Flight Sims (MSFS, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, FS98...)

[hollow oracle]

as far as i can tell, 2001 when it opened

apparently the actual default airport is even worse

[rustic charm]

Defaults don't have changes even prior to 2020 tbf

LTFM had its opening ceremony in 2018, opened for all passenger flights in 2019. In MSFS it doesn't exist whatsoever

(Which is a real issue considering it's one of the most important world hubs)

[hollow oracle]

now i have to make the choice - pacsim or la aero incheon

the pacsim one is literally 11GB for an airport, which is a massive downside for me

[trim harbor]

my god

finally

[alpine coral]

Climbing through Helene
Obscured from the surface to about FL280

[hollow oracle]

peach my beloved

[hollow oracle]

are you fucking kidding me, it happened again

there has to be something wrong with the way the A32NX draws paths, im on the latest testing version

this is the second time this has happened, the same thing happened approaching frankfurt too

it looks normal from the MCDU, i have no clue

that arrow next to GC071 was also there on my approach into frankfurt, and im curious if that has anything to do with it

i got rid of GC071 and GC072 and that seems to have fixed it

added them back in manually, same thing happens

its not the speed or anything thats fucking up the path either, it literally stays that way no matter the speed or projected speed, the plane hits it, follows as much as it can, and then once it reaches the end of the path it dies and goes to heading mode

for a second after i remove GC071 and GC072, the approach path gets all fucked up in the same way too, but fixes itself after a few seconds

those two waypoints are on the approach path im supposed to take, so i have no idea, no noted speed restrictions either, just waypoints in

it was the speed

i was going too fast

at 250kts the path is drawn correctly

[alpine coral]

The more you know

[hollow oracle]

my confidence has been restored

some takeoff pics this time too

[untold finch]

It's worth it though, the detail is great

[shadow burrow]

Are you serious?

The XP11 default one looks better and that has the correct taxiways

And runways

[rustic charm]

A lot of MSFS default airports are not anywhere near the real ones

Dublin is missing a runway, Newark is missing a terminal, Istanbul International is missing everything

This was my taxi out from Newark yesterday for example, in-game I was on a taxiway all correctly. Volanta, which has ab up-to-date image, shows I went right through a terminal

[shadow burrow]

Should be mandatory to have a scenery gateway

https://gateway.x-plane.com/

I think at least 90% of global airports are modelled here

Anyone can contribute

Make what you want

[mild zenith]

Volanta is dead

[trim harbor]

reinstalling everything for msfs takes ages

goddamn

[rustic charm]

Of course it does

For me usually the download speeds in MSFS are also noticeably worse than on Steam

[rustic charm]

Lovely day to be flying. Except I'm already descending.

[trim harbor]

z

[mild zenith]

What cloud settings are you on? High?

[rustic charm]

Welp, landed good enough

Not the best, not the worst

[mild zenith]

That was what, 20 mins?

[rustic charm]

Block time 32 minutes, flight time 22 minutes

[mild zenith]

Does Alaska do that flight irl

[rustic charm]

Yeah

Juneau - Sitka is part of the scheduled Flight 62

[trim harbor]

ultra\

i believe

[rustic charm]

Plus Sitka - Juneau is part of Flight 67

[hollow oracle]

i really want to do the milk run, but im not sure exactly how you can load multiple flight plans in one session

[rustic charm]

I break them up usually

[mild zenith]

Nice I like short flights

[rustic charm]

I did once do a half-run all back to back, Anchorage - Cordova - Yakutat - Juneau

Juneau - Sitka isn't even the shortest I think

Wrangell - Petersburg is in reality shorter. Well, sometimes I think

I've flown that one 3 times with the quickest being 34 minutes block time, 25 minutes flight time. But I do that flight with the LDA approach, which covers a fair bit of additional distance compared to the RNAV. So basically, you can get that one to have flight time below 20 minutes if you try.

[trim harbor]

https://fselite.net/content/rex-releases-atmos-for-msfs/

anyone got this?

bruh $15 is a steal

sign me up

[hollow oracle]

ngc is flying the fenix

im really pissed at myself that the only reason i was having a bad experience is because i was like 10 versions out of date

i still have occasional issues, but its far better than it was

its a shame the peach livery pack isnt in the official fenix launcher, because theyre absolutely incredible

also, peach A320s were featured in an episode of an anime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8yFE72P6qE

putting the :3 in A:320

[trim harbor]

toobad theyre really terrible irl

[hollow oracle]

peach? ive heard its kind of like the spirit airlines of japan

[trim harbor]

yes

[hollow oracle]

low-cost carriers always attract the worst people because its the cheapest option

[trim harbor]

its not even that

it's just compared to ANA and JAL

which are imho well priced

it's bad

[hollow oracle]

idk, i feel like low cost carriers get an overly harsh reputation

sure, they attract a lot worse people because of how cheap they are, but i feel like 99 out of 100 flights are going to go without anybody crazy

that 1 incident of some customer being annoying gets blown out of proportion

[hollow oracle]

though, on every other airline, that rate is more like 499 out of 500 flights will ahve a crazy person

[trim harbor]

comfort

is a big thing

atleast to me

[shadow burrow]

Price outside of Europe is usually about 30-70usd on average

In Europe it can be like 100-200usd

More people complain about low cost airlines outside of Europe because there is less incentive to take them

There is also less benefit from the reduced comfort and whatever else

[trim harbor]

i pay 180eur return for40 min flight lol

its so retarded

[hollow oracle]

personally, i use airlines as purely A-B transportation

if they can get me there safely, ill fly with them, comfort is second to me

im a big bodied individual, and spirit wasnt too uncomfortable

the airbus seats are laughably small though, regardless of airline, the standard airbus seating is like cardboard its so thin

[shadow burrow]

Depends on carrier

Seats aren’t fitted by the manufacturer

Or well they are but with what the airline has chosen

Thompson, Safran

Whoever else makes the seats

[hollow oracle]

regardless of whoever makes them, this seems to be the standard in terms of economy seating

like, even united isnt much better

[trim harbor]

it depends

on anything above 3 hours

im willing to pay the comfort

i will never in my life endure lufthansa for 15 hours again

terrible airline

[hollow oracle]

i mean, if your going on a flight for longer than 3 hours i would pay for comfort, but anything under 3, economy is just fine

like, i cant even imagine flying across the atlantic in economy, i would rather take a kayak across

im an extremely nervous flyer, and i cant even imagine being cramped into a tiny seat for a 7 hour flight with the turbulence and shit

its so strange, i have like 40 completed flights in MSFS in both airbus and boeing a/c, but im still terrified of flying

[trim harbor]

