math-and-meta

[sullen mulch]

thanks a lot haha

hopefully it will pay off

[crystal charm]

i probably should ask this here, what's the most effective motor factory

like, efficiency of building, everything

from miners to final product, which alt recipes etc

[ornate shoal]

it really depends what you want to achieve

copper rotor recipe is probably universally good

[median heath]

Electric Motor and Rigour are both great alts.

[river pagoda]

Hmm still on the fence about whether to dedicate 3 iron nodes to 1 component a piece or just have each set of iron nodes produce 1 product :/

20 rotors per node for 3 nodes, or 20 rotors, 20 reinforced plates, and making a lot of iron wire, or 10 smart plating with 2 nodes and the last node splits between rotors and reinforced plates just so I have them available for storage

[tropic hawk]

Depends on how much you need. Most people figure that out and work backwards to find a site rather than pick a site and try to see what they can do with it.

[river pagoda]

Yeah. Was trying to also think in terms of like not having to redo factories in the long term but I think that is gonna be unavoidable considering if I unlock more alternate recipes

[tropic hawk]

It is essentially unavoidable. So plan for your use case in the near future, and don't be afraid to tear out entire factories

[solid crystal]

and you might want to upgrade those factories anyway when you unlock higher tier miner's and belts (unless you are already to that point). I know until I unlock mk5 belts and mk3 miners that most any factory I have built in the past will need to be redone or at least a huge makeover to make more crap. LOL

[river pagoda]

Yeah. Well most of my favorites are built for mk3 miners and mk5 belts it’s just getting to that point. Unfortunately I’ve neglected my steel production so I’m a sitting duck on researching tiers 😂

[ivory peak]

Mk.4 stuff good , lol steel production a good thing to going

[river pagoda]

Yep. I have the miners and cliff lifts setup for pure coal and the miners setup for the pure iron nodes but that’s about where I stopped

I think what causes me to stop was getting a alternate recipe for iron that involved water extractors and I just kinda got lost on that one

[ivory peak]

yee i ran 2 of each pure node, mk2 miner ,mk4 belts oc 200% you get 960 of coal and iron/min , i ran that into 20 smelters 2 oc down by X amount, but that gives you alot of steel to work with until you find alt recipe

[river pagoda]

Oh that reminds me I have a steel alt recipe

[solid crystal]

and the math gets weird with that alt from what I recall. I'm all for getting the most out of every ore node, but damn, stop trying to make my brain hurt with crazy math

[ivory peak]

yee the pure ingot recipies are gucci

[tropic hawk]

There is this neat thing called calculators...

[river pagoda]

Ig but it does make things weirder when using the alt iron recipe tho

Get 1/4 of an item, or 3/4 of an item

[ivory peak]

in game you can use the search thing "n" i believe and you can do your math in game 🙂

[river pagoda]

Oh?

[ivory peak]

mhmm

[solid crystal]

I am aware. LOL. Still doesn't change the fact that when you are trying to run a somewhat balanced setup that the inputs or outputs of certain alt recipes throws wrenches in it

[ivory peak]

keep a pen and paper hand to write your things down thoo that might help ya a bit

[river pagoda]

Yes when the setup outputs 33.75 iron ingots a min

[solid crystal]

and you need 50 of that for the next input

[wind spade]

how so? you just use some website to calculate how many machines you need and then build that many 🤷‍♂️

[river pagoda]

Yeah so normally rn it seems for the basic iron items like rotors and reinforced plates you only need 8 smelters per normal node

[solid crystal]

because I bought a game to play the game, not spend more time on a website calculator to make a half way efficient factory. LOL

[wind spade]

most calculators out there produce result in like 5 seconds and then you just build

[solid crystal]

it's like some of you are arguing FOR weird outputs with alt recipes

[oblique hollow]

its part of the challenge

[river pagoda]

I spend my time doing this just so I can make the layout portion easier on myself

[oblique hollow]

if the devs wanted to make your life easy everything would be a multiple of 30

[wind spade]

I'm arguing that ratios between recipes don't matter at all since you can just underclock the last machine and have pretty much any output you want

[river pagoda]

As long as you have the required input you can do anything you want ^

[tropic hawk]

Amen.

[river pagoda]

Makes sense. I made sure to underclock my rotor setup a bit so I get 20 reinforced plates and 20 rotors for 1 smart plating a min

[glass heart]

tbh I get the feeling the devs encourage you to not pay attention to perfect ratios. Everything is much, much simpler if you stop worrying about it, and just build what you think you need, and if you find out it's now using up all your X, build more X
I think that's specifically why the ratios get weird later on, and especially with alternates, so you don't rely on getting things exact

Other than ores and base level mats; I do like to at least saturate those

[frosty owl]

I don't think the devs encourage either kind of gameplay between more and less complex ones

[median heath]

They aren't weird at all if you use the 45-81 rule 🤷‍♂️

[glass heart]

What is that? lol
Though I did notice, after an annoyingly long time, that right around the time you get things coming out in 45's instead of 30's, you get T3 belts that can support 3x90, and between T1/2 and T3/4 you should be able to make most anything saturate

[wind spade]

a weird rule to have perfect ratios for recycled loop + diluted fuel, which almost noone really uses since you can underclock 😄

[median heath]

?

No.

[glass heart]

lol, I don't even underclock, I just set the extra fuel to overflow into an AWESOME sink...

[median heath]

The 81 half, yes. The 45 half is about every other item in the game...

If you ever actually read what I type greeny 😭😭😭😭

And underclocking doesn't solve repeating decimals.

45 does

[vapid gorge]

You know you can just divide the output machines by input and it’ll tell you the exact number you need. Then you can just change the clock on the last one

[wind spade]

repeating decimals don't need to be solved as game isn't precise enough to go above 4 decimals anyway

[glass heart]

I am doing searches and the explanation is interesting and seems valid to me

[median heath]

Getting 19.9998 instead of 20 is problematic.

Hence they need to be solved.

[glass heart]

the tldr being, the game only uses 4 decimals yes - and truncates instead of rounding

[wind spade]

solution is just round up

[glass heart]

if you can make it not truncate, you get more

[wind spade]

no

[glass heart]

and apparently multiples of 81 for oil and 45 for most other things, makes sure that all machines only have up to 4 decimals in their clock speeds, so you never get truncated

[median heath]

If it makes you happier I will just never bring it up again...

[median heath]

Yes.

But apparently this is stupidity so I shouldn't mention it anymore is what I am getting.

God forbid I want exact numbers in my game 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

how is it problematic if you just overbuild 0.00004 on each machine

and it most likely won't have any effect given the number precision in the game

[glass heart]

Well, the part I'm interested in is non-oil; if I'm bringing in a bunch of ore and making 60/minute of ingots.... I'm actually not

everything maxed out is really only doing what, 59/minute or something?

ingots might be too simple though, I'm unsure if they're affected... they tend to run at 30/minute in/out, which should just be a clock speed of 500ms, no rounding there...

[wind spade]

if you have long enough belt, then yes

[median heath]

Beauty of the dev's evil.
Ore comes in 60s.
Items are done best in 45s.
Belts are done in 60s.

Perfection is unattainable by design.

[glass heart]

well, T3+ belts are 30's and 90's, the 90's being quite good at handling 45's

[median heath]

Yes but we're talking full design, so 780s.

45 and 60 cross at 180.
So if you do everything in 180s it would be the closest you could get.
180/360/540/720

[glass heart]

oh idk, I'm mostly still at T3s and was appreciating that it gives you the solution to dealing with 90

[median heath]

How is everything "play the way you want, nothing is better" until this, when you're admantantly "why would you ever do that when you can just overbuild by X amount?"

[glass heart]

But why are items best done in 45's? I mean yes that's an 0.75 but, 30's and 60's also are nice and round, 0.5 and 1 clockspeeds

[median heath]

Because it puts the machines inside the decimal window to not be truncated.

[wind spade]

you can play the game the way you want but I can still state my opinion 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

When you get to higher complexity items it becomes more apparent.

At the stage you're in it really doesn't matter enough.

[glass heart]

That's fair. I am indeed mostly asking for the sake of basic items, and if my understanding of my entire factory's input/output rate is wrong 😛

[median heath]

Usually your opinion is neutral.
The only thing I know you to be against is Cast Screw...
But also this now.

[glass heart]

but 30's and 60's are also good, if available, yes?

[median heath]

If the machines aren't outside the clock limitations you're fine.

[river pagoda]

Hmmm

So 60 rotors a minute isn’t too bad.

MkI belts ftw

[wind spade]

I'm against tons of things... busses, megabases, train spirals, hypertube cannons, balancers, handcrafting stuff like portable miners, ...

[river pagoda]

I used to make balancers 😑

[median heath]

The 45-81 rule comes in handy when you have a line with like 16 different levels to it, because it makes them all automatically fall in line without you having to pre-check anything.

[glass heart]

Ah I see, so mostly self-contained lines

I tend to, for any given part, just build as many as I can with my current belt throughputs, send them off to storage, and pull from there later. If I need to update it for more later, I'll double the amount

[river pagoda]

Yeah. Just add a second story and a splitter and add more stuff above your current factory. That’s how I’m doing it.

[glass heart]

I wish I had been that smart, yeah

I convinced myself it'd be a good idea to always no matter what, ship the products back to base, and then back out from base, so my base always has all the storage

except screws, because they are too much trouble to move around in quantity, just build onsite

[river pagoda]

Yeah I just store at the factories themselves. Have stockpiles of the items in a separate room than ship out where it needs to go from there so there is a buffer

[glass heart]

yep, that is probably the smart play. I just didn't like the idea of having to go around to 12 different sites to get all the materials I need to stock up on for myself

but then obviously you can just, ship out a bit of excess for that purpose

[river pagoda]

Yeah. Make a small facility with just single storage containers for the excess so you have something you can go to, to get items. That’s my plan atleast.

