public-chat

[full fossil]

I'd imagine that marketing came up with it back in the day to guilt trip customers into tipping their employees to keep prices lower than competitors by guilt tripping you into paying their employees which essentially just results in you paying the same as the competition except the face value is lower which attracts more customers.

[warm dust]

I was hoping you'd say something that had a Cummins engine... and gen if show you this thing I saw today

[graceful mortar]

My statements everybody that asks is if you're think you want to move to Alaska live in Anchorage and you can visit Fairbanks for the 'real Alaska' whenever you want.

This stops you from having to live in the 'real Alaska' which sucks.

[bold brook]

heh, smart cars

[warm dust]

Old citroen is based though

[graceful mortar]

Yes yes yes.

[bold brook]

there's a guy who lives in my building who has this INSANELY COOL car that i have never seen anywhere else before, parked downstairs right now, lemme pull up the picture and see what it's called, brb

[full fossil]

We have those everywhere in the UK, I believe that there are versions of those cars for disabled people and that's what seems to be popular in the UK

[warm dust]

Look at the decal lol

[desert ivy]

I'm not saying that their job isn't important. But it isn't more important than any American paying taxes. Supply is vital for military success. But it's like a cop on a small town, or on any administrative job. It's not anything to be praised for. Like if you work at the most dangerous military base and have been shot at, I'd get it, but other than that?

[full fossil]

You don't think about these people until you need them. Having a professional army can be vital in war.

[vapid smelt]

nah they can walk on foot they dont need tanks or ifvs

[graceful mortar]

"but it isn't more important than any American paying taxes" what bro??

You literally train to weaponize your body. That training has long-term possibly debilitating consequences.

[graceful mortar]

Or rucks because supply didn't sign them out...

[desert ivy]

I don't get that comment. Do Army Janitors deserve to be equally praised as people that risk their life to protect their country in combat?

[vapid smelt]

who needs chefs

[graceful mortar]

Yes because it's all part of a system.

When your unit deploys you still get a combat patch even if you never leave the base. Because being at the base you were supporting the mission directly.

It doesn't matter your MOS at least in the army the saying goes soldier is your primary mission MOS is secondary.

[full fossil]

People like Lome aren't going to care about the Army until his country is threatened and the only line of defence is the army.

[tepid stirrup]

Hello

[graceful mortar]

Lome, you do understand that regardless of your MOS you're still required to successfully complete basic combat training right?

[full fossil]

Without logistics most if not all missions would be impossible. Everyone plays a vital role.

[graceful mortar]

Right I'm feeling like LOME thinks you can just be like nah fam I'm good I'm going to go home. And like quit....

[pine fog]

Yo
Hows 🍞 goin

[vapid smelt]

or cyber security trainers so we dont leak info on war thunder forums or plug in cool new flash drives from the ground

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9gpEOw4J3E or use free smart watches ,,,

[elder thorn]

Yo

[desert ivy]

Yeah, that makes the avg job at the army a bit cooler. But still, it is unfair that the PTSD soldier that's 1/100 gets the same treatment as the person that just goes there to cook.

[graceful mortar]

Like

I'll get you to the battlefield and as long as you don't abuse my shit I will make sure it will at least get your back.

How quickly it gets you back on the other hand...
I don't know but you know we have wreckers to come pick you up if something happens so... We don't have unlimited funding.

[pine fog]

Classified documents NEEDS to be leaked on wt forums
Its a tradition.

[vapid smelt]

its north koreas turn tho

[graceful mortar]

Bear in mind being a part of 101st. We received extensive combat training.

The rule was we had to have enough skills to be inserted into any other unit and successfully complete the mission without detracting or creating a safety issue.

So we learned military movement drills, react to fire, we trained with combat infantry.

Hell one time we even got to train with SOAR that shit was LIT! And I spun wrenches.

[graceful mortar]

Lol. Or even updated satellite maps of the area... That way we don't come down into a valley and walk straight into the middle of a heavily armed base.

[warm dust]

When will the military unionize

[vapid smelt]

the Canadian ptsd soldiers get offered assisted death...

[desert ivy]

I understand respect inside the base. And I get how important their job is. But you are trying to explain to me how I'm wrong without acknowledging the big differences on what they do.

[full fossil]

Like you compared people in the Army to ordinary people. Like imagine the lad working in a comfy Developer job earning 100k/y and compare him to the lad risking his life to fight for the software dev and every other ordinary citizen whilst earning much less, risking life long injuries or even death just for you to turn around and say that he's comparable to an ordinary citizen? People in the Army risk there lives to defend you and your family whether you appreciate them or not.

[warm dust]

I want to see a warzone union walkout

[graceful mortar]

How though? Are you saying the gatekeeper to being thanked for your service should be PTSD???
Bro 🤯

[desert ivy]

No, combat. Or at least being shot at.

[vapid smelt]

we thank the chef for meals at restaurants whats so bad with thanking a person behind a desk or mop

[graceful mortar]

Yep. Even watching body cam footage from Iraq and Afghanistan make me extremely uneasy.

[full fossil]

What about logistic roles or first aider or the various other type of support roles? Most if not all missions would be literally impossible without support

[rare spindle]

Kind of wonder the type of person who considers being shot at in the service as a means of elevated status... one would think any soldier should try to avoid that. In any case, sounds like someone's trying to get folks worked up about POGs without saying it overtly.

[full fossil]

what has this channel become

[vapid smelt]

didnt you mechanics have to clean out vics too?

[graceful mortar]

I mean technically kind of sort of already am if you're willing to deal with it.... You can write to your member of Congress and they will actually do something about your issues just most people don't.

It's called a congressional inquiry.

[desert ivy]

Everyone? No? Isn't taking a bullet for your country something people praise.

[warm dust]

Not really the same

[rare spindle]

Apologies, folks in the channel. And it may be other countrymembers' viewpoints, but not mine.

[full fossil]

My new wallpaper, I appreciate your contribution to my collection

[warm dust]

I want to see a walkout

[quaint venture]

Everyone within the military plays a role, without logistics how would I get the parts I need to fix a weapon system or a circuit on a ship? Everyone has a role, it’s not all about being shot at

[desert ivy]

Nothing really. I thank the people that work with and provide me a service, directly.

[desert ivy]

I don't disagree with that statement. Not at all. I'm saying that the respect society gives you should be significantly higher if you experienced combat.

[full fossil]

Imagine being shot and wounded in battle but you die because some idiot decided that medics weren't important. Like just because you don’t get shot at dosnt mean that you don't play a role

[desert ivy]

Nobody said that.

[graceful mortar]

And I don't think that you quite understand that at least in the army. (Only because I don't have first time experiences with other branches)

The rangers could literally grab me out of a crowd shove a weapon in my hand and say let's go. Would they? Probably not.

the fact of the matter is I have to have that skill set to not get everybody killed.

I have to be completely mentally prepared to not hesitate. To run towards the danger. To take that shot without a moment's hesitation to eliminate that risk.

And sometimes, to protect my team by throwing my body on that grenade.

That kind of selfish service is why we think our military members for their service.

[full fossil]

You said that the minimum was to be shot at otherwise they are not important

[desert ivy]

I literally didn't. And if I did link it, because it's something that I don't believe.

[rare spindle]

The main thing i have with that thought, is that mentality only encourages enlistees to be hooked by recruiters (mainly USA) and desire to be shot at, because of that "elevated status", you're creating an overt caste system of soldiers, which has totally worked out in the past (see DeGaulle in the 70s)...

[quaint venture]

What do you count at combat? People were in Afghanistan without ever shooting another person but they were shot at or shot with rockets

[warm dust]

I am torn so many ways with this topic

[graceful mortar]

I never went over. My trauma occured stateside sadly.

[eager notch]

Military recruitment is fucking weird in general

[harsh quartz]

There is nothing that can be redeemed about this take, it’s all Ls

[full fossil]

Medics don't get shot at (if you don't want to commit war crimes) and they are still important and should be thanked for their service

[warm dust]

@graceful mortar is there anything you've seen or done you can't tell us

[rare spindle]

Yea, its pretty predatory in general (again at least in the US)

[graceful mortar]

But to answer your question directly yes I have cleaned up vehicles that came back from overseas that had bits of people under the blast mats.

[indigo plume]

Is the Herman miller aeron good chair if I like leaning back and playing controller type games

[warm dust]

Get a bean bag

[indigo plume]

I don't think bean bag would help for my back pain

[desert ivy]

Yet, I haven't heard a statement that it's reasonable to disprove it. Like nobody is accepting that the roles people do in the military vary immensely on your mind and body depending what you do.

[warm dust]

Herman Miller isn't worth it unless the job you work at starts with a C

[warm dust]

Gel bean bag

[harsh quartz]

All of them go through basic training, that’s enough for me :p

[indigo plume]

Bean bags don't seem very ergonomic

[vapid smelt]

standing desk

[full fossil]

So that Includes professional Cockroach Speed Eaters?

[warm dust]

Get the ones with memory foam or gel beads instead of the styrofoam balls

[warm dust]

No that starts with a P you dunce

[full fossil]

Professional isn't part of the professions name

[indigo plume]

Everyone be reccomendeding that chair

[graceful mortar]

Well kind of. They asked for my input on an intel asset.

They just kind of assumed everybody had clearances and we definitely did not have the top secret clearance required to have been able to inspect that asset at that level.

My input among others was one of the big reasons why that asset was redeveloped to a larger prime mover.

[indigo plume]

Tho even if u don't use it for work

[desert ivy]

If, they are in a position to get shot at, I'd say that's different. Besides, the mental toll that being a Paramedic is something that should be praised and it isn't, unless you are in the military of course.

[warm dust]

If you are rich sure but they are overpriced for the vast majority of people

[warm dust]

Idk mane I'm not a professional laborer and my mayor isn't a professional politician

[full fossil]

What about the mental toll of knowing that one little mistake in logistics can lead to the death of several of your comrades on the front line

[eager notch]

I was walking my dog and some guy who I had had like one class with in middle school (I was graduated from high school for like a year at this point) apparently saw me walking and just came up and talked to me and tried to convince me to go talk to a recruiter and he told me the quiet part out loud that if I went and talked to a recruiter and said I read referred by him, he'd get some extra bonus,

That's when I kind of realized military recruitment feels like an MLM and seemed kind of scummy

[indigo plume]

Don't like idea of been bag chair

[warm dust]

I don't understand any of this but I'm sure it will make the news as discord leak 2.0

[desert ivy]

Fair enough. But you do recognize that what the Military demands of its members is vastly different between each other.

[full fossil]

Professional Game Dev. You're job title is Game Dev and Professional is supposed to indicate that you are a professional in that feild

[warm dust]

@graceful mortar aren't you the guy with the bike that broke?

[warm dust]

Who calls themselves a professional game dev

[full fossil]

Professional Game Devs

[graceful mortar]

Right... I wonder how he would feel if he sat down with somebody who did spend time overseas.

And they decided to give them a play-by-play of the most traumatic events that they experienced.

They can describe that trauma in such fine detail you could nearly make an entire motion picture off of their descriptions.

The first time I had that experience it scared me. 100%.

But it also made me want to train even harder.
Because I'll be damned if I'm going to watch somebody die because I failed the train on how I could have saved them.

[harsh quartz]

Yeah, no shit, but you do realize that they all sign up to serve, correct? Why does it matter which job they do? Anyone that has to put up with government service deserves it for putting up with bureaucracy bullshit

[rare spindle]

Yup. Having worked with disabled Vets for the last 15 years (mostly SOF members), those who seek combat are usually the ones who are torn up the most afterwards. Then (again in the US) disposed of through substandard services. That all stats with quotas from recruiters.

