math-and-meta

[frosty owl]

Never done that, but sure, some may do that.
I don't think that's a good enough reason to justify having extra processing machines properly belted and positioned in order to deal with with excess productions from systems that haven't been built with overflow in mind

[wind spade]

idk, I always build slightly more of stuff in vital systems, where stuff backing up can mess up a lot of stuff

[proven prawn]

true and in such systems the only solution would be to rebuild the entire thing from scratch with that in mind

[frosty owl]

Eh, depending on the setup, one could just add smart splitters for overflow wherever needed, but still... Even in the best case scenario, changing a setup from "no overflow" to "all overflows" is not a small thing

[proven prawn]

you can preciously now wait to for all of your machines to clog now, as its now utterly impossible to do sushi into single inputs on machines and have it run properly without failing

[frosty owl]

I'm on the other hand of the spectrum in that regard, but I think it's fair to say a good portion of people don't do as you do simply to build "just as much as necessary" outside of some situations (eg: using up all a node, want all the concrete!, whatever)

[proven prawn]

which is kind of unfortunate i did like that previous sushi rod plant you made...i wonder if there is anyway to fix it with this information being true....hmmm maybe but would require alot of rework

can do sushi still but do have to use all inputs for all machines now, noway around that hmmmm

[frosty owl]

Tbf, I think I'll still do it (single-input feeds) in some situations:

1. Direct inputs: whenever I simply merge stuff to feed something eg: stuff for a single beacon manufacturer). Item duplication shouldn't affect this.
2. Big stack sizes. Eg: beacons, oscillators and ECRs for UFRs (low throughput) or Wire + Steel Pipes for Stators (decent stack sizes)

[frosty owl]

Manifold sushi with overflow connection FTW 😅

[proven prawn]

well still fail at some point because of item duplication regardless of stack sizes, so you would have to use inputs for each item required, otherwise your back to the current problem, where the machines clog at some point, best you would be doing is delaying when that point happens

[wind spade]

or have slightly more processing

and hope the duplication bug duplicates items roughly equally between types

[proven prawn]

yes just do whatever and pray it all works despite the item duplication that happens at splitters...sounds like a great solution🤦‍♂️

yes lets just do this thing that we know can cause issues and pray to the rng gods it doesn't happen.....

[wind spade]

statistically the duplication in sushi setups should happen "in correct ratio", so just increasing consumption capability should be theoretically enough

[frosty owl]

Oh, I forgot to elaborate on that (point 2)

I expected a MAX duplication in my systems of roughly 2 items per load for every consumer machine (accounting for the max number of splitters I usually use per-machine). This is in the worst case scenario of 780/min throughput with 6 splitters involved, in practice I think I could bring it down to 1 item every 2/3 loads when the throughput is lower and less splitters are involved. So with stack sizes of 200 and over this gives me an upper limit that I think I won't personally pass

TLDR: given big enough stack sizes and few splitters used, I can have more than ~150 loads of the save before expecting issues. That many (for how I play) are fine for systems I'm willing to go "clear up" after a long while, if I can get to 300+ "safe saves" I'd just forget about it.

[frosty owl]

That's... An interesting point
Though, the issues would still be

1. bad RNG might cause an item to duplicate up to stack size long before any other
2. Single-input would still be a no-no

I stand on the opinion that having dedicated setups dealing with overflow is the "cleanest" solution

[wind spade]

I assumed smart sushi setups 🤔

and yeah, bad RNG can still fuck you up, but it's less likely to happen

cleanest is still no sushi 😛

[ornate shoal]

how about it's a bug and should be fixed 🤨

[frosty owl]

I beg to differ on most multi-input production lines

[wind spade]

we've made most of the bugs into features already, this won't be any different

[frosty owl]

Hopefully... Together with the precision issues (maxed belts/pipes, fluid load)

[ornate shoal]

didn't some streamer guy have a ticket duplication machine 😄 i guess that's a feature

[proven prawn]

this a big assumption, because your assuming a, duplication happens evenly and both of them would have to be inside of splitter at the same, and there certainly is no guarantee of that one, especially for a bug that isn't intended behavior, meaning your so called correct ratio, over x period would become unbalanced, causing the issue of clogging mentioned.

[wind spade]

assuming a duplication happens when item is in certain state in the splitter (which means e.g. one or more concrete ticks in the item's lifetime), the chances of each item-type being in that state would be in ratio to each other (based on ratio of items on the sushi belt). So assuming you do a lot of save-loads, you should get duplicated items roughly in the correct ratio

I'm not saying it is correct after one save-load. I'm saying it'll (statistically) even out over multiple save loads

[proven prawn]

yep so more assuming and praying to the rng that always holds true, which there is definitely no guarantee of.

[wind spade]

and also this ^

[wind spade]

hence why I mentioned "statistically" and "theoretically" 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

This could be stress-tested easily:

-Make a row of foundries (or anything else with >1 input, recipe is not important) needing X/min of item A and Y/min of B, EXACTLY.
-Feed them all via a sushifold, overflowing at the end (so the only thing coming out would be duplicated items that can't be consumed)
-Add one foundry at the end of the line using up the overflow

Now let the system run (prime all but the last refinery if you wish to speed things up) and start saving-loading the hell out of it

[proven prawn]

you might but item duplication is going to cause such designs to ultimately fail, as its now impossible to properly balance, so i see no way around having to use the required inputs for machines given this information, your welcome to try to make it work, but its safe to say all bets are off.

[frosty owl]

You might have answered the wrong message... 🤔

Regardless, as I said, I know (quite for certain) that I won't load a savefile more than a certain amount of times. The bigger the savefile, the LESS I wanna load it 😅
So if a system can run for >300 loads without issues, I can think of it as safe (again, FOR ME)

[solid crystal]

the solution for nuclear waste is not hard. You swap splitters in your manifold for smart splitters with an overflow. All overflow lines feed to another building that handles the occasional "duplication". This is not "my whole planet is doomed" kind of a problem. Anything that is duplicated in the buffer feeds into the overflow, and if your system was somewhat balanced before (ie, you have just enough buildings to handle the waste), then the extra building would only ever be handling the duplicated stuff from the splitter.

[burnt wraith]

Making things robust by accounting for a margin of error is part of playing games and just dealing with computers in general for me

[wind spade]

which is basically the same as "expand waste processing plant to allow for slightly more consumption than your planned production", as I suggested

[solid crystal]

sure.

[ornate shoal]

looks a bit wonky, but this is a belt limiter for 780 belt that can substract up to 60 items, with resolution of 1 item, if my test is correct

[primal dock]

does quicksave quickload work in the game ?

[median heath]

I don't even know what that is.

[primal dock]

press F5 to quicksave the game and F8 to quickload is the normal buttons.

[median heath]

Are those listed as hotkeys in Satisfactory or are you just assuming because other games use it, this one automatically does?

[primal dock]

seem like the wording was wrong i was asking if there is a feature to quicksave that is put in the game 🙂

[vapid estuary]

there isn't

[primal dock]

thanks

[vapid estuary]

however, F4 to instaquit, that's there :eyeroll:

[wind spade]

there's no "quicksave" as "quicksave" would be same speed as normal save, which isn't "quick" by any means

[tropic hawk]

It's fairly quick... In the early game.

[proven prawn]

sure besides this "feature" isn't documented and there is noway of knowing how many extra items are going to be made and that its more than just nuclear waste that its duplicated, its everything that is made from it also, because remember anywhere a splitter is used now is another place anywhere on your production line can now get extra items on it now.

And I don't think you see the degree of the problem, nuclear waste backing is one thing, sure my nuclear is shutdown now because more waste than was made for the original 2520 waste a min plan, but everything that was made from it has stopped functioning as well, because of the extra that was produced, all connected machines have stopped functioning as well, leading to the doomed scenario has more items of everything exists that is more than the system was made to handle.

so yes it is doomed in the aspect that the entire plant basically isnt functioning now because of it

[wind spade]

I mean you know the max limit of items duped

[solid crystal]

how often are you loading from save? LOL It's not like it continues to duplicate as you are playing. You know what...enjoy your doomed world. You're the same guy that was suggesting that hazmat suits not protect you while you are out exploring...which is EXACTLY when you'd want them to protect you. LOL Enjoy the game, or cry about the end of the world. I am moving on.

[proven prawn]

No your not understanding, but you do you👍

[proven prawn]

but yes there is a definite limit to it relative to the amount if splitters in a system, so it wouldn't be difficult to calculate what be the theoretical worst case, and this would be also be equal to the most that could be produced within a given instance, also because it would essentially a one time event per load in these cases, it wouldn't be a constant amount, so i imagine that as long as its correctly accounted for with being a overflow extra amount that can occasionally be made it wouldn't be hard to balance out a system as long as its taken into account.

[burnt wraith]

you can check the system and get a good idea of how much waste you need to overflow based on how backed up it is

[proven prawn]

every splitter would duplicate the waste, the non-fissile uranium, the plutonium pellets, the encased plutonium cells, it would all need to have a overflow end attached to it for separate processing to handle the extra that could arise from all of the uranium products, as each split, so yes that idea but it would have to be extended to cover the entire production chain

[tawny chasm]

quicksave is historically referring to a single keybind (to a hardcoded slot/file). with a corresponding quickload keybind. Fyi. obviously the save to file process is the same regardless. have you not played a game with quicksave/load? 😮

it's really more for like, FPS progression games when the music gets all ominous and you're like oh shit, big bad up ahead, better quicksave <jabs key>

Half-Life had it 😛

just fyi 😆 😊

[frosty owl]

Think about it this way: fluid load loss, vut in reverse

[wind spade]

I guess the joke about it not being quick was missed

[tawny chasm]

It was! 🤣

[zinc eagle]

is this tool showing /minute?

