#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 501 of 1

vast jungle
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the stone pillars in the canyon besides my base does not like the idea...

torpid robin
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haha this is true

vast jungle
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so at the moment I am building a trainstation with straight tracks on the bottom (for trains skipping the station), a train spiral on each side (one ascending, one descending) and two independent 4-wagon stations on per floor (with two floors)...

all with the footprint of 6 foundations wide (and I think 6+1+10+2+10+1+6=36 foundations long)

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still experimenting with the details...

fierce ruin
bleak coral
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@wind spade maybe it's not possible to fully accommodate splitting machines between lines for logistics, but a close approximation to my style is last machine underclocked or split last machine between two machines so it's an even number for a double manifold

i.e. for 17.8 I'd have 17 at 100% and 1 at 80% but for 16.8 I'd have 16 at 100% and 2 at 40% so there's an even number of machines for a double manifold

cursive garnet
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Just always work with stuff that gives you (odd #).(x) 🙃

bleak coral
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I will futz with clockspeeds and you can't stop me 😛

cursive garnet
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I have to say tho, having 30 refineries in a row really makes me wish smart! worked for splitters/mergers/pipe junctions

night jay
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@acoustic torrent that is the worst of all the pure iingot recipes, but is still better than the base caterium ingot recipe

vast jungle
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*sigh I finshed the prototype of my train station and I am not happy... symmetry didn't work out, have to do a few more experiments

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also, train tracks can be a pain with all their strange attributes

bleak coral
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I'd argue pure aluminum ingot is technically the worst, at least from an efficiency standpoint

torpid robin
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What are you talking about . I’d argue it’s almost the best . You don’t need to use the iron one as there is so much . Copper is about the same . Or you could use the alloy for power saving . Wet concrete same situation as iron . There isn’t much cat on the map and is one of the limiting factors in late game expansion . So anyway to get more is good . Pure cat and pure quartz beat pure recipes

bleak coral
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it just saves you bringing in quartz

torpid robin
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And agreed pure Alu trash

bleak coral
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I liked using to not bring in quartz, cause i didn't have a convenient spot that I could bring both bauxite and quartz into and didn't want to set up a new facility

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but that's an edge case if I've ever heard one

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also agreed that while it's technically one of the lowest increases in efficiency, it's for a much rarer item than the others

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pure caterium I mean

acoustic torrent
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im gonna need A LOT of caterium

wind spade
torpid robin
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And you need the quick wire before the turbo motors . That’s probs gonna change anyway

acoustic torrent
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already have turbo motors anyway

meager tiger
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So, I've been pondering belt efficiency, and came to a question mark...

So, for example, a T5 full belt will move 780 items per min. Now, for example, steel ingots need 45 ore and 45 coal, and simple division says that belt can feed 17.33333 machines.

BUT

at 780/min, that belts moves about 17 items/second. given that steel ore requires 3 (each) materials per 4 seconds, that means that, when including the time it takes to load materials and then craft the ingot, then the first 17.333 builders can actually extend out to about 3 times that amount, or about 52 builders.

I'm not really a math major, just been thinking about it too much. Does this actually check out?

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*Actually closer to 4 times the amount, as the time to load is less than 1/4 the time to craft?

dusky dust
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No, a fully-saturated mk5 belt will only be able to supply 17.33 machines, if they need 45/min

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There's no "loading time" apart from the time it takes to get those initial 3 into the machine

meager tiger
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but each machine isn't drawing that 45/min all the time

dusky dust
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By the time it's done processing those 3, three more have loaded in

meager tiger
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only every 4 seconds does it make that draw

dusky dust
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So it goes right away

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Yes, they will be

meager tiger
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so you can have that many machines going if they were all drawing evenly all the time

dusky dust
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If the machine finishes processing its first 3, and there's already 3 in the "hopper," it'll just continue processing with no delay

meager tiger
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but they dontthere is significant down time when it draws

dusky dust
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There will only be downtime on the machines if they're not being supplied with material fast enough

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(Note that a fully-saturated mk5 belt might not end up being exactly 780/min, depending on FPS issues and some other black magic in the engine)

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If a machine says that it takes 45/min of a resource, though, it's not lying.

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You're not gonna get more than 17.33 machines out of that 780/min belt (unless, of course, you're underclocking so they take less than 45/min each, but I'm assuming you're not doing that. :)

meager tiger
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no, I'm indeed not under clocking

torpid robin
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Can confirm . It will o my feed 17.33 any more and they will starve

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Only *

meager tiger
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I figured I was over thinking it

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muchos gracias

dusky dust
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np!

bleak coral
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at least within a small margin of error

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might be off a few decimals but close enough

wind spade
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when I finally get to finish those big planned updates, this will be generated in matter of seconds 😄

bleak coral
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at least with running stuff at 100% clockspeed, probably could do less nuclear and more HMF if you utilized underclocking a lot

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like you could ask the calculator "what's the most I can make of this and still power it?" and it'll solve that problem?

oblique hollow
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underclocking complicates that

bleak coral
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for sure, I think this is as far as I'm willing to go down this rabbit hole

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the unsustainable max is 1922 vs sustainable 100% clockspeed max of 1911.63, so you're fighting for crumbs at this point

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and I'm pretty sure the computer will turn into a slideshow long before you finish, if you actually tried to do this

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oh wait, this is wrong, this doesn't take into account oil & water extractors and miners

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plus pumps, but you can avoid pumps with clever placement

wind spade
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and also stuff like "generate X power" etc

bleak coral
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that's really cool

fickle mantle
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Im prob just stupid but someone please send explain making a proper efficient reinforced plate factory

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like a starter one with mk.2 conveyors

oblique hollow
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step 1: get an alternative recipe

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oh look, it even comes with a floor plan!

bleak coral
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But it'd be helpful to specify what exactly is confusing you

calm flax
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@fickle mantle but do you understand why that plan makes it efficent?

fickle mantle
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ya see

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the problem is that im using the original recipe

regal canopy
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that plan above uses the original one

calm flax
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Which is fine for early game...

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and that is using the default recipe

regal canopy
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yeah, no alt recipe is ever necessary, only more convenient and/or efficient.

calm flax
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In fact the special recipe like bolted plate cannot work in the early game because you need a mk3 belt to get screws into the assembler....

fickle mantle
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oh idk i tried making one a while back and i simply had a stroke which isnt normal for me i usually can make efficient factories easily

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i have a like 3kw coal factory that i got on first try but on the reinforced plate factory i just couldnt for some reason

calm flax
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The basic recipe is really awkward. I also would not do it as per that ref because you need mk2 belts in the early game

bleak coral
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you can restrict your mk2 belt areas, and go back and retrofit the mk2 belts where needed in that plan

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technically you just need enough mk2 belts to come from the miner, or not even that if you use 2x normal nodes

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@fickle mantle the key to making efficient factories is breaking down each part and making sure that the inputs you have (like ore) match the outputs you're making (like ingots)

calm flax
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yeah but its like you want the mk2 belts immediately for coal or so.... so you can build 120/min setup's

bleak coral
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so 30 ore in for 30 ingots out, and you just repeat that with each step

calm flax
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So you going for 5/min or 10/min rplates?

bleak coral
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you've got to set a goal in mind too, either saying "I've got this amount of raw materials how much can I make out of it" and then work up step by step, or do the opposite and ask "I want to make this much per minute, how much raw materials do I need" and work backwards step by step

calm flax
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Yup. So the rate is very important early game. If you are about to run a coal line and you want it to be mk2 you want 20/min rplates 😉

bleak coral
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20 is a lot, 5 or 10 is fine

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you can be frugal with mk2 belts, and split them into mk1 lines

calm flax
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10 is normally fine... you need other stuff as well eg plates, rods

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But you can do 10/min with mk1 belts efficently

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with 2 60/min nodes

bleak coral
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it's a stop gap anyway to getting steel going and steel beams for mk3 belts, which you can freely use everywhere cause you can make a lot more a lot easier

calm flax
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especially if you get solid steel ingot :S

torpid robin
unkempt grail
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diluted packaged fuel allows for 300% more fuel from the same amount of oil

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by no means necessary, but 30 HOR (+ some water) -> 60 Fuel/min is a lot more efficient that 60 HOR -> 40 Fuel/min

serene jay
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Any math buffs that want to help me work out a factory split I've been spending all day agonizing over and reiterating? I think I have the most efficient method but maybe my spacing in-game could use some work.

I need to split 2 lines of 120 Iron Ingots and a line of 30 Iron Ingots in to 21 constructors for Casted Screws. There's a remainder of 7.5 Iron Ingots after doing so, so a 22nd constructor unclocked at 60% is required to utilize all resources.

I ended up doing even splits of 2 on one line all the way down to 16 lines of 7.5 ingots. I split the line of 30 in to 6 lines of 5. I also split the last line of 120 in to 6 lines of 7.5 and 12 lines of 5. The math checks out.

Am I overcomplicating? Because I am having a huge space issue. I only have a couple hundred hours in to the game and have spent the majority progressing, unlocking, and learning resources and recipes. Build efficiency has not been a top priority until now. Any suggestions? Is there a simpler way to fill these constructors? If not, any tips on building such a splitter array efficiently?

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Oh! I am currently limited to Mk 2 belts. I am being stubborn on advancing tiers until I efficiently utilize all resources in the area and produce all available parts to me in the game. Also trying to find as many hard drives as possible as I go.

vast jungle
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Just build a manifold...

serene jay
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MAnifold doesn't really work with the belt limitation 😛

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Manifold has always been my go to up until this point lol

vast jungle
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then build TWO manifolds... 😉

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and merge the rest of them in the end

serene jay
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processing one moment.

vast jungle
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think about it feeding a manifold from both ends, ending it in the middle... this way you can double your belt capacity.

serene jay
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So if I manifold a single line. A line of 120 will feed 10 constructors with a remainder of 7.5. If I split out of that last splitter, will it consistently push out the 7.5 eventually?

