math-and-meta

[keen flame]

lowkey this is why I built my own calculator... xD

no offense to greeny lol

[daring sonnet]

there's was no problem with the calculator, but with my line of thought

I should've seen that

[keen flame]

no, it's a flaw in the calculator. calculator isn't set up properly yet to handle uranium waste

[frosty owl]

Always check your inputs, at least the most important ones :P

[bleak coral]

why not both?

😛

[keen flame]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jGUXDD5jmpozKs5YRKYCA0N0E71vEr0GayePjiblbxc/edit?usp=sharing
This is the calculator I've been working on if anyone wants to try it! Just make a personal copy

I still need to make some updates to it (formatting and recipe ordering is a bit wonky, and it's not set up for fuel or coal power) but it should be set up to handle plutonium/all recipes should be up to date

[frosty owl]

!ban RowanTheDragon [self-promotion]

[keen flame]

Oh no, how dare I make a community resource

the tragedy

[topaz hedge]

tears will be shed

[wind spade]

yeah be prepared to be blamed for any mistake you make but not a single helpful feedback 😛

[keen flame]

oh of course 😛

Right now there's a lot of oddities with the sheet that I'm fixing up since I built it for personal use originally

[wind spade]

that's how my tool started as well 🤷‍♂️

[topaz hedge]

i try not to blame greenie, unless it's rounding errors.. then give him hell

[daring sonnet]

wow, I just blamed myself, not the calculator... don't know if it was directed at me or not... just saying

[keen flame]

I have a weird as hell rounding error in mine that I can't track down. for some reason it's spitting out something like 7*10^-15 instead of 0, like it should be

[frosty owl]

I don't blame greeny, unless we're blaming greeny. Then I'm all down for blaming greeny

[wind spade]

[topaz hedge]

I think we've all complained at one point or another :3

[keen flame]

lmao. I should clarify I'm not blaming greeny, I'm just saying the calculator has a bug 😛

[frosty owl]

#praise_greeny

[bleak coral]

when in doubt blame floating point imprecision 😛

[keen flame]

I know enough about development to know that bugs just happen

[wind spade]

hey my tool produces extra 0.03 of some random stuff at random places

[bleak coral]

^

[wind spade]

so 10^-15 is still good

[keen flame]

See that one 0 that's red? That should be exactly 0 xD

[wind spade]

that's why you never use = 0

but ABS(x) < 10^-10

[topaz hedge]

I'm pretty sure satisfactory itself has rounding errors is game too. it would be nice if they all just... rounded themselves out

[keen flame]

Yeah I'm updating the master copy to check for < -.000000001 or something

[frosty owl]

Serious point: there probably is a way to set up your logistics so that errors DO balance themselves out

[keen flame]

here's the part that's weird: it shouldn't be a floating point issue, because the bugged calculations are only using decimals out to like...a single place

[wind spade]

don't forget ABS 🙂

[wind spade]

that doesn't matter bcs computers don't know how to store precise floating points 😛

[topaz hedge]

I dunno, I've pretty much given up on satisfactory things world exactly as the math says it should

[keen flame]

what would I be using absolute for? I'm a little brainfogged so functioning a little slow XD

[frosty owl]

That's the point

[keen flame]

oh I see it

That makes sense. I can update that in a bit

[wind spade]

[wind spade]

so that you check for +- 0.0001

[topaz hedge]

meanwhile here i am.. I can't excel enough to work these sheets D:

[keen flame]

yep, brain finally turned itself on xD

[bleak coral]

the only precise decimals in computers is fixed point, which is just integers with some extra information

[keen flame]

To be fair, making this sheet actually work, and making it work cleanly, involved some combination of occult rituals and satanic magic

[frosty owl]

Remember to sink the excess fog before it clogs up again :P
||OK I'm done, I fear the bammer||

[keen flame]

https://i.imgur.com/6Sh8csf.gif

[topaz hedge]

it's not you, your sheet looks fine. I just.. was never taught how to work these things. and never needed them in my life.

[keen flame]

no that's what I'm saying - the complex sheets can be absolutely arcane even for people who are familiar with them xD

[ripe dawn]

I think this works?

[marble coral]

jesus christ

[ripe dawn]

your the one who asked for a 7 to 13 splitter 😄

but yes, also my reaction!

[marble coral]

I didnt expect it to be that complicated

[bleak coral]

it does look more compact than if you do out to 20ths as needed and merged lines

[ripe dawn]

if you have a particular belt demand for one of the lines (e.g. it's exactly 1/4th of a 60 belt) then perhaps belt overflow would help

Interestingly I think you can build that really compact, it only needs to be 4 splitters (2 foundations) widem 5 splitters long and 3 splitters high

[topaz hedge]

Dunno. did need one up pull exactly 9/min crystal osc off a 45/min belt

[ripe dawn]

nope, my bad, 5 splitters wide, the loop back in the middle forces an extra aisle

[frosty owl]

That's just 1/5

[pulsar edge]

my method would be to just hook up an overflow smart splitter, and turn the 6.5 machine on once the 3.5 is full, but clearly ppl here have already provided better solutions

[naive ginkgo]

looks like heatsink points got changed a bit. not sure how i edit that in the wiki, but i think this belongs in here

[keen flame]

So, opinions: Classic Battery vs regular Battery?
Seems like Classic Battery reduces Sulfur and Bauxite usage in exchange for oil

[sand garnet]

Id trust our lord and mathematical savior greeny with https://satisfactorytools.com/production

whatever his tool chooses, so shall it be.

[strong pecan]

question re: hypertube launchers, does anyone have a formula with height adjustment? the one on wiki only provides distance, i assume at same height of takeoff and landing

[frosty owl]

The alt also saves you a lot of fluid headaches
-No need to turn sulfur into acid
-No need for nitrogen
-No water byproduct to deal with
-Need 4 resources instead of 3 and more oil

[keen flame]

Yep I'm looking at it and I think the alt is just way better overall. Oil is the least concerning of the bottlenecks, especially with our increased amount in U4, so I don't mind using a bit to stretch out that sulfur much further

Trying to make the biggest possible drone fleet xD

I'm also hurting my brain trying to figure out recycled rubber/plastic loops again -.-

[frosty owl]

I think the best use of oil late-game is: wherever it's handy 😆

[keen flame]

basically... xD

I'm finally doing my full factory calculations

[frosty owl]

Turning oil into HOR can be a good start regardless. Then just use as much HOR for rubber/plastic things as you want, leave the rest for other things
All the resin can be used to kickstart the recycled setups ^^

[keen flame]

I'm basically doing, in priority:
-absolute maximum of any "minimum processing" resource (maximum pure iron ingot, etc)
-Maximum Uranium, sink plutonium
-Maximum batteries (working on this)
-Baseline production of every item
-Figure out leftovers
-Maximize for sink points

[frosty owl]

Though, I prefer to have simple 300 oil - > 200 plastic/rubber setups and deal with the resin separately

[keen flame]

Basically what I'm doing for oil is just turning it all into HOR, making the coke I need for aluminum, and then turning the rest into fuel to use for rubber/plastic

I'm building under the assumption that uranium power will be enough - I'll be reassessing down the line, I'm going as far as I can until I hit a roadblock

[icy chasm]

They buffed plutonium fuel rods to make them 4x better, sinking plutonium isn't worth it

[keen flame]

Notably, this gives me about 42,888 Plastic/Rubber to work with )interchangeable) not counting the rubber I'm making from polymer to start the recycling loop

[keen flame]

Sinking rods gets rid of the waste, it's 100% worth it

Trust me, I'm fully aware of exactly how much power plutonium can generate.... stares at giant threads and spreadsheets XD

[icy chasm]

Well, I don't know, that was just my opinion on things, I would like to send my waste into the far corner of the rockey desert, no one or nothings going there ever

[frosty owl]

I think you can ignore the maximizing of ingots. Many of them are most compressed in ore form, so it's more convenient/clever to turn them into ingots only around your main production (Eg: have coated plates assemblers feeding directly from pure iron refineries with OC, then feed that into reinf plates and so on until it's inconvenient to bring more materials at that place and you're satisfied with the "compression ratio" of your inputs compared to your final output)

[keen flame]

I think you misunderstood XD I'm planning this as an overall view of "how much can I use" - it doesn't matter where I'm processing them, it matters that I'm using "Pure Iron Ingot" instead of the regular recipe, since I have more iron ingots to work with that way

The actual breakdown of where everything is being made is totally separate

[frosty owl]

If you go for max production, you'll probably have to tap into plutonium
The current max power allows for (VERY RAUGHLY) a max production of everything while still having machines run over 120%

[keen flame]

I'm assuming there's a fair chance of that, however I was able to maximize production for under 400GW in U3 (using a lot of oil for fuel, mind you)

so I'm pretty confident that the ~630GW I have access to now will be plenty to get a solid baseline, and then I can adjust/underclock as needed

[frosty owl]

I don't think you can compare power needs with U3
Not only we have more resources to process in total, we have more steps for items that in U3 were considered "final tier" and some of these steps require humongous amount of energy (accelerators)

Also, FPS wise you want to overclock rather than underclock, that's for sure

[keen flame]

I ean, yeah, that's why I said "solid baseline" XD I need to have my control test before I start making adjustments to match the actual available power

I also need to leave a lot open for infrastructure. Planning something like 100GW at least for drones and trains

[frosty owl]

For reference, a calculation I run for space elevator parts being made at 60/min (for the ones you need less off) and 120/min (for the ones you need more of) + processing for max uranium and plutonium spit out an estimate of ~500 GW without the accelerators

And that still had raw resources left over

[iron prairie]

One simple way to do it is with output recycling and smart splitters.

[keen flame]

that's plenty of wiggle room ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[frosty owl]

Not without plutonium clearly, though xD

Accelerators can push that to 600 GW easily

[iron prairie]

How I did it:
I have one industrial storage of rubber, feeding recycled plastic. The output plastic gets merged, and hits a splitter. Normal priority goes to the industrial storage feeding the recycled rubber refineries, and overflow goes to another splitter.

The second splitter then has normal priority to the output bin, and overflow to an AWESOME sink.

[keen flame]

the bigger problem is that I had to remember some of my calculus xD

[iron prairie]

That is actually relatively simple IMO.

50/50 refineries have a 2:1:1 ratio of input fuel to output plastic & rubber.

