix is an old OS developed at Bell labs in about 1970, the C programming language was created to write Unix with
derivatives of Unix have become FreeBSD, Darwin, and the PlayStation OS
Linux is a Unix-like kernel, which has reached near ubiquiti for everything that isn't desktops and Apple devices

[pallid falcon]

Only linux system I have that Don't crash often is steamdeck and my Lil servers

[teal estuary]

consumer editions of Windows 1.0-ME used DOS (note: there are other DOS variants than MS-DOS, and windows would run on top of them*)
starting with 3.1 there was also a professional version that used the NT (New Technology) kernel, which first shipped to consumers in XP and has been in use by all editions of windows since.

[pallid falcon]

Windows :3

They need a os called Shades

[polar fern]

@dreamy rose the lawsuit against Microsoft stealing code from Apple was eventually dismissed, but I do think that is what happened. Bill Gates always tried to play off this as if they somehow got their ideas from Xerox when they were not even on the radar of anyone at Microsoft.

[teal estuary]

the main things dos lacked was support for Preemption, though i think it got it at some point
also support for multiple cpus

[pallid falcon]

One second

[polar fern]

I think we need less artificial intelligence and more genuine compassion

Yes, I’m aware

It’s just layered algorithmic code

[polar fern]

One of the issues that I have with Apple’s new paradigm with their SOC’s is that the memory cannot be expanded later after purchase which means that in my opinion, you should be giving the customer the maximum allowable memory without some gigantic ridiculous premium

[pallid falcon]

If wanted overpriced would get a mac

[real stratus]

memory sure, but have you seen the storage premiums? inexcusable

[teal estuary]

the minimum should be reasonable (so, not 8GB), and the cost for more should be reasonable

they dont need to ship all SoCs with the maximum possible

[real stratus]

16 gb should be the standard though

8 gb is barley enough to run chrome

[teal estuary]

do you know what CPU it has?

RAM is cheap, increasing the amount from 8GB to 16GB costs fuckall

[real stratus]

have you seen newer chromebooks tho? 4 gb of ram literally designed to be a web browser box...

[teal estuary]

Intel did the same thing with DDR3/DDR4, its not new

6th gen CPUs support both

heres the ark page, lists both DDR4 and DDR3L
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/88195/intel-core-i76700k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz/specifications.html

[hearty spear]

As did 7th. Iirc 8th gen was ddr4 only

[teal estuary]

"7th"

[silver cradle]

Shit at $675 u might as well get a PS5 lol

[teal estuary]

production capacity

intel can crank out wayyyyy more CPUs than AMD can

even if AMD could convince all of them, they literally couldn't keep up with demand

[silver cradle]

W bro

[steel ember]

I heard msi motherboards are hard to configure in the bios, and they have slow boot times on am5, is this fake

[teal estuary]

the bios is fine, AM5 has a slow boot time as a whole, its not specific to any board manu

[steel ember]

if I still want to be able to start my computer in 15 seconds I will have to go intel? doesn't matter much because it can stay in sleep forever

[steep girder]

Wdym start? AMD and Intel builds should POST in less than like 5 sec usually. Otherwise something is likely wrong if it never gets faster. Slow POST usually means it can't for some reason then tries alternate configs or BIOS until it works

A lot of games on Steam have many different anticheats. If a Valve game has anticheat, it's almost definitely VAC

Pretty sure all (even VAC) anticheats scan other processes and send signatures to their company lol. I mean why trust VAC. It's the company

Either way the real talk with outrageous things like kernel driver anticheat (lol) isn't as much to do with privacy. It's more about the risk/reward as it relates to security at the baseline. Problem is you now have another kernel driver that is likely gonna hang there for the rest of time and not get updated.

The problem with anticheat on client is that it's an unreachable utopia. You can only make it more inconvenient for clients to read or tamper with the memory/traffic.

Kernel driver is it just got to a preposterous level. At least most ppl feel that way

Valve doesn't think that way btw

In fact it's the opposite. They allow and even take care of support for Linux for perhaps a larger portion of their games. They ship steam itself natively to Linux too.

But things like cod wz it wasn't an issue of Linux. More an issue of using any win nt other than 7 or 10 (later dropped 7 so only 10)

[pallid falcon]

PubG bans you for even having vmware workstation installed. Don't need to be open

[steep girder]

The game literally checked the version of windows somehow and refused to run if it was like 8 or 8.1. It had a compat mode with lesser direct x version to run on 7. So they could have done that on 8 or 8.1 and it would probably make no diff. If anything they could get it running without fixing anything big. But alas, the system requirements said 7 OR 10 so it ran only on those windowses lmfao

[steep girder]

Yeah and MTA:SA builtin anticheat I think temp bans you from any server you join while autohotkey is running at the same time for 10 min first time at least.

Which idk about second or third because I didn't try to join after that lol. I actually was one of the people that happened to run it without knowing about this. It was running for no reason whatsoever related to cheating or even the game itself lmfao

[pallid falcon]

I need vmware installed for classes qwq

[steep girder]

But funny enough AHK was running because I was on linux installing things to wine prefix using winetricks in background

So Linux and wine somehow manages to be the root cause here

And philosophically speaking, which is worse the anticheat blocking ahk altogether or an automated windows installer window using AHK to click next, etc

Because winetricks had certain install script options like .NET or visual c++ runtime I don't remember that needed clicking through essentially that same window from install binary you see in win. You can always resort to AHK I guess to move the mouse or press enter idk

[steep girder]

Right. Is it for things like you can't minimize the browser tab or window during online quiz? Because I mean if you are, that is cheating lol

[pallid falcon]

No. So can virtualize servers & clients & easily access sphere devices

[steep girder]

VMWare yeah probably kills any script in page that can check if browser window focused lmao. Again demonstrates how futile cheat detection is for clients (the hackers) environment. Even if they could somehow detect vmware (which browser page really shouldnt it would be considered a security vuln )...

watch me pull up calc.exe on second computer beside it lol

[pallid falcon]

Don't use for cheating in classes..

[steep girder]

Tbh watch me pull out texas instruments graphing calc. Detect this btch. I think some of them the prof just watches class over zoom call right?

I mean zoom call you can't stop video feed because it's sus. And maybe have a rule and call people out if their body leaves the frame lmfao. Now you can't pull out graphing calc. Or whatever is considered cheating material.

[steep girder]

Oh well you gotta do vmware for a class you mean lol.

[pallid falcon]

Yea..

Is literally prereq in class syllabus

[steep girder]

Bro nowadays fck anything to do with running vm yourself. Just kubernetes or some sht. Click deploy. Boom.

[pallid falcon]

Homies talking to a high kobold in a alien language

These??

[steep girder]

Yup deploying in container you don't care if it's vm or not

[pallid falcon]

O

Only container?

Our vms we use for stuff like

Windows domains n setting up web servers n stuff

❤️ Linux & nginx

Is different from docker?

[restive lion]

It's really not bs

[graceful burrow]

Isn't kubernetes for distributed computing across multiple "nodes" (systems)

[restive lion]

Supporting Linux is a massive Pandora's box, because of all the different software combinations at play to create the OS. Whereas on windows or macOS you're dealing with one core system each and any bugs caused by modifying that core system are dismissable.

[steep girder]

Kinda. You can use it for that I guess. It's made for deploying and running applications in a container. In the container you access services. The container can implement whatever tf it wants behind the service

[restive lion]

Proton does not mean supporting Linux

Proton means "I'm not actively trying to fuck over Linux users"

(Hi vanguard)

[steep girder]

I think the real conversation should sound like "supporting windows"

[restive lion]

That's irrelevant

[steep girder]

Because you can do pretty much anything you want with gnu c. Use any api you want for 3d graphics that isn't DirectX. Then you cross compile mingw binaries for windows too. Boom supports now perhaps any hardware linux 32 and 64 bit. Then also windows.

[restive lion]

Except that multiple libraries can be subbed out. A bug that might occur on open source NVIDIA drivers might not occur on the proprietary ones, or vice versa. Etc.

[steep girder]

There are probably still at least a couple places you use preproc to check build target win or linux idk. But every instance already when you build something you specify the target platform.

[restive lion]

Except that if you encounter bugs with a modified windows install, devs will tell you to fuck off

[steep girder]

So idk like maybe some method get user config dir. Windows you return %AppData%/Roaming/myapp/settings and linux you give ~/.myapp or ~/.config/myapp or .local or some sht

[restive lion]

Anyways I'm not interested in arguing with you since you've shown multiple times that you have no interest in having actual conversations when someone says something counter to your opinions, I'm just saying these things so that others don't believe falsely that Linux support is this easy thing for devs to make and maintain.

[steep girder]

Theres literally no way to cross platform where the correct place technically is for your apps per-user data. Which on windows btw idk but many people seem to not give a fk. Like roaming/.minecraft. Pretty sure the program is supposed to go into Local or LocalLow (whatever tf that is) /minecraft. But better yet /mojang/minecraft because it's publisher then app. The save files n options whatever go in Roaming. Should be that

[restive lion]

App data storage locations are a mess lol

Still not interested

[steep girder]

Both roaming and local should ideally have the same parent dir (the /mojang/minecraft part). Definitely should at least have its own subdirectory of some sort and not just dump sht into root of either. For temp files, technically youre supposed to use /local/temp

[restive lion]

Hardcoding these locations is a pain in the ass, and attempts to provide APIs tends to fall flat since the apis only work on their respective platform

A lot of devs just take the lazy way out as a result

[steep girder]

Right. So JDK has implementation I think in System class somewhere to get these things. Like the profile dir or documents dir idk. If you implement sht like that, it's probably useful and valid at this point to also just implement something that flat out identifies the platform itself.

[restive lion]

Languages implementing it is good, in Minecraft's specific case, the code is kind of shite if you've ever seen it lol

[steep girder]

System.getProperty("os.name") after you check that it exists in System.getProperties().list(PrintStream?)

[restive lion]

I retract my previous statement, that api sucks

[pallid falcon]

Watch your language!

