math-and-meta

[oblique hollow]

you forgot to mention if you overclocked the oil extractor

[frosty owl]

The answer to this is documented in the wiki, "Overflow valve" section of...

!wikisearch pipeline

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=pipeline

[oblique hollow]

just found out how exactly buffers output fluid

[bronze silo]

nope, no overclocking

[oblique hollow]

i assume you use the HOR alt?

[bronze silo]

no alt recipies either, lol

and

4 refs each

so far everything is still green

[oblique hollow]

flush the buffer

[bronze silo]

whole system?

[oblique hollow]

Buffer

[bronze silo]

k

[oblique hollow]

not system

[bronze silo]

I had 2 on each line to be safe ... all flushed now ... will keep my eye on it 🙂

thanks for the tip

[oblique hollow]

@frosty owl Industrial Buffer: output is proportional to: (Fill Level / 300) * Input
Normal Buffer: Output is propotional to (Fill Level / 75) * Input
So Big boi needs to be at 300 to output 1 to 1 and small one needs 75

if its above 300 or 75 it will try to output more, if it can

[frosty owl]

That's for MK1 right?

How did you even figure it out? 😂

[oblique hollow]

let it fill and monitor output rate

[oblique hollow]

also no, mk 1 or mk 2

its simply the fill level of the buffer that generates the required head lift of 1.5

1.5 is THE minimum for pipes

well.... 1.5 to 1.3

the exact formula for big buffer: Output = ((300/2400)*12/1.5)) * Input Flow = 1 * input Flow

and for small: Output = ((75/400)*8/1.5) * input Flow = 1 * input Flow

any fill level below 75 m³ for small and 300 m³ for big will result in a proportionally lesser output flow

[frosty owl]

Still not answering the real question though

[glacial hemlock]

@oblique hollow pog. Do you want to add them into the wiki page?

[oblique hollow]

ill do that later on

[oblique hollow]

i just told you. i just let 300 flow in and then i observed output rate compared to fill level and made a very accurate estimation: compare the proportional head lift of a buffer to the 1.5 m default head lift for pipes

[glacial hemlock]

not 1.3m?

hmm...

[oblique hollow]

it seems to do the math with 1.5

[glacial hemlock]

also, when fluid buffers are completely filled up, they can actually propagate head lifts higher then the buffer's rated head lift, which depends on the upstream pipeline

[oblique hollow]

funny enough with a valve on the pipe minimum head lift jumps to 1.8 m

[glacial hemlock]

at the end they are just fat pipes.

valve? wow i didn't measured that before

[oblique hollow]

so valve adds roughly 0.3 m minimum

.... lemme check this with a buffer

[glacial hemlock]

if a valve adds 0.3, will consecutive valves add more?

[oblique hollow]

dont think so

might also be a pump inaccuracy...

see? 300 in, fill level is 273, output is 273

perfectly proportional

and for 600 in: its still proportional: 150 fill level equals 300 output

guess this is the magic behind Equalizers and Interpolators

also, it seems valve minimum head lift is a hoax: its a mistake by the pump or something

[frosty owl]

I can't believe I never noticed that making quickwire with pure caterium, pure copper and fused quickwire makes calculating ore so simple
1 Caterium Ore + 1 Copper Ore = 6 quickwire

[oblique hollow]

fused are really nice recipes

[frosty owl]

It's the pure copper that makes the deal even though. Alloy or normal don't cut it (more copper than cat)

[wind spade]

isn't bolted like worst in terms of resource efficiency?

[frosty owl]

Yep, but unless you wanna MAXIMIZE HMF, you don't lack the iron (obviously) NOR the steel for it (enough oil for that)
You end up tapping out of bauxite and nitrogen first

Though, you MAY have to cut on coated plates for that, the biggest plan I made had that little leeway on oil using bolted recipes (though, if you just use steel screws and not bolted recipes, the thing changes a lot)

[wind spade]

I'd say it's always good to save some resources

even if you don't max map

[frosty owl]

I'd say at that scale you REALLY wanna save on machine count

[wind spade]

nah, machines can be built easily

[frosty owl]

No, I mean that when you build that big, you're probably already having issues with object count 😆

[wind spade]

that can be easily avoided by not paving the world with foundations

you're super far from object limit with such a build

[frosty owl]

Like: of you build so much that you risk ending up not having enough oil because you used too much to make coke steel, you'll have LONG passed the normal object count and have a lagfest due to the 10k+ constructors alone

Quick comparison using my plan (Max nuclear, 140 ADS, 60 MFG, 40Pasta,50 TPR):
STEEL SCREWS+BOLTED: 10'565 constructors, 5'477 asses, 6294 Refs, 1051 foundries, 1441 manifs, 454 Blenders, 105 PAs (444'554 MW)
No steel screws or bolted recipes: +453 const, +690 asses, -4 refineries, - 105 foundries, -12 manifs, +5 blenders, same PA (+10'056 MW)
@wind spade

[wind spade]

the exact numbers don't really tell the correct story. It's 4% more constructors, 12% assemblers, you save a bit on other buildings as well. 2% more MW isn't really big as well.

[cedar mica]

Probably hit the point, where there is not enough resources to make it without bolted stuff efficently

[wind spade]

that's a small price to pay for using like 60% of the original resources

doubt so, bolted stuff can be replaced with other that uses less iron

[frosty owl]

But why would you ever care about using too much iron?
We have literally more than we can use to make end-game stuff

[wind spade]

you never know when you'd need more iron

[cedar mica]

Less resources used, normally translate to less machines overall

[frosty owl]

You know if you make a detailed enough plan with your tool :P

[wind spade]

and then you want to max HMF and MF from the remaining resources 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Uhm, bolted is generally LESS efficient on resources 😅
It gains in speed and less machines needed

[cedar mica]

When you say max nuclear, what do you use for numbers? Cant match your numbers with 50.4 Uranium and 44.8 Plutonium

[frosty owl]

No thanks, I already maxed out FUSED frames and already have HMF and MF to spare too
Seriously, at that scale having less machines is more than a big enough appeal to me to go (if not just steel screws) for bolted recipes
Simpler Beltworks, easier HMF setups

[cedar mica]

In fact, not enough resources, with those numbers

[frosty owl]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=apIZJw4Y4zdB9sLzuQxA

Nah, I cut down a lot on plutonium to get more end-game items

[cedar mica]

Your biggest number of machines, is probably the 100 excess ADS...

6k less contructors, just by dropping it down to 60

[frosty owl]

It's a plan to convert as much stuff as possible into end-game ones for fast elevator delivery and fast statues acquisition

So, the ADS are close to the limit (leaves some wiggle room for any extra need)

Could even get more rockets by lowering the MFG, but 60/min seems slow enough to get the 5k needed

[cedar mica]

You need 4000 of ADS. 4000/140 per minute is 28.6 min...

[frosty owl]

Yep. Imagine unlocking the cup in less than an hour after booting up the factory 😆

[cedar mica]

10 a minute, is 6.67 hours for 4k. Its takes you longer then that, just setting up the rest of the factory...

Not saying its a waste, but it can be nice to leave some resources for next tier and other stuff you need

I mean, this is sending everything you have to space elevator/sink and power, leaving nothing to build with

[frosty owl]

That's quite exaggerated.
Bolted compared to (Coated+Adhered+ standards) [planner's choice] is
17.8% more iron
13.1% more coal
(I took out steel rods and steel coated plates)

[frosty owl]

Yes, pretty much 👍

[wind spade]

comparing two normal setups without oil:

stitched

bolted

33% saved resources

[frosty owl]

Imagine using bolted recipes without steel screws

That defeats the whole purpose (speed and nice ratios)

[wind spade]

imagine using coal and saying that you're not caring about resources

still way worse than stitched

uses more iron, uses coal when it doesn't have to

"nice ratios" can be achieved by pretty much any setup, we have overclocking 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

OFC it uses more iron, but why would I care, when

1. It saves on machine count (veeery important at that scale, as it means better playability)
2. I don't lack the resources to choose that route

[uncut pine]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/501894064283713556/840634781398073426/canvas.png?width=1920&height=559
whats the best way to deal with the 210 water from the alu production? ;/

[wind spade]

loop it back to the alu production or use it anywhere else where you use water (e.g. pure recipes)

[uncut pine]

good idea 🙂

[frosty owl]

Btw, I made this comparison with HMF (There's bolted frames in the mix too!)

[wind spade]

"better playability" is questionable, for me better playability would be having enough resources to do other projects
also, you don't lack the resources yet

[cedar mica]

Its like Copper before U4, something you had plenty of, then Copper Powder happened

[frosty owl]

I don't plan to make a save that is "future proof" :P
Neither do I plan to play it total slideshow mode. If I can get even 10% more frames, that's a big deal
You know how better frames make even just building stuff MUCH faster?

I mean, I WILL restart at SF 1.0, so why bother make a save future proof?

