Cause they did actually use TWA, even though in my opinion it would've been quite a bit easier to say Trans World instead
#Flight Sims (MSFS, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, FS98...)
rustic charm
reef isle
Yeah TWA is sort of understable
AFAIK it was just "TWA" (but without the phonetic spelling)
but man, Eastern... 😭
rustic charm
AFAIK it was just "TWA" (but without the phonetic spelling)
Yeah, that's what's on all the recordings
reef isle
These once legendary airlines are being totally forgotte by everyone but a handful of people like us...
Only exception being Pan Am
I think almost everyone knows "Clipper" for PAA
rustic charm
Yeah
I wonder
If they know European callsigns
Like, if you fly as BOA
Will they know
reef isle
When I used to fly Piedmont a lot (PAI) it did happen a few times that I got called Clipper by mistake 😆
So far my European Experience has been alright
reef isle
but I believe that's because Euroscope makes it a lot easier to put the C/S remark next to your plane, and that gets passed from controller to controller too
so, generally as soon as they realize and write it down then you'll probably be fine
rustic charm
Not knowing EAL or TWA...
rustic charm
reef isle
not because we're "experts" but just because we happen to know about historic aviation
rustic charm
Now I'm thinking which other callsigns could you use to confuse the controllers...
reef isle
well, considering my flying habits, you can just look at my Volanta and pick one at random
and that will probably do it lol
reef isle
PSA has been fine so far
AirCal too, interesting enough
sometimes you get people using "Smiley" (which is actually its actual callsign depending on how you look)
West Coast controllers are just SUPERIOR I guess hahah 😆
the funniest thing is when you fly with a really obscure one, you call, and then for 1 second it's either absolute silence, or just "eeeerrrrrrrr", before they repeat your callsign very slowly as they're trying to understand what to say 🤣
I did get that with Interflug a few times
haha
"eeeeeeerrrrrrr.... Inter....flug(????)"
Air Inter is another crazy one that nobody knows about, and the probably strangely weird French pronounciation (that I don't even try to do) doesn't help
rustic charm
I did get that with Interflug a few times
HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW INTERFLUG
dusty sky
It's a dead airline that's how
reef isle
To be fair, it only happened a few times, most times they (seemed like) they already knew
rustic charm
It's literally one of the coolest European airlines ever
dusty sky
Ah yes
One of the most known airlines in the world vs an airline that hasn't existed for 30 years
reef isle
Oh, somehow in my equation I totally forgot that Lufthansa is still active
well, if that doesn't tell you something about my way of thinking, I don't know what would
dusty sky
Correction, 35
rustic charm
Also, thanks for reminding me I need to get an Interflug 310
reef isle
Also, thanks for reminding me I need to get an Interflug 310
You absolutely do
rustic charm
(Cause that's the only plane that exists in MSFS that I could fly for Interflug)
dusty sky
Not knowing Eastern is pretty diabolical tho
reef isle
indeed
dusty sky
I feel like an aviation fan has heard of eastern 401 at least once
rustic charm
Southern
Could do Midwest too
I reckon not many know it
AH FUCK
Of course
How will I fly Interflug
If Schonefeld doesn't exist
We desperately need someone to make Schonefeld
reef isle
If Schonefeld doesn't exist
Fly to and from BER
reef isle
And just pretend anything south of 25R/07L doesn't exist
rustic charm
I guess that's the only option
reef isle
It's wrong, and the airport's not great either
It's not that wrong, BER is a sort of Schönefeld expansion
rustic charm
Well yeah, kinda
reef isle
Kinda is doing a lot of work, I know haha
rustic charm
I guess if you pretend the whole thing doesn't exist, it works
rustic charm
Yeah
Honestly, genuinely wish someone made a good quality option that would remove the thing
At least it's not like we have tons of IFL planes and no proper hub... the A310 is our only option
trim harbor
At least it's not like we have tons of IFL planes and no proper hub... the A310 ...
not yet!
(please il62)
fickle oar
civic aspen
civic aspen
Haha this is BAD
civic aspen
London Luton
rustic charm
That might be easy with the scenery SDK
Tbh I never really got the hang of the SDK so I don't really know
dusty sky
y'all have smooth landings?
trim harbor
dusty sky
my best was 22 fpm
rustic charm
Meanwhile me
dusty sky
like on the positive
rustic charm
I definitely need to redo that
Didn't even manage to get to the planned destination either
trim harbor
back home
rustic charm
Fuel was rather thin after more than 6 hours in a 727, and I think I pushed it for speed a bit too much lol
dusty sky
I mean does this even count
trim harbor
crazy that ua ctually counted that
dusty sky
like besides that I have this
which uh
I kinda slammed it on purpose
I'm gonna say I have a lot of landing that are more than -1000 fpm
rustic charm
The actual smoothest landing I remember I had was on a FDX 777 delivery from PAE to Memphis
dusty sky
like this wasn't good
rustic charm
I deployed reversers late because I didn't realise I actually touched down 
dusty sky
this one was ok
dusty sky
this landing was so smooth I didn't even realise I touched down
like I had to go to outside view
anyway A330
trim harbor
anyway A330
you're missing the right FD
dusty sky
I always forget to turn it on
rustic charm
Can't wait for PMDG 744s so I can do Rossiya ops
Sochi autodrome there, watched F1 for the first time there. Back in 2015 iirc
reef isle
i really have to fly more in south america lo
That's what I always tell myself before promptly going back to the US/EU/Japan
Just like "I'll fly the MD-11 more"
Followed by me flying literally everything BUT the MD-11
rustic charm
Fly the MD-11
dusty sky
trim harbor
dusty sky
Soooo?
reef isle
what r some SA md11 airlines
Rome SA?
