math-and-meta

[muted crypt]

This is my turbofuel plant.

[marble coral]

I feel like 5 or 3 turbomtor min would be ideal, thats about what I know

[frosty owl]

Yeah, it can work

[muted crypt]

All I need to do is

• actually connect the machines up to cables for power
• connect oil to the system
• build generators

[frosty owl]

Looking clean 👍

[muted crypt]

But I've done what I can to make this look good.

[muted crypt]

Thank you

There are some messy clumps within the belts, and the pipes from fuel, because I needed to properly balance them for my setup

I had 3 pipes of 400 fuel I needed to make into 8 pipes of 150, as well as 3 belts of 600 sulfur and 3 belts of petroleum coke, both of which needed to become 8 separate belts of 225 each

[frosty owl]

Except I'm really annoyed by the rail segment below the 2 stations on the right smh

[muted crypt]

The rails are temporary

I plan to rework rail infrastructure in the future

But I needed power

[frosty owl]

Just poking fun since I saw the issue with short rail segment :P

[muted crypt]

I was riding about.. 200 MW below my capacity before I started this setup

Now thanks to the trains and sulfur miners being powered I'm more like 1.5 GW over

Oil hasn't even been hooked up yet

And none of these machines are on

I'm going to probably need to set up more coal power because the batteries won't be enough for this

[kind cliff]

just to know which programm you used to make the design?

[muted crypt]

Look in the pins for the link for the website made by Anthor, then use the interactive map feature

I didn't make the design in the map, I hand built this, uploaded the save, and then took a screenshot of what it looks like on the map

[kind cliff]

ohh ty

[muted crypt]

yep ^-^

[deep root]

How many batteries do you have? I'll make a guess and say if you have at least 25 you should be able to get away with the gens turning on quickly enough

[muted crypt]

50, but I need like 13 GW to power this whole system lol

Between batteries and generators I have 8.9 GW total

[deep root]

That's 30 minutes or so of battery time then if I can math correctly

[muted crypt]

Hmm

That might be okay then... we'll see, I guess

[deep root]

Batteries use mwh, so if you use all the capacity it will take 1 hour... So just calculate that way

[supple mural]

50 x 360000MJ, divided by 13000MW would be... 23 minutes and change

batteries have unlimited output, so you cant really just add them to your existing generator capacity

[hazy garden]

I want to know how many foundations are in image

[muted crypt]

At least six

[hazy garden]

:middle finger:

at least one? eh? EH?!

[muted crypt]

💙

I will count in a bit.

I'm currently at a red light.

[magic shadow]

ok at least one more than six

[topaz hedge]

Mmm tuuurrbboofuel

[muted crypt]

furbotuel

[oblique hollow]

Furtobuel

[muted crypt]

bubbobueb

[magic shadow]

fttbfbtf

[muted crypt]

I like that one

[bleak coral]

Doggofuel

[muted crypt]

nO

[uncut pine]

hello, the best alternate recipes for encased industrial beams? compact steel and encased industrial pipe? thanks 🙂

[magic shadow]

solid steel is a little better bc you don't need sulphur but it's up to you

that combination is pretty good

if you can, also use wet concrete and pure iron ingot (if using solid steel)

[cedar mica]

Coke steel, solid steel, compact steel, basic steel, it all works. It just depends on what you mean by best

[uncut pine]

okay thanks for the answers, i will looking 🙂

[muted crypt]

(pure iron -> solid steel) + wet concrete + encased industrial pipe

when scaling up to 6/min for both machines with the base and alt recipes for encased beams, it's 10.5 steel ingots used per beam with the alt vs 16 steel ingots per beam

[uncut pine]

oh okay

thank you!

[muted crypt]

Concrete goes unchanged - 5 per beam

[bleak coral]

coke steel is also pretty good now, though I still prefer solid steel

[cedar mica]

There is 2 ways to view best, least amount of resources and fewest machines. Normal steel - encased instrial beam, is the fewest machines

[bleak coral]

compacted steel is bad, everything it does the other recipes do better

[muted crypt]

and the path I gave up above is least resources^

[bleak coral]

technically less coal, but it just trades it for a rarer resource

[muted crypt]

the path I gave up above uses 3.77 iron ore, 7.00 coal, 8.40 water and 7.5 limestone per encased beam
for comparison, the default path uses 16.00 iron ore, 16.00 coal and 15.00 limestone per encased beam

[cedar mica]

The amount of resources you use, is only a problem, if you start pushing map limits

[muted crypt]

so you swap out 76.4375% of the iron ore, 56.25% of the coal, and 50% of the limestone in exchange for a small amount of water 😉

math credit goes to greeny's calculator

[bleak coral]

it can also decrease your logistics, since you won't need as many nodes so you don't have to work out how to transport the extra resources

[muted crypt]

@hazy garden I counted the foundations.

[cedar mica]

Or it can increase your logistics, as you have more products to move

[muted crypt]

Hopefully those boxes are even visible

They were in paint

[hazy garden]

thanks :), I can at least add up how big of a pad that is

[muted crypt]

189.568 square kilometers if I'm not stupid and did my math right

which sounds absurd, but meh

I don't even have the generators in place 😭

I just realized that's nearly 3k foundations without even building generators

[rancid moon]

Maybe I should have asked here instead of Q&H...

I picked the third of the alternates, and after some math found out that 16 ref making plastic, 8 making rubber, 3 making fuel, 2 making petr. coke at 75%, and 2 more to handle the resin can power 8 blenders at 100%...

But since this whole setup requires oil, sulfur and water... is the third alternate actually any good?

[gilded bone]

You need sulfur for nuclear so no

[rancid moon]

There's two days of building wasted then 🙂

Still, 10 fuel generators per blender = 80 fuel generators, that should tie me over for a while

[bleak coral]

that's an argument for using the turbo blend fuel, it uses less sulfur......

[rancid moon]

less sulfur per MW?

[bleak coral]

less sulfur per turbofuel, again there's an example in the gallery at the bottom of that wiki page

[gilded bone]

Why use turbofuel at all when you could just go straight to nuclear?

I just use diluted fuel to tide me over until I hit nuclear

[rancid moon]

I saw that, but none of the other alternates use sulfur at all, so maybe I'm thick but I don't know what you mean 🙂

[bleak coral]

compacted coal is made out of sulfur

[rancid moon]

Ah, yes, I'm thick 🙂

Yeah, then it isn't much more complicated than the other ones, since I don't need coal

I know nuclear is awesome, but saving that for another project 🙂

[bleak coral]

I'd still say it's more complicated, cause you still need diluted fuel and you need to split the HOR 3 ways plus also make the coke, but I guess that's subjective and it's not too much more complicated all things considered

[rancid moon]

I don't use dilluted fuel

[bleak coral]

why?

[rancid moon]

1. Don't have it yet. 2. Didn't know about it. 3. Just using the regular fuel recepy and use the resin for fabrics

[manic oak]

It's actually not that complicated. Most of your HOR is left as is, and even if you're making 64 GW worth of TurboFuel, you only need about 6 blenders making blended fuel.

[rancid moon]

This basically, unless my math is horrible

[languid bone]

i just clicked this channel and my brain already hurts

im going back to my spaghetti, thanks

[keen flame]

Spaghetti can't save you here https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/291616939770642432/722569266918064128/unknown.png

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[keen flame]

Why not just use a sink?

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[keen flame]

Lmao

Happens xD

[glossy sapphire]

Lol

[languid bone]

The organization......

Im melting

[keen flame]

I would like you to know that I applied that same organizational technique all the way up through turbo motors and now beyond

And that's an old screenshot xD

[languid bone]

i dropped organization at reinforced plates

i have to slide everywhere to get under the belts

[keen flame]

Bold of you to assume I have room to slide

[waxen shore]

could anyone enlighten me at what is the rate at which itens come out of storage containers? So I can math my production line from there.

[deep root]

The rate is that of the belt as long as enough items are within the container

@waxen shore

[muted crypt]

^

[waxen shore]

tyvm sorry for double post.

[old ember]

I want to see a recent screen shot - please?

[keen flame]

LMao, sure I was planning to take one anyway. gimme a sec

[fringe crow]

Anyone have a 2 to 5 belt split?

I got 5 machines that need 5 100/min screws. And I got two lines coming in at 250 screws each.

Nvm Im stupid.

I can do overflow x2 on both sides then a merger on the middle one.

[topaz hedge]

I asked this in general, I guess I'll ask here.. has anyone shipped packaged nitrogen by train, if so. what's the minium number of empty canisters you needed to put into the loop to make it work?

[cedar mica]

Thats kind of hard to tally up, other then the train wagon size (32 stacks). Because it depends on the amount of machines, the length of conveyors and so on

I would start with 2 industrial containers and see

[keen flame]

Got a few incoming

and one from the ground to show how truly horrifying of a mess this was to navigate without hoverpacks XD

actually, this could make some fun obstacle course racing...

[cedar mica]

Still got room to move, so not messy enough 😛

[old ember]

Dear god, that's.... horrific and beautiful at the same time.

[keen flame]

I cleaned it up a little bit XD

the fun part is when you realize that in order to find anything I need to refill my inventory, I ahve to manuall;y check every single container until I find it

[cedar mica]

Follow that belt!

