math-and-meta

[median heath]

150 will overload the 20 side and then it will automatically balance.

[mental rover]

im trying to make two copper nodes into 480/20 so I can have a total of 500

that will work still right

[median heath]

It always has.

[mental rover]

alright ty ty

[wicked tinsel]

as long as no branch has more than what belt can handle, it always works

[mental rover]

ooo this is gonna be a chore. I gotta put those two lines into 12 smelters

I think if I split the 480, and send it to either side (i have two rows of 6 smelters all facing inwards)

then split the 20 and merge the two lines, i should be good

[plush wyvern]

anyone know how much of each component i should be producing? roughly

[twilit fulcrum]

Huh? Just make what you need? Theres literal objectives

[vapid gorge]

Since early on you will have to rebuild your factories over and over, and your needs will constantly change, it's not a bad idea with iron to have 1 node for each basic part. Do this with copper as well and however much steel you can do with 1/4 beams 3/4 pipes.

Create large buffers between each part so you'll produce thousands and when you new and more complex parts to build you can use the buffers to do new feeds to progress rather than completely redoing your set up

[plush wyvern]

sounds good!

[vapid gorge]

Oh and when you get to Encased Beams I highly recomend you hunt for the alt recipe that takes pipes instead of beams. Saves you tons of steel and means you can almost cut beams from your needs. Oh and hunt for the Solid Steel alt recipe. +50% steel by adding 1 extra process. It's very good.

[plush wyvern]

im 150 hours into the game btw

trying to make the """""perfect""""""""""" factory setup

[vapid gorge]

It's hard to say how far that is since everyone does everything differently XD Ahh ok cleared to tier 8?

[plush wyvern]

yep!

so my dumb plan is calculate how much materials would be required to build one of every building in the game per minuet

excluding special buildings and architectural buildings

[vapid gorge]

Using the satisfactory planner for it?

[plush wyvern]

yep!

[vapid gorge]

Coooool well the visualization should give you a solid set of numbers of what you need then 🙂

[plush wyvern]

well so its everything

getting the number need now

[vapid gorge]

using this one right? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[plush wyvern]

yep!

[vapid gorge]

yeeee, yeah it's pretty solid.

[plush wyvern]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=TKqlzQUvjC2eXUdmOp3x

this is what would be required to build every single building

once every minuet

[mental rover]

so i have up to 480 belts unlocked, and I have 500 items to transport. currently they are on a 410/90 split

how should I get those 500 items into a 4 way split

[forest blade]

are you transporting with trains or trucks?

[mental rover]

belts

like they are on belts rn

[empty meadow]

oh my god

[mental rover]

yeah lol its annoying

[empty meadow]

lmao

[forest blade]

put them in a double decker storage and use the 2 outputs

[mental rover]

then split

ok ty ty

[forest blade]

each line goes into their own input and then the 2 outputs each can do max belt speed

[mental rover]

also daisy chain mod is a freaking lifesaver

[empty meadow]

i prefer base game man

[vapid gorge]

There are some reaaaaallllly good quality of life mods

[forest blade]

how often do they break when there's an update?

[mental rover]

i've always been one for modding.

[forest blade]

and what's the turn around time for them to fix it?

[mental rover]

I have not played long enough for an update actually

er if there has been one they have not broken from it

i havent experienced any problems

[empty meadow]

have you seen lets game it outs video on it @mental rover

[mental rover]

not on modding no

[vapid gorge]

depends on the mod and the update. Really big updates will break everything for for a while like U5 but other than that rarely in my exp

[empty meadow]

he didn't make a modding video he made his awesome machine thingy print out like 1000 coupons and had a big clusterfuck of conveyers feeding into it and he broke the game it was pretty good

[vapid gorge]

Almost all the mods were back up in 2 weeks including the major ones after U5. Most were up in less than a week. Smart! is still having a few issues because they made some major changes but smart! is pure QOL so it doesn't break a game by having it then not having it.

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[mental rover]

you really don't have to dog on people for using mods or the mods themselves, after all it does not affect you and your gameplay in the SLIGHTEST

[vapid gorge]

He's just alergic to mods. dw bout it

[median heath]

Yes, me saying I don't like them is 100% me dogging on specific people.
I even took the time to @ each and every person who uses them....

Or maybe you're projecting and getting defensive for no reason at my merely mentioning my own opinion 🤷‍♂️

😮

[mental rover]

chill lmao seems like you're kinda the pissed one

[median heath]

Says the man using caps 🙃

[mental rover]

it was one word...

[median heath]

Moving on...

[mental rover]

AlsO aSsUmInG mY gEndEr? hIgHlY iNnAppRopRiate

lmao

[oblique hollow]

can confirm Sev bulli me in DMs because of moddies :c

[forest blade]

mods, trucks, and train signals call sev out of slumber

[noble timber]

And killing doggo's

[median heath]

[minor sluice]

🥓

[unkempt escarp]

omg with the light systems, the barriers, the architectures and the big screens, all the possibilities we can do now for the factories. I did well to take over the game
and the update of the trains which allows to change the direction from the inside ❤️ ❤️
i like it

[sinful rover]

malware, don't click

[mental rover]

is it worth it to try and load balance 27 assemblers or should I just run them on overflow

[wind spade]

overflow is pretty much always worth

[mental rover]

im so freaking sad

because I have 1000 wire being produced

and I need 1012.5

[versed violet]

Iron wire, exactly 1 constructor!

[mental rover]

true but I can just un-underclock a smelter and start to use the full power of a power shard

im not using any extra resources

besides power I think

yeah just by un-underclocking i am making 1035 now

[mental rover]

if i have 4 lines of 270, and up to 480 lines unlocked, how can I split those four lines into 3 even lines? pls help

[cedar mica]

Split one in 3, then merge into the other 3

[stray ledge]

To make a 100% output Heavy Modular Frame Manufacturer, I need 403.77 Iron Ingot 🥲

How is that possible without using 56% of my nearby iron ?!

[oblique hollow]

Its not, gotta use that iron

Frames be expensive

[stray ledge]

I'm gonna have to cut it to 50%, so that I can build The Train to grab more

[austere vector]

do i need pumps if the pipes are on flat ground?

or going at a down angle?

[hushed badger]

going down def no

going flat maybe

[austere vector]

k

[hushed badger]

i think

[austere vector]

that will probably save me some resources

thanks

[fierce ruin]

good luck with the balancing tho :p

[pastel aurora]

bro i dont know what im doing wrong with my pipes.... they are not entering my nuclear power plant

[soft scarab]

You’ve got enough extractors & pumps in the right places? Could also be a floor hole bug

[pastel aurora]

i got one extractor.. thats probably the problem

one pump

here let me sc

[soft scarab]

That pump does nothing

[pastel aurora]

why?

[soft scarab]

Pumps allow fluids to travel vertically. The pipe isn’t going vertically anywhere after that pump

The vertical distance provided by a pump is the head lift

Extractors only provide 10meters of head lift so you usually need a pump shortly after the extractor, and every 20 or 50 vertical meters afterwards (depending on mk1 or 2 pumps)

[pastel aurora]

so that better?

[soft scarab]

No lmao check the fluid flow in your pipes

[pastel aurora]

the fluid flow keeps going up and down between 200-400

[soft scarab]

Each reactor uses 300

[pastel aurora]

wait how do i even measure the meters?

[soft scarab]

I use 4m walls

[pastel aurora]

so every 2 4m walls i need to put one?

[soft scarab]

If your pipe goes more than 2 4m walls above the water level, you need a pump

If you’re using mk2 pumps you need another one every 10 walls

12* sorry brain fart

[pastel aurora]

whats a water level lmao.

[soft scarab]

Are you trolling me?

[pastel aurora]

no

[soft scarab]

The place where you get the water from

[pastel aurora]

thats a water extractor... isnt it?

[soft scarab]

I’m shocked you got to nuclear without figuring out fluids lmao

Yes the water extractor is at water level

[cold owl]

hint: hold left alt and click left mouse button while pointing at something

exact measurments

[pastel aurora]

I just placed stuff down and hoped it worked

[soft scarab]

Lmao

[pastel aurora]

getting oil to my base was a pain in my ass

[soft scarab]

I can only imagine how many pumps you put on

[pastel aurora]

yeah i lost a shizzle ton of resources then..

so i would start by putting a pump at the start of the water level?

nope it made like barely any water go into the pipe.

[soft scarab]

It’s probably backwards

[soft scarab]

It can go wherever your pipe starts going upwards (and make sure it’s pointing the right way)

[pastel aurora]

how do i tell the blue arrow is pointed forwards

[soft scarab]

The arrows should go the direction you want the water to go..

[pastel aurora]

yeah i did that

[soft scarab]

Sorry I gotta go, good luck lol

[pastel aurora]

yet it makes the water decrease in the pipes

ight cya mayne

[austere vector]

do different fuels in the explorer affect speed?

[frosty owl]

No, just how long each fuel unit lasts

[timber mirage]

Oh, that's an interesting query to include in my spreadsheet

Duration if each fuel source per valid burner

[frosty owl]

If you need it, @timber mirage, the infos are aviable on the wiki

[weak plinth]

Soo.. I'm having some pipe problems too.. I want to block some pipes by turning off pipeline pumps, but whatever I do it just doesnt stop flowing when I turn it off

[pearl yacht]

what's the best super computer recipe?

