Flight Sims (MSFS, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, FS98...)

[rustic charm]

Welp

I looked online

And one airline still sells tickets on flights from Dubai...

Only problem is, that's Ariana. And I don't have a visa to Afghanistan

Plus I'd have to fly with at least 2 stops cause they don't fly to Moscow

That would be much more expensive

[trim harbor]

SYD-JFK, 18.30 hours

easy 20 tons over

[trim harbor]

still 16 hours

ini modelled the crew rest area

cool detail

its so detailed wth

i own it day 1 but i still never looked at this

wasmd

im p sure its got something to do w the autosave

[reef isle]

It's so beautiful

I love it

[trim harbor]

fucking autosave didnt save the damn fuel

headache of a plane

[reef isle]

Load EFOB for the waypoint?

[dusty sky]

Where is it?

Looks like the cargo hold

[trim harbor]

below the cockpit

[dusty sky]

I hate only having the A330 and A340 as single floor wide-bodies

So much stuff I'm missing on

[rustic charm]

I agree

You're missing out on a lot of cool planes

[dusty sky]

A lot of cool routes as well

[rustic charm]

Yep

A lot of cool MD-11s too

[dusty sky]

No ANA livery 😭

[rustic charm]

Welp, gonna be at MTOW for the next leg

Onwards to Kai Tak

[rustic charm]

Flex 11... I think that's the lowest flex temp I've ever done a takeoff with

[trim harbor]

I thought i was low with my 30

You take the crown king

[rustic charm]

It would've been 9 if I was going packs on

[rustic charm]

And into Kai Tak

[dusty sky]

I still need to fly to china

[rustic charm]

The MD-11 really seems to insist on autolanding Kai Tak

[dusty sky]

Yeah no buddy

[rustic charm]

I'm tempted to at some point just do a quick lap around Kai Tak to just test out what it wants to do

[dusky leaf]

I like three holers but to me the MD11 is ugly af

[dusty sky]

How dare you

I'm calling @rustic charm to give you a lesson

[rustic charm]

I agree with "How dare you"

But hey, everyone has opinions

I have some controversial/unpopular ones too

[dusty sky]

I wanna hear some

[rustic charm]

Uhh, if staying aviation-themed...

First, the strongest one, ain't nobody changing my mind:

• Megahubs are horrible, awful, unbearable, and any other words you can use to say "terrible"

Obviously my most hated one is Istanbul, it has literally no redeeming qualities

But the likes of Chek Lap Kok, Incheon, O'Hare, Baiyun, etc. are not good either

[dusty sky]

O'Hare is bad ngl

Yes I love having 6 intersecting runways

[rustic charm]

Then, up next - the 787 isn't pretty, the new Boeing cockpit is awful, and I'll take a classic 777 any day

[dusty sky]

Fair

[rustic charm]

Not moving too far off that - the A350 is overrated, it definitely looks better than the 787 but still not as good as people claim it to be. The cockpit is not nearly as bad thanks to Airbus actually keeping it in a good colour, but if I were a pilot I would take a 'classic' Airbus cockpit (A320/330/340) any day as well

[dusty sky]

I mean, ok

[rustic charm]

Then further - the push for XLR narrowbodies is stupid. If you have a 4000-mile route on which you don't have enough demand to fill an A330-200, you don't need to serve that route. A lot of these routes are oceanic routes too, and oceanic turbulence can be quite damn something. Widebodies on such routes are much more comfortable. And if you configure a narrowbody into entirely business-first, well thanks but at that point you might as well switch from being an airline to being a private jet rental company

Moving off that, since the idea is to provide more destinations you can reach without layovers... layovers don't make a trip complicated or tough, if you plan well they don't add any difficulty. All you have to do is walk 2km extra (which admittedly for some people may be a problem, but airport services should be able to help, at least in normal airports)

Then next up, ultra low cost airlines are actually good. Yes they make you pay for every extra gram of luggage you bring onboard, and you'll have to pay a fortune to even get a bottle of water during the flight, but they allow you to travel on a rather wide network for ridiculously cheap. Trust me, I would be very happy if I had an airline here that could take me to Sri Lanka, or Riyadh, or Sharm El Sheikh for $40

[dusty sky]

Wizz is peak

Best thing to come out of Hungary

[trim harbor]

Its fine irl

Fastest connection i ever had

[reef isle]

I think I have the ultimate unpopular opinion

The A350 is ugly

Out of all the new planes with the Comet-style nose it's by far the worst looking

The 787 looks much better, and the A220 is another league entirely

[reef isle]

This has a charm

The A350 not even that

[reef isle]

I don't disagree but I think there's some nuance

The only reason why ULCC can offer such incredibly competitive pricing is because they are subsidized in various ways.

I think while at the same time it's important and beneficial to society having travel to be as cheap and as hassle-free as possible (thanks Brexit), I would either like similar subsidies to be brought to rail OR dropped for airlines.

I think a rail journey shouldn't always be more expensive almost by default

[reef isle]

Egg

[rustic charm]

This reminded me of an old meme but I'll get banned if I post it

[dusty sky]

Ig the goblin is ugly

I just find it cute honestly

[rustic charm]

Oh, seeing air force btw reminded me of another unpopular opinion I have

Just let the poor planes die, re-engined 707s look laughable

[rustic charm]

Slapping high bypass fans onto the golden era jets is a sin

[dusty sky]

Dc-8?