[wind spade]

where?

I don't see it anywhere (though the screenshot quality is bad so idk if I've missed something)

[burnt wraith]

The per minute is written on the arrows

[candid vault]

What tool is this?

[burnt wraith]

SCIM

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production

[candid vault]

Thanks

[oblique hollow]

@frosty owl i guess

The fucking fluid void bug was fixed

[wind spade]

fluids were fucking?

[oblique hollow]

you know that 5m³ that were missing from every machine upon loading the game?

that was fixed

[wind spade]

I know, I'm just fucking with you

patch notes don't mention that?

[oblique hollow]

im really mad that there is no mention of that in the notes, yea

[wind spade]

maybe it was a test fix and they want to see if it worked or not

also, was it really in this version?

[oblique hollow]

yes

according to Kyrium, who checked the header

there ewas a tag added to the FluidBox whatever so its now saved too

[wind spade]

oh nice

one bug down, 50 to go

[oblique hollow]

im making a QA post to complain about the lack of patch notes but also as a thank you

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/628f521cca608e0803511c75
here xd

[wind spade]

Type: Bug
Project: patch notes

[oblique hollow]

Bug in the patch notes

[frosty owl]

Couldn't we just ask the CMs?
Also, this comes right in time, I was debating someone over wether the bug existed or not and they were preparing a save to send... I guess now I can just share the good news

Do you know wether there have been any tests on it or if we can just assume the issue is fixed now?

[oblique hollow]

i did a test

im doing another right as we speak

[wicked tinsel]

Snutt not doing his job again? 😄

[oblique hollow]

snutt doesnt make patch notes

[frosty owl]

How'd it go?

[oblique hollow]

very good! no sloshing after a load, and no missing m³

ZERO.
SLOSHING.
NO.
FLUID.
LOST.

HAPPPPPPYYYYY

ITS A MIRACLE

[frosty owl]

That's great news. Imma be making a post about it, could you add some details on who and how they noticed the issue? (If I mention them, I wanna put the capital letters in the right places 😅)

[oblique hollow]

i complained to another user, Kyrium, who is a modder, that fluid dont save correctly.
He checked the FluidBox and saw a UPROPERTY (SaveGame) was added to it

and that was the most recent patch

[frosty owl]

Imma throw a quick at, given the interested person is online...
Quick question @cyan pendant: did you intentionally omit the "fluid load fix" from #patch-notes or was it forgotten?
Could you add details confirming it?

(Sorry if ping is inappropriate)

[oblique hollow]

i already pinged snutt in main chat and asked about it, i dunno if today they also have a holiday in sweden

[frosty owl]

Guess we'll wait and see~

[cyan pendant]

i forgor 💀

[oblique hollow]

whyyyyyyyyyy

can you edit the patchnotes then, or make a new small one?

this is very important since it affects a lot of things

[earnest glen]

so, with that resolved, you can forget about the whole overproduction with fluids involved

[oblique hollow]

yes

no more overproduction or underclocking gens

🥳

[earnest glen]

that small line of code is pretty big

🙂

[oblique hollow]

its a one-liner

but its at a very important place

[wicked tinsel]

knowing how bad this game is at maintaining precision

i doubt it changes much for the acid loop

[earnest glen]

i will monitor the fuel buffers on top of the fuel power plant the next days, maybe i'll even try to OC the last gen on the loop to match the math

[oblique hollow]

it does matter a lot

the fluids, despite all the precision shittery, get saved right and processed right

this 5m³ issue was the one and only reason 1 to 1 loops didnt work

[wicked tinsel]

if the difference is that your acid loop fails in 10 hours instead of 2 saves, it doesnt matter all that much

[wind spade]

shouldn't the acid loop now never fail?

[wicked tinsel]

the root question is if it can maintain fluid quantity

or due to imprecision it will decrease in time

[oblique hollow]

with this issue resolved, yes.

and any issue that removed fluid also adds it, according to Ben

[earnest glen]

anyhow this will not change my usual layout for working with fluids involving buffers at the end of the line. They are just for precaution, and i feel safer if they stay there and i can check them from time to time to see how "the line" is going

[wind spade]

buffers are just large pipes 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Thank you for confirming and not getting mad at our impatience 😁

[earnest glen]

I know, but ahestetically i prefer those

[frosty owl]

Love 'em to fill things faster and have a "handle" on the fluid's status

[stark bronze]

no more fluid void? cant imagine a patch being bigger than a major update

[oblique hollow]

aye, no more fluid void

[frosty owl]

FINALLY we can use fluid loops safely
I'm still wrapping my head around that, it's been so long since I used to include them in my factory-thinking...

[stark bronze]

got too excited and forgot that throughput problems probably arent all fixed yet

[oblique hollow]

yeah, buuut it does mean you should be able to do nuclear properly again, if you have stable 600 flow

[stark bronze]

added 4 more so all fuel can be used
6 of the existing ones died

[oblique hollow]

gotta wait for the fill of course

also..... is that network looped

if not, good luck getting good flow

[stark bronze]

they dont usually fill up even before the patch so no surprise here

[wind spade]

wait for fill = turn them on after they are filled, not keep them running and hope they fill

[vapid gorge]

wait is this about train moving fluids?

[earnest glen]

is about 5m loss bug

[wind spade]

fluid loss on load bug was fixed

[vapid gorge]

no freeaaakiing way 😄

[wind spade]

and @ Uzu forgot to mention it in patch notes

[vapid gorge]

cause there is no patch notes yeah

[wind spade]

so :blameuzu:

[wind spade]

#patch-notes message

[oblique hollow]

well its not mentioned in them

thats the thing

[wind spade]

yeah, I was just replying to "there is no patch notes"

[oblique hollow]

ah, right

[median heath]

New patch meta:
Don't mention the most important changes.

[vapid gorge]

wwait wait wait... does that mean we won't need VIP junctions anymore?

like... we're 100% sure there's ZERO loss?

[wind spade]

depends on setup. You still need it for priority, but 1:1 loops will work most likely

[glad vigil]

But are we sure that fluids don’t duplicate anywhere?

[wind spade]

the problem was not enough fluids, not too many 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

for other issues, that bug wasnt important

so for aluminum water byproduct, might still be needed

[earnest glen]

a question for you, @oblique hollow: in a VIP, in which pipes are not full all of the times (ex. using valves instead of pumps) is pretty normal that usually it works as intended but if upper pipe takes the lead it is less responsive in giving back the priority to the bottom one?

[oblique hollow]

not sure on that one tbh

i didnt test the VIP too intensively

[earnest glen]

I mean, that's what i notice in recycling excess fuel back into system in my actual fuel plant. Ended up limit the upper valve to the available capacity in bottom pipe (bottom: 400 by math, upper: limited 200) and solved the delay in switching priorities, but was just curiosity

[wicked tinsel]

tricky question to Ben and Uzu: does satisfactory's code look like satisfactory gameplay? 😄

[wind spade]

Uwu would be weirded if you call him Uzi

[wicked tinsel]

hereifixedit

[boreal cypress]

now the joke is gone

[oblique hollow]

i think this was intentional spaghetto

[earnest glen]

Imo satisfactory feels more finished than most games out there which are sold as finished

[tropic hawk]

True. Once the bugs are gone, it will be ready

[boreal cypress]

the bugs will never be gone

player will always find a way to find bugs xD

[earnest glen]

Some of them are feature at this point

[tropic hawk]

Alright. Remove most of the bugs.

[wicked tinsel]

to be fair, whenever something is spaghetti or not doesnt quite affect quality of result

but seeing how bugs happen in this game, i would wager its pretty spaghetti

[earnest glen]

I'm happy that fluid loss bug is gone, but i enjoyed reworking design around it

[earnest glen]

As a programmer, every sw soon or later is gonna be 🍝

[glad vigil]

Just call them features

[wicked tinsel]

as a programmer, this mostly depends on how features are pushed and how much leeway is left for fixing

[glad vigil]

Fluids disappearing? It’s pipe leaking mechanics

Truck going to space because you touched it? It’s new space technology, you are playing a game with main objective being throwing shit in space elevator

Cyber wagon existing? Yes

[tropic hawk]

Wait, what?

[earnest glen]

Yeah i'm talking about code being "neat" somehow. In my experience, very rarely you have the time to refactor working code to make it simpler/organized/pretty. Usually you just run after deadlines and hope everything gonna be alright 🙂

[earnest glen]

yep

they forgot to mention in patch-notes, but is being tested & confirmed. Look up in this channel 😉

[oblique hollow]

no probably more like "wait what? you LIKED working around that?"

[earnest glen]

I mean, the challenge in this game is pretty much absent imho. Don't take me wrong, but when you are able to make something work, scale up is easy. The difficult part for me is make thing looks nice (to me), but building machinery is the minor part of my playtime. So "solving"/"mitigating" that problem was fun 🙂

[median heath]

Not everyone builds with scalable or modular design.

[tropic hawk]

I do Throttleable designs late game. Max out an area, then flip some switches to get a certain ppm.

[proven prawn]

Too bad fluid is no longer lost in loads now so this is no longer a valid comparison

[frosty owl]

BRUH

[oblique hollow]

get Bruh'd

[proven prawn]

Im going to test with my acid loop with my waste processing, because I know it failed because of this very thing. So I'll know later if the loop on that can now work properly without having to supply extra acid to the system to get it stable.

[earnest glen]

What i mean is that if you can make a factory work with small numbers, going up is easy. I'm not saying everything is easy, in particular the very first time you build something due to game mechanics and bug knowledge, but it is now after 1.7k hours in

[zinc eagle]

can you mine biomass or there will be a bot what goes and cuts trees for you?

