#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 498 of 1

bleak coral
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yes

topaz hedge
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yes u should.

rustic talon
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It will make the process easier in the long run, trust me

bleak coral
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if you want safety you can wire it so that the generators needed to keep the power running are on their own grid powering just the stuff fueling the plant

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that way that won't trip if you trip the main grid

rustic talon
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I will be building a massive power plant shortly

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I'm thinking 200+ Coal Generators?

bleak coral
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you can also wire it so that say the iron plant has one wire attaching it to the main grid before branching off, so you can easily cutoff pieces of your factory as needed

hasty basin
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I will move into the desert soon I think so Space is not a big problem

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Also the miners work even if im not near them

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so say one miner is 2000m away they still mine right ?

bleak coral
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yup

topaz hedge
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yup

hasty basin
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thank god

bleak coral
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this game is all about infinitely running, sustainable factories

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except technically nuclear, but you can make it last long enough to not worry about it

topaz hedge
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I would just hook everything into one grid, if I were you, leave some kind of easy way to disconnect the wire feeding into your factory/leaving your powerstation(s) or don't. it really doesn't matter.

vast jungle
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Hi... I am still looking for space efficient solutions for vertical lifts (with more height than a single conveyer belt).

At the moment I have a solution with four belts within 1 foundation. Do you think its worth to look for something better?

hasty basin
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also is there any efficient way to transport a whole base ?

frosty owl
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I don't have much Exp in this sort of things, so there may be better solutions still

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Btw, all solutions I may provide are rigorously clip-free

vast jungle
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at the moment I am using the four corners and rotating with each conveyer lift limit...

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not sure I can even use the center of the foundation, because there wouldn't enough space to attach a lift

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(within a single foundation)

hasty basin
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You could use a lift to connect one long to another long lift

vast jungle
hasty basin
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Hmm I cant think of a better solution

vast jungle
frosty owl
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What am I even saying... Check edits, as it's not "6" and "7" but "8" and "9"

topaz hedge
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I think I've done something like that, 3 triple conveyor walls stacked for 9 belts.. it was a pita and took forever, I don't think it fit in a 4m foundation either

vast jungle
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The other (more reasonable) solution might be to start a new factory... Maybe a supercomputer or crystal oscillator factory... Hmm...

vast jungle
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what rate of supercomputers is a good start? Basic rate is 2.5/min... I don't see them very useful except for Programmable Splitters...

frosty owl
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The basic is plenty enough for most uses 👍

rustic talon
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Okay.... sooo I’m going to build a 100 Coal Gen system......

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Then when I get the more coal nodes I will then add 100 more

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So 200 total, but I have a different way of building the system this time

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Last time I made it look good, but this time I’m going to make it look much much much better

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I feel 200 is enough for late game design?

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Well uhm 15000 should be enough for somewhat a late game design

vast jungle
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Do you plan to do your whole power generation on coal?

rustic talon
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Eventually swap, but I might just keep coal, I have yet to decide

vast jungle
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I delayed mine too until I had the Alts for a full Turbofuel Plant

rustic talon
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I know 15,000 mwh would get me late game.

vast jungle
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my turbofuel plant will generate 500 Turbofuel/Min when fully assembled... but I have not placed all refineries... each "generator floor" has 30 generators... I think at the moment there are 40 generators in total... in the end there should be ~110 generators, producing 16 GW of power... I extend the refinieries and generators as I need them, but the fuel generation part (especially the diluting cycle) is already finished

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funny thing... turbofuel takes more coal/sulfur than oil ^^

rustic talon
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I have ever only produced Fuel power plants, never turbo... but interesting nontheless

vast jungle
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Main issue at the moment is that I don't deliver enough sulfur and coal to the plant for "full power"

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Maybe a good time to make a long take expedition and build a train track to deliver coal and sulfur to the plant

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hmm... sulfur is not really trainfriendly 😉

frosty owl
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I don't understand this thinking_helmet

vast jungle
frosty owl
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Ahhh ahaha, true

vast jungle
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best might be the pure sulfur node in the north-east corner... it also has LOTS of coal around it

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but thats a crazy long distance

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still, the north-east desert has a few nice Caterium, Sulfur, Quarz and Copper nodes...

not that I need any of it currently ^^

frosty owl
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You're looking very far for someone who sits on 3 nodes very close by ^^

vast jungle
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I already tap two of them... one impure and one normal... I think together they produce 240/min currently (which was the belt limit when I built the miners)

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the third Sulfur node is 200+ meter higher 😠

hasty basin
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Assuming by the fact you already need new nodes, building miners there and building belts to ur base sounds like a fun and usefull adventure :)

vast jungle
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I was looking for an excuse to build a train system, but I don't have one

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Just to deliver rubber and plastic to my main base is overkill.... Just not enough distance

shrewd yacht
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Have the same issue... feel the distance is to short. Its 2km from western oil to grassy start so I belt over the plastic and rubber

vast jungle
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strange... I have a pipeline junction cross that doesn't align itself along "straight" lines...

the existing pipe goes up the wall and I want to attach something horizontal... but the cross doesn't align parallel to a wall

shrewd yacht
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not sure what you mean by that

vast jungle
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I will post a picture when I come back online

fierce ruin
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use scroll wheel

frosty owl
median sorrel
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Do we know what will break next update? I assume bauxite production will break. I am slightly cringing at the idea that the turbo fuel stuff could change since I sunk so much time into it, but I understand if it is.

sinful vale
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they haven't said anything about changes to t fuel

median sorrel
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Oh, I thought we were just supposed to save up on supercomputers?

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Also, the diluted fuel thing seems really op.

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Can you literally infinitely dilute fuel over and over?

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It doesn't seem to distinguish between fuel and diluted fuel

sinful vale
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once the update hits, the production lines for those will basically die and those are a supply to last you until you set them up again

median sorrel
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let me set aside a bunch of double chests

sinful vale
median sorrel
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Also, I made a box of every space elevator component just in case

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I never wanna see those round ones again

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.<

sinful vale
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if you got tier 7 unlocked already i would guess you won't need any of the new elevator parts to make tier 8, so i think you will be fine with that

vast jungle
median sorrel
topaz hedge
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In a couple of days my new factory will produce 20 of those round ones a minute (:

sinful vale
median sorrel
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I actually already figured that out, but forgot lmao XD

sinful vale
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same way as you add water to ores to get more ingots

vast jungle
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The cycle in the "fuel dilution cycle"is about the cannisters

calm flax
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Anyone have any decent layouts for offloading from a train station to make sure the belts are maxed out in order?

cursive garnet
calm flax
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So like if I have a train 8 long. With iron ore miners of random sizes filling each car. When it arrives at the destination i would like it to offload on the bases of the first belt will run at maximimum even if the first car is short on items

cursive garnet
calm flax
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no its not....

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let me put together an example using sotrage containers as train station unit's

cursive garnet
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Oki

calm flax
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ok so

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What i am trying to do is make sure the bottom belt is running at max. even if container 1 is empty using a smart splitter

cursive garnet
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I don't think I understand what you're trying to do, sorry

calm flax
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make sure the lastest belt in the stack is always populated first regardless of how many items are in which containers

cursive garnet
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Then have a smart splitter that prioritizes splitting to the right if that's doable

calm flax
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yup but has to work for N containers

cursive garnet
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1 sec

calm flax
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For in that case it works for the first and second. Simple set the smart splitter to overflow. But if it overflow then you loose items from belt 2. So therefore they must be replaced by belt 3

cursive garnet
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lemme log on and see if I can come up with a solution

calm flax
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However belt 3 cannot feed items to belt 1

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which would be required if belt 2 is empty.

cursive garnet
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How space efficient does it need to be?

shrewd yacht
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you'll have to do some split merge mess to balance the belts

calm flax
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well it has to scale to like 8+ belts

shrewd yacht
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oh dear! thats going to be a mess

calm flax
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i know thats why i am asking 🙂

shrewd yacht
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and its going to use a lot of space

vast jungle
calm flax
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Well yes. So max out belts in sequance eg belt 1 fills first, then 2 then 3 then 4 etc...

shrewd yacht
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how many inputs and outputs is it 8 both?

vast jungle
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I would guess it takes a size proportional to the squared number of belts

calm flax
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yup it appears to be an N*N problem

vast jungle
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give each belt an overflow splitter and merge the result... do this n times (n = number of belts) and you have your sorted belts

shrewd yacht
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if you've got 8 cars then thats 16 belts out to 8 belts

vast jungle
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you could organize it as a grid...

calm flax
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yeah which might come out at the first 5 full the 6th partial and 7, 8 empty

vast jungle
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one layer in "X direction" for the input channels, one layer in "Y direction" with the output channels

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doesn't sound difficult, just a "bit" of work

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I would guess a 8 belt version would need 8*8 foundations and one conveyer lift height

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scales as long as you have enough space 😉

shrewd yacht
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no idea where to even being splitting and merging this tbh

calm flax
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i think its more complex than that when you try it

vast jungle
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hmm... I am thinking about building a 3*3 prototype 😉

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want to stick around and see the result?

shrewd yacht
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are all belts fully used as well?

calm flax
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well the point is to take a mix /mash up of feeds and sort them into full feeds

shrewd yacht
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found it really hard to use trains if you consume to fast from stations

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they are so slow to stop and unload that if you've got 2x780 belts out they are empty before next train unloads

calm flax
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The larger story would be a train station named "Ingot processor" which which can deal with 8+ trucks mixed but would automatically shutdown floors of smelters if the belts are empty

shrewd yacht
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think even 2x480 managed to drain them to fast

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how about making two stations with 4 cars?

