#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 490 of 1

oblique hollow
#

These arent Bernoulli or Navier-Stokes equations, Ven

frosty owl
#

.... Wouldn't that LITERALLY cap some fluids at les then 600 then?
Doesn't sound very smart o.O

oblique hollow
#

Ok, wrong wording: it seems that Viscosity increases the acceleration time

frosty owl
#

Ohhh

#

Just make it less "reactive" huh? That'd work

oblique hollow
#

Which sort of is ok as an interpretation for viscosity. Honey could flow just as fast as water. But quick changes? nah

frosty owl
#

My little knowledge of fluid simulation helps me following you this time xD

oblique hollow
#

Yay

tender compass
#

Hey @oblique hollow you see my stencils?

oblique hollow
#

I saw the assembler one. Did you make more already?

frosty owl
#

But if viscosity only affected acceleration I don't see how that would lead to the 600/min issues...

oblique hollow
tender compass
#

These are just the ports, there will be stylized building images they'll be pasted onto, to form each structure.
https://i.imgur.com/49WVST4.png

The blanks space under the ports will be used for structure name, and the space can be used for a power symbol

Imgur
frosty owl
oblique hollow
frosty owl
#

Mhh, doesn't sound implausible, but sounds trivial enough the Devs would think about it 🤔

#

I might be putting them on too high a pedestal here xD

tender compass
#

manifolds are great for small scale when your supply is greater than your consumption. But when you start having tight tolerences, it's better to go with branching systems

frosty owl
#

Like a branching manifold?

oblique hollow
#

Aka balancers

#

Thats the goal to find out here: Are Pipe Balancers superior to Manifold?

frosty owl
#

I found merging balancers and manifold to be the most effective way of doing things. Although it's kinda... All balancing at that point, I guess... O.o

oblique hollow
#

Answer: Im not even sure at the moment

tender compass
#

conveyor design boils down to serial vs parallel

oblique hollow
#

..... I havent thought about Injection manifolds, though....

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

Ugh I HATE THIS PROBLEM ALREADY

dusky dust
#

Hah, yeah, it's pretty soul-sucking to debug and investigate

frosty owl
tender compass
#

fluid buffers help :)

dusky dust
#

Takes so long sometimes to find out if something's working or not

oblique hollow
frosty owl
dusky dust
#

I've been happy to have FICSMAS lines to distract me with; hoping I'll be a bit refreshed when I get back to my debugging. :)

oblique hollow
#

Pipes are way too complex to just say "Just use [Valves / a Buffer / Pumps] tehe :)"

dusky dust
#

('course I'll probably finish that up just in time for U4 to drop and break all of it. :D

frosty owl
#

I wish I could finish my turbomotors in time for U4 ;-;

tender compass
#

If you put a set of fluid buffers (or industrial buffers for mk2 systems) - and let them fill up before you start draining, and have that set with multiple inputs on a manifold, and a manifold on the back side with multiple taps, it'll balance out the quantity nicely. It's still prone to issues of supply vs demand.

But that's how I deal with water and oil lines

#

the buffers just give me the ability to merger different quantities into a single pool to tap for different quantities - and provides a backup system if I need to do any pipe work, or the power goes out.

frosty owl
#

Also, just thought about it other day, but we could use a looped conveyors with 1 input and 1 output to "count" or give the "results" of the operation of circuits @oblique hollow
E.g.: packager sends 1 packaged water on the belt. The splitter dojng as "output" of the belt is connected to a full belt, so as long as that belt is full, the number of items on the belt relate directly to the amount of fluid received by the packager (or packaging it received, whatever)
Just some random thoughts

oblique hollow
#

The test rig i had had a buffer at the base of the manifold. CONSTANT 600 in, 600 out.
Result? 2 refineries were starving and the buffer was filling up. And dont ask "what about using Pumps/valves?"

#

I even prefilled all the refineries

frosty owl
#

Which refineries were full and which not?
Wasn't it just because some kept demanding too much? (I'm Naive, I know)

tender compass
#

PIpes have issues, that I can't repeat. I've had to destroy and rebuild pipes to get them to flow.

frosty owl
#

There you have it, if only I sent my message 1 second later...

oblique hollow
#

When i used Valves on every single refinery, ALL OF THEM had around 95% efficiency

#

And without, only the last 2 - 3 had trouble

frosty owl
#

Did you check for leaks in your pipes?

tender compass
#

Something else I noticed, when I build longer pipes with less sectioning, my pipeworks work better.

#

the more sections, it seems the more flow rate issues I have

oblique hollow
#

Yeah, Dylan said that lots of sections increase calculations and slow everything

frosty owl
tender compass
#

yeah, don't do that lol

frosty owl
#

Omg, my spelling is horrible today. I'm suffering

tender compass
#

I was watching a youtuber, and - though I read it on screen, never realized it - the R to change build type. Love the vertical. No more sectioning to build nicer layouts.

oblique hollow
#

Pipes would benefit from the Hypertube's Noodle mode

frosty owl
topaz hedge
frosty owl
topaz hedge
#

I mean, if you can hook .25 belts and .75 machines up to something, lemme know bud

oblique hollow
#

.75 machines = 1 machine at 75% clock speed

#

checkmate

frosty owl
frosty owl
fierce ruin
#

^ idd

daring mesa
twin jacinth
#

Just some science for solving problems at merging side of conveyor manifolds:

📎 unknown.png
wind spade
#

it's an issue of merging to max belt, if possible, try to avoid merging to max

twin jacinth
#

You say both problems I described is because of merging to max belt?

#

Anyway, I had to apply both tricks and now finally its running smoothly

wind spade
#

often merging to max is an issue

twin jacinth
#

I leave the picture as it is, because the two symptoms are a little bit different.

wind spade
#

but neither of them actually hurt your production rate

twin jacinth
#

when the buffer gets full, the building stops

#

just for a moment, but still

#

And I just discovered, that not just the last building is backup up, so its not enough to use mk2 at the last merge. Items in last-1, last-2 buffer is also accumulating

#

or maybe not, still testing

peak basalt
#

Its just draw.io with a custom library

sand garnet
#

manifold

bleak coral
sand garnet
#

thanks Lund

bleak coral
#

it works for splitting a line to two factories too, once the one needing 75 backs up, the other factory will get 225

#

also that is an easy load balance if you want to do that: split 225 into 3 and then merge two lines into 150

sand garnet
#

I think I just vomited a little after reading the words 'load balance' 😛

night jay
#

lmao

bleak coral
#

hey if it's simple, why not?

#

an extra merger ain't a big deal

rustic talon
#

I'm going to do a Modular framing blueprint next.

wispy cradle
#

i had no problem with output merging, but my max was mk4 belt(480)

daring mesa
#

Conveyors > Trains, Tractors, and all vehicles used to transport materials once set up

wispy cradle
tender compass
#

I might play with trains just to have a train, but yeah... dialup is still better than hughesnet. Steady stream is better than large drops.

twin jacinth
#

@wispy cradle of course I have. I cant avoid it if I want to merge the 540 with the 60.

wispy cradle
#

the problem is before it. In the second image you are merging a mk4 belt with 480 throughput.

#

Use just mk5 in all your scheme and it will work.

#

and for testing, you can use low tier belts just before maximize it.

twin jacinth
#

where is this problem in the diagram? I Wanna correct it

bleak coral
#

I don't see the issue either, the moment the belt connects to the merger it's taking it it in at 480 but leaving at 780

twin jacinth
#

just try it.

bleak coral
#

I'm saying your diagram looks fine

wispy cradle
#

all bottom mk1 at 60 throughput are wrong

bleak coral
#

how are those an issue?

twin jacinth
#

why are those wrong

bleak coral
#

where'd you get this rule that you shouldn't merge a full belt? that's only true if you don't mix belts, the belts are mixed

tender compass
#

I would use mk1 for the first few, mk3 for the next, and mk5 for the last few.

bleak coral
#

I mean this all seems unnecessary because the behavior you're describing as a problem shouldn't be happening with all mk5 belts

wispy cradle
#

the inputs will compete for output and they dont have any room for errors. We get small errors

twin jacinth
#

If anybody could show me how you can merge with manifold 10x600 into a 600 line, I would be very happy.

#

This is the closest I could get to a faultfree merging

wispy cradle
#

Just use all mk5

bleak coral
#

I don't agree with the merger limit you're describing, but yes just use all mk5 it's fine

wispy cradle
#

or fix what I just pointed

twin jacinth
#

thats not working

wispy cradle
#

It is like my first problem here @bleak coral .