[wind spade]

get a better pc

[frosty owl]

.... I'm cursing at you so hard rn

[cedar mica]

I'm not sure any PC, can handle all the resources on the map, being used

[frosty owl]

If I could get a GPU... rants and mumbles away

[frosty owl]

I'm inclined to think that way too, thus I say: do inefficient, if it doesn't hurt with your final plan and saves on PC performance 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

gets impersonal computer instead

[normal sluice]

I'm sure this has been asked already, but there's no point in all at clocking miners past 720 right?

Sorry I mean 780

[loud heron]

More or less

[sand garnet]

Yup 163% hype

[normal sluice]

Figured, just wondering if there was any unmodded reasons to clock it past that, but makes sense.

[frosty owl]

162.5, you inefficient pioneer! >.<

[sand garnet]

Time to write decimals is time spent not building

[fierce ruin]

Writes sentence about one character

[dusty crow]

Choose, please

[frosty owl]

Context? ^^

[dusty crow]

whats the better pne

I mean looking at it, stators seem better (I have a nice steady supply of sheets and rotors)

[frosty owl]

...depends on the "context" (your tier, what you produce most and what you lack most...)

[dusty crow]

so i'll go for stators

[frosty owl]

Seems like a sound choice ^^

No "bad" one to pick in there, either

[fierce ruin]

quick wire for stators tho...

[frosty owl]

8/min tho...

[cedar mica]

Choice matters very little, as there is more crash sites then recipes. So pick one and move on to the next crash site

[fierce ruin]

ratios tho...

[sand garnet]

Steel rotor if lazy

[fierce ruin]

steamed sheets for circuit boards if you're there

[dusty crow]

im gonna have to make a big factory for tier 5/6 soon

[frosty owl]

Yeah, the 16/min for pipes is a bit annoying xD
Though the 60/min on the other hand...

[fierce ruin]

If you use the greeny doctrine you'd just build more

[solemn breach]

Coated cable, plastic smart plating, or turbofuel?????

Sorry I was in wrong channel.. looking for opinions

[worthy copper]

re: needing more iron
iron is one of the resources that gets capped when going for max awesome points/uranium power with sinking plutonium

admittedly there's only a few resources that dont get capped but some recipes are in there to save iron notably
such as steel coated plates

[wild coyote]

!wikisearch fuel

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=fuel

[wild coyote]

!wikisearch fuel power plant

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=fuel power plant

[glacial hemlock]

@solemn breach turbo fuel ftw. And later you might get turbo blend fuel which is a further upgrade

[solemn breach]

@glacial hemlock nice thanks for the info!

I did get the turbo fuel! Can I use it to power the explorer?

[glacial hemlock]

Can, just package it

[pine rapids]

Did they ever fix the thing where jetpack can’t use turbo fuel? Although I just use hover pack for literally everything now...

[wind spade]

not sure it needs a "fix", it's intended

[frigid wave]

Stupid question since its so obvious, but, this set up is the exact same as the 300 crude oil to 900 plastic/rubber (in this case plastic) that Kibitz has done a video on, right ? Except this one has been simplified using Diluted Fuel alt for the Blenders.

Asking incase I am missing something.

Reference picture https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaeedxJUwAIZVHb?format=png&name=large

[fierce ruin]

i don't know if Kibitz did a video on it; but as far as i know it's the most efficient oil->plastic setup

[glacial hemlock]

The pipe with 1 fuel is simply the rounding error and it is lame

[versed violet]

Organizational question:
Does it make sense to fill my storage containers with portable miners, leaving single slot empty, because 100 turbomotors/other expensive stuff is plenty and I'd rather sink rest?
Is there anything else that doesn't stack and is quick to produce en mass?

[wind spade]

can be also anything that stacks

just put one of it in each slot

[versed violet]

Not using stackable stuff, so it doesn't get messed up If I sort or pull wrong item.

[shy mason]

it makes sense to use that as an end storage unit, just don't use the output side of it.

will do that myself as it applies to my super computer usage.

[oblique hollow]

odd..... im producing 780 ingots per min, but my belt is not having any issues

[loud heron]

Wha

[oblique hollow]

usually mk 5 belt has issues

and doesnt run at 780 / min

[sacred pilot]

bahahaha ok wow this is JUST to make a system that'll create 4k assembly director systems in over 4 hours of in-game time

that's freakin' wild

if anyone here got employee of the planet and found reasonable ways to go about it I'm all ears. I'm guessing it just legit takes this kind of effort though, the requirements are insane

[oblique hollow]

i wouldnt use iron wire for cables tbh

buuut the alternatives for that are more complex sooooo

[loud heron]

Might be a symptom of your CPU not keeping up, but your save is just fine in size atm?

[oblique hollow]

yep

smol

though this issue supposedly gets worse on larger saves

since belts are non-deterministic

[loud heron]

Yeah thats just the game probably not interpolating correctly cause its missing update ticks

Ah well, optimizations in the future

[sacred pilot]

I just had it pick all alternates and optimize, I'm sure I could tweak it a little, but it'll still be crazy complicated and suck more power than i've ever generated

I always wondered why people tried to get a ton of nuclear plants running for power generation, it seemed overkill. Now I know

[oblique hollow]

tier 9 and 10 are gonna be much worse i imagine

[sacred pilot]

I could always take the most complex 2 (nuclear pasta and assembly directors) and cut them in half and do them first, assuming the extra hours i'll spend working on the other facilities

and mostly only worry about the last one being optimized to take only 4 hours to complete all the parts

the amount of copper you need for nuclear pasta is just unreasonable otherwise

[oblique hollow]

its really a copper beast

buuut i can definitely imagine that we will get alts for more elevator parts later on

[sacred pilot]

well that and OBVIOUSLY these requirements are just time killers for the people who want to go crazy

every other tier I made just one fully optimized machine for each space elevator part and had it done in a reasonable few hours

I'm sure tier 9 will unlock after just a few hundred of each when it's implemented

I don't even hardly know where to start with this. The hyper-end-game is nuts

[sand garnet]

we dont evn know if there will be tier 9

[loud heron]

Tier 9-10 machines be like "I need a county's worth of power to make this superposition oscillator"

[hard rune]

need help getting 100 items per minute using only splitters and conveyors

have up to mk5

[loud heron]

What do you mean you need help getting 100 items per minute

[hard rune]

i have a chest full of stuff, splitting it into various resources but one belt has a lot going through a programmable splitter

[signal nimbus]

Mk2, Split twice to 60 and 60. Split the second line to 20, 20, and 20, send one of the 20s away, merge the other two back into the first.

[loud heron]

There ya go

[hard rune]

aight thanks

[versed violet]

For last elevator shipment I personally went with 1 acc for pasta, 0.5 man for rocket, 2.67 ass director and 2 mag field generator (basically, all parts scaled to output of slowest machine). Should take 16h 40m to build all parts, and frankly, I'd spent another 4-6h building double the factory, so may as well go with minimal set and sit on a beach.

[sacred pilot]

Isn’t 0.5 rocket per min 33 hours?

[versed violet]

Oops, guess I'll wait a bit longer
Not that it actualy matters, as I haven't finished building my turbomotor and radio unit lines yet.

[sacred pilot]

I guess it’s just about figuring out how much you’re willing to wait vs how long it’ll take to build factories

Might start with nuclear pasta since it’s sooo much harder to scale up, then assembly directors since that’s also crazy resource intensive. The others are a lot easier. Then it’s just droning them in somehow (battery source TBD)

[dusty crow]

i have fuel going. you can see that I currently have 240m^3 since I set up over here. what do I do with it?

plastic and rubber is obvious, but

[glacial hemlock]

For his mentioned splitting method, if you merge back the 20 into the main belt, which is 120/min, you will get 100/min output, since the 20/min get circled around and takes up part of the throughput.

[hard rune]

yes i did just that

[smoky frigate]

what is the absolute max power you can get from a map? some one mentioned it once

[bleak coral]

Going from just memory without checking, I'd say around 1.7TW, mostly from nuclear.

[smoky frigate]

that sounds about right but i though it was a lower number around 1.2 tw

[bleak coral]

No that's just nuclear

1.12TW iirc

[smoky frigate]

this is coal only so far

[bleak coral]

Oil is like 500 - 600GW

[smoky frigate]

MK3 mines are awsome

[bleak coral]

Oh wait you can't do max nuclear and max oil

Max nuke needs half the sulfur and max oil needs all of it

[smoky frigate]

ill be ok if i can just hit 1tw

[bleak coral]

You haven't already used sulfur have you?

[smoky frigate]

only once

only one sulfur node with a MK3 miner

[bleak coral]

If you want 1TW you have to do nuclear. And I wouldn't bother with anything else.

[smoky frigate]

i want max coal and 1tw

[bleak coral]

You need an absolute truckload of fuel generators just to get half that

[glacial hemlock]

It is difficult to consume 1TW even if spelevator parts are maxed out

[smoky frigate]

i want 1TW just for clout

using as little nuclear as possable

[glacial hemlock]

Impossible to reach 1TW without nuclear

[smoky frigate]

how close can i get with out nuclear?