[rustic charm]

Both the 707 and the DC-8

Although

The DC-8 didn't look as bad imo

[reef isle]

It's the worst one of the bunch

[dusty sky]

It doesn't work on the 707

[reef isle]

The Engines are as big as the fuselage

I hate it

[rustic charm]

Maybe because they actually got to wear the CFMs in commercial service so I probably just am a bit more used to it

Shit like this still looks very wrong, even if I would love to have that in MSFS

[reef isle]

Reason n.372947 why the Convair 880 and 990 were the best early jets - they didn't survive long enough to be ever fitted with different engines

[rustic charm]

Oh Convairs looked lovely

[dusty sky]

What's this hate for the reengined dc-8's 😭

[rustic charm]

It just looks wrong

[reef isle]

I think they mess with your mind, from the shape and everything they look fairly big/mid size, but they're tiny

[dusty sky]

If I ever get a dc-8 I'm flying the rengined ones specifically to piss FD off

[rustic charm]

Honestly the only airplane that got fitted with bigger engines than originally and still looked good was the A340. The -600 still looks great, even if not as great as the -300

[dusty sky]

The -500 is peak

[rustic charm]

Tbf if I ever get a DC-8 in MSFS I'm flying re-engined ones because this

UPS didn't have any with original engines I think

And UPS DC-8s were a constant in Kai Tak

Also, nobody's even thought of making a DC-8 in MSFS yet, right?

[dusty sky]

Fine air anyone?

They were in fact, not very fine

[reef isle]

Obviously not

Anything that happened after 2020 doesn't exist

The collective flight simmer memory stops there

[rustic charm]

Yeah

Ngl, I wish someone made one

But also

None fly irl anymore

[dusty sky]

What about those 2 in the congo that you never know where they are

[rustic charm]

So the chances for one are about the same as the chances for an Il-86

[rustic charm]

Well that's the thing, we don't know if they actually fly even

They could as easily be rusting in a field somewhere, and we wouldn't know

Ngl, if I understood modelling at all, I'd try to make something. Probably wouldn't start with a DC-8 (I think an An-24 would be a great starter though, plus a useful plane), but eventually would try

Honestly, I'd say our only hope for something like a DC-8 in MSFS is JustFlight

[dusty sky]

Let's do it together

It's gonna take 7 years but that's ok

At least xplane has its own aircraft creator

[rustic charm]

I could work on scripting I reckon, but a model is off the table

I tried many times

[reef isle]

Same

I've done a bit of flight model work and SIMPLE system work

But I have no idea how to do 3d models

[rustic charm]

Honestly I reckon the toughest part of scripting a plane is understanding how it actually works in reality

[reef isle]

I've always wanted to do a Yak-141

I think I can ask a few friends of mine to rip the War Thunder model

Obviously I'd make it for myself

[rustic charm]

Cause well, airliners irl are not simple. To be honest I'm sure even light aircraft are more complicated than people generally think

[reef isle]

If you want to do something simple, both in MSFS and Xplane is not that hard

Because you have templates for pretty much anything

[rustic charm]

Well yeah

I mean, you could just use a template, or you could code something yourself but in a very simple way

[civic aspen]

Just picked up MSFS 2024, looking forward to the new visuals

And the A330 as @rustic charm mentioned to me

[rustic charm]

But with airliners, you really gotta understand how they work

Newer ones even more so

If you want to make a good quality one that is

[rustic charm]

Yeah, it's not too bad

Unfortunately not that many liveries for it because it lacks a paintkit, but the popular ones should be covered

[civic aspen]

Going to take the 78X from Boeing Field I think

[rustic charm]

I think Dreamliners are built at Paine

[civic aspen]

Oh well

XD

[civic aspen]

I guesss it's in LBS then :/

[civic aspen]

Asobo 737 Max 🥀

[reef isle]

Don't use that

[civic aspen]

It's so poor

Could have been something great too

[trim harbor]

Yes

I find the 787 to be ugl

[trim harbor]

The A321LR/XLR is also decent

[civic aspen]

I don't really fly Airbus, but I'll sure check it out

[trim harbor]

unpause and its day

lmao

manhattan

[dusty sky]

Anyone have data on the 707-120?

Mostly fuel quantity

[civic aspen]

I just realised that I won’t have this livery anymore now I’ve upgraded to MSFS 2024

[trim harbor]

return flight 19.30 hours

l o l

[dusty sky]

Or you keep both 2020 and 2024?

[civic aspen]

I don't have the space

[trim harbor]

prob highest i have been in a commerical plane lo

[dusty sky]

No Concorde I see

[civic aspen]

😍

[rustic charm]

I think I once climbed to 440 in a 737 while doing a delivery

[rustic charm]

Before you ask, the service ceiling of a 737 is 410

[trim harbor]

i skipped out on reserve fuel

useless load anyway

simbrief overplans fuel all the time

[rustic charm]

Huh

I most of the time end up using more than planned lol

[trim harbor]

this is without any reserve fuel

[rustic charm]

Well tbf I end up usually spending more than the plane itself expects

[trim harbor]

do u cruise at m .9

[rustic charm]

Though 16 tons extra for you there, should definitely be enough

[trim harbor]

im gonna land like a 737

i have 40 pax

and like a ton of cargo max

[rustic charm]

Usually not, rarely yes

That's like, an F28 load at most, not even a 737

[trim harbor]

im at the literal mtow

[rustic charm]

Fun

[hollow oracle]

that lakehopper game is in an open playtest

[hollow oracle]

its really fun, though it is a playtest and early access, so its pretty loaded with bugs

[reef isle]

https://flightsim.to/addon/101791/ptp-installer-for-pmdg-737-800-msfs-2024-only

For any other livery you'd like to be upgraded to FS24 you can ask me 🙂

[civic aspen]

Oh thank you!

