Flight Sims (MSFS, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, FS98...)

[reef isle]

https://www.patreon.com/c/ablomis/posts

I did

but wasn't selected 🫤

[rustic charm]

Or did I apply? I might’ve lol, don’t remember

[reef isle]

considering that there aren't many soviet planes even in FSX my hopes are very low

[rustic charm]

Yeah

[reef isle]

a lot of them don't have a 3D cockpit (for example the Tu-104/124)

[rustic charm]

Tu-104 would be quite fun ngl

There was a separate seat basically in the nosecone, which was of course glass

[reef isle]

it definitely would, some time I'll learn to fly the FSX one, even though I'd find it pretty hard without a 3D cockpit

[reef isle]

I mean, that was a thing until the Tu-134

[rustic charm]

Yeah

[reef isle]

The IL-76 had it even

[trim harbor]

theres a 76 for xp11 though

[reef isle]

it's crazy how much that lasted in the Soviet Union compared to the West

[rustic charm]

Il-76 is a plane that at different points had pretty much everything lol

[reef isle]

Yeah, but it's bad, even the russian version which is more up to date than the one on Xplane.org

[trim harbor]

oh

f

[reef isle]

I did the CTL with that

didn't go particularly well

wasn't too bad

but I had to tune the autopilot constants while I was in cruise so I could trust it and look away for a few minutes

also at the end I couldn't really contol it properly for some reason and had to reload it

but then landed fine

[rustic charm]

A comprehensive Il-76 would probably be one of the best ways to get a Soviet plane into MSFS

Of course lots of work

[trim harbor]

thats how i felt w the f28

f70 my love please

faster

[rustic charm]

But I’m certain that everyone can find something they enjoy doing in an Il-76

[reef isle]

No, I mean I opened the developer mode and changed the PID constants

[trim harbor]

OH

bruh lmfao

wtf\

[reef isle]

yeah...

[trim harbor]

u must know something about aircraft development

if you're able to do that

respectf

[reef isle]

so for some reason the devs implemented some big, not deadzone, but some big curves around the center and the A/P didn't really cope with that well

it tried to correct but nothing happened

[rustic charm]

You want to fly gauges? Can do. You want to land on unpaved runways? Can do. You’re scared to fly gauges? Some 76s have glass cockpits now I’m pretty sure…

[reef isle]

so I had to make it VERY sensitive so that it would actually act when needed

[reef isle]

Just some very basic stuff 😅

[rustic charm]

That is definitely not the way it should be

[reef isle]

I mean, it might be a way to represent a part of the FM, it was quite early in development

when they abandoned it they were halfway through writing their own custom A/P which I'm sure would have taken that into account

[rustic charm]

Well, a shame it got abandoned

[reef isle]

Yeah, although I feel like the IL-76 would be more of an end-goal

especially for a small studio

same for something like the Tu-154

you either have someone who is very passionate, knowledgeable about developing a plane and the plane and is very commited to actually finishing it or I'd rather have something simpler

[rustic charm]

Well yeah, if you wanna represent it decently, Il-76 would require soooo much work

[reef isle]

I was pretty impressed when I heard that the Bear thing studios' MiG-25 had RSBN

I'm eagerly awaiting for it to go on sale to buy it

ah no it was from GKS

[rustic charm]

Cause again, so many things in there, so many variations, so many modules to make

[reef isle]

yeah

[rustic charm]

Doesn’t help that Il-76 is pretty much a testing plane. Wanna try out a new engine? Stick it on an Il-76

[reef isle]

yeah, it was the do-anything-you-need-to plane

ahah

I'm still a bit disappointed that we had a fairly decent AN-225 and then nothing else

[rustic charm]

It was by ini wasn’t it?

[reef isle]

like, if that for ini (which is a HUGE dev) was almost a "sideline" project, why not do more 😭

[reef isle]

yep

[rustic charm]

They could’ve easily then continued and done at the very least an An-124

[reef isle]

yeah exactly

[rustic charm]

That would share sooooo many common parts

[reef isle]

the 225 is such a specialized and niche plane 🫤

[rustic charm]

And on quite a lot of other planes too, even by other manufacturers, you could still use some things from the 225

I wonder what are ini gonna do next though

Cause they had some story about the 1011 didn’t they?

[reef isle]

Yeah

if we're lucky maybe that'll be before the A380?

but I doubt it

[rustic charm]

They’re still making the 380?

[reef isle]

yep

[rustic charm]

Weird decision, considering there is a free one now which as far as I know almost everyone considers good enough

[reef isle]

eh... considering the A350/380/A400 commonality it's probably not going to be that huge of an undertaking, and as long as it's better than the FBW it's going to sell

because of course it will, it's an A380 😄

survived a bad vis landing in Almaty, happy with that 😄

I've learned it at one point but need to get used to doing DME arcs with this thing's weird instrumentation again 🤪

(also no idea what the multiple landings after rollout are about 🤷 )

[hollow oracle]

took off, and tracking VORs just fine in the 732, but im not sure how you manage descent or climb

do you literally disconnect elevator AP and just manage that by hand, or is there a more graceful way im missing

for some reason the aircraft refuses to track VORs sometimes too

i was set to my destination airport VOR, on the approach radial, and it tracked it on the display, autopilot is set up for it and everything, but didnt track it

now its properly tracking it, after ive left the airport entirely

[hollow oracle]

where tf is the pitch hold though

i see the ALT hold switch, and the IAS and ALT hold rotating switch

this is what i wanted to do, vs what actually happened

i was going to track the lanai city VOR to bring me into the range of the airport VOR to get me set up on final

[hollow oracle]

the manuals included dont even cover remotely anything near this

[trim harbor]

https://chucksguides.com/aircraft/xp11/flyjsim-737-200/#[136,"XYZ",0,540,null]

[hollow oracle]

i still cant find how you manage your descent after reading through that manual

does the aircraft just assume that the altitude you have selected in the box is what it needs to hit at the VOR or whatever?

because otherwise, how do you manage the descent to get it on time?

[reef isle]

Yep

There's a vertical mode that's more or less like the A320 without A/P

It will keep a certain deck angle and will keep the plane more or less in trim

Usually to climb after flap recreation and power reduction I climb in that mode, and then set the speed bug to 250kts, as soon as I'm at 230/240 I select IAS, then passing 10.000ft I select 280kts

As soon as I get to Mach .65 or .70 I'll go back to that "manual" mode and keep the right Mach number

To descend I just use that manual mode the whole way through

[reef isle]

Did you try to use NAV mode?

Forget it, it's terrible

It's usable with the FMC or the INS

[hollow oracle]

how the fuck else are you supposed to fly it then

[reef isle]

With VORs just use the heading command to manually center the HSI

[hollow oracle]

Even with the CIVA your tracking VORs as well as coordinates

[reef isle]

Not really

If you're in "GPS" mode (there's a switch in the cockpit) you'll always follow the CIVA

Even if you put a waypoint on top of a VOR

In fact you won't need to tune the VOR

[hollow oracle]

My whole life is a lie

[reef isle]

It's just another coordinate as far as the CIVA is concerned, it doesn't know it's a VOR

How would it know? 😄

It's a totally separate and independent system

[hollow oracle]

I thought with CIVA you basically did both, you programmed waypoints, and any VOR you had on the way you would tune it, switch over, and then follow that

[reef isle]

nope

The only way it interfaces with the plane is driving the HSI

That's it

What you're describing is a more integrated early Inertial Navigation System, like the one that the 737 Classic has

In fact in the Classic you can tune VORs, and those will be used to correct the INS' position

But that's not what happens with the Carousel, if you want to correct/update the position you have to do it using a different method, which is explained in the CIVA manual

[hollow oracle]

so with the CIVA, you just plug in the waypoints, and it just follows them as it goes along, even VORs and stuff?

