yea, sulfur is the limiting factor for turbofuel
#math-and-meta
signal sky
cold snow
@cold snow Or "just" 800 plastic AND rubber ๐
@frosty owl if you would actually consume all the turbofuel that gets produced and make your input refineries run at 100% you would also get 400 polymer resin per minute from the 44GW plant
ornate ridge
is it not a bad idea to chain my power stations to set each one up? say backup geothermal gens to power by coal gen plant which powers my fuel gen plant which powers my nuclear plant
cold snow
which would be an extra 200 rubber/min
ornate ridge
if that makes sense lol
signal sky
With mk2 miners, I'm gathering all the sulfur in the world except 2 nodes for turbofuel
cold snow
my 44GW plant uses 2 impure and 1 normal node of sulfur. at 250% that is and mk3 miners
frosty owl
@frosty owl if you would actually consume all the turbofuel that gets produced and make your input refineries run at 100% you would also get 400 polymer resin per minute from the 44GW plant
@cold snow Or use the polymer resin from the HOR to make fabric since tiy already need water for other parts of the system ๐
With a pure node it'd be enough to make all the filters you could use
signal sky
8550/m turbofuel if you use all the sulfur with mk3 miners
ornate ridge
woa
signal sky
for 285GW
ornate ridge
now thats aloota power xD
signal sky
my turbofuel power will only make 100GW
frosty owl
is it not a bad idea to chain my power stations to set each one up? say backup geothermal gens to power by coal gen plant which powers my fuel gen plant which powers my nuclear plant
@ornate ridge If you ever run out of power, you'll be incredibly glad you've done that
Smart
ornate ridge
has anyone made a factory save that need 1 terawatt of energy to run lol
signal sky
8550/4.5*150=285000MW
ornate ridge
or would your save crash xD
frosty owl
Yeah... KIBITZ as far as I know, others that I don't know of too
ornate ridge
is there even enough energy sources to make 1tw?
signal sky
kibs world doesnt need over a terawatt
frosty owl
or would your save crash xD
@ornate ridge There is actually a "item number limit" that prevents you from building so much your PC crashes
ornate ridge
I wonder how much energy kib's save uses at full load, iirc most of his stuff has backed up in production right?
frosty owl
kibs world doesnt need over a terawatt
@signal sky But it does crash for being too big ^^
ornate ridge
iirc his save is only using around 20-30gw if I recall rn
his nuclear makes tons though lol
signal sky
but with nuclear power you can get up to 1.2 TW
but using all the resources in the world only requires .5TW
/according to the wiki/
cold snow
@ornate ridge per row there are 5 tanks full with turbofuel to start the production back up in case i somehow run out of any input ressource and don't notice while the previous 5 tanks empty. at the mid point there is a valve that lets the last 5 only get filled until i remove it
ornate ridge
someone did a max nuclear build a while ago I think, @wooden pond would know I think (:
all the nuclear plants :evil:
cold snow
iirc his save is only using around 20-30gw if I recall rn
@ornate ridge not all factories are running for that amount. he hasnt tried it so far how much he would really use if i recall correctly
frosty owl
@ornate ridge per row there are 5 tanks full with turbofuel to start the production back up in case i somehow run out of any input ressource and don't notice while the previous 5 tanks empty. at the mid point there is a valve that lets the last 5 only get filled until i remove it
@cold snow You can clearly see the power of nuclear when noticing how 1 NORMAL storage container full of nuclear rods can provide as much or more energy then all those fuel storages ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ
ornate ridge
yea lol
cold snow
yeah but i would need to unlock nuclear for that ๐
ornate ridge
how do you ensure the fluid tanks stay full of turbo fuel?
frosty owl
how do you ensure the fluid tanks stay full of turbo fuel?
@ornate ridge Valves or pumps on the inputs
signal sky
and just dont have them connected to anything once full
ornate ridge
ah oke
cold snow
next step after the turbofuel powerplant is a aluminium plant that collects all the bauxite on the left of the map
ornate ridge
thats a good idea though, havent looked into buffers much
signal sky
I stored up like 82k fuel to kickstart my turbofuel production on temp gens
cold snow
I stored up like 82k fuel to kickstart my turbofuel production on temp gens
@signal sky yeah i have it hooked up to the powerplant and the miners on the compacted coal, all of that is connected via a single cable to the rest of the map, so i could just start the fuel production again
building this takes soooooo forever if you play without mods. i think i just placed 1000 walls
signal sky
diluted packed fuel plant is fun
The more you build the more it just looks like a factorio screenshot
signal sky
yea
ornate ridge
so many oil nodes up there ๐
signal sky
using the 3 normal and 2 pure just to make diluted packaged fuel
ornate ridge
cant decide what to use em for
signal sky
ignoring the impures for now except as temp fuel gens to power this
ornate ridge
Im temped to use them all up and make all the oil products
havent worked out how yet lol
cold snow
ignore the diagonal foundations, i still need to remove those
thats also only 1 layer of fuelgens so far, there are going to be 3 on top
ornate ridge
how do you go about grouping piping together when drawing from lots of oil nodes?
my pipes look pretty spaghet
cold snow
well that is only a single node, so i didnt do it yet ๐
otherwise i would simply place foundations and then stackable supports if needed
ornate ridge
gonna need all the concrete ๐
signal sky
oh yea, its all in contained buildings, so it need a buttload of concrete
ornate ridge
quick math, what is the highest concrete p/m a person can typically use per second?
no mods, just vanilla clicking ๐
signal sky
as fast as you can click *6
so not that much
I think the world record for mouse clicks is 16 per second
16x60x6
ornate ridge
on my vanilla playthough, Ive been using the "side" clicking method to fill horizontal gaps lol
my fingers love me xD
hmm so I would need a factory making 5760 concrete p/m =]
i think thats doable lol
I can see why people use the alt recipe instead lol
384 constructors sounds fun ๐
signal sky
i'm still using my original concrete line for all my concrete for building
you never really need more
ornate ridge
ye I dont think realistically I need this much lol
ornate ridge
how much concrete do you make p/m?
cold snow
single mk2 miner without overclock, no clue how much that is
purely for building that is
havent run out of concrete once so far
how far under water can you place those foundations?
signal sky
fuckin, forgot about second monitor and printscreen
cold snow
my railway is still floating atm
fierce ruin
@cold snow -200 meters I believe is the build limit.
fierce ruin
Neat!
ornate ridge
that looks really cool ๐
cold snow
but you can't place while swimming, so wouldnt that be a problem @fierce ruin ?
frosty owl
on my vanilla playthough, Ive been using the "side" clicking method to fill horizontal gaps lol
@ornate ridge Coughs in Smart Foundations
cold snow
didnt know you can clip them inside of foundations?
@ornate ridge those are foundation frames, they are made for that
ornate ridge
emphasis on "vanilla" ๐
cold snow
you can even walk through those frames
frosty owl
Emphasis on "smart"
JK ๐คฃ
ornate ridge
I just find it kinda weird you can clip pipes though em
can you clip lifts though them?
cold snow
yep
signal sky
i have some aesthetic clipping going on
ornate ridge
ooh neat
signal sky
like, i have all my pipes in a trench on the floor
then clip them thru the foundation to the line
ornate ridge
aha xd
signal sky
which is why i have them in "pits" that are sunk into the floor relative to the walking area
signal sky
i dont remember
frosty pawn
the new refinery model is smaller than the old one (new dimensions in brackets)
if you have them side-by-side as close as possible, the ladders will block you from walking in between, but if you climb up a ladder at one end of your row of refineries, you can run across the gaps without having to jump
cold snow
only kinda @frosty pawn. the hitbox is only 21, the texture is 30
wooden pond
someone did a max nuclear build a while ago I think, @wooden pond would know I think (:
@ornate ridge think so yeah but still doesn't beat my 4.45TW >:)
frosty pawn
@hot ginkgo i just saw your manufacturer smart manifold in #screenshots. i recommend putting a manufacturer either side of 4 smart splitters so that each gets half the materials, otherwise the next set of smart splitters will not get materials until the first set begins overflowing
hot ginkgo
Yeah, that's the basics of the manifolds. Its how I build everything.