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then you can merge those into the belts

calm flax
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I kinda want it for other things too 🙂

shrewd yacht
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the station?

vast jungle
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I think I got the pattern... it quite easy to setup

shrewd yacht
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or the setup solution?

calm flax
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its a "pre scaling solution to scaling up"

weak plinth
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Question: Is your first (highest priority) belt guaranteed to use items at full speed? If so it's easy

calm flax
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yup it would be

shrewd yacht
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problem is that if the belts are consumed at full you wont be able to feed them 100% once one of the station platforms is empty no matter what you do

calm flax
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The simple side of the problem is consider a building of smelters of N floors (same as belt count) each able to process at 780/min and you want 1 floor to active at a time

shrewd yacht
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then you prio split for that floor

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you can set a row of splitters and prio split one direction and it will keep filling that belt and then the next and so on

calm flax
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well yes. but that needs done N times right?

vast jungle
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I think I have a 3*3 version done

shrewd yacht
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but as soon as one of the platforms are empty one belt might not get anything

vast jungle
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can scale as large as you want, doesn't depend on belt sizes

weak plinth
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Then you can simply lead out the items from the station directly into a merger line going along the station, put a smart splitter in overload mode in between each station. Those are your outputs. All items will move to the first belt first. Very compact.

vast jungle
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for N belts you need NxN smart splitters, NxN mergers and NxN conveyer lifts

weak plinth
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Duplicate that setup on the upper output for maximum speed.

vast jungle
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what do you think?

calm flax
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not sure on don't fancy an 8*8 version :S

vast jungle
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the 8x8 would look the same... just 8 rows and 8 columns

calm flax
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I also think there may be an additional problem

vast jungle
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64 splitters, 64 mergers, 64 conveyer lifts... 8x8 foundation size, 2 foundations high

calm flax
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after merging with the first belt so many times. Its original input ends up with a much lower priority?

vast jungle
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this mechanism just makes sure that stuff that arrives from to right/bottom will fill up the first belt going to the top/right, then the next one and only if necessary to last one

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the lower layers are the smart splitters, the upper one the mergers...

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each smart splitter is configured to do "any" to the right and "overflow" to center

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think about it as 3 times getting a merge of all three belts... the overflow goes into the next merger line

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@calm flax if you want I can do a screen share and explain what I think this thing is doing

calm flax
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yeah i think its doing the same as what i came up with but causes a problem by blocking the input

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I guess its needs an overflow from the first into back into the others as a first step or something

vast jungle
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It should only block the input if all three output belts are blocked... otherwise the overflow-channel would just continue to transport everything forward

weak plinth
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You guys are right, my proposal doesnt run at full speed. I think I might have a similar, compact one though. I'm testing it out. Might need it myself at some point.

vast jungle
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any more comments on my proposal?

calm flax
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@vast jungle yeah see what you mean now. Just recreated what you had there. Seems to work well actually 🙂

vast jungle
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should be easy to build at any size... even just in an "under the floor" area of a factory 😉

calm flax
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well yeah under train station

vast jungle
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sorry, I like puzzles like this... I could not resist

calm flax
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This also has the added advantage that you can balance based on capabilities of the factory floors as well

vast jungle
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each output belt can block on its own... you just get a "priority filling"

calm flax
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yeah and the other train station problem. Like when you underflow if you previous had overflow for some reason you can recycle 🙂

weak plinth
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@vast jungle Your solution is basically the brute-force solution. It's good, but a bit bulky.

vast jungle
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yes, its just a "divide and conquer" solution ^^

weak plinth
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The setup I was describing before has the issue that it would need something like a priority merger in order to not block any inputs. Here I am splitting each output first into 2, then merging each of those with a line from a smart splitter. Since mergers take an input alternating from each one, overall it should never block an input.

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Dont really have a good way to test it with items right now.

vast jungle
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Like I said, I like puzzles like this

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Just re-did my whole belt system (in and out) that went between my factory floors

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The earlier system needed components on some floors even if the floor did not needed thecorresponfung belt... And if it needed a belt, you had to set up two splitters... The new one keeps the whole vertical transfer and the splitters/mergers inside am external tower

weak plinth
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Well me too, I guess you have to if you're working on such large projects as I am right now.

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I'm currently working on a Smeltery that smelts ALL the ores on the map.

calm flax
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@weak plinth Well thats what i wanted it for

weak plinth
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I just dont bother with load balancing for that.

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IT's enough work as is

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My load balancing is whether I send in one Train route or multiple ones.

vast jungle
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I think I will work on supercomputers next to get programmable splitters

weak plinth
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I've just got a couple manufacturers for that on a simple item bus. You dont need many of those anyway.

calm flax
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You can see why i wanted it though. Its just a case of processing raw inputs which are collected as quickly as possible eg install miner -> overclock -> hookup to train station etc... At some point i need to figure out the feeds are "good"

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So the other part of the process I have looks like ore -> train -> station -> convert to ingots -> train station

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So the reason for that means when you get the power and means to run the pure or mixed recipes..... you can inflate the output massively with very little work

vast jungle
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A special refinery/smelter station?

weak plinth
calm flax
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you just merge and pile all the ore mixed onto trains?

weak plinth
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Each car has one type of resource, but they are in different order in each station

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And I want universal stations where any train can stop at each one.

vast jungle
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Yeah, just unload, sort, process and distribute again... Interesting idea

weak plinth
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I decided on which recipe I will use for each raw resource already and am building assuming MK6 Belts become a thing, so even more resources can be extracted.

vast jungle
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No "pure xyz" recipes?

calm flax
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I really wish we had multiplayer and a dedicated server 😉

weak plinth
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Nah. My game is already dying just because of my Oil Refinery.

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It will never handle all of this anyway.

sinful vale
weak plinth
vast jungle
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I think I have enough ram and CPU, but I might need to buy a graphics card later 😉

weak plinth
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A graphics card probably wont help you at all in large factories.

shrewd yacht
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I think not even the fastest CPU can deal with the massive factories

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you can't just throw more cores at this game unfortunately

weak plinth
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Yeah, exactly. Only uses about 6 threads max.

fierce ruin
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walling in the naughty bits of factories should help with fps

shrewd yacht
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when main thread saturates the CPU you're basically SoL

cursive garnet
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Faster cores help tho

shrewd yacht
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would be interesting to compare some of the megafactories across several CPUs at same view spot

peak basalt
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I have a good size factory and my bottleneck is the graphics card.

shrewd yacht
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what card?

peak basalt
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1060

shrewd yacht
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ahh, that might be

vast jungle
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I already turned down the graphics settings

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AMD r5 4650 (integrated graphics)

shrewd yacht
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will be interesting to see my 2060 on a new AMD 5xxx CPU vs this old i5 3570k

weak plinth
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lol another 3570k user^^

cursive garnet
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Also, I got a really old fx-6200 I could test a mega factory on lmao

weak plinth
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Nope, those take 45sec for me as opposed to 1m15s with the old cpu^^

gray flower
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the math after u have too balance everything makes me head hurt

shrewd yacht
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hehe, I ordered a 5900X before xmas, but it never came so I removed it from my order to get the rest of the part (tax ting end or year)

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so now I am missing a CPU and a PSU to build 🙂

peak basalt
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Most of the spikes are caused by moving from 1 grid zone to another. Which i belive i heard they are making them smaller which will help load them faster. Can't remember where I heard that tho.

shrewd yacht
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might drop to a 5600X and spend the money on a 3080 or something

cursive garnet
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@weak plinth Then those lag spikes are either coming from 1% lows (frame time) or something else

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Shouldn't be getting lag from performance with 3900x unless you're gpu bottlenecked

weak plinth
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I suspect the lag spikes are primarily due to bad programming and might depend a bit on RAM speed and latency.

shrewd yacht
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monitor with MSI Afterburner 😉

weak plinth
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The cause is really just having a certain amount of stuff in a save. It used to run perfectly even on the old CPU.

calm flax
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you talking about the lag spike when saving?

weak plinth
shrewd yacht
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the game stuters moving between biomes

weak plinth
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Yes, that's another issue. But not my primary one.

shrewd yacht
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in parts of the northern forest I get more stutters in general moving around

calm flax
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there is other problems with moving quickly between bio... Like umm with the telporter mod. If you telelport somewhere and step off the ground hasn't loaded yet so you fall though

shrewd yacht
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but thats probably my old i5 being overloaded as I get spikes at over 80% quite a lot

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I use some long tubes to move from one area to the other and I see the sutters moving around

weak plinth
shrewd yacht
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what GPU?

