@timid hull overclocked?
#math-and-meta
sand garnet
urban swan
say i have a normal iron ingot smelter (30/min output) feeding only a single iron rod constructor (15/min input). Once the buffer between them fills, the smelter will drop to 50% efficiency because half its output is blocked.
Over time, does that smelter consume the same, or more, energy than if I had manually underclocked it to 50% before the output clogged?
woeful skiff
My understanding is it will consume less if you underclock it.
If it's running 50% of the time, it'd use 50% power, but if it's underclocked to 50%, I think it's something more like 33%. (I don't know the exact math, but less anyway)
PS: according to the wiki my memory was correct. I take the wiki with a grain of salt, but the info there matches with my recent experience in-game.
urban swan
Good to know; thanks
wind spade
constructor = 4 MW
constructor running roughly 50% of the time = 2 MW
constructor underclocked to 50% = 1.32 MW
savings = 0.68 MW or around 34%
astral hornet
Wait wut, it's more power efficient to use 7 water extractors for 14 coal gens, clocked at 75% (12.6MW per or total of 88.2MW) then use 6 at 88% (16.3MW per or 97.8MW)
that's decided then, I'll just always do "two water extractors per coal gen)
3 extractors per pipe to feed 6 coal generators.
woeful skiff
If you follow that logic a single extractor for each coal generator clocked to 38% would consume even less. Or, you could build 4 extractors at 10% for each 1 coal generator and that's even less.
cedar mica
or 40 at 1% 😛
astral hornet
lol I guess
drowsy oak
How much of each ressource do you produce for you main storage? Especially Copper Sheets and stuff you need to build
I wanted to max out some nodes and now have a bunch of Copper, Iron and caterium ingots and I'm not sure what to use for further production and how much for producing basic material
woeful skiff
It depends what you intend to build. You'll need some copper sheets for pipes, but if you set up a lot of hypertubes then you need more, for example.
You can use the "todo" list feature to queue up some buildings and get a rough idea of the ratios of the components involved.
drowsy oak
I mean more in general. Do you guys set up extra productions for the basic stuff just to use it for building or just split of/grab out of factorys whatever you need
I have like 1500 copper Ingots waiting to get processed
woeful skiff
For the most part, I pick an end goal (like space elevator parts), and I work backwards from there to figure out how much of each thing I'll need.
drowsy oak
yea that's how i noramlly do it as well ^^ but this time i started the other way around and now i'm a bit lsot haha
woeful skiff
I tend to syphon off resources into containers for building off of those factories, although I build extra constructors for stuff that I know I'm going to use a lot of (belts, tubes, etc)
I'll often have a splitter before the production chain that I can connect if I want storage to prioritize over production, and disconnect if I want production to prioritize over storage. The run-off from the end of the manifold (if any) then always goes into storage. Once storages start to fill up, I start sinking stuff if I'm not consuming those resources.
I manage a lot of stuff by manually connecting / disconnecting specific splitters that I put there for that purpose, including what a lot of people try to build overflow systems to handle.
drowsy oak
That's how I go it rn as well.
I guess I will just try to set some goals of how much I want to produce for my storage ans see what will be left over after this
thx
scarlet marsh
just siphon off your production - once the container fills - then products are no longer siphoned off
untold shell
Hello I have a simple question about splitters. If I have input of 250 items -> splitter -> 2 sides are MKII belts, 3rd side is MKI belt. How much items will each belt get? Will it split 120+120+10? or will it be more like 95+95+60? Or other?
scarlet marsh
if you arent getting your storage at the rate you are consuming the resource - then just build more production
it splits 1/3 out of each junction
when belt capacity is reached then you have a biased split
so mk will be maxed out in your case
mk 1 - 60/m - mk2's get 95/m
untold shell
Cool. Exactly what I wanted to hear 😄 Thank you very much
scarlet marsh
now the real question though is why you arent using mk3 belts since you have them unlocked
untold shell
I need to feed 250 items into 5 machines from which 4 are 60in and last one is 10 in
scarlet marsh
you should still just use mk 3 all the way for that
the machines control the throughput on their own
untold shell
Tha makes it less complicated 😄
clear citrus
You could use all MK3 but as long as each belt is at least as fast as what needs to move across it it makes no difference, so you might as well save encased beams by using slower belts where you can.
untold shell
Thing is. I built a large room and I need to fill it up, so this is a case of unnecessary overcomplicated things 🙂
And there is something that I like with overcomplicated stuff
urban swan
If you follow that logic a single extractor for each coal generator clocked to 38% would consume even less. Or, you could build 4 extractors at 10% for each 1 coal generator and that's even less.
@woeful skiff I wonder how far that goes. If you could make infinite extractors without all the real world pains (finding space and parts, configuring and connecting them) could you make +INF of them and asymptotically approach zero power usage for infinite water?
been a long time since i thought about mathematical limits lol
frigid orchid
yo guys i kinda need some help, im making the modular frames with 100 % efficiency, modular frames cost 12 iron rods per min, im making three of them. however ill need to make the 3 constructors constructing iron rods for the modular frames, how do i split that extra 3 off per constructor?
cedar mica
Just down clock, so you make 12 per constuctor
frigid orchid
smh im 'special'
cedar mica
15 to 12, is 1:5 splitter setup...
glacial hemlock
where possible, you should always maximize the production of the belt material. And with the alts! of course.
but considering the manual building speed, it is not necessary to go over 60/min
like, 60 EIB/min should be pretty good.
haughty quail
Can someone tell me the practicality behind trains? Seems like it’s more of a struggle to setup the stations and track for a system that struggles to keep up with the throughput of conveyors. What more can you accomplish with trains?
dim thicket
Quite the contrary, if you're not going over TOO far of a distance, they are much faster than belts and can ship multiple item types at once
tawny chasm
you're always limited by the speed of the belt though @dim thicket
for loading/unloading
technically the throughput can be higher than a belt though, yes
but not usefully
tawny chasm
oh are we talking about train stations and not truck stations? but still
i meant limited by the speed of the best belt tech you have
sand garnet
trains > belts > trucks in that order
dim thicket
And you can make more inputs per item. I can unload 6 belts of whatever if I set up 3 stations
And that's all on one, pretty inexpensive, line
Only reason you'd avoid trains is if you don't have a ton of power. Get your fuel set up first
abstract ridge
How viable is the diluted fuel to turbo fuel alternatives for a mid-late run/any stage of the run
?
scarlet marsh
it is the best from a resource efficiency stanpoint
abstract ridge
yeah i know but man all those refineries
scarlet marsh
yeah thats why i said resource efficiency
you can just make fuel directly and save a few extra steps
its just more wasted oil
but honestly it will take you a lot of refineries to make the turbofuel and even more fuel gens to consume
strong panther
For power right now, I'm using coal generators and water extractors. I have them all clocked 250% so, each coal generator consumes 30 coal per minute. I have a line with 300 coal going over to this area. Can anyone help me figure out how to split that 300 coal into the 10 coal generators using splitters and mergers?
woeful skiff
250% of 15 is more than 30 coal/min
strong panther
It's super weird, when I change the clockspeed and look at how much coal it needs it shows that 100% needs 15, 150% needs about 21, 200% needs about 26, and that 250% needs 30 coal per minute.
woeful skiff
Oh, that's unexpected. I've never oc'd a generator before 🤷
strong panther
Yeah, normally I wouldn't but the location where I'm taking water from is kinda limited so I need to have 10 coal gens overclocked.
woeful skiff
I don't understand your question though. I would use a manifold like I always do.
strong panther
manifold?
woeful skiff
--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | |
X X X X X X```If the splitter splits even amounts won't that not fill all of them? Or does the splitter split into different amounts in this setup?
woeful skiff
It splits 50/50 at each splitter so yes, each one gets less and less at first, but over time as the buffers fill down the line it will run at full efficiency, and every machine gets what it needs as long as the input items/min is enough.