Each rubber refinery converted to plastic then increases plastic yield by 90/min while decreasing rubber yield by 90/min.

[keen flame]

uhhhhh not quite. the actual ratio is something like 2:3 fuel:output

[iron prairie]

(alternately: 2x plastic + 1x rubber refinery has a net 90 fuel -> 90 plastic, and 1x plastic + 2x rubber has a net 90 fuel -> 90 rubber)

Double-check. Because I'm 99% sure it's a 1:1 ratio of fuel to total plastic+rubber (ignoring residual rubber)

[frosty owl]

When I need to do things quickly, I have the plastic and rubber refineries in 2 rows in front of each other, split by half
First rubber/plastic half is connected to the inputs (passing through a storage), the other half goes to the factory's output/sink. To start the system, just load rubber/plastic in the storages

[keen flame]

brain is moving slow so taking me a sec to explain, but core problem is:
60 rubber costs 30 fuel and 30 plastic. that 30 plastic costs 15 fuel and 15 rubber. that 15 rubber costs 7.5 plastic and 7.5 fuel, and so on

so the actual fuel niput required to get 60 rubber is 40 fuel, not 30, as that's where the function graph approaches infinity

[frosty owl]

Just think about it this way: you make as much rubber/plastic as the half of the fuel you can get out of your HOR. As simple as that

Then to that you can add the rubber/plastic from the resin

[keen flame]

No? You can make way more than that. recycled loops are "step-up" loops so you have higher output than input

[iron prairie]

... No, it actually approaches 60 fuel.

A vastly simpler way of looking at it comes from chemistry.

30 plastic + 30 fuel -> 60 rubber
30 rubber + 30 fuel -> 60 plastic
Sum:
30 plastic + 30 rubber + 60 fuel -> 60 rubber + 60 plastic
Simplify:
60 fuel -> 30 rubber + 30 plastic

[keen flame]

But are you accounting for the fact that the plastic and rubber on the elft half of the equation also consume fuel? that's the thing

[frosty owl]

Duh, but that's because you can make a lot of fuel from HOR (double the amount) :P
Eg: have 300 oil, make 400 HOR. That is worth 800 fuel or 200 plastic and 200 rubber (excluding the resin)
Extension: 800 fuel become 400 plastic 400 rubber. But you need HALF of that to feed the system, so the output is 200/200, half the input fuel/min or just as much as the HOR if you prefer

And yes, this is including the amount of rubber/plastic used to feed the system itself

[iron prairie]

Yes. Because you're taking away output from the right hand side.

You are doing some goofy calculus, and making a mistake in your assumptions about the problem setup.

Greeny's tool agrees with the 1:1 ratio:
https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=J7ZGcyDKtz65hYwuNk73

[keen flame]

Ok no, I figured out where the error was XD gimme a moment

[frosty owl]

You forgot to sink the excess fog again

[keen flame]

So the calculus still matters for determing how many iterations of the recipe you actually need (which is the core issue I need to solve)

[iron prairie]

One. Just loop back output from the recycled rubber to feed recycled plastic, and output from recycled plastic to feed recycled rubber.

[frosty owl]

I think the iterative way is the worst one to approach the issue, so Imma leave it to the experts and head out 😅

[iron prairie]

This is way simpler than you think it is.

[frosty owl]

Note: I edited one of my messages earlier to make the example clearer, Rowan

[keen flame]

Ok I fixed my numbers and now I'm seeing the 1:1, I have no idea where my brain was at -.-

I feel like trying to do math while sick is probably a bad idea xd

[iron prairie]

As a minor bonus, you also get 1 residual rubber per 8 fuel: you wind up with 1 crude oil to 3 output.

The whole setup produces a quadrilateral of output space with corners at 0:1:8 plastic:rubber:fuel, 2:0:7, 0:9:0 and 9:0:0.

(per 3 input crude oil)

[keen flame]

oh I think I figured out where my error was in the calculus. Just no idea how to explain it in text right now xD

[oblique hollow]

i cant believe it but i actually solved a flow problem with a Flow Equalizer

[frosty owl]

Proof or it never happened

[keen flame]

something something didn't account for leftover plastic/rubber and actual ratio was approaching 1:2 or something' (and not 2:3)

[oblique hollow]

My Refineries: need exactly 420 /min
my 3 extractors set to 420: "430 - 450, take it or leave"

[frosty owl]

Funny choice of numbers but... Go on ^^

[iron prairie]

$5 on bauxite refinement.

[oblique hollow]

peak design

it was bauxite indeed

[keen flame]

oh god. anyone have the resource numbers for the three turbo motor variants?

I just do not feel like doing that math right now XD

[oblique hollow]

ok, water extractors really dont output what they show

[frosty owl]

Where the hell do those vertical pipes go?? XD

[oblique hollow]

they come from the upper refineries. feedback water

[frosty owl]

Btw, do you think the equalizer is worth the hassle compared to placing a single buffer between extractors and refineries and let it fill to half before turning the refineries on?

[oblique hollow]

i actually had a normal buffer that kept messing with my flow cuz "mimimi im a wittle buffer i need head lift"

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I can see that happening if you don't have space for horizontal pipes/pumps around it...

[oblique hollow]

equalizers are basically restrained buffers

Interpolators are also possible but they dont like having input drop out

[oblique hollow]

alright, found the problem why my extractors were backing up

i only needed 400 water / min

Damn it Mark !

[frosty owl]

[frosty owl]

So the equilizer provided the correct flow, until the buffer got full?

[oblique hollow]

pretty much. equalizer was set wrong too (to 420)
now its set to 400 too and all works fine

[frosty owl]

So... It was all because you wanted to push a 420 joke too far :smh:

[topaz hedge]

it was the most complicated thing i've never done with splitters and mergers yet. I was very proud of myself lol

[frosty owl]

Balancing feels good <3

[upbeat tide]

So, I was thinking of a max aluminum build. If I use sloppy + electrode scrap + pure I will get 9780 total ingots. If I drop pure, it jumps to 13040 but astronomical amount of silica needed

[frosty owl]

What if you drop the sloppy too to get some of that silica back?

[upbeat tide]

Without slop mac is 10866

Still needs 9k+ silica

[frosty owl]

Well, save 4k silica for 1k extra allu ingots. Seems reasonable

[upbeat tide]

Im not gonna bother to show instant scrap, as its the same max of 13040

Welll, 4.7k raw quarts is almost half map total

Instant scrap

[frosty owl]

It's all about how much quartz or sulfur you can yeld to the process

[upbeat tide]

Yup

So if you want to divulge silica or sulfur from the process entirely, its a 33% reduction

[frosty owl]

With how you seem to set things up, you're probably safer using the sulfur and saving on quartz as much as possible though
You'll need tons of HSC and Oscyllators after all

[upbeat tide]

Oh 1200 raw quarts is marked for crystal osscilators for sure.

I did raze my build, but do plan to get that back up and running

And yea...high speed connectors eat alot of silica

Ill actually have to calculate left over sulfur. Im gonna use 1200 for a 2400 TF build, 600 at least for batteries, and nuclear which I havent calculated yet

And id like to automate munitions, may have another 600 go for that

Yup instant scrap wont work

My sulfur plans will use 6012 sulfur and only 6840 on map

1200 - TF
600 - black powder
600 - batteries
2100 - uranium fuel rods
1512 - plutonium rods

[frosty owl]

600 for black powder seems overkill by a large margin, imo

I mean, if you can spare it...

[upbeat tide]

Maybe but still

Actually may increase to 1200 for batteries

[bleak coral]

I'm kinda disappointed sloppy is just so damn bauxite efficient that neither of the recipes that also make silicon seem worth it.

Like it feels like something that makes it simpler shouldn't also be the most efficient thing for making ingots.

[upbeat tide]

But the silica tradeoff is substancial. It kinda forces you into using pure alu, which is a 33% penalty

[bleak coral]

You can always introduce more silica to make it better, that's a recipe neutral multiplier.

[topaz hedge]

33% or bauxite in = al out with pure ingot

[bleak coral]

The question is does the extra silica from the other recipes make up for less alumina solution, and the answer is no

[upbeat tide]

Nah not really

And using classic battery means no diverting alu solution too

[bleak coral]

but classic battery uses the manufacturer, the blender is cooler

[topaz hedge]

classic >blender

eventhough I'm using the blender for mine.. I don't like byproducts.

[upbeat tide]

Classic seems to use alot less alu products too

Gonna have to check that tho

Yea classic uses about half less bauxite

[topaz hedge]

I would've used it if I had extra copper

[fierce ruin]

some one didn't use quickwire CBs 🙃

[topaz hedge]

didn't have the caterium for them.

it was already used :3

[fierce ruin]

Would it be more efficient to use the fluid platform or freight platform? Btw I just got trains so I have zero idea which one would be more efficient.

[bleak coral]

fluid, freight means you have to spend the extra energy packaging and unpackaging it

[fierce ruin]

Ah. Appreciate it.

[bleak coral]

might not hold up for nitrogen, cause it compress 4x when packaged

so you might or might not cut out enough cars to reduce engines and save energy, depends on the route and amount

and train

[fierce ruin]

What I'm planning on doing is moving oil from a really horrible area (bad for building and I hate floating factories) out to an open area (probably edge of map.).

[bleak coral]

yeah for oil just doing fluids is probably better

[fierce ruin]

Is there an app/webpage tool to plan out what you are doing?

[frosty owl]

Quite a few

[fierce ruin]

Great thanks 🙂

[tender palm]

could anyone please help with my crude oil pipes im having abit of difficulty thanks in advance please msg me if you can helo

[upbeat hinge]

Balancing recycled plastic/rubber cycle is a pain 😛

[topaz hedge]

if you do it right it's the easiest thing in the world...

if you're having issues, then you ain't doin it right 😛

[upbeat hinge]

I know my numbers are right, but some tweaking to my splits and merges seemed to have improved my situation 😛

[topaz hedge]

Want the protip? Don't treat recycled plastic and rubber as one factory. and leave residual rubber/plastic out of the loop. build one set of refineries that output plastic, or rubber but not both. doing it this way lets you: not have to sink any of the output (if built the otherway, a backup on one output will cause the other to suffer) it completely removes the "loop" and you can process poly resin seperately

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, already did that. This was just fuel to plastic/rubber setup (the resin goes off to it's own section)

I'm not 100% sure what the issue was, but definitely had something to do with my manifolds and how they split and where they went.