[steep girder]

Which lol it's kinda a good idea to make the properties themselves not static. What would even the 'OS Build' of a linux distrib be?

[restive lion]

They don't need to be static to not suck

[polar fern]

When your IT ticket shows closed when you’ve not been contacted

[steep girder]

They don't. I mean really you just gotta have whatever it is needed about platform if you have a cross plat application. Also that's as far as whatever 'platform' means. Like for OpenJDK, what if I make a changed implementation that always returns those properties as if it were some windows nt build?

Somebody runs their java app on my openjdk compiled for linux. Their app checks properties and gets them thinking it's running on windows platform. What can happen after that? It's worth considering

Idk like any inputstream or some sht that was directed to file using URI might not work on linux if it starts with 'file://C:/'

But then again, if I wrote an app either way I would virtually always probably check if file exists regardless and catch IOException at least. Files can not be there sometimes and it's kinda important not to attempt to read anything I need from wherever it isn't

Actually wtf when you consider how just slash for root (so I think file:///blah) usually works even on DOS-like file structure. I think most of the time if it works, you can expect whatever the 'cd' is of environment drive letter root. So if I started java.exe -classpath "blah;blah" org.dreet.myapp.Main in any dir on C: drive, / on windows would be C:/

Which points out the problem with user dir or program files dir being on one drive letter always. So you need to know drive letter (which is essentially a separate root in broader terms) as well as a dir path for profile directory on windows. On linux, it's just a dir path because you only really have one root in your env. Goes to show how cross-platform is tricky

[pallid falcon]

[steep girder]

You're not even getting the same 'property' from your 'OS' all the time in philosophical terms. Windows tbh why tf is the drive letter with system always C:

[pallid falcon]

Because

John Windows said so

[steep girder]

Nah DOS did it pretty sure

[pallid falcon]

John Dos said so *

[steep girder]

So the guy who developed it in his basement from whom Gates and Paul Allen I think his name is bought it. He made it so. Why? Idk. I mean you have 26 different options A to Z lmao

[pallid falcon]

Z :3

You can

And beyomd

:3

[steep girder]

It stands for disk-based operating system right? Each drive letter was probably supposed to be a disk. IRL today NT you can mount a separate volume w file system, just a directory within a file system (with some third party soft at least), a network path to SMB share //COMPUTER/share/anysubdirectories/inside

And if you run out of drive letters, you can still use UNC paths I think. UNC paths are basically microsoft's generalized form of all above. I could be wrong but pretty sure that's the whole thing.

sda and sdb are not the same thing. sda and sdb are devices represented as files. I think the specific kind is block device

[junior sun]

My internet just wants to end its life rn

[steep girder]

Block devices you mount to any folder and that folder would be best analogy to drive letter. Even windows calls it mounting to drive letter. Diff is in linux you only have one root in environment at any given time. And you can mount path within it. Windows you mount for some reason to letters. The letters though have nothing outside of them.

I mean I don't think you have to mount sht in windows nowadays. Pretty sure a unc path you can just specify the volume by guid or some windowsy crap and then write the file path after it.

[junior sun]

I live in the middle of the bush without wifi 😞

I regret my message

Damn

[steep girder]

That ETA increasing to years after your download speed reached exactly 0. But the averaging still calculates like 6bytes/sec for some reason :D

Aint no connection that is actually slow enough today lmfao. You'd have to try real hard

[junior sun]

Better now

[steep girder]

Idk personally if I'm bittorrent client and my download lost all peer connections... I'd reset the averages to get 0bytes/sec immediately

The individual ul/dl for each peer same thing and is probably the root of all evil. Still if I lost connection to them, I'd stop averaging the previous download speeds and just set to 0 lol. You can't possibly be downloading w/o connection right? Maybe I'm crazy

[steep girder]

Your download was paused by steam on purpose because it was writing everything it downloaded so far back to drive I bet

[junior sun]

No i think I just was using too many thing on the internet

It worked after a restart

[steep girder]

Actually they already added separate readings for download speed and disk r/w. At one point I remember they didn't have it and everyone would ask tf is going on who didn't already know this

[junior sun]

How good are peoples internet speed usually? This is reallly good for me

Yeah

I’m paying for a pretty good

It’s for the business so it costs more. I pay 100 per month

Also I live in Australia so I have shit internet

Buuut I live in Australia

[steep girder]

6.2 I really hope it's actually M uppercase B and not Mbits. Didn't Steam update to default show Mbits per second? Either you had to change it or Steam was installed before that update

[junior sun]

So Australia=bad internet

👍

[steep girder]

6.2 I mean it's not the end of the world (but your upload speed I'd question because usually it means like sub-8Mbps)

[junior sun]

Mm

Idk

[steep girder]

6.2MBps is just under 50Mbps internet. So if that's what you're paying for in terms of download speed, you're using all of what you paid for

If it's actually 50Mbps internet, I'm guessing cable?

[junior sun]

I used to only get 2 mbps until they put in new internet towers

It’s business rates so it costs more

[short hinge]

I do 8/GBS. On a 10GBS fiber cable

[steep girder]

The real scam is 1Gbps cable internet but your upload speed is only 15

[junior sun]

Idk

Where I live the regular is like 60-80

For a 50

You can’t really get a better business plan

Anyway it’s fine for gaming

Only like 13 ping

It’s for a business

[steep girder]

Wtf do I want with that lol. If the household has like 3 people on internet, it might already at times saturate upload. So I have 1 gig blazing fast cable speed (but easily around 800Mbps peak hours because dreck)... and I'm looking at white browser page for 15 sec since my get request body isn't even fully sent to youtube. After 15 sec I can finally start downloading the page at my amazing gigabit internet

[junior sun]

BECEAUSE ITS FOR A BUINESS

Yes

I have no internet at the house

I am moving soon tho

I live on a farm in the middle of the bush

Maybe

[proud tangle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VafTlJqNi1A

[steep girder]

Bro you're a true blue fackin leegend in the bushlands of australia. Your ping is probably min 100ms to everywhere anyways

[junior sun]

Haha yeah

1 bar of 3-4 g where I live only on the kitchen windowcill

[steep girder]

Here in ontario fido lte gives me like 80mbps download. Should be most* of ontario at least. But Im missing bands in my phone model so some places it drops to like 1 bar and I get -2teraflops per lightyear

[junior sun]

Also might be Beceause I’m on a 15 yr old gaming laptop I got for free

[steep girder]

Also the ping and droppiness. You can't really game that well on this LTE usually. 5G idk.

[abstract saddle]

That moment you realize that the "renewed" laptop you bought has more processing power than your daily ROFL

[steep girder]

Bro this dell I thought was a Lenovo legion like mine for a second... looks just like it

[junior sun]

Haha it can still run games like forza 5 and far cry 6 absolutely fine tho

[abstract saddle]

@junior sun Dude I got a Dell laptop too 😂

[junior sun]

😂

[abstract saddle]

I'd post a pic but I'm a noob here

[steep girder]

Are the keys also back lit R and not RGB? Mine the keyboard only has like 2bit depth RGB control. You can have no lighting, and like 3 brightnesses of red.

[junior sun]

Same

Yeah

[abstract saddle]

@steep girder you have the cell tower chip in yours?

[steep girder]

Lol it looks like they copied lenovo or vice-versa. Either way they copied the wrong thing lmfao

[junior sun]

I think we have the same keyboard

[steep girder]

Wdym? Like a sim card?

[abstract saddle]

Yea, mine has a sim card slot

[junior sun]

Shh I have spelt it that way so many times now it auto corrects it that way

[steep girder]

Yes I have a sim card with active at least data plan on it to get LTE. If you have a device that doesn't, it probably just means it's esim

[carmine zealot]

Hello 🙂

[steep girder]

esim is basically the same sim card but stored in memory. Not physical

[abstract saddle]

Mine has a physical slot

Latitude 5490

[steep girder]

I remember I updated to iOS first version from whatever it was called before. I think iphone os or appleos or some sht. It was on an iphone 3g. Not s. Let me tell you... lag ain't even the word

[abstract saddle]

Core™ i5-8250U

I run Kubunu on it

[steep girder]

Springboard went from whatever screen refresh was to like 6.9fps. Everything started up really slow. Idk but they shouldn't have included that old model into update lmfao. But some said they did it on purpose. Because you can't downgrade anymore. So you to get rid of lag you gotta buy new iphone again $$$$$$ 🍎 $$

[steep girder]

I mean kubuntu and xubuntu are the only *buntu i'd ever install. If it's plain ubuntu, it means I'm deleting gnome and its DM to replace with again either KDE or XFCE lol

[abstract saddle]

Kubuntu is by far the best OS I've ever used, especially on a Dell

[steep girder]

Mint was funny because whichever flavor you installed, I couldn't find a way to add and delete another metapackage to go from like cinnamon to kde or some sht. Dep problem somehow. I think a base system package required one or the other but the DE metapackages conflicted eachother

Which really sucked because I wanted to replace Cinnamon with anything else as soon as I tried it 🤮

[abstract saddle]

Kubuntu has a theme manager in it that works wonderfully

You can choose from hundreds of themes

[steep girder]

It was definitely possible to install two or more DEs and DMs at once obv. The only conflicting files would be whatever files specified defaults that came with mint. Which is why I wanted to use the metapackages in the first place honestly. Which was also the only thing of use those metapackages could have done anyways

[long briar]

TBH, IOS isn't that smooth

it works yes, it's a great user friendly ui

but it's defo not made for performance

[steep girder]

Kubuntu desktop comes with KDE. I think plasma newest version still. The themes you have work on any Linux with KDE. Those themes also are made of diff components which theme a couple diff GTK versions, the window shades of kde's own dm and maybe whatever tf else plasma has

[long briar]

software or hardware

in high end phones, the hardware is pretty much the same across the board

[still olive]

Hi just downloaded solus and I want to download surfshark VPN. How can I? I looked at the surfshark website but all it has is instructions for debian and ubuntu. Should I just change oses because I haven't done any thing to it yet and can just do that while I do other things

[steep girder]

So the themes are probably usable one way or another for a big portion of them on any desktop env for the GTK stuff. The only real important exclusive thing in them for KDE is the window shades and borders I'd say

[long briar]

so it only makes sense to compare either software. Hardware only if it's midrange phones

You just listed two midrange phones, not high end

Also I hate the A54

[steep girder]

Honestly they should make a DM that uses GTK for its borders and shades. Then you can just use gtk theme for that as well?

