Delete me

[fair hare]

About Lunchbox

I think fort isn't supposed to have sockets

[stone stag]

Thats not going to happen, would affect drastically PvE.

Also, with the latest Bucky spam removing Aegis is dumb.

[distant atlas]

And again bro cooked but no one wants to eat🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[fair hare]

it's dumb to keep it too

it's considered a counter vs helix

so helix becomes useless

[stone stag]

Aegis work on small maps only.
1 Aegis is not enough for Helix.
Helix as same as Striker can bait the enemy to leave the Aegis range.

[fair hare]

@stone stag actually it doesn't really matter cos you can't even push right now

balance is in terrible state

I believe you need to be able to make a move

not just make a bunch on units in one place

Aegis doesn't really help to make this game better, overall

it's in favor of turtling

[tall mirage]

I mean I guess Aegis could shoot down missiles slower so you'd need more then one or two but I don't really think that bad. Helix is also really good at transport which can be very powerful if you can maneuver your troops right and can shoot normal bullets until the Aegis is destroyed so I think it's hard of a counter

[uneven saddle]

I'd rather helix missile just be immune to aegis then to remove aegis. It just seems like a simpler solution. That or give helix rapid missile loader as default.

[royal locust]

lolwut

[finite compass]

I think you used wrong word.

Fort is supposed to have sockets. Devs did them.

It should not have them in your opinion, but saying "not supposed" is incorrect (in my opinion 🤣)

[finite compass]

Yeah yeah make in impenetrable flying fortress on boosters. Do you even know how many aegis you have to move around with you just to counter helix? 3!!!

Now you build them instead of tanks or something else just to save yourself from deadly omniscent helix missiles. Helix can just build 3 more units to defeat your aegis and the whole cluster. So it balances itself out

[uneven saddle]

I legitimately don't get this take. Aegis basically just reduces total incoming missile damage. Let's say Aegis shoots down 3/10 Helix missiles that would have hit you, that's a 30% damage reduction. If it shoots down 6/10, that's a 60% reduction.
If in order to get 100% damage reduction, you need 3, I don't see how you can pitch that as being not worth credits (as if you even need 100% reduction, come on) especially since it works on other meta units like seekers and buckies. You're basically trading credits for a Helix damage reduction in a small area. Imagine doing that for any other mech.
Also, what is stopping a helix from upgrading carry cap instead and dropping 3 flakkers or seekers on you? Both do more damage faster than missiles. What is stopping every mech from doing that besides carrying cap?

To clarify on the missile loader thing, I just meant for the missiles to shoot twice as fast for like 50% damage. Aegis would still shoot down the same number of missiles, but more would get through obviously. But in theory, Aegis shouldn't need to exist for missile related stuff to be balanced.

[finite compass]

Not sure if you agree with me or not. But in case you don't - once again, when you buy aegis - you don't buy something else and lose economically.

Simply speaking - two blobs of units. I buy aegis, helix buy tanks. Helix push and wins simply having more firepower.

The stuff is balanced as is.

[uneven saddle]

I don't agree 😦 . My point was that you're paying credits for a localized damage reduction against a mech's strongest tool. If you place 1 aegis and move it around your units and move between unit clumps, you're moving the damage reduction. I'm saying it's worth the investment since it will never not have utility against the mech. It's like building HAAT against a neo or saucer and moving it between clumps. The only mech who comes close to "needing" ageis is Angel. More people are bringing ageis than ever before. Most people didn't even bring it because it was a waste of a slot. I at least would want the 2x fire rate and half damage thing since more people are bringing it. But in the end, aegis shouldn't need to exist for helix to be balanced, it basically didn't exist when almost no one brought it.

[tall mirage]

For anyone reading and do not know the pricings off the top of their head, here

Aegis = 3,000
Lornhorn = 7,000 - Armadillo = 4,400 -Rebel Tank = 2,700
Bucky = 2,600 - Seekers 7,000

[finite compass]

I've been bringing up aegis long before reboot happend. Simply because your so called helix tool completely disabled my striker sword tool (and angel as well), so sorry, your argument is invalid.

Now again, please take a look at your own words where you say aegis is local. So when helix go anywhere else - there is no aegis.

And you completely IGNORED twice my argument about aegis vs tanks. While i build aegis - helix build something else. When i used aegis against helix i kept losing them as well as my unit cluster, because helix need no aegis while i do.

So you build them, yet still getting SOLID damage from helix missiles, you keep losing aegis because helix handpicks them and getting swarmed by helix units because helix don't waste time building aegis.

So please, again, when you say stuff, please account for time/money you spend on aegis and how fragile it is, instead of simply repeating your own argument twice.

