math-and-meta

[median heath]

So that's you placing value on Oscillators.
Tbf you can make Oscillators from just iron + quartz, so idk if that is "massive."
The question comes up "what else are you using quartz for?"
And in trade for an extra production line -- you get 4x multiplier to your motor output.

Per min is irrelevant because you can set that to whatever you want.

What you need to look at is cycle conversion.
Baseline Motor is 2 Rotor + 2 Stator = 1
Rigor is 3 + 3 = 6.

Multiple both up to 6 and you have:
Base is 6 + 6 = 3
Rigor is 6 + 6 = 12

[cerulean stratus]

Here's why that alt is good.

If you're making motors the base way, you just have to add crystal oscillators, and now you can make 4x the motors!

[mellow karma]

Well fair nuff, like I said it's my first playthrough so I'm still learning

[cerulean stratus]

Is it 4x or is it 2? I can't count

[median heath]

The point I am trying to make is everything has a route that makes it "good" and it all comes down to your playstyle.

[cerulean stratus]

Hey sev, what's radio connection rod good for?

[median heath]

For example: Many people find the Bolted recipes to be ass "because costs more."
Ok, but for the price of cost, you get the trade of massively reduced space needed. -- which matters to some people (like me! 😛 )

[median heath]

What is a Radio Connection Rod?

[cerulean stratus]

I meant electromagnetic connection rod

[median heath]

ECRs? 😄 Love those things.

[cerulean stratus]

My bad, mixed it with radio connection unit

I'm talking about the one here from high speed connectors

[median heath]

Personally I use the Electric Motor alt because it a) increases production and b) pairs SUPER well with Turbo Electric.

In both cases you need ECRs.

[median heath]

RCUs I am a base recipe man.

Because base RCU pairs soooo well with Crystal Computer.

And they both pair together into OC Super alt.

@mellow karma I will add that note:
Some recipes are "ass" in a vacuum, and their power comes with how they combine with other alts in a larger picture.

[cerulean stratus]

Resources are kinda cheap because if you're playing well maxing out a location isn't an issue.

And moving on to another location can be super easy.

So using bolted can save you loads of time

[median heath]

Bolted also SLAPS once you have Steel Screw.

[cerulean stratus]

Time putting splitters and mergers and power and making power

[cerulean stratus]

I still didn't understand why I would use the alt for ecr

[median heath]

?
Start over, frame whole question with more words and I will do my best to answer it.

[tender hearth]

how would people suggest splitting into 5 constructors

3 foundries -> 5 constructors

[vapid gorge]

manifold

[vapid gorge]

for example this belt evenly feeds these 4 smelters

[tender hearth]

it seems like manifolds can be a bit bad because of priority feeding

[vapid gorge]

they are 100% efficient

[tender hearth]

oh okay

[vapid gorge]

manifolds are 'over flow manifolds' , they overflow to the next and so on and fill up

[median heath]

Did you play Factorio?

[tender hearth]

nah

[vapid gorge]

all they care about is

1. a fast enough belt
2. at least enough parts per min

[median heath]

Ok so then that comparison doesn't matter 😄

The main thing is that resources in Satis are infinite. So if you just keep sending them, everything will automatically self-balance given enough time 🙂

[tender hearth]

does it matter if you put a splitter on the last smelter or not

[median heath]

It does not. Most people just do it for "looks consistency."

[tender hearth]

understood thanks, ill have to redo my coal gen layout

[median heath]

Coal gens you say?

[tender hearth]

loool

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

basic coal layouts. With systems with pipes you focus on your pipe layouts

belts are easy, yo ucan do almost anything you want with belts, not so with pipes

[median heath]

Power Shards make it simpler because you can just build 2 Water Extractors @ 1.5 clock and plug one on each end instead of dealing with 3.

[tender hearth]

would this be a good steel layout?

pipe constructors underclocked to be efficient, mk2 miners

[vapid gorge]

seems fine? underclocking really doesn't do anything

the power changes between over and under clocking is nearly nothing

[tender hearth]

better to have overflow in the foundries then?

[median heath]

It's not sushi. Therefore bad. 😛

Steel 😛

[tender hearth]

oh is that when you merge iron+coal to one conveyor and use smart splitters

[median heath]

YES!

You need the mk3 belt first though, just as a base recommendation.

[tender hearth]

yeah im up to mk4 log

[tender hearth]

What’s the benefit? Just smaller footprint?

[median heath]

That is the main one, yes.

I find it simpler to set up too since you don't have to over/under/over/under with lifts constantly.

And for stuff like say, HMFs where you have things line Pipe that are needed in multiple stages of the production chain -- you can just send all Pipes continuously through the system instead of needing to split them off.

[tender hearth]

Yeah at first with my steel setup I was gonna do that but I went with the other setup instead, looks cleaner

[median heath]

You can do it with mk2s, but it's just easier starting with mk3+ because belt max is your limiter.

[tender hearth]

Say you split a mk2 (120items) into 2 machines would you use mk1s coming from the splitter or continue with mk2?

[median heath]

I use highest for all input belts as it keeps flow consistent.

[tender hearth]

Fair

I just try to understand people’s approaches since I would’ve went down a level so there wouldn’t be gaps

[vapid gorge]

using the highest tier belt mostly just avoids mistakes of using too low a mk belt in places

@timber python too close

this is min distance

[timber python]

Ok, thx

[vapid gorge]

@timber python

[tender hearth]

Valid, I probably need to rework a lot of my stuff

[vapid gorge]

as long as you have a fast enough belt for the manifold and enough parts per min? should be fine

[median heath]

Sushi allows you to use lower mk belts to the side if you want because of how the splitters' internal inventory works.
But it is just "faster" to use all max for inputs tbh.

[timber python]

My train signals appear to always want to snap to one side of the tracks most of the time with only one position sporadically where itll allow the other side.

[prisma kraken]

i know it isn't practical, but can't you get them a tick closer than that?

[vapid gorge]

not if you want to make turns without the rails clipping

[prisma kraken]

i'll take your word for it

[vapid gorge]

not sure what to tell you on that , I've heard occasionally that people have had issues placing signals but I've never seen it

[vapid gorge]

you can of course make systems much thinner if you really want

[prisma kraken]

i've been fighting with the signal thing a lot, sometimes you just have to work to get it where you want it

[median heath]

GANG culture? 👀

[median heath]

You inspired me to go back to mixing belt types in sushi 🙂

[timber python]

For now i dont really care, itll be above the ocean anyways. For now

[vapid gorge]

always easier keeping it stacked from the start, but up to you

[cerulean stratus]

Can someone tell me the benefits of the ECR alt recipe?

[neat crest]

what's your convention for which direction goes on which elevation? do stations always go on the top side? etc

[outer vale]

as with many alts: uses different resources which may be more available to that production line (whether that's the raw resources or the intermediates)

[vapid gorge]

one way goes one way, the other the other xD
it doesn't matter which

if you face it one way, the bottom goes away from you, turn around and its coming towards you , no matter your choice

[cerulean stratus]

But what are the advantages and disadvantages?
I see it consumes more quickwire

[outer vale]

advantage: uses x items instead of y items, and/or uses less of z
disadvantage: uses x items instead of y items, and/or uses more of z

(or uses more space, power, complexity etc)

I don't know the recipes offhand, but those are the lenses to look through

[wind spade]

it rarely is about a single recipe, depends on other recipes in chain as well

[meager kettle]

advantage is higher production at the cost of a more advanced resource

[mellow bobcat]

Hello, i am kind of restarted when it comes to fluids and i can't seem to figure out HOW i can not feed my coal generators, is there anyone willing to hop on a quick call and help me figure out please?

It's suppossed to be super basic entry level piping but i can not figure it...

[wind spade]

share images in #1038092680493801533

[meager kettle]

at a guess, use two pipes not one for eight coal gens

[mellow bobcat]

Did ,t thanks.

[mellow bobcat]

yeah but the issue is i can not figure out to get 600m3 flow in a single pipeline, its rather to understand piping

it seems so the water is sloshing backwards after a point

[meager kettle]

yes it is

[mellow bobcat]

How do i have it reach to the end then

[wind spade]

loop it

[meager kettle]

use pump, loop pipe

[mellow bobcat]

isn't this looped?

im getting flow rate of 100-300 with 2 extractors combined...

[mellow bobcat]

Worked like a charm!

Could you kindly explain me what exactly is the problem with me having a singlep ipe though?

[wind spade]

exactly as you said - fluids can backflow

[mellow bobcat]

cos the 600 starts in the beginnig but even before halfway through it starts flowing backwards

[wind spade]

so if you have 500 flowing one way and 100 flowing other way, you have 600 total flow

[mellow bobcat]

but i have a pump pushing it upwards so

[wind spade]

pump only adds headlift

[mellow bobcat]

hmmm

[meager kettle]

not true

[mellow bobcat]

why does it backflow in this setup though?

in the setup #1502270380046287000

[wind spade]

any pipe section can backflow

[meager kettle]

pumps also add pressure proportional to its headlift

which forces fluids ahead of it

so even if you dont have lift requirement, a pump will absolutely assist in flow thru the pipes

and works on gasses too

[fickle cipher]

Does it? I had heard it doesn't in the game. Though it should at least limit to one-way flow?

[meager kettle]

the ingame tooltip only mentions headlift, but its not accurate

which is prob where main confusion comes from, cause people dont even try

[barren sparrow]

I refuse to believe there is a pressure component until a dev confirms it explicitly.

But also if you saturate your pipes, there are usually no issues.

[unique cypress]

a person who looked at the code has confirmed that there is pressure

the entire simulation is basically navier stokes differential flow equations

[median heath]

I am not going to search, but I am fairly positive they did confirm it.
Because that's why it went from "there is no pressure" for years to "there is a pressure component" in the more recent timeline.