Also

[trim harbor]

short flight i say

guess ill spare the extra fuel again

perfect it works this way

passengers dont have to know

[rustic charm]

Thinking like "If I load reserve fuel, that means I plan for something to go wrong. I don't plan for anything to go wrong"?

[rustic charm]

Well

I was today years old when I found out widebodies used to go to LaGuardia

Pan Am ran A300s and A310s there

Delta had L-1011s go there too

American on DC-10s

Eastern on both A300s and L-1011s

[trim harbor]

lool

[dusty sky]

holy big ass nose wheel door

[trim harbor]

1 minute late, 19:25 hours flight time

suprised all went well

[rustic charm]

Internal screaming

Gonna need to fly this thing to Istanbul too... and then back to CDG.........

I guess it's worth it

[dusty sky]

Holy contrails

[rustic charm]

The plane decided we're not landing

Attempt 2

[rustic charm]

😭

[civic aspen]

@reef isle Thank you so much for linking that tool for converting liveries. It's made me very happy I can fly Boeing House again :))

❤️

[reef isle]

Hehe no worries

If there are some non-PMDG liveries you'd like to be converted you can just ping me

[civic aspen]

If I find some sure 🙂

[civic aspen]

The boris sound pack for the 737 is just insane

[trim harbor]

trying out sayintentions rn

impressed with the website and app

[trim harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK2AM5Zg0pY

[trim harbor]

based

[civic aspen]

Time to go back to Dallas

[rustic charm]

Time to take a widebody to Tivat

[trim harbor]

funky s7 livery

[rustic charm]

The proper one

The original

[trim harbor]

i only know s7 with their all green one

[rustic charm]

Well that is their best-known one

I think it appeared some time in the 2000s?

Before that S7 had a "temporary solution"

Their initial fleet was pretty much entirely ex-Aeroflot Soviet

Instead of fully repainting those planes, they kept the Aeroflot livery (which in itself is 2 bloo stripes) and repainted the tail to show their name (cause at that point it was still Airline "Siberia", not S7)

Then when A310s started rolling in, those came from a variety of sources so all had different stripes on them. Some were from Aeroflot, some from Hapag Lloyd, etc

So they just repainted them into full white fuselage, keeping that same tail

Then they rebranded into S7, but obviously you can't instantly repaint all of your planes, so they just slapped bright red logos on the fuselage and called it a day until they eventually applied the new livery to their whole fleet

Actually that's wrong even, they didn't repaint the tails initially, just painted a new name over where "Aeroflot" used to be written

The blue tails came with the temporary all-white livery

Initially you had this

Which I hope we will eventually have in MSFS

Then this

Then eventually this

Although sometimes you had this, which is literally the airline language for "We don't know what to draw"

Then you also had these, ex-Vnukovo Airlines ones

[trim harbor]

they dont get paid enough to care

[dusty sky]

since when were the tow trucks mounted with ajustable hight suspention

[fickle oar]

a340 from wish

[rustic charm]

Well tbf

That plane was made something like 20 years before the A340

So it's not like the Concordski

[fickle oar]

true

but damn those engines are small for such a big plane

[rustic charm]

Oh yeah

It's the only widebody airliner to ever be powered by low bypass turbines I'm pretty sure

[fickle oar]

acc insane

considering soviet runways too

paid for whole runway, will use whole runway

[rustic charm]

In Soviet Russia, you not need runway to land a plane, just need vodka

[fickle oar]

i mean

[fickle oar]

unironically true from what i heard

[rustic charm]

Although the places where where they flew the 86s...

86s were a common sight in Tivat

Which is just totally crazy in my opinion

That's an airport which now doesn't see anything more than A321s

[fickle oar]

short runway u could say

[rustic charm]

Although well, looking at charts, 2.5km

So it's not the worst

[reef isle]

The IL-86 is also not that big

[rustic charm]

It's between the size of the A300 and A310, yeah

It's not like 777-big

[reef isle]

Yeah

[rustic charm]

Still, quite crazy that it had low bypass turbines

[reef isle]

I think the fact that it's a wide body and the 4 engines make it look more massive than it actually is if that makes sense

[rustic charm]

I want one in MSFS sooooo much

[reef isle]

Yeah quite

Not even the FSX one is good 🙁

[fickle oar]

but heavy + poop engines

[fickle oar]

actually mad theres none of that for the sim yet

like anything russian/soviet

civil anyways

[rustic charm]

To any devs listening: if you make an il-86, you can later quite easily convert it into an il-96 and sell that as well, plus maybe even in several packs considering you have the -300s in various variants and -400s now. Much money. Do it, be rich

[fickle oar]

i believe there was a tu-134 in the works

[rustic charm]

Exactly. Only the An-225, which, as cool as it is, is a one-off and has very limited use

[reef isle]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh not sure about that

[fickle oar]

but the developer passed away from cancer or something sadly

[rustic charm]

At least we're getting an SSJ and a Tu-154

[rustic charm]

I think the Tu-134 is gone

[reef isle]

Wouldn't it be the same as doing an A300B Vs A300-600 kinda thing?

[civic aspen]

Chat did I cook

[rustic charm]

Yes but no

Yes in terms of swapping out the gauges for screens, that needs doing

[fickle oar]

float, 0/10

jk

nice

[rustic charm]

Plus the Il-96 is longer and has actual high-bypass engines

But no in terms of flight engineer and automation, cause the 96 retained the FE role and wasn't too much more automated afaik

So it's a fair bit of work of course, but nothing impossible

[fickle oar]

cockpit anyways looked pretty alright too. poor guy

[rustic charm]

Oh yeah, damn, that looks nice

[reef isle]

That very much looks like the same FSX/Xplane model

[rustic charm]

Better than I expected it to

[fickle oar]

yet has more depth than pmdg 737 "v2" cockpit

[civic aspen]

Yeah I over cooked it alot

[rustic charm]

Ngl, haven't used the HUD even once myself

It looks a bit weird imo

[civic aspen]

It's amazing to use

[dusty sky]

is that the 154?