Since my main hub is pretty much away from all ore nodes I figured I’d have plenty of space to store items

[glass heart]

Yeah I'm still at a reasonably early tier and mine's already getting a bit out of hand... this is only like half of them, the backside has more, and the outside is only items going up - the middle has all the ones going down to storage

.... but tbh I kinda like the look of a factory whose walls are just crawling

but yes I understand now why greeny is against megafactories and I probably am too at this point 😛

(Unsure if this is what he meant, but I am getting the distinct feeling that the game's mechanics make everything easier when you have lots of space (unlike in a mega factory where you're inherently limited), it's easier to make things pretty when in smaller pieces, verticality is a little discouraged when fluids come into play, and many resources can be trivially produced with only a single mine, so why would you not make them off-site)

[river pagoda]

Yep!

I’m also pretty sure I spend more time moving things around in the SCIM production calculator than I do playing the game lol

[ashen mantle]

Planning on harvesting every resource node in the dunes, how long can I expect this to take

[fringe pawn]

What are you going to do with all those nodes? If you're just feeding it all right into sinks, not long, but presumably that's not the case.

[ashen mantle]

I'm planning on putting it on a massive rail line to my main base where it'll be sorted and processed, since I'm running out of capacity with iron, coal, limestone, etc.

Just looking at the map there is so fucking many nodes

Like, damn

Also, how fast am I going to exceed 24.5k items per second? That's, like, kinda the maximum my sorting system back at the main facility can handle rn

32 mk5 conveyors, btw

[wind spade]

2.4k items per second? that's 186 mk5 conveyors

[fringe pawn]

And that's assuming you saturate each belt

[wind spade]

(also, if you don't mix belts, you don't have to sort) 😛

[wind spade]

belts do 780/min

[ashen mantle]

Ohhhh

24,960 per min, my bad

[ashen mantle]

Everything will be aggregating, so I expect to saturate it all

[ashen mantle]

Not just sorting, smelting, processing, and allocation too

[wind spade]

well if you don't do mixed belts then you don't have to worry about belt limits, as you can always just build more belts 🤷‍♂️

[livid meteor]

Which one is more valuable middle or right?

[versed violet]

People will scream 'stitched plate!', but from two alloys, of course copper. It allows to boost production using useless iron, and has a high output per machine meaning less power usage. Iron alloy is ... junk. Sacrificing expensive copper to get almost no extra return, with a low output speed per machine.

[median heath]

Left.

[livid meteor]

I went for copper alloy 👍

[median heath]

Also Iron Alloy has solid value if you play for local resources only.
If you do map-wide resources then you'll never use it.

Copper Alloy is decent, but Pure Copper is better in terms of getting max Copper.

[vapid gorge]

Not limited in space if you plan for it!

[median heath]

Once you get to larger builds, Copper Alloy is just "hi, I'm choosing to have less Copper"

[glass heart]

No matter how much you plan and have tons of space, there will always be a possible setup that requires more space than you have

[wind spade]

space is infinite pretty much 🤷‍♂️

[glass heart]

It is quite annoying to get 80 hours in before you realize that you'd like to scale up your (insert_anything) production and to do so, you'd have to build the entire base out bigger, or have one weird floor

[wind spade]

just copy the whole setup somewhere else 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

Some people can't be bothered with setting thousand of refineries

[wind spade]

or always produce from ores to final product in one factory

[glass heart]

that's my point 😛 I'm agreeing that megabases aren't ideal

[ashen mantle]

I just build new factories, I never expand on one once it's done, at best I demolish it

[glass heart]

small modular ones are great, and don't have to go anywhere near eachother

[wind spade]

yeah, just saying that "I don't have space" is a bad argument 🤷‍♂️

[ashen mantle]

And even so, demolishing them is rare unless I need the resources, I have 9 factories sitting in my world that haven't had power in weeks

[wind spade]

correct one would be "I don't want to use all this space I have here for aesthetical reasons"

[ashen mantle]

Is it just me or do the dunes get insanely dark compared to the rest of the map at night

[fringe pawn]

Environmental lighting is kinda wonky right now because it isn't final. U6 is bringing a major overhaul in this regard. I'm curious if it will also revamp flood lights, I would love for their light to actuall have diffusion.

[river pagoda]

Nah just stack em or build like your using fully upgraded machines(meaning mk3 miners and mk5 belts) than you’ll have the layout for it already without much rearranging

I haven’t had to do much of anything for expansion since I did that to begin with

[vapid gorge]

What if, you built high tier items, start to finish, in a big enough volume for it to be a mega base? Best of both?

[wind spade]

Megabase is usually referring to a playstyle where all production is in a single spot, not to an actual factory that's big

[burnt wraith]

you don't like the super directional horror lighting?

[fringe pawn]

Combined with the coloring options, I think the current behavior is great for people who want a certain aesthetic. I just think diffusion and brightness should have their own sliders so everyone can get what they want out of flood lights, as I have no doubt there are people who would hate it if flood lights instantly behaved as their name implies.

[still trout]

mini starter factory i just came up with

turning iron into its five starter forms

also spent like two hours building that thing but double in size

slow builder moment

[wind spade]

Ew screws

[burnt wraith]

I thought it was a neat factory

[river pagoda]

Hey you need all those parts for something. That’s pretty much what my starter factory has for producing things I need to build other factories

[burnt wraith]

well, you don't need screws for anything

[median heath]

You do not in any way need infinitely replenished storage of Screws.

[burnt wraith]

I have learned that using screws for rotors is pretty efficient though

[median heath]

Indeed.

Store Rotors. Not Screws.

👍

[iron prairie]

There are a few odds and ends which require screws, so it's maybe worth it to have one storage container laying around somewhere, but yes, for the most part, you only need screws as an intermediate part.

[ashen mantle]

This is such a nice layout imo

[iron prairie]

Other than that: would there be any interest in an Excel spreadsheet laying out a resource cost per GW for the major power sources, with fields to let you set how much each unit of resource "costs"?

If you assume a simple weighting scheme (if there is 1/4 as much of resource X on the map as there is iron, it "costs" 4x more than iron), for example, you get the following costs:

Compacted Coal: 1447 u/GW
Fuel: 203 u/GW
Turbo blend fuel: 319 u/GW
Classic turbofuel: 433 u/GW
Stage 1 nuclear*: 175 u/GW
Stage 2 nuclear: 117 u/GW

*Nuclear calculations assume use of uranium fuel unit, enriched uranium fuel cell, and default plutonium recipes. Stage 1 sinks the plutonium rods, stage 2 burns them.```

[iron prairie]

On a sidenote: this means I can finally calculate what the indirect resource consumption is for power-hungry alts like pure iron. Assuming all the math is right, pure iron saves you 30 iron ore per 65 iron ingots, at the cost of requiring an additional 0.749 crude oil if you're using fuel generators.

[river pagoda]

I think its about time I put down more coal generators

[still trout]

bruh yall theres some hub tiers which require screws i think

and just for manual crafting too

[wind spade]

which just proves Sev's point, that you don't need automated screws, since you just need a limited amount of them

you only need screws for these

• awesome shop

[still trout]

i'm gonna use screws for those then

maybe i'll also make ammo with them once those are done

no wait why did i say ammo

i guess i can repurpose the screw maker to make rods and then rebar

[oblique hollow]

screws for ammo would be more fun

rebar gun? nah
rivet rifle

[fringe pawn]

Multiplayer easter egg that lets you screw another player's screen, You Don't Know Jack style?

[earnest ember]

I want to ask you guys that what amount of plastic,rubber,resin,coke and fuel needed for my factory to work(including alternative recipes)

Cuz I haven’t find all recipes in world

[oblique hollow]

that is a question that has no answer

because nobody knows how much your factory needs

@earnest ember

[earnest ember]

Lol

Ok thank you then

[oblique hollow]

you need to start somewhere

if you dont know how much you need, nobody else can help you either

for oil stuff, start with circuit boards (and later computers)

[earnest ember]

This factory is rebuild

Cuz update6 affected my factory

Iron copper oil

All need rebuild

[oblique hollow]

well, can't help there.

[earnest ember]

Gonna dead

[median heath]

Solving forwards doesn't work.

You need to pick what you want being built as your end production and solve backwards from there if you're looking for answers about basic item levels.

[daring mesa]

So according to my wiki research and calculation the maximum mining production rate is 1200/m (with mk.3 on a pure node with 250% overclock). Does it mean that we cannot make it 100% efficient because we are bottleneck with Mk.5's 780/m speed? Or is there a way to bypass the bottleneck by somehow instantly splitting the items into multiple belt without needing to go through the bottlenecking belt?

[median heath]

Without cheating you're stuck at 780, yes.

[daring mesa]

So if I have mk.3 AND a pure node, there is no point in ever overclocking pass 162.5%... since it is impossible (without cheating) to 100% efficiently keep up with over 780/m production?

[median heath]

Correct.

1200 was set before they knew 780 would be the limit.

Solving the issue is on their to-do list.

[frank mesa]

Adding a second belt output to the MK3 miner, or rebalancing everything.

[oblique hollow]

thats why they havent done anything yet

because they havent yet decided what to do

[frosty owl]

Just keep on manually taking out the excess from the miner

[river pagoda]

Oh thank you. I’ve been wondering what recipes require them.

[river pagoda]

No lol

[solid crystal]

at end game you don't need automated screws, but I would venture a guess and say that most people around here aren't where you and Sev are. A newer player in a fresh world isn't going to have every alt recipe in the game, and if they are working their way through the tiers, are going to need to automate screws to make a variety of items just to build their factories. Or are the veteran players around here suggesting that newer players manually make screws for reinforced plate for their mk2 belts?

[river pagoda]

Lol no thanks, I just make the plates

I hand crafted enough as is

[median heath]

There is a difference between having automated Screws that feed a specific production chain, and having them supply a storage container.

Automate them where applicable ofc in base recipes and even later on with things like Copper Rotor.
But just making X per minute infinitely for storage is not necessary.

Make enough to fill like a small personal box and then discontinue automation outside of feeding recipes.

Personal box will get you all the equipment, specific milestones, and enough for multiple AWESOME shops easily.

