when Y, is climbing Everest, turning 1 degree, and then coming down 1 degree from yoru starting point, when you could have taken a 100 m walk around the base.
#math-and-meta
hazy garden
frosty owl
The simplest solution to an issue isn't always
-The best one
-The most good looking one
-The most fun to find and apply
And those seem like good enough reasons for me to waste brainpower
I mean, one could ask: why waste brainpower when you could NOT play the game in the first place :rolljace:
bronze silo
hey guys, whats your fav circuit board recipe?
gusty nexus
the crystal one
grand violet
caterium
supple mural
three wire and one iron plate
grand violet
tho I seemingly have questionable choices
bronze silo
I just got an option of the plastic and quickwire one that produces plenty ... can silica be automated?
hazy garden
I am glad you brain power is blissfully used! Mine is all used up, and I have to go tutor someone, AND I had to use most of it to scrounge up enough interest in the channel to really tackle it! And I still did it, and now I am just going to go try and piece together my sanity while teaching a kid pre algebra
frosty owl
Mhh... Off topic much, but have fun? 
grand violet
I just got an option of the plastic and quickwire one that produces plenty ... c...
you might wanna take a look into the factory I just finished by solving this math :D
proven prawn
The simplest solution to an issue isn't always
-The best one
-The most good look...
my manifold design would disagree, simple, good looking, fun to find and apply, and its one of the simplest solutions.
hazy garden
And not knowing that slower belt has priority with splitters, because again I have never used this solution, could have saved me so m uch time.
sigh
muted crypt
I guess on the topic of the circuit boards, is it worth it to use the circuit board that uses rubber?
bronze silo
nice ... I got a bucket load of quartz
frosty owl
my manifold design would disagree, simple, good looking, fun to find and apply, ...
Would you be surprised if I said I prefer how balancer looks over manifolds? :P
(Except for manifacturers since I don't like having stacked belts behind them)
muted crypt
but quartz is rarer than caterium iirc
By 540/min, yes
hazy garden
you might wanna take a look into the factory I just finished by solving this mat...
No offense, I really don't. You build entirely too tightly to the point of preventing anything from being fixable, troubleshootable except by yourself, as demonstrated in the last 2 hours
bronze silo
then I can reserve my plastic for computers
proven prawn
Would you be surprised if I said I prefer how balancer looks over manifolds? :P
...
then i would say you prefer complex more math heavy designs, which it fine, i was just pointing out a case in point in which a simple design can easily meet most of those definitions you gave.
supple mural
No offense, I really don't. You build entirely too tightly to the point of preve...
thats the best way to build
hazy garden
I personally build it expanded and then observe anything I might have missed or messed up, and then I build it more compact, and iterate on that
bronze silo
I love how the idea recipe cahnges in this game as we go explore ... 'tis a great game mechanic I have never seen anywhere else
hazy garden
I never start with an ouroboros
topaz hedge
No offense, I really don't. You build entirely too tightly to the point of preve...
you can ask ven, my builds are pretty compact. but at least they're segmented into "modules" or whatever :p
muted crypt
I love how the idea recipe cahnges in this game as we go explore ... 'tis a grea...
Burger king but factory: build it your way
hazy garden
you can ask ven, my builds are pretty compact. but at least they're segmented in...
yeah, and they are readable!
bronze silo
indeed
rare surge
I am glad you brain power is blissfully used! Mine is all used up, and I have to...
See, I think its an intresting subject; how to ensure a certain item flow within the bounds of the game. With that said, I don't think the given solution is entirely useful within the game.
I don't think there's an absolute reliable method in game currently. Not until we get something like logic circuitry to toggle active states of structures OR a priority merger
The example Vencam gave for a 100/50 isn't reliable between saves; it has a chance to hiccup if the 'side' the merger picks to give first priority to differs from the side that it should have before loading.
muted crypt
Is my turbo fuel plant compact?
topaz hedge
yeah, and they are readable!
Somewhat. lol
muted crypt
There's a SCIM screenshot somewhere
topaz hedge
Is my turbo fuel plant compact?
mcgallon was a brave man to go into that and make it work for you lol
muted crypt
mcgallon was a brave man to go into that and make it work for you lol
I am forever grateful for his help to get the last 12 GW out of it
hazy garden
See, I think its an intresting subject; how to ensure a certain item flow within...
Eeeek, @frosty owl
muted crypt
I was stuck floating around 110 GW before his help.. now I'm up to 123900 MW as I should be
hazy garden
And lets compolicate that with 3x2 possible russian-load-roulettes!
bronze silo
which of these would you guys take?
muted crypt
not 2™️
gusty nexus
definitely not the steel
hazy garden
pure cat probably
rare surge
pure cat
gusty nexus
1 and 3 are both potentially useful
muted crypt
Just get every drive duh
bronze silo
lol
topaz hedge
eh, 1,2,3 could be useful..
bronze silo
😄
topaz hedge
1 and 3 kinda go togeather.
hazy garden
Yeah! #globetrotters
gusty nexus
the issue with 1 is the space and power requirements to run the pure recipe
topaz hedge
the issue with not using 1 is running out of caterium >.>
bronze silo
I went for 1
grand violet
eventually you will probably have all recipes
hazy garden
eventually, allegedly... <only 54 more to go, come on! damn the distractions!>
grand violet
so when the time comes around to need way more cat you can already have a compact computer factory
rare surge
Yea, I take #1 before most other cat-involved recipes. Yes its got more demands, but it saves from having to trek the map hitting more nodes as often
frosty owl
then i would say you prefer complex more math heavy designs, which it fine, i wa...
I CERTANELY do prefer math heavy designs, but I try not to force those on others, simply suggest what I think they're looking for regardless of complexity (it's not like I say "just balance" or "just manifold" regardless of the situation)
hazy garden
Thanatos wants to have a word ven
proven prawn
And lets compolicate that with 3x2 possible russian-load-roulettes!
sounds great, let me know how that works out.
hazy garden
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
topaz hedge
The irony is, isn't the whole purpose of steel to remove the carbon from iron ore where as on here... we're putting carbon back into it? o.o
proven prawn
I CERTANELY do prefer math heavy designs, but I try not to force those on others...
my factory is a combination of load balanced and manifold, so i do a bit of many different design, though i have been going more toward manifold just because its simple and get the job done in enough situation and is usually faster to setup then balanced design, though think the complexity of balanced design are fun to setup in their more complex nature, so i might go back to doing more like them.
frosty owl
See, I think its an intresting subject; how to ensure a certain item flow within...
Honestly, I doubt such a hiccup would be noticeable
You have an equal chance to have 1 more item going in the machine or not, so wouldn't you sometimes get 1 more and sometimes 1 less each time you open up the game? (So if you have a few items in machine inventory to begin with you probably wouldn't notice at all)
rare surge
The irony is, isn't the whole purpose of steel to remove the carbon from iron or...
No. Steel production IRL is to remove other impurities. Infact you want/need to increase carbon in the iron for steel's crystal structure to form properly
proven prawn
The irony is, isn't the whole purpose of steel to remove the carbon from iron or...
very interesting point, so what we have here isnt actually steel then hmmmm
topaz hedge
No. Steel production IRL is to remove other impurities. Infact you want/need to ...
Is it, I thought the whole purpose of the blast furnace was to burn all that shit out
frosty owl
The irony is, isn't the whole purpose of steel to remove the carbon from iron or...
Erm... Steel is carbon + iron? O.o
supple mural
Is it, I thought the whole purpose of the blast furnace was to burn all that shi...
its to get rid of the oxygen in the iron ore
proven prawn
Honestly, I doubt such a hiccup would be noticeable <:thinking_helmet:4799287344...
if you want to get more technical as the framerate gets worse the precious of the way the its currently being done is being lost so the system in itself will become more unpredictable, basically the lower your fps the less the system will behave in a predictable way, we have way to much frame dependent code to really make the math stable in a predictable way, which is a growing issue.
topaz hedge
apparently steel is ~2.4% carbon by weight XD I stand corrected.
supple mural
the impurities form at the top as slag, i believe, and the oxugen leaves as carbon dioxide
frosty owl
Specifically, you call "iron" the "steel" with less than 2% carbon (since it's chemical properties become similar to iron than steel)
Don't quote me on the number
supple mural
and for some reason carbon impurities make iron good
frosty owl
Btw, over 6% carbon gives "pig iron"
topaz hedge
so too little carbon = soft ductal, it's like copper wire but too much carbon is bad too. I should've been more into metallurgy lol
frosty owl
and for some reason carbon impurities make iron good
Cause steel is better than iron :P (more carbon makes it similar to steel)
Funfact: the "best" irons in history were mostly iron with a lot of impurities aka low-quality steel
frosty owl
so too little carbon = soft ductal, it's like copper wire but too much carbon is...
