math-and-meta

[cinder silo]

@frosty owl have you ever had a sushi system go just wrong enough that in spite of a regular splitter, pretty much all of one product only goes out of one belt and another out the other?

[frosty owl]

I don't think I understand what you're describing
"In spite of a regular splitter"?

[cinder silo]

Last night, I re-onlined my turbo motor production, a mixed feed belt for some reason only sent the rcu to the right, and only the cooling units went to the left, I have no clue why.

It acted like a smart splitter was sorting and it made the whole facility just not work.

[frosty owl]

You have a mixed belt being split by a regular splitter...?

[cinder silo]

At the entry point yes, it goes to two lines of smart splitters feeding into two lines of manufacturers, the single belt comes from an adjacent building.

My final solution to fixing the disaster was not elegant.

[frosty owl]

Oh boy...
Well, I think you just found out the worst-case scenario as to why that can be a bad idea

[cinder silo]

Yeah heh, under the floor now there are two smart splitters isolating the products and sending on to two mergers which made it actually work.

[frosty owl]

Eg: if you split a belt carrying item A and B (perfectly alternating) in 2 with a normal splitter, the output will be two single-item belts (ie: A will go one way, B will go another)

[cinder silo]

That's what I was seeing.

[frosty owl]

Or, you could use a programmable splitter to do the balancing!
That's one of their advantages over other splitters

[cinder silo]

Due to my build this save being seriously scaled up, there are fewer mixed systems in it, it just happens to be the few areas I used them, I have had breakdown.

[frosty owl]

Yeah, thus just so happens to be the perfect usecase for programmable splitters, given the layout and objectives you have

[cinder silo]

Thinking back, my earlier mixed systems fed into single rows of machines, so I never saw the splitter behaviour play out.

[frosty owl]

This might prove useful, here: https://youtu.be/EiQuFIx9Rlg?is=fAqmBgqfs2cFntmV

[frosty owl]

It's just the act of trying to "split" sushi with normal splitters that can be quite tricky

[cinder silo]

Hmm, I might move the merger fubar under the floor and have a single riser, my current design isn't pretty.

[frosty owl]

The programmable approach removes the need to filter the items (ie: no mergers), so you could just replace the original splitter you had with a Prog Splitter, upgrade the output belts and be done with it

[cinder silo]

I'll try that, my original layout did "look" cool.

[thick plank]

Anyone have any explanation why this machiene isnt producing?

Ok I think I figuered it out. I guess that its only 5.99999 fuel and no additional fuel was produced because the rest of resource nodes interruptted the cycle and the fuel loop clogged

[meager kettle]

it only shows one decimal point, so 5.95-5.99 would be rounded up to 6

[thick plank]

this is so increaibly frustrating. I picked the game back up yestterday and 75% of ttime spent until now was just fixing production lines that where broken by the resource nodes updatte

[warped tendon]

Anyone who has a rocket fuel plant in the blue crater - How much power do you make and how? From running calculations I found I can make seemingly 210k~ power? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=IAADsY4eLE4Beo1x29ec

[warped tendon]

Good luck man. Due to all those changes I’m sure you’re not done. It may be easier to reset but considering the time you’ve already spent I assume that’s not something you wish to pursue.

[warped tendon]

(assuming my numbers are correct.)

[meager kettle]

also this can happen if you're near with the hoverpack on, common bug with hover pack

[thick plank]

Nah, I luckily had nearly all of my production in the grasslands wich werent really changed

[meager kettle]

i like clocking up the fuel gens to 120% or 240% with rocket fuel to get an even 5 or 10/min use. I just like even numbers more :p

also works well when going from fuel to rocket fuel

if you clock the fuel gens to 50%, build 60 for a 600/min pipe, then when you get rocketfuel, just make that and put it into same pipe as fuel and clock em from 50% to 240% minimum effort to redo power plant

[warped tendon]

The rocket fuel gens are all clocked to take 10/min. Just didn’t run that same number with the turbofuel part

If anyone sees the notes photo and wants clarification on things do ask. I usually abbreviate or do random calculations out of nowhere

To be fair I didn’t run the numbers with the rest of the oil in the linked factory. I honestly forgot once I realized I hit the limit of the sulfur I had that I had oil left. Maybe I should try importing sulfur or just running the rest of the oil into diluted fuel.

