#math-and-meta | Satisfactory | Page 414

velvet basalt Jun 27, 2019, 11:36 PM

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Who designed the rotor recipe?

wind spade Jun 27, 2019, 11:54 PM

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it's good

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well, the alternate is good

velvet basalt Jun 28, 2019, 12:00 AM

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whats the alternate?

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cause i cant handle 132 screws

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 12:02 AM

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yeah, screw screws

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📎 unknown.png

velvet basalt Jun 28, 2019, 12:05 AM

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thats not bad?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 12:09 AM

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yeah, it takes steel instead of iron

velvet basalt Jun 28, 2019, 12:09 AM

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how do you split that evenly?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 12:10 AM

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but it has two big advantages:

it uses the same resources as stators do, so production lines for motors get super easy to build
it can make use of steel alt and iron wire alt to be super efficient

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and for the splitting - just use manifolds 😄

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---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 12:10 AM

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A lot of recipes have ugly numbers, especially those involving wire.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 12:10 AM

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being a splitter, - is a belt

velvet basalt Jun 28, 2019, 12:11 AM

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cant have perfection

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 12:11 AM

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you can, but the cost is so big, that you don't really want to have perfection

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also, manifolds are perfect ❤

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 12:15 AM

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@velvet basalt wires and screws are meant to strain your logistic system. You have to deal with it. The simplest solution is get mk3 belt.

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The 2nd simplest way is to underclock whatever excess.

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 12:17 AM

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Or design a production line that uses double belts of screws.

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 12:18 AM

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Not Possible. No machines can output double belt. The input side is not an issue though....

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 12:20 AM

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Simplest solution is screw screws

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 12:20 AM

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I mean bus two belts of screws.

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Well you atill need to do it for wire as well.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 12:21 AM

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Wires are gnerally needed in lower quantities

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You can make it from copper also

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 12:25 AM

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I had to when making crystal oscillators for 45 quartz computer. 180 reinforced iron plates needs 1800 wire.

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I didn't feel like introducing oil or caterium for the alt.

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So I had to design a manifold that used 4 wire belts. I stacked assemblers at 12 with three belts going down the middle.

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 12:47 AM

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📎 HighResScreenshot20190627-204647.png

tough shale Jun 28, 2019, 1:03 AM

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How would I setup the constructors

📎 unknown.png

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I could but merge them and manifold but that be to much on a mk3 conveyor

dim thicket Jun 28, 2019, 1:15 AM

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You can't possibly pull more than your highest belt size from a single pure node

tough shale Jun 28, 2019, 1:17 AM

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Nvm figure it out

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Slugs .-. and pure nodes

tame trench Jun 28, 2019, 2:02 AM

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anybody made a layout design for 1 terawatt of power yet ?

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:42 AM

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400 nucleur plants?

sand venture Jun 28, 2019, 3:43 AM

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Needs nuclear fuel every 0.75 seconds

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Dear god

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 5:37 AM

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https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/calculator?preview=izFBlEw53g

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

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You need lots of production. But good thing is, alts help a lot

mystic coral Jun 28, 2019, 6:44 AM

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Is it available only with two nodes?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 6:44 AM

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3 nodes

mystic coral Jun 28, 2019, 6:45 AM

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Uraniun?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 6:45 AM

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Y

mystic coral Jun 28, 2019, 6:47 AM

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I haven't checked it. Are there two uranium nodes on west side? The other is in cave at center.

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 7:55 AM

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There are 3 uranium nodes long time ago. Not sure what is the latest qty.

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 7:57 AM

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3

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 9:21 AM

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long time agoII think it used to be 2 nodes for stable EA, it's just upped to 3 since the experimental release. one is western of the cave area pretty central in the western part of the red forest and the other node is eastern of the cave at the edge from red forest to swamp area @mystic coral

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:29 AM

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1 Nuclear Fuel Rod a minute, is enough for 2.5 Power Plants?

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 9:31 AM

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5

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unless they changed it?

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:32 AM

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Just checked, that was with 250%, apparently

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:34 AM

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yeah

📎 unknown.png

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:40 AM

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So 2.5 at 250%, can be made into 2 at 250% and 1 at 100%?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:41 AM

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you will still get the same amount of MW

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:42 AM

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Yeah, but 0.5 generator, will probably not work 100% of the time (50% idle time)

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:43 AM

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you should not overclock generators anyway

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:46 AM

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I was looking at what it would take to make full use of the 1800 uranium on the map. 420 nuclear power plants, is not a small amount of space. Hence why seeing what overclock that do instead

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:46 AM

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it's a waste of shards

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we have nearly infinite space

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also, 420 generators provide 1010 GW

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even with using all the mats on the map, you probably won't go over 400 GW

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unless you fill your base with jumppads or something

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:48 AM

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Not with current power draw, no. But we have more tiers on the way

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 9:48 AM

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or trains

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:48 AM

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Also, going full nuclear, means more oil and coal, for other productions

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 9:48 AM

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I am going full nuclear

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:48 AM

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yeah, but you don't have to usee all nodes

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you are probably fine with one overclocked node

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140 gens

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 9:49 AM

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I have seen I only need 1 node for 20 Generators

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:49 AM

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that's without alternate recipes probably

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 9:50 AM

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I chose alts for the rod production

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:50 AM

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Yeah, without alts, so is there just enough uranium for 16 rods a minute. With alts, 84 rods a minute

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:51 AM

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also, alts decrease the power needed to produce the rods

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:52 AM

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Is 600 the max ore, from an mk3 miner on normal?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:52 AM

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and increase the general efficiency of nuclear rods to be better than coal

📎 unknown.png

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yeah, 600 is max

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:53 AM

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Because apperently, the calculator allows 621.4 from 1.0 mk3 miner on normal

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:53 AM

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I'd say that's like 1.048xxx

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and it's just rounded value

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try increaseing the precision of numbers in settings

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or use consumption tool with exact input

cedar mica Jun 28, 2019, 9:54 AM

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Thats better: 1.03571 x Miner MK3

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:54 AM

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yeah, just as I thought

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if you are looking to produce stuff from limited amount of resources, consumption tool is generally better

zealous zephyr Jun 28, 2019, 9:58 AM

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hey greeny i feel like you live in this channel

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:59 AM

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I do

crude girder Jun 28, 2019, 11:01 AM

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That's what happens when you're both dev and tech support

hexed adder Jun 28, 2019, 11:49 AM

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blah, these alternate reinforced plates are messing up my ratios

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 11:56 AM

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big mess. wondering where to place train station

📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

hexed adder Jun 28, 2019, 11:57 AM

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what site are you using for those?

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also why aren't you exploiting the 3rd iron node in the middle there

white jewel Jun 28, 2019, 11:59 AM

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hello math people 😛 what will get me further, full tank of turbofuel or full stack of batteries?

elfin pond Jun 28, 2019, 12:03 PM

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depends if a stack of batteries has more energy than a stack of turbofuel

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 12:03 PM

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Turbofuel if I recall

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Batteries might be better than regular fuel?

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Haven't checked lately

elfin pond Jun 28, 2019, 12:04 PM

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wiki says they are likely to be

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@hexed adder https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#2;50000;0|gameLayer|

Satisfactory - Calculator

Satisfactory helper to calculate your production needs.

white jewel Jun 28, 2019, 12:05 PM

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i suppose they are better, they are higher tier... thanks for info

hexed adder Jun 28, 2019, 12:11 PM

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is it better to over-dimension stuff (12 smelters for 300 ore/min) or juggle splitters a lot to get perfect efficiency (10 smelters)

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can't see a good way to split 300 ore into perfect 30/min feeds

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hm, if I split a 300 feed into one lv2 belt and one lv3 belt, will the lv3 one get a consistent 180 rate since the lv2 only takes 120?

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 12:18 PM

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Perfect splits (balancers) are overrated

glad shard Jun 28, 2019, 12:19 PM

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manifolds > balancers

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 12:20 PM

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Literally just make two rows of five machines and run splitters down the middle. Easy to build, will balance itself over time.

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It's actually worse to build too many machines. They'll starve no matter what.

hexed adder Jun 28, 2019, 12:21 PM

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but is starving an issue

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 12:21 PM

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Yes, the machines run at lower efficiency forever.

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Uses less power to have the right number of machines.

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And less resources to build

hexed adder Jun 28, 2019, 12:22 PM

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I'm more concerned with the final parts of the chain having full efficiency rather than the earlier parts

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 12:23 PM

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They will over time as long as there's sufficient supply

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They'll never be saturated but as earlier machines saturate they will eventually get theirs

fluid ether Jun 28, 2019, 12:24 PM

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selfregulation ftw

hexed adder Jun 28, 2019, 12:26 PM

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but huh, manifolds

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never would have thought of such a simple solution myself

fluid ether Jun 28, 2019, 12:28 PM

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but isn't that manifolds?

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 12:31 PM

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Yes

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I described a manifold

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 12:35 PM

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so the train station is unidirectional, can the train turn around or do i need to loop?

sleek zinc Jun 28, 2019, 12:36 PM

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The earlier parts cant "eat" more than 30/min. So the final are going to fill up after a few mins.
Lower efficiency is only a few minutes long

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 12:48 PM

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ok loop it is then

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 1:19 PM

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oh wow there's a switch too

royal cloak Jun 28, 2019, 1:53 PM

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splitting evenly into 5 equal outputs is a real headache

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I try to use balancers as much as I can, but not for outputs of 5, screw that

patent bough Jun 28, 2019, 2:12 PM

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Yeah if it's a number whose only prime factors are 2 or 3 it's easy

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Because it's easy to split inputs by 2 or 3

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Otherwise you have to do some shenanigans

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Oh I heard they made it so if you have two engines on either end of a train facing opposite directions you can program a train that will go back and forth?

