if i knew you would to that, i would have written something better ._.
#math-and-meta
boreal cypress
muted crypt
What, is my tutorial not good enough for you
tiny sentinel
I really wish the game had industrial size power towers like these for running power over long distances
muted crypt
if you squint hard enough they look exactly like that
As for your long-distance power concerns... train rails are nice for that
glacial hemlock
I think some fancy 3d artworks are possible by using some wall outlets+wires or pipes
tiny sentinel
[cries in stuck at Tier 4]
muted crypt
you'll get there 😄
sand garnet
lmao greeny that video tutorial is god tier
glacial hemlock
tier4 for first time? That's a great progress there
tiny sentinel
I unlocked the explorer vehicle but haven't unlocked the motor recipe 
yeah, I'm still getting my steel up and running, but I have a tractor on a loop delivering caterium and I have a MK2 belt line from the pure coal node at the south west of the green plains biome. I split 30 coal to keep the truck station (and tractor) fueled up and the other 90 goes to my 3 steal foundries. it worked out perfectly
glacial hemlock
great, and if you can tame a tractor well, you are doing a very great job.
tiny sentinel
and each of my floors, starting on the second floor, are a sandwich with glass on top, then metal foundation frame, then a 8x1 foundation.
I've been using that to run belts under the floor/ceiling and between floors.
it's a super clean layout
glacial hemlock
yeah, cool. Btw, if you are going for magabase at the late game, you gotta reduce the usage of glass walls and foundations, they cause lags
wind spade
you gotta do separated factories, not megabase 😛
tiny sentinel
is that dependent on my PC's available horse power or just wonkiness with the engine regardless of how beastly my PC is?
wind spade
both
near fractal
^
tiny sentinel
I'm making separate factories based on general categories. like all my iron/steel in one, copper (and maybe quartz and caterium) in another, etc. and I'll have a whole other facility for all the oil based stuff
boreal cypress
you gotta do separated factories, not megabase 😛
@wind spade dont tell me what to do
tiny sentinel
my PC is pretty decent. Ryzen 9 3900X, 32GB RAM, RTX 2080 and entirely NVME SSD storage.
in my world right now I'm averaging north of 60FPS in most places.
though I recently loaded up a save file Kibz provided of his let's play world and yeah, it chugged a bit.
game just freezes for a solid 30 seconds on each autosave
boreal cypress
same with my save
tiny sentinel
my world freezes for a second or 2 on each save, but I guess most of the wonkiness we experience can be blamed on early access status? I assume they'll start really bug smashing once the game is feature complete. It's already pretty solid for an early access game though.
barren elm
Mine does too on a SSD on a fresh world
Maybe not 2 seconds but a lot more than it used to
The fact that they put a warning in for when it's about to autosave says to me that they know about it and they can't change the freeze
boreal cypress
its because of the massive save compression
Savefile before Cloud Saving were over 150MB now they are like 5MB
abstract copper
Fixing that is part of their work for making dedicated servers I think
quasi kettle
In oil extractors, there's wording that the flow rate is xxx m3/min. No matter what I overclock the pump to - say 480 m3/min.. Is it actually doing 480 or is it limited at 300?
I almost think it's capped at 300, cause if I have mine set to 480, and I'm feeding refineries for fuel... and each refinery has an input of 60 per minute, I should be able to fill 8 refineries. But it seems like I can only do 5 reliably.
boreal cypress
In oil extractors, there's wording that the flow rate is xxx m3/min. No matter what I overclock the pump to - say 480 m3/min.. Is it actually doing 480 or is it limited at 300?
@quasi kettle limit to 300 because pipe
quasi kettle
So no bother overclocking then... damn.
boreal cypress
you can them oc to 300m³ max
quasi kettle
Right... I want 480.. 🙂
boreal cypress
you cant get them :D
opal cairn
when will cards or achievements be added to the satisfactory on steam?
boreal cypress
Achievment: dismantle your pod
Achievment: build HUB
Achievment: FIRST BLOOD
sand garnet
achievement: press left mouse button.
boreal cypress
no thats a very hard one o.0 how do you achieve that?
quasi kettle
What's the most efficient way to make plastic and rubber? I tried the alternate recipes for recycled rubber and plastic - each of them feeds the other and then the excess is shipped away... but I'm only able to add 6 refineries to each pure oil node (see above). There's got to be a better way, right?
Convert it all to resin and then refine that?
boreal cypress
wind spade
diluted packaged fuel -> recycling loop
boreal cypress
quasi kettle
900 min is great! Ok, so that's plastic. Work the same for rubber?
fk me..that's a lot of equipment.
boreal cypress
idk why both use residual rubber @wind spade
wind spade
less PR and more water
boreal cypress
ahh okay
wind spade
so you'll get more stuff out of it
boreal cypress
thanks ^.^
quasi kettle
I wonder if it's possible to combine those two diagrams to use less buildings and say 780 items per minute? 🙂
of each
wind spade
boreal cypress
.-.
funny... its 780,01 rubber and 779,99 plastic xD
but why do my chart look diffrent?
wind spade
that's probably just a rounding error
boreal cypress
wind spade
I have plastic first and rubber second
boreal cypress
oh
wind spade
I assume you have it the other way around
boreal cypress
yes
quasi kettle
ok, so the answer is yes, but you're really not saving any equipment. lol
quasi kettle
Ok, I have a new spot for a plastic/rubber plant, so let me get building. 🙂
wind spade
btw @quasi kettle the diagrams are from my tool, so you can generate them yourself 🙂
this is the setup I've been using: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qeAnyJE5t2dv5u0rOOxQ
quasi kettle
excellent. I'll use that for sure.
The science is there, but does it actually work? 🙂
For things that require > 300 quantity (in liquid), I'm guessing you're just feeding a large pipe with lots of refineries on it?
wind spade
multiple pipes 🙂
quasi kettle
Right so for your instance that shows 1733 water input - that would be 5.77 water extractors feeding 23 refineries. 23 refineries / 5.77 = ~4 refineries per water extractor. Is that about right?
5.77 water extractors maxed out, that is.
overclocked to the max
wind spade
I think so
or more extractors not overclocked
if you have the space, it's usually better to not overclock them
as the non-overclocked extractors use less power
gilded yarrow
thanks for the tools share, that is awesome
barren elm
@grand garnet If you absolutely must have that railing there and it just isn't working, then you can use greeny's map tools to place it instead
gilded yarrow
I like the maximize button, that is awesome for planning out how/what to plan out
barren elm
It didn't take long to learn how to move/copy stuff etc
grand garnet
yea, im moving around the foundation and it happens every so often... I'll probs have to use the map tools
gilded yarrow
do you guys have to redesign your factories alot in the beginning?
barren elm
Not really
hot ginkgo
Ohh yeah.
barren elm
Usually I divide the map into grids
Assign a grid as a "starter factory"
Do all my messy starter factory shenanigans there
Then do a more planned factory in the other grids
gilded yarrow
im only on my 2nd play through on tier 5, but trying to build out so i dont have to come back and re do everything
barren elm
Yeah that's kinda unavoidable due to the existence of alt recipes
hot ginkgo
Rebuilding will happen over and over until you figure out your design method.
Learn from mistakes, find a better way to do it that fits your brain.
barren elm
But you don't have to update your current factory, you can just leave it as it is while you move onto other areas
hot ginkgo
That's what I did alot. Basicslly what Tya described. Build a started and plan more later once alts are unlocked.
gilded yarrow
gotcha
yea i starting the heavy modular frames, and have alot of pure nodes, so that tools link was awesome of maximazing the nodes
hot ginkgo
Greeny is the bomb.
gilded yarrow
tell you what thought, this is prolly one of the best games i've played in a long long time
warm wren
The argument in my brain... "But it's right there!" "But what if I need that resource for something else" "It's literally right beside of where you could use it!" "But... I have plenty of the resource and..." "But it's RIGHT THERE!"
vale surge
does anyone have a crazy good turbo motor factory yet? Or am I stuck trying to compute all this nonsense to even attempt one?
And when I say crazy good I don't mean 100% efficient, I mean like going for around 20/min (Because why not)
quasi kettle
Not sure why but Satisfactory-calculator doesn't know how to compute making cables with the quickwire alt
keeps showing me the normal method, even though I have that recipe checked.
hot ginkgo
I usually only use greenys stuff now. But some recipes you have to disable the original gift the alt to be used.@quasi kettle
Not sure if SCIM has that function.
quasi kettle
What is greeny's stuff?
hot ginkgo
quasi kettle
Oh yeah, use that A LOT 🙂 Didn't play with the calculator much tho
hot ginkgo
I prefer it because it doesnt show each individual connection.
quasi kettle
Wait, my bad. Wrong URL I was thinking of.