[bleak coral]

Maybe 3/4, but probably closer to 2/3

And then you don't leave any sulfur to get the rest of the way there

[glacial hemlock]

Can try max the turbofuel, then fuel, then coal. Use the calculator

[smoky frigate]

im not familiar with the calculator for power calculations

[bleak coral]

You just calculate for the resources, there's no power solver (yet)

[smoky frigate]

i broke the calculator whe i entered 400.000 coal

[glacial hemlock]

I broke my phone when i try to maximize the calculator on phone

[smoky frigate]

im trying 240,000

i need 5348 coal gens at 250 clock speed to make 1tw

OMG O.o

ive only placed 250

[wind spade]

Which one are you using?

[smoky frigate]

i think its time fore bed for me ill do this math later

[bleak coral]

There's not enough coal or oil to reach 1TW with either or both.

[jaunty vale]

Do you guys know the current Ticket point generation limit we have using resources in the map with best recipes possible?

[bleak coral]

no, I think that's still being problem solved in a vague sense, not even accounting for accuracy down to the point

[jaunty vale]

The whole 150 something turbo motors per minute can't be done anymore, right? since last update

[bleak coral]

you can make more, but they're not the main point generators anymore

their points got nerfed, and the new elevator parts are better anyway

[jaunty vale]

yes, I was doing some calc on the new elevator parts

I can max two parts

But one share limited resources and it get me into a critical path

[oblique hollow]

which limited resource? caterium?

[bleak coral]

yeah that's the issue, I think it's at least narrowed down to rockets and assembly directors, and no pasta

[jaunty vale]

Bauxite and Raw Quarts are the critical path here

[bleak coral]

pasta takes too much copper to make decent points

[jaunty vale]

This is for 81 Thermal Propulsion Rocket

to go with this I need to give up on my drones since I wont have a good way to provide batteries

I have a normal node focused on batteries right now

produce 342 batteries for 600 bauxite

[bleak coral]

crocketeer is working on this, and this is his latest plan: #satisfactory message

looks like assembly directors are the more important one, cause you can make a lot more of them than rockets

[jaunty vale]

yep, that's indeed true

He is probably maxing Assembly Directors

and then he can share the Bauxite with Nuclear

I can see he is maxing Nuclear 50.4

[bleak coral]

is maxing nuclear needed?

[jaunty vale]

if he is sinking the rods

[bleak coral]

sinking plut rods isn't a good points source though

[jaunty vale]

maybe this is maximum with maximum energy?

[bleak coral]

I think that may just be another personal goal he has

[bleak coral]

yeah I think that's what it is

so can probably get some more points by minimizing power

[jaunty vale]

a lot actually

The amount of Bauxite it goes into Nuclear is enourmous

[bleak coral]

I'd look in to using fertile too, it's uranium ore inefficient but saves on other stuff

although it's worse on bauxite so.....

wonder what all alts with fertile minus plut fuel unit would look like, so you're not making pressure cubes

[jaunty vale]

is this sinking the Plutonium rods?

[bleak coral]

no

[jaunty vale]

you should get voer 1TW with max Nuclear

[bleak coral]

that's only 1100 ore, cause it was a nice number for comparison

[jaunty vale]

oh ok

[bleak coral]

the percentages are the important part

[oblique hollow]

huh. its uranium inefficient? oh because you lose power...

[jaunty vale]

I think it may be needed to go nuclear for this project anyway

[bleak coral]

yeah, for a given amount of uranium using fertile results in less power

[jaunty vale]

521GW for the factory is no joke

[oblique hollow]

honestly the save on everything else seems nice tho

[bleak coral]

max points is definitely a nuclear project, no getting around it

[oblique hollow]

especially bauxite

no wait..... that uses more

xd

[bleak coral]

yeah I even made it red XD

[jaunty vale]

Bauxite is what matters here

And Quartz I would say

[bleak coral]

but that's using fuel unit for both, so I wonder what it looks like without plut fuel unit

[oblique hollow]

wellll........ less sulfur used

[bleak coral]

cause it does cut the quartz in more than half

[oblique hollow]

soooo you can easily go for some instant scrap there

[oblique hollow]

that also nicely falls in line with instant

...... could you..... possibly..... run this with instant scrap?

[bleak coral]

oh that's true, could it be a net gain for aluminum cause you could put more quartz to making ingots

[jaunty vale]

but u get the same amount per bauxite using Electrode, no?

[bleak coral]

yeah instant just has a nice setup, it's not more efficient

[oblique hollow]

electro + sloppy + normal ingots

it already requires 2 alts and a much larger setup

and sulfur isnt THAT limited

[jaunty vale]

I find the setup for Aluminum one of the simplests so far

getting the alt recipes is not a problem as well

[bleak coral]

hmm looking at it some more, maybe just skipping both fertile and plutonium fuel unit might be the way:
fertile: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=q5zhP65eanC3sp5GdRM4
non-fertile: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=AxJr7lKOw4Ptu04fk0pe

fuel unit is the big culprit for bauxite usage in making plut rods

[ocean bobcat]

In terms of streamlining a factory what items would you center production around? I'm at tier 6 where I can build Modular Engines and Adaptive Control Units and since they don't share materials other than contructor-items and maybe stators, my intuition is to make two seperate factories or groups (I will make separate scalable factories for all low tier items like screws, plates, wires etc.).
When I have access to Supercomputers I can make a factory for that and combine it with Adaptive Control Unit to make Assembly Director System. The thing is both factories share items in their production lines so I would have to make things like computers in both factories. Is it better to have separate factories for those items instead, like a factory for computers only? If the question is in the wrong channel I can move it to another.

[oblique hollow]

its hard to say since that answer depends on what you are willing to put up with. its mainly preference.

If you locally produce all your stuff for the MF,ACU and ADS, then you have to divert the raw resources to all facilities.
If you produce computers seperately, you only have to ship computers around, but you may or may not need to move more resources for that

[ocean bobcat]

@oblique hollowYeah, that's what I'm thinking too. Either way resources have to be moved around one way or the other. I decided to make separate factories for for all ingot based materials because they are used in so many ways further up the chain, but it's hard to say if more complex items benefit from separate productions. You could go on and on and build separate productions but in the end it's more a design choice.

[glacial hemlock]

Generally plan for the highest item such as rocket, then work down. Lets say you need some turbo motor as well, then just overbuild the turbomotor a bit for storage, as turbo motor is a component of rocket

Build centralized for easier setup, build far apart for fps friendly

[oblique hollow]

im more of a fan of separate, enclosed facilities that produce only a small number of other needed components inside, but they have one main component being produced

[glacial hemlock]

Wall doesn't help fps, sad news for you. It only contributes to uobject limit

[oblique hollow]

"enclosed" doesnt neccessarily mean walls. i meant more like "isolated"

[ocean bobcat]

@glacial hemlock I'be been doing that too but then there's ADS, MFG, Nuclear paste besides rockets and there's overlap between them. So for now I'm leaning towards build things like ACUs separate even though other facilities need computers too. I'm a fan of grouping things in terms of what is needed to open up higher tiers. I make everything in one facility but with separate buildings.

[glacial hemlock]

Good practice. Lags add up quickly if buildings are clustered

[oblique hollow]

could never be me. i dont like the organizational and logistical mess of giant facilities ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ocean bobcat]

Maybe i will change once I've build further, but for now I keep it in one area and try to keep it neat.

[jaunty vale]

I gotta say it is nice to see all the materials moving around in a big factory

But it's also nice to have a very organizational resource manager

My 20gw power tower, would be nice if I could build some more of those and that would be enough to power my Sink project :/

[hard rune]

place a radar scanner on top 🧠

[glacial hemlock]

Given the hitbox of fuel generators you can get away with slightly shorter floor heights

[frosty owl]

First time I see the tool do smth like this

"Non Fissile Uranium, 0.00x Blender"

[oblique hollow]

#blamegreeny

0 uranium waste input

it really is being useless right now xd

[jaunty vale]

that's the idea, the glass tower in the middle will be filled with batteries.

[jaunty vale]

yes, but I did not wanted clip or smoke going into next floor

[frosty owl]

Wanna guess the output?

[frosty owl]

Known bug, @wind spade ?

[wind spade]

I assume it's 0.00001 or smth like that

[frosty owl]

I'm pretty sure it's not... But the factory plan is linked above just in case (follow answers up to Lund's message)

I mean, don't 24 fertile uranium blenders take up the ENTIRETY of 600 waste?

(Math says they do)

[wind spade]

adding a few 6 to the 10.6666 request for plutonium fuel rod removes the node

so it was indeed 0.00001 or smth like that

rounded to 0.00

[frosty owl]

But there should be literally NO waste left for the node to use (24 machines each at 25/min)

[wind spade]

may be 23.9999995 or something similar

or 24.000004

the numbers are rounded, not just trimmed 😉

[frosty owl]

24x25 is 600.00000...
I'm doubting math and life as a whole now :tired_jace:

[wind spade]

where are you getting the 24 tho?

[frosty owl]

That's the numbers of blenders consuming waste
Fertile uranium: 24x blenders (each at 25/min)

[wind spade]

yeah, but the 24 blenders can be something like 23.999995

and the tool shows 24.00 because it rounds to 2 decimal places

[frosty owl]

So... #BlameGreeny?