It can take it a while, you can speed that up by manually filling the machines (in this case, coal in the generators)
strong panther
That's super interesting, I had no clue that was a feature. I'm gonna go try that. Thank you so much!
long knot
manifolds are the number one components in factories
fierce ruin
Pipes still confuse the hell out of me
You can get an extraction rate of 600/min with an oil extractor at 250% overclock
But pipes have a capacity of 300/min
Doesn't help that ythe base extraction rate is 120
So you nee 2.5 excractors to fill up a pipe
Pipes make me very angry
And the fact that coal generators need 45/min is even worse
You need 360/min to evenly split the water into generators
Which isn't hard to setup at all it's just annoying because you have a full pipe and then another pipe that's barely being utilized
The 300/min capacity just doesn't work amazingly well with the 120/min base extraction rate of both oil and water extractors, and with how much energy they both use it just isn't a viable strategy to overclock them so they're producing amounts that are easier to work with
Oil extractors aren't the worst because the recipes in the refinery don't have such bad ratios but the water extractors make me very angry
wind spade
@strong panther if you're limited by water, you won't help yourself by OCing generators
water consumption scales with OCing, so it doesn't help much
also yeah, 250% OCed gen only produces around 200% of power (and uses 200% of resources)
glacial hemlock
if it is too easy, it won't be a challenge.
wind spade
@fierce ruin just underclock them then, they'll make 100 each and it works nicely
fierce ruin
yeah i realised underclocking exists but the 45/min needed for coal is still a bit of a pain
so most of that rant is completely negated by underclocking
wind spade
@fierce ruin you can underclock power plants too
fierce ruin
yeah, but power plants aren't extremely cheap and with all things considered i think it's worth the effort to just get maximum power. unless you actually get more power by underclocking and having to use less power total to power them
but i can't be bothered to do that math right now
wind spade
You get the same amount of power per fuel item
wind spade
From e.g. 120 coal / min, you always get the same amount of power
OC only changes number of pps needed
fierce ruin
hm
i'm thinking a bit deeper than that right now. because if that's the case it'd also take more energy to produce the extra pps
wind spade
That's one-time cost tho
fierce ruin
true
wind spade
So it's irrelevant in the long run
fierce ruin
so it really is just a space vs effort thing here
because if you can be bothered to do the math it's a lot more compact
fierce ruin
you don't need shards to underclock
wind spade
Well I mean for OC
fierce ruin
oh yeah
but there's so many slugs that you can easily run even a hundred pps at 250% OC
wind spade
Yeah, but then you don't have enough for all miners 🙂
fierce ruin
the main problem is resources, which you would also need shards for
there's still like 3k slugs total though
wind spade
I mean they can be farmed, but that's super painful to do and costs berries
And you also need to collect them 😛
I can't be bothered tho, I'd just go 3 extractors to 8 gens
wind spade
You just need to not put all extractors on one pipe
wind spade
Or put one extractor at the other end of the pipe
wind spade
EE---GGGGGGGG---E
woeful skiff
So I typed this into google: "12.5 = sqrt(3 * x^2)" and was both surprised and disappointed that it didn't just tell me x = 7.21688. Come on Google, get your shit together.
I love that this video game makes me solve a 3d Pythagorean equation though.
severe field
woeful skiff
I'm running a cross country hypertube, and I wanted to know where and how high to build the towers. A hypertube can extend 12.5 meters foundations max in a straight line. So if I run it along the hypotenuse of a triangle I used pythagoras to figure that out.
If anyone is curious, rounded down it's 9 foundations each direction for a 2d diagonal and 7 foundations for a 3d diagonal, using equilateral sides in both cases.
well, 9 foundations horizontally, you have to double in the vertical because the foundations are 8x4
wait now I think I messed it up. it's 100 meters (12.5 foundations horizontally)
ornate zodiac
@woeful skiff you want wolfram alpha for that: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=12.5+%3D+sqrt(3+*+x^2)
dusky rock
real mvp for that, been trying so long to try and get it set up properly
shy mason
anyone use coke for coal generators when making plastics in tier 4 before generators in tier 5. looks like for each hor (40m3/min) -> coke (120/min) refinery, you can fuel 4.8 coal generators per minute and 2 extractors to drain 40 HOR for power, 4 plastic / 2 rubber refineries worth. (and yes i'm bored on business trip and can't play so been busy making plans.)
you get to make 360 watts for each of those refineries, and spend 190 watts for the 5 refineries and 2 water extractors, so extra 170 watts
naive quartz
Hi Guys, I hope this is the right sub channel. But you seem nerdy enought to have an answer 🙂 what tool are you using to calculate the production line? I started to use draw.io (MS Visio...) and just create a rectangle for each of my buildings and production lines and then connect them based on how much resources go from one to the other... is there any other way that you feel compfortable? here a quick example:
digital cloud
That's good, I just kind of work my way backwards from the final product. I I'll place an assembler (I don't have manufacturers yet), place any other assemblers I need behind it... kind of visualize how many constructors I need behind those, then take it all down and place the assemblers somewhere I think all the needed constructors will fit behind.
clear sedge
I use a pencil, quad-ruled paper, and tape
woeful skiff
what's the tape for?
boreal cypress
for people which are asking what the tape is for
woeful skiff
I almost didn't ask I feel like I'm walking into something.
clear sedge
its for taping the paper together to give a bigger area to work with
glacial hemlock
I use Daniel's calculator
dark badge
is that the greeny one
glacial hemlock
greeny's WIP for update 3
fierce ruin
why would you need a calculator for plotting things out?
long hinge
Faster production of end tier items. Turbomotors/Supercomp. etc. More efficient.
glacial hemlock
Especially with alts
neat sorrel
I have a question about trains
I'm fetching coal at one end of a train station and producing on the other. My factory seems to be consuming coal faster than the train can come back. Is there a way to increase the throughput or do I just have to produce more coal?
woeful skiff
Is the coal supply running out at the source, so it's not keeping up because it's hauling tiny loads of coal each time? Or is there plenty of coal in storage at the source?
neat sorrel
I use a buffer, but it's a pretty short train line, so it doesn't fill up
boreal cypress
so train is never full?
neat sorrel
nop
woeful skiff
It sounds like you need to produce more coal, rather than building extra cars then.
boreal cypress
do u use the buffer like i show?
or just one belt input into the freight station?
neat sorrel
I have a buffer on the output, might need one on the input too
boreal cypress
jeah :D input and output should have the buffer
how much coal do you produce and how much do you use?
neat sorrel
810 for both
woeful skiff
Right, I'd sort that out first. If production < consumption, then the train isn't going to magically fix that.
Ok, well you ruled it out before I managed to finish typing.
boreal cypress
than its just the buffer problem ^^ stations dont load/unload their load while train is docking
timber seal
neat sorrel
I'll try that first and hopefully it fixes the problem. Thanks guys 😄
boreal cypress
Sounds strange, but it is true
@timber seal english server but when you are #looking-for-group-old there is a channel for it
upper tapir
@buoyant turtle
upbeat granite
The setup has the same effect as putting some fluid buffers
I'd recommend using gravity overflow
upbeat granite
Personally i would add a pipe going up to a packaging refinary. Since lower pipes will fill first, only excess fuel gets packaged and thr sinked
indigo totem
yo could someone show me how to get 100% efficiency
boreal cypress
do math
boreal cypress
if something needs 5 items/min and you have 4 machines, you need 20 items/min
thats all xD
indigo totem
ok
random island
what is the water coal gen ratio now a day ... skipped a few months. ..
ashen yarrow
could someone share their design for one coal ore
ornate zodiac
I'm trying to understand where 3:8 comes from, or rather, what people are optimising for
woeful skiff
It uses an even number of extractors and generators w/o having to underclock one or the other.
and miners
8:3 consumes up to 120 coal/min (theoretically at 100% consumption)
ornate zodiac
there's no point in underclocking coal, sure, but what's the big objection to extractors? the hardest thing to automate is rotors...
shy mason
and 120 is a good point regarding miners, as its a mk 1 pure node or mk 2 normal node amount.
and extractors can be limited based on the space available in your water source, and you can only have 2.5 extractor's worth of water per pipe, due to the pipe's 300m3/min throughput limit
ornate zodiac
most places I've built extractors I've had space for plenty, maybe that's why
usually I find my extractor ratio is more guided by my patience to build more extractors
if they were a little more compact, I'd happily do them 1:1 with my coal
right, so 3:8 is space optimised to minimise extractors without using shards/overclocking, gotcha
woeful skiff
It's the natural place I ended up, based on the way I approach setting up any factory really. I looked at how much coal I had available, figured out how many generators that would support, then figured out how many water extractors I needed to support that. It happened to be a nice round number for the 120 coal I was starting with, so I stopped thinking about that and started building. And it's very natural to add coal 120/min at a time. (I'm up to 24 generators)
ornate zodiac
1:2 (with the extractor UC to 75%) seems a lot more newbie friendly though, a lot of newbies seem to run into the pipe limit because of the complications of 3:8
woeful skiff
I haven't felt that the overhead of extractors is eating into my supply too much, even with pumps, so I haven't been compelled to add more and underclock. It's true I could squeeze more power out of it, but it's also easy to build more.
ornate zodiac
depends on your coal supply, really. 20MW per extractor ain't cheap though
woeful skiff
Hmm, I don't really struggle with the pipes though, once I figured out headlift (which is a different issue), but I can't deny other people seem to.
extractors are very fiddly to place
and if I have to get close enough to them to press E and underclock them, I'm likely to fall in the water because I'm clumsy
So I have my reasons 😄
ornate zodiac
yeah, they could use a pass to make them easier. snap to foundations or something
but if my mental math is correct I think you lose about 10% of your power to water pumping
(120 coal = 600MW/8 plants, 3 extractors = 60MW)
ornate zodiac
yeah, I never do long-distance fluids if I'm counting my MWs for that reason
woeful skiff
Assuming you merge the flows before pumping, that's 68 MW total overhead.
ornate zodiac
remember downhill is always free!
extractor gives you some free pressure too, I've never had to pump my water
woeful skiff
I guess I just accept an 11.3 % overhead and build more of them to meet my power needs.
ornate zodiac
the mandatory extra is from the miner, but that's... 5-12MW depending on whether you've got a mk1 pure or mk2 normal
woeful skiff
For a while I put my coal generators down on the water so I didn't need the pumps, but I decided to move them to a floor I built above the extractors just because I like it that way better 🤷 I want to build a nice looking bridge across the water there.
ornate zodiac
so if you build an extra extractor (2:1) you gain... 2% 😄
woeful skiff
I've technically unlocked fuel already so I don't know if I will ever get around to trying to squeeze more MW out of the coal plant or not.