Some adjusting seems to have everything running at 100% now

[topaz hedge]

it hurts me when I see people building recycled setups that do both.. I did it once and had nothing but issues D:

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, I've just been sinking the resin till I got the recycle loop working. Just to keep everything running

[topaz hedge]

Yay. I'm still sinking resin on my setup.. until it's needed or has a good use it will all be sunk

[topaz hedge]

oh wait wtf

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, I haven't quite scaled up to that yet 😛

This layer was just doing 900 rubber/plastic (well 700 rubber w/o the resin)

[topaz hedge]

There

yeah, you don't really need that much I don't think. this was built before u4 and i was expecting it to go ham on oil... nope lol

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, 900 of each should cover me for a while.

And I can just duplicate the layout on another floor if I need more of something

[topaz hedge]

This is 4 "units" each one produces 480 rubber or plastic (they're switchable, just have to empty the belts and machines)

[upbeat hinge]

Smart, I didn't think I would run into a challenge, so I didn't consider that option

I might do something like that for the upper floors when I come back

much more repeatable that way

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, duplication is good. you might decide you want to make something like. a bunch of acus or assembly directors and need rubber cable

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, I'll have to see where I'm at when I get to the final parts

[topaz hedge]

rubber cable only worth it if you plan on building like.. 10+ assembly directors when the cable requires shoot up into the several thousands

besides that, building your rubber/plastic setup as it's own little.. or big self contained factory, and outputting via train is definitely the way to go.

[upbeat hinge]

I don't have the blender yet either, haven't unlocked Tier 7/8 yet. Need to finish automating rest Tier 6

I mean, I could rush it for that hoverpack...but

[topaz hedge]

I'm not sure I could build another setup as compact as that one, even with a blender. that was like the height of my packagerloop and recycled loop skills lol

[upbeat hinge]

I've been trying to force myself to build slightly more spacious setups

Makes it easier to build path ways to get around afterwards

[topaz hedge]

it helps to have room. I'm guilty of trying to cram as many machines as possible as close together as possible, but I try to leave space between different sections of the same factory, and definitely leave quite a bit between different parts of it

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, my habit tends to be build a box and cram it as full as possible

[honest lotus]

i'm messing around with mods so i have unlimited resources but if i have 300 copper ore per minute coming in on a Mk 4 conveyor belt, how do i load balance it among 10 smelters?

is there like a way to set splitters to output an exact amount of resources per minute onto one conveyor and another amount onto another?

[upbeat hinge]

yea, was looking for the example, but the server is being sketchy

Currently you can't set exact outputs on splitters, so you need do a bit of a setup to do exact load balancing

[honest lotus]

shame

[upbeat hinge]

Although, we might see something like that in the future, I know the devs want to improve the programmable splitter. As it's not very useful in it's current form.

But the diagram I posted will do the trick of 1 to 10

But you are limited on belt throughput, can't use the full belt speed, due the merge portion

But 300 on a 480 line should be fine

[fierce ruin]

So, lets say a rotor costs 5 rods and 25 screws. To make 4 screws it costs 1 rod and I start with 807 rods and 28 screws. How many rods can i spend on screws while getting the most rotors possible.

[unborn ermine]

I always just skip the middle man and grab a alt recipe or two before starting.
I ligit HATE working on that setup.
Casted Screws ftw

[stoic ingot]

Can someone check me on this - is my math right? I calculated that from 300 crude oil /min we can yield ~342 turbo /min which in turn will give us 11,43 GigaWatts of power with 76,19 fuel gens. All this math used new recipes for diluted fuel and turbo blend fuel.

[unborn ermine]

For giggles I tossed a few numbers into this calculator, just the blender recipes iirc?
https://curzona.github.io/satisfactory-calculator/calc.html#items=turbofuel:r:400&alt=alt-turbo-blend-fuel,alt-diluted-fuel

300 oil to 400 turbo

Its been a hot minute since I worked on oil and up, started a new game since I had to pretty much rework my entire map with my old save.

[stoic ingot]

Yes, reworking megabases is brainblowing...

Thank you for the link, I was indeed wrong with something.

I could've used the calculator myself but it's always more satisfactory when you figure things out for yourself. Well, I failed here along the way but now I know here and I can move on with stuff.

[wind spade]

I'd be careful with that site, it doesn't show byproducts

also not sure how much is it updated, considering it has like 50 forks and not all authors are active (idk about this one, never heard of it)

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, I can never remember which site is updated 😅
I legit just grabbed one off my recent history.

[wind spade]

well for example my site is updated 🤷‍♂️ https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/

[unborn ermine]

Tbf I havent been paroosing though here for a hot minute, cant blame a guy for not being proactive 😛

[wind spade]

the answer is 72.36 rotors 🙂 https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=8qjdkgpxPxQ6Z95vTONU

[unborn ermine]

I was using that one a while ago too, so many calculators in my history 🤯

I think I was checking old ones too, much confusion.

[fierce ruin]

3.33x means that I need to place 4 buildings and 1 must be at 33% clock speed?

[stoic ingot]

Or you can overclock 1 out of 3 at 133%

It depends on how much you have regard for the space and power used.

[fierce ruin]

oh ok

[unborn ermine]

Or have 4 underclocked to 83.25%
I love how many options gets the same task done.

[ripe dawn]

good choices are either 3 or 4 blenders; make the choice depending on how you would like to balance the ins/outs of the rest of the recipe & also consider the power demand- overclocking is more expensive than building extra machines for power, but cheaper in materials, space and design headaches 🙂

[sand garnet]

or do it properly: 333 machines at 1%

[fierce ruin]

I like that

haha

[spiral flare]

Hi, since the fuel consumption of the fuel generator dropped from 15->12 m³/min in the Experimental Build), does anybody know if the turbo fuel consumption also has changed?

[glossy sapphire]

I think it doesnt say anything about it in the change logs. Not sure tho

[red plover]

Still 4.5/min I believe

[spiral flare]

ok thx, then I plan with 133 generators xD

[glossy sapphire]

I already nearly raged out when I had to make 16 coal generators lmao

[fierce ruin]

Using compacted goal for my generators for the first time, and it's quite nice. Overclocked at 250% and the amount of generators needed is dwarfed. Have a nice clean powerplant now :)

[iron prairie]

That's... almost designed to trigger people like me.

1. Compacted coal (or the sulfur used to make it) is better used for turbofuel/turbo blend fuel.
2. Power generators are low priority for overclocking, with miners/oil extractors getting first priority.
3. Due to the polynomial scaling of power generator overclocking, ratios tend to become miserable to deal with.

On #3: a 250% overclock doesn't actually get you 250% of the power, it gets you 202.4%.

The formula is (clock speed / 100%)^(1/1.3); the closest to a nice even ratio you can get is 246.2289%, which almost exactly doubles power production (and resource consumption).

[supple mural]

this is interesting, this balancer wont work if you have a full belt coming in

[bleak coral]

I'm not a fan of burning compacted coal either mostly cause it's basically the same as burning 2 coal but with an extra step.

[spiral flare]

That's why i need so much generators.
My plan is to use 1080 oil -> 720 fuel (+480 compact coal) -> 600 turbo fuel.
That would be consumed by 133.3 generators. The there any potential to optimise it?

[iron prairie]

The heavy oil residue + diluted fuel chain can hugely increase fuel production, by a factor of 4.

[spiral flare]

ok, needs the mixer, I'm at T6 atm.

[iron prairie]

Technically, you can switch in diluted packaged fuel, but that can be an absolute bear to set up.

(for the record, for the same inputs minus 480 coal, you could make 960 turbofuel/min + 960 fuel + 360 rubber: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=eHmsP0Yf8NbjCPqqMuXL)

[upbeat hinge]

Yes, correct

[spiral flare]

ok thx, i'll save this for later when I need the rubber.

[boreal chasm]

did i get it right that you can feed 100 PowerPlants only with Uran if you use the right recipes? (mk3 miners, no overclocking)

uran mk3
Uran Cell alternate Recipe
Uran Rod also alternate Recipe

[upbeat tide]

If your patient and get turbo blend fuel, it cuts out the need for compacted coal altogether. You just need sulfur

But its a blender thing

[upbeat tide]

Current (in U4) max nuclear fuel rods is 50.4 which can keep 252 nuclear reactors fed

[boreal chasm]

thanks, i thought i made a mistake there

[upbeat tide]

You need two critical alts, infused uranium cell and nuclear fuel rod alternate

And then you can plan for plutonium making on top of that

[boreal chasm]

got all recipes ofcourse, i dont worry about that

i want to sink the plut rods - as far as i know you can do that too now -- no waste left

[upbeat tide]

Eh you can do that, but the energy those plut rods can give you is nuts, and the waste made is a drop of water in comparison

3 ISC’s per reactor and you wont have to even care for a few decades 🙂

[boreal chasm]

well i dont need the power with 100 PowerPlants, do i?

[upbeat tide]

All depends on you. My U3 world used 150k MW before I restarted for U4

[boreal chasm]

well thats less than 250 GW, by a lot

[upbeat tide]

I know but just saying its all up to your build goals

[boreal chasm]

well i wont go for more i guess - on the other hand, i'm in the middle of my calculations

[bleak coral]

I mean if you ever need it you can just set up the waste storage and reactors and stop sinking it.

[boreal chasm]

thats true

[bleak coral]

It's not exactly a permanent decision lol

[fierce ruin]

1. Sulfur is not being used, as I am not using turbofuel. Compact coal is very nice when you're not needing all of the sulfur yet.
2. I have had no shortage of slugs, yet.
3. It's more of a nicety than pure optimization. You can build a handful of coal generators with underclocked assembler and water pump and generate a nice amount of power in a very small space, with not a lot of work. For leaving biofuel, previously when using normal coal I had to design a massive powerplant to do everything I wanted.

Will it become obsolete? Yes. Guaranteed. But it's very nice at my stage in this playthrough

[frosty owl]

All coal plants become obsolete anyway

[icy chasm]

I hate coal plants, early game they are a god send but tier 5 and 6 they take the piss

You fix it, it works, then it breaks again, cycle repeats

The main thing I like about them is the humimg noise

[oblique hollow]

sounds more like rattling than humming to me

[icy chasm]

To me it sounds like humming idk

[upbeat tide]

Im partial to the sounds of the fuel gen and sloshing of fluid in the pipes

[oblique hollow]

Electric Locomotive is still my favourite sound

and also particle accelerator

[oblique isle]

Locomotive and power grid shut down noise is my fav

[topaz hedge]

Locomotive.. the hum of the fuel gen.. and refineries/pipes. Haven't quite figured out the sound of the nuclear reactor yet.. I suppose that's supposed to be servo's moving?