trim harbor
south american airlines
idk any but latam and gol 😭
the tfdi is also lacking abunch of liveries on flightsim.to i feel
reef isle
Oh I misread 🤦♂️
Errrr, I don't actually know
Don't think any of the big ones had it
Oh
VASP, VARIG and TAM
those are probably the biggest ones
trim harbor
do we have a proper a300 for msfs24
i keep mixing it up with the a310
which one was the better 'premium'
reef isle
300 is better
rustic charm
VARIG MD-11 ops were cool
They had a roundtrip between Rio de Janeiro and Hong Kong
It was Rio de Janeiro - Sao Paulo - Johannesburg - Bangkok - Hong Kong - Bangkok - Johannesburg - Cape Town - Sao Paulo - Rio de Janeiro
rustic charm
Yeah, I think all ini planes do
Also I think VASP never actually had any -600s
Looking at it, they didn't even have B4s
They had 3 A300B2s
rustic charm
And almost in snowy Moscow
Btw is FS20 supposed to actually show snow? I have a friend who was quite certain that FS20 doesn't do winter at all
rustic charm
Oh yeah, I constantly had that in the beginning lol
No landmarks cause those fuck up the terrain in Domodedovo
trim harbor
@reef isle @rustic charm for VOR navigation, what tool do you guys use to find the VORs
and how do i actually traverse a trans atlantic flight with a vor
reef isle
<@329176818483593228> <@711142647061807114> for VOR navigation, what tool do you...
Navigraph charts
trim harbor
idrk how to et across the atlantic yet
simbrief added a new tool that calculates VOR to VOR routes
handy i may say
guess we doin astro navigation 💪
rustic charm
and how do i actually traverse a trans atlantic flight with a vor
Dead reckoning/celestial nav
The only way really
Generally oceanic flights started using INSs as soon as those became available
reef isle
In the olden days IIRC there were some boats with navaids on them
rustic charm
As early as the 707 days
reef isle
Dead reckoning/celestial nav
But now it's just that
trim harbor
oh yeah the l1011 has ins im retarded
doing vor to vor would be a funny change however
reef isle
doing vor to vor would be a funny change however
DAL manual states that INS wasn't needed for intra-US flights and could be left in STBY or ATT
So, have fun 😄
trim harbor
oh thats actually a fun fact, so they used VORs in intra-usa and INS on intl flights?
rustic charm
Yeah tbf within the US, VOR nav stayed as the main way for a long time
reef isle
oh thats actually a fun fact, so they used VORs in intra-usa and INS on intl fli...
Captain's discretion I'd assume
trim harbor
sick
reef isle
It just says it's not needed and you don't need to bother with it, unless you're crossing an ocean
rustic charm
Pretty sure you'd see planes with no INS/GPS equipment as late as the 90s
trim harbor
lets see their standard shall we
rustic charm
Already planning your 1011 ops? XD
rustic charm
trim harbor
Already planning your 1011 ops? XD
yes im a sucker for twa
fickle oar
fickle oar
rlly wish ini would redo this plane
the a300 handles like a toy icl even with the premium
trim harbor
rlly wish ini would redo this plane
it's fine id say, still a pure (worse) xplane port
i enjoyed the xplane one alot as it flew quite well
the performance on release was a sight to behold in classic ini fashion
rustic charm
I think this cargo is European
rustic charm
The plane really doesn't want me to input flex
Oh
It needs F before the number
Haven't seen that before
Now pushback isn't working, cool
trim harbor
It needs F before the number
thats normal on modern airbuses
rustic charm
It is?
dusty sky
Now pushback isn't working, cool
Gsx?
rustic charm
I've not put F in any plane yet
Not the 320, not the 330, not the 343
Not even the 380 I think
rustic charm
And the reversers don't wanna deploy...
I think MSFS really doesn't want me to leave this stand lol
dusty sky
Does msfs just not like you flying A340's
trim harbor
using vamsys for the first time rn
playing around creating my own thing
it's actually quite well made and userfriendly
trim harbor
Toolbar pushback, and the built-in EFB pushback
i had my issues too btw
you're not alone
👍
rustic charm
With some great pain I managed to powerback
They really need to crank up the light intensity
Can't see anything with the taxi light
Switched the nosegear to takeoff and still could barely see
I'm taxiing with full takeoff lights on cause that's the only way I see the markings in front of me
fickle oar
Can't see anything with the taxi light
i think mrsaturday is working or has released a patch for it
civic aspen
They aren’t that washed out on my monitor, I guess technology really hasn’t captured HDR Screenshots yet
trim harbor
took hours but think i've got a good number of TWA routes from JFK down
dusty sky
Fly to Bucharest bro
trim harbor
I dont think they ever (directly) flew from their mainland US
Probably from their european hubs however
dusty sky
Do that fraudy af Aeroflot l1011
rustic charm
Aeroflot never had 1011s
dusty sky
This is what I mean
rustic charm
Ah the proposed one
Yeah I'm pretty sure Aeroflot never actually intended to buy them
Just wanted to have a widebody airliner presentation in Moscow so they could see how that stuff worked to use in what later became Il-86
rustic charm
I mean, tbf Ilyushin never really tried to hide the fact they looked at western airliners when designing the 86
They even at some point had a meeting with Boeing engineers to exchange information
Cause they wanted to know how Boeing made the 747
And Boeing at the same time wanted to know about supersonic technology
trim harbor
twa indeed never flew to bucharest
now time to create the around the world service b4 i start working on STL
rustic charm
And Boeing at the same time wanted to know about supersonic technology
And instead of turning to BAC/Aerospatiale, they turned to USSR. Now try to argue which concept was better.
trim harbor
oof idk if want the entire one
rustic charm
Average 1970s flight
trim harbor
prob just from TLV to HKG(X) instead because TWA operated directs to every one of them with their 74s
rustic charm
Why don't you wanna do the whole thing
trim harbor
do theyj ust all run under one callsign
rustic charm
Usually yes
trim harbor
also it's flight TWA800, i opted to especially not add that one and replaced it with 810 on the JFK-CDG service
guess i'll put it on this one however
rustic charm
If it's sold as one flight, it's gonna have the same callsign
rustic charm
also it's flight TWA800, i opted to especially not add that one and replaced it ...