[wind spade]

no

it was technically correct

[frosty owl]

Semantics

[wicked tinsel]

you can see that some rounding occurred on the output lane

[wind spade]

yeah, it's all rounded 🙂

as I said, add a few 6s to the request for plutonium fuel rods and that fixes it

[dull bolt]

rounding errors (:

[wind spade]

it's technically not even rounding error

the non-rounded numbers are correct, just the displayed numbers are rounded

[frosty owl]

<@&387163995947270144> Petition to update the pinned link to greeny's site to the U4 version
https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/

[nimble ore]

I mean you could've just pinged Frontier

[wind spade]

also, don't update it since it'll be changed back

to www. url

[frosty owl]

That's 10 IQ points out of my reach 😅 (will keep it in mind 🙏)

[frosty owl]

You may wanna say that to Joshie too (pinged CM in #satisfactory about #welcome)

[warm lagoon]

I have a plan of using 1200 crude oil to make fuel and plastic and rubber, now i was thinking that when you use the main fuel recipe you get polymer resin which can be used to create either rubber or plastic, should i just make max fuel and use the resin with water for the other two? if so how much of any would i get

i tried to put this into the calculator but its just... not workin the way i want

[royal eagle]

Or you could do the other way around: Making plastic and rubber with the crude oil and then using the heavy oil residue to make fuel without needing any water

[warm lagoon]

How much fuel would that net me?

ive calculated that the way i do it i get 120 rubber a minute and 120 plastc and 800 fuel a minute

idk what the other way round gets me

[royal eagle]

in my basic oil factory, i am using 300 oil to make 100 of each oil product

[warm lagoon]

i want power tho

power nice

[royal eagle]

oh, then you could use satisfactory tools to exact how much you want to produce

and it gives you the most efficient way

[warm lagoon]

this is the route i think ill go

looks like the most effiecient to me

[sand garnet]

depends on what you consider 'efficient'

[tardy moth]

You can make much more of all of these with diluted fuel

[warm lagoon]

how do i make diluted fuel

[tardy moth]

its an alternative recipe

you get those through hard drives

[warm lagoon]

i know how to get alternative recipes

[tardy moth]

sorry

[warm lagoon]

that does require a blender

im currently in tier 5

[tardy moth]

there is a packaged one

that only needs the packager

[warm lagoon]

oooo

[tardy moth]

MUCH more efficient

[warm lagoon]

can you link me the wiki article of the recipe youre talking about

[tardy moth]

ye, wait just a minute

[warm lagoon]

this one?

[tardy moth]

ye

thats the one

I almost always turn my heavy oil residue into fuel

[warm lagoon]

you can have a closed loop of the packaging right?

[tardy moth]

ye

[fierce ruin]

and crude oil -> heavy oil residue instead of producing plastic and rubber would also be more efficient (produce more fuel, that can be use to produce more plastic/rubber with the "recycled" recipies)

[tardy moth]

OH YEAH, I haven't thought of that

[warm lagoon]

so the most effiecnt tier 5 way of using my crude oil issss?

[tardy moth]

imma calculate a bit, be right back

[warm lagoon]

i have 4x300 crude oil btw

[fierce ruin]

it would be something like that. And use polymer resin to produce rubber (residual recipy) and then use you fuel to produce more plastic/rubber according to your needs with recycled recipies (it's 1 fuel for 1 plastic or 1 rubber in average)

[tardy moth]

boom

for those without blender

[warm lagoon]

those are a lot of packagers

but also a lot of fuel

[fierce ruin]

i'm pretty sure that's not optimal if you use residual plastic

[tardy moth]

just something quick I did

this is most optimal for fuel

[tardy moth]

With the packagers it's 4380 MW for a theoretical 40000 MW of power

With the blenders it's 4080 MW

[warm lagoon]

oof

my power grid cant start that then...

[tardy moth]

whats your current one?

[warm lagoon]

1800 lol but my max usage is 2100 so if it dies im fricked

[fierce ruin]

You don't have to start everything at once. As it's an easy 1:1:1 loop for the diluted fuel thing it's easy to build small and expend as you get more power

[tardy moth]

you could start with a quarter and get the fuel generators going so you can get the extra power

unplug everything in the meantime

[warm lagoon]

Im on my first playthrough but i was smart enough to make a main breaker :)

[tardy moth]

I wasn't

With only 25% of this fuel factory, you've got more than 5 times your current power

[warm lagoon]

yeah

Ill just mine more coal and big brain it

how long should 40k w last me

[tardy moth]

youll have to double it jsut to start with nuclear

maybe not double but you'll need like 60

60 to 70

might I suggest this place for future development?

[frosty owl]

Not really...
Power storages, remember? ;)

[tardy moth]

you are correct

If you've got enough backup power to power the whole nuclear factory you'd get away with 40k

[mortal timber]

Yes, lots of oil, great for a fuel plant, and there are lots of pure nodes of resources in the Northern Forest, which is close too.

[ornate stream]

Sorry for the ping, but what is this program? Looks like a satisfactory calculator I've worked with in the past.

[tardy moth]

It's SCIM

[ornate stream]

Ah thank you

[fierce ruin]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

[tardy moth]

yeah

[ornate stream]

Thanks

[wild coyote]

what would the foundation dimensions to fit around 30 fuel generators?

if anyone knows

[queen rivet]

I think mine for 25 is 20x20 ish

[frosty owl]

You can check out the fuel gens' sizes in the wiki ^^

[queen rivet]

But I build pretty loosely

[wild coyote]

alright

[normal osprey]

Hi everyone, a place where we can discuss about mod ?

[shadow prairie]

Ask for mods over at the official modding discord. It is linked in #welcome

<3 @frosty owl

[burnt goblet]

what do you use to get the web layouts like that?

[wind spade]

see pinned tools

[topaz hedge]

Or.. this way

which looks something like this when laid out.

As far as fuel making goes... I'd rather leave that out as it's pretty much up to you as to how you want to do that. packagers can be packed into a fairly compact setup. They're not really the most ideal way anymore, but done right, they're still pretty compact and don't give any issues. besides increased power usage. recycled loops in general are going to cost more power anyway.

[rocky cypress]

I have a Turbo Fuel refinery setup that uses a lot of packagers and refineries. My question is, if I switch to the blender to remove all those sidesteps, will that be more efficient? Both production and power wise?

[oblique hollow]

blender itself uses more power than refinery, but it simplifies the process

also, if you use 2 blenders at 50% instead of one at 100%, you already save more power than refineries

buuut its not that bad of a loss if you leave it at 100%

[rocky cypress]

Well, power is not an issue at this time. I have 300 turbo fuel generators at this moment

Was just wondering if I should bother switching to blenders or leave it as is

[oblique hollow]

the Turbo Blend Fuel uses more Oil but less Sulfur

[rocky cypress]

Sulfur is a very important resource when going nuclear if I remember correctly?

[oblique hollow]

yea, but unless you try to maximize evrything, you wont run into a sulfur bottleneck

heres the comparison between a lot of turbo setups. columns are resource efficiency between each recipe combination

[rocky cypress]

So what would you recommend, leave my setup as it is, with all the packagers and refineries or switch to blender?

[oblique hollow]

i guess you have diluted packaged fuel?

[rocky cypress]

Yea

[oblique hollow]

and you think about using diluted fuel (blender) and turbo blend fuel

[rocky cypress]

Well, what I wanna know is what's best in general. Stick to what I have and start working on nuclear, or change the setup to include blenders

Efficiency, power usage, room usage..

[oblique hollow]

well. i used the two blender recipes, and they really reduced my build size.
if i remember right..... 6 Blenders for 270 Turbofuel, with like 1 diluted fuel blender needed for those

its a very small setup

a single turbofuel blender replaces 2,4 normal turbofuel refineries

[rocky cypress]

Setup is like this now, this is one floor. I have a second floor below it

[bleak coral]

diluted fuel in the blender is actually fast enough it's also a power savings compared to the equivalent machines needed for packaged diluted fuel

it's just a small power savings though

[rocky cypress]

So, since I already have this setup there's really no use in converting it to use blenders?

[oblique hollow]

not really

unless you desperately need that sulfur

[rocky cypress]

I don't need sulfur at the moment

[oblique hollow]

then leave the setup as is

[rocky cypress]

But I'm not at nuclear yet, and I know nuclear uses sulfur.

[oblique hollow]

yeah but not terribly much

[bleak coral]

max nuclear only uses half the sulfur on the map, just for perspective

[rocky cypress]

Hmmm, that's good to know

[bleak coral]

so, yeah, as long as you leave some sulfur you should be fine, only really need to check if you're doing some extreme project with sulfur

[rocky cypress]

I don't think I have any extreme plans that involve using sulfur

[rocky cypress]

When you talk about max nuclear, how much are we talking about?

[bleak coral]

iirc it's 50.4 uranium fuel rods and 22.4 plutonium fuel rods, might not have those exactly right off the top of my head

it's more than 1TW of power though

it'd be hard to use all that power though

[rocky cypress]

Yeah, but one satisfies oneself in the challenge in being able to succesfully build it and have it running as efficient and well as possible 🙂

[proven prawn]

that pretty spot on unless nuclear is rebalanced in the future, but as of this moment that is the max of each rod you can make.

