math-and-meta

[worldly vector]

i still dont exactly know how. putting all this on one line would overload the system COMPLETELY

(also the computer factory might kill my fuse.)

[timber flare]

Do the same as i did and stack the lines

After 10 refineries i make that line go above the merger and keep going

Untill i have grabbed the entire row

[worldly vector]

i then need to split it in 5 right away though

[timber flare]

After that you inject manifold into the manufacturers

You dont need to split

[worldly vector]

so line stacking doesnt make that much sense to me

[timber flare]

If you inject manifold it makes perfect sence

lemme show you the backside of this thing

[worldly vector]

i was thinking of taking as many outputs it needs for one set of computer production, do that 5 times and move the overflow to the next set

or something

[timber flare]

If you have your entire stacked line split into your manufacturers you just have to calculate when it will start running low and inject another line into it

This is how I inject new lines into my setup

[worldly vector]

well yes, but i need to feed all those inputs to 3 assemblers and a manufacturer, and this 5 times
so its a little more complicated, sadly

i think I´ll try some weird mix

[timber flare]

What is your belt limit RN

[worldly vector]

mk 4, 480 a minute

[timber flare]

So all your wires fit on 4 lines ?

3

[limpid canyon]

with the ingame calculator 🙂

[timber flare]

Someone doues not read message history

[worldly vector]

did that, still needed some guessing

[worldly vector]

yup.

[timber flare]

How many assemblers making wire ?

12?

[limpid canyon]

had same thinkin till i faced the facts: i was just WAY to lazy to do origin "Paperwork" and create a worksheet and prior each point into order and calculate the req. mats for each of those step

[timber flare]

Fused wire ?

[worldly vector]

here´s my idea: put them on like 4 lines, feed each line into the set for computer crafting, the wire overflow will feed into the next set and so on

[worldly vector]

12 with fused wire, and a single constructor making 50/m with the overflow caterium.

[timber flare]

Id also put them on 4 likes in that case and as soon as you have used up about 270 inject in another line

Also make sure that your constructor is on a smart splitter before all the assemblers to not waste ingots

Or you would screw the manifold

Unless you have it balanced already

[worldly vector]

this understandable?

i take the input lines from the bottom, they feed into a set each, overflow goes left to the next set. the 5th set will completely be fed by the overflow of the others

https://tenor.com/view/hangover-math-mathematics-equation-lol-gif-5822639

I guess this works?

is this a plan that sounds good or are you like "are you fricking stupid" right now?

[timber flare]

Works fine needlessly coplicated but will be all good

[worldly vector]

like that

[worldly vector]

my brain doesnt have the capacity to make it easier right now lmao

I mean theoretically it works

all that matters

not perfectly efficient, but still

[timber flare]

Id just like up all the assemblers first and feed all those mats into the manufacturers afterwards

Another manifold setup

[obtuse elm]

What you've got is a fine modular system where you can add another set of machines at the end to increase production. I think that kalle is assuming a large and fixed scale more than you are, PD

[worldly vector]

i have no idea whta i´m doing, i´m happy that its probably gonna work

[timber flare]

Well not really my setup could easily be expandef verticly

Ye its all good

[worldly vector]

could make them fill up first with another smart splitter

[timber flare]

No reason to.

[worldly vector]

yeah

its gonna fill up no matter what anyway

it will need a few minutes to boot up though, as i did some weird beltwork

like the classic "I´m lazy"-manifold

or however these are called

I think I´ll just feed the belts into the input of the next set

[timber flare]

You call that the im lazy manifold? Imma one up ya

[worldly vector]

then they are in the cylcle of the other set again

[timber flare]

All clippin

[worldly vector]

advanced lazy manifold

or, the "I dont give a frick, i know how it works" manifold

[timber flare]

Basicly. Also i like how compact it looks

[worldly vector]

also ignore how there is a large landmass in here.

[timber flare]

Ye that stuff actually somewhat annoys my sence of aestetics

[worldly vector]

aestetics???

[timber flare]

IKR foreign concept

Kinda cringe ngl

[worldly vector]

turns out my modular sytem is actually extremely tight and squeezed together

almost hard to see where the assemblers for the next module start

[timber flare]

pog

[worldly vector]

uhhh i need steel beams for conveyors

[worldly vector]

more like pain of game

[timber flare]

I have seen worse XD

Hell i have built worse

[worldly vector]

my god yes, i love my steel production

i will rebuilt it again after i made a train line from the lake coal nodes to here

[worldly vector]

ah finally

basic layout done. just needs the lines for rubber and plastic now, will do this tomorrow. Its 1:09 am here in germany.

this took way longer than i wanted it to

[sudden nexus]

Hey, Is there any way I can regulate the power going through power lines like so, if I have 2 smelters and I need a certain amount of power can I do that?

[radiant sinew]

no

you get the amount of power you put in

[magic island]

there's no sub-grids or priority within a grid or anything like that. a grid just has total power production and total power consumption

[ruby glen]

How smart is the AI for the auto-pilot tractors?

[radiant sinew]

they follow nodes (which you have to record)

otherwise they are kinda dumb

[wispy kestrel]

if i want to split a maxed belt in 2.. does it matter if i use regular splitter or a smart splitter with the empty output set to "none" ?... my steel factory have 480 coal in via belt, and 480 iron ingot in via truck. but still the iron gets backed up.

that is.. atlernate recipe, 2 coal and 2 iron ingots.. both miners are pure mk2 OC to 200%

[radiant sinew]

so what is the problem

[wispy kestrel]

why is one backed up and the other not, when they should be equal

[radiant sinew]

which line is backed up

[wispy kestrel]

these iron ingots..

[radiant sinew]

oh in the truck station

[wispy kestrel]

the foundries are full of iron too.. they flicker cause they arent getting enough coal

so coal isnt delivering the promised 480

[radiant sinew]

that seems like the issue

so are you splitting the coal into 2 lines?

[wispy kestrel]

yes

while the iron is already "splittet" in the depot

[magic island]

had you already built up a supply of iron on the other end?

[radiant sinew]

you have two things that take 480 coal, right?

[wispy kestrel]

i have 1 pure iron mine and 1 pure coal mine, both mk2 OC200%.. so they both produce 480

the iron is basic smelting recipe

[magic island]

if the source truck station was full of iron to begin with, you'd be transporting more than 480 per minute until the system balances out

and when it does balance out, it'll be with full belts that move sporadically instead of continuously

[wispy kestrel]

yea the coal and iron production i made didnt start at the same time.. but i thought i cleared out the cashe... maybe i underestimated and didnt check all the smelters in the iron

[magic island]

basically, those belts out of the station can carry 960 iron/min, and if your iron production got a headstart and the station is full, they will.

and then, if the steel factory is only consuming 480/min, they'll back up real quick, and then what you get are these 2 mk4 belts that are only moving half the time. which actually still works fine, efficiency-wise

[wispy kestrel]

k.. it was just my bad headmath and the depot and smelters buffers i didnt calculate..

ty for clearing that up 😄

[cinder silo]

One way to not worry about having 600 cubic metres in a pipe any longer than necessary.

[still blade]

the 44.615 is the amount of fuel/min i will make, and the 24.28 is how much fuel/min a fuel generators takes when fully overclocked. what im trying to do is to figure out how many generators i need, and what clocking speeds

[wind spade]

generators don't work linearly

check wiki for formulas

also that's pretty weird amount of fuel/min

[still blade]

its residual fuel

also, it only shows for one generator up to 250%

[wind spade]

not overclocking generators can help a lot with numbers 🤷‍♂️

[still blade]

so i should build 4 generators, with one being underclocked to 71.7917?

[oblique hollow]

or just use 246.228% overclocking instead

that makes one generator twice as fast

[wind spade]

again, you can't use this simple math for generator clock speed. Find formulas on wiki

[frosty owl]

(Assuming throughout allowed for it) I'd be using 1 belt for all of that, ngl
Would make routing lines easier without having to think about criss-crossing of lines since you can merge/split always from the same one (or two, if throughput is too much)

[jaunty prism]

is Satisfactory Turing complete?

[frosty owl]

Yes

[oblique hollow]

the methods are just so obscene its not worth it in any lifetime

[worldly vector]

that single belt would have a through put of like 1130 Quickwire a minute, if i understood what you mean. so that would be a wee bit too much

[timber flare]

We already talked about that yesterday. I did suggest and inject manifold

However now its built and functions well so there is no reason to change

[wind spade]

every time you need an inject manifold, you can just do multiple manifolds which are imo easier

[river night]

it sounds like inject manifolds are such a big concept on their own, just put a merger at a point where the required throughput wont exceed the belt limit anymore, and thats it 😄

i'll sometimes have a bit left over from the first section of the manifold, so instead of complicated re-balancing of my input, just let it overflow into the second part, which presumably is what people call "inject manifold"

[wind spade]

well the other problem is that in most cases you also need to split the input belts

honestly I'd just do one belt = one manifold

[river night]

that works fine if that matches a fixed machine count, or you over/under clock to make it work

i'll just connect them and not worry about, i dont really find that much more complicated

[wind spade]

95% endgame builds require underclocking to match numbers

not like it's a big deal anyway, the total input and total output is still the same

[river night]

indeed

[wind spade]

so I'd just save myself the trouble of making injected manifold and instead make X manifolds 🤷‍♂️

[jaunty prism]

how obscene it is? is it similar to method in Factorio?

[wary tulip]

With overflow smart splinters and the awesome sink, I don’t even bother with over/underclocking much.

[wind spade]

underclocking is so that you don't have building idling half the time 🙂

[wary tulip]

What’s wrong with idling?

[wind spade]

power consumption jumping up and down, lights changing colors (and therefore you can't easily see if setup works properly or not, etc.)