With imported sulfur and nitrogen gas I can easily up the number of RF made. I’ve not even hit half of the coal in the crater used.

There is nearby gas I can bring making cooling systems. It’s an old factory that needs to be remade anyways. I know of sulfur near my “home base” that I can take aswell. I’ve just gotta figure out what’s better, diluted fuel vs using those materials

The cost to import the additional 300 sulfur/min almost feels not worth it. To be fair I haven’t ran the numbers fully

[warped tendon]

Without making extra diluted fuel I’d make about 30.1kMW.

[mint coral]

thats the power generation of my entire grid ^_^

[warped tendon]

By using diluted fuel with the remaining oil I can make in total an extra 73.8kMW

[meager kettle]

gw*

[warped tendon]

gw is used before reaching 100’s of kmw?

[crude zodiac]

no, 1,000mw is a gw

[meager kettle]

kilo-mega is not a thing. its giga

[warped tendon]

Well damn

[frosty owl]

Tbf, the devs always advertised map changes (eg: changes in nodes or terrain) well in advance... But there might be a lot of info piled up, depending on how long ago you last played 😅

[wind spade]

GW to MW is same as GB to MB

[thick plank]

yeah, I played last before 1.0 got dropped

[mint coral]

Lots of changes since then.

Node locations, new build modes for belts, disassembling crash sites, more flora destruction, and more

[thick plank]

Im aware, I did play on other peoples worlds just not on my own

[mint coral]

Then you have played since 1.0 dropped 😛

[thick plank]

just not in the world that actually matters

[mint coral]

But the puppies and kittens

[ionic sapphire]

so 1024 ?

[outer vale]

that's GiB to MiB

[wind spade]

no, 1 GB is 1000 MB

what you are thinking about is 1 GiB which is 1024 MiB

[ionic sapphire]

commonly being spread misinformation yea

[latent shard]

Simpler ?

[wind spade]

yeah that's wrong

[latent shard]

1 B (byte) = 8 b (bits)

[wind spade]

sure

[outer vale]

and 1000B = 1 kB

1000 bytes ain't a gigabyte lol

[gray kraken]

nooo this conversation all over again

[ionic sapphire]

i love it

[wind spade]

also wrong

[gray kraken]

showing images without any source to corroborate with their credibility

sure

[wind spade]

what about using up-to-date sources?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units

Unit multiples of the byte are defined in a metric system based on the powers of 10, following the International System of Units (SI), which defines, for example, the prefix kilo as 1000 (103), as well as a binary system based on powers of two. Historically, the binary system used the identical prefixes of the metric system, but quantified differently. The nomenclature of the latter system has led to confusion. Systems based on powers of 10 use standard SI prefixes (kilo, mega, giga, ...) and their corresponding symbols (k, M, G, ...). The modern binary system uses prefixes kibi, mebi, gibi, etc., and their corresponding symbols (Ki, Mi, Gi, ...). Historical usage for the binary system still uses the prefixes K, M, and G.

[unique cypress]

Huh, it's KiB, not kiB

[ionic sapphire]

yea just in case it wasnt inconsistent enough yet, they put that in there to help

[somber sedge]

we are talking about units?

[mint coral]

because we need to at LEAST three times a week or the internet would decompile

[ionic sapphire]

gotta keep the AI up to date

[oblique hollow]

Iirc its kibi and mebi because its kilo binary and mega binary

To avoid muddling of what the normal prefixes stand for and to keep their meaning consistent

[wind spade]

and windows isn't helping with their attitude to not change to what rest of the world uses

[oblique hollow]

Technically you could use that prefix for other stuff..

like "Im making 50 MiW "

[wind spade]

so 52.4288 MW 😛

[meager kettle]

Mebiwatts

[wind spade]

good idea for Tools' april fools version

[oblique hollow]

Gibiwatts my beloved

[meager kettle]

show all power in that and confuse people with the diffrent numbers?