Don't do 800, yeah
reef isle
took hours but think i've got a good number of TWA routes from JFK down
Is there software that creates that for you?
Looks like vAMSYS?
trim harbor
vamsys indeed but the routes are all 100% handcrafted
i do however have assistance by ai which provides necessary details so i dont take credit
dusty sky
Twa didn't have 747-400's did they?
reef isle
i do however have assistance by ai which provides necessary details so i dont ta...
Oh, what sort of details?
trim harbor
Oh, what sort of details?
rustic charm
I think the 767 was their actual most modern airplane?
reef isle
they're most modern would've been an a318 but that never happend
So It just does the formatting?
trim harbor
there is but it requires there being like pre-formatted schedules
reef isle
Or like text field enter something something
reef isle
Can't you just have the AI reformat it?
I'm assuming it's just a text file at its core
trim harbor
i mayhaps could, i havent looked into at all
it's quite an extensive piece of software with depth to it which i didnt expect
see idk if the ai can do it
dusty sky
Words 👍
reef isle
I wish I could do something like that without the constant fear of AI getting something wrong
reef isle
I used AI for something like this a while back (I had it format for me all the RSBN beacons), that's one for @rustic charm, so that I could import them in LittleNavMap
And I'm always terrified one day, when I'm using them to fly at a busy event and can't afford to make any mistakes, one crucial piece of metadata will be wrong
rustic charm
I've been summoned
dusty sky
Hello
rustic charm
Honestly AI in my eyes is this scary little thing that somehow lives in my computer and I try my best to avoid it at all costs
dusty sky
I only use AI for school bro
I did a french one not having a clue what it said
I had to read it bro it was so scary 😭
trim harbor
i unironically use ai for work
reef isle
I wonder if MSFS represents them at all
Not at all
XPLANE doesn't either
They're part of the TU-154
And the 134 used the same library
rustic charm
Honestly I at some point even considered getting FSX to just fly some Soviet stuff with RSBNs and all that
reef isle
The guy doing the 154 for MSFS says that he's planning on doing them too
reef isle
After all, RSBN is fairly tightly integrated with the INS unit on the 154
rustic charm
Doubt it will release this year though
rustic charm
McDonalds Douglas 11
rustic charm
Although there's a lot of competition
dusty sky
Choose 1 bro
rustic charm
Well I guess the MD-11 indeed
Out of the ones I've been on in reality, the 777 wins though
Actually wait no, I've been on a 747
So the 747-400
reef isle
Favourite plane
Mercure 🙂
trim harbor
it was an -8i however
rustic charm
I've been on a 747 on 4 short hauls
trim harbor
i wasnt lucky enough to be on a -400 thus far
trim harbor
I've been on a 747 on 4 short hauls
for me it was 15 hours
reef isle
Mercure 🙂
Recently has overtaken the 1011, but they're very close. Was pretty much a toss up between the two
rustic charm
In fact I'm pretty sure both times it was a Moscow - Sochi roundtrip
rustic charm
First time was a while ago... it could've been the time my parents took me to Russian Grand Prix in what I think was 2015?
reef isle
1011s cool
It is, but I think the Mercure is the maximum embodiment of fascinating, extremely technically advanced, very cool plane that was an utter and complete commercial failure.
Which has become sort of my thing over the years
dusty sky
I don't get how people are scared of turbulence
trim harbor
not everyone understands the laws of planes
dusty sky
Like I don't even realize there's turbulence
rustic charm
And the second time was also Moscow - Sochi and back, last year, but that was an intentional one-day trip just to sit in a 747
trim harbor
you can feel it quite alot, especially over the atlantic and/or northern regions (in my experience)
rustic charm
Like I don't even realize there's turbulence
That means you've never been in real turbulence
trim harbor
yea
dusty sky
Probably
rustic charm
Turbulence doesn't bother me at all, tbh I even kinda enjoy it
rustic charm
And I've sat through some severe air occasionally
trim harbor
Turbulence doesn't bother me at all, tbh I even kinda enjoy it
menace for enjoying it
fr
rustic charm
Moscow - Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk was on a whole fucking other level
trim harbor
when i flew in feb i was enjoying my beer till we hit turbulence
half of my beer was now in my pants
rustic charm
The plane was all over the place
And it doesn't surprise me in the likes of the 320/737
But...
That was a 77W
rustic charm
We hit several patches going over the very north of Russia, I've never ever seen a 777, or really any widebody at all, fly so rough
Another fun one was in an A320 around 1.5 years ago, between Bangkok and Denpasar (Bali)
Some very rough air there too, it was a rainy time in the region, but an a320 shaking doesn't surprise me as much
rustic charm
We hit several patches going over the very north of Russia, I've never ever seen...
