public-chat

[full fossil]

Japan has those tiny apartments for $100/mo, I wish we had stuff like that

[elder ridge]

unexpected item in bagging area

[manic edge]

solving the housing crisis by hiding it in buildings

[thin fjord]

homeless shelters

[manic edge]

no, those have walls.

[full fossil]

my spotify is cursed

[graceful mortar]

What bailout? You mean soft banks massive cash injections?

[full fossil]

tracks keep moving around

[frank bridge]

I'm going to need cubicle walls at least stop my kids seeing the neighbours injecting fentanil.

[thin fjord]

you dont mean simply between rooms? like the building is just a umbrella?

[full fossil]

You’re gonna get chat nuked

[manic edge]

that'll be an extra 200 dollars a month

[austere mulch]

At least where I live, most of the office spaces in the downtown core are essentially empty, it would cost an arm and a leg to be able to get it rezoned into residential development where it currently is. Sweage infrastructure is hella expensive to just convert.

[manic edge]

oh, between rooms

though removing the walls could save on maintenance..

[graceful mortar]

I mean.... If you didn't want to rebuild the whole thing you could turn offices into small studio apartments. And then on the main core of the building where the utilities are located you can set up shower rooms and toilets.

The only issue is you're going to need a cleaning staff in order to make sure that it stays hygienic.

Or you simply remind everybody that it's a community bathrooms and that everybody should do their part.

Which of course means if you want to clean bathroom you'll have to go in there with your cleaning supplies and clean it first before using it.

[full fossil]

Zoning is the USs biggest housing issue tbh

[thin fjord]

hire janitors on the governments dollar

[manic edge]

how many people are trained in hazmat removal?

[full fossil]

That and foreign entities

[full fossil]

ME (actually)!

[manic edge]

you're hired!

[full fossil]

community bathrooms... would just end up looking like a McDonalds bathroom

Pass

[frank bridge]

Different fire regs for higher continual occupancy. People need to have an external window etc.

[gleaming compass]

Residential has very different parking requirements than office does

[graceful mortar]

If you limit the number of bathrooms and do the community bathroom concept like I listed below

you wouldn't have to do the massive sewer upgrades because you already have commercial sewer lines.

Think schools.

[manic edge]

please clean all the bathrooms . it's a 50 floor building so 50 bathrooms should be fine for you, right?

[full fossil]

Hell naw

[manic edge]

also, please do that in 6 hours.

[full fossil]

I’ll eat it

[gleaming compass]

just design the bathrooms to be self-cleaning :P

[graceful mortar]

Won't quite work like that unless you want to convert these into government housing projects.

But then they're subject to a large amount of regulations in reviews.

Those regulations will make it effectively impossible for you to do so without at least stripping all the internals of the building.

[manic edge]

oh, and you're paid in IoUs

[pale osprey]

you know this is why i waited to shit at home instead of using the school bathrooms. i found drug baggies and shit in the middle of the floor 1 too many times

[fickle jolt]

Is there a build showcase channel?

[gleaming compass]

TMI

[full fossil]

This idea is great except people are fuckin monsters

[manic edge]

thats too good for the poor people

[graceful mortar]

Eh I'm thinking much more commercial style concept. Floor drain everything covered in waterproof materials and you just take a damn hose to the thing.

Actually they have those COVID era bathrooms where like you push the button and you go in and then when you go out it automatically sprays down all of the stainless steel services and cleans itself.

I mean that genuinely could work!

Look at us solving the US housing problem 💪💪💪💪

[pale osprey]

see my previous message

[austere mulch]

Commcercial sewer lines compared to residential (think apartment complex's) are significantly different, Open concept could probably work but there needs to be some level of permitting for something like this.

[graceful mortar]

In all fairness most of we works properties have parking garages. However there is a loophole for that.

"No on-site parking"

[manic edge]

hmmmm...

how does it do with needles?

[frank bridge]

Our school bathrooms were for smoking cigarettes and beatings. I wasn't into either so I went at home.

[austere mulch]

also I wouldn't want to live in a place like that, some students might absolutely but the market is probably just not there to make it scalable

[manic edge]

I actually witnessed a guy getting a haircut in my college changing room

[graceful mortar]

Put THESE in there https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JBWGEpCXBJk

[full fossil]

i had the stall door in mine kicked off it's hinges while i was in it

[austere mulch]

at that point its halfway to a group home

[manic edge]

neat! now I can double the rent!

[full fossil]

safe to say the mf who did it had the door thrown at him

[graceful mortar]

Well my city has a massive homeless issue and just kicked everybody off of city property that we're living in tents.... Despite many advocates pulling independent studies and seeing that there was no increase of crime in the area.

So if they can do that they can issue temporary waivers departments.

Bear in mind that assumes that they actually care which they don't... Sooo

[manic edge]

grian irl

[graceful mortar]

I mean..... It's better than living on the streets.

[manic edge]

fair enough

[full fossil]

whats stupid i got suspended for a week while the kid who broke the door only got detention like bruh

[manic edge]

probably bc you threw a door at him

[full fossil]

if you did that at a local restaurant you would of been arrested

[full fossil]

yea he broke the door of the bathroom stall i was in

[frank bridge]

I'm not complaining I now quite like cagarettes (even if I gave up) and I think a lot of people could do with being punched in the head at least once

[graceful mortar]

I mean we're talking. An absolute insane amount of square footage. 20,000,000 sq ft!

[austere mulch]

my city has an abandoned hospital that's literally been sitting for the better part of the last 25 years, as much as the community has pushed it to be zoned and renovated to become a homeless shelter shit hasn't happened at all

[thin fjord]

this is a interesting comment out of context

[manic edge]

new yt vid idea just dropped

[manic edge]

speaking from experience, yes.

[pale osprey]

i had that happen to me once and i did it right back to the little fucker and accidentally broke 2 of his teeth when the door hit his face. if it isnt the consequences of your own actions

[austere mulch]

???

[graceful mortar]

So there's a way to force that.

First you have to get an organization that's willing to pay the past due property tax to the city/state.

The city has inevitably imminent domain it.

So the organization will also have to allow the city to maintain all ownership but take responsibility for all operating costs

Here's the kicker.

That organization is also going to have to have deep pockets cuz they're going to have to bring the building back up to code to make it inhabitable.

So that's kind of the issue you need quite a lot of money flowing. Since most homeless organizations are based solely on dominations ultimately there's typically not enough to make it happen.

[full fossil]

i barely hurt the dude if anything if made me afraid of uses bathrooms, i was like 14 at the time

[manic edge]

exploring an abandoned hospital ( gone wrong, gone smexual)

[pale osprey]

gone missing

[manic edge]

gone (redacted by ccp)

[full fossil]

he had slightly bruised arm while i was just given more PTSD to deal with

[austere mulch]

oh to clarify, a construction company technically owns it but it's effectively been abandoned and nobody has done anything with it since 2004, there's armed security there unfortunately

[full fossil]

if that happened now i'd just laugh like the joker

[manic edge]

can you ask nicely?

like to the guards

if you can be let in?

[gleaming compass]

Depending on the age of the hospital, the building may have asbestos that needs to be properily removed

[pale osprey]

i would still have the same reaction if it happened today. nobody fucks with me while im on the can

[manic edge]

I used the proper word for fire reduction and got warshipped.

[frank bridge]

Homeless shelters are a bandaid. It's a mental health and addiction problem. Need to reopen all the state mental hospitals they shut down in every country.

[full fossil]

i'd be a bit shocked but i would just reply with a insane nature to scare em away

[graceful mortar]

Actually I just solved it.

You don't market it as a house, or even a dwelling.

You market it as a 'rest location'.

The concept would be this is the area that you go to solely to get some shut eye.

No kitchens

Will obviously have bathrooms for sanitation reasons. I highly suggest the full stainless steel self-cleaning variety.

You market a product that is designed exclusively to not be regulated like housing.

You charge $500 a month for a "private resting area"

Here's what that will cause if you manage to make it happen.

We'll cause competition in the market and your housing issue due to affordability will go down.

These resting rooms? Approximately 400 ft².

There you go city planners that are in the chat I just solved your homelessness issue and additionally I just solved your housing issue

[pale osprey]

rip

[manic edge]

my favourite anti fire!

genious

[pale osprey]

lol just got war shipped for typing it as well

[manic edge]

yeah

[graceful mortar]

Now granted. Homelessness won't necessarily disappear.

But creating that level of competition in the market to bring housing costs down will push the big boy investors out of the market and put it back into private community managers.

That will reduce cost people will move out of these resting areas back into apartments Then you have the ability from there to create it as a halfway house for people trying to get back on their feet.

[pale osprey]

"describes a hostel"

[manic edge]

genious

now, the next problem: get the damn office buildings

[gleaming compass]

Imagine doing clean up of a radiation oncology department that was cutting corner :P

[next wren]

It's 100% a mental health issue, you give a home, that's fine.

But they're probably still fighting demons, and will still probably be battling addiction. Those are the biggest issues Noone wants to talk about.

You can give a home, but their life can still be chaos

[manic edge]

that's why you supervise them when they use.

canada has many of these, actually

[next wren]

That doesn't stop addiction... that makes it safer to stay addicted

[pale osprey]

this pretty much what happened to the man with the golden voice

[manic edge]

yes, but it also gives them the chance to survive an od

[gleaming compass]

you might be over simplifying there

[pale osprey]

https://www.google.com/search?q=man+with+a+golden+voice&sca_esv=559732191&sxsrf=AB5stBiq_ecGaHa2cBZC9G68cAw-WKc22g%3A1692893266323&ei=UoDnZPedE-Xl5NoPwcOM0Ao&gs_ssp=eJzj4tLP1TdINy0oSDIwYPQSz03MUyjPLMlQSFRIz89JSc1TKMvPTE4FANchDBg&oq=man+with+a+golden+&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

shit thats a long link

[full fossil]

oh god

[manic edge]

link wall link wall

[full fossil]

ever heard of a url shortnter

[gleaming compass]

I noticed that too

[manic edge]

that ain't a link, that's a lonk

[full fossil]

i have one for amazon that actually works on any site

[pale osprey]

yes but im lazy

[full fossil]

its a one click solution

[pale osprey]

if i cant instantly find where to cut it off i just send it

[gleaming compass]

Hi Lazy, strange name. I'm fluke

[next wren]

Well homelessness isn't just having no home....

You're oversimplyfying

[manic edge]

it kinda is though

homeless is having no home

[gleaming compass]

Oh no, you got me! The horror! The horror!

[manic edge]

but obviously why they don't have one is complicatdd

[pale osprey]

to the sarlacc pits with you

[manic edge]

the Sarlac pit is just a hole that's alive

[pale osprey]

yeah and its also hongy

[manic edge]

exactly

why get a hole pet when you can just have the hole?

[mystic nexus]

👀 where new upload?

[next wren]

My point is homelessness is a bigger problem than just having no home. You can give a home to a homeless person, but the cause of their homelessness doesn't go away

[pale osprey]

when you stop asking

[manic edge]

obviously it doesn't but having the home is a good start

[pale osprey]

not when you haven't figured out why they lost it in the first place

[manic edge]

no, but now they at least have an anchor in their life

[pale osprey]

if it was a bad situation lost a job and relationship fell apart then yeah all they need is a home but its another story for a gambling addict

[next wren]

Or someone with mental health disorders.