Well the "overflow" method.
ornate ridge
how do you use smart splitters.. smartly? ๐
I havent found a good reason to use them yet
frosty pawn
the true power of smart splitters is the overflow option, it's very versatile
ornate ridge
I can think of maybe flowing one belt into centralised storage with smart splitters
not sure what else useful application
hot ginkgo
I usen them for non priority production.
frosty pawn
e.g. you have 10 different kinds of items on a belt going into a smart splitter, set one output to a particular type of item, another output to overflow. now your selected type of item will go out of your selected output until it;s filled,
all the other types will go out of overflow, if the selected item output is filled, it will also go out of overflow
ornate ridge
but why would you "poison" a belt with multiple items?
hot ginkgo
ornate ridge
I dont quite understand
frosty pawn
maybe you have a small amount of items that need to travel along distance, or maybe you just take overflow from different kinds of machines and deliver them all somewhere else
hot ginkgo
but why would you "poison" a belt with multiple items?
@ornate ridge
Sometimes it simplifies logistics to one belt.
ornate ridge
hmm
frosty pawn
it's good for fixing a problem after the problem arises, not so much for planning an entire factory around this single game mechanic
ornate ridge
so I could have 1 belt run though all my factories supplying each one?
frosty pawn
yes
ornate ridge
hmm
signal sky
for stuff like manufacture recipes, where you have low number on the input is where it is most useful
frosty pawn
if the total item throughput does not exceed belt speed, you can put whatever kinds of items on it and let smart splitters handle routing
signal sky
but what you described is called a "bus" and is something you see in factorio, but isnt really a thing here
ornate ridge
why is bus bad in satisfactory?
frosty pawn
its not bad, but there are better ways
ornate ridge
because of throughput?
signal sky
too limiting basically
frosty pawn
an example scenario: copper alloy ingot recipe uses exactly twice as much copper as iron. you can put 480 copper and 240 iron on a single belt with a merger, then have a mk5 belt carry this 720/min mixed ore to the foundry building
otherwise you would have a mk4 belt and a mk2 belt
usually this is fine, but sometimes your building is up a cliff (or down a cliff) so with the merged belt you can put all of this on a mk5 lift
wispy cradle
@ornate ridge I use smart splits in my factory outputs,
So I can get the max amount for each belt.
frosty pawn
i havent played factorio but i dont think it has cliffs
ornate ridge
hmm like direct all output though one side only? thats a good point
wispy cradle
No @ornate ridge , I use the overflow + BackPressure.
ornate ridge
whats back pressure?
glacial hemlock
actually, it refers to head lift. And head lift is a non-directional mechanism
wispy cradle
my belt is mk3 (270) and before the smart split I have 240. the machine with lift produces 60.
smart split: left: any; center: overflow
ornate ridge
if you flow multiple sets of items though a belt using smart splitters does it not effectively split down the flow rate? say if you have two types of items flowing through a belt being sorted by a smart splitter doesn't that half the throughput?
wispy cradle
So 30 goes to overflow. and I have a exactly 270 output on the left, after ther merger.
glacial hemlock
wait... now i read it again, you are referring to solid items ๐
ornate ridge
or do items clip through it each other on a belt and take up separate capacity on a belt?
wispy cradle
if you flow multiple sets of items though a belt using smart splitters does it not effectively split down the flow rate? say if you have two types of items flowing through a belt being sorted by a smart splitter doesn't that half the throughput?
@ornate ridge I don't mix items, just garbage to storage
ornate ridge
oh ic
glacial hemlock
@ornate ridge no, items occupy space on a belt regardless if they are of mixed type or same type
ornate ridge
ah so the more I mix the lower the flow per item bascially?
fierce ruin
You can clip belts and their items through each other though.
glacial hemlock
@ornate ridge yes
sand garnet
I think the only reason to really use mixed belts is when you have super low output items
glacial hemlock
@fierce ruin true, but that's using different belts, just placed very close to each other
sand garnet
like turbomotors, HMF, supercomputers etc
glacial hemlock
HMF no, you can reach more than 1k HMF. Turbomotors and SC yes.
sand garnet
you can, but honestly, who realistically does that ๐
I'd argue the majority of players could safely mix that belt with something else
and use smart splitters to separate them later
wispy cradle
10/min HMF is enough for me
frosty pawn
the amount of machines required to fill a mk5 belt with HMF would melt most ppl's computers
ornate ridge
Ive always found it kinda interesting that looking at belts making stuff doesnt tank fps much, are items actually being fully animated when traveling on a belt?
what machine/thing uses up most cpu process?
well not until I get to megabases I guess, then rip fps xD
frosty pawn
Ben said constructors are quite demanding because of the skeletal mesh animation on the arms. Most machines have things like that. Optimisations are on the way. Some machines like the new refinery can have all their animations easily handled by clever material shaders.
nova orchid
^^
abstract copper
Isn't that for gpu though?
frosty pawn
its for everything
nova orchid
CPU is the main bottleneck in most cases
ornate ridge
not sure, is satisfactory more cpu bound right?
frosty pawn
a skeletal mesh animation basically touches all the performance things in your pc
sand garnet
@ornate ridge items on a belt are instanced meshes, which arent heavy on performance
ornate ridge
thats some real magic xD
silent mortar
With the medium settings I have on right now, I can visibly see the cut off between all the items on the belt being animated, and LOD kicking in and saying 'close enough' about a hundred yards away from me.
cedar mica
@ornate ridge items on a belt are instanced meshes, which arent heavy on performance
@sand garnet As long as you dont have a million belts, visible yeah
frosty pawn
@silent mortar that's optimising the animation to save CPU time, not the rendering. When it gets even farther away the meshes get replaced by 2D impostors, that saves GPU time
bleak coral
when I messed with kibitz save, while it definitely maxed my GPU, the CPU was the part stopping smooth gameplay
signal sky
well, thats more cause LODs dont work vertically
frosty pawn
@bleak coral out of curiosity how big is that save file?
bleak coral
I was getting stable 30 - 40 fps, but if I moved too much (especially in his base or other areas with lots of stuff) all 8 of my cores would max out at max boost clock trying to load stuff
signal sky
so youre rendering loads and loads of high poly models in his factory
bleak coral
and then it'd go back
cedar mica
Didnt know the game could max 8 cores
ornate ridge
for my save Im thinking of having all my items being produced in different factories around the map
then centralising a giant storage area, will my fps thank me later?
unsure if storage will be super laggy
bleak coral
it normally only uses mainly 4, with a bit of 6, but it spiked all 8 on when it need to load stuff into memory
frosty pawn
CPU has to calculate production for every machine, power draw too, and where every item is on each belt and in each pipe, then it has to do it all again many times a second because the pipes and belts are transporting stuff and the machines are building things
cedar mica
How laggy storage gets, depends on how you get stuff there
frosty pawn
if all of that is somewhere really far away like 2km away, it can be calculated once a second, drastically improving performance
orchid gulch
Sounds like belts have the same issues as in factorio.
silent mortar
'8 Cores' can be misleading as well, because the size and power of individual cores changes with each new CPU. My eight year old intel 3770 has eight cores. But I'm sure it'll redline well before any new cpu would.
bleak coral
it's a 3700x
orchid gulch
Also this game is multi threaded?
cedar mica
I'm just speaking of threads being active. I'm seeing 2 main and 3-4 others
frosty pawn
@ornate ridge that's a good idea. I generally try to transport as little as possible, building things near the resources that are required
bleak coral
the save is about 17MB btw
frosty pawn
D:
orchid gulch
I'm relatively new and want to make sure that I'm not doing something stupid like building a mostly belt base
abstract copper
Belts are not really a problem
orchid gulch
What is usually?
abstract copper
Tons of stuff
cedar mica
I think belts are the least laggy transport method. But everything is a matter of scale
ornate ridge
power management early game is fun xD
abstract copper
As in literally having tons of stuff placed
bleak coral
belts are a problem if you're close and staring directly at them, but they're fine if you're away from them or looking away
abstract copper
Like a megabase
ornate ridge
sorry trees but I need power ๐
bleak coral
I should clarify, staring in their direction with a ton of belts, a few belts are fine and walls don't help
silent mortar
Because of Josh from Lets Game it Out, there has been a lot of belt optimization. ๐ His belt tornado crippled framerate in an earlier build, then his conveyor belt weave dropped it into a slideshow. :p
orchid gulch
lmao
abstract copper
As a new player don't worry too much about optimization
orchid gulch
trains well optimized then?
ornate ridge
yes for singleplayer, no for multiplayer heck no (glitchy)
cedar mica
Yeah, if you want the game put through its paces, give Josh a call ๐
ornate ridge
has josh shared his save? I'd like to stress test my pc after trying kibb's base lol
ornate ridge
dunno but must be better than my set up cause I get like 20-30fps at his base
bleak coral
I think he has some version of 2080, but idk about his CPU
ornate ridge
note hes increased the object limit on his save, so stability issues? not sure...
