math-and-meta

[forest blade]

5 playthroughs through what tier?

[upbeat flame]

The problem will be, if you plan your plan that far ahead, you'll only be concerned with the logistics at first, until you spend time again expending the necessary resources to make progress. Either way, you will need time.
Especially if there are still resources for tickets.

But if you only want to build, then unlock the necessary options with "cheats" or the savegame planner.

[forest blade]

if your goal is to not make mistakes, oh boy

failure is how you learn

and getting better as you iterate your factories

this game doesnt punish you for fucking up as much as other games do

maybe with stray loot crates lying around and power going out from time to time 🙃

[alpine snow]

Hey 😄
I'm working on a personal Excel spreadsheet to help me keep track of all the things I build and mine in my world. Everything's been going swimmingly so far until I got to this point:

I'm currently working on integrating power consumption into my lists and make it scalable to over- and underclocking. For constructions buildings and for power generators, that's more or less straight-forward since I was able to find the formulas for scaling the power consumption to the overclock percentage for those just fine but I'm having a hard time finding such a formula for the miners and pumps. As far as I understand, they use a different formula to calculate their rate.

Can anyone help?

[wind spade]

miners use same as production buildings

[alpine snow]

thanks!

[wind spade]

or rather

250% clocked miner produces at 250% rate, but eats 433% of power

different scaling exists only on generators, where it's like 250% gen produces 202% of power while eating 202% of fuel

both formulas are on wiki

[alpine snow]

In the wiki article for Overclocking, you can find these handy formulas for over- and underclocking. I've applied these to miners and pumps and they seem to be consistent with the numbers in-game

thanks for your help!

I've been looking for ages xD

[vapid gorge]

Much easier to just unlock everything and be a bit messy then rebuild things. Your needs will change and you might change your mind on what you want to do as well

[spice depot]

Is there an equation I can use to calculate how many trucks or whatever to get the right amount of items p/min? I know there's the equation with trains but is there one with trucks or tractors

[soft scarab]

There’s no load/unload freeze for truck stations so you don’t need to calculate it as much

[spice depot]

so like I guess I should just place the thinks receiving my resources and then get the right amount of trucks

[soft scarab]

Just time the route, calculate how many stacks you’re generating in that time, and make sure you have vehicles with that many slots available

Usually 1 vehicle is probably enough

Unless it’s a really long route or you have tons of stuff being produced

[wind spade]

not if you don't know the loop time and if you know that then it's pretty obvious

[cedar mica]

Dont truck stations, give you the throughput numbers now? Granted, they are not 100%, as it dont take waiting or ghosting into account, but its good enough

[upper escarp]

Sigh. 360 into a bunch of 15's

[wind spade]

manifold is your friend 🙂

[spice depot]

okay nuclear power question. if a manufacturer makes 0.4 uranium fuel rods/min can I make 2 power plants that work efficiently off of 1 manufacturer? or do I still need to make 2 cause it takes so long?

[wind spade]

yes you can have two plants per manufacturer

[spice depot]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-sorprendido-shaquille-oneal-gif-23222312

thanks @wind spade

[modern wren]

quick question. Does changing clock speed just a little, changes the numbers on the thousandth place, and the rounding is only visual?

[wind spade]

there's only 4 decimal places

the production per minute is calculated from the 4 decimal place clock speed

the displayed production is rounded, but it's only visual

[modern wren]

thanks

[cold owl]

With a little balance work and OC I have 4 operating on one manufacturer.

Took quite a while but they even built a reserve of rods.

Do note I might be using an alt recipe. Can’t remember and not near my computer.

[acoustic escarp]

first wall down

[forest blade]

@acoustic escarp did u see my picture yesterday?

[acoustic escarp]

which one

[forest blade]

your roof openings

[acoustic escarp]

oh like on the different buildings have them face each other

[forest blade]

ya

[acoustic escarp]

ill try it in a bit working on a new building rn

[forest blade]

then they are all oriented the same way roof wise

haha I saw looks good

[acoustic escarp]

tahnks

[alpine snow]

Does anyone know the formula for calculating power usage for water pumps? They don't seem to use the same one

*the same one as construction buildings

[versed violet]

Am I evil for powering my miners with this?

[upper escarp]

Yes.

[versed violet]

I am also lazy, and hey, it works, even with night mode on.
Needed some lights on walkway to coal miners, so why not use the lamps as power poles?

[oblique hollow]

they should

[alpine snow]

Yeah, I’m just an idiot and used the wrong formula xD

[frosty owl]

This makes me think that Fertile Uranium is still not well balanced

Imo, it would make sense making use of that recipe if it allowed one to increase their max possible points/min by more than 5% by sacrificing uranium to make more efficient plutoniun power (and dealing with the waste).
But as it stands, the increase in points is a mere ~3%...
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/r2uzd1/globally_optimal_solutions_for_space_elevator/hveesjf?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

[hushed badger]

gonna use them 3 pure nodes and the water in the lake for coal powerplant but idk the ratios and that, how many water extractors and coal generators do i need

[median heath]

This is dependent on what miner mk you use, what you clock the miners to, what you clock the generators to, and what you clock the extractors to.

Wiki page on Coal Gen will be your biggest help.

[hushed badger]

mk1 miners not overclocking

but ill check the wiki

[frigid storm]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Coal_Generator

[hushed badger]

so its 15 coal/min and i can get 360/min

so i can run 24 generators

and i need 9 water extractors

do i have that right?

[median heath]

Yes

[hushed badger]

ight cool ty

[median heath]

Provided your belts can handle that much.

[hushed badger]

mk2 belts should be enough right?

[frigid storm]

yes

[hushed badger]

cool, gotta wait until i edited 2 hours of footage first tho

[maiden musk]

If you can understand anything tell me if this is a good reinforced iron plate factory

[median heath]

It is not.

Your belts are clipping.

[maiden musk]

I know

[rancid pecan]

Your problem is e.g.if you want screws you need rods for these rods I think you need 15 iron per min but one smelter gives you 30/min so 15 just go unused

So maybe reconstruct so all inputs and outputs are balanced

[maiden musk]

I have overclocked and underclocked

[median heath]

Imagine using screws for RIPS... 😬

[maiden musk]

I forgot to mention

I have checked,it's 100% efficient even if it doesn't seem like it since overclocking and underclocking don't show on the model

the problem is is it good

[rancid pecan]

Oh then it’s should be fine it could be better (especially better looking) but it should work

[rancid pecan]

What do you define as good

[median heath]

For now, sure.
Once you get Stitched Plates this setup is obsolete.

[rancid pecan]

If it’s 100% effective it’s good but if you want to have a big factory it’s not

[maiden musk]

This is a small factory,I'm planning to make another one

[rancid pecan]

Just as a future tip if you ever go big try to make it easy to follow otherwise you will go insane

[maiden musk]

got it

[rancid pecan]

By e.g. making areas for the different materials

[median heath]

Or mix belts and keep it simple.

You can do RIPs off a single belt instead of trying to keep it all separated.

[rancid pecan]

That’s what I meant e.g have all rods produces on one square put into one container and form the container all screws are supplied etc

[median heath]

Later there shouldn't be any screws in any RIP line you have though.

Ever.

[rancid pecan]

I don’t have That alternate recepie yet😞

[hushed badger]

still dont know what screws did to deserve this punishment

[rancid pecan]

They always screw you over

[median heath]

For RIPs it is simply a matter of resource efficiency.
Stitched wins outright.

[rancid pecan]

With their hight number per min shit so you need many converyors

[hushed badger]

fucks sake why did i audibly laugh at that

[wild forum]

It was a dad joke

dad jokes are always stupid

[maiden musk]

Why does it take so long to make solid biofuel

I've been waiting for 10 minutes and it's still not done

[median heath]

Maybe if your father was smarter his jokes would have been better. 🤷‍♂️

[rancid pecan]

From a person who will never be a dad 😂

[wild forum]

1. My father never told dad jokes. I did

[rancid pecan]

Same here

[wild forum]

😂

For instance, if a horse is pregnant does it have 2 horsepower

[rancid pecan]

What have a cigarette and a hamster in common

[median heath]

1.5

[hushed badger]

wait should i go for 10 water extractors instead of 9 because

1. excess is nice sometimes
2. symmetry

[median heath]

Yes.

[rancid pecan]

They are harmless until you put them in you mouth and light them

[wild forum]

Science Dad Joke; What did the office atom say to the suspect atom.

[hushed badger]

ok nice

[rancid pecan]

It also helps with the liquid loading bug so yes

[hushed badger]

ye i thought about that, cant wait to start this project once ive edited the 2 hours of footage from getting to this point

[wild forum]

I got my ion you

[wind spade]

fun fact, one horse can produce up to 15 horsepower

[rancid pecan]

Oh you again thanks for the nuclear power setup it work great

[maiden musk]

I made a spider web

[rancid pecan]

Spaghetti !

