public-chat

[stray apex]

You don't even get real office

[jaunty compass]

I want someone to make a 3d printable laptop case for the steam deck so you could take the motherboard out and hook up some off the shelf keyboard and monitor module or something

[polar fern]

I mean, it is a mobile device so what’s the big deal?

[stray apex]

Just the browser version

[stray apex]

Why

At that point just buy a gaming laptop

[polar fern]

Microsoft office cloud edition

[jaunty compass]

ah yes
all of the $400 gaming laptops

🗿

[stray apex]

Ah yes
The free filament and monitor and trackpad and keyboard

[sonic barn]

uhhh

[dreamy rose]

everyones open to the idea of All AMD Steam Laptops

[sonic barn]

you realize you can just take out a motherboard and attach the steam deck to an existing one?

[jaunty compass]

filament is cheap

[polar fern]

I want someone to invent television, audiovisual equipment that actually works as advertised

[stray apex]

That's not how laptops work

[polar fern]

Okay, I really wanna try my new Apple keyboard, let’s go set it up

[dreamy rose]

no suprise, its crap

[polar fern]

It’s going to be so weird typing on that thing, after using a pro keyboard for so long

[stray apex]

Apple keyboards are fine

Their mice are stupid

[dreamy rose]

their products are stupid.

[polar fern]

I’ve never had an issue with Apple mice, except for the one with the little tiny little trackball that always got clogged and stopped working

I never purchased one of those though

[stray apex]

And yet, they're the most valuable tech company in the world

[dreamy rose]

So the charging port on the bottom is fine?

[stray apex]

It's almost like appealing to tech nerds is not valuable for a consumer electronics company

[polar fern]

They’re actually the most valuable company in the world at over $2 trillion market capitalisation

Their products are so terrible people must just be throwing their money at Apple Stores in anger

[stray apex]

The bottom charge port is just such a stupid design

That feels very

Late johnny ives

[jaunty compass]

the apple mouse having a charging port on the bottom is comically dumb

apple has to just be messing with everyone

[stray apex]

Literally every other mouse puts it up front so that the mouse can be used wired or while charging

[jaunty compass]

apple knows what they did

[polar fern]

So let me figure this out logically. The charging port is on the bottom. You charge it overnight while you’re sleeping and you get like what three weeks four weeks of use out of it? I don’t see any issue.

[jaunty compass]

it has to be on purpose

[stray apex]

Putting it on the bottom makes no sense

[hollow pulsar]

I agree. But this same company didn’t put the computer charging port on the bottom of the mac mini, ipad, iphone, or laptops, so they mist be doing something right.

[polar fern]

It’s because of the touch sensor on the top shell of the mouse

[stray apex]

What is the benefit of having it on the bottom?
What downsides are there to having it on the front?

[polar fern]

I don’t know, but I don’t use my mouse when I’m sleeping so

[craggy oyster]

nice linux mint. My second laptop had linux on it before I installed windows 7

[polar fern]

👍

[stray apex]

I don't either
But if my mouse dies in the middle of the day I'm not screwed

[plush knoll]

Do your batteries always die while you're asleep? You've never had any batteries in anything while you were awake?

[polar fern]

If it dies in the middle of the day, then you clearly forgot to charge it overnight 3 weeks in a row

[plush knoll]

So?

[stray apex]

Sure, what if you're traveling?
What if you just got back from vacation?
What if your other mouse broke so you pull it out of storage?

[jaunty compass]

transitbiker has a lot of bad takes and shills a lot of bad design decisions

[plush knoll]

Plug it in and keep using it

Like every other product on the market let's you do

[stray apex]

Bottom charging port is just objectively bad

It's a classic example of apple's descent into form over function

[polar fern]

I am not going to plug it in and keep using it. I’m going to charge it overnight just like I put my phone on the charging pad every single night unless it’s over 80%

[stray apex]

Hopefully with Ives leaving the company apple will stop making such stupid design decisions

[manic torrent]

a cover on the port that makes it annoying to use? ok that's still bad, but it's 100000000x better than charging port on the fucking bottom

[stray apex]

Bottom charging port removes functionality for literally no reason

[plush knoll]

If your phone gets low in the middle of the day for some reason do you not like that you can plug it in and keep using it?

[stray apex]

It doesn't make any sense

[polar fern]

I only use the MX vertical it’s the only wireless mouse I would bother with and when it is charging I’m not using it so it’s never been an issue and never will be

[stray apex]

You can't even see the front of the mouse

[polar fern]

I mean, you’re trying to tell me that a product I wouldn’t buy is bad

[stray apex]

You're the one defending it

[polar fern]

I don’t care where the damn charging port is

[stray apex]

Yeah, you also wouldn't be affected if they got rid of the charging port on your phone

Doesn't mean it's a good idea

[polar fern]

No, actually, I wouldn’t

And guess what things I’m going to buy? things that are good for me to use. I know it’s unbelievable.

[stray apex]

Anyways
Useless tangent aside
Apple mouse is a stupid design

[polar fern]

I actually cannot stand wireless mice and keyboards

[jaunty compass]

a lot of apple's design is absolutely asinine

[manic torrent]

yeah why would you want a mouse that you move around not to have wires

[stray apex]

Eh, their newer stuff is mostly pretty good

[polar fern]

The only reason I even have an MX vertical which is wireless because of my damaged tendons

[jaunty compass]

like, it looks pretty but functionally it's awful

[stray apex]

Again
Apple silicon fixed most of that

[jaunty compass]

the macbook airs still thermal throttle lol

[stray apex]

Not for the target audience

[polar fern]

Imagine going on Discord and complaining about a product that you don’t use

[plush rivet]

Apple currently has one of the best laptop CPUS on the market

[stray apex]

Air performs well in bursty loads, which is all it really needs to do

[plush rivet]

idk what you mean saying it’s bad

[jaunty compass]

it's literally their integrated silicon on their integrated device

if it doesn't thermal throttle on any device it should be in their devices 💀

[manic torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[polar fern]

🤣

[plush rivet]

M2 is legit one of the best laptop cpus on the market

idk what you mean saying it’s bad

[stray apex]

All laptop CPUs thermal throttle

[polar fern]

Okay, let’s go plug in this new keyboard

[stray apex]

That's like, the primary limiting factor for laptops

[jaunty compass]

I'm not calling the m2 bad, i'm calling the fact that the macbook air has no cooling bad

💀

[plush rivet]

Welcome to any laptop ever

[polar fern]

The iPhone and iPad don’t have cooling either, and they seem to do just fine

[plush rivet]

Most laptops have trash cooling

[stray apex]

Except it doesn't affect the tasks that the air is designed for

[wind pulsar]

That's like.. the whole point of the Air

[manic torrent]

..... it does have cooling.

[plush rivet]

That’s like saying a laptop is trash because it can’t cool as well as a PC 🤣

[polar fern]

I need to head out from here before I lose any more brain cells

[stray apex]

Air only thermal throttles under prolonged loads

Which is really not what the thing is meant for

[jaunty compass]

the chassis, sure.

[plush rivet]

No….it has actual cooling.

Like I’m not sure what your talking about

[stray apex]

Like yes, you could also render video on an XPS 13 and it would probably throttle

That doesn't make it a bad laptop

[jaunty compass]

are we talking about the same device?

[plush rivet]

Yes, but I’m not sure you know what your talking about

Do you by chance have a MacBook?

[wind pulsar]

Just because it's passive cooling doesn't mean it doesn't have cooling, lol

[plush rivet]

^

phones passive cool and they’re fine

[jaunty compass]

I think we have a different definition of fine

[plush rivet]

Please answer this question

[stray apex]

It performs the tasks it's expected to

[jaunty compass]

the macbook air has one of the most pathetic cooling solutions i've seen in a laptop

and i'm looking at a teardown right now

[wind pulsar]

It performs as you'd expect it to bruh

[manic torrent]

.... it is fit for purpose.

[dreamy rose]

they dont have cooling when they are half pasted.

[stray apex]

Do you think MacBook airs regularly like, freeze up because they're throttling?

[plush rivet]

Do you even own one yes or no

[manic torrent]

it has as much as it needs to and no more

[plush rivet]

I’m not about to take an opinion from someone who hasn’t even used the product

[stray apex]

Have you even like, checked a benchmark of a MacBook air?