[livid meteor]

Damn, this looks nice. Never thought about doing it this way. Btw. what's the recommended ratio of rubber/plastic you want? I'm not sure which is more valuable

[frosty owl]

Depends on the recipes and alt recipes you like to use
If you're uncertain, just do 50/50

[livid meteor]

okay, thanks

[frosty owl]

The biggest plan I saw used around 500 GW

[livid meteor]

Mayb it's the wrong channel to ask but is Nuclear power even worth it? I mean it produces waste you can't get rid of

[frosty owl]

So what? ^^

All kinds of waste stack in 500s btw

[granite jasper]

One normal Uranium Node can produce 180 GW with no waste produced. The Uranium Waste can be turned into Plutonium Fuel Rods which can be sunk

[livid meteor]

Ah okay. So you can even get rid of the nasty stuff somehow now 😄

[granite jasper]

Plutonium Fuel Rods can either be sunk or used as even more power, but will produce a small amount of waste. Your choice whether you want more power or a relatively small amount of waste.

[frosty owl]

@livid meteor Don't be scared by waste :P
Even uranium waste (the one produced the fastest) fills up 1 ISC every 10h for every 10 GW of power (4 reactors)

[livid meteor]

Hmmm

I mean I already got waste in my world... damn lizzard doggos

[frosty owl]

Pffft, that amount of waste you can handle by eating stuff :P
Took me 200h before the storage I put it in started giving off enough radiation for me to get damage when close to it (before I had to practically hug it to even get a smidge of damage)

[livid meteor]

Hmmm, maybe I will do nuclear power tho. Still at tier 7. Just freshly entered it

[stray moon]

how many gens can i fuel with 3560 fuel and 750 turbo?

[regal kayak]

3560/12 + 750/4.5 ~ 463.33

[stray moon]

thanks :3

so close to being a good number XD

[fierce ruin]

2+2

[sand garnet]

comedy gold

man, you got me in actual stitches, you should star in comedy movies with that sense of humor

[unkempt acorn]

Is this right? or is the website a bit broken? im producing more water than im inputting?

[tardy moth]

Sloppy alumina at 100% needs 200 water/m
At 28% It'll need 56, so 22.22 + 33,33 = 55,55 or ~ 56

When you produce scrap it makes 33,6 water/m

It kind of checks out

[wind spade]

the water is produced from the scrap recipe and added to the sloppy alumina water requirement

it's not produced by sloppy alumina

[fierce ruin]

Finally ❤️ Will now start tier 7 any tips? 😄

[loud heron]

Make a fuckass load of heavy modular frames and computers

[glacial hemlock]

focus on alts unlock, and after you decided which recipe path you want to take, then go large for it. Make sure to start with nuclear setup

[fierce ruin]

Thankss

[bleak coral]

I'd start with aluminum; mk5 belts are really nice and you need casings for a bunch of the new T7/T8 stuff

[spiral flare]

Hi, currently I'm planning my aluminium production. there are two ways to produce 1 bauxit -> 2 scrap. Per blender or per sloppy- and electrode aluminium. Does anybody have an idea which is more useful?

[bleak coral]

They have the same bauxite efficiency, but instant need sulfur so if you're looking at a strictly resource efficiency standpoint it loses

[sand garnet]

define 'useful'

[bleak coral]

has a neat 1:1 setup though

1 sulfuric acid refinery to 1 instant blender, and all of that blender's waste water goes back into the sulfuric acid refinery

have to kickstart it with some seed water though

[spiral flare]

useful = efficency, hm, i should calc first the need of sulfur for my 2460 bauxite

[sand garnet]

efficiency as in 'lowest resource consumption based on weighted resources'?

if so, I recommend https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

enable all alt recipes and see what it comes up with

[bleak coral]

keep in mind maximize doesn't solve for efficiency, just most

you need to use items/min for efficiency

[spiral flare]

item efficency > time efficiency - I can allways build more factories 😄
hm ... 820 sulfur is too much

[bleak coral]

yeah the setup is neat, but only you can decide if the sulfur cost is worth it, sulfur isn't used for too much

[placid relic]

which is best recipe for Pu fuel rods

standard or alt

[sand garnet]

define best

what's your goal? easiest? most resource-efficient?

[placid relic]

not easiest, but ye most resource maximization

[bleak coral]

for perspective these are the uses sulfur has:

1. turbofuel
2. nuclear
3. batteries
4. munitions (minor usage, don't need much)
5. aluminum

instant cells & fuel unit both make the tradeoff of more power at the cost of more other resources and more waste

so which to use depends on what resources you want to save, how much waste you want to manage, and how much power you need

plut fuel unit uses a ton of bauxite

[spiral flare]

yeah, thanks for the thoughts! I allready used two pure mines for turbofuel, so I'm gonna save some mines for later

[placid relic]

i have very good factory for bauxite refinement.

[placid relic]

I'm not aiming to use them for energy but rather dumping into sink

[bleak coral]

oh if you're just dumping them don't use any alts

[placid relic]

ok got it

0 nuclear waste :D

[bleak coral]

don't be afraid of waste though, plutonium doesn't make that much

especially with no alts

you can always change you mind later though when/if you need more power of course

[signal nimbus]

Not all of the alts offer a better ratio, though.

[bleak coral]

what do you mean?

[tardy moth]

Some alts are simply really bad?

[oblique hollow]

Turbo Heavy Fuel is a good example

[bleak coral]

IMO turbo heavy fuel is the simple man's turbofuel, it's as complicated as straight fuel -> turbofuel but hor -> turbo heavy fuel saves a bunch of oil

[loud heron]

Alt recipes achieve one of two goals

They are more efficient and more complicated
They are less efficient and less complicated

Then theres a few that are overall winners and overall losers

But most fall into the first 2 categories

[glacial hemlock]

yeah, turbo fuel alts are the example of overall winner and overall loser.

[loud heron]

Turbo Blend is definitely more annoying

For initial setup at least

But it saves having to make an entire factoryline for Compacted Coal

[frosty owl]

How's it annoying? I found it so quick to set up ^^

[wind spade]

turbo blend is nice

turbo heavy is crap

[loud heron]

Im just not used to arraying machines with 4 inputs

At least I can make compacted coal factories elsewhere and pipe em in

But this is less footprint with a lil more cautious planning

[frosty owl]

Ugh, don't mention 4 inputs...
I'm currently quite mad at manifacturers -.-

[loud heron]

They are actually quite manageable with a lil bit of help from conveyer stacks

[frosty owl]

You wanna line their input to wall holes? Fine, go right ahead
Wanna line up the output too?
NOOOOOOO, why would you even think to do that?! :disappointed_snutt:

[loud heron]

They really should rework the conveyer walls to work kinda like pipeline wall holes

[frosty owl]

Either that or shift the manif's output
Note: the blender's output is shifted to one side so it doesn't have this issue even though it has 2 outputs :rolljace:

[loud heron]

For the blender I just use conveyer stacks and pipe supports to line up very well

[frosty owl]

I like to hide the belt/pipework behind walls (having them come out of wall holes) and it works fine
But if you wanna then feed the output of a manufacturer to another row of manifacturer you WILL have to bend some conveyors, unless you manifold everything or something

[bleak coral]

if you want pain, try sending a vertical stack of belts through wall holes and see how like none of them match up

[frosty owl]

Eh, I'm ok with that, since I prefer to have them spread out xD
I usually never stack for vertical transport (if I do, I use lift spines, no wall holes)

[sacred pilot]

They’d need to dynamically erase the wall texture or they’d look like the hyper tube wall holes. Which look like crap

[loud heron]

I believe you can do with some smart texture related mechanics

adding fake windows

[fierce ruin]

fake windows w/o glare

~~hole ~~ hull punch the wall

[loud heron]

I believe youd stable some sort of conveyer wall hole model onto the wall

and where the hole is is a shader that masks the original wall texture at its location

like a layer, overwriting it to look into the other side

[fierce ruin]

would changing geometry be more expensive?

[frosty owl]

I wouldn't mind even if they looked like that 🤷‍♂️
They'd bee too useful for me to care tbh

[bronze silo]

if this trips I'll be soooo frustrated, lol

[versed violet]

central storage / shopping mall / pick-a-brick question:
Do you ship all items from somewhere, or make simple ones next to boxes? Eg. why ship wire/quickwire/cable if I can siphon couple gold bars and hide couple constructor(s) behind a wall to fill my building container?

[frosty owl]

I ship small amounts in mixed belts/freights
I can usually get away with 2/3 mixed freights easily for everything

[bleak coral]

I keep it all in one central location, and get what I need via long-ass manual trains, and then store excess at the building site

though I could see just making the simple stuff on site

[bronze silo]

I have a train with carts for everything I could need to build ... then I take the train wherever I wanna build 🙂

@versed violet

I don't even have to remember where the place is ... just key in the station name 😄

[versed violet]

Not at this level of crazy yet. Only built a single factory for iron, steel and computers so far. And one for Bar-Parts

[desert creek]

does anyone have charts or info on best caterium production

[fierce ruin]

refer to https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[glacial hemlock]

@desert creek which caterium you mean?