Too much carbon is too hard and brittle
Very unlike what @God of HyperDeath#6035 said xD
supple mural
all i know about metallurgy is that neodymium does not work as a magnet unless you alloy it with something else first
rare surge
pig iron is too like, mushy, right?
Yes an no. It doesn't have a crystaline structure to it. it comprised of small balls of iron, carbon and impurities.
supple mural
oh, so brittle
i c
also REEE this message rate limit is annoying. i have a tendency to complete thoughts over multiple messages, and this means i need to wait five seconds between short thoughts
frosty owl
if you want to get more technical as the framerate gets worse the precious of th...
True, reason why I'm trying to make my setups balanced and "lag resistant" :P
Eg: rely on direct feed CS overflow and similar tricks that don't currently make it to the surface of my brain
rare surge
But yea, back to the original topic - You need to add carbon to iron to get steel. The carbon atoms are used to bind the iron-atoms into a crystaline structure that makes it far more durable than iron atoms alone. But if you add too much carbon, or there's other impurities with the iron, you get pig iron which doesn't devolope a uniform crystaline structure
frosty owl
||Off topic Funfact: to make steel, you first mix iron with carbon and get pig iron. Than you keep the amount you want (pig iron has its uses) and process the rest by "extracting" the carbon, lowering the percentage until you get the kind of steel or pig iron you want
At least this is how steel is made on industrial scales||
rare surge
Vencam, it depends on the method used. The first industrial methods were to over-carbon the iron creating pig iron then work the product to remove carbon until it is what we'd consider steel. But today's methods skip creating pigiron
frosty owl
Eh, I'm pretty sure most industries in my area still use the carbon reduction method, but that's just a guess
proven prawn
and then suddenly complex explanations
frosty owl
And #off-topic-general much 
unborn ermine
frosty owl
I use spoilers to cover up stuff when it gets "too off topic" to me xD
torpid robin
Trick me Into thinking it’s some sort of super awesome bit of secret Info
proven prawn
Trick me Into thinking it’s some sort of super awesome bit of secret Info
it could be
supple mural
its the inner workings of the foundry
loud heron
I think Ive solved our issues with faster conveyers bugging out
We just package em in stacks of stacks lol
umbral harbor
What's the math for calculating power usage for under/overclocking?
bleak coral
bleak coral
it's not something we can count, it's not an in-game object limit
it's a uobject limit, which is an unreal engine thing
each item is made up of multiple uobjects, we don't know exactly how many each one is made up of
but like production buildings have more than foundations for example
bronze silo
not so easy to fill even will full 270 lines 😛
desert glen
The irony is, isn't the whole purpose of steel to remove the carbon from iron or...
"To make steel, iron ore is heated and melted in furnaces where the impurities are removed and carbon added."
frosty owl
What's the max build limit?
I heard around 2 mill uobjects... Which could mean about 20k machines or 2 mill walls afaik
loud heron
2 M huh...
frosty owl
Can still be increased by modifying some files, with all the risks coming from that (instability mostly, I guess)
A couple people did so
frosty owl
You passed the obj limit already?
torpid robin
i started again so no
but my last save i would of
kibitz and dan p needed it. and my save was larger than theirs
and everytime people tried to load in it would never work. unless i gave them the ini file and it would
frosty owl
"To make steel, iron ore is heated and melted in furnaces where the impurities a...
It's not like that is the only way to make steel 🤷♂️
Has been discussed below the message you're answering even if off topic
dull bolt
2 M huh...
It can be changed in the .ini files. There is a way to increase the max number, but it's not recommended™️
muted crypt
Basically once you have issues beyond the default UObject limit, CSS can't help you with those issues anymore
torpid robin
I mean it’s fine if you accept the instability lol
Yea it’s a UE restriction . But they can optimise the game though to make things use less uobjecta
bleak coral
you want to know what one of the biggest offenders is?
torpid robin
Paint ?
dull bolt
Nope, conveyors.
torpid robin
I mean I assumed that
But it sounded too simple lol
But I do know paint causes a lot of problems. Maybe not with uobjects though
dull bolt
I think paint causes additional drawcalls, but I'm not sure on that statement.
bleak coral
got distracted, but it's fog!
umbral harbor
got distracted, but it's fog!
I thought I heard today that isn't true
bleak coral
I'm trying to find the clip for it, but I only found that it has performance issues, so maybe I misremembered: https://youtu.be/fRnLlewf3U0?t=44
umbral harbor
Today I learned walls don't help with performance anymore.
I've spent so much time walling off Factories.
So much time
frosty owl
Be smart, use smart
bleak coral
I actually got to ask Ben that the other day (same "day" as I joked I'd stay till 3 in the morning to ask, and then I actually did), and apparently I was wrong and it can: #satisfactory message
so not a waste of time!
frosty owl
Why is it so hard to open these links in mobile, ffs
bleak coral
idk, they just don't seem to work in mobile
frosty owl
Using "open in browser" did the trick... For whatever reason (still opened in Discord)
topaz hedge
No. https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/how-steel-is-made/#:~:text=To%20make%20ste...
Well, yes, in that carbon is removed in slag as stuff like limestone is added to remove impurities from it and then it's readded to make steel. xd
topaz hedge
I think paint causes additional drawcalls, but I'm not sure on that statement.
I think they had mentioned with the new engine, that different colors didn't result in additional drawcalls, I hope not.. I've been going ham with the color gun
dull bolt
I think they had mentioned with the new engine, that different colors didn't res...
Depends on the implementation, hence the "I'm not sure" statement 🙂
tacit vine
I had a question about Turbofuel, i noticed on the wiki that it said Fuel Generators= Turbofuel production rate/4.5 the new turbofuel recipe give 45 turbofuel a minute would that mean i could make 10 fuel generators?
frosty owl
It means one machine making turbofuel at 100% can sustain 10 generators running at 100%
tacit vine
Ah ok thanks!
cold light
Anyone has a picture equivalent to this but with correct number for Update 4?
+https:
bronze silo
production goal fail! 😛
torpid robin
got distracted, but it's fog!
so having off is a good thing?
torpid robin
I think they had mentioned with the new engine, that different colors didn't res...
i thought that was coming when they reworked the paint gun and the amount of colours you could pick.? or has that been done in this patch?
bronze silo
oops! 😄
dull bolt
My eyes!
iron smelt
Any fluid/pipe specialist here?
tribal flint
What is the best way to improve pipe flow rate ?? Don't know how it all works
wind spade
- don't transport fluids too far
- don't transport them too high up
- if you want to transport them high, make sure to have enough pumps
- be careful with maxed pipes, if you feed a row of machines, feed them from both sides
queen rivet
Not sure if the recent update changed things, but one of the more surprising ways of killing fps was destroying a lot of the plants in an area. It resulted in the overall terrain being "not default" where it basically had to actively erase all of the destroyed items.
sand garnet
I dont think that has changed
cold light
When setting a valve, it means that liquid can't flow the opposite way right?
(and it limits the flow in the direction of the valve)
sand garnet
Yes
oblique hollow
When you enter a value in the valve, dont forget to press enter
Else it doesnt register
lavish loom
https://dontasktoask.com/ <@440249002382983169>
I fucking love this and the others it mentions at the end, bookmarked 😆
wintry dragon
When setting a valve, it means that liquid can't flow the opposite way right?
Excess pressure ( limiting a pipe with 600m3 flowing down to 10 for example) can over power the valve by about 15% from what I’ve seen.
waxen shore
does it make any sense spending coal on coal burners after I have fuel unlocked? or should I turn it in products?
muted crypt
unless you've set up a massive permanent power plant that provides a ton of power (i.e. if you're still progressing through the game normally) I'd say keep it
loud heron
Keep your coal plants until you make enough fuel generators to replace em
Then you can begin expanding your fuel plant at the same time using the coal for other things
fierce ruin
does it make any sense spending coal on coal burners after I have fuel unlocked?...
