math-and-meta

[thorn bane]

you just 47 split its easy
(btw pls dont do this)

[warm sphinx]

i did a merger and then a splitter

[ashen girder]

That's literally how I do everything. I do a merger, then I do a splitter. 😂

[warm sphinx]

xD

anyway, any easy setup to put 2 smelters into 5 constructors?

[ashen girder]

Mergers at the outputs, splitters at the inputs. String them all together.

Merger at the outputs, splitter at the inputs.

2 mergers, 5 splitters.

[warm sphinx]

or just 2 splitters?

[ashen girder]

🤷‍♂️ You do it how you do it. I do it how I do it. I'd absolutely have 2 mergers and 5 splitters to connect 2 smelters to 5 constructors.

[warm sphinx]

for this

[fierce ruin]

That looks like so much for what could just be 1 line...

Smelters - Merge.
Single line behind all constructors.

😭

[thorn bane]

i think the only has mk1 belts

[fierce ruin]

Top right objective would suggest he has at least mk2

[warm sphinx]

thing is, thats the ONE thing i have to research

[thorn bane]

"build the space elevator"
thats like super super early

oh wait wat

[warm sphinx]

i made the space elevator and i demolished it

[thorn bane]

ah sorry i got jebaited

[warm sphinx]

btw, how would this be made easier with a mk2 belt?

[thorn bane]

merge all iron ingots onto a mk2 belt
then from there split it off

[fierce ruin]

Because you can just put it on 1 line.

Like I said.
Smelters - Merge.
Single line behind all constructors.

[warm sphinx]

ah

well, my brain is as good as dead at this time, so i am gonna try that tomorrow

[feral valve]

i gave a small inconsistency to submit for the channel : i have 2 belts of 600 items/minute plugged into 2 freight stations (1 each, no load balancing). There is not enough items to fill a car when the train loads, so each time the train loads the freight station is completely empty and begins loading again. The outgoing transfer rate is always below 600, usually around 590/min. Is this because of the loading animation?

[wind spade]

most likely

you need buffers for loading and unloading

[feral valve]

i have, but is doesn't help

[wind spade]

side view

[fierce ruin]

How often does the train come through?

[thorn bane]

if your train takes longer than ~5min youre limited by throughput by the train

[wind spade]

same for unloading (just the other way around)

[feral valve]

i have no problems unloading, it's loading that's the problem

[fierce ruin]

How often does the train come through?

[feral valve]

i didn't time it and i don't think the game display that info anywhere

give me a minute, will time it when it comes next

[wind spade]

depends on stack size imo, doesn't it?

[thorn bane]

ye ofc

[fierce ruin]

600/min is the incoming from belt, which stop for 27s every time the train parks.
So route time is 600/min and then there is 27s of 0/min.

Hence the 590ish.

Literal throughput between stations will be 600 though after the first couple trips.

[feral valve]

i was wondering if the route was too long but seems it was too short

[fierce ruin]

As long as the drop-off point isn't stalling for lack of resources I wouldn't worry about it.

[feral valve]

well, i need to have an input of 1200/min

hence the problem

weirdly enough

the iten output rate seems the be climbing. it's a 599 now

[fierce ruin]

It takes a couple trips to balance out.

On the UI that is.

Same way if a machine drops to 0 efficiency and then you supply it enough to actually be at 100% it takes a while for the machine to say it has 100%.

[feral valve]

argh, had interference irl and forgot to begin timing it...i was hoping we would get this info in this update, same as for the drones

[fierce ruin]

The timer isn't terribly important tbh.

[ashen girder]

Do we actually know what that time is? I've always wondered.

[fierce ruin]

In the game or in the metaphysical sense?

[wind spade]

it's possible to set per machine, but iirc it's 2 seconds for most if not all

[fierce ruin]

???

Cycle time is not 2s per machine..

[wind spade]

oh I thought you mean the delay before machine starts working again

[fierce ruin]

Idek if he is talking about the game.

Or if he's wondering what time is IRL. Conceptually.

[ashen girder]

😂 I meant the amount of time machines calculate efficiency over.

It's clearly not instant.

[wind spade]

what that time is

it isn't "what time is"

[ashen girder]

Some people struggle with reading. 😂

[fierce ruin]

I cawnt riid gud

[ashen girder]

That's why Navy and not Air Force? 😉

[thorn bane]

time is 21:51 right now

[fierce ruin]

And I want to say 3 min? But I can test tonight if the wiki doesn't have it.

[ashen girder]

That seems exceptionally high..

It has to be related to the cycle time I feel like.

[fierce ruin]

Why?

[ashen girder]

Because I've watched it change more quickly than that. 😛

[deft lichen]

the startup delay varies by machine, if you're talking about that

[fierce ruin]

Are we talking about startup delay time or the time window that the machine is averaging efficiency UI for?

[ashen girder]

I'm talking about the time window. 😂

I don't know what y'all mean by startup delay.

[deft lichen]

oh

[fierce ruin]

Yeah. Time window.

Idk where you 2 got start delay from tbh.

Could be 1 min. Idk. Like I said I can test if no one else has the number.

[wind spade]

last time I checked docs for that, it was the same for all machines, but may have been somewhere around U2/3, so idk now. Can check tho

[fierce ruin]

I need a nap first though. So if I talk in here again without mentioning it, remind me @ashen girder

[ashen girder]

Will do my best. 👍

[feral valve]

the train cycle starts at 50'8'' and ends at 54'13' so a cycle of 4'5''

[deft lichen]

I am almost certain smelters have none and miners have at least 2 seconds while most common machines have 1

[thorn bane]

whats the stacksize of the item youre transporting? also can you check if your train is full

but it seems fine

[feral valve]

that's the thing, i's never full, at most 3 * 8 stacks + 1

i say it that way because the last stack isn't full

[wind spade]

it's possible 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

@feral valve it will be 600 after a couple trips.
The first couple just won't show that because of how rounding works.

[thorn bane]

wait did you set it to wait until full? or default settings

[feral valve]

default

but yeah, given the upwards trend of the output i think it will reach 600 at some point

[fierce ruin]

You have 600/min going and then a period of 0/min during the docking animation.
Every trip after that will have a burst ABOVE 600/min after the docking animation as the buffer catches the system up then will return to being 600/min, and then 0/min during the animation again.

All of that will average out to 600/min.

That's part of why the dual-belted buffers are needed.

[feral valve]

yes. also in worst case scenarion i still have one impure node n i'm not using so i can increase the input a bit to reach the 600

[fierce ruin]

It's hardcapped when you try to push 1560 into a single car though because there isn't enough speed on the belt to exceed that so the system cannot "catch up".

So you're locked to 1560/min across travel time and 0/min across docking time averaged out.

[wind spade]

for minimum producing time, all machines have 2, with a few exceptions that have 0 or -1 (usually stuff like jump pads and others irrelevant).

for minimum stopped time, it's the same, except the amount is 5.

[stuck iron]

instant scrap?

[fierce ruin]

Classic Battery.

[feral valve]

i'd say pure iron is the best

[fierce ruin]

????????????????????????

[wind spade]

depends on what you need

[fierce ruin]

Greeny will say all are subjective.

HA

[feral valve]

well, i don't usually need batteries that much before i begin setting up my megabases

[fierce ruin]

Multiple megabases?

[thorn bane]

dont do instant scrap
its resource inefficient and normal alu is alot of fun imo

[fierce ruin]

Isn't that term implying single-location-does-all functionality?

[feral valve]

umm, not really. for me a megabase is just a giant factory. it can be specialized, but it's simply giant compared to the majority of the other factories

[oblique hollow]

instant is great dont listen to them

[feral valve]

for example, i'm currently working on a power generation megabase. 75GW in total, but it doesn't do much other than that

[fierce ruin]

I feel like this should be made into a poll...

Because every time I have heard or used the term it is about one massive location of everything.
Hence the playerbase is pretty much split into megabasers and outposters.

[ashen girder]

@fierce ruin Do I have the right idea? 😁

[fierce ruin]

Indeed.

I always hugged the wall in there too because while yes train, I left room for truck if I ever felt like I needed one.

Truck may actually be simpler to do depending on layout 😂

[feral valve]

well, i do agree that the definition of the words used can change from person to person, especially for words that have no clear definition

[fierce ruin]

Aye.

Like I am an outposter, but many of my outposts are larger builds.

[feral valve]

so to explain my previous statement : i only need a bit of batteries while unlocking everything, i don't go heavy on production until then. once i've unlocked everything is when i begin building up giant factories and ramp up the production of whatever i need, including batteries

[fierce ruin]

@thorn bane is a filthy megabaser 😛

[feral valve]

so i tend to prefer basic alternates to increase efficiency

[thorn bane]

#TeamMainBus

[fierce ruin]

#TeamMagicSchoolBus

ADA is secretly Ms. Frizzle.

[feral valve]

weird, now i have reached 600 on one, but the other station displays 610 o.O

[fierce ruin]

Averaging, like I said.
The important thing is the delivery station isn't running out.

[frosty owl]

#TeamOre-To-Manifacturing?

[feral valve]

yeah, good enough for me. probably was some kind of small spike

[ashen girder]

Anyone else use trains as brakepads for other trains? 😂

[feral valve]

if it wasn't too much trouble, probably would

[fierce ruin]

Nap time though. Peace.

[frosty owl]

Let us ping Sev some goodnights

[dark summit]

Honestly if I could be bothered building more bases I would but I just chuck stuff on platforms in my little area

[topaz hedge]

or mega-outposters

[thorny pine]

what do people consider to be the better turbofuel recipe and why?

[oblique hollow]

theres 2 but the blend fuel usually wins due to sulfur limits

[thorny pine]

ok, that makes sense, i see a lot of people on youtube that dont use it

[oblique hollow]

its quite fast but on the downside you need blenders

[thorny pine]

600 crude and 300 sulfur for 20k mw of power though

[oblique hollow]

it consumes a bit more oil

compared to the normal turbo recipe

[thorny pine]

so the constraint is the sulfur then, that makes sense

thank you

[oblique hollow]

usually yes due to it being needed in nuclear

[sullen cloud]

The blended one needs way less space.

[fringe pawn]

Sulfur always ends up being a resource of constraint.

Bauxite might be a solid runner up.

[glacial stag]

Anybody got opinions on using the recycled plastic and recycled rubber recipes?