[fickle oar]

134

[rustic charm]

I much prefer just eyeballing it tbh, at least I understand what to look at

[dusty sky]

that was my second option

[rustic charm]

I wonder how far into development that 134 was

Cause it's a real shame what happened

[fickle oar]

apparently flyable

but exterior didnt get finished

[rustic charm]

Well flyable still can describe lots of states

[fickle oar]

i think the most essential stuff worked

[rustic charm]

I think in MSFS basically as soon as you import the model as an aircraft into the sim it's "flyable"

[rustic charm]

Oh well...

[fickle oar]

but probably not more than that so none of the old school nav tools or more complicated stuff

[rustic charm]

Fair

Shame really

Such a cool little plane

[trim harbor]

Theres a 154 coming soon

[rustic charm]

I guess the only chance we get more Soviet stuff is if the Tu-154 ends up selling really well, then maybe devs will realise that making those planes is a good commercial decision

[rustic charm]

I'd put it more as soon™

Cause we don't know if its even on the cards for 2027

[trim harbor]

yea i see now

no updates since sept 25

unfortunate

[rustic charm]

At least I'm kinda sure it's not dead since he's working with some big dev now

[trim harbor]

ooss

[rustic charm]

The only eastern plane we might see this year I'd say is the SSJ

Well

Technically the SSJ is already here

[trim harbor]

oh yeah shit

[rustic charm]

But it's currently an A320 in an SSJ trenchcoat

[trim harbor]

i totally forgot about it

what is ops center sending me 😭

[rustic charm]

What

Why did it send you that lol

[trim harbor]

its sayintentions dispatcher im pretty sure

[rustic charm]

Ah

Could be

The 340 has the integration

[trim harbor]

yah i connected to cpdlc

p nice that it works

[fickle oar]

ah yes, md 11 certi

[rustic charm]

So slow

Probably lightly loaded

[fickle oar]

myeah, was a short pax from zurich to eham

[rustic charm]

Fair

[fickle oar]

otherwise it would been a 170 knots dive bomb

[rustic charm]

Btw, about the SSJ, we've not had any news since the trailer dropped have we?

That trailer did look amazing

[fickle oar]

dont think so, i havent seen anything anyways

[rustic charm]

Fair

Tbf, kinda excited for it

Got 2 flights on one in the summer between Moscow and St. Petersburg

Got bumped to business on the first one too

It's a neat plane tbh

[rustic charm]

And done

Now I sleep

Only 6:30 left until the Aus GP

[trim harbor]

Cant wait

[rustic charm]

Apparently I mixed up the timings and woke up an hour too early

I have Moscow time set on my laptop, local time on my phone, and the difference is one hour. And somehow 7am that I saw on my laptop stuck with me more than the actual 8am start

[trim harbor]

not that good of a race though sadly

[rustic charm]

Eh, not too bad

[trim harbor]

new regs stink

[rustic charm]

Seeing Astons retire, then un-retire was hilarious lol

[trim harbor]

amr is a lost cause

[rustic charm]

Oh definitely, yeah

As a Fernando fan, I just wait for funny radios, that's it

Mclaren-Honda years are back

[trim harbor]

redbull dominance is over

real vfr conditions

[rustic charm]

Well tbf last year already wasn't red bull dominance

Mclaren had a much much better car and were absolutely dominant whenever they weren't dumb

[trim harbor]

interesting vector

woe transatlantic flights r short

winds must b good

[dusty sky]

if you're flying east yeah

[trim harbor]

i dont think this is minimum distance

[dusty sky]

it's meant to be 5nm my guy

[trim harbor]

wrong, its not

on nat tracks it's 15-25nm depending on following aircraft speed

[dusty sky]

bleh

[rustic charm]

Yeah, in cruise overall spacing is preferably more

You rarely have planes cruising within 5nm, only on uktra-busy corridors

[trim harbor]

NAT especially since it's not monitored

[dusty sky]

it's not?

bah

I almost smacked into another plane on vatsim once

[reef isle]

Yeah there's no radar coverage

[trim harbor]

no, thats why u need oceanic cleareance

so they know whos coming when

[dusty sky]

ah

[trim harbor]

they can either deny it or reroute you to another nat track

if spacings an issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aQ2E0mlRQI

here

[rustic charm]

I mean, how would it possibly be monitored

Like, I'm sure technically we do have radars that reach far enough to cover the atlantic, but in order for monitoring to not be useless you need the zones to be smaller, so that you at least are able to understand which plane is doing what

You could cover the atlantic with one radar in Ireland, one radar in Canada, one in Iceland, but all you would end up receiving is a bunch of dots on the screen with no ability to understand how far apart they are, etc, so there will just be no benefit

[trim harbor]

another last min runway change

[trim harbor]

paris

[runic hare]

first time in a while flying the xcrafts ejets

very nice I have to say

[trim harbor]

a whopping 10 pages

[runic hare]

Work is going to be fun

It’s not even midday 😭😭😭

[trim harbor]

whats ur schedule like today

[runic hare]

It was supposed to be STN-PRG-STN-SZY-STN

Due to weather they removed Olsztyn

[trim harbor]

whats szy

[runic hare]

That’s good news because I don’t know how to say it

[trim harbor]

nvm

[runic hare]

Szymany airport

Serving Olsztyn Mazury

The one with the CIA black site somewhere around the airport

[trim harbor]

wait what LOL

[runic hare]

Yeah

Nice bit of trivia lol

[trim harbor]

@reef isle @rustic charm we were wrong. oceanic cleareance is partially gone now

[rustic charm]

Wait, they got partial radar?