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Or wait no.

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9 constructors with a remainder of 7.5

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Head math hard.

vast jungle
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you ave 270 Iron Ingots... you can easily split this in three belts and feed three manifolds with them... then merge the output of the last splitter of each of them to get the full remainder

serene jay
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I'll try that, thank you. I hate how this game loves to encourage me to overcomplicate simple problems.

vast jungle
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combining "small" balancers with attached manifolds is a good way to break down problems like this

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in theory it would also work the other way around... use a manifold to feed small balancers... but most times this doesn't make much sense.

the "balance, then manifold" is especially useful when you break up your line of machines into multiple lines anyways... then each line can have a manifold which is fed by the balancer and then merge the remaining items

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the main issue could be that the last machines on the manifolds don't get enough parts...

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because each machine in a manifold gets only HALF of the current manifold flow, unless the manifold blocks.

So you might need to merge the "balanced" manifolds earlier to keep the rate of items on the belt over twice the machine need.

serene jay
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If you pre-load them and top them off though, that typically offsets any negatives of using a manifold though as long as your maths are correct on input efficiency.

vast jungle
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the problem is when a machine gets not enough and the manifold itself doesn't block

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feeding to much to a machine is irrelevant, because eventually they will block...

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so feeding the remainder of your line into a machine with exactly takes the 7.5/min would be perfect, because eventually this "overflow" machine will block if it gets too much.

Feeding the remainder of the line to an awesome sink is tricky

serene jay
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I've been through about 5 playthroughs now, each with varying progression. The last one unlocking all tiers and such but not delving into aluminum and nuclear. Manifolds are all I've used 99% of the time. My knowledge for balancers and why they're necessary is pretty lacking. This is my first factory game. So these logistics are a whole new experience for me.

vast jungle
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(but possible)

vast jungle
serene jay
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I haven't ran any logistics that involve overflow or feedback loops. Nor have I sunk anything in to an Awesome sink aside from by hand input.

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I enjoy math too. But being out of school for 10 years really takes a lot of formula and concept knowledge away from the brain lol

vast jungle
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one trick I found useful for getting the Overflow of a Manifold... install a smart-splitter with Overflow at the INPUT of the manifold, so you only get overflow when the whole manifold blocks... much easier to get right than to take it at the end of the Manifold.

serene jay
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Oh that makes a lot of sense.

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I'll definitely keep that in mind.

vast jungle
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learned this trick the hard way when I starved a factory line by taking the "overflow" at the end of a Manifold... and suddenly the last two machines were not getting enough items anymore... which block a LOT of machines further down the line... which made my Quickwire line overflow A LOT and flooding a shared main-belt 😉

serene jay
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This is also the first playthrough I've religiously used walls. Man. I never thought succumbing to aesthetics would awaken such a beast within me. I'm doomed to this game now. And I thought I already was before, lol.

vast jungle
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I am playing with Trains at the moment... have been experimenting with a design for a "footprint efficient" train station for multiple trains at the moment, but I am still not happy

serene jay
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Trains are something I'll be tackling the first time this play through. There's so much in the game. Each playthrough I add a few more things in to experiement with. This might be the first one that I actually exploit everything available to me. I actually haven't automated tractors/trucks either. Might need to be doing that once I unlock Tier 3/4. I guess I just don't understand how measuring the transport rate/minute with materials works with vehicles because it's not on a constant, measurable belt. Which is a little intimidating.

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Theoretically, I could time my recording and the amount of material transported and factor it up, but eh.

vast jungle
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I skipped trucks completely... had more than enough resources near me to use conveyer belts

serene jay
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Yeah , I tend to cheat and migrate to resource rich areas using SCIM 😅

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Although I've got a great area about 1000 meters west for Sulfur, Quartz, and Caterium. Haven't decided on transport or a secondary factory that will just transport finished goods, yet.

vast jungle
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I built my base right on top of a cluster of pure nodes (4 iron, 2 copper, 2 quartz nearby)... and I also have sulfur/coal/caterium "nearby"

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still, the incoming belts became a mess to deal with... not enough floor space

serene jay
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Floor space is something I'm struggling with now, as well. Even with just Mark 2s. Which is nuts. I've got 6 (1 covered) pure Iron, 2 pure limestone, and a pure copper. I've had to settle for a vertical build even though I didn't want to build vertically until I built the dreamy megafactory in the end game.

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Is it common to "PUG" multiplayer worlds? Or are you just SOL unless you happen to have friends with PCs that want to play a factory building simulator xD

vast jungle
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I think I just had a breakthrough for getting a nice symmetrical design that doesn't involve crappy "not just 45/90 degree" turns 😉

serene jay
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I've slowly started to gain the 90 degree OCD trait. Lol. Especially if I intend on a more permanent factory. Although if there's anything I've learned, accept that anything you build will be tore down in the next 2 seconds or 2 days or 2 weeks from now.

vast jungle
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90 degree angles (combined with foundations) make factory layouts easier... especially when you have to change something afterwards.

serene jay
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For sure. I'll never go back to saving a couple of seconds and accepting hideous belt arrangements. I actually was reading up on a splitter guide and this guy used pictures as proof of concept and the belts were all over the place. No 90 degree turns and all kinds of spaghetti and I think I almost vomited.

vast jungle
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sometimes belts still get out of hand when you have to add things... e.g. at the entrance of the base. Thats why I want to switch to a standardized train station layout... every factory (and every resource area) should have access to a "station" with one (or none) station for a 1/4 (1 locomotive, 4 wagons) station for unloading and one to three 1/4 stations for loading. Each loading terminal allocated for a fixed purpose.

When you send a train and only want to load something specific, you just add a few "dummy" fluid-traincars to prevent loading the wrong stuff.

serene jay
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Because if the fluid cars hit a loader that loads solid goods, they won't be filled. Nice.

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I'll be able to talk trains one day, but I haven't experienced the mechanics at all yet.

vast jungle
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lots of messy things to learn... I am still unable to find a good trick to rotate foundations without loosing the precise height of them

serene jay
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I get to think of the best way to take 1080 Screws to the next level of this factory and split it among ... wait a minute. I just realized I can't even run this 250 screw recipe without getting mark 3 belts. Guess I'll be underclocking 😫

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Perhaps I'll just throw the assemblers on in a mess for the sake of producing SOMETHING and contain the excess tier 1 production in buffers and go work on that secondary factory for the sulfur, quartz, and caterium to max out my mam and then tier up. I just hate being un"finished" with this stuff and then feeling obligated to go start a next tier project to finish the previous tier lmao

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The never ending cycle. Genius devs. I hate you.

vast jungle
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you can do 120 screws...

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(3 machines output at 100%)

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and then have 9 groups of them

serene jay
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I will. Just means more assemblers.

vast jungle
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for screws????

serene jay
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I'm using the alternate screw recipe though.

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The screws are for an assortment of higher tiered parts.

vast jungle
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which Alt? Casted or Steel Screws?

serene jay
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Casted

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The issue is that I intended to use the alt recipe for RIPs

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That requires 90 plates and 250 screws per minute. I can underclock it at uhhh

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I thnk 46%, if my head is on right.

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And still get the job done with 120 screw inputs.

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But then I'm looking at 9 Assemblers instead of 2. Which kind of sucks.

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Wait I'm dumb.

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Forget that last line lol 500 screws for the plates, which will just end up being 4 instead of 2 and I'll settle for 96% efficiency instead of the intended 100. For now.

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(I've got 580 screws leftover for machines for Rotors and Modular Frames as well)

vast jungle
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Bolted Iron Plate

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I would not bother with Bolted Iron Plate until you get Mk3 belts...

serene jay
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But the output is so good. 😦

vast jungle
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yes... but Mk3 belts are not far away...

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project assembly for Tier 3 ist not difficult to improvise

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just a single machine with containers at Input and Output (or more if you are in a hurry)

serene jay
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I'm going to step back and just make some shoddy lines to produce everything and not worry about throughput. Having all the resources flowing in to the base is enough and I don't need to use it all. I need to expand and get more resource variety, build small systems for those, and tech up, I think.

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Getting too caught up in low tier tech with too many limitations.

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This is the first time I've gotten to talk things out with someone for this game in weeks. Thank you lol xD

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I've been in my own little single player world and mindset for a few hundred hours now since getting the game. I should have joined this discord weeks ago.

vast jungle
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you are welcome... I really like to talk about things like this

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(at the moment I am making a draw.io picture for my new train-station)

serene jay
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My brain LOVES to overcomplicate things. It has quite the capacity for complexity, but it enjoys overusing said complexity. I'm the type of person who will do a cross word puzzle and find all the words people struggle to find first and then struggle to find the ones directly in front of my that others think are the most obvious 🤷

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Having someone or something to bounce off of helps to get through unnecessary layers of complexity for sure lol

vast jungle
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its like pair programming... or the rubberduck programming method

serene jay
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I've never seen draw.io before. I just looked at it. That's amazing.

torpid robin
serene jay
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Is it? It seems slower.

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Obviously I didn't do the calcs because I dismissed it at a glance.

torpid robin
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Removes screws . And uses wire . Then you use iron wire . Those 2 alts go amazing together

serene jay
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I do have Iron Wire

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I think I passed on the Stitched alt though when it popped up D:

torpid robin
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bugger lol. im just looking at the numbers now

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well stitched iron plate makes 3pm same with bolted

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but bolted uses 18 plates pm. stitched is 10. so cheaper already

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then you remove screws. which removes rods. or the need to make steel screws

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to make 20 RIP. with the bolted recipe. you will use 263 iron. need to make rods. then screws ad uses more plates and costs 150mw of power

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you have iron wire anyway so lets look at that

serene jay
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Considering power hasn't become something I've been mindful of yet. Since I can always just tack on more power plants. Although, I will say, intentionally prolong tier 3 (and in turn, coal) is starting to become a serious headache lol

torpid robin
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stitched iron for 20 RIP will take 174 iron . you make plates. you make wire.and iot costs 124mw of power

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just trying to give all the info. so if power isnt a concern well thats easy peasy anyway

serene jay
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Holy cow, I DID pick up stitched lol

torpid robin
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but yea even just to make 20 its less complicated. more resource effecient ,same speed.and uses less power.

serene jay
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The only thing I'm not quite getting is you said

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Stitched is 3ppm and so is bolted. But Stitched is 5.6ppm and Bolted is 15.