[solid crystal]

Thanks @median heath , it gets confusing when Greeny specifically said that "you don't need automated screws", which is what brought about my comment. I totally understand that you don't need to automate screws only to store them. Any alt's that put a dent in the 8.7million screws needed just for the Space Elevator project is surely welcome. lol

[median heath]

Yeah this is what we both mean, not always the best at articulating it to newer people.

Just make your box and you're set.

Same reason you should never automate Heat Sinks to storage. Exclusively used in the creation of other items.

[late orchid]

Do you prefer a dedicated factory for building materials, or “skim off the top” of an existing production line?

I have a few production lines where instead of underclocking a machine, i use a smart splitter at the end of the manifolds to pull any overflow into storage. I’m only doing this for some of the later tier electronics like AI limiters and high speed connectors where the quantity needed for building doesn’t seem worth setting up a dedicated factory.

[median heath]

I don't understand the question and I'm assuming because it's based on a non-outposting setup.

Like you say AILs and HSCs have quantity issues...
But I am making over 500 AILs/min at the AIL outpost...

Because the Oscillator outpost needs 461+/min
Rest goes to storage...

So that is both having a dedicated factory for the item, and also "skimming off the top" of an existing line.

🤷‍♂️

[late orchid]

That clarifies a lot actually.

So you built a huge facility for AILs which ships to COs, but there is leftover which you store or could allocate to another line?

[median heath]

There is no other line.

All places AILs will be going and in what amount is decided before even building the outpost.

How would I build the outpost without knowing the amount it needs to produce?

[late orchid]

I see, I was looking at using AILs for EMCRs and COs.

[median heath]

If I was going to use AILs for ECRs, that would be in the total amount set before the first foundation was even placed.

I use the Connection Rod alt though, so it requires only Stators and HSCs.

[late orchid]

That’s exactly what I’m trying to decide about lol.

I don’t quite know how big I want to go yet.

[median heath]

HSC outpost also produces over 600/min because it feeds the ECRs and the Supers.

[median heath]

Can't nail down your numbers until you do.

You need to decide how many Turbos and Supers per min you want, then solve backwards from there.

[late orchid]

Ah interesting. I was able to finish project assembly building 2/min of each.

Originally my next project was going to be a full nuclear setup. But I don’t want to start that if beacons are going to be removed and the alt fuel Rod recipe changes.

[median heath]

Being able to finish Project Assembly is just a step in the road.
What you actually want to have built and running is a different decision entirely.

Heh, build giant walls around all the remaining biomes that are still flagged red with big signs that say "UNDER CONSTRUCTION"

😂

[wind spade]

as Sev said, "automating screws" for me means that you automate screws to put into storage. Having screws part of production line is completely fine, but I don't count that as "automating screws", as the production line is automating something else

[muted crypt]

^ditto, I use the same terminology

When you process even just something as simple as one constructor for iron plates, you typically wouldn't name intermediates... "I'm automating 30 iron ore, 30 iron ingots and 20 iron plates with my factory!" would usually be cut down to just the final product, being the iron plates

[daring mesa]

Just for fun, I am trying to solve this problem:
A miner produces 780/min iron ore and smelter takes 75/min iron ore. You are trying to smelt most of the iron ore into iron ingots but its fine to extract out some iron ore (not smelt it, just store it) as long as the whole pipeline is 100% efficient.

So the closest idea I got was:

1. extract out 1/8th of the iron ore (97.5/m) using 3 splitters and a merger, thus we have 682.5/m iron ore to smelt
2. Split that into 9 (split 3 and 3) thus we have 9 belts with 75.8/m iron ore.
   That however is slightly more ore than the smelter could keep up.

So anyone have any different idea? (preferably its as little complexity and be slightly less than slightly more)

[median heath]

Wouldn't simplest be x10 @75 and x1 @30 for 780?

Save shards by doing x13 @60

[median heath]

@daring mesa

[silver cargo]

what would be the easiest way to split a 120, 240, 360 and 480 line into 6 200 lines

[daring mesa]

that would be the smart way.. since you would save shard. But I was thinking about a hypothetical situation where I would want to try to maximize everything 😄

[median heath]

How is getting 780 out of 780 not maximized?

[daring mesa]

actually wait ye, my bad XD

I miscalculated. 13x60 😄

[oblique hollow]

combining things into 600 lines and the splitting that in 3

[median heath]

780/30 * 2

[oblique hollow]

but doing 600 would need mk 5 belts

other option would be somehow doing 300 and splitting that into 3, then recombining

[median heath]

Or just send 780 down 1 line..

[oblique hollow]

easiet option is simply overflow

[oblique hollow]

was for Zoutige

[median heath]

Oh

[oblique hollow]

i dunno if they have mk 5 belts

[silver cargo]

thx but i already got it

[oblique hollow]

aight, nice

[silver cargo]

i split the 120 240 and 360 into 6 120 lines and then split the 480 into 6 80 lines

and i dont have mk 5 belts yet so i cant use 600 lines

[median heath]

Good lord why...

[silver cargo]

i feel like a felon

[median heath]

You should.

[oblique hollow]

arrest him

[silver cargo]

my factories arent like this

i only do shit like this outside cuz im lazy and ill never look at it

[silver cargo]

useless ass calculator

ohhh i need to select the alt recipe first

smh

[oblique hollow]

bad calculator

why not use satisfactory tools

[unkempt acorn]

and this is just 1 floor... ive got 14 more to do

[silver cargo]

Never thought of that one

Holy shit this one is way better

[frosty owl]

:blame_greeny:

[wind spade]

[median heath]

Wow. Makes his own emotes.

#Audacity

[wind spade]

wasn't made by me 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

[boreal shuttle]

Unfortunately greeny is a pale blue

[limpid canyon]

Good Morning!

[wind spade]

checks clocks

[limpid canyon]

Might be the 65406543. which askin for that but i dun get smart out of coal plants. a coal plant on 250% OC with full propper water income has a targeted output power of 187,5MW. on left side of power plant it just offers me 151,8MW. Typo? Math-Choke? all req. ressources are served by mk4- belts/mk2-pipe.

[wind spade]

151.8 is correct

[boreal cypress]

strange jep

[limpid canyon]

so whats about those 187,5 MW offered by overclocking?

[wind spade]

that's buggy overclocking UI

[limpid canyon]

ah ya, here we go. just on coal plants or casual?

[wind spade]

on any power plants

has been like that since forever, but given that they'll most likely be changing clock speed mechanics, they probably don't bother with it now

the top left number should be correct

[limpid canyon]

oh, heard they will. seen something bout that on update 6- clip

[wind spade]

I hope they won't tho

[limpid canyon]

some sorta OC-revamp

as far as i understood 'em they just gonna let them OC on a plain way (100% =10MW///200%=20MW, not those weid skips as it is atm))

but my english pretty bad so dun take it as final

[wind spade]

"weird skips" is what gave the player a choice, whether to OC or not (save space, but at increased power consumption cost). If it becomes linear, it's just "always better to overclock" which is weird and removes the choice behind it

[limpid canyon]

yea but u can cheese atm SO hard by just building like 10000 smelter and set each on 1%

and u pay just like NOTHING to maintain

[wind spade]

I mean... sure? just need like gazillion of resources and space?

which again is a choice the player can make

[limpid canyon]

🙂

[wind spade]

also, that's underclocking, which could be changed without affecting overclocking 🤷‍♂️

[boreal cypress]

I never bothered about OC... just for mines and extractors

or when I forgot ONE machine so I OC one to 200%... never checked the power ^^

[limpid canyon]

but to end this here: lets hope they gonna fix that durin next patch cause i struggle pretty hard if informations buggy/ambivalent

[wind spade]

power generators scale as ^(1/1.3), other buildings scale as ^1.6

[limpid canyon]

merci again *noticin that

[tropic hawk]

Good night.

[limpid canyon]

5:21am here, soo...... 😄

but you're right, should change to "hello"-term or somelike. allways skippin the timezone-thingy

[boreal cypress]

or just say "moin" german word for every... time based words like morning, evening and so on ^^

[limpid canyon]

actual its not a time based but means "land in sight" but just none of the german remember that

[boreal cypress]

how does "moin" mean "land in sight" o.0

[limpid canyon]

weils aus dem friesischen kommt und der seefahrer-szene entspringt

[boreal cypress]

Ahh thx, never knew that but how does it come to be a greeting?

[limpid canyon]

[ cause its "fries"(??) and used by naval ain ancient time] (or somelike, as said, my english sux)

greeting since just every naval is damn happy to get back on land again

"galileo" told me this once

so might be fakenews but, well....

[tropic hawk]

Or just say 'Greetings Mortal' like every omega level Kardashev scale being.

[limpid canyon]

how about "combat me, heretics"? or totaly wrong genre?

and how long to wait for an WH-mod of satisfactory? build your own edict?

[boreal cypress]

WH?

[limpid canyon]

Warhammer. that you even DARE to ask 🤣

[boreal cypress]

Just played DoW2 ^^' so :D

[limpid canyon]

mah, worst of all

[boreal cypress]

liked the camapaign the most ^^ never got into DoW1/3

[limpid canyon]

kick that dow at all.

has just nothin to do with warhammer itself

[boreal cypress]

And the other games arent even my genre

but I respect the whole lore about the WH Universe

[limpid canyon]

its a damn HUGE one

and alot of genre represented with WH. FPS for example

[tropic hawk]

Blood for the blood king

[limpid canyon]

🙂 last time someone asked me if it's the new samsung mobile. "wh40k"

remembered me how damn old i am atm.

[tropic hawk]

WarHammer40000: now hammers your war for you!

[limpid canyon]

still savin money for the daemonhunter-bundle

[tropic hawk]

At this point, I now think we are #off-topic-general

[boreal cypress]

but tbh... the DoW3 Trailer was epic ^^'

jeah you're right xD

[limpid canyon]

yea, ure right, we should jump

[tropic hawk]

Gn.

[limpid canyon]

gn!