[tall mirage]

For anyone reading who does not know the health (HP) and armor (AR) of units off the top of their head, here

Aegis = 750HP 45AR
Lornhorn = 1,300HP 85AR - Armadillo = 950HP 65AR -Rebel Tank = 720HP 55AR
Bucky = 580HP 40AR - Seekers 1150HP 70AR

[uneven saddle]

That same argument could be made for osprey, you spend more money on healing that they don't have too. That and 3000-9000 credits being the difference between reduce effectiveness of Helix's ability or negating it entirely is insane. A Ratchet cost 3900, for every healing unit you place, an osprey saves money for a tank. You could make that argument for saucer abduct as well as its saving money as well. If you want to go farther, you could say Lexi striker is saving money on AA, because of much DPS it does. I don't think it's a good argument. 😦

[tall mirage]

Costs of healing units are (RPS Repair Per Second)
Patcher = 2,200 for 40 RPS - Ratchet = 3,900 for 45 RPS - Honeypot = 5,000 for 60 RPS

With some testing in sandbox mode I have found that two Buckys are barely able to overpower a aegis. Three being able to semi-consistently overpower it and four being overkill

[finite compass]

I see zero arguments about INSANITY of REDUCING helix damage. Helix missiles are strong and aegis have local effect.

With same arguments you could say arty reduces efficiency of osprey overheal shield. Well let's remove any arty because it reduces osprey lol.

For saucer yiu are absolutely correct. You spend money on AA on whole map while saucer could abduct and build tanks. Same for striker is ENTIRELY correct. Should we remove anti air because it reduces efficiency of the mech you love so much?

Often i used aegis against blob of seekers btw

Because it's insane how much aa people build

[uneven saddle]

Helix's missiles killing your mech is only relevant to places your mech is, that is why localized damage reduction is so strong. You can basically pick a place on the map where you would have died and live. I haven't seen a Helix player use ground missiles since reboot, so that isn't relevant here as well. So you're spending 3000-9000 credits to make any place you want safe which is likely going to be the front lines. Also, you can't say artillery negates osprey when osprey does the best in artillery wars. The closest you can come to "negating" osprey is to build seekers and air guns so they die. But seekers have their damage reduced by aegis, so that doesn't help the point. Saucer's abduct is relent anywhere AA is isn't, and is relevant even if you haven't placed a single unit because of neutrals. Also if anything, osprey over shield negates heavy mines literally, which people complain about during Strike with light unit follow spam. But obviously, oversheild wasn't the problem, it was follow command and autodeploy.

Also again, what is stopping other mechs from dropping 3 flakkers or 2 seekers next to someone on the ground when it does more damage than helix missiles.

[finite compass]

Lol helix kills you at your own outpost surrounded by your own units. Helix kills you when you go backdropping, helix kills you when you cheese, helix kills you when you sniping and swording. Sorry, helix missiles are ALWAYS relevant. And aegis do only LOCAL reduction at cost+build time, and is fragile.

I said arty negates osprey overhealing, please stop attributing me what i didn't say.

I will tell you what's stopping dropping 3 flakkers/2 seekers - carry cost and locality. Helix is flying anti air with hyge missiles damage, helix attacks you even when you are over your outpost surrounded by cluster of units. No seeker/flakkers would survive that, and none of them is airborn and as fast as helix.

[tall mirage]

bro I think at this point y'all just need to 1v1 and of you needs to play as helix 💀

[uneven saddle]

Okay but that is just a skill issue. I get kills on people over their outpost with 3 flakkers on paladin even if they have units around. The attack aura makes them do too much damage, and you can't use aegis to save yourself either. Same thing with striker dropping 2 flakkers plus air guns and after burner to get away. But besides that, if your getting killed in your own unit clump at an outpost, technically all mechs can do that if there isn't AA to stop them by dropping AA and microing it.

My strat is I use Samson paladin and place a unit like shooters, when a person lands next to them, I drop 3 flakkers plus attack aura to kill. I literally only started doing that when I realized it did more DPS then helix missles with less energy without aura. That is legit why I don't play helix anymore lmao. Why would I use something you can counter so easily and does less DPS, when I can use something that is stronger that can't be anywhere as easily? You're even using less energy dropping AA and mircoing AA. I think attack aura does more damage then like level 1 helix missiles or 2 helix missiles plus 3 flakkers, but I don't remember. I even started doing the strat with Lexi striker sometimes because air dps is better then helix, and you don't have to pause between shooting missiles and air guns and the flakkers make the air to ground missiles dps more or comparable too.

[finite compass]

Inability to play against aegis is skill issue.

[uneven saddle]

🙃 Fair, but I do more damage with paladin and flakkers, so saying the damage is op on helix doesn't make sense to me. Why do 0% damage when I can do +150% helix's damage?

[finite compass]

This is a logical fallacy. If you do more damage on paladin it does not prove helix missiles are weak.