Oh, and I was in the front of the plane in business (got lucky there and ended up on one of AFL's latest 777s too, so the business was proper), can't imagine what it would've been like in the back. Probably a roller coaster... I like roller coasters
rustic charm
-100 or -200
They've made both
I only have the -200F and -200Pax
The -100 is sold as a single pack (includes F, pax and the Super package)
There's also a separate -200 Super which is sold as an expansion that you can use if you own either one of the base -200s
trim harbor
ouch they're seperate purchaes
i only own the 200 freighter
the diff between the -100 and -200 is just range and length in the end is it
rustic charm
Well, out of the major ones, kinda yeah
Plus the airlines/liveries of course
They made a slightly different cockpit for the -100 I'm pretty sure
rustic charm
Adding to where
rustic charm
Fair
dusty sky
What was the fsx conversion that was pretty good with a cockpit mod
rustic charm
There is one?
trim harbor
The 727-100 is $70 jfc
rustic charm
Yeah
rustic charm
At least it includes the whole thing
I think buying all 3 -200 packs ends up about the same
Even more probably
rustic charm
Oh no I've been blocked in my stand
Also I have a feeling DD's static 350 is bit oversized
Look at this beauty though
dusty sky
Or is it
Crazy part is people are saying that the freeware F27 is better than the ini one
rustic charm
rustic charm
Crazy part is people are saying that the freeware F27 is better than the ini one
ini-MS planes are essentially "ini but lower effort cause we're not actually making them for ourselves" planes
rustic charm
Woke up when I was supposed to be at 7000, while being at FL320. I guess the winds were a bit better than expected. Nothing a hold can't fix lol
rustic charm
And we're in Seattle
trim harbor
Woke up when I was supposed to be at 7000, while being at FL320. I guess the win...
MOL
LOL
Did u not have pause t/d
rustic charm
I pretty much never set it
runic hare
I don't get how people are scared of turbulence
I work on plane severe turbulence is fucking terrifying
Atlas box falling on my face is one of my biggest fears
Last year there was a crew at Luton who got a nice fat payout from Ryanair because the Duty Free alcohol box (6 1L glass bottles) broke a stowage and fell on her face during turbulence
Some of our older planes are fucked in more ways than you can think
So stuff like this can happen quite a lot
reef isle
Should I buy the BAe146 for XP12?
It's only 35€
I already have it in flight simulator, but XP12 IMO looks better and runs better, so...
dusty sky
I like the looks of xplane more so yes
reef isle
Well, if it was that easy I would have bought it
isn't it stupid buying a plane you already have twice?
I'd also depend on Flight Sim to fly the Avro RJ
dusty sky
A320 no?
reef isle
what?
I'm talking about the Just Flight BAe146
I also have no fear about missing liveries or anything like that because you can convert liveries from MSFS to Xplane extremely easily
If anyone has any thoughts I'd be interested in what you have to say
dusty sky
I also have no fear about missing liveries or anything like that because you can...
Say what
reef isle
<:Edds:660166687806717983>
Yeah, they use the same model
the textures and UV map are the same
and Xplane's folder structure is very simple
I don't think you even need to flip or rotate them (like you do for the P3D version of the Leonardo maddog)
this was a livery for the XP11 BAe146 that I simply dropped in MSFS
(I got the author's permission to post it)
I've used a few more but didn't bother asking and reposting them
it's in fact much harder to do Xplane -> MSFS because you have to create the folder stucture, the Plane.cfg, layout, etc...
Xplane is just folder with textures, done
dusty sky
Like I mean
reef isle
You realize I'm still talking about the BAe146 (which is a specific aircraft model) and not the simulator right?
dusty sky
It's worse than any other plane cuz it's the same developer and all
reef isle
No, I believe it was developed in parallel for both XP11 and MSFS back in the day, then the XP11 was shelved but apparently the "conversion" to XP12 is good, unlike ini's Airbuses
Which yeah, I tried to fly the Beluga in XP12 and it wasn't great
reef isle
I got the beluga for less than 20
I don't care about any other airbus they made, never looked
But I don't think it was that expensive
but then again Peter Hager wants 40€ to buy another plane I already have...
uuuuf
just a tiny discount for the VFW-614 owners in XP11
so annoying
I guess the 146 is the same in a way, just going from MSFS to Xplane instead of XP11 to 12
I'll have a think
dusty sky
but then again Peter Hager wants 40€ to buy another plane I already have...
Better than buying the jardesign A330 lmao
dusky leaf
The XP 146 is decent but I wouldnt imagine its enough better to justify if you already have the msfs version
XP one is also a bit let down by its FMC choice. Default one or buggy freeware one
fickle oar
Should I buy the BAe146 for XP12?
idk
once they drop a 2024 patch its probably worse
if it already isnt
hollow oracle
i really need to get flying again, but its kind of overwhelming trying to find routes sometimes 
nimble sphinx
I'll either find a random flight on FR24 / flightaware or just load up FlightSimDispatch and find some random historic route
hollow oracle
idk, sometimes i just want to fly, but no particular aircraft or airline or countries/airports, and obviously you cant just search for literally everything on FSD
civic aspen
BAW 202 KBOS - EGLL
golden eagle
I'm actually gonna fly to china tomorrow 😭
So are you actually in China as well? 😂
dusty sky
Uh no
golden eagle
Okay lol that gave the impression lol
trim harbor
trim harbor
rustic charm
The 340 released a day after the trailer
Well clearly the Tristar didn't release a day after the trailer
But ini
Please
Today
Please please
dusty sky
A guy is planning to fly it on a vatsim event
rustic charm
Actually now I think of it, when it does release, it's probably going to be closer to the evening, cause it's a Marketplace release so it's probably based in a US timezone technically
runic hare
I can’t wait to get in, listen to Heathrow delivery to hear a 9 year old American child ask what London DME 2 is
When I was younger I used to get called a squeaker
Need to bring this back
trim harbor
I can’t wait to get in, listen to Heathrow delivery to hear a 9 year old America...
Lmfao
dusty sky
I can’t wait to get in, listen to Heathrow delivery to hear a 9 year old America...