[wind spade]

indeed

[oblique hollow]

Display it all in TebiWatts

[meager kettle]

it would be funny, and it would make me mute this discord for a day o two :p

[wind spade]

I already get tons of pings for "have you been hacked" or something

when current april version is shown

[cinder berry]

Are u a game dev or only tools dev

[wind spade]

Tools dev

[cinder berry]

Yes. Yes we do.

[mint coral]

see even Entropy agrees lol

[tight karma]

am I going crazy? I thought i saw someone aving a pure fuel factory and a pure plastics factory (as in without either as a byproduct) but i cant find the recipes in modeler (even though they sent a screenshot of modeler)

[unique cypress]

you can make plastic and rubber without byproducts, but not fuel

[crimson moat]

[Heavy Oil Residue] recipe makes diluted fuel, but yes with some resin byproduct. Not as much.

[Recycled Plastic] and [Recycled Rubber] convert fuel to plastic/rubber without byproduct

If you're doing both, you can pass the byproduct from the fuel into the other production line

[tight karma]

I kinda wanna keep the two seperate

plastics an fuel

esp since I'm just gonna burn the fuel straight away

[crimson moat]

the ratio is like 10 rubber worth of resin per 80 fuel so you can always sink it

just less efficient

it's quite easy to have a little thing that just dumps the resin into rubber and depots it or w/e

[tight karma]

might then have that for "personal use" plastics

[mint coral]

If you consider sinking the poly byproduct you can absolutely make a pure fuel factory

[tight karma]

well yea ofc but i thought i saw a way of making poly into fuel,

[crimson moat]

My memory was faulty there too 😄

the recipies exist to convert fuel 1:1 into either plastic or rubber (and with the material-efficient recipies for fuel, that's also the best way to make them!)

But you do get resin with all of the fuel recipies; just not nearly as much if using HOR > diluted fuel.

20 resin per 80 fuel

while the standard recipe was 30 resin per 40 fuel

[tight karma]

I'll do that then

cuz i do have those recipes luckily

[mint coral]

The excess poly is good for automating filters too. Something to think about if you plan on going nuclear at some point

[tight karma]

I was whining yesternight about how i'd have to automate those.....

good call

[mint coral]

Something I overlook. I have a stick note on my monitor

[tight karma]

make filters

although I might just stick to the pure plastic factory since I'm 50 supercomputers away from nuclear power

[mint coral]

I need to figure out nuclear soon. I keep putting it off

(This is how I always end up just making nitro rocket fuel)

[tight karma]

why tho?

nuclear seems fun

[mint coral]

Im sure it is

I just defualt to what I know. I already used all the random raw resources in blue crater dor other thing to remove that location as a option (with mass deconstruction)

Hopefully this will help prevent me from getting lazy lol

[tight karma]

blue crater?

[mint coral]

Its in the south east corner of the map.

It has tons of oil and a little of every resource in the game nearby other than uranium

[tight karma]

ahhhhh, yeah havent been there a whole lot

[mint coral]

You can easily make 600gw of nitro rocket fuel there

[meager kettle]

It has lots of sulfur, nitrogen and coal near the oil making it ideal for rocket fuel

[tight karma]

basically the only place i know the name of is the red forest..... because i never ever wanna have to go there again

[mint coral]

So I removed that ease by using as much as I can for other projects

[inner scarab]

@torn plaza so i need more stations but im not sure i have the space on the left without blocking the nitrogen node wich im not sure yet if ill need closely. either i block it or i extend it straight to the left with stations

[torn plaza]

jesus christ

oh that's not as big as i thought

[inner scarab]

i am thinking of just blocking it

[torn plaza]

for some reason i thought each smelter was a station

give each station its own block, and blocks regularly on the ins and outs

only need path signals on complicated junctions

[inner scarab]

yep im already doin that

[torn plaza]

yey

[inner scarab]

just not sure if i should just block the nitrogen node

not sure if ya need them in uranium fuel rods anyways

or in anything connected to them

[torn plaza]

i think plutonium needs it

yeah non fissile uranium needs nitrogen

[inner scarab]

hmm. but it also needs other resources i dont have readily available here so i can just make plutonium at another location

