#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 488 of 1

twin jacinth
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this 1/3 makes my brain not responding 😄

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so 66% clockspeed is under the desired value, while 67% is above

oblique hollow
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Ok so my message got eaten by Discord it seems

twin jacinth
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if I dont have an other chice I will kick the system in with that one machine with 67% at each stage, but I still hope, I can outsmart the stupid infinite 0,666666666

dull bolt
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67% should be close enough.

oblique hollow
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Tbh better to overproduce than underproduce

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gonna need to deal with any excess though

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its better if you underclock them so they all are at 100% efficiency and then deal with any extra

twin jacinth
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thats for sure BUT the risk is then the system is shutting down

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Solid excess can be sinked I guess

oblique hollow
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I know i say this very easily and often but...... Packag your excess and sink it or pipe it to an external "Excess Management Site"

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and accumulate it in buffers for use in other refineries

twin jacinth
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"put the problem over there" 😄

oblique hollow
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Exactly

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then you can have exactly One machine in On and Off- Mode instead of multiple ones

twin jacinth
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anyway. If I calculated correctly, escess will be solid and not fluid, so it the easier variation

oblique hollow
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well, thats good then

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Is it something useful? then store it in a container and sink the overflow

twin jacinth
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Im so scared. It took a LOT of time to build this shit and Im always unlucky with fluids, especially if there is some kind of loopback

oblique hollow
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are your pipes properly connected this time? xd

twin jacinth
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This was evil 😄

oblique hollow
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Hey, you and I both know how much trouble that issue gave you last time

exotic ledge
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Simple question:
If I feed a Cable constructor 30 wire per minute, but it wants 60 wire per minute, I am aware I can underclock it to save power.

Is there a difference in product output (in this case, Cable) from a constructor at 100% but only receiving 50%?

Another way to ask the same question: Other than saving power, what else does underclocking do?

oblique hollow
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It has slightly bigger startup times, and it still consumes the same power it needs at 100%, just more irregularily, thus increasing the risk of outages

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Underclocking Saves you those extra few seconds

exotic ledge
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So numerical output won't change but it'll be more evenly distributed among the belts?

oblique hollow
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At a slower clock speed your machine of course produces more slowly, which is why you need more then

exotic ledge
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Right but if it only recieves 50% input then it'll produce 50% at most

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So whether I underclock or not, I'm only getting 50% from this constructor

oblique hollow
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Whenever a machine receives insufficient items, it enters a "Standby Mode", which increases the time until it produces again once it has enough items

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You can actually test this stuff ingame you know:
Build 2 Constructors, one at 100%, one at 50%

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And then count the output inside 2 seperate containers after like 5 minutes or so

exotic ledge
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Good point. I usually tend to just ask first incase someone knows the answer already

old ember
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Do refineries stop outputting fluid in their reservoir when they are in standby?

oblique hollow
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Nope

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Otherwise you wouldnt be able to empty them when their output is full either

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Actually, its more an "Idle" mode

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since Standby is triggered by the red switch

old ember
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So my aluminium plant is driving me mad. I have the alumina solution machines in manifolds, the max output form which should be 595m3/min. However, some of the machines keep backing up their reservoir and going into idle. until the flow in the manifold drops enough.

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But this means that the amount of fluid reaching the second stage isn't consistent.

twin jacinth
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Left red refinery is on 96% and drinks only the loopback water of the uper 2 refineries. right red refinery is on 80%. Everything else is on 100%

sinful vale
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i think that you are overthinking this, if you only have enough HOR to trigger 6+2/3 machines, the extra 1/3 of a percent will never kick in unless it magically makes more HOR to trigger it

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your line wouldn't be able to make the decimals on the first place

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only thing that will happen is that periodically, the 7th machine will turn off due to having that decimal of underfeeding

twin jacinth
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Im definitely an overthinker type guy, so thats very correct 😄

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as I calculated, there will be overfeeding but with solid material which can be sinked, so I will see

old ember
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I assumed this was because when the refineries went into standby they stopped outputting their reservoirs, then take a few seconds to come back on again.

oblique hollow
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is the electrode circuit board alt any good?

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seems way too much effort for what its worth

old ember
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Very oil heavy.

sinful vale
oblique hollow
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I guess it would be ok if i had too much oil. But i dont

old ember
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I guess it might be nice to set up a circuit board factory on an impure oil node, then just train the circuit boards back. Neat and tidy, but wasteful.

twin jacinth
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@sinful vale Prolly Im wrong but the overfeeding will be at the packaged water input. To much water is coming for the amount of HOR.

sinful vale
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yeah, there will be that decimal of packaged water overflow, but if it has to wait for the HOR residue, it will be meaningless, at most a water packager and a water extractor might occasionally turn off for a few secs, but the line will be ok

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i guess you are technically eating a bit more power than the theoretical perfect amount, but it would be the amount needed to make 0,2 packaged water per min, which is basically negligible

twin jacinth
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yeah Im not afraid of this part of the story, Im rather concerned about the fact, that the canisters for the first water packager stage come from the 2nd water packager stage. So this little problem affects the whole system, and whats scary is that I dont know how 😄

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And I just realized, that I also have to inject manually a lot of empty canisters to make this shit even start, which I also have to remove somehow afterwards I guess

sinful vale
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i still don't see how this has any draw back, only scenario where this could potentially have any complication is if the water is coming out of an aluminum plant, in which 'case rather than a water extractor occasionally turning off, it would be the aluminum line

twin jacinth
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Wish I stayed at the simple crude oil-> fuel combo which needed only a few machines 😄

sinful vale
twin jacinth
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yep, thats what Im planinng to do

sinful vale
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once that you throw enough canisters in the system, they will just cycle there till the end of time

twin jacinth
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yup, ok, so I have to also build an injector storage

sinful vale
twin jacinth
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absolutely 😄

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once you build it, its cool and all.

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how many empty canister do I have to inject?

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nvm, I will play with it 🙂

old ember
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Depends on how you have it set up. I start with 200 per packager, then see if any of them are running low on canisters.

twin jacinth
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hmmm, so that would be 5400. Hmm

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1 industrial container is not even enough for that

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this is gonna be exciting

old ember
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Hah, yeah. Have fun!

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Actually, you have 27 packagers?

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I assume for 600 crude -> 800 Heavy Oil Residue - > 1200 Fuel?

twin jacinth
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yes, 27. For the moment, Im just doing the 600 oil -> 1600 fuel conversion

old ember
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Sorry, yeah. 1600 fuel.

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All those packagers are fed with a single belt?

twin jacinth
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jesus christ you just caused a heart attack

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I thought I messed up the math and so the building

old ember
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Sorry man!

twin jacinth
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no, basically everywhere Im forced to split to 3, so 600+600+400

old ember
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Then you're good, cos you'll need to have 3 injection points.

twin jacinth
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I kept this split even on the solid part lanes as well eben though, there could be 780, but it was easier to stick with 600

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hmmm

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thats a lot of injector canisters then

old ember
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Well, your 600+600+400 would be 10+10+7 packagers, so 2,000 + 2,000 + 1,400 canisters.

twin jacinth
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yup. ah so alltogether 3 inject points, with amounts of 2k 2k 1,4k

old ember
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Yup

twin jacinth
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I see I see. Im just setting up an offline standalone canister factory quickly

old ember
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Probably a few more, I have an oil plant split into lanes of 6.5 packagers per lane, and each of those gets 1800 to keep them happy.

old ember
twin jacinth
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yeah its soo god when everythiing is automated. I have even supercomps and turbomotors

old ember
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That's my current build. Once factory that makes a little bit of absolutely everything. I'm still plumbing the resources into it for the turbo motors though.

wind spade
twin jacinth
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too late 🙂

sinful vale
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in general, i work with 250 per packager when dealing with diluted fuel

frosty owl
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Also, the number of canisters needed depends on the number of packagers AND the length of the belts connecting them (e.g.: shorter belts means less canisters to inject)

sinful vale
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in general, i tend to consider that maybe 50ish canister will be on conveyors at all times, so having around 60-70 on each step seems enough to prevent anything to go wrong

old ember
obsidian basin
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how would the production plan for the max turbo engine look like when power also needs to be factored inn ?

pulsar iron
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the max production is ez

wind spade
bleak coral
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Agreed, cause 100 canisters per 1 : 1 : 1 set should suffice, vs the like 400+ you need per set on a manifold setup to make sure each manifold is full and working

old ember
wind spade
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I guess that's true

twin jacinth
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OMFG I messed up my stupid diluted system

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nope, no no no no, its fine. heart attack

sinful vale
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panic atacks aren't rare when working with lines of more then 3 steps

twin jacinth
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I have to say, its mesmerizing

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how the lots of stuff are going all over the place

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So at the manifold I used smart splitters with overflow, so each machine gets stuff only if the previous one is full. I donno why I did it this way, I have never done this before, I just used normal splitters. Is there any downside of usnig smart splitters for this purpose?

wind spade
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don't think the difference would be any relevant time

abstract copper
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Takes a lot longer for the factory to produce at full speed

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And extra cost of smart splitters and setup time

wind spade
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@abstract copper he's talking about manifold with smart splitters vs manifold without smart splitters

abstract copper
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Right where machines farther down the line only get overflow right? Instead of getting 50%?

twin jacinth
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So with smart splitters, machine input buffer is like 100-100-100-100-29, etc. With normal spliiters, its something like 100-100-85-40-20-10.. etc. I mean this is just a snapshot example

abstract copper
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Or is there a fancy piece of the design I'm missing?

twin jacinth
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jsut the normal smart-overflow

wind spade
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normal splitter vs smart splitter in manifold has no effect on the time it takes to start working at 100%

abstract copper
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Wouldn't it be more like 100 100 29 0 0?

twin jacinth
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yes. more accurate example

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actually I donno, the math between distribution

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so it was jsut a wild guiess from me

abstract copper
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So the startup time becomes linear instead of a curve

wind spade
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use whichever splitters you want, it won't make any difference

twin jacinth
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Ho do I know if I injected enough empty canisters? After the recommendations, I went for 250 canister / packager rate

abstract copper
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You'll reach 90% faster with simple splitters but you'll reach 100% at the same time either way

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I think....

wind spade
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you'll reach 100% with same time and anything in between doesn't matter, because in the end you'll produce the same amount of resources over given time

twin jacinth
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hmm I think I know, and it seems to be not enough I guess. Initial packagers are starving at the end of the manifold line

abstract copper
wind spade
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but you shouldn't ever be in a situation where you need more power than you can produce

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always overbuild power 🙂

fierce ruin
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what does the ficmas gift do?

twin jacinth
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smart vs normal splitter: A little bit easier to monitor the ramping up part. I mean you can see exactly, where you are with stuff by checking that exact machine, where buffer is not yet full

bleak coral
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just did some math and figured out depending on the relative parts per minute of the last and 2nd last machines a smart splitter can help, hurt, or do nothing to the warmup time.

