was introduced with the pipes
#math-and-meta
sand garnet
willow igloo
I want an alternate wall or foundation that uses wood
shadow prairieBOT
You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com
<3 @sand garnet
willow igloo
Heh
I've actually used satisfactory at work, I modelled our warehouse and used various machines to model ideas
sand garnet
as this isnt meta conversation maybe lets continue in #satisfactory
undone flame
sand garnet
meta is 'the best/ most optimal solution in the current state of an experience' as I understand it
noble linden
22GW off one oil node with turbo fuel??
sand garnet
you'll hate refineries in the process
late snow
though its 22.2GW
sand garnet
but it's doable
noble linden
really wish i could find all the alts i needed for turbofuel lol
late snow
my suggestion then is to use https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map
late snow
so you can find all the hard drives
noble linden
lol yea, only when i get bored of getting them with the obj scanner lol
late snow
i went through on a giga trip and got 3/4 of them in 2 trips
noble linden
I hate how many I've found that need super oscillators and quantum computers
late snow
theres 4
noble linden
and I found them all in one trip lmfao
naive ingot
late snow
sorta. i DO have like 14 or 15 extra hard drives, the 4 that i canna get, and every current alt recipe available
but ive been getting off work extra tired, so i havent been playing
glacial hemlock
@noble linden all 4 of them? Nice
noble linden
just extremely unlucky lol
glacial hemlock
Lol, i mean, if you can stay alive while going thru all 4 of them, you are pretty good in survival
Swamp and red jungle
terse prism
I gathered all of the hard drives that didn't require 100+mw of power and supercomputers/turbomotors to get all of my recipes... It took me three trips though and I only had jetpack for the third. having a jetpack is definitely critical
noble linden
Yea. Jetpack and lots of ammo and explosives lol. My engineer looks like rambo when we go out of the base
tawny chasm
jetpack is a big gamechanger π
feral summit
It took me way too long to realize I could just build bio generators at the crash sites
I kept dropping beacons, running back to my grid, then running a line all the way
glacial hemlock
nice you realized
feral summit
I know, right? Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes.
glacial hemlock
haha, as you play, you learn more tips and tricks
bitter tree
I want to double check in my math is correct here.. Start of the Aluminum chain, takes Bauxite and water. It consumes 100 water/min per refinery. If I have 7 Refineries running (70 Bauxite/min with a 480 line, I'd need 490/min for 7 Refineries, but the last one can wait so it doesn't have to run full speed, I am not worried here as when I get Aluminum sheets, I can upgrade the belts to Mk 5 for 780 Bauxite/min to meet the demand of 490/min).
So, it should be consuming 700 water/min for the 7 Refineries, right? Keep note of this.
The Bauxite/Water will produce 80 Alum Solution/minute. So 7 of them will make 560 Alum Solution/minute.
The next Refinery step, can only consume 24 Solution/min. So that means I would need 23.33 Refineries to keep all the Solution going. Lets just say 23 for easier to work with numbers.
Each of the Refineries at this step make 360 Scrap/min and 60 Water/min.
23 Refineries doing 60 Water/min = 1380 Water/min, but I am only consuming 700 Water/min at the start of the line.
Is all my math correct with this aspect?
What do I do with all the extra water? I mean, I can loop the water output back to the start of the line to have 700 of the 1380 consumed per minute, BUT what do I do with the other 680 water/min? (I don't have many alternate recipes unlocked yet.. Was going to go Hard Drive hunting after I got aluminum chain running...)
upbeat tide
Thats my alclad system
Its designed around a single full pipe of alumnia solution as the limiting factor
And thats the logical chart I made to make sense of it
My plan is that 3 of these sets makes a full pipe of byproduct water which I redirect back into the alu aolution refineries as needed
My total byproduct output numbers are based off 9 of these segments, hope that helps
bitter tree
Well, I see if the first chart, you are using Alternate recipes. As I stated, I don't have those.
Therefore, it doesn't help me. I was asking if all my math is correct and ideas on what I can do with all the extra water (if my math is correct).
sand garnet
consider using https://satisfactorytools.com
you can select all the recipes you do have available to you
it will calculate everything accordingly
upbeat tide
I do highly recommend not doing alu until you have the electrode scrap alt at least
You can live without cheap ailica, but its another game changing alt for this process
The pure alu ingot alt is 100% ignorable as it is a severe downgrade.
worthy copper
cheap silica isnt super necessary until very lategame i think
where you start gettign limited by quartz
bitter tree
OK, I will try taking it all down and try it that way..
I was working off trying to push Bauxite as fast as I can, where each Refinery takes 70 Bauxite/min. Guess that is where I went wrong.
upbeat tide
I just found it simpler to balance the system off pipes of alumina solution, and such.
sturdy lagoon
Aluminum demands layered conveyor output
upbeat tide
Exactly. Each of my plan alclad systems uses a mk3 belt for the bauxite feed since it needs 262.5 a min per segment
I dont have pics at hand, but I use a near perfect splitter to get it done as well
Thats my bauxite sorter
Splits an input of 2580 bauxite into 9 belts.
After I took that picture I made a modification so I can use the last 200 ish bauxite not allocated yet in a smaller setup
The full build makes 819 alclad a min
sturdy lagoon
I can log on in a few mins and take a screen of my aluminum interaction with my conveyor bus
It's the same manifold setup. But after 3 refineries the output steps up from tier 5 to tier 6.
You just need to add a manifold on top of a manifold
bitter tree
OK, part of my math fail.. Since I didn't have power hooked up, I thought it was using only 24 Solution/min, where it is actually 240/min.
as the [No Power] window covered up the 0 of the 240
sturdy lagoon
Yeah scrap is a high volume item
Making aluminum demands using aluminum for mk5
I will log and screen my tiered manifold
bitter tree
So 7 Refineries would make 560 Solution/min, and then next step, it consumes 240/min. So I'd need 2.33 Refineries to make scrap, So 2.33 Refineries make 140 water/min. And it consumes 700 water/min at the start.. So that wasn't so bad the way I had it. I just had some math wrong.
I went all wrong when I was thinking it would consume 24 Solution/min rather then 240.
upbeat tide
Yea ill share my build later too. I have a ton of pictures of it in varying stages of development
As I said earlier tho its far easier to setup alu once you have the electrode scrap alt, so you dont have to rebuild.
sturdy lagoon
2 tier accumulator from refineries
2 tiers connecting to main conveyor bus (I planned ahead to allow myself space)
2 tier manifold
the item volume can be intimidating. but it can be handled clean
bitter tree
I am just trying to get everything up and running, even in a limited capacity.
I want to make a mega factory that has everything in it later. But once I get everything running, everything researched and unlocked, I'll go on a mission to get every alt recipe in the game (at the moment).. After that is the mega factory, so since I'd have every alt recipe, I can optimize it as much as possible.
terse prism
Nothing stopping you from building the mega factory and then turning it on later when you have the recipes π
sturdy lagoon
Speaking of... I only got 26 HD yesterday. I am not looking forward to getting the rest.
bitter tree
I've only gotten 4 HDs total. Going to be a big hunt to get them all.
sacred minnow
so we werent the only ones hdd hunting yesterday lol we cleared out the desert for 34, processing them now for diluted fuel
bitter tree
@upbeat tide Thank you for the help with the layout, I now have it up and running.
sacred minnow
nice refinery verios and og kush
sacred minnow
haha yeah 4800mwh from coal just not cutting it anymore lol
upbeat tide
Coal plant meet turbo fuel field
sacred minnow
im too lazy to build that big haha im just going for 4 of these, 2 for the sink
sturdy lagoon
You can consider petroleum coke for a short term option
It's a really simple refinery setup and it gets you started on oil
sacred minnow
π€ havent unlocked turbo fuel yet, lack the power for aluminum atm, maybe well push that and switch to turbo
hot ginkgo
The diluted fuel to turbo is a huge step in power. 22GW with 300 oil. Definitely worth it.