[wary tulip]

Power fluctuations are handled by batteries, and changing light colors don’t bother me. And I can math out to make sure my production numbers are close enough. Just have a touch more input on the system so my output stays consistent.

[sullen cloud]

Each to their own, but factories with 100% efficiency are very satisfying

[wind spade]

I'm the person to not build batteries as they hide the real problems 🤷‍♂️

[wary tulip]

Eh I suppose. I’m a make it work and give me the output I want kinda builder. Too many other projects to fuss over the little stuff where I can just plug in an overflow and be done.

[wind spade]

also I use online planners and they give you the exact amount including clock speed, so I can just use that 🤷‍♂️

[wary tulip]

I don’t rely on batteries, I just use them for fluctuations. With all the geothermal power gems plugged in, the power cycles anyways.

And I like to play the game straight out, not rely on the crutch of calculators.

[wind spade]

well, I like to not have to do complex calculations in head 🤷‍♂️

[wary tulip]

That’s why I don’t 😉

[wind spade]

well if you just eyeball everything, you won't get very much efficient factories (which I don't like 🤷‍♂️ )

[wary tulip]

Well I’m doing a little more than just eyeballing it.
Like my fuel power plant… I calculated out my total oil input, how many refineries I needed, how many power gens that would supply, and built it to support that amount.

Little bit of simple math and I know I had 1600 fuel to work with.

Then I could work on what I really like to do… architecture to hold that size of factory. 🙂

[wind spade]

well yeah but you could just calcualte that using any online tool

and when you get to things like feedback loops, cycles or byproducts, it becomes super hard to actually calculate it properly

[wary tulip]

That’s what the awesome sink is for, right?
Then I don’t have to care about that.

[cedar mica]

Leaving a lot of resources behind, if you just sink all the byproducts

[wind spade]

why would you sink some intermediate resources though, if you can sink products

also sink doesn't help you to make efficient loops

[wary tulip]

There are more than enough nodes to produce plenty of excess. Making a side factory attached to my main just to handle overflow seems like a waste when I’m already producing those goods elsewhere and in sufficient quantity.

[wind spade]

what overflow? if you calculate everything you don't have any overflow in the first place

[still blade]

in spreadsheets, how do i calculate a product that its ppm output is larger than its input?

[wind spade]

that's a very weird and generic question. the math should be the same no matter what 🤷‍♂️

maybe if you show what you're doing we can help you better

[still blade]

ill give an example. HOR into petroleum coke. the ppm input is 40/min and the output is 120/min. its x3 of 40, but i dont know how to calculate it in spreadsheets

[wind spade]

that really depends on what you're calculating 🤔 f.e. if you know how much you need, just do [needed]/120 = amount of buildings needed

[still blade]

im trying to calculate how much petroleum coke i will get if i use all of the HOR

[wind spade]

there are some online tools that can do that for you 🤷‍♂️

[still blade]

in my spreadsheets, i got 240

[proven sphinx]

Hi, I need to ask something ... i read the fluid pipe guide thingy and made one of thoe Priority connections .... does it not work 100%?

[sacred orbit]

Right. Are there any ratios of fuel production to fuel generator usage with whole numbers, like Coal’s 3-8 ratio?

[wind spade]

depends on recipes

[sacred orbit]

I’m looking for raw crude oil input-fuel Gen output.

[wind spade]

yeah, depends on recipes

[sacred orbit]

Yeah. Is there any sort of guide that uses a mishmash of recipes to equal the input of fuel gens?

[still blade]

i think i got it. PC = petroleum coke, CG = coal generator, HOR = heavy oil residue

[wind spade]

first say what recipes you want to use and then you can find the good amount for those 😛

[sacred orbit]

Any. All. I don’t care

I want crude oil in and a whole number of fuel gens out

[wind spade]

each set of recipes would have different "nice ratio" 🤷‍♂️

[sacred orbit]

… okay. What’s the input rate for fuel gens?

[wind spade]

12/min

[still blade]

12/min fuel at 100% clock speed

24.28/min for 250%

[sacred orbit]

And the HOR->fuel ratio?

[wind spade]

which recipe

[still blade]

residual fuel i guess

[sacred orbit]

The default one

[wind spade]

there's several "default" ones

• fuel
• residual fuel
• alt: diluted fuel
• alt: diluted packaged fuel

the first two are "default"

[sacred orbit]

There’s Crude->fuel&plastic resin and HOR->fuel

[still blade]

residual fuel: 60/min HOR to 40/min fuel

[wind spade]

||furl sounds like furry fuel||

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items/fuel

[sacred orbit]

So three refineries on that recipe could run 10 generators.

[still blade]

as greeny said earlier today, simple math doesnt apply to fluids

to be safe, run only 9

[wind spade]

gens are pretty safe

[sacred orbit]

I can tell from my current oil setup.

[wind spade]

but I'd recommend to stop expecting "nice ratios" everywhere, the game is much simpler if you just embrace decimals and underclocking

[still blade]

just enjoy your time before aluminum

[sacred orbit]

I’d rather build with nice ratios. Like Snutt said in a video where he discussed the current OC rate, the MOST power efficient way to do anything is to underclock everything and build hundreds of buildings.

[wind spade]

I didn't mention power efficiency though

[sacred orbit]

I’m just saying, underclocking sounds like a deep rabbit hole

[wind spade]

I just said that if you calculate something and the result is "you need 2.86 constructors", then I'd just build three constructors and underclock last one to 86%, rather than somehow mess with ratios and hope to get nice one

[wind spade]

underclocking is hardly that. It's a nice tool to make decimal amounts of buildings. It does save power, but power is irrelevant through most of the game anyway

[proven sphinx]

why would that be deep rabbit hole?

i am making 6 uranium fuel rods and 1.5 plutonium fuel rods at perfect ratios , the problem is .. that byproduct is cancer, so now i got 15000 waste + all on the belts that needs to be gone xD

[sacred orbit]

You underclock once to get 100% efficiency on all machines. They’re running so slow though that you build up more to increase production. You notice that it’s overall saving you power to do so, so you build up more and more buildings, underclocking further to save MORE power, and it just keeps going.

[proven sphinx]

you dont underclock to save power, u underclock to make what you need to get X/min endproduct

i mean, some people underclock to save power, but i underclock cause i dont need the machines maximal potential, if i need 1.89 refineries, i make 2 and underclock, i don't make 1 and overclock ... it all burns down to what you want to come out of the machine on the end

[magic island]

underclocking is something you do to fine-tune your input/output quantity, not for the power savings. the power savings are just kind of a little bonus, making precise clocking more efficient than letting an underfilled machine go in/out of standby

most recipes in the game don't form ideal ratios when every machine involved is running at 100%. even recipe combos with great synergy (like steel screw -> copper rotor) tend to involve underclocking one of them

[sacred orbit]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=_P0nXYY8UHs&feature=share

[wind spade]

you only underclock the last machine in a manifold to make the proper ratio. You don't build more machines

[proven sphinx]

I don't get it , i got 30 nuclear plants at 100%, that shoud make 300 waste, i got 4 blenders "Non-Fissile Uranium" that needs 37.5 waste each ... and 2 particle accelerators needing 25 each

that should be 300 waste per minute .. but it still clogs up and fills the belts/machines .. can someone explain ?

[sullen cloud]

Is the sulfuric running smoothly? Maybe check machine efficiency rates

[proven sphinx]

all 4 blenders + particle accelerators are running at 100%

[sullen cloud]

Hard to tell. I run a setup with 400 waste/min and it has been without any issues since ages

[proven sphinx]

i overclocked a couple of machines using waste , hopefully that will fix it ..

[sullen cloud]

only thing, waste add ups just a little bit due to the ‚lag‘ because overall save is huge. But that’s like 2% more waste than processed. Takes ages that I need to check the buffer storage.

[wind spade]

can be anything really, but with waste I'd build slightly more processing anyway. You get lizard doggo's waste, also if you disconnect something on accident, you'll never get rid of the buffered waste, etc.

there's also the splitter duping bug, which happens on game load

[proven sphinx]

yea, allready shut down my plant 2 times to get rid of total of 30 000 waste + belts xD

[sullen cloud]

What’s the splitter duping bug?

[wind spade]

if a game is saved with item inside a splitter (in a specific state), the item is duplicated on save load

[sullen cloud]

Uh, that’s new to me. But that might explain some minor issues. Thanks

[cinder silo]

That probably explains my particle accelerator room becoming a radiation hazard, I can choke off my nukes for a couple of hours to get that back under control, I'm not entirely sure how best to expand reprocessing though because there is no space.

[frosty owl]

Someone streamed a whole playthrough where production was based around "item duplicators" (splitters contraptions)

[remote ice]

question: on a more technical level, how is headlift and partial pipe filling calculated? Does it just check the height coordinates of the two ends of the pipe?

so theoretically, if i had a pipe with just enough head lift to get fluid through the elevation increase, and then i put a upward u-bend in it (while keeping it all 1 pipe segment), it'd still flow?

[deft lichen]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Head_lift

[oblique hollow]

you cant have a pipe with a U bend thats made of just one segment

so inherently that trick doesnt work

but yes, it uses the end points for height

[remote ice]

You can, just not big ones

so it probably won't become relevant since usually having that small of a margin of head lift would be bad, but it's still good to know, than you

[sacred orbit]

duplicated how? like, infinite copies? or just one copy?

[magic island]

the game handles it as schrodinger's item and ends up putting it in two places on load

[unborn sphinx]

Is there a way i can split 45 into 30 and 15?

[cinder silo]

3 way split and merge one with a second.

[unborn sphinx]

ohhhhh yeah that makes sense, thanks

[median heath]

Single split will accomplish this when the 15 side fills.