[fluid forge]

what clock speed do use to get the inputs at 30/min?

idk how to math ity

[worthy island]

You can enter the output quantity direct into that UI and it will do the math for you - just type over where it says 12.5

[fluid forge]

i want to modify the inputs

not output

if 55 = 100% then what is 60?

[wind spade]

you can't get them exactly to 30

[worthy island]

Ah ok - that's 9.09% repeating

[fluid forge]

looks like im getting a 5/min sheet overflow

[wind spade]

why so? 🤔

[fluid forge]

60 sheets production, 2x recipe above (2*27.5) = 55
60 -55 =5

[wind spade]

why not underclock the sheet production? 😛

[still trout]

just oc it to around the right number, it doesnt really matter

[vapid gorge]

The trailer was epic, the game was garbage

[river pagoda]

Oh nice. Its only just getting to 4am here

[sullen mulch]

never load balancing again

[gloomy pecan]

no pain no gain

[sullen mulch]

well the pain is now figuring out why the numbers are so funky in some spots

last time I checked the throughput should be the same as the belt

yep, not sure how I got a MK5 belt to max out at 750 items p/m

[gloomy pecan]

Everything is possible in this game

[sullen mulch]

couldn't agree more

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[sullen mulch]

a little thing I call quality of life

I don't have all year to calculate everything... and my maths is crap

[frosty owl]

Is this pioneer aware of belt-to-belt (b2b) connections not transporting max throughput?

[oblique hollow]

ideally:
you enter the following equation into the clockspeed field:
(30/27.5)*100
dont forget to insert a shard first

due to rounding it wont be suuuuper exact, buuut it always works out for me tbh

ah oops, forgot to actually ping (i think? sorry if i double pinged im on mobile xd)
@fluid forge

[muted crypt]

seems no

[thorn elk]

never knew this. is there anywhere i can read more about it?

[frosty owl]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/tgcf17/reminder_for_all_pioneers_that_care_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[thorn elk]

thank you!

[solid crystal]

Thoughts on my steel factory? I am utilizing Solid Steel, Iron Wire, Stitched Iron Plate, Steeled Frame and Encased Industrial Pipe for alt recipes. All my concrete is actually going to be made offsite because of transport efficiency, and I may just bring in RIP from my starter factory, since I am already producing it there in excess.

[wind spade]

no wet concrete

[solid crystal]

building in the middle of the rocky desert, so getting water inland doesn't seem like the best use of resources. I did think about it though.

as it is, I am probably going to be trucking in the coal from the 4 normal nodes on the East side of the Rocky Desert.

[boreal cypress]

in rocky desert is a lot of water near Limestone

in the west

But I wish their will be a machine for pure recipes

[wind spade]

purificator

[solid crystal]

Okay, adjusted plan for wet concrete. Tractor will have to go a little bit further, but it shouldn't be a problem.

[median heath]

There is a machine for pure recipes?

Called a Refinery..

[glad vigil]

Is extracting oil from wells worth it?

[wind spade]

if you need oil, sure

[oblique hollow]

all oil is good oil

[silver cargo]

i have one turbofuel pipe and 55 gens is it better to just connect them manifold style or split it up in sections?

[oblique hollow]

doesnt matter

loop the pipe anyway

[silver cargo]

aight

[versed violet]

I wonder, if they are making the radar Towers actually useful in U6, wil they nerf the ping scanner? Reduce the range or something?

[small kayak]

It takes quite some time for the first radar tower to be built. It should be an upgrade that brings more a quality of life, so nerfing the normal scanner doesn't seem like a good idea in my opinion

[boreal cypress]

the scanner get a upg.. so cluster nodes arent shown as one node but instead you see that it is a cluster node (when far aways) and nearby you see all nodes on the compass

it seems that it even dont cap at 3 nodes anymore

[ashen mantle]

Is there a reason to put caterium into anything other than quickwire production and dump copper into it for the fused quickwire recipe?

[median heath]

Given QW and Wire are literally the only things you CAN use it for... no, there is no reason to put it into anything other than those 2 things.

[ashen mantle]

Not even wire, just quickwire

I feel like I have enough wire from copper

[median heath]

Then put it all into QW.

[boreal cypress]

I use caterium for fused wire and fused quickwire

[median heath]

Fused QW is just.. incredible.

Fused Wire is meh imo given you can legit make Wire from Iron.

[boreal cypress]

but you get a shit ton of wire for such small numbers of cat and copper

[median heath]

I'm not saying use only Iron Wire.

I'm saying I can use Copper, and if I need to supplement Iron is there 🤷‍♂️

Am curious which is better though...
Making Wire out of both Copper and Iron, or just Copper Alloy...

[boreal cypress]

better in which case?

[median heath]

Resources.

In both ways you're using Iron and Copper to make Wire.
One of them has to be cheaper. 🤷‍♂️

[serene burrow]

If you have water then pure iron ingot -> iron wire and pure copper ingots -> copper wire gives most wire/resource

without water, copper alloy better

[median heath]

Interesting.

[ashen mantle]

Realizing that maybe using all of the caterium on this map is excessive

[median heath]

Depends on which recipes you use.

[ashen mantle]

Holy shit pure copper x pure caterium and fused quickwire is such a gorgeous end result

1 to 1 refinery to assembler

And the caterium ingots are enough to fit on a single line

[fierce ruin]

I was wondering if it's possible to make recipes more linear and straight forward? I don't want to have 12.7 assemblers make just the right amount of resources for the recipe

[vapid gorge]

Theres a ton of alt recipes that do other things and can reduce the total number of machines sure. Haven't done an analysis but not sure if there's that much you can do to reduce the total complexity of higher tier items

[fierce ruin]

_ :(_

[vapid gorge]

it's an automation game where each tier up requires more and more parts. For example I think a 300 pm heavy modular frame factory consumes 40,000 parts per min at the start.

[vapid gorge]

You *can' choose to make very few machines and just make fractions of items per minute if you really want? Would probably have to leave things running while you're away from the computer to advance quick enough

[fierce ruin]

Yeah unfortunately

[vapid gorge]

What is it about putting down a dozen assemblers that's getting you down? It's a pretty core part of the game and 12 of them for a single part to go further down the line isn't actually very many.

[fierce ruin]

Yes but putting extra assemblers for everything adds up and I always run short on power

Plus overclocking isn't linear which I hope they re do

[vapid gorge]

So you enjoy the game in general but there are aspects that are frustrating you.

Well we could look at where you're at and what you're doing and maybe find some more streamlined ways or solutions that would be less annoying?

[fierce ruin]

Yes, it would be nicer if the math was simpler so I can use my head and don't use a website that tells me what to put and how much. It just becomes a chore at that point since you don't think

[vapid gorge]

What tier are you at?

[fierce ruin]

I played over 120 hours in my first world and reached nuclear power

After that I stopped because they re worked some recipes and I just didn't have fun anymore

[vapid gorge]

Actually setting it up or just unlocking?

[fierce ruin]

I set it up

3-5 nuclear plants

[vapid gorge]

wow impressive. When was this that they rewored recipes?

[fierce ruin]

Idk but it was like 6-8 months ago

[vapid gorge]

You sure there just wasn't some alts that got unlocked? They haven't removed recipes from the game in ages (or maybe ever) from what I recall

[fierce ruin]

Nowadays I start a new world, play for 10 hours and quit because I want my base to be neat and use my head but I have to refer to the website and then it's not fun

I'm just saying that if they made first recipes (not easy or hard) but just linear, it would be a nice quality of life. Of course alt recipes that require less resources is also great

[vapid gorge]

Right well I was going to suggest the way I go about things by just making 1 pure node's worth of each basic items and just belting things as needed when new tiers get added. You can make it neatish just not running at 100% all the time.

But yeah aiming to have neat factories from the start to end is going to take a lot of work. If you insist on doing that you might be better off building with the idea of 600 or 780 parts per minute so you only have to upgrade belts.

That's still a lot of work but would save you time.

[ornate shoal]

maybe try underclocking machines so their rates make sense to you. you can make machines work at any rate that you like them to.

[vapid gorge]

Also if power is an issue make it a project to find distant coal and build like 64 generators and not worry about it for a long while

[fierce ruin]

Yeah true

Anyway, Imma go to bed now, thanks for discussing this topic with me

[vapid gorge]

No prob! I did one restart with building for mk5 belts. Wasn't bad.

saves you power because of the savings on underclocking early on too

[glass heart]

You can have a neat base while overproducing; 90% of the time your stuff is just going to be sitting idle with storage full anyway. If you need 12.7 assemblers, make 13, and it's covered - and maybe some extra if you have to come back later

besides, with the current belt to belt problems, it's a rare setup that can actually utilize a full belt without encountering a glitch and slowing down

[wind spade]

Then underclock 😉

[upper cave]

The build interface even makes it easy these days. Just input the amount you want the group of assemblers make "/" and then the number of assemblers. Then copy paste that assembler to the others in the group. Done.

But then I am in the group who dislikes most of the various changes that have been made to make the game "easier". This will be the second time that the power system is being drastically modified and I hate that it is removing all of the subtlety that makes putting together a well designed factory an interesting puzzle.

BTW greeny, thanks for your tool. Helped me debug a few hard to find errors in one of my planning spreadsheets and made me look at a few of the weirder alternate recipes that I had previously removed from consideration.

[sullen mulch]

yeah can confirm I had no idea about this so basically what that means is i might aswell overflow my load balancer otherwise the throughput will bugger the efficiency.

[frosty owl]

I'm not sure what load balancer o ire referring to, but you should expect ALL full belts with MORE than 2 belt segments to back up (so, having a smart splitter before the first belt-belt connection, the splitter would output overflow even if "it shouldn't" due to the throughput loss)

Note: items don't disappear

There's a way to "weld" belt segments, btw. Finicky, but better than nothing

[sullen mulch]

yeah ok that explains why the MK5 belt looks like it is overflowing even though the input is 720 and not 780. Long story short I have load balanced 1400 iron ore p/m into 40 refineries for pure iron and the load balancing is theoretically perfect but most of the machines are sat at 85% efficiency and I'm now thinking it is probably because of the belts "backing up".