REX ATMOS

atmos is great

[hollow oracle]

my PC hurts just loading those screenshots

every time i fly the fenix a320 and get a successful flight, i fight the feeling to get the A321/A319

i want to do american airlines flights with them so fucking bad

every morning i get an american A319 flying over my house on its way to philly

[rustic charm]

Honestly I am surprised how I consider it ‘just fine’ on the long flights

Like, 3 hours is long for some people

Meanwhile I take 10-hour flights in economy just fine

My average flight time in MSFS is 1 hour 10 minutes per flight, while irl my average flight time is probably over 5 hours

And I’m certain Aeroflot’s economy is definitely not the best economy you’ll see

At least they have good service I guess

[woeful elbow]

Bro

Vatsim between LOWI - EGKK

is rammed of kids

no idea why

[shadow burrow]

https://blog.vatsim.net/vatsim-updates-the-code-of-conduct-effective-october-1-2024/

[shadow burrow]

more banned kids soon i hope

[woeful elbow]

yes

[woeful elbow]

dk if its true but theres a pilot rating now for LOWI

[shadow burrow]

nah

[woeful elbow]

Well I've told my little brother it was

lol

[shadow burrow]

lmao

if u dont know the proc then its a ban

[woeful elbow]

He does for atc wise

Not the flying bit

[trim harbor]

man atmos is great

it needs a few QOL updates though

[woeful elbow]

@shadow burrowOnly downside with flying with my brother is hes only just turned the correct age.

[woeful elbow]

Oh god

I think we're gonna have to declare a mayday on vatsim

[dusky leaf]

https://il2-korea.com/news/dd_11

The vid is worth watching

[shadow burrow]

I do this if I can’t be arsed to do a full flight

Msg the controller asking if they are ok doing emergency proc

If they aren’t busy then usually they are

Set up a failure

Cabin depress or engine fail

If they aren’t then I just close the game

@trim harbor if we can find time I might be able to get 3 of us together to do a felis 742 flight

[trim harbor]

that would be cool as shit

i gotta relearn the 742 though

[shadow burrow]

Full Checklists

ATC

INS

[trim harbor]

CIVA or LTN?

[shadow burrow]

CIVA

[trim harbor]

or VOR to VOR

oh brother that would be hilarious

[shadow burrow]

That fucking would be

Guy I know wants to do it for CTP

[trim harbor]

holy shit he has balls

[shadow burrow]

Shared flight INS 742

[trim harbor]

whens ctp

[shadow burrow]

I think weekend of the 18th

[trim harbor]

i could participate

as a 3rd man

that's a friday innit

[shadow burrow]

That’s when the toliss339 releases and they usually do there releases around CTP

I think it should be the Saturday

[trim harbor]

oh

ye i can join in

[shadow burrow]

We will have to see

I might be working but ill try get the time off

[trim harbor]

what can i use 12

or do i have to install 11

[shadow burrow]

Yeh

Or 11

It doesn’t matter really

[trim harbor]

oh good

[woeful elbow]

Controller was fine with me doing it, and legit held all aircraft on ground into gatwick

[shadow burrow]

Yeah they do that because they follow standard proc

[woeful elbow]

I didnt even msg them, i messaged brussles control, they said they'd ask london

and then from there we was asked if it was a mayday, so i said to my brother sure why not ,

[shadow burrow]

I had random fails on the toliss 321 once doing a very busy London - Frankfurt route

Hit a multiple fail mode hydraulics problem

[woeful elbow]

lol

[shadow burrow]

Lost an engine and Yellow hydraulics

[woeful elbow]

meh, only reason i declared this one was, we forgot to actually re-fuel.

[shadow burrow]

Didn’t message the controller just declared an emergency and he held up about 20-30 planes on Frankfurt approach

[woeful elbow]

there was 45 on ground today when I did it.

[shadow burrow]

Got me on for a visual

[woeful elbow]

I had told my brother, plan for an engine to shut down and it did it like 3 miles from final.

[shadow burrow]

Added him on discord and donated 20 eur to his stream

Fun flight

[woeful elbow]

lmao

[shadow burrow]

He always gives me priority on approach to Frankfurt now

I paid for it

[woeful elbow]

thats kinda unfair but meh

[shadow burrow]

Will set me up nicely

[shadow burrow]

I mean I don’t ask for it

I did it think Atlanta - Frankfurt recently, came in from the north and he was online gave me 2 vectors and added me to the track at about 20 miles

[woeful elbow]

lol

nah mans paying to land

💀

[shadow burrow]

So it’s not really priority but he gives me less fucky vectors

I might to some London flying tmrw

Feeling like some 146 action

[woeful elbow]

oh god

[trim harbor]

virginity status reacquired

[rustic charm]

You missed a day!

[shadow burrow]

Max I’ve done is 59

Like 2 sectors every day at least

Longest streak is 108

[trim harbor]

that isnt me though (thank god lol)

[shadow burrow]

Jesus weapt

I do too many long hauls for that to be viable

[trim harbor]

all out of LHR too

[rustic charm]

Max I've done is 15 and longest streak is 6

[mild zenith]

Can I add you on Volanta

[trim harbor]

sure ofc

same name as on discord

[reef isle]

@shadow burrow thanks, reading all that somehow gave me confidence to fly the 134 out of BER

it's really busy now for some reason lol

[trim harbor]

lol

thats crazy

[shadow burrow]

get a life

[hollow oracle]

how the fuck do you fly 200 flights in a month

i do about one a day (and im home about 3-4 days a week), and i just broke 11

[shadow burrow]

I have zero fucking clue how they did that

I do maybe 2-3 a day then get bored and stop for a couple days

[alpine coral]

[hollow oracle]

the headwind A330-900 is good for freeware, but it feels realy kind of janky

same with the horizon sim/LVFR modded stuff

[trim harbor]

fr

i do 2-3 short ones a day if i have the time

[rustic charm]

I can do several short ones a day too sometimes, especially if I have a fair bit of free time

A return trip like Anchorage - Kodiak - Anchorage, or a few back to back flights like I once did Anchorage - Cordova - Yakutat - Juneau

Also really sometimes flights don’t take up that much time

You can fit Wrangell - Petersburg into a 25-minute block time if you can start up the plane and push back quickly enough

[shadow burrow]

Good luck getting support with them

If you ever need it

[hollow oracle]

that too

no discord afaik

and the FBW discord is unhelpful with any product but theirs

[hollow oracle]

i couldnt get the EFB to work in the fenix, and then my controllers wouldnt connect, so im taking that as a sign to not fly tonight

my opinion may have changed on the fenix, but that doesnt stop it being an ornery beast to get working

[trim harbor]

Which makes sense

[hollow oracle]

I mean, in channels other than the A32NX support stuff

I asked in the “flight-school” channel (supposed to be for general flight sim help) about how the go around path works in the fenix, and everyone was like “erm that’s not the FBW dumbass we don’t offer support for the fenix ”

Like yes, I asked in the FBW discord server specifically and in the general flight help channel because that community is going to be very knowledgeable on the airbus 320 systems and I was hoping people would be helpful rather than having the server be 100% only FBW products and nothing else

Obviously I didn’t post in the A32NX channels asking for help on the fenix

[shadow burrow]

It’s an Airbus

They are basically all the same

[hollow oracle]

Yes! And I literally asked in a community that primarily focuses on airbusses!!