[long briar]

What chip does X6 pro use? Some sort of Dimensity?

[graceful burrow]

What os do you have

[long briar]

I said that comparing high end is pointless they're all the same. You gave their example of two midrangers

tf is an 8300 ultra

[abstract saddle]

Kubuntu integrates with the bios a bit more than others. Like all the keyboard layout is there. If you ever flash a Chromebook it has keyboard layout in its settings and works like a charm. That's how I originally got using it, then found out how well you can customize it

[long briar]

Ik there's an 8300, never heard of an ultra variant

[steep girder]

A lot of times I actually just install GTK greeter for lightdm or whatever tf xubuntu should still come with. That way I can set Chicago95 to be the theme of login screen as well

[graceful burrow]

Of all the flavors fucking solus lmao

[long briar]

how's updates?

dunno how an oc is gonna make up the diff

[steep girder]

Oh no don't get me wrong I loved and used KDE a lot as well. It was always significantly heavier on the resources than xfce (and xfce was specifically known for being the ligher one). After plasma idk I kind of didn't like it. There's actually a fork of KDE right now that continues from last version without plasma. That's how big of a crowd it was that reacted negatively to plasma

[graceful burrow]

It's solus who knows anything about that lmao

It's not even one of the like
Tertiary uncommon ones like xubuntu

[steep girder]

But either way, both can be made to resemble windows desktop so good in my books. Gnome I hate precisely because it's the older macintosh lookin design. I mean it's what I got used to I guess. I simply never used macintosh that much all my life.

[long briar]

wait so what you're saying is

for a phone that's maybe decent for gaming

and nothing else it's cheap

you know soc speed is far from the only factor right

[steep girder]

But ye idk I'm not used to taskbar being the menu bar for focused app.

[long briar]

nah.

[abstract saddle]

@steep girder yea Gnome looks like ass tbh

[steep girder]

Some people use gnome the other way around because theyre older skool than me maybe. Once upon a time pretty much all graphical desktops were like macos. The amigas, IBMPC. That workbench with pcdos n sht. All mac-style desktop. So gnome what it looks like pretty much.

[long briar]

the fact you have to say that's a plus lmfao

[cold prism]

used s22+

[long briar]

okay so it's a decent main sensor, and two more garbage sensors

it's a plastic frame

[steep girder]

Well once upon a time, people who were already on desktop pc with some graphical env said the same thing about windows NT 4.0 and win 95. NT 4.0 was first of this current line to have start button and buttons for all windows beside it. 95 was the first 9x to have that same thing. Before that, all windows also looked like mac desktop. Even the explorer was called Finder :)

[abstract saddle]

@steep girder bruh my first computer was a 286-sx25

[long briar]

so what I've proved is that it's a decent chip in a shit phone

[abstract saddle]

My first computer didn't even have windows. Ran on DOS

[steep girder]

Honestly any de on any linux today can't not look like ass in some places eventually. You have different graphical apps available only with diff window frameworks. So like for good archiver i remember only option I found was p7zip or peazip I forget. It was only available using Qt

[abstract saddle]

My first hard drive had 8 gold platters in it and had 35mb of storage. You could put it in a pillowcase and go ham on someone lol

[steep girder]

So after adding custom repository to install it (which as always was just for that one program)... I really hated my life because before that I had exactly 0 Qt-ass programs. Now I installed the first

[abstract saddle]

I remember getting excited about upgrading from 2mb of ram to 4mb lol

Not gb mb

[still olive]

Solus Linux

[graceful burrow]

i know
lmao

[steep girder]

So themes? Well a lot of xfce themes don't support qt at all. In fact I don't think xfce even has support itself for qt inside. You have to install some other package or two that somehow gets qt to look like your gtk theme

[still olive]

So what should I get

[abstract saddle]

I'm excited for wayland

[graceful burrow]

for you, anything based on debian/ubuntu

[steep girder]

And even then it had weird different text scaling and looked blurry etc. That was the next thing I remember bashing my head trying to fix. For Qt that was 100% scale or something lol. The trick was something arse-backwards like actually enabling the scale to dpi feature not disable it. Whatever point is it sucks when you have like 3+ diff frameworks you gotta support for each "theme"

[still olive]

Thanks 😄

[abstract saddle]

Not sure if the themes are gtk at this point or their own thing. All I do is go into global themselves and find them

[steep girder]

And your DE doesn't even acknowledge one of them (so Qt in my case) and you have to set it separately in vi or emacs with that distrib. At most you can install a separate program to visually select the Qt skin separately.

[abstract saddle]

There is a difference between KDE and Kubuntu KDE

[long briar]

ok so based on what I can tell, it's your pretty standard affair of decent screen, fast processor and mediocre everything else

if you care about the camera at all, avoid

[still olive]

So should I try pop_os

[graceful burrow]

based on
kubuntu is great

[long briar]

it's not decent, is the issue

[steep girder]

Then like screensavers... there's xscreensaver and some other one I recall xubuntu came with. The two are completely separate. So you end up with two of the same exact icons labeled 'Screensaver' in your settings panel since your theme skinned both icons. You can't tell which one is which. I end up replacing the default with xscreensaver package because that's the one with real selection and you can have GLPipes on it

[still olive]

So what should I get

[abstract saddle]

I love it when people install Linux and then the "Windows" theme lol

My first Linux experience was XFCE

[long briar]

Motorola Edge 2023 is cheap now

[sick coral]

you mean emily?

[steep girder]

I had to get xscreensaver working too because it wouldn't... as always. On XFCE and I think LightDM btw be careful because last I checked there's still a pretty bad buggy behavior if you use xscreensaver. So I remember having xscreensaver freeze the dm after you move mouse. But the more serious problem I remember having was that sometimes I ended up with unlocked session coming out of glpipes

[full fossil]

[long briar]

no

[prime solstice]

i kinda want to buy the new moto razr

[manic torrent]

.... I just use the command line.

[sick coral]

ik im not meant to start a convo about this, but i really dont get transphobes. if you care that much about what other people are doing to themselves, trans people arent the issue you should be fixing

[long briar]

...?

[manic torrent]

Huh?

I use Linux and windows command lines every day.

[sick coral]

they have if you root them

[steep girder]

I mean it's just full screen GL window with pipes in it. Then it has to close when you move mouse or do anything as per usual lol. Honestly I see the real problem and it's that your screensaver should be running in your current desktop session. So the session is technically still logged in the whole time screensaver is showing. Then if you want to lock computer after screensaver, you really end up locking session and going back to DM as soon as screensaver closes.

You can't log out of session and show screensaver in DM because the whole point is DM doesn't let you see anything until you log in. You're really supposed to have a desktop env maybe at least which you can specify somehow what the screensaver window is. Then you have to make a compatible DM that has a feature to allow users to only run screensaver outside over the DM's login.

[long briar]

???

[still olive]

So should I try elementy os

[long briar]

command line is just giving your OS instructions

[manic torrent]

When I did android Dev I used it all the time

[long briar]

wait tf are you even trying to say

[steep girder]

Yes. You don't need root either. Search up termux. It has official site and also f-droid if you dont have it yet. It's an app store. Make sure you get the official one for that. Then you can download termux from there I know.

[long briar]

they're not doing calculations, they're running commands to do the shit you want it to do

[steep girder]

If you don't have root, you can't su. You can still install pretty much a full distro of linux though in a proot.

[sick coral]

linux is so fucking confusing i love it

[steep girder]

Then you can install one of the apps on google store either xserver xsdl or whatever its called. Or one of the many vnc clients. Install xorg and desktop env in your prooted linux, connect using one of those apps and boom you can use desktop distro of linux on your android phone. Try doing that on iphone lmfao

[long briar]

Android is technically Linux

no it isn't.

[still olive]

Yes have you tried ubuntu touch

[sick coral]

or you can install mobian if you have a compatible phone

[peak phoenix]

not all distros

[steep girder]

Linux kernel is actually much less confusing than windows nt one I guarantee it.

[manic torrent]

Only if you don't know shit about fuck

[still olive]

Are Linux phone distros good

[steep girder]

Windows NT kernel so confusing it seems not even microsoft knows wtf is going on in there at this point :P

[long briar]

Different APIs, runtimes, etc.

ok and?

[manic torrent]

From your extensive kernel development experience?

[steep girder]

No just from use. I've configured and compiled the linux kernel many times. Wasn't too hard. Windows idk never even compiled it once. It's closed source. I can't see what's going on inside

[sick coral]

yeah ik, debian is obviously easier than arch but you need to learn them both if you dont wanna fuck up your system, even in debian its really easy to destroy grub or something and have to to either go thru a tedious proccess to fix grub or just reinstall the entire os

[steep girder]

But I've seen the leaked code comments for windows 2000 I recall. They spoke volumes

[peak phoenix]

What about NT is confusing?

[sick coral]

i daily drove arch for a year, its still really confusing to me

[peak phoenix]

Linux is linux. Debian is less up to date than Arch but it's still Linux

[manic torrent]

I've been using Linux for over 25 years, seems fine to me 😄

[peak phoenix]

Main difference between Distro A and Distro B (say Debian and Arch) is packaging. Linux is Linux.

[steep girder]

Debian and/or Ubuntu? Or actual Linux? So like arch

[manic torrent]

Dude. I beta tested Ubuntu before it had a name.