I have not actually set up any fuel yet though.
ornate zodiac
well.... at some point it's worth your time enriching your coal maybe
woeful skiff
I'm still catching up on getting shit automated.
woeful skiff
I've unlocked tech way faster then I can build the factories to produce it, so I've got fuel, but I've only automated up to motors.
ornate zodiac
if you're only building 5-10 of them, you can get away with not automating
I think that actually allows players to avoid automation for far too long
woeful skiff
It's easy to think you only need 5-10 of them... but then you need 5-10 more for the next thing...
ornate zodiac
if your buildings needed maintenance and replacement parts occasionally, you'd have an incentive to maintain and automate perhaps
but that'd be a pain in the butt with a megafactory
probably need logistic bots, ala factorio
woeful skiff
If that was the case, that would be incentive to go 2:1 on the extractors. Assuming underclocking produced less wear and tear.
ornate zodiac
I'd been doing 5 extractors at 50% because it made a full pipe and saved a decent amount of power
but I might go to 2:1 now that I've done the math
it's quite easy to adapt too from a 3:8 setup, you just drop to 3:6
(no pipe overflow at that ratio either)
woeful skiff
because my generators are situated directly above the extractors, I have very few issues with the 300/min flow
inland sleet
is there any website to manually graph machine schematics?
satisfactory calculator does it all itself and stuff
serene tartan
Is there a guide or chart or graphics that show optimal numbers of things?
like smelters per miners etc
oh nm i just checked the pins, sorry
ornate zodiac
isn't always that simple either, not all ores are created/smelted equal
belts are also a constraining factor (so a lot of people will use 60 items/minute, e.g. a mk1 belt as a common point of reference)
fierce ruin
remember downhill is always free!
@ornate zodiac Not in my game, it counts negative head as positive head, needing a pump or water just trickles through the pipes.
Also doesn't calculate head right at angles. Pipes have to be completely vertical or they all just say they are over the head-lift, when they clearly are not. (Building them top to bottom works for only about seven pumps, then they all say "exceeds max head lift". Had me installing pumps every two wall heights, for no reason.)
Now one going down hill, for that last stretch, or all my oil refineries run dry.
glacial hemlock
glacial hemlock
just created a stub, need help to elaborate.
wind spade
xD
https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill may be a good resource to link for calculating fill speeds (though I don't really like to share my tools in this way, so it's up to others to decide if they want to link it or not)
dull bolt
The balancer page should say... use manifolds instead.
fierce ruin
well if people want to waste time and space then there's nothing stopping them
shrewd yacht
how much gain is there in converting fuel to turbofuel for power generation?
fierce ruin
quite a lot
shrewd yacht
even with the assembler and miners used to make compacted coal?
you also go from 22.5 to 18.75 fuel
wind spade
@glacial hemlock I guess you can use some of the parts of this article I wrote https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/btexf7/satisfactory_saturdays_2_balancers_vs_manifolds/
fierce ruin
i personally don't have much of a clue how different fuels can be more efficient but i'm like 90% sure turbofuel is better
shrewd yacht
I miss your tool @wind spade 🙂
wind spade
shrewd yacht
hope you're making progress on the next version? 😮
fierce ruin
i still don't understand how manifolds work with things like concrete
shrewd yacht
they have to be shorter with slower belts of course
shrewd yacht
ignore the difference or under-/overclock
fierce ruin
because mk3 belts are the only ones apart from mk5 that you can get a nice split
i thought there'd be a better solution
shrewd yacht
if we ever get priority splitters you could overflow the excess at the end and use it elsewhere
shrewd yacht
they don't
woeful skiff
smart splitters are just sorters though they don't do what would be needed here.
wind spade
manifolds don't care about ratios. They just take the amount they need from the belt 🙂
shrewd yacht
the "smart" splitters are kind of useless curently IMO
wind spade
well they are smarter than normal splitters 🤔
shrewd yacht
not very
wind spade
but they are
sand garnet
more options so by definition smarter
shrewd yacht
mixing items on belts is asking for a gridlock unless you have a higher or equal demand to supply of all items
sand garnet
that makes the player usingthem less smart
but the splitter itself is still smarter than the regular splitter
shrewd yacht
sigh
fierce ruin
wouldn't you still need to split them evenly for 100% efficiency though? say if you got a 120 belt and your machines are taking 30/min you wouldn't have 5 machines, or 3
shrewd yacht
underclock and you'll be at 100% 🙂
wind spade
@fierce ruin you calculate how many machines do you need, in your case 4. Then you build that many machines and connect them with a manifold
shrewd yacht
well overclock the miners of course, but the rest is best to underclock if you want to match input
fierce ruin
so say you've got a 120 belt and 45/min machines would you just build two machines and not care about the excess? or would it be worth it to build a third machine and underclock it
wind spade
3 machines, all underclocked to take 40/min
shrewd yacht
undeclocking is more energy efficient
the power to work ratio is not linear
the more you underclock the more you save, but the slower it will work so you need more machines
IIRC 50% undeclock will save about 33% on power demand with same amount made
shrewd yacht
as I refuse to do nuclear I might do 50% on all manufacturers and double them up
fierce ruin
so wait
shrewd yacht
but as long as I got enough oil and coal to spare I just dont care
fierce ruin
what is the rate at which the amount of energy needed changes
glacial hemlock
@wind spade great!
wind spade
@fierce ruin original power * ([oc % / 100] ^ 1.6)
shrewd yacht
woeful skiff
There's a formula on the wiki for it, and it's a polynomial with I think 1.6 as the exponent, but I just remember that it's about 33% power @50% and 400% power @200% and sort of interpolate in my head from there.
shrewd yacht
nice graph there in that picture
fierce ruin
i hate it when growth ain't linear
wind spade
it makes gameplay not interesting when it's not linear
fierce ruin
just makes everything slightly more annoying to calculate
wind spade
that's why you have tools to calculate for you 🙂
woeful skiff
if it was linear there'd be no difference between just building more or less and it would be a pointless mechanic, I think.
woeful skiff
Don't forget that the optimization we all like to do is in reality, largely unnecessary to be successful in the game
I cite lgio as evidence.
fierce ruin
trains are pretty cool right?
shrewd yacht
cool, sure
fierce ruin
but how much faster are they than say, a mk5 conveyor
shrewd yacht
but only for very long distances I think
shrewd yacht
and they probably save some performance
fierce ruin
oop more confusing words
shrewd yacht
lots of belts require a lot of calculation
fierce ruin
what's a throughput again?
wind spade
items/min
fierce ruin
ah
wind spade
if the train was super fast, but could only carry 1 item, it would be faster than the belt, but won't have bigger throughput
boreal cypress
a train cant deliver more than a belt but it can have the same throughput
fierce ruin
and i'm guessing throughput is more important?
glacial hemlock
the advantage of train line is it is cheap to setup and nothing else.
shrewd yacht
problem with trains is they take a long time to accelerate and stop
fierce ruin
but that comment made me think otherwise
wind spade
train can have bigger throughput than a belt
shrewd yacht
train track also act as a power line
wind spade
speed is really irrelevant, throughput is important
shrewd yacht
well it drops when train spend half its trip trying to slow down
fierce ruin
you said they can have a bigger throughput
wind spade
well yeah
fierce ruin
what changes the throughput of trains, the carts?
wind spade
number of carts
length of one lap
stack size of the item
glacial hemlock
and whether you have buffer built beside the freight platform or not.
boreal cypress
always have a buffer
fierce ruin
what do buffers change?
shrewd yacht
theoretically that doesn't matter 😛
what we actually get in game from a train is the important thing
wind spade
train stations block input when train is loading (roughly 20 seconds of animation). So if you have a belt going in ISC and then two belts from that to the train station, it allows you to use the full belt
@shrewd yacht not really. If you know the theoretical throughput of the line, you know how much can you put there and still get it on the other side
it's essentially a cap of how many items the train line can carry
shrewd yacht
so how much can you draw from a station per second before it empties to fast?
wind spade
it's the same as saying "mk5 belt has a theoretical throughput of 780 items per mintue"
shrewd yacht
each station platform has its own "buffer"
boreal cypress
train stations block input when train is loading (roughly 20 seconds of animation). So if you have a belt going in ISC and then two belts from that to the train station, it allows you to use the full belt
@wind spade and vice versa
wind spade
doesn't matter how fast you pull items. Only matters how fast you put items in (those numbers should be the same)
fierce ruin
how could they not be?