In the appropriate channel!!! Not even a channel related to the A32NX, the generic flight help channel

[shadow burrow]

Doesn’t matter

If you have a question on an Airbus system

Ask about Airbus systems not a fenix one

[hollow oracle]

I mean, I didn’t even mention that it was the fenix, they were like “the FBW doesn’t simulate that yet”

[shadow burrow]

Then you have your answer

[hollow oracle]

Yes, but it’s an airbus system that I was asking a question about

[shadow burrow]

I mean just ask in the fenix server lmao

[hollow oracle]

The fenix server is even worse when it comes to that

Everyone is in a constant pissing match to be better than everyone else, so all you get are sarcastic quips and snarky comments

[shadow burrow]

If I pop in the Captain Sim discord and ask about the fail modes in the FF 767 in a generic help channel is anyone gonna help me?

[hollow oracle]

I mean, yeah, because they’re both 767s, and your asking a question about a 767 to a community who knows a lot about the 767, in the channel that is not related to that particular devs 767 product and just about general flight simulation questions

Obviously it is different because in that case it would be a competing payware product for both

The FBW is free and open source, so there’s no competition when it comes to the fenix

[rustic charm]

What’s the point if both are rather bad anyway?

Or at least so I’ve heard

[reef isle]

I mean, there's a Fenix server, it's expected that in a certain discord server people are going to want to help with that specific product and only that, especially if there is a dedicated community for another thing.

Asking about the Fenix in the FBW discord wouldn't be the same as asking about the Headwind on the FBW discord, or me asking things about the L-1011 on the TFDi server.

People on the Fenix server are in a better position to answer your Fenix questions.

If for your question it doesn't matter if it's FBW or Fenix, just don't mention it 🤷‍♂️

For the same reason why you felt it was important to mention that it was about the Fenix and not the FBW, makes the Fenix discord the best place to ask

[rustic charm]

L-1011 mentioned, I’m sad

(Can we have one made by a great dev like JF please please)

I genuinely hope that’ll happen at some point

[shadow burrow]

FF is fantastic idk what u heard

[rustic charm]

Maybe I thought of a different one tbh

[reef isle]

I think the whole cockpit looks off

with the FF stuff

the yoke is comically tiny, and the whole cockpit dimensions and things just don't feel right

https://www.x-plained.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/3.jpeg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Boeing_757-300_Cockpit.JPG

why is the yoke so tiny 😭

I don't know, the whole thing looks like some sort of cursed image that wants to make you feel uneasy

[rustic charm]

JF have shared another update on the fokker, don't think it was mentioned here yet (it's a small one but nice one)

Focusing on the improved exterior to be fit for MSFS2024 (due to the walkarounds etc) with a lot of screenshots

Was 3 days ago

Also 5 days ago they shared an update on the A300, a bigger one, haven't read it yet

[reef isle]

I've stopped following those closely for a while

from what I've seen it's looking like RJ hopefully before chirstmas and Fokkers Q1/2 2025

[rustic charm]

Second (well in reality third) leg onto Petersburg

The cruise level is FL080

[rustic charm]

Landing there soon

[rustic charm]

And about to be in Juneau

And that's a wrap for today, with a total of 3 flights

With a total distance of 409nm, a total block time of 1:50 and a total flight time of 1:20

[trim harbor]

@shadow burrow

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xplane/s/Zkehe8QeDJ

[woeful elbow]

oh god, brother wants to do a flight ive said yes stupidly

[trim harbor]

https://fselite.net/content/microsoft-releases-aircraft-avionics-update-3/

[untold finch]

Not sure why you'd bother with the default PC-6 when the Blackbird one exists

That thing was a blast to land at Lukla

[shadow burrow]

My job is cool

[hollow oracle]

boing

its called boing because thats the noise they make when they hit the ground

[shadow burrow]

Not today they didn’t

Operational incident at Bergamo

Don’t use antiskid with full manual braking kids

[hollow oracle]

ryanair moment

[trim harbor]

r u able to jumpseat oftren

[shadow burrow]

Nah the captain needed a piss

Need 2 people in the FD at all times

He took like 20 min as well 😂😂😂

[trim harbor]

bruh thats funny

do u have any seniority in ryanair to be able to do this

or is it selected at random?

[hollow oracle]

isnt it just whatever crew member is available?

[trim harbor]

https://fselite.net/content/flybywire-shares-new-a380x-developer-update-in-new-podcast/

man

SO EXCITED

[shadow burrow]

Yes

But the most senior in the cabin can’t do it

They need to be watching at all times

[trim harbor]

i wonder if the 380 in MSFS will have BTV

[shadow burrow]

But if multiple are qualified then it’s just whoever wants to go

[trim harbor]

i imagine everyone wants to go

nvm it does have BTV W

sickkk

[hollow oracle]

GIVE ME THE FLYING HONU, NOW!!!!!

[hollow oracle]

how do the displays work irl with the little cursor thing? like, when you put your mouse over the display the little yellow cursor follows it, but how does that work on the real displays?

does it sense your finger hovering above the display? or does it only teleport to where you tapped the display

the 787 and 777 have displays like that too

[shadow burrow]

Nope, usually it’s seen as a bit of a chore especially if you have just finished service

[shadow burrow]

There is a ball mouse

Big grabby things

[trim harbor]

bruh i'd always do it im gonna be real

[shadow burrow]

I only did it once

Two toilet brakes

[trim harbor]

do u just sit in the cockpit and watch out the window?

[shadow burrow]

Nah chat to whoever is there

Fo or cpt

[trim harbor]

man sounds like fun tbh

[shadow burrow]

They usually do ACARS only

[trim harbor]

for radio comms?

[shadow burrow]

Ye

[trim harbor]

makes sense

[shadow burrow]

The radio was on so the only people I heard were checkins and aircraft asking for non standard stuff

We had a few stuck in bergamo

This was just over Wien Radar

[trim harbor]

next time ur in leipzig or berlin lmk

i'll try to come out and get camera set up

[shadow burrow]

The 9th

[trim harbor]

oh fuck

wait what time is that in CEST

mfw wednesday

[shadow burrow]

That’s Zulu so +2 for CEST

[trim harbor]

14.20 then, right?