[keen flame]

Easier said than done. this is the "clean" and "organized" part of the factory

[cedar mica]

You can fit on a belt, when crouching

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, packager loops I understand. the only part I know is I need to move 300 containers/min

[keen flame]

shoutout to my HMF storage where I didn't have room to place the containers so I just floated them high up

[topaz hedge]

now dats a factorie

[keen flame]

this is my o.g. save xD I'm slowly prepping it to eventually strip this all down and build a megafactory

I tried another megabuild before but scrapped it/file is dead

[cedar mica]

The "issue" with mega builds, is that you more or less needs to plan what to build, ahead of time, as you will quickly eat up room to move, even with entire belt floors

[keen flame]

More than that - you need to plan the space for them. my current roadblock is just planning out where to place the facilities and transport lines

which means I have to basically plan the entire facility from the ground up before placing it so I know how much space I actually need

If only there was a base planner software.... 🤔

[cedar mica]

The alternative is to take the belts between floors, out of the building, so all you need is an empty wall/path to get things moved

In my case, thats called drones

[keen flame]

I'm allocating about 1200 batteries for drones

But I have to plan out those too XD I'm not sure how many I'll need yet

[topaz hedge]

Yup, my big build this time around involved speading everything out around the map and bringing either ingots, or finished parts into grasslands.

[keen flame]

My plan is to build the entire base airborne, with as little ground contact as possible. I'd like to then transport all solid resources via drone - but I think that's way more than just drones can handle

so I need to figure out the train network and primary lift locations

[cedar mica]

Drones are about MK3 belt level

Depending on stack size

[topaz hedge]

they're a little less than that. I needed 4 drone ports to move 600 uranium/min to my nuclear plant

[cedar mica]

Havent done other side of map test yet, just biome level distance

[topaz hedge]

on scim, a b line from my uranium mine's drone port to the dropoff at the powerplant is 5km

I'm not sure how much better their fair with shorter distances, as this is the only time I've used them.

[keen flame]

what's the round trip time/battery/min consumption on that?

[topaz hedge]

I dunno roundtrip time. but it does JUST move 600/min when I tested it with a sink on the other end. but going off of that. it's 11.4 batteries/min to maintain that throughput

[cedar mica]

Can probably double or triple the drones, on a trip that long.

[keen flame]

so that's about 171/min over 5km?

[cedar mica]

As in each station gets a drone, halfing the amount of drone platforms needed

[topaz hedge]

I tried it with 3 ports at first, and it kept running out feeding a sink, added another droneport and it's good :3

it's about 150/min per drone station.

[cedar mica]

I guess my 2880 designed drone platform spaces, might not be that overkill, after all

[topaz hedge]

BUT drones kinda make up their own path from area to area, and there's no way to know what path they'll take until you try it.. so the best way to figure it out.. is kinda like what we did with trains.. build a platform, connect it to a sink.. measure throughput

unless you want to trust a UI that can't give you an accurate efficiency reading on a machine XD

[keen flame]

Hmmmm....so it looks like I completely could manage all raw resources with drones. Assuming average rate of about 150/min (snice most resources stack to 100), it would take just shy of 1500 drones

[topaz hedge]

Lol

[keen flame]

the issue is the 4200 batteries needed for that. that's a bit more than I'm comfortable producing xD

[cedar mica]

Remember, the drones only takes batterys, when they dock. So you might only use 1/5 of that on avarage

[keen flame]

the drone port calculates that, doesn't it?

[topaz hedge]

I think trains are still the winners for throughput by far. but the drones arn't useless.

[keen flame]

if round trip is 2 minutes, and it's 2.5/min, it would dock and take 5 batteries

[topaz hedge]

The drone port calculations are kinda bugged with item throughput, I dunno about batteries.. but the drones also use different battery rates now

[keen flame]

oh, absolutely. I'm just trying to see if I can get away with lifting the base almost entirely off the ground

[topaz hedge]

I'm using drones to fly uranium, and I'm going to use drones to fly finished pressure cubes to my pasta factorie

[keen flame]

I think I can definitely use drones for sulfur, uranium, bauxite, low-throughput things like that that are scattered across the map. I think the iron/copper/limestone lines will require full train circuits and distribution centers to run

[topaz hedge]

yeah trains for those

[cedar mica]

The question is, if the platform says 2.5/m batterys, do you need to make that per minute or do you only need to have the batterys available, when it docks? The last, can mean that you might be able to do more drones, for less batterys

After all, I dont know if the platform, takes docking and take off time, into account

[topaz hedge]

Here's a screenshot from the UI from my battery port in grasslands that picks up batteries and flies from the swamp and flies them down (I use drones.. to move batteries... for drones X3 )

[keen flame]

Both are true...you need to be able to supply that many per minute to keep all your drones running

[topaz hedge]

that's about a 4km trip

[cedar mica]

Also, atm 4560/m is the max amount of batterys

[topaz hedge]

max batteries... no sulfur for turbofuel or nuclear? D:

[keen flame]

I'm only producing 1225. My sulfur is otherwise dedicated to uranium reprocessing + a little bit of supplemental turbofuel

[topaz hedge]

I make 90 lol

It was 100, then they "rebalanced" aluminum again

[keen flame]

I waited until the final balance update to start doing all my planning

which reminds me, I actually need to post a thank you to the devs XD

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, I couldn't do that.. the first thing I did when U4 dropped was run out and go nuclear

[cedar mica]

As long as you use sinks sparingly, you can reduce the amount of drones that constantly fly. Meaning the batterys can supply a lot more.

[keen flame]

I knew I'd just have to com,pletely redo my plans whenever balance changes hit so I didn't bother XD

[cedar mica]

And yeah, this might require some mods, to get both enough power and enough batterys

[keen flame]

or just smart usage of drones.

[topaz hedge]

Maybe one day, we'll be able to put batteries into a generator and get power out of them?

[cedar mica]

Dont even know if the game will handle that many drones. Seen the game hit limits, when just 100 carts where zooming around

[keen flame]

How so? Unless you mean that you want your factory to eventually back itself up when storage is full. I'm intending to have the factory constantly running

[cedar mica]

Different things are needed in different rations. So the drone dropping of quartz crystal, might only need 1 trip, per 10th quickwire trip

If no sinks eats the excess, you reduce the amount of batterys, for inbetween products

[keen flame]

I think you're under the mistaken assumption that I'm not already planning drones according to throughput of each item

[topaz hedge]

if we could use batteries for our power grid.. that's 4560 * 6000MJ = MW out yes?

if so.. I guess that's never going to happen...

[cedar mica]

1 plutonium fuel rod, has the energy of 250 batterys, so not very practical

[topaz hedge]

yes but 4560 = 18.24 fuelrods >.>

[cedar mica]

So about 12 uranium and 6 plutonium fuel rods, depending on how the math works out or the factory to make 4560 batterys... Think nuclear is less work

[topaz hedge]

it's about as much total power from batteries as oil yes?

456GW if we had battery generators

practical? Probably not, but neither is max power from oil

[cedar mica]

I'm sure the modders, can think of something

[keen flame]

Um, no? what is happening with your math lol

[topaz hedge]

4560 batter/min * 6000MJ / 60 = MW

Maybe, I'd kinda like to see it in base game.. because.. battery powered remote drone stations XD

[keen flame]

you're assuming that you burn 1 battery per minute

[cedar mica]

Then assume you burn 250 batterys, in the time a plutonium fuel rods burn, as they are the same energy

[topaz hedge]

No, I'm assuming the generator is 100% efficient. 6000MJ is the energy in 1 battery

unless they changed battery energy o.O it used to be 6000Mj

[keen flame]

it is 6000Mj

[bleak coral]

burn rate only determines the number of machines you need to convert the energy, the energy is still coming in at the same rate

120ppm coal is the same rate of energy no matter how you've done clockspeeds for generators right?

[keen flame]

but you should only be seeing 45GW, not 456

[topaz hedge]

How did you get that?

[keen flame]

considering that the generator doesn't exist yet:
If a generator burns 10 batteries per minute and produces 100MW, or a generator burns 1 battery/min and produces 100MW, that drastically alters the actual calculations

so the actual output is impossible to know because we don't know the efficiency of the generator

[cedar mica]

If you use Turbo Fuel, 2000MJ, you get 456GW with 3x the amount as max batterys. So its not unreasonable

[bleak coral]

that would change the energy in a battery, and like wolfgrim said he's assuming 100% efficient conversion which is consistent with the rest of satisfactory

[topaz hedge]

but every other generator in game is 100% efficient at converting energy of fuel into power...

[bleak coral]

well change the energy or be inefficient in the conversion

[keen flame]

I'm just saying that the math is pointless without knowing if the generator will be 100% efficient. is it a reasonable assumption? sure. but still an assumption of an unknown variable

[cedar mica]

That would make an interesting change. Go green with batterys, but get 75% of the energy

[bleak coral]

that's asinine, of course it's speculative it's all speculative for potential additions to the game of course you have to make assumptions

[topaz hedge]

I think we'd be safe to assume they'd be 100% because that's consistent with the game, your other point is also valid, as it doesn't exist.

[keen flame]

It's asinine to make the assumption without clarifying that it is an assumption. which is why I clarified it

[topaz hedge]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't implemented at some point or another though.