[reef isle]

Yep

But it will of course drift with time

To switch between CIVA and VORs you need to flick the GPS/NAV switch

It's IIRC above and to the right of the artificial horizon

(for CIVA you want that in the GPS position)

[hollow oracle]

and then to do an ILS/LOC approach, you tune the ILS frequency in the nav radio and then switch it back over to nav, right?

and set up the autopilot (and optionally the FD) to the ILS modes?

[reef isle]

Yes

[reef isle]

Yes, F/D to "Auto APP" or something like that IIRC

This is how you do a CIVA position correction/update

But honestly for these kinds of flight I'd just not bother with CIVA @hollow oracle

It was very rare in 737s and 727s IRL anyways

[hollow oracle]

so, just VOR flying?

[reef isle]

Yeah, a lot of US carriers kept them VOR only until they were scrapped in the '90s and 2000s

It was way more common to have some early FMCs/GPS units fitted to them compared to the CIVA until

(which unfortunately aren't available for the FJS 737)

I guess CIVA could be a decent substitute for those

But that was mostly happening in Europe

[hollow oracle]

how would you do VOR navigation without a flight engineer, or just a seperate navigator position

because from what i can tell, its a lot of figuring out headings and stuff

[reef isle]

You tune the VOR and you select the course?

It's not that much work 😅

[full plank]

instruction unclear, dick stuck in engine

[reef isle]

I have developed a method to it very easily

So, this will be confusing, I'll try to be clear

[hollow oracle]

VOR distance stuff is what really gets me i guess, because to work with VORs that are far away, you would have to use heading mode, which then youd kind of have to look at charts to figure out where you're supposed to be headed

like, if i did this routing, it would be 3 VORs i would track, hilo, lanai, and maui, but theyre so far apart i would lose signal to both hilo and lanai by the time im at (roughly) the PUMIC waypoint, so id have to use headings to find my way until i can pick up the VOR again

[reef isle]

So, you have two NAV radios with 2 possible frequencies each, a "standby" and an "active", this how I'll express them

ACTIVE | STBY || STBY | ACTIVE

So let's say I was here

I'd have

YXU | FNT || YXU | FNT

That means that using the indicator I can still make sure I'm heading towards the VOR, and I can still see the DME 2 (and check my distance to YXU so I know when to turn), but I'm already set up to track the inbound heading for the FNT vor

[hollow oracle]

oh yeah, thats another thing, what radio does the aircraft prioritize for navigation, the captains side?

[reef isle]

Yes, active left side

[hollow oracle]

got it, and then the right side is basically just reference for the VOR2 display and stuff?

[reef isle]

Yes

DME1 is inside the HSI

[hollow oracle]

that makes a lot more sense

[reef isle]

To the right of the HSI you have DME 2

[hollow oracle]

about how far do VORs track out anyway?

[reef isle]

Some 150NM, others 70

Or something in between

Never expected more than 150

I'd recommend flying a bit in the East Coast and following this kind of SIDs and STARs

They'll be challenging, but they'll teach you some good manners

And you have the proper heading and courses

[hollow oracle]

how do you even follow proper SIDs and STARs with just VORs

i assumed that if you were flying VOR, you wouldnt be following that

[reef isle]

Look at the one above, each route segment is defined as a VOR radial between two DME points

That's all you need

Nobody forces you to overfly a VOR

I'll have a hard time finding it now, but I had a VOR only route that didn't overfly one single VOR

[hollow oracle]

ohhhhhh

so if your going to do that last bit from the palmdale VOR, youd actually be tracking one of those upper VORs shown?

[reef isle]

No because I'm a fucking idiot and sent the wrong thing

I'll wait until I'm at my PC again 😭

[hollow oracle]

im going to give it another shot with this idea

[reef isle]

That's what I actually wanted to send

[reef isle]

But yeah, that's the right idea

[reef isle]

But that's just an airport

It's not a VOR

[hollow oracle]

you get what i mean though

[reef isle]

Yeah

And that's important to understand

[hollow oracle]

im gonna give this another shot, but i dont know if its going to work, or if im going to have enough time

im still confused as far as the descent goes too

[reef isle]

(Current Altitude - Altitude you want to reach) x3

[hollow oracle]

i mean, as far as the actual aircraft itself goes with the autopilot

[reef isle]

So you have a restriction at 10.000, and you're at 20.000, 20-10 = 10, 10x3 = 30

[reef isle]

I use that pitch hold manual mode

The whole way through

[hollow oracle]

would that be the IAS switch, and then the pitch cmd knob?

[reef isle]

no, it's the default mode once you put the elevator "paddle" (switch) on but don't select anything in the rotary control

[hollow oracle]

and then the pitch cmd knob?

[reef isle]

That's just for the Flight Director

It doesn't do anything to the autopilot

It'll hold where you leave it

You can still move the stick/cloche up and down

When you let it go and put it in the neutral position it will hold that

[hollow oracle]

with autopilot on?

[reef isle]

Yep

It won't disconnect unless you try to trim

Because that's how you're supposed to use it AFAIK 😅

[hollow oracle]

its just so hard to get a grasp on because its so different from anything ive ever flown before

even compared to the 727

[reef isle]

Yeah that's fair enough

Just treat it as an A320 with the A/P off

[full plank]

lovely MD11

[hollow oracle]

why

its tracking the radial, its even turning into it, but for some reason it turned extremely late and overshot it

is that normal or am i missing something

or is it that slant alpha navigation or whatever

[reef isle]

Sounds about right

Just NAV mode being rubbish

Also the closer you are to the VOR the more the HSI will move quickly

The reason should be obvious if you see all the radials coming out of the VOR, they'll be ""closer togheter"" the closer you get to the center

[hollow oracle]

it looks really crazy, but its tracking it fine now

[reef isle]

Yeah then that's just NAV mode being nav mode

Unless winds are calm it's probably going to continue to overcorrect and hunt around the radial

[hollow oracle]

I didn’t know they had meal service on a 30 minute flight

[rustic charm]

This whole 732 talk is tempting

Why can’t we have one in MSFS

At least there’s a 727

But I do hope that FSS will do a 732 once they’re done with the 722, cause to be honest they’re quite similar

[hollow oracle]

wen

[ocean trellis]

bro choose broccoli 💀
-# actually i dont hate it that much but for the memes

[hollow oracle]

yes, because i am not 2 years old

broccoli is awesome, especially with ranch

[rustic charm]

With accurate maintenance history simulation

Inoperative half of the plane

7 fires

13 ditchings

[hollow oracle]

that sam chui video where he shows that they had to put a pan under the engines to catch the leaking oil is still fucking insane to me

i wouldnt even drive a car doing that, let alone an entire aircraft

https://youtu.be/D_VQ1YZvFSQ?si=IIxHWaNzlTp5x3Rw

[rustic charm]

Aerosucre is hella fun though

I have no fucking idea how they managed to overload a 727 so much that it didn’t have enough time to climb and literally intercepted the runway localiser at Bogota

[hollow oracle]

lots and lots of undocumented cocaine

[rustic charm]

Bogota is a big airport with big runways

[hollow oracle]

i love when they do takeoffs where they float above the runway by a few ft, retract the landing gear, and then climb

[trail monolith]

Aerosucre 747 wen?