[burnt wraith]

I don't think biomass collection will be automated

[oblique hollow]

no, you go unlock coal power

biomass = manual work

[boreal cypress]

Have a friend automate it for you

[burnt wraith]

collection: manual
processing: automatic
distribution: manual

[wicked tinsel]

you can automate distribution by adding water

but its pathetic source of energy either way

[burnt wraith]

the important part is that you can't automate distribution into biomass burners

[regal oriole]

Im thinking of converti g 6k fule to turbo fule
Is that even worth it?!

I would need to have atleast 4k coal and sulfer
I dont even know if that is reach able on phase 2
Space elevator

Its only been 5 weeks of recource gathering building math troble shooting an hairpulling

[median heath]

If you're on Phase 2 SE you don't even have oil yet...

[proven prawn]

Basically https://youtu.be/b5aTUMXvKBU though it'll still have some value for the new ammo in u6

[regal oriole]

Idk

[median heath]

You've been doing math for 5 weeks and you don't know if you have oil or not....

[regal oriole]

I have oil

[median heath]

Then you're on Phase 3 at least.

[regal oriole]

I Just didnt look at the space elevator

For a long time

[frank mesa]

Turbofuel is not dead..... When you can spare the sulfur (and yes this very much depends on how you play)

[oblique hollow]

its a very situational play, yea

mostly if you think nuclear is too much work but you are perfectly fine with placing 200 fuel gens

[waxen moss]

It's not much, but she's mine. Copper and iron plants done. 60 modular frames a minute, 32.5 RIPs a minute, 898 cable a minute. Steel plant is next witha goal of 60 EIBs a minute. All connected by rail

[feral valve]

hmm, people not pronouncing nuclear properly...definitely a troll

[visual grail]

New clear?

[frank mesa]

"Nookierr Powhrr" according to some Texan former presidents 🤪

[feral valve]

well, it's just a bit cringe when i think people might switch from the proper pronunciation to the other one because they hear it so much they think it's the right one

[frank mesa]

Personally I stick to the 'proper' British pronunciation. I also absolutely refuse the American English "aluminum" as the in my opinion correct pronunciation is "aluminium"

[lyric coral]

ı lost my save files on epic 😦

[onyx sphinx]

If im making a hypertube cannon/launcher, will the distance i fly vary any, if it all if i: 1) Hold any of W, A, S or D during flight. 2) If im wearing blade runners

[burnt wraith]

1. yes, 2) yes if you move

[cedar mica]

More speed in equal more speed out

[onyx sphinx]

Will blade runners matter if im just wearing them and not holding a direction? Id assume no

[burnt wraith]

no, at least not that I've noticed

[onyx sphinx]

Alright cool thanks

Any approx ideas on how much just holding W will make me go further if im going from one corner to another?

Or is it just better to not hold anything

[burnt wraith]

you will absolutely make it going from one corner to the other if you use 17

[tawny flower]

Damn beautifup

[ashen mantle]

Why is copper powder so much of a pain in the ass

I have so much copper just going into copper powder

[burnt wraith]

because it's the final objective

pure copper and copper alloy can help if you aren't already using them

[ashen mantle]

I'm using pure copper

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts

[burnt wraith]

?

[floral trout]

Just to you know
About 280 fuel Gen do the same amount of energy as 20 nuclear lol (about 50k)

[topaz hedge]

We know.

Turbofuel is still dead tho.

[median heath]

Useful for boolets

[topaz hedge]

I'd rather just burn fuel. half the work to build, and if I'm on a world where I plan to use fuel gens as primary power source.. using all that oil for plastic or rubber is unlikely.

[median heath]

Yes.
But new bullet recipes use Turbo.

That is its primary function starting U6.

[topaz hedge]

...wut

so the jetpack is going to be able to use it too, right? ...right?

[vapid gorge]

@daring pollen so with a 30 second pause you would get 780 units in storage right?

[daring pollen]

I guess the way to see it. Is every ten minutes you lose 780. Since you're losing 1560 for 30 seconds.

[vapid gorge]

Not quite since you're losing the 1560 throughput for both unloading and loading - so 1560 every 10 min. But that's assuming it's a 10 minute trip or you're telling the train to wait until the cars are full

so it's a pretty hefty loss of product

[daring pollen]

Loading is not the issue. Buffer can refill from loading faster than the gap. Industrial should have freight storage filled before train returns. And then be refilling the storage buffer

I, do, have a wait time fairly high or until load is finished.

[vapid gorge]

ok does my diagram make sense that you would get 780 parts stored after a 30 second pause?

[daring pollen]

Yes. The unload part makes sense.

[vapid gorge]

ok and after the pause the parts stored stays at 780 because it's loading as fast as it's receiving right?

[daring pollen]

The loading bit keeps up because it should have the freight and buffer refilled before train returns.

The unloading is the gap. Since for 30 seconds the ISC is outputting but not being inputted.

Wheras on the loading part there is a time there it is refilling the ISC and not outputting to the filled freight station

[vapid gorge]

The unloading, if you're expecting to use full 1560pm from the station to machines eating it, will have 30 seconds where your machines are starved for parts

I'm not saying you cant do this, I'm just saying you have have a massive loss of produced parts available

[daring pollen]

Yes. So I'll think about it but it has to be applying the 780 lost in those thirty seconds , spread across the time elapsed for a fill trip in minutes

[vapid gorge]

and your machines will stutter because of the back log

[daring pollen]

If every drop off you lose 780. Let's say that happens once every ten minutes you lose 780

[vapid gorge]

So you might as well make less parts instead of having your system stutter right?

[daring pollen]

That means an average hit of 78/m right ?

[vapid gorge]

its going to be really fuzzy because machines have spin up times to make products.

[daring pollen]

In other words. If normal output was 1560,. Remove 78/m to account for the gap

[vapid gorge]

plus belt to belt throuput loss

Basically if you want to be safe and have a system that doesn't stutter and is efficient it's generally best to only have 1x mk5 belt per platform

[daring pollen]

Right im accounting for the 30 second lapse of 780 , once per drop off.

[vapid gorge]

Belt to belt throughput loss is different but it'll have a smaller impact

a 10 minute train trip though is really long

that's probably 1 side of the map to the next?

[daring pollen]

The math gets back close to the equation on the wiki. It says it accounts for the unloading.

If it's just doing what I did, namely the lapse / minute round trip = removed throughout

Yeah and there is a different equation for if the trip is shorter than time to unload.

[vapid gorge]

the shorter the trip the more you have to account for load/unload yeah

[daring pollen]

That's in the wiki equation that looks for round trip duration.

So, it's not the full 1560, but If you can ensure a full load / unload before next trip it's not a drastic fall off in throughput.

Let's suppose a five minute trip, including the load and unload.

780 loss per trip, once every five minutes. Or, 780/5 = 156.

1560-156= 1404 throughput for a five minute trip

[topaz hedge]

1300/min goes into 6 carts for 7800 total.

I think that's do able. but you're going to have a fun time using belts of 650. which is also in the safe area for what you can expect a mk5 belt to throughput.

[daring pollen]

I mean belts not moving their advertised amount is different and something I think is being worked on ?

If they move the advertised 1580 , a five minute round trip gets to 1400/cart. Or 8400 on a 6 car train (all my train stations are designed around six cars max )

1560*

[vapid gorge]

I suppose the other thing to consider is you were wanting to make flexible logistics right? Making tons of one product someplace and having multiple trains coming and going to pick things up?

[daring pollen]

Which is how I have it working currently. The only difference is this will end up being a lot of wire.

Comes back to train hub, and gets distributed as needed to the outgoing trains.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that's going to get messy really fast with trying to concentrate 2 belts per platform I think. Were you thinking of having multiple trains stopping at the same station for things?

[daring pollen]

No, always one to one. One outgoing train and one incoming train station with a single train doing both ends of it.

The destination site has a separate pickup station that goes to a separate dropoff station at hub, using a different train.

Currently, the wire is all made right next to the station. So it's being fed by belt into the hub.

It's merely going to be loaded into trains as needed to go outbound to different sites

[vapid gorge]

oh damn. central storage like that gets complicated real fast

[daring pollen]

Yes it has. Spreadsheet tracking how much is left of a given line of item assuming some percentage of that line is feeding a train. Remainder goes back to central storage. Makes math of distributing easier

[vapid gorge]

was it you in the other channel saying you wanted to use all the world's resources efficiently?

[daring pollen]

Yes. Working towards it. I've just about efficiently consumed everything in the sound end of the map.

[vapid gorge]

Right well unless you're planning on 'sinking excess items = used efficiently' doing a central sorting and resend hub is going to be a nightmare in logistics for that.

[daring pollen]

Mostly have that all figured out. Balancing and making sure what quantities are available.

I just need to find a diagram to balance a large quantity of lines

[vapid gorge]

There really isn't a diagram for that. You have to customise it to whatever factories need Y number of X part.

and you'll probably want a 2nd train line to split the train throughput

[daring pollen]

That part is fine.

