Flight Sims (MSFS, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, FS98...)

[hollow oracle]

afaik AWE hasnt been used by any other airline since

nope, BATC just has "airbus" callsign

[shadow burrow]

Msfs in general doesn't really support pre current day simulation. theres no retro traffic addons or anything. Flying a retro plane in a retro airline with everything else modern day feels wrong. Theres no need to make retro scenery thats fine as it is, but the only thing we have is the date and time of the sim which is kinda pointless as of right now

[hollow oracle]

im wondering if the "callsign" section in simbrief will override what BATC uses?

[hollow oracle]

I can’t get over how some pilots prefer to fly an Airbus like this

[shadow burrow]

If it works it works

It doesn’t matter how they hold it lmao as long as you fly the plane safely in a way that suits you

[hollow oracle]

True, it’s just silly

It’s designed to be gripped like a joystick, with the AP disconnect and trigger

[rustic charm]

When I’m going on a plane, I usually prefer that the pilot flies it 1) according to all the regulations 2) however they feel most comfortable with

So if they wanna control the sidestick/yoke using just 2 fingers, so be it. As long as they know what they’re doing.

[hollow oracle]

Yeah, I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, just different, and I (personally) find it a bit strange just because it’s different

[untold finch]

every aircraft i've flown in real life has been most comfortable to fly with fingertip pressure

if you're grabbing it with your whole hand it's much easier to overcontrol it

I wish them the best of luck, but I think they'll be regulated out of existence before they can even get off the ground with a full airliner (pun intended)

[rustic charm]

Now while I have no real experience, isn’t that the point of fly by wire anyway? To not require pressure to control, which is done for the ease of control

[untold finch]

the main point (as I understand it) is to improve safety and controllability by having a computer preventing the pilot from doing a stupid
the original F-16 stick didn't actually move at all, you controlled it entirely through pressure, until they realised that pilots hated it and they added a small amount of stick deflection
i think the airbus is also somewhat pressure sensitive, but I forget exactly how it works

but yeah, none of the things i've flown have been fly-by-wire, so I've not got a lot of experience on how they fly differently

[rustic charm]

Oh, so you could control non-fbw stuff with just an unnoticeable amount of pressure? I’d expect those would require a bit more

[untold finch]

The R-22 and Eurofox both really just need fingertip pressure to stay straight and level

[shadow burrow]

fr fr. America already Sanctioned supersonic travel it would cause massive political outbreak if they make a literal supersonic airliner after ruining Concorde

[untold finch]

yeah, and it'd have to be over the oceans only

[shadow burrow]

yup. and defo non profitable

[untold finch]

they should just hurry up and build star trek transporter tech already 😉

[shadow burrow]

they should hurry up and fix america ☠️

https://tenor.com/view/rotating-skull-gif-24524852

[hollow oracle]

i have a question about airbus SOP

why do you turn on fuel pumps before performing fire tests - wouldnt you want to make sure the engine fire indicators are working before you turn on the fuel to them?

[hollow oracle]

or are the fuel pump switches more auto/off than they are on/off

[trim harbor]

@shadow burrow https://youtu.be/d4pkfcVlVsw

[hollow oracle]

not satisfied with how the flight went, but it was smooth landing atleast, -165fpm

i had a huge lag spike that lasted a few seconds, and my plane decided to roll and pitch down, i managed to save it but it left a big lump on my flight path, also the issue with cabin altitude returned, if i tabbed out to do something it would spike to crazy vertical numbers

beyondATC took forever to recognize freq changes, so long that i was literally on the ground when i got landing clearance just from extremely late responses and late recognition

im not complaining, im just stating my experiences with the software that i had this flight

[hollow oracle]

Oh yeah, I had an engine starter fault on ENG2 too, I started engine 1 first instead, and then engine 2 started just fine right after, no clue what happened there

[lethal jasper]

No Frontier liveries for the Fenix A321 yet, oh well lol

[tired pond]

I think their 321's only have Sharklets, same with JetBlue

[lethal jasper]

Guess I'm flying my career with a plain livery 321 then

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shadow burrow]

Fuck yes

[rare radish]

WOOO

lets just say, what the fuck have they cooked

https://youtu.be/fldSitlMvEk

[rustic charm]

Tbh looks nice, some interesting new things

The A330 will be a nice addition for anyone who flies airbus (well, as long as it’s decent at least)

I wonder though, since any content you bought on the 2020 marketplace should be transferred to 2024 without additional charge, does that mean that people, who have premium, will receive it when buying 2024 standard?

Cause premium deluxe upgrade is technically an item you own on the marketplace

[shadow burrow]

I'm super excited for that Airbus A400M

[rustic charm]

I definitely see it being loved by the community

[shadow burrow]

I really hope the Ini A330 is actually good and not like that dog shit A320N we got which has great modeling but a fucking awful flight model and physics plus terrible sounds

Ini A310 was amazing
Ini A320N was fucking atrocious

[rustic charm]

Yeah, heard that was the case

[rare radish]

How is this game fucking real

[rustic charm]

I guess let's hope they do a 310-level job with this one

[rare radish]

Wow

[shadow burrow]

My internet 📉📉📉📉📉

[rustic charm]

Even though I don't fly Airbus pretty much, having a good 330 in the base game would be absolutely awesome

[shadow burrow]

CAPIBARRA ☠️

[shadow burrow]

I hope the A310 gets updated since the A300 is out. We need the PW variant and the -300F

[rustic charm]

True, the A310 feels a bit unfinished

As in, no freighter

[shadow burrow]

😭

[shadow burrow]

I would fly it a lot more if there was a Freighter. I only fly the A313 with Air Transat and Aeroflot and that's rare

[rustic charm]

Yeah, and considering that, we can all agree I think, the game is much more made for decently modern operations, a freighter would be less out of place tbh (even though the passenger 313s still fly and I've seen one at an airport even this summer)

[shadow burrow]

ULS is the last A310 operator in Europe and there's none in the US anymore

The A310 is kinda super rare now

There's more chance seeing an AN124

[rustic charm]

I believe the last flying A310s are in Iran

It's super rare but can be seen very occasionally

[shadow burrow]

Last passenger ones yeah

Same with A300s

[rustic charm]

Indeed

[shadow burrow]

They also still have a few 747-200Cs

[rustic charm]

Yeah. They really just don't get rid of old planes, because they just can't get the new ones

[shadow burrow]

Yeah they are literally sanctioned by pretty much everyone

[rustic charm]

More or less yeah

[shadow burrow]

I really really really hope that that A330 series isn't fucking shit. I don't wanna pay £120 for a 400GB game and find out that it's like the Asobo 787

[rustic charm]

Oh yes, genuinely want the 330 to be good

[shadow burrow]

I hope it's actually inibuilds and not 90% asobo

[rustic charm]

It's such a massively used plane, it's absolutely needed

[shadow burrow]

Oh fr FR

I don't wanna wait years for the Aerosnail one which is shit btw

I feel like the 747-400LCF is defo PMDG

It would link up with their so called 'teasers'

[rustic charm]

Idk if they would work on a 'default' release

Especially considering that they don't have the 747 done

[shadow burrow]

In msfs2024 they are really open about the default planes. Most are 3rd parts development.

[shadow burrow]

U never know

[rare radish]

Jeff Favignanos MSFS24 video shows alot

[untold finch]

Hot damn

Just saw the list of aircraft

Hope we get to keep MSFS 2020 aircraft too, I like some of the defaults

Looks like most of them are being included anyway tbh

I can see myself flying the Aircrane a lot

[alpine coral]

Peak

[untold finch]

Royal Canadian Air Force also operates them, iirc

As the Polaris

They had it at RIAT this year, looking pretty small next to a C-17

[shadow burrow]

Yeah but those are CC-150s which are kinda different. Same plane but very different to the commercial version

[young hazel]

The management sim aspects looks amazing, this is shaping up to be GOTY contender

[dusky leaf]

Looks more arcade than ever

[rustic charm]

Seems like it's their focus, the career mode and stuff

[shadow burrow]

Since there are events now like forest fires and tornadoes

When can we go to war 😈☠️
I need to put my AVRO Vulcan to use 😈

[untold finch]

Well, we've got Air-to-Air refuelling now, so Operation Black Buck is a go

[untold finch]

Well yeah, IGN aren't exactly going to show off a full IFR flight or anything

They're just going to treat it like "fly over your house 2"

When the proper content creators start getting their hands on it I expect to see more realistic stuff

Finally, they added wake turbulence... Should hopefully be able to get some proper vortex ring state simulation with that

[rare radish]

it looks like its going the arcade path but they added more simulation features than arcade tbf

[untold finch]

I don't see how it's going more "arcade" - the flight models have more detail, the terrain is better represented, there's more of a variety of aircraft and they're likely to be more high-fidelity than what 2020 shipped with...