[long briar]

Android uses .apk which is just a signed zip folder, versus types like rpm or deb, which is a similar algorithm to zip but structured very differently...
and that's just one thing when it comes to installing applications

[peak phoenix]

Windows is an evolution of NT. Same as Linux has lineage back to Unix.

The idea they should rewrite the kernel is.....bad.

[long briar]

fym

[sick coral]

yeah, if youre a veteran you would obviously know how the system works

[peak phoenix]

ok

[long briar]

wait tf we're gatekeeping what distros count as linux now?

[steep girder]

Idk but Debian and Ubuntu should be guaranteed more stable than bleeding edge arch. Their release cycle the whole point is divides into major versions slowly. Today Ubuntu or Debian technically aren't really Linux for real since they completely split right? Ubuntu and Debian just kangs or backported select features of Linux at this point pretty sure

[manic torrent]

Yeah pretty typical of people who use arch and think they are leet

[manic torrent]

No, this is absolutely garbage.

[long briar]

You're trying to say Windows NT should be overhauled, you have no say for shit.

Why not?

[steep girder]

Idk but if it was before Ubuntu was officially released... what was it? Was Debian already a thing? If so the question of whether not Ubuntu was still Linux falls back to whether or not Debian was... because Ubuntu should have been still fork of at least Debian right?

[idle nymph]

isnt android linux ?

[long briar]

yet its market share and # of users has increased?

[long briar]

it's Linux but not a distro

[abstract saddle]

Trying to figure out how to make the task bar a floating taskbar

[manic torrent]

.... It's all Linux. Debian well predates ubuntu.

[idle nymph]

wdym

[long briar]

it's linux only that it's built on Linux kernal, but almost everything is different

but this isn't true either?

Especially in the primary education space, ChromeOS has taken over in North America

People buy what works for their use case

and if their use case is just youtube and google drive, there's really no point getting worse battery life to get windows

very few, actually.

Very few even know what an operating system is, let alone the differences between em

[manic torrent]

Many people use Linux every day and have no idea. My vacuum runs Linux. I can SSH to it.

[long briar]

And when those kids grow up, they'll choose something familiar, like ChromeOS

You do realize the "tech" community is a very small minority in the grand scheme of things right

People use what works. That's it.

[manic torrent]

You do love taking your tiny microcosm of experiences and extrapolating to everyone, don't you.

Only in theory.

[long briar]

you want Macbook? Then get a Macbook. What's MacOS? I just use Macbook.

[steep girder]

Did you know that literally every single laptop I bought in my life came with some version and edition of windows already? And I paid for it one way or the other within the retail price of computer. ||Ofc whenever I nuked windows off the bat, I did have the choice of not installing windows again but I did :^)||

[long briar]

Windows... isnt that what my Dell uses?

[idle nymph]

here its mostly windows

[neon mesa]

People are ignorant but not that ignorant
Dealing with people needing tech support a lot they certainly know windows

[idle nymph]

though we have to be fr about this, my mother, my sister, like 95% of my family dont even know whats a OS

[neon mesa]

They don't know what's an OS
They just know windows is windows

[steep girder]

But jokes aside, I mean windows is still kinda hard to deal without. So like cod wz I wanted to play on my PC. I needed Windows 10 or 7. The ones in between could have run it just fine but still it had to be just one of those two. Otherwise my only option would be wine+dxvk as always. And idk about codwz running on wine or dxvk lmfao

[idle nymph]

that pretty much ddescribe it tbh

[long briar]

Upper education (post secondary) generally favour Windows for its app compatibility, but primary school and middle school especially have adopted chromebooks for its great management, ease of deployment, and price. And it's fine because everyone uses Google Drive

[steep girder]

I don't think there even was support in dxvk for even the windows 7 version features cod used.

[neon mesa]

And people know if what they're using isn't windows out of sheer familiarity with windows

[idle nymph]

yeah thats true, we just dont use any laptop until pretty late in school, so they give us actual window laptop so we also learn a bit of tech

[long briar]

Yea

[steep girder]

Nah xfce then must be even snappier than whatever kde does on your machine. Ultimately, make sure vsync and desktop composition is off. That's the true maximal snappiness mod

[idle nymph]

youd be surprised by the amount of people who cant even send an email or change any settings

[long briar]

And the way ChromeOS is expanding its functionality would mean even that would not be neccesary soon

[steep girder]

||Unless you need translucent windows then RIP||

[neon mesa]

ChromeOS is just android on a laptop form factor no better than samsung dex, change my mind

[long briar]

-EducationWorld

[idle nymph]

nope, too much hassle, why would i

[long briar]

Maybe use a decent Chromebook and it'll change your mind

[idle nymph]

hell naw

you know tech, you use it daily, the average grandma can send email at best

[neon mesa]

What?
A "decent" chromebook and a shit one both uses the same OS

[long briar]

Wildly different experiences

That's bold coming from you lmao

[idle nymph]

thats ironic

[neon mesa]

I'm talking about feature set not whether or not it works smoothly

[long briar]

Ahhh

I've just proved you wrong over and over. I listen, I respond.

[steep girder]

Right now on latest win 10 for sure you can run x in wsl and it has built in xorg server implementation by microsoft themselves. So you can run linux desktop apps on whatever tf that ugly thing windows has. Speaking of which I'm still waiting for MS to finally make the x windows to use native windows titlebars n sht.

[long briar]

Feature set even then, not having x86 limits Dex compared to Chromebooks

[neon mesa]

I daily drive windows 11 on desktop and linux mint cinnamon on laptop

[long briar]

I will say, the magic in chromeos is its enterprise management and deployment

[steep girder]

Anyone here actually know this btw? Is MS gonna ever make their window manager for wsl x use aero or msstyles whatever? Watch they make each window inside of a UWP metroass one instead

[neon mesa]

Idk linux's job is to make my low end laptop run good
Linux is linux

It just needs to do what it does regardless of the looks

[steep girder]

Yes. More often it was xfce and windows like xp through to 10

[idle nymph]

or the fact even a toddler could use it

[long briar]

All I know is that on desktop: I lose productivity because apps I use don't work or perfectly the way it does on Windows. On Laptop, I lose access to my mux so that's a nogo

[steep girder]

All of those times, it booted to grub and the nt loader was started from it lol. So linux does the dual booting when you install them side by side. Make sure to install grub after tho 💀

[neon mesa]

Not really

Well far must be an exaggeration because it's still significantly lighter than win11

[long briar]

Also I'm an Nvidia user so it's even more unfortunate

but windows works perfect for my requirements, no need to switch

I've yet to try that AMD cuda compatibility layer though

[neon mesa]

Not gonna go linux on desktop anytime soon
Though my laptop uses it out of necessity

Not a problem, my laptop got 12

[long briar]

yea it was revealed like 9 days ago

[neon mesa]

What i need is it being light on the CPU which it still is

[long briar]

Now I'm waiting for the compatibility layer for Tensor cores

after that, I'll switch to AMD

[neon mesa]

i3-1005G1
Dual core

[graceful burrow]

zluda?

[long briar]

oh and if they also become as efficient as Nvidia chips

[long briar]

yea

[graceful burrow]

zluda is nice gains but its not near cuda

[long briar]

Zluda got built for Rocm

[neon mesa]

I'm not saying that?

[long briar]

and rocm is finally not completely broke

[peak phoenix]

I mean I hate Windows (and I have code in Windows) but Windows is in use for a number of reasons

[neon mesa]

I'm saying cinnamon is not "far worse" for use

[idle nymph]

i might try linux one my laptop one day if that improve battery life, but rn im to lazy to swap

[long briar]

Ah, as expected

[neon mesa]

It works fine

[long briar]

unfortunate

[graceful burrow]

ever have to interact with something you build and go "ah damn shoulda done that one differently"

[long briar]

it doesn't

[steep girder]

Whats sad is one thing windows had going for it was that it had one gui and I guess what's equiv to WM. In windows terms, it had just one shell. Then since 8 they added apps with completely separate GUI and window shades that isn't even skinnable to this day I think (just the stupid trendy light/dark mode crap). So now I have just like on desktop linux install a bunch of apps that look different and one of them is unskinnable lol

[idle nymph]

guess i aint swapping then

[long briar]

Guess what else runs on a Pentium silver fine? Literally ANY distro.

[neon mesa]

Why should i, cinnamon works just fine

[graceful burrow]

dude discord sucks lmao

[idle nymph]

i dont care about games

[graceful burrow]

@peak phoenix this was orignally meant for you

[long briar]

😬 You can tell smooth from smooth? That's crazy

[peak phoenix]

Dark mode is well past Win8 timeframe

[neon mesa]

I'm not gonna spend time dealing with switching desktop environments just for gains that i can't feel

[idle nymph]

this is a school laptop, what i need is compatibility, which as far as i remember linux is shit at

[steep girder]

Like dafuq that right click menu on task bar. It's not even responsive to light dark setting. Just a dark phat menu with triple the line height going to top of the screen. If font smoothing is off, then it looks even worse because those menus still have it regardless.

[neon mesa]

Cinnamon on my laptop is already butter smooth

[long briar]

8 was hilarious. 8.1 is goated though imo

[neon mesa]

Thiss

[idle nymph]

more like running smooth ? it do that on window already, whats the point

[neon mesa]

It's like caring about 100fps difference in CS:GO when you're already getting 700FPS

[long briar]

Tell that to Fusion 360

Not my fucking fault Autodesk hates it

[idle nymph]

i need web browser, word, one note, several other niche app

[long briar]

Tell that to Autocad

Tell that to literally every single fucking app I have to use

[peak phoenix]

Plenty of Word alternatives exist that can read/write docx files FYI

[neon mesa]

I tried but idk word just feels better to use

[idle nymph]

the fuck is googles suite

[manic torrent]

It isn't.

[long briar]

I find all word processors to be ass

Google docs is fine for basic functionality

[peak phoenix]

Google Garbage (tm)

[idle nymph]

word is perfect for what i need, and its not available on linux

[manic torrent]

One note is a massive pain in the ass.