[thin fjord]

the cure to gambling addiction is hitting the jackpot

[manic edge]

lots of addictions stem from chaos in life

people use drugs, gamble, shop, etc to cope with stress

[thin fjord]

real

[manic edge]

its not a good way to do it

but if their life has some order, then they have a chance to kick the addiction

[gleaming compass]

and Purdue Pharma providing "non-addictive" pain medication?

[next wren]

There was a reason they became homeless... if that isn't fixed it's just a cycle. I have had family and friends that went through this. You give a home, cool, but who's going to look after them? Who's there for the next crisis?

[thin fjord]

real x2

[frank bridge]

I work in construction industry there's so many things causing issues I'm not sure there's a very straightforward solution at this point. Mainland Europeans do seem to be able build apartments but fixing irish/UK planning would require a different legal system. We'd have to change banking system. Get more labour from somewhere. It's very messy. It's a shame factory construction of apartment buildings isn't more advanced. Toyota used make houses. Sears catalog. We've barely advanced that stuff in 100 years.

[graceful mortar]

We don't have those in USA

[manic edge]

that's purdue's fault though, and a good support system is always a great safety net

[manic edge]

hopefully a pet, or loved one

[graceful mortar]

That's true with how much debt we work to settled with there is no option of selling because it has to be way over market.

So instead we work becomes we rest 😁 problem solved

[gleaming compass]

That costs money, Sackler family was the in business of making money, not spending it :P

[manic edge]

or even a psychiatrist that visits pro bone every week

[frank bridge]

People need inpatient treatment tackle addiction and mental health issues. It's all outpatient now and they end up back on the street too easy.

[pale osprey]

https://shorturl.at/iDGR7 you do

[manic edge]

absolutely, and fuck purdue for doing that.

[graceful mortar]

We shut them down because they were inhumane....

Kind of

So originally when you went to an asylum you worked the lands around the asylum that's why you had these kirkbride designed buildings with 50 to 60 acres on them.

Their ultimately completely self-sufficient because they had farms on them all kinds of stuff right

Then let legislation was made stating that if you had somebody that was assigned to the asylum working the land you had to pay them.

And then it became unsustainable and that's why we close down all of our mental health facilities

It also had to do with the stigma behind mental health so there was not a big push for public funding to continue these services because they were concerned about their effectiveness and ability to rehabilitate.

[manic edge]

definitely. the stigma from being "crazy" or "insane" still persists today

[graceful mortar]

Oh don't even get me started on that.

I was absolutely furious when they first got a judgment against them that they the next day went in foul bankruptcy claimed that they didn't have money to pay but yet the owners drained the company of all of the wealth.....

And despite their literal acts of terrorism against the American public through lying intentionally.

And lying directly to doctors claiming that pain was under treated and it was inhumane how they were conducting business and claiming that their new medication was not have it forming and had no path to addiction despite their own internal studying saying that it was the exact opposite.

Walked away without even a slap on the damn wrist... Yay USA.

[harsh quartz]

99% of gamblers stop just before they’re about to win big

[manic edge]

and many asylums were the place of horrible experiments

[harsh quartz]

Arkham asylum for one

[graceful mortar]

I don't see any in Phoenix. And I genuinely do not see the vast majority of Americans living in those kind of conditions with bunk beds and no 'personal space'

hell even our US soldiers freak the fuck out when they get a shared dwelling.

[manic edge]

it's what happens when governments get controlled by corporations

[manic edge]

yes, but that's fictional

[harsh quartz]

Says who?

[manic edge]

wait

holup, gonna loon that up

my b my b

[graceful mortar]

Yes.

I still think it's incredibly short-sighted that we didn't see this problem coming.

Like our asylums had insane amounts of capacity. But people were like I don't want you taking my kid etc etc.

Now every week we have basically a Columbine.

[pale osprey]

because its like you said. just a place to sleep. in the morning you go away and continue your travels

[graceful mortar]

And meds versus behavior rehabilitation because meds make money forever behavior rehabilitation solves the issue.

[graceful mortar]

The difference with my concept is your travels would be basically to work. And out in the community.

[thin fjord]

real

[manic edge]

you though you were trolling, but I just learnt arkham is inspired by Danvers state hospital

[graceful mortar]

Of course at least in America no idea for other countries.

Treating mental health is a loss. Very rarely do the mentally affected have insurance. So nobody ever gets paid.

Industry will not go where money doesn't exist.

And since we have a privatized help network full of mega corpse that continue to buy small hospitals convert them into their own branding and completely close free clinics in neighborhoods.

We walked right into this.

[pale osprey]

america problems

[manic edge]

the meds do work as well, but it's a temporary fix and not for everyone

[graceful mortar]

And now our national debt is becoming a paralyzing feature. There's no way out of it till we solve the budget issue.

But we won't see increased productivity in the American public until we solve a number of underlying issues.

The American people had no problem with working hard.

Then in the late '60s corporations started to no longer reward those that earned them the money and instead reward only at the very top.

Now the sentiment is minimum wage minimum effort.

[frank bridge]

Some of them were good. Others were terrible. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest came out they used the public perception to shut them all down. Leaving people with mental health issues in the street isn't more humane if they'd intervene on their behalf earlier a lot of them might then be capable of self sufficiency. Unfortunately a lot of addicts will have to be a while into recovery before they start to see things differently they're not necessarily going to volunteer themselves beforehand. I'm all for personal liberty short of doing drugs in public/in a tent that's antisocial and should justify intervention.

[graceful mortar]

No I do recognize that as well. However meds are the easy button. And it's an easy pathway to lifetime profits.

It's like when they were talking about antibiotic research. All antibiotics come from nature then we have to figure out a way to utilize them. (A bit more complicated than that but discord has a character limit)

We stopped researching antibiotics because when you come with a new antibiotic to the market. The clause is to use it as little as possible.

Because answers you introduce this antibiotic into the general population. Bacterial mutates making it less effective every single time you give anybody a dose. (Also because it ends up in the sewer systems)

So you can spend 10 billion dollars developing an antibiotic that may take 50 to 60 years for you to make back your initial investment.

Or you can spend $10 billion dollars on a once a day drug that you will make your entire investment back in less than 36 months......

You can guess which one the pharmaceutical companies chose

[manic edge]

real mental hospitals today have gotten better, but it's often only after things go terrible that someone gets admitted

[manic edge]

yeah, though macrophages do alleviate that issue

[graceful mortar]

I think everybody agrees The problem is is who's going to pay for it. Especially with us marching towards this cliff.

I predict you that the United States will be forced to file for bankruptcy due to credit rating degradation. Or the United States public is about to experience a massive shock in the next 6 years when we see our federal tax rate double or triple.

They could prevent that massive shock by making sure everybody's paying in equal amount and actually taxing wealth not just cash income.

But that would anger a lot of powerful people we've already seen that corporations have no problem at all retaliating even if it hurts their bottom line to make a point at the expense of their workers . (Preemptive layoffs etc)

[manic edge]

idk much about microbiology so don't take what I say as fact

[manic edge]

it often takes a disaster for change to happen

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/toast-jumpscare-gif-21501288

[graceful mortar]

Because you have to justify the loss, because they're not going to be paying for the bills, to not only hospital management but, if you're attempting to get state reimbursement, to the state as well.

Kind of like how psychiatric holds are only 72 hours.....

[pliant karma]

https://tenor.com/view/peanutbutterandjelly-pbandj-pbjday-sandwiches-cats-gif-3990238

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-music-pbjday-peanutbutterjellytime-gif-3990151

[graceful mortar]

The thing is we've had disasters. And instead of getting to the root cause people have automatically gone on to an attack over legal firearms.....

Which although I could see their supers nearsighted point.

We had a war on drugs that put a bunch of people in prison mostly low-level dealers. We still had drugs on the street.

Making it harder to own a legal firearm does not stop the black market.

if anything it intensifies the demand for it which then funnels substantially more money into criminal organizations that ultimately back them.

[shell wyvern]

i crashed my bread car

except it wasnt bread it was a car

and i crashed it and now im in severe debt

and my life is over

[graceful mortar]

Our war on drugs actually concentrated power. Because the big boys were feeding 'anonymous' tips to the police to knock out their competition allowing them to take over the territory.

[manic edge]

the war on drugs didn't work bc stopping access to drugs doesn't stop an addiction. with guns, you can't get addicted to, it can work

[graceful mortar]

Think the overall plot of breaking bad could never happen? Think again.

[regal mulch]

hey anyone knows when can we expect more awkwardly-inaccurate and misleading videos???
(jk wew please don't hate, i'm actually curious when Linus is dropping more videos lol)

[jade snow]

someday

[manic edge]

I mean, the uk did it and gun crime went to practically 0

[regal mulch]

a week has already passed 😦

[graceful mortar]

Right but making them illegal. Will only create a demand on the black market.

People don't like when you take things away from them. That's why there's still a massive market for lawn darts.

When you take things away from the American people you increase their appetite for it massively. Just because "freedom"

[hearty spear]

to be fair, the entire concept of the war on drugs was literally to eff over hippies and a few other non-white groups in the country.

[jade snow]

now lets look at the knife crime chart

[graceful mortar]

[hearty spear]

It's a lot harder to kill 20+ people with a knife than with guns 😛

[manic edge]

the freedom thing with guns is more propaganda than anything. though I agree with the rest

it sucks to have something taken away even for a greater good

[hearty spear]

(America literally has more guns in it than humans.)

[harsh quartz]

(good)

[earnest abyss]

So does Canada.

[manic edge]

don't think so, no

[graceful mortar]

It's an island. That's something extremely important to consider. This makes smuggling illegal items and substantially harder.

[jade snow]

thats why walmart invented pipe bombs duh

[harsh quartz]

im not saying this because guns are good, im saying it because humans suck

[manic edge]

yes, but they're connected to Europe through a tunnel

[hearty spear]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
Incorrect: Canada has 34 guns per 100 people

[manic edge]

we also have gun laws, and it's extremely difficult to get one even if you're hunting

[graceful mortar]

It's like our freeway speed cameras. They showed up people found them extremely inconvenient and didn't like the fact that it didn't actually solve the speeding issue because people were just slam on their brakes when they approach the camera....

So now we went back to our normal way of life and we no longer have cameras On our highways.

The cameras did have a greater good. They didn't really solve speeding because it was just very specific spots along the freeway.

And the general populace retaliated and demanded that they be removed.

[graceful mortar]

Which I assume goes through some kind of check like a security check.

Or can I just load my trunk full of ARs and just hop in the tunnel and bring them into the UK? Genuinely asking.

[manic edge]

it's hard to enforce speed limits because it's a case-by-case thing

[harsh quartz]

also, this is official counts that you know about, im sure canada is probably pretty close, but the american count is probably WAY lower than the actual number

[graceful mortar]

Doesn't the UK have average speed cameras? That would have totally worked here.

[manic edge]

its heavily guarded by border patrols, but people have managed to smuggle themselves in

[harsh quartz]

never say these are good things because they are not

[hearty spear]

entertaining fact: There's a system in place on the majority of toll highways in America that could 100% stop speeding
But they can't allow it to be used to enforce speeding laws.

[graceful mortar]

Most of our borders are unguarded except for a freaking fence.... Sometimes.