[wind spade]

load balancing 🤢

[median heath]

Not as bad as modding

[sullen mulch]

yikes

sorry i don't play the game your way but i like to see items constantly moving

[wind spade]

the side belts of a manifold can be made short enough that you don't see the items 😛

[sullen mulch]

I play the aesthetics game so I like to have things on display

helps draw attention from dodgy walls or clipped assets

[wind spade]

your main belt will still be visible 🤷‍♂️

[sullen mulch]

well that depends on the architecture

it's nice having a lot of belts to work with because you can make a factory look more "alive" using the belts

[wind spade]

you make your fps less alive with more belts tho 😛

[sullen mulch]

that's the plan

I wanted a super detailed save so I decided I wanted to see how low I could get my fps in this save

[wind spade]

just throw 50 trucks into a pit 😄

[sullen mulch]

That’s too easy, I’m not going to abuse notoriously laggy things to kill my fps but rather I’m just making more intense designs

[vapid gorge]

It won’t be b2b causing that if it’s only 720 on the belt. Even quite long mk5s can handle 750 over quite long distances

[sullen mulch]

well that means I have a really weird issue to resolve

[crystal charm]

how many nuclear reactors can you actually maintain

[wind spade]

more than two

[crystal charm]

cause there's only like what, 4-5 uranium deposits?

[wind spade]

252+224

[crystal charm]

what's with the +

[wind spade]

uranium + plutonium

[crystal charm]

but then you have serious waste issues right?

[wind spade]

no

[crystal charm]

cause atm, there's no way to get rid of plutonium waste

[wind spade]

waste issues are not really serious, you'd need decades for it to become a problem

and if you just put it somewhere at the edge, you're safe for rest of your life

[crystal charm]

what, you just build a series of containers off in some corner of unused territory and send it there?

[wind spade]

yeah

[crystal charm]

does plutonium really generate that little amount of waste?

i remember my first time messing with nuclear, and like 8 plants had me scrambling for waste storage, i filled like a half dozen containers in a very short period of time

[wind spade]

not little, but the radiation won't hit a significant portion of the map

[crystal charm]

also, my issues with keeping my power stable atm

i have 32 reactors, and 16 full pipes that get split

should i change the incoming pipe situation?

[wind spade]

given enough storage, radiation won't really cover a large portion of the map

I'd recommend building nuclear plants above water so you don't have to ship water from far

[crystal charm]

i checked the math on my shipping, and it all adds up, i even built extra extractors underneath to compensate for the train stops, the fluid flows fine for a while, and then just sort of fucks up

i rebuilt all the pipes at once stage cause i know they get buggy, maybe i'll just rebuild the entire thing at some stage

[wind spade]

pipes are weird

best to keep them short and simple 🤷‍♂️

[crystal charm]

the north east desert seems a good spot, lots of open water, lots of open land

[cinder silo]

In addition, you can make the nuclear plant smaller by building the reactors directly above water extractors, makes for far simpler plumbing.

[wind spade]

yeah that's what I mean

[cinder silo]

Like how I did it here 🙂

[cinder silo]

Ah sorry, I'm not entirely with it today, I just re-read your post.

[crystal charm]

well i'm definitely going to rebuild it at one stage

my mate and i just finally launched the final space elevator part, and will be backing off for a while

btw, that screenshot is a bit dark, but are those extractors overclocked?

[median heath]

Many, if you underclock them all to 1% 😉

[cinder silo]

One extractor per pair is overclocked to fully feed each nuke.

[crystal charm]

so 2 per nuke, and overclocked to feed 300. Much better than 5 to make a max mk2 pipe which doesn't want to flow properly for me

are you just doing one boost per 2?

i.e producing the minimum 300?

[cinder silo]

I did it for simplicity and a fairly compact nuclear plant, yes they are clocked to produce actually slightly over 300 but close enough.

[crystal charm]

so at least 2 power nodes per nuke

just trying to math out how many of those we've farmed atm

vs what would be needed

[cinder silo]

Only one water extractor out of each pair is clocked, that facility does have 100 nukes though so 100 shards (200 extractors)

[crystal charm]

they are base 120 right? overclock one to 150% and you get 120+180

[cinder silo]

Having just a wishbone shaped pipework per nuke was preferable to having an extra 100 extractors and a more complex pipe

[crystal charm]

that's 300

[cinder silo]

Oops, just noticed my mistake, sec ~ fixed!

nixed more like, I edited the wrong post!

I'm just going to grab a coffee.

[frosty owl]

(Sorry if this is the only screen I could find atm)
I like to do 1 extractor per generator as I like how things line up that way. The 4th extractor in each group is an "overflow" one that tops off "fluid load loss"

[frosty owl]

*250%

[cinder silo]

Fluid loss is the reason mine are clocked to push slightly over the needed 300 per nuke.

[frosty owl]

I went the extra mile to keep even the extractors on the "good power grid", which has a flat power draw, so I preferred keeping the overflow less "spread out"

[crystal charm]

doesn't 250% on one extractor = 300?

[frosty owl]

Yes, that's what I said

[crystal charm]

that's a lot of slugs

[frosty owl]

250% > 150%

[crystal charm]

so you're going over not just by a bit, but by 120m3

sending 420m3 to a 300pm required building

just to cover buggy pipes?

[cinder silo]

And slightly overclocked nukes.

[frosty owl]

Not quite
The fourth extractor of each block is split between all 3 others and also clocked at 5%

Better pic

[crystal charm]

so, on average, how many extractors per nuke plant do you have?

also, got a screenshot of your layout from high up?

[frosty owl]

1.333.. (4 every 3)
I'd have preferred 7 every 6 or less, but simmetry and layout and whatnot...

[frosty owl]

Like this?

[crystal charm]

looks like 4 every six nukes from the screen shot

or am i too tired

wait, i'm too tired, i see, 4 per 3

wait, how does that work, are you filling a mk2 pipe and splitting it into 2

[frosty owl]

The purple pipe is overflow being priority-merged with the 300/min pipes (MK2 for safety ofc). Priority goes to the 300/min side ofc

Those are sloppy VIP junctions though, not quite "complete" ones

[crystal charm]

with 36 nukes, you'd be using what, like 100+ power shards?

[frosty owl]

108, yes

[crystal charm]

but in theory, i could do 3 extractors per nuke, no shards, 100% efficiency on all, and should be fine

360m3 pm, gives me a bit of excess to help with server lag/pipe flow bullshit etc

[frosty owl]

2.5 extractors. So more like 5 extractors at 100% every 2 generators

[crystal charm]

yeah i did that, 5 extractors per 2, but mk2 pipes are a big buggy, and don't like to be evenly distributed

so i'd rather change it up, have a bit of excess, and do 3 per 1

without the power shards

[frosty owl]

Honestly, 1% overproduction is plenty enough to counter that imo

[crystal charm]

hey is anyone here genuinely good at math, non game related stuff

[wind spade]

probably best in #off-topic-general or #off-topic-tech depending on topic 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

I think #off-topic-general fits best

[tropic hawk]

Depends on complexity, but I'm decent. Why?

Also, #off-topic-general

[crystal charm]

ah it's pretty much sorted, i think

so, all good

[tropic hawk]

Alright

[frosty owl]

#satisfactory message
Dunno if you got the hint, @median heath, but all mixed belts need an overflow option for really endless clog-prevention...
||||

[median heath]

Why would mixed belts not be a design discussion?

[frosty owl]

Logistics are usually discussed in-depth here

[median heath]

Just because that is the way it has always been, does not mean it is the way it needs to continually be 😉

[versed violet]

Correct me if I'm wrong: the uranium cave (near void hole) does not have any extra entrances in the ceiling, does it? Only access through the long cave driveway?

[frosty owl]

Unless U5 changed things or I'm thinking another cave... There should be 2 entrances, one through a waterfall and another through a longer tunnel

[versed violet]

"long tunnel" is an accurate description

[boreal cypress]

No Waterfall

just one very long tunnel which have a spiral and the entrance near void hole

[versed violet]

the entrance near void hole is nearby waterfal, if thats what you meant

[boreal cypress]

afaik there is no uranium cave with a ceiling entrance

[versed violet]

Yeah, swamp waterfall has 2 side entrances.

[cinder silo]

Longer tunnel, on my map that's a definite since my network gets the uranium from below 😄

[versed violet]

I was hoping the tunnel one had some shortcuts, so I don't have to drag a mile long cable

Nvm, it looks the void hole side entrance tunnel is not that long.
I can proceed with Survey-Identify-Neutralize-Keep[points] (S.I.N.K.) Project

[solid crystal]

I know it's not the biggest factory in the world, but I am revamping my starter base with better miners and belts...this will be more of a factory complex since I have access to iron, copper, limestone and quartz, but not close to water. So no wet concrete, no pure recipes. Most of the output will be sent on to my steel factory (with steel rotors either coming back to make the smart plate, or the reinforced iron plate shipping out).

[wind spade]

copper rotors > normal rotors > steel rotors

[median heath]

Agree.

[solid crystal]

I was trying to not make any screws. lol

[wind spade]

screws are fine

[solid crystal]

10-4, just don't make any extra. Got it. I already have an ISC full of em, so I certainly don't need to store anymore.

[elfin cove]

When you plan on building a factory that uses every water based recipe

[woven elbow]

hey

i have a problem about liquids

inputs and outputs are equal each other but still input material is not enough

[cinder silo]

Mk2 pipes?

[burnt wraith]

headlift?

[cinder silo]

They can be very finnicky.

[median heath]

Loading bug 🙃

Pick any of the above reasons for why you don't do fluids in exacting amounts.

[woven elbow]

loading bug?

[cinder silo]

Some fluid tends to vanish from a loop (internal buffer I think) upon loading the game, it can correct if you have a slight overproduction but exacting closed loops fold up over time iirc.

[woven elbow]

thanks

[regal oriole]

Quick question pls correct me if im wromg but is it more evicient to transport caned fluids than using the fluid freigthcarts?!