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But loops would be easier

dim thicket Jun 28, 2019, 2:20 PM

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It's never best to balance imo. Manifold everything. Multiple belts of material? Each gets its own branch.

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 2:30 PM

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but then, things need to be at a certain order, i suppose

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 2:38 PM

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biggest issue with having too many smelters/production machines on too little resources/components, is the swings in power when you first turn them on (belts would still fill them up a few items after a surge), and you'll have more variance (swinging highs and lows) in power usage. Stand bying the last few is one way around those issues. as for materials you'll fill the idle machines eventually, so raw materials are fine, higher tier components that you make at less than a dozen per minute you'll run into shortage issues.

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you could also underclock all the machines, 20 machines going at 50% use less power than 10 going 100% for same throughput.

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 2:49 PM

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MAYBE a skybridge for the train wasn't the brightest idea...

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 2:52 PM

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@shy mason at this point power is probably less of an concern than CPU cycles

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@royal cloak here is an easy 1 to 5 balancer that work with saturated input if you truly need it

📎 IMG_20190628_165427.jpg

little anchor Jun 28, 2019, 2:57 PM

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@pseudo jay or you can use a trimmed down version

📎 1553749700.png

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 2:58 PM

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That one doesn't work with saturated input

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The belt from merger to splitter needs to carry 120% of the input belt

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:00 PM

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I'm planning for a restart once trains get to stable version, so power usage is still on back burner of my mind atm, less oil generators and more nuc this time with trains encircling the island.

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:01 PM

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With nuclear you'll be hard-pressed to use all that power

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:02 PM

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At least until hadron colliders and teleporters come in.

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now I'm thinking of having trains on ground floor of all future factories for receiving and organization, so I'm not going to tear down my current turbo motor 5 floor factory(that turned into a mess recently for the motors) and just restart instead.

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It'll still take a while to get hundreds of nuc plants, but the 2.5 GW each will help with my idea of train colonies, and power being carried over rails makes it even better.

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:04 PM

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Btw: how many new alt recipes does the end of June update bring?

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:05 PM

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experimental got 6 new recipes for new items, wire heat sinks, radios, turbo motors, fuel rods, U cells, and control stators. Still no alts on super computer yet.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:06 PM

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I really do hope we will se some smart logics at some point where we could set splitters to close the gate if one connected specific container runs full. and more things to actually to do, I really loved the if then functions that you could implement there.

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uff, gimme a sec asd5a

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there will be at least one normal blueprint for quartz and I think silica which have been only alternate before if I remember correctly

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:07 PM

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So they can still add over 30 alt recipes before we run out of harddrives

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:07 PM

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yeah, splitter -> (smart splitter + merger) is my go to plan for now for the mass smart splitter organization system to avoid lock ups.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:07 PM

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and for the new ones I need to look up on my sheet

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I counted 8 fresh alternate BP's with the update

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:08 PM

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what's the two I'm missing?

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unless you're counting silicia

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:09 PM

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dunno if I missed one, if you wanna cross check use the sheet https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a8ueOah9-87HHFT25ztRwOZaSdlMeHQy/view

Google Docs

satisfactory screw it.xlsx

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not counting silica

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fml

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I think you might be right. I'm kinda tired and how ever counted the normal super computer BP as alternate fresh one

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:10 PM

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I've got no clue what two it is, even looking at the sheet.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:11 PM

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yeah I am counting 6 as well. As mentioned, I probably counted older BP's in the list as well, I need to take a nap

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:12 PM

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nap sounds awesome atm, though it's still 11 am here

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:12 PM

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Ty

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:12 PM

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I think they also added some more crash pods in the middle regions as well.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:12 PM

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I wanted to nap at 12 but business meeting didn't let me. now it's 5pm and I am not sure if it's wise to nap now^^

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:13 PM

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yeah holding out for dinner and early night slumber may be best

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:13 PM

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What's the screw it index?

tame trench Jun 28, 2019, 3:13 PM

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No time for a nap you have to keep building 😆

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:13 PM

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I can link you my reddit post about that @pseudo jay there is exactly detailed what this is

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it would me maybe take too much time right now

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https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/c29sru/reworked_screw_it_blueprint_comparison_chart/

r/SatisfactoryGame - (reworked) "Screw It" Blueprint Comparison Ch...

8 votes and 5 comments so far on Reddit

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:14 PM

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the speadsheet's name is for how to avoid screws in general that in general just fill up /max out all conveyor belt systems they are a part of.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:14 PM

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just produce them where they are needed. Don't build screws for mainbus production

fluid ether Jun 28, 2019, 3:14 PM

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consider producing screws on demand

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:15 PM

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same for cable

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:15 PM

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now my issue is plastic that I still have to bust out for super computers after replacing them all with rubber

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:15 PM

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wire/

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if that is an issue you can always change the refinery to rubber as well

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:17 PM

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Ah, in the spreadsheet it is a value representing ressource cost also regarding rarity of each ressource

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:17 PM

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it's an issue as I refine the rubber and plastic from crude oil at the pump (north coast) then load it into a truck to take to the cpu factory, plastic is filling the truck route I set for it and would have to weave the two routes together if I wanted to change the refineries.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:17 PM

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yes, it does. It relies on overall resource rarity with also taking purity into account

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:18 PM

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If i try to use smart splitters, the plastic / rubber imbalance eventually locks production down.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:18 PM

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on the second site of the sheet you will see the resource cooeficients more detailed

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nvm that wasn't a question. But yes, that's what it is, just giving some sort of logical comparable value to the blueprints

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:19 PM

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anyway, trains will help with that, as well as foresight to just dedicate an impure oil node to plastic as well.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:21 PM

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yeah, indeed. Smart sorters with logic funtions could solve such issues easily how ever, then you could smart split items from belts without caring for overflow stops

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:21 PM

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the only non alt recipe I may stick with is possible crystal oscillators and beacons. alt for everything ftw.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:21 PM

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plastic

fluid ether Jun 28, 2019, 3:21 PM

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i think smart mergers should be a thing

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:22 PM

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plastic alternate is one of the most useless recipes

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more refineries and more crude oil

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I'd like to see splitters/mergers reacting to set conditions, like a full container @fluid ether

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:23 PM

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I'll play around more with trains, industrial containers and smart splitters, at some point I'll be happy with a system then start building the mega factories I can stick with for future updates.

fluid ether Jun 28, 2019, 3:24 PM

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you would need wiring for that,too. I would like that

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:24 PM

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I consider plastic to be obviuosly excluded, same as screws, as you eventually don't need it.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:24 PM

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indeed

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:26 PM

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still using rods for building materials, and may have a container of plastic / screws for building equipment at main hub, but saving trains/main bus for rubber / steel pipes / some form of quartz / and quickwire to make everything else from.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:26 PM

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yeah. I mean you still will need plastic for super computers and stuff, like you can't live without that completely tho

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:27 PM

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The planned location for super computer / turbo motors is sitting on a local node of oil, and importing additional rubber in, so 1-4 refineries of plastic should be fine.

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:28 PM

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@arctic nova a great start, but it ignores how many products need a certain ressource, i.e. Iron ore is vastly more used than copper ore

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:29 PM

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*ps talking about the west end of desert canyon below north oil coast if you are looking for it on the map, next to the four inland oil nodes.

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:29 PM

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But judging that gets iffy, it depends on planned production and chosen alt recipes

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:29 PM

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thank you @pseudo jay I do agree, but it's more like a guideline then actually saying "this is the best bp". It just says basically that if you would make wire from copper you could not build as much wire if you'd use the entire map then when using the alternate with iron for example.

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that way it stays comparable, there is basically no way to couple that to actual real demands

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:31 PM

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@pseudo jay only 28 spare left.

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:31 PM

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and the copper + iron ore to ingots can be useful in some places, but doesn't help if you are also using copper ingots for quickwire and aluminum. just be flexible enough when planning and it'll work out

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:31 PM

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Yeah

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:32 PM

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Considering all coppers first go to aluminium then go to caterium as well, you left none extra copper for alt irons.

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:32 PM

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Exactly, I am moving away from alt iron because aluminium

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:32 PM

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at some point you just need to start considering individual sites and how best to make with what you got and can import.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:32 PM

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I even tried to state that out as good as possible in the description of the sheet, yet I guess most random ppl that will see it will just look at the sheet and take it too serious.

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:33 PM

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Hopefully there will be alt aluminium ingots

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:33 PM

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yeah, I recently prepared my main bus productions to be ready for 1.200 for all my base materials....that was hell of a work

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:33 PM

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doubt it, there's no alt caterium ingots

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:33 PM

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I did also switch from alternate iron back to normal

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:33 PM

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Other then bayer i remember there is another common process for aluminium

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:33 PM

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unless they start using SAM or something

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:34 PM

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There is no alt caterium, as you already have alt quckwire.

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:34 PM

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they could have alternate buildings that have different recipes that have a higher electrical input.

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or mods could do that

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:34 PM

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Lovely

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:35 PM

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I do need to tear down my current ghetto base and expand my tower, eventually I want all higher tier production inside it

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The tower is 21 by 21 with 20 floors or so

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:36 PM

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my current bad boy resource refining facility^^

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📎 unknown.png

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:36 PM

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I need to better plan my tower conveyor walls, inside belts are fine for fitting rows of assemblers and manufactors on as few foundations, the outside belts feeding between floors are spaghetti.