shrewd yacht
so if you got 2 MK5 belts from each platform it draws out 520 items in 20 seconds
so thats over 5 stacks of most items that max at 100
glacial hemlock
loading and unloading takes 25 seconds.
shrewd yacht
how many slots in the station?
glacial hemlock
48?
shrewd yacht
key is to now how often a full train has to unload to keep up
problem currently is trains have no conditions and go through eachother
shrewd yacht
so the buffer is empty at just over 2 minutes in my scenario?
boreal cypress
here you go (I'm sharing this for like 100th time 😄 )
@wind spade maybe a mod should pin this xD
wind spade
the numbers don't include the 25 seconds pause
shrewd yacht
what what? pause?
wind spade
well locked platform when train is loading/unloading
shrewd yacht
there is no output during the offload?
wind spade
so you can't load 2 full mk5 belts into one platform and get full throughput
boreal cypress
thats why you need the isc buffer with 1 belt into the isc and 2 into the station (and vice versa)
shrewd yacht
hmm
guess I'll stick to belts for now
will not be able to build large enough to make it worth it anyway
oh btw, this one is nice: https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/math/lcm.php
like when you make heavy encased frames at 2.8125/minute and use 3
seems you have to go up to 45 to make it match 😮
glacial hemlock
collect all alts before going big on any items. Especially like HMF.
gusty sigil
Hi all. i seem to be having an issue with max pipe flow. 3 refineries using 100 water/min each with full large storage (1200 water) or slightly less, before before starting... using 1 water pump at 250%= 300 /min.... i can watch the pipe for 10 min at a time and shows a constant 300m fluid flow and full pipes yet im running out of water with no slow downs? anyone else with this issue?
shrewd yacht
probably similar to the MK5 belt if computer can't keep up
I've seen gaps in the row of items there at times even though the belt should be full
boreal cypress
everytime the game stutter there will be a gap in the belts
shrewd yacht
probably going to be even worse if we get MK6 belt
my poor i5 3570K already struggle as expected
hopefully they can optimize more, but I have no big hopes as UE4 is not very forgiving
boreal cypress
did you played in U2 beginning?
boreal cypress
the fps were more more more bad than now
shrewd yacht
and at the start I was using a GTX 970 as well so the framerate was ever worse
the GTX 2060 helps... even if its only at like 40-50% load 🙂
my potential upgrade got 20-25% more expensive recently with the oil prices cause the NOK value to drop like a stone
boreal cypress
its more CPU than the GPU
shrewd yacht
I know...
boreal cypress
but even my CPU wont have 100% nor the GPU
shrewd yacht
but the 970 could not keep up and I had to pretty much drop shadows which makes the game look terrible
and the view distance
still bugs me that it messes with vehicles
boreal cypress
jeah the 970 with only 3,5GB isnt so good
autumn blade
If I have 488 units of Turbo Fluid per minute, how many generators can I run?
boreal cypress
488/4,5
wind spade
or 488/60*2000/150
[amount of fuel] * [fuel energy] / 60 / [generator power]
autumn blade
That's the break down, thanks guys
long hinge
Anyone have cool compact smelter builds for mk5 belts?
boreal cypress
build 26 smelter in a row with manifold, finished
long hinge
you missed compact
boreal cypress
than 2x13?
long hinge
😦
boreal cypress
you dont get it compacter with a primnumber
long hinge
yea i guess
clear citrus
If anything the most compact choose is a double sided manifold
shy mason
there's some setups where people put splitters and mergers under the smelters and use lifts to feed smelters above them, if you want a smaller foot print but taller ceiling.
wanton glen
Does it make more sense to use vehicle outposts or continue with very long conveyor belt delivery systems when you get LOG 3?
boreal cypress
Log 3?
wanton glen
Logistics 3 (Tier 3 belts)
wanton glen
I feel like upgrading long conveyor busses is less efficient than adding additional tractors onto a vehicle loop.
boreal cypress
use belts for short range, for long range trucks and later trains
wanton glen
So the next natural question is "What qualifies for short range?" 2 full belt segments?
shy mason
I would use trucks if one of the stops is by coal, and more than 400 meters, or 8 belt segments
wanton glen
What's the math behind that Nutty?
wanton glen
I was more interested in the rationale behind 400 meters.
shy mason
50 meters is a full belt segment, and often how many stacks of plates I have to carry out to build it
Vs stack of mod frames to build tractor and stations
So limited by back pack space to carry the 5 stacks of plates, and how many trips back I would make to restock vs just building a truck route and laying power poles
wanton glen
Awesome. Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it. On the same subject, why would you only use trucks for coal instead of aggregate minerals?
boreal cypress
coal is infinite
wanton glen
Anything that comes out of the ground is infinite.
boreal cypress
and what do you mean with aggregate minerals?
arctic silo
if you use a biomass burner to power the coal generator and water pump you can disregard the power form the biomass burner and strictly use the water and coal pumping through it
ancient marten
1+1 = 2
wind spade
Please come up with more original joke if you intend to spam the channel
shrewd yacht
can you add vehicles to a route that already exist?
wind spade
No
sterile agate
how do you calculate how many fuel gen per refinery making turbofuel
shy mason
[amount of fuel] * [fuel energy] / 60 / [generator power], with turbo fuel being 2000 watts per unit and fuel gens being 150 Watts.
glacial hemlock
Or online calculator. I uses the Daniel's
mystic orchid
guys quick question : i have 8 refineries making me 200 rubber per minute and 200 heavy oil residue. If the rubber consumption gets halted because there is no need anymore then the heavy oil residue will get stopped too... meaning the power will stop as i can't convert heavy oil residue in fuel anymore..
is there a way to fix this ?
winter ferry
Filter extra rubber into the sink?
mystic orchid
i'm using right now 100 rubber to make 100 reinforced steel plates
meaning my production of heavy oil residue is 100 right ?
meaning ... if i place a splitter in the rubber thingy i will make 2 lines of 100 rubber. 1 goes to the plates and get used up, the other to the sink. meaning production is ALWAYS up at 100%
correct ? but what about when i will be full of reinforced plates ? mm maybe i could just place another sink at the end of the contructors that is building the plates? so that if the construction stops then everything goes inside the sink ?
while instead if the contruction is going only half of the last splitter will go inside the sink
glacial hemlock
Search ytube for overflow splitting guide. You need 5 splitter and 5 merger
wind spade
or two train stations and one train
mystic orchid
wait what ? my actual setup is simply a line of constructors and let's say " each consumes 40 a minute " then with a 480 belt i can feed max 12. the primary belt of 480 get split into all the constructors. My idea was to have the final contructor where the least of the material is to be split again, one inside the last contructor and once inside the sink. Of course this means that with the example above i can't have 12 constructors, otherwise the last one will always operate at half volume. but if i have 1 less at the last splitter i will have something like 80 material, being split into 40 (contructor) and 40( sink ). If for some reason all of the constructors go in standby ( they get filled, no more stuff to produce) then all the surplus material carried by the 480 belt will go straight into the sink, since it can't enter the splittered belt, since they are full. Right ?
Question though. This means that all the "main belt "-> splitter-> constructor belt must be fo the same grade right ? meaning both mk4 or so right ? because i usually have the man belt being max grade ( mk4 for me right now ), and the from the splitter to the contructor being rank 1, since anyway the contructor process under 60 parts per minute. This way the resource reaches all of the system faster since it can't overflow directly in the first with half of 480. THAT SAID. If i place a sink at the end of the system then it will hog most of the resources since the sink to contructor belt is way slower. meaning i would have to make it all rank 4 right ?
opal yoke
@mystic orchid either use Adjustable Splitters mod or dont have a overflow output at the final splitter.
mystic orchid
no mods for now, what do you mean "don't have a overflow output at the final spliutter ?
opal yoke
Think i missunderstood the question to begin with, you can safely use 60 belts as no current recipe uses more than 60ppm.
mystic orchid
i have a question though. if i have a mk4 belt. and a splitter splits off into a mk1 belt. will the mk1 belt always try to get half of what is passing through the main belt ? Meaning: the first splitter will try to feed 240 to the first belt, which won't be able to accept it, as it's only mk1, so it will take 60. the second splitter will try to split the (480-60) 420 into 2 210 belts, but again, since one of the 2 belts is mk1 only 60 will go in there, leaving (420-60) 360 for the third splitter and so on. In a system where as i described above i have 12 constructors consuming 40 per minute, this will mean that the mk1 belts will ( once it's all full of course ) transport only 40 resource per minute. My question now is this: if i stick a sink at the end of the line, will everything work the same, but all the " remaining " resources, not picked up by the splitters and sent through the mk1 belt to the contructors will go to the sink, OR since the main belt is mk4 it will bypass the mk1 belts, having most of the resources sent directly to the sink ?