[unborn sphinx]

yeah but i cant ber bothered to wait for the build up on one side for my factotry to work efficiently

[median heath]

Prefeed. Then you don't have to wait 🤷‍♂️

[unborn sphinx]

have no clue what that is

[median heath]

Where you hand-fill the side that's going to fill up so you skip the whole "waiting for it to spool" step.

[tropic hawk]

You are looking for load balancing tips, I would recommend not listening to the people who tell you to use manifold. They are trying to convert you to their side ||which is better|| you do you.

[unborn sphinx]

whats manifold 🤡

[tropic hawk]

I'm glad you asked!

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[unborn sphinx]

i already do that haha, idk a more efficient wqay so i just use and abuse splitters and mergers

[stable sun]

They suck ass

[mystic moon]

Wdym?

[forest blade]

guess what @median heath. i finally used truck stations today

not a single truck was used. only to sushi manifold and sort materials for assemblers and manufacturers

[sand epoch]

Umm yes you can...?

[mystic moon]

This coming from the person that literally wrote the book on pipes?

[sand epoch]

I've done 1 segment u bends dozens of times :/ not hard.

[radiant sinew]

the pipe master is wrong about pipes smh

[frosty owl]

Even sushi belts are more reliable than fluids and pipe mechanics

[wind spade]

one copy

[sacred orbit]

Okay. That’s good

[sacred orbit]

No siphon mechanic makes me sad.

[frosty owl]

1 copy. In short: when item is loaded while between a splitter and a belt output, the item is sent both to the output AND remain in the splitter's inventory, thus being sent to the next aviable output.
Result: the splitter outputs 2 copies of the item.

[sacred orbit]

I want to abuse gravity and fluid dynamics

[frosty owl]

And yes, there is someone crazy enough to make a playthrough exploiting this ahah

[frosty owl]

What's a "siphon mechanic"?

[wind spade]

nobody is stopping you ||but everyone will judge you||

[sacred orbit]

https://youtu.be/xmZNUqcSI94

[frosty owl]

2 blenders + 1 parti le accelerator require a handy 100 waste/min.
You have only 2 of such setups, so those can process 200/min.
200/min is less than 300/min :P

[sacred orbit]

https://youtu.be/PVWPBxZ7v0I

[remote ice]

would siphoning even work with pipes this large?

also, you can't siphon water more than about 34 feet

[frosty owl]

Duh, because you need to use meters after

[remote ice]

tbh when i first learned about foot-head in college i thought it was the stupidest unit ever

i still do, but i also thought that then, too.

(i will now grudgingly admit that its a little simpler to work with, but really, people could just memorize "oh it's a meter per x kPa" or something)

[sacred orbit]

This game doesn’t have a siphon mechanic built into it.

The devs did their best to make fluids “simple”, so there’s no complex things like siphoning

[remote ice]

i know that, but i'm saying that siphoning usually works better when the viscosity and surface tension and such of the fluid is high compared to the size of the pipe

you can siphon water through a tiny tube like a straw much more reliably than a big tube like a hose or drainpipe or something

and the pipes ingame are literally 2 meters in diameter

[frosty owl]

Alumina solution might be pretty dense and with high surface tension...

[remote ice]

oil would be too

but there's also a lot of water and water-based fluids like sulph. acid

[frosty owl]

In fact, I'm fairly sure we just need this:
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/627e8451ca608e080350fe07

[remote ice]

also the size of pipes is so large that... i guess it's technically cavitation? Cavitation becomes a big issue. You won't be able to siphon more than 10 meters, which is barely more than the headlift from a refinery output

for water, at least. Oil might be better and i suspect fuel would be worse

10 meters is pretty far for a garden hose. It's not very far when you're working with meter diameter pipes

[proven sphinx]

yea, i figured out that last night and could not get to sleep.. so i've been rebuilding my factory .. happy sleep 😂

[sacred orbit]

I didn’t play this game for once today. Instead got to play two other games that were pretty fun.

Was a nice break from hyperfocusing on this game and being up all night

[frosty owl]

Say whet they were in #off-topic-general

[frosty owl]

Honestly, I'm surprised nobody noticed and told you earlier 😅 😆

... Even greeny didn't notice
I thought all his game experience would have made such things obvious

[proven sphinx]

it all started when i asked a long time ago "how many plutonium rods does 6 uranium get me " and they all said 1.5 ... and thats what i made the tool tell me, i put up 300 waste per min and never gave it another glimps .. so.. here i am .. a few hundred years later .. figuring that out

[frosty owl]

If you outsource math to others, always double check the results (at least the first time)

[wind spade]

ah the joys of making own tool and not getting correct results

[proven sphinx]

atleast @wind spade 's awesome tool helped me fix the problems :P

[frosty owl]

||(Did you remember to check the results though? )||

[proven sphinx]

i've been sitting here watching the waste pass trough .. spending 100 filters .. and it doesnt clog up anymore 😂 so yea

now it's back to my 9000/min copper ingot factory

[frosty owl]

Lemme know if you happen to be interested in seeing easily-cloggable nuclear facilities 😉 😆

[proven sphinx]

oh.. i got 2300 plutonium fuel rods now 🙈

[frosty owl]

Imagine how long trucks could run with that

[vapid gorge]

Probably double check it even if you don’t out source it

[frosty owl]

Fair

[gloomy palm]

have there been any attempts at maxing the map resources out?

any of which being successful

[wind spade]

attempts - yes
successful - depends on definition, but mostly no

[gloomy palm]

hm

i guess what i'm thinking is if you put a maxed out miner on every node for example

but the map is pretty big

and i think max miner level can't be carried on the max conveyor anyway

unless they've added a 1200p/m conveyor yet

[wind spade]

you can just sink all the ores and ez

maxed miner on each node

[gloomy palm]

well i mean, just to do it as a test initially then yeah i guess putting a sink on everything would work just to see how stable the game can be while max mining everything

i guess water wouldn't be part of the experiment because you can extract water in too much area

[wind spade]

without any big issues, there's not so many miners on the map

[gloomy palm]

ahhhh

and how do you sink oil

you'd have to make containers and sink those

[wind spade]

ores

[gloomy palm]

hm?

[wind spade]

I said sink all ores

[gloomy palm]

yeah but im referring to all the map resources

[wind spade]

even then you can just convert oil to rubber and sink that

[gloomy palm]

apart from water which is everywhere

although there's probably a water extraction limit before reality ends?

[tropic wasp]

I was looking around for a spreadsheet that calculated the total ore/min you can have that was updated for U6 but couldnt find one, so i made one myself (although i am not entirely sure if i did it right so if someone could factcheck me on it then that would be greatly appreciated

[median heath]

Just look on the input tab of Tools and it has all totals.

[wind spade]

they may be wrong for u6 tho

[unborn ermine]

Yeah like missing ore nodes/hidden ones.
iirc a good one would be the iron node hiding in the forest near the golden coast between the coast and the falls.

Will be pleasantly surprised if they do end up adding nodes to the northern spiral coast.

[sullen cloud]

Imagine an exploration update without something to be explored in the new biome

[sand epoch]

Can't be that hard to Calc.. load map into scim, count nodes :/

[deft lichen]

They're already counted on the buttons that toggle the nodes

[lament jolt]

So I am legitimately building an oil storage site that when finished will hold 22.5 Million cubic meters of oil. And, just for S&G, I'm building it by hand. 9,375 Industrial fluid buffers.

[mystic moon]

Why?

[lament jolt]

Because I want to? Also, eventually I'll need to have the oil stored for my 20,000 fuel generators to get after the refinery pass

Don't worry about my sanity, it left a while ago

[cinder silo]

20,000 fuel generators?

[tropic hawk]

1: oil is infinite
2: why are you posting it here?

[vocal tundra]

And 20,000 fuel gens seems excessive

[cinder silo]

I built 888 and that facility is huge, more than 20x that sounds like a recipe for a computer fire.

[tropic hawk]

Let's run some numbers...

[cinder silo]

For starters he won't be running turbo fuel with 20k gens, I use half the worlds sulphur with 888 (classic recipe), so 15 fuel per.

[tropic hawk]

Imma use a beta calculator to see how to run 20k gens...

[median heath]

Storing... oil...

🤦‍♂️

[topaz hedge]

To each their own.. maybe they just graduated from dsp

[median heath]

Reference every time I tell people to stop bringing habits from other games over to this one.
Treat this like it is its own game (which it is).

[vocal tundra]

Im finding it funnier that they think they can make 20,000 fuel generators

[topaz hedge]

To each their own.

[median heath]

This is one of the exceptions to that 😭

[cinder silo]

More than 20x what's shown here, it isn't happening imo, not even close to enough oil for one.

[lament jolt]

Math is solid in my book. 750 refineries plus 750 blenders to have 150,000 fuel per minute. 2 trains of 250 wagons to deliver to gens. 35,000 buffers to store fuel. 70 buffers per 40 gens. I have the oil storage site as a way to make sure I don't run out before the 35k fuel buffers are full.

[cedar mica]

Around 3k fuel gens, is max what you can use, with current oil

[lament jolt]

If you limit yourself to what you think is the maximum without using items like buffers, go ahead. My plan is to push the limits

[median heath]

Ok so how many minutes in total do you want this system to run?

[topaz hedge]

Maybe they have mods to add nodes? I dunno

That or no one told them about the u4 power changes.

[lament jolt]

No mods for nodes. I want to have the accomplishment of seeing 3tw vanilla

[tropic hawk]

With Turbofuel (most efficient oil->generator material) you can get 3040 gens off of that, and using the remaining oil get 320 gens running off the remaining oil.

[median heath]

For how long?