[warm dust]

I dislike anyone who calls themself a professional game dev

[graceful mortar]

🤣🤣🤣

[graceful mortar]

Bike?

[warm dust]

Idk I was talking to someone who lived in Alaska or something

I don't remember a lot

I just realized your pfp isn't the default one

[full fossil]

This entire conversation is going into the news. Atleast more people will go to my personal website https://utabain.com

[eager notch]

Amazon should run logistics for the military

Then you can get a hellfire missile shipped to Iraq in two days with free shipping!

[warm dust]

I'm not clicking thag

[desert ivy]

If you or your buddies have had some traumatic experience at work, by being shot at, then I certainly sympathize, but it's my understanding that not all people that are in the army are deployed. So maybe that's the barrier?

[warm dust]

@full fossil what host do you use

[bold brook]

they already do run a lot of shit for the cia and other agencies, via aws

[full fossil]

Gandi for the domain and it's hosted on a raspberry pi in my bedroom

[warm dust]

Oo

[jovial trellis]

I need your guys opion

[eager notch]

But I want free shipping on deadly weapons!

[full fossil]

Sure

[jovial trellis]

I've had my pc for over 3 years almost 4 and I've heavily used it ever sinc

Is it time for an upgradd

[graceful mortar]

Your barrier.
Even when your rear d and the rest of your units deployed you're still directly supporting that fight.

You should talk to somebody who came up the ranks during the surge. I think your outlook will change substantially.

There were some of the best leaders that I ever had. Because they were very well aware of that if They didn't teach you you'd go out there and die.

[full fossil]

If you have prime then you can get knifes with next day delivery

[warm dust]

Does it work? Yes? Are you happy with it? Yes? Then don't upgrade

[full fossil]

What are the specs?

[warm dust]

If you answered no to any of those then upgrade

[eager notch]

Do you feel you need an upgrade?

[bold brook]

i mean only you can tell if it's time for an upgrade. if you're asking that kind of question, then it's probably getting close, especially if you are noticing it getting a bit sluggish

[jovial trellis]

1650 super 3400g

[jovial trellis]

Yeah I can tell it got way slower

Before I was able to run any game 144 fps no problem

[bold brook]

but if the current setup works fine to do what you need it to do, then you could wait

[full fossil]

Probably time for an upgrade, I'd recommend a new GPU. Probably the 6750xt for $330 if you're on a budget

[low rain]

Angwy man

[eager notch]

On the other hand, a fresh windows install can do a lot to an otherwise slow computer.

[jovial trellis]

Now I get 60 or sometimes less

[bold brook]

definitely

[warm dust]

PCs don't really get slower they just can't run newer games or are filled with bloatware... most of the time

[vapid smelt]

a new gpu will go long way

[jovial trellis]

I'm planning to build a whole new system

[bold brook]

if it's the same game it shouldnt be running so much slower now on the same hardware

[eager notch]

When was the last time you reinstalled Windows?

[bold brook]

like if its the same game you ran when you first had the pc and it would go that fast, there shouldn't be that huge of a difference

[warm dust]

What's your budget

[graceful mortar]

Anyway I'm done talking about it Lome. I'm going to go play some video games to calm my mind down after all of that.

[full fossil]

That's cool, what's your budget?

[jovial trellis]

a year mabye

[jovial trellis]

Anywhere between 1500 or 2000 cas

Cad

[vapid smelt]

could just get a $120 r5 5600 and a new gpu

[warm dust]

Cad

[vapid smelt]

ew cad

[warm dust]

Fuck you

[bold brook]

yah if you are going to do it piece by piece you might as well wait until you are going to upgrade out of the am4 architecture

[jovial trellis]

I swear canada has to much brown people

Like even though I'm brown there's just way to much

[bold brook]

and move on to ddr5, am5 or whatever if you move to intel as you'd need a new mobo as well

[vapid smelt]

ummmmm

[eager notch]

True

hell I wouldn't be the first person in my town to do that. A guy in my town ordered a hunting knife on Amazon and then stabbed 4 people to death in their sleep last fall.

[full fossil]

A r5 5600 for $120 and a radeon 6750xt for $330 is a pretty good deal

[jovial trellis]

Will my mother board even support it?

[silent elbow]

The Poor: I don't have the materialistic advantage as that rich fool have.
The Rich: I don't have the intellectual advantage as that poor fool have.
The middle class: I don't have both the materialistic and intellectual advantages as those rich and poor fools have.

[bold brook]

lmao idk what you're even supposed to say to that

[warm dust]

Eastern Canada?

[jovial trellis]

I think I have the b450 tomahawk or smth

[full fossil]

Bruv turned on friendly fire, also how is that relevant to this covo?

[jovial trellis]

Idk

[bold brook]

yeah b450 depending on the board can support ryzen 5 5600, you will likely have to upgrade bios depends on the model

[desert ivy]

I get why people are angry at what I said. I may have given the impression that I think they are less important. I understand that. I just from what I've seen, there's huuuge differences in what the military demands from it's soldiers. Like maybe we disagree in what that entails, but I didn't mean to imply they weren't important. And I suppose there's a level of respect required for people that serve their country, which I would extend to cops, paramedics and nurses. My point was more towards people that have had to take life and see people die, deserve extra recognition.

[eager notch]

I feel like this is rage bait but I truly don't know anymore

[jovial trellis]

For some reason my bios is in chinese

[bold brook]

i wouldnt upgrade your mobo just to go to a ryzen 5 5600 or even 5800 etc

msi b450 tomahawk?

[jovial trellis]

Yeah mai

[warm dust]

Canada does have a lot of immigrants

[full fossil]

what

[jovial trellis]

Msi

[eager notch]

5600x3d is fucking A

[full fossil]

fucking a what

[full fossil]

Are you trolling us? Also you can probably search up a changing language guide for your mobo bios online

[bold brook]

the b450 tomahawk max supports ryzen 5 5600x

[graceful mortar]

We give them extra recognition through their combat awards. Reward them with purple hearts for selfish service.

[desert ivy]

If you've experienced trauma and are not in a combat role and what I said upset you. I truly apologize as I should've been more careful in how I Expressed myself. Have fun.

[jovial trellis]

Ong I aint

[full fossil]

Why not?

[eager notch]

🐄

It's fucking awesome

[jovial trellis]

I'm not trolling

[full fossil]

Is it not the height of your day to fiddle with your bios?

[warm dust]

No

[bold brook]

i didnt even know there was a 5600x3d now, i knew of the 5800x3d

[jovial trellis]

I tried to change it back but I dont understand chinese

[warm dust]

This was the height of my day... 300m above the city and high in other ways

[bold brook]

looks to be about 260, idk, kind of expensive

[full fossil]

Search up a guide online with your phone or something

[jovial trellis]

Ok

I'm talking w my phone rn

[rare spindle]

I get what you're saying, I just dont see the need to elevate individuals in that way. Just because it happens with surgeons vs hospital staff, tenured professors vs higher ed staff, etc doesnt mean that mentality should apply everywhere. I dont plan my days figuring out who I should give respect to based on their employment, I try to do that on an individual basis based on the person.

[full fossil]

this picture was taken on the same camera they use to photograph aliens

[warm dust]

Aliens don't exist

[full fossil]

(im making fun of your camera quality)

[eager notch]

I have like 5 ryzen systems at my house, abd a bunch of them are different boards, one is MSI, Asus, gigabyte

Asus can shove their bios where the sun don't shine I hate it that much

[vapid smelt]

are you sure?

[full fossil]

also the chance of that being true is extremely low

[warm dust]

Nothing exists until observed and I don't believe we have observed aliens yet without a doubt

[desert ivy]

My country has the problem that Military men get nowhere near enough the respect they deserve. Mexican military is probably the less corrupt of all the Mexican government things, but still people don't trust them/respect them.

[full fossil]

"nothing exists until observed"
?

[warm dust]

That is what I belive

[full fossil]

why

[warm dust]

Because I have free will

[full fossil]

What about theory's in science? We know some things exist far in the universe without observing them. And I'm not talking about aliens

im taking away ur free will

[warm dust]

They are theories

[rare spindle]

imho thats kind of a sh*t sandwitch situation too though. However yea, there's some institutional issues there that can't be solved easily for sure.

[warm dust]

A theory doesn't prove anything

[full fossil]

The big bang theory

[full fossil]

the theory

[warm dust]

That show is a psyop

[full fossil]

When there's not recorded history, their's theory. Theory can be close enough to the truth to be real

[warm dust]

Nothing is real

[eager notch]

The thing I find annoying is the US apparently has no money for shit like healthcare, education, and good public transit

but for the military we be like

[graceful mortar]

Hell the low crawl module of basic training is just that.

You crawl across a sand pit in a hyper realistic stimulation. Your experiencing flares, IDF, explosions (yes you can feel the heat), All while tracer rounds fly above your head in total darkness. You're only guidance is glow stick at the end of the course.
You are navigating c wire, traps and various other obstacles will maintaining the lowest silhouette as possible.

Buddy live fire.
You're bounding towards an objective while placing your life quite literally in the skill set of your battle buddy. Oh and it's with live rounds. Yeah you have your vest on but still. Accidents happen there's been more than a couple drill sergeants that died on that course.

[warm dust]

Closest thing I've done to that was an oil fire at the school auto shop... paint cans exploding and oil flying everywhere was not fun

[full fossil]

the us spends more on healthcare than any other country and its not even close

[vapid smelt]

hey it does go to health care (just not for us)

[warm dust]

People die in basic training all the time saying that it's not that bad isn't really a good argument

Why do I have to feed the africans

Why is Israel getting foreign aid lmfao

[bold brook]

careful now haha

[full fossil]

he would like to have a word with you

[desert ivy]

American companies spend billions on their medicines, sell them to Americans at 1000 dollars a pill, and to European governments at 50 dollars 😬

[graceful mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/chill-out-relax-be-calm-easy-take-it-easy-gif-15820228

[warm dust]

Why is Israel a protected group

[bold brook]

true...the situation with people going into poverty due to healthcare bills is absolutely disgusting

[warm dust]

They are no different from Confederates in the 17-1800s

[rare spindle]

I don't have enough beer to start on that one 🙂 (and its 9am here)

[graceful mortar]

Please utilize Google there is no way to explain it here without inciting a riot.

[full fossil]

and then americans pay that exact same price because insurance exists

[warm dust]

Don't worry I got you covered there

[bold brook]

at the absolute minimum there should be some kind of universal healthcare in the US, there's no good argument for it to not exist for everyone...even if people want to have additional insurance on top of that

[full fossil]

there are many good arguments for it to not exist wdym

[graceful mortar]

After you meet your $5,000 to $15,000 deductible.... Don't forget that there is coverage limits so if you exceed a certain amount your responsible for all that remains.

[rare spindle]

I have a fride of it in the garage, just don't want to go in the rain to get it 🙂

[desert ivy]

Once you sign up for the army, like is there a chance you'll end up seeing combat even if you want a non combat position? I guess that's commendable and it makes me think why what I said is upsetting.

[warm dust]

I have a few opinions about Zionism I feel a lot of people here wouldn't like me sharing

[full fossil]

depends who ur getting insurance from

[bold brook]

considering how much money our government spends on all kinds of other shit, i think the least we could do is provide such a service to the citizens of this country instead

cut the ridiculous amount of wasteful foreign aid and military spending, i'm sure we can come up with the funding from somewhere

[rare spindle]

Yes, depends on where you're deployed. Not only which country, but where in the country. There are a lot of cases where support staff / non-combat soldiers saw combat in many places in the middle east.