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or did you upgrade that as well?

weak plinth
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5700 XT. Had it all along.

shrewd yacht
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heh, thats even more overkill than me on the i5 😄

weak plinth
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A little I guess.

shrewd yacht
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only time I capped the 2060 was in ARK

weak plinth
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When I still had my i5, I also upgraded from 16GB to 32GB RAM which already helped a lot in this game.

shrewd yacht
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really?

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havent checked RAM usage

weak plinth
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It was kinda OK if I had literally nothing else open.

shrewd yacht
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been on 32 for years anyway

weak plinth
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Yeah 32 is definitely enough.

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Currently my game has allocated 21GB

shrewd yacht
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looks like I got the these sticks in june 2015

weak plinth
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I got the 16GB in 2013. My system was ancient^^

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Also still had a 280x gpu until july or something

shrewd yacht
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last year?

weak plinth
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2020

median sorrel
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Okay, okay sooo... the Christmas lights use power, right?

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But they look the same powered as unpowered... so why power them?

weak plinth
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Pretty sure they dont use power

median sorrel
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I was sure they did but I guess not

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Weird

shrewd yacht
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what kind of massive factory do you have @weak plinth ?

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loaded in and the game exe peaked at 5GB RAM

calm flax
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Well mines at like 14GB currently :S

weak plinth
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Taskmanager can tell you a few types of memory usage for each program. I meant 21 GB "Allocated Size". The standard memory usage says 14.6 GB at the moment.

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And yes my save is pretty massive already.

calm flax
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allocated size typically means address space allocated. Its like what the program could use but typically isn't using anything like it

shrewd yacht
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win10 columns I guess

calm flax
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Its like is you map a file like a dll into memory. Its "allocated" but not loaded until you touch it in memory then it gets read of the disk. Make sense?

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and its not like it loads the whole thing in one go either. More like paged in chunk of 4-8kb or read ahead size

weak plinth
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I know, but if that is near your installed RAM amount, things start to become laggy anyway because windows is dumb.

shrewd yacht
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win7 got "working set", Peak ws, private ws and commit

calm flax
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yeah it can do. Depend on how efficient the allocation process is. I have seen processes mapped at 128GB on a 16GB machine and silly things like that

weak plinth
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In the performance tab task manager also calculates based on allocated size.

calm flax
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the figures normally don't mean very much in modern os's 😉

weak plinth
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True.

calm flax
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I am a Linux kernel guy btw....

median sorrel
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I prefer Kettle Corn

weak plinth
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Do you play using wine?

shrewd yacht
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Resource monitor says 12GB in use, 19GB standby and 1.4GB free 🙂

calm flax
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nope windows gave up on wine

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though this system is a dual boot. But i play other games that definatly don't work in wine

weak plinth
calm flax
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missing comma 🙂 Nope Windows, I gave up on wine

weak plinth
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Ah I see.

shrewd yacht
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nice thing with more RAM is that things stay in memory until that memory is needed for other things

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so it reloads faster

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noticed it when moving from 16 to 32

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main reason for my 32GB was to do some map dataset conversions and needed more RAM

weak plinth
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Windows is absolutely useless at freeing up RAM and using it again for the programs you have open. It always gets ultra laggy if it ran out of memory for just a second.

shrewd yacht
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the VM needed over 12GB alone to complete the larger sets

weak plinth
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So you basically need enough ram that you never get to the limit. Only a reboot fully fixes this issue.

shrewd yacht
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never had that issue unless there was a leak

weak plinth
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idk, windows has been pretty weird with memory for a long time.

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used to work well in the windows 7 days

opaque gate
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everyone talking about like 16 GB and 32GB and im sitting here with 8 gb

torpid robin
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if you dont roll a min of 16 gb nowadays you are doing it wrong lol

opaque gate
torpid robin
#

well with how alot of games run nowadays. you can max 8gb of ram out very easily lol

opaque gate
torpid robin
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noramlly you can

dusky dust
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You're not "doing it wrong" if you've got 8GB RAM. There's lots of reasons why you might not be able to have more RAM, including financial reasons

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Don't dunk on people for their hardware

opaque gate
torpid robin
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it wasnt an attack as such. the point was as i then said. alot of games nowadays will use that 8gb very fast

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obviously with a laptop you are more restricted lol

dusky dust
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"you are doing it wrong lol" sounds a lot like an attack

sinful vale
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well, if you are desperate enough there is always the option of going to one of those websites to download free ram

opaque gate
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isnt tht a scam?

sinful vale
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mayhaps

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again, if you are desperate enough you are free to try

torpid robin
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yea how does that even work, ram is a hardware not a software lol

sinful vale
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shh

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don't apply logic

torpid robin
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🤯

calm flax
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Well yes thats a scam. However there are some things like compressing memory in order to get more. They typically don't work well its trading cpu time for memory speed

sinful vale
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logic is bad, we all know that if you find something written in the internet it's absolute truth

torpid robin
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thing is dam internet browsers use up so much ram nowadays lol. i use 5gb on just chrome 😂

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i havtn even loaded up a game

sinful vale
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isn't there a browser that has a setting to limit the ram usage?

bleak coral
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yeah opera has a "gamer" browser that does that, chrome and firefox probably also have add-ons that can do it too

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I know the tab manager I got recently for firefox can put tabs in other groups to sleep so they take up less RAM, so that'd be something

sinful vale
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what would be the difference in that?

torpid robin
#

hmmm interesting. i may go check it out

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i always have so many tabs open. and 5gb for a browser is stupid lol

opaque gate
#

would a 4 gb ddr5 graphics card run this game well?

#

with 16 gb ram?

bleak coral
#

when you first open up a browser that has tabs saved the browser only completely loads the pages when you actually open them right? well the tab manager can just put them back into that state when you switch groups

#

it makes you load the page again, but if you want to save memory it's there

torpid robin
opaque gate
#

i have a 2gb card but i can barely run the game on low settings someone should rly update tht

torpid robin
#

thast min though

#

so it runs right ?, they dont have a recommended

sinful vale
#

well, they are the minimum settings, so i would assume that they are meant to have the game run with the lowest settings

opaque gate
#

its so laggy though i can maybe get 30 fps at a push

bleak coral
#

the minimum specs aren't final anyway, they're probably not gonna update them until release

#

but 8GB memory does seem conservative as well

torpid robin
#

yea i was surprised at that

#

but hawk has the min that it states and it runs

#

so they are right. it doesnt run well. but it does lol

opaque gate
#

should i get better ram i only have 8gb

torpid robin
#

IMO youd want 16gb ram and maybe like a 6gb card

opaque gate
torpid robin
#

but it also comes down to cpu as well

#

but you are saying the frames arent great is what im getting at

opaque gate
torpid robin
#

thats exactly right. you get pretty restricted with laptops

#

ram is normally the only thing you can do easily. and then it depends on how old it is.

opaque gate
#

just asking i know this may be the wrong discord but does this look like a scam

weak plinth
#

Scam or not, that thing is absolute ancient garbage.

#

What hardware does your laptop have?

opaque gate
#

prolly better thn the 2gb card i have now

bleak coral
#

I'm like super wary of trying to replace parts in a laptop

weak plinth
#

If your laptop is that bad, it's really not worth upgrading anything in there. I wouldnt even pay 10$ for that card.

opaque gate
#

geforce mx 250

sinful vale
opaque gate
#

thanks

weak plinth
# opaque gate geforce mx 250

kinda doubt it. Even if it was, you cant just upgrade a laptop gpu to whatever. You're lucky if it is upgradeable at all. But if it's this old, I can tell you it's not worth it.

opaque gate
#

mx 250 is 2019

sinful vale
#

idk basically anything about making a pc, but i'm a bit wary about having only a single review

opaque gate
#

k so imma just get more ram and hope for the best

weak plinth
# opaque gate mx 250 is 2019

It's an ultra-low-end card. It was garbage when it was brand-new. But whatever, go ahead and waste money for no benefit in games.

opaque gate
#

dude y tf u being so toxic

weak plinth
#

Why do you ask questions if you reject every answer?

nimble ridge
#

i mean, he's right in saying its bad

#

at least from the objective standpoint that its barely enough to run the game if it does at all

#

also, good luck upgrading your laptop, lol

oblique hollow
#

you both agreed that the card is trash, why are you arguing

#

besides, as sad as it is, 1 year is enough to render most pc hardware oudated.
i have built my own pc just 2-3 years ago, yet nearly all the components can no longer be bought anywhere. thats how fast this section advances

torpid robin
#

yea i got a top of the line monitor a year ago. i cant buy it now if i wanted to. i have a 2080ti and they have already brought the 3080ti that is better than it

cursive garnet
# opaque gate

See as how it's for a quadro if I read the title right but it's got AMD on it, I'd say it's a schamaz

opaque gate
#

Ye I was wondering about tht

torpid robin
#

or 3090 or 3080 or whatever it is thats out now

fierce ruin
#

If my GPU is a GTX 1660 Super and while playing games its at 160 F, would that mean if I get an rtx 2080 I could get lower temps on that same game, maybe cause the power is better?

cursive garnet
fierce ruin
#

ah ok

vocal folio
#

Hey how do you do a 2:1 split ?