[wild forum]

Why

[maiden musk]

to power my factory

[wild forum]

Unlock higher poles please

my OCD is getting TRIGGERED"

[maiden musk]

I don't have enough caterium

[wild forum]

find some

[maiden musk]

no

[rancid pecan]

Near south spawn is an infinite node or where are you

[maiden musk]

northern forest

[wild forum]

Its behind the sulfur high up

119m

Guarded by an alpha spitter

[maiden musk]

that's why I'm not going there

[wild forum]

I did

yesterday

[maiden musk]

And I will

tomorrow

[fresh crest]

Now get a few stingers there

[hushed badger]

for my 24 coal generator plant should i use 12 water extractors at 75%? makes the piping easier i think

[wind spade]

just use 3 sets of 3 extractors -> 8 gens

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

but if you really want to, you can ofc make it 1:2 ratio

[hushed badger]

doesnt that make piping everything complicated, i havent played that much so i dont really understand pipe mechanics

[wind spade]

no, it's just pipes in that shape as I've shown

super easy

[hushed badger]

oh ok, i mean im not building it until at least tomorrow so might not remember

ill screenshot it

so thats the middle extractor split into the two side extractors right?

[wind spade]

yeah

you can also find it on wiki

[hushed badger]

do pipes have like a tree splitting system or is overflow as efficient?

oh and im doing 10 or 12 extractors for the sake of symmetry

[wind spade]

pipes don't work as belts

[forest blade]

@hushed badger i use 5 and 5 underclock 2 edge ones

[wind spade]

they always keep same level of fluid in all connected pipes

[hushed badger]

oh. as i say i dont really know how pipes work

[forest blade]

how i inject them into the system is based on the question "how can i put these in so that x amount of machines will get them evenly"

[wind spade]

simple, just make a manifold and inject it anywhere

[forest blade]

true, but pipe limits and such

[hushed badger]

hmm, been thinking, for the sake of symmetry 12 underclocked extractors looks better right?

[forest blade]

that is subjective and also we dont know how you've been building

12 = 4 groups of 3

[hushed badger]

i mean nothing has been built yet its in my mind but the idea is 2 lines of 12 generators facing each other with a lowered channel between for the belts and pipes

then the extractors go underneath in my mind but idk if thats practical

[forest blade]

i mirror the generators inputs

so 4 and 4

and align the pipe inputs so 1 junction can feed both sides

when you space them properly, you can even have batteries in between the generators

how i built each floor

fuel gen

---

pipes and splitters

---

water extractors

and change my pipe build mode to horizontal to vertical so it remains 90 deg

[hushed badger]

so what if the pipes and splitters were in the middle so the water extractors are technically on the same level, thats what i was thinking of

[forest blade]

i mean you could

[hushed badger]

i think it would look cool but i wont know until i try it

[forest blade]

but after playing the game for a while, always leave more space than you think you need

you can try and be cute and all, but more space = lets you fix things without deleting everything

[hushed badger]

hmm, is 3 foundations wide for conveyors and pipes too much or no?, needs to be an odd number for symmetry

[forest blade]

i dont really know how you're building it, but you should post pictures in #design-and-architecture and i'll help you there bc this is the maths channel

[hushed badger]

i mean, once ive started building ill send pics, rn im just planning

[forest blade]

3 should be ok bc you'll have space for lights and whatnot if you decide to put them in

[heady vine]

is water tower basically a hack to remove pumps once buffer is full?

ok, i saw two-way pump, and now i don't understand why use pump for water tower to allow backflow during blackouts

[tardy folio]

whats a good and efficient coal system

[stark bronze]

8 generators, 3 water extractors, 120 coal

[heady vine]

Well, you will spend less electricity by using 1 extractor per 2 gens, and less headache when merging pipes
Instead, you pay with more space used for extractors

[frosty owl]

1 extractor for 2 generators consumes more energy (in percentage) than 3 for 8 ^^

[queen rivet]

They don't run continuously, though, so energy evens out.

And if you underclock, you'll even save a bit of energy.

[heady vine]

they are underclocked

so power efficiency increases

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_production_buildings

[frosty owl]

If you consider underclock, you can apply that to any number of extractors to change the energy savings ^^

[heady vine]

exactly.
it's just that 1:2 configuration screams underclock me

[fierce ruin]

You can even go 1:1 or 2:1, your only limit is the water surface area

[frosty owl]

Generally speaking, whenever you underclock extractors/miners to feed coal gens, you gain on power efficiency, but lose in space efficiency

[fierce ruin]

What happens when you underlock coal generators?

[heady vine]

yes, and in early-midgame space is not much of a factor
but power can be

[frosty owl]

You literally need to build more for the same result

0.5 consumption, 0.5 production

[fierce ruin]

I meant what do you gain by underlocking it?

If anything

[frosty owl]

You can get particular numbers for input... Some may find this useful when setting up coal gens that need to starve with certain timings, like for light control and such

[heady vine]

oh i see now

[fierce ruin]

That graph is so weird, it could've made a point clearer if lengh and height were 1:1

The speed at which power consumption growth comparing to overlock speed is much more steep than the graph made it look

[heady vine]

but why place power genrators onto this graph? it's SO confusing

[heady vine]

i had to do it to deal with petrolium coke on early oil setup

[frosty owl]

You didn't want to have the generator starving or...? ^^

[heady vine]

yes, i want stable generation

*predictable

[cold owl]

Stable/predictable is much more important than max generation.

[frosty owl]

Yes
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/893141971487555676/Immagine.png

[fierce ruin]

If you set up overflow system on all ends it'd be stable even if you make more generators than you need, accounting for the extra coke you might get in the future

[frosty owl]

Makes troubleshooting much easier imo

[cold owl]

Yes but even better it drastically reduces the amount of troubleshooting you have to do.

[frosty owl]

How so?

[forest blade]

man I feel like "how do you set up coal" is the most common question asked here

[hushed badger]

im going to draw a diagram of my idea for my coal plant

i know its shit i just made it quick in paint

is that a good idea tho?

[median heath]

Extractors seems a bit odd to me 🤷‍♂️

5 per side works fine. 🤷‍♂️

[hushed badger]

but

symmetry

how do you do the piping neatly

[median heath]

5 per side is symmetry?

[hushed badger]

the piping wont be nice i dont think

[median heath]

5 Extractors = 600
Use a mk2

Yes. a mk2 isn't going to fully do 600, but you need only 540 (which is 4.5 Extractors if you want to underclock)

[hushed badger]

when is mk2 unlocked i literally just got phase 1 done

[median heath]

Oh...

You have valves though, right?

[hushed badger]

uh

idk i'm just planning for when i get on later today

my game rn

coal powerplant uses those 3 pure nodes and crater lake

[median heath]

Not to dissuade you, but do you need that much MW?

[hushed badger]

i'm really annoyed at power rn i dont want to think about it for a while

[median heath]

My first Coal endeavour is a single Pure node, not 3.
Just enough to get me to Oil Power.

[hushed badger]

ive spent about half my play time either collecting leaves or crafting into biofuel

1800mw isnt that much

[median heath]

Onboarding and the first half of the Prologue are like that 😂

[maiden musk]

It's my first time using a water extractor

how much do they make a minute?

[median heath]

Did you read the building description?

[maiden musk]

it's on the building description?

[median heath]

So that's a no, you didn't.

Also you could just build one and find out immediately...

[maiden musk]

correct

I could

[median heath]

Could also read the description.

Not like the devs spend their valuable time writing them...

[pearl yacht]

anyone have a good guide for alumina?

the water byproduct fucks me up every time

[wind spade]

loop it back/burn it in coal gens/use it in pure recipes/use it in wet concrete/package it and sink

[pearl yacht]

loop it back never seems to work properly :/

[wind spade]

that requires a priority merge

[median heath]

VIP junction.

[pearl yacht]

how's that work?

[wind spade]

reffer to McGalleon's guide in pinned post

[pearl yacht]

Thanks

[wind spade]

yo, anybody able to help me? 🤔

I'm looking for a person who's been using my tool and has hit the "maximise doesn't optimise" issue

I'd like a test case - a setup where it's obvious which recipe is the "optimal" one and the tool doesn't pick it (because you're using maximise)

[wicked tinsel]

hmm

thats not too hard?