I'm thinking about maxing out diluted fuel production to feed generators and then just take some of that fuel to crank out all the plastic and rubber I need with the alt recipes. I'm not sure what to do with all the polymer resin besides sinking it though.

[fringe pawn]

Polyester fabric, residual rubber, and residual plastic recipes for the polymer resin.

[glacial stag]

Is it worth the hassle of doing the residual rubber and plastic? They're pretty power intensive and it takes a lot of refineries to use it all up.

[oblique hollow]

If you want to maximize your output: do residual rubber

[fringe pawn]

If you don't need any of those products you can sink the resin. Those are the only worthwhile recipes.

[oblique hollow]

Its not that small of an amount of resin you get out of it all

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, residual rubber is the way to go. Make just enough fabric to automate a small supply of filters for your gas mask and hazmat suit, then turn the rest into residual rubber.

[thorny pine]

I was considering making 3200 (2x 600 crude to 1600 heavy oil residue to diluted fuel) fuel to use the recycled recepies to make rubber and plastic

its certainly a lot of refineries

[fringe pawn]

Oh yes it is

[thorny pine]

and a lot of power (have to look at my notes but its like 12-13k mw of power total)

[glacial stag]

I guess some of this comes down to the scale of my factory playstyle. I really can't be bothered to get a production line for most things higher than one mk5. belt. I build in lots of buffers and do batch production of more expensive stuff when it's needed.

[fringe pawn]

In your case it make not be worth the effort of using recycled alts. The map has lots and lots of oil overall. But if you're not built close to any, you may want to make the most of what's closest to you.

[glacial stag]

Oh, I've got plenty of oil. I just bring it all in by train to a single refinery facility which I don't really have the time to make big enough to handle all the input.

I guess I'll "waste" the polymer resin then, as the recycled alts seem to make my production line simpler and less prone to backing up.

[oblique hollow]

You could use residual plastic. One refinery of those can handle 3 entire heavy oil refineries

[tropic hawk]

I know it is necessary, but i dislike that my computer has to go over all 17.2 GB of the game for a 51 MB (0.051 GB) update

[knotty frigate]

Finest possible horizontal grid snap offsets? Using stacked frame bases we can get vertical offsets of just 20cm. The best I know of for horizonal grid offset is 1m via walkways, is it possible to get something even more fine? (whilst still being on the grid, rather than free placement)

[glacial stag]

You can somewhat freely place a walkway on top of a pillar, but that's the finest "snapped" adjustment that I'm aware of. You might be able to hack it a bit more with the use of mini pillars, and I've seen some using road barriers to place walkways in other interesting ways, though I'm not sure if it gives you more granular placement.

[patent briar]

I think Satis might be turing complete, but it would require some very silly things you do using... Packagers maybe? And water extractors? I think so

[tropic hawk]

I hear this a lot. What do you mean?

[patent briar]

Theoretically... you can control power in a circuit via a Water Extractor + Coal Plant

But... heres the key, the extractor could be on a seperate circuit from the one the coal plant is on

And... you can trigger an overload which shuts off an extractor by just drawing more power than that circuit can handle

[wind spade]

just belts and splitters (and maybe machines) were proven to be turing complete iirc

[deft lichen]

someone on reddit claimed the game is turing complete even before Update 3 released

[tropic hawk]

realizes i have to be at work in 13 minutes, and its a 10 minute ride there

[patent briar]

which could, or could not, trigger a cascade of controlled shut downs across multiple extractors

[wind spade]

faster 😛

[knotty frigate]

Just checked, this only gives you the 1m grid.

[patent briar]

I mean this also can theoretically work with say, fuel generators too

Basically any generator that is supplied its fuel by a seperate machine that also needs power to supply the fuel source

[wind spade]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/er0q03/satisfactory_is_turing_complete_and_i_will_build/

[glacial stag]

The only other idea I'd have is to see if you can snap a walkway onto the side or end of a beam.

[knotty frigate]

If we had true priority mergers to accompany overflow splitters, then belts alone would be turing complete

[patent briar]

Thats pretty clever, its an interesting approach

[noble timber]

Just clicked it and the amount of grammar mistakes make me not believe them

[wind spade]

the logic makes sense though 🤔

[patent briar]

But yeah I think you can also pull off a "turing tape" using the electricity grid instead, and rows of generators (each on their own grid)

[noble timber]

Yeah it does upon further reading

[wind spade]

yeah, I was just replying to your "SF may be turing complete" with "it is and here's how"

[knotty frigate]

What makes me not want to use power grids is not being able to tell the game "I don't care about this grid going offline", otherwise you could starve power generators

[patent briar]

Basically, imagine something like this (very simple but a general idea)

If the leftmost fuel provider shuts down, then after a bit the generator also will, which will kill the second provider, which kills the second generator, and so on

But if you modify the clock speeds of the various machines, you can set "breakpoints" they shut off at, and you can connect external looping packagers or whatever to the individual grids

Basically, you can manipulate each grid and how much load it has, and what its "shut down" breakpoint is

[knotty frigate]

Oh dang, that rotor production NOT gate totally checks out :D

And coupled with packager->shared belt->unpackager belt switch + toggling generators, then yes, you can control belts via logic right now. Also if you don't mind more fuse blown noises all the time, you could do a semi-pure electrical thing via powering sinks

(if unpackager is not powered, shared belt locks and prevents fuel moving to generator, which in turn turns off a sink. Sink is fed from smart splitter, which then swaps to overflow output)

QA feature request for disabling fuse blown notifications for specific networks https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/61943910831c85205235ebb9

[wind spade]

I think I've come up with (almost) belt-only NOT gate

[patent briar]

Whats really powerful as I mentioned the other day with the packager loop is you can use it to toggle a "flop" between belts, which you cant do with a sink

Simply by putting an overflow belt before the loop, if you turn off the loop it redirects items out the other direction

You could then theoretically chain these loops to create a full blown "direct this belt of items to this destination" network

[knotty frigate]

niiiice :D

[patent briar]

Ive been trying to figure out how to actually utilize this in a clever way. Not sure yet

The biggest thing I can think of is "turning off" train depots belts so they dont pull more items off the train anymore

While still keeping the depot itself intact, for example if you use the same depot to send items to 2 factories, you may want to just turn off 1 specific type of item flowing, and keep the rest of the system intact.

Also wait I guess. you cant even really "turn off" depots remotely easily anyways can you? Since rails power

[knotty frigate]

If we had true priority mergers, we could reliably use this sort of thing as a logic gate

[knotty frigate]

You can if you build far too many power lines 😂

[patent briar]

What would be really nice is if we could just connect power to storage boxes.

Powering them "closes" them specifically (so they work fine and normal with no power connected to them)

[knotty frigate]

Honestly before update 5 patch notes dropped, I was sure that golf was going to be Global Operations Logistics Framework, werein we'd get targets we could hit with balls to toggle power or do other things

[knotty frigate]

Oh dang, put that on the QA site and I'll upvote :D

[patent briar]

I personally would like to see skateboarding added before golf, that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the half pipe ramps :x

[feral valve]

that golf thing was such a perfect bait and switch

[patent briar]

I have no idea whats up with the golf thing though, was that just a meme from players or did people really want it?

[knotty frigate]

Suggest containers get a switch so you can set what happens in the power on/off states (eg, close output but allow input, only operational when powered, etc, etc)

[feral valve]

i think it started as a joke then people followed the hype it generated

[wind spade]

red is one type of item, blue is another type of item

input has to be double the output of this NOT gate (not sure if this can be fixed)

In normal circumstance (IN = 0, OUT = 1), the red belt provides 0, black input (production) produces 60, which is added to 60 extra and loops around. Right smart splitter splits 60 back, 60 out (has prio to the top belt, but it's only mk1)

this is how it is with input 120 (overflow splits not visible in first image).

[patent briar]

Has anyone made mods like Bobs mods or whatnot, I forget the specific one but, in Factorio theres a set of mods that basically make the same game 10x longer (basically all the recipes have several more layers and steps inbetween, so you have to do a shit tonne more work to make the same stuff)

Basically turning 3 step processes into like, 15 steps

Also adds a lot more buildings.

Like instead of just Miner, you would have to do Miner, then Crusher, then Sifter, etc etc

[wind spade]

here's complete schema with just important stuff (number = belt speed/production, OF = overflow)

[knotty frigate]

The middle splitter in the 1 -> 0 state seems to magically turn on? Also I think the input merger only works correctly and completely blocks the input if it can be given a priority, otherwise there will be a bleed through?

[wind spade]

green = mixed belt

the green SS is a sorter

all other SSs are overflow splitters

I don't see any magic turning on 🤔

[knotty frigate]

Ah, I see, it's removing the helper items?

And in is always a helper item?

[wind spade]

input items are always sunk (red ones), just if they are present (IN = 1) then it reduces the throughput on the green belt so that OUT = 0 (because of the rightmost overflow splitter)

(also I just realised the OF on rightmost splitter is wrong, sec)

there, fixed

red is input item, blue is output item. "production" is just anything that produces 60/min of blue item

if red has 120/min, then blue output is 0. If red has 0, then blue output is 60/min

[patent briar]

This seems like the same concept as the Packager loop, but you dont need to halve your bandwidth of production to stay within the blockers confines (in fact it should only ever so slightly reduce a Mk5s bandwidth by a couple items/min)

[wind spade]

wait, what's your IN and OUT for this gate? (I'm talking about NOT gate, not sure what's yours)

[patent briar]

Oh thought yours was just a gate to turn a belt on and off

this is just powering a belt on and off

[knotty frigate]

You both have the exact same thing.

A belt switch

Same logic Just implemented differently

[patent briar]

Specifically, it controls "turning off" that middle belt of Bottles+items.

Which means the input belt will "back up" if you turn the system off, which means you could slap an overflow splitter on it to flop the items to a secondary belt

[wind spade]

I have a NOT gate. Soralin has belt reducer it seems

oh, you control the packager manually

[patent briar]

yeah, basically what I posted is "flip a switch to turn this belt off"

[knotty frigate]

You technically don't have a NOT gate, given the different input versus output item. It's a belt controlled switch

[wind spade]

but still isn't a NOT gate, since for IN = 0, you won't get OUT = 1

[wind spade]

that's fair. I'm not 100% sure if this can be solved, but I really hope it can

[patent briar]

Correct, yours looks like its controlled by a belt so thats a bit more interesting, since you can chain em

[knotty frigate]

Just needs the packager loop to be fuelling a genny then yes, it works as a belt switch

[patent briar]

Oh snap thats right.... wait hol up

[wind spade]

yeah, I'm following upon the reddit post, just replacing that horrible 8 machine NOT gate with something more usable

[patent briar]

@knotty frigate If the output of the packager loop was fuel running a power source which controlled another loop, and then so on....