[tender hearth]

is there a name for this kind of conveyor splitting

[dusky dust]

That's usually called a "balancer"

(though the term "balancer" can mean a few different things, in different contexts)

[unique cypress]

that is a 1:8 balancer

[tender hearth]

I think that way of splitting items feels the cleanest

[unique cypress]

eh, debatable

it takes up more space than a manifold

[tender hearth]

Yeah that’s definitely true

I’d always use manifolds if they introduced a splitter that lets you choose how many items per minute each direction should have

[dusky dust]

All you've gotta do is wait a little bit and that will even itself out without any manual configuration needed

Honestly IMO not having rate-limiters for splitters/belts/whatever is a net positive for the game. Anyone feeling compelled to configure rates for every single machine would spend half their lives doing so, for no real benefit since you can just wait and it sorts itself out anyway

[unique cypress]

eh, I've played for a while with a mod that allowed that and all the time spent setting splitters ended up feeling like a complete waste
manifolds fill themselves, without any of my involvement

[dusky dust]

You can also prefill the machines' input buffers to more or less totally bypass the warm-up time, though of course that would require having that material onhand

[tender hearth]

What QOL mods are best

[dusky dust]

As with basically everything about the game, "best" is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I don't use any mods. (There's also a modding discord which might be a better venue for it)

That said, a lot of folks like Infinite Nudge to give some more control over decoration

[tender hearth]

What’s it called

[dusky dust]

And Curve Builder is popular for folks who like incorporating curves into their builds

[dusky dust]

The modding discord? There's a link to it in #welcome

Or, y'know, just browse the mods database and pick the ones that interest you

Just 'cause someone else likes a mod doesn't mean you will

[tender hearth]

Sorry what mod database 😭, or is that what it’s called

[dusky dust]

Heh, whatever pops up when you search for "satisfactory mods" in the search engine of your choice. I think it's linked in #welcome as well. (ficsit.app, I think?)

[median heath]

None 🙃

[rocky pawn]

Building an overkill Phase 3 factory

I already have a truck logistics system (tho its mildly less efficient in 1.2 bc I can't make it wait a long time at a station to save fuel)

Im going to start a train line to transport 10 belts of 480 from my off-shore wet concrete rig to the steel factory.

What distance do you guys think, in 1.2, that trains start to become more efficient than trucks?

[median heath]

I'm still trying to get past your first part about making them wait. 🤔

[rocky pawn]

In previous patches you could alter the wait node of the vehicle path at a station. For low volume trucks I had them waiting say 2h before moving on

[median heath]

I don't understand why anyone would do that, but you do you 🤷‍♂️

[rocky pawn]

Im stingy lol, although it doesnt matter for the train/truck comparison bc Im more worried with throughput rather than fuel efficiency

[vapid gorge]

it's impossible to use all the resources on the map, fuel is basically infinite

[median heath]

When you save a path it tells you like "30/min coal" or whatever.
So if you're "saving fuel" you'd have to manually calculate exactly how much the "hey I made it wait" is going to cost you and hope the truck never goes over that.

Or... just supply the 30 and let it run normally 🤔

[rocky pawn]

Tbh for fun Im using biofuel

I gotta do a little bit of testing then to see when rail is viable

[robust tulip]

(posting this on math-and-meta because it takes ages for people to respond on the questions-and-help thing) anyone run into this minor visual bug before? a few seconds after taking this pic, my game crashed

[median heath]

Monitor visual bugs are... meta-related? 🤔

[robust tulip]

had to take a pic of my screen because my screen goes black for a solid minute when i try to take a screenshot

[robust tulip]

well it certainly isn't very meta to not be able to see anything

[median heath]

Maybe playing blind isn't a metaphor and is the real meta? 👀

[robust tulip]

also somehow my screen resolution went down after it crashed

like significantly

[meager kettle]

Kinda looks like how my 3090 rendered when it cooked itself

[robust tulip]

also for some reason whenever i use alt-tab my screen turns itself off for about 5 secs, did that happen with you?

[unique cypress]

that's normal when alt tabbing out of a fullscreen game

try windowed fullscreen

or borderless, whatever it's called

[shut marten]

DON'T LISTEN TO THE MANIFOLD PROPAGANDA!!! Look how cool one can make a load balancer

You and me my friend will be the last 5 people doing a load balancer run in this game

[robust tulip]

the overlapping belts at the front look like intersecting railways

[median heath]

🖇️

[tender hearth]

Spaghetti but Dayum

[robust tulip]

i like it

[tender hearth]

😭

[median heath]

Do it without clipping and you have a point 😉

[robust tulip]

no it's just whenever i use alt tab in general

[shut marten]

its not like its hard to do stuff like this without clipping, it just takes a bit more space

[unique cypress]

between any 2 apps?

[robust tulip]

yup

only started about 2 months ago

[shut marten]

this is a 1:10 balancer

[median heath]

But why are the lights yellow 😭

[unique cypress]

doesn't look like one

yeah no it isn't

[shut marten]

this one is a bit more complex but theres no clipping

[unique cypress]

you can't make one without mergers

[shut marten]

i dont use this factory for anything yet

[median heath]

Which makes the lights yellow... how?

If not being used they should be red.

[shut marten]

theres a merger in the middle of each

[tender hearth]

Probably backed up from not using mats

[median heath]

I cri.

Oveflow goes to sink.
Nothing should ever stop moving.

Yellow lights on production machines are a sin against ADA.

[shut marten]

spliter in to spliter into 2 spliters in to 1 merger

[tender hearth]

Ada can kma the way she talks to me

[shut marten]

😭

[median heath]

She was different prior to 1.0 tbh.

Yellow lights on production and visual clipping are the 2 cardinal sins.

[tender hearth]

The only sink I’ve got going atm is where my turbo fuel is being made, I’m making packaged fuel with unused empty packages

It’s making packaged water into the sink

[shut marten]

as long as no one can see the clipping:)

[tender hearth]

Hide it away from yourself 😭

[median heath]

If you hide it, you still know what you did and are still sinning. 😛

[tender hearth]

Just accept it and be pure sin

[shut marten]

ill be a sinner my whole life if it means i can get a cube that makes 2250 iron ingots per min

[median heath]

Heretic. Burn yourself.

[shut marten]

https://giphy.com/gifs/rgull1t-1ZFVNkogzE4PHFhfgR

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1453071056280616993/1500968086436843701/image.gif

[unique cypress]

that's not a balancer either

[shut marten]

????

[unique cypress]

is that what you have?

[tender hearth]

Ooh is that how you would do 5 machines?

[unique cypress]

or do you have the belt in the middle

oh i drew it in the wrong direction

[shut marten]

its not perfect but

it works

[unique cypress]

then it's not a balancer

[shut marten]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1428700984401461281/1500568955142541352/image.gif

[unique cypress]

a manifold will work about as well

[shut marten]

ye but manifolds suck

[unique cypress]

why bother atp

[unique cypress]

what you built works on the exact same principles as a manifold

[median heath]

Why balancer when you can sushi? 😏

[unique cypress]

there are literally 2 manifolds in there

[median heath]

Lifts who?

[shut marten]

what would be a 1:5 load balancer

[median heath]

You do a 1:6 and loop one of the 6 back to before the split iirc.

[shut marten]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1270281520044838973/1498398069161590995/image.gif

[median heath]

Huh?

[shut marten]

im a visual learner

[shut marten]

thx🙏

[median heath]

Not what is above, this is simpler:

Just do a 1:6 and loop 1 of the lines back.

[unique cypress]

it's bottlenecked

that's why

[shut marten]

something like this?

[unique cypress]

though a bottlenecked 1:5 would work in a 1:10 if the 1:2 stage is first

[shut marten]

I MADE IT A BIT SMALLER

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1270281520044838973/1439379838237544549/laugh-laughing_1.gif

[prisma kraken]

better & even smaller is just clocking 4 machines to 125% and doing a 4-way split

(or 2x 250%

[shut marten]

that would be cool if i had 200 overclockers

[prisma kraken]

well the question is why don't you?

[meager kettle]

all slugs on map make around 5300 power shards

which will prob last until tier 9 when you can just craft em :p

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm still in phase 3 and have about 2000 amassed from just gathering as i see them

but for sam, you are looking at 12/6/3 shards per pure/normal/impure node to fulling utilize it.

plus i see the mk6 belts in that photo. add some other crystals to the time crystal and you have unlimited shards

[marsh bear]

Hi guys, noob problem here. I have a mk3 belt supplying 18 rod constructors (first three floors). The input is backing up but the output, a single mk3, is at max throughput. Is there something fundamental I am missing here; should it not be 1:1 ingots to rods? How is it possible for the input to lag without gaps in the output?

I realise its impossible to debug just from a screenshot like this alone so I want to make sure Im not missing something obvious...

[ionic sapphire]

its easy to check if something is 1:1 by looking at the machine interface

and even if the item to item ratio is 1:1 the recipe time might not be

[marsh bear]

yes, which is my confusion that the input is lagging and the output is full for a 1:1 recipe

If its 15 per minute and I have 18 constructors, that should work, no?

[ionic sapphire]

mk3 input belt is 270, that matches 18*15pm yes

[median heath]

Is this something you built prior to the mk3 and then upgraded later?

[marsh bear]

no, new build

[ionic sapphire]

probably nothing to be concerned about, just buffers being buffers

[median heath]

Upon zooming in -- change all the input belts to mk3's instead of mk1s.

[marsh bear]

the middle belt is backed up, but the bottom one is not.,,

[ionic sapphire]

which floor is being drawn from the most

[median heath]

Wait you said the INPUT was the problem, why is the OUTPUT now the issue?

[ionic sapphire]

im guessing there is no actual issue

[marsh bear]

Sorry, I maybe was not clear. I am trying to ask; is there a fundamental "factory" thing that I am not aware of that could cause the input to back up but the output to be max throughput on a 1:1 recipe?

[median heath]

Pause.

[marsh bear]

This is my first factory type game, so it may just be a logistics thing I am not aware of

[median heath]

Are you having an input issue or an output issue?