[lyric bloom]

someone has probably figured this out before - but i thought it was cool so i thought i'd share for the unfamiliar.

so here's an area where the rock unfortunately grows a bit into the space above the foundation. previously, i'd have used Smart to side-clip parts into place a portion of the through.

but, no mods. so: catwalks. they snap to foundations and are half the size. and because you can also snap them at the midpoint, you can also get 1/4 position snaps with a little fuzting.

[fierce ruin]

#screenshots

[lyric bloom]

the point is more the technique and the math behind it than the pictures, but sure.

[frosty owl]

#satisfactory-memes

[simple moth]

60 versatile framework/min is too much or never enough?

[wind spade]

depends what you need it for 🤷‍♂️

[iron prairie]

Given that it's only used for space elevator unlocks and magnetic field generators (another elevator part), I'd lean towards "way too much".

[wind spade]

and decent sink points 🤷‍♂️

[iron prairie]

If you want sink points, I'm pretty sure HMFs are a better use of the modular frames & steel.

[simple moth]

how much per min is best? i probably only need it for space elevator

so 30/min?

[iron prairie]

I've usually found a single assembler to be sufficient for most space elevator parts, though the last phase in U4 consumes so much that I might upscale a little.

[wind spade]

it's all up to you 🙂 figure out how much you need in total, how long you want to wait before it's done, check out how big the build is and how many resources you have and after you've seen all of that, you will have a pretty clear picture of how much do you actually want to build

[simple moth]

ok

im doing it to unlock tier 5 & 6

[slender basalt]

now have pipe v.2?

[signal nimbus]

Just getting into oil tech, already have the start of it planned out, but the goal is to prep a U3.5 world for U4 when it's stable (and the alternate recipes stop getting re-worked). I'm assuming stoping at Tier 6 and starting to build infrastructure (trains, highways, beltways, hypertubes, etc.) will be pretty safe, but are there any whisperings of re-working the Pure Ingot alternate recipes? Or would it be safe to start constructing some processing facilities?

[unborn ermine]

iirc aluminium and up were changed around, and if you had all tiers unlocked in U3 you would have some parts of the new content unlocked. aka drone tech.

Also if I remember hearing correct, they are pretty much done with edits? Just a few things like jetpack/hoverpack goodies and some bug fixes left to go.

[signal nimbus]

Okay, cool. Thanks.

[topaz hedge]

wow the magnetic field generator is only worth 16,130...

[blazing sigil]

when building a computer industry, should I focus on producing supercomputers later on?

[fierce ruin]

always

[vast jungle]

depends on what recipe you plan to use... there are two of them in U4

[strange lagoon]

is there a specific multiplier for power draw vs oc %

[strange lagoon]

always plan ahead imo

if you even have a suspicion that you might make something in the future its best to plan for it

[red plover]

I think I saw the other day it was quadratic, but I don't know the exact formula off the top of my head. The ui will tell you though

[frosty owl]

There's a bit of a complicated equation that ties OC and power draw, but raughly: 100 OC, 100% power
150 OC, 200% power
200 OC, 400% power

[strange lagoon]

i need to power it for it to tell me

so 250 would be around 500%?

[frosty owl]

You can get a preview of consumption if you check out the machines on greeny's tool, btw

You can change the clock and see how the power changes immediately there

[strange lagoon]

nice thx

[frosty owl]

I MIGHT be able to guess the issue (though it's hard without pictures xD)

[red plover]

In the software dev world, it's fairly common to see a programmer with a rubber ducky sitting on their desk. Whenever we encounter annoying bugs in our code that we can't solve, we talk through each line of code and what it does. Usually, just saying everything out loud makes you realize your own mistakes :)

Oh, and we talk to the rubber ducky if a real person isn't available

[dull bolt]

I love human rubberducks instead 😛

[frosty owl]

You may either have made a minor mistake in balancing or... Need some buffering or replace the MK4 sections with mk5
That is because the "stream" of scraps/min is not much consistent (you get a lot at once, then none until the next cycle finishes) leading to possible weird priority orders depending on how you set your balancing up, and filling up some conveyors while others only get the "holes" in production @Clairness#6305

All depends on the kind of balancing being used ^^

[oblique hollow]

For only 300 / min those mk 4 belts look awfully full

5 days of nonstop running?

Yeah, after that nothing is guaranteed

Unless the 24 hour resets actually occured

Do any of the end smelters or foundries starve?

That miiiight be the mk 4 limit

See, mk 5 already can only carry roughly 774 / min

Instead of 780
So perhaps the speed of mk 4 isnt that negligible either

It could be that they can only carry like 478 / min

If input and output is mk 5, it should be fine

[night jay]

Are you sure that it's an issue with both conveyors in general reaching their limits, or is it an issue fo reach up to 780 items per minute? I always thought it was because the engine could not run up to that 780 limit, not the conveyors in general being unable to reach their limits.

[oblique hollow]

The engine could run 1200 too, but because of rendering stuff, its too fast and lossy right now

[night jay]

Hmmm, ok. I have had mk 4 conveyors running full capacity and never ran into any issues, so I think this rendering issue is only with mk 5 right now.

[oblique hollow]

It could run anything, the problem is could it run savely, within an error margin?

[night jay]

Could be, I think I had a minor error margin as well.

[red plover]

It is so interesting that in a factory sim, we also have to consider tolerances, in addition to everything else, just because of engine limitations. I feel like it adds a nice layer of complexity for advanced players (it's a feature, not a bug lol)

[oblique hollow]

Btw, before i start on writing my next Infographic guide:
Which specific things should i go through?
My current plan is:

1. Seperate the Valve & Junctions guide into 2 seperate ones
2. Guide on feedback management and overall "how to keep pipes happy"

[red plover]

Not sure how much need there is in the broader community (Discord / Reddit / wiki / etc), but I was unaware of some of the manifold things until my conversation with you a few days ago. Like, when manifolding pipes, feed both the beginning and end of the manifold at the same time.

That may fit nicely into "feedback management", I just wasn't sure what you meant by that

[oblique hollow]

Feedback as in: managing recycling of, say, water from bauxite

It kinda ties in with general pipe management

@frosty owl how bout you?
Any suggestions?

[red plover]

Do with it what you want. If you don't feel like that's something that is commonly asked about, you can leave it out

[oblique hollow]

I just want to make sure to explain important things.

[wicked tinsel]

well, the pipe underperformance should be something more visible 🤔

earlier this week someone discovered you cant overclock nuke for example

[frosty owl]

Points I think could use explaining (though I'm unsure where you would fit them)
-How buffers affect things (flow stabilization, ease of check...)
-How to avoid the max flow issues
-How avoiding short pipe segments can help have less issues (ties with buffering)
That's what I can think of at the top of my head ^^

[red plover]

Short pipe segments are bad? Uhoh

[wicked tinsel]

i wish satisfactory used proper flow network for pipes instead of copying that crap solution from factorio :<

[oblique hollow]

It uses pressure networks

According to dylan

[frosty owl]

With how you have balanced things (using only exact splits) you can safely use MK5 and that should solve the issue, much like McGallon pointed out :)

[frosty owl]

I don't think they're bad, but I'm pretty sure they give you a higher chance of encountering any of the usual issues (the more buffering the pipes have, the better, generally)

[oblique hollow]

According to dylan to many shor pipes are bad too, because excess new calculations

A few short segments is ok, but not too many

[frosty owl]

Short pipes basically means bigger deltas, doesn't it?

[wicked tinsel]

flow networks and zero-capacity pipes would be best solution :x

[oblique hollow]

Idk honestly, its just what dylan said. Idk the details

[oblique hollow]

How is flow networks different from pressure networks

[wicked tinsel]

not sure what pressure networks is tbh, never heard of such algorithm

for flow network you basically solve how the fluid would go and you are done, it flows at maximal allowed rate

instead of current waveing behaviour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_network

[frosty owl]

That doesn't sound like something that allows pipes to be treated as containers too (more like simple connectors)

[oblique hollow]

Pipe 1 says "oh i have x pressure"
Pipe 2 says "i have less pressure"
So Pipe 1 directs flow towards pipe 2 based on the pressure difference

[wicked tinsel]

having pipes modeled as open air trenches is kinda bad, you cant really have air inside pipes or stuff breaks in real life

[wicked tinsel]

isnt it just factorio's solution with extra? steps. they basically have "pipe X have 15, pipe Y next to it has 20, flow 2.5 from Y to X"

its not too bad solution but it causes issues when pipes and connectors get saturated

[oblique hollow]

Saturated as in max flow, or full internal volume?

Because Satusfactory Pipes do not like being empty

[wicked tinsel]

in satisfactory case, max flow

basically, what i think happens is

when you have cross like branch toward machien in manifold

then both that branch and input lane have equal input priority

so you randomly cannibalize input by flowing from branch

=> you decrease input consumption => stuff eventually breaks

[oblique hollow]

Heres my interpretation:
Based on internal volume fill status, pipes have a certain capacity to transmit / generate pressure. A full pipe can experience no fluctuations in that capacity, while nearly empty pipes have heavy fluctuations

And so far that seems to be accurate

Since every time ive turned a half empty system into a saturated (here: full internal volume) system, all issues vanished

No Valve nonsense, no Junction nonsense, no starving, nothing

And that kind of makes sense realistically: there is no "empty room" that could eat up fluid flow or pressure or anything

No cushioning

[wicked tinsel]

hmm not sure, based on the experiments i had seen

the root issue seem to be enforcement of max flow

all solutions i had seen just make sure there is no max flow anywhere (like feeding manifold from two sides -> halves flow)

[oblique hollow]

One would have to find a test case where:

1. the system is saturated (volume)
2. the flow rate is max at some point inside the pipe.