🤔

[knotty frigate]

You technically only need a pair that flip states :)

so that there's always one that can turn the other back on

[wind spade]

I'm retarded, it's so easy to overcome 😄 just process it in some recipe that doubles output 😛

[patent briar]

That would require a NOT though unfortunately

I presume you are referring to creating memory storage via 2x NAND gates in a loop, and thus making a... T Flip Flop I think it is?

Oh wait snap it is both an AND and NAND gate depending on which you power, isnt it?

[knotty frigate]

Affecting production rates is left as an exercise for the reader, I'm working in pure logic here :P

[patent briar]

If you power the bottle maker, its a NAND gate (powering it turns the belt off), but if you power the bottle consume, its an AND gate (powering it turns the belt on)

[wind spade]

I'm basically assuming: belt with items = 1, belt without items = 0

[patent briar]

Oh shit if thats a NAND gate... yeah that is turing complete, easily

Hold on a second here... I think I got this...

[knotty frigate]

By definition, yes :)

[wind spade]

I just realised how close to reality is my NOT gate, since they need to be powered lol

(in my case the "power" is the extra production)

[knotty frigate]

...as I said, it's best to not think of it as a NOT gate when working at the electrical level, only on the electronic level

Packing loop:

• Slower reaction time (needs belt to flood)
• Minimal impact on belt capacity
• No sink needed
• No transformation of input item into different output item
• Requires converting belt input to power (and carried with it fuse blown noise)

Belt overcapacity:

• Rapid reaction time
• limits output strength depending on inner capacity
• Switches input item for a different output
• No requirement for power network changes
• carries sink overheads

Both are great systems, a huge well done to both @patent briar and @wind spade :D

[wind spade]

• Switches input item for a different output
  this can be "solved" by processing output item to input item (picking a good two items)

I'm checking if I can find an item that can has a recipe that doubles amount

• limits output strength depending on inner capacity
  I'm a bit confused here. It either outputs 60 or 0 (based on whether you input 0 or 120)

[knotty frigate]

There are different belts in the game? 😉 and the means to make an arbitrary limiter. Plus in general then it halves output compared to switch signal

[patent briar]

Recycled Plastic and Recycled Rubber might be the key

They both double to the other, taking fuel as a second input

You can just supply sufficient fuel to all your "doublers" and convert back to the original item at original amount

[wind spade]

yeah I was trying to find a single input thingy

would be easily doable with mods

[patent briar]

I dont think there is one, I definitely would say though the power of flipping between Rubber <-> Plastic is super powerful for logic

[wind spade]

I could probably use copper ingots as a main item. Then the NOT gate would "produce" copper ore, which gets doubled by "copper alloy ingot" (taking a few iron ore as secondary input).

[wind spade]

yes but other than a few places in the NOT gate you can use any (mk2+, as you need 120+ throughput for NOT gate)

[patent briar]

@knotty frigate

The fantastic bit about this is, its more than just a bit of memory. The output is the clockspeed of the generator, so its actually a digital output

If you have the fuel at the end, for example, powering two generators, one is just connected to the opposite packager, and the second is connected to a grid...

You could easily make an adder, as you could have multiple of these connected to the same grid and that would naturally sum their power

[wind spade]

does a network restart automatically if it has power again? I'm not sure, but I think the answer was no at least in previous updates

[patent briar]

Oh shoot... it wont lol

[wind spade]

yeah that's why I kinda gave up on trying to do it with power grids, they don't restart 😦

(could probably make a mod for it though)

[ashen girder]

WTB Automatic circuit breaker plz

[wheat spear]

hey all, sorry if this has been asked, but when looking at the fluid chart someone posted a few days ago, what does "1 Belt Breakpoint" Mean?

would that be the headledft?

[wind spade]

idk what's that table even. Where is it located?

[wintry aurora]

Might be in relation to the bug with belts? What fluid chart are you talking about though? I haven't seen it.

[wheat spear]

it was something someone in here posted a few days ago

breaks down the different fluid flows

[wintry aurora]

1 belt? Hm, which MK?

[wheat spear]

no idea LOL, that is what I am trying to figure out what that column meant

[wind spade]

what even are those values 🤔

[wintry aurora]

I'm not even sure what that's even about anyway, is it talking about viscosity or something?

[wintry aurora]

Same, there's no context.

[wind spade]

I can't even figure out what's the "fluid/min"

it's not recipe output, because there's no recipe that outputs 40/min sulfuric acid

[wintry aurora]

Viscosity? I dunno.

[heady dove]

Fluid/min is typically the production at 100%.

[wind spade]

that's the same for all fluids iirc

[wintry aurora]

But that's 120 for water extractors, not 60.

[wind spade]

again, then sulfuric acid is wrong (or the theory is wrong)

also turbofuel is 30/min, unless we count "unpackage" recipe

[wintry aurora]

We'd have to ask whoever made the chart.

[wind spade]

oooh

[heady dove]

We were typing our responses at the same time and I sent mine before I read yours.

[wind spade]

it's unpackage rate

most likely

[wintry aurora]

See, context.

[wheat spear]

it took awhile to find it lol but here is some of the posters message

[heady dove]

Yep, Packager. Even with my theory, I think alumina solution is 240/min at 100%.

[wind spade]

would be nice if we got message link instead of screenshot

so we can read context around the message

[wheat spear]

I guess I was just hoping this chart would help me figure out my flow issue.

[wintry aurora]

Belt breakpoint is saturation point? Again, which MK.

[heady dove]

What's the flow issue?

[wheat spear]

never done that before, let me find it again and get that for you 🙂

[wind spade]

ah, found it

also, I've read the context around it

[wintry aurora]

Any idea what belt breakpoint is?

[wind spade]

the "breakpoint" means when packaging/unpackaging becomes more MW efficient than pumping the liquid upwards

[wheat spear]

I am trying to push Heavy Oil Residue up about 90m straight up

[wind spade]

the table won't really help you with that. It's just about efficiency of pumps vs packagers.

[wheat spear]

its the pipe on the right, I can't seem to enough flow past the turned pipe

[wintry aurora]

Most of those are kilometer plus ans it seems to really only be worth it for nitrogen and for alumina solution.

[wintry aurora]

More pumps?

[heady dove]

2 mk2 pumps is 50m each.

[wheat spear]

I have moved the pump all up and down the pipe

[heady dove]

Base headlift is 10m

[wintry aurora]

Wait, where are you putting the first one? If it's above the headlift of the refinery, it'll have problems.

[wheat spear]

i've first tried is at the bottom at the start

[heady dove]

10m up should work.

[wheat spear]

when then moved it up because that didn't really seem that it made much difference

[wintry aurora]

Assuming you already checked if they were facing the right way....

[wheat spear]

yep 🙂

I've made that mistake a few times

I even have a small buffer at the top

[heady dove]

Last time i had a flow issue was because my refinery was producing too little. Took me ages to find that out.

[wheat spear]

to see if that would make any difference

[wintry aurora]

Actually, maybe try deconstructing the pipe and replacing it, I had a maybe similar issue earlier with the coal plants where the water somehow wouldn't flow.

On both ends to be sure.

[wheat spear]

ok

i haven't done a full pipe replacement yet

[heady dove]

Good point. I've had frozen conveyor belts that I just deleted and remade.

[wheat spear]

this is just a for show type place 🙂 just trying to be creative lol

and semi functional for plastic and some power gen

thanks all

[arctic hull]

usually u should see some kinda of indicator as to where to put ur next pump....

[gloomy gyro]

So, with 540 screws per min for my 30 modular frames build, how do I apply them evenly to my assemblers without mk 5 conveyers? Do I like put screws into 3 assemblers then merge the other set into them, would that work?

[fierce ruin]

you do that by not using bolted frame recipe
it's not particularly good on materials, and not very scalable (due to reasons you already mentioned)

[chilly bison]

Wait, 540? Where's that number coming from?

Oh, typo, 840

I'd just split it onto two belts right away.

[topaz hedge]

Easy, pair groups of constructors to groups of assemblers...

[chilly bison]

Send each to half the machines.

[topaz hedge]

or use steel screw, and have 1 constructor directly belted into 1 assembler.

[gloomy gyro]

I'm doing this

[topaz hedge]

overclock or underclock if you need to, the power cost from overclocking a few constructors is quite small.

so you could overclock slightly, and build 9 constructors.

[fierce ruin]

well, then why it's a problem? your 540 flow comes from 10 sources and goes to 9 destinations

[chilly bison]

Well 1:1 belting is going to mean you need to underclock heavily since the Constructor makes 260 and the Assembler only wants 140.

It's a 840 flow is the problem

[topaz hedge]

not in this guys case.

[gloomy gyro]

it comes from 11, I underclocked the 11th rather than overclocking one

[chilly bison]

Oh right, I assumed this was a bolted frame line, my bad.

[topaz hedge]

Even if it's the case, it makes belting so much quicker and easier with 1:1

my suggestion is to build 9 constructors, overclock them so they produce 60 screws each, and directly belt them to each assembler.

[fierce ruin]

yeah, but the point still stands - you don't need to pull all that flow into one belt, ever

[topaz hedge]

it's a 120% overclock..

if you want to do that any other way, then that's on you

[gloomy gyro]

right

[topaz hedge]

option b is to again... seperate them into 2 groups

and build 12 constructors and divide them into groups of 6 and figure the math out for that.

[fierce ruin]

this will work fine with grouping up to 2 mk3 belts (which I assume you already have at this point)

and you can put mergers/splitters on both if you worry about uneven spread of screws

[chilly bison]

Or even have one in each group that's overclocked by .4.