sacred minnow
our base is on gold coast so thats why i was going that route but i havent looked into that option. we do have plenty of rotors. i built an ott mk5 iron factory at mk3, thats what made me lazy haha so much routing
thanks for that tip yea thats way better than 8000mwh per 300 oil
sturdy lagoon
I'm running 20,000mw from coke. Started plastic then switched to rubber for double the HOR. It was a nice simple build
hot ginkgo
Just be aware, 80+ refineries. 150ish fuel gens. Plus the compacted coal set up. Definitely not a small project.
sturdy lagoon
And it's powering my motor production. I'm stockpiling for a large refinery build
My numbers for the HOR-unpackaged fuel is 750 refineries
I just needed something modest to feed the parts requirements
sacred minnow
i mean atm ive got like 2000mwh overhead but alot of my stack overflow has machines off rn so i would def peak above my current cap if i tripped power. that oil is a stopgap since its handy bonus 6k pts in sink a min. def gonna just make 1 now tho then and get turbo fuel and build around that
hot ginkgo
Smart splitters with overflow set so once bins are full all excess goes into a sink. Keeps all your machines running and eliminates power spikes that might trip your grid.
sacred minnow
lol oh man thats a much better idea than using a normal splitter and loosing 50% production lol i just unlocked them and never thought of that! TY!
hot ginkgo
I use dozens of yhem in my storage facility. Two 780 belts feed my storage. With smart splitters sorting into each bin.
sturdy lagoon
I rarely break old build tbh. I just move over and start fresh
I have several ghost towns already
sacred minnow
yeah was jk wed just move
weve talked about it a few times
you guys have inspired me haha, time to build
hot ginkgo
@sacred minnow I dont know if an edited in mention pings, but more inspiration over in #screenshots
sacred minnow
thanks, im debating on where to build now, think ima combine that idea with imkibits setup into 2 or 3 hallways of crates centralized on the map. will prob just tram existing supplies over there and build a megabase
need mroe automation, we have been slacking a lil non that front but catching up
hot ginkgo
The first picture I have in screens is basically exactly that. Organized into consumables, iron/steel, then electronics/oil. All made far off site and brought in on a mixed train.
No production happens at that base. So I built it somewhere I enjoyed looking at.
sacred minnow
yeah were shifting to offsite production, may have a mega base but no mega factories in it, starting to drag the game a bit around our current base with like 400 machines and its not like our rigs are bad
young rover
@hot ginkgo how do you use smart splitters to feed all your stock area with 2 lines ? As soon as one item back up, it block the whole line ?
hot ginkgo
@young rover you set the center output to overflow.
Anything that doesn't match a set output, or has a full output. Goes right down the center.
bitter tree
So after I get my Aluminum setup running, I begin to upgrade all my belts to Mk 5.. I notice some smoke off to the side. It's a crash side. I take the HD back and plug it in.
I get Electrode - Aluminum Scrap ..
young rover
@hot ginkgo can you send me some screen to how you did that ?
hot ginkgo
@young rover
@young rover https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/751887130334199808/unknown-5-1.png
glacial geyser
@hot ginkgo the only problem is when the internal buffer overflows. Do you run the remainder out to a sink all the way through?
rain saffron
What is the ratio for hammer to second (crafting)?
upbeat tide
Seeing as your supposed to be automating ASAP, dunno if anyone has bothered to figure that out.
Also there is a hammer icon on hand craftable items, think that can help you a bit
fresh elm
I am sitting here watching my power grid like a hawk while letting some fuel rods build up
everything that isn't travel network or part of this thing or a pump is turned off right now
fresh elm
even with nothing running but the fuel rods, I'm basically using more power than I have and I'm juggling
vital sandal
That's a bit
fresh elm
at least now I know I can take my time building the reactors
and I will have a little stockpile of fuel rods to start off with
vital sandal
Personally I prefer my method, "oh a power outage?"
Spends 8 hours building a massive coal factory that bumps you from 1000mwβ12k
fresh elm
(I'm basically just filling up the output buffers plus the line going to where the reactors start)
I started this power project on 6/27 π
it occupies the entire dune desert
plus the swamp once I build the reactors
vital sandal
that's a bit
fresh elm
but when all is said and done it will do ~1.2 TW of power
vital sandal
Why
fresh elm
because I can.
vital sandal
Valid
fresh elm
it's the moments like this that scare me:
fresh elm
the power plant in question
vital sandal
1200 hours spent building walls
vital sandal
You might be able to, but I've placed a total of 8 walls in this game
And only ever used foundations as sky bridges
fresh elm
vital sandal
Too clean, not enough spaghetti
fresh elm
this is how I like it π
well, right as soon as I went to check on the progress that's when the circuit tripped
time to let things back up again
glacial hemlock
I just clip the belts everywhere so i don't have to build so much lifts
fresh elm
I like hte way it looks.
visual anchor
how do you fly?
fresh elm
jetpack?
glacial hemlock
@visual anchor have fun! The space building is pretty expensive at start
And there are more than 1 way to fly
visual anchor
cool, thanks π
hard rune
wait how many coal generators can one extractor pump support?
sand garnet
2.66 repeating
if you follow the 3 extractors > 8 generators ( 4 gens per pipe, so 2 pipes ) with 1.5 extractor per pipe, you're good to go
hard rune
okay
sand garnet
upbeat tide
This may explain it better
wind spade
why is there a bridge instead of a connection in top left corner
hard rune
it do
wind spade
also both setups are pretty much identical in efficiency
upbeat tide
Yea they are just a different way to show the info
wind spade
600 MW
upbeat tide
Anyway im gonna be building this, times 4 5800 a min silica when done
wind spade
but yeah, 540 including the extractors (but also you need to include the miners then)
hard rune
no miners have a seperate grid all to themselves
so i can just remove and add things to my will
upbeat tide
Whats a good way to balance a mix of 780/min and 600/min limestone inputs for this? To make 500 a min belts
sand garnet
why not just underclock the second
upbeat tide
Maybe there are 10+ normal limestone nodes not far from the swamps
hard rune
also exactly at what poing does iron become irrelevant
upbeat tide
Either 10 normal nodes underclocked to 500 a min, OR 6 ( 4x780) (2x 600) and over supply with 4320 total
hard rune
my iron factory is just completely dormant and full
upbeat tide
Iron is never irrevelant. Heavy frames, motors, turbo motors, steel, alot of high level processes use iron
hard rune
hm
i do have a line dedicated to rotors and reinforced plates but like the one i had for screws rods and plates is just not doing anything
3 industrial thiccboi storages full of those
upbeat tide
Yea those in late game are intermediate goods mostly. That said you will use tons of em for conveyor belt stackables, walls, etc
hard rune
if you follow the 3 extractors > 8 generators ( 4 gens per pipe, so 2 pipes ) with 1.5 extractor per pipe, you're good to go
@sand garnet so RE: the diagram you sent i just use the 4 way splits to split one of the extractors yes?
sand garnet
yes
and if you want to prevent backflow, just connect some pipeline pumps
100% guarantees success
hard rune
and unless im going above the max head lift there should be no backflow?
hard rune
oh i thought this game had only laminar flow
sand garnet
the first 10m vertically are free
hard rune
hm
sand garnet
after 10m, you need a pipeline pump which pushes water another 20m
hard rune
yes
but does the game recognise the fact that if i take the pipes down 20m and then try to bring them back up i shouldnt need a pump?
sand garnet
yes
upbeat tide
Yes
sand garnet
no, the highest point is what matters
upbeat tide
You can build a water tower
hard rune
yeah
thats how potential energy works
this should work??
theres 3 4 way splits there
upbeat tide
From my dealing with pipe manifold systems, the less complicated it is, the better. That usually means the pipe in a single line and buildings on one or both sides in rows
hard rune
this looks simple enough im just worried about details
like if im exceeding the 10m head lift
if there will be any backflow, all that good stuff
upbeat tide
I build pipes in a lateral line from the pumps and only lift if needed.