#

example: i have 15 items/ min and i want to split them into 10 and 5.

sand garnet
#

just let the splitters balance it themselves

#

machines will take whatever they need

#

once the internal buffers fill up, they'll back up eventually all the way into the splitter, causing natural overflow to happen to any available machines

vocal folio
#

gotcha

sinful vale
#

i think that if you are deadset into making it balanced rather than manifolded it would be splitting into 3, adding a merger right after it and merging back 2 of the 3 lines

vocal folio
#

was thinking of doing that

#

but its alright

#

buffer fill idea is easier

bleak coral
vocal folio
#

Due to the the mechanisms of Splitters, the machines closer to the source will fill up faster and start running <- this line is not how they are working in my case

#

or do mergers count as machine too ?

#

that would explain things if thats the case

sinful vale
sinful vale
vocal folio
sinful vale
#

in practice it means that the machines closer to the input of the line will fill up faster

vocal folio
#

the 2 smelters are outputting 15 /min. i was thinking of doing that splitter merger thing and make it go 10 in each

#

but from the looks of it, i made it go 20 in the middle and 5 on the edges

#

i measured the distance and think if i move the merger a bit down, it should fix itself

sinful vale
#

you are sending 15 to the middle and 7.5 to the angles

#

but the middle will fill up, and once it fills, it will only be able to take 10 a min, making the other 5 back up into the 2 lines and make the 2 in the edge end up in 10 too

#

assuming that the 3 machines you are outputting to take 10 each

vocal folio
#

it works in decimals. ;-; rip my imaginations

#

they do take 10 each

sinful vale
#

then don't worry, the system works

#

it will just take a bit for the machine in the middle to fill up, once it does, it will work like a charm

vocal folio
#

thanks

hasty basin
#

is there any way of hosting a server 24/7 without a user being online ?

torpid robin
#

not yet

hasty basin
#

any dates yet ?

nimble ridge
#

no, not at all

#

we just know that dedicated servers is on their clipboard

quasi widget
#

i wish there was

nimble ridge
#

multiplayer itself was already kinda shoehorned in by popular request

#

they're just doing alot of work on other parts of the game rn

hasty basin
#

mp seems fine haven't found any bugs so far

#

cant wait for dedicated servers

quasi widget
#

yeah i watched some of the recent dev vids seems like they are doing alot right now with teir 8

worthy copper
#

Lotta issues with vehicles as a multiplayer client atm I believe

#

Unless they’ve been fixed in the time I wasn’t looking

quasi widget
#

havent played multiplayer

#

sucks to be one of the few people in my grade with a pc

hasty basin
#

in my school nearly none had a pc to play games

#

but soon found some people online to play with

#

few of them live near me too

quasi widget
#

thats what i want to do

hasty basin
#

this community is very friendly, I think you can find great people here

sinful vale
#

tho keep in mind it's way faster to find a world to join in than finding someone to join your world

hasty basin
#

I found someone to play with there too

fierce ruin
#

If you are using 1 pure iron node for just rods is it 21 constructors at the end?

sinful vale
quasi widget
fierce ruin
#

base Bp

exotic ledge
sinful vale
#

on the mk of the miner, the mk of the belt, what recipe you are using and if there is overclocking involved involved in the miner and or the contructors

fierce ruin
#

i have 780 ore and ingots per min

#

i can overclock the constructors but id like to not

exotic ledge
#

lol not really needed for rods

#

Uh, 780 Ore just divide it by 15 for the default Iron Rods recipie

#

so my math says 52 constructors

fierce ruin
#

Thanks

exotic ledge
#

though btw

#

This assumes your Iron Ore:Iron Ingots ratio is 1:1 (default recipe)

fierce ruin
#

it is on this one.

hasty basin
#

If I put 3 pumps at the bottom, does the water pump to 30m or just 10m above the highest pump ?

torpid robin
#

10m above the highest pump

#

need to have a gap between them

hasty basin
#

Ok so one pump every 10m in height

oblique hollow
#

No, do 20

#

Pumps can go 20 m

hasty basin
#

Oh because I remember reading they do 10

#

Aight thanks man

oblique hollow
#

Normal machines do 10

#

Pump mk 1 does 20, Pump mk 2 does 50

hasty basin
#

Pumps only go mk2 i suppise then ?

sinful vale
torpid robin
#

oh dam 50 m for the mk 2 i havnt played with them yet

sinful vale
hasty basin
#

and how far does it transport water ?

sinful vale
#

horizontal distance is irrelevant

#

pipes don't lose flow rate regardless of how much horizontal distance they cover

hasty basin
#

Oh well kinda unrealistic but usefull

#

thanks a lot :)

worthy copper
#

Satisfactory is a...
Very idealized environment.

sinful vale
oblique hollow
#

Pipes have no friction because FICSIT Tech ™️

#

@worthy copper ive actually just remembered, that "Viscosity" thing i tested was actually so little like viscosity, ive given it its own name

#

I just called it the Dylan Number

worthy copper
#

The description you gave me at first sounded a lot like just mass or density lol

oblique hollow
#

Since its unknown what it is, its better to just give it its own dimensionless thing

#

All i know is i somehow got a number from 0 to 1 out of my tests

#

HOR had like 0.83

#

Whatever that means lol

frosty owl
# oblique hollow HOR had like 0.83

How much does oil have?
If oil is lower, it could explain how I got get the "junctions leak" with HOR but NOT with oil, despite both having the same number of junctions

wind spade
#

there are a few numbers in game data for liquids, one of them is indeed viscosity. Those numbers differ between liquids, so they should behave differently in pipes

median sorrel
#

Peeps, I did it 😄

#

very compact and it can take any variety of items from any direction and send it any other direction

#

A network of these should be super useful... probably :3

#

mergers and programmable splitters btw

topaz hedge
#

what?! I need 20 mfg's to make acu's.. man I thought it was gonna be like 10..

median sorrel
#

what's to what what?

wind spade
vast jungle
# wind spade or just... connect everything directly? 😄

it could be useful in a (vertically) tight space where your don't have the luxury to go over/under other belts without producing a lot of mess... on the other side, configuring such a "ring" when you cannot look onto the whole situation from the top sounds challenging.

median sorrel
#

I mean... when I'm connecting lots of different things across the map it's useful, plus when stuff in the game changes, easy to change where stuff goes

vast jungle
#

now that I think about it its the "roundabout" of belt streets... now we need a highway intersection 😉

median sorrel
#

Ummm I mean... kinda like what I did earlier

#

Was much bigger though

wind spade
median sorrel
#

I used mixed belts for everything and everything travels to where it needs to go

#

Well... Some specialized large factories I don't but

#

Between factories I do

wind spade
#

sooner or later you're gonna run into issues with some resources having more than other resources and it will deadlock

#

and later you're gonna use trains anyway, so I'd just build more belts instead and call it a day

median sorrel
#

You'd think but actually if I build up my grid it shouldn't matter

#

Because it can overflow in another direction and still find it's way to the right spot

#

=D

vast jungle
wind spade
#

yeah, it will just overflow that one belt

vast jungle
#

or it might go around in a circle for some time

median sorrel
#

It will just split up and recombine later on if I do it right.

#

Plus I can always overflow or have buffers

#

I just have the belts stacked too so it should never be an issue

#

Although I might not use that more compact version for my more busy middle hubs

wind spade
#

all of this seems like waste of time for a system that may work 100%, but will probably break sooner or later because of some weird race condition or something

vast jungle
#

not necessarily...

imagine doing this in a larger grid... you items want to move from "left" to "right" on a certain line...
lets say you configured the overflow of the line to go "up".
Now is the question, how do the items get "down" again? At least one of the "roundabouts" above your line must send the items down, most likely a lot or all of them.

This could lead to the situation where your line is sending some items "up", only to be sent directly "down" again by the roundabout they hit.

median sorrel
#

It would got up then right at the nect hub then down

#

*next

wind spade
#

yeah, lowering items/min input for a while, which may cause factories to slow down or shut down because of lack of resources

median sorrel
#

Like.. think of it as a gradient of direction to travel

#

Also, I wouldn't be using it for like... ores obviously ^^

wind spade
#

no matter how good the system are, you can't guarantee 100% reliability because of the "randomness" included

#

which is good enough argument for me to not use it

median sorrel
#

It's not exactly randomness, ut should always make positive progress in some way. And if it's ever overwhelmed I just add more belts and I never have to think about what for.

wind spade
#

imagine one of your factories connected to this thing shutting down for whatever reason. The items going into this factory will overflow to the belts connecting factories and eventually fill them up and shut the whole system down

median sorrel
#

My factories have overflows

wind spade
#

factories can shut down for multiple reasons, not just because of overproduction

median sorrel
#

Into sinks

#

I know, I've already set up every factory with that in mind

#

Actually though, I will probably stop sinking said resources eventually and run all my leftovers through an "everything factory " that will use up the resources as efficiently as possible stsrting with the highest sink value item going down

#

I already have 2 everything factories but I want to redo them. To use 4 belts stacked per level to split up types of items as well.

