math-and-meta

[pale jetty]

also 4 pure iron nodes close to a pretty open area

[fierce ruin]

It has some really great nodes, that is where most of the ores I need are going to come from

[pale jetty]

actually i miscounted them. It's 6 pure iron nodes super close 😂

[arctic nova]

indeed. northern forest spot has good purity of most resources, most kinds of resources in an 500m area and the furthest you have to travel is around 1.5 km for uranium. also the north end with high amount (10 nodes) of oil is reasonable close

[stark lichen]

I wonder why some places like the Sothern Forest are devoid of resources.

it has drop pods that don't require advanced materials to open

so I don't think it will be an endgame area

[pale jetty]

well i assume that's gonna be the north east since it's the only spot where you can't spawn and there are also a lot of pure nodes

[still plinth]

Yea northern forest is nice you just move up next to desert canyon and everyone except uranium is within like 500m

[arctic nova]

potentially. it was pretty tough terrain on my first base in the closed alpha, when I tryed connecting the oil from crater to the grass fields with sugar cubes

[feral dew]

@fluid ether
PSA: ratio splitters would not work.

@wind spade you should know by now, I'm asleep at all times

[brisk crystal]

Some basic ratios splits

Note Blue is outputs and Orange is inputs which is used to determine whether splitter or merger

Also from these 3 you can already sense the pattern

[fluid ether]

@feral dew you say they would not work? How so? On top of having someone post selfmade mechanical ratio splitters right below which means they are already theorised. And even though I apreciate the idea, having one ratio splitter instead of n for a very limited set of ratio splitters (That are way to big to be practical for me) would be rather nice

[brisk crystal]

I found this works well as an overflow valve. Say you want most of your output to go into a set of machines or area but when that area is saturated with inputs then all excess input flows through overflow output (1). However there is some inefficiency in the fact the overflow takes away resources from your main output during normal operation.

[fluid ether]

I could see overflow as a means of having stuff made that you not need tons of, like rifle mags.

[brisk crystal]

A use case scenario is in power plants if I want to power a bank of power gens but also want the output of products to switch into a truck station when the gens are saturated

[fluid ether]

that would also be quite nice

[brisk crystal]

Another upside to this is you can station this "overflow gate" next to a truck station and you don't have to move the truck station or route any conveyors in the event of a system expansion which is the case if you are manifolding

[feral dew]

@fluid ether in one single splitter, it wouldn't work

I'm sure you're aware of the problems with mixed splitting? (Different belt speeds), that same thing would hinder a splitter which worked in some ratio of outputs, rather than having the outputs cycle in some cyclical fashion

[fluid ether]

I don't know of mixed splitting problems.

[feral dew]

The result would be, if you wanted a 1/3 split, it might look something like 2/5, in other words useless

Oh, really. Okay.

[fluid ether]

if the splitting ratio would remain deterministic, that is fine lol

[feral dew]

The problem is that it isn't what you expect.

[fluid ether]

if I know that a 1/3 ratio setup is 2/5 all the time, I can still use that

Well, that could be fixed, just like any other bug.

[feral dew]

It isn't a bug

It's mechanics.

[fluid ether]

? if something is not working as intended, that is a bug

[feral dew]

If you have a 450 belt splitting into a 60 belt and a 450 belt ( 450 -> 60/450 ), how would you expect it to turn out?

60 items in the 60 belt and 390 items in the 440 belt?

[fluid ether]

the splitting is independant from the throuput per minute

if you have a ratio, it just have to hold firm to that ratio

[feral dew]

Not in the case of mixed belt splitting

It's 100% dependant on input

[brisk crystal]

You'd expect full saturation of the 60 belt since 450/2 is greater than 60 per minute and 390 is just the resultant.

[fluid ether]

well, then that is a bug

or normal, like what would one expect

[feral dew]

Well, what you actually get is 56.25 or so items in the 60 belt, and the remainder (I won't bother) in the 450

[brisk crystal]

That could be put down to the slightly off timings of the belt items coming into the splitter and when the 60 belt can recieve a new item

[feral dew]

The reason is because it takes 1/60 minutes for the 60 belt to be ready to recieve another item. Except items are entering the splitter every 1/450 minutes

The 60 belt requires 7.5 ticks of the 450 input belt

But it can't accept items untill the 8th tick

A while 0.5 ticks are spent with the 60 belt bot recieving any items

That gap is the cause of the discrepancy, not a bug

[fluid ether]

hmm, a ratio splitter would work then

since you could use a better belt with a higher tickrate

[brisk crystal]

It's just a result of having belts that come in at different speeds that don't divide nicely between each other. And also the fact of having constant distance between items and speed of belts.

[feral dew]

No.. the ratio splitter would have the same problem of belts having a time delay

[fluid ether]

if you use the same belt what is left that would stop it from working as intended?

[brisk crystal]

*Distance is constant IFF belt input is saturated or MAXED

[feral dew]

If you want your ratio splitter to split nicely between two values, just like the 450->60/450 split, it's going to be off by a few ppm, thus making it useless.

[fluid ether]

you dont have to use a lower speed belt on the other output with a ratio splitter anymore

[brisk crystal]

Since you just cannot have a nice 60/120/240/480 system

[feral dew]

In this case, if your ratio splitter required, for say, its left door to be available every 3 second, and its right door every 7 seconds, for a 3/7 split over a period of 10 seconds, you'll run inyo the same problem. In this case the thing limiting the items entering a belt isn't belt speed, but door speed

The math is completely the same, though

[brisk crystal]

Imagine if conveyor speed became a toggle which you could switch from like 100% which is max to a lower PPM if required

[feral dew]

@brisk crystal i don't understand

[brisk crystal]

Like if you could underclock conveyor speeds to craft custom splits

[fluid ether]

you would have to make the ratio splitters doorspeed fast enough to keep up with the splitting? Like one thing that I want to say : There is most likely a solution to the problem.

[feral dew]

Oh. Eh. I guess. I wouldn't use it though. The conveyors are nice enough already

[fluid ether]

The way it is programmed might make it impossible now, but I doubt there is no way to make it functional.

[feral dew]

There might be a solution, but I am certain it isn't one that people are looking for

[fluid ether]

why wouldn't they. There is enough of a reason to change it.

[feral dew]

A lot of people say thing like, send 1 item in 1 direction, and 5 in the other for a 1/5 ratio split

But unfortunately, that turns the 5 ratio side into packets of 5 items. Packets of items do NOT merge or split well

[fluid ether]

if the output belt is fast enough it should honestly

it would be as if you just removed an item of a belt in the middle

[feral dew]

Remember Eila's mergers?

[fluid ether]

yes

[feral dew]

Where you can't merge packets of items to the capacity of a belt. That would make ratio splitters that just sent 3 items in 1 direction and 5 in the other problematic

Also, packets do weird things when splitting

[fluid ether]

I already know that it doesn't work with the current system. I am saying that there is most likely a fix for this

[feral dew]

If you have 4 items enter a regular splitter, you'll have 2 go in 1 direction and 1 in the others, consistently

[brisk crystal]

If it is like 5 items going 2 ways you will encounter a 3/2 in a supposedly 50/50 split

[fluid ether]

in a different timeframe that would work, you know?

[feral dew]

Maybe, but like I said, people would make a fuss over the problems inherent in any solution

[fluid ether]

why would they if it works better or even as intended

[feral dew]

I'm pretty sure that better factory design would make them as unnecessary as they are now.

I've never needed one nobody I know has ever needed one. It seems that people can get by wonderfully without

[fluid ether]

they do not use them because they do not exist

factorio doesn't have ratio splitters either, I would LOVE to use them there, ebcause I have to work with very different ones. But I can't so I have to improvise.

[feral dew]

Because they aren't necessary

[fluid ether]

thats what you say

but we already saw someone post ratio splitters here. WHy would someone even bother making a picture of it if it wasn't for using them ?

[feral dew]

We are in the math and meta channel you know

[fluid ether]

also: i am proposing reasons why I would want a ratio splitter.

like, I have the need of one

[feral dew]

Greeny and I came up with ways to know saturation time of a general manifold, but that literally isn't beneficial at all

[brisk crystal]

Tbh that is what I hoped the Programmable Splitter was but nope

[fluid ether]

you not needing them is fine, you see. But if others have sound reasons and aplications they would use them in, it is rather onesided to say they are unnecessary.

