math-and-meta

[oblique hollow]

1 foundation turns mess with the pathing

so definitely take wide turns

[zenith patrol]

Okay. shall I test it extensively later?

[oblique hollow]

no testing really needed. its simply a fact that the vehicles cant make sharp turns due to them having issues following

especially trucks

tractors are no exception

[median heath]

Drive on the dirt. Problem solved.

[zenith patrol]

😶

[trail fjord]

im going into the nuclear energy but idk what is the best option

[oblique hollow]

!wikisearch uranium fuel rod

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=uranium fuel rod

[trail fjord]

i see that plutonium is far way better in tearms of porwer per min, but idk if its worth to craft it because uranium looks grat

[oblique hollow]

plutonium is made from uranium waste

[trail fjord]

i read that

[oblique hollow]

it also makes waste that has to be stored. thats the balance

[trail fjord]

ive read that people just sink the plutonium

thats beacuse to reuse it into power production its to hard or is just innefficient

[oblique hollow]

its becaus they dont like storing waste

[trail fjord]

ahh so the plutonium makes waste that cant be procesed?

[oblique hollow]

it can not be processed.
yes

[trail fjord]

i understand it know...

is it just an alpha thing or will always be like that

[oblique hollow]

unknown

[trail fjord]

sure, i will go just for the uranium

thx for the help

[oblique hollow]

just be careful: recycling uranium waste takes like 1/3 of nuclear power

[trail fjord]

ill place hundreds of batteries first till my production is working

[oblique hollow]

how many MW do you produce

[trail fjord]

for the moment, without any nuclear plant im over 10k

that is starting to not be enought

[oblique hollow]

if its not enough, batteries wont really solve it.

since batteries need unused power to charge

[trail fjord]

yeah but im an electrical engineer and i focused my self on doing a complex grid and i can manage with switches all my production

so i just have to trun off some switches and thats it

just like in real life

[oblique hollow]

load-shedding?

[trail fjord]

yep

[oblique hollow]

isnt load-shedding an emergency solution for a failing grid

[trail fjord]

yeah it could be but this method have big advantages for me

i can sink every specific object just with switches

[frosty owl]

Bruh...
I strongly doubt that

[oblique hollow]

"Hurr durr just underclock"

[frosty owl]

My factory takes 1/6 or less of the power output and I OC a lot

That including uranium processing

[opaque quarry]

why do you say that? 🤔

by my math seems like it takes only ~3%?

err probably depends how big the scale is...

more like 5% at much larger scales? 🤔

so i have a question about the satisfactory tools calculator site, if i take an "always round up approach" on the number of buildings (dont underclock anything) everything should produce at least the same amount in the end, i will just be using more power right?

[wicked tinsel]

yeah

tho it might take a while to start

[wintry aurora]

That sounds like what I did before I realized that you could input decimals to four places in the UI.

[wicked tinsel]

its generally not really a problem to underclock few machines

so why not

[wintry aurora]

Oh wait, number of buildings, not the way you do math.

[opaque quarry]

well i figure with this approach in theory i can produce slightly more and just send the excess off to sinks

[wintry aurora]

But yea, leaving it at 100% should be fine. Some things are more carefully balanced like the recycle loop and other things, so, just be aware of it.

[wicked tinsel]

stuff that has backflow water need to be taken carefully with that approach

and i would advise to only sink using overflow splitters

[opaque quarry]

i heckin hate the fluids in this game so ill probably just come crawling back here when something breaks

[oblique hollow]

fluids be hard

especially 3d

if things like the loading bug stop existing, the fluids here are actually quite easy

[thorn bane]

thats how it works in every factory/simulation game that doesnt have underclocking
also the power gain is very small
the only downside is that you have yellow indicators

[oblique notch]

You won't produce more if your input won't cover it.

But if you over produce at every level, then yes, you can.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I’m really hoping they fix that.
I’m honestly surprised there isn’t a solution like a step at the end of the load that reads all the fluid buffers, compares them to what the load files says there should be and just changes the numbers

[oblique notch]

If anything that's a bandaid for the problem. And if it was the actual problem, it would have been fixed already.

Likely it's to do with how UE serialized the save

[granite zenith]

whats that one website where it does all the math for you?

ty

[median heath]

Bing.

[tired valve]

Anyone have a Update 5 link for turbo blend fuel alt ratios? Trying to figure out max capacity out of one pure oil node at 250% but HOR being needed for fuel, petroleum coke, and turbofuel itself is doing my head in

[median heath]

Turbo Blend is the alt. Confused.

Can always go to Tools and select "Turbofuel".
Set oil to 600
Disable every Turbo recipe besides Turbo Blend set to maximize

Ta-dah.

[tired valve]

Ah thanks that helps I honestly forgot about the tools site vs the sat-calculator page which has a less intuitive planner, well for me at least

[opaque quarry]

This is sort of my first one of the genre! Just wanted to double check my intuition was correct.

[opaque quarry]

Yeah that's sort of my idea, having excess of everything and just sinking it when overflow

[signal nimbus]

So... apparently my transitionary power plant to go from 1200 MW for all of tier 3/4 to 30,000 MW for tier 5/6 is gonna be using HOR > Residual Fuel. Comes out to a bit over 3 GW, so I'm hoping 4.5 GW will be enough to start up at least 1/3 of a 30 GW Diluted Packaged Fuel power plant.

I don't think I've ever seriously considered Residual Fuel before, tbh.

[vapid gorge]

Build a power storage facility for about 150% expected power start up needs. It’ll charge while building your power station. I made a 14gwh power bank for mine XD

[signal nimbus]

I highly considered that, but... something that's saved my bacon several times already is that my current power system is running entirely off of a separate grid. So... continue the chain up. Fuel power runs off of coal power system, etc.

In theory, if the chain goes all the way up, a nuclear power plant that goes awry can be restarted a lot easier.

[wind spade]

in theory your power will never fail so you don't need any of these 😛

[vapid gorge]

Nooooo always have back ups! What happens if a Lizard doggo chomps the wrong cable?

[frosty owl]

Imagine turning nuclear on by providing the factory with just 30m of power storage

[vapid gorge]

Nooooooo

[frosty owl]

Alright, fine, I can do with 20...

[vapid gorge]

Ok, 20mw to kick start it? Not actually that hard, just weird cause you need just increasing steps of power. It would ramp up pretty quickly

[frosty owl]

I used "m" as a short for "minutes" 😅 🤣

[trail fjord]

whats the meta for the alternate of plastic and rubber production??

[wind spade]

alt HOR -> diluted (packaged) fuel -> recycled plastic+rubber loop + residual rubber

[trail fjord]

alt HOR is better than alt polumer resin?

[wind spade]

well depends on your definition of "better", but for "most rubber from oil" way it's the best

[trail fjord]

i see

i will make that for a production o 780 rubber and 780 plstic

i think is the best option

thanks!!

[haughty venture]

is this right

mk1 miner on pure node iron

80 iron plates/min

[warm sphinx]

Ay

3 to one

And it gives 20 a min

[neon bloom]

What this?

[haughty venture]

just photoshop and icons from google

[haughty venture]

wdym

there are 4 constructors

the red is mk1 belt, yellow is mk2

[warm sphinx]

3 iron ignots for 1 plate. Plate build 20 a min

[haughty venture]

yeah

but there are 4 contructors

so it is 80 a min

[warm sphinx]

Smelter is 30 a min so its 60 ore for 20 i believe

[neon bloom]

I realized that this is photoshop, and what is being done

[haughty venture]

60 for 40

[warm sphinx]

9h yes oops

[haughty venture]

iron plates are always 2/3 of the iron ingots

[haughty venture]

automated rods. will this work?
blue squares: splitters
orange squares: mergers
fire: smelter
wrench: contructor
red line: mk1 belt
yellow line: mk2 belt
chest: storage
input: mk1 miner on pure iron

[opaque quarry]

You are missing a line but looks right to me

[warm sphinx]

Yes

[opaque quarry]

Make sure to connect that one constructor :p

[wind spade]

you can also use online tools to do the math for you 😉 https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=BuFy4k2zo08fFImIdGyA

[wicked tinsel]

btw greeny, do you accept feature requests for that tool? :x

[opaque quarry]

theres a channel for it on the tools discord 🙂

[haughty venture]

idk how these work

[haughty venture]

lmao

[wicked tinsel]

set what you want to produce, set how much, set how much resources you want to pull into this (optionally), select what recipes you have (optionally)

[wicked tinsel]

why does everything need a separate discord tho

[opaque quarry]

i am just the messenger 😭

[tropic hawk]

because this one is for the official satisfactory stuff, as well as helping out people. The tools discord is only for help with the tools, bug reports, feature requests, etc. The modding discord is for mod things, and so on.

[swift whale]

hey guys, what steel ingot recipe is the best?

