#math-and-meta | Satisfactory | Page 428

spice holly Dec 18, 2019, 9:54 PM

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more loco = more acceleration is true

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I found out accidentally when I was going uphill on one of my track with 10 wagons and 1 loco, it loses speed and started going backward (cos of the gravity) halfway up the hill

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I only managed to keep the speed going with 3-4 loco

barren elm Dec 18, 2019, 10:23 PM

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I noticed no difference in acceleration

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But that incline issue is something I didn't test, seen that a few times

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However the track I built to test train speed/acceleration was up a hillside, and no amount of locos or cargo cars made a difference

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The idea of "I added more locos and now my train scaled this steep track" seems to be a common trend though, think I'll give that one a try next time I play

spice holly Dec 18, 2019, 10:50 PM

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To be fair, I didn't test it in level track, so maybe, just maybe, there's a cap in acceleration, just like how there's a cap in speed, and if so, it wouldn't matter how many locos you add for level tracks.

glossy ravine Dec 18, 2019, 11:01 PM

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on the wiki it says something like 1 lok for every 2 wagons, to get them uphill, otherwise u risk the train stalling

errant garden Dec 18, 2019, 11:16 PM

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But most people just make massive lines up in the sky

rough sun Dec 18, 2019, 11:23 PM

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thats a bad idea
dont make your lines in the sky
make them glitched under the ground

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that way you dont have to deal with incline
you can make it all straight
also it doesnt ruin the landscape

spice holly Dec 18, 2019, 11:25 PM

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that sounds like a good way of getting your factory ruined when they finally fix that and implement proper train collision

rough sun Dec 18, 2019, 11:32 PM

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that wont be happening for a while
but if it does
then it means theres a huge update
and Ill probably have to redo my factory anyway

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 12:06 AM

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what about making the train lines actually follow the terrain and feeling nautral?

rough sun Dec 19, 2019, 12:08 AM

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I want the terrain to feel natural, yes
not be crisscrossed by track

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 12:16 AM

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a copule of bridges here and there with some smooth curves would look super nice

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and not like you need 5000 tracks at one place anyway

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also, not criscrossed by track, but flying skyrail completely fine?

barren elm Dec 19, 2019, 12:19 AM

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I tried following terrain with trains once

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There's 2 major issues I noticed, firstly you can't drive over the tracks with an explorer, I have no idea why because they look scaleable, which is incredibly annoying

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Secondly, all the corners you're forced to use end up massively affecting the train's max speed

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 12:20 AM

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I meant not exactly following terrain, but having the track go in a more natural way

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so you can have bridges here and there

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and ofc trying to have as smooth curves as possible

barren elm Dec 19, 2019, 12:30 AM

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Yeah that'd be better, I think if I were to do it again I'd have the tracks built slightly above the terrain, as though it were a monorail

spice holly Dec 19, 2019, 1:10 AM

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explorer getting stuck in the train tracks is one of the most infuriating things indeed

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after a while, i just stopped using explorer and use a personal train instead

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 1:14 AM

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I just did math comparing power requirements of iron ingot w/o alt and with alt for no reason (or rather @spice holly asked in #old-questions-and-help ), so here it is for those interested 😄

📎 unknown.png

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interestingly enough, most worth it is when you have mk3s on impure nodes OCed, then it's almost the same power requirement

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I could try underclocking the foundries to the rate, that would save even more power

spice holly Dec 19, 2019, 1:18 AM

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I expected the power diff to be less as well with lower impurity

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since the power diff in foundry vs smelter is offset by the amount of miners you need

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 1:37 AM

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this is the difference in power increase with or without underclocking

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📎 unknown.png

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if you are interested in all the vaules, here's the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ChMpld-HMJ0-y6ITT_308tcoArAGZXQgsYeGVvrw97o/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs

Iron Ingot comparsion

List 1

Miner,Purity,Miner power,Miner production,Purity multiplier,Base production,OC,miner power,production,smelters,smelter power,foundries,Foundry power,Foundry power UC,total power w/o alt,total power with alt,power change,Power change %,Power change % UC
mk1,impure,4 M...

zenith solar Dec 19, 2019, 2:45 AM

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if you truly want to save power, just build 100x the buildings at 1% power... yeah, that's not happening 😄

rough sun Dec 19, 2019, 2:56 AM

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im pretty sure that takes more power

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 2:57 AM

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it takes way less power

rough sun Dec 19, 2019, 2:57 AM

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ok

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 3:01 AM

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just did the math, 100 machines at 1% underclock eat 6.3% of power compared to 1 machine at 100% OC

spice holly Dec 19, 2019, 3:23 AM

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It's good to know that the power difference isnt actually that big

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I might use it maybe

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 3:26 AM

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yeah people often look just at smelters vs foundries, but forget you also save 1/3 of power from miners

tawdry steppe Dec 19, 2019, 3:57 AM

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anyone have a accurate website for calculating everyting?

wind spade Dec 19, 2019, 3:57 AM

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check pins, I have one there for example 🙂

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https://satisfactory.greeny.dev

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

tawdry steppe Dec 19, 2019, 3:58 AM

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thanks 😄

errant garden Dec 19, 2019, 7:27 PM

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@rough sun did you hear about update 0.3?

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i have no idea what will be on it

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but i have a feeling that trains may be patched

rough sun Dec 19, 2019, 8:13 PM

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I hope they don't try to patch trains, it'll probably be really glitchy

sand garnet Dec 19, 2019, 8:14 PM

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but trains need improvement

spice holly Dec 19, 2019, 8:44 PM

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trains and roundabouts are glitchy already lol

barren elm Dec 19, 2019, 8:57 PM

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Trains driving through trains is pretty unacceptable, so...

strong hare Dec 19, 2019, 9:00 PM

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If they add collision I hope they add in some kind of AI / switching system (like Factorio) otherwise they are going to jam up like crazy

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To add.. I do hope they add collision, because it is pretty silly right now

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but baby steps 🙂

glossy ravine Dec 20, 2019, 7:02 PM

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I'm fine with collision if they also add signals, otherwise its going to be chaos.

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 7:04 PM

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Or the simple solution, keep the trains on different tracks

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 7:13 PM

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oh, let's use 1 separate track for each train. what a great solution, why didn't I think of that before?

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 7:15 PM

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Signals are another source that will slow trains down, so seperate tracks is faster

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 7:15 PM

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but we shouldnt be forced to play that way

sharp creek Dec 20, 2019, 7:15 PM

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In that case, they should make stackable holders for the tracks, like with the belts

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 7:15 PM

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we should just get a functional train setup to work with

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and make our own decision based on what we prefer then

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 7:16 PM

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First we need to figure out what happens when trains hit each other

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Then how efficent the signal is, in terms of stopping the trains in the correct spot and such

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 7:17 PM

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It really depends on how the devs are going to implement train collision and its pathing system obv.

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Currently signals are placed automatically in junctions

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Signals in factorio is placed manually so it might be different just from that

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 7:18 PM

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I think of trains sharing tracks, like mixing belts. You can, but you must do it correctly

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At least with current system

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 7:18 PM

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No it's not

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Having 1 separate track for each train is just stupid

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 7:19 PM

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Trains fight over switches and stations, so it need to be setup correct

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 7:19 PM

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Your analogy isnt even remotely close

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Mixing belts would be mixing items in 1 cargo

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 7:20 PM

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Mixing belts works, only as long as there is no jam with the smart splitter. Same with trains sharing the same track. It works till 2 trains want to control the same switch

fierce ruin Dec 20, 2019, 7:47 PM

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So if collisions get added then does that mean they’ll eventually catch on fire and blow up???

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 7:48 PM

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unlikely

fierce ruin Dec 20, 2019, 7:48 PM

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They just stop

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 7:48 PM

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no other part of this game is like that

fierce ruin Dec 20, 2019, 7:48 PM

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Becouse there’s no collision

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 7:49 PM

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they'll probably just stop yeah, or maybe the locomotive has a damage model like other vehicles which may need replacing if you smash it into too many things

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but I dont think they'll actually explode etc

fierce ruin Dec 20, 2019, 7:50 PM

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They should give them realist damage physics

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Realistic*

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:33 PM

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@spice holly having 1 train per track isn't really stupid, why would you say so?

barren elm Dec 20, 2019, 8:34 PM

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Do other vehicles even have a damage model

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 8:34 PM

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they take damage yes

barren elm Dec 20, 2019, 8:34 PM

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I've never managed to damage a vehicle and critters don't damage vehicles

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 8:34 PM

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spiders attack your vehicles

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:35 PM

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@wind spade you would ran out of spaces

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what makes you think it isnt stupid

barren elm Dec 20, 2019, 8:36 PM

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Because trains in satisfactory move insane volumes of items

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:36 PM

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@spice holly what do you mean by that?

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How do you run out of space

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:37 PM

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1 track per train also means you need 1 train station per train

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since you can't share stations, if you're on different tracks

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:37 PM

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Yeah, and?

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Just have one station at each end

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How is that different than setup with multiple trains on same track?

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:38 PM

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obviously it's very different

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i can have >1 trains bringing iron plates into 1 station

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now i cant, i need 1 for each train

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:39 PM

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No, you just build bigger train

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:39 PM

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and if you have 10 trains, that means you have 10 train tracks wide in your base

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:40 PM

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One track with larger train *

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:40 PM

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then you need to centralised your 1 item production in an area in a way

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:40 PM

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Transfer stations

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:41 PM

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cos if lets say you have iron plates factory all the way on the west of your base and east of your base, it wouldnt be efficient

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lmao sure trf stations with each train having 1 track

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:41 PM

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Yeah, it's legit

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I've been recommending it a lot. No traffic jams, reliable train schedule, reliable throughput

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:43 PM

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that's pretty dumb

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you're saying it's legit on the basis of you, making decentralized factories

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:43 PM

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From efficiency and reliability point of view, it makes perfect sense

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:43 PM

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what about people with centralized factories

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:43 PM

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That works as well

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 8:44 PM

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it will, maybe, if you have build your bases flying in the sky

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 8:48 PM

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nope

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what is the reason it wouldn't work if you have base on the ground lol?

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you literally take the same setup as you currently have but instead of a junction, you build transfer station

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 8:49 PM

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Train 1 goes through the red forrest, collecting bauxite. Then take it to a transfer station above a cliff. Train that collects quartz, next to red forrest, collects the stuff from transfer station on the way back... Or something like that

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Also, trains cant share stations, so if 1 train is offloading, the next train will just pass through...

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 9:03 PM

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Also, trains cant share stations, so if 1 train is offloading, the next train will just pass through...
they can actually, they will wait for the previous train to finish. Unless there's nothing to load/drop then they will go right after the previous train finish

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 9:05 PM

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still, it's perfectly legit alternative to multiple trains per track, yes it's a bit different approach

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but you shouldn't call it dumb or stupid

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 9:08 PM

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yeah single train tracks are just as valid as steel screws.