[lament jolt]

Each group of 70 buffers would last 350 minutes for their generator group. Plus the extra in the connecting pipes

[cedar mica]

Max nuclear, is not using much oil, so 1.5TW might be possible, but dont think much higher, sustained

[tropic hawk]

3360 FGens = 504000 MW = 504 GW = 0.504 TW

[median heath]

And after 350 minutes... then you just have 20k generators, of which 17k+ are useless?

[tropic hawk]

Imma go run max power gen build real quick, holt please

[median heath]

1.13 TW last I checked.

[cinder silo]

I'm all for pushing limits and breaking the game but that will implode once the buffers are done for, but you do you.

[cedar mica]

Thats from nuclear, then you add in any remaining oil, coal and sulfur

[lament jolt]

Power plant is more of a "hey, look at what I did" thing. I know it isn't practical.

[cinder silo]

I hope you at least have it in its own save or a fork.

[median heath]

I mean fair.. if your goal is hitting 3 TW though, I'd recommend setting up max nuke first as it will cut the amount of fuel gens you need down by 1/3rd.

[cedar mica]

Its just 1200 nuclear reactors. Storing that many rods, is not hard.

[median heath]

True.

[cinder silo]

I don't envy your refinery build to fill up the gigantic amount of buffers, nor the pipeworks, 😵‍💫

[lament jolt]

No nuclear....my goal was 3TW vanilla on standard fuel. I've calculated it will take a solid real world week to fill the oil, and about 15 hours to have the fuel made for several trains to arrive

[tropic hawk]

According to Satisfactory tools, max power generated indefinitely is 1.67 TW

[median heath]

Is nuclear not considered vanilla to you?

[lament jolt]

I started my project in U4. Nuclear was not friendly...still isn't to me.

[cinder silo]

Oh god the time taken to gather the materials haha 🤮

[tropic hawk]

It's not that bad... Just need a good calculator.

[cedar mica]

16.67 fuel gens or 1 nuclear gen... If you want to do the more work intensive route, go for it

[cinder silo]

Nukes took a bit of planning and building the whole cycle including waste disposal before I even threw the switch, thankfully my very first attempt worked out 🙂

[lament jolt]

I'm expecting pipes to exceed 5 digits on KM when all is done 😭😂🤣😵‍💫

[cedar mica]

Might be easier to set it up with packagers. Less issue with pipe filling

[cinder silo]

The belt work would be also quite blech

[topaz hedge]

After that, someone else will just build 2.5k npp and beat it

[lament jolt]

Packagers suck, imo. Double ended extra steps, no thanks. Hence why I'm manually building my oil storage site, as it works better for me

[cinder silo]

Loads of stored fuel rods next to the nuclear tomb in probably 10,000 industrial cans could likely run the whole thing for the life of the save too.

[topaz hedge]

But 20k fuel gens. I'm not really sure the game can handle it.

[vocal tundra]

Yeah even on the highest end pc

[lament jolt]

My save is at 20.6 MB and takes almost 4 minutes to save now. Used to be twice as long in U5

[topaz hedge]

I've got roughly 5k total machines, extractors etc built and my save chugs

[cinder silo]

Be prepared for the game getting unplayable for sure, I tried to build 32,000 power stores in a huge tower, after 16,000 I was getting less than 10fps.

[cedar mica]

You dont need to have all the fuel gens visible

[lament jolt]

I'm 50/50 on walling them off or not. They are on the ocean, barely clear of the new stuff in Spire coast

[tropic hawk]

Wall them off.

Im telling you three times: it WILL help.

[topaz hedge]

Doesn't matter if their visible or not. It's made no difference for me.

[cedar mica]

It makes a difference on GPU load

[lament jolt]

My 11600k likes the work. My 3080ti mostly just goes 'meh'

[topaz hedge]

My save is so cpu bound my gpu isn't doing much.

But my saves only around 14mb and still very playable

[cinder silo]

Behold the eater of fps! , keep in mind the 16,000 power stores within were only connected by wires, no fluid calculations, the pipes on top will fry your processor. , I'm using a 12900k with a 3090, It still choked.

[median heath]

Max Screw is the eater if FPS

[cinder silo]

🤣 🤮

[median heath]

1.4 millions items/min

[lament jolt]

U6 seems much better in handling the map than U5. I kid you not my load times are half of what they used to be. Oh, I do have a battery site in swamp that holds 3TWh

I hooked up all the geothermal and it said 169 hours to full...lol

[cinder silo]

Not just me then having geothermals trickle charging a battery farm, good to know 🙂

[lament jolt]

3,000,000 mWh, actually

I did help it along with magic energy....

My goal is to eventually get rid of that mod and see the power plant come to life. If I could only have a 500 pipeline valve master open switch....

[median heath]

Battery farms are mostly just aesthetic though tbf.

No practical value unless you're building power wrong.

[lament jolt]

As is, buffers are above the gens. IDK how non powered pumps would work to stop the flow

[cinder silo]

Mine is an isolated emergency measure just in case coffee stain decide to break both of my power sources, that's it, when 1.0 comes about (whenever that is) I'll either take it out or just forget about it.

[median heath]

You're not going to do a full reset for 1.0?

[cinder silo]

Maybe, but I still want to keep this save maintained 🙂

[lament jolt]

Fluid dynamics states 30-40 % of each floor's generators would falter if the pipes were just open and the two trains deliver fuel

[median heath]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[lament jolt]

Whereas having the fuel stored first and opening a valve (500 of them total) would be better....maybe

[cinder silo]

I'm not going to delete my current save, just take with me the lessons I learned, I'd still like to be able to tour the tunnels & working infrastructure after 1.0 if possible.

I'm creating yet another 10km tunnel ...

[topaz hedge]

Just you and that guy with battery farms..

But me too. My u3 save will carry on x:

[cinder silo]

This save does date back to U3, still stumbling across some outpost facilities that are way out of date with build/wiring and updating them.

[sand epoch]

Someone has a battery farm? Gimme. My buffer needs more

[topaz hedge]

@sand epoch what are batteries?

[sand epoch]

Ah, not batteries but power storage..

[topaz hedge]

They're the same to me. batteries, power storage.. I had about 100, but u6 swallowed them up so they got deleted.

[cinder silo]

I know what you mean by U6 swallowing stuff, I reloaded my old save from before I demolished everything at the spire coast, this is what I found 😵‍💫

[rapid pier]

7x5

How much is this

I cant solve this

[median heath]

If you can't solve 7x5 this definitely isn't the game for you...

[tropic hawk]

It's 75.

[tropic hawk]

For legal reasons, that is a joke.

[median heath]

No, that's 7**+**5...

Sheesh..

[tropic hawk]

Ah right, my bad. The x sign flips it... It's 72

[median heath]

When you rotate the + by 45 degrees the meaning changes.

[quartz violet]

What if you have a bunch of particle accelerators with a big gap in between their usage

[median heath]

Unless you're building power wrong this doesn't matter.

I.E. correctly built power will be able to handle all accelerators running at 100% capacity all the time.

[quartz violet]

Well yeah I suppose you should have enough power but a battery bank would be really nice for giant bursts in usage if you have a weird super high production factory that only runs sometimes if you are lazy

[rapid pier]

i was joking

[median heath]

If grid consumes less than 600 GW total, no need for batteries.

If you somehow consume more than 600 GW at peak and don't want to burn plutonium, then sure - use batteries.

[median heath]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

So funny.

Oh... wait.

[tropic hawk]

Look into the dark void of space listen to the silence. And if you listen very hard, you might be able to make out the sound of nobody giving a hoot.

[cinder silo]

Ahh the deafening sound of silence.

[remote ice]

that's why headphones are able to play really loud music

it protects your hearing; you need noise to stop the silence from deafening you

[rapid pier]

no taste

[rapid pier]

u tell a joke then

[knotty ibex]

7x5 is easy. It's 77777

[median heath]

A person who trades NFTs, a Crossfit trainer, and a Trump supporter walk into a bar.

And I know this because they all immediately had to tell me about themselves.

[vocal tundra]

Lmaooooooo

[rapid pier]

?

[vocal tundra]

Can i steal that one?

[median heath]

Steal away 😂

[vocal tundra]

Hell yeah

[tropic hawk]

Dark humor warning:
Want to know how dark humor and make a wish foundation kids are similar?
|| They never get old. ||

[small kayak]

It got pretty dark here...
Reminds me of a comic about someone standing in the dark and saying:
Hello darkness my friend...
then the black panel gets white in the place the person stands and a voice tells:
We are no friends...

[median heath]

+1 to friendship

[vocal tundra]

Im not funny enough so i don't try to be

[fierce ruin]

I need advice, today I built a Plastic and Rubber factory with the waste going into fuel, enough to power 8 coal generators with the petroleum coke. The water was a long way from the Oil, so I used a lot of pumps along the way. However, the flow wasn’t enough to suffice for all 8 generators so the waste built up and I was left with only 2 of 8 coal generators running. I’m thinking it’s down to the single pipe, so Ideally, I’ll need more, maybe 2 pipes with 2 water pumps on each. Laying the pipes though even stacked with pumps is a nightmare, as I like it clean. Just before I redo the pipe work can someone confirm that this is indeed my issue? I’ve posted some screenshots earlier in the #screenshots section.

[sand epoch]

Why not belt the coke down to the water and put the generators there?

[obtuse elm]

A single Mk1 pipe can't carry enough water for 8 generators

[sand epoch]

Also.. yea.. 300 isnt enough for 8 gen :/

[obtuse elm]

you need 45 for each, so at least 360m3

[fierce ruin]

I figured, I do like that it's all together though, but belting the coke would be so much easier. Hmm, I'll have a look at a clean way to lay the pipes and have a think on it.

[sand epoch]

Long pipes are rarely a good idea, but they suck even more before mk2 pumps

[fierce ruin]

I think I may leave the 8 in place for later and try mk2 pumps on them later, I didn't know they were a thing. Then just belt the coke for now, and build 8 more gens.