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:37 PM

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@arctic nova you should paint a creeper face on the center wall

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:38 PM

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there's like one level where I have 160 smelters to process 1,200 iron, 1,200 copper and 1,200 caterium. and that thing currently has like 5 levels if I remember correct

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:38 PM

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I plan to expand to 27 by 27 and add an atrium where transport between floors happens

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:38 PM

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I actually plan on doing some mario pixel art at the long side of the building @glacial hemlock

glacial hemlock Jun 28, 2019, 3:38 PM

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I would make a train sprial elevator just to transport goods between floors

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:38 PM

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Smelters and foundries are banished from my tower

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:39 PM

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make it all black and call it the cube @pseudo jay that was actually also an idea I had in mind 😄

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:39 PM

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I'm restarting my game so I can add a train station and ind storage sorting on the ground level of future mega factory towers, 5 wall high for trains should be fine for sorting the storage.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:39 PM

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if any1 remembers that horror movie

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:39 PM

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That was a good one

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But for that to fit I'd need to reduce the amounts of floors drastically

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:40 PM

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well, this is resource refining there, before it was all on open platforms. Main production side is somewhere else

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I hate to have smelters in normal buildings.

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:40 PM

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used to have smelters and miners in my buildings, the hole in 2nd floor for top of miner didn't help at all. So belts + conv walls it'll be from now on.

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:42 PM

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📎 unknown.png

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:42 PM

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trump tower inc 😛

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that looks pretty awesome

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:43 PM

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That tower needs to be wider, because I am like 5 foundations away from a lod barrier

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:43 PM

#

it'll be a while, or more foundation and curved wall types, before we start to do anything besides square towers,

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

well, ppl allready use awesome circular buildings

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

If I am looking at the plateau with waterfilled craters the water doesn't render properly from the top of the tower. I need to fly 5 foundations closer for the higher detail to load and render

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

but it's super annoying and complicated to do

#

that's super unfortunate 😄 so will you at some point move the thing?

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

nothing you can do graphical settings wise?

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

No. But I will expand

#

Everything is already on ultra

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

nah, the different biomes have different loading/streaming zones. if you are at the edge from on to another you might have those issues

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

📎 Satisfactoryearlyaccess_2019.04.21_-_23.38.01.09.mp4

#

There is the video I made about that

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

makes sense, so take screen shots from center of the biome looking at the mess from now on.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

I am super lucky, I build on the edge from northern forrest to canyons and at least I have not experienced much texture issues there

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

It is super noticeable with water

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:48 PM

#

okay, I do have this when I look towards you into the desert as well

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:48 PM

#

that is an awesome spot, did that last time. Going to start on bottom right corner of map / grasslands next time to work on trains, as the space will help as I get familiar with track layouts.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:49 PM

#

how ever, there's not much to complain beside some trees that look like nuke-explosions (mainly because it's a desert with not much in it)

#

du you know that pure quartz node in the desert inside a cave?

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

I am exploiting that one

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

Just made a train station inside today that will get me the quartz^^

#

how?

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

was planning on trucking it out to gold coast a month back before aluminum

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

Belts

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

fml

#

I read the other definition of exploiting

#

I really should sleep

#

metro confirmed^^

📎 Screenshot20190628-16295000001.png

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

that cave quartz spot is a place of nightmares without a jetpack or explosive weapons, alpha spitters guarding it and back cave for nest of stingers.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

tbf...alpha spitters won't hit you if you just strafe around them. They need to improve on their AI

#

or basically every spider

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

oh, that one, was talking about the middle one under the center region

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

pretty north east of the map

#

west not east

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

wasn't planning anything for that corner after they moved the bauxite node, at least until they tell us what the SAM does .

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

South of it is a limestone node with is nice for on premise silica

unborn parrot Jun 28, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

ive got an idea

#

for my tw plant

#

ill build 3 factories off each uranium node

#

reducing travel lengths and stuff

#

then converging the nuclear waste to one central site

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

Why not go hard core mode and wall the spawn in with nuclear waste?

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

where you make the steel pipes and encased beams for the millions of ind storage you'll need

#

the bot hates me and my steel....

pseudo jay Jun 28, 2019, 3:59 PM

#

Regarding more shapes for buildings: you could use train tracks for curved decorations

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:02 PM

#

yeah, going to work on 3 station basements, with railway switches / lanes to each of them to then return to main lines, as the base and get that worked out before building any manufacturing foundation above.

#

It'll be a mess along with all the truck stations/routes going to and fro each miner / smelter site

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 4:03 PM

#

I guess you even can centralize it around the most central uranium node, the other 2 nodes are not that far away

#

I don't know how many other resources you need as well, so ofc I might be totally wrong on that^^

#

Satisfactory battle royal/survival? @shy mason 😄 interesting idea

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:05 PM

#

just have 2 radiation spokes / belts of all the uranium. as long as you have enough concrete, you don't need much else that can't be just belted in.

#

you just type my name into the search bar? that was months ago.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

I ment your idea of the nuclear waste around

#

oh fml

#

that was @pseudo jay

#

fuck it, my spelling and grammar is shitty right now, I can't count, I can't read the correct lines, I will have a nap now

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

oh, all good, I did have an idea of having two teams face/dual against each other to build quickest to space elevator tiers with separate tech trees, thought you were reffering to that.

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

still a great idea. Probably on custom map which might be better balanced and or 2 different games

#

anyways, I'm out, later o/

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

later

unborn parrot Jun 28, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

very messy but heres rough idea

📎 where_im_getting_mats.png

#

blue = train line

#

red = main base

#

yellow = poweer

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:09 PM

#

you'll need to export the aluminum/bauxite before it gets too rad infested, but would work.

unborn parrot Jun 28, 2019, 4:09 PM

#

green nuclear

#

purple = material gathering zones

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:10 PM

#

I need to start making maps of my ideas at some point.

unborn parrot Jun 28, 2019, 4:12 PM

#

@tacit bison have you got a nasa supercomputer my man

📎 what_the_hell.png

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:12 PM

#

my pc hurts loading that pic.

unborn parrot Jun 28, 2019, 4:13 PM

#

oh yeah mines fine loading that

#

puts down fire extinguisher

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 4:14 PM

#

if that is all the belts, can't be too bad, if that's 10% of all belts/ bus you have, yeah you need some liquid nitrogen overclocking.

#

at least until they start using more multi cpu core threads for the game, it's using close to 1.5 threads now.

#

but that's an optimized build problem, and not something you do with early access to test gameplay.

tacit bison Jun 28, 2019, 4:25 PM

#

It's the majority of the belts. Everything goes to and comes off of that bus. Currently 8 lanes wide, 7 high. Not much is optimal in regards to balancing, but that wasn't really the goal of the build. More to just have everything easily accessible. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't get framey sometimes when I've got it all in view

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 5:27 PM

#

wow i hate these train tracks a lot

#

but unless i build it on columns, it will block my oil supply, which will block my power

fluid berry Jun 28, 2019, 5:56 PM

#

can this be right? 0.075 turbofuel per fuel generator/second?

#

13.33s per circle

arctic nova Jun 28, 2019, 6:54 PM

#

who scales down to seconds? rather scale up to a full minute since you allways get the items/min ^^

#

@unborn parrot that screenshot looks like you are still dictated by a factorio mindset. Still looks great tho

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

Yeah, call me an ass, but just "paving" over large portions of the map to create a flat factory feels.... cheaty. That's just personal though, I know better then to tell people how to play the game 😉

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

for a while I could only build floating platforms if 1 edge of it was on a natural wall or supported by walls already there, so you're not the only one.

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

@hexed jungle well, it's what happens in the real world, so I'd call it realistic :)

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

Oh totally

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

I don't really enjoy these 2d bases with bus. We have 3d space to build and we can build nice factories, don't build like in factorio

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

I agree, though, that it's not the most beautiful way of building. which, sadly, also applies to real-world industry

#

@wind spade yes, those large bused feel strange in satisfactory, IMHO

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

I like building "single-concern" buildings in a large complex. I try to make it endlessly repeatable vertically, so I can just add new floors when I want to expand output

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

busses should not be in Satisfactory. They are not really valid here

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

@wind spade i like bus-like structures for getting raw materials from the mines to the factory complex

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

I make a floor for each stage of a process, like 1st floor for circuit boards, 2nd for crystals, 3rd for cpus, 4th for radios.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

people put everything on the bus

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

@shy mason same here

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

My friend always does that, and it has such a neat charm to it. Exploring his factories feels so much more organic

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

here's hoping the mark 2 constructors and assembliers stay the same size.

#

or I'm going to have to start over again....

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

I also try to make the outside of each building look a little different.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

I'm hoping they make them better than mk1

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

my buildings all start as squares until the spaghetti feed belts come in

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

like if mk1 assembler eats 4 MW and mk2 assembler would eat 20 MW and have x2 speed, then there would be almost no reason to use mk2s

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

I think that I'll nuke my entire factory except the mines and resource delivery busses as soon as the experimental hits ea

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

Would be nice if there was a bulk-deconstruct

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

yes

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

there is one

#

delete save file

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

I god damn KNEW IT

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

might delete everything, not worrying about drop chests, and then save editor away the crates.

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

nah, searching all the hard drives once was fun, doing it again would be painful

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

but tbh, bulk deconstruct mostly means you haven't planned your factory well, so it's kinda your fault 😄

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

yeah busting the chart and jetpack for that again.

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

I don't mind making a new save, but I have a habit of doing that with most games. Then I end up knowing the first 20% like the back of my hand, and only reach the end once or twice

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

(keep in mind the word mostly)

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

and I don't want to rebuild my slightly insane oil delivery bus that spans 3/4 of the map from east to west...

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

means bum rushing tier 6 to play the game though

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

I don't think anyone nukes a whole building without knowing they done fucked up

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

@wind spade my problem would be that my entire factory is laid out for belts that do 450 items/sec

#

erm minute

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

@shut arch well, manifolds make things easier

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:21 PM

#

I have lots of manifolds and balanced storage outputs, but the belt throughput has lots of consequences for things like the number of constructors on a floor.