For cases where the last machine has less 1/3rd the ppm of the 2nd last machine, the excess ppm going to the last machine after a 50/50 split would be greater than the excess ppm going to the 2nd last machine in an overflow situation. A smart splitter would hurt the warmup time.

For cases where the last machine has more than 1/3rd the ppm of the 2nd last machine the opposite occurs. In this case a smart splitter would help the warmup time.

For cases where the last machine has exactly 1/3rd the ppm of the 2nd last machine the excess ppm is the same in either scenario. A smart splitter wouldn't change the warmup time.

For cases where the the last two machines have equal ppm the warmup time is done when the 3rd last machine is filled, so a smart splitter hurts the warmup time here since it makes the 2nd last machine fill up when it doesn't need to.

I don't think any of the other smart splitters are doing anything to help or hurt the warmup time since the splits don't make the ppm go under what the machine needs, like can happen with the last split.

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And also both machines at the earlier splits need to be filled up, as opposed to only 1 or neither of the last two machines.

sand garnet
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I think having smart splitters will slow the windup time, wont it?

oblique hollow
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Big word, me no like, show graph plz

wind spade
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@sand garnet for normal cases - no, it doesn't do anything about windup time

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just the last splitter (that splits to last two machines) should be normal always, otherwise you hurt the windup time a bit

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(assuming closed manifold)

bleak coral
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it can, but it can also help, depends on the relative ppm of the last two machines

sand garnet
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@wind spade wouldnt it cause less machines to run early on?

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because instead of dividing stuff and giving later machines also a small piece of the input, the internal buffers of the first machine etc will fill up entirely before shoving items to the next one

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so I'd assume the output of those machines takes longer to start

hot ginkgo
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Time for a project.

wind spade
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simple logic - manifold of X machines needs to fill X-2 machines with items. Since input is constant, the items can't dissapear anywhere

sand garnet
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lets assume a machine needs only 3 items to produce something

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if it doesnt get even 3 items ( because internal buffers fill up first ) it wont produce anything

wind spade
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you have constant amount of items that are "lost" in the buffers, but all other items get processed to final products

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if the amount of filled machines is the same for smart and normal, then the time isn't changed by changing splitters

bleak coral
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if the last two are the same clockspeed though, then smart splitters hurt the time by adding another machine that needs to be filled

sand garnet
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my brain hurts trying to comprehend lol

bleak coral
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and if one of the last machines needs to be filled because they're different clockspeeds, depending on the relative clockspeed a smart splitter could help or hurt the warmup time

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lets take an example, say the last two machines need a total of 40ppm

if it's split where one needs 31ppm and the other needs 9ppm a smart splitter would make the 31ppm machine fill up at a rate of 9ppm from all 40ppm, as opposed to a normal splitter which would split it to be 20ppm to each machine so the last one would fill up at a rate of 11ppm

if the split is 30ppm and 10ppm, both scenarios fill up one machine at a rate of 10ppm: 40 - 30 vs 20 - 10

if the split is 29ppm and 11ppm the smart splitter wins because it's now: 40 - 29 = 11 vs 20 - 11 = 9

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if both need 20ppm then neither machine actually needs to fill up, since a normal splitter would split the 40ppm equally, and the smart splitter would hurt since it makes the first machine fill up needlessly

bleak coral
oblique hollow
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Yezzzzz very gud

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Me like funney square paper with numberz

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Iz like art: little words, much meaning

bleak coral
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and if it's buzzy-zappy numbers in lots of squares, they make more numbers

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Honestly this is all just a fun exercise. I am one of the people that argues warmup time doesn't matter in 99% of cases. So, this information isn't that practical because once the warmup is done it doesn't matter which splitters you used.

sinful vale
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i mean, unless you are trying to manifold supercomputers, in which case they take ages to overflow, even thinking about this whole thing would take longer than just placing any splitter and waiting for it to fill

exotic ledge
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Good ratios for Iron Ore : Coal with no alts? Should I just look for numbers divisible by 45?

wind spade
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Depends on what you produce

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And you can always underclock, so it's usually not required to have any kind of specific ratio

exotic ledge
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Good point.

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thanks

fierce ruin
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everytime i try to join my friend it says connecting host then restarts the game after some time how do i fix it?

wind spade
frosty owl
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That moment when you're like: "ok, I with this I fitted all the machines I needed in this area. Now I just need to add copper and... Oh wait, that's another 200 refineryes... FU....."

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Pure copper needs double speed

topaz hedge
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So.. do mergers or splitters slow down belts? I have a manfold arrangement of 12 mfgs making computers and the total rubber required is exactly 480/min. (40 computers a min) 10 mfgs at 89% and two at 88%. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it's 480/min and was fed by 1 mk4 belt and they ran out of rubber?

night jay
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mk 4 is 480/min. How long have you given it for it to build up?

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And are you sure that the 480 is at the maxiimum 480/min, and maybe it's just short of it?

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manifolds need a little bit of time to level out, but eventually they should work if you are doing careful belting like this.

topaz hedge
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Plenty of time. I put a few in the row on standby to fill the end of row. I mean, it could need 480.01 or something silly like that

night jay
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Definitely could be. Running stuff at 88% andd uneven numbers like that tend to mess with how many are actually being made per minute, and how much is actually requiredd

topaz hedge
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Upgrading it to a mk5 belt fixed the issue, but kind of left me feeling more confused

night jay
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That's confusiing me as well lmao

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Check your mfgs and see what they are producing per minute, and if there are decimals, your requirement per minute is probably a bit above 480

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which is actually why making it a mk 5 belt is fixing it

topaz hedge
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Satisfactory tools reported it as 480/min too and I just said hey that's one belt. Never one belt again lol

night jay
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It's never just one belt

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I'm a bit confused why you are putting all of them at 89% and then two at 88%. Try and put as many as possible at 100%, and have that final mfg be put at a really low rate. Manifolds work perfectly for this kind of settup

topaz hedge
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It's probably a hair above, although it didn't take maybe 5 miuntes for those machines to run low. I'm definitely going to keep this in mind for my next factory.

night jay
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with that 88%, 89%, it'd actually be more effective to use a perfect split, rather than a manifold.

topaz hedge
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Well, I figured I'd use less power by making it even. It's not a straight manifold, it is, but it's center fed so it's 3 machines per manifold

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Idk how to explain it. I cut it in half and halfed it again

night jay
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Technically, it's not less power. by running one of them at 67% (I'm looking at the online calculator) you'd be using the same power, as well as making it effective for a manifold with the 480 rubber

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That 67% mfg will need a tiny bit more than 30 rubber per minute, whiich means that yes, your 480 line needs to be put on a mk5 belt to fill out the manifold

wind spade
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also for the belts, the game itself isn't really good at decimal precision, so you'll usually see like 1% off in your production lines

night jay
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Really? I've always thought it better to try and keep machines at 100%?

topaz hedge
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I suck at this game. I figured it would work out better, if they were all clocked down, but even so once they fill up, they should have evened out. BUT I can't test that now because they're already hooked up to make supercomputers

wind spade
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and lower FPS make belts transport less items than they should, so that may be an issue as well

topaz hedge
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They use exponentially less power when downclocked I know that

night jay
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You're automating super computers. You're doing better than a lot of people

topaz hedge
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My PC is pretty good, I doubt that's an issue

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Yeah, it's done now! Freaking month later and idk how many hours and head scratching.. I have 20 supercomputers a min falling into a sink lol

wind spade
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keeping machines at 100% and underclocking just last one is easier regarding time spent building, but uses slightly more power

topaz hedge
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But I'm asking because my next project is turbomotors.. and I don't want to repeat some of the issues I have

night jay
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I've always managed to overdo my power whenever I need moore of it, so power is never too much of an issue for me

topaz hedge
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I'm going to say have because there's a problem with quickwire, and plastic, that I bandaided by building a small factory to supliment it. 6700 quickwire and 1000 plastic a min ain't no cakewalk

wind spade
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(except when going from miners)

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basically never use a merger to make a max belt

topaz hedge
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Yeah, moving forward I think I'm going to try to only use belts up to like 75%

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Why not?

wind spade
wind spade
topaz hedge
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Honestly the map has an abundance of resources unless 157? Turbomotors a min

night jay
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^

topaz hedge
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But why should one not use a merger to max a belt?

wind spade
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it can still be difference between using a resource that's near and having to transport it from the other end of the map

topaz hedge
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This is true

wind spade
night jay
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Transporting stuff across the map isnt an issue because i build multiple factories that are closest possible to the resources they require. The transportation comes in by bringing the end products all back to one spot

topaz hedge
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I mean, to each their own.

wind spade
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sure, but for me the game is about building the most efficient setups, so I'll resort to whatever is best 😉

topaz hedge
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I'm doing multiplayer and we're trying to avoid trains and other things that can randomly kill a client

night jay
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im in a singleplayer so skytrains galore for me rn lmao

exotic ledge
topaz hedge
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That's another issue for my game though, it's become hilarious how the client can just be simply walking, not on a mk5 belt or nothing and and they just die

exotic ledge
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lol

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That sucks 😦

topaz hedge
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Yeah. The game ran great until we decided to build a supercomputer factory. Other bugs include connecting belts going opposite directions to each other. Really werid stuff

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So in light of all that, no trains for us ): I've learned quite a bit from my first giant factory, hopefully the next one won't kill multiplayer, and I can use some of the things I learned

abstract copper
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Trains aren't so killer, but the client still can't set them up or ride them.