If the coal plants are garbage I say upgrade. Keep em until you can replace then.
neon wraith
Can someone check my math? If I use up all 3 (Normal) Uranium Nodes @ 600 ore per min each, I can make 43.2 uranium fuel rods a minutes correct?
signal nimbus
Yes.
neon wraith
ok cool, do ppl normaly do 100% nucelar? or the 250%?
i'm just trying to figure out if its possible to get 108 x3 for the slugs
signal nimbus
I think just one node is pretty typical, 100% is like a world goal.
neon wraith
or just set up the 216 nuclear recactors for the 43.2 rods
versed violet
Given how much space they take, I prefer overclocked fits nicely with 1 man per generator
neon wraith
the wiki says its .2 rods per min for 100% reactor, and .4 for 250% reactor
1 man per gen?
versed violet
with default recipe 1 man at 100% yes
neon wraith
im trying to figure out the best way to 100% that 1800 urnaium ore
i don't under stand "1 man"
versed violet
1 manufacturer crafting default recipe makes 0.4 uranium rod per minute which is equal to what one full oc nuke uses
versed violet
yes it does, then you can run 3 plants from 2 manufacturers
signal nimbus
I played with some ratios and overclocking on a nuclear plant... turns out you can easily get nice lines of 10 to handle the ore.
neon wraith
144 MANs total for 216 or 108 Ractors
loud heron
Thats alot of reactors
signal nimbus
Well... not easily, but easily enough.
neon wraith
i'd like to use the Slugs for miners as I'm trying to use 100% resources on the map
so was thinking doing the 216 reactors
signal nimbus
Also doing Plutonium?
neon wraith
I haven't done the math on the platinum yet ether. I figure that would add more reactors
I already have the space for 15x15 for the urnaium reactors
signal nimbus
Yep. I know with the default recipes it's 50% more. Can't speak for other recipe chains.
signal nimbus
They do, but some get weird.
There's one that brings in Uranium Ore towards the end.
neon wraith
?
signal nimbus
That's what I said.
neon wraith
can you elabrate?
signal nimbus
Lemme find the one.
loud heron
There is an alternate recipe that turns uranium ore into plutonium using its waste as well
I dont think its entirely great of a recipe
signal nimbus
Fertile Uranium
neon wraith
ok Encased Platurium Cells use NON fiffsle uranium
signal nimbus
That's what it makes.
neon wraith
ALTER
rotund blade
whats the best way to do to coal power? i doubt just a line of splitters is the most optimal way to feed them all
loud heron
whats the best way to do to coal power? i doubt just a line of splitters is the ...
its what I did lol
neon wraith
What i did too
loud heron
A long ass conveyer of 480/m coal
neon wraith
yea
loud heron
and a beachside to expand infinitely as needed
neon wraith
it burns the coal SLOW, so they stack inside the genrators
loud heron
It's enough to get to fuel
rotund blade
yea but i need to be constantly be adding more coal at later points cause it'll not supply enough on its own
neon wraith
yea but i need to be constantly be adding more coal at later points cause it'll ...
you'll get fuel before you need to worry
You can concert ONE oil location to nothing but Fuel, and you'll have enough power till you start 100% using all resourses
convert*
damnit so much more math now
torpid robin
yea but i need to be constantly be adding more coal at later points cause it'll ...
As long as you have matched correctly a line of splitters is perfect for what you wanna do. The only ones that won’t get as much will be the end couple but they will still get enough to run. If you have to top them up . You Havnt mathed it right . Each coal gen uses 15 coal pm
neon wraith
damn, i wish someone had the math done already on best way to use that 1800 uranium for the most power
frosty owl
Just use alt recipes, all of them (There's 2 choices for each processing step)
neon wraith
im talking about how much i should convert to uranirum rods
and how much i should convert to the plutonium rods
frosty owl
Why do want to use uranium to make plutonium rods?
neon wraith
because it looks like you can make more Plut rods
and they burn x2 longer
with some of the Uranium waste, and more uranium ore you can make a TON of the non-fiss uranium
then convert that into the plut rods
frosty owl
It is true, but it still yelds less power than maxing nuclear with all uranium and then converting the waste in plutonium "normally"
There's a whole text wall I could link about that if I knew how on mobile but... Tldr: maxing nuclear with the fertile uranium recipe yelds less power than "max uranium+plutonium" but produces more plutonium waste
neon wraith
gotcha
so stick with the 216 urnaium reactors
then convert the waste to plut for more reactors?
frosty owl
Yep. The fertile uranium route is probably for people with peculiar resource needs (cuts down on some resources) imo
neon wraith
hmm gotcha, would love to see the numbers on the Fertile route
frosty owl
Lemme dig them up
neon wraith
Lemme dig them up
I thank you
frosty owl
Plutonium recipes analysis. TLDR in the Conclusions (bottom)
Max uranium rods + Max plutonium rods, aka Max Plutorium (All alts except the fertile uranium)
You pump in as many exotic materials as you can to get the biggest amount of nuclear power possible, which is 1.19 TW from 50.4 Uranium Fuel Rods and 22.4 Plutonium Fuel Rods.
Particularly heavy on "rare" resources, as it takes:
-8512 Nitrogen Gas (8k purely for acid)
-3108 Sulfur
-1972.8 Quartz
-1493.33 Bauxite.
That is excluding the 22.4 Pressure Conversion Cubes needed for the Plutonium Fuel Rods.
The nuclear processing alone (the processing of uranium and plutonium products) requires 45 Assemblers, 168 Manifacturers, 68 Blenders and 45 Particle Accelerators (~48 GW)
Partial Uranium + Fertile Uranium plutonium processing, aka Max Plutonium (All alts, using fertile uranium)
By diving the uranium at the ratio of 41,67:50 (which are the amounts needed to make 1 Uranium Fuel Rod and 1 Plutonium Fuel Rod respectively) between the uranium and plutonium processing, you achieve a slightly smaller amount of power while saving on "rare" resources. The output is 1.05 TW (1'049'875 MW) from 22.91 Uranium Fuel Rods and 30.54 Plutonium Fuel Rods.
The required materials (excluding the extra 8.14 Pressure Conversion Cubes for the Plutonium Rods) are (difference compared to Max Plutorium in parenthesis):
-7941.44 Nitrogen Gas ( -570.56 )
-2082.41 Sulfur ( -1025.59 )
-539.97 Quartz ( -1432.83 )
-2036.27 Bauxite ( +542.94 )
The machines required are 62 Assemblers, 78 Manifacturers, 46 Blenders, 62 Particle Accelerators (~55 GW)
Note: this method produces the biggest possible amount of plutonium waste
The save on resources mentioned are overall inferior to the CURRENT ones (this message was made before the final balancing)
frosty owl
Nothing
neon wraith
so I should use 100% uranium then on the rods
frosty owl
It's the simplest solution and also the one that yelds more power :)
neon wraith
i don't know why i thought you needed uranium for something...
I swore i heard Kibiitz say something about needed it for something else
frosty owl
Maybe he was trying to set up a fertile uranium setup too? ^^
It DOES save on some resources, so it has its appeal (unless you're maxing nuclear I think)
neon wraith
nah i need to max it...
loud heron
Why cant our endgame just be about SIMPLIFYING stuff
neon wraith
the math on how much power i need it unreal
to 100% all resources...
soooo many refineries... soo many
bleak coral
I am curious what resources are saved with using fertile uranium compared to another setup making equal power, because it cuts down on the number of uranium fuel rods so it could have some unexpected savings
frosty owl
If I remember right, mostly silica and sulfur
Oh, and quartz and quickwire too (some are mentioned in the text wall above)
signal nimbus
...I'm looking at max resources too, actually. Iron, Copper, Quickwire, and Aluminum are easy to quantify. Steel is as well, but pick your recipe. Quartz needs to be split between two, and oil gets split so many ways it's not even funny.
bleak coral
were those totals for just the plutonium side, or total resources for everything?
bleak coral
I do agree that in general fertile should be avoided, unless you specifically need the resource savings and don't need the extra power
frosty owl
...I'm looking at max resources too, actually. Iron, Copper, Quickwire, and Alum...
I think you can treat oil as the "lubricant of production", chucking it in whenever you want to boost production or save on some other resources. It's hard to finish it nowdays, unless you use it for turbofuel too
neon wraith
and 224 reactors for the plutonium rods.....
so you can do 476 reactors....
so 22x22 reactors in a nice square lol
frosty owl
were those totals for just the plutonium side, or total resources for everything...
The savings are divided between both sides
Less silica, sulfur and quickwire since yoh make fewer uranium rods
On the plutonium side, things are more complicated... A bit more bauxite, but less nitrogen and silica overall I think (the silica and sulfur savings are pretty big)
bleak coral
So I guess if you don't need the power, but you really need the silica it sounds appealing
neon wraith
i wish someone had the spreadsheet done already
bleak coral
sulfur doesn't have that many uses, so saving it on one of it's main jobs seems pointless
neon wraith
i use sulfur for batteries
bleak coral
like even max plutorium only uses half the map's sulfur
neon wraith
since i use a lot of drones.... but you don't need to make a whole lot of them honestly
frosty owl
So I guess if you don't need the power, but you really need the silica it sounds...
I THINK it makes little sense to use it unless you're NOT maxing out juclear though
After all it gives less total power BUT the highest amount of plutonium waste :man_shrugging:
bleak coral
nuclear already leaves plenty of sulfur for other uses
frosty owl
Say that to anyone who hasn't deleted his turbofuel setup 
bleak coral
I could see it in a max points solve that might want to steal the quartz and quickwire away for more points, because max points doesn't want max power but only barely enough power
but that's beyond me to analyze that
frosty owl
I could see it in a max points solve that might want to steal the quartz and qui...
