#math-and-meta

1 messages Β· Page 557 of 1

thorn bane
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hard to compare resource efficiency cause one doesnt use coal

wind spade
muted crypt
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relative percentage of material usage

wind spade
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seems like you don't have enough rod constructors

thorn bane
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going by WR is nice as an initial guess but it doesnt mean a recipe is good or bad

wind spade
signal anvil
fierce ruin
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yes

muted crypt
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bolted plates for example, for the sheer output per minute per machine at the cost of slightly more resources

signal anvil
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oh and for some reason I used 2/m for reinforced iron plates as well, screwing up my complete calculationπŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ

muted crypt
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I remember I wrote this down a while ago as a sort of startup reference sheet

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Assuming base recipes for everything:

30 iron/min -> 20 iron plate/min
15 iron/min -> 15 iron rod/min
10 iron/min -> 40 screw/min
60 iron/min -> 5 reinforced iron plate/min
45 iron/min -> 4 rotor/min
48 iron/min -> 2 modular frame/min
46.5 iron/min -> 2 smart plating/min
20 copper/min -> 10 copper sheet/min
15 copper/min -> 30 wire/min
30 copper/min -> 30 cable/min
45 limestone/min -> 15 concrete/min

30 iron/min, 30 coal/min -> 20 steel pipe/min
60 iron/min, 60 coal/min -> 15 steel beam/min
157.5 iron/min, 45 coal/min, 40 copper/min -> 5 motor/min
96 iron/min, 96 coal/min, 90 limestone/min -> 6 encased industrial beams/min
180 iron/min, 120 coal/min -> 5 versatile framework/min
11.25 iron/min, 11.25 coal/min, 50 copper/min -> 2.5 automated wiring/min

Items in bold are stuff for the space elevator.

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it's been helpful

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I don't THINK anything has changed since I wrote it down

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it's just tiers 1-4, but still

thorn bane
muted crypt
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oic

thorn bane
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and i feel like its kinda similar with coal because youre only using coal for steel anyway so its hard to go for the weighting

fierce ruin
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but for steeled frame, it's way more simple: normal frame use only iron that is almost never a limiting factor. The main thing of steeled frame is if you want to sve on building number

thorn bane
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well it is if you use iron wire

fierce ruin
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i use iron wire, and i'm far of missing iron

thorn bane
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but are you capped out on coal

fierce ruin
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not completly, i still have some on my map; but i also have iron there. And in place where i use coal it's often a limiting factor and i have iron left.

gloomy palm
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before and after enabling VSYNC lel

unknown.png
thorn bane
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cries in under 60fps

gloomy palm
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x) well my monitor is 50Hz so technically im getting under 60fps also

muted crypt
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50 hz monitor... oh geez

gloomy palm
#

well, i set it that way on purpose

muted crypt
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πŸ€”

gloomy palm
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my power grid is 50Hz, so i thought it was a good excuse to take off some stress from my GPU

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can't tell the difference anyway

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power grid, monitor and GPU operating at the same frequency was nice on my OCD as well

charred ledge
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how much time did this take josh

unknown.png
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why

solid stream
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"atleast 2"

signal anvil
bronze silo
signal anvil
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I unlocked cast screws so I ended up reworking the rotor part to this (2x5/m to match it with reinforced plates):

unknown.png
bronze silo
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very nice

signal anvil
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with the possibility to mirror it on the bottom left

unknown.png
wind spade
finite star
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Shoot

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I just glance at the M’s and mix them up sometimes my bad

frank willow
gloomy palm
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50fps is around 60 degrees and 60fps reaches around 80 degrees

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uncapped FPS causes crashes and overheating

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so maybe my hardware just can't handle that πŸ€”

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it is a bit old

frank willow
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oh

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well if it overheats you have a problem

bleak coral
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that's an issue with your cooling setup

frank willow
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cuz my hardware can handle max without overheating

bleak coral
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how old is your GPU anyway? modern GPUs throttle first to avoid overheating

frank willow
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oeh

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i got my pc 6/2020

gloomy palm
frank willow
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mine too

gloomy palm
frank willow
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i have 3 fans on the graphics card and 3 fans inside the case

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and 75% is 50Β°C

gloomy palm
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it's nowhere near the death temperature

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which would be somewhere around 100 or 110 degrees C

frank willow
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with "death" you mean shutting off

gloomy palm
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Yep

frank willow
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right

gloomy palm
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mine never goes more than 80-84

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fans rev up a lot at that point

frank willow
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i have a radeon rx 580 series

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which goes i guess 80 % with middle config

gloomy palm
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my GPU is not overclocked

frank willow
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mine neither

gloomy palm
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I used to have it overclocked but I realized that actually there was no stable overclocke after the clock it came with since it was the OC edition

frank willow
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huh

gloomy palm
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they ship already overclocked cards

frank willow
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I dont know, im not an Hardware expert

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do u use dragon center

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for the fans

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or afterburner

woven shuttle
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Its nvidia

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Imma guess nvidia ctrl panel

frank willow
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i have a amd but nvidia programm too

gloomy palm
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MSI afterburner is pretty good

frank willow
frank willow
gloomy palm
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nowadays I mostly use afterburner because of the pop out customizable sensor graph tool window

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I use it to monitor for benchmarks or gaming

frank willow
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anyways i gotta go off

gloomy palm
#

same

frank willow
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its late

gloomy palm
#

nice chat!!

frank willow
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you too

gloomy palm
#

πŸ˜πŸ‘ goodnight

frank willow
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have sweet dreams πŸ˜‹

gloomy palm
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you tooooo hehe

coarse forge
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So I have 4 x MK1 in 120 Iron and every furnace is 30 per minute and I dont even have max furnance like Every miner should be able to get 4 furnaces working but I only got 10 insted of 4 for each one..

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And I am getting less than what It should.

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So yeah, thats why I am resetting a 6th time

wise grove
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Are the nodes pure nodes? go check them.

coarse forge
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Yeah 4 pure nodes with Mk1 miners

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120 x Minute each

wise grove
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Northern Forest? 4x pure iron, 2x pure copper and 1x pure limestone?

coarse forge
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Yeah.

wise grove
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Okay, but that info was just for me. I know where you are and yes, the nodes are pure. Do you use MK2 belts?

coarse forge
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All Mk2 belts

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and still a lot of emptyness

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so Resetting and starting again

wise grove
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before you do so ... mind if I hop in and take a look in person? Just DM me the session ID

coarse forge
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Already removed everything but I can invite you if you want

past granite
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Hey guys how to i make a split so i can go a 5 - 3/2 instead of a 5 - 2.5/2.5

wise grove
wise grove
bronze silo
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Manifolds FTW!

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neat, tidy and a space saver too!

summer fox
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when dealing with train transport is the max item limited by mk 5 as anything more would get it backed up over time? like how do you factor in distance to make sure it runs smoothly

bleak coral
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!wikisearch electric locomotive

shadow prairieBOT
bleak coral
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there's the math on that page, but yeah basically you time the trip and you can get a stacks/min time, which can translate into your parts per minute which'll be different depending on the item's stack size

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and max per car is <2x mk5

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that's cause the belts stop during loading/unloading, so you need an ISC to buffer the items, and the max transfer rate for that is 2x mk5 between the platform and the ISC, and you need that to be faster than the needed transfer rate of the train so all the items get offloaded before it gets back

opal fulcrum
muted crypt
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Over some arbitrary number of iterations it will ultimately balance out to 60/40 split (3/2) rather than 50/50 (2.5/2.5).

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@thorn bane I saw you typing a few minutes ago btw, lurker smh

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come talk some random satismathtory topic with me

thorn bane
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ye i was thinking isnt that system stable as soon as the belts fill up?

muted crypt
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as soon as they fill, ye

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it's almost like that's how manifolding works

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but this is just manifolding with extra steps

fierce ruin
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the problem with that setup is that it doesn't work if your input belt is full (or close).

muted crypt
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I did mention this

fierce ruin
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a solution for any input throughput would be this:

unknown.png
muted crypt
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yup

thorn bane
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seems that also works for balance merging for sushi belts
probably should have used this one

unknown.png
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belt is 20% concrete 80% wire

muted crypt
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may I ask what the purpose of this is

unknown.png
fierce ruin
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what do you mean by priority merging here ? what line is prioritize other another one ? because the only priority merging i know is using train

thorn bane
thorn bane
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purpose is to feed 1 manufacturer with 1 belt

fierce ruin
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that still can fail, the main thing that make it more reliable than a single smart splitter is that the system acts kinda like a bigger buffer and help to prevent problems

thorn bane
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well ive had it run for 5 days and it didnt fail

fierce ruin
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even a system with just a smart splitter and a bit of buffer can work without failing if your input is well balanced

frosty owl
frosty owl
fierce ruin
thorn bane
frosty owl
clever cedar
#
  1. Assume there are 3 players from US EU AND RU and they are connecting to same game. Distance between US & EU and EU & RU are the same and EU player is hosting the game. They all have same computer and connection.
    a) Is there any difference between US & RU players as connection speed in terms of ms? Why?
    b) If meridians of players different is it effect connection between them? How and why?
    c) Distance between Satisfactory main servers and host how effects the game and how effects US & RU players if they have different distance to Satisfactory servers?
    There will be a second question after answers. Thank you if anyone interested to answer.
muted crypt
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it's not that I'm not interested in answering it's that I don't know how to answer, but now I'm curious just for the sake of knowledge

wind spade
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I'd say 95% of results depend on player connections

bleak coral
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I don't have solid answers for most of the stuff, but general knowledge that could point you in the right direction for googling.