[obtuse elm]

better pumps won't change your throughput problem, though

those only give you more headlift. They don't move more fluid

[fierce ruin]

Oh I know, it will give me time to work on my pipe skills lol. I want them lined up or stacked with neat turns, I'm good with belts but pipes not so much.

[sand epoch]

If you have mk2 pumps, u should have mk2 pipes.. ?

[fierce ruin]

Oh so there are bigger pipes then as well

[obtuse elm]

they unlock together, IIRC 😛

[sand epoch]

Mk2 pipes do 600..

[fierce ruin]

Yeah, I just checked the wiki, cheers both I might just dump the extra coke and run the 2 power gens until I unlock those mk2's. Power isn't an issues anyway.

[median heath]

I feel like the easiest solution is just to build a plastic and rubber factory that has no waste... 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

the recyc still has resin.

[median heath]

Recycled Loop has no byproduct.

At all.

[vapid gorge]

oh im thinking something else yeah

hard to early on though

[median heath]

Fuel setups have to deal with Resin.

Which I usually just convert to Residual Plastic to make the cans for packaging the excess fuel from the system.
Keep it all in-house.

[fierce ruin]

I'll look into that, I'm still fairly early game, I only started with Oil earlier today. I've got a nice simple 40/40 Plastic Rubber out put for now at least.

[vapid gorge]

it's more late game shenanigans with a LOT of alt recipes to find.

[fierce ruin]

Yeah, bit passed me for now. I've only just done steel and basic oil so far. talking of alts, I'm searching for Stitched Iron Plates, I got 5 more HD's earlier so will see what I get, fingers crossed.

[vapid gorge]

good recipe to combine with iron wire

[cyan hinge]

guys I want help with me splitting a 5 in item into 3 and 2

can anyone help me with this

I want the spiting with 3 coming out from right direction and 2 coming out of left

[magic egret]

why

[radiant sinew]

good point ^

[wind spade]

you can also just use a single splitter and it will self-balance over time

[fierce ruin]

That's what I'm using it with, initially to improve my reinforced Iron Plates production.

[fierce ruin]

Bingo, and with the first HD of the day!

[frosty owl]

Split in 6, then merge 3 lines for the right output and 2 for the left output. Finally, merge the remaining 1 BEFORE the first splitter.

Optimized solution: split in 2, send 1 to the right and split the other one in 3. Of these 3 merge 2 for the left output and merge the remaining one before the first splitter.

[jaunty prism]

does Turing complete construction in Factorio still work in Satisfactory?

[wind spade]

satisfactory is turing complete but not sure how is it relevant to Factorio

[median heath]

May I ask what "Turing Complete" means?

[wind spade]

able to simulate turing machines

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness

very lean definition would be that it has stuff to simulate common logic gates

(since with them you can then simulate all the turing machines)

[magic egret]

how do you do an inverter in satisfactory

[wind spade]

I've posted one a while back, it involves a sink and overflow belts

red and blue simulate two different types of items

if red items are flowing in, blue items aren't flowing out

and vice versa

[median heath]

👍

[magic egret]

oh i see

smart

[ivory warren]

looking for the aluminum meta

[vapid gorge]

Sloppy - electrode- pure , probably

[ivory warren]

what are the benefits

[cinder silo]

I use sloppy & pure but not electrode, the setup simplifies aluminium production by completely eliminating silica, I know electrode has more output but my refineries are nowhere near my alumina processing plant, and the coke was being used for electrode circuit boards.

[vapid gorge]

Sloppy takes out the step where you have waste silica and can process greater volume per machine

Electrode is slight buff to output and it’s generally easier piping a small amount of oil instead of tons of coal

Pure ignores needing huge amounts of silica for the ingots at the cost of some output

[vapid gorge]

See for me it was easier using 2 pipes for the 980 oil than multiple multiple train cars for the thousands of coal pm

Just so much coal

[cinder silo]

I scrapped together all the crap coal nodes, did some belt magic to make them in to four good inputs and fed that in, It's only more recently I'm preparing to move some refineries to the dunes, I just cba to change it all now.

[vapid gorge]

That’s fair, I put my refineries north of the blue crater. Just had 2 pipes 1.5km long.
You and your infinite belts

[vapid gorge]

Pretty sure you need more than 4 mk5 belts for all bauxite though

[cinder silo]

Yep, four mk5's carry coal, six mk5's for the bauxite.

[median heath]

Sloppy + Electrode vs. Instant

Both have the same return on Scrap per Bauxite.
Your choice is Coke vs. Coal.

If Coke: Sloppy + Electrode
If Coal: Instant

[median heath]

Not sure why you didn't mention Instant at all 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

I forgot about instant tbh.

[median heath]

The 2 methods are equivalent in terms of resource-efficiency.

[cinder silo]

Ahh that's why I didn't instant scrap, cba with more sulphuric acid after two nuclear refineries were making it, and I blew all the sulphur anyhow.

[median heath]

You can do max nuke + instant and still have enough sulfur for a couple hundred batteries/min

And with the fluid load bug gone Instant got even better given the water byproduct is 1:1 with the acid intake.

[cinder silo]

That fluid load issue caused me no end of grief, It caused me to axe two closed loops.

The most annoying break down was the attempt at recycling water/acid at the sulphuric & nitric refinery.

[vapid gorge]

I’m not McGal :p

[vapid gorge]

Ah so not all bauxite processed. 2 pipes of oil does all 9800 bauxite

[vapid gorge]

And you forgot about instant because when you take into account logistics it’s worse for processing all bauxite and only kinda convenient for small amounts in specific locations.

[median heath]

Fair, and I understand preference.
That's why is just list that both are equal 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

I didn't feel like routing ten belts of bauxite, I'm already needing to tie in a seventh as a parity belt due to the monster distances covered by my bauxite highway and belts not giving their advertised speed.

[vapid gorge]

While the strict resource efficiency is a thing I don’t see any way to not have instant be a nightmare to sort for high volume needs

[ivory warren]

sulfuric though?

[cinder silo]

I have 1020 sulphur left over, some of that is going in to ammunition production, the rest I have batteries in mind.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah because of the specific resources you need for instant it can be quite awkward to bring everything in.

There ARE a few spots where instant is pretty convenient though, it just depends how much aluminium you need

IMO- if you need lots - sloppy electrode.

A bit? Find the 2-3 spots that’s nice for instant

[cinder silo]

I forgot about my baby aluminium refinery that's embedded in the nuke facility haha, one bauxite node for heat sinks.

[fierce ruin]

Ok so I read up a bit of head lift and I just needed more pumps on the vertical pipe, instead of all along the full pipe network. Now my single pipe is enough for the 6 Gens. Which means I'm wasting only a minor amount of petroleum coke. I've switched of the last 2 and am sinking the extra for now.

[median heath]

What about it?

[ivory warren]

seems excessive

[median heath]

What else are you using sulfur for?

[ivory warren]

fair I guess

I was planning to share some production with turbofuel but I guess I could split it up

[median heath]

Why are you doing turbo instead of nuclear?

[ivory warren]

I'll get to nuclear eventually

[median heath]

Diluted Fuel is more than enough to get you to nuclear.

[median heath]

Like I said, you can do max nuke + all bauxite into instant and still have sulfur left for a couple hundred batteries/min

[cinder silo]

I still have both running, is it smart? hell no, but I wasn't having coffee stain kill off my turbo fuel power station by nuking the biome it was in so I moved it.

[median heath]

The point I'm making is that Sulfuric isn't really a factor in the decision.

It is as simple as Coke vs. Coal.

If Coke: Sloppy + Electrode
If Coal: Instant

Pick your black rock and go. 🤷‍♂️

Specific to the original question of "Aluminium meta?"

[ivory warren]

ok

[median heath]

I gotchu 👍

[cinder silo]

Oops, I missed the start of the discussion and went off on one haha, sorry.

[untold glade]

should i start optimizing everything from the beggining or should i get to the final stage and then build everything perfectly?

[vocal tundra]

Get to the final stage and build everything perfectly

[frosty owl]

Imo, option 1 (do everything "perfect") will require tons of time and probably end up with either multiple factories that "were ideal once" or you reworking everything in endgame anyway (or new-game). But you'll definetly gain LOTS of experience.
Option 2 (get to final stage first) makes it easier to design factories in their "final stage" (end-game stage) so will require less time to complete your factories and playthrough overall, but may result in lack of experience in certain aspects of optimization (game progression offers some interesting challenges in that regard) or even you being overwhelmed by the amount of tasks and possible solutions you would have to face at once when reaching the end-game planning stage

I suggest a mix of the 2: spend some time optimizing things, wherever you have fun doing it and/or think it could be an interesting experience

[untold glade]

thanks, i think i will choose option 2 bcs im more interestend in pure optimizing than spending time on learning how to do it in every game phase and rebuilding everything

[frosty owl]

Oh no, I'm not talking about rebuilding.
Just to clarify, I meant something like: spending time to make a nice and thought out setup where you would have otherwise just slapped down machines. (Again, just in some setups, if your interest arises)
So you already get some reference points like: I prefer having this amount of space for beltwork; or: having a subfloor might be a good idea next time... And so on

[unborn ermine]

iirc option 1 is more like make a base factory(or whats needed) for a tier and move on to the next step.
A good example from me
My brain had done enough oil before, I couldnt understand why I couldnt go straight to fuel power because I was so used to it

[untold glade]

yea i know what you saying, i think its just easier for me to plan everything prefectly and then build it on final stage

[frosty owl]

I don't get what you mean, in the example

[untold glade]

sry for english but its not my first language

[unborn ermine]

I was trying to get a fuel factory/powerplant setup and I had no plastic or rubber for like 30+ minutes and had to slap myself

[frosty owl]

Even just keeping an eye on things with optimization in mind throughout the playthrough can help a lot in achieving what I mentioned too 👍
In the end, whatever is funner is best

[frosty owl]

We mistake today to do better another day

[unborn ermine]

I said screw it and just turned two of the impure nodes at spiral coast to plastic and rubber(recycled) and called it a day last night.
Theres a really nice spot over the water to the east of the nodes that is too shallow for extractors that fits the setup perfectly in a nice cube/rectangle.

looking at it now I could have snuggled it up to the wall of the area a bit.
But its workable.