[shadow burrow]

Yes

[trim harbor]

goddamn it's a wednesday ill be in uni

painnnnn

[shadow burrow]

Idk about anything else

It’s at max scheduled 4 weeks ahead

[trim harbor]

F

thats a long work day as well

goddamn

[hollow oracle]

DFW-LAX

[hollow oracle]

https://youtu.be/G0OJxUsSwnk?si=aVydvj-miF2pRxpD

this is so cursed

plane ditchlights

[hollow oracle]

[hollow oracle]

the beluga we're getting in MSFS24 is the a330 one, right?

[trim harbor]

Im p sure yes

@hollow oracle

You can have your old retro callsigns now

[hollow oracle]

someones already on it

If I wake up early enough before class tomorrow I’ll do some more US airways flights

[rustic charm]

BeyondATC seems to be on a rather constant improvement

Wish I could use it, especially that I bought it after all

[dusky leaf]

Captain looking for a new job? 😬

[trim harbor]

it indeed is

[woeful elbow]

Im gonna end up regretting teaching lil bro how to fly pmdg 777

[shadow burrow]

I think at McDonald’s yeah

[rustic charm]

Are you even supposed to use full manual braking like, ever?

Well apart from situations like emergency landings and rejected takeoffs

[untold finch]

so yes then 😉

[rustic charm]

But I always thought on regular landings you shouldn't use full braking, and most of the time just let autobrake do the job

[woeful elbow]

I only use manual breaking if I have to or If I am unsure of what gate i get

but thats rare

[rustic charm]

I mean, when I fly I only use manual when I can see that autobrake ain't gonna stop in time

[woeful elbow]

And if Im flying shared with my lil brother

9/10 Ill only use the manual after below 70/60

[untold finch]

I use manual brake all the time honestly

I paid for the pedals, i may as well use them

[rustic charm]

Tbh using manual isn't even an issue but why use full braking? Gotta do it gently after all, to avoid melted brakes

[woeful elbow]

fe

[shadow burrow]

Nah it’s in standard proc and kinda mandatory for some airports

It’s just in the manual with a big red sign saying NO ANTISKID

[rustic charm]

Well tbh understandable if there's a short runway

[shadow burrow]

Underlined and circled as well

[rustic charm]

You'd think it would be noticed

[untold finch]

it'd probably lock the tyres up more than anything else

you'd just slide down the runway in a cloud of smoke

[rustic charm]

Ah, understandable

[woeful elbow]

Oh god, trying to teach my bro to fly 777 for a vatsim flight, and hes just asked, if to use flaps 40 💀

[rustic charm]

"Use em if you find em"

[woeful elbow]

just said, ya can try

uhhh

💀

BRUH

[hollow oracle]

nevermind, doesnt work

[rustic charm]

The message says: there will be a review process for anything submitted. Maybe it was just not yet approved

[hollow oracle]

so true

[trim harbor]

please release

[hollow oracle]

i love how volanta automatically uses the fucked up museum fuselage of N106US

[reef isle]

there a couple that are like this

I-TIGI as well for example

some time ago me and a friend of mine tried a couple of regs that were involved in hull losses and a few them had images like that. Volanta takes the latest image available in Planespotters

[mild zenith]

You can change the picture if it bothers you

[untold finch]

Yeah, I always deleted the real world images

It's a flight sim tool, the flight sim is pretty, thus I want to see a flight sim picture

[shadow burrow]

update your airac day

[reef isle]

this was another funny one I randomly found

[hollow oracle]

Yep, I always replace it with a screenshot after I finish the flight

[mild zenith]

Can I add you on Volanta

[hollow oracle]

sure, my un is just ngc427

[shadow burrow]

one was pilot error and not a tire burst

[hollow oracle]

oh boy airac udpate time

[hollow oracle]

(hopefully) my 40th flight

[shadow burrow]

haha

[hollow oracle]

yeah, cause youve been playing flight sims for years, i only started in february

how do you change to meter altitude in the 777?

its my first time flying over china and i forog they use meters

[shadow burrow]

should be next to the baro

[hollow oracle]

ty

if only there was a standard the rest of the world uses

[trim harbor]

:(

[hollow oracle]

so altitudes in china are kind of technically both meters and feet??

because the navigraph charts show altitudes in feet

simbrief shows altitudes in meters

im guessing FL0660 is 6600M and not 66000ft

[rustic charm]

Yeah, most likely not 66k ft

[hollow oracle]

and 66000M is something like 213000ft

[trim harbor]

yes

flyng in china is awful to be quite frank

it's even worse on vatsim

airforceproud95 made a good video about it

[hollow oracle]

its weird though, because simbrief says that i descend to FL0660 properly once i hit chinese airspace, but the altitudes listed for each waypoint on the MCDU is even higher at FL380

[trim harbor]

wym

[rustic charm]

Honestly, for me metres usually just completely throw me off

[trim harbor]

u gotta manually change it

[hollow oracle]

its not fun, as somebody doing their first flight over china in an a/c type im not completely familar with

[trim harbor]

u also gotta translate FL to M

pilots irl use a handy chart

[rustic charm]

Well the plane can convert the altitude for you

But you still have to set it as ft in the MCP

[rustic charm]

Which is not too fun

[trim harbor]

wait thjat isnt the one i meant

mb

[hollow oracle]

a lot of quick maths required

[trim harbor]

@hollow oracle

[hollow oracle]

[trim harbor]

i hope this helps you

[rustic charm]

I can only assume the values are inexact too.

[trim harbor]

p sure just rounded

[hollow oracle]

this actually helped a lot, i was so confused as to what it meant by different altitudes at different headings, its just different altitudes for inbound/outbound essentially

[trim harbor]

thats a normal thing

even in US/EU airspace

[hollow oracle]

huh, the first time ive heard of it is with china

[trim harbor]

west is even, east is uneven

the major issue with chinas' airspace (minus the usage of meters) is that they're VERY strictly enforced

theres only like

3 airways that civilian planes can use

because the airspace is owned by the air force

[rustic charm]

I remember my first landing in Sochi. That was the first flight in Russia that I've done using charts and all. "MAX IAS 350km/h" whaaaat how am I supposed to do that (I think I broke rules on that approach)

[hollow oracle]

theres an HAI video about it

[trim harbor]

ye

[rustic charm]

It's basically that to have safe FL separation and stuff, it will be that aircraft flying generally in an easterly direction will get (I think) uneven FLs (so FL170, FL190, FL310) while aircraft flying in a general westerly direction will get even FLs (FL180, FL200, FL300). I might've mixed them up, but it's either that or the other way around

[hollow oracle]

that makes sense

[trim harbor]

that is correct

[rustic charm]

Welp, then I remember it correctly 😁

[trim harbor]

though, that is too variabel

[rustic charm]

(Or well, can apply knowledge correctly, cause I'm doing KBOS to KEWR right now which is westerly, and I got an even FL)

[trim harbor]

i've always gotten different ALTs on NAT tracks

[rustic charm]

Of course, there are always exceptions and stuff

[trim harbor]

from 340 to 350 and then 370 after leaving or something like that

[rustic charm]

But as a broad general rule, it's more or less like that

You can't separate aircraft like that always, so at some points there will be changes

[trim harbor]

just like 250 below 10k ft

[rustic charm]

And you can't exactly enforce it when you're in metres. Makes it much less easy, cause instead of changing with the thousand, you have like what, 400-metre steps or something

[rustic charm]

Exactly. Usually, it applies. But sometimes, it doesn't.

