math-and-meta

[robust imp]

and i don't believe it would help a lot. isn't it like 1.3x difference? my platforms and freight cars are almost always full

[vague tangle]

And is there a reason you merge them all together?

[jade minnow]

Let them run above each other and don't merge them?

[oblique hollow]

the freight platform has 2 inputs / outputs for a reason

[robust imp]

each type of item has its own storage so i have to get all of them to smart splitters

[oblique hollow]

do the check twice

2 seperate times

[sinful vale]

why are you merging belts at full capacity with different items together?

[vast jungle]

You could split the belts each into three groups of items and then merge the groups

Split them merge instead of merge than split

If you want more work you could build a smart warehouse with multiple input belts ... 3 (or more) lines of smart splitters that are merged for each item

[upper oracle]

You could install an overflow at the smart splitter and every item above your capacity goes into the ressource sink. you have always a full storage bin and produce tokens at the same time. Thats what I did

[frosty owl]

For different reasons, I had a similar issue
There are 2 warkarounds I thought of

1. (Which I used) You divide the splitters at the storage so that you don't bottleneck any (Eg: let the items with biggest throughput share less splitters and belts)
2. You send only a PART of each of those products to the smart storage (eg: split just 60/min of each material from the station to be sent to storage, sink the rest)
   As many said, merging them all together like this is quite nonsensical as you clearly have too many items/min for one belt

[vast jungle]

There is also the point that industrial storage containers have two inputs... So you could connect two totally separate smart splitter systems to the same containers without a merger for each container

[oblique hollow]

actually, yea, you can half the belt load if you use both inputs

[pine stag]

It actually feels sorta weird. Satisfactory uses approximately the same stack size and stacks per container as Factorio, but much much lower throughput. I wonder whether it's just my expectations, or there's really a problem with bottlenecking due to limited belt throughput everywhere.

Not sure how to solve my logistic issues yet :/

[sinful vale]

the thing with comparing factorio and satisfactory is that you keep in mind that since the game is in 1st person and 3rd, factory building is slowed down massively so the amount of stuff you need is lowered accordingly, if you compare your factorio base and your satisfactory one you can be dissapointed in the size

[oblique hollow]

also,
Factorio: Finite Resources
Satisfactory: INFINITE POWAAAH

[frosty owl]

Factorio doesn't have doggos. That's enough reasons for me not to play it

[oblique hollow]

They also dont have a Meme Cart

0/10

[cunning horizon]

they do have train signaling tho

🤔

[sand garnet]

satisfactory will have that too

future content

[cunning horizon]

yeah and i will lose 30lbs

i shouldn't be facetious, one of those things will happen and it isn't me losing weight

[sinful vale]

i mean, it's the same concept as starting a marathon with a 3 year head start

[oblique hollow]

One is a done game
The other is still wearing diapers

[pine stag]

I'm not trying to compare the scale of the games. Of course neat 3d graphics might require sacrifices. It's just I always have issues with belt capacity :/

[oblique hollow]

Comparing them would be unfair

[cunning horizon]

i wasn't seriously comparing them, i haven't even played factorio

[sand garnet]

@pine stag what tier are you on?

[cunning horizon]

the graphics are too much of a turnoff even though i figure i'd love it if i took the time :/

[sand garnet]

i dunno, i never felt like belt capacity was an issue personally

[pine stag]

In the middle of T3

[oblique hollow]

its only an issue at Tier 1 - 4

[sand garnet]

hm yeah I guess thats a tricky point

[pine stag]

How about creating a mod 🤣

[sand garnet]

dunno if you're already using mk3 belts

[pine stag]

No, just Mk2. Newb here.

[oblique hollow]

Does Factorio have Dick Rocks? i dont think so

[sand garnet]

if not, go get those.

mk3 belts are easier to produce than mk2 and faster

[oblique hollow]

Mk 2 Belts garbage.
Nobody will fight me

[frosty sail]

hey tom

[sand garnet]

so it's a win-win

[frosty sail]

been a while lol

[sand garnet]

hey bardo, yeah

[frosty sail]

i see you still blue

[sinful vale]

belts are only an issue before you get mk3 rolling, rip are a pain in the ass to make

[sinful vale]

"the rock begins calling you names"

[oblique hollow]

The day Mk 2 belts actually become good will be a good day for the low tier pioneers

honestly just buff em to 150

[sand garnet]

dunno if that solves the issue though

[oblique hollow]

or change the recipe to Iron Plate + Copper sheets, idk

[sand garnet]

I think its mostly the power-cost being a pain

[oblique hollow]

RIP for constructor? acceptable
RIP for Belts? Rest in Pieces

[pine stag]

Well I have a plan then. Belts Mk3 asap.

[sand garnet]

maybe increase production rates for the RIP?

obv. also adjust the cost of all items requiring them then ( increase as well )

[oblique hollow]

Changelog:
)Mk 2 Belts now require Marktoonium Plates to be built

[sinful vale]

yeah, pretty much everyone who has played the game before's plan

[frosty owl]

@shrewd yacht As you pointed out, having sushi belts mean you need to control what you put in them closely. As an example, imagine having a BUS below your buildings (from building A to E): I put on it whatever resource all those buildings need. But once building A takes away stuff, I have a free belt (or half free if it's already mixed :P). So I reuse it by putting on the output from A. Then B takes resources, but since it outputs very little I can still fit that stuff on the same belt as A used. Then C takes stuff, but makes quickwire, so I need the 2 belts freed by B and C... And so on
I'm the end, you get a lot of sushi belts going into storage and that gives the smart storage work to do: splitting them all

Of course, since it was the first time I tried making it and went for an absurd size (for the first time) it came out like such a mess ahahah
The new model storage looks waaaaaay better, but it's still empty :(

[bleak coral]

Mixed belts = spreadsheet time

[frosty owl]

Also less belts, so less hassle for my poor RAM

[bleak coral]

that's the reason I have a spreadsheet for my storage using mixed belts, no way am I memorizing the literal two dozen+ inputs it has

[frosty owl]

If I can spend a few more calculations to save in belts, I'm o Kay with it. Means I can add more machines :P

[shrewd yacht]

unless you got 8GB RAM or less RAM doesn't matter much

[frosty owl]

No kidding! 🤣
You'd be a computer

[shrewd yacht]

its all about the IPC of your CPU here

[frosty owl]

That's how much I have 😅

[bleak coral]

oh no, upgrade man

16GB isn't that expensive

[shrewd yacht]

never actually checked what the game use

had 32GB for years 😛

[bleak coral]

I've gotten it up to 14GB on kibitz' save, but I also have 32GB and I'm pretty sure the OS and most programs scale how much they use based on your max and/or free RAM

[shrewd yacht]

most games these days rarely use more than 10 or so

and even that is pretty high

[frosty owl]

My objective is pretty much to build as many machines I can before turning the power on (with creative) and just have my machine crash and burn. So Saving on belts makes a difference I think

[shrewd yacht]

what CPU you got there?

mine is begging for mercy 😄

[frosty owl]

Don't remember, some bad i7 laptop "gaming" CPU. Never been happy with it...

[bleak coral]

and in return you can make it not happy

moar belts = moar revenge

[frosty owl]

Sounds like a mod name 🤔

[shrewd yacht]

I stopped my 5 turbo motor manufacturers yesterday and shut of the sinks... 3 hours later factory was still filling buffers 😛

stopped the remaining manufacturers manually and barely noticed an FPS improvement in the main area

[frosty owl]

I'm pretty interested in seeing those nice sushis

[shrewd yacht]

guessing the CPU was already capped on graphics rendering thread or something

[bleak coral]

well it's spread out over a ton of area, hard to get a screenshot

would have to do walking tour

This is the current spreadsheet to give some idea though

[frosty owl]

Running machines is not the real issue. It's more about the number of items overall
Example, sure SOME of your belts may have emptied out in sinks, but most (behind the manifacturers and such) didn't, nor did your storages, so the overall amount of items in the game didn't change by much, just the amount of processing machines and moving parts)

[shrewd yacht]

storage? i dont have much storage

[frosty owl]

I'd be up for it someday, if you don't mind screensharing ^^

[shrewd yacht]

store some of the materials I can use a lot of in a short time, like copper sheets, concrete and so on

[frosty owl]

That's quite the handy sheet 🤔
I may steal take it as future reference... 🙄

[shrewd yacht]

my save is kind of old though and we didn't have the fancy smart splitter overflow option

[bleak coral]

yeah it's quite nice to keep track of everything, and so I can quickly answer "how much throughput do I have left for this item"

[frosty owl]

Oh boy the pain ahahah

[frosty owl]

Did you see the picture I posted and how messy it was?
Part of that was due to not thinking about writing things down 😅

So yeah, all headaches there

[shrewd yacht]

had to redo a lot when they added pipes... who base was out of power as coal plants were not working

and because it was unpowered I had respawns of mobs all over the place

that spreadsheet didn't make much sense to me

[bleak coral]

maybe someday, guess I could just stream it through discord

[frosty owl]

Just don't forget to ping me if you do, pretty please 🙏

[bleak coral]

will do

[frosty owl]

Imagine each color being one line, with the center representing the total current throughput, while the sides are the amounts of each items

[bleak coral]

it also mirrors my actual storage, each entry represents one set of two ISCs

[shrewd yacht]

how long would a big box of solid biofuel last after converting to liquid and burning at 100%

[bleak coral]

depends on how many generators you're using, you'd use the conversion rate of solid to liquid to find out the total m^3 of liquid you get then divide that by the burn rate times the number of generators you're running

burn rate is 12m^3/min

[shrewd yacht]

say one fuel generator

if you could show the calculation as well that would be great

not quite sure how to do it... a big box can hold 9600 solid biofuel

[bleak coral]

yes, and then you get 4 liquid for every 6 solid, so you mulitply it by 4/6

[shrewd yacht]

4/6?