[gloomy gyro]

well I built a little building, has 24 smelters on bottom floor, 18 constructors on each of the 2 middle floors, and then assemblers above them so the whole 1 constructor to 1 assembler straight belted won't work

[chilly bison]

That's still a nice even split

[gloomy gyro]

the 10 with 2 of them .4 is probably the best option

[topaz hedge]

in the future try to 1:1 screws with machines.. my hmf factory runs though something like 15k screws/min and there is no nice way to handle that involving more than 1 machine making screws per machine using the.

[gloomy gyro]

yeah I'm trying to make a HMF factory now except I'm using encased frames

[topaz hedge]

besides that, finding ways to group stuff up is kinda the secret to this game and large factories xd

[chilly bison]

Though since you're going ten into nine you'll have to have one belt that's coming in 50% from one side and 50% from the other.

[topaz hedge]

you can use the calculator, but you have to look past the xxx/min and consider how many machines, and how many machines are feeding that to find ratios for stuff that works within what a belt/pipe can handle xd

[gloomy gyro]

right

[topaz hedge]

my hmf factory is heavy flexible. bolted frames, and adheared iron plates. lots of rubber use, less steel use xd only using like 3k steel/min.. and 1920 rubbers for 60 hmf/min

[gloomy gyro]

alright thanks, I'll fiddle with it tomorrow

[noble timber]

My HMF factory took way to long to build

I guess that’s what I got for trying to make 10/min with no Alts way back when I built it

[topaz hedge]

Them heavy frames are serious

[graceful sable]

Y'all are to smart

[sullen cloud]

I still remember building my first HMF factory without any conveyor lifts before U1. That was fun 🤩

[gloomy palm]

thanks google

[fierce ruin]

you would've probably spend less time first hunting for encased alt HMF, then building a factory based on that

[noble timber]

That’s technically not true

There is no limit if you do file tweaking

[gloomy palm]

do you really think that satisfactory has more than four players?

[noble timber]

Yes

If you want it to

[noble timber]

Yeah placing 250 constructors wasn’t fun

[paper python]

Any good way to do 4:5 split? Trying to get 2 Reinforced Iron Plate from 2.5

[wind spade]

apart from doing some weird balancing, you can just use a manifold

[paper python]

manifold is fill till it excess so it give to the next machine?

[wind spade]

yeah

[frosty owl]

These sort of splits are usually approached like: split in 6 (closest "even" split) then merge back 1 to the input anderge the rest for your desired output (merge back however many "excess" outputs you have)

The un-merged outputs would be fifths of the input in this case

[chilly bison]

Since it's a multiple of 3 you could just split it into nine belts and then merge four one way and five the other.

[thorn bane]

he wants 2 RIP into 2.5 so 5->4:1

[fierce ruin]

This reminded me of this one:

[gloomy palm]

xDDDD

i love that

[fierce ruin]

At least 5 because Satisfactory devs, right? 😏

[dull bolt]

If only.

[final spoke]

I would even say at least 6

[chilly bison]

The other one is Killian?

[fierce ruin]

Killian.... he's the real mandarin in Iron Man 3, right?

[chilly bison]

No, he's a red panda on Youtube. But also what you said.

[obtuse tundra]

So it's super inefficient the way I use mergers and splitters. Let's say I'm creating smart plates which use a lot of iron. I tend to merge all my iron ingots as they come out, i.e. I merge them all in one direction, then I funnel them through splitters to their respective constructors, again splitting them all in one direction. This means that I have to wait a while before all the constructors operate at 100% efficiency because as I split down the line the first constructor receives 1/2 of the ingots, the second receives 1/4, the third 1/8 and so on dividing by 2 until you reach the end. Visually, this was a quick way for me to build factories and make them look neat. If I wait long enough the factory will operate at 100% efficiency but is there a better way to do this that improves the wait time or removes it all together without compromising visual integrity?

[remote citrus]

Iirc that’s called a manifold, and it’s fine. The other option is to load balance, which imo looks much more satisfying (never stops moving)

[fierce ruin]

1. start your manifold from the midpoint, not from one end, or
2. prefill all the assembly lines before turning machines on.

[obtuse tundra]

@fierce ruin That second suggestion will work beautifully, And that's quite a simple solution

Thanks so much

[fierce ruin]

precise load-balancing can be used at times, but mostly rather impractical (it costs way too much real-time hours to build all the splitting schemes)

[fierce ruin]

Pre-feeding is de wae.
And because resources are infinite, manifold vs. balancer is truly just a matter of preference.

[thorn bane]

add a container to the input line so that when you connect it the system will fill instantly

[obtuse tundra]

@fierce ruin Agreed, I've always just used manifolds from an endpoint. It's funny though that I've been playing 2000+ hours and only in the past 6 months have I actually cared about this level of efficiency

[remote citrus]

I agree with this. I don’t like to load balance either, I just find that it visually is more satisfying, with everything constantly moving.

[fierce ruin]

I did the total comparison on Diluted Fuel vs. Turbo Fuel... reddit post time 🙂

[thorn bane]

diluted fuel

[fierce ruin]

DPF > Diluted, I know.

[thorn bane]

nah no water > water

(atleast for turbofuel)

[fierce ruin]

Are you talking in terms of MW or just setup configuration? @thorn bane

TF was cool until U4, where there were suddenly tons of new uses for sulphur

[thorn bane]

in terms of setup
diluted water is more efficient but imo its not worth if you use turbo blend fuel

[fierce ruin]

Fair, but this comparing maximum net MW potential. So there is a bit of water used in Turbo Blend because it is better from that perspective.

Which is why I can say DPF > Diluted tbh,

Baseline for comparison was 1800 oil.
Net Diluted MW is 53,800
DPF is 54,840

that's a... rather small difference

Turbo is 119,329.8133_, but uses all sulfur nodes on the map.
Turbo Blend is 73,076.66_

[fierce ruin]

Indeed.
Comparison isn't in terms of severity though. Something either is or is not greater.
Subjectively you can determine if the "small difference" matters to you.

I hate Discord randomly italicizing things..

[tropic hawk]

when you make a hypertube cannon that only goes halfway to the destination...

[fierce ruin]

Oh you made a launcher?
I have always fully connected point-to-point and just used the cannons to increase speed.

but where's fun in that?

it's too bad that making a dedicated "landing pad" for cannon is utterly impractical due to extreme fluctuations in the launch/flight phases

Efficiency is fun.

[fierce ruin]

@thorn bane would you say these are fair conclusions:

• Diluted Packaged Fuel > Diluted Fuel, but up to you if 1,040 MW is worth the setup complexity.
• Turbo Blend Fuel is superior if you are planning to keep the plant running and don't need the sulfur for anything else.
• If you do a large enough DPF setup in T5/6, it can easily carry you all the way to nuclear power without you ever having to touch or redo it into Diluted or Turbo Blend during the T7/8 phase.
• Massive Base Turbo Fuel setups use every Sulfur node on the map and are not in any way recommended.

[wise hamlet]

Hello everyone,
With update 5, I want to start a new game and absolutely max out the resources on the map. this means i need the right alternate recipes to achieve that, bearing in mind that some resources will go to power generation. Will be running the refined power mod (after smm is fixed for update 5), so that may alleviate some power needs.
I also want to find a good way to calculate how much of a particular resource i need for end game (x amount of steel beams, x amount of quartz crystal etc.).
Is there a resource out there to help me out?

[wind spade]

but up to you if 1,040 MW is worth the setup complexity.
is that savings per 300 oil? or what is that number? and to which recipe it belongs?

[thorn bane]

second time i died to reading discord god dammit

[fierce ruin]

Baseline is 1800 Oil. I have an entire post written, just checking the final part of it before hitting send.

[wind spade]

there's nothing you "need" for lategame. It's really up to you what you decide to produce.

That said, there are some production planners in pins and in #welcome, so feel free to check them out

[fierce ruin]

1. Mods 🤢
2. There really is no actual target for endgame so you have to set one yourself. For example, this run my goal is to have central storage getting an input of 1 STACK per minute of each item worth being stored.

[thorn bane]

-idk i would never recommend diluted packaged fuel
-true
-i think turbo blend fuel is too good not to use fuck def. tf
also dont ever redo power setups anyway just build a new one
-yep

[wind spade]

diluted packaged fuel is fun to set up. Diluted fuel is just... meh setup

[fierce ruin]

@wind spade it is also hard to precisely quantify DPF vs. Diluted. 1040/1800 would be 0.577_ MW/Oil, but as you reduce the total oil amount your Net MW also changed because you start underclocking buildings.

[wind spade]

yeah that's why I never include underclocking into power calculations

[fierce ruin]

You most likely get DPF in T5/6 and you cannot even make Diluted until T7/8, so personally from doing this I am just going to set DPF up (I am in T5/6 atm) on this run and let it hold until nuclear because once I get to nuclear I don't even need to fuck with a Turbo Blend setup.

[fierce ruin]

Accuracy though 😦

[thorn bane]

id use the lower building count recipe even if it was less resource efficient xD just for minimal power gain is an absolute nono

imo you go 30 normal fuel gens until blender and then make a big setup until nuclear

[fierce ruin]

So @thorn bane while I agree that Diluted and Turbo Blend are simpler and better, if a person wants to just do a setup they can do once and never touch again, DPF is a solid option.

[wind spade]

my point:

• if I don't include underclocking, I can double output and double power and it's still "accurate". Underclocking one machine at the end doesn't make as much difference as if you'd underclock one machine, calculate power and then build 10 times as much

[thorn bane]

its sooo many more buildings though

[fierce ruin]

That is fair. I'm not going to re-write my post though 😛

[fierce ruin]

True. Hence it becomes a matter of preference.

[thorn bane]

also again i dont use any diluted fuel for turbofuel
def. fuel is good enough for turbo blend since you dont need alot

[fierce ruin]

Some people may find it more desirable to sacrifice building time now to not have to redo things later. 🤷‍♂️

Def. Fuel?

[thorn bane]

default fuel

[fierce ruin]

Residual?

Like Oil > HOR > Fuel recipe?

[thorn bane]

nope too many buildings

[wind spade]

yeah I'm not saying you should. I'm just justifying my decisions 😉

[fierce ruin]

Good God...

My dislike of your methods and respect of you individually grows with each new revelation...

[thorn bane]

its super low building count which is all i want from a temporary power setup

[fierce ruin]

@wind spade is this revised conclusion more acceptable?