And that is the right site I was saying doesn't show the one Alt recipe.
the SCIM one is the one I use a lot -for mapping and finding resources
hot ginkgo
If you scroll farther down you can unselect a default recipe.
stray moon
tiny sentinel
my method for bringing stuff to the space elevator from below. I've got it on a raised platform.
all the belts go under the walkway bridge to the main assembly factory. Right now it's just doing steel, but eventually that will move to another facility and this building will be for assembling the complex parts for the elevator.
quasi kettle
Here's an interesting, but familiar thought - why do we package things? I mean why can't we just pipe it to the other equipment? I'm following one of the diagrams that @wind spade posted, and the whole "package, then unpackage" doesn't quite make sense to me. Unless you're gaining an advantage, what's the point?
quasi kettle
Right thats called for.. ok, so you get a bump..
hot ginkgo
That loop he refers too is probably the HOR>diluted>turbo.
quasi kettle
This the plastic/rubber recipe
hot ginkgo
Makes 22GW from 300 oil.
quasi kettle
Yeah, I think I read that one too. Doesn't that use like a shipload of refineries? Well the plastic/rubber one uses about 100, so probably just as bad. lol
hot ginkgo
Yup. Same thing. It uses the recycled fuel alt.
And the diluted fuel is the best way to get more fuel.
quasi kettle
well I got 16 GW, so maybe when that gets close, I'll have to build that power plant.
I'm assuming you're talking about stage 5 here. https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Fuel_Generator
quasi kettle
I've done step 4... mixed with coal, got about 16GW, so good for now.
hot ginkgo
I'm working on the stage 5 one now.
Just finished all the fuel set ups. About to start compacted coal and can finally build all the gens.
quasi kettle
woohoo!
eager solar
I did stage 5, took a lot of time but was fun to do
I'm just half-pissed because I planned too big and now I have 2 empty floors
worthy copper
i spent literally all of today building a stage 5 from start to finish
including setting up the compacted coal camp
warm wren
☢️
mental geyser
nice
celest vault
The reason why the package/unpackage loop exists is because with diluted fuel you're turning 2 liquids into 1 liquid. Seeing a refinery has one fluid intake and one belt intake, one of the two fluids needs to be packaged. @quasi kettle
river night
I do hope they vastly extend fluid systems to get rid of such kludges
wind spade
I think the packaging/unpackaging is there to be a downside as well
celest vault
I just want a tiny as heck (un)packager building that uses way less power.
celest vault
Hardly, but obviously the recipes could (and would need to, because it'd break builds anyway) be adjusted.
river night
I feel like an elegant solution would be allowing inputs on some machines to dynamically swap between belt or pipe, somehow. That way a refinery could take two fluids, or eg. a foundry could accept water and cover the pure ingots, etc. Sure, it would need an overall balance pass, but I just want some diversity from refinery for everything
celest vault
I was thinking about that as well, Nev, but that'd require adding in new functionality to buildings that doesn't exist yet, meaning it's unlikely they will.
sand garnet
even if it uses equal amounts of power, a secondary fluid building would be fine for me
just to break up the monotony of refineries as far as the eye can see
stark bronze
A machine for every input and output combination
celest vault
I mean, the smelter and constructors both have belt in/outputs. So does the foundry and the assembler. But they have different functionality. This could too.
stark bronze
Like fluid and solid in/ solid out can be a washer for pure alts and an applier for coated cables and such
celest vault
Problem of that is that the building would be useless until you find the alt recipes. x)
wind spade
well if there's someone with nice 3D moddeling skills, I'd be happy to make that into a mod 😛
stark bronze
Unlocking with the alt?
unlocked recipe: pure doggo ingot
unlocked building: washer
wind spade
more buildings
stark bronze
unlocked recipe: diluted packaged fuel
unlocked building: applier
twin pike
Has anybody experimented with this before? With the new overflow setting on smart splitters, it seems like you can do some basic logic gates. Here's a Not gate / priority merger
and here's an SR latch made from a few of them together
right now I've only got them puzzled out for mixed types, since that gives me better control of the routing in the smart splitters. but I'm sure you could do same-type logic if you used some kind of intermediate item
I know there are mods that can do this better already, but I think it's kind of cool that it's possible unmodded
copper fiber
Awesome!!! now you can actually turn off machines when a storage is full
boreal cypress
but machines turn automaticly off when storage is full o.0
copper fiber
because it is saturated, yes, but I see possibilities, get more efficiency out of your lines because you can stop the flow of materials as long as there is no output for example
stark bronze
Still harder than manifolds
wind spade
makes no sense, especially now with sinks
you essentially just want to produce stuff until storagebox is full and then either stop the production or sink the rest
both cases are doable easily with one overflow splitter
sure, as a nice experiment, building latches and gates can be fun
but imo has no real use in the game
cedar mica
Only reason I see for a better splitter, is that you have rations as an option, but thats a different topic
copper fiber
sure, I do that right now, but i'm currently working on my power factory as I have hardly enough to run the entire factory, so if you can shut down the flow of material until another part of the factory has completed its production, so the factory starts up at a sequence..
cedar mica
The only reason to shut down a part of the factory, is to save power, but then you are playing the "do I have enough power overall" game
wind spade
it shuts down automatically if you don't have space on belts
and you're not solving the root cause of the issue
"I don't have power" should be solved by adding more power, not reducing your factory
glacial hemlock
If you face power shortage in this game for prolonged time, you are probably playing it wrong
copper fiber
just trowing a ball here :p i'm upgrading my power, after that it doesn't make sense, I agree, just thinking of possibilities
cedar mica
Some times you need to save power, as building more power, needs power as well 😛
wind spade
well then this system wouldn't help you anyway 😉
because you'd need to wait for it to shut down when the condition is met (storage full or smth)
so it's better to disconnect one pole anyway
cedar mica
That system is built into the game, if storage/buffer and belt is full, wait till room
glacial hemlock
You can have some fancy separated power network so that if power trips, only part of the factory is affected
cedar mica
I would rather separate so you have separate production. Geothermal powers the water extractors and the pumps, the coal power you get from that powers fuel/turbo/nuclear. That way, if you kill the power, you can very quickly get it back up and running
Of course, its an endgame setup, but you are rebuilding your power at tier 5-7 anyway
glacial hemlock
Or basically just building an overkilling power supply. In the endgame you barely hit 0.5TW, but you can easily create 1.18TW
wind spade
having more power than you consume at max is recommended anyway
wanton axle
I'm generating 1.4 TW and using about 650MW LOL
wind spade
wait what
wanton axle
2 coal generators, 2 fuel generators & 3 geothermal generators LOL
wind spade
how do you generate 1.4 TW from 650 MW
wind spade
yeah
wanton axle
generating 1.4TW
wind spade
but to produce 1.4 TW you need to process all the uranium, most of the turbofuel and that processing plant will definitely eat more than 650 MW
wanton axle
not using nuclear at all
wind spade
then you can't be generating 1.4 TW
boreal cypress
how do you produce 1,4 TW?
wanton axle
2 coal generators, 2 fuel generators & 3 geothermal generators
boreal cypress
2 coal generators, 2 fuel generators & 3 geothermal generators LOL
@wanton axle thats only 1050 MW xD
wind spade
^
wanton axle
the 2 coal have 3 shards each
boreal cypress
1,4 TW is 1400000 MW
wind spade
ok, that's 302 MW from coal
indigo vigil
I think you're mistaking GW for TW
boreal cypress
^
wanton axle
ok, I will hop on that game and check lol
indigo vigil
TW is 1000x larger than a GW
wanton axle
ok, 1 fuel generator has 3 shards
boreal cypress
show the capacity
wanton axle
2nd fuel generator has 2 shards
boreal cypress
show capacity
indigo vigil
The screenshot goblin is hungry. You must feed it.
wanton axle
total capacity is 1,462.7 MW with current production currently at 600 MW
boreal cypress
1462,7 MW is NOT 1,4 TW xD its only 1,4 GW
wanton axle
boreal cypress
jep, no TW
wanton axle
oops got my T & G mixed up LOL
wanton axle
lol, then my job for the day is done LOL - I try to confuse at least 1 person a day LOL
wanton axle
LOL
rugged flower
@wanton axle yes you can
glacial hemlock
When someone mentioning more than 1.3 GW i gonna react with: wait, that's illegal. Anyway
boreal cypress
but not with @ name while writin @rugged flower
When someone mentioning more than 1.3 GW i gonna react with: wait, that's illegal. Anyway
@glacial hemlock you mean 1,3TW? xD
glacial hemlock
Yeah, now i am the one causing confusion
wanton axle
Why won't 2 nuclear plants give you more than that?
boreal cypress
2 NPP give 5 GW
glacial hemlock
472.5 nuclear plants you mean?