[trim harbor]

seperation rules remain, FL rules are not enforced anymore and more a recommendation

gander doesnt issue cleareances anymore, shanwick will until summer 2026

[rustic charm]

Wow, interesting

[rustic charm]

Also, Gander mentioned 😭

[rustic charm]

That's interesting

So no more oceanic altitudes on NATs

[trim harbor]

apparently

so this is in partially enforced

flights (like iceland) who'll join nat tracks are exempt and can do any FL

man

[rustic charm]

Ngl

I'm not very sure if I like these changes

I think NATs were very well-optimised, meanwhile the partial removal of restrictions will probably end up in a lot of TCAS

[reef isle]

I mean it makes sense

Now with ADSB and satellite coverage you can get a good enough idea of where planes are even without an actual radar

[trim harbor]

heres a tldr

[hollow oracle]

oh fuck, the aeroplane heaven B-25 is out

i didnt even realize

im not a massive fan of the B-25, but it is a fun flier, all of the old WW2 bombers are

it wasnt much of a bomber as it was a heavy fighter aircraft that happened to be good at dropping bombs too, some were outfitted to be strafing aircraft

[trim harbor]

w ups livery

[dusty sky]

Does that mean I don't have to spend like 15 minutes making a clearance on vatsim soon

[dusty sky]

Is that real

[rustic charm]

Yes

[dusty sky]

🤯

[trim harbor]

you'll still need to request it

but they wont respond to it

BUT

its vatsim

[rustic charm]

Gander was an oceanic clearance point because back in the day, when flights couldn't make it direct to other places, it was the point where stopovers happened

[trim harbor]

i doubt they'll do it like irl

[rustic charm]

Aeroflot had Il-62s and Il-86s stopping there 😭

[trim harbor]

watching u aersoft dev

better release it today

[dusty sky]

Holy shit

[trim harbor]

he sucks at flying it tho

[dusty sky]

Same as me

My average is like -550

[trim harbor]

do u have a joystick

i keep forgetting

[rustic charm]

My all time average is 294

[trim harbor]

mines -245

[dusty sky]

Yes I do

[trim harbor]

anything between 200-300 is average

[dusty sky]

Probably too sensitive honestly

Me when visual at DFW flying level for like 4 miles then descending

[trim harbor]

dfw is a terrible airport

just like ord

to taxi in

[rustic charm]

All megahubs are terrible

This one was quite rough, but felt within safe limits. Got some awful rough air very low

[trim harbor]

sorry to my passengers

[trim harbor]

crazy sequencing

[dusty sky]

Cuz of some vatsim client bs I found myself facing the wrong direction on a taxiway in an Atlas air

[trim harbor]

horizon sim 78?

[civic aspen]

Yes 🙂

[trim harbor]

how is it

or well

[civic aspen]

Very good

[trim harbor]

is it flyable

[civic aspen]

Yes

It's not like study level like the 777 but it's still very good

Semi Advanced

[trim harbor]

as long as it can fly a-b with vnav AND MAYBE holds

it's fine

it's free after all

[civic aspen]

I just realised it does CDPLC or whatever it is

[trim harbor]

based based based

does it work is the question

[trim harbor]

go on logon

can u fill anything in

[trim harbor]

holy shit it might actually work

[civic aspen]

Might be worth expermenting with it

[trim harbor]

if it works that'd be a godsend

[civic aspen]

They plan to add alot more

[trim harbor]

now if cpdlc works

im sold on it

think it doesnt have a pause at t/d

which kinda scared me off from using it

[rustic charm]

Pause is for the weak, real men sleep through TD and only wake up from hearing the master warning go off once the plane runs out of fuel 500 miles past the destination

[dusty sky]

Y'all can pause at t/d?

[trim harbor]

Doesnt work with si it seems

[dusty sky]

si?

Si senior?

[trim harbor]

sayintentions

[dusty sky]

Uh

To eat all your food

Nah jk

[civic aspen]

That's fine, I use VATSIM instead XD

[trim harbor]

i dont like vatsim as much anymore

it turned shite

atleast compared to how it was in 2017-2018

[rustic charm]

Didn't everything turn shite compared to how it was in 2017-2018

[dusty sky]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-point-debate-argument-angel-gif-17274775

[trim harbor]

nah the voice quality became better

idk if u know how vatsim used to sound

but it was genuinely awful

and 8/10 times i did not understand the controller

[rustic charm]

Fair

[dusty sky]

Had a guy at Athens he said push and start approved face west

And the guy was facing west

It's north-south

[trim harbor]

the livery fits the a350 too well

[dusty sky]

GOD DAMN

[trim harbor]

@rustic charm

https://youtu.be/silUp9EXabM?t=1658

watch from the timestamp

just a few sec

[rustic charm]

Oh yeah that's barely audible

[trim harbor]

could be my best friend speaking and i would not know who it is

[dusty sky]

Sounds like a stereotypical robot lmao

[trim harbor]

yea

thank god its not like that anymore

[dusty sky]

There are some that are just really quiet honestly

[tired pond]

RIP King

[trim harbor]

one road

no light pollution either

[reef isle]

PoV: controllers ask you to do an RNAV procedure even though you file as /I

so you try your best with what you have

the second bit was pure malicious compliance

I just followed the non-RNAV one that was very similar

it's not like they care if I'm a bit off 🤷

I'm sure Euroscope freaked out at them (as it does the second you're 0.00001ft off your assigned altitude or 0.00000001NM away from the assigned route), but that's good

maybe next time they'll give me proper procedures

[trim harbor]