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:21 PM

#

now they are going to go 480 without any change on your end. new max is 780, and that is going to make my floors huge.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

I mean, nothing really bothers you with that. If they decreased belt speed, sure, that's an issue. But they increased the speed, so you have no reason to rebuild the part that is working nicely

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

went from 15 smelters to 26 for the rows per maxed out miner. going to start doing the double manifolds for similar factory floor plans.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:23 PM

#

even if it's not using fastest belts

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:23 PM

#

but I really don't want to wine. deconstruction and rebuilding in satisfactory is quite fun, almost as with lego

#

the only complaint is that my RSI hates the click-hold-release action for deconstructing. 😭

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:24 PM

#

I remember seeing someone say they made a macro for it

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:25 PM

#

yeah, I'll also do that for the next big rebuild

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

Honestly, deconstructing the factory machines and belts isnt too much of an issue, but if you put a lot of effort building walls, it can definitely get real tedius to deconstruct everything

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

it's still sad that the game is such a tendon wrecker by default

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

took me a painful 2 weeks before I realized the sprint toggle was a thing

shut arch Jun 28, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

ouch

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

yeah, the "big rebuild" is something, that can easily be avoided if you plan for the future

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

Live and learn. Most of my mistakes are/were simply due to ignorance of the games systems

crude girder Jun 28, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

@shut arch if you have autohotkey I can send you my script

#

It does the left click holding on a loop

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

How long do you time it for?

crude girder Jun 28, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

It's exactly 1s

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

ahk. Good to know

crude girder Jun 28, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

Yep, or if you're epic you can just make a script for it yourself

#

I tried to make one for Autowalk and Handcrafting but it failed pretty spectacularly

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

handcrafting script = mobile phone on spacebar lol

#

anyway, handcrafting is shit 😄

barren elm Jun 28, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

Where's the "lazy bastard" achievement for satisfactory

crude girder Jun 28, 2019, 7:45 PM

#

Nvr

#

One that holds down E would be useful too to mine stuff early on

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 7:45 PM

#

I'm guessing the lazy acheivement is only make 100 items or less of each item by hand until space elevator "I win" button.

#

leaving 100 so you can make them by hand to make the assembler.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

@crude girder hold E, open inv, release E, close inventory

crude girder Jun 28, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

I know that one, but scripting

barren elm Jun 28, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Someone tell coffeestain to make everything "on click down" so we can automate the game about automation

crude girder Jun 28, 2019, 7:52 PM

#

There are a lot of QoL and stats I want in the game but will probably never exist for another year or so

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

I wish the space elevators required like 10x the materials to bump to the next tier. It seems just low enough that it's tempting to try and rush it by idling some hand crafting

sullen cloud Jun 28, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

There will be further balancing in the future. But be reminded that AAA titles have an average play time of 40-80 hours

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

True, I guess its a boon that it's so low while we're getting so many updates so quickly. It would be a huge pain to rush to end-game to try out new features on a new save

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

tier 6->7 requirements are pretty huge with 1K items that come out at 1-2 a minute per manufacture at full production,

hexed jungle Jun 28, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Ah, I still haven't really touched experimental/next update (If I'm getting my tiers right here)

shy mason Jun 28, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

you're right

vestal lava Jun 28, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

Trains have saved me

#

Anyone got any good numbers on trains?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 8:25 PM

#

trains > anything

#

no numbers needed 😄

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

if you mean slots it has 32

#

per car

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

Is ir more energy efficient to underclock for 7.5 as 7 whole 1 half or 8 @ 0.94

barren elm Jun 28, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

Bigger underclock = exponentially bigger power saving

#

So 7 + 1 at 50%

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 8:38 PM

#

Here comes Greeny!

#

The calculator site leads me to do the latter. That is why I ask.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 8:40 PM

#

smelters as example:
8 @ 94% = 29 MW
7 @ 100% + 1 @ 50% = 28 + 1.3 = 29.3 MW
around 1% difference

So I'd say pick your favorite and go with it

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

How about manufacturers? Difference might matter.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

calculator shows the latest, but it's mostly because of how it's coded internally, that it was easier to do. Also the other one can be easily calculated (8.42 machines = 8@100% + 1@42%), not like the other one

#

@stark lichen it will still be 1% no matter the base energy (at least I think. Let me verify that)

stark lichen Jun 28, 2019, 8:44 PM

#

Thanks. Although the half is less of a hassle to upgrade if you increase production by less than double.

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 8:45 PM

#

manufacturer:
8 @ 94% = 398.5 MW
7 @ 100% + 1 @ 50% = 385 + 18.1 = 403.1 MW
around 1.15%, so not a big difference

barren elm Jun 28, 2019, 8:55 PM

#

Wow, it's really better to underclock 8 by 6%, rather than 1 by 50%?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 8:55 PM

#

and it's even 2% more than needed

barren elm Jun 28, 2019, 8:56 PM

#

I mean off the top of my head I'm pretty sure underclocking 2x constructors to 75% is worse than having 2 but cutting one down to 50%?

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 8:56 PM

#

so it's even slightly more better

#

2x75% constructors = 5 MW
1x100% + 1x50% = 5.3 MW

#

@barren elm

barren elm Jun 28, 2019, 9:03 PM

#

Fair enough, good to know

jovial obsidian Jun 28, 2019, 9:07 PM

#

is there a chat or graph for clockspeed to power use

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:12 PM

#

@jovial obsidian hang on, I'll make one for ya in wolframalpha

jovial obsidian Jun 28, 2019, 9:12 PM

#

@wind spade thank you

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

@jovial obsidian https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=graph+y+%3D+4+*+(x%2F100)^1.6+for+x+from+1+to+250

Wolfram|Alpha: Making the world’s knowledge computable

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.

#

it's for a constructor, if you want anything else, replace the "4" in the query with the power consumption of the thing

jovial obsidian Jun 28, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

okay thank you, it really goes up there

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 10:02 PM

#

it's really terrible how the bird throbbs after you kill it

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 10:02 PM

#

Don't kill the bird

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

train loop complete.

📎 unknown.png

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

this channel is getting more and more offtopic

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

@tough fiber can you keep those posts out of this room as they are not #math-and-meta related

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

pple are abusing this channel for screenshots lol

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

but we already have a place for screenshots

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

i know

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

they even dropped the cool down period after I asked

wind spade Jun 28, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

it's still there

fierce ruin Jun 28, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

1 minute instead of 2 now

tough fiber Jun 28, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

lol sorry actually didn't notice where i was

#

(also when i talked about the bird lol)

wild spade Jun 28, 2019, 11:56 PM

#

the 24hrs in the streams and videos is a bit insane - need a separate one for videos - I personally don't care about people's streams and get the 24hr wait for posting those

barren elm Jun 29, 2019, 12:51 AM

#

Wrong channel?

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 12:54 AM

#

Yeah Wrong channel @wild spade that comes under #off-topic-general

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

How many fuel gens can you run off one pure oil node

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 2:36 AM

#

overclocked or normal?

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 2:36 AM

#

Normal

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 2:42 AM

#

I am incorrect its Pure oil at 240, 4 oil refineries, 12.5 generators giving 1875 MW

#

at 100% usage

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 2:53 AM

#

im at 5,900 on oil at 100% use

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 2:53 AM

#

1 node?

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 2:54 AM

#

2 nodes and im still growning the gentors, i can see if i can run it off 1 node

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 2:55 AM

#

100% consumption?

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 2:58 AM

#

📎 Satisfactory_6_28_2019_7_58_14_PM.png

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 3:00 AM

#

you only using 20% of the power available

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 3:02 AM

#

right now iam because i overloud on my supply chain so shut it off to impove the gens hense why i asked about powedr to clockspeed eailer

lucid nexus Jun 29, 2019, 3:10 AM

#

Does anyone know if there is a program or anything that helps map out the most efficient way to create items autonomously?

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 3:12 AM

#

@lucid nexus https://satisfactory.tash.fyi/ this might help

lucid nexus Jun 29, 2019, 3:12 AM

#

that is great, thanks

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 3:14 AM

#

your welcom

tame trench Jun 29, 2019, 3:57 AM

#

Alright thanks to @wind spade im almost done with the layout of my quarter of terawatt factory which im gonna have to make 4 of them 😂

📎 unknown.png

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 3:59 AM

#

wish i could read it lol

tame trench Jun 29, 2019, 3:59 AM

#

I cant even take screen capture of it 😅

jovial obsidian Jun 29, 2019, 4:00 AM

#

all is good, not even the PSC key?

tame trench Jun 29, 2019, 4:02 AM

#

i dont want to start a production line just to make pcs ill stick to those aha

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 4:14 AM

#

@tame trench What program website did u use to make that

#

or website*

tame trench Jun 29, 2019, 4:15 AM

#

made it on an excel sheet, took me long enough 😄

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 4:15 AM

#

your insane

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 4:15 AM

#

Youre a mad man

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 4:16 AM

#

Mad man is too light he is just insane

tame trench Jun 29, 2019, 4:16 AM

#

Indeeed

mint lagoon Jun 29, 2019, 4:50 AM

#

At what point do trains beat conveyor lines?

glacial hemlock Jun 29, 2019, 5:01 AM

#

In terms of throughput.

#

Rail is cheap too!

#

A 2-cargo train already beats a mk5 belt.

#

On a flat circuit i can pull 40 cargos from just 1 locomotive

neon pier Jun 29, 2019, 6:46 AM

#

I’m wondering what the best ratio will be. I’m building stations assuming a conservative 2:3...

#

I have hills...

mint lagoon Jun 29, 2019, 6:46 AM

#

is 800m is far enough to justify the huge buildings?

#

I have a sky base roughly 150 plates/ 3 conveyor lifts in the air.