wind spade
Even 1 would give you more
warm wren
My set up can only support 140-150 nuke reactors, I'm such a slacker 😄
boreal cypress
my setup is for 144 NPP :D
copper fiber
and how much power are you using?
boreal cypress
40 GW becasue T-Motor Factory isnt connected
glacial hemlock
T-motor sounds cool. Perhaps we will have L-motor and S-motor soon.
vale surge
40 GW becasue T-Motor Factory isnt connected
@boreal cypress how many T-Motor's you making? I'm debating going for 22.5/min, I believe I can do a good chunk more though
boreal cypress
im going for 124 Turbo Motors @vale surge
vale surge
jesus.
mental geyser
@boreal cypress isnt that most of the way to the physical limit
vale surge
isn't max 156?
vale surge
how are you not using like half of the worlds oil anywhere else to limit you to like 80
boreal cypress
i use the 1:3 oil:plastic/rubber setup
barren elm
You don't really need oil for anything if you're just going for turbomotors
boreal cypress
true ^^ but some alternate are just better so i need oil :D
mental geyser
I need to change my oil setup to 1:3 at some point
that'll give me 2400 plastic / min 😄
eager solar
1:3?
vale surge
I use the west-most oil nodes for plastic/rubber setups producing 1800 of each I think
1:3?
@eager solar using oil -> HOR & water + HOR -> Diluted packaged fuel, with some other alts you can do 300 oil -> 900 plastic or rubber
boreal cypress
@eager solar yes, you use 300 oil to get 900 plastic/rubber
ancient python
=]
eager solar
oh, the recycled loop
dusty crow
i just recently got the game
eager solar
didn't get the name
vale surge
i just recently got the game
@dusty crow if u just got the game then I feel it's most enjoyed staying off of the steam reviews / discord servers your first playthrough to fully experience everything
mental geyser
actually if I use 1:3 I can get 3600 plastic/min
dusty crow
gotcha. i'll just.. post this first setup of mine tho to get iron
mental geyser
nice!
torn trail
vale surge
I can confirm the most annoying harddrive to get has to be in the red forest surrounded by both uranium & 6 bug nests
sand garnet
luckily, you can skip 13 and still get all the unlocks in the game right now
boreal cypress
2 (?) you have to skip :D
muted crypt
I can confirm the most annoying harddrive to get has to be in the red forest surrounded by both uranium & 6 bug nests
@vale surge there is one on the edge of the red forest (I think) protected by three alpha spitters and poison clouds... I got that one without a gas mask 😩
I was literally yeeting nobelisks for 10 minutes
vale surge
that was was alright to get, by that point I had the rifle though
muted crypt
xenobasher and nobelisks are the only weapons I use... screw me, I guess
upbeat lance
eager solar
for me the most annoying was the one on top of a big stone pillar asking for 14 biomass burners
with a bunch of hogs and their alpha
vale surge
for the 420MW crash I just OC'd some burners since I was impatient to feed 14 with fuel
eager solar
I didn't have slugs/shards with me and I was lie short of 10 raw iron ores so I had to look around for it
pain in the ass
static wren
why is my math saying i should draw 9MW power off of one biomass burner but it says 12.8MW?
vale surge
I didn't have slugs/shards with me and I was lie short of 10 raw iron ores so I had to look around for it
yeah normally when I go for harddrives I go to a biome and just get them all which gives me a good chunk of slugs on the way around
eager solar
same but I just happened to not have one at this very moment
wind spade
@static wren wdym? Are you using more power than you should?
Did you overclock something?
static wren
im underclocking
and adding up the power output it adds up to about 9 but the graph says 12.8
cerulean marlin
I have a total of 900 crude that I'm imputing (2 overclocked normal and 2 overclocked impure's) what is the best thing to manufacture, and is there a way to make a efficient regular fuel generation system with also having the benefit of mass producing either plastic or rubber. If there is a way what ratio should i be using, all i know is that i need 30 refinery's for all the crude inputs
celest vault
If you have the recipes there's a rubber/plastic recycling loop that you can do, it uses a lot of fuel and water. You could also make a lot of turbofuel and have a bunch of fuel generators with a single crude oil spot. Kind of all depends on what you need.
And if you want to know what ratios to build them at, check out greeny's tool. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production
I personally only have like 2 oil spots that I use, so no more than 600/m. It's ridiculous how much you can get out of oil.
mint grove
Hey Guys im new here, about 720 Coal, for how many Coal Generator at full effec. ?
fierce ruin
720/15
mint grove
alright ty so much
cerulean marlin
@mint grove use https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production it helps so much, i really wish i knew about this tool when I started
mint grove
@cerulean marlin tyvm i already about 250+ hours but still noob 😄
cerulean marlin
lmao yea i got 169 hours and just learned about it today
mint grove
well for text it's more easy for me im not english xD
cerulean marlin
gotcha
carmine mountain
if im being totally honest i didnt even know that math was involved in satisfactory
tawny hornet
You only do math if you want the best optimization
carmine mountain
i used to play factorio but stopped
celest vault
No math in Factorio? Funny.
stark bronze
Math with grabbers? Funny.
celest vault
If you put down the right grabbers, you'll always have a consistent throughput.
stark bronze
I guess i never put down the right grabbers
celest vault
Smelters smelt so many per second, belts can only move so much per second, assemblers make so many items per second. There's definite math in all of it.
verbal cloud
have i got this right 133 fuel generators per 600m^3 turbofuel?
celest vault
Correct.
verbal cloud
ta
stark bronze
2 boomers can kill most of the small bosses except elite stingers
swift sage
There's a lot of maths in factorio, especially if you're doing it modded.
glacial hemlock
nice to see you here @swift sage and I am a fan of your mods in factorio
celest vault
Hah, I was wondering why that name was familiar.
dim thicket
On the other hand, I think satisfactory is less mathematical than most people make it out to be. (Especially if you're still trying to split everything)
stark bronze
Math is tier 4 stuff
boreal cypress
There's a lot of maths in factorio, especially if you're doing it modded.
@swift sage like Bob and Angel Mod? :P
celest vault
Pfff, nah, what a preposterous assumption.
boreal cypress
Factorio is more math because you dont get items/minute numbers... in Factorio you have to calculate that yourself :D
glacial hemlock
actually, you have, as the time is indicated in their recipe, such as, green circuit is 0.5s, which is eq to 120/min
boreal cypress
but its not directly shown as in SF ^^ and you have diffrent tier of machines so you have to calculate their production speed too
hushed shadow
factorio recipies are often more balanced so you can use even numbers of machines
boreal cypress
not with nuclear power setup xD thats a huge number to have the perfect ratio
barren elm
On the flipside, there's no punishment for overbuilding in satisfactory so you don't need to use even numbers of machines
runic rivet
.
worthy copper
until you rig everything to buffer-based switches
swift sage
There's still a lot I wish were possible in Satisfactory, I mean, Modding would probably fix most of those, but still, I'm still into it's vanilla
Like, half a quater tiles, a wall with a door on one side and convayer hole on the other... and stuff like that.
celest vault
I can only imagine the kind of stuff you'd add to this game. xD
swift sage
A splitter/combiner that's 2 in 2 out.
celest vault
Sorter, then. Sounds like something that should be in vanilla.
swift sage
as it stands, first you have to split both the lines, then combine 2 outputs from the splitters... which takes a lot more space than a single entity.
I think my "Sorter" as you put it ended up using 2 splitters and 4 combiners with 4 lifers, though the final layout with a "sorter" would still have been 1 sorter, 2 lifters and 2 combiners.
celest vault
Sorter because it both merges and splits. c:
swift sage
but if you put that in the game, how do you configure the input/outputs? if you include rotations, there's 2 possible configurations. One where the 2 inputs are oposite, and outputs on the free sides, but also one where the inputs are adjacent, and the outputs on the other 2 adjecent sides
celest vault
I think I'd make the input/outputs adjacent. Making them forcefully cross feels like something that wouldn't often happen? Like, usually you have output coming from one side, and continues a similar direction to become input.