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Unless I'm misinterpreting your use of

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'pm'

torpid robin
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hmmmm. i might be reading the calc wrong.

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gimme a sec

serene jay
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For reference, standard RIP is 5ppm.

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(Looking at my assembler at the moment :P)

torpid robin
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that calc is lying to me lol

serene jay
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Time to find a new one lol

torpid robin
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the way the calc may show it is that it makes 3 at a time?

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its greenys calc. but i never havef paid much attention to that.

serene jay
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uhhh let's see

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Yes, 3 per craft.

torpid robin
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yea so checked the wiki. that makes sense so greenys calc shows each craft but you are right on the PM

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but regardless. the power and resource effeciency is still better

serene jay
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So you'd have to nearly triple the material requirements of stitched to get the same output as bolted.

torpid robin
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and less complicated

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no

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so to make 20 RIP with stitched alt. and iron wire alt. you wil use 174 iron ore

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to make 20 pm with bolted alt. you need 263 iron ore

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it makes it slower pm. but is much cheaper per one

serene jay
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Correct. But if you don't have a resource bottleneck, then time becomes the more important resource.

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Unless you're just building machines to create an eventual bank of said items that have no immediate need, then I'd agree, the Stitched is the better way to go.

torpid robin
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and you would need an extra 10 constructors with bolted

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no cause we were looking at 20 PM for both

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its the same PM lol

serene jay
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Oh, I didn't see you say PM.

torpid robin
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opps i didnt on the stitched. just the bolted. but ye i was looking at 20pm for both

serene jay
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Trying to figure out how to use this darn calculator

torpid robin
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Greenys one ?

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What are you struggling with

serene jay
torpid robin
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That’s correct

serene jay
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Well I selected my alternate recipes

torpid robin
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That calc was update 2 the tools is the new updated one

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To the right disable originals

serene jay
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And it suggested a path for 20 RIPs pm

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I wish it'd let you select from a variety of paths.

torpid robin
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Easy way I found . Write in iron at the top of alt list . Then just check the box you want . It’s a bit quicker

serene jay
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The planning tree is nice though when you input multiple products.

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I spend more time looking things up and planning in this game than actually playing it, I swear.

torpid robin
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dw you arent the only one. i draw everything up on flow charts and shit lol

serene jay
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I just did that with an insanely over complicated bal...ancer? I think? Earlier lol

topaz hedge
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I just punch things in the tool, build it, and have it dump into a sink and fix it if it doesn't output what it's supposed to lol

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I probably should spend more time planning. but it's not really my playstyle I guess

vast jungle
hearty mural
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I’ve played this game for 20 hours and most of this stuff is still way beyond me

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Jeez

topaz hedge
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Don't get overwhelmed. it's really easy to do. I usually just focus on what's infront of me if I start to feel it, or take a break.

hearty mural
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no I have no problems with building functional factories I just have issues with making them as streamlined and energy efficient and material efficient as possible lol

torpid robin
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hahah man i focused on what i need to get to at around the 2k hour mark lol

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you are suppose to look at the end product and work your way back. so i looked at what i wanted by the end and worked my back for planning then started building

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but yea. seriously . dont do that lol

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you wont like yourself

serene jay
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I've done that a few times. It's a pain.

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Flawless method of execution. But a pain.

hearty mural
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Thanks guys I suppose I’ll start with my computer production Bc that’s my biggest bottle neck

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Or cicuit board sorry

serene jay
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With each of my playthroughs, I've realized my two biggest bottle necks are power and transport. So with this playthrough I've made it a goal to put some serious work in to my power plants before I need them and to do a better job embracing vehicle transport.

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You just eventually need too many resources to stick with your home base/factory. So you've gotta transport. And building is much easier when you're not concerned with power outages or mangement.

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So I think establishing those two things very early will make expansion later a lot easier and less painful.

hearty mural
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Thanks for the tip btw any way to get rid of nuclear waste for good

serene jay
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Nope.

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Massive, remote storage. There supposedly will be a use for it down the line.

jade minnow
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But you also get new recipes for power expansion. Using compacted coal is better than coal and then turbofuel is better than compacted coal. So you kinda always have something to improve. And that's what I like about this game 🤓

hearty mural
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Sweet thanks guys this helped a lot but I’m gonna go Bc it’s 3:11 where I am lol and I need sleep

serene jay
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Oh, of course. But hitting certain thresholds will make it so you have the power to initially power your new plants when you're working on getting them off the ground. Like I think Coal generators for 2000 - 3000 MW is a good start.

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Take care, dude.

hearty mural
#

U too

serene jay
#

And that should probably be enough to build a Turbofuel plant up to 50k. And then that'll support your start up for a nuclear plant.

frosty owl
serene jay
#

xD

jade minnow
#

Exactly. Start small and then expand

serene jay
#

Well, for a blooming pioneer, I don't know if I'd call a 3k coal generator plant small xD

#

What is that, like 40 generators?

#

But my point is it pays dividends for your first biggest projects to be power plants, in my opinion.

jade minnow
#

When I built generators I had plenty of stuff in my storages to build even more

#

Because I wandered around so long to look for HDs lol

serene jay
#

Yeah I waited until Tier 7 to do hard drives in my last playthrough

#

Big mistake. Won't be doing that again.

#

In fact, I think your hard drive recipe weights MAY scale with your tech level? Which is a super good reason to do them as you go. 10 per tech level and you've got em all at Tier 7.

jade minnow
#

Yeah you can only get turbofuel if you have the needed Tier and compacted coal

vast jungle
#

your ability to GET to harddrives also scales with tech level... getting Roadrunner, Gas-Mask, Jetpack or even getting Walkways from the Awesome-Shop can help you get to difficult places a lot

serene jay
#

That's true, but there are plenty of reasonably easy to get to drop pods available and you can save the difficult ones for when you unlock mobility techs.

frosty owl
#

I've taken most hard drives with a zapper and nuts in my hand. Like a real pioneer

vast jungle
#

@frosty owl you are nuts! 😉

serene jay
#

Storage Containers are legit.

jade minnow
#

But I still think if you just build small supplies and maybe a bit more for the 'building' items like concrete and encased beams and such then you don't even need alts. I planned a tiny mega factory if you wanna call it like that only making like 1 item per min of all the higher tier stuff and then like 10-20 items of those more important parts. Needs like 1,5 GW

frosty owl
#

You really don't need alts at all. They are just convenient or offer different solutions to a problem you can ALREADY solve

vast jungle
serene jay
#

Progressing through the game is easy once you've got a handle on it. Optimization and overkill, on the other hand ...

#

Who needs turbofuel. Just go nuclear xD

#

I'd like to see stats of the player base in regard to number of people that sandbox the game vs number of people treat it as a campaign and the Tech 7 unlocks as "the last level"

#

"Everything's unlocked! That was a great game!"

jade minnow
#

I see it as both. I like to build neat buildings and also get better things and unlock something over time

frosty owl
serene jay
#

Satisfactory PvP sounds like an interesting concept.

#

Getting together and co-oping a factory sounds fun and all (if not frustrating by lacks of communication and the implementation of a variety of ideas on a single canvas). But getting together and developing COMPETING factories? That sounds like a blast. With pioneer vs pioneer combat lol.

#

Griefing would be a tricky thing to handle, though.

jade minnow
#

PVP? Placing a big building outside of my actual factory with several walls to protect myself 😄

serene jay
#

xD

#

There could be a variant of the space elevator that randomizes part requirements. The first player, for instance, to send the parts up would get some kind of bonus or boon.

#

It'd be a rush to dominate resources.

frosty owl
#

I think mods have enough room to work with to consider this sort of ideas 🤔

serene jay
#

There would have to be SOME way that wasn't just simply pressing and F and clicking to get rid of opposing player buildings/structures. Like maybe you could destroy X number of things over time but the controlling player could stop it by getting to said structures and canceling the countdown. Only to find the assaulter waiting to try to kill him to stop him from stopping the destruction of his base xD

#

Idk. I'm no developer. But I definitely think there's a way to implement it in a great way.

#

Man. The things I'll talk about to avoid a factory grind lol.

frosty owl
#

Satisfactory has a bad tendency of provoking burnout in the long run
I suggest "building helping"mods to counter that a bit

serene jay
#

I think I definitely need to fit some Warzone in my life for some adrenaline spikes. Although those spiders do a pretty good job of that.

vast jungle
#

yea... damned spiders

#

luckily I think I have never met the "gas cloud generating spiders"

#

I was even thinking of having a number of containers with the input of my shared belt smart warehouse... so I could have a train give me a mixture of everything. Not sure if this would work out well

jade minnow
#

I once met a big spider in a narrow cave and it killed me (purple slug down there). I came back, threw 30 explosives down there and killed it without even seeing it lol

serene jay
#

I have met a gas spider. Fortunately, I had a gas mask because I had been getting hard drives from the swamp

#

But man those things are nasty.

vast jungle
#

when I am in a swamp like this I stay on foundations higher up in the air (normally)... and then just shoot down.

fierce ruin
#

same 👆

#

I have seen a lot of spiders during my gameplay but I never have been on the same ground

#

just place your miner on the uranium node from a high place and leave

quick steeple
#

I make 6 rotors a minute and need 2.5 on one line and the other line the rest can someone help me with this?

fierce ruin
#

you could split evenly, once the 2.5 line is full it will lower from 3 to 2.5

quick steeple
#

Its a very long line but it will work ty

unkempt grail
#

if you want perfect sorting you could split into 2, then 3, then 2 again (so 12) and then merge 5 of those points

jade minnow
#

If you really want a perfect line the only thing you could do is adjust the machines and their outputs. You could make (idk how many you need for 2.5 rotors) and then you could make the other machines spit out the 3.5 rotors and feed the next machines accordingly

#

Oh you only need one assembler per line, I just looked it up. So underclock the first one so it only produces 2.5 rotors and the other one so it only produces 3.5

vast jungle
#

in fact you can do any fractional sorting in Satisfactory... there is no fraction of two natural number you cannot achieve

bleak coral
#

That's not true, you can't divide by prime numbers other than 3, 2, and 5

upbeat hinge
#

That one demonstrates up to 1/13th splitter

vast jungle
bleak coral
#

I obviously haven't gotten through it all but the gist I'm getting is the 1/5th trick works for all prime numbers.