[trim harbor]

they use this

[rustic charm]

Yeah, still safe separation of course, but not with very simple increments

Honestly overall metres are much less simple, cause planes aren't designed for them

[trim harbor]

well not anymore atleast

[rustic charm]

Well yeah

Modern 'western' aircraft

It is possible that the new Chinese ones will be designed for metres? Quite possible considering they use metres in their airspace

But I honestly have no idea about it so won't claim any facts

[hollow oracle]

its mostly unsatisfiying never having a clean altitude when in china

5100m for the first few waypoints of this approach, doing actually 5090m and 16700ft

[rustic charm]

About to do the Newark's Stadium Visual

[green egret]

best aircraft ive purchased so far

[reef isle]

Yeah, but it's what they expect

[rustic charm]

Well yeah it’s understandable

[reef isle]

I think if you actually fly in meters and stay at the correct exact altitude in meters you're "wrong"

they expect those FLs

I had an idea to fly in china with some russian airliners for that very reason, but I'd still need to use the altimeters in ft and use those FLs

[shadow burrow]

volanta dead again?

[dusky leaf]

Green melted cheese simulator

[trim harbor]

interesting routing to say the least

[hollow oracle]

ive been having horrible luck with flights again today

tried doing a flight out of charlotte, takeoff didnt go as well as i wanted to so i abandoned it, and now volanta didnt track this flight, so i have to abandon this one too

[trim harbor]

restart volanta

if it doesnt track

its a known issue

that it just randomly stops

[hollow oracle]

it just didnt start tracking at all, grey dot at the top left

[trim harbor]

r u using fsupic to connect

or the plugin

[hollow oracle]

the plugin

[trim harbor]

dont think u can restart that one

[hollow oracle]

i just think it didnt detect MSFS when it launched

[hollow oracle]

jesus the horizon 787 really likes to jump off of the ground

i was scared of almost tailstriking it with how suddenly it jumped up

fighting 15kts of crosswind didnt help either

[topaz geyser]

Jeez, it's been 5 freaking months since I flown.

[topaz geyser]

Trying to avoid headwinds, from what it looks like.

[echo gorge]

Caranado?

[topaz geyser]

Thranda.

U206G

[echo gorge]

Ah good, was worried for a sec

[topaz geyser]

I have technically Carenado's T210, but it's updated/maintained by SimCoders.

[echo gorge]

Yeah the reps do a lot

[topaz geyser]

And bar few unsolvable non-flight-breaking glitches, it's one of my favorite planes.

[echo gorge]

I was also quite partial to the c152 community project back when I flew x-plane, but that was barely a carenado plane at that point lol

[topaz geyser]

It's funny how Carenado abandoned XP12, and for the community it means, "all 3rd parties abandoned XP12." So that's what you people are flying, huh...

[hollow oracle]

i redeemed myself with the 787-900

i went from a -800fpm crash landing, toa -176fpm one

[echo gorge]

Not quite sure what you're saying, sorry

[topaz geyser]

#off-topic message Point 3.

[echo gorge]

Oh, OK I suppose

[topaz geyser]

@echo gorge X-Plane haters love to say that "all the 3rd parties quit X-Plane." The only one that really was somewhat big on XP and did quit is Carenado.

[echo gorge]

Not much of a loss tbh

They get some credit for initially developing for xp before a lot of other devs, but were ridiculously outclassed in later years

[topaz geyser]

Well... Carenado made a good base for many custom developments. REPs, ASDG, that C152...

But yeah. All the big X-Plane names are alive and kicking.

Didn't the FFB777v2 just come out?..

Anyway, like I said in that writeup, I'm sticking with X-Plane 12 for the forceeable future.

The only thing that would make me start maintaining a second sim is the A2A Skylane.

[hollow oracle]

huh, when you get past a certain point in volanta, it changes from flights across the pond to flights around the world

i have done 1.2 trips around the world with my mileage

[crisp adder]

https://fselite.net/content/watch-the-ifly-737max-in-action-right-now-new-previews-too/

iFly 737MAX NDA has been lifted.

[shadow burrow]

They have one. Just incredibly unsupportive and disrespectful

[shadow burrow]

And ini

But ini left for laziness and greed

[topaz geyser]

Ohhhh... Yeah, I honestly forgot about them.

[trim harbor]

https://fselite.net/content/first-look-ifly-737-max8-for-microsoft-flight-simulator/

ifly didnt disappoint

thank god

i wasa gonna be really sad if their product would've been worse than p3d

[woeful elbow]

yoyo

[dusky leaf]

🪿

[dusky leaf]

Freeware Catalina, an absolute joy to fly

[dusky leaf]

Doing the skeena river route - terrace - woodcock - smithers - houston - terrace

[rustic charm]

Bought the inibuilds JFK... cool

I should stop using the marketplace...

Well, I guess I'm departing from an invisible JFK

[mild zenith]

You should

[rustic charm]

The airport loaded in in the end

Just needed to give it some time

So now I'm halfway through another transcontinental flight

Which is going very fun, because I have no failures active (checked through the FMC) yet I have hydraulic pump B overheat light, and a very weird disbalance of fuel, as my right tank has over 2k lbs less than the left tank

[woeful elbow]

Im getting ued to flying helicopters now

[trim harbor]

dont use msfs

to learn how to fly helicopters

lol

msfs is such a bad platform for it

[woeful elbow]

what then

[trim harbor]

xplane or dcs are good for it

the vrs simulation in msfs is terrible

[woeful elbow]

xplane?

[trim harbor]

yes

@dusky leaf dont u fly alot of helis in xp

[woeful elbow]

looking for a bo15

105*%

[woeful elbow]

much better cheers

[hollow oracle]

Flying Helis is a lot harder in MSFS than it is GTA

I’m joking of course

[woeful elbow]

lol

[echo gorge]

I dont have it, but afaik the x-plane bo-105 is supposed to be pretty good https://store.x-plane.org/Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm-Bo-105-DBS-4-_p_1529.html

And x-plane's helicopter simulation is vastly superior to msfs'

[rustic charm]

(Can't that be said about simulation overall, not just helis?)