[median heath]

Pumps don't do anything with flow other than act as a one-way valve.

So powering them or not wouldn't affect what you want at all because that's literally not what pumps do.

[pearl yacht]

is oc supercomputer any good

[median heath]

It's simpler setup but more expensive.

[weak plinth]

They are supposed to reset headlift. But they dont. I have the pipes going up after them and it just keeps flowing with supposedly zero headlift..

It's probably the whole water-tower "feature"

[median heath]

That's probably because you're having a moment where you're thinking about pipes like belts.
Individually.

Instead of remembering they are not belts and work as an entire network. So headlift from one spot affects the others.

Water-tower, yes.

[weak plinth]

yeah no shit bro

[median heath]

👍

[weak plinth]

Quoting the wiki: "While the Pumps are unpowered, head lift is reset to 0. "

I know how pipes work, dont worry. I've probably got more pipes than belts these days

[timber mirage]

That's where I've been pulling most of my base data from

Created my own factory planner in the spreadsheet as its main function

I found one made by someone else but didn't like how it worked. So I made my own 😅

[weak plinth]

So is there any way to make a (compact) pipe switch?

[median heath]

Why would you need to?

And off the top of my head the only 100% way to do it would be have a packager/unpackager directly in sequence.
Cut the power to the unpacker and you're golden.

[weak plinth]

because they took away power generator self-regulation..

[median heath]

And...?

Unless your goal in life is to use 100% of all resources on the map...
You have more than enough to just tap another node. 🤷‍♂️

[weak plinth]

And they now drink all the fuel I'd want to use for plastic/rubber

[weak plinth]

funnily enough, that is exactly my goal, and I'm already processing ALL the oil there is...

[median heath]

Fair.

In which case packagers will be your only method I can think of.

Can sandwich them laterally and it doesn't take up too much space, pretty small building.

[weak plinth]

yeah.. There's no way I'm doing that either... Not at this scale..

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

[weak plinth]

I was pretty sure unpowered pumps had worked before. I'm definitely not going to fit in 960 packagers just for this.

[median heath]

You have 960 different junctions to cut off?

[weak plinth]

no, but one packager only does 60/min

[median heath]

Overclocking exists.

[weak plinth]

sure dude 🥲

[median heath]

It does, so not sure what you're getting at.

[weak plinth]

I'm out of space already, so how does zero packagers sound?

Also btw it would be 1150, I forgot that they changed the rates

[median heath]

👍

[weak plinth]

on a related note, I apparently just invented a new type of flow rate limiter, lol.

apparently 600+0=300? 🤣

[weak plinth]

ok, looks like I might be on the right track for developing a pipe switch. So far I can get it to turn off with a random delay and run around 590/min when on.

[near lion]

What is the best turbofuel recipe without blender? I got tangled up in all those alternatives...

[weak plinth]

the one that takes fuel as input

assuming you are using diluted fuel at least

[near lion]

So it would be
Heavy Oil Residue -> Diluted Fuel -> Turbofuel

[weak plinth]

yep

Takes a lot of coal and sulfur though.

[near lion]

I dont have blender so I cant use Diluted Fuel

I will have to go with Diluted Packaged Fuel

[long hull]

Hi, Does anyone know a good early game iron setup for 180 iron per minute? Thanks

[wintry bramble]

hmm theres a normal iron deposit near the starting location in the meadows. 2-3 deposits. with power crystals you could get it to 180 possibly

as far as anywhere else i havent explored that much from it

[long hull]

Ah sorry, I said it incorectly

I meant that I have 180 iron per minute availible and if there is a 'Best' amount of certain components to make with it

[median heath]

No.

What you make is... what you, personally need.
There is no "everyone would do best if they made this much of things per minute early".

[cold owl]

Maybe check upcoming milestones and choose something that seems to have a longer lead time or heavy quantities needed.

[long hull]

Ah Ok, I'll look into it. Thanks!

[high lantern]

how do you calculate load balancing

[hushed badger]

maths.

what is it you need to balance

[high lantern]

nothing just need to know the params

[noble timber]

What do you mean how?

[hushed badger]

you either split in 2 or 3 and merge either 2 or 3

or if you use low tier belts then you can split more complicated

[high lantern]

ah

[high lantern]

like if i was 20 of that item/s and i would like to load balance what math would i use

[hushed badger]

balance to what?

you need the input and the desired output

[cold owl]

Stated simplest it’s using division and addition to determine how many items go to each spot.

No special formulas

[high lantern]

ok

[wind spade]

usually don't, just do manifold

[cold owl]

Very application specific

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[pastel aurora]

why is the water not entering the nuclear power plant?

[oblique hollow]

Seems like it is entering to me

[cold owl]

anyone know if the SCIM author lurks in this discord?

my grandson exposed a bug and wanted me to "Fix" whatever he borked but it wasn't him it was SCIM

[fierce cypress]

you can try pinging/dm'ing them or there might even be a scim discord server iirc

@Anthor (EDSM/SCIM)#2628

[cold owl]

ok i have too many discords already so i will try a DM

probably not something that comes up much but they will probably want to know about it.

[frosty owl]

There's 2 ways imo

1. Fraction balancing: you have a source belt with a specific item/min on it (eg: 150/min) and divide it until you obtain the output you desired. Eg: split it 2 to get 75-75; split in 3 to get 50-50-50; combine the outputs to ha e different result like... To get 30-120 (1/5 and 4/5) you split in 6 (split in 2 then in 3), merge 1/6 back with the input and merge the remaining outputs as desired (each output would have 1/5). And so on...

2. Rate limiting: you start with an undefined amount (as long as it's more than what you would need it's fine) and obtain the required throughput by combining a series of belts with the right mk. For instance, to output 180/min from a MK3 belt with 200+ items/min, you can use a smart splitter and a merger: set the smart splitter to output on 2 sides and overflow on the third. The two sides will have MK1 and mk2 outputs and merge together to output 180/min exactly to the merger.

Combining the two methods, one could balance for (eg) 150/min by "smart splitting" into 60-120-overflow, then splitting the 60 in half again and finally merging the output so you get (60+30) and (Overflow+30)

There's a "max throughput" belt bug that can complicate things, but these are the basics... Clear enough? ^^

[wheat tundra]

I am producing 20 U waste/m. My fertile machine is producing 25/min fertile U. My Plut. machine is consuming 20/min of fertile, and 5/min of waste. Going to try to set up the algebra for this

Note: This is at 100% clock for the machines

If Plutonium clock is P, and Fertile clock is F, then I get 5p + 25f = 20 as first equation

Fertile is 100/m, so fertile production is 100F. So I want 100F - 20P to be 0, I think

Then F=.20P, and 5P + 5P = 20; P=2, and F=.4. But that means overclocking expensive plutonium production?

I think my Plutonium machine numbers were based on 20% OC, not 100

So rather than P=2, maybe it's .4

That seems correct for the moment, as the fertile machine, and plutonium machine are consuming a total of 20 u waste / min

[wind spade]

You can also build more instead of overclocking

[fierce ruin]

Or underlock and build even more

[wheat tundra]

I redid my math, and no OC is needed. I had not gotten correct 100% OC numbers

So now it's 25 U Waste -> 100 Non fertile U; 100 Non fertile U + 25 U Waste -> 30 Plut. Pell.

So then the math is: 25F + 25P = 20; 100F - 100P = 0

And then it's simple. F=P, and P=20/50=.4

So I OC both machines at 40%

Maybe they set it up that way on purpose to make it simpler, not sure

At 40%, the two machines together, consume 20 U Waste, which is correct

[wind spade]

not correct

ah sorry nvm you're using the alt

then yeah it's correct

[wicked dock]

does anyone know how to split a 480 line into 8 equal lines?

[wind spade]

2->4->8 or manifold

--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

[wicked dock]

thankyou

[dense cave]

Yeah, I tried doing load balancing and its simply not worth it

overtime the manifold works

Only time I did a load balancing, is when pulling both outputs from doublestack containers

in that case it will prioritize the bottom one, so I did a simple balancing to make sure it feeds two different productions equaly

[minor sluice]

if input => output I think they output at the same rate from what I can tell. Don't think I've ever used it with 1 in 2 out though, since I never really had a use case for that type of setup

[wind spade]

they output at the same rate no matter what's input compared to output

if you have only 50% input, you'll get 50% output, no matter if you use a manifold or a balancer

[minor sluice]

talking about the industrial storage containers

[wind spade]

ah sorry I missed that part of the conversation

also industrial containers have random priority, doesn't always have to be the bottom one

[minor sluice]

I typically only use those if I'm going 2 inputs, so I don't come across the wonky priority issues

[wind spade]

apart from buffers at train stations or as a storage for building materials, I wouldn't use them otherwise. Splitting 1:2/merging 2:1 can already be done with splitters and mergers and there's pretty much never need to balance 2:2 (or any other number really)

[minor sluice]

yeah, I'm currently using them as train off/on buffer

only place I'm planning to use > 780 belts for a mod (from buffer to train), though needs testing to see if that'll suffer from item loss bug or not (I can deal with < advertised speed. Really they're just to speed-load the cargo platforms)

[wind spade]

Satisfactory Tools UI-UX changes

[near imp]

im really proud of this balancer/manifold/whatever that takes one input and outputs one line of exactly 5 per minute and one line with whats left

[dense cave]

why do you need to limit something to 5 per minute?