You don't do 0% damage with aegis, aegis reduces damage

This is another sofism from your side just to prove your point

[uneven saddle]

Well I choose boosted damage over reduced damage, it is what it is. Paladin has more perks that can't be countered by aegis then helix. AOE hammer, Statis, passive aura on all units and mech, more armor, higher base carry cap, shield on ground, ult that lets you live ult missiles. My point is, why would I choose to be potentially countered/nerfed by aegis, when I can choose not too with other perks.
Why do 0-100% damage when I can do +150% helix's damage with other perks?

^Stronger air guns with aura too. I even forgot the aura makes teammates in 2v2 stronger too. If everyone you run into brings aegis, then it is to some degree true that your missiles are weak, as you locally do less damage every game its present.

[finite compass]

Aegis is in no way canceling helix. You first have to prove your point.

[tall mirage]

🍿

[tall mirage]

.

[finite compass]

You can't drop aegis everywhere, it takes time and money to build them, and they are kinda easy to destroy.

And for some reason you forgot helix is not only helix missiles

[uneven saddle]

The way people talk about helix, you'd think all it has is missiles as an ability. But, I already considered the other abilities and general stats when discussing it in comparison to paladin. Basically just dismissing it in the same way everyone else does, lmao.

Anyway, if your using it for carry weight or build, then your missiles are weaker anyway. So I don't get your point. Less levels put into missiles makes them less effective, which is the same thing aegis does.

And dropping and microing AA is easier with more carry weight, and you know the rest.

You need level 1 carry ability for it to be worst then paladin with Unstable Higgs. 2 for it to be better.

Only after 3 points can you even carry to a point where its game changing, as you'll quickly pick up 4 longhorns with booster, and Unstable Higgs.

Also, it takes time and money to build everything 😦. Some mechs spend more time and credit then others like with the saucer and osprey example. Aegis is cheaper then the money those save.

[finite compass]

The way you talk about aegis sounds like aegis absolutely cancels helix. It is invalid.

I already told you - you simply cannot drop AA in enemy cluster and it does not follow you and enemy mech when you both fly away. Meanwhile helix can chase you with air speed having deadly missiles, so dropping units is nowhere as viable as helix missiles.

Aegis is not cheaper than no aegis. I build 3 aegis because helix have devastating effect on any of my movements, and helix build tanks killing my cluster.

[crimson spoke]

aegis is not a problem

also yes zapskam is good at dropping aa near the enemy and killing them

he gets kills with flakker and paladin

helix is still good even when someone does aegis spam

[uneven saddle]

Oh, I'll clarify. If saucer is on chasm and abducts one longhorn and one T45, it saves 10500. Even if it spent 9000 on 3 aegis (which why would it, it has blink to get away from missile kills), its still up credit and unit wise.

It only cancels helix when helix does 0 damage. Other then that its a localized damage reduction as I said. That's why I suggested the fire rate change and damage. You never even said if you're for or against that.

Also for context, what mech are we even talking about in these instances? It has to be everything other than saucer and striker since they escape the easiest.

Also, you don't mean me when you say "wouldn't drop them in a cluster." If I don't see a gatty or tesla and the person is ground below 75%, I drop 3 flakkers behind the tanks and fish for a kill. The DPS with paladin aura is so high I can justify dropping 3 flakkers for 2 seconds and then picking them back up. If I see the kill I go for it. Also, I already said the DPS is high enough to kill over outpost so idk.

Also it isn't that it makes helix useless, it more so, "why am I playing this mech?" And the reasons I can think of are all (sadly) fulfilled by paladin for me.

[finite compass]

I fail to see why even further nerfing aegis. You already need 3 to have kind of cancelling effect. Now what? You want me to build 4 now just to stop helix missile spam? I also fail to see you reasoning when you COMPLETELY ignore time component. Time saucer spent on abducting is time saucer has positions without mech. Same with aegis, time i spent babysitting them is time i lost on advancing/building something else. They are also fragile.

You paladin AA argument does not mean we should get rid of aegis.

[finite compass]

You can play whatever mech you like. Helix is op and aegis is balanced.

[fair hare]

Helix is useless

[fair hare]

you need only in the mid, though

[fair hare]

How often you play with Helix? lol

of course it's not a problem for you

😁

[fair hare]

This is not true O)>

[fair hare]

Actually, Aegis cancels Helix main abilities

[fair hare]

impossible to destroy in the composition

[fair hare]

but you know what helix can and what he can't O)> Helix is pretty slow mech

you won't let him kill you in most cases

Also, transforming at enemy teritory is a huge risk to die overall

not only because of helix O)>

[crimson spoke]

I used to play a lot of helix

I would play this helix more if there was no delay from firing missiles to firing gun

[finite compass]

Not really

[finite compass]

Nope

[finite compass]

This is not true

[finite compass]

No it does not. People manage to kill me on the ground even when i am guarded by two aegis.