Or, make it an option. x)
cerulean marlin
what is better, the regualr recipe for Turbo fuel or is the alternate "Turbo heavy fuel" better
celest vault
The "regular" one. That way you get to use the diluted fuel to practically double the turbofuel.
swift sage
and yet, inputs oposite and outputs on the other sides is the configuration I would have needed
Yes, I'd say regular is better, especially when coupled with diluted fuel, as you can get something like 8 fuel from 3 oil... let me check the maths
Yeah, diluted fuel gives you twice as much fuel as you had heavy oil residue, and the difference in turbofuel recipes means that it's better to do it from the fuel.
celest vault
Honestly, if I were to have made this game, I would've made inputs/outputs as something that gets "attached" to buildings. Meaning they can swap out with things like refineries. And would also allow for a "smart" sorter, where you tell the building which sides are input and output, literally being able to make a splitter, merger, and both situations you described. x)
muted crypt
going crude oil -> heavy oil residue alt -> diluted fuel alt -> turbofuel "alt" is like 3 crude oil -> 6.67 turbofuel or something
mental geyser
that'd be a hassle, maybe it'd be better to just add another mode to the assembler after oil packaging is unlocked?
surreal dust
i used to play factorio but... it started to get boring idk why
celest vault
Continued repetition doesn't give enough dopamine.
boreal cypress
Satisfactory isnt diffrent :D
boreal cypress
you have to explore in Factorio too :P
lucid needle
z@celest vault smart splitters and programmable splitters exist, you just gotta unlock them
celest vault
Yep, yep they do.
sand burrow
what would be the best way to load balance 90 780 lines?
boreal cypress
Spaghetti, and patience
celest vault
90 MK5s!? Jaysus. Why?
sand burrow
smelting every single bit of iron on map using refineries
or if i could figure out how to put 134 lines perfect 525
boreal cypress
why not refining?
sand burrow
I am refining using the alt rec with added water
boreal cypress
uff ... well i thought im going mad with 124 turbo motors .. but you ... you are man ... xD
sand burrow
haha end goal is to max out turbo motors lol
boreal cypress
thats just 156 ^^
fierce ruin
twin pike
I'd say just use 90 manifolds
over time it would balance itself as the refineries fill up
if you have 23 refineries on each they could all be independent lines
but you could probably get away with 22 if you had a couple crosslines to take the overflow
sand burrow
@twin pike that sounds good but a row of 15 perfectly take 300 water. I would have to run a second water line on each row.
twin pike
you could use 2-to-3 balancers then
sand burrow
yea itrs close just off by 5
twin pike
yeah I think the best solution is to take the tiny overflow off with a smart splitter
shell shadow
glacial hemlock
@fierce ruin the spiders on the screen are a bit scarier than the spiders in game
wind spade
Where is anarchofobia mode for mobile lol xD
stark crypt
@fierce ruin Lemme just say I hate you for that gif
glacial hemlock
@mint grove see coal generator in wiki
Your ratio only works if the power consumption is below 89%
warm wren
I was thinking today that 1200/min belts would let me make smart manifolds for foundaries... 
I've reached the point where I'm not even doing things just because I can... I'm... thinking about what I would do even if it's not the best way just because it's different than the way I've done it up until now.
glacial hemlock
Then let's game it out!
wind spade
And is also offtopic
tight blaze
Is the max amount of turbo motors 156/min ?
boreal cypress
yes
glacial hemlock
I had fun arranging it into a 7x6 grid, the turbomotor net
mint grove
There is some kind meta for every item (x/min)??
wind spade
wdym by meta? you mean the selection of alts to build that item?
mint grove
i mean ex: how many need for every item +/-
boreal cypress
well yes
glacial hemlock
Yes, the answer is yes.
wind spade
if you're asking about how much do you want to produce, then no
if you're asking about how much can you produce max from each item, then yes
glacial hemlock
You will need to produce and use up everything, but you will get a little surplus of iron ingot and plenty of limestones in the end
@mint grove you can start from one of the easiest: 156 turbomotors/min
boreal cypress
one of the easiest?
wind spade
well you don't want to max turbomotors
since then you can't build anything else that requires bauxite
glacial hemlock
True
boreal cypress
what do you want to have which needs bauxite too?
wind spade
alclad sheets for mk5 belts
boreal cypress
well its not a splitted product chain ^^ so when you dont sink TM you will have a overproduction of everything :D but maybe thats why i only produce 124 TM
wind spade
I prefer having everything split up
mint grove
for every item used by iron i have enough nodes to do about 50/100min?
boreal cypress
not many
for every item used by iron i have enough nodes to do about 50/100min?
@mint grove sure
mint grove
and my questions that's 50/100min it's enough or better to start higher?
because for now i have a couple facttory with 50p/min
but i think it's low
boreal cypress
what you want, but start slow and go high
mint grove
yeah ty 😉
wind spade
it's really up to you, there's nothing like "you need to have X to progress".
mental geyser
my problem is that my gameplay style revolves around idling for hours until I manage to create enough production to get what I need within a really short amount of time
meanwhile if I just built a small production and let it run it'd be done by then
wind spade
instead of idling, go automate more stuff, expand power/production, hunt for HDDs and slugs, etc.
mental geyser
by idling I mean I'm creating a massive automation that I can only run once its finished
mint grove
actully for my type of game i think 50/100min that's enough for me
boreal cypress
it's really up to you, there's nothing like "you need to have X to progress".
@wind spade tell that to the space elevator and milestones :D
wind spade
I mean X = items/min
boreal cypress
jeah thats true^^
eager solar
I'd say it can be considered enough once you produce enough to never be locked by production time
mental geyser
I think this game needs something that's infinitely grindable like science packs in factorio
boreal cypress
you can even play the game with only one machine per item ...
mental geyser
coupons are that, by they get exponentially impossible
wind spade
well at some point you run out of stuff to purchase anywnay
mental geyser
to get to that point you need hella turbomotors
boreal cypress
i have 1400 coupons
wind spade
I think if you don't purchase items it's not that hard to get to buy everything
pine python
boreal cypress
how long did that take
@mental geyser days :D
mental geyser
lol
@wind spade I spent 36 coupons on items, how screwed am I
I figured worst case scenario I forgo one of the 100 coupon statues
boreal cypress
well you should unlock every item, the buyable things arent ... well neccessary :D
tiny sentinel
so I just unlocked the MK 2 miners and overclocked some nodes. now I have more ore than I know what to do with. I've got 6 fully saturated MK3 lines of Iron ore. I calculated I need about 54 smelters to smelt the full 1,620 iron.
I'm now trying to figure out the best way to arrange them all
wind spade
or use refineries for even more iron 🤔
tiny sentinel
i do not have that recipe
boreal cypress
powerful, but need more power and alot more space for more iron
tiny sentinel
I'm just trying to get the versatile frameworks done. I did get the steel screw recipe. seems pretty bonkers for how many screws you can make off 5 beams
boreal cypress
or get alternate which dont need screws :P
wind spade
tiny sentinel
i don't have any of those alternates
glacial hemlock
It is possible to get to tier7 using only vanilla recipes
Each step with alternate will cut down the cost by 33% (generally)
celest vault
Possible? Sure.
Will it take a lot longer and will you be screaming about the amount of screws you need in the end? Likely.
vague berry
I mean before update 3 you could technically get to t7 without mining any copper
celest vault
Didn't have the space parts back then.
glacial hemlock
you pretty much need more than 10 belts of screws if you only use vanilla recipes, but you can do it in a smart way such that it is not an issue
boreal cypress
well you can also handcraft everything for the space elevator parts
short perch
Can someone sanity check me? Do wall outlets (and double wall outlets) not display the number of connections/total connections when you hover over them with a powerline like the power poles do?
boreal cypress
they dont show yes
wind spade
Each step with alternate will cut down the cost by 33% (generally)
@kwjcool321#7200 that's hardly the truth now. Was pretty close to this in U2, but now the alternates are way different
boreal cypress
why isnt that a ping o.0
boreal cypress
jeah alternate work diffrent, maybe its less cost on materials but for lower productions speed or more power usage
glacial hemlock
I am trying to speedrun package#2 under 4 hours, but at 2h20min I am still struggling to automate rotors then I knew I am done.. times to study other's speedrun
celest vault
So I figure, let's do this here, right channel after all.
Calculating the determinable fluid freight car throughput including animation downtime, in a single car from station A to B and back-situation.
A single fluid freight car can have 1600m³. With 600/m that takes 2m40s (160sec) to fil up (ignoring the station size, irrelevant). Let's just say that the animation downtime (25s) is just lost time for now. This means a single round trip (including both station animations) can be 3m05s (185sec) at maximum. After that, storages will be entirely filled and everything stagnates, ruining an efficient throughput.
This could be solved by adding more trains or freight cars.
Now how much do those 25 seconds lost affect the pipe throughput?
Let's say we're working at the most efficient possible situation. And every 185 seconds the pipe stands still for the 25 seconds of loading (160/185). That's 86.486% uptime.
Presuming you're using both inputs with double buffers for a continuous full 600m³/m. That's 13.513% lost for a total and maximum of 518.__918__m³/m throughput.
This is entirely on the idea that you're on the goldilocks zone of a station loop. Let's say your track is only half as long. 185 - 50 = 135 (animations from both stations). 135 / 2 = 67,5. 67,5 + 50 = 117,5.