This makes it very easy to walk in whatever product you have for sale via mules across the desert get them picked up on the US side of the border and run to your stash houses.

[harsh quartz]

entertaining fact: toll highways are very sparse in most of the usa and i havent seen one in a very very long time

[jade snow]

easy fix just put GPS, data connection and cameras on every car 👁️

[hearty spear]

mmmm, 1984 ftw

[manic edge]

land borders are very hard to guard either way

[harsh quartz]

the funny part is that this already exists, you carry it around in your pocket, all they have to do is access it 😛

[graceful mortar]

Oh I agree I think it's absolutely ridiculous.

But if they were worried about speeding across the entire highway which is what the premise of putting the cameras up were for (officer safety technically but that way they don't have to sit on the highway). They would have done something like that.

Not had a single 1/16 of a mile section that has a single camera.

And I think that that was also a big rhetoric as well for getting them removed was all they're doing is stopping speeding in one little section by grabbing people's wallets and it's not effective because the tickets that they issue aren't enforceable.

[manic edge]

uh, no.

[graceful mortar]

We don't have any toll highways in my state but I assume you mean the same license plate scanners that verify that you actually pay your toll.

[jade snow]

well all they gon see is an extreme closeup of my broken cloth seats on one cam, and a blurry ceiling on the other, as for the mic? distorted female rock music

[hearty spear]

EZ-Pass, yeah

[graceful mortar]

And that right there is why people are not wanting to trust EVs because they don't like how connected they are cuz they feel like they can be utilized like that.

They're worried that their movements will be tracked.

They're also worried that if law enforcement has access to that then so does a criminal and they can use it to stalk you

[harsh quartz]

they dont need the camera or audio, but the GPS signal will be pretty helpful

[graceful mortar]

However those same people fail to realize that most modern cars have the same exact capabilities

[manic edge]

yes, but a car with GPS isn't connected to the internet

[harsh quartz]

my car has a GPS built in and with updated maps can tell you whther your speeding or not on most main roads, of course i ignore it, but the capabilities are there

[jade snow]

ez pz ill put a faraday cage on my glovebox

[manic edge]

tbh, a car shouldn't need software updates

or have a software start button

if that's a thing

[jade snow]

time to build a custom ev

[graceful mortar]

The point being don't create demand for underground markets unless you're willing to deal with the repercussions of it.

Kind of like how they solved the opioid issue by cracking down on pharmacies and doctors but didn't put any support systems in place for those that had become addicted.

Banning guns coupled with an Americans lust to own firearms to 'protect themselves from the government.... 🙃"

Will simply create a completely unregulated economy which all of the funds will go towards funding further illegal activities not limited to just black market gun imports.

[harsh quartz]

okay jerryrigeverything calm down there

[graceful mortar]

They do because instead of spending 15 years in development they spend less than three nowadays get out to the market to start earning money on their investment and then kind of fix things along the way as customers throw fit about them...

[manic edge]

again, the gun lust is mostly very effective propaganda.

[harsh quartz]

na imma keep my guns

[graceful mortar]

I don't know.

You see I can tell you right now all of the gun owners I know are prepared to go into a shootout if a cop shows up at their door to take their guns away.

Hell I know some that are preparing in case that happens with 10,000 rounds of ammunition.

'It's my constitutional right'

[manic edge]

they didn't though

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-b-bread-bread212-bread-rainbow-bread-party-gif-24434274

[manic edge]

fear mongering is very effective

[jade snow]

try doubling the amount of line breaks

[graceful mortar]

Oh no I know they won't untiltheir sales numbers plummet then they'll try to solve some issues. Or give it a new bumper and headlights and call it an all new model and act like it never happened.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/food-dinner-lunch-eat-feed-gif-17437071

[manic edge]

older cars never had software and people were happy with it

[graceful mortar]

I mean..... These people are a hundred percent serious though.

I know a couple when there was talking about regulation and outlawing ARs that went out and purposely purchased higher and higher caliber ARs.

Like 50 Beowulf.

[manic edge]

seriously dangerous

[harsh quartz]

older cars also were made to where they wouldnt crumple in accidents and people were also happy with that, you saying we shouldnt innovate to improve the driving experience?

[marsh cloak]

Any update on LTT and when they might start releasing content?

[manic edge]

at the very least, John doe shouldn't have access to an assault rifle without rigorous training

[graceful mortar]

No I understand It's about marketing.

You see you tell somebody oh your car will be always up to date and because Tesla set the precedent consumers go oh great my car will never be obsolete... (insert gateway computer meme)

Meanwhile. The manufacturers have absolutely no intention whatsoever of providing new model features to old models.

And the biggest reason why they have over their updates is that way they can eliminate expensive things like switches and buttons and instead go to a touch interface

that solely relies on software where they can just fix the bug instead of having to a full recall and spend all of the millions of dollars on replacement parts.

[harsh quartz]

mmmmm i like politics in my bread chat

https://tenor.com/view/hot-sexy-buttered-smear-toast-gif-17929488

[red breach]

still at it with the FUDsauce I see?

[graceful mortar]

Oh it's got some bite that for sure. My shoulder remembers

[manic edge]

I'm saying a car shouldn't be a mobile movie theatre

[graceful mortar]

Eventually TM

[red breach]

GM's been doing feature updates to infotainment for YEARS. My 2019 Cadillac CTS did OTA software and like

[harsh quartz]

saying that vs saying they shouldnt receive updates are very different things

[graceful mortar]

Yeah older cars you either died or you're able to fix it and not have to buy a new car.

Nowadays they crumple so you don't die but you always have to buy a new car.

[manic edge]

yep, but of course that "always up to date" feature will inevitably turn into a "you don't own this car" feature

[graceful mortar]

👀 politics where??? Do you smell them or something? Which direction are they coming from

[harsh quartz]

you two stink of it

[red breach]

https://i.imgur.com/ow32hiK.jpg that was a grandpa car, from GM of all makes -- and even in 2019 they were doing OTAs that visibily improved the UI/UX. This isn't... a lie

[tired glade]

So, just wan show this week?

[manic edge]

I mean, Ford applied for a patent for their vehicles to repo themselves.

[graceful mortar]

Awesome.... Thanks for that tidbit

[manic edge]

no fucking way they won't try shady shit with that

[red breach]

your thesis that OEMs never plan on delivering OTAs is measurably false

[harsh quartz]

cool, which they can put in beforehand, they dont have to do an update for that

[full fossil]

Patents don’t mean shit until they’re made into reality

[harsh quartz]

and if ford implements that patent, guess whos not gonna buy their cars? everyone

[graceful mortar]

I don't see what you see?

[full fossil]

Real

[manic edge]

nope, they have that "all american" shit

[grand sapphire]

me replacing the GPS location to the closest mc'donalds

[harsh quartz]

mmmmyes no politics here at all @graceful mortar

[earnest abyss]

🍞

[manic edge]

o fuck

[full fossil]

So american they build it in mexico

[harsh quartz]

can i VPN my car to european servers

[manic edge]

very soz mods.

[abstract dust]

🍞

[graceful mortar]

Updates that matter. Like bringing your older model in the line with the brand new models features that are currently available. Which is where they're 'always up to date' statement is misleading.

[manic edge]

true, but i can almost guarantee that will become reality

[harsh quartz]

and again, no one will buy them, their stock will plummet, and they will remove it

[graceful mortar]

Oh... I see they went off the rails. I'm on mobile so I am just reading direct replies 😬😬

[grand sapphire]

thought this said parents lmao

[jade snow]

dumb switches are cheap. it is the propietary screen modules that are only sold by them that make the good profit

[manic edge]

they have the propaganda, I can assure you there's plenty of people who absolutely and blindly buy the newest fords

[jade snow]

see apple

[red breach]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/03/2021-cadillac-escalade-ct4-and-ct5-now-eligible-for-additional-super-cruise-features/ like new autonomous driving features? that's the kind of YoY improvement that legacy OEMs will NEVER deliver, right? 🤡

[full fossil]

You should dive into the patents companies have controlled for 100 years that never came to life

[graceful mortar]

We don't have dumb switches anymore It's all can network.

[harsh quartz]

doesnt mean their stock prices wont sufer

[red breach]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/04/c8-corvette-adds-wireless-phone-charging-notification-through-ota-update/

[graceful mortar]

Oh you mean the feature that requires a paid subscription to use..... Ya cool story

[harsh quartz]

imagine owning a corvette anyways

[full fossil]

Pass

[manic edge]

just look at Apple: they make objectively bad decisions but people still buy those decisions

[harsh quartz]

they ride like shit and are way too expensive for an average joe

[manic edge]

9 year loans

[graceful mortar]

I'm talking about adding the new Smart towing features on the new GMC Sierra to the refresh models that have exactly the same hardware.

Some of us intentionally purchased full digital dash premium models because GM said it would always be up to date with the newest available features.....

Guess who didn't get any of those features.

[red breach]

Yeah, it's a service... it streams data over the cellular network, you expect to be able to get that in perpetuity for free with no cost, just like buying a cell phone right? you only pay for that once up front and not every month, right?? 🤡

[vapid canyon]

Such as?

[harsh quartz]

they make you pay 20$ extra for a charger, boohoo, they dont make your phone walk away from you

[red breach]

the chances of you actually owning a Denali and introducing that fact NOW in our conversation -- about as likely as me being the king of england. What are you, 17? Go back to school kid

[jade snow]

You know they would if they could

[harsh quartz]

they charge more cause they know whales will pay it for apple, its not the same as making a patent that literally drives a vehicle away from your property

[manic edge]

where do you want me to start? at the proprietary connectors, or the MacBooks that kill themselves with their own heat? or the recent ones where their Bios is on a proprietary nand soldered to the board which often short out?

[harsh quartz]

i actually disagree

[graceful mortar]

Okay so make the data service optional but have it be able to still function if I don't want to pay a subscription through you for the life of the vehicle for the next 40 to 50 years...

But it's not structured like that.

Sooo it's $75/month to use the feature you paid thousands of dollars extra upfront to have....

[full fossil]

Which of those is as bad as the car driving itself away from you?

[harsh quartz]

these are stupid decisions but not life threatening or altering. The ford patent would be possible dangerous and life altering. its different scales of importance

[proven sinew]

how should i eat twix

[vapid canyon]

My mac runs as cold as my windows desktop, never any issues with heat

[harsh quartz]

leave it in the fridge

[red breach]

supercruise is $25/month. That $50 includes a bunch of stuff you aren't showing intentionally like unlimited in car hotspot

[proven sinew]

nuh uh then the frigde would eat it not me

[red breach]

which, in the US, a portable hotspot costs that per month. not saying it's a good value but

[full fossil]

The intel macbooks were thermal reactors but that’s a much MUCH longer story than public chat will ever allow to be discussed

[manic edge]

the heat issues are older MacBooks, not the more recent ones

[red breach]

You also get 3 years of supercruise with the vehicle purchase

[proven sinew]

but how do i open it. should the T be on the top when i open or on the bottom

[red breach]

again ask me how I know this?

[harsh quartz]

i... uhh... scissors?

[proven sinew]

but should the t be on the bottom or the top

[manic edge]

none,

[harsh quartz]

i mean surely T stands for Top right?