with this setup i mean: so TLDR: with that setup will the sink hog all resources since it's on the main belt that si fast or the splitters will give the same priority to both of the belts, both mk1 and mk4
woeful skiff
Here is my analysis. I'm not entirely confident my understanding is correct though: Once the system is primed, and assuming the constructors are fully producing (not blocked upstream somewhere), that last splitter will only be getting 40/min into it, the rest of it being consumed by the 11 previous constructors. The splitter will then evenly distribute 20/20 to the constructor and the sink.
mystic orchid
because the base idea would be to use this for rubber, i use the rubber in the constructors, leaving almost none for the sink ( since oit's at the end of the line ) but when the constructors stop ( because they are full or so ) all the rubber goes into the sink, allowing me to keep on producing heavy oil residue at the refineries
yes Byan, that is correct
woeful skiff
Yea that isn't really possible with our current technology. It is the most upvoted post on the qa site. Anyway, I don't think that the splitters will weigh their splitting based on the speed of the output belt, based on my observation it appears to evenly split things until the belt is backed up.
mystic orchid
ok so it means that my idea would work right ?
woeful skiff
You can chain splitters/mergers together such that the amount getting split off gets smaller and smaller to approximate that behavior -- so that when things are flowing a small percentage gets sunk, and when things back up all of it does. You can get that percentage as small as you like by adding more splits/merges. There's some guide on reddit, but honestly I've never really bothered setting it up.
It would work, but that last machine will be starved for resources, because half of what it needs will be getting sunk no matter what.
mystic orchid
isnt that what i have done there ? i mean, first splitter splits initially 240 and 240, if not for the fact that one side can only accept 60. so the second one has 480-60 and so on
ah sure bryan
i would remove that machine probably
or figure something out, i was just wonering if the idea was sound
woeful skiff
You can mitigate that by putting 1 extra splitter at the end, merging some of it back in and some of it to the sink. Then, only a quarter of that last machine's needs are being unfulfilled. (You can repeat to lower that percentage).
Removing the last constructor would have a similar effect.
mystic orchid
good idea
woeful skiff
well, the splitting and merging it backward into the production line is the crux of that
mystic orchid
well that is already in the design, this i showed is what splits out of the main bus, on the other side of the constructors of course it would merge back into the bus
woeful skiff
If you're feeding 480 into 12 constructors that require 40 each, there shouldn't be any overflow, unless the contructors start to get backed up.
mystic orchid
well precisely
that would be the idea, if for some reason they start to get backed up the excess goes into the sink, and my heavy fluid residue production continues
woeful skiff
But the problem is there's no way to really do that, you can only approximate it, because you will inevitably be sinking some stuff that should've gone into the machines unless / until they add something to the game.
mystic orchid
oh sure, yeah i know that
woeful skiff
ok yea, I'm probably over explaining something you already understand at this point 😄
mystic orchid
that's a price i'm willing to pay though to remove the issue of rubber stopping my heavy oil residue production XD
thank you for the help ^^
wind spade
@opal yoke even constructors. Biomass from leaves = 120/min input, biomass from mycelia = 150/min input. Not even talking about output
and that's just a few examples
opal yoke
well who in their right mind would setup a full line for biomass production
wind spade
why not, biofuel is nice to get some extra power (as well as for chainsaw)
also - alternate steel screw have output of 260/min
opal yoke
1800 biomass ppm sounds a bit much for chainsaw usage 😛
obviously when you get into alt / overclocking you have to change things up but at that point this is no longer a question.
wind spade
you should use alts anyway
and I'm just pointing out that given your statement "no constructor recipe uses/produces more than 60 ipm without overclocking" is wrong
glacial hemlock
Biofuel is renewable.
opal yoke
well i barely did any harddrive up to 200 /hr gameplay
wind spade
uhh, your base must be so inefficient 😄
opal yoke
argue for the sake of argue is a waste of time, its quite obviously that one can also think for one selves.
glacial hemlock
True, Hard drives is just an option, they are not compulsory.
wind spade
well, I'm trying to help, we're in #math-and-meta anyway, so 🤷♂️ sorry if I insulted you or something, I'm just providing my $0.02
wind spade
ThE gAmE sUcKs BeCaUsE iT hAs No PrIoRiTy SpLiTtEr
woeful skiff
You could report that, but they already know the game is dogshit, don't you watch the streams?
boreal cypress
No you
stark lichen
my iorn thing is such a mess
1 to make screws
1 to make plates
1 to make rods
all going into a storage thing
glacial hemlock
How is that possible?
dark wadi
??? 3 iron nodes, plus the alt screw recipe. The description also excluded the smelting of the iron ingot, so there could be many things in the process that were left out of the "iorn thing is such a mess" statement.
limpid scaffold
8k parts per/minute sorting facility, using adjustable splitters (placeholder belts atm)
stark lichen
god
spare pewter
Hello guys! Had few weeks brake from Satisactory. Are there any calculators updated for U3 or not yet? I know that greeny is still working on his project, I'm curious if there are any workarounds available.
sand garnet
deft lichen
only Anthor's map is up-to-date (what Tom just linked)
spare pewter
Thank you guys!
cobalt crescent
give me bluprint link browser ?
wind spade
there are no blueprints in the game
sand garnet
Dont really exist besides satisgraphtory.com
cobalt crescent
thanks bro
errant garden
@cobalt crescent you won't see anything like that, telling you the placement of stuff
The stuff that greeny has made, along with others, is that it'll tell you how much of each machine and where the outputs are going
fierce ruin
So is it me or the satisgraphtory gets really laggy after you add like over 6 nodes
I having a headache with splitting stuff to get perfect ration
ratio
wind spade
well, don't split in a perfect ratio then 🙂
wise obsidian
Anyone know the lift generated by a refinery/oil extractor? Is it 10m like Water extractors?
oblique hollow
yep
all buildings apply 10 m, except for the buffers (variable) and of course pipeline pumps (20 m)
wise obsidian
ok, thanks!
Should not have decided to put the belts below the row of pipes on the last run of refineries !
quaint ferry
any help with burning through excess fuel/oil? 😢
glacial hemlock
Build some tanks and flush often 😄
quaint ferry
I wanted to avoid manual flush'ing xd
wind spade
package and sink 😛
crisp dagger
do the nobelisk give awesome sink points?
wind spade
980
crisp dagger
thanks
haughty quail
@wind spade Hey I just wanted to thank you for your service to the community with your brainpower. Given that brainpower, do you think you could do a little update on your SSS #6 post by adding fluid train times? Not sure if the loading times vary because of the new capacities or not
wind spade
hmm, they changed the values recently, I'll have a look at it
haughty quail
I'm also still trying to wrap my brain around adding freight cars to expand throughput, and I wanna know the mechanics behind it
wind spade
simple, if you split one platform into two, you double the max time for the whole loop
haughty quail
I saw an old video Kibitz made a few months ago where he load balanced into more freight stations, but can't you achieve this with a manifold system?
wind spade
you can do a platform manifold easily
haughty quail
I imagine to get the best throughput you would rarely ever utilize 2 MK5 belt inputs, no?
wind spade
well you also can't utilize full 2 mk5 belts due to the 25ish seconds of locked input/output when loading/unloading
haughty quail
That's true. Essentially by splitting a belt into 2, based on your time table it should add double the time. I also read on the wiki that adding buffers on both sides can also increase throughput?
Though you'd think at some point the buffers would run out b/c the train can't keep up with it
wind spade
adding buffers theoretically increases throughput because of the locked input/output. Only sometimes tho
essentially if you have 1 full belt coming into a platform, you want to add ISC before the platform and connect both outputs from ISC to the inputs of the platform, so that the train can transport the full belt (same for output)
haughty quail
Ah I see. So the more reliable choice is adding more freight cars until you achieve the desired throughput
No ISCs needed in theory
wind spade
no isc needed if in the 25 seconds the items won't fill your belts up to the constructors and make them stall 🙂
haughty quail
If I do have ISCs on the input end, do I also need one on the output side by having 2 outbound belts going into the ISC, then one coming out?
wind spade
if you plan to use full throughput of that belt, yes
if you're only using part of the throughput, you're fine with the belts coming out of the platform
haughty quail
Sweet, thanks! I think you'll be satisfied with the new numbers and capacities they adjusted on fluid logistics
wind spade
I don't really mind, since I don't play the game 😉
glacial hemlock
Freight platform locks the flow of items for 25 seconds per load/unload.
dull bolt
Load balancer?
glacial hemlock
Hopefully this page will answer all the question regarding 1:5 splitter, and other ratio.
cedar mica
1:5, is just 1:6, with of the 6 being merged back to the one
sand garnet
lol
cedar mica
Only place I concider balancers, are power plants. Specially early game
woeful skiff
Just make that page a redirect to the factorio wiki 😆
glacial hemlock
Factorio balancers are hell more complex to build than in satisfactory.
woeful skiff
I'm just poking fun, thanks for your hard work for the community.