[idle nymph]

no i dont know

[neon mesa]

Libre is kinda shit when dealing with shapes and likes to crash
Well how i know?
It fucked my college assignment

[long briar]

wait onenote is Microsoft

[neon mesa]

Google suite, i haven't really use it extensively to know deep

[idle nymph]

yeah

[manic torrent]

I do. And you said text editing. It's a shit text editor.

[idle nymph]

no rock, i just geniunly never heard of that

[long briar]

I've used Google suite and it's fine for basic things. All of the apps are sufficient, but none of the are optimal

Formatting is so ass on almost anything but word

[neon mesa]

Google is particularly finicky when it comes to setting up document navigation

[manic torrent]

Notepad++ is a text editor. Google docs is a document editor.

[idle nymph]

you went from saying its perfect to "it do its job"

[long briar]

lmao

[peak phoenix]

So does Kate and Code...

[long briar]

I mean so does Windows notepad

[manic torrent]

So ms word is a text editor?

[idle nymph]

and so does word, whats your point

[peak phoenix]

DIsagree. Text editor vs WYSIWYG

[neon mesa]

Document editor is definitely different from trxt editors...

[steep girder]

Notepad++ for the win!!!

[long briar]

it really doesn't

[peak phoenix]

Google ANYTHING is trash, sorry

[long briar]

You're someone who has never needed to write anything on a word processor other than a school essay.

[manic torrent]

This is also a stupid take.

[long briar]

okay that's crossing a line

[peak phoenix]

"Anything you create with our suite belongs to us"

No, sorry.

[neon mesa]

Text files only contain strings and ONLY strings with no information on page size, layout, margins, etc.
No tables, no nothing, it's just text data.
While document files like docx is different
Their similarity is only the fact that they can have text

[peak phoenix]

I mean, go look up the original terms to Google docs. Wrote a book in GD? Belongs to Google.

Lol, no.

[long briar]

Their hardware devices are solid, youtube is great, gmail is good, etc.

[neon mesa]

I prefer outlook for email service

Their app is much nicer to use

[peak phoenix]

Sorry but I just view Google as evil these days. I look forward to the day the Google (and YT) are irrelevant

[manic torrent]

Therefore everything google is trash? (Assuming you're correct)

[idle nymph]

i dont care if its free i need something that will be good to use

[steep girder]

Before some point in win 10 it was I think, default notepad was unusable lmao. It literally didn't support unix line endings at all.

[long briar]

YT will never be irrelevant for as long as another revolution doesn't happen

[manic torrent]

..... Which day will that be, because what the fuck. I am not entirely against it, but that's a hilarious take.

[long briar]

Google hardware is built on data collected from its customers, and it works

[neon mesa]

Google suite works
But works =/= comfy to use

[long briar]

Pixels take the best photos for a reason

[peak phoenix]

Hoping for a monopoly to end is a hilarious take? Tell me I should give no fucks about your opinion without saying it.

[long briar]

Google Assistant is far superior to every other Virtual Assistant for a reason

[long briar]

It's not a monopoly though?

[peak phoenix]

YT more or less is

Google search engine more or less is

[steep girder]

But again, I always like to remind the irony of how DOS line endings are technically the proper way in terms of line break and return. Because LF originally just meant next line and CR is the return to beginning portion. The enter on keyboards that said ENTER and had an arrow going down and then left technically showed that it should write both chars together

[manic torrent]

You didn't say hope you said look forward. It ain't happening any time soon.

[long briar]

Not quite

Oligopoly, sure. It's not a monopoly, for all their monopolistic behaviors

[neon mesa]

I hate change?
I literally use libre and linux on my laptop despite using windows for over a decade before it.

[steep girder]

But enter was separate thing because the key was usually used as the 'select' or 'ok/accept' button

[neon mesa]

And unlike docs, libre is COMFY to use despite me never touching it

[peak phoenix]

"hope" and "look forward" here are basically synomous. If you think that's hilarious, I think your opinion can be ignored.

[steep girder]

Still the arrow down and left showed CRLF

[manic torrent]

..... If you are using a fucking line terminal, which, spoiler alert, have been obsolete for decades.

[long briar]

I don't think so

[idle nymph]

i googled it, and docs look shit to use

[manic torrent]

I mean that's not how synonyms work.

[long briar]

I hope the world blows up tomorrow
I'm looking forward to the world blowing up tomorrow

[peak phoenix]

Docs is pretty shit.

Also most governments still disallow the use of it.

[long briar]

two very different meanings

[neon mesa]

I think your standard is simply as deep as earth's core

[steep girder]

and you're likely on mainframe lmfao

[long briar]

I don't think the government should be used as justification, considering how many boneheaded decisions they make

[manic torrent]

They are not text editors.

[neon mesa]

It's a document editor....

[peak phoenix]

Hope: a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen

Look forward to: It means "to expect (something) with pleasure."

[neon mesa]

Text files are not the same as document files

Text just has string data in it

[peak phoenix]

German government comes to mind as one of MANY that banned it's use for trust reasons

[manic torrent]

I have nipples. Can you milk me?

[long briar]

I mean here in Canada we've got our minister of tech innovation or whatever banning flipper zero and hacking devices due to car theft which proves they don't know how either pieces of tech work

[steep girder]

dafuq docs sheets and slides are literally reimplemented word, excel and powerpoint in browser by google. So extra feature is def that you have additional people reading your doc/spreadsheet/presentation

[long briar]

German government I can get behind, they're a little less stupid (lot) than North American politics

[steep girder]

Just get fkn libreoffice or openoffice lol

Openoffice is probably still better than google

[peak phoenix]

notepad is a text editor (as is Nano and such)

Word, Libre and such are WYSIWYG editors. There is a difference.

[idle nymph]

im not really surprised honestly

[long briar]

Blood has iron in it, does that make a person iron man?

[peak phoenix]

Wayland doesn't...

[neon mesa]

this

no reason to torture yourself with google docs

libre is both BETTER and FOSS

[manic torrent]

So anything that can edit files is a text editor?

[neon mesa]

also i'll let bing explain why text and document is not the same since you won't listen

[peak phoenix]

You haven't used Linux then lately if you think this.

[neon mesa]

overall same point as i said but hopefully you can actually read it now

[long briar]

My favourite text editor

[neon mesa]

Just because both have texts doesn't mean it's a text editor

[idle nymph]

i guess i just aint swapping anything any time soon unless docs magically become one of the best document editor

[long briar]

ok seriously though windows notepad is actually kinda awesome

[neon mesa]

Okay... try editing a docx file with notepad

[long briar]

it's so dead simple I actually kinda like it

[neon mesa]

i mean both is text, there shouldn't be problems right

[manic torrent]

You made up shit and are not getting angry that the world doesn't match the shit you made up.

[peak phoenix]

you REALLY CLEARLY don't know much about Linux

[long briar]

why do we have to school ur ass?

[steep girder]

They are Rich Text editors generally. WYSIWYG is term used for probably at least rich text of some sort but you see it displayed real time. You can edit some rich text markups with plaintext editor really easily. In fact, sometimes it's even easier than WYSIWYG. ||That fkn thing you always make sure to have at least one unformatted line with just a break because having cursor on bold text will make your next line same formatting||

[manic torrent]

Most here don't.

[idle nymph]

youre getting schooled by half the chat rn, even bing is disagreeing, dont you think its time to realise you might be wrong ?

[long briar]

My issue with Linux again: Desktop apps I use regularly don't work, and I gain nothing by switching.
I lose access to my MUX switch in my laptop which is an automatic nogo

[neon mesa]

Document files aren't plain text data

[graceful burrow]

he never will, it's in his creed or something to never admit to being wrong
they just dig dig dig

[peak phoenix]

docx isn't a text file.

Same as CSV vs xlsx

[steep girder]

And btw rich text formats are usually markup "languages" meaning that the language indicates some sort of opening and closing of elements in a tree or at least sequence

[peak phoenix]

Then don't talk about it like you do.

[neon mesa]

Yes i know
but both has text and according to bionic logic they're the same

[idle nymph]

honestly i dont think anyone really know linux unless they use it

https://tenor.com/view/who-let-bro-cook-who-who-let-bro-cook-dont-let-him-cook-again-gif-13506486571730006439

[long briar]

... no you're just trying to backtrack and covering up ur ass

[steep girder]

So like bbcode is one that a lot of bulletin boards for website still use. [b]Bold text[/b]. There are wysiwyg editors and plaintext ones for bbcode richtext

[long briar]

you're not right here. You weren't even technically right

[idle nymph]

hes getting to the center of the earth if he keep digging

[steep girder]

Honestly just use firefox element inspector for wysiwyg or notepad to edit as plaintext. Then save as .html file and view with browser. Boom microsoft word but tbh formatting is even better

[peak phoenix]

That is REALLY stretching things. I don't think even bionic meant this.

[neon mesa]

Of course

[long briar]

wait ngl I've never touched paint 3d

[neon mesa]

paint 3d is pretty decent

[peak phoenix]

paint.exe > paint 3d

[long briar]

What does it do

[steep girder]

mspaint.exe*

[neon mesa]

it's paint + simplified blender

[peak phoenix]

it's the replacement for paint

[long briar]

Ahhh

ok so half useless. Got it

[peak phoenix]

it's an app from the app store too so different updating system

[neon mesa]

you can make pretty decent models on paint 3d though
of course blender is better but that's the same thing as paint vs photoshop for 2d

[peak phoenix]

Because KDE rocks.

[long briar]

okay fuck you I'm a photographer and I'm pissed off at this

What kind of photo processing can you do there

if it's anything like ms paint, literally nothing

[neon mesa]

Zero

[steep girder]

Mspaint up until and including 7 at least was just starting to finally support opening and closing png file pretty sure at least 24 bit lmao

[manic torrent]

No, you're not. "Text editor" has a specific meaning and isn't helpful at all.

[peak phoenix]

Linux is user choice. KDE, Gnome, XFCE....etc.

Pick the UI you like, be happy.