[obtuse elm]

Tested a slow producing low power factory. Aside from trucking in coal for steel its slowly making phase 2 elevator items. Very slowly, but was a proof of concept. Can run the whole thing off one biomass. Whole consumption is under 20mw. Lol. Take 2-5 min for a space elevator part though. But on a dedicated server with a coal plant and the server running even when no players logged on.

Almost all production is set to 10%. Using casted screws it gets 120 screws every 2 minutes.

[wind spade]

Sure

[wicked tinsel]

would it be possible to 1) make the layout persistent (especially changes like dragging), 2) make it possible to mark parts of layout somehow (maybe with double click)

its kinda hard to build stuff from the tool given that layout reloads often, even with stuff like swapping panes

and there is no way to mark stuff that is done already

and third long shoot feature: maybe it could be possible to have "throwaway threshold" for resources, those would be counted with 0 weight basically - its often that you build some base, it has X resources available and you arent going to spend those anywhere else, so it could use worse recipes and dont bother saving them

like "i got 600 iron and copper ores, feel free to use them all" sort of thing

dunno if its feasible

[wind spade]

that's what "input" is for

it's weighted as 0

[wicked tinsel]

ah

👍

[wind spade]

for the other two, they are planned, but a lot of rework still needs to be done to allow for that

[wicked tinsel]

ack

[velvet urchin]

When you are planning a train fed input, do you calculate to what the output product is producing, or to what you limit the belts to? IE: Calculate input of beams as 400 that the steel mill makes, or 780 as a single out from the station.

[median heath]

Neither.

Calculate to what the train can actually move, compare said number to output from pickup site.
If higher, dropoff = pickup
If lower, dropoff = throughput limit

[velvet urchin]

Hmm ok.

In game stopwatch for timing the train trips? 🙃 (#cars * (32 * stack))/time is the correct problem to solve?

[median heath]

No that is not the correct problem to solve.

You have to account for lockout time where nothing on the belts is moving.

Wiki page on freight cars has the formula I wrote for it.

[velvet urchin]

Ah ok. Shoulda gone there first and not reddit it seems. Thanks.

[median heath]

The only guides on reddit I trust are the one McGalleon wrote on pipes and the one I wrote on Signals. 😂

Which is why iirc they are both pinned.

[velvet urchin]

Should probably take into account any wait period if I have the route setup to only load full containers with a max time?

Or that will likely depend on the trip time, to see if it refills before it gets back.

[wicked tinsel]

if train travels with full containers without waiting, you are too slow

but usually you can just add another train and it will work

or more wagons

also, remember that train platform does not provide two belts worth of throughput

depending on how often train arrive, it can get massively lower

[oblique notch]

Does not necessarily provide two belts (pedantic, I know)

[wicked tinsel]

it never provides two belts worth of throughput if we are pedantic

[velvet urchin]

Is how I have most of the stops setup. So they are forced to wait for a full wagon. Is it less efficient that way?

Granted right now I am not using a lot of the resources I am planning to move with the trains. Other than the copper ingots, and it seems to be running pretty frequently.

[oblique notch]

Eh. No, I disagree with that. If you have more than 2 mk5 belts of items being (say 3) and putting them into two ISCs, which then feed I to the train station, with enough trains it should provide two outputs constant.

I think the lock is only on load right?

If I'm incorrect, and the lock is on unload too then, no, it wont

[oblique notch]

Depends entirely on your system, distance, and how much your using at the other end

If your rate of use at the end is < (a full trainsworth/mins it takes to do a round trip) then your factories at the other end will still have 100% uptime. If your rate of use is higher, then you'll have downtime.

Is that inefficient? Eh. Maybe probably not really. Your total number of items produced is going to remain the same regardless, just with downtime your missing out o. potential

Efficiency is just a matter of using up all your potential productivity - ie your machines are all at 100% up time. But you don't loose anything if they aren't, just you don't produce as much as your machines could have

[wicked tinsel]

lockout is always there

[oblique notch]

Not true for the other way around however. If you.produce more parts Than your later stages can support, here you are indeed loosing out on items per minute, because you have items backing up on the belts and not moving.

But If your machines are at yellow indicators, that's only potential

That's like worrying about the pennies on thr Street corner you didn't pick up because you were driving your paycheck to the bank.

[velvet urchin]

I will have to tinker with it more I guess when I get more stations actually moving things around. Still rebuilding infrastructure since I deconstructed nearly everything. I see one platform on my steel mill is draining faster than the other, and the train is sitting there. So might change the fully unloaded bit.

[dusty vale]

so I've done the math on 1 terawatt of nuclear power and I've only seen 1 post on reddit of someone attempting it. Is my math wrong or do most people not try for this?

[wind spade]

most people probably don't need 1TW of power

[dusty vale]

oh i didnt say need

[wind spade]

also the math has been done so many times, especially with online tools being a thing

[dusty vale]

where would the easiest tool to use be located?

[wind spade]

check pins for most of the tools out there

[dusty vale]

thanks

[wind spade]

I'm kinda biased as I made the first one, so that would be my recommendation 🤷‍♂️

but you can use whichever you want

[dusty vale]

has anyone else done it other than the 1 post I've been able to find on reddit?

that you know of?

[wind spade]

wiki mentions it

and like half of the people I know have at least talked about it

if you mean "done it = built it" then I don't know of anyone

[fierce ruin]

Is there even enough uranium in the map for that?

[wind spade]

yes

[dusty vale]

im double checking my math now and it does seem so

there are 3 uranium nodes on the map that output 600/min and you only need 1552/min

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=DPzmdYmgelUJTsaSa2b9

[dusty vale]

ya im using that to double check my own maths

[wind spade]

if you click the link it leads you to the calculations for max nuclear

[dusty vale]

thanks

[wind spade]

or rather, max power generated from nuclear

[dusty vale]

yuck, plutonium

[wind spade]

using all 2100 uranium

[dusty vale]

looking at what someone was talking about just a minute ago trains would slow the process

so the entire network would need to be belted

[wind spade]

no

trains can't slow down process if you build enough throughput

[dusty vale]

i know theres a throughput calc for trains

okay, ill look into that. thanks!

[wind spade]

tbh I'd just build one train and add more if it isn't enough. One belt per one platform with buffers, one train should be enough most of the times

unless you transport stuff from far

[dusty vale]

Thanks! I may seems stupid but I may try this. The phases of the game seemed fairly easy to me so why not put the infrastructure and math to the test

[jovial scroll]

hey

I need some help im setting up a giant fuel factory on north water area

any good tips that I can havE?

[wind spade]

don't max pipes
overproduce fuel a bit
use diluted fuel + alt hor
don't make long pipes
consider if it's worth doing big fuel setup or if it's fine to just do smaller one and do nuclear instead

[tropic pawn]

how many smelters for 4 pure iron?

[wind spade]

depends on clock speed and miner mk

also there are online tools that can help you with calculating that 😉

[tropic pawn]

what do i search for those?

[wind spade]

check pins in this channel or check #welcome

[tropic pawn]

thx

[median heath]

Pure Iron isn't done in Smelters.

Wait... you're missing the word "nodes".
Now I understand. Nevermind.

[haughty venture]

u see the closest tree?

in this area

go to that tree, bring ur chainsaw, and it will never break, but it will give u wood and tree and mycelia. i think it is glitched

[limpid musk]

Curious to how would this be for a concrete factory.

[oblique notch]

i did something like that in an early factory. if the numbers work out then the design wise there is nothing wrong with it.

I generally have found myself drifting away from ultra compact. You always forget something and then you have no room to put it. So ive been moving to doubling the size of my buildings and leaving lots of extra room

but if it works for you, it works for you

[limpid musk]

Great, I just love the look of it aswell, pretty new to the game but its easily expandable so thats something.

[oblique notch]

sure. ish. Getting in there to replace the belts underneath may be a pain in the butt (the feed belt)

[limpid musk]

yeah true thats kind of frusturating.

[oblique notch]

i generally have decided that "modular" or "easily expandabable" just ... isnt for me. everytime I try to do that I either get annoyed with the lots of empty room left over, or when I go back to expand it i just end up ripping the whole thing out anyways 😆

[limpid musk]

Yeah, I am just experimenting how this design works out for me, so far its going good, just wanted the opinion of other people

[fierce ruin]

why? i just set up a 63gigawatt powerplantusing turbofuel, 6 mk2 pipes with oil, and i have another 3 pipes aviable. and i have done absolutely everything you said i shouldnt do, yet everything works perfectly as it is calculated to do

[wind spade]

why what?

