but it seems like you'd need some upside down ramps to be able to direct yourself anywhere when you bounce up
#math-and-meta
onyx crag
woeful stump
i havent played with bounce pads, lemme go see how bouncy they are
realistically the best option might just be 8x4 ramps with mk5 escalators up
but thats a lot of building
onyx crag
wiki says 26m from a vertical jump pad
glacial hemlock
@woeful stump build some splitters that stick to the cliff as your jetpack landing.
Vertical conveyorlifts are good too.
woeful stump
yea its actually doable, most efficient way ive thought out is to make a 2x1 tile platform with walls on 2 sides, jump pad up, hold forward to get to next jump pad, then hold back, etc etc, should be able to clear 500m in about 15 seconds, shouldnt be many drop points higher than 500m
gonna have to build roughly 100 of these jump pad portals to make a 500m x 500m grid to my skyway, they take about 3 mins ea to build
woeful stump
i got crappy gyazo but heres a prototype of how it could work... can get pretty high pretty fast https://gyazo.com/b68d79680639e265805fb385b0347c34
~8 jump pads should get you to a height that can clear like 99% of the game
woeful stump
rough estimate, my entire skyway system can be built for under 50,000 items on the 2 million item maximum, you would average speeds of ~100m/s on the conveyors which means you could get from 1 corner of the map to the other in under 2 minutes assuming its a 5km x 5km square
building it however would probably take 1 person at least 40 hours, working efficiently
wind spade
@fallow lily overclock doesn't change the total amount of waste produced from nuclear plants.
glacial hemlock
@woeful stump good luck dealing with power issue.
fallow lily
I’m pretty sure that’s what I said?
uncut pine
gives any blog for optimations for the belts?
fallow lily
What sort of optimization are you looking for?
glacial hemlock
shorter belt? choose manifold!
fallow lily
What am I looking at?
uncut pine
this are 3 smelters for making steelingots
uncut pine
for 9 constructors, but i stucks so heavy i cant work all the constructors at the same time
uncut pine
steel beams
i make 270 steelingots and so i can make 90 steelbeams pro minute, say the tool
fallow lily
Build the constructors in a line, put a splitter at the input of each, and hook them all up.
Or, as it's often called here, a manifold layout.
uncut pine
also not so?
fallow lily
That is a manifold layout.
It's a pretty reasonable set up for high volume production.
uncut pine
ah okay
thank you, i will try it 😃
thinks the Manifold fill times tool helps a lot by this or?
fallow lily
Dunno. Never used it.
uncut pine
so new problem... i build this now (idea was the forumpost) but the last machines never or sometimes become some ironongots... why?
can only run 4machines of 12 on 100% but i dont know why
gleaming whale
cuz you dont get enough ingots.. or you have to fill up the last ones manually at the start..
uncut pine
but i make 178 ironingots and there can use for 12 constructors...
gleaming whale
because you always half the number of ingots (first splitter takes every second ingot for the first constructor, at the second its every 4th, then every 8th.. you double it with every splitter, thats why you dont get ingots at the end)
yeah
uncut pine
ahh
gleaming whale
but like this its very delayed
uncut pine
hm and how i can fix this?
gleaming whale
just take full stacks from the first few.. and put it in the last ones..
like this you fill up all the constructors and you should be fine
fallow lily
Manifolds take a while to fill, assuming you're filling them with enough ingots/second.
gleaming whale
if you have enought ingots
fallow lily
So a factory built around them takes a while to ramp up, but at steady state it works at full speed.
gleaming whale
exactly ^
uncut pine
okay thx
valid sentinel
there's an app or something like that to calc all your stuff?
woeful stump
@glacial hemlock power shouldnt be an issue, only thing that uses power are the jump pads, can just run a wire down from the lattice skyway for each jump pad platform
woeful stump
assuming I need 10 per launch point, with 100 launch points, thats only about 5 nuke plants... theres enough uranium to make about 1 terrawatt of power on the map
i dunno going anywhere on the map in under 2 minutes seems pretty hilarious... i cant see any reason why it wouldnt work
modest linden
360 nuclear power plants and 72 rods per minute...
you also have to deal with the 1800/min waste. And that is only at 900gw haha.
anyhow, 10 GW of power is going to be a lot of effort just for jump pads.
woeful stump
yea a 10x10x10 cube of industrial containers daisy chained would hold waste from a full terrawatt for like 100 hours
was just gonna make a giant cube of them in a corner of the map
each nuke plant at 250% can do 6.2 GW
wheat saddle
ok if i wanted to make all of my items in one area how big would base foundations be and i want like x*x
and yes i can have mulity floors
noble stratus
So what if the bare minimum raw materials to finish all space elevator deliveries?
glacial hemlock
Go green. y.
shrewd yacht
@noble stratus do you mean raw mined ore?
noble stratus
Yes
I’m trying to make a spread sheet but it’s a long process was wondering if anyone had made one yet
shrewd yacht
kind of hard to calculate as it depends on which alt recipes used
first tier unlock is 1233.3 iron ore
second unlock for T5+6 would require:
24350 iron ore
1000 copper ore
1250 coal
the current max T7+8 requires:
369833.3 iron
34666.7 copper
75000 limestone
121500 coal
64000 oil
but these are all with no alt recipes
the required raw mats change drastically if you add in alt recipes
got the requirements down to:
60296.3 iron
5518.5 copper
58333.3 limestone
40000 coal
37037 oil
8277.8 caterium
4444.4 quartz
and if you use the alt iron ingot recipe the use of iron vs copper shifts completely and you drop to about 20k iron and increase to 25k copper
tbh that combination recipe makes no sense as there is so much more iron on the map
plush whale
anyone got issues with efficiency on machines cause materials don't reach them even tho the math is on point and even bit more then needed?
Im making 580 rotors and 580 stator p/m in 1 factory and it struggles to get enough materials in the machines even tho im feeding it with exactly the right amount, and bit to much on the pipes.
empty hemlock
are you using a high enough belt to transport 580/min?
plush whale
using the 780 belt on everything, and then i use 60 per min belt from splitter into machine cause its 13x60 = 780 on reach row of assemblers for stators on quickwire
and 5 rows of that, totalliing 65 assemblers making stator
empty hemlock
ah there is your issue
splitting into a mixed belt setup will cause throughput issues cause of tickrate desync
plush whale
only 1 of the rows are with 60 min belts
wanted to see if that helped, but it does no difference. rest of the 4 rows are only with 780 belts
The issue is in more then one place, same with mmy 4x40 constructor rows for making pipe. it does not reach 100% eff on entire row even tho its sending 630 steel ingots and it uses 600 p/m for 1 row
fallow lily
Tickrate issues also come up if there's a factory that produces more than one of a product per cycle.