That could for sure prove the true nature of pipes

[wicked tinsel]

isnt that the standard manifold test case i had seen?

input was 300 and it was split into packagers eating exactly 300

this ultimately leads to some packagers being starved as input cant keep up 300/300

[oblique hollow]

The problem is that at a single end, you cannot keep up the volume

Its always the half starved pipe where the machines starve

So the issue seems to be somewhere inbetween our 2 interpretations

[wicked tinsel]

if pipe system was filled completely before machines were started, it should never get empty later

if it got empty then it means that not enough input was provided in first place

[oblique hollow]

Thx Dyno xd

"Got empty"

[wicked tinsel]

this is what happens i think, based on testing

the backflow that happens while machine is working causes input to be temporary blocked and that missed flow is lost forever

=> stuff eventually starves as it happens from time to time

probably easy solution would be to limit machine fill rate to match it's consumption rate 🤔

[oblique hollow]

That backfeed should therefore happen at the very first few machines and directly imoact the incoming flow, showing as a decrease in input flow

[wicked tinsel]

yeah, and its what happens isnt it

[oblique hollow]

Not really

You can still see 300 going in

And yet the end has losses

[wicked tinsel]

flow indicator isnt super reliable unfortunately so it cant really be based on it 🤔

tho it should be provable with water extractors and pile of packagers

seeing if water extractors will miss 100% performance

[oblique hollow]

If not, then the flow is simply lost due to math errors. So not due to backflow

[frosty owl]

CSS did mention the issues being related to math ||which is related to science ||

[wicked tinsel]

in double feed manifold, there is never a 300/300 saturation on input side even if backflow is massive as it can redirect the backflow back into the manifold's other side -> it works

well, rounding issues are always possible, but errors on the pipe system seem quite massive compared to what would be expected from float rounding 🤔

[oblique hollow]

The problem is that finding out x could turn out quite hard

[upbeat tide]

Im a subsrciber to the loop method to deal with piping

Example

[frosty owl]

Urgh, I so hate to make double feeds
I prefer to just stay below 580/min

[oblique hollow]

oh wait, yeah @wicked tinsel
If max flow really didnt work, then splitting flow in half should also not work

so it cant be max capacity thats lower than it seems to be

[upbeat tide]

Thats a 300m3 TF pipe

[oblique hollow]

mk 1 should work there too then

[frosty owl]

Max flow works "fine" as long as you don't try to split it more than once before a manifold

[upbeat tide]

But split it in two pipes and looped in back

[oblique hollow]

that loop means that the pipe has no dead end for pressure

agh, i hate it all

its really hard to say what exactly makes that bug do its thing

[frosty owl]

I can safely confirm that a single mk2 pipe manifold could do the job fine in that situation 👍

[upbeat tide]

Maybe but too late and im not redoing this...8 times 😄

[frosty owl]

Item count goes brrr

[oblique hollow]

can confirm too, recently fixed someones TF plant, was a mk 2 pipes, without feedback even

[wicked tinsel]

clearly blueprints/copy-paste is the solution you are looking for

[upbeat tide]

Item count meaningless number

[oblique hollow]

i mean, game director mark wasnt opposed to that

[wicked tinsel]

im looking forward to fixing my turbofuel production once u4 hits

[upbeat tide]

Thats a older screenshot, piping is done

[frosty owl]

I just made a 450/min system, single feed, 3 "double rows" of generators fed centrally. Works like a charm

[upbeat tide]

2400 TF divided into 8 pipes of 300

[oblique hollow]

thats pretty much the same type of plant i fixed, each arm was about 108 tf plus some extra smaller branches

idk what the max flow was.....

[frosty owl]

Max flow is kind of the point here though xD

[oblique hollow]

more than 400 for sure

[upbeat tide]

@frosty owl view from the ocean floor

[oblique hollow]

108 * 3.... 99..... 125...

it might just have been 600 flow

[runic turtle]

Holy moly

[upbeat tide]

Its only 544 fuel gens

In 16 rows 34 fuel gens deep each

[runic apex]

Guys, what are you doing with the water from Aluminium Scrap?

[supple mural]

sending it back to the alumina solution

there are many ways of doing it effectively

one such way is making sure you water input from extractors is equal to alumina requirement minus scrap output

and just combine all the pipes

(while making sure that no individual pipe needs to deal with more than 600/min)

[oblique hollow]

also make sure that, no matter what, the water extractor pipe cant input more than it should

should they back up for some reason, they will try to output at maximum flow

[bleak coral]

@oblique hollow @wicked tinsel wouldn't one way to test if it's junction errors or that problem amelek described be to use a 200% speed nuclear plant and send the water through a bunch of junctions. Provide the water with two 250% clocked water extractors to minimize factors there.

cause that won't back up cause it wants 600m^3/min, so if it works with a bunch of junctions it's not a max flowrate + junctions problem

[oblique hollow]

possibly.... idk

[supple mural]

but if you send the water through the junctions with no splitting off it wont tell you anything about why manifolds are wonky

[bleak coral]

I meant split it a bunch of times arbitrarily and then bring it back together.

[oblique hollow]

so then make a bunch of dead ends?

[supple mural]

but then would it not just choose the shortest path to flow through?

[bleak coral]

I thought liquids did path of least resistance, not psychic find the shortest path

[mystic moon]

They go to the lowest spot first.

[bleak coral]

so if you put them all flat it'd go in all directions

[mystic moon]

Yes

[supple mural]

at first, yeah

[oblique hollow]

exactly that, itll flow everywhere equally at first

[bleak coral]

you'd not let it saturate first, the reactor would be on

[supple mural]

but the pipes that have the shortest path (or least resistive. same thing if its a flat plane of pipes) would end up taking the majority of the flow

[bleak coral]

you'd then compare it to a reactor that's just connected to the one junction between the two extractors

[supple mural]

i think it would be better to compare a system that allows backflow with a system that doesnt

with lots and lots of valves, and a bunch of packagers in a manifold

where you have valves between every pipe junction

cuz that would almost disallow issues of backflow

[bleak coral]

why packagers specifically?

[supple mural]

idk easy to set up

[oblique hollow]

also important to try: flat pipe manifold vs feed-up manifold vs feed-down manifold

[supple mural]

oh packagers are also good for flat pipe

[bleak coral]

also adds the wrinkle of packagers are difficult to flat-feed

[supple mural]

?

[bleak coral]

pipe is on top, how is it easy to flat feed?

[oblique hollow]

.... stackable pole

[supple mural]

by putting the pipe above hte conveyors?

[oblique hollow]

its the exact right height

[supple mural]

cant do that with refineries

unless you put the belt manifold above or below the pipes

[oblique hollow]

i always build stackable poles, then connect them with a pipe, slap junctions on there and then connect the packagers

[bleak coral]

? or at the same level on the foundations?

[oblique hollow]

same level = flat

[bleak coral]

yeah I'm confused how refineries are worse for that

[oblique hollow]

bigge

[supple mural]

if the pipes are at the same level as the pipe connections its the same as flat

[fierce ruin]

flat 🌎

[supple mural]

thank you RSO

it means there's minimum annoyance with making the manifolds

[oblique hollow]

Flat 🌏 smooth 🧠

[supple mural]

also, packagers can be a completely closed system

unlike anything else

[oblique hollow]

infinite feedback loop packagers

[supple mural]

yeah

[fierce ruin]

in modules it works very well

[bleak coral]

I guess, I'd just go with HOR to avoid solids input, and sink the coke

[supple mural]

HOR has polymer resin output

[oblique hollow]

HOR seems to be the worst offender when it comes to bad behaviour

[supple mural]

oh wait, read that wrong

[bleak coral]

that's also been the trouble child in the past, so it'd be a stress test

[supple mural]

i always have problems with my recycled plastic/rubber

[oblique hollow]

TF and Water are quite nice, fuel eh, but Oil and HOR are a pain inside manifolds

(i blame viscosity)

[supple mural]

not really with HOR refineries

they always do as theyre told quite nicely

[oblique hollow]

[stares at your Diluted Fuel Blender setup before being fixed]

[fierce ruin]

it's big brain time

[supple mural]

those werent HOR refineries

[oblique hollow]

ik. its just HOR in general

[bleak coral]

like HOR in the pipes, not HOR being made

[oblique hollow]

ye

[supple mural]

hmm i seeee

[bleak coral]

(we're out here slut-shaming our pipes)

[oblique hollow]

how bout thicc oil residue: TOR

[supple mural]

i think one of the problems is that things that craft with fluid dont do it smoothly

[oblique hollow]

neither are the producers

its all fluctuations

[bleak coral]

thicc heavy oil tar-stuff: THOT

[supple mural]

yeah, none of it is smooth

which means you get constant jumps

and that might be part of this backflow problem?

[bleak coral]

but wouldn't buffers help with the fluctuations? I thought it had been shown they generally don't make a pipe system more stable

[oblique hollow]

if that were true then nothing should work

[supple mural]

buffers right before the machines, in the form of a pipe with a valve on it

seem to do that

[oblique hollow]

Yes, one Flow Rate Equalizer before every machine

[supple mural]

idk, that's not really backed up by any real observations, just thoughts'

[bleak coral]

that's a big build

[oblique hollow]

Do it, i dare you.
Extra points if you use Flow Rate Interpolators instead

[supple mural]

what are these?

[oblique hollow]

thank you for asking

[bleak coral]

I don't remember exactly, I just know they involve space

and multiple buffers

[supple mural]

"Flow Rate Interpolators" sounds like a lot of fun

[oblique hollow]

One is basically a Lowpass FIlter, the other an even slower one

[fierce ruin]

oof

smol brain

[supple mural]

wont the fluid just bypass the limiting valve entirely?

[oblique hollow]

funny enough no

[supple mural]

is backflow prevented with more vavles?

[oblique hollow]

thats not their point but.... yea, just add one at the entry pipe and at the exit pipe, after / before the junctions

i just like to use pumps for that instead

since thats the safer

[supple mural]

i c

[oblique hollow]

yknow, with valves and the whole pressure reliability

[fierce ruin]

but electricity

[oblique hollow]

thats the one key difference between pump and valve

[oblique hollow]

shhhhh, 8 MW, you have Nuclear Reactor, you have 8 MW

[fierce ruin]

I'm on TF

[oblique hollow]

shhhhhh

[fierce ruin]

my second one

[oblique hollow]

8 MegaWatt

[supple mural]

8MW times a lot is still a lot 🤔

[fierce ruin]

might even call it TF2

[oblique hollow]

tf2 in 4 emotes

[fierce ruin]

stop giving @red plover ideas

[oblique hollow]

xd

[fierce ruin]

also 🔫

[oblique hollow]

> 🔫

[fierce ruin]

and 💥

[bleak coral]

how could you forget 🎩

[oblique hollow]

i didnt

[fierce ruin]

too much 💉 💉 for you

[oblique hollow]

Meem

[oblique hollow]

waaaaaait...... @frosty owl i just MIGHT have thought of the first useful case for one of the fluid logic gates:
Tiered Liquid Power Usage: By using the NOT gate, once a certain type of fuel is insufficient, (and thus a generator thats been powering a pump stops working) the flow gets redirected to other generators.
That can be: Once Fuel fails > direct water to coal, once that fails > use liquid biofuel or whatever

[frosty owl]

In my experience, they generally do
I always have a buffer before the input of a manifold, usually I let it fill up to half before I boot the system

[frosty owl]

Wouldn't that be useful only for pre-U4 setups?