[graceful mortar]

We tried, split Congress meant we got this weird ass... Compromised solution. With literally the worst of both worlds.

Sure health care reform occurred just like was a promise during the campaign. But nobody was really happy with it an insurance companies sleazed their way around it like they always have.

[full fossil]

cut the ridicolous amounts of foreign aid and military spending and decrease taxes instead

[bold brook]

yah if you are talking about obamacare that's a total mess, that basically just gave insurance companies even more money

[graceful mortar]

Yes there is no such thing as a true non-combat position in the army.

[bold brook]

sure, that'd work too

[eager notch]

It's good we give that poor poor nation of Israel more foreign aid than pretty much any other country when they have a mere per capita income higher than countries like Canada or Sweden.

(Sarcasm definitely intended if not obvious)

[desert ivy]

Still Europeans government pay less for those medicines that Insurers do. Pharmaceutical companies have a huge grasp on American politics.

[bold brook]

yah it was funny when trump was doing his 'build the wall' thing, his admin sent another like 40 billion to israel where they built a wall for them, a third one

[full fossil]

pharmaceutical companes have a huge grasp on the entire world's politics wdym

[graceful mortar]

Well I mean yeah that's true.

for the best coverage possible with the minimum amount of pocket it's $1,300 a month when I was 22 years old..... And that was back when minimum wage was $6.90. 😐

[full fossil]

they can just stop selling medicine to you at any time for any reason

[eager notch]

Foreign aid is basically a rounding error to the US government so I'm actually just fine with most foreign aid

[desert ivy]

I think I get it. I wouldn't have said what I said how I said it if I thought about it like that.

[bold brook]

yup, the top poistions at the FDA is basically a revolving door of people from the pharmaceutical industry, same as much of the different bureaucraciies and cabinet positions in the federal govt

[graceful mortar]

Yes but you're looking at it in a vacuum.

The issue is is it would have to go through service providers and they're going to view it as a blank check and excuse to overcharge the government we already see that with Medicare prescription drug coverage.

[graceful mortar]

See can't really decrease taxes when the debt load of every United States citizen is over $100,000 because of the federal deficit.

[bold brook]

yeah of course, thats why when you try to get pricing for things at the hospital or at a doctors office if they take insurance, they cant even give you accurate up front pricing half of the time, because they are fleecing the insurance companies for as much as possible, it's a corrupt mess

[full fossil]

universal healthcare wouldnt be viable either then

[desert ivy]

Not like the US. The US is probably the only first world country that allows Pharmaceutical companies to put on ads over the most profitable vague meds. Nowhere in the world Pharma advertises to Patients.

[bold brook]

hopefully this puts things a bit into perspective as well

https://worldbeyondwar.org/no-bases/

[full fossil]

i was born in germany and i saw many ads on TVs for medicine the fuck are you talking about

[bold brook]

i know for a fact there are a few missing from that map, as well

[rare spindle]

Its not that the US allows it... its the the US is driving by the stream of $ offered companies for these policies... "In the US you can do anything you like, as long as you dont get in the way of someone else making money"

[eager notch]

Medicare prescription drug coverage is an awful example because Medicare was not able to bargain with drug companies about the price of drugs until literally two days ago

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2023/08/29/hhs-selects-the-first-drugs-for-medicare-drug-price-negotiation.html

[graceful mortar]

You're forgetting the retaliatory nature of companies in the United States.

They would simply sue the United States government forcing a hold on action, or deny accepting that price controlled coverage it in any way shape or form. They are private entities and they're free to do as they please.

[desert ivy]

For shit like coughs and headaches. Not antidepressants.

[full fossil]

i definitely saw headache medicine ads on tv

[mild hedge]

bread

[bold brook]

well, our government is already completely captured by corporations and corporate interests...how long we continue to go on with this, is anyone's guess

[full fossil]

bread

[rare spindle]

OTC probably, not stuff that lists "leakage" in warnings 🙂

[bold brook]

it's certainly not healthy though

[mild hedge]

BREAD

[eager notch]

They definitely have ads for antidepressants on TV

[full fossil]

whar

[silent elbow]

not until we gathered/united americans

[graceful mortar]

I know. And the industry will never let that happen ever again in any future action. Ever.

They'll simply switch gears and then refuse to sell the medication in question in the United States.

[bold brook]

i think outside of the US there's only a few countries where you can have advertisements on TV for medications the way that we do...i believe it's new zealand to some extent, and canada also but to a lesser extent as the US for sure

[full fossil]

i remember seeing all kinds of ads on tv, including antidepressants

[desert ivy]

Germany prohibits the advertisement of prescription medication. That's just a fact.

[bold brook]

the ads for pharmaceuticals in the US are out of control

[graceful mortar]

Ask your doctor how XYZ can help

[bold brook]

"may cause homicidal rage"

[graceful mortar]

Funny.... Kind of like how Prudue managed to convince doctors that they were being cruel and unusual for "undertreating pain"

Don't worry though They were quick with the solution their non-habit forming oxycontin..... No risk whatsoever of dependency....

[polar fern]

@bold brook it’s fine. Just list all of the potential side-effects to pass the time till the tv show comes back on

[desert ivy]

Basically means pay a doctor to give you a prescription.

[bold brook]

if you experience a serious urge to sacrifice offerings to the demon moloch, or an uncontrollable craving nfor human blood - please contact your physician, you may need a dose adjustment

[polar fern]

Dear tv ad, stop telling me to talk to my doctor about your pill.

[bold brook]

it's crazy from the other end of it too, those pharma reps are very slick

[dusky sail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZrYeUX3MI

[full fossil]

just close your eyes

[polar fern]

Close eyes?

[full fossil]

turn off the tv

ez

[rare spindle]

DK, nationally owned tv station(s) dont have ADs at all, commercial stations that originate outside of the country may have diffrerent policies, but still have to conform to EU regs on ads etc

[graceful mortar]

Actually now that I think of it I think even opioids had ads on the United States television at one point.... 🤯🤯🤯

[bold brook]

it's definintely not the same as it was say, a decade ago when these pharma reps were pushing all kinds of power opioids like oxycontin et al onto supposedly "naive" physicians to give out like candy, but a lot of these psych drugs are very dangerous

benzos especially are given out like candy

[polar fern]

Speaking of TV and ads, I really love how anyone can put an ad on TV without any type of screening or accountability. Same with YouTube.

[bold brook]

im not sure if there were ever ads for schedule II drugs on TV, maybe in the past, but idk

[graceful mortar]

You mean like how they forgot to mention that oxycontin has an effect on mental as well. Because of how it works it can "solve" mental pain as well.

[rare spindle]

Actually its in a way easier to get. A lot of online services etc can be used outside of insurance plans and they can perscribe just about anything.

[bold brook]

i do know that there were all kinds of special swag and little goodies that were branded with the various drug companies' products

[full fossil]

i know a fool proof solution to mental pain

[eager notch]

I meant in the US, and believe me, we find it fucking weird as well.

The reason I'm at the doctor is to see if I can get something done about whatever the issue is, but I assume the doctor knows more about medication than I do.

[graceful mortar]

If I recall correctly they weren't scheduled two back then

[polar fern]

back in the 90s. The only medication advertisements that were on TV was like Advil and stuff.

[bold brook]

i have some crazy pharma swag at home, there's a fentanyl brand golf umbrella lol

[polar fern]

Yikes

[rare spindle]

Pre-Citizen's United, a lot was better 🙂

[desert ivy]

It's the first amendment right as corporations to talk about the benefits of Opioids.

[harsh quartz]

Slapchop

[full fossil]

i violated the first amendment

[desert ivy]

Sorry some people was telling me how Germany is different and I think I got mixed up.

[polar fern]

Unfortunately, propaganda is also allowed on TV & video/streaming services alongside the death pill & other scammy/pushy ads.

[graceful burrow]

You don't have the power to violate the first amendment
Only the government can violate the first amendment

[full fossil]

(it was a joke)

[graceful mortar]

Y'all want to see something crazy?? They were HQ in my home town... Subsys
Fentanyl delivered directly to the bloodstream.

https://youtu.be/WvCld2vKug8?si=Ub9KFXHqqUcZ55kd

Sales agents masquerading as insurance employees. Just 🤯🤯🤯

[bold brook]

stuff like oxycodone without acetaminophen or tylenol (so like oxycontin, roxycodone), morphine or mscontin, hydromorphone (dilaudid), oxymorphone (opana, oxynorm, etc) , fentanyl (actiq, duragesic, fentora, etc.), and stuff like adderall (amphetamine salts), dexedrine (dextroamphetamine), and a few other similar meds are all schedule II

[harsh quartz]

What if we cut someone’s tongue out

[graceful burrow]

(jokes are supposed to be funny)

[full fossil]

so many big words

[full fossil]

humor is subjective, the world doesnt revolve around you

[desert ivy]

Discord and Reddit mods try to violate my first amendment every day

[graceful burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-gif-19260546

[harsh quartz]

That’s cause you have bad takes every day

[vapid smelt]

are you a us citizen?

[full fossil]

we should ban people who think free speech is bad

[polar fern]

@harsh quartz

[harsh quartz]

You’ll be slappin my nuts

[full fossil]

will i now

[polar fern]

No thanks

[tepid stirrup]

can anyone ask questions in tech support?

[desert ivy]

Only if it helps me to win an argument in the internet. The rest of the time I'm Mexican.

[polar fern]

@tepid stirrup yes

[graceful burrow]

That's the point

[harsh quartz]

I’m assuming you’ve seen the slap nuts video

[tepid stirrup]

ok thanks

[polar fern]

Nope. I do attempt to preserve my own sanity, believe it or not.

[bold brook]

ah, was that for those implantable pellets of subcutaneous fentanyl that they were trying to roll out or am i thinking of something else? they used to (i think they still do) have these fentanyl lollipops (lozenges) called actiq, they are white raspberry falvored and like a lollipop except the stick has a giant ⚠️ sign on the bottom of it that says ALERT contains fentanyl at the bottom of it

[eager notch]

And yet in my state, I can get a misdemeanor and go to jail for a year for being having an ounce of pot

What the actual fuck Idaho?!

[bold brook]

yah that's rough idaho laws seem ridiculous

[harsh quartz]

https://youtu.be/iIgEWRb61IQ?si=GZ_C-z_3DgqvyIJ-

[full fossil]

breaking the law is illegal, yes

[bold brook]

hopefully the recent news of them trying to have it rescheduled to schedule III nationwide/federally, is true

we'll see if it happens though

[polar fern]

Unlike a lot of people (and I mean most people) I use the Internet primarily for learning and sharing information. If I want entertainment, I’ll put on some cartoons or play video game or some shit

[harsh quartz]

Gotta go back to the days of YouTube poops

[polar fern]

I don’t know what that is

[thin fjord]

real

[desert ivy]

I tried Weed in Amsterdam for the second time in my life and it was horrible. I got the sweats for what seemed like the longest time

[harsh quartz]

Fuckin zoomers

[desert ivy]

Adderall however is great.

[polar fern]

It is actually not legal to sell marijuana in Amsterdam.

[full fossil]

(unenforced)

[full fossil]

portland moment

[polar fern]

No, they outright banned it fairly recently

[eager notch]

I'm saying the law is fucking stupid

And I don't even smoke pot personally so it doesn't affect me, it's just an idiotic law

[desert ivy]

There's some weird loop hole where you can sell it but only what's inside the store, if you get caught transporting it you can get in trouble.