[desert creek]

nvm im all good

[glacial hemlock]

If you mean which alternate recipe is the best, then wiki probably has half of the answer

[fierce ruin]

wiki/knowledge will allow you the context to appreciate and evaluate a solution that works best for you

[frosty sleet]

I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around how many coal gens/Water pumps i need to hit max efficiency for 270 Compacted Coal/min, could i get some advice as to where to go to find this stuff?

[fierce ruin]

compacted coal imo isn't worth the effort since fuel is a much better alternative in the long run

!wikisearch coal generator

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=coal generator

[fierce ruin]

there should be a consumption rate provided in the link above

it's just math from there

[frosty sleet]

Mm, alright, I guess if that's all i'm going off of, i got it down then. Thanks! Also, I bet it isn't that good for the long run, but i'm also still early midgame and i just got the recipe, and coal power is amazing for where i am right now, so making the best for what i've got with 1 node is pretty important rn.

[versed violet]

Make sure you overclock your miner to the sky (or whatever your max belt is), it is easier than using compacted coal.

[fierce ruin]

always overclock extractors/miners

[frosty sleet]

I've got the Coal and sulfer OC'd to the max of my belts currently, ||which is 270 ipm||, but i still want to get the compacted coal over coal, since it produces more for less.

I'm just trying to get the maths down

[bleak coral]

compacted coal is less power than an equivalent coal setup, because the constructors take power and one compacted is barely better 2 coal

might be fine if you're setting it up for a future turbofuel factory, but just by itself it's not worth burning in coal generators

[frosty sleet]

is it really less efficient? That's crazy, i didn't know that, alright. Thanks for that heads up then. I guess i'll go look into that and rework everything then

[bleak coral]

yup, when you look at the net power (total power minus cost of machines) of 270ppm compacted vs 540ppm coal it's less

[frosty sleet]

isn't compacted coal 1:1 in that 270 coal(and sulfur) goes into making 270 compacted coal?

[bleak coral]

yeah, so you're getting 540ppm resources and putting it in coal generators, so the equivalent is 540ppm coal

[frosty sleet]

Ahh, i see what you're saying. I Suppose given that i haven't really got any defined parameters, just in general Coal would be better than yeah.

But in my case, i'm using the only other pure coal node i've got access to currently to produce steel, so i've only got 1 coal node, and i've got an unused sulfur node because i haven't got into sulfur stuff just yet.

[bleak coral]

you're in grasslands right?

[frosty sleet]

correctamundo

[bleak coral]

ping for coal, look for the ping in the northwest, and go there

there's 4 normal nodes next to a big lake

and also more sulfur near there, if you just think compacted is kinda neat and damn the numbers 😛

[fierce ruin]

compacted coal hasn't been a thing since the best turbofuel recipe used it

[bleak coral]

I mean the difference isn't huge, if you're like 90% done just do it. I don't want to make you start completely over if you've done most of the work.

[frosty sleet]

Well i appreciate all the help then. I didn't realize there was 4 normal nodes out there and i am now totally going to use those instead of all this compacted coal stuff, thanks for that all.

[fierce ruin]

and steel

[frosty sleet]

well the 4 nodes are probably going to go to power, and i can use the pure node i'm not using for more steel or something, yeah.

maybe get into sulfur because i want explosives

[bleak coral]

I should get around to making that "buff compacted coal burn time" QA post, cause it just ain't right that it makes less net power

[fierce ruin]

I should get around to making that™️

[uncut pine]

good morning, any good ideas for a pc production line?

[glacial hemlock]

You can go with compacted coal, but quickly get the fuel and blend fuel unlocked, would be more efficient in the long run

[glacial hemlock]

Caterium computer with silicon circuit board.

[brave patio]

hey, question about using satisfactorytools; when it uses a decimal this precise, is there any way to meet that in underclocking? i'm pretty sure you can only go by 5 hundredths of a unit

[wind spade]

Yeah, the tools don't show full numbers

This is equal to 17% underclock on one of 33 assemblers

[granite jasper]

The tool shows the total # of desired output. You can clock the machine by typing in the desired output number and it will set the % clocking, right?

[wind spade]

Indeed, tho that'll only work for one machine

[brave patio]

ahh, i didnt realize you could type over the percentage, i was just using the slider. so is the tool usable exactly in game? I was thinking ahead about how it could possible lead to very slight over/under production if a machine was off by a slight amount given the calculators precision

[wind spade]

Yeah there may be rounding error, but usually adding +1% to the clock solves it

In the future I plan to add rounding to more decimals

[brave patio]

true, im just worried that might demand a bit more from the machine behind it lol, though im sure something that tiny hardly matters

[wind spade]

Well it will produce whatever amount you want

It may produce slightly more due to the +1%, but usually you're limited by input materials anyway

[brave patio]

fair enough, ill give it a go, thx for the help!

[topaz hedge]

Sorry for the late reply, if you copy my setup exactly, it's a bit of work (shutting fuel off&sinking belts to clear machines and swapping recipe) but you can switch from plastic or rubber output, but it's definitely possible, and quicker than building a new setup. at least if you've already built a large one.. I think my whole setup produces 1920 plastic and 2880 rubber. not just gonna build another one of those lol. To answer your question! It... depends on how you do things.. it definitely seems to favor very heavy rubber usage with alts in the late game.

So having a setup that's flexible, in that it's possible to switch from one to the other without doing much work, is really useful. if you've noticed.. I don't have any residual rubber/plastic in my setup.. so if you don't build it exact to produce 120/270/480 and use the output belt as a limiter.. you'll want to use a smart splitter with overflow to make sure the loop doesn't run low on the output. In both cases to start it, you simply throw rubber or plastic into any machine and let it warm up.

[bronze silo]

is it ever a good idea to have more than 1 fluid buffer? or would multiples be wasteful?

[zinc bane]

question,how much copper/min would i get if i had a mk3 max overclocked miner on a pure node?

same for iron too

[fierce ruin]

a mk3 miner overcloked could produce up to 1200/min, for any ore. But it would be limited by belt speed after that, so 780/min

[zinc bane]

i see,so best math it out with 780 in mind?

[regal kayak]

yes

[zinc bane]

is pesonally greatful to not have to make 60 foundries

well says 39 is needed but for my sanities sake were doing 38

ok nvm we rounding up to 40

and wait, @regal kayak correect me if im wrong but if i went for just 2 at 150%

i would max out a iron alloy setup?

this is very confusing for my brain that just got out of a 16 hour coma XC

[regal kayak]

what do you mean by maxing out?

[zinc bane]

could i possibly screenshare with ya?

wopuld make it about 100 times easier to explain

[regal kayak]

no, just try to explain here so others may answer with even better answers if i make a mistake

[zinc bane]

ok

trying to make an iron alloy setup

i have 2 pure nodes of copper and 2 of iron

trying to plan for mk3 miners as later this will be my main iron source

[regal kayak]

so with 163% oc'd mk3 miners on all of those you get 1560 copper and 1560 iron/min, you need two belts for each (4 total) to transport them, then you need 1560/20=78 foundries to smelt them, they output a total of 78*50=3900 ingots, which will need 5 belts for output

[zinc bane]

...78..

[regal kayak]

the 163% oc comes from 780/480 (780 is mk5 belt and 480 is mk3 miner output from pure node)

[zinc bane]

ok i think imma take a break today

ive been at this factory all week

also for my brains sake ill do 75 founds

as it divides nicely into 5

[frosty owl]

Check you math bro, you're off by like... 0.5% (162.5)

[frosty owl]

That actually is a good idea, since relying on maxed out mk5 belts is a bit... Tends to not work perfectly 😅
Tip: always feed MK3 pure miners to a ISC and use those outputs to "split" the 780 load in 2 non-maxed-out belts
If you feed it directly to a series of splitters, you may incur in losses

[zinc bane]

plus i cant do 78 reliably in one line

thats just plain ludicrous

@frosty owl

[frosty owl]

Wdym?

IDEALLY you should be able to, it's just that 780/mim tend to not behave like it should when splitted

[zinc bane]

so optimal setup is just a line of 75?

[fierce ruin]

or you can do several smaller lines, you don't really have an optimal setup: you can find different good setup depending on how you like to manage things.

i prefer to use smaller lines where belt capacity isn't a limiting factor, for exemple, and just replicate each of these lines as many time as needed

[dusty crow]

probably doing something wrong but how should I set up oil product development?

[sand garnet]

one pipe at a time

[dusty crow]

define

[sand garnet]

well, you cant do oil stuff without pipes lol

your question was very vague

[dusty crow]

yes but where do I set up the factory?

on the ocean near the coal gen I have?

While i'm at it

I HATE THE AMBIANCE IN THIS AREA

[sand garnet]

wherever you want

usually 'by the nodes' is easiest

[dusty crow]

yeah but I need flat space so i may do it beside ocean

[sand garnet]

foundations exist

[dusty crow]

ye

[hardy kettle]

Is there any way to snap buildings together without belts involved?