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=XeaGAgAYk5qAvTRv8K2n 50 batteries, https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=BiP3bC26Bg1TkBCLNA3i

tho not sure if its the case you are looking for

or if you mean that it takes wrong recipe over sometihng more obvious 🤔

not sure if i can reproduce that one easily

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=76P3BLmVc33VZFPU8fJW this one generates artifact

[frosty owl]

I can't point a specific example, but I think you could find some easily trying to maximize something that needs concrete but doesn't use quartz (or at least it shouldn't need to use all the quartz)

The hated fine concrete recipe often makes it into the result there, leading to people sharing the plan and getting asked "wait, why do I need quartz to make HMFs?!" (never happened to me )

[wicked tinsel]

i tried to use the cheap silca one so i had disabled generic silca

and somehow it opted to produce silca from baux too

but im not sure if i can reproduce it

[wind spade]

actually just realised I could just maximise uranium rods

maximised uranium rods on current tool

maximised uranium rods on next planned version

[wicked tinsel]

thats a lot of water extractors 😄

[wind spade]

well it's the more resource efficient way 🙂

(and it's also exactly the same as if you would put "50.4" in directly instead of maximise)

which should™️ fix one of the longest lasting "bugs" in the tool

tho I want to make it even better than this

[frosty owl]

Saves ~40% caterium, 60% oil, 20% quartz...
Slight differences

[wind spade]

yeah, the people that knew were doing this already (typing the numbers back to the tool), but now I'll finally make that work for everyone 😄

[frosty owl]

One step closer to making the tool Idiot Proof

[wind spade]

it will never be

there's always someone who's like "too many things hurr durr me no understand"

[frosty owl]

||Idiocity grows faster than you can develop the tool||

[wind spade]

||nah, it was always around, just nobody knew it before internet became a thing||

[cold owl]

@wind spadejust a quick note to Thank you for the tool. I find it much easier to use and understand the result. i keep the Codex/Item browser open a LOT when i am planning and optimizing.

great set of tools.

[frosty owl]

I agree with the message above

[fierce cypress]

I agree with the message above

[forest blade]

i agree with the message above

[wind spade]

I disagree with the message below

[fierce cypress]

I disagree with the message above

[fierce ruin]

I disagree

[forest blade]

i

[cold owl]

i'm confused

as usual

[frosty owl]

@ mod, such spam such reee

[median heath]

I agreeeee with the message above.

[heady vine]

because it's the first power setup (unlike bio gens, manually operated)
and it's probably your first encounter with liquids
and it's harder than fuel gens afaik

[heady vine]

i know better advice - read wiki before planning to build anything

[median heath]

Not harder or easier than fuel imo.
Just the first part that involves reading building descriptions.
People don't read.
So they come hear instead of reading.

[median heath]

In-game information gathering will always be my preference to wikis tbh.

[heady vine]

did i hit that issue today?

[heady vine]

but you can read wiki without even launching a game, or needing to have resources and place to build...

[median heath]

Wikis can be wrong.

In-game info will be your most accurate sources 🤷‍♂️

(I'm speaking on principle. Not specific to this game)

[heady vine]

4 sure, i will be

[heady vine]

but specifically for this game - using wiki is a more universal approach

[forest blade]

reading important to know the math and some folks just build build build not realizing there's math involved. then they ask why things dont work

[median heath]

Playing a math game without doing math...

[heady vine]

so
just existence of me presents a great challenge to myself because i have to make things around easier for me to use.
and i train that skill by making some things easier for others, and vice versa.
(just proved it last week by making a tool that will let our team write tests much faster and for more complex testcases... because it's handy)

[forest blade]

guess they were conned into playing a math game

[median heath]

No one made them get it. So there was no connage.

[heady vine]

i played factorio with friends
i built exactly one factory that occupied space of 10 by 30
i didn't know about how exactly inserters work, why belt has 2 sides, production rates etc
friend just used blueprints to make giant smelters and factories
i was mainly exploring and building fences
now, in saisfactory i can't defend, but i can explore and plan production lines, using math

[heady vine]

wat?

[median heath]

Now we're dropping F bombs 😭

[heady vine]

exactly the opposite - like Satisfactory more

[median heath]

You still used the word. 😭

[heady vine]

it's like talking about windows without mentioning Linux - are are obligated to

notice - i'm not the Arch user

[wind spade]

Yeah. I have a semi-working fix already

[heady vine]

speaking of classic battery...

instant scrap or classic battery?

[oblique hollow]

instant scrap has the best conversion (tied with a combo of 2 alts: sloppy plus electrode scrap) of bauxite to scrap at the cost of sulfur

and it simplifies aluminum production chain so there is no super tricky feedback

you only need to feed the water it makes back to the acid refineries

its honestly a great recipe if you feel like you can afford the sulfur

[heady vine]

oh, i picked classic battery because we previously talked about producing batteries for drones
and because i had some aluminum production that feels enough for now.
and now i want to take another disk for this recipe

[median heath]

If you were already running a setup with the other aluminium alts, then classic battery was definitely the call.

I personally don't like Instant Scrap because I dislike bringing sulfur into the chain. 🤷‍♂️

[heady vine]

it's a small one - just 180 ingots /m

[heady vine]

huh, there's a high probability that i will need batteries. for drones, to bring sulfur

[median heath]

Sulfur for batteries, yes.
Bringing sulfur into the aluminium production chain, no.
(For me)

[heady vine]

that's the thing - i might need to upgrade aluminum later

[oblique hollow]

i dont find mixing it that bad as you need aluminum for batteries

so its closely enough related for me to be worth it

[oblique hollow]

huh.... this is surprising

i didnt know you can fit exactly 1 extractor in that puddle

[cedar mica]

Might be able to squees in another, if you get it pixel perfect

[oblique hollow]

nope

too bulky

[fringe pawn]

Where is that? I never would have guessed it would fit looking at that puddle.

[oblique hollow]

its near the sulfur node in grass

[fringe pawn]

Nice

[oblique hollow]

tiniest coal power setup with compacted coal xd

[left zenith]

I considered doing that for sulfuric acid but decided that the piping back to base would be a nightmare

[oblique hollow]

bring the solids to it instead

[heady vine]

the whole thing about turbofuel started because i wanter to use it for jetpack (which, at this point, is not really needed for exploration)
and now, i read wiki about turbofuel...

(actually, it started from mod for satelite, but i got too exited about the idea of using turbofuel for both jetpack and every other vehicle)

[sullen cloud]

Since fuels need to be packaged, turbo fuel is only valuable for oil based power.

[heady vine]

you say that turbofuel isn't valuable for vehicles?

[median heath]

False.

Turbofuel does just fine in trucks/explorers.

(That said, once I hit drones I switch everything to running on batteries. Simplifies the process.)

[heady vine]

does it make sense to build steel canisters in NNW region, bring it to WNW region where turbofuel is made and burnt, to package what is left unburnt?

[median heath]

Why not just make canisters from the Poly Resin that the HOR is byproducting from making the Turbofuel?

Like, you're converting all oil to HOR, which gives you poly. So turn it into Residual Plastic and then make free canisters.

🤷‍♂️

[heady vine]

because it can be used for something else? oil is more rare than iron and coal, right?

[median heath]

What exactly are you doing with all that Polymer Resin?

[heady vine]

i can make plastic & rubber from it, for example

[median heath]

So you're shipping out all that from the place while shipping in canisters?
Seems like a lot of effort.

[heady vine]

it may be

[sullen cloud]

If you don’t aim to maximize production for oil based products, oil is not really rare

Im which Tier are you atm?

[median heath]

It is more rare from a map-wide standpoint, but it's extremely rare that you'd run out of it tbh.

[heady vine]

i have just 3 milestones left, in t8

[median heath]

Especially when you do the Recycled Loop to make your Plastic/Rubber a 1:3 from oil.

[heady vine]

yes, but it also means that i have to take care of good spots

[median heath]

I'm not asking you to do anything extra though? Just convert the "free" poly you're getting from already making Turbofuel into the cans it needs.

[sullen cloud]

I don’t know how many vehicles you intend to power. But if I were you, I would skip turbo and aim for batteries instead

[heady vine]

i fear batteries because there's a lot of stuff to be caried around
for which i need fuel

[sullen cloud]

i see. Then most efficient way to produce packaged fuel is the way Sev described.

You can easily produce more plastic or rubber at other locations later.

if needed

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it’s not hard to have both fuel and batteries it’s just Sevs pref

[fierce ruin]

Optimisation Challenge Hello there, I used a variation of the Steiner algorithm called GSMT (Graph Steiner Minimal Tree Problem) to minimize the wire length of all power lines to populate all the nodes on the map. While this minimizes wire length, it doesn't necessarily minimize for number of power poles. However, I feel like it's a pretty optimized start for a lag-efficient 100% build. Since no other power lines exist in my save to do this, the satisfactory map calculator website shows me I have a total of:

84.62km worth of power lines. 
``` Can anyone do better?
Rules:
```diff
- No S.A.M (unused, limited) or water resource wells (not needed for most people) connected, every other resource well and resource node has to be.
- Powerpoles can't clip through terrain, power lines can (within reason).
- All nodes need to be in the same powerline circuit. (you can check with that calculator website)
- Only poles and powerlines, no rails. (switches allowed as well as wall outlets, but we're trying to minimize both length and number of objects)

I can supply a list of node coordinates and/or savefile in private msg to whomever wants to try a different algorithm

[vapid gorge]

I suppose it doesn't take into account saved wire length by possibly using rails as the power lines

[fierce ruin]

It doesn't. It looks at the position of all nodes and finds the least lengthy tree between all those.