[frosty owl]

Aka 0.6666....

[bleak coral]

yup or 2/3rd

[shrewd yacht]

so just shy of 6400 liquid

[bleak coral]

exactly 6400 liquid

[shrewd yacht]

so about 533 minutes

how do you go from decimal to minutes or seconds. 0.88 hour is how many minutes?

oh never mind.... thats simple heh

so one fuel generator would last just under 8 hours 53 minutes

[frosty owl]

0.88 hours = 0.88 * 60 minutes

[bleak coral]

sounds about right

[shrewd yacht]

problem is filling that box

[bleak coral]

if you don't already have it I'd actually look at the charcoal and biocoal alt recipes, they actually end up giving more energy than liquid biofuel if you're starting from wood & biomass

I mean I also wouldn't mess with biomass after getting coal beyond personal transport with solid biofuel unless it's just to see what you can do with it

[shrewd yacht]

goal here was as I was thinking in #satisfactory to do it all on bio based fuel

like an achievement

[bleak coral]

ah I see, would you not count charcoal and biocoal?

they'd still start as the same stuff

[shrewd yacht]

you get more energy out of the biomass by making coal of it?

[bleak coral]

yes

liquid sucks

[shrewd yacht]

oh right... its a 5 to 6 on coal and solids is cut in half

[frosty owl]

That information saddens me...

[shrewd yacht]

so even if soild have more energy per unit its less total

[bleak coral]

the wiki has the energy of the stuff, so I just calculated the amount of energy contained in the coal vs the liquid biofuel made from a given amount of biomass and wood

[bleak coral]

that's exactly it, the recipes just make a ton of coal

[shrewd yacht]

sounds to easy

[bleak coral]

it does, liquid biofuel buff 2021

[shrewd yacht]

then you can do compacted coal from that again and easily get enough power

not a huge gain to compact it though, but still

or maybe it is... its a 1 to 1 ratio on the coal, just have to add in the sulfur and you go from 300 to 630MJ

[bleak coral]

hmm normally I'm against using compacted coal in coal generators, but that does actually sound sensible

though I'd question if it's within the spirit of a "Only biomass for fuel" run

[shrewd yacht]

not sure how many MJ you spend mining the sulfur

[bleak coral]

you'd still have to hand feed, so that's within the spirit, but you're now also burning something that you don't have to gather by hand

it's not enough to make up the difference I'm sure

[shrewd yacht]

a pure node with MK3 miner is doing 4 per second

and the recipe is using 5

[bleak coral]

you could do something more in the spirit and save power: a ton of portable miners that you hand deliver into a storage container to use

[shrewd yacht]

so thats basically a bit over 0.5MWh

no wait thats wrong

its 0.0083MWh

per second

after that I'm kind of lost

apparently 1MJ is 0.00028MWh

[bleak coral]

for the purposes of satisfactory getting into that nitty gritty isn't necessary, and I don't know how accurate the math in the game is to real life

[shrewd yacht]

we need a net gain table going from one fuel type to the next 🙂

at least the cost for mining the base items on each of the miners

[bleak coral]

the way I'd approach it is to see how much extra MW I get from going to compacted vs how much MW would be used to provide the necessary ppm of sulfur at 100% usage, and see if there's a net gain

[shrewd yacht]

the wiki lists cost for recipes

[bleak coral]

those don't take the whole system into account, just the one machine

they're honestly not very useful numbers imo

[shrewd yacht]

cost per item at 100% clockspeed

you just add it up per item for each step

but the base mining step for the raw material is missing

its probably pretty high if you have to OC a miner a lot

[bleak coral]

that's probably why it's missing, changing clockspeeds on miners is really common cause you can't just build more of them and you just set it to the rate you need

[shrewd yacht]

seems a MK3 miner is basically using 30MJ per second at 100%

so 7.5MJ per unit mined

so the 5 sulfur needed cost 37.5MJ if not OC

so the net gain is 256.5MJ going from coal to compacted

thats a pretty nice gain from 300MJ

that gain is probably almost gone though if you have to OC max on a normal node to keep up with demand

not to bad... a fully OC MK3 miner on a normal would spend 13MJ per mined resource

[minor cipher]

how would I be able to configure the amount of items per second that goes through each pipe line easily

does the programmable splitter have this function?

[magic shadow]

no, that would need a manifold

[minor cipher]

alright thanks ill look into it

[rotund blade]

@minor cipher if you havnt already done that maybe you could just use separate smelters for both lines using underclocking to get the needed iron per minute to an exact

[bleak coral]

That's also a good plan, that site doesn't give you blueprints just machine count and input/output

It's not meant to plan out the logistics at all

So just cause it says you need 4 smelters worth of processing, doesn't mean you need to do that in 4 smelters

[topaz hedge]

Well, it's not powered up yet, and still has quite a bit of ways to go, but I almost have enough rubber to make cable..

@shrewd yacht it sounds like you figured it out. 1 Joule/second = 1 Watt

[topaz hedge]

satisfactorytools.com

after that you have to determine the layout and some of the finer details.

[minor cipher]

I went for the manifold design, i think im doing it correct

the place i found has 3 pure iron nodes right near each other so thats why theres a second floor

[frosty owl]

Check youtube in argument specific way
E.g.: coal generators tutorial; heavy modular frames tutorial...

[lilac osprey]

i can refer that site about machines planning

as exemple, a screenshot from a diagram for 1 'module engine'

here: better: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner

the right TAB allow you to see the list of stuff need annd more and more..

[pale aurora]

so am i right that i need 1008 steel for the 500 versatile framework needed?

[muted crypt]

assuming base recipes for everything, you need
250 cycles of the recipe (recipe makes 2 framework, you need 500, 500 / 2 = 250), which means
3000 steel beams (recipe needs 12 beams, you need 250 recipes, 250 * 12 = 3000), which means
12000 steel (recipe needs 4 ingots, you need 3000 recipes, 3000 * 4 = 12000)

[topaz hedge]

recycled rubber/plastic is so OP. i love it

[marsh gate]

Greetings, I am in need of some math help.
I'm slowly approaching the stage that I can make Fuel Gens. Going by the default 100% clockspeed, I see the FPM is 15m3/min (same as water for coal gens).
Using regular fuel, and if I went with Mk2 pipes, how many fuel gens could I possibly have (with one pipe)?
I tried taking 15 x 600, and I get 9,000. I don't think that's possible to have that many fuel gens with one pipe.

[topaz hedge]

water for coal gens is 45 a min, you're thinking of coal for coal gens :p

[marsh gate]

Oh oops, but anyway it shows 15m3 goes into a fuel gen.

[topaz hedge]

so the math is 600 capacity, divided by 15 usage 600/15. Also benie, you could use 2 mk1 pipes and feed the fuel gens from the front and back.

you could also use mk1 pipes and feed the fuel gens from the middle as well as front and back. so if you had 100 fuel gens, you'd have a pipes feeding fuel at the first one, 50, and 100.

but 600 fuel will feed 40 fuel gens.

[marsh gate]

I see now, yes.

That would definitely work, but I am working from the large lake west of the swamp (the big misty lake).
I haven't tapped into the three pure oil nodes yet.

[topaz hedge]

There's really no need to use mk2 pipes, at all if you feed liquid's like that, it works with anything that uses pipes. except for getting 600 oil out of an extractor you don't need mk2 pipes, unless you like the way they look, I think they're ugly

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/b/b6/Coal_generator_pipe_analysis.png/revision/latest?cb=20200728112323 This is more or less an example of what I mean, you can use more than one pipe to feed a row of machines.

[marsh gate]

So tap into two of the pure nodes @ 125%, yes?

[topaz hedge]

or one pure node at 250% and use a mk2 pipe, then split it off into 2 mk1 pipes at your fuel refineries

[marsh gate]

Ok.

[topaz hedge]

either method will work. tapping both of them at 125% will use less power for extraction vs 1 @ 250%

[marsh gate]

Since I need to automate computers and heavy frames prior to this, using less power would be welcomed.