[oblique hollow]

welll..... once you run out of fuel, this could pretty much act as a second type of power storage

by using perhaps packagers and packaged fuels

[frosty owl]

Oh, one could actually use that as a "failsafe" mechanism when adding generators (so consumption keeps going up)

So: you add too many generators, they start starving, the coal kicks in

[oblique hollow]

exactly, a storage that kicks into action

im still conceptualizing it right now

[frosty owl]

Kinda redundant since power storage but I can see people using it

[bleak coral]

sounds like a lot of extra effort compared to building a power storage

[oblique hollow]

but its fuuuun

[bleak coral]

or would it be like a backup for a backup

[oblique hollow]

exactly: more power management

got excess fuel? package and store it
got too little? unpackage and use

[fierce ruin]

power storage

[bleak coral]

also effort might be better spent making it so your fuel producing facilities can't trip in the first place by giving them their own grid

[oblique hollow]

the priority switch would make all this so much easier.....

it could actually take one some of the logic

if x then (A)
else B

[fierce ruin]

logical

[frosty owl]

I think you can have the same result if you don't pack it and save on power xD

[oblique hollow]

this is bootleg power storage

[frosty owl]

Careful when you go big brain, you might loop back around at being an idiot

[fierce ruin]

brain overflow error

[oblique hollow]

if grid fails then:
activate liquid biofuel generator backup

[frosty owl]

I get it, but what's the point of packaging? Wouldn't it work literally the same with fuel in buffers?

Or is the packaging needed to make the circuit work?

[oblique hollow]

yeah but you get the benefit of being able to use the empty canisters for more logic

[bleak coral]

also you can store more fuel in an ISC than an industrial buffer

[frosty owl]

I'd be skeptical the compression is worth the power needed to package/unpackage though xD

[oblique hollow]

gimme a few hours or days and ill come up with a few ideas

[frosty owl]

So if I give you a few ideas, will you give me a few days?

[oblique hollow]

maybe

[deft lichen]

an average house in the US draws 2 kW

any idle building here draws 100 kW

[bleak coral]

I always wondered why the power is so inflated in satisfactory

[deft lichen]

big number = cool

[bleak coral]

like what's wrong with starting in kilowatts?

[frosty owl]

Conclusion: average houses in US are like puny manifold enthusiasts compared to stilish balancer enjoyers

[deft lichen]

you could argue the long deserted streets are manifolds

[versed violet]

You can daisy-chain houses, but can't machines (yet)

[deft lichen]

power storage 😛

[bleak coral]

the poor road maintenance are our max throughput errors

[deft lichen]

highways aren't even mk5

[versed violet]

My country is limited to Mk1 roads then 🤣

[frosty owl]

Well duh, they don't work properly even at MK1

[wooden pond]

mine is Mk -1

[cedar mica]

Anyone know accurate the transfer number on the drone platform is?

[vast jungle]

mk5 belts only transport at less than 60 km/h... maybe you live in the wrong country? 😉

even with roadrunners running along its less than 110 km/h... that slow for a highway ^^

[wicked tinsel]

Its quite simple, every building in satisfactory has built-in fusion reactor that splits and recombines atoms of source into ones suitable for output. This is why you can make plastic out of steel and place screws in it. Ofc, that fusion reactor needs the power to function

[signal nimbus]

That moment when you were just planning a massive expansion to your infrastructure just to get your hands on a little more copper for a computer factory... and you notice you missed a pure node basically under your base that you haven't touched since early game.

[chrome holly]

Hate to see it

[vast jungle]

my old "mini mega base" is sitting on the "speedrunner spot" in the northern forest... and I should really dismantle it to make them accessible... but somehow I have kept it alive, even if it doesn't produce anything useful anymore

(on the other side, Copper and Iron is not that rare, so there is no reason spending hours to deconstruct a base ^^)

hmm

bonus points if you would have build your main base right above the new uranium node 😉

[fierce ruin]

bonus ducks*

[signal nimbus]

I mean, so far I'm up through Tier 5 and have only used about half a biome. Goal was to make a factory that can build factories, then work on infrastructure, then start the big projects. The expansion would have meant harvesting the northern half of the Rocky Desert, and I'm... really not sure what I would have used that iron for, my last expansion is still basically unused.

[vast jungle]

but it can quickly happen... you use 3 pure iron, 3 pure coal and 1 pure copper to make thousands of steel and copper and thing... "thats enough for the rest of the game"... and then you finish your HMF factory and think "where do I get more Steel?" 😉

[signal nimbus]

XD Oh, I have no illusions about that. I'm just of the mindset "let's exert the minimum amount of effort to achieve the desired result" at this stage.

[vast jungle]

build a good "bootstrap" factory first is a good plan...

[signal nimbus]

So, my HMF automation is all of 1 machine because that's what I can sustain with my basic Steel foundry.

[vast jungle]

I wanted to play with LOTS of trains... and got sick of hand-crafting all the HMFs... so my HMF factory now produces (among other things) 14 HMF/minute... not that much, but it just happened

[signal nimbus]

Yeah, I think a decent-sized HMF factory is gonna be my first real mega-project.

[gilded maple]

I’ve realized I won’t really use that many HMF because I have to build everything around them as well

[vast jungle]

good idea... and a nice "electronic factory"...
(computer/circuit-boards/ai-limiters... and maybe highspeed connectors)

these 4 can be combined quite nicely

[signal nimbus]

Mhm. Actually already had AI Limiters automated in Tier 1/2.

[vast jungle]

for Smart Splitters?

[signal nimbus]

Mhm. Whole item room is actually smart-split off from the main production lines.

Well... also blade runners.

Dropped a world image in screenshots.

[vast jungle]

this is my current state... currently waiting for U4 to drop in EA, which will trigger my space elevator and my work towards Aluminium!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1NfGRToXL6ZSFL9C9

already prepared Bauxit nodes, some copper ingots and all the HDs left in the world 😉

[signal nimbus]

Noice. Fan of outposts, I see?

[vast jungle]

yes... each of the outposts produce 3-4 items with 3-4 inputs

all connected with trains

[signal nimbus]

Have actually not gotten the chance to play with trains yet. Looking forward to it, but just haven't gotten there yet.

[vast jungle]

only the space elevator factory is different... because of all the damned differences in inputs 😉

[signal nimbus]

XD Yeah, I don't even bother with space elevator factories. Set up some temporary machines with storage containers, fill 'em up manually, wait.

[vast jungle]

Tier 7 needs 2.5k versatile frames... and the tier "9" unlocks (not really) are all 4 thousands of items

making 100 ACUs "by handfeeding" would also be painful

[signal nimbus]

Mmm... that's fair, yeah.

Never gotten past Tier 6, so was not aware of the thousands needed. Stage 2 isn't horrific with handfeeding.

[vast jungle]

I handfed Tier 1-4 too

[signal nimbus]

So to set up a single Computer production line, I'll need to...

1. Double oil processing
2. Expand screw production
3. Expand Circuit Board production

...lot of work for 2.5 Computers/minute, but okay.

[oblique hollow]

silly concept number 1: Fluid Coupler
Once the orange line has no more flow, the canisters go to the lower packagers and allow the liquid there to be transported through

Also my new icons are done c:

[fierce ruin]

censor anatomy drawings >:(

[oblique hollow]

are my packagers too glorious for you?

[frosty owl]

Lewd

[fierce ruin]

😳

[frosty owl]

But also seem like it can work ^^

[oblique hollow]

theres also something regarding "if power goes out" that ive been working on, but that takes more time to refine

[frosty owl]

Though, I liked the idea of the pump that gets unpowered more... Too bad that only works for fuels :/

[oblique hollow]

well, couple it with this and you can make fuel act on other fluids

though that WILL require power

[frosty owl]

Overkill xD

[oblique hollow]

there is only one other thing that could work, and that is having a NOT gate with the bottom pump powered. once the power goes out, the flow goes to the top path.
But you really need isolated generators to act as power switches for this kind of stuff

if you wanna mess around with some of the icons, heres my first every publically accessible draw.io file

[bleak coral]

hmmm, so like now I'm thinking an interesting challenge could be how robust can you make your power system and then let me loose in your world to do my best to sabotage it

perhaps with some limits to the sabotage

[oblique hollow]

hidden power storages everywhere

im just gonna clip into the ground and hide all my power shit there xd

[bleak coral]

ok that's cheating

[frosty owl]

Just place some nuclear waste on random belts, possibly before some smart splitters ^^

[versed violet]

Put hub outside map boundaries next to nuclear waste storage, take the only hazmat suit & med inhalers with me.
Gl trying to run to safe area.

[bleak coral]

I was not prepared for the counter-sabotage

[versed violet]

You did not specify boundary conditions.
Be especially careful when doing that around AI (or djinnis)

[icy chasm]

@signal nimbus get caterium comps and cut out plastic, cables, screws, and less circuit boards for more computers

[signal nimbus]

Oh, I'll do something like that for the megaproject computer factory, but I've only collected 2 hard drives so far.

[icy chasm]

Well, you'll need to collect more, trust me it's worth it, but I'm yet to switch other to caterium comps

[signal nimbus]

Don't get me wrong, I know they're great. The plan is to collect from where I build infrastructure and just get them as I go.

[icy chasm]

Good idea

[signal nimbus]

If nothing else, because dying far from infrastructure sucks.

[icy chasm]

HAHA

Sorry for being rude

[signal nimbus]

Didn't even register as rude to me, you're good.

[unkempt acorn]

what would you guys recommend would be the ebst way to deal with this? should i just set up all constructors next to each other and just do the overflow method?

[signal nimbus]

Mhm. If you want it to spin up a bit faster, you can feed the constructor line from both sides.