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 9:08 PM

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how dare you compare single train track to those horrific screws

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 9:09 PM

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I saw an opportunity so I took it lol

spice holly Dec 20, 2019, 9:12 PM

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okay, fair point, I was perhaps too harsh on calling it stupid

cedar mica Dec 20, 2019, 9:26 PM

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When did they make that patch? Only 1 train can use a station at the time, last I checked

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The incoming train didnt wait, it just went to next stop

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 10:17 PM

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@sand garnet i curse you to never be able to use elevators or trains again'

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 10:17 PM

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I'll stick to jetpacks

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:44 PM

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honestly steel screws are good

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in the moar mod

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:44 PM

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honestly screws are bad

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:44 PM

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best screw alt is iron screw

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:44 PM

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nope

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no screw alt is best screw alt

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just don't use screws at all

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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but steel is the worst

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computers

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modular frames

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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??

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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modular frames use reincofed

sand garnet Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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using alt recipes fixes all that

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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and reinforced

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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use stitched iron plates instead

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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true

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:45 PM

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they are way better

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as well as not require screws

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:46 PM

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im well aware

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in fact, screws and steel beams are completely phased out

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and the steel screw comgines them both

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making it enitrely 100% usless

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hey greeny whats your favorite alt?

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:48 PM

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iron wire

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:48 PM

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then you can use copper for aluminum and iron alloy?

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:48 PM

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and quickwire, yeah

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:48 PM

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right i forgot about that

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:49 PM

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it just combines all the parameters of a good alternate recipe

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:50 PM

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once update .3 comes out, imma probably do a world eater factory

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that way i can work with the new mechanics

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hm. i wonder if sam ore will finally get a use

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:50 PM

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uses less materials
uses more common materials
produces more than normal recipe
doesn't increase production line complexity
product is used in a lot of places (so savings stack)
is available from T1 😄

errant garden Dec 20, 2019, 11:51 PM

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how about crystal computers

wind spade Dec 20, 2019, 11:55 PM

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also decent

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but useful only from midgame and only for limited amounts of items

cedar mica Dec 21, 2019, 12:40 AM

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I tend to not use iron wire, before I start doing quickwire alt

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Its a shame to have all that copper, just sitting there

barren elm Dec 21, 2019, 3:12 AM

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There is a colossal overabundance of iron and copper though

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I'm pretty sure your PC will melt before you manage to utilize all the iron on the map, so it's not really that terrible to just forget copper exists

cedar mica Dec 21, 2019, 2:06 PM

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Early game you have 1 or more copper right next to you. Why expand to grab more iron, when using the copper will free up what you use for iron wire.

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At least till you start messing with quickwire

wind spade Dec 21, 2019, 2:19 PM

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I use the copper for iron ingots

cedar mica Dec 21, 2019, 2:36 PM

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Yeah, from when you have foundrys. Right around the time you can do quickwire...

zenith solar Dec 21, 2019, 3:03 PM

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imo, copper should be prioritized as follows: 1) Alclad Aluminum Sheets, 2) Alt Quickwire, 3) Alt Iron Ingot. No copper should be used to make wire directly, if you want to maximize resources.

sand garnet Dec 21, 2019, 3:16 PM

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early game you have no choice though

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what are you going to do before you get the foundry?

wind spade Dec 21, 2019, 3:19 PM

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make iron wire from iron ingots normally, just not make iron ingots from copper 🤔

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@zenith solar if you use maximal possible amount of copper for alclad sheets and quickwire, you are still left with over 50% of available copper for iron ingots, so it's not an issue

smoky bison Dec 21, 2019, 3:31 PM

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How much fuel does a fuel generator consume a minute?

sand garnet Dec 21, 2019, 3:32 PM

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@wind spade but you dont need the copper for anything else early game so why not just use the node while you have it and dont need it for anything else

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you can switch to alt iron ingots when you unlock the foundry, but ignoring copper before that sounds silly

wind spade Dec 21, 2019, 3:33 PM

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well if I don't need all iron available nearby, it's better to make wire from iron because you make more from less (and faster)

smoky bison Dec 21, 2019, 3:41 PM

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Anyone?

wind spade Dec 21, 2019, 3:42 PM

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@smoky bison anyone what?

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oh, sorry, missed the message

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I've got a tool for calculating that

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https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/power

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

smoky bison Dec 21, 2019, 3:49 PM

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thank you

patent bough Dec 22, 2019, 2:32 PM

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The game tells you in a roundabout way how much fuel per minute a generator uses (it tells you how many seconds it takes to consume 1 fuel)

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But you have to divide 60 by that to get the per minute rate. Easier to look it up on the tool.

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Especially since the consumption rate is some arbitrary fraction that isn't easy to remember

wind spade Dec 22, 2019, 2:37 PM

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also, that's max consumption/production rate, it gets scaled if you don't use all the available power

patent bough Dec 24, 2019, 2:25 PM

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hm, that makes me think of a challenge: at any scale, consume exactly 100% of all power being produced. (i suppose it's much easier on smaller scales)

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the consumption rates generally don't add up neatly though.

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and underclocking has limited precision

barren elm Dec 24, 2019, 2:27 PM

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Would be pretty easy because you only "produce" exactly enough power as required by your active machines

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The only exception being geothermal, that are always on

patent bough Dec 24, 2019, 2:27 PM

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you are technically correct ~~which is the most annoying form of correct~~

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what i meant was 100% of all power capacity

dark wadi Dec 24, 2019, 3:27 PM

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it would be trivial at the lower end. Biomass produced 20Mw = build 4 Miner Mk1s and you've done it.

shy mason Dec 24, 2019, 3:55 PM

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Could make smaller sub grids and keep things running while you work out your latest generator's load, would need a lot of coal/ fuel shuffling though

ionic dirge Dec 26, 2019, 12:04 AM

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hello guys, I'm working on a new setup for my stitched iron plate factory, but I'm not sure what's the best solution. I have conveyor Mk3, and I'm trying to produce 135 stitched iron plates/min, so 18 assembler, taking in 270 iron plate/min (which is fine) and 1350 wire/min (it's here I struggle). So I need 5 full capacity MK3 conveyor of wire (5*270 = 1350)

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I first tried to put 1 conveyor into 3 assembler (3*75 = 225), but then what should I do with the extra 45 ?

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I can't merge them into another MK3 conveyor, cause it would be over the 270 capacity

idle iron Dec 26, 2019, 12:09 AM

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is using mk4 belts out of the question if capacity is the problem?

ionic dirge Dec 26, 2019, 12:10 AM

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I don't have MK4 belts yet

idle iron Dec 26, 2019, 12:11 AM

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personally I would say progress before trying to go semi overkill, but to each their own I guess

ionic dirge Dec 26, 2019, 12:14 AM

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but that would not solve the problem, right ? because mk4 belt capacity is 480, which could provide wires to 6,4 assemblers

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ok got it, nevermind 🙂

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because then I would need 32 assemblers => 1 mk4 of iron plate, and 5 mk4 of wires

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thank you for the help!

idle iron Dec 26, 2019, 12:16 AM

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im sorry I couldnt be more helpful in your actual situation 😅

ionic dirge Dec 26, 2019, 12:17 AM

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oh wait no, I'm stupid

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that was not my actual problem

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the issue I'm facing is how to split/merge the belts

cedar mica Dec 26, 2019, 12:22 AM

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270/3 is 90. So 3 of those is 15 left overs x3, then add 2 more from a 2nd row, to get 75. Then keep doing that till you have filled all machines

dapper sonnet Dec 26, 2019, 12:28 AM

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Just split your wire on 6 belts, Caarrl - 225 each which perfectly feeds 3 assemblers.

cedar mica Dec 26, 2019, 12:28 AM

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Personally I would use the manafold system, where you have one long belt of splitters. Then inject/merge in extra belts as needed

idle iron Dec 26, 2019, 12:28 AM

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I usually dont even do the math most of the time and just split things into each other until it works out

cedar mica Dec 26, 2019, 12:28 AM

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45x5 = 225, so perfect with the default wire recipe

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With iron wire, you might as well just overclock to 75 wire a machine

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You can also underclock the assemblers, to match the iron wire 67.5 a minute, then just add a few more assemblers

tawdry pebble Dec 26, 2019, 3:11 AM

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I am late to the party but there is an easy way to do it for the wire and ony need 2 mrk 5 belts, sure they are a ways away but just upgrade belts as you can mk3-> mk4-> mk5 cap is 780/min

Have 2 sets of 10 constructors making 675 wire each (67.5*10 ) at 100% then feed that line into 2 sets of 9 assemblers manifold style.

This also depends on your floor plan for equipment.

wind spade Dec 26, 2019, 8:26 AM

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@ionic dirge make wire 1:1 and underclock accordingly

ionic dirge Dec 26, 2019, 10:26 AM

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Thanks everyone, I think I'll go for the underclocking for now, as it seems much easier that splitting and getting the extra back in the line. When I'll unlock the mk 5 belts, I'll probably do what herorein said 🙂

wind spade Dec 26, 2019, 11:07 AM

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Even with mk5 it's still easier to make wire 1:1

spice holly Dec 26, 2019, 8:20 PM

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the hardest part is trying to underclock it 1 by 1. If only we have some kind of way to underclock multiple machines at the same time.

wind spade Dec 26, 2019, 8:21 PM

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if you are at nuclear, you can pretty much not underclock them at all and still be fine 😄

spice holly Dec 26, 2019, 8:22 PM

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not underclocking kinda bugs me when im trying to calculate my input/output using the calculator website

wind spade Dec 26, 2019, 8:23 PM

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well you can underclock them in calculator but not ingame

spice holly Dec 26, 2019, 8:23 PM

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true though, you don't rly have to, if you don't care about power, since it's gonna get bottlenecked with the next machine anyway

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no, i mean, i usually load my save in the interactive map thingy, and check in the production tab for my overall input/output

wind spade Dec 26, 2019, 8:24 PM

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I see

spice holly Dec 26, 2019, 8:24 PM

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that's actually also one of my wish for the power status in-game

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I wish they would tell me what my factory's peak power at, instead of just the current consumption

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since you don't really design your power grid based on average consumption

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 1:51 PM

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I just build by surplus model since it only draws when using. Though the power savings can be nice. Power I do a system of independent power plants per manufacturing location which makes it much easier to regulate. Multiple smaller grids vs one big one.

sand garnet Dec 27, 2019, 2:00 PM

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Thats a terrible idea

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If something shuts down you have no clue which location it is

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:35 PM

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@storm ingot I think it's exactly the opposite. One big network is way easier to manage than a lot of small ones

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:36 PM

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Never had anything shut down.... also not bad cause can see the lights. Plus the plant has the output figured becore hand for a 100% operation

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expansion and interruption is why I do it that way is all. Plus it looks neat!