Like the iron rods to screw recipe.
plush whale
I tried the mod for item counter on belt, and that number is all over the fucking place
shrewd yacht
use one tier higher for feeding into machines
plush whale
cant use higher then 780
plush whale
not sure if my factory got to big or whats going on, but in my latest build this one. i keep have to remaking my splitters for them to work
they just randomly stop working
shrewd yacht
has happened for a few
vernal birch
need help from people with large train networks....
how long does it take your train to do a full lap of the circuit?
plush whale
my longest one is 12 min
vernal birch
roughly how long is the trip in distance?
vernal birch
i'm looking to fill a 30 cart train over multiple stops, i'm trying to figure out roughly the total trip length
shrewd yacht
that is going to slow it down a lot
plush whale
gonna need plenty of locomotives then
and running trains with multiplie locomotives leads to issues 😃
vernal birch
current plan is for a 24 minute buffer, reckon that would be enough to fill that train?
vernal birch
hence why i'm asking for trip times from large networks
shrewd yacht
would probably go with 2-3 smaller trains on a A-B kind of setup
plush whale
@vernal birch from star to star and then back, it loops it takes 7 min with loading
vernal birch
i'm not changing to smaller trains at this point
https://gyazo.com/fcd185eb9358adb00d6b968433919987
shrewd yacht
what kind of monster computer do you have?
vernal birch
wow okay, that's a lot quicker then i thought
plush whale
me or him?:)I
vernal birch
8700k and a 1070 runs this 60fps maxed settings
shrewd yacht
I've got two manufacturers making turbo motors and two making heavy frames, and that is pretty much at the limit for me
plush whale
im making 200 computers p/m that does lag abit even for my pc
which is prob one of the best in here:)
shrewd yacht
as soon as one of those chains start I drop from 60 to 30fps on my i5 3570k
vernal birch
are they behind walls?
plush whale
since there is no endgame endless resource i build super big facotries, they fill up and then it just idles. so if i would run all at once id not be able to get more then 5 frames with my 5960X and 2080
shrewd yacht
I see no point of building these massive factories if they cant be run nonstop
plush whale
perhaps, but for me the goal is to build big and neat
plush whale
and i dont store stuff more then 1 storage as a buffer, dont want useless stuff laying around
cedar mica
There is a mod that deletes overflow. So stuff keeps running, even when storage is full
shrewd yacht
thinking I might have to split up the factory and make things at different locations far apart
plush whale
i know but game would not be playable if i used that with the current optimization
shrewd yacht
and just have a big train network to move things around
vernal birch
i always have atleast 2 containers as a buffer, 1 to grab items from, 1 to stockpile and fill the primary container
sullen cloud
only one storage of concrete? Seems too less 
plush whale
got several, but i got several concrete factories
shrewd yacht
1 mk2 box of concrete is plenty if it fills fast
vernal birch
concrete is a different story >.<
shrewd yacht
but as kewzuii says I got 3 or so spread across the map
plush whale
when using the itemcounter mod for belt, it seems a 780 belt drops down to 720 and 660 alot when going past it
vernal birch
i just went through 10s of thousands without thinking
plush whale
even just going from storage to storage it cant keep 780/m speed the entire time, it drops often to 720
if that is accuratate, that explains why my factory does not run optimal
trail cipher
crazy you play already so much with trains even when they are still buggy?
sullen cloud
how long is the belt in between storages?
sullen cloud
Have u asked the author of the mod? He should have tested a lot and might give more insight
plush whale
trains are fucked up imo, when using a big railsystem with multiple amounts trains and stops. mine keep splitting a part. getting cargowagons driving alone and what not
vernal birch
my only problem with trains has been the annoyance of how you have to place tracks (they have to be placed in order)
ahh yeah carts splitting apart has been a problem for a few people, i think it happens with another train switches the track while a train is already crossing it
vernal birch
definitely will be fixed so i'm not worried about it at all, they released it and went on holidays, kinda was expected
plush whale
not worried, but mostly saying trains are not really useable atm unless you build closed loops with 1 train on it
and that is boring, i want a factorio like system with signals, parking and what not
vernal birch
what i just built is made for 22 trains :/
wait no 15.. mb
cart splitter 3000
https://gyazo.com/1ec03669fe55c23c7518187caf81ad33
plush whale
i built tons of stuff for trains already but im not using them yet
vernal birch
hey kewzuii, how many carts was your train?
vernal birch
yeah 1 locomotive for every 5 cargo carts works nicely
mine is 6 locomotives and 30 wagons
vernal birch
so going off your 7 minute with loading 4 wagons,
if i add 24 wagons (call it a stop for each = 25seconds X 24)
that's 10minutes of loading time added
add a few minutes for the train diving like a granny
24minutes looks like a good number to me...
i need 4 rows of my furnaces on this floor powered,
if i split my 30 carts into 5 rows that will power them for 4minutes per wagon X 6 = 24minutes till i need to get another train unloading
and all my inclines are like this https://gyazo.com/c013cdeacedef1680c4021b58b4b652f
plush whale
could just time it, i had to add 1 more train to reach my 600/m i needed.
and 2x coaltrains ran fine with same route, then i added my stator train. and then shit got weird 😃
ahwell, time to take a break, spent way to much time build something that does not work without any logic reason why it shouldnt
ashen spire
How many of the big generator can 1 Uran line (full build All mk2) Support 100%)
In germany they called Atomkraftwerke / Atomreaktor
vernal birch
120 uranium with some alternate recipes can give you 7.2 fuel rods/minute
90000.0 MW with 36 power plants
vernal birch
Why did the two nuclear physcisists die?
They had an odd number of uranium atoms and decided to split it even.
ahh i got a better one for your situation,
"I’m looking to hire a group of people to move toxic waste from a nearby nuclear reactor."
"I’m not gonna pay anyone but I’m sure you’ll get plenty of exposure."
crystal flame
Is it mathematically worth it to convert coal to compact coal?
empty hemlock
how long does compacted coal last in a gen?
empty hemlock
ah there found it, compacted coal has 600MJ, coal has 270MJ
so it depends if you have the sulfur to spare to add those 330MJ to it
crystal flame
What else is sulfur used for figured that out
When converting it though you'd need an assembler, so is the net increase in power significant enough?
empty hemlock
an assembler costs 12MW
crafting is 6 seconds so thats 72MJ used
and you gain 330MJ
empty hemlock
yep, so 990 gain for 72 cost
tho slightly more cause the extra miner for the sulfur, but thats not a lot
crystal flame
that's kinda huge
fluid ether
you also have to think about the alternate uses for compacted coal
empty hemlock
really the most important gain is the 60k energy in a single stack to the 27k of normal coal for a vehicle allowing for far greater distances
viscid raft
I wanna be able to put NFRs in vehicles. Easier than laying train tracks.
patent bough
what do you mean added loading time for more cars -- loading time is constant if all the cars are loading at the same stop
because they load in parallel
increased power usage maybe
wheat saddle
how many foundations does the manufacturer need? im guessing 45 or 55
i mean 4x5 5x5
feral dew
That's on the wiki, but I don't know off the top of my head
balmy sierra
how many coal generators can i use in overflow setup before it losses efficiency ? (by efficiency i mean that the generator consumes all its coal before getting some more)
i use belt 60 pm
balmy sierra
for some reason it doesn't work for me like that ...
have u taken to account that its overflow method?
feral dew
Overflow (manifolds) don't lose efficiency
The loss induced for each machine is factored in
So, a coal generator can't use more than 11.11111 max
that's all you need to know, as long as you have a suitable amount to fuel all of the generators, it'll work out
balmy sierra
yeah... i thought about it, by the nature itself of the method, it cant rly get to a point where all fuel would be used up no matter how long the chain is
thx
trail cipher
is the alt uranium cell recipe good?
feral ferry
you can produce 70% more uranium cells per uranium ore, if that's your priority
trail cipher
then only when using more plants
feral ferry
usually
trail cipher
i want the alt recipes i need now >.<
wheat saddle
Ok so using all the recipes including alternate and experimental from the Wikia are there some alt recipes that are better than others or does it just depends on how fast it should go
feral dew
I really can't make sense of that last part, but I'm guessing you're just asking which alts are better than others
Yeah, there are a bunch that vastly improve your production by moving some of the material load from one resource to another
There are a bunch which are simple flat upgrades
wheat saddle
Yes and no which alts are better than the regular recipes
feral dew
and then there are very few which aren't bad at all
alts are always better unless they are alt plastic
don't use alt plastic
wheat saddle
How many alt plastics are there
feral dew
just one.
wheat saddle
K
feral dew
A common strategy is to use copper iron, to turn copper into iron, alongside iron wire, and stitched iron plates
copper is also used to extend caterium in a similar manner
wheat saddle
Okay so I should use the the alt recipes except plastic
feral dew
yes
@wind spade knows a bit more
by a bit, he made the tool that calculates which to use
wheat saddle
Hey bro what's your time area EST?
feral dew
yeah
wheat saddle
Oh ok are you on at 2 pm?
feral dew
5:39
Maybe I went wrong somewhere, I'm not used to calculating time zones.