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Trucks are a bigger cause of client crashes imo

topaz hedge
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We don't have those either! Lol. Just a hundred km of belts

exotic ledge
abstract copper
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Ah, didn't realize you could ride it if it was autopilot. You just can't drive it or edit its schedule (you can try but it doesn't save it)

gritty wadi
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Can anybody recommend a site that has clear visual plans for highly efficient factories?

wind spade
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check pins 🙂

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I'd recommend the first one, but it's mine, so I may be biased 😛

glacial hemlock
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Support greeny!

oblique hollow
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Support.greeny.dev (fixed xddd)

wind spade
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it's greeny.dev (and I don't have that website set up yet anyway xD)

sand garnet
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lazy dev confirmed

wind spade
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is there a non-lazy dev?

finite sonnet
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we're not lazy, it's called being efficient

hexed forum
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It's one of the best attributes for being a developer

night jay
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Is it like common knowledge that you can make computers without ever having to use oil? Cause this is like blowing my mind

sinful vale
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idk all the recipes in the game, but i'm confident that you can get all the milestones that require computers just by exploring crashes, but i don't think that is what you are referring

upbeat tide
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You mean the crystal computer alt?

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Yes, combined with silicone circuit boards you can make computers without oil. Its not the best alt tho imo. Thst crown goes to caterium computers.

night jay
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I'm currently bout to staart work on my Electronics Factory (AI Limiters, High-Speed Connectors, Crystal O's, Circuit Boards, Quickwire, and Computers) All in the area that's just a bit north of the Rocky Desert Starter area

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I've been able to get a lot of good numbers by just planning stuff out using only the materials that are nearby, which is a bit limited because I only have access to a single pure caterium node, which means 480 line needs to split to all of those resources.

topaz hedge
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pure caterium ignots with refineries is your friend. there's a pure node in the gold coast area as well, if that's avaiable.

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You not gonna try to go all out like I did and shoot for 20 supercomputers a minute right? lol

night jay
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24 AI p/m, 20 HSC p/m, 10 CO p/m, 30 CB p/m, 11.25 Computers p/m, and then whatever I have left over for quickwire

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That is for my own personal use of all those items

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My supercomputer will be somewhere else on the map, using the caterium computer recipes for sure for efficiency

topaz hedge
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I did my sc factory in dunes, one day I'll post screenshots.

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damn 10 crystal oscillators a min. without running any numbers, I'm assuming you did, you could probably get by with one pure node and a mk3 miner overclocked

night jay
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It was a pure node, mk2 overclocked

fresh elm
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20 sc/m isn't too bad

night jay
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Here I'll share all the links

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AI Limitier https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=NxpPsRuoBW3hAZGOhiyz
HSC https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=NxpPsRuoBW3hAZGOhiyz
CO https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=CxY4JScMQyeOzjzeYZ2m
CB https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=39BjOsz8uCY9zgtKafyE
Computers is just taking 32.5 CB p/m and 10 CO p/m (tool won't do it for me 😢 )

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

topaz hedge
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ah, yeah it's up to you, using refineries and pure caterium alt would let you go a little further, are you trying to avoid the use of oil?

night jay
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Yes (Rocky desert is just real far from oil)

fresh elm
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Um no it isn't

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It's super close to oil lol

topaz hedge
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sort of is.

night jay
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Im in the area north of it, and Im using all four of thsoe nodes for somethiing else

topaz hedge
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there's no oil in the biome itself.

fresh elm
#

Theres no bauxite either. But it isn't far.

#

Rocky deserts only real issue is the coal nodes for early power aren't super convenient because your mobility is not great yet by then

#

But even that isn't bad

topaz hedge
#

it looks like a very interesting, computers and hsc without oil.

#

I haven't built anything in rocky except for hub to have it far away from my large factories, my main base is on the gold cost, and my friends is in northern forest

fresh elm
#

I've never liked the northern forest starting area

#

Too cramped there

night jay
#

I started in Grasslands to create my basic medium factory for starting materials. I'm in the process of moving my HUB and central storage unit to the large lake north of the red bamboo forest

topaz hedge
#

it's not as big as you think. i think I built my turbofuel plant there. lol

night jay
#

I'm building it really hiigh in the sky, above the terrain surrounding it

#

It's just right above that lake

fresh elm
#

Ah. Skybases. :/

topaz hedge
night jay
#

yes

topaz hedge
#

I built my plant just above the water, there was plenty of room still for ~100 refineries or so

night jay
#

It's high in the sky because my traains are skytrains, in order to get around all the terrain and jjust let me build a completely straight bridge

topaz hedge
#

granted I squeezed them togeather pretty tight, it only uses a fraction of the area

#

I thought about doing underground trains. I still might

night jay
#

Underground?

topaz hedge
#

Yeah.

#

Lol. So if you clip a hypertube into a cliff, it shoots you through it.

night jay
#

ahhhh

#

I remember this from a certain video by a certain maniac

#

I thought it got patched

fresh elm
#

You've been able to clip through environment since day 1

topaz hedge
#

so you can build inside mountains or whatever. well there's an abyss in grasslands that's a pretty good starting point. I've thought about starting there and doing everything below the map right at the edge of the barrier and bring it up. probably won't ever do it

night jay
#

I'm too much of a sissy to even attempt that

topaz hedge
#

it's a chore. my bauxite for my goldcoast base comes down through the mountain.. it took a good minute to accomplish that.

#

the person I play with loves skybridges and skybases. I'm not really a fan. but I understand the appeal, that terrain is down right difficult to build on. or impossible. not to mention the stingers.

night jay
#

Is it an ok idea to eventually set up aluminum sheets and things over in the swamp?

night jay
topaz hedge
#

the swamp is outright nasty as far as wildlife goes

fresh elm
#

Once you start building there they all will stop spawnjng

#

There's only one area on my map that creatures still spawn in

topaz hedge
#

but there's bauxite, copper, i think there's quartz and whatnot so off the top of my head the swamp has everything you need to make alclad, there's oil nearby if you need it as well.

sinful vale
#

my only sky base is on the red forest, i really couldn't be bothered to deal with the amount of invisible stuff there

topaz hedge
#

not only that.. the giant trees cant be removed

#

I found out the hardway when I was trying to clear it to build my fuelgen base..

sinful vale
#

really? i decided against building there before i started trying to clear it

topaz hedge
#

Yeah, I was going to build a skyplatform pretty low to the ground, and go back later and add supports so it wasn't floating. well, I'm still doing that, but not in the red forest lol

fresh elm
#

that is relatively recent, they killed that somewhere in the middle of update 2 iirc

#

you used to be able to cut most of that stuff down

topaz hedge
#

Hopefully they'll bring it back. Some of the trees clip through my pipeline and it irks me lol

frosty owl
#

Which is the best place to dump my water byproduct in aluminum production?

  1. Bauxite refineries (but would make the whole allu/baux loop to start up slower)
  2. Copper sheets refineries (would delay the heat-thing production)
  3. Load it on train and be done with it somewhere else
grave oasis
#

Why should #1 start up slower?

#

Just use valves and you're ok

topaz hedge
#

just feed it right back into the water feed really close to the alumia solution refineries you don't even need valves

frosty owl
#

Because I would need to wait for the allu refineries to pump out water before starting some of the bauxite refineries.
But if all the baux ref aren't on, the allu takes even MORE to start and so on... So I fear it would take ages to reach 100% without injecting water in the system

frosty owl
topaz hedge
#

yes

#

and it doesn't start up slower or take ages to reach 100%

#

you can even adjust your water extractors to account for the 60/min going back into the system, although i never did and it works fine

fresh elm
#

that stopped working as well in fluid update

#

you may want to go add a valve to your system.

grave oasis
frosty owl
#

Consider I want my water extractors to run at 100%
Are you saying to just let the extractors produce the right amount then ubderclock them once water starts coming from the allu scraps, @topaz hedge?

frosty owl
fresh elm
#

putting water back into a system that is already full

grave oasis
#

Water extractors just stop extracting water when the system is already full

oblique hollow
#

Valves can now be used to force an input priority, but i do not recommend it

fresh elm
#

I had to add valves, it broke my ghetto bauxite

frosty owl
topaz hedge
#

I'll have to check my al production then

#

if it doesn't work anymore it almost sounds like it's a bug?

fresh elm
#

@frosty owl it was taking new water from the extractor over closer water coming out of the refinery.

#

even though the extractor is at least 400 meters away

frosty owl
#

Ohhhh... I thought that was obvious, didn't think someone would rely on that xD

fresh elm
#

it used to fill with output before turning the extractor back on

#

now it just turns the extractor on regardless

frosty owl
#

Which makes more sense to me, unless you have a priority pipe system

oblique hollow
#

I do not recommend priority pipe systems

fresh elm
#

I mean, we don't have circuitry in this game. the only way that the 400 meters away extractor should know that it needs to put water out is there is empty space in its pipe

topaz hedge
#

well, first off, fluids in satisfactory don't behave like real fluids. so remember that

oblique hollow
frosty owl
#

Why not, @oblique hollow?

fresh elm
#

the way that fluid works, it goes between individual pipe segments.