[rustic charm]

I’m pretty sure 343s have been there. And those planes are basically powered by 4 APUs

[trim harbor]

W AIRLINE

[full plank]

sadly won't have time to complete the entire flight, but the pax version was the only one I had custom views for & I wanted to see all the fuss with the new MD11 update

[hollow oracle]

i get it now, you sort of use the yoke as the adjustment for the vertical speed, im descending at a solid 1500fpm now

you only use ALT hold when your kinda nearing your altitude

well, i overran the runway, but i did land pretty okay

floated way too long, somehow it was 1.5Gs too??? even though it was a -195fpm landing and i stretched it pretty far

and of course the replay doesnt want to load because of reasons

i actually floated 3 seperate times

Like, I went to land, floated, went to land again, floated again, and again

[reef isle]

You'll have to get used to it

On X-Plane you can actually feel the ground effect, you can let it do most of the work for the flare

[hollow oracle]

The issue I have is that i consciously think of doing a flare, and every time i think about it, its always too much, because i do it on view and not from the horizon

It also doesn’t help that the first line on the artificial horizon on the 732 is 10 degrees, no lines in between

[reef isle]

I think the usual advice is to look at the far end of the runway

and judge it off of that

I think while on approach you should focus your attention and eyesight on the 1000ft markers, as that's your aiming point, as you start to flare you should see the end of the runway

[reef isle]

I just put a crosshair in the middle of the screen to show you where I'm more or less looking at, consider that I'm more then likely always looking a bit above it

also consider that it's a fairly non standard landing as I came in faster than usual (to avoid a gust killing me), so I came in lower to let it float a bit to kill off the excess speed

[hollow oracle]

i see, ive heard the "look at the runway" bit, but i never really connected how to use it

[hollow oracle]

its just that my brain thinks "flare", but when i think about it, i want to consciously make a huge pitch up like im taking off or something, even though it really only needs 1 or 2 degrees at most

i also dont think it helps that this was literally my first landing ever on the 737-200, and it is extremely small and has short landing gear

[hollow oracle]

i think its honestly more impressive that i managed to float like that, than if i got a regular smooth landing

somehow that was 1.5G too

it was firm but not hard by any means

you can tell that i was basically flaring at the right time, every time, but i was just about 2-3ft higher than i thought i was

[hollow oracle]

thats another thing that really messes me up too, the engines are microscopic they take no time at all to start

[hollow oracle]

the G count in xplane has to be incorrect

there is no way i keep getting almost 2G landings

with good FPM too

it really isnt helping my case that the runways in kahului are microscopic, 7000ft and 5000ft

navigating wasnt that bad either surprisingly, i just had to do an extra loop because i got distracted and forgot to start my descent

[rustic charm]

Tbh in MSFS you can sometimes feel it too, but not always

I’ve had landings where I flare just a bit too high and the plane refuses to touch the runway at all

[runic hare]

Nope this is possible

It’s how much energy you carry into the runway

FPM is a measure of speed

So you can have a landing of avoid -50fpm and still have it at about 1.5g because the flare was violent

[runic hare]

Idk if anyone else is subscribed to marco’s newsletter but that’s cute as fuck

[reef isle]

Yeah but it's no secret that Volanta is wacky when it comes to that stuff

[runic hare]

Oh I assumed they was using the lua plugin

[dusky leaf]

Are the x-crafts e jets able to hold over a fix yet?

Free month of x-box game pass

on a quick 2 min looksee the heli flight model is better than expected

more investigation required

[runic hare]

Yes

ILS autotune as well

Directs are still fucked tho

Doesn’t go from ppos goes from your last waypoint

[dusky leaf]

on further investigation just no

[dusky leaf]

zero ish forward airspeed and climbing at 22000 ft 😆 - still no vrs to speak of better than 2020 but not great

[dusky leaf]

The crapenado 185 is decent, not very crap at all

[trim harbor]

@reef isle is this u lol

[hollow oracle]

gonna try a longer flight in the 737-200, wish me luck

thinking nashville to orlando on southwest, the old gold scheme

i dont think im going to mess with SID/STARs yet, im just going to focus on enroute VOR navigation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hv-HxkDB-U

[reef isle]

Yes 😄

[trim harbor]

wtf is that

that looks like that one french airline

la compagine or whatever

[hollow oracle]

if the K in KLM stood for korea

[trim harbor]

urgh

[rustic charm]

Bring back pepsi

[hollow oracle]

I don’t think you can even do RNAV SID/STARs with VOR-only navigation, right?

Which is like 90% of them nowadays

[reef isle]

Correct

By definition, RNAV means to be able to navigate without ground based navigational aids (it's a bit more complicated but that should be enough)

Although in the US non-RNAV (conventional) SID/STARs are quite common still

Same for other nations (Japan and S. Korea for example) and some EU countries

[trim harbor]

flying the f4 again

jfc im out of shape

[runic hare]

I went to duxford today

Girlfriend is plane veg

Like the only 3 pics I took

[trim harbor]

i was wondering why the flaps werent working

[reef isle]

VC-10 ❤️

[runic hare]

They had the Concorde hangar closed in the morning so the royal BAe146 was open when it’s usually closed for private tours only

Didn’t get any pics

But my god

It literally has the exact same ovens as we do on our planes 😂😂

Same brand of water boiler as well

VC10 was closed but the Trident and the Britannia was open

The trident is really really cool

The Britannia is less cool but still very cool

[green egret]

25$ well spent

[trail monolith]

Rip the baggage

[rustic charm]

That happens

The baggage was never heard from again

[trim harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i4GOpqYdBI

[trail monolith]

It's also releasing for FS24

[reef isle]

we going to Tegel with this one

[trim harbor]

shrikes are iffy jesus

i think they might just be broken actually

[reef isle]

Tegel 😄

Just like Stapleton and Munich Riem, it might be closed but still lives in my heart flight sim

[rustic charm]

Nice

[reef isle]

I appreciate the german controllers so much for letting me fly in and out of there

[rustic charm]

I’m on the second leg of a delivery to Germany right now coincidentally

Well, it’d be the first leg of the delivery actually

Boeing Field to Halifax

I just also do the hops between Renton and Boeing Field

A VOR coast to coast trip on a 727… lovely

Except I’m not delivering it to Lufthansa or any German airline…

[reef isle]

Condor?

[rustic charm]

Nope

[reef isle]

o wait that's german

aahahahha

[rustic charm]

Try over an ocean from there

[reef isle]

non german airline with 727s in Germany?

[rustic charm]

Yep

[reef isle]

Pan Am?

[rustic charm]

Yep

[reef isle]

UAL?