Why does it matter?
wheat saddle
Cause I want help building my mega factory and none of my friends know the knowledge I need and want to satisfactory with me basically
feral dew
I don't have time to build my own factory, much less someone else's. Make a post in looking for group, if you need help, just ask someone in satsifactory or here.
glacial hemlock
Maybe i should start looking at tier 7 items and review the wiki pages... i have stucked at trains for quite some time. Wanna find out the differences between different radioactive items.
wind spade
@wheat saddle alt recipe usefulness depends on your available resources and other alts you have and resources you want to produce
But alt plastic is useless
And I would suggest avoiding a few more, like caterium wire, alt motors, maybe even alt stators, screws, quickwire circuit board, caterium computer and beacon
feral dew
Every alt that uses screws increases efficiency.
No point in putting it in the same list as alt plastic, those are bad for completely different reasons, and is misleading to the people who do use screws
wind spade
@feral dew alt plastic is useless, the rest of the recipes are in "not recommended" list. Most of the recipes in "not recommended" list do increase efficiency. I'm just suggesting not to use them for various reasons
willow veldt
How many super computers/min do you fellows reckon is a good goal with future updates in mind? (Not looking to do 100+/min and exhaust all of my nodes)
wind spade
We don't know what will be in future updates. You should build for current patch and adjust when the update comes out.
pseudo jay
for the moment 5 - 10/m seems reasonable
wheat saddle
@wind spade wana be my friend or no
also why is uranium cell in the alt recipes in the wiki
willow veldt
@wind spade Ah yeah we obviously don't know the specifics of what's to come, was just looking for some educated guesses. Currently thinking 25-50/min should be good, granted that's a pretty big gap so still trying to narrow it down
@pseudo jay For the moment, unless you have some radio control alt recipes going for turbo motors I'd say that's not even necessary.
but I bet radio control units will have more uses in the future, so with that alt recipe in mind I'll probably want to aim for far more super computers
pseudo jay
i mean, with the pace of updates coming you'll have severaly isc worth of super computers at the modest numbers i proposed
willow veldt
Ah yeah obviously, but I wouldn't want to consumption to be higher than the production once said updates do come, really why I make such a big deal out of it is because I'm looking to build an actual factory and not massive platofrms that can easily be added onto. Most of my calculations lead towards the end goal of an estimate of space needed
Planning all of this with mk6 and and rough guesses at mk7 belt rates in mind as well, so that I have prepped for proper neat expansion when they do eventually drop
pseudo jay
^ thats why my factory has had it's tenth or so rebuild
sullen cloud
I am guessing that not more than 5 supercomputers pm will be necessary for building a quantum computer. Plus additional supercomputers for your storage..10 pm seems enough
little anchor
nothing, they've not been added to the game yet
wheat saddle
Ok then are rods > screws better or steel beams > screws better
willow veldt
What's defined as "better" is the question there
dim thicket
With enough alternates, you don't need screws or rods for anything
Otherwise, you need what you need and that's life
feral ferry
i thought using alts to make a top-tier item using the fewest types of raw mats was a fun challenge. ie supercomputers using only oil and caterium.
glacial hemlock
Consider only 1 unreleased milestone could possibly utilize supercomputer, it is not a great idea to mass produce it.
@feral ferry no, it uses iron? , copper, quartz too.
feral ferry
@glacial hemlock using the Caterium Wire, Quickwire Circuit Board, and Quickwire Computer alts you only need caterium
glacial hemlock
Caterium computer is not interesting
feral ferry
🤷
wheat saddle
To save space what's the best recipe for screws
coarse pulsar
Which one should I take?
wheat saddle
Is it 1 regular rod> 12 screw, 1 steel beam > 36 screws, 2 iron ingots . 12 screws
@coarse pulsar take the far right
coarse pulsar
ok thx
wheat saddle
Best Screw recipe? 1 iron rod> 12 screw, 1 steel beam > 36 screws, 2 iron ingots> 12 screws?
empty hemlock
best screw recipe is no screws
sullen cloud
And second best option is iron ingots > screws
wind spade
@wheat saddle best screw recipe is no screws at all
wheat saddle
Rly
wind spade
yeah
polar sleet
screws just complicate factory design since they easily max out belts. also most of the recipes that use screws, have alt recipes that don't need screws, and have better resource consumption.
shrewd yacht
only thing is the stitched plates actually need more wire per minute than scews, but overall it reduces iron consumption.
if you make scews from ingots then it really only add the scew machines that you still have to add for the wires
wind spade
stitched iron plates need 75/min wire, while RIPs need 120/min screws
wind spade
yeah but why would you pick an alt recipe that uses screws
and we don't really care about production rate, but more about raw -> final ratio
you can always build more machines, but you are limited by the amount of resources
shrewd yacht
well you still have to add machines for the wires and moving 75 wires/minute require more belt space
the limiting factor is belt speed really
wind spade
you can do close to 1:1 with iron wire tho
brisk crystal
So is Iron Wire and Stitched Iron Plates a good combo?
wind spade
definitely
shrewd yacht
a mk5 belt with wires can do 10 assemblers iirc?
wind spade
raw resource costs for 1 RIP
dim thicket
Best two researches in the game, and they mix well. Makes RIPs easy to make
wind spade
yeah, I always suggest to go hunt for them even before advancing to coal
and build the factory with them used from start
dim thicket
Don't build wire far away. Build a wire machine for every RIP machine. No need to have a full belt of wire
wind spade
yeah, if you underclock the RIP machines a bit, you can do 1:1 nicely
shrewd yacht
nice thing with scew plates is that you need 60 pm and that is 13 assemblers exactly
wind spade
13 is not a nice number 🤔
shrewd yacht
assuming you make screws from ingots directly
dim thicket
If you are using screws, do the same thing: Build a screw machine at every RIP machine. No need to have a belt full of screws
wind spade
^^
shrewd yacht
steel scews are not better than ingot scews I think
dim thicket
I don't know anything about the screw alternates lol. My goal is to ditch screws
But shipping steel plate sounds like a bit of a pain yeah
wind spade
raw resource costs for 60 screws
shrewd yacht
main thing with stitched is that it removes one product completely
wind spade
well, SIP + alt rotors, alt computers and alt HMFs
shrewd yacht
oh right, forgot to check that as on always
meh... I don't have a big consumption of these plates anyway
but I did move to stitched when cleaning up an old part of my factory
just had to add quite a few machines for iron wire
dim thicket
If you're using heavy alts, you're already very coal dependant. Building useless screws with steel is eh
shrewd yacht
Crystal Computer is an anoying one
it feels worse than QW Computer
but apparently it is not in terms of total consumption
wind spade
crystal computer by itself decreases oil usage from 64->16 per computer
that's it's main selling point
shrewd yacht
the balance right now seem to be between caterium and quartz
because the quartz usage is quite high with the Crystal Computer and the alt HSCs
tacit valley
Is enriched steel ingot a good choice concidering i have tons of iron nodes I don't use yet, or should i keep using the alt steel ingot cuz I'll need the iron ?
shrewd yacht
afaik no
you need compacted coal for that and that will add more resources to consume
without checking I think you increase the coal consumption by a lot and add sulfur
tacit valley
Well, is sulfur that important ?