[keen flame]

I'd be surprised if it was implemented tbh. Feels like batteries are meant to power infrastructure and not generators

[cedar mica]

Its more that it dont fit the FICSIT mantra. Then again, throwing things in the trash can, also dont

[keen flame]

the sink isn't a trash can, it's a research perogative 😛

[cedar mica]

Inventory has a trash can. Unless you argu that it is FICSIT RnD taking things out of your inventory, as they have access to expanding it

[keen flame]

a) I'd headcanon it, you're just shunting things off to another pocket dimension
b) Player actions aren't necessarily approved by ficsit either 😛

[bleak coral]

pocket dimensions are a pretty great handwave

[cedar mica]

Spends months making things look good, instead of producing more... Yeah, not FICSIT employ of the year

[keen flame]

see, I have an interesting argument

Organized, aesthetically clean workspaces are scientifically proven to improve workplace efficiency

similarly: Happier employees are more efficient. And the strangest one: reducing the hours in a workweek improves overall productivity.

[versed violet]

yet, creative people are said to have messy workdesks

[keen flame]

Someone working 30-36 hours a week will perform the same amount or more work as someone working 40-60 hours

[cedar mica]

Belt spagetty is faster then making perfect 90s... So guess it depends on how you define efficient

[keen flame]

I think this is more a product of mental health among current generations and the tendency for creative people to be consistently starting new projects and generating ideas rather than spending time "finishing" something or cleaning up

I can say from personal experience (as a creative) I always do better work when my desk is tidy and organized

[cedar mica]

Of course, for troubleshooting, its the opposite. Belt spaggety is harder to troubleshoot

[topaz hedge]

Eh well there wasen't a QA post for battery generators that I could find... so i made one lol

[supple mural]

as to the talk about batteries earlier...

60 batteries/min will be 6000MW

because that's one battery each second

so youll be able to determine the power output of a certain production rate of batteries

no reason anyone would do it though, cuz you should use the sulfur for other things

[topaz hedge]

It wouldn't be a very useful thing, but I think it'd be nice to have for that one remote location :3

[cedar mica]

Packaged fuel and a fuel gens or 5. Works quite well for an outpost

[topaz hedge]

unless there's no oil xD

I suppose you could fly that in by drone too though

[cedar mica]

The drone would not fly that often, as it will wait till its unloaded all 9 stacks

[gilded maple]

Lol I could get done with the same amount of work in 20 hours what most would take to do 60 when I was a process control engineer. Hated that I only got payed hourly so I’d be taking like a 2-3 hour lunch break every day bc I had nothing to do after 11

[red plover]

Me, right now, doing software development...

[hazy garden]

Can someone explain to me why Satisfactory trains use orders of magnitude more energy than conventional trains, be it Diesel-electric, or fully electric, when considering train speeds and/or loads?

[bleak coral]

Big numbers fun

[hazy garden]

lmao, 2.38MW compared to 25~110MW is a HUGE discrepancy

[bleak coral]

Also everything is using crazy scifi tech for like pocket dimensions and stuff

This is not a realistic game

[shrewd kelp]

If you're assuming Ficsit MW are equivalent in any way to real world MW, you've already been fired by Ficsit

[hazy garden]

lmao, alright

but.. but..

[bleak coral]

Suspend that disbelief right now before you look up how much energy it takes to make an iron ingot in the real world. And get immensely more disappointed. 😛

[supple mural]

i mean, why does a constructor use the same power as a small town?

its just the scale of power is really different

110MW is only like, two manufacturers, anyway

[hazy garden]

just watching a gigawatt disappear to 9-ish trains is just... insane

[supple mural]

yeah, that do be a big number

ive just given up on games having realistic power draw

like, the manufacturer has no damn right to be using 55MW

its literally three arms and a fancy chamber

realistically at most it would be a few kilowatts

[swift robin]

you see, ficsit loves efficiency, but only with respect to time. with respect to energy fiscit couldn't give less of a damn

[supple mural]

that explains the damn power shards taking more power as you overclock

[bleak coral]

You could divide all the power numbers by 1000 and they'd probably still be too big in places.

[supple mural]

for instance, mr. debba's train

wait then theyd be too small

oops, i cant do math

[topaz hedge]

The closest fiscit machine to a real world machine to power usage are the smelter and the refinery.

although this is comparing a large steel mill with several big arc furances, to one machine. and refineries that are huge facilities, to one machine.

[potent pebble]

Would anyone mind helping me? I'm trying to figure if turbo blend fuel is any good, and I'm assuming someone here has done the math on it already

[topaz hedge]

it good

[potent pebble]

thank 🙂

[topaz hedge]

it uses more oil, but no coal and less sulfur. in a nutshell.

[potent pebble]

gotcha. less sulfur good

I appreciate the help

[topaz hedge]

Sorry I'm not more detailed with the math, you can use u4.satisfactorytools.com to check the numbers. less sulfur and no coal was enough to sell me on it lol

[loud heron]

Is there a rule of thumb for deciding how much crude oil becomes plastic/rubber and how much is burned as power?

[oblique isle]

Well it depends on how far you are into the game, if you have tiers 7 and 8, go for nuclear and use the oil for plastic/rubber. If not, use what you need for power and use alts if you can.

[loud heron]

I am currently tier 5-6

most of my coal is being used for steel and power

But since coal is rarely next to iron, I use any isolated coal veins for coal gens and iron/coal pairs for steel

However Im slowly going to run into a power ceiling, but I also want to expand properly into rubber and plastic with room to expand

[oblique isle]

Yea, I'd switch to oil for power, use 600 crude oil for 666.66(x2) turbo fuel production and then use the rest of the coal for steel production.

[loud heron]

so I should muster 600m3 crude purely for turbo fuel?

and the rest for plastic and rubber?

[eternal portal]

I try to calculate the scheme for my plutonium production, but https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production does not like it. for all recipes involving plutonium it just outputs "Unfortunately we couldn't calculate any result." is this a bug?

[noble timber]

I turn it all into plastic and rubber at a 1:3 ratio and then the heavy oil residue is turned into diluted fuel

[vast jungle]

you have to add the "Uranium Waste" as an additional input... otherwise all plutonium stuff is impossible

[eternal portal]

ah sneaky. thanks henning

[sand garnet]

you're on an alien planet building potentially floating factories, where vehicles and players ARE affected by gravity.
You're spawning stuff out of a pocket dimension to pretty much instabuild giant machines after which you can fight fire spitting mobs .
Realism is not exactly what this game is aiming for

[vast jungle]

I find the floating concrete more funny than trains consuming an arbitrary amount of electrical power 😉

but as long as the game is fun and reasonable balanced, I am fine with both

[umbral harbor]

I've only played one game with a physics engine that doesn't allow this sort of thing and it was neat there, but I wouldn't want it here.

[cloud marlin]

would you use super state computer recipe? it seems fine to me

[wind spade]

yeah it's pretty good

[vast jungle]

the "OC Supercomputer" could be a trap... "oh look, only two inputs"... but they are expensive.

I am still thinking about what to do (I have a ton of Supercomputers from U3, so I am not in a hurry)

[wide gate]

hello friends

I think Im losing my mind - cast screws read that they are producing at 50 per minute, but they actually produce 60 per minute... is this intentional? no overclocking has been done.

[wind spade]

yeah, tools think that it's worse than normal

[wide gate]

(also - greeny, thanks for your website and tools, loved them)

[wind spade]

cast screws produce 50/min

how did you figure out that they produce 60?

[vast jungle]

it was the same with the 2-input computer recipe... "Oh look, just an assembler"... yes, and one of the inputs was Crystal Oscilators

[wide gate]

So the assembler they are going into reads 60 incoming, and they are piling up where they shouldnt be

[wind spade]

is it producing at all times?

[wide gate]

belt is mk2, no OC on anything! yes producing all the time

[wind spade]

I mean the assembler they are going into

[wide gate]

oh my god

[wind spade]

if the output belt is full, it may stop producing causing the screws to stop producing

[wide gate]

oh no... the per minute value on a machines inputs are dynamic right - they display how many it's getting, or is that a display of how many is needed?

[wind spade]

no, that displays how many is needed

[wide gate]

Well I feel like a smoothbrained fool

thank you

Iron ingots bottlenecking plates, bottlenecking machine 🙂

[vast jungle]

you found it, thats the important thing

[vestal wharf]

Hey guys, does anyone has a way to split a conveyor into 5? (I need to split 60 into 12)

[wide gate]

https://i.redd.it/cehm5oonjdo21.png

[vast jungle]

beware of belt limits

the belt between the merge and the first splitter will limit the output of the 5 results, so make sure its a MK2 at least 😉

[vestal wharf]

smOrt

[fringe crow]

If you're doing overflow theres another way.

I had a similar problem yesterday where I needed to take 2 250 belts of Screws and split them to assemblers for 100 each.

Ended up doing this. Green = Splitter, Orange = Merger.

[stark meteor]

just increase or decrease the OI with OC, no need to go crazy with spaghetti conveyors

[wind spade]

you can also just use a manifold

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[vestal wharf]

will the X value will be 12?

if I put 60 at the start

[wind spade]

yeah, over time it'll balance

[vast jungle]

first X will get 30... but it will fill up... and then the belt to X will block and only take 12 anymore... so the rest 48 will go along to the next S

[vestal wharf]

But the thing is I'm making a system that will never fill up

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wind spade]

that's fine

this will still work

only first 3 machines will get filled and after that the system will run normally, each machine getting 12/min

[molten cedar]

is this too much ? 🙂

[unborn ermine]

too much white yes

[molten cedar]

😄

[upbeat tide]

You can simplify that physical topology if you want too

That said, even tho its blurry, like it

[molten cedar]

blurry is just zoom level

box size is related to real size game :1 box = 0.5m

[upbeat tide]

Visio?