[fierce ruin]

overclock every single one of them, also use the ones right outside desert area, you get 8 full mk2 pipes from that, use 6 of them the produce fuel, 10 refineries on each pipe to give fuel, then 17 refineries on each line to produce turbofuel, then 70 fuel gens on each line, set everything in sections, 10x7
take a look in #screenshots from me alittlebit up and youll see exactly what im telling here.
just put flooring all over the place or however you want it, but you need quite large space for this big, but this setup produces 63 gigawatts tho

[fierce ruin]

why not max pipes? why not long pipes? why diluted fuel? why even bother with nuclear when you can get 94500MW from northern oil fields alone with enough plastic and rubber to supply a megafactory

[thorn bane]

because building 10 nuclear power plants is faster than 166 fuel gens (and uses alot less resources)

[wind spade]

why not max pipes
mk2 pipes have issues transporting 600m3 of fluid, especially when long
why not long pipes
see above, also transporting fluid is pain, build factory where the fluids are
why bother with nuclear
because it's just so much more resource efficient, allows you to use resource that you don't need for anything else (uranium) and saves you oil for plastic and rubber. Not to mention that nuclear is way smaller and produces way more per gen
why diluted fuel
most resource efficient fuel recipe 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

resources? ohh you mean the stuff that automaticly produce unlimited supply of, also building stuff is waaayyy to cheap, no really, my megafactory can produce 200 fuel gens in 1 hour. its should have been 10 hours for one

[wind spade]

I mean the stuff that you have a limited supply of per minute

[median heath]

Pipelines work fine if you make them out of mk1s.
Nuclear is a personal choice, so the why/why not will be player-specific.
Also yes, if doing fuel in large volumes... not doing Diluted is just stupidity.

[wind spade]

building stuff takes time, which is most valuable resource for most people. Building 150 gens vs building 10 nuclear plants... my choice is obvious

[fierce ruin]

build storage, let pc run when sleeping = unlimited resources.
i can build 3-4 full megafactories from scratch with the resources i have in storage
and still all the machinery get plenty of resources aswell

[thorn bane]

thats like saying use mk3 belts cause mk5s have throughput issues

[wind spade]

I mean the resources needed to power the generators

[fierce ruin]

finishing the game in 30 hours or 500 hours, the choice is obvious to me

[wind spade]

oil for example

[fierce ruin]

there is plenty of oil tho

[wind spade]

not when you do large productions

[median heath]

You'll see I never say "use mk1s"
I merely stated mk1s work.
🙃

[thorn bane]

.............

[wind spade]

a lot of people have run out of oil, so why not save on oil from start, so that you don't have to rebuild later?

[median heath]

Don't ".........." me just because you failed at a call-out.

[wind spade]

you don't need large power plant to finish the game 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

True, you can finish the game on Coal if you want.

Also different people are going to define "finish the game" in different ways.

[fierce ruin]

yeah you dont need alot fo the things in the game but the point was that players here dont spend 30 hours to do quick run, have you seen screenshot, people spend hundreds of hours building factories all over the map not to mention linking it all up with train, yet you try to tell me people dont have time to build 420 fuel gens?

[thorn bane]

"finish the game" is when i inevitably drop below 30 fps

[thorn bane]

by that same logic you can also just build 800 coal gens

[median heath]

1600 Biomass Burners

[fierce ruin]

my game have laggy moments, down into 20s fps. but normally it stays in the 80-90 fps range. (laptop, weak cpu for the game tho, alot of background tasks aswell, getting desktop next week)

[fierce ruin]

yeah, people do that too

[wind spade]

I'm trying to tell you that they would rather build nuclear because it's faster and uses less resources, leaving more resources and time for actual production

[median heath]

Actually would you even need this many? Could do even less generators and just use switches to dictate which part of production is drawing power.

[thorn bane]

the argument to use nuclear is exactly the same as why you do fuel over coal
its makes more power but is more complex
exactly the same logic

[fierce ruin]

ohh im gonna build nuclear too, but any survival game i play im about building massivly and using all resources and maximising everything, so when i play im not about just managing with a couple, i do it massivly and satisfying way

im probably gonna break 100gigawatt when im done, if not more

[wind spade]

especially when you want to maximise production, you should go with nuclear

[fierce ruin]

have never built nuclear powerplant before, but i had to redo my megafactory so just getting that back up running then i will start on it

[wind spade]

max nuclear is still ~450 nuclear plants

[thorn bane]

not doing unclear is like using mk4 belts cause "you dont really need mk5s"

[fierce ruin]

but im in no rush, i rather have everything massive and good before jumping on the next move then adapting to it and expanding, my factory before wasnt expandable but now im building it so that everything is expandable

450 nuclear plants would be 135 gigawatts, that means i will get about 226 gigawatt when im done 😄

[wind spade]

450 nuclear plants is 1.12 terrawats

[fierce ruin]

arent they 300MW per?

[wind spade]

2500

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/buildings/nuclear-power-plant

[fierce ruin]

ohh yeah then that alot bigger jump, i seem to remember it was 300

[median heath]

I don't ever remember them being that low.

[wind spade]

they never were

[fierce ruin]

yeah i gotta remember wrong or confuse with something else then 😛

[median heath]

Nothing in their change logs indicates they were ever NOT 2500.

[fierce ruin]

yeah 2500 per is a good number

[vapid gorge]

I’m running a very tight oil budget on my world XD

[jovial scroll]

1.im just doing reg fuel

also why overclock?

[vapid gorge]

I assume they mean overclock the extractors so you get the most resource per minute

[river coral]

Hello! I am building a new iron factory and to support it I need 16 maxed out mrk 5 belts of raw iron to support it. Is there enough in the world to do that?

[runic anvil]

Yep for sure there should be.. I would use trains to transport them to one are for all your processing

[runic anvil]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

Use the map on that website to find the best area to do so for you.. also you can get alot more iron if you use the alt recipe from the Refineries (35 ore -> 65 ingots)

[river coral]

Thats the one I am using!

When I am done that factory I should be producing 22,880 iron ingots/min

[runic anvil]

Yep just did the math and that it

[river coral]

Hey another question! What happens with the mrk 3 miners? They can generate 1200 ore per min overclocked but they only have 1 output!

How does that work?

[runic anvil]

Yeah unfortunately there's no way (without mods) to use them at 1200 ore per min so it's best to use them at 780 per min since mk5 is the highest you can go

So don't overclock all the way to save power

And I think you can save a power shard too that way

[vapid gorge]

North east desert has lots of iron. You can easily pool 16 mk5s out of it.

[river coral]

Ah alright. its going to be annoying once mrk6 comes out tbh!

[vapid gorge]

You could also use the Pure Iron recipe and get almost 2x the iron

[river coral]

I am!

I am using 352 refineries!

[vapid gorge]

Seeming unlikely there’ll be mk6 at this point

[river coral]

really? is it cause they don't want to or don't know how to code 1200 items per min without lagging the game?

[runic anvil]

Oh they gonna add mk6? Huzzah

[vapid gorge]

There’s also throttling problems with belts. Belt to belt connections sometimes make a tiny stutter so you won’t get 780 speed without trickery on the player part

[river coral]

Ah thats fair!

[runic anvil]

I really wouldn't mind if they even covered up the whole belt to reduce the stutters and such

[vapid gorge]

A lot of people like seeing it move and it’s the easiest way to make sure your system is working

[river coral]

Ya I agree with cobalt their

So they will most likely place another entrance to the mark 3 miner?

[vapid gorge]

I idea! They like keeping new stuff secret until just before release

[runic anvil]

Yeah I was sorta thinking once you put it through a splitter you can have it go from 1200 to 600 and you can see your items from their

[river coral]

They did already release thats what they are kinda doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m_vqCavleY

[vapid gorge]

I think it’s best to just look at pure nodes like you’re still getting that extra 180 per minute AND spend less power on it

[river coral]

True thats fair!

[vapid gorge]

An easier ‘solution’ would be to reduce the amount pure nodes give you XD

[river coral]

true XD

[runic anvil]

Lol hopefully not

Tbh the mk3 miners design sorta have space for the second output too so mabye its something the devs are also thinking about

But honestly 780 per min is more than enough imo

[river coral]

TRUE!

Caps

[oblique notch]

I'm guessing they haven't done anything about it because the percentage of players that start approaching tbr total world cap of ore is rather small (loud vocal minorities like a discord server non withstanding

So in essence, it's a very low priority

[frosty owl]

The FIRST person I ever see to comment that when hearing about the "max throughout bug"

[wind spade]

they would still need to resolve the priority issue with multiple outputs first

[frosty owl]

Split 50/50
Like how (I heard) it happens if you connect the miner's storage directly to a splitter's in order to get 1200 out

@wise grove should be able to say more

[wind spade]

you can't connect splitters directly, can you?

[wise grove]

by savegame editing, yes

[wind spade]

and yeah, 50/50 split would be best, but that's not how it behaves now (see ISC 😛 )

[wise grove]

I already suggested on the Q&A site to make an attachment for the miner mk3, that effectively is a 1in-2out splitter

and connects directly to the output of the miner without any limiting belt between them

[frosty owl]

(see splitter 😆)

[wind spade]

I know, but assuming the code for buildings with outputs is at least partially shared, then they need to resolve it 😛

(splitter has different code for sure 😉 )

[frosty owl]

That's the point. Use buildings' output coding (ISC behaviour) or splitters'

(Assuming the latter can replace the first, given evidence with save-editing)

[wise grove]

slamming a second output on the miner makes distribution of items to outputs unpredictable, same as with the ISC. Attaching a splitter to the miner makes it predictable (as in balanced). Tho, given the timing, simply putting a second output on the miner should™️ be balanced as well, unless ores are backed up in the miner

[river coral]

is there a way to use the satisfactory calculator to calculate how much of a resource you can generate with a specific output? For example I will be generating 2000 Uranium Waste/min and I want to know how many Plutonium fuel rods I can make with that?