They're fine

[dreamy rose]

So you're saying all they need is a Half pasting?

[jaunty compass]

they only need to use 2 cores

[polar fern]

last time using the old pro keyboard for a while. ❤️

man this thing is tiny

[full fossil]

You need huge mechanic keyboard with big keys

[polar fern]

nah this works fine

its literaly 100% easier to type on

[full fossil]

Than what? OwO

[stray apex]

Big mechanical keyboards are cringe

[polar fern]

its just so "not there" compared the chongus pro keyoard

[stray apex]

Need to be at least tkl

Ideally smaller

[full fossil]

They are bigger than you

[stray apex]

They're massive

[polar fern]

just like my face

[full fossil]

https://www.qwerkywriter.com/

This one OwO

[stray apex]

...that's just using cherry MX blues

[full fossil]

Good xP

Big click

[stray apex]

Doesn't even feel properly typewritery

Or sound

I don't think typewriters made loud clicky noises

[manic torrent]

... lol

[full fossil]

I never had a real type writer xD
Also learning dvorak layout would be so cool OwO

[lapis valley]

what's the metal thingy on the side?

[full fossil]

I don't remember xD I don't have it, only watched one review many years ago

[polar fern]

They literally call their products toys

[stray apex]

I think actual typewriters have a different tone than blues

[manic torrent]

hahahhaha I actually owned a qwerkywriter.

[full fossil]

That's concerning xD

[full fossil]

Was it bad?

[manic torrent]

dude it's an expensive keybaord that looks like a typewriter, of course it's a toy

[manic torrent]

honestly I like it, I just realise I didn't really have a use for it, and it didn't match my aesthetic

and it was really fuckin expensive 🙂

So I sold it, having used it like 3 times

[full fossil]

I see, I think the only use for it is typing OwO

[full fossil]

I see xD

[covert moth]

OMG GUYS AND GALS! ok so..... i made a cuppa coffee this morning. and for some reason i was looking around in the fridge (was gonna put creamer) but then i saw the black currant jam... i took a spoon and put 2 tbs of Jam into my coffee and stirred it. i then took a sip and NEAT! its got a sweet/sour berry coffee taste ! i like it 😄 im glad i made this little discovery! GIVE IT A TRY !

PS: i think it may only work with coffee or an espresso(change portion size for espresso), dont think it would work for tea...

[polar fern]

welcome to the world of things with flavor

[manic torrent]

yeah but I have way more keyboards than I can use at any time.

ok bed time for meeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[plush rivet]

Gn @manic torrent

[full fossil]

Goodnight xD

[cerulean saffron]

Would it be worth setting up my first build - i5 2310, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM as an Ubuntu server? I plan to host a modded minecraft server on it... I also have a i7 7700k / 24GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM storage server that runs on Windows 10 Pro. I can't use WSL so I'd have to use VMWare to emulate the Ubuntu server.

Which would be faster? VM on 7700k or bare metal i5 2310?

[sonic barn]

what do you use it for

I don't know minecraft

[cerulean saffron]

Will host a modded minecraft server (Fabric 1.19.2), nginx DoT/DoH/DNS proxy server with Pihole, Nextcloud instance with basic file storage, etc etc

[jaunty compass]

My man, use a hypervisor

[sonic barn]

sounds like ur exiting one should do it its kinda overkill for that

don't use windows for it though

[cerulean saffron]

Not in the mood to setup Hyper-V on Win10... Conflicts with stuff that's already using VMs

[sonic barn]

use some light weight thing like alphine os and host docker containers for each

[cerulean saffron]

I already have Windows 10 on the 7700k build... Setup and working perfectly. Last restart was 6 months ago

[sonic barn]

but you're consuming power for no reason

[wraith sonnet]

🤔 should I get it for the pain it will cause at LTX?

[cerulean saffron]

Power isn't really that much of a concern... I downclock CPU to 2.1 GHz (below base clock) and it's using barely 10w power on the CPU

[wraith sonnet]

Literally building the worst modern PC possible

[sonic barn]

idk why you need another one though

just use docker containers

[wraith sonnet]

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/NedOfTheNet/saved/#view=K97W99

[sonic barn]

that way you can backup everything and you got the ram for the containers

[wraith sonnet]

Should I get the 4100 and swap from the 3200?

[sonic barn]

no

4000 and 3000 aren't a big jump

[cerulean saffron]

Docker is really annoying to deal with... one container for each task, each container will need it's memory, I'd rather have 1 ubuntu server VM and do everything on it instead

[sonic barn]

try to get a new gpu

[wraith sonnet]

I'm trying to cause pain and the 4100 doesn't support PCIe gen 5

[sonic barn]

very unoptimized and if something breaks ur screwed

[wraith sonnet]

You misunderstand, this is intentionally bad, look at the OS

[cerulean saffron]

I setup a perfectly functional ubuntu VM until OCI decided they don't want to keep letting me use the free tier and just deleted the VM 😂

It had no downtime for 5 months straight

[graceful burrow]

One thing's gonna break and destabilize the entire thing lmao

[cerulean saffron]

I haven't had any problems with a single VM instance doing everything so far

[wraith sonnet]

Aldo you know what I'm trying to do, should I get the 4100 or stay with the 3200g?

[sonic barn]

they move you over to the free tier after 30 days and wipe the trial vm

[wraith sonnet]

Oh and bobs here

[manic torrent]

....... I see you don't understand containers

[graceful burrow]

Do it

[manic torrent]

I wasn't but someone was being wrong

[wraith sonnet]

I'm going to cause pain at LTX

[cerulean saffron]

OCI has a BS "Free forever" tier and after 6 months they randomly said I broke tos and deleted everything without warning or notice...

[sonic barn]

also anyone ever get those tesla gpus

I wanna get a used p40 for 100$

[wraith sonnet]

Should I get a hotswap bay for once the joke is done?

[cerulean saffron]

I used pihole with a docker container for 2 years... I find it much more convenient to use one VM for that. Also planning on hosting wireguard, openvpn, maybe ikev2 servers, zerotier moon and tailscale DERP relay nodes

[sonic barn]

you only get a limited amount of requests

its meant to be used as a website hoster

[cerulean saffron]

How does anything justify deleting data without notice

[manic torrent]

you're doing docker wrong

[manic torrent]

you got what you paid for

[cerulean saffron]

lol yeah... agreed, should've known better. I thought when it's big companies like Oracle, their word can actually be trusted but apparently not.

[manic torrent]

2f25914426a9 homeassistant 0.56% 346.3MiB / 15.54GiB 2.18% 0B / 0B 211MB / 34.5MB 52

[wraith sonnet]

Unless you have an ARC GPU, wait

[sonic barn]

I only watched the first movie then never looked at harry potter again

[wraith sonnet]

Actually serious

[manic torrent]

super racism and TERF: The game, it's crap and sucks 9/10 IGN

[sonic barn]

they made java paid

[full fossil]

Are you kiddiing me, that's the worst idea, google "docker compose", you can literally set up super advanced kafka, php, nodejs server within like 30 seconds,
Docker is a tool to eliminate wasting time setting up everything and installing dependency packages,
It's the greatest tool ever and I used it on everything

[sonic barn]

docker makes u lazy, just open a container someone else setup for x thing

this guy is clearly big brain hosting everything on windows 10

[full fossil]

Exactly, I love it xD

[full fossil]

It's bed time xP

[median idol]

"Too much water" -IGN

[cerulean saffron]

I don't want an already setup container... I did my own setup of everything. I just need to recreate it as of now... For quick setups, ik docker is perfect

@full fossil @manic torrent See... My entire server is gone since yesterday and I need everything I did to be back up and running asap. No doubt docker and containers would be better, but as of now I don't have time to learn how to set them up instead of using the single-vm-for-everything setup I had before.