Issue is coming from my wire facility I have 13 lines of various outputs , I need to make each output at equal amount to have a stable predictable output

[vapid gorge]

just clock the machines so they all make the same number

That's the easiest problem you have from the sounds of it

Out of the many hurdles you're doing? By far the easiest

[still trout]

ok yall how does the math work out for diluted packaged vs diluted fuel?

which one is more power-efficient?

since packaged requires packagers, of course but a blender uses tons of power

[glad vigil]

Packaged uses a bit more power than blender

[still trout]

cool, thanks

(as if i even had blenders unlocked)

[frosty owl]

I don't quite get that... How are your current outputs unpredictable in any way....?
Recipes have clear input/outputs

That goes for both producer and consumer, so I don't get how your consumers are "predictable" but the producers are not, requiring convoluted beltwork in between

[remote flame]

Apologies for a late ping..
Suppose you make 300m^3 of diluted fuel ready to go into generators;
Diluted packaged fuel requires 5 refineries, 10 packagers to produce it, 30MW a refinery, 10MW a packager. So 250MW

Diluted fuel requires 3 blenders to produce the same amount, needing 70MW each. So 210MW..

With a difference of 40MW, really, you need to be producing over 1000m^3 of diluted fuel a minute before you even lose a single fuel generator to power just that. In other words, bugger all in the big picture of things

[still trout]

thanks for the detailed explanation

[remote flame]

No worries, I thought about it for a while too wondering if I go for blenders.. but really it's insignificant

[wind spade]

also there is certain beauty in the 1:1:1 loop of diluted packaged fuel

[boreal cypress]

1 package into 1 fuel and 1 canister

[remote flame]

Will agree it looks nice, and very compact if you run the belt under the floor

[boreal cypress]

but mixer are prettier

[remote flame]

Guess it depends where you are in the playthrough. If you just got to the fuel generator stage, absolutely do packaged fuel. If you're well beyond, go blenders

[wind spade]

I mean 1 packager, 1 unpackager, 1 refinery

[boreal cypress]

oh

[wind spade]

it's perfectly in ratio

[still trout]

so basically if i build a diluted packaged setup now it isn't worth it to switch to blenders once im done

[wind spade]

also 3:4 for alt HOR -> diluted packaged fuel ratio

[remote flame]

Up to your preference, I produce 24,000MW and calculated I lost about 200ish MW to the refinery/packager setup. Which in my eyes, tiny

[still trout]

amazing

[boreal cypress]

and now go with turbo and you will have a even greater experience

[wind spade]

turbofuel 🤢

[remote flame]

Yeahhh I thought about turbo but I'm not running a belt to where I built lol

[boreal cypress]

I know... sulphur

[wind spade]

turbofuel is just too little gain compared to standard fuel, given that next step is nuclear and it just dwarfs most (turbo)fuel setups with just a few reactors

[still trout]

^

[remote flame]

I mean, from a single pure oil node, with all the alt recipes I'd assume you can easily get 20GW out of it, if you need more power, do that to get you out of trouble

[still trout]

fossil fuel bad

uranium funky

[remote flame]

Plutonium waste is where it's at, load it all up on a train and send it to the abyss

[still trout]

i like sinking plutonium rods more than needing a final storage place for plutonium waste

[boreal cypress]

for 108 TF you need 270MW and get 3600MW power (so 3330MW netto)
and for 108Fuel you need 112MW and get 1350MW (so 1238MW netto)

hmmm I think TF is still a lot more

[wind spade]

it is more, but why waste time with building TF setup when you can build nuclear 😛

[boreal cypress]

Because I want my 1000 Fuel gens :c

[wind spade]

or 60 nuclear plants for same power 😛

[remote flame]

Depends what he likes in pipes more. Fuel. Or water lol

[boreal cypress]

already have 80 NPP with uranium

after my 1000 Fuel gens I build my 200+ NPP with plutonium

[wind spade]

just build on water and you don't have to pipe water pretty much at all

[remote flame]

Truth, if only I could just slurry the nuclear waste right into the water system

[boreal cypress]

first NPP is on east of the swamp, second one will be east of dune desert

[remote flame]

Ficsit the right way, irradiated and unusable.

[zinc eagle]

how much items/min an mk 4 belt can move?

[remote flame]

480

[zinc eagle]

thanks

[remote flame]

Or the full tier list from 1-5: 60, 120, 240, 480, 780

[zinc eagle]

there is mk5 ooferz

[boreal cypress]

but you shouldnt really calculate with 780
it can be buggy sometimes

I go with 720 max

[remote flame]

Cost wise, tier 1 and tier 5 are dirty cheap

[zinc eagle]

i see

[wind spade]

just make it one segment and you're fine

[zinc eagle]

rn im trying to optimize the steel manufacturing, kinda done with the steel plate now comes the steel tube

[boreal cypress]

but 720 is a nice number :/

[noble agate]

Mk3 belt is 270, not 240

[boreal cypress]

you will never need alot of steel beams, focus more on steel pipes ^^

[remote flame]

Bruh I've been using them wrong this whole time lmao

[wind spade]

or build only what you need now

[noble agate]

I usually just use them as 240 anyway, 270 is an awkward number 😄

[remote flame]

I swear they were 240 a while back, I guess I've never bothered to look lol

[boreal cypress]

when is back than? :D

[remote flame]

But yeah I actually use 600 on my MK5 belts only because one pure node with a 250% MK2 miner is 600

[proven prawn]

well doing some testing shows pipes seem most stable but they are still running a bit on the lower side, but im thinking its basically of what they said that 600m3 is simply to fast and they'll have to lower that amount, would explain why the pipes seems to no matter what always go empty, but its still running unlike before where the machines were actually running out of liquid, so one part of the issue definitely looks like its fixed, but the other issue where the pipes are running out of liquid anyways because of the precision issue remains🤔

[remote flame]

Oh boy the last time I bothered to use MK3 belts in mass was when pipes came out.. update 3?

[boreal cypress]

thats the only change that was ever made to the speed

[wind spade]

they were always 270. Mk4 were 450 back in time

[remote flame]

Well there you go, I've been underusing them since my very first playthrough all because I can't be stuffed reading the belt lmao

[boreal cypress]

And I underused Mk5 since the beginning because I always thought they are 720 xD but I wont stop using them with only 720

[remote flame]

I find only weird things start happening when using a full 780 on a MK5 on a poor connection multiplayer, otherwise it's been fine in my playthrough single player

[noble agate]

I don't think I've ever used mk5 as 780, or overclocked mk3 miner on pure node higher than 50%. 50% mk3 miner on pure is 720, that's my max for mk5 belt 🙂

[still trout]

i always go to 780

i honestly dont care much if my factories dont work in practice at 100%

i want their theory to be perfect

[viscid fable]

Hello everyone,
I am setting up rubber/plastic production & was able to replicate ImKibitz's rubber production setup from his video - "300m^3 Crude oil to 900 rubber/min"
he says in-order to produce plastic just reverse the recipe for plastic/rubber. But The Residual Plastic recipe (Converting Polymer Resin to Plastic) takes 60 Polymer Resin per minute, not 40 per minute like Rubber does. So the setup is not quite interchangeable like the video says.
am i missing something or is there an another way to produce 900 plastic from 300m^3 crude oil. If this question has already been answer recently please point me to it, Thanks 🙂

[oblique hollow]

the key is to make rubber from the resin and recycle more rubber into plastic

since the residual rubber recipe is more efficient

[viscid fable]

Okay now that's some crazy math shit , thanks a ton ❤️

[boreal cypress]

I hope you mean 150%. 50% MK3 pure miner is only 240

[noble agate]

Yeah, mean 150% 🙂 I’m always by mistake calling it 50% overclocked because that sounds more natural to me…

You’re producing 50% more -> overclocking by 50%…

[wind spade]

you can still produce residual rubber and just feed it into the recycled loop

it's not really "just reverse it", but it works

[boreal cypress]

@proven prawn

[proven prawn]

the api lies, you cant rely on those numbers

the number 2.5^(1/1.321928)x300 is for purposes of calculations is correct

[boreal cypress]

you cant use that for Power Gens

[proven prawn]

2.5^(1/1.321928) is the formula nuclear uses for calculations, check the wiki

[wind spade]

you... can? 😄

[boreal cypress]

250% for Power Plants is like 200% for normal Machines

[wind spade]

not exactly

[proven prawn]

i think your confused

[wind spade]

2.5^(1/1.321928) = 2.00000009951

so yeah, pretty close to 200%

[wind spade]

so what's the problem in using 2.5^(1/1.321928)?

[zinc eagle]

does trainworth better than multiple belts on long distances?

[boreal cypress]

I dont know

[wind spade]

depends how you define worth...
resources used? yes
power used? no
complexity? maybe
capacity? situational
space? sometimes

[proven prawn]

nothing they are just confused about how the game does its calculations which follows that rule

[wind spade]

then why did you object with "you can't use that for power gens"? 🤔

[boreal cypress]

because the NPP use another number than other buildings

[wind spade]

but... we're talking about NPP, aren't we?

[boreal cypress]

And I didnt know, that it is that number

[proven prawn]

personally i wish they changed the water calculations so it didnt use above 600m3, but who knows if/when they'll get around to that one

[oblique hollow]

but.... they dont use above 600

[wind spade]

we're getting linear clocking anyway 🤢

[proven prawn]

not for power plants, they arent changing those according to snutt, meaning nuclear is still going to have a issue with water consumption at 250% clock speeds

[boreal cypress]

they use 600,000029853m³ when you OC them to 250%

it hiccups every few hours for one time

[oblique hollow]

doesnt game inaccuracy round that down to 600 anyway?

[proven prawn]

sure they dont

[wind spade]

so they are changing machines which were just "more power" and understanded by most players, but they are not changing power plants that are confusing because clock % != speed % 🤔

[proven prawn]

they want to leave power plants confusing i guess

[zinc eagle]

oh so basically its not a better option, just different

[proven prawn]

though i dont understand whats really confusing when all of the information about consumption, etc is on the wiki🤔

[wind spade]

as with all other choices in the game

[wind spade]

it's not documented ingame, not all people use wiki

also buggy UI doesn't help

[proven prawn]

true and it doesnt help the api ingame shows incorrect numbers also

[zinc eagle]

i never understood why max comp is so high when the actual comp is pretty low

[median heath]

Do you have Trains/Trucks?