#

Nevermind then

torpid robin
#

Or . Just don’t balance lol

vast jungle
#

yes

bleak coral
#

I was wrong

#

Skimming through they talk about the limitations of it, and sadly it kinda undoes one of balancers advantages: warmup time.

That and the throughput limit both apparently get worse the bigger the system, and you need a bigger system for bigger numbers.

#

So just from a cursory look it seems dubious at large scale.

torpid robin
#

It seems dubious at a small scale too lol

#

And it’s funny cause one of the advantages of balancers are the start ul time . But you can negate with by filling a manifold up manually anyway

vast jungle
#

just sent the first train from my spiral-trainstation to oil-city to get some concrete... hopefully it will finally come back (had to fix a couple of tracks)

bleak coral
#

That's still warmup time, you're just not waiting on the belts to deliver, the stuff has to be made and moved. Faster for sure though.

It's just on big/fast enough systems if you turn stuff on as you go and/or fill manually the warmup time isn't much of a problem.

wind spade
#

warmup time is pretty weird thing to optimise for tbh

#

considering it doesn't do anything after it's done

torpid robin
#

Yea normally by the time you have finished the next stage . The last stage should almost have backed up

dusky dust
#

You can always just do a "balancer" without worrying about getting all the ratios correct, 'cause a balancer will "back up" in the same way a manifold does

bleak coral
#

It's something to consider on slow and/or small systems IMO

#

Where the warmup time could be a couple hours, or balancers are really simple and small

dusky dust
#

So if you don't like manifolds but don't want to bother trying to figure out weird ratios, those'll eventually warm up too

torpid robin
#

I’m doing a thing I got off Dan p only with ingots though after they come in on trains . Feed all the lines Into containers . Smart over flow them . And connect the containers together s then you just pull what you want whenever . Or feed in whatever . No balancing needed

bleak coral
#

Personally if you want to balance I still think manipulating clockspeed and machine count to get something divisible by 2 or 3 is a good tool

wind spade
bleak coral
#

And keeping lines separate in the first place instead of merging them

wind spade
#

which is easier to miss in balancers, especially if you do the loopback

dusky dust
#

Heh, sure, you'd have to be careful. Though what I was imagining wouldn't bother with loopbacks and stuff

vast jungle
#

the funny thing is manifolds don't have to be linear... they can be a tree too...

dusky dust
#

Just split semi-evenly until you've got enough outputs to supply your machines (personally I'd just keep all belts at the same tier as the feeder belt) and it'll all even out eventually

#

Though I admit at that point you might as well just manifold anyway. :D

vast jungle
#

sometimes its good to have one manifold per "line" of machines and then use a second manifold to feed the others...

torpid robin
#

Yea just have a single belt feed . Feeding like 3-4 manifolds

bleak coral
torpid robin
#

It’s like multiple manifolds in 1 lol

vast jungle
#

because the split between the manifold lines doesn't have to be "perfect", it will just balance automatically when the "overfed" manifold backlogs...

bleak coral
#

True, shape doesn't matter. It all balances in end.

#

Unless you do some feedback stuff so it can restrict the throughput

torpid robin
#

You can do feed backs. You just gotta be smart where you put it . But why would you need to feed back anyway ? Like on a normal manifold I can see why you would need to

vast jungle
#

you can also add an overflow to a manifold... just put the smart-splitter at the input of the manifold

torpid robin
#

That’s how I do my stock piles

#

So I can say grab 60pm out of my isc

#

And then I just smart over flows to the next one . Then I can grab what I want again

#

So each time I need more I just pull a belt from my group of isc and Itl just do it’s thing

upbeat hinge
# bleak coral Skimming through they talk about the limitations of it, and sadly it kinda undoe...

Generally what I do to deal with warm up time is to setup a buffer container after I build the feeding production line. Turn it on, and let the buffer fill up while I build the consuming line. Once I'm ready to turn on the consuming line, I can either manually pre-load it to deal with the startup time or I can let the buffer push out items at belt speed (if production is much slower than belt speed); as it will fill up the consuming line quickly.

#

This also allows me to test each production line for issues as I go.

bleak coral
#

Yeah that's clever, I like it

#

thought about using storage buffers before, but never bothered.

torpid robin
#

Yea I may steal that

#

I’d delete it after but it’s nice to get a stock to force feed

upbeat hinge
#

Yea totally, buffer storage is definitely removable after it's up and running based on individual factory needs

bleak coral
#

My current thing I'm building though is massive enough that the belts themselves held enough to fill the machines haha

#

at least for the ore

upbeat hinge
#

Yea, when you have a lot of machines and the feeding production is maxing the line, the just manually pre-loading helps.

#

If the items have high stack numbers (like screws/wires), I find preloading by hand works best. But if it's low stack numbers and the production numbers are low compared to belt speed, then the belts will do the job for you (I like being lazy when I can)

torpid robin
#

Same time too though end of day the warm up time is nothing in the way of things . Like why do you need it running right then and there lol . There is always plenty of stuff to do instead of having to wait for something to run

upbeat hinge
bleak coral
#

oh man yeah for sure on screws/wires that storage technique has got to be a godsend

#

it would have help a lot on ficsmas stuff, caues that all stacked to 200/500

upbeat hinge
#

Oh yea, the stacks were crazy on ficmas stuff

#

I'm guessing they did that to make sure even beginner factories could build up large quantities

bleak coral
#

I guess? sucks for manifolds though

#

wish they did the factorio thing where the stack in the machine is only fully filled manually, otherwise it only gets filled like 1/10th or something by belts (or in factorio's case inserters)

upbeat hinge
#

Would be nice if you could set the buffer size on machines (Between something line minimum/m and full stack size)

bleak coral
#

yeah that'd be cool, though even if they could do it unadjustable so it's 2x amount used cycle for the recipe that would be a great improvement

#

so there's enough for the next plus some buffer for errors

dusky dust
#

Heh, yeah, my 72-smelter manifold for red ornaments was quite a delight for buffer-filling. :D

#

I pre-filled all my FICSMAS manifolds 'cause it was pretty absurd otherwise

calm flax
#

you know you can just block the output of the manifold and have it fill its self?

dusky dust
#

Of course. But a 72-machine manifold where things stack to 500 is still no slouch. :)

bleak coral
#

Oh yeah when I talk about filling up a manifold I assume it has no output, that's usually how I set stuff up

dusky dust
#

Even with a mk5 feeder. That's practically an hour of warmup time there

calm flax
#

46.1 minutes :S

dusky dust
#

I actually dislike letting machines run without their outputs already hooked up. I find it annoying to hook things up, realize I made a mistake, and then end up with production detritus in my inventory when I disassemble and rebuild

cursive garnet
#

@dusky dust Sounds almost as bad as my 115 constructor manifold for wire 🙃

dusky dust
#

hah

#

eesh, wire

cursive garnet
#

Iron wire for stitched plates

dusky dust
#

Though I think FICSMAS lines beat that out since practically everything stacks to 500

cursive garnet
#

True

#

But my cable production had around 100 constructors getting filled with wire

dusky dust
#

heh, fun

cursive garnet
#

Yeh it was 🙃

dusky dust
#

I wonder how much wire I'm planning on having in my as-yet-hardly-built-out-at-all base replacement...

#

Ah, only 17 assemblers doing Fused Wire; not bad.

cursive garnet
#

I got like 2 constructor at base doing wire from copper

#

But I have about 48k stored iirc so all my cable production goes into the sink atm

#

Tho I'm gonna turn it into crystal oscillators

fleet python
#

I don't get it...aren't the hard drives supposed to offer like...more convenient recipes? I can't tell which here is better. Wish I was good at this game...lol

📎 unknown.png
sinful vale
#

they offer you to chose between 3 of the recipes you have available

#

you just chose the one you like the most

fleet python
#

ah, so it doesn't really matter?

sinful vale
#

you get more recipes available the more you advance in the game

sinful vale
#

for example, in your case, the one in the right would be the best one of the three

regal canopy
#

Steel rotor is nice, because it uses the same materials as stators, so you can make motors with only steel pipe and wire.

fleet python
#

ohh

#

I think I kind of get it, thanks guys

torpid robin
#

Steel rotors better there for early game . Cheap silica for later on . Cheap silica is better in long run though

glacial hemlock
#

@fleet python just pick whatever you like, there are more drives than the recipes so at the end you will unlock all and yet still have a few extra drives remaining

#

The entire process will take min. 12 hours though, and you gotta explore a lot

torpid robin
#

Yea takes some time to get em all eh lol

fleet python
#

o7 thanks!

fierce ruin
#

Anyone in here has experience with how many train line tracks is required for number of trains operating in the area?

dusky dust
#

At the moment, trains can just clip right through each other, so there's no real limit

#

The main thing you have to watch out for at the moment is that if two trains are close enough to each other, and one's supposed to go one way at a split, and the other's supposed to go the other way, they'll both end up getting diverted to the same path

#

So one will have to waste some time taking the long way around

#

As you add more and more trains to the same set of tracks, the probability of that happening will get higher

fierce ruin
#

So trains will just move through the one in front?