A wall ingame is 4m high, you can use those as a rough gague
hard rune
okay i dry tested it and im getting 150 meter cubed per min
slightles less than 180 but i feel a pump can fix that
agile quest
Anyway im gonna be building this, times 4 5800 a min silica when done
@upbeat tide
How the hell are you going to be moving 1400/m
fresh elm
2 belts?
upbeat tide
The end is easy 2 belts with 700 each
And already figured out the limestone. Use 8 normal or pure nodes and clock to 500 a min
Thats the simple breakdown of per section
glass ember
I am new but I know you guys have lots of tables and stuff. Does anyone have a table of points for tickets?
wind spade
wiki has one
violet abyss
Pumps cost 4 engery. There's never not a reason to slap them bitchs all over. and never worry about headlift
wind spade
unless you just don't move liquids around and work where liquids are π
keen hound
so im attempting my first mega base, i have 4 iron miners 480 input split into two rows of 8 smelters but they arent running effiently in the second row, what am i missing? the math makes sense
keen hound
i only have MK2 unlocked
hot ginkgo
8 smelters need 240/min. So those 8 smelters won't feed off a single belt.
keen hound
so with mk2 belts run wahts the most efficent way to run all 4 miners?
hot ginkgo
A single belt will only feed exactly 4 miners. 120/30=4
You can then run a totally separate belt, with more than likely separate nodes, to another set of 4 miners.
keen hound
im not quite following you lol maybe im not ready for something like this lol
hot ginkgo
@keen hound the mk2 belt can only move 120 items per minute.
One smelter needs 30 items per minute.
120 items per belt, divided by 30 items per smelter. Gives you 4 smelters per belt.
cyan tinsel
You can keep the 8 smelters, but split the conveyers and stack them with poles, and use conveyer lifts to bring them down to the 4 smelters not covered by the other belt.
keen hound
that math would work with constructors right?
keen hound
im on the basic starting stuff i think i have two iron ingot lines at 120 and im trying to work on a contstuctor setup to make alot of inventtory of plates, rid and screw
so im thinking 3 constructors per ingot line
cyan tinsel
Well one smelter can only produce 30 a minute
So depending on wether or not you plan on turning it into more things after the constructors you might have to overclock
wind spade
Or just build more
cyan tinsel
Yeah but then you would need more raw iron
wind spade
You would need that even if you overclock
cyan tinsel
True
wind spade
But overclocking uses way more power
cyan tinsel
I think that the setup would work without overclocking you would just need to make two constructors for the iron plates and underclock each to use 5 per minute
Then merge them afterwards
That way you are using all 30 ingots each minute
Wait no
You would have to make two constructors for the iron rods too
And underclock each to use 10 per minute
Then you can put one of them into another constructor to make screws
So each of the 8 smelters is making 4.6 plates per minute
10 rods per minute
And 40 screws per minute
So that totals 36.8 plates per minute
80 rods per minute
And 320 screws per minute
keen hound
okay i think im following that lol
cyan tinsel
And youβre using mark 1 miners, right?
keen hound
correct
cyan tinsel
So that needs 120 MW per minute
keen hound
i have 600MW grid going now so im good on power for a bit
keen hound
since i have two iron lines i could replicate what you said twice right?
cyan tinsel
Yes
hot ginkgo
Just a side note. Your conversation about power up there is a little off. Miners don't take 120 MW to run.
hot ginkgo
Just want to make sure big red doesn't get confused by that.
cyan tinsel
But the smelters and constructors combined with the miners takes a total of 120
Wait no
Iβm bad at math
219 MW
Sorry
I feel like building this now
keen hound
i thank you guys for your help!~
keen hound
no youre fine! this is my first time actually doing the math and trying to run multiple lines adn stuff
cyan tinsel
Yeah the longer it goes on the more of a headache it ends up being
But the satisfaction is 100% worth it
keen hound
im just gonna build and figure it out as i go instead of planning, overplanning hurts my head lol
austere pine
keen hound
haha
hot ginkgo
Literally me all the time now.
glacial hemlock
Miner, belt, buildings... the actual item flow rate is throttled by the slowest part in the process. In your case, it is belt speed
Use more parallel belt
terse prism
I always assume that everything in my chain will only run at 99% efficiency max
Gives a slight margin of error at least for inefficiencies any slight delays anywhere in the chain (or non-integer numbers)
mental garden
I just now starting on oil production
looks like getting a efficient production line going will be worse than it is in factorio
indigo vigil
Ain't that hard, but you do need to be sure that everything keeps flowing. If those by-products aren't being used or sent to the sink, you'll slow down/stop entirely.
dusky rock
hard rune
how many refineries can one oil extractor feed?
just unlocked oil and travelling 2km to harvest
bleak coral
depends on the recipe, and also remember some of those pings on the resource scanner are more than one node
hard rune
yeah i traveled there and found 3 in close proximity
with 2 pings
escaped within and inch of my life and now i wanna go back and make a factory
bleak coral
plan the end product first, that's the only way to know how many you need
hard rune
well plastic and rubber, since those are two i need most rn
also is there a way to construct a self contained system where i dont have to get rid of the residue?
bleak coral
not without alts
hard rune
whats an alt
bleak coral
alternative recipe, you get them from hard drives
hard rune
and well does heavy residue give me AWESOME points?
bleak coral
you can't sink liquids without packaging them
hard rune
ah, i was thinking somewhere along the lines of make fuel/rubber then use that blue thing to make plastic without waste
i can pack them once i have plastic correct?
terse prism
A good way to handle heavy oil residue is to convert it to fuel for generators and also create petrol coke to sink
it's easier to make coke than it is to package because you don't need any containers
bleak coral
without diluted, coke actually gets you more power from heavy oil residue than fuel does
you do need to get water there though
sacred minnow
anyone got any tips for dealing with excess fluids? ima bout to have to pipe off some plastic to make some dump for the sink but it doesnt make sense to me, 11.14 alumina solution refineries, ive only got about 700 water going into it yet my pipes keep filling up and stopping the aluminum electrode production so i have to flush the pipes. I keep removing and turning down water extractors but eventually the pipe keeps filling up
upbeat tide
This is the physical layout of my alu setup 3 of these sets will fill a full pipe of water byproduct
bleak coral
my first thought is you're trying to send more than 300m^3/min through the pipe at some point, so maybe recheck your setup of when your injecting the water back in
sacred minnow
sacred minnow
thats what i built, no pipe exceeds 300, i basically had it originally set at 8 water extractors underclocked to provide 100 to each factory then the 300 output from scrap piped to 3 plants w a pift pump as a flow valve. i have since turned down each water extractor to 90 per minute x6 and still keep filling up
sacred minnow
ive already got the setup so not looking to rebuild it, looking for solutions to pressure buildup that shouldnt even exist
before i just dump all water into a sink lol
btw, thanks for the motivation verios!
bleak coral
is that a screenshot of the setup?
sacred minnow
no thats the turbo fuel factory bando and varios talked me into making
sacred minnow
insane haha i just lose patience after building for several hours and give up making it look nice and just make it work
upbeat tide
this would put all the mk3 belts into perspective
sacred minnow
heres ss of half my aluminum setup
upbeat tide
decided on a splitting method instead of overflow
bleak coral
is that left end all the water from the electrode aluminum refineries?
bleak coral
that question was for hdBattousai
sacred minnow
so i redid teh pumps a lil, 5 pumps to 6 plants (6.80) to test vs 8 for 8 underclocked, scrap water is 297 and pumps back into the first 3 plants then the water extracters are devided equally yet even with them all set to 50% i still backup on water
bleak coral
what are the clockspeeds of the stuff in that picture?
sacred minnow
left = solution refiner x 11.14, right = electrode alum scrap refinery x 9.9
bleak coral
specifically the water extractors
upbeat tide
sacred minnow
alum solution = 11 @ 100% 1 @ 14%, electrode alum scrap 9@ 100% 1 @ 90%. Water extractors 1 is off, 6 @ 50%
upbeat tide
its
- 100/100/100/75 for alumina solution
- 100/100/100/33 alu scrap
sacred minnow
i am way underwatering yet it keeps backing up and stopping p[roduction till i flush pipes the it startes over fills back up until it eventually locks again
im not breaking down the math im doing it all together. 11.14 x 100 should be 1114 water per minute, im only running about 700 and still backing up
hence my confusion haha
upbeat tide
arial view of one of the blocks
bleak coral
yeah I can't see why it's backing up either, I was worried you might be injecting too much water at the front, but I'm not seeing that
sacred minnow
well 50% 6 extractors @ 50% seems to be underwatering it, 6 at 75% overwaters it, so im just tinkering till i find the balance cuz the maths just isnt adding up
yeah im not pro but i know the what the math should be and ive played with it a bit but its just not adding up somewhere
bleak coral
I ended up drawing a diagram for mine to see when I was running low on water, and need to inject more, the pipes are bidirectional, so you do still have to wait for the pipes to fill up before it's all flowing in the right direction
sacred minnow
this was the original setup before i started tinkering with the extractors. Keepin it simple stupid and it just didnt work shrug
bleak coral
I know why, you can't do exactly 117, cause you can't do fractional underclocking
so it probably set it to 98% extractor, which is just a bit more than 117, and then backed up the system
sacred minnow
that was my maths, i under did the extractor
bleak coral
what was it set at 98% or 97%?