Aerosoft A340 on Thursday

[rustic charm]

Just wanted to say

[rustic charm]

I'd just be "Unable RNAV" lol

[reef isle]

I tried

[rustic charm]

Well in that case you should've started an argument on frequency

"No I am telling you, I literally have no RNAV equipment of any sort"

[reef isle]

I've had enough... I got to the point where I just try my best, and if it's not good enough to the point it's not fun I'll just go away

Especially in Europe, I'm sure there's a good chunk of controllers that don't even know what it means to be non-RNAV, so good luck arguing

in the US 99% of the time it's fine

[rustic charm]

I should definitely try flying VATSIM in Europe then...

[reef isle]

To be fair, in Europe if you pick an airport that actually has non-RNAV procedure, if you just ask in advance, unless it's extremely busy they'll just give you the procedure you want

if there aren't however, then it depends on what controller you meet

[rustic charm]

Problem is, I'm pretty sure most of the major airports nowadays lack any conventional nav procedures cause they just got rid of them at this point

[reef isle]

You'd be surprised

It's not as widespread as in the US obviously, but there are still quite a few, especially in some countries

Greece you're golden, they're still stuck in 1974 with their airway and procedure system, Spain and Italy you're likely to be alright, France and Germany are about 50/50, Austria forget about it (but the controllers are good)

and to be fair to them there was an event yesterday night, but there wasn't enough traffic for that to be a factor IMO, especially given how similar the non-RNAV procedure was...

I joined right as it was ending so there wasn't much traffic at all

[rustic charm]

Honestly I'm very tempted to fly CTP on something like a DC-6 just to be a menace to society

[reef isle]

I wanted to do it in the Tu-114

in FSX

I had it planned for last year and then couldn't join 🙁

[rustic charm]

Talked about CTP with a friend yesterday, and he found a cool option for me...

Linee Aeree Italiane, a DC-6 flight going Ciampino - Malpensa - Shannon - Boston - JFK

Although I guess JFK doesn't do much RNAV anyway, it's all vectors in the US

Soing something like that would be much more fun eastbound, caue Europe relies on RNAV

Shame I don't actually have any non-RNAV long range jets

But

[reef isle]

Ah yes, LAI 😬

[rustic charm]

I have a feeling

That the L-1011 will be out by the time eastbound CTP happens

[reef isle]

🤞

[rustic charm]

Tbh I think we might even see it out in time for westbound, idk

[reef isle]

the sooner the better

(as long as it works)

[rustic charm]

Yeah

I mean, I'd be quite happy to have it today, but I doubt that's gonna happen

[reef isle]

hahah yeah I don't think so

[rustic charm]

But from the dev blogs it seemed close

[reef isle]

but didn't ini say they'd do just one more dev update before it was out?

[rustic charm]

Plus

ini does usually share such those dev updaes when it's not far off

And it's only 1 left indeed

Also well, I think just before CTP is the best possible time to release a med-range widebody like that

Cause people will just think "Oh look at this new shiny thing, I can fly it for CTP"

[fickle oar]

a340-600 tmrw as well

iirc

exciting month

[rustic charm]

Yeah

Shame nobody's sent 727s across the Atlantic in service, I'd do that lol

[trim harbor]

A220 as well this yr

hype

[rustic charm]

A lot of stuff this year

734/733

Potentially 757, hopefully

F70/100

Possibly A300B4

Possibly 747-100 and 747-400

[fickle oar]

shame its CSS doing the 73 classics

[rustic charm]

I mean, they've done a pretty good job with the 735

[fickle oar]

nah

its flyable now

but vnav is still poop, sounds are ❌ and visuals are erm

[rustic charm]

Well VNAV felt alright to me tbf, sounds are... sounds, can't say more there. And the visuals looked fine to me tbh

Don't think I've flown the latest version though, I think they did also make some visual improvements recently

One thing that I do dislike about the way they are going about it is the fact they're already working on a V2...

Like

You cannot release a plane for both FS20 and FS24 in 2025 and right away start working on a "Better, FS24-only V2 version"

[fickle oar]

i mean

fs24 offers better tools

and most customers are on 2024 too

[trim harbor]

Sexy livery

[runic hare]

ikr

[hollow oracle]

i knew that fucking landing rate calculation was weird

[dusty sky]

A340

-600?

[trim harbor]

300

[dusty sky]

No pencil, not approved

[trim harbor]

-300 is cute

[civic aspen]

Very happy with that landing

[rustic charm]

Nah

"Cute" is used to describe the likes of A319/318, A310, 767-200, 747SP

The A343 is just gorgeous

But not cute

[civic aspen]

What about the little dingus 737?

The 600

[rustic charm]

Tbh

In my opinion 737s don't have the look for "cute"

[civic aspen]

Booo

[rustic charm]

Doesn't mean they look bad of course

Cause they don't

[civic aspen]

I see all this stuff about “buttering the 737” but afaik it’s not meant to be

[rustic charm]

But in my opinion the 707/727/737 fuselage doesn't look particularly cute, it looks bit more aggressive, I'd even say sporty or something?

[civic aspen]

Boeing says the preferred is between -150 & -300 FPM

[rustic charm]

Plus the reason why the -600 can't really be cute is cause it's still longer than a 737 is actually supposed to be lol

[civic aspen]

Rue

True^

I’m waiting for the older 737’s to come still

[rustic charm]

The classics are pretty decent imo (well only the -500 for now), but I just wish we had a -200...