cedar mica
Twitch says: Ryzen 9 3950X 16 Core CPU, 32gb RAM, RTX 2080 ti
So decent rig, but not OC
signal sky
kibs gonna need one of them 5950x's to run satisfactory
bleak coral
decent lol, that's all high-end consumer components
cedar mica
He hit the limit of what he can build in one spot, I think
orchid gulch
looks like 5950x isnt that much of a improvement?
cedar mica
decent lol, that's all high-end consumer components
@bleak coral Yes, but this game just wants raw single core performance. Heck a 5GHz+ 4 core, would probably be the best choice...
orchid gulch
so this game is a single core game?
signal sky
5950x can do 5ghz single core
bleak coral
I think the main problem, the loading causing frame drops, can't even be solved by hardware
cedar mica
2 main threads, 3-4 lesser threads
orchid gulch
loading is in memory buffer
yeah probably intel would still be better in this game.
fierce ruin
Guys I'm planning a starter iron build making plates rods and screws from a 120/min miner. Is 40 plates 30 rods and 120 screws/min a good mix?
orchid gulch
thought my ryzen would do "better" in these games ๐ฆ
signal sky
well, the new one's probably do, since they have great single core perf now
idk about the old ones
orchid gulch
mine does pretty well
bleak coral
3000 series is fine, only a bit worse than equivalent intel stuff
orchid gulch
only issue when launched was they boosted really hard and made tons of heat.
bleak coral
intel runs way more power hungry and hot, which is why I went with ryzen
orchid gulch
intel idles muuuuch better
cedar mica
Lets not make this into a #off-topic-tech
orchid gulch
oh didn't see that there's one of those.
bleak coral
Ok here's what I see when running kibitz save, plus the spike when I load a new area
cedar mica
I'm calling that 6 threads + whatever background stuff is running
signal sky
so basically just set core affinity in task manager, then go into ryzen master and OC 2 cores a lot
bleak coral
yeah, me too, but the spike corresponds to the load, so it definitely uses everything on load
cedar mica
Makes sense. As you are transfering stuff to RAM, VRAM and off HDD/SDD/M2 at the same time
bleak coral
also I totally misread this and forgot about hyperthreading(or whatever the generic term is), it's definitely just 2 cores + part 1 other
nope just running SF
and discord and steam obv, steam isn't downloading anything
cedar mica
I dont see the 10-20% load on all cores, being the game. If the game could do that, it would have spread the load more even
bleak coral
oh I don't think it is either, I think just that spike is, and I'm not sure the game is even asking for that so much as that's what the CPU does on big data transfers
cedar mica
As I said, when you are loading new data, you are moving a lot of stuff in and out of RAM and VRAM. So CPU can probably use all cores for that
fierce ruin
Guys I'm planning a starter iron build making plates rods and screws from a 120/min miner. Is 40 plates 30 rods and 120 screws/min a good mix?
cedar mica
40 plates is 60 ore. 30 rods is 30 ore. Thats leave 30 ore for screws, which probably end up as 120.
As for if thats a good mix, it depends on what you need it for
signal sky
you dont really need screws to be stockpiled, as theyre just an intermediate part, but 40 plates and 30 rods is a good enough for building stuffs
fierce ruin
I know but I'm just asking if I should produce more of anything or less of anything
Ok thx
cedar mica
you dont really need screws to be stockpiled, as theyre just an intermediate part,
@signal sky You do sort of early game. Some tech, equipments and buildings want screws
fierce ruin
Yea I will need lots of screws to make reinforced plates at the beginning
Because I need lots of 120 belts for the building and for my other buildings
signal sky
oh yea, forgot the shop needs them
fierce ruin
Until I get a permanent building for reinforced plates
cedar mica
6 stacks of screws in a chest, is all you need to store and even that might be too much
Which you can get, going hard drive hunting
fierce ruin
So should I not even bother making them in that building then?
cedar mica
Its easier to make them right next to the assemblers, yeah
bleak coral
they raise the ppm of what you're putting on the belt, so they're not good for moving between factories/buildings
if you move them as rods or ingots, and then turn them into screws on site, you can fit a lot more on one belt
fierce ruin
I won't be moving them to other production lines
cedar mica
The only time I make screws somewhere else, are if I make them all mass for multiple production lines. Easier to count production, on large scale, if you have different buildings/floors for things
fierce ruin
But I just don't know what else to do with the 120 ore/min
cedar mica
You need a lot for plates, just making reinforced plates. 30/m per assembler
bleak coral
I use mk2 belts sparingly and split them into 60ppm or less belts so I can use mk1s until I can get to mk3s which are much easier to make en masse
fierce ruin
20-15?
cedar mica
From 120 ore, 60 plates and 30 rods, should be good for storage
fierce ruin
Or should I not use all 120 ore and just split it to another building
cedar mica
You are swimming in Iron on the map, if you just take a look around
bleak coral
60 plates and 30 rods is good, you end up using a lot of plates for walls and both are used in a lot of basic logistics stuff
like supports
fierce ruin
Ok thx
Ill round up to 6 constructors for a neater building
I'm trying a new build style where I put smelting on one floor constructing on another and assembly on the third
bleak coral
and like CrazyOdd said if you just get 6+ stacks of screws that'll set you for life, cause they're only used as an intermediary material or in equipment and for the awesome shop
fierce ruin
Normally I just do a full production line on each floor
But then you can't get the neat underfeeding with glass floors that I like to do
hi
Thx guys
bleak coral
yeah I like that style too, helps keep your thoughts organized as well as the aesthetics like you mentioned
fierce ruin
I can post the build when I finish if u guys want to see it
hot ginkgo
@sand garnet Did you ever test the 1200mยณ junction thing?
sand garnet
oh yeah no i havent
hot ginkgo
I'm sure it'll work the same. But confirmation is always nice.
sand garnet
good reminder
hot ginkgo
Just a toilet thought.
sand garnet
this works at least
bottom is with this setup:
so yeah, junctions allow for 1200 as long as it's 2x600
brought it back down to 1 pipe and it shows 602?
@hot ginkgo ^
bleak coral
that's with one pipe into the buffer?
sand garnet
the bottom one is, yes
I had 2 connected, then removed one
for a moment it dipped to like 550 per min
and then it slowly crawled up to 602
mk2 pipe
hot ginkgo
In regards to the 602 with on pioe.
I've seen that before with the mk1s before the update.
bleak coral
weird, wonder if it's display error, the pipes have an about 600upm limit rather than absolute limit
hot ginkgo
301 going into a buffer.
sand garnet
yeah the 301
bleak coral
due to math errors
sand garnet
yeah exactly, probably
hot ginkgo
Most definitely im guessing.
sand garnet
doesnt affect anything really
bleak coral
first thought is rounding errors from floats, but the numbers seem a little small for that
hot ginkgo
Also, something interesting. Demanding 300 liquids in a mk1 pipe will starve the end machines in a manifold.
But switching to a mk2 pipes will fix it.
sand garnet
how so
hot ginkgo
I dont know. But as I was setting up my turbofuel plant woth the new machines I was filling and emptying tanks to fill the packaging loop. Some of the HOR become starved. Even though I was feeding 300 oil down the pipe.
signal sky
I have several and it doesn't starve the ends?
hot ginkgo
I had that issue previous to the update as well.
I had to split the pipe at the start of the manifold and run it down to the end.
Currently with the mk2 pipes 9 frequently see the flow rate jump up to 350.
And fall back down to aroune280.
sand garnet
sounds like you dont know how to play the game bando 
hot ginkgo
๐ซ
hot ginkgo
Not net, but the fluctuations i think caused the issue. I've run lots of manifolds at less then 300 and never had trouble.
Even the oil extractor was going idle at times.
None of it made any sense to me.
sand garnet
yeah I've seen WILD fluctuations
cedar mica
Might be that pipes dont react to manafold, the same way belts do. As in you need extra to make sure pipes are always flowing correct
sand garnet
made a post about it too https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/5f9c22b56077ad3d714c85ed
it has some vids in it
hot ginkgo
Thats what I'm assuming, CrazyOdd, needs to allow fluctuations.
Because as soon as I switched to the mk2 pipes this time. I started seeing some huge fluctions in flow.
sand garnet
in my vid it drops all the way down to like 55/60
its insane
I think it's related to how fluid stuff has cycles like pipes too
so flowrate fluctuates heavily when it gets a new load of fluid
cedar mica
I think it has to do with how pipes behave, when they are half filled vs filled
hot ginkgo
I'm guessing in order to maintain a 300 demand. You need greater then 300 flow to maintain fluid levels.