[torn plaza]

worth planning for cause you can't sink uranium waste

[inner scarab]

yeah but ill do that in a seperate location probably

[inner scarab]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=luAjQHtWb8aHsWYMILZV this is the plan for the uranium fuel rods (are there any alternate recipes i should 100% get to get more than 10/min out of the same resources or use less machines?

[torn plaza]

both uranium alts will get you more fuel rods out of the same uranium but involve more complicated inputs

my plan is 600 to 14.4 rods

[inner scarab]

i see let me check em out. what about the products inbetween?

for less basic resource need for example

[torn plaza]

well, it ends up needing a lot of everything so there's no easy answer

i'm still deciding on how to do mine

but i'm determined to use infused uranium cell and uranium fuel unit alts

[mint coral]

Im going to do my "babies first Nuclear" in the swamp as it has a little of everything.

[hollow rover]

kinda stuck with this problem for hours now, because for the next part of the chain needs exactly 1200 iron ingot, how can I balance this?

[torn plaza]

priority splitter

[hollow rover]

wdym?

[torn plaza]

you want one ingot output to have exactly 1200?

[hollow rover]

yes

[oblique hollow]

smart splitter set to overflow one of the lines, priority merger on the other

then you get 1 x 1200 and whatever the heck gets left over on the other belt

[hollow rover]

wait, I can edit the smart splitter to split an exact amount?

I thought smart splitter is only used when doing sushi belts?

[torn plaza]

in satisfactory modeller specifically, you can use priority splitters

see how i manually say "40 iron plate constructors"

[hollow rover]

but how do you exactly split the exact amount in game? I thought splitters will only divide it by exactly half?

[torn plaza]

for that? you don't lmao

you manifold it to back up and it'll go where it needs

at ~2200 iron ingots a minute it'll fill fast

[wind spade]

no you cannot

[wind spade]

no, splitters will alternate outputs, unless one is full

[torn plaza]

there's no point trying to load balance thousands of anything

[oblique hollow]

not what i said.
i said use "overflow" ona smart splitter.
that means it will cram as much as it can down one of the exists and if it backs up, the rest goes down the other exit

if you combine that with a priority merger, which tries to keep the input with highest priority moving... you can merge part of the 1114.29 onto the other belt to make 1200

you dont math out how much should go from belt one to belt two.
you let the game math it out for you

[torn plaza]

wait

there's a very easy way to balance and get exactly 1200

[wind spade]

yeah, just put 1200 on a belt and don't balance anything 🙂

[hollow rover]

but the next output needs 1200

[wind spade]

so, hook the belt to it

[oblique hollow]

do you need 1 x 1200 or 2 x 1200 ?

if you need 2 x 1200 you literally cannot use this factory alone, its too small and doesnt make enough

[inner scarab]

this is my current state. might everything converging cause problems? i mean it will have to one or the other way but yk

[frosty owl]

Modeler-speaking... You can edit the inside of you blueprint so one group of machines outputs 1200 and the other group processes the remaining ore

[torn plaza]

that should be fine

with block signals on every station they'll wait their turn

[hollow rover]

no, I am trying to plan out engine factory, I need to know how many belt lines I need. I already design this in modular so that its easy to visualize how many pure iron ores I need.