25 seconds downtime over 117,5 seconds (92,5/117,5) is 78.723~% uptime. For a total of 472,34~m³/m over the same 600m³.
Conclusion: Ideally you would always be at least between these two rates. Seeing if your track is shorter, there's no real downside. And if it's longer, you'll add another train so the track time effectively halves.
inb4 tl;dr's
wind spade
tl;dr trains are great, if not, add more cars/trains xD
celest vault
Honestly, I just wanted to know what I'd have to do to make a flawless oil transport system.
So I calculated it.
wind spade
how do you define flawless in this case?
celest vault
No downtime, least amount of freight cars possible.
wind spade
oh so optimized for smallest number of cars that can still carry what you need
celest vault
Yeppers
wind spade
I see
I was thinking about adding a train throughput calculator, though there's still a lot of unknowns
celest vault
Right now that means that every... 12 pipes you'd only need 5 cars?
Or rather. Currently the way to get to know how many cars you need comes down to input / 472. Which seems to be the magic number.
wind spade
you have a lot of variables:
- what are you transporting
- stack size
- liquid/fluid
- train loop length
- number of stations
- number of locos/cars
- track shape
- track length
- track elevation
it's pretty hard to generalize all of this into a single equation. If I could do some observations and tests and figure out some relations between these, I could come up with a decent estimation
near fractal
That would be great
celest vault
I literally did just generalize all of that into a single equation. I said it was liquid. I said it was just station A/B in a loop. Measuring the time would include track shape/length/elevation.
wind spade
well I was just continuing my message about a train loop calculator, it wasn't related to your msg
celest vault
o-k
wind spade
though I think in your case you're missing the loop time. You'd need more cars for longer loops, so not sure how that's included in the /472
wait
celest vault
472 is the minimum. The max loop time can be 185 seconds. If it's above that, add more trains.
wind spade
had to re-read it
celest vault
I mathed today \o/ My brain ded now
wind spade
I guess you still need at least some info about the train loop to be able to precisely calculate anything
celest vault
Yas!
All you need to do is time your loop
...the idea I got from you btw. I figured "Let's calculate it from the most ideal loop time."
wind spade
I think some experimentation should be done in terms of avg speed
because if you test with 1 loco and then have 1 loco + 4 cars, I guess the loop will be slower?
celest vault
Good point. Adding more cars will definitely affect your speed.
wind spade
so you'd need to find how many cars per one loco so that it doesn't change the loop time
e.g. in Factorio it's 1:2 iirc
celest vault
This I would not know. x)
near fractal
Isnt it possible to programe a calculator which gives you the how many intems per minute or m3 in fluids can a train do?
celest vault
That would now theoretically be possible. The only input you'd have is how long your loop is.
...oh and obviously what your actual input is.
near fractal
Yes, the problem is to calculate the time the train takes between stations
celest vault
And even then you have to give the choice if you want to add more trains, or more freight platforms.
wind spade
or more cars
uh
yeah, that's the same as freight platforms lol
ignore me, it's late
well I guess I could make a simple one like this
near fractal
Yes, but that you can just manual insert, the problem is to just calculate the speed
wind spade
you just need ride time + how much/min you want to move
near fractal
Yes, we just need to know how much can a train move per minute
wind spade
well... no. The other way around. You need to know how much you want to move
although your case works as well, but usually you ask "how many cars do I need to move my stuff" rather than "I built a train, what can I do with it"
celest vault
And I already calculated exactly that. :B
wind spade
I guess we're talking generic trains now, not just liquid 🙂
celest vault
Well yeah. I just calculated a specific scenario.
near fractal
Yes, would need to be generic
although your case works as well, but usually you ask "how many cars do I need to move my stuff" rather than "I built a train, what can I do with it"
Yes, i see, but you would also like to be able to calculate a choo choo loop you already made
celest vault
Ah, you want to calculate it the other way. I'd still say that at that point you'd want to know how many trains you need, and not if your train is sufficient. Because calculating the former automatically tells you if the latter is true.
mental geyser
can you imagine the math real life engineers had to do when working on train infrastructures
celest vault
Train infrastructures? Fairly sure it went "We have this many people here who want to go somewhere over there, so by these calculations, we should have this many trains." Not sure if that was done by the engineers at all tbh. Unless you mean the tracks, and the trains itself?
nimble ridge
liquid trains are useless garbage @ me
vale surge
you're not wrong
celest vault
You can say what you want. I already mathed that they're pretty hecking useful.
nimble ridge
math wont make you good at the game it'll make perfectly bad factories using the perfect number of bad solutions
celest vault
Yes, making 1 train track is obviously a much worse solution than making 6 pipes across half the map.
nimble ridge
A: dont transport liquids, transport solids.
celest vault
Why?
nimble ridge
beaucse liquid transport is garbage
vale surge
correct ^
celest vault
And I already used math to prove that wrong.
vale surge
ladies and gents we got a math wiz
nimble ridge
B: dont waste your time transporting 1000 gallons of oil xd do your processing there and just bring back the plastic/rubber in a single belt xd
vale surge
i wanna see this math
nimble ridge
whip out your spreadsheets daddy
celest vault
And up until you're actually going to support your claims, I'm just going to call you a troll.
nimble ridge
pfft
boreal cypress
i use the quarter liquid mod :3 no problems anymore :D
celest vault
mental geyser
actually there's probably situations where you have less oil to transport than the end product
vale surge
lemme just bring 7500m^3/min of oil to my mega base and kill my frame rate making a ton of, well, everything at my base... seems good
oh but the math checks out so yeah we're cool
mental geyser
which may make it worthwhile to transport the oil
celest vault
Just because you have a shitty computer doesn't mean it's worse.
celest vault
Oh, look, not just a troll, also a bigot.
boreal cypress
https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/734498211129065554
@celest vault nice one :) good explanation
nimble ridge
bigot? thats rich. anyways have fun spending the next 40hrs of your save building liquid trains
vale surge
https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/734498211129065554
@celest vault yes fine, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's not the pc it's the game being unoptimized
simple as that, you can have a 2080 TI and still run barely 20fps at times
boreal cypress
water is one one the only valid liquid that you should transport, for oil you should produce them locally, but that count for most other ores too
nimble ridge
there's a reason every youtuber with a 2080ti has medium settings on and still cant run through thier base
vale surge
so fine, let's be super smart and come up with an insane track solution to transport a metric shitload of water and oil to a base for no reason at all other than to make it look pretty?
and to sacrifice framerate which you (don't?) have a problem with?
celest vault
Funny, because you use so much more water than oil.
boreal cypress
i only transport water in for bauxite
celest vault
Why not move the bauxite to the water?
vale surge
I run a crisp 70-90fps on my base perimeter & minimum 30fps inside my base, mainly storage room, this is because all the machines and hyper tubes / windows render in simultaneously
bauxite - south
water - north
boreal cypress
becauce i builded the bauxite train first and than i looked into the recipe xD
vale surge
more like southwest & northeast I suppose, but it would go through my base either way
nimble ridge
i make 1000+ turbofuel at my base, and the only train i have is used to transport many small amounts of different items to and from my base, and as far as i'm concerned that is thier only valid use until you make a loop around the entire map to exploit every node
vale surge
and I like having all my water in 1 place before you suggest "use water from closer to the bauxite then"
celest vault
Yeah, that's a good way to deal with water.
vale surge
then there's also the problem of getting limestone & quartz to that same location for silica, not to mention coal & a ton of copper ingots (the latter not an issue here)
I actually have thought about making a massive, and I mean massive aluminium foundry like right on the edge of the red forest, bringing all the maps bauxite to that spot, but it just seemed like a waste of time
nimble ridge
for single items use belts, for 8 different items use a train thats 8 cars long. thier use is in simplicity, not throughput. belts and pipes will always be superior in that aspect unless you are going thousands of meters through non-paved land in which case slapping down a rail can be fine
vale surge
correct, trains are perfect for sorting
nimble ridge
can they add a bot to the server that bans anyone that uses trucks?
vale surge
especially post-processing, since you never have to worry about using multi-carriage trains for 1 item - I mean, unless you harvest a whole swamp and want to bring everything back somehow
nimble ridge
legitimate question
vale surge
then well, that's an issue
can they add a bot to the server that bans anyone that uses trucks?