[marsh bear]

Input. It is backing up. The output is full saturation

[median heath]

This is saying the output is backing up.

[marsh bear]

Both can be true? 😅 the middle belt is backing up. The overall output is full saturation

[median heath]

Flush the system and see which happens first.

Because an output backup will cause an input backup automatically.

Also, as I said, change your input belt branches from mk1's to mk3's.

[fallow cove]

hello????????????

[neat valley]

https://tenor.com/view/you-cant-park-there-sir-crash-ditch-car-funny-gif-22955218

[fallow cove]

pov: your are playing skywars

[vapid gorge]

@half crater your water pipes keep going up and down, stop that

flatten your pipe there, make a loop, flood the system by underclocking a couple machines to like 50% until it floods
if you're still getting flow issues put a pump on the X

[half crater]

My oil pipeline is a up and down mess, I make it go up 100m at the end, and I have 600m3 no problem

[vapid gorge]

this water pipe goes up and down , don't do that. Flatten the whole manifold

and close the loop, flood the system

[half crater]

Yeah that's what I tried to explain when I said my water was not in a closed loop. I think that's more the problem than élévation, mk2 pumps can pressurise up to 50m, I set them at 25 max...

[vapid gorge]

yes, a closed loop helps too, but having elevation changes within a manifold can absolutely murder your flow

hence 'flatten your pipe'

[half crater]

I see why the elevation can disturb the flow (water need to counter act Gravity), I don't have this problem with oil because I set up 2400m3 tanks, and they act as a flow regulator

[vapid gorge]

buffers, at best, do nothing, at worst cause or hide flow issues

[half crater]

Buffers ? You mean tanks ?

[vapid gorge]

flow issues happen at points outside the buffer and they do not solve those
it's the same reason why water towrers or feeding from above solves things

Keep pipes as simple as possible
don't use valves or buffers
keep your manifolds flat
don't branch your manifolds, go from A to B, no distractions
loop high flow pipes

these are the steps for simple and reliable piping

[half crater]

Haha, I may have got lost at some point

I'll show you something

[prisma kraken]

tl;dr. don't try to be clever with pipes. small and simple is best

[vapid gorge]

there are lots of ways to do piping, the issue is that most of those ways aren't very reliable and often hard to replicate

hard to impossible

[half crater]

This is my first coal plant

[vapid gorge]

coal generators are a lot more tolerant of pipe bullshit than basically any other system

[half crater]

As you can see I was more clever

I set up tanks higher than the manifold

[vapid gorge]

yup, doesn't help

[half crater]

And the manifold is totaly flat

[prisma kraken]

i think technically that gives you a few meters of extra headlift, but ugg

[vapid gorge]

you need to provide that headlift in the first place

but this is a mess

[prisma kraken]

yeah fr

[vapid gorge]

if you want reliable piping don't do all of that

[half crater]

I had like 30hr of playing when I built this...

I didn't even knew how to do straight pipings

But anyway, the 4 tanks are always 400m3 full and fill up at the same rate they empty

Anyway thanks for the advices

Even if I felt like being roasted/getting yelled at 😂

[half crater]

I bought the pipeline floor hole, I closed my circuit by going through the floor, I think it's a good solution

[vapid gorge]

loops do help. And I'm not roasting, just pointing things out.

As for the buffers? yeah at best they do nothing 🙂 that's what you want them to be doing if yo uahv ethem there

honestly better to just clip the pipes through the buffers. You get the looks without the possible issues

[prisma kraken]

buffers are useful to even out uneven flows. except for train stations in the game, everything should be a constant steady flow, so the buffers don't really have any positive effect. they can, however, have a negative effect of causing flows to slosh back and forth betwen buffers

[sage belfry]

not having setup drones before, just to confirm that this won't backup:

starts empty at home port.
picks up 30 shards / min at port B.
drops off shards and picks up 20 alien power matrices / min at port C.
takes APM to home port.

so as long as i'm consuming all 30 shards and 20 APM it won't backup. the risk being if something drops the APM production efficiency the drone could eventually fill up on power shards. is it worth just using separate drones?

[dusky dust]

Drones can only ever go from their home port to a single destination port

A single drone will never ever visit more than 2 total ports

[sage belfry]

i took https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Drone to mean i could link home to Port B and then link Port B to Port C and so on

[dusky dust]

Nope, you've misread something in there, sorry!

[sage belfry]

unlucky.

[dusky dust]

(well, that or there is some misinformation in there. :D)

Anyway, in terms of drones and "backing up" -- the only situation in which a drone will get stuck for awhile is if it's trying to deliver material but there's not enough room in the drone port to fully unload all of its cargo stacks

In that situation, the drone will wait there until it has delivered all of the stacks it was carrying. At that point it'll pick up anything waiting for it in the outbound buffer and head back to the other port

[sage belfry]

i see i see. hmm.

well given i have to use separate drones anyway, nothing to worry about at this point

[dusky dust]

(This behavior is why it's convenient to have a "fuel depot" (batteries, packaged rocket fuel, whatever) with an unassigned drone port or two. Remote drone sites which need fuel can have a "fuel fetcher" drone which picks up fuel from the depot and then distributes to the other ports at the site. After 3-4 round trips the fuel at the drone site will be backed up, and the fuel-fetcher will start spending nearly all its time just waiting there at the site, occasionally dumping another stack of fuel into the port. Having some ISC buffering at the fuel depot is useful since new drone sites will grab those 3-4 cargo loads in quick succession while getting set up)

[sage belfry]

yeah this is what I planned to and already have ready to go, w/ 300 packaged rocket fuel available to be transported. i just thought I could cut down on so many drones if it could be chained but given it can't it doesn't matter much at all, just means i need another port or two in the middle

[dusky dust]

All the ports!

[half crater]

I have tanks set up but I fill them completely before starting, the reason is pretty simple, a buffer is useless if the system is constant, but if the system fluctuate because of slushing, height etc... I don't think it's a bad idea.

As I show on my graph, if you have a water usage of 360m3/min (yellow x coordinate), and a refill flow of 360m3/min (green y coordinate, i wrote speed but it's flow ><) you're supposedly perfectly balanced, BUT if you don't have a perfectly stable flow, you will eventualy slowly empty your tank. Any configuration on the left of the graph, before yellow and red line crossing and right on the crossing is impossible or will eventualy fail, it's pretty obvious as your consomption is higher then refill.

But any configuration on the right, after the red/yellow crossing will be possible IF the mean refill flow stays above the yellow line, anything on the right under or right upon the yellow line will fail.

No buffer system can exceed 600m3/min as it is the mk2 limit, but any system that consume less than 600m3/min, with 5-10% margin of error (540-570m3/min) should be fine with a buffer

[prisma kraken]

hey, have fun with your mathing it out, but after a few 1000 hrs in this game, um, don't be clever with pipes, you'll regret it

[half crater]

I made phase 2 with a 7km oil pipe line with buffers to avoid slosh and I filled every tanks before commissioning my oil factory

It worked ok

I went there for oil and didn't wanted to décentralize my production

So I spent like, what, 3-4 hours getting a pipeline from here to my base...

[vapid gorge]

the pipes themselves are already buffers. Flood the system and you keep it stable
however fluid buffers have a lot of other mechanics to them, and because fluids flow to the spot most empty they are more vulnerable to sloshing.

they also have variable headlift

[half crater]

I never set up a tank as a buffer without making sure it's totaly full, when I do the commissionning of a factory I fill the tanks I have set up

[vapid gorge]

yup and in doing that it has no effect on the system except act as a potential failure point

that's what people have been saying, again, buffers at best do nothing, at worst they cause or hide problems

[dusky dust]

As another game put it: Buffers don't solve throughput problems, they just store them for later. :D

[half crater]

Maybe it dépend on the context, if you casualy use a liquid ressources for a factory, but not constantly, let's say factory B, and you want factory A to keep running while you use factory B.You can set tanks to store excedent liquid, and use the storage as a buffer to run the factory A while B is running, and when you finished with factory B, you set a valve to fill B tanks with the excedent amount

I had a system like this for packaged fuel, I wasnt producing all the time so I had a valve, I stocked excedent fuel and when in need for fuel I used both factory without any problem (6200m3 of stock)

[vapid gorge]

instead of buffering the liquid, keep a buffer of the packaged liquid then

the buffered liquid is useless

and production in this game is constant

[wind spade]

the valve is also pointless 😄

[half crater]

I think it forces the direction of the liquid. I solved problems with valves.

[half crater]

Hey let's just say it's a translation of my insecurities, I want to always be sure to stock things because i'm afraid to miss it

[wind spade]

it doesn't (well, it does, but only in the valve, not in whole system, so useless)

and if you "solved" a problem, it's most likely just been replaced with a different one or hidden well enough that you can't see it, but it's still there

[half crater]

I know a valve don't force the direction of a liquid in a whole pipeline system. But I know for sure that there are no check valve (valve that force a fluid to take a direction) that works on it's own, alone... If the pipes are shared with other outputs, you need a redundancy Somewhere, at least that is what I saw on the field

[wind spade]

given that SF has fixed production and fixed consumption (never variable), there's no real reason to use a valve

"if the pipes are shared" - that breaks one of main rules of piping - keep systems separate, don't connect multiple pipes

[half crater]

?? I share my pipes and it works...

See, two exemple of a check valve, one of them will not work, and the system without a check valve (I draw it without the check valve also) cannot work (it's a distributor with a double effect piston).