I thank you for the help, wolfgrim. 🙂

[vast jungle]

I remember being in the same place a week or two ago... tier 6 activated, mk4-belts... but no HRF and no computer factory

[jade minnow]

I am actually planning a computer factory later. By that time I already have so many smart plantings etc. That I can unlock chapter 7 lol. Ran around too much to look for hard drives

[vast jungle]

the problem is there is so much stuff you can built in Tier 6 that needs computers... 😦

but a lot of Alts can make computer production much easier

the only trouble is that Refineries are so damned large

[jade minnow]

I found some computers at the crash sites so I got that going for me

I also have to make the sulfur research... Maybe I'll do that first

Or maybe... There are so many things to do 😀

[opaque gate]

does anyone know the most efficient way to make steel beams and pipes cus my current setup is 120/min coal node tht runs into 2 foundrys and those run in 1 belt then i use a manifold to split it between 2 constructors 1 pipes and the other beams

[opaque gate]

the foundrys only take 45 coal each

but idk if i should overclock

[tired raptor]

Get three and slightly underclock

[opaque gate]

ok thanks

[vast jungle]

me too, a couple of hundred... but they have run out and I had to handcraft "some" for my new powerplant... I don't want to do this again 😉

[tired raptor]

Same for me, will rebuilt my entire factory soon. Until then, only handmade computer

[quaint sage]

Aha the computers thing again

I set up a temporary line for computers and ripped it up when I had enough. I'll need to rebuild it I guess

[vast jungle]

I just added a fourth floor to my factory... this is where I will build the Computer factory the next days

after that I will remove the old stuff from floor 2 and replace it with a nice weapon factory

The walls will be more than double this high, but this shows the new place nicely...

[rustic talon]

Started a new factory today for testing. I'm setting machines up in a way that hopefully will look the most organized.

Only copper materials being made currently, I have 60 Cable, 60 Copper Sheets, and 100 Wire per minute being made, Running off of a string of 8 smelters, and producing 240 ingots a minute.

[vast jungle]

looks nice and clean

mine look always a bit messy because the maximum size is limited by the floors below ^^

[rustic talon]

It is very simple compared to my "BIG" factory, let me get the screen-shot

@vast jungle

This is my "BIG" factory.

It is stretched literally almost across the map.

[sand garnet]

but.. thats like a quarter of the map, not even

[jade minnow]

Maybe he has an oil pump in the south west so it stretches from there to the north east 🤓

[rustic talon]

I meant from an end to end.

[quaint sage]

Still no?

[rustic talon]

Like across, not like across the entire map.

It is stretched across a string of land, that is very long, are you people happy?

[sand garnet]

lol

[jade minnow]

Are the long lines in your map conveyor belts?

[sand garnet]

my factory is SO big it covers the length of my entire factory

[rustic talon]

Those are Hypertubes.

[jade minnow]

How did you make it a 90 degree corner? Did you build the tube first and then stopped where you thought your factory is gonna go?

[rustic talon]

I built a long line of foundations to each factory.

Then put the Hyper Tubes from one factory to the next.

Then established a main factory in the center, where I started.

[jade minnow]

Interesting. So you have all buildings aligned to the same grid... Makes me think about tearing it all down - again 💩

[rustic talon]

Indeed I do, all aligned to the center factory.

Allowing for the a good way of travel between each and every factory, from refining, to simple old iron and copper production.

Although it takes a good bit to build, it (TO ME) is worth the long expense.

[sinful vale]

the more time consuming part of the hypertube is calibrating it rather than making the foundations of the factories be aligned to me

[rustic talon]

Indeed, they can only be built in the direction you which to go.

Meaning one going to, one going from.

I enjoyed building my factory, it was awesome.

[vast jungle]

Hypertube networks between factories are important!

[jade minnow]

I want to stay fit, walking is better 😛

[rustic talon]

Indeed.

[balmy mountain]

What’s a good rate of plastic and rubber production around tier 6? I’m at 60 plastic/min and About to hit trains and I wanna make sure I have the oil infrastructure to support future tiers.

[vast jungle]

It depends on the Alternative Recipes you have... for example for Computers... some production methods need lots of plastic, others need lots of rubber.

design your production around the demand of stuff you need to create a lot for Tier 6...

I want to build a Computer Factory based on "Caterium Computer" next, so I designed my Oil plastic/rubber production to create more Rubber than plastic

[balmy mountain]

Thanks Henning!
I’m just paranoid that late tier 7 will end up using a ton of some oil product that I don’t have bc I don’t know what’s there yet

[vast jungle]

Just make your Oil design scalable...

[balmy mountain]

Rn it is decently scalable space wise
The plastic production is irritating due to not having the nice alt plastic and rubber recipient yet, so I’m spamming hard drives

[vast jungle]

If you need more just come back with 1000 Concrete and set another layer on top of your factory

recycled plastic/rubber together is insanely strong

I built this Oil setup this week...

[balmy mountain]

Oh wow
Alright I’m going all out on hard drive hunting
I’m out here overclocking my oil to 360/min and I only have 80 plastic lmao
Alt recipies Pog

[hardy patrol]

got my 6 computers per minute factory all hooked up last night.

that was my first "major" production line. I took oil from the west coast, copper and iron from the green fields starter area.

[vast jungle]

This is the plan for my computer factory

[vast jungle]

directly creating (dilluted) fuel from Oil is the key... but you also need both recycling Alts to make plastic from pure fuel

[minor cipher]

what is this tab? is the resources in the world actually limited?

so eventually you will run out

[warm hound]

i think its just an option to limit them

[hardy patrol]

those are max production rates.

[warm hound]

oh

[hardy patrol]

if you put the highest extractor and overclock 250%

[minor cipher]

ah so if you are harvesting all nodes thats the max you can get

[warm hound]

well with an external mod it is possible to make them limited

[minor cipher]

ok got scared that at some point a save would just become a dud

[hardy patrol]

but i think it is theoretical, because you are actually limited by belt and pipe speed.

[minor cipher]

but why

[hardy patrol]

makes the game different, more planning involved, more of a challenge.

[warm hound]

1: to make it like factorio
2: for a challenge
3: idk, because the mod maker made it so you can make them limited

[rustic talon]

😄

Happy New Years EVE to all those that this message applies!!

Also this shall be my new Computer Build very soon, as soon as I find a proper place to put the system.

[tired raptor]

Im new to this planning stuff, what is this program called?

Thank you

[fallen cloud]

Also satisfactory calculator is good

[vast jungle]

OMG... empty factory floor looks so large until I placed 14 refineries in it

[rustic talon]

I legit made a beginning refining setup of 500 plastic, 500 rubber, and 1000 Fuel per min

Then again I separate all of my factories

[vast jungle]

I justr discovered a new type of belt!

[sand garnet]

Thats a weird way to spell 'slave labor'

[vast jungle]

the "take it back" belt... especially useful for nuclear waste.

[shadow prairie]

You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com

<3 @sand garnet

[frosty owl]

Other then with crude oil (even that one if you're not confident) it's best not to go over 550/570 flow on mk2 pipes. As long as you keep it in mind, you shouldn't have flow issues

[topaz hedge]

Yeah we learned it the hard way.

[dusky dust]

Might be dependent on the number of junctions involved, too

[topaz hedge]

shortly after the mk2 and the plastic/rubber, we found our turbofuel plant was suffering from the same issue and it uses mk1 pipes

[dusky dust]

Like a 6x Wet Concrete of mine appears to have no problems, but a 10x Packaged Water right next to it does develop problems

And yeah, I'd noticed the same issues maxing out mk1 pipes w/ 10 junctions

Still don't really know if that number-of-junctions thing is a red herring or not. :)

[vast jungle]

my turbofuel-powerplant is designed (in the end) to produce 600 fuel... I hope this doesn't produce the same problem...

May have to split the output

[marsh gate]

But mommy.. I don't wanna automate Computers and HRF's!! 🥺 I wanna play with fluids! They're more fun!

[hardy patrol]

i have 1 manufacturer making HMF from runoff from other lines (and manual screw feeding) and just got computer automated last night. felt good to get those done.

6 computers / minute

[jade minnow]

Why only 570 in the mk2 pipe?

[hardy patrol]

game bugs.

[jade minnow]

Package all the oil then and unpackage it somewhere else into 2 mk 1 pipes... EZ

Oh wait it first has to flow to the packagers... Hmmmm

[vast jungle]

You need plastic and/or rubber for computers anyways

[marsh gate]

Which I have automated.

So, I'm pretty much ready to do so.

[vast jungle]

I think I will finish my computer factory this week... Looking forward to see yours

[jade minnow]

Just finished the sulfur research for some KABOOMS 😄

[minor cipher]

Hello, I am working on a simple concrete factory and instead of using just a normal balancer im going to use a manifold as I'm going to upgrade and overclock the miner as time goes on, but I was wondering about the way satisfactory tools presents the information to you and how would i translate it in game

The part im wondering about is does the website want me to overclock a constructer to 133%, does it want me to build 2 constructors and make one 100% and underclock the other to 33% or does it want me to balance them both at 67% and the other at 66%, or does it not really matter and im overthinking this

[torpid robin]

Doesnt matter . Using more machines and under clocking will save you power though

[minor cipher]

alright good idea

ill make 133 constructors at 1%

lol

[torpid robin]

Settle lol . There is a point where it ain’t worth

[minor cipher]

yes ik twas a joke

would be kinda funny to see my friend just come back to that

[vast jungle]

maybe overclock the miner so you can setup a proper manifold? 😉

[minor cipher]

yeah but the problem is that I'm just starting out in the save so I only have 60 item per second belts so it would do nothing as of rn

[oblique hollow]

find another limestone node xd

[minor cipher]

im just planning ahead

[jade minnow]

Is there a formula what power saving you get when underclocking to x%?