#

where my main line was mk3 and I was spliting side of mk1

#

I was getting just a bit less than 60 on sides. Weird, but it was happening.

tender compass
#

a simpler solution, would be to use the next lowest belt for the output to manifold. It'll help prevent the mergers from prioritizing manifold traffic.

twin jacinth
#

So far I was using MK5 everywhere. But in that case, buffer of first 2 building is filling up.

cedar mica
#

There is no merger limit, but belts have been known to be funky when FPS drops too low

tender compass
#

so where the manifold goes to mk3, use mk2 for input belts

cedar mica
#

So if you are seeing an issue, load a test world and check there. Plenty of ways to get creative going

twin jacinth
#

Jesus, how is FPS affecting the behavior of the belts !? Is this a thing??

tender compass
#

There's no limit, but there is, because of math.
If you put a mk5 into a splitter, and a mk1 on one output and mk4 on the other, and you send 4 items at a time down the mk5 - 1 item will end up on the mk1, and 3 on the mk4

bleak coral
#

the FPS has to be really low and the belts really fast for us to notice, that's why we don't have mk6 yet though

cedar mica
dusky dust
#

It's honestly not uncommon for internal game math to rely in part on framerate.

tender compass
#

mk6 belts could cheat - be covered belts that you can't see the items. Then the items don't even need to exist, and so it's just math.

#

the math would still be affected by fps, but there's less items impacting fps

dusky dust
#

It's less common nowadays, but games can even have problems when folks push framerates too high, let alone too low

twin jacinth
#

Scrhrodingers belts

tender compass
#

basically, yes. meouch

cedar mica
tender compass
#

think of it more as a "cabled teleporter"

twin jacinth
#

Anyway, it would be awesome it somebody could draw a faultfree 10x60->600 manifold merging drawing then

tender compass
#

then mk7+ would be possible, with just design changes to the cover :D

bleak coral
#

that's assuming all the fps problems are related to items on belts, which they're not

cedar mica
tender compass
#

@twin jacinth - I described it already. Where your mk3 manifold belt is, the merger before it is being fed with a mk2 manifold belt, and a mk1 input belt. Change that mk1 to mk2. Then, at the merger that feeds the mk4 belt, use mk3 belts to feed that merger.

twin jacinth
#

@cedar mica I know it shouldnt be an issue. But in practice there is problem with it!

cedar mica
#

Oh, the things comes out at the exact same rate, so merger stops a little to switches between...

tender compass
#

also, just using mk3 input belts to a mk5 manifold belt should be enough.

twin jacinth
tender compass
#

Yeah

twin jacinth
#

and where is the other modification, I dont get that

tender compass
#

because the lower speed belts are fighting for placement from the much faster belts

twin jacinth
#

all merger inputs should be the same belt speed?

wispy cradle
#

Like I told before,

tender compass
#

when your merger outputs to the next higher mk belt, the input belts to that merger should be the same.

So, merger feeding a mk5 belt should be fed by mk4 belts,
mk4 fed by mk3
mk3 by mk2

twin jacinth
#

hmm ok, Im gonna try this, I havent tested this variation

tender compass
#

@wispy cradle if they're all mk5, it's possible for backups to occur

cedar mica
#

The merger switches between the belts and does it X amount per sec. So if 2 belts sends resources with the same timing, the merger has to choose between which belt gets draw. Probably a math issue

mild wind
tender compass
#

Yes @cedar mica - exactly. Same thing happens for splitters and mergers, just opposite directions

wispy cradle
tender compass
#

I have to politely disagree with your opinion with observations.

peak basalt
#

I would agree that it could cause small backups on the belts, but nothing that would back up into a machine.

wispy cradle
#

@tender compass I tested a lot with mk4 belts, no problem. Just if mk5 are different

tender compass
#

I don't have a gimp PC. Ryzen 1700, 16GB DDR4 3200mhz, 980 Ti

#

and IMHO, it's not over powered enough to cause any issues on that side.

#

So, again, mine and @twin jacinth 's observations are that at some point, too many mk5 belts on a manifold will cause backups to the machines

twin jacinth
tender compass
#

@twin jacinth that should work.

twin jacinth
#

Im VERY curious. I will test it later on.

tender compass
#

I mean if you want truly fault free though, you'll do a balancer design

muted crypt
#

how do you do fellow math nerds

frosty owl
tender compass
#

THAT right there hits the head on the nail!
The internal storage will be filled up more quickly by the higher speed belt if there's a big difference between speeds.

frosty owl
old ember
frosty owl
# tender compass THAT right there hits the head on the nail! The internal storage will be filled ...

I think in the end you won't have backups in manifold UNLESS you stop the output for even a moment for some reason
E.g.: producing 780 screws minute, even the last merger should still balance out fine with no backup (not keeping FPS issues in account) as long as it's MK5 output never clogs up. It's internal storage should be enough to manage any small fluctuations in item flow due to the number of items outputted every production cycle
Dunno if I explained what I mean properly

#

If it clogs up even for a moment, those materials will kind of stay there forever, unless you stop the production

#

"stay there" as in they get constantly replaced by new ones, so there is always a certain extra amount on belts or in storages

old ember
#

You do get the thing that each tick is different for each machine part. I get this with fused quickwire (or Fused Quckwire). They output 12 units, all at once, every 6 seconds, so depending on when the machines start you get a lot of material swamping the belt all at once, then clearing through.

#

So there is a momentary backup.

twin jacinth
#

@tender compass Shall I do the same equalization at splitting side at the splitter's outputs similarly? or there it doesnt matter?

tender compass
#

if you've got tight tolerences, you should use a balancer for output

#

it's more splitters, but it's more reliable

zenith apex
#

👉 👈

mild wind
#

wait so what are the objectivly best alt recipes for efficiency?

#

i know casted screw is rlly gud cuz it cuts out a set of constructors

#

but other than that i know nothing

frosty owl
wispy cradle
tender compass
#

I have come across some alts that are more complex and even take more (but different) resources.

#

but if you havn't got enough of one resource, that alternate may be the only way you can build the thing

#

what diagram stencils should I work on next? I've got all the conveyor and pipe connectors, and the power connectors too.

#

OH! Actually, I don't! I need input only (for machines) and output only (for generators)

old ember
#

Depends what you mean by "efficient". The recycled rubber, recycled plastic, diluted fuel and heavy oil alts are amazing for getting the most out of your oil nodes.

#

But the set up is pretty complex and uses a crap ton of machines.

tender compass
#

There's tradeoffs for most alts

old ember
#

I have a set up that gets 1800 plastic and 1800 rubber from two pure oil nodes. But it's something like 180 refineries and draws 10GWh of power

old ember
mild wind
tender compass
#

more resource efficient, more time efficient, more power efficient, different resources, more/less complexity for factory setup

old ember
mild wind
#

oh my god

#

wow i am so behing that

old ember
#

You'll be amazed how quickly you get to this point. Once you've built your first mega structure it becomes easier.

#

This, by the standards of a lot of the people here, is pretty tame tbh. 😆

mild wind
#

ya ik abt the diluted packaged fuel thing and i plan to make that my main fuel source once i finish tier 5 and 6

old ember
#

Solid shout.

mild wind
#

that way ill be prepared for the tier 7 rework and tier 8

frosty owl
#

@oblique hollow this is the setup I'm testing now. 600 oil in, all made into HOR (600+200 pipes) then into fuel
I'm letting it run to see how it goes, is this good enough? (If the screenshot isn't here already it means my sucky internet is still loading)

rustic talon
old ember
mild wind
#

ouch

frosty owl
frosty owl
old ember
#

Ooof.

#

I was just about to start on TM's and Supercomputers. Now I'm just going to build something quick and dirty and start stock piling them.

upbeat hinge
#

I hate everything I build and tend to rebuild endlessly.

old ember
#

I don't mind rebuilding stuff, I hate tearing down the old stuff. Takes so long, and I always end up having to play "hunt the box of shame" as I do it.

upbeat hinge
#

Yea, after several tear downs I gave in and added the Area Actions mod. I don’t use it for much, but mass dismantle is awesome.

old ember
#

Tempted to install area actions when T8 drops to make that process easier.

#

How does it manage the resources you get back?

upbeat hinge
#

It offers to put it in a box next to you

old ember
upbeat hinge
#

Lol

old ember
#

Yeah, might look into that. I have my first proper base which I am not too happy with any more as well. This would be useful there too.

rustic talon
#

I have never reached the Refining stage of the game....

upbeat hinge
#

Just gotta push through at some point

rustic talon
#

I just mainly help people in their worlds now....

#

Like building and organizing and such.

#

Anyways I did my blueprint layout for today, now to play some games.

old ember
#

I have a small issue playing with others. I'm an engineering project manager IRL, and apparently I sometimes forget it's a game 😆

rustic talon
#

I'm a soon to be soldier.