You have to place it where it will work and most hydraulic, gas, water or pneumatic system will not tolerate a wrong placement

[vapid gorge]

while the valve stops individual units of fluid from moving backwards through that single point, it still allows backflow to know fluid backwards past it, meaning it's pointless

systems don't care about specific units of fluid , just flow

even if you had infinite valves at every point it probably still wouldn't do what you wanted

[wind spade]

The fact that something "works" doesn't mean that the valve is the one that made it work

[half crater]

That's not what I saw on my heavy residue oil treatment

[half crater]

Even if between the instant it worked and did not worked all you did was placing valves ? 😬

[wind spade]

Yeah, could be just pipes filling up

Which is often how you resolve pipe issues - fill pipes

[half crater]

I'm sure there are easy expériment to check wether valves works or doesn't in satisfactory

[half crater]

That was not the issue

Pipe were completely filled, that was part of the problem

[vapid gorge]

ok because correlation isn't causation

this diagram doesn't say it breaks flow, it just means it doesn't stop breaks in flow

[meager kettle]

Valves used in that way often just delays issues, cause fluids can't slosh back thru them, it gets trapped, so it look like it works, but the result is you get a wave form of flow over time ( a lot of time). tried a valve before each fuel gen (80 total) and it would fill up and run at 100% for approx 2 hours, then it would empty out about halfway, run dry then slowly fill up over course of a few hours, then it kept repeating.

[wind spade]

Yeah, there were tons of them done, it's confirmed

[vapid gorge]

people constantly attribute things with pipes when it's just correlation, not causation. It's like homeopathy

[half crater]

I made a pretty gross heavy oil residue piping that share the same pipes in a closed loop. Adding valves forced the flow to where I want and instead of having fluctuating flow going from 100m3/min to 400 inconsistantly I managed to get a more constant flow

[wind spade]

It's not that they "don't work", it's that they don't do anything relevant and often hurt your production

[meager kettle]

powered pumps are typically just better valves, since they create pressure ahead of them, that directly reduces sloshing potential

[vapid gorge]

often that's just 'time' happening

if you take homeopathic medicine and two weeks later your cold goes away, that doesn't mean it did anything

[half crater]

Homeopathy is a scam, that comparaison is a bit exagerated

[wind spade]

Constant flow is not a thing you need tho. Machines don't consume/produce in constant flow

[vapid gorge]

nope, because, again, time just happens.

or you fixed up a bit of pipe along with the valve

[half crater]

Nah, checked the pipes to see if I had a mk1 pièce somewhere, everything was right

[wind spade]

Sometimes rebuilding a pipe fixes thing

[vapid gorge]

that literally isn't what I'm talking about but go off

[wind spade]

Even if you build it in same place

[vapid gorge]

anyway, enough time beating my head against a wall good luck with your pipes

[half crater]

But i'm pretty curious of why you consider check valves useless, what observations have you made and what are the facts you can prove ?

[wind spade]

What reason would there be for them?

[half crater]

Because for the moment, you shared no stories, expérience, vidéo, or any tangible point about you opinion and I'm pretty disappointed to just get "you know nothing it's just corrélation you hallucinanted"

[half crater]

I literally explained my point of view but anyway

[wind spade]

"No backflow" is invalid tho, as Cobalt shown

[wind spade]

Here

[oblique hollow]

note that this only applies to full valve output pipes

If you use a valve that is set to a constant flow rate and the output of it never backs up, theres a good chance of the valve providing some better flow stability

its just that a valve with no defined limit wont solve backflow

and limiting valves has its own rules on how to make it work right

[half crater]

Hmm, what experience prove this point ? I don't know if it's because it's a vidéo game that the check valve don't work like a real valve, but it's not supposed to equilibrate forces until flow goes backward. Or it's a satisfactory speciality.

[vapid gorge]

don't you get only % of the limit set if your pipes aren't full?

[oblique hollow]

i mean the valve output pipe being non-full

for the input, yes, that applies

[vapid gorge]

so even more so you want full pipes in that situation

[oblique hollow]

either way, i dont know what Maxime's original question even was

[oblique hollow]

at minimum you would need a pump / should use a pump on the main manifold input if your pipe isnt full before that

[half crater]

This is what a check valve is supposed to look like, it's supposed to be watertight. If it's not it's called a limiter or a regulator, not a check valve.

So why the game tell us this valve has the purpose to redirect the liquid to one direction ?

[oblique hollow]

Please note:
None of the fluid actually flows backwards through the valve in the game
By all means, it IS a check valve and a regulator valve both in one

What ends up happening is water hammer caused by the valve shutting quickly, if you want a real world analogue

[half crater]

This is more understandable.

Finaly.

[oblique hollow]

since satisfactory code is different from real pipes, water hammer doesnt really "shake" the whole pipe system, but it causes fluid to switch flow direction on the valve input side

that causes the fluid to flow back into the junction, which can cause interruptions

[half crater]

But in real World you can avoid water hammer by using a vessel

[oblique hollow]

Unfortunately that doesnt work well here

you can only avoid water hammer by lowering fluid velocity in the system preemtively

and by ensuring pipes that are at high flow have no reason to ever reverse flow / have nothing to fight against

[meager kettle]

this is very minimized if you rate limit the input before the valve blocking direction. like here

[oblique hollow]

thats what i wrote before this

using valves with correct limits set can actually be beneficial as they tend to have constant flow

[half crater]

I would also have tought that a tank could work as a vessel in the game (even if it's not the industry standard, a vessel having 2 part that allow pressure change, using a gas to "take the charge")

[oblique hollow]

our vessels never will have air / nitrogen + another fluid inside them, so the only pressure they can apply is the hydrostatic force of the fluid

[meager kettle]

careful, you're shattering peoples viewpoints they harboured since update 5 or w/e that valves dont work :p

[half crater]

Tipicaly a vessel has nitrogen on one side

[oblique hollow]

Fluid mixing isnt allowed in this game

and neither does the buffer have a diaphragm or similar

it really only works with hydrostatic pressure

and that doesnt help much in this case

[half crater]

I know but I have been working as a technician in gaz and fluids system for 14 years now and I cannot just accept a technical fact without being explained correctly to understand

[half crater]

Yes I know I was just comparing with what is the most common solution irl to water hammer

[oblique hollow]

As a Satisfactory pipeline technician of like.... 6 years now, please understand that the fluid dynamics in this game are simplified in the vast majority of cases

[half crater]

That's a mindfuck to me

But thank you for having the patience

[oblique hollow]

the water hammer problem is actually partially related to our pipes having a slight misconfiguration inside them

[meager kettle]

McGalleon is the pipe papa :p

[half crater]

Fun fact: water hammer in french is "coup de bélier" which translate to "Ram shot"

[oblique hollow]

which causes the dynamic pressure portion (the one affected by the fluid's own velocity) to grow out of proportion, often overpowering hydrostatic pressure

so that is fundamentally not comparable to real pipes because afaik our universe doesnt have a bug in it

[half crater]

I can understand that

Fluid dynamics is a hard study subject and fluids are one of the most difficult thing to code

[oblique hollow]

if it werent for some of the bugs, i think our pipes are quite close to being "realest" in terms of behaviour.
At least for being pipes in a video game

[half crater]

I remember fluid dynamics classes, I cannot imagine having to understand the principles AND code them into a game.

Anyway many thanks for taking the time to explain, I may look stubborn but I that's my critical thinking getting on

[oblique hollow]

Im a mechatronics engineer so i had some basic fluid dynamics classes myself

But the game is very much simplified.
At best, you should / would only need the basic understanding of "how does the plumbing in my home work"

[half crater]

I think mine were more basics. And mostly based on hydraulic systems and pneumatic systems,

[oblique hollow]

thankfully you can completely disregard pneumatics here

[half crater]

And mostly forgotten

[oblique hollow]

as our gasses are fully incompressible

and so are the liquids

[half crater]

Wait until I get something to eat, I'll have fully compressible gas

[oblique hollow]

Toilet gas eh

[half crater]

They come in various odors. And colors.

"Ouuuh nice purple of yours"

Anyway my stubborness is over

[meager kettle]

reminds me of an incident when i worked in a lab. a guy ripped off the foulest fart, and then the big boss came in, and he opened a vial and thrust out to the boss and said "here check what kind of crap they send us" and the boss smelling the fart goes "oh my god that foul!"

[half crater]

@vapid gorge you can come back I wont argue again

[half crater]

You really have to hate your boss to to that
He really have to like you to accept that x)

[frosty owl]

And by pipe-balancing (presumably?)

Ops, should have "answered" the following message instead 😅

[half crater]

What do you mean by pipe balancing ? Dividing a pipe to divide the flow ?

[frosty owl]

Splitting a pipe evenly and symmetrically so that flow never has a chance to stop or slow down or backflow (ie: "ensuring pipes that are at high flow have no reason to ever reverse flow/have nothing to fight against" as the McG man said)

I call it "balancing" because, funnily enough, this results in a behavior very much like a "load balanced system" for the machines connected to such pipework (ie: all machines fill up at exactly the same time and rate)

[half crater]

Yeah and if I understood correctly a valve is something the flow will have to fight against

[frosty owl]

Not necessarily (if I understood correctly), but as soon as fluid stops having constant flow on each and every branch of the system, they tend to behave that badly (thus ruining the system compared to what the user expected)

[half crater]

And what about a system with a mk2 pump to pressurise the liquid and a valve just After, set to 290m3/min, and connect it to a mk1 pipe, wouldnt that do some kind of pressure regulator ?

[half crater]

Yeah I have experienced this

I wanna expériment so much now

Trying idea and systems and such

[frosty owl]

In my experience, if each branch never stops flowing ("balanced" pipework was my way to ensure this) then valves work pretty much like we all expect them to (except that they wouldn't be doing anything to force direction in fluid) at least flow-direction-wise...
But given that they need the pipe before to be completely full before they actually output the max flow set into them, that might still not be enough to have them affect flow like we want them to, even in such a system 😅

I've yet to actually test them with a "load balanced" pipework though, so this is all data from my "head simulation" over this interaction 😅

[half crater]

I heard pump are not made to force direction and using them in such way in a piping system can cause fuckery in the system

[half crater]

Head simulation 🤔 I wanna play head simulator too

Wait wait wait I didn't say that

[frosty owl]

I use them to force pressure/direction, kinda like separating a pipe system into subsystems... But yeah, they can create some nasty situations if badly used (like almost everything in piping xD)

Even just placing junctions right next to pumps/pipe supports (ending up in extremely short pipe segments between them) can badly influence flow...