Plus, I think it reduces the amount of coal you use to make steel
wind spade
iron is never a concern. We have tons of that and if we need more, we can get more from copper + iron alloy. Enriched steel is useful to decrease coal consumption (well, replace part of the coal with sulfur). Since sulfurs only usage is compacted coal and that only can be used for enriched steel, then I'd say use any sulfur you find for enriched steel and use the alternate steel ingots (iron ingots + coal) for the rest
shrewd yacht
actually alt uranium cells use sulfur
probably not a lot to power it all total, but its there
and iirc compacted coal was very efficient for power generation?
wind spade
oops, sorry. Yeah, after alt uranium cells (and batteries, if you will), you should burn the rest to compacted coal -> steel
compacted coal is 4th most efficient fuel, yeah
after nuclear with alts, coal and nuclear without alts
well unless you are running out of coal, you shouldn't upgrade from coal anyway
that is, until you get to nuclear
wind spade
nuclear is more efficient than just burning coal for power
only by a bit, but it is also way more powerful
since you can get like 3/4 of available power on the map just from nuclear
1050 GW
compared to like ~250 GW from all the other power sources
shrewd yacht
well, unless I get a much faster computer or CS do miracles with optimisation I will not need nuclear power 😛
tacit valley
Thx @wind spade
shrewd yacht
tbh, unless you build a factory so big that you tap all available resources, then you can pretty much do as you like
wind spade
well I won't put it that way, since hitting the oil cap is pretty common without alts
tacit valley
Well, I use 2 oil nodes to provide me power, and so far it has been more than enough
dim thicket
I don't care about energy efficiency, all that matters is (Energy output - Energy cost) of a resource
wind spade
no, then it's pretty straighforward 😄 nuclear > turbofuel > fuel > compacted coal > coal 😄
but with the efficiency, that's a bit more interesting
sullen cloud
Batteries > turbo fuel
patent bough
but you can't power your factory with batteries
wind spade
batteries aren't usable for power
only for vehicles, and who uses vehicles nowdays lol
apart from personal driving
they are pretty much useless now, when we have trains
dim thicket
It looks like you're doing (power from/Energy provided)
patent bough
in my current save i drive an explorer to new places to birng extra building materials, but once i have train tracks laid out i just use an engine to go back and forth
tacit valley
I didn't get to trains yet, do they use a lot of energy ?
patent bough
*bring
shrewd yacht
trains are 25-110MW per loco
dim thicket
They can use 120 MW or so
wind spade
@dim thicket yeah, basically calculating the amount of power from a fuel that can be used for something else than the producing of said fuel
patent bough
cost per locomotive plus uhhh some when they load/unload
which i was going to check on and forgot to
wind spade
50 MW per platform + 50 MW per station
shrewd yacht
idle the loco uses 25
dim thicket
I don't see such a ratio as useful. All that matters to me is the amount of energy I can pull out of the ground per minute
wind spade
in earlier patches it was 50 MW draw all the time but I got some reports, that they are consuming power only on load/unload
patent bough
ah is that what it is
that seems about right for the power spikes i've seen with my giant 10 freight car train
shrewd yacht
oh so each loading/unloading section uses 50MW when train is at station?
tacit valley
Btw geo thermal generator are 100% efficient 🤔
dim thicket
No no, I mean I can't justify using (power from/Energy provided) when rate of power production is the important metric
And I've still not used 2K, but I'm planning on changing that
shrewd yacht
if each station segment uses 50 when active then that will cause some big spikes once people get a lot of trains
wind spade
well, needing only ~30% of the max available power is a good reason to focus on the most power efficient fuels, no?
dim thicket
Not when upgrading it gives more power, even if the ratio becomes worse
sharp carbon
any calculator that optimizes according to belts speeds?
everyone i find doesnt account for belt speed , for example if only have mk 1
wind spade
you can always underclock to fit the stuff for belt speed
but you can also build more belts
so I don't see a point of really considering belt speed in the build
glacial hemlock
Instead of a single mk4 belt, for example, you could stack 8 mk1 belts on top of each other, if you desperate on the throughput. And you could stack belts even before researching logistics mk2
ornate flint
I've completed building the production line for heavy modular frames. But when completed I decided already to scale up and double at least the production
I'm at 5.5x min but wanted to go at least 11... Is it better to get the missing materials (concrete) or to get the limestone and have all the production line on place
dim echo
royal mango
cues the music I've got the power
wind spade
stops that music
cedar mica
@wind spade I think the buildings part of the calculator is a bit off. Items says " 0.17037 x Oil Pump (Normal)", yet buildings say "3x Oil Pump (Normal) "...
wind spade
the building view rounds up every production line
cedar mica
Sure, but why would you build 3 oil pumps, if you are using less then 1 normal worth?
wind spade
some people build separated factories for separated items
and also, power shards would be calculated wrongly
if one production line would have 200% overclocked pump (0.5x) and other one 250% overclocked (0.5x), the building view will display "2 pumps, 5 shards in total". But if it didn't round up, then it would display "1 pump, 5 shards"
glacial hemlock
omg. patch notes are lit!
I would like to do more measurements regarding trains... partly because automating fuel rods might take some time...
sage current
Hiya Greeny, itis me again, I hope that I do not make a stupid mistake again.. But I just put a savegame on the website, but it does not show anything anymore
Old save still works, but a new save (after the patch) is not working
glacial hemlock
IIRC the map is not modded by greeny.
wind spade
we have this already sorted out 😉
nova falcon
hot moth
Hi, How do I do a load balance for 60 to 48 ?
dim thicket
First, consider using a manifold. 99 times out of 100, people who ask that question don't need to balance anything at all
If you recognize you need to balance, search a 1 to 5 balancer on Google
hot moth
Ty @dim thicket Will look into manifold
patent bough
am i wrong for building manifold mergers on top of splitters and using vertical belts to route the output back on top of the input?
i just think it's neat
and it's an extendable pattern as long as i leave myself room to build
for some stuff it's a bad idea (if output product totals go over belt capacity) but otherwise...
dim thicket
How? Like using a lift over every machine to bring the output back over?
patent bough
yep
just means i have to leave a little room between splitters and machines
and if i get picky about the alignment i end up fidgeting a lot or i just end up with mismatched lifts with slanted belts between them
i wish it gave guidelines for vertical belts facing each other
if i dont do that i just end up merging separately on both sides and idk
dim thicket
It's neat, but why not just keep the output on the output side?
patent bough
because there's two output sides and i want my output in one place and not two
and yeah sure i could merge it along both sides and then merge it one more time but eh
depending on what i need it for i could even leave it split
glacial hemlock
Its your preference. If you think that realignment worths to take your time.
Building belts in satisfactory is too easy. Sometimes you can rest it on a machine, sometime you can rest it on a power cable.
willow veldt
Do you fellows reckon it to be far fetched to imagine that mk7 or 8 belts (probably 8) would be able to transport 1200 resources? This mostly with overclocked pure nodes in mind
modest linden
imho that really depends on how much optimizing the networking helps
wind spade
I think that mk6 will transport some number around 1200
however I never really suggest planning for the future, since it's EA game 😄
willow veldt
wise, but I'd rather plan to and build more production facilities than needed compared to too few 😃
But you're probably right about the mk6 guess being 1200, I for some reason undermined the value gaps between 4 and 5.