Nice 😄

oh that's really cool

at some point I'll do a few of those flights as well

it's so trippy looking at images of heathrow with random UAL 727s in there

also Pan Am operated freaking ATR72s in Germany

[runic hare]

tehehehe

[reef isle]

what's crazy is that I believe those weren't chartered or operated by other airlines, they were ACTUAL UAL/PAA flights

assuming they'd be operated by their US-based crews

[rustic charm]

I randomly saw a picture of a Pan Am 727 and was like, “Hey, those buildings look quite Soviet”

[rustic charm]

Oh yeah, they were actually PAA, at least in PAA case. They basically operated those to feed their transatlantic flights on European side

[reef isle]

Yeah

I assume some crew memeber every now and again would get to stay a week in Europe or something

[rustic charm]

Probably yeah

[reef isle]

Some time ago I found a photo of a UAL 727 in Heathrow in the middle of all EU airlines

I'm trying to find that

[trail monolith]

This one? https://www.planespotters.net/photo/232850/n7460u-united-airlines-boeing-727-222-adv

[reef isle]

https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0074346.jpg

this one

it couldn't look any more out of place

[trim harbor]

tempelhof my love

tegel is cool as well though

it wasnt a too good airport irl imho

[reef isle]

Yeah I've heard

I think none of Berlin's airport was good tbh (from what I've heard)

[trim harbor]

: (

[reef isle]

and BER continues to carry that legacy

[trim harbor]

i wish i could've seen it in operation

[reef isle]

Can't get much more '70s than that ahahah

[trim harbor]

biggest pity

[trim harbor]

BER is so goddamn terrible

[reef isle]

It's crazy that it was pretty much Air Berlin's airport, and the airline didn't live long enough to ever use it

[runic hare]

BER isn't that bad tbf

[reef isle]

(or rather, the airport got so delayed)

[trim harbor]

i've only had bad experiences in ber

[runic hare]

just the ryanair bit thats shitty

[reef isle]

Not talking as a pax/ops point of view

but the airport itself is just so massively overbuilt

[runic hare]

oh yeah 100%

[reef isle]

and is optimized for traffic that doesn't really exist in Berlin

[trim harbor]

i was gonna say that

i find it horrible that the nations' capital

barely has any international flights

80% of the flights are made by RYR or EZY

[reef isle]

Yeah it's a bit weird, most international flights from Germany are out of Frankfurt or Munchen

The only big airline with a hub in Berlin was Air Berlin

once it ceased to exist Berlin more or less stopped to have through traffic (which was the traffic BER was built to handle 🙃 )

[rustic charm]

Pan Am too iirc, Tempelhof

[trim harbor]

pan am beauty

pan am had a mf flight to SYLT

[rustic charm]

But yeah somehow Berlin is basically forgotten and Frankfurt is the main German gateway

[reef isle]

For once, I'm actually speaking about modern times, around when BER was drawn/built (which TBF it's been so long...)

[trim harbor]

wait yo pan am flew to tempelhof with a 727

[rustic charm]

Yep

[reef isle]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Pan_Am_Express.jpg

Best way to get to Sylt

[trim harbor]

thats a sick flight idea

[rustic charm]

Internal German Service

[trim harbor]

wait a second

[rustic charm]

Pan Am had a regional fleet based in Germany

[trim harbor]

where did pan am fly to from berlin

[reef isle]

A lot of EU destinations

[hollow oracle]

the FSS 727 got an update, and FINALLY fixed the GSX automation which broke most stuff

[trim harbor]

wow that's actually insane

[reef isle]

IIRC Pan Am more than most other US airlines had this thing of setting up secondary hubs overseas

I mean, most airlines did it, but Pan Am went absolutely crazy with it

[trim harbor]

so it was

german flight attendants

american pilots

bruh

pan am moved to tegel in 1975

[reef isle]

yeah not surprised, I think EU Pilots would need to get FAA ceritifications to fly US registered planes

and all their EU fleet was US registered

[trim harbor]

still super damn cool honestly

[reef isle]

A lot of airlines nowadays use code sharing/alliances/leasing/chartering to do this stuff

[reef isle]

Have a good flight 😄

[rustic charm]

Thanks

[trim harbor]

what a conincidence

[rustic charm]

Cruising over Montana right now

[rustic charm]

Well that’s how the conversations tarted, I mentioned I was doing a Pan Am delivery to Germany xD

[trim harbor]

i have dementia

[rustic charm]

Under 4 hours left seemingly

I just noticed that for the past like 30 minutes I was slowly slowly descending

Should be at FL370, got to 335

Somehow the autopilot went from altitude hold to vspeed at -100fpm

So easy to miss something like that in the 727

Modern planes would right away give a warning if you got around 1000ft away from your needed altitude

[reef isle]

72 should as well

[rustic charm]

Hmm weird

I’ve never noticed it giving me a warning

Not today, not any other time

[hollow oracle]

the FE says "thousand to go", based on your set altitude

[reef isle]

no chime?

Interesting

[rustic charm]

Yeah, no chime

[rustic charm]

That only happens when you approach your altitude, not deviate from it

[hollow oracle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/VATSIM/s/sg5oWTooAd

VATSIM finally imploding is so awesome to see

[hollow oracle]

very turbulent departure, but we're schmoovin

[trim harbor]

@untold finch

you've flown bms quite abit right

[hollow oracle]

still not super great at VOR navigation i guess

it doesnt help that it feels like the VOR tracking is just wrong

if you cycle the autopilot mode switch, it actually starts tracking the VOR properly, like it gets refreshed

like?

im on the 154 radial out of rome, but its not right

not to mention its off course and doing nothing about it, but if i cycle the AP switch it works again

i get that it wont be 100% accurate, but like, im not even going in the right general direction?

[hollow oracle]

the line connecting RMG to TAY is 154deg according to navigraph, but why wouldnt the radials be lined up with that?

now that im in range of the TAY VOR, i switched my navigation to that one, and now its on the correct radial, how the fuck do i do it when i wasnt even in range?

[untold finch]

It was toward the end of summer last year, but I got a few weeks of it in for sure

[rustic charm]

So yeah, my ambitions of delivering this 72 from Boeing Field to Berlin in 2 legs are now changing a bit

Now planning for 4 legs instead. Right now Halifax (if can make it, otherwise Bangor), from there to St. John’s to absolutely minimise the distance of the Atlantic crossing, then to Cork, and from there to Germany (Berlin or Frankfurt, I haven’t quite decided yet, probably Berlin)

[reef isle]

I've tried to tell you so many time 😭

Just use Heading

although that seems particulatly bad

[reef isle]

yeah I've noticed that as well

same happens if you recycle the F/D

[hollow oracle]

Wouldn’t that gradually blow you off course?

[trail monolith]

Just move it back and forth i suppose is a easy fix?

Like if your heading off course just turn it a bit back then forward until you're in line with it

[rustic charm]

Welp folks, in the end, this guy is not making it to Halifax today. I am starting my descent and in around half an hour I will hopefully be parked up at Bangor

Low on fuel, Halifax is just a bit too far… potentially because I spent the first half of the cruise at mach .86 and the rest at .82 while I should’ve stayed at .80 the whole way according to my plan

[full plank]

do enjoy a good Tegel flight, despite not being staffed on Vatsim I fly there regularly

[reef isle]

Always correct

Just keep an eye on it

you'll have to put it 2/3/5deg left or right from time to time

I also allow it to deviate quite a bit, as long as there's positivie trend

about halfway between the first dots

I'm happy with this amount of deviation, no idea how realistic it is

you can see it here

Now, Volanta shows the route as they'd look on a flat map (they show it as a rhumb line and not a great circle), but these distances shouldn't be enough for that to be a problem

[rustic charm]

Bit of deviation is fine

You can’t get it all exactly right with manual VOR navigation

Just finished today’s flight and here I was not always on point either

I made myself a route by using the closest VORs

But when you’re doing a coast to coast trip, you still have fair distances

Not all VORs will always capture

Some have good range so you’ll be fine with them

Others have a range of like 30 miles and you’ll be questioning whether that VOR even exists