a) Technically it's not just about distances but alao the infrastructure inbetween. Like how good that cable running under the atalantic is vs whatever is between you and russia kind of thing. Also a very real possibility that you're underestimating how far the US is from you compared to Russia. Or the reverse. They're both very big countries.
b) electrical signals do have a speed, so farther away means it takes longer
c) should only affect connecting to the game, game is peer to peer after initial connection

And also what greeny said, gonna depend on how good each player's ISP is. And also their local connection, like how good their wifi is.

sacred epoch
#

Tier 1-4 what's the best thing to put in the sink?

thorn bane
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ai limiters

fierce ruin
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elevator part are usually good, and things for catrium or quartz

thorn bane
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ye quartz stuff is good aswell if you have access to it

wind spade
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automated wiring

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actually, no. Heavy modular frame is best

thorn bane
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hm 100 automated wiring is the same as 150 ai limiters

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there is no way thats worth

wind spade
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well I assumed best = gives most sink points πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

thorn bane
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well best per minute im assuming

wind spade
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wdym by best per minute?

thorn bane
#

most sink points per minute

wind spade
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well that's the same about sink points per item, right?

oblique hollow
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circuit boards are real great

thorn bane
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but some things are harder to produce so you dont get as high items/min
for example HMFs

fierce ruin
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sink point / item doesn't take into account how easy it's to produce a lot of that item

oblique hollow
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circuit boards are, with the right alts, the easiest to cash off of

fierce ruin
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if i can produce 10 time more of an item that get half of the item value, i would go for that

thorn bane
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arent those above tier 1-4 though?

oblique hollow
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yea

wind spade
thorn bane
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i guess highest sink points/min per building

oblique hollow
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if you ignore all prduction lines after a machine and assume they run at 250% and 100% input efficient, then its assembler or manufacturer

thorn bane
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no i mean for the whole production chain from ore

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for e xample would be (5*920)/(3+1+4.16666)

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

what exactly do you mean there

sacred epoch
oblique hollow
#

yea

thorn bane
#

now compare that to HMFs which is (2*11520)/(9.66667+4.55555+31.83333+9.66667+1) which is lower

oblique hollow
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ive made a "least effort for decent points" setup once and its definitely Silicon Circuit Boards

thorn bane
#

but yeah kinda sucks that manufacturer=consturctor with this metric

wind spade
#

I'd say weighted materials with inclusion of power production would be the best

oblique hollow
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uranium has by far the biggest inflation compared to the invested effort

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i once calculated all material point values if you ONLY paid attention to the production line complexity

thorn bane
oblique hollow
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nuclear pasta exploded in that regard

wind spade
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all the ratios are based on non-alt recipes which are x2 points

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so it's basically the same as weighted raw resources

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(since raw resources give points roughly equal to their weight)

oblique hollow
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space elevator parts definitely have some "elevator" multiplier behind them

thorn bane
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i dont think so

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its just that they are the most complex so they give more

oblique hollow
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i did the math behind them. sorta

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for unweighted production complexity

wind spade
oblique hollow
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guess thats resource weight coming back in.....

wind spade
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[240 (stator) + 20*24 (wire)] * 2 = 1440 (automated wiring)

thorn bane
wind spade
#

yeah, all of them have 2 as improvement ratio, which is true for all non-alt recipes (excluding stuff like packing/unpacking)

oblique hollow
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lets see... according to my odd calc: the parts that have the most points for least building effort are:
Aluminum Scrap
Silica
Aluminum Casings
Cooling System
Heat Sink
aaaand then Uranium and Plutonium Rods

wind spade
#

interesting, how did you value "effort" in your calculations?

oblique hollow
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purely off of production line complexity

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with weights given only to machines

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miner is bottom.
then it pretty much just ascends based on how difficult it generally is do deal witht he machines or to make them

bleak coral
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personally though I find targeting specific things something that's only done pre-smart splitters and when going for the nut at the end game

wind spade
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oh, so some subjective weighting?

bleak coral
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otherwise you can just overflow your storage

oblique hollow
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yeah its pretty much subjective. i tried to account for
Power Demand Average
Footprint
Dealing with connections

wind spade
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yeah no problem, was just asking πŸ™‚

oblique hollow
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manufacturer is pretty high up.

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only thing that pumped accelerator up is the power unpredictability and massive size and cost

unknown.png
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these have absolutely no objective meaning

thorn bane
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can you share the spreadsheet?

oblique hollow
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if you can read german, sure

thorn bane
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yep

last totem
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i still have the same map back when update 2 released and my save crashes a lot when playing. I try everything to stop the game from crashing but nothing is working so what do I do now

wind spade
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well first of all, don't spam the message πŸ™‚

oblique hollow
thorn bane
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ty

oblique hollow
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you do not want to know the math behind this xd

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i did some gross assumptions

thorn bane
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thats what i wanna know xD

oblique hollow
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i pretty much did this:
assume you feed 30/min of every needed item to the machine.
then, calculate the root mean "saturation"
if 30 of every item covers all needs, its 1, if its more, its >1 , if its less then its <1
then multiply with some weighted machine points based on whats needed for production and boom, funny value

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this is the inflation ratio. the bigger it is the more an item yields compared to effort invested

unknown.png
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elevator items are inflated in my calc cuz i gave them a 1,75 multiplier

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else things like smart plating wouldnt be worth their points

thorn bane
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i think your table is off by one

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the row for nuclear pasta has 2.5, 1, 3, 1 as inputs

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ok im just lost

oblique hollow
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its not the pasta input

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i sorted the values after i was done in descending order

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so all the math is in the incorrect rows

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the math for pasta is in row 3

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while the final pasta value is in row 1

thorn bane
#

ah ok

oblique hollow
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if you sort the values so the original values descend, then it should be in the right order again

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the math you mentioned was for thermal propulsion

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even though it has a saturation of 32863%, its way below nuclear pasta which only has 424%

past granite
#

@muted crypt That worked great, also what software are you using to draw that.

muted crypt
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draw.io, it's online or a downloadable program

signal anvil
#

Got my new modular frame assembly line up and running but it seems it's lacking somewhere anybody who can spot a problem? (one of the modular frame assemblers was running at ~70%)

unknown.png
clever cedar
#

Check the belts between mk3 and iron/screws.

lapis bronze
kind wigeon
#

beautiful

oblique hollow
#

thats why you dont use Satisfactory Calculator for that xd

thorn bane
#

tbf satisfactorytools can get pretty big too
it just all depends on how complex your goal is

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

yeah but it doesnt get clogged with splitters and mergers everywhere

thorn bane
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how much time does OCing everything save?

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im getting ~50% of the buildings but im not sure

oblique hollow
#

well.... in theory. 2.5x less buildings for normal manufacturing machines

thorn bane
#

but more power
if i had to guess id say you spend roughly 30% building power? idk hard to say
but then again you can OC those aswell for 50% buildings

wind spade
wind spade
thorn bane
#

again
4 times more power than the base amount
but you also build 2.5x less
so its 73% more power

solid stream
#

If you're going to spend power shards on buildings other than miners, I suggest just doing it to round it to more convenient numbers

thorn bane
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im talking about people like kibitz or amelie of the sea that just overclock everything
because if you build big at somepoint you just run into issues

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either fps or Uobject limit

oblique hollow
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recipes that produce a bunch of stuff at once definitely profit from overclock

cunning vapor
#

Hey here is a chart if anyone wants to make 500 nuclear waste a minute

image0.png
oblique hollow
#

surprisingly low quality image

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absolutely unreadable

cunning vapor
#

I screenshot this on my phone

oblique hollow
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i cant even read what it says

cunning vapor
#

Let me make it better

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@oblique hollow list of items and power for it

rose ice
wind spade
#

I assume multiple lategame products

thorn bane
rose ice
thorn bane
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ye its a production for the golden cup in 1000minutes
and nuclear power

unknown.png
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i also limited myself to 3% of the resources on the map as a challenge

rose ice
muted crypt
lapis bronze
muted crypt
#

I mean, all things considered... rather than looking at the setup as a big convoluted mess, you can look at it as what it's actually doing, in production per minute:

4 Assembly Director Systems
4 Magnetic Field Generators
1 Nuclear Pasta
1 Thermal Propulsion Rocket

lapis bronze
#

nuclear pasta πŸ‘Œ 🍝

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my favorite

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plutonium penne

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radium ravioli

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francium fettuccine

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polonium pappardelle

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radon rotini

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cesium capellini

frosty owl
thorn bane
#

ye they used scim to get enough for every building and im considering making a playthrough like that
i mean technically you can use doggos but thad take a while

bleak coral
#

as let's game it out showed doggos are best reserve for waste disposal hotdoggo 😏

frosty owl
#

Considering max nuclear that is

thorn bane
#

i do like more fps

muted crypt
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fps? yes, frames pretty shitty

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the lower the better, it's like golf

thorn idol
#

I was hitting single digits when finishing up the space elevator

muted crypt
#

good

frosty owl
#

Btw, radiation in my nuclear factory is actually in ridiculous amounts, even less than I anticipated SnuttChamp

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This screen has been taken in the middle of the uranium processing part of the factory, yet there is no radiation in that point (and many others)
This is also the "front" of the factory, meaning all the back is radiation-free

Screenshot20210920-10281000000.png
thorn bane
#

yup same if you balance stuff then the radiation is minimal

frosty owl
#

Didn't think it would get this good, honestly praisethesun

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Radiation visualized in SCIM. It doesn't even pick up any radiation from the left side unless you really zoom in on the single machines.
The big radiation blob is from the uranium in the unloading station and connected storages

Cattura.JPG
wind spade
#

SCIM isn't really accurate in showing radiation

frosty owl
#

Seems accurate enough to me. It still picks up the minimal radiation from the UFR and cells manifacturers (UFR in picture)

Cattura.JPG
thorn bane
#

are you making plut. rods? those were the worst for me

frosty owl
#

No, none of those yet. Those are supposed to be much worse πŸ˜†

mint spruce
muted crypt
#

SCIM, listed in the pins

mint spruce
#

thanks

muted crypt
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Second link

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Should I work on more of these tonight?