My current iron prodcution I'm setting up is ment to support 1.2 belts, with the possibility of expansion
will be running at roughly 70% efficiency for the setup until that point but that's fine (14 smelters not getting any input)
wind spade
well you can always improve your production. but tearing down a build just because you need different endgame item than the one you massed is PITA
willow veldt
Oh obviously, but keeping it basic for now with the raw resource refining kostly
wind spade
I just rather build small-ish to keep the production for current tier than overbuild for next tier (talking about T8+)
feral ferry
the only thing you can really do to prepare for higher tiers is reserve space
willow veldt
@wind spade My first factory that I keep around as a fallback does basically just that already
2 super computers/min
neon pier
I agree. Especially after I thought trains would need aluminium and spent a long time preparing that before they were released...
feral ferry
the clue there is that trains are only in T6, whereas aluminum is T7
glacial hemlock
Trains were T7 before released.
feral ferry
i thought they were T6? i seem to remember someone playing an "edited" save with trains being in T6
wind spade
trains were assumed to be in T7 for whatever reason. Idk about edited saves tho
neon pier
Hence my bad assumption. I should have realised that track would have to be steel based - aluminium rails would seem to be a bad idea... 🤔
glacial hemlock
The thing is we not sure whether the old version of train uses turbo motor or not
wind spade
@wooden rune
wooden rune
Coolio, thanks for that!
woeful stump
looks like you can make about 78 nuc rods/min with alt recipes before you get constrained on uranium, which should power about 156 plants running at 250% for net grid capacity of right around 1 TW
i think thats what the wiki calculated as well
woeful stump
i think that assumes you can use all of the uranium, mk5 belts cant move it all atm
wind spade
however you hardly need that. 1 node should be enough for 99% of bases
mk5 belts move 780 ipm
woeful stump
ohh then my math was off i thought 570 for some reason
wind spade
you can only produce 600 ipm from one node
woeful stump
32 uranium cell builders and 56 nuke fuel rod makers
wind spade
and yeah, it's 84
fallow lily
Since when does "need" have anything to do with what people choose to do in this game?
woeful stump
fuk i used excel forgot that tool existed
fallow lily
The alternate recipes analyzer is one of my favorite bits of it.
woeful stump
you need about 1.6x1.6km square to get 168 nuke plants on your map
wind spade
3D space 😉
woeful stump
yea if u have height to make 4 levels u can do a .4 km cube
wind spade
@fallow lily thanks 😉 it's not much known tool, but I would say that it's very useful for most people
it only had 3400 unique visits so far, compared to 100k of the calculator
fierce ruin
If I doubled or tripled my generators in theory the total burn rate will slow down per generator?
fallow lily
In practice, too.
woeful stump
yes consumption is based on usage not capacity
fierce ruin
Just thinking about ways to reduce the overall waste output
fallow lily
There's no way to do that.
fierce ruin
Right now I'd be producing 500 waste every 10 minutes based on my current setup
fallow lily
Aside from "Use less nuclear power".
And you'll continue to produce 500 waste every ten minutes. It'll just be distributed among more reactors.
wind spade
yeah, if you double your reactor count, you half the amount of waste produced per reactor
so in the end, you produce around the same amount
fierce ruin
Basically there is not much point as you end up with the same amount of waste regardless just would take longer to burn the rods to get there
wind spade
in theory, you could build like 100k gens, fill them all with 1 nuclear fuel rod and then connect them at the same time. That will give you a lot of time before they produce the first waste.
but that's just unreal in practice 😄
fallow lily
Technically everything's Unreal.
woeful stump
GOT EM
thatd be interesting to test how many significant digits the game keeps in calculations rofl
make 100k generators and have the first waste take like 5 years to pop
fallow lily
I think other things would pop first.
wind spade
also, that is based on the assumption, that waste gets generated after 1/25 of energy is used. However I haven't confirmed that, since I didn't really get to nuclear yet
it seems logical, but if they do the first waste production when the item is consumed, you can't really help it
fallow lily
You know, I was going to say that having to deal with 100k waste all in one moment would be a bit of a problem.
Then I remembered that having 100k reactors to begin with presents far more immediate problems.
wind spade
with that number of generators, you can probably leave the waste in the output slot 🤔
glacial hemlock
With 100k nuclear plants, you will go insane before you even accumulate all the required building resources
fluid berry
When at the reactor stage, you should have tec and mats to harvest energy from all geysers too. Heared they always run at 100%, that would make waste output slow down abit too
placid inlet
if u dont connect any belt to the nuclear waste output what happens
wind spade
the same thing as with all machines, output slot will get filled and when it's full, the machine stops running
worthy mist
@woeful stump interesting that you only got 168 when the max for 84 according to Greeny's calculator is 420 (blaze it)
wind spade
good point, I missed that yesterday
dim sparrow
a
wind spade
b
summer field
math is difficult enough without adding algebra to it.
dim sparrow
yes
patent bough
Algebra is easy
ivory sentinel
Yeh
woeful stump
84 rods feeds a 250% nuke plant for 2 mins doesnt it? thus u can support 168 nuke plants I would think
or 420 at 100%
empty hemlock
never overclock powergens, it's pontless
woeful stump
means u can build and wire hundreds less nuke plants
wind spade
also not waste 504 power shards
empty hemlock
well if you have 450 power crystals spare
woeful stump
ye i got more tahn i can do anything with but i guess
wind spade
really? you have more than 900 power shards (for all the miners)?
woeful stump
yee boi
wind spade
so you are the guy who is farming slugs from lizard doggos?
woeful stump
looks like theres about 1200 on the map
wind spade
my calculations (although they were from previous patch) were that you have like 50 shards extra
empty hemlock
also why not just throw the slugs into other machines then? having 168 gens at 250% overclock running at 10% usage is not gonna use anymore rods than 168 gen at 100% clockspeed
woeful stump
mostly cause i want to max nukes for the lolz without having to eat 1/8th of the world map to slap 450 of em haha
wind spade
people just forget that 3rd dimension exists
anyway, new calculations for current patch: if you fill all miners with power shards, you get left with 322 extra
woeful stump
i have a bond villain base thats inside the waterfall void, i can only got 3 or 4 stories in there with how i have it set up
wind spade
so you still need to farm some slugs even if you found all of them on the map
woeful stump
i mean yea technically but id assume most players who are maxing out their game for the lolz also are using that which cannot be named to get extra cells/etc
eager spindle
that alt plastic recipe needs some serious help
how tf does adding fuel to rubber produce plastic
wind spade
I'm wondering how many people actually use that recipe without knowing
eager spindle
"it's an alt recipe it must be good"
robust vessel
@fierce ruin making a mini bootstrap computer plant and it will make it so I don't have to have an extra production step to take rods from ingots
glacial hemlock
@eager spindle by people with full head of screws.. haha
pseudo jay
Honestly I want a synthetic fabric recipe using plastic or oil
Just so making filter production completely automatable
trail cipher
Or a tree farm to get wood and leaves
patent bough
Ooo polyester recipe yes please
Let me automate filters without feeding in biomass and shrooms
exotic rain
I'd like to see a "Plasteel" recipe - Plastic + Limestone + Foundry = Steel.
glacial hemlock
Omg?!?
wind spade
@exotic rain that recipe would be essentially useless
exotic rain
Might be nice in areas of the map where coal isn't abundant.
wind spade
oil is currently the most needed resource. Adding it to a mix doesn't justify saving of coal
coal isn't really a bottleneck
exotic rain
then . don't use the recipe? It's less-useless than alt-plastic 😃
fallow lily
Oil pump Mk 2 when?