#

I take my GED test January 14th.

upbeat hinge
#

Good luck

old ember
#

Good luck mate!

tender compass
#

@rustic talon American?

rustic talon
#

Indeed

tender compass
#

@rustic talon It's a great thing to serve your country, to potentially put your life on the line for the values, prosperity and pride of your nation. As a fellow American, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for stepping up to protect this country.

rustic talon
#

I really appreciate it, although I have not done much, I will, and that is what counts

tender compass
#

btw, MEPS will drive your insane. Don't let it bother you. And, don't eat a big dinner the night before if you're anywhere near max weight. You can get weighed 3 different places, all say you're 190lbs - MEPS will add 10 to that. lol

vast maple
#

they gotta patch the box meta

#

i legit transported my factory from grasslands to desert

mild wind
#

so useful thoooo

mild wind
#

what program/website do u guys use to set up ur factories?

muted crypt
#

like plan layouts or actually build?

peak basalt
old ember
frosty owl
#

Alright, I made it.
Sorry for the double ping @oblique hollow
Oil works like a charm, no issues there. Of fuel, only the last refinery of the 600 HOR manifold line gets slightly starved; with a double manifold (600 -> 300x2) the loss is about -0.5/minute, a bit more with a normal manifold.

📎 Screenshot20201207-22212000000.png
oblique hollow
#

so there is a loss

sand garnet
#

shitty devs amirite

#

I wonder if this is even fixable

oblique hollow
#

Unplayable.
Dogshit game, uninstall

daring mesa
#

Oh, btw, earlier you said having fuel as a byproduct never works. That was false. By making the main products overflow into an AWESOME sink you don't have to worry about those backing up, and I really don't care if the production of those items scales with my power consumption

loud dew
#

But you can pet dog

sand garnet
#

sf_xeno_basher best way of petting

frosty owl
#

With this setup (double manifold again, 7.5 refineries for each pipe, plus 5 on another pipe) there is a SLIGHT accumulation of HOR in some refineries: the HOR seem to pile up in one refinery, then unload and make another one pile up, so it's hard to keep track, but I'm pretty sure there is a slight backing up, maybe less then 1/min

📎 Screenshot20201207-23525100000.png
frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

I had refineries filled with fuel starting to show issues after like 20 minutes

frosty owl
#

In the end, the issue (in this example) would be solved by making 2x400 pipes or anything else that doesn't require a full 600 HOR pipe. Even 580 would probably be fine

oblique hollow
#

570 pipes are safe, can confirm

#

But we can agree: Mk 2 Pipes at max flow have loss. Its a bug

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

@twin jacinth did multiple tests with different manifold and even 3-4-3 balancers and other variations. Many had issues

frosty owl
#

How refineries unload OR the lenght of pipes connecting junctions. Haven't tried much about it yet, but having a bigger buffer (as in pipe's own storage) may mitigate or even avoid the issue

oblique hollow
#

Maybe Oil works fine because it has a different viscosity? Wasnt the goal here to also see if viscosity could be an influencing factor

#

Then again, this was a single test with single results performed by you.
The only way to really confirm is to gather many different results

frosty owl
#

I believe the problem is mostly with strong fluctuations in some parts of the pipe system that the 600 can't handle well. Could be viscosity, but I think having longer pipes and using as little full MK2 as possible (only when mergine 2 identical lines, for instance) can help. As long as you merge even numbers, the flow seems stable enough to not encounter issues
Took me a while to phrase this, but it might be an issue of excessive fluctuation of the flow. Or the derivative of the flow's function, if you will... Which can be quite spiky if you think about how flow can change fast, ESPECIALLY with mk2 pipes

oblique hollow
#

Would you call this an issue?

frosty owl
#

Yes, as when those spikes occurs, there are errors in the movement of the fluid, making the pipes missbehave

#

Parond my bad english, I'm not great with technical terms

oblique hollow
#

Alright. So, in the end, we can agree that there seems to be an issue

frosty owl
#

Absolutely, I'm just not convinced the issue lies (mostly) on viscosity. It may play a part, but I think the fluctuations are the biggest culprit

oblique hollow
#

It is nontheless part of the fluid math

#

and its brought about mostly through mk 2 pipes. No?

frosty owl
#

I can't completely exclude this CAN'T show with mk1, but we don't have any example of that so far, so I think it's fair to point the finger against mk2 only

oblique hollow
#

So far, whenever i saw someone report some inconsistent filling, somehow, mk 2 pipes were related, in most cases

topaz hedge
#

I dunno. I'm not sure this game does math for viscosity... I do have a plant that uses mk2 pipes and it does have issues, it could be the pipes but I think I just set it up wrong.

frosty owl
#

Oil pipes may be an exception

oblique hollow
#

Theres a reason why i asked Snutt if that old Update 3 Interview with Dylan was still available: in that stream, dylan talked alot about some of the pipe mechanics, a few of those were:

  • supposedly, fluids have viscosity (tested this months ago, seemed right, in some way)
  • the pipe calculations are pressure systems that work on a per-pipe-segment basis. Its a mix and match of different fluid simulation methods
  • Fluids transmit pressure when the pipeline is completely filled and they generate gravitational pressure
  • there are frictional losses (not yet confirmed. Maybe these problems are friction losses?)
dusky dust
#

@frosty owl I could've sworn I was seeing roughly the same thing on a mk1 @ 300, but I'll have to load up my game again later to confirm/deny

frosty owl
# oblique hollow But we can agree: Mk 2 Pipes at max flow have loss. Its a bug

Also: adding valves makes the issue worse in my example (tried on the HOR going into the 10x fuel refineries) as they all fluctuate rather then staying at 100%flowrate
Then again, balancing MAY delete this issue and still allow to merge up to 600/min safely. As I said, as long as you merge SIMILAR flows, the issue doesn't seem to show

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Yeah, I'll load it up tonight. My FICSMAS Village is done until the 11th anyway, so I have no excuse. :)

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

No clue

#

Maybe things got changed. But those were the claims

frosty owl
#

@jolly thunder If your highest fuel pipe is at height x, you put a junction on it and rise it up (even 1 meter), you end up with an overflow pipe. Everything at the level or below x will be filled first, any fluid that doesn't fit will go the the new pipe you made (highest fills up last)

#

Even if you bring said pipe back down again, it will still be filled AFTER the generators or whatever is below x

#

Clear enough?

jolly thunder
#

black pipe goes for another product, but the black pipe have to stay at this height or can I put it down to the floor?

loud dew
#

It can go down as long as it starts high

peak basalt
#

It just has to have a hump that is that high, can be lowered down afterwards

frosty owl
jolly thunder
#

ohh ok thank You very much for help, let's try 🙂

frosty owl
#

Always welcome :)
Good luck!

jolly thunder
#

one more what is a good number of speed connectors for automated wiring, super computer and nuke rods later?? 50, 100 per/min?? I'm doing some planing right now and I wandering how much

dusky dust
#

Depends how much of those you want to produce. :)

jolly thunder
#

worst thing now is, I don't know :/

frosty owl
#

"How much you want to produce"/min is a good number

jolly thunder
#

😄

#

Yes I know stupid question

frosty owl
# jolly thunder worst thing now is, I don't know :/

Just turn max 3/4 of your items in next tier items, so you don't run out of them but still make as much complex stuff as possible. Then expand where needed
Good enough as a plan?
Everyone have their own need after all

rustic talon
#

Should I make a super computer blueprint xD???

jolly thunder
#

I'm on 6 tier now

frosty owl
#

First go build your first damn refinery setup, dammit!

rustic talon
#

WHY!

frosty owl
#

You may end up doing schematics extremely complex to lay down due to practical inexperience xD

#

Integrating verticality is especially important in late game productions or big builds

#

Well, "convenient/cool" rather then important

rustic talon
#

I made a layout for it... just have never reached the tier to actually do it lol

frosty owl
#

Works

jolly thunder
#

ok I'm go to sleep, done for today, ty for help, good night everyone

frosty owl
frosty owl
#

Huh... Thinking more about it, this could be quite the challenge...
Trying to make a layout (more or less detailed at preference) just from looking at the map editor of a save
Multifloors would e quite hard unless each floor is the same, but any flat layout could be guessed precisely 🤔

wispy cradle
#

if i'm doing the residual rubber-plastic loop, do I get any improvement in the number of machines if I manage do bring the polymer resin from power factory? So I start the loop with 400 polymer resin.

frosty owl
wispy cradle
#

Im asking about the loop iteself, disregard the polymer -> rubber part

frosty owl
#

I don't get what you mean then... When I made that loop I separated the polymer resin from the fuel/rubber-plastic loop, so I could just process that independently

wispy cradle
#

In the wiki we have 300 oil -> 900 plastic.

#

If I add more 200 polymer from somewhere, does it decrease the number of refinaries in recycled plastic or recycled rubber?

peak basalt
#

No

old ember
#

In theory you could make less plastic and rubber, and reduce the amount of oil used, but topping up with the byproduct from the power. But the amount that loop makes is always 3x the amount of fuel it's making.