ProofOfConceptManifolding.png
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Also greeny I never did upload anything to the wiki the other day lol

empty glade
#

So long as your lines are all the same length

muted crypt
#

They are, I promise - I made the original system blank and copied it, then filled in text as needed

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Are there any requests for manifold layouts to make diagrams for?

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Dunno if there's anything special, these are meant to be proof of concept anyway

empty glade
#

Probably some noob setups... everyone else knows how to expand a basic manifold setup.

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The one progression one should be enough to show the concept.

muted crypt
#

Hmm, fair enough

frosty owl
muted crypt
#

Guess I could, yeah

crude canyon
#

So with manifold setups, as long as I let all the factories fill up before starving them up, and they aren’t using more than provided, I should be fine?

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Last time I tried manifold i started everything up before feeding in materials and it never balanced out.

muted crypt
#

so long as total input >= total consumption you should be good

faint raft
#

im brand new to this game can anyone help me on a new world

wind spade
muted crypt
wind spade
muted crypt
#

That too

muted crypt
#

@oblique hollow has your thing been approved by Jace yet

unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

i can ask him lol

muted crypt
#

πŸ™

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also I don't wanna be that guy but I found a typo lol

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didn't even mean to find it

frosty owl
#

Now do the best thing ever: just say there is one and not where or what it is.
yes

muted crypt
#

genius.

paper yacht
#

Don't think this supposed to stack like this

20210920_183518.jpg
faint ember
#

That there's what we call a critical mass

versed violet
#

They stack to 200, 100 is the amound manufacturer needs in one go.

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Once its done making the rod, it removes 100 pieces of candy at once

paper yacht
#

Thanks first time ever noticed this πŸ˜„

versed violet
#

It is one of few recipes that use 100's of something

frosty owl
#

And the reason why my Rods manifacturers are fed by two belts instead of one -.-

narrow forum
dark summit
#

Finally a way to get rid of the gas pillars

solid stream
sterile kayak
dark summit
#

We have floating concrete realism isn’t that great a deal

sterile kayak
#

True

thorn bane
boreal wyvern
# muted crypt Should I work on more of these tonight?

So given manifold designs like above, wouldn't just prebuffering the entire manifold setup fix most of the starvation issues? I know it takes time, but I usually spend that time prefilling on building something else instead.

thorn bane
#

or disconnecting the output so it fills up
but yeah same i just do something else

faint ember
#

Single oil node overcharged to 600, poly resin meta

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10 refineries make 1300, 11 plastic refineries and 16 rubber refineries use the full 1300

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If my highest belts are only 480/min, what should that look like?

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The calculator doesn't seem to figure that out, it tells me to combine everything into a single 1300/min merger

wind spade
faint ember
#

Of the calculator? I closed the tab

empty glade
wind spade
faint ember
#

SCIM

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Best I can figure is to combine three refineries into one belt and spread those out, then have the last one on an overflow belt, and let imbalances sort themselves out.

wind spade
#

oh, I found it sometimes recommending pretty weird splitter combinations

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tbh I'd rather use a tool that doesn't tell me how to do splitters, so I can decide for myself

empty glade
faint ember
#

What's that look like?

empty glade
#

!wikisearch manifold

shadow prairieBOT
faint ember
#

Oh, right, that

#

I use that pretty regularly, but I'm just figuring out where the injection should come from and where it should go (Cotton Eyed Joe)

lapis bronze
#

(IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR COTTON EYED JOE)

oblique hollow
#

i would have merged belts a long time ago

thorn bane
#

is there an easy way to make a belt balancer on a vertical belt like this?

unknown.png
wind spade
#

balancers 🀒

burnt wraith
burnt wraith
#

and then 3 straight across in the middle

thorn bane
#

ty

signal nimbus
#

...the clipping...

sand epoch
#

it's great, isn't it? πŸ™‚

empty glade
#

Maybe something like the old priority setup? Split down, then split up?

thorn bane
faint ember
#

Make them straight up, then

unborn condor
#

@burnt wraith Aweeome build! Props!! That definitely took a while.
Personally, I'd have to place those inverted belts across the outside with supported poles at certain sections, because my OCD levels cannot handle such mechanical collisions xD

paper yacht
burnt wraith
#

my OCD is fine with clipping, but hates imbalanced machines

unborn condor
#

@burnt wraith Amazing work. Learned a lot just viewing that. Never knew clipping could be done this way!

#

@burnt wraith Lmao ew imbalanced machines! I feel you there brother.

#

@burnt wraith I've done a few odd underclocks just to match quantity per second. Will obviously have to constantly re-do the maths once unlocking future materials and miner overclocking etc. Heh. Long slope ahead

paper yacht
#

When Update 5 hits It will be like master Yoda saying " You must unlearn what you learned" @#$% off Yoda !

unborn condor
#

LMAO yeah! Those power lines have to match up with positions, even if it involves more of them than needed eh?

#

@paper yacht Do you know yet what's added for Update 5?

#

@paper yacht I prefer the circular wall power plugs from the awesome store at further vertical extensions.
Of course, there is only a certain limit to these without clustering. <.<

paper yacht
#

Just from the teaser videos but I suspect there will be something JUICY they have not talked about

#

Pipes was the biggest SHOCKER ever! I'm waiting for another πŸ’£ πŸ’₯

unborn condor
#

@paper yacht Yay exciting!! xD
Love it when devs keep quiet about some updates. Surprises.🀩

paper yacht
#

Using "greeny" TOOLS on these advanced recipes takes me days to sort out the specific math break downs I am so waiting for a valve equivalent for splitters to DIAL in the amounts.

unborn condor
#

@paper yacht What is your next primary objective?
Learned a huge ton about splitters and their priority levels the past few days. May be of little use at least :)

paper yacht
#

Like many refineries when you have a need for 6.63 for a product I have to keep close eye on the amounts , Normally I would just break it down 6 ref@100% and 1 @63% but sometime the uneven amount needs to be tweaked also If the manifold belts are too long often the belt speeds need adjustments for distances.

#

Large recipe builds take me days to sort out ,placements,belt speeds ect

unborn condor
#

@paper yacht Distance equals out in the end. Space is too important.
The 63% machine, what are you producing here?

paper yacht
# unborn condor <@220071992273928192> What is your next primary objective? Learned a huge ton ab...

Changes mostly to HOW MUCH is changed for example Klepdar's builds were almost all at 50/m on higher recipes they could not progress after the last big update due to FPS issues. When Pipes we added ALL my tower builds and locations were all broken handicapped no water nearby or insane pipe /pump numbers and spacing would take a lifetime to fix. So really depends and factory places and how Updates effect unique builder profiles.

unborn condor
#

@paper yacht Agreed here. So much more is subject for change.
I'm rather sure that many save files become somewhat corrupt in future updates, due to the expansion in engine design, server-side, and client-side testing.
There is a bug where machines show 0-10% efficiency, or where it eventually decreases substantially from 100%. Only thing which fixes this is through restarting the game apparently.

paper yacht
unborn condor
#

@paper yacht Damn, this really sucks to hear about. Nevertheless, it's all experience for us hehe.
Cannot zoom on that flowchart. The text is around 12pt from my viewport xD

paper yacht
#

the link about will show the flow chart from greeny site πŸ˜„

#

I make barges in the swamp bay on nuclear setups I start with 2 corners and build out but always try to build within a tight space only expanding when I have too .

fierce ruin
#

this chat made my brain go bye

paper yacht
#

the above link I thought should fit but the placements and the extra splitter's sorters and smart devices kept running out of room to keep the math in check

unborn condor
#

@paper yacht Those extra machines over 1.5x can either be underclocked or send their materials elsewhere. To be fair, anything further machines requiring decimal points over .1 should be built and scaled down (like .1 = 10%). Many don't agree with this, but that's an extra 1/10th of items for storage, or used for other machinery.

#

Rather than creating a huge line of splitters/mergers, I'd recommend full manifold. Scale down the necessary machines to not only save power, but the resource rate consumption too.

#

Sorry, this is actually incorrect. Any extra required machinery at 1.3x is better in formula. Here, you create two machines with the second being scaled to 33%

paper yacht
#

Maybe this will look like 🍝 to some but this is the completed part of link above but due to radiation the final Manufactures are offset on another barge near the game border. Always sort a overflow on each recipe to send extra product to storage that then is split to a sink to keep from stalls.