onyx crag
alt plastic seems like it'd be good if you don't want to use a third train car to carry fuel, rubber, and plastic
sand garnet
hey greeny, you can probably help me with a question i had earlier today
your site has a double manifold option to show how long it takes for stuff to fill up
but in my calculation it is faster to have the splitters on the outside than on the inside
empty hemlock
is is the same speed. if you use the same input rate
if you double the input rate cause you use 2 inputs then obviously you fill it faster
sand garnet
i have 1 splitter at the start that splits off items to 2 lines of smelters
so more items will go to the end of the line
wind spade
@sand garnet double manifold means that you split for two machines with each splitter
sand garnet
yeah but thats not what i want
i want a reverse of that
in double manifold, the items get put out on the outside
i want what in a double manifold is the row of splitters, to be the mergers
so feed from outside
that way instead of splitting into 3 at each splitter, you split into 2
wind spade
those are essentially two manifolds with half the ipm input and half the machine count
sand garnet
same machine coubnt
wind spade
no
sand garnet
just reverse the input/ output sides of the machines
wind spade
so you can just calculate that by dividing input ipm and machines by two and put that in as a normal manifold
@onyx crag no, don't use alt plastic. It's bad. It's not worth. Don't even pick it from HDD
you don't use much plastic anyway. Most of the alts allow you to replace plastic with rubber
onyx crag
exactly, but you still need a little bit of plastic
wind spade
yeah and you should get that from oil, not alt plastic
onyx crag
that would mean devoting another train car to oil
polar sleet
though the thing with trains is that you could just dedicate one car to plastic and the rest to rubber, and thus completely negate the need for alt plastic recipe.
wind spade
there is no need for alt plastic anyway lol
polar sleet
since you make both from oil sites, and anyplace that needs plastic likely use rubber as well.
onyx crag
I already dedicate cars to rubber, turbofuel, fuel, and compacted coal to make the turbofuel
and have a tower of containers full of extra rubber and fuel
cedar mica
Alt plastic, is more just to get rid of your fuel, when you go nuclear
wind spade
well you should go coal > nuclear anyway
fuel is just horrible and at the time you get turbofuel, you can probably already have nuclear or be close to it
cedar mica
Depends on how much juice you need to kick start the nuclear, I guess
polar sleet
@wind spade is it though? is there enough coal that using only coal is best? nuclear can generate a lot of power for very little of any given resource, if you use the right alt recipes.
wind spade
yeah, you use 18% of power generated by fuel just to run the fuel production
with coal, it's only 5%
nuclear with alts is around 3.5%
polar sleet
true but you're forgeting the power per item factor
wind spade
well you mostly don't have big enough factory that you will run out of coal and sulfur
polar sleet
even if it costs more power to make power, if the item cost is significantly lower, it math back out to a overall gain.
basically it's more of a matter of net power production per items used that matter most for efficiency in this game.
wind spade
yes
@polar sleet that would be true if you are limited by amount of resources, which you probably aren't at the stage where you unlock oil, since you hardly touched all nodes
rich mirage
I researched a lot of hard drives and still didn't get neither
cedar mica
39 alts in total, I belive
wind spade
I assume you need to have nuclear unlocked for them to show up
rich mirage
I have tho
polar sleet
@wind spade I know. though in a sense we are limited in the number of raw items produced per min.
wind spade
yeah, but that's what I'm talking about. You don't hit the limits at the time you unlock oil
and you probably won't hit them before nuclear
polar sleet
I know. it just technically we are limited, but practically, we don't really use all the nodes.
so yeah "infinite" resources
rich mirage
is there a way to calculate how much power I can get from one uranium node with all best alt recipes?
polar sleet
yeah, the best alt recipes will always include all the alt uranium recipes so far. thus it's a easily calculatable amount per uranium node.
wind spade
just greeny. I don't need the 😄
polar sleet
the real challenges of nuclear seem to be a combination of factory creation, and waste management.
wind spade
waste management is so easy tho. Just put a few containers down and be done with it 😄
rich mirage
polar sleet
I'm not sure how many hours it took me to make the fuel rods factory just to power my 15 power plants. and i still need to make the waste dump.
rich mirage
floating points are really annoying
fallow lily
The high demand for oil products also works against fuel generators.
polar sleet
yeah fuel seems great since it's easier to get large amounts of power. but then you do math and realize that it hogs a high demand resource.
you can try coal. but that caps out pretty quickly, once you start making multipule large facotries.
wind spade
@rich mirage I assume that's because it's like 0.000000000000000045 ore extra or something lol
yeah, coal is cool, you can boost it with sulfur (it's only a little bit worse) and then go straight to nuclear. Only use turbofuel if in dire need of power and no coal left (and never use the plain fuel, it's just so bad 😄 )
polar sleet
yeah despite being an oil hog, turbo fuel can give you some beastly power levels. that being said, when your ready to make your bigger factories for things like supercomputers. you might want to switch to nuclear first to free up the oil for rubber production.
glacial hemlock
just managed to complete 3rd delivery with my brother in MP mode, around 15 hours mark. Also automated cartridge, oscillator and SC at minimum production. Man it took so much brain juice. Even setting up a temporary SC production (1.9 /min) took both of us 1 hour
wet coyote
anybody know the website to calculate things??
wind spade
long hearth
fierce ruin
Just to even things out
https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/
fierce ruin
Look at greenys comment Tom
fierce ruin
aren't we all lazy?
fierce ruin
is there a way to find out how much output a train has over a distance ? like a belt in item/min ?
so i have to measure the time the train needs and use the numbers shown there and multiply the number by 2/3
fierce ruin
the 2nd table is alrdy multiplyed?
wind spade
that shows the times already modified for one train car instead of full platform
the 2nd table shows the time how often does a full train need to come
fierce ruin
so if i understand it correctly with 2 MK2 belts a train should arive every 10mins ?
wind spade
depends on your stack size
fierce ruin
with a 500
wind spade
which item are you talking about
fierce ruin
ah okay i think i get it now
wind spade
then you need a train every one hour and 6 minutes 😄
fierce ruin
2 mk5*
wind spade
ah, then yes 😄
fierce ruin
brain laggy
wind spade
I'd suggest not going over 9 minutes to have some gap
fierce ruin
so i only have to look at the stack size and measure time of the train alright
wind spade
but that also depends on your production
if it's greater than 2x780
since with the loading delay, you will get a little less than 780/min from one belt
fierce ruin
yea it said smth like 25~s or so
gues i have to rebuild some stuff later on today with that new knowledge
wind spade
yeah, with the delay, you can get max around 747.5 items per minute for one belt
so you should never max belts that come out of train stations if they are 2x mk5
fierce ruin
well for me its the first type of this games still abit overwhelming sometimes 😄
learning by doing and alot of reading
wind spade
for your first save, it's good to just enjoy the game and not worry too much about efficiency
but a bit of learning is alwyas nice
fierce ruin
i wouldnt call it efficiency i just dont want my factory to run out of materials
wind spade
yeah, that's always good
fluid gale
how to go from 2 lines to 18 smelters?
robust vessel
always manifold
fluid gale
each splitter
dim thicket
Actually, since you have two lines, split it into two manifolds
robust vessel
put a splitter in front of the input to each smelter
dim thicket
You could
robust vessel
then chain them together
robust vessel
1 line going into two, 9-smelter groups
robust vessel
unless there's a reason to stagger them like that, just line 'em all up
fluid gale
not enough space
robust vessel
hm then I guess you could stack the input lines?
and just place the splitters on the belts after you run them
dim thicket
Indeed, sounds like you need more than one floor, or more than one line
glacial hemlock
If you work out the meth, staggered design always take more space than in-line design.