bleak coral
well shit, nvm
sacred minnow
that was to err on the safe side so i was underdoing what 0.5 units of water a min?
yeah im stumped lol
bleak coral
yeah I don't see why that wouldn't work
sacred minnow
imabout to pipe all scrap water into the sink or something else and just dedicate 10 water pumps to it lol
sacred minnow
go figure, i got sick of messing with it, reverted to original and changed 1 thing and now it seems to work as intended
bleak coral
haha, who cares why, it works now
sacred minnow
spoke to soon haha yep i give up xD im just gonna turn down each water extractor 1% each time it overfills till it stops haha
upbeat tide
You can always not care about looping byproducts back. You can ship out the water to s pure ingot array or something and simply sink what it makes, or use it, etc just an idea
feral summit
I just had the same issue with my aluminum
Don't have any uphill at all going from the refinery
fresh elm
time to see if the death crate at instagib zone border is lootable
glacial hemlock
It is, the crate will appear at the final point where you leave the ground
worthy copper
I'm pretty sure klepdar walked into it while on a foundation
terse prism
Should be able to get right up to it at the point before instagib though, right?
glacial geyser
It is, the crate will appear at the final point where you leave the ground
@glacial hemlock which is funny when you take a hyper cannon and accidentally overshoot the entire map, the box usually ends up near the entrance to the cannon
bleak coral
well since you're now orbiting the planet, that is the last place you touched the ground π
glacial hemlock
It could be the only place you touch the ground every cycle thereafter when you are really started orbiting.
lean phoenix
Someone please help me. How many foundries and what clock speed do I need to evenly produce 240 steel ingots from a 240 iron node?
A foundry can't be set to make exactly 15 steel...
And dividing 240 by 45 gets me an infinitive so.
worthy copper
you're uhh... you're gonna have to deal with a little decimal
youre sorta at the mercy of the fact that right now clocking only works in whole % points so you cna only change those 0.45 ingots/min of output at a time
lean phoenix
So, 5 foundries at 100% (225) and 1 foundry at 34% (15.3) should produce 240 right? It's just that the last foundry will be trying to make .3 and running out of iron
worthy copper
yep
buoyant arch
hi all I'm studying discrete math and integral calculus to get the most out of my satisfactory experience
is there any quick sandbox app for sketching out a factory before implementing in the actual game
lean phoenix
buoyant arch
you goat @lean phoenix
wind spade
lean phoenix
That might be the one. I can't remember which one of them had the thing where you select what you want to make and it shows you a flow-chart of the machines you'll need./
wind spade
well both of them
my tool groups machines together and shows "20 constructors making screws" for example and the other one shows 20 separate constructors, which make the setup way bigger and sometimes hard to read
worthy copper
pretty sure 156 turbomotors/min would bring the other one to its knees
wind spade
even 10 TMs make it load in 3 minutes on my pc
noble linden
whats the advantage of the turbofuel recipe over turbo heavy fuel? just the fact you can go straight from heavy oil residue to turbofuel? (far less steps/power savings)
wind spade
turbo heavy fuel is simpler I guess, but with normal turbofuel you can get way more TF
noble linden
this is true, especially with that diluted packaged fuel lol
worthy copper
turbofuel is also more efficient with your compacted coal
glacial geyser
800m^3/min turbofuel from 300 crude with alts and diluted?
bleak coral
I think the only time heavy turbo fuel is better than regular turbo fuel, is if you have heavy oil residue alt but not diluted fuel
upbeat tide
Diluted fuel method vs
Best version of heavy turbo fuel
I make 2666.66m3 turbofuel using the diluted packaged fuel method
- 1200m3 oil
- 2133.33 coal
- 2133.33 sulfur
- 3200m3 water
If I wanted to make the same amount using the turbo heavy fuel alt:
Sure, its alot simpler, but alot more oil and compacted coal used
glacial geyser
violet abyss
why?
dull bolt
Why not.
glacial geyser
for nuclear waste
noble linden
@upbeat tide what program or site do you make those diagrams in?
bleak coral
there's a few in the pins, I don't think the one from the screenshots up there is, I don't know which one that is
I personally use https://satisfactorytools.com/
hot ginkgo
That site lacks a share function of any capacity like greenys. Its nice because it displays things very clean and organized.
upbeat tide
I guess question is answered π
noble linden
Just adding it to my satisfactory bookmarks with tools and calculator lol
foggy ferry
will a pure iron node with a normal coal node be able to produce enough with mk1 miners for 3 steel beam constructors?
i have two pure iron nodes and three normal nodes so im just asking if it will work
wet trench
In answer to your question about constructors Galactic, if you're doing coke steel ingot or solid steel ingots 3 foundaries are enough for 3 constructors
wet trench
Then you'll fall short
bleak coral
foggy ferry
Oh ok
bleak coral
you can set limits on what you'll use, and the recipes you have, and it can figure out the max if you set it to maximize
wet trench
Normal you'll make 45 ingots per minute and steal beams need 60
wet trench
That's for one constructor making steel beams
and you're going to be way short on coal
For 2 constructors, let alone 3
foggy ferry
as long as my three foundries are getting enough then i can be maximized with no resource waste?
i have another coal line
so if i merge it into my manifold in the separations it should work right?
on mk.2 belts
wet trench
So pure iron with an MK1 is going to get you 120 iron/m, and a normal coal will get you 60 coal/m. Steel is 45 iron and coal a minute producing 45 steel/min. With normal recipes to run 3 constructors you need at least another impure iron node and at least another normal coal node
wet trench
If you can do some exploring to get some hard drives, alternative recipes make things so much better...usually
Solid Steel is 2 iron ingots and 2 coal= 3 steel, still 45/min on the input but it outputs 60/min
foggy ferry
yes ive noticed
hot ginkgo
@wet trench 33% increase. Turns 480 input materials into 600 ingots. Smelting the iron is a tiny step to get that bonus.
foggy ferry
im just trying to get mk2 miners and mk3 belts
hot ginkgo
Mk3 belts in my opinion are one of the easiest to make. Well worth the small effort.
And large rates per machines. Especially compared to mk2 and mk4.
foggy ferry
Yep
umbral bay
Is there a website with a collection of the blueprints everyone sends around?
wind spade
there's no blueprint system ingame, so probably not
upbeat tide
The cloaest βblueprintsβ is the Area Action modβs copy and paste function, but its finiky
upbeat tide
Nope closest is stuff like that
umbral bay
Fair enough, thank you
upbeat tide
Closest is physical or logical topologies
keen patio
and even that one is kinda.. basic, not very well laid out.
umbral bay
Yeah ofc, I just can't seem to find ones that work for what I want exactly
upbeat tide
Logical topologies like this are best
umbral bay
Yeah I like those, is there a website for those?
keen patio
keen patio
^ all of these are on the welcome page here in discord.
@upbeat tide just FYI, your 2nd link there just fowards to https://www.satisfactorytools.com/
umbral bay
I didn't know these are what people meant by calculators, appreciate the help
keen patio
For the most part these are technically 'Production chain calculators', but its shortened to Calculators.