You might be able to get more output by injecting additional plastic/rubber from another source, but that's be tricky from a power plant because you're not always making the same amount of by product. And if you're using another node, you're better off just creating another loop like the one you posted.

#

I probably explained that badly. It's 2am here.

wispy cradle
#

My power plant is using overflow for HOR. the output is consistent.

old ember
# peak basalt No

The output from your power byproduct is determined by the amount of power you're using.

peak basalt
old ember
#

Wrong reply.

peak basalt
#

You can use the excess polyresi if you want, but you need an overflow into a sink just in case it backs up

old ember
peak basalt
#

Prolly need extra refineries tho

peak basalt
wispy cradle
#

Mase has answed for me

old ember
#

Okie doke then.

wispy cradle
#

hump->petro coke-> sink.

wispy cradle
# peak basalt No

back to main subject. I was just trying to figure out the best use of the polymer of my power plant. I guesss I should just produce plastic or rubber in place and send where I need it.

frosty owl
#

Stocking up on fabric may not be a bad idea either if you have the recipe for it

old ember
#

I use it to make fabric (alt) and canisters to make packaged fuel with the unused fuel from the generators, then sink the overflow.

#

Neither are needed at a reliable rate, but they're useful to always have around.

peak basalt
#

Ya, I would use it for plastic/rubber or maybe fabric. Then have that overflow to coke then sink as a backup

frosty owl
#

I mean, the conversion to plastic is so bad... I feel like it's a waste to set up plastic refineries with the polymer...
It goes all into fabric for me. Leads to more coupons in the end

peak basalt
#

My point was to try to use it somewhere, but have the sink as a backup

frosty owl
#

Good point

peak basalt
#

For both the solid and liquid

tender compass
#

@frosty owl was you asking for updates?

frosty owl
#

Looking good!

#

Everything seems in order and makes sense

tender compass
daring mesa
#

...

#

kdmuinqkm 3RR0R: T00 $IMP13

#

XD

tender compass
#

they're component pieces for diagram stencil objects

daring mesa
#

I don't get why making it simple should be done but ok

frosty owl
tender compass
#

Yes! :D

daring mesa
#

Then again I suppose many of us, me included, could use stencils since not everyone can draw digitally as well as you.

tender compass
#

@daring mesa I'm using Clarisworks 5.0
A program originally written for WIndows 95/98

daring mesa
#

Maybe a small label tab could be useful for those who cant recognize a machine by it's inputs and outputs

tender compass
#

There will be

daring mesa
#

Ah great

tender compass
#

that's what the lower empty space is for

daring mesa
#

10/10 then

frosty owl
tender compass
#

but several of these will be re-used with multiple objects, and so those details won't be evident until the full object is made

#

Also, @daring mesa diagrams should be somewhat simple - both for human readability, and for image loading purposes. The more detailed the images, the less images you can have in your diagram before it starts to crawl

#

I wonder if I can stencil the lines

frosty owl
tender compass
#

having diagram lines that look like conveyors and pipes would be cool

frosty owl
#

Quite

dusky dust
#

Mmf, so I was thinking that I was maybe just imagining things, re: having pipe manifold issues even on a mk1/300 pipe, but now at around the 40min mark, I'm starting to see two of the refineries in here dip a bit

#

At ~40 at their low point now, we'll see if they recover.

vast maple
#

is their a website where i can see the most efficient and compact designs?

dusky dust
frosty owl
#

Just ask me, I got them all
Jokes aside, the wiki have a pretty good archive and Cloak seem to be working in many more examples

#

@vast maple

dusky dust
vast maple
#

i only realy need teir 4 designs

dusky dust
#

So long as they recover before they hit 0 that may not be problematic, of course

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Last two, actually

#

They were super solid for nearly 40min, though. Immediately hopped back up to 50 after producing

#

Input pipe continues to just read a solid 300

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Yeah, that's been my experience too - I wasn't optimistic. :)

#

Into the upper 20s now. :D

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

I agree with you re: always. :)

#

I should go check the numbers on my other fluid-using bits in here -- as I say, I'm pretty sure I'm maxing out some other pipes in here and I never saw this issue with them.

frosty owl
#

My last message was to point out that if you have issues in an oil manifold, it's probably not the game's fault 🤔

dusky dust
#

Heh, yeah, I'm with you on that, really.

frosty owl
#

Manifold from refineries' output is more problematic

vast maple
#

@frosty owl can you share a efficient coal design?

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

View from the top -- the oil is coming from belowground, but there's a pump right after the extractor and another pump right there, even though I don't actually need either

📎 screenshot-2020-12-07-21_44_53.png
frosty owl
vast maple
#

coal meaning a layout for coal gens that works at 100% efficiency

dusky dust
#

(Behind that, I'd prepped a split mk2 pipe which was intending to be my next test, if this mk1 actually worked)

#

Still hanging on, but into the mid teens now. Will be hitting sub-100% soon enough

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

I could share my save; maybe I am running into something relating to FPS + factory ticks?

tender compass
#

I was thinking about some way to integrate color into the stencils, to indicate the type of fluid or material.

dusky dust
#

If you've got a more capable system than mine, perhaps that's why you'd found mk1/300s to be solid

#

(You'd have to promise not to laugh at my amateurish builds though. :D

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

(I kid, laugh all you want.) ❤️

tender compass
#

Ryzen 1700, 16GBs DDR4 3200MHz, NVMe, 980 Ti - and pipes are often issues for me. @dusky dust - I had to complete re-do my water pipeworks when I upgraded them to mk2 :(

dusky dust
#

Down below 10 -- not much time now!

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

@tender compass Ryzen 2600, 32GB 2133MHz, still just HDDs (omg loser), GTX 1060 6GB, fwiw

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Aha, there we go. 55min in, and I've dipped below 100%

frosty owl
#

You all are just trying to shame my 8GB system...

tender compass
#

I'm using like 7GBs... and I have a whole lotta stuff open.

frosty owl
signal nimbus
#

No one's intentionally shaming an 8GB system. It's perfectly capable of running Chrome, that's an accomplishment.

frosty owl
#

I am so triggered....

signal nimbus
#

XD Of course, I jest.

tender compass
#

Pre-loading your pipes, buffers and machines the best you can before running your machines is best idea

dusky dust
#

@frosty owl Ish -- they were already running when I re-piped 'em, and they all immediately got up to (or stayed at) 50 when receiving the new pipes

tender compass
#

You can turn your machines on and underclock them down to like 10% until everything is full

dusky dust
#

As I say, they were all solidly at 50 for a good 40 minutes

frosty owl
tender compass
#

Edge is just Microsoft's molested and bastardized Chromium.

signal nimbus
#

Oof...

tender compass
#

Chrome is Goog's

#

best browser: SeaMonkey

#

Reminds me of Netscape Navigator fawns

frosty owl
tender compass
#

honestly, sounds like a pipe code issue

frosty owl
# signal nimbus Oof...

I mean, only happens on a specific website but still...
When I realized the bug I was like: Microsoft WTF

tender compass
#

@frosty owl you have any train stuff?

#

I forgot all about trains. Don't know what connectors they use LOL

frosty owl
signal nimbus
#

Ya know... I was gonna keep my computer at 16 GB for a while. But hearing that... and hearing that my buddy's comp I just made for him is eating up 11GB for Chrome...

dusky dust
#

@frosty owl Well it was only the little pipe from the junction to the refinery that needed to fill up

#

As I say, nearly all of them were already at 50

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

And they'd been connected to my previous oil source while I was filling them up

tender compass
#

looks like they might be under/over?
N N
O O
?

dusky dust
#

So at first, 1 of the 10 was getting the full new 300 while the other 9 were sharing the original 300

#

Then 2/8, 3/7, etc.

tender compass
#

You sure you have enough pressure?

#

toss a pump or two on there

dusky dust
#

Yes, I've already got 2, even though I shouldn't really need 'em

#

One right after the extractor, and one once I bring the pipe up to the same level as the refineries, just before the manifold

frosty owl
tender compass
#

ahh, great! Thank you Vencam

dusky dust
#

Ah, yeah, so for instance - like literally the next row over, I've got six refineries doing Wet Concrete, and that was solid

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

I have never had a problem with that dipping below 100% (its sink is currently sharing space with some other resources so they're not currently at 100%, but they were solid)

tender compass
#

this?

dusky dust
#

Yeah, and the next row after that, a bunch of pipe manifolds feeding Alumina Solution, those have also been super solid despite maxing out a mk2 pipe

tender compass
#

sure you have enough supply?

dusky dust
#

So these pipe manifolds are even working just fine like six foundations away from these dang HOR refineries

#

(though admittedly with fewer splits, since those are taking 100 each)

tender compass
#

HOR?

dusky dust
#

And possibly that's the key?

tender compass
#

tired, can't think what that stands for

dusky dust
#

Heavy Oil Residue

tender compass
#

ahhh thank you

dusky dust
#

np. :)

#

And yeah, supply is fine, btw.

frosty owl
tender compass
#

lol thanks

vast maple
#

whats the smallest i can make a reinforced plate factory?

frosty owl
# dusky dust And possibly that's the key?