#

Idd had hoped they would balance out, I mean that would have been most satisfying.

dusky dust
#

They intend to do a full overhaul of trains at some point, including collision avoidance, "proper" switching, etc

#

I suspect it's not high on their priority list at the moment though

#

For now, magically-clipping trains it is. :)

torpid robin
#

Not the end of the world if you put plenty of turn arounds in your line

exotic swallow
#

i just make sure trains do not share the same station and all seems to be working just fine for me

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Coughs in "I just filled them up as I went along and it was fine" language :D

oblique hollow
#

Laughs in I-only-deal-with-pipes

frosty owl
#

Sneers at the plumber, despite having used the help multiple times already

oblique hollow
#

Breaks all your refineries

frosty owl
#

Notices how refineries are more then half of the machines in the whole save, exclaims: THAT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE

nimble ridge
#

hey, earlier i asked if it was possible to have 3-4 trains on one loop of track to boost throughput, but was told that they can back up and shit themselves

#

would a solution to that problem be to have each end of the loop of track connected to a bank of multiple train stations, one for each train?

frosty owl
#

Ye

nimble ridge
#

gamer

frosty owl
#

The issue comes when you try to have multiple trains on a single station

#

Since they stack their loading/unloading time and can become useless if they become close to one another, for any reason, as mentioned

vast jungle
#

The solution is to have more train stations

nimble ridge
#

im going to set up a system to bring the eastern bauxite and oil to a platform near my western base, and only do a temporary aluminum setup to prepare for update 4

oblique hollow
#

Or to set the timetable so they dont cross paths

frosty owl
#

I suggest not going over the 1200 items/min for each freight station. That gives you a few seconds of "leisure" in programming the loop for the train

rustic talon
#

Got some really good news!

nimble ridge
#

and the oil i wont use yet i'll just save that for later, i already have fuel oil and plastic

#

but since i'll have to use fluid cars i have to make some beefy train lines

#

they suck, yea? if my memory serves

frosty owl
#

Nah, liquid trains are fine. A few balancings went by

rustic talon
#

I passed my GED Tests at a College level, an today I am going to finalize the paper-work for the military!

frosty owl
#

On those (the fluid freight stations) , I suggest 900/min as a maximum throughput

nimble ridge
#

well wouldnt you pass your GED at a high school level? because thats what it is lol

rustic talon
#

Yes, but you can score in a college level, and that is what I did.

nimble ridge
#

yea man you went to high school so hard you got a college education

rustic talon
#

Lol I hated High School

#

I dropped out because the system was worsening and I felt I had better to do with my life, sure enough 12 years wasted, compared to the FOUR hours it took to take a GED Test.

nimble ridge
#

i spent 4 years at a great highschool, most of it was spent taking electives related to my hobbies, taking classes at the local college for credits to count towards my AA, and working at a part time job to make money to move out soon

upbeat tide
#

High Schools are either hit or miss sadly. You may be in one with teachers that are passionate about their job... or ones that are not sadly

bleak coral
oblique hollow
#

Chuck it into the Blender lol

bleak coral
#

You'll make blend haha

bleak coral
#

alright I'm putting this question up for this channel: If we need a fracking solution to make the new wells work what combination do think it would be?

  1. Just Water
  2. Water + Limestone
  3. Water + Bauxite (for realism)
  4. Water + Silica (also for realism)
tranquil sparrow
#

money+more money= satisfactory

upbeat tide
#

@bleak coral for game balance and resource scarcity, id say #2

cosmic night
#

Guys I am so big brain!

sinful vale
#

good for you

cosmic night
#

1+1=11

#

8x8=704

sand garnet
#

maybe dont spam nonsense

cosmic night
#

When did I spam...

#

I never spamed?

#

@sand garnet wtf

sand garnet
#

i mean that what you think is a haha funny joke, in reality really is not

cosmic night
#

Bro shut up u mean

#

Don’t need be like “OH IT’S NOT FUNNY REALLY NOT”

torpid robin
#

he is right. seriuosly wtf are you even on about

#

not even remotely rellevant to this chat

cosmic night
#

U SEE MATHS IN THE NAME?

sand garnet
#

game related math and meta

#

not for lame jokes

cosmic night
#

It is MATHS

sand garnet
#

go troll some other discord

#

maybe create your own discord

#

have all the math fun you want there

upbeat hinge
#

Some people have nothing better to do

cosmic night
#

Tom AM NOT TROLLING

sand garnet
#

chill on the caps dude

cosmic night
#

Now shut up and stop being mean AND ANNOYING

#

Bro mods tell him to stop

#

<@&387163995947270144>

upbeat hinge
#

Razor, stop wasting my brain cells

torpid robin
#

are you kidding? you are the one being a knob yet pinging mods ? he wasnt even being nasty . grow up and stop being a child

cosmic night
#

Why everyone tell me what not to say and be a asshole about my “jokes”

torpid robin
#

you have 3 people here sayioong you are the one being annoying? what are you 12?

#

because its lame. and this isnt the channel for it

upbeat hinge
#

You could of just moved on, but you are the one making a big deal.

cosmic night
#

God dam IT DID MATHS THIS CHANNEL NAME IS MATH

torpid robin
#

this is a channel where people can actually discuss numbers and difficult stuff. without having it clogged up for random crap like you are spewing

nimble ore
#

👀

cosmic night
#

I told Tom TO STOP BUT HE WON’T

nimble ore
#

stop what

dull bolt
#

Just read the channel description, it's for math and meta regarding factory builds, aka the most efficient.

cosmic night
#

He being mean

nimble ore
#

wow.

sand garnet
#

he wants me to stop telling him his attempt at humor is not funny and this is not the channel for it

upbeat hinge
#

So mean 😢

torpid robin
#

wow tom

cosmic night
#

Tom just stop already

stable oriole
#

Actually according to his YT channel he is 12 or less

torpid robin
#

how dare you tell someone they are saying the wrong stuff in a channel

torpid robin
sand garnet
#

Danger is my middle name

nimble ore
#

@cosmic night Yeah what you wrote sorta disrupts the point of this channel. Move on, talk about efficiency.

torpid robin
#

lol

cosmic night
#

Just STOP AND LEAVE ME ALONE

nimble ore
#

Yes, it's technically math but that's not the point.

upbeat hinge
#

1+1=11 isn’t math in all honesty

#

Not even binary

cosmic night
#

It’s a god dam joke

nimble ore
#

Drop it and move on, or I'll include a formal warning

oblique bloom
#

"1"+"1"="11"

cosmic night
#

Like 1+1 is window

#

Or fish

#

It a joke calm down

#

Anyway am going now

oblique bloom
#

let's talk about how many lizard doggos you need to kill sacrifice to achieve optimum indifference to carry out your job with max efficiency

dull bolt
#

At least 42 no?

oblique bloom
#

at least

sand garnet
#

I felt indifferent at nr 1, actually

torpid robin
#

all of them

nimble ore
torpid robin
#

just slaughter fest

sand garnet
#

I genuinely wonder what the effect will be of this new well system for production limits in the game

torpid robin
#

can we put em in the blender?. thats max efficiecny slaughter

torpid robin
#

unless bauxite limit increase?

sand garnet
#

I assume it's going to increase quite a bit

torpid robin
#

or we can use the gas to increase it some how

sand garnet
#

if we suddenly have a lot more oil, for example

torpid robin
#

cause thats the biggets limit atm

#

but oil isnt a problem anymore. and hasnt been for a wee bit

sand garnet
#

this stuff might cause some alt recipes to change in priority too, for example

torpid robin
#

and im almost assuiming new alrts

sand garnet
#

thats true

#

and yeah with new items = new alts

torpid robin
#

i think its really hard to say atm. yea this is newq stuff for new tiers. but i think the big thing is how they deal with turbo motors. and what the limit of them is. ooorrr maybe seeing as it wont be the best item . people wont max em. so there will be a differebnt route

#

like atm turbo motors is bauxite limited. thats like one route. um how do it put it. like indrustrial partsd.

#

but with sucomps. its more an electronic route. which is limited by cat and quartzx

#

what does these new items take ? inrdustrila parts. or electronic?

sand garnet
#

turbomotors, based on the items for the space elevator, dont really seem like they should be most complex yea

dull bolt
#

New challenge, max of whatever the new most complex tier item is 😄

torpid robin
#

well thats what itl be

#

you may only end up with 50 turbo motors not 156

#

but tbh. i al;most cant see anything using turbo motors in a production line

#

more for building. kinda like how HMF is now

sand garnet
#

it would make sense for a space elevator item to be the most complex

torpid robin
#

yup i agree

sand garnet
#

the final cherry on top, basically

torpid robin
#

but that measn there would need to be an endgame elevator. that doesnt unlock anything. but finishes teh game

#

cause you cant have the most complex item unlock more stuff lol

#

so it wont be able to unlock t7/8

sand garnet
#

well yeah, i wonder if the next update will make it also more reasonable to keep any space elevator production chains running

torpid robin
#

i hope so

sand garnet
#

because I assume most of us have dismantled them after reaching T7 so far

torpid robin
#

thats exactly right.

dull bolt
#

Ye, either that or just keeping it and sink the items.

torpid robin
#

i didnt even make a factory for them,. i hand feed stuff. or pulled a line off storage

#

elevator does need work

#

i like what they had done though. like changing the parts and making it no hand crafting. it was a step in the right direction

sinful vale
torpid robin
#

yaya means we can make 400k!

sinful vale
sinful vale
torpid robin
#

or you meaning the turbo motors?

#

why would a motor be used in fused frames? nothing is moving

#

i think they will be used in alot of the high end buildings.

#

this is all just my opinion of course

sinful vale
sand garnet
#

didnt jace mention it in today's recipe?