I'll try to get a video of it tonight and post it somewhere.
sand garnet
what if you looped the end back to the beginning of the manifold
hot ginkgo
Thats what I had done before mk2 pipes. Didn't completely fix it. The pipes from the extractor still limited me. But I no longer had machines barely running.
I noticed it while stress testing my very first power plant. I was seeing gens shutting down. Kept tracing it fsrther and farther back.
Stress testing as in using all 22GW.
bleak coral
does it make a difference if all the pipes are full? like if you let the manifold fill before turning on the machines
hot ginkgo
It didn't unfortunately.
sand garnet
different conversation lol
sand garnet
this is about how a full pipe doesnt seem to want to fill a manifold with exactly enough machines in Bando's game
unique rampart
ah
regal mantle
is there a consensus as to what is the best recipe for canisters? Specifically having in mind a packaged turbofuel production line
wind spade
considering that you only make a limited amount of them, it's one-time cost and that means they are basically free (since we have infinite resources) and therefore it doesn't matter how you make them
or do you sink them for some reason?
sand garnet
out of curiousity, why do you want to package turbofuel
wind spade
oh you want packaged turbofuel?
hot ginkgo
I package turbo fuel. Does that make we weird?
wind spade
packaging turbofuel is fine. The question is what you do with it if not unpackage and burn in fuel gens
hot ginkgo
Make a convulted system to feed any vehicles you have with turbofuel.
wind spade
batteries
hot ginkgo
I fully plan on automating those at some point.
Just for my personal driving.
@regal mantle In all seriousness I just use the resin, and siphon off a small amount of water and both fuels with overflow pipe set ups. Its usually only for personal use. So production rates don't really matter.
regal mantle
Yeah, thinking about automated vehicles
But you're right, I should go for batteries
and/or trains LoL
(actually I have another use case that involved having modded the game to have higher item stacks and belt speed, but having a hardcoded throughput limit on pipes, packaging becomes the best transportation throughputwise. I'd rather set up a packaging manufactoru than having to lay down dozens of pipes at once).
bleak coral
If it's going into some non-looping system, coated-iron canisters is technically the most resource efficient
Plus they get made at the same rate as pacakagers work
Oh and while you can technically transport more liquid in less space while packaging it, it will use way more power even considering pumps
glacial hemlock
Just like rl bottled water, the cost of packaging is what the consumers pay for.
worthy copper
packaged turbofuel is cheap compared to batteries imo, possibly more cost effective and its at a point where its so slot-efficient anyway?
wind spade
@worthy copper hardly. Same stack size, but 3 times lower energy value for packaged turbofuel (not to mention the fact that you have to also somehow make the canisters)
batteries are the best non-nuclear fuel source for vehicles
inputs for 10 batteries/min
hot ginkgo
Well, that's barely anything.
wind spade
inputs for 30 turbofuel/min (same energy value/min)
worthy copper
batteries are definitely the most slot efficient fuel source (aside from fuel rods but thats shenanigans) but im thinking at the values you get from a stack of turbofuel you can basically go around the map on one stack anyway
as far as production goes, canisters can be made off of the resin derived from the hor step, use some recycled plastic if you really need to. If you already are doing turbofuel power and don't plan on using large amounts of vehicles for automation, forking some turbofuel off for packaging is very simple comparatively
wind spade
well my answer was mostly for the "slot-efficiency" point
batteries are just best in terms of slot-efficiency
worthy copper
yeah what i was saying was that going from 2000MJ/item to 6000MJ/item really doesn't make a difference unless youre doing something like big hard drive treks
wind spade
and since you don't want vehicles in lategame anyway except for personal transport, I'd argue they are the best choice
worthy copper
cause ive done trips with an explorer fueled with turbofuel and i dont think i ever needed more than 2 stacks
hot ginkgo
@wind spade your old radiation tool is still valid correct?
wind spade
yeah they haven't changed any mechanics regarding that
bleak coral
if all you want is batteries for personal use, you barely need 1ppm batteries
cause let's say you use the explorer to get around, it takes 1hr 51m ish to burn through them all
so even if you were slamming on the peddle the whole time, you'd still need only about 0.89 ppm batteries to fuel back up when you're done
you probably don't even need a dedicated factory, just have one or two manufacturers in your central storage making batteries from storage and you'll have a couple stacks by the time you swing back around
ornate ridge
if I split a pipe from an oil extractor into say 10 separate pipes, can I expect all 10 pipes to receive 30m3 equally? or will I need to do some sort of injected manifold with pipe/pumps?
sand garnet
yes you can as long as they're on the same height
sand garnet
just manifold it
sand garnet
it shouldโข๏ธ work
glacial hemlock
I see tm there
sand garnet
yeah Bando made a manifold like that but his last machine struggled
hot ginkgo
I never got a chance to play. But im going to recreate the circumstances and get it recorded sometime soon.
frosty pawn
@ornate ridge put some foundations down and then snap junctions to them, then connect the pipes. put machines on the same foundations. that will ensure everything is level and none of the pipes are starved. (if you are using packagers to package the oil, you will need to put them on lowered foundations to keep the pipes level)
ornate ridge
is oil extractor headlift 2 walls or 3 walls? icr
sand garnet
2.5
every machine has 10m headlift
but I guess that since the connector is off the ground, that counts as higher
so 3 walls
frosty pawn
some buildings have headlift proportional to how full they are (light blue lines in this picture)
oil extractor = 3 walls up from the center of the pipe
if you are working with very precise requirements, i recommend putting the oil extractor on foundations
remember if the center of the horizontal section of the pipe is exactly 3 walls up at the top from the bottom, the pipe can only fill half way
sand garnet
im not sure we would even need to add the buffers in there
as they dont give any headlift themselves, they're just... large pipes
frosty pawn
yeah, but it's nice to know with confirmation that they don't work like other fluid buildings
worthy copper
it also does imply something that is incorrect about them, and it's that they'd 'reset' headlift
frosty pawn
oh, yeah, that's an important distinction
worthy copper
cause if you put a buffer at the bottom of a dip in the pipe such that the actual headlift is over the buffer, it wont affect the headlift at all
frosty pawn
but it will slow down the time it takes for fluid to reach its destination when the fluid source is first enabled if the pipe system was empty
sand garnet
buffers dont affect headlift in general, there is no 'conditional headlift'
the only conditional part about them is how far they can fill up
frosty pawn
if the buffer is level with the pipes and a building is waiting for fluid at the top of the buffer, it will have to wait for the buffer to fill
signal sky
I guess you could say that buffers preserve headlift
Cause some people might assume at first that since it isnt a /pipe/ it resets it like a building would
frosty pawn
yeah... but all it takes is to say "buffers work like pipes, except hey have a much higher capacity so they will take longer to fill and empty"
you can just add an extra pipe sticking out somewhere to provide the benefit of a buffer without the slowness
trail maple
might not be the place to ask, but after planning out a "one of everything" megafactory these are the ceiling/maximum number of all the buildings I'll need. this is excluding all trains, belts, foundations etc. but I'm concerned I'll run into the object limit right now. what is that limit/would I be close to hitting it?
night jay
First off, how much of everything are you producing per minute? Are you trying to maximize or just reach that 1 per minute benchmark?
trail maple
"one of everything" in the sense of making anything I'd need to make anything else. e.g. dont need uranium pellets to make anything so dont need to make it
night jay
And to actually answer you're question, you can have roughly 2.16 million separate entities in the game with it's current engine, but you can finnick with the code to increase it, but be careful.
A machine uses several entities
People have met the limit in regular vanilla games
trail maple
ah got it. I've seen others mess with the code but I'll try to stay away from that right now
night jay
I strongly recommend not messing with thee code, good choice. Could seriously mess up game files or even lose them completely.
trail maple
yup, thanks
night jay
I think I've made the most efficient factory for the base recipe for nobelisks. It uses the compacted coal method, as well as solid steel ingots. I don't think I can minimize consumption anymore, and 12 is almost the perfect ratio to keep the resources required at nice numbers
frosty pawn
@trail maple this is the list of items i will use (in the distant future) for making my big storage room. arranged into a somewhat sensible layout. all the items used for buildings in the first section, equipment in the last section, a place to dump my inventory and have it automatically sorted, and a container for any items that don't belong in these containers
hot ginkgo
The settings to change max entities are only needed when you get massive
The settings I believe are in the wiki as well.