[frosty owl]

Use the "maximize" function instead of "items/min"
Of course, this will result in the maximum possible amount of plutonium rods, so you can work from there to see what alts you will or will not use (disable one alt, see what changes and so on)

[main heath]

mfs making plutonium rods

bruh how do i make a qlimunium

railway

[frosty owl]

That's #old-questions-and-help material and you just select the rail bulding and... Build it

[river coral]

where is the maximize section? (sorry if its obvious but I'm dumb sometimes!)

[main heath]

yea i know but the lumina solution output is too far

like alo

in the swamps

[frosty owl]

When you select what items to plan for (eg: plutonium fuel rods), you can select either an amount/min or just to maximize

[main heath]

and the coal output is in the woods

i had to make a railway from the swamps to the forest leading to the main desert

[frosty owl]

So what's your question about?

[main heath]

is there any way to make it easier

i am just trying to make batteries so i can use the drones

[frosty owl]

Is "qlimunium" an actual thing or a typo?

[main heath]

Aluminum*

💀

[frosty owl]

So you want a cleaner railway for your aluminum factory?

[main heath]

exactly

i don't need to mention the mobs in the way

my railroad passes by a giant spider nest

[frosty owl]

Showing how the railway currently is is the only way for people to start suggesting how to make it better (unless you give a clear enough description)

Screenshots from SCIM can work too

[main heath]

💀

aight 👍🏻

[frosty owl]

Example of clearer description:
When asking "can I make it easier?", add what makes it hard for you 😉

[main heath]

the bugs

[median heath]

Solution:

Make aluminium without coal.

[frosty owl]

So the hostiles make the bulding hard?

[main heath]

for example when my train touches water the second i get off of it i can't open my inventory

[river coral]

Sorry to ask but where is that? I add the rods, but no option of the sort pops up! I am probably missing something, but I really can't find it!

[main heath]

how

crash sites

[median heath]

Alt recipe that uses Coke??

[frosty owl]

And that's solved by NOT letting trains touch water (technically, they should power down, but apparently their inertia brought them out of the water and they could continue the route)

[main heath]

they haven't gave me an alt one without the coke

[median heath]

Then go find it.

[main heath]

oh

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

It's on the right side of the reclangle showing "plutonium rods: X/min". A drop down menu

[main heath]

bruh

[median heath]

Setting up a permanent factory before having all the alts you want/need for said factory is...
Just why?

[main heath]

aight

thanks for help i appreciate it

[frosty owl]

You're welcome~

[river coral]

Thats a different program than I was using!

[river coral]

Thanks so much!

[frosty owl]

I assumed you were using SFTools 🤦‍♂️ 😅

Btw, use the U5 version, not the one I'm using in the screen (U4)

[river coral]

Ya I am! I was using the satisfactory calculator!

I will need 26155.012 mw XD

[frosty owl]

That's good for the map, but SFTools has much better planning tools (though some still prefer SCIM's graphics)

[river coral]

thanks!

Bruh if i fully maximized plutonium fuel rods I would generate 1,333,325 mw

533.33 plutonium waste per min

[thorn bane]

that sounds wrong
how did you get that number?

[keen tundra]

I have only 130 MW with only Nuclear Power Planta

[thorn bane]

without fertile its 22.4 plutonium and 50.4 uranium for 1.19TW
with fertile (max plutonium) its 30.54 plutonium and 22.91 uranium for 1.05TW
that would be 305 waste/min
https://www.satisfactory-planner.net/?f=v3_U5,7fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff7ffffff,plutonium_fuel_rod:maximize:20,,70380:100:0|28860:243:0|52860:133:0|30900:227:0|11040:637:0|10500:670:0|6840:1028:0|11700:601:0|9780:719:0|2100:3351:0|12000:586:0|0:1:1,0,1:0:0:0

[fallow plover]

link is broken

[proven prawn]

I wish you the best of luck finding a way to use all of that power

[royal adder]

Hey, new player here. This may sound like a silly question, but has anyone gone out of their way yet to make a graph for "level of complexity" yet? Like something which shows how many levels of industry are required to produce certain parts? I've been sketching one out and wondering if that exists yet.

[wind spade]

something like that is almost impossible due to the existence of alternate recipes

[royal adder]

Fair. But I think that doing it with default recipes would still be a useful tool for newer players

[wind spade]

even with default recipes there's places where there are multiple recipes to make the same item

I think much useful for new players is wiki with list of usages for given resource (or ingame codex, or some other online tool like https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items)

there have been some attempts, but even for previous updates (which had much less recipes), it's already super complicated and not really useful, like this one: (quick google search)

[royal adder]

Oh Christ. It's good to know someone has already tried. I definitely agree that having a a codex of usages for an item are really handy, though I wish such a feature were available in game. I grapple frequently with visualizing where things are going and what I need in my factory. Some manner of level of complexity graph is something I think would be really neat, but as you've shown, is difficult to make visually appealing, which would be the whole goal

[wind spade]

there is codex in the game iirc

[fierce ruin]

this photo overwhelms me

[royal adder]

The codex in game tells you ingredients necessary for a recipe, but it doesn't go the other way I think, which is just as (if not more) useful

[fierce ruin]

that's cool

[dark star]

is there way to make the calculator/visualisation from Greeny's tools to integrate uranium to rods to waste to plutonium rods into one overview?

[oblique hollow]

it doesnt do rods to waste, you can manually enter waste as an input but not really any production lines that end in waste

[wind spade]

soon™️

[frosty owl]

"Just add power recipes"

[wind spade]

power doesn't have recipes 🤔

[frosty owl]

... Doesn't it...?

[wind spade]

no

[frosty owl]

2 fuel in, 150 MW out

[wind spade]

power plants have list of available fuel and fuel has energy value

[frosty owl]

Yeah, like a constructor has different recipes

[wind spade]

constructor has a recipe that's in game data

power plant doesn't

[frosty owl]

True

[frosty owl]

But not what I meant

It's a "just add" because I know you'd have to make them yourself

[wind spade]

it's not even just that

people don't realise how many issues would "adding a fake power recipes" bring

and how much work it would be to make this "temporary solution" work

[frosty owl]

I realize (a bit). That's why I was being sarcastic

[void path]

Anyone know any good sites or anything for satisfactory flowcharts?

[wind spade]

Check pins

[void path]

hmmmm thank you

[hidden roost]

im looking at the wiki and it seems that 1 constructor for uranium fuel rods can power 2 nuclear reactors?

[versed violet]

yes, but if you want to run the nuclear reactors at 250%, you will need 1 manufacturer per reactor.

[hidden roost]

k

[vapid gorge]

Eh, I'm overclocking everything so... 700gw probably?

[vapid gorge]

Have you used the satisfactory calculator tool yet?

[royal adder]

I have! I like it, but it but it like other resources lacks the visual clarity I was aiming for

[proven prawn]

satisfactorytools is decent enough for many production planning, though i wish it had more generalized layout plans.

[signal nimbus]

...so... I'm in the camp of Notepad for factory planning...

[signal nimbus]

@distant crypt You say that now. Wait until you need Heavy Modular Frames to scrape together a fuel power plant because your coal plant won't cover it, and it's either a temporary coal setup or starting a more permanent fuel setup that you won't have to take down.

And computers.

[distant crypt]

Maybe. But I have a pretty expandable coal power plant area. 4 normal coal nodes

[signal nimbus]

Take my advice and overclock all four. 16 Coal plants wasn't enough to cover even the most basic of temporary plastic/rubber setups with the rest of the factory.

I think 32 would be fine, though.

[distant crypt]

I plan on overclocking them

[signal nimbus]

Long as you don't go crazy. K, cool. Should be fine, then.

[distant crypt]

ye. once I get mk4 belts I'll be able to go nuts

mk3*

[signal nimbus]

No, you were right the first time. Mk 4, along with Tier 2 miners.

Also, I think I know the exact spot you're building. Great place, don't forget about the pure node up the hill.

[distant crypt]

I won't have mk4 for a little bit

[signal nimbus]

Mk 4 means you can 200% overclock pure nodes for a full 480 belt. That's kinda my point of going crazy.

[distant crypt]

I'll probably be onto fuel plants before that

gtg tho. laters

[wind spade]

You don't need to overclock them right now, you can wait until you need more power 🤷

[signal nimbus]

Not disagreeing there, that's absolutely true. I'd probably still do it anyway because once I build this power, I'm not going back to double it.