[finite compass]

It is easily fixed by boosters. Double helix on boosters is also insane

[finite compass]

Yeah and that's a problem. But not aegis question anyway

[tall mirage]

🍿

[tall mirage]

why do you keep putting "O)>"? is it a bird? a face?

[fair hare]

on most maps yeah

because it's the place where forces are concentrated

[fair hare]

true O)/ Helix is a total bs right now

Xca5 doesn't even use Helix

because it's bad

[fair hare]

it was insane when Helix had stronger missile burst

right now helix ultimate is useless

[fair hare]

actually it's related to your point that you can die while harashing by helix

you will adjust to helix

depends of your mech

so your point is false O)>

Hog Air to ground it's pretty insane right now

[finite compass]

Not really

[finite compass]

That is correct and it is in no way proves your point

[fair hare]

It depends of a mech but most important fight is happening in the mid, though

[finite compass]

Having primary ability of your mech completely blocked does not prove we need to remove aegis. It does exact opposite.

[finite compass]

If you can't land to helix it simply proves my point

[fair hare]

Remove Helix then

[finite compass]

Until any cheese you should do

[fair hare]

:D

[finite compass]

Why remove if we have aegis? Balanced as it is

[fair hare]

because it's useless mech right now

[finite compass]

How so?

[fair hare]

it is very weak compared to others

slow

Helix missile burst does almost no dmg

primary abikity is blocked easily

4 loadouts = counter to almost everything

we played 2v2 yesterday and picked Helix just to get disadvantage

Angel has avoid any dmg ability in the air

Hog has OP air to ground + Air dmg

Paladin is armored

just buy defence aura

Osprey is able to heal from the Air

Neo is invisible

Bomber has bombs and mantis does buff to armor, right?

Striker has shield

and after burner

there is basically no mech who would suffer by Helix missiles

without the possibility to survive

depends how to use it

[finite compass]

Boosters

[fair hare]

what If I don't have it in my loadout?

[finite compass]

Not easily and blocked only in limited are and also fragile

[fair hare]

why to rely on the unit?

limited area O)/

but you can micro

[finite compass]

What if helix is not in your loadout? What if you don't build any units? So many questions

[finite compass]

Why people use aegis? Why rely on unit?

[tall mirage]

this thread needs to be deleted

[fair hare]

What do you mean by no helix in my loadout? :D

[finite compass]

You ask what if you don't have boosters in loadout. I ask, what if you picked some other mech? Then you can't play helix

[fair hare]

so you basically tell to use other mechs?

because helix is useless

[finite compass]

No i nullify your argument

[finite compass]

Proofs?

[tall mirage]

Striker and Saucer have movement options

[fair hare]

What proofs you need? : )

just play the game

[finite compass]

I replied to your arguments and see no others

[fair hare]

every active player knows helix is useless

noone even use it

[finite compass]

This is not an argument, you have to specify why

[fair hare]

your points are about nothing man

[finite compass]

People also didn't use follow for so long and then suddenly started to exploit it

[tall mirage]

opinion

[finite compass]

your points are about nothing man

[fair hare]

I specified O)>

[fair hare]

not opinion but logical sense

[finite compass]

I replied to each

[finite compass]

Opinion.

[tall mirage]

Opinion.

[fair hare]

you replied with some sort of bs

[fair hare]

ok O)> so what?

[tall mirage]

So its not facts

[fair hare]

what exactly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbCY98BszXc&t=453s

[tall mirage]

.

[fair hare]

test of Aegis

comparison of missile burst for helix and striker

[finite compass]

That is opinion and not an argument.

[fair hare]

Meta is when people use the most useful things in the game

[fair hare]

you said to use booster

[finite compass]

Yes because it's efficient

[fair hare]

why I can't use booster with stronger mechs?

hog as example

[finite compass]

Use booster with stronger meches

[fair hare]

Why you are even discussing>

?

you aren't active player

[finite compass]

Why you?

[fair hare]

cos Im active

[finite compass]

Is there active players? How many hours i have to wait to get a match?

[finite compass]

You were absent for a long

[fair hare]

yes, there are active players

[finite compass]

Still does not explain why i can't get a match

[tall mirage]

I believe Helix is stronger than other mechs but you blatantly said that no one uses it. Since we are going off a word alone, I have seen many people use Helix

[fair hare]

try to login to begin with :P

[finite compass]

i don't use helix
Nobody uses helix

[finite compass]

To sit 4 hours in the queue?

[fair hare]

Im sure your helix is useless

[finite compass]

Thanks already did

[fair hare]

do whatever you want O)> you aren't competent to discuss anything, imo

[tall mirage]

I never said I use Helix. I said I have seen other people use it

[fair hare]

to actually discuss you need to have expirience with a present version

[fair hare]

I can use it as well

but it's useless compared to other mechs

[tall mirage]

🤓👆

[fair hare]

exactly

so get good at the game guys

[finite compass]

Same as you 🤷‍♂️ opinions opinions

[crimson spoke]

there is a place for helix in 2v2 but there are better options

[finite compass]

I have

[fair hare]

much better options

[crimson spoke]

it is one of the bottom mechs

[finite compass]

It does not prove helix is a trash, that's just opinion or skill issue

[fair hare]

skill issue?

what does that mean?