[thin fjord]

i think they're more-so calling out the inconsistencies of law enforcment in the US. someone who is, say, from california, may go to idaho with the habits they've built up over the years and then have their lives ruined and record stained because of inconsistent law enforcement

[vapid smelt]

the hell hole portland

[polar fern]

No, there’s no weird loophole

[graceful mortar]

I could have sworn Ritalin XR had a TV ad.

[thin fjord]

the opium problem is terrible here and it sucks to see people try to turn it into an aesthetic

[full fossil]

no, just hell

[polar fern]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/amsterdams-red-light-district-starts-marijuana-smoking-ban-2023-05-25/

[desert ivy]

I think the studies on pot in teenagers show how dangerous it can be. If it's as available as tobacco let's say.

[thin fjord]

has some pretty nice views and camping grounds tho

[warm dust]

It's completely legal here... just expensive

[full fossil]

camping grounds? you mean, the streets?

[warm dust]

You can grow up to 3 plants per household iirc

[eager notch]

Do you know how this guy got arrested?

[harsh quartz]

Yeah I remember hearing something about that

[thin fjord]

lots of neighboring parks not far from the city

i used to have a coworker who'd go camping every month or so

[full fossil]

you can collect syringes

[thin fjord]

not many on the streets themselves but im sure the local homeless people will be happy to assist you on your quest

i accidentally helped someone light a crack pipe because i assumed them asking me for a lighter was for a cigarette

i no longer lend people lighters

[full fossil]

awesome

[desert ivy]

Land of the free.

[thin fjord]

big government wants to take away our crack! i thought this was a free country!

[graceful mortar]

https://youtu.be/cGGtYg0dpoM?si=qlMTTck3eeNeAyRc

So you can advertise for a drug that's supposed to be paired with your other drug that you're not allowed to advertise for...

[full fossil]

1984

[vapid smelt]

helping people poison themselves ❤️

[bold brook]

where's 'here' if you dont mind me asking? when it became legal fully recreationally here in california the prices got out of control, the taxes they charge at the store is insane

[eager notch]

Weed being legal or not has basically no impacts in if high school students can buy it easily

[bold brook]

growing it makes much more sense

[tired glade]

Oh,no video today

[thin fjord]

i already smoke so it's not like im in any position to tell people to quit tobacco, plus many people actually would pay for a stogey so it's kinda a side hustle

[warm dust]

https://youtube.com/@theshamwowguy?si=7mwjgHn49telN31r

I didn't know I was subscribed to this channel but I guess I was

[thin fjord]

it's not homeless people usually, just people at the bus stop

[desert ivy]

I think it being legal means there's more available and it's usage is less Taboo. Although I didn't grew up near any drug usage so perhaps that's me being Naive.

[polar fern]

So like make sure you guys are reading the rules for the server. (Rule 3 stands out).

[vapid smelt]

lol

[bold brook]

unpopular opinion but people should be allowed to buy and use whatever drugs they want if they are over the age of 21, they should be legalized and regulated and we should stop treating it as a law enforcement problem and more as a mental health and addiction thing

[warm dust]

Canada. A gram of concentrate in a 510 is around 55 cad

[bold brook]

beacuse the war on drugs has been an absolute unmitigated disaster thus far

[full fossil]

just like the law, some things are unenforced.

[thin fjord]

we're making friendly conversation. this is one of the few times the chat isn't on fire let us enjoy it please

[full fossil]

agreed, this would make natural selection way more effective.

[warm dust]

I think people are too stupid for all drugs but yea I agree with the sentiment

[polar fern]

“We are making friendly conversations it doesn’t matter what the rules are” 😬

[desert ivy]

I'll stop. But I don't like my first amendment rights being TRAMPLED.

[graceful mortar]

Darwin theory. Interesting I believe there's a South American country that's like that.

[warm dust]

People here talk about coffee what's the difference

[thin fjord]

are you gonna call the mods because we're conversating in the public chat? if you don't like it you can always switch to a different channel since you're clearly not participating

[polar fern]

The first amendment is a United States thing & does not apply to the Internet as a whole or places like privately operated social media platforms.

[full fossil]

aldonist moment

[thin fjord]

iono moment

[full fossil]

its almost like he was kidding

[warm dust]

@keen cradle

[thin fjord]

@warm dustgreat now i gotta delete my messages 🙄

[polar fern]

telling a longtime community member to go somewhere else because you want to talk about topics that are not really appropriate is definitely an interesting take.

[full fossil]

what would you like to talk about 😁

[thin fjord]

you hold no obligation to this server nor it, you

[desert ivy]

There's minors here. Some conversation aren't appropriate. The rules are there for a reason usually. Even if some of the rules are just bad.

[eager notch]

This isn't America, THIS IS OHIO

https://youtu.be/_ayZy4PyGa4?si=GaUX50ycVepcaL-A

[thin fjord]

aye fair enough but we can atleast try to be logical

[warm dust]

Long time community member

joined december 2022

[bold brook]

i agree on people being stupid though i would put it like this -- the average person isn't going to go and say "oh gee whiz, now that it's legal to do heroin i think i'm going to go and buy some and start injecting it", but there are a ton of people who are dying from things like fentanyl overodses from doing stuff like dangerously cut illicit fentanyl and even more potent analogues on the streets of the US and canada (like that "tranq" shit which isn't even an opiate but a very dangerous drug called xylazine, or other sketchy strong research chemical stuff), those people would stand a much better chance of being able to get into treatment and have a shot at fixing their lives imho

[graceful mortar]

But we're not talking about 'drugs' we're talking about medications. 🙃

[polar fern]

I actually joined the discord in 2019.

[thin fjord]

doesn't give you any more authority than me or anyone else here

[polar fern]

You need to follow the rules or leave, it’s a pretty simple concept

[warm dust]

If weed was criminalized here I wouldn't take it but I'm not sure how I would react for something like cocaine or heroin

[thin fjord]

you can apply to be a mod maybe, then you can enforce all the rules you'd like!

[polar fern]

Authority oh my gosh

[full fossil]

1984

[shut lichen]

find me someone that died solely because of weed that wasn't doing something stupid while high, like driving

[polar fern]

people should not the need to have moderators step in every five minutes just because you can’t control how you behave on the Internet platform.

[bold brook]

you may be thinking of some countries which have de facto "decriminalized" certain drugs, in my opinion this is oftentimes actually a worse choice than having them outright illegal, as the decriminalization only fuels the illegal aspects of the market -- it lets the cartels and dealers who are already operating have the knowledge that they'll get a slap on the wrist if they get caught, while the demand remains. there's no incentive for the supply of things which people are taking to be regulated and of a known quantity/quality which is what is killing a lot of people

[desert ivy]

I do hate people snitching to mods for certain rules like sticking to tech. And any other community I wouldn't give a damn. But LTT appeals to 13 year olds so I feel like that's the one case where, maybe err on the safe side.

[full fossil]

"find me someone that died solely of an overdose that wasn't doing something stupid like overdosing"

[elfin solar]

Might not be dead but an old mate of mine completely messed his head up smoking to much weed.

[warm dust]

Fentanyl isn't really an issue. The issue with it is it's being cut in with other drugs and people are taking too much without realizing it. If all drugs were regulated instead of sold on the street we would not see the same issues we have today with it

[full fossil]

you are making up problems in your head

[polar fern]

Um

[warm dust]

Today I found out transit is a prude

[shut lichen]

jeez, how much did they smoke?

[desert ivy]

The problem with decriminalization is that then the government has the power to incarcerate certain people and not others. It opens the system for big corruption.

[full fossil]

all

[bold brook]

yup this is exactly what im saying, people aren't even necessarily sure of what they're doing, they wind up taking fentanyl cut with xylazine and some unknown research chemical that is mega potent made in some sketchy lab

[polar fern]

<@&750150305383186585> @warm dust rule 2

[thin fjord]

fair enough

[thin fjord]

3*

[full fossil]

mini mod

[elfin solar]

He got to the point in his late teens where he couldn’t leave the house with out smoking some.

[shut lichen]

ah, teen smoker

[graceful mortar]

It's very possible. But if you allow open supply prices tend to fall and in all fairness their theory is that they are not contributing members of the economy anyways and they should be left to their own disposal if you will...

[warm dust]

Is 18 too young to smoke? That is the legal limit in alberta

[bold brook]

yah, decriminalization is basically a halfway measure, should be legalization and regulation. there's only a few places where they've even tried something that comes close to this, but the results where they've done so have been promising, albeit it's not been full legalization. portugal for example has done basically a 180 in regards to the problems they formerly had with widespread addiction and public vagrancy from drug use, same thing in some countries like switzerland

[polar fern]

People can get addicted to anything. Heck, when we first evolved, we did not have access to pure refined sugars.

[full fossil]

you shouldnt smoke at any age, if you're smart

[thin fjord]

in the US it's 21

[shut lichen]

really depends on the person

[warm dust]

I cannot operate without soft drinks

[olive stump]

Why do I hear clown music?

[warm dust]

Wrong type of smoking

[full fossil]

it might be from transit

[olive stump]

No...no that's not it

[full fossil]

ALL types of smoking

[warm dust]

I see

[thin fjord]

no they're right. if you want thc/cbd then edibles are an option

[shut lichen]

smoking isn't the only way to consume weed

[rare spindle]

Portugal make it into a public health issue rather than a law enforcement issue so people actually can get help on addiction etc too., A great first step

[warm dust]

I know just easier to say lol

[bold brook]

yeah if the prices fall though they also will not be committing crime to get their fix. in places where they've tried this approach like in switzerland is probably the most well known and thoroughly studied program that tested this model, they had an enormous reduction in burglaries and street crime, like unprecedented reductions

[shut lichen]

and is the least recommended way

[warm dust]

Gummies are gross though

[desert ivy]

Yeah I actually meant de facto decriminalization. When it's a crime but it isn't enforced at all.

[full fossil]

gettingi addicted to drugs no matter how you consume them isnt a good thing

[polar fern]

Another aspect that people may not think about is the burden you are placing on the health care system, and the stress that you are causing the people around you. All of this stuff should be handled as a wellness thing and not a police thing.

[shut lichen]

gummies are indeed weird. brownies exist for a reason, and are much easier to make yourself

[bold brook]

yup, ,exactly. the idea that we are going to arrest our way out of this situation is naive at best

[warm dust]

Brownies make my stomach hurt

[graceful mortar]

I think the countries that are basically giving a free-for-all for drug use do not allow healthcare for that drug use.

You are literally on your own.

At least that was my understanding.

[rare spindle]

America says "Hold my beer".. but yea.

[bold brook]

yeah thats pretty much what is happening on certain cities in the US and Canada right now and it's not going too well, heh

[warm dust]

Normal ones and special ones

[shut lichen]

should probably get that checked

[warm dust]

Cough cough denmark

[shut lichen]

lactose? gluten? idk

[graceful mortar]

Yeah not with land borders. You could maybe regulate / arrest your way out of it with an island but not land borders.

[polar fern]

America should not be considered an example of how to do things correctly.

[rare spindle]

At least some states (where its legal) are putting taxed revenue into health care or public services a bit more so there is good happening, its just glacial progress

[warm dust]

They're winning I see no issues

[desert ivy]

Whenever you decriminalize or give dull free reign on drugs you reduce spenditure in police and put it into giving needles to the homeless and their ER visits.

[olive stump]

Define: Winning

[graceful mortar]

The idea was to stop tying up the police for. And to drastically reduce the amount of taxpayer money going into incarceration of these individuals.

It's like those cities that started drug court where they basically said hey look if you get clean and stay clean for a year you will not have a permanent record for your felony.