[jovial scroll]

im working on a giant power plant, how would you guys set up your production lines for doing dilulted fuel and such? this is my first huge project

[wind spade]

alt HOR -> diluted fuel -> fuel gens

though I wouldn't overdo fuel gens, nuclear is just way better, so I'd just build enough fuel to get me to nuclear

[jovial scroll]

ik, im just getting enough to last me a while while I work on that, but I mean more of the setup

I already had that planned but I have no idea how to set it up

[wind spade]

what did you plan then, if you didn't plan the setup?

[jovial scroll]

👀 I just did the math

I have no idea how the factory to look, any good places to look to help me?

[wind spade]

that's really up to you lol

[jovial scroll]

with there being a bit of pipes I dont want it to look like a total mess

[jovial scroll]

👀 any good designs or that kinda thing I can look at though?

since this is my litteral first time doing this

[wind spade]

I mean... nobody will help you with visual side, that's really up to your likings. For connecting machines and stuff, I'd just follow the plan you have and hook them up in that way 🤷‍♂️

[jovial scroll]

🤔 is there any good youtubers that has done a semi clean version of this or naww

[wind spade]

no idea, I don't really watch youtubers (or play the game really)

[jovial scroll]

why are you here then lol

[wind spade]

idk, maybe it's that I spent like 2000 hours making tools for the game 🤔

[jovial scroll]

lol

[opaque quarry]

so i need to add a VIP, reading how it works it says it will allow lower pipe to flow freely while blocking the upper ones (unless the output allows more flow)

[oblique hollow]

Uh yes thats what a VIP does

[opaque quarry]

i dont really understand what the part in parenthesis means

actually will a vip even work man i hate liquid in this game

i have more water production than needed to begin with and everything is sorta connected

if i add a VIP to this pipe on the right will it work as intended?

[open tapir]

Vip is a valve ?

[opaque quarry]

maybe if i add valves to limit this secrtion everyhtin will worl

[open tapir]

Fluids flow in every possible direction

So putting a valve on the pipes comming from the pump to the reactors would prevent back flow.

[opaque quarry]

can anyone confirm if this will work as a VIP so the bottom pipes will never get stopped? does it matter that the output ends up going higher or that the top input actually starts lower than the bottom input which i want to not get stopped? (the red are valves)

[frosty owl]

It could work. But VIPs require you to stick to the design when making one as they can easily fail if not bult perfectly.

So if you notice unexpected behaviors, I would suggest first making it a "perfect" VIP: the pipe segments involved shouldn't have ANY bends and there should be at least a pump on the lower pipe (before VIP)

And no, trying to achieve the same result with valves is not the same. That's the whole point of making a VIP ^^

[opaque quarry]

well the pic i found said you could replace it with a valve

[oblique hollow]

If its short enough

But using a pump may be required if they start acting up

[frosty owl]

IS required IF they act up for sure. The design in picture works flawlessly, one just has to replicate exactly... If they don't, issues aren't assured, but to be expected

Eg: I had a VIP not work because it had a pump BEFORE the buffer that fed the priority pipe. Moving the pump after the buffer, between the buffer and the VIP (where I just had a valve before) fixed it

[oblique hollow]

Pump before buffer just means you wait for buffer to build up pressure, wasting time

And also classic buffer sloshing

[frosty owl]

Pump was needed (somewhere before) to fill up the buffer. Then it just works as expected after the buffer is at 1/4 or whatever and there's no sloshing thanks to the valve/pump I put after it

Funfact: WHY would one NEED to even fill the buffer, considering the fluid shouldn't stop thanks to the VIP?
This can be useful to check if the VIP is working or not. Without a pump, the buffer might not fill completely while the machines behind back up on fluid already, giving the impression (if one checked just the buffer) that the VIP is working correctly since the buffer isn't filling up

[stuck iron]

Notice from the VIP manual that both input lines are on the same level coming into the VIP. This is important to make it function properly. Your low priority line comes in from above already. Wouldn't be surprised if this didn't work as intended.

[oblique hollow]

I actually tested that

The level where fluids come from shouldn't matter

As long as one connects to the bottom and one to the top input, the one connected to the bottom input takes priority

[dull shard]

mk5 can't handle 780/m ?

[wind spade]

it can, if it's short enough

[summer fox]

will trains/transport in general will always lower input between bases? is there a way to smooth it out

[oblique hollow]

the industrial containers can buffer part of it

if you want high numbers, you need more freight cars / trucks, naturally

[dull shard]

Really ?

[wind spade]

yes

[frosty owl]

Only up to a single belt segment. Adding other belt segments makes items (slightly) back up, the more segments the more the backing up. This affects all belts at full capacity

[opaque quarry]

What if you merge a super long single belt

[frosty owl]

The game may hard-lock

Assuming you mean merging it into a single belt segment

[opaque quarry]

O.O

I've been merging all my belts to 1 segment once I learned how

(none super long yet though)

[frosty owl]

I suspect their lenght can be an issue, rather than the number of belts, but I've seen too few examples to know.
Please let me know if you happen to have any issues ^^

[opaque quarry]

It's interesting if it could cause problems, my assumption was the less seems the less points it would have to calculate

[frosty owl]

The game apparently can't handle very long belt segments.
Visual artifacts should probably be expected before the game completely gives up, but that's just my speculation

[vapid jolt]

i dunno... i've had some very long belts

[wind spade]

yeah, they just lose max throughput

[oblique notch]

But not actually any lost items, it's worth noting.

Also, ice only seen this bug ever replicated with containers as the source. I'm curious if we could do it with some machines outputing enough to fill a belt.

Because I'm starting to wonder if it's due to the fact that a container dumps everything as fast as it can, and then backup lag occurs - versus a bunch of machines, norn of which output at full belt capacity, getting merged together to full max belt may not trigger the bug.

[green dust]

okay, today I discovered the "overflow" splitter mode

game changer

[hidden roost]

Ye, once i found that it definitely improved my awesome points per minute

[sacred pilot]

Alright, question. I'm most of the way through a nuclear setup designed to sink all the uranium waste into plutonium rods. I'm pretty confident I've got all the math right, and I'm most of the way through setting up the system. The one nut I can't quite crack... what do I do with the water coming from the fertile uranium system? It's late in the production line, will only turn on AFTER the nuclear plants are running, and produces a ton of water. Is there a particularly efficient/easy water sink I can set up, maybe just pure iron ingots?

[weak plinth]

wet concrete is pretty good for that

[sacred pilot]

this has resulted in a small amount of jank under the hood and two small pipes inside my logistics layer, but will solve the problem. Thank you!

[frosty owl]

It seems obvious to me, but the source providing items is irrelevant. As long as you try to fill a belt at max capacity, the issue can show up. This means items backing up in:
-MK3 miner on pure node
-ISC with 2 inputs and 2 outputs (assuming a station unloads in the ISC at 780x2 thanks to having single belts segments)
-Merger whose output should be 780/min (and not more, so no back-up should happen!)
.. And so on

[frosty owl]

I like to feed that water to whatever uses water close by already. For me, that was the sulphuric acid and nitric acid refineries, adding some extracted water to top off the flow (see VIP in the piping manual)

BTW, why are you using fertile uranium? It's quite rare to see ^^

[vapid gorge]

Well the water in fertile uranium is the exact amount you need to make sulf acit and nitric acid so you could just have it feeding itself with a tiny water pump to cover water loss

[wind spade]

apparently not a lot of other people do 🤔 https://github.com/greeny/SatisfactoryTools/issues/100#issuecomment-1027687525

[frosty owl]

And that's why we're thought to make software so that it's idiot proof

[oblique hollow]

Add a more obvious disclaimer for that somewhere?

[wind spade]

the red box "not all features implemented yet" isn't enough I guess 🤔

[oblique hollow]

I guess its too ambiguous

[wicked tinsel]

btw greeny

[oblique hollow]

I mean you CAN calculate nuclear, so thats implemented

[wicked tinsel]

looked into those resources with zero weight

you cant actually specify raw resources as input unfortunately

[oblique hollow]

For? The calc?

[wicked tinsel]

ye

[oblique hollow]

Cause raw resources got their own tab

The map limits

[wicked tinsel]

the problem is that it tries to minimize the resource usage overall

which is usually pointless as you got fixed amount of resources that can just be wasted

=> there may be no need to use more efficient recipes for example

[oblique hollow]

Choose amount of ore you can waste > maximize?

Maximize IS pretty wasteful

[wicked tinsel]

but only some of resources are wastable

for example: i make a factory, it sits on top of two bauxite nodes and has a dedicated caterium node

[oblique hollow]

The biggest waste is technically resource > sink

[wicked tinsel]

those wont be used for anything, so there is no value in using for example pure caterium ingot

[oblique hollow]

To be fair, consulting a factory calc and asking it how to be wasteful seems like a counter-intuitive thing 😆

[wicked tinsel]

but thats exactly how the game works

you dont build factories in void, they usually stand near something

=> that something isnt likely to be partly exported to something else

sitting on top of iron node? maybe base iron recipe is good enough

sure it sux in ratio but you got free input so why not

[oblique hollow]

Thats up to you to decide though. A better alternative would probably be the ability to disallow alts based on categories

[wind spade]

this was a limit back then when tool was getting confused if it had raw resources and input both specified. I've changed the algorithm since so it should no longer be the case. I'll test if it works correctly and if yes, I can re-enable them

[oblique hollow]

Doesnt that still use the most efficient recipe though?