.ini file.
trail maple
@frosty pawn I like that a lot! there's some things that I forgot to add to the production like the inhaler, but some things like the spiked rebar seem redundant if ya got the rifle already
glacial hemlock
@frosty pawn screws, turbomotor and crystal oscillators are missing. Also, where are the nuts
frosty pawn
@trail maple yeah, that's true. This is just a theoretical "one of everything, except the useless things" layout
trail maple
nice
frosty pawn
Screws are not used for any buildings except the MAM and awesome shop i think, and i can always just carry 1 stack of screws that i found at crash sites. Nut and other food obvs won't fill a container, so will go in the Misc. bin
glacial hemlock
Nobelisk too
frosty pawn
oh crap nobelisk! i definitely need a container for that
trail maple
for some reason I thought screws were needed in power poles lmao
glacial hemlock
Irl, yes
night jay
It's kind of weird how you really dont need t hold screws on you for regular builds, and how they are almost only used for automated crafting
signal sky
would really just overcomplicate buildings imo
night jay
trrue
obsidian sluice
lol I just realized this odd balance of ratios
2x 780 bauxite can be converted to 2971.42 aluminum scrap and 445.71 silica using EAS
which feeds into 15.33 smelters and 3.18 foundries
15 smelters and 3 foundries produce exactly 780 ingots/min, which fits a Mk 5 belt perfectly
so the remaining 20ish ingots can be overflowed onto a separate belt
night jay
damn
obsidian sluice
it's utterly pointless math, but it pleases the dopamine-starved gremlin that lives in my brain ๐
night jay
lmao same, but those extra 20ish ingots angers it more lmao
obsidian sluice
yeah I'm renovating my aluminum refinery currently, and I have my foundries and smelters arranged next to each other, so I can't take advantage of this
but this means that it would be more pleasing to have them vertically arranged, so that I can collect 780 ingots onto a single belt, and leave the underclocked smelter and foundry at the end of each row, so that their output can be collected by a single belt
night jay
@obsidian sluice send pictures if you ever build it 
oblique hollow
to clarify @sand garnet , yes, buffers dont cancel head lift. Though until the buffer is full, it wont fully transmit the applied head lift
Its just a simple condition:
Is the buffer full? The applied head lift will be transmitted through it
Is it only partially full? Then it applies a head lift proportional to: (current liquid volume / maximum capacity) * Buffer height
If the buffer is less than 10 % full, then it transmits less than 1 m of head lift. (only applies the the small one, big one applies 1.2 m at 10 %)
muted crypt
People have met the limit in regular vanilla games
@night jay mainly Klepdar, lol
cold snow
whats roughly the max amount of steel ingots one could need? 6500/min?
sand garnet
anywhere from 1 to max
muted crypt
it's a number, I know that much
bleak coral
there's no good answer to that question cause it depends on what and how much you're making
cold snow
well nothing so far with it, planning on upgrading my 3 pure iron/coal node location to mk3 miners and mk5 belts
wind spade
plan based on your goals
don't just make random amount of steel and then hope it'll be enough
chilly stream
10-15 turbo motors/min is a good goal.
minor cradle
the way i see it is you can always make more machines and are therefore limited by node purity and mk.5 belts i personally try to simply maximize nodes if making steel for example 780 divides to 17.33 foundries which is not bad for early game however my fav is using solid steel ingot alternate though you have to smelt the iron into ingots and i like to opt into the pure ingot alternate and here a 780 line of iron will require 22.28 refineries and will produce 1,448.2 ingots/min as such coal will be the limit requiring 2 nodes for every 36.2 foundries producing 2,172 steel ingots/min if my math is off plz lmk 
fierce ruin
hey so whats the longest distance you would use a belt before a train would be the better choice of transportation
wind spade
that's a weird question
train is better choice pretty much anytime but not because of distance, but because of throughput
(if you have the extra power available)
fierce ruin
I just dont wanna switch to trains but it looks like im gonna have to
fierce ruin
Yeah just got this 2.5k belt going
and apparently at a certain distance all that belt lag shit starts to kick in
wind spade
and there's really no drawback in using belts compared to trains, only the lag is
but if you're asking about that, it varies from pc to pc
fierce ruin
got an alright pc (Ryzen 3600 & RX 5700 XT) someone told me though that at really long distances the actual amount of resources getting transported per min gets all fucky like and isn't consistent
been trying to figure out if thats true or not
wind spade
well that also depends on your fps
and belts are acting weird pretty much anytime when the throughput is around their max
again, different people have different experience
fierce ruin
hmm alright guess I'll just have to see for myself
man this 13.5k wire setup is killing me I swear
ornate ridge
If I was going to plan out centralised storage for every single item in the game (maybe bar radioactive stuff) how many tiles base should I start with to start the mega storage facility?
Im thinking desert would be best but not sure
Plan would be to use trains to transport I think, altho maybe belts too? Hmm
hot ginkgo
@ornate ridge https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/771021310024482816/unknown-27.png
Here's my current storage area. 50ish containers. A 3 and a 6 car train collect all produced items and dump them on the left. Its all merged into one belt. Then programmable and smart splitters get them all here they need to go. If the bin is full ot goes into the sink.
Its maybe 20x20ish?
ornate ridge
Hmm awesome looks great
remote crater
is that normal that my overclocked fuel generator only generates 303.5 MW power instead of the target 375MW?
icy warren
@remote crater Remember the generators scale to produce only what you need. Is your capacity 375MW greater than what is was before you placed it, because if so then it has the ability to produce 375 MW when you need it.
hot ginkgo
The UI on overclocked gens is sorta bugged.
Overclocking is not linear with power. So a 250% overclock only gets about 200% power.
Which means the 303.5 you see is correct. And that's what it'll make.
icy warren
Hence why I overclock the oil extractors rather than the fuel generators.
remote crater
oke thanks
night jay
@remote crater Try to avoid overclocking anything other than miners and extractors. Just build more of the producing buildings to account for more raw resources coming in.
pure locust
that is such a good idea why didnt I think of that (Im not being sarcastic)
hot ginkgo
Production buildings also have non linear power increase. 250% overclock uses ~300% power.
hot ginkgo
So like 440% more power.
wooden pond
don't even dare doing it to power plants
your ficsit approved badge to work on the planet will be taken away if you do so
pure locust
don't even dare doing it to power plants
@wooden pond but what if I dont have enough materials to make another power plant?
pure locust
well yeah but its so much work
oblique hollow
so is everything
oblique hollow
You got two choice in this game, most of the time:
- Build half-assed things that might break later
- Plan your things and invest some effort
oblique hollow
good choice
pure locust
good
ornate ridge
nono mash crafting bench for easy items, handy tip: bind spacebar to craft (management warns excessive crafting may cause craft bench to melt into molten slag) 
though it is easier to automate things ๐
night jay
i have a heavy portable battery that I can place on my spacebar to handcraft somethings and then I can go get some food, come back and its done crafting
eezy
ornate ridge
you can also do the semi lazy way, of having storage containers that feed into assembers/manufacturers and just slap items into them lol
not a bad idea early game xD
glacial hemlock
@ornate ridge spacebar is used for craft by default (both LMB or spacebar are accepted)
ornate ridge
oops meant mash xD
sand garnet
just put your phone on spacebar if you insist on manual crafting
gentle cloud
I use my utility knife on my lmb lol
ornate ridge
wish I could automate crafting of beacons lol
I need more tractors xD
or can I ๐
hidden frigate
not only can you, but you will have to at some point!
hot ginkgo
Gotta wait for manufacturers though.
gentle cloud
Well waiting wonโt get you far you must unlock them lol
night jay
i use my portable battery so that I can use my phone lmao
frosty owl
wish I could automate crafting of beacons lol
@ornate ridge Be patient ๐
||You probably need to get to a higher tier||
humble wren
si
bleak coral
@sand garnet if I'm understanding buffers correctly they block headlift up to it's current fill height and then once full no headlift is blocked
is that right?
bleak coral
thanks, that's clears it up nicely
worthy copper
So '20 meter' headlift pumps still get full output up to 22m right? (full yellow region of the indicator)
so would the mk2 pumps be good all the way up to 55m?
bleak coral
mcgalleon did some tests and found that, yes, it goes safely up to 55m
I'm not sure how those test are done and if they're measuring with the pump indicator or with walls
cause after some of my own tests I no longer trust the pump headlift measurement
I got them to change by placing stuff in different orders but putting the pumps in the same spot
worthy copper
yoo they fixed the head lift exploit
either that or the setup i did doesnt properly engage it
bleak coral
oooooh the day of reckoning has come
peak basalt
If your gonna manually craft a bunch of the same item, I would craft one by hand, then hold enter and alt+tab
You can tab back in, just don't move your mouse over your inventory or it'll stop crafting.
cedar mica
As long as you have power, its better to put a machine to work
peak basalt
Ya, but it sounded like they don't have manufacturers yet to automate beacons.
frosty owl
Does 111.2 sound like a plausible number for the maximum amount of turbomotors/minute one can make?