Biggin non-standard?
reef isle
A guy is planning to fly it on a vatsim event
I've done it with the Caravelle
with INS it'll be much easier 😄
if they use GPS then they might a well fly an A320 🤷♂️
dusty sky
What runway is that on?
rustic charm
if they use GPS then they might a well fly an A320 🤷♂️
Agree there XD
rustic charm
15 minutes until the time the A340 released
I have hope
Everyone must buy the Tristar the moment it releases so it sells good and ini considers making a -1
dusty sky
*Everyone must buy the Tristar the moment it releases so it sells good and ini c...
5 minutes now?
rustic charm
About that, yeah
dusty sky
*Everyone must buy the Tristar the moment it releases so it sells good and ini c...
If you give me money sure
rustic charm
I'm gonna go make dinner now, by the time I come back they better release the 1011...
trim harbor
15 minutes until the time the A340 released
We giving up hope with this one 💪
dusty sky
Guys I have a feeling the guy who wants to fly the L1011 in the Hong Kong event isn't gonna get to fly it 😭
dusty sky
(I'm coping)
I can tell
dusty sky
Court is where @rustic charm is taking ini after taking this long
rustic charm
It could actually still be today?
(still coping)
rustic charm
Court is where <@711142647061807114> is taking ini after taking this long
Unfortunately I doubt that reasoning would hold up in any court
dusky leaf
She is a looker
reef isle
She is a looker
She absolutely is ❤️
rustic charm
Very very pretty
reef isle
How very fitting to have the first screenshots from the first European 1011 operator
Court Line my beloved
rustic charm
I'm sure you'll get it
reef isle
That's also a reproduction of the very first flight G-BAAA did from Luton to Palma
rustic charm
Eventually
trim harbor
release it now
rustic charm
Also I need to think of where will I send a 1011 first...
dusty sky
I'm sure you'll get it
In like 7 billion years
rustic charm
NO
trim harbor
prob gonna buy the 721 and 72pax as well
rustic charm
Also well
Who flew 1015s in the US
Cause I probably want the first flight to be short
dusty sky
I hate this economy so much
rustic charm
Delta had them
rustic charm
Honestly I feel like at some point we need to all chip in a bit and get you some nice planes
dusty sky
Fah
trim harbor
Cause I probably want the first flight to be short
:)
rustic charm
Well
dusty sky
Happy plane
trim harbor
meh idrc abt that
rustic charm
I want the first flight to be accurate
trim harbor
oh
rustic charm
Later on I'll probably fly any
Especially if it becomes clear ini doesn't plan to do more (which I hope they do plan)
reef isle
Who flew 1015s in the US
DAL and ATA (I think)
dusty sky
Cause I probably want the first flight to be short
How short
reef isle
I think so
rustic charm
I guess Air Transat and ACA aren't out of reach either
reef isle
EAL and TWA almost definitely didn't
rustic charm
No, I think only long ones
dusty sky
What are we talking about?
reef isle
L-1011-500 operators in the us
rustic charm
Actually
Looks like PAA flew only -500s
And in fact
A few of those later went to UAL
So both PAA and UAL did
hollow oracle
is it actually releasing today?
hollow oracle
dusty sky
That's pretty ain't it
I agree
trim harbor
That's pretty ain't it
Based
rustic charm
Wonder where those would be based
dusty sky
I still have like nothing to fly man
Not even the A340 works anymore
Cuz like the A330 update broke jt
It
trim harbor
I still have like nothing to fly man
levelup 737
dusty sky
Me flying my 7th trillion 737
I have flown nothing but 737's and A330's bro
Give me something old 😭
reef isle
Wonder where those would be based
PAA was a bit all over the place
UAL would have been based on the west coast
rustic charm
Yeah, makes sense
reef isle
They also had a "secondary base" in Japan
Where they operated 1011s towards different destinations in Asia
rustic charm
Oh yeah, many US airlines had bases in Asia
I think PAA, Northwest, UAL all had Narita as a hub?
reef isle
That's basically the story of the UAL 1011s. They inherited most of PAA's west coast routes and fleet and continued to operate them for a while almost exactly like Pan Am, with time they introduced their fleet
And gave their 1011s to DAL
reef isle
Oh yeah, many US airlines had bases in Asia
That was a lot more common in that era
They had bases in Europe too
dusty sky
I much as I'd love to I'm too dumb to fly iit
reef isle
PAA based in Berlin... pretty
Yes 😄
rustic charm
727s and 737s in Tempelhof
dusty sky
Holy spelling mistakes
reef isle
I think you could do a lot worse than doing Palmdale-SFO for UAL as a "delivery"
rustic charm
Apparently even fucking 747s in Tempelhof which I still cannot understand how
Yeah
Also
Why don't we have anything for Palmdale
Not any payware
reef isle
Well, I mean, I know we had that discussion before
reef isle
But if you want to be really precise, you'd be better off delivering one of the 1011s to Pan Am, do a few Pan Am flights and then pretend that it becomes UAL 😆
rustic charm
Well yeah
dusty sky
Does united have A330's
reef isle
I think Pam Am had bases in SFO and maybe LAX too?
rustic charm
Wish I wasn't as useless and could at least make an airport
Cause doing deliveries from default Palmdale will be painful
reef isle
Cause doing deliveries from default Palmdale will be painful
It will be excessively painful
dusty sky
Xplane better
reef isle
The default airport is absolute dogshit
rustic charm
Oh no
dusty sky
I agree
rustic charm
Even worse than usual?
reef isle
Yes 😄
rustic charm
FUCK
dusty sky
Bro it's so bad in msfs that a controller asked me what scenery I was using
reef isle
Bro it's so bad in msfs that a controller asked me what scenery I was using
SLC, ORD or JFK?
dusty sky
Munich
reef isle
Ah that also makes sense
reef isle
Even worse than usual?