[feral dew]

Alright then.
I'll still hold my banner of: meeting the general expectations of what a ratio splitter is or does is impossible, though.

[fluid ether]

fair enough. Even though I would argue that a ratio splitter outputting its ratio in one period cycle would be enough in my book. But to me this seems a little offtopic anyway.

[gloomy delta]

@wind spade

On dark mode

on I-Am-Blinded-For-Life mode

[brisk crystal]

Dark mode is still blinding, heck a small white square sent on discord is enough to trigger some dark theme users in their pitch black rooms XD

[gloomy delta]

guess I'm back to ghetto dark mode xD

[wind spade]

@gloomy delta how did you managed to get the white background?

[gloomy delta]

that's what dark mode looks like

i just took a screenshot of it

[wind spade]

this is from the live version, consumption tool

[gloomy delta]

uhhhh mine looks like this

every tool

[fierce ruin]

Don't have a dark mode extension installed as well?

[wind spade]

do you have any extensions on?
try disabling:

• adblock
• stylish
• any other extension that could modify the colors

since nobody else did complain, I assume that it's only on your side

[gloomy delta]

I do, but i turned them off

but i fixed it now. Basically when I hit disable on my dark mode extensions it wouldn't change that specific portion for some reason

I had to F5 the page and it fixed itself

[wind spade]

there we go.

Sorry, don't know if I can fix that

[gloomy delta]

nah you good, just a bug with the extension or something

[wind spade]

and probably there is no reason to fix it, since you are the only one experiencing it and you know how to deal with it

[gloomy delta]

Yup haha

[wind spade]

but thanks for reporting issue 🙂

[fierce ruin]

(Greeny you were right about using your tool in the production tab 😉 ) I wasted all that effort for nothing and didn't listen

If you have a configure page for the extension @gloomy delta you can add the site to the exceptions list

[gloomy delta]

that's what I did. I just had to also refresh the page manually after doing so

most other websites once I "disable" a page it automatically fixed it all

this page only did the portion on the left and top -- not the dynamic thing on the right

[wind spade]

idk if that is a bug in the extension or somewhere in my code, but I'd say let's ignore it until someone else reports it

[ashen quest]

does anyone know the cost of tracks?

[fierce ruin]

Not sure as of yet

[barren elm]

I bet it's heavy modular frames + heat sinks

[wind spade]

uranium + supercomputer + bacon agaric

[barren elm]

Damn, you're right, why isn't anything made out of bacon agaric except those pointless inhalers

That'd be one scary track

[wind spade]

why so?

• special enhancing powers (uranium)
• free high quality wifi (supercomputers)
• smells like bacon

[ashen quest]

XD but they are in experimental r ight

has none build them?>

[wind spade]

they are not

[iron python]

Track was steel pipe and steel beam before

[barren elm]

That seems crazy cheap

And doesn't smell like bacon

[polar sleet]

It's made with Fuel Rods

hmm

[pale jetty]

„Glow in the dark train“

[polar sleet]

Uranium cells + bacon agaric + mycelia + turbo fuel -> energy drinks

or bars

nothing says hello world like bacon flavored science drugs

[glad shard]

I wonder how the radiation adds to the flavour

Metallic tasting energy drinks aren't a good time at the best of times

[polar sleet]

nah that's filler... i mean mutagen for extra kick

[pale jetty]

Needs Aluminium Sheets for the can

[polar sleet]

Aluminium Sheets for bed upgrade?

[barren elm]

bacon flavored science drugs
New band name

[wind spade]

Just fyi, the power limit of the experimental version is:

1351967.5 MW (1352 GW)
1050000 MW (1050 GW) out of it is from nuclear power

If one would only use nuclear, he would be left with these mats:
56852 Iron Ore (96%)
17578 Copper Ore (85%)
43184 Limestone (96%)
21342 Coal (96%)
13710 Oil (87%)
6886 Caterium (69%)
3882 Sulfur (61%)
7200 Bauxite (100%)
5356 Quartz (51%)
0 Uranium (0%)

Percentages are from total count of the map (including current belt limitations)

[pale jetty]

oof that's huge! For comparison, the peak load in Germany is 82 GW 😂
(for the whole country)

[glacial hemlock]

@not the nuclear default chain involves 22 intermediate products right?

[wind spade]

the whole setup to manufacture stuff for power eats 51 000 MW (not counting overclocked miners, because I am lazy)

[glacial hemlock]

I wonder with all alts, how complex the nuclear chain is going to be

[wind spade]

34700 MW if counting only the nuclear power

[fluid ether]

thats a lot of energy

all runinng through a thin copper wire most likely touching everything around it including the player

[wind spade]

@glacial hemlock wonder no more

(that's the best I could do to keep it readable, but it crosses on so many points, that I gave up)

[pale jetty]

you could power all the colored countries on this map with that (peakload of 737 GW) and still have 615 GW left:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/ElectricityUCTE.svg/1920px-ElectricityUCTE.svg.png

That's how huge that amount is 😂

[wind spade]

this is the chain, if we don't group machines (so every material has it's own production of intermediate resources)

[glacial hemlock]

Hooly, my phone cant display all. If i zoom out, the text would be unreadable.

Automating nuclear fuel rod at 100% is a real challenge.

[wind spade]

yeah, try with the grouping functionality in settings, although you would need to rearrange some nodes

[glacial hemlock]

Starting to feel like Bob-angel.

[pale jetty]

it's a challenge but from a single manufacturer (0.4 fuel rods /min) you could power 2x Nuclear Power Plants on 100% which is insane

[wind spade]

well, it isn't much change from fuel, where one refinery could power 3 generators

[pale jetty]

well it's just 5 GW vs 450 MW

[wind spade]

so, the miners for max uranium could go to as much as 5 GW (if using highest purities available)

so Nuclear power limit is 1010300 MW or 1010 GW

(including power costs for miners, machines, etc)

also, 2100 waste/min

420 Nuclear Power Plants

[pale jetty]

oof

that calls for a good storage facility

[tawny chasm]

yeah i feel like there needs to be a tier 3 storage container, or a container specifically for nuclear waste

even if it just looks cool 😛

[wind spade]

one plant still produces only 5 waste/min (on 100% load), so you are good with like 3 containers per plant

[polar sleet]

better idea. use the space elevator to dispose of it into space (preferably the sun)

[fluid ether]

3 industrial containers should hold 240 hours of toxic waste for one powerplant ( If my math is right)

[wind spade]

@fluid ether that's assuming you consume 100% of the power generated

[fluid ether]

true

[eternal kiln]

Heh so that becomes the question.......... given remaining materials after getting that power plant built how much power can we manage to consume.

Which seems a bit traveling salesman problem

[fluid ether]

since you can build almost as many jump pads as you like.. a lot?

[eternal kiln]

Ah forgot about those. Ok so I guess machines only

[wind spade]

I was messing around with the consumption tool and even from all the mats, I wasn't really able to find a build that goes over 300 GW

I guess you could just overclock everything for more power consumption, but that feels like cheating the system 😄

[eternal kiln]

Heh we are probably more playtime limited in just accomplishing the task of building said fatory at this point

[fluid ether]

hmm, I would say if you get to the point that power is no problem, overclocking everything to have a smaller blueprint would be viable.

[wind spade]

since nuclear power eats raw materials we could use, I would still not overclock everything, but rather use the extra mats from saved power to make more stuff

[eternal kiln]

^

[lime bane]

I'm doing this simple thing for new players: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/c2gmpm/splitter_contraptions_division_5_to_21/

i'm just trowing the ideas for now

[quick gorge]

Who wants to rate my smeltery? https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550313533997057/590891713774616646

[barren elm]

Where are the manifolds

Where are the double manifolds?

Where are the double manifolds feeding into double mergers?

Hmm, actually suppose that is technically a manifold if you're repeating the pattern

[wind spade]

where is I hate Screws pixelart

[barren elm]

I'll be honest multi-level designs trigger me, but I can't see anything wrong with it

[quick gorge]

... they are at my real factory.
I remade a slice that I've extruded so there isn't belt clutter and to make it easy to see what is going on without taking more then 2 screenshots.

[barren elm]

Suppose you've gone for a "sewer level" for ore beneath smelters, with smelters hidden beneath a floor panel and vomiting up the bars via lifts to the main factory?

[quick gorge]

As soon as belt lifts were added I wanted to focus on them for my next map.

AND THUS This happened. What makes it so compact is the fact the foundries's output is alternating so I can face them to each other and have the outputs take up less space and be directly next to each other.