But seriously I don't think you don't need load balancers in this game.
glacial hemlock
If you ask me which team I am in, I will stick to the manifold.🙂
I create that page for the sake of answering questions.😂
sand garnet
team uninstall !
i dont think anyone searches for 'equal splitter' when they want to search for 'balancer'
wind spade
Factorio balancers are easier than SF balancers 🤔
cedar mica
2D is easier then 3D...
wind spade
well that's not the point. Factorio has priority and 2:2 balancer as one entity
also, balancers can be more than 1:X, wiki just lists those
glacial hemlock
yes. I noticed that. I have moved the page from 'balancer' to 'equal splitter' because balancer is another level of topic.
they can have more than 1 input.
cedar mica
The reason Factorio balancers are easier, is that you dont need to move the belts in the same way we do.
glacial hemlock
haha. reading it.
crisp dagger
I'm trying to set up efficient farms for the awesome sink. so far it seems like heat sinks are the best. Anyone else found an efficient item to use to farm coupons?
scarlet marsh
refine your heat sink into turbomotor
glacial hemlock
each end product worth more coupons then its ingredients combined.
spare pewter
Anyone remember which recipes for plastic/rubber/fuel were the most efficient in getting the most resources out of the 1 crude oil? And if there was a way of making rubber-plastic to reuse all the byproducts so chain overall have no byproduct?
trim geyser
I really miss the 2-2 balancer from factorio. That one would make things a lot easier on sf.
A combination of merge-split
spare pewter
A combination of merge-split
@trim geyser Customisable mergers/splitters would be cool, where you could set what's an imput and what's output.
cerulean raven
@spare pewter try HOR, diluted packaged fuel, recycled rubber, recycled plastic and there’s a residual rubber in there too. It’s a good system for plastic and rubber
trim geyser
Customisable mergers/splitters would be awesome
spare pewter
@spare pewter try HOR, diluted packaged fuel, recycled rubber, recycled plastic and there’s a residual rubber in there too. It’s a good system for plastic and rubber
@cerulean raven Thank you, will check it out.
limpid scaffold
@silk lintel take a look at Advanced Logistics mod, this does exactly that.
glacial hemlock
@spare pewter search HOR in the wiki, there is a diagram, perhaps that is useful to you
silk lintel
???????
summer field
Which Falk is right falk?
glacial hemlock
Lol
ancient marten
Not sure if this is math or not but I accepted a harddrive recipe of 5 iron ingots to 20 screws, normally 5 iron bars which is 5 iron ingots gives you 22 screws but this removes assembly is it worth it?
woeful skiff
How are you getting 22/min from 5 ingots?
Default recipes: ingot to rod is 1:1, rod to screw is 1:4
So 5 ingots would be 20 screws.
summer field
5:20? Seems a bit off.
woeful skiff
Casted Screws is 12.5 ingot/min to 50 screws/min.
5 ingots worth of that is 5/12.5 * 50 = 20
Is the wiki incorrect? (I'm not actually in the game right now)
fathom minnow
the benefit to going from ingots to screws is mostly a footprint benefit, when you need a lot of screws it sucks to have to run out a huge line of constructers for iron rods
woeful skiff
Well casted screws are definitely worth it. I was just questioning where the number 22 in the original question came from.
glacial hemlock
@woeful skiff it is correct, for the current version
ancient marten
Wait no @woeful skiff you are correct! So bassicaly its just the same output but easyer! well thats good
obtuse elm
sand garnet
guys, can you think along with my conceptual 600m3 water per min through a pipe for coal gens even though pipes have a max of 300?
coal gens require 45 water p/ min meaning we can run 6.67 coal gens on 1 pipe.
Lets round that down to 6
if I have 3 water extractors on 1 side of the pipe, that filles it up to 300 per min from the left side
if I do the same on the other side then the water in the pipe will collide with the water from the other side
glacial hemlock
correct.
sand garnet
or rather, if I am able to use the water before it hits the right side, then that section is empty
so I can also fill the pipe with 300 per min from the right side
for a total of 600 per min
glacial hemlock
So at the center, there is basically no flow. A pipe segment with zero flow can be safely removed from the setup.
sand garnet
sure, but its easy to set up
glacial hemlock
but it is not 600/min
sand garnet
yes and no, its 2x300 so not 600, but for all intents and purposes, it's a single pipe with 600m3 per min for structures connected to it to use
glacial hemlock
kinda.
sand garnet
I wonder how viable this is as a sort of expandable setup if we ever get mk2 pipes
glacial hemlock
yes, they equalize more easily, and they are non-directional until they are balanced by the supply and demand.
nova steppe
anyone got a good blueprint for a motor fac?
buoyant turtle
has anyone come up with a system for making uranium pellets were the sulfuric acid doesnt jam when it backs up?
dapper sonnet
Feed the pipe of acid coming out of the pellet refineries back into the acid in pipe and put a pump just before the junction .
buoyant turtle
But considering the fact that you won't be using 100% of the fuel rods, they will back up. So eventually, the acid will back up. When the system is completely full it won't be able to make more sulfuric acid because it's full, leaving you with no uranium. Your solution doesn't fix this
torpid robin
can you sink fuel rods?
split torrent
what are we talking about here?
buoyant turtle
can you sink fuel rods?
@torpid robin yes
torpid robin
so why dont you just sink excess rods. then you can feed the pipe back as corwinmda said
buoyant turtle
Pretty sure you can sink anything that's not nuclear waste, items that can't go on belts, and some special thing like Sam ore
Well in that case you don't even need the pump right?
Btw can you use an unpowered pump as a checkvalve without affecting anything else?
shy mason
you can package the sulfuric acid and awesome sink the packaged acid, though adding constant flow of plastic packaging is going to be a pain.
tired barn
so what clock speed would i have to set a refinery to to process exactly 3.75 oil residue into fule
slender quiver
Pretty sure you can sink anything that's not nuclear waste, items that can't go on belts, and some special thing like Sam ore
@buoyant turtle Can't sink alien parts
lyric pecan
since im working with nuclear power and have no real use for fuel anymore... whats the best way to process oil... do i make fuel and then use the polymer for plastic and rubber? (using excess rubber+fuel to make additional plastic if needed)
or should i just process all the oil in to plastic and rubber directly, and destroy the excess liquid in the sink?
glacial hemlock
liquid loopback can be easily dealt with dedicated refinery only accept input from the loopback.
uranium pallet recycles quarter of the fluid, so build refineries in 4, 3 accepts fresh acid, and 1 only accepts the loopback.
this way you won't need pumps.
dusky rock
Just been thinking about oil stuff since I'm about to unlock it all I'm assuming it's not worth overclocking a pure oil node since I'm only able to still get 300 oil per min from it no matter what?
spare pewter
@dusky rock Yup, you won't be able to push more than 300m3/min through a pipe.
peak estuary
You can double the pipes from it, cus it can still deliver 600, but only pass thru 300 in one pipe. Double the pipes. From one extractor.
spare pewter
@peak estuary It won't do anything. There will always be a small, single pipe before that junction, so he still won't be able to get 600m3.
peak estuary
@peak estuary It won't do anything. There will always be a small, single pipe before that junction, so he still won't be able to get 600m3.
@spare pewter fair enough.
dusky rock
Ah thats a shame then, would love to have a lot of oil lol
glacial hemlock
you can maximize the output product with that limited amount of oil
clear gulch
what do u think about nobelisk? in my opinion riffle is useless. because u can use nobelisk!
glacial hemlock
they have their own uses. If you can throw nobelisk accurately, they can be more deadlier than rifle.
cold island
i found hitting red/green spitters hard with nobelisk and it doesent kill them . But with rifle it is super useful to kill them
glacial hemlock
rifie is good against flying crabs and spitters
cold island
and you do not need to stay close, so it is easy to evade projectiles
super easy to kill*
glacial hemlock
I am thinking using equipment workshop as a cover for alpha spitters, but need to experiment it.
they have door, windows, roof, all come in 1 click.
spare pewter
C'mon, it's not that hard to kill those animals. No reason to overthink it.
fierce ruin
whats the meta for spider killing?
wind spade
bash/shoot them with a weapon of your choice until they don't move and then a few times more just to me sure
unborn ermine
glacial hemlock
For the small one, just bash it. They are meh. The large one: when they use melee attack, make sure to use blade runner, run to the sideways. But there is also a chance that you won't be able to dodge. Their jump attack and charge attack are easier to dodge
woeful skiff
Once you get nobelisk and a jetpack it's pretty easy to keep your distance and just bomb the crap out of them.
C'mon, it's not that hard to kill those animals. No reason to overthink it.