That's a good point
oblique hollow
underclock everything to 1 %
bleak coral
the galaxy brain move
neon wraith
ok placed 10 nuclear reactors down, 467 to go lol
oblique hollow
50
neon wraith
nope did the math
oblique hollow
50 / 0.2
sand garnet
It sounds wrong but i dunno why
bleak coral
it is kinda a weird number, but it's right
oblique hollow
that seems overly excessive and sounds like nuclear waste troubles to me
neon wraith
50.4 nuclea rods a min, reactors burn .2 a min so that's 50.4/.2 = 252 reactors
sand garnet
@wind spade whats the current max power/ reactors ?
bleak coral
it's only 224 waste per minute, that's still an hour and half per ISC
neon wraith
for platinium its 22.4 Rods per min, but they burn .1 per min so 224 reactors
muted crypt
how much sulfur does that use, Daphonic?
neon wraith
a METRIC fuck ton?
oblique hollow
probably less than 6840
bleak coral
half of the maps
muted crypt
I was hoping for a ballpark guess
bleak coral
about 3000
neon wraith
i think it only uses half the sulfar
oblique hollow
because nuclear already uses less than half
muted crypt
oh that's not bad
because like the turbofuel plant I set up uses 1800, if I did max nuclear too I'd still have plenty of sulfur for batteries for drones AND nobelisks/cartridges
oblique hollow
i here thinking how big your factory would need to be to max that out
wind spade
<@242004363730616322> whats the current max power/ reactors ?
no idea tbh
neon wraith
i plan on 4 super factories
oblique hollow
1.192 TW. huh
neon wraith
the issue is each Mine will need multi refiners for the pure ore
bleak coral
@fresh elm you want to give your perspective on max nuclear? since you've done it before
oblique hollow
i feel like object limit is gonna smack you in the face
sand garnet
Your tool can calculate this, or nah?
neon wraith
i do everything on a spreadsheet, as the calc site dies if i try to
bleak coral
it can't calculate waste, but you can do the step manually and add it yourself
hazy garden
tries to remember someones spreadsheet about the fuel recipes and some green and yellow and red for how good a certain combo is
muted crypt
Klep did max nuclear but it was in U3
oblique hollow
_tries to remember someones spreadsheet about the fuel recipes and some green an...
didnt do that for nuclear xd
neon wraith
the amount of water pipes > <
bleak coral
i do everything on a spreadsheet, as the calc site dies if i try to
use https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/, it can handle bigger builds than satiscalc cause it doesn't do logistics just machine counts
neon wraith
thank you for the site
muted crypt
rn all I have for recipe analysis for nuclear is just a spreadsheet listing off the recipes xd
oblique hollow
i should do nuclear analysis tbh
bleak coral
oops mistyped the url, try again 😛
hazy garden
didnt do that for nuclear xd
ah, that wasn't in relation to any dialogue in chat, thats literally just me remembering pretty colors and spreadsheet images, cause right now I am trying, and failing, to find an elegant solution to making computers with what alternates I got
neon wraith
oblique hollow
like this?
hazy garden
yep, literally that
neon wraith
Slowly building out, but all nuclear will be middle right
oblique hollow
yeah, thats mine xd
hazy garden
but, well, not, the one with plastics and rubbers
hazy garden
oh, then maybe I had a wet dream that you did
oblique hollow
but plastic and rubber is something else
though thats a good point too.
i feel like recycled still wins tho
hazy garden
I am not going to pretend to understand what that means, but maybe it means recycled plastic, recycled rubber?
hazy garden
what I've got:
with some alternates that I haven't actually checked in production recipes
oblique hollow
but i should make an analysis for that too.
Recycled Plastic vs Residual
hazy garden
need to put in steamed sheets, uno momento
oblique hollow
what I've got:
residual fuel is quite possible one of the worst recipes, next to oil to fuel
hazy garden
yanking it out right now, thanks!
oblique hollow
diluted is really the better choice
frosty owl
residual fuel is quite possible one of the worst recipes, next to oil to fuel
It's early game stuff xD
oblique hollow
then again, i should analyse all plastic / rubber routes
i know i know
but surprisingly, some normal recipes are quite ok
compared to some alts
see: normal aluminum
frosty owl
See: normal water 
oblique hollow
not the best, but certainly not the worst
oblique hollow
See: normal water <:why_so_snutt:688344255504187412>
diluted water when xd
frosty owl
Btw, did you hear about how you can actually max allu production with silica and still have enough left over for max nuclear and tons of space elevator parts? ^^
I had to rub my eyes when I noticed on greeny's
hazy garden
oh right, I've got diluted fuel now
oblique hollow
btw did you hear about how you can actually max alu production with sulfur and still have enough left over for max nuclear?
frosty owl
You mean the instant scrap thing?
oblique hollow
ye
hazy garden
holy moly my crude oil usage plummeted
deep root
Wait... Using silica or not using it? Lol
frosty owl
ye
Eh... I'm not sure I'd implement that... I think Imma need too many batteries between space elevator and drones
oblique hollow
with silica, without it just becomes a worse default route
deep root
I'm confused, you both said the same thing but with a different raw product lol
oblique hollow
i was mocking him xd
frosty owl
The silica is used to make the ingots, the sulfur to make the scraps
deep root
Yeah that much I got... Wasn't sure which one was serious
I'm going to have to start using silica now
frosty owl
I was 😅
deep root
I was avoiding it because of nuclear... Never did the math
frosty owl
Well, with how much silica it takes its no wonder
I was honestly surprised it left enough quartz for all my "max production" plans
Including nuclear ofc
oblique hollow
cheap silica ftw i guess?
frosty owl
That's a must
hard axle
8886088364
fucking idiot tech scammer
frosty owl
And pure crystals for the ~1k quartz that go into radio control units or whatever in my plan
oblique hollow
oh right pure exists too
frosty owl
You need so little of that it's easy to forget 🤣
But other than nuclear you can replace silica in nearly all recipes, so... There's wiggle room
bleak coral
I can't wait until greeny's calc does point solves, and destorys all our expectations of resources needed for max points
oblique hollow
you CAN cut silica out from Nuclear
loud heron
I cant wait until greeny's calc builds our factories for us
oblique hollow
with the fertile uranium alt
loud heron
Wanna wake up and see a fully constructed heavy modular frame factory in a box
oblique hollow
buuuut thats more uranium expensive
bleak coral
but extra rods making extra power doesn't get you extra points
frosty owl
buuuut thats more uranium expensive
Fertile uranium is for plutonium 🤦♂️ 😆
bleak coral
and plutonium is nuclear
oblique hollow
and? you dont need silica anywhere else
you could use the infused recipe, sure
buuut thats also an alt
so, technically, you dont need silica ANYWHERE
frosty owl
Well yes...but I was referring to sensible ways to not use silica
frosty owl
and plutonium is nuclear
For some reason, I keep forgetting "nuclear" doesn't mean "uranium nuclear" 🤦♂️
bleak coral
yeah I always have to double check when I'm writing about nuclear stuff whether I'm being ambiguous or not and whether that's fine, can get confusing
saying waste gets me a lot, especially on the wiki, cause it can be confusing if you don't specify which waste depending on the contex
muted crypt
does max nuclear use all of the uranium waste so that the only waste you produce is plutonium waste, or is any left behind?
bleak coral
yes
muted crypt
nice
loud heron
Now to wait for diluted plutonium waste
I might have asked this already
But at what threshold do you guys usually ship your products by trains or air instead of long range conveyer
Dunno if I should ship casings and plates of aluminum, or if i should ship all aluminum end-products like fused frames and stuff
muted crypt
if it's at the point where drones or trains are available to me, and I have to make a belt that travels more than 100 meters outside of the actual processing area, I'm using a drone or train.
loud heron
101m long train track lol
muted crypt
you get my point >.>
loud heron
if it's at the point where drones or trains are available to me, and I have to m...
I meant more like should I ship the basic aluminum back to main base and make stuff there or make fused frames, turbo motors, and the like at said aluminum base
and ship that by air
muted crypt
my design policies for my world probably vary vastly from yours
loud heron
Still good to get insight
lunar jolt
it does safe transport-capacity and space at your base, but if you want to modify the production or something else happens you have to travel to the aluminium
muted crypt
the way I plan to do things is any finished products travel by drone to my hub, and any intermediate transport takes place via train.
loud heron
Lastly
Whats your favorite place to setup nukes?