I wish there were good layout calculators (eg showing splitter/merger, belt lines, etc..., but the one that exist is.. unreadable in large setups.
upbeat tide
Ooh oopso
Problem with physical layout planners is that they are unbearable. Best to design it yourself
Like this is a custom NEAR physical layout for my alclad plant
glacial hemlock
@keen patio if you want some pre-calculated diagrams, wiki has a handful of them at many item page
keen patio
@glacial hemlock I looked at that, it seemed to just be small setups for early game, and how to do 1 to X 'load balancing' splitter setups.
glacial hemlock
True, those are tutorials anyway. You probably going to build much bigger so use those external calculators would be recommended
silver lark
Ok so I started to do the math but Iβm lazy (had to do it by hand because of over clocking my miners) 6mk2 impure nodes with 3 power cells each
The finished product is modular frames
I did some math and figured out that with the 900 iron a min can run 18.75 machines
I know I need 30 smelters
fierce ruin
anyone know how much coal 6 coal power plants take a min when they are on 100%
keen patio
normal coal = 15/min x6
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/buildings/coal-generator
fierce ruin
thank you
sturdy lagoon
Ms paint blueprint warm my heart
upbeat tide
?
sturdy lagoon
You don't like them?
hot ginkgo
Ms paint or bust.
brave flare
shadow pasture
whats a good software for making base plan grids?
idle zinc
is there a list of the best alternate recipes for every item?
keen patio
if someone finds good programs for layouts, or a good instructional video on how to make them... cause I can't draw lines for shit by mouse, but Id love to be able to work with some templates and copy paste my way to victory >.>
umbral bay
@keen patio Satisgraphtory is the best website ive found, it even optimizes for you
keen patio
I did give that one a shot but its very clunky to use it feels π¦
umbral bay
I like it a lot
glacial hemlock
@idle zinc wiki
noble linden
will someone double check my math?
300 oil (plus however much compacted coal and water) can turn into 666.67 Turbofuel which can then fuel 148 fuel generators for an energy production of 22,200MW
lament aurora
1-2-3? 
sand garnet
honestly, I doubt you'll use any of them lol
lament aurora
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
sand garnet
1 is a bit pointless, 2 is a waste of caterium and 3 has a better alternative in the form of pure iron ingot
sand garnet
so I would personally just go 'eh, better luck next time' and pick a random recipe
fresh timber
You could restart the game and that would reset the hardrive recipies
sand garnet
it doesnt
fresh timber
No? did they remove it?
sand garnet
you need to reload a save from before you enter the hard drive into the MAM and start research if you want different results
once scanning starts, the recipes are locked in for that hard drive.
fresh timber
I tried it once and it worked, but it was while ago.
fresh timber
Yeah
sturdy lagoon
Wow
lament aurora
Wow
sturdy lagoon
You either have all the good ones already. Or you are getting screwed
I guess alloy? If you have both alloy recipes and run both it's the same as smelting both just a little better
Still not better than pure. But easier to build
shadow gull
I'd go bolted frame, removes the additional pipes needed so it streamlines the process
sturdy lagoon
I still use my very first automated build for frames. Idk I hardly ever need them
sand garnet
I personally like steeled frame, but also steel rotor
sturdy lagoon
I have 3 train stations full of frames lol
sand garnet
makes HMF super easy to create
cursive umbra
Any thoughts on how best to leverage power cost and weighted material cost to get a "value" on an item? Similar to what is in the Satisfactory Alternate Recipe spreadsheet, I'm calculating MJ/unit cost and Material cost/unit (weighted on resource availability), but want to create a unified score. I've been leaning towards just adding the two values. Thoughts?
sand garnet
https://satisfactorytools.com does exactly that
i dont think it cares about power cost
but weighted material cost is a think
@wind spade maybe you can join the conversation
hot ginkgo
Hes mentioned wanting to do it before.
sturdy lagoon
Would be nice. As some recipes take very little energy. Others take a lot
wind spade
weighted costs are already used and power not yet
you can't have a single value that covers both energy cost and resource cost
in theory you could pick one power source (probably nuclear) and convert power cost through this to resource cost, but that would produce weird results imo
wind spade
well it's simply not possible
cursive umbra
Yeah, I mean - we've chatted a bit about this before by looking into the net value of a power stream and then potentially using the Net% power as a factor.
sturdy lagoon
Divide the resource cost by energy cost per minute?
Of course different energy sources have their own efficiency. But that is another topic
cursive umbra
So, here's what I'm trying to accomplish with my calculations. I want to reverse engineer an optimal (not THE optimal as I'm not that egotistical - but I'm working on it) layout. I'm looking at what are the best alternate recipes (which I'm getting some slightly different values than the Alternate spreadsheet with my calculations). Then I'm trying to determine the best use of each resource.
sturdy lagoon
Idk I probably shouldn't make any suggestions right now. My head is not in it right now
wind spade
@cursive umbra depends on what "best" alt recipe means. My tool picks the combination that leads to lowest raw resource consumption (based on max map limits)
resources are weighted, so twice as common resource has half the value of the other resource
cursive umbra
That's how I'm weighting as well
wind spade
then you can simply put what you want to produce into my tool and it'll give you the result π
cursive umbra
So, my challenge is determining what I would want to put in your tool - figuring out what's the most efficient use of resources and the greatest value. I'm in a work meeting - so I'll get back to this later.
wind spade
but you can just select all recipes, select the item you want to produce and don't have to care at all about the values, the tool does it for you π
bleak coral
And there's not a "best" use of resources, it's mostly subjective what your end product ppm should be
Beyond making what you need for elevator and personal building use, it's all just to make the parts that fast
Unless you have a less nebulous goal than "best", like most awesome points per second
worthy copper
Btw for maxing points - Iβve done the math and nuclear is the most awesome point-efficient source of power once you account for the βcrafting valueβ of coal and oil
Pulls about 10MJ/point compared to 3-5 for coal/turbofuel (given coal goes through so many crafting steps to make a turbomotor or adaptive control unit)
wind spade
I'm yet to add sink points to the tool, but when I do, we'll see what's the best way to max out sink points on the map π
worthy copper
Iβm pretty sure it involves maxing turbos+fuel rods, then either/and supercomputers and adaptive control units
ACUs are interesting in that they use heavy modular frames, which are basically the endpoint for excess iron/coal/limestone
wind spade
well... you never know π
worthy copper
I think the only thing I havenβt checked is the point value of coal when crafted up to heavy modular frames/acus
Cause it got up to like 96 pts per coal for turbomotor a
Turbofuels already definitively less point efficient than nuclear. Youβd rather package and sink it
fresh elm
while nuclear IS a lot of points to sink
it caps at 7m / minute
and takes a LONG freaking time to set up
I think turbomotors may be easier to do
and def give you more points if you try to max it out
(I mean, the math can't help but say that)
bleak coral
they're not saying to sink nuclear, they're talking about what to use to power the turbomotor factory
fresh elm
ohhhh
I have no clue how point efficient nuclear is vs turbofuel
I can tell you it takes a LOT of resources to max out
worthy copper
Iβd expect nuclear rods to be worth maxing just to use the uranium on the map
fresh elm
well, maxing nuclear means you never worry about power again
worthy copper
The question is if itβs a better use of material for sinking than something else post-turbomotors thatβs able to use all the material
Like quickwire into rods vs supercomputers
worthy copper
Yeah thereβs a bit of math to it, have to subtract out the uranium pellet points cause thatβs definitely worth doing
fresh elm
hrmm
I wonder if I have enough power to do that
while I finish
I doubt it.
while my nuclear is still mid-rebuild:
I have a little bit of a power deficit
late snow
huh. are you doing turbo fuel without diluted fuel?
fresh elm
I have packaged diluted fuel
worthy copper
1502 shards... doggo farm at work
late snow
thats about half what i make. i guess you arent maxing the gens?
fresh elm
I don't have a massive turbofuel installation
late snow
ah.
late snow
oh, that explains a little
oh wait, i looked at your numbers wrong
i saw the 11GW and was like... wtf?
fresh elm
oh, no
I have my entire world turned off
that's my idle power
(travel tubes, trains, water pumps)
if you're curious about how much stuff you can have in a 24 mb save file:
azure kayak
ok just a quick question how do you get those maps
azure kayak
thank you
fresh elm
my base is also highly vertical.