[steep girder]

Today I think paint finally can do alpha but not sure

[neon mesa]

you cannot do anything that resemble picture processing on paint

other than draw with brushes

[peak phoenix]

IIRC mspaint existed through versions of 10

[long briar]

but you can't

[neon mesa]

No layer system, not even simple hue, sat, brightness modification

[long briar]

that's the fun part

[neon mesa]

no masking

[manic torrent]

Windows is very complicated, but people have spent literally millions of dollars and thousands of hours to hide it from you.

[peak phoenix]

nah, Chrome will still eat RAM regardless. Stop using Chrome.

[steep girder]

Right. I mean for even just pixel raster image editor, minimally should have layers? Definitely alpha channel both in editor per layer and import/export bitmap formats

[neon mesa]

Just because two of something can open the same format file does not mean they are the same thing

[peak phoenix]

Brave = Chromium

[long briar]

This is GIMP. I don't have Krita right now but this is what a photo processor should look like

wait I don't even have darktable rn watdahel

[neon mesa]

This is like calling a cessna with homemade firework a fighter jet

[steep girder]

But then again, layers means that you gotta save to some special format to keep all the information of your work in progress project

[peak phoenix]

Windows is billions of lines of code. Maybe trillions?

Probably trillions.

[graceful burrow]

id def lean towards trillions

[steep girder]

So .psd for photoshop, .pdn for paint.net and .xwhatever for gimp

[lilac bear]

CHROMIUM is an open source project

[steep girder]

Gimp btw fck gimp

[peak phoenix]

It's still Chromium...

[neon mesa]

"only" 60-100m lines estimated

[manic torrent]

Because what sits in front of you is the culmination of literally decades upon decades of electronics engineering, operating system engineering and software engineering. It requires tens of thousands of people over many many years.

[peak phoenix]

ok, I have....

[long briar]

Chrome is just Chromium but googlfied. if you compile ur own Chromium you can have it launch even faster. Isn't that your goal consider you run a pentium and KDE?

[peak phoenix]

Eh....it's a lot.

More than you'll ever know

[steep girder]

Actually one of the things I struggle with in linux to this day... GIMP. Unless you get paint.net running in wine + .net or some sht

[manic torrent]

.... It's not rocket surgery.

[long briar]

it can be

[steep girder]

Im pretty sure that's exactly what I did too. Paint.net runs in wine decently as far as I remember

[neon mesa]

If you read one line every second it will take you 4 years straight roughly

[long briar]

but why not go all the way?

[neon mesa]

to read every single line of code in windows

[long briar]

you were arguing against cinnamon because KDE is marginally faster

[peak phoenix]

default Chromium still has their plugins. True ungoogled chrome is really missing a lot of "default" chrome features.

[manic torrent]

"in windows" is a bit vague though

[neon mesa]

11

[peak phoenix]

ok then

[steep girder]

Isn't cinnamon discontinued at this point?

[neon mesa]

Though windows 11 is like a python code with a thousand unused classes
There's sooo many unused elements in it, usually old shit
like Why is windows 7 flyout shell element still in windows 11?

[long briar]

Ever consider tiny10 or tiny11 and running chromium?

[graceful burrow]

is your pc still a half-disassembled ancient laptop

[manic torrent]

.... No that's not what I mean. I mean the core components, drivers, interface components, various apps, edge and supporting stuff, blah blah blah etc.

[peak phoenix]

Again...I don't think people grasp the complexity of an OS in terms of code. But OK.

[long briar]

wait. So what are you running?

[steep girder]

Idk but honestly it was developed specifically for linux mint wasn't it? Linux mint is kinda dead now itself... at least to me... and many other ex-users alike

[manic torrent]

Yep. Full ewaste spec

[graceful burrow]

tfw my phone faster

[lilac bear]

an OS to begin with is already a feat of humankind

[long briar]

You're running a pentium. That thing draws like 5w max or something. If battery sucks it's literally because your laptop is shit lmfao

[steep girder]

Mint was awesome for a while because they resisted the switch to snapd for a while. Then they gave in. Everybody left because that was last thing keeping them there usually

[manic torrent]

Loc is not a hugely useful metric anyway.

[peak phoenix]

Windows is 25 years of code. More really.

[neon mesa]

Do they still keep Pre-NT components?

[lilac bear]

considering none of it is rewritten /j

[long briar]

My windows laptop draws 5w at idle

[peak phoenix]

Not really. I can write a VERY long single line of code....or I can write the same functionality on 15 lines.

[long briar]

Too bad it drew the same running Ubuntu

[manic torrent]

Not really no, but there are very old compatibility layers.

[peak phoenix]

Most pre-NT stuff is gone

[long briar]

actually it was even worse on Ubuntu as soon as I loaded anything because I couldn't disable dgpu

[graceful burrow]

it's always fun seeing bss grasp at straws when everyone against chat is at him lmao

[neon mesa]

My PC idle at 100w

[lilac bear]

and?

[manic torrent]

.... Or you write better code and it uses less lines.

[long briar]

how the shit

[steep girder]

Well as far as windows goes, correct. All that remains is NT based.

[long briar]

wait I can check smth rq

[lilac bear]

bro on that overclock game

[neon mesa]

35w on the 5700x3D
another 35 on the 3080ti
the rest is RGB shit and RAM prolly

[steep girder]

Linux I mean is pre-nt no? So you have that :)

[long briar]

lmfao

[lilac bear]

is it better code if it does the same thing

[peak phoenix]

Tell me you don't write code without telling me.

Hot take but....you can be verbose and easy to read or you can write a single, efficient line of code that is a PITA to understand.

[manic torrent]

Useless comparison

[long briar]

I'm still surprised you're hitting 30w on everything else

[lilac bear]

Bob is just someone practicing their debating skills in LTT chat

like an AI feeding on training data

[manic torrent]

... Lol what the fuck? No. Well designed code can be shorter and better. I have literally been writing code professionally for decades.

[peak phoenix]

A compiler can SOMETIMES bring the code down to the same ASM...but sometimes not.

LOC is an awful metric. I worked on the component of Windows with the single largest CPP file....but it was simply because of verbosity.

[long briar]

I'd love to see chatgpt trained on ltt chat

it's gonna be endless flaming and shit takes lmfao

[neon mesa]

Smaller line of code definitely does not mean more efficient code, leetcode taught me that kek

[lilac bear]

TRUE

[peak phoenix]

MS frowns on ternary operations for example. Great way to grow LOC.

[lilac bear]

isn't Grok AI kinda like that

[steep girder]

Well as far as kernel designs go, 9x was monolithic and so is Linux to this day right? NT's is hybrid and also hasn't changed that since the beginning. Honestly yeah I'm not too savvy on this but that's a pretty fundamental aspect as far as I know

[lilac bear]

imagine not supporting China (+50 social credit)

[neon mesa]

I can't wait for this to be public

[peak phoenix]

Microsoft didn't like this

[neon mesa]

Bing and ChatGPT is just endless "As an AI language model" even when your request has nothing bad in it

[long briar]

Yea, you fuck.

[manic torrent]

Yeah that's not the shit I'm talking about, I'm talking about stuff like being able to combine multiple methods into one because they do the same shit.

[peak phoenix]

eiifccvjlbdkievghvdgrvjvrtljicfjecttfuruicjr

[manic torrent]

Irrelevant

[lilac bear]

I love how its programmed to roast the user as much as it can

[peak phoenix]

OK...sure. Common methods. Still not something that is an overall LOC measure.

[long briar]

Nvidia is as good of an option as AMD.

[lilac bear]

don't tell people what to do

[peak phoenix]

Again, I can write a single line of code (Java is a great example here) that does A LOT of I can write 25 lines that do the same thing and are readable

[manic torrent]

..... I've rearchitected plenty of code and significantly reduced LoC, and increased readability by using better design patterns

[graceful burrow]

im no longer implying
you outwardly ignore people's opinions and try to force yours on them
you've been muted on it, this is a proven fact

[lilac bear]

fact checked by true republicans

[peak phoenix]

If you measure codw quality by lines of code, you're a bean counter and belong in a Dilbert comic.

[manic torrent]

Ok Ben Shapiro

[long briar]

3.5:

Widely used in the corporate world and among general consumers due to its user-friendly interface and extensive software compatibility.
Offers a seamless experience for those accustomed to mainstream applications and games.

Linux:
Renowned for its robust security features and open-source nature, allowing for greater customization and transparency.
Ideal for tech-savvy users and businesses seeking heightened control over their systems without being constrained by proprietary software limitations.

In considering their respective merits, it's essential to adopt a pragmatic approach based on specific requirements rather than ideological allegiance. Ultimately, the choice between Windows and Linux hinges on factors such as usability, security needs, and compatibility with existing infrastructure.```

[graceful burrow]

see
this is why you were muted

[peak phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-gif-5958854468941694453

[manic torrent]

.... We are not talking about the same thing

[lilac bear]

if I write everything in an extremely long line then its good code

[peak phoenix]

No. I'm talking about shipping versions of WIndows.

[graceful burrow]

hi random

[lilac bear]

definitely not that

[long briar]

Yea this is why we say you push opinions away...

[jagged dune]

Been lurking for ages, Ur the one in the wrong honestly and it's hilarious

[lilac bear]

yeah I can see why you were muted

[neon mesa]

Well considering you often make takes that the whole chat instantly disagree on i can see why

[long briar]

wait is any mod actually still awake?

[steep girder]

Compat mode for those idk. But that's actually an interesting point. I remember whenever compat mode actually ended up fixing something (mostly as soon as I started using Vista and up those problems began), often times the only fix was to set to 9x compat. It fixed like san andreas video intros sometimes but more importantly the keyboard and mouse not working properly. Actually I think it was setting to 98. 95 made the mouse not work at all. Some sht like that

[mint yacht]

Because they pay attention when someone's breaking rules

[long briar]

OH SHIT

HI RANDOM

[manic torrent]

Lol, ok dude. I guess there's no way to make code better and shorter

[graceful burrow]

its every time they're in chat

[long briar]

it's actually a skill

[graceful burrow]

i dont understand how people can be allowed when all they do is ruin chat
consistently
every time

it is really fuckin impressive lol

[peak phoenix]

That isn't what you initially said. You billed lines of code as a valid metric.