[molten cedar]

excel 😄 (what else? )

[wind spade]

I never felt like this game needs planning on this level

[molten cedar]

me neither just that it's fun if you need to perfect counts. I wanted a 10 nuclear plant perfect path at update3 , that started like this ....

[rapid edge]

hey guys, idk if the question has been answered already:
Does it make sense to use blenders for a turbofuel production to skip the packaging but stil use refineries to make the turbofuel itself or is there a more efficient way now?

[vast jungle]

@wind spade me too, but I had to do this to keep track of what was going on on my map last week:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FzsXuS_KoY3Rcfjwq19W3Bzsg6c1CHkg/view?usp=sharing

[vast jungle]

"Diluted Fuel (Blender)" and "Packaged Diluted Fuel" (Refinery) have the same efficiency (input to output ratio)

[upbeat tide]

If you have turbo blend fuel its better than normal turbofuel. It uses more oil but half the sulfur. And no need of compacted coal

[vast jungle]

"Blended Turbofuel (Blender)" on the other side offers a different tradeoff

[rapid edge]

but if you use blender you dont have to package the heavy oil & water so what makes more sense

[vast jungle]

the ratios of HOR to Diluted Fuel to Turbofuel are a bit more "off" for the blender recipe...

but nothing some creative numbering or under/overclocking cannot solve

[rapid edge]

so what should i use now when i have all recipes?

[upbeat tide]

? Its 1:1

100 HOR in and 100 fuel out

You need 4 diluted fuel blenders per 10 HOR refineries from 300m3 oil

Actually 8 my bad

Its 0.5:1

Same ratio as packaged diluted just fewer machines

[vast jungle]

I would most likely go for Turbo-Blended Fuel...

[upbeat tide]

As a user of TBF...im happy with it

Only using 1200 sulfur to make 2400 TF. Much less than normal TF or THF

[vast jungle]

luckily I "only" use ~1000 sulfur for (packaged-diluted) turbofuel... so there is enough left on the map... in some remote corners 😉

[near pier]

How can i make a full assembler or modular frames from 30 or 60 iron?

[ruby berry]

hi, i currently have access to 2 iron nodes, 1 copper node, and 1 limestone node and im wondering what is the most effecient way i can make all the basic stuff (wire, cable, plates, screws, rods, concrete, etc) and then also make reinforced plates and rotors? im very bad at figuring this out. i can automate all of these things but its not very effecient

actually i was wrong, i can get one more iron node and one more limestone node rn

[frosty owl]

Making a "quick and DIRTY" HMF factory is resulting in some very interesting ratios
780 iron ore in, use pure recipe and there are 10 ore/min as overflow.
The pure setup is divided in left and right wing (11 refs each) and guess what... Each wing lacks exactly 5 ingots/min to perfectly feed 1 row of coated plates each! Slap a smelter in there and all the iron is smelted with no overflow
Issue: refineries output at 65/min, coated plates want 50/min. Solution: OC all of the assemblers at 120%, they now take 60/mim (supereasy to balance) and output 90/min (**just enough for the bolted plates assemblers!! **) ||continues...? ||

[ruby berry]

holy crap theres no way i can get that much iron per minute or that many smelters

is there a satisfactory calculator that lets you put in how many nodes you can use?

[frosty owl]

The one you're using has such a function, just set an ore limit in the "inputs" tab

[ruby berry]

how do i know how many ore all my nodes output? it just says the amount per minute but the website just wants a raw value

[muted crypt]

You can do the math yourself on that since it's simple enough, it's just the base mining rate of whatever miner tier you're using multiplied by the purity multiplier

[ruby berry]

no i mean like, since i have 2 nodes at 120 per minute each, should i just put 240 into the calculator, or is that wrong

[muted crypt]

Nope, that's correct

Just plug that in and it'll do its thing

[ruby berry]

alrighty

thanks

that is far more reasonable thanks

so then another thing im slightly confused about, i may just be too stupid, but this factory map from the calculator is still a bit hard for me to read? i wish it showed like splitters and mergers and stuff

[vast jungle]

Splitters and mergers depend on your design

[ruby berry]

yes i know

but i wish it gave maybe a minimum needed or something

[vast jungle]

so how should the calculator know what you prefer?

The minimum needed would be something with all machines overclock to 250%

[ruby berry]

and also how do you make like 3.17 constructors like it says?

[vast jungle]

Over/underclocking

[ruby berry]

overclock one by 17% or underclock one by 87%

[vast jungle]

Or any other combination of machines resulting in the same sum

[ruby berry]

alrighty this is gonna be a big project tearing down my whole factory and rebuilding but ill get it done

[vast jungle]

I would just start a new factory

[ruby berry]

i have another question but its more of a #old-questions-and-help question than a math one

[frosty owl]

Make 4 (or whatever number is CONVENIENT to make), sink/store the excess ;)

[ruby berry]

i would but for now im not moving

[oblique blade]

do i understand this right?

if I am making a B product, 1 per minute, i can feed 2x A product which is being made 0.5 per minute

[muted crypt]

As long as you're okay with them alternating in when they run at the start, and those A recipes only use 0.5 B per minute, yes

[frosty owl]

They won't really alternate...
If the machine outputs 2B at each cycle, they won't even start at different times ^^

[ruby berry]

im confused once again, i put in 120 copper per minute into the calculator and for some reason it wants me to put it all the way down to 10.96 per minute which i cant do

[muted crypt]

It's probably only taking 10.96 to accomplish the output goal you set for it

[ruby berry]

i set it to maximize

[bleak coral]

then something else is probably bottlenecking it before the copper. share the link?

[ruby berry]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Nv7mnkrBrDSurWywVPQg

[bleak coral]

oh you're using multiple maximize, that doesn't work like you think it does

[ruby berry]

oh no

[vast jungle]

yes, multiple maximize is not something you can calculate... because some parts are just tradeoffs

[bleak coral]

multiple maximize has infinite solutions, so as a tiebreaker it sets them all to the same parts per minute, and then you can use the sliders to adjust the porportional parts per minute

[ruby berry]

i have to do more math dont i

[vast jungle]

"do I want to do more wire or more cable?"

[ruby berry]

i want more of neither

i want them both as many as i can make

perfect 50 50 split

[bleak coral]

yeah break this down more and take it piece by piece, doing something like this just isn't useful

it's not enough input for an actual solution

[ruby berry]

and so is it the same problem with the limestone?

[vast jungle]

I would suggest start with setting each of them to "5" and then increase things you like until you don't have enough resources

some parts you will need more, some less

[ruby berry]

for all of them? not just copper stuff?

[bleak coral]

yeah

[ruby berry]

alrighty

ive already built most of the iron stuff tho :(

[bleak coral]

they're all currently set to 7.31 parts per minute, probably because that's the most smart plating per minute you can make

[vast jungle]

just experiment with the numbers...

[bleak coral]

calculator just isn't an AI, it can't plan your factory for you

[vast jungle]

or look up in which "batches" the production happens and try to use it as the requested number

(or twice/half at much)

[ruby berry]

alright so ig ill redo the numbers on the calculator and start rebuilding again

[bleak coral]

it can only find solutions with enough input, multiple maximize just isn't that useful in planning cause it's got too many variable outputs

[ruby berry]

so what do the sliders next to maximise do

[bleak coral]

find the most you can make, which is really useful if you're doing it for just one thing

[vast jungle]

never used the maximize feature

[bleak coral]

but with multiple items it's too many different outputs so managing it gets weird

maximize also doesn't solve for efficiency (yet), only most items

so usually you do it for one item, then take that amount and switch it to items/min

[ruby berry]

alright

thanks for all the help ill come back if i need anymore help

wait, its still giving me weird numbers

[bleak coral]

oh I misread this, sorry I'm sleepy. I totally didn't explain sliders at all lol

The sliders change the relative parts per minute. So like if one is all the way to the right and the other is in the middle, then the one all way to the right will make the most and the one in the middle will make half of that

[ruby berry]

i set limestone to the max it will calculate at and its only using 75% of the nodes resources

same with copper

[bleak coral]

is it the only thing set to max?

[ruby berry]

none are set to maximise

im doing it by numbers now

would this work better if i used the calculator 3 seperate times to do copper stuff, iron stuff, and limestone stuff?

[bleak coral]

yeah

[ruby berry]

alright ill do that

[bleak coral]

items/min also isn't solving for most, just efficiently getting the items/min you set

[ruby berry]

so what is my best option here if i want equal amounts of everything

but like the most

well i dont really want equal amounts of everything but i mean like all equally maxed out

[muted crypt]

I feel like certain parts you want more than others

Like you might want a lot of output production for concrete, cables, etc

But you won't need a lot per minute of, say, modular frames

[ruby berry]

i do want a lot of reenforced plates

but other than that idrc

[bleak coral]

separate tabs using maximize in each, and then decide an arbitrary amount of smart plating you want to make from the materials you're making

and probably decide how to split the iron yourself, like 50/50 ore or whatever

[ruby berry]

ok these are looking a lot better

but ive still gotta figure out the iron one

[bleak coral]

don't forget you can add inputs in the tabs, like materials you're already making

[ruby berry]

im building my factory from scratch so im not making anything rn

i had a small one before that was horribly inneffecient but i let it sit for a few hours and get a load of materials to put into this new effecient ish one

[bleak coral]

well I mean you can plan out an earlier part, then add those materials in another tab
for example lets say you maxamize equal rods/sheets, you can then decide how much of that you want to use for reinforced plates and add that as an input

[ruby berry]

i could but idk if im smart enough to work that all out

[bleak coral]

I mean you kinda have to, that's the part the calculator can't do: deciding how to divvy up your resources

you have 120 iron ore/min and want to make rods, sheets, screws, reinforced plates, and smart plating

the calculator can't decide how to divide that up

[ruby berry]

i have 360 iron ore per minute and want to make rotors and screws as well

[oblique blade]

So i need 300 copper ingot per minute, (input), to produce 50 Copper powder right?