#

How fast do trains travel?

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 6:51 AM

#

120kmh

mint lagoon Jun 29, 2019, 7:07 AM

#

@fierce ruin Thank you.

#

How big is a cargo hold?

#

NVM the wiki got updated.

frigid sluice Jun 29, 2019, 10:52 AM

#

So transport belts require 1 item per meter to build?

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 10:52 AM

#

yes

frigid sluice Jun 29, 2019, 10:54 AM

#

Oh no...

#

I will need about five thousand steel beams for my oil...

unborn parrot Jun 29, 2019, 10:54 AM

#

is there any floor planners for satisfactory out ther

#

e

frigid sluice Jun 29, 2019, 10:55 AM

#

I'm sure there is. I just have no idea where 😄

#

Pins may have some?

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 11:03 AM

#

#math-and-meta pins for production planners but as for the amount of foundations you will need that is up to you

#

@unborn parrot

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:05 AM

#

@frigid sluice 2 meters per item

upper crater Jun 29, 2019, 11:09 AM

#

how much beter in % is turbo fule?

frigid sluice Jun 29, 2019, 11:16 AM

#

Phew, only 2,5k beams

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:18 AM

#

@upper crater I just answered on Reddit to somebody, so I'll just copy it:

Leaves, Fabric: 15 MJ
Mycelia: 20 MJ
Wood: 100 MJ
Biomass: 120 MJ
Alien Carpace, Alien Organs: 250 MJ
Coal: 270 MJ
Biofuel: 300 MJ
Compacted Coal: 600 MJ
Fuel: 750 MJ
Battery: 1000 MJ
Turbofuel: 2000 MJ
Nuclear Fuel Rod: 750 GJ (750000 MJ)

upper crater Jun 29, 2019, 11:19 AM

#

thx

obtuse fable Jun 29, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

Is there a formula to keep production at 100% whilst using trucks/trains without overloading the belts/other infrastructure

#

I know I can use storage bins as a buffer if necessary but I want to keep everything moving

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

for trains: no, it won't work
for trucks: super hard, probably won't get it correct, since trucks are kinda random

obtuse fable Jun 29, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

That's a shame, I like using the transport options but after an indefinite time eventually the materials will get backed up

coarse bobcat Jun 29, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

I generally run a truck or two first while I'm getting production set up for something and then replace it with belts when I've got nothing else to do.

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:32 PM

#

Can someone demonstrate to me how you can load balance 3 MK3 miners producing 300 items/min to freight stations for trains? Each station has 2 inputs so it gets tricky when you try to get 1800 items/min into them

#

*600 items per min

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:33 PM

#

why do you need to load balance them? Just connect each miner to one platform

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:33 PM

#

I figure I’ll have to condense the belts at some point once they reach my production base though

#

Without priority mergers and splitters, it gets complicated having to dedicate a whole belt to one production line instead of using that same belt over multiple production lines (waterfall merging concept with a stacked bus)

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

what on earth are these terms, who comes with them lol

#

"waterfall merging concept" and "stacked bus"

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

Like if my production line only need 1000 items per min but I had 2 belts of 600, how would I be able to balance it efficiently and still have some left over to use down the line

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

I assume with the first one, you are talking about manifold

empty hemlock Jun 29, 2019, 2:36 PM

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you don't. if you supply 1200 items into a 1000 consumption chain you'll overflow with 200/minute. thats how consumption works

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

Yes, my machines use the manifold but I want to be able to still use leftover backup resources to other production lines

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

well after the last split, you are left with 200/min leftover

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

If I split it, it will only go 1:1 and not backup.

#

Where might I split off to use the excess if the splitters only split 1:1 and don’t fill up one side and then go to the other output once the other is full?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

just do it like this (ignore the numbers)

#

you will be left with 200/min at the end and you can use it for anything you like

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:38 PM

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Ah I see. Even though the splitters alternate where the item goes every other item, it will still be enough to cause a backlog and get that 200/min output?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

it works the same as a manifold

#

the last machine will fill and when that is done, rest of the resources continue to the next splitter

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

What I mean by priority splitting is once one output is backed up, it will then go to the other instead of trying to split it evenly and siphoning off resources from the other side. If you have priority splitters, you remove the time needed to fill the machines.

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

the time will still be there

hexed adder Jun 29, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

it would be cool if we could limit/disable the buffer on machines

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:42 PM

#

I suppose the streamer I had been watching didn’t know fully how manifolds could work. He would try splitting off a belt that supplied more than the manifold could handle, but the dilemma was that it kept splitting evenly so the manifold would never get backed up.

#

He would try “waterfalling” resources down from higher belts in the stack, but that too wouldn’t work since the mergers also evenly go 1:1

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:43 PM

#

yeah, that's not how to do it. If you have more than a manifold can handle, just use the other end of a manifold

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:44 PM

#

Thank you greeny. That basically just solved the existential crisis I was having in game. Also, do you have a list of the best combo of alt recipes without having to go calculate it on your site? I suppose someone has already worked out which recipes are the best.

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:44 PM

#

recipes aren't best or worst

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:46 PM

#

Now that trains are out, time and efficiency are almost zero-factors so based on what’s available on the map, the ratios of resources available would point to which recipes are going to work the best. (I.E. alt screws aren’t necessary, and alt computers aren’t as good as crystal or caterium)

#

Like screws would make the B team while the caterium/crystal computers would make the A team list. I know there’s a good combo out there that would be the most efficient for the existing nodes out there

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

yeah, basically it's about availability on the map. But also some people have different end goals, some want to make as much SCs as possible, some do HMFs or a mix between those two, etc. etc. So it's hard to say which one is good or bad. What I'd suggest is use the analyzer tool I have to figure out what suits you the best

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

Say for instance, I might save more resources doing crystal computers if I use all the alts for the production chain, compared to caterium. But in order to calculate all that I would need like 10 production lines to calculate which would make more sense

open plinth Jun 29, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

Oh hey which tool generates that little chart greeny?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/alternate-recipes

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

#

@open plinth that one?

#

like the green-red tables?

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

Thank you greeny. I also notice you’re very active on this channel and I appreciate the work you do here. Your calculator has been a tremendous help

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:50 PM

#

for example, 1 reinforced iron plates raw costs based on recipe combinations:

📎 unknown.png

#

you can also sort it by clicking on the ore icons or "total" text

open plinth Jun 29, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

This one

📎 unknown.png

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

Will there be a guide for train efficiencies soon? (Best loco to freight car ratio, etc.)

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

@open plinth that's a manifold fill tool https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

open plinth Jun 29, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

Ah the manifold fill time tool

#

Thanks 😄 It was cool

#

I liked the time till efficient display

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

@haughty quail trains are the topic of today's SSS, but I am still writing it, I hope it will be out in a few hours. For the efficiencies, put simply: if you are on a flat land, you shouldn't have issues with 1 loco for X freight cars (any normal number will do, unless you go crazy over 30). With hills and stuff, you shouldn't go over 20 cargos, safe bet is 1:5-1:10, but needs testing, since it depends on speed it starts with and length of the hill. But if you are able to stop&start the train on the biggest hill, then you are fine

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:54 PM

#

I see. The AI likes to take it easier on speeds than I do, and I’m sure there’s an equation it uses to calculate all that

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:55 PM

#

tbh we weren't able to figure anything out. 1:5 seems safe even for AI though

#

@open plinth yeah, it is used to estimate the time manifold will start working for 100%. I made it to counter all those pple that say "I don't want to wait hours until my manifold starts working, I'm gonna make balancer"

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:56 PM

#

If we can find what equation it uses, we could really crunch the numbers and figure out exactly how many locos you need based on the 3D path of the track that you could visualize with one of the save visualizers out there. I imagine the spline stores numbers on the slope and curve

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:56 PM

#

we may be lucky and devs will give us more info on that. But until that, I'd stick with 1:5

open plinth Jun 29, 2019, 2:56 PM

#

I usually just solved my impatience by letting the source fill up a container while I finish building the rest of the machines, and then I just manually fill them up to max 😛

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

It probably uses the same methods that the other vehicles use when climbing up hills. Like some gravity coefficient that amplifies over the slope. We could probably ask and they’d give it to us.

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

either that or let the manifold run while you build the next part

#

the next part will probably take you longer than the time manifold requires to fill

open plinth Jun 29, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

That too

#

But I like building in buffers

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 2:59 PM

#

I kinda hate buffers

#

they hide the problems your factory has

#

well, rather postpone them to later

open plinth Jun 29, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

Maybe, I'm hopeful that maybe one day we'll get something like Factorio's combinator system and alert poles, so I can detect if a container drops below a certain level and fire an alarm 😄

haughty quail Jun 29, 2019, 4:00 PM

#

Mods can do that once they add in full support.