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:38 PM

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And then you upgrade your production in the subfactory and you need to upgrade power grid accordingly

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And you can't use surplus from other grids

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:38 PM

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Oh, I dont subfactory, that is partly why...

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Ie, I have a factory making concrete or frames, that is not tied into a factory that uses them. Example is say reinforced plants of mine only take in the raw resources.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:40 PM

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Well I'm talking about power, not items

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:41 PM

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Yes, but what that means is the power doesnt change once started up.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:41 PM

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Unless you upgrade the factory

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:41 PM

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That is what I was saying... I dont :x

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:41 PM

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Or overclock stuff

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:42 PM

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gasp? Overclocking? you monster

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:42 PM

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So you build factories for 780/min from start?

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:42 PM

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Nope, why would I need to?

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See what I am saying is all sub componentry in my factories are processed internal.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:43 PM

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Because then I don't know how you handle upgrades between belt/miner tiers and miner overclocking

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:43 PM

#

So a computer plant only takes in raw resources, with sub componentry made in that line.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:44 PM

#

I get that, but what if you need more computers

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:44 PM

#

If something use computers, that plant has its own computers made in house.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:44 PM

#

You need to upgrade the computer factory and the power as well

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:45 PM

#

That is what I am saying, I dont. I do not have screenshots handy at moment to show though.

#

Part of it though is I build the buildings for the next tier while the factory is outputting for current tier.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:46 PM

#

So you are stuck still with the factory you built at the start for e.g. reinforced plates, because you don't upgrade?

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:46 PM

#

Dont need to. The intial reinforced plates goes to storage. I use that supply when I need plates to build stuff.

#

If something needs reinforced plates, I build them within the line for what uses them

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:47 PM

#

But what if you need more reinforced plates?

#

For storage

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

Havent had to. Never had consumption during contruction exceed what builds on the line

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

Still it's weird. There are so many factprs that eat your power

#

Like trains,jump pads, etc

#

By splitting your network, you need to work much harder tto power your stuff

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:50 PM

#

yeah, but cause each one in an independent system, I can determine peak draw and proactively have the plants in place. Not that much harder, since less running around to upgrade or fit in/space constraints etc.

#

Now infrastructure, that is its own grid too. So trains for example.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

Much harder because you build your power production multiple times

#

Instead of just one big setup for everything

regal trail Dec 27, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

Not sure if my question belongs here, because it handles some meta stuff , eg max effiency, or do I just post it in the 'questions' topic, well, anyways the questions is:
I want to add overflow protection on all my subfactories. So as an example I'll take the production of modularframes.
I am inputting 60 plates / min and taking out 60 plates / minute to craft the frames. So no problem there. But I gave myself the challenge to make sure the factory never stops, so IF the modular frames ever overproduce and come to a standstill , the plates would come to a hold , how can I catch these plates and send them to the 'main bus' ?

In short, I want the line to use everything it needs and add an 'overflow' protection. Which doesn't work with splitters cause they take out either 33% or 50% , so then my 60 / 60 ratio is wrong.

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

Well, it has to be built anyways, this way less conveyors running around.

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

Can't imagine building tons of waste storage facilities bcs every part runs from it's own nuclear plant

#

As well as fuel rods production for each part

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

SWA, what you can also do is underclock if it seems that way. I have used storage as an intermediatary within a production line to buffer as well

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

@regal trail since there's no infinite storage, your factory will eventually stop, so your challenge is impossible

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:55 PM

#

Well, nuke plants can build them in same location, just power lines running separate. Or will just power a few buildings vs whole grid. I keep old coal and oil in place in the old town

barren elm Dec 27, 2019, 2:55 PM

#

If you want a factory that never stops, then you want to underproduce everything so nothing jams, and aim for something high tier like HMFs or supercomputers, because as pointed out above you'll have to delete your storages manually to keep them from filling

#

Or just download the 2billion storage container mod

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

Also you can do what we were debating with subdivided production method I use. Only shuts down the one building. Something leaves, it all starts up. I do love watching screws zoom about

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

Uhhh, screws 🤢

regal trail Dec 27, 2019, 2:59 PM

#

I'm well under way to produce 10 heavy modulars / min

#

not sure if that's anything big, but feels like an achievement already :p

#

only 60ish hours into the game tho, had to learn everything at first and pretty much demolished my entire factory twice already

barren elm Dec 27, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

Shouldn't do that imo, if this is your first run then just leave your old factories there as a memorial because you might want to see the absolute mess you created someday

regal trail Dec 27, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

Had to fetch over 750 limestone for it cause I found this alternate recipe

#

Still on mk2 miners btw :p

storm ingot Dec 27, 2019, 3:48 PM

#

Anything is big if it is a new achievement for you!

#

As for screws, I just like watching them move about...

zenith solar Dec 27, 2019, 9:51 PM

#

At this point I just make screws for the sake of making screws, sort of how steel beams were useless until trains were introduced. 😄

idle iron Dec 27, 2019, 9:51 PM

#

I have a constructor making screws to just have a random storage container of them, lost somewhere in a dark corner collecting dust

sand garnet Dec 27, 2019, 9:52 PM

#

I can hear greeny's eye twitching a few countries away from here

cedar mica Dec 27, 2019, 10:22 PM

#

You need a few stacks of screws, that you pickup from crash sites, to make equipment

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 10:25 PM

#

technically you can play the whole game without crafting any screw (both manually and in machines)

cedar mica Dec 27, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

Yep, just need to explore a few crash sites, so you can get screws for the gun and a few other equipments

#

Then again, rotors before space elevator is sent, need screws

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 10:28 PM

#

well I beleive you can get enough rotors/screws for rotors from crash sites

cedar mica Dec 27, 2019, 10:29 PM

#

There is no rotors in crash sites, me and my friends have been running all over the last few months, with no hand craft challenge.

#

Then again, 1100 screws for the 50 rotors, is not that hard to track down

wind spade Dec 27, 2019, 10:29 PM

#

hmmm, really? I beleive I've found some in forest start

#

but then again, I haven't played for months, so I may be wrong

cedar mica Dec 27, 2019, 10:30 PM

#

We also thought that rotors was to be found, but none spotted yet

hexed oak Dec 28, 2019, 3:49 AM

#

anyone know the exact ratio for biomass compared to biofuel?

snow maple Dec 28, 2019, 5:34 AM

#

@hexed oak in terms of what? crafting or fuel efficiency?

#

4 biomass -> 2 biofuel

hexed oak Dec 28, 2019, 5:35 AM

#

it's all good now, i forgot to delete my message. thank you tho @snow maple

snow maple Dec 28, 2019, 5:36 AM

#

sure

storm ingot Dec 28, 2019, 6:15 PM

#

Well, true you can never need screws, but that requires heavy metagame hunting for wrecks to get alternate recipes.

In honesty, the alt recipes is one aspect I dont like so much because depending on how you build, might not be any reasonable way to integrate

barren elm Dec 28, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

It requires like 3 hard drives

#

It's not like this is some meta min-maxing secret, the recipes without screws are like 50% more efficient than the ones that require them

sand garnet Dec 28, 2019, 6:20 PM

#

it's just a nice reward for exploring

#

I dont see how that's a bad thing

#

if you dont want it, you can still build a viable factory with screws etc

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 12:07 AM

#

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/32845/109693-conclusive-belt-speed-results-inside-serious-issue leaving this here because this issue seems to affect the #math-and-meta community a lot

[EX 109693] Conclusive belt-speed bug test results inside, serious...

Alright there's quite a massive problem with how splitters affect belt speeds in the current EX build. ... normal IPM This really needs to be fixed.

spice holly Dec 29, 2019, 1:03 AM

#

this is only on ex, though, right?

#

@sand garnet did you test if it also have the same effect on lower speed belts? like say, a mk1 belt

cedar mica Dec 29, 2019, 2:19 AM

#

So I'm doing a playthrough where I put only assemblers and manufactures, in a central location. But I'm wondering if I should make an exception for wire, as calcuation shows I need around 46x 780 belts of wire.

#

Then again, adding 550 or so constructors to the central area, is also not a small task

shy mason Dec 29, 2019, 4:51 AM

#

yeah would shuttle in parts that are made from wire into your central hub, I'm assuming circuit boards, cables, and rotors / stators; unless you make a separate floor for wires constructors alone.

cedar mica Dec 29, 2019, 7:03 AM

#

I cant shuttle in parts, if they need assembler or manufacture, as that is part of the design/challenge.

#

I'm already making Quickwire in central area, as the alt needs assembler. Which currently is the single largest number of machines for 1 thing, at 280 or so assemblers, at central location

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 9:10 AM

#

@spice holly no did mk5 only yesterday

#

Mentioned it in the test

barren elm Dec 29, 2019, 1:09 PM

#

Make wire where you need it, ship iron around instead, takes less belts

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 1:10 PM

#

forgot to post here: update on my belt speed bug:
it doesnt happen with low tier belts implying the game struggles to calculate high amounts of items using splitters properly

#

use all output sides of splitters and feed them into a merger after the splitter to keep as many items flowing through your manifold

spice holly Dec 29, 2019, 1:26 PM

#

might have to do with game ticks then? maybe?

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 1:27 PM

#

probably yea

spice holly Dec 29, 2019, 1:27 PM

#

I would also make wire locally

#

belt in the iron ingots instead

#

it happens on other games as well, a bug where game ticks also affects certain speeds in the game.

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 1:29 PM

#

25% drop in items transfered is pretty bad

#

and it will only get worse for late game if we get faster belts

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

@sand garnet how does the internal splitter buffer look like?

#

do some items end up there?

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

dunno

#

but since the other outputs are blocked, I think they should be full?

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

well in ideal case they should be empty 🙂

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/32845/109693-conclusive-belt-speed-results-inside-serious-issue I added images of how I did the setups

[EX 109693] Conclusive belt-speed bug test results inside, serious...

Alright there's quite a massive problem with how splitters affect belt speeds in the current EX build ... utilized. This really needs to be fixed.

#

so you can test it yourself

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

did I tell you when I last opened SF? 😄

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

haha nope

#

how can I check the internal buffer? press F on a splitter?