[late bluff]

yes?

[oblique blade]

alright, sry for noob questions 😄

[vast jungle]

much better to answer a question how to understand the wiki than only being asked about a solution... the first helps to solve problems yourself 🙂

[loud heron]

Is there a point in my satisfactory career where I should reevaluate my spaghetti and refactor everything?

I got conveyor belts going around the entire desert biome, but I dunno when or if I should do something like a central hub or some form of specialization

Am I expected to use more than just the Desert biome's nodes?

[bleak coral]

yes, you're expected to explore and it's also a perfectly valid option to use what you're making now to make a new, more organized base elsewhere and then dismantle or abandon the original base

people do that all the time, if refactoring the base is too much trouble

[bleak coral]

@fresh elm not including fertile uranium (which complicates matters by using uranium ore to make plutonium and I think is less power anyway), there's a max of 50.4 uranium fuel rods to make 2520 waste which can be turned into 22.4 plutonium rods to make 224 plutonium waste

so not even one mk3 belt of waste

[fresh elm]

that's nothing

that's less than I made in update 3 even at partial utilization

[bleak coral]

fertile would probably increase that if it's actually good to use for max power, but I doubt by much

It's a bit less max power at 1.19TW instead of the what? 1.24+TW it was before

[fresh elm]

no, it was 1.13 I think

[bleak coral]

oh dang, so it's more

[fresh elm]

this includes my turbofuel

[bleak coral]

ooooh wavy

[fresh elm]

the wavy is the geothermal

[vast jungle]

maybe... if you get to the "endgame" and still like your Spaghetti, go with it and produce CRAZY screenshots... if you get to the point where you want "more order" go for it too 😉

[fresh elm]

which I won't use in update 4, because I am not going to make batteries.

[bleak coral]

yeah I'm not a fan of how they basically just made it more complicated with the very boring solution of "just add power storage"

[fresh elm]

there's legit no good reason to use geothermal now

[bleak coral]

I thought it was worthless before anyway so.....

[fresh elm]

nah, it wsa great before

used before any other power source, aka free power

[bleak coral]

I didn't find that a useful feature in a world of limitless resources

[fresh elm]

now fuel is always consumed at 100%

so there's no point at all

[swift robin]

yeah we really need a rework of geothermal

just so little benefit for such a high tech generator

[bleak coral]

green energy rework + add some hydro dam power/spots

would love for them to figure out a way to do wind/solar too without it being susceptible to just spamming them

[swift robin]

wind would probably be easy to limit

[hazy garden]

What exactly happened to geothermal? I didn't reach geothermal before u4 came out, I'll go look up the chanagelog in the meantime

[swift robin]

because wind is invisible

but limiting solar could be hard...

[bleak coral]

especially since it's 45/5 minute split for day/night

[muted crypt]

tl;dr geothermal became a fluctuating power source rather than a solid value across all geysers

[bleak coral]

so you don't really have that dynamic in this game of not having power half the time

[hazy garden]

Ah, random fluctuation

So basically adding capacitors to smooth the output, as a real world example of which I have done multiple times irl

[bleak coral]

yeah

[hazy garden]

I think its a nifty little tidbit to add, as an EE myself

[bleak coral]

as a game mechanic I find it's just extra work for the same result

and the work isn't even interesting

[hazy garden]

meh, as someone who hasn't experienced "before" I like "now"

[bleak coral]

fair enough

I'm generally negative on geothermal anyway, I find it underwhelming in general

so that doesn't help my perspective

[swift robin]

kinda feels like the power storage is there mostly to help make your grid more forgiving to mistakes and to help run particle accelerators if u have a marginal power supply

[bleak coral]

yeah it's not technically necessary at all, but not everything needs to be for building optimally

lots of more casual players that probably appreciate the breathing room

[swift robin]

well if they gave us a better variable power source then my feelings would change

[vast jungle]

they can really help to run your grid higher to the maximum percentage by smoothing out those consumption fluctuations... but I am not sure you really want to do this, you would get constantly messages that the batteries have activated 😉

[stable stirrup]

what do u think about 4000 m^3 of turbofuel ? Is it good idea ?

[muted crypt]

I mean, I'm making 3600

4000 has a bit of an odd ratio count to it for machines

especially depending on how you approach making it

[stable stirrup]

for me not the machines important but the XD effect, but what machines do you mean?

[muted crypt]

sec

all of the machines are whole machines, no clock speed adjustments involved

[stable stirrup]

oh du u use any alternative recipe?

[muted crypt]

You can see in the orange boxes what recipes are alternates by seeing that they lead with "Alternate:"

[stable stirrup]

i mean without using blender's

[muted crypt]

oh

I mean you can go about it without blenders for turbofuel

[stable stirrup]

i still in lvl 5 and 6

[stable stirrup]

what is this program ?

[muted crypt]

This is your 4000 turbofuel/min

if you look in the pins of this channel you'll see a calculator made by greeny

[stable stirrup]

ye i see

[muted crypt]

I'm unsure if it's up to date on the early access vs experimental side so you'll wanna go to the top right and change to experimental for some of the newer recipes... but you could do this before U4, so you could just keep it on the early access (U3) branch

[stable stirrup]

is it satisfactory calc ?

[muted crypt]

satisfactory tools

[stable stirrup]

thx

[muted crypt]

satisfactory calculator is funny enough better used for a map tool than an actual calculator (at least imo)

[wind spade]

should we swap domains for even more confusion?

[loud heron]

Satisfactory calculator is a mess of a tool cause arrows overlap everywhere

It hurts my brain

How am I supposed to line up 22 assemblers in parallel in a biome with limited horizontal freedom

Make it in the sky???

[muted crypt]

should've just on april first

[keen flame]

Well, I'm making turbo motors here....
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/833838131353878538/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/833839153773805608/unknown.png

[loud heron]

I can't imagine making such huge factories

I'm only using like...two coal nodes and like 3 iron ones

The up scaling of factories is definitely overwhelming midgame

[bleak coral]

it's like a game of where's waldo, but with turbomotors

[simple summit]

Hey, a quick question, how do you guys plan the factory foundation ahead for a single node? Say, Iron.

[versed violet]

If you are asking about aligning to grid, some folks really like that and there is a mod with ruler (might be broken atm)
Others, just put miners on bare ground.

[simple summit]

I'm trying to sort my spaghetti mess and redesigning my base and actually make multiple factories dedicated for certain resources. Let's say if I have an Iron node and I want to produce Reinforced Plates with it. How do I know how much space I needed when building the foundation?

I see people building foundations first before occupying it with machines.

[muted crypt]

It's guesswork, mainly

I add on foundations as needed when building

I didn't know the exact shape of this from the start - I added on as I built

[versed violet]

Open excel, calculate machines needed, then figure out how many floors and shape for it.

[simple summit]

Ah okay, thanks for the tips!

[versed violet]

Is water consumption in coal gen rounded up or down for display?

[muted crypt]

clock a coal gen to 167% and compare how much water it says it needs to the calculated value of 66.762543845743140008816328763443

[versed violet]

Says 67, so up?

[muted crypt]

would seem so

however that might just be because of the decimal rounding up

try 162%, see how much water it says compared to 65.219566763851764225044398081213

[versed violet]

65 this time

[muted crypt]

so yeah, it just rounds to the nearest whole number

[versed violet]

163% gives 66 m3

From good news, my backup power grid did not crash in last half hour, so probably works fine, with eventual couple % power waste

is it normal to have a backup power for all my water extractors and miners that power the power plant, then have a backup for backup power to ensure it never stalls 🤣 ?

[velvet finch]

Yup 😂

[versed violet]

And here my nuclear shutdown. Looks my nuke supplies train got lost. can't reach next station??

[fringe crow]

20 Reinforced Iron Plates/min
20 Rotors/min
and 12 Modular Frames/min.

However, Modular Frames use the overflow from Rotors (Iron Rods) and Reinforced Plates.

While its not perfect, it works.

I guess its more:
Rotors > Storage > Modular Frames for Iron Rods
and
Storage > Modular Frames for Reinforced Plates.

Not sure if I can improve at all? Or if this is a horrible idea?

[royal eagle]

Whether it is good or not depends on how far into the game you are.

[fringe crow]

In this case: I haven't made smart platings yet.

[royal eagle]

Ok, then that is a great system.

[jade shore]

I'm sure it's been asked before, but how does one set up an Aluminum factory and deal with the water output from making Aluminum scrap? I can't seem to figure out the piping so the initial input doesn't jam up the output, once the scrap output is full. I was hoping to avoid continuous resource sinking. My flow is Sloppy Alumina into Electrode Scrap.