The calculator takes forever to compile the required production, so I don't have anything to compare the result to right now
cedar mica
156/m by last count, as that was the limit with Bauxite. Might be a little less, depending on decimals
wispy cradle
cedar mica
The one I have setup shows 7800.03/m Bauxite needed, while you can only mine 7800. Hence why 155-156, depending on decimals
frosty owl
Can't tell where exactly I did wrong, but I made a mistake calculating. Thanks
cedar mica
Probably missed an alt
frosty owl
Not really, I'm pretty sure it's a "*" I made into a "/" somewhere. It was correct when I just redid it
hot ginkgo
@frosty owl what calculator are you using thay takes forever to show the results?
frosty owl
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#2;50302;0|gameLayer|hardDrives
Probably just my PC taking forever to iterate all the possibilities (is it bad to keep the planner's maximum level to 7/8?)
@hot ginkgo
hot ginkgo
Nope. Thats just that website it has trouble.
Check the pins in this channel and use greenys site.
cedar mica
Oh yeah, the SCIM takes a while to generate the result. Not sure its 100% working atm
hot ginkgo
Its a known issue because it shows each and every machine.
Versus most others just give you a 23.5x for the number if machines needed.
cedar mica
Yeah, but SCIM is also the only one that calculate power usage
frosty owl
Yeah, but SCIM is also the only one that calculate power usage
@cedar mica I like the graphics better xD
Thanks. Though a bit less fancy-looking, the other one works fine
wind spade
power is coming soon to my tool
The one I have setup shows 7800.03/m Bauxite needed, while you can only mine 7800. Hence why 155-156, depending on decimals
@cedar mica I believe it's 156 exactly and the 0.03 extra bauxite is just rounding somewhere
cedar mica
Be it a rounding error or not, it still not guarantied you hit 156, as that requires a 100% efficient production line. Best I have managed on that scale is 99%
wind spade
you can just overbuild every step and you have 100%
fierce ruin
easy, just slap a portable miner down and create a bot that moves it into the line via container
silent mortar
So, use a bot scripting tool to..... automate your FISCIT employee?
oblique hollow
@bleak coral since you were wondering how i test: i use both methods. I have a Pump before the vertical segment and then i have a buffer at the top of a bunch of walls. Since buffers gradually apply a head lfit proportional to their fill height, i can compare the calculated value of the head lift vs the one that the pump shows. Most of the time, they are the same.
Of course, a pump cant show more than 22 / 55 m
but for anything below their limit, it is pretty much identical.
hearty maple
The machines have taken over. and my favorite craft by hand reciepe is the alien organs to bio mass.
So clearly meant for when you are running out of gas in you vehicle and need to get where you are going
wispy cradle
I think that in early game you should just build with no foundation, until you start an actual factory
just a thinking.
night jay
That's sorta how it works already. you have to unlock foundations, and until you do that and have a stable income of concrete, you can't really start building factories @wispy cradle
muted crypt
@hearty maple i personally quite like the carapace to biomass recipe for that purpose.... I save the organs for inhalers
hearty maple
ahhhh nice!
river night
i have a small biofuel plant that I just feed with stuff occasionally, the silly thing that I noticed if you optimize for space used in your vehicle, solid biofuel is better then packaged liquid biofuel, since liquid only stacks to 100
hot ginkgo
Most people never even make liquid bio. Because you have to manually feed it. And by the time you can make it. You have much better automated options.
river night
well i had this entire thing setup and a cargo container full of solid bio fuel, so i thought it would be cool to make it liquid, but then it turned out to be worse ๐
hot ginkgo
You could always torture challenge your self and do a biofuel only run. Using biocoal then liquid biofuel into fuel gens.
14 carapces a minute will fully feed 6GW.
river night
i dont think the map has enough hogs for that ๐
signal sky
14 carapces a min is a lot of hog bashing
hot ginkgo
Otherwise it was like 2 or 3 thousand leaves a minute. I figured the carapce was a little easier then getting that many leaves.
hearty maple
It's a good sink for leaves and wood as you clear cut trees and wood to make way for the factory.
hot ginkgo
All things considered im sure its doable if you're out collecting whenever you can.
Or with multiple people
signal sky
Having multiple people def made the early game power management a lot easier
hot ginkgo
worthy copper
biocoal is still more efficient than liquid biofuel btw
hot ginkgo
But you can't feed coal into a fuel gen.
signal sky
Isn't just using charcoal better than biocoal
worthy copper
biocoal can be fed with things that isnt wood
but yeah charcoal is even more efficient
hot ginkgo
I'm only rambling about using a fuel gen.
worthy copper
fuel gens are only good for turbofuel ๐
or more correctly, turbofuel is the only fuel worthy of a generator
signal sky
dissembling wood into its subatomic particles and reassembling in hydrogen for fission when
coffeestain please
devout flax
What is the liquid fuel minimum for fuel gens?
sand garnet
as much as your factory needs
devout flax
What is the minimum a fuel gen needs to run?
sand garnet
as much as your factory needs
@sand garnet
it scales along with the powerdraw of your factory
hot ginkgo
15 per minute is what it needs using regular fuel. If you where at 100%.
So there isn't a minimum.
broken jungle
The real way to run bio-only is to underclock machines.
As a redditor pointed out, the exponential power draw works in reverse as well, using exponentially less power when underclocked.
dusky dust
I wonder how little power you could draw and still be producing, say, 10 Turbomotors/min
Clock every production machine down to like 1%
And how much room that would take
Could save on resource extraction a bit if you're willing to belt in materials from all over the place, too
This sounds like the worst challenge ever
signal sky
at 1% clock speed, just take would it would take normally and multiply by 0.00063
except ig for miners and shit
dusky dust
Heh, so satisfactory-calculator.com says 7,802MW for 10 turbomotor/min, using all alts and mk3 miners on pure; if 0.00063's the right scale there, you'd be looking at under 5MW. :D
Though the mining/extracting would add to that quite a bit, comparatively.
Still, I'd be highly amused to see 10 turbomotor/min coming out of like just a few biomass burners
I wonder if rounding errors would start being problematic on those scales
The only real question is: who's insane enough to put down literally 100x the machines just to see it in action?
I nominate Klepdar
A good fit for their power-starved map
signal sky
tho idk if a machine can use less than .1 MW
dusky dust
Oh, good point
bleak coral
klepdar overclocked their water extractors for the nuclear power plants, not sure placing 100x more machines than they have to is their thing
dusky dust
heh, yeah, I know, I just liked the juxtaposition of Effectively Infinite Power Supply with Frugality To The Point Of Absurdity
bleak coral
seeing like 1GW / 1200GW would be pretty funny haha
cold snow
did anyone here do single aluminium plant that uses all the bauxite on the map?
thinking about doing one on the eastern part of the map. single train per node in the mid/west part and the eastern nodes via belts
hearty maple
I over clock the water extractors too. Too much of a pain otherwise. Plus it useful for when you have limited water space, like a pond.
night jay
How much bauxite would that be @cold snow
cold snow
i probably don't either, it's just for fun
night jay
True lmao
But Iโm just tryna think about everything else Iโd have to get along with it to make use of all that bauxite
cold snow
well afterwards you could replace all trains with mk5 belts ๐
bleak coral
you can do that with waaay less alclad sheets than 2476.19 ppm
night jay
How much storage do industrial bins have?
cunning horizon
48 stacks
night jay
Alclad sheets stack by 100 right?
muted crypt
yes
cunning horizon
Weird question iโve been thinking about for a while, tbh not even sure itโs all that useful for building at scale but itโs interesting
night jay
2300 alclad sheets a minute is roughly 38 a second
I donโt need 38 alclad sheets a second lmao
bleak coral
@cold snow where'd you get ~2228 alclad sheets/min as max? I got more than that
cunning horizon
If you have n conveyor belts producing items at variable rates, how could you split/merge them so that the items are evenly distributed amongst n outputs?
night jay
@cunning horizon depends on the number coming in. Itโs a different splitter/merger set up for any number of items coming in to any number of outputs going out
bleak coral
I've seen a balancer image thrown around before, but honestly balancers aren't really needed because you can avoid variable rates and manifolds
might be needed on a train station double output, but that's the only thing I can think of
cold snow
@cold snow where'd you get ~2228 alclad sheets/min as max? I got more than that
@bleak coral oh right, seems like i forgot one alt recipe, 2476/min would be the max
cunning horizon
Yeah trains are what Im designing around rn, if I import all my raw materials from various stations around the map itโs easier logistically to funnel them all through one train station and sort the items.