So, all I want to know is - will i5 2310 / 8GB DDR3 bare metal be faster than VMWare with the same specs on a 7700k and 24GB DDR4 RAM

[sonic barn]

docker documentation or youtube tutorials will get you up to speed

[cerulean saffron]

again... don't have much time, just need things to work again, even if it's inefficient

[sonic barn]

site not loading for me

stuck at transferring data

[sonic barn]

you're paying money operating it like this and wasting more time later

[graceful burrow]

What are you doing here then

Go set up your poorly managed server

[sonic barn]

could be vpn

ok now it loaded

[cerulean saffron]

I'll change this server setup later when I have time... inefficient doesn't matter that much to me rn

[sonic barn]

I'm on hide.me just to get out of the school campus throttling

they blocked spotify and youtube

[cerulean saffron]

Repeating the same question yet again --

Between bare metal i5 2310 / 8GB DDR3 and VMWare VM of the same specs on i7 7700k / 24GB DDR4, which one would be faster

[sonic barn]

almost everything is

even facebook

and all vpn sites

[hollow pulsar]

I finally figured out why so many folks on Windows 11 have this new Task Manager look and feel and I don't.
I'm running Win 11 21H2.
Should I keep running this just to slap MS in the face?

[sonic barn]

ikev2 is the only thing that works

[graceful burrow]

Try it and find out

[sonic barn]

blocked

all proxies are blocked

changing dns does nothing too

I tried proxies before and they all didn't work

I just use either riseup or hide.me

Both are free

protonvpn used to have ikev2 for free

[neon mesa]

it's not free now??

[sonic barn]

ikev2 nope

[hollow pulsar]

Are we assisting with bypassing the owner of the computing device's wishes?

[neon mesa]

well i switched from proton to windscribe like a year ago

[sonic barn]

you had to set it up manually and now its dead

[neon mesa]

windscribe is really nice

[sonic barn]

I'm good its just for spotify

[neon mesa]

not to mention build a plan

idgaf about the 90 countries you have when i only use one

[sonic barn]

I use them but its not unlimited, only 10gb a month

hide.me and riseup are unlimited free

[neon mesa]

when it comes to paid option windscribe is one of the good ones

i have a singapore + US + unlimited data plan for like 3 bucks a month
easily the cheapest and fast VPN

[sonic barn]

I just don't like buying anything I don't need

[cerulean saffron]

ah definitely not... 😂 I could've fired up a VM and tested which one is faster by now, if I hadn't asked. Learning from every experience bit by bit

[neon mesa]

oh also windscribe has local payment option which is a BIG double U

[sonic barn]

I mean u can just use a prepaid card

then once it runs out just activate a free trial somewhere

[neon mesa]

not available in my area

i have to use local e-wallet

[sonic barn]

I do the free trial thing with a ton of apps and such

leave 1$ on it then ez

gamepass has those 3 months for 1$ sometimes

[neon mesa]

gamepass is not for me personally

my game interest is too niche

[sonic barn]

u can use it online

like play forza on your phone

[neon mesa]

i mean gamepass don't got games that interest me

[sonic barn]

ori?

[neon mesa]

and don't really need x-cloud since i run private cloud gaming server

[neon mesa]

what's ori?

[sonic barn]

💀

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1057090/Ori_and_the_Will_of_the_Wisps/

yes

I think the devs said there's no more ori games though

but the series is so good

there's ori blind forest, then ori will of wisps

each game is like 8 hours

[neon mesa]

i'm a sim-games kind of person

[sonic barn]

then there's a cool game soma

[neon mesa]

256 hours seem rookie but i acquried that in like 1.5 months

[polar steeple]

That's 6 hours a day

[neon mesa]

however i play roblox the most

but then in roblox the game type is about the same

my most play time is actually GTA V 💀

thanks to the grindy ass gameplay of that game

yeah dwarfed everything else

[sonic barn]

the best games on gamepass imo are:
dragon age origins, 2 , inquisition, ori games, oblivion, soma, age of empires 2, halo wars 1 & 2, unsurgency sandstorm, terraria, the walking dead (telltale), torrent: tides of numenera

I have 1300hours in csgo but its more like a chat lobby than an actual game

[timid meadow]

People sleep on Superliminal and Phantom Abyss. Easy at least in the top 5 on there

[sonic barn]

also 1k hours in rocket league because I liked it before epic bought psyonix

[sonic barn]

I never played those

also there's a cool free game coming out next week like arma 3

https://store.steampowered.com/app/736590/Operation_Harsh_Doorstop/

[neon mesa]

don't know, don't know, don't know, don't know, dont't know, know Age of empires but never played, owned halo already, i suck at FPS, not a fan of terraria, TWD is fine, don't know

well i guess gamepass is definitely not for me kek

[timid meadow]

Phantom Abyss is a first person rougelike. Superliminal is similar to Stanley Parable in how it looks and feels but its a puzzle game based around optical illusions

[sonic barn]

at least try the ori games

100% worth the money

its on the switch too and all that

[neon mesa]

i'm exclusively a PC user

i don't want an underpowered handheld that is switch

if i'm getting a handheld it's prob steamdeck

though steamdeck is basically a PC

[sonic barn]

try it on the steamdeck

the first one is cheap sometimes

[drifting swallow]

I fucking love DCS

I wanted to be a pilot as a kid but couldn't, so it's been the next best thing.

[drifting swallow]

What do you fly?

[timid meadow]

Im planning on either getting a steamdeck or building my own portable wii. If i go the portable wii route id add a raspi to the case, allow room for a bigger screen then most portable wiis and be a poor mans steam deck

[drifting swallow]

The steam deck is awesome. I highly recommend it

[sonic barn]

rapsberry pi is like 200$

[drifting swallow]

Yeah they're being scalped for absurd prices

[timid meadow]

I wanted to get steamdeck when it dropped, started to save up for it, then my rent went up 😦

[sonic barn]

you might as well get those cheap handheld pc things on aliexpress

they can run wii games

[drifting swallow]

I ended up virtualizing some software I had previously been using pi's for, since it was too expensive to keep buying more.

[timid meadow]

Bro ik im using a zero w i had laying around for a project right now. Cant find any pis anywhere

[neon mesa]

take a guess, American Navy

and not old

[drifting swallow]

Tomcat, B model

[stray apex]

Steamdeck is nice, but if you don't play games on the go it's kind of pointless

[stray apex]

Probably an f/a 18 then

[neon mesa]

yep

[timid meadow]

Ive already got a wii. Can take a dremel to the motherboard and make it tiny

[drifting swallow]

That was going to be my next guess

I almost exclusively fly the tomcat

I fly the A-10 ocassionally

[neon mesa]

when i bought F/A 18 it was between that or viper
but i like A2G and absolutely blasting people in one circle

i own the A-10 but the A one only

[drifting swallow]

Same

[neon mesa]

and the Su-27

but since i own the 18 i basically never fly the 27

[drifting swallow]

ew, communists

[neon mesa]

i lost count on how many times i ripped the wings because i abuse the cobra button

[drifting swallow]

[neon mesa]

my flight setup is rudimentary to say the least

[drifting swallow]

Same, HTC-Vive with an okay HOTAS

[neon mesa]

it's the extreme 3d pro joystick
cheap logitech webcam
and handdrawn paper marker

i don't have a printer at home and can't get my ass to the copy shop

[drifting swallow]

I'm lucky to have some 3d printers, so I'll be making my own setup to mount everything

Have you seen the warthog guy on youtube? Guy has an insane setup.

It's pretty much just a full cockpit

[neon mesa]

i saw

the one with the 3 projectors?

[drifting swallow]

Yeah, it's crazy

[neon mesa]

there are people with actual F-16 cockpits

[drifting swallow]

I'm very jealous.

[sonic barn]

I got the htc vive too

<@&750150305383186585>

[neon mesa]

i will be getting the Quest 2 after i upgrade to a Ryzen 5 3600

and 32GB of RAM because 4YA server kills my 16

[sonic barn]

my htc vive is still good but I plan on upgrading when the index gets cheaper

or htc releases a cheaper model

[neon mesa]

index is rigged with issue

Pico Neo 4 is a worthy upgrade

[sonic barn]

yeah the cable

[neon mesa]

everything about it

[sonic barn]

tiktok headset

[neon mesa]

while valve is a good company and will replace evrything

RMAing a lot is not a fun experience

the Lighthouse and stick is also known to break often

[sonic barn]

pico is owned by bytedance

I don't want their stuff

[neon mesa]

yeah so?
you would be using it as a PCVR headset it doesn't matter

[sonic barn]

I trust htc more

if something goes wrong

or valve

I do not trust bytedance

[drifting swallow]

Probably going to upgrade to the pimax 4k. The vive is a bit too old now

Now that I've got that new promotion money

[sonic barn]

I mean I only played alyx and some vrchat on it that's about it

its not super sharp

but you don't notice the stuff

[drifting swallow]

I'm using mine for VR flight sim. Reading instruments or identifying far away aircraft is difficult with it's resolution.