[full fossil]

our citizen's make way more money than the average EU citizen, so, we must be doing somethingcorrectly.

[rare spindle]

The only problem being there's a whole corp industry of incarcertaion... which doesnt help anything...

[shut lichen]

the only example of the US doing something "correctly" is their military

[warm dust]

The opposite of losing

[olive stump]

Thank you IQ haver

[graceful mortar]

Allegedly they rehabilitate so it's like a medical service..... At least that's what they say

[thin fjord]

rehab only works for those that want it

[polar fern]

Again, mental health is the core of all of these issues. Instead of treating drug use as a moral thing, we should be framing. It is a mental health and wellness thing because that’s what it is. No one willingly becomes fully dependent on super dangerous substances. It’s a behaviour to numb pain from some trauma or neurological stress.

[rare spindle]

The same for profit prisons that legisate against legalization based on the logic that "it hurts the amount of people we can lock up on a yearly basis".

[bold brook]

even then, in places like australia where they have a very well-trained, well-funded and overall quite proficient customs and border protection agency who are supposedly one of the most strict on the planet and are very well known for their thoroughness at finding stuff (due to the nature of the country being an isolated island), there's still plenty of illicit substances available and people using them, they're just more expensive but there'll always be someone nwilling to try breaking the law on both ends of the equation -- to make money and to consume psychoactive substances

[graceful mortar]

Yeah but you can kind of force it

either you go to rehab or you spend 18 months in jail with no possibility of early release. They are subject to regular and randomized drug testing.

[full fossil]

now switch the word drug to guns

[rare spindle]

Falls under the "Life finds a way" rule 🙂

[polar fern]

Again, we should be asking ourselves, “why are people willing to break the law to consume potentially dangerous substances?”.

[warm dust]

Speaking of jail I personally know people who have asked for longer sentences because of the price of housing and food

[desert ivy]

El Salvador went from being the most Dangerous city in South America to being one of the safest by implementing the thoughest prisons in the continent

[olive stump]

Fun fact of the day: Drugs aren't guns!

[bold brook]

yah that may have been the initial intent going into it, but ironically (sadly, actually), its wound up making things a lot worse, you have people acting like "zombies" in the street in places like philadelphia, portland, san francisco, etc. and open illicit substance use/sales going on right in broad daylight. it's like the downtown eastside neighborhood in vancouver BC has expanded and gone international to certain places in the US

[warm dust]

Why should the government tell me what I can and cannot consume?

[full fossil]

1984

[warm dust]

Why is the government almighty

[olive stump]

and committing numerous human rights violations in the process

[bold brook]

government s hould have no place trying to regulate or impose rules on what an adult wants to consume

[warm dust]

"skill issue"

[full fossil]

Gotta do what you gotta do, though

[rare spindle]

Dunno, maybe because politics are treated like sports teams and now there's really no desire for anyone to try to pass policy for the greater good?

[full fossil]

fuck the government for not letting me buy a bomb

[desert ivy]

Nobody cares. Absolutely no one in South America cares. It's actually a meme how first worlders complain about it.

[bold brook]

obviously you cant be doing things like operating a car or heavy machinery while under the influence, etc, you cant be selling these things to minors, etc.

[bold brook]

yah, those are totally the same thing 🙄

[rare spindle]

You can, geta license and appease the ATF and build all you want...

[olive stump]

a) Not south america
b) Their "figures" have been disputed by most major NGOs

[full fossil]

i want a thermonuclear bomb

[warm dust]

If it doesn't extend a politicians time in office it shouldn't be passed imo

[graceful mortar]

Cough there are..... Other solutions

https://youtu.be/qugduxazBBg?si=1esTgBXQaNAAgxnb

[shut lichen]

usually because allowing anyone to consume whatever ends up causing strain on the health services offered by the government

[polar fern]

“The government” do you even understand what a government is in a democracy? It’s a body that governs the territory of the people who elected them. If there wasn’t a government, things would fall apart super quick.

[olive stump]

mfers don't even know where a country is and want to poster child it's human rights abuses, GGWP

Real clown hours rn

[full fossil]

i know where el salvador is

[thin fjord]

lack of sleep for the US bros

[warm dust]

Proper education and regulation would fix that

[desert ivy]

Lol you are right. I committed the sin I swore as a Mexican I would never commit

[dusky sail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyo86xpsDk

[thin fjord]

what happened to that game where you play as bread and try to become toast

[dusky sail]

that game is shit

[warm dust]

Is this ps exclusive

[thin fjord]

never played it

[full fossil]

bread

[shut lichen]

it would greatly improve it.

[dusky sail]

🥐

[rare spindle]

Thats a difficult statement given the current status of many countries, but point is still mostly true.

[olive stump]

[ x ] Doubt

[full fossil]

below honduras

in central america

eat ass

[shut lichen]

no

[warm dust]

Oh

[shut lichen]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1555140/Born_of_Bread/

Steam

Born of Bread

Beings from another age are causing havoc across the land! And with their mischief comes a great threat to everyone. The unlikeliest hero, a golem born of bread, will find himself and his newfound friends in the middle of a drama that's thousands of years in the making. Together, they will visit incredible locals and meet fascinating characters,...

Release Date

Coming soon

▶ Play video

[desert ivy]

Even if you believed the NGOs. You can't hide public sentiment towards safety. Nobody cares about the figures. They care about going outside at night and feeling safe. That's real.

[bold brook]

right now people are basically doing this anyway, and the problems with how it effects the healthcare system are oftentimes compounded by the illegality. unfrotunately ithe way that these things have been implemented have been an unmitigated disaster (not to mention a PR nightmare, tbh) in many places, but that's initially why syringe exchange programs (not "free syringes" progrrams, or"free crackpipe" programs which is what it seems to have morphed into, unfortunately) were designed for -- to cut down on people sharing injecting equipment thus reducing the spread of things like hepatitis C and HIV

[olive stump]

Congrats, yes this is the name of the area! You got there in the end!

[full fossil]

?

i dont recall ever referring to it as anything else

[olive stump]

I tend to believe NGOs over authoritarian populists who piss their nation's wealth away on cryptocurrency 🙂

[polar fern]

“Going outside and feeling safe”. Unfortunately this concept has led to the deaths of more people in my country than I care to think about.

[graceful mortar]

Yeah free needle programs are literally there to prevent extreme cost to the taxpayer.

It's also recognition of help is not effective unless somebody wants help.

[bold brook]

i have been to el salvador with a friend whose family is from there, who on the visit with me was going back for the first time in 3 years, and the difference from when he was last there to when we visited was so profound he was literally almost crying, i dont think it was an act whatsoever... im sure that some of the fanfare over their leader and the approval ratings etc. are hyped up but there's definitely a lot of people there who are very, very happy with the changes

[desert ivy]

You can believe the people and the hundreds of communities that are happier than ever.

[polar fern]

Happy? Sounds like Stockholm syndrome.

[bold brook]

of course, i cna't say t hat i was in places that were necessarily the most dangerous neighborhoods or the worst barrios or whatever, but even in the areas that we visited i was told by all kinds of locals that these were areas that you wouldn't have seen ANY tourists whatsoever in just a few years prior

[polar fern]

measuring a location by tourist numbers is pretty horrific.

[full fossil]

disney world..?

[bold brook]

i mean, measuring by the decrease in murder numbers highlights a pretty stark difference

[olive stump]

This is fair and I know there is some genuine support there for a lot of those policies, but there's a lot of people there as well who've had family thrown into prison just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time

[desert ivy]

El Salvador has 6 million people. This guys think they can believe an NGO over the words of 6 million people. Venezuelans aren't praising their president, and no one believes their numbers. Yet in El Salvador people believe their government.

[full fossil]

a few get arrested wrongly so a thousand people can live safely

[olive stump]

Human rights abuses can be popular, doesn't make it right

[polar fern]

You can’t take a shortcut to a stable society through brutal oppression of certain groups or people. You have to do the work.

[desert ivy]

You mean being covered in gang tattoos? And hanging around with gang members?

[full fossil]

you can absolutely take shortcuts

[polar fern]

people just love fascism when it benefits them, it’s pretty scary

[tranquil nimbus]

Do you know Blackstone's Ratio?

[full fossil]

define fascism

[rare spindle]

But considering previous decades of overt violence and opression into something that can be improved upon, certainly isn't something to sneer at imho

[full fossil]

yes

[warm dust]

Government but fast

[full fossil]

and i dont agree with it

[gray yoke]

Fuck you linus

[polar fern]

“Man, I feel so safe outside at night it’s like a whole new country!” Just don’t look at the acres of disturbed soil or that weird new windowless building.

[full fossil]

government but fashionable

[bold brook]

obviously i can only speak for myself here but i'm certainly not cool with innocent people being detained or wrongly imprisoned...however there's obviously a ton of literal mega violent gang members who were extorting and murdering the locals in huge numbers, who are now locked up and in prison....i see nothing wrong with that

[gray yoke]

🖕

[bold brook]

if the people who have been locked up are avowed gangsters and they are no longer out hurting innocent people, that's a good thing

[polar fern]

Putting a bunch of people into jail isn’t going to fix your society.

[bold brook]

well, it seems to be helping so far

[desert ivy]

NGOs sleep when it comes to helping the poor, but as soon as those countries do stuff for themselves then they care a lot about human rights. What El Salvador is doing is working.

[olive stump]

There's genuinely a good "does the ends justify the means" type thing, but the same system used to lock up criminals now will be used against govt opposition in the future especially as the economic tide continues to turn for the worse

[full fossil]

wrong

[polar fern]

Anyone who is in jail has been failed by the society that put them there

[bold brook]

these aren't people who like, had a bag of ganja or something, these are people who are ruthless murderers

[graceful mortar]

No but it could fix all of your roads for free. Hides /T

[warm dust]

Idk fascism is just fast government. Autocracy generally passes reforms a lot quicker than most democratic governments

[olive stump]

That being said @bold brook - I am speculating forward quite a bit with that opinion

[full fossil]

yes its society's fault that this man murdered a homeless woman

[polar fern]

@warm dust yikes man

[warm dust]

Democracy has too much infighting for true progression. That being said I enjoy democracy

[desert ivy]

I mean yeah, it's going to be abused. But what is a fact is that El Salvadorians are happier than ever

[graceful mortar]

Guys guys guys.

We all know the solution to the drug issue.

But at least in the United States the taxpayers are not interested in paying for it.

[raw cipher]

Progress is great when there is competition

[warm dust]

Wow assuming I am a man

[polar fern]

The problem is not democracy. The problem is allowing money etc to influence things.

I’m not assuming shit, it’s a figure of speech get over it

[warm dust]

I am offended and should ping the mods for it

[polar fern]

A true proper democracy with full accountability has never existed. However, it could probably exist not in my lifetime tho

[full fossil]

dont do a transit

[polar fern]

Whatever man.

[graceful mortar]

@full fossil not trolling. Transit touched on it but then in classic Transit form took a hard right.

[warm dust]

My feeling are very hurt I'm not sure how I'm going to go to sleep tonight

[bold brook]

sure, it's definitely something to be concerned about. my friend when we were there was telling me about some cousin of his when he had last lived there, they were very close - and he apparently has tattoos (not gang tattoos, but he has like partial sleeve tattoos, mostly stuff he got in the US actually), and said cousin had an encounter with the police on the beach when they were convinced he might've been a gang member and they were wanting to arrest him. luckily in that case it didn't happen but i am sure there are situations where it does happen, and hopefully there are some kinds of safeguards put in place, idk too much about their domestic political structure tbh

[polar fern]

Sounds like a skill issue

[warm dust]

How

[bold brook]

wouldn't "true" democracy be basically akin to chaos, in many regards?