#

Actually... maybe just 3

torpid robin
#

so we have pipe guru's do we have train guru's that can discuss some stuff?

median sorrel
#

Trains are cool

wind spade
#

so let me sum it up:

  • you make a complicated belt setup that saves you from building multiple belts between factories
  • the setup is not 100% reliable and limited in throughput
  • the setup needs a lot of correctly configured splitters, where one misconfiguration can lead to system failure
  • your factories also need extra protection because of that system (overflow, buffers)
  • you need to monitor the system all the time if it's overflowing to add more belts
  • the whole thing would be outdated by the time you start building trains

idk man, seems like a lot of work for no real gain

vast jungle
#

Trains are cool as soon as you have enough distance between bases... 😦

median sorrel
#

Complicated is relative. Certainly I'll make tired mistakes but I also put boxes to sample what I'm overflowing into sinks where not expected so I can easily find my mistake. It's pretty reliable. I have seen an off bug or two though where even a smart splitter lets through the wrong item, but that's the game not the system and it can handle the rare bug. It wouldn't have a system failure. It could overflow or worst case dump items into a sink

#

Enough distance? I have a train that delivers a bunch of stuff but... ehh

#

Like... I like the trains themselves but not the loading and unloading so much

#

Because it's limited to 2 belts max speed

wind spade
#

it's limited by 2 belts per car

median sorrel
#

Yes, I'd rather have more

wind spade
#

it's still one train track with virtually unlimited throughput

median sorrel
#

If you have multple stops though I don't feel like dealing with that yet

#

I plan on it but...

bleak coral
#

uh what? just add more cars and freight stations

wind spade
#

^

bleak coral
#

you can have as many freight stations per stop as you can fit

median sorrel
#

I gotta make massive stations then at every stop

bleak coral
#

or massive piles of belts the whole way

wind spade
#

how many resources do you plan to transport with one train?

median sorrel
#

Even just to grab a few items

wind spade
#

your complicated belt setup is limited by how many belts you can fit between factories...

median sorrel
#

Belts take up like no space and overlap...

bleak coral
#

and if it's not automated you don't even need a stop, I've got a train with twelve cars I use to move boatloads of crap between a new base and a warehouse

#

well trainloads I guess

vast jungle
#

Trains have good throughput, but their latency sucks

Similar to internet DSL lines and shipping a large SSD... shipping large SSD is faster in terms of throughput, but I would not want to have a voice call over this method 😉

wind spade
#

one train track takes space of like 2 belts and can fit resources from 100s of belts

torpid robin
#

im doing some tests now to make sure i have enough through put. i have some ore on the other side of the map. its a full 780 line. it is split between 3 freight cars.as thast what it needed to allow the miner to keep mining without stopping. they are going into ISC with 2 belts going into the platform to allow the resources to go in after the 25 sec pause. its replicated at the otehr end where it unloads.its then going into a 780 line into a sink. trying to replicate it either end pretty much. but what im finding is that each time it comes back there is still about 40-60 left from the last load . and that just compounds and gets more and more each time.

median sorrel
#

The train has to travel back to get the next load and essentially can only be emptied and loaded at 2 belts speed

torpid robin
#

why is this? should it run out about the time a new train turns up

median sorrel
#

Per car

torpid robin
#

or is everything suppose to eventually become saturated like a manifold would?

#

i hope that makes sense

wind spade
wind spade
#

try splitting it into two sinks

torpid robin
#

yea and thats what i thought to. but then i split the line and went into 2 sinks instead. same thing

wind spade
#

if not, it's also the possibility of merger not being able to merge to full belt (which is also a thing in some cases)

#

what if you don't merge the three belts and instead sink each of them separately?

torpid robin
#

i thought ok maybe its the merges. so i plugged them into ISC and did a bit of an over flow thing i have seen dan p and kibits use. same result a 780 line out. and same result

#

i will try sink each line seperatly and see what happens

median sorrel
#

I mean, you still have to sort out all those resources either onto the train or off. Plus multiple stops can mean lots of buildup at the stations and overflow.

wind spade
#

you don't sort, because you don't use mixed belts

torpid robin
#

but ease my mind. im not going crazy right? i shouldnt have 40 odd left over. i could maybe udnerstand maybe 5?. say if i have it coming from an ingot factory and iots doign that. then all, of that would stop too

wind spade
#

@torpid robin I'd accept even a 100. The game isn't really precise in some cases and even though I don't like it, I just accepted it and moved on

median sorrel
#

One train car per item? O.o

wind spade
torpid robin
#

ye right ok. maybe im looking into it to much

wind spade
#

no sorting needed, throughput guaranteed, no need to overflow anything

torpid robin
#

so what. maybe the way to go. say if i have a heap of stuff coming from an ingot factory. i maybe just have a sink to sink some of excess so it keeps running./ but wouldnt it mean the factory its supplying would be running out?

#

maybe i just set up 780 worth of smelters up and see what happens lol

median sorrel
#

Idk man... I will probably just use trains for moving large quantities of the same stuff

wind spade
torpid robin
#

ye ye. gettting ahead of myself. il do that now 😂

median sorrel
#

But mixed belts are still where it's at imo x3

wind spade
median sorrel
#

I heard they were planning on adding train collusion I thought

wind spade
wind spade
median sorrel
#

That sounds interesting

#

And then item teleportation is added and everything we both like becomes irrelevant.

#

Lmao

torpid robin
#

thing is. it gonna sink it fine. cause in each cart there is actually only 260pm

vast jungle
#

I use mixed belts for getting products out of my factory floors... but separated belts for raw resources to get into.

median sorrel
#

That

torpid robin
#

and no. mixed belts=bad

wind spade
#

don't think teleportation will be a thing, if it will, it would be player teleportation. Item teleportation seems too OP

torpid robin
#

i agree. will take too much away from the gam,e

#

like you know. me trying to figure this dam train out

#

or trying to belt up hubs and auto storters

median sorrel
#

Even if it's only automated into storage?

vast jungle
#

at the moment I have three mixed belts that go first up the factory (with mergers on each floor) and then down the factory (with smart splitters on each floor) until they hit my smart-sorting warehouse.

dusky quail
#

wasn't player storage teleportation talked about or something

median sorrel
#

I think so?

#

I forget exactly what they said

dusky quail
#

pretty sure they showed it some time back, but it was just for player storage, no inputs or outputs

median sorrel
#

I'd like to see it but if it's an old feature it was prolly scrapped. Maybe...

vast jungle
#

just an idea about teleportation and player storage... it would be interesting if you could build a machine that is linked to a limited number of inventory slots so you can fill them up remotely... which also would lead to large scale warehouses trying to fill up different slots with different stuff. And much more useful than having a belt that goes into player inventory. One problem with production order and you suddenly have your whole inventory filled with wire or screws 😉

median sorrel
#

That's... "screwed up".

topaz hedge
#

I think teleportation is pointless for a line because of trains. But if you could remotely access your storage containers and move to player inventory, that would be cool. you never have enough concrete or iron plates lol

vast jungle
jade minnow
#

I have a huge storage for concrete, iron plates, iron rods for ladders (I like to climb when exploring lol), steel beams and pipes and also going for a good alclad sheet production next so I can belt the whole map with mk5 belts 🤓

vast jungle
#

I don't know how long I experimented to have a reasonable ladder inside my resource-delivery towers...

jade minnow
#

What do you mean? Death traps? It's also the easiest way to get down again, you just fly and hold on to the ladder before you hit the ground. No damage from grabbing it mid-air with huge speed lol

jade minnow
vast jungle
# jade minnow What ladder?

I think ladders on the outside of structures are already strange... you have to approach them backward to go down.
Just jumping and then try to catch the ladder is often not an option, depending on the height... you might hit the ground before catching the ladder.