gleaming patio
Anyone know how much compacted coal per minute a coal gen consumes at 100% output?
robust vessel
@gleaming patio wiki says 12s burn time, so 5/m
gleaming patio
Oh. Sorry, I didn't think the wiki would have that info since it didn't have rates for nuclear fuel rod consumption
robust vessel
how dare you 😆
wind spade
https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/power always has that info xD
glacial hemlock
@gleaming patio if that is the case, i will go and review the page
It has. At infopanel, stated burn time is 5mins
I just added it into the text anyway.
wind spade
fyi burn time has almost no value for most people, since you are looking for consumption per minute
glacial hemlock
That would be leave to the players as a homework.
calm bison
So, did anyone ever do the math how much nuclear waste one would have to produce to cover the entire map in storage?
fierce ruin
🤦
wind spade
like 5000 people already here
empty hemlock
thousands and thousands of hours
calm bison
Well, obviously. I'd do it myself, as soon as I find out how high the death zone is.
wind spade
considering that there is almost no limit to build upwards, I'd say infinite amount of time
fierce ruin
about half way down
calm bison
Alright, then. Keep your secrets.
fierce ruin
Spawning the map with an insane amount of waste from a mod would be way quicker
But I don't see the point
eternal slate
where are you going? 🤔
fierce ruin
was testing a theory, hit the skybox instead
eternal slate
calculate terminal velocity?
fierce ruin
trying to see the top of the space elevator
eternal slate
there is something wrong if you already hit space junk
fierce ruin
no that is correct, where can you go? the game world is only so big
wind spade
@calm bison secrets?
calm bison
The secret of how much time it would take.
calm bison
I mean, probably not. At some point, computer maths is going to kick in.
If, for example, the x, y and z coordinates are implemented as double, you'd be looped back around as soon as you hit 1.79769313486232 *10^308 m distance from the origin point.
But I meant, the space enclosed by the zones of death.
wind spade
I don't think that if you go up you hit a zone of death
sand garnet
thereis a damage barrier
fierce ruin
look at my pic greeny thats insta death as soon as you hit it
sand garnet
I think you can go through it if you have enough speed tho
fierce ruin
damn high
wind spade
let's assume 10km, does that seem right?
fierce ruin
would not surprise me, as for the edges to the sides, it's much smaller
calm bison
And not shaped like a square.
wind spade
edges are 5.4x5.4, right?
or at least that's how big the map is according to the devs
misty owl
Well there is a limit. I jumped on the "upgrade spacecraft". I did not survive 😄
calm bison
Remember you can't breathe in space. So next time, pack a snorkel.
eternal slate
maybe you can filter out the void with good enough filter
wind spade
assuming available building space is 5.4x5.4x10km, we can fit 729M industrial storage containers, each one having 24000 waste in it, resulting in 1.75e+13 nuclear waste. Single reactor running at 100% would fill it in 6,657,534 years
is that good enough for you @calm bison
calm bison
That is satisfac sufficient.
frigid wolf
Hi Guys, a Meta question, what would be the tips to create the largest possible base or bases that would have zero lag?
wind spade
you basically asked "how to be rich without money". The bigger the base, the bigger the lag, no matter what you do
sand garnet
those 2 things are mutually exclusive
calm bison
500GB RAM, 6.5THz Octacore CPU
sand garnet
I dont come in this channel because i suck at math, but even I know the answer to that question lol
wind spade
Octacore = 7 useless cores
frigid wolf
@wind spade Are you saying the game is not written for a multithreaded system
?
calm bison
Oh, yeah, and better multithreading
frigid wolf
That explains A LOT!
@calm bison , There is a slider that allows you to control how many threads you want to use.
wind spade
well there are some things that you can calculate in paralel
I'd send you to the FFF blogs for that
calm bison
I've already read them.
wind spade
then you know 😉
frigid wolf
@wind spade A link would be great Thanks!
wind spade
calm bison
calm bison
Literally googled "factorio multithreading".
wind spade
I think they covered the issue in a few others as well
but yeah, this one is the basic one
calm bison
Post that in #streams-and-videos , that's what it's for.
glacial hemlock
I have an ambitious idea of automating some turbo motor. But, where should I start from? hmm...
Maybe I should begin by building some foundations? 
calm bison
Did you draw that graph yourself?
wind spade
no, it's from my tool
calm bison
Huh. Must be using a different tool then.
fierce ruin
https://puu.sh/DY9T1.png how would this table work with MK3 miners overclocked?
glacial hemlock
Mk3 overclocked, just refer to 1xmk5, stack 100, which is 4min6sec
Your train probably won't make a round trip within this time so consider using 2 cargo cars to transport a single mk5 belt.
fierce ruin
so complicated s.s
glacial hemlock
Lol, here is #math-and-meta
glacial hemlock
Mk2 miner can refer to 1xmk4 or even 1xmk5 depending on purity
If it is pure, then always use mk5
fierce ruin
but i mean if u use a Mk3 miner with 150% overclocked how would that work ?
glacial hemlock
360? Then mk4 belt
fierce ruin
so i dont realy need mk5 belts out of the platform?
unkempt glacier
whats the maximum reach of a track? looks like 14 foundations?
swift pond
alright, so i gotta manage to split 4 iron resource nodes into assemblers
not assemblers
foundrys
fierce ruin
@chilly kite wrong channel please post in #streams-and-videos
wind spade
that's the second time he's done that
summer field
@chilly kite If you're not actually playing Satisfactory, then I don't think you should be posting links to your stream. Also, what they said. This channel isn't even for that, which I assume you know since you posted it properly in #streams-and-videos (yet you're playing Apex currently...)
sullen cloud
It’s THE popular math and meta channel, thousands of Apex interested ppl around 
glacial hemlock
@unkempt glacier
12.5 foundations. 100meter
dense iron
Math check... max belt is 900 items per second? If my smelter is maxed at 75/min, 12 smelters would consume the belt?
fallow lily
Your math is correct, though.
swift grove
So, I've just done some maths and worked out my production divvy:
Planning on expanding out to a pure bauxite node in pink forest, and 2 normal quartz nodes around the base of the cliff.
OC'd MKII miners should give me 600/min of each, which means that, splitting bits off at certain points to my warehouse, my end product for personal use should be:
50 Alclad/min
2.5 Crystal Oscillator/min
1.5 Radio control units/min
1.5 Turbo Motor/min
12.5 heat sink/min
With all the obviously excess numbers being used to produce eachother and an end product of turbomotor
fierce ruin
Are you using the alts?
swift grove
The only alt is for the heatsync
Which I haven't even found yet, but without it I'll actually get bottlenecked by alclad and then heatsync at the end
It also relies on an output from the bauxite miner being a MKV conveyor
Now the question, is do I convey this shit all the way back to my HUB in the SW, or set up a train line
unkempt glacier
how far you have to move stuff?
swift grove
From Pink forest or there abouts, top of the cliff
Down to SW corner/spawn area.
I've got foundations already build above ground as framework for a railway up to the waterfall. tracks/power aren't down yet. Don't think I have enough Power output yet either but I might be able to swing it.
glacial hemlock
@swift grove use the alts. It can boost a lot of your aluminum chain.
There are 39 alts out there. Get'em all
I wanna be the very best, to catch all.....
swift grove
Yeah, I went on a bout the other day and got 4 more hard drives, but I keep getting the shit alts
glacial hemlock
If you play single player, you could just reload save until you get better alts. But somehow the available alts also depends on your current completed milestones and other alts
swift grove
What's the maximum amount of concrete production/min you could envision being necessary both now and in the near future
fierce ruin
10 tbh
white jewel
you will get limestone from the very begining storage is more help then X number of mines... you will have plenty of time
swift grove
What, 10/min?