Im assuming everyones favorite is probably off a cliff next to water
oblique hollow
near water, near uranium
loud heron
I meant on a map
oblique hollow
preferably though near water
loud heron
a SCIM picture would be nice
oblique hollow
literally anywhere where there is enough water for your NPPs
if you plan 100, you might wanna go to the east coast
loud heron
Im expecting yall dont gather all the uranium onto a train do you
oblique hollow
convert to rods, then train it around
muted crypt
Whats your favorite place to setup nukes?
I've actually never built nuclear o-o
I plan to now, for the first time
oblique hollow
shame on you, i actually have one whole NPP 
loud heron
Same
oblique hollow
i just built it on the grass fields. i get my water from one of the nearby resource wells and the uranium is from the long cave near there
loud heron
Why build rods first? Im just scared of a nuclear train driving around lol
oblique hollow
its simply more compact
loud heron
god I wish we had more body slots
oblique hollow
and you shouldnt be scared of the radiation unless you have a FULL freight car
loud heron
Wear Bladerunners, hazmat suits, and a jetpack all at once
oblique hollow
because otherwise, single items are very weakly radioactive
so weak i can walk around near my nuclear power plant factory without a suit most of the time
except near the blenders and the plant itself.... those are full xd
bleak coral
plus there's always drones to keep the radiation above everything
oblique hollow
or factory cart 
loud heron
Cybertruck
bleak coral
just thousands and thousands of factory carts 
loud heron
I can already see my FPS dropping
having like 62 dedicated threads for an army of ficsit carts
mystic moon
How many beams do you want?
swift portal
if I select 375 screws, which is half of 3 bolted plate assemblers, I get 7.212 beams
I don't care about beams beyond wanting a round number, I'm trying to feed 3 bolted plate assemblers
mystic moon
Why do you need a round number?
swift portal
Just for my OCD
mystic moon
Then you won't get a round # of screws
muted crypt
unfortunately you won't have round recipes until you get to high ratios
swift portal
Lame.
loud heron
God I hate how drones cant just charge from the power grid
muted crypt
speaking of drones
I plan to set up a battery factory at some point and I'm curious which is considered better, normal or classic recipe
loud heron
Classic
its so much simpler to have 4 conveyer belts that leech off existing material production
than to ship fucking sulfur and aluminum water
muted crypt
oh shit you right
umbral harbor
God I hate how drones cant just charge from the power grid
Y'know
That sounds like a pretty good mod idea
loud heron
I mean all balance changes would be nice as a mod
But specifically eating batteries is goddamn annoying as the original system
Id much rather they have a battery like Power Storages and they use A BUNCH of MW
We already make a fuckload of power surplus by nuclear arrays
umbral harbor
It'd be nice to choose between those options at least.
I haven't gotten to drones, but supplying then with batteries is a common complaint. I haven't thought up a great solution other than having a battery train line. Which, y'know, kinda defeats the purpose.
I suppose if you used it to supply one side of the map where the ports are it'd kinda work, but still.
Or maybe a truck
signal nimbus
"Ficsit does not waste."
Also:
"We throw away rechargeable batteries after one use."
umbral harbor
A battery charger would be a neat building.
signal nimbus
You want to make it interesting? Make batteries like the fluid containers. Have the drones eject them when they're used, then you have to recharge them.
umbral harbor
Look at that, we had similar ideas
signal nimbus
XD Yep.
loud acorn
Battery charging would be a good idea
signal nimbus
It also offers another option to store up power if you add a discharger to put the energy back into the grid. Say drones don't use all the electricity. Now you can recycle it.
umbral harbor
What would be the balance there? What's the give and take for having the ability to charge batteries vs making them
signal nimbus
Power draw. Say each battery stores 1 kWh. They require 1 kWh to charge, then some more to run the recharger.
peak basalt
Id be ok with that if the battery went bad after 10 uses. So you would still have to make them, but a slower pace.
But they'd have to change a lot to even be able to recharge them. I can see a lot of different things that would be a better use of time.
signal nimbus
That... sounds hard to code. You'd need to remember the number of times each individual item has been charged.
Out of... tens of thousands.
But... the energy cost for the machine can be high, the machine itself can be large and slow, so you'd need a whole factory for them... there's easier ways to do it.
umbral harbor
I mean I feel like it'd definitely be easier to implement battery charging since they already worked it out for the power storage system.
Apply that to batteries, and you're most of the way there.
signal nimbus
Heck, even a small machine with low power draw that takes a full minute to charge a single battery would need to be built in the hundreds.
umbral harbor
A super simple solution would be that once a battery is spent, a new item called Dead Battery is created. Run it through a "charger" and it acts like a constructor and just makes it back into a battery.
signal nimbus
Mhm. Of course, each drone would then become a production machine.
I could see it coded to the platforms, though.
wind spade
the Pythagoras theorem is: a^2+b^2=c^2
sure but how is that relevant to satisfactory?
wind spade
it's still not relevant to satisfactory tho 
signal nimbus
Ah, the wild troll in their natural habitat.
radiant sandal
im gonna do a whole math lesson
wind spade
yeah but please do in proper channel - #off-topic-general
radiant sandal
ugh fine
signal nimbus
They're new. No access yet.
And I don't think it would be appreciated there either.
dry wave
So, I'm noticing kibitz doesn't put platforms out for his train tracks. I like having the tracks in a grid formation, but would having platforms everywhere slow the game down enough to worry about?
signal nimbus
They add to the build limit, so not having them is more optimized than having them. Plus I think he just likes the style.
signal nimbus
No idea, but he hit it before he hit nuclear.
dry wave
I guess if I hit the limit, I can just go through and delete all the platforms under the tracks
peak basalt
Everything you build has a number of objects(code wise) that make it work. There is a limit to how many of those objects the graphics engine can handle. Its a very high number, but is reachable.
dry wave
I know about the build limit, I just forgot what number it actually was
signal nimbus
Honestly doesn't matter, since we can't count those objects anyway.
dry wave
I'm probably fine. I'm not building pretty. Just building efficiently to hopefully get 100/m rockets
peak basalt
Its not x buildings, cuz everything building has a different amount of objects.
muted crypt
I'm probably fine. I'm not building pretty. Just building efficiently to hopeful...
100/m what? this isn't factorio
oh wait
don't look at me I'm a clown
bleak coral
people still thinking oil is a precious baby that shouldn't be used (from a recent wiki edit):
Heat Exchanger: Bauxite per item near equivalent, but replaces Copper with Oil, which would hurt late-game efficiency.
What are y'all saving oil for? Making piles of plastic to go nowhere?
loud heron
Oil is super plentiful
Its just really awkward to get around
cause its all in like 5 corners of the map
signal nimbus
So... I just now came up with a potential way to 100% efficiently distribute materials to a factory with a lot of weird numbers. Load balancers from Factorio with Industrial Storage Containers. If the machines are the right ratio, it'll work to keep the overflows perfect to the first set.
muted crypt
you can also just manifold it
just so long as the total consumption is no higher than what is being fed in, manifolding will work
fierce ruin
grow up and be a MANifold
muted crypt
it's perfect balancing with a warmup time
signal nimbus
I could... but see I went through all the trouble to get the ratios nice so that 10 machines feed 10 machines all down the nuclear line.
Sometimes it's more like 5 to 10 or 10 to 5, but when the machines load balance themselves, why manifold?
muted crypt
because it's easy
signal nimbus
Easier than a straight belt from the exit of one machine to the entrance of the next?
fierce ruin
if it matches yes
signal nimbus
Was gonna say, bit slow on the draw XD. And I use/preach manifolds all the time, I just... saw that I could make it match so why not?
fierce ruin
some poeple do 1:1:1 DPF loops
signal nimbus
DPF?
fierce ruin
Diluted packaged fuel
signal nimbus
Ah... yeah, it's the same concept, but for base materials.
Handles buffering trains, too.
bleak coral
How are the ISCs involved?
fierce ruin
ISCs just act like overflow splitters irrc
bleak coral
Unstable overflow spliter that randomly chooses the primary output when loading a save.
fierce ruin
odd
bleak coral
Yeah it's not good to rely on both outputs unless they're going to the same place or it doesn't really matter if it's stable/reliable
deep root
Oh goodness...What's the "best" Uranium fuel rod path?
frosty owl
I rely on both outputs, but that is because I usually use them followed by a small balancer to unload stuff from freight stations (Eg, feed 480/min with one output, 420 with the other)
frosty owl
Oh goodness...What's the "best" Uranium fuel rod path?
The one that gives the most fuel rods per uranium is the the alt path
frosty owl
There's just one alt for each step of the chain
frosty owl
And correspond to the only 2 steps you need to process the uranium xD
muted crypt
Like all alts for plut and all alts for uranium?
frosty owl
if you want max nuclear which recipes do you use?