[sonic barn]

yeah

[stray apex]

Could get a reverb g2?

[sonic barn]

the games I played don't care about that

I also tried minecraft vr and that was scary but fine

creepers are so scary

[stray apex]

Had a reverb
Controllers kind of sucked
But doesn't matter so much for flight sim

[neon mesa]

heard the controller tracking sucks

[stray apex]

Tracking was workable

[neon mesa]

having your headset limited to one game is not a good option

[stray apex]

WMR controllers use a lot of batteries and the haptics kind of suck though

[sonic barn]

use google

[stray apex]

Quest controllers are way better

[sonic barn]

we aren't google

[stoic beacon]

Yeah, the best use I've found for WMR headsets are flight sims, racing sims, etc.

Otherwise, Index and Quest 2 stomp absolutely everything

[sonic barn]

quest 2 looks so front heavy

[neon mesa]

yes we do

[stray apex]

It's okay
Better with aftermarket strap though

[full fossil]

no

[neon mesa]

actually i lied
we have interdimensional portal inside our body so we never need to dispense liquid

[stoic beacon]

Maybe if you have a weak neck, I guess...I did get a different strap for it, because the adjustment method on the default strap is crap

[stray apex]

I got a strap that takes a magnetic battery

To extend battery life
Have I ever needed it
No

[sonic barn]

but yeah if you're getting a quest 2 I'd rather get the pico one since its about the same price and you get a better headset

both steal data but pico one is better

[stray apex]

Better how

[stoic beacon]

Pico One is most certainly not better than Quest 2 lol

[sonic barn]

higher res and better controllers

[neon mesa]

steal data don't matter as a PCVR device

[neon mesa]

the Pico 4 is superior in every metric except like the game library and some software bug which doesn't matter for PCVR

[stray apex]

Quest 2 res is fine for normal games
And I really doubt the controllers work better

[stoic beacon]

The controllers are definitely worse, and the refresh rate is 75hz. That's awful.

[sonic barn]

pico 4 is about the same price

which is what I'm comparing

[neon mesa]

Pico 4 is 90hz

[sonic barn]

its 90hz

[stray apex]

Tracking seems to be worse, though

[sonic barn]

they are the same

[stray apex]

At best, yeah

[stoic beacon]

Ah, you said "Pico One" which threw me off

[sonic barn]

meant the pico alternative

[full fossil]

boku no pico best animu

[stoic beacon]

But yeah, the controllers still look less ergonomic, and the reviews online point out that the tracking is considerably worse...I'd take the Index over either one, but if you made me choose between Pico 4 and Quest 2, it'd still be the Quest 2 for me. 120hz, resolution is pretty high, and support for it is very good

[stray apex]

Dies pico also support wireless?

[full fossil]

yes

[stoic beacon]

Yes

[full fossil]

no

[stoic beacon]

I don't go in that chat, the people there are dumber than rocks

[sonic barn]

its like 1 hour more runtime than the quest 2

[neon mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqysq8srn1o

[sonic barn]

I've seen people say the cable fails

because if u step on it it can pull out

[neon mesa]

the index itself is a good headset

[stoic beacon]

That sort of goes for any cable lol.

[neon mesa]

but i see that it has controller issues, lighthouse issues, and more

and lack of wireless is not desireable either

[stoic beacon]

I have anywhere from 3000-4000 hours on the Index, and I haven't had a single issue yet, not with drivers, not with tracking, nothing

[neon mesa]

not to mention it costs a lot for such a problematic hardware

[sonic barn]

quest 2 is 3640mAh, pico 4 is 5300mAh they use the same snapdragon chip

so its about 1 hour more

[stoic beacon]

That's not how battery measurements work, sorry dude.

[sonic barn]

how does it work then

[stoic beacon]

There's a lot more to consider, like software optimization, screen display methodology, etc.

It's not a number to number comparison.

[neon mesa]

people have done testing on it and it definitely lasts longer

and the pico 4 weight balance is a lot better

[stoic beacon]

Now that, I agree with.

[sonic barn]

quest 2 consumes more power for its 120hz display

so that does not work

[stoic beacon]

Unless you toggle it down to 90, since it gives you the option

[sonic barn]

still 3640mAh is 30% less than a pico 4

[stoic beacon]

If you want to discuss/debate VR headsets, you may want to actually use them first honestly, because this is just sad to watch.

[stray apex]

Well, VR isn't really big enough for them to get great economy of scale

[sonic barn]

you seem so keen where is this "most"?

[stray apex]

They're struggling to make quest 2 affordable as is

And that thing is ancient

Well

Relatively

[sonic barn]

because 30% difference in battery capacity is a big jump

look at laptops

[stoic beacon]

So because the S23 Ultra has a 5,000 mAh battery, it'll last WAY longer than the 3,200 mAh iPhone 14, right?

[sonic barn]

that's like a 70wh battery vs a 49wh battery

[stoic beacon]

So because the S23 Ultra has a 5,000 mAh battery, it'll last WAY longer than the 3,200 mAh iPhone 14, right?

[sonic barn]

those are different chips

[small zephyr]

😭 so nice to finaly use the 3D printer after trial and error compiling firmware for it

[sonic barn]

the pico 4 and the quest 2 use the same cpu

[stoic beacon]

But they benchmark almost the same, so if the power is the same....what's the difference? Could it be......software?

[sonic barn]

benchmark because they have the same chip

[stoic beacon]

You don't understand how much more optimized the Quest 2 software is, and until you understand that, you will always be wrong about this.

[sonic barn]

wattage is different

[sonic barn]

show me the benchmark

[stoic beacon]

I was trying to help him understand what he's not understanding here

[sonic barn]

I have one for the pico 4 vs the quest 2 rn

[stoic beacon]

But he's been doing this whole "I love being an idiot on the LTT Discord" for a LONG time now

It's like a daily routine

[sonic barn]

no because u guys don't now what you're talking about

[night heron]

i do

i know what i’m talking about

[stoic beacon]

....right, I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to VR....right.

[sonic barn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9R35ip-wTA

[night heron]

if i don’t know then i’ll just say i don’t know or i’ll apologize for being wrong afterwards

it’d be crazy if everyone did the same

[sonic barn]

yes

[stoic beacon]

Are you still not aware of what I do for work?

[stray apex]

Yeah, 109 vs 117

[stoic beacon]

Why would you post something that proves us right, and you wrong?

[sonic barn]

dont care

didn't ask

[sonic barn]

which is just one test

[night heron]

the quest runs at 72hz by default

[stoic beacon]

You've been screaming about 30% difference for the last 15 minutes, then posted something demonstrating a 7% difference.