[upbeat tide]

Ok, depending on your bauxite node

This setup is for a normal node giving 600 bauxite a min

Slop solution - 3 refineries
In - 600 bauxite
In - 180 water (from external), rest from electrode scrap
Out - 720 alu solution

Electrode scrap - 4 refineries
In - 240 petrocoke
In - 720 alu solution
Out - 1200 scrap

Pure alu ingot - 20 smelters
In 1200 scrap
Out 600 ingots

For the alu solution if you build the pipes just like you would for the 3:8 coal gen water pipe it works great if mk2 pipes

[jade shore]

Right.. it's the water I'm getting stuck on... I can't figure out how to connect the pipes so it won't get jammed

[upbeat tide]

For water byproduct just pipe it directly into the slop solution refineries. Use valves on both ends

Thats my full build

The external water enters from the left side and byproduct from the right (mostly)

Use a valve at the external supply to limit the input to what is needed, but for initially getting it running just max it out then lower once things start up properly

[jade shore]

Maybe I compacted mine too much... I've got the output (with a pump on each) feeding back into the Sloppy line, but even with most of the extractors off, it still jams up.

[upbeat tide]

Maybe that helps a bit better

Pumps have no flow cpntrol, you want valves

Sounds like your over supplying

[jade shore]

it works fine until the scrap starts backing up, then the water backs up and the whole system stops

[upbeat tide]

You can see the valves in this screenshot

Yea never let scrap or the ingots stop. Overflow is mandatory

[jade shore]

drat... I somehow had a system figured out back in 3.0 that allowed total backup, and then it resumed without issue

[upbeat tide]

Yea 🙂 that would do it

[jade shore]

Didn't have the alternates we have now of course

[upbeat tide]

Thats easily fixable with hard drives 🙂

[jade shore]

well, I have them all now... made sure to get all the alternates before making the factories this time

[upbeat tide]

Well, hope you have some inspiration now

[thorn heron]

Thats epic

[upbeat tide]

Yea the fulll build makes 3060 aluminum ingots

The SCIM map is full, ingame screenshots are older/in progress

[thorn heron]

what do be "SCIM"

[upbeat tide]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com

The top down view I posted

[thorn heron]

ah, I see

[jade shore]

yeah.. the problem with refactoring the water is that it's built under water. Poor foresight on my part, I guess.

[jaunty tundra]

So how would I go about dividing 1 output into 5 equal outputs

[muted crypt]

take a splitter from the original line and split into two, then split each of those lines into three, and feed one of the now six outputs back into the original line with a merger before the first splitter - you'll be left with five equal outputs

[jaunty tundra]

aight ill try it out thanks

[loud heron]

Is it more resource efficient to make a fuel generator line out of fuel or turbofuel?

Not aware of any changes to the meta for fuel power

There are some sulfur nodes nearby, but I am not fully aware of the recipe

[bleak coral]

turbofuel is still many times better than fuel, even with the buff to fuel

[loud heron]

So I should build turbofuel

[bleak coral]

if you can, yeah

[loud heron]

Is there any particular recipe -> recipe meta?

I have not done turbofuel before

[bleak coral]

yeah heavy oil residue alt -> diluted fuel alt (either flavor, blender recipe is nicer) -> turbofuel for best oil

or use turbo blend fuel with the HOR -> diluted fuel part for better sulfur usage

[signal nimbus]

So, just to offer a counter-point to "turbofuel is amazing" (which it is): sulfur is one of the most limited resources on the map. By going turbofuel, you're slightly hurting your ability to go nuclear later on.

[loud heron]

I doubt Ill use these sulfur nodes in full effect

and if need be, I can probably make a train line dedicated to the pure traffic of sulfur across the map

I have only found 3 sulfur nodes and 1 is making Nobelisks and Gun Ammo

The other two Im guessing is for my Turbofuel line

[signal nimbus]

How many oil nodes would you like to use for your turbofuel powerplant?

[loud heron]

I have found a Pure + 2 Normal

so thats...what 480m3?

500 if the recipes play nicer

I can overclock the oil wells

[bleak coral]

you can get away with 300

it's that efficient

[loud heron]

I am currently producing 2425MW of coal power

factory is around 1700MW

[signal nimbus]

Definitely, but... unless the numbers have changed, You might be looking at quick math...

480 Sulfur, which is actually not that bad.

[bleak coral]

some comparisons/examples here: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Turbofuel#Gallery

[loud heron]

Im going off the wiki, but Im not sure if its up to date

[bleak coral]

yeah it's up to date

[loud heron]

It says 500 m3 of Crude and 333.34 Sulfur = 666.66 Turbofuel

[bleak coral]

with turbo blend fuel, yah

[signal nimbus]

Also my math is off, because I cut out 240 fuel for other production.

[loud heron]

I only have turbofuel and turbo heavy fuel alt atm

should I just go and explore more for hard drives?

[signal nimbus]

You're gonna need the diluted fuel stuff. And also Compacted Coal, but pretty sure you already have that.

[loud heron]

So:
Alternate: HOD -> Alternate: Diluted Packaged Fuel -> unpackage into Turbofuel?

[bleak coral]

turbofuel burns at 4.5/min, so 666.66 turbofuel is ~148.148 generators, or about 22GW

[bleak coral]

If you don't have blenders yet, yes

so you need the alternate HOR recipe and some form of the diluted fuel recipe

[loud heron]

Since I do not have the blender

should I just go with normal Turbo or THF?

[bleak coral]

up to you, the old recipe is just as efficient it's just more work to set up

[loud heron]

22GW is alot of power Ill never use for a while

[signal nimbus]

THF can work okay, especially if you want a quick setup.

[loud heron]

but not worrying about power sounds nice

[bleak coral]

yeah just getting the HOR alt and then doing a quick n' dirty turbofuel setup to get you to T7/T8 and blenders is not a bad plan

you can tear it down later and replace it with a nicer setup

[loud heron]

So the final recipe:
Alt HOR -> Diluted Packaged Fuel -> Unpackage -> Turbofuel?

[signal nimbus]

Heavy Oil Residue > Compacted Coal > Turbo Heavy Fuel if you start with 1350 Oil, 1440 Coal, and 1440 Sulfur can get you 48 GW.

[loud heron]

I definitely do not have 1350 oil

[signal nimbus]

...I think you have 1200, at least.

[bleak coral]

I was thinking more 300 oil into like 5k? I think

[loud heron]

With a Pure and 2 Normals?

[bleak coral]

just for a bit of a boost until blenders

[signal nimbus]

Pure can get 600.

[bleak coral]

from HOR -> THF

[loud heron]

Is it worth the extra power to Overclock the oil wells?

[bleak coral]

yeah, extractors and miners it's always worth it cause they're limited

[signal nimbus]

Normal is... 120*2.5=300.

So yeah, 1200.

[loud heron]

Yes

I guess I have 1200m3 oil

[signal nimbus]

You'd need like... a single impure more and you got what I just said. If you divide my numbers by three, so you only need a single pure sulfur line at 480, that would work for 16GW.

[bleak coral]

oh just 300 oil using HOR -> THF gives 320 turbofuel for about 10GW

I underestimated it by half

also uses 320 coal/sulfur

[loud heron]

Remind me, 10GW is....10,000MW?

[bleak coral]

yes

[loud heron]

Sheesh, cant imagine using all that

[signal nimbus]

I actually did a full analysis on Turbo Heavy Fuel vs. the normal version. Including world efficiency.

[bleak coral]

turbo heavy fuel technically has the best net power, but is the least resource efficient iirc from that analysis

[signal nimbus]

...not really.

[bleak coral]

turbo blend is like 1% off it though right?

[loud heron]

So lets just call it 1200m3 of oil

[signal nimbus]

...the gross is too great.

[loud heron]

I got a sulfur normal nearby, and one unknown sulfur next to it in gas which I cannot analyze atm

Im guessing sulfur only ever is pure or normal?

[signal nimbus]

Normal Turbofuel literally produces double the power of Turbo Heavy Fuel.

[bleak coral]

checking wiki mostly normals, and just 1 impure and 3 pure

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Sulfur#Resource_acquisition

there's also only 7 normals, quite rare

[loud heron]

So assuming i got 2 normals, itll be...600 sulfur with full overclocks

[signal nimbus]

But yeah, my Turbofuel design is not 100% efficient because I siphon off 10% of the fuel. It produces an even 20 GW with a net of 18.482 GW using the old packaged fuel variation. The same amount of oil turns into 10.667 GW gross with 10.165 GW net after the machines.

[loud heron]

So lets scratch off THF

[signal nimbus]

Not quite.

You might still consider it for the pure lag efficiency alone.

[loud heron]

Theres lag?

Figured Id just box off this fuel gen factory and the game would Room Cull it

[signal nimbus]

34 machines total plus 72 Fuel Power Plants will be WAY less laggy than 104 machines feeding 134 Fuel Power Plants.

[loud heron]

I guess thats true

[signal nimbus]

Mind you, that's for the baby plant using 300 oil. Any multiple of that becomes that much harder for a PC to run

[loud heron]

I just dont wanna remake this facility if possible

expanding it is one thing, refactoring for another recipe is another

Also are we lagging from CPU overhead or just GPU rendering these machines?

[signal nimbus]

At those numbers with that many materials? No idea.

[loud heron]

I got a 3080 and Im still holding 144 firmly

[signal nimbus]

...

CPU?

[loud heron]

Youre telling me fam, I dunno how laggy SF truly gets towards endgame, this is the furthest ive been

I was proud to make my first spaghetti computer line haha

[signal nimbus]

No, what's your CPU?

[loud heron]

Ah, 3700X

[signal nimbus]

...okay, hard to say. As long as this is a separate facility, not an issue.