[oblique hollow]

actually yes
(power usage) = (initial power usage) × (clock speed / 100)^1.6

clock speed is the % number , so 0 to 250

[minor cipher]

and where would you get the initial power usage?

[oblique hollow]

power usage at 100 %

[minor cipher]

ah

also what is the items per minute of the miner that can have multiple on one node and it doesn't use any power, the human

[fiery arrow]

I think it's 100

[oblique hollow]

the portable miner?

[minor cipher]

no like the player lol

[fiery arrow]

it's probably around 100 too

[upbeat hinge]

Most of the time, if it’s not a miner, it’s better to add 1 building and underclock it vs overclocking. You save both power and shards for the cost of space. Which is abundant.

[opaque gate]

What are encased industrial beams useful for?

[stone charm]

mk4 belts

[opaque gate]

K thx

[stone charm]

and heavy modular frames

[opaque gate]

So nothing much at teir 4

[upbeat hinge]

Bragging rights

And you’ll have a supply built up for Tier 5/6 and mk4 belts

[opaque gate]

Should I let it on auto until it fills a container? And then just leave it

[upbeat hinge]

That or get a smart splitter and send overflow to a sink

Points or power savings

[opaque gate]

When do u unlock smart splitters

[upbeat hinge]

With caterium, you can do it in tier 3/4.

[opaque gate]

I dont think that happens anymore

[upbeat hinge]

You research it in the MAM

Forgot off the top of my head, I just think you need a tier 3/4 part to do it

[opaque gate]

Which one in the MAM

[upbeat hinge]

The Caterium tree

[opaque gate]

There isnt one

[upbeat hinge]

If you haven’t found caterium yet, find a node and mine some ore

You can locate one with one of the third party maps, if you are avoiding those then press on till caterium gets unlocked in the scanner in tier 5/6

Where is your base at?

[opaque gate]

Grass where the 3 iron nodes are

nex to this i have a factory

[upbeat hinge]

Well there is a caterium node near one the pure coal nodes

Covered by rocks

[opaque gate]

The one on the edge of a cliff?

[upbeat hinge]

The coal node directly south of your base

Then head west

[opaque gate]

I know it

[upbeat hinge]

It’s on the other side of that little island, has some cracked rocks on it

Sorry meant west

[opaque gate]

Here?

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, west of there, other side

[opaque gate]

???

[opaque gate]

Found it

[upbeat hinge]

🥳

[opaque gate]

How much is 1 ingot?

I built a MAM

[upbeat hinge]

My suggestion is to drop 3 to 4 little miners. And follow the research tree

Couple of smelters and constructors should get you what you need

Or you can hand craft, but my fingers are lazy

[opaque gate]

Same just got some biomass set up

[upbeat hinge]

Good, that’s the way to go

[opaque gate]

Is inflated pocket dimension worth it?

[upbeat hinge]

Yes 😛

Everything you can research currently will be worth it

Eventually you'll hit some stuff that need tier 5/6 parts

But you'll especially want the blade runners as well 🙂

[quaint sage]

lore that just invents new elements grrr

that's not how it works

[shrewd yacht]

some alt recipes are questionable at best

Like the ingots from refineries by adding water. Thats like last resort if you've tapped all nodes IMO

[topaz hedge]

uh..

[shrewd yacht]

the copper + iron ore combo to make ingots is also kind of pointless

[topaz hedge]

Not sure I agree with you there @shrewd yacht

[jade minnow]

It's especially good for mid to late game

[shrewd yacht]

the ore + water is slower to make and cost x3 power so you need a lot of refineries

[jade minnow]

In the beginning I got the copper alloy recipe that didn't help me because I got 2 pure nodes there lol

[topaz hedge]

ore+water is faster for iron. and copper too.

[shrewd yacht]

oh maybe they changed the speed

[topaz hedge]

Maybe not copper, but it's definitely faster for iron. I'll agree if you don't need much, they're pointless. but if you're really trying to do some serious factory. you need them

[shrewd yacht]

but the energy cost per ingot is insane

going from 8MJ per item to almost 28MJ

[topaz hedge]

lemme look it up xd

roughly yeah, it doubles the power cost, but that's the cost of most alts. you save raw resourses, but use more power.

[shrewd yacht]

its 3.5 times higher actually

[topaz hedge]

the insulated cable alt though.. man, I'm in love with turning rubber into cable. lol

[shrewd yacht]

coated or rubber cable?

guess you mean the rubber + wire

[topaz hedge]

is it though? I think it evens out because a mk3 miner OC'd uses a bunch of power too.

naw, rubber + wire

[jade minnow]

I also use that because I can't use as much oil so far and it was good to get a hang of the refineries

[shrewd yacht]

mixed plastic and rubber there 🙂

[topaz hedge]

If i didn't use pure alts, I would've ran out of nodes in the desert before finishing my last project.

[shrewd yacht]

for most people I guess it really doesn't matter

[topaz hedge]

not unless you're doing a big project. at that point, you'll probably already have the power to spare

[shrewd yacht]

you wont be able to tap all nodes and make use of it all before you hit other limitations

[topaz hedge]

not on the map no.

[shrewd yacht]

or play at 1fps or something crazy LOL

[topaz hedge]

but I wouldn't want to try tapping all nodes on the map lol

There's something relaxing about watching things move on lifts

[shrewd yacht]

and a MK3 miner at 250% is nothing compared to the massive amount of refineries using 30MW each would use

and MK3 pure can only be clocked to like 163% before MK5 belt is capped

wish I had a PC to build a proper factory

[jade minnow]

Just build double the refineries and underclock them to 50% 😄

[slender urchin]

finally figured how to have stable coal power

[shrewd yacht]

maybe in a month or two when they actually get the new ones in stock 🙂

[minor cipher]

I just feel satisfaction by looking at that factory, its over satisfactory

[shrewd yacht]

man... that MWh is so triggering

[minor cipher]

oh no im gonna be banned for bad pun

[shrewd yacht]

they need to remove the "h"

[minor cipher]

rip

[topaz hedge]

lol

I won't tell.

they did remove the h

move the slider to the end of the graph

[shrewd yacht]

well it shouldn't be anywhere on the graph

[topaz hedge]

well you see it makes sense, because you could say everytime the graph updates, it's been an hour.

[shrewd yacht]

the window is showing power, not energy 🙂

[topaz hedge]

so MWh is the proper measurement

proper ish.

[shrewd yacht]

not even close

[topaz hedge]

How so?

[shrewd yacht]

because power and energy is not the same

the graph is showing consumption and generation at a given time

[topaz hedge]

if the graph updates once per hour, when you hover other the past part of the graph, you used 20MWh

or 20 megawatts, for 1 hour.

[shrewd yacht]

but it doesnt

[topaz hedge]

well we don't know long an in game hour is so.

[shrewd yacht]

still doesn't make sense to me

capacity of a battery is in unit/hours

[topaz hedge]

I don't really pay too much attention to it. since Wh = Watts over an hour averaged. as long as everytime it updates was a ingame hour it's right

your electric bill is in kWh as well.

[rustic talon]

@topaz hedge Good to see you again!

[shrewd yacht]

because it calculates energy used per hour, not power used this instant

[topaz hedge]

it does both, as does your electric meter.

[shrewd yacht]

my old analogue meter only showed kWh

[topaz hedge]

I can look at it and tell you how many watts you're using.

[shrewd yacht]

this new fancy one I can press buttons to see voltage and all kinds of things

[topaz hedge]

you time the wheel and see how long it takes to do one rotation, and it says how many kW that is on the meter. it's like 3.1kW or something like that

[rustic talon]

We are speaking of a topic I am highly unfamiliar with I see.

[shrewd yacht]

right...

started with me being annoyed by the power graph in game saying MWh

[topaz hedge]

I like the old school electric meters better, I think they're more accurate. lol

[shrewd yacht]

they're not actually

[rustic talon]

All I know is that 9 Biomass Burner produce like 270 MwH

[shrewd yacht]

downside is they usually reported less than they should

[quaint sage]

they may be more precise, depending on how small the graduations are

[shrewd yacht]

they do not produce MWh, but MW

they would have generated 270MWh if they were doing so for an hour though 🙂

[topaz hedge]

where is your source that the analog meters are less accurate? because I can say that the electronic ones can vary with temperature as electronic components shift within their tolerance due to heat.