[echo gorge]

Yes but

The helicopter simulation in MSFS is worse than the helicopter simulation in some shooter games (cough arma3 cough) so the gap is far wider

The gap in fidelity of flight models for fixed wing is significant but not insurmountable imo, where it absolutely is insurmountable for helos

[shadow burrow]

it is

but i feel 12 feels a bit too gamey

idk about helos

[rustic charm]

My flight right now... I have no idea what's going on

The T/D the plane gave me was around 800nm from the destination

[echo gorge]

There's some fun helos in msfs and some devs have done excellent work, but the flight model is just so arcadey that once again a shooter has better flight models

[echo gorge]

Oof lmao

[rustic charm]

It's literally descending at like 50fpm right now

[shadow burrow]

bf has better heli simulation from what I've tried

[rustic charm]

Also, engine 2 is using like 50% more fuel than engine 1

And the hydraulics B are apparently overheating

[echo gorge]

That's quite screwy

[rustic charm]

Flying cross country on a 738 is fun xD

[woeful elbow]

found it tar

[dusky leaf]

I do, and DCS, did try the MSFS heli FM, and my impression was it was a lot better than FSX, but that wasnt exactly a very high bar 😆

[shadow burrow]

Uhm.

What plane?

[rustic charm]

Folks, anybody who knows charts well, what might # indicate in minimums? There are separate minimums for S-ILS 9 and S-ILS 9 # and they are really different, idk what to use

[rustic charm]

The 73

[shadow burrow]

Failures on?

[rustic charm]

Yeah, but none active

[shadow burrow]

Hmmm

[echo gorge]

Can you post a screenshot of the plate?

[rustic charm]

Here's the chart https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/2410/pdf/00373IYLY9.PDF

[shadow burrow]

will be radio and baro

[rustic charm]

Alrighty

Kinda weird to have a 500ft difference between the 2 considering that the area is right at the sea level basically

[shadow burrow]

loc only then

[echo gorge]

Nope

There's a loc as well

Really not sure what it is

[shadow burrow]

nah ILS no GS

[topaz geyser]

@rustic charm As a sanity check, is there page 2?

[rustic charm]

On the chart? Not that I know of

Should all be there

There should be an alternate minimums document, maybe I should've looked there...

[topaz geyser]

Because I'm looking at other FAA charts and papers and a # almost always means a footnote.

[rustic charm]

Wait I'm stupid it's just minimums for potential alternate airports

[echo gorge]

Ahh

[topaz geyser]

Oh!

Like I said, a footnote.

[echo gorge]

That makes sense, san barely uses rwy 9

[rustic charm]

Oh that makes sense

[echo gorge]

It's almost always loc-27

Which lacks an ils

[rustic charm]

Well 27 right now would give me a tailwind, I'd prefer landing in a headwing xD

[echo gorge]

Makes sense

It's rare the winds go that way

[rustic charm]

Did a gusting tailwind landing in LAX on my previous transcontinental flight, on a 77W, never again

[topaz geyser]

@rustic charm Here's why I generally prefer Jeppesen. They are a bit more uniform.

[rustic charm]

Alright, that makes sense now

[topaz geyser]

So that's supposed to be a footnote for a missed approach climb gradient, but... evidently, there's an error on the plate.

Real aviation, ladies and gentlemen.

Actually, from the anecdotes I've heard, navdata errors are more common IRL than in the simulation...

@rustic charm Oh, so on the FAA plate the footnote isn't missing, it's misplaced.

[rustic charm]

Ah right

[rustic charm]

I see it now

On the missed approach

[topaz geyser]

Still, a typo.

Sigh FAA being FAA.

[rustic charm]

Welp, almost there

[alpine coral]

[green egret]

best aircraft ive flown

[neat stirrup]

off to Lihu'e

[dusky leaf]

So someone was asking about the MSFS heli flight model vs xplane. Been flying a bit of MSFS fixed wing recently and thought I would give helis another try. First 30 seconds were really positive! I thought maybe I could ditch XP and its poor performance. Unfortunately that never lasted long.

OGE climb at 40 torque? 😆

No VRS to speak of

Got a 300fpm descent with no forward airspeed and I could just raise the collective and climb out of it

Fkn spaceship simulator, you dont have to scratch very deep to see the arcade heli flight model

[trim harbor]

The no VRS part bothers me most

[dusky leaf]

Runway inspection failed 😆

Scenery was deliberately done like that, as thats how it is IRL - abandoned, not closed just abandoned

[trim harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTJHL1DeLSI

give me the damn thing ifly

im willing to pay

:((

[dusky leaf]

So, I was pretty much ready to uninstall XP due to low FPS

I got so desperate I even tried out the MSFS heli model, that didnt go well

The problem was between my ears 😆 I had nvidia control panel set to over ride app settings and set at 8x

X-plane looks pot ugly with the settings turned down

[topaz geyser]

Wait, what?

I knew it was bad, but... This is absurd.

[hollow oracle]

i may be critical of boeing, but god damn do i want to fly the max in msfs

especially because any airline that flys 737-800s is most likely going to be flying the max too

southwest, alaskan, ryanair,

[shadow burrow]

No MED modelled 😢

[eager moon]

the thing about MSFS helis is

it's all up to the dev

some devs have really great behaving aircraft that are wonderful

others are 0/low effort and can't VRS, can't RBS, can't do anything other than fly like a cartoon

as with anything MSFS, the devs have to properly implement things, and many don't, choosing to blame "Sim limitations" on their lack of knowledge/experience/willing to learn

[shadow burrow]

I mean there are significant sim limitations

The heavy lifting for performance is put onto the devs and not the sim

It’s the opposite for almost every other sim

It’s one of the many reasons that MSFS isn’t used in professional simulators

It’s also one of the reasons that XP12 needs some serious work before commercial licences are gonna start selling

[eager moon]

SiM lImItAtIoNs

[shadow burrow]

MSFS is pretty = Best sim ever

Forgot sorry

[eager moon]

Lol

I won't even try

[rustic charm]

Of course! Idk how could you even forget

[hollow oracle]

MSFS is so good that you forget that you even spent 2 days downloading it

[rustic charm]

Tbh in MSFS you can have nice aircraft, but devs really need to put in a lot of additional effort. And many just don’t.