Is this a generic question or directed at Soransis?
deep root
And correspond to the only 2 steps you need to process the uranium xD
Yeah, for some reason I thought for a minute the other recipes in the chain matter...they don't
muted crypt
generic
deep root
Wow...Only 2268 quartz used
frosty owl
See this @muted crypt
Some numbers changed (mostly in resources due to balancing), but the points still stand
muted crypt
Hmm ok
frosty owl
If you want just the TLDR just say so~
muted crypt
And to clarify that max nuclear uses up all the uranium waste, yes?
frosty owl
None of the methods I ever talk about considered leaving any uranium waste behind 👍
bleak coral
I don't believe there's any scenario where it's beneficial to not turn all the waste into plutonium
frosty owl
so basically the net output of plutonium waste is how much per minute?
Depends on which alts you use to make plutonium rods. Max Plutonium having the highest output, no alts the smaller (I think 40ish rods Vs 15ish)
bleak coral
I rely on both outputs, but that is because I usually use them followed by a sma...
right that too, you can fix it with a balancer
frosty owl
I don't believe there's any scenario where it's beneficial to not turn all the w...
I've yet to find someone who found a reason to and totally can't think of one myself 😆
bleak coral
I've yet to find someone who found a reason to and totally can't think of one my...
if you fucked up your fertile uranium calculations maybe?
muted crypt
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I'm not 100% sure yet if I'd run the plutonium rods into more reactors or if I'd sink them. Would it be worth building for max nuclear and sinking them until I decide I want to accept plutonium waste?
frosty owl
right that too, you can fix it with a balancer
Though unloading train stations is a bit of a special case, since your input is either 780x2 or 0, no in-between situation where the storage can choose which output to prioritize (There's always stuff to be pushed out of both or none at all)
muted crypt
That way I don't have to rebuild everything if I decide to change it down the line and instead just build a little bit?
frosty owl
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I'm not 100% sure yet if I'd run the plutonium rods into more reac...
Better than stockpiling nuclear waste
bleak coral
yeah the smart move is to build the power plants, and then sink the plutonium rods until you sink them
bleak coral
typos oops, you know what I mean 😛
*until you need them
I'd keep a storage container full of the rods though to make the startup quicker
swift portal
Did they nerf the jump pads?
bleak coral
no
muted crypt
What I'm not 100% sure on is if I should make this factory now so I have the power buffer already or just start building other factories I had planned and come back to nuclear when it's needed..
frosty owl
I'd keep a storage container full of the rods though to make the startup quicker
Me, with balanced feed for all nuclear: please tell me more about quick startups 🧐
muted crypt
I have 124 GW total right now for my power, using about 17.5 ish.. and I saw max nuclear uses roughly 48 to sustain itself, buuut I'm not automating some of the needed parts
frosty owl
Power should have priority unless you know you won't need all of it
muted crypt
looking at this image again from my planning (thanks again to both of you for the opinions on it lmao)
frosty owl
I mean, it'd be a pain to start setting up the nuclear plant to find you lack something
muted crypt
Yeah, I lack quite a few things here
I'm not automating fused frames, control rods, supercomputers, radio control units, cooling systems, heat sinks, turbo motors, or iodine filters at the moment...
frosty owl
I don't mean "lack" as in "don't make enough yet" but as in "I'm already making all of that I can make, but consuming too much of it in other processes"
muted crypt
I mean tbf I'm also not automating beacons, rifle cartridges or portable miners, nor am I automating any space elevator parts, but.. one thing at a time.
frosty owl
Cause that's a REAL F
muted crypt
I still really like how these lists turned out tbh
frosty owl
I mean tbf I'm also not automating beacons, rifle cartridges or portable miners,...
I've yet to graduate my beacon production from storage College
And yes, they are used for nuclear already
muted crypt
Gonna end up with ten main locations throughout my world if things go how I'd like them to go:
- central storage hub
- turbofuel power plant (finished)
- nuclear power plant
- battery production (for drone transport between hub and production factories)
- structural integrity themed parts
- logistics themed parts
- electronics themed parts
- mechanics themed parts
- equipment themed parts
- space elevator parts
The fun part will be making sure I can save enough of each resource for processing so I don't use too much in one spot and prevent another factory from reaching the goal output
This is the first time since I started playing this game that I'm trying to scale up quite large in my building..
Hell, my turbofuel plant might end up rebuilt in the future if I decide not to keep the open air factory feel to it.
Which will make me sad, but ✨ aesthetics ✨
frosty owl
The fun part will be making sure I can save enough of each resource for processi...
Aren't you using the planner to make sure of that?
muted crypt
I mean yes but weaving them all together will be hell
frosty owl
Which will make me sad, but ✨ aesthetics ✨
Just leave a copy of the save somewhere, it won't accumulate dust ;)
muted crypt
I'll probably use one central sftools plan to make sure I don't go over any world limits on resources
Then separate them into different tabs for the different categories
frosty owl
Can't you just input all your production on greeny's?
muted crypt
That's what I'm going to do
But if I look at the logic planning from his calculator for several different subfactories all at once I'll just end up getting overwhelmed and stop playing
So again just to make sure I don't go over any resource limits I'm going to combine it all in one planner tab, and then separate each subfactory into their own tabs after once I get all the numbers right
fierce ruin
did someone say logic planning...
frosty owl
What screenshot?
muted crypt
the one that was deleted
frosty owl
I don't see it
muted crypt
that's because it was deleted
frosty owl
You can't prove it though
deep root
@topaz hedge random thought... Have you tried using slower belts in your tests of mk5 belts and splitters? I mean, seeing the miners to 270 and using mk3 for example
loud heron
Caterium is a rare resource they say
Should use it carefully they say
Now Im making 1200 and naught to do with it
wind spade
also why do you make it if you have nothing to do with it?
gilded maple
looking at this image again from my planning (thanks again to both of you for th...
Isn’t there a 4th type of modular frame?
wind spade
Isn’t there a 4th type of modular frame?
there are only 3 (modular, heavy modular, fused modular)
strong whale
there are only 3 (modular, heavy modular, fused modular)
pressure conversion cube is prob what they meant (doesnt REALLY count but it kinda does)
glacial hemlock
Radio control unit has the icon of modular frame before release. And pressure cube and quantum computer both look similar to frames too
red scroll
What is the best material cost/production rate choice is it for Turbo Fuel?
I made a compacted coal loadout for it, but the new choice did intrigue me
It makes 45/min compared to the 30/min with compacted coal
But material wise does it use more oil than the compacted coal loadout?
wind spade
What is the best material cost/production rate choice is it for Turbo Fuel?
alt: heavy oil residue -> alt: diluted fuel -> normal turbofuel
red scroll
It is a sulfur heavy build, I've made the calculations regarding my build. I am currently taking in 2400 Oil and turning them to 3200 Heavy Oil Residue. By calculating the next steps I would need to mine all the sulfur in the map to do that. Option isn't that bad but it's really taxing on the infrastructure.
What about the new recipe? Has anyone made calculations with that?
Namely: Turbo Blend Fuel
cold light
alt: heavy oil residue -> alt: diluted fuel -> normal turbofuel
any point to underclock generator now or 100% is alright?
wind spade
any point to underclock generator now or 100% is alright?
there was never a point to underclock a generator
wind spade
Namely: Turbo Blend Fuel
it's shit
oblique hollow
yes, can confirm, 100% garbage.
Use Turbo Heavy Fuel instead
oblique hollow
alt: heavy oil residue -> alt: diluted fuel -> normal turbofuel
wait are you actually being serious here
because the blend fuel is actually better than the normal recipe
red scroll
I am trying to make calculations right now, so far I've found out that Heavy Oil can be converted to Turbo Fuel with %84 efficiency
oblique hollow
how to read: columns have different colors. green is most resource efficient of the given column
row is usage of resource per recipe combination
this is really just heavy oil alt plus diluted, and then its blend fuel vs normal turbo recipe.
save sulfur or save oil
wind spade
wait are you actually being serious here
oh mb I thought we're talking about the turbo heavy fuel
oblique hollow
Surprisingly theres a worse recipe than heavy
wind spade
I can't remember recipe names lol
oblique hollow
for oil usage at least
i basically just used your site to calculate a lot of routes then i wrote down the numbers and compared
i did the same for aluminum. And i guess ill do plastic / rubber next
wind spade
I just remembered that there was a shit alt for turbofuel
but I forgot there was also a good alt for turbofuel xD
oblique hollow
shame
if heavy used less coal and sulfur, id would actually be not as bad
it would be a sorta "meh" option
buuuut as of now its actually garbage in that regard
frosty owl
Interestingly, turbo blend ALSO uses less HOR per TF...