[torn plaza]

though i would over-spec how many freight platforms you need to be safe

[hollow rover]

but the problem is using pure iron ingot recipe

[inner scarab]

well then. i will have to add a few more stations unfortunately so i might actually make 2 main routes

[oblique hollow]

just adjust the pure iron refinery clocking

make one side have enough refineries so you make 1200

and the other makes less. done

[inner scarab]

ill do 2 on each so i got 11 minutes on the most used and a bit more on the others

[hollow rover]

its already at max

[oblique hollow]

then dont do 50 / 50

[torn plaza]

go to whatever needs 1200, change that to be the right amount of machines

[torn plaza]

i always do 3 cause that's how many one train can pull

[frosty owl]

Double click on the ingot of the Pure Iron node in the bottom; set the output to 1200
Then remove the limit on the node on top so it consumes whatever ore is leftover (so long as the ore is limited)

[inner scarab]

i also have 2 stations for the materials that i need to go to 2 nodes for and for the materials where i need more than 780 per minute.

[torn plaza]

gotcha

[hollow rover]

I know, but this means I need the second one to be 1200 anyways so it just pushes the problem forward

[torn plaza]

you should be fine

[torn plaza]

i don't understand

[hollow rover]

same here lol

[oblique hollow]

what is the issue ?

[torn plaza]

you're asking two different questions

how do i do this in modeller and how do i do this in game

[inner scarab]

so you need two outputs of 1200 or what.

[oblique hollow]

do you want both to do 1200/min ?
then you need more iron ore

[meager kettle]

or some sulfur :p

[oblique hollow]

leached iron my beloved

[hollow rover]

okay, for my planned engine factory, I need exactly 12 pure mk 3 iron ore deposits

However,

[inner scarab]

.. what the fuck do you need that many engines for

[hollow rover]

using pure iron ingot recipes, it outputs a weird amount

[oblique hollow]

how did you determine that you need exactly 12 pure mk 3 deposits?

[inner scarab]

also isnt iron pipe highly wastefull here?

like genuinly

train in some coal for gods sake

[oblique hollow]

people hating on steel or something

[wind spade]

iron pipe is expensive way to skip coal 🤷

[inner scarab]

yeah i was wondering why 12 pure nodes but then i see the fucking 6k iron spent on damn iron pipes

[hollow rover]

oh, forgot to mention that its because its for this. 12 mk3 deposits for regular iron smelterly, I want to know how much ore deposits I am saving if I switch to pure recipe

[torn plaza]

has anyone ever gone this big scale without using any coal

[hollow rover]

for coal, I am planning on using nearby coal for a different project

[oblique hollow]

so you need 14400/min INGOTS then?

[inner scarab]

get coal from somewhere else then wtf. dont waste shit tons of iron just to avoid some infrastructure

[meager kettle]

1 pure iron and coal could give you 1800 steel pipes with some concrete added :p

[hollow rover]

yes

[oblique hollow]

NOW you have a proper question to work with
"If i need 14400/min ingots, how much iron ore would that be if i used pure iron"

[torn plaza]

you're using modeller all wrong by the way

[oblique hollow]

answer is this

which is like 222 refineries

[inner scarab]

any way i can get iron down to at least 700? so i dont have to use 2 stations or trains

[hollow rover]

wdym?

[inner scarab]

or would 2 input belts on one station just work enough too? actually yeah

[oblique hollow]

... ~~use pure iron ~~

[mint coral]

You could make the steel ingots before transporting

[torn plaza]

so instead of needing 4 nodes, you only need 2

[torn plaza]

iron alloy

[wind spade]

on one station? for sure
on one platform? possibly, but I'd rather use one belt per platform

[inner scarab]

dont make me go and find more hard drives

[torn plaza]

iron alloy and copper alloy are great

[oblique hollow]

you coulde use basic iron

[inner scarab]

id just have one full mk4 belt go into 1 platform each then have buffers

[brisk urchin]

use pure iron ingot

[oblique hollow]

its great too and just needs limestone in foundries

[torn plaza]

the answer to your question is "get to hard drive hunting"

[brisk urchin]

cuts the iron in half

[wind spade]

that should be enough for most cases

[torn plaza]

she can't tatsuya is using all the refineries

[inner scarab]

well damn i have avoided it all this time. it is time to face it

[inner scarab]

allrighty. just hope the train wont take like 11 minutes but with this setups it SHOULD be fine

[wind spade]

if trains takes too long, add another train

[oblique hollow]

mom said its my turn on the pure iron refinery

[brisk urchin]

wdym

[torn plaza]

also @hollow rover i have to ask; why no steel

[torn plaza]

issa joke

[brisk urchin]

._.