I think that having small pipe segments between junctions and having many junctions can make the issue worse
Also, a good rule of thumb is to build the whole pipeline with biggest segments possible THEN add the junctions

tender compass
#

craft bench

#

@dusky dust yeah, build your pipes as long as possible. Use the R key to change to vertical building if you want to get some better shapes

mild wind
#

but a big tower

tender compass
#

@vast maple seriously though, there's a guy on youtube that makes compact factory buildings. Pretty amazing how small he gets them.

mild wind
#

is it scalti?

tender compass
#

maaaybe

mild wind
#

he makes gud vids

frosty owl
mild wind
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDfOwvVytTg this is his rplate vid

YouTube
Scalti
100% EFFICIENT 20 Reinforced Iron Plates / Minute Factory! [SATISFA...

This is my guide to building a clean and modular factory that produces 20 reinforced iron plates per minute.

Input Requirements:
240 Iron Ore

Power Requirements:
At least 116 MW

What you'll need:
2x MK1(@100%) using pure nodes
8x Smelter
16x Constructor
4x Assembler

Check out my 100% efficient Rotor Factory Guide here:
https://youtu.be/fHUA...

▶ Play video
dusky dust
#

@frosty owl Yeah, that's what I've been doing, re: placing pipe first, adding junctions second

vast maple
tender compass
#

yes, that guy!

#

also, my dog is telling me it's bed time.

#

so, see ya'll later :)

mild wind
#

see ya

frosty owl
vast maple
#

damn

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

waves

frosty owl
dusky dust
#

Well, 100 minutes on a setup like this, instead of doing a pure manifold, and things are still peachy

📎 notmanifold.png
#

Though I have noticed that I've now got two refineries whose refill times seem to be getting a bit longer

#

Most of the machines just zip right back to 50 right away; these two sort of take their time getting there...

#

Wonder if that's just something that's gonna start compounding

#

Oho, yep

#

It's officially not hitting 50 on the upswing, now

sinful vale
#

i would have made 2 manifolds of 5, rather than 2 of 3 and 1 of 4, i don't like to look at uneven amounts of manifolds

dusky dust
#

Okay, yeah, all of the 4 nodes in the middle are lagging now

#

The sets of 3 at the ends are both fine.

#

Yeah, I dunno what I'd do "for real" if I were to do this; I'm just trying to figure out if I can actually count on a full pipe flow for these 300oil->(plastic|rubber) loops

#

This is with a plain ol' mk1 pipe

#

So mk2 isn't a factor here

#

Input pipe, as always, is showing a super-solid 300 flow, without ever wavering

#

But fluid's getting lost.

#

Took nearly 2 hours for the loss to start happening, as opposed to 40min while doing a "pure" manifold, but it's still there.

#

I don't suspect a 5 + 5 would fare any better, in the long run.

#

I think I'm gonna have to resign myself to just not utilizing the full capacity of these pipes, and run more pipes instead.

#

I wonder if there's, like, clock/timing glitches which happen around autosaves, etc.

#

Like each time you get a big ol' engine "freeze" like that, it introduces some small amount of error, and it just piles up.

#

(I suppose that's a very wild shot in the dark -- could be anything introducing tiny little errors which eventually pile up. Dunno why I necessarily singled out autosaves there.)

#

Oh, now that is interesting... I'd been assuming that a full game restart (if not a main-menu restart) would clear it up, and then they'd slowly get bad again, but reloading in seems to've kept the slow-refills on this thing.

frosty owl
#

I was just about to ask you to update the save you uploaded...
I'll check it out later :)
Maybe someone will sooner

dusky dust
#

I'm just gonna rejigger my stuff to not max out pipe flow, at this point it feels like that'll be less work. :)

wind spade
#

I don't think sharing saves is allowed here 😦

frosty owl
#

Delete and DM?

dusky dust
#

Oh, isn't it? Sorry -- would it be okay for me to put 'em up elsewhere and send a link?

#

Or i could just DM, yeah.

frosty owl
wind spade
#

yeah just DM anyone who asks for it

wind spade
#

I guess makes sense

dusky dust
#

Yeah, not a problem, won't do it again. (Makes sense as a rule, too)

wind spade
#

I mean I don't have a problem with you sharing it, just don't want you to get into trouble for it 🙂

remote zenith
#

so i have a question and I'm sure it's way below your plain of understanding, when energy comes out of a generator and there's extra power is that power being wasted?

wind spade
#

energy on conveyor?

frosty owl
#

Energy out of conveyors...?

remote zenith
#

🤦‍♂️ sorry

bleak coral
#

oh lol, no generators scale their consumption and production with usage

frosty owl
#

But no, power generators don't produce EXTRA power: you use half? Half fuel is consumed

wind spade
#

also no, everything is 100% power efficient, so whatever your question was, power never gets wasted. You can overclock to use more power than normal, which can be considered wasting, but energy and power never "dissapear"

remote zenith
#

ok so also why dose my power peak up and down

#

is that just natural

wind spade
#

I assume it's machines starting and stopping

frosty owl
#

Satisfactory server, the only place where people fight to help others 🤣

wind spade
#

when they have full output or empty input

bleak coral
#

that's something you can avoid later in the game with the right setup, but if you're really early I wouldn't worry about it

remote zenith
#

ok cool i really have no idea what I'm doing if you saw my joking perfect setup in screenshots

sinful vale
remote zenith
#

is there some way i could mitigate this?

bleak coral
#

early game? spam a bunch of biomass generators

remote zenith
#

however you spell it

wind spade
#

make sure your machines don't stop

sinful vale
remote zenith
#

i have them at max overclock

bleak coral
#

gives you more storage for biomass too, and it won't waste any fuel

wind spade
sinful vale
remote zenith
#

what for

bleak coral
#

overclocking causes machines power to go up more than their production

sinful vale
#

overclocking a building at 200% will always eat more power than making 2 buildings at 100%

bleak coral
#

so two machines at 100% use less energy than one machine at 200%

wind spade
#

building more machines is easier on power than overclocking them

remote zenith
#

so what your saing is, quanity not quality

sinful vale
bleak coral
#

yeah, you overclock machines to save on space when you have excess power

#

that's why it's good on limited buildings, cause you can't just build more of them

sinful vale
#

overclocking is more of a trade, you save space, but eat more power

remote zenith
#

right

bleak coral
#

but only nice for space saving on buildings you can just build more of and take up more space

sinful vale
#

unless there is no possible way for you to squeeze more buildings, try to avoid overclocking

remote zenith
#

ok noted

sinful vale
#

only exception being miners and oil extractors

remote zenith
#

also where would one find oil

sinful vale
#

simply 'cause unlike buildings, you can't pop more of them into existance

remote zenith
#

and how would one find oil

sinful vale
bleak coral
#

power generators overclocked aren't technically inefficient, but they just make the numbers not nice so you'll probably waste some fuel by overfeeding them to compensate for the decimals

remote zenith
#

alright lol

sinful vale
#

once that you get into oil tech, you will find it

#

try to avoid getting to ahead of yourself in your first playtrough

wind spade
#

yeah, take it easy, there's nothing rushing you

sinful vale
#

it ain't worth worrying too much about how to set up a megafactory to produce everything you may ever need if you are still playing the leaves collecting sim part of the game

remote zenith
#

"i want train" lol

sinful vale
remote zenith
#

ik ik

#

i don't even have a space elevator

sinful vale
#

only advice i can give you for now, is to start building in foundation grids as soon as they are unlocked

#

and to rush the tiers up to coal power asap(unless you enjoy playing the leaves collecting sim deal)

remote zenith
#

how can i fastpass that

#

what level is that

sinful vale
#

coal tier 3

remote zenith
#

ok cool

wind spade
#

tbh I'm not a big fan of building foundations everywhere. If you want to just have fun, you can easily put buildings on the ground and only use foundations when bridging a gap or something. They are nice, but definitely not required

remote zenith
#

are there coal outcrops or only the nodes

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

satisfactory indeed

sinful vale
frosty owl
#

O still have yet to see that straight power draw line after T2...

sinful vale
rustic talon
#

I don't remember if I posted this

#

Modular Framing though!

frosty owl
sinful vale
remote zenith
#

i have a miner hoked up to storage, that is split and sent to separate furnaces, one is crafted into rods, the other crafts steal plates. the rods turn into bolts and both meet at the combiner. in each side of this process copper and cement are stored.

#

that's what i have (and it sucks) lol

spiral geode
vast jungle
# rustic talon

Hmm... I am not sure I am getting this blueprint... what are the group of two assemblers doing (the one before the final assembler)?