[crimson spoke]

all it can do really is carry units

[finite compass]

Show me a players to practice on first

[crimson spoke]

it has low damage

[fair hare]

there is a lot of active players

I'm not the most active

[finite compass]

So you get game in 2 hours?

1v1 does not count for obvious reasons

[tall mirage]

Having a high carry capacity is very usefully in a game were you pick up and transport units a lot

[fair hare]

what is your level?

[tall mirage]

can you be more specific?

[fair hare]

you are a newbie

get good at the game

[tall mirage]

No, I played on 360

[crimson spoke]

360 is very different to this

that is a version from 2014

[tall mirage]

I am saying that I have played with game for a long time

[crimson spoke]

what was your name on 360

[tall mirage]

Ender2point0

I never played pvp

[crimson spoke]

thats what we are talking about

[tall mirage]

past tense... I was talking about 360

[finite compass]

That's just opinion 💀

[fair hare]

he basically said he never played pvp

[tall mirage]

how long have you known the English language?

[fair hare]

@finite compass you need to be a politician : )

[finite compass]

You blamed him for skills instead of answering what is incorrect in his argument. Same you did to mine. "Just play the game"

[fair hare]

because nothing to talk with you guys

you are just bad

[finite compass]

Nothing to talk to you then. You are bad at balancing

[fair hare]

prove it

[finite compass]

You have to prove your arguments instead of falling to opinions. See? Just proved it.

[fair hare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbCY98BszXc&t=453s

watch the video

sent it 2nd time

re-read what I said

goodluck <3

[finite compass]

What video is about? Does it show helix cheese on boosters? No? Sorry bye, you don't listen.

[crimson spoke]

what is fedcomp name in game?

[fair hare]

check the chat above

I said it's test of Aegis

and test of missile burst of Striker and helix

[finite compass]

You compare numbers. You compare ranges. And ignore all arguments

[finite compass]

Soooooo?

[fair hare]

your arguments is bs O)> I will ask you for 2v2 if I will be online and there will be players

[finite compass]

You would be surprised ...

[crimson spoke]

what is it

[finite compass]

Give me like 10 2v2 first to practice

Which is for some reason so hard to get

[fair hare]

after 10 games we will talk O)>

cya

[finite compass]

Opinions. And no arguments against carry capacity. Solid aeguments

[fair hare]

lol

you are just nub

learn the game

[tall mirage]

finally some action!

[fair hare]

it's normal because he didn't play since reboot I guess

[fair hare]

you are nub too <3

[finite compass]

What do you mean? I didn't play reboot or what?

[fair hare]

I mean you are bad player with this version of the game and you need expirience

[finite compass]

Would there be any players

[fair hare]

you will get some expirience and understanding

because right now you are making no sense to me

[finite compass]

Go on, give your arguments here. For now i only see opinions

[tall mirage]

why do you actively try to antagonize people?

[fair hare]

this is just a fact

I can prove with an action

[finite compass]

You are not making sense to me either, you simply ignore what i say because you have no skills to play helix?

[fair hare]

because you are nub

and Im not xd

[finite compass]

Solid arguments

[crimson spoke]

its weird someone that doesnt play is this opinionated about something

[fair hare]

I will beat you with helix

[finite compass]

Pro player ask to remove 3 units

[fair hare]

but it's not the case man

other mechs are just better

more useful in the game

[finite compass]

Give me a playerbase to begin with

[fair hare]

facts >_@

[finite compass]

I remember people crying out about hog until we made changes

[tall mirage]

so you admit that you actively try to antagonize people? Seems childish?

[finite compass]

You provide none

[tall mirage]

it would be fun to @ the whole server and do a poll

[finite compass]

To make your argument solid it should be like 20 matches of different players all showing similar issues

[fair hare]

I admit that I don't care O)> all what I interested in is a result

[finite compass]

From the people who said striker is fine iirc

[tall mirage]

insulting people is a very inefficient manner of doing that :/

[finite compass]

Before any adjustments

[fair hare]

Striker is a problem because of missile burst

[finite compass]

And then, if i am not mistaken, trying to play hog and confirm there issues with striker

[fair hare]

man O .o)> Do you play PVP or not?

if you don't play PVP GTFO from here

[tall mirage]

Yea, after the 8h que

[tall mirage]

GTFO I hear is a great game :)

[finite compass]

You play pvp and suggest to remove 3 units from the game

🤨

[fair hare]

Because we wouldn't lose anything without those units

in the terms of dinamic

[finite compass]

I would lose a lot if whopper is removed and i used aegis LOOONG before reboot

[fair hare]

most light units were nerfed anyway

[finite compass]

It was efficient as hell

In local areas

To stop dying

[fair hare]

so why do we even need lunchbox?