(Which is yet another factor splitting the player base into people who never have this kind of issues or might do, simply because of how they are used to place things close to one another)

[half crater]

Practical exemple of what absurdities I can do. Isnt this kind of bad ?

I have 4 mixers one side and 3 on the other. This is why there is a différence between pipe left and right

There is a world where water was not even my problem.

[frosty owl]

Eh, given that no pipe segment is maxed out on flow, I think that can work as expected
The system has leeway to absorb any stutter and once the input pipes are full the valves should never provide less than what they're set to (I think)

[half crater]

I saw that.

You could share 😭

[frosty owl]

The annoying thing is that... That's kind of what would happen if one wasn't using valves in the first place (system working as expected once input pipes are full), making them kinda... moot? 😅

[frosty owl]

What do you mean?

[half crater]

I saw a link being send and deleted instantly

Had "girls" in the name it was a discord group I think

[frosty owl]

Bots trying to spam scams
Our bots are fighting them for us, so feel free to ignore them~

[half crater]

I had in mind that liquid can force upon itself and create resistance

[frosty owl]

And if you notice reaction being spammed to your messages...
That's just because of my bad touchscreen acting up as I type 😭

[frosty owl]

It can, but if no pipe segment is at max flow, there is leeway to recover from that so the overall system balances out

[half crater]

Fuck

The green arrow right at the red arrow should be red ><

But yeah my valve serve this purpose: trying to force the fluid into the most efficient way. I was thinking what about getting rid of this pipe and having two separate ways, but the pipes are not even (280, 320)

Wait

Am I stupid ? It's correct anyway ><

[frosty owl]

You would expect flow to follow the green arrows on average, but temporary backflow should be expected too...
Then again, the system can handle it so long as it's not maxed on flow (pipes will move more fluid in the correct direction later to compensate)

[half crater]

Oh wait no, it's 240 not 280. Miss 40m3

Or maybe I am the Fullmetal Alchemist, with the philosopher stone I can create fuel from thin air

[wind spade]

Yeah that valve is pointless, fluids will self-balance

[half crater]

There are evidence in life:

Fire may burn you
Water may wet you
Real diamonds are expensive
Valves are useless

[oblique hollow]

For forcing fluid movement, use pumps.

theres a bug with valves that can kill headlift if you put them in series

Always use Valves in parallel

Same for Buffers (if you use them)

[half crater]

My buffer are always derivated, only exception is my oil pipeline, because I was less experienced. But the pipeline is much less exploited

[cerulean stratus]

why would I ever choose the recipe on the bottom?

[wind spade]

Less stators? Different inputs?

[cerulean stratus]

I guess less stators is the only one
as I consume a lot more caterium with the connectors

[wind spade]

Less machines also

[cerulean stratus]

ah, that explains it

oops, numbers are wrong

[wind spade]

The comparison is rarely about single recipe, but rather whole chain

[cerulean stratus]

in what scenario would high speed connectors be better than ai limiters?

[wind spade]

Again, whole chain, not intermediates

And personal preferences can make anything better

[cerulean stratus]

I get it now
it has to be silicon connector included

[serene timber]

what website is this?

[ionic sapphire]

looks like modeler

[limpid vapor]

Not a website, an app on steam

[cerulean stratus]

Satisfactory modeler
It's free on steam

[serene timber]

cheers

[plain slate]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Hu6vuASj6GovFcN4L6DK need help im produing enought for all the wire and constructor from the first line but the last foundrys refuse to fill up not matter what

im using a sushi belt perfectly set up so idk why

[gritty void]

are the belts going into the foundries the same speed as the main belt delivering the materials?

that's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head

[neat crest]

why does pure iron ingot have to be 7 to 13. why can't it be 7 to 14. ugh

[gritty jolt]

becuase if everything made easy math the game would be easy and boring

[median heath]

Because Basic Iron is better?

[gritty jolt]

if its the output number that bugs you just under/overclock your machine to a number that better fits your ratios you need

[ember fractal]

I'm going for 90 HMFs

Will need 300 encased beams lol

[median heath]

Respectable.

[gritty jolt]

go for 45 and then slop your final output?

[ember fractal]

Lots of steel, lots of concrete.
Gonna have to use wet concrete recipe

[median heath]

The output number is 13 per cycle though. So no amount of clocking will get around it being in 13's.

[ember fractal]

Also an option

[median heath]

Nah, just do 90 straight up.

[ember fractal]

I'm thinking 90 and save sloops for my nuclear chains

[gritty jolt]

you can set your output number...just type in what you want it to be and as long as its between 0 and the max a machine can be made that is the output per min it will make

i wasn't saying it was the best suggestion just an option

[neat crest]

the amount a node can produce is fixed. that means when output ratios are ugly if you max out a node with a certain recipe, then your output product has a ugly final number

sure you can underclock it but then you're not maxing out the node

[dusky dust]

(Maxing out nodes is, for like 99% of players, not worth bothering with anyway, of course)

[gritty jolt]

can always add an overflow splitter for any leftovers and send it elsewhere if you don't need it there....boom maxed out node!

or sink the extra for points

it's what i do atm since i haven't taken the time to build my transportation infrastructure yet.

[robust tulip]

are batteries actually good?

as in are they used much?

[meager kettle]

not really and not really

[wind spade]

very decent vehicle fuel

[robust tulip]

so what's the preferred fuel of vehicle enthusiasts all over the globe?

[meager kettle]

in phase 4? rocket fuel or plutonium

[median heath]

Sapphic!

Worked with McGalleon on a new "get 600 Gas/min per platform" design if you wish to see it.

[meager kettle]

sure

[median heath]

Uh... gonna put it in #design-and-architecture

[verbal canopy]

When it comes to turbo fuel recipes I was wanting to know is turbo blend worth it anymore than the other ones like is there a noticeable benefit

[robust tulip]

what's the best way to do the recycled plastic/rubber loop with 600 crude oil at your disposal?

[median heath]

What are your end product numbers?

[robust tulip]

as big as possible

i can just sink the rest and use it for later projects

[median heath]

Because 600 = 1800 total output. You need to choose how to split that between the 2 or if you just want 1800 of 1.

[robust tulip]

ig 2 is more versatile

is that right?

[median heath]

I don't understand the question because I don't make things without knowing exactly what they are for 😭

[robust tulip]

i just want a lot of plastic

maximize plastic

[median heath]

But if you just go to Tools, enable all Alternate Recipes, and disable all resources aside from Oil and Water, it will solve it for you easily.

Just make sure Plastic + Rubber = 1800 and it will keep it inside your 600 oil maximum.

[robust tulip]

kk

don't you get 200 of the resource you don't want as byproduct?

i.e making it for plastic gives you 1600 plastic and 200 rubber?

[wind spade]

no, you can get fully one resource only

[median heath]

If you set Plastic to 1800 you will have no byproduct.

That is the Recycled Loop. 1 Oil = 3 Product, zero byproduct.

[prisma kraken]

that resin byproduct needs to make rubber to push into the loop, otherwise you'll only get 1600 rubber or plastic out

one way of looking at the recycling loop is that it converts yellow fuel 1:1 into rubber or plastic

since you're making 1600 fuel, the loop turns that into 1600 rubber or plastic. in order to get the last 200 out, you need the resin to convert into rubber (since you can make more rubber than plastic from the same resin), and then how that works into the system is dependent upon which end product you want out

[violet turtle]

assuming everything is mk2, if i have two pipes of 300 can i cleanly split another 600 pipe into those two? ive heard pipes are strange

[median heath]

Yes and no.

Stop thinking about pipes in terms of belts.

There are no splitters or mergers. Only junctions.

On belts, items go where directed.
In pipes, fluid goes where it can.

[gentle bolt]

Hello, I need help with my factory

[median heath]

So you basically just need to make sure no single section is being asked to push more than 600, and have an alternate path for handling slosh (i.e. why we recommend to loop everything)

[median heath]

Ask. Don't ask to ask. 💛

[gentle bolt]

Okay, well everything is connected, everywhere has a place to go, but everything is yellow and at standstill, it's an aluminum factory, all pipes and conveyors are connected, dunno what the issue is

[violet turtle]

The fluid gets pumped way down, will that eliminate sloshing?

[median heath]

Pictures.

[median heath]

Nope.

[violet turtle]

im using the 1.2 t pipe sections

doesnt having an empty slot in a production line llike in refineries at the end cause sloshihng

[median heath]

Swap the very first one to a normal junction and just loop the end back to the extra slot.

[median heath]

Why is there a buffer?

[gentle bolt]

I use those to contain excess fluids, and if need to, I can use the excess fluids for other refineries

[violet turtle]

Well its for water, its being piped down a massive cliff thats higher than the building.
I have 6 pipes of 600 planned to go in, but i couldnt put water extractors on two spaces bvuz of terrain

So i have 4 pipes of 600 and 2 pipes of 300

[median heath]

Where is the Silica?

[gentle bolt]

Comes out of the refineries that make the Aluminum Solution, usually enough for both aluminum sheets and containers

[median heath]

Explain "usually" vs. "consistently and always"?

Because from the photos it looks like Ingots are not getting enough Silica.
Which means Scrap backs up.
Which means Solution backs up.
Which means Bauxite backs up.

[gentle bolt]

It comes out of two refineries, then a splitter divides the two rows of aluminum ingots to both of constructor and assembler for the sheets and containers

[median heath]

Are you bringing any in from outside quartz sources?

[gentle bolt]

Nope

[median heath]

Then you don't have enough.

[neat crest]

can priority mergers and smart splitters + loop make a load balancer? am I thinking about this right?

my total input and output is more than the max belt size I have (640, I have 480 belts)

[median heath]

Hence the stall out.