#

that 15 segment away extractor shouldn't get to fill before the 1 segment away output.

#

I mean, that's just gravity.

oblique hollow
#

Its not stable

frosty owl
#

I don't get it...

fresh elm
#

but it's easy enough to just add a valve, but this is def new behavior

oblique hollow
#

The Valve Input priority, Vencam

#

remember that?

topaz hedge
#

same. im confused. I understand what you're saying but I'm trying to understand how and why

fresh elm
#

some of my pipe prioritization stuff broke this patch too

frosty owl
#

Quite, based on headlift to prioritize, right?

fresh elm
#

yes

oblique hollow
#

nah. its just that valves can force liquids into a pipe

#

compared to a non-valve pipe

frosty owl
fresh elm
#

luckily the only things that needed that prioritization were turbofuel.... and the odds of my turbofuel setup running at max capacity... well let's just say the odds of my computer catching fire are much higher

frosty owl
topaz hedge
#

that's fine, I'm one too. just sleepy and should probably be sleeping. but now I want to check my al production..

oblique hollow
#

We had this talk before

fresh elm
#

you can do the same thing with an unpowered pump

oblique hollow
#

Yep

frosty owl
#

Oh, I might've missed it...
We should hire someone to make clips of those convs too xD

fresh elm
#

makes sense a valve would do it too assuming it's a one way flow control

oblique hollow
#

Theres 2 prioritiy systems: The Head Lift overflow one and the valve one

frosty owl
#

So pretty much, the pipe with the shorter segment takes priority in filling up the junction?

fresh elm
#

no. just fluids are bidrectional til they're not

oblique hollow
#

No. The Pipe with the Valve takes priority

fresh elm
#

so the fluid coming from source B just can never go backwards

#

but the fluid from source A can.

oblique hollow
#

While A can back up into a Water extractor

frosty owl
#

And that's enough to prioritize flow from B...

fresh elm
#

well, the fluid from B will be filling pipe A also.

frosty owl
#

Ah...

fresh elm
#

but fluid from A can't fill B

frosty owl
#

Gotcha, thanks

fresh elm
#

thus B is always going to be preferred until the system is at equilibrium

frosty owl
#

Can't say I like it, though... Doesn't sound reliable...

fresh elm
#

once it reaches equilibrium it likely will be identical

oblique hollow
#

It definitely is unreliable since at some point, A will fight back

frosty owl
#

Right, I think I'll just send my water to the copper prod... Don't wanna deal with priority headaches...

#

Dear lord, I'd need a backup brain for this...

oblique hollow
#

Priority Splitting is easy. Priority Merging is a mess though

frosty owl
#

Urgh, no please! 😂

fresh elm
#

I don't need a full suite like ficsit networks, but a tiny amt of circuitry in this game would be excellent

frosty owl
#

Why would I ever priority merge ever again...

fresh elm
#

there's a lot of good reasons to priority merge

#

including things like, say, silica recycling in aluminum production

oblique hollow
fresh elm
#

a lot of people (as ill advised as I try to warn them it is) use a main bus in this game

frosty owl
fresh elm
#

so if you were to, say, hook up to a bus full of silica...

#

you'd want to use the silica from your production first

#

before touching the silica from the bus.

#

you can work around this problem in a lot of diff ways, I know.

oblique hollow
#

Use byproduct silica from refinery to keep it running, else use other silica

fresh elm
#

I'm just saying why you'd want the ability is understandable

frosty owl
#

Ohhh, yeah, in that scenario it'd make sense...

fresh elm
#

this sort of problem is why I try to tell people I don't like to use a bus in this game

oblique hollow
#

Im still working on finding a way to make Pipeline Logic usable.
The NAND Gate has a reaction speed of 30 seconds xd

frosty owl
#

That's a minus up there

fresh elm
#

sure, and like I said there's clearly a lot of ways to skin this cat

oblique hollow
#

Leave the cat alone, skin a lizard doggo

fresh elm
#

but priority merger would still be hella useful

frosty owl
#

Why not just split before merging, thought...?

fresh elm
#

hold on I hadn't seen that one lol

oblique hollow
#

straight up a burger lol

fresh elm
#

oh it's not got a doggo head in it

oblique hollow
#

sad

fresh elm
#

I was hoping

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

ah yes, Hannah "Lizard Doggo Meat" Burger

#

I hate how much the Pipelines resemble normal electronic circuits if you break them down enough

frosty owl
#

Also, nice screenshot coming in 2 min. Would love to see your stations to steal ideas take inspirations and compare <3

oblique hollow
#

well, Love-Hate i guess

frosty owl
#

I get the love, but why hate xD

oblique hollow
#

Buffer is Inductor
Pump is Diode or Amplifier
Valve is Resistor / Diode

#

@fresh elm heres your Transistor

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

It. Works.

#

That drives me crazy. THAT IT WORKS

frosty owl
#

So IRL it doesn't? xD

oblique hollow
#

of course not. Valve at 0 is closed

frosty owl
#

I mean the MOSFET

oblique hollow
#

IRL you could not build a MOSFET with Pipes like you can here

#

The fact that i can make a freaking Transistor with pipes makes me crazy. Excited.

frosty owl
#

I still don't see why you're so stumped by this.
Sounds to me that it'd only make you more likely to win a nobel over this

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

It only works with 1 type of fluid but nontheless. I can control one machine via another

sinful vale
#

just how many diagrams about fluids do you have?

oblique hollow
#

at least 5 now

silver cargo
#

nice

fresh elm
#

see, if only you could control a programmable splitter

oblique hollow
#

That would be nice

fresh elm
#

well, I mean

#

with your single fluid you can do something like make a single container

#

and then switch the container to any number of buildings

oblique hollow
#

programmable splitter is just Smart Splitter inside smart splitter

fresh elm
#

which generates an output

#

actually hell

sinful vale
#

mate, that folder is starting to look like some subscription sorta magazine

oblique hollow
#

like i said, the packager is probably the important converter here

fresh elm
#

you could have a row of these transistor and switch them on.

oblique hollow
#

oh god no, not a DA Converter

fresh elm
#

you could do memory using containers

oblique hollow
#

.... I can merger multiple smaller flows into a bigger flow..... using the transistors

fresh elm
#

clearing the output in a bit (storage bin) woudl involve pushing liquid in so that a container falls out of the bin

#

adding a bit to the register would involve pushing enough plastic (via pushing oil) to make a single container

#

unfortunately you'd need all your belts to be uniformly sized like an eniac

#

otherwise you'll get bad readings all the time

oblique hollow
#

not to mention that a single NAND gate takes like 30 seconds to react to an input change

fresh elm
#

oh yeah, this is NOT a fast computer.

oblique hollow
#

nope

#

The Transistors are fine, they take like 5 seconds

fresh elm
#

well you would obv shard every machien in the system to be 250% too

frosty owl
#

See, this kind of discussions is why I love that we can make transistors in game (goes grab pop-corns)

fresh elm
#

cut as much latency as possible lol

oblique hollow
#

You would have to come in with a very high flow

#

testing was done with only like 100.

#

the problem is having to drain the gate

#

cause thats the only way to reset the head lift at the valve (just like a real MOSFET)

frosty owl
#

Why is that an issue, doesn't packaging take care of that?

sinful vale
#

i ain't sure if my brain is gaining or losing wrinkles by trying to read this conversation and failing miserably

fresh elm
#

okay so how do you make a clock then

#

what can we read to make an oscillator

#

because we will need that to time resets

oblique hollow
#

Oh yea, the Comparator

frosty owl
#

We did just get oscillators, though...

oblique hollow
#

Period: 47 seconds

#

xd

frosty owl
fresh elm
#

oh man, you could use a pack/unpack loop as your oscillator I'm dumb

oblique hollow
#

Hmm... maybe

frosty owl
#

Or any production loop, really, but yeah

fresh elm
#

no no, you just make that entire thing long enough to clear the passage

oblique hollow
#

It was easier when i was dealing with the analog world. Flow Rate Interpolator, DOLA, Equalizer....
This is digital and its a mess

#

but hey, at least we got Low-Pass Filters

oblique hollow
frosty owl
#

Next year we'll be trying to encode messages in pipe systems from one side of the map to the other in multiplayer

oblique hollow
#

oh god Multiplexers xd

frosty owl
#

That's not a thing... yet... right?

oblique hollow
#

not yet.....
Not Yet

frosty owl
#

Even if I usually like to talk and do nothing more, I would probably USE one of those... Way too many actually useful appications for it

oblique hollow
#

just wanted to show that real quick.
(begone image)

frosty owl
#

They technically NEED to take a few of our jobs, though xD
As pioneers I mean ^^

#

Oh, the message I wanted to answer to disappeared... sad

oblique hollow
#

the day the Factory becomes sentient is when Ficsit will fire us

frosty owl
#

That implies we're currently getting paid....

sinful vale
#

nah, if the factories became sentient, they would demand raises

oblique hollow
#

At least they havent incinerated us

sinful vale
oblique hollow
#

(to use as fuel for the Biomass gen of course, Ficsit doesnt waste)

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

heh. It probably is like that

sinful vale
#

makes sense, we do have something that allows them to make us drop dead instantly

frosty owl
#

...drugged coffee?

oblique hollow
#

We have a freaking Respawn Button. A Killswitch

sinful vale
#

if it was like that, i would be dropping dead all the time, i was referring to the whole respawn button deal

frosty owl
#

Use it so rerely I even forgot about it

sinful vale
#

use it or not, it's still there

frosty owl
#

Petition for CS to delete the button for better Ficsit Emplyees welfare?