[zinc eagle]

do you say i should not belive those graphs ingame?

no i dont

[median heath]

Then it means some of your buildings are idling.

[zinc eagle]

oh i see

lot of em is

[median heath]

🤢

Intentionally having yellow lights on production buildings falls under "wrong way to play the game" imo.

[zinc eagle]

some only produces when i take smth from my storage

[boreal cypress]

No it doesnt xD

[median heath]

TOMATO POTATO HISKI

[boreal cypress]

FEAR

[median heath]

Not fear.

Nausea.

[proven prawn]

so the verdict is in, mk2 pipes are too unreliable at 600m3, my sulfuric acid is somehow still running out despite the 5m3 load bug being fixed, thats a shame so mk2 pipes at full capacity still cant be relied on

[empty glade]

I've never had a problem. Good to hear 5m3 load bug is fixed; when did that happen?

[boreal cypress]

with the last patch

[proven prawn]

5m3 load bug was fixed in the last patch, still 600m3 are unreliable and run out sulfuric after some period of time, going my previous fix of oversaturation to stabilize it, i thought that fix might resolve it, but it does not

pretty certain its because of 600m3 having precision as has already been mentioned, they simply cant deliver the capacity they say

[zinc eagle]

o.o

[boreal cypress]

its just recycle factory, I dont need 6900 plastic and 3450 rubber per minute atm

and I dont sink :D

[zinc eagle]

but awesome shop stuff is good

[boreal cypress]

already have everything
even gold cup

[empty glade]

"Never had a problem" means it's always delivered 600 for me and every build where I've been involved. It's always been reliable for that. There have been times when I've built a setup and had to turn on the liquid production first to saturate machine inputs to compensate for manifold distribution and avoid backflow issues, but that's completely different, and a valid mechanic.

[proven prawn]

no idea, its the only explanation i can find for my setup, 600m3 into the 600 system and its running out, and there isn't any variables left to account for, so my only conclusion is the one i arrived at🤔

well it was a previous issue i was already having with the setup in the past, it was suggested it was because of the 5m3 load bug but now im certain it cant be because of that as its now fixed

[median heath]

They are unreliable in situations that produce sloshing. Else they are fine.

[oblique hollow]

did you loop everything?

because from what i can tell, mk 2 pipes do not have an issue as long as you prevent the source pipe from being hit with backflow

[boreal cypress]

is a buffer at the end good enough or is a loop better?

[zinc eagle]

lmao playing a game wrong

[boreal cypress]

with your feet instead of hands?

[zinc eagle]

xD

lol sorry i was reacted to

[oblique hollow]

loop is better

[zinc eagle]

this

[median heath]

Indeed.

[oblique hollow]

buffer at the end relies on fluid even getting to the buffer.

but it wont

so loop it instead

[zinc eagle]

i could make my bowl of spagetty even larger by leading everything into an awesome shop

but i dont bother

[boreal cypress]

you mean shredder

[proven prawn]

No looping is done as I did consider that as well

[oblique hollow]

so you.... Did not loop it?

or "no, Looping is done"

[proven prawn]

its basically source to sink setup, meaning fluid only flows in one direction, i have valves on sections anyways to prevent backflow, i actually did it originally to limit flow as thats what there main purpose is but it seemed to make the issues overall worse somehow

[oblique hollow]

sounds like you messed up your loop

but in any case: no mk 2 doesn have issues where it shows "600" but only moves 580 or something

if the pipe shows 600 its 600

if you cant make it 600, ~~its a skill issue ~~

[proven prawn]

how many times must i say its not a loop, i have no idea what definition your using

fluid only flows in one direction, a loop would suggest it can flow in multi directions or it connects around back onto itself, none of which happens

[oblique hollow]

no amount of valve and buffers and other shenannigans comes close to fixing 600 flow issues as loops do.

[proven prawn]

it goes from the refineries that make the fluid to the blenders in a straight one direction, thats it

[oblique hollow]

bad setup.

[proven prawn]

why i said in previous that 600m3 arent reliable in my setups and im going back to my previous saturation setup as its the only one that works

[proven prawn]

lol your crazy but ok

[oblique hollow]

ive used 600 reliably every time

and even made other setups, like yours, that had issues, work

SIMPLY by connecting the ends

[proven prawn]

dont know what to tell you, if fluid cannot flow reliably in one direction, there is something very wrong then, as I have come to conclude.

well its a old issue, back to oversaturation at any rate

[oblique hollow]

i dont know what to tell you, but if your conclusion is "you cannot use 600 reliably" and mine is "you can use 600 reliably"
that does NOT mean that your interpretation is true and holds true everywhere

[proven prawn]

yes it is does, because i have tested it does not

[oblique hollow]

and i say thats nonsense

[proven prawn]

your simply wrong, sorry

[oblique hollow]

no that is not how testing works

[proven prawn]

yes it is and your wrong

[oblique hollow]

you dont get to hold monopoly over the result

[proven prawn]

neither do you, but your acting like you do

see it goes both ways

[oblique hollow]

looks like we need a 3rd voice

[remote flame]

Loop the pipe. You'll feel better, have a cookie

[oblique hollow]

in fact, we would need at least 20 people to test it to come close to a conclusion

[proven prawn]

wont work, i have proven single direction with mk2 likes cannot deliver 600m3, looping wont change that result

[remote flame]

buffers and things like that help the 600 pipeline stabilise, but it doesnt fix it. I run 3 600m^3 reliably into my caterium computer factory without fault

[oblique hollow]

alright, got a test setup?
lets exchange then.

you give me a save where 600 doesnt work, i give you one where it does work

[remote flame]

I did have problems, until I decided to loop the pipeline system and ensure any area that I expect low flowrate to occur past my refineries, connected all the pipes together

[proven prawn]

doesnt matter, i need setups that work, so i shall continue to use what works, so doesnt matter in any case to me

[earnest glen]

i truly don't understand the point 🤨 I'f there's a way, pretty simple, to make things work as intended, why not using it? It doesn't even require space. I mean, i like to have a buffer and the end of the line, but is not even needed

[proven prawn]

i do, but it was suggested that mk2 pipes werent at fault and my testing proves they are, but yes i was oversaturating was a simple fix, which i shall do until another solution better, preferably better but im out of ideas.

[remote flame]

Same, I just find the buffer at the end helps a bit with the last refineries occasionally flicking off or on, doesn't happen anymore

[proven prawn]

Also I can tell its a issue with the pipes because the flow rate does not remain constant at 600, this is likely do the underlying issues with them, which i suspect is indeed part of the real issues

[oblique hollow]

if it flickers its backflow

[earnest glen]

i used them because of fluid loss bug, but as stated yestarday discussing about it i'll keep using them. I like to see full pipes below buffer level, and they allow me to check if everything is ok as they are in a closed loop. Also helps with flow going up and down due to machine different syncing imo

[oblique hollow]

i have a 3 km pipe at 600 that doesnt flicker once

thats ONE pipe

[proven prawn]

no because valves prevent it, this is a issue with its inability to deliver flow properly

i already said i used valves to prevent backflow

[oblique hollow]

valves do not prevent backflow if you have full pipes

not directly at least

ever noticed how head lift goes both ways through a valve?

[proven prawn]

valves allow fluids to move in one direction only, so but one more thing your wrong about?

oh thats right your suggesting they allow fluids to move in both directions...which goes against all that is known about them

[oblique hollow]

again, ive said "not directly"

yes, they prevent backflow

[proven prawn]

right so your wrong, got it

[oblique hollow]

fluid cant go back through a valve

[proven prawn]

and your saying at the same time somehow i have backflow🙄

[oblique hollow]

but what does happen is that fluid that TRIES to go through a valve in the correct direction, but cant, will BACKFLOW

because where else would it go?

[earnest glen]

this is what i understand:

about valves

[proven prawn]

one top arrow and two bottom arrows, what does this really mean?

[earnest glen]

they prevent the fluid to go past them in the opposite direction, but still backflow can happen on both sides

[vapid estuary]

what the valve does it make it possible for fluid to enter a pipe segment that is 10m above it. It has nothing to do with direction. I doubt there is even a concept of direction in pipes, considering all the fiddly bits with conveyors that relate to direction, that are absent from pipes

[proven prawn]

what about if you have a pump on one side, adding pressure on one end, would that pevent it from backflowing in any situation?

[oblique hollow]

red section: no backflow. YIPPIE 🥳
blue section: backflow if red section is full. what now?

you didnt eliminate backflow

you moved it

to a different place

[proven prawn]

doesnt matter different setup and situation, my statements hold true for my setup, so that matters not and proves nothing really, sorry

[oblique hollow]

it does matter

backflow kills flow rate

we all know that

[proven prawn]

why i was asking my specific questions, but whatever

[oblique hollow]

then i didnt get the question, sorry

[proven prawn]

nobody has answered me if pumps on one end prevent backflow

[vapid estuary]

they do not

[oblique hollow]

pumps do prevent backflow, but same rule applies as with valves

[vapid estuary]

if the thing before the pump is full, it will not flow backwards.
if you want to prevent backflow, send the fluid downhill >10m

or keep your supply greater than demand

[proven prawn]

also doesnt matter because as i said the 600m3 is equal to what is consumed, and because my entire system runs out, my issues have nothing to do with backflow or fluid going in opposite direction, as it allows move in one direction

so whats being discussed doesnt apply to my setup in any case

because the fluid always moves forward

and the fact it it doesnt is because 600m3 doesnt deliver reliably as i have concluded

[earnest glen]

it applies in the form that what is preventing you from achieving 600m3 is backflow, if i understood the whole discussion

[proven prawn]

no because the discuss is the fluid has no where to go, and that simply isnt the case

[warped ruin]

here we have game developers sitting on the channel, and we are wondering how the pipes work?