[unkempt acorn]

Dont really mind about the spin up time as it will be on constantly, just trying to think of other ways so i dont have to balance the input lines haha

[signal nimbus]

Then yeah, just overflow.

[unkempt acorn]

thanks 🙂

[supple mural]

hmm this looks like it could be used for... logic gates

and i thinnk you might need a buffer for the canisters

but that probably falls under "not drawn, but obviously there"

[umbral salmon]

So, after a week and some more design revisions, we are now up to a 3-bit calculator (plan is to do 4 max), and it works pretty well for the most part. Building it is rather exhausting though, since you have to look out for buffers and overflow everywhere, and for example one mk2 instead of mk3 ruins the thing and debugging is kind of annoying. We'll make something more comprehensive when its finished, explaining what we are doing (there are a lot of little intricacies that made it a pretty iterative process). Here are some WIP screenshots though

[umbral salmon]

And yeah this is very alike a part of our thing

[unkempt acorn]

Why is empty canisters worth less points in the sink than plastic on its own?

[supple mural]

can it run crysis tho

(very much a good effort on your part)

[umbral salmon]

building enough RAM to even hold 1 pixel of one texture already sounds like something i never would wanna do

[supple mural]

we just waiting for the in-game logic system

so you can wire up machines to logic gates directly, and then make a display using belts

or something like that

[oblique hollow]

yeah, most likely

[upper cave]

Repost from experimental but maybe someone here has a clue:
Is Greeny's recipe data correct up to the current experimental branch? I found one weirdness in the AwsomeSink values for Alumina Solution recipes that might be a bug but I haven't gotten my EXP base up fast enough to check. Sink ratio is the OutputSumOfAwsome / InputSumOfAwsome.
Two recipes:
AluminaSolution(6sec IN: 12xBauxite 18xWater | OUT: 12xAlumSol 5xSilica) Sink Ratio=1.8280
SloppyAlumina( 3sec IN: 10xBauxite 10xWater | OUT: 12xAlumSol) Sink Ratio=1.8462

The major strangeness is that the standard recipe is a ratio other than 2.0000. Over 95% of all non-alt recipes are exactly 2.0 ratio. The interesting thing is if you change the normal recipe to:
AluminaSolution(6sec IN: 10xBauxite 18xWater | OUT: 12xAlumSol 5xSilica) Sink Rato=2.000
Which just makes both recipes have the same Baux to AluSol conversion rate then the ratio is what I would expect for any other normal recipe.

BTW I hate that the Sloppy version is basically better in all ways given the above looks like a typo in the dev spreadsheet.

[supple mural]

as to whether its up to date i couldnt help you, but it is strange that the default recipe doesnt follow that typicalness of 2x. i think it might have something to do with the fact that aluminum has gone through a few changes. but, its probably going to stay not 2x if its not a typo, because then in order to maintain this typical 2x for all the other recipes ahead of alumina solution, they'd need to up their point values as well

also, is the point value of a product that cant be sunk without packaging (and is a terrible waste that way) that important?

[upper cave]

Its no so much that I was going to sink it, it was more that because it didn't follow the typical expected ratio for normal recipes it looks more like a typo than a conscious design decision.

[versed violet]

New design for Pick-abrick.
Does this look too cramped?
two lines of ISC, 32 total for all building materials.
Bottom ones embedded halfway down in floor, so you can reach the top ones belt from the ground.
Left side uncovered to show the setup.

Or, someone has nice shopping mall designs?

[supple mural]

hmm, actually they'd likely just lower the point value of bauxite if they were to fix it to be 2x...

[supple mural]

i think you should give yourself a little more room there, like onne or two foundations more room. also, i wish i had that idea of stacking them like that in a way that lets me access two at a time like that

[upper cave]

If they fixed the recipe to 10xBauxite it just makes the normal a standard 2.0 just like all the rest. Shouldnt have to change anything else and then the "sloppy" recipe doesn't beat the normal one in everyway

[muted crypt]

I personally think it's a bit cramped but other than that I think it's fine

I'd show you how mine is laid out once I get home, if you're willing to wait an hour and a half lol

[versed violet]

Two foundations in prev design looked a bit too wide. well, more like 1.5 foundations:

[supple mural]

sloppy doesnt make silica, making it a terrible recipe if you like your quartz

[supple mural]

my storage room is nice n spacious

[versed violet]

Or a good one, if you use pure scrap alt?

[supple mural]

#screenshots message

my storage room^

its a poor angle but im not playing the game right now

the space is almost a requirement to not feel boxed in lol

[supple mural]

pure scrap is a nice n easy way to throw out your aluminum

[versed violet]

Looks too spacious. I would probably squeeze a manufacturer/assembler/constructor in that space to have them close to materials

[supple mural]

it also serves as my garage

i place down a truck and fill it up with mats to bring elsewhere

[versed violet]

Depends whether the cost of hauling silica is less than mining more bauxite. I prefer simplier setup, since I don't need it too much yet and havent maxed the nodes

[versed violet]

That explains things. dat turning radius!
I plan on driving explorer through for the same, but only ones ways

[supple mural]

if its only a foundation wide i feel like youll end up getting the wheels caught on something very often

[versed violet]

Actually, explorer fits, with couple centimeters to spare

[supple mural]

"centimeters"

[fierce ruin]

"millimeters"

[versed violet]

Does design #2 look ok?
It leaves a gap that user can fall into, so either use fences (ugly overlap with belts) or the Cheatcrete ™️?

Made it a bit wider + Cheatcrete flooring. Hopefully the last iteration.

[dry wave]

How do you clip a floor into the container? Does it just let you do it?

[versed violet]

Cheatcrete ™️
Use the up ramp 1/2/4m, they allow clipping.

Which devs have blessed as sacred technique and decided to keep ingame after it was 'fixed' accidentally

[dry wave]

Does that not work in current experimental build?

[daring sonnet]

@versed violet since you mentioned ideas for pick-a-brick, this is mine, there are smart splitters behind that sort things that come from an airport in the south exit, in case you'd need to upgrade, I'd imagine building more floors is the way

it's kinda spacious even.

[versed violet]

Partially. You can still build ramps into things, but you can't build things into ramps. Not containers at least.

[muted crypt]

See I personally don't like how foundations clip into each other when you do round shapes so I've never bothered to do so

[strong pecan]

my storage: each item has 2 industrial storage boxes, the top ones facing in, bottom ones facing out. below 2 mk5 belts sorting at 1.5k items a min (smart splitters) with on overflow in the middle. You dump your inventory in one chest and it sorts it all out

[frosty owl]

Unless you wanna open a discussion about sorting systems and central storages, #screenshots is there for ya

[versed violet]

Neat.
How do you manage items that you dumped but do not have dedicated containers for? An overflow container at end with programmable splitter sending "known" items to sink?

[muted crypt]

I'd argue it might be worth to send stuff off such as slugs or color cartridges, send them off to be processed real quick, then bring them back in to be stored.

[versed violet]

One day, I'll make a system that takes in my inventory, and spills out a curated set of plates/rods/concrete/whatever that I always carry on me.

Yes, it would be easier with single container at correct ratios and just grab all

[shadow prairie]

Ask for mods over at the official modding discord. It is linked in #welcome @strong pecan

<3 @fierce ruin

[versed violet]

Alternate: Make a minifactory that makes the exact amount of stuff needed, all routed to single container.
Jetpack, runners, filters, ammo, and building mats all in one.

Manuafcturing exact quantities takes care of that

[frosty owl]

Things would get iffy when you only take a part of the contents of the container though. Skme items would pile up, leaving no empty slots for others

[versed violet]

Yes, that is why the whole routine is 'dump everything, run through bath/decontamination, pick fresh copy'

[topaz hedge]

I built a train mall, it's pretty much a station full of empty platforms, lined with storage containers. grab what i need and throw it in the train and off to factorie building

but setting it up so you have freightplatforms that load your construction train with most necessary building material would be easy enough to setup.

[versed violet]

I have automated train that gets loaded with 2 wagons of concrete and one of plates, with last one filled manually with rest. Useful when you run out of concrete - just autopilot it to base and back

[topaz hedge]

easy enough, you could expand that to do copper sheets, something like 80:20 mix of cable and wire, industrial beams, steel pipes/beams and mix some rotors/rip/ etc in there. and you'll be set. setting up a system like that seems more trouble than it's worth though

[versed violet]

At some point it will be needed. Add some fuel for jetpack, ammo, and expedition is ready

[tulip pier]

Anyone know the conversion from game coords to actual in game meters offhand?

oh, nevermind, looks like its just the coord / 100 = meters from center ( 0,0,0 )

saw that

[bleak coral]

you saw nothing, I totally didn't think more than 100 centimeters was in a meter 😛

[willow pilot]

What do you guys usually do with the excess water produced when processing Bauxite?

[bleak coral]

you recycle it back into the process

you can use valves to make sure that the extractors don't give too much water, or isolate the refineries to only take fresh or recycled water and not both

[willow pilot]

hmmm, that's a good idea. Just have to decide on if I want to haul it all back to my main factory for processing or do it along the way

[errant warren]

[summer willow]

🤮

[tacit dust]

@d155a715f1ed#9999 recycled back in the system. Underclock the water extractors

[ashen quest]

guys do you prefer instant scrap or sloppy alumina + electrode - aluminum scrap
as the aluminum scrap per bauxite ore is the same

[upbeat tide]

Instant scrap is a hard no for me. Mostly due to sulfur. I have calculated my build plan allocates for maybe 200 remaining sulfur in the world.

Im planning sloppy + electrode + pure + alclad casing + alclad sheets

[fringe crow]

What time is U4 out today?

[upbeat tide]

When they announce it 🙂

Nobody knows exactly

[frosty owl]

Sometime, same time as always

[fringe crow]

Shit, I posted this in Math and Meta.

My b

[frosty owl]

Not the first, neither the last for today, I bet xD

[upbeat tide]

No worries 🙂 those of us that lurk here dont care much

[dull bolt]

I'll be around when update becomes diluted...

[upbeat tide]

Also my other issue with instant scrap is that it still has a water byproduct, and does not provide any silica. Even with cheap silica, the needed amount is about 70% of the game’s raw quartz supply if you wish to smelt all bauxite

Same problem as sloppy, but sloppy looks like its designed to work with pure alu in mind

[oblique hollow]

Pure is the best way to save on silica. I managed to couple my battery factory with nuclear by having a normal alumina refinery and using the pure + sloppy combo. Normal alumina gets turned to batteries and it's silica goes to nuclear recycling

[upbeat tide]

Comparative analysis of all the options for the aluminum scrap setup

[upbeat tide]

Im planning to use classic battery alt.