[shrewd yacht]

the old ones never got recalibrated around here at least

so as they aged they went off apparently

at least thats what electricians I've talked to say

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, I mean that's with anything that's not taken care of right? those meters are very precise instrument's and need love and care every so often

[shrewd yacht]

oh well, I just hope we do not move to hourly charges

just going to invite people to use the washer at night and so on

[topaz hedge]

another reason why the electronic ones are bad lol

[shrewd yacht]

its a cheap way of avoiding the distribution grid upgrades

sad part is the grid fee is like 50% of the price per kWh here now

25% is taxes and then rest is the actually spot price

wonder what the new aluminium recipes will look like

kind of hesitant to expand my tiny setup much more

[topaz hedge]

supposedly it's just alumina solution that's getting a rework

[upbeat hinge]

They are good if you want to do more with less. If there is only 1 copper node around and you need more copper than you can get from a smelter, they are a good alternative. At least if you don't want to transport in more via belt or other method. I did this with my Quickwire factory (for computers/hsc), needed more copper ore than the node would provide straight up. So I used the pure recipe, as you more than double your output and I didn't want to bring in copper from quite a ways away. Worked out well, but yea it cost some extra power for sure.

[torpid robin]

its a balncer. its all in the wrodng order

it should just be deleted

[stone orbit]

im very confused as to why my coal power shut down

I have two impure nodes going to 4 coal generators that should be enough right>

also two pumps so water isn't an issue

[marsh gate]

Mk1 or Mk2 miners?

And do they have shards?

[stone orbit]

mk 1

no shards

[marsh gate]

Hmm, your coal's good. Exactly what you need. It's 60/min for 4 coal gens (15/min each), and you got 60/min coal (30 x 2).

[stone orbit]

hm

mightve just been something small threw it out of balance since its exactly perfect

[marsh gate]

What are you using to distribute the coal? Load balancers? A manifold?

[stone orbit]

just belts and splitters

[marsh gate]

Are they being evenly distributed? The coal?

[stone orbit]

yes

its back up and running now so it seems like it was a short term issue

[marsh gate]

Nice.

[topaz hedge]

how's your fuel plant going benie?

[upbeat tide]

My nuke plant is at 80% completion

[oblique hollow]

[Update 4 looms in the distance]

[upbeat tide]

Got 12 indy storage full of rods already

Im good for a good bit

[fierce ruin]

thats alot of wast

[oblique hollow]

only if you use all the power xd

[upbeat tide]

788 a min at max

But it wont be at max for a long time

[torpid robin]

How many nuke plants you got ?

[upbeat tide]

158

Well, 157 and 1 at 50%

[topaz hedge]

very nice verios.

well, I've done it. used more power then I ever thought I would on my factory. Never has a circuit blowing been so satisfactory

That's interesting, The power went off because the fuel gens ran out of fuel because of the pipe issues.

[pale aurora]

i felt that pain with my water for my coal

you can fix the problem with reservoirs and figuring out what locations need pumps

[oblique hollow]

or you actually didnt feed your gens enough

[topaz hedge]

@pale aurora Nope, my issue is one with the way the game handles fluids and pipe junctions. it gets mentioned at least once a day. in a nutshell fluids stop flowing after so many junctions.

[pale aurora]

oh really?

didnt know that

maybe thats why my coal gen system fucked up a bit

[topaz hedge]

@oblique hollow Yeah, they ran out because of the pipe manifold issue.

[oblique hollow]

are you actually using pipes at maximum capacity?

[topaz hedge]

not on the fuel gens, but between unpackage fuel, and turbofuel

[oblique hollow]

ah

mk 1 or mk 2 pipes?

[topaz hedge]

@pale aurora I doupt it, the issue normally shows up in big setups

all mk1 pipes

[oblique hollow]

hmm, ok, if it really is a large manifold then i believe that

[topaz hedge]

I checked it awhile back and I had refineries starving for fuel, and unpackagers full of fuel :/

[pale aurora]

then why not connect a middle junction with a new pipe pumping fuel that isnt connected to any junction

it'd allow for it all to pump into the further refineries without fuel

[oblique hollow]

actually yes, that is a way to circumvent that

just dont merge them all into 1 pipe

[pale aurora]

like do it for every 5 junctions

5 junctions connected to the inlet of fuel being pumped with a single junction connected to the main line

then you'd have every 5 main line junctions connected to their own junctions

which'd give you 25 junctions for power

[oblique hollow]

more like: group the packagers so that you never have too much fluid in one pipes, and to limit the manifold size

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, it's split into 3 pipes. originally, I had planned for 1200 tf/min but I ended up dropping it down to 750, after I had 80 refineries built and setup.

[oblique hollow]

oof 80

[topaz hedge]

So I ended up with twice the manifold length. because it was going to be 6 pipes.

[oblique hollow]

thats 4x more than i used for my test rig to test for the junction issue

[topaz hedge]

funny enough it held out to 95% capacity, even with the junction issue

[oblique hollow]

because that issue only lets the flow rate drop by about 5%

or was it 10%?

idk, something like that

[topaz hedge]

welp, if that's the case, I guess that's more data for your test.

[oblique hollow]

dear lord, no, i am DONE with that issue. It exists, it affects mk 1 and mk 2 pipes, so i suspect its an issue with the junction itself

[topaz hedge]

ahah.. didn't notice it until I was using about 80-90% can't say when, but I started preparing for when it did die lol

[rustic talon]

Alright the beginning of the Iron Production is almost ready.

[frosty owl]

I never got updates on how things were in my save, if there were any 👀

[oblique hollow]

oh uh, i didnt have any time for that yet

[ocean warren]

got my.... iron production done.

[hexed oak]

Hey, which one of these is better? Cause I'm not sure.

[limpid silo]

Uh u i think its the second

[mossy shell]

Is there any concrete foundation "ratio" that optimizes best? Since not all machines take up the same amount of space, it's kind of hard to know if you can fit the production line you're planning onto the amount of foundations you've built.

[torpid robin]

I’m working on a 17x17 space for all . my factories . I find it works well for how I build with all types . Havnt tried it out with refineries yet

[shrewd yacht]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/f6kova/my_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_update_3_alternate/

link to a google sheet with all listed as well

[nimble ridge]

teir 3 + 4 finished on a new save, keeping things tidy

next is time for fun with oil

[shrewd yacht]

not sure why that person doesn't like Cheap Silica

we got plenty of limestone around, but limited quartz

only downside is the high energy cost

[nimble ridge]

i only dont use that because i never need silica so bad that im willing to give up nearby limestone lol

its never really the bottleneck for me

[shrewd yacht]

well you use silica for alu ingots, circuit boards and HSC

then you need the quartz crystals for oscillators ad RCU

nearest quartz for grassy start is the two normal nodes up top of the cliff around north north east of starting area

guess I could have grabbed the two pure ones more north north west in the cave kind of

the map currently has 5 times as much limestone vs quartz

[vital stratus]

Just made this. 48 refineries making turbofuel for a total of 902.5 per minute. I used smart mod,efficiency checker and area action

[vital stratus]

it can run 200 generators for a total of 30000 megawatts

[calm flax]

which is better steeled frame or bolted frame?

[vital stratus]

steeled frame is the one that uses steel pipes?

[calm flax]

yup

[vital stratus]

i think thats better

[calm flax]

I have 2x720/min iron ingots and pipes at 540/min available.

[vast jungle]

How many pipes do you have? Enough... 😉

[calm flax]

probably going to go for bolted

[sand garnet]

I like steeled frame

Makes HMF easier

[opaque gate]

what do smart splitters do?

[calm flax]

allow you to filter an item

[sand garnet]

Split items in a smart way

[opaque gate]

would you say theyre useful for teir 4?

[calm flax]

yes

useful at any tier

[sand garnet]

100% useful

You can startum using them at tier 2 even

[calm flax]

You automate biomass right? You have a container for each grass, wood, aliens parts etc... Now you have a single container to dump all of them into

[opaque gate]

i have coal power @ 1.2 gw

[calm flax]

smart splitter and blade runners is the first thing i typically go for

Yeah but i am using it as an example 😉

[opaque gate]

i thought i came up with tht lol

[calm flax]

generally for long distances it can make sense to carry slow produced items on a single belt

[opaque gate]

how long should i be able to power my factory on 1.2 gw

[calm flax]

if i was playing with you about 3-5 minutes 😉

[opaque gate]

can you configure percentage in smart splitters?

[calm flax]

no

[opaque gate]

should i just use a manifold?

[calm flax]

yes use a manifold

If you are on high speed belts. Then use the slowest belt between the splitter and the machine which helps feed things down to the end machines

[vast jungle]

I normally switch off the recurving machines, wait until they are all full and then activate them.... Easier to fill the buffers when the machines are not running

[calm flax]

I just block all the machine outputs to prime them. eg build the building in order

Something nice about smart splitters is "pre scaling" so if you have a feed of 120/min to 8 smelters. For example you can place a smart splitter in the middle of the manifold and set the centre output to overflow only. That way when you feed it 120/min the last 4 machines won't run at all. But if you switch the feed to 240 then they become active 😉

By doing so you can build the building for what is going to be required. When you unlock the better miners etc...

[rustic talon]

Anyone need help with fun factory building lol

[calm flax]

sure you expirenced and ok to play with mods?

at the late game btw

[frosty owl]

There are plenty of uses for unpaid labor ^^
I certainly could use some in the next days ahahah

[rustic talon]

Haha, very well my dear pioneer

@frosty owl what shall thy ask from another pioneer

[opaque gate]

If u think teir 4 factory building is fun then yes

[vast jungle]

I still have enough fun factories on my own to build ^^

[opaque gate]

How much nobelisks should it take to blow this big one up?