[median heath]

Equivalent.

If you are recycling the cans you need 2 Freights.
So that is 2 cars for 3200.
2 Fluid cars is also 3200.

If you are NOT recycling the cans, then Freight is better.

[regal oriole]

Cant i Just get another train to transport the cans back

[median heath]

You can.
But then you're still at the very most equivalent with using Fluid Cars.

[regal oriole]

Aight thank's 😁

[cloud swan]

anyone has the math on how much turbofuel can be produced with only the 4 west nodes?

[elfin cove]

It's due to the extractors there productions swings

[sullen perch]

With overclock about 4000

[cinder silo]

2 pure & 2 normal, that should be 1800 oil at max = 4000 turbo fuel if you use the classic recipe (burns more sulphur less oil)

888 fuel gens for that!

[sullen perch]

3200 each coal and sulphur

225 refineries, 50 blender, 125 assembler

[cloud swan]

I can probably take advantage of other recipes like alternate diluted packaged fuel to wield more fuel

[median heath]

This site was the subject of my Turbofuel vs. Fuel reddit post.
So yes, the exact amounts are available.

[cloud swan]

when did you post it?

[median heath]

On reddit? Long time ago. Brought the link here like last week for a comparison question that came up. Will grab it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/qw01o7/fuel_vs_turbo_fuel_complete_mw_comparison/

[cloud swan]

so use the turbo blend fuel got it now time to organize whats the most efficient way of using those nodes

[wind spade]

not using turbofuel is best 🤔

(since best is subjective anyway)

[cloud swan]

best would be least oil->most fuel

[wind spade]

only for people that are limited by oil 🤷‍♂️

[cloud swan]

isnt everything limited in teh game? you dont have unlimited nodes

[wind spade]

well there's a concept of local resources 🤷‍♂️

and yes, you have limited nodes, but some people are left with 5000 oil and 100 sulfur for their turbofuel and some people are left with 100 oil and 5000 sulfur. Those will have different preferences on what recipes to use

[cloud swan]

good point

btw is there a setting on the satisfactory calculator where I put the input and it'll give me the max output of a selected item?

[wind spade]

there's one on

[cloud swan]

oh nice

[soft scarab]

Looks like SCIM

[solid crystal]

Omega was right, it was Satisfactory Calculator

[ashen mantle]

Is using electrode circuit boards to completely localize production at a petrol factory worth the extra resources?

Or should I use Caterium circuit boards and just ship plastic over

[wind spade]

that's up to you to decide 😉

[ashen mantle]

Fair enough lol

I think I'm gonna ship plastic over and use caterium, since I now have so much of it for use and plenty more capability I can expand to

Might put a circuit board factory on top of my caterium refinery, pic in #screenshots

Or I could just put it next door, and stack a computer factory on top too

Ship rubber in, since I'm already going to be shipping in plastic to the caterium factory, hell I can put them in the same station

Plastic goes to circuit board production, rubber goes to computer factory for the caterium computer alt

And if I can get silica there I can even have a high speed connector factory

And then with all the resources there I just need an AI limiter and can build supercomputers

This is big brain time

This is going to use a lot more plastic than I initially anticipated

[wind spade]

with oil tripling recipes it's not that bad

that's like 500ish oil

[ashen mantle]

Yeah, I'm not concerned about the oil it's using, I have plenty of plastic and rubber, it's just transporting it all that'll be a pain

[wind spade]

build it near oil 🤷‍♂️

[ashen mantle]

I'm gonna build it next to my quickwire factory because it's easier to move ~1000 oil products than to move 4600 quickwire

I can probably throw it all on a 4 car train and have it fit

[wind spade]

quickwire is always easiest to make onsite

same as screws and wire

[ashen mantle]

Tbf this factory was built with the intention of fueling supercomputer production in the empty building next door

[wind spade]

centralising production of those means tons of unneeded transportation

[ashen mantle]

So consider it on site already, just in a different building

[wind spade]

I usually don't pre-build like that, unless I know exactly how much I need

[ashen mantle]

Yeah, I knew I could utilize the max of it nearby without much issue though

It's only a single node worth

The factory is built on a caterium node and takes copper from a node nearby

[median heath]

||Wait, you build?||

[wind spade]

||same principle applies in other factory games 🤷‍♂️ ||

[median heath]

||There are no other factory games.||

[ashen mantle]

||There is only satisfactory||

[median heath]

[ashen mantle]

Realizing I definitely need to upgrade my nuclear power plant before I can build this

Currently only have about 1800MW to spare

[median heath]

2.2 GW?
Smol

[ashen mantle]

Most of my grid is built on 10 nuclear power plants and some fuel gens

I haven't finished bringing online the next 20 nuclear power plants

[median heath]

Fair.

[ashen mantle]

Though I have all the fuel production there

I just haven't set up cooling

I procrastinated it because I had plenty of overhead, I no longer have that overhead

[median heath]

I have coal setups that make more though 🤷‍♂️
And not because "me build big coal". Just... steel outposts have extra resources, so why not add free power to the grid?

[ashen mantle]

Yeah, I use coal plants as glorified AWESOME sinks

[median heath]

Like the Outpost 2 I posted on Reddit. 100 EIBs, 200 Pipes, 200 Beams per minute - extra coal amounts to 5.4 GW

[ashen mantle]

I also have 60 fuel gens that turn on and off at random times slurping up the excess to keep my delicate little rubber/plastic setup from clogging

Buffered by a ton of batteries

[median heath]

I haven't built a seriouspy battery since they desynced geothermal.

[ashen mantle]

That 1800W overhead is assuming zero of those fuel gens are on, worst case scenario

[median heath]

Why is your grid so unstable?

[ashen mantle]

The grid is very stable, it's just the surge overhead on top that's unstable

[median heath]

Same question. Why?

[ashen mantle]

Because I was incredibly lazy building that area and I have yet to go repair it

I have contemplated just chopping it off of the grid but it's not hurting anything

[median heath]

FICSIT REMINDS ALL EMPLOYEES THAT "EFFICIENCY FIRST" DOES NOT HAVE A CAVEAT FOR "EXCEPT WHEN FEELING LAZY".

[ashen mantle]

Yeah yeah

It was a bandaid solution that became a permanent solution

[median heath]

ADA is disappointed in you.

[ashen mantle]

I swear, it's my next project after I finish this supercomputer factory

Mostly because that entire factory is probably just gonna get deleted ahead of the spire coast update

It needs to be rebuilt anyways

It was made before I had a lot of the alt recipes I do now

Plus there's no power modularity or expandability

I like having all my factories capable of doing a rolling shutdown that clears all the conveyor belts and turns off all the machines, my petrol refinery is the only exception to this now

Everything else has been replaced or retrofitted whenever I also needed to incorporate alt recipes

Or just because the factory was ugly or in the wrong place

[feral valve]

@ashen mantle one of the best ways to get a small inexhaustible amount of power is geothermal power. if you have nuclear you should be able to build those

[brave isle]

Is there like a meta train layout that hits every node

[median heath]

That sounds... horrible.

[brave isle]

Not every node wrong wording

[median heath]

"Meta train layout"

[brave isle]

I like trains

Leave me alone there satisfying

And efficent

[median heath]

Whoa. I'm not saying trains are bad or you should not like them.

[brave isle]

It would basically be a few loops to diffrent parts of the map all going to the main base

[median heath]

I'm saying a meta train layout would be the way. Which sounds horrible.

Build YOUR world. Not someone else's.

[brave isle]

I guess that’s true

I wasn’t gonna just copy and paste im just wondering where they should sort of go

[median heath]

That's going to be different for people.
Because we can all look at the same map and have different ideas on how to accomplish such a task.

[glad vigil]

Meta train layout would be a big pile of belts

And no train because it consumes power and belts don’t

[median heath]

The cleanest setup for that I can think of involves trucks.

Simple train loop that goes through every biome making 1 stop. Trucks bring resources from every node in the biome to this stop. Train stations take ores and delivers fuel.

[ashen mantle]

It only generates a few hundred MW though

And they're in the middle of nowhere, not worth it imo

[solid crystal]

I posted a "natural road" map in #old-questions-and-help that you could use as a basis for your train loop. It would certainly take you through most every biome in the map.

[silver cargo]

how can i split 1 pipe into 5 equal pipes?

[oblique hollow]

you just connect one to 5

[silver cargo]

fair

[median heath]

Split.. fluid.. equally?

[silver cargo]

😔

[kindred plover]

Hey Gods of Satisfactory 😄 I've reached a point where it's time to consolidate and organize "a little bit" (just ahead of the last unlocks of Tier 8 / beginning of nuclear and the final project parts).
To that end I was wondering if anyone knew how to figure out / plan for train / long distance logistics throughput. For example, if I wanted to have a train line delivering Iron Ingots everywhere on the map it was needed - and let's say that would be 5 locations with large factories -> and each factory wanted two Mk5 belts of input of Iron Ingots -> how would I go about planning that?

I could quite easily set up several locations that made tons of Iron Ingots, but let's say for one train -> how many stops would it be able to do at a throughput of 1560/m? How would I know how many carts to fill and dump? Or how would I go about planning that to understand how many trains and/or train lines I would need to account for?

Is there math or some "known meta" for throughput to use here?

[kindred plover]

To make it as equal as possible you can use valves to regulate each split

[median heath]

First thing to know is that a single train car is incapable of providing 1560/min.

If you want the equations on car throughput I can get them. But you do need to know "route time" to solve them.

[oblique hollow]

if you want multiple locations, dedicate either entire freight cars to each stop or entire trains.

having one freight car empty on multiple stops is not as simple

[feral valve]

@ashen mantle umm
yeah, they don't provide as much as a fully used uranium node but it is free and quicker to set up. enough to get you going till you hit fuel generators on nuclear

[kindred plover]

This is all an example of course, but logically maybe an "Iron Train" that travels exactly 1500m between stops would need to dump two carts at stop #1, three carts at stop #2, then refill carts at maybe stop 3 and 4, dump in a similar fashion and repeat in a loop around the map or something, right?