But long ladders on the inside wall of a building are more of a problem... because you need a hole between your floor and the ladder, large enough to get through. But you don't accidentally want to miss the hole and take damage by falling, especially multiple floors.

so in the tower I mentioned I used walkways to make the hole as tiny as possible (1/4 foundation distance to the wall, 1/2 foundation wide) and broke the long ladder apart into multiple ones, one for each two floors... this way when you are not careful and miss a ladder, you only fall down one floor (which is 7-8 foundations high in my factory)

jade minnow
#

No I don't mean in my factory. Inside a building I only use stairs or the walkway ramps. I mean outside if you see e.g. A power slug on top of a steep hill, I use a ladder to climb up and put a few foundations at the top so I can jump down to walk safely to reach it

vast jungle
jade minnow
#

On the ground I travel by foot like a real explorer. I like the feeling when you are in the middle of a bush and suddenly hear hissing or whatever 👻

opaque gate
#

should i build a sink next to my coke so i dont have to transport it

vast jungle
opaque gate
#

havent got fuel yet just using it for plastic and rubber

vast jungle
#

or use a smart-splitter to make sure it sinks when you don't use it

opaque gate
#

so set a smart splitter to overflow

vast jungle
#

yes... make sure they are always consumed... just to be sure and prevent a lot of headache

calm iron
vast jungle
#

@calm iron no useful Caterium-Node nearby?

calm iron
# vast jungle <@!134351207362723840> no useful Caterium-Node nearby?

I havent done much research into Caterium yet. I'm new to the game but I feel like I bumrushed to oil by accident ahahah.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/175981591028301824/795382108918120528/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/175981591028301824/795382214413385808/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/175981591028301824/795383226822164550/unknown.png
Currently moving base right now to re-do steel production. in hindsight i should have made more belts haha. This be about 45h in.

opaque gate
#

wait u can use coke to power coal?

vast jungle
#

I would suggest getting at least the Smart-Splitter...

#

@opaque gate yes, you can generate Petrolium Coke from Heavy Oil Residue and then burn it in a Coal Power Plant

opaque gate
#

oh how much does 1 need

calm iron
#

25/min

opaque gate
#

ok so 10 more then coal

vast jungle
#

Just don't forget that Coal Powerplants only consume input proportional to the current demand of electricity drawn from the powerplant

calm iron
opaque gate
#

is the blue crater deep enough for extractors?

vast jungle
#

thats why Smart-Splitters are so useful... you can use them in "Overflow" Mode to make sure that any additional Coke is just channeled into an Awesome Sink

calm iron
#

Right now, each coke line is tri-splitted at the start. 2 lines go to 2 gens each. it is my current less-than-stellar solution. The abundance line is merged with each other though.
Since I did not delve deeper into the machines/research i was not really aware when and where you'd get them.

opaque gate
#

what is coke used for apart from sink and coal gens

oblique hollow
deft pike
opaque gate
#

and what teir is that?

vast jungle
#

7

opaque gate
#

ok thanks

wind spade
oblique hollow
#

thank you very much i will steal that straight away and use it somehow

wind spade
#

don't think it'll give you anything though. I've already asked for the formula and they just said "it's super complicated"

#

also they may have changed it since last time I've got these values

oblique hollow
#

doesnt matter, i will somehow find a way to use this

#

even if this is outdated. the fact that there are 3 values for liquids is very important

opaque gate
#

should i run plastic and rubber on the same conveyer then smart splitter them or are they not needed together

wind spade
#

there are three known values for liquids

oblique hollow
#

usually you wont mix them anywhere

#

cause i dont know of any recipes that use both plastic and rubber

opaque gate
#

ok so 2 seperate belts cus im making a factory just for computers

#

and i need the plastic going there

wind spade
#

@oblique hollow
Water: 1/1/0.1
HOR: 1/6/0.1
Fuel: 1/2/0.1
Sulfuric Acid: 1/5/0.1
Turbofuel: 1/1/0.1
Liquid Biofuel: 1/2/0.1
Alumina Solution: 1/4/0.1

These are from U3 release, they have been since removed from the Docs.json file

#

seems only the viscosity changes

oblique hollow
#

very interesting

#

thank you a lot. ill see if i can find out what they affect

vast jungle
calm iron
#

Will do once my steel production is up and running. 10 years later

opaque gate
vast jungle
#

Programmable Splitter can have multiple entries for each

#

but the "Overflow" Setting is already present in the Smart Splitter and its the most used and most useful I think

opaque gate
#

when do u unlock the programable splitter

sand garnet
#

Caterium research in the MAM

opaque gate
#

i have that is it further than the smart splitter

magic shadow
#

yes

median sorrel
#

You can use the smart splitter for everything you can use the programmable splitter for, just with multiples of them.

vast jungle
#

new base for hightech stuff... foundation? Check... Power? Check... Caterium? Check... Copper? Check... Water? WATER? DAMNED WATER...

vast jungle
#

question for our fluid experts... I have 3 groups of 4 water extractors... can I just hook them up to a single line and attach a long pipe on each end to get 2*600 water?

dull sable
#

you mean feed water from both ends and pull from the mid? it would work but youd only get 600 out, if you mean piping all the extractors together and pulling approx 300 from the ends of a 600 pipe then it should work. except apparently mk2 pipes dont transport 600 exactly, its like 580 or something

vast jungle
#

no, the other way around...

#

single line with three attachments, each leading to 4 water extractors... and use pumps to gather the water at both sides of the line

bleak coral
#

insertion method works perfectly fine with liquids, you just have to make sure no single section of pipe needs more than the max flowrate of that pipe

#

usually by putting machines between the insertions to use up liquids

vast jungle
#

its more about delivering water to a new factory... and of course the water is 100m below the factory

quasi widget
#

man water always sucks

#

on my first save with over 140 hours i had to completely overhaul my water and i still sucked

topaz hedge
vast jungle
#

Water? Check... Iron? Check... Copper? Check... Rubber/Plastic? Check...

#

finally everything the new base needs has "arrived"

#

okay, I forgot that I have yet to build a hypertube to the new factory

quasi widget
#

ha

vast jungle
#

hypertube done... finally the minimal infrastructure is in place

median sorrel
vast jungle
median sorrel
#

Hmmm okay, that's really useful to know. ty

vast jungle
#

not always but "sometimes"

dusky dust
#

(and that "sometimes" might relate somehow to the number of junctions you use. I have seen identical problems on mk1 pipes using the full 300 (though, again, not always))

indigo mason
#

Mk2 😎

frail finch
#

mk 2 pipes are funny, no need for lift pumps

bleak coral
#

and it may or may not have something to do with those mysterious viscosity numbers

#

thought it would be weird if the fluids behaved differently from each other

#

cause we have no way of knowing that information in game or what it means or how to plan around it

#

if that's the case

wet yacht
#

I'm new to the game and just starting out. It seems like you can have 2 smelters per miner for max efficiency, is that right?

#

For Miner Mk1

oblique isle
#

Depends on the node

dusky dust
#

You may very well have a miner whose output can support more than one smelter - if so, definitely feel free to split the ore between 'em

#

As Zothuro mentioned, the actual extraction rate from miners can depend on the node - in that image it's only getting 30, but yours could be getting 60

#

(Or even 120)

wet yacht
#

Gotcha. Is there an ideal length of conveyer belt or can I have these machines super stacked together and it won't make much of a difference?

#

Seems it doesnt matter much since they're at a fixed speed?

jade jasper
#

m a t h.

oblique isle
#

@wet yacht However you balance your machines or whatever, for perfect effecientcy, follow these words
Load Balancing: The output of the previous machine must match the input of the next machine
Manifolds: The output of the previous set of machines should match the input of follow set of machines.

bleak coral
topaz hedge
#

I sure hope after fismas they make all the stuff sinkable.

#

I think it should be sinkable already but.. some people think that would be free points.. well if gifts were worth 1 point each, it would take 5,000 sinks and 150,000MW, and one very broken uobject limit to equal what my factory produces in points/min

minor cipher
#

What is the equation for getting the amount of produced power for getting the amount of power you get from overclocking a generator, and for the power usage by a building thats getting overclocked, so like is there an equation to get how much power i'd generate if I overclocked a coal generator to 250% and a equation to see how much power a constructor would use if overclocked to 250%, and if possible for the generators to see how much of the resource it will use when overclocked or underclocked.

Simpler Terms:
Is there an equation to see the usage or production of a power consuming source or generator when overclocked/underclocked, and how much fuel the generator would consume at the specified clock

topaz hedge
minor cipher
#

alright thanks, and is there a way to see the math behind this calculator

topaz hedge
#

Dunno. ask greenie when you see him.

#

I don't bother with OC'ing generators, and when OC'ing factory machines, I don't even look at the power usage lol

minor cipher
topaz hedge
#

I don't like decimals on my powergrid. lol

minor cipher
#

(ignore this) so currently, if my generators are at 100% usage they will use 202 coal a minute and 600 m3 of water a minute, 6 generators are at 250% clock and 2 are at 52% clocks. Capacity of 1001.3 MW

#

If I have them at default clocks then I could have 12 at 100% clocks and 2 at 60% clocks, they would use 202 coal a minute and 600 m3 of water a minute. Capacity of 1001.2 MW

#

hmm, they seem to be the same result no matter what clocks I use as long as they use the same amount of water a min

#

I have 2 mk1 water pipes that have the water pumps set to make sure they dont produce more than 300 m³ of water a minute per pipe, and then at the coal plants I make sure not to exceed 300 m³ a minute per pipe so there are no bottle necks in case of high power usage without my knowledge

topaz hedge
#

fuel sources have a fixed amount of energy. so OC'ing them just increases their usage proportionally. ex I think 1 m^3 of turbofuel has 2000MJ OCing a fuel gen will produce more power and burn an equal amount of turbofuel for the power it puts out

#

power generation on this game is 100% efficient.

minor cipher
#

ah

#

and cause I have quite a few power shards i'm fine with ocing them

topaz hedge
#

that's why it's not really worth messing with the OC. they don't give you more. heck, 1 generator OC'd to 200% will produce less than just building two generators.