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 4:51 PM

#

I'll just paste some math from my Reddit posts here:

Total fuel efficiency for vehicles (max energy = energy from one stack):

Biofuel: 300 MJ, 200 Stack size, max energy 60 GJ
Coal: 270 MJ, 100 Stack size, max energy 27 GJ
Compacted Coal: 600 MJ, 100 Stack size, max energy 60 GJ
Fuel: 750 MJ, 100 Stack size, max energy 75 GJ
Turbofuel: 2000 MJ, 100 Stack size, max energy 200 GJ
Battery: 1000 MJ, 100 Stack size, max energy 100 GJ
Nuclear Fuel Rod: 750GJ, 50 stack size, max energy 37500 G

daring surge Jun 29, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

can someone help me out getting my 1 to 10 splitter?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:14 PM

#

@daring surge sure, but maybe consider manifold instead

barren elm Jun 29, 2019, 5:15 PM

#

---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

#

Unless 10 constructors need more of the ware than your current belt capacity (in which case a 1:10 splitter wouldn't work either)

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

in that case a manifold is still better, because you have more machines running at 100% so less power spikes

daring surge Jun 29, 2019, 5:18 PM

#

manifold?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:18 PM

#

---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

#

is belt

is splitter

daring surge Jun 29, 2019, 5:18 PM

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i got 450 coal and 450 iron i gotta divide over 10 foundrys

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:19 PM

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yeah, you can do the manifold for each resource separatedly

daring surge Jun 29, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

aand i just crashed my game twice cus i forgot to make my last freight cart stay on a flat surface while docking

#

btw does that also make sure every line has equal amounts of resource comin through?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

yeah, it balances itself after a while

#

the first machine will be eventually full and will let the other items flow to 2nd machine

#

if you have enough input, then you should be fine

#

this is your setup

📎 unknown.png

#

will be efficient in a little over 10 minutes

#

but first 8 machines are efficient in 4 minutes already

#

so it's pretty good

daring surge Jun 29, 2019, 5:28 PM

#

ok thx

frigid sluice Jun 29, 2019, 5:30 PM

#

What are these batteriea you are talking about?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:30 PM

#

item from experimental

glacial hemlock Jun 29, 2019, 5:30 PM

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No batteries involved

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:31 PM

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some people reported that they can be used as a vehicle's power source

#

idk if that's correct, but if I assume it is, this is their fuel value

frigid sluice Jun 29, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

Oh, how do you make/use them

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 5:32 PM

#

ugh I don't know

#

let me check my website

#

📎 unknown.png

inland shadow Jun 29, 2019, 6:18 PM

#

what's the math on tilted jump pads? Like how many foundations forward and up would you go?

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 6:19 PM

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last time I used them, they weren't really consistent, throwing me in a range of ~2-3 foundations from the center point. I am not sure if they fixed them, but if they didn't, I wouldn't recommend them

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 6:29 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

How am I gonna do the plastic split at my base

crude girder Jun 29, 2019, 6:46 PM

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Just manifold

#

Your machines can only receive and output a certain amount, once it starts clogging up, the rest of the line will receive the resources

#

It'll take awhile to saturate, but it should work at near 100% efficiency after a while

safe halo Jun 29, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

@inland shadow Because of their inconsistency, varied upon angle, speed, jumping or walking, pressing forward or letting go of keys, they're very annoying to use. Plus in early game trying to place a gel pad for landing is a nightmare. I used a system of three at certain angles to get up a small cliff for a time, but ended up just building a ramp of foundations that worked far smoother and didn't eat my biomass (pre coal)

pseudo jay Jun 29, 2019, 7:24 PM

#

@safe halo @inland shadow however, the inconsistency can be removed with by eliminating player input by using conveyor belts

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Ie. Player gets onto conveyor belt and gets dropped off on jumppad without doing anything

warm root Jun 29, 2019, 7:28 PM

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@fierce ruin so i'd guess : if an item has 100 amount each stack > you'd need a wagon for every 3km of rail track to match an mk4 belt? < and a wagon every 2.5km for mk5?

safe halo Jun 29, 2019, 7:28 PM

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@pseudo jay True, though without flight key (pressing w) added, you don't go impressively far.

warm root Jun 29, 2019, 7:28 PM

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that's assuming loading/unloading + acceleration is near instant ofcourse

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 7:30 PM

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Sounds about right plus track is so much cheaper than belts

warm root Jun 29, 2019, 7:31 PM

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it might be cheaper, but still: considering the reports on trains getting 'bugged' if you have multiple trains using the same splitter at the same time > it might still be more efficient to use belts

#

so many reasons not to use trains right now, so little benefits to them

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 7:32 PM

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1 steel pipe and 1 beam per 4m of track

warm root Jun 29, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

you're forgetting i have unlimited everything anyway

#

(well except alu sheeds, only got like 6 mk2 containers of that atm :p)

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

I need to get ready for work bbs I still want to discuss tho

warm root Jun 29, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

i want trains, but having a seperate track for every material type seems super oversized

pseudo jay Jun 29, 2019, 7:33 PM

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@safe halo frankly you can guarantee consistent behaviour without eliminating player input. I have gone for stackable conveyor poles for vertical movement because of that

warm root Jun 29, 2019, 7:33 PM

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so it'd be better to wait till the train splitting problem is fixed

#

also (random example) > right now i have 3 long distance mk4 oil belts, i would need a train with at least 6 cargo containers just to replace those , means i also need 6 platforms for every station on that train etc (since you cant have a train stopping at a station that's shorter then it's full length)

#

fairly sure that'd make trains more resource expencive then belts

still plinth Jun 29, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

More expensive to setup but more performance friendly from what I understand

pseudo jay Jun 29, 2019, 7:38 PM

#

You could reduce the length of stations by running several trains on the same line

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 7:45 PM

#

@crude girder I cant manifold

#

I need too split the plastic

#

For the manufactor and for circuit board production

pseudo jay Jun 29, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

S/can't/don't want to

#

What ratios do you need?

#

Oh 37.5% and 62.5% is easy: split input belt into 8 belts, then merge 3 of those for 37.5% and the rest for 62.5%

fierce ruin Jun 29, 2019, 8:06 PM

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@warm root you could have more mini trains on the same track to make up the difference, for eg only 1 loco and 1 car and then just make more of them to make up the missing

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

@tough shale you can manifold. Just run if near the first set of machines, then run the rest to the 2nd set of machines

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

What asd5a ?

#

@wind spade How would I manifold to the ratio tho

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 8:18 PM

#

you don't need to manifold to ratio

#

you have 2 computer machines and 4 circuit board machines, all need plastic. So a simple 6 machine manifold

tough shale Jun 29, 2019, 8:19 PM

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I trust you hope it works

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

sure it does. It's the same as when you split to multiple machines

safe halo Jun 29, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

@pseudo jay For the angled one? Can you grab a screenshot?

pseudo jay Jun 29, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

lemme build that real quick

pseudo jay Jun 29, 2019, 9:12 PM

#

@safe halo something like that

📎 unknown.png

#

you can tweak trajectory by adjusting the end of the conveyor

safe halo Jun 29, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

Oh, yeah. I get that. I meant it's difficult without using things like conveyors, fences, or in your case poles to block a player into only going that one direction

pseudo jay Jun 29, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

i use ladders for vertical movement

#

easier to setup

#

and more compact

safe halo Jun 29, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

Yeah. Ladders are pretty great

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

damn, does anybody know how to convert a number of seconds in google sheets to hh:mm:ss?

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

@wind spade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zADtaH-8yI

YouTube

Ryan Praskievicz

Google Sheets How to Format Time

How to convert decimal time to hh:mm time in Google Sheets. Sample Google Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DUyBmjppDcPdFJr-snxF9fE6leuZDz9jl9os...

▶ Play video

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:42 PM

#

@random fog thanks. I found this formatting option, but couldn't figure out that it has to be in days, I was assuming it needs minutes or hours.

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:45 PM

#

well, i guess d

#

stands for days

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:47 PM

#

for me I was using "Format > Number > Elapsed time"

#

but the cell has to be in days

#

that's why they do the /24/60/60 for seconds

#

and I had my cells in seconds and was trying minutes or hours, for some reason, I didn't thought it'll need days

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:49 PM

#

)))

#

📎 unknown.png

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:51 PM

#

yeah. It shows elapsed time in hh:mm:ss and needs days as input. who could've known

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:52 PM

#

well its typical to spreadsheets to have additional cells just to get numbers be converted in another format accepted by a function

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:52 PM

#

oh yeah. But I didn't need them. Since the seconds are calculated by a formula, I can easily add the division as well to the formula

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:53 PM

#

thats when you don't need the number somewhere else 😃

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:53 PM

#

nah, it's just a small table of Freight Platform fill/empty times

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:54 PM

#

lol small tables sometimes grow

#

make sure not to end up with a table kilometer in diameter

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:55 PM

#

it's only 6 columns and 11 rows

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:55 PM

#

... they said 😄

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:55 PM

#

unless they publish a patch with new belt speeds or new item stack sizes, I am ok

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:56 PM

#

they actually updated belt speeds in alpha not so long ago

#

in experimental*

wind spade Jun 29, 2019, 11:58 PM

#

yeah, I am including that

#

since trains are in experimental only, I don't see the need to calculate with old belt speeds

random fog Jun 29, 2019, 11:59 PM

#

what would be great is a new splitter with adjustable throughput for any output hole

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:01 AM

#

I already talked about this a few times.

Basically if you want to set exact number (like 40 ipm on the left side), then it won't work even if they figured out some magic way to do the splitting (they won't, since it's impossible to do exact split)
if you want a ratio (like 1:4), that is doable

Both options are useless anyway, since we have manifolds and they are way better than any ratio splitter

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:02 AM

#

manifolds?

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:02 AM

#

---+---+---+---+---+

#

is belt

is splitter

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:03 AM

#

well, gimme 10 minutes and i'll write piece of code capable of converting throughput values into ratio plus input throughput

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:04 AM

#

ok, but don't forget these assumptions:

belt doesn't have to be full
items on the belt doesn't need to have equal spacing between them
there may be a more than 60 seconds gap between batches of items (some alts are producing 64 secs)

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:04 AM

#

---+---+---+---+---+
that setup would be so brilliant if only machinery would accept not a whole stack of materials but only needed for 2-3 products

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:05 AM

#

also:

the throughput for last minute doesn't have to be the same as the throughput for the previous minute

#

yeah, that's like the only manifold disadvantage. I actually have a tool, that pretty accuratedly predicts the time a manifold needs to start operating at 100% of capacity

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:05 AM

#

ok, i get it

#

but we don't need a golden hammer there

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:06 AM

#

the times are mostly around 5-10 minutes, with the last two machines often being the slowest (around 20-30 minutes). But that differs based on item stack size, throughput, number of machines, etc.