[barren elm]

Only thing that looks inefficient is the mirrored design leaves a gap of dead space at the top panel

[quick gorge]

The foundries are on the second level of the factory

[lone yoke]

oof playing now cult? ;P

[quick gorge]

Yeah

[barren elm]

What an absolute unit of a factory, bet that can process so many doggos per minute

[quick gorge]

You mean this Tya?

[barren elm]

Yeah

[polar sleet]

doggo + nuclear waste -> Super Doggo

[quick gorge]

That's intended, once you extrude it so much... The thoughput of belts is going to go above what you have unlocked so you can just... go into another lane and thus have that jammed with more belts

[polar sleet]

flies, chases spiders, and delivers even more uranium to the player

[quick gorge]

So it is less limiting then 2 belts, or 4 belts with 2 on top of the other.

In the main factory I have the roof directly above it so I can't go very high and that's why I'm happy with the gap

[pale jetty]

kind of reminds me a bit of the "sarcophagus"

[quick gorge]

Annnd as you can see the coal coming in I just doubled this design up a level to work with alt steel 😛

[polar sleet]

couldn't you compress this further? by removing that bottom floor?

[quick gorge]

But how would I input items?

[polar sleet]

same floor as foundries or the ouputs

in fact you could just put the outputs on the same floor as inputs

[quick gorge]

There wouldn't be enough room.

[polar sleet]

heck, replace the floor foundation with walkways and the hieght reduces accordingly

[quick gorge]

the inner foundries inputs wouldn't be able to fit very well next to the input given what I said about the limiting thoughput.

... well it really depends if you want it to be extruded like this

=========

=========
or

[polar sleet]

?

[quick gorge]

Do you want box or line

[polar sleet]

I think you're talking about somethin else from me

[quick gorge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/590895306628136980/Screenshot_18.png this gap was meant to be there.

[polar sleet]

what purpose?

[quick gorge]

That's intended, once you extrude it so much... The thoughput of belts is going to go above what you have unlocked so you can just... go into another lane and thus have that jammed with more belts

[polar sleet]

do you mean stacking manifolds? like vertical? depth wise?

[quick gorge]

Stacking manifolds though

Also I originally designed this before stacking mergers and splitters and the screenshot was an updated version..
This is what is currently in my factory

(and right now I can't be arsed ripping my whole factory down and redoing it)

[lone yoke]

yo ucan stack them?

someone shows a picture of stacked ones

[polar sleet]

I'll probably need to drop an image of what I'm talking about

[quick gorge]

Though I am now going to mess around with different designs based on mine with taking stacking more into account.

[arctic nova]

what I noticed on the stacking of splitters, the second layer always faces a different direction, so you need to take care when stacking them a lil

[quick gorge]

YEAH they always rotate for some reason

the top on that is being built isn't the same either... that is inputting from the left

Regarding my design and improving it, I kinda need it to line up to the grid, the one I'm with now is 7 wide

And another issue I can't place foundation on the second level to put the mergers and splitters and tbh I don't want to stack them from the first level the effort that will require as I extrude this design would take so much longer :l URGH

[polar sleet]

this my old design for foundries. not as space compact as yours is width wise

I'll show the changes i mentioned that might help you

[barren elm]

Pretty sure yours is more compact

[polar sleet]

well height wise it definitely is

[barren elm]

Only thing more you could realistically do is put another row of smelters feeding off the splitters to each side

[quick gorge]

Consider the fact I wanted my design to be more of a tower given lifts were just added.

And the input is too tight, it won't connect the splitter.

[unborn parrot]

I made a sheet for the 1,000,000 mw plant

If anyone wants it

How much does the nuclear power generator cost

Material wise

[polar sleet]

@quick gorge This compact enough?

mmm that disregard for clipping

[eager spindle]

fun fact: the maximum possible conveyor belt speed is 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 items/ second

[elfin pond]

Mk.579824362

[eager spindle]

mk.a_lot

[wind spade]

hm, let's calculate what MK is that 🤔

[eager spindle]

dew it

[wind spade]

if we ignore mk1 and 2, the grow can be expressed as mk(x) = mk(x - 1) + 60 + 30*x, defining mk(2) = 120

so for the sake of simplicity, let's assume it keeps this growth

(mk7 = 1170, mk8 = 1470, ...)

ah

@eager spindle the number is just a max signed integer on 64 bit

[eager spindle]

yeah

yeah

[unborn parrot]

I just calculated how much concrete I need for the nuclear gens

50k

[wind spade]

crap, the script is taking 100% cpu lol

the one for calculating the MK

[eager spindle]

rip

[arctic nova]

lol. r.i.p.

[unborn parrot]

Why does every website I go on give me a different max nuclear fuel stack value

[wind spade]

if you are referencing my website, it has a bug on it

the correct value is 500

for waste

50 for nuclear fuel rod

200 for Uranium Ccell

[arctic nova]

1 rod was 25 waste?

[wind spade]

yeah

@eager spindle we are now at MK 17,793,057 and still counting

[eager spindle]

holy shit lol

[arctic nova]

once your done express the number with roman numbers lol

[unborn parrot]

The wiki says 100

[arctic nova]

you're*

[wind spade]

yesn't

[unborn parrot]

Who wants to check my 1 tw factory sheet

[limber nest]

saw this yesterday lol

[unborn parrot]

Credit to greeny for values

[limber nest]

you really going through with it

[wind spade]

@unborn parrot you beleive community driven wiki over datamined data?

[unborn parrot]

I changed it alot

[arctic nova]

btw. using alternate for fuel rods and nuclear cells?

[unborn parrot]

Yes

[arctic nova]

roger

[unborn parrot]

More expensive but more bang for your buck

[arctic nova]

well I guess the limiting factor should be the uranium, since it's the most rare resource. Both recipes reduce the uranium/item, so that should be absoluetly worthy

[unborn parrot]

I've listed alt recipes
Buildings
Resource nodes and if they're available
And even extra stuff you should get

I based it on 250% MK3 normal nodes

600/min
3 normal nodes

[arctic nova]

yep, 3 nodes

[unborn parrot]

Gtg be back in 15

[arctic nova]

making some food as well now

[unborn parrot]

Mins

wait i think it didnt send right one

dam i didnt

Here's new one

[wind spade]

the script crashed, so I added a few miliseconds of delay between operations and let it run again... Something is so satisfying at watching the number grow 😄

[arctic nova]

noice 😄

[wind spade]

it's a lot smoother on my pc, but I guess the recording software doesn't like all the math on the background

[arctic nova]

no idea about coding, but can it reach the last number when you use the 64 bit system?

[wind spade]

or maybe just because it's GIF and GIFs suck

there is a check, if max number - current speed is smaller than the addition, it will stop and print the MK

[arctic nova]

ah roger

[wind spade]

so we know that the MK is between the number and +1 number

god it's so slow. Need to reduce the sleep duration

[arctic nova]

It's actually quite funny that you wrote a small script for this useless number^^

that's the real math and meta pioneer spirit 😄

[quick gorge]

@polar sleet
re: https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/590914299233566743
Just got back from thing.

I do not accept that level of clipping tbh... I don't want to anger the stability gods

Plus we don't know if that level of clipping into one another will be patched...

Good if you want to also summon demons though ❤

[wind spade]

I updated the script lol

well, let's find some video to watch

this would take a while

[quick gorge]

Could I get some of your thoughts on this one?

[wind spade]

@quick gorge that's the best one. You need to use it

[quick gorge]

Thought so.

[wind spade]

otherwise you are not worthy to be a Ficsit engineer

[quick gorge]

It's just strange to me.
Meh

[arctic nova]

how many trillions does it deal with/min? Guess you could "calculate" how long it does take to reach quintillion

total no-brainer @quick gorge

[wind spade]

@arctic nova it stops at MAX_INT

which is the 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 number

[quick gorge]

I just wanted to check HOW good it is

[wind spade]

(not belt mk, but belt speed)

[arctic nova]

instead of 1 oil refinery you will need 2 and at the same time also use more raw oil for the same amount. if that is not a fair deal, I don't know

[stuck stratus]

@quick gorge alt plastic can be summed as taking 16 oil to make 9 plastic, regularly it's 12 oil to make 9 plastic.