[violet turtle]

Can a mk1 pump handle 600/min

[gentle bolt]

Oh I fixed it! I completely forgot about the water that builds up after making aluminum scraps, oops, but with some pipe reworking I fixed it

[median heath]

Why is it building up?

[gentle bolt]

Didn't have a spot for it to go

[median heath]

Interesting.

[violet turtle]

so whast im hearing is that buffers are bad in every situation except for train/truck stations or for storing end products llike turbofuel for drones or liquid biofuel

and those last ones you could just package it and store it more densely no

[gentle bolt]

So don't use buffers so often??

[median heath]

The sole use for buffers outside of aesthetics is train logistics.

[median heath]

Very yes.

[violet turtle]

Is 480/min in one railcar reasonable

[median heath]

Very.

[violet turtle]

two cars of coal, sulphur, caterium, quartz

maybe one sam

two sam actually

and two irons by it

[median heath]

Trains can handle the entirety of a single belt without issue.
It's when you go beyond 1 belt per platform that you have to start caring about the maths.

[violet turtle]

actually swap the two irons for two limestones

and i only have one sulphur so ill just leave the other one empty for now

[median heath]

I believe in you.

[surreal socket]

Is it just me or are trains super efficient when you have a lot of cars and long distances?

[median heath]

They are good for logistics, yes.
And they go choo.

[orchid brook]

i dont need a pump here right?

also here right?

[frosty owl]

You don't (strictly) need one before going 10m higher than the output of the Extractors. That doesn't look to reach 10m yet

[orchid brook]

i just have a very bad history with fluids

[meager kettle]

IMHO, its good practise to have a pump before lift and one after lift. Been doing it for years and never have issues.

[half geyser]

#screenshots message @frigid haven made these two (admittedly low effot) a while ago... take the top one, add water to reduce ore input, and it may work out a bit better for you 👍

but also building big stuff regardless of efficiency is fun too (plus tearing down factories halfway through their construction in order to redesign around a new process kinda sucks)

[half geyser]

turn on the extractors and see if those pipes fill up.
i'd be worried about this raised bit up here being more than 10m above the extractor output, which is where you'd need a pump.
cant quite tell from a screenshot though, it's very close

there isn't much stopping you from just spamming pumps everywhere though, especially if you have daisy chaining unlocked

[orchid brook]

i could spam pumps everywhere but that wont look good wont it?

i am very close to finishing

after i am done i will do troupleshooting and first place i will look at is here

[raven mountain]

Is this fine for blue crater or is it recommended to unlock another recipe ?

Also I don't know if it's recommended to dedicate an entire region for electricity or do I split it to make plastic & rubber

[unique cypress]

turbo heavy fuel has horrible oil efficiency so if you don't mind wasting a bunch of oil, it's fine I guess

[raven mountain]

But in the satisfactory planner it helps produce more turbofuel than the classic recipe, or is there a trick ?

I'm preparing phase 3 right now so I don't know if I should wait to unlock a new alternative recipe, or if you got any recipe in mind I should try to get

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=kCZmToB8kwLb25jpDcFA
(assuming you don't have blenders available)

but I'd just do this
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=pXslaLoI3Jjm5K6KyviY

[raven mountain]

😰 Big generator number in both cases ☹️

Do I just build them floor by floor or is there a better strategy

[unique cypress]

I mean you can just use less oil

and unless you use rocket fuel, I would not recommend building the generators on floors because then you'll have to pump

[raven mountain]

I only unlocked turbofuel for now 🙂

[wind spade]

Recipe choices are subjective, so pick what makes sense to you

[raven mountain]

• Heavy Oil Residue

• Turbo Heavy Fuel

These are the 2 alt recipes I unlocked, I just wish to make a max of electricity and forget about it for a while, or til i unlock rocket fuel

[wind spade]

Honestly any recipe can give you a lot of power

You can also use some tools to compare recipe chains and see which one makes most sense to you

[cerulean stratus]

Check out diluted fuel

[raven mountain]

I'm at max tier 6 😕

[unique cypress]

diluted packaged fuel only needs refineries

[raven mountain]

😮 I thought it was this one

[unique cypress]

there are 2 recipes

[raven mountain]

This one ?

🫡 Got it

Is there enough harddrives to unlock all alternative recipes

[river night]

Yes

[quaint birch]

Been having troubles with excessive water output when using the electrode aluminium scrap alt recipe, is there a way to prioritize the water coming from the refineries over the water extractors ?

[wind spade]

remove buffers and valves
don't mix fresh and byproduct water

[quaint birch]

well the problem is, if i dont add some extra water, i'm lacking some for the upper refinery

[wind spade]

I'm not saying "don't add", I'm saying "don't mix"

keep those separate (some refineries working just from fresh water, some just from byproduct water)

[quaint birch]

ohhhh okay, got it, so i should have a dedicated system of extractors for this refinery input ?

[quaint birch]

what site is this from

[wind spade]

pipe manual

[quaint birch]

i'll check this out, thx

[median heath]

Are you using Sloppy+Electrode?

[quaint birch]

yes i am, i used the calculator

[quaint birch]

Now my question would be more like : Is there any way to prioritize a pipeline over another ?

[unique cypress]

oh ew please dont XD

that's the worst calculator by far

[quaint birch]

do you have any other which is better ?

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[median heath]

Then the water math is simple.
30% input is fresh, the rest is recycled.

For example, if you're shipping enough bauxite for a single Sloppy Refinery -- split it into 2 Refineries instead. Clock one to 30% and the other to 70%.
Hook fresh water into the one and recycled into the other. Pipes should never touch.

[quaint birch]

kinda wanted to build something fast and rush to get the mk6 and it did the job, i'll optimize later

[quaint birch]

that's a very smart idea, tbh i thought using manifold for the pipes could work ?

[median heath]

I mean.. it comes down to "could work, could have issues" v.s. "will work without issue" 😁

[quaint birch]

let's say for now, its more like "doesn't work, does have issues"

[median heath]

😬

[quaint birch]

i'm having trouble using fluids, wish it was easier but yeah idk how to handle them well

[median heath]

With the above method you just need to prefeed the "recycled" pipe to kickstart the system and then it just runs.

Although, when you hear about our lord and saviour Instant Scrap...

[quaint birch]

good call, and in general, is there a way to prioritize a pipe over another, maybe using elevation ?

[median heath]

Yes and no.
You can make priority systems with certain junction configurations, but not even the devs understand why/how they work.

[quaint birch]

i do have left over hard rives but what ahppens if i scan one of them when i unlocked every alt recipe at the point where i am ?

could they be wasted ?

[median heath]

It won't let you scan if there is nothing to unlock.

[quaint birch]

oh well, lucky me

[median heath]

Instant has the easiest water loop.
Because the output from Scrap exactly matches the input for the Sulfuric Acid.

[near hatch]

I built this and it should match 1,200 iron ingots output but it doesn't
I noticed that the higher the floor is, higher is latency in the "floor merger" is it something normal and is it with the priority merger that it can be fixed ? Or is it something that usually happen when reaching conveyor limit ?

[quaint birch]

what's the current output ?

maybe check your machines and try to find the one which isn't producing

[near hatch]

1200

its 1 for 1 so idk

[quaint birch]

i dont understand, your actual output is the one you want ?

[near hatch]

the higher floor is not producing at 100% because conveyor are overflowing somehow

1200 iron ore -> 1200 iron ingot

[quaint birch]

i can't really see how you put your conveyors, but if there's a problem, split the iron ores into two conveyors and make them feed each half of your build

maybe this will work

[near hatch]

on each floor output the conveyor configuration is this

is having different mkx especially with lower output an issue ?

[quaint birch]

id use mk6 for everything

[near hatch]

hmm

[quaint birch]

the way manifolds work is that your machine will all get what they need, it just takes time to fill the whole system

[near hatch]

okay thanks ill try that

[quaint birch]

keep me updated

[vapid gorge]

@dusk star what exactly are you asking?

[dusk star]

good turbofuel power plant

basically since i dont know all the alternates

[vapid gorge]

plug in the recipes you want to use https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

you'll need to tick the compacted coal and turbo fuel recipes at least in the Alternative list

Heavy oil residue, diluted fuel can also help to extend the oil

honestly though just going to diluted fuel is TONS of power

[dusk star]

why

[vapid gorge]

because it has a very high output of fuel?

going
oil > heavy oil > diluted fuel
is huuuge power on its own.

up to you though, heading to bed

[dusk star]

so doing that is way better than getting sulphur and coal

[median heath]

Diluted takes your HOR and doubles it into Fuel for the cost of water.

[left osprey]

I'm experimenting with satisfactory tools, is there a way to overclock the machines? For example when I hover on the square it says 14 assemblers at 100% and one at 93.33% but I would like to run those closer to 250%

[median heath]

There are no machines?
Tools tells you the total amount % you'd need. How you divide that is up to you.

If you need 1500% -- you can do 15 machines at 100%, or you can do 6 at 250%.

This is why I like Tools. It tells you what you need, now how to do it.

[left osprey]

now that you say that, this is a good approach, thanks!
given that I unlock all alt recipes in the respective tab, will it automatically pick the most optimal one or it should be my call?

[meager kettle]

i think it picks based on some arbitrary weighting system based on amount of resources available of the type

[median heath]

"Optimal" is subjective.
Tools goes by global resource weight which is the condition most commonly cared about.

You can make it do what you want by disabling alts you don't want used.
There's also a beta version that allows you to directly set resource weights so you can tailor the tool to care about the specific ores you do and do not value.

@wind spade do you have the link to beta? Regular one only has versions in the dropdown.

This screenshot also just reminded me to clean up my shortcuts because I don't even use either of those banks anymore 😄

[wind spade]

||https://beta.satisfactorytools.com/||

[naive musk]

Should I Make a nitro Rockets Fuel plant or Make a nucklear Power plant? Im in phase 4 and I want to have enough Power when I go to phase 5.