[graceful mortar]

Cool story bro.
2021 AT4 3.0 Duramax premium with tech package, sunroof, Brembo brake package (cop brakes), high clearance steps, GM hard folding bed cover. Was $72,000 in 2021.

New ones are $86,000

[manic edge]

if a MacBook is all you have, it can ruin you

[harsh quartz]

bruh why is this chat always on cars now, can we go back to bread?

[harsh quartz]

no?

[full fossil]

Hyperbole moment

[vapid canyon]

I went a year without a windows computer and had no issues with only a MacBook for a while

[graceful mortar]

So it's $75 a month subscription to use all of the features that you paid for upfront threw up charges when you purchase the vehicle.

[manic edge]

depending on your job

[harsh quartz]

what job do you depend on a mac THAT desperately

[full fossil]

Hardware is one cost
Services are a running cost

[proven sinew]

am i tripping or is there no difference between left and right twix

[manic edge]

freelance

[harsh quartz]

there is no difference

[manic edge]

I bought my damn car, I want all my damn car.

[full fossil]

If having a working computer is THAT important to your entire life and you don’t have a dinky cheap backup, you’re an idiot

[harsh quartz]

so you can buy another computer? see this isnt the same issue. This is talking about hardware failure, like if the ford transmission died. This is not the same as the mac WALKING AWAY FROM YOU

[earnest abyss]

There's a huge difference

[full fossil]

You got the car.
You pay for gas don’t you???
That’s a service.

[quaint venture]

I mean you have all your car, if you want extra then you pay extra

[harsh quartz]

you pay road taxes, license fees, registration, insurance

[full fossil]

Paying monthly for heated seats is dumb as shit though

[marsh jasper]

Wonder if we'll see something today 🥺

[manic edge]

yes, but I don't wanna pay monthly for acceleration that I already have

[harsh quartz]

heated seats are dumb as shit imo

when are we gonna get cooled seats?

[rigid epoch]

The left one doesn't taste right

[red breach]

you didn't pay for anything upfront - the onstar hardware is literally paid for in accounting by subscription fees. The wifi hardware, crash sensors, all of that is being paid for by a separate corporate unit from GM that sold you the car. that's WHY they've been doing subscriptions for 20+ years, this IS NOT new

[fierce moth]

This

[full fossil]

25 years ago.

[fierce moth]

I don't want a hot ass, I want a cold ass

[manic edge]

not everyone can just buy another computer

[harsh quartz]

okay i mean mass marketted cooled seats, the same way heated seats are in damn near every car

[full fossil]

cooled seats are fairly commonplace in new vehicles now

[harsh quartz]

the same way not everyone can fix their vehicle, but youve moved the goal posts

[graceful mortar]

Not for the OEM that now has a revenue stream that continues past the first owner.

[red breach]

you paid $3000 for supercruise if you're like me, in the EUV. it's an option - that includes 3 years of service. It's then $25 a month TO HAVE THE CAR DRIVE FOR YOU which requires data service. this isn't a fucking seat heater it requires ongoing mapping data and service to support it

[harsh quartz]

where the fuck are the icy ass vehicles, i have never seen one and i have a 2017

[manic edge]

obviously not, but having the option the repair your things is always good

[graceful mortar]

You have to pay to have super cruise . And then you get to pay monthly for using that hardware.

[full fossil]

The damn prius and kia forte have cooled seats

[harsh quartz]

this argument has gone way into left field and your not even on the same point anymore

[proven sinew]

how

[red breach]

you have to pay for the iphone/pixel/samsung, then pay monthly to use that hardware 🤡

[harsh quartz]

yeah but who in sam hell buys a kia forte or a prius?

[proven sinew]

literally no difference

[manic edge]

you're the one that put it there?

[fierce moth]

I fully support hacking cars if it's gonna come to this, but imagine doom homebrew on cars

[graceful mortar]

No but what is new. Is now as directly tied to built-in features not like previous where it was Oh if I want crashed response automatically then I can have this bonus safety feature.

It's like if they require you to have OnStar subscription in order to drive at night because that was the only way to get the headlights to activate....

See the issue there.

[red breach]

anyway, here's my proof that I know what I'm talking about - https://imgur.com/a/6FZH5pU

[harsh quartz]

didnt teslsas just have a massive security issue cause the AMD chip can be subject to voltage tampering?

[red breach]

where's yours?

[full fossil]

You have to pay for onstar hardware, it’s an added option

[red breach]

except it's not. supercruise constantly streams data back and forth

[graceful mortar]

Okay but why can't I not have the subscription and just use the data that's already been vetted and is already available?

Like yeah I understand having a subscription if you want new roads but if I only need what's already on there I don't see a need to pay anymore.

Because it's $25 now.... Would you still be saying that if it was $300 a month?

[red breach]

it COSTS MONEY for them for you to use it, on top of ongoing costs relating to mapping, etc

[fierce moth]

I heard something like that, like a timed voltage glitch like in the fashion of the old reset glitch hack in the xbox 360 days

[manic edge]

either way, just buying another computer doesn't save the data you just lost because the fucking nand shorted and "overclocked the cpu so much even linus would be proud"

[harsh quartz]

yeah, so basically people can hack teslas now and turn on locked features, like the self driving and the heated seats, without paying for those features, which is honestly funny as hell

[graceful mortar]

Yes but it didn't cost $80,000.... See you this subscription habitat to have alternative streams of revenue while providing absolutely nothing as far as guarantees for what new you will be getting is toxic.

Now GM said for $25 a month I will guarantee that you will have a minimum of 2,000 additional miles of road added every single month and if we don't do that you don't have to pay that would be different.

But what's to stop them from going Oh no no no we've already mapped all the roads that we're going to do you just got to pay this in perpetual.

Absolutely nothing, That's where my problem is

[red breach]

Would you still be saying that if it was $300 a month?

I would have bought the Cadillac if I wanted to spend $300 more a month on a car. I think you're forgetting that GM's customers buy NEW cars, and people buy those... monthly. It's either financed or a lease and

[fierce moth]

I won't care until I can play doom using my gas pedal and steering wheel

[quaint venture]

Just get a motorcycle

[harsh quartz]

logitech

[red breach]

you're forgetting that I don't really care at the end of the day if $200 goes to GMFAC and $25 to onstar or $225 to GMFAC, I really fucking don't

[fierce moth]

Nah but in the tesla

[manic edge]

fair enough

[harsh quartz]

na, fuck the teslas, do it with a good steering wheel

[graceful mortar]

I know. That's my point.

[red breach]

I'm already "subscribed" to my car - it's leased. Literally not my problem

[full fossil]

Sorry there’s so much shit going on

[manic edge]

onstar is useless

[graceful mortar]

And that sounds like piss poor engineering solely to justify a subscription revenue stream.

[manic edge]

at least nowadays

[fierce moth]

I wanna be able to beat ultra nightmare in doom eternal while going 100 kmph on the freeway

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/bagel-net-bagels-trash-gif-18505529

[red breach]

sounds like the safest way to run a self driving AI, to have all the sensor data feeding all together in a way that tesla and co could only dream about

supercruise is doing some next level shit, all the cars even with basic sensor packages have full LIDAR data being streamed into them

bandwidth is cheap, sensors are ugly and expensive and shitty and break

[graceful mortar]

Okay then they shouldn't have designed it that way.

So that means it's a shitty design who's focus relies on a continuous revenue stream from all next owners of the vehicle if they want to use this premium feature.

What happens if I'm driving and all of a sudden a cell tower explodes.

Does the car just violently swerve into the median? Nope.

That means it has local capabilities.

[harsh quartz]

how do yall manage to argue about cars in a new way every 6 hours

[red breach]

if you've seen the difference between a cruise AV and a consumer chevy bolt, you understand what I'm talking about

[manic edge]

bc cars suck ass

[quaint venture]

Car people

[harsh quartz]

then dont drive one

[red breach]

the car absolutely has local capabilities, they're about equivalent to any other ADAS system

[manic edge]

can't do that.

[harsh quartz]

skillgap

[manic edge]

fair

[red breach]

what makes it LIDAR-ified is the streaming capability, integrating all the sensor data GM has created (many TB, PB even)

[quaint venture]

Simple solution just live where you work and live within two miles of all your necessities and you’ll never have to drive again

[manic edge]

self driving cars won't solve traffic though

[red breach]

which allows you to go fully hands free, it makes teslas "full self driving" vision and makes it real

[full fossil]

Company towns yeah!!!

[graceful mortar]

Do you have to pay a subscription on Mercedes self-driving car that requires not only no driver input but Mercedes accepts responsibility for any incidents or accidents that occur. Hmmm I wonder

[frail wasp]

Been 1 week. Where LTT video?

[quaint venture]

If you wanna solve traffic then you get rid of cars lol

[red breach]

or did you pay the $50,000 extra upfront?

[manic edge]

EXACTLY

[harsh quartz]

im down for it, i would love to work at blue oval city in the next few years

[normal cargo]

Aye if you just have a bed next to your work desk then what's the issue ?

[red breach]

hmm i wonder 🤡

[full fossil]

That uses local processing only
Not a service based on pre-verified roads

[quaint venture]

Military be like

[red breach]

bro you're the literal clowniest clown that's ever fucking clowned

[quaint venture]

Exactly

[full fossil]

Join the military then

[red breach]

Mercedes is the one with the good value? Are you thick?

[harsh quartz]

cant

[manic edge]

skillgap

[harsh quartz]

wow you really just said my joke back at me, very funny and creative

[graceful mortar]

And you're somebody that thinks that the normal person wants to shell out $700 to $800 a month in just subscriptions.....

[manic edge]

thank you.

[red breach]

??? Supercruise is $25/month on a $30,000 car. HOW IS BUYING A $100K CAR with "free" self driving BETTER?

[full fossil]

A normal person isn’t spending $100k on a car

[graceful mortar]

Anyway I'm done with you dank

You've made your viewpoint clear,

I massively disagree with it because all I see is a way for manufacturers to continue to make money once a vehicle goes to the used market and considering how expensive vehicles are upfront I find that absolutely unexcusable.

[red breach]

that was literally his suggestion tho @full fossil

[full fossil]

Supercruise and mercedes’ tech are also completely different

[graceful mortar]

Because if it has an accident it takes full responsibility and you don't pay a dime.

Whereas if supercruise crashes you're on the hook.

[harsh quartz]

what car are you talking about thats 30k?

[manic edge]

bc you bought the damn car, you shouldn't be paying a subscription for something that it can do.

[red breach]

it also doesn't fucking work unless you're in a traffic jam

[red breach]

mine https://imgur.com/a/6FZH5pU

[red breach]

I bought phone, shouldn't pay for phone service? It's SERVICE

[harsh quartz]

ew its a bolt

[full fossil]

It’s an updated service
You pay for cell service, same shit

[red breach]

you're THICK

[normal cargo]

Lol no u

[manic edge]

I'm not? if the car can fucking self drive, I paid for the self driving

[red breach]

faster than yours, pal

[harsh quartz]

you bought you computer but you still pay for a floatplane subscription, why are you paying for something that it SHOULD be able to do?

[harsh quartz]

and?

[quaint venture]

When will my bike get self drive

[red breach]

ew it's a [whatever you drive]

[harsh quartz]

i mean, its a chevy, very well known for being dependable reliable cars

[normal cargo]

So, self driving sucks ey ?