Where's the arcade? I'm genuinely not seeing it

Yeah some of the included aircraft are going to be naff, like the A-10 (it's made by DC Designs after all) but I imagine most are going to be basically the upgraded stuff that Working Title has done

open source animal tracking database
okay i didn't expect that, that's awesome

[rare radish]

yeah

afaik they added over 100 animal types

[untold finch]

sweet, makes bush flying all the more fun

I still think I'm mainly going to do exactly what 99% of people here do when they play MSFS, and that's just launch into a free flight using a Simbrief flight plan, and use BeyondATC or VATSIM or whatever

maybe plug it into NeoFly if I want career stuff

I think the missions and stuff are nice to have if you want them though

[tired pond]

Bush flying is so fun

[untold finch]

Yeah, especially in helicopters

[hollow oracle]

C-17 LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

im assuming the 737 max is that new one thats been teased recently? cant remember the dev

im really excited for that too, but even more excited for the beluga, especially the fact that theyre doing the XL and not the ST

the C-17 is the only non-civillian aircraft ive ever been in, and theyre incredible machines, boeing really outdid themselves on the construction of them

pittsburgh used to house C-130s, but now they fly C-17s, and the support equipment they have there, and how impressive those machines are, im extremely excited to fly one

its not a joke when i say the vert stabilizer of those are like 5-6 stories tall, theyre gigantic, and it looks even larger in-person

[mild zenith]

its the 737 max from asobo

[hollow oracle]

ew...

[hollow oracle]

if that 787 is any indication of asobo boeing quality, im not excited

[hollow oracle]

wtf

KMYR doesnt have any SIDs or STARs

[untold finch]

And it used to be a lot worse until AU2 when Working Title fixed it

[untold finch]

yeah, it's not that big an airport I guess

[hollow oracle]

i was assuming ATC would vector you in manually, i guess that i cant even do that because BATC wont work with it

[rare radish]

asobo claimed the 737 is their best yet

[rustic charm]

Honestly I’d be very surprised if BATC could vector

Or any other AI for that matter

Can’t you just do a direct approach? Just going for ILS right away

I know it’s ‘unrealistic’ but I think the only option you have for vectoring is vatsim. That is, of course, if the controllers in the region are active

(They never are in Alaska)

[hollow oracle]

It does, it’s pretty simple vectoring but they do give you headings to follow

I was vectored out of KBDL and into KIAD last night,

[hollow oracle]

you can, and thats what i plan on doing, i feel like thats a bit goofy though

[hollow oracle]

i will never use vatsim

i think im fairly sim-qualified enough on the A320/neo to fly in vatsim, but i will never fly in vatsim, all ive ever seen is the controllers and staff having a mightier-than-thou attitude

[shadow burrow]

fuck yeah

[rustic charm]

BEA

Lovely

[reef isle]

n.1 in Europe 🎶

that jingle has been living rent free in my head for a few months now

[rustic charm]

Though I honestly am more of a BOAC guy myself

Though anything pre-1980 is cool and wonderful pretty much

[reef isle]

https://youtu.be/ZzW3MX-myCE?si=DgYAiVOB0LoLMOlC&t=0m35s

[rustic charm]

Btw this reminds me (don’t ask what connection these have, I don’t know), FSS released 1.04 of the 727 today. Apparently new flight model, texture improvements in the cockpit, and fixed the issue that made creation of fully metallic liveries impossible

(Yes I do check the FSS website often. Yes I do read full patch notes in hopes of finding any mention of the pax version)

Though I guess it makes much more sense to fix all the issues with just the freighter, and only then release the passenger one - one less product to update

[reef isle]

Ah interesting

I think I'll not get the 727 in a long time 😅

There is the starship coming and then fs24

[shadow burrow]

Working title whoopsie forgot winglets 🤦‍♂️

[lethal jasper]

I wouldve expected the registration to be correct xD

[shadow burrow]

It will most likely be just like the 747 we have now

Talking about those. They are just being ported to 24 I don't believe any changes are happening

[woeful elbow]

Was in the UK vat discord, people started hating me for nothing, so I just said some home truths and within 24 hours got banned 🤣

[echo gorge]

That may be the case in the uk, but with us controllers they've always been quite polite, even when i egregiously fuck up

I think the uk controllers get salty after dealing with the countless idiots that infest uk airspace at an otherwise unheard level

[shadow burrow]

I mean London control can get pretty heated but that's only if someone has no idea what they are doing and they clearly have done no revision. If you wanna try Vatsim just go ahead and try it. That's what I did it's super easy. It's just not online 24/7

[crisp adder]

https://stormbirds.blog/2024/09/19/msfs-2024-pre-orders-go-live-new-details-emerge-plus-preview-videos/

[young hazel]

that aviator price is kind of crazy

[hollow oracle]

I don’t even need to check to know that it’s $100+

Maybe around Christmas I’ll upgrade

[young hazel]

double that lol, its $200

these before and after shots are extremely impressive though

https://fselite.net/content/comparing-microsoft-flight-simulator-2020-to-microsoft-flight-simulator-2024/

provided you have the ideal specs of a 4080 or a 7900XT

[trim harbor]

Wwww

[trim harbor]

Im REALLY tempted to get the 727

[rustic charm]

Same

But I wanna wait for the passenger version

Problem is, idk if I can wait

[crisp adder]

All of the stuff that's been shown looks very impressive and worth the upgrade (unlike TSW), but at the same time I'm in no rush as 2020 still gives so much. Also I'm waiting to see what add-ons I bought for 2020 will be easily transferable.

Also, never pre-order and always wait for proper reviews.

[hollow oracle]

That’s another thing too, hopefully by December it’ll be compatible enough to where I can just drag and drop my existing community folder with no issues

If I can upgrade that seamlessly, while also getting a C-17, B38M, and the beluga, it might be worth the $200 ngl

Plus I’d have a lot of extra income via gifts around Christmas, and I’d just be out of welding school and probably in a job again

[untold finch]

Cheaper than buying the premium deluxe edition and all the local legends & famous flyers separately at least

I don't think it makes sense for anyone who has bought more than a few LL/FF aircraft though, unless you really want the rest
I got the ones I wanted already so I'm going to stick with premium deluxe

[rustic charm]

I think I don’t have any local legends or famous flyers lol

I think I haven’t even bought any aircraft that weren’t PMDG or JF

[hollow oracle]

The only famous flyer pack I bought was the skytrain because it benefitted the USO, and it was okay I guess

I suck at flying the DC-3, and especially the C-47, but it’s a fun aircraft atleast

I have a flight plan that one of the C-47s took to drop paratroopers on D-day, and I’ve yet to do it because navigating in the C-47 is not like setting a flight path in an Airbus FCU

[full plank]

I suspect there'll be updates pushed for existing aircraft to bring them in line with the sim

that said, im impressed with the amount of standard edition aircraft on offer, whether they'll actually be any good is anyones guess

but im in no rush to purchase 24

[rustic charm]

I’ll definitely wait for reviews

[hollow oracle]

I feel like it’ll be a significantly better upgrade than TSW yearly versions are, the only thing that’s stopping me from buying it is the price really

[rustic charm]

Wanna first know whether I will keep my premium deluxe if I buy 2024 standard (that would make sense to me, considering premium deluxe is an ‘add-on’ technically) and whether the included boeings are any good

[full plank]

A321neo LR

[hollow oracle]

That too, who is making the C-17? I’m hoping it’ll be by a reputable dev, but I haven’t seen anything

I’m not very hopeful for the max either, I’m waiting on that other one to release

[rustic charm]

Why does everyone just have to bring tsw into this

[hollow oracle]

It’s a simulator game that gets meaningless yearly releases

Compared to MSFS, when there’s a separate core game paid update it’s usually very worth it

The devs a Microsoft/asobo actually care about the game, unlike the higher ups at DTG

[rustic charm]

‘Meaningless’ as in those that keep the developer afloat by offsetting the costs of improving the core (instead of just releasing the DLCs) and by allowing the developer to get much more publicity and advertising for their game than they could get with an update

And TSW is, by the way, a game, which is not sponsored by a multi-billion corporation that gets enough money to just not care where to spend it

[hollow oracle]

That is true, plus the cost difference between both games really show in their quality too

You pay less - or even free - for TSW, while MSFS prices are (not even really arguably) outrageous

[rustic charm]

Well to be honest, if you’re first time into MSFS then I wouldn’t call it outrageous, with just how much content you’re getting

But if you’re moving from 2020 to 2024, then yeah, steep

That’s why I hope at least I won’t have to pay for premium deluxe again

[hollow oracle]

I’m still pissed that the “AAA new game price” was upped from $60 to $70, and especially being that same price in 2024, not to mention publishers like Nintendo keep games from like 2017 at that $70 price tag still too

That is a HUGE factor as to why I’ve been buying and playing indie games way, way more than I do new AAA games

[crisp adder]

Because MSFS is a stark contrast to TSW. In my view, Asobo is how DTG should be.

[trim harbor]

Whos making it?

INI?