[inner scarab]

oh right i could just have 2 trains go from and to the same stations if needed

[torn plaza]

i'm always scared that the second will end up right behind the first after small delays accumulate

[hollow rover]

saving most of the coal for an even larger project

[torn plaza]

converting it to iron?

[oblique hollow]

500 diamonds

[inner scarab]

might it be worth it to keep the factory safe for just expanding or should i just rip it down fully rather once i get better uranium recipes. probably the latter eh?

[frosty owl]

How many carats per second would that be?

[hollow rover]

second question, I think it was answered already. So someone was saying I can merge the second iron ingot line to the first one? That will make the first iron ingot line 1200 and will not affect the efficiency of the second line?

[oblique hollow]

no. the second one will become even less

[torn plaza]

yeah the idea of uranium backing up scares me

[inner scarab]

wdym

[oblique hollow]

you will be subtracting like 85.71 from the second belt

[meager kettle]

yea, can make a belt compressor, just place a priority merger (with center line on highest priority) on the belt you want to be 1200/min, then place a smart splitter on the other belt, set the any towards merger and the rest to overflow forward.

[torn plaza]

as in if a train is a little late and uranium fuel rods can't be made and suddenly it's backed up radioactive products ever

[hollow rover]

thanks, will try this. Never knew I can use it like this. I thought priority mergers and smart splitters are only used when doing sushi belts

[torn plaza]

it's a shame mcgalleon didn't tell you that twenty minutes ago

[oblique hollow]

I'd have switched to leached iron long ago and just accepted the sulfur hit.
or heck. basic iron

[hollow rover]

my bad 🤣

[oblique hollow]

such nice numbers

[inner scarab]

@torn plaza i completely overlooked that there is actually a caterium node near my factory lol. somehow i missed it. now i just gotta unlock the mk3 miners

[torn plaza]

lmao

[inner scarab]

and hope my friend gets done with our aluminium plant so it runs fully so i can actually use a lot of mk5 belt and not only use the aluminium i found

[torn plaza]

mk5 belts are a hell of a drug

but yeah nuclear really works better with as many alts as you can get

[inner scarab]

my wire keeps going missing into a dismantle crate like 2km away. i hate the auto merge feature of dismantle crates

[meager kettle]

turn it off then

[torn plaza]

yeah you can turn it off, if you like dozens of dismantle crates

(i don't)

[inner scarab]

well the problem is the insane range it has

[meager kettle]

or ya know...

[torn plaza]

you could always go get the dismantle crate

[meager kettle]

just pick up the dismantle crates and not leave em 2km away

[torn plaza]

and hard drives while you're over there

@inner scarab https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=kdO2M03hcYvXBvTyKqJ3 this is my current nuclear plan; subject to change

though i might separate plutonium just to make it easier to build

[inner scarab]

@torn plaza i just saw what the mk3 miners need to unlock. nvm ill just use multiple mk2 lmao. otherwise id have to wait untill my friend completes aluminium at least and the horrifying thing called fused modular frames

[torn plaza]

ah yeah they're a beast

nuclear is the kind of thing best tackled after you do most of phase 4 milestones

imo

[inner scarab]

fair but now ive started so ya know

[torn plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/plastic-man-real-real-powder-powder-that-makes-you-say-real-animated-comic-plastic-man-gif-7493651428267836743

[latent shard]

Hey ! I'm a little stuck... I need the sulfur and oal in this area, any idea on how to get here ?
I can't make hazmat suit, i'm not in the aluminium age yet

[torn plaza]

use foundations to build around any radiation spots

and watch out for cats

[latent shard]

cats ? i don't get it

[torn plaza]

if you don't know why this game has an arachnophobia mode, you'll find out soon

[latent shard]

"watch out for cats" what does this mean ?

oh there is big spidey in this area ?