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

May? July? Something around that

#

if I don't count testing my mod stuff

#

idk, they said that splitter has some buffer and I assume it can be opened and checked as inventory

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

you cant actually open it

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

hm

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

its just internal game stuff

#

but im assuming you can check by dismantling the splitter

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

you can also test the ipm throughput on the 2nd container

#

so just run the setup and have the 2nd container open and do a diff between frame counts

#

but all of this is also related to your FPS I assume

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

thats what I have in the screenshots

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

so unless you have 60 fps all the time, it may produce different results

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

in the screenshots from the link I have the receiving container UI open

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

I'm on a train wifi

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

and then in premiere pro I set it to the first frame where the item count reaches 500

#

and then skip ahead exactly 1 minute in the timeline and check item count again

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

images load with a rate of 0.00001% per second

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

subtract 500 from that count to find items transferred in that minute

#

I did 500 to prevent any initial startup of the transfer to mess with the total transferrate

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:25 PM

#

yeah, but also fps of video and game and recording is relevant. unless you have 60 fps on all three, it may not be accurate

#

not trying to bust your testing. just pointing out possible mistakes

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:25 PM

#

damn, some weird issue with my screen

#

so yeah you can actually check the internal buffer

#

if it's full it holds 9 items

#

📎 unknown.png

#

image says 2 iron plates, 2 cable and 9 iron ingots in this splitter

#

so that 9 ingots is the buffer

#

I just connected the splitter to the receiving container, will let it fill up to 500 items

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

yeah, 9 items probably won't make it only 70% of advertised speed

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

and then I'll check the buffer again

#

just to make sure transfer rate has been stabilized

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:28 PM

#

but if it fills up, there's probably some issue with splitter

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

every time I press F on it, it shows 9

#

now I'll put a merger on the belt after this splitter

#

and connect all 3 outputs to that merger

#

📎 unknown.png

#

first splitter in the line closest to starter container hovers around 7 items in buffer

#

rest of the splitters and mergers hover between 8 and 9 items in buffer

#

been mashing F to see frequent updates on the buffer size

#

honestly, I think tickrate is more of a factor for this

#

but having more than 1 flowing belt from a splitter output solves this issue

#

using 2 or 3 out of 3 for actually transfering items ( blocked output due to items doesnt count) allows for a pretty much 100% transfer rate

#

might be 1 or 2% less than no splitters or mergers on the line

wind spade Dec 29, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

interesting

#

any noticeable difference between 2 and 3 outputs?

sand garnet Dec 29, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

nope

#

also low tier belts dont have this issue

#

game can calculate stuff easily at those speeds

fierce ruin Dec 31, 2019, 10:03 AM

#

hi

sand garnet Dec 31, 2019, 10:08 AM

#

Hi

true adder Jan 1, 2020, 5:31 AM

#

is it normal to get 60 frames per second on a 2.5 ghtz processor? i have 4 cores and 8 cpus, technically i should not be able to play this but i am doing fine so far, will my computer blow up ?

wind spade Jan 1, 2020, 10:15 AM

#

It won't blowup lol

regal trail Jan 1, 2020, 12:14 PM

#

Same here gunmaker, my laptop is shit for games normally and I run this game pretty fine, just my fan is maxed out on 100% non stop

golden pulsar Jan 1, 2020, 4:12 PM

#

Errr

valid hound Jan 1, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

Hello, im trying to get the alternative recipe for heat sinks and ive reloaded like 50 times and cant get it, do i need to have researched some other ones first before I can get the heat sink one?

sand garnet Jan 1, 2020, 8:45 PM

#

just unlock all recipes along the way

#

save-scumming isnt nearly as effective as it was early on

cedar mica Jan 1, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

I just save scum for the first few hard drives, to get things rolling faster

sand garnet Jan 1, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

first few drives are always a very select few though

#

so its like.. get 3 drives and you get pretty much guaranteed the stuff you need

cedar mica Jan 1, 2020, 9:39 PM

#

Wiki list 5, but I feel there is more then 5 in tier 1-2

sand garnet Jan 1, 2020, 9:44 PM

#

there are , but the odds of getting the useful ones is what matters

valid hound Jan 1, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

Thanks guys

wind spade Jan 1, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

@cedar mica there are 6 alts + 2 inventory bonus iirc for T1

cedar mica Jan 1, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

So 8 options, meaning you might need more then 3 drives, depending on your luck

sand garnet Jan 1, 2020, 11:57 PM

#

theres a few important ones and a few less important

#

and since you get 3 options every time

#

it's very likely you'll get what you need at least

wind spade Jan 2, 2020, 12:00 AM

#

You need 2 recipes

#

If you get 3 drives, you should be fine

#

Even more with rerolling

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

Why would you use the second output of a freight platform ?

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:02 PM

#

to get more items out of the station in a shorter amount of time?

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 5:12 PM

#

So it's just about speed ?

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:13 PM

#

it's about throughput

#

instead of having only 780 items per minute on 1 mk5 belt

#

you now have 1560 items per minute because of 2 mk5 belts

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 5:14 PM

#

I see

#

Is there any way to choose what comes out of each output ?

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:16 PM

#

nope

#

its just a regular storage container inside a train station basically

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

Oh okay, I'm trying to figure out a sorting system

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

if you only have item in a freight station, you dont need it

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

What do you mean ?

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

if you mix items in a container, you need a sorter

#

if you only have 1 item per freight station it doesnt matter

#

no need to sort if there's only 1 item coming out

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 5:23 PM

#

Oh right

#

I guess my factory is too small, that's why I'm mixing everything in one wagon

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

yeah that's generally seen as a bad idea

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

So the best would be one container by item ?

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:25 PM

#

yup

slate swan Jan 2, 2020, 5:25 PM

#

Alright thanks for the enlightment

sand garnet Jan 2, 2020, 5:25 PM

#

have fun

glacial hemlock Jan 3, 2020, 4:12 AM

#

There are some higher tier alts which has no dependency from others, but there are only 5 alts milestones you can unlock at T1/2

swift panther Jan 4, 2020, 9:36 AM

#

Damn I played this since early access n Tom and greeny have be at it non stop in here lol, way to go guys

wind spade Jan 4, 2020, 10:38 AM

#

and I'm not even being paid for this

#

if I had this attitude for work, I would be manager at google already

glacial hemlock Jan 4, 2020, 12:16 PM

#

😄

#

As a player i would say it is almost Impossible to reach T7 without greeny's help

sand garnet Jan 4, 2020, 12:19 PM

#

<<< did it 😛

#

really depends on how 'perfect' you want your factory to be

wind spade Jan 4, 2020, 12:19 PM

#

rofl

#

depends if you count my tools as well

swift panther Jan 5, 2020, 2:42 AM

#

Well they should hire ya lol

cedar mica Jan 5, 2020, 2:44 AM

#

There is plenty of people on the modder side, that would be a boon to the dev team, but dont think there budget allows it

violet sail Jan 5, 2020, 7:52 AM

#

hey guys someone has any idea where i could find this?

after release around april mai i think i found a tool which showed how many of each item you produced over the lifetime of your save and also how many you handcrafted
was searching to no avail :/

sand garnet Jan 5, 2020, 7:55 AM

#

I dont know of any such tool existing at that time or even now

#

The map from #faq-old may have some info if you load your save there

violet sail Jan 5, 2020, 7:56 AM

#

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/ ? already went through it couldnt find it

Satisfactory - Calculator

Satisfactory helper to calculate your production needs.

sand garnet Jan 5, 2020, 7:57 AM

#

It has some statistics on the map page

violet sail Jan 5, 2020, 7:59 AM

#

yeah like stored items etc but thats not what i was looking for^^

wind spade Jan 5, 2020, 9:17 AM

#

You can't get that info from your save iirc

sand garnet Jan 5, 2020, 9:24 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

this is from anthor's map

#

Lol I need to upgrade my powergrid it seems

📎 unknown.png

#

got about 13.5GW and my max production would be 20GW

#

@violet sail is this the info you want

pulsar stratus Jan 5, 2020, 8:06 PM

#

Yeah you cannot have what was produced since beginning in save

sand garnet Jan 5, 2020, 8:07 PM

#

booooo 😛

violet sail Jan 5, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

@sand garnet yeah i saw the production tap^^ but not what i was searching for but thanks anyways 🙂
(as anthor said i was looking for all time produced items and im pretty sure it was another side not with an interactive map)

sand garnet Jan 5, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

yeah I honestly dont think it exists

violet sail Jan 5, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

im pretty sure i found something like this..
cant be i dreamed about it memory is to vivid XD might have been factorio though

wind spade Jan 5, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

there's no information in the save file about produced amount, so it's impossible that such a tool exists (and gives correct results)

violet sail Jan 5, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

makes sense

sand garnet Jan 5, 2020, 10:24 PM

#

maybe I should write something that just tells you random numbers 😛

violet sail Jan 5, 2020, 10:25 PM

#

XD well i just wanted to know how bonkas i went with handcrafting in my new save for update 3^^

wind spade Jan 5, 2020, 10:29 PM

#

yeah that's not in the save file as well

#

save file is basically only the current information

#

so where stuff is, how much stuff is there and where players are

brittle veldt Jan 6, 2020, 11:11 AM

#

As true satisfactory gamers, we will fix our whole factories

true adder Jan 6, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

i need help in more ways then one. https://imgur.com/a/1UyHJXI

Imgur

geniusthemaster@yahoo.com

sand garnet Jan 6, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

pretty sure that's not satisfactory related

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 5:43 AM

#

sorry if this is noobish but maybe its been discussed before, whats the max nuclear fuel rod output using all available uranium nodes?

slow citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

Wiki page says 84 a minute

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

roughly how many reactors would that be?

idle iron Jan 7, 2020, 6:21 AM

#

420? if none are oc'ed

#

I think

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

woah, alright safe to say im not concderned about power being limited...

glacial hemlock Jan 7, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

no one is getting power limited unless you have bunch of jump pads...

sand garnet Jan 7, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

you're limited by oil for that I think?

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

You need 1680/m oil, for the TW project

sand garnet Jan 7, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

honestly that doesnt sound like a lot

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

Thats will the correct combo of alts, to reduce oil

sand garnet Jan 7, 2020, 3:02 PM

#

ahh so the limit is something else?

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 3:02 PM

#

But you also use 4471/m quartz

#

Its High-Speed Connector and Crystal Oscillator recipe, that changes the main usage of those 2

#

With standard recipe 2240/m oil and 2480/m quartz

#

Then HSC reduces oil and increases quartz, while CO reduces quartz and increase oil

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 7:57 PM

#

hm so what would actually be the limiting factor? how much total quartz and oil is avail?

shy mason Jan 7, 2020, 8:02 PM

#

for 84 nuclear fuel rods per minute? it's the uranium.

#

having a factory that uses the terrawat of power is another question/issue they were talking about.

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 8:06 PM

#

oh, the reason i was wondering about cap and mat usage was because i use a lot of oc'd machines, someone told me i might run into a mat issue in late game but not concerned unless devs change ratios

shy mason Jan 7, 2020, 8:08 PM

#

honestly late game i run more into storage issues as I have no where to store the hundred turbo motors, super computers, heavy modular frames I make every minute to keep the machines running all the time. Or at least nothing I need to spend it on quick enough to justify the super factories besides the pride of having such a large installation.