[meager kettle]

nuclear is more fun

[dusky dust]

¿Por qué no los dos?

[naive musk]

Should I just store The plutonium waste or proces it?

[dusky dust]

I'm personally Team Nuclear too, but Rocket Fuel is fun as well, and a simpler initial production line

[meager kettle]

i'm a proponent of processing it, but you do what you fancy

[dusky dust]

Up to you! Ficsonium is a pretty resource-expensive process, with a big build, for relatively little extra power

If you can live with storing Pu Waste, then Ficsonium is unlikely to be "worth it" for ya, except for the intrinsic joy of Building Another Factory. :)

(I am personally also Team Ficsonium, but I acknowledge that that in particular has a pretty specific niche)

[naive musk]

I made a plan on satisfactory modeler and If The waste stacks to 500 like 1 container can store The waste For 3 hours so I could just build a coupe hundred hour storage

I would use like 1200 uranium

[meager kettle]

can make 28.8 U rods and 12.8 Pu rods with 1200 uranium. which would be storing 128 waste/min, making a indstrial bin last for 3 hours.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, waste storage (especially for Pu Waste) is not a big deal at all

Especially with blueprints, it's pretty trivial to make yourself a big ol' ISC-waste-storage matrix which (when placed down en masse) can give you literally months of worry-free playtime

[meager kettle]

or 187.5min to be exakt

[naive musk]

But just to Make The numbers nice i would just Make 12 Pu rods per minute

[dusky dust]

The radiation at your storage site will very slowly keep expanding outwards, but if you place it somewhere offshore you're really unlikely to ever notice

[meager kettle]

you can use other recipes to make fewer plutonium rods. but if you make less than the waste allow, your waste builds up

[naive musk]

Wait does IT expand??? I have never seen that enywere i thouhgt IT was always The same range

[meager kettle]

to a point, there is a cap

but the more waste the more radiation spreads out yes

[dusky dust]

The more radioactive material in one spot, the larger the "dangerous" radiation will be, but it follows inverse-square dropoff

It's really not a problem if you put it a little ways out of the way

(And yeah, Iodine Filters / Hazmat suit will protect you no matter how much radiation there is. Filter usage caps out at 5/min, so if you automate at least that much you could spend literally the rest of the game with plutonium rods in your inventory and never take damage)

[naive musk]

Ok thats cool

[wind spade]

there's not a cap

[meager kettle]

on the radiation radius? yes there is

it will not cover the entire map

[wind spade]

it will given enough waste

intensities sum up over containers

[bitter pendant]

If I make 75 turbo fuel per min how many fuel generators can I run?

[median heath]

Depends on how you clock said generators.

If you build one there's a little button on the empty fuel slot that tells you burn rates.

Personally, I think burn rate info should be on the generator codex page, but that's just me 🤷‍♂️

[bitter pendant]

All at 100%

[wind spade]

yeah check the gen for burn rate

[meager kettle]

used scim to add waste. This is normal radiation, + 1 million plutonium waste and +10 million plutonium waste. radius looks same between 1 and 10mil to me

[wind spade]

yeah it scales logarithmically

but it does scale

(not to mention that SCIM's radiation is afaik not exact)

it's just an estimate

[meager kettle]

100 mil for the fun of it

pretty sure theres a cap

[wind spade]

the whole map is blue

so there's radiation

[median heath]

100x Radiation modifier in 1.3? 👀

[bitter pendant]

The burn rate for turbo fuel is 7.5 per min

[river night]

a log scale gets real slow the bigger your value gets, so you dont even need a cap, it just naturally behaves how you would want it to

[meager kettle]

100m vs 1m. i'm not arguing it doesnt expand, but there is a cap on how much

[wind spade]

the blue color is radiation

[meager kettle]

i'm aware

radius is more or less identical

actually maybe not

its hitting that diagonal cave with 100mil

[wind spade]

according to formula given directly by devs, there's no cap

[meager kettle]

well that makes storing waste even dumber to me :p

[wind spade]

you won't hit that in several years

[river night]

storage is always a calculation of how many hours of runtime the save even needs for it to be a problem

[meager kettle]

just diffrence between normal radiation and 1mil waste is huge tho

and 1 mil waste aint a lot

[wind spade]

yeah but problem is "lack of storage", not "radiation"

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/m96kuy/how_to_irradiate_the_whole_world/

[dusky dust]

Oh lol, I hadn't realized that that ~3-year number also involved actually storing waste in a grid around the world

[river night]

that was an excercise in spreading out the radiation as far as possible, if you stack it all in a corner of the map, sure that corner is irradiated, but for it to be a bigger problem then that takes longer then the save will be functional 😛

[wind spade]

well it's uranium waste from U3, so plut waste may be different

[wind spade]

yeah, it's also said in my comment somewhere

[dusky dust]

Yeah, and U Waste accumulates a lot faster now than it did in U3

Still, as always: nuclear waste storage really isn't a problem in Satisfactory

(with the potential caveat that your storage grid will probably have to be awfully chonky if it's U Waste you're storing, due to the production rate)

[meager kettle]

hm we can make slightly more waste now, but doesnt change numbers awhole lot

[river night]

what annoys me the most, if i want to build up waste recycle later, because its a tier later etc, do i overbuild the recycler so it can slowly burn down the storage? do i expand the power plant once the storage is empty? do i let the recycle idle once the old stockpile is empty? probably would go for expanding the power plant option

[meager kettle]

max waste now is 2520, but if you sloop the rods, it could go to 5040, which would mean its just over one year to cover the map :p

[meager kettle]

you'd have to overbuild it yea, to cover whats being made + what you have stored

[wind spade]

the calculations are mostly about the amount of waste needed, so the only relevant property is the radiation value for waste and calculations can be redone this way

[prisma kraken]

what i'm inclined to do is start up the uranium power plant and keep reactors flipped off until i need them turned on. as i get the recycling built, i don't have all the reactors on yet, so i let the recycling work down what waste i have stored. when that's all gone, i let the full power plant go at full force

those t7&8 unlocks aren't that far away from one another

[vapid gorge]

define 'better'
adding coal and sulfur basically converts the coal and sulfur to more oil
but its more work and you have to transport it in

while you can always just make more diluted fuel where the nodes are w/o importing anything

so up to you

[fresh escarp]

holy moly

[deep gust]

I used the exact same math to build my rocketfuel plant. Produces 144k MW i guess.

[fresh escarp]

yeah

[deep gust]

Ngl, this will take a while to make.

[prisma kraken]

i find it better to go with turbo blend fuel -> default rocket

for a single sulfur node and 3 oil nodes:

[neat crest]

why do caterium circuit boards have to have such terrible ugly ratios. why do 7s exist in this game. remove all 7s from recipes

[prisma kraken]

don't neglect that fricking 11 in silicon cb

[neat crest]

also ugly and evil.

[prisma kraken]

the truth

[neat crest]

it's not like its harder to use, all it is is ugly. they could easily change the 7s to 7.5s or 6, and 11s to 10 or 12 and the game would be much more satisfactory

[prisma kraken]

there's ways of managing it and disappearing the 7's, but it really takes some though

[dusky dust]

Embrace clocking! Numbers don't matter, you can get whatever numbers you need. :)

[prisma kraken]

yah, but clocking doesn't really disappear 7's

[dusky dust]

I'm happy so long as I can hide those 7s behind the fifth decimal point

Not on the machine display? Doesn't exist

puts fingers in ears, closes eyes

[neat crest]

i want rational number inputs and outputs without having to make 7 systems worth of a thing

[prisma kraken]

how's this for a start

[prisma kraken]

another phase4(ish) example

[fresh escarp]

💀

💀💀💀💀

i would need 4896 reactors
i think it's a tad overbuilt

[sharp yew]

are you trying to max nuke fuel or something 😭

[fresh escarp]

i was until i brought it down to 400 reactors

[sharp yew]

goes to show how many resources are actually on the map

[fresh escarp]

yeah especially when you have 34 pure uranium nodes

should i do 400 or 500 reactors to make it a clean 100 rods/min

[sharp yew]

500!

[fresh escarp]

alright
(it'll be 504 because that's 170 manufacturers)

[vapid gorge]

34 pure nodes?

[meager kettle]

advanced resource rng tends to go kinda heavy on the uranium :p i had 57 pure uranium nodes in one :p

[prisma kraken]

does the number vary that much?

[meager kettle]

yea

seen from 33 to 57

across around 20 diffrent seeds

[prisma kraken]

really it should be more like 5-10

[meager kettle]

yea

i am not opposed to just editing the nodes in scim tho

[deep gust]

I will have to check which one i used, you are free to explore my save if you want 😄

[radiant shuttle]

What app do you use for this

[frosty owl]

RuneFactory

[wild atlas]

how many ficsite trigons should i aim to make per minute for my final factory

[wind spade]

don't ask in multiple places 🙂

[mint coral]

Figure out what your are building first. That will tell you what you need

[neat crest]

for smaller scale stuff I actually figured out that if you're willing to add copper, you can do mostly oil & caterium based Computers by mixing Caterium Circuit Boards (in multiples of 7) and standard circuit boards for the remainder. the copper goes to sheets for the standard boards plus fused quickwire to cut the very heavy QW usage. all this gets you fairly rational input numbers

[abstract thorn]

Does anyone have any resources for learning to understand and calculate train throughput?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, both cat computer & silicon hsc do okish when you start with a multiple of 7 manufacturers

as for dealing with quickwire volume, fused quickwire assemblers can be direct belted into other things and cut down on the logistics considerably.

[dusky dust]

!wikisearch train throughput

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=train+throughput

[dusky dust]

^ there's a wiki article about it which is presumably what you want

Though in vague terms: it depends on two factors: the stack size of the item you're transferring, and the round-trip time of the route.