[full fossil]

mob rule

[bold brook]

like, mob rule, more or less

[graceful mortar]

You mean without the electoral college?

[full fossil]

"true" and "full" anything is always bad

[warm dust]

There would be so much arson

[polar fern]

True democracy would not be chaos.

[warm dust]

Why

[chrome vector]

https://tenor.com/view/jameson-spiderman-spiderjameson-gif-22813080

[olive stump]

I've seen a decent amount of reporting of a lot of false arrests without trial, so hearing about that doesn't surprise me at all. I'd like to be proven wrong here but there's definitely a pattern here with autocracies and it's hard to not see El Salvador as an autocracy atm.

[rare spindle]

I'd settle for "Functional"...

[polar fern]

I’m confused as to why anyone would think that there would be any type of chaos

[chrome vector]

Guys, I'm Spider-Man

[warm dust]

People are too angry for true nice democracy

[full fossil]

mob rule

[olive stump]

A populist autocracy, but still an autocracy

[desert ivy]

True democracy is the majority taking everything from minorities and is fair because it was submitted to a vote.

[bold brook]

i get a lot of shit from people i know for defending the EC but the idea of it no longer being part of our system concerns me for what could come in the future

[rough socket]

Let's go with cyberdemocracy

Everything is a referendum made on the net

[polar fern]

people are angry because they feel left out and ignored

[vapid cypress]

I have finally moved out

[bold brook]

we can use blockchain voting

[graceful mortar]

My biggest issue with the electoral college is when the electorial college votes don't align with the popular votes.

[thin vigil]

Breadocracy

[polar fern]

@vapid cypress moved out of bread?! 😨

[warm dust]

People get angry for a lot less than that

[tranquil nimbus]

There was an episode like that on The Orville. Everything was decided based on updoots.

[desert ivy]

What we really need is a system where all decisions are approved by me

[thin vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-gif-9684109

[full fossil]

no ME

[vapid cypress]

Time for me to make my own dough 😔

[warm dust]

I guarantee a politician has voted against or for a bill because someone they didn't like voted the opposite way

[rough socket]

Just make an AI that thinks for us

[graceful mortar]

And welcome to the United States political system and why nothing ever gets done.

[chrome vector]

https://tenor.com/view/pillsbury-doughboy-pillsbury-shades-sunglasses-cool-gif-22258477

[warm dust]

Do you read books

[rough socket]

I guarantee every politician vote because there will be some money involved down the line

[polar fern]

@graceful mortar the electoral college is not anywhere in the US constitution

[desert ivy]

I'm clearly the person with the most balanced takes on this Discord.

[full fossil]

idk why u think thats just the usa

[graceful mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/baymax-poke-self-big-hero6-gif-8993677

[full fossil]

no I AM

[chrome vector]

thats the dough man

[graceful mortar]

I never said that it was or wasn't . in fact I never mentioned the Constitution at all.

[warm dust]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28954189-scythe#CommunityReviews this book has a lot of that

[polar fern]

@graceful mortar right I was simply highlighting the fact

[desert ivy]

You aren't a Floatplane subscriber. Plebs can't rule. I vote me. Upvote to vote me

[full fossil]

L

vote for me ;3

[warm dust]

Ratio

[chrome vector]

https://tenor.com/view/hug-me-ghostbusters-afterlife-ghost-marshmallow-give-me-a-hug-gif-23724664

[bold brook]

yeah, in certain places where you have the ability to make changes via referenda and similar mechanisms, is a decent middle ground. the people who talk about stuff like having a "convention of states" to amend the constitution, though, they are basically chasing a pipe dream...it'll never happen due to the very difficult (basically impossible, in this day and age with our present levels of political partisanship) requirements necessary to reach in order to have any proposed amendments actually be ratified and become constitutional law

[polar fern]

If only propaganda & misinformation was actually illegal, instead of encouraged

[chrome vector]

I vote that we ban voting and install Chat GPT to be our ai overlord

[thin vigil]

Assholes shouldn't rule either though

[bold brook]

who determines what is "misinformation"

that's a super dangerous road to go down

[graceful mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/baking-cake-bake-lilo-and-stitch-stitch-gif-4802552

[full fossil]

and the government gets to decide what propaganda and misinformation is.. sounds like a great system

[polar fern]

Something that is not factually true being sold as factually true is misinformation. No one “decides” this it’s reality versus fiction.

[desert ivy]

In my country public referendums are used to make the dumbest decisions and then justify them saying is what the people wanted it. The same happened in Brexit.

[full fossil]

The judge (government) does, actually.

[chrome vector]

HOLY SHIT THATS A BIG LOAF

[polar fern]

like, if you can’t figure out fact versus fantasy, then maybe you should head to the local library.

[graceful mortar]

Some say that he's the best baker that's ever baked...All we know is.. He's called stitch!

[chrome vector]

https://tenor.com/view/michelin-kadir-aga-gif-19196759

[bold brook]

heh i was going ask if it was the uk before i finished reading the sentence

[full fossil]

if you thinnk you know anything for a fact when it comes to politics, you're doing it wrong

question everything

[polar fern]

Bibendum intensifies

[desert ivy]

Everyone claims their opinions are facts.

[full fossil]

exactly

[bold brook]

if someone is saying something that is patently untrue - and not merely an opinion, but an objectively proven lie, you can always call them out for lying and present the correct information along with substantiating evidence/citations

[graceful mortar]

Some do, thankfully!

https://youtu.be/vOftaNdqIUk?si=ZCYOb9c0k620BWUo

[chrome vector]

[full fossil]

i should be allowed to say whatever iwant

[whole swallow]

why does this fact opinion convo feel like some deja vu bs

[polar fern]

Katie porter moment

[whole swallow]

is public chat just a bunch of arguing AIs

[full fossil]

yes

[tranquil nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/big-lebowski-the-dude-your-opinion-gif-4476328

[bold brook]

criminalizing "misinformation" especially when most people use it in terms of chastising others' opinions would lead to the death of the first amendment

[chrome vector]

I don't like the tire man anymore

[polar fern]

@chrome vector 🤣

[full fossil]

criminalizing information in any form is death of the first amendmen

[graceful mortar]

I'm still shocked nobody went to jail in 2008... "We only pursue cases at the department of Justice when we know that we can win without a doubt"

Ummm what??

[harsh quartz]

No, there are secrets that sometimes need to be kept

[graceful mortar]

The formula for heavy water.

[bold brook]

unreal financial criminality often goes unpunished, sadly

[full fossil]

people being arrested for leaking classified information is considered a first amendment violation but it is also treason

of course, some exceptions must be made

[graceful mortar]

It was so upsetting though because we put people in jail for the savings and loan crisis.

[tranquil nimbus]

I love you, public chat, but you crazy.

[desert ivy]

People literally wanted to cancel everyone who didn't publicly support mask usage or take vaccines. Like ok it's dumb. But since when that's illegal.

[harsh quartz]

Yes, because the treason law overrides the first amendment

[bold brook]

yeah, they are in the process of still trying to extradite julian assange right now for the crime of...being a reporter

kind of scary that more people in the us media who claim to be journalists havent been more vocal, at least most of them

[graceful mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/you-acting-cray-cray-youre-crazy-thats-crazy-insane-sausage-party-gif-17060521

[polar fern]

Michelin started by making bicycle tires

[bold brook]

given that if the government is able to successfully make their argument in court, idk how any of them will be successful in keeping sources protected and doing investigative reporting in the future that's reliant upon whistleblowers and leaked information

[graceful mortar]

Ehh.. based on the information we had at that time attempted assault with a deadly weapon comes to mind. (Masks)

[vapid zephyr]

What?

[graceful mortar]

@harsh quartz because we were told that it was super dangerous virus that it had the ability to wipe out all of human kind etc.

We're told that it had an extremely high mortality rate.

[polar fern]

In fact, the modern idea of properly engineered road networks was promoted by cyclists.

[bold brook]

people wanted to restrict those who chose not to get a certain medical procedure from being able to get healthcare, among other things. at least there were many who were advocating for it. a lot of people kind of lost their minds over the last few years tbh in some ways.

[harsh quartz]

The fuck does that have to do with assault?

[thin vigil]

Support for anti-mask and anti-vaxxers isn't where I saw public chat going this morning. This place really is crazy

[elfin solar]

And the conspiracy nut is off again.

[harsh quartz]

I’ve stopped back in every hour or two and this chat has gotten worse every time I’ve come back

[polar fern]

@graceful mortar the actual numbers of people who died from Covid is far higher than current official documentation actually accounts for.

[vapid zephyr]

Because you know that.. why exactly again?

[polar fern]

Because I pay attention to things.

[harsh quartz]

Trust me bro my sisters a nurse

[vapid zephyr]

So you're being psychic again and you know shit governments don't

[full fossil]

trust me bro my wife is a doctor

[graceful mortar]

Because the mask is to stop you from spreading to others. Again they information that we were given at the time by our government that argument could be made.

It's the same way that if somebody decides to sleep with you without disclosing that they have an active HIV infection they will be charged with a crime.

[bold brook]

they were claiming it at a 3.1% mortality rate, i was just watching a supercut video of this recently...which is such a ridiculously inflated number compared to reality

[harsh quartz]

This is actually the dumbest argument I’ve heard in a long time

[graceful mortar]

Awesome that you have that level of information.

I wasn't really trying to have this kind of conversation.

I just wanted to point out what LOME had said.

[polar fern]

The numbers out of Hubei province alone are something like 12 times more than the official numbers. All you have to do is look at where soil is disturbed and other statistical figures that can’t really be hidden.

[bold brook]

they changed that in california actually, no longer a crime (the hiv thing)

[vapid zephyr]

Right
But there were still nobody that were charged with 'assault with a deadly weapon' just because they took their mask off

Those people deliberately coughed and spit at people when they knew they had Covid- there were plenty of those cases happening in the UK

[graceful mortar]

Which part that the mask stops your area of spread? Or something else

[vapid zephyr]

Okay psychic

[graceful mortar]

Oh really, That's actually kind of surprising.

[polar fern]

Psychic?

[harsh quartz]

Yep the brain hemorrhage is coming back

[empty pollen]

[thin vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-dance-bread-dance-weird-gif-25380371

[vapid zephyr]

Either you put out sources or this isn't happening

[polar fern]

All you need to know is logistical facts and follow the numbers there is nothing psychic about it

[bold brook]

yah i dont get it either tbh

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/jake-sad-bread-stress-eating-gif-14630049

[vapid zephyr]

And I mean actual links, not your hearsay bullshit you usually pull

[thin vigil]

Public chat made bread sad

[harsh quartz]

It’s California, what’s to get?

[full fossil]

bread

[thin vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/loof-and-timmy-loof-sad-disappointed-loaf-gif-14438218

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/iida-kotori-sweetness-and-lightning-amaama-to-inazuma-eating-crying-gif-18527122

[polar fern]

Just because I know something that you don’t, does not mean I have to prove it to you. That’s not how information works.

[full fossil]

bread

[graceful mortar]

Okay. Again like I told Transit I wasn't really trying to have this kind of highly emotional conversation.

But I can tell you if somebody spit on me I don't think it would have gone well for them especially if they were stating I have COVID.

[full fossil]

that is exactly how information works

everything you say is invalid if you cant prove it

[polar fern]

I am not charged or emotional at all, in fact, I am falling in the hell asleep

[vapid zephyr]

Nope, it's a misdemeanor now, assuming you do it purposefully

[harsh quartz]

Transit always loves to make dumb claims and then refuse to back them up with evidence, don’t waste time on the argument, they’re just saying shit to rile you up

[vapid zephyr]

Emotional? lmfao

[elfin solar]

No one was spitting on people because they had covid

[polar fern]

I don’t need to prove shit to anyone, that’s your problem if you don’t believe me.