[round sparrow]

Does it blows!?

[opaque gate]

ohh so i wasted like 20 of them

[opaque gate]

does anyone know if satisfactory calculator building planner is accurate because im not sure

[kindred vapor]

idk im indian

[full rune]

i dont know im jewish

[oblique hollow]

it should be, idk, i dont use it

[full rune]

and why dont you use it

[kindred vapor]

bcus caki poon

[full rune]

precisely

[oblique hollow]

i dont need it. I cook my spaghetti without any cookbooks or guides

[full rune]

i cook my children without governments authorisation aswell

[oblique hollow]

"As an Engineer, your buildings are like your children: hit them to make them work harder"

[kindred vapor]

🇷🇴

[opaque gate]

why the romanian flag

[full rune]

i just dont feed them and then sell them

[kindred vapor]

🇮 ❤️ 🇷🇴

[opaque gate]

"some people are like slinkies they serve no purpose but it makes you smile when you puch them down a bunch of stairs"

[full rune]

ded

[opaque gate]

🙌

[full rune]

cool kid

[kindred vapor]

is it legal to sell paper on the black market

[sand garnet]

<@&387163995947270144>

[nimble ore]

wtf

[sand garnet]

I dunno man

[oblique hollow]

@finite creek

[finite creek]

So the solution is not to put them in-line, but to have them alongside the line.

[oblique hollow]

yes

[finite creek]

Well that's so obvious I have no excuse for why I didn't think of it

[oblique hollow]

Thats why it is important to remember: Pipes are directionless

[finite creek]

Valves can make them directional but obviously no valves here

[oblique hollow]

yes

[vast jungle]

Valves are a great thing 🙂

[sand garnet]

No they allow for steam and steam is bad, epic gud

[oblique hollow]

Ebic bed, they have chinese spy virus and steal my precious data

[vast jungle]

Lets agree to disagree...

[sand garnet]

Im just joking lol

[vast jungle]

ok ^^

[nova steppe]

good

lol

[bleak coral]

that's not how ISC output works, they don't act as splitters

[oblique hollow]

Only if there is something inside already

I know

If they are empty, they behave differently, or if you input as fast as you output

Whatever the case, the images on the buffers are accurate, that was the main point

[bleak coral]

it's not though, they output as fast as possible with one priority output and one overflow output with some error when they're going really fast

they never act like in the image

[oblique hollow]

So X and Y in = X+Y on the bottom, if the belt can handle it?

[bleak coral]

on the priority one, which is whatever was placed first and then is randomly selected on reload

[oblique hollow]

Ah so even worse

[bleak coral]

yes

[oblique hollow]

So X and Y in = random

[bleak coral]

and it's really error prone so they'll overflow when they really really shouldn't

like if you have 1x780 into an empty and 2x780 out it'll do most on one and some on the other

[oblique hollow]

I remeber people tried to build overflow splitters with them

And i remember that that was discouraged

Precisely because of this

[bleak coral]

oh and I misread the buffers accurate part, I didn't mean to dispute the buffers I don't know how those work, just the ISCs

yeah they aren't reliable overflow even though that's technically their behavior

[oblique hollow]

Then idk what to put on the ISC graph, honestly xd

X and Y in = pray for good fortune

[bleak coral]

a big red X and "don't try to be clever with this, the game will stab you" lol

[oblique hollow]

I think ill just remove the ISC graphic alltogether

Thats why i no longer deal with belts.

The only time i did, i built that really funny Overflow Splitter

With the cycling plastic

What was it again... Oh yeah, the CIGO - Splitter

[bleak coral]

I haven't seen that

[oblique hollow]

Ill dig up a graohic real quick

[bleak coral]

oh and it's not that I don't think you shouldn't use the double input/output, it just has to be in a way that doesn't care about the reliability of where stuff goes

[bleak coral]

like station into/out of buffer where it's just doubling the throughput

[oblique hollow]

This thing was really funny

And really compact

And difficult to set up.....
But it worked!

[bleak coral]

damn that's really clever, and completely got invalidated by the overflow option when they added it haha

I especially really like the compressed look

[oblique hollow]

Yeah, it was good for the whole 3 months that it lasted.
Watching the plastic go around in circles endlessly was enjoyable

[bleak coral]

in your opinion what do you think would be the better fix for ISC double output? fix the overflow so it's not unreliable i.e. always prioritizes bottom and does a proper overflow without errors like a smart splitter? Or make it work like a splitter when both outputs are connected?

personally I'm favorable to the latter because it could be a balancer, especially for inputs that total more than one belt worth

which is not something we have

while we already have smart splitters for overflow

also it's the intuitive function that everyone expects them to act like, and I don't see why they shouldn't

[oblique hollow]

Honestly, make it work like a balancer so i dont have to change my graphic xd

[bleak coral]

haha

[vast jungle]

don't you love it when you built a complicated piece of infrastructure and notice at the end that you built it the wrong way around?

[jade minnow]

I did that with my first long belt from base to the factory. Started on a stackable pole and in the end wondered why I can't attach it

[wind spade]

I think keeping it like this but adding a warning message with "does not guarantee equal outputs" would be enough. I don't like the idea of having a 1 building 2:2 balancer xD

[vast jungle]

I would like have a special "split-merger"... like a splitter/merger, but with two inputs and two outputs... we would need two variants, one with inputs besides each other and one with the two inputs opposite of each other.

[vast jungle]

splitters and mergers are even worse, especially when they are floating in the air in a manifold... you cannot just rotate them and you might have to remove belts below them to set them again

[opaque gate]

If i have a overclocked coal miner that splits off into 2 separate rows of 8 generators should i use a splitter or a manifold?

[jade minnow]

I'm using a manifold where I split the coal conveyor already before, feeding 4 generators in the front and then 4 from the other side manifold style

[jaunty geyser]

I think with should only have one splitter - erger, and each in/outpout is define by incoming or outcoming belt

[vast jungle]

"re-distributor"... including "smart" and "programmable"

[jaunty geyser]

no, smart and programmable are separate things

[vast jungle]

I mean we could have a redistributor in "normal", "smart" and "programmable"

[jaunty geyser]

ho, yes

[vast jungle]

just like splitter/merger... but input and output defined by belts... or maybe by settings similar to smart/programmable

we could have an "input" setting for smart/programmable... and the basic variant could have just "input" and "output"

Finally got my first "mixed belt" tower online... each of them contains two belts that go up to the top (with mergers on each floor) and then down to the bottom (with smart-splitter on each floor)

and it contains a "split ladder" which makes it more difficult to fall to the death.

now I have to decide if I want to build the same for the third belt on the same side of the factory... and maybe something similar for getting raw materials up into the factory

[jade minnow]

Where is the tower located? Between several factories and your base?

[vast jungle]

at the side of the main-base

the old design had the necessary mergers/splitters on the factory floors which consumes quite a bit of space...

[jade minnow]

I'm just using a floor below ground floor for belts to go to another wall or something

You are just redirecting?

[vast jungle]

each side of the tower has one belt going from bottom to top and then back from top to bottom...

the idea is that each factory floor can place stuff on the upward belt and each other floor can get out things it needs from the downward belt

the downward belt ends with the connection to my smart-splitter warehouse

but I am still looking for a clean way to get resources up to multiple floors... at the moment I have 15 belts for resources going up... and because of limited belt-lift length they sometimes have to go "inside" to be extended...

and because some floors only need parts of a belt, I need a smart-splitter... but then book-keeping what is left on each belt is a headache.

but some automatic "fill up with mergers" sound space consuming

[vast jungle]

I don't like my current resource-feeding system.

[jade minnow]

Use a 2 sqm lift system in the middle of the factory 🤓

[vast jungle]

2 sqm? (you mean 2 foundations?)

[jade minnow]

Yes or maybe even one depending on how big the building is

[vast jungle]

I am working on something like this, but I am unhappy with the designs I came up... conveyer lifts are damned large ^^

[jade minnow]

That way you don't see them... I did it in my first factory but the general place I got for the machines was not enough so I dismantled everything again. You just gotta leave space for belts to reach the middle of the building an not the outside like you're doing now

[vast jungle]

I don't like the idea allocating multiple foundations in the middle of my factory for vertical belt transfer, this limits the placements of buildings on the factory floor a lot

(maybe my main base is just not large enough for a design like this ^^)

[vast jungle]

Maybe I should just combine some resources on fewer belts.... Is unlikely that one off my factory floors will consume more than 240 iron (as an example)

I have too much iron ore anyways 😉

[jade minnow]

Gimme some then 😋 Always gotta think about expanding though

[opaque gate]

How many refineries + pumps would I need when starting out oil?