But then ups the oil usage adding fuel and coke :hehe:
oblique hollow
the decrease of coal to 0 and increase of oil for coke is a really strong game
red scroll
TL DR: Turbo Blend recipe can produce about the same amount of Turbo Fuel as the Oil the system gets in itself
red scroll
I've started with a 100 Fuel input Blend recipe, then made the system use one more H.O.R for the Fuel in the next step
Oh, well Water is everywhere anyways
So I didn't bother to add that in lol
red scroll
I've started with a 100 Fuel input Blend recipe, then made the system use one mo...
Then I've found the declination rate of HOR per fuel increase 😄
If I were to implement this to my 2400 Oil input W.I.P factory, then I would need these separately after turning all that 2400 to 3200 H.O.R
- 1072 Fuel (Dilluted) + 2144 Water
- 2144 H.O.R
- 1608 Petroleoum Coke and Sulfur
iron smelt
@oblique hollow the loop is working btw .. it was important to fill complete up and let all machines get filled competely (stop the output of the machines .. not the machines itself with power cut)
at the beginning, the input flowrate is inconsistant but after a while it is at max
and after the fillrate is then zero (all pipes and machines are complete full) then i needed to free up the output so all machines can start
since i have done that, no starving so far
frosty owl
<@!597386533691064342> the loop is working btw .. it was important to fill compl...
And that is why I always suggest to have 1/2 buffers to help filling up your pipeworks AND machines at max speed :)
I usually go for a buffer every 450/min fluid or even 300/min if I want real speed
The size of the buffer depends on the size of the pipework that needs filling and the number of machines to be filled ofc
iron smelt
which is better?
Turbofuel with diluted fuel before
oblique hollow
<@!597386533691064342> the loop is working btw .. it was important to fill compl...
thats usually the case, yes. sorry if i forgot to add that
oblique hollow
ok. so is it heavy. or diluted turbo?#
heavy is horrible
iron smelt
the power cut was the issue
the problem is with power cut, that the machines are not filled up if they have no power
oblique hollow
Vencam stop misleading people 
frosty owl
Say wha?
oblique hollow
the problem is with power cut, that the machines are not filled up if they have ...
afaik only gens can fill up if they have no power
which makes sense for them
iron smelt
yep
iron smelt
i tried it the whole time with power the refineries down after some tests yesterday. and then i just stopped the output instead of power cut .. and voila .. no starvation
stray moon
solid amount?
oblique hollow
now that the most stressful times for me are over, i think ill finally find time to continue working on my new Pipe Manual
oblique hollow
solid amount?
500 seems solid
stray moon
only reason im not making more turbo is because of coal
frosty owl
You reacted to Heavy Turbo with Thumbs Up, time to perish <:sf_xeno_basher:60199...
Well... It makes more/min 😅
||I totally didn't get confused in alts||
oblique hollow
smh
stray moon
hoow many gens could i fuel with the turbo and fuel?
grand violet
tried my best with the english but even when using a script I have brainlag
muted crypt
while it applies nicely to the topics here it probably should be dropped in #streams-and-videos and then message linked to us here, but that's just my opinion
stray moon
should i just sinc all of this?
magic shadow
you can make lots of plastic and rubber from that
stray moon
im already making an additional 100 plastic and 115 rubber. ontop of what im making for everything else
stray moon
i know. i only have mk4 belts
im processing all the ores in the starter biome and the oil from the islands in the middle left of the map.
vernal patio
gentlemen, am i reading this right, there is no downside to overclocking fuel gens?
slugs permitting, admittedly.
fierce ruin
there is no benefit besides lowering building count
wind spade
however ratios become weird
vernal patio
understood, thanks.
royal eagle
What does one need to overclock a fuel gen to for it to consume 15 fuel p/min?
wind spade
What does one need to overclock a fuel gen to for it to consume 15 fuel p/min?
you can't
at least not that exact
sand garnet
why would you want to?
royal eagle
Because I am producing 90 fuel per min and I would like to have each consume an easy number
fierce ruin
approx~~ 133.654324999 ~~although there is no benefit besides lowering building count
also clocking only has so much accuracy
royal eagle
Then is there a way that one can underclock each to 10 per min?
loud heron
Honestly just make enough fuel reactors so that one just turns on and off lol
fierce ruin
which is much easier
loud heron
This is too much work for perfect efficiency.
royal eagle
Ok, thanks for the help
abstract thorn
is anyone here good complicated optimization problems?
abstract thorn
I want to figure out the ideal numbers for utilization of all resources on the map for a silo'd/modular base setup utilizing drones for transporting to in the end make either comparable late game items (super computers, cooling systems, turbo motors, etc) or have these items utilize similar amounts of resources while also putting every type of resource into storage at some rate.
But I also need to account for battery consumption in this
fierce ruin
you can use https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production
abstract thorn
Is it that complex of a tool?
abstract thorn
Waht I mean is, is it powerful enough to do what I want
fierce ruin
it determines the most "cost-effective" route to n products
you do have to account for power too
abstract thorn
Yeah I'm aware
fierce ruin
power as in raw resources
bleak coral
the tool isn't going to solve your problem for you, no tool can account for every possible desirable solve
they can only solve production chains for given parameters
fierce ruin
2^(all recipes in game) complexity and all
abstract thorn
There should be a way to graph an optimization problem for this (calculus) but I haven't done calculus in 8 years
and definitely nothing as complex as this
oblique hollow
graph?
fierce ruin
greeny uses linear optization
abstract thorn
Which is why I wasn't asking for a tool
oblique hollow
greeny does graphs
bleak coral
I mean what's the end solve you're going for? Equal resource usage? Equal end production throughput? Most resource sink points?
fierce ruin
greeny uses linear optization
it calculates cost and finds the extremes
oblique hollow
also, it is that complicated
linear programming is a math tool for finding optimal solutions to multiple inputs with linear relationships
best case is you end up with matrices
fierce ruin
nerd
abstract thorn
thanks yall!
fierce ruin
tfw you want to see the network graph for what it takes to make 10 plutonium fuel rods a second, but the factory planner has been running overnight and it still hasn't loaded
bleak coral
yeah satisfactory-calculator doesn't scale well, cause it's trying to figure out all the logistics too
if all you want is machine count satisfactory tools works faster, but it doesn't give you all the charts calc does if that's what you're after
wind spade
I want to figure out the ideal numbers for utilization of all resources on the m...
as others pointed out, my tool does all the optimisation using linear programming methods, if you want to know more, feel free to DM me, but the basics have been said here already
granite jasper
10 Plutonium Fuel Rods per SECOND? or per minute?
fierce ruin
most likely per min since that's what used for the calculator by default
it'd be 600/min = 10/s
muted crypt
The entire game runs off of per-minute rates
granite jasper
The person said they are waiting on the calculator to demonstrate 10 per second...
fierce ruin
laughs in SPF
muted crypt
The person said they are waiting on the calculator to demonstrate 10 per second....
that just sounds like a simple [output] / 60 calculation
granite jasper
An impossible calculation
bleak coral
The person said they are waiting on the calculator to demonstrate 10 per second....
usually when people say per second here they mean per minute and it's just a typo or they're used to a game that uses per second or something
granite jasper
Hence my question if that is what they meant
Asking the calculator to do per second would explain why it is taking so long
muted crypt
I can understand if someone comes from factorio that they'd want a per-second rate
sand garnet
per second isnt possible afaik
muted crypt
but we don't do that here
per second for plut rods isn't, no.. seeing as we're limited to 22.4/min I think with max nuclear but I could be wrong? idk
bleak coral
our lines are too slow for per second for everything, only a few items would that work for
muted crypt
can't even do 30 screws per second, sad
bleak coral
I mean our fastest belt is only 13 per second
dusty crow
doing new save file for new update, where do I start?