[wind spade]

@quick gorge but seriously now, totally useless recipe with literally NO advantage. And we tried A LOT to find any

[arctic nova]

which is quintillion if I remember the right english terms @wind spade

[quick gorge]

That's depressing

[stuck stratus]

i'm still in the camp that at least 1 number is a typo, and it will be good if that ever gets addressed

[wind spade]

oh, it's only at 1/18446 of the countdown right now 😦

[arctic nova]

lmao

[wind spade]

let's say 8 mins to do 1/18446

oh

shit

I need to leave it running for 102.5 days

to know the answer for the original question

[arctic nova]

let's conclude on 42 instead.

[eager spindle]

oof, the computer isn't good enough to handle tier infinity

[wind spade]

@arctic nova but what's the question in that case?

[arctic nova]

😃

guess we'll never know

[eager spindle]

if they used a 128 bit number (long long) the max would be 170,141,183,460,469,231,731,687,303,715,884,105,727

[quick gorge]

Okays thoughts on this one?

Hold up is there a full list of alt recipes with ratings?

[wind spade]

that one is actually decent

[quick gorge]

Cuz there should be a list of them with ratings...

[wind spade]

how do you rate an alternate recipe though?

[quick gorge]

like... I always pick copper ore+iron ore= 3 iron ingots...

Then iron wire shortly after

[wind spade]

iron wire + SIPs should be picked asap

the iron + copper is situational

[unborn parrot]

should i put iron wire on aswell

my sheet

greeny

[quick gorge]

I always do it just because I like the extra iron ingot, and that can be turned into wire anyway so.

[wind spade]

yeah, but you should never run out of iron, and you need copper for caterium

[quick gorge]

Have we calculated how much ore of each type we can extract from the ground per min if we have tapped all nodes on the map with Mk3s at 900/m/node ... assuming Mk6 is still 900/m

[arctic nova]

I did a rating of recipes the last 2 days @quick gorge . yet it's a little bit subjective

[quick gorge]

This is why we need multiple people's thoughts on it.

[glacial hemlock]

how to rate a recipe: just get 39 hard drives and get everyone!

[quick gorge]

Quite.

[unborn parrot]

does the rubber+fuel=plastic recipe reduce oil consumption

[quick gorge]

But in order, from the a new save, limited everything.

[wind spade]

anyway, there is no way to rate alternate recipes. There is a lot to consider when picking one:

• raw resource costs (total as well as specific resources)
• raw resource availability nearby
• already finished production lines usable for it
• power requirements change
• space needed
• complexity
• interaction with other alternate recipes
  etc.

That's why I personally think, that there is no way to rate alternate recipes. Also that's why I made the analyzer tool. It helps with most of the ratings from the list and it's up to the user to pick his favorite

@unborn parrot no, it increases it 🙂

[unborn parrot]

ok i wont add that

oil is already choked

[glacial hemlock]

unless they changed the 9 plastic to 18 plastic, then I might consider.

[quick gorge]

So going from the very start.
pick iron wire first .. then bla bla bla and just an ordered list, this is the meta channel after all

[unborn parrot]

beacon alt? any good?

[glacial hemlock]

@wind spade had proved that it is bad in every way.

[unborn parrot]

oh ok

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/calculator?preview=jiq1lIGxes can someone tell me ways to decrease oil consumption

[glacial hemlock]

1. avoid using oil as power source

[unborn parrot]

no

[arctic nova]

as mentioned by @wind spade , there is a lot to take into consideration with the alternate blueprints. My list only rates raw resource input for every bp (and every bp that uses materials that have a good alternate bp as well use those as well, which flows into the raw resource input). The rating is only based on the total resource ammount availabe, e.g. every resource has a rarity coefficient which makes them "somehow" comparable. https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/c29sru/reworked_screw_it_blueprint_comparison_chart/

[unborn parrot]

on that link

that i posted

[wind spade]

@unborn parrot for beacon alt, feel free to check this table https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/alternate-recipes?preview=IY5rjDLgCn

The best two recipes in raw material consumption are without alt beacon.

[unborn parrot]

i kinda dont wanna overclock my oil pumps

i only need to overclock one though

[wind spade]

rofl you knida have to

[glacial hemlock]

you are missing some alts @unborn parrot

[arctic nova]

indeed. I think pushing the oil to the limit would solve it almost immediatly

[glacial hemlock]

spotted at least 3 alts that can bring your oil consumption down to 40%

[unborn parrot]

yeah ok

hmmm

imo only limited by oil and cat

[wind spade]

@unborn parrot also, alternate electromagnetic control rod -> oil consumption almost halved

[unborn parrot]

oh ok

i havent looked at that

[glacial hemlock]

if you have doubt, just tick everything you could.

[wind spade]

alternate circuit board as well

[unborn parrot]

oh thats good

[arctic nova]

high speed connectors as well

[unborn parrot]

10 pure pumps

[wind spade]

high speed connectors too, also silica alternate saves on quartz

[unborn parrot]

the oscillator alt

halfs my iron

[wind spade]

increases oil tho

[unborn parrot]

and doesnt really increase anything

yeah im on 10 pure nodes

[arctic nova]

iron is the most common resource, would not cut there

rarity of the resources. just look at the percentages

[unborn parrot]

yeah ok

ah ok

iron ingot + steel= cuts most raw resources

it cuts 2 coal

nodes

[glacial hemlock]

I wonder turbo motor and nuclear rod... which is more complex?

[arctic nova]

ah btw. @wind spade . is it possible to get uranium and bauxite higher on your calculator? all basic resources are usally standing on top, while those two items are somewhere at the bottom of the calculations

[wind spade]

yeah, it's kinda because the new experimental stuff got added at the bottom

I was planning to do the sorting, but I kinda forgot about it

[unborn parrot]

should i use enriched steel and compacted coal

[arctic nova]

you're an hero greeny 😃

normal alternate steel. enriched stell is imho not the most efficient

since you would need sulfur for the compacted coal, which is one of the rarest.

[wind spade]

but tbh sulfur has almost no other usage

[arctic nova]

But what about bum? 😦

fair enough

[wind spade]

sulfur usage: alternate uranium cell, rest goes to compacted coal for enriched steel

it saves coal, so you can make more steel

[stuck stratus]

sulfur's also used for batteries, but i dunno if that's wiki-only or actually ingame yet

[arctic nova]

batteries are ingame, yet not much of a purpose. Maybe trains will need them, or tier 8 stuff.

[wind spade]

oh yeah. But IDK what batteris are needed for

[unborn parrot]

when they add more sulfur dependant stuff theyll prob add more nodes

[wind spade]

I guess you can use them as fuel, right?

for vehicles

[arctic nova]

heard about that

som1 mentioned that you can use em yesterday, if I remember correctly

[wind spade]

it has half the energy value of a turbofuel

[arctic nova]

didn't you answer and said that batteries are holding less energy compared to turbofuel?

ye

[lavish storm]

I have a headache today, so I might be totally wrong, but, if the increase in speed of belt is linear, shouldn't it be Mk.10 248 191 152 060 862 with speed 9 223 372 036 854 775 800 items/sec. ?

[wind spade]

it's mk(x) = mk(x-1) + (x+2) * 30

[unborn parrot]

jesus christ all the raw mats for my factory have halfed lol

[lavish storm]

you said before that it's "mk(x) = mk(x-1) + 60 + 30*x" meaning that it can be calculated with the use of arithmetic sequence

[unborn parrot]

almost all

[wind spade]

60 + 30 * x = (x+2) * 30 😄

[lavish storm]

Then if we compare the speed increase delta between mk tiers, it goes like 60, 150, 180, 210, etc. which is an arithmetic sequence. And if we sum all the speed increases, we get the speed of the belt (sum of 10 increases is equal to the mk10, etc.). We then know the final speed we want the belt to go (9 223 372 036 854 775 800 in this case, since its the closes multiple of 30). And from there, one can calculate that there is 10 248 191 152 060 862 elements in that sequence.
Sorry for my english though, not really know the correct terms for most of the things 😅

[unborn parrot]

ok updated it

[wind spade]

@lavish storm I knew about the math but I was too lazy doing so. Also I liked the numbers increasing

[lavish storm]

Well, in 102 days, tell me if I was correct 😅😂

[wind spade]

I was a bit off with the math there

it should only be 10 days

[quick gorge]

So how healthy is it to build on the border of the world?

I do not feel safe.

[stuck stratus]

pretty risky from what i've seen of others post about it; hitting the magic barrier incurs rapid booboos

[arctic nova]

the round-earth conspirators don't want you to find out that the earth is flat, that's why they made an energy barrier around.