[vapid gorge]

I know you said 'no rails' but if you really want to reduce redundancy you should piggy back off logistic rail lines

[fierce ruin]

Intuition tells me rails would only increase length (with rails being part of that length)

But if rails are less laggy, it should be considered for sure.

[vapid gorge]

Intuition is often wrong. For example I have a rail line going up the west coast that would almost completely illiminate everything you have on the west coast

[fierce ruin]

rails don't connect to nodes, you still have to connect everything. Since rails have less degrees of freedom than power lines, you will need longer lines to connect it all up.

[vapid gorge]

Train station at nodes for manufacture or resource transfer

if you're going for 100 efficient least object build you need to take into account the logistic over the whole map to avoid redundancy and use overlap

[fierce ruin]

you assume I didn't?

[vapid gorge]

Considering you could have whole chunks of that power line system be supported by rail you'd probably need anyway yes

[fierce ruin]

I've already divided the map into sectors (each with a station in the future) and I can then delete the connecting lines between those sectors

however, that's not the problem I'm describing here.

And since rails carry power, they count as part of the length.

[vapid gorge]

No but you described it as a part of a 100% efficient build.

[fierce ruin]

"optimised start of..."

[vapid gorge]

Also if you're going for fewest objects you might have multiple power stations scattered around instead of one so you could probably reduce transmission lines further

I mean you've set yourself a mountain of work. It'd probably easier to learn decent programing skills and plug data in to let a simulation plot a lay out with recipes and objects.

[fierce ruin]

You completely miss the point and are taking the fun out of it for me. I'm setting a challenge for the least amount of powerlines (+rails) used for full coverage. That's all it is. The scope of the problem will be expanded later and is not what I'm going for here.

[vapid gorge]

oooo what if you used rail stations as segments instead of power poles? I think rails stretch longer than power lines so while 'bigger' it's still fewer objects

[fierce ruin]

true, but adding train stations and the likes are probably more laggy?

[vapid gorge]

It doesn't have any moving parts if it's not being used? I guess it's possible but I haven't seen anyone talk about size of objs vs actual number on map

[fierce ruin]

and again, less degrees of freedom, so the network is probably going to be bigger

going by the update 5 videos with the rail block stuff, the stations have to be made out of at least 2 different objects

[vapid gorge]

I guess you'd have to try to rate computer resources used based on specific objects to sort out that one

[fierce ruin]

the rail and the structure

[vapid gorge]

Also dependent on how much resources each obj uses while not actually being AROUND...

so maybe if you're far away a station is just a point like anything else and is the same value of consumption

You'll want to nuke the trees of course

[fierce ruin]

yes, I'm working on clearing ALL vegetation as well.

well, the removables

[vapid gorge]

You might be able to do that in SCIM?

[fierce ruin]

so far two biomes done

oh, I want to keep the res

[frosty owl]

Using rails as a replacement for power lines is surely laggier
Using rails as a replacement for power AND belts, though, is a whole different thing. IMO, the latter is the best solution to design the least performance-heavy factory, assuming one wants to use all resources on map

[fierce ruin]

I haven't found a production scheme yet that uses 100% of everything

so far it's like this

[frosty owl]

That increases loading time, btw
Dunno IF it affects performance in general, but if it does it's a negative

[fierce ruin]

it does?

you'd think there's less to load

[frosty owl]

You alter the map from the "standard" state

[fierce ruin]

it's not a separate pool of objects?

[vapid gorge]

You'd have to have a value for 'used'. Technically you could mine then sink everything. And since it's unlikely you can make everything into FINAL products just because you're swimming in limestone and iron you'll have to set yourself a tier of item I think.

[frosty owl]

Funny enough, the REMOVED foliage is the recorded info (that needs to be loaded additionally)

The map comes with full foliage

[wind spade]

practically you couldn't (fluids) 😛

[vapid gorge]

oooooh ok packages ALL the fluids then sink them. DRAIN THE OCEAN AND SINK IT

[fierce ruin]

alright, I'll repopulate the map then

but the game feels smoother without the foliage

[frosty owl]

It MIGHT help rendering

[vapid gorge]

It COULD be that removing the foliage increases load time but improves in game performance

[wind spade]

smoother yeah (renders less objects), but savefile is bigger and loading is longer

[fierce ruin]

don't care about loading and savefile

I do care about saving and rendering

[vapid gorge]

Nuke the trees I think then

[wind spade]

saving would be longer as well

[frosty owl]

It 100% increases load time. It's very noticeable of you clear an entire biome

[vapid gorge]

Oh wait. It might increase save time

[fierce ruin]

okay 😄

[wind spade]

saving and loading times are pretty much the same

[fierce ruin]

roger

[wind spade]

(meaning increasing one increases the other)

[vapid gorge]

Yeah so nuking trees = more save/load time but probably better performance? It's real weird XD

[frosty owl]

Just leave enough plastic to package-sink all fluids
Sink the excess plastic/canisters

[fierce ruin]

I thought saving only recorded changes

[vapid gorge]

I'm guessing they actually did it with the assumption we WOUDLNT nuke the world and most people would be loading the game with little change in foliage

like regular sane folk

[wind spade]

plastic packaging? 🤢

iron coated ftw

[vapid gorge]

We could do steel if you want.

[frosty owl]

Or whatever you prefer to make containers from 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=GUlsrrGmXsD8YxKl4aek this is the plan so far

coal + turbofuel for power, I don't want nuclear waste

50k + 160k or something like that

[vapid gorge]

Counter point to that - tons of extra power means the option for lots of overclocking and freeing objects

[fierce ruin]

all nodes are optimally oc'd

[vapid gorge]

Manufacturer oc'd ect

[fierce ruin]

the plan is to use remaining shards for wherever I can oc the power (less generators)

[vapid gorge]

You could theoretically have infinite power shards from doggos

[fierce ruin]

I've never farmed doggos 😄

[vapid gorge]

See now I want you to grow a neural net, feed it all this nonsense just ot see the completely unintuitive nightmare it makes to make shortest processing and fewest objects

[median heath]

You can do a waste-free nuclear setup 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

oh, since update5?

[median heath]

Yes.

[fierce ruin]

ooooh

[vapid gorge]

Turn it into plutonium rods that you then sink

Sorry thought you knew that

[fierce ruin]

haven't played in like a year, mostly been planning a new playthrough 😄

[frosty owl]

Tbh, IMO combining 'no nuclear' with "OC only power generators" leads to a pretty normal playthrough, in regards to object count

Nuclear not only allows you to get the cheapest power possible, but also for the least buildcount possible.
Additionally, the power it gives out is so much you can OC so much that you could cut down your machines by 25% or more without going over your power budget

[fierce ruin]

good points

[frosty owl]

I'm referring to overclocking production machines, like constructors and such (requiring less power, you can OC more of them)

[fierce ruin]

looks like I'll need to look into waste-free nuclear

[frosty owl]

As long as you SINK plutonium, it's plenty feasable. Ceiling is ~600 GW

[vapid gorge]

It's not a HUGE process but it does rely on bauxite infrastructure thta nuclear didn't need

[median heath]

Use all Uraniun alts and all baseline plutonium recipes.
EZ 500+ GW

[fierce ruin]

600 GW should be enough for 100% production

or maybe just short

[frosty owl]

I reckon ~400 GW would suffice imo

[wind spade]

it is

[vapid gorge]

I'm doing probably 70% ~ ish? Planner is telling me 400GW

Maybe closer to 85 actually. Never really cared about that part

[wind spade]

pure uranium power + max sink production uses ~80% of uranium power

[median heath]

@frosty owl me, here with a single outpost that requires 60 GW to run...

[fierce ruin]

I disassembled my 70gw normal fuel power in the northern spire fields

[vapid gorge]

I thought you were plopping down outposts in lots of spots?

[fierce ruin]

to make a 160gw turbo

[median heath]

I am.
The HMF one takes just over 60.

[vapid gorge]

Nice. Though with that much you'll need to consider what you'll need to use in sulfur for nuclear.

[fierce ruin]

but what to do with coal, the simulator says with all recipes unlocked I don't need it for anything

[vapid gorge]

Sorry TOTALLY misread that. Thought you meant you only had a single out post and it needed 60

[frosty owl]

Me, still finishing my ~12 GW nuclear factory

[vapid gorge]

I keep coal for all my steel personally. My oil gets all turned to plastic and rubber mostly

[median heath]

Steel?