[wind spade]

it does 🤔

(and maximise will eventually either)

[oblique hollow]

You would need to hop into the recipe tab and disable "the good ones"

[wind spade]

I thought Amelek's point was to have resources with zero weight, not "waste resources"

[oblique hollow]

Zero weight means "waste-able"

No need to use efficient recipes

[wicked tinsel]

btw greeny

there is a bug with silica recipe i think

[wind spade]

zero weight means that those resources will be used even if it's rare resource that otherwise won't be used due to it being technically inefficient, which I thought was the original feature request

[wicked tinsel]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=5pkwmLCeF4BjboINuIHC take this

it uses silica recipe

[oblique hollow]

Yeah it will use the resource but what recipe will it use for them?

[wicked tinsel]

i tried to swap it to cheap silica

but if you disable the base silica recipe, it completely explodes

[thorn bane]

maximize disclaimer when

[oblique hollow]

Yea thats maximize at work

[wind spade]

whatever is the "most efficient". It still tries to minimise usage if possible, so even for 0 weight resources, it would rather use 10 than 20 of them. But using 1000 of them is still better than 1 raw resource that has nonzero weight

[oblique hollow]

Amelek's point was "waste-ability" as in "no need to be efficient with it" too

So in this case its actually negative weight

Or something

[wind spade]

I assume that could be solved by optimising for least machines/power 🤔

[wicked tinsel]

^

[wind spade]

if you just want to get rid of something

[thorn bane]

so what water is right now

[wind spade]

I would look into it but I'm currently designing a portal coop chamber 🤔

p r i o r i t i e s

re: silica
yeah most likely maximise

[oblique hollow]

It only doesnt care about water because other resources have higher weight. But 0 resources are basically equivalent to water

[wicked tinsel]

but you can solve this without byproducts by using cheap silca instead of silca in that one spot, it just doesn't tries to and defaults to needless results

[oblique hollow]

It doesnt care about silica efficiency in maximize, is the point

[wind spade]

maximise just does "any path that takes me to max result"

[thorn bane]

btw alumina solution is actually less buildings than cheap silica
it just has a fluid byproduct xd

[oblique hollow]

Bottleneck is bottleneck

Maximizing uranium should show a bottleneck in either sulfur or uranium

Thus it doesnt care how many other resources it uses

[wind spade]

yeah I don't even need to be here

[oblique hollow]

Yes hello i am greeny i make calc tool

Maximize not efficient

[wind spade]

please ask all other questions to my spokespersons

[wicked tinsel]

😄

[oblique hollow]

If you want it to care about silica efficiency, take the value of uranium fuel rods or whatever it outputs when you maximize and enter it as a normal desired value

At least i THINK it tries to be more conservative that way

[wind spade]

yeah, in that case it actually does optimise for weighted raw resources

[oblique hollow]

Right. Behold, i am Greeny2

[wind spade]

whether or not the weights are what you need is another question 😄

[thorn bane]

why isnt that automated

[wind spade]

lazy coder something something

[oblique hollow]

#BlameSimon

[wind spade]

[oblique hollow]

You could do that for efficient maximize, run maximize once and then copy the output value into normal calc

Barely any code needed, just need to run it twice

[thorn bane]

yeah its easy
just like adding nuclear power plants

[wind spade]

yeah that's kinda the plan, however I want to mix it with "multiple maximise actually maximise" feature

since both require me to rewrite same part of the code

[tidal yacht]

do you guys prefer the pure ingot variants for iron and copper and caterium ingots or not? (More ingots per ore vs more power usage)

[wind spade]

resources are technically limited and you can run out, power is not (well, technically it is, but you won't run out of power really)

[tidal yacht]

k, cause in the early / mid game the pure ingot variants use kind of a lot of power (for coal plant stage of the game)

[oblique hollow]

Pure ingots if im close enough to water. If i have other ore to spare i use the alloys / fused recipes

[tidal yacht]

I see

[thorn bane]

huh?
they are the same

power costs resources

[wind spade]

yeah but some shit ones like uranium

[thorn bane]

isnt 100% resource usage 100% power usage roughly?

[wind spade]

I don't think you can get close to 100% power usage (if we count all power sources)

my guess is like 80% uranium power used

would have to check with my friendly tool (and actually update it to do power 🤔 )

[thorn bane]

532387.498 MW for max awesome points
50.4 u rods is 630000MW
84%

ye guess youre right

well +miners/water

[wind spade]

uranium power for me is uranium + plutonium, but sure

(also is that max awesome points without production of uranium rods?)

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=yF3i5rEC6DlFbEWrT00c
thats sinking the plutonium rods

[wind spade]

"maximise"

[thorn bane]

"Limestone is not mined fully too. Impure nodes are not mined. Mining and sinking it is not worth the power (see next note)"

[wind spade]

found the best sink stuffs

apparently nitrogen is just pointless and doesn't give any advantage to use all of it

[thorn bane]

is that accounting for miner power on impure nodes

wait thats without power

[wind spade]

yeah

was just search of old images on the discord

[median heath]

Pure Copper yes, Iron is situational.

[oblique hollow]

Copper Alloy

Situational in the sense that "yes, you need no water, but you also get less"

Aka im too lazy to use refineries and am fine with receiving less

[tidal yacht]

I see

[oblique hollow]

Btw i think this is meta enough to share: compacted coal seems to be an actual thing, a coal-based acid catalyst

Also, Satisfactory

[median heath]

Fair, but unlike real life we don't burn it for MW in this game 😉

[oblique hollow]

Oh you arent supposed to, its a terrible idea actually

Which is why it seems to be power negative

Its a catalyst. You add it to make good fuel. Though for some reason we just dissolve it into the fuel

[median heath]

Correlation being Turbo Fuel, but we don't even use it for that once you get Turbo Blend 😂

[oblique hollow]

Specifically, it seems to be a sulfonated carbon catalyst

So coke + sulfur works too

[median heath]

But I'm guessing Pepsi + Sulfur has worse results?

😉

[oblique hollow]

Why would you use Pepsi

Use Vodka instead

[frosty owl]

Based on this, even if one DIDN'T WANT to use plutonium, leaving ~16% uranium for Fertile Uranium can yeld some more points ^^

[vapid gorge]

Yeah entirely dependent on your situation. I like planning factory hubs to build up a high a tier of part as possible so I search the map for the relavent nodes close to each other. Often times doubling your copper or iron at a location with pure recipes means you don't have to have long import logistics and can build locally.

[sacred pilot]

Two people asked but I’ll respond once 🙂

I don’t want to feed the water back into the system because after a bit of testing I realized how easy it is for that to cause a major malfunction if something goes wrong. And if that happens, waste backs up. I’d rather hedge and make sure no matter what if something fucks up the waste will sink before the system gives up.

As for fertile uranium, it’s because it uses slightly less uranium, and I realized at the end of doing all my math that because I’d built my whole prep area and pulled in resources already, I was using the impure node so only had 300 to work with. It took greeny’s tool and a lot of time to find a balanced solution that ran a plant with sinking plutonium rods for under 300 uranium

I think, anyway. There was SOMETHING I’d screwed up on paper that I wasn’t feeding into the system in enough quantity to do the regular recipe. It’s a complex build….

[wind spade]

soon™️

[unkempt escarp]

hello, what is the meta for train now ? i have reload my game and i dont understand how to solve my colision problem.
all my exchanges are like that

[median heath]

Have you read Signal Logic Rules?

[unkempt escarp]

where is it ? 🥲

[median heath]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/qgy9z0/signal_logic_rules/

[wind spade]

simple solution:

• put path signals on entry
• put block signals on exit

and then block signals on your normal track

[median heath]

Oversimplification... but if you don't want to even attempt more advanced tactics, yes, just do that.

[wind spade]

I mean most of the times you don't need more throughput and it's fine like that. And in cases you need more throughput, nothing you can do with signals will help you more than rebuilding the junction to a non-crossing one

[median heath]

Yeah, signals will fix that in a jiffy.

[unkempt escarp]

in fact I have the impression that it's my rail system that is obsolete now, I don't really have trains on the same rails, it's just the crossing of rails that is a problem.

currently I have two directions, one for the outward journey and the other for the return journey

the explanation about the signals is hard to understand, especially with the translation

[wind spade]

yeah, just go with the simple solution 😉

• put path signals on entry
• put block signals on exit

[unkempt escarp]

yes but it means only one rail?

[wind spade]

no

red = path, blue = block
(assumes right hand traffic)

[unkempt escarp]

[median heath]

Bidirectional rails are terrible, so your current intent to have rails being one-way is good.