[quick gorge]

I just wish there was a invisible wall...

[unborn parrot]

can we build in this void

[stuck stratus]

yeah, lotta folks have. just be wary of the world barrier and you're fine

[quick gorge]

I was to grid based on the border :l

[pale heath]

those commas instead of decimal points still make me want to off myself

[unborn parrot]

is there anyway to easily find drop pods

other than the map

[wind spade]

@pale heath and we live with that the whole life

[pale heath]

not only is it wrong but it just looks so much less appealing

[wind spade]

I feel the same about using dots and dashes in the same number

[arctic nova]

from an esthetic point I prefer the dots as thousend marks over commas, since they are smaller, like more discrete then the comma counterpart.

like it is not wrong @pale heath but part of national stardarts. Germany uses commas for decimal and dots for the thousends.

but I agree, would be good if it at least would be standardized around the globe

[pale heath]

but if you're writing it in english just do it the english way

[wind spade]

@arctic nova we use spaces as thousands delimiter

123 456,789

[pale heath]

the period is final and the comma is less so, and yeah nobody really uses commas as thousands on a computer

[arctic nova]

which country @wind spade

[pale heath]

only in writing

[wind spade]

Czech republic

@pale heath we do

[arctic nova]

ah roger not so far away 😃

but btw., in my last excel that I released I actually forgot about changing that stuff. I think the only way to fixing this is by using english language in excel. Dunno, why it's in german on my site, since the rest of my windows is set to english

[wind spade]

Yeah, excel kinda forces it. I agree that in english texts you should use english notation, but I disagree with @pale heath saying that it's wrong to use commas as decimal separators

[magic sparrow]

it's a thing for certain countries. It is not abhorant, just different than what you're used to

[arctic nova]

found the option. next excel sheets that I will upload for the community will have the correct form 😃

but guess we can agree on metric>imperial

[wind spade]

yeah, I'd rather have kilometers per hour than pineapples per spaceship

[arctic nova]

xD

[feral dew]

why are thousand delimiters even important

here in eagle land, we use dots as decimal, but there's no problems with doing 1278476237469781324.3

[wind spade]

for humans, 1 278 476 237 469 781 324.3 is actually more readable surprised

(or whatever thousands delimiters you are using)

[feral dew]

except numbers like that don't actually show up in any regular part of life

if I were a cosmologist, I'd just use scientific notation

if I were talking about jeff bezos' fortune, I'd probably just say X Billion dollars

[wind spade]

well but numbers in the range of 1e5-1e7 are actually pretty common

and the difference between 1e5 and 1e6 can be huge

[feral dew]

hmm, I suppose.
it usually isn't a problem to instantly tell that a number has 5 or 7 digits in it though. Ah well, I guess this isn't even under so on and so forth, is it.

[wind spade]

well maybe not for our freedom friends

but in my country, 3e7 in our currency is a price of an appartment

for example

[feral dew]

I see. That is quite the difference

[wind spade]

so although you don't often need a new house or something, telling the difference between 11000000 and 1100000 is pretty hard

both could be seen e.g. on one page listing houses for sale

[empty hemlock]

i would have laughed if you just made both numbers the same

[wind spade]

I actually did at first, I realised my error, when I double checked 😄

with delimiters, we get 11 000 000 and 1 100 000, we can see the difference immidiatelly

[feral dew]

somewhere in my subconscious, I understood that one had 5 zeros and one had 6, but I didn't know which one at first

[wind spade]

yeah

[empty hemlock]

humans can only group 3 objects together for counting efficently, everything above we have to manually count. so the biggest number you can assess without counting is 1.000.000.000

[wind spade]

I guess with USD having the same prices around 1e4-1e5, it's not that hard

[unborn parrot]

do you have to do the crystal oscillator research to get the crystal computer?

or is it just rare

nvm got it

[cedar mica]

So 1 nuclear fuel rod, last 300 sec. Does that mean making 1 a minute, is too much, for 1 reactor?

[unborn parrot]

what the heck is this

[cedar mica]

@unborn parrot Bad graphics

[unborn parrot]

not my graphics

[cedar mica]

Some parts of the map, is not proper textured

[wind spade]

@cedar mica yeah

[cedar mica]

1 rod a minute, is 5 reactors worth? Thats cheaper then expected

[unborn parrot]

the max you can get can power 420 gens

84 fuel rods

[wind spade]

well "cheaper". Have you seen the production needed for one rod a minute?

[cedar mica]

Map dont have more then 3 normal uranium?

When you plan 40 reactors, for the 100GW. Making 8 rods, instead of 40, is cheap

[wind spade]

it's big setup

[unborn parrot]

which fire thing is harder

green or red one

[quick gorge]

40 Reactors
Because... yeah... the waste.

[unborn parrot]

meanwhile 420 making 2100/min

[unborn parrot]

hey @wind spade they changed the model for quartz crystal

[wind spade]

did they? Wiki shows the old one still

[unborn parrot]

if you didnt know

[wind spade]

honestly, i liked the one before way more

[unborn parrot]

aaand its too shiny

[pulsar stratus]

Hmm

[charred wagon]

#math-and-meta Gods.... guy with Math Difficulties here... ( im rebuilding from the Foundation up ) and i need help understanding this better.... i eventually got to a point where i was just adding more miners, smelters, and so on until my factory was running good. but then it took me adding Shards. if there is like.... a bunch of stuff i can read? or some videos? i have a pad and Paper ready.

[unborn parrot]

the qaurtz is missing a slice lol

@charred wagon we all add tons of smelters and constructors
usually for manufacturers

giant factorys are the way to go

[charred wagon]

i understand that, but what about the math lol. xD

[hot night]

has anyone made a perfect production line for motors

no waste and no conveyer backing up

[pale heath]

that sounds awful

probably someone has though

[unborn parrot]

i have

its this monstrocity

but it filled up ages ago

[wind spade]

@charred wagon I have a relatively long article I wrote about overclocking and shards, if you have a few minutes, you can read it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/bvqzhd/satisfactory_saturday_spam_3/

I'm not sure what math exactly you need, but I guess you can ask what are you looking for and I can try to answer you

[unborn parrot]

ask us what you wants bearded man

we will overcomplicate it and fill it with manifolds

math and meta in a nutshell

[quick gorge]

Maximizing space... I placed a foundation at the VERY corner of the map.

[unborn parrot]

the peak of human evolution right here

maximizing space

[charred wagon]

everything really.... from adding splitters, Mergers, MK Lines..... i need it all.... lol

[quick gorge]

The detection of "is water" isn't there so I just free fell though it so I'm on the ocean bed rn

[hot night]

i want 45 motors per minute

[charred wagon]

also..... thats scary... @quick gorge

[unborn parrot]

can sam ore do anything yet

[quick gorge]

OH OH I can place nuclear waste under here...

[wind spade]

@charred wagon that has nothing to do with overclocking 🤔

[charred wagon]

@wind spade im sorry no it dosint.... but those are the kind of things i think i might need to start looking into?

[wind spade]

if this is your first playthrough, I would say first try something on your own before you copy optimized builds from the internet

[charred wagon]

( im sorry i still a bit fuzzy from just waking up a while ago ) maybe i should be asking more of the lines of Efficiency?

[wind spade]

if you need an efficient build, I'd suggest using some of the tools out there

they can calcualte efficient builds for you

[charred wagon]

im not really looking to copy. i just want a better understanding of the math behind it. lol

[wind spade]

some of them are pinned

[charred wagon]

what one would you recommend? or should i just kinda try them all out?

[wind spade]

it's hard for me to recommend one, when one of them is made by me. You can see which one fits your purposes the most

[charred wagon]

i understand that completely 😃

i will be reading about your Overclocking though

[wind spade]

although I think I can objectively say that I have the most tools on my site 😄

[charred wagon]

pinned 😉

[pulsar stratus]

@wind spade Do you have burn time for fuel somewhere?

[wind spade]

@pulsar stratus burn time isn't fixed. Only fuel energy is. I have the energy values somewhere

[pulsar stratus]

Can we calculate the burn time for 100% of usage?