[finite compass]

All the time

[fair hare]

tanks cost more

income is low

[finite compass]

Because you can dumbly drop everything at fort instead of playing the game

Even super defended fort may have holes to drop

Lunchbox has very thin shield so you still can do that, but it's inefficient mostly

[fair hare]

So the better option is to make game last forever?

[tall mirage]

awe man! If only there was some unit to protect the whole fort!

[finite compass]

The better option is not to make game who does drops first

Because by the same logic let's remove outposts

[fair hare]

ok, as I said O)> Lets talk after 10 games

[finite compass]

Just backdoor each other

Dude will be telling me lunchbox is not needed lol

[fair hare]

cya-bye... it's a pointless conversation and you just don't understand the game

It's my opinion

[tall mirage]

he leaves his fort health at 1%

[crimson spoke]

I think they just like to debate

[finite compass]

So when do you say you started to play airmech?

[crimson spoke]

its pretty weird how people who dont even play pvp are so opinionated on pvp balance

[tall mirage]

who doesn't like to debate though? It's very fun :)

[finite compass]

I didn't see any happydeath in first two tourneys i participated

So i have solid reasoning i know lunchbox way getter

[crimson spoke]

debating is not fun

[finite compass]

I've seen it in so many different cases

[fair hare]

dude -_\ Game has changed many times... just live in the present

[tall mirage]

I'm sorry to hear your opinion on that :(

[finite compass]

Yes i've played so many flavors of metas and every meta needed it.

So you just nub comparing to me

Because i don't see you in the first tourneys

So you have not enough experience to know lunchbox

[fair hare]

cya in the game, champ

[finite compass]

Show me your tourney trophy pro 🤣

You like bragging so much

[tall mirage]

<_<

[uneven saddle]

I've encountered helix the least of any mech in 1v1, don't know if that counts for anything. I see it in 2v2, but I'm unimpressed.

[finite compass]

1v1 is impossible to balance

So it doesn't counts really

We would have to rebalance whole game to fit it into 1v1

[wide slate]

Honestly a needed helix buff

[rough canopy]

-1 Bad ideea

[narrow quiver]

This has gone wildly off topic. Please just make a new thread of the helix/aegis thing.

It’s turned into a helix balance discussion.

[rocky crow]

add an invincible lunchbox to fort, and make the unit only work on outposts?

[tall mirage]

I have been messaging my friends screenshots of this thread and saying Airmech moment

[finite compass]

This has gone into proper discussion. You consider it offtopic because removal of each unit requires separate thread.

[fair hare]

I think Lunchbox is cool for outposts but not for fort ( I believe need to encourage players to play fast games)

Idk why fort needs sockets at all

[distant atlas]

💀

[rocky crow]

as we've seen, with no rechargeable fort overshield (rememebr the world before lunchbox?) you can just repeatedly drop the fort for guaranteed damage, bypassing all need to play the actual game

any high ground near fort (think sandrim, Thar, etc) also makes the damage otherwise unblockable

re-introducing endless fort-dropping as a bandaid for stagnating 1v1's will end badly

[fair hare]

I think, it's fixable if you actually make energy to go faster when you carry units

Also, when someone does drops they are risking with their lifes

and wasting time

while enemy can make moves on the map

• shooters\buckies autoattacking

I think, would be fair to atleast make lunchbox to give less shield for the fort

[rocky crow]

you would nerf all unit-micro in the game for the sake of getting rid of lunchbox? If you want the game to go faster you buff snowball mechanics. Like player kill XP. Or removing build level restrictions. Ir outposts giving big buffs to upkeep and income, and making sure there's a singular middle one that's easily defended.

[fair hare]

It won't nerf any units micro O)>

need to find a right balance

inbetween of everything

including of units command and micro

energy and carry possibilities

map design need to be based on some sort of a distance you can go from outpost to another outpost fort etc

It shouldn't be random

https://youtu.be/6QjBE2RBoz8

need just to nerf Lunchbox shield

[distant atlas]

i dont think someone puts 5 lunchboxes at the same time

and its just 1 tank

people send more units than just 1 tank

[fair hare]

you put many lunchboxes to make the shield to recharge faster

people do it in high-tier games

[fair hare]

if people send units you actually able to stop them on the road to fort

basically because of 4 loadouts everyone will use Lunchbox in every game

so people will just play more safe instead of trying to finish the game

in the past, even when you had 2 loadouts

lunchbox, Aegis and even whopper weren't picked so often as now

[distant atlas]

i was playing one of the best players

they neva used lunchbox

[tall mirage]

So AA and sometimes the enemy mech just won't magically try to keep the push from dying?