#

that's why it's not worth it in my opinion, just build more generators. it's not like OC'ing a miner or a factory building where it gives you more product.

minor cipher
topaz hedge
#

Yes, but it produces less.

minor cipher
#

wait it does

topaz hedge
#

a coal gen OC'd to 200% will produce 127MW

minor cipher
#

oh i get it

topaz hedge
#

two coal generators produce 140MW

minor cipher
#

the overclocks % dont increase the output via multiplives

#

its by the consumption of the resources

topaz hedge
#

and it introduces all these nasty decimals and you're just asking for rounding errors.

#

like, I guess you could say it's good in a pinch, but don't build a powerstation and plan to overclock the whole thing.

minor cipher
#

well this is my setup with overclocks, and cause I'd need to rebuild the pipe and conveyor line for this just for a few extra shards I've nothing else to use on im fine

📎 20210104211101_1.jpg
#

its not the clocks that change the production, its the consumption of the resources

rustic stream
#

Got kind of a basic question about pipes and such. So I hooked up a refinery and pre-loaded it with bauxite and water(while it was put on stand by), the output pipe just went to a fluid buffer. When I turned the refinery on and looked at the flow rate of the output pipe it was spiking to above 110-120 m^3/min. My question is how is that possible if the max flow rate out of it should be 80 m^3/min.

minor cipher
#

I've not unlocked refineries yet but just wondering, whats max flowrate was 80 m^3 a min

#

@rustic stream

rustic stream
#

when making alumina solution, when at 100% production at 100% clock, it makes 80 m^3/min

minor cipher
#

cause what might've been happening, is the fluid would build up in a pipe and then release in a small bunch and would look like its exceeding the max refinery output

#

which is why you have spikes in the output

#

as I dont think pipes are a constant speed like conveyors are

rustic stream
#

so the volume has to build up, then the flow rate rises up, when the volume reduces, the flow goes down following the volume reduction?

signal nimbus
#

Building up my Tier 3/4 factory, and the plates, rods, and even screws ended up looking okay. After that... well, it's getting re-done. Because I don't feel like untangling that bowl of spaghetti.

pale aurora
#

I need to deconstruct my entire current factory and rebuild it with a more efficient design
:)

nimble ridge
#

ive gotten better at making my factories future proof, thats why even though my saves are a little unorganized theyre always tidy

#

rn im at teir 7-8 and the only thing ive had to go back and improve are my starting rotor setup and also steel, cuz you gotta unlock steel before you can make a good foundry

silver valley
#

how many refineries making plastic from resin use up 5 refineries worth of resin (plus how many water extractors do i need)

wind spade
minor cipher
#

oh ty greeny

vast jungle
# silver valley how many refineries making plastic from resin use up 5 refineries worth of resin...

depends on what recipe you are using to generate the resin.
Its just basic division... you look up the production rate of the resin (https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Polymer_Resin) and then you look up the consumption rate of it in plastic(https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Plastic)... and you divide the first by the second... if you round the number up, it gives you the number of refineries you need... the fraction also gives you (if you care) the amount of under/overclocking you need to exactly reach the production rate.

topaz hedge
#

I'm starting to think that pumps don't use power if they're not pumping fluids, even though it shows they're using power on a powerpole.

jade minnow
#

If it shows, how can you know they don't? thinking_helmet

vast jungle
#

you could hook up a single Biomass Burner to test it... see if the leafs run out 😉

vast jungle
#

nice... directly behind my new factory was a green powershard (noticed it when I had to extend to allow 16 Refineries in a row)... not so nice, there were also 2 aliens

magic shadow
#

what is the maximum power production?

vast jungle
#

depends on how much leafs you want to collect 😉

bleak coral
#

More than 1.2TW, that's the max for nuclear

sinful vale
vast jungle
#

but lets face it, Nuclear is not sustainable at the moment because of the waste

sinful vale
#

space is one of the two effectively infinite resources in the game, there is no lack of space to make storages

vast jungle
#

I think I will stay on Tier 6 until Update 4

sullen cloud
#

nuclear waste is no problem because waste is produced according to power usage not production

night jay
sullen cloud
#

power draw for max 1.2kK MW nuke is only 44k MW

sinful vale
night jay
#

bruh I'm barely touching tier 6 and my pc hates me already, it wont take me too long lol

sinful vale
#

to run out of space you will have to take over NASA to use their rig and upgrade unreal engine to 20 trillion objects, gl with that

bleak coral
#

People overestimate the waste problem. Though it will probably be a real problem on dedicated servers sinve they'll be running 24/7

#

But that's a future problem, and who knows all the changes update 4 will bring

vast jungle
#

yes, they already showed us "Plutonium Waste"... so most likely you will be able to trade "more waste" into "less but more radioactive waste" 🙂

night jay
#

i'm pretty convinced U4 will bring a way to deal with waste, or at least manage it a lot better

#

like condensing it into plutonium

wind spade
#

I hope they won't make it that you can get rid of the waste

night jay
#

however I'm waiting for them to add my favorite element into the game, Americium

bleak coral
#

my current theory is plutonium will be like turbofuel, burns slower so you can run more reactors off the same ppm

night jay
bleak coral
#

in consequence it'll produce less waste compared to a similar uranium setup that produces the same amount of power

#

assuming the waste created is also scaled down for plutonium

night jay
#

but maybe plutonium doesn't stack as high, and iis more radioaactive

bleak coral
#

I would be surprised if it doesn't stack to 500 too

night jay
#

i see a lot of trade offs and new methods in the future for U4

bleak coral
#

oh the plutonium itself, not the waste

#

I don't think it matters what the fuel stacks to since it shouldn't be stored anywhere anyway

#

a smaller stack would actually be better for manifolds

night jay
#

no, the waste. I think it should stack to maybe 200, produce more radiation, but in the long run be a lot better in total numbers compared to regular waste

bleak coral
#

I guess you could do that, I don't care to guess the exact numbers, my prediction boils down to I think their storage fillrate will be slower than uranium for the same amount of power

night jay
#

same power, less waste production at higher risk of radiation.

#

also it would probably be more late game than regular nuclear energy

#

i still find it funny they prioritzied the waste over the actual ingots and energy rods for plutonium

#

at least for the single video that we got

willow pewter
#

they showed us a new building

#

they said it has to do with nuclear

#

probably a centrifuge

#

makes isotopes

#

refines uranium

#

oddly enough possibly makes batteries

nimble ridge
#

yea when i saw it i though some kind of centrifuge or like a chemical mixing vat type thing

#

the art direction for the buildings has been going in a great way since launch im sure whatever it is will be cool

#

i remember when the manufacturers were just bricks and the refineries were, well, worse.

bleak coral
#

have the refineries gone through 3 models? I didn't think the ones before the fluid update were bad, just the new ones are amazing

sinful vale
bleak coral
#

I mean if that bothers you just space them out a little more

sinful vale
vast jungle
#

enough for 3.75 supercomputers/minute

nimble ridge
#

late game is when you get belts good enough to start giving a shit about using alt recipes on ingots

vast jungle
#

keeping all Refineries of a factory in a single floor helps to make the other floors lower...

shrewd yacht
#

refineries need like 8x4m foundations to clear I think?

#

no wait, it's more than that

vast jungle
#

they need 6 foundations if you don't want to clip the upper part I think

#

no, they need 7

shrewd yacht
#

forgot now... tested it yesterday

vast jungle
#

-.-

shrewd yacht
#

thought it was 8 then a 1m foundation level with the top will clear the chimney

#

think I found that a mk2 pump would cut it close for refineries on top

nimble ridge
#

can you overclock them?

#

ive never tried but it would be cool

shrewd yacht
#

at least if you want to use 4m foundations for the floor to make it look more realistic

vast jungle
#

you are right, its 8...

#

I am so happy to have a fast Concrete and Iron Plate production...

shrewd yacht
#

hah

#

had to set up a small remote concrete plant just north of western oil

magic shadow
shrewd yacht
#

not sure I dare click that one 😛

magic shadow
#

it's safe

shrewd yacht
#

safe yes, but probably massive 🙂

magic shadow
#

wdym

shrewd yacht
#

if you've used all resources on the map to make a theoretical max production that is

magic shadow
#

yeah

#

enough nuclear rods for 1.18 TW and as many turbo motors you can make after that

#

before Update 4 anyway

shrewd yacht
#

how many per minute?

magic shadow
#

94.5 each

#

coincidentally

shrewd yacht
#

over 90 turbo motors per minute?!?

magic shadow
#

the world max is technically 165 but powering that might be impossible

shrewd yacht
#

haha

#

no spare oil?

magic shadow
#

idk if coal and fuel could carry the team on that

#

lots of spare coal, oil, and HOR, so maybe

shrewd yacht
#

how much spare sulfur?