Screenshot20210921-12365100000.png
unborn condor
#

@paper yacht Nice starting build!! Really wish mine was similar at this height right now.

oblique hollow
#

Semi organized Spaghett, lovely

unborn condor
#

My build

paper yacht
oblique hollow
#

ah

#

still could have been organized xd

#

latest (modded) thing i made

unknown.png
#

15 caterium comps

unborn condor
#

@paper yacht I spent over two hours earlier wondering why belts were bottlenecking. Saturation levels soon became too overwhelming haha.
Turned out, I forgot a splitter for one constructor.
I make a habit of deleting all other resources in machines to start fresh. Sometimes saves the efficiency waiting times.

paper yacht
#

This took me 3 days to sort out . Mostly vanilla Smart!,EFF,and Super Chainsaw everything else is made on demand but If I build via creative or full fly mode you loose a lot of the game experience.

oblique hollow
#

the only thing modded i got here is a few recipes

paper yacht
#

Greeny's Tools are like a Radio Shack Electronic Set for me the challenge to get all the placements and math to sort out in the flow chart πŸ™‚

unborn condor
#

Looking up flowcharts is the best approach, although, I'd never use them either understanding the logic.

#

@paper yacht Yours is very good!

#

I'll create and few diagrams of for tier1-5 items later. Loving the designs.
Mostly I use as an example for further tiers etc.

#

All machines are at 100% consistently, plus the layout has room for lots of future expansion (especially in Northern Forest)

paper yacht
#

@unborn condor I sometimes under-clock 2 buildings instead of overclocking from link above one Manufacturer needed 1.07 of them. You actually draw less power from 2 under-clocked buildings then to OC it to 107% ^_^

glad cloud
#

maths.

#

why maths

#

why do I need maths in playing a video game

#

i thought i escaped maths

wind spade
#

you don't need maths, but some people enjoy calculating stuff and optimising πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

glad cloud
#

i mean i like calculating stuff tho

#

get my brain working

wind spade
#

also, why would you want to escape maths lol? that's exactly why they teach that stuff in schools - you'll need it πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

bleak coral
#

I mean you do need a bit of maths for power, but you can also just overproduce there and not care

glad cloud
#

nah it is just

#

flashback

glad cloud
#

overproducing stuff then transfer it on a merger will certainly bottleneck stuff XD

#

that is for me at least, since I am still in early game XD

#

the conveyor tier is too low

summer fox
#

for transportation is it better to transport the raw stuff for biofuel or to make it then transport as genrally speaking you make more biomass than the raw resources?

glad cloud
#

i didn't get a single word out of that

wind spade
#

why would you want to transport biofuel?

summer fox
#

i`m cutting down trees etc and i wonder should i make biofuel on the spot for inventory space or to travel back to base and craft it there (automated)

glad cloud
#

uh....

#

you know you can only transport from "resource nodes" right?

wind spade
#

you can transport anything you want

glad cloud
fierce ruin
#

if he is cutting down tree, that's not automated, but all the rest can be automated

glad cloud
#

you can't fully automate biofuel, period.

#

also crafting on the spot or travelling back to base and craft is kinda the same thing

summer fox
#

i`m cutting down stuff by chain saw and i can either make it biofuel manually freeing up space to cut more down or fill inventory then put it in storage to be automated by it requires me traveling 1/2 the map

fierce ruin
glad cloud
fierce ruin
#

once you have wood/leaves, biofuel can be automated

wind spade
#

or you can just delete all the wood, unless you really need that biofuel

glad cloud
#

my method is more cutting down stuff, bring back to base to turn all of them into biomass, then dump them into the constructor loop to turn it into biofuel

#

save time

glad cloud
#

if you are not bothered by crafting for a long time, manually, then go for it

#

I advise against it

sacred epoch
#

Satisfactory Calculator tells me I need 6 miners (mk2 pure set in options. Belt speed as well) for 90 concrete.
But I'm using one mk2 miner pure node overclocked to 270, feeding 6 constructors (mk3 belts) all at 100% efficiency for 90 concrete.
What am I missing?

sour wyvern
#

what purity is it?

bleak coral
#

also the node is probably a different purity than what you set in SCIM

#

I don't know why it does it that way, part of why I don't like SCIM for production planning, since it does some weird stuff for logistics, and there's a bunch of different ways to logistics that are right

sour wyvern
bleak coral
#

scim will still split stuff based on your max belts even in simple mode though

glad cloud
#

i need some math help

#

I got 4 normal coal nodes

#

and mk1 miners

#

how many fuel does that provide to the coal generator?

wind spade
#

60/min per miner

glad cloud
#

how many does coal generator burn each min?

wind spade
#

15

#

(you can get all this info by opening the machines)

glad cloud
#

i did

#

but the coal gen need to get powered before it show anything really

#

i did open it up but it didn't give me anything

wind spade
#

then power it lol

#

alternatively, there's a wiki or online tools that you can use to figure stuff out

glad cloud
#

also does water extractor stacks?

fierce ruin
#

what do you mean by that ?

glad cloud
#

like does the pipeline connect all the extractor, and the fluid combine to an accumulate amount

fierce ruin
#

as long as you don't exceed pipe max flow, yes

gloomy palm
#

didn't know the game had badword in it thinking_helmet does this change the game's age rating thinking_helmet

unknown.png
thorn bane
#

if i have 3 lines of 720 quickwire and 4 factories that need ~500 each how do i balance that?

signal nimbus
#

3x 720 is 2160... just doing the quick check to make sure you have enough. You're looking for a 3:4 balancer with the caveat that you can't combine lines. So, split the lines into 2 lines of 360 each so you have 6 360 lines. Pick four to be your main input lines, and split the other two into 180 lines. Feed the 180 lines into four 360 lines.

fierce ruin
#

split 2 line in 2 each. Last line in 4, merge each of those 4 with lines from the first 2.

signal nimbus
#

Yeah this is a bit more complicated than that since they can't merge lines.

fierce ruin
#

he can, as my merge happens after a split

signal nimbus
#

You only split two of the lines.

fierce ruin
#

read again.

signal nimbus
#

The rest are still full.

#

Honestly I'm trying but it's not written very clearly.

fierce ruin
#

it's the same as you solution

signal nimbus
#

K.

empty glade
#

The reason no merging is possible is because of the 780 limit, correct? Once it's split to 360 there is plenty of ability to merge.

signal nimbus
#

Correct.

#

Otherwise a standard 3:4 splitter with a single merger to a single line to a splitter to two lines to a two-way splitter on each line would work.

thorn bane
#

well the issue is its 450/510/462/475.6 and i make exactly enough for it to even out so if i just split it to 4x 500 lines it wont even out

fierce ruin
#

another easy way with smart splitter is simply: put a smart splitter on each of your 3 lines, 1 output on "any" for feeding first 3 factory, 1 output on "overflow". Merge 3 overflow for th last factory

thorn bane
signal nimbus
#

...move the splitter.

#

You can handle this closer to the factory.

#

As for the factories and their inputs, this can overflow if there's a bit off, but honestly with that much input it won't.

#

Might even add an overflow splitter on the lines to a sink.

thorn bane
#

well i dont have any overflow is the thing
i make exactly enough for my factories

fierce ruin
#

all of your quickwire line are at least 475.6 item/min ?

empty glade
signal nimbus
#

Yeah, that's a good way to do it.

#

And ZyRaNex, you're not getting those exact numbers of input. Not easily.

wheat wagon
#

can anyone tell me how do i divide 105 of iron rods per minute to 7 constructors?

thorn bane
#

its actually 250 more but i dont need that until later

unknown.png
empty glade
shadow prairieBOT
thorn bane
#

ive done this before by using the last manifold input and sending that to another factory but that felt like a bad solution as it required lots of math

signal nimbus
#

1:7 load balancer is basically a 1:8, so one splitter to 2 lines, another 2 splitters to 4 lines, another 4 splitters to 8 lines, and then one of those lines feeds back into the input to make seven lines.

wheat wagon
#

thanks

signal nimbus
#

Or I could build it off of a 1:9, so one line to 3 lines to 3 splitters to 9 lines then feed two back into the input. Might be smaller.

fierce ruin
empty glade
thorn bane
signal nimbus
#

Never heard of that before.

cyan geyser
#

i've tried hardcore balancing but it never works out well when you want to expand. I just use the overflow manifold method. It works well enough and if you don't max out the belt it will keep up. I found its good to max out the supply for some time until everything is full then slow the supply production down

signal nimbus
#

Balancing should be recreational only, generally. I like to do it when it's easy. When it's not, I don't bother.

empty glade
# thorn bane wat

Basically, just use a splitter to go to the 2 buildings, then have a manifold within each, instead of basically extending the one manifold. It's mostly just technical names. Bus topology and manifold are both splitoffs in series. Star topology is a top-down splitting approach, usually decentralized.

thorn bane
signal nimbus
#

Yeah, he's using bigger numbers than that idea would allow for.

empty glade
#

Is this for the 3 lines?

signal nimbus
#

Yep.

empty glade
#

Maybe use a smart splitter for each line before the recombining to catch overflow, then merge?