oblique hollow
#

Change Respawn to
"Mom come pick me up im scared"

sinful vale
#

ah, yes, i remember my school days when i would drop to the floor and appear in my house after a loading screen

frosty owl
#

I just noticed, but how come you don't have any roles on the server yet, @oblique hollow ?

oblique hollow
#

idk

frosty owl
errant moss
#

who da boss in dis ting

frosty owl
#

Her

oblique hollow
#

da channel or the server

errant moss
#

da server fam

frosty owl
#

Still her

sinful vale
#

check the roles on the right

oblique hollow
#

Thnutt and Joice why_so_snutt jace_smile

frosty owl
#

Still on the More thing....?
I think it was fair xD

errant moss
#

🙄

#

are the game devs here?

frosty owl
#

Sometimes...

oblique hollow
#

@frosty owl how come you have a wiki and translation role

frosty owl
#

I think the most active in discord is probably Ben

errant moss
#

well i only got the game last night. I just wanted to say its cool as shit

frosty owl
#

At least on the server

sinful vale
#

if they have an orange or purple name, they work in css

frosty owl
night jay
#

we do boring math in this chat

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

dis channel is for boring math and big brain Pipeline Logics

errant moss
#

well ill come back here when im about to lay some pipe bro

sinful vale
oblique hollow
#

i want my wiki role too 😢

night jay
#

@ one of the moderators

#

I did it a couple weeks ago

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

huh

frosty owl
night jay
#

Then I added how you cant place a freight station just anywhere, you have to connect it to a train station first.

oblique hollow
#

If i started to list all the things i found i would be banned for spam lul

frosty owl
#

I was like: should I point it out? Nah, it's too stupid of a mistake, I'm sure there's a reason for it I can't understand.... right....?

frosty owl
oblique hollow
#

Oh i did

night jay
#

lmao that actually made me laugh

frosty owl
#

Thoughts?
I wanted to have balanced outputs, so the ISC would fill out at the exact rate the machines are taking parts so I would be able to tell if I'm importing enough or not by seeing how full the ISC is when the next car comes ^^ (without having materials building up in the machines)

📎 Screenshot20201203-02230900000.png
oblique hollow
#

whats with the funky feedback loop on the splitters / mergers

frosty owl
#

It's the balancing. The first on right for instance limits flow to 600/min (MK 4+mk2)

oblique hollow
#

oh, ok

#

Isnt it more "Limiting" ?

#

Kinda like a Valve for Belts

frosty owl
#

Exactly 😁

oblique hollow
#

wait. Blue are the mergers, right?

frosty owl
#

Yes

oblique hollow
#

ah ok, i see

frosty owl
#

The real issue will be the 388.6 line, though... I can only limit that to 290 :/

night jay
#

That’s a bad number. Why is it 288.6? Can you find a way to bring it down to 270 maybe?

oblique hollow
#

or up to some other integer

night jay
#

I’m thinking 270 cause then you can use a mk3 belt

frosty owl
#

That's how much it takes :/
It's a maxed out build
390 is handy as it's MK3+mk2

oblique hollow
#

330, mk 3 + mk 1

frosty owl
#

Sorry, it's 388

oblique hollow
#

well thats easier

#

so just do the 390

frosty owl
#

Issue being that the extra would still go into the last machine, starving the rest before the next car comes in

#

All the other machines can be balanced easily as they are even numbers (90 or so)

frosty owl
drifting lake
#

Looking at teh math .. it says 15 Water Extractors can provide 40 Coal Gens .. my question is will it actually or will the last gen end up flaking at max power?

sand garnet
#

you just need to build 5 setups of the default 3:8 water extractor: coal generator thing

dull roost
#

im dumb and need math help

#

what type of equation is y=(1/5x)+17 (preferrably just show me how)

#

(;-;)

wind spade
#

uhh, this is not channel for helping you with math homework

dull roost
#

Ik

#

I’m just asking how to do it because I’m really stupid.

#

;-;

#

..?

#

Mind explaining why your being a dick, frito?

sand garnet
#

whats going on here

dull roost
#

Some guy cussed me out

#

Because I asked for math help here

sand garnet
#

not really the channel for that though

dull roost
#

I know

sand garnet
#

this is specifically for satisfactory still

wind spade
#

then move to appropriate channel 🙂

dull roost
#

Fair.

wind spade
dull roost
#

Not even sure what I did wrong ;-;

sinful vale
#

coal is just about copy and pasting the same 3 extractor 8 gens 120 coal set up as many times as you need/want

hearty coyote
#

@dull roost looks like a parabola to me

dull roost
#

Thanks

hearty coyote
#

I may be wrong but I think that’s what it is

frosty owl
#

@zenith apex I don't understand the screenshot's description o.O

zenith apex
#

I changed

frosty owl
#

I can't even tell what the "exit things" are, am I just missing context?

zenith apex
#

:o

#

See if you can understand now xD

frosty owl
#

Ohh, ok. Yeah, perfect 👌

zenith apex
#

Thank you :0

frosty owl
#

Can be more space-efficient, but it's details xD

zenith apex
#

Oh, I see, I'm trying hard to improve my building skills :D ty

bleak coral
sinful vale
#

load balancing energy producing buildings is sorta a waste of time considering that they will pretty much never run at 100%

wispy cradle
dull roost
#

thank you

glacial hemlock
#

@dull roost if you insist, this is hyperbolic equation. The asymptoe is at y = -17, x = 0 and the y axis is scaled to 20% due to the coefficient 1/5😂 almost 12 years after my last homework

#

@wispy cradle your equation... is it correct?

#

@frosty owl are you sure it is just a straight line

frosty owl
#

I read that as (1/5)*x
My bad

wispy cradle
#

1/5x = (1/5)x = ( 1/5)*x != 1/(5x)

glacial hemlock
#

Isn't that x/5? Lol

frosty owl
#

Yes

glacial hemlock
#

Nvm let the person doing the homework to choose the solution (or his teacher)

wispy cradle
#

Wolfram alpha has the answer, just copy and paste there.

glacial hemlock
#

I see you added parentheses there

frosty owl
glacial hemlock
#

Hmm, without parentheses, it is still being treated as linear

wispy cradle
#

without it we get the same answer

#

I just pasted his equation (which had parenthesis). I knew it was a line, but we can make mistakes, so it was an independent proof

frosty owl
#

For all we know, he could've meant 1/(5x)

wispy cradle
#

I can't read minds at distance.

glacial hemlock
#

Would be amazing if you could

night narwhal
#

@fierce ruin

Math time!

Standard recipe uses 22.5 quarts per min to make 37.5 silica.

cheap silica is 11.25 quartz and 18.75 limestone to make 26.25 silica a min.

So, to make 37.5 silica a min using the cheap silica we first devide the silica output by the cheap silica output. 37.5/26.5 = 1.42.

The means that to make the same amount of silica using cheap silica we need 1.42 Assemblers.

Next we multiply the per minuet inputs of cheap silica by 1.42 we get 16.07 quartz and 26.79 limestone.

So, to make 37.5 silica per min using cheap silica you only need 16.07 quartz per min. Where as the default recipe uses 22.5.

Limestone is abundant, space is abundant and power isn't really an issue. Thus I'd say, cheap silica is better.

fierce ruin
#

it depends on where you build the factory

#

wait

wind spade
#

it depends on available space, power, resources, time and type of factory you want to build (quick/temporary/proper/...). You can't say one recipe is better than another. It's always situational

fierce ruin
#

i thought both only use 3 quartz

wind spade
#

yeah but each recipe has different time to finish

bleak coral
#

cheap silica is more resource efficient when comparing weighted resources, which you should always do

#

but resource efficiency isn't the be-all end-all

#

no one is using the whole map

fierce ruin
#

plus you need silica for other stuff

bleak coral
#

I mean if you're talking best use of silica because of resource scarcity, using silica to make aluminum is the best use because bauxite is so rare

fierce ruin
#

that extra 3 when comparing both at the same speed that extrs 3 can be transport else where either to use or storage

bleak coral
#

what extra 3? cheap silica uses less quartz

fierce ruin
#

im talking about the amount of silica you get

night narwhal
#

I spent literally minutes writing my post breaking that down. :(

fierce ruin
#

sorry i see it differently

bleak coral
#

I have no idea what you're talking about

#

what extra 3?

night narwhal
#

Per 37.5 silica a min the cheap silica uses 5 LESS quartz a min.

fierce ruin
#

i have no plans on using quartz beyond its two main uses

#

silica and crystal quartz

bleak coral
#

and? that's all you can make with quartz

#

are you thinking we're talking about fine concrete? we're not talking about concrete

wind spade
#

that's literally the only two things you can make from quartz lol

fierce ruin
#

reprash

#

the next item on chain that takes cystal

wind spade
#

I'm more confused than before

#

our point:
quartz is used just for two things (quartz crystal and silica) and both have an alternate recipe that decreases amount of quartz needed in exchange for some common resource (water and limestone respectively). Unless you have a specific reason for it, using these recipes will make you able to produce more products

bleak coral
#

unless you've got some mod installed that you're confusing for a vanilla recipe

night narwhal
#

Also, you need a damn lot of Silica for aluminium production.

peak basalt
#

I think the extra 3 he/she was talking about is that the cycle time of the first is half that of the alt. So they were doubling the first recipe to match cycle times.

(Not agreeing with them in any way, just trying to figure out where the 3 was coming from)

opaque kernel
#

7 + 7 = 14

wind spade
#

not funny, does not belong in this channel

opaque kernel
#

i apoligize

deft lichen
#

opinions on the canister alts? are they any good?

hot ginkgo
#

Lund did all the math a while back.