[manic edge]

it is already doing that.

[red breach]

oh, you're cool nvm

[quaint venture]

Yes

[normal cargo]

Nuff said

[red breach]

but not that cool, what's with the bolt hate bro

[harsh quartz]

i just hate american made cars 😛

[full fossil]

Chevy 🤢

[graceful mortar]

bolt EUV he forgot about $10k of it. Before the 15k dealer markup

[manic edge]

I mean, technically I don't even need to pay to get the floatplane sub

[red breach]

but you drive chevy

[night orchid]

Where leenus

[harsh quartz]

i dont?

[lavish elm]

anyone know why my W11 has no flyouts and everytime i try to add desktops it doesn't work and then breaks all keyboard shortcuts such as alt tab

[full fossil]

You forgot tax incentives

[red breach]

got mine at MSRP, skill issue

[graceful mortar]

I mean that's the only time it matters.

We already have self-driving cars they're called taxis and Ubers.

[red breach]

thought thats what you were saying here, tf

[idle skiff]

new Mini Cooper EV looks killer, but we don't get it in the US until at least 2028 lmao

[red breach]

which, get this -- I DRIVE UBER AND LYFT

[full fossil]

Mini 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢

[harsh quartz]

no, i was being sarcastic about your car being very... reliable and dependable

[red breach]

except, I don't. in between appointments I don't fucking drive

[graceful mortar]

GM issue 🤷 if you can't control your dealers on the initial purchase it means you also can't control them on service so I'm not going to do business with you.

[red breach]

my job is made SO much easier by supercruise, just point the car and go

[quaint venture]

I don’t even know what’s being argued about anymore

[normal cargo]

Properly fun car if you can keep it alive

[idle skiff]

Minis are fun as hell to drive & super agile

[manic edge]

I'm using my phone how I want to use it. if I had to pay monthly for my phone to turn on, then it's different

[harsh quartz]

shame the car cant keep you alive if you hit a speedbump too fast

[full fossil]

They went to shit after bmw got their greedy little claws on them

[graceful mortar]

Okay so are you driving or is GM driving? Are you paying GM a % of your earnings for all the driving that their system does? Nope didn't think so

[normal cargo]

That's not the issue, engines, electronics, and anything else made by BMW is the issue

[manic edge]

if the Ford I bought with my money has self driving, then I bought that self driving already.

[red breach]

no, because I paid them $25 a month

[harsh quartz]

also, i wouldnt trust my life in one, if i could even fit in one

[full fossil]

Not to mention they’re fucking huge now

[red breach]

🤡

[idle skiff]

I've had my mini for 7 years and I've had little to no problem with it

[normal cargo]

And that

[red breach]

Literally, what do you drive, punk?

[graceful mortar]

omg the cringe 😅😅😅.... feel free to roast

[normal cargo]

They're decent protection from what I know, no worse than the rest of the market.

[harsh quartz]

a car

[quaint venture]

Rly? Punk?

[graceful mortar]

So you're misappropriating services based on their terms and conditions.... Right byeee now

[harsh quartz]

im not cool enough for him

[full fossil]

uh

[red breach]

It's against their T&C for me to use supercruise to drive while off-duty in between appointments for lyft? show me

show me, fucking show me

[quaint venture]

You get the big one?

[full fossil]

its the small one
not enough to shell for the big one

Holy turbo cringe batman

[quaint venture]

Sadge, I’ve got both. The big one is very comfy

[pale osprey]

what the fuck did i just read

[manic edge]

as for the floatplane sub, that's a feature I didn't pay for, since I bought my computer before that. I'm already using its features of connecting to the internet

[graceful mortar]

That's not what you said 🤣 here's the receipts 💅💅💅

[full fossil]

dfhsjghgsfdjsfdhjg

[red breach]

🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/toast-space-cat-laser-gif-7817737

[red breach]

0iq poors vs self driving ev owner who will win

[quaint venture]

Neither of you

[normal cargo]

So you need to pay extra for additional access you mean ? 🙂

[red breach]

oooh no muh 750 month subscrubshuns

bro it's $25

[graceful mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/jeremy-clarkson-thumbs-up-good-great-approve-gif-4932199

[harsh quartz]

imagine owning a car just to not drive it. I fuckin love driving and couldnt imagine paying someone else to do it for me

[manic edge]

floatplane isn't hosted on my computer. I didn't pay to install the servers.

[red breach]

it makes the car drive itself. if that's not worth $25/month to you, you're poor, broke, zilch, like 0 income I spent that on lunch and I didn't even enjoy it

[normal cargo]

But you can pay for access to their servers

[red breach]

regardless of value, it costs them money every month for you to use it, like a cell phone. You expect GM to just pay for that, becuase you paid them for the car? thats exactly how your phone works, right?

[harsh quartz]

so, yes, theyre paying 25$ for connecting to the remote servers for the self driving because they didnt pay to install the servers in their car

[manic edge]

yes.

[quaint venture]

Why you spending 25 dollars on lunch?

[red breach]

just to make sure we're ALLL on the same page here on the subscription issue, fuck paying monthly for heated seats, etc. But this isn't that

[red breach]

because I live in new york city and if you want to sit down at a table with a friend, you have to pay the toll tbh

[normal cargo]

Cool, so if the product you purchase needs additional access you can prolly expect some kind of recurring fee to maintain functionality

[graceful mortar]

And there it is!!!!

I knew it was coming! I knew that that was your point.

I knew it from the moment that you called me a broke 17-year-old.

🤦🤦🤦

'look at me money makes me better than you 🤪🤪🤪'

I freaking knew it.

[harsh quartz]

oh this dude lives in NYC, that explains so fuckin much

[red breach]

that's the only point of your argument here, you're acting like $25/month will break the economy of who is buying new cars

[full fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/zombieland-zombieland-saga-angry-violent-fight-gif-24282338

[harsh quartz]

hey use more space on the page i promise were all reading your 17 paragraph essays

[thin fjord]

zombieland saga goes hard

[full fossil]

This isn’t a conversation anymore it’s just arguing and clowning
Give it up

[red breach]

you're debating an issue of NEW CAR BUYERS and if you're not in the income space where any of this matters, you literally DO NOT have an opinion which is valid at all?

[quaint venture]

Indeed, it slaps

[full fossil]

Never heard of it

[pale osprey]

cant wiat till 10 years from now when super cruise is considered junk and to janky to use

[fading snow]

Guys, I was on the Gamescom. 0/10, never again

[red breach]

like, you made it abundantly clear with your $750/month nonsense, it's $25/month, fucking $25

[thin fjord]

it's the anime in the gif you sent

[red breach]

I get rid of this car in 26 months

[graceful burrow]

<@&750150305383186585> harassing other users

[full fossil]

90s owners with carphones be like

[harsh quartz]

tbf thats a lot just to not drive a car that you paid to drive

[normal cargo]

The point he's making is the direction of the industry, if you pay 25 quid for (whatever the fuck people are talking about), 6 bucks for heated seats (hello vw) then it's all gonna add up to the point of being f'd in the A with extra costs.

I get your point n all mind, if a service needs additional access that costs money then that'll either be needed to added to the ticket price or paid for after purchase.

[pale osprey]

ive actually started trying to get a car phone to work in my volvo by tieing it into the bluetooth on my aftermsrket radio

[full fossil]

Both of you goobers are abusing the bread roll!!!!

[manic edge]

bred?

[graceful burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-loaf-gif-26074266

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/bagel-net-bagels-trash-gif-18505529

[strong quiver]

if you buy something and need to pay a monthly fee on top of it and find it ok to do so you are part of the problem

[harsh quartz]

this is a trash take ngl

[full fossil]

Ok get off the internet then

[strong quiver]

did i buy the internet?

[quaint venture]

No. I did.

[full fossil]

You pay for its service

[harsh quartz]

do you pay for cellular service on your phone?

[red breach]

if a service needs additional access that costs money then that'll either be needed to added to the ticket price or paid for after purchase.

Thank you! that's really all I've been trying to explain to these literal children and it's getting so fucking heated, you're right pal I'm with you I don't love the idea of subscriptions for everything but some stuff just.... costs money every month and "imagining a world where it doesn't" for the basis of arguing about self driving cars is stupid

[gentle willow]

Wonder why access is blocked to subscriber count? Or is it actually levelled off at 15.3?

[strong quiver]

of course. but not for the phone

[full fossil]

:hoesmaddance:

[harsh quartz]

Do you pay for gas to use your car?

[pale osprey]

connect my iphone to the radio and answer calls that come through on the car phone

[full fossil]

You paid once for the phone
It works, you don’t need service for it to work
It’s just a service
Which is the entire discussion here

[tulip willow]

its a weird flex to say you spent $25 on a lunch you didn't even enjoy

[strong quiver]

yes but i get the gas as a product. i dont pay a random fee for something that is already in my car

[graceful mortar]

Oh hell Ya. xzibit should hit you up for his new show

[harsh quartz]

what about registration or insurance?

insurance is a good example here

[red breach]

it's a weird thing to be complaining about, a $25/month subscription for an advanced feature for a car you can't afford in the first place - ya feel?

[quaint venture]

Car people are weird

[strong quiver]

its not. because you get a service. the computer and software for self driving or supercruise or heated seats is already in your car

[mild nova]

lots of weird in this place the last week

[graceful mortar]

Why is dank still income shaming people like it somehow is going to make it suddenly okay??

[tulip willow]

depends on if you actually have a use for it. My car has Bluecruise, once the subscription lapses I'll probably stop paying for it because I don't get any utility out of it normally

[restive summit]

wan show happening tomorrow?

[red breach]

I mean, do you think the car turns into a pumpkin? you still have lane keep and radar cruise control, you're just not getting the hands free self driving data-AI service

[full fossil]

AGAIN. FOR FUCK’S SAKE.
Supercruise is not exclusively local processing. It’s cloud assisted which costs money. The NORMAL “self driving” functionality does not disappear the second you miss a payment

[harsh quartz]

im not allowed to use my car without insurance, whether or not i get the actual service from it

[pale osprey]

the mic part is super simple. i just solder on a connector for the mic port on the radio into the phone wires . the hard part is getting it to play through the car phone speaker and not the whole sound system

[graceful mortar]

I mean.... The car still functions.

You also don't have to buy insurance you can actually self-insure.

[red breach]

I'm not income shaming anybody. I'm just questioning the validity of complaints about a product from people who cannot and will not buy the product in the first place, yeah??

[harsh quartz]

yeah, and the car still functions without supercruise

[red breach]

not in the USA lmao

[graceful mortar]

40% of road users in Arizona don't have insurance. They just choose not to have it.

[full fossil]

The damn self driving still functions without supercruise
Chat is just brutally ignorant right now

[manic edge]

if you didn't own it before, you pay. if you bought it with your purchase, you dont.

[harsh quartz]

this chat is always ignorant, thats why bread came around in the first place

[graceful mortar]

And that would be fine if it was solely subscription funded.... But it's not you pay three grand for the hardware upfront that's the issue.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/show-me-your-bread-anime-bread-gif-25377647

[strong quiver]

thats what i was trying to say

[quaint venture]

At least take me out to dinner first

[graceful mortar]

A much better approach would be to have the hardware built into the base price.