signal nimbus
#

Or just use three before that.

thorn bane
#

ive seen this design some time ago that overflow merges the lines to the left so the left most lines are always full
issue is that im stacking my belts horizontally so that would require alot of space
the issue i have with just using an overflow splitter is that the merging can sometimes make specific lines back up

miMY5g5.png
empty glade
#

That would work too, but might as well use an injected manifold

thorn bane
empty glade
#

!wikisearch manifold

shadow prairieBOT
thorn bane
#

i dont care about the size of my manifold
i just want it to get enough reesources

empty glade
#

It acts exactly the same; it uses overflow from the first to the second, etc... then merges with the next line coming in to use the overflow to continue filling belts to the machines. Uses less space and less logistic machines.

frosty owl
thorn bane
frosty owl
#

What should be using the overflow?

thorn bane
#

another factory

frosty owl
#

... Does that factory use the items you make with quickwire too? thinking_helmet
(Trying to think if merging with the overflowing factories' output can be convenient or not)

thorn bane
#

caterium circuit boards into caterium computer so that actually works
but sadly ill switch to silicon circuit boards once i have quartz 😦
but yeah idk this just sounds like a overflow splitter with extra steps xD

frosty owl
#

It's just overflow splitting yeah ^^
I'm just suggesting where to split ahah
I find it convenient to split close to the end-user since I almost always end up using the output belt also as overflow belt, that's just how it becomes convenient to me
Depending on how you set stuff up, it might be best to split the overflow when you got all 3 belts together and merge the overflow right then and there

empty glade
#

So... sushi

#

Saves on belt, but need a smart splitter at the end

frosty owl
#

Or a programmable one yeah
"Save on belts" naturally depends a lot on how you build in the first place ^^

brittle plank
#

Hey guys, I'm wondering how detailed the pipe simulation is in Satisfactory, I'm aware of head lift, but I'm wondering mainly how the junctions work, is it just a simple 50/50 (assuming a Y split) like conveyor splitters? What happens when you combine flows from two water sources at two different ends of a junction pipe? Do they fight for who's the strongest and start pushing back the other water source, or do they just combine nicely?

frosty owl
#

Have you checked out the Piple yet? ^^
I'm not saying I don't wanna answer, it's just that most answer are probably shown and explained well there, with examples

brittle plank
#

Piple?

#

Is there a pipe bible?

frosty owl
#

The one by McGalleon

unreal osprey
#

speaking of which, just finished my first VIP, McGalleon saved my 6 brain cells

unknown.png
frosty owl
#

I hope you remembered the pump on the output pipe ^^

unreal osprey
#

of course

#

excellent guide does that

bleak coral
frosty owl
#

That's a good recap

brittle plank
#

Cool, very useful thanks πŸ‘

#

I'll definitely be studying up on my plumbing using this pipe bible as well

frosty owl
#

Or you can look it up anytime you got a doubt ^^
The sections are pretty clear

crude canyon
#

So I can power, at max 252 nuclear power plants going at 100% efficiency

#

for 630000MW

#

Should I use all the alternative recipes that the calculator tells me to use if I have them all unlocked?

unknown.png
fierce ruin
#

the calculator use the best recipes to max what you want. If you want 252 nuclear power plant, you need to use all alt listed for at least all the uranium production lines; the rest might not be needed, but will probably cost more ressourc if you don't use them.

crude canyon
#

gotcha

gloomy palm
#

is there a discord shortcut to skip to the latest message

#

on PC windows

dull bolt
#

escape

gloomy palm
#

ah nice

gloomy palm
tropic hawk
gilded coyote
#

Does anyone know if the mk2 pipe flow loss when running at max capacity is fixed on update 5?

wind spade
#

there's no mk2 pipe flow loss bug

#

there's 5m3 loss on load per fluid input and there's pipe manifolds being weird

#

and nobody knows if that's gonna be touched in U5

oblique hollow
#

there are a few other issues, one of them has to do with junctions

#

and i think the reason mk 2 pipes "cant fully transmit 600" is because of junctions

wind spade
#

yeah but iirc it has been confirmed that mk2 pipes can do 600

empty glade
#

Yeah, it's not as much a pipe bug as a machine bug.

fierce ruin
dark star
#

im piping nitrogen gas like 2km.. will i need pumps along the way? i feel like it should work fine aslong as the pipes fill up, but fluid (gas) dynamics can be fickle if theyre anything like factorio

oblique hollow
#

Nope

#

Pumps are useles for gas

dark star
#

will i still be able to pull out 600m3/min out the other end tho?

oblique hollow
#

Just be carefull. Flow rate for gas is directly proportional to the filled volume of the pipe

#

And yes, if you have mk 2 pipe and the pipe is full 100%

#

Dont use any buffers for it tho

dark star
#

im piping it from the 10 pure node well, so should be filling 2 mk2 pipes exactly

oblique hollow
#

Once its filled then yea

dark star
#

with this new information im worried that once i hook up my factory wing the flow will be less, cause its gonna pull out of the pipes, making them less full, making the flow less

#

or wait, is the proportional relation inverse? more full pipes = more flow OR more full pipes = less flow

oblique hollow
#

More full = more flow

#

And dont worry, total flow wont drop below 600

#

Since 600 is going in

#

600 also has to leave again

dark star
#

ah, thats a good point

oblique hollow
#

Just that Buffers tend to suck up all the gas

#

Buffers only output 600 again if they are full

dark star
#

also, i will likely not be using anywhere close to that 600 anyways for just getting some buildy bits and bits for research

oblique hollow
#

So if you have an industrial buffer, you would have to fill it to 2400 to get 600 out

#

Which is terrible

empty glade
oblique hollow
#

Yep. Recently tested that

empty glade
dark star
#

Thanks, mr Pipe wizard!

oblique hollow
#

Fluid Freight Platforms always go 300 / 600

#

Depending on pipe mk

empty glade
#

Good, so the devs didn't curse us with that without being able to use pumps πŸ™‚

oblique hollow
#

Its really odd, it makes using buffers to keep max flow up useless for gas

empty glade
#

Sounds like it's just a noob trap?

oblique hollow
#

Sorta lol

muted crypt
#

Does the "reloading your save issue causing some fluid in the pipe to go away" issue happen to all fluids or just liquids

#

(half expecting someone to say "but aren't those the same?" without realizing a gas is a fluid)

faint ember
#

Aren't those the same?

deft lichen
faint ember
#

You anti'd my anti-joke

empty glade
twin anchor
#

The wiki suggests 5 power storages per GW of power produced. This is based off the fluctuation in power production by
geothermal generators and fluctuation in power consumption in particle accelerators. Is that rule of thumb correct?

If we had 1GW produced by geothermal generators and 1GW being consumed by particle accelerators, wouldn't the worst case
scenario be 500MW production and 1500MW consumption, requiring 10 power storages to make up the difference?

#

Also, doesn't it make more sense to recommend power storages be built with fluctuating producers/consumers? I mean for the purpose leveling out fluctuating consumption and production (for other purposes, you do you). Like 2 per pure geyser and 5 per nuclear pasta particle accelerator. I think you'd probably end up building a lot fewer power storages following that type of rule of thumb than "5 per GW of power produced".

empty glade
empty glade
versed violet
#

There are many ways of sizing you backup battery:

  • By time you want to have when something goes wrong. Need 10 minutes to reach your generators/turn off extra factories? You need roughly 1 storage for every 500MW. If you want a hourly backup, 1 storage per every 100MW produced.
  • By power currently 'wasted'. You make 2000 MW but only use 800W right now? Build 12 power storages. And when they're full, build another ones.
  • By space available. If you picked a fancy cave and have a set area/volume to utilizie, just fill it with power storages.
faint ember
#

Power Tower.

#

Those things are very small and wires are the simplest logistic element in the game. Just stack them all the way to the sky.

versed violet
#

Caves! Exploit them while theyre accessible.

wind spade
#

By the time you'll build large power storages, you'll probably have large power plants, so the need for storages is pretty much void

bleak coral
#

yeah that "rule of thumb" seems weird on the wiki

#

it does make more sense to plan storages around backup or fluctuating, cause most of your demand isn't fluctuating

wind spade
#

wiki has tons of weird things due to it being open and maintained by just a few people

frosty owl
#

Blame Ondar?

wind spade
#

I can see building power storage if you want to use more out of the geothermal energy, but then again - do you really want to get that close to your power production? Isn't it better to just add a few nuclear plants and not care about a few MW from geothermal?

bleak coral
#

kwjcool added it back when the patch first released, and it looks like was just ran with

twin anchor
#

The wiki does give advice about how much power storage you need. Specifically, how much power storage you need for the purpose of compensating for fluctuating production and consumption.

Given that the advice does exist on the wiki, we can ask:

  • Is the advice necessary?
  • Is the advice accurate?

To say that "you'll have lots of power generation anyway" or "just build tons of power storages" sounds to me like an argument for the advice not being necessary. Like "don't worry about it - in reality, you don't actually need to compensate for fluctuating power production and consumption". I get that argument. I agree that, in practice, most people will have more than enough power production. Some may have power storages and, if they do, they have probably built a tower of them providing more than enough storage to compensate for fluctuating production and consumption.