• Diluted Packaged Fuel > Diluted Fuel, but up to you if a roughly 2% MW increase is worth the setup complexity.

[wind spade]

oh, it's power production 😄

I was like "why would increase in consumption and more complex setup be ever worth"

[fierce ruin]

Yes. DPF and Diluted both generate 60,000 MW from 1800 oil.
Their NET MW is what differs.

[wind spade]

maybe mention that it's power production 😄

[fierce ruin]

Blenders chunk into the Diluted's net output.

The whole post is about power production, I don't think I need to re-mention that in the end conclusions 😂

[wind spade]

well "MW increase" is automatically about consumption for me (especially if you're comparing two production lines), even if the post is about power production

[fierce ruin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/qw01o7/fuel_vs_turbo_fuel_complete_mw_comparison/ Post.

[wind spade]

tables pls

[fierce ruin]

Make your own post you can format it however you want. 🙂

[thorn bane]

taking 1800 oil as a baseline is a weird metric imo
i think i would prefer certain amount of generators as baseline and then back calculate the resources needed

[fierce ruin]

Set amount of generators is same total MW output and different oil inputs.
Which while that makes sense to some, most people looking at power I have seen are doing so in terms of "I have X amount of oil, how much does that give me?"

[thorn bane]

god i hate this so much
~300 in
~300 out
intermidiate steps are 6000 and 5100
and you thought screws are bad

[fierce ruin]

Automating Project Assembly Parts... 🤢

[wind spade]

easy points 🤷‍♂️

[thorn bane]

its more automating the most efficient awesome points item in the game
i dont need more SE parts

[fierce ruin]

Sinking LEAVES is easy points.
It's all a factor of time-per-point.

[thorn bane]

but i dont care about the actual coupons

[fierce ruin]

Fair.

Also given I am building this run for 1 stack per min of each item... after storage fills the points roll in, and as each new outpost is completed that just compounds on itself.

[thorn bane]

50 assembly director systems/min

[fierce ruin]

No, because that would involved automating Project Assembly Parts....

Just the storage list is getting automated.

[wind spade]

project assembly parts are generally free doubling of points 🤷‍♂️ but it's your choice to not do them 😉

[fierce ruin]

Indeed.

[glacial stag]

Anybody else tried rushing geothermal power instead of building fuel generators?

I started with 600MW of biomass burners switched to 1.2GW of coal and then added the total 4.5GW of geothermal power once I unlocked them.

Coupled with 3000MWh of batteries, I've had zero power issues running factories and trains all the way up to phase three and completely skipped fuel generators.

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna need to start adding nuclear soon, but that's really just to power all the things required to do nuclear.

[thorn bane]

how did you get the supercomputers?

[glacial stag]

I unlocked them and built them the normal way.

I only had the 1.2GW of coal plus batteries while I was doing it though.

[thorn bane]

isnt ~2 super computers/min already 1GW?

[glacial stag]

My total power consumption way higher than power production, but most of my factories were only setup to fill a quota (a storage container) so the average power draw was substantially lower. I didn't underclock anything.

[thorn bane]

how many supercomputers/min did you make
i feel like this would take a long time

its 50 to unlock right?

[glacial stag]

I had a bunch of parts to make supercomputers and then fully overclocked one manufacturer to make them.

I won't claim it was the fastest.

I did get some alt recipes though to make crystal computers.

[thorn bane]

ye i was thinking about that some time ago because theres actually alot of supercomputers near crashsites you can pick up

[glacial stag]

Yeah, not enough to unlock and then build the geothermal plants.

[thorn bane]

i guess you only need to make 13 then hm

[glacial stag]

I just made a janky super computer production line and eventually had enough to do all of the generators.

[fierce ruin]

@wind spade Commentor caught an error I made. Diluted is better than DPF (I forgot a 0 in the building count 😦 ).
Final point about how doing DPF in T5/6 and just leaving it until nuclear is still valid though.

16 Packagers vs. 160 Packagers is a smol difference of 1440 MW 😦

[thorn bane]

and you have enough power with geothermal to get to nuclear?

its definitely an awesome idea and cool to see someone actually doing it
i might try that at some playthrough

[glacial stag]

I'll be relying pretty heavily on battery power to get nuclear started. It is very possible though.

[thorn bane]

how much power do you have?

[glacial stag]

Currently 4.5GW of geothermal, 1.2GW of coal and 3GWh of batteries.

I'll be expanding my battery capacity substantially though.

[thorn bane]

hm i think thad be too low power for me but ofc. you can always build additional fuel gens.

thats ~38 fuel gens and id make atleast 50

[glacial stag]

I just make sure that none of my factories have to run continually and also program the trains to stop if their drop off station is full.

Definitely been a bit more power conscious, but it's been fun to make it all work.

[thorn bane]

wait you have trains with 5.7GW?
how do you have enough power to build anything xD

[glacial stag]

I am usually running a power surplus actually.

Batch production is your friend.

[fierce ruin]

Interesting that Rigour Motors cost less Qtz per Motor than Electric Motors...

[glacial stag]

I was running 6 fully overclocked manufacturers to make the phase three parts and only used up about 20% of my battery reserve.

[thorn bane]

hm ok i just checked and i guess i only used ~6GW at the point where i unlocked nuclear power
but i usually wait until Particle Enrichment to setup nuclear so i dont have waste
i guess if you just store the waste until later 6GW could actually be enough

[glacial stag]

That bodes well for me. Thanks for the insight.

I've never actually done nuclear before. This is my fifth playthrough and I'm planning to actually do it this time.

[fierce ruin]

Technically if you connect all geothermal and just make a metric shitton of batteries it can carry you all the way to particle enrichment too, if you're fast enough 🙂

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile I'm sitting here with everything completely unlocked and I've never so much as mined a uranium deposit. 🤔

Except the very final mug. 😂

[fierce ruin]

Just did endgame planning because bored at work....
The only thing I will use HSCs for is ECRs, and in turn the only thing I will use ECRs for is nuclear rods...
Sadge.

[thorn bane]

max geothermal is 4.5GW thats the point

[fierce ruin]

Indeed.

[ashen girder]

I think I produce like.. 8 GW total, on a sunny day.

[fierce ruin]

I guess I could use ECRs in Motors, but that's Quartz vs. Caterium cost.
Need to see how much my aluminium setup is going to take to make that comparison.

[thorn bane]

actually handcrafting HSCs atm because i didnt automate them xd

need them for drone ports

[fierce ruin]

Fair.

Heat Sink vs. Heat Exchanger in terms of aluminium which is cheaper?

[glacial stag]

If my primary goal for nuclear is to just produce the nuclear components for phase four, how many plants do I really need?

[thorn bane]

what do you mean with nuclear components?

[glacial stag]

The nuclear pasta

Like, how much power does that really take to run?

[thorn bane]

1000 MW avg for 1/min

[wintry aurora]

Speaking of, what's a good power level goal for aluminium? a bit over a 10GW plant would suffice for a while?

[thorn bane]

ye sounds good
if you like building big maybe a bit more

[wintry aurora]

I don't know how big, I'm just future planning here.

[errant sable]

exchanger

barely

[fierce ruin]

Ty.

Still baffling me how many items in this game go cleanly into 45...

[wintry aurora]

Base 45?

[fierce ruin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[errant sable]

using rational numbers for machine count?

idk

[fierce ruin]

Like, setting total production to an output that is a multiple of 45 automatically makes every machine in the entire line behave with no floating or repeating numbers (with the exception of sometimes the Miners being weird but who cares about those?).

[wintry aurora]

Hm, The build numbers don't look that bad for 68 generators, I could probably double that.

[fierce ruin]

Everything that looks complicated because it is in terms of 1.875 or 2.1825 or whatever.
Just round up to 45 and it is clean AF.

[wintry aurora]

Weird indeed I suppose.

[errant sable]

y=45/x when y doesn't have a repeating decimal

[fierce ruin]

Idk what is special about that number... probably some fractional thing. 🤷‍♂️

[errant sable]

labelled with the y coordinate

[fierce ruin]

And all of those points are within the 4 decimal limit the game has.
Apparently 45 is just magic...

[wintry aurora]

grumble 134 doesn't go cleanly into anything other than 2....

[fierce ruin]

What do you need 134 of?

[wintry aurora]

Fuel generators.

I wanted to see how many rows I could do cleanly.

[fierce ruin]

Reverse look: How much fuel are you making?

[wintry aurora]

I'll just have to add an uneven somewhere.

[fierce ruin]

See above question.

[wintry aurora]

Planning on rather, which is 1608 for a nice round generator number.

[fierce ruin]

Plz don't ever do your fuel production in precise terms of your generators 😦

[wintry aurora]

Why?

[fierce ruin]

Fluid does not behave.

[wintry aurora]

Okay, what's the advice then?

[ashen girder]

Something tells me 45 is a variable they use in their balancing spreadsheets and just reference a lot. 😂

[wintry aurora]

I didn't have a problem with doing that in U3.

[fierce ruin]

Genuinely if you want to do 134 generators, you should make enough for like 136.
Overflow hook to a packager that sinks the excess.

[wintry aurora]

I see.

[fierce ruin]

Or they just have the graph that orangutan posted because it gives you many, many options to divide numbers into.

[ashen girder]

...I thought you were being mean. 😂

[fierce ruin]

?

[wintry aurora]

Not sure how to make a proper overflow, but I get the general gist is a tower of a pipe that goes up to JUST at the headlift limit.

[ashen girder]

"that orangutan"

[errant sable]

lmao

[fierce ruin]

Fair.
But if you make that graph as a reference table you can just set any new item to any of the many decimals on it and now it works out cleanly.

[thorn bane]

alot of recipes are not that bad if you just clock to 1/min
45 just build on that by having a bunch of nice prime numbers

[ashen girder]

I feel like you could build that chart for a lot of numbers though.. I bet 48 looks even nicer. 😂

60 is probably chef's kiss.

[fierce ruin]

I have always made it taller so the only way it can overflow is if the line backs up enough to exceed the headlift due to volume in the tank. But yes there are many guides on how to make one.

[fierce ruin]

60 doesn't because then I could reduce most things to multiples of 30, which gets ugly.

[wintry aurora]

Babylon did base 60 I believe.

Random history factoid.

[thorn bane]

with what recipe is 45 nicer than 60?

[wintry aurora]

Or was it base 30?