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 8:15 PM

#

yeah, i find myself deleting bins, just put in the infinate storage bin for that reason but its expensive and trying to automate my way to it, saves me power for now i guess

#

my next question then would be whats the mat that would dry up first? oil?

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 8:33 PM

#

Oil and Quartz is the 2 current map limits, you will hit first

#

Then Caterium and Bauxite

dark wadi Jan 7, 2020, 8:45 PM

#

wow, I'm not even close to hitting any limits. Shows how much I have to grow.

#

nuclear right now for me is "why on earth would I ever need that much power. I'm already producing triple what I use and I'm just doing coal and oil"

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

well, when you oc everything to save time like i do and run 22 manufacturers constantly, gets to be a bit demanding on oil, and building 30 fuel generators per oil node gets to be repetitive

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

@sand garnet the limit for max nuclear is uranium

sand garnet Jan 7, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

thanks

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

though even if you build from every resource and make every end game product, you'll probably use only around 1/3 to 1/2 of the provided power

#

unless you go super hard with trains and jumppads, you are fine with just 1 uranium node instead of all 3

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

Yeah, there is a limit on uranium, but if you build 420 nuclear reactors and need more, you are probably playing at 1fps

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

*you have 1k trains on the map

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

1k train would do it

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

good to know, and yeah youre probably right i would run out of computer well before i run into power

#

so overclocking shouldnt be an issue

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

nope, unless you are one of the "I don't want to do nuclear power because we don't have a way to get rid of the waste boo boo"

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

If you use all resources on the map, you probably doing around 300k power draw + transport method

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

assuming you are only overclocking miners, yeah

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

So even if you overclock, you are safe. Just get a doggo farm, to keep going

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

and using decent alts

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

i plan on eventually putting my waste in a unlimited modded bin

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

though I'd still go with no overclocking except miners

#

uhh, that's cheating

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

dont hate me for not playing the vanill game

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

(was a joke)

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

i spawn in containers of shards... i know im a hack

wind spade Jan 7, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

hey, it's singleplayer game with no global leaderboards

#

only one you are cheating on is yourself

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

It saves some work. Like my current projected 649 smelters for iron. 325 is so much easier to work with

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:14 PM

#

im a glutton for punishment hence not worrying about power consumption, but farming doggos or slugs is just work and i cant cause i wont

#

yeah for sure, sounds like a job for area hactions

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:14 PM

#

Just have doggos next to storage bins and pet them each time you grab something. It quickly stacks up, also more healing items

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

im weak sauce and fall off the map like its my job

#

doggos wont stand a chance unless i play on god mode

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

Area Action is nice, but uses custom building spawning, so it just add lags in the long run. 70fps normal, 25fps building or dismanteling

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:16 PM

#

the lag remains after theyre built?

#

i havent seen that issue and i do massive inputs

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:16 PM

#

Because they are spawned in differently, the game cant fully deal with it. No issue for a few things, but if you copy 60 factory floors, you will notice

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:17 PM

#

more so than if you had built them free form?

#

i use it for placing every machine keeps lines neat

cedar mica Jan 7, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

I have built skyscrapers the vanilla way, no lag on build or dismantle

#

But this is not the place to discus mods

zinc delta Jan 7, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

yeah i guess i digress

shrewd yacht Jan 8, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

underclock to 50% on all macines and save 33% power usage 😛

#

no need for nuclear 😉

wind spade Jan 8, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

underclock all machines to 1%

shrewd yacht Jan 8, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

oh gawd!

#

I did try 25%, but it was just so damn slow

#

having to build x4 machines is a bit to much

#

wonder what the power saving is at 1%

#

the above calculation was done a few months ago now, and I can't remember the details

#

IIRC you gain the most for the first 50% of underclock

wind spade Jan 8, 2020, 9:30 PM

#

99.93% power saving

#

if running on 1% underclock

#

*99.94% rounded

zinc delta Jan 9, 2020, 12:28 AM

#

I’m kinda a glutton for punishment, and at the point in my game I’m looking for the challenge of more power

cedar mica Jan 9, 2020, 1:20 AM

#

Is there really a point for saving power, once you have estabilished a power plant?

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

yes, you can use less items for power and more for other products

cedar mica Jan 9, 2020, 1:26 AM

#

Speaking of, I really wish the calculator site, would allow for more then 1 alt choice, per list. Doing some computers with Quickwire, would reduce Quartz need, but cant get total amount, with current setup

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

what do you mean by that?

#

it allows you to pick multiple alts

cedar mica Jan 9, 2020, 1:28 AM

#

If I'm pushing the map limit, I might require some computers to be made with Quickwire, to make use of the last oil. But I cant say make 30 computers using Quickwire and 60 using Crystal Osillators

#

Would require multiple lists, instead of just 1

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 1:29 AM

#

that's something that's probably more suitable for consumption tool

#

since the calculator doesn't know the ratio you want to split in

#

or just make two tabs and see the total tab for it

cedar mica Jan 9, 2020, 1:30 AM

#

I guess

#

How accurate is the power save on the calculator? Downclocking to 10%, only seems to cut power usage to 1/3

#

53k to 16k

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

should be accurate

cedar mica Jan 9, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

Guess most of the power save then, is eaten by the extra machines

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 1:52 AM

#

yeah you need to account for the fact htat you need 10x mlore machines

barren elm Jan 9, 2020, 2:18 AM

#

What you're discussing in terms of overclocking though is trading more machines for less coal plants

#

If you're actually concerned about entity limits, then that's not a good trade

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 3:27 AM

#

I guess yeah

#

I'm mostly basing my math around theoretical limits of the map

#

and ignoring object limits

#

as we still don't have clear enough statement about what counts as how many objects, we can't really do math with them 😦

torpid robin Jan 9, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

I did wonder what the object limit is. I have played multiple games with them . But satisfactory doesn’t seem to have one ?

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 3:35 AM

#

it has

#

there's uObject limit a little over 2M

#

though some things count as multiple uObjects

#

we are not really sure what's the logic behind it

torpid robin Jan 9, 2020, 3:36 AM

#

That’s still a pretty freakin big limit

#

Anyone hit it yet ?

wind spade Jan 9, 2020, 3:37 AM

#

yeah a decent amount of people

#

they even had to do some optimizations so that things count as less uObjects

#

but people are still hitting it

#

mostly people that build giant foundation platforms or using tons of walls to encase their factories to improve GPU performance

torpid robin Jan 9, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

Oh shit

#

That’s what I’m in the process of doing 😂

barren elm Jan 9, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

It's big but a single machine doesn't equal 1 object

#

I don't know the specifics on that though

dark wadi Jan 10, 2020, 5:49 PM

#

what additional information would that provide you that is not already provided by the many "satisfactory calculators" we already have?

#

If it works for you, I would go ahead and do it. I just know that I'm more of a picture type of person vs a numbers person. That said I do you spreadsheets to calculate machine(s) required vs using the calculators that are available.

wind spade Jan 10, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

it's not there

#

also, why not post it here?

sand garnet Jan 10, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

removed because direct file share lol

tough eagle Jan 10, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

+1 for Excel. I started with a calculator but I wanted to use the exact resource nodes I had nearby and wound up with split recipes to take advantage of what was available. I then added a little table with all of the components inputs and outputs and some formulas to make sure the totals matched up.

wind spade Jan 10, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

I have a tool that allows you set what you want to use

#

so you can set you have 2 iron nodes and 1 copper node

tough eagle Jan 10, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

You can set the purity too? I thought I saw everything but maybe I missed your tool

wind spade Jan 10, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

you set the direct amount

#

in consumption tool

#

so if you have e.g. pure iron node, you put 120/240 in there

#

or whatever

#

you know that these nubmers are on wiki?

tough eagle Jan 10, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

I just found your calculator Greeny. It does exactly what I was doing in Excel. I hadn't seen it before. I'll probably stick to doing it myself for the fun of it but good to know it's out there for when I get lazy at some point!

wind spade Jan 10, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

well nobody really forces you to do anything 🙂

#

@brittle veldt don't delete messages plz, now it looks like we are talking to ourselves 😄

brittle veldt Jan 10, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

Sorry, not sorry

wind spade Jan 10, 2020, 7:27 PM

#

any particular reason for deleting?

earnest orchid Jan 10, 2020, 8:11 PM

#

People don't like to leave a trace they talked for some reason. Some people are just paranoid. Correct me if I'm wrong

wind spade Jan 10, 2020, 8:14 PM

#

lol

#

not like discord has backups or something so they can trace you anyway

dark wadi Jan 10, 2020, 8:15 PM

#

Or to remove topics that they no longer want to acknowledge/recognise.

earnest orchid Jan 10, 2020, 8:15 PM

#

I like leaving a trace. Sometimes I need to recall something and if you delete it you cannot search it

fierce ruin Jan 10, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

On the UObject matter, from my experience with building systems in UE4, things like foundations/walls require the actual models and the invisible hotboxes to place other structures snapped to them and those hitboxes also count as UObjects(I think), and this can bump the UObject count per structure up to like 8 or more UObjects

barren elm Jan 12, 2020, 10:49 AM

#

Yeah I figured a lot of the uobjects are probably the invisible snappable parts of machines, including stuff like power attachment and belts etc

#

I don't think it'd really affect how people build factories, but I sure would like to see what the uobject count of each entity is

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 12:27 AM

#

Finally figured out how to divide 3 60p/m belts to 4 45/m foundry inputs

📎 unknown.png

#

@sand garnet

#

1st half splits 2 belts into 4 50% belts, and splits the third belt into 4 25% belts.
2nd half merges 1 50% belt and 1 25% belt into 1 75% belt.
Bottom handles all the iron, top handles all the coal.

barren elm Jan 14, 2020, 12:31 AM

#

Is that... a balancer?

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 12:31 AM

#

a what?

#

@barren elm what do you mean?

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 12:38 AM

#

@sterile ibex why not just use manifold (overflow method)?

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 12:38 AM

#

because right now it's easily upgradeable later to MK2 belts and overclock modules

#

w/o needing to redo the entire design

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 12:39 AM

#

uhhh... you don't need to redo anything when using manifold

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 12:39 AM

#

what is manifold

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 12:39 AM

#

also, don't overclock buildings, you are wasting power

#

-S-S-S-S-S-S-
 | | | | | |
 M M M M M M

#

S = splitter
M = machine

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 12:40 AM

#

Oh, that

#

Because the best belt I can make atm is MK2

#

And that will choke efficiency the moment I add more than 120 input / minute.