#

today's video*

dull bolt
#

Turbo motors usage: Blender and the gas extractor thing most likely. (assuming here but since they are new buildings I'm guessing that's the case)

torpid robin
#

and any other high tier building. like say mk2 things maybe?

dull bolt
#

Maybe, there are probably a bunch of stuff they haven't mentioned yet.

torpid robin
#

i almost reckon any t8 building is gonna take turbo motors

torpid robin
sand garnet
#

just checked the vid, he only says the gas is used in the fused modular frame

#

because of nitric acid

#

but considering the fact that HMF uses MF, it doesnt surprise me if FMF uses HMF

#

and maybe alclad sheets or alu ingots

torpid robin
#

i think in one of the earlier vids. or teaser. it showed the HMF going into it

#

on one of the belts

#

oh or maybe it was the fused frame going in actually

sand garnet
#

yeah in the vid of the blender

torpid robin
#

this is my pick. we gotta make the fused frame. with say HMF and nitrogen . and some other stuff. then maybe we used the qunatum computer ? and fused frame to make the plutonium .like in the new smaller containers. which will give off a much smaller radiation radius

sand garnet
torpid robin
#

aluminum

sand garnet
#

alclad sheets, HMF + nitric acid it seems

regal canopy
#

That looks like HMF and alclad

torpid robin
#

yup

#

i wonder what the otehr pipe would be

#

water?

regal canopy
#

nitrogen gas and water?

sand garnet
#

in this case I assume nothing, might just be connected for show?

regal canopy
#

for nitric acid?

torpid robin
#

eh. idunno. like these teasers do things for a reason dont they

#

i would of thought its gonna get used. but i kinda think itl only be water

sand garnet
#

could just be connected to show the amount of connections

torpid robin
#

yea true.

#

cause you would need the 2 for later for sure

wintry aurora
#

Is the fuse break sound supposed to be louder or quieter than the ingame chainsaw sound? Because I think I missed it over that. Though I was gathering materials at that moment anyway.

regal canopy
#

The chainsaw is hella loud and IIRC they've said they're going to balance that eventually

wintry aurora
#

Or some sort of visual notification that the fuses tripped, other than the machine power indicators..

#

When do I get access to power poles with more than four slots? I'm having to start creating a small grove of them just to add more nodes.

regal canopy
#

in the mam, caterium tree

wintry aurora
#

Caterium? I don't see that word.

regal canopy
#

It's a mineral that you have to find first.

wintry aurora
#

'k

upbeat tide
#

In the MAM its the unknown metallic material

#

Until you find some in the world

wintry aurora
#

And whoops, I just noticed I posted in the wrong channel, sorry about that.

hardy patrol
#

Is there a good way to go 1:10 ?

neon quiver
#

they should add an op system using coal and water but it has tons of steps (so irl) that uses coal vapors and steam with cooling towers that make a tiny but of water and coal as well

neon quiver
hardy patrol
#

yea, I ended up doing 3, 3, 2, 2. It'll work for making concrete from a normal and impure node OC'd to 250 to ultimately proiduce 450 limestone > 150 concrete /minute, which gets dumped into storage for platforming.

sinful vale
sinful vale
vagrant oxide
#

is an mk1 miner on impure limestone going to mine the same amount as normal limestone? Ik the answer is probably no but im checking to see if we want to go the extra mile for a normal limestone deposit or just go with the impure one closer to base

sinful vale
#

an impure node of anything will produce half as much as a normal node

#

and a pure one will produce twice as much as a normal node

vagrant oxide
#

ah, I haven't seen a pure limestone deposit before. I thought you could only find pure ores on special occasions

sinful vale
#

i wouldn't say special occasions, tbh there isn't a tell of the purity of a node without checking it

#

all nodes have a fixed ore and purity that doesn't change between saves, but there isn't a way of telling what purity it has at a glance nor is there a consistent sign for them

vagrant oxide
#

Another problem i have, I have found multiple ores and I don't know what they do as i cant research them on the M.A.M like s.a.m ore and caterium

sinful vale
#

sam ore is useless for the time being, it's gonna be for story stuff, but cat should appear in the MAM

vagrant oxide
#

ah i see. Is somersloop going to be used for anything later too?

sinful vale
#

somersloops and mercer spheres are going to be for the story too, same deal no use for now

vagrant oxide
#

alr. Also adding on the the multiple ores problem, I found quartz and cant research it on the m.a.m Is there any specific ways to find out what they do?

sinful vale
#

same deal as cat, it should have it's own tab in the MAM

vagrant oxide
#

alr cool. Thanks for helping

sinful vale
#

np

neon quiver
unborn lichen
#

hey guys i have 13 fuel generator and i produce 200m3 of fuel,so i dont know if i can package excess fuel

wind spade
#

where do you want to process the excess fuel?

unborn lichen
#

you see i have 150 resin as byproduct so im thinking of turning that into plastic then making canisters to fill with the excess fuel

wind spade
#

and what would you do with the excess fuel?

unborn lichen
#

to be honest im not sure yet

#

maybe fuel my jetpack or my vehicles

wind spade
#

I'd just build 14th generator with 34% underclock to have a bit more power

#

you'll have excess anyway, since generators scale depending on how much power you are using, so you can still do the overflow thing

unborn lichen
#

ok

#

thanks

upbeat tide
#

So, my base is now consuming 3300 copper sheets. I need another 700. I find the nearest copper node to use for this expansion and its pure. So, I decide to maxamize it. Will make me 1950 total more copper sheets.

I forgot how much water steamed sheets uses. Its nuts in comparison.

#

And the poor little pond next to that node isnt big enough for all the needed extractors.

torpid zephyr
#

Cool

upbeat tide
#

More annoying 🙂

#

Cuz that 700 sheets is needed for a 4th silicon circuit board setup. Need 840 of them for computers alone 🙂

#

Planning towards a 60 a min super computer build

torpid zephyr
#

Oh wow

#

Well, good luck with that

upbeat tide
#

And the 180 high speed connectors I will meed 🙂

#

I already make around 160 for nuclear, so its not too bad. I have a build plan I mean

torpid zephyr
#

Nice

upbeat tide
torpid zephyr
#

That's a lot to take in

upbeat tide
#

I filtered out trains for this to show all the factories

little lake
#

Wtf

torpid zephyr
#

That's insane

little lake
#

Im scared

upbeat tide
#

The mass blob of assemblers is cheap silica and fused quickwire only

#

Seperste floors tho

torpid zephyr
#

Well, i'd hope there were more than one floor

upbeat tide
#

Then there are

  • two AI limiter plants
  • 1 infused uranium cell plant
  • 1 alt crystal ocilator plant
  • steel ingots plant
  • steel pipes plant
  • quickwire stator plant
  • silicon high speed connector plant
  • alt electromag control rod plant,
  • 4x silicon circuit board plants (one not finished)
  • 1 NFR plant
torpid zephyr
#

WTF

#

That's alot and insane

upbeat tide
#

And I have

  • 12 belts of silica, 700/min
  • 34 belts of quickwire
    32 of which are at 450/min
    2 at 545/min
torpid zephyr
#

Jeez

#

It's so much but it's needed

upbeat tide
#

And 90% of the silica/quickwire is used 🙂

torpid zephyr
#

Nice

#

How many hrs you got in the game

upbeat tide
#

A while ago I wanted nuclear and decided to max it. Then decided to only do 1/3, but max the non radioactive stuff

#

Almost 1000 id guess

torpid zephyr
#

Wow

#

I have 400 about

upbeat tide
#

Nice!

torpid zephyr
#

I'm trying to get better at the whole efficiency part of the game and massing my stuff/builds

upbeat tide
#

Yea, I spend more time planning, contemplating than anything else 🙂

torpid zephyr
#

Planning is a big part of this game

sand garnet
#

not really

#

you can do a lot without planning

#

planning only really comes into play when you start caring about efficiency

torpid zephyr
#

True

jade minnow
#

I'm wasting the most time making the factory look neat. The planning is easy with the online calculators

#

I mean they literally tell you how many machines you need. Especially in the beginning I found it hard to place the machines and do the belt work

torpid zephyr
#

Ah ok

frosty owl
neon quiver
wind spade
neon quiver
#

bc. if it backs up everything stops

frosty owl
#

Bruh, you obviously use fuel to make plastic. If you got the recipe, it's way better then sinking it

wind spade
#

well fuel should have dedicated production line anyway, since your generators almost never use 100% of it

#

and yeah, if you want to overflow fuel somewhere, put it into recycling loop

upbeat tide
#

I like to recommend building plastic or rubber recycling setups independent of fuel for power production.

wind spade
#

^ that

tardy iron
#

So if I'm using the calc website correctly does 240 iron ore per minute make 20 rotors per minute with no alternates?

sand garnet
twilit plinth
#

How can i produce the same amount of steel beams and steel pipes from 480 steel per minute?

wind spade
wind spade
twilit plinth
zinc sedge
twilit plinth
zinc sedge
wind spade
zinc sedge
wind spade
mortal wave
#

How exactly do I load balance 6 360 belts into 9 240 belts

sinful vale
#

you don't, just manifold it

#

wait, you have mk5 belts?

mortal wave
#

no this is for my aluminium factory

sinful vale
#

well, ok, you do have to balance then

#

easiest way would be with 3 sets of 2:3

#

you grab 3 machines you need to input to and connect 1 belt to each one on the sides, put a splitter on each and merge both in the one in the center

#

repeat 3 times to cover all the machines

sharp sapphire
#

anyone around that can help me make my factory more efficient?

vast jungle
zinc sedge
slender thunder
#

ayyo, how many smelters do I need without overclocking using an mk2 on pure vein?

#

8 right?

zinc sedge
#

Mk2 pure = 240/min. You need belt Mk3

severe raven
#

Yeah

slender thunder
#

I have mk3 belts

zinc sedge
#

ahh smelters

severe raven
#

Smelters use 30/min ore

slender thunder
#

so 8

zinc sedge
#

4

severe raven
#

No it’s 8

zinc sedge
#

8

#

Its pure

slender thunder
#

xD is it late there?

zinc sedge
#

I've just got up. I need some coffee.

slender thunder
#

for me its early in the morning

zinc sedge
#

Here is 08:23.

slender thunder
#

im one hour ahead

wind spade
wind spade
vast jungle
#

how many train stations would you use for resource exportations... can a station handle full belt linespeed (with enough trains), does it need to be limited to a lower rate or can I combine two belts on the same station?