YVV for me didn’t capture at all. The DME worked and showed 16 miles, the directions to the beacon didn’t even appear on the instruments

[trim harbor]

what periphs are u using

is it hard to set bms up

[hollow oracle]

that is pretty frustrating, thankfully it was half off at least

glad i have it, but i dont know if im going to fly it much going forward

[reef isle]

You definitely need to micromange it

Especially the navigation

[rustic charm]

Welp, yesterday only made it as far as Bangor, now going to start the leg 2 of the delivery - Bangor to St John’s, hoping to get as far as Cork today

The 727 is always enjoyable. Even when VORs give you a big fucking headache and you realise you don’t have the fuel to get to your destination either

Love flying to Canada, my reserve fuel is almost as much as my whole trip fuel

I remember flying from Yellowknife to Rankin Inlet. Literally my only alternative airport was Yellowknife, so I had to carry fuel for a potential trip all the way back

[rustic charm]

Well, landing St. John’s will be fun it seems like

Overcast at 200ft, mist, almost no visibility

[rustic charm]

An hour left until Cork

Might take it a bit further to be honest

[hollow oracle]

ive never felt more called out in my life

[untold finch]

From memory...

• Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 base with 20cm extension and TM Warthog stick grip
• TM Warthog throttle
• MFG Crosswind Pedals
• TM MFD frames
• TotalControls button box
• Razer Tartarus keypad

[untold finch]

Not in the new menu, no - it's almost a little easier than DCS was for me

[rustic charm]

Welp, I just landed in Cardiff, which means I can even get to Tempelhof today

Now the only question is…

How tf do you VOR-navigate Europe to land in an airport long gone

[trim harbor]

Did it detect ur perihps autp

I remember having the issue where it didnt detect half of it

[hollow oracle]

i am starting to hate xplane again

2.5G landing, and i STILL wasnt able to stop in time

how the fuck do you land aircraft?????

holy fuck i had a handea in the MD-11 too, i bounced several ft into the air, thinking i was on the ground and the nose was just coming back up

2.5G my fucking ass

[untold finch]

I think so? It was a long while ago though

[hollow oracle]

this sim fucking sucks, how is it COMPLETELY different from landing in MSFS

i have had 0 runway excursions in MSFS in my actually literally hundreds of flights and thousands of hours in any aircraft, but all of a sudden in xplane, 2 out of 6 landings have had that, and all have been extremely hard

[reef isle]

Well the MD-11 is notoriously hard to land

with the 737 you just have to get used to it

I can try and record a couple of landing with input visualisation for you

if you think that could be useful

[reef isle]

You had too much energy - you were too fast

[hollow oracle]

i was right on the vref for landing at flaps 35

[reef isle]

+too much nose up input

[hollow oracle]

actually even less, the MD-11 automatically kills the throttle

[reef isle]

interesting

[hollow oracle]

too much???

[reef isle]

Yeah, you can see the nose lifting up after the mains are planted in the ground

at 0:11

until 0:16

[hollow oracle]

you REALLY dont want to plant the nose down when you bounce, i do know that for a fact

[reef isle]

yes, but once you have the mains on the ground you should definitely derotate the aircraft

I mean, what you did is better than ending up in PIO and with a broken gear and the plane upside down

[hollow oracle]

2.1G is enough to bend the fuselage like a pretzel

[reef isle]

Don't trust Volanta's G-Rating

[hollow oracle]

that was the in-game menu i had (though ive since been told that it sucks anyway)

volanta was even showing 1.7G or something

[reef isle]

I see, no idea how good that is

to judge my landings I just go be feel+replay 🤷

fpm can sometimes be misleading too

[hollow oracle]

i judge mostly by Gs, the only thing that fpm is useful for is judging how steep your approach was

[reef isle]

I mean........ kinda?

[hollow oracle]

volanta averages it from the last 5 seconds or so before you landed

[reef isle]

oh does it, interesting

[hollow oracle]

so you could have a steep approach in but a smooth landing and it owuld still show as a high fpm

[reef isle]

I see

[rustic charm]

Basically how it goes for me and the 727

I love that plane, but I fly it rarely

Tbh I also tend to out the triple down quite harshly because I mostly fly narrowbodies that are much closer to the ground. Do my best on the triple, but it’s mostly just a bit stronger than on the 737s

[hollow oracle]

i dont get flaring

whats the purpose, to lose speed, to sort of get some extra lift right before landing, to plant the rear wheels from the rotation?

[hollow oracle]

I feel like I’m struggling because I don’t understand the why

[rustic charm]

If you do not flare, your kinetic energy is directed right into the runway, which means you land really hard and most likely bounce because the runway tries to give back all of the force you put onto it when you hit it

When you flare, the vector of the plane’s kinetic energy starts shifting upwards. Now it shouldn’t shift too far, it shouldn’t start pointing up, otherwise you won’t touch the ground at all. It should still point down, just not as much

[reef isle]

the main point is to arrest your vertical descent rate

but also, to make sure you don't end up back in the air again you also need to lose speed

so I guess the two main objectives are (in order of importance):

1. Reduce your vertical speed
2. Slow down

[rustic charm]

I pretty much never land at the approach speed, it’s always a fair way slower

In fact I often idle the throttle way before touching down too. Descending through 50ft you can just idle it, of course having it in idle means bigger response time for a goaround, but really, it is very rare that you would go around below 50ft

[dusky leaf]

Propliners you need to keep some power on and fly them on to the runway, not easy to do.

[rustic charm]

Yeah, tbh, only talking for jet airliners here, cause I have no experience with anything else. They weigh more and approach quicker, so the inertia is absolutely enough to descend the last 50ft

[reef isle]

Yep that's what supposed to happen 😄

although I have to say in MSFS planes are happy to stay in the air even wthen they're really slow

on Xplane you'll have to be a little bit more careful

in general in MSFS you're flying the way all the way until touchdown more, on Xplane you can just pull and let ground effect do the rest

on MSFS it feels more of a science, in the sense that you need very specific control inputs to get the plane to do what you want, on Xplane it's more based on feel and visual cues

that's what I felt anyway, your milage may vary

[hollow oracle]

I’m kind of confused too, the MD-11 is supposed to be landed pretty fast, but even at the vspeeds it gives me, it still seems too fast

That last approach was like 165ish I think

[hollow oracle]

going to try again, im going to try a more gradual flare, at 50ft, and cutting the engines significantly later

im going to have to fight the autothrottle, but it cuts automatically at 50ft and i think thats way too early, and why im getting hard landings, im basically stalling and slamming into the runway

[hollow oracle]

my vref this time is 156, vapp is 161

[hollow oracle]

i floated so fucking long that RAAS gave me the long landing warning again

i dont get it

i either float or slam into the runway, there's no in-between

volanta says it was 1.4G and -264

the in-game one says it was -406 and 0.9g

its acceptable but not nearly as soft as id like it to be

one thing that definitely helped was disabling autopilot at around 500ft RA instead of right at minimums, its a little scary but having that extra time to just feel out and control the aircraft really helps get a feel for landing

like, if i flared maybe half a second later it would be a perfect landing, but i always misjudge my descent rate and flare just a microscopic bit too early

unfortunately i think my problem is just down to experience, im going to have to have a shitty few landings, i just have to keep to short flights so i dont waste a 4+ hour flight because of some shitty landing

thats another thing too, the thrust reversers take AGES to start revving up, because the main engines have to fully go to idle before it starts going the other direction (which isnt even really a thing)