[ashen mantle]

All I need is to bite the bullet and just run cooling to all the plants I already have

[median heath]

Trains do as you tell them.. so if you want it to make those kinds of stops, it will do that.

[kindred plover]

I'm just wondering how to even begin planning for it, then build it, fail miserably and adjust it until it works somehow

[kindred plover]

yeah but I'm looking to understand how I get predictable outputs from the train

ballpark

[median heath]

Beginning is just putting stations where you want them.
Then timing routes.
Then you can know how many cars you need.

[kindred plover]

ok so there's a formula once you know the timing?

[median heath]

Yes, I wrote it. Lol.

Ballpark is usually 1200-1400 though.

Less if route is shorter.

[kindred plover]

per cart?

[median heath]

Yes.

[kindred plover]

ok that's great information

[ashen mantle]

Just don't expect 1560 like I made the mistake of doing

[median heath]

Fewer trains with more cars and longer routes = Max theoretical throughput.

[ashen mantle]

I just go off of 780 per car as a personal limit

[kindred plover]

😄 ok cool I'll be back in 50 hours of train track building

[median heath]

More trains = Less through
Shorter trains = Less through
Shorter routes = Less through

[feral valve]

all i'm saying is that it can be lifesaving. currently i have on my map a fuel gen setup for 80k MW and i can still cut the gens from the rest of the grid and my trains/lights/tubes will continue working thanks to the geothermal energy. so it's still worthwile getting them

[ashen mantle]

So, don't build a railyard like I did

[median heath]

Oof. You can reliably push them to 1200 unless your route is walking distance.

[kindred plover]

Actually that's a great tip for power management

end game

[median heath]

Power management tip: Nuclear.
End of tip. 😂

[feral valve]

i started a new map so i can build with segragated power grids

[ashen mantle]

Tbf most of that is from when I built a sorting yard with <250m runs and 32 single car trains

[ashen mantle]

^

[ashen mantle]

And yes, I know this is impractical and stupid, I wanted to do it for fun

[median heath]

WHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYY
OH GOD WHYYYY 😭😭😭

[feral valve]

you seem to forget that there is some work involved till nuclear

[median heath]

#BiomassTillNuclear

[ashen mantle]

Power management tip: Use coal till you get nuclear, than throw it all into steel production

[kindred plover]

Please, you'll make me cry

[ashen mantle]

It was fun and it looks sick. I was trying to build it like a harbor port

[kindred plover]

I mean you can get 20k mw from just a single oil node to keep you going. Bit boring to build all the generators but

[ashen mantle]

16 item portals that go to a partner station halfway across the map, I just pretend a ship goes between them

[median heath]

T0-2: Biomass/Solid
T3-4: Biocoal
T5-6: Liquid BF

#BiomassTillNuclear

[ashen mantle]

Each 'dock' has a train that goes between it and the warehouse, the warehouse offloads it, resorts it, and offloads it back into another set of trains, that take it to one of two platforms to load it onto 12 car or 4 car trains

[kindred plover]

Just out of curiosity do people still use turbofuel? I guess if you do then you don't plan to do nuclear at all?

[ashen mantle]

Turbofuel is garbage imo

I just use normal fuel

[kindred plover]

yeah me too but as intermediate for nuclear

if I was going to not use nuclear, ever, probably I'd go with turbo

and sixteen quadrillion generators

[ashen mantle]

I would use turbo fuel if sulfur wasn't such a pain in the ass

[kindred plover]

Oil -> HOR -> Diluted Fuel is very very very much easier than turbofuel though

[ashen mantle]

I have plenty of coal, I have plenty of fuel, I have space and the will, sulfur is just very far away and mostly used for sulfuric acid

[ashen mantle]

^

[kindred plover]

if you do it with 120 generators you have a good number of polymer and fuel left over to make some rubber and/or plastic from the same 600 oil too. (+ the ~20k mw)

[cinder silo]

Turbo fuel with 888 generators really chewed up the worlds sulphur, Glad I went nuclear in the end.

[ashen mantle]

Yeah, sulfur is too rare and painful to waste on turbofuel

[kindred plover]

Thats why you start northern forest, the only thing further than 250m is Bauxite and Nitrogen 😄

anyway, I got 50km of railroad to build, see you in 2023

[ashen mantle]

Have fun

I built 85km last week for the red dunes

Route to, from, express route, a web network at the dunes, etc.

[kindred plover]

a what network 😄

web network? of rail?

pm me a screenshot

[kindred plover]

Yeah my plan is long distance express and "local" lines separated for throughput

[ashen mantle]

Connections to six stations that each connect to a ton of nodes

6240 items/min per station

8 car long trains, one to each station

Routes back to major station on the express route that operates a 24 car train

Which takes it to the port that I mentioned earlier

[kindred plover]

jeeeeeeez that's a lot

[ashen mantle]

Lots of ore

From there it gets sorted out to respective factories

Or a massive sink building, depending on what it is

Limestone goes to the sink right now, since I don't really have a functioning concrete factory yet

Just small on-site places right now

[median heath]

Higher throughput potential will be achieved if you use trucks for local and trains for express.
Have the train doing the express drop the fuel off for the trucks so you don't have to worry about it. Trucks will refuel whenever the drop off at the train center then go back to get more.

[ashen mantle]

Trucks are cringe

Factory carts are meta

[median heath]

False.

Explorers are "meta" atm.

[ashen mantle]

[median heath]

Not that anyone outside of me even uses truck stations given the massive train fetish everyone seems to have 🤷‍♂️

[ashen mantle]

Factory carts need no fuel

Very cheap

[median heath]

You're meme-ing when I am trying to give him genuine advice for what he's building.

[ashen mantle]

Sorry

[kindred plover]

Trucks are cool, but it's very hard to reliably push throughput towards 1000+ in my experience

I use them as a "I don't wanna build a conveyor that long" kind of thing

3+ is so hard to space out properly because they do tend to bug a little when you're not watching

[median heath]

????

[kindred plover]

so you get 100% throughput from the first two then three, four etc always starts waiting in line and causes pileups

[median heath]

Trucks, the things that can 100% to 1560/min which train cars CANNOT...

[kindred plover]

well one car cannot but one train very easily can do much more than that

[median heath]

No shit 🙃

But you're saying trucks can't do 1000

[kindred plover]

1000*

well the efficiency per truck goes down is all I'm saying

unless the distance is FAR and the path is amazing

[median heath]

Sounds like you're unnecessarily adding more trucks to a route.

[wind spade]

What kind of efficiency are you talking about?

[kindred plover]

truck stops, fills, goes, stops, empties, goes repeat

I get maybe 650 per truck

on a "perfect" truck

[wind spade]

Yeah, but that doesn't answer my question

[median heath]

How the fuck are you doing trucks?

[kindred plover]

as soon as you add lets say a third truck, then you get less/m per truck as they start waiting in line etc

[median heath]

Stop adding more for no reason...

[kindred plover]

I do a 5 wide freeway with two lanes and right hand drive :p

well one truck won't give me more than 650 ish

[median heath]

If you have 1 truck on a route and it's getting only 650, either the route is long enough to warrant +1 truck (meaning it is several MINUTES long), or you're using only 1 belt and pushing 650 into the station.

If you're saying 650 because that's what the station UI says...

[kindred plover]

yeah station UI 😄

no it has 1560 into the coal station and two trucks delivering coal

they're delivering about 1100/min according to UI

[median heath]

Puts 1560 into station.
Sees station continually being fully emptied.

"Gosh, I'm only moving 650..."

[kindred plover]

it's not completely emptying from two trucks

there's 1560 out of the other end with a buffer but it's never filling

[wind spade]

then you need more trucks 🤷‍♂️

[kindred plover]

yeah but then the throughput PER TRUCK lowers because they start to mess around

[median heath]

1. Use Explorers.
2. When they dock, they tag all stacks tgay are not actively being filled and pull only those. So anything filling while docked will remain.

[wind spade]

how do you measure throughput per truck?

[kindred plover]

how many trucks are transporting coal -> how much coal is coming out at the other end

divide coal at other end by number of trucks

[median heath]

It's not a comparison in terms of truck vs. train car.
It's more accurately truck station vs. freight platform.

One can do 1560, the other cannot.

[wind spade]

also how is that a relevant metric by any means

[kindred plover]

ok then I suppose we agree

[median heath]

That was why I suggested them.

Trucks for local input because less infrastructure to setup.
Trains for high-volume, long range movement.

[kindred plover]

So Sevrahn is saying : you can reliably get 1200/m per car from a train.
There's not really such math with trucks. Ignore the fact that these numbers are wack, I'm trying to make an example with easy math:
Two trucks may haul 1000/m together (so 500/m per truck) but three trucks will probably not do 1500 - so you can't really reliably know how much throughput a truck adds.

I do agree completely that 1560 into a truck station will make you able to get 1560 out of another truck station, 1:1 making them more efficient than a freight station.
But a truck is less consistent in efficiency than a train car, that's all I'm trying to say.

[kindred plover]

Yeah we agree completely

[median heath]

Aye. The per-car train math is more accurately stated as "per-platform". So that is my bad.

[kindred plover]

Bari here and the insane(ly cool) web train network he described, I use trucks for all that

[wind spade]

sure, but then it turns into "trucks are not reliable", which is true 🤷‍♂️ but also completely different from "trucks can't do more than 1000", what you posted at the start.

[median heath]

Using trucks in concert with trains is a great method and solves the "but you have to FUEL them" shit that everyone bitches about.