night jay
Ah yes, 41 alclad sheets a second
cunning horizon
Problem with the sorter is now you have a bunch of unevenly distributed belts, which can hurt efficiency for consumers of each resource
signal sky
@cunning horizon what i have done, and I stole from Kibitz, is hook the inputs up to Industrial storage containers, hook all those together in a chain, so that you have a loop of belts from the top slots, and the bottom slots are the outputs
Like, I have 10 belts of water coming into a factory, and I need that to go to 8 lines of 240, and 1 line of 80. That will feed into 10 Industrial Storages, with 9 of those having lines outputting into the factory
but with all of them connected to each other
acts as a buffer and distributer of items as needed, if you just allow everything to back up like you would with a manifold
signal sky
requires a lot of start up time, cause you have to fill how every many storages
Diluted packaged fuel tho
And I'm going to build another two like that to balance sulfur and coal for compacted coal, since I just have 8 lines there, and so many different inputs that I dont wanna even think about trying to balance
It's easy to set up, much faster than the whole like ratio load balancing stuff
cold snow
@bleak coral what are you doing with all those alclad sheets?
bleak coral
oh I'm not, I'm only making ~100ppm for personal use, I just ran the numbers in a calculator real quick
the only other thing to do with bauxite though besides just using the sheets is turbo motor production
and that's bottlenecked by bauxite, so you just put some aside for building mk5 belts, and then send the rest to turbo motor production
there's nothing else to do with it
cold snow
too bad greeny's calculator doesn't give you the total power consumption
muted crypt
he's working on that in the next few days
bleak coral
oh that soon! cool guess he got some free time to do it
muted crypt
he mentioned to me in DMs when I was discussing something else that it'd be in the next few days
muted crypt
depends entirely on power grid needs
cold snow
well i'm still having my starting factory + turbofuel plant. currently i'm building a railway to connect things and then i'm going to do some copper, iron, steel, oil processing spaced out
muted crypt
in my largest save I've done to date I'm running everything on like maybe 8 GW of power
and my turbofuel was only 225 crude/min so it was able to handle double that
bleak coral
man what am I doing, I'm already running like 10 GW and planning on adding another 8-9GW
rustic stream
hey all, quick dumb questions, if I connect one input to an industrial storage container, and connect two outputs, does it essentially act as splitter?
peak basalt
I dont think its random
I think its whichever was hooked up first.
If you have 60 going in, and two 30 belts going out, then ya, it would act as a splitter. But if you have 60 going in and two 60 belts coming out, then 1 belt gets nearly all of it.
bleak coral
it's whichever was hooked up first, and then it can switch on reload but with no discernable pattern
muted crypt
okay, so, hear me out on this: a factory designed entirely for maximizing concrete production
bleak coral
I'd still run out ๐คฃ
hot ginkgo
@peak basalt nah, its random. Been that way for a while.
Saving and loading changes it randomly as well.
peak basalt
I dont think its ever been random for me.
bleak coral
it's a moot point cause it randomly switches on load, but my testing does show it favors the output you built a belt on first until you reload the save
cunning horizon
can you even get this much limestone
bleak coral
yes, mk3 miners and all nodes
bleak coral
we got mk2 pipes, someday the dream of mk6 belts will come true
muted crypt
unfortunately we cannot invest all of the limestone into this
nor can we invest all of the crude oil
because you'd probably have to use nuclear power just to handle the whole system
muted crypt
less than a third of the world's oil ๐
so the rest can be dedicated to turbofuel
just under 58.5 mk5 belts of concrete per minute
which is the point equivalent of like 1.15 turbomotors per minute ๐
bleak coral
man diluted loop and recycled recipes are neat, but sure do make the chart messy
I don't even know what you'd do to not make it messy looking
bleak coral
there's some fun rounding errors happening though, look at the amount of limestone it's using
muted crypt
I think ๐ค
muted crypt
then we just need something like clusterio (server plugin for factorio) for satisfactory
and I just send you all of this concrete ๐
bleak coral
I feel like setting this up on someone's save without telling them is an act of war
muted crypt
oh no, this would be on my save
and I'd be able to connect my save to yours via the internet
so you'd be shipped 45.6k concrete/min
bleak coral
I just look up and there's a literal moon of concrete coming at me ๐
muted crypt
"OH NO HE'S DONE"
bleak coral
"Finally enough concrete!"
muted crypt
the only way you could ever possibly run out would be like
using area actions over the entire buildable reach of the map
bleak coral
I mean it takes 60,000 concrete to cover a 100x100 area, so with area action and some fast clicking it is actually feasable to use more than 45.6k concrete / min
which is very silly
lament saddle
Are they only used for miner mk3?
cedar mica
Atm. Tier 8 will probably change that
lament saddle
Iโm รber excited for update
bleak coral
I could see something needing turbomotors and supercomputers in tier 8
no idea what the machine would do though
manufacturer but two of the inputs are for liquids?
lament saddle
You know for how lowkey expensive the fuel invested in a nuclear reactor, the reactor itself is really cheap
A centrifuge?
That seems really cool
Oooooo maybe fusion power
bleak coral
solids machine with solid byproducts?
though I guess that's a bit weak cause sink goes brrrr
lament saddle
It needs a really common resource, probably coal because itโs pure carbon but could make infinite power
And maybe it would be able to create more items
cedar mica
I can see a manufacturer that needs 6 belts, to make the Superposition Oscillator (1 drop pods wants it)
bleak coral
it'd would be cool if it was something besides a machine with different number and/or kinds of inputs/outputs, but I'm not sure what that would be
fierce ruin
I believe there are 4 pods that need things currently not in the game.
muted crypt
Yes
stoic blade
how many ingots do i need to turn into screws for 50 rotors
wind spade
depends which recipes you will be using
hot ginkgo
@stoic blade https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qCyZkN3t2FOu9eBvRxkW
This is the basics.
No alts.
flat fern
just starting out with nuclear power any tips on a layout or how to go about it?
i.e. how many of each bulding to prep for, most efficient layout, etc
stray garden
There is really no layout, you decide how many plants you want and do math or calculator site and build. Atleast I didn't find any. I'm in progress of building my factory for nuclear rods. 4.2 per minute, it will take me few more days to finish
tawdry copper
@stoic blade https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qCyZkN3t2FOu9eBvRxkW
This is the basics.
@hot ginkgo wow this is a great tool! thanks!
hot ginkgo
Check the pins in this channel for others.
tawdry copper
will do! thanks!
flat fern
thanks man!
twin jacinth
Hey. On paper I created a nuclear setup which is using 5 nuclear plants, each running at 250% clock. Everything is supernice, perfect math, no weird numbers. On wiki there is this strange statement about nuclear powerplants: "When overclocked, Nuclear Power Plants scale differently compared to any other generator buildings; their power exponent is 1/1.321928 instead of 1/1.3. Therefore, at 250% clock speed, they operate 2.00000009951 times as fast, for resource input, waste output and power production.". So t rounded that 2.00000009951 to 2 in my calculations. Will this rounding cause problems? Can I treat 2.00000009951 as 2?
oblique hollow
If you dont run at 100% power capacity, that shouldnt be an issue
twin jacinth
why didnt I think about this. It makes perfect sense. I tend to forget this weird thing that data always considers 100% utilization, but that practically never happens
thanks.. again ๐
twin jacinth
So this is the mentioned "nice" nuclear plan, producing 25.000MW:
Before starting to build this I wanted to post here, maybe somebody discovers big silly mistakes
I drew only the "interesting" part.
deft lichen
that refinery setup is bizzare
the ratio is 3:1 (fresh:recycled)
so have 6 refineries run on fresh acid and 2 on recycled acid, including that produced by themselves
twin jacinth
whats wrong with mine? I could be superwrog as well, but so far I dont see any problems
twin jacinth
yes I saw the picture on wiki
twin jacinth
but I also have this 3:1 setup...? 1 is fed by recycled acid, 3 is by fresh acid
twin jacinth
I want to make my own setup, so not copying others setups, so as I said, there is chance for errors
deft lichen
I misinterpreted the image
weak plinth
cant see a problem with Gabor's setup, except that one acid refinery needs to be on 40%
deft lichen
calculator says this should be only 2.4 refineries
twin jacinth
on 40%? why? ๐ฆ
weak plinth
well 100% is 100 acid per min
twin jacinth
ahhhhhhh, ok, I think I know where the issue is I wrote wrong number on my paper, 1 sec
yeh, the bottom refineries are producing 100 acid on 100% not 60
Thats why Ondar said 2,4 refineries
good point. According to my paper its correct, but my paper was wrong. (I planned it first on paper in oldschool mode)
that mistake is correctable, I mean its possible to generate 240 acid with 3 refineries with nice underclocking, like 100%-100%-40% or with 2 refineries with nice overclocking: 120%-120% so this doesnt ruin the whole plan luckily
or 4 refineries with 60% clock ๐
or 240 with 1% lol
twin jacinth
So the corrected setup:
deft lichen
avoid overclocking factory buildings @twin jacinth
2,4 is best split as 3 refineries at 80%
twin jacinth
whats the problem with it?
hot ginkgo
@twin jacinth its not linear on power draw. 250% overclock uses around 430% power.