[shrewd yacht]

depends on what alts you've got

starting out you just have to make the regular rubber and plastic ones that has HOR byproduct and make fuel and coke from it. Coke you can sink if you need to.

a full 780 belt of rubber with all alts would use around 50 refineries and have no leftover byproduct

You also need 7.25 water extractors for that setup, so 8 with some underclocking

[old ember]

I'd start with one normal mode, over locked to 300/m. From that you can have 10 refineries, 8 plastic and 2 rubber. That gives you enough plastic for a computer factory, plus spare rubber and plastic for building.

[shrewd yacht]

wouldn't you need more rubber than plastic?

[old ember]

If you're just starting on oil you likely don't have the power for an all alt setup.

[shrewd yacht]

I made the surplus HOR into fuel and burned it at the start once I got the fuel generators

[old ember]

Hasn't been my experience. Early on you just need rubber for buildings. Plastic you need for circuit boards and computers. And for me at least, that's the main goal of the first oil stuff.

[shrewd yacht]

I think the fuel made from that mostly covered the cost of the oil setup

[old ember]

The problem with using fuel to get rid of the byproduct is that the amount you use scales with how much power your using. So unless you are at 100% power usage, your plastic/rubber will back up.

[shrewd yacht]

well I did have some coke refineries and sinked that to avoid any blocks

[old ember]

It's much easier to turn it into petroleum coke and put it into coal generators. Plus, the conversion (without alts) is much better and you get more power that way.

[shrewd yacht]

setting up pipes properly the coke refineries only got HOR if pipes got to full

you get more power from burning coke than making fuel and burn that?

[old ember]

True, you can do this. I wouldn't describe it as a "just getting into oil" setup though.

[old ember]

Unless you use diluted packaged fuel.

[shrewd yacht]

hmm... never thought about that

though I think I got diluted fuel pretty fast

recycled plastic and rubber was a pain... went through almost all alts in the game before they showed up 😦

[old ember]

Yeah, let me just check my numbers, hang on.

Yeah - Starting with 120 HOR/m
HOR -> 80 Fuel = 800MWh
HOR -> 360 Coke = 1080MWh
HOR -> 240 Diluted Packaged Fuel = 2400MWh

[shrewd yacht]

hmm

and if you add in compacted coal to the mix?

wondering if I should use my surplus coke for the backup coal plant instead of compacted coal

[old ember]

I would. Then use the compacted coal to make tubofuel.

Compacted coal is more efficient than petroleum coke though.

[shrewd yacht]

I've got a compacted coal factory right next to the coal plant and split of any surplus for backup the main line go to the turbo fuel

but I also got a belt of coke going past for the alu production

so wondering if I should split off that instead for the coal plant as backup fuel

but coke would burn faster so risk of going empty

[old ember]

Yeah, coke burns more than 3 times as fast as compacted coal.

[jade minnow]

Compacted is the one you need Sulphur for?

[shrewd yacht]

yep

[jade minnow]

But you need assemblers to make it. Still worth it?

[shrewd yacht]

sure

you could even underclock the assemblers to reduce overhead

[old ember]

I've never bothered putting it in coal generators. Turbofuel, that's where the magic happens. 😆

[shrewd yacht]

though that tactic is best for refineries and manufacturers

yeah I just tapped for backup

[jade minnow]

I like to try everything out at leadt once 😀

[shrewd yacht]

a big box of compacted coal for around 20 coal generators that I can enable by hooking a cable in my base if fuse blows

[old ember]

I'll be honest, I don't understand why you do that. At the point where you've tripped the power you're already using all of it in turbo fuel. All siphoning some off for a back up means is that you have an artificially high power generation no?

[shrewd yacht]

its not a lot, but about 10% of my total currently

[old ember]

Ah, and you've answered my question as I was typing it! 😆

[shrewd yacht]

hehe

if I trip the fuse the fuel plant is overloaded so I need to add more generators

or refineries

I've got plenty of compacted coal production

[eternal goblet]

i think i did a dumb. so i have 7.5 conveyors worth of material, and i have it on 8 conveyors because of how i did it, how do you guys think would be the best way to fix this? (just for context, i have mk++ and MK6 conveyors (2K a second) and 50 refineries doing 300 plastic a min, don't ask why, just felt like it)

[shrewd yacht]

and by having a big box of it as a buffer for the coal gens it will last for a bit while I get the fuel plant expanded

the coal gens only get overflow of compacted coal anyway so its prio is for turbo fuel

had a bad experience with tripped power and base full of enemies after a while

took me to long to get it all sorted and they respawned due to unpowered buildings

[old ember]

😆

Sorry, but that's actually pretty funny.

[shrewd yacht]

scared me a lot

keept getting punted by damn dogs all over and not seeing them

they would do weird things and be on different floors of my base

took me a whole day to get things semi cleared after they added pipes

the base was unpowered pretty long as all coal gens needed water

meh... looked at setting up 10 manufacturers for turbo motors... doubt my PC can handle all the support machines 😮

[eternal goblet]

haha after that change i went to a new world

[shrewd yacht]

just getting the copper sheets will use like 120 refineries or half the map of copper

[eternal goblet]

turbo motors are worse than super computers haha

just wait for quantum computers

[shrewd yacht]

if I don't use the pure copper and steamed sheets I need over 5200 copper/min

174 smelters and 125 constructors for sheets and other copper use

with the pure options I need to get like 20GW net power as well

so probably 25GW gross

if they add some nasty stuff using a lot of turbo motors I'm gonna cry...

[upbeat tide]

I am now happy, my nuclear plant is done. Recieving rods atm. Gonna take a while to be fully running tho.

[vast jungle]

You will notice it when the Geiger counter starts ticking 😉

[exotic ledge]

Is it strange that I actually enjoy the sound of the Geiger counter ticking? 😅

[upbeat tide]

Nah im standing at a distance now, just hope nothing is wrong down there

Checked it 3 times but... with soo much stuff

And my waste pit is at the east death wall, that was not fun to put there

[eternal goblet]

wait, i assume you can't put the used rods into the sink right?

[vast jungle]

you can try... 😉

[eternal goblet]

nah bugger that

i don't consider using the mod that deletes it for you as cheating haha

[opaque gate]

Is 3 refineries enough when starting oil?

[eternal goblet]

i'd say use 4 or 6, half plastic half oil, then use the heavy oil residue to make fuel

[opaque gate]

I dont have fuel yet

[eternal goblet]

but other people might have better ideas

[sinful vale]

in the same way that 1 constructor is enough at the start of the game

[opaque gate]

Also do I need water for oil?

[sinful vale]

well, you do have it, it's that you have no use for it yet, to get rid of heavy oil residue, turn it into coke and sink it to begin with

[sinful vale]

for an alt, not for the base recipes

[opaque gate]

Is this a good area to start oil?

[sinful vale]

the blue crater has a decent amount of oil for earlier set ups, yes

[upbeat tide]

the blue crater has the second highest oil concentration, behind north shores

[vast jungle]

can it be that the "Merger" has a slightly different height than a Splitter?

it looks strange if I stack them side-by-side

[upbeat tide]

SCIM makes this look simple 🙂

[sinful vale]

i don't think so, or at least i haven't noticed any difference

[vast jungle]

Splitter and Merger side-by-side

[sinful vale]

the merger seems higher up in the air

[vast jungle]

I just placed them on the same foundation

no strange tricks involved

[sinful vale]

oh, you are right, i just checked myself

[vast jungle]

funny, isn't it? I spend a couple of minutes trying to find the mistake in my placement before I re-did it on somewhere else to verify 😉

[still marten]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/kozjwu/merger_causing_bottleneck_holding_up_all_other/

Anyone got any fixes for a huge merger bottleneck?

[upbeat tide]

Yes

Split the system into smaller segments

[sinful vale]

not putting more items in a belt than the belt can handle

[upbeat tide]

Try to not have more than 15 mergers or splitters on the same run of belt

And yes if your overloading the belt will cause big issues

Also, dont try to mix belts until you have smart/programmable splitters

Mixed belts is not fun to deal with

[still marten]

I guess, I just wanted to merge everything into one conveyor, then use a smart splitter to take each part into its own container. Should I instead not use the merger and feed each smart splitter directly from its conveyor?

[upbeat tide]

If you have filtered splitters its doable, but the belt needs to handle everything your tossing on it

Like if you want to merge 5 different items at 60 a min each your merged belt has to be able to handle it all

[vast jungle]

you could built multiple parallel smart-sorters and merge them for each product.

this way you have no bottleneck

easiest way to do it is to use Industrial Storage containers and build a separate Smart Sorter for both inputs

[still marten]

Alright I seem to have sorted it by not using a merger at all, but instead splitting each conveyor into it's own parts, then sorting those into containers. Could of made it neater if I tried but oh well

[eager scarab]

I have them and still refuse to use them

[still marten]

Mergers? They sure have a use

[frosty zinc]

Mergers are INCREDIBLY useful. You can chain machines in parallel, splitting into them, and merging the output to get massive production speed increase.

[still marten]

Oh i was replying to the guy above me, on mobile I could not see what he was referencing so I thought he was talking about mergers lol

[frosty zinc]

The best use for Programmable splitters it to split out the contents of a truck shipment.

[still marten]

Yeah I got Mergers set up :P

I use programmable splitters to organise storage, so each one of the resources I produce go in a seperate container

[frosty zinc]

I think that parallel processing is a basic function of the game you learn early on.