[fierce ruin]

half of sulfur still available, but haven't built the turbo yet so I can probably still do nuclear

[vapid gorge]

Hmmm I never looked at max efficiency with lower obj before. Couldn't tell you if the recycled plastic/rubber system consumes too many objects.

[fierce ruin]

I mean, I dissassembled everything but the power lines atm

[vapid gorge]

Does your max efficiency include producting as many goods as possible from raw resources?

[fierce ruin]

using as much % of the nodes as possible

[vapid gorge]

ok so you COULD use the raw resource inneficiently to reduce the parts you make

[median heath]

Hehe. All of that planning goes out the window the moment they add a new item to the game.

[fierce ruin]

well, I do want to produce most items I need for new builds

and sink points

[frosty owl]

Using "inefficient" recipes can be the easiest way to consume 100% of nodes and keep the buildcount in check ^^

[fierce ruin]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=GUlsrrGmXsD8YxKl4aek this is the plan so far

[vapid gorge]

did the game have the blended diluted fuel and the recycled plastic and recycled rubber recipes last time?

[median heath]

Efficiency Last.

[fierce ruin]

pre update 5 yea

[vapid gorge]

Then yeah you proooobbaaablly want to turn your oil to platsics and rubbers rather than coke steel. There's some really efficient recipes for raw part production

[fierce ruin]

9000 buildings so far

[median heath]

Coal, being next to iron...
Why would you ship in Coke instead if just making Solid Steel?

[fierce ruin]

to produce most ingame items

[frosty owl]

Most of the very efficient plans usually have more than 4k constructors JUST FOR IRON WIRE

[fierce ruin]

have you looked at my plan?

[median heath]

Caterium Wire ftw.

[vapid gorge]

I think considering that coal has little use other than steel or power, if you want the most parts you want solid steel.

[median heath]

If the goal is reduced building count, use coal for aluminum too.
Instant Scrap saves you the entire "solution" step.

[vapid gorge]

I mean that's the other thing you can't have both 'most parts made' and 'least objects on map' - you could have 'most parts made with least objects' I guess?

[frosty owl]

Just glanced through the list of produced items. Browsing is annoying on mobile

[frosty owl]

Fused FTW :P

[vapid gorge]

oooooh I never gave instant scrap my time, would doing all bauxite with instant leave you with enough sulfur for full nuclear?

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

ok, let me explain the strategy I had for the current plan. I looked at every building and equipment and vehicle in the game and the build cost for those. I also looked at all the milestones and MAM and Space elevator costs. I tallied all the resources and divided by 100 (100 minutes for all milestones and such is the point). I rounded up most to a number that sort of makes sense (not done with this yet, still balancing production lines). I then added some more of stuff I'll need more of to build things (belt mats, rail mats, concrete, etc) or use (nobelisks, cartridges, fuel). That's sort of the plan... Now I'm looking if, based on the current plan, I can optimize for least lag and most raw resources used.

[frosty owl]

Yeah, it should. Nuclear just takes 2100 Sulphur, it's not all that much

[median heath]

Oh the amount of repeating decimals or things that go past the 4 decimal limit in your machine clock speeds just hurts my soul to think about ..

[vapid gorge]

So you have value on the resources needed to make the infrastructure? For me that's an odd goal but if that works for you?

[fierce ruin]

It's "one of each type of building" in mats

• everything else you need to spend mats on

including customisation

[frosty owl]

If you want the output to remain the same but use up all ores and reduce buildcount, less efficient recipes are the way 👍
Eg: bolted recipes

[median heath]

Hey, Bolted Frames isn't terrible.

[vapid gorge]

But GL also values high part production

[median heath]

Bolted Plates is though...

[fierce ruin]

not really :p

[vapid gorge]

Oh? Sorry I thought you said you wanted to make the most parts as well up top

[frosty owl]

It's not, but it still uses more iron than standard iirc

[fierce ruin]

Cobalt, I value most raw res used

[vapid gorge]

ok ok ok so least efficient recipes then.

[fierce ruin]

still comes down to a balancing act

[median heath]

I will have to check.
I do know it's a pretty damn good space-saver.

[frosty owl]

The issue with such a plan is that you can't really have the calculator help you out with it to check ^^
The calculator tries to use the LEAST ores in most cases after all ahah

[summer fox]

if i put a smart splitter set it to over flow on a belt with 780pm going into production needing 600pm the remaining 180 would class as overflow right?

[vapid gorge]

That makes it easier. You said you zoned out the logistics for each zone yeah? Have you planned the hub location based on that yet?

[median heath]

After the 600 backs up, yes.

[fierce ruin]

well, you can specify the recipes

[vapid gorge]

Remember though that each belt to belt connection you have on that line will slightly slow down the whole belt efficiency when running at max speed so if you're relying on a very precice number thta might throw things a LITTLE bit

[frosty owl]

Bolted recipes are always a space-saver for the component they're making. Just look at the output/min ^^

Ofc, this doesn't mean they save space OVERALL (as one may needs more RIPs, for instance, which require a lot of space to be mad), but depending on alts used, I think ALL bolted can have the least buildcount

[frosty owl]

Yes, but then the planner will use only ONE recipe rather than multiple, which can be an issue in some cases ^^

[median heath]

It was more than that for Frames though.
Will see if I can find my note on why I liked them.

[vapid gorge]

True, I have a 'master' plan with recipes but I've broken down the master plan into hub plans mixing recipes sometimes so as to import less parts

[fierce ruin]

current plan uses petroleum coke and compacted coal

or is that not what you meant?

I also get water from the alumina as well as raw

I see what you mean now

[oblique hollow]

the water from alumina is not really a plus, its a "more goes in than comes out"

[fierce ruin]

yea

and it's still just one recipe

[vapid gorge]

WELL. Sev had a point about using the instant scrap alt recipe if you want fewest buildings so you'll want ot save a good chunk of coal for that

[frosty owl]

That's not what was referring to @fierce ruin (I forgot to answer the right message).
Lemme give an example: you want to make 50 turbomotors/min. But you only have a "few" resources remaining due to other productions. There is no way to tell the planner: use all ores aviable to make X Amount of turbomotors, so you try disabling the most efficient recipe to up the resource consumption, but now the planner gives no result because there's NOT ENOUGH resources to make ALL the turbomotors ONLY with the least efficient recipe...
Makes sense? ^^

[fierce ruin]

Yes

the no nuclear waste thing, it's b e a u t i f u l

[frosty owl]

TBH........
Last I checked, instant scrap didn't impact buildcount in a meaningful way :/
So much so that my opinion on the recipe is: it makes the water thing a bit easier, requires different resources. Nothing else 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

^this, and in my current plan the overall res used is less (probably because of tie-ins with other production)

[vapid gorge]

Really? Is the the production of sulfuric acid make up for any gains in reduced buildings?

[frosty owl]

Not that I remember...
If there's any gain, it's so small I don't remember it (less than 5%)

[median heath]

Gains are gains bruh. Everyone starts somewhere.

[fierce ruin]

I'd be happy with 5% less buildings, but it doesn't help in this situation.

[frosty owl]

It's actually the sulphuric acid that adds so much hassle that the buildcount balances out compared to non-instant

[fierce ruin]

as I now have to add buildings for other production

[vapid gorge]

Just looking at it... yeah instead of 2 refineries you need 1 sulfur refinery and 1 blender XD

[vapid gorge]

This is getting weird eh? XD

[frosty owl]

Linear optimization is easy

[vapid gorge]

damn, here I thought we'd finally found a use for instant scrap XD

[fierce ruin]

actually, I'm sorry!

[wind spade]

can confirm it's black magic

[fierce ruin]

removing Electrode - Aluminum makes 9023 instead of 9081 buildings ! Yaaaay

[vapid gorge]

changing to instant?

[frosty owl]

And that's exactly why people still don't understand why sushi is so good

Magic of the highest order is hard to understand

[median heath]

Sushi is red magic though.

[frosty owl]

Why red?

[vapid gorge]

Nah, real universal truths should be simple

[fierce ruin]

I missed that recipe

the electrode one

[median heath]

Just continuing the Final Fantasy mage color meme.

And calling it "white magic" would just be asking for trouble tbh.

[fierce ruin]

so uh, back to the original problem, does anyone have a smaller power line network? 😄

[fierce ruin]

every cultured man knows white magic is all about life gain and angels (edit: oh, and cat warriors)

[vapid gorge]

Well assuming you did the formulas right I can't think of a least power line section you could make tbh

[median heath]

You are looking for cultured people... in Discord?

[fierce ruin]

good point

[median heath]

[fierce ruin]

I probably won't find any MTG nerds on discord 😄

[vapid gorge]

.... really?

[median heath]

More YuGiOh people in my experience.