[median heath]

Not as much about "need" as it is "can" for some people.

[dense cave]

Conveyor porn

[median heath]

[near imp]

One line produces 185 and i need to take those 5 and shove it somewhere else to balance it

[wind spade]

just set it as overflow

[versed violet]

Will putting down 300 miners + 250 awesome sinks affect my fps considerably?

[wind spade]

I'd say depends on pc 😛

[versed violet]

Ryzen 3600, current utilization 47% (think I'm cpu limited now)

[limpid wraith]

My 10K Intel handles this game like a champ, it's insane how optimized this game is

I have the 10900K, i just call it 10K for short

[limpid wraith]

that looks amazeballs

[chrome pike]

What clock % do i need so silica constuctors take 20/m Raw quartz? 22.5/m is 100% and miner produces 60/m so yeah

[pure stone]

Honestly I’d say just play with it, put some quartz in at a random clock speed and see where it is, then adjust it accordingly

[hushed badger]

cant you go click on the quartz/min and change it

go highlight the quartz/min and then replace with 20/min

[weak plinth]

"rule of three" is the magic word. 37.5 / 22.5 * 20 = 33.333

[echo pollen]

Whenever you have a question like this, just take a hundred (for%) divide it by the current rate, and multiply it by the desired rate

100/22,5=4,4444
4,4444*20=88,888%

So make then 88,89 and you are propably fine

Also press n ingame and you can use that search window as a calculator

[runic anvil]

Just divide the desired production by the normal production... 20/22.5 = 0.8888

[chrome pike]

I just saw the pings, yall are really helpfull, did not know this game had such good community

[heady vine]

what's a nice way to automate rifle cartridge production?

[tough stratus]

would it be an accurate assessment that when you first start using oil, plastic is more important than rubber, but rubber starts to gain more prominence as alts are unlocked?

[runic anvil]

Yep but still produce more rubber where possible since you'll have plenty of plastic being produced with the normal recipes

[heady vine]

plastic is crutional for building manufacturers
but i found that both of them aren't very much used
i have just 2 milestones locked in tier 8 and i never automated their usage, yet

[runic anvil]

Because you will most likely change your whole setup once you unlock the oil alts

I find them both to be used alot but it depends if you are looking to automate everything in the game (other than space elevator parts)

[tough stratus]

yeah this is just an initial setup to start unlocking stuff

[heady vine]

2 refineries for each will do fine
convert residual into coke and sink it or burn in coal gens

[runic anvil]

If you have some alt recipes residue can be really useful during that stage for fuel generator power or just extra plastic and rubber

[hazy saffron]

I think I need to start using some of those iron ingots

also do y'all think it would be good to keep track of raw resources (ore and oil) if they don't leave the refinement areas?

[heady vine]

guys who use batteries for most of their vehicles - how many batteries per minute you produce?

[hazy saffron]

I coul have worded that better; they don't leave the extraction areas. The refineries are present near the nodes.

[vapid gorge]

depends on if you're doing a world master plan?

[hazy saffron]

?

[vapid gorge]

Well what is it you're wanting to keep track of exactly and why do you think you might need to? Belt speeds with x item per minute? or future logistic use in other factories?

[hazy saffron]

the spreadsheet is entirely to make sure I don't surpass production rates

[vapid gorge]

Ok so basically yo'ure doing this to keep track of what you're making and making sure you have things avaialbe in a location?

[hazy saffron]

location is irrelevant

[vapid gorge]

Ahh ok. That's kinda what I mean with 'world plan'. If you don't care about location and not doing HUGE projects resources won't tend to be a limiting factor to what yo ucan do

[hazy saffron]

🤔

I don't think you understand the purpose of the spreadsheet or my question

[vapid gorge]

Quite possibly. Feels like there's something lost in communication

So you've got a spreadsheet of the ingots you're producing but that's not in one area, thats just your whole game?

[hazy saffron]

the spreadsheet is basically this

but with different values as it's excluding all the old factory that'll be torn down soon™️

My caterium refinement is stright down the cliff from the node; would it be valuable to track how much caterium I'm pulling out of the ground (adds another entry and unique sheet) or should I just leave raw resources out because they're all refined at the location they're picked up at?

[vapid gorge]

Ok I think we just come at record keeping in a very different way then. I make modular and tailored factory units with productions built to go some place specific. But I'm doing permanent structures. You look like you're keeping tract of base infrastructure and production?

[hazy saffron]

My goal is factories that each handle a unique item

[vapid gorge]

So yeah I'd say keep doing it. It's a good way to keep track of what yo ucan do in the future

[hazy saffron]

I feel like this is more scalable as if I somehow manage to break the 3120 iron ingots/minute barrier in consumption I can just build another Iron refinery near some other iron nodes and a distribution post somewhere to combine the outputs

[vapid gorge]

The way I went was working backwards. I made a number of plans, broke it down into 1 or 2 product outputs, then tried matching the resources to zones with the resources I needed

[vapid gorge]

Very reasonable.

[hazy saffron]

if any of those become a problem; it'll likely be plastic first tbh

[vapid gorge]

Have you played around with recycled plastic/ recycled rubber processes?

[hazy saffron]

I don't have the alt recipes i believe

but right now plastic is a byproduct of fuel refinement for my generators

[vapid gorge]

Ah so a cool trick that is later game for it. - base oil recipes you need like 3 crude to 2 plastic/rubber. Alt recipes cranks it to like ... 2 crude to 9?

[hazy saffron]

I've put zero effort into obtaining alt recipes

I do have pure copper and iron tho

[vapid gorge]

They ARE game changes

[hazy saffron]

those are fun lol

[left zenith]

recycled plastic/rubber is stupidly good

combined with diluted fuel

[hazy saffron]

I actually do have recycled rubber

[vapid gorge]

The trick is to have 1. Heavy Oil Residu 2.Blended diluted fuel 3. Recycled Plastic 4. Recycled Rubber

Those 4 recipes feed off each other

[hazy saffron]

I'll look into it when I get all the recipes

for now the "should I include raw resources" thing is the main concern

[left zenith]

by using those two recipes i've over doubled my plastic production, tripled rubber, and tripled fuel

[vapid gorge]

But yeah previous question - keep track of things like that. Organised numbers are almost always helpful unless you really go for way too many details which it doesn't look like

[hazy saffron]

this is already getting absurd

[vapid gorge]

lol... nah that's very reasonable

I think I have 12 tabs on my spreadsheet

[hazy saffron]

it would be nice if I could, you know, put the sheets in folders

sort them by process "stage"

raw ores would be stage one, ingots would be stage 2, wires would be stage 3, anything from there on would be the highest input stage +1

or just alphabetically

[vapid gorge]

Yeah the way I sort mine are that each tab is a hub production that will have it dedicated to one page

What program are you using?

[left zenith]

I started a satisfactory spreadsheet to plan out my oil processing

[hazy saffron]

Google Sheets

[left zenith]

when i told my friends that i made a spreadsheet for a game the looked at me like i was insane

[vapid gorge]

Maybe try OpenOfficeCalc? It's free and I've had issues with google sheets

[hazy saffron]

if it can have a spreadsheet it does have a spreadsheet

literally every game with numbers I've spent more than like 2 hours in has had me do some sort of dumb math with it

Excel would probably work better for this purpose

but I'll be six feet under before I use excel

[vapid gorge]

Very reasonable. OpenCalc is just open source Excel. Pretty much all the commands are the same

[hazy saffron]

I pay for 1 TB onedrive storage which comes with Microsoft 365

[vapid gorge]

Video editing?

[hazy saffron]

my computer is backed up to the cloud on a daily basis

[vapid gorge]

Profesional reasons or mega nerd? 🙂

[hazy saffron]

neither

[vapid gorge]

Now I'm curious

[hazy saffron]

If you don't have any form of backup for your data you're really screwing up

[left zenith]

okay so just nerd

minus the mega

[vapid gorge]

Ok nerd yeah. I've just mirrored the important stuff.

[hazy saffron]

one of my HDDs dies I have an onsite backup for that, if my apartment burns down onedrive is my offsite backup

I'm gonna post a fun image in #off-topic-tech

[left zenith]

nvm it's definitely mega nerd

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/unspottable-punch-ragdoll-robot-oneofus-gif-18030679

oh.. oh no you're a nerd XD

[vapid gorge]

This is part of what I was talking about. I made a similar thing to you but instead of keeping tabs for products made I zoned the Resource per minute of each thing and broke them down into areas.

Then I took into account my hub plans and listed the import exports needed so I could get an idea of the train lines I'd have to build

[hazy saffron]

ah

yeah, our organization methods are quite different

[vapid gorge]

A big focus for me is making things as locally as possible and moving as few items as I have to

[hazy saffron]

the production and usage columns on my master list are vlookup formulas pointed towards the other sheets

[vapid gorge]

Connected to production lines you've made?