A Modular Frame assembler only need 3 reinforced plates per minute, that's a single assembler on 80% output

#

Just for the record... the input rates of Modular Frame production are awful 😉

mighty relic
#

Which plastic recipe should i use for plastic?

rustic talon
#

It is designed to make more than average, it has 30 rods coming in and 10 reinforced iron plates, you can double the assembler rate

#

For the final assembler of course @vast jungle

vast jungle
#

Your picture has only a single final Assembler... is it overclocked?

rugged oar
#

Me who literally just started playing

#

😓

vast jungle
#

There are a lot of VERY good resources out there... don't worry about "efficiency" and "compact" until you get the basics build up.

In my case this was getting Coal from Tier 3 (no collecting leafs for power anymore ^^)

#

@rustic talon : What do you think about this rates?

Input:

  • 120 Iron Ore
    Output:
  • 2 Modular Frames
  • 2 Reinforced Plates
  • 10 Iron Plates
  • 20 Screws
  • 28 Iron Rods
#

4 Smelters, 8 Constructors (2Iron Plate, 4 Iron Rods, 2* Screws), 2 Assemblers (1* Reinforced Iron Plates, 1* Modular Frames)

#

all running at 100%

rustic talon
#

I have a build just like that, I forgot to add the over lock percent to the blueprint

#

I usually run a rotor production and reinforced iron plate production side by side

#

Then have modular framing desperate

#

Separate

vast jungle
#

I have a "10 Reinforced Plates/min" Line running... 120 Iron Ore comes in, 10 Reinforced Plates go out... all 100%

#

Rotors are still missing for me 😦

rustic talon
#

I have a blueprint where you can combine the two

frosty owl
#

10 reinf plates/min are good as a standalone, but you'll probably want just as much to make smart platings or other materials

vast jungle
rustic talon
#

Im designing a smart playing build tomorrow

#

Plating.

vast jungle
#

Next thing will be a "90 Iron Ore => 8 Rotors Line" I think

frosty owl
#

That or a hunt for hard drives

rustic talon
#

Should I design smaller blueprints for items individually?

#

I feel as if I should go really in depth with it

frosty owl
#

I think the most useful ones for beginners are the most basic arrays you can make, like in your reinforced plates example: all leading to 1/2 asseblers going at 100%

rustic talon
#

Indeed, but maybe I should make each of the smaller blueprints to then build up to those more advanced points

#

I’ll see if I can find a way to really amp production for those smaller parts

#

I might just make linear designs for the smaller ones.....

#

Also @vast jungle did you see the linear designs I made?

#

Is that what you meant by linear?

wind spade
vast jungle
rustic talon
#

Awesome, just wanted to check!

vast jungle
#

has anyone ever build a manifold that is feed on one side and delivers on the other side... by alternating splitters and mergers as tight as you can?

frosty owl
frosty owl
frosty owl
marsh gate
#

Hey. I'm trying to figure out the Satisfactory Tools website.
I want to produce Modular Frames at 10/min and I've been trying to go over this recipe, however I'm confused on the orange bars (like '7.00x Constructor').
What the devil does this mean?

📎 unknown.png
frail finch
#

it means build 7 constructors

#

for that 1 recipie

marsh gate
#

Alright, thank you for the clarification. Also that's an insane number of constructors for one resource. Just saying.
But.. hmm.

frail finch
#

and if it says 4.5 assembelers, you need 5 assembelers, with 1 underclocked to 50%

marsh gate
#

Got it, thank you.

frail finch
#

also, if it gives a whole number, but splits it into 2 areas with weird amounts, build an extra one and have 2 of them underclocked

marsh gate
#

What do you mean by that? Could you give me an example?

frail finch
#

like if it says 7 constructors, you might need to build 8, have 1 underclocked to 87% and the other to 13%, that way you can split the parts between the 2 in the next step in the correct amount

#

or other %s like that

marsh gate
#

Alright.

frail finch
#

let me go see if i can make an example

#

you would make smelters, underclock 1 to make 11 ingots per minute, then run it to the assembeler, then youd have 2 underclocked to produce the rest heading to the other 2 assembelers

sand garnet
#

Or just use a splitter and let it auto balance

#

No need for underclocking

vast jungle
#

Rotor Factory is done... now I need a GOOD plan for Modular Frames...

#

my last plan for a 100% factory had 4 by-products 😉

warm trench
warm trench
#

just did reinforced iron plates and rotors now im doing modular frames

vast jungle
warm trench
#

haha

frosty owl
#

Welcome to Screw Hell - First Level guys

old ember
#

Steel Rotors and Stitched Plate alts FTW!

#

One of the biggest level ups for me in this game was realising that I could completely remove screws from all my production lines.

#

"Screw this!" I thought.

sand garnet
#

screws arent as bad anymore as before U3

frosty owl
#

What changed in that regard?

glacial hemlock
#

Screw alternates are much more effective and for some items you can't get rid of screws at all.

wind spade
#

what items are there that you can't make without screws (except for screws?)

#

can't think of any

#

except for equipment stuff

#

everything else is possible to make without screws

old ember
#

Aye, computer, reinforced plate, rotor and heavy modular frame all have alts which don't use screws. I think they're all slightly less ore efficient but not by much, and I'll take that over heaving to deal with all the injection manifolds.

frosty pawn
#

i would rather use steel screws alt so that i deliver small amounts of steel beams to the manufacturers and drop a few constructors to turn the beams into screws

upbeat hinge
#

Makes me wonder, what is more CPU efficient 😛

#

More belts with screws and fewer production machines, or more production machines and fewer belts 😛

frosty pawn
#

5/min beams to 260/min screws means having less overall amount of items flowing through conveyors in your factory so probably this

old ember
#

Makes sense, particularly the ones which use wire I end up with a huge amount of constructors making all the wire. Particularly when I use the iron wire alt. Making steel screws would be way fewer machines.

upbeat hinge
#

When you scale the factory up though, you can't fit thousands of screws on a belt, so you'll need multiple belts running screws

#

So, makes me curious 😛

frosty pawn
#

i always look for things that convert low #/min into high #/min so that i can have less machines or more strategically placed machines

upbeat hinge
#

For smaller factories, I'd agree with minimizing machines

frosty pawn
#

1 belt can carry 780 steel beams/min and 5/min beams converts to 260/min screws so just split the beams a lot put constructors at the ends

#

thats a lot of screws resulting from 1 belt

old ember
#

Makes sense. For me I'd rather have more machines in my larger factories, and avoid having to have loads of belts of screws.

frosty pawn
#

lol 780 beams = 40560 screws

#

yeah you can just put a constructor next to any machine that wants screws

#

a mk1 belt carrying 60 beams is carrying enough to supply 3120 screws using the steel screws recipe

mild wind
old ember
#

Aye. Not massively keen on the way that looks, but it works from a logistics point of view.

frosty pawn
#

foundry with solid steel ingots recipe makes 60/min, exactly the right amount for steel beams (15/min) which makes enough for 3 constructors to make 780 screws. all of the machines in this chain are going at 100%

#

also the split to 3 constructors is perfect for 1 splitter. it's all 100%, its automatically load balanced, there is no waste, the input belt and final output saturate belt capacities. i like it all very much 🙂

old ember
#

That does sound smooth actaully.

frosty pawn
#

the problem then is what am i gonna do with exactly 780 screws/min lol

old ember
#

6 computer manufacturers?

frosty pawn
#

oh!
... yesss 😄

old ember
#

Or 2 HMF if you're using the flexible frame alt - needs rubber though, so I've never been keen on that one.

frosty pawn
#

see i would normally do crystal computers, so i didnt even see that as a possibility

old ember
#

I do caterium computer myself, but I've recently started a new save with a friend and we haven't unlocked that alt yet.

#

13 standard reinforced plate assemblers should do it too for that matter.

frosty pawn
#

if i'm going to the trouble of making screws from 2 alternate recipes i probably wouldnt want to use the basic reinforced plates recipe

old ember
#

Yeah, seems kinda redundant doesn't it.

frosty pawn
#

i usually do bolted iron plates because of the yield. saves time, space and power requirements

#

90 plates + 250 screws = 15 RIPs/min

old ember
#

Jeez, you really do love your screws don't you? 😆

mild wind
#

never seen someone that actually prefers to use screws....

frosty pawn
#

no i hate them because of the balance. i like the RIPs recipe that wants 250 screws but i also like the screws recipe that makes 260 screws

old ember
#

I mean, they're not just any screw. they're satisfactory screws.