[night heron]

and almost no application or games will even support over 90

[stoic beacon]

I can't comprehend this level of idiocy lol

[sonic barn]

for one test

[stoic beacon]

We're talking Quest 2 here

[night heron]

yeah the quest 2 defaults to 72hz

[stoic beacon]

No, that was the Quest 1

[night heron]

when i use mine it doesn’t

[stoic beacon]

Quest 2 is 90hz by default, and you can change it to 120hz for the games that support it

[night heron]

in the oculus app it says 72hz (recommended)

when using oculus link

[stoic beacon]

Something definitely broken there

[night heron]

is it 90hz default outside of link

[stoic beacon]

Yes, and it should be 90hz default with link as well

[night heron]

weird

i just reinstalled windows last week and when i installed the oculus app and paired my quest 2 and setup link it defaulted to 72hz

and listed that as the recommendation

[stoic beacon]

I wonder if it's detecting your hardware and trying to give you a good "performance" experience

A lot of pieces of software tend to estimate downwards

[night heron]

the oculus app also tells me my hardware doesn’t meet minimum spec requirements

when i have an i9 10900, 32gb ram, 2tb 4.0 nvme, and 6900xt

[stoic beacon]

That's what I'm saying, Oculus might be estimating downwards for him heavily for some reason, and like he said, it's saying he doesn't meet minimum requirements

[night heron]

facts

[stoic beacon]

Ah....Oculus app doesn't play nice with AMD GPUs at all

[stray apex]

Radeon stuff isn't great for VR, so

[night heron]

it fucking sucks

[stoic beacon]

AMD GPUs don't play nice with VR at all, actually

[night heron]

i’m able to maintain 72fps in blade and sorcery on max settings but no antialiasing

and i can run like 2x render scale and still maintain 72fps

[stoic beacon]

Yeah, that's pretty rough...I have all the post processing features turned on, max settings, AND I get 120hz, with a 1080

[night heron]

i probably would too

considering i can use double render scale with max settings

[stray apex]

You can probably turn up the settings manually

[night heron]

you can ingame yeah

[stray apex]

Radeon stuff isn't that much worse than Nvidia in vr

[stoic beacon]

Some of the post processing just won't fully function though, or cause flickering/artifacting if the drivers aren't truly ready for it

[stoic beacon]

It really depends on the game and the headset

[neon mesa]

thank god i switched form 6600xt to 3060 12GB

[night heron]

i set the render resolution in the oculus app to 5k and then set the ingame render scale to 2x on top of that and it was still fine

[stray apex]

Sure, but just in terms of raw performance
Support might be wonky

[lilac sage]

sometimes theres a driver/hardware issue with Radeon in VR. ppl complain on the subreddit or forum and ppl usually see that.

[neon mesa]

another reason to pick green over red

[night heron]

i haven’t had any issues with vr with my card personally

aside from oculus telling my hardware doesn’t meet spec when it clearly does

[sonic barn]

@stoic beacon
https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/meta_s_quest_2_headset_has_recieved_a_7_gpu_overclock_with_its_latest_update/1

With their latest Quest 2 software update, Meta has increased the standalone VR headset's maximum GPU frequency from 490 MHz to 525 MHz, which is a boost of 7%. This update is available now to all Quest 2 users, and does not require any developer intervention to utilise in software. This change can increase the rendering resolutions of some VR games, and reduce instances of framerate drops in others. That said, the update does have its limitations.

According to Upload VR, Quest 2 users can only currently use the headset's 525 MHz mode when they launch software and then remove and put back on their VR headset. This odd requirement is part of the Quest 2's v47 update, though this requirement is due to be dropped when update v49 launches.

Meta has not confirmed how or why they have increased their Meta Quest's maximum GPU speeds, though it is likely a response to other VR headset manufacturers, some of which use the same SoC as the Quest 2 but operates it at higher clock speeds. One example of this is the Pico 4, which features a maximum GPU clock speed of 587 MHz.

[stoic beacon]

I'm hopeful that as AMD's market share grows, they'll start developing drivers that function with VR applications, and that game developers keep focusing on making games that run better with AMD cards

[night heron]

you keep saying the drivers don’t function for vr when it works fine for me

[stray apex]

They work
They're just probably worse

[night heron]

i can play blade and sorcery at 5k max settings with my 6900xt

[stoic beacon]

It's not that it doesn't work, it's that it is limited

[jaunty compass]

I've never had a problem with my VR on my AMD gpu

6600 XT

[stoic beacon]

At 72hz, and missing a bunch of post processing settings. That's the rough part.

[night heron]

i’m not missing post processing features

enabling and disabling them ingame works

[stray apex]

Sairento kept breaking on my 5700xt a couple years ago

[jaunty compass]

120hz beat saber at my quest 2's full res

Idk what you're talking about tbh

[night heron]

i can set the refresh rate higher than 72hz manually if i want to that’s just what it defaults to

[neon mesa]

any VR game with DLSS/FSR? and how is the experience?

[night heron]

you wouldn’t want to use that fiona

[stray apex]

Don't think so?

[night heron]

the render resolution is already way too low

[stoic beacon]

I'm talking about things that are outside of the game. Nvidia's systems that are unique to their GPUs

[neon mesa]

well considering all i got is a 3060

[night heron]

vr headsets ideally need to be 8k per eye

[jaunty compass]

Afaik AMD have fixed their drivers a lot in the past year
So I'm not saying you're lying. I'm just saying that I haven't experienced any problems

[night heron]

3060 shouldn’t have any issue with vr

[neon mesa]

yeah by sacrificing to like basically turd graphics

[stray apex]

I wouldn't expect amd gpus to be terrible in vr
I'd expect them to have more problems than Nvidia cards though

[stoic beacon]

That's sort of what it takes to run resolutions that are acceptable on basically two screens at the same time, while also performing advanced tracking and physics

4090 was a big jump forward, but we're still not quite there yet for an "optimal" VR experience

[stray apex]

A 3060 should be fine in most VR games

[jaunty compass]

There's a reason VR games don't try to be hyper realistic

[night heron]

optimal vr would be 8k per eye with a self emissive display and 360 degree wireless full body tracking

[stray apex]

Most VR games are designed to work well on mobile processers at this point so

[stoic beacon]

Which as Michael pointed out, would be something along the lines of 8k per eye

And I would add, a very wide FOV, and a refresh rate of at least 120

[neon mesa]

fuck seems like DCS in VR gonna be a dogturd visual experience

[night heron]

you shouldn’t have any issues with vr fiona

[neon mesa]

not without selling my kidney for an actually powerful GPU

[full fossil]

how are you enjoying hogwarts legacy

[night heron]

people were playing these same games on gtx 970 back in the day

[stoic beacon]

It shouldn't be bad, it's just not going to be the "same" as playing it without VR.

VR gets away with having worse graphics because the immersion pays off

It's also why it's hard to get people into VR in the first place. The graphics look bad on YouTube, and people don't want to try it out. The immersion is what makes it good, but in order to know what that's like, people have to try it.

[night heron]

with at least 120fps, ideally 240

with as light of a headset as possible

[stray apex]

I think that has more to do with the cost and inconvenience

[night heron]

and finger tracking gloves

[stoic beacon]

I would have agreed with that, up until Quest 2 came out

Now, it's no longer a $3,000 entry fee

It's $400

[stray apex]

Still basically the cost of a new console that you need a reasonably large empty space for

[night heron]

it’s surprising how well the quest works considering it’s basically a 2017 android phone in a plastic shell

[stoic beacon]

True. Convince people to give up coffee/McDonald's for a month, and then they can get a VR headset

[stray apex]

And playing it involves isolating yourself from everything, which isn't the best experience

[neon mesa]

still a lot for a PCVR experience

[stray apex]

Sub pcvr

[neon mesa]

like over 1k easily

[stray apex]

Still gotta buy games

[neon mesa]

unless you already got the PC it is pricy

[stray apex]

At least they're including beat saber now

[night heron]

it’s not expensive imo

[stray apex]

It is for a niche tech that's still in it's infancy

VR just isn't very good right now

[night heron]

being niche would justify it being more expensive

[neon mesa]

you need a at least $1k in the PC and another 400 for the headset
for wireless that's extra $100 for proper networking setup

[stoic beacon]

I'll take a $400 VR setup over a console that sells me games for $70 that I have to pay $15 a month just to play, that are the same addiction style garbage that has been coming out for the last 10 years.

[night heron]

you don’t need a thousand dollar computer

[stray apex]

At least people will make games for the console

[stoic beacon]

We're not talking PCVR, we're talking the entry cost of a $400 headset. That's all you need to try it and experience a LOT of it.

[neon mesa]

3060 plus 5600 is easily over 1k

can be down to 850 if used part

[stoic beacon]

Forget about the PC, that's not what we're talking about here.

[night heron]

you don’t need a 3060

[stray apex]

With vr you'll be happy if you get one good game every year

[night heron]

i had no issues playing vr on my 1070

[stoic beacon]

Thankfully, that's changing rapidly

[night heron]

you also don’t even need a computer it works on its own

[neon mesa]

i was talking about PCVR if you see my top message

[stoic beacon]

Yes, but we aren't, so...