[fair hare]

use your units

make positions

Heavy mines

Stasis mines

[fair hare]

Is it a point to remove lunchbox from the game or what are you trying to prove?

[tall mirage]

Use Helix?

[tall mirage]

Healing units?

[tall mirage]

Mech?

Also who uses stasis mines in PvP?

[fair hare]

use it

there is 4 loadouts now

[tall mirage]

No? I am asking if anyone uses stasis mines in pvp

[distant atlas]

lunchbox does NOT need nerf

[fair hare]

depends what you want to achieve in the result

I think if we nerf it a little bit people will still use it

[stone stag]

Remember for each Lunchbox is 1 less Whoper

So if enemy place 5 lunchbox is losing 20 upkeep in total

[fair hare]

Whopper is bs to be honest

need to be removed for sure

[stone stag]

dude you want 5 minutes games

[fair hare]

when it's reasonable

[fair hare]

anyway, most of the time in 1vs1 there is stalemate

probably you don't notice cos you are always busy sniping stuff with your Angel

but upkeep and income are pretty low

[distant atlas]

scallywag wants too much

[fair hare]

atleast im not russian

[distant atlas]

whoooa

thats racist

[fair hare]

stop attacking me because I'm Ukrainian

you russian pig

[distant atlas]

Im not attacking💀

Im not into that political sht

[fair hare]

and learn how to play the game

[distant atlas]

Toxicity 😊

[fair hare]

you do O)> you are following me and making those bs statemenets :D

[fair hare]

your brain

[distant atlas]

Nah u just have worst ideas possible

And i didnt even know that ur Ukrainian

[distant atlas]

I have nothing against Ukraine

[fair hare]

don't lie :P

when I told you that I'm Ukrainian you started that bs

[distant atlas]

When?

[fair hare]

and you call me racist

of course

[distant atlas]

Yes

Thats not racist?

U just started that political sht out of nowhere

[fair hare]

man O .o don't play a fool

[distant atlas]

Yea yea, tell more

[fair hare]

gonna ignore you, anyway

I can't change dumb people

[distant atlas]

Ok

[distant atlas]

Insulting😊

[fair hare]

just truth <3 enjoy

[distant atlas]

Nice job

[fair hare]

you are making provocations for a reason, though : )

[tall mirage]

Report for toxicity?

👀

[distant atlas]

Not only toxicity 💀

[tall mirage]

💀

[steel bear]

WHO LET THE MAN COOK!?

[distant atlas]

btw where is he now?

i cant see him in suggestion

bro i feel kinda bad rn

but rules are rules

[tall mirage]

Either got kicked or left but I'm just saying I am happy

[distant atlas]

50/50

[tall mirage]

Knowing them and how they act I feel like they got kicked or banned but we'll never know 😓

[distant atlas]

Ye

[uneven saddle]

Anyway, as someone who often tries to cheese outpost or rush fort, surprisingly I don't mind lunchbox that much. It can be annoying if you're using a slow mech, but it does keep matches a bit more honest.

Whopper is annoying, but if you kill one, the opponent usually hits the upkeep cap and can't build defenses, so it ends up screwing them over. Its easier as fast mechs, but when I'm playing striker, I drop a unit at the fort then try to kill whoppers. After that, I fly back and drop more at the fort when they can't build defense. It can end up putting them in a cycle where they have to build and protect whoppers while defending the fort and any outpost without having access to building units.

[distant atlas]

Thats what im talking about

Bro knows what those suggestions are for

Ehm

[finite compass]

Already told you. Just so you won't dumbly backdrop fort and unstead focus on strategy and outposts.

Remove lunchboxes and wait until neo backdrop your fort to the end

[finite compass]

Did u just wanted to speedup the game and now reduce carry efficiency?

[finite compass]

Evil neo laughts

[finite compass]

Yeah yeah, do moves but your fort is dead

[finite compass]

Then it would be pointless

[distant atlas]

that is why you should always think before typing something.

[finite compass]

I have barely ever seen more than 1 lunchbox. It only happen in huge backdrop spam. And to bypass it - all you need is to have map control

[finite compass]

Do they really?