That one extractor is the closest one you can build, and where I bridged its too shallow, yet you can place more in the area.

[median heath]

Late reply but:

If this is your first run, just wait until T7 to start caring.
On subsequent runs you'll use what you've learned and build more optimally from the beginning without even really thinking about it.

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, with that note, this little thing I posted is my temp setup for instance

[untold glade]

no its not my first run but im playing first time in 6 months

idk if there were any big changes

[unborn ermine]

I think the biggest changes were in the M.A.M. and maybe some bits and bobs under the hood.

[vocal tundra]

The weapons mabye?

If its exp

[unborn ermine]

Well yeah weapons dont do much these days though

[vocal tundra]

True the animals will lose all consciousness even if you go near them

[unborn ermine]

technically still MAM work though

[vocal tundra]

TRUE

Spire coast rework

[median heath]

Not to building designs, no.

Unless you've never done mixed belts, then you could learn that this run.

Life-changing.

[radiant ermine]

hey guys, a question on heavy turbo fuel, I know that with more oil and less sulfur it isn't a good alt straight away. but something I'm missing in the comparisons: let's say you're starting with the original input of normal turbofuel, switch to heavy turbofuel and use the remaining fuel directly for power, do you still get less power in total?

[median heath]

Never use Heavy Turbo.
Ever.

Why not? - Aside from all the standard "why are you even doing Turbo?" responses - way too high of a sulfur cost for what you're doing.

[cursive garnet]

Turbofule for life ggez

[median heath]

^ Troll

[radiant ermine]

good to know!

[median heath]

Basically once you get to Fuel you choose if you want to do Turbo or Nuclear.
Normal fuel is more than enough to get either option online but there is no reason to do both.

With U6, the primary use for Turbofuel is making bullets.

[quartz violet]

Or vehicles if you have a really stupidly long route for 1 vehicle instead of a train for whatever reason

Although you could have a few intermediate truck stops where a truck drops off normal fuel that just loops directly into the fuel input and that would negate needing the extra whatever percentage more efficient of a vehicle fuel turbo fuel is

[median heath]

Batteries.

Vehicles run on Coal until they can run on Fuel until they can run on Batteries.

Simple.

[quartz violet]

Well yeah but don't spoil the fun of having pit stops on my hypothetical sugarcube tractor Daytona 500

Maybe I need to make that no longer hypothetical

[fierce ruin]

Pipeline Engineering Mk.2 unlocked, now to upgrade that pipe and pumps so I can bring the last 2 on and remove the sync 🙂

[fierce ruin]

Screws are like Gold in this game!

[quartz violet]

Really annoying make

[median heath]

We have eliminated Gold from almost every production item except 1?

Failing to see comparison.

[wind spade]

also, "sync"?

[fierce ruin]

Lucky I made each area have it's own Screw supply, mostly with cast screws, then into reserves mid line so I have an absolute ton in excess, I figured I would be good for a long while then came along computer automation and I was like, we need a lot more.

[median heath]

Get computer alts ASAP.
Base recipe suuuuuuuucks.

[fierce ruin]

Oops, I meant awesome sink

[fierce ruin]

Yeah, I want copper rotor as well so going on a HD search again shortly.

[median heath]

Copper Rotor should be the only thing you use Screws for.

[fierce ruin]

Just need to find it!

[cedar mica]

Bolted Frame and Bolted Iron Plate, is quite decent, for reducing the size of your Heavy Modular Frame build

[quartz violet]

Yeah that's what I keep saying

You need a few screws but it's a somewhat okay amount of screws

[cedar mica]

With Steel Screw, so can you do a 1:1 setup, quite easy. Meaning no clogged belts

[quartz violet]

I have only actually gotten steel screws on 1 save

Never seen it since

[fierce ruin]

I got Steel Screw Alt last night, I just need to set it up.

[median heath]

Bolted being "decent"...
And I thought this was the meta channel.

[wind spade]

oh god

[median heath]

If you're saving space use Steel Screw.
If you want resource-efficient use Steel Rod and the base Screw recipe.

[fierce ruin]

Ideally everything efficient, but got to get there, working on unlocking tier 7 next.

[median heath]

There is only 1 recipe in the game that is "everything efficient".
Everything else is a trade.

And that 1 recipe needs a fucking nerf.

[fierce ruin]

Tell me more?

[timber flare]

Cast screw is same ratio. no need for rods

[wind spade]

same ratio = not resource efficient

since other recipes are more resource efficient than the base recipe

[timber flare]

There isnt one that is more resource efficient?

[wind spade]

steel rod -> base screw

[timber flare]

Uses coal

[median heath]

And......?

[wind spade]

is more resource efficient still 🤷‍♂️

[timber flare]

My point is base screw is as efficient as cast

No need for iron rods

[wind spade]

yes, and base screw is pretty bad in resource efficiency compared to steel rod -> screw

[median heath]

Base Screw + Base Rods = Cast Screw

Base Screw + Steel Rod > Cast Screw

[timber flare]

Ah got it

[median heath]

👍

[cursive garnet]

this is all in terms of iron though, considering that in terms of coal, steel rod -> screws is infinitely less efficient than normal rod -> screws

[median heath]

It is not all in terms of iron.

If it was, we would have said "in terms of just iron efficiency"

But we didn't.
We said "resource-efficiency".
Meaning total. All-inclusive.

[cursive garnet]

using any coal is infinitely less efficient than using no coal

[median heath]

Steel Rod + Base Screw is the total, all-inclusive, uncontested most resource-efficient way to make Screws.

[median heath]

This is just objectively false.

[cursive garnet]

explain then :)

If you want something to be efficient in x, and you have to processes where process 1 requires x but process 2 does not, then 2 is infinitely more efficient in terms of x than process 1 because it doesn't require it at all

[magic egret]

depends on the cost of coal, which here is determined by available quantity

[mystic moon]

Not neccecarily

[median heath]

This is my new favorite spelling.

[mystic moon]

If you're manufacturing something g with exclusively one material, but you can replace a portion of that material with another cheap material, and produce more, then your efficiency increases

[mystic moon]

Thanks lol

Mobile 🤮

[wind spade]

there are resource limits
resource limits are either global (whole map) or local (nearby nodes)

• at some point you may run out of iron
• nearby coal can boost screw production with steel recipes

because of that, math/meta community uses weighted points to calculate resource efficiency. Weighted points are basically [total all resources]/[total amount of resource X], or in other words, resources have more weight the more rare they are. f.e. if there is three times as much iron as copper, copper would have weight 3 and iron weight 1. This means that using 2.5 iron is more resource efficient than using 1 copper.

Using these weighted points, steel rod -> base screw is the most resource efficient recipe

[wind spade]

so if I have a process that converts 1000 iron into 1 screw and another process that converts 1 iron and 1 coal into 1000 screws, the first one is more efficient by your definition 🤔

[cursive garnet]

that would be true, if I hadn't said multiple times that I framed the point around the fact that it was based on the efficiency relative to the individual resource, not total resources consumed

"If you want something to be efficient in x," "considering that in terms of coal" just to highlight twice where I made this point

[cursive garnet]

In terms of coal, the second one is technically less efficient because it uses coal

[wind spade]

so you mean "if we ignore iron cost completely, it's more efficient to do normal screws because they don't use coal"?

that hardly sounds like a good argument

[cursive garnet]

My point is that if you have no coal, then it doesn't matter how efficient using it is when you can only use iron

Just because 1 thing is the OVERALL most efficient thing does not make it the best thing to use in all situations, even if you're optimizing for efficiency /shrug

[wind spade]

there's 30k coal on the map. It's pretty hard to be in a "no coal available" situation

I never said "best". I said most resource efficient

[cedar mica]

There is always oil, you can use that instead of coal...

[magic island]

rarity is not necessarily the only factor. steel/coal has uses besides just making screws, so it may still be preferable to use iron-based screws so that more steel/coal can go elsewhere

WP is an informative metric based on resource rarity, but it doesn't have to be your absolute objective rule to follow

[wind spade]

iron also has uses besides making screws 🤷‍♂️

and again - I'm not saying (and never did) that "you need to use this recipe". I always talked just about it being most resource efficient.

[cedar mica]

Unless you are pushing map limits, there is not really an issue, what recipe you use

[dusky tundra]

oogaboooga

[magic island]

for practical purposes, local availability is more relevant than absolute availability on the map. so yeah, unless you're aiming to use up every node, your weightings would vary depending on the area you operate in

but then it gets squishy and subjective, soooo

[cursive garnet]

doesn't really get subjective, just becomes "what do I want to optimize for?" or more specifically: "what resource"

which can be an objective thing to determine given the available supply you have to work with

[cedar mica]

And thats why they are called Alternative Recipes. Because its just another tool for you to concider

[median heath]

Except for HOR... which needs a nerf...

[fierce ruin]

Ok so I built some Manufacturers and lets just say I'm near my power limits, time to try the Fuel generator. There is just so much to do argh!

[wind spade]

indeed. That's why I said "most resource efficient". Not "most resource efficient based on your own subjective weights"

[elder frost]

arguing with greeny on satisfactory math... not a good idea xD

Greeny, do you know the math behind the fluid splitters/mergers by chance?