[full plank]

not sure tbh, only just found out about it

wouldn't surprise me if ini made it considering the 320neo

[rustic charm]

Give DTG same amount of Microsoft funding and I promise you they will be like Asobo

[untold finch]

Yeah, DTG is run the way it's run because they're a much smaller, more niche business

[reef isle]

where can I find the vatuk discord?

I couldn't find it

[reef isle]

and being London Control there is 100% chance that a significant number or people will have no idea what they're doing 😄

[crisp adder]

I'm following DTG for several years now and I have massive doubts about that. I had some hope when Sam was smacking some heads, trying to steer DTG into a better position a couple of years ago, but except for that short phase DTG never showed any signs of improvement. Their business is mediocrity and it reflects in how the company is conducting itself.

[woeful elbow]

dont know got banned from checking lol

[reef isle]

huh? what?

seems like unless you're a controller you can't join

[woeful elbow]

they changed it then so

https://www.vatsim.uk/discord

[reef isle]

oh nice

when I try to go to that page it forced me to log in

I must have missed something

thanks

[reef isle]

Most Likely DC

they announced they were doing a C-17 a long time ago and have been quiet ever since

same with the A-10

also with the A-10 you can tell it's DC because the flight model is god awful

[reef isle]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

INI FIXED THE BELUGA

it only took like 2 months after they said it was going to happen "soon"

but better late then never

[untold finch]

I have a hunch it's the same folks as the freeware one, but I might be wrong

[reef isle]

I doubt it, but could be

[untold finch]

Other than the sounds, the freeware one was pretty good

[reef isle]

I think the fact that DC announced that he started the project and then went quiet all of a sudden is too sus

[untold finch]

Yeah, possibly

Then again DC announces a lot and completes quite a bit less

[reef isle]

That's fair as well

ahah

[untold finch]

still waiting for that Concorde rework that was meant to have been done, what... last summer?

I'm sure it'll come eventually, just on a much longer timescale than initially expected

[reef isle]

I still remember him saying that he was going to add CIVA not too long after release

ahahhaha

I can't believe I gave that guy money... 🙄

[woeful elbow]

[untold finch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaXeQ1nJjn4

Shows just how much they've improved the terrain detail. It's ridiculously good now.

[hollow oracle]

I forgot that you can do life flights in MSFS24 too, I can finally simulate the ones that fly over my house like once every 5 minutes

[rustic charm]

It's been 3 hours. I'm still flying. This is very unusual for me.

[dusky leaf]

Not been paying that much attention to the fs2024 articles. Have they given any details of flight model tweaks?

[rustic charm]

Pretty sure this is the grand canyon

[hollow oracle]

its insane how fast beyondatc picks up on frequency changes in the PMDG planes, but on the fenix it takes a solid 30 seconds or so

[dusky leaf]

This made me lol from one of the devs

I'll sum it up: If we fixed every single issue with X-Plane we'd all be unemployed and you'd have nothing to complain about anymore.

[shadow burrow]

I think one thing people forget is laminar is tiny compared to Asobo

But I’ll still complain about the shitty stutters in 12

[dusky leaf]

They are doing fine though, just hired some more new staff.

[rustic charm]

And they don't have Microsoft funding either

[trim harbor]

shared cockpit EDDM-KSFO

[rustic charm]

Have fun!

[trim harbor]

Not without xplane crashing a few times tho

[rustic charm]

Welp...

At least there's a nice 340 in xplane

And not a LVFR one

[trim harbor]

it is ini indeed

[rustic charm]

So probably same thing as the A320 v2 in terms of quality

[woeful elbow]

Omg, approach into gatwick, was mental

[untold finch]

That's an A321LR right? So it shouldn't end up competing with the Fenix

[rustic charm]

Yeah it should be LR

Tbh I heard people say the ini 320 is awful so idk how that one’s gonna be

[wide zenith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFgWi4EZ7Xo

[shadow burrow]

That's a simconnect issue not the addon issue.

[shadow burrow]

It won't be anywhere near as good as fenix.

[untold finch]

Indeed, but it's also a different aircraft so no big deal

[shadow burrow]

Hopefully it will be better than the A320N they made

That one is awful

[shadow burrow]

Yes the flight model is simulated completely different and for the first time we will see stuff like wake turbulence, windsheer, gust winds, and so much more. I believe wipers will actually work in this SIM too

[shadow burrow]

Oh TSW is a scam. It's all about money they don't even add anything significant each game release and the Devs are getting more and more lazy each addon.

Msfs is different

[trim harbor]

it looks good at the very least imo

the max looks garbage im gonna be real

it's free though so no complaints

[shadow burrow]

The modeling is good but the systems is terrible

[hollow oracle]

i might attempt my first non-ILS landing today

do you just, set the vertical speed based on your speed once you get to the top of the glideslope?

like, for gibraltar, it shows that there's a radar fix 5NM before the runway, and theres a ground speed chart and a descent angle fpm under it

obviously you have to disable autopilot significantly earlier to get a smooth landing, but im guessing thats all you need to do to get you down to the runway?

im doing it in the A320, so if i have issues im in a plane in very comfortable in, and can easily execute a go-around in

[shadow burrow]

RNAV = Check the chart it might be FPA or a G/P (localiser)
GLS = Do Nothing
VOR = Do whatever you can (localiser)
IGS = Basically Special RNAV
RNP = Basically RNAV
FLS = Basically RNAV
SBLS = Basically ILS

[hollow oracle]

the chart says its an SRA landing

[shadow burrow]

LXGB is a visual guidance approach. Which means you manage the approach yourself

[shadow burrow]

Show me the chart?

[hollow oracle]

it looks like theyre all regular waypoints, not much vectoring needed?

that turn into the runway might be manual though

i may sub the fenix A320 with the FBW A32NX though, BAW runs them interchangably on that route it seems

[shadow burrow]

Yeah that's a visual guidance approach

You can see with the ">>>" lines which are manual control points

[shadow burrow]

0 vectors needed.
A solid straight line is managed by the Nav system
A dotted line is a vector
An arrowed line is manual flight

[shadow burrow]

There's only easyJet and British airways that fly to Gibraltar. And they only fly from the UK. you'll never find any other airlines there.

Iberia used to fly there back in the day but that was over 10 years ago

[dusky leaf]

Any links to the fm info?

[shadow burrow]

Literally watch any of the YouTube videos where they have hands on with the new SIM ☠️

[alpine coral]

gg

[dusky leaf]

Ok, found the gen myself, and funnily enough it wasnt on youtube 😆

https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/hands-on-msfs2024-global-preview-event

If you scroll down to the aerodynamics section you will find the meat and potatoes

But always take what he says with a pinch of salt as he used to extol the virtues of the fsx heli flight model

Doesnt sound too hopeful in the hands on section

[shadow burrow]

Thunderstorms in Stansted today

Can’t wait

[hollow oracle]

i tried MSFS in VR, its surprisingly fun

definitely not a gimmick, i could see it being better than using a flat screen, but if your performance is bad playing just regularly, divide it by 3 for your VR performance

[shadow burrow]

If you have an Nvidia 40 series card you can just use DLSS 4. Pair that with an AMD X3D CPU and your golden

[static mango]

Anyone seen all the new footage coming out of MSFS 2024?

Looks stunning

[shadow burrow]

It does look good however it is gonna be terrible performance on low end systems and people with low internet

[static mango]

Haha so me and my xbox series x then

[shadow burrow]

yeah you wont be able to run on Ultra or even High

idk what the performance of the SX is on msfs2020 but last time i checked the Xbox series consoles are AMD Zen4 based and are lacking in terms of technology these days. I remember when the big selling point of the SX was 12 TFlops of Grpahic power however fast forward to todays and my PC is producing well over 40TFlops. Pair that with 64GB of ram and 24GB of VRAM the Xbox's are certinatly lacking

then again my pc does cost well over 6 times as much as an SX

[woeful elbow]

I forgot how the max 8 climbs out like a 757 xd

[trim harbor]

thx batc lol

[rustic charm]

Which airport is that in?

Also, I guess time for some deconstruction xD

[trim harbor]

KDEN

[rustic charm]

Ah, alright

[shadow burrow]

Bruh always check your taxi briefing before following BATCs instructions 🤦‍♂️

[trim harbor]

cannot be arsed

ibr

[shadow burrow]

Fairs

[tired pond]

Tbh I bet that batc only thinks about wingspan rather than height

[shadow burrow]

Not even wingspan. It just categories you

In the 77W it's very common to just never get assigned a gate

[trim harbor]

they need to add oceanic stuff

[rustic charm]

It's on their roadmap I think

[shadow burrow]

They need to add a lot

But they will

it's already way better than any other AI based ATC

[alpine coral]

How was the performance for you?

[trim harbor]

100%

[mild zenith]

Where is this?