late snow
cursive umbra
@wind spade yeah, i've been looking at adding the sink points as well to do a resource cost per sink point to determine the most efficient items to sink
late snow
im in the process of rebuilting my main factory to take advantage of all of hte pure recipes
cursive umbra
Frankly, i'm just overanalyzing all of this - but that's part of the fun for me
fresh elm
note: it's 25x the power consumption for 2x the ingots.
late snow
also, my save file is only 2.5mb
wind spade
well most efficient item to sink is always the item that has highest amount of steps
azure kayak
no shit sherlock
fresh elm
@wind spade ehhhh, that prob isnt' exactly true. there are a lot of recipes that combine things weirdly
cursive umbra
well, i wouldn't think that's 100% accurate
azure kayak
thats pretty logic
wind spade
every non-alt recipe doubles the point value of all of it's ingredients
fresh elm
like rubber cables prob isnt' going to give you more points π
wind spade
"non-alt recipe"
fresh elm
let's play the "how many times does my game crash before I can load my save file" game
late snow
every time?
fresh elm
my vote is 4.
cursive umbra
Hey - greeny, what value do you put on water in your calculations?
fresh elm
I'm on 2 now
wind spade
water is zero
fresh elm
thing about using water in your math - it's expensive to use in terms of power.
and power costs resources
cursive umbra
I've seen that in other calcs, but I struggle with that because it's not free. It costs power
wind spade
you can always disable water π
fresh elm
my decision w/ my nuclear rebuild to use pure recipes for everything...
cursive umbra
Yep. That's why I was doing the weighted resources and power as a factor in trying to come up with a value/score.
wind spade
and power costs can't be assigned a single numerical value combined with resource cost
fresh elm
and that's also true
using water for something like caterium / quartz to stretch is still worthwhile, even if the math looks funny
cursive umbra
well, you can give it a MJ/unit "cost" - you just don't have the resource value for the cost of producing that MJ
fresh elm
(because you have to take some other non-tangibles into consideration like the desire to continue building factories)
cursive umbra
it's 10 MJ/unit of water
fresh elm
not necessarily - you may have to pump it. it'll be variable
dont' assume everything is on a flat plane at water table
cursive umbra
Good point - however, i'm just starting with that assumption to get the initial calculations
I don't want to measure value purely on the MJ/unit cost though because that ignores the weighting of the resources to create the item as well. Hence, my initial dilemma
wind spade
it's 10 MJ/unit of water
@cursive umbra that's assuming no over/underclocking and no pumps
and you also can't assign a value like this to other resources, so you still don't have any value that can be assigned to every item
cursive umbra
Agreed, but that's to develop a baseline. Variations on that can be added in. Right now, I'm starting with a 100% assumption.
wind spade
still the value is nice to know, but useless if you're comparing other resources
wind spade
you can't assign MJ/unit to any resource other than water
cursive umbra
How can't I? I add up the MJ/unit in all of the components + MJ/unit of the machine assembling to component.
Gives me a total MJ/unit.
cursive umbra
So, I pick the "best" recipe based on value - before this, it was solely on the resource weighting - and set that as the value whenever that component is used.
wind spade
what about multi-product recipes?
cursive umbra
I'm taking an end game perspective on this, so I have the luxury of not having to serve lots of people like your site does. I'm assuming all recipes are unlocked, all tiers unlocked, etc...
Easy - I started from the bottom of the resource tree. Start with the ores. What do they produce, then what are those used in - step by step.
Figure out the optimal at the bottom and work up.
wind spade
still - you have no way of assigning a MJ value with multiproduct recipes
you can only assign a MJ value to a recipe tree
not to a single item
cursive umbra
That's only true if I'm worrying about variability. In this case, I'm not. I figure out the best recipe where there are multiples and that is set as the value for that item. I calculate the resource cost and MJ/unit for every recipe.
Prior to this discussion, I was only using resource cost to determine "best"
wind spade
again, you haven't answered my question - what about multiproduct recipes?
cursive umbra
Give me an example.
azure kayak
super motors
worthy copper
Refinery recipes namely
azure kayak
steel
wind spade
HOR alternate. Produces polymer resin and HOR
cursive umbra
Oh .... oh, sorry
I was completely misunderstanding what you were asking. You're referring to multiple outputs. Yeah, I hadn't figured out how I was going to handle the byproducts.
worthy copper
The most comprehensible way is to coarse-grain it so that the secondary outputs get merged back into a primary output, like the hor-diluted-recycled chain
cursive umbra
I thought you were referring to products that had multiple components, which could have multiple alt recipes, which themselves could be affected by alt recipes within themselves. Yeah - definitely not perfect science.
worthy copper
I think thatβs currently possible for all of the main recipe chains? Except turbofuel
wind spade
also, you said you assign a MJ to an item. What if the best way to produce some item has multiple recipes that produce the same item? namely e.g. plastic production - uses both Residual plastic and Alt: Recycled plastic
how do you assign a MJ value to plastic, if it's produced with two different recipes?
worthy copper
Not even the right residual recipe :p
cursive umbra
However, the way I've currently handled things like HOR alt recipes is to figure it both ways, with each being the "primary" product, but it's ignoring the benefit of the byproduct.
wind spade
well yeah, should be residual rubber
but the point still stands
your approach is flawed unfortunately. And I'm not saying this because I want to be right, I'm saying this because I went the same way as you did and I got stuck on the same problems that I'm giving you right now
You can't score recipes alone, you always need to score the whole branch.
Especially if you introduce stuff like resource limitations
cursive umbra
Just parroting back - what you're illustrating is that I'm ignoring that there could be opportunity costs by not recognizing the potential of "leftover" resources. If that explanation makes any sense. You may have a preferred method of creating plastic, but that chain may also offer an additional method of producing plastic that would be a missed opportunity cost if you ignored it.
worthy copper
Ooh like how the radio control unit alt is less point-efficient on its own (it gives less than 2x input points as output points) but itβs worth using because of turbomotor
cursive umbra
And I'm not taking any offense at all - I came looking for the dialog and appreciate the insight. For clarification - are you referring to that picture as an example of a branch?
wind spade
no, I'm just following what you said:
I pick the best recipe resource-wise and use that for MJ value
which you can't do in the above illustrated plastic/rubber production, because the best branch resource-wise contains two recipes making rubber/plastic, not one
cursive umbra
Yeah. I figured I would likely run into some of those scenarios when I started implementing, but honestly - I've almost got myself in some analysis paralysis which is why I was using this spreadsheet to help me reverse engineer my aspirational state
(greeny's thinking) "Dude, just use my damn tool! I already do what you're wanting!!"
wind spade
basically, you have two options:
- go for the "rate every item (or recipe) separately", but that would be highly inaccurate because of the fact that you need to ignore some stuff, e.g. as illustrated above
- go for the "rate the whole branch" (yes, the whole setup from raw resources to final product), which is more complex and probably better done by machine than a person, but way more accurate and it's what I'm doing in my tools
since we're in #math-and-meta and you seem to be aiming for the most accurate results, I'm trying to show you why the other approach is better than what you're trying to do right now
cursive umbra
Yep. I'm just chuckling to myself because I can imagine you're thoughts being - "Yep, I told you. I've been there. I did what you're trying to do. Skip the pain."
*your .... glad this isn't #english-and-meta
fuck me - i was right the first time. god i need lunch. lol
wind spade
well not really. It's more like "I've been there, I've sunk hundreds of hours into this, let's try to help this person so they don't have to do the same"
weary ravine
wind spade
wind spade
anyway, if you want to go through the "rate items separately", go for it. I'm not gonna stop you. I'm just trying to help π
cursive umbra
Lol. I know. I appreciate it. I do.
wind spade
unfortunately I can't help you with rating the recipes separately, because I would have to do compromises and that's pretty subjective thing imo
but feel free to reach to me if you want to discuss something π
cursive umbra
Yep - that's why I come here.