[earnest glen]

where all the fun if you can't reverse eng. it 😛

[proven prawn]

this is my waste processing system it runs at fully capacity all the time, all fuid is designed it always be used

meaning the 600m3 is a constant and should be that way

[oblique hollow]

fine, here is an easy test

1. network with junctions, no side pipes
   flow = 600

second pic is following

second test: same network but with side pipes (simulates a machine manifold

guess what the flow is?

Its absolute SHIT

3rd test: now with a bypass loop

perfect flow

[proven prawn]

anyways that about all that can be said, 600m3 isnt remaining constant for the input, despite the fact the fluid indeed has places to go, nothing more to be said really because for me its pretty obvious what the issues are

[burnt wraith]

aha, so that's what the bypass loop solves

[oblique hollow]

yes

machines dont continuously consume fluid. and the backflow messes with the 600 m³/min

[burnt wraith]

does the bypass loop have to be level with the manifold "spine" or can it go over/under?

[oblique hollow]

it can go over and under

[median heath]

Now with.. VERTICAL BYPASS LOOP

[glad vigil]

I have no idea how fluids work in this game

[proven prawn]

also valves dont operate properly either, case in point i have a section of pipe 600m3 flow on one side, connected to two ends, one is limited to 480m3 the other 120, both are limited by valves, both ends also have empty pipe so fluid can move freely, so logically it should be 480m3 for one end and 120m3 for the other end right? nope its 481.9m3 for one end and 118.1m3 for the other side, yep thats right not even valves actually operate as they say, great isnt it

[oblique hollow]

display error

valve works precise, but it displays flow inaccurately

[proven prawn]

its a feature

[earnest glen]

the only things i trust a bit are the 99-100%, green lights and mostly stable power consumption

[wind spade]

Very similarly to irl

[proven prawn]

only with more~~ bugs~~ features

[remote ice]

i've done it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8mMBFtCWdU

the power slugs are mine

and all it cost was my frames

[boreal cypress]

post in #streams-and-videos ?

[remote ice]

done

[proven prawn]

no doggo's were enslaved in the making of this content

[ashen mantle]

Why does the fracker say 2100m^3/min potential

But each node only outputs 120m^3/min for a total of 840m^3/min

[topaz hedge]

It totals 2100. Nodes have different purity.. some will do 120, others 300, and 600

[boreal cypress]

^

[ashen mantle]

Got it, that makes a bit more sense

Thanks!

[oblique hollow]

unlikely, you probably missed a node that does 240 or something

ah oop, internet delay

sorry xd

[ashen mantle]

Yeah I missed a few nodes

[boreal cypress]

love the sound of fracking

[ashen mantle]

Looks like they all do 300 now and I just had to wait for overclocking to catch up

[burnt wraith]

#satisfactory-memes message

[boreal cypress]

but its only one part, fracking have two different sound. One with fast and one slower

random which plays

[wise shard]

anyone know how many Nuclear plants would need for 1 Uranium Fuel Rod P/m?

[thorn bane]

5

[wise shard]

ah, 5, thx

[ashen mantle]

What's the advantage of the Cooling device alt recipe? It uses more everything but without water and less nitrogen

It doesn't seem like Nitrogen's a particularly scarce resource

[thorn bane]

nitrogen can become scarce if you build alot of thermal propulsion rockets
thats what that alt is for since it saves on nitrogen

[ashen mantle]

Ah, got it

[proven prawn]

yeah some of these alts make sense when you think of them in terms of other production lines

[ashen mantle]

I don't plan to try mass producing thermal propulsion rockets so I think I'll just stick with the cooling system recipe just so I don't have to deal with motors

For now at least, I'll just bring in the rubber I have next door

[tropic hawk]

I think 4800 nitro/min is the max of the map supply.

[ashen mantle]

That doesn't seem right? I've got 2100/min from this one node

[proven prawn]

the world has 12000 nitrogen/min

[tropic hawk]

My bad, I must be thinking of something else...

[oblique hollow]

slightly uneccesary pipe trivia from my tests today:
(the current information is for flat pipes. Angled ones are a different beast)

1. The flowrate through a pipe depends on volume (and in turn the resulting head lift).
   If a Mk 1 Pipe with volume 16m³ wants to transport 120 m³/min, it needs a minimum of 6.4 m³ inside it (120/300 * 16m³).

2. The current head lift inside a pipe also depends on volume. A full pipe has headlift 1.5 m, a half full one 0.75 m. This head lift seems to be the thing responsible for the flow situation above too.

[thorn bane]

so pipes are just small fluid buffers

[oblique hollow]

this also means that, any pipe that wants to transport at max rate will always be a full one

buffers are just large pipes

[tropic hawk]

Does anyone know if pipe welding is a thing? I know belt welding is...

[oblique hollow]

nope, doesnt work

they dont like that

[thorn bane]

you sure?

[oblique hollow]

yes

tried it. they dont weld

or if anything, they weld only up to their max length

so you cant weld 2 max length pipes to 1 super long pipe

[proven prawn]

it is, it has severe limitations, for example it only works for runs with no junctions, as this splits it up and there is noway around this, but beyond you can do single straight pipes welded together and long as you want

[proven prawn]

example of buffer and welded pipes, hmmm it has almost 200 capacity

its quite fun making super long pipes, if a bit of a glitchy experience because the engine doesn't like it but you can kind of force it to do it anyways

[ashen mantle]

How is that despite limiting input to 200, somehow this loop still clogs?

It seems like the limiting isn't working how it should or something else is wrong

216 clogs it instantly, anything above 200 seems to clog it, and anything lower than that chokes it out

[topaz hedge]

Hmm?

It's probably the way you have it built. x:

[vapid gorge]

@oblique hollow SO , @sinful rover apparently got pipe welding to work a couples times. But the consensus was that it was so finicky and needed such specific conditions to work that it might as well not exist

[sinful rover]

can confirm

[vapid gorge]

So returning waste fluids into a system is initially tricky to figure out but once you get it simple. Like most pipe work.
The most straightforward solution is to look at the pipe manual pinned in this channel and use a VIP junction.
Otherwise you need to be careful with a valve

[proven prawn]

Can confirm also and I invented pipe welding. Still I make pipes with 600m3+ capacity for memes still

[sinful rover]

lol... consen sus

[proven prawn]

And then css patches it out because we can't have fun things

[brisk nebula]

what will happen with the nuclear rod alternate recipe. will it be removed?

[uncut sigil]

Probably, but that's not been finalised yet.

[thorn bane]

https://youtu.be/QYMHs1aTyOs?t=100
snutt: "(...)the only exception is one of the alt recipes for uranium fuel rods that uses beacons in like the production line we won't touch that yet but we will change that recipe in some time in the unspecified future but for update six that, alt recipe won't change "

[brisk nebula]

thx.

[frosty owl]

The beacon will be removed from the recipe. The recipe itself won't disappear

[thorn bane]

*in update 7

[frosty owl]

Btw, what's up with #patch-notes still not mentioning the fluid load fix?
||Sus||

[thorn bane]

fluid loss fix?

[frosty owl]

I would be surprised if you still had to hear about it -.^

[thorn bane]

i havent been around for a while 🙃

[frosty owl]

Well, brace yourself...
They fixed the fluid load loss bug

With the last patch, without mentioning it

[thorn bane]

yay

[boreal cypress]

Uzu just forgot it to mention it in the patch log, thats all ^^

and maybe Uzu to lazy to edit the post

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I was assuming it would've been fixed the day it was pointed out or the one after... now we're in the weekend already 😅

[boreal cypress]

I bet it will be in the next changelog as "forgot to mention"

[median heath]

U6 drops and they forget to announce the entire update in patch notes.

[river pagoda]

Rip

[ashen mantle]

Is dedicating 940 of my 1660 aluminum production purely to heatsinks a bad choice? From looking at resources it seems like a reasonable choice for space elevator parts

[river pagoda]

Probably not. I use excess production to make other things. Like I produce close to 320 pipes/min but use half of that output to make encased materials since why would I ever need that many pipes/min

[ashen mantle]

Well some of these are going to cooling systems, others are going to radios, Idk how I plan to balance those yet

[river pagoda]

Yeah youll just have to play around with the setups a bit.

Also one thing im trying to currently understand is how come for coal and iron nodes which are both normal. How come the iron is oversaturated but the coal lines arent

[ashen mantle]

What do you mean?

[river pagoda]

So for a foundry to make steel it takes 3 iron and 3 coal right? Well how come my iron line is saturated completely and the foundrys each have 100 iron but I have to wait on coal

[ashen mantle]

What ore/min are you getting from each node?

300 from both?

[river pagoda]

So for both iron and coal I have Mk2 miners with mk2 belts.

[ashen mantle]

Okay so 120/min

[cedar mica]

Mk2 miner can be 60/120/240... So need more then that

[ashen mantle]

Send a screenshot of your current setup? it sounds like something might be wrong with your conveyors

[river pagoda]

It was earlier. I could tell the mk2s were only doing 60/min but I fixed that ages ago.

[ashen mantle]

did you forget a mk1 conveyor somewhere in there?