It has buildings in the apron area 🤪
rustic charm
Try MSFS default Istanbul
reef isle
Like, in the movement area
Once you're on the taxiway you're fine-ish
But it's just god awful 😆
rustic charm
Nooooooooo
dusty sky
Ok I'm gonna try the A332 in xplane this weekend
rustic charm
Where can I hire someone to make a 10/10 scenery for an airport in one day
dusty sky
If it doesn't work I'm just flying to Innsbruck on a 737
rustic charm
Where can I hire someone to make a 10/10 scenery for an airport in one day
Preferably within a $5 budget
$15 is acceptable
reef isle
Craigslist
dusty sky
Lmao
rustic charm
I guess
trim harbor
Where can I hire someone to make a 10/10 scenery for an airport in one day
Paypal me $30
Fasttrack is $15 soz
rustic charm
You promise it will be ready in time for L-1011 release
dusty sky
rustic charm
trim harbor
Ill make the scenery on roblox and import it
rustic charm
Well that's on me, I didn't specify the date...
dusty sky
Did y'all know the 100 years war was actually 3 separate wars that spanned 116 years
rustic charm
Did you know a thousand-year... empire only lasted 12 years
rustic charm
Tbf that's the only reason to start designing something like that
reef isle
Did you know that Douglas built a 2-Engined prototype of the DC-10, and then did nothing with it because McDonnell being McDonnell.
And the 10-11 was initially conceived as 2 engined plane
rustic charm
Certified McDonalds Douglas moment
reef isle
Certified McDonalds Douglas moment
The Douglas side of the company has a great idea and manages to build a prototype. McDonnell side of the company "you're spending money, that's not allowed"
Go back and strap some more powerful engines to the DC-9 or something
Make the fuselage a little longer too maybe, whatever
That will definitely kill the 737
dusty sky
Did you know that Douglas built a 2-Engined prototype of the DC-10, and then did...
The first one I knew yes
rustic charm
"Sooo... option A: we build a state-of-the-art twinjet which will be competition to all the most modern airliners until the 90s."
"Hmm, what's the option B?"
"We slap new engines onto the regular DC-10, design a new cockpit which admittedly will be the best one on any airliner ever, oh and don't forget to cut off half of the vertical stabiliser so that we can gain 12 miles of range"
"Option B. Now."
reef isle
"Sooo... option A: we build a state-of-the-art twinjet which will be competition...
Option B required less spending
So it was definitely the correct choice
Right?
reef isle
The first one I knew yes
CL-1011
The article is from 2022
So it's not quite safe from it being AI slop, it's right on the edge
But everything about it is believable
rustic charm
Go back and strap some more powerful engines to the DC-9 or something
Make the f...
They knew all along
They just had to stand by and watch
reef isle
Imagine
Everything makes sense
The merger, everything
It was just McD trying to kill the 737 from the inside
rustic charm
rustic charm
It was just McD trying to kill the 737 from the inside
Tbf
reef isle
The 717 and the end of that product line was a small price to pay
rustic charm
MD almost managed to kill all of Boeing from the inside
reef isle
They were planning very long term
dusty sky
Better question is
WHEN DC-8 BRO WE'VE WAITED SINCE THE WILSON ONE FOR A NEW ONE
Felis get on it
rustic charm
Tbh the whole L-1011 story is so weird
I don't usually do one-off flights apart from deliveries/repositionings/etc
But I will absolutely need to send an L-1011 to Moscow
In my opinion that's just crazy
I think it was late 60s
Pretty much the peak of Cold War
reef isle
Tbh the whole L-1011 story is so weird
Yeah, if you count all of the weird corruption that happened with Lockheed in those years it gets really strange
Don't look why ANA bought the 1011
It was also happening with the military jets, specially the Starfighter
Lockheed did some really shadey things
rustic charm
And an American aircraft manufacturer, one with close ties to the USAF, sends one of their planes and some of their staff to Moscow in order to potentially secure Aeroflot as a customer
reef isle
Least suspicious Lockheed "sale tactic" between the 60s and 80s
rustic charm
Actually was '74 from what I can see, not late 60s
But still
Middle of the cold war
dusty sky
I want the 742 man I hate this so much
rustic charm
Yeah that was the big bad period wasn't it
It definitely was
Not as bad as the early 60s (you had the Cuban missile crisis and the Berlin crisis back to back)
But still
reef isle
I mean, at least with the 1011 it wasn't so bad.
You can argue that by forcing the 104 down EU airforce's throats into roles it wasn't realistically very apt at fulfilling they indirectly killed quite a few pilots
not sure if you know about military aviation, don't think we ever talked about it much?
rustic charm
Well I don't know much about military, yeah
reef isle
Aaaaaah sorry
rustic charm
Only really a bit about the stuff that crossed into the military from the airliner world (or well, mostly the other way around)
dusty sky
Pan am had dc-8's right?
rustic charm
Pretty sure they did
rustic charm
I mean, at least with the 1011 it wasn't so bad.
You can argue that by forcing ...
What's up with that though? I thought you were gonna tell me
reef isle
Oh hahaha
Yeah, so basically one of the main reasons why Italy and Germany had so many starfighters is because of Lockheed using """interesting sales tactics""" let's say.
If you want to read more you can see it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals
The F-104 was born as a light and fast high altitude interceptor, that didn't have the greatest handling qualities and was a bit of a handful, it landed at like 180kts, and the only reason why it could go that slow in the first place was because of the blown flaps (so engine dies, you have to land even faster).