I mean like, storage is one thing, but maximising output on a continuous basis is the goal here
white jewel
how many HMF are you planing?
fierce ruin
yeah unless your going through 1000 per minute you don't need more then that, bear in mind this does not include production only storing
swift grove
At this stage, still 5/min
atm I'm outputting 450/min
based on the quality of my modes
I'm just working out if I do plan to output up to 1000/min for future production
white jewel
you need 1 pure mk3 for HMF... one other for other purposes and no stres
swift grove
DO note, this is the soviet union we're talking about now, and concrete is our main resource 😂
Yeah I have no pures, so basically 600/min from other sources+ funcrete for the warehouse
I'm sorry, I'm coining a lot of phrases for no reason
white jewel
its fun... go for it
swift grove
Are HMF used as a basis for production capability?
white jewel
they are good measure of your factory... and they eat a load of concrete
frigid gorge
Did anyone count how much turbo fuel/m needs for 1 generator?
wind spade
frigid gorge
Oh, thx! I didn't thinked that it was updated
wind spade
turbofuel is in game several months lol
glacial hemlock
13.3333 seconds, divide this from 60
@swift grove it is measured in turbomotor / min.
willow igloo
I'm trying a bus build, based on the idea that every time I get a new tier of conveyor belt, I can keep the belt counts the same and simply expand each production line to reflect the new belt throughput, makes it handy when I can just calculate in number of belts needed. Is it just me or would Screws be inefficient to put on a bus, or if I do should I just have a ton of belts for it? Seems like most production lines eat a ton of screws
willow igloo
Ah, I haven't found any of those. I know they're supposed to be around if I explore
wind spade
yeah and they also can cut down your consumption to around 50%
if you don't use the few bad ones, then you pretty much save with each alternate recipe
willow igloo
Not final, but basic format of my bus
wind spade
also, most of the time it's just better to bring ingots and make stuff onsite
especially with wires
willow igloo
I tested and found out that vertical conveyors can give me 24 belts per stack to access, so my thought was that I can have bus lanes as tall as I need and I can extend my factory perpendicular to the base, maybe several stories if I need to
The question I'm now facing is whether I should put screws on the bus or if I should make screws next door to whatever process will need them, producing locally
Last night I tore up my base and decided to build it again from scratch. Took about 20 personal storage chests to fit it all til I could burn through it this morning rebuilding
wind spade
well if you don't want to get rid of screws yet, then I'd say produce them locally, same as wire
modest linden
Screws are crap, get rid of them. It is worth searching harddrives until you get stitched plates at very least.
wind spade
there are at least 20 useful alternate recipes
modest linden
Is there a list of which ones are useful or not?
wind spade
which lower your production costs
willow igloo
where are they at though?
wind spade
@modest linden well, it's a bit subjective on which ones are useful
modest linden
That is true, but some are for sure NOT, also maybe we could show the "trade off" in the chart
wind spade
since if they change cost to a different item, it may suit some people, but others may not have enough of that resource
willow igloo
I mean, you guys talk about alternate recipes like everyone should've found them already
wind spade
@modest linden for that I made the alternate recipe analyzer tool, that shows you the advantage you can get from given set of recipes 😉
modest linden
you should be searching out the alt recipes, from pretty early game.
wind spade
@willow igloo they are in the crashed pods scattered around the map. You need to open them using power or items (every pod is different). You can get their locations on some online maps or just search for them
modest linden
there are several that are openable with just power, hook up a power line and pop that thing open
others are like 2 rods and easy crap like that. It is really not something that people should avoid. Stitched plates saves you so much fricken effort it is crazy.
wind spade
not just effort. If you combine Stitched plates + Iron wire, you save 50% of iron
willow igloo
so I take it that everytime I find a better recipe I need to just rebuild my factory again, lol
wind spade
so you can make 2x more reinforced plates with the same amount of iron
not exactly. what you want to do is find the recipes first and then build your big factory 😉
willow igloo
What do you use iron wire for?
willow igloo
oh! so copper and iron wire are the same item for recipes?
modest linden
you will find the number of buildings you have to make in the production lines go way down with some alts, which makes it much easier to build and scale.
wind spade
yeah, the recipe is just named "iron wire", but produces "wire" item
for example if you are making HMFs with alternate recipes, you can get down to around 20% of original cost, so making 5x more HMFs from the same resources
so yeah, it's worth 😉
willow igloo
well damn, there goes my hard work on a bus
modest linden
It is ok, you can still use your bus, it will just be more efficient.
I had a bus in my first run through, in my second one I have built individual factories, spread around and bring it to a central location. I have found it easier with building separate self contained factories, especially when I wanted to "grow" a factory to be bigger.
wind spade
^
willow igloo
I thought about that, I thought about building a design that brings raw on one side, finished advanced product on the other, the entire layout fitting on a single floor with enough machines to keep one final product machine stocked. Then as I need more of that item, I just copy that design for as many floors as I need
wind spade
yeah, that's the best approach
modest linden
actually typically if you use a manifold you can just keep adding to the end of the lines
wind spade
stackable modules making 1 final item
modest linden
I started designing them to have "legs" that I can grow as I need more
wind spade
best way to do stuff
modest linden
I even have some that are "stacked" so each floor is a copy of the one below.
willow igloo
modular bases was my approach in Factorio, but I haven't heard of manifolds
modest linden
manifold is just a splitter per consumer with it chained together
willow igloo
oh, yeah
I do that already because of space efficiency, it'll fill and overflow over time
but yeah I think I will do the modular design next run, what is the best way to feed raw to those factories, my instinct is to have a bus of raw material feeding between all the modular factories
modest linden
I put some refining on spot near the mines, then ship in that to the spots I need it.
Even if I put refining in the factory, it is always split into a separate leg
willow igloo
sounds good. Gonna start a new save
I spent too many hours dismantling my old base, building the one I have now, and I'd hate spending the time demolishing it a 2nd time, would rather just start on a good foot
modest linden
grab those harddrives early on, and build it the right way the first time 😉
willow igloo
one map I'm looking at shows what items are needed to get a hard drive, but doesn't say what the hard drive is. Is it random when you find them?
wind spade
it gives you 3 random recipes and you can choose 1
or you can save and load the game and it gives you 3 new random recipes
some think of this as abuse, but some use it to get the recipe they want
willow igloo
neat, thanks
modest linden
I find it more fun to just go grab another hard-drive, unless it gives you 3 stupid ones. There are some pretty stupid alts.
wind spade
there are a few more
both alt screws, alt beacon, alt motors, rubber cable, caterium wire
fierce ruin
aaahhh you propably refering to those wood coal etc
screws suxx yes
rest is usefull
ok - rubber cable suxx
wind spade
caterium wire is useless, since we have iron wire and caterium is needed for electronics
fierce ruin
yes, but it still replaces resource, sometimes you may want to switch usage from one res to another
iron thicket
@wind spade you can save and reload to get new recpies?!
wind spade
alt beacon just adds coal and quartz (and most likely caterium and oil) for no reason for item that you don't produce in larger quantities
wind spade
I'd rather burn iron and copper for beacons, not oil, caterium and quartz
alt motors add oil to motor production, which you don't want to do, since oil is a bottleneck now
@iron thicket yes you can
fierce ruin
and it fits later for turbo motors
wind spade
how does it "fit" exactly? You don't care how you make motors for turbo motors
fierce ruin
and almost always they cut cost