[night heron]

[neon mesa]

one chat doesn't need to exclusively hold a single convo

[night heron]

vr runs on a $100 gpu

[neon mesa]

that's what replies are for

[stoic beacon]

And one person doesn't need to force the standards of the conversation they think they're having on an entire group

[night heron]

it’s not expensive anymore

[neon mesa]

and i was talking to michael and you are the one coming in

[stray apex]

$400 for a platform that doesn't have a lot going on is a lot

[night heron]

no actually i’m primarily talking with ethan

[stoic beacon]

Actually no, the cost thing was brought up by Light, and then I came in, and then Michael came in, and THEN you came in.

[neon mesa]

like really i am not forcing anyone

[stray apex]

Realistically people are gonna play beat saber
And uh
I dunno

[night heron]

force deez

[neon mesa]

you can easily have parallel conversation

it's not hard

[stray apex]

Shooters kind of suck on vr

So that's a huge market gone

VR is inherently isolating

[neon mesa]

because surprise shooting a gun is not as easy as regular FPS

[stoic beacon]

Eleven Table Tennis, Synth Riders, Blade and Sorcery, Audica, Pavlov, Beat Saber

[loud bramble]

anyone mind helping me

[stray apex]

So it's not ideal for family play

[stoic beacon]

There's a list to get you started having fun

[stoic beacon]

#1027757333117415424

[gilded quest]

https://dontasktoask.com/

[loud bramble]

im waiting.

[stoic beacon]

Plus the games that are coming out in the next 2-3 years are going to be fun as well

[loud bramble]

bro my device like mouse which i connected through my docking station is not working

[stray apex]

Like half of those are rhythm games

[stoic beacon]

Half Life Alyx, Arizona Sunshine, Superhot VR, Walking Dead Saints and Sinners, Pistol Whip

Gorn, Lone Echo, Until You Fall, Onward, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, I Expect You to Die

Vader Immortal was awesome too

There's no lack of VR games.

[stray apex]

And those are all old by now

There's definitely significantly fewer VR games than any alternative

[stoic beacon]

You should check out r/patientgamers, everybody there doesn't need a drip feed of fake content to satisfy their addictions

[stoic beacon]

Yes, because they're VERY difficult to make

[stray apex]

Sure, but that doesn't matter to the consumer

VR is expensive, there's not a lot of titles for it, you need a 6x6 space somewhere private to use it

[stoic beacon]

I am aware of that, which is why the majority of gaming is done on mobile devices, because the consumers are easily addicted, and the games are easy to make. Plus, you can cash out on them very quickly

Just like how fast food is more commonly consumed than a nice restaurant, there will always be those that want to make nice food and those that want to eat it. VR is the same thing, but for games.

[stray apex]

The only reason we don't have any microtransaction filled VR games is because there's not enough VR users

[stoic beacon]

Some devs will want to make good games, and some people will want to play them. The rest can have their recycled content and old tech. It's easier to make and easier to consume, but just because more people want it doesn't mean it's the only thing that can exist

[stray apex]

A f2p game with microtransactions probably wouldn't even be profitable

[stoic beacon]

Beyond that, a lot of VR devs tend to care more about their projects, especially because they don't have giant producers breathing down their necks to add MTX.

[neon mesa]

there needs to be a "mass exodus" of VR

but even facebook took an L

[stray apex]

Yes, because publishers have tried and failed to make VR games

[neon mesa]

perhaps apple VR can be the answer

because people buy apple cuz apple

[vital gust]

Yeah chatgtp is cool but have you heard of Eviebot?

[stray apex]

Valve is basically the only one to have successfully made an AAA vr title

[vital gust]

Man I remember Eviebot

I was with my friends

[stray apex]

Apple doesn't really do games though

And the rumored price sounds very enterprise focused

[vital gust]

Also remember cleverbot

Anyone else this old?

[neon mesa]

the point is it needs to be moreeee marketed i guess is the word

the thing is if someone gonna make something mainstream it's always apple

[stray apex]

I mean, oculus had a Superbowl ad

And they do plenty of online advertising

[neon mesa]

generic ads aren't effective imo

[stray apex]

And not even apple can make a VR headset that costs thousands of dollars mainstream

[gilded quest]

been a while but yeah

[stoic beacon]

Have you seen what Apple users put up with lol?...

[gilded quest]

is cleverbot the one someone hooked up to 2 google speakers and let them have a conversation on twitch

[stoic beacon]

That was my point earlier. Advertising VR is tough, because the thing that makes it good is the immersion. You can't get that through advertising of any sort, only by actually trying it out.

[neon mesa]

and apple is the only one who can say bullshit and be taken as innovation

really apple is a master at making something more popular as much as i dislike them

they sell 20 bucks fucking microfiber cloth

and sold out

[night heron]

my macbook should arrive today

[stray apex]

I have read that apple rejects the metaverse
So that's a positive

[neon mesa]

they sell $999 monitor stand and managed to sell them out

apple reject the metaverse not for what you think

they wanna make the "appleverse"

come on they're apple

[stray apex]

They already have their own ecosystem

[neon mesa]

when's the last time they use existing ecosystem

they always do their own

[night heron]

yeah thats like

the entire point of apple itself

[gilded quest]

mac pro wheels tho

[stray apex]

That's not what a metaverse is though

[night heron]

it's supposed to be a closed ecosystem

[ocean narwhal]

It'll be so fucking frustrating if Apple made an actually good vr headset

[stray apex]

Rumors are that they're just doing a dev kit style thing for like 3k

But apple will probably actually create the first real mainstream VR/ar

[gilded quest]

here we go

[night heron]

<@&750150305383186585>

[gilded quest]

[stoic beacon]

I don't know, I'm frustrated that Apple made a good phone and a good laptop, because I would love to use them, but can't, since they don't work with 90% of my stuff

[night heron]

[gilded quest]

adios

[full fossil]

trole

[gilded quest]

trole

[wind pulsar]

I meaaaan, it certainly doesn't belong in this channel, but I wouldn't say thats NG yet

[full fossil]

t role

[stray apex]

The point of a dev version is so that you can release one later for cheaper, yeah

Not even apple expects consumers to spend $3000 on whatever

[neon mesa]

apple's perfectionism also means we won't have something like this

[stray apex]

Still, they've already stuck M1 in an ipad so

[stoic beacon]

Unfortunately, even less of the software I use works on Linux, so that's also a no-go

[night heron]

you ever put shredded cheese in a tortilla and microwave it?

[gilded quest]

i've never been that depressed

[stray apex]

I feel like apple probably just has more realistic expectations for what people actually want

I don't know many people who actually want to be part of Facebook's metaverse

[night heron]

vr headset with a m2 would be op

[gilded quest]

m1 vs m2 isn't gonna be that meaningful

[stoic beacon]

If it's already difficult to get people to develop VR games for regular hardware, do you think they'll really want to develop for Apple's special hardware?....

[stray apex]

Yeah, either way will shit on the snapdragons

[ocean narwhal]

Because they will be locked down and unable for anything that isn't sucking tim apple

[stray apex]

Yes
It's apple

[neon mesa]

honestly VR's approach for getting things to games first isn't right
if you think about it a lot of gaming shit we use today originally was business items

[stoic beacon]

We'll see.

[neon mesa]

games usually comes later

[gilded quest]

it'll ship with whichever one it ships with

[neon mesa]

same case on mobile phones

[stoic beacon]

That's why Apple making an AR headset is more likely than VR. More business applications for that

[stray apex]

Yeah, but the tech isn't there for proper ar glasses so

[ocean narwhal]

I'll quit from industry the day any company expects me to make a meeting in AR lol

[stray apex]

Consumer level AR is just smartphones

[neon mesa]

don't need glasses, passthrough will do like Quest Pro, and i'm sure apple will do better than meta

[gilded quest]

but i think apples ultimate goal is glasses

[stray apex]

Apple made airpods cool
I don't think they can make wearing a VR headset around cool

Like, maybe bulky glasses

[neon mesa]

oh they definitely can

[stray apex]

But strapping a whole ass VR rig

[neon mesa]

apple's VR will prob look stylish

[gilded quest]

you say this as if Google Glass wasn't cool

[stray apex]

Glass was great for picking up other nerds

[stoic beacon]

Apple brought back watches

[stray apex]

Yeah, but there's only so much they can do about volume

[gilded quest]

Glass found a niche in industry later on

[neon mesa]

one thing is to never underestimate apple's ability to get the sheeps to buy

[stoic beacon]