I wish
vale surge
The only way I would use trucks is for pure aesthetic with x3-roads mod
empty hemlock
nope, no account linking with the game possible
vale surge
make a literal highway
celest vault
Can they add a bot to the server for any elitist dingleberries who think that their way is the only correct way to play this game?
nimble ridge
YO CAN A MOD CHANGE MY SERVER NICKNAME TO THE DINGLEBERRY THAT HATES FURRIES
vale surge
Can they add a bot to the server for any elitist dingleberries who think that their way is the only correct way to play this game?
clearly shooting shots at one person there
boreal cypress
then there's also the problem of getting limestone & quartz to that same location for silica, not to mention coal & a ton of copper ingots (the latter not an issue here)
@vale surge i need a shitload of copper ingots ... 18k per minute and only 1,2k iron and 2k caterium
celest vault
Oh yes. I'm the one shooting shots.
nimble ridge
and you're in the math/meta channel, not the inefficiencies and personal bias channel
boreal cypress
<@&387163995947270144>
vale surge
Oh yes. I'm the one shooting shots.
I will happily shoot shots because in a math and meta channel, I would like to hear an argument
not just a I'm right or you're right type of deal, I genuinely would change something if I saw fit
celest vault
This is indeed #math-and-meta Which I've been doing. You've only been critiquing, antagonizing, and being rude.
vale surge
but there's no reason for me to
nimble ridge
you say trains are good cuz you like, i say trains are bad beacuse they are
vale surge
how is trying to find meta being rude?
celest vault
Wow..
vale surge
I'm being completely serious, I'm sorry if I hurt your feeling but jesus this is discord not kindergarten
nimble ridge
"elitist dingleberries who think that their way is the only correct way to play this game?" when meta defines the single most optimal way to play the game
stone orbit
just popping in there are no need for insults
vale surge
soz
stone orbit
this isn't kindergarten agreed, so don't call people names
celest vault
nimble ridge
wdym i stand by the fact im a dingleberry he was right, i dont know what that means but i'll stick with it
celest vault
I feel like shit like this deserves instantbans, tbqh.
nimble ridge
mhm and thats invalid like disabled AND wrong
celest vault
<@&387163995947270144>
dark badge
knock it off
boreal cypress
knock knock
dark badge
one more comment on this topic and mutes will happen
vale surge
hiski, wtf is transport fever 2
nimble ridge
ok but i hope you know i will always be a belt supremacist, trains are slow, unreliable and bad
boreal cypress
the sequel to Transport Fever which is a sequel to Train Fever (which is inspired by Transport Tycoon)
celest vault
. . .
nimble ridge
anyways ive got some ~200 fuel generators to slap down anyone know a good place to do it in the NW
celest vault
nimble ridge
or should i not deface the land and do it in the ocean outside of the map, it'll take 4 pipes of turbo so idm the distance that isnt hard to run
boreal cypress
its up to you, build whereever you want
vale surge
anyways ive got some ~200 fuel generators to slap down anyone know a good place to do it in the NW
smack in the middle of the rocky desert 800m in the sky, because why not.
nimble ridge
i like to kinda form my factories to the land, not just cuz of aesthetics but it makes each playthrough a bit different
@vale surge BEACUSE PUMPS YOU PSYCHOPATH
vale surge
but -
nimble ridge
are you trying to have all 200 generators moving the liquid xd
boreal cypress
you can use a train to get the liquid up :3 so you dont need pumps
nimble ridge
trains -cannot- do inclines
vale surge
no no no, just pack it all like an even bigger psychopath then unpack it all 780m in the sky, 1 pump, done
trains can do 2m (or the 4m, much easier to build with, double ramp)
nimble ridge
luckily those have been good enough so far
vale surge
to be fair if you genuinely want to do a sky platform for your power then you could just pack the 600 odd oil and send it up which isn't too bad honestly... that should just about do 200 gens, right?
of turbo fuel, that is
hot ginkgo
A train on a fancy spiral would work too. The fluid cars are fairly decent now.
boreal cypress
ohgod pls no bando xD
vale surge
can you spiral trains? they don't turn while going up without clipping do they?
nimble ridge
when they first came out i laughed so hard at the 300m^3
vale surge
so you'd need to send up, level out, turn, send up, level out, turn, etc
hot ginkgo
@boreal cypress you know you want too. I mean it looks simple
nimble ridge
i actually used the packaged water/diluted fuel recipe, ended up stumbling on some intresting math
vale surge
I must admit it sounds like a fun experiment, I never thought to do it as soon as I nearly had a track clip through a foundation on like the smallest incline imaginable
i actually used the packaged water/diluted fuel recipe, ended up stumbling on some intresting math
it is possibly the best alt in the game imo, the diluted packed fuel
mental geyser
tbh I feel like trains should be more accessible in early game
nimble ridge
pumps use SIGNIFICANTLY less power than refineries for packaging so you really gotta be doin some vertical for it to be worth it from a power perspective
nimble ridge
alright i might have to build one for the aesthetics
it looks like a marble maze track
mental geyser
train spirals exist irl dont they
vale surge
this tonight with John Oliver, marbles in ....
satisfactory?
celest vault
You can not do the thumbnail shit by putting < and > around the link @hot ginkgo
nimble ridge
ok but for real though lets start a fight, do y'all use hyper tube cannons or loops
celest vault
Can even edit previous messages to fix it.
hot ginkgo
That's handy. Thanks @celest vault!
glacial hemlock
Cannon
celest vault
Cannon
nimble ridge
where's my loop gang ;-;
glacial hemlock
Wiki
mental geyser
ah
nimble ridge
cannons are easy make em big and make em smaller t'ill you dont die but still hit light speed
simple jetty
I’ve gotten a little lost, how many refineries are needed for a pure oil node with 3 power shards? to make plastic
celest vault
Got nothing against loops, I like that they're lower power usage, but I prefer being able to adjust my speed.
mental geyser
pure oil node maxes out at 1 power shard
glacial hemlock
@simple jetty 84
nimble ridge
hold up wait that cant work @simple jetty isnt that more than 300
simple jetty
Wow that’s as quick
mental geyser
84? that seems like a lot depending on what you want to do
simple jetty
To make plastic
glacial hemlock
84 is the answer to the oil, the refineries and everything
mental geyser
I mean for the basic recipe each refinery takes 30 oil per min, and with the max 300/min output from an extractor the basic recipe will require 10 extractors plus a few to process the heavy oil residue
vale surge
well, 84 if you have all the alts required
nimble ridge
i mean i'm using 960 total crude oil and making just over 1000 turbofuel from it, you can do anything with as little oil as you want as long as you're fine building too many refineries
vale surge
there's never too many refineries in this game it seems
nimble ridge
if i had to guess im probably using not many more than like 70
vale surge
can't escape them
mental geyser
cries in 800 plastic from 1200 oil
celest vault
Needs more recycling.
vale surge
I want a mod that makes refineries like 3 walls tall, instead of 8
glacial hemlock
@mental geyser haha lol
boreal cypress
@nimble ridge with all alternates you can have 2133,34 Turbo Fuel with 960 crude oil
vale surge
cries in 800 plastic from 1200 oil
wtf
mental geyser
I'll turn that into 3600 plastic when I can
glacial hemlock
@vale surge scale down your refineries to palm size
nimble ridge
i know but this is my first power source from coal and i only have so much sulfur near me so i settled
glacial hemlock
Micromanagement mods i think?
nimble ridge
if i was doing oil from already having 20k+ mw/h i'd go nuts but a man needs a place to stand before he can jump xd
vale surge
I'll make sure to install, I haven't really looked into overmodding my game since I want to fully finish everything I wanted to do in update 3 then start over with every mod that, well, doesn't overlap code of another mod
nimble ridge
thats why im using those 3 nodes near the gorge and am saving the gold mine in the ocean for later
glacial hemlock
Yes, mods sometimes doesn't compatible to each other, and if crash happens, you can't complaint to the dev
vale surge
I made oil islands into 2700 rubber / 900 plastic & making a bit more plastic up north, didn't need it when I built the mega factory at the islands
glacial hemlock
@vale surge 👍
vale surge
yeah I've read that some mods mess with the vanilla code which I'm not a big fan of tbh
nimble ridge
oh also this is far from a blueprint but if anyone wants to stop using cannons and evolve to the next plane of existence this is how you do the loop
mental geyser
all mods mess with vanilla code technically no?
nimble ridge
vale surge
I simply use rpg/exosuit/area actions, solely for setting recipes on hundreds of machines at once
mental geyser
although some build on top of it
vale surge
oh and x3-roads & lights for aesthetics
nimble ridge
i dont use mods at all so it can be a bit of a pain doing what i do but i dont mind
i used to play alot of mc lol
vale surge
all mods mess with vanilla code technically no?
a lot built on top, not directly impacting core game
hot ginkgo
I use a ton of mods. No issues at all.
vale surge
i used to play alot of mc lol
even in my minecraft days I played a ton of ftb so modding isn't really anything new in games for me
one that I'm mega interested in is the farming one & one that adds loads of stuff to the game
lemme find the name of the latter
prod+
do u use them @hot ginkgo ?
hot ginkgo
I'll PM you. This is not the place for mod talk.