#

I just made a check for Sulfur and Caterium, which are closely together on my map position... I have 1080 Caterium (but I use ~240 locally) and 750 Sulfur to export. Is one train station for Sulfur and one for Caterium enough?

wind spade
vast jungle
wind spade
#

yeah

#

or add more platforms 🤷‍♂️

bleak coral
#

add more cars/platforms is better

#

trains don't play nice if they share stations

vast jungle
#

my current plan is to use only "4 platform" stations... so at the moment the plan would be "1st platform on station is Caterium, 2nd platform is Sulfur, 3rd is factory output"

bleak coral
#

would each of those need it's own train?

#

the problem with sharing stations is that the trains have to wait on eachother which can throw off the round trip time and hurt throughput

vast jungle
#

maybe... depending on the receiver... if the receiver only needs one of the resources, it would add some fluid train cars to the positions it don't need

#

maybe I could add a 3rd station at the position... 1 for delivering resources to the factory, and 2 stations (with a total of 8 freight terminals) for getting the local resources and the factories output away

bleak coral
#

also it all depends on round trip time, it's really hard to actually get a station that can support two full 780 belts

#

it has to be really fast

vast jungle
#

you mean freight terminal or station?

#

(I am limited to MK4 belts at the moment anyways)

bleak coral
#

throughput per car/freight terminal

#

it's a function of the round trip time and stack size

vast jungle
#

so limiting the input of a freight terminal (especially for resources) to 480/min could be a good idea? Even when I get mk5 Belts later?

bleak coral
#

situational, you've got to time your trip and see what the max throughput is

vast jungle
bleak coral
topaz hedge
#

I have two trains sharing a station to get 960 throughput per car, so far, I've been fairly lucky I guess, but they do seem to be playing nicely. I defintily don't recommend doing it as every once in awhile, the trains will somehow start getting to the same station at the same time and I'll have to manually stop one for a minute and start it again. after that it's normally good for about a week before it happens again

#

I ran out of room for platforms and didn't guess correctly the round trip time. I was about 15-20 seconds off from just needing 1 train.

twilit plinth
vast jungle
topaz hedge
#

It's moving lol. I needed the capacity to move 14 mk4 belts of plastic/rubber setup from the oil ocean in the north to the factory in dunes.

#

With the update around the corner don't go too big on your "supercomputer" factory. It's safe to say you'll still need lots of raw material, so having the infastructure built for it never hurts :p

vast jungle
#

Currently my train setup is overkill, but I like to work on infrastructure...

#

Now I "just" have to hook it up... Will be especially "funny"for my main base...

glacial hemlock
#

@bleak coral it is impossible to sustain 2 full belts due to the loading/unloading mechanic

#

Also, 2m3sec for a round-trip is pretty impractical

upbeat tide
#

@glacial hemlock have not seen you around in a bit. Doing well?

vast jungle
glacial hemlock
#

@vast jungle can.

#

@upbeat tide yeah, playing some astroneer while waiting for U4

upbeat tide
#

Nice!

meager cradle
#

is 600 fuel exactly 40 generators?

calm flax
#

yes

meager cradle
#

thanks. Was trying to make sure I wouldn't need to do any fancy nonsense with the mk2 pipes for my generators

upbeat tide
#

Regular fuel burns at 15 a minute considering 100% clock speed

vast jungle
#

Has someone a good idea what do do with for trains when you have lots of different kinds of things you want to load on different trains? I don't want to build one station per type of item, that just doesn't make sense

magic shadow
#

empty platforms @vast jungle

bleak coral
#

you don't need one station per item if one train can make the round trip in time for the throughput. to avoid mixing belts they just need to be in different cars

vast jungle
#

@magic shadow that helps to save trains, but not train stations

magic shadow
#

belt everything to one in station?

bleak coral
#

that'd be the only way to avoid having more stops

#

one pickup station and one drop off station

vast jungle
#

@magic shadow That doesn't make sense... if you have belts coming together somewhere, you don't need trains anymore

magic shadow
#

well what do you want then

vast jungle
#

example... I have a supercomputer factory that is also the closest infrastructure for my Sulfur and Caterium... of course the factory needs lots of stuff...
I plan to have a single station to deliver everything to the factory, splitting it afterwards with smart splitters (except for the caterium, which is mined locally)

So I need the factory to export (at least) Supercomputers, Sulfur and Caterium... and thats unless I can siphon off some interesting side-products.

But building FOUR trans station just for this factory is insane

#

even the two train stations I attached at the side are nearly as long as the factory itself

magic shadow
#

honestly i was planning smth similar and budgeting for upwards of 10 train stations

#

so how much of each do you need to export and how far

bleak coral
#

trains are big 🤷‍♂️

vast jungle
#

at the moment the factory has 1080 Caterium and 750 Sulfur available... and use (I think) 240 of the Caterium...

vast jungle
magic shadow
#

per minute right

vast jungle
#

yes

magic shadow
#

are they all exporting to one place

vast jungle
#

no

#

not sure who will need the caterium... most of the sulfur will go to my powerplant, some of it (most likely) to a (yet to be built) weapon factory

magic shadow
#

well if it is all not yet to be built just sink it for now

vast jungle
#

the problem is that I cannot send a train to fetch the Sulfur without getting the Caterium too if they are on the same station...

and as I said, "on station per resource type" doesn't scale because of the huge size of stations

magic shadow
#

yes it does though

#

if you keep the train oriented the same way

sand garnet
#

you can just put them in different freight platforms?

magic shadow
#

exactly

vast jungle
#

yes I can... but how do I prevent them being loaded on a train?

#

there is no "empty train car", right?

magic shadow
#

different platforms

sand garnet
#

there's an empty platform

#

so you can use that

vast jungle
#

empty platforms don't help

magic shadow
#

yes there iis empty platform

sand garnet
#

they do, if you just make the train longer

magic shadow
#

yes they do they provide space for a car not to be loaded/unloaded

vast jungle
#

wrong problem

sand garnet
#

same problem, different solution

vast jungle
#

no

sand garnet
#

it's a workaround

magic shadow
#

show me ur train and point out exactly what you mean pls

vast jungle
#

assume I have a train collecting Sulfur for my powerplant, oaky?

bleak coral
#

you only need train spacers if more than one train is using a station which is a bad idea anyway

bleak coral
vast jungle
#

using a train station with only a single train sounds insane...

bleak coral
#

that's where we're at, trains aren't that developed

vast jungle
#

using locomotives for spacers might be an idea... power hungry but at least an option

bleak coral
#

we have no signalling, logic, collision

#

just trains going round and round or back and forth

sand garnet
#

it would solve your issues too

vast jungle
#

yes, might be... hell, even an empty wagon would solve my issue... I might just use Locomotives as empty wagons...

#

a setting in the train timetable where you can checkbox which wagon will be handled at this stop by the train would also be a great addition

calm flax
#

@vast jungle Yeah i think trains need some improvements. I would want at least the checkbox. Also "wait until % full option would be nice"

glass flicker
#

has anyone here tried extreme underclocking?

bleak coral
#

yes

calm flax
#

@glass flicker Everyone should have.... Iif they made biofuel in the early game efficently on a mk1/2 belts

bleak coral
#

if you go low enough on a low powered machine it goes below idle power

vast jungle
#

great... I just noticed the idea of a common receiver Train Station based on Smart Splitters doesn't work either

glass flicker
#

yeah, I've worked out that idle/standby is 0.1Mw

calm flax
#

@vast jungle umm why not? I use it... but not for bulk items. For incoming slow items eg things which are being built at rates of < 100min

vast jungle
glass flicker
#

and that a Pure Limestone can feed 8 "1% Constructors" for each 3%

calm flax
#

Oh you need and overflow + sink on the receiving end

glass flicker
#

I'm trying to see how far I can get on Hub only power

vast jungle
calm flax
#

Yes. Or you could "return it" in another train carriage.... and remerge it upstream for delivery again later

#

When i say sink. I really don't always means awesome sink. It just must be dealt with in some way

vast jungle
#

okay, putting it back on the train with a second station could work.

calm flax
#

Now if you remember the problem i had about a week ago with the belt priority shifting so the belts would fill in order. That is what this is about 😉

vast jungle
#

the belt priority thing was easy compared to make trains work without giving every factory a station 10* as large as the factory

calm flax
#

Yeah but for my factories I have not had to use a station longer than 4 sections yet....

bleak coral
calm flax
#

It also why i was calculating timings per truck eg 4 carriages @ 780/min with a stack size of 100 = a round trip time of ~16 minutes. So one of the other steps I do is compress materials as quickly as possible. eg its cheaper to transport later items rather than raw materials. eg a renforced plate will never need more than 1 carriage 🙂

#

Cause you never really need to build them in rates > 600/min or so

bleak coral
#

small side effect though, you do need enough max capacity to add the machine because it won't use the new power right away it starts at 100%

calm flax
#

Or if you do. they are going to be coming from multiple sources

vast jungle
calm flax
#

how do you mean too many products? Like if you end up with too many items produced and not consumed?

vast jungle
#

too many KINDS of products

calm flax
#

Like too many different product types?

vast jungle
#

I don't want to build one station for each input and each output type for a factory

calm flax
#

I assume output is limited to 1 per factory? or you doing more complex factories?

vast jungle
#

my supercomputer factory would need SEVEN train stations

#

(and thats just a factory with a single output item)

calm flax
#

Yeah I don't build the factories that way. for example a complex factory that I would have would distibute the super computer factory

#

So a super computer factory cannot have more than 4 input stations. Since it will never require more than 4 items in the manufactor. But the computers to get into the supercomputer factorty are built elsewhere

vast jungle
#

not sure it would make sense to build 5 train stations (4 input, 1 output) for feeding one or two Manufacturers for Supercomputers...

calm flax
#

For example my crystal ossilator factor would have 4 stations. 3 in and 1 out. (basic recipe)

📎 unknown.png
#

Funny enought he footprint of the train stations of 2x2 is about the same as the footprint of the manufactures on top.

fierce ruin
#

It seems I have quite the task ahead of me, and I'm gonna do all of this in a single factory.