I remember people relentlessly mocking others for wearing watches because "my iPhone can tell the time," and then when Apple made another device that could tell the time, everybody bought it

[stray apex]

You just can't look cool walking around with a quest on

[gilded quest]

100%

[neon mesa]

because quest is ugly

[stray apex]

It's too big

[gilded quest]

retrospectively, its crazy that glass came out 10 years ago

[stray apex]

It doesn't matter how you design it, it's going to look a little weird

[neon mesa]

apple is very conservative
if they jump in VR sure as hell something is cooking

[stray apex]

They're working on ar

[gilded quest]

are they gonna ship controllers tho

[stray apex]

Because apple needs growth

And they can only sell so many iphones

Head mounted AR is the natural step up from smartphones

[gilded quest]

fortunately for them every youtuber buys half a dozen iphones each year /s

[stray apex]

Their stuff with airpods is also useful

Rumors are that it's expensive and dev focused

[night heron]

apple is class leading in many aspects

[stray apex]

So it's not a consumer release

[gilded quest]

the first version might lean more towards AR/VR

im curious what kind of apps we will see aside from games/media

[cloud dove]

That’s a self inflicted wound

I know I know

[stoic beacon]

Something that integrates super tightly with their existing software, for sure

[gilded quest]

horizon workrooms but for facetime?

[stray apex]

That's the other issue with vr
It's not better than pancakes for most tasks

[stoic beacon]

Maybe, but you mentioned enterprise level, and nobody uses Facetime aside from small calls. Businesses all use Teams or Zoom at this point

Or Google Meet, if they're really small

[stray apex]

And why even bother strapping on a headset for a meeting

Doing it on a screen is perfectly fine as is

[gilded quest]

uhhhh
apple headset doesn't seem like an enterprise push

[stoic beacon]

I could see it being useful for certain fields. Architecture, engineering, etc. Having 3D models in your workspace would be amazing

[gilded quest]

exactly

[night heron]

knowing apple if they do ar/vr theyll have a ton of marketing of how you can integrate it into your lifestyle

instead of actually talking about its specs

[stray apex]

Well
The rumors are that it'll be roughly 3k
Apple isn't that delusional

[quiet inlet]

Hello, does anyone know how to enable telnet history in Windows 11?

[gilded quest]

google pushed glass enterprise for industry as a way to give workers a personal HUD

[stray apex]

Yeah, which is the right move if you want it to be mainstream

[gilded quest]

the dev version will be 3k

[stoic beacon]

I mean, of the 200-300 people I know that have MacBook Pros that they paid $3,000 for, they take them to coffee shops and watch Netflix on them, nothing more.

[stray apex]

People just want to know what it can let them do
The specs don't matter

[stoic beacon]

I'd believe that plenty of most Apple users would pay $3,000 for another Apple gadget, especially if it's sleek. I don't often encounter Apple users that have just one or two Apple devices. They seem to always have them all.

[stray apex]

Yes, which will be the first one out

We have no idea what any future devices will be

[night heron]

i only had an iphone until recently when i got an apple tv

ive never owned an ipad or apple watch or mac

[gilded quest]

keep in mind most apple users buy the base iphone and macbook air
not pro maxes and $3k MBPs

[stoic beacon]

Not the ones I know lol...

[night heron]

you should look at the average tech illiterate person when you make assumptions of what products people buy

not enthusiasts

[stoic beacon]

As much of a shitshow of gamer consumerism that this Discord is, I don't think that most people here lean into that intense Apple consumerism mindset as many people out there do. Most people have no idea what they're buying

[gilded quest]

same in my circles, but the sales numbers don't lie

MBA is the best selling laptop in the world

[night heron]

its arguably the best laptop in the world for most people too so it's not surprising

[stray apex]

MBA is probably the best overall laptop in the world so

[stoic beacon]

Ah, I didn't realize they broke it down more than just "Macs vs iPhones vs other"

That's all I ever see

In fact, I can't find the stats you're referencing at all, but I might not be looking in the right place.

[stray apex]

It would be pretty hilarious if apple managed to make wearing a VR headset fashionable

[stoic beacon]

"When it comes to what’s most popular between MacBook Air and MacBook Pro, you might guess it’s the more affordable Air. But as it turns out, MacBook Pro is the leader accounting for 54% of Apple’s laptop sales which also makes it the most popular Mac overall."

Ah. So I was right.

[gilded quest]

im pretty sure apple said the MBA was the best selling laptop in the world during one of their livestream events

[gilded quest]

sales in terms of dollars or units

[stoic beacon]

Units. https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2023/01/most-popular-mac-cirp-report-1.jpg

Apple users buy the more expensive one because it's more expensive.

[gilded quest]

hm

apple definitely said the stat about MBA, but it was probably before the revised 14/16 pros came out in 2021

[stray apex]

Might be from businesses preferring pro?

[gilded quest]

so my stat was from mid 2021???

[night heron]

i cant wait to see apple start using rgb-oled panels in their macbooks around 2025/26

made by samsung display

theyre gonna be so gorgeous

[gilded quest]

they definitely do

[stray apex]

They're going pretty hard into microled

[night heron]

what form of micro led

[stoic beacon]

There are not many businesses that use MacBooks in general. Most industries in the world rely on software that does not run on MacBooks at all.

[night heron]

micro leds as pixels themselves or micro led backlighting

[gilded quest]

literally every web dev company buys MBPs

[night heron]

because they already confirmed theyre switching to oled panels made by samsung in a few years

[stoic beacon]

That's why I said most industries, instead of specifying one like you did....

There's more to the world than programming.

Believe it or not...

[gilded quest]

lies

[stray apex]

I'm pretty sure most industries just need something that runs Microsoft office

[night heron]

not sure why there's so much fearmongering over oled when people have been using it on their phones forever

but muh burn in

is your phone burned in?

[ocean narwhal]

Yes lmao

My s9 was totally fucked on a pure white screen

[stoic beacon]

I wonder if it's because phone operating systems are designed around their screens, whereas TVs and monitors will be displaying existing tech that is NOT designed for OLED.

[night heron]

content isnt designed for any one kind of display

[ocean narwhal]

TVs aren't as disposable as phones so it's even more important to avoid burn in

[night heron]

and phones have static elements all the time

[stoic beacon]

True, but think about how the Always On Display of phones moves around by one or two pixels every 30 minutes

There are intentional design elements to prevent this

[gilded quest]

https://www.youtube.com/live/q5D55G7Ejs8?feature=share&t=3635
apple said MBA at WWDC 2022
so i guess MBP has overtaken since then

also apple doesn't disclose unit numbers anymore

[ocean narwhal]

Apple got the business degree

[stoic beacon]

Whereas, somebody accidentally leaving their Xbox on their screen for 3 months straight every night could end up with a piece of the UI stuck on there

[night heron]

the rgb oled panels in the upcoming macbooks are a lot more similar to phone displays than they are w-oled or qd-oled tvs though

theyll be a lot more burnin resistant and have proper subpixel layout hopefully

should be absolutely gorgeous

[stoic beacon]

Hopefully yeah, and since it's all within Apple's ecosystem, Apple should design around it anyways

Screen burn in definitely is an overhyped issue, but it's still good to be aware of the possibility when you're designing software

[night heron]

definitely very overhyped

[finite cloud]

I’m surprised this hasn’t burned into my screen yet

[night heron]

there's many people in the oled_gaming subreddit who post photos of their lg tvs theyve been using as monitors with thousands of hours

[stoic beacon]

Doesn't that appear and disappear often?...

[night heron]

along with color uniformity test photos with no isues

[finite cloud]

No it stays on the screen at all times unless you’re in specific apps

[stoic beacon]

LG makes good displays

[gilded quest]

my oled c9 hasn't seen any burn in; but its only used for gaming and media
never static PC elements like web browsers or office documents, etc

[stoic beacon]

Yeah, that's my point, you probably have...maybe what, 2 hours of screen on time a day? And if it disappears in certain apps, let's assume maybe 500 hours a YEAR of that bar being there.

You will replace your phone long before that burns in.