[bleak coral]

oh yeah that's fine, mine barely needs to work

[loud heron]

I wont really be in this region anyways

[bleak coral]

it's mostly waiting on my poor old 970

my GPU is screaming for mercy while my CPU is sipping mai tais

[signal nimbus]

taps plays silently in the distance

XD Nah, you'll be fine. I'm on the same CPU with an RTX 2070 and just started running into lag in my very not-lag-optimized starter factory that's carried me to the end of Tier 6.

[loud heron]

So if im going with your less laggy THF option, whats the recipe chain?

[signal nimbus]

Heavy Oil Residue + Compacted Coal > Turbo Heavy Fuel

It's insanely simple.

[loud heron]

Roger

So...1200m3 of crude translates to how much sulfur and coal?

[signal nimbus]

1280 of each

[loud heron]

Oh god

I dunno if I can do that

[signal nimbus]

And you'll be rocking 42.667 GW

What's your starting location?

[loud heron]

Would you prefer a map?

[signal nimbus]

Um... yeah, that might help.

[signal nimbus]

Well, coal's not gonna be a problem.

[loud heron]

There are 4 sulfur nodes

we got a 780 max conveyer

Im guessing Im just gunna have to downclock the oil wells

[signal nimbus]

For normal sulfur nodes on... MK 2 miners?

[loud heron]

Yep

Tier 5-6

[signal nimbus]

K. So, 120 overclocks to 300 each. You're short 80 sulfur.

[loud heron]

Perhaps its better to use the other recipe that uses less sulfur?

[signal nimbus]

Up to you. I actually just normalized the design to your sulfur resources.

[loud heron]

Oh

[signal nimbus]

1125 oil

[loud heron]

I dont have blender fuel right

[signal nimbus]

No fuel needed.

[loud heron]

So 1125 oil to 1200 sulfur?

[signal nimbus]

You'll need two intermediate factories: 1125 Crude Oil turns into 1500 Heavy Oil Residue (sink the resin), and 1200 Sulfur and Coal turns into 1200 Compacted Coal.

Those two combine to make 1200 Turbofuel.

Which in turn feeds 266.67 Fuel Power Plants to make an even 40 GW.

[loud heron]

Instead of sinking the resin, I could make fabric

[signal nimbus]

Totally an option.

Or turn it into recycled rubber or plastic.

[loud heron]

awesome

[signal nimbus]

Oh, and you're up to 78 Refineries and 48 Assemblers with 267 generators.

[lone jay]

Can someone check my math please? I am turning diluted fuel into turbo fuel using the blender. I have 1050 oil, 35 Refineries making HOR, 18 Blenders and 12 water extractors overclocked to 300% on Mk 2 pipes.

[signal nimbus]

...if you can show the math, we can check it. I'm just seeing numbers, and numbers do not math to check make.

[loud heron]

thats like 30 times the buildings I have all game sheesh

This is gunna take a while to build lol

Just cause I dont have the resources to make 267 fuel generators

[iron prairie]

1. Water extractors can only be overclocked to 250%.
2. Overclocking water extractors makes me sad.
3. Classic turbofuel (refineries) or turbo blend fuel (blenders)?

[loud heron]

I got like 7 worth

[signal nimbus]

As someone who spent way too long building a compacted coal power plant... honest advice is to make the basic design simple and put a box around it. Won't take nearly as long as you think if that's what you do.

You can always decorate a box. You can't always get your sanity back.

[loud heron]

Oh no I meant I dont got enough motors to make 267 fuel gens

I make like 5 motors a min

[signal nimbus]

Ah... I mean I do too, but in the time it'll take you to get all of this set up and built for just the factory part you'll have a good stock.

[loud heron]

Ive actually been overwhelmed thinking about that stuff.
How much of a product should I be making?

[signal nimbus]

Three stacks is 10, each small storage container can hold 24 slots, that's 80 right there.

[loud heron]

I feel like i shouldnt just have 1 manufacturer making a computer or a heavy frame or a motor

[iron prairie]

My general rule-of-thumb is 10/min of everything unless it's something that's expensive/painful to make.

[signal nimbus]

^

[loud heron]

Thats...easy to think about I guess

[signal nimbus]

Good rule of thumb. A single impure iron node with a single smelter/constructor setup for iron plates and iron rods is WAY more than sufficient.

And those get used everywhere.

[loud heron]

Im just not always sure if the local nodes can support 10 of everything, and how best to split said resources

Havent seen an impure iron node in ever, and Im guessing Id only ever use it for local resupplying of basic construction

[signal nimbus]

Being real? You play the game, you make mistakes, you learn from those mistakes, and you get better.

[loud heron]

True, but there comes a point every Satisfactory update where I just go "I dont think I can do this on my own, its too much to think about" and I put the game down for months until next update

[signal nimbus]

Oh, I know the feels.

[iron prairie]

What Hoplite said. I use satisfactorytools.com to plan how much I need, but there's a lot of trial-and-error.

[signal nimbus]

Even with that.

[loud heron]

i tried satisfactory calculator

and the factory design it suggests for certain items becomes HUGE

[iron prairie]

Satisfactory calculator is better for its map than actual factory calculations.

[signal nimbus]

If you want a super-efficient factory, start with the end product. If you want ease of construction, start with what resources you want to dedicate to the design.

[iron prairie]

I will say, however, that factories for certain items become HUGE because, well... some advanced stuff is expensive.

[bleak coral]

satisfactory calculator can't even do as big of calculations as tools, cause it wastes proccesing power/time on trying to do the logistics

I tried to do my 56ppm HMF factory on it and it either froze or wasn't right in the recipes it chose

[signal nimbus]

Yeah... and the numbers it gives are just... weird sometimes.

[bleak coral]

if it didn't freeze it took like 5 - 10 minutes to calculate it

tools will do that one in seconds

[loud heron]

So use satisfactorytools, gotcha

Im assuming its updated to 4.0's balance changes

[bleak coral]

yeah, gotta go to the U4 site specifically though, he hasn't merged them yet

just change the version in the upper right corner

[iron prairie]

Greeny does a good job keeping it up-to-date, though for some reason, he's keeping U3 as the "live" version, so go to https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[loud heron]

Yep, this looks good, the map is simple until realize this thing says "20 constructors for one step"

These factories are gunna be big arent they

[bleak coral]

he probably just needs to get the free time to figure out how not to kill a bunch of peoples' tabs when he merges the sites

[signal nimbus]

...to be fair, building giant freaking factories is kind of what we're generally here for.

[loud heron]

Ive never done such megafactories before

[signal nimbus]

...what you've been talking about doesn't qualify.

It's not a small factory, but it's not a megafactory.

[loud heron]

Most complicated thing Ive done by myself is a singular Heavy Modular Frame Factory

[lone jay]

I overclocked all 33 of my coal gens by 1 shard. It gave me an extra few hundred MW

[loud heron]

and that thing is the size of a walmart

[iron prairie]

I mean, my current project involves 100+ refineries, 94+ constructors, and dozens of other buildings, and it's not even my final form: it's just what I plan to use to finish off T5-T6 and be ready for T7-T8.

[loud heron]

Sheesh

I cant imagine hoarding enough stock or even finding the real estate to make any factory housing more than like...20 machines

[iron prairie]

Be careful with that. That "extra few hundred MW" may wind up being 0 extra megawatts if you aren't providing enough coal/water.

[signal nimbus]

...so you know, feeding it manually for T6 > T7 actually works pretty decently. As long as you have the Steel Beams, anyway.

[iron prairie]

The answer can be summed up as "multistory factories with many, many, many, many, many foundations".

[iron prairie]

That would be the easy way, yes.

[loud heron]

Im also guessing I should probably raise my factories off the dune floor to properly make foundations without running into a sand mountain lol

[signal nimbus]

My intention is always the easy way. Because I'm lazy with random bursts of energy.

Yes.

[bleak coral]

I'm not-lazy, but with large periods of downtime: #screenshots message

[loud heron]

Oh, before we go, one more thing.
How do I make a train rail junction?

These rails just kinda snake like conveyer belts

[bleak coral]

hard to get myself to sit down multiple days in a row doing stuff, but I'll totally burn 8 hours on a factory in a day

[iron prairie]

Y-junctions are relatively simple: you just lay down one side, then connect the other side of the Y to a snapping point.

[loud heron]

it just keeps saying its too sharp of a turn

Oh, I think I got it

So the rails have hidden segments I can branch from, and if I make the Y, it generates a junction switch

[iron prairie]

Yep. Do note that trains can't curve too sharply.

[vast jungle]

Practice 45° turns... They are quite easy on foundations and work much better

[loud heron]

https://puu.sh/HA8fl/81a96bc678.jpg

Should this have a switch on it

[vast jungle]

3x3 often had issues for 90°, but always work for two 45° pieces

[loud heron]

Oh the switch is on theother side

[vast jungle]

I would guess you didn't not hit

[loud heron]

No im good now, https://puu.sh/HA8gQ/1004eb4036.jpg

Turns out the switch is on the left side

Ive also been told that automated trains with a time table will automatically choose the right track on a junction to get to the base?

[lone jay]

For sanity sake I know the Diluted Fuel recipe called for 28 blenders but I didn't feel like balancing those pipes 5 ways. So I made 3 rows of 6 blenders for 18 and the math says they need 100 water per minute so 1800 total 1800/¹⁰⁰ is 18 so that means if I wanted to set the speed of the extractors that's 1800/¹² which is 150 clock speed per extractor.

[vast jungle]

Yes

[loud heron]

Would it be shameful of me to use a train to ship sulfur to the compacted coal factory for my future Turbofuel generators?