vale surge
ok ty
mental geyser
does this server prohibit mod talk or something
nimble ridge
no it just helps keep the chats organized
vale surge
it's probably more of, this is math&meta, and mods heavily shift the meta, so
mental geyser
o lul
nimble ridge
there should be a mods channel though, with how prevalent they are
nimble ridge
that works too lmao
wind spade
mods are not here to keep it separated, so that people don't get confused
nimble ridge
yea green i said that not knowing there was a dedicated server for it mb
devout flax
anyone good with load balancing by any chance?
stark bronze
What cant be done with manifolds
devout flax
not really clear on how to set up a manifold
barren elm
Make a line of splitters
Make sure the belts are saturated with items
Manifold complete
So long as the sum total of all your outputs doesn't exceed your input (ie you've got 120 iron ore, so don't build more than 4 smelters) then it will balance it for you
devout flax
how about 240/min iron ore?
stark bronze
Are you using more than that
devout flax
I have got at least 3 containers full of ingots, plus containers capturing stuff from rods, screws, plates, rotors, and reinforced iron plates for attempting straight load balancing - or so I presume
it all ends with a single assembler for Smart Plating
Not sure if it's within the rules to suggest joining the session, I get the distinct impression I'm not explaining this all that well
stark bronze
Just make sure your machines wont use more than 240 and splitter all the way
devout flax
copy that
dusk moon
Can someone help me out. I can't seem to figure out where I need to set the clock speed on 5 coal factories to get them to eat 30 coal / minute. 59% has em eating 25 per minute.
queen rivet
You can enter directly on the item count now
abstract copper
They eat according to how much power you're using
glacial hemlock
Enter item/min instead of clock % may cause some rounding issue, make sure to check the machine by re-opening its UI
dusty slate
Hey, I'm a bit confused. Overclocking my coal generator seems to be MORE efficient; at 250% it makes 250% power but only uses 200% resources. I thought it was supposed to be... the other way around?
Am I losing my mind?
barren elm
Probably, power generators don't work that way
A piece of coal has a set amount of energy that it produces, and a power generator burns through that energy to feed your grid until the coal is consumed
So a 250% overclocked coal generator just burns through that set amount of energy at 250% speed
There's no way to change how much energy 1 piece of coal provides (nor any other fuel), so there's no way to make your power gens more efficient
I'm pretty sure it's not entirely linear too, so a coal gen at 250% speed won't burn 1 coal every 1.6 sec as expected
dusty slate
Yeah, it burns it every 2 seconds
The thing that confuses me is that for everything else, you're getting a BAD ratio for overclocking. But for power, it's good?
abstract copper
no, because it burns slower you're not producing as much power from it
e.g. burning 1 piece of coal gives you X MW of power. So burning that across 4 seconds gives you a total of X MW of power for that time, whereas burning 2 pieces across 2 seconds each (4 seconds total) gives you 2 * X MW of power (double the power)
so burning one piece per 1.6 seconds would give you more power than burning one piece per 2 seconds
(disclaimer: the times I mentioned there were made up)
think of it like any other factory - where "burning" a piece of coal is the same as "producing" a fixed amount of power
abstract copper
from burning faster, you get the power produced by the coal more often
dusty slate
There's more power being added into this equation from somewhere. 15 coal/minute is becoming 30 coal/minute. But 75 power is becoming 187.5 power.
barren elm
You're not getting any extra power
dusty slate
I literally am though.
barren elm
Overclocking a coal gen increases the speed at which it burns coal
But the energy comes from the coal
And that energy amount per coal is fixed
barren elm
You get 151.8 MW from a 250% speed coal gen
abstract copper
shouldn't it be using 37.5 coal/min?
barren elm
Yes it should, but it isn't
You'd think it'd burn 1 coal every 1.6 sec at 250% speed, but it burns 1 coal roughly every 2 sec
Hence why the coal gen UI is saying it consumes 30/sec at 250% speed
But you're not getting 178mw or whatever from that
abstract copper
ahh
dusty slate
barren elm
Yeah the UI is wrong
dusty slate
So what's actually happening
abstract copper
ahh
barren elm
Your power grid might be right
You're burning coal at double speed, so you're getting double power, ~150mw
abstract copper
on the left hand side it says 151 MW
dusty slate
Ah
barren elm
Yeah that's the correct value
dusty slate
Ok. I was very confused why there's two different values.
barren elm
That's understandable because it's honestly not intuitive if not outright misleading
abstract copper
Generally it's not worth it to overclock coal plants at all I think
They're cheap enough to build more of
as long as you have the space
barren elm
It's worth it if you've already got shards in all your extractors/oil things, since you don't lose efficiency unlike with production structures
But yeah all you save is space and potentially some fps
dusty slate
i need both of those
hidden wigeon
All the underclocking and overclocking being good versus bad makes understanding the game a lot more of a challenge. The main hurdle for me with over or underclocking is understanding when the UI might be inaccurate, which seems more often when underclocking. And also when making diagrams of my planned machines. It is hard to account for so much variability if I might remove a machine from my conveyer line due to overclocking its sibling machine.
As a hard rule it always always always is worth overclocking miners right? (Assuming your grid can handle it plus your belts are fast enough)
queen rivet
Pretty much since your production limit is ultimately based on raw resources, and there's limited nodes
Even if you are just thinking for the region you're in.
weak helm
I don't understand why power generators overclocking isn't linear
empty hemlock
because no overclocking is linear with power
weak helm
why?) Effectiveness of pgens doesn't change.
Overclocking of pgens should change effectiveness ot be linear. Both ways are fine.
Anyway liner on fuel.
wind spade
@weak helm because it's a drawback of overclocking
glacial hemlock
I guess this is one way the game trying to hint you which to overclock and which not to
stark bronze
Is heavy oil residue or polymer resin better with diluted packaged fuel
wind spade
HOR
stark bronze
checked with your calculator, polymer resin sucks so much that i cant even trick it into using it lol
wanton axle
@stark bronze I send polymer resin directly into an AWESOME sink LOL
stark bronze
i disabled normal plastic and rubber and it just nopes and use normal fuel recipe
and im not going to sink them as that will be my primary plastic source
wanton axle
I get mine the normal way. I use the heavy residue for making petroleum coke
stark bronze
oh god hope i wont need coke
spark beacon
about that
wanton axle
used in making scrap aluminum during tier 7
eternal crown
Is there a calculator detailed enough that will let me tell it my inputs and what I want to make, then chart out how many of unit I need to make? Closest I've seen so far is the Daniel2013 calculator, but it still makes me work backwards for the information, and doesn't a complete break down of buildings needed
wind spade
try this one, it allows you to work the other way and maximize your input from limited raw materials
eternal crown
I've tried that one, but I find it even messier to be honest. So far, I'm still just working from my own hand drawn templates and calculations.
wind spade
what did you find messy? I'll be happy for any feedback
eternal crown
I found it really useful at first, but the graph that it outputs can be a real cluster of a mess and hard to read, especially when you start getting to stuff like Heavy Modular Frame. It's possible I just need to spend more time in the tool to familiarize myself with it
hidden wigeon
moving the boxes is the trick
eternal crown
Ahhh! Ok.
hidden wigeon
I know what you mean Vurve. I think a 5 second intro tutorial with a hint like "move the boxes" would be a huge benefit
wind spade
it's pretty hard to find out how to lay out the graph and in some cases it's almost impossible
hidden wigeon
like, a quick "make an iron rod graph" with that hint would be huge for your page
wind spade
I think it does way better job than it did in the older version
hidden wigeon
you have a wonderful tool. but I too had that "why is my text overlapping on something as simple as make a modular frame" feeling
wind spade
tutorial is definitely something that's planned, but considering that the tool still needs a lot of major features, it's not high on the priority list
hidden wigeon
your color choice is good, the drop boxes are super handy, everything makes sense.
eternal crown
And perhaps I missed it, but I don't recall seeing anything like "With an input of 540 iron, you need 11 smelters and 5 forges to make X"
wind spade
you can set 540 iron limit in Items, Input and then set X in Production and choose maximize instead of items / minute
hidden wigeon
it sounds silly but I think from a UI perspective my first instead was to scroll in to the graph rather than click it.
first instinct*
eternal crown
Thank you Greeny. That's exactly what I've been looking for then. I'll play around with it tonight after work.
wind spade
yeah I'll probably put some hint texts around for the time being. There's a rework of the result screen coming soon, so probably with that
lucid needle
hey, i have 900 coal/mn and 2400 water/mn, how do i do the math to calculate the max amounts of coal gens and if i have the correct water input ?
wind spade
you need 2700 water for 900 coal
with 2400 water you can run 53.33333 coal gens, they'll use 800 coal
ashen pelican
Hey all, anyone know if it's still true that a power pole can have unlimited capacity go through it?