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 12:40 AM

#

then add more belts after that 🤔

#

you can have multiple manifolds

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 12:41 AM

#

I mean, technically I already have that right now.

#

Each belt provides via splitters as much as efficiency it can provide.

#

only the foundry one isn't exactly like that because the demanded input is... weird.

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 12:42 AM

#

well if you have 3 belts going into 4 machines, just split 1 machine from each belt and then merge the rest for 4th machine

#

no need to do any crazy stuff like on that screenshot

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 12:42 AM

#

But I will probably do that in my second run later after U3 hits.

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 12:43 AM

#

also #protip: you can underclock machines, so you'll have 1:1 ratio rather than 3:4

barren elm Jan 14, 2020, 12:44 AM

#

With regards to future proofing, it's generally not worth designing factory parts around mk2 belts, because you get mk3 belts relatively early, and mk2 belts are just not very good

#

But do whatever you find fun, if you wanna make balancers then make balancers, it's just this channel is more for minmaxing so a lot of the replies are going to be assuming you want the same out of your factory

eager spindle Jan 14, 2020, 12:58 AM

#

mk2 belts are harder to make than mk3 belts from what i remember lol

slow citrus Jan 14, 2020, 12:58 AM

#

manifolds are simpler to set up and save a lot on space for sure, but it is fun to figure out balancers 😄

eager spindle Jan 14, 2020, 12:58 AM

#

steel vs reinforced iron plates

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 1:02 AM

#

it may be fun, but here in #math-and-meta we don't care about fun 😄

eager spindle Jan 14, 2020, 1:23 AM

#

what's fun?

storm ingot Jan 14, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

Fun is slug amusement parks.

rough sun Jan 14, 2020, 5:40 AM

#

once you beat the game

#

redo the your factory with mk 6(or whatever the max tier is) conveyor belts

#

and mk 3 miners

cedar mica Jan 14, 2020, 5:40 AM

#

How do you "beat" a sand box game?

rough sun Jan 14, 2020, 5:41 AM

#

by unlocking all the tiers

cedar mica Jan 14, 2020, 5:42 AM

#

Thats when the game turns into a full sand box, not when its beat...

rough sun Jan 14, 2020, 5:42 AM

#

by beating the game I mean you are able to do whatever you want

#

like rebuilding your factory with max level components

cedar mica Jan 14, 2020, 5:43 AM

#

Beat usualy means there is nothing left to do...

rough sun Jan 14, 2020, 5:47 AM

#

oops

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 7:21 AM

#

I build a factory in a way that doesnt require rebuilding

hasty pelican Jan 14, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

Does it help my computer if I put my factory behind walls?

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

only gpu

hasty pelican Jan 14, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

So, it would increase the FPS ?

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

if gpu is the issue, then yes

#

if cpu is the issue, then no

hasty pelican Jan 14, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

Yeah, won't fix ram or cpu :p

wind spade Jan 14, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

it could even decrease fps if cpu is the issue

hasty pelican Jan 14, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

Thanks 🙂

sinful garnet Jan 14, 2020, 12:15 PM

#

I refuse to rebuild my factory even if it should.

But I'll plug in better optimised sections for sure.

errant garden Jan 14, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

I mean you could download area actions

#

And make it much more easy

#

@hasty pelican hiding your factory with walls will help the gpu, which is the only reason my laptop can even handle it

tough eagle Jan 14, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

My GPU and CPU handle this game fine solo. When I'm hosting a multiplayer session, I start getting performance issues and walls help me there a lot despite not being GPU limited.

barren elm Jan 14, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

If walls are helping, then you're being limited by your GPU

#

MP is pretty janky at the moment though so I wouldn't be surprised if the system requirements are higher, since it seems to be filled with a lot of bizarre bugs

eager spindle Jan 14, 2020, 8:46 PM

#

If your CPU can't handle your factory, use fewer belts

tough eagle Jan 14, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

I have a 1080 and it doesnt seem to be maxing it. I tried turning down settings anyways and it didnt seem to do anything but walls did. MP acts really weird for me sometimes. The same area will have slowdown and then be fine a few min later with no changes

sterile ibex Jan 14, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

limpid jay Jan 15, 2020, 3:16 PM

#

Big boy

storm ingot Jan 15, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

Skybase 😞

red hamlet Jan 16, 2020, 8:55 AM

#

uhh it says its from 1 node, so how do i do this

📎 15536563741.png

sand garnet Jan 16, 2020, 9:12 AM

#

make sure you get the right purity node

light meteor Jan 16, 2020, 3:26 PM

#

Try using this in addition to that app
https://www.satisgraphtory.com/

satisgraphtory.com

Satisgraphtory | Factory Building Graph Simulation

Feature-rich factory optimization and calculation tool for Satisfactory game

steep vigil Jan 17, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

Is there some kind of map where all slugs are on?

wind spade Jan 17, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

see pinned posts

steep vigil Jan 17, 2020, 2:37 PM

#

ah thanks sorry for being stupid lol

wind spade Jan 17, 2020, 2:38 PM

#

np, you are not the only one. Literally everyone asks before checking pinned posts 🙂

glacial hemlock Jan 17, 2020, 3:33 PM

#

Or, before trying to google first. But it is fine...

#

It is gonna changed again in update3 so not much point

barren elm Jan 17, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

Can't see slug positions changing in update 3

#

They said it's reviewing game balance, probably the only map changes may or may not be node quality/position

#

Oh and the new area they showed off

pulsar stratus Jan 17, 2020, 8:40 PM

#

Slugs are easy to update

#

Only nodes quality and type has to be done manually

neon yew Jan 17, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

Q: is it worth using the wheeled vehicles instead of conveyors for long range transport. (before i get trains of course)

earnest orchid Jan 17, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

vehicles as long as you have enough to keep up with demand and have a clear path, and that wasnt a math question

neon yew Jan 17, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

no but it is meta

earnest orchid Jan 17, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

yeah, it was, but also #old-questions-and-help its a 50/50 where you ask it

neon yew Jan 17, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

fair point

earnest orchid Jan 17, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

im used to seeing mainly maths get asked here. have you actually read my guide?

wind spade Jan 17, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

vehicles are pretty bad, trains ftw

earnest orchid Jan 17, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

yeah trains are way better

wind spade Jan 17, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

I'd say trains > belts > vehicles

earnest orchid Jan 17, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

I always use belts in the start as its more predictable then the vehicles as you never know if they are going to crash

paper yacht Jan 17, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

@earnest orchid I don't know if it's by Design or something bugged in experimental but I have occasional belts splits/mergers where the physics breaks and I have to completely delete and reinstall them to get product flowing again

barren elm Jan 18, 2020, 12:00 AM

#

There's never a reason to use wheeled vehicles for reasons outside of fun

#

At the end of the day, vehicles consume fuel, belts don't, so belts win

#

I've yet to even see a compelling reason to use trains, even though I use them a lot myself (because who doesn't like trains really)

#

There's some performance related arguments for vehicles, can't really speak to those though, I imagine vehicles have less performance impact when they're in low attention mode, but obviously a lot more while they're near due to physics calculations and all that

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 12:12 AM

#

That's actually an interesting point

#

I've never actually done the math in my head, but at first thought a train isn't necessarily going to increase throughput will it?

idle iron Jan 18, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

depends if you run as many conveyors as outputs and if the train can keep its outputs filled the same rate/faster than you can pull out

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 12:16 AM

#

right but would that increase anything?

idle iron Jan 18, 2020, 12:17 AM

#

not if you run enough conveyors to match the amount of outputs on the train station

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 12:17 AM

#

like would having 2 belts loading the trains and 2 unloading the train be more efficient than just running two belts all the way to where they need to go

idle iron Jan 18, 2020, 12:17 AM

#

I still prefer conveyor belt master race, but then again I cant use trains cause I only do mp since I started playing again

#

2 belts running all the way would technically be more efficient since no power usage, both would have the same through put unless the distance is so large that the frieght containers completely fill and are on hold before next pick up

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 12:19 AM

#

yeah

#

and if the containers fill up it would actually decrease throughput right?

idle iron Jan 18, 2020, 12:20 AM

#

yes

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 12:20 AM

#

damn

#

trains suck 😢

idle iron Jan 18, 2020, 12:20 AM

#

but thats a weird edge case that wouldnt really matter

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 12:20 AM

#

game ruined 😢

idle iron Jan 18, 2020, 12:21 AM

#

they are nice if you are moving a crap ton of stuff since you can just place 1 line, but it requires more space on both ends, but can be worth if say you need to run like 4+ conveyor lines from the same rough area you could do 2 freight platforms and just 1 track instead of doing 4 conveyor lines across

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 12:24 AM

#

don't try to defend them they're dead to me now 😢

#

nah they're still super cool. I can't wait for update 3. I'm gonna make a whole big train base and I'm gonna post it to reddit and get an upvote. Maybe even.... two

barren elm Jan 18, 2020, 1:05 AM

#

The only time I'd be like "Yeah it's probably worth building a train", is if you're going for some oil heavy megafactory to route all the really sparse oil deposits back to your main factory

#

And even that isn't really a good reason because you could easily just build an independent factory around the oil nodes and make whatever you want on site, before belting it to your base

glacial hemlock Jan 18, 2020, 4:33 AM

#

Correct. Logistics is about shipping minimum quantity of items within shortest possible route

#

For showcase, it may be the other way round...

neon yew Jan 18, 2020, 7:22 AM

#

stupid question, anyone have a single clue as to how i would do a 2 to 1.5 balancer

silver sedge Jan 18, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

hi guys new here, could someone explain the math behind the spilting and etc? not sure if this is the right channel to post it

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 9:32 AM

#

a 120 to 90 is easy 🤔

#

if that's what you mean

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

split a mk2 belt to get two 60 per minute belts, then split one of those into two 30pm belts, then merge a 30 with the other 60 and send the other 30 into like.... a container or something. If that's what you mean 🤔

#

@silver sedge could you elaborate on "math behind splitting"?

wind spade Jan 18, 2020, 10:38 AM

#

@neon yew what do you mean by that?

#

@silver sedge it just splits into two/three sides

steep vigil Jan 18, 2020, 1:06 PM

#

Did any of you calcualate the gravity of the planet? .-.

cedar mica Jan 18, 2020, 1:08 PM

#

Its probably whatever the standard UE4 gravity is

slender patrol Jan 18, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

Yea

silver sedge Jan 18, 2020, 1:58 PM

#

@slow citrus yeah like the numbers, idk what it means.