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:06 AM

#

just let me choose throughtput for 2 outputs and let the rest go into last one

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:07 AM

#

so, a priority splitter?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:07 AM

#

not exactly

#

say I have a prod line for 25 resources/sec

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:08 AM

#

oh, please keep it /min

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:08 AM

#

i want to be able to send that 25 there

#

rest to go other way

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:09 AM

#

yeah, that's exactly what manifolds do (kinda)

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:09 AM

#

yeah

#

but you can't make this happen far from prod line

#

you have to pass it all through

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:09 AM

#

and they don't need any setup for that (no setting up ratios in splitter), are easily extendable (again, without setting any splitters)

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:09 AM

#

and wait for ages for it to saturate

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:09 AM

#

it will always work in a finite amount of time

#

and considering we have no permanent output, where we can put our resources, our production lines will get stuck at some point anyway

fierce ruin Jun 30, 2019, 12:11 AM

#

:lurk:

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:11 AM

#

well, i think about it like that.
if its so complicated to make what i'm talking about, okay

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:11 AM

#

but let's assume you really want the splitter and you don't want to use manifolds. Sure, that's a valid assumption.

But there is no way to make a splitter split exactly 25/min

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:11 AM

#

i can bould a conveyor mk1

#

it will pass no more 60/min

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:12 AM

#

I am open to discussing this and I can provide examples that will break any piece of code you will pass to me

#

yeah, but it won't even pass 60 ipm

#

@feral dew did a research on this

#

because of how splitter works, it may actually pass a little less than 60 ipm

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:12 AM

#

gimme means to slow down belts to values below that and i'm actually okay

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:12 AM

#

I can try to find his answer on a slightly different setup

#

but the same case basically

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:14 AM

#

well, i just could make a fast belt buffer

#

then "slow" piece

#

of say 20 / min

#

and vuala

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:15 AM

#

what's the matter?

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:15 AM

#

theoretically that would work better

#

@feral dew another case of a "splitter to do X per minute on a side belt"

#

and I mentioned you because we got into the "split 60 ipm using mk1 belt" issue

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:15 AM

#

btw you thought about internal buffer inside splitters in this case?

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:16 AM

#

they don't have it

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:16 AM

#

they don't have "specified output rate option" either

#

😄

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:16 AM

#

yeah, fair.

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:16 AM

#

wouldn't work anyways

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:16 AM

#

^

#

one of the main issues: how do you decide, where to put the item?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:17 AM

#

round robin i guess

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:17 AM

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you only know that you need to put 20 ipm on side belt. How do you that from the splitter's point of view

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I'm talking about the splitter you mentioned, with rate option

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:18 AM

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actually no

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think of it like this

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we got outpust 1, 2 and 3

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you decide where priority goes

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not necesserily where biggest number is

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then you got the algorithm

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all outpust have internal buffers

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:19 AM

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btw, @feral dew we need that post of yours pinned here (the one where you explain why low mk belt split doesn't work). I'm tired of searching for it for conversations

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buffers are fine, but they only delay the issue, not remove it completely

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:20 AM

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if the top 1 priority's buffer have got 2 items in it, pass

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then top 2 priority, same

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then the rest

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if all full, input stops

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outputs just draw from internal buffers with given speed

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:21 AM

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first of all, I would hate my splitters if they keep some items inside. I don't want my rare 1 SC/min to be stuck in some kind of a buffer just because

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:21 AM

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buffer capacity discissable

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it could stuck only if some output full

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of not, no storage

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:22 AM

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second, imagine this example:

you have input of 30ipm on a fast belt (e.g. mk4). The items come in batches of 30 items in ~4 seconds. Then there is 56 seconds gap.

this breaks almost any split you want

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:23 AM

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well, it doesn't

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:24 AM

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it does

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:24 AM

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you got nice supply of things yesterday, doesn't mean that today you have to return all the low priority stuff because supply stopped

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:24 AM

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e.g. if you have 5:5:rest split, with 1,2,3 priorities
first item goes to first lane, 2nd item goes to 2nd lane, maybe 2-4 items will fill some internal buffers, but rest will go to the low priority

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so you will get at the best 3 ipm

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but not the 5 ipm you wanted

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(and yeah, you can argue, that you can increase stack size of the buffer, but I can increase the numbers and we are back with the same issue)

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:25 AM

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gimme a minute

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:26 AM

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okay, sorry, now is one of teh few times that I'm actually playing the game

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but I'll try and figure out what's going on. @random fog What in the world are you trying to say?

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:27 AM

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keep in mind, that I'm not trying to sink your idea or anything. I think output rate splits would be nice. But I'm just pointing out that it's impossible to do an algorithm that won't break on special cases

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@feral dew he is rooting for output rate splits, e.g. 50 ipm left, 30 ipm top, rest right, with priorities in this order

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:27 AM

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ah

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@random fog So, the reason why output splits wouldn't work

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is because if you decide the ppm on that output, there's a good chance that it won't be an integer ratio of the input rate

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Mk1 belts and Mk2 belts work flawlessly, since 120/60 is just 2

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:28 AM

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now he's stuck with trying to figure the algorithm of the output rate splitting, he tried internal buffer in the splitter. I must say that is actually a good idea, but it just dealys the issue

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:29 AM

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yea, internal buffer resolves that

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:29 AM

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oh geez

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:29 AM

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😄

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:29 AM

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no, it just pospones the issue for a bit

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:29 AM

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So, what happens when the internal buffer fills up?

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is it infinite?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:29 AM

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guys please, lets stick to the greeny's example

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📎 unknown.png

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:30 AM

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I don't know what greeny's example is, but ultimately I'ma sking you what you think of buffers

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because, that's an issue in of itself

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once the buffer fills up, it's the exact same thing as if the buffer didn't exist to begin with

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:30 AM

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no, its slightly different

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let me explain

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:30 AM

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my example was touching a bit different issue than @feral dew is trying to point out

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:31 AM

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explain it thoroughly then, I'm building a manifold

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:31 AM

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@feral dew my example was 30ipm on a fast belt (like mk4), in batches of 30 items every minute

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or basically any number of items in batches, so there is a big gap between some items and the splitter has no way to deal with that (since it doesn't know there's the gap)

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:33 AM

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its a question of a goal there

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for me its okay if a batch arrives and 5 ipm goes on a priority side only while batch is still there

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i mean, 60 items arrives, they pass away in, say, 10 seconds

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and 5 ipm ports sucked only 10 of it

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well, okay, thats the goal

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:35 AM

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wait what. Each of the 5 ipm outputs should only take 5 items from the batch. Remaining 50 items should go to the last output

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:36 AM

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oh yes, miscalculated, you're right

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anyways, you got the point

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:37 AM

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ok. So, you are saying, that it should suck the items even though it's not their "time" yet?

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and keep it in an internal buffer?

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how big is the buffer?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:37 AM

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not at all

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:38 AM

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👀

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:38 AM

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you now confused me more than before. So what happens if a batch of 60 items arrive?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:38 AM

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it depends on belt speed

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5 ipm is an item every 12 secs right?

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:39 AM

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explain then

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:40 AM

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i guess internal buffer could be one for all, not per output

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so, while batch is still there, 5 ipm output takes one item as soon as batch arrives

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and a new one once in 12 secs

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from the common buffer

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like it was a leak in a pipe, through which only 5 ipm could go

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:42 AM

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what if the buffer is emptied before the next batch arrives?

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:42 AM

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what if there isn't immediately an item after 12 seconds?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:43 AM

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then no item is delivered into 5 ipm gate

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buffer size lets say 3 items, relitively small

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:43 AM

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and your 5 ipm isn't 5 ipm but less

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imagine you had chains of those splitters

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like one doing 200 ipm split, then another one doing 75 ipm split from that, another one doing 20 ipm split

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:44 AM

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why they are less

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idon't get it

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:44 AM

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because you didn't have an item to put there

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:44 AM

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but there are no items in the first place

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:44 AM

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buffer was empty and no item arrived before you needed it

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aiojdiouehfiuehfie what

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:44 AM

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they passed away

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:45 AM

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totally confused right now sorry

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:45 AM

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Okay, let me ask something

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what if your input is in packet form

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where, there isn't an item ever 24 seconds

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so, every 12 seconds, there's a part, or isn't

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:46 AM

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one batch comes in
buffer gets filled
buffer starts sending 5 ipm (1 item every 12 seconds)
buffer sends everything it can
buffer needs to send an item now, but there's no item
buffer doesn't send item, so the output isn't 5 ipm
next batch of items arrive

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:46 AM

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now i get it

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thats what you are talking about

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:47 AM

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basically, distributions like 5 ppm, 5ppm, excess ppm, doesn't work

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because there's a good chance that the input would be inhommogeneous

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:47 AM

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you say as if there was a periodic tick for that 12 secs

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i meant something different

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my bad

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:48 AM

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yeah we are just trying to tell you that your setup won't work.