Curious - how are you picking which recipes to use in a branch when there are multiple options?
wind spade
simple answer is - Linear programming
if you want the complex answer, I'd have to write that down xD
cursive umbra
I'll start with the simple and come back if I have questions.
wind spade
wikipedia has a pretty good article about LP - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming
late snow
hmm. if you go and do the maximum nuclear option for power and get the 1.2tw of power, how many turbo motors can you make/m
with the reamaining resources
late snow
true, probably sink overflow
but make rods as if you were going to use 1.2TW to simplify
late snow
really? interesting.
wind spade
as TMs are capped due to bauxite and that's not used for fuel rods
late snow
thats interesting.
wind spade
yeah, just tried with the reduced resources, still 156
late snow
huh sounds like you end up having a boatload of resources left
glacial geyser
This is what LP does when applied to real world models: https://youtu.be/gn4nRCC9TwQ
wind spade
uhh, I don't think that's linear programming, that's neural networks iirc
glacial geyser
It is neural networks but the LP models apply to shortest/most efficient pathing
wind spade
I may be mixing stuff together, but I thought that's just because of the neural network's function that calculates how good the result is?
fitness function
glacial geyser
I think it ties in together. Math only works one way but you can have multiple maths to get to the same outcome. Itβs just that a neural network is heuristic
Itβs more or less statistical application of the same principles. Wether you call it βconfidenceβ or βfitnessβ
Itβs the same intent
wind spade
not an expert in AI and neural networks, but fitness/confidence is just a number returned by a function iirc and that doesn't have anything to do with linear programming (optimizing set of inequalities)
glacial geyser
I mean that the LP models apply before the confidence value is returned. And usually is applied multiple times with varying degrees of input variation
Because every decision and action has the potential to change the next confidence score of a given function it has to rerun it over and over and over
Itβs like imagine plotting a shortest path course and you begin to move but then an obstacle moves
So you have to rerun it to make sure you wonβt hit that obstacle
wind spade
isn't that what the neural network solves?
glacial geyser
A neural network has N inputs to a single output
wind spade
the character moves through the course and detects moving stuff and tries to avoid them
single or multiple outputs
wind spade
also probably #off-topic-tech π
sonic aurora
somehow my calculations dont sum up. i have 9 refineries producing 18,8mΒ³ turbofuel/min (169,2mΒ³ total), have 38 fuelgenerators burning 4,5mΒ³/min each (171mΒ³ total) but my 2 industrial fluid buffers are getting filled quite fast... where is the error? i cant find it
sonic aurora
aaah, thats the error, thanks
swift robin
omg that running is hilarious
near fractal
So, quick question, how much copper do you guys use in late game? Im building a megafactory and would be good to know how much is needed
sand garnet
at least 2 π
glacial hemlock
@near fractal just provide 8 belts of copper and another 4 belts of copper sheets (which also use more copper) would be pretty good.
near fractal
yes but how much a minute?
glacial hemlock
A belt is 780/min, in case if you don't know
glacial hemlock
Who don't use mk5 belts in the late game? Lol
wind spade
It all depends on what you want to produce in endgame
upbeat tide
I personally dont like to use mk5 everywere. For example if im building a manifold and each machine needs 15 of each input then ill use a mk1 belt to connect the manifold to the machine.
young rover
there is NO point in using something else then the MK5 belts
wind spade
@upbeat tide you know you don't get any speedup from mk1 belts in manifolds?
wind spade
fair, just saying
fiery dagger
@near fractal why?
hot ginkgo
I'm to lazy for multiple belts. Always my max belt. The way I buid my manifolds it would slow me down considerably.
open geyser
@upbeat tide you know you don't get any speedup from mk1 belts in manifolds?
@wind spade could you explain, I've also been doing mk1 from the manifold to speed up the startup without being to prime. If that's no quicker then it's not intuitive as to why.
upbeat tide
I dont do it for startup. I startup a manifold by not connecting output and letting all the machines fill
near fractal
Eh, i like use mk1 s cuz don't need to transport more i/m its cheaper and its a way to limit the speed
near fractal
Eh, thats my way of doing things i guess
open geyser
I guess it's also helpful when you've just unlocked a new belt tier. While the resources for that tier are still scarcer it helps to use lower tier out of the manifold where possible. Mk1 works well as it's sufficient for most inputs, and you'll always have some anyway for poles, splitters etc when you might not have what's needed for the other intermediate tiers
daring sonnet
couple of oil questions. I just started my first simple fuel plant with only 1 300m3 node. I read in the wiki that you can use up to 13.3... generators, is it accurate? I'm currently using 12 just in case. Also, the plant is about 1.5 km away from my base, what's a decent enough way to transport plastic and rubber from there? it's obviously not much right now, are trains overkill?
hot ginkgo
It is accurate.
For long distance a train is definitely worth it. Much easier to set up and expand than belts.
daring sonnet
thanks bando!
upbeat tide
Also dont mix plastic/rubber production with power generation. Byproduct management becomes untamable over time because the power gens will not be using 100% of resources for a long time
glacial hemlock
Mixed tiered belts is a preference, i just don't bother to bring too many different types of materials with me
hot ginkgo
@upbeat tide using smart splitters may help. Depending in the specific scenario. But otherwise i agree. Power and production seperate.
daring sonnet
i never thought of that, but that's really smart, I'll split the setup, thanks verios
noble linden
I put a mk4 belt somewhere in my mk5 belt leading to my personal sorter cus I'm a monster
sturdy lagoon
Mixing belts is nice for clarity on big builds
I don't add mk5 until it's needed. Mk5 signals the end of expansion on that line. Means it's time for verticality
sturdy lagoon
I started laying out my diluted fuel factory last night. Getting ready for 750 refineries is a bit intimidating.
fierce ruin
e
sterile cave
oops
bleak coral
IMO, past Mk2s (which can be hard to make en masse when you've got them unlocked) mixing belts just unnecessarily risks putting the wrong belt in the wrong place and accidentally throttling your production
fresh elm
disagree
hot ginkgo
Personally, I click through placing belts really fast. Adding in another button press would just be annoying. Especially doing large manifolds.
fresh elm
with a few exceptions I try to use the right speed belt for the speed i/o
HOWEVER - if something is 60/m I will use a 120/m belt
at least output
(I want them to be able to drain outbound)
so if I have a stockpile I want it to be able to be used
but I still choke output somewhat too
because I don't want to just use 1-2 machines, I want to use more of the infrastructure
so choking input forces stuff to more machines faster during init, and choking output forces more machines to kick on when you start using it
wish me luck, this might crash my game
but I have to know
yay no crash
I do not quite understand the crashes I'm getting now
hot ginkgo
You're pushing the game to its limit. I did some research on the last error you sent me and couldn't really find anything.
fresh elm
yeah, it's something about the geometry in this part of the world combined with the massive amount of stuff I have
hot ginkgo
I wonder if all your stuff was moved into ocean that it might ease the problem?
Now that i think about it. Maybe not. Logically I csnt see a reason it would help. All your stuff still has to load.
What if when you saved, you moved to an area far away from and buildings?
fresh elm
I can still see detail in my buildings from across the map.
so I'm guessing htat's a good chunk of the issue
fresh elm
Okay mr jace has my save file now
I'm going to file a really long detailed bug report, and if I could get folks particularly those of you who like to mega-build to upvote it
so in like an hour I'll paste a link, please upvote
urban relic
i will
noble linden
Can't get post
fresh elm
the / worked a bit ago
sand garnet
odd, the / at the end breaks it
fresh elm
it worked and then it didn't
I'm building again and I haven't crashed in a bit
I'd say that means ben's fix worked but I'm not exactly TRYING tto crash it
hot ginkgo
Go try. Find out now rsther then when you have 4 hours of progress lost.
fresh elm
I save constantly now
most of my time lost is reload-fail-reload-fail-reload-fail
but you make a good point
if I crash, I'll go play subnautica for a while lol
YESSSSSSSSSSSS
the place if I just whipped my camera past would reliably poop the game no longer does.
sand garnet
congrats dude
fresh elm
I may never sleep again
dry wave
Critique this build please. Do you guys use Crystal Computers?
fresh elm
I do not. but htat's because with oil tripling I have basically a truckload of oil now and not enough quartz
upbeat tide
Better to use quartz for silica.
Also if you want to use crystal ocilators, use the alt. Your quartz goes longer.
dry wave
So I should go with this then?