Germany ended up purchasing 900 F-104s as their "main plane" and was used for everything, including low flying ground attack close air support missions, and the 104s flying characteristics lead to a lot of pilots impacting terrain or losing control at low altitude. And of course the 104 (being a high altitude interceptor, and having that big t-tail) had a downwards firing ejection seat (at least initially). Survival chances weren't good. There are various documents that say they would have rather chosen the British Buccaneer IIRC, if that whole bribing thing didn't happen. In West Germany the Starfighter got called widow maker for this very reason.
Similar thing happened in Italy, but at least we actually mostly used the plane in its intended role, so it didn't kill quite as many people. And to be fair the scandal was about buying C-130s
Apparently a similar scheme was used to get ANA to buy the L-1011 in Japan.
trim harbor
@rustic charm tomorrow will be the day 
rustic charm
Who tf came up with downward firing ejection seats
trim harbor
I will sleep in good hopes and prayers and fuel my copium
rustic charm
I'm pretty sure we had some planes with those in Russia
And well...
They would occasionally malfunction
And fire on the ground
Now I think you can guess what happens to the pilot when a downward firing ejection seat goes off on the ground
rustic charm
<@711142647061807114> tomorrow will be the day <:prayge:973549483780628480>
Yes, we hope & cope 😭
reef isle
Now I think you can guess what happens to the pilot when a downward firing eject...
Ooooooooof
hollow oracle
god, ever since i got XP12, i just cant look at MSFS the same
the only advantage MSFS has is the fenix A320s
oh, and the better control system
if they would make it so that you can have shift buttons like in every other simulator ever developed, i wouldnt even need MSFS installed anymore
dusky leaf
You can use modifiers in XP. The main advantages of msfs are ease of setup and amount of addons
hollow oracle
you can? i think you can with keyboards, but not controllers
god fucking damnit
im going back to xplane
trim harbor
Yes, we hope & cope 😭
They have dropped so many screenshots
In the ini discord
I wanna die
rustic charm
They have dropped so many screenshots
Yes I'm literally crying
hollow oracle
I’m trying to not get too excited because I’m too broke to even get 2024
trim harbor
I’m trying to not get too excited because I’m too broke to even get 2024
Nows the time
trim harbor
Yes I'm literally crying
Me too 
I seriously hope it comes out on the weekend
Would be kinda dumb if not
trim harbor
Thats why we r so hopeful and full of copium
rustic charm
Exactly
rustic charm
Guess the airport, difficulty: easy
rustic charm
This looks more appropriate
rustic charm
And I'm through
tired pond
the only advantage MSFS has is the fenix A320s
And ortho built in
rustic charm
Tbf, at least in my opinion, Fenix is definitely not the only good plane in MSFS
The F28/146 are also amazing, the 777s and 340s aren't bad
The 1011 when it finally releases
The 300 which I am currently flying
runic hare
XP is lacking in what it has now on offer
rustic charm
I guess for 777s, the XP ones are actually better? At least I've heard the FF one is the best one ever
runic hare
FF, Toliss, Aerobask, AKD
rustic charm
But the others I mentioned are either the same (cause they're made by the same devs) or better in MSFS
runic hare
A lot of freeware as well, Default A333 isn’t bad same with the 332 mod. TU154, Yak40, AN24, B720
rustic charm
Yeah, XP does shine much more with freeware
And also with older planes, including Soviet planes
runic hare
A lot of Soviet planes
rustic charm
MSFS is catching up slightly on the older market, but still the only 2 Soviet planes we have are the An-225 and the An-2
runic hare
The Russian devs moved from FSX to XP11 then have stuck with XP12 as opposed to moving to MSFS
rustic charm
Yeah
runic hare
You can fly XP12 out the box with some amazing freeware plugins, scenery and aircraft
Can’t say the same about MSFS
Unless you just want to fly a glider
rustic charm
And those Russian (or well, I'd say post-Soviet, cause it's not only Russians) devs that did move to MSFS just do western airliners
reef isle
A lot of freeware as well, Default A333 isn’t bad same with the 332 mod. TU154, ...
It's split.
You need both really
I'd argue you need all 3
11, 12 and FS
rustic charm
And those Russian (or well, I'd say post-Soviet, cause it's not only Russians) d...
With the only exception being Ablomis, and the guy who was doing the 134 but obviously that is no more...
reef isle
Recently a lot of the X11 stuff is getting ported over
727 won't
That's a big deal
I don't want to fly the FSS
reef isle
That really pissed me off same with the 732
At least that will get ported at some point
Unlike the 72
runic hare
Nimbus said they might work on a 727 after they finish the 707
rustic charm
Can’t say the same about MSFS
Yeah, MSFS is bad in that regard. You do kinda have the 310 and 330 being included by default, they're not awful, but then there's a question of sceneries. And there aren't many good freeware ones
runic hare
And the 707 looks really good
rustic charm
I don't want to fly the FSS
Tbf the FSS isn't bad, my main problem with it is the limiting cockpit configurations
But at the same time
runic hare
The Felis 742 as well how could I forget
reef isle
I think Xplane is just flat out better than MSFS as a simulator, and by a huge margin, like, it's not even close
Even XP11 compared to FS24
reef isle
It's a shame that a lot of planes require flight simulator
runic hare
It’s the same argument from when 2020 came out, is MSFS a simulator or a game
rustic charm
I mean, it's pretty much universally agreed upon that XP does have better simulation
reef isle
But pretty
Is it though? The terrain is often melted or grainy, the airports are bad (unless you buy scenery), the sky is alright
Xplane 12's sky is by far the best I've seen in any game ever
runic hare
Accessibility as well
rustic charm
And with MSFS it quite heavily depends on the plane you fly. Lower-end planes will probably feel like paper planes
Even with higher-end ones, XP will usually be better
reef isle
As I have set it up now, I think my Xplane 12 (with the XP11 terrain mind you) looks better than MSFS
runic hare
Everyone knows Microsoft and FSX and MSFS whereas Laminar Research and XP8?
rustic charm
Even with higher-end ones, XP will usually be better
But with stuff like the Fenix, etc the margin is just less than with default planes etc
runic hare
But with stuff like the Fenix, etc the margin is just less than with default pla...