[finite cloud]

Probably…but still it can happen if I used my phone enough

[night heron]

i get 7 hours of screentime usually so i should see burn in eventually

[stoic beacon]

True. I guess if you took the time to replace your battery, the screen burn in MIGHT beat your battery death

[night heron]

it's worth the tradeoff of the display not looking like dogshit

[finite cloud]

You’re the first person I’ve seen that reported that. What phone do you have

[stoic beacon]

I think the bigger issue is with devices that are plugged in and running for much longer periods of time

[stray apex]

Yeees
2 hours

[stoic beacon]

Yikes.

[night heron]

how is 4 hours yikes

[finite cloud]

Ah, I have one too. I haven’t seen any burn in

If there is any i probably wouldn’t notice

[night heron]

it would be disingenuous of me to act like rgb oled phone displays and w-oled/qd-oled are the same though

rgb oled is substantially more efficient and phones are so high ppi that they can have aggressive pixel shifting and you cant see it

[stoic beacon]

Either way, adopting the technology is good for the tech long term, even with issues

[night heron]

troo

cant wait to see them do it

[stoic beacon]

If nobody bought Macs until Apple released the M1 laptops, they never would have happened

I wonder if Microsoft Access will ever come out for MacBooks...there's almost 1,300,000 accountants in the US that Apple could maybe win over to MacBooks if they could get Access on there

[night heron]

it's estimated that apple has around 1 billion individual customers so who knows if they even care about gaining another million

[gilded quest]

i really wanted to get my ex a macbook but she needed windows for Access

[stoic beacon]

True, but they could get really slick business deals to go with that too. The accountants could now have MacBooks for laptops, and Macs for office use

[gilded quest]

so she got a crappy HP with a terrible trackpad

[stoic beacon]

Accounting firms are stuck with Windows until that happens

[night heron]

that's assuming a million accountants would be willing to relearn how to use a new operating system

[stoic beacon]

Apple has 55% market share in the US for phones supposedly, but only 17% for laptops/desktops

[stoic beacon]

That's fair

[night heron]

ive never used macos but i will for the first time tonight

[stoic beacon]

I played around with it for pretty much all of January for the first time, on a 16" MBP. I was very impressed by some parts, but geez......there's a lot of downsides

Even beyond 17 of my programs not having a Mac version

[polar fern]

New keyboard who dis

[night heron]

who dis

[stoic beacon]

The window management was the most irritating part. I finally understood why nearly all Mac users use everything in windowed form, dragging stuff all over the place

[night heron]

is there not window snapping

[stoic beacon]

That, and all my devices constantly disconnected

[polar fern]

There is

[night heron]

phew

[stoic beacon]

Not without a crappy third party tool.

[night heron]

eh

[polar fern]

I literally was just using my Mac mini about three minutes ago so I’m not sure what you’re talking about

[night heron]

i got the most universal compatibility macbook ever made so im not worried

all the ports and any operating system i want

2015 15"

[polar fern]

Ooo

That’s the one with the card slot, right?

[night heron]

i dont remember but probably

[stoic beacon]

https://techwiser.com/snap-windows-on-macos/ Have fun with this

[stoic beacon]

Yeah, I think most of the issues I was having with compatibility had to do with wireless devices

[polar fern]

what model was this?

[stoic beacon]

16" MBP M2

There were...a lot of issues, but the OS was pretty, that's for sure.

[night heron]

if i don’t like mac os i’ll just slap windows 10 enterprise ltsc on it

[polar fern]

Oh, I’ve never used one of those. No interest in the newest stuff

[stoic beacon]

I only had interest because of the hardware capabilities. I knew the software was going to be tough, especially since my daily use programs aren't on there, but I didn't realize the functionality of MacOS itself was so limited.

Like I said though. Very pretty.

[polar fern]

It’s not limited?

[night heron]

there’s an ongoing project to get linux working well on arm macbooks

it’s already functional at a basic level

[stoic beacon]

Now that would be interesting

Same efficiency with the processors and everything? Could we expect the same battery life?

[night heron]

even if you had to sacrifice 25% performance to emulate x86 they’d still be better laptops than anything else

[finite cloud]

Ive seen that linux project. It’s pretty interesting

[polar fern]

so you didn’t see that there is a command line terminal, console, or like 15 different utility/management apps, or any of that?

[manic shard]

i js thought of something random
so basically when amd makes a new processor or graphics card they would test it with THEIR products right? they wouldnt test an amd processor with an nvidia gpu? so does that mean since the processor was made in use with a amd graphics card that would mean they communicate with eachother better than an intel cpu and an amd gpu?

[finite cloud]

When windows is available (or it might be alright) then they will be the best laptops you can buy with gaming laptops coming in close

[polar fern]

@manic shard they’d test with a wide mix of things

[finite cloud]

I’m sure they test with other stuff. It’s a PC, manufacturers need to expect us to mix and match

[stoic beacon]

There's a lot more to it than that. But they're tested with lots of different compatibility tests. The main thing that you have to worry about is individual drivers. Running an Intel CPU with an AMD GPU is not really different than running an AMD CPU with an AMD GPU. The AMD is AMD either way

Buy the hardware that works best for your situation

[polar fern]

I always think it’s funny when Windows users try to use macOS

[finite cloud]

I use both and it gets confusing

[polar fern]

The backend stuff that most people never use can be quite different in how things are configured

Like the language and menu layout can be different as well

[stoic beacon]

I will say, Spotlight was amazing.

[polar fern]

I actually don’t really use spotlight 🤣

[stoic beacon]

I would kill for that on Windows. "Everything" is alright, but it's still not as good as Spotlight.

[polar fern]

On a day when I’m caught up with house stuff and I have some energy I could spend hours in the command line and going through some of the firmware stuff to really customise things. I have yet to do that with the Mac mini.

[finite cloud]

If you download power toys you can actually get a spotlight-like feature

[stoic beacon]

I use PowerToys Run already, but it's still not as good lol

Spotlight pulls up programs and files simultaneously, and it only pulls up one instance of each, which is the real selling point

Sometimes PowerToys Run duplicates stuff

Which muddies up the search

[finite cloud]

Oh weird. Well to be honest I haven’t tested it but I accidentally brought it up a couple times

[stoic beacon]

It's nice, it tends to go a lot faster than Win11 search

[indigo trellis]

best budget gpu?

[stoic beacon]

Win11 search is great about...70% of the time, which is not awesome

[finite cloud]

It does, every time I use w11 search it lags

[indigo trellis]

and can gpus be connected to laptops?

[stoic beacon]

eGPUs can (external GPUs). But it's moderately complicated.

[finite cloud]

Yeah if you have an egpu enclosure

[indigo trellis]

what bout normal ones like rtx 3060

?

[stoic beacon]

Need an eGPU enclosure, like ThatOneGuy said

[full fossil]

I just bought a g102 lightsync and it has a problem similar to this video https://youtu.be/b_i6HOikkeQ does anyone know a fix,thanks

[stoic beacon]

And you need a laptop that can support it

[indigo trellis]

no other way?

[finite cloud]

Did you expect to plug it into the laptop?

[stoic beacon]

No, you need a way to plug it into the laptop, and laptops don't have giant PCIE slots

[finite cloud]

I wish that’s how it worked that would be hilarious

[indigo trellis]

yes and no

[stoic beacon]

Just replace all the ports on the side with one

Laptop will sit at an awkward angle, but hey

[finite cloud]

So basically a box like this

As for the best budget gpu, what’s considered budget for you?

[polar steeple]

There are those 2 ASUS laptops that have external PCIE slots

But that's not budget lol

[mild elm]

No

[stoic beacon]

No, that's not worth it

[mild elm]

Um

I am extremely animated right now

I’m jumping up and down in rage

[stoic beacon]

Relatively speaking, yes. You can do far better for a similar price, or even slightly higher price.

[mild elm]

More than you

[finite cloud]

$60 seems overpriced for 4 fans

No….no they’re not

[gilded quest]

are you looking for validation in a purchase decision, or do you want our genuine input

cause I wouldn't pay $60 for nzxt fans

[mild elm]

Um

[stoic beacon]

Noctua is one of the better ones. NZXT has...issues for many reasons. I personally don't trust them anymore

[mild elm]

You put a completely irrelevant gif

That contributed nothing

[gilded quest]

i think arctic has rgb versions of the p12/p14

[mild elm]

They do

Those are great

[stoic beacon]

Yes