[oblique hollow]

your rails are already one-directional, just place signals like greeny showed and its all good

and pay attention to the direction of the signals

[spice depot]

Is there a way I can calculate how many train and/or train cars I need to fulfill a certain amount of a resource so I have an efficient factory?

[wind spade]

there is a way, but usually it's just "connect each belt to one platform with buffer, run one train, if it isn't enough, run more"

(buffer being industrial storage container connected with both belts to the station)

[median heath]

One belt per platform?? 🤮

[wind spade]

yes, why not? 🤔

[median heath]

Choosing to do 780 per car instead of 1200-1300 because.....??

[wind spade]

because people most of the times have full belts and it's easier to just hook one belt to each platform rather than doing magic splitting and hoping it works

[median heath]

Wiki pages on trains should have everything you need.

[median heath]

Why does the way people do it not seem to include the actual amount of items by this description?

[wind spade]

also on the other end it would be another ISC buffer with two outputs, which means I have to rely on that stupid priority thingy that changes every once a while

so I'd rather have one belt in, one belt out

[median heath]

That's just choosing to have longer trains... on purpose.

[wind spade]

but less trains... on purpose

[wicked tinsel]

ultimately that doesnt really matter if you connect one or two belts imho

since you are going to manifold it, so it will back up if too much goes to one belt

[median heath]

Indeed.

[weak plinth]

I only ever transport 600/min per platform, and even then you may need more than one train per route...

[wicked tinsel]

that being said, assumption that train station gets about half the performance of belts attached isnt too bad imho

half might be pushing it but 60-70% is about right i think

[wind spade]

the less amount per train car, the more chance that I need just one train, which means less trains, which means less focus needed on junction throughput and less chance of trains slowing down due to traffic 🤷‍♂️

[weak plinth]

more than that, as soon as you need more than one train per route, you have to deal with trains bunching up behind the same station whenever you're not consuming or producing at full speed, and fiddle with the timetables too.

[wind spade]

I mean if I know I can get away with just one train doing more than 780, then sure, I could hook two belts to one platform. But as a rule of thumb, I wouldn't do that in general (especially since I don't really want to calculate train throughput, I just add trains until it works)

[unkempt escarp]

that's what I did, putting the signals on the right side of the rail, but it still doesn't work, is it because I have to signal ALL my network, or is it because I made a mistake ?

[oblique hollow]

well.... once you start signalling you need more xd

pull out the signal hologram and look at the rail colors

you will have to keep making new blocks

(dont mind the 2 path signals after each other)

[unkempt escarp]

after doing what greeny explained, everything stayed red, except for a little yellow that started to appear (after the blue dots on his diagram)

[wind spade]

red is fine, it will turn green when train comes

path signals are red by default

[unkempt escarp]

I waited for the base, I even took a train manually to pass in and try, it didn't change anything, and when my trains arrive they stop at the signals

[wind spade]

manual train won't trigger path signals

[unkempt escarp]

but he told me I needed more, so I'll see by signing my whole card

[oblique hollow]

*wont trigger path signals

[wind spade]

indeed

[oblique hollow]

dont use path signals by default

[wind spade]

and yeah, you kinda need to do blocks every few hundred meters

[oblique hollow]

block signals are your friend for normal tracks

path signals are mostly for intersections

[unkempt escarp]

what what what ?

[oblique hollow]

each color is a block

only one train is allowed to be in a block

[oblique hollow]

in case a demonstration is needed

[unkempt escarp]

Does this mean I have to signals all this? not just the axe ?

[wind spade]

if you have more than one train, then ideally yes. Though if you have very low amounts of trains, you should be fine with just signalling intersections and maybe one block signal every 200-400 meters or so

[unkempt escarp]

it starts to work but only halfway

[median heath]

Yes.

[unkempt escarp]

oh hell I'm starting to understand what I have to do

[wicked tinsel]

unfortunately, you can only place those signals at rail connector

so if you were going for fancy looking base, you might need to rebuild the rail too :<

[unkempt escarp]

I was beginning to understand the logic of the axes, but now I have 2 axes in a row, it's red only on one side 🥴

[unkempt escarp]

"the signal returns on itself"

would you have another explanation? my brain makes compote there

[oblique hollow]

you have a badly placed rail

[oblique hollow]

this sums that error up

[wind spade]

something like this 😄

[unkempt escarp]

🤒

it makes me crazy

ah its that i think

double signal

[oblique hollow]

it should work actually

[frosty owl]

What do you mean by "fertile uranium uses less uranium"?
For the same amount of ore you make less nuclear rods but more plutonium rods

[oblique hollow]

i think the problem is this weird junction you have

[unkempt escarp]

i have that
red = trajectory
yellow = block

[oblique hollow]

this, X shaped rail

[unkempt escarp]

double Y

[oblique hollow]

illegal

signals do not like

too close

give it more space

[unkempt escarp]

👀

funny moment when i have build this

just have to destroy everything and redo it

2 trajectory signals in a row is not good so ? you need a block between ?

[oblique hollow]

yes

trains and signals hate that

and should actually NOT be possible anymore to build

see?

[unkempt escarp]

oh u cant build X in this Y ?

(is that what I need to see?)

[oblique hollow]

yes

X is no longer allowed

needs to be Y----Y

like so

[wicked tinsel]

pointless limitation but its there

[oblique hollow]

you also are limited to 3 positions each so

[wicked tinsel]

yeah

used to be possible to make as many as you wanted

[oblique hollow]

guess it was needed?

[wicked tinsel]

they wanted to have that ugly ass arrow box

so they had to limit it to 3 i guess

unfortunate really

[sacred pilot]

I am trying to PERFECTLY balance things so that I only make as much uranium waste as I can sink at fully efficiency, so I build up zero waste. The way the math worked out I needed it in order to load balance. Might have been the uranium waste usage, I can’t remember my brain is fried today

I’m far less concerned with generating power than I am with sinking points and not building any waste

I already have 150 fuel plants making way more power than I need and as is I’ll roughly get that much power again

[wind spade]

more new stuff soon in your cinemas browsers

[unkempt escarp]

thanks you @oblique hollow @wind spade @median heath my network works again 🥰

[cloud swan]

which is more efficient?

[wind spade]

the second one, I'd say

[tardy folio]

how

do i enable no cost mode?

[tardy folio]

bottom one

[wind spade]

there's no "no cost" mode officially. Some save editors may allow you to enable it however

[tardy folio]

do you have any examples?

[wind spade]

no idea, I don't use them

[tardy folio]

ok i just wanted to see if I could use it for a yt vid

[vapid gorge]

I've heard the satisfactory calt browser app can do that? But you'd have to fiddle around to figure out how

[tardy folio]

yea i actually got it

i used SCIM

[frosty owl]

SCIM or Pak (mod) can do that

[tardy folio]

Yea I used scim like I said above

But thx anyways
@vapid gorge and @frosty owl

[frosty owl]

Ops, dunno how I missed that 😅

[upper escarp]

Sigh. How do you split 11.25 into 6.25 and 5

[distant kernel]

where do you get mods for this?

that interactive map site?

[upper escarp]

Go there and open the Satisfactory Mod Manager

[distant kernel]

i found the mods on ficsit.app what folder do the .smod files go in?

nevermind found the mod manager program

thanks

[upper escarp]

I cannot do this

[cedar mica]

Split it in half and the machines will balance it out, sooner or later

[median heath]

Single splitter will do this just fine.

[tacit scroll]

Not sure if this is timely, but...

[upper escarp]

Thank you for saving me from the manifold

[tacit scroll]

Helped to think of it as a 9 into 4 and 5 split.

[median heath]

So much extra...

[tacit scroll]

I am pro-manifold. Just answering a question for someone.

[tardy folio]

does anyone have any good beginner factory setup that is easy to get early game and easily upgradable

[median heath]

Build YOUR factory, not someone else's.

[soft scarab]

1. have one side for inputs and outputs
2. build rows of machines perpendicular to the input/output side so you can make the rows longer as you upgrade belts etc
3. use manifolds

[vapid gorge]

Not really just because everyone will want to build different amounts of dif things. Gives yourself lots of space to grow and build upwards 🙂

The only real way you can KINDA do it is look up the numbers you can extract from your nodes with fully overclocked mk3 miners and plan for a lot of 780 and 600 feeds. That way when you get new tech you just have to change the speed your machines are running and go around upgrading belts and miners

[wind spade]

how's 4 splitters/mergers better than a single splitter 🤔

[forest blade]

well that's a matter of perspective (am pro manifold btw)

[zinc basin]

Quick question, manifold is when you rely on overflowing ?

[wind spade]

manifold

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[zinc basin]

Ima take that as a yes

[forest blade]

it gives us a thought experiment with all that extra time not spent on balancing

[oblique hollow]

Manifold is when the government does stuff oh wait wrong thing

[zinc basin]

😔

[forest blade]

@zinc basin !wikisearch manifold

[wind spade]

first the command then the ping 😉

[zinc basin]

Not nescesarry now, but thank you

[sinful hill]

turbo fuel or heavy turbo fuel? which one is better

[wind spade]

turbo blend fuel

[lyric jungle]

I didn't realize turbofuel was still a thing. Not worth the sulfur midgame, and late game when you got it, batteries and nuclear power are better.