[median heath]

Fluid doesn't have splitters or mergers unless you package it first.

[wind spade]

there are no fluid splitters and mergers

[elder frost]

pipe junctions same effect

[wind spade]

pipes are bi-directional and hence they don't work like belts

[median heath]

Not at all same

Do not think about pipes in terms of belts.

[elder frost]

if im looking to do a 3 to 2 combine whats the best option?

[wind spade]

|     |
+--+--+
|  |  |

[elder frost]

so all at center, then manifold outwards?

[wind spade]

basically don't ever think about "balancing pipes"

just hook them all together and as long as all segments are at/below 600m3 you're fine

[elder frost]

300 in my case but yea

[median heath]

Belts send items where you tell them to.
Fluids in pipes go where they can.

[elder frost]

im still on mk1s

if i was on 2s this would be easy

[wind spade]

honestly if you have 3 pipes, I'd just use 3 pipes

[elder frost]

its the condense at gens that needs to be sorted

plugging 3 into 8

[wind spade]

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

build at water, not at coal

[elder frost]

64 gens, build where space xD

[wind spade]

space is everywhere 🤷‍♂️

[elder frost]

im in the double lakes,

[wind spade]

you can just build platforms where you need

[elder frost]

water from the upper building over the lower

for context

[fierce ruin]

I take it back Heavy Modular Frame is the worst so far.

[median heath]

Still in the tutorial mate.
Wait until you get to the start of the game. 😁

[fierce ruin]

Oh my lol, my OCD will be making this a long game. I just unlocked trains, and I can't believe how big the stations are.

[median heath]

I'd say keep using truck stations until you need a train for something.

[fierce ruin]

I haven't even looked at trucks yet.

[median heath]

You got to trains without looking at Trucks at all...

For entirety of T3-4.
They gave you truck stops and even told you to outpost and you said "nah, fuck that"

?????????

[fierce ruin]

I'm just unlocking everything, I have most of my stuff contained in a huge area. Now trains I have a soft spot for, I come from another factory game where I did everything by trains.

[vocal tundra]

it didnt start with f did it...

[median heath]

Oh you're one of those..

I'm going to state a fact and what you choose to do with it is up to you:

The best practice for logistics is using all 3 methods: trucks, trains, and drones, in concert.

If you want to trains-only because you enjoy being sub-optimal, knock yourself out. 👍

[fierce ruin]

I'm happy to utilise all methods, I'm not using trains either yet, I simply went to place the station to have a look. When I do use vehicles I'll start with Trucks, thanks for the input.

[median heath]

When I say "Trucks" I mean "Explorers".

Uncontested best trucking vehicle and needs a nerf. But until then 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

Hmm I do have a Caterium Factory I could bring over the Quickwire with a truck, was meaning to belt it but may as well try them out.

[magic island]

vehicles tend to unlock in tandem with resources they synergize well with

coal & ground vehicles: the cargo serves as the fuel. handy! coal is always a competitive choice for vehicle fuel because you just plop down a miner and ta-dah

oil & trains: multiple products, coming from a location some distance from your base

nitro & drones: drones nullify distance and can trade resources easily, so trading full canisters for empty is a decent choice for those far-off nitro nodes

[median heath]

Pro-tip for fueling them:
When you get to Drones just run both your Drone network and Truck network on Batteries.
1 fueling source for both simplifies things.

[median heath]

Truck stops handle multiple items just fine 🤷‍♂️
People just fear sushi.

[magic island]

sure, but trains excel at it

[median heath]

Define excel?
Because trucks are superior all the way up to 1560 throughput.

Only beyond that do trains take over.

[fierce ruin]

Thanks for the input both, right trucks it is then, oh and then a Fuel plant. I swear this game is a second job

[median heath]

Fuel = yes.
Turbofuel = just do nuclear...

[vocal tundra]

turbo fuel, biggest waste of sulphur since idfk

[fierce ruin]

Ok no idea what Turbo Fuel is but I'll stick with regular.

[median heath]

It's great for making bullets 👍

[fierce ruin]

I think I've seen you mention that lol

[median heath]

It was good prior to U4.

Then they added plutonium and it became... a choice.

[fierce ruin]

I played back in early 2020, then started again 2 weeks ago, so not sure if that was before it was changed.

[magic island]

idk, part of the appeal of trains is the built-in organization. it's an intangible, but I enjoy the tidiness of a dedicated platform per item

I might sometimes make a sushi platform at a train station, but distinct cars appeal to me

[pulsar gale]

So I have to split 150 Rods into 15 constructors making Screws needing an input of 10 Rods per minute each.

How on earth do I split this and do the math?

[median heath]

If it's about avoiding sushi then I concede the point.
Which is why I made the remark about people fearing it.

[median heath]

Manifold.
No math required.

[vocal tundra]

Thats the neat part, you don't

[median heath]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[pulsar gale]

🤯

[median heath]

Welcome to Satisfactory.
Where resources are infinite so you don't build the way you did in Fucktorio 🙃

[pulsar gale]

I've just been doing simple division for all of my factories lol I didn't even know this existed.

Well time to read up I guess.

[median heath]

This works until you start doing things in hundreds per minute, like you just got to.

[magic island]

eventually you end up with what are basically firehoses of ingots etc, and machines that siphon amounts off that are too oddball to bother precisely dividing

that said, I hate looking at stopped conveyors, so I make my manifold splitters hug the machine inputs as closely as possible :p

[pulsar gale]

So basically if I manifold, as long as I have enough of the iron ore required to fuel the smelters for example I do not need to divide anything really ever? Also I need to make sure my conveyor throughput is sufficient aswell right?

[vocal tundra]

as long as you wait for it to spool up or prefill the machines you will be fine

[pulsar gale]

Ahh so I can't just run it all at the same time. Gotta wait for the smelters to fill.

Or well, the conveyors to back up

[vocal tundra]

yeah but agter that they run at the same time

it shouldnt take too long

[median heath]

Yes. The only math required is total sum.

[pulsar gale]

Injected Manifold is I'm guessing when you don't have enough conveyor throughput?

[magic island]

the main drawback (which doesn't really come up til lategame) is when you have an item that produces in extremely small quantities (cough, nuclear fuel rods). i do not recommend manifolding those

[median heath]

Prefeeding the system is highly recommended though.

[pulsar gale]

Noted! Do not manifold nuclear fuel rods.

[pulsar gale]

Ok so I'll make sure to wait sure for it all to fill up.

Anything else cool and fancy methods I should know for future?

[median heath]

Pre-feed is about skipping the "fill up" step.

[pulsar gale]

How do you mean?

[median heath]

Put stuff in machines by hand from your inventory.

[magic island]

until the line is balanced, the first machines in line will get the most, and last machines the least.

filling up the machines at the start will let them start immediately and balance faster

[pulsar gale]

Ahhh, gotcha!

Thank you so much. Good job you told me because I was about to redo my entire Rotor factory.

[median heath]

Way that I prefeed:
Build miners, connect them to a storage container, let them run while I am building Smelters.
Take ore from containter, pre-feed smelters, hook miners to smelters and hook Smelters to storage while I build Constructors.

Repeat. Let each stage fill a container while you build the next stage. Then use said container to pre-feed.
Takes out the whole "waiting" step.

[pulsar gale]

That seems a very efficient way to do things. I shall be doing that now.

[median heath]

Most of the ways I do things are classified as such 🙂

[vapid gorge]

It just takes a few minutes to spin up, but that just means you go work on something else

[pulsar gale]

Aha trade secrets I see.

[median heath]

Cobalt is the one to talk to about clipping 🤢

I respect his art, but I could never.

[vapid gorge]

Clip everything yes

[pulsar gale]

Yeah I'm not bothered how long it takes just as long as it works and I'm not creating a massive mess of spliters trying to divide 1080 worth of screws.

[vapid gorge]

Oh good tip- find distant coal nodes near water and build power there. Don’t use your nearby coal for power

[vapid gorge]

Well, once you get special enough you can just get rid of screws. But you need to be a lvl 33 factory zen master

[pulsar gale]

Yeah I don't. I'm in the northern forest near this massive lake and 2 coal nodes. Got 36 gens running right now but I'm gonna need way more so I'll import coal in from else where.

[vapid gorge]

Don’t bother importing, just burn it on location

[pulsar gale]

I'm guessing hard drives = new recipes?

What about if there is no water there. Then can I import it to my massive lake?

Its just to get me through to the next phase anyway when I can get OIL

[vapid gorge]

I’d just find coal next to water. Lots of spots like that

[pulsar gale]

Fair enough. I'll pack up some gear and go on a little adventure.

[median heath]

Tutorial is fun times.

[pulsar gale]

I've not played since update 3 so yeah I kinda needed it.

I just hope the next update doesn't break my goddamn save

But knowing satisfactory it probably will...

[median heath]

I always do a Hub0 reset each update 🤷‍♂️

[vocal tundra]

its satisfactory, it probably will 🙂

[median heath]

Also when they do the total recipe balance pass... everything will break.

[vocal tundra]

cant wait to restart for the 7,000,000th time

[median heath]

But that will probably be closer to 1.0

[pulsar gale]

I am quite sentimental. It will be hard saying goodbye to all that hard work. But it would probably be more effort fixing all my factories from re-balances like you said.

[median heath]

?
It's not goodbye to hard work.
It's taking what you learned into the next run.

[median heath]

I'm on my 16th run.

[pulsar gale]

Damn that hit the heart.

[vocal tundra]

yeah im on my 6th or 7th

[pulsar gale]

I am quite excited for what 1.0 actually is gonna be. I am quite confused on how they are gonna like "finish" the game.

[median heath]

All story in that department.