[sand garnet]

like. them transporting items to eachother without belts?

[sand garnet]

or what do you mean

[hardy kettle]

Like snap a splitter straight onto the output of a building

[sand garnet]

nope, not possible

[hardy kettle]

Stinks

[sand garnet]

that would defeat the whole point of the challenge and progression of logistics

[hardy kettle]

Thought that might solve the problem where full overclocked miner mk 3s on pure nodes would be bottlenecked by mk 5 belts

[sand garnet]

nah it wouldnt

mk5 belts have other issues

they cant handle full 780 per min right now due to performance issues causing throughput loss

1200 per min would be even worse

[hardy kettle]

But splitting the 1200 into 2 600s would possible work if we could snap a splitter straight on the miner

[sand garnet]

you'd still be sending out 1200 per min from a single spawner

that's the issue. high volume has throughput issues

and again, being able to snap them to machines directly causes several other game design issues

[unkempt cape]

A diagram I made that covers everything I've found up through tier 4. Planning...

[sand garnet]

Enjoy tier 8 lol

[unkempt cape]

Yeah I'm not in a hurry, I want to make sure I have all t4 production ready before I send up shipment 2

[distant bluff]

did i do this correctly
i want to distribute oil to refineries evenly

[fierce ruin]

it should work; but you don't need something like that: for fluid, pipe fill from bottom to top, so if your refineries (and pipes that lead to them) are all on the same level, they will fill evenly

[distant bluff]

well whats is true, but i had a thought that it wouldn't fill evenly
in the picture it would probs fill the first pipes and later the middle ones with less and the last ones even less

thx for the clear up

[fierce ruin]

unlike with belts and splitter, the difference will by small with pipes like that.

[distant bluff]

alrighty, even small differences have big impacts :D

[frosty owl]

You can achieve the same result (and with an easier building style xD) using a horizontal layout rather than a vertical onr

Though, to be fair, splitting them manifold-style and letting them fill up would yeld the same result too, with less pipes... But that's preference ^^

[high wave]

not really

for example with manifolds, where everything other than the last 2 machines will back up, and after a few minutes (depends on manifold size, stack size and comsumption/production) it will reach 100% efficiency assuming all of the inputs are correct

[brave patio]

What does SatisfactoryTools' calculator prioritize the most (space, resources, power etc.)? I'm trying a few recipe combinations, but it always wants to use lots of oil and bauxite. I'm trying to get it to use more quartz for silica, but its hard to see why it's changing my production in the way that it is

[fierce ruin]

resources

it optimizes for resources

[granite jasper]

It has its own value on each resource. It tries to use the "cheap" ones first.

[brave patio]

weird, thats why i'd have expected it to use up more stuff like quartz. like every time i make concrete with all recipes on it uses rubber concrete, while oil will be a bottleneck elsewhere in the same diagram. ig i can tell it manually it has less raw resources to work with though

and just disable the recipes i dont want, ive just been working with it for a while

[granite jasper]

Yeah it takes some tweaking to get it to work how you want. But some method needs to be the default.

[fierce ruin]

using quartz for concrete doesn't make sense since limestone is plentiful

[brave patio]

ya those were two seperate examples, that specifically was for high speed connectors, i was really surprised when it preferred the original recipe

[fierce ruin]

it's also important to note the "maximise" feature is wonky in consideration of cost

[brave patio]

true, im doing items/min on this one atm

[high wave]

it can be strange but generally gets where you want in my experience

[fierce ruin]

maximise --> x/min

[high wave]

this area can fit about 6400 water extractors and produce 768000 water per min if the math is right, and there is still the other area of water next to it that can probably fit a third of that

also thats accounting for pipe space

and power poles

[versed violet]

Stupid question: Anyone tried building water extractors deep underwater?

[pastel vapor]

why do i wanna build this

[high wave]

pure EVERYTHING

honestly tho with that you could easily do full utilization and max every pure ingot

and crystal and concrete and stuff

[versed violet]

Pure copper gives more than copper alloy per copper ore?

[fierce ruin]

!wikisearch hard drive

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=hard drive

[fierce ruin]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/d/d9/Recipe_Quick_Reference.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210508124521 yes

see copper ingot

[high wave]

alloy is 10->20 (200% increase)
pure is 6->15 (250% increase)

also pure doesnt consume a lot of iron

14k iron ore is a lot

[versed violet]

Didn't realize it was so efficient.

Buut... does anyone actualy max out the copper nodes?

[fierce ruin]

then there's power too

[high wave]

copper is often a bottleneck for things like supercomputers or ADS'

although something to note is iron alloy is very slightly better than pure iron

but also copper>iron because scarcity so pure iron is better

[fierce ruin]

I agree iron isn't worth copper

[high wave]

also power isnt a huge problem

max nuclear is 1.19 tw

[versed violet]

Not a problem as long as you have free storage space

[frosty owl]

(The subject was pipes xD)

[high wave]

ik, that was an example of where small differences dont matter

[frosty owl]

Note: pure copper, pure caterium and fused quickwire mean
1 CP ore+ 1 CT ore = 6 quickwire
Clean numbers

[high wave]

whats the raw ore for 6 fused wire lol

0.01667 ct
0.32 cp
lol

[frosty owl]

2 copp and 1.6 cat every 30 wire

[fierce ruin]

Oh, so I don't need to export water for fertile uranium yes?

[gray rock]

Why do pipes hate me

[fathom shell]

Is there a list of Alt-Recipes that you highly recommend? Haven't dabbled in Meta since initial release. I guess getting rid of screws is still a high priority?

[topaz hedge]

Wouldn't really say there's a list. Almost all alts are useful given the right circumstances. Screws can fall under personal preferences, and some alts are generally all around useful. Ex solid steel

[sand garnet]

It also depends on where are in the tech tree

[glacial hemlock]

@fathom shell although not completely done, you can find some alt analysis on the wiki pages, either on the item page (eg, 'screw') or on 'hard drive' page. Other community analysis on reddit also worth to check out. Resource efficiency, complexity, power, space, ... it depends on which parameters you value

[distant bluff]

how far can i go until i reach the death barrier

[glacial hemlock]

@distant bluff !wikisearch map

!wikisearch map

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=map

[deft lichen]

hah, handy embed for once

[distant bluff]

thanks

[glacial hemlock]

@deft lichen this is one of the rare case where the preview image is actually what we need

[deft lichen]

yeah 😛

[glacial hemlock]

@distant bluff you can't see your coordinates in game by normal means, though, have to open with console 'sort of cheat tool'

[distant bluff]

ait

[sand garnet]

The other handy one:

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[bronze silo]

hey guys, planning the layout of a mega factory but have not progressed to the latest stages of the game yet ... how many different ingots are in the game please?

[sand garnet]

!wikisearch ingot

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=ingot

[high wave]

you may want to get to the end of the game before planing a mega factory

[bronze silo]

noooooooo, lol

thanks @sand garnet

[high wave]

i gave up on spreadsheets for this one

[bronze silo]

😄

I build modular and perfect rations when it's not too overwhelming, lol

[upbeat granite]

https://toolbox.satisfactory.lucek.io/compare-recipes

what dose the number above the total rate mean?

[high wave]

i found a problem :(

[bronze silo]

planning my factory is fun ...

spending more time in planning than building today 😄

[high wave]

me every day

[bronze silo]

😄

what tools do you use to plan @high wave ?

[high wave]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[bronze silo]

thanks!

[high wave]

np

[fathom shell]

It would be something like: Saving high valued resources (like uranium alt recipes way back when) > Work Steps (like screws) > Anything else

[high wave]

im normally against using external tools designed for the game but no human can memorize every alternate and every resource cost

[fathom shell]

I think that is part of the fun, slime

[high wave]

not in the final stages of end game it isnt

[fathom shell]

If you planned accordingly, the endgame should be rather easy, no?

[high wave]

nope

im talking about getting the absolute most possible resources from the entire map

[wind spade]

you can definitely play the game without using external tools, however the complexity of the math behind making more efficient factories make it pretty much mandatory to use some kind of external help to do so

[high wave]

i havent used tools up to the point where i want to begin the factory to make these outputs

the factory alone will consume ~500 gw

and that doesnt account for 1k+ water extractors and every mine on the map

and the power my pc will consume trying to render it all

[fathom shell]

What would be the most efficient way to transport items? Would it be drones now? Or is it trains? (is the bug fixed that trains are splitting at intersections? So you can have one big train grid to reach everything?)

[wind spade]

most efficient by which terms? power? throughput? complexity of build?

iirc the bug with trains doesn't exist anymore

[fathom shell]

Throughput

[wind spade]

one train can have pretty much unlimited throughput

you just add more cars to it

so it's a clear winner I guess 🤷

[high wave]

what is the most lag efficient?

ig that depends on the throughput

[fathom shell]

Is there a rule of thumb as to how many cars you would recommend greeny?