[wind spade]

sure we can

it's basically just a [fuel energy] / [generator power]

[pulsar stratus]

oh ok

[wind spade]

in seconds

[pulsar stratus]

Was easy :d

[wind spade]

basically 1 MJ = 1 MW/s

although it's not exactly physically correct 😄

although if you are really looking for burn times, you can use https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/power

[pulsar stratus]

It's to add them to the baseLayout UI

[wind spade]

you can see the difference in burn time with biofuel (biomass generator and fuel generator)

you can get most of the fuel values from my JSON data file (key "generators", it's not ideal, but it works) https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/assets/data.json

[feral dew]

@charred wagon if I can give you some early advice. Don't use different speed belts on the output of a splitter. Besides that, you should learn a little more as you play

[pulsar stratus]

Don't think it's right

[wind spade]

coal has 270 MJ fuel value

so 270/50 = 5.4s

[pulsar stratus]

Too much rounding then :d

[charred wagon]

@feral dew so... MK-1 output if im going into smelters in like..... lets say ones that are in a row?

if its Direct inputs?

i normally just do my MK-3 because i can xD

[pulsar stratus]

@wind spade Thx, working like a charm 😃

Now I just need to finish the overclock UI

[feral dew]

@charred wagon i mean, if you try to split an MK4 belt into an Mk1 belt and an Mk4 belt, it definitely won't give any good numbers.

[charred wagon]

oh no no no haha xD i have spent more hours in this game trying to make my base perfect then worrying about MK-4's

[feral dew]

Fair enough. If you have a 450 ppm belt going somewhere but you need 60 ppm for 4 rod constructors somewhere, don't think that splicing a splitter in, and having a 60 ppm belt coming off of it will satisfy that 60 ppm needed for the rods, it will be a bit less

Same as if you wanted to pull out 120 ppm, or 270 ppm, it won't work in either case.

That's what I was advising that you be aware of, a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that it will, it seems

[charred wagon]

see, thats one thing i wanna understand more..... like how splitters effect the outcome of a run....

or BUS

[wooden rune]

splitters and merges have no speed, they adjust to the belt attached to it

[feral dew]

Buses are an artifact from factorio, they actually aren't that important in satisfactory

That said, you can use them if you want

[wind spade]

^ don't bother with busses if you don't really want to

[feral dew]

Generally, you don't have to worry about how splitters work if you use manifoldd

So since that's the best way to do things, splitters shouldn't hinder you at all

@wind spade are you ever going to publish that list of advice that I gave you?

[charred wagon]

(Manifold) thinks about car and truck exhaust.

[feral dew]

Seems like it would be good for starting players

Our manifolds are a single belt with multiple splitters or mergers on it

[wind spade]

@feral dew I mostly wanted it for my reference, so I don't have to always tell "go ask Vegetable". But yeah, I may reword it a bit for new people and put it in some next SSS

[charred wagon]

i have been playing for over a month now.... but i just now thought i should DIVE into things that i dont understand haha

[feral dew]

That would be for the best I think. Maybe with definitions of things like mabifold and mixed splitter. It would be a really good starter document to read

For those interested, anyways

[wind spade]

but didn't you said that they made some fixes?

[feral dew]

Ah right. I've been a hit strapped for time yet and haven't been able to test

[charred wagon]

I would be Much Appreciated. heck.... i dont even care if its out dated

[feral dew]

But until it's tested, it would be good to assume the worst

[fierce ruin]

M A N I F O L D

STOP USING BALANCERS PEOPLE PLS

[rich tusk]

But the balancers

[feral dew]

They can use balancers if they want. Don't be some sort of inquisitor

[rich tusk]

NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

[barren elm]

Nah I object we need a balancer inquisitor

[feral dew]

Oh god, I summoned tya

[barren elm]

YEP

[wind spade]

yeah we just hate them for it, but they can use balancers

[barren elm]

I heard you from across the stars

[feral dew]

It's best to use manifolds but people don't have to if they don't want to

[barren elm]

Right that's it how do you defeat tomatos

[wind spade]

ketchup

[feral dew]

I'm making bolognese tonight. Call it cannibalism if you want

[wind spade]

well my gf has a nickname "Sushi"
you wouldn't guess her favorite food

[feral dew]

Lasagna

[wind spade]

close enough

[summer field]

Pizza, obviously.

[feral dew]

So, how much lasagna could you fit on a conveyor belt?

I'm safe, right?

I won't be silenced like the others, right Rekalty?

[wind spade]

so intense

still no response

he must be writing the ban command

[feral dew]

He's waiting for us to gain hope so he can crush us all the more

[summer field]

I'm not saying that I am, but...

[charred wagon]

@wind spade .....thank you for making this masterpiece of a Calc.

[summer field]

But it was greeny that made it, not not greeny.

[feral dew]

^

[charred wagon]

wait....what?

[wind spade]

I am not not not greeny, I am just a not greeny

[charred wagon]

oh god im confused.

[summer field]

he's not. (Greeny)

[wind spade]

you are not confused

[feral dew]

You are not not confused

[charred wagon]

no u

[wind spade]

the tool was made by greeny, not not greeny. However I am not not greeny. it's just funny nickname that I can use to troll pple that do not understand it. Not like you

[summer field]

as opposed to the people that dont'nt understand?

[wind spade]

yesn't

[charred wagon]

oh, well... still. its pretty nice haha xD

[short thicket]

say, I´ve been hooked with this game for a while now - but what good are trucks? So far I´ve just build mile long 450m belts from all the ressources and processing centrally

just wondering if I´m really missing the point here

[little anchor]

They're more efficient apparently, not played with them myself yet

[short thicket]

how so?

[feral dew]

@short thicket I wrote a post on reddit that sums it up, lrt me go find it

Or rather, a comment

[short thicket]

cheers m8

[little anchor]

transport more items quicker than the current mk4 belts

[wind spade]

@charred wagon we were just joking. Yes, it's made by me.

well, trucks are good for looks I guess

but not really for anything else

[short thicket]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/b0t9g0/why_would_you_ever_use_automated_trucks_instead/ that might be some thread going my direction 😃

[charred wagon]

....... i dont know if i can trust you

[feral dew]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/c0rsur/comment/er7sv9k

[short thicket]

HAH

Never, and I mean NEVER bring it up in #math-and-meta

alright 😛

[wind spade]

@charred wagon I guess you can check that I am the same person that is admin on the discord related to the tool site

[feral dew]

He's lying

[wind spade]

apdijajdaspodjaspokdsapok shut up ketchup

[feral dew]

Greeny's the admin there

This is not greeny

[charred wagon]

didnt he just get Admin Status not to long ago?

[feral dew]

Yeah, greny got admin on the tool discorf 2 weeks ago

[wind spade]

not on this discord. (And it's a pioneer status)

I mean on the discord related to the tool site (which is linked on the site itself)

[charred wagon]

me haz trust issues now xD

[feral dew]

Don't trust this imposter

Trust tomayo, tomatos are good for your health

[wind spade]

<- better?

[charred wagon]

o.O

[short thicket]

@feral dew I get behind "it´s enjoyable to see trucks", that´s what I figured but wasn´t sure

so thanks for clearing that up

[feral dew]

Thry're logustically the same. You give up time, but gain satisfaction.

God, i hate phone typing so much

[charred wagon]

either way isnt there some FPS issues with trucks?

[feral dew]

Not at all

[wind spade]

there are fps issues with everything in this game

[feral dew]

Typically, that's a belt problem

[short thicket]

unless you go all medium (worked for me)

[wind spade]

anything has FPS issues if you build enough of that thing

[charred wagon]

hmm... i have seen people with huge builds with trucks have worse FPS?

but..... i cant turn off Ultra D;

[dark badge]

heh "Ultra D" sounds like a human pokemon finishing move

😂

[fierce ruin]

as compact as possible

maybe ill post it in screenshots

[wind spade]

Ultra D sounds like [REDACTED]

[barren elm]

as compact as possible
not a double manifold double merged layout

[pine vale]

I have 10 smelters and I need 20 constructor, how do I split all of the 10 into the 20s?

[fierce ruin]

using a splitter

[barren elm]

Depends entirely on your max belt capacity

[tame trench]

so i saw something earlier for 1 terawatt of nuclear power, but it seems the best possible is 266666MW 😦

[fierce ruin]

over clocking as well or at 100%

[wind spade]

@tame trench how did you get the number?

[lethal fable]

!ficsithr hardban @fierce ruin ok

[feral dew]

we have located the lizard doggo

[meager kiln]

Hardbanned Omniantry#6376 (451931739787493377)

[stone orbit]

!ficsithr hardban @tardy needle

[meager kiln]

Hardbanned Omniantry#6376 (451931739787493377)

[stone orbit]

Oof got em again

[oblique perch]

should i add one aswell?

triple ban?