[civic aspen]

I do too, I want to learn them

[rustic charm]

Honestly -200 gravel kit operations over in Canada and Alaska would be so cool

Plus newer 737s already feel more like A to B planes

Older ones were...

A to B to C to D to E to... well, I'm gonna end up reciting the alphabet twice

Plus they flew to a lot of cool airports

Random runways nested between the mountains, etc

A 737-200 can land in places where a 727 would be unable to. And a 727 can land anywhere essentially

[civic aspen]

I’ve been hand flying the NG a lot

[rustic charm]

Btw, about this

I don't think buttering a landing itself does anything bad to a 737

But the side effects of that do

You might just float and run out of runway, it's mainly that

That's why you're generally not actually supposed to butter airliners. Better to land a bit rough and park at a gate than land smoothly and end up in a ditch

(AirFrance doesn't know that)

When you're flying GA, most of the time you have space at your disposal. What you often don't have is suspension. So you should try to land smoothly

On an airliner, you have suspension which can absorb quite a lot of force safely

[reef isle]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ca95a362727be722ae802fd/1555020416973-QTKMXLJSYT709299LMJT/swiss-2274131_1920.jpg

https://youtu.be/pon_c6-YMO0?si=yn1AxbLfHGnDpttk

I will never get out of my head this video whenever I think of the 220 and the Avro RJ

[rustic charm]

Cute indeed

[civic aspen]

It’s to do with the wheel wobble

[rustic charm]

That's a cute video too ngl

Swiss do great marketing I gotta say

[reef isle]

I am so increbily glad I found it after they unlisted it

[trim harbor]

the only real way to fly a 737

real chads whip the ap off at 5-7k feet and handfly it in

i also like to turn the FD off in the airbus and enable the FPA TRCK mode

makes it easier flying with the bird instead of the FD

[trim harbor]

but cute little engines 👉 👈

-300 looks better than the -600

[rustic charm]

They're not little though

In terms of looks, they're perfectly proportioned for the A340 imo

The -600 looks just bulky and long

Still pretty

But the -300 is better

[civic aspen]

That is what I do

[rustic charm]

Time for an overnight over to Malpensa

Well that seems good

Ah, of course

Imperial units selected for whichever reason

[trim harbor]

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/12021278

photo of the year

[rustic charm]

Oh yeah

Planespotters see everything

[trim harbor]

msfs froze

not good

first game crash i ever had tho

[civic aspen]

Thunderbolts and Lightning, very very frightening.

[reef isle]

Nooooo why are you using the AJP ones

The tail is wrong 😭

There should be a bit more white between the red and green

Fuck me and my immensely stupid decision to not republish the liveries as though they were new and instead push an update to the old ones

It's not even a consistent thickness
And the green part is placed inaccurately

How do people not notice this stuff 😭

The writing above the door is wrong as well

There's not enough space between the first and second name

Although TBF I didn't do that much better

But he didn't bother with the spinners

Which TBF I also could improve a little bit

I haven't looked at any reference in months

Maybe I should improve it here and then and republish it as new...

I'll have to think about it

It 100% shouldn't and I feel bad for feeling this way, but I do find it annoying how popular AJP's liveries are, and that's only because he bought the CE so he had the plane a lot earlier than me 🙁

And mostly it's my own fault anyway for pushing an update...

I could also add the logos on the Engines if I wanted to add something new

They were applied quite inconsistently IRL

[reef isle]

Why is the stripe cut off lol?

Never seen that kind of damage/weathering/mismatch(?) in any picture or video

There's no way he just truncated the stripe instead of reshaping it for the more modern variants

That's obviously incorrect

I could also make the black dot a little smaller though?

And no QNH label in the cockpit

Now you'll forget about the QNH 😭

[trim harbor]

cant be long now

[rustic charm]

Tbf I think it's just because AJP released the V2-compatible version earlier

[reef isle]

Yes 🙁

[rustic charm]

Also this is cool, I was sending screenshots in various places, so Discord deemed me a spammer, logged me out on all my devices, forced me to change the password and then made me wait 3 hours before I could send messages again...

[reef isle]

So you saw me complaining about the livery but we're unable to answer?

[rustic charm]

There apparently used to be a way to remove the "limited access" by doing something in the app, idk it probably made you do a captcha and that's it, but now the only option is to message support. And well... the support is helpful as ever. Got an auto-reply and it marked the ticket as "solved"

[reef isle]

Most useful AI agent:

[rustic charm]

Nope, to be fair you complained while I was sleeping

[reef isle]

oh good

I was hoping that was the case TBH

[rustic charm]

It was 7am

I usually wrap up around 4 or 5

[reef isle]

4 for me 🥲
I couldn't fall asleep, so quickly browsed discord a bit, then saw that and then definitely couldn't sleep

[rustic charm]

Hahah

Also welp, now I'm scared to send screenshots from the arrival lol

[reef isle]

no no you're fine

I don't have anything against you

or AJP

[rustic charm]

No I mean I'm scared because of Discord lol

"Oh god no, no no no he sent a screenshot, time to ban the account"

[reef isle]

oh hahahahah

[rustic charm]

https://www.aerosoft.com/de/detail/index/sArticle/4763 shop page is live btw

[trim harbor]

is there a price

[rustic charm]

Not yet

[trim harbor]

booo

[rustic charm]

It's out

70 euro for a limited time, then 80 euro

[trim harbor]

website crashed

[rustic charm]

Well

Lots of traffic

[trim harbor]

i cant even buy it

[dusty sky]

I can't buy it either

I can't afford it for shit

I don't even have mfs 2024

[rustic charm]