[crisp adder]

EDSZ, Rottweil-Zepfenhan, a small local airfield in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. There´s a lovely freeware version on fs.to: https://de.flightsim.to/file/56076/edsz-rottweil-zepfenhan-thyssenkrupp-testturm

[mild zenith]

Thank you

[hollow oracle]

Probably around 10-15 FPS

Barely playable, but I fought through to TO just to see how it was

It didn’t help that I was using air link on top of MSFS extremely high bandwidth draw, so it was double bad

[mild zenith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyMNAr6cGiM

[hollow oracle]

is that walkaround mode a custom feature or a MSFS 2024 feature?

[eager moon]

24 feature

[untold finch]

Hope it works in VR

The A2A PA-24s one does, though it's a little janky, but it adds a lot

[dusky leaf]

Not one to slate freeware but jeez thats terrible

[alpine coral]

Damn, I see
Mine isn't so great either but it's playable

[alpine coral]

Same
Imagine being able to walk anywhere in the world in VR
Sounds dope

[eager moon]

vFA's twinkie is rough but fixable, needed a few flight model edits and aliased sounds/engine, but it is overall a good first step into MSFS

[hollow oracle]

https://news.alaskaair.com/company/alaska-airlines-completes-acquisition-of-hawaiian-airlines-expanding-benefits-and-choice-for-travelers/

How did this happen and I was totally oblivious

[shadow burrow]

Time for some 321neos to come on to the market

[hollow oracle]

I hope not 🥲

Hawaiian operates some A330s too

[shadow burrow]

ASA single-handedly removing all A321neos from the United States

Gonna buy Delta next

[rustic charm]

How come I never knew

I guess I’m gonna fly Hawaii now too

[shadow burrow]

Hawaiian will most likely get 737 MAX to replace the 717s. Since they are now part of Alaska.
Alaska themselves have retired all A320 airframes that they got from Virgin America

[rustic charm]

Yeah

Idk if they’ll retire the Hawaiian Airbus fleet too

[shadow burrow]

They are not getting rid of A330s any time soon

Hawaiian themselves just got brand new A330-200P2Fs

[rustic charm]

Yeah, but having a total of 45 airbuses within over 250 Boeings…

[shadow burrow]

Believe me Hawaiian isn't going to ditch it's Airbus fleet

Theres a reason why they still operate the A330 in the first place

[rustic charm]

Well, ditching all the new aircraft wouldn’t really make sense

[shadow burrow]

Hawaiian deliberately has a mixed fleet. Alaska wouldn't dare remove that. Plus with more A330s joining their fleet there's no point removing them. And Hawaiian will always be its own airline. Just like how Aer Lingus and British Airways are separate even tho they are under the same company

[reef isle]

@rustic charm you were right, the C17 is Miltech 😄

Which is good

[rustic charm]

Wait I was right? I don’t think I even talked about it much 😅

[reef isle]

Oh no

Did I get the wrong person

[rustic charm]

Possibly xD

[reef isle]

Ah yeah, it was @untold finch sorry

C-17 is Miltech, not DC, you were right

[rustic charm]

Yeah, after all, they did specifically write that they will save both identities instead of it being like with Alaska’s acquisition of Virgin

Also can I just say that Hawaiian and Alaska tails fit each other perfectly

[untold finch]

I wonder if they teamed up with Delta Simulations on it

Does not seem so

Also the CH-47D that is included in FS24 is not the Miltech one

So now we get two, yay...

[reef isle]

🫤 yeah

[shadow burrow]

And the A400M-160 is Inibuilds which means they are both gonna be great quality 😁

https://youtu.be/lXFNucnMtHc?si=xb0-HYiC_iPabZCz

[reef isle]

eh...

I tried the A320v2 a few weeks ago and I absolutely hated it 😄

but yeah not surprising, the A400 has more or less A380 systems, another plane that ini is doing.

[shadow burrow]

Yeah but that's 90% asobo. Idek why they call it inibuilds

[shadow burrow]

Yes apart from it has TACAN systems, HUD, low light operations, Night vision, Camera guidance, terrain following, LIDAR, Anti Weapon systems, pneumatic controls, Electronic Warfare, Low Heat operations, Auto follow throttle, and so much more

[naive nova]

You what's up @static mango I know you from Arma modding. And What's up @alpine coral I know you from MSFS modding. Small world, eh?

[alpine coral]

It really is 👋
Was that on the servers or the forums? Just curious

[naive nova]

Forum's I'm StevenPearce833

You bought my trains product 🙂

[alpine coral]

Ah yes, I just realized
Welcome 🙂

I haven't played FS since but I'll be on the lookout for trains at more locations

[static mango]

Hello lol

[hollow oracle]

ngl, i hope so, that gives me even less of an excuse to fly island hop flights

[reef isle]

1st. Bold of you to assume any these things will be in MSFS (I hope at least TACAN will be, and I'm sure they can use VOR logic for that)
2nd. Based on or similar doesn't mean literally the exact same 😄

If you're also doing an A400M you can take its systems and modify them or add/remove stuff as needed to make the A380, or the other way around.

TFR has a small chance of being there, but I wouldn't hold my breath. LIDAR, Night Vision, and everything related to electronic warfare/countermeasures will be just cosmetic, or a really bad bodge at best, or completely non functional at worst.

I remember some workarounds some devs did to try and ""recreate"" night vision and LIDAR, and it would have been better off without it honestly. This isn't going to be a DCS module

I've no idea what you mean by "auto follow throttle"

[reef isle]

do you have a source for that?

Because AFAIK with these kinds of planes MS only gives the scope and limitations of the planes and then second parties do their own thing, not saying it's just an inibuilds plane published by MS, but it seems fairly clear to me that most of the development was done by them, if you think this is wrong I'd be really happy to be proven wrong, as I'm really worried a lot about most of the ini Airbus line up to be honest

[rustic charm]

Tbh don’t they try to avoid anything related to warfare? Like, taking guns off the fighters kind of thing. So I expect countermeasures and stuff are not gonna make it in

[reef isle]

Yeah 😄

The A10 has no gun

[rustic charm]

Which is ironic cause in reality that’s the base of the plane, the start of the plane. Without gun, no A10

[reef isle]

hahaah yep 😛

The A10 is most likely going to be the worst of the worst

out of all the planes they showcased it was easily the weakest under pretty much all aspects

[rustic charm]

Honestly I’m not too fussed cause I don’t fly military (or pretty much anything apart from standard commercial) but military folks will probably be upset

[naive nova]

it's made from Turbosquid models lol. DC Designs literally reselling shit off turbosquid to Microsoft

[reef isle]

Why am I not surprised? DC Designs moment 🙄

[rustic charm]

Although again, for military flying, there’s DCS and stuff, so…

[trim harbor]

(juist fly dcs)

yea exactly

[rustic charm]

Reminds me of a certain developer on the RailWorks scene

[naive nova]

https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3ds-max-a10-cockpit/712015 you can see the exact same bad normals on the edges in the footage

[reef isle]

Yeah I don't think anyone is going to care, it's not like the current default F 18 is that much better

[rustic charm]

Honestly the only times I’ve flown the fighters in MSFS are just for the memes or to get somewhere fast

[naive nova]

i don't mind what any 3rd party does, but idk why Microsoft chose to go with that developer for a native aircraft...

[rustic charm]

Absolutely

[trim harbor]

gsx is such a hit and miss

it keeps breaking stuff

really annoying

[rustic charm]

I mean, third parties do whatever they want really. Simply if they don’t do quality justice, it won’t be bought much. But for default planes…

[rustic charm]

But at least you have non-default ground equipment xD

[trim harbor]

i'd prefer that over the pushback

who makes me have to restart every 3rd flight

[rustic charm]

Oh that’s not fun

[trim harbor]

shift p all the way

[shadow burrow]

I mean people said the same about virgin america

[rustic charm]

True, yet here we are

[hollow oracle]

That radar looks fun

[shadow burrow]

Im just listing the things the A400M has that the A380 doesnt

[shadow burrow]

LIDAR wont be added because the technology is classified on the A400M, In fact it doesn't even have a description of use making it very difficult to know exaclty whats its purpose is

[shadow burrow]

A400M has AFT which is a system that allows perfect separation in formation flying

[shadow burrow]

literally anything about the plane. It was developed by asobo entirely, inibuilds simply did the systems. why they named it after inibuilds is a mystery but its no more than 20% of the work

[shadow burrow]

Virgin America died tho and was a domestic airline. Hawaiian is greatly international

[shadow burrow]

“Died”

It doesn’t matter where they fly either

I would assume that Hawaiian are going to be refreshing there fleets soon since the 330’s in passenger operation are quite old now

God I’m being an ass this morning

[trim harbor]

a330 my love pls dont

[shadow burrow]

Well they have just received newer A330s from Etihad and Air Hong Kong. Plus unlike Alaskan their owner they fly much greater distances. And due to the poor quality of the 787s that Hawaiian revived they won't be getting rid of their biggest profitable plane.

Hawaiian also operates a mixed fleet purposefully similar to how Virgin Atlantic do. They prefer getting the best of both worlds rather than sticking to one manufacturer

[shadow burrow]

Yeah then Alaska took over the operations, and then they removed the A320s for 737s because Alaskan are Boeing meatriders and because they couldn't be arsed to have a small fleet of A320s in their massive 737 one.