[wind spade]

it is a thing only if you don't go nuclear

and batteries are not a power source 😉

[lyric jungle]

Tell that to the drones. I don't wanna make em anymore! But they won't fly unless their fed!

[sinful hill]

a) i dont have nuclear yet

b) i dont have blenders yet

c) i am thinking about using train to transport the sulfur and I wanted to ask which is more sulfur efficient

[oblique hollow]

Which what

Saying just "Blenders" is ambiguous

[sinful hill]

turbo fuel from fuel or heavy oil

which uses less sulfur

[oblique hollow]

Nuclear was it i think

[chilly bison]

The default recipe uses less. Turbo Heavy uses more of all resources in return for a saving in terms of power use by using fewer buildings, but the Blender recipe is better for that (and in just about every other way).

[sinful hill]

thanks

[zinc basin]

Turbo blend fuel produces less torbofuel/oil in the end tho

[maiden musk]

pain

[oblique hollow]

Oil is not your concern here

[oblique hollow]

Thats 100%

Game just has display issues

[maiden musk]

oh

[oblique hollow]

@median heath

Wiki states: 50/min compacted feeds 7 coal gens.
thats 30 MW for 2 assemblers plus some for the miners.
results in 525 MW Produced - ....50-ish MW consumed, so ca. 475 MW net.

if you took the same amount of coal and used that for power, you would get 250 MW

[median heath]

MJ is the point on Compacted, no?

[oblique hollow]

how is that the point

MJ per item is a useless value if you consider the above

[median heath]

Then the whole blurb at the bottom of Compacted needs to be deleted.

[oblique hollow]

what blurb

[median heath]

Sec

[oblique hollow]

there is none

[median heath]

SEC

Oh they DID remove it.

"In contradiction to its description Compacted Coal is not actually a more efficient fuel source for Coal Generators when considering net power. Since at 100% clock speed it takes 180MJ for an Assembler to make 5 compacted coal the net energy of one compacted coal is actually 594MJ. Compared to using 2 Coal, which are worth a total of 600MJ, using 1 Coal + 1 Sulfur actually results in less net power. This can be counteracted by using Assemblers underclocked to 73.7957% or less."

[oblique hollow]

history tells me someone reevaluated it and came to the conclusion: "Per-Item MJ is garbage and useless"

[median heath]

^ what it used to be.

[oblique hollow]

yeah that doesnt check out anymore, MJ are useless

it takes 30 MW for me to turn 50/min coal into 50/min compacted, which makes 525 MW

[median heath]

Also this needs to be 50 Compacted vs. 100 Coal.

[oblique hollow]

no it doesnt

[median heath]

Because Compacted is 2 ores.

So you're comparing 100 ores vs. 50 ores and no shit it comes out on top.

[oblique hollow]

that makes no sense sulfur has no intrinsic burn value

its like trying to use the burn value of iron

[sacred pilot]

It also depends on what you are most limited by. It allows you to use less coal, which could be a benefit in its own. However I cannot imagine where you’d need power that this would be the case

[median heath]

You can't give sulfur a zero value in the comparison though? It isn't fair that way.

[oblique hollow]

i can give it the miner power but thats it

there is no other cost to Sulfur other than miner power

scarcity doesnt increase MW

[median heath]

I'm not caring about scarcity.

Hmmm...

[oblique hollow]

at best, mk 3 miner on 100% and pure, i get like 5,2 MW cost for 50 sulfur

thats nothing

[median heath]

I'm fine with changing my stance I just need to be as sure about the new stance as I was about the old one.

[oblique hollow]

and the cost for the coal is just as low

so overall you pay like 30 MW for assemblers + 10,4 MW (at best) for mining 50/min sulfur and coal

for a gain of 525 MW

and a total net of roughly 484,6 MW

[median heath]

Coal is 15/min per gen, right?

[oblique hollow]

yea

50 coal/min is like 250 MW

which shows that once again Sulfur has no intrinsic MJ Value, at best its the mining cost and transport

[forest blade]

@median heath i was genuinely curious where your stance came from but after reading this at least we can have a math based discussion

[oblique hollow]

does my take on this make sense? any loopholes?

oh i forgot water extractor cost, duh. but thats the same in either case

[median heath]

Even if you give Coal the fairest shake of comparing 1 Compacted to 2 Coal--

Compacted is 10.5 MW per Compacted.
2 Coal is 10 MW per 2.

Which makes Compacted better.

👍

"Better after a certain amount produced/burned per minute" but no one is making Compacted in tiny amounts.

@oblique hollow this part makes sense to me so just accept it as me agreeing with you.

[oblique hollow]

🎉

[forest blade]

sounds like it slightly pains you to agree

[oblique hollow]

Sev fights his inner Boomer on changing his views 😛

[median heath]

????

Literally zero pain.

[forest blade]

right.

[median heath]

???????????????????

[wicked tinsel]

does anyone in right mind burns compacted coal

thats like most counterproductive thing ever

[oblique hollow]

i mean until you have TF its ok to do

[median heath]

Me arriving at the same conclusion but using a different method is why I clarified for his acceptance of us agreeing.
In case he wanted to "no, arrive at it my way or keep disagreeing".

[oblique hollow]

no im fine with ANY way as long as it sort of is based on a similar reasoning

[wicked tinsel]

i don think there is even one spot where such setup would be feasible tbh

[oblique hollow]

you did math, i did math, we agree

[median heath]

👍

[oblique hollow]

definitely Dune

[median heath]

Now let me get back to Sims 😭

[median heath]

Dune is where I use Compacted Steel 🙃

[oblique hollow]

isnt compacted steel weak tho

[wicked tinsel]

there is coal everywhere on dunes tho, far more than you could need for power until TF

[median heath]

Not really.
Solid is just easier and... no sulfur.

[wicked tinsel]

but i guess you could do it if you really wanted indeed

[forest blade]

crater lake rocky desert junction

[oblique hollow]

these seem reasonably close

also dune coal isnt as spread out as you think

[wicked tinsel]

middle and south ones have no water nearby

but i guess other three could be doable somewhat

[wind spade]

basically each starting location has compacted coal loc 🙂

[wicked tinsel]

they already provide plenty of power from raw coal tho so it seem counterproductive

[oblique hollow]

its basically just a way to conserve coal i guess

[forest blade]

use for steel production

[oblique hollow]

would be funnier if it did more MW

[wind spade]

point is "I have extra sulfur that's just lying there, I can make it into more power"

[forest blade]

because i havent set up turbofuel

then i shift it to turbo once it's done 🙂

[oblique hollow]

south is close enough

you can fit 6 extractors in that upper pond

[forest blade]

even has a little pond

[wicked tinsel]

that pond doesnt even have enough space to support that coal itself iirc

[forest blade]

i find it funny when people jam extractors into tiny pools of water

[wicked tinsel]

north west one i mean, the one nearby fits like one extractor

[fierce ruin]

hello?

[oblique hollow]

welcome?

[fierce ruin]

hiii um im looking for new friends for this game im new but im into game that get compliated

[median heath]

#looking-for-group-old

[oblique hollow]

careful with that group

dont ping people in there, DM them, else you get the 6 hour cooldown, unfortunately

[median heath]

Or #satisfactory if you just want to talk game things.

[opal echo]

Do coal generators still need 11.4 coal per minute or has this been changed?

[median heath]

When did they ever need that little?

[median heath]

15/min

[maiden musk]

How could you make 100% efficient smart plating with an mk 1 miner?

and if possible mk 1 belts

[forest blade]

what purity of resource nodes are available to you

[median heath]

Diluted Nodes when?

[maiden musk]

1 normal and 2 impure

for iron

but the iron would be very inconvenient to use since it's between 2 others so I would rather not use it if possible

the normal one

[forest blade]

2 impure = 1 normal

[maiden musk]

yes

[forest blade]

i mean i'm just gonna throw in the planner based on your t and c

you can do it yourself too

[maiden musk]

I already saw that one

[forest blade]

so what do you mean by 100 efficient then? like all machines running at 100%?

[upbeat flame]

underclocking

[forest blade]

^

[maiden musk]

ok

I already researched some slugs so I won't need to go out of my way now

[forest blade]

yeap

[maiden musk]

hope there was a creative mode so I could do some testing

and find the best for my situation

[upbeat flame]

What do you want to test?

[forest blade]

you can be 100% efficient with most machines running 100%

[maiden musk]

everything

[forest blade]

🤔

like you want to make your entire playthru perfect?

[maiden musk]

I want to not have to wait for 10 hours to get enough resources to test something,only to realize it's bad and then have to do it again

[upbeat flame]

How many playthroughs you have?

[forest blade]

@upbeat flame i feel like we're being doctors trying to figure out what people have problems with

[maiden musk]

around 5

yeah that