#

400-500 materials to sink a full 666 turbofuel set up.

#

I think.

bleak coral
#

I still have all those tabs, but I can't get into it right now, but tldr coated canisters is really cheap and makes it appealing for stuff where you just want to sink it without much fuss

wind spade
#

I'd say they are pretty meh, since you usually don't want to produce canisters

#

for most setups you mostly recycle canisters

#

if you are for some reason producing packaged stuff tho, they are decent

jaunty geyser
#

better to use than petrol if you need to choose

obsidian sluice
#

iirc coated canisters are superior to base, but then again there isn't much reason to produce canisters in the first place

#

like even though the alts are arguably better, I still have to produce them elsewhere before bringing them to my oil refineries

night jay
#

The only reason I see to produce cannisters is jetpack fuel. Which is what I am currently doing with some of my excess plastic and HOR prouction. Filled up a bin and am sinking the rest of it

dusky dust
#

Well, you'd need initial production of 'em to fill up your diluted fuel loops, if you're doing any of those, and it's nice to have a healthy backlog in case you want to spin up more in the future

#

And occasionally you might want to set up some fluid overflow into some packagers, if you're worried about looped fluid systems backing up

bleak coral
#

For filling up loops I'd just use vanilla, two refineries and some slugs on an unused oil node is good enough for that

night jay
#

You could always just set up a temp factory for cannisters, then feed an excess amount into the system. If it's a loop, it should work perfectly from there.

bleak coral
#

It's not like it needs to stay

#

You can overfill a manifold loop system and clog it. I wouldn't automate filling it, I'd still fill it by hand.

#

Of course after my experience woth manifold loop I also wouldn't do it again, and just do 1:1:1.

night jay
#

I'm all for just overloading it with cannisters so then they are never an issue

bleak coral
#

You can add too many though

night jay
#

How so? With a loop, they would circle through the system and saturate all the machines, as long as you supply more than the amount required.

#

I probably shouldn't have said overload

#

fill

hot ginkgo
#

During heavy loads the containers fill up paat the point of no load

#

They can back up into the unpackagers.

night jay
#

oh true

bleak coral
#

Yup that

night jay
#

didn't think about that

hot ginkgo
#

I have a fairly short run for the return line. During low load I get maybe 20 containers before the water packagers. During heavy load ill get 100 or more in the container.

bleak coral
#

You want the belts between the water pacakagers and fuel unpackagers to be empty enough to not stop empty canisters from leaving when it unpacks fuel

night jay
#

So maybe just 5-10% more than the required amount would work?

hot ginkgo
#

For me personally. I removed all load from the system and let all the machines and belts fill up. Then introduced just enough on the return line to reach part way to my container.

bleak coral
#

I'll be honest I'm pretty sure my loop is fine, but I'm still gonna watch my power for fluctuations because I'm not 100% confident in it

#

I attached a buffer, and let it run until it filled up and watched for any irregularities and then added or removed canisters as needed

hot ginkgo
#

Thats the easiest way. During my test runs I realized that the return belt is at its lowest during no load. And basically fills up during high load.

bleak coral
#

@deft lichen this is my preferred solution for packaging excess turbofuel for sinking/storing: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=1I6VX283hV3WV1p1pTGV

It avoids using extra refineries and makes use of the polymer resin efficiently. It also doesn't add extra oil or coal. You can do more weighted resource efficient versions by using steel-coated plates, pure recipes, and steam copper sheets, or some combination thereof. But I figured the point of doing is to not add a bunch more refineries, so this is what I like.

This is also not a bad one if you don't mind adding 33.3 coal to take away a little bit of copper and 173.55 iron ore. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=VkIkSnTfk7slTcW49dEf

#

An example situation where you could use the new coated iron canister.

deft lichen
#

I was interested as the canister alts are not in the list of alts on the wiki, so I wanna know if they fall into good/niche/bad

#

I would say good as both remove the need for plastic?

oblique hollow
#

i come bearing somewhat bad news

dusky dust
#

Yeah, I'd personally class 'em as Good

oblique hollow
#

who here has had trouble with pipe manifold that are at least 20 splits large

dusky dust
#

Heck, I've been having problems with pipe manifolds of just 10.

#

I'm glad we got a Christmas event to take my mind off it; I'm just letting that part of my factory sit in the corner and think about what it's done, while I'm off having fun.

hot ginkgo
oblique hollow
#

mk 2 pipe?

hot ginkgo
#

Nah, that was pre-3.5

oblique hollow
#

aight

#

cause mk 2 pipes dont like more than about 15 splits or so

#

i have 3 - 4 random machines drop to 92 - 98% efficientcy from time to time. And that was after i limited every single pipe with a valve

hot ginkgo
#

Hmm. My current set up has 20 in a single run. A main branch feeds 4 groups of 20 machines. And that's using a mk2.

#

I have however noticed issues with maxing out a pipe.

oblique hollow
#

yeah, this pipe is maxed out

dusky dust
#

Yeah, it still feels to me like there must've been some update at some point which introduced some maxed-out-pipe issues. It's confusing; some of my factory seems totally fine, but my attempted 300->900 platic setup has been unable to run at 100% due to fluid delivery issues

hot ginkgo
#

My case was using 10 refineries to process oil into heavy oil. The last machine just couldn't stay running. The oil would slowly drain.

dusky dust
#

The thing that fixed it up best, and seemed to let me run the thing for a good while without problems, was ditching the pipe manifold and doing a sort-of balancer on it instead

#

I have yet to try re-outfitting the whole thing like that to see if that does do the trick for me

hot ginkgo
#

Best as I can tell, the fluids need to fluctuate to maintain levels in the whole manifold. But when you max out a pipe. It can't do that much. Using a mk2 pipe in place of my mk1 pipe having issues immediately fixed the problem for me. I also saw a 300 line of oil spiking to around 350-375 frequently.

dusky dust
#

(Which I'd prefer not to do, but at least I'm hiding delivery stuff under the floor, so the "main" level wouldn't look awful)

oblique hollow
#

large pipe manifolds (at least, in the case i tested with @twin jacinth, which was 20 ), nothing can be done to achieve 100% flow but to limit every single pipe going to a refinery. And even then, some will turn off periodically

hot ginkgo
#

Mine was only 10.

oblique hollow
#

with a maxed mk 2 he managed to get the first 17 refineries, which needed 30, running

#

but his last 3 constantly had issues

#

i tested the entire setup together with him. Even tried my own tricks

hot ginkgo
#

My only solution i found was splitting the manifold right at the start, and running it down to the end.

#

I still saw some iffy supply st the middle but everything was running 100%

oblique hollow
#

now all 20 refineries are at about 98% efficiency

#

actually: after calculating the average: 95%

twin jacinth
#

Even with this setup (I saw someone mentioned this 3-4-3 split on reddit that its 100% with 10 machines.) the result is not 100%, not even with a pump at the main 600/min line:

📎 unknown.png
oblique hollow
#

wait, it actually failed?

twin jacinth
#

yes, after x hours. Well, this setup still had the best results so far

dusky dust
#

@twin jacinth Ah, boo, I was hoping that that, at least, would end up doing the trick

#

I'd only let my test of that go for maybe ~30min or so (by which time basically all my other attempts would've started dipping below 100%)

#

There has to've been a change at some point which caused this to sort-of break. That, or those 300oil->whatever loops never actually ran at 100%

fierce ruin
#

u'll never get too 100% without some "buffer" cos we are talking about a game, game engine, down to 0/1 technically 😄 so i would add one more extractor, split it, and add it after the first split from 600 to 2x300 or even later on

dusky dust
#

I know that someone (Bando?) had mentioned they'd seen issues like that even prior to the fluid update, so it wasn't that.

twin jacinth
#

This is a serious problem. Right now its impossible to work with fluids. Im not sure about at what point it stops working with 100% so I can imagine, that one single 50% split would be fine, but that doesnt help, more splits just kill the fluid distribution.

fierce ruin
#

well it is kinda real 😄 cos in real life it happens too xD

dusky dust
#

I mean, AnotherAlex's suggestion would theoretically be enough. Just make sure you're not maxing out your pipes, which might just mean running more water

#

Which is something I'm not eager to do, but I was thinking about doing that anyway

#

I just keep coming back to those 300oil loops, though. Those have to have been working properly at some point, right? There'd be notes on the wiki about not being able to actually run them at 100% if they've been like this forever, don't'cha think?

fierce ruin
#

my ones are always full with water and coal and they are running with ~50% efficiency but who cares as long as everything is working an running... perfectism ok, ye 😄 ...but im too ol,d for this i have no time lol

twin jacinth
#

I understand that explanation-suggestion-workaround but its very hard to accept it. It should NOT be a problem for the game, to handle this.

fierce ruin
#

what about accepting it as a "real life simulation factor"?