[rustic charm]

Well, a day for me xD

But indeed, tbh even forgot it took that much

I guess I’m used to it from RailWorks. MSFS at least doesn’t need you to reinstall it every 3-4 months

[hollow oracle]

I was being sarcastic, I’m in a Stockholm situation with MSFS, I hate it so much yet I must play

I got a nice bit of money today, so the fenix A319/A321 is becoming even more extremely tempting

At the very least it’ll allow me to do American Airlines A319/A321 flights, plus SO MANY US airlines opted to buy either, instead of the regular A320

[topaz geyser]

Who forces you?

I own MSFS, yet I ended up never flying it.

The thing about X-Plane, I think a lot of people had expectations of it competing with MSFS, and when LR clearly indicated they don't care, those people felt betrayed.

[trim harbor]

surreal true argument

[topaz geyser]

And they saw everyone who defended X-Plane as accomplices to betrayal. I've lost people I considered close friends over it.

[topaz geyser]

Human psychology is fucked.

Especially now in the age of technological singularity.

[rustic charm]

It’s a bit crazy tbh. Genuinely, fly what you want, why do some people make it so hard

I fly MSFS mostly for 1 reason - I bought it, already spent a bunch of money and just don’t want it to go to waste. And I don’t want to have 2 sims cause that’d be even more money to spend.

[topaz geyser]

In the age when rulers don't tell people what to hate, people choose their own subjects. Most people need some sort of enemy to feel superior, confident, need context for their moral compass.

[rustic charm]

Indeed

[topaz geyser]

One gotta be very smart to surpass that... Which is not common.

[topaz geyser]

The only thing that would make me install MSFS would be A2A AccuSim 182.

Because there's just nothing like it.

But... It never happened.

The hard truth about AccuSim, it doesn't exactly prove much about the sim itself. Because AccuSim is literally just an external flight sim which uses MSFS only for visuals and the weather data.

[rustic charm]

To be honest I still quite like MSFS. It has drawbacks, but does enough for me. Plus that’s my money talking. Plus I’m still on a keyboard so I have like 2 planes which manage to be flyable like that lol

MSFS is just visuals over accuracy. While I’d love more accuracy, well I guess I’ll stick with it

[topaz geyser]

MSFS is a fine casual/gateway sim. It still will teach you to fly.

[rustic charm]

Indeed

It will teach you to fly, although won’t 100% depict the behaviour of the aircraft in the air

[topaz geyser]

I literally can't fly in MSFS anymore after logging some hours in a physical plane.

[rustic charm]

It’s at least okay for planes, helicopters though… I don’t fly helis, but for those who do that must feel awful

[topaz geyser]

It... doesn't even look right. MSFS looks for me like an idealized movie, with god rays, visualized scattering and everything. X-Plane looks like what I see out of the real cockpit. It's not as spectacular, but it's exactly as it is.

[rustic charm]

Plus with MSFS there aren’t really that many developers who are willing to develop systems and stuff. Really, the real reason why I just don’t wanna fly the recent 707 (shame we can’t have refunds…) ain’t even all the issues with the model stuff etc. it’s the lack of INS

[topaz geyser]

X-Plane picture is dull in comparison, but it's exactly what it looks like IRL, at least with my eyes.

YMMV probably.

It's all subjective.

[rustic charm]

I’d compare MSFS visuals to how TSW is. It is a bit too much. A bit overly beautified. I don’t really mind, but it’s not real

[topaz geyser]

I can't wait for the rest of True Earth to get released for XP12.

Oh wow, I missed something BIG.

[rustic charm]

Yeah

One of my friends got it

Apparently both the freighter and the passenger one are very nice

[topaz geyser]

Also, Nimbus ATL should be out.

[rustic charm]

You get a discount on one if you own the other, pay like 40$ something instead of 80

[topaz geyser]

Yeah, I know.

[hollow oracle]

Too broke to switch sims, yet I want to fly

MSFS is good enough for me anyways, it has good enough airbusses to keep me occupied

I’m hoping the inib A321neo will be any good

I haven’t tried their a320neo since the update, so I don’t know if that has been fixed either

[full plank]

lovely lang flug, haven't done one of those in quite a while

[untold finch]

The base game helis suck, I wouldn't even consider them worth trying

The stuff from Taog's Hangar or Cowansim tends to be better.

But yeah, no sim is going to compete with DCS in terms of helicopter modelling, sadly

[rustic charm]

So idk if it was said here yet but apparently the PMDG secret project has been unofficially confirmed

It's a 741

[trim harbor]

the aerosoft a330 ceo was leaked

lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/s/R8X9j3qRHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_FXNSqWcZk

awww maneee

low quality

😭

[rustic charm]

Well yeah, doesn't look too good...

[trim harbor]

i dont like him

but

tats funny

it looks just like the p3d one

really sad that this took 4 years

[trim harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvyhGDHrwU0

[rustic charm]

Apparently it's literally additional pay for pretty much everything?

A friend of mine tells me, RR & GE engines ain't included and are a separate purchase, neos are separate (that is quite obvious and fair imo), standard internal functions are a separate purchase

[untold finch]

Common aerosoft L

I like the CRJs but they aren't up to the standard any more
This thing just looks rough

[shadow burrow]

It’s just the P3D 330 from like 2015 lmao

Standard aerosoft product since 2018

Honestly can’t name something they have made that’s actually been worth buying in years

But it’s the only “ok” 330 so it will sell like wildfire

[rustic charm]

I expect they decided to release it now really quickly just so it’s before MSFS2024

Cause that has a 330 of its own

[untold finch]

yeah, almost certainly

Just dump the cashgrab now, maybe bother to fix it later

Aerosoft fell off so hard

[shadow burrow]

Anyone here old enough to remember the old Aerosoft Airbuses?

FSX & P3D?

[rustic charm]

Seems like don’t gotta be that old to remember the P3D 330, it was just released after all

[shadow burrow]

Nah the og’s

318,319,320,321

[trim harbor]

yes

i used to fly those all the time

with the pilots voice pack n stuff

and the raas

legendary at that time\

they werent terrible

they were good for their time imho

[shadow burrow]

The checklists 😍😍😍😍

This might be fun

Anyone wanna do STN - LEJ on Wednesday?

[rustic charm]

I'd do it but knowing MSFS it'll have 'wind calm clouds scattered 20000'

Or something along those lines

[trim harbor]

how much we thinknig the a330 is gonna be abandonware soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dItNpfFwj28

[rustic charm]

My bet is as soon as the reviews of the 2024 one start appearing if it’s mid-good

[hollow oracle]

Why are people saying the inibuilds one is going to be any better

Going by the A320neo, no

It’s going to be barely flyable

[rustic charm]

ini is a constant mixed bag

310 is wonderful

[hollow oracle]

The 300 is great too, but then the A320neo is just a weird strikeout

[untold finch]

Apparently Aerosoft spent 460,000 Euros of German taxpayer's money on the A330NEO/A340 project?