#

need 480/min for 600 turbo fuel

magic shadow
#

all of it

shrewd yacht
#

that will give you enough for about 133 fuel generators

#

only using 270 crude/minute

magic shadow
#

6840sulphur/min

shrewd yacht
#

the setup to make 600 turbo fuel/minute is about 2.1GW

#

so about 17.8GW per setup

magic shadow
#

165 turbo motors need a terawatt

shrewd yacht
#

sheesh

#

can't you do more than that with nuclear?

magic shadow
#

max nukes are 1.18tw

shrewd yacht
#

really?

magic shadow
#

but then you infringe on stuff you need for turbo motors

shrewd yacht
#

ahh

magic shadow
#

hence my calculator just now

shrewd yacht
#

so what did you run out of?

magic shadow
#

uhh

shrewd yacht
#

quartz maybe?

magic shadow
#

not sure, looking through it rn

shrewd yacht
#

actually it might be bauxite

torpid robin
#

You run outta bauxite quartz and cat

magic shadow
#

ran out of silica

#

there's like 2k more cat left

#

it can't find more ways to make silica and that's the bottleneck

torpid robin
#

Interesting . Il have a gander in a min when I’m up . But normally cat is getting low . Depends what Alts you use I guess

#

But yea quartz is one of things that will bottle neck

shrewd yacht
#

you can change around some alts to shift what raw resource you use

#

you can cap bauxite pretty fast then you have to change things around

#

how many rods per minute to generate 1TW?

torpid robin
#

The joy with things now . OUL isn’t you limiting factor any more with mk2 pipes . So you can use excess oil for turbo fuel and use all quartz for production and use less nuclear

shrewd yacht
#

don't forget you could underclock to 50% and save 33% on power use

magic shadow
#

true but also that's double the building hell

shrewd yacht
#

sure, but still works 🙂

torpid robin
#

I mean you could. But for a max build there is already like 4K odd buildings . Stuff doubling that . Just for some power

#

It does get to a time it isn’t worth it

shrewd yacht
#

if you can eek out more turbo motors per minute, why not? 😛

#

tbh any such builds are impossible anway

#

the object limit for UE would be far gone

torpid robin
#

Cause I don’t think power is the limiting factor . You can get turbo fuel and coal fuel Itl help

#

You can increase that limit

#

And with the engine update . Less things will count towards that limit . Allowing you to build more

shrewd yacht
#

ok, so 80 rods/minute is 1TW gross

torpid robin
#

You mean 1tw?

#

Oh you corrected lol

shrewd yacht
#

typo haha

#

to many numbers in my head atm

#

was able to do 100 turbo motors, 93 rods and 4700 turbo fuel

#

peak power for that is 130GW or so

#

so thats about 156K MW just there in fuel pwer

#

1044 fuel gens

#

so should absolutely be possible to do way more than 100 turbo motors

#

is the power needed in the calculator off?

#

setting it to 100 turbo motors, 93 rods and 4700 turbo fuel, it says 130387MW max

jade minnow
#

You have to power the refineries to get turbofuel?

shrewd yacht
#

the fuel gens can almost cover that alone

jade minnow
#

Those are numbers I never counted with lol

shrewd yacht
#

actually more than that

#

as 4700 turbo fuel can feed over 1044 generators

#

Greenys calculator caps at 156 turbo motors and you need like just over 56 nuclear reactors to power that including power for the rods

#

2521 refineries 😮

#

the calculator is not listing water extractors though

#

and you need 407 of those

#

thats almost 8140MW alone

#

ok so this is missing all resource gens

#

miners and so on

fathom jetty
#

I don't know if this is a stupid question or not, but I'm producing 120 iron ore per minute and would like to use the Casted Screw alternate recipe (5 Iron ingots for 20 screws) to produce screws at max efficiency, but it uses 12.5 iron ore per minute and I'm struggling to figure out how I would evenly divide out the iron ore to prevent clogging. Could anybody help with this?

deft lichen
#

There's no need for equal dividing, use a manifold

#

A line of splitters, one for each building

#

The wiki has an article on that (can't link, on phone rn)

fathom jetty
#

Oh, sweet. I'll try that out

deft lichen
#

Yes exactly

#

It takes a while to start up, but is better on power and super simple to build

fathom jetty
#

I'll try it out, thank you

#

And after it starts up, it shouldn't clog right? Eventually it'll be a constant flow of ore?

fierce ruin
#

if it has been sized correctly it should consume all the incoming ore without ever stopping

fathom jetty
#

I see

magic shadow
#

so yeah the bottleneck on max turbo motors + max nukes is quartz

cedar mica
#

Think you need to run those numbers again. Satisfactorytools says you can make 156 Turbo Motors and 94.5 Nuclear Fuel rods, which is max, at the same time

#

In fact, you will only use 8184.89 Quartz per minute, with that setup

#

Its limited by Bauxite and Uranium

glossy rivet
#

I'm confused by the premise of the manifold setup (new to the game). If the premise is that the first machine has to completely fill up and then the following ones fill up as well, is the idea such that you make the amount of machines that will match your current resource input over time?

bleak coral
#

yes, however you do logistics the goal is to match input/output

#

because it's a perpetual system with infinite resources at finite speeds

glossy rivet
#

Because if not, wouldn't the machine in "front" take priority and end up producing more, or more often?

torpid robin
#

At the start yes

#

But as the front one fills up it will send everything to the next one

#

Until that is full and so on

glossy rivet
#

So if the input is 90/minute and each machine can take 30/min hypothetically, it'll fill all three machines, and then run at max efficicency?

torpid robin
#

Yes

glossy rivet
#

I gotcha

torpid robin
#

Just match the amount you have on a belt to machines and you will be fine

fathom jetty
#

What would happen if you filled it up before you started inputting the resource? would it just immediately produce at max speeds?

bleak coral
#

@magic shadow multiple maximize on greeny's calc doesn't work like you think it does. when you do multiple maximize you have to adjust the sliders to change the relative ppm. They're by default set to the same, so it sets the ppm to the lowest maximized ppm

glossy rivet
#

A buddy of mine and I spent approximately an hour figuring out how we're gonna set up a reinforced iron plating factory just over discord today. We're trying to do things without the aid of calculators and the like

#

So trying to think through logistics now

bleak coral
shrewd yacht
#

basically the splitters split evenly so the first machine in the line will get 50% of the incoming belt (assuming belt from splitter to machine can take that).

torpid robin
#

If you fill up before hand . We often call it priming . It pretty much means everything will run right from the start

shrewd yacht
#

usually you just use the smaller belt between splitter and machine

fathom jetty
#

Oh neat!

shrewd yacht
#

its rare you need more than a mk2 belt

torpid robin
junior widget
torpid robin
#

I find it easier to just keep with the same belt . It’s gonna work regardless

bleak coral
#

same, just use highest belt

glossy rivet
#

When I was thinking about the logistics, I was considering doing a bunch of splitters to get the proper intake lines for our needed constructors

shrewd yacht
#

not really @torpid robin , if you have a fast belt through then it will fill the last one faster

deft lichen
glossy rivet
#

Is that over-complicating what could be a simple solution?

bleak coral
#

it produces more during warmup if you use mixed belts, but makes no difference in the end

torpid robin
#

Yea but the front one can only fill so much until it over flows anyway lol . It’s only 100 it can take

bleak coral
#

and the warmup time is the same cause it's filling up the same amount of space at the same rate

#

just split more evenly at the start

torpid robin
#

Ye lol

magic shadow
shrewd yacht
#

the time taken to have a row produce at max is longer if you use fast entry belts

bleak coral
#

well you need some extra input to determine multiple maximize, cause stuff can conflict with each other

glossy rivet
#

Also this may seem like a silly question, but we were plotting out our iron use and decided on a ratio of approximately 3:2 for our iron whereby 3 ingots go to plate production and 2 go to rod production

shrewd yacht
#

the machines at the end will have to wait longer to get an item as the first machine will get more items faster first

glossy rivet
#

Then half our rods go to screws. Is this a tenable ratio?

shrewd yacht
#

if you got a 780 belt going through and use a 780 to the machines it will get half that which is way more than 60

magic shadow
bleak coral
#

otherwise they spend more time closer to 100% but reach 100% at the same time

torpid robin
#

I was gonna write some but cbf . It really makes no difference in the over scheme of things lol . You do you

bleak coral
#

cause it's still the same amount of ppm filling the same total space

glossy rivet
shrewd yacht
#

not about filling, but about when all machines actually start producing at 100%