Works in the reverse as well. Underclock is substantially less power.
twin jacinth
yeah, I know this
hot ginkgo
Thats why he said to avoid overclocking production.
twin jacinth
oki, I thought, there is also something else to consider
glacial hemlock
yeah, power shard is a limited resources too. And if you overclock everything, you won't have enough power for all your factories, if you somehow managed to max out the resources
slate chasm
Trying to understand the numbers. My Plastic, Rubber and Fuel factory is based on this, https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=P7rGS42tfIscdggTGldj.
1st question: When it says "1.67x Refinery", so is 1 Refinery running at 100% while the other runs at 67%?
2nd question: I built 4 Fuel Generators and have both refineries making Fuel flowing into these. When I look at the efficency of each generator, it is working at around 30-35%. What I'm confused about is, shouldn't they be at 100% or close to it? When I added another generator, the efficency actually when down slightly.
bleak coral
1: yes that's exactly it, you could also split that percentage amount between any number for example 3 at ~56%
2: generators scale to actual consumption, so you're only consuming between 30-35% so that's what it works at
wispy cradle
- yes. 2 the generators work following your eletricity consumption
slate chasm
Oh, perfect that makes even more sense now.
Oh my gosh, I was reviewing all that I could from the wiki and looking over each piece of production equipment to see if I setup something wrong, my expectation was it was going to be like coal. Assuming that was my mistake ๐ . Thank you!
slate chasm
Oh, thanks again. I'm getting a bit number coo-coo, I don't normally work with them very well and am probably causing myself a bit more than usual ๐ต
stoic blade
for some reason my 4 200% coal generators are fully fed with water and coal, and yet they only make 458.5 MW
i feel like something's wrong
hot ginkgo
Power overlocking is not linear.
Part of the display is lying to you.
Somewhere on the interface shows the actual production.
For instance at 250% overclock you're only making around 200% power. Essentially wasting a shard.
signal sky
I wonder if they'll ever change it
hot ginkgo
I hope so. The target MW has been wrong for a while.
signal sky
yea, would be nice if you could get 187.5MW from one coal plant, or 375 from a fuel gen, just to save space for late game stuff when you have endless shards
bleak coral
giving up 3 shards to save space is enough of a cost to me, making it non-linear just makes it confusing
especially when part of the display lies to you
reef ermine
What is the most efficient way to produce computers?
sand garnet
caterium computer recipe
reef ermine
We can't use that one, Caterium is too far away
and we only have Conveyor Mark 3's so far
reef ermine
we can't use long range transport
we've got a copper node right next to it
Does anyone have a network graph program?
maiden dew
play around with the satisfactory calculator site to find which setups/alt recipes/target parts per min suit your project the best and the calculator will visualize everything you'll need. there are very few objective best ways to set up your factory as every player has a different goal in mind.
reef ermine
I tried that, and it did some weird stuff
granite pike
Is it worth using the stone Circuit boards? The idea of using silica is amazing for me, but Iโm not sure if itโs worth it for the copper sheets๏ฟผ๏ฟผ.
bleak coral
I don't think it is resource efficient, but I like it to make circuit boards without oil, like for high-speed connectors
granite pike
Makes complete sense ^^
river night
silicone circuit boards are ok as an alternative since oil is often in odd spots and silica can be decently mass produced, i've used it in my computer factory before
granite pike
Makes sense, itโs well, I am looking to do about 50 supper computers a minute, no oil as I am using every drop on my map for power, till nuclear it seems to be the way
bleak coral
every drop of oil? how much power are you using?
turbofuel is bottlenecked by sulfur, and uses barely more than 1/3rd of the oil of the map when maximised
granite pike
Ah, well, itโs mainly just a challenge ^^ I am just using the rest for normal fuel
granite pike
Yes, of course, itโs maximum oil power ^^
cedar mica
What range would uranium radiation have, when dealing with train wagons?
wind spade
use my old tool to estimate the radiation size ๐
hot ginkgo
cedar mica
So with 4 wagons, I would just feel a tickle, if its 5-10 foundations away
Meaning 10 foundation clearance to any factorys, not dealing with nuclear stuff, is okay for a highway
glacial hemlock
300meters to be safe. Elevate your trains
reef ermine
What is the most efficient way to divide 1 conveyor into 5
glacial hemlock
Manifold. Or balancer if you wish the opposite. Search these words on satisfactory wiki
wind spade
I looked it up and it's 3 spliters and a merger
@reef ermine that doesn't work when the belt you want to split is full
I recommend manifolds, they are easier to build and expand, but if you really want a balancer, you have to be careful with full belts
reef ermine
I don't understand how it being full makes it not work?
wind spade
because the first is a merger, which merges full belt + one other belt
glacial hemlock
Reduced throughput due to feedback
In the wiki page there is a diagram shows how to construct non-limited balancer
reef ermine
I think I get why it doesn't work, but I'm still not 100% sure, but I'll go with the balancer idea I think
Manifold*
So the design I use says it's "Bottlenecked" and I'm not sure why that is, but I see a second design that isn't. Which do I use?
hot ginkgo
For a manifold?
reef ermine
It says Load Balancer
the design I used was a load balancer, which was bottlenecked, the other design for it is not bottlenecked though.
The Left designs
Oh I get why that doesn't work now
Thanks y'all
bleak coral
You can also avoid all this hullabaloo by using clockspeeds. Instead of splitting into 5, divide the clockspeeds between 6 machines. So say if you need 100% output from 5 machines, do 6 machines at 84% and do a simple 6 split
glacial hemlock
That's a big brain move.
reef ermine
What in the world is a manifold
wind spade
manifold:
--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | |
X X X X X
hazy dune
How did you do that little diagram?
bleak coral
you can use
```
```
to create code blocks that will use a monospaced font
you can even specify a programming language for more syntax highlighting
int main(void)
{
std::cout << "hello world" << std::endl;
return 0;
}
When using overflow option on smart splitter say a line requires 720 items p/m and I supply 780 items p/m the overflow output would be 60 items p/m correct?
sand garnet
yes
ornate ridge
Neat
cedar mica
Just to confirm, but this works as a 2:5 splitter? Lift belt, is a 3rd source, thats 1:5 splitting
night narwhal
@cedar mica - how attached to using a perfect balance set up are you?
Cause I'd just say to use a manifold rather than a large splitter.
cedar mica
Nuclear storage, 15 row of bins. So easier with a balancer then manafold
night narwhal
So you want to fill bottom up rather then left to right essentially?
cedar mica
yeah
night narwhal
Hmm ok, splitting to an odd number is always a pain cause you have that feedback loop.
I only ever use these sets ups to balance two or more belts.
So, are you doing 2:5, 1:5 or 3:5?
Satisfactory calculator has a some good designs, although it does look a little bugged atm.
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/balancers
cedar mica
I'm dropping of from 2 stations, aldo 1 is mainly from doggo farm
night narwhal
So 3 to 5 then.
cedar mica
So doggo waste is 1:5, other station is 2:5
night narwhal
What I'd do then (since the 1 from your doggo farm will be rarely used) is split and merge it with the other two. Which it looks you've done already and then just do a 2:5.
cedar mica
This might be a better angle, of current setup
night narwhal
Yeah that's right
It won't be a perfect 2:5 straight away, but in the grand scheme of things it pretty much is.
cedar mica
As long as it fills somewhat even, it should not be an issue
native scroll
How feasible is 60 items per minute for every item?
bleak coral
it's possible, early items it's an easy number but later stuff like turbo motors and heavy modular frames it's a big project
for example turbo motors maxes out with best resource efficiency at 156ppm, so you'd be doing more than 1/3rd the max for the map
wind spade
also you probably don't want every item, since a lot of them are pretty useless
native scroll
I like the Idea of 60ppm for everything
wind spade
like ingots and ores - you don't really want to produce them as you won't use them
native scroll
oh yeah, not those