[shadow burrow]

The 330’s won’t go now

I would take a guess that in about 5 years when the 330’s have some decent mileage on them ASA group would send them away

Again this was ASA buying Hawaiian not a merger

Unless they are just gonna keep the fleets separate with no cross operability and I highly doubt that, the odds are we are gonna see some 737max’s in Hawaiian livery within the next 5-10 years

[rustic charm]

ASA decide what happens. But retiring the airbus fleet right now would not be the best decision, they will probably let it fly for now. But in 5 or so years, we’ll see changes. And if Alaska keeps as is, those changes will likely be in favour of Boeing

[shadow burrow]

Was the same with virgin

[rustic charm]

Pretty much yeah

[shadow burrow]

They sent the Airbus fleets away after a decent amount of time

I think Covid was when they lost the last couple

[green egret]

bit of rough air

[rustic charm]

I expect here it is gonna be pretty much the same situation as with Virgin, except they will keep the Hawaiian livery

[shadow burrow]

Yeah

Long haul is the exception because fuck knows what they want to do with that

[rustic charm]

Which is lovely because frankly, the livery is nice. And it does more or less fit in with Alaska livery

[shadow burrow]

It’s profitable but like they said the 789’s aren’t the best

So we will see

[shadow burrow]

I mean I think 332’s would look insane in ASA livery tbh

Alaska Airlines transatlantic when?

[rustic charm]

They could eventually go for 777X, but really, depends on how it goes. I’ve not been following the latest news on that plane, but I think there were some new issues recently

[rustic charm]

Yeah, honestly overall a widebody in ASA livery would look interesting

[shadow burrow]

I mean it’s just new gen Boeing jank

Nothing serious tho the orders are still rolling

[trim harbor]

imagine an alaskan 77W at like EGLL or EDDF

that would look weird af

[rustic charm]

Definitely

Very unusual

[shadow burrow]

We get ACA and Westjet 737’s in London regularly

That’s already weird as shit

[trim harbor]

i know WJA but ACA??

do they fly their max from st johns?

[shadow burrow]

Halifax and St John’s into Heathrow

[trim harbor]

thats crazy

[shadow burrow]

They used to do it with 319’s as well

[trim harbor]

what the

[shadow burrow]

T2 under construction in the background

[trim harbor]

thats genuinely so damn weird

like why

ACA EU ops soon TM

[shadow burrow]

Toronto - St John’s - Heathrow

[trim harbor]

i would do it

[shadow burrow]

I really want to do it with the toliss but XP has negative good scenery for St John’s

[rustic charm]

I mean, tbh east coast to western Europe isn’t too weird with narrowbodies. Imagine if Alaska flew to Europe on a narrowbody lol

[trim harbor]

7379ER babyyy

[rustic charm]

Exactly

And they do have those after all

[shadow burrow]

Jet2 are starting New York apparently in December

321’s

[trim harbor]

????????????????????????????

jet2???

[shadow burrow]

Stansted and Manchester

[trim harbor]

that trash airline to ny?

prob the airport PLAY flies to

[shadow burrow]

Jet2 is actually really good lmao

[trim harbor]

stewart intl airport

[shadow burrow]

For what you pay for I would take them over Play

[trim harbor]

id take anything over a stop in iceland ngl

[shadow burrow]

They sell holidays so probably EWR I would guess

[trim harbor]

if they fly to ewr

id be suprised

[shadow burrow]

I want to note this isn’t confirmed I was just talking to some Jet2 crew last week and they were saying this is on the cards for the 321’s

[trim harbor]

reg a321?

[shadow burrow]

Nah

Neos

The ones they own not the titan airways leased ones

They mentioned December

[rustic charm]

Stewart… the forgotten one

[shadow burrow]

Potentially, but surprisingly the A330 can last a really damn long time. Hawaiian is also in a bit of a sticky situation, they cancelled the A330-800Neo order for the 787s and they got some terrible 787s. But they can't just reactivate their A330Neo order. So they will probably have these A330s until something worthwhile comes. I believe they have A321XLR orders I'm not sure.

Thing is they will never get the 777X or A350 because they don't have the budget or the passenger demand for them.

[echo gorge]

It's alaska now, they clearly want to remain all boeing. Give it a few years and I expect they'll be running some form of boeing instead (probably a max tbh)

[rustic charm]

Indeed. They pride themselves in being all-Boeing. They wouldn't write "Proudly all Boeing" on their planes otherwise. So it's likely their current A321 fleet will be sold off in favour of 737max in a few years. With the A330s, idk, they might let them fly longer. They might go for Dreamliners instead. Might go for other planes, idk. Really it's up to Alaska. But that's the point now, Alaska is in charge now.

[shadow burrow]

hawaiian has only just recived the A321Neo
And they only have 10 787s on order
Thats not going to cover the 24 A330-200 and A330-300s they have

[echo gorge]

People said the same thing about virgin America though and alaska still ended up ditching the airbusses

[shadow burrow]

I think the average fleet age of the Virgin America 321’s by the time they were withdrawn was 4

Actually I think most of Hawaiians 321’s are leased not bought

So it would be even easier to just say Ciao Ciao

[shadow burrow]

Emirates A350-900 has done RTO tests today at TLS.

[shadow burrow]

Well they can't say that for their Amazon Air A330Fs. They own those and have just received another this week

[hollow oracle]

didnt hawaiian just take delivery of their first dreamliner not that long ago?

alaska probably has their eyes set on selling some new-ish aircraft to fund boeing replacements

[shadow burrow]

Yes and they already don't like them

[hollow oracle]

doesnt surprise me

theyre grade A shit

[shadow burrow]

Hawaiian will always be separate from Alaskan tho unlike virgin America.

[shadow burrow]

FR. G-TUIE had to do a go around and land at an alternative airport the other day because of engine issues. They are so poorly built

[hollow oracle]

the whistleblower that boeing had killed was primarily calling out the 787's quality, not even the max's

[hollow oracle]

"something something boeing didnt build the engines", but i argue that boeing did install them

[shadow burrow]

The quality has been known for ages tho, I mean look at TUI and Norwegian they have both had some of the worst 787s

[hollow oracle]

the poor quality has been known, but not the entirety of it publically, the whistleblower really put into perspective how shitty their built, we only knew how shitty the final product was

[shadow burrow]

Boeing Primarily designs them and then GE builds them since Boeing doesn't have the facilities. That's why it's called the GENX, GE90, and GE9X instead of CF-(x)

[shadow burrow]

It's a shame that Boeing let something like this happen. This is what killed McDonnell Douglas you'd think they would learn

[hollow oracle]

actually, the mcdonnell douglas situation is really strange

they essentially bought boeing with boeing's own money

[untold finch]

McDonnell Douglas is the problem, their management is why this is happening

[hollow oracle]

mcdonnell douglas had boeing purchase them, and then put all of their leadership at the top of boeing, so the modern-day boeing is more mcdonell douglas than boeing

[untold finch]

Lockheed Martin needs to make a comeback into the civvie space

[shadow burrow]

It's like Porsche and VW essentially.

[shadow burrow]

Is it not the fact that Boeing an Aircraft manufacturer has got a Marketing directive as a CEO instead of an Engineer. A literal cost cutter as their head of staff instead of someone with knowledge

[shadow burrow]

Wasn't their last debut the L-100 which didn't end well?

Yeah the Lockheed Martian L-100J with just 1 order ☠️

[untold finch]

to be fair a civilian C-130 isn't really what i had in mind

if they applied themselves as much as they did when making the Raptor, they could come up with a semi-competent airliner

[untold finch]

that is most tech/engineering companies nowadays sadly

[shadow burrow]

The Raptor was heavily invested by the US Government tho. And it's not like they would even get the chance in selling those out.

Their last and only good civil aircraft was the L-1011. Lockheed Martin has literally no experience in the civil market

[shadow burrow]

Seems like the best companies are conglomerates

If Lockheed created the L-100J in a way where it had much greater range than it does now (1,400NM and 4000 ferry) it would have been much more successful. The Airbus A400M is an example of what it should be like. Huge range even fully loaded.

Even the Belugas have more range than the L-100

[untold finch]

Right but the Airbus A400M was a brand new platform, the L-100J was based on the very old but upgraded C-130J Hercules

Also the size difference between a Herc and an Atlas is significant

[shadow burrow]

MSFS has done wonders for the flight sim community

[shadow burrow]

Well if it helps the C-130 has almost doubled the range as the L-100

[shadow burrow]

Yes but the Atlas also has 4 of the world's most powerful turboprops

[rustic charm]

Welp…

[hollow oracle]

"sorry sir zhe gate is closed"

[shadow burrow]

was going through my old screenshots and found this gem

[hollow oracle]

so fucking pissed

i spent 2 hours on this flight, only to find out that the approach into frankfurt was completely fucked

lines didnt connect properly or ANYTHING, it was a complete disconnected mess, NAV disconnected, and then trying to hand-fly it didnt work because the turns were really hard to guess visually without getting a bank angle warning

[trim harbor]

The 707 looks so bad

Im actually pained

[rustic charm]

Always good to check the whole route on the display before taxi out, so you can see such stuff in advance and try to fix it

[rustic charm]

Was there a preview or something?