[lilac bear]

look at a mirror

[manic torrent]

Please re read what I said

[long briar]

random can we just get this guy out

[graceful burrow]

for real
this isnt fun

[peak phoenix]

you referenced LoC.

[long briar]

Gumball got banned, BSS is worse than gumabll

[tepid jasper]

👍

[graceful burrow]

he's just bringing chat quality down several notches

[peak phoenix]

loc is a shit metric and I'm sorry you give a fuck about it

[lilac bear]

ban BSS

[long briar]

BAHAHAHAHHAA

[tepid jasper]

i still have an aneurysm from the machine learning desktop replacement recommendation conversation

[peak phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-4095597578532971838

[manic torrent]

.... As a valid metric? Where.

[neon mesa]

what fr?

[long briar]

Yea

[idle nymph]

are you per chance gumball alt ?

[long briar]

nah

[tepid jasper]

nah

[long briar]

Gumball actually had half a braincell

[manic torrent]

No he is a different kind

[peak phoenix]

Ok, I misread. My bad.

[tepid jasper]

ok i don't know about that one

some of their takes were....

[long briar]

some is already more than none!

[idle nymph]

what kind then ?

[tepid jasper]

actually i've never seen them with a good take

[manic torrent]

A very special snowflake

[idle nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/liar-pinocchio-lie-long-nose-not-telling-the-truth-gif-17524233

[tepid jasper]

now that i think about it, every take from gumball was straight up dogshit

[long briar]

He didn't piss off half the server at once

[tepid jasper]

true

[long briar]

THANK YOU

[lilac bear]

holy crap he is gone

[tepid jasper]

no i know how bad bionic is, i still have permament brain damage from that conversation

[steep girder]

The real thing is that to this day win nt kernel 64 bit versions go into x64 mode after starting up. The 32 bit versions don't. But problem is apparently when youre on intel in x64 mode, it prevents you from using support for x16 addressing or some sht. So basically i686 or any 32bit intels would still support natively 16bit applications pretty sure. And apparently even modern x86_64 bit procs (even threadripper) might still support this...

[tepid jasper]

you were there too

[peak phoenix]

16 bit code is gone from Windows

[manic torrent]

No, 16 bit is all gone.

[steep girder]

but if you want 64 bit addressing, theres some instruction you run to 'start' x64 mode. But then you can't use the x16 sht anymore

[peak phoenix]

16 bit support in 64bit CPUs isn'tgone

[neon mesa]

I wonder if i can mod the 3080ti to 24GB?
making it basically a 3090

[tepid jasper]

wait

[peak phoenix]

you can reference any register by at least 16 bit chunks

[tepid jasper]

@long briar i think they've been yeeted

[long briar]

Yes

[tepid jasper]

can someone mod the 3090 to have 44gb of vram already :3

god i would actually pay good money for that

i can't imagine it would be cheap but it would be way cheaper than an a6000

[long briar]

It's more complicated than just soldering 2gb chips, but people have gotten 20gb to work

[steep girder]

Actually no. If you can still get your hands on a 32bit install of windows 10, there's an additional optional feature. Tbh I think you can see it in x64 win10 but it doesn't work whether or not you install. You can legit run 16bit applications on win10 32bit. I'm not sure how native or virtualized it is but...

[long briar]

You can, but not at the same time

[lilac bear]

it's very difficult but yes you can swap out the RAM modules

[tepid jasper]

yeah the most recent cards i've seen with vram mods would be the 3060 mobile and the 3080

[long briar]

there's no 4gb GDDR6 chips

[tepid jasper]

but i might've missed something

[tepid jasper]

ah

[steep girder]

Even 32bit and 64bit intels though I think require you to reserve memory for the 16bit address space regardless.

[peak phoenix]

16 bit native support was ripped out of 64 bit. So yes, there was a 16 bit support optional feature. It is no longer supported.

[neon mesa]

So can i just buy some matching GDDR6X modules and bring it to a micro soldering expert?

[peak phoenix]

16 bit API calls are toast

[long briar]

you can run GDDR6 at half 16 bit rather than 32bit (I forgot what the multiplication thingy is actually) but then you'd need... 24 memory chips which boards physically don't have space for

[manic torrent]

I mean, is it possible? Yes. Is it worth it? No

[neon mesa]

It'll be nice to be able to fit giant datasets for training

[peak phoenix]

AMD64 still lets you make 16 bit calls to registers (rax -> eax -> ax)

[lilac bear]

all I know is that its been before

[manic torrent]

Yes but you can just buy a 3090

[neon mesa]

and also it will help VR performance on high res

[neon mesa]

I already have a 3080ti

[tepid jasper]

wait hold up, doesn't the 3090 have 24 memory chips though?

[long briar]

no, 12.

[tepid jasper]

12 front, 12 rear, no?

[neon mesa]

And 3090 is at least 200 more

[manic torrent]

Yes, and you can buy a 3090 as is, right now. Very little risk.

[neon mesa]

More expensive

[manic torrent]

Nope

The most likely outcome is that you won't have a video card to use at all.

[neon mesa]

used 3090s have dried on my area so i can't even get them below 700

[lilac bear]

it was huge news when someone even managed to do a successful transplant

[neon mesa]

at 700 i might as well shell out a bit more for a 4070ti Super

[long briar]

wait no I think you're right

[tepid jasper]

yeah i think the 3090ti might've had 12 x 2gb though

[long briar]

I actually don't remember, all I remember was I was having backside hotspots that were at 100

[steep girder]

Right but you're missing my point. They can't really use the native support in 64 bit nt when it's operating in 64bit addressing mode. Then there's a story about win nt 3.5 or 4 which actually had an incomplete version of ntvdm that emulated 16bit support. Today on github there is a loader project that you can install into your 64bit win10 and trick windows into using it to load 16bit win applications somehow using something named after ntvdm. But you have to find a working copy of it separately because it's illegal technically. Contains microsoft proprietary sht plus a bunch of hacks afterward to get it running

[tepid jasper]

yep sounds about right

[manic torrent]

Yes because it's fucking stupid

[long briar]

It's not my fault Asus TUF backplate has a corner that's not anchored in any way shape or form

[tepid jasper]

LMAO

about to get one of those tomorrow, might toss gelid extreme on it

[peak phoenix]

You can compile any program you like in 16 bit mode. The issue is NT having the 16 bit API calls for you. Literally 16 bit DLLs are ripped out of WIndows and no published to WU for later Windows versions. That's the issue.

[long briar]

wait so it's 24 chips on 16 bit channels

interesting

I never actually paid attention.

so theoretically you could mod a 3090 to have 48gb, though it's also kinda pointless

[peak phoenix]

god knows MSFT doesn't need to be forced to support 16 bit software from >30 years ago.

[steep girder]

Well honestly if you consider how nice it is that you could install 32bit winnt on 64 bit machine and it ran just fine. That's actually a blessing. It's specifically due to the fact that amd64 needs instruction to turn on x64 first. 32bit windows works just fine without any modification since the difference regarding this is it simply doesn't use the feature

[tepid jasper]

cheaper a6000

[peak phoenix]

If you're using 16 bit software, enjoy a VM

[lilac bear]

you sure about that

[long briar]

Does GDDR6x just not have 2gb chips at the time?

[tepid jasper]

no idea, either that or expensive or something

[steep girder]

x16 to x32 switch was done backwards right? So x16 os wouldn't work on 32bit?

[long briar]

wait what the shit

[peak phoenix]

You know how much effort goes into supporting EVERY configuration of Windows? Hell, you ship a bug in a version of Windows as part of an API it's not a bug anymore, it's a feature you support.

[long briar]

I'm actually so confused right now

[peak phoenix]

Some of my code shipped that wasn't supposed to and it took me 5 years of clawing and fighting to remove the damn code from Windows.

[tepid jasper]

HAHAHAHAH

[peak phoenix]

No. 16 bit code works on a 32 bit CPU just fine.

[long briar]

4070 super has 6 packages of 2gb GDDR6x connected at 32 bit each, RTX6000 Ada is 24 packages of 2gb GDDR6

[peak phoenix]

16 bit calls on a 32 bit OS worked fine since they link to the 16 bit DLLs

[steep girder]

No but does the os boot? On 32bit windows yeah. They had same thing as rn for 32bit support. It was windows on windows 32

[long briar]

actually nvm it makes more sense now

[steep girder]

So same thing but wow32 folder and it contained copies of 16 bit binaries

[long briar]

6x isn't jedec, and probably doesn't meet error requirements for workstation cards

[peak phoenix]

A 16 bit OS can boot on a 32 bit or 64 bit CPU fine (so long as the board can read the bootloader anyway)

A 16 bit register has always been AX. 32 bit was EAX. The naming and addresses didn't change.

AX, BX, CX, DX. EAX, EBX, ECX, EDX 32 bit. RAX, RBX, RCX, RDX 64bit

You can also reference the upper and lower 32bit of RAX. Upper and lower 16 bit of EAX.

If all you need is 8 bits of a register, use that. Compilers handle this for you.

Anyone gaming a compiler today is either WAY smarter than the compiler or just wasting time. People who argue i++ vs ++i are wasting their time.

[steep girder]

Right so the bootloader has to be 32bit unless you can specify beforehand 16bits?

[peak phoenix]

I don't know that EFI can handle 16 bit? Beyond my knowledge. Legacy mode will handle 16 bit stuff fine.

[steep girder]

But idk I don't recall any settings in bios or something back in 32bit days that said anything about boot option x16 or x32. That's the way it would have to be done right? Or I'm understanding it wrong? Did any boards with 32bit intel actually read 16bit bootloader and do it on their own?