[vapid gorge]

How is there not 154 discord channels for MTG?

[fierce ruin]

there probably are, I was being ironic / sarcastic

or meta-ironic even

[median heath]

Black/White Zombie Artifact deck all day.

[fierce ruin]

full Myr deck ftw

Mirrodin forever

[median heath]

I did run a pure Blue one time where I had over 100 cards because the strat was just keep dropping perms that forced you to draw.
So you'd get up to drawing 6 cards per turn and all I had to do was live till your deck ran out 😂😂

[fierce ruin]

creates more tokens than there are playable cards in a match

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/cross-demon-begone-buffy-vampirehunter-gif-9656993

[fierce ruin]

Ruin Crab ? @median heath

[vapid gorge]

Back you foul nerds

[fierce ruin]

alright 🙂

[median heath]

[median heath]

He's clearly a Pokémon (ripoff) guy. 😉

[vapid gorge]

mtg was something I could never get into. Netrunner was fine? I guess?

[vapid gorge]

Mostly ttrpgs with my theatre nerd friends

[fierce ruin]

almost like a Satisfactory thing

[median heath]

MTG for me hit stride when it went digital, so you weren't solely relying on pack RNG to get cards.

[fierce ruin]

the dunes need ruin crabs

[vapid gorge]

Would you say a Crab Mod is in order?

[median heath]

Howling Mine iirc. It's been a while.

There wasn't a prereq. It was just "at start of turn, draw +2" every time.
And I'd get like 3-4 of them on the board.

[fierce ruin]

ever played cookie clicker? with the bugs that eat your cookie, dune crabs should pick items from your belts and if you kill them, they spill all those

[vapid gorge]

A crab mod for that WOULD be great, right @median heath ?

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[fierce ruin]

I used green and white "draw additional land, draw land, sacrifice land for other land, ..." spells

creature is land also

[median heath]

Blue/Black where you had the "draw more" and "take damage for drawing" combo.

[frosty owl]

Oi, stop that before I call the #off-topic-general police!

[fierce ruin]

don't want to spoil our convo, but we should keep it on topic 😄

lol, too late

[median heath]

This is meta.
Just not Satisfactory meta 😉

[fierce ruin]

I'm so over meta

[median heath]

Hehe

[frosty owl]

If it's not Satisfactory...
||... it's unsatisfactory||

[median heath]

I have to get ready for work anyhow.

[median heath]

Banned for shit pun.

[frosty owl]

At least it's a Satisfactory pun, so...

[fierce ruin]

great talk guys, see you around!

[fierce ruin]

I found a 77.9 M sink points per minute, 21k buildings, mostly 100% map res (nitrogen at 96%) build. Time to plan out all the factories and their input/output logistics now 😄

[heady vine]

i had thoughts about 1 global storage system with sinks for overflow, but i'm not sure if merging input to them is a good idea

[fierce ruin]

initial plan was a megafactory with trains supplying from 32 sectors

the only separated factory would be the nuclear + plutsink

but I'm looking at my sectorstats to see what I can separate

easier to bring 1 output of let's say supercomputers to the central storage than to move cat + ireon + copper + oil for example

on the other hand, It'll save me a lot of puzzling if I can just supply all resources to a megafactory, with a bus for each res type

and split where needed

[frosty owl]

FYI Having all production in one place normally leads to the worse FPS

[candid iron]

Anyone Pls help got tagged 2 weeks ago. Anyone know How to jump to last tag message

[median heath]

Hit the search button (magnifying glass) then type "mentions:YourUsername"

[candid iron]

Rip it was a reply tag

Can’t find it using @ stuff

[median heath]

Mine shows reply tags as well.

[candid iron]

Wait found it Thx man:))

[mossy flint]

makes walls

[muted gale]

Black white blue artifact deck with prototype portal and master of aethereum

[fierce ruin]

What website/program do you use for that

[forest blade]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner

[ebon crater]

this spot has to be the best for steel factory

i can make all of my steel items here. if i use a few alternatives

okay hold on it just got better

if i use less alternatives i can use copper wire, of wich there are 2 pure nodes

[median heath]

"Best" by what metric?

Because allow me to introduce you to Coal Lake East:

[forest blade]

yeah but its a ways away from spawn 3 ya know

[median heath]

I didn't know spawn location was relevant in a "best place for steel" discussion?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[forest blade]

for some that might be a consideration

[ebon crater]

sure??? but where concrete

[median heath]

Sec, I marked those off.

[forest blade]

EVERYWHERE

[ebon crater]

oh ok

[forest blade]

but there should be some nearby

[ebon crater]

hmm

your right. its comparable.

[median heath]

2 pures 1 normal in the basic build radius.

[ebon crater]

less iron than i would like though

but yeah, pretty good

[median heath]

3 Pure Irons matches perfectly with the 3 Pure Coals 🙂

[forest blade]

3 pure nearby that he turned off lol

[median heath]

Can get fancy with Compacted Steel if you wish too.

[ebon crater]

not if yyour trying to make modular frames and rotors aswell

[ebon crater]

yup found the location looking at it myself

[median heath]

You need to learn how to clarify better.

"Best Steel" = STEEL.

Now you're listing other things.

[ebon crater]

sorry??

[median heath]

Changes the parameters.

[ebon crater]

HMF have more than just steel??

[forest blade]

sometimes satisfactory be like that tho

[ebon crater]

i listed the list of things im making?

[forest blade]

intend on 1 thing, but then realize it's actually more than that thing

[median heath]

"Best HMF" is different than "Best Steel"

[ebon crater]

im giving you a list of things that im making, that include steel, not my fault 🤷

[median heath]

Listing what you're building with said steel doesn't trigger a deviation from "best steel" in my head. 🤷‍♂️
It's just what you want to build with the steel from the "best steel" spot.

Clarifying "Best <All of These Things>" spot alters scouting parameters.

[ebon crater]

okay sorry you ddintt read my message

we can drop this now

[median heath]

Best Multi-function spot is Dune Desert tbh.

That's why I put my HMF outpost there.

[ebon crater]

when im making 100HMF/min i probably will

but for the moment i'd like to keep it close, especially considering i need to transport rubber to that location

hold on... that might be easyer...

[median heath]

Oh god.. so many tabs...

[forest blade]

eventually you'll work on trains to make this a non-issue

[median heath]

You spelled Trucks wrong 😉

[ebon crater]

thats what im planning to do, but trains are like... lots of power

[forest blade]

trains bring power too

so you dont have to drag power lines everywhere

stations will power whatever you're going to build nearby

[ebon crater]

researching every item that deviates from steel so i can somewhat future proof it

[ebon crater]

yeah but thats like... not even a bonus worth considering

sure its cool

[forest blade]

well when you go to the dune desert, you'll probably think otherwise

might as well build infrastructure as you explore

[ebon crater]

but the way i think about it, is i make a cool looking highway, with conveyors, hypertubes, and trains on top as an extra

so yes i will be using trains

but not across the map. just like..

a lil bit.

wana go small for my first time with trains

[forest blade]

okay baby steps i get it

also rails will power your hoverpack too :p

[ebon crater]

huh

intresting

aniways back to math i go

time to make 10HMF/min

[forest blade]

i dont trust them. ptsd falling thru world w/ one carrying power shards

[median heath]

U5 called, wanted to remind you it isn't U1 anymore.

[forest blade]

they will be part of my world race track tho

[placid nymph]

1 day running unattended + a crap load of items overflowing into the sinks = 1 ticket a week for a year

I expected a few tickets not that much

[frosty owl]

That moment when you sushi-split to avoid spooling your sushifolds
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/sp1h97/sushi_loadbalancing_teaser/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[stark bronze]

When sushi is compact but you still have to load balance

[frosty owl]

Well, you don't have to...
But doing so allow to skimp on input belts (though I didn't do so with the version in video)

[lament spindle]

just a question how to split 960 into 300, 300, 300 and 90?

[proper karma]

You cant?
300+300+300+90=990
Which is too much for a belt

[median heath]

Manifold it.

[lament spindle]

opps i meant into 300, 300, 300 and 60

[wind spade]

still too much, max belt does 780

[lament spindle]

umm gonna say it better i have oil nodes that make together 960 oil/m and i nedd to split that output into 3 pipes that have 300 oil/m and one that has 60/m

[wind spade]

just connect them all and it will balance itself

[lament spindle]

i dont yet have acces to pipelines mk 2

[wind spade]

doesn't change what I said

as long as you connect them somehow well, it will work

[lament spindle]

i cant transport 960 oil/m in one mk1 pipe

so how?

[minor sluice]

correct, but you can transport it in 4 pipes that feed one "main" line that feeds your machines

[wind spade]

e.g.