[vapid zephyr]

Yes there were

[graceful mortar]

So you don't think surgeons wear masks to protect the patient??? 🧐

See now we're not talking about a controversial topic.

Now we're talking about protection procedures.

[polar fern]

if you want me to put together a presentation, you can pay me, but you probably won’t do that

[harsh quartz]

No, only YOU are on the fucking controversial topic

[elfin solar]

Where? Link as I don't remember people spitting on people for having covid

[graceful mortar]

For some not for me.

[vapid zephyr]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/12/uk-rail-worker-dies-coronavirus-spat-belly-mujinga This is most certainly only the most famous case

[vapid zephyr]

No, BEING spit on no

[polar fern]

your doubt and ignorance is not more than my facts.

[full fossil]

woah he provided a source @polar fern you should try that

[graceful mortar]

Okay cool I thought you were saying Masks didn't serve a purpose and I was like WOAHHHH lol.

[harsh quartz]

You have made this magical fuckin mage hand assisted leap of logic to somehow reach the assumption that I’m saying masks down work, I never said this or anything like this is and you are accusing me of starting arguments, fuck off good sir

[vapid zephyr]

I meant people that had covid spat on people fully knowing they had covid, not vice versa

[polar fern]

You know that’s not the primary way it spreads.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/triggered-bread-gif-14621749

[full fossil]

bread

[desert ivy]

Masks acted like the opposite of a MAGA hat for some people. I don't like Trump but man, people pretending it's not politicized drives me crazy.

[bold brook]

primarily spreads through people in close contact with one another, inside of homes and other enclosed living environments, who have prolonged exposure to others

[elfin solar]

Ah a person with covid spat at someone. This isn't what Kool was saying. That was my confusion

[desert ivy]

Like this dude seriously said talking without a mask used to be Assault.

[polar fern]

I could post a bunch of links and articles and scientific studies, but I’m not going to because I’m not being paid to educate a bunch of people who are more interested in posting their opinions than actually learning about facts.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/toast-space-cat-laser-gif-7817737

[full fossil]

this sounds like copium

[bold brook]

~fancy~

[polar fern]

It’s pretty wild to me that people could see the use of personal protective equipment as some sort of political statement.

[graceful mortar]

My apologies.

A lot of people weren't actually responding to comments they were just posting comments

and I missed that Transit had said something obscure right before your comment about brain hemorrhaging I thought it was towards my comments.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/baguette-cat-minecraft-meme-funny-gif-18560351

[bold brook]

certain groups of people absolutely made it into a political argument, just like our society does with pretty much everything of note nowadays

[desert ivy]

Spitting on people was illegal regardless mask existing or not.

[bold brook]

each "side" egged on by their cheerleaders in the media and online

[vapid zephyr]

THEN DO IT
You're making yourself look like a massive moron by pulling some bullshit without a single source, this is exactly how conspiracy stories are made

[vapid zephyr]

Duh, that wasn't the point

[polar fern]

I like, yeah, let’s just not wear eye protection because of a political ideology. Makes total sense. 🤦‍♂️

[harsh quartz]

Cool, so if it’s political, why’s it being discussed here?

[graceful mortar]

Wait that's exactly what I was saying. Because that's what he was saying was occurring.

[rough socket]

Yeah ping mods it's annoying

[polar fern]

@vapid zephyr do you understand my knowledge is worth something and you ignoring it is worth nothing? I’m not going to give you something because you refuse to offer anything. That is not how information works.

[rough socket]

Please talk about how Linux is better than windows

[bold brook]

i havent seen anyone discussing politics, it's more a comment on the meta-narratives

[full fossil]

we arent ignoring it.. you're just refusing to prove it

[desert ivy]

The issue was forcing people to behave a way they dislike. The government can't be allowed to do that.

[polar fern]

I guess I should just drive on the wrong side of the road, because freedumb

[vapid zephyr]

YOU are trying to say some bullshit and spread misinformation and then refuse to prove anything

All things considered, you are a bullshit conspiracy theorist

[thin vigil]

That is a governments sole reason for existance

[bold brook]

easily done. those too scared to take the plunge should at least give WSL (windows subsystem for linux) a try, it's quite great

[rough socket]

This is so true, because otherwise it would be anarchy

[desert ivy]

Telling people what to wear?

[rough socket]

Wsl is great, but it won't offer the Linux desktop experience

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/swedish-chef-baking-muppet-gif-15620659

[thin vigil]

Telling people how to behave, even if it's something they don't like.

And are you not aware of the law against indecent exposure?

[polar fern]

Growing up I never thought I would see the day when public health and safety was something that was mocked and made political. My brain still can’t quite wrap itself around that one.

[bold brook]

not entirely, though you can run graphical apps and even a full desktop environment through something like VxCSRV, x410, etc.

[vapid zephyr]

Who cares about your health, you stated the death toll is much higher than governments report, you better prove it

To be clear, I believe you in this
That doesn't mean it's true

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/food-processing-gif-23829911

[polar fern]

I better prove it? You don’t understand how information works that’s pretty clear.

[graceful mortar]

Yes when it affects public health and has the ability to quite literally kill people because it will tie up the health system dealing with COVID symptoms

meanwhile people that are having heart attacks and strokes are dying in ambulances.

Signed the person who had a family member nearly die because the wait in an ambulance at the ER of the local hospital was 26 hours.... They had to bring freaking fuel to the ambulances....

[rough socket]

I saw that but never tried running a full fledged windows manager for example

Still probably feels really hacky vs a real Linux install I guess

[full fossil]

i guess we should just believe you without any proof, cuz thats a great way to take in information

[desert ivy]

Yeah, they are different, and at those times you could gather in your business naked, only if you were wearing a mask.

[vapid zephyr]

Yes, you better fucking prove it by citing sources
Otherwise you're just a dangerous individual that spreads misinformation to instir fear into people

[harsh quartz]

Ngl I don’t fully understand the hate behind windows

[bold brook]

it's actually not that bad honestly, sure it's not the same but it's definitely not that bad and i would prefer it over something like a virtual machine most of the time

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/peanutbutterandjelly-pbandj-pbjday-sandwiches-cats-gif-3990238

[bold brook]

but i'm also pretty comfortable with using linux itself, so

[vapid zephyr]

If you do it on purpose doesn't even matter, the result of your actions stays the same

[bold brook]

been working on my own totally unnecessary distro lol

[rough socket]

I don't hate it
I just love Linux more
It's not like American bread which i hate vs my french bread

[polar fern]

@graceful mortar yeah. My best friend is a ultrasound technician, and she had to put on one of those biohazard spacesuits and go into ambulances to do portable ultrasounds to see if people could even be saved based on the condition of their lungs like 12 hours a day for months.

[graceful mortar]

Anywho. Anybody seen any really cool uses of AI and their workplaces recently.

Ideally implementations of AI that don't eliminate a bunch of jobs

[desert ivy]

That's on COVID-19 and your family member for going outside. Not on the people that chose to take that risk for themselves.

[harsh quartz]

Aight imma fight over this fuckin heresy

[thin vigil]

American bread

I believe you mean cake

[bold brook]

which isn't a real distro just a slapped together one that i am taking different cool parts from other ones and various pre-installed programs, settings, and a killer desktop environment with all of the various add-ons and bells and whistles/doodads pre-configured and working out of the box

[chrome vector]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-uncle-ben-why-grocery-cry-gif-14497316

[harsh quartz]

Anything being French makes it objectively worse

[chrome vector]

[graceful mortar]

It became everybody else's problem when they refused to simply succumb to the consequences of their own decisions in their homes peacefully and instead seeked medical care.
/End

[vapid zephyr]

Mf wants to put a fucking pricetag on his 'information', what a joke lmfao

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/jeremy-clarkson-top-gear-the-grand-tour-grand-tour-french-gif-13916098

[rough socket]

I don't know once I went to America hosted in a family there and they bought me "bread" cuz I'm french and it was so freaking awful I didn't eat it
They didn't like that because it was apparently super expensive and I was like "you call that bread ? I call this toilet paper"

[median idol]

[graceful mortar]

AI! Anybody recently used AI to make their jobs substantially more productive?

[chrome vector]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-throw-spider-man-peter-parker-andrew-garfield-spider-man-no-way-home-gif-25317917

I wish someone would throw bread at me

[graceful mortar]

The community manager approves this message

[harsh quartz]

Pay someone behind Walmart to do it

[polar fern]

It all really comes down to one question: do you want to live in a stable society? Well, guess what you’re a part of the society.

[rough socket]

I've seen ai so badly implemented that it created more job than what it was supposed to automate but the company still ends up making money out of it because they sell it for an even higher price

[tranquil nimbus]

I asked chatgpt how to do something in Excel, and it answered very well. But the solution was very CPU intensive. I asked for one which used leas cycles and it actually gave a different answer, which worked alarmingly well.

[desert ivy]

Ah yeah in the name of safety let's get rid of civil liberties like preventing people from doing their jobs while also charging them Taxes and having them pay rent, etc.

[graceful mortar]

Damn AI told you that? Because we are talking about AI

[graceful mortar]

That's crazy! are you talking about like a software as a service kind of thing?

[harsh quartz]

Yay politiks in the bread server, always fun to have politiks

[full fossil]

bread

[rough socket]

One guy asked chatgpt to make a script for him then asked me to correct this specific script
I was like "uh no?"

[graceful mortar]

Hey man it's getting better every time. I'm sure the paywalls will become quite substantial as it matures.

[full fossil]

We are 🍞

[desert ivy]

They didn't like it because that's an asshole way to behave.

[polar fern]

@graceful mortar I think it’s actually hilarious that people today are talking about artificial intelligence when people in the 1980s were talking about artificial intelligence and there still is actually no artificial intelligence. Just complex modelling and algorithmic shit. Next we’re gonna talk about smart homes of the future from the 1950s.

[harsh quartz]

Yeah, he’s French, you expect anything else?

[graceful mortar]

Kk, position noted. What about AI

[chrome vector]

https://tenor.com/view/loof-and-timmy-batman-bat-bread-batloof-loof-gif-14436618

[full fossil]

bread

[chrome vector]

good thing batman has his trusty batloaf

[graceful mortar]

Wait so he put no effort in whatsoever and then shoveled it off to somebody else to correct the errors?? Brah 🤦

[harsh quartz]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/375436621450969089/1141553362626678858/image0.gif

[desert ivy]

I support unrestricted AI usage until it becomes a big problem.