However, I also think that the wiki is the perfect place to provide this advice for those who actually want to calculate how much power storage they need to compensate for fluctuating production and consumption. So, while many people will not need to calculate how much power storage they need for this purpose, having the information about how to calculate it is valuable to those who do wish to calculate it.

My question I posted above is not if the advice is necessary, but is it is accurate?

If we had 1GW produced by geothermal generators and 1GW being consumed by particle accelerators, wouldn't the worst case scenario be 500MW production and 1500MW consumption, requiring 10 power storages to make up the difference? (ie. not 5 as the rule of thumb suggests)

My second question was if it would not make more sense (ie. if advice could be improved) to recommend building a number of power storages to make the amount fluctuating production and consumption.

I acknowledge that there are other uses for power storages, and each will have a different way of calculating how many power storages are needed.

#

Sorry Lund, I had already typed half that essay when you replied.

wind spade
#

also both geothermal and particle accelerators use just linear min->max change, so the average is always in the middle, meaning you just need to have enough MJ to cover the downtime (which is half of the cycle)

twin anchor
wind spade
#

I'm not sure how long is the cycle for geothermal gen though. Let's say it's 30 seconds and use normal purity (100-300 MW), that means we need to store 15 seconds worth of production between 100 and 200 MW, so 15s x 150 MW = 2250 MJ, which means 0.00625 power storages per normal geogen or 160 geogens per storage.

For particle accelerators, it differs from recipe to recipe. Let's use plutonium pellet recipe as an example, going from 250 to 750 MW in 60 seconds, meaning the energy required is 30s x 375 MW = 11250 MJ, so 0.03125 power storages per particle accelerator.

#

@twin anchor ^

twin anchor
#

We also have to consider the max charging rate of the power storage (100MW)

wind spade
#

oh right, I forgot that's a thing

#

I should really play the game finally

#

so for all the above calculations, use the average power (200 MW for geogen and 500 MW for particle accelerator) as a minimum amount of power storages

#

so 2 for geogen and 5 for PA

muted crypt
wind spade
#

will probably happen after U5 (most likely U5 hitting stable)

muted crypt
#

nice

wind spade
#

and I'm hoping I'll be able to do twitch streams for those interested

muted crypt
#

πŸ‘€

wind spade
#

though I'm not sure my gameplay will be any good lol πŸ˜„ I hardly remember how to control the game xD

muted crypt
#

it'll be fiiiine

twin anchor
#

If you get stuck planning your factory there's this cool website I can point you to which may help

wind spade
#

I've heard it's dev is pretty bad at updating it tho πŸ€”

muted crypt
#

mfw you're literally a case of "good in theory, bad in practice"

#

good at planning - i.e. your website tool - but (supposedly, but doubtfully) bad at the game

wind spade
#

well technically I'm not even good at planning πŸ˜„ since it's just putting stuff to a tool I made xD

muted crypt
#

smh

#

have some faith in yourself

#

you'll be fiiiiine

quiet sable
#

Yogurt is a fluid but not a liquid kek

muted crypt
#

that's such a cursed statement

#

I love it

neat crest
#

Here's something I'm working on

unknown.png
#

grouping every resource node within a reasonable distance and then putting the mk 2 miner 250% output totalled up

frosty pawn
#

i got confused by lithium but then i realised it's limestone lol

neat crest
#

Some of these are pretty long distances but since they're all contiguous, it would still be beneficial to do single-node initial processing and then ship the first-level products to a central location within the polygon

frosty pawn
#

also there are a LOT of nodes in the eastern swamp,. i'm curious why you don't want to use most of them?

neat crest
#

So far the only overlapping node groups are the Limestone/Iron in the east part of the northern forest and even then that's very slight

neat crest
frosty pawn
#

oh yeah thats my favourite starting spot. it's northern forest so lots of pure nodes, but also plenty of space for hub and elevator

#

and soooooo much biomass to cut down

neat crest
#

The only ones I'm leaving out will be nodes that are totally isolated which are a handful of iron, copper, limestone, caterium nodes

frosty pawn
#

even a decent size cave for shroomz

neat crest
#

I'm also gonna do a map highlighting the best groupings for coal+iron=steel and coal+sulfur

frosty pawn
#

i kinda wanna play now but i also dont wanna play until update 5 T_T

neat crest
#

I'm on a new rocky desert save based around that lake and I'm in a power squeeze. there's 96 potential coal generators up on crater lakes but it's just a pain to build out

frosty pawn
#

you should plan out the logistics. choose a start location so you would have trucks near there but more generally you want a train network across the map so you gotta figure out where the stations should go

#

ah rocky desert, ok

neat crest
#

I had an epiphany when I realized I don't have to use Iron for hardly anything besides iron-only concentrated modular frames OR separate steel factory

frosty pawn
#

yeah i try to get off iron in favor of steel alts asap

#

then use iron only to make steel or coppper alloy ingots

neat crest
#

because alt recipes eliminate regular rotors & screws from production, so without coal nearby, iron can just go to plates/ironwire/rods -> stitched iron plate -> modular frame

frosty pawn
#

i like to combine steel coated plate with bolted iron plate, but i'm weird like that and obvs cant do it until i got oil and a few hdds

neat crest
#

ofc steel is better but until you've train-networked, getting coal and iron together, especially when you're still on coal power...

#

I used the s-calc to just unlock all alt recipes. i fucking hate grinding hdds for them.

frosty pawn
#

yeah, solid ingots are great when youre at coal stage

#

the purple crater in the south is great once you have trains unlocked, you can power the production of oil, steel and oil products with coal generators and load it all onto a train

#

theres even some copper, limestone and caterium nearby

#

i said oil twice lol. i meant you can make oil products and still have leftover HOR/fuel

#

you can even start with coal gens to power stuff until theres enough production to provide the parts you need for a fuel power station. can do turbofuel if you want. there's a nice variety of resources there

#

last time i spent at least a couple weeks building there, never had to leave

#

by the time i left i had bins full of heavy modular frames, computers, motors etc. at my base

#

just wish i had supercomputers and turbomotors automated at my base xD

dim terrace
#

Which alt for turbo fuel would be the best? Thinking of making a turbofuel plant on the west coast with the 1800 oil I can get there. I have all the alts so I'm just trying to plan ahead πŸ€”

#

Probably not gonna utilize it at a 100% cause of the mk2 pipe bug though, but close

bleak coral
#

HOR -> diluted -> (either) normal or blended turbo are the most resource efficient recipes

#

blended saves on sulfur, but needs more oil, and the reverse for normal (plus needs coal)

#

1800 oil would create an obscene amount of turbo fuel though, you might stick with like 300 or 600

#

mostly cause setting up the fuel generators takes foreeeeever

dim terrace
#

S.M.A.R.T. πŸ‘Œ

#

Need over 500 fuel gens (100%), or less but shard them

#

Probbaly end up doing it in chunks, 1 per oil node

bleak coral
#

That's a lot of fuel gens, any reason to not just go nuclear?

oblique hollow
#

100 is already a reason to go nuclear

tulip sedge
#

Doing 25 was enough to talk me into it lol.

gloomy palm
lapis bronze
#

Come on, touch it >:)

dim terrace
subtle eagle
#

sf_mugshot show me your factory spreadsheets and flowcharts - I wanna see :3 sf_mugshot

thorn bane
subtle eagle
#

well - I couldnt follow that even if I wanted to O.o

faint ember
#

Heavy modular frame meta be like:

thorn bane
#

a setup like this doesnt have issues with 780 belt limits right? because the overflow line will just get more items
or is there an issue with that?

unknown.png
versed violet
#

That pic could really use direction arrows on all belts

wind spade
#

I never understood the need to max belts if you have 600 on them already

thorn bane
#

if its over a long distance its easier to have less belts

wind spade
#

well over long distance you want to go trains anyway

#

and maxing belts leads to throughput loss over distance

thorn bane
#

thats the point of that design
the overflow line would just have more items so you wont lose throughput

wind spade
#

and if you did 600 belts, you could easily just build buildings for each 600 belt to use

lament chasm
#

im making 1200 aluminum scrap per min how many fully overclocked smelters do i need (using the pure aluminum ALT)? im brain dead after setting up a computer factory and aluminum setup so i cant think straight

thorn bane
#

8

lament chasm
#

mk thank you

lament chasm
#

ok need mroe help

#

how do i split 1200 between 8 smelters with MK5 belts ?

thorn bane
#

600 manifold into 4 smelters
x2

#

or however you get your 1200

lament chasm
#

i have 3 refineries

#

each outputting 400

thorn bane
#

probably with an injected manifold then

lament chasm
#

how do i set that up

wind spade
#

(88.8889% each)

lament chasm
#

ok thank you

#

wait the refineries or the smelters

thorn bane
#

wait remove the one on the top i cant math xD
but the rest is fine

wind spade
lament chasm
#

i think i just figured it out

#

im splitting the 3 refineries 2 3 smelters each then clocking one of the overclocked gens at 166.6667% so it requires 100 aluminum scrap totaling up to 400 per 3

muted crypt
thorn bane
frosty owl
#

Which turbomotors recipe do you think has the least convenient ratios, thus is the hardest for which to make a production line running at 100% without overproducing? thinking_helmet

muted crypt
#

@frosty owl hey I wanna work on something with you in the future

#

you've heard of max aluminum, or max power, or max turbo motors

#

max portable miners

frosty owl
#

... I will block you

muted crypt
#

πŸ™‚

thorn bane
#

i love it

muted crypt
#

this is one of those things where you look at it and you're just like "why"

fierce ruin
#

and that should include how many storage to stock 1 hour of prod ?

frosty owl
#

Why would you? tired_jace
I hate the miners so much this conversation is triggering me evildoggo
#automate-inhalers-first

thorn bane
#

ye that probably is the fastest ISCs/min setup

muted crypt
#

(10156.3 * 60) / 48

thorn bane
#

ah yes 10/10

unknown.png
muted crypt
#

LOL

#

it does that just for the silica LOL

#

that's beautiful, I didn't even notice that

#

holy shit I don't even think you can power this

unknown.png
#

you'd need to turn off machines needing powered with SCIM

frosty owl
#

Yep, since it uses all quartz for Crystal oscillators for rigour motors but still wants HSCs tired_jace

thorn bane
#

isnt plut nuclear 1.6TW or something?