I'm using the Insulated Crystal Oscillator. Is that the Alt you're talking about, or another one?
upbeat tide
Yea sorry I misread it
Im used to looking at Danielβs calc
Anyway I plan on not using crystal computer for mine. Im already investing 94.5 crystal ocilators worth of quartz towards my nuclear project.
Not built yet, but already have the quartz supply.
- 1200 quartz to quartz crystal
- 3600 quarts to silica
dry wave
I've decided to only maximize one Uranium node, and my nuke is all done at 156 plants.
upbeat tide
157.5 precicely
dry wave
It doesn't use all that much Quartz.
I'm not gonna mess up my 12x13 nuke grid with that one extra plant. π
Anyway, thanks for the tips. I'll start with Cat Computers for this build, and see how it goes. Any other changes you'd make?
Yeah, I forgot about the silica needs of the Aluminum. I should for sure minimize other quartz usage.
upbeat tide
Im only using 1200 quartz for my alclad setup. It spits out 819 a min
And my byproduct silica isnt used yet
Cheap silica is nuts
bleak coral
fyi on that site the maximize only gets the best ppm, it doesn't try to minimize resource usage during the maximize calculation
so try taking the ppm the maximize finds, and put it into an items/minute instead, it'll minimize the resource usage
dry wave
I'd rather just bug you guys and have a conversation. I need the human contact anyway. π
Hey greeny
bleak coral
you scared him off good job π
wind spade
@wind spade could you explain, I've also been doing mk1 from the manifold to speed up the startup without being to prime. If that's no quicker then it's not intuitive as to why.
@open geyser if you have mk5s, then first machine fills faster and therefore it faster overflows. You may reach 100% at different times, but if you run both setups at the same time, after they both reach 100%, they have produced the same amount of items, so there's no difference in efficiency
dry wave
I always just use the Mk5 for everything. My planning capacity is already overloaded, I don't need to go nitpicking that kind of stuff. I don't understand people who do.
bleak coral
probably applies to the times I use smart splitters to use the overflow function for manifolds too, I just like to know it'll function exactly like I want when there's an underclocked or mixed ends on the manifold
dry wave
I was playing vanilla, no mods, until I finished my nuclear setup, which broke me. Saw the vid of that dev saying they'd probably do blueprints as an end-game perk, and decided it was OK for me to copy my own builds. Shaved probably 30 hours off my Pure Caterium refinery build, which I just copied from my Copper Sheet build.
There's "optimizing the fun out of it", and then there's just maintaining my sanity.
Copper Sheets on the left copied to Pure Caterium on the right.
upbeat tide
That below the world?
worthy copper
im cool with blueprints being endgame only tbh
the building doesnt get that tedious until youre doing megaprojects
upbeat tide
Ooh nvm just night skybox
bleak coral
a control panel would be fantastic, where you could control the machines from instead of having to go up to them individually
also would be cool if you could use just 3 slugs on that to overclock a certain number of machines it controls instead of 3 slugs per machine
upbeat tide
@dry wave
Copper sheets, copper ingots, iron ingots, quartx crystal, and caterium ingots
Left to right and beacons and steel in the middle
Only slugs I use are in miners and oil pumps, the ocassional water pump but I try not to use them in those
dry wave
I don't build refineries on land. Only over water. I don't like running pipes over any kind of distance, and I refuse to use pumps.
dry wave
Still more pipe management than I like. I like to just build a huge array of extractors and hook them right into a simple pipe grid, like in my screenshot.
your build looks super nice though. Just more work than I'm up for. π
upbeat tide
Yea I got a setup like that too but dont like undersea building
Dont have a recent screenshot but ill toss one in a few hours
But its off the swamp beach
dry wave
I only build 1 wall height under. It's not so bad. Once I had my pattern down, I prefer it to having pipes+belts visible above ground
dry wave
And the power line hidden under there too. Nice and compact.
The refineries are thankfully exactly 1.5 floors wide, so it's easy to lay down all the splitters, mergers, pipes, pipe junctions and power on the floor below the water before you plop the refineries on top.
upbeat tide
Close up on the main water collwction
dry wave
Yeah, man, I'm a little OCD, so building something like that would have me nitpicking for literally days
dry wave
and all those pumps. no thanks, heh. π
dry wave
I'll stick to building over the ocean until I run out of ocean.
upbeat tide
My post with many screenshots
This project started with βI got unused resources wat do? β in the blue crater
And my blue crater is already βoccoupiedβ
dry wave
It's certainly beautiful. Maybe some day I'll get more into aesthetics. For now, I just build naked arrays of machines over glass floors until I'm down to 10fps, then move on to another area. π
upbeat tide
Thats my blue crater
dry wave
My memory is really bad, so I can't go hiding everything in buildings because I'll forget what's in them and have to keep checking and re-checking.
I should use the sign mod, actually
upbeat tide
- 60 heavy frames
- 60 of each iron base product up to frames, rotors, and RIP
- 60 nobilisk
- 60 rifle cartridge
- 60 rebar
- 1800 plastic
- 1800 rubber
- 2666.66m3 turbofuel
- 20 packaged fuel
Thats the master production list for down there
There is a main storage room to the left of the unkillable shroom tree thing but besides that most is exported out
Thats the fuel gen field
Built over the void south of the blue crater
dry wave
Running that much pipe is not my idea of a good time. π
upbeat tide
Eeh that was the easy part π
I got 180+ km of piping map wide
Each pipe gets 5 industrial fluid buffers for redundency and emergency storage π
sullen cloud
Still wondering why people think that in this game any kind of buffer is needed
upbeat tide
They arent there for buffer. Its there for a βO shtβ moment
Its there to give me a measure of comfort if something bugs out, breaks, etc and I dont notice for a while
@sullen cloud
Also one area buffer is mandatory is trains.
dry wave
My nuclear relies on trains, and they keep getting stuck. Plenty of buffer built into the train station and nuclear power plants themselves, though.
upbeat tide
time the round trip (without loading/unload) first, then add 50 seconds. If the total time less than 4m06s, then 1 car per belt. If more than 4m6s, use 2 cars per belt or 2 equal trains. If more than 8min12s, use 3 car per belt or 3 similar trains.
belt > ISC > cargo platform > train > pipe > pump > IFB > pump > fluid platform
Check how long your trains take to loop and follow that advice
dry wave
I have 2 trains, one of which is redundant given required throughput. 2 cars for quickwire, and only like 10% utilization so far.
upbeat tide
I wouldnt train quickwire. Way too much of it. Easier to train copper and cat ingots IMO and on site use fused quickwire
glacial hemlock
@sullen cloud i agree with you. An efficient factory doesn't require unnecessary buffers. And i don't even build a single liquid buffer after i have 40TM/min
ISC only for trains or storing end products
hot ginkgo
@fresh elm I just now saw that your game improved. Is it still working fine? Any crashing?
fresh elm
it hasn't crashed since ben helped earlier
he knew exactly where I was talking about
or seemed to
he said it crashes the world editor too
hot ginkgo
I hope you have plenty of caffine. I get the feeling sleep is not in your future.
fresh elm
I've been working on this project for 2 months
the "I'm almost done" has been going on for like a week
it won't stop me from sleeping
I'm at 403 now.
hot ginkgo
Well, a week of almost done relative to 2 months is perfectly acceptable. I just cant believe you found another way to punish the engine even more.
fresh elm
you don't think I'm done breaking their game yet do you?
my 50 supercomptuer line isn't built
the oil is done for it, then I was like "this is gonna tap my power"
then I have literally been doing nothing else besides fixing that problem
if I had a youtube channel it owuld be like simon whistler's megaprojects channel, except it'd only be in satisfactory
literally all the "real" work left in this project is finding enough space with water that works that will fit into my build in a way that doesn't look like shit
hot ginkgo
I honestly can't wait for you to break it more. Its almost exciting to see how hard you beat the game.
upbeat tide
I still dont know how Simon habdles it all. He has what? A dozen active channels?
fresh elm
that's all he does is record
and he's just the talent for a bunch of channels taht aren't his exactly
upbeat tide
Yea gotta live and breathe it
fresh elm
for many of them he gets paid to record them