[high wave]

1 belt is better than 1 train but 100 belts is probably not better than 1 long train

[high wave]

depends on incline

if you only use the middle ramps as a max incline 1 engine per 4 cars

the 2x8 ramps or their double version

[frosty owl]

Any reason not to include uranium fuel rods in the plan?

[glacial hemlock]

then resource efficiency would likely be your focus. On wiki, it is labelled as 'WP' under alternate recipe analysis section

reddit analysis

wiki analysis

in terms of resource efficiency, caterium circuit board is slightly better than quartz. Electrode circuit board is meh

[glacial hemlock]

if the round trip is less than 8min 12 sec, then 1 car per belt is reasonable. It is impossible to achieve exactly 2 belts per car due to some weird game mechanic, but close to 2 is possible.

that's based on stack size 200, if stack size is less, you have to shorten the round trip too.

[oblique hollow]

im having a really hard time analysing Polymer Resin Alt + Recycled Rub/Plast because Recycling Math.
Also Greeny's tool has a hard time accepting rubber as an input and then outputting more rubber

Maximize sorta works

buuut it doesnt work for both materials as inputs

These Recycled Recipes really make my head hurt

[frosty owl]

Recursion go brrr

[wind spade]

Why do you need rubber as input AND output?

[oblique hollow]

Analysis of converting polymer resin into rubber (because residual plastic sucks) and then using that to feed the recycled loop

[glacial hemlock]

resin always goes into rubber and not plastic. That's it

[oblique hollow]

simply to determine how far you can get with the polymer resin alt

[frosty owl]

Doesn't the tool automatically use polymer rubber to kickstart loops anyway?

[wind spade]

No

[glacial hemlock]

the analysis of plastic and rubber is sort of done, on wiki

[oblique hollow]

best it could do

so i just turned rubber into more rubber

300 oil to 525 Rubber

[magic shadow]

you turned rubber into less rubber what

[oblique hollow]

i didnt use all the rubber

325 - 66,66666

[magic shadow]

ah

[oblique hollow]

look closely

the most plastic it could make with the limited HOR output is 400, and that uses 200 Rubber

so 400 Plastic and 125 Rubber

however, you can do some funny rebalancing to convert some plastic back into rubber

aaaaaand thats where the problem is

Also Greeny's Tool cant do math, it just turned 100 HOR into 323 fuel

[glacial hemlock]

lol, that's funny

[oblique hollow]

when you limit the raw inputs, it just breaks

it just tried to make residual fuel out of nothing

i did it. i found the limit of the Polymer Alt

300 Oil in = 262,5 Rubber and 262,5 Plastic Out

thats with recursive recycling

[mortal timber]

I never used refinery alts, except for steamed copper sheet, but if you can, use them they are good alts.

[wind spade]

technically having input of 200 plastic and producing 500 plastic is the same as just producing 300 plastic

so I don't think you need to do both input and output

[oblique hollow]

it was only a test

since i wanted to produce 2 things

also, you gotta check out the math xd.
its not great when it uses things it shouldnt

[wind spade]

yeah it's broken with maximise + input, but feel free to post the production line so I can verify it's not some other bug

[oblique hollow]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Zbaqi1fmTPzaOPOcMIb3

it is maximize + input

[wind spade]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

so it might be that

[wind spade]

hoping for v2 to fix this

but v2 is long before finished

[high wave]

that was the mistake i had made lol

[frosty owl]

Opsie, no power

[high wave]

this is the new plan

because this website doesnt know what nuclear reactors are i had to make uranium rods, then add waste as an additional input and make plutonium

[mortal timber]

are you using the uranium for power, and are you sinking the plutonium?

[high wave]

im going to make a setup that lets me turn on sections of plutonium power remotely as needed

so i will only be using as much plutonium as i need and sinking the rest

[frosty owl]

Updates to fix that will come soon™️
#Praise-Greeny

[high wave]

i think my method for remotely turning on plutonium rod consumption is pretty smart

il make a diagram 1 sec

[mortal timber]

power switch to the plutonium nuc plant

[high wave]

wrong

even if it is disconnected from the main grid it will continue producing power

[mortal timber]

oh

[high wave]

and therefore waste

let me introduce you to this garbage drawing

incredibly oversimplified, here is the key:

[wind spade]

more like

[high wave]

grey: plutonium rod production
yellow: sink
green: reactor
purple: switch
black lines: conveyor
red lines: power
back squiggle: smart splitter

how it works is it prioritizes the sink

and when the sink is turned off rods fill the conveyor and are then sent to the reactors

[mortal timber]

😮 wow, I didn't even think of that

[high wave]

and you can have different switches for each reactor, 1 switch for all reactors, or anywhere in between

[mortal timber]

ok, I have a weird idea for this, that might work. I'm not the best in remote turning on and off.

[high wave]

well any idea is better than none

[mortal timber]

true

[frosty owl]

If you connect the rods to the power plant with anything that isn belts, you could have a switch controlling that ^^ (Eg, switch on the loading station for rods)

[high wave]

well that would eventually fill up and back up everything

[frosty owl]

No, it goes to sink, ofc :P

[high wave]

well thats just my system with extra steps lol

[frosty owl]

It's just a system that does not rely on belts 🤷‍♂️

[high wave]

also because of how the logic for that would work there would be a buffer of rods in your train station

[frosty owl]

Nope, unpowered stations don't let items in. Assuming you're using ALL the rods/min at the unload, you won't be stockpiling

[high wave]

eh i just feel like that is redundant if you already have the splitter on the belt

[frosty owl]

They are DIFFERENT systems
Belts work on the assumption that your power plant is close to the plutonium production site (unless you just like having kilometric belts ofc xD)

[mortal timber]

Its a long shot but it might work...

[frosty owl]

Explain it some more?

[mortal timber]

the red is power line, and the black is conver line, the splitters are the squiggles with priority to the sink.

[high wave]

i think i see how that works

the idea is that the sink will always have power because of the fuel plant, and the fuel plant can be cut off at any point

[mortal timber]

The truck line makes it so that it delivers the fuel so that it is off for 1 second intervals.

it will back up so that is can go to the nuc plant

then making more power, with most of it going into the sink

[high wave]

but then how do you toggle it?

[mortal timber]

I havnt doen something like this so it might now work.

[high wave]

also what this will do is just change the direction of overflow

[mortal timber]

you can toggle it by a power switch on the outside, making packaged fuel to send off.

[mortal timber]

like I said I havnt done something like this.

[high wave]

i was talking about .@'s idea with train stations

[mortal timber]

hold on I have a better idea.

[frosty owl]

Sounds like terribly complicated imo xD
A simpler version would be a switch for the packager (basically powering up the fuel Gen) to toggle the sink on/off... But that's literally Slime's sulystem with extra steps

[high wave]

what your system does is send it to the train station and by extension the nuclear plant, with excess going to a sink, while my one sends it to the sink with excess going to the power plants

they both work, and ig it is just dependent on if you want to use trains or not

[mortal timber]

Here is another bad drawing.

red is train line.

[frosty owl]

Yeah, in a way that is so. They work very similarly
If you replace the belt from the smart splitter to the power plant with any kind of logistic, it works the same, but if you cut off the power to said logistics you get a bit more power back then cutting it off from the sink

Except for trucks, let us not get those into the equation since they run out of fuel xD

[high wave]

you get more back but in my system you just dont use it in the first place

my system has a sink on while inactive and off while active, yours has a train station and sink on while active and a sink on while inactive

[frosty owl]

Why would you assume everyone uses belts for their plut rods though? 🤷‍♂️

[high wave]

depends how close your rod factory is yo your power plant

[frosty owl]

Yeah, that's what I said xD

[high wave]

but plutonium will be close to power plants anyways

because it is made with waste

[frosty owl]

Debatable

[high wave]

there is no point seperating your uranium and plutonium plants

id rather have 1 highly radioactive area than 2 moderately radioactive ones

at least for me id rather have everything radioactive in 1 small space, so it doesnt make sense to me to transport stuff more than a few hundred meters from where the plants are other than plutonium waste

[frosty owl]

Logistic convenience.
If you have an area where you have materials for plut processing aviable and don't care about radiation there, it's easier to have 1 train bring the waste in and the plutonium out rather then transporting the whole mix of (usually quite costly) resources far away

[high wave]

true

my plan is to centralize all resources (mostly) anyways so that i can use all of them easily

[frosty owl]

Also: spreading out your base is good FPS wise
The uranium part isn't that radioactive anyway in the first place, outside of the building. It's the plutonium that gives you damage even getting close to the factory

[mortal timber]

I feel like this is a good drawing of my idea.

[high wave]

yea thats what .@ was talking about

[frosty owl]

If your plan is as big as you showed... I stronglysuggest against that. Anyone who built a megabase agrees on this: spread out or have your FPS drop terribly

[high wave]

yea i will be spreading out the largest parts of it

[mortal timber]

This is just a demonstration. Not the plan.

[high wave]

mostly the water, ingots and first few levels of production will be in 3 locations in a triangle almost as big as the map

[mortal timber]

I mark the general ones bigger to show their importance.

[frosty owl]

It's the same of what I described after hearing Slime's idea xD