 O   O   O  O
 |   |   |  |
 +---+---+--+
 |   |   |  |
300 300 300 60

O = oil extractor

[lament spindle]

wait i can just connect pipes or belts together and they will balance out the output and i dont have to spend 3 hours making a complex web of splitterrs and mergers just to make the output a value that i want

[wind spade]

yes

[lament spindle]

well thats around 50 hours of playtime wasted calculating

[wind spade]

it's called a manifold

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[minor sluice]

for pipes, I'd recommend reading McGalleon's pipeline manual, think there's a link to it on the wiki's pipeline page

[lament spindle]

ok then another question is 320 plastic and rubber/m enough?

[minor sluice]

for like...ever? probably not but I don't know what the minimum "reasonable" amount to produce is since I always build big

[wind spade]

depends, you don't need too much plastic/rubber for building

and for other parts it would be part of their production line

[fierce ruin]

can anyone explain sushi to me?

[frosty owl]

As in "how mixed belts work"?

[fierce ruin]

that all to it?

[frosty owl]

It's kind of a very broad question 😅

[fierce ruin]

I thought it was some overflow magick

[frosty owl]

Sushi is just a different name for mixed belts

Those though, can be a pretty big subject, depending on how specific are the result you wish to obtain...
I could list some of the most notable results I know of if you'd like

[frosty owl]

Overflow management could be a topic on its own, but I'd say it comes down to either

1. Sinkin
2. Consuming items via machines
3. Storing (temporary, ofc)

[fierce ruin]

I don't know what information I'm missing about the subject 😄 the smart/programmable splitters I've used pre update5

so the overflow filter of the smart works now?

[supple belfry]

Yes

Overflow works reliably, making sushi belts possible

[fierce ruin]

so I can just put an overflow before an ICS to sink whatever I have full storage of

[frosty owl]

With smart splitters you can do sorting and sushi manifolds (literally a manifold, but with a sushi belt as the main line)
Programmable splitters allow to load-balance sushi belts and make it possible (in extreme cases) to feed multiple multi-input machines with a single belt each

[fierce ruin]

but they are slightly laggier / stuttery, I presume?

and the eliminated cost of multiple belts into one, if possible, would be offset by the cost of the new laggier/stuttery splitting?

f.e. 4 into 1

obviously depends on the length, but maybe someone has some numbers 😄

[frosty owl]

I've heard complaints about smart splitters' performance only once in years about them, and I'm doubtful they were using them effectively (since yeah, they require more CPU to operate, but you save on tons of beltwork)

To clarify, replacing every splitter with a smart/programmable one "just because" is a terrible idea, imo

[fierce ruin]

As I'm planning a 100% raw resource use / ~30k prod/power buildings build, I'd like to save objects as much as I can for the sake of savebloat / save & load times / fps

full power networked map raw resource extraction level is already using ~2.4k objects (wire + pole + miners)

that's without the belts

[frosty owl]

Eh, very broadly speaking... I think it can be worth trying to optimize beltwork (mixing) wherever your belts are less then... ~40% full...
The ideal range would be 30% or less imo 🤔

[fierce ruin]

I could also test on a blank map, anyone know the performance UI visualizer hotkey?

see where the tradeoff happens

[frosty owl]

As you mentioned, smart splitters "cost" more (in FPS), so trying to optimize beltwork with belts that are close to 50% full should be done only for LONG belts

[fierce ruin]

indeed

[sleek notch]

I can see the sushi conveyor being bottlenecked easily but maybe im misunderstanding things

[frosty owl]

Just assume there's a sink at the end of every line and that you know how throughput works (so yoh don't merge stuff mindlessly )

[fierce ruin]

I can already see in my production flow schema that I'll have some parts where one instead of four could be used, but I'd have to see if that makes sense "topologically"

yeah, overflow on every output (well, input of the next step)

is gonna be essential

[frosty owl]

As long as there's overflow somewhere you're good, but forgetting to have can cost a clog in the system

[fierce ruin]

It shouldn't be an issue as I'm planning 100% efficient with the right belt levels and everything, but shouldn't aka assumption is the mother of all fuckups/Errors

I'm just glad I don't have to use splitter-merger arrays for overflow

[frosty owl]

Well, the bottleneck is 780/min 🤷‍♂️
It can be low for many productions, if not most, depending on how one designs their factory ^^

[fierce ruin]

screws 😄

I don't think I have those in the production anywhere tho

[frosty owl]

I've been applying all kinds of sushi in a maddening factory just to pioneer whatever techniques could be made with them...

I know a thing or two about how assumptions break factories

[fierce ruin]

I know a thing or two about assumptions in general 😄

because I like to brute force as much as I like to carefully plan out.

[frosty owl]

It got to a point where I could clog my factory by literally just flying with the hoverpack on the other side of the map

[fierce ruin]

hmmmm

was this pre "belts are textures" ?

[median heath]

Sushi 🙃

[fierce ruin]

seen that, ish pretty

[frosty owl]

A bug was involved. Luckily, at that point, my factory was perfect already, so I could just
(And no, it's a bug still present it involves the hoverpack, different power networks and machines going idle)

[fierce ruin]

pack draws power, no?

[frosty owl]

100 MW

[fierce ruin]

I'm gonna assume you had enough power

[frosty owl]

That's a safe assumption to make ✅

[fierce ruin]

weird bug

[frosty owl]

I could dig up the QA link, but... I'm on mobile

Nvm, found it handy
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/61dc9fee831c852052368717

But yeah, fun way to make your entire factory go idle if you so wish...............

[fierce ruin]

easy workaround is everything on one grid then? 😄

does this also happen when you go out/in range?

[frosty owl]

Everything on one network. I tried, different grids are safe (and that's my solution atm)

[sleek notch]

What does range affect?

[frosty owl]

Just when the hoverpack switches from one network to another in the same grid. I think landing between switching network doesn't trigger the bug since you're not requiring power (?)

[fierce ruin]

wait, I use grid informally to refer to the whole power grid, what's the distinction you make?

power switches?

[frosty owl]

A power grid is the the entirety of the power poles/machines connected and that you see when you check a power pole
A network is a part of the grid, separated by a power switch (U4)

[fierce ruin]

aha

networks aren't shown separately in the power pole UI?

(I've got a meeting in a few, be back in 2 hours)

[frosty owl]

When you check a power pole, you check the GRID, unless the power switches are off... In other words you can't display a single network whoile connected to the grid

[fierce ruin]

ok

sounds like they need to unit test the power grid stuff 🙂

[frosty owl]

"Unit test"?

[fierce ruin]

testing parts (methods, operations) of the power grid code

[unkempt escarp]

why it is blocked ? 😦

[fierce ruin]

either "hoverpack joins network" is too expensive an operation and needs to be optimized (so it happens in trivial time for the production code) or there's some calls not happening

[unkempt escarp]

no problem bellow ..

[median heath]

Is the junction part of this important?
Because it looks like the train is going away.

[fierce ruin]

have you checked the orientation of all the signs properly?

[unkempt escarp]

wich junction ? 👀

[fierce ruin]

where the holo-arrows go

ok, meeting, bue

[unkempt escarp]

yes all is good, I had to do it with the update, and everything is green

[frosty owl]

(You can notice the signals' orientation by the side of the rail they're on 😉
Good meeting 👋)

[median heath]

Thank you for coming to his VenTalk.

[unkempt escarp]

only trains can tell a block that it is occupied or foundations can interfere ?

[median heath]

Foundations shouldn't matter. It's all about the rails.

Might need to manually drive it forward a bit and then see if it gets re-stuck.

[unkempt escarp]

I tried to turn it back and forth, it still locks up
if I remove the block signal (on the right of the train) it moves

I moved the signal a few centimeters after to see what it will do, maybe it was too close to the previous signal, and with the speed they did not have time to interact together

[soft scarab]

Delete the track and rebuild

[unkempt escarp]

same ... afk train 🥲

[soft scarab]

There may be a small break in the track - ie it looks like it connects but it’s actually two separate pieces. Manual driving like was suggested before would verify this

(Not the whole track just that section the train is stuck on)

[unkempt escarp]

i try it

weird ... I backed up my train to remove the rails under it, and when I go out, another train arrived and it passed without problem 🥺

it stops manually here (it did not have much speed) 🤔

dont understand, always the same train that stops here, the others pass without problem
the only difference is that he (the one with the problem) stops at the next intersection

adding a block on the road does not do anything, but removing the block before the intersection signal makes it start again

I see no reason why one of my trains should stop at the same place and not the others

[soft scarab]

How did the other train pass if the first one was there?

Oh I’m guessing you backed it up past the intersection then

[unkempt escarp]

i backed my train on the left, and the wait train is on right

[soft scarab]

Any error messages in the train when you went in?