[kindred plover]

yeah my bad there just had a very specific example where conditions were pretty good but due to trucks I couldn't make them optimal

how was fueling trucks ever an issue, they run on literally anything

well I guess pre update 5 it kinda sucked when the trucks didn't plan return trip fuel

[wind spade]

I would like it more if they just filled their fuel tank to max

[kindred plover]

I guess it's due to being able to plan fuel distribution if you have an INSANE truck / storage hub

since you only get 780 fuel into a station then you'll want to minimize how much each truck takes so the belt gets more time to keep up

it's the only way I can rationalize it from "just fill up completely" (because it would even out over time either way technically)

once they make a round trip they'll only have space for a round trip of fuel left so

[wind spade]

yeah but if something weird happens they won't run out of fuel

and you would actually use the amount of fuel needed for the track, not some "calculated amount of fuel"

which would reward you for building nice truck roads

[median heath]

People complain 🤷‍♂️

Also when I do it this way I don't calculate fuel.
Front car of train is dedicated to it and full AF. I don't use a buffer on that platform. It fills the station's fuel buffer and the platform itself will hold more (not having it flowing for 27.08s isn't going to magically make all the fuel in the truck station disappear).

After a couple trips all stations and platforms are full, so this full-AF freight car just carries max fuel and tops them off as it goes around.
Excess production gets routed to overflow all the way back at the fuel plant.

Unless your goal is to make a station use 780 fuel/min, I don't see anyone actually consuming that much.

Especially when you switch to batteries.

[solid crystal]

before someone makes the switch to batteries, couldn't you always just add a gas station somewhere along the way and have a second fuel station that is mid-route. The only thing the trucks pick up there is fuel, which they don't even need to stop for. That would provide a top off of fuel if someone was really worried about it.

[wind spade]

I think trucks can only pick up fuel from one station

[soft scarab]

Trucks refuel at any station with their fuel in it

[solid crystal]

and trucks start the refueling process as they approach the station, not when they stop at it.

[median heath]

If your route is that long, train may be more viable 🤷‍♂️

[solid crystal]

and if you haven't unlocked trains yet?

[median heath]

Odd to have a logistics line so long you need a refuel station prior to the tutorial imo 🤷‍♂️

[remote flame]

100 fuel is a pretty serious trek, the western oil fields from the south east plains is only 40 fuel round trip in a truck. Early game that's a long trip in itself

[ashen mantle]

Okay is 13.125 supercomputers a minute a bit overkill? I'm realizing the only use i have for them other than construction is in building assembly director systems, which I definitely don't need 13.125 a minute of

[still trout]

s i n k

[ashen mantle]

Should I just offload the resources to something else or should I just say screw it and make the mother of all supercomputer factories?

[median heath]

Compared to what?

[still trout]

nah idk more the better

[ashen mantle]

Just in general, I don't think anything in this world could utilize that many supercomputers

[median heath]

I make 45/min 🤷‍♂️

[ashen mantle]

Oh, okay, then 13.125 is fine lol

[median heath]

😁

[ashen mantle]

Wondering if that means I can balance it with 26.25 adaptive control units per minute

[still trout]

bruh

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts...

[ashen mantle]

I want to automate everything

My goal in satisfactory is to never have to play satisfactory ever again

[median heath]

Even items that have no purpose outside of being made into other items?

[ashen mantle]

Yep, if nothing else I can sink it

[median heath]

Can't be done until 1.0 when we actually have all the items...

[ashen mantle]

Getting a head start

[wind spade]

how many SC per minute do you need for building?

[ashen mantle]

Idk, I can always AFK overnight if I need more

And pray that my trains don't break

[wind spade]

I don't like that approach 🤷‍♂️

SF is not idle game

[ashen mantle]

I can wait while building or doing other things

I've already built all the miners I need for this map (As of right now), I've built all the nuclear power I'll need for the time being

It's mostly just gonna go to particle accelerators whenever I get around to waste reprocessing and to programmable splitters

[wind spade]

producing an item has two different purposes:

• for usage in building
• for sinking

So I'd recommend just figuring out roughly how much you need for building and then build that many (and overflow to sink)

[ashen mantle]

The main reason I went for 13.125 specifically is that it perfectly evens out to buildings and the quickwire i have present, but I can do some math and see how I can balance quickwire for supercomputers with quickwire for adaptive control units

[ashen mantle]

I think this might be what I end up going for, not ideal because I now need to get silica over here, but eh, it's been overdue

6 assembly director systems per minute, and 3.375 supercomputers per minute for anything else

All on the same quickwire limits

[native crow]

Oh. 3 supercomputers. I read that as 3000 sc!

[proven prawn]

Looks nice ,besides the fact they are getting rid of beacons and completely redoing nuclear rod production lines, fun times ahead, i cant wait to redo nuclear rod production lines...again

[wind spade]

not true really

[wind spade]

#satisfactory message

[oblique hollow]

#satisfactory message
this is the current state

[proven prawn]

Beacon the item: lives on for "now", but only for fuel unit alt, so players have time to change it out and based on Snutt previous live streams and that he already stated that most of the existing recipes are changing and that Snutt said even more recently yes to the "change it out" part, definitely seems to strongly indicate that their is still more changes to the recipes going forward.

[proven prawn]

I would be inclined to believe you may at best be partly right for now, but I was basing my opinion on the last live stream and that Mark was looking at how the recipes were changing, and partly being that only the alt for fuel rods might not be changing yet, but very possible to change at some point in the future? Doesn't appear to be a definite yes or no on that one.

[wind spade]

I mean Snutt said that just now, so 🤷‍♂️

Beacon the buildable - dies
Beacon the item: lives on for now, but only for fuel unit alt, so players have time to change it out

[proven prawn]

right "time to change it out", so the question is change it out to what and in what way? like the item remains as a temporarly place holder for alt rod production only, seems kind of vague.

[fringe pawn]

Beacons never did make a great deal of sense in any of their recipes, nor were they ever particularly amusing. So I don't think they'll be missed in that regard.

[lapis jay]

What will happen to the ones spreaded through the world? Will just disappear?

[wind spade]

converted to markers

[proven prawn]

Wait he did clarify, nuclear rod production alt is changing in the future, just not for u6 #satisfactory message, so yep beacons are going away in the future, thats all i wanted to know

so its best to not invest to much into the alt nuclear rod production lines sense that is changing in the future it looks like, thats what i thought was going to happen hmmm

[lapis jay]

Yea i guessed that but I meant the physical beacon

[oblique hollow]

gone

simply removed

a marker on the map replaces them. the beacon objects placed in the world vanish

[burnt wraith]

say goodbye to thonk beep beep beep

[north cloak]

does anybody have a diagram for 4 to 5 splitting?

[sullen perch]

Credit to u/Crixomix on Reddit

[north cloak]

sheesh that looks like a mess but thank you

[sullen perch]

Balancers are a mess, one reason I always use a manifold

[frosty owl]

TLDR: Balancing hell

[north cloak]

hahaha

[frosty owl]

Balancers can be a mess 😉

[north cloak]

I finally figured out 1 to 5 so I could do 1 to 15 easily enough

"I am just a simple pioneer trying to make it in an impossibly small world"

[sullen perch]

I have yet to find a situation where balancers are better for me

[frosty owl]

N to X is quite cumbersome whenever either N or X aren't "1"...

[frosty owl]

Define "better"

[sullen perch]

or 3

[north cloak]

haha I like balancing for asthetics of moving resources and quick start up times on stacked processes

[sullen perch]

Have intrinsic upsides that outweigh the downsides

[frosty owl]

Which is balancing in a nutshell, really 😆

[north cloak]

right

[frosty owl]

Define intrinsic upsides...

||without falling into personal preferences ||

[wind spade]

why ask for a balancer then? 😛

oh nvm

was different person

[sullen perch]

I don't use them

[frosty owl]

I mean, I'm fine with you just saying what are the upsides and downsides for you, but trying to portay that as everyone's preference sounds out of place to me 😅

[wind spade]

manifolds ftw 😛

[sullen perch]

I didn't say one was better, just which I like to use

[frosty owl]

You said you didn't know how they could be better
I asked you to define "better"

[cedar mica]

So if I understand that right, ammo and scanner, no longer needs beacon?

[sullen perch]

easier to set up and use, fit better in builds, less structures, less building time and headache

Nothing against them, I just don't see any point to using them for my factories

[proven prawn]

yes and later on nothing is going to require beacons, which means my alt for fuel rod production lines isn't safe in the long term, which i like the thought of

though hopefully even for fuel units it doesn't change to much, like they either take out the beacons all together for it or replace it with another existing item that isn't too complex

[sullen perch]

or make a new item to replace them

[north cloak]

can you explain a manifold?

not sure what that means

[proven prawn]

its basically overflow, you build a row of machines in a line for example, use splitters for each one, allow items to overflow from each one to the next

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[proven prawn]

so basically all you have to do is allow input to roughly match production capacity, its also technically a more compact way to build as balancers always take up more space

[frosty owl]

Breaking it down by points (and trying to guess your preferences), can balancers be...

1. Easier to set up: no

2. Easier to use: if they avoid long manifold fill times that annoy you for reasons, then yes; else no ||other than lower nuclear radiation, thus more ease of movement around beltwork maybe?||

3. Fit better in builds: too much personal preference to give a good answer. I prefer balancer-style looks over manifold/straight-line looks 🤷‍♂️ whatever fits your aesthetic

4. Less structure: no, other than with specific ratios (eg: recipe requiring 60/min) or sushi-load-balancing (steep increase in complexity)

5. Less building time: same as point (1)

6. Less headache: this can be an interesting point, imo, but generally I'd say no. While manifolds can be very straight-forward, simple balancers have the advantage of familiarizing you more with each machine's input. I can't find a way to word this properly, but I guess what I'm trying to say is: people who have throughput issues with manifolds due to too little care/thought put into building them, could benefit in trying load-balancing setups as they "force" one to run all the necessary numbers to keep things efficient
   Edit: missed a reply for @sullen perch

[north cloak]

oh dear not sure how to do that when I have to have at minimum 4 outputs

[proven prawn]

so technically manifolds is a more compact way to build factories basically, you also can bypass most complex types of math as you only have to match input rates to overall consumption rates as manifold is the overflow method

[wind spade]

you merge all into one and then manifold it

[north cloak]

I can't too many resources per minute

[frosty owl]

Assume any reference to merging to be "within throughput limits" unless overflow management is specified