#

would it just mean spilting from the the node into 2/3 evenly or

slow citrus Jan 18, 2020, 9:34 PM

#

@silver sedge more or less

#

there are ways you can kinda control uneven splits

#

like if you split a mk3 belt 3 ways, but use two mk1 belts on the outputs, it'll split 60/60/150

#

(I think...)

patent bough Jan 19, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

in theory that should work yes.

tacit scroll Jan 19, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

Provided that the input rate is fast enough.

wind spade Jan 19, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

iirc there were some issues with this

#

I won't rely on that

#

exact splits aren't needed in this game anyway

valid cradle Jan 19, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

Hi i found out that Satisfactory is Turing complete and i would like to discuss my ideas and I think this is the best place to do so

#

I made a reddit post about the topic to explain my idea

#

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/er0q03/satisfactory_is_turing_complete_and_i_will_build/

Satisfactory is Turing Complete and i will build a real Computer in it

Posted in r/SatisfactoryGame by u/SAO-Ryujin • 2 points and 1 comment

wind spade Jan 19, 2020, 7:22 PM

#

satisfactory is not Turing complete if you need mods for completness

valid cradle Jan 19, 2020, 7:22 PM

#

you dont need

#

it just makes it faster and easyier

#

i build all gates without mods

hazy meadow Jan 20, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

Not my cup of tea but if it makes you happy then enjoy

dim thicket Jan 20, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

It is my cup of tea, but I'm not understanding how you accomplished the NOT gate @valid cradle. Can you clarify?

valid cradle Jan 20, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

@dim thicket its basically a transistor with one always on input

#

As long as the other input is zero the smelter will fill up and the overflow will make the output one

#

If the input is one ( iron ore ) both lines are used to produce rotors and there is no overflow and the output is zero

dim thicket Jan 20, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

OH you're using the smart splitter to always push until overflow, I think I understand

valid cradle Jan 20, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

The only problem are the amount of rotors you produce and how to remove them like heat in a normal computer

dim thicket Jan 20, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

Clever way to do it, I've always been stuck on how to properly do a NOT gate

#

You could always turn them into turbomotors, combining them into a lot less space

#

But that's even more work

#

Can also bring everything into a central garbage, and delete it every once in a while

valid cradle Jan 20, 2020, 7:15 AM

#

Atm I have a storage container in every not gate but I think in a larger computer I will let them flow away like heat and store them elsewhere

#

If there is a way to exchange resources In the next update it will be so much easier to build this gates and to make them a lot faster

tawny chasm Jan 20, 2020, 11:52 PM

#

bloody hell, that reddit post

#

one of those ones that really makes you question if it is a troll or not

wind spade Jan 21, 2020, 12:05 AM

#

you mean the satisfactory computer one?

valid cradle Jan 21, 2020, 7:32 AM

#

My spelling or what is the problem? @tawny chasm

slow citrus Jan 21, 2020, 8:08 AM

#

so this alternate plastic recipe that takes 8 rubber and 5 fuel...

#

seems quite.... bad

#

am I missing something with this?

wind spade Jan 21, 2020, 8:09 AM

#

it's the only alternate recipe that is literally useless

#

you won't find anything that is advantageous

#

and you can beleive me when I say that we tried hard to find anything useful on that recipe

slow citrus Jan 21, 2020, 8:11 AM

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Yeah I'm sitting doing the math and I'm like "uhhh.... two refineries to fill a mk 1 belt instead of three?"

#

😄

#

that's actually funny

#

I'm gonna use it 😏

wind spade Jan 21, 2020, 8:11 AM

#

the only semi-advantageous point we had was busted when they removed alts from handcrafting

#

(super rare situation when you need a few plastic but only have rubber and fuel, so you handcraft the plastic using alt recipe)

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but now you can't handcraft alternate recipes anymore, so even this is no longer true

#

using alt plastic is highly discouraged as it's really like if you went from america to canada through europe for no reason

tawny chasm Jan 21, 2020, 10:09 AM

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@valid cradle the spelling doesn't help but i'm not going to hold that against you, hah - maybe i just misunderstood the post

#

it just doesn't seem quite right to me

#

and your reference to power shards makes no sense

barren elm Jan 21, 2020, 10:27 AM

#

I guess the alt plastic recipe was added as a way to correct a mistake if a player had overproduced rubber and fuel, and wanted to convert those to plastic

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But that... really isn't how the game works, but it's the best I got

slow citrus Jan 21, 2020, 10:30 AM

#

It's a fantastic recipe that's doing its best leave it alone 😡

valid cradle Jan 21, 2020, 11:12 AM

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@tawny chasm Power shards are just a way to balance the Not gate and reduce the time to switch between states. They aren’t important to to make it work

#

If you want I can try to explain the different possibilities to use the gates as memory or to calculate numbers

tawny chasm Jan 21, 2020, 1:19 PM

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@valid cradle that makes zero sense to me, powershards just control the power consumption and operating speed of the machine

#

unless you're talking about a mod that uses them todo other things?

valid cradle Jan 21, 2020, 1:20 PM

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You are right it’s all about the operating speed

tawny chasm Jan 21, 2020, 1:21 PM

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i thiiiiink i might get what you're trying to do, in that a belt with items in it acts as say low voltage/zero, and an empty belt as high voltage/one

valid cradle Jan 21, 2020, 1:22 PM

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If you didn’t use power shards the Constructor wouldn’t be fast enough to use all iron ore and if you switch to zero the output line won’t switch until all iron ore is used

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I always thought about items on the belt is one but in fact it doesn’t make a different

tawny chasm Jan 21, 2020, 1:24 PM

#

that kind of thing, but still, lag, lol, it doesn't quite work out for me

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yeah that would be more intuitive,but it doesn't matter which way around it is

#

i just happened to type it out that way

valid cradle Jan 21, 2020, 1:25 PM

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Really ? Maybe you can send me some screenshots I can help to fix

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Look at my screenshots from the post if you dident already

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 3:22 AM

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People who are running the 125/min super computers, what alts are they using? They can't be using all alts, there's not enough oil on the map for that.

rough sun Jan 23, 2020, 5:00 AM

#

overclocking?

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mods?
lying?

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 5:37 AM

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🤷‍♂️ No idea.

#

If they're using all alts except crystal osils the total oil needed is exactly the amount that's on the map, 9750

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 7:12 AM

#

@warm wren this is what the setup looks like https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/consumption?preview=1NkfXAGDBH

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

slow citrus Jan 23, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

@wind spade I know I already asked this in the questions channel. but I'll ask you directly since you wrote it

#

When using the satisfactory calculator's production planner, is there a way to easily remove an item from the list that you're already producing somewhere else?
The build I'm going for says I need to make 2.5 super computers a minute and so it includes all the materials I need for that, but I'm already producing that so I don't need to include all the caterium it says it needs for instance
Can I just do something to remove it? Or do I have to manually math it out for now?

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 8:20 AM

#

yes, you can open the "input" section and put stuff in there that you already are producing

#

oh, I just checked your question in #old-questions-and-help @slow citrus and you are talking about another tool

#

I don't think it's possible in that tool

slow citrus Jan 23, 2020, 8:32 AM

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good to know

#

time to use yours then 😄

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 2:33 PM

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@wind spade That only shows 50~ a minute, somebody was talking about running 125/min

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 2:48 PM

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huh, then you found a bug in the site 😄

#

aparently it doesn't share alternate recipes correctly 😦

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📎 unknown.png

#

alright, now it works: https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/consumption?preview=8rA5Ii9znQ

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

#

@warm wren there's the 125 SC per minute setup

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

As suspected 🤔 Not using alt crystal osils, only way to get the oil down to the exact 9750

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 2:55 PM

#

crystal oscillator alternate isn't really great

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 2:56 PM

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I tend to agree, but only because of the limitation of oil on the map. If we had mk2/3 oil pumps then perhaps

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 2:56 PM

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limitation of the map is a limitation of the game and therefore it's relevant for the math 🙂

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 2:57 PM

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True true

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 2:57 PM

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if we had mk50 miners and belts, then we wouldn't do any max items per minute math, as the number is virtually unlimited 😄

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 2:58 PM

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I just think it's amusing that caterium is supposed to be the rare thing... and yet there's more of it than oil currently due to mk3 mining machines that can go up to full mk5 belt speed and beyond 🤔

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

caterium isn't rare

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 2:58 PM

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By comparison

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 2:58 PM

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mostly due to the alternate quickwire recipe

#

you can just triple your caterium with that

warm wren Jan 23, 2020, 2:59 PM

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Yeah 🤔

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Then again stuffs about to change sooo...

mellow zinc Jan 23, 2020, 9:13 PM

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does anyone know how radiation radius is calculated? I was wondering if storing the waste at the top of my power tower would be a terrible idea or maybe feasible

sand garnet Jan 23, 2020, 9:15 PM

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greeny's website has a calculator for it

kind dew Jan 23, 2020, 9:17 PM

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coupon

mellow zinc Jan 23, 2020, 9:18 PM

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is radiation range a sphere or a cylander?

sand garnet Jan 23, 2020, 9:23 PM

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sphere

mellow zinc Jan 23, 2020, 9:25 PM

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sweet, I can store billions of waste at the projected height without having any problems on the ground

#

I think I'm reading that right...

sand garnet Jan 23, 2020, 9:33 PM

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keep in mind that if you count in foundations, they're 4m tall but 8m wide

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:14 PM

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@mellow zinc technically it's a sphere, but the calculation is kinda different from what you may think

#

if you are interested I can share the whole thingy how it works

#

but usually you can just check my tool for your setup

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

If you stack the containers, that has the waste, do the radius stay the same?

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:21 PM

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each item emits radiation all over the map

#

if the radiation reaches a certain intensity, then you start getting damage

#

up to a certain intensity, where you take max possible damage and increasing intensity doesn't change it

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:23 PM

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Lets say I make 1 tower that is 10 containers and 1 that 200 containers tall. Since they stack vertically, the radiation radius, should not be that different, no?

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:27 PM

#

there's no radius, but technically the range in which you start getting damage increases

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:28 PM

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So the range increase, regardless of how you pile the containers?

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:28 PM

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again, not so easy to say. Each item emits radiation all over the map

#

the radiation intensity depends on the distance from the item to the player

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:30 PM

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Guess a test would be needed, to see if there is any difference

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:31 PM

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just some math I guess

#

but I still don't get what two cases you are comparing

#

in your case, you want to stack them vertically, but compared to what?

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:33 PM

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200 in a tower vs 200 in as small space as possible

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As that is what most do, when they find a cave to stuff it in

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:34 PM

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200 of what?

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of waste?

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:35 PM

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containers, full of waste. Just to get some numbers to work with

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Calculator has that at 387.7m, for 0.2 dmg. But it dont say anything about how the containers are layed out

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:36 PM

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calculator assumes everything is in one place

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:36 PM

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So the blackhole version?

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:37 PM

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idk what you mean by that 😄

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:37 PM

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Everything in 1 spot, aka everything in a single stack...