The -600 is for both FS20 and FS24

And I thank Aerosoft & ToLiss for that cause I still haven't fully moved to 2024

[trim harbor]

why though

[dusty sky]

I don't have money

I don't think 18 bucks is enough for anything

[trim harbor]

i love cpdlc

best invention ever

sun setting

man

israel is jamming

[rustic charm]

FS24 runs worse, doesn't look too much better, a lot of stuff requires me to buy it again

So I only use 24 for the things that aren't available in 20

That is just the A330 and A343 for now

[rustic charm]

Don't say it, can't say it's them

[trim harbor]

i'd assume its them

ohwell time to chill and hope it comes back quickly

[dusty sky]

It's hamas 💀

[rustic charm]

I was just joking, but well, best to not get political here

[trim harbor]

omg i cant silence the gpws anymore

nvm i got unjammed

god bless

[dusty sky]

Well fuck what I was about to say then

[rustic charm]

Tbh it's kinda cool that we have GPS jamming simulation

[trim harbor]

i agree

i wish all planes had it

[rustic charm]

Also, that's where old planes are doing better

Can't have jammed GPS

If you don't have GPS

[trim harbor]

time to start jamming the vors

[rustic charm]

Time to break out the star-based navigation then

[trim harbor]

imagine u could navigate that way in a flight sim

holy smokes

[dusty sky]

That would be insane

[rustic charm]

Well

Tbf I think you can?

[dusty sky]

Yeah bro I did a transatlantic via star based navigation

[rustic charm]

But as irl, it's really complicated

Tbf as long as the sim shows the sky correctly, you can do that

[dusty sky]

Can I eat shoes

[trim harbor]

i doubt it does

[rustic charm]

Well, there's only one way to prove

That involves knowing the stars and where they should be, and comparing that to the sim

Unfortunately for me, I don't know the stars and where they should be

[trim harbor]

its never to late to study astronavigation

nvm holy shit is it complicated

[rustic charm]

Yeah lol

Plus tbf

When it was used

I think pilots didn't really know it all that well anyway

That'd be the job of the navigator

[trim harbor]

navigator plus three other job titles

i'd argue being the pilot was the easier part back then

[rustic charm]

True

[trim harbor]

navigation plus flight engineer and then during times of war probably also bombing calculations stuff

[rustic charm]

As a pilot, generally you were responsible for just flying

Basically anything apart from the yoke, rudder and tiller is not your business

[rustic charm]

Well tbf navigators and flight engineers in the piston days were often separate on long flights

Like

When you actually would possibly need stuff like astronavigation

Oceanic hops and so on

And on short hops the VOR navigation would often actually be done by the captain/FO

But still

The FE does like 80% of the startup, all the power calculations, power management, fuel management...

[trim harbor]

when i fly the 747-200 i struggle alot doing navigation, flying and FE stuff

(i have crashed a few times because i didnt do the fuel management properly)

[rustic charm]

Unless of course you're in a DC-6 because it still has no automation at all so realistically would require at least a 3-person cockpit, if not 4, but ended up being flown by 2-people crews

So yeah, as a DC-6 captain you'd be doing a shittonload of work

[trim harbor]

aye only 1 jam this time

[rustic charm]

It's actually funny

Cause the Connie, the main competition of the DC-6, actually had a proper 3-person cockpit iirc, with a full flight engineer station

The DC-6 has none of that

[trim harbor]

man the connie

a2a PLEASE

https://youtu.be/AS2Ckc8uyUo

hands down of the best p3d addons

[rustic charm]

Well, afaik we do have a connie that's decent

I haven't tried it myself

But I've heard it's not bad

[trim harbor]

the dc6 is also fun to fly

i like it

i havent flown it a long long time

[rustic charm]

Oh it definitely is

Last time I did a flight in it, I went from Long Beach to Atlanta

In 6 fucking hours

[trim harbor]

bruh LOL

[rustic charm]

Ngl

It's really cool how much endurance those planes have

Like, the DC-6 can fly for around 14 hours iirc

[trim harbor]

dc6 in CTP lets go

[rustic charm]

But whenever you think of it, it feels like more than it really is

[trim harbor]

im pretty sure it can do it

[rustic charm]

Cause a DC-6's 14 hours is a 737's 7 hours

[rustic charm]

Easily

[rustic charm]

That's normal lol

Also tbf

It's a piston prop

[trim harbor]

god i hope the weathers good

[rustic charm]

Often initial altitude is your cruise altitude

[trim harbor]

nah it goes up to FL130

[rustic charm]

Cause you don't actually need to step up as much as in jets

Jets become more efficient the higher you climb

[trim harbor]

taking off at max TOW a swell

[rustic charm]

In a piston aircraft? You'd just climb to whatever altitude that provides you good clearance over any terrain and expected weather and stay there

[rustic charm]

Also about that

A friend told me I should do this for CTP

You with me?

[trim harbor]

holy christ

4 legs

oh no

[rustic charm]

Possibly 5

Don't be thinking you've seen it all though

Cause that's a total of what, 18:30 planned block time

[trim harbor]

yea

i wonder if they used to do it with one crew

[rustic charm]

I can also offer you the BCPA route

5 legs

Auckland/Sydney - Vancouver

Auckland - Vancouver ends up around 32 hours of total block time

Sydney - Vancouver around 34

[rustic charm]

Definitely not

That's way too long

Count the stop times too

You'd get over 24 hours of total time

[dusty sky]

There is an A330-800neo in xplane correct?

[rustic charm]

Well

Not over

You'd get 21:30 of total time, plus whatever time it takes at the origin and destination

So definitely 2 crews

[trim harbor]

900