[ashen girder]

That's like saying 45 doesn't because then you could reduce most things to multiples of 15..

60 has 15 factors that divide into 4 decimal precision or better. 45 only has 13.

[wintry aurora]

Yea, Babylon did base 60.

[ashen girder]

45 just gets funnier number. 😉

[fierce ruin]

Anything ending in 2.8125

[errant sable]

45/16

[fierce ruin]

Like HMFs.

[ashen girder]

Funny enough, I only went to 3 decimals by accident so that was the only one that's missing from my 45 list.

Going out to 5 decimals doesn't add any additional ones beyond that.

[fierce ruin]

The only recipe I can find on short notice that does not behave with 45 is Caterium Circuit Boards.

But that doesn't behave with 60 either.

[ashen girder]

90s even better..

[wintry aurora]

Anyhoo, 135 is a better generator number I think.

[fierce ruin]

And ofc Rubber/Plastic because those are best done in 81s

[errant sable]

it behaves with 35 for some reason

gross number

[ashen girder]

132 is better.

126 is best.

[wintry aurora]

In terms of trying to divide into rows.

[ashen girder]

What do you mean?

[fierce ruin]

Steamed Copper Sheets hate 60's as well.

[thorn bane]

45 is coprime with 7 so anything that makes 7 is bad
cheap silica for example

[wintry aurora]

I'm not gonna be making one very long line of them.

[ashen girder]

Oh. I misunderstood what you meant by "generator" number. 😂

I'm stuck on what numbers would be better than 45 to base the math of the game around. 😂

126 is magnificent.

[wintry aurora]

132/3 is close, 44.

[thorn bane]

ye i was just about to try 63

[ashen girder]

Every number from 1 and 161 that has more than 20 up-to-5-decimal factors.

[thorn bane]

you jsut look at prime numbers that make repeating decimals
2 is fine since its 0.5 0.25 0.125
5 is fine since its 0.2 0.004
so you just slap on a bunch of 3s and 7s

[wintry aurora]

Yea actually, you can divide 126 more easily into some numbers. would like an even number of rows though.

[ashen girder]

I'm more of a numerical analysis kinda person, so I've got a little script pumping out numbers. 😂

[fierce ruin]

So Cheap Silica and Cat Circuit Boards don't go into 45.
Both of those, plus anything with a 2.8125 (HMFs, Turbos) doesn't go into 60.
And Rubber/Plastic still have their own little 81-based world.

[ashen girder]

How many of them fit cleanly into 270?

Because suddenly Mk3 makes so much more sense. 😂

[fierce ruin]

45 handling everything but 2 items in the game is... incredible.

45 * 6 = 270

[ashen girder]

60 doesn't tho. 😦

[fierce ruin]

Yup.

[wintry aurora]

Yea, that's a hell of a coincidence, if it is one.

[fierce ruin]

Time for another reddit post.... 😏

[ashen girder]

I'd be mighty surprised if it is.

Game designers love their spreadsheets.

[fierce ruin]

Reddit post does mean I have to check every single recipe though... 😦

Things to do when I get home.

[ashen girder]

😂 Yeah, they're worse than us.

[wintry aurora]

Mh, maybe I'll go with 132 generators instead.

[fierce ruin]

Every belt other than the mk3 hates 45's though, lol.

[ashen girder]

Can't make it easy. 😉

[thorn bane]

i usually recommend 1% overproduction so if youre making enough for 133.33 that seems good

[wintry aurora]

Due to liquids not behaving sometimes? ok.

[glacial stag]

As long as your "overflow" systems are at a slightly higher elevation, the primary system will consume all of the fluid first.

You can just create a small inverted U in your pipe to achieve this and separate the primary from the overflow fairly easily.

[thorn bane]

due to the load bug

[fierce ruin]

To a degree it does make it easier.
780/45 = 17.333_.
So if you just have 17 machines/lines per belt you never hit the 780 so you have less "max capacity" issues.

[ashen girder]

I was actually wondering if maybe that's why they chose 780.

[wintry aurora]

I think that's been fixed though, haven't noticed it in experimental. But then, the impact is going to be bigger on large setups like this.

Maybe someone with bigger setups as I do has noticed it, I dunno.

[fierce ruin]

780 goes cleanly into 60 like the mk1,2, and 4, pretty sure that combined with game limitations is why they chose it.

[ashen girder]

Fine. Be that way!

[fierce ruin]

Belts being in 60's just to fuck with the machines being in 45's DOES make sense though 😛

[thorn bane]

99% sure its not fixed since someone had issues with their closed loop some days ago

[ashen girder]

Makes it really silly then that they said Mk3 was explicitly to mess with people. 😂

[fierce ruin]

Very sensitive closed loops and large, few pipe setups will still have hiccups with it.

[wintry aurora]

Closed loops are used for aluminium plants right?

[wintry aurora]

Noted/

[ashen girder]

I'm firmly of the opinion you shouldn't use closed loops for fluids. <_<

[fierce ruin]

People most likely do things in terms of 60 because of belts, so in that sense the mk3 is fucking with people.

[ashen girder]

Oh, I got that. Hence the silliness.

[thorn bane]

no closed loop for example is 100 water -> 100 sulfuric acid -> 100 water with non-fissile uranium
anything thats connected to a water source is fine

[fierce ruin]

Aye.

If you're trying to exact that loop with no connected outside water though... problems.

Which is what I meant by "sensitive".

[ashen girder]

"OSL". "Overly sensitive loops".

[obtuse tundra]

Holy shit I just got the electrode aluminum scrap alternate recipe. That should be insane right?

[ashen girder]

It's what I use.

[obtuse tundra]

Instead of just sinking my petroleum coke I could export it by train to somewhere with bauxite and sink the overflow. That frees up more coal for other uses

[fierce ruin]

You have extra coke just lying around?

[wind spade]

you could also just burn petroleum coke in coal gens if you want to free more coal

or use it for coke steel

[obtuse tundra]

I don't ever use it lol, I refine it to get rid of HOR and sink it

[fierce ruin]

You have extra HOR just lying around?!?!

[fringe pawn]

The purple barrels are nice decor

[fierce ruin]

Decoration isn't extra though.

[signal nimbus]

...Never heard of that one. Last I heard, every bit of oil in the world needed to be refined into HOR for the top-tier recipe combos.

[fierce ruin]

Not every bit, lol.
Not even close. Unless your goal is specifically to use all the oil on the map.

[versed violet]

Meta/Decor/RL question:
I use to put my foundries/smelters on top of buildings with no roof over them because "hot stuff needs air circulation", but is that realistic?
I wonder if they should instead be locked tight inside building, to keep/share the heat for 'lower power usage' with big ugly 'HOT zone, do not enter without asbestos suit'?
[Plus I expect the stuff to be quite heavy, so it should go on bottom of the building, right?]

[jade minnow]

A smelter is the smallest production building in the game, isn't it? And I think a refinery or a blender is heavier than a foundry

[ashen girder]

Fun fact.. if you put walls around it, the smoke will actually be contained. 😂 If you want that real "poisoned air factory" feeling.

[willow igloo]

When I contracted at a coal power plant, raw ingredients were fed to the top of the 13 story plant so that gravity could help as the coal got fed to the boilers and other ingredients were added. It's common for raw to be conveyored to the top and work their way down

[fringe pawn]

Now I just need some grime covered orphans to be pushing carts around, coughing

[ashen girder]

I honestly think it's really hard to say. I associate things like that with mass because you want them to be massive. It's expensive as heck to heat that kind of material that much, so you want it to have a buttload of thermal inertia.

[ashen girder]

Soot covered lizarddoggos!

[versed violet]

Smelter/foundry seem "dense" as in lot of metal in one plave. Constructor/assembler on other hand are just open frames. refineries are bulky too because heating.

[willow igloo]

There was so much soot at this plant, they had guys on full shifts just sweeping

[topaz hedge]

RL refineries are not one building.. and huge lol

[fringe pawn]

Ooh, soot buildup inside buildings actually would look really cool

[ashen girder]

On the one hand: refineries and blenders would be heavy on earth because of how damn heavy water is. On the other hand: liquids are hysterically not dense in this game.

[willow igloo]

Fire hazard

[topaz hedge]

explosion hazard*

[versed violet]

The train wagon bug says otherwise 🤣

[topaz hedge]

coal dust go boom.

[willow igloo]

This too, when it reaches the right particle density

[ashen girder]

They fixed it. 😛 They said it was 18x heavier than intended. Now it's 35kg/m3 which is.. not much.

1m3 of water is 1000kg. (In real life)

[versed violet]

Uh, 35kg is like compressed gas. Air is 21kg/m3 as I recall

[ashen girder]

In the game. Literally. All fluids are 35kg/m3 in Satisfactory.

Currently. 😂

[willow igloo]

1ml is 1gram. 1000 mL per L. So 1000 gram per L

[versed violet]

I got feeling the game has misplaced some commas.

[willow igloo]

However many liters in a cubic meter

[topaz hedge]

does the planet's gravity correspond with the weight of water(fluid) in this game. i think it does not. because somewhere i read that the gravity is stronger than earth.. which would mean water is heavier there no?

[ashen girder]

No, that's definitely intentional. The physical weights are pretty silly too.

[versed violet]

water would be heavier, but water would have the same mass. yay physics!

[ashen girder]

Correct.

I think the current numbers aren't mean to be remotely simulative and more a way of moving towards that.

[versed violet]

I mean contructors using 4 Mega Watts. If its just a hydraulic press, 4 Kilo Watts would make totally sense

[ashen girder]

It's definitely more than just a hydraulic press.

[versed violet]

Actually, is it confirmed trains use the cargo weight for speed now?

[ashen girder]

It's also some sort of extruder.

[ashen girder]

Pretty sure, yeah.

[versed violet]

You can use press as extruder if you press hard enough 😉

[ashen girder]

I was actually just thinking that. In the same way a lathe and a mill are the same tool, I guess an extruder and a die press are too. 😂

[versed violet]

[or just accept we have one generalized building concept for set of similar machines with similar functions]

[ashen girder]

That makes sense for everything but biomass and slugs.

[versed violet]

Imagine having to replace constructor with extruder when changing recipes!

[ashen girder]

Not sure I want to know how power shards are created, though.

[versed violet]

Oh, you just 'extrude' the slug contents!