[oblique hollow]

Aluminum and Nuclear are tied real freakin close

[upbeat tide]

Because it uses half needed aluminum goods

Nuclear uses no aluminum products. Which recipes?

Infused uranium cell + nuclear fuel unit alt

[oblique hollow]

The recycling mostly.

[upbeat tide]

Ah true im looking at mostly vanilla recipes for that to keep sulfur usage low. I should need 1512 ish for that step

@oblique hollow check my latest screenshots in #screenshots, especially first one you may wnjoy

[oblique hollow]

Hrhr fuellll

[upbeat tide]

Ikr? Think some of my best work. Astheticlly

[tame bear]

Can you recommend a good bus design

was having good looking ones but those create fps/expand-ability problems

[sand garnet]

no bus = best bus.

[dull bolt]

Red bus or blue bus?

[tame bear]

conveyor bus

[tame bear]

Suggesting trains or having single conveyor belts everywhere

[sand garnet]

long distance, large capacity: trains
long distance, small capacity: drones
short distance: belts

[tame bear]

I feel like having less control over efficiency when using trains

Also what about mountainous terrain like between dessert and oil biome

And large quantities of liquids

[tame bear]

How to make sure train is keeping up with 780items/min delivery

[sand garnet]

feed it enough.

[tame bear]

Well if i produce 780, cant feed it more

[sand garnet]

put industrial storage containers before the input station and after the output station so you will always have a supply going

[tame bear]

and i need all of it

[tame bear]

And thats it? No long term suprises?

Also what about liquids

[frosty owl]

There are fluid trains too...
Though I prefer to just process fuilds on sites and ship the solid products

[tame bear]

Cant do that to water, and im cheesing lift with pumping water on top of waterfall in dune dessert

[sand garnet]

fluid is just liquid solid. nothing different about transporting it

[tame bear]

So if i have to have bus going up there, it just seems easier to extend it to oil procution on the other side

[frosty owl]

If you're cheesing lifts you need to keep the pipe system continuos, so you don't have any other choice than using only pipes

[tame bear]

Whats better, long trains for multiple resources or multiple trains

[frosty owl]

Preference 🤷‍♂️

[tame bear]

Well, time to build another enormous building, coz adding trains at 4th floor doesnt make sense

[bleak coral]

Just don't have trains share stations. They'll have to wait on eachother and add to the round trip time reducing max bandwidth.

[lyric inlet]

guys do you know if they changed the fuel consumption of fuel generators with update 4? In the wiki it says 15m³/min but the generators in game show 12m³/min

[oblique hollow]

check the patch notes. its 12 /min now

wiki is still being changed ( updated)

[lyric inlet]

ty, so time to recalculate the whole fuel setup 😄

[gusty nexus]

how many canisters do i need to sustain a diluted packaged fuel setup

at least 400, but maybe 800?

[muted crypt]

I dropped two industrials and said "screw it that'll be fine"

[gusty nexus]

well, you can "recycle" the canisters very easily

[wind spade]

depends how you set it up

if you just make a 1:1:1 loop, then around 20 should be enough

[gusty nexus]

i have a 2:2:2 that merges at the fuel unpackagers and splits at the water packagers

[muted crypt]

imo it's better to just wait for blenders and get diluted fuel there

[gusty nexus]

if 20 sustains a 1:1:1 without hiccups, 400 should do the trick

[muted crypt]

same ratio (1 HOR + 2 water -> 2 fuel) and no packages to worry about

[gusty nexus]

yeah but i don't have blenders or that recipe yet

i only have the packaged version right now :\

[wind spade]

why do 2:2:2 when you can do two 1:1:1s

[gusty nexus]

so i can save space on the loop leading the emptied canisters back to the water

[wind spade]

well you want to put all the buildings close together anyway 🤷‍♂️

but it's up to you, I'm just saying that I prefer 1:1:1 setups because of the low canister requirement

[gusty nexus]

tbh i do 2:2:2 since it naturally fits the ratios better, 120 water and 60 residue means they all wind up next to each other

so it's 1:1:1 outside of the canister loop

[wind spade]

residue is 3:4 iirc

[gusty nexus]

well i don't have the heavy oil residue alt yet

so i'm making plastic/rubber via base recipes and getting 60 residue that way

[inland shadow]

Does anyone have the equation for turbofuel consumption per MW or clock %?

[gusty nexus]

you have to do like 235 or something to get exactly double consumption and generation

i don't remember the exact numbers

[wind spade]

turbofuel is 2000 MJ, fuel gens are 150 MW 🙂

so 60/(2000/150) = 4.5/m burn time

[obsidian sluice]

4.5 seconds? isn't it 4.5/min?

[wind spade]

you can always change the clock ratio

[wind spade]

fixed, played too much factorio and got used to do /s

[swift robin]

it's a hard habit to break

i want to think in terms of things per second

[frosty owl]

For reference, leaving just 2 foundations total between the packagers and the refineries (all in row) you need MINIMUM 35 canisters ||if I don't remember wrong, it's been a few days since I set it up||

[lusty magnet]

have the pinned links, tools, and such been updated for update-4 yet?

[frosty owl]

Greeny's is. The wiki needs some work still

[wind spade]

my tools support both versions

pick yours in top menu

[royal mountain]

anyone got a stackable blender design?

[cloud marlin]

hi man, awesome tools! is it possible to migrate my factory plans from U3 to U4 in your tool?

[wind spade]

uhhh, for now there's no user friendly way to do so

but you can click the share button, replace www. in the link with u4. and then put that link into a browser, which would import your U3 setup in the U4 tools

I'll eventually do something to resolve this but I don't have much time right now

[gilded maple]

Didn’t realize that wet concrete was actually so space efficient, even using refineries

120/min per machine with no OC

[muted crypt]

depends on what for, but I kind of do

[muted crypt]

is wet concrete 120/min now? o_o

Hey so I spent way too long designing this but imma just drop this here for anyone who comes here asking for a basic aluminum setup to get them started

I already see one mistake lmao but it's more of a design thing, there's ONE rounded corner

fixed, I also moved the line inward slightly...

[versed violet]

Do valves automagically ensure that recycled water goes first? otherwise, it may be safer to run one of refineries on recycled water only

[muted crypt]

given the ratio here, we can't run it on recycled only

if we tripled this, yes we could - three refineries making scrap and 120 water/min could supply purely recycled water to two refineries making solution and silica

[versed violet]

The main problem with aluminium is not getting the ratios right, but avoiding the loopback deadlocks

[muted crypt]

oh I know

I set up my system like the graph shown above, with the help of @fierce ruin - I haven't run into any issues with it yet.

[versed violet]

they may happen the moment any output backs up

[muted crypt]

I'm aware

But, again, I was only going for a small setup for aluminum at the time, to get my foot in the door - I'd much prefer preventing mixing recycled with fresh water.

[versed violet]

As a blueprint for 'new people', I'd rather err on side of caution to avoid the common pitfall.

[muted crypt]

That's fair. I can whip up something new later tonight, I leave work in 40 minutes and I have some stuff to do.

[nimble ferry]

Made this two days ago. Maybe it'll help with aluminium setup.

[tall stratus]

Quick question, are any information about improved rail networks with stops at junctions, or are they planning on leaving it like it is now with clipping and all?

[muted crypt]

We'll probably have a train update eventually™️

We know they want to do signals

[frosty owl]

Might be between now and U5

[tall stratus]

Cool, So if I plan on keeping this save, I should make one way tracks, rather than 2 way if i plan to use them for more than one train

[frosty owl]

Thinking ahead, that's a good plan ^^

[muted crypt]

ideally I can see a U4.5 being any revisions to drones that need to be made + train rework.

anyway, I'll set up something for the aluminum processing plant when I get home so that there's no mixing of "fresh" and "recycled" water.

The machine numbers work out better that way, no weird clocking or anything.. everything will be at 100% 😄

tripling it fixes the only two sets of machines that are like that - silica and copper production.

@versed violet, apart from the mixed water situation, do you like the way that it is laid out? Should I do something else to it in the second iteration?

[versed violet]

A final nitpick from me -> In diagrams, I prefer the crossings to be marked with dot, so you can see which arrows connect into mesh, and which ones just cross over. or do the "hoops" if tool allows 😉

[muted crypt]

OOH I can change line color. Would that be acceptable?

I can place in shapes for merge points and split points as well (and a third shape for pipe junctions, probably?)

[versed violet]

No need to visually indicate splitters, just avoiding the ambiguity

[fierce ruin]

does that setup still work?

[muted crypt]

I haven't run into any issues yet

I can go check on it tonight when I'm home if you'd like a follow-up from when it was built

[fierce ruin]

yet™️

[muted crypt]

yeah yeah

[abstract bolt]

how did you design that

[nimble ferry]

I basically drew that from scratch, if that's what you're asking

[abstract bolt]

is it like a website you used to plan it or something

[fierce ruin]

check pins

[oblique hollow]

biofuel power 🌲

this is the most useless thing ive done and im proud

[tall stratus]

#screenshots

[oblique hollow]

no this is important meta

biofuel op

normal fuel is now literally the same as biofuel

just that you cant turn this green gunk into turbofuel

[fierce ruin]

does that charge storages?

or itself?

[oblique hollow]

it literally only keeps itself powered

[fierce ruin]

stonks

[oblique hollow]

the entire Biofuel facility needs around 300 MW

aaaand i got 3 gens so i can only power like.... one thing extra right now

[tall stratus]

Liquid biofuel is probably something I'd never do

In comparison, that's once every never

about 0/13

ca 0%

[topaz hedge]

Use liquid biofuel power your factory making bullets and bombs and go forth and destroy the world and all it's greenery

[oblique hollow]

i had an entire truck full of plant shit

[topaz hedge]

I dunno how else to react other than..

[bleak coral]

So liquid biofuel needs a buff? I mean what's the point even if it's good lol

Or did you deliberately overclock stuff so it'd be as low net gain as possible?

[tall stratus]

I think rather than getting a buff it should get another purpose. Like crafting a rarer resource with it or something. That would give players a reason to create it.