Not much better than a satisfactory screw.

frosty pawn
#

i suppose if i make 1 assembler with the default RIPs recipe it will take 60/min screws so i could use up the 10/min extra from each of 6 bolted iron plates assemblers and all 7 of them would have the same 2 ingredients: screws and plates

#

it would require 570 plates

mild wind
#

thats... a lot

frosty pawn
#

yes a lot but it makes 95 RIPs/min

mild wind
#

daaaamn

frosty pawn
#

and if i am already using steel to make the screws, i can use stel to make the iron plates

old ember
#

It's also 29 constructors of plates.

frosty pawn
wind spade
old ember
# frosty pawn

Using plastic to make iron plates....? Na, sorry. I'm out. 😆

frosty pawn
#

i would need 63.33 plastic to feed 13 assemblers lol

wind spade
frosty pawn
#

yeah this idea is done. it's over.

old ember
wind spade
old ember
frosty pawn
#

there is a spot NW northern forest with quartz, iron, copper and not far from some oil

#

so that's why i like crystal computers

#

theres also a bit of caterium near there. the only problem really is the terrrain, so i build foundations over the iron nodes and northwards over the cliff. there is some limestone there to take excess steel and make reinforced beams. oh yes and some coal to make the steel.

old ember
#

My mate and I have our main base there. We've just paved from the top of the cliff with the quartz all the way over to the cliffs on the other side. job done.

high seal
frosty pawn
#

@high seal yes it would. I think this design was meant to fill in that use-case before smart splitters were added to the game.

high seal
#

I see, thx.

#

I'm big dumb.

#

A near-priority splitter built with Splitters, Mergers and Conveyor Lifts. This setup can be used >>>before<<< the Smart Splitter is unlocked.

frosty pawn
#

honestly though, before smart splitter is unlocked, there is no need to sink excess. just let it back up all the way to the mine and automatically shut it down to save power

#

and the awesome sink so early in the game is just wasteful IMO

#

unless youre building it specifically to farm coupons

sinful vale
#

i mean, ladders and double ramps are life, ladders and double ramps are love

mild wind
#

trueeee

frosty pawn
#

❤️ ladders

high seal
#

I needed Wall power sockets. and conveyor holes for walls. I like my stuff in factories

#

even if many prefer just a big flat space and put it full of machines.

frosty pawn
#

yeah i dont like big flat factories. so boring 😦

#

sometimes i make buildings around miners so theyre completely self-contained

high seal
#

First built it tho for the factory car. But i got to the truck faster.^^

glacial hemlock
#

@frosty pawn there are a lot of users editing that wiki, so redundancy may occur from time to time, and the case you have seen above is not the funniest yet.

#

I just edited that out. It seems funny to me too

vast jungle
# frosty pawn ❤️ ladders

Ladders are a great thing to get up... but horrible to get down...

I have stopped counting the number of times I killed myself trying to get down the ladder and just fell down.

frosty pawn
#

@vast jungle have you tried walking backwards onto the top of a ladder?

vast jungle
glacial hemlock
#

Ladders is supposed to reduce the chance of fall kills, lol I dunno how you die

frosty pawn
#

ok well, when you get the jetpack ladders can save your fuel on the way up and jetpack can save your life on the way down lol

glacial hemlock
#

Dismantle the ladder infront of you -> free fall -> see the next ladder -> press W to catch it -> repeat

#

you can skip up to 3 ladders at once and utilize the mass-deconstruction for even quicker fall.

#

if you don't wish to recover the material, just fall until the bottommost ladder then cling onto it before you touch the ground

frosty pawn
#

theres usually something i can land on between floors to break my fall and prevent taking damage

glacial hemlock
#

like, cybertrucks?

sinful vale
#

pretty sure cyber planes don't break the fall 50% of the time

glacial hemlock
#

I mean, press enter when you fall to the ground, but just before it, so that you enter the vehicle instead of dying

vast jungle
#

What would you say is the distance where you should drop Belts and go for Trucks? I want to move to "Basic Steel", but the only coal is 400m away (and the next one 600m) and the terrain is a bit steep ^^

wind spade
#

you should move to trains

#

also, there's really no distance that's "best". It all depends on whether you want to build long belts or whether you want to mess with unreliable trucks

vast jungle
#

I am just unlocking Tier 3... and I just got the worst harddrive EVER as the first harddrive

wind spade
#

400m is nothing really. You also don't have to build everything in one place

#

which do you think is worst?

vast jungle
#

Charcoal, Wet Concrete and Biocoal... WTF?

wind spade
#

wet concrete is decent

vast jungle
#

I don't need anything of this and two of them are Biomass stuff, which I dropped when I moved to coal power ^^

#

ok

#

(I have more concrete than I need at the moment, but at least it COULD be useful)

vast jungle
wind spade
mild wind
#

and pumps
and water extractor

wind spade
#

power is not an issue anyway

#

you can just spam more gens

dusky dust
#

Wet Concrete's a lovely recipe

#

Lots of gains for very few refineries

#

I'm looking at you, Pure Copper Ingots.

mild wind
#

wet concrete isnt that good as a first hard drive though....

#

casted screw is probably the best first hard drive

wind spade
#

reinforced iron plates

#

I mean stitched

mild wind
#

is stiched any good without iron wire though?

sinful vale
sinful vale
wind spade
#

well trains cost power, but they are pretty good

mild wind
wind spade
#

but there's no exact value at which they are better

mild wind
#

i was always told 500 m is a good sort of cut off

#

around there you can pick but really any further trains are bettre

dusky dust
#

In the end, there's plenty of personal preference which goes into it

mild wind
#

its just effort tbh

#

belts need a lot more clicks esp for both ways

dusky dust
#

I think you probably hear 500m just because before that point, all the extra effort+logistics which go into maintaining throughput on a train line just isn't quite worth the effort

sinful vale
dusky dust
#

Rather than "at 500m, trains are better"

#

It's just that they become less attractive once you're <500m

#

Personally I tend to belt out to ~1km or so

#

Once you've got a decent alclad line up, mk5 belts might as well be free. :)

vast jungle
#

okay... I will get my 40 coal back to base with a belt... thank you

elfin magnet
#

how many reinforced iron plates do you guys manufacture per minute?

mild wind
#

20 but its not nearly enough

elfin magnet
#

Just wondering, since i always built my factories in a whole other style

#

what would you prefer it to be?

sinful vale
frosty owl
cedar tapir
#

i cant even get my factory running atm just started using coal and everything had died xD ..... before that tho i was getting about 14

elfin magnet
#

the odd thing is, i want to make my factory run at 100% efficiency without overclocking but i'm starting to realise that it's unavoidable

frosty owl
#

Undercloking is pretty unavoidable after tier 1

#

IF you want to have 100% efficiency, that is

cedar tapir
elfin magnet
#

like overclocking but with less instead of more

#

or so i've heard

bleak coral
#

it's more power efficient, overclocking just allows you to build less machines at the cost of extra power

elfin magnet
#

In Russia building underclocks you!

bleak coral
#

underclocking is so you can match input/outputs

#

or save energy by building more machines, but that's not as commonly used

elfin magnet
#

Less powa babeh=Less Frustrations

frosty owl
bleak coral
#

I also use underclocking to make stuff more symetrical, like if I need 6.7 machines and I want to do two lines I'd do 6 machines at 100% and 2 at 35% instead of 6 at 100% and 1 at 70%

elfin magnet
#

In South Africa, they steal the money for the clock

#

In America the clock eats you.

mild wind
vast jungle
#

First steel pipes... Miner Mark 2, I am coming!

elfin magnet
#

Ok in all seriousness, what will be the best:
Smelt ore first then distribute or distribute then smelt? How do you guys build that part?

elfin magnet
frosty owl
#

I usually transport the processed items as they are less/min. But there are exceptions (like quickwire or screws)

sinful vale
#

unless you plan on using pure recipes(thous making more ingots than ore) it's better to process stuff on site and ship the products

elfin magnet
#

Where did you set up your factory? I'm doing a 2nd overhaul of my factory and i want to build it as good as i can.

frosty owl
#

I build close to resources then in the middle of all that

#

But I also choose those spots carefully in advance...
So for a ovrhaul... Northern forest? Has the most abundance

elfin magnet
#

So it's more efficient to build small factories, other than building one mega factory?

dusky dust
#

That's the usual advice, yeah

#

Feel free to ignore it if you like, of course -- I continue to go against the grain for a lot of stuff. :)

#

Though it helps to know that you're the one causing your own pain in circumstances like that.

sinful vale
elfin magnet
#

Sheesh, the amount of change this game has received XD
The first test weekend was WAY simpler, but this is WAY more enjoyable tbh

frosty owl
elfin magnet
#

Problem is, i wanted to challenge myself and now i'm in the dessert... XD

sinful vale
#

doing a megafactory tends to start more from the pride of looking at it knowing that it does everything rather than pure efficiency

vast jungle
#

fastest way down in the game 😉

frosty owl
sinful vale
elfin magnet
#

Well, guess i'll go destroy my megafactory dream then...

sinful vale
#

(or at least that is what someone that has no sense for aesthetics tell himself)

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

seems about right

frosty owl
#

It just sounds terrible worded like that :(

elfin magnet
#

Do you guys have any ideas for storage you prefer?