[trim harbor]

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1fol813/welcome_back_fs2002/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1fojbn9/b707_preview_from_microsoft/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[reef isle]

It's so much worse the the Xplane freeware lol

Me and other people have been destroying it on the forums

What a disgrace

[trim harbor]

really 💀

[reef isle]

Yes

[trim harbor]

man i was looking forward to it too

guess ill wait for the xplane 707

[reef isle]

(Not my video)

How does this even happen

[rustic charm]

That gotta be considered some disrespect to the 707

And come on, I was trying to be excited for it too

I thought maybe if they took a big delay it’ll be decent at least

But hell no

I guess we’ll have to wait for the other one

(At least it’s not the only one!)

[trim harbor]

xplane has a decent one coming

[rustic charm]

MSFS should be too iirc

Right found it, by Aerial Simulations. Announced as a year work in progress back in July

[shadow burrow]

Jesus that looks bad. Especially for an event.

The good thing is we also have the Aerial Simulations Boeing 707-320 in development and they are going for fully detailed.
They will also be making these planes too:
B707-120
B707-220
B707-320C
B707-320B
B707-420
B707-020 (B720)
C-135 'Stratolifter'
KC-135A 'Stratotanker'
KC-135R 'Stratotanker'
KC-135T 'Stratotanker'
EC-135
NC-135
OC-135B 'Open Skies'
WC-135 'Constant Phoenix'
RC-135 'Rivet Joint'
E-3 'Sentry'
E-6 'Mercury'
E-8 'Joint Stars'
C-137 'Stratoliner'
CC-137 'Freedom Lifter'
VC-137 'SAM'

Engines:
JT3D / TF33
JT4A / J75
JT8D
RR Conway 508
CFM-56-2A

Just Flight also has the 707 on their radar however they have the A300B4 to complete first and after that the 747 Classic Family which will take them a few years. Other planes they have on their radar are:
Lockheed L-1011
Lockheed C-130 / L-100
Vickers VC-10
Hawker Sidley Trident
BAC-111
BAE Jetstream 21 / 31 / 41
BAE ATP
BAE Nimrod
DeHavellend Comet
Hanley Page Victor
Douglas DC-8
Douglas DC-9

[rustic charm]

JF will be doing us great even with just 1 or 2 of those

L-1011, VC-10, DC-8, DH Comet… yes yes yes

[shadow burrow]

Oh yeah. Especially with how far they've come

Honestly I think that doing the 747 classics is the best thing for them. They are definitely the best team right now to develop them

[echo gorge]

Thay haven't confirmed any of those

[echo gorge]

Do you have a source for all the variants

[tired pond]

After the B4 there's nothing at all about what's being made

[shadow burrow]

The only one out of these that I can see being made is the VC10 since they already have one

Might mate see a trident but I doubt anything else would be done by JF

@reef isle you have the old P3D VC10 don’t you?

[reef isle]

Unfortunately not

[shadow burrow]

Been thinking of spending a week setting up V4 and trying it out

Ah

[reef isle]

I have fsx

[shadow burrow]

Ah right

[reef isle]

And no payware for it

[shadow burrow]

I did used to fly P3D a lot but as soon as 11 dropped I jumped ship

But idk if I have the time to set it up 3-4 times because of the shit state of that sim

[shadow burrow]

It's on the Radar. That doesn't mean it's going to be developed or confirmed it means it's being considered

[echo gorge]

Bruh

Just say you don't know anything when you don't know anything

[shadow burrow]

https://www.justflight.com/articles/p3d-development-halted-for-our-747-classic-and-a300b4200

[shadow burrow]

I'm in close contact with a few of the developers

[echo gorge]

....yeah sure

[naive nova]

This makes me soooo maddddd fuck. It's like freeware quality and MS bestow it the honor of 1st party status. Meanwhile countless other high quality planes go released unnoticed, hidden away by the ever increasing piles of shit on the Marketplace

[shadow burrow]

What are the sounds like on the new 707?

[naive nova]

I read its just copy/paste from 737 lol

[reef isle]

Don't insult freeware like that 😭

[rustic charm]

Well, for the variants, the source is half-there

They did announce the initial release as only -320B Adv and -320C

But also there's this (taken directly from aerial simulations website):

Looking ahead, there are plans to expand the 707 family in Microsoft Flight Simulator. Additional variants are in the pipeline, aiming to cover the diverse range of 707 models that served airlines and military operators around the world. We’ll share more info in the coming months.

So basically, they did not confirm any other than 320BAdv and 320C, but they didn't limit the scope either

[rustic charm]

Okay so call me stupid but I bought the 707

(To be fair, it was 6 quid for me)

It's mostly cause I want an old jet bigger than the Fokker Fellowship

Do I like it? Not really. Will I fly it often? Probably not. Especially not after the 727 pax is out.

[eager moon]

Voting with your wallet telling them this is okay

Good job

[shadow burrow]

😭

[trim harbor]

dont

p3d is the biggest hassle of a simulator

even fsx was easier to set up

[shadow burrow]

Basically yeah. Hence why I just added all of them. It's most likely they would make a KC-135A and R at some point since they are the most common. But I wouldn't be surprised if we see a C-137 or a -420

[rustic charm]

I'm sure you just tilted the camera, but that image really gives off some stall energy

[mild zenith]

true

Finally back after a "summer break"

[shadow burrow]

737 MAX moment

[trim harbor]

@reef isle you'd know this

any good russian airliners out for msfs

currently

or do i still have to go back to xp11 for the 154

[reef isle]

Only AN225 is ok

[rustic charm]

To be fully honest that one isn’t Russian either. But if you’re looking for just post-Soviet, yeah, it’s pretty much the only one

And I heard that the flight model on that thing is jank

So yeah, for anything other than a single-built prototype, you’d have to go to other sims. MSFS only gets FSX ports otherwise.

[shadow burrow]

It flys like an A320

Feels like it at least

It’s not nearly as heavy as it should be

[rustic charm]

I don’t have it myself, but I’ve seen videos of it doing some very short takeoffs and landings, so it definitely seems to be too light and too powerful

[trim harbor]

quite unfortunate really

[rustic charm]

Yeah

[trim harbor]

xplane 12 is having the same issues

both IL76 and TU154 is xp11 only

which is a bummer

[shadow burrow]

enhanced skyscapes is all you need for 11

plus a global mesh

feeling like flying the jar a330 today

[trim harbor]

you brave soul

[shadow burrow]

nah its not that bad tbf

GH works well

systems are ok ish

modeling looks ok

[shadow burrow]

No good russian airliners but here are these
Sukhoi SU-27
Mikoyan Gurevitch MIG-21
Antonov AH-225
Yakovlev Yak-130
Antonov AH-2

and these are in development
Sukhoi SU-95 Superjet 100
Tupolev TU-134
Mil Mi-24

[rustic charm]

Well we technically do already have a Superjet

A freeware one at that too

But I've heard it's not good

Also, who's developing the 134?

[shadow burrow]

Yes but it's still in development

[shadow burrow]

Some Polish guy haven't heard from them in over a year

[trim harbor]

u forgot the 154

well guess i'll install xp11

[rustic charm]

There's a 154 in dev too?

[static mango]

I'm hoping with 2024 they can integrate the whole Online ATC thing to xbox (forgot the name)

[shadow burrow]

Who's developing the T154 for msfs?
And is it at TU-154 or TU-154M?

[trim harbor]

for atleast 2 years now

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1flw4fn/tu154m_wip_approach_and_landing_manual/

basing it off of the xplane 154 with felis' permission

it's a single person working on it and they've taken breaks in between for obvious reasons

[rustic charm]

Welp, a 154 would be wonderful. Hope the person finishes it eventually

[shadow burrow]

WHAT IS THAT 😭😭😭😭

[trim harbor]

wonderful

[trim harbor]

it's freeware

and 1 person working on it

i really don't see an issue

[shadow burrow]

It's not gonna be good then

[shadow burrow]

Those are just clouds

[rustic charm]

Well, clouds, bit of rain maybe

Not a storm, so it's fine

Tbh for me usually rain isn't even the concern, it's all about visibility

[trim harbor]

crazy to assume that just ahead of that really

felis worked on his stuff mostly alone and his 747 is really good

[rustic charm]

Out of 9 airports I fly frequently to/from, only 4 can be autolanded or even have straight in ILS. The other 5 all require visual guidance and a lot of hand-flight input

[shadow burrow]

Yes however visual details are easier to pull off in those simulators.

Msfs is completely different

[reef isle]

Out of all this list the An-2 is the only one I'd fly tbh

[reef isle]

I don't know but they posted an update fairly recently to Reddit (a few weeks ago IIRC)

[reef isle]

what are you talking about?