[hazy saffron]

both are seperate tables that the vlookups point to

All I have to do is move "Total" down and add another entry for production/consumption

[vapid gorge]

Ah you're really breaking things down.

To me the building number in an area is less important to the functionality of the process in and of itself but towards the lay out of the structure so they're kept independant from it

[hazy saffron]

building number is just for ez math

instead of pulling out a calculator and doing 48 * 37.5 the output columns are calculated off that

[left zenith]

this is my spreadsheet so far

[hazy saffron]

though the right table should say input 🤔

[vapid gorge]

You're breaking it down by building as well?

[vapid gorge]

typos woo!

[left zenith]

yeah, helps to know how many refineries i'll need

[hazy saffron]

I wouldn't say it's really a typo

I got the first table and vlookups working then just copied and pasted to the right while editing the vlookup ranges accordingly

[vapid gorge]

Ah just not done a final edit

[hazy saffron]

indirect() is my favorite formula

[left zenith]

what does that do?

[hazy saffron]

allows a cell reference from a string

adding another item is straight up just a copy/paste thing for most of it

while changing the name of the table and adding the name to the master list

[vapid gorge]

I keep refineries in 'chunks' so I'll know if I group up 6 refs leading to an area then I've already done the numbers there and can work it. It's mor important for me to know the number of logistic lines going where

With that it lists logistics and the expected number of buildings I'll need for a spot for the design

Combination floor plan, logistics and part plan.

[hazy saffron]

ah

yeah, planning for construction isn't something I do

[left zenith]

same

[hazy saffron]

as is evident by the fact that one of my generator plants is half done because I ran out of computers lmao

[vapid gorge]

I'm making BIG efforst on a e s t h e t i c s XD

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/932761153703149659/940046686519189554/272878950_283610647171244_4129288072876743726_n.jpg

[hazy saffron]

i posted that fun screenshot

nice

your buildings seem to be a little bent though

[vapid gorge]

Yeah... I dediced that right angles weren't for me anymore

AND WHO NEEDS 60TB

[hazy saffron]

lol fair enough

I'll post some context that explains a lot there in a moment

this is why I need the spreadsheet

I did some math wrong and thought I could only have X fuel generators when I could have considerably more than X

I don't remember how much I calculated before

but I can have 150 fed off this refinery

[vapid gorge]

150 fed?

[hazy saffron]

like, stocked with fuel

the refinery is making 1800 m3/minute

a fuel generator uses 12

[vapid gorge]

Ah right yeah

[hazy saffron]

each of the three blocks will be four rows of 12 with a one capped on the end

[wheat saddle]

turns out no computer likes placing 1k foundations at ONCE

[vapid gorge]

I did a ridiculous TF station. Took way too many fuel gens and space. It was the reason I started using Refined power. More custom jobs\

[vapid gorge]

using SCIM?

[mental rover]

or smart!

[wheat saddle]

nope, Smart

[vapid gorge]

hmm thats only like 32x32. Pretty sure I've done bigger with only minor stuttering

Area you've built up a lot already?

[wheat saddle]

wat? I just did 100x100 bruh

[vapid gorge]

ah so 10k

[wheat saddle]

ehh no prepping modded save...

[vapid gorge]

10k is a bit different to 1k

[wheat saddle]

true

kinda funny my pc can handle 8k, 10k NO

[vapid gorge]

comps like certain numbers!

also depends partially on how long you've had your chrome tabs open for XD

[wheat saddle]

using Firefox, and wdym comp?

[vapid gorge]

Firefox tends to use more and more ram as well I think? Comp = computer. They have their little limits they like

[hazy saffron]

top of the line PC here

it hates autosaving with a passion

there's a 10 or so second freeze when it autosaves

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-bored-unsurprised-futurama-fry-gif-19739787

[hazy saffron]

lmao fair enough

[wheat saddle]

nice,

I also have nothing besides some concrete running

[neat sail]

I feel my system is fairly competent as well, but I get hitching, microstutters quite often. Do you experience this as well?
I mean in general, sorry I didn't mean to specifically quote the autosave comment.

[hazy saffron]

it depends on what's nearby

where my old factory is yeah; but there's a lot going on there

when I'm away from there the only issues are the autosave lag

[neat sail]

Interesting. I'll have to pay attention to that

Are we expected to see optimizations to reduce these stutters?

[hazy saffron]

probably

a big part of game development is improving performance

[neat sail]

True

[oblique hollow]

The hitches most often come when you enter the loading zones of chunks

[hazy saffron]

I've never seen any lag from loading new zones myself

[stuck iron]

I think Im starting to notice small stutters in my main hub area. It's fairly busy.

[vapid gorge]

Try reducing the view distance. Helps a lot when you're in a high object area

[frosty owl]

@thorn bane Funfact: sushi belts with 2 items in a 1:1 ratio can be properly split in 3 using a normal splitter.
So what happens if you (for instance) get a full belt of coal, a full belt of iron, merge those together and send the sushi to a splitter feeding two foundries (1 belt each) and another splitter that, in turn, feeds 2 foundries and another splitter.... And so on?

The foundries need to be clocked so that they consume all the incoming items (so the belt doesn't back up), but I find this quite an interesting solution

[hazy saffron]

🤔

that is an interesting solution

[frosty owl]

Very edge case, but fun to toy with Imo 😆

[vapid gorge]

Someone remind me - is there actually material loss on mk2 pipes running at max or is it due to backflow and sloshing?

[weak plinth]

from what I can tell you can get them to run full speed.

[vapid gorge]

Coooool. I know there's material loss in machienes that have fluid buffers on load but couldn't remember about pipes

[hazy saffron]

mk 2 pipes seem to work fine for where I have them

all issues I've seen have been 100% user error on my part

[frosty owl]

Load loss just affects pipe connections.

I've heard it does affect pipe-pipe connections as well, but the effect seems more random (can be a loss or a gain)

I consider the latter either a rumor or negligeable

[vapid gorge]

Wait, I thought only belts suffered belt to belt problems, not pipes?

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I was talking about the load bug

[vapid gorge]

Ahhh right right. So each actual segment of pipe. Damn I thought it was just machines.

Too bad you can't weld pipe segments together like belts

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but in the end the effect is so small that nobody other than whoever tried testing for it noticed. Since it's not always a negative, it might not impact at all

[weak plinth]

Yeah I'm gonna doubt that one too.

doesnt make much sense anyway

[oblique hollow]

Ben said that the small issues that can remove fluid also add it again (precision issues) so it mostly cancels out

The load bug is more sever as it always removes 5m3 from every connection

Mk 2 can run very well at 600, but whenever you have a manifold that doesnt run continuously, and the pipe is full, then backflow causes stutters.
Use loops to circumvent this issue

Even something as simple as a full mk 2 pipe with one junction along the way that splits off into a pipe with a valve set to 0 can influence the pipe due to sloshing.
Net loss there is around 5 flow

[hazy saffron]

interesting

continuously being "something is always drawing from the manifold" right?

[oblique hollow]

Aye

No stop and go motion

Its ok if the pipe isnt full

As the pipe volume can just buffer the incoming flow rate

[hazy saffron]

so my 25 generators on a single manifold should be fine right?

[oblique hollow]

But on full pipes its a conflict

[oblique hollow]

Thats 300 flow, should be fine with mk 2 and mk 1

Mk 1 dont seem to suffer from this issue due to their more stable nature

Mk 2 pipes are very dynamic

[hazy saffron]

I ran into some issues with it earlier where the generators at the end weren't getting any fuel

[oblique hollow]

Thats probably the loading bug, or you didnt let them all fill first

[hazy saffron]

it seems to have been solved by thowing some pumps on the end to keep the line "pressurized"

you have me kinda worried I just made the issue a little bit harder to see

[oblique hollow]

Its likely

The thing with pumps and "pressurized" lines is this: they make everything after the pump not rely on the pressure before the pump. Oh and of course prevention of back flow. Thats it. Flow entering must still be enough naturally

[hazy saffron]

so the issue has nothing to do with either of those bugs then?

[oblique hollow]

I mean.... When did you notice that they werent getting fuel. And also did you let them all fill before you turned it on?

[hazy saffron]

When I was on the other side of the map

and I noticed what should have been putting out 7500 MW was actually putting out 4550-ish

output fluctuated a lot

[oblique hollow]

Again, i need to know the setup condidition. Were they running fine before? Did you save and load inbetween?

[hazy saffron]

I had just finished building them, no saves and loads that I recall

they weren't running before because they physically did not exist yet

[oblique hollow]

And did you prefill em

Before turning em on

[hazy saffron]

I did not prefill them completely, there's some tanks between the station and the generators

uh, map might be good yes?

[oblique hollow]

... That condition you described is not a great one

All pipes and generator buffers should be filled before you turn em on

Else you experience normal manifold style delays

[hazy saffron]

ah

so when I build the other two blocks make sure to pre-fill the system?