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:48 AM

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once in 12 seconds, i mean, if the buffer is not empty, and the output did not send an item in last 12 secs, it does

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:49 AM

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yeah, but that can mean, that you send less than 5 ipm

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:49 AM

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when does it put items in the buffer?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:49 AM

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when it arrives

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 12:49 AM

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and if there is a chance that 5 ipm split won't do 5 ipm (even though the input is obviously more than 5 ipm), then the splitter is unreliable

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and unreliable splitter will be replaced with manifolds

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because that's what we do with unreliable splitters

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:50 AM

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well, that's different

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5 ppm divides any belt

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so that won't be a problem, the problem is when the input is homogeneous

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and when does the splitter take in buffer. Taking in buffer by definition reduces the throughput on other belts

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:51 AM

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not necesserily

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:51 AM

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how not necessarily

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give one example where taking in buffer doesn't take an item away from another belt

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:52 AM

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you got an item input, same moment you got it in priority gate

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it was inside buffer during the very same game tick as it exited

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:53 AM

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oh geez, then when does the buffer go into play?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:53 AM

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buffer stack up only when splitter is unable to fit items into priority gates

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so, you got the rest output

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 12:54 AM

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So, let's say that we have a split from a 270 belt into a 60 belt and a 270 belt, or 270 -> 60/270

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with buffers the 60 belt will receive an item and won't be able to recieve another after 4.5 ticks of the 270 input belt

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after recieving the item, the 270 belt will receive an item, and every other item will enter the 270 belt, with every other entering the 60 belt

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after 4.5 ticks, the 60 belt's buffer should have 2 items in it

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at the 4.5, the 60 belt opens again, and 1 item from the buffer enters the 60 belt

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which means we have a repeat of the initial case, except the buffer now has one item in it

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naturally, after 5 repeats of this cycle, the buffer will be full

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and it will act as if the buffer never existed, with every item entering the 270 belt, instead of every other item entering the 270 belt

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in other words, the buffer achieved nothing instead of lengthening some period of time

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 12:58 AM

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the whole point of a buffer is to give an item to a prioruty gate when it needs it, but input is not stable

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in the ideal situation where you got reliable 270 input it does not play any role

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think of it like if there was a simple splitter

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270 in, 270 out, 270 out, but on last 270 after 5 meters starts 60 belt

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:01 AM

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what

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:01 AM

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you got 60 reliable output, aren't you

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rest dumps into 270

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:01 AM

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no..

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:01 AM

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why not

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:02 AM

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This si what I was going to explain in the very beginning

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so, the problem is the non-integer ratio between 270 ppm and 60 ppm

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:02 AM

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270 breaks down into 135 + 135

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:02 AM

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Just listen

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The 60 belt can reopen after 1/60 minutes, since it has a belt speed of 60 parts per minute, and 1 part length is *one part. Similarly, the input enters an item ever 1/270 minutes. That means that the 60 belt can recieve an item after 4.5 ticks of the input belt

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Well, obviously it can't take in an item after 4 ticks, so it has to take in an item at the 5th tick

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Which means that during a period of 5 ticks, 0.5 ticks are spent not accepting items, which reduces the throughput

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:04 AM

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thats the reason for a buffer

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:04 AM

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in fact, the output will be 45 ppm.

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:04 AM

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to put away round-robin mechanics

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:04 AM

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I literally just explained why the buffer is a temporary solution

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:04 AM

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wait a sec

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you mean that under no circumstances never ever can 60 belt be a fair 60 belt?

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:05 AM

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No.
I said that when you split 270 -> 60/270, the 60 belt won't accept 60 ppm

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:06 AM

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how does it suck items from constructor, why can't it suck items from buffer just like that?

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:06 AM

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❔ ❓ 😕

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:06 AM

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^

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:07 AM

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think of a priority output gate as if it would be output of a constructor

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and constructor's inventory was the buffer

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and the belt's speed was adjustable

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i just don't get why it would differ from such a situation (where 60 belt is actually a 60 belt, not 45)

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:10 AM

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@feral dew I think he is right with this one tho. Still doesn't mean the splitter will work, but in this example you and he provided, it works.

Since the internal buffer is not related to belt tick speed, but game tick speed. So it can output an item every Xth game tick as needed for the 60 IPM to work.

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:11 AM

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I've done my part 🤷
I don't believe it would work.

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:11 AM

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that is of course only in the case, that the buffer has an item in it

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:12 AM

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if you let only a priority output to take items from buffer, it would be full

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and non'priority output get items only when buffer overflows

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:12 AM

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@feral dew imagine a chest there instead, directly connected to one output of a splitter (if we could do it). If you connect a 60 ipm belt to the chest, you will get 60 ipm, if the input is more or same as 60 ipm

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:14 AM

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you're saying to smoothen out an non-homogeneous input?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:15 AM

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or you could imagine a storage container capable only of one stack of items, but when it fills up, input items get moved on another "low-priority" belt instead of stopping the input conveyor

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:16 AM

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@feral dew depending on the size of the storage, it could work. But at some point the storage will be too big to be useful

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:16 AM

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and so, input is 270, output is 60

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:16 AM

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still breaks on special cases tho, so not really useful anyway

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:16 AM

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and the "low-priority" is 270 too, but it gets its items once in a while

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:16 AM

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So that's what you've been talking about.
If you want something like that in the game, go upvote something on question site, people've been asking for that since alpha, yet we have been getting by perfectly fine without

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:17 AM

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just like you are perfectly fine with assembler, still prefer things like c# and python

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😄

feral dew Jun 30, 2019, 1:18 AM

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no, I think those things are on completely different orders of magnitude.

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:18 AM

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well, but in this case manifolds are C# as a superior language

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:18 AM

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they take much time to get filled up

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:18 AM

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fun fact: even if we had perfect splitters that will be capable of splitting X ipm like you said, manifolds will still be better

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reason why: because I don't need to set up any ratios in a splitter and just put a row of those and don't ever change it again

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the same if I underclock/overclock the machines, manifold will automatically balance stuff, with the splitters I would need to change the ratio

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:20 AM

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i would place a manifold behind the "magic splitter"

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:20 AM

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the same if I upgrade the machines (MK2s are comming), some of them will stop working (output filled), etc. ect.

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:21 AM

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the "magic splitter" is required to govern what assembly line gets items, not what assembler

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:21 AM

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you can manifold manifolds as well

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:22 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

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red is manifolding in series

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blue is "magic splitter"

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when you have this assembly lines in different parts of the map, you don't want to build few extra kilometers of belt

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and wait overnight for all this to fill up

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:24 AM

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I doubt it's overnight

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:24 AM

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it would be still the case if only you could setup a priority (even without ratio) for the splitters

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:24 AM

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most manifolds have efficient times of around 20 minutes

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:25 AM

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i got one not filling up for whole evening

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line of bolts

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:25 AM

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also, you could build the priority assembly, connect it to the miner and start building "not a priority assembly", while the first one is filled

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:25 AM

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500 for a stack

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:25 AM

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and you can also overrride the wait time by prefilling machines

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and lastly - get rid of screws. They are useless

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:26 AM

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eventually made me build large splitting system

#

They maybe useless, but the mechanics remain to be like that

#

In fact, 2 things coult make me happy in this story:

production machinery input would not accept item if it is already enough for 3 crafts
priority on simple splitters without ratio

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:30 AM

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priority on splitters mostly means, that you don't produce enough raw materials so you need to prefer some part of a factory over another

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:30 AM

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or i want top speed production of a part of my factory today

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:31 AM

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then connect a belt with enough resources to it

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:31 AM

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told you about screws

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same would happen with wire

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:32 AM

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told you about prefilling the machines

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2 minutes work, less than building a balancer

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:32 AM

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what if i don't have 2k of new resource in my pocket

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:32 AM

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then take it from the first few machines as they fill

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what if I only have one hand and I'm blind?
what if?

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there is always a case it doesn't work

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:33 AM

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after that, they would start to fill all over again

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:33 AM

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I mean, just connect it and let it fill

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it'll probably fill before you build the next part anyway

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:34 AM

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thats the difference of whether you have quality of life or not

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:35 AM

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I don't see how priority splitters would help you with that issue

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:35 AM

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screw story did not fill up even when i finished all the big assembly line it was meant to feed

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not even close

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:36 AM

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what's your setup? How many machines, what's the recipe you are making and how many screws are you inputting?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:36 AM

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and then i build some other factories, new oil refinment station, still not full

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standart recipe, 5 assemblers of reinforced plates

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:37 AM

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how many screws input?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:37 AM

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don't exactly remember, but it was exactly what was needed

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not a screw more

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:38 AM

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cool, because you need 600 screws/min

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I hope you have mk5 belt for it

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:38 AM

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it was 3 belts, yes

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there was no mk5 belt at the time

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:38 AM

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sooo, how exactly does your setup look like? 3 belts into 5 machines?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:39 AM

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let me launch the game

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:39 AM

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just fyi, if you had mk5 belts, the fill time will be 14 mins, 35 secs

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which is super acceptable

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:39 AM

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there were no mk5 belts released

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:40 AM

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considering first 3 machines are already efficient in 2 mins 47 secs

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so it's most likely something wrong with your setup

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:40 AM

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it began to work when i evenlysplit these belts

#

wait a min, i'll make a screenshot

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it was two splitters on 1 and 2 belt feeding merger on belt 3

#

plan was to wait until belt 3 gets loaded full

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then belts 1 and 2 would send less screws and everything would line up

#

belt 3 never filled up

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:42 AM

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I'll wait for the screenshot

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:47 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

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its 6 assemblers

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i managed to even out this line only when i unlocked mk4 belts

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and yea, you can't use manifold when there is no belt to handle it

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:49 AM

#

so:

you need to be 100% sure that you have enough input
all the input belts need to be moving at all times
I may be wrong, but those input belts on the right side look like MK2s
and of course you can use manifold instead of this 🍝

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:49 AM

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the 3 inputs from right side are not evened, so, pain

pale jetty Jun 30, 2019, 1:49 AM

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to say what @wind spade wants to say: "SCREW SCREWS!"

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:50 AM

#

and yeah, screw screws, reinforced iron plates are like 100 times better

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:50 AM

#

all moves smoothly

#

there are enough screws, otherwise it would not begin to work after evening the belts

wind spade Jun 30, 2019, 1:52 AM

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wait, so where's the problem, it works?

random fog Jun 30, 2019, 1:52 AM

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it didn't until i unlocked mk4 belt