Like yeah, some things are easier to develop in Xplane

But details and 3D models are definitely aren't one of them

The MD-82 and the PMDG 737 work and look perfectly fine in MSFS even if they have their roots in P3D

And yeah, probably the flight model won't be as good, but that's just MSFS for you 🤷‍♂️

But it's not going to look any worse than Xplane

Look at any FSX conversion, it's not like they look worse on MSFS compared to FSX because "visual details are easier to pull off in those simulators"

[hollow oracle]

damn, they really redid the runway arrangement at denver

[rustic charm]

FSX conversion in MSFS look the same as in FSX

Cause nothing's changed

[reef isle]

Yeah 😄

[rustic charm]

That's the point

[reef isle]

The whole simulator and render engine is overall better, so the whole things is going to look prettier, but the model and texturing are the same

It's certainly not going to look worse because developing for MSFS is hard

[rustic charm]

The reason why they "look worse" is because you have more modern stuff to compare with. Like, put an FSX plane against an FSX plane, absolutely fair. Put an FSX conversion against the Fenix, most likely it will look worse than Fenix

[reef isle]

Yeah but that's just a psychological effect that has nothing to do with developing a plane for MSFS

[rustic charm]

But that's the thing in any game (series) that's evolving

[rustic charm]

Exactly

[rustic charm]

Also this is lovely

Some things I wish the Soviet Union didn't do just as "We're better than the west" and actually put effort into and made better quality.

And I say that as someone who is not a big fan of supersonic aviation overall as an idea and as someone who actually prefers the conventional wing rather than the delta wing

[shadow burrow]

my brother in christ

[trim harbor]

no offense

that's probably the most retarded shit i've heard

in a while

[shadow burrow]

I'm trying to come up with a comparison to how dumb this is

but I can't

If its a good model its a good model

doesn't matter what sim its from or you port it to

[trim harbor]

tell me u know nothing about aircraft development without actually saying it

crazy

[rustic charm]

Exactly

I mean

You make a plane for FSX

You put that model into Train Simulator

It’s gonna have exactly same details

You put it into BeamNG Drive

It’s gonna have exactly same details

Same with any other game. Well, probably other than tetris

[shadow burrow]

take the InI A310, the model is ripped from xp. It doesn't look bad compared to the fenix or the PMDG

[rustic charm]

The Ini 310 actually looks wonderful imo

[shadow burrow]

just as in XP it looks good compared to most other aircraft

[rustic charm]

Didn’t know the model was from XP tbh

[shadow burrow]

I would also argue that you have it the other way round

P3D and XP don't have nearly as much lighting and shading applied to them by default

[shadow burrow]

It is also very well modelled and a fun to fly plane.

MSFS does all that shit out the box

in theory its easier to hide a bad model under the lighting and shader system in MSFS

[trim harbor]

look at bredok 3d

or AH 707

loo

[rustic charm]

Don’t get me started on that

[shadow burrow]

the LVFR 342 is the same where if you take time to actually study the model you can quite clearly tell its not a great model of the aircraft

but it still looks great specifically because of MSFS's post production systems

[trim harbor]

[rustic charm]

Model might look fine at first, but I am convinced it’s absolutely fucked internally. Like, it gotta have some unholy unwrap and stuff, can tell cause of the way the paint is on.

And I looked at just the Pan Am livery, one which is basically 2 colours, a simple stripe, so such stuff is not gonna be too visible

Yet somehow you can still clearly see it’s fucked up

[shadow burrow]

That is actually the case. Msfs has much more in depth capabilities. Especially when it comes to lighting and optimisation. There is technically no limit to how far you can go but there is a lot more that can be simulated at once, especially in the new simulator. But in general lighting is probably the biggest thing that makes msfs different to xplane visually, it's a massively more complex lighting engine and it will show every detail.

what

[echo gorge]

Uhh

[shadow burrow]

love this guy

[trim harbor]

i'd honestly say that xplane is more indepth

[rustic charm]

I wouldn’t doubt that, in terms of flight model abilities certainly. Just because MSFS is trying to both be a simulator and to appeal to more arcade players

[trim harbor]

https://fixupx.com/emirates/status/1839199723082658230

[wide zenith]

Every plane i've flown in msfs feels the same, can't say that for xp11

[trim harbor]

the planes handle awful in msfs

[rustic charm]

I mean, I can’t really say they all feel the same, because I’ve flown… 4 planes I think

And those are a giant triple, 2 73s and a tiny Fokker

[hollow oracle]

beyondatc is so awesome

it put me on a departure runway with a perpendicular 8kt crosswind

i took off and i was like "wait this doesnt feel right" and it was extremely unstable

[echo gorge]

At den? That's pretty normal

[hollow oracle]

there are literally runways for all of the directions

you have more experience than me, but i have my doubts that 8kts of crosswind for takeoff is normal

[rustic charm]

8kts of crosswind ain’t too much tbh

[hollow oracle]

it was enough at first to make me almost strike the wingtip on the runway, i guess i wasnt expecting it

[rustic charm]

Also it really just depends on which runways are active and stuff

[hollow oracle]

this was also in a boeing, which i have quarter of the experience in compared to airbus, which could have also been a factor

[rustic charm]

It’s probably just because you weren’t expecting the crosswind

[hollow oracle]

im happy it happened on takeoff atleast, i could bail on the flight with no real issues

i hate when things go wrong just during approach or landing, thats the entire flight ruined

[rustic charm]

Eh, for me it depends on how wrong it goes

[hollow oracle]

true

[rustic charm]

A goaround is not a problem mostly. A diversion isn’t welcome but isn’t an issue either. A hard landing? That’s not too bad.

Though if I land off the runway, or don’t have enough braking distance so end up past the runway, or anything of the sort, that is a flight ruined indeed

[hollow oracle]

im a perfectionist, good example being the fucked up arrival i had in frankfurt the other day, i could have saved it, but it would have looked extremely yucky on volanta, so there was no point in trying to save it

[rustic charm]

Eh, I don’t like having waves on the flight path or anything, but I’m not as critical

I won’t stop a flight unless I’m on the ground

So if it’s fucked up, I’m still gonna try to save it. Like that time I did a flight to Juneau but the visibility was so bad I couldn’t see the approach lights when a mile out from the airport. The missed approach was a roller coaster and I had almost crashed into the mountains several times (I came close enough to actually see the trees. In visibility still that bad) but I still take the plane all the way to Yakutat as an alternative, cause you gotta get it on the ground.

[hollow oracle]

i take advantage of the fact that its a simulator, and that i make mistakes that pilots would never make, to just completely kill a flight

simulators are for leaning, and that means making unrecoverable mistakes

[echo gorge]

At den irl they'll frequently land into the headwind and depart from the crosswind runways, 8 knots for that seems pretty normal

[hollow oracle]

its been a long time since i last flew the inibuilds A320neo

definitely laggier than the FBW A32NX, but i feel like the tradeoffs are a little bit more worth it, you get a full interior, some nicer systems

very obviously ive never flown an A320neo irl, so i cant comment on any accuracy stuff

[hollow oracle]

i forgot that florida is in a hurricane right now

[shadow burrow]

I landed in KMIA gusting 34kts literally blew me off the runway in the MD-11

[hollow oracle]

orlando looks okay, weather but not extreme

i may cheat and set the weather to something that i can land in, navigraph is showing 17kts of crosswind

gusts of 43kts

[shadow burrow]

Tower told me that an A320 got blown into the firehouse on landing. I said people don't know how to land nowadays, I got blown into the terminals.

[naive nova]

It's even more difficult than it looks.

I set up the screenshot, but I did manage to make it thru one pole with an Xbox controller 🙂

[hollow oracle]

fuck the inibuilds a320neo

i go to land, doesnt capture glideslope (frequency seemed to be set incorrectly), aircraft hits too slow of a speed and goes into TOGA, trying to fix it puts it into an uncontrolled climb in autopilot

autothrottle is not working, its climbing at random

is there some special procedure you have to do with the landing minimums set in the approach page? both times ive set minimums, this has happened, im not sure if its a coincidnce or if im juts missing something

im 0-2 on flights today

[hollow oracle]

i had issues with VNAV the whole way down too, it would not stick with the VNAV path even though it was showing everything like it was, it would just hit an altitude and float, change between altitudes at random, wouldnt even automatically follow airspeed limits either

it should follow the green dot all the way down the VNAV path, but i think its fake on the inibuilds one, just a display that makes it look like its following it

the manual says it works but it really did not feel like it, i was manually setting my vertical speed most of the time

my confidence is just wrecked today, i dont think i can attempt another flight

[alpine coral]

Will this be happening for America?

[shadow burrow]

Minimums don’t affect approach, minimums are just the altitude in which you decide if you are landing or going around.