[oblique hollow]

Yes

Always, with anything pipe related

Makes em work efficiently faster

[hazy saffron]

good to know

[oblique hollow]

Its kinda the same as with belt manifolds

Empty machines take longer to reach 100% efficiency

[hazy saffron]

fair

would it be worth it to cut off the two end caps to the manifolds (one generator each) and have fuel production be slightly greater than consumption?

or would it make no practical difference to uptime given fuel is readily available

the sushi squad is growing apparently

[frosty owl]

We should really make a good pinned message about pipes. Just a few more info then this and the basics about bugs are covered

[hazy saffron]

I would appreciate that

the train info is good (not perfect, my smooth brain still got confused with signals)

one on pipes would be excellent

[frosty owl]

||No, you haven't been around long enough and I've changed nickname quite often ||

[hazy saffron]

sad

[frosty owl]

Increasing fuel production would help filkin g the manifold faster only when the manifold is empty

[hazy saffron]

in this case i'd be decreasing consumption but pointless correction

I've jumped between overclocking three of my refineries by like 25% (each set of ten handles its own power station) or removing the end and losing 900 MW for the three blocks

I'm thinking if I'm delivering fuel to the power plants by train some slight overhead in production vs consumption would probably be a good idea

[frosty owl]

Unless you're fine with expecting the generators to starve some, some overproduction is always recommended, given the load bug
I find a nice solution in just producing ~15 or so more and send the overflow to a packager for storage/sinking. If there are multiple productions/powerplants I might overflow less from each so the total overflow is still relatively low

[ebon crater]

how do you set an overflow with pipes?

[median heath]

With a hooker.

😉

Should be images in the piping manual that is pinned.

Wait, there isn't. @oblique hollow Seems like it was left out of your manual somehow?

[oblique hollow]

there is

look harder

Page 15

[median heath]

Ah. Design you have screenshotted is... sideways to how I usually build them.

[oblique hollow]

meh, still overflow

its a top down view sort of

[median heath]

True. Not doubting it works, just that's why I missed it.

[oblique hollow]

A true pipe expert would know any pipe circuit from any angle

[median heath]

I'm the sushi manifold expert, you're the pipe guy.

[near imp]

i could, but then itd take a while for it to stabilize due to it being a long way to where the items go to

[wind spade]

pre-fill the target destination 🙂

[near imp]

true

but boring

personally the thinking that i put into my thing is more fun

[wind spade]

I'm just suggesting alternative solutions 🤷‍♂️

[near imp]

ik

the downside to my solution is the conveyor mess i made

[frigid sandal]

What the alternate recipes for increasing rubber and plastic

[left zenith]

recycled rubber/plastic, polymer resin or heavy oil residue

[wind spade]

best is alt HOR + diluted (packaged) fuel + recycled plastic+rubber

(best in terms of oil -> plastic/rubber ratio)

[left zenith]

yeah

[frigid sandal]

Is packaged better or blender for the HOR

[left zenith]

blender diluted is better

less complitated, less power, less space

[left zenith]

depending on your setup you can also make some fuel byproduct

[frigid sandal]

Alright that sound great

Tysm

[wind spade]

yeah, but that doesn't change selection of recipes needed

[left zenith]

yeah, you just change the amount of refineries n stuff

my setup is currently rubber -> diluted -> recycled plastic because I don't have heavy oil alt yet

[wicked tinsel]

isnt blender more power

blender is 75mw vs refinery + two packagers for 30+20

[left zenith]

diluted fuel is faster than packaged

100 fuel per min vs 60 fuel per min

[stuck iron]

Ya so blended diluted fuel actually uses a bit less power

[left zenith]

but either way they're both a big net + in power if you run it into fuel gens

[rare surge]

At scale, I'd say the difference is very marginal, If you go packaged recipe early, no huge benefit in upgrading when blenders unlock (unless you just want to, ofcourse)

its just over 6% more power used by packaged recipe than blender recipe for same input to output ratio.

[cold owl]

Much simplified logistics in return for a little more power.

[wind spade]

blender recipe is better in most cases, unless you don't yet have blenders 😄

[stuck iron]

Ya switching from a packed to a blended setup doesn't seem like a good use of time luckily I didn't build my fuel setup until I had blenders :)

[wind spade]

also I just love the packaged setup, it makes so nice loops of 1:1:1

[stuck iron]

It's definitely more interesting to look at

[cloud swan]

I'm setting up a 4x3 vertical grid of manufactures, what's an space efficient way to transport the items to them?

[left zenith]

lifts?

[slow thicket]

how much steel production should i be doing if i were to setup a steel factory, i've just finished coal power

id just like a recommendation'

[wind spade]

there's no way to tell really

[cold owl]

i tend to target steel at what is needed

[wind spade]

just make as much as you need at the moment

and increase production when you need more

[slow thicket]

okay

[cold owl]

some storage of beams and pipes for building but not a lot

[slow thicket]

how much area should i use

[wind spade]

same answer lol

[slow thicket]

i meant like how much will i probly need for a line

[cold owl]

basic answer is that its not something to overproduce at any point

[wind spade]

if you don't know how much steel you will produce, you also don't know how much space it will take 🤷‍♂️

[slow thicket]

ok

thanks

[hushed badger]

what's the ratio of iron:coal in steel

[wind spade]

depends on a recipe

[hushed badger]

normal

[wind spade]

1:1, see e.g. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items/steel-ingot

[hushed badger]

so ive been thinking, if i just wanna stay in the coal area then thats using half the coal i can use, but if i expand over then thats plenty of iron

need some coal spare to power tractors cuz i wanna use them

[cloud swan]

I mean the layout

[frigid sandal]

What about crude resin and blender hor and recycled plastic and rubber

[vapid gorge]

Do you have smart spliters? If so you can make all the parts go on one belt with smart splitters.

You’ll need to loop the overflow to the start of the belt and have an emergency overflow but saves a lot of logistics

[vapid gorge]

Just one belt up one side running behind the machine with multiple smart splitters then up the other side

[frigid sandal]

nvm i figured it out https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=T4k2sqGnxeMQXhoV1PQF

[frosty owl]

Argh, why do people "randomly" suggest looping willy nilly when it can cause clogging or slow downs?

Items leaving the manifold are EXCESS. Trying to force that back onto the initial belt can create a loop that slowly saturates of the wrong items, eventually clogging

If an item needs to leave the sushifold, it's to be either processed by another factory or sinked

Unless one wants to deal with convoluted priority merging

[vapid gorge]

This is why you have an overflow sink just in case 😛 You still plan out exact numbers. The loop+overflow sink is a safety valve

[fierce cypress]

its not that bad, it just takes up a bunch of space

[hazy saffron]

loop overflow to a small sorting system that leads into containers as a buffer just incase production earlier stops, have the manifold for the containers have an overflow that goes to a sink

[frosty owl]

1. It is unneeded: there is no advantage in having a loop
2. It's dangerous: you have no (simple) way to make sure that the items leaving the manifold are really the right ones. Eg: 1 item overflows less than the others (for random reasons), leading to the main belt being too full of other items AND the original feed belt to back up (since half the items merging come from the sushi belt itself)

[frosty owl]

Sure, but the possible solutions are: merge the overflow on the output belt of the machines and deal with it later
Make a DEDICATED overflow belt
Merge the overflow back with the input AND make an overflow belt
Make priority-merging or storaging shenanigans

From the simplest to the most complex imo

[vapid gorge]

Just set the splitters to the machine to overflow right? Fill up the first machine until it overflows then it fills up the next. Just a longer spin up to full speed manifold

[hazy saffron]

I assume this is within the the context of manufactureres right?

[vapid gorge]

anything with more than 1 solid item input

My assembers tend to run with enough items per min each line needs it's dedicated belt mind you

[frosty owl]

That literally what a manifold does with each splitter-machine connection

Thus, looping back is unneeded. You can even have items on the belts leading to the machines as buffer

[vapid gorge]

Yeah but I like fail safes.

[frosty owl]

I argue it adds more complexity for no practical return 🤷‍♂️

If you expect overflow even from a system that shouldn't overflow, imo I'd be more convenient to actually overflow the inputs, not loop anything and just make use of the overflow somewhere else.

No loop involved, all machines are properly fed and no items are "lost"

[hazy saffron]

The list expands

[round forum]

After many hundreds of hours of gameplay and having factories be slow due to manifolds I have tasted balancers and I am never going back

[cold owl]

There are valid usages for both

[wind spade]

in the end it doesn't matter anyway

pre-filled manifolds work instantly same as balancers

and both work with same efficiency at the end anyway

[heady vine]

it's actually a good spot, because you have plenty of water and sulfur not so far.
only problem - no caterium nearby

[heady vine]

is it the same for pipes?

[wind spade]

pipe balancers don't exist

[heady vine]

but you still can mimic balancing and manifolds...

question is - will they work equally effective?

[wind spade]

well you can't, since pipes don't work like belts, they can sloosh back, they may not split equally in junctions, etc.

pipes work more like in real life - fluid height is same across whole pipe network

[north wave]

Hello, I haven't really used trains or any vehicles for transporting materials, is there a upside to using them instead of conveyor belts long distance?

[hushed badger]

they look neater

and also i think they lag less

[north wave]

are they more efficient or just look cool?

[hushed badger]

i think they can be more efficient yes

[north wave]

hm, i'll try em out, thanks!