The Fenix started out as an attempt to be toliss but ended up like 50x better
Don’t get me wrong
Love the toliss
But it’s not exactly the most detailed aircraft
rustic charm
I mean, obviously I have no experience with ToLiss in XP, but I do have a bit with ToLiss in MSFS now
And I agree that the Fenix is better
Much better
rustic charm
I think it's the systems and flight model?
Which is
Kinda the most important bits
reef isle
Xplane makes developing a "baseline" GOOD feeling plane with a decent autopilot very easy.
I'm an absolute bozo, and I managed to give the free MiG-23 a flight model that very closely aligns with the manual.
To do that in MSFS you have to be a wizard and spend so much time doing trial and error.
rustic charm
And the bits that get judged lol
rustic charm
Xplane makes developing a "baseline" **GOOD** feeling plane with a decent autop...
Don't get me started with MSFS modding
reef isle
The free Metroliner in Xplane isn't any worse than many of the MSFS "basic" planes like the YS-11
rustic charm
Making anything for MSFS is a huge pain
runic hare
I mean the toliss flight model is insane in XP I can’t attest to the 346 in msfs
rustic charm
Fair
Obviously I can't compare it to the real thing
Or even the XP stuff cause I don't have XP
But it felt good
runic hare
Also realised this ages ago but we now have wake turbulence in XP
I don’t know how but it exists
But again this comes back to what you want
Something plug and play where you have a bunch of planes you bought of a marketplace in the game or something that takes a few hours to set up but is great once you have it
rustic charm
Tbf I reckon when I end up fully switching to FS24 and deleting FS20 (or at least uninstalling the majority of it) and as such freeing up a bit more space, I'll probably get XP too
Cause with some aircraft I'm just certain we won't ever get them in a good rendition in MSFS
runic hare
I can’t imagine some wannabe pilots from Nebraska are gonna want to use Xorganiser before every flight
That’s the point
“Ooooh I can go to my house”
That’s the gimmick with MSFS
And that’s also why it’s so popular
reef isle
But again this comes back to what you want
I genuinely disagree that FS24 looks better though.
It looks better in theory, but in practice because FS feels like a big bowl of spaghetti AI generated junk, that somehow works (but nobody knows how), it often ends up being worse.
Whether it is because it needs 1TB of VRAM so it "throttles itself" to not crash, or the servers aren't very good and the terrain gets wonky.
rustic charm
Yeah, its popularity can be largely explained by it being able to act as an arcade
runic hare
XP is much less welcoming for someone coming in from no experience
rustic charm
For MSFS you don't need to own any hardware etc
If you just want to occasionally load up and fly a cessna
runic hare
Exactly
rustic charm
Hell, I managed to get almost 1000 hours before I got my first set of hardware
reef isle
I still think Xplane still wins to be completely honest.
Loads much more quickly, UI is more intuitive and gets less in your way, you just pick plane, pick airport. Fly.
Done
runic hare
It got popular from that gimmick then people said “ooh I wanna fly a 777” kept at it and are now die hard flight simmers without any experience in any other sims
rustic charm
I genuinely disagree that FS24 looks better though.
It looks better _in theory_...
Oh honestly, I don't think FS24 looks better than FS20 even
Like
For me
It's roughly the same
runic hare
So when people say “XP scenery looks like shit” they don’t consider AO or XPME as an option because they started out the box with nothing
rustic charm
And in certain cases worse
FS24 only will look better if you steal pretty much every computer from NASA and load it up on those
reef isle
So when people say “XP scenery looks like shit” they don’t consider AO or XPME a...
I still don't see how default Xplane scenery is worse than default Flight Sim anyway to be honest
runic hare
Yeah but these are Americans who’s only flight sim experience is with gigabit internet and a 3090
reef isle
Yeah but these are Americans who’s only flight sim experience is with gigabit in...
I guess...
rustic charm
Tbf, I had XP (I think 12?) for a brief moment a couple years ago, just before I bought MSFS, and I'd say the scenery didn't look worse than MSFS
reef isle
It absolutely doesn't
reef isle
But that’s the way they see it
Yeah that's what's crazy to me.
When I see Xplane12's sky, it feels almost 1:1 to real life, how can someone else think MSFS' sky looks better?
Do we not live in the same reality?
rustic charm
I'm sure if I load up FSX in cruise, the scenery will look the same. The sky just won't look as nice
runic hare
Now a lot more people are playing flight sims and more devs are coming into XP as opposed to MSFS
reef isle
I'm sure if I load up FSX in cruise, the *scenery* will look the same. The sky j...
The sky in FSX is not worse than FS24 to be completely honest
The only thing you'll miss are 3d volumetric clouds
reef isle
But the colours and overall look isn't worse. And in fact. I think it's better than 2020, about on par with 2024
rustic charm
The sky itself I'm sure is the same
runic hare
Mango Studios AT76, Nimbus 707, FF777, FF787, FF/Toliss A350, Toliss A332/3 plus all the old crap like the bulk of Soviet aircraft getting converted for free plus some not free cool stuff like the pilotsanya T204
People are realising that XP is actually significantly better
runic hare
I mean just look on volanta tho half the screenshots from MSFS have the hud
rustic charm
Exactly
rustic charm
Damn that looks good
rustic charm
I have a feeling he would accept a payment from a Russian card too XD
runic hare
Yeah lol