[lethal fable]

lmao

[feral dew]

I think you guys are much more capable than that

where's baine

[charred wagon]

Woah....I come back to check out Meta.... And I see Bad stuff happening haha 😂

[fierce ruin]

2 double bans today, the mods are on fire

[glacial hemlock]

@pine vale just place 1 splitter for every smelter. Space your smelters apart so that their spacing is equal to the width of 2 constructors

[feral dew]

no, Omniantry was the one who was on fire

He got out like 30 BAN ME PLS's out first

[fierce ruin]

why don't people put effort into the ban anymore?

[feral dew]

times are changing

with industrialization and standardization of products, it's become harder and harder for artisan Ban me's to survive in the ever changing market

[fierce ruin]

There was one in General off topic and all he did was post bank messages

I thought my discord app had screwed up or something

[feral dew]

don't you just hate it when you find your bank statement in #off-topic-general

[fierce ruin]

*blank

[pseudo jay]

oh god, i love that bot name

[rain olive]

Would it be dumb idea to plan out entire factory (splitters etc) to assume max-load MK5 belt, just not build enough buildings to fit, so that once MK5 belts are out i can just upgrade layout rather than rebuild?

[feral dew]

that's basically the idea behind expandability

it's why manifolds are so big around here, you can expand a manifold by adding a few more machines and increasing the belt speed

[rain olive]

Also, how much coal did one coal plant take?

I want to funnel 2 of 4 standard coal spots (MK2 250%) into MK4 belt for now, but that would mean losing 30 coal. Want to know optimal amount of coal plants to funnel aside so that I can use most if not all of coal production while still having that 450 units belt for my steel production

[polar sleet]

was it 60/min coal -> 5.4 plants? can't remember

plants do not suffer performance losses of any sort if you under feed them. so basically build plants to meet/exceed highest power spike and then feed in enough coal to maintain the average power comsuption

if you coal miners back up, either drop the overclock to be slightly above what's needed, or redirect excess coal to storage/production.

[rain olive]

My point was bit opposite, how much to funnel out of production xd but i guess answer of 5.4 works still

[polar sleet]

if possible upgrade coal to compact coal for fuel purposes.

turbo fuel is mainly useful for vehicles. but you can benefit from it as a power source until nuclear.

batteries consume sulfur i believe, but not sure what they're going to be used for. vehicles/trains?

[wind spade]

nuclear > coal > compacted coal > turbofuel > fuel

[fierce ruin]

What's better greeny? 20 nuclear plants at 100% or 10 overclocked to 200%?

[rain olive]

@fierce ruin I do not have experimental downloaded but as far as I know any building that does not require fixed location (aka, not miners and geothermals) is better at more 100% than less 200%

the higher the numbers (OC) the lower the effiency (power generated per unit of fuel).

[fierce ruin]

That was my thinking but wanted to be sure

[polar sleet]

@wind spade why is coal better than compact coal? is there even anything else to spend it (sulfur) on other than ammo?

[wind spade]

@fierce ruin 100% plants are better

if you want the same output, you need to overclock them to 246/247%

10 plants overclocked at 246/247% = 20 plants at 100%

[fierce ruin]

I will stick to my 20 at 100%

[wind spade]

@rain olive you still get the same power generated per piece of fuel, no matter the overclocking

@polar sleet

@fierce ruin yeah, the only thing that changes with overclocking generators is that you save some space

[polar sleet]

yeah that energy efficiency value is contextually skewed. sure coal has better energy->energy efficiency. but compact has better item -> energy efficiency, since it uses up a resource that currently has no other use.

[wind spade]

well this table should be referenced in case you want to choose between multiple power sources and you have resources for any of those

also, compacted coal is used for alt steel

you also need sulfur for uranium cell and batteries

[polar sleet]

is the enriched steel recipe better than alt steel? eating up sulfur to make steel, when that compact coal could be used for power seems odd. unless you have nuclear i guess?

[wind spade]

sulfur right now should be used for nuclear, rest for boosting steel produciton

[rain olive]

Assuming you are more coal than iron nodes total; you have 2 copper nodes;
Is it better (for balanced factory) to run 1:1 iron:copper foundry; 3 steel productions? or 2:2 and 2?

[wind spade]

depends on what you want to produce

[rain olive]

motors; heavy frames; oscillator -> computers mostly

got the steel pipe/wire rotor recipe to match steel pipe/wire default stator

and got concrete heavy frame

and iron wire

[wind spade]

I'd suggest using some calculators and checking what do you need with different recipe combinations

[barren elm]

Unless you have a specific goal in mind like a million supercomputers per second, it's really not a game about having a balanced factory

If in doubt just build to belt saturation

There's no "drain" power requirement like in factorio, and the upfront cost of expanding your factory is really low for most machines

Ignore the above if you're aiming for some FPS-destroying mega-factory

[rain olive]

i think as long as i utilize my basic alt recipies it all should be fine then

(alloy iron ingots; iron wire; stitched plates; etc)

[feral dew]

you don't even need to look at any of this stuff and you'll be fine

[barren elm]

Basically what I'm saying is that there's no punishment for having too many structures

[rain olive]

nod

[barren elm]

Except FPS and space

[tame trench]

@wind spade or somebody correct me if I'm wrong, 1 nuclear fuel rod needs 112,5 uranium, there are 4 nodes on the map for a maximum of 2400 per min, 2400/112,5= 21,3 fuel rod per min. 1 fuel rod produces 2500mw for 5 minutes, so with 21,3 fuel rods per minutes we can produce a maximum of : 2500x5x21,3=266666MW

[dusty shell]

donno if this is the right place but https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner what's the "Planner maximum level" used for? Anyone know?

[tame trench]

@dusty shell nuclear fuel rods, miners mk3 and mk5 belts are not in there

[dusty shell]

?

if you turn on experimental release they are

but why are you saying this to me? I'm asking a question if anyone know what the "Planner maximum level" in that site is for

would have been nice with a lil helping page to explain things

[tame trench]

Couldn't see that on mobile aha

I thought you were responding to me sorry

[dusty shell]

ahh

but to your question the mk3 miner on normal node maxed out does 1200 a min I think it was, if I remember right from the yt vids I've seen

and that's on a single node

could be pure can't remember

[patent bough]

That's on a pure node

[dusty shell]

okay then

[patent bough]

Mk3 240 base on normal node. Doubled on pure to 480, overclocked 2.5x is 1200.

[dusty shell]

oh yea it wasn't the uranium it was something else he put it up on

[patent bough]

Unfortunately mk5 belt limit is 660 and mk6 unavailable

[dusty shell]

mk6 is only 900 from old data

[patent bough]

I wouldn't rely on old data. They may change it or add higher tiers.

[dusty shell]

so could be changed

[patent bough]

Yeah

[wind spade]

@tame trench there are only 3 normal nodes

you also cannot do 2500x5x21.3

because 2500 is in MW, which is power per minute

so you cannot multiply it by minutes again

and then by rods per minute

[stuck stratus]

@dusty shell bit late but for the planner level tool, it can limit the amount of steps you see in the calculator; easiest example is popping on computers, and setting it to 3 vs 4; some steps are omitted for a smaller flowchart

[tame trench]

I know it's in power per minute but consumption is 1/5 fuel rod per minute so 🤔

[wind spade]

@tame trench so if I do the math again:

• there are 3 Normal Uranium nodes on the map. Normal node has a yield of 60/min, MK3 miner is x4 -> 240/min, overclocked to 250% -> 600/min, total 1800/min
• one Nuclear Fuel Rod indeed needs 112.5 Uranium, but with alternate recipes, you can get it down to 21.4 Uranium/rod
• that gives us a total of 84 Nuclear Fuel Rods per minute (with a quick check, that we have enough of the other resources, which we do)
• 84 Nuclear Fuel Rods per minute produce 1,050,000.0 MW

[tame trench]

Oh alternate recipes that's the piece I was missing 😄

Time to get some hard drives then ! Thanks

[patent bough]

Need 420 nuclear plants. Blaze it.