[torn plaza]

yeah

[inner scarab]

im so close to just belting everything except maybe the uranium cuz thats a bit far away but tbh even that at this point

[torn plaza]

arachnophobia mode replaces them with pictures of cats

[inner scarab]

ive spent way too long

[torn plaza]

yeah belting is'nt satisfactory

[latent shard]

OH I GET IT NOW

[inner scarab]

ill at least belt the uranium and sulfur but i realised most of it isnt THAT far away if i use a blueprint for belts lmao

[latent shard]

and so what should i do for my pb ?

[torn plaza]

a nice looking blueprind would work yeah

[torn plaza]

pb?

[latent shard]

for my problem ?

[torn plaza]

build foundations to make bridges around any radioactive spots

[latent shard]

that's it?

[meager kettle]

pretty much, build from afar :p

[latent shard]

i died twice there and the second i just wanted to take my stuff back but seems i'm not running fast enough

[torn plaza]

just not worth it, radiation kills

[inner scarab]

i love that im getting a crash report every time i close to desktop

[inner scarab]

yeah id just stand far enough away and build from there

[heady sun]

whats the behind the scenes reason why you cant place nodes on an unpowered pressurizer

[meager kettle]

cuz the extractors dont use power in themselves, so not allowed until the pressurizer have pressurized the wells

[heady sun]

but why would it check if the pressurizer is powered before letting you place it? wouldnt it make more sense to check if the pressurizer is powered before it starts pumping?

bc i assume it checks that already, otherwise you could unpower the pressurizer after placing the nodes

[frosty owl]

Can you place them if you power the pressurizer and then unpower/dismantle it?

[cinder silo]

This one will be fun.

I'm looking for the copper now, the cubes are ready to go.

[surreal dune]

if you want to have 0 uranium waste for ficsonium production do you have to use encased plutonium cell?

[cinder silo]

While imperfect, the coke plant nearby will take off quite a bit of strain, and one pure slender tower to make up the difference.

[meager kettle]

you dont have to, but is easier on the resources

[surreal dune]

thought that's why it was picked across nearly every planner. i used to have this all planned out but idk where the heck i put it

can you still make as many rods with it though? seems to use more uranium overall

[meager kettle]

it uses more uranium waste, so you get less plutonium, which then makes less waste so its less ficsonium

[surreal dune]

iirc making ficsonium is pretty power hungry right? so making less rods would be ideal in that scenario

[meager kettle]

its takes some power, but its only like 1/4th of what you gain

the big cost is the sam ore

[spare basin]

Idk for sure if I can ask my question here, but how would one go about a blocking and pathing off a train switch in this game

[meager kettle]

path in block out

[spare basin]

So at the bottom 2 paths and the other 4 blocks?

[torn plaza]

path on all 3 entrances

there are 3 ways in

wait. no there's one way in

[surreal dune]

i see 2
3

[torn plaza]

one path on the bottom

wait no path on all 3 ways in

[meager kettle]

well are trains going up on both tracks?

[torn plaza]

-# i'm very tired

[spare basin]

so the main line is to the right, the left one goes to a iron factory

[torn plaza]

is this right hand drive?

[spare basin]

yeb, or well atleast that is how I want it

[meager kettle]

blue is path, green block

[spare basin]

also follow up question is this a handy way to connect to my main line?

[surreal dune]

wouldn't that create a massive block section since there's nothing to stop them until they reach another block signal

[torn plaza]

that's why path signals; if trains can go past each other, they will

[spare basin]

The whole main line will get signals

[torn plaza]

they'll only stop if it would cause a crash, and you need them to stop there

[meager kettle]

if the left and right branches dont need to go between each other, sure it'll work

[spare basin]

So this is how I should do it?

[surreal dune]

that's why i use blocks on all 6, no worries of ending a block at a station area where i want a new one to begin

[meager kettle]

its a way to do it

[torn plaza]

that means only one train is allowed in the junction at a time, very slow

[surreal dune]

not for mine, i don't build mine like that

[torn plaza]

that's how it would be if you put 6 blocks there

[surreal dune]

it shouldn't they'll all be individual block segments

[torn plaza]

crossing rails mean it gets treated like one block segment

[surreal dune]

ohhhhh, i don't have that problem with trumpet and turbines lol. never built a 2d intersection

[meager kettle]

ideally make this bit go either over or under the other track so they dont cross, but keep in mind height to allow train to pass over or under and not collide.