@spare pewter They are challenging, no reason to belittle people who aren't as good at twitchy video game combat as you are.
spare pewter
It just needs some practice, like everything.
glacial hemlock
And there are some players who don't like the combats at all until they want to ditch the game
woeful skiff
It's not nearly enough to make me want to ditch, I love the game. I'd just say they no more than a minor annoyance most of the time. I definitely want some challenge in the exploration and in particular I like how sections of the map are gated behind teching up to nobelisk to clear out the poison flowers. But I don't play fps shooter or any fast paced combat games like that and just don't enjoy that aspect.
glacial hemlock
But there are certain strategy that can be used to kill them very easily, all mentioned in wiki
lyric pecan
I think the calculator is broken, or my brain is broken. It's claiming i need 54 smelters to produce 640 caterium ingots.
smelters produce 15 caterium ingots per minute. So, 640, divided by 15 = 42.6
where did it get the extra 12 smelters from?
unborn ruin
when comes satisfactory
lyric pecan
unborn ruin
on steam
shrewd yacht
can one normal sulfur node supply 166.66 fuel generators via compacted coal?
OC to 250% on an MK3 miner that is
600/minute -> 40x15/minute=750 turbofuel @ 4.5/minute consumed
glacial hemlock
Which calculator you are using? U3 don't have oil pumps anymore
But the quantity of constructors is correct😄
Smelters produce 12 caterium ingots per min as of U3
@lyric pecan
lyric pecan
the smelter says they produce 15?
if they consume 45 caterium per minute, and only produced 12 ingots, that would be a consumption of 3.75 ore per ingot... which i dont think the game would support
so if they only produce 12 per minute, then they must likely consume 36 per minute?
@glacial hemlock
glacial hemlock
Ops my bad. I looked at it wrong
lyric pecan
so it is 15 per minute?
glacial hemlock
Ok, the calculator is outdated. You are correct
lyric pecan
ah right, good to know my brain can still do basic maths lol
i lie, my phones calculator actually did it
glacial hemlock
it is ok, the world doesn't care how you get the result, as long as you get it right.
shy mason
quickwire constructors took 12 cat ingots per minute, must be where you got that number from.
modest elk
shy mason
you're good if you round it up to closest whole number, so 2 and 3 in practical terms
tired barn
what clock sppeed should i set a fuel gen to so it consumes 12 fuel per minute?
spare pewter
It may not be possible to get exactly 12 fuel/minute.
torpid robin
Why do you want it only consuming. 12 a min ?
spare pewter
You would need 5s burn time to achieve this.
tired barn
cause i'm getting in 42 from my acess residue
and i like opperating things exactly
also damn
fierce ruin
lol
spare pewter
You will never make thing perfect with power generators.
Fuel consumption depends on load, so you this generator would have to be running on 100% load all the time.
If it's load is only 50%, then fuel burns twice as long
Do not spam here Levi
fierce ruin
@spare pewter what
tired barn
so i just pump the excess into one running at 100 and i should be fine?
spare pewter
One fuel generator running on 100% load uses the same amount of fuel as 4 generators on 25% load.
fierce ruin
uhh...... ok
spare pewter
Youwould have to connect it to something. Like bunch of hyperloop enterances to make it working on 100%.
Allthe time
fierce ruin
@fierce ruin yumm
spare pewter
<@&387163995947270144> @fierce ruin is spamming
fierce ruin
sorry
spare pewter
I asked you not to.
fierce ruin
ok
stone orbit
untold linden
is there a load balance calculator anywhere? i'm trying to balance a 780 line into 17 Constructors for concrete, they take 45 limestone a minute
spare pewter
@untold linden Why would you do that? There is no need to. If you want, yeah, sure, it might be possible, but it may end up very complicated.
untold linden
i'm just trying to get used to load balancing, i usually do the overflow method
would you suggest to do the overflow?
spare pewter
Well... You got yourself very complicated setup to try 😅 With odd number like that I'd go with overflow. I sometimes balance setups where you can divide amount of machines by 2 or 3. Those are the easiest ones and they are not too complicated to make.
With other numbers things start to get tricky.
jagged grail
Are trains viable for shipping water to reactors?
spare pewter
Are you playing EA or Experimental?
jagged grail
Experimental
spare pewter
So may be. They increased capacity. However, you will still have to use at lest few trains and propably few train stations (so trains won't collide and pass station when other is unloading). You would have to do the math how long will it take travel by train and how much would you need. Personally I'd just build power plant closer to the water source and just use extractors, even if it would require using a lot of pumps (trains and stations also use alot of power).
errant garden
@untold linden splitting a line evenly into 17 is not worth the effort in the slightest, as well as being pretty much impossible, due to 17 being a prime number
You might as well just do a manifold
Oh nvm
haughty quail
Is it just me or is my perfectionism inhibiting me from continuing on in the game? I wanna automate reinforced plates, but I wanna use the alt stitched iron plate, but in order for me to do that I have to access another copper node off in the distance. But for that to be viable I need a truck system and automated power that goes with it, yada yada yada. I either spend the time calculating the ratios for a reinforced iron plate stock factory, or run around trying to get a 2nd belt of copper in
My 1st copper node is currently used for copper sheets
toxic island
100% copper sheets and you've already overclocked it as far as you can?
haughty quail
I can still overclock to 120 since I haven't unlocked steel yet
toxic island
but yes, perfectionism can make this game a much bigger time sink than otherwise
haughty quail
I do have the alt iron wire recipe if that helps. The thing that sucks is that I don't know how I wanna allocate my resources, especially with there being so many alts out there
toxic island
Divert some off, shut down some of the sheets, or keep alt-recipe hunting for iron wire.
haughty quail
Ideally I wanna get to a point where I can have water in all my alts because it's so abundant
toxic island
yeah, iron wire works good for stitched sheets. Iron is a lot more abundant than copper
haughty quail
Plus I can make pure iron later on
toxic island
I think most of those are for end-game optimization of extracting as much as you can from each node. You can easily climb the tech tree without min-maxing to that degree.
haughty quail
That's true
glacial hemlock
Your drive hunting can be pushed back until you have unlocked jetback. Before that just spaghetti your starter factory, aim for advancement instead of efficiency
If you really want to max your RIP efficiency, you need pure iron ingots, iron wire and stitched plates
fierce ruin
You will rarely be producing "everything", 100% of the time. Simply setup overflow systems to lead to whatever needs it next and priority for everything at the bottom of the chain, obviously. (and/or priority for items you take, if you find yourself needing a lot of individual items "first". Otherwise, put your personal stock at the end of the chain.)
Unless you are constantly feeding excess into a ticket-machine... Expect chain-reaction energy spikes as hundreds of, previously stopped machines, suddenly fire-up to replace stocks.
I'm still waiting for smart-power poles that just won't turn on, unless there is enough power to run everything attached to it. That way, everything can just cycle through production, as needed, without tripping breakers.
Or more realistic power-levels and some kind of power-zone access panel.
toxic island
Definitely needs breakers at least
storm ingot
What noesis says is why I run independent powergrids for the production systems, that way stuff on and offlining run independent of eachother.
fierce ruin
My memory kills me when I try to do that, near my power-grid. I made a whole elaborate setup to kill zones, but forgot where each connection actually went. (No signs)
I got desperate once and just dropped items near the connections... Coal, Iron, Copper, etc... 🙂
What I wouldn't give for a simple system like minecraft "Picture frames" or "Signs", in this game.
Or something showing the total load of connections on a line.
Instead of the whole system load, which is always the exact same as the supply, and redundant to display.
wind spade
Color the stuff :)
frigid orchid
anyone know the ratio of how many coal gens, too one water extractor?
dull bolt
8:3 (2.666... coal gen/ water extractor) If I recall.
spare pewter
@frigid orchid Coal gen needs 45m3 of water, one water extractor pumps 120m3/min on 100%. It's not a perfect system, you would have to downclock extractors or make bigger setups to match it. Keep in mind, that single pipe have max. throughput of 300m3/min.
wind spade
I'm so triggered by the foundation clipping in the sand
glacial hemlock
lol
i actually built the foundation a bit too low, the water level is even higher than the foundations (like, 10 cm?)
wind spade
depends what are you aiming for
fierce ruin
aiming to beat the game
wind spade
if you're aiming for any bigger build, it doesn't really matter as you would have bases all around the map
if you're just aiming to play the game on a small scale, then I'd say northern forest or whatever the name of the location is
fierce ruin
yea, forest start has many pure nodes
but i was thinking that in grass lands you can collect hard drives easier early on
maybe that would make up for the impure/normal nodes?
wind spade
idk, there are a few drop pods pretty close to the forest start
fierce ruin
also easier slugs
wind spade
and you don't need that many slugs if you have pure nodes
fierce ruin
i was thinking of collecting more drops
and if you want to get like 20+ drops, the biomes near forest kinda suck
wind spade
you still need to get a lot of them if you are aiming for efficient factory, you still need to go through almost the whole map
@fierce ruin that doesn't belong here
<@&387163995947270144> it's in a lot of channels
lethal fable
ugh
fierce ruin
lethal fable
ty
glacial hemlock
it really doesn't matter where you start, it only takes 15~20mins to walk across the diagonal of the map.
spare steeple
I need to ask
What is the best setup to use to make 10 modular frames/min
as the maths for it gets really grusome
For reference, I can only use Mk1 miners and Mk2 belts
Wait hold on
Unless I wanted to use a lot of ore nodes, that isn't great.