[still marten]

Oh and programmable splitters allowing you to do stuff with overflow is SO useful

[frosty zinc]

The main reason not to merge and separate lines of mixed product is that it results in shared transport capacity.

[still marten]

Yeah I got that

but I kinda had no choice but to merge lines

I had to transport different types of stuff over thousands of metres

it wasn't affordable to make 3 seperate lines

Is there a way to increase the capacity of my electric system without just building another coal gen?

[sinful vale]

building another biomass burner

[still marten]

For coal ^^

I dont use biomass anymore, idk if I should combine the two or what but biomass is a lot of effort for what its worth

[sinful vale]

it is a lot more effort than what is worth, but you did ask for a power source that isn't more coal gens

[still marten]

True

[sinful vale]

i guess maybe more fuel gens would work too

[still marten]

I live on a lake I suppose I'll just make another coal gen

[sinful vale]

it would be the easier way, yes

[vast jungle]

YES... the first computer arrived in my warehouse

7.5 computers per minute 🙂

[vast jungle]

looking on the list Crystal Oscilators, High-Speed Connectors... especially the last one, because it leads to Supercomputers...

[vast jungle]

but first more vertical infrastructure

[rustic talon]

This is my current Iron Project! I have yet to touch this design since the 31st of December 2020

[vast jungle]

18x Iron Rod, 14x Screw... you are screwed... (and rodded?)

[frosty owl]

@calm flax Yeah but for a manufactorer do you not trade 1 width of space for 4 vertical?
In my designs, those numbers are reverted (as I use minimum height floors for beltwork) but yes, good trade to me. Especially if you consider that the more belts you need (so less chance to use smart splitters due to throughput) the bigger the advantage of having an underfloor as the feed belts will get higher and higher, eventually surpassing the manifacturers themselves

Then again: I like being able to access my machines easily from walkways, without having to do acrobatics over belt busses xD

[cursive garnet]

@patent fulcrum underclock a smelter to 83%

nah, just trying to make it efficient

[round sparrow]

Any guide to split in 5?

[rustic talon]

Or make one operate at 183%

[frosty owl]

1 to 5?

[sinful vale]

manifold it, if you are dead set in load balancing, split into 2 , split into 2 again and have 1 of each pair be split and merged in the middle for the 5th

[rustic talon]

The build is massive, but worth it, to me

[frosty owl]

... Above for the convoluted way a manifolder would do things...
Otherwise @anker#8758 just split in 6 and merge 1 back to the input line. Account for the "extra" material on belt due to the merge

[calm flax]

@random spoke This is probably a more detailed example

[random spoke]

Huh, I see... I think I've never done that. But I can say that It looks disgusting (nothing personal) to me and you can't upgrade the belts in the main manifold line unless you deconstruct the mergers

[calm flax]

I have never done it. Its not that clean. It has some serious disadvantages. It needs smart splitters set to overflow on center only

The advantage is you never need to upgrade the belts 😉

[round sparrow]

Yes one to 5

[calm flax]

Doesn't matter how many assemblers you have. For the standard reenforced plates it needs a belt speed of 40 🙂 Since the item count on the belt goes intiially 40 -> 10 -> 30 -> 0 -> 40 and repeats

[round sparrow]

Ok, i will try it!

[frosty owl]

See the suggestion below lan's for one that uses less sllitters/mergers

[frosty owl]

Assuming you built this already with all the needed belts and don't intend to expand on the future ^^

[calm flax]

@frosty owl no it scale indefinitely like that without ever needing to upgrade a belt. Just need to change the feeds on the constructors and stack the output belts

Its the same concept/principle as the pipe "top up" but with a belt

[frosty owl]

So you double the height of that 2-poles high conveyor BUS up to 5-poles? 🤔

[calm flax]

eh?

[frosty owl]

"Stack the output belts" = double the amount of belts. Current BUS is 2 poles high (since 1 conv is in ground), meaning it would become 4 or 5 poles high after the first expansion?

[calm flax]

Well that depends. Like this will work with a mk2 belt. But for 5 poles your going to be make 5 * 120 rplates. I guess thats a win?

Its also going to be a 300 meter manifold 😛

[frosty owl]

What do you mean "it depends"? I'm just asking if I understood correctly how you would expand said bus 🤔

[calm flax]

you simple expand it. The pattern is 3 constructors to 2 assemblers for rplates right? The plate bus needs to be mk1 and the screw bus needs to be mk2. Doesn't matter how long it gets. You just keep merging with it to maintain thoughput.

[frosty owl]

Ah, I assumed you still rerouted some of those to storage. My bad 😅

[bleak coral]

I don't know how it works either, because that's the tiniest goddamn picture I've seen since making an avatar in 2005

[hardy patrol]

ha!. looks to be a load balancer that divides into 2, then 6, but feeds 1 back to the source, but idk. its some weird math and balancing act.

[oblique hollow]

by feeding 1/6 of the input back into itself, instead of having 100% / 6, we now have 116,6%. by keeping this loop up [ = (((1 + 1/6)/6 + 1)/6 + 1)......]
we eventually reach 120% input / 6
1,2 / 6 = 0,2, so 20% of the input on each output. so exactly 1/5

[topaz hedge]

is that a balancer? Someone needs to get their ass to the church of manifold and repent asap

[rustic talon]

Indeed, manifold equals simple!

[patent oyster]

Hi guys, I just started this game and play straight through for a week

so after I finally unlock my tier 6 tech with fuel generator

I realized the fuel generator is actual less efficient compared to my previous oil to residue to coke to coal generator route

I did a quick calculation, could you guys let me know if I get the math right?

the alternate route (heavy oil residue) really devalued (or meant to replace) the existence of fuel generator?

it's kinda of unrewarding after you have dump all those material cost to this tech tbh

[bleak coral]

residual fuel flat out sucks, and you're using an alt which makes coke better

you're still missing the other half to make fuel good again: diluted packaged fuel

Also with taking into account underclocking where possible I get for net power and assuming a normal node:
straight fuel: 700 MW
alt hor to fuel: ~830.9 MW
alt hor to coke: ~1,018.5 MW

Interesting though, I hadn't considered that the heavy oil residue alt makes coke better than straight fuel until you get diluted packaged fuel

diluted packaged fuel + heavy oil residue makes 320 fuel from 120 crude though and comes out to this:
1 normal node oil extractor: -40MW
2.67 water extractors: -50.53779MW
10.67 packagers: -105.2689MW
9.34 refineries: -275.33934MW
21.33 fuel generators: +3200MW
net power gain: 2,768.85397MW

@patent oyster

diagram of plan: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=SJKoihu80nmeNcyUE4Fj

[patent oyster]

Wow Thank you so much! @bleak coral

[bleak coral]

no problem! and you've definitely found why I think either coke needs a nerf or residual fuel needs a buff, because the only reason to use residual fuel over coke is if you don't feel like going to get water. and most oil is next to water anyway so..... 🤷‍♂️

[patent oyster]

I will definitely try it out, now I feel much rewarding cause I thought the coke over perform fuel make my effort useless

[bleak coral]

nope, only in this specific circumstance while you have heavy oil but not diluted fuel

also keep your eye out for turbo fuel, that's when it gets really crazy

300 oil into 20k+ MW

[patent oyster]

Yeah, thank you! I'm still on my first play through though, so I just did a quick glimpse and feel the logistic issue for the turbofuel might become a trouble

[bleak coral]

for sure, doing what's fun is most important

[patent oyster]

👍 😆

[rustic talon]

This is the beginning factory completed, besides a few machines needing to be hooked up to power and me also needing more power.

This is the blueprint designed for this build, all the numbers are correct.

[hasty basin]

Thatssss uhm, Big

[rustic talon]

Indeed, but produces all beginning items at a decent rate.

The design is manifolded so it takes a good minute to fill up, but once filled it is a 100% efficient design.

[hasty basin]

I just have a messy setup to make rotors/reinforced plates and modular frames

And my Power is crappy too, we plan on moving to another location

[bleak coral]

that's really well organized and a good size, nice job!

[rustic talon]

Thank you @bleak coral

Why not make a separate power plant @hasty basin

[hasty basin]

Soon we will switch to coal, no more worries about energy for a while

[rustic talon]

I can build the power plant for you if needed.

[hasty basin]

No thanks im pretty good with electricity, real life helps haha

[topaz hedge]

I thought I was good with electricity irl. guess I'm not.

[bleak coral]

just remember our wires are magical and hold infinite current, so no need for separate grids

[hasty basin]

I plan on building power plants for each Production, like lets say 5000mwh for iron

So i just have it easier when something breaks or needs rebuild

[topaz hedge]

apparently one of the wires I fixed kicked a 60A breaker the otherday. I half blame the shitty homedepot UF splicekit.

[bleak coral]

that's not going to be viable as you scale up in power and do the more complicated stuff

[rustic talon]

I doubt you will need 5000mwh for Iron Production

[topaz hedge]

Imagine building a powerplant for each stage inside my monstrosity

[hasty basin]

Do you think I should combine all plants into one magic wire