Check to make sure there's not any bottlenecks

[river pagoda]

No. I had fixed that issue earlier. All belts are saturated upon entering the factory

[cedar mica]

Then you forgot an mk1, somewhere

[ashen mantle]

Go through and look for a backup at all your conveyors

[cedar mica]

Also, check splitters, they might sometimes hide a small belt inside them

[river pagoda]

Well as you can see from the above screenshot the mk2 belts are both saturated with coal or iron no spaces between them

[ashen mantle]

Then the issue is further up the line

[river pagoda]

Also assuming im missing something here as well

I feel as if I could power more generators

[tropic hawk]

Those are 2 lines of 60, right?

[river pagoda]

120

[cedar mica]

120 is 8 coal gens, as they want 15 per

[river pagoda]

I see. Ig I shall wait to add more

Got plenty of space to fill

[dry escarp]

Will this be 100% efficient?

[median heath]

Eventually yes.
What are you moving?

[dry escarp]

just reinforced plates

For no i have only balanced my loads. I haven't yet tried to overflow anything

[median heath]

Will take time to spool up but it will balance itself.

[dry escarp]

👍 k thanks

[median heath]

If you prefeed the system it will be better though given the low amount you're moving.

[dry escarp]

Yes i already planned on doing that

[ashen mantle]

Uh oh

[sacred flicker]

how has your power grid not failed yet?

[ashen mantle]

Batteries

[river pagoda]

in other words

[frosty owl]

Sounds like a typical b2b issue. Coal belt has more belt segments, thus slightly less throughout than the iron belt - > foundries slowly run out of both until coal finishes sooner then they pile up iron.

[river pagoda]

yeah i solved it. removed all iron and now its 1:1 iron coal on each belt

[frosty owl]

I don't understand what you did

[river pagoda]

Just stopped the miners from putting any iron on the belt than restarted the factory and now they are even instead of saturated

[frosty owl]

That's a temporary "fix"

[river pagoda]

nah had 1 mk1 belt on the coal line so the iron overfilled due to lack of coal in the foundries

[frosty owl]

Well, that's a different fix than just stopping the miners ^^
Still, b2b issues are a thing when belts are full, I suggest looking into it if you're not aware yet~

[river pagoda]

well both those statements fixed it as the mk1 belt was the first issue than the iron saturating due to that was the next and both solved its been 14 hours and its fine so far. unless ofc storages fill but if it saturates it doesnt really bother me that much anyways unless its uneven lol

[crisp perch]

120X120X cole x power of 9 =

[ashen mantle]

Think this can be a good balance coming out of my heatsink factory, producing 10 radio control units/min to go towards pressure conversion cubes, then 17.5 to go with the 35 cooling systems/min to produce 8.75 turbo motors/min

[floral trout]

This is why I have 400% of capacity/consum (I Produce 4x more energy that I need xD, or 3x I think)

I use 30k
I have 110k

30/40k

[ashen mantle]

I just went and brought online 10 more nuclear power plants, I had left only 10 operating, the plant and fuel have capacity for 30

I just needed to hook up water for them all

Now I have 20 online

@floral trout

[floral trout]

Nice man

But you didnt put all of the nuclear here right?

[ashen mantle]

No I didn't don't worry lol

That's just where my petrol refinery has been sitting waiting to get torn down

This is where it's at, the actual fuel production is down a bit further

[floral trout]

Thanks god, it was a hell to do my powerplant hahaha (40 hours lol)

[floral trout]

Nice factory
My factory is a mess

Like a big mess

[ashen mantle]

This massive plant is, though, it was half built when the U6 spire coast announcement was made, and I've left it half functional

[floral trout]

Im trying tô solve all my problems

[floral trout]

Man want to cry with me? Hahah

[ashen mantle]

Maybe

[floral trout]

This is the coast

[ashen mantle]

I've never been able to stand making my factories open floors

[floral trout]

416 generators
300 refinaries

[ashen mantle]

I always put them into buildings

[ashen mantle]

Ouchhhhh

[floral trout]

This one Will be the roof (still working at it)

[ashen mantle]

Most of my major factories are built in a 'city' of sorts

With a massive network of conveyors under the floor

[floral trout]

Yeah , and my petroleum coke (that I use tô make my 6700 stell )
About 20 refineries tô each phase of the process (not a lot, about 20 minutes)

[floral trout]

This is soo cool

Let me get a better photo of mine

[ashen mantle]

Most of my world is in this photo, but there's a bunch of scatter factories doing on-site processing

[floral trout]

Here!

Its all one building

[ashen mantle]

That must be laggy

[floral trout]

Inside everything is separated

[floral trout]

Well , not a lot like

I have a good pc and 16GB ram

Then not so laggy

[ashen mantle]

Fair, I'm just imagining a megafactory like that must cause issues

[floral trout]

But a little, some times it crash

[floral trout]

Some times

[ashen mantle]

For me, I have things like ingot processing and similar done at outpost factories, and all the major space elevator parts and end game parts are built in the city

[floral trout]

But it took about 50% of the time i spent on the save

[floral trout]

150k lol

[ashen mantle]

This is the transport hub of sorts that takes all the items from those outposts and sends them to the city

[floral trout]

Why só much

[ashen mantle]

32 mk5 conveyors worth of bandwidth

[floral trout]

Like in this megafactory , i do everything in the game except the second last elevator item

[ashen mantle]

In theory only about 24 mk5 belts worth can be realized, mostly just because train stations are stupid and lock when you're loading or unloading

[floral trout]

Even turbomotor

[floral trout]

Oh lol

[ashen mantle]

Currently I'm building up my turbomotor and nuclear pasta factories, I have assembly director systems and magnetic field generators fully automated

[floral trout]

Man , for me 3,875 turbomotor is enough BUT if you want more

(Its like 2 machines making it)

This megafactory is like 40 mini factories that help each other

Isnt that lag!
And it is easy to work at, but inside is a puzzle xD

[ashen mantle]

Yeah I'm going to have 5 thermal propulsion rockets/min and 5 nuclear pasta/min once the factory is done

[floral trout]

10 Acceerators? LOL

I have 2 and this is enough for me

[ashen mantle]

Look in #screenshots for the building that houses it

[floral trout]

Well
You will need tô pray for copper hahaha

[ashen mantle]

Also, currently have 6 assembly director systems/min and 8 magnetic field generators/min

[ashen mantle]

I have a few thousand copper/min coming in from the dunes, I have no issues with copper :)

[floral trout]

I have 4 director and 0 magnetic
I have a half made factory but im to lazy tô work with it haha

[ashen mantle]

This is the nuclear pasta factory, I have them overclocked to only need 6 instead of 10

[floral trout]

Who much hours do you have on this save?

[ashen mantle]

~500

[floral trout]

Lol

[burnt wraith]

wow

[floral trout]

320 in my save

[ashen mantle]

I play with structural solutions just for cool buildings but other than that it's pure vanilla

Oh, and fluid sinks

[floral trout]

😮

[ashen mantle]

A lot of this was made possible by me absolutely wreaking havoc early game

It all looked hideous and ugly but I was producing so many resources a minute for building that I could start from the top down with factories and trains

Then mass dismantled and sunk the majority of it, some of its skeleton still remains though

I had no regard for looking nice, it was just resources

But as I've slowly gotten closer to the carcass with my city I've been deleting more and more of it

Though right now I've just ran it over

[floral trout]

Me too HAHAHAH
Me first game is like

Pipes floating

Train on top of trains(dont ask about it)

[ashen mantle]

This was my second game, and I knew what I was doing now

[floral trout]

300*3 fundations

[ashen mantle]

My first game was no buildings, just things laid on the grass, piped and lined nicely, just taking it slow and having no fucking idea how to properly utilize parallelization

I had made basically a massive bus to draw resources from with a ton of splitters

Which meant that I was limited to a single conveyor belt's worth of whatever items I needed

It didn't work very well

[floral trout]

Like one HAHAHAH

[ashen mantle]

I did eventually upgrade to multiple lines for things I needed more of

But it was still a horribly optimized design

I can't wait for my nuclear pasta factory to be done, it's going to be so cool to watch

[topaz hedge]

You need 20 thermal rockets/min

[ashen mantle]

Huh?

[burnt wraith]

or else

[tropic hawk]

<primes nuke>

[fierce cypress]

c o m p l y

[ashen mantle]

I don't think I have the aluminium or nitrogen for that

[topaz hedge]

you should have the nitrogen.

[ashen mantle]

I do still have 720 aluminum ingots/min that have yet to be fed into making tanks and casings

[topaz hedge]

aluminum might be tricky. you'll have to use the alts that prioritize aluminum saving over everything else.

[ashen mantle]

Okay yeah I did the math I have the nitrogen for 20/min but I'm using too much aluminum for other things and I'm not using the right alternate recipes for my existing production

But I think if I use aluminum prioritizing recipes I won't have enough nitrogen anymore, so I'd need to balance them

[topaz hedge]

do you have max nuclear or something?

[ashen mantle]

Close to it in terms of production of fuel rods, but a lot of it is just getting sunk right now

And I have all the materials to have full capacity reprocessing once I get all the uranium online

I just haven't had a need to build it yet

So I'm just getting a lot of points and radiation

Also a lot of fused modular frames

Which I use the heat fused frame recipe for

[topaz hedge]

Ah alright. I was wondering, because I've done almost everything I can to save aluminum, and I'm almost out, I think I'm cutting it close on nitrogen too.

[ashen mantle]

Nitrogen and aluminum seem to be the most limiting late-game resources

Especially once you've gone and utilized all the nodes in the dunes

There's so much of everything over there if you can bother to go get it

[topaz hedge]

alumin for sure. it was the limiter for U3 and turbomotors.