[hushed badger]

long belts are really ugly imo

[wind spade]

they are still limited by belts

so depends on what you mean by "move more efficient"

[hushed badger]

well you can have multiple things pulled on one track

[heady vine]

vehicles:

• consumes fuel
• need to cover path in nodes
• limited by belts, still
• can get stuck (but unstucks automatically)
• can disappear into 4th dimension with all your resources

• looks neat
• if you want to add/remove items you can do it on station, no need to change belts on the whole route
• they don't passively consume space on route - only when driving (so you can have primal nature reserved with exception of a few co2 emissions)
• generally, i think it's a way to save on belt resources, cause you need just some of on stations, while vehicles are relatively cheap

[oblique hollow]

everything is limited by belts though

[heady vine]

People mention it cause it's easy to forget that with vehicles.
And you mentioned it because it's easy to forget that belt's rule the world...

[versed violet]

Mind that truck stations have two belt outputs/inputs, and don't pause on load, so its full two belts going all the time.

[heady vine]

as an inspiration
i had truck delivering basic steel goods (beams and pipes) from lake/bay in NNW (4 coal nodes, with iron, copper and limestone) to spawn area in desert forest (one on NW, near lake)
it's about 4km afair
not the best terrain on the way, but i had 0 issues

[frosty owl]

Sushi-load-balancing in manufacturing facilities FTW

[frosty owl]

Yes, I think it's fair to make the analogy, despite there being some differences

[round forum]

WTF is sushi-load-balancing?

[frosty owl]

You know what a sushi belt is, @round forum? ^^
Also, what Tier are you at? xD

Long story short: a sushi belt is a belt on which you carry many different items (eg: the ones needed to make Uranium Cells)
And sushi-load-balancing is when you load-balance the belt without having one splitter per item (you just split one belt)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/sp1h97/sushi_loadbalancing_teaser/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[vapid gorge]

If your manifolds didn't start pumping product at max speed within a couple minutes you were building them wrong. Somehow. I'm not actually sure how you could build manifolds that didn't.

[frosty owl]

My (discontinued) nuclear fuel rods manifold would like to disagree

[vapid gorge]

The right side is the better spot for base building since everythign you need is right there. There's a node of coal on the right for steel and at worst you have to belt up more coal on the left. I managed to get to tier 8 just with that pure node though.

[vapid gorge]

Congrats, your sushi brain somehow broke manifolds 😛

[frosty owl]

50h with the machines on standby Just to prefill

[frosty owl]

Try running a simulation for a manifold of crystal oscillators for a max UFRs production in a manifold calculator or similar
Even with double the input, it's still 20h+

[vapid gorge]

I guess you don't do manifolds much now but before did you never have a production line connected to a switch? So you could turn the module on and off to allow items to fill while not churning out products? Doesn't take long

[round forum]

I have a pure oil node supplying 96 petrol coke powered coal generators that would like to disagree with you. I can send you a copy of my save file with the setup if you want.

[frosty owl]

If I had all those items on hand, I might as well just prefill the machines myself

[vapid gorge]

@frosty owl @round forum ahhh you both turned everything on at the same time XD That's why you launch multi process factories in steps. Turn on Step 1. Let fill. Then step 2 and so on

[vapid gorge]

little harder with liquids but yeah. Pre filling is also valid if you really need it. Step by step is easier though

[round forum]

I did that before I ever turned on the coal generators. I had power switches for each step.

I had power switches for the water extractors too

[vapid gorge]

So all your coke producing refineries were full but it took hours to flatten out? hmm well there are situations where lengthy manifolds requiring max speed does take a while. In those prefil like Sushi said or you could create temp buffers at joints. But Prefil would be the prefered choice I think with those

[versed violet]

if you already have all the items on single belt, in correct proportions, why split just before manufacturer? Just ram the belt right in.

[round forum]

Because the items all have different needs/minute?

[vapid gorge]

I had to have an industrial container of coke filled with coke for my TF plant. Only needed 400pm but that's because the HOR needed to go to the Blenders AND the Coke machines it all needed a bit of help getting ful.

but that was a wibbly wobbly multi dependancy system. And the one container fixed the start up

[round forum]

I'm only at t6 with mk 4 belts I had to do an injection manifold system and even then I had some things never getting enough petrol coke

[frosty owl]

1. That's an old version in which I used 3 splitters for simmetry and for show (easier to understand if each manufacturer is fed "manifold-style" individually)
2. Even if the new version uses 1 splitter per manufacturer, I'm overflowing the silica 😆

[vapid gorge]

Did you look at your crude refineries producing the HOR? I made a somewhat similar system like that and basically 100% of the issue was stuttering refineries

[round forum]

They were getting all the oil and HOR possible

[vapid gorge]

My system involved 1800 HOR making 1800 various fuel + coke

So zero hor stuttering?

from source not the coke machines

[frosty owl]

||The coke machines ||

[vapid gorge]

There IS an issue where you lose X amount of fluid from buffers on load. Might have interfered? I can't get above 93% efficiency on my station probably just because of it

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/wildlife-bear-powder-covering-gif-10476854

[round forum]

I don't have fluid buffers it goes straight from refinery set 1 to refinery set 2

[vapid gorge]

buffers include the machines themselves and possibly the pipes :\

[round forum]

Made sure those were full too

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I would have had to have a look at it at this point :\ Sounds very strange.

I'm pretty sure the load loss is a big issue with mine just because it's 180+ burners and small losses of Turbofuel are pretty significant sadly

[round forum]

I can send you a file with the relevant section

save file just be prepared to "get directions" to it

[vapid gorge]

Would it be the version before you fixed it with balancing?

[round forum]

I don't even know which files exactly have it (I think it's #6 of my world). I never fixed it fully. I just decreased the rate of the coal plants until I stopped having belt issues

[vapid gorge]

yeah sure dm me the file. I'm curious now XD

[frosty owl]

I got downvoted on Reddit for saying that the max-throughput bug doesn't affect only MK5 belts

[vapid gorge]

I've been trying to plan some major logistics and could use a break

[vapid gorge]

To be fair I only saw a few weeks ago the tests with belt to belt connection and prior to that the info getting passed aroudn was that it was a mk5 speed performance issue rather than the belt connections, and that it was actually causing the items to disapear.

[frosty owl]

:jace_palm:

[vapid gorge]

It's probably going to take a long while before the fact that it's belt to belt causing the issues and I imagine since reddit is a less interactive medium it'll take a while to work it's way through there

I can't recall who did the belt tests? Might have been @oblique notch and a couple others? Might be a good idea if one of them posted a couple screenshots and their findings there

[oblique notch]

wasn't me, but i was around. No items disapear either - just there is a hiccup on moving from one belt to another which causes a slight lag/hitch in the total throughput

any kind of buffers - the internal inventory of splitters/mergers and of course, actual machines, causes it to be reset and go away - because those buffers have no limit on the number of items they dispsense per minute. So they fill the belt right back up

prooobably you'd notice it a little if your system is 100% perfect from the moment you turn it up, but any backups at all would leave stuff in the buffers to continually be doled out and pretty much erase the situation

[vapid gorge]

Yup yup, this was more about how the idea of items disapearing is going to stick around

[idle thistle]

im going to transport as many ans oil spots together for a mega base, any tips?

[vapid gorge]

Do you have all the Alt oil recipes yet? And how good is your computer?

[celest badge]

I’ve done a lot of methods on how to get rid of heavy oil residue but I just want to hear the best way cause I can’t get it to were the system doesn’t break

[hazy saffron]

Diluted fuel or something like that?

[celest badge]

Alright cause I don’t want to do what I did in my first play through which was package it and then sink it

[hazy saffron]

Yeah, there's definitely more efficient ways to get rid of it

[idle thistle]

I have all alter recipes for fuels and turbol fuels. I am struggling which recipes set to use, do you have any suggestion. I my computer is 2080

[vapid gorge]

Are you just wanting a massive power station or making plastic nad rubber as well?

[idle thistle]

power

what does vanilla mean, origional?

[vapid gorge]

You'll want the Heavy Oil Residue alt, and the diluted Blended Fuel alt. Then you decide if you want Turbo fuel or not

You should also figure out how much oil you want to save for plastic and rubber

[vapid gorge]

yeah just base recipes

[idle thistle]

will one 780 line for plastic and rubber each be enough?

[vapid gorge]

if you're trying to make the biggest fuel power statoin with almost all oil you'll run out of plastic and rubber way before you use all the power

I'd probably save 2000 oil just for plastic/rubber even if you're doing quite small projects end game

[vapid gorge]

It's also probably easier trying to make a 50GW ~ diluted fuel station then aim for nuclear if you want big power

[idle thistle]

yea, i think the turbo feul is kinda complicate. just beacuse i found a bay with many oil spots so i start to try to make them all together

[vapid gorge]

Well if you're only going for fuel then it'll make your life easier to burn it on location. Fuel gens end up taking up a LOT of space.

[idle thistle]

I just heard some people mention theres a way by alter recipes for endless recycle, but searched through internet found few info about that, only the packaged water one, is that it? i thought its endless fuel something like that

[wind spade]

it's alternate heavy oil residue -> diluted (packaged) fuel -> recycled plastic+rubber

[vapid gorge]

It's not endless but makes it efficient.

What Greeny said. Basically use polymer resin from the HOR to make residual rubber, turn that with plastic with recycled plastic -> continue until you have what you need

[frosty owl]

I've performed a decent portion of the testing...