[unkempt escarp]

just "frein"

[soft scarab]

I’d still delete and rebuild the track section and maybe also the train just to be on the safe side

[unkempt escarp]

already done 🥲

[unkempt escarp]

I removed all the blocks on the way, but it always stops at the same place (within 1 or 2 foundations)

this train drives me crazy

[limpid cedar]

Weird. It looks too steep somehow tho

Obviously you placed it but just seems like it would be to tight of a turn

[unkempt escarp]

you want to talk about the turn down there?

[oblique hollow]

obviously your train is an idiot, punish it by dismantling it

or just replace the locomotive, see if that helps

[median heath]

Punish it harder by switching to trucks. 😉

[unkempt escarp]

🤒

I removed all the block signals and moved the trajectory signal a little further and it worked

but it bugs me to have to do it like that, it's a big block

[oblique hollow]

your train is an idiot 🤷
there really is no better explaination

[unkempt escarp]

I will look at the backup tonight to see if there is something invisible

[wicked tinsel]

i would start by nuking the train

they get buggy and thats about it

[unkempt escarp]

u prefer this ugly idiot ? 🥸

[oblique hollow]

you just had to put belts in his way didnt you

[unkempt escarp]

it's a misunderstanding 👀

[oblique hollow]

trucks are funny

tractors suck

[hushed badger]

when are trucks unlocked?

[unkempt escarp]

Tiers 5

with computer

[hushed badger]

damn

gonna have to use tractors for steel then

[unkempt escarp]

yes 😂

[hushed badger]

you know

i was looking at the map cuz why not

hmmmm

4 pure iron nodes with flat land between

[unkempt escarp]

where is it 🤔 dont remember

[hushed badger]

rocky desert

kinda near the west edge

[unkempt escarp]

oh yes here, there is a nice 3 pur coal area at the other end (east) not far from my truck 👀
I do not know if there is better

[hushed badger]

wondering what i should make with 4 pure iron nodes

[unkempt escarp]

optimization of heavy modular frame (well prepare, I guess you don't have them yet)

[hushed badger]

whats hmf recipe?

[hushed badger]

damn steel

theres pure limestone nearby but not much coal

[unkempt escarp]

i u want good coal/limeston/iron

[hushed badger]

i guess i could truck some over but

idrk

[unkempt escarp]

here

[hushed badger]

do truck stations have a seperate input for fuel

so i can have a station just for refueling

[unkempt escarp]

there is iron/copper/coal not far away, but it's a bit far from your area ?

[hushed badger]

im right down south of the rocky desert right now

im using the crater lakes for coal powerplant

[unkempt escarp]

👀 👀

[hushed badger]

ye its bad

imma redo it at some point

[unkempt escarp]

you can do it again here too, much more space I think

[hushed badger]

im gonna do it in the connected crater i think

i dont have very many RIP's so i dont want long belts

[unkempt escarp]

with the 4 pure noeud you won't have any problem if you optimize well

[hushed badger]

i mean im using 2 pure iron nodes to make pretty much everything

[unkempt escarp]

the only problem at the beginning is the belts 🥲

[hushed badger]

its that 'dj kaled suffering from success'

you got the pure nodes but dont have the belts for them

[jagged merlin]

How reliable are numbers?
Like if you have an output of 30 and an in input of 30, will it really match?
Till now I had good experiences with solid materials but fluids are sometimes tricky.

I've build a little experiment. For solid materials, it works like expected, I guess it runs for days, weeks or month without running empty or full stock.
But for water, after just 1 day, I lost some m³.

[hushed badger]

the fluid load bug maybe?

[fierce cypress]

2 things:
it could be the fluid void bug where you will loose some items on launch and the second thing; pipes work better when they are full

[jagged merlin]

ok, then maybe it is the second problem
for my test, I have a waterextractor (120 output), a pipe cross and 2 machienes that eat 60 water each
the pipes after the cross to the machiens are exactly the same length
I managed to start it perfectly (from an observer view) so that the water in the machine is not full or empty, it fluctuated in the middle
so it fills up to 22, then the machines completed a cycle, eats 5 so it jumps back to 17 (+- 0.5)
I looked back there 5 hours later, it seems to still work
now, a day later, the machines are down to 10-15 instead of 17-22

so if this would be a real pipeline, I would expect that there is some leakage 😄

[fierce ruin]

relevant?

old patch tho

[jagged merlin]

oh, it could also be the mentioned load bug, because we restarted the server yesterday, maybe this changed the number of my experiment

maybe the pipes got emptied on load and soaked new water so the machines numbers declined a little bit

[median heath]

Could also be the standard issue...

Multiplayer Broken. Plz Fix.

[oblique hollow]

probably loading bug

5 m³ per machine so 10 m³ total down, but also 5m³ for the extractor itself

some of course gets compensated by them idling

but yeah makes sense that they are down more

[heady vine]

that place is heandy for early coal gen and steel setup - iron, copper, limestone very near
and quartzz, sulfur and even more iron not so far

[fringe pawn]

Because the game needs to reset every 24 hours, wouldn't that mean even a dedicated server hits the fluid loss bug once a day? Or is the reset after 24 hours a single player thing?

[heady vine]

were you taking coal from?

[hushed badger]

3 pure nodes

[heady vine]

i'm blind

[vivid tusk]

Isn’t taking coal from there the worst possible place to get coal, because of all the enemies and evil arachnids.

[minor sluice]

^ not if you turn on arachnophobia mode >.>

[median heath]

What enemies?
Looks at pile of corpses that will never respawn.

[minor sluice]

The real enemies were the friends you made along the way....

[median heath]

Ew. Multiplayer.

[frosty owl]

... what enemies? 🙃

[hushed badger]

theres just a few hogs, scariest thing is the alpha hog protecting the crash site

[fierce ruin]

you guys don't quarantine the animals?

I thought that was the only use for walls.

[magic ivy]

JUST FVCKING USE CONVEYOR MERGERS AAAA

[frosty owl]

They can spawn outside the walls if you go away and come back

[fierce ruin]

you just add more cubes 😄

[magic ivy]

mf made a rubiks cube to contain bees

[fierce ruin]

are you on something?

I thought my sarcasm was obvious.

[magic ivy]

if that "something" is upcoming exam stress but the simultaneous need to procrastinate

then yes, I am on something

[fierce ruin]

ah, good ol' adrenaline

and cortisol

[magic ivy]

more like coffee and ritalin

[fierce ruin]

so yes, you're on something :p

we need stims and boosters in satisfactory 😄

sounds like something Ficsit would do

to increase productivity

[magic ivy]

we have copium inhalers

[fierce ruin]

like: "zeno-bashing does twice the amount of dmg for 12 minutes upon injection"

[magic ivy]

which help you cope for skill issue called "damage"

[fierce ruin]

enemies dying faster doesn't have anything to do with copium

[magic ivy]

AAAAAA
|l |l |l |l |l |l

[fierce ruin]

it's efficiency

[magic ivy]

it just takes 2 bashes to kill a hog, and the "stims" are outclassed by boomsticks

[fierce ruin]

it's just an example

[hollow juniper]

anyone got a design of a 3 into 2 convyer sorter that hanndles more then 780 items? all the ones i find online is just "merge to 3 then split into 2) but these will be around 140 itesm each

i even tried splitting them into 2 3-2 splitters but the conveyers still stutter

i may of figured it out, it was conveyer speeds

[cedar mica]

There is nothing that can handle more then 780. Closest you get, is with a load balancer of some sort

[hollow juniper]

thats what i was planning, but realised i can use the conveyers to get more or less what i wanted

The problem was i was trying to pull too much out at once, using 780 convyers when i wasnt even getting that much from the train

[near lion]

How much should I go nuts with copper building items? Copper Sheet, Wire and Cable. They will be used for building only. I have strong urge to build it with refineries...

[median heath]

Steamed Sheet is a great alt.
Wire you can make from Iron tbh if all you're doing is refilling storage.
Same with Cable.

Save the expensive-but-better Wire/Cable methods for actual production lines.

[near lion]

I was thinking of using those three normal copper nodes near the hole. There isnt anything close to it so I wouldnt mind...

[hollow juniper]

refinerys are alot of work but also very rewarding, if your doing a "long term" factory like nuclear then do refinerys all day long mate, but if your in like the desert and you only need like 20/min then just use a smelter

[near lion]

Ok then, I will not go insane then. Atleast for now.

[hollow juniper]

my nuclear factory needs like 5000 copper ingots per min which is 150 refinery's using 2214 copper, VS 5000 copper, going into 166 smelters

thats the type of thing i mean lol

[near lion]

Yeah Im using about 35 refineries to get 1200 quickwire from single caterium node for my computer/circuit board/high-speed connector factory and Im using whole 1200 items 😄

And then another like 60 refineries to get recycled plastic and rubber...

Its truly meta building 😄

[mental rover]

im super confused, and need help

I need to split 300 into 280/20

[median heath]

1 splitter.