Omg the square footage though. If I recall one plant takes up a 6x6 foundation grid approximately. Allowing for error in my measurement and some room to breathe I'd say allocate 7x7 per grid, so 49 square. Anyhow you'd want a grid of 144x144 foundations (ceil(sqrt(49*420)))

That's a massive plant. And that's not counting waste storage

[wind spade]

waste storage can be done by 3 containers per plant on top of each other. Containers use 1 foundation afaik, even if 2 (for the lifts), it doesn't increase the size by much

[dusty shell]

@stuck stratus ty

[patent bough]

So 1260 waste containers. For that matter since you can merge waste from multiple plants you can stack a lot more than just 3 to reduce horizontal space (and keep more waste further away from walking space as it fills topmost containers first

[tame trench]

Seems like a nice summer project 😅

[dusty shell]

hehe

I've yet to begin my building of the buildings I have made the foundation where I want it to be

:/ Just everytime I think about starting it up I'm like meh nah don't feel like it

cuz I won't start it anyways till we can get rid of the waste in some way

[wind spade]

why do you need to get rid of the waste? Just build a storage for it and never touch it again 😄

[patent bough]

Ay I haven't bothered with more than 4 nuclear plants yet

Yeah just build a storage tower to the sky and make a ceiling of waste storage right below the killbox

[dusty shell]

well don't really need the power already rocking 20k with fuel plants

[wind spade]

just place the containers near the output of waste from plants. You don't even need that much storage

@dusty shell well you could use the oil for plastic products

[patent bough]

You could replace those with only 8 nuclear plants yeah

[wind spade]

also, fuel is the worst fuel source, followed by turbofuel

[dusty shell]

I got pleanty of rubber

em plastic

[wind spade]

then you are not making enough stuff 😄

[dusty shell]

don't need to make stuff they're on vacation

they have no demands in the space elevator

😛

[wind spade]

well sure, if you are making 0 per minute, then you can go with any power source. But then what do you need power for? 😄

on another topic: how big are Satisfactory saves?

[crude girder]

Well it's not a fixed thing, mine's about 57mb

Bigger bases go around 100+

Starts around 11mb

[dusty shell]

my save is only 42mb

I started out building vertically, t'is was a god send when vertical belts came

[wind spade]

so let's say 50 MB on average?

or rather like 70 MB?

[river hamlet]

how can it be that my mk2 on pure coal, producing 240 per minute, does not adequately support my 7 assemblers using 52.5 coal per minute, even when fed trough one splitter, giving me 120 coal per minute devoted just to the assemblers

[red gulch]

7*52.5 = 367.5 consumption

240 + 120 = 360

[river hamlet]

sorry

[red gulch]

So you are missing 7.5 coal / minute?

[river hamlet]

each assembler uses 7.5 coal

52.5 together

alsoi diagnosed the problem

i forgot i had my old ass mk1 miner on the coal for some reason

im a fucking idiot ignore my stupidity

[red gulch]

No problem ^^

[river hamlet]

STILL, it should be producing 120 coal on a pure node, which split into two gives me 7.5 coal MORE than is needed to run the black powder factory

i have a minor efficiency problem then

whatever

I'll deal with that later and just overflow it for now

[unborn parrot]

who wants to do some pointless math

[elfin pond]

not me!

[red gulch]

could it be you are using a mk1 convoyer ?

[unborn parrot]

so the map is 30km sqaured

[red gulch]

before splitting @river hamlet

depend on the maths

[elfin pond]

I changed my mind @unborn parrot tell us the math

[unborn parrot]

a foundation is 8x8x2/4

64m2

how many foundations to cover a map hmm

[elfin pond]

1km squared is like 1.000.000 m squared right?

[unborn parrot]

well

yes

[red gulch]

Yes

[elfin pond]

then (30*1000000)/64

[unborn parrot]

30,000,000 m2

[red gulch]

468 750 foundations

[unborn parrot]

divided by 64

[lone yoke]

Something does fit right.. using the alt rubber circuits but... those ratios dont make sense

@wind spade

[unborn parrot]

468750 x 6 concrete

2,812,500 concrete

[red gulch]

That's a lot of concrete

[elfin pond]

2.812.500/100

28125 stacks

[unborn parrot]

28,125 stacks

divided by 24

[red gulch]

2,812,500 * 3 limestone

[elfin pond]

1.171,875

[unborn parrot]

1,171.875

[red gulch]

8 437 500 limestone

[unborn parrot]

divided by 2

585.9375 industrial containers full of concrete to cover the map

pointless math but we have some new facts lol

[wind spade]

@lone yoke what doesn't fit there?

[lone yoke]

the % ratios

They dont match in game

[elfin pond]

2812500/15=187500 minutes for 1 constructor to make that much concrete

or about 130 days

[unborn parrot]

how much concrete in exp build

[lone yoke]

cant get 6.6 Circuits/min at 45%

[wind spade]

@lone yoke how so? Isn't it 2 CBs + 18 Quickwire -> 1 AI limiter in 12 seconds?

@lone yoke oh, are you playing EA, not the experimental one?

[unborn parrot]

190 impure nodes

[lone yoke]

Not experimental

[unborn parrot]

or 85 normal nodes

or 42.5 pure nodes

[wind spade]

yeah, the tool is updated for experimental

[unborn parrot]

so lets just see how quickly we can do it

[wind spade]

I'lll add the switch to stable soon

they changed the recipe in Exp

[lone yoke]

oh

So what should I do? not use the calc? or just micro fix it myself in game as i go along?

[unborn parrot]

so using mk3 miners and mk5 belts we can output

660

[wind spade]

I think the ratios are the same, since the AI limiter recipe needs 2x less circuit boards

[unborn parrot]

by putting all the mk3 miners at 138%

[wind spade]

so you should be fine with that @lone yoke

[lone yoke]

Alright

[unborn parrot]

660x23=15180

[wind spade]

but yeah, I'll ping you when the stable version of the tool is up

[lone yoke]

mhmm ya would prefer to use stable when going to make supercomputers later on lol

[wind spade]

oh, it actually still is. https://stable.satisfactory.greeny.dev

[unborn parrot]

with normal nodes we can 600x46 by using m3 miners at 250%

[wind spade]

there is just not the switch. Let me add that real quick

[unborn parrot]

27600+15180

29180

and we can do 300x6 by using the impure nodes with mk3 at 250%

1800

30980

30980 limestone/min

using the normal recipe we can use

688.44 constructors at full efficiency

making 15 each minute

[wind spade]

are you talking about max concrete per minute?

[elfin pond]

yes

[unborn parrot]

10,326.66

/ min

[elfin pond]

read the chat upwards, lots of math

[unborn parrot]

using all the limestone we can make enough concrete to build enough foundations to cover map

272 mins

but wait theres alt recipes

[wind spade]

33435/min max concrete

@elfin pond I don't need math, I have my tools 😄

[elfin pond]

haha

[unborn parrot]

1,032 constructors

making 22,5

23,235 / min i think

[wind spade]

this is the max you can make

[unborn parrot]

i probably messed up my math somewhere

[wind spade]

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/consumption for the rescue

44580 limestone and 10500 quartz per minute max from the map

[patent fractal]

Does anyone have a design for a 6IN-3OUT belt manifold made from mergers/splitters for unequal demand? Basically I want to take 6 smelters and have them feed 3 constructers on demand.

[wind spade]

manifolds balance unequal demand automatically if input >= output

[unborn parrot]

isnt a good way to fill manifold quicker is slow belt capacity going into machines and keep main manifold belt faster

[wind spade]

actually I think it's better to keep the belts max speed, because then the machine is filled faster

but not sure about that, the difference may be too small to consider it

[wild spade]

I don't think so. I stopped doing that. There is a minor delay in how long something takes "to move out of the way" so using a slow belt will actually slow down the time before the next item can go the other direction (last I heard / saw)

[wind spade]

also don't forget that you should not split to different belt speeds

[unborn parrot]

if somethings pumping in 450 screws a min

[wild spade]

Or maybe I'm misremembering the placed splitter belt segment issue

[unborn parrot]

placing mk1 belts into machines will fill them up quickly

[quick gorge]

Can't wait for MK6 belts... making all this better.

[river hamlet]

does anyone actually use the other calculator btw? greeny's seems so much more useful

[unborn parrot]

and fill the manifold quicker

@quick gorge we literally just got mk5 lol

[quick gorge]

So.
Mk5 is *660 and Mk6 is 900.

[wind spade]

@unborn parrot splitting to different belt speeds is broken is some cases and it's generally not recommended

[unborn parrot]

yeah ok