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:37 PM

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yeah

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:38 PM

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So if you put that into normal containers, it would be less deadly, as its more spread out?

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:38 PM

#

yeah

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:39 PM

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So I guess the tower idea, depends on how many containers you can put on top of each other, before the radiation dont get worse

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After all, the waste should be out of the players range, at some point, as you go up

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:40 PM

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waste irradiates the whole map

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no matter how far you are

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:40 PM

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Yeah, but you dont need rad suit, for the entire map

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

there's just a range of intensity that does damage

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so no matter where you put your stuff, it contributes a bit towards the cap where you start taking damage

#

for long distances the contribution is pretty small tho

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:42 PM

#

So even if you fill 1 corner of the map, with a container tower, to store the waste in. The dmg radius will keep spreading, aldo the waste technicly never gets closer to you?

#

I mean, the tower only grows in height, so the waste never gets closer to you

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:45 PM

#

calculating with the tower is something I didn't do yet, as it's hard to do

#

but technically if you had infinite storage in one place, you could fill it to a point, where it covers the whole map with damage-dealing radiation

cedar mica Jan 23, 2020, 10:46 PM

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Thats a strange mechanic. As you would think that if you kept adding in height, the radius should stop growing, at some point

wind spade Jan 23, 2020, 10:49 PM

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@cedar mica here is how it works https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558648985980633088/605773255877460035/Radiation_Formula.pdf

warm wren Jan 24, 2020, 2:47 AM

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The 125/min super computer set up uses all the oil on the map 🤔 What do you power it with? You need at least some oil for nuclear power?

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 2:49 AM

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It would take half the coal on the map, but its doable

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12000/m coal gives 54000MW, which is enough, depending on trains

warm wren Jan 24, 2020, 2:52 AM

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So they're not making heavy frames? Or at least not making many of them. Would need the coal for the steel.

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 2:54 AM

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we're talking about hypothetical situation where user wants to max supercomputers

warm wren Jan 24, 2020, 2:54 AM

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I see 🤔

mellow zinc Jan 24, 2020, 6:22 AM

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@wind spade that's actually what I suspected, instead of generating a sphere around every radiation source and calculating how many the player intersects you just need to check player's distance to each of them. Idunno, Ive been told I have a strange approach to programming.

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 7:11 AM

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@mellow zinc well technically it's the same thing. Checking distance between player and items is checking whether the player is in a sphere or not :)

barren elm Jan 24, 2020, 8:07 AM

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With this resource sink, I'm so happy that we might finally have a concrete way of comparing factory outputs that doesn't involve deleting stacks of supercomputers from a storage bin and seeing how fast it fills back up

glacial hemlock Jan 24, 2020, 12:34 PM

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the distance check is mutual so whether starts from player or starts from the waste the iteration is the same. But i doubt that drawing a sphere is necessary... maybe just some Pythagorean calculations based on 3d coordinates

#

I am looking forward to the item deleter though.

rancid lark Jan 24, 2020, 12:54 PM

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the formula for the surface of a sphere is the same as a 3D Pythagorean triangle where the hypotenuse is the radius of the sphere. for a distance check though you don't need to perform the final square root if all you are doing is comparing

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 12:54 PM

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well if you want to check if a point is inside a sphere, you just measure the distance from the point to the center of the sphere and compare it with a radius

#

so those two things are essentially the same (spheres and distances)

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

I was talking about fuel efficiency in another discord server and there was an argument "I don't like the space consumption of nuclear", so I decided to give it a try and see how much space does specific setup take

#

I'm assuming 250% overclocked miners (mk3) on normal purity nodes

#

all building counts are taken from my tool and rounded up to nearest whole number

#

I'm not accounting for belts, but I assume the % increase of space due to belts is roughly the same for all setups, so it shouldn't change order much

#

I'm calculating it for 10 000 MW max production

#

coal
4 miners (3.7), each 112 m2 => 448 m2
200 coal generators, each 250m2 => 50000 m2

total => 50 448 m2

fuel
5 oil pumps (4.3), each 112 m2 => 560 m2
22 oil refineries (21.3), each 320 m2 => 7 040 m2
67 fuel generators (66.6), each 400m2 => 26 667 m2

total => 34 267 m2

nuclear (with alts)
(alts used: iron ingot, iron wire, steel ingot, stitched iron plate, circuit board, quickwire, silica, electromagnetic control rod, uranium cell, nuclear fuel rod)

8 miners and 1 oil pump, each 112 m2 => 896 m2
7 manufacturers, each 342 m2 => 2 394 m2
6 assemblers, each 250 m2 => 1 500 m2
11 constructors, each 80m2 => 880 m2
1 oil refinery => 320 m2
3 foundries, each 72 m2 => 216 m2
2 smelters, each 54 m2 => 108 m2
4 nuclear plants, each 1634 m2 => 6 536 m2

total => 12 850 m2

(I realised halfway through this calculation that I forgot HSC alt, but whatev).
(also, this doesn't include storage space for waste, but if we go by 5 ISC per nuclear plant, which gives you 400 hours if running at full speed, you have 50 m2 each => 1 000 m2 extra, which is not much)
(also, each of the miner is used just around 1% of capacity 😄 )

sand garnet Jan 24, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

i mean you also gotta take all the belts and splitters/ mergers into account for their space requirements right?

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/670409365421031454

#

belts & splitters ofc 😄

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

So Nuclear is better in all ways, except it will slow down your game after 500+ hours, as you cant stop production of nuclear waste, if you use power

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

well you can always build a bigger storage

#

but you need to burn the power somehow

#

500 hours of running nuclear plants is gigantic amount of power that needs to be used

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

I meant more in the you hit Uobject limit faster, with Nuclear power

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

I think that ISC counts as one (or a few) uObject

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

Dont each stack count as an object, even inside a bin?

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

the items inside are just metadata, that shouldn't count

#

I don't think it does

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

Even if it does, thats 49 objects per ISC. So just 42.857 ISC, to hit the limit that way

#

Thats one big ass warehouse

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:37 PM

#

it's just a small number anyway, you'd have way more from your base

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

Yeah, its most likely not storage that will make you hit the limit, but all the foundations and walls

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

yeah exactly. I mean I was thinking that nuclear would be smaller, but I didn't expect it to be this small compared to other setups

#

it turns out that the generators (coal or fuel) take a lot of space that people usually don't consider

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

A nuclear reactor is the same footprint as 2-3 generators

#

Its always "but nuclear waste cant be deleted"...

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:40 PM

#

1 nuclear power plant = 4 fuel gens = 6.5 coal gens

#

(space consumption)

#

if you check the message above, there are the exact numbers

#

I'm not considering 3D space, just 2D footprint tho

#

but I'd say that's fine as most people build 2D anyway

cedar mica Jan 24, 2020, 11:41 PM

#

Yeah, not many build 20+ floor buildings

wind spade Jan 24, 2020, 11:42 PM

#

yeah nuclear waste can't be deleted, but just a few ISCs per plant will make your save go on hundreds of hours

barren elm Jan 25, 2020, 4:43 AM

#

Well technically he's not wrong, because nuclear power's space requirement grows passively due to the user needing to manually extend storages

#

So given enough time it will eventually become the least space efficient way of powering your factory by virtue of how it works

#

I bet coal gets nerfed, or oil/nuclear gets buffed in u3 because of this, since from a minmax or "because I want to" perspective why would anyone bother with nuclear or oil power?

#

I suspect this will become an even bigger issue in u3 since I imagine supercomputers will be worth the most in the scrapper

#

And, well, coal has the least interference with supercomputer production

whole ermine Jan 25, 2020, 4:54 AM

#

Can't you just toss the waste off the map

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 5:14 AM

#

no you can't, how would you do it

#

items don't fall down @whole ermine

#

@barren elm well given enough time means "given 5k+ hours of gameplay", so practically irrelevant

slow citrus Jan 25, 2020, 5:15 AM

#

if you die with radioactive waste in your inventory, does your death box emit radiation?

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 5:15 AM

#

yeah it does

slow citrus Jan 25, 2020, 5:15 AM

#

rats

#

thought I was smart for a second

#

I should have known hehe

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 5:16 AM

#

nope, you don't have much ways of getting rid of waste

#

only vanilla-friendly way of deleting waste so far is filling lizard doggo's inventory with waste and killing it

slow citrus Jan 25, 2020, 5:16 AM

#

i like it

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 5:17 AM

#

but it's limited by lizard doggo's count

eager quest Jan 25, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

put it in a vehicle and drive it off the edge of the map?

#

just dont have anything of importance in your personal inventory

sand garnet Jan 25, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

Nope doesnt work

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

@eager quest the vehicle won't despawn and will eat your fps

#

and the items in the vehicle still radiate

rough sun Jan 25, 2020, 10:10 PM

#

can you destroy vehicles with explosives?

hoary igloo Jan 25, 2020, 10:37 PM

#

What exactly does damage vehicles, anyways?

summer field Jan 25, 2020, 10:39 PM

#

Mean tweets at Jace.

neon apex Jan 25, 2020, 10:42 PM

#

Probably

hazy meadow Jan 25, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

I think spiders damage vehicles

sand garnet Jan 25, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

what about falling off cliffs?

#

could be tested with some cheat mod where player is invulnerable

hoary igloo Jan 25, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

I drove off a cliff, died, but the vehicle showed on the map when I respawned.

sand garnet Jan 25, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

that just implies vehicles have more HP than you

#

not that they dont take damage

hoary igloo Jan 25, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

True, I reloaded the save before I got back to the vehicle

paper yacht Jan 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

@wind spade I was wondering if you might know based on the wiki for coal production non compacted what the .8 would equal as an underclocked value ?

#

See I was thinking that if you just take it in simple terms 100% is a whole 1/m and that's only .8 then it should be only 80% I'm not the math wizard it's just what I was thinking

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

@paper yacht 80% overclock on what? coal generator? if yes, then it's 80% of production

paper yacht Jan 25, 2020, 11:46 PM

#

@wind spade actually I was just trying to do an underclock of 80% I guess one normal mode turn coal production with 10 call generators per normal mode Mk2 then shunting the .8 to a smaller project.

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 11:47 PM

#

coal generators have the same efficiency as their overclock %

paper yacht Jan 25, 2020, 11:48 PM

#

I guess after all this time I've never really understood even though the compacted Colburn slower what's the point of putting that stuff in if currently until update 3 that it flows freely

#

Heard some discussion about possibly the nodes limiting and if that's the case the slower burning compacted coal that burns better would make sense

#

Hopefully I'm not confusing the crap out of you cuz I'm still trying to figure it out without making my head hurt even worse than it's already pounding

wind spade Jan 25, 2020, 11:50 PM

#

there's no point of underclocking power generators