[harsh quartz]

“Until it becomes a problem, like that T2 walking our direction”

[polar fern]

That’s like saying you support no speed limit on any roads until it becomes a problem

[rough socket]

Yeah some kind of ai that should automate level 1 it stuff
The reality is there is no AI behind, and it's litteraly ansible but 1550000x worse, not stable and a freaking pain to develop any kind of "job" with it
What people ended up doing is develop a generic "ai job" that just launches ansible playbooks lmao
And we are required to use this shite cuz it's sold like 1M€ to the client

[bold brook]

would love to have the time/manpower to build out the platform i have envisioned/designed to help speed up the production of original video content by people, for eventual release on youtube or elsewhere...what's missing IMHO is that there's a ton of existing material like various video clips/scenes/dialogue portions, different characters engaging in activities or saying things on screen, etc. that, if we could properly categorize and tag the footage with necessary metadata (i.e. actor named X is on screen from timestamp 1 to timestamp 2, in showname (A), (description of what character is doing), (names of other characters on screen), (transcription of dialogue spoken, could be done using existing AI tools to transcribe it), etc.)

basically the ultimate goal would be is to create a giant vector database that would enable creators to simply type to search and find the absolute BEST B-roll footage or material to use for their content...with the hope of one day having licensing rights built in somehow

[desert ivy]

Yeah. Like I'd rather have a problem with AI that have it's progress be hampered with overregulation because people might think it will affect their jobs.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/carter-subway-sandwich-gif-20585647

[full fossil]

just unplug it lol

[rough socket]

Exactly
Still it's my job to do the scripts and not his, so I did it, but from scratch, and told him to never ask me to correct a script made from chatgpt again

[full fossil]

just deploy an EMP

[polar fern]

The other issue with these algorithmic models is that they are stealing people’s work. From Artists to authors are being ripped off from their intellectual property, and there is literally zero accountability or compensation.

[harsh quartz]

Your just full of really good takes today aren’t you?

[graceful mortar]

https://youtu.be/sZgDhktjWPs?si=RFcc-MtJZ9eXMgUg

[bold brook]

but if you are interested in AI stuff you would probably like some of the different twitter spaces and chats i have been taking part in recently, and some of the friends ive made via that...

one of the people who i have particularly found insightful is the guy who created the software "notion" (i am sure some of you have heard of it/use it), he's often in there and has some interesting takes on AI stuff

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-bread-make-it-rain-party-animated-gif-22475466

[bold brook]

off-topic, but i love the retro-futurism aesthetic

[desert ivy]

My takes are practically facts. People dislike them because reality is ugly

[graceful mortar]

That's amazing. I too wish you had time!

[harsh quartz]

You sure do voice your “facts” as opinionated as possible, huh

[graceful mortar]

Like most of the internet lol?

[harsh quartz]

Tbf what’s the point of having artists if an ai can make something just as good and faster?

[graceful mortar]

Right! I loved I think it was fridge of the Future or something like that and it was like wait why don't we have things like that....

That I realize Samsung totally has a model that's kind of like that It's just very expensive 🤣🤣🤣

[bold brook]

much of the AI art stuff now though kind of sucks, if you're doing some super dialed-in stable diffusion work with tinkering with every little input and testing it nonstop, etc. you can come up with some pretty cool stuff, but in my opinion a lot of the AI "artwork" feels derivative

like that's not to say that some of it isnt impressive, it can be sure

[desert ivy]

The way we work is that we take other people's work study it and create our own. It's really not that different from an AI. Like I don't see how additional legislation is required besides maybe add a bit of enforceability and provisions current in Copyright.

[polar fern]

Uh

[harsh quartz]

Isn’t most artwork derivative at this point? Like the idea that there are no longer any original thoughts by this point?

[graceful mortar]

THIS ONE!

https://youtu.be/hnfWkB60WRE?si=ggfttDydMudAi7tF

[polar fern]

You also said that the country that you went to was much better because everyone was in prison, right?

[tranquil nimbus]

AI needs to be trained on something. It doesn't create out of thin air, it relies on its dataset. Furthermore, if eventually everything will use the same dataset with no new blood entering the gene pool, you'll see incredibly homogeneous art.

[graceful mortar]

Like music lol.

[polar fern]

It’s not artificial intelligence, it’s just a bunch of algorithms

People really need to move beyond this weird fixation on that term

[desert ivy]

Talking about me? No, but El Salvador is factually better now than it was before it's current president.

[harsh quartz]

But it’s already trained on millions of datapoints, and as it creates more it’s creating new datapoints, it’s fairly close to the point of a self sustaining model

[bold brook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfXn_ecH5Rw - like this "every melody has been copyrighted, and they're all on this hard drive"

[tranquil nimbus]

It's like cloning a clone. There's a point of diminishing returns.

[harsh quartz]

That depends on what cloning theory you go off of

[tranquil nimbus]

The one that has diminishing returns.

[polar fern]

https://youtu.be/FgXYzF5-Yiw?si=3U7UE6sv6Ox2J4WM

[bold brook]

not "everyone", but violent gang members who were murdering people indiscriminately and terrorizing the local population, extorting them, etc.... yes, and it was much better. not just my opinion either but that of the people who actually live there as well as those who are from there and had to move away because it was so violent.

not sure why you're so hung up on that though

[harsh quartz]

For monetary purposes, you don’t need exotic artwork, for stock images and whatnot you already have plenty. For entertainment purposes, homogenous isn’t really that much of an issue

[bold brook]

when you live in a country where it's the most dangerous place on earth where more people are getting murdered than anywhere else, and someone comes into office and does something about it because people are so desperate for the killing to stop -- then your opinion on this issue might hold some weight

[polar fern]

It’s pretty interesting to me how people think that gang members are not human and just materialise out of nowhere for no reason, and are just big bad people

[graceful mortar]

WTF we all just proved we have the capability to move on... Then THIS?? Really and you are the one always shouting for a mod....

[tranquil nimbus]

That much is true. But that's not what people complain about normally. I really don't care if Getty Images gets shafted.

[polar fern]

I don’t really care, sorry your position on it is frankly horrifying

[bold brook]

personal responsibility matters, otherwise you just go around in circles

you clearly do care you keep bringing it up

and i never said that gang members are not human. they are just shitty humans.

not all people are equal, that is a fact.

[polar fern]

You can talk about personal responsibility all you want, but that’s not the only factor that plays in the things - not by a long shot.

[graceful mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/time-out-time-out-bro-stop-hold-up-spider-man-gif-25863096

[bold brook]

no one forced them to murder people.

[polar fern]

You’re dehumanising people by minimising them to a concept

[harsh quartz]

But visual artistry is a fairly low income industry, what little income there is is mostly in stock images and things like that, which the AI can handle easily, the other side of the coin will be extremely exotic or special art, which will only go up in value as the AI reaches more of the industry

[bold brook]

you're taking away agency from people by thinking they don't have the mental fortitude to do their own thinking

[harsh quartz]

When those people decide to break the law, they face the consequences of that law, boohoo

[bold brook]

"oh they are just poor people from a country in latin america, they must be helpless and it's not their fault if they are murdering people" is basically how you come across

[quaint venture]

It’s not everything but it sure is a whole lot of it

[bold brook]

it's incredibly patronizing

[polar fern]

It’s not about “do their own thinking” you totally don’t understand, but that’s part of the problem in today’s society. People want to minimise everything to simple concepts & ignore how messy and complicated people are.

[harsh quartz]

Did those people break the local laws?

[graceful mortar]

We almost made it 20 minutes! Sooo close 😢

[tranquil nimbus]

Even if that's the case, it's doesn't mean independent or 'exotic' artists should have their works used without permission, even for algorithm training purposes. And there's an argument to be made that the more exotic and out there works of art are what evolves the artform and in a sense, society in general.

[polar fern]

Doesn’t matter, it’s not that simple, and you should know better than to frame it that way

[harsh quartz]

It does matter

[polar fern]

No, it is not

Your argument is not in good faith therefore it does not matter

[harsh quartz]

So whether people break the law doesn’t matter when it comes to putting them in jail?

[quaint venture]

Love that line of thinking lol

[polar fern]

Again, your argument is not in good faith. Therefore it holds no relevance.

Giving agency to arguments made in bad faith as part of the problem

[harsh quartz]

No, your dismissing my valid argument by saying it’s in bad faith, which is incredibly dumb

[polar fern]

I am not dismissing anything valid

[rough socket]

And you have no argument besides saying some strange convoluted things without any meaning behind it

[harsh quartz]

You love to do these one sided arguments and always dismiss the other side, I guess you just enjoy this

[bold brook]

dont care how "messy and complicated" someone is, if they decide to blow some innocent woman's brains out, they deserve to be in prison, at the very least. people can enjoy their right to be as messy and/or complicated as they want to be....right up until they decide to commit a crime that ends someone else's lives or imposes on said other person's personal rights/freedoms

[polar fern]

Our society is broken and blaming individuals for the brokenness is pretty screwed up.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/toadkingstudios-angry-toaster-noises-dj-twisted-toaster-toast-hopping-mad-gif-19484461

[desert ivy]

All I know is that if you tattoo your body with Mara gang signs that say you are a murderer and then you get taken to jail because gang membership is illegal you don't get to complain about your human rights.

[quaint venture]

So instead of trying to prove your side you instead think that calling their argument invalid will do the trick?

[rough socket]

I still don't understand what transitbiker is trying to say besides society is bad therefore you are bad, I am bad, we are bad and everything we say is flawed

[polar fern]

Yes, everything is definitely totally black and white and clear-cut. No one ever has any reasons for doing things that are illegal ever for any reason ever.

[bold brook]

so what, just let the criminals run free because "society is broken"? there have been murderrs and tyrants in all of human history going back as far as written history and earlier...this is nothing new.

[harsh quartz]

It’s what they always do every time they start an argument, they never back up their own side, they only ever try to degrade the other persons argument till they give up or get irritated

[bold brook]

sorry, but i don't see any reasons where you can possibly rationalize the murder of another person if not in self defense

[harsh quartz]

I have never once seen transit back up their case with facts

[polar fern]

It’s pretty scary, how much you folks seem to be embracing fascism. What if you and your family were seen to be the problem and tossed in jail? But no, you can’t think that way they are wrong and you are right and there’s no questioning it.

[rough socket]

Society will always be broken because we are broken
So deal with it and find patchworks to make it somehow work

[bold brook]

lmao ah there it is "fascism"

[harsh quartz]

Oh boy that’s a bad fuckin take too

[quaint venture]

I mean I probably agree with transit more then I do you but I think just saying your argument is invalid is pretty dumb

[bold brook]

you have a warped understanding of what fascism is if you think that enforcing murder laws = fascism

[quaint venture]

Clown alert

[desert ivy]

But you have trouble calling the White white and have no trouble calling the black. Like what happened in El Salvador helped millions but you sound more concerned about the gang members that haven't gotten their trial.

[harsh quartz]

And I’m fine with having a discussion over that but this dude always says something inflammatory then says “ I’m not gonna give sources for you children your not worth my time” and just keeps saying that

[polar fern]

I don’t care what your opinion is on it it’s still a fucked up situation. Just because you like the result does not mean that the means is the right way to do things.

[bold brook]

that's pretty easy to avoid -- don't be a murdering gangster and don't raise your family to do the same thing

[polar fern]

And the fact that this concept is lost on you is deeply concerning

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-cat-dance-gif-25651729

[desert ivy]

You don't like the result?

[bold brook]

and what do you suggest the alternative be, exactly? because cleaerly what they have tried in the past was not working, and this is very, very obviously working

[rough socket]

Lmao thinking that murderers should go in jail = fascism

[quaint venture]

I can agree with that

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/gingerbread-man-ginerbread-jschlatt-day-n-night-cursed-gif-24003618

[polar fern]

Yes, I’m definitely the bad guy for advocating human rights. JFC

[desert ivy]

See the logical and moral is complex and it's not that simple so I'm correct but I will not explain how

[bold brook]

and who are you to say that the result is not good? who wouldn't like the result? you don't even LIVE in the country and have never even VISITED. the people who LIVE THERE AND HAVE TO DEAL WITH THESE CRIMINALS MURDERING THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS, DESTROYING THEIR LIVES....they are happy that these people are no longer preying upon them. but you, privileged westerner from the comfort of your own home, don't like it and call it fascism.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/food-dinner-lunch-eat-feed-gif-17437071

[desert ivy]

Human rights of gang members over the rights of the populace.