And then I bear the noobs' downvotes

[vapid gorge]

booooo I'll find that reddit post

[oblique hollow]

If you want to get rid of HOR, theres always the good old Petroleum Coke

[teal junco]

warning! it`s on Russian

[oblique hollow]

what is that

[teal junco]

energy statistic

[heady vine]

just bought factory cart recipe
wow
this thing doesn't need fuel
it's smol
best vehicle!

[wind spade]

can only carry one stack anyway

[left zenith]

I'm gonna use it for stuff like computer and heavy frame transport

[heady vine]

yes,
but no fuel
cheap to build many of them

now i want extra small truck station

[ebon crater]

wait till you meet the explorer

yes it needs fuel

but at least you can drive it

and its tires are coated with impossible-stick

the magical glue that allows the explorer to defy gravity

[heady vine]

what do you mean wait?

[ebon crater]

you aready got the explorer?

before the factory cart?

[heady vine]

i'm tier 8 bro
why else would i spend awesome tickets on some fancy carts?

[heady vine]

nonono
cart is SMOL
it can fit through anything
you don't really have to plan for it
it probably can climb ladders...

[ebon crater]

dang ok imprssive

[ebon crater]

some truth to that. idk if im in a factory i use jetpack/blade runers

not a factory cart

[heady vine]

well
it's not for me - it's for transporting expensive things,
like whatever you make <10/m
you don't have to run belts through factory, if you can use this cart

and thing is - there's 0 cost to using more of them (cheap to build)
so transfer rate can be increased just by adding more, without worries about supplying more fuel

impressive how many theories i created based on 1 minute experience of driving it (and logged out)

[heady vine]

well, that's neat

[ashen mantle]

So I'm decently late-game and have a shit ton of resources at my disposal, most recently though I'm planning a massive refinery that will take 1800 cubic meters per minute of oil, across three mk2 pipelines, and end up producing 800 rubber, 800 plastic, 160 turbo fuel, and some extra byproducts to sink. Before I start building I'd appreciate if someone could check over my math/resource flow, I don't expect corrections, however I'd like a sanity check if nothing else to make sure that my math checks out before I spend multiple hours building the largest single factory I've made in this game

[cold owl]

have you tried one of the calculators to check your plan?

[ashen mantle]

Oh, I didn't know those exist, let me try plugging it in to one of those, pinned messages I assume?

[cold owl]

yes

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/

is one of them and
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/
is another

both great tools

the calculator will let you plan a production based on resource input or desired output.

[ashen mantle]

Thank you! I didn't know such tools existed

I'll use those

[cold owl]

glad to help

[ashen mantle]

Hmm, it would appear my math was a bit wrong, but I assumed I'd need more crude oil, so to see that I can make do with less is nice, it does mean, however, that I should probably fix my math and plan

Does this look right? I have all the alternate recipes unlocked

Ah, wait, I can't add an image

Fair enough

[cold owl]

#screenshots and i will look

looks right to me.... the graph is using the Alts

[ashen mantle]

Okay, thank you, I appreciate the help

[cloud swan]

I have an aluminium set, which reuses the water from the scrap's production, the alumina production is considerably larger than the scraps, so I set up a packager to deal with one of the liquids, would it be better to deal with the excess of alumina or water(since the water is whats clogging the scrap production

[vapid gorge]

I am in desperate need of another set of math eyes on this. I'm trying to translate a production line from Satisfactory tools for recycled plastic/rubber.

I've laid it out as a basic floor plan in a spread sheet but my numbers aren't matching what the prod plan is saying I should be using/making. Could someone please have a look?

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=1I4ByhBB0VA7PVtcsS0R

I tried making the floor plan as clear as pos

[ebon crater]

oh no, your doing the physics for SF-

im doing the trig

we need someone to do the chemistry

[frosty owl]

Residual rubber should be 1200/min

So yeah, in the sheet you're making more than needed to compensate for the "missing" 600 rubber, naturally fuel is consumed in the process

[vapid gorge]

Ffs, XD

[frosty owl]

If it can make you feel any better: you didn't figure it out yourself, and it didn't take less than 20s

[round forum]

I need help with a 22 (technically 21.02) load balancer

[frosty owl]

'sup?

You know how to make a 1:12?

[round forum]

No….I take it it’s 1 into 3 into 3 more into 3 more?

[frosty owl]

That's 1:27 😅
1:12 is 1 in 2, 3 and 2

And, before you say it, he does know of the existence of Manifold, GreenMan ^^

[wind spade]

You could do a manifold, if you don't want to deal with weird balancers

Otherwise 1:24 and feed back 2 belts

[frosty owl]

Or 1:12, feed back one, and split in 2

[round forum]

Let's just say if you looked at my save file you'd understand why I should touch manifolds as little as possible. @vapid gorge can personally confirm this.

[wind spade]

Tho if it's 21.02 you'll end with a manifold anyway

[round forum]

Wait....fuck I have to use 2 belts for this, I don't need a 22 manifold

[frosty owl]

One could make things a lot easier by balancing for 1:16 or 18 and manifolding the rest (or fiddling with their clocks so the remaining machines can be easily split for)

[wind spade]

I wonder what could be the reason for this

[round forum]

god damnit, I have to use manifolds anyway because god has punished me for my hubris with ECIBs taking a number that can't be properly divided by the required input belt limitations

[wind spade]

It's not like using manifolds is a bad thing

[frosty owl]

It's not like using balancers is a bad thing

[wind spade]

I'm replying to the message where they seem to be annoyed by them needing manifolds 🤷

[frosty owl]

And I'm pointing out the preference that is their use
One can just like or dislike one more than the other without automatically think that one performs better than the other or silliness like that

[frosty owl]

You can make any balancing job a lot easier with some extra care in how you clock machines and how you group them
Merge smart

[wind spade]

Sure, but I asked them about the reason and didn't got an answer 🤷‍♂️

[round forum]

Massive super long belts with incorrect math at key points.

There's numerous instances of me doing this lol

[wind spade]

Ummm... are you refdering to the belt throughput loss bug?

[round forum]

I THOUGHT that was the case, but cobalt was like "no it's actually this"

"this" was math being wrong at very very very key points

[wind spade]

I'm not sure how that's related to manifolds...

But w/e I guess

[round forum]

Oh because the super long belts are for manifold setups

[frosty owl]

Depends on how you do manifolds, really

Sushi balancers can be looooooong belts

[round forum]

I'm currently experiencing a relevant "fuck I have to redo the belts for two ones of major production involving 32 constructors and a bunch of assemblers.

[wind spade]

Yeah but I mean if you had your math wrong (less buildings/smaller mk of belt/wrong clock speed), it would affect you no matter if you use manifold or balancer

[frosty owl]

I think it's fair to say one has fewer chances to not think about throughput correctly when balancing, though

[round forum]

It's just a LOOOT easier for me to fuck up when doing this with manifolds, meanwhile balancers are easy and simple for me.

[frosty owl]

Easy and simple, huh?

[wind spade]

I disagree, in both cases you need to just think about input belt being fast enough (and in case of loopback balancers - if the loopback can fit on it as well)

[round forum]

There's also no warm up time with balancers which greatly decreases the chances of me going "it'll fix itself eventually"......spoiler warning it didn't and I fucked up the math somewhere

[frosty owl]

That's true for a small example, but generally speaking, on a manifold you expect that you can merge items on whenever you want.
You don't to so with a balancer, you bring in a whole new belt
I a sense, the balancer makes the throughput calculations (around that setup) easier

[wind spade]

Oh I don't like or suggest injected manifolds.

[round forum]

I kept using injected manifolds lol

[wind spade]

I don't think they make sense, building several manifolds (one for each belt) is just way easier

[round forum]

Hell I STILL have to use one for the ECIB part of my HMF factory

[frosty owl]

Which, imo, are the middle point between manifolding and sushifolding in complexity

[wind spade]

When i talk about manifolds, I mean normal ones, not injected, sorry

[vapid gorge]

Your manifolds are fine! Just stop merging them!

[round forum]

I NEED TO for the steel pipes and ECIB part of the HMF factory

[vapid gorge]

Basically he had a bunch of lines doing the same product to similar machines

Except instead of keeping them seperate he linked one end of a line to the back end of the next. Everything just kept stuttering since more items than throughput was happening

That is your only problem @round forum XD

Just seperate them XD

[wind spade]

You don't ever need to do injected manifold. If you have N belts, do N manifolds

[frosty owl]

Or, if you really want to maximize use of belts, at least mix item kinds

[round forum]

Then there's the clusterfuck of issues I'm encounter with my current factories for the parts of HMF automation

[vapid gorge]

Just have a slightly slower hmf 🙂 or build a second hmf factory

[round forum]

I'm building one and it's going into storage for 879k or so parts

[vapid gorge]

Just so you understand you are, yourself, creating the problems you don’t like :p

[round forum]

Oh it's personal storage for stuff for me to use in the future for whatever....primarily fuel generators where I need about 2.5k.....I have over 30k now lol

[still blade]

so, i started a new save that isnt a nightmarish spaghetti. if i have a concrete production line, and the miner is getting 60 limestone per minute, and i only have one constructor, do i overclock it to 20 PPM?