[hollow oracle]

I think I need to come in a little more shallow, 50ft at the threshold and then my “final flare” at 10ft

[rustic charm]

I don’t know the MD-11 myself of course, but 160 knots for landing seems excessive. My average landing on the triple is around 150vref, 135-ish touchdown

[trail monolith]

Might be due to the back engine pushing the plane down at 135 so to have a bit better control the 160 knots is better

[runic hare]

Nothing wrong with that tbh I do that sometimes

[rustic charm]

If the flight is over 7 hours I’m most likely not even home for the whole cruise xD

[reef isle]

It's correct

It's a bit on the faster side, but normal for the MD-11

[reef isle]

The way I land in MSFS with the TFDi MF-11 is that at around 50ft I start to slowly move the throttle back together with lifting the nose up a bit, and sometimes I don't even fully retard it, I land it like a fighter jet, using throttle to control the descent rate

[hollow oracle]

I feel like the MD-11 is just going to naturally land harder than other aircraft too, so trending on the harder side isn’t the end of the world

[dusky leaf]

IXEG 733

[reef isle]

Fellow IXEG pilot ❤️

[dusky leaf]

Mostly a hangar queen for me - going to use it more

[trim harbor]

A/P off st 500

Wtf

I whip it off at 3-4k

[rustic charm]

For me depends on the mood xD

On the Air Florida delivery (that I had to cut short) I disengaged it at around 15k lol

Meanwhile other times I keep it on until minimums, or hell, even autoland

[hollow oracle]

idk, i let the ILS do its thing, if its tracking good, and bringing me down in a nice stable approach, i just let it go

[rustic charm]

Meanwhile, I’ve got a question. Is there a Tempelhof for MSFS that’s better than the freeware one from flightsim.to? It’s not bad, but I’m pretty sure that version depicts it as it was during some earlier years and not like the 70s, plus tbh, it’s not top notch either (which is absolutely fine, it’s freeware)

[hollow oracle]

oh yeah, the aerosoft CRJs are getting a massive update apparently

still no -200 though

[rustic charm]

Oh yeah the V2 is soon

[rustic charm]

Welp, know this isn’t exactly flight sim, but I’m in Sheremetyevo now about to be flying on a 747-400

[rustic charm]

I apologise for dirty windows on behalf of Sheremetyevo

[runic hare]

Fire

[dusky leaf]

Mountain inspection

[trim harbor]

YOU LUCKY

I WISH

[rustic charm]

Just landed in Sochi

Now guess what is it time for? The return trip! Yeah, I’m flying right back on the same plane xD

[hollow oracle]

Dc10 my beloved

Or md-80

[rustic charm]

Asked for a cockpit tour, got denied, rules are strict here and seems nobody is allowed in even on the ground

[full plank]

off in the 787, i'll let people guess where im going from & to

[rustic charm]

London to Perth or Perth to London

[full plank]

correct, QFA10

making use of the recently bought Perth scenery that i'll probably only use once

[hollow oracle]

not brave enough to fly this on the fedex VA yet, but im getting there

[reef isle]

Spent 1h reading about the navigation system (thanks ChatGPT and Deepseek for translating the manual lol), still haven't quite wrapped my head around it, but hopefully I should be able to do a VOR/RSBN correction along the way

still unsure how to program everything in

I'm sure it's not hard, it's just that the manual is written weirdly and/or has been translated in an awkward way

I'll just cheat and load everything from a flie like I've done in the past and skip the alignment process

this how I'm feeling atm 🥲

Although accidentally stumbling on this information has been amazing. Imagine going to your plane with PUNCH CARDS to input your route

Who needs route uplink

@rustic charm

[hollow oracle]

overran the runway in xplane again

i also floated for almost 10 seconds, again

that makes it like 4 times in 7 flights or something

[reef isle]

Genuine advice, try to land with a normal plane that lands at normal speeds and flares in a normal way

get used to Xplane first, then get used to the MD-11

[hollow oracle]

tried, no luck

[reef isle]

also, get rid of Autothrottle

[hollow oracle]

happens in the 732 and 737

[reef isle]

Want me to record a few landings with input visualisation?

landing in the 732 and 727?

[hollow oracle]

i dont even know if that would help at this point

[reef isle]

If you want just tell me

still preparing my Tu-144 flight, I can do it tomorrow as well

I'd be happy to help 😄

[reef isle]

Too much pull

better to land hard that than

Force yourself to NEVER correct nose down during the flare

because if you get to that point, your flare already went hugely wrong

[hollow oracle]

its like every time i land, i float exactly 3-4ft from the runway

[reef isle]

Pull less and land hard

it's better than that for reasons you've seen yourself 😄

[hollow oracle]

that would have broken the landing gear if i landed then

[reef isle]

Not at all

If it helps start to flare less and a bit earlier

It seems like you pulled A LOT at about 10ft

look at 0:06

between 0:04 and 0:05 you pulled a bit, arrested your descent rate, then you pulled again at around 0:06, and that was too much

if you didn't add that additional pull at 0:06 it would be have been a good landing

[hollow oracle]

no way, that would have been extremely hard if i just kept what i had at 04 and 05

[reef isle]

also looks like you weren't in idle? I hear engines spooling down at 0:09

[hollow oracle]

that was thrust reversers not working

[reef isle]

Not really

MD-11 almost always hand a bit harder anyway

because of the higher speed and other designs choices

MD-11 is infamous for its hard landings 😄

also better to land hard (at about 300/400fpm) than to overrun

also that little bounce at 0:15 tells me that you are still coming in with a bit too much energy, or you're trying too hard to keep the nose up

also, no spoilers?

that will degrade your braking heavily

[hollow oracle]

they were armed

[reef isle]

or is that just a replay thing

[hollow oracle]

i dont know, both are broken

i always arm them, but they never deploy

[reef isle]

it's a good habit to always deploy them manually

[hollow oracle]

either that or they reset after landing

[reef isle]

IRL in the 73 after landing they always physically touch (or at least watch) the handle to make sure it's deployed

They have a HUGE impact in landing distance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_1420

The A320 will deploy spoilers for you even if you didn't arm them 🙃

Do you have a button or axis you can assign to spoilers on your HOTAS/Controller?

[hollow oracle]

no, because xplanes control assigning system is beyond garbage

[reef isle]

Fair enough, I just have them onto an axis, that works well for me

[hollow oracle]

my right stick has no controls right now, but because its sprung xplane wont use it as a speedbrake

itll always bounce back to 50% applied

[reef isle]

I'm sure there must be a way to work around that

but yeah, the fact that it's sprung makes it sort of unsuitable

[hollow oracle]

the rotate md-11 doesnt even have a simple "toggle parking brake" option

theyre independent up/down contorls

[reef isle]

interesting

on most other planes it's apply brakes full (or max) force or something like that

[hollow oracle]

thats what i have set, and it does what it says, it toggles max brake but not the actual parking brake

changing my thrust reverser control to "hold thrust reverse at max" instead of toggle actually deploys the speedbrakes

[echo gorge]

Soviet aircraft cockpits truly are great aren't they

[hollow oracle]

i love how every single person i go to is like "yeah just use a sidestick or buy a yoke"

im really about done with this community and flight sims in general

ive about had it

saying you fly in xplane with an xbox controller is like treason of the highest order

[reef isle]