Hm
glacial hemlock
You rarely need so much modular frame before tier 4, and once you get tier 4 you have better miners and belts
spare steeple
So how many modular frames/min should I be aiming for
glacial hemlock
5 at most. Or 4
Online calculators are your best friends when it comes to building ratio
spare steeple
Thing is online calculators end up producing a messy visual look on how it should be done
glacial hemlock
Then it depends on your instinct
warm elk
@spare steeple 3 constructors, 3 assemblers. required bolted plate, bolted frame, and steel screw alts. very compact. gets you 10/min
spare pewter
I prefer to build a bit overkill factory so later I won't have to expand/build another factory when I will start HMF production. I will be able to use what I produce already. In worst case, it won't be running 100% at the beggining, but if you upgrade miners and belts later you will bring it to maximum throughput. And use tractors to bring materials in from nodes that are far away.
warm elk
can post a screeny for u if u want
spare steeple
@warm elk Thanks my dude.
glossy isle
Does anyone knows how many coupons we need to unlock everything in the coupon shop?
I ask because I did some math here and created a function that shows how much each coupon will cost, wanted to see how much sink points we need to get everything
For 500 Coupons for example, the cost will be 13.779.000 points
sand garnet
maybe the wiki has a list of available shop items
glossy isle
1691 coupons if my math is right
upbeat tide
I think I am overdoing things a little 🙂
Building a crystal ocilator setup and I just finished setting up a pure iron ingot setup that will make 1430 iron ingots a min at max capacity... off one pure node
If I did my math right, just half that supply can support 20 crystal ocilator lines
glossy isle
so if you want the Golden Nut Statue:
1691 Coupons cost: 158.485.500
Without the Golden Nut Statue: (691 coupons only) the cost will be 26.451.000
And to unlock everything except the statues you will need 116 coupons, that will cost 723.000 points.
Or approximately:
7 Hazmat Suit
or 8 Supercomputer...
remote dragon
this is very usefull
ddo u know the time to make all this
a good way to do this is using the quick wire
no is fast
but if u dont want to expend super computers or your important ressources into this, its a good way to make your 116 coupons
so u need 12 hours of 60 quick wire per min into the machine
if u use 1 slug or find a pure node
can double it
so in 6 hours u can do it
that time its enough to upgrade you factory enough to speed up this with high tiers itens
lunar pivot
Is it possible to play with my kids on multi-player from one computer to another on the same account?
upbeat tide
Sadly no
One computer yes but would need VM’s
And multiple epic accounts with the game purchased
empty hemlock
actually don't, just need to install it with one account and then you can switch to another one
upbeat tide
Playing simultaniouslly though would require more than one account tho right?
empty hemlock
yes, you can't connect to yourself through the API
shadow mortar
Hey Ficsit Employees of the month, one short question. I build 1 Water Pump and 4 coal factories. The Pipes are allways full , even though it shouldn't be possible right? Or is my math wrong?
sand garnet
if it's working for you, that means your power is below the requirement of 4 generators running at 100%
1 water extractor can only supply 2.66 repeating generators at 100% production
shadow mortar
ah ok, thats why. Ty very much
high saddle
Hey, I haven't touched the game since the Alpha release. I'm aware a lot of changed. I'm curious if there are any commonly available diagrams of the basic layouts for maximum efficiency?
woeful skiff
--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | |
X X X X X X
you dont need more than that ^^^
woeful skiff
Except mergers on the other side. Those are implied.
lyric pecan
If i don't need fuel for power, then the most simple way to process oil, is directly in to plastic and rubber right?
i'm not missing anything am i?
fuel is pointless if not for power.... and the only other reason to process oil, is plastic and rubber?
woeful skiff
How do you jetpack without fuel, fishface?
lyric pecan
i've covered most of the challenging content without mods, so, now i just fly
upbeat tide
Fuel isnt pointless, your trucks guzzle it!
Also turbofuel is some of the best energy stuff in the game IMO
I have a setup that turns 450m3 fuel into enough turbo for 55 gens
As byproducts go, petroleum coke is very useful. It is required for alumenium (without the right alts), and can be used with certain alts like Coke Steel to make tons, and tons of steel
Petro resin isnt that useful IMO, I just dump it
lyric pecan
not relying on trucks, just trains and belts
petroleum coke also comes from plastic and rubber production, not fuel
upbeat tide
Yes
lyric pecan
without jetpacks or trucks/tractors, or fuel power stations... I dont need to process oil in to fuel?
upbeat tide
My oil refinement system is kinda nutty tho, think 100+ refineries
lyric pecan
I can keep my refineries much simpler, and just process plastic and rubber?
upbeat tide
No without those no
lyric pecan
then process the residue in to coke, and burn off the excess in to an awesome sink?
upbeat tide
Unless you want to use the coke yes you need to sink it
lyric pecan
cool, the way im planning this factory, there's no do-overs
So, if i process these 6 pipes in to plastic and rubber... i'm gonna be really annoyed if i find out i made a mistake
upbeat tide
I always plan on changes, for ecample I decided to increase my iron ingot supply from 910 to 1430 because I wasnt leveraging a mk3 pure fully
lyric pecan
right now, i've setup 1320 iron, 2160 steel, 3000 copper, 720 caterium and 720 concrete
upbeat tide
Majority of that is destined for crystal ocilators, but that capacity is dependent on how much crystals I can make
lyric pecan
i think the iron production is a little low, and that factory isn't using the full potential of the 2x 780 iron belts they're being fed
upbeat tide
I built semi-de centealized
lyric pecan
but it has a little wiggle room
upbeat tide
Techniclly have 4 main factory locations
First is home base, second does HMF, third is my first steel foundary, and fourth is my oil refinery. Which ironiclly is my largest instellation
And I am tapping 3 pure, 2 norm, and 1 impure oil nodes
2 pipes - rubber
2 pipes - plastic
1.5 pipes - fuel
Fuel to tirbo > 55 gens
Coke - make 1800 last I checked used for coke steel alt mostly, rest burned off
Resin burned off
And im building my crystal ocilator setup right next door
willow igloo
one day I'll have a permanent base... for now I'm continuing to expand my early to mid-game bus, which I acknowledge won't be a good long term factory
I call it my "factory factory"
it feeds enough to build factory lines, but eventually I want to have 3 main factories, 60/min of Heavy Modular Frames, 60/min Super Computers, and 60/min Turbo Motors, or maybe I'll make it all in one
upbeat tide
Good luck with that...especially turbo
pine wedge
Thats a lot of turbo motors
upbeat tide
Dunno if there even enough nodes for all that tbh
willow igloo
I've looked at the max possible resources on the map. You need to work with all the best alt recipes to make it work
working under the assumption that pure nodes can only output 780 since it is belt limited by mk 5 belts
it's tight, but the biggest bottleneck is actually in oil
if we ever get mk 6 belts that can handle at least 1,200/min, we can finally fully utilize pure nodes to their max
lunar pivot
Or those cursed 3 letters. M then O then D. Then you can have your mk6.
remote dragon
i feel my entire body having goosebumps
glacial hemlock
quite modest. What stage you are in now?
you are doing good, as nothing is underproduced.
fierce ruin
im at 6
i wanted to do a 100% optimized production line, meaning nothing stops and nothing over produces
machine produces something it is immediatly used by the next machine when it finishs its production etc
around 100 cons and 100 assemblers all working in sync
vernal iris
1 MK1 Miner on a normal node should supply 4 Coal Power Generators, right? It easily supports 5, maybe 6, am I reading the math wrong?
fierce ruin
no it's good for 4 coal power generators but i'm not sure that it can supply 5 or 6 generators
sand garnet
15 coal per generator
glacial hemlock
wind spade
@fierce ruin it can't supply more than 4 coal gens (if it's 60 coal/min)
fierce ruin
i said i'm not sure but thanks for the information
glacial hemlock
you will unlock better miners and belts later on, and there are many potentials to expand the coal power setup.
Overclocking, sulfur for Compacted Coal, etc.
sand garnet
oil extractor is a mighty acronym lol
glacial hemlock
Lol
wind spade
TM, MF, HSC, ACU, ECR
sand garnet
never heard the last 2
glacial hemlock
Ok, i will add hsc
orchid iris
Which one is better out of these three: Quickwire Stator, Electrode Circuit Board or Heavy Oil Residue?
woeful skiff
You are going to be shocked to hear this, but many of us have not memorized all 70 alternate recipes by name.
orchid iris
Im kinda new
woeful skiff
People post screenshots of their options sometimes and then people will usually chime in with opinions.
orchid iris
i'm kinda away from my base rn searching for hard drives but i quickly asked to find out which one is best pre oil
wind spade
or check the recipes somewhere, like https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/