#

its just impossible to run at 100% efficiency in real life so why should it work in a game?

dusky dust
#

FICSIT's got the nanites to make 100% happen. I believe in 'em!

twin jacinth
#

Well, I would turn this to the opposite. Since its not real life, it should be able to run at 100%. But this is not really about the percentage. Something is wrong (I dont want to call it a bug at this point). So its not like thanks to the flawless programming, they managed to simulate the nonperfect fluid behavior. Its more like something is not ok with the fluids.

fierce ruin
#

i kinda understand your point 😄 20 years ago i would think maybe thr same 😄 but i learned to ignore such little things hehe 😉

twin jacinth
#

The game is called satisfactory for a reason!

fierce ruin
#

oh ye... i guess my son learned better math and ratio calculations with satisfactory than with normal school methods lol

oblique hollow
#

95% efficiency when your math says it should be 100% is not satisfactory

dusky dust
#

Yeah, I'd thought I was going crazy when I ran into this myself. Assuming I was doing something boneheaded.

fierce ruin
#

even your car does not work with the numbers the munfacturer tells you, also not your phone, your bicycle and much more stuff 😄

twin jacinth
#

something is just too strange for me. How is everybody working with fluids? Sure, there are a lot of ppl who just dont care about machines with yellow indicators, but there must also be a lot of ppl who care about this. Yet I dont see this complain anywhere, apart from some random reddit posts.

fierce ruin
#

and yes, if you calculate them 😄 the real numbers would also differ

dusky dust
#

Gabor - In my recent experience, it's not something that happens all the time

twin jacinth
#

We can also ask this way: Where the hell is the fluid that is missing in those not 100% machines?

oblique hollow
#

vaporized by rounding errors in mk 2 pipe calculations

dusky dust
#

Like I'm maxing out some pipes to do Wet Concrete, Pure Copper, Steamed Copper Sheets, and Aluminium, in my new base, and all those seem to run at 100% no problem

#

It's only in my 300->900 plastic loop that I'm constantly hitting this inefficiency for some reason

twin jacinth
#

No no no no. I refuse to believe this 😄

oblique hollow
#

are those mk 2 pipes @dusky dust ?

dusky dust
#

Yep

oblique hollow
#

something something recipe broken?

dusky dust
#

But yeah, this 300->900 plastic loop that's literally right next to the other stuff, being pulled using the same methods from the same water-harvesting area, just fails to get to 100% for some reason

#

I'll have to check to make sure I really am maxing out the pipes on that concrete/copper/aluminum stuff, of course

#

Perhaps I've got some bits left over that I'm not remembering

#

Been so focused on trying to figure out the Plastic loop stuff that my memory's a bit hazy. :)

last moon
#

any idea for a steel layout? i dont know how to do it

twin jacinth
short yoke
#

whats a good late iron factory production ratio?

#

im producing 2275 iron ingots/min

#

and dont know how to divide the production line

sand garnet
#

As much as you need

reef ermine
#

Does anyone have a 1-10 balancer blueprint?

exotic ledge
#

Could you do a single line splits to two, and each of those individual lines are a 1-to-5?

reef ermine
#

I hadn't thought of that, thanks.

#

I will do exactly that

sand garnet
#

just manifold it

#

easy peasy

twin jacinth
#

unless its fluid..

hot ginkgo
#

I do fluids in manifolds.

reef ermine
#

I would, but I have never liked manifolds, I prefer having each output being 1/10th of the input, just personal preference.

hot ginkgo
#

No issues with fluid manifolds unless the pipe is maxed.

twin jacinth
#

Can you describe your fluid manifold with more details? Any drawing or screenshot?

hot ginkgo
#

Here's one.

I also have 8 rows of 19 fuel gens each, split into 4 groups, bring fed by 2 shared mains.

📎 unknown-31.png
#

I dont have a picture of that.

#

I also had 4 rows of 37 fuel gens each before my turbo rebuild.

#

Those refineries are connected beneath the picture. I just split it jnto 2 because the pipe inputs don't line up.

twin jacinth
#

how much fluid do you have in the main line?

hot ginkgo
#

My current set up flows 333 turbo through each side. Which then goes into the 4 sections of fuel gens per side.

That one in the picture has 200 in each pipe I think?

#

The main oil feed is 300. I had to move that to a mk2 pipe because the last machine in the manifold wasn't being fed properly.

oblique hollow
#

i just completed testing inside Gab's save.
With Mk 2 Pipe manifolds, as long as its not 600 flow, the refineries will fill

#

If its exactly 600, then you lose 1% of the flow

sand garnet
#

shows why they were reluctant to implement pipes that could do more than 300 per min

oblique hollow
#

yea

sand garnet
#

math just breaks at some point

oblique hollow
#

Not only do they fluctuate a lot, but they lose flow at max

#

When doing Mk 2 Manifolds with 600 flow, make sure to keep the manifold as small as possible

#

then theres still hope of it working

#

with water, 10 splits still seemed to work

#

but 20 splits with fuel? nah
Viscosity also might play a role here, but im not sure

hot ginkgo
#

I'm pretty sure viscosity isn't modeled in game.

cunning horizon
#

math question since its been a while since college

#

could you model your output in this game using a linear program?

#

i figure recipes could probably be defined as constraints easily, with the variables being either the number or proportion of materials going into each recipe

#

would be very interested in seeing solutions to production that optimize for different aspects

hot ginkgo
#

Greenys calculator does weighted resources in how it decides what recipes are best, assuming you give it free reign and allow it to use all recipes.

cunning horizon
#

oh dope, yeah this is close to what i was looking for. the calculator on satisfactory-calculator seemed to require a specific level of output when i was more concerned with what the maximum output actually is

hot ginkgo
#

I think he's sleeping, otherwise I'd ask. But I think if you lower availability of resources in the items tab. It will change the weight of them.

cunning horizon
#

the one thing i’m super curious about is what a factory might look like if you optimize for machine efficiency, which i’m unsure how to solve for generally

hot ginkgo
#

As in lowest number of machines? And lowest power draw?

cunning horizon
#

more like, use up every resource on the map, and keep all machines as close to 100% efficiency as possible

#

or even more interesting, maximize for awesome sink points

#

i suppose minimizing power usage might be the same thing as maximizing efficiency

hot ginkgo
#

Greenys gives you 100% efficiency. Shows both number of items needed as well as amount of machines. Even listing the partial machine as a decimal. Like 15.45 refineries.

#

I dont think you'll ever get 100% efficiency without clock adjustments. Some of the ratios get weird.

cunning horizon
#

oh for sure, it’s impossible

#

but it’s super interesting to try and reach the maximum possible

twin jacinth
#

So I managed to do a 100% efficiency 600 -> 20x30 fluid distribution after 2 days of experimenting. Ive been monitoring it for 2 hours by now and its still working 100%.

#

The solution seems to be that the game cant handle 600/min fluids, not even with mk2 pipes

#

570/min is ok According to the tests done by McGalleon, but above that it just doesnt work, machines will be starving

#

The only solutiuon which worked for me is avoiding 600/m fluids completely. For example if I have 10 packagers outputting 10x60 fuel, then I cant merge those into 1x600 mk2 pipe. Instead, Im merging the output of 5 packagers to a mk2 pipe with 300/min, and the other 5 packagers into an other mk2 pipe with 300/min. So the 600/min fuel is transported in a 2x300 split which the game can handle. That 300 can be then split to 10 refineries in a 3-4-3 setup resulting in 10x30

strange epoch
#

Would it be feasible to cut all liquid consumptions and productions by half, and make Mk2 pipes 300/min and Mk1 150/min

#

If the underlying problem is units per tick

twin jacinth
#

good question. I think its a good idea, however it depends on the coding

#

I also tried a lot of variations. Pumps, valves, fluid tanks, prefilling.

#

The 3-4-3 distribution that was described in this reddit post definitely helped. But that is only part of the solution. So this setup is quite good with the 3-4-3 setup, but not 100% good:

📎 unknown.png
strange epoch
#

Could it be passback between t-pipes? Mindustry has similar problems with router/junction chains. A manifold with overflow gates (that don’t re-route and passback, wasting throughput) flows more than double the items/second vs a manifold with routers.

#

Did you try the 3-4-3 with valves immediately after each cross pipe output?

twin jacinth
#

I was trying valves only when I was using a manifold that had 600/min input and split to 20x30. I tried the valves with limit of 30

#

I didnt try the valves on this 3-4-3 because it was simply not necessary

#

And valves already didnt work in the manifold setup

#

as far as I know, CSS confirmed that there will be no mk3++ pipes, simply because the algorithm the games is using for that is already pushed to its limit with the 600/min of mk2

#

(Correct me if Im wrong)

strange epoch
#

I'd try valves here
edit: and a third between the inital cross pipe and the center 4 refineries

📎 Valves_idea.png
grand wave
#

What algorithm are they using? I certainly hope they aren't running with actual fluid physics...if that's the case, it's no wonder there are so many frame dips when running around.

twin jacinth
#

In that reddit post OP says, 3-4-3 works with 300/min incoming fluid. And this is exactly what I experienced.

#

My first draw.io picture us using the 3-4-3 split BUT with 600 fluid input.

strange epoch
#

it's 100% with 300/sec, but not quite with 600/sec?

twin jacinth
#

My second draw.io picture is also 3-4-3 BUT with 300 fluid input and its fine

grand wave
#

Also, for those factory-planning pictures that the two of you posted, which website/software are you using?

twin jacinth
grand wave
#

Thank you!

twin jacinth
strange epoch
twin jacinth
#

It would be an interesting question that if I only have 300 fluid in the mk2 pipe, would it work with mk1 pipes as well? I dont know the answer. Its jsut a few mouse clicks to downgrade the pipes to mk1, but Im VERY tired mentally, Ive been dealing with this fluidbullshit for 2 days already. Now I have a working solution, I dont even wanna touch it. I mean I will dismantle everything because this was just an experiement, its ugly, Im gonna rebuild the same nicely.

twin jacinth
strange epoch
#

If it's a working factory, by all means leave it alone 😉 I assumed it was in a testing save with creative building mods

twin jacinth
#

nah, it was my "live" save.

#

This was my manifold setup. I even started decorating it when I realized, its not working correctly because of the 600 fluid error:

📎 unknown.png
#

so now back to the design phase. I know what to build now, I just have to design it in a nice way

cunning horizon
#

haven’t had full attention on this chat, what exactly is the error? mk2 pipes aren’t actually hitting 600m^3/s?

twin jacinth
#

yes, still that 🙂

#

or again that

cunning horizon
#

oof that is unfortunate

twin jacinth
#

solution is not using 600/m fluid, well, its rather a workaround

#

solution and workaround are two very different things

fierce ruin
#

i never had a real issue with mk2 pipies

#

i am attempting to see how it goes with my aluminum factory on 1 water generator

#

as all mk2 pipes

sand garnet
#

1 extractor can only fill a mk1 pipe

twin jacinth
#

@fierce ruin Try to split fluid with manifold system into 10 and you will see. Im not sure if this is with all fluids.