#

I know the: Storage first, factories second

sinful vale
vast jungle
sinful vale
elfin magnet
#

Approximately how large did you make the base of it?

vast jungle
#

if it gets too much for a linear corridor on both sides, a cross might be an options to decrease running distances

sinful vale
vast jungle
#

great moment when you discover that your mark-2 miner is useless because you have no mark-3 belt 😉

sinful vale
#

at least it's set for the future

elfin magnet
#

Ok that's it i'm creating a new world..

#

so many poor decisions...

wispy cradle
#

@elfin magnet 1 industrial storage / item is enough. just concrete needs 2

sinful vale
elfin magnet
#

yeap, concrete needs more than that, 10 will most likely be almost enough XD

wispy cradle
#

while you build, it refills.

elfin magnet
#

If you don't need 10 industrial storages, you're not building fast enough...

wispy cradle
#

I disagree.

elfin magnet
#

I'm just messing around, 3 would be my maximum even though i would probably never even reach close to that capacity's necessity

sinful vale
#

for concrete: whenever you find a spare limestone node, make a small concrete line, that way you have concrete handy pretty much wherever you go

wispy cradle
#

I do a concrete output station at my storage. whenever I need, I create a train just to pick it and bring to me to nearest station, or temporary station, while keep building.

cunning horizon
#

im currently in the process of building out my storage facility, but once it’s done my plan is to keep a train station beside it so that i can pack a train manually with whatever i need and take off

#

automating that is harder without better tools, it would be nice to be able to tell a train to go back to my main base and bring me 2 stacks of computers

hot ginkgo
peak basalt
#

Just have a train with a car for each item. 1 engine on the front, and as many engines as needed on the back.

#

Thats what I do

hot ginkgo
#

Realistically it wouldn't be crazy huge. Some work setting up. But definitely worth it in the long run.

#

Need more computers? Just call the train in.

cunning horizon
#

but the best you can get there is an individual station per part

#

i guess one freight platform per part but that’ll require some coordination

hot ginkgo
#

More basic components like beams, pipes, quickwire, concrete and stuff.

cunning horizon
#

yeah for sure that stuff can work here

wheat saddle
#

So how many smelters does what I need if I have three pure Mark 3 miners giving 480 resources per minor a minute

cunning horizon
#

is there a mod for circuitry logic? i’d love to be able to build a system that could potentially load a train with a specific number of resources remotely

hot ginkgo
#

There is. Ficsit networks.

hot ginkgo
#

480*3=1440

#

1440/30=48

wheat saddle
#

dam

#

well its not all iron doe

#

imma have some as foundry

hot ginkgo
#

Alright. Then find out what the production and consumption rates are and do the math.

#

If you're in game press X to bring up the codex.

wheat saddle
#

codex?

#

I only need 24 for smelters

#

but how do I split 1440 in half?

hot ginkgo
#

The codex is a list of all items you have unlocked.

#

Easiest way is to take 2 of your 480 belts and manifold them into whatever machines you want. Then take the 3rd belt and split it directly in half. Leading to more of whatever you want to make.

#

It really depends on how much of what you're making.

I highly suggest using one of the production planners listed in the pins.

wispy cradle
vast maple
#

idk if im giving the right amount of info but i need 4 coal per 8 seconds, how much coal do i need in a minute

sinful vale
#

30?

#

why do you need exactly 30 coal?

mild wind
#

60/8 x 4

sinful vale
mild wind
#

fair point

vast maple
#

dude idfk what im doing when it comes to coal gens, im trying to make them 100% efficient in the since that my coal mine coal gens and my water gens never turn off.

#

im to young to be playing this game lol

sinful vale
#

coal gens is simple

mild wind
#

im trying to find the image that i learned from gimme a minute

sinful vale
#

it's a mater of repeating 3 water extractors, 8 coal gens and 120 coal per min set ups, and repeating them as many times as you can/want

vast maple
#

how do i use the splitters so that its all equal?

#

and no backflow

mild wind
#

ok so

sinful vale
#

a set up like this should work

vast maple
#

thanks

sinful vale
#

make the coal belt enter form one side, and have a splitter into each gen

mild wind
vast maple
#

yeah i dont want backup

mild wind
#

mmm

sinful vale
# vast maple thanks

only thing that you have to do when working with coal gens is making sure you don't merge the 3 water extractors outputs before you fed at least 2 gens

mild wind
#

manifolds are way easier than load balancing

vast maple
#

i was also thinking of just splitting the coal into half for gens and other for steel

mild wind
#

you can try to load balace but for coal gens manifolding is easier and just kinda better fro that specifically

sinful vale
# vast maple yeah i dont want backup

by the nature of power gens, it will fill up, they will never be running at 100% consumption, just set things up for a situation where they will be working at 100%, not much else you can do

#

if you try to cut corners there, chances are that it will backfire 10 times harder later down the line

vast maple
#

doesn't that fuck up my power graph tho

mild wind
#

no

#

at least it shouldnt

vast maple
#

ok cus im doing a chalange where i keep it straight

sinful vale
#

if it flows, it's 'cause the consumption is flowing

vast maple
#

im talking about power consumption, im doing a chalange where this vv is going to stay like this through out the playthrough. #screenshots message

signal nimbus
#

Won't happen. As your use increases, your extractors work harder and your miners spin up more often.

hot ginkgo
#

Don't use trains ever.

sinful vale
vast maple
signal nimbus
#

Best you can do is set up a second power plant specifically to power your miners and extractors for your power plant, and accept that that one won't be flat.

vast maple
#

thats what i was thinking!

#

thanks for the help all

hot ginkgo
#

Or just underclock your miners and extractors to meet the demand of whatever that specific one is supplying.

vast maple
#

i hate how it doesnt tell you how much coal the intake needs like the constructors and smelters

hot ginkgo
#

Well they throttle resource usage based on demand.

empty hemlock
#

just... look at the machine?

hot ginkgo
#

15 for coal and 45 for water is base usage with no overclock.

I see what was meant earlier. The machines feeding the generators will fluctuate.

vast maple
#

sorry im at this weird stage in my life where i cant seem to construct a proper sentence

hot ginkgo
#

I've been at that stage for all 30 years of my life.

vast maple
#

What do you think the age range for this game is?

hot ginkgo
#

I mean, my 4.5 year old loves playing it for the trains and "evil pigs"

#

And building simple stuff.

#

But if say if you're capable of simple math, you can play it.

sinful vale
#

i would say from "being able to understand that line has to go from blue to orange" to "i don't feel so good mr stark" situation

mild wind
wheat saddle
#

@river hamlet
#4179

#

neener neener

frosty owl
# vast maple thats what i was thinking!

If you're still on coal, you can set up an overflow system to deal with the excess coal. Later on you can deal with water too, but for now you can only get coal mkners to 100%, not the water extractors (unless you clock them accordingly each time your power draw changes to keep the excess at a minimum and store that, if you keep the excess under 5/min it'd be great)

#

Nice challenge btw!

wispy cradle
#

@vast maple , you can use trains, but in other network to keep your challenge. You can connect trains and the machines you need in your power plant. And the output of power plant to the main grid.

vast maple
#

im tier 4 rn but in the future i will

frosty owl
#

Fuel is much harder to draw balance then coal...

vast maple
#

what does that mean

#

ive never got past tier 4

frosty owl
#

By "draw balancing" I mean making sure that all the machines involved in the power production go at 100%, thus preserving your flat power draw

vast maple
#

ok will note for the future

#

also what are the big gray creatures called?

frosty owl
#

Beans... Tick-whale-creature... Many names really ^^

vast maple
#

BEANS!!!

wheat saddle
#

how many refiners do I need if my iron runs at 720ppm

vast maple
#

im calling them that

wheat saddle
#

ping or dm me with anser brbafk

vast maple
#

like 720 opm?

#

you could over clock 12 to 200% @wheat saddle

#

if thats what you mean

hot ginkgo
#

I wouldnt overclock that much. Power increase isn't linear.

vast maple
#

oh than run 24 normal

frosty owl
hot ginkgo
#

@vast maple just as an example, 250% overclock uses around 430% more power.

vast maple
#

wow

#

i mean i would sacrifice power for space

hot ginkgo
#

Once you have enough overhead i agree to an extent.

vast maple
#

but it really comes down to their problems

wheat saddle
#

For making steel

#

Wait that's not what I got, I got 720/3=240

sinful vale
#

it has to be 30, not 3

wheat saddle
#

Why 30

sinful vale
#

it's 24 smelters

wheat saddle
#

It's not a smelter

#

ITS A FOuNDRY

frosty owl
sinful vale
wheat saddle
#

How'd u get 45?