[hollow oracle]

Every time I set up the minimums, it has always ended up in a go around and completely breaking the systems

[shadow burrow]

That’s implausible because minimums aren’t linked to the autopilot nor the auto throttle

[hollow oracle]

I wasn’t sure if it needed acknowledged or something

[shadow burrow]

nope

[hollow oracle]

actually, i struck out on flights

two flights today didnt work out, and the flight before that on tuesday didnt either

[naive nova]

3D tracks yes, station platforms and overhead wires no. Got to wait for 2024 to release it because it needs DX12, with DX11 the sim dies in places like Zurich HB.

[alpine coral]

Gotcha, looking forward to it 👍

[vocal sequoia]

Back to 80s

[reef isle]

Yeah, something you can't say about any other plane on that list 😛

[reef isle]

What? Is this just a word salad? I don't understand what you mean.

I think you're talking about Xplane? Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons Xplane is used more in the professional space, it's a lot more free and you can do stuff more easily for it.

[shadow burrow]

There is a reason you don’t have aviation schools booting up MSFS on there 500k simulator for a Cessna 172

It’s either XP11/10 or if it’s really old P3Dv1

[reef isle]

Yep 😄

MSFS looks good, and has some nice addons, but Xplane will always have its place IMO.

I actually think they complement each other fairly well

[shadow burrow]

A good way to do it is to look at the countless videos on XP’s dataref

No other sim has a system like that

Any signal from inside the aircraft if modelled can be registered and outputted

Eg: you have button for battery irl, you have a failure of said battery, the sim then sends data to the physical switch to show up a warn, or a fail light

Really useful for home or simulator cockpits

[trim harbor]

do not tell that to the reddit flightsim community

HOW DARE YOU say that another flight simulator has the right to exist alongside OUR HOLY MSFS!

msfs made the community even more cancer than it was before

which is sad

this is even more cringe than "apple is better than android" or "playstation over xbox"

[trim harbor]

this - and msfs will probably never come close

xplane (and p3d) were most likely made more in mind of a professional setting while msfs were made purely for the enjoyment

[shadow burrow]

And that’s fine I wanna note, I don’t have any issues with MSFS I think it’s good and looks fantastic. But discrediting other sims every chance u get by saying “MSFS better when it clearly isn’t is retarded

[untold finch]

AN-225 is legitimately good imo

The more flightsims, the merrier, imo

The only thing that loses is my wallet

What we really need is a proper combat flight sim that:

• is of high fidelity
• has thought put in to the aircraft selection
• isn't based on a mountain of spaghetti code from the 90s
• isn't a ponzi scheme to fund the owner's warbird hobby

[trim harbor]

the last one l m a o

so damn true

bms is the most promising

[untold finch]

It is fantastic, just wish we could have something with somewhat modern graphics and UX, and with helicopters

[trim harbor]

i was gonna just say something about helis

i really want a proper heli sim

[untold finch]

I do miss flying the Hind

[trim harbor]

dcs feels the most realistic to me but alot of people say that torq esp is overdone

i wouldnt know though, i've never flown a heli irl

[trim harbor]

just be happy u didnt buy into the chinook

dcs became so bad im sad

[untold finch]

I've only flown an R-22, which of course isn't in DCS, so there's not a lot to compare there other than the basics

[reef isle]

Yeah, I think that was the one I suggested, then he added random stuff like the Su-27 (🤮)

[untold finch]

I can't claim to know when it'll die off, but it does feel like something has shifted over the last year; there was a big flareup of anger around Razbam, but now people just seem to be quietly abandoning the game in bigger numbers. When you've got folks being passionate that's a good sign that there's still a community that cares, even if the dev is making mistakes, but it seems like nobody really cares at this point, it's just become expected that ED are going to fuck up

[untold finch]

That's the DC Designs one right? That's one of his latest products iirc, I wonder if it's any better than his older stuff

[reef isle]

It is yeah

No reason to believe it's better than any of this other stuff

[untold finch]

You'd have to hope he'd learned a thing or two over the past years 😉

[shadow burrow]

https://store.x-plane.org/Rotate-MD-11-Passenger_p_1945.html

@trim harbor

4 years give or take

[trim harbor]

has there been any inhouse ED release (yes i know EA) that hsnt been a) a bug fest b) just straight up shit because it's missing 95% of the features?

no

and eds horrible communication and somewhat suppression of speech isnt helping

[untold finch]

iirc the Hind was pretty good on release

black shark 3 had a fair few bugs, including their fancy new INS system which drifted way more than it should have

[trim harbor]

the chinook was terrible
the f16 was terrible
the trighanistan idea is absolutely mad horrible

[trim harbor]

i forgot to add recently

apologies

i feel like they're abusing the term of "EA" too much - yes people want a product, yes people wanna fly it asap

that doesnt mean that u have to release it in such an unfinished state

i think that alot of people (me included) would rather wait a year more but have a decent product at launch that you can actually use and enjoy

and not say "coming later in EA" that could mean a few months to a few years

same with all the promised AI changes

sad that dcs is our only real choice of proper combat flight sim out there

thats why i have my money set on bms once it gets more aircraft really

[echo gorge]

Honestly at this point my main gripe with dcs is just performance, sure it looks stunning, but when you get so many stutters even on very high end hardware I just end up wishing it looked worse and ran well

The razbam thing was a real kick in the teeth though, the 23 was the upcoming aircraft I was most interested in

Bms doesn't look as good, but it runs like a dream and they've finally managed to add additional cockpits, I can't wait for the bms fulcrum

[rustic charm]

Released yesterday actually I think

Seems rather nice

[reef isle]

Eh, when it comes to this kind of addons I don't think they don't know better, I think they just found their optimal amount of workload to maximise profit

[untold finch]

yeah, fair point

[dusky leaf]

So the new rotate MD11 do you get a discount on the freighter if you own the pax version? I dont do airliners, just curious

[rustic charm]

Yes

Well, idk for sure the numbers

But a mate of mine had the freighter and bought the pax one upon release, he only had to pay 34.95 instead of 83.95

[trim harbor]

Jesus

$35??

I thought it‘s a free patch

[rustic charm]

Nope

An additional version

[trim harbor]

That‘s a really bad price

Though I understand

[rustic charm]

To be fair it's never a free patch. TFDi also asks you for 10 on top for 'the one you don't have'

[trim harbor]

10 is acceptable

$35 for a plane I technically already own is mad to me

[rustic charm]

And I won't even start with PMDG. 777 is 75, the freighter is gonna be another 75

[trim harbor]

I pray not

Although you‘re right sadly

[rustic charm]

Lowest they'll go for might be like around 40, but that's for the less used variants probably. The freighter is most likely gonna be full price

[trim harbor]

Actual pain

Idk if I can justify the 772 tbhh

777F is my personal fav so I‘ll prob cope but man

Inb4 they‘ll sell LR and ER seperate like in P3d

Tough

[rustic charm]

Oh most likely that will happen

[trim harbor]

I hate pmdg so much

Istg

Their products are (imo) barely better than mid

Comparable to the fenix e.g (which us cheaper)

[rustic charm]

I love the planes, I hate the company and their pricing policies

[trim harbor]

That

RR laughing from his private jet

Lemme tell you that

[rustic charm]

Fenix is what, 80 quid all together? That's just a bit more than what the 77W alone costs

[trim harbor]

And you get way more

[rustic charm]

It's not really a jet aye? xD

[trim harbor]

Nono

Pmdg really has a private jet

[rustic charm]

Well I knew they had a DC-3, didn't know a jet

[trim harbor]

https://preview.redd.it/pmdg-da50-livery-is-beautiful-v0-m2xr636lao1d1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=cd2838c744cc3a19c8c9f255b0054236d6f18e92

Im not kidding btw

[rustic charm]

So they do indeed have one lol

I didn't know that

[trim harbor]

I own 0.0001% of that plane

W my 777 purchase

[rustic charm]

I own 0.0003% I guess, with the 77W, 737 and 738?

[mild zenith]

GSX NEW: Option to connect Pushback tug during Boarding, saving time on Departure. The option will show as an additional menu request, which defaults to “No” if no choice is made within a few seconds. A new option in the settings “Connect Pushback on Boarding” will Skip the request menu, always assuming a “Yes” reply.

[trim harbor]

I forgot about those

[rustic charm]

Going for KEWR - KBOS

[rustic charm]

Descending into KBOS

[hollow oracle]

https://youtu.be/oSJdTRA9QlE?si=Nkqok_KPWX6K1TXv

guy on the left makes me want to cry

guy on the right is pilot flying, yet he's micromanaging literally everything

[hollow oracle]

that is REALLY strange

im flying into incheon intl and the nav data for it is completely mismatched

im supposed to land 16L with the GUKDO2H STAR, and neither are in the MCDU

i only have 15L/R and 33L/R, and GUKDO1A and KARB1A STARs

nav data is up to date, 2409 is installed

oh wtf, the MSFS airport is literally missing two whole runways

neither runway is new or anything either, its just straight up missing

[echo gorge]

If it's a default airport when was the runway added?

The defaults don't have changes after 2020