I dunno where we draw the line for "lets make a train" and "fuck trains, just make a long conveyer"

[iron prairie]

Yes, though I do not recommend having more than two rails per junction (i.e., rather than having 3 rails snap to the same point, have two Y junctions at different snap points).

[vast jungle]

I used my first train exactly for this .. one to bring coal, the other to bring sulfur

[signal nimbus]

Nope. Great idea as long as you confirm that it ships as much as you expect when you expect it to be there.

[iron prairie]

As to trains vs. conveyors, here is the thing.
The advantage of trains is that they're modestly simpler to set up, and choo.
The advantage of conveyors is everything else.

[loud heron]

Im guessing as long as the train has ample speed and capacity, I should be fine

[signal nimbus]

Mhm.

[loud heron]

as long as the train arrives fast enough to restock said sulfur and coal

[signal nimbus]

And trains have a lag advantage, apparently.

Less to draw with the GPU.

[loud heron]

Do trains work in back-and-forth if I put two engines on each end?

[signal nimbus]

Yep.

[loud heron]

Thats siiiick

[vast jungle]

Just add a ISC to reach freight terminal to buffer the loading/unloading time

[signal nimbus]

If they face opposite directions.

[loud heron]

ISC?

[iron prairie]

Industrial Storage Container.

[wind spade]

the reason being that I need to figure out a way to move production lines between versions

[iron prairie]

Freight platforms cease all belt/pipe activity during the 25 second train load/unload animations.

[loud heron]

What happens if the unloading station is full of a material? will the train just drop off wwhatever it can and leave?

[wind spade]

if it's full it can't drop off anything 😛

[iron prairie]

Trains will load or unload partial loads as necessary.

[loud heron]

Oh, so it doesnt send anything in or out until that 25 animation period is over>

[vast jungle]

I shared all my factory links with myself and edited the u4 in front of them... Worked well

[wind spade]

until you start using nitrogen 🤷‍♂️

[lone jay]

Henning did you say yes to me?

[iron prairie]

Yep. So, production lines connected directly to freight platforms can have hiccups during train load/unload animations, so the solution is to buffer with an ISC or industrial fluid buffer.

[vast jungle]

From U3 to u4 should be no problem...😆

[wind spade]

wrong ping? 😄

[loud heron]

I have also heard its more efficient to package liquids and ship em with freight rather than a liquid tank container

is this true?

[iron prairie]

Ahahaha no.

[vast jungle]

Was about the trains

[iron prairie]

There's two issues with packaging fluids:

1. It doesn't actually save you any train time, as you have to ship the empty canisters back anyways.
2. Packagers are silly expensive to run.

[vast jungle]

No except for nitrogen(maybe)

[loud heron]

So just deal with liquid tanks, gotcha

[lone jay]

No about my extractor question

My next question is how do I figure out how many fuel generators I need to build?

[iron prairie]

Each fuel generator runs through either 4.5 turbofuel/min or 12 regular fuel/min.

[vast jungle]

Use the power of division. 😉 All fuel generators tell you how much they want, so just divide the total fuel by this number

[lone jay]

I'm about over manually placing foundations. I bet I've placed 15k at my turbo fuel setup the last 3 days

[vast jungle]

And don't forget that SF had an intake calculator

[vast jungle]

Quickest method seems to be the "run along the edge"method

[bleak coral]

or 12 biofuel/min

[lone jay]

What is the keybind for that calculator in game

[bleak coral]

it's the codex, so N

[loud heron]

Err, if I run an end to end train with cargo...where do I place the train station?

[bleak coral]

it reads right to left though, so be generous with your parenthesis if you do anything that's more than one step

[loud heron]

At the end the train stops at?

if the train is
T-C-C-T (T train, C cargo)
Should the stations look like
S-C-C-------------------C-C-S?

[bleak coral]

yes

and the trains and stations should be:

<--->

in their direction

[loud heron]

Do stations have an orientation?

Friend built this initial train for me, so I dunno

[loud heron]

Not understanding this part

[signal nimbus]

I think so. There's an arrow.

[loud heron]

Oooh

Okay, so if its end to end, the station's direction is facing the end

gotcha

[lone jay]

Can you build omnidirectional trains on a single track?

[loud heron]

Omnidirectional?

They only go either back and forth or in a loop

so Im guessing a single track means itll only operate End to End

[lone jay]

Sorry bad word usage. Are the trains smart enough to go forward to the station pick up and then drive back on the same track to the hub

[loud heron]

hub?

[exotic swallow]

yes just put a loco at each end

[loud heron]

Oh

Yeah if youre just looking for a line track (not a circle track) you just need 2 engines

[lone jay]

That seems simpler to build and not as taxing on the computer

[loud heron]

and the train station itself should be at the ends of each destination

[loud heron]

If only this could be my house to my local 7-11

[bitter oar]

how do you debug a single track train with two engines? I got one track end to end, it transfers power so I know its connected. it is placed on the ground if that matters. still, when I try to run it it will not move (not even with a small push)

[loud heron]

Got an image?

[bitter oar]

its a long track.. from the south of the map to the east. or do you want a map ?

[loud heron]

Hmm

Are the train stations properly rotated?

They should point outwards towards the ends of the rails

[bitter oar]

I think I tried all combinations , but I'll try again.. the track itself could not be a problem ?

[loud heron]

You can always remake it if you think its a problem

But as long as the two stations show up in the trainstation time table

The track should be fine

[bitter oar]

ah good, thanks

[vast jungle]

yes, thats a nice trick... if you have multiple "independent" train networks (not connected), only the connected railway stations show up... so if they don't show up, they are not connected

[loud heron]

Which reminds me

What is the train network meta?
A global loop with junctions for stations?

Or more of a web that go from a central hub and outwards to collect supplies and back?

Or just kinda disjointed and specialized for certain deliveries

[vast jungle]

it depends on what you like...

I am using my train network to connect ALL factories... so I have a single huge network with lots of switches that goes from everywhere to everywhere...
but I know people who like to build independent train networks for every point2point connection

both works... there is no "train meta" in Satisfactory, just multiple options with their own pro's and con's

which is I think the BEST thing about Satisfactory... there is no single "best" way to do it right...

[loud heron]

I suppose. Like I think we said, there's no issue with them colliding iirc

They just phase through each other on their way

[bitter oar]

ok.. it was actually my fault he he.. I translated the autopilot on/off wrong. it works now 🙂

[old ember]

I realise this may open a can of worms - what do people consider the "best" way to mass produce circuit boards?

Looking at it, it seems like a toss up between the standard recipe and Elecrode Circuit Board - since caterium and silica are more useful in other parts of the production chain, and are more limited resoures

But I'd be curious what everyone's thoughts are.

[vast jungle]

It depends on which resources you need the most elsewhere...
I use "Silicon Circuit Boards" because it was a good idea at the time I built the factory... but if you are looking for more quartz, the other Alts can give you a nice option

Electrode Circuit board looks nice because it uses "only oil", but its quite slow to produce... so the questions are
a) can you afford all the oil
b) how much Assemblers you want to build

[old ember]

Hmmmm. Fair point.

On the surface it looks like the standard recipe (combined with pure recipes, steamed sheets and the recycled plastic loop) would be the best one to go for.

[vast jungle]

You can use Silica for Aluminium Ingot production... if you plan to do this I would NOT use Silicon Circuit Board...

But I decided to use "Pure Aluminium Ingot", so I have Silica to spend...

[old ember]

Aye, I toyed with that, but decided to split the quartz between Aluminium and crystal oscillators.

[vast jungle]

(I have to admin, Silicone Circuit Boards are also Copper hungry)

[old ember]

That's slightly less of a concern, with the mount of copper on the maps and the various alts - but worth noting.

By the way, not trying to shoot down anything you're saying. This is really helpful 💪

[vast jungle]

I also liked Silicone Circuit Board, because it has one input the same as AI-Limiter...

When I built my "Electronics Factory" (AI-Limiter, Caterium Computer, Silicone Circuit Boards and Silicone-Highspeed-Connectors), I only needed four types of inputs

[old ember]

Oh! Nice

[vast jungle]

I think the best thing about Satisfactory is that there is no "BIG META"... there is no "best way", there are only a lot of tradeoffs, some better, some worse... but most of them are still good, depending on the situation

[old ember]

I'm plan on making the AI limiters with the crystal oscillators - but that's really neat.

[vast jungle]

there is no alternative Recipe for AI Limiters

[fringe crow]

At 270 Steel /min,

How would you folks go about splitting it between Pipes and Beams?

[vast jungle]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/AI_Limiter

[old ember]

completely, that's why I put "best" in quotes. It's always interesting to hear how others think about the game, because there's so many different approaches.

[vast jungle]

depends on the Alternate Recipes for other stuff... if you go for things with "Encased Industrial Pipes", you will need A LOT pipes

[old ember]

No, but the crystal oscillator alt uses AI limiters.

[fringe crow]

I do have it, but I meant in general.

I wonder if I can come up with a design so that once storage is full of one thing, it'll swap the output to the other.. Hmm

[vast jungle]

there is no good "in general" split... start with a small production for both... when you decide what to use them for, expand accordingly

[vast jungle]

yes, I am working on this one too... I am in the process extending my "AI Limiter tower" from 4 to 12 Assemblers for this 😉

@fringe crow I would guess when you get more Alternate Recipes, you will need more pipes than beams

[fringe crow]

I mean Pipes are already 25 More a min than Beams at the end of the day. Which is nice.