Flying in DCS with a controller has gotten suprisingly popular

I wouldn't be able to do it

but it's cool 😄

ngc, I'm done with the 144, can't find a way to assign pitch trim (and I've already lost too much time), I'll record a few landing, maybe they'll be useful

[hollow oracle]

not possible apparently, to be a real flight simmer you NEED a full cockpit, otherwise you are just a poser and suck at everything

[reef isle]

NoOne flies with a keyboard

he's a hero

I've no idea how that's even possible

[hollow oracle]

according to the xplane community, he's on a higher level than me, only dirty peasants use xbox controllers

[reef isle]

Eh... elitists are going to eli-tize?

don't let that get to you 😄

[hollow oracle]

this is like the third day in a row that ive gotten so angry/anxious that ive had to just get back in bed and give up

[reef isle]

It's a flight sim, it's a singleplayer (unless you fly on a network)

there's no reason to feel this bad about it

[hollow oracle]

but so far ive spent like $120 in this sim, only to have terrible landings, and i just dont understand why, i seriously try everything that everyone suggests to the best of my ability but it just doesnt seem to work

[reef isle]

A few weeks ago I had my first "hull loss" in months (maybe years?) of flying because I decided to stay at Vref during gusting conditions and a perfomance degrading gust killed me as I was about to flare

sometimes shit happens, we're not real pilots 🤷

I should have gone around, but it was late at night and was tired, so I had a really bad case of get-there-itis

[reef isle]

@hollow oracle did some base training, uploading the whole thing to YT

[reef isle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Cz6g66U28

Red = Pitch, Orange = Roll, Yellow =Rudder

[rustic charm]

And I just landed in Moscow

Honestly the 744 is such a lovely plane

Haven’t taken any pictures on the way back because didn’t have a window seat this time

[trim harbor]

how much did u pay roundtrip?

[rustic charm]

Around $170-180, don’t remember exactly

Also here comes the most interesting part of the day

They’re gonna deboard everyone via a bus

A full 747 worth of people

There go my hopes of catching the last airport shuttle train of the day that leaves in 15 minutes

[trim harbor]

did u fly moscow - sochi and back?

[rustic charm]

Yep

Same plane

Literally left the plane, went right back into the secure zone, ate dinner in a cafe and boarded back

Honestly $180 was an absolute steal

My brother bought a ticket for Pobeda (Aeroflot Group’s low cost airline) from Sochi to Moscow a bit later, one was, $200

[runic hare]

Yeah well fucking worth it

[rustic charm]

Absolutely

I’ll post some pics tomorrow, videos are probably gonna be too long for discord to handle

[echo gorge]

https://youtu.be/p2ai6JsCsIU?si=xwM6sKYIlx8R_MFh ugra's posted a bunch more videos of the Germany map

At least to me it's looking really nice

[dusky leaf]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1072974190778519594/1352444832517324981/Screenshot_2025-03-21_at_01.52.20.png?ex=67e0ace7&is=67df5b67&hm=bf25f08dfee342a04ed76253d715c818e3a4732d73b7c92dc47583489d89a5f1&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1106&height=642

[rustic charm]

That looks like a great plane

[trim harbor]

W

[rustic charm]

Obviously the pics are same-y, I didn’t walk around the plane much (I absolutely would if it wasn’t so full)

[trim harbor]

im jealous

w livery as well

[rustic charm]

I’d send the videos, but Discord being Discord makes it impossible

10mb upload limit…

Meanwhile a friend of mine was doing the exact same 2 flights at the exact same time in P3D, gave him an excuse to fly the 744 again cause he only does real flights real time

[full plank]

P3D my beloved

[trim harbor]

only real ones played p3d

[rustic charm]

Then it looks like I’m not real 😭

[full plank]

sorry you're going to the flight sim gulag

kinda half tempting tbh

just to tide me over with some flight sim that doesn't perform like complete ass

[trim harbor]

dont

[runic hare]

Nah it ain’t worth it

2 weeks to set up and if you install a livery wrong you get to do it all over again

[reef isle]

Yay! Fixed the trim on the 144 and got a bit of practice

I'll go back to learning the navigation system soon 🙃

[rustic charm]

Oh nooo

Now to be fair

I would allow myself to be sent to a flight sim gulag

Cause I’ve only ever played MSFS, nothing else. So I deserve it

Not even FSX or anything, just FS20

So yeah, absolutely deserved

[trim harbor]

time to get into bms

[hollow oracle]

biblically accurate lufthansa

its funny, in actual pilot training they tell you to try not to land for as long as possible, because then youll stall out and land smoothly eventually, but i find it the exact opposite for me

this next flight, im going to try and plant it right on the piano keys and im not going to go for a smooth landing, and just see what happens

[echo gorge]

It's different with airliners

You don't need to do navy landings, but what matters is getting it down on the marks, not having a smooth ride

[hollow oracle]

freight also doesnt complain, so theres that

[rustic charm]

Fact is trying to land smoothly might just result in you floating too far and having to go around

[hollow oracle]

I feel like, especially in the MD-11, trying to not land smoothly is going to give you a 2+ G landing

But then trying to land smoothly and your going to float for over 10 seconds

I’ve considered dumping even more money into this game by buying the ToLiss A321, because I’m very familiar with landing the A321 smoothly, and I feel like I could maybe use that as a point to jump in

I’m good with landing the 737 too, but ever since I had that data mismatch bug, I’m scared to pick it back up

[echo gorge]

Try the zibo

It's free and iirc has a really nice fm

And it'd be familiar for you

[trim harbor]

the

xplane fm is just entirely different to what you're used to

when flying msfs

it takes time to adjust yourself to the different properties of it

it's like relearning how to fly kinda

without the systems

totally normal and nothing to smash ur brain out against

[echo gorge]

Also, practicing a bit with ga can help a lot with transitioning imo

[trim harbor]

or just use the xplane tool by setting yourself 5/10nm infront of the runway

that works too

[rustic charm]

Really just gotta give yourself time to adjust and get the feel of it

[trim harbor]

correct

[reef isle]

Everything that has been said on the topic has been 100% correct IMO

[reef isle]

Regarding this, just wanted to add to what @echo gorge wrote, that's a good landing technique for GA Planes that's why she said "Not for Airliners" 😄

[rustic charm]

When it comes to airliners, overall the word “stall” is a bad thing xD

[runic hare]

the Fenix is very very similar in whats modeled systemwise to the toliss

the toliss has a few more fail modes but less graphical things

its well worth it if you don't already have a A321 but if you have the fenix then it might not be worth it

[hollow oracle]

The physics are an entirely different world between MSFS and xplane, it’s not even close

As witnessed with my landing problems

[runic hare]

yeah

I've said it before MSFS flys a lot more like a game

aerofly has the best physics that I've tried with XP a close second

P3D is a whole other kettle of worms

[hollow oracle]

After experiencing xplane I don’t know if I can go back to MSFS

[runic hare]

12.2 is coming out soon

but wait for a sale

its fucking extortionate

[hollow oracle]

I haven’t been entirely sold on 12, but when I buy aircraft I have been considering if it has both a 11 and 12 version included (minus the 732, but it was on sale)

[runic hare]

yeah

12 still has a lot of issues

but 12.2 looks like it might be very very good

JustSim is also coming back to XP

JF have been thinking about it as well

porting the BAe143 to 12

[hollow oracle]

I wish the A300ST was still available from inibuilds

[echo gorge]