[ashen girder]

Plop.

[topaz hedge]

iono. i like game as is. I try not to compare to rl. xd

[ashen girder]

Lookit the channel you're in. 😉

That's like, a third of what we do in here.

[topaz hedge]

Not really.

[versed violet]

some of us try to make the buildings at least plasible. Walls, supports etc.
Then there are those skyramp heretics.

[topaz hedge]

most of the convos in here are.. math related to game. now rl generators.. those are fun.

imagine having to pull your generators in phase with eachother or they go boom..

[versed violet]

Coal power plants? Been in local one twice.
They are using windows!

[eager solar]

imagine having to power belts

[ashen girder]

Some people want that.

[topaz hedge]

skyrampers want it.

[eager solar]

would make for an interesting game option, that's for sure

this and building overheating, also cable having their limits

[ashen girder]

The ones that I've seen want it, they want it to make long haul belts more difficult to justify.

[versed violet]

I want stackable power poles!
3 power lines on single piece, for my 3 phase factory power!

[eager solar]

sounds legit, as long as wheeled vehicles stop flying like birds

[ashen girder]

They're doing better in U5. Now they're more like awkward ladybugs.

[topaz hedge]

since machines only have 1 power input. they must be single-phase or dc x:

[eager solar]

[ashen girder]

Isn't most industrial equipment?

[versed violet]

nope

[topaz hedge]

well.. no

[ashen girder]

🤷‍♂️ I honestly don't know. 😂

[topaz hedge]

Any electric motor larger than 5hp is most often 3-phase

[ashen girder]

Huh.

[topaz hedge]

it's more efficient, cheaper. and it's a more powerful motor.

[versed violet]

Will also depend on country in question. 110V folks will have to switch earlier than 240V folks

[topaz hedge]

not really no.

3phase motors are never 120v.

they're 208-480v

[versed violet]

Unless 110V countries commonly used 20amp and thicker wires, in europe I think 16A is the max for common single phase circuits.

[topaz hedge]

I mean with large motors. 3 phase is always 208,240,277 or 480 xd

[versed violet]

400V in europe (240V single phase)?

[topaz hedge]

that's voltage to ground in europe is 240.. I have no idea if they use split-phase or not there.. if they did that'd mean the average europeian has 400-480v in their main panel o.o

[versed violet]

Exactly 400V, we use triangle or star 3 phase, not wye.
And yes, this one has all 3 phases in the main panel. Multi-tenant buildings usually get only one phase per flat.

[topaz hedge]

that's neat. seems like it would cost more. but, if you wanted to run a 10hp lathe or aircompressor for something, ig you could lol

star is wye is it not?

triangle would be delta xd.

[versed violet]

Combined with base voltage being 240(400V), you can draw around 20 KW on 3 phase 25 Amp breakers. I get horrified hearing about 100 ampt main panels from us. WHY would you need 100 amps for anything??

[topaz hedge]

100A @ 240 is 24kW

[versed violet]

I meant the 'middle-tap' thing. Not good with english terminology in electric stuff.

[topaz hedge]

xd. you're good. but for 3phase if you have 400V and 25A, that's 10kW on any 2 legs.

but if you use all 3, it's (400 * 25) *sqrt of 3 or 1.73

but the short answer as to why americans have 100A or now.. 200A main panels.. we like our air conditioners.

[versed violet]

I'm hitting why use 110V and only 2 phase power at most. Thats two factors that contribute to heavier,bulkier, more expensive wires.

(Plus having seen the abomination the US panels are, I think modern EU panels for breakers are far superior)

[topaz hedge]

I have no idea. I think it was considered safer or cheaper at one point and it just stuck around. There was once houses were built with aluminum wiring for branch circuits. Which is fine, if it's done properly, and maintained. which is wasn't so houses started burning down and it was made illegal.

[versed violet]

well, aluminium has two downsides - it gets brittle with age, requires thicker wires compared to copper, and does nasty stuff when screwed together with copper wire
Oh wait, thats three.
The upside is, that aluminium is much cheaper. So still used for feeder wire for house, when you can't afford to spend a 1k$ on a cable.

[fierce ruin]

Isn't this why they just make alclad aluminium which has the copper built in?

[versed violet]

Havent seen those around for electric wiring, my only experience has been CCA network cables, and as self respecting IT specialist my only reaction to them is screaming.

[topaz hedge]

for feeders it's fine, but the person installing those knows to use noox compound (hopefully) which protects it from oxidations. I've also used quite a bit of aluminum wire to install secondary panels in stores and whatnot because they don't want to pay for copper

[fierce ruin]

Fair.
I have never heard of alclad wiring either. Everything I know about it is its use in corrosive-resistant coatings/containers.

[topaz hedge]

I don't think it's a thing lol

[fierce ruin]

Sounds like a missed opportunity imo. 😂 But there is probably a very good materials reason why it isn't a thing.

[versed violet]

For me personally alclad means 'fake cable, stay away'.
You either use actual copper, or stick with sized-up aluminium and brass clamps.

[fierce ruin]

It's possible that the properties that make it extremely corrosive resistant also make it very non-conductive. 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

Actually, isn't aluminium more corrosion resistant?

[topaz hedge]

no

[fierce ruin]

"Alclad is a heat-treated aluminium, copper, manganese, magnesium alloy"

[fierce ruin]

Pure aluminium is, yes.

[topaz hedge]

yes, but no. aluminum is bad because it's a highly reactive metal.

[fierce ruin]

That's the very top layer of alclad. Just high-purity aluminium.

[versed violet]

Oh look, the assemblers seem to be three phase+neutral (two+two cables coming from connection point)

[topaz hedge]

what makes aluminum good, is it forms a oxide layer to it's surface that sticks and protects the metal under it. unlike iron.

[versed violet]

Iron also makes protective oxidized layer, but that layer is brittle and takes more space, so it flakes off 😉

[fierce ruin]

Thank the good Lord iron oxidizes... or hemoglobin wouldn't work 😂

We would all just.. die.

[topaz hedge]

but the oxide layer is bad for conductivity, and worse when it reacts with whatever it's bonded too. and current flowing through things has a tendency to make them react in ways they normally wouldn't.. or would take a really long time

maybe life would've found another way?

[versed violet]

Copper-globin is a thing

Think Navi actual blue blood

[crimson night]

need help quick, what percentage of constructor speed do you need to have for silica to need exactly 10 quartz

[fierce ruin]

Aye but red blood cells aren't made of copper.
So in an parallel we may be copper-dependent. In our current existence if iron stopped oxidizing we would be caput.

[versed violet]

Need or produce? If produce, just type the output amount into items/min

[fierce ruin]

Technically not possible.

[crimson night]

screaming

[fierce ruin]

Answer is a repeating decimal and the game caps at 4 decimals.

[crimson night]

do i have to overclock it using power shards?

[fierce ruin]

No, 10 would be an underclock.
Why do you need it to take only 10 though?

[crimson night]

ah, i could also make it take 20

[fierce ruin]

Again, why?

[crimson night]

i'm using a pure node using a mk.1 miner early game and need a quick source of silica, i found the answer as you said it's a repeating decimal

[fierce ruin]

Set the miner to 90 and just link it to 4 constructors.

90/min (75%)

[versed violet]

You can type 100*10/22.5 into the percent field, will be as close as game allows. Can't check without quartz at hand

[fierce ruin]

Repeating decimals though.
Put them miner down to 75% and then you get 4 constructors at 100%.
CLEAN.

[ashen girder]

I don't think that's how evolution works, but I'm not a scientist.

[fierce ruin]

I'm talking if it stopped RIGHT NOW.... Jesus....
If you go all the way back to origins and pick the "evolved over time" option then subset the "iron doesn't oxidize" rule -- then yes, things would be different in the present.

[ashen girder]

Something something rusty wine?

[versed violet]

Oh no, youre a creationist? One of folks who think supreme being just flicked their fingers and humans appeared?
[looks at his screen where the pioneer flicks his fingers to make a big-ass machine appear]

[fierce ruin]

Pretty sure wine would be entirely different in that scenario too.

[ashen girder]

Ah yes, the two breeds of human: Scientists and Creationists. 😂

[ashen girder]

Just makin' Jesus jokes over here, don't mind me.

[fierce ruin]

There are scientists who believe in intelligent design, just saying. 🤷‍♂️

That's for #off-topic-general though.

[fierce ruin]

@crimson night did this help?

[ashen girder]

😂 Last thing I'll say about it: I've never understood why Christians didn't just embrace the more Unitarian/Catholic/Agnostic view of creationism. God just, you know, invented evolution. Bam. Two birds, one stone.

[fierce ruin]

"Christian" has become a very broad term compared to its origin tbh.

[topaz hedge]

electricity.. electricity in different countries around the world.. properties of aluminum.. to the origin of life.. yup, sounds like normal convo flow xd

[fierce ruin]

Electricity flows like conversations.

Meaning: IT GOES WHERE IT WANTS TO.

😏

[oblique hollow]

Technically the aluminum we use is Silumin

[ashen girder]

We never talk about the real world in here. 😉

[fierce ruin]

This is going to be fun to google...

[topaz hedge]

electricity does take ALL paths. so ig that checks out lol

[ashen girder]

"Silumina" is apparently a Sri Lankan newspaper?

[oblique hollow]

oops tiny cap

there, should be enough

[topaz hedge]

hey, default aluminum recipe uses silica too in the foundry. that's kinda cool actually

[oblique hollow]

theres also Alusil

[ashen girder]

I hate scientists naming things.

[fierce ruin]

I am on that page currently, lol. You didn't have to grab the cliff notes.

[fierce ruin]

STOP.

[oblique hollow]

BURN

[ashen girder]

"We can't use Silumin because it's already taken. Alusil it is I guess."

[fierce ruin]

Just let me read it myself dad.....

[topaz hedge]

i like the cliff notes. cbf to read about that stuff anymore xd

[ashen girder]

I guess "Alusil" is better than "EN AC-AlSi17Cu4Mg". That one just rolls right the fuck off the tongue.

[fierce ruin]

They nailed the alclad recipe though by forcing the copper in there.

[ashen girder]

Kinda weird they call it alclad though. 😂

[deft lichen]

Alclad aluminum is apparently a trademark

[ashen girder]

It's cookware isn't it?