And simply charge people 250 to $300 a month for SuperCruise That's reasonable That's actually substantially more reasonable.

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/food-dinner-lunch-eat-feed-gif-17437071

[graceful mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/toast-toes-bread-gif-18285468

[red breach]

And simply charge people 250 to $300 a month for SuperCruise That's reasonable That's actually substantially more reasonable.
???????

[quaint venture]

https://tenor.com/view/bread-loaf-gif-26074250

[full fossil]

Bruh what are you not getting about this
SUPERCRUISE is an additional service that allows fully autonomous driving on roads that have been properly scanned, verified, and added to a database.
The generic ass autopilot works WITHOUT paying the subscription fee

[red breach]

that would DOUBLE my payment every month how is THAT more reasonable

[harsh quartz]

this is bad bread

[red breach]

dude you can't be 17, you're 12

please go play with the coins in your mom's purse or something before coming back, 4 quarters make a dollar man

[mild nova]

ooooo

[keen cedar]

What is this bread trend 🗿

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/toast-motivation-toaster-happy-good-morning-gif-4992612

[graceful mortar]

No no remember you we're hating on all of the I believe you said broke people....

So money doesn't matter to you. So neither should the cost. 🎤

[full fossil]

You don’t need to be a dick

[tulip willow]

why does everyone in this chat always seem to be so angry

[harsh quartz]

bread stops arguments

[mild nova]

go count coins! he says!

[queen crag]

I for one would love a bread subscription

[red breach]

I really do, this dude is being abrasive as fuck at least there's an attempt at humor on my side

[hearty spear]

you don't get to insult someone's age when you have "dank" in your name

[keen cedar]

I love bread

[harsh quartz]

i also enjoy the fact that theres #cars and yall seem to always argue about cars in this chat instead

[red breach]

dogg

[full fossil]

Cars is for those of us that aren’t malding

[keen cedar]

Chevys suck

[graceful burrow]

Happens in pilot chat constantly too

[harsh quartz]

this is the calmest NYC citizen

[red breach]

most logical debater here

[mild nova]

cause of all that dank

[harsh quartz]

american car brands suck in general

[pale osprey]

i miss when there wasnt enough chips to have super cruise and afm in gm vehicles

[keen cedar]

Can confirm

[full fossil]

Rivian?

[graceful mortar]

I'm aware of what it does and I was pissed the moment that it had a subscription tied to it.
So what exactly is your $3,000 going towards is it going towards standard safety features that are in a car that cost half as much..... Those will be the basic featurea of what you're talking about.
So if it's available on a vehicle that's half as much why would I pay $3,000 to GM.

No see super cruise option is for the hardware and then they decided ... hey this is really expensive for us let's go ahead and create an additional revenue stream that will pay out for eternity until we decide that we no longer want to support the feature and just turn it off of people's cars.

Like they did was first generation OnStar.

[harsh quartz]

dont know much about it tbh, its still too new, i have been keeping up with jerryrigeverything on his though and it doesnt seem too too bad

[bronze hatch]

german cars on top

[graceful mortar]

Very bad.

[full fossil]

We see a ton around us and they’re very nice looking

[normal cargo]

Burn baby burn

[full fossil]

Chat malding

[harsh quartz]

oh i love the look, but to me a cars #1 value is how dependable it is, and i dont know much about those cause theyre new, its the reason i only drive japanese vehicles, specifically toyotas

[red breach]

bro, I tell you, nobody that has one of these systems MINDS AT ALL having paid $3000 for the hardware and 3 years of service up front. worth every damn penny. $25 a month to support the ongoing cellular charges and mapping data is a STEAL. yall are BONKERS. BONKERS.

again, let me remind you I OWN THIS

[full fossil]

Absolutely

[pale osprey]

if anyone finds a basemodel v8 2022 silverado lmk because those things were built without cylinder deactivation and i want it. pre 07 reliability in a new truck

[red breach]

I LIVE this LIFE. You are debating in THEORY. I live it in PRACTICE

[jade snow]

it do be a good deal

[harsh quartz]

go live your life then my man

[red breach]

Tesla out here charging $10K for FSD that doesn't exist

[tulip willow]

to be fair Ford just announced $800/year pricing for Bluecruise which is just absord, $25/month isnt unreasonable

[normal cargo]

I just realised that kool is the guy I was talking about EVs yesterday with, was like pulling hens teeth xD

[full fossil]

Chat going feral

[harsh quartz]

these two keep making arguments about this every day

[pale osprey]

next is door locks for 8$ a month

[full fossil]

This is almost as bad as the linus drama

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/toast-jumpscare-gif-21501288

[normal cargo]

I'm sure I'll become acquainted with Dave at some point too then 🙂

[harsh quartz]

or just DRIVE YOUR CAR

[bronze hatch]

some people paid 200k for a tesla roadster like 6 years ago and still have gotten no return. coulda put that money into the housing market and made 100% profit😂

[queen crag]

Android Auto/Apple Carplay support for $2/week?

[red breach]

it's really really really nice to... NOT HAVE TO. Ever been driving down the highway at like 80, and then all of a sudden you get something in your eye?

[graceful mortar]

It's $25 right now Will everybody is still inside of a free subscription window.

Remember OnStar used to cost only $10 a month now it's $50....

Remember how in late 2021 OnStar jacked their prices up despite supplying exactly the same service.

It's a dangerous game and a dangerous precedent.

You're paying for a service with no guarantee of what that service actually entails.

As I pointed out GM could tomorrow decided to just turn it off and then you're going to feel silly because you spend all this money on SuperCruise and GM decided they don't want to do it anymore and you have no recourses because none of it was sold with any guarantees.

[harsh quartz]

i dont understand all these autopilot cruise control things, just drive your fucking car, why do people hate driving?

[tulip willow]

man, 1800 mile roadtrip on 97% mapped roads and only having to touch the steering wheel a half dozen times is actually pretty sweet

[pale osprey]

if you want to ride on 4 wheels and not hold the wheel then just take the fucking bus

[full fossil]

Holy fucking textwall

[red breach]

wouldn't it be great to just have like, a copilot for those times where like, you're having a moment where it would be good to look at your map?

[harsh quartz]

i would debate this, cause driving is my favorite part

[uneven rampart]

When are we going to get an update on what’s going on?

[graceful mortar]

At least with a fully subscription funded service you're not experiencing any losses.

But when you pay a bonus up front on top of the vehicle to then pay a subscription service that's a massive liability.

[tulip willow]

you certainly have the option to drive it the whole way too

[full fossil]

Never they went bankrupt

[graceful mortar]

[graceful mortar]

Because they'd rather be playing on their phone or on TikTok the whole time

[harsh quartz]

yeha but theres all this debate, i dont understand why people pay it if they want, or dont pay it if they dont want, instead of making this same fucking argument EVERY DAY in this chat

[mild nova]

any diy mesh keyboard enthusiasts here?

[thin fjord]

there's gotta be a class action lawsuit in the works

[uneven rampart]

Thanks

[harsh quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/viralhog-tired-bread-carbs-stuffed-gif-12091817

[pale osprey]

im the guy who intentonally fucks with cars in their self driving mode

[harsh quartz]

live footage of me taking abus

[normal cargo]

We could make bread a universal response ?

[harsh quartz]

we already have

[normal cargo]

Oh, bread failed

[full fossil]

I mean, no one has paid in full for a 2020s Tesla Roadster yet, they’re all reservations

[tulip willow]

yeah I'm not sure what the rub is, is it just anti-subscription? i mean, I get that, subs to everything sucks, but at least in my car they're still updating the software and adding capability and expanding the availability so paying -something- for continued development doesn't seem so bad shrug

[queen crag]

Do you put cones on their bonnet hood?

[bronze hatch]

nah i dont think so

[bronze hatch]

some people have

[pale osprey]

ill just slow to 20 under kph for someone on super cruise/autopilot and when they finally pay attention and notice they take manual control and go around

[red breach]

Remember OnStar used to cost only $10 a month now it's $50....

OnStar used to call 911 when you got in a crash. That was $10/month in the early 2000s, $15/month today.

Now, onstar premium at $50/month includes unlimited in car hotspot which cell providers themselves sell for the same price as that, but also remote access from your phone, AND that 911 crash service. And also nobody pays full price you just ask for a discount

[full fossil]

Morons they is

[harsh quartz]

idfk, these people just like to argue for the sake of arguing because they have nothing ebtter to do with their lives. all that time they save by not driving they spend making discord thesis arguments

[sage quiver]

$50k reservations

[graceful mortar]

You mean that premium OnStar that cost less than $30 in the middle of COVID.....

[full fossil]

Can y’all go to #cars or DMs or something
These textwalls of cope are getting old

[bronze hatch]

well, elon had no clue when they were releasing, so they automatically assumed the best

[pale osprey]

ive driven 15km that way once before the fucker looked up from their phone

[full fossil]

Dman
That hurts my soul

[harsh quartz]

oh but when i said that you shut me down 😦

[thin fjord]

that's just how it is in this server, changing the topic wont negate it

[full fossil]

I didn’t know it was this bad and I apologize

[harsh quartz]

kek

[queen crag]

I feel y'all would be on board with just getting a car on subscription, Volvo introduced that here.

[red breach]

have fun not having super cruise, yall

[tulip willow]

I'm new here so I was hoping this was a fluke but I'm seeing this is pretty normal. was hoping things would be a lil more mellow

[graceful mortar]

I mean we can talk on topic..... Butttt we had to implement bread in order to soak up all of the hate and insanity.

[full fossil]

My miata doesn’t have shit

[bronze hatch]

id be fine with a subscription based car if it was under 30k lol

[normal cargo]

Basically what finance is innit

[full fossil]

Mfer doesn’t even have a roof

[queen crag]

Bread is good at soaking up a lot of stuff

[harsh quartz]

it was quiet, then the ltt drama happened, then we quieted it with bread again, and now these two wont stop arguing

[pale osprey]

bread is great for pilot bearings

[graceful mortar]

Funny enough you bring up car subscriptions based on current car payments averaging $1,500 a month The insane interest rates and the massive spike and insurance because vehicles are holding value in ways that insurance never predicted so premiums are skyrocketing currently

[red breach]

tbf I yield to you

[graceful mortar]

I think a car subscription model starts to make a lot more sense now for $250 a month I can have a completely new Volvo and I can change it out every 30 days and that includes insurance

[harsh quartz]

my rav4 has an adaptive cruiser control and thats helpful but i turn it off 95% of the time cause i just like driving

[red breach]

always be giving miatas the lil blinky blinks in hopes they give me a wave with the pop ups

[marsh carbon]

So a lease+ deal

[red breach]

except that price point is more like $800

[marsh carbon]

Isnt this now just uber without driver

[red breach]

but yes

[graceful mortar]

Kinda. Lease don't normally include insurance and you can't just swap the car out every 30 days.

For instance if you live somewhere that doesn't have good weather except for 2 months of a year you change your BMW x drive base level 3 series subscription to an M5 for two months.

All of the maintenance is included The prices high but not obscene when you look at what it would cost you to do that any other way.

It makes sense

[red breach]

or... $1800 https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/2/18050020/cadillacs-car-subscription-service-shutting-down

[sage quiver]

Uber’s subscription is a weird sell nowadays

They replaced discounts with “Uber cash” back

[pale osprey]

this a channel without a theme. what part of that made you think it wouldnt be vile?