..i feel like my current save corrupted anyway
muted crypt
anyone who's played more than once might tell you northern forest so you can get to the endgame faster by having access to higher-purity nodes from the start
but ultimately it's up to you because the map stays the same, they just added a few resource wells in otherwise-empty spots
bleak coral
I feel like any place that's not grasslands is nicer for someone who already knows how to play
dusty crow
so the forest
muted crypt
also hi Omi, haven't talked to you in a bit 👋
bleak coral
north forest has the easiest quartz
muted crypt
Spiders aren't really common in the northern forest, but the titan forest they like
dusty crow
well I hope I dont get spidered
muted crypt
which is just south of the northern forest
dusty crow
and I know northern forest is near that really good coal power grid set up
muted crypt
yeee
bleak coral
north forest is that area just to the SE of the big by in the north, but not the red forest
dusty crow
where the coal deposits are
bleak coral
sorry, east not west
dusty crow
and if you keep running you find the desert start area?
bleak coral
it's very close to that desert canyon yes
dusty crow
very familiar with that area, good
muted crypt
northern forest is kinda crazy honestly
bleak coral
yeah that green area is where it starts ya
muted crypt
look at all that super close together
muted crypt
ideally when you first start you'd wanna go to the area where there's those 4 pure iron nodes
the copper is close to it, as is a limestone node
dusty crow
where am I on the map?
muted crypt
perfect for getting started
fierce ruin
northern forrest
muted crypt
one sec!
dusty crow
and which direction do I run
wicked tinsel
satisfactory is vastly smaller scale than factorio, minutes just make it look better here 👍
dusty crow
im glad drones exist. same level of hype as when drones were added to slime rancher though.
but alas different game, so.. :P
muted crypt
satisfactory is vastly smaller scale than factorio, minutes just make it look be...
well factorio is also procedurally generated and a flat area
wicked tinsel
nah, as in, factory scale
fierce ruin
well factorio is also procedurally generated and a flat area
laughs in mountians
wicked tinsel
things get super massive in factorio, like milions of resources burned
muted crypt
can you send another screenshot of a different view, Omi?
wicked tinsel
here if it goes to tens of thousands that super massive
muted crypt
though chances are if you just follow the natural road west
dusty crow
muted crypt
you'll find it, it's near a wreck that's in a shallow pond
dusty crow
if it helps there is a green slug here
muted crypt
things get super massive in factorio, like milions of resources burned
yes but again the map is kinda bland unless you make it look good because it's just flat
oh yes actually one sec
you are at the right end of the line lol
follow the natural road for a while, once you see a crashed pod to your right (I circled it in blue) you'll know you're there
muted crypt
yeah just steer clear of them
they eventually despawn/respawn at their starting point if you get too far away from it
or, more specifically, they get too far away from it
dusty crow
ok now im lost
muted crypt
basically keep going west until you find desert
then backtrack a bit up the natural road
dusty crow
I know where im going
very distinct mountain, looks like it has jumping platforms on it
i call this "parkour mountain" anyways
muted crypt
yep
fierce ruin
right by doggo mountain
dusty crow
yup, found it
guess my first course of action is to get tier 1 and 2 done
which means make iron plates and go idle lol
...I don't have those organizers yet, do i
muted crypt
hm?
dusty crow
logistics
muted crypt
oh yeah you don't start with that
I usually rush down logistics, base building, chainsaw and logistics mk2
muted crypt
speed is subjective
dusty crow
also in that order or something?
muted crypt
I usually grab them in the order of base building -> logistics -> chainsaw -> logistics mk2
dusty crow
i did logistics so far
muted crypt
from there then I start setting up more permanent automation setups, or at least longer-term
sand garnet
you already built one
dusty crow
yes but how did i get the second one?
muted crypt
a common bug
you'll have to edit the hub part out of the player's inventory using SCIM
sand garnet
or just put it on the ground and forget about it
fierce ruin
or put it on the ground and delete it with SCIM
gusty nexus
i just dropped them from the inventory and built a big stack
that eventually disappeared for some reason
royal eagle
I just hide them in some thick foliage.
gilded maple
Place the hub part in the hub chest
muted crypt
it's like a kangaroo
loud heron
Place the hub part in the hub chest
Does this cause a stranded pointer error lol
gilded maple
Idk but it’ll be a hub in a hub so that’s cool, plus it’s a nice place to keep it
wind spade
Does this cause a stranded pointer error lol
doubt so, as hub item is different from hub building
loud heron
How DOES the game treat duplicate hubs
wind spade
doesn't let you build them
muted crypt
similar to how you can only build one elevator
loud heron
Can Satisfactory handle multiple factories in every biome?
So far Ive only colonized the dunes and part of the swamp below it for aluminum
But Im concerned if the game can hold up with just factories literally everywhere a resource node exists
But if Im gunna minmax these endgame parts I might have to consider it
wind spade
it handles them much better than if you'd had all the buildings in one place
loud heron
it handles them much better than if you'd had all the buildings in one place
Im guessing SF does some approximation algorithm when factories are out of render range
I doubt every single belt has every item on it calculated at all times
loud heron
Can our CPU handle having all these factories?
well, the average 8 core ryzen or whatever
wind spade
it has something like LOD, where the further away from a belt you are, the less "FPS" items on the belts have
so while they are calculated every tick, it only moves them e.g. every 5 ticks
loud heron
Does this properly interpolate to accurate factory math?
loud heron
I figured a game like this would be more CPU taxing
cause of how many belts and machines and stuff are everywhere
wind spade
computers are pretty fast with math 🤷♂️
loud heron
Not as fast when said math has to be interpreted as an item on a physical conveyer
even at slower ticks
wind spade
it's just moving a point on a spline
loud heron
So Im guessing if I had a 600/m item belt, instead of seeing 10 items pass a second, Id just see like 50 items pass every 5 seconds
wind spade
it doesn't have physics
loud heron
I suppose thats right, the items on the conveyers dont obey any physics other than just following the conveyer path
In any event, I guess Ill try making more factories elsewhere
wind spade
it definitely doesn't hurt
worst case the performance will be the same as if you built the new factory next to old one
best case you'll give less work to your GPU
since the new factory will be behind a cliff or something
loud heron
Oh no Im not worried bout the GPU
just concerned of multiplicatively increasing CPU usage
I dunno how close this game is to update ticking versus Oxygen Not included, where FPS slows down because all the machines and throughput cant process in a single update tick
cause blocking threads
wind spade
people built pretty big bases in SF, I'm just not sure if they were limited by GPU or CPU at that point. You'd have to ask them, my best save is like 10 hours long
frosty owl
I doubt every single belt has every item on it calculated at all times
There's some pretty good optimization on conveyors already (and more Bing made I think)
Currently, they don't render at all if out of view, so even placing walls/foundations around your belts can help performance a bit
And yes, most stuff far away isn't rendered, generally
loud heron
So I figured.
Im also slightly aware we have culling techniques for hiding stuff behind walls
as mentioned
bleak coral
As far as I know it's both GPU and CPU, since it needs to do all the logic and render the 10s of thousands of items
for example the belt stuff is a GPU limit, but moving between loading chunks is a CPU/memory limit
loud heron
Sounds right
fast urchin
I think large bases are way more CPU limited because even if I look into the air I only get like 10 fps
wind spade
I think it also depends on people's PCs, can't really give a generic statement like that lol
fast urchin
yes and no, but GPU limit can often be resolved by reducing graphics settings, while CPU limit cannot really be resolved
and I actually think the CPU limit is relevant for most cases ... except maybe if you have like a 5950x + a GTX 1050 (but why would you?)
quartz mason
Has someone an effective fuel generator factory schematic?
quartz mason
Greeny's tool?
loud heron
Here is my current (unfinished) design
The bottom left are a line of refineries making Heavy Oil Residue
They feed into another line of refineries in the middle left using packaged water (The big yellow As above)
bleak coral
yes and no, but GPU limit can often be resolved by reducing graphics settings, w...
only to a certain extent, rendering thousands of walls/foundations/belts/items is still demanding even if it's on the lowest settings
loud heron
And create diluted packaged fuel, which is immediately unpackaged (the packages get recycled back to the water pumps)
bleak coral
it's why spreading out helps vs making one megabase
loud heron
The fuel goes to a refinery line on the right, combined with compacted coal to make turbofuel
and that feeds all the green spider thingies that are fuel gens
Its a big system (and it can be shrunk with blenders) but it does a good amount of power
and I dont even have enough fuel gens to saturate all that fuel
topaz hedge
<@486264107746590722> random thought... Have you tried using slower belts in you...
I can reproduce the same kind of issue on mk4 belts as with mk5 and awesome sinks; miners backing up, and the belts feeding the manifold empty out afterawhile. The mk4 belts, that I've had a few issues with were on solid steel setups that we're pulling the full 480. I don't really consider maxing the lower tier belts to be an issue as much as mk5, because if you max a mk4 manifold, and it has issues, you can easily upgrade it.
topaz hedge
yes and no, but GPU limit can often be resolved by reducing graphics settings, w...
lowering graphics settings reduce the load on the cpu quite a bit and; in my experience, it was a significant dropping from ultra to medium.
as far as the 5950x and a 1050... well, sadly in these times, one can't necessarly be too picky about their gpu
topaz hedge
Has someone an effective fuel generator factory schematic?
Not sure what you mean by a schematic, I find scim quite hard to read as far as how things are built, but here's mine if you're looking for ideas... this setup is preupdate 4 (no blenders)
it's a packager -> diluted fuel -> packager with the loop (return belt) passing under the setup.
the belts/pipes to the left are the sulfur and coal feeds as well as crude oil, which splits off to each side. this is one side..
dry wave
Have you guys seen Amelie's spreadsheet? She's gonna make 400 Assembly Director Systems https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u_BZCF7-rEZEE46_BsqBhxR1vYUwjlLQv1LzirLynWg/edit#gid=1160035312
quartz ember
Amelie is going to cause a market crash
No no, shes gonna BE the market
keen flame