#

I would be VERY happy if it turned out, we are wrong and its possible to do it. I dont like this 3-4-3 splitting method at all, its ugly.

wispy cradle
#

with mk1 pipe, any problem with 10 junction manifold?

twin jacinth
#

I dont know, I stopped testing at the point where it was finally running without flow issues. And that was: 10 machines, 300/min flow rate, mk2 pipes, fuel. I have the save, where I could jsut replace the mk2 pipes with mk1, but Im way too tired of this. Each test has to be kept running for a long time. I wasnt in the mood for doing yet an other iteration. Im gonna test it later on, but now I want to continue building because I was just testing this for 2-3 without any progress with my factory

#

there are way too many scenarios to test. But yes, it would be good to know, what the problem exactly is. Like the 600 flow rate? Its too high for the game? Or you just cant fully utilize the capacity of any pipes? In this case mk1 wouldnt be good either, but I have the feeling, they would be fine. My guess is that issue is rather with the 600 fluid rate.

#

wait.

#

Actually there are two issues. One is the manifold, and an other with the 600/m flow rate. I was concentrating on the 2nd problem.

#

My guess is that you will have problems with 10 junction fluid manifold probably even with mk1 pipe.

oblique hollow
#

I think they said they are running some mashup version of bernoulli, euler or maybe navier - stokes, but heavily simplyfied

fierce ruin
#

Gabor, my thought on a mk2 pipe is less piping good for oil production

#

the thought is on my testing of just using 1 water pump is that the aluminum solution also produces water

twin jacinth
#

Scenario is very different at Alu, at least iin my setup. No manifolds, and no high flow rates, so none of the problems (manifold - 600 flow rate fluid) appear there

oblique hollow
#

the only issue here is that mk 2 pipes at max flow rate seem to lose like 1-5% in their math, even though input still reads 600

sinful vale
oblique hollow
#

mk 2s work just as well as mk 1, as long as you dont hit 600

sinful vale
#

i was using them to save up doing 2 300 lines, so mine was running (or at least trying to) at 600

oblique hollow
#

Ive tested Gabor's Plastic Recycling Setup personally together with him. I even tried a few of my own tricks. Nothing. 20 splits and the last refinery would always struggle

glacial hemlock
#

I will mention it in the wiki to warn peoples

oblique hollow
#

Its a really odd case

sinful vale
#

just to be sure, consider mk2 more like up to 550 flow rate to save you some nasty surprises

oblique hollow
#

570 is still save

twin jacinth
#

Imagine opening the chocolatebox which supposed to have 10 chocolates and you find only 9 and a half in it.

oblique hollow
#

it really be like that

vast jungle
#

Hi, does someone know how much extra width/length you have to add (to the values in the wiki) when planning a factory layout?

bleak coral
#

To building dimensions? Those should be accurate to the collision boxes used for adding buildings. Are any not?

pine tangle
#

I believe the dimensions of buildings are rather exact if you build using foundations. Except Manufacturer - it collision box is noticeably smaller than actual 3D model.

vast jungle
#

I noticed that when I place the buildings on foundations side by side they seem to be a little bit further away than they should... have to experiment a little bit more.

bleak coral
#

I don't mind double checking the numbers, never bad to be sure they're all up to date

vast jungle
#

maybe its just that I wasn't able to place them dense enough together. I thought there might be a "minimum distance" between two hitboxes

bleak coral
#

nope, on foundations you can place them right next to eachother

#

there's a different hitbox for building placement though than the actual models

vast jungle
#

I will try again... thank you for verifying that the problem is most likely on my side of the screen 🙂

#

just managed to get a few coal power plants up and running and thought "hey lets clean up this mess over there"... that was a few days ago 😉

bleak coral
#

oh, yeah if you're messing with coal generators I could see the confusion coming up, they have a weird hitbox for building placement

#

it goes all the way to the top of the smokestack, even though you can stand on top of the building

vast jungle
#

no, its a new "iron" factory... one that should produce both Reinforced Iron Plates and Motors...

The coal power plant is half a kilometer away from my main base, directly at the water and close to the Coal Node.

mild wind
#

What should I use to plan my factories? So far it’s just been confusing on pen and paper

vast jungle
mild wind
#

Thanks

frosty owl
hexed forum
#

pen and paper is a pretty good place to start though

#

flowcharts on paper are a great way to get it mapped out

frosty owl
#

At what point in your playthrough did you start drawing stuff?

hexed forum
#

when I wanted replate and rotors on the go lol

twin jacinth
#

I drew 20xA4 sized paper full of designplans by pen 🙂

frosty owl
vast jungle
# hexed forum when I wanted replate and rotors on the go lol

I had a good plan... it just didn't fit together because of the belts ;)

the idea is to take 120 iron ore and make then to 5 ReinforcedIronPlates and 4 Rotors... and some IronPlates as left overs... should run at 100%. But I would like to make it "compact"...

like I said, this was a few days ago... I have practice in taking down lots of stuff now 😉

hexed forum
#

120 iron ore does fit very neatly into something like that plan

frosty owl
hexed forum
#

I use a flowchart website for bigger stuff now

#

the satisfactory tools site does it all for you but I actually like going through the numbers

vast jungle
hexed forum
#

there's always space somewhere :)

hot ginkgo
#

@mild wind The pins in this channel have 2 other calculators. Check them as well. The one you where linked gets cluttered during large plans.

vast jungle
twin jacinth
#

@frosty owl I just draw factory segments, build designs, floorplans. Lots of calculations, math, numbers. Paper is always my 2nd stage of a project. 3rd is drawing it in drawio. 4th is ingame, experimental build, ugly, not that accurate. 5th is when things get serious and I start to build it only to realize something is wrong. 6th stage is fuck it, imma rather watch youtube. 7th, ok, enough, lets get this done.

frosty owl
frosty owl
sinful vale
frosty owl
vast jungle
sinful vale
#

that time is time i could spend doing more productive things, like watching a 15min vid about conspiracy theories

frosty owl
#

But yeah, it is quite tricky on space if you want to make things compact xD

frosty owl
twin jacinth
#

how do you balance rates like 5.625 / min ?

sinful vale
frosty owl
sinful vale
vast jungle
sinful vale
#

at most i tend to balance stuff up to sets of 5 and manifold it from there

frosty owl
#

What do you mean?

twin jacinth
frosty owl
vast jungle
#

the size difference between the different machines (e.g. Smelter and Constructor) is always a pain when you think "I will make it really compact"

mild wind
#

wait whats the diff between a manifold and a balancer

#

i tried looking it up but that made me more confused

sinful vale
#

manifold is the low effort one where you just put a bunch of splitters in a row and wait for it to balance it self out

frosty owl
mild wind
#

ohhhh

sinful vale
#

balancing is the one for people with severe OCD where you split and merge until every line has the perfect input

mild wind
#

oh thats just what ive been doing since i had no clue there was another wya

#

way*

frosty owl
vast jungle
frosty owl
mild wind
#

wait so do i just merge everything then split and backlog?

vast jungle
#

imagine just a line of splitters

twin jacinth
#

let me who you a screenshot

hot ginkgo
#

2 manifolds feeding 2 rows of refineries.

mild wind
#

ohhhh like that

vast jungle
#

first splitter puts half into the first machine and only have into the rest of the line... but as soon as the first machine is full, it will only take what it need from the line

twin jacinth
mild wind
#

so i couldnt rlly put a line of smelters then manifold into constructors could I?

frosty owl
#

Can you still call it manifold if you do like in your screenshot but with valves on each refinery? 🤔
@hot ginkgo

frosty owl
vast jungle
#

problem with manifolds, you might need a belt that can hold the stuff for ALL attached machines

hot ginkgo
#

I mean you could. A few factories I worked at had valves for temperature control to each production line. And we still called it a manifold.

frosty owl
#

Well, with valves it makes no sense to balance pipes without a many fold 🤣

mild wind
#

(i have mk3 belts) so id merge 8 smelters then have 1 line out into constructors?

vast jungle
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwguwhizdlE

YouTube
TotalXclipse
How to Build Manifolds the Overflow Method [Satisfactory Basics Guide]

Hey guys and welcome back to another guide and this time we're going back to the basics in this manifold guide, the reason for this is that with the new layout series, I feel this will be a good edition so that new players can come to here to see how manifolds are built rather than having to explain it in every video.

In this video we cover wha...

▶ Play video
frosty owl
sinful vale
mild wind
#

oh that is gonna make my factory SO MUCH more compact

#

i can just have 1 tile between each type rather than like 4 for mergers and splitters

frosty owl
# sinful vale

So you divide the input and feed it to arrays of manifold?

sinful vale
#

yeah

vast jungle
#

sometimes you need two lines... one line of mergers to collect everything, one line of splitters to feed the next group of machines.

mild wind
#

not a 90 degree angle... so sadge

frosty owl
# sinful vale yeah

Funny enough, I do the opposite ahahah
Balance in arrays and often feed them by manifold

frosty owl
mild wind
#

that would get super annoying as my entire factory is hanging off the side of a cliff

vast jungle
#

sometimes you can balance like a manifold by using MK1 belts... e.g. when you split up lots of resources into chunks of 60

hot ginkgo
#

Fun fact, most real world factories use manifolds for everything. Because of the cost and simplicity.

mild wind
#

also should i use smart! mod to build foundations ive been trying to stay away from mods but foundations succ

frosty owl
mild wind
#

i have space but building is so irritating