[hollow oracle]

Yes, doesn’t Germany fund like art projects and stuff?

I think that subwaysim game (that aerosoft also made, funnily enough) had a huge donation from the govt for its development too

[echo gorge]

Lots of countries fund game development, either directly or indirectly

[rustic charm]

Holy shit

I mean, I know this stuff is expensive

It's not easy to make games

But 460k?

[hollow oracle]

knowing how this project turned out, i have an idea of where most of those funds went

[rustic charm]

Yeah, I can kinda assume that too

[trim harbor]

so did tramsim

don't worry

[echo gorge]

My understanding (though very much from secondary sources) is that it frequently costs a decent bit more than that to develop a high fidelity tube

[rustic charm]

Well

But is high fidelty the right description in this case?

[echo gorge]

Not particularly, but by all indications it had an extremely troubled development, which often means the budget goes through the roof

[rustic charm]

Most likely they did

But at the same time

99% of the taxpayers are probably never going to touch it

[echo gorge]

Afaik It's more about the idea of trying to grow an indigenous games industry

[untold finch]

That's half a dozen software engineers for one year

[echo gorge]

And that (in theory) it'll be paid back in taxes when the product is successful

[tired pond]

460k isn't as much as you think

[rustic charm]

Yeah to be honest it looks like a lot at first

But then

For germany it's like less than a cent per taxpayer

[echo gorge]

Also (and this is pure speculation) I think it was something of a bailout, I don't get the impression aerosoft is doing well rn

[shadow burrow]

the eu paid for shitty vegetation

[rustic charm]

Circular grass

[shadow burrow]

i would assume so

OMSI is nearly dead

LOTUS died

and they lost all the good devs for fs addons

shit like this as well

[full plank]

it is pretty much dead

[shadow burrow]

still no SAM support

same scenery that was released for xp10

[full plank]

only shit being released from OMSI is total dogshit addons made by room temperature IQ cunts

[shadow burrow]

exactly the same as 11

doesn't even have the expanded t2

oh shit they are better than PMDG at least

working EFB from release

[rustic charm]

PMDG will tell you it's all Asobo's fault and sim limitations

[echo gorge]

Impossible

[rustic charm]

I just hope they won't butcher the 741 with their standard ipad they put into 73s and the 77W, would look so out of place

[hollow oracle]

paper flight bag

[rustic charm]

Pretty sure that's what FSS did basically

And I'm certain it's not harder to do than an ipad

[trim harbor]

has been dead since the beginning

[hollow oracle]

its funny because theyre a perfect example of death by 1000 cuts

release a shitty sim, people dont buy it, huge financial losses, make another sim and promise its not as bad as the last one, its shitty, people dont buy it, huge financial losses, repeat

[crisp adder]

That's the main point, for a couple of years now Germany is desperately trying to grow a native games industry. Of course, the grants are too little if you believe the industry, so the attempt has been rather unseccessful. Compared to some other subsidies these are indeed peanuts.

It's still a bit sad how Aerosoft has fallen but the terrible release of the A330 (and some other unsavoury experiences with them) confirms my stance of never touching any products that have their name on them.

https://fselite.net/content/first-flight-with-the-aerosoft-a330-not-ready-for-prime-time/

[woeful elbow]

🥱

[topaz geyser]

They've been trying to grow a national gaming industry by subsidizing the studios?

Was the idea planted by a Russian agent? It must have been, because it's not how any of it works.

[woeful elbow]

Ok Im in love

[echo gorge]

Uh no, that's exactly how it works

Loads of countries subsidize their games industries

[green egret]

xplane 12 honestly looks more realistic than msfs

[young hazel]

Explain then, most of these sim games get national funding, including TSW

[topaz geyser]

Idk, guess some European communism thing.

[hollow oracle]

i dont get why your confused, you develop a game, the country gives you money so youll stay in that country

[trim harbor]

bruh hows that communism

[hollow oracle]

the US literally does this...

most cities and things have cultural trusts that will give money to local art projects

[topaz geyser]

An example with a proof please. Lockheed Martin P3D being purchased by the Pentagon doesn't count.

P3D was literally developed for the purpose of selling to the government.

[hollow oracle]

i dont believe the US has one specifically for the games industry, but most local city and state governments do for art projects

[young hazel]

https://www.sbir.gov/

[topaz geyser]

And I'm talking specifically and exclusively about gaming industry.

[young hazel]

https://www.sbir.gov/success/sbir-sttr-success-woman-owned-business-designs-games-empower-youth

Literally a government program that does it lol

[hollow oracle]

its not only for the games industry though, that same program around europe is essentially just to foster a local commuinity of artists and industry

i literally work closely with a company that does exactly that, they get subsidized by the local govt to provide art projects for around the city

they also teach classes on the arts, which is where part of the funding goes

[topaz geyser]

You're missing the whole point but whatever. If it's done, it shouldn't be. Government funding only makes subsidized entities lazy and stagnating.

[hollow oracle]

aerosoft is the exception and not the standard

aerosoft has always sucked, and always will, it just happens that they applied for that govt program

[topaz geyser]

Well, that's exactly why they are lazy and are stagnating, lol.

[hollow oracle]

???

theyre lazy and stagnating because theyre aerosoft

not because they applied for that govt funding program that one time

[young hazel]

Libertarianism doesn't work in real life

[topaz geyser]

It's a feedback loop. Lazy people vote for socialists, socialists pay lazy people to stay lazy.

[young hazel]

Your favorite person Elon relies heavily on government grants

[hollow oracle]

you have severe brain damage

[topaz geyser]

Surpise: I hate Musk.

[rustic charm]

This sounds a bit like “I’d rather have to pay off 150k$ for a paper cut treatment than have free state healthcare because free state healthcare is communist”

[topaz geyser]

150k$ for a paper cut treatment
Strawman.

[hollow oracle]

because funding a local, in-country community of artists to make your country more culturally diverse is communism.

dont you people literally go on and on and on about how america needs to bring manufacturing and whatever back to the US, and all of a sudden when europe does it by giving a cash incentive, its cOmMuNiSm

[rustic charm]

I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of non-socialist governments utilise certain socialism ideas (free education, free healthcare, any government subsidies for absolutely any purpose) because those tactics work, they improve the country’s wellbeing, and they, in fact, do not make the country communist

Anyway, this is getting a tad bit close to the politics rule

[young hazel]

Enjoy your Saudi Public Investment Fund created games in your paradise, studios like Asobo rely on US grants, especially for their radar and cloud infrastructure

[topaz geyser]

This topic is getting bigger by the second and I'll probably won't change anyone's mind, so I won't waste my time and energy on you.

[hollow oracle]

likewise

[topaz geyser]

Appreciated.

[hollow oracle]

im getting the A321/A319 today