#

ofc you dont have any resources left over

muted crypt
#

wiki says 50.4 / 22.4

thorn bane
#

630gw urods 560gw 22.4 plut rods

#

so 1.2TW

muted crypt
#

yeesh

frosty owl
#

So turns out portable miners are one of the few productions that can actually use up all nuclear (or close to that)

thorn bane
#

i just love it when 2 alt recipes(rigour and electric motor) are used in a planner
just shows how incredible this games math is that theres no best option

frosty owl
thorn bane
#

wait its 559 GW just for the miner manufacturers

thorn bane
muted crypt
#

so I looked through this web more

#

it uses every resource.

#

well, everything but uranium

thorn bane
#

well most things do if you select maximize i think

muted crypt
#

right, but still

#

also am I stupid or am I not seeing limestone...?

#

huh. so it doesn't use any limestone or uranium, it seems.

thorn bane
#

ooh right because it doesnt use cheap silica it uses alumina solution xD

muted crypt
#

so much quartz has to go to making crystal oscillators that it can't make the silica alt

#

that's fucking hilarious

frosty owl
#

Why would you not expect it to use everything but limestone and uranium? thinking_helmet

thorn bane
frosty owl
#

Stuff like coal, oil and quartz can be used in almost any production chain

frosty owl
muted crypt
#

more like it runs out of quartz

thorn bane
#

i also like
what recipe should i use for steel ingots?
yes!

unknown.png
muted crypt
#

all the steel

quaint rampart
#

This is delightful thank you

muted crypt
#

so after finalizing plans for my t1/t2 factory in my U5 save, I've come up with these per-minute rates of material output:
60 cable
100 concrete
30 copper sheets
18 iron plates
15 iron rods
2 modular frames
8 reinforced iron plates
6 rotors
2 smart plating
120 wire

The goal was to use 100% of the materials available in the immediate area of where I plan to start.

I'm debating if I should make two more smart plating per minute, which would just be as simple as cutting off two rotors and two RIPs from the total output (I don't wanna go any lower than that). Think it's worth it to do that, or no?

#

for reference, these are the nodes I plan to use - this is on the western coastline of the rocky desert.

unknown.png
#

oh hey, wait, I'm a clownℒ️ I just noticed there's six iron nodes not five

#

back to the drawing board rq

thorn bane
#

ye 4 smart plating
also id suggest a screw production
early on alot of milestones cost screws epsecially the chainsaw one

muted crypt
#

It's just t1/t2 milestones and equipment workshop stuff like the object scanner and chainsaw

#

which is why I don't really think it's worth making permanent

#

however....

thorn bane
#

screws is the first thing i automate then rods then plates
and then i take the cainsaw node as the first milestone xD

muted crypt
#

Okay, updated list:
60 cable
100 concrete
30 copper sheets
18 iron plates
15 iron rods
4 modular frames
6 reinforced iron plates
4 rotors
48 screws
4 smart plating
120 wire

#

works up to 360 iron/min with base recipes

#

(adjustments from last list: +2 modular frames, -2 reinforced iron plates, -2 rotors, +2 smart plating, +48 screws)

thorn bane
#

i think id make less modular frames but more normal iron plates? not sure

#

18 seems really low

muted crypt
#

true, but I'd probably try to avoid using regular iron plates for belts where possible as soon as I get RIPs online

thorn bane
#

i think thats a bad idea
RIPs are so expensive its not really feasible to use them as default imo

muted crypt
#

hmm, fair

thorn bane
#

i only use them when i need >60 throughput and usually make 100 or something normal plates

wind spade
#

SIPs are pretty good though

muted crypt
#

yes, but this is assuming I don't go on any hard drive hunts until after I get coal power going

#

Updated list:
60 cable
100 concrete
30 copper sheets
50 iron plates
15 iron rods
2 modular frames
6 reinforced iron plates
4 rotors
48 screws
4 smart plating
120 wire

(-2 modular frames, +32 iron plates)

thorn bane
#

i personally wait until rifle and jetpack but thats up to you xD

wind spade
#

that seems weird though, SIPs save power as well πŸ€” but I get that not everybody wants to go HDD hunting so early (although I think it's super beneficial)

thorn bane
#

fighting this with a zapper is just
not fun

wind spade
#

not all HDDs need fighting

#

and a lot of those that need fighting can be done by just running to the objective

muted crypt
#

I agree it's beneficial, 100%, but I feel it's less efficient with my time if my factory shuts down while I'm gone

#

because then it isn't doing anything

thorn bane
#

ye add 120 solid biofuel to your list xD

muted crypt
#

but there's many wrecks in the rocky desert alone that I can get fairly early on (most complex part looks to be motors) so I'll hope for good recipes in those

muted crypt
wind spade
muted crypt
#

fair

thorn bane
#

actually i unlock solid biofuel before foundations or splitters/mergers xD

muted crypt
#

looking at the map, if I wanted to get a bunch of wrecks early on, I'd need:

  • 4x rotor
  • 30 MW
  • 4x motor
  • 9x modular frame
  • 10 MW, 1 rotor
  • 30 motor
  • 1x modular frame
  • 1x rotor
  • 2x quartz crystal
  • 4x encased industrial beam
  • 50 MW
  • 4x rotor
  • 30 MW
  • 21x rotor
  • 10x solid biofuel
  • [nothing]
  • [nothing]
  • 3x heat sink (if I can find them by another wreck)

lol

unknown.png
#

all of these are very basic and very close

thorn bane
#

if you load a save it shows what items are on the ground around them btw

muted crypt
#

even if I just booked it south to grab the two free drop pods and fished for iron wire + stitched plate, or cast screw and something else, before beginning any work

muted crypt
thorn bane
#

ah

wind spade
#

a lot of HDDs have resources scattered around anyway

#

so you can make use of them to unlock other HDDs

thorn bane
#

no rotors though interstingly

sacred epoch
muted crypt
sacred epoch
#

I just messin ❀️

muted crypt
#

I figured lmao

frosty owl
#

Imagine not being able to play on your work PC, such casual gamer why_so_snutt 🀣

muted crypt
#

it's a laptop with RAM issues

#

I don't trust this shit to run much of anything

#

I'm impressed it can run Slay the Spire tbh

keen wedge
#

Anyone know approximately how fast one drone can transport items that are stacked in 500? Like could one drone feed 2 belts without falling behind?

#

(Assuming a moderate to long distance flight)

quaint rampart
#

9 stacks times 500 items for a mark v belt is 5m 46s

#

that is, it'll keep the belt saturated for that long

#

two belts will be saturated for half that (2m 53s)

#

so that gives you your maximum round trip time before the belt will start to stutter

#

Having said that, drones are also rate limited by the connections - a drone port only has one output, so one belt is the maximum it can pass regardless

brittle terrace
#

dose anyone have a equation or caclulator i can use to find how much stuff/min i transport with a train

bleak coral
#

Yeah it's on the wiki, the electric locomotive page

#

!wikisearch electric locomotive

shadow prairieBOT
bleak coral
#

The train throughput section

lapis bronze
#

I have decided to faithfully follow what the satisfactory calculator site says. I knew it would be a pain in the ass but I severely underestimated how hard it would be with all of these completely arbitrary splits like 83%. I'm already half way done so I have to commit to it

unknown.png
#

I swear if when I finally power this thing on and it turns out I made mistakes in the splits I will commit game end

#

There's this lovely guy that makes 1:10 videos on youtube of random splits in satisfactory so bless his soul πŸ™

#

it's worked up to 16 so far

frosty owl
#

Else you could still have it mostly balanced and avoid most of the cumbersome splitting if you just manifold the ores and fiddle with clocks a lot.
Eg (assuming rotors and modular frames production): you manifold the iron rods for the rotors and frames on 2 separate belts (that you only need to split 2/3 ways to get the right ratio). The two groups of constructors get fed iron ingots 1:1 by smelters with the same clock. The smelters' ore gets manifolded

frosty owl
#

A tangent on HMF recipes
I find that this (in picture) set of recipes is the one with the best balance between resource efficiency and the number of machines needed for the production
These the numbers compared to the equivalent production with the most resource efficient recipes (https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=9CqLLmFaMud8nw6Y5G6c)
Left efficient, right fast
Refineries: 3.8 vs 3.6 (-5%)
Foundries: 2.85 vs 3.1 (+9%)
Constructors: 9.9 vs 7.3 (-26%)
Assemblers: 9.2 vs 8.2 (-10%)
Manifacturers: same
Iron ore: 100 vs 93 (-7%)
Coal: 114 vs 124 (+9%)
All in all, it seems that combining bolted plates with standard frames does increase the use of steel (thus coal) a bit but noticeably decreases the amount of machines needed.