[finite compass]

Because 1v1 cannot be balanced

[finite compass]

Don't forget whoppers cost money and you get exp killing them. It's even more important than instant cap reduce

[fair hare]

the same is happening in 2v2 though

I think 2v2 can't be balanced too

it depends from the approach

almost every game is stalemate

and missile marker drops

even if those units won't be removed

players need to have a possibility to finish the game

I agree with @crimson spoke

income and upkeeps are very low

you can't really push

This old notion that 1v1 can't be balanced doesn't really work here

because in 2v2 everything is even worse

[crimson spoke]

even the start of the game is pretty boring

we are just kinda sitting waiting for the slow income

shooting at each other in the air pointlessly

no one will make an offensive move because you have no income to repopulate

then the game drags on into late game where mechs are super powerful and you cant push because they will just micro the appropriate units over or kill everything themselves

and nuke kinda drags the game out more

because income is so low

and its really hard to dodge because it launches instantly

so you lose all your units you spent 15 mins building and now mechs are way stronger than units

so nothing happens

[finite compass]

Income suggestion is way better and deserves it's own thread

[tall mirage]

fr

[fair hare]

in present environment it's a crime the game has lunchbox, Aegis and Whopper so I proposed to remove it

[finite compass]

It's only your delusions

[fair hare]

not really

Stalemate is real

[finite compass]

Remove these items and you will get same stalemates but without additional options

[fair hare]

not really

[finite compass]

Oh sorry you will backdoor the fort non stop. Very interesting gameplay indeed.

[fair hare]

but the game will end :P

It would help to fix the problem if there is no another way

[finite compass]

Same way you can play minigame who drop the fort first. No need for outposts, no need for even units. Go to fort and shoot

[fair hare]

that's exactly what Neo gameplay looks right now

[finite compass]

Backdrops is not a fix

[fair hare]

drop the unit

[finite compass]

I don't want such crappy gameplay just because you meet equal player

[fair hare]

others mechs you can notice on map

[finite compass]

Do you remember overtime games?

[fair hare]

that was even fun

[finite compass]

Oh really? Then why were they removed?

[fair hare]

because many things were added and removed

there is no logic

the same reason why we had a lot of UI in the game

😁

[finite compass]

You don't need to remove these units. You need bring back overtime

Start it at 20 minutes

[fair hare]

better start it from the beginning

that could be an interesting game mode

[finite compass]

It's not a mode

It should be forced in pvp, always

20 mins - go to overtime

Fast pacing as you like

The point is - unlikely overtime code will be written again. Same as unlikely any unit will ever be removed.

[crimson spoke]

It’s still weird to me how someone who doesn’t play the game is so opinionated about something

The game right now goes to stalemate every game

30 + min game every time

[mossy furnace]

Y’all went crazy in this thread

[finite compass]

It's still weird to me people who play couple of pvp's nowadays believe they know the game the best

[finite compass]

Impressive. Now please go and re-read my comments about overtime mode starting at 20 mins

And don't forget to explain how removing the units will help you get eid of stalemates

Remember please, many of these units were added to get rid of stalemate

[mossy furnace]

It won’t not gonna lie

[finite compass]

Uber units were uber weapons to break stalemates

Uberuber devastator same

Nuke - same

All this stuff is to break stalemate. Does it work well?

[mossy furnace]

Can you guys just like play the game these 3 things aren’t gonna get removed

[finite compass]

Maybe it's not the units that is the issue?

[mossy furnace]

Possibly their play style

[finite compass]

They get equal player in 1v1 and then ask to add/remove some stuff from the game, thinking it will change something

[mossy furnace]

It really won’t though

[finite compass]

Like the other player wouldn't use that lol

[mossy furnace]

People will just find a new type of Bucky spam

[finite compass]

And then saying something about opinionation

[mossy furnace]

And this argument to remove lunchbox in my eyes is really uselessly

It’s not that hard to counter

And usually I get games over with in like 15 minutes when they have a lunchbox

[stone stag]

For me Whopper and Lunchbox are fine, they are good building boosters but fragile.
I could call Creep Spawner is an OP building because at minute 15 generate super creeps but thats its purpose.

[uneven saddle]

In fairness, many games that I've encounter that "stalemate," I can see how I can win, it will just take like 5-15 minutes before I am completely out of options. The opponent can usually beat me before then easily by fort dropping me, they just don't do that presumably because it is risky and throwing some units away. Usually if losing, I don't have the income to build defense, play mid, and protect outposts. Nor am I fast enough to do all of that as paladin, maybe as striker but still credits. Basically, if someone fort drops, pushes, and attacks an outpost at the same time, I'd lose. But if I defended that I'd likely win bad mid. (However I could probably beat all 3 of things if I used t45 + heavy mines + shooters with some luck).

The problem is, anytime you fort drop without progressively getting reasonably closer to killing the fort, it is basically a waste of credits. I also ha

[uneven saddle]

To me, stalemating happens because going for the win is risky, even when you're up. You mitigate this risk by playing slower and safer. If the income and upkeep from getting outpost were higher, the player who was down would be forced to take more risk to gain back ground, rather then the player who was up taking risk to win the game they're already winning faster.

#1210430036629266512 message

[crimson spoke]

most stalemates are when no one secures mid

like salt chasm bio storm

so there are just giant lines of units across the map with no real movement

artillery is pretty much useless because its countered by one unit and healer

bucky is the only thing that does anything interesting

[fair hare]

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