[normal cargo]

Can get an 2010 focus within the year with those savings 😄

[harsh quartz]

for someone who lives out in the boonies, uber was always a weird sell for me, i never liked the idea of getting in a car with strangers anyways

[graceful burrow]

Did you see the Grey market key site posted in #pilot-toast

[marsh carbon]

Well if your driving it wont ever include insurance

[red breach]

the problem is that any plan that includes a 3 series to an m5 would cost so much that you should probably just own an m5

[graceful mortar]

The people looking at subscriptions are not used car buyers. The people who want something new and their driveway and if they were to do a normal lease their trading in every one or two years anyways

[tulip willow]

human decency? i dunno, i'm an idiot obviously

[graceful mortar]

No like the subscription services include insurance

[red breach]

Cadillac was charging $1800/month for their BOOK service. I leased my CTS for $500 month 0 down, insurance was $180/month in NYC

[marsh carbon]

It would be very expensive

[full fossil]

no access???

[normal cargo]

Buying new has always been a bit daft

[graceful mortar]

It's also awesome because on the subscription service you never have to worry about BMW maintenance cuz it's all covered.

And if the car does happen to throw a check engine light or something you call them up and they just simply bring you a new car you don't have to wait three to six months with no loaner car
like you would if you were to have bought it or leased it.

[red breach]

Sure it would have been cool to turn it in for an escalade or whatever but like, not... three times my lease cool

[marsh carbon]

So a lease

[red breach]

yeah leases include service, loaners etc. Unless it's a real cut rate lease, you never know what deals they cook up now

[sage quiver]

Yeah, I can definitely see it being uncomfortable outside of heavily populated areas.

[graceful mortar]

Lisa's don't include all of the maintenance.

And if the check engine light goes on and it needs to be in the shop for 6 months you're just without a car for 6 months while still paying for the lease

[marsh carbon]

So a car rental

[full fossil]

lisa

[pale osprey]

you know leased cars have a warranty still right

[normal cargo]

They got warranty innit ?

[graceful mortar]

Yes. With insurance included for less than what it would cost to rent a vehicle from Hertz premier line for a week.

[red breach]

well, no. Manufacturers 100% cover rental cars when you're in for factory service on a lease

[graceful mortar]

I know but if it takes 3 to 6 months of it's sitting there at the dealership awaiting parts you're just without a car during that time.

[red breach]

the scheduled maintenence may NOT be included, but repairs ALWAYS are

[graceful mortar]

Nope. If it got way too old BMW would simply swap you out

[full fossil]

They usually have dealer owned loan vehicles

[tulip willow]

I've never not been given a loaner and had a rental comped

[pale osprey]

if its there for that long insurance gets involved and totals the car. i know form expirence

[marsh carbon]

Your asking for cheaper car rentals that include the damage waiver, who would offer that

[graceful mortar]

Yeah at $25 a day.... So you're bringing your $70,000 pickup truck and you're stuck negotiating with Enterprise to get like a versa....

[tulip willow]

heck I usually get to drive something nicer than what's in the shop

[red breach]

https://www.chevrolet.com/owners/warranty no it's literally there, "alternate transportation is to be provided"

[velvet flower]

what's up the chat is looking messy today....

[graceful mortar]

I've had it happen multiple times. Because the corporate rental limit was $25 a day and the local enterprise minimum cost was $85.

[red breach]

If your vehicle requires warranty repairs during the coverage period, the following are available:
Alternate transportation
-AND/OR-
Reimbursement of certain transportation expenses

[tulip willow]

maybe you're buying cars from shit companies?

[red breach]

with my experience leasing from GM, it's 100% been a in-service fleet loaner

[normal cargo]

Swap out ?, Different car ?. Rentals n all tho are right sticklers for things like paint damage, tyre damage, or anything they didn't spot when you first picked the car up and will charge you top dollar to get it rectified

[graceful mortar]

Nope not if the dealer claims that it's because of COVID supply issues.

I literally just went through this with my 2021 AT4

I tried everything and ultimately they bought it back but it didn't matter because the money was worth so much less now in the base model cost had gone up so much I wasn't buying another one cuz I wasn't about to pay $18,000 extra for the exact same truck.

[red breach]

like, a car the dealership had and just gave me that day

[marsh carbon]

Unless you pay more for the waiver

[normal cargo]

Well how much is that ?

Actually nvm

[graceful mortar]

Well no it's like insurance insurance not just damage waiver like your insurance cost is included in your subscription fee.

With rental cars you're still required to carry liability insurance for damage you causes somebody else's property The damage waiver just prevents you from having to pay for the rental car itself.

[pale osprey]

there is no legit circumstance where that would happen other than the model is to new to have had spares built yet. which is why insurance then totals it

[graceful mortar]

Well that's a general motors.

[red breach]

did you do lemon or BBB autoline? both have pitfalls, sorry you didn't get the good buyout

😦

[graceful mortar]

My dealerships don't run fleet loaners

The cars are more lucrative to sell versus use the loaner program due to GM's reimbursement structure versus what the dealer was demanding.

[marsh carbon]

So more expensive as you are asking for liability as well?

[pliant karma]

renting in europe was a pain on return, they claimed we damaged the paint a bit but it was already like that when we got it.

[forest echo]

Hello, is there any news on when videos will resume?

[graceful mortar]

Yeah my dealer was not willing to do that because somebody could walk in and want to buy it.

[red breach]

that's really unfortunate and, frankly I'd just recommend finding a different dealership. if cadillac and chevy dealerships in metro NY can afford to do it, like... maybe there's another more service oriented dealer in your area that does

[wicked wren]

hey didn't linus say uploads will continue on wednesday?

[pale osprey]

you should have called your insurance. they would have totaled it and gave you full value

[red breach]

that really sucks. see they had specific cars for that purpose

[tulip willow]

Stop buying GMs or find a better dealer? a warranty repair should not leave you without a car or with a subpar vehicle for months at a time

[marsh carbon]

^

[strange elk]

I like how you say "can't afford"

[graceful mortar]

Lemon. I requested a replacement new model and the executive team said nope because the pricing has gone up so much GM no longer is authorizing that So if you want the exact same vehicle it's $18,000 extra.

[pale osprey]

it would be considered mechanically totalled because they couldnt fix it /labour and storage fees are aproaching the value of the car

[red breach]

like, I'm going to name drop Pepe Cadillac they took care of me so fucking well, if you're in new york they just sat me in a new ct5 when I had my cts in for warranty work

[mild nova]

I believe the terminology was a production freeze until wed. Don't think that means a new upload on that date. Hang tight quite a few of us going through withdrawals

[red breach]

that's pretty gross. I will say the team over there did me right, cut me a nice little check on top of my 21 SoC swap. I'd absolutely feel differently if it went the other way tho

[graceful mortar]

It's all built into the subscription price.

In considering a lease for the same BMW is $500 it's really not that much cost for extreme flexibility So you're paying $100 premium of what the lease would cost for the ability to literally go no I don't want a 3 series or I don't like this color or I want one with different options or or actually hey I want an M5 for $1,100 a month.

Oh and there was no mileage limits

[normal cargo]

Yea they all do it, even the slightest marks. It's like pass the parcel and who ever rented last gets stuck with the bill

[wicked wren]

yikes

[red breach]

I feel like the whole "we could have killed your entire family and burned down your house while your car WASN'T charging" thing played into their willingness to bribe Bolt owners

[graceful mortar]

They were the only general motors dealer for 150 mi and the dealer 150 mi to the south would not authorize loaners that came into Fairbanks Alaska because of the damage they endure from the extreme weather.

[red breach]

[marsh carbon]

This is litterally a car rental + insurance, so it will be those prices

[red breach]

that sounds like the kinda anti american shit that actually grinds my gears

[graceful mortar]

Only if it was unreparable.

We had people in the forums getting into accidents and because of parts delay particularly for like frames and whatnot.
Insurance were refusing to total so customers are having to wait 8 months to get their repaired truck back which of course immediately they trade it in cuz they weren't going to deal with it.

[pliant karma]

good news is my credit card will cover the car insurance (Capitol One Venture X) as long as I do not get the insurance from the renting company. Little perk with that credit card

[red breach]

I'm a cityslicker liberal but you shouldn't be able to select against people by where they live like that, fuck, alaskans need their trucks lmfao

[chrome rover]

I tore the ram shielding in my new laptop what are the chances that if I ever used my geek squad warranty on this laptop they will care I tore the ram shielding?

it doesnt really damage any functionality

[tulip willow]

I just discovered this perk with AmEx too, game changer

[pliant karma]

no questions asked so works for me even though I never have damaged a rental car

[full fossil]

Politics 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮

[normal cargo]

There's a few ways to look at it tho innit, I mean rented anything is dead money, atleast when you're buying something it's into property you'll eventually own. There's gonna be extra / hidden costs either way. You can talk about how cars drop in value and the price difference, but if you're renting, that money will always be dead

[graceful mortar]

Ya. It's just cheaper than doing it through Hertz or somebody like that but you still have the same level of flexibility.

Hertz is like $2,000 a week. And then you still have to have insurance on top of that.

And you don't get to pick the car that you get you could just get to pick a class of car.

There's definitely a market for it now there wasn't when it was launched when interest rates are still low and payments were relatively low

[marsh carbon]

Why would it be cheaper

[pliant karma]

hell yea it is nice plus I get lounge access to any priority pass lounge and the Capitol One at DFW when I travel. Annual fee is like 395$ but boy the perks outweigh that fee itself

[marsh carbon]

Priority pass sucks

[normal cargo]

Noice,.I'll keep that in mind cheers. I use enterprise to rent vans from time to time and I just make sure I go over the entire body before I take it out.

[pale osprey]

we had the oppsite here. peoples brand new cars were getting totaled because insurance here considers a longer than 6 month turn around as unrepairable

[pliant karma]

in the US yea I see that well actually some airports

[marsh carbon]

Lounges are crap if they let you in

[sage quiver]

Eh, they're not that bad

Just often at capacity

[pliant karma]

they're good enough

[pale osprey]

deals at the insurance auction were nice though

[pliant karma]

me dealing with the one in venice, italy traveling home

[marsh carbon]

If you cant use the lounge i count that as very bad

[graceful mortar]

True. But the subscription service also covered tires.
So the subscription service was quite literally a one-stop shop. The only thing that you paid out of pocket was fuel.
Hell they even covered windshield washer fluid!
And because it was only for a 30 days at a time you could just decide to stop whenever you wanted to

With a lease you have to buy it out.
And an all fairness particularly with BMWs it makes no sense to own them outside of their warranty.
Especially with the modern ones constantly giving 10 to $15,000 repair jobs when they're out of warranty it's just not worth it just buy another one.

[graceful mortar]

I wish cuz I definitely could have used the market value of my truck which is over $15,000 more than I paid for it!

[sage quiver]

Guess it depends on the airport and time of day. I've never been outright denied, though I have had to wait ~15 minutes.