[ashen mantle]

I think this somewhat glitchy place will make a good spot for a waste dump

[fierce cypress]

Maybe wait until after the swamp gets updated

[topaz hedge]

I already have a huge factory there. it's nice, lots of spooder viewing areas

[tropic hawk]

Nah, waste dumps are meant to be left alone. Just put it there and let devs bury it for you!

[topaz hedge]

the rework of the swamp looks really nice.

[fierce cypress]

nightmare fuel

although that water was

[topaz hedge]

Home sweet home.

[topaz hedge]

Ain't it just adorable?

[burnt wraith]

just want to slurp it right up

[topaz hedge]

I hope it likes doggos.

[novel arrow]

that's what she said

[scarlet stag]

🌵 this seems pretty cheap as far as thermal propulsion rockets go

[wind spade]

@proven prawn I've found this somewhere in my old messages

not 100% sure if that's the final version or if it has been modified since, but it should work

[proven prawn]

neither do i👀

[wind spade]

afaik the premise was something along the lines of:

• if no red items are coming, the last splitter on the right has 120 ipm coming so it splits 60/60 (priority split but mk1s)
• if red items are coming, they reduce the flow in the green part to 60/min red + 60/min blue, so after red gets filtered, result is only 60/min, which gets priority split, hence no output to the overflow side

so, if red items are coming in (1 IN), then nothing goes out (0 OUT), and vice versa, hence making a NOT gate

🤷‍♂️

[proven prawn]

i guess the part i was really missing on this was how the logic was set on the ss, but that does give me a better idea of whats going on🤔

[wind spade]

Simplified version

[burnt wraith]

what is the green smart splitter set to?

[wind spade]

colors of stuff means what kind of items they are handling, blue and red are different items, green is mixed part

green splitter just filters items

OF = overflow (low priority)

0 -> 1 state (numbers = ipm on belt)

1 -> 0 state

(ofc this assumes no buggy belt and splitters, so it only works in theory, but it is definitely possible 🤷‍♂️ )

[burnt wraith]

I've set it up like this, but sending 0 input gives 0 output

[wind spade]

seems the top left belt is mk1?

[burnt wraith]

the top is 120

the one between the first SS and the M is mk1

[wind spade]

should be mk2 tho

[burnt wraith]

how would the first SS overflow 60?

[wind spade]

because the green merger merges 60 red (if present)

[burnt wraith]

okay now 0 input has 1 output

but 1 input also has 1 output

[wind spade]

🤔

can you show screenshot?

[burnt wraith]

0 input again, highlighted the mk2 belts

[wind spade]

that looks fine, how does it look with 1 input (60 ipm)?

[sand epoch]

Isnt top one to be a 5?

[wind spade]

can be mk2 as well, doesn't matter

[sand epoch]

Ah

[wind spade]

red items need to be different from blue items

[burnt wraith]

ah

[wind spade]

that's why there was the color lol

[burnt wraith]

silica it is

[wind spade]

the middle smart splitter should filter red items to sink (down)

[burnt wraith]

it works

[wind spade]

I started with mk5 when drawing the thing but you only need 120 production, so mk2+ is enough

[burnt wraith]

and if I pick up 1 of the incoming silica, it spits out 1 quartz

[wind spade]

the production acts as "power" for the NOT gate

[sand epoch]

Im looking at it and wonder what its purpose is.. lol

[wind spade]

it's a NOT gate

if items are coming in, no items are coming out

and vice versa

purpose: to prove that theoretically you can build computers inside satisfactory

[sand epoch]

Why the last ss then? If it will always be 60 in max..?

[wind spade]

it won't

if no red items are coming, full 120 blue goes through

if red items are coming, only 60 blue goes through (as the red items limit the amount of blues in the green section)

see this

[sand epoch]

So.. its a sushi scenario only?

[wind spade]

umm... no?

or idk what you're asking

basically it is a contraption that works like this:

• if red IN belt has 60 ipm on it, the blue OUT belt will have 0 ipm
• if red IN belt has 0 ipm, then blue OUT belt will have 60 ipm

[sand epoch]

Does that only work if red isnt the same item as blue?

[wind spade]

yeah, red and blue items are different

[burnt wraith]

the signal moving along the circuit

[wind spade]

it's a slow NOT gate, but it's a NOT gate 🙂

[sand epoch]

Alrighty.

[proven prawn]

couldnt get it to work🙃

[wind spade]

why not? 🤔

[proven prawn]

im guessing i dont have the smart splitter settings correct?

[proven prawn]

it looks like because its mostly mk2 belts that have 60 capacity, 60 in and 60 from the machine aka power is 120, so the overflow the ss for power is never tripped, and those 120 go to the middle ss, etc

infact looking at your setup pictures idk how anything would ever go to the overflow because its all mk2 belts and those the capacity would never make the overflow activate hmmm

[burnt wraith]

it can't take both 120 from power and 60 from input and fit that on a mk2 belt

[proven prawn]

well...im dumb🙃

[worldly sun]

Does anyone know if there will be logic gates added into the game?

[wind spade]

nobody knows

[worldly sun]

It will be cool though

[frosty owl]

They can be made (it's cumbersome, but possible)

[median heath]

Probably not.

[tropic hawk]

There is some kind of analog logic you can do (I know that makes little sense, but I'm talking about with SS and Poggers)

[glad vigil]

Logic gates DLC when

And the only real use for them would be flushing toilet in hub

[tropic hawk]

Mods.

[median heath]

You can very easily make yes/no gates with power switches and Truck Stations.

[boreal cypress]

Flushing Toilet is already a DLC "announcement"

[ashen mantle]

Logic gates can be made already technically

You can make a turing machine in the game if you try hard enough

[boreal cypress]

Still they are useless, you cant read them or do anything else with them

[ashen mantle]

You can use them to interface with a power grid in some ways

[gloomy palm]

i could see something being useful in terms of logic if you wanted to make a more compact factory at the expense of needing more time to produce the same parts

because the logic could be used to switch between active and inactive machines, allocating power only where it's needed, one section of the factory at a time, for instance

i'm not really sure how else logic is useful apart from sorting items which is already possible with the splitters 🤔 hmm

[dense stream]

you could do so much with the Combinators from factorio in this game

[wind spade]

I have yet to find a good usage for cominator-like stuff for SF

[stark bronze]

logic is good for limited resources
(roblox house aka the argument falling apart gif)

[tropic hawk]

The what?

[wind spade]

factorio's equivalent of redstone

[sand epoch]

Redstone?

[wind spade]

minecraft's equivalent of factorio's combinators 😛

[sand epoch]

Joy.. another game i dont play.. lol

[wind spade]

basically it's a system that allows you to send signals through wires and react to the signals in other places. e.g. turn off machine when storage has over 1000 items or stuff like that

[median heath]

Which all sounds very useful in situations where you don't have unlimited resource nodes...

[wind spade]

well yeah (though in Factorio you can also control lamps/color, play sounds from speakers and stuff like that)

[glad vigil]

It would be cool to have an ability to automatically change recipes in production buildings and manage item flow using logic (constructor makes rods. When it makes a certain amount of rods flow of iron ingots stops and it sends these rods into its own input to make screws)

[wind spade]

that's not possible even in factorio 🤔 (without mods)

the problem with dynamically changing a recipe is how to deal with items that are in the machine

[median heath]

I'm just trying to find out where such functionality would be... useful?

Like I get that it would be "cool". But when would you ever actually need to be able to do it?

[wind spade]

in Factorio it's also in the section of "cool but not required" 🤷‍♂️

I'd like to see it in SF, though I don't want it there until 1.0

[fringe pawn]

Have a set of flexible constructors, manufacturers, and other machines wired up with some programmable splitters which you could remotely tell to make any part, which then gets fed to a drone port? But as mentioned the parts already in the system pose a problem. You need a way to flush them.

[stark bronze]

how do you even make logic connections look acceptable without the 2D corner cutting privileges

[wind spade]

wdym?

you could reuse power network for that tbh

[stark bronze]

factorio doesnt have per machine cables so logic cables stand out

example of power network controlling building behavior 💡
it gets confusing real fast

[wind spade]

yeah, just throwing ideas around... logical/circuit networks get confusing fast anyway 😛

[glad vigil]

The entirety of satisfactory is “cool, but not actually required”

[stark bronze]

breaking news
video games start disappearing one after another at alarming speeds after their respective playerbase suggested specific features

[proven prawn]

and those it came to pass that the devs learned the hard way why not to ea games anymore, and those all games were hence forth developed and test in house until 1.0 and those peace was finally restored.

[remote ice]

ok but imagine if you could:
set machine recipes with logic
control splitters and mergers with logic

you could make field-programmable factories - you want bullets? It's making bullets. You want nobelisks? Now its making nobelisks.

[gloomy palm]

Ah okay yeah that is an intriguing prospect 🤔

[wind spade]

set machine recipes
how do you deal with items that are in the machine when recipe changes?

control splitters and mergers with logic
how do you deal with items in splitter's inventory?

[gloomy palm]

Delete them

[remote ice]

it's nontrivial but you can design around both of those - make sure all inputs are perfect ratios and machines finish processing and everything clears the belts before switching recipes

[gloomy palm]

Explode them

Kill them, kill them all

[wind spade]

I mean from the game's perspective. From the code perspective

[remote ice]

make a sad beep-boop noise and don't switch recipes if the machine has anything in its buffers?

[wind spade]

so... all the time?

[gloomy palm]

You could set belts into a flush mode that sends everything to storage or sink before feeding the next items through

[remote ice]

also that, you could just have the machine briefly output all buffers to the output belt or something

[gloomy palm]

Ye

[remote ice]

i guess you'll still have problems with... machines that have input belts but no outputs? Are there any of those?