Personally I never bother actually calculating it; I just sort of vibe the initial number of freight cars and watch the route once I have it set up. If it turns out I was short on cars, I'll add another, etc.

Since you need to know the roun

'cause you won't specifically know the round-trip time until you set up the route anyway, doing the calculations always feels a little pointless to me. :P

(Though the formula is good for setting some bounds. Like "so long as the route is <= 5 minutes I can get away with this number of cars" etc)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i just go by 600/min per car for ores as the yardstick, knowing that 200 stack items are double than at 500 stack items are 5x that

for extremely short trips, you can go a bit higher, but you really need to measure it empirically

[abstract thorn]

got it. Thanks guys!

[prisma kraken]

the math of it all is calculatable based on the stuff the wiki lays out, but it is a lot of math that is pretty error prone and if you just follow the common sense rules i listed, you save yourself a lot of effort

the numbers i listed assume a 5-6 minute round trip time. if you're doing long hauls, its best to time and test what you'll get

any math of it you do assumes that there isn't congestion on your rails, so doing the calculations fastiduously only yields you a upper bound max throughput number anyway, so meh

[wind spade]

In addition to the answer above, I'd recommend to not calculate it and instead just do something simple like "one belt/pipe per car", and add another train if it is not enough

As going close to the limit can be challenging especially with shared tracks

[prisma kraken]

yeah, for moving raw ores, i really like to plan on 600 per car and either double the length of the train or double up the trains for endgame 1200/min rates

[median heath]

@meager kettle if you get time today and are willing, I would like to go down a Rocket Fuel rabbit hole.

[meager kettle]

Hm?

[median heath]

So you are a Nitro Rocket Fuel enjoyer, yes?

[meager kettle]

Yea. I've used it some

[median heath]

What do you do with the Compacted byproduct?

[meager kettle]

Ship it and make steel with it. And/or turbo fuel for turbo diamonds

[median heath]

Fair.
I was looking at "more power" from it options.
And you actually get a really good return if you take the byproduct from Nitro and use it to make regular RF (looping that byproduct back as well).

[meager kettle]

Yea. But I like to do nuclear too. So power not really an issue

[median heath]

I am curious as to how much gain there is from "just put the Compacted directly into Coal Gens" though. 🤔

[meager kettle]

And the 1:2 iron to steel is kinda good. And you need a shiddload of diamonds later on

[median heath]

Like if you make 500 RF, how much more power does the byproduct convert to if just burning it?

[meager kettle]

Iirc was a piss in missisippi

Was something like 8GW from 4800 rocket fuel burning it in coal gens

While the rocket fuel makes 288GW

[median heath]

4800 ROCKET FUEL? 👀

[meager kettle]

Yeah. Two pure crude nodes and 3200 sulfur

It's what's easily available in blue crater

I really like the compacted steel recipie :p

2 iron +1 compacted coal = 4 steel

[median heath]

I want to like it. But they need to switch the cycle time between it and Solid.

Every other recipe trade-off is "more resources, less space" vs. "less resources, more space."

Solid, while granted requires Smelters, has the fastest production of any Steel while also just costing less outright...

Compacted is the most expensive if you factor sulfur in, and ALSO TAKES THE MOST SPACE?

[meager kettle]

Yea but the compacted coal is free as a byproduct

[median heath]

Like... WHAT?

[meager kettle]

And it really boosts steel

[median heath]

Yeah but 10/min baseline per Foundry is atrocious when compared to... every other similar alternate tradeoff in the entire game.

[meager kettle]

And it's damn enticing on my advanced resource world where I got nearly 2x the sulfur to iron :3

[median heath]

I will never random so 🤷‍♂️

[meager kettle]

On a normal world there's not enough sulfur to do it. But the byproduct is useable

[median heath]

Solid and Compacted should just swap imo.

It keeps Solid being the simplest "boost conversion rate" but taking more space the way all other similar alts work.
And gives Compacted a reason to be used outside "I have random nodes."

[meager kettle]

Compacted is more steel per iron and coal at cost of sulfur

[median heath]

Yes. Which is why it shouldn't also be "at the cost of massive space" too.
That's my point.

Compacted isn't a trade-off.
It's "less iron and coal in exchange for worse everything."
Instead of the standard "this for that" trade most stuff has.

[meager kettle]

Foundries stack pretty easily

[median heath]

I'm going to just say caio here because we clearly are never going to agree 🤷‍♂️

[meager kettle]

Yea. Prob cuz I build several layers of them. So actual footprint isn't any larger. It's just a bit taller

[median heath]

Taller is larger...

That is how 3D space works 😭

[meager kettle]

Yea but not in same way

Making like 60 motors and 30 hmf in a 9x9 foundation tower makes it feel really compact. Even if it's 250m tall

Vs doing it flat on a 100x100 foundation area

Also if you have refineries in your factory. Since they 32m tall. You can put 3, maybe even 4 foundries on top of each other to reach same height :) so it makes building some verticality just feel more filling

[prisma kraken]

compacted is really an endgame recipe. the amount of power you need to even convert 1 pure iron node's worth into steel is really crazy and chances are you'll be OC'ing it all to 250% which makes it take even more power.

nothing wrong with that in and of itself, and the output for the input is honestly one of the best ratios in the game, but there's a definite 'not yet' in using it. Unfortunately, by the time you get to the 'yet', often you've built out all your steel needs already and its looking tempting to use the rf/if byproduct with it, but the only thing that that steel is then useful for is making cannisters for turbo diamond

idk, I'm still trying to figure out a good use for that byproduct. tossing it back into tf seems like a better play though.

[meager kettle]

Power not really an issue at that point

[bitter pendant]

I dont know were to ask this but are any of these any good?

[prisma kraken]

out of them, i think coated iron plate, copper alloy, adhered iron plate, hor, dilluted packaged fuel are the ones to prioritize, but it all really depends on which recipe helps you more now

[queen slate]

Yes, but you should choose whatever fits your plan/needs better.

Also 1.2 resource distribution might shift preferences.

[median heath]

All of them.

[prisma kraken]

it doesn't really, i'm finding the same recipes are just as good what does shift preference with recipes is your power multiplier and recipe cost multiplier

[wind spade]

All recipes are good

[rocky pawn]

It depends on what youre trying to achieve basically. Diluted Package Fuel is a must if you want to maximize fuel production without waiting for Phase 4, for example

Also Heavy Oil Residue is probably the best alt in the game for oil products

[wind spade]

*by some metrics

[bitter pendant]

I'm not to fust on fuel right now has I just made turbo fuel production line that makes turbo fuel and packaged turbo fuel

[rocky pawn]

If youre all set of power, go for the pure iron one 🙂

[prisma kraken]

pure iron is pretty meh. the other iron recipes are often situationally better

[rocky pawn]

i like water as a magical multiplier tho, pretty funny

[vapid gorge]

well if your goal is TF then look at what can be used with it, Heavy Oil Residue and Diluted Packaged Fuel for example

but you're never locked out of recipes in the game, you can always get them all.
and you should, they are all useful

[ember fractal]

Compacted steel is good byproduct of rocket fuel production

But Yah, at that point you probably have tons of other steel already being produced

[unique cypress]

Only if you're using nitro rf
With default rf, you can recycle it and save massively on sulfur and coal

[median heath]

With Ionized, you can eliminated sulfur and coal entirely 😁

[ember fractal]

Yeh I meant nitro rf
It's a simple set up

[prisma kraken]

with default rf, i like using turbo blend.

i don't think ionized fuel is power positive on 5x power

on 1x power, it barely kicks off enough extra to be worth the effort

perhaps dark ion has a better yield than the default ion fuel, i haven't looked closely at that

[unique cypress]

lol no

it's net negative even at 1x

[prisma kraken]

that recipe has always seemed kind of bad to me, which is why i haven't explored it as viable

[unique cypress]

it's decent if you want a couple per min for the jetpack. but that's literally it.

[prisma kraken]

yep, even default ion fuel isn't great for power, but it is a means of creating dm crystal and break even on the power for it

i did some analysis of that and found that you really are better off making more ai expansion servers to do that anyway

[unique cypress]

that costs sam tho

[prisma kraken]

everything costs sam in phase 5, lol

[unique cypress]

you can make DMCs without SAM

with oscillators and power shards

[prisma kraken]

if you're just trying to get to the end of the game, setting up a little powershard production line will give you what you need for the elevator on 1x, but you can't really turn that into a continuous production thing without a sink for shards

[neat crest]

steel (iron) pipes. satellite factory or make em on site?

[vapid gorge]

Either way works - whatever you find more convenient. It’s generally simpler to move fewer parts per min though

And coal+iron is extremely common. You could save a ton of resources with the base recipe

[wind spade]

Always make things onsite

[prisma kraken]

especially for stuff like iron pipe or concrete where a simple factory boils down the raw resources so significantly, you end up shipping a lot less if you decentralize, plus it gets something made in a spot where you likely have extra space

[median heath]

@meager kettle on review, the single, regular buffer design for gasses doesn't fully hit 600 because the tiny buffers don't hold enough.

So if you want to do it with 1 buffer you need an IFB. Or you can use 2 parallel regulars:

[oblique hollow]

(or you use a fluid truck station as a buffer in 1.2 and avoid gas physics shenanigans)

[median heath]

🤫 😛

[meager kettle]

Good to know

prob will forget by the time i get there, progress is slow with how busy works keeping me. But a girls gotta eat, so not complaining :p

[median heath]

I feel like the sole reason this works is because 1.2 removed the docking "box" entirely.

[oblique hollow]

it also looks cool tbh

[median heath]

Yeah but if you try this with normal stations in 1.1 you get clearance error.

[oblique hollow]

and in theory, if you rotate them a bit you could either now pipe the fluid out or just transport it with the trucks

[median heath]

That being said... you could just do this for both fluid and freight in 1.2 to make all train platform designs identical..

[oblique hollow]

so honestly, win-win for fluid trains and fluid trucks