📎 unknown.png
calm flax
#

However the 5th station in a case like could be shared.... and it would only every need to be 1 platform long. Since things like turbo motors, crystal ossilators, supercomputers have such slow output rates your not going to overflow a single train carriage.

fierce ruin
#

my current factory floor size is 11x11, would that be enough to contain the image i sent in like a few floors, or w/e, or should I increase the size to 17x17?

vast jungle
#

depends on your tier... as soon as you need Manufacturers or even Refineries (for Pure Ingots) 11x11 is not large

calm flax
#

@outer agate The question cannot be answered. Or its answered yes. Because your 11x11 factory could have 20+ floors high.....

fierce ruin
#

I dont even have tier 5/6 unlocked, the image I sent is my factory blueprint for the next space elevator

outer agate
#

Wrong Sky 👀

fierce ruin
#

I was wondering why i didnt get pinged lol

#

so yeah, I'll top off my floor that im one (floor one lol) and build a 17x17 foundation floor above it

glass flicker
#

@bleak coral I think its not actually the displayed value being used, I've got a factory running at 11.1MW, by adding up all the parts I think are working I get to 10.91 MW (with around 140 factories)

vast jungle
#

hmm... I just had an insane idea... I could build a huge station that collects all the raw ores, maybe even refine them into ingots and then has one train station for each other factory where it puts together the mix the factory needs... still, this sounds more than a bit insane

calm flax
#

@vast jungle The other thing to consider is putting input stations back to back like i do in that 2x2 setup. eg that 2x2 setup for crystal ossilators. The input and out station only need 2 seconds each because re-enforced played for 25 manufaturers is going to be in the region of 50/min deliver rate (1 truck always)

vast jungle
#

stations "head-2-head" would become (no pun intended) a headache as soon as they activate train collisions and/or signals

calm flax
#

don't think so. You just need a longer run into the station eg a holding line for the backlog

oblique hollow
#

You just need more junctions and tracks that allow trains to pass by

vast jungle
#

pass-by's cost a lot of space... if your train station is only 4 foundations long, you waste (most likely) another 4 foundations to get the passby

#

you can do 2 stations behind each other an can get away with 2 foundations for a "pass-by" if you move one of them sideways 2 foundations...

#

still, not a solution for more than 2

oblique hollow
#

If you want a pass by, if we ever get signals then you dont need a train station there. Just switch a signal to "stop"

vast jungle
#

and (from what I just tested) you cannot build an "x-style" passby, because the rails snap in the middle to the wrong one. the shape is possible, but you cannot build it

oblique hollow
#

Collision and Signals are needed for each other

vast jungle
#

hmm... the standard layout for "many stations" would be to put them besides each other... which means you need ~3 additional foundations on each side to get the 90° turn and connect all of them. So the minimum width of this "train station manifold" 😉 would be 10 foundations (3 in, 2 train station, 2 freight station, 3 out)

#

I wonder if it would be better to rotate the stations by 45°...

#

or 60° (45 is not possible without a mod)

oblique hollow
#

Why would i have multiple stations besides each other, besides 2 seperate loading / unloading stations

vast jungle
#

because factories tend to have multiple types of input?

#

and sometimes multiple types of output?

oblique hollow
#

... Add more freight cars?

vast jungle
#

that doesn't work... unless you have a special train station which assembles an exact train for THIS station input.

#

because you cannot easily deliver to one freight platform and ignore a different one.

#

I have (as an example) a supercomputer factory... it needs Caterium, Quartz, Copper, Rubber, Plastic and some Iron...
the only "good" (if you ignore the size) solution I have heard is to build 6 trainstations for the delivering the resources to the factory

oblique hollow
#

Usually you have a train of set length run between stations.

#

I dont quite see how you cant work with that

upbeat tide
#

My solution to trains is to have a single item train setup. Such as if its a train carrying copper sheets, thats all it does. No mixing of other products.

I tried mixed trains, have a active one, but its a PITA

vast jungle
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I had thought trains were a good solution to solve the insane "one-to-one" belt problem... having a train station (or multiple) at the border of a factory where you deliver all the inputs and gather all the outputs...

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but this requires A LOT of train stations

oblique hollow
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You mean one to one items rates?

calm flax
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Well they are. But it depends how you break the paths up.... I don't seem to be having the same problems as you with them. But i do my builds very differently

oblique hollow
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The only times this problem comes up is if you try to go for a magical all-in-one factory

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Which is horrible design practice

vast jungle
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having a factory for each "production step" sounds boring from my perspective...

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just a line of "all the same" machines with a single input/output manifold

oblique hollow
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You saw where the all in one path led you

calm flax
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Well kinda. But it gives you massive flexability which makes it interesting again

vast jungle
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the "all in one path" led me to all kind of interesting puzzling how to put the necessary parts together in a single building... maybe even on a single floor

oblique hollow
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The all in one lacks flexibility and expandability.
Also they usually are bigger, which is a framerate killer

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The all in one is just one step away from the 5x5 challenge

vast jungle
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like I said, these "doing only one job in a factory" sounds boring for me... would be a good way to quickly stop playing this game I had so much fun with

oblique hollow
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Well, it is your right to hold that opinion

calm flax
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Well its not always exactly 1 job in a factory.... You can do more than one step if you like. but what you don't do is too many steps

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It makes things a logestic problem rather than fit it in a building problem

oblique hollow
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But all-in-ones are inherently chaotic if you dont somehow plan the entire structure, and i do not want that kind of chaos. I play this game and try to not be as chaotic

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Like you said, the main problem is "how the hell do i get my items from A to B without spaghetti^3"

vast jungle
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not really... some belts are a bit more tricky, but normally 80% of the necessary groups of machines are placed in a way to minimize spagetti

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the spagetti problem happened more on the outside of my bases... especially because the density of resource nodes is quite high around my mainbase... thats why I hoped trains would solve the problem for getting stuff between (distant) factories... but it looks like they create a lot of issues too

oblique hollow
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Sounds more like a problem that requires more planning to be solved.

calm flax
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The other suggestion i would make would be not to train them as part of your factory. But treat them more like resource node on the outskirts....

vast jungle
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my current problem is mainly to ignore or accept that I spent 2 weeks building train tracks only to discover that there is no "fluid car" for trains... which would resolve half of my problems

calm flax
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i noticed that to. Did they remove it?

vast jungle
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no, its just the same train car... it can do both, depending on the point it halts

calm flax
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cause there certainly used to be. But also you would be disappointed with them... they have "issues"

vast jungle
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I wanted to use these cars as "fillers" to be able to load stuff from (lets say) freight terminal 1, 3 and 4... but not from terminal 2

oblique hollow
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Wdym. Fluid Cars still exist

vast jungle
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still, the idea with "one receiver station, then smart splitters" has its own issues... so both my idea how to handle input and output was flawed

dusky dust
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Yeah, transporting fluids by train is certainly possible

vast jungle
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yes, it is

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its just not a separate type of car

oblique hollow
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Its just done by a different freight platform

vast jungle
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exactly

dusky dust
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(though with the caveat that the cars don't have a huge amount of capacity; if you're willing to spend the power+material to package/unpackage you can probably get more per car, but ehh)

vast jungle
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I never wanted to move liquids by train... I wanted to add these cars to a train to prevent them from loading things I don't want in "that" train... I can emulate that by adding more Locomotives... but as I said, the receiver side is also an issue.

oblique hollow
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So whats prevents you from loading a bit of fluid onto a car to make the normal freight station skip it

vast jungle
oblique hollow
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.... You cant load/unload solids onto a fluid-loaded freight car and vice versa

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And Fluid cars are always "pure"

vast jungle
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AHH... okay, thats an interesting idea

oblique hollow
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Learned that trick from Smerkin

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That way you can make freight platforms skip cars

vast jungle
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now I just need to get some fluid into the train car... that might be tricky but not impossible

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I could build a "fill up" station that just loads a train with water... and then empty the parts I need

oblique hollow
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Just have a station somewhere off to prep the train, then drive it onto the main track

vast jungle
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exactly

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"Mc Water" 😉

oblique hollow
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You dont need to load every car anyway

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Unless you plan to make some kind of one for all solution

dusky dust
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What would the benefit of that be versus just putting one of those "empty" platforms instead?

vast jungle
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you can have a train station that has one platform for coal, one for iron and one for copper... and then send a train to just get coal

oblique hollow
dusky dust
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Oh, oh, for like mixed-use stations then?

oblique hollow
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Kinda. Maybe you have a train that needs coal, but coal is at the very last station. And another train also uses that station to pick up other stuff

vast jungle
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yes, because each station has quite a bit of "static" overhead... the necessary space to get it connected on both sides and the "train station" for the locomotive itself. Sometimes you don't want to waste the space to build four trainstations just to transport off 4 kinds of resources

oblique hollow
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So you load fluids onto cars to prevent that one train from picking up unnecessary stuff

dusky dust
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Gotcha

fierce ruin
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or you put a locomotive in that spot simon_smile

oblique hollow
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This solution is for 1 station passed by many trains. The empty platform solution is for 1 train passing many stations

vast jungle
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the locomotive trick does consume quite a bit of power if you do this with LOTS of trains 😉

oblique hollow
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I mean with lots of "empty" cars you will need at leas 1 more loco eventually

fierce ruin
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so does an extra stop to load water, doesnt it?