That looks significantly better

[reef isle]

I can give it to you

not sure if it will work

Oh nvm, you need to activate it 🫤

[hollow oracle]

No, inibuilds deactivated the product activation servers for it when they sunsetted it

Same with the regular xplane A300s

[full plank]

love a curry on a saturday night

[hollow oracle]

It’s an intentional grey area, for better or worse

[reef isle]

I think even though I don't see anything wrong for sharing what is essentially abandonware I still think it's against the server rules so I'll send it to you via DM

it's the only iniBuilds product I have for Xplane

[hollow oracle]

I’ll give it a shot, I have the A300s in MSFS so I’m only really interested in the beluga

Wish it was the A330 beluga rather than the A300, but I also need to get back into flying the A300 anyway

One of the largest reasons I wanted to get 2024, they have that beluga XL with the whole freight mission stuff

[echo gorge]

mod hat Yeah, it's against server rules
no mod hat morally though

[hollow oracle]

It’s weird, deactivating the activation servers, pulling it from sale, and not supporting it and shifting focus entirely, it’s like ehhhhh

You can kind of piece together the picture

It’s kinda like, don’t ask don’t tell

[echo gorge]

There's a reason the x-plane (and ex x-plane) communities have a rather mixed view of inibuilds

[rustic charm]

Honestly stuff being pulled from sale is very, very annoying

When devs do that, what exactly do they expect?

Of course can’t say that it’s allowed, it’s not, but at the same time in such cases I can see people not caring

[echo gorge]

Obviously such responses are illegal, and against discord tos and server rules. At the same time I cannot and will not morally condemn such a response

[hollow oracle]

It kind of sucks, because if they released it for free, they’d kind of be getting the wrong audience as far as advertising goes

But it would be cool, offering it for free as a sort of sampler for the rest of their products

[rustic charm]

Well yeah, obviously it’s illegal and I personally even so wouldn’t do it because I consider it bad no matter the situation. But that doesn’t mean that devs pulling stuff from sale for no apparent reason isn’t a shitty way to do stuff cause it also is

[hollow oracle]

hm, for some reason im getting blank custom sceneries

i have it in the correct order im pretty sure

no, it wasnt, for some reason autoortho auto put the EU data right at the top of the list

this is the first time my PC has actually massively struggled with xplane

though, i didnt get the "performance optimized" version of EGNR, so who knows

[hollow oracle]

oh yeah, performance is like 2x better

i had to fix that weird distorted cockpit camera bug too, that took some troubleshooting

some aircraft look fine at 480, some look fine at 400, i have no idea why

[runic hare]

This is something I like, a lot of old abandonware XP stuff has just been uploaded on the forums for free

Think Felis 154, some Thranda stuff, X-Hanger stuff

Quite cool because there isn’t a reason for them to keep it all hidden

Oh btw @hollow oracle you should try out the L410

Very fun thing to fly

[full plank]

hope no doors will fall off

haven't flown the iFly MAX in ages, but enjoyed it loads in P3D

[rustic charm]

Oh, the Felis 154 was posted for free?

That is nice

Honestly I wish devs everywhere used such approach

Something is old and you don’t wanna sell it anymore? Just post it somewhere for free on a no-support basis

Look Armstrong Powerhouse, that’s what you need to do with all the sound packs

[runic hare]

Yeah he did this with everything he’s ever made

The 742 is gonna be freeware eventually

[rustic charm]

Ah, makes sense

Now I regret not getting xplane on the sale…

[runic hare]

IL14, Yak50, AN24 were all about 20-40USD on release

All freeware now

I really should fly the AN24

[rustic charm]

Good plane ngl

Still in commercial operation too

[runic hare]

Yep

[trim harbor]

Thranda?

Dont they exist anymore?

[runic hare]

Yeah they disbanded as a studio

You can still buy there stuff tho

[runic hare]

Oh that’s fucking sick

I’m on 9H-VUC today

One of these

Already have a slot but we move

[hollow oracle]

uh

levelup 737ng

huh, its a livery-specific issue

this is also apparently the fix for the custom cabin textures not showing

https://forum.thresholdx.net/files/file/1426-9eng-delta-10-pack/

for that livery

[reef isle]

JETSGO!! Finally flew the MD-80 again after what feels like centuries

such a fun airline and callsign as well

The Flight Model is just so good

[runic hare]

Really uncanny valley vibes for me flying on this

[hollow oracle]

im curious, just jumpseating or actually working?

[hollow oracle]

delter

[hollow oracle]

wtf, im getting a cabin altitude warning, off sched descent, and my cabin altitude skyrocket to almost 20,000ft

at least my instruments seem to be linked up properly this run

its funny, i was literally watching mayday (as i do when flying) and it took me a second to realize the horn was coming from in-sim instead of the video

[hollow oracle]

1.65G/-339fpm :/

i planted it on the piano keys though

and exited the runway with like 3 exits remaining

it is kinda funny though, the in-game landing rate showed that it was 1.05G, but still a hard lanjding

the speedbrakes popped out and then didnt come back out because i tried hitting thrust reversers (which also extends speedbrake) with my throttles not fully idled

i was a little bit more nose-down than i wanted to be, but i didn't gain any significant airspeed that would have effected my landing (on touchdown i was around 141, with a Vref of 139)

i think the big improvements i need to make are cutting the throttles a little bit later and completely, but outside of that i think i did good

[rustic charm]

Ngl I wanna get the maddog too

And tbh since I’m in Russia and wouldn’t have to pay VAT, it ends up at €100 instead of around €120

But €100 is still a bit steep

(I’m looking at the base + expansion right away, what’s the point of having just the MD-82)

[hollow oracle]

I kinda want to mess around with the xplane default one before I get into the MSFS one tbh

I still have the captainsim 717 to play around with too, eventually

The 717 systems should be very, very close to the MD-11 too, so hopefully it’s a good transition

[echo gorge]

The msfs one is genuinely incredible

The price is very steep though

[rustic charm]

Yeah

The only reason why I’m debating it is the price

Though I guess I’m still lucky not having to pay the tax

But even €100 is quite steep

It does seem incredible though

[tired pond]

You missed the sale 😦

[rustic charm]

Yep, I did

Honestly didn’t even know it was going on

[reef isle]

Nah don't

The differences between all of them are minuscule

The only variant that was actually different (the MD-87) isn't included

difference between the MD-82, 88 and 83 is just a tiny difference in engine thrust and different fuel systems (I think one of them can have more fuel)

it's about the same as between the A320-100 and -200

[rustic charm]

Ah, fair

I thought they were different lengths

[reef isle]

Nope 😄

As I said

The MD-87 is a bit shorter

and that's not in there

[rustic charm]

Yeah

[reef isle]

cockpit is also exactly the same

[rustic charm]

Tbh I wish the devs didn’t stop at just that

Like, they could’ve continued onto the MD-87 after all

[reef isle]

If we lived in a different world maybe they would have offered the MD-82 with the steam gauge cockpit and then sell the MD-83/88 extension with the EFIS cockpit

[rustic charm]

And plus, it would be easier for them to do a DC-9 than for anyone else

[reef isle]

but of course they haven't done the steam gauge MD-82 cockpit, so 🤷

[rustic charm]

Yep, unfortunately

[green egret]

HA

[hollow oracle]

lmao

[woeful elbow]

lmao

anyone know whats going with london control on vatsim

[hollow oracle]

why

[woeful elbow]

LMFAO