[wind spade]

you can't

[still blade]

wdym?

[hushed badger]

get 2 constructors underclocked to 75%

[still blade]

ok

[hushed badger]

or just 2 constructors at 100% if you havent unlocked clocking yet

[wind spade]

you can't overclock constructor to produce exactly 20/min concrete

[wind spade]

this gives you 22.5/min

[hushed badger]

wait is it 75%?

[still blade]

you can change the ppm through the number, you click and type the number you want

[hushed badger]

might be 66.6667%

but 2 constructors underclocked is better

[wind spade]

that still won't allow you exactly 20/min

[still blade]

basically, 10 ppm with 2 const

[hushed badger]

yes

[still blade]

not the %, there's a number for ppm, you can change that manually

[wind spade]

yeah that still doesn't allow you exactly 20/min

[wind spade]

it's 66.66 repeating, which you can't do (4 decimal precision max)

[hushed badger]

yes but

close enough tbh

[wind spade]

close but not exact

[hushed badger]

it rounds it so

[wind spade]

this is math channel 😛

it doesn't round it

that's just to display nice number

[still blade]

@wind spade ill send you a screenshot of 20 ppm in the dms

[wind spade]

yeah that's 19.999995

[peak meadow]

Hi, is there any downside of using th alternate recipes? For example the cast screws alternate recipe seems better then the base recipe. But am I missing something?

[hushed badger]

alternates have their ups and downs

[weak plinth]

it depends on the recipe. They are often better in some regards but have some downside as well.

[wind spade]

there's always up and down for any alternate recipe. It's also not always "different way to make X", but just a completely different recipe

[weak plinth]

For example cast screws uses the same resources, but less machines and hence less energy

[peak meadow]

yes, so no downside basically? just less energy consumption?

[wind spade]

for example cast screws by themselves look pretty good, but as soon as you look at them in bigger picture, they are below average imo. They don't save any resources and there's much better recipe for screws (steel screws) as well as much better recipes to get rid of screws completely (stitched iron plate, caterium computer, etc.)

[peak meadow]

ho yes, probably but I just started a new game 😄

[wind spade]

yeah, they are pretty much only good early. Which in case of players who know what they are doing usually lasts just a few hours, so I don't really recommend "wasting" a hdd on cast screws

[weak plinth]

that one could be called stricly better, yes. Technically it is less versatile though because it cant be combined with another alternate recipe, 'steel rods'

[wind spade]

if you get e.g. stitched plates, it's a much better choice

[peak meadow]

I see, but I'm a slow player

[wind spade]

the disadvantage is there as well - it's alt recipe for screws which you want to get rid of 😛 (and the fact that there's a better recipe - steel screws)

I wouldn't force it, but if you get it from hdd, it may be a decent pick up. But again, I'd prioritise stuff like stitched plates

[peak meadow]

thank you for all your answers, really interesting to have some advices

[weak plinth]

it's arguable whether steel screws is better. It uses coal which has other uses. Also steel rods+ default screws is strictly better resouce-wise than that.

[wind spade]

resource-wise, sure. But if you consider power costs as well, I think steel screws are way better

[hushed badger]

iron wire + stitched plates is a nice combo

[weak plinth]

dont get me wrong, steel screws is awesome, for those recipes where it makes sense to use screws anyway.

[wind spade]

I definitely agree that there's no way to objectively compare alt recipes in a way that suits everyone, so anything that I say is just my opinion (it's up to you how much you value opinion of a player that has 30 hours ingame, but spent most of last three years doing math around the entire game).

and yeah, for resource efficient recipes, you don't need screws for anything except rotors (copper rotor ftw)

[peak meadow]

I'll keep the "get rid of screws" tips in the corner of my mind while I advance in the game

[wind spade]

fyi the reason for getting rid of screws is:
most recipes that get rid of screws use way less resources (and since resources are pretty much the only real limitation of the game, it imo makes sense to reduce resource usage where possible)

[peak meadow]

also unrelated to math but if I understand how hard drive work, it's better to wait for higher tiers before unlocking them right?

[wind spade]

not really

[ebon crater]

i've managed to eliminate screws by using heavy encased frames, and cristal computers

[wind spade]

it's actually better to get early alts asap so you can use them in early factories

[ebon crater]

nah use em whenever you get them, there are enough hard drives in the game for every single alternate, so if you ever need one, you can go out hunting

im at tier 6, and i just got caught up with all the alternate recipes

[weak plinth]

the selection you are offered is limited to things you can use already. If you unlock them later you may then get alts for stuff you've already automated. So I'd recommend using them as you find them

[peak meadow]

@wind spade @ebon crater thanks!

[peak meadow]

ok I understood this. thanks!

[ebon crater]

the wiki will also be super helpful

if your planning a factory you can check out the alternate recipes early

and there is a table comparing recource usage, space, power between alternate recipes

[peak meadow]

yeah I'm on it with a excel spreadsheet opened on the side instead of working😅

[ebon crater]

haha nice

i didnt use any spreadsheet or wiki in my early factories(everything before steel), but once i got steel, its really come in handy

[peak meadow]

it's funny because I place machines and conveyor for my job irl and the same after work currently

[ebon crater]

what do you do?

[peak meadow]

I design waste sorting plants

[ebon crater]

oh cool

[peak meadow]

the materials don't wait at the end of the conveyor irl, it makes a big mess, this is the only difference

[ebon crater]

the waste does not wait patiently in line

[peak meadow]

yeah exactly, when it's full, it's full

[ebon crater]

and the machines turn yellow randomly

imagine maintenance in satisfactory

would not be fun

[peak meadow]

also yes, but once it's designed, not my job anymore

[ebon crater]

haha

[versed violet]

I regretfully notice the Lights control panel does not allow to set all 3 color components to 0 at the same time, to obtain black or grey.

[oblique hollow]

trying to create anti-light now, are we?

[versed violet]

nah, just trying to get matching color for my black steel factory

[oblique hollow]

use slight blue and turn down the intensity

gray light doesnt exist as its just less intense white

[versed violet]

You can only have pure blue (FF) as light color 😕

Side question:
Is this square?
3 foundations x 6 walls high
It looks like its taller than wide

[forest blade]

try measuring it with a 4m foundation

[versed violet]

Measured it with beams and got 24 in both directions

[forest blade]

see if your assumption is correct

[oblique hollow]

? no you cant, you can make white with a blue tint

[versed violet]

Under-floor belts question:
How do you fit a manifold for manufacturer (4 lines) in vertical space of 2 walls? I see only 3 splitters fit.

[hushed badger]

sushi manifold

[weak saddle]

is there any reason why this isnt getting much water to it while the other coal generators are fine

[heady vine]

do isee pump that is past this one gen?

are these pipes even with water?

[weak saddle]

yeah

[wind spade]

why do you have a pump there?

[weak saddle]

and yes there is a pump further down

[wind spade]

pumps are only needed for going uphill

[weak saddle]

oh my bad sorry

so if i remove them will it get water?

[wind spade]

not sure, but I would remove it just in case

[weak saddle]

alright thanks

[weak saddle]

no real improvement

any other ideas?

[austere vector]

whats the best fuel recipe with residue

like most efficient return productiob

production*

[weak plinth]

diluted fuel

[austere vector]

k

[weak plinth]

you're probably not pumping in enough or are limited by your pipe's max rate.

A pipe manifold like this gives the least amount of liquid to the machines at the end of it, just like with conveyor belt manifolds

How many are you trying to feed?

[weak saddle]

6 on each side

but the ones at the end are getting water for some reason

just not the front ones

[weak saddle]

well whats a better way of doing belt manifolds?

[weak plinth]

6*2 generators is 540 water per min, are you feeding in that much and are you doing so from 2 separate pipes from both ends? Because that's what you need to do here.

[weak saddle]

ill send a screenshot soon of what my production looks like

what the whole thing looks like and what the water supply looks like

so one side produces 600m3 of water and uses 366m3 of water

sometimes the ones at the front run out of water and sometimes its the back one

[weak plinth]

You're trying to push 600/min through mk1 pipes there. Those can only handle 300/min

[weak saddle]

is there a better way of making sure coal and water makes it to the back ones more efficiently?

[weak plinth]

Your extractors will never run full speed like that.

[weak saddle]

ohh, i completely forgot about how much pipes can handle

thank you, so i need to stop overclocking some of those coal generators?

[weak plinth]

Not necessarily.

You can run parallel pipes into your existing setup to increase the throughput. How far are you overclocking?

Also, cant see how exactly you connect to your generator manifolds. Straight into one end and one manifold for 6 generators?

[weak saddle]

wasnt overclocking that much

its connected like that

[weak plinth]

well at 100% you're already consuming 270/300

You can add another pipe to the far end of your extractors and connect to the far end of the generator manifold. That way you get up to 600/min to them and can overclock them as much as you want

Do that for each set of 6 generators

[weak saddle]

so the pipe at the end of this i connect that to the first water gen?

[weak plinth]

1 min, paint time

[weak saddle]

lol thanks

[weak saddle]

gotchya

hold on

also im thinking about transporting all my materials to one base and then making stuff there instead of bringing stuff around all the map to make computers and stuff. is it worth to do it?