[peak phoenix]

There never was. It didnt' matter.

All CPUs today can handle 16 bit to 64 bit code. Or 8 bit.

The instruction set has never removed those instructions...only added

[steep girder]

Because if not, that's the whole thing. In x64, you're still initially 32bit booting. Then the bootloader itself or at any point afterwards you can begin 64bit addressing etc. At least BIOS boot. EFI honestly I haven't even tried 32bit windows on it lmfao. This is all ofc pretty theoretical usually because like win 2000 on phenom x6 or whatever just BSODED before even starting installation lol. Didn't have important drivers I think. I didn't even bother looking for them.

[old yacht]

3080ti gang rise up

[neon mesa]

Best Ampere card

[peak phoenix]

Sold mine because I was tired of Linux support 😆

[steep girder]

But in theory it should have run with regards to the 32 on 64 thing just like xp did. Tbh there were xp drivers I know because I used it... could have tried those in retrospect. I heard some 2000 drivers worked in xp fine. Backwards not so much but idk could have been worth a shot. Or maybe there were some hacked drivers out there lol.

[peak phoenix]

Windows handles 32 on 64 by shipping both 32 bit and 64 bit DLLs. That's it.

[steep girder]

Who tf would run 2000 even back then though. 2011 nobody in their right mind would. Though it was supported for the longest time. We had just one pc with library catalogue running win 2000 while everywhere else xp. Insanely easy to get admin. I think I did it once. It also had a giant piece of paper taped to it saying do not use lol

[steep girder]

Right but 32bit windows boots up on 64bit without any change whatsoever. My point is it boots on 64bit machines just like 32 at least in legacy bios mode. So you ideally can run what was compiled 100% for 32bit intel on 64bit machines right away. So x86_64 came out but a lot of them still installed the same xp 32 disc they had before those procs even came out.

[peak phoenix]

32 bit Windows boots in EFI mode.

You can run 8bit code on a 64 bit CPU.

But there is a difference between 8bit compiled code and linking to 8bit DLLs you expect to be present

The lack of 16 bit support in Windows comes down to 16 bit DLLs not being shipped.

[steep girder]

Then they made two more editions of xp called x64 and 64bit which ran only on either itanium 64bit or amd's 64bit. To this day, itanium will not run anywhere unless you have a system within that few years gap intel was still competing with amd for 64bit standard. AMD won ultimately. After XP 64 bit there was not a single other itanium 64 version lmao.

[peak phoenix]

Itanium failed and died. It never had a chance and Intel cross licenses AMD64 in exchange for licensing x86 stuff to AMD

AMD and Intel essentially ended in a stalemate that left both able to do whatever. No clue where VIA landed in this with their x86 license.

Patents FTW!

[steep girder]

Well if that were the case you'd be able to select ntvdm optional feature on x64 win 10 and copy some dlls that were shipped with 32bit version. It won't run though

Because ntvdm the public version even on 10 I think still relies on actual hardware instructions. Those are only avail in legacy mode. When you're booted to any win nt x64 you're already in long mode

[peak phoenix]

MSFT has stopped supporting 16 bit. It's not simple. Support for 16 bit was actively removed.

[peak phoenix]

The hardware instructions have always been there. They always will be there. They are inherent to x86

[steep girder]

And also I'm reading right now you can't even switch back without hard reboot either. Lol so not even microsoft could do it in the kernel somehow if they wanted to. If they did, tbh it would be no better than a hard reset because wtf is all this stuff loaded into memory already? It has doubly long addresses for some reason. Then tbh the memory itself will be cut off at like 4-ish GB because you can't address more than that with 32bits

So you can't switch back out of long mode after you entered it on amd64 procs. If you did, it wouldn't make sense unless you like ensured that everything you need to keep is within wherever the memory will be addressible still in 32bit mode. You also have to make sure none of it is exclusively runnable with 64bits because... well.. you're about to not do that. After that, the NT kernel would be able to actually start your 16 bit dos or win application in the most native way possible. After you're done with it, you gotta undo everything if you want 64 bit to run again or have >4GB usable memory

And another thing it would mean is you couldn't be running 64bit program and 16 at once. At this point might as well just nuke it because the whole point of user side of modern os is to run things on your machine separately and today everyone would expect concurrently. DOS didn't do that I think. DOS actually loaded and ran legit one program that could use the rest of the memory left over after the residual stuff DOS itself kept. Then after the program exited, you were back to running OS.

[lilac bear]

bro stopped replying

[steep girder]

tl;dr windows 64 can't run 16 bit applications natively not because it doesn't choose to ship the binaries to support it. It's because even those binaries won't run. Only way is to emulate it like dosbox does

[graceful burrow]

you should do that more

people might want to stick around for a convo more

[peak phoenix]

It's because support was removed from the kernel. I don't know what else to tell you

[steep girder]

Well I mean it's sad if you're trying to install one of those 32 bit games that came out for xp even. Some of them had 16bit win application for installer only. The actual game runs fine still

[peak phoenix]

I can only say the same thing so many times.

[peak phoenix]

16 bit installers worked longer than 16 bit applications, FYI

MSFT need not be held down to supporting ancient code forever.

Linux removed 16 bit support before MSFT did. Linux has removed most 32 bit support too.

Old 16 bit programs work fine under either emulation or VMs so it's a non-issue at the end of the day.

[steep girder]

DosBOX can run 16bit dos applications. But not that q2 installer because it's 16bit win application. Maybe you can do it with wfw 3.1 installed inside dosbox or some sht idk

[steep girder]

But no actually I think the other thing is that if your vmware or virtualbox is running on 64 bit os, it actually breaks 16bit as well where it would normally run. That's another thing im reading rn

I didnt consider it but makes perfect sense. Idk theres your proof that you can test. If your 32bit win xp runs a 16 bit application on metal but for some reason breaks on virtual machine running on 64 bit host, that's THE demonstration of what i've been going on about lol

[full fossil]

is it possible to use a soundblaster 16 in windows and use it for midi playback

I wanna hear a different midi synth and I cant change it

[steep girder]

The thing is program for like 8086 you can just emulate entirely and still have the issue being that it runs too fast without locking cycles lmao

[steep girder]

You need vlc + soundfont file containing whichever bank sounds best for you

[full fossil]

oo ok I see

[steep girder]

Search windows general midi sf2 soundfont or some sht on google. Then you just gotta set it in vlc's options

[full fossil]

ok sounds fun I'll give it a shot

[steep girder]

I used to love playing OSRS midi songs on yamaha cvp208 and how it sounded with their xg bank. Even better when I swapped instruments out with their natural voices lol. It was like instant re-master soundtrack

[full fossil]

ayy nice it worked thanks.

[cursive kelp]

Just got a message from Google One's dark web report that my email and username has been found via linustechtips.com 👀 Anyone else getting this?

[scenic haven]

ltt.com is a pretty hardcore place

[cursive kelp]

Haven't been there in years, so no clue how it is 😂

[scenic haven]

me neither lol

[thorn hamlet]

hi

[scenic haven]

wsg

[sharp haven]

Is the samsung galaxy z fold4 a good phone to buy? If not what is?

[summer folio]

Windows 2000 so fast.

I knew my cd-key without even looking, used to reinstall daily.

[brisk oak]

guys? i have a question is this build good paired with a used gpu like a 1060 or 2070 for fortnite performance mode which does only support singlecore so i took the i3 13gen over a ryzen 5 5xxx because it provides better single core performance

[scenic haven]

its a good phone yeah

[brisk oak]

1x Intel® Core™ i3-13100F, Prozessor
€ 119,90
1x be quiet! Pure Rock Slim 2, CPU-Kühler
€ 25,89
1x ASRock H610M-HVS/M.2 R2.0, Mainboard
€ 78,90
1x G.Skill DIMM 16 GB DDR4-3200 (2x 8 GB) Dual-Kit, Arbeitsspeicher
€ 35,29 1x Aerocool Cylon Mini, Tower-Gehäuse
€ 37,99 1x be quiet! System Power 10 450W, PC-Netzteil
€ 45,99

[scenic haven]

best folding phone personally is either the pixel fold or the oneplus fold

[brisk oak]

it wont let me add pictures

[brisk oak]

does anybody approve or has any recoms?

[scenic haven]

if fortnite can run on a switch it can run of a 2070

imo get a 1080

[brisk oak]

bro not bout that im trying to find the best budget cpu

bc performance mode on fortnite only supports singlecore

and i js dk if the i3 is the rigth choice for me

[scenic haven]

an i5 12th would do you fine

[brisk oak]

budget

[scenic haven]

i mean its cheap here

wait your euro

[brisk oak]

oh wait

[scenic haven]

nvm

[brisk oak]

lemme configure a pc with it ty btw

[scenic haven]

alg

[brisk oak]

sry, it dropped 40 euros in a few weeks

so i thought its still 210 euros

[summer folio]

But the screen is plastic

scratches with a finger nail

Get a Pixel & install GrapheneOS

[summer folio]

GrapheneOS support tho

Like Android, but less backdoory

less spyware

[native cloud]

And more based

[summer folio]

DivestOS then?

[dreamy thorn]

Normal idle temps? On a 5700x3d

[spare pagoda]

hi i need help
is there a video of LTT that tests the 4090 and that compares the FPS and temp in different games

[summer folio]

Usually 16 characters password has been enough to keep cops out of your phone in Sweden(they are allowed to force use your fingerprints & face to unlock your phone)

[spare pagoda]

lmao

[summer folio]

But nowadays Swedish cops are allowed to install backdoors in software, so not as comfort with stock android anylonger

[neon bloom]

😮

[dreamy thorn]

What

[neon bloom]

wrong emote i just realized

[summer folio]

Some really great memes.

One time the cops knocked on all my windows & said it's the cops open up

I quickly encrypted all my devices I had procrastinated doing before lmao

It was not me they were after, but allegedly my friend had excetuted his brother with an axe & was typing with me on messenger while doing it

wan show

[spare pagoda]

nah