I've been trying to remap my power grid, but seems like the poles themselves are blowing fuses, not just burners.
lucid needle
no power capacity cap to my knowledge, and there is nowhere indicated either so i guess it's unlimited
you must have some power source not plugged and all consumption blowing the fuse
eager solar
a pole with a blown fuse means that the power source it is connected to has a problem, it doesn't come from the pole
ashen pelican
Gotcha, man, I've been going back and forth to the burners and nothing seems blown though. Very weird.
wind spade
may be just you using more power than you can generate
eager solar
it just allows you to check the power grid, the blown fuse is the same for all the network
ashen pelican
Hm, will definitely check it out again. I'll just take another look. Been bothering me all day.
Thanks, yall!
celest vault
Ohhay greeny. I noticed that in other parts of your tool you could double-click parts to follow the parts. I was thinking if it were maybe possible to add that mechanic to the main calculator to indicate that you're already making those parts. Would be a lot quicker than having to go into item/input, find the item, and then having to input the correct number.
Mind you, just an idea, I have a feeling that given with how often things refresh it might not be the easiest to implement.
wind spade
it's not a bad idea to collapse the tree behind the node, however it's pretty hard to do this, considering how many loops and junctions are there
imagine just a RIP production (pretty simple):
if you'd doubleclick the iron plate constructors, what should be the result? I can't hide the smelters, as they are also used for screws.
celest vault
Right, at that point it'd "grey out" the constructors, remove the nodes behind it, then recalculate the nodes that are still needed there.
Or, seeing there's no nodes in between, there would be no nodes to remove in this situation.
wind spade
well that's the simple example, what about loops?
if I remove packaged water here, what should happen?
celest vault
I'd want to say don't allow loops, because they're all dependent on each other, or disable all parts of the loop.
And give a warning of why it's not allowed, or something. Given you can easily figure out if it is indeed a loop.
wind spade
the first one wouldn't be hard to implement, but would be super confusing for the user imo
celest vault
Well, that's why the warning.
Generally speaking it's not possible to already have a closed loop setup.
I mean, sure it's possible to have it, but it wouldn't remotely be functional.
wind spade
oh I thought you'll use it as marking stuff as done
like "I built X buildings, let's doubleclick that"
lucid needle
finally done with that, ty for the info, now coming in 3km3/mn water
celest vault
Kinda? It's more like in situations where like, you're already making a bunch of computers/m, and then you decide "I want to make super computers", the graph is ridiculously large, so you're like "Oh I need this many computers for a super computer, but I'm already making that.", so you doubleclick the computer, and it'll adjust the graph, make a way smaller one without all the oil bs, and it'll have a much easier overview.
lucid needle
celest vault
So yeah, you could use it as a checklist.
ashen pelican
mother-of-god.gif, Reva
lucid needle
x)
celest vault
That just hurts to look at, why not trains.
lucid needle
cuz it only has 50meters to travel, the lake to the raised platform
eager solar
So you want a way to use parts as starting point instead of the raw mat?
wind spade
hm, how's that doubleclicking different from putting the computers into the input?
celest vault
Why a raised platform!? Why not build over the water!
wind spade
(apart from being slightly faster)
celest vault
It's quicker, greeny, more userfriendly. I already said it was the same.
ashen pelican
Why do you go vertical immediately? @lucid needle
lucid needle
because i still wanna have the lake visible even with the extractors on it
wind spade
well there's this issue that I already have plans on what happens after doubleclick on a node in production
lucid needle
and why not
celest vault
Then it was a moot point from the start. :V
lucid needle
@ashen pelican cuz 24 extractors will take some space on the lake, so i'll just gather all the pipes in the middle then raise it
wind spade
so not sure what could the alternate way to do collapse it
if I decide to implement it, as it seems like a lot of work for little gain
what about a solution that would instead of collapsing the graph just add that amount of stuff to input?
lucid needle
i like unnecessary super symmetrical stuff #screenshots
wind spade
so it would recalculate, but work the same in the end
chilly wigeon
Greeny give link to your tool
ashen pelican
lol i dig how it looks, just wasn't sure if you were doing it for some sort of efficiency thing. was watching a youtube video and they had the same kind of set up.
wind spade
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ or first one in pins
celest vault
Idunno, all I can say is that I found the ability to collapse from this calculator absolutely invaluable: https://legorin.github.io/satisfactory-calculator/calc.html
With yours it takes a click, another click, finding the item; possibly typing, another click, inputting numbers which you might as well put at a ridiculously high number because you get to see how much you need anyway, and one more click to go back. I wouldn't call that "slightly faster".
wind spade
well one of the reasons why it works there is because that tool doesn't deal with byproducts and doesn't have multiple product recipes iirc
so they don't have these loops and the tree is pretty much just a tree
celest vault
Not sure what you understand as "multiple product recipes", but you can add any product you like to that.
wind spade
will the solution that I suggested be enough for you? that you can click on the node (or something, tbd) and a menu will pop up where one of the menu items would be add to input
multiple product recipe = recipe that produces a byproduct
celest vault
It sadly doesn't do that, no, because it hasn't been update in a while.
wind spade
yeah, without the byproduct recipes the recipe tree is much simpler and it doesn't deal with issues like I said - loops
celest vault
But yes, an option like that does sound great. Like metaphorical right click to either Add # to input, or Add item to input, one being the exact number, the other being the entire item (virtually infinite because it tells you how much you need anyway), if you know you're making that much already anyway, like the 900 rubber recycle build.
wind spade
would cause a recalculation so a possible stuff rearangement, but I guess it's still better than not having it (and legorin's does rearange stuff as well)
also rearangement of stuff after recalculation is something I'd like to tackle as well
celest vault
Well, given with how you weigh individual items and it can entirely rethrow the graph, I'm not sure how you could do that. ...other than checking if every single node has changed before reworking everything.
fresh geyser
should i use bad oil node or good oil node for plastic?
celest vault
Depends on how much you want?
wind spade
@fresh geyser why not both?
fresh geyser
i was thinking about using the pure one for fuel
celest vault
Overclocked impure = 150, so 2 of them is 300 for max pipe flow. Overclocking normal = 300, so that's perfect. And overclocking pure is 600, while 300 is the max.
wind spade
@celest vault well my idea for the rearangement prevention is this:
- save the current position of nodes
- query the new result
- if the new result has the same set of recipes as previously (or a subset of them), reuse the positions
- otherwise try to rearrange
fresh geyser
ok
celest vault
Sounds good. Would definitely add some QoL
I can remember re-arranging it very often when I was trying to figure out the rubber/plastic recycle loop.
lucid needle
wait, can oil nodes produce more than 300m3/mn ? are they planning to let us have pipes with more than 300m3 minute ? xD
celest vault
Doubt it. But you can also overclock pure nodes to 960/m, which; while the MK6 exists, a belt suporting that is not in the game yet.
near fractal
i think they tried to add pipes mk2 but they removed cuz they were bugged
lucid needle
i want caterium pipes, makes the water go brrr
sand garnet
Nah mk1 originally wass meant to be 600
celest vault
Interesting
near fractal
oh really?
sand garnet
But it was bugged so they put it to 300
near fractal
oh
eager solar
a mk2 sounds like a pretty likely thing to implement at some point
lucid needle
i feel like every big update probably is a disaster for mega factories
near fractal
if they change to 600 again im gonna have to remake my entire fuel production
celest vault
If there's gonna be an mk2, it better be better than just double.
near fractal
or mk3 pipes
eager solar
my oil lines should be fine even with better pipes
lucid needle
i want mk27 belts to gather all the damn iron of the map on one of them bad boïs
eager solar
woudl have to exploit that potential tho
lucid needle
and also travel through time on blade runners
eager solar
kek, mk27 belts: pierce through reality itself
celest vault
Mk.∞ For teleporting your items instantly.
Mk.∞², for grabbing items from the past.
lucid needle
watch me sink 27M points per minute
celest vault
Mk.∞³, for grabbing items from any possible alternate reality.
lucid needle
possible to make a fluid overflow ?
sand garnet
Use gravity
worn galleon
Has anyone managed a 1/2 to 2.5/5 splitter array (without manifolding)?
eager solar
there are way to have one line split into 5 so the 2 to 5 would be a belt balancer using that on each line, 1 to 2.5 would prolly be a 1 to 3 belt blancer with the 3rd one split in two and reinjected
worn galleon
hmm
eager solar
I guess, didn't actually do it
worn galleon
I'm still burning braincells on this problem. 😛
I have 100u/sec from two outputs that I need to feed into 5 inputs at 20u/sec
eager solar
spend most of my day studying so I'm not going to burn through the few cells I have left for now, sorry 