[deft lichen]

it's a variant of duralumin which is an aluminum+copper alloy

[fierce ruin]

Try airplanes?

[oblique hollow]

turbomotors use a lot of aluminum, and engine blocks are apparently the main thing made from Silumin / Alusil

[ashen girder]

They're expensive though. 😦

[versed violet]

hey, lets call it Mithril !

[fierce ruin]

Funny, my turbo motor recipe only needs aluminium because of the packaged nitrogen gas. 😏

[topaz hedge]

Maybe I want a cast iron engine block instead.

[ashen girder]

I like that we can build engines pre-fitted with NOS canisters, though. 😂

[fierce ruin]

Wait. RCU's force Al too... damn.
But the MOTOR doesn't take any 😛

[ashen girder]

So, just to make sure I got my words straight: "alclad" just means aluminum cladding an aluminum alloy, right?

[fierce ruin]

In a nutshell, yes.

[ashen girder]

"duralumin" is just a specific copper-aluminum alloy that was commonly used in the "alclad" product.

[wind spade]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alclad

[ashen girder]

It's almost like I just read that and I'm checking that I understand wtf I just read. THANKS!

[fierce ruin]

Alclad is specific to having a pure Al layer around the alloy.

[oblique hollow]

if i google alclad all i get is a trademarked pigment paint

[ashen girder]

Yeah, strong feeling "alclad" as it was in the 1920s isn't in use anymore.

Even if we do still use aluminum clad paneling/sheeting.

[fierce ruin]

Probably changed/adjusted the alloy inside, but the term still meaning pure Al layer on top is the main part of its use.

[oblique hollow]

sooooo maybe alcoa suffered from the same fate the walkman did in certain countries

[topaz hedge]

it says that modern airplanes are a mix of unclad and alclad parts

[ashen girder]

Ngl, when I saw alclad, I thought "all-clad".

[fierce ruin]

Hip-clipped CD player with anti-skip technology is the GOAT bruh.

[oblique hollow]

if a trademark name becomes too generalized, companies can lose the trademark

[ashen girder]

The company trademark that is still relevant. 😂

[fierce ruin]

Don't even get me started on how much I love my ZUNE @oblique hollow .
😏

[ashen girder]

You have the classic shit brick? 😂

[fierce ruin]

😄

[warm sphinx]

i have 5 rows of 120 iron ore each that needs to get smelted into a smelter, how can i do this setup with manifold part?

[fierce ruin]

30 per smelter... so 4 per row?

[warm sphinx]

ya but what would be an easy setup?

[fierce ruin]

5 rows with a mk2 feeding the 4 smelters?

Or do you have access to higher belts?

[warm sphinx]

no, mk2 is highest

for 2 lines

[fierce ruin]

Then just do the 5 rows of 4. Idk how to make that simpler.

[tropic hawk]

so 600 Iron ore/min total?

[warm sphinx]

ya but i think i got an design, i need 1 floor for plates, 1 floor for screws, 1 floor for the reinforced iron plates, 1 floor for screws 1 floor for rods 1 floor for rotors and 1 floor for iron wire

[tropic hawk]

ok. Just trying to make sure that we are all understanding. you just need 5 groups of smelters, each group has 4 smelters, or you can set up 2 rows of 10, and using item elevators and manifolds, progessively feed each belt with ore and just feed 2 long lines

[warm sphinx]

yes i think

[tropic hawk]

cool. glad I could help

[fringe pawn]

What's a 'sweet spot' goal for sink points? The approximate number of points unlock many things, but not all of them in the shop. I realize this is absurdly subjective. I'm mostly curious how long it would take using only silica. Even for all non-statues, the endgame production of 40k points from 2 normal silica nodes is pretty darned good, and 18k points when you're limited to Mk3 belts and Mk2 miners is also pretty good.

[ashen girder]

It takes a couple hundred coupons to buy everything else so.. that many?

[fringe pawn]

Even when you're limited by Mk2 belts, 240 quartz per minute minute is 400 silica and 8000 points. That'll get you over 200 tickets in a day and a half of runtime. And of course that gets better over time.

[fierce ruin]

Real pioneers sink leaves.

That's the calculation.
How many leaves have to be sunk to unlock everything?

😂

[fringe pawn]

At least flowers are worth 10 points each, are you allowed to sink those as you get them, too? 😦

[fierce ruin]

No. 🙂

[fringe pawn]

Wait, oops. I totally missed a zero on the sink points for 200 tickets. The chart I'm looking at isn't using any digit separators.

I knew that was too good to be true. Not that silica by itself isn't good to start, but silicon circuit boards as soon as you can.

[fierce ruin]

Caterium Circuit Boards only for this pioneer.

[fringe pawn]

1,813 tickets for everything? So around 110 billion points, which means 3x as many leaves a third as many leaves 🤦‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

Now just to ask Hannah if there are even 35 billion leaves in the game 🙂

[fringe pawn]

If not, that's gonna need a lot of doggo petting.

[fierce ruin]

Can't pet them, too busy bashing their skulls in.

[fringe pawn]

400 silica and 8000 points per minute does get you 50 tickets in under 5 hours, so that's a solid start.

[light trout]

Good grief, setting up the North Coast oil for Blender Turbo Power is a monumental effort

I am ready to begin building 270 fuel generators >_<

At least the fuel generators won't take as much time, per generator, to setup as the fuel blenders, they only need one input and no output aside from power

[vast jungle]

do you go "dilluted fuel => turbofuel" or "turbo-blended fuel" ?

[light trout]

I should have done this in smaller chunks

diluted fuel in blender

Turbo Blend Fuel

[vast jungle]

I am thinking about the similar things at the moment... I am still stuck at Coal Power (I am currently Tier 5/6, so no blender at the moment) and thinking about the right way and time to transition to Fuel/Turbofuel power

Fuel production without Diluted Fuel looks especially horrible ^^

[light trout]

I've procrastinated way too long on rebuilding my starter base with a good mall and production

Power was my real reason so decided to go for broke

But ... that conveyor spaghetti mess of my base is going to have a tough time building the components I need for 270 fuel generators

[vast jungle]

If I were Tier 7, this would be my plan:

270 Oil => 360 Hor + 180 Resin (9 Refineries)
60 Hor => 120 Fuel (2 Blender)
60 Hor => 180 Pet.Coke (2 Refineries)
120 F.+240 Hor+180 P.C. => 360 Turbofuel (8 Blender)
=> 80 Fuel Generators
=> 12 GW

270 Generators... thats a LOT of power

[light trout]

I need 1350 computers, 4050 motors, 13500 rubber and 13500 quickwire

Turbo blended fuel generates 45 turbo fuel/min per blender

The fuel generators only burn 4.5 turbo fuel/min

So each blender running at full supports 10 generators

[vast jungle]

yeah

(my plan would be 8 blenders and 80 Generators, keep it "smaller" 😉 )

[light trout]

I've got 27 blenders for the final step (plus 4 creating Diluted Fuel)

Actual output from the oil pumps without overclocking will only sustain 26⅔ blenders

So I guess technically I only need to built 267 fuel generators

wow, save myself from 3

[vast jungle]

its always a good idea to overclock resource extractors

unless its a rare node and you have MK3 miners 😉

[light trout]

except not even overclocked, this is super tedious building all this out

[vast jungle]

at some point it might be easier to build a large nuclear setup, yes...

[light trout]

I have to use 2 pipelines for crude because I only have Tier 2 which supports 600m³, but I'm pumping 1140m³

Nuclear scares me a bit

I have the tech

[vast jungle]

since the Particle-Accelerator=>no-Waste route its okay...

you just need a good way to run your factory empty to get it non-radioactive if you need to change something

[light trout]

I want to build a robust, clean base with a mall setup first, wipe out my starter

I will need a lot of power, the improved alternate recipes for ingots requiring water consume more power, and as it was my power was iffy

[vast jungle]

yeah... all these Refineries 😉

my problem is I have only 3.2 GW of coal power at the moment and I am not sure I want to add more...

[topaz hedge]

Nuclear is more mw per machine vs turbofuel if you count the reactors and fuel gens.

But it's a pretty huge undertaking to get it all built.

[vast jungle]

yeah, the build chains are both complex and long... especially if you want to sink the waste

[topaz hedge]

Turbofuel is much simpler, and less headache

[vast jungle]

what I am confused at the moment is that Turbo-Blended Fuel doesn't seem to be that much better than Dilluted normal Fuel

1/3 more power and similar number of machines

is it worth the effort?

[wind spade]

The default uranium only chain is fine imo

[topaz hedge]

That's what I've been wondering too Henning. Diluted fuel with blenders is so simple and the burn rate for fuel was halfed with u4

[vast jungle]

and no need for Sulfur and Coal

AND you have some "waste" Resin you can use for some optional plastic/rubber stuff (with a smart sink of course)

[light trout]

Turbo Blended can use diluted

Does need sulfur

[vast jungle]

it does... but its still comparable to diluted normal fuel

[topaz hedge]

Turn blended uses coke.. no coal

[vast jungle]

ahh yes

[light trout]

Yes but it does use sulfur

[vast jungle]

270 Oil => 12 GW with Turbo-Blended Fuel with Diluted Fuel
270 Oil => 9 GW with Diluted Fuel

[topaz hedge]

and less stuff to build..

[vast jungle]

my problem is I NEED additional power to get through Tier 5&6 before I can even get the Blender

[topaz hedge]

Maybe someone needs to take that math and go to the QA and ask them to increase turbofuel unit energy so it'll consume 3 a miunte.

[vast jungle]

does someone want to check these numbers? each for 270 Crude Oil (because nice ratios mostly):

Fuel (w.o. Diluted Fuel): 3 GW, 15 Refineries
Turbofuel (w.o. Diluted Fuel): 6.6 GW, 26 Refineries
Fuel (Diluted Fuel): 9 GW, 21 Refineries or 9 Refineries + 4 Blenders
Turbo Blended Fuel (w. Diluted Fuel): 12 GW, 11 Refineries + 10 Blenders
Turbofuel (Diluted Fuel): 20 GW, 53 Refineries or 41 Refineries + 4 Blenders

in this, Diluted Fuel suddenly really looks nice with Blenders

(and it reminds me of all the effort I had in my first playthrough with my two packaged-diluted-turbofuel powerplants ^^)