[pulsar gale]

Hmm. It is quite interesting. ADA talking to me about illnesses and a world president calling for alien artifacts is quite the something.

Anyways enough theorizing its time to satisfactory this factory.

Thank you very much all for the help.

[vocal tundra]

harvest the artifacts

comply

[vapid gorge]

Have they actually talked about a total recipe rebalance?

[median heath]

Snutt mentioned it when explaining why beacons are still in the game.

[vapid gorge]

Riiiiiiight. Welp will have to mod the old recipes back in

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[cinder silo]

A recipe rebalance is probably the only thing that will truly break my save.

[median heath]

That or them making the death zone immediately under the map.

[unborn ermine]

ooo or a bunch of caves for updates
you know to flesh out the map for story

[cinder silo]

That is probably one thing I'd look in to modding out since I'd take it as a targeted nerf aimed directly at me 😛

[median heath]

Also Mods 🤢

[cinder silo]

And I dislike mods!

[unborn ermine]

🤏

[median heath]

+1 to friendship

[unborn ermine]

I cant even think of mods tbh, I havent broken the game yet.

[median heath]

I know the only one I'd ever use. But it doesn't fully exist yet.

[cinder silo]

Sooner or late I'll build so much my save will crash my pc again.

[supple belfry]

The game, in my mind, is more like a model railroad than an actual, proper game. Figure modding is akin to someone using different materials for their track models or something. Not cheating; just customizing their play.

I play a pretty “mod lite” version. Definitely didn’t enjoy the hard drive hunting, so I unlocked the recipes with a mod to save myself the 3-4 hours of doing it manually.

[cinder silo]

I built trains for an in-game model railroad, the crashes were epic.

[ruby glen]

Is this too much?

[median heath]

I can't zoom far enough to see...

[ruby glen]

I feel like I spend half my time in my spreadsheet. lol

Is that better?

[median heath]

Wait. You're asking if something is "too much" and you're making only 1 Oscillator/min?

[ruby glen]

I mean making a spreadsheet for a video game. Is the idea of spending half my time in my spreadsheet vs playing too much

[median heath]

Not really 🤷‍♂️

If you haven't looked at Tools yet, that will save you a lot of time.

Top link in the first pin in this channel.

[last pollen]

are the the optimal recipes i should be using for the best oil:plastic ratio?

[ivory warren]

lol?

[unborn ermine]

Just missing a few steps.

[last pollen]

dude thank you so much

how do you input it into the calculator to give you that

[median heath]

Use Tools

[unborn ermine]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[median heath]

Not Calculator.

[unborn ermine]

Calculator is hard for me to look at honestly

[median heath]

Same.

Cult of Tools is superior.

[vapid gorge]

And mods dislike you 😛

[vapid gorge]

Not utilitarian enough. Needs more complexity to the point that only you could understand it

[ruby glen]

lol

[vapid gorge]

See? Perfectly logical spreadsheet

[fleet summit]

pt_BR

[vapid gorge]

Had to translate estoque real quick XD

Interesting that you made a plan that required manual input?

[fleet summit]

every factory I create, I have a spreadsheet in excel, so I always know what is being produced, the materials that come in (where it comes from), the materials that are created (and where it goes)

[vapid gorge]

but if it's from your inventory that's not a sustainable system right?

[fleet summit]

all my factories, send an X value for the main stock

for each factory there is a train (taking and bringing products to the main stock)

[vapid gorge]

That seems like a LOT of updating on your part

[fleet summit]

🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

Do what makes you happy 🙂
My bit is a logistic layout so I have a map of all the pipes and belts and how many of what units will be moving at any point. That way I can plan logistic corridors and factory layouts

[fleet summit]

100% understood

👏

[vapid gorge]

I'm impressed XD

[remote ice]

hmm. Interesting.

a 3775 meter long power line.

oh this is the wrong channel.

[proper elk]

All goods

[frosty owl]

I quote enjoyed drive-hunting

... The first three times or so

[vocal tundra]

Yeah it gets a bit repetitive after the first 30

[median heath]

It's 100x better with multiple body slots tbh.

[vocal tundra]

^this

[frosty owl]

Good point. I haven't even reached drive-hunting in my U6 playthrough before getting bored of it 😅

[timber flare]

Jetpack + Bladerunners is a beautifull thing

[vocal tundra]

+gas mask +hazmat suit

[timber flare]

Eh high new regen makes that irrelevant

Just dont stay in the cloud silly

[cinder silo]

Yay, found a relic of old automation in my warehouse, 4 industrial cans full of beacons!.

[supple belfry]

Just not my jam. The game consumes enough of my life as it is 🙃

I also play with the PowerSuit mod, although I may give that one up with U6.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah, remind me of a mod 😛

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[cinder silo]

Beacons deleted! along with their factory, good riddance.

[frosty owl]

Petition to convince CS to classify multiple body slots unlock a "mod" ||so Sevrahn can't use them ||

[fierce ruin]

When you unlock Tier 7 and 8 and you suddenly realise that you're in deep, OMG!

Tier 6 was end game back in 2020, so much new stuff to build, I swear this game is like adult Lego.

[deft lichen]

Tier 7 was added in U2, that was summer 2019

[fierce ruin]

Wait, was it. Maybe I quit at Tier 6 then, I though I was done on that old save, I don't recall doing Alloy though.

[vital garden]

that's the last time I played, then I did a reset and im currently working on tier 8 rn

[burnt cove]

What’s the tipping point where trains are worthwhile versus belt highways? Each freight car has a throughput of two belts (at the load/unload) so is it when you have 4+ belts of throughput?
Is there an ideal train configuration? Is it better to run multiple trains of 1engine4freight, or one long train?

[median heath]

If all you care about is throughput, belts win.

No, a single platform CANNOT actually do 2 belts of throughput.

I'm hurt that you don't even consider trucks, given a truck stop CAN do 2 belts of throughput.

P.S. highest theoretical throughput for trains is:

Fewer trains with more cars on longer routes.
-Train +Cars +RouteTime

Change any of the signs and you've lowered your max throughput per platform.

[hazy saffron]

You can have more than one train platform

Trains don't take up as much space

And the tracks can be occupied by other things

[gray flower]

ITS AMBER!

[hazy saffron]

Generally the difference is less throughput and more distance tho

[median heath]

Trains don't take as much space??

The most space-costing logistical method doesn't take as much space???

[hazy saffron]

For cross map solutions at the same throughput

You need two conveyors per platform, if you're doing 4:1 trains that's 8 conveyors to match up to the platforms.

That takes up quite a bit of space running across the map that could be better done with a train

[median heath]

8 conveyors does more than 4 platforms

[hazy saffron]

By like, half a conveyor or some shit.

[median heath]

Because platforms are incapable of reaching 1560.

[hazy saffron]

You can't have a fractional conveyor

[gray flower]

plan your FACTORY ahead of time

[hazy saffron]

You still need to build the full conveyor to transport the items

[median heath]

Yes.
I'm not saying trains are bad. I never have.

[hazy saffron]

And I'm not saying they're perfect

There's a reason I said "the difference is less throughput and more distance"

[median heath]

They shouldn't be.

[hazy saffron]

Conveyors running across the map is dumb

Trains transporting things less than 1 km is dumb

[median heath]

Their current flaws are the only things keeping trains balanced atm.

Just hurt the OP doesn't even acknowledge truck stops 😭

[hazy saffron]

For real

I don't like them because trucks are clunky but they're def a valid option

[median heath]

Explorers 😁

Need to be nerfed, but until they are they are uncontested the best trucking vehicle.

[hazy saffron]

Nah

Factory carts are the real meta

Sure they carry only one stack of cargo

But they don't need fuel

[median heath]

Now you're just memeing.

[remote ice]

trucks aren't practical for very large factories

at least, i suspect they arent

having 50 trucks is probably a lot laggier than 100 train cars

[oblique hollow]

uncertain actually

im not sure when someone last ran a performance test

[vapid gorge]

Proof Sev hates trains!

[cinder silo]

Hmm, who pinged me with what ? 😛

[vapid gorge]

Not no one no how.

[remote ice]

it is uncertain, but frankly i expect (and hope) that trains are better. Coffee Stain would have to have really screwed up to have a truck be more efficient than a collisionless, literally-on-rails vehicle

still worth testing though

[oblique hollow]

i guess it depends on if you are near them or not

because out of range, trucks are trains

they run on splines

no physics

[remote ice]

oh really?

i wasn't aware of that at all, that explains a lot actually

i always wondered how they managed to drive around when we know that terrain isn't physically simulated at a distance. I figured maybe they kept terrain loaded near them or something

[oblique hollow]

nah they just float along their spline path

thats also what you see when they get far away from you

they smoothly move along the recorded path spline

no physics there

once they get within range of you, they suddenly use physics again

[fierce ruin]

Yeah, I played like 170hrs back then. I just started a fresh save 2 weeks ago to see how the game was getting on, and well now I'm at 230hrs with about the same progress as before so learned a lot. The game is amazing for an EA title.

[fringe pawn]

Are pipe manifolds fine to have more than 600 in the system, as long as you have a loop in there? 3 sloppy alumina feeding into 4 electrode machines, for instance.

[magic egret]

its fine as long as you dont try to push more than 600/min through any part of it

[fringe pawn]

Should be well under, it's the same principle we always tell beginners with coal power and water extractors

[sullen cloud]

Yes, in general that works. Have been running a similar setup for hundreds of hours for alu production

[river night]

dont think in terms of "total troughput", just make sure any one pipe segment isnt required to exceed the limit

it actually calculates it for every segment, so its all fine

[stiff phoenix]

Been playing with oil math for a bit. Can anyone confirm if this is correct? Starting work now so won't be around until my break (whenever that is).

[wind spade]

seems there are a few mistakes