Note: this was calculated disregarding plastic and rubber usage and the Heavy Flexible Frames recipe (which drastically increases the use of oil while saving a lot more coal and needing a few less machines)

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

#

@bleak coral might appreciate the numbers

bleak coral
#

First impression: using heavy encased huh? almost like heavy flexible don't got nothin' on it huh? πŸ˜› thinking_helmet

#

Pure iron ingot is an interesting choice, 3 refineries is about the same size as 5 smelters, and it's waaaaay less power

#

oh I guess this was just for machine count though

frosty owl
#

Machine count and efficiency both ahah

#

But no, heavy encased is just too good to make flexible interesting in this scenario unless you really don't care about burning rubber in this ^^

bleak coral
#

I mean that's kinda the key problem with heavy flexible in any scenario

#

it is actually better in a lot of ways to the default recipes, it's just encased is betterer

frosty owl
#

Yeah... Even with how I love to reduce the number of machines, it's just not worth it :/

lapis bronze
#

Well in comparison to what I have right now it's not so bad is it

#

And it would keep them in neat strips and make planning a lot easier πŸ€”

#

Think I should rebuild the whole thing?

wind spade
#

how is manifolding 13 machines harder than doing weird balancers?

#

(not to mention that the calculator doesn't give you perfect balancers either)

lapis bronze
#

@wind spade am i doing it right?

unknown.png
wind spade
#

what's that

lapis bronze
#

13/15 and 2/15 split

wind spade
#

no idea

#

I'd just do a single splitter and let it balance itself

lapis bronze
#

ok (β•―Β°β–‘Β°οΌ‰β•―οΈ΅ ┻━┻

dusky quail
#

scalable design i've been trying to pull off for some time - thoughts/opinions?

unknown.png
wind spade
#

I'm not a big fan of busses, I think Satisfactory works better without them

dusky quail
#

I tried having a main bus once, waaay more effort than it was worth

#

now i just pull what I need onto the next production bus, then dump the rest into storage

wind spade
#

I don't think any bus is worth, direct insertion works way better due to SF not having variable production

dusky quail
#

I mean I just use them as a way to organize conveyors

#

they are still basically going in direct to the next production manifolds

wind spade
#

if it's just connection between two points, I wouldn't call that a bus

dusky quail
#

sometimes I split belts into different manifolds

#

i just call the whole thing a conveyor bus, for lack of a better term

wind spade
#

stacked belts πŸ˜›

dusky quail
#

right

lapis bronze
#

ok i built it out a little more it's pretty neat

unknown.png
thorn bane
lime scarab
#

@wind spade Wouldn't a main bus design help prevent clutter?

thorn bane
#

also i tried the idea of a secondary bus but ended up with alot of spaghetti so i think i prefer 1 big bus
smaller busses also have the issue that its harder to use alt recipes since you dont have all resources on the small bus which is the biggest upside of a bus imo

wind spade
lime scarab
#

most likely that causes the spaghetti effect

#

I guess it is preference

thorn bane
#

it is
i think busses are the most efficent way to build

wind spade
#

why would one belt that goes a like one foundation far be spaghetti?

wind spade
lime scarab
#

greeny could you show me a pic of what your manufacturing process looks like?

thorn bane
#

if you have enough production buildings a bus is 100% material efficient
also yes i think it is the most time efficient for progressing through the game
the only downside i can see is bad fps

wind spade
dusky quail
thorn bane
dusky quail
#

so you mean quantity, I build my manifolds vertically

#

if you look at the diagram, the L arrows are lifts

#

so I can add more machines just by adding more floors

thorn bane
#

aaah sorry didnt catch that

dusky quail
#

all g, not many people build vertical manifolds

#

takes a lot more effort

lime scarab
#

I prefer horizontal as I find stacked to be annoying

#

Expandability of horizontal is easier imo

dusky quail
#

yea def a preference thing, I don't like having different length production manifolds so I just cube them up

wind spade
lime scarab
#

Yea that makes sense (I mean it)

#

I would do that for certain things

#

I mainly use buses for ores (specific materials) etc so I can put machines anywhere I prefer

wind spade
#

one factory can produce more than one product, e.g. like this

unknown.png
thorn bane
#

i think that is fine once you have mk 5 belts mk3 miners and all alt recipes
but before that its just way too hard to adjust

wind spade
#

apart from super early game

thorn bane
#

if you get a better miner you can make twice as much
if you get better belts oyu can make more
if you get an alt recipe thats better you basically have to rebuild your whole factory

#

with a bus you just add a machine in the manifold

wind spade
#

if you get better miner, you can split before your factory and either build the module again or use it for something else
better belts aren't really useful since the factory is built with certain throughput in mind, so doesn't need better belts
most of the recipes you get before building anything, for the remaining ones, you can rebuild if you really need to (but again, there's no need to rebuild, since the factory already produces the amount you wanted in first place)

wind spade
dusky quail
#

i presume all the boxes are manifolds so greeny can always just expand them

wind spade
#

yeah, although I'd usually rather build another module over expanding existing one

thorn bane
#

but adding a machine to a manifold is waaayy easier than building a whole module again
because you dont need to do the logistics again
and imo if you have a plan (or a calculator) you wont have to recalculate

#

this is the design i started using lately
vertical bus so its more compact
and machines on both sides to make it shorter

unknown.png
#

also if you build a new factory you have to make logisitics for the parts you already have again
where with a bus you can just add those machines to the manifold and split it of

lime scarab
#

this probably sucks but I do stuff like this

unknown.png
wind spade
# thorn bane but adding a machine to a manifold is waaayy easier than building a whole module...

you're comparing different things. Adding one machine doesn't happen in my build because that's never needed, all machines/modules work at 100%. If I'm adding something, I'm building from ore, which you would have to do in your bus system as well (build all smelters, constructors, assemblers, etc.). The amount of buildings built is the same, just the module is easier to copy, in main bus you have to take care to not have more than one belt can handle

median thunder
#

main bus in satisfactory sounds like such a pain

dusky quail
#

main bus = "I want everything all in one place"
on-demand = "I just gonna build what I need"

thorn bane
#

ok say for example your making heavy modular frames
youd have to make the whole modular frame production again
but with a bus you can just go those places (mod. frames rips. etc) and add machines to the manifold

median thunder
#

factorio is like, I can build literally square miles of belts with a couple clicks, in end-game

#

satsifactory buses are just too much work

#

actually that's just my opinion of satisfactory in general lol, on-demand building is also repetitive

wind spade
#

example: I want to double my RIP production.

my system: copy the RIP module next to itself

your system: figure out how many is produced at the moment (you don't know because other machines can eat some RIP, or you have to keep track how many is produced), add the same amount of buildings as in my case to the manifolds, check if all manifolds are under 780/whatever your belt is. Depending on your bus length, this may be more walking than building one compact module.

dusky quail
#

if you're fine with doing that, then main bus is good for you, some of us are not

thorn bane
#

i mean yes the math is harder
but imo once you get into it its very easy to keep track

wind spade
#

so to sum up:

  • harder math
  • same amount of building
  • more lag
  • a lot of useless belts

don't really see any advantage for main bus to me

thorn bane
#

way faster build time

wind spade
#

it's not

#

same amount of machines, same amount of splitters, maybe a bit less belts

thorn bane
#

it is because the logsitics are way easier

wind spade
#

but longer distances to walk

dusky quail
#

having done both too, main bus is a lot more tedious and more belt management

thorn bane
#

having done both i guess you just didnt do it right

dusky quail
#

but for sure it's the most flexible, just really takes more time and effort

dusky quail
thorn bane
#

i think around HMFs and Computers it really shines because you already have alot of the things needed on the bus so making those is alot easier than making a new factory

wind spade
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where do you have the easier?

  • you build same amount of buildings (obviously, need same amount of production)
  • you build roughly the same amount of splitters/mergers (since both systems use manifolds)
  • for manifolds you build the same amount of belts
  • for my system I need a few short extra belts to connect manifolds
  • for your system you may need to add new belt to the bus due to max belt limitation
  • for my system everything is in one place next to each other
  • for your system it may also be close, but in worse cases may be on the other end of the bus, meaning more walking time

from what I see, it's pretty much the same build complexity/time. Maybe I'm missing something tho

median thunder
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the benefit is that you don't need to do calculations

lapis bronze
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i finished my manifold paradise and it's taking forever to level out and actually produce anything

median thunder
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you just look at your bus

wind spade
median thunder
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wow, the belt with module frames is empty? add more assemblers in that section

wind spade
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I'm assuming you use some of the online tools to compute number of machines

wind spade
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so I'm assuming in both cases you're adding ALL the buildings you need

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(and you know how many of what type)

median thunder
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you just overbuild signifigantly

wind spade
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that's waste of items

median thunder
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I'd rather build a factory with 50 assemblers once then build a factory with 25 assemblers twice

wind spade
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well in my case you almost never increase existing production because you build what you need from start

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you figure out how much you need and build that much

median thunder
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yeah, so when you want to start constructing a new item