[pliant karma]

Most of the time I just go in grab some food, maybe shower, and get out never more then 1.5 hours in there unless I know ima be there for a while with my overlay

[normal cargo]

That'll be a problem with buying a BMW tho, not really owning Vs rent 🙂

[marsh carbon]

What priority pass lounge has showers

[pliant karma]

some

[sage quiver]

Many do

[pliant karma]

but yea

[marsh carbon]

Not around me

[sage quiver]

shame

[marsh carbon]

And if they do, they require long haul international travel

[empty pollen]

Often you have to look online before hand or just know.

[sage quiver]

This I certainly haven't experienced

[pliant karma]

Priority pass app 🙂 usually they tell you there what airports have it

[marsh carbon]

I know

[full fossil]

Tf kind of lounges are you using bruh

[marsh carbon]

Yeah usually the nice lounges(airline ones) will have some weird rules

[surreal forge]

What's the latest? I've been asleep for a week .

[full fossil]

The bathroom is not a lounge

[graceful mortar]

Sadly a problem with a lot of modern cars though.
Like general motors 6.2 l engines and 5.3 is like to blow their lifters up and eat the motor.
When it's under warranty GM we'll just replace the affected head and lifters.
When it's out of warranty the shop will not do it that way! They require a complete engine replacement and that's 15 to $18,000 out the door and that could be as soon as 61,000 mi... Oh and there's no guarantee that it won't continue to happen.

[marsh carbon]

Which airports do you use

[empty pollen]

Spent most of my time on the road before apps became big so often you just had to know that the good lounge with showers and comfy sofas was at the other side of the airport because you found it last time.

Layovers ended up being explorations lol.

[pliant karma]

yep I do that

[mild nova]

cars have 4 tires

[normal cargo]

Every car has their nuances and some are more reliable than others, you do your homework you should be fine. Buying new is dumb anyway but even cars which are a few years old would be worth it in a lease simply because the money you put into it isn't disapearing

[full fossil]

DFW, Atlanta, DC, San Diego, Tokyo, Singapore, Lisbon, Rota, Frankfurt, Zagreb, etc

[empty pollen]

spare?

[marsh carbon]

Dfw prio pass lounge was small and had very few things

[mild nova]

my car didn't come with a spare

[full fossil]

I don’t have a spare

[marsh carbon]

Sjc is ok

[full fossil]

Loads of new cars don’t come with spares unfortunately

[marsh carbon]

Jfk one was crap

[pliant karma]

When I was at frankfurt I went to 3 Lufthansa lounges since they're scattered through the departure terminal I was at

[mild nova]

cars have 2 headlights

[full fossil]

Mine has 4

[empty pollen]

Colorado has the half life tram that talks to you.

[marsh carbon]

Yeah airline lounges are usually the best

[mild nova]

2 headlamps + 2 fog lamps?

[graceful mortar]

That's REALLY not bad. Remember that includes maintenance and all insurance It's completely inclusive.

[sage quiver]

JFK has a bunch

[graceful mortar]

Orrr you pay this for the exact same car

But then you also have to pay maintenance such as tires and insurance on top of that. 😬😬

[mild nova]

84 months...

dafuq

[full fossil]

84 month loan 🤡🤡

[rare spindle]

Had this service in TX for 3 years, worked really well and ended up "trading in" the 2020 for a 2022 model painlessly.

[marsh carbon]

Air india lounge was awful

[pliant karma]

oh dfw was small yea. Capitol One Lounge DFW

[sage quiver]

Don't think I've been to that one lol

[marsh carbon]

Dont

[empty pollen]

Personally now though I am glad that I dont have to fly for work anymore. I saw flying in the 90s and its only gotten worse over the years.

[full fossil]

Is that terminal C

[graceful mortar]

Fine here's your 60 month

[marsh carbon]

Which do you go to

[full fossil]

60 months on a luxury car 🤡🤡

[mild nova]

pay for the car cash upfront

[graceful mortar]

Yeah but with $200 an hour being the going labor rate and how intense of these cars are and headlights costing $4,000 a piece like it's becoming cost prohibitive to keep some of these vehicles on the road and just as little as 5 years after they're built.

[mild nova]

or don't buy one

[empty pollen]

That is a rolling house note, dang.

[full fossil]

Also if you’re paying 9% interest on a luxury vehicle lmao you’re doing something wrong

[pliant karma]

D

[marsh carbon]

If i was local to dallas i would have the venture x

[pliant karma]

walk down more the AMEX Centurion Lounge was there

[graceful mortar]

Gosh darn it the stupid random pop-up strikes again!

Here's the price for the subscription

[marsh carbon]

Those are good

[mild nova]

Dude just buy a geo metro and call it good

think of all the money you save

and how cool you will look

[full fossil]

I’m sorry but if you’re buying a $60,000 car with an 84 month loan at 9%
You’re a fucking moron

[marsh carbon]

But i run a chase saphire reserve as i dont fly delta

[pliant karma]

ironically right next to american's flagship (international)

[full fossil]

And I mean this in the nicest way possible
Don’t overextend your finances. Go get a civic or corolla or something that won’t destroy you

[marsh carbon]

I fly in and out if the bay area

[mild nova]

if you are young... a car is the single most terrible decision you can make.

[marsh carbon]

SJC has an ok lounge

[tired glade]

Is avg person not that financially secured?

[mild nova]

er car loan*

[graceful mortar]

Uhh alright. Here is your completely unrealistic nobody asks for this in the banks will never ever approve it 36 month. (You'll need to be earning $150,000 a year for the bank to even consider this type of loan.)

[full fossil]

Avg person isn’t buying volvos

[graceful burrow]

"walk everywhere with your car based infrastructure"

[tired glade]

?

[full fossil]

It’s a 60,000 car.
If you’re buying this and not making $150k you’re an idiot

[mild nova]

Well what I mean is don't go into severe debt ona car

buy something that you can either buy in full or take a minimal loan on....

[tired glade]

Volvo is reputable brand, what you mean?

[graceful mortar]

Okay... So how do you get around how do you get to and from work public transport's not an option The job that hired you is 22 mi away.

[mild nova]

Forest gump had the right idea

[sage quiver]

Most recently the Alaska lounge, which appears to have since left priority pass

[graceful mortar]

Oh no average mortgage right now in my city is $3,600 a month.

[full fossil]

Also, 8.6% is adorable.
I got 5.5 on a used car loan for 36 months

[mild nova]

he jsut started running and running and running

[graceful mortar]

Currently you're at 8% for an 850 credit score.

[marsh carbon]

Alaska was on prio pass ?!?!?

[sage quiver]

The JFK lounge was

[marsh carbon]

Now im sad

[sage quiver]

Dunno about others

[earnest abyss]

I just got a loan for 6.something

[mild nova]

USED is the play 95% of the time as well.

[graceful mortar]

That's current rate with an 850 credit score for an 84 month.... Gone are the days of low interest rates the federal government won't loan into a bank for below 5% and they want to make a substantial profit and because of inflation that's where the rates are right now.

[tired glade]

Sounds avg,for how long?

[full fossil]

Screenshot 15 seconds ago

[full fossil]

I agree but that’s not the discussion here

[graceful mortar]

Of course but I was just showing like hey subscriptions actually make a ton of sense right now because of the interest rates and because of the insurance premiums.

As long as you're making $50,000 a year you should be able to afford the $27,000 that a Civic cost just don't spend any more than that and you're going to have to live with a base model.

[earnest abyss]

5 years 6.22%

[tired glade]

What is that astresk?

[full fossil]

“As low as”

[tired glade]

So that number can be anything

[marsh carbon]

What card do you use

[sage quiver]

DM.

[graceful mortar]

Oh I'm aware. Your total vehicle cost should not be more than 10% of your income. Total vehicle cost so insurance included and maintenance and car payment

[rare spindle]

Subscriptions work for some, but all in all it brings back up the whole discussion over "do I actually own anything" which is a real difficult conversation to have in the US (and probably other places)

[full fossil]

And considering I just refinanced a car with a 760 score at 5.9% 36 months I’m not sure what banks y’all are using but you should stop

[tired glade]

Just use the bus, it will be cheaper anyway

[mild nova]

go to a local credit union if you decide to put yourself in massive debt for a car.

[stoic beacon]

I doubt it's the banks...based on the spending habits of the average LTT enjoyer, their credit scores are most likely sub 400.

[graceful mortar]

Not really... That Nissan versa that was $9,995 when new? Yeah they're currently reselling for $16,000 with 95,000 mi on them.... Sooo 'affordable' sure... Obscenely bad value Yes.

[oak kindle]

printing money for 36 months straight? baste bro

[full fossil]

I see some of the most dogshit, destructive financial advice on this server sometimes istfg

[rare spindle]

Well I moved from US > EU and bought a 3 year old car for cash. Zero debt and use public transport for 90% of what I need. yea gotta agree here at least. But the US doesnt really provide accessible public transport in most places.

[tired glade]

If you can afford it, why not get something better?

[stoic beacon]

Keeps my backup career in business, so I'm not too upset. Before I got into game development, I was both a licensed CPA and CFA

[mild nova]

Tbh buying a car now and for the last 3 years has been a pretty bad idea in the current market.

[full fossil]

Sorry mods I know I abused bread roll, but I’ll always abuse bread roll to keep people from making poor financial decisions

[tired glade]

Why you bought a car in EU?

[earnest abyss]

I got a lexus but I CAN afford it

[mild nova]

I agree - he is talking about something he cannot afford.

[solar heart]

we getting any new bread today

[tired glade]

Bank should stop you,if you can't

[rare spindle]

Left the US for EU, so makes sense. Just for smaller trips where its more convienant for city > city drives etc, possibly work etc

[stoic beacon]

Banks WON'T stop you, because money.

[full fossil]

96 month loan 18% dodge challenger

[mild nova]

Zero chance... lmao. Car loans are the most predetory loans out there

[tired glade]

Oh,that bad

[rare spindle]

Think rural Denmark... if I were i an a bigger city wouldnt have bought it at all

[mild nova]

They will see your 400 credit score and slap your ass as you walk out with your new tesla

[stoic beacon]

If a bank stops you, your finances are WAY worse than you can even imagine. They'll pretty much only stop you if there's a 95%+ chance you will default on your loan.

[graceful mortar]

Not sure how, Bank would be losing money on that transaction. Fed rate is currently 5.5

[cobalt linden]

and there’s more than one mistake there

[tired glade]

I am in North Europe,my car sitting at parking place for 90% of the year

[neon mesa]

They'll slap shitty interest rate with bad credit though

[mild nova]

Yea, the root cause is cause people are stupid and don't understand money. The bank ain't a babysitter and if 2008 means anything... they have no eithics either...

[full fossil]

That’s THEIR problem, not mine

[tired glade]

What's credit score anyway?

[rare spindle]

Totally get it, i drive maybe once every 10 days so yea. Its not a car "culture" here which is fine for me

[stoic beacon]

That's what I'm saying. If they actually stop you, it's because you go in, say you don't have a job, nothing in savings, and 30,000 in credit card debt. It takes a lot.

[full fossil]

You use slidey card for free shit and they judge you about it

[hollow mango]

9% yikes. Who is doing that though?

[narrow olive]

I can't remember the exact statistic but it's something like car's are sat doing nothing for 85% of the time on average over a year in the US

[tired glade]

Roads in main city still in medieval

[stoic beacon]

Really weird system that rewards you for taking out debt (risks) and paying it off responsibly.

[full fossil]

Very, very many people