[torn plaza]

2d junctions have surprising throughput

with path signals

[meager kettle]

to a point

[torn plaza]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j939cbiQWyg

[spare basin]

Yea I'll watch that video, thank-you all for thinking with me!

Cause I have the feeling that i am making it my self pretty hard atm

[heady sun]

i only need a fancy double pipe train buffer if im trying to send 600+ fluid a minute right

and i can just put down a buffer next to the fluid platform if its less than that

[torn plaza]

nah, the buffer is there to compensate for the platform not accepting water during loading/unloading; budget for 600 water per platform

and you need fluid buffers for them

[heady sun]

would this work as a buffer for 450 liquid/min?

[vapid gorge]

probalby not, you're only using 1 pipe

[vapid gorge]

copy one of these #design-and-architecture message
or #design-and-architecture message

I'd make a blueprint of whatever one you wanted to use

[torn plaza]

the whole point is you need to use both pipes

so that the buffer backs up while it's loading, then unloads at 1200/min afterwards to compensate

[heady sun]

but if its under 600, wouldnt it back up while loading and then load at 600 to compensate?

[vapid gorge]

depends on your train time

[torn plaza]

would only work if it was like 300, otherwise you'd lose out

[vapid gorge]

also a buffer like that might just murder your flow

I highly recommend you use one of those tested designs

[heady sun]

i dont suppose theres any way to see the round trip time without manually timing it?

[vapid gorge]

nope

[torn plaza]

nope

[vapid gorge]

just make a proper buffer

you can almost certainly use a small buffer

[heady sun]

yea i was wondering if i could get away with the small one

[torn plaza]

there are designs that use the small one

just copy one of the ones above

[heady sun]

loads take 30 seconds right

[torn plaza]

27, but close enough

[hidden roost]

how can i get biomass burners to charge batteries? because batteries only charge from excess power, and burners only make exactly the power that is needed. i have a backup emergency power grid of biomass burners and battiers i have hooked up to a priority power switch but the batteries wont charge from the biomass burners

[outer vale]

you can't

[torn plaza]

biomass burners are basically batteries

they use precisely as much power as needed

[vapid gorge]

yeah bio burners are just a different chemical battery

[hidden roost]

im aware but they dont produce enough power to jumpstart my grid

[torn plaza]

they will with enough burners

[hidden roost]

mannn okay ill place the rest of my burners

[vapid gorge]

jump start a smaller portion

[torn plaza]

what are you jumpstarting?

[vapid gorge]

and that coal power will jump start more

[hidden roost]

3300 burners to go hehe

(~120 blueprints)

[torn plaza]

wat

[heady sun]

when my line is this long with 4 stops, should i be worried about the fluid platform itself filling up between trips?

[vapid gorge]

how are you using bio burners at this point but don't have something else to charge batteries?

[hidden roost]

i made a silly power plant specifically to make an over the top amount of biomass burners just from a tiny bit of hogs lol

[torn plaza]

that's factored into the graph

[hidden roost]

i dooo

[vapid gorge]

power storage is tier 4? don't you have coal power?

[hidden roost]

ill just hook up nuclear or something

[vapid gorge]

???

[torn plaza]

did you download a megaprint or something

[hidden roost]

ive finished every single milestone lol

im just being silly

[torn plaza]

i

[vapid gorge]

yeah I'm jumping out, gl. You have tons of alternatives to 3000 bioburners

[torn plaza]

forgive her lord, she knows not what she does
-# or she's too smart for me to understand her madness

[hidden roost]

this is like all i need to constantly power like 4000 burners lol. only like 5 remains per minute and thats only if the whole thing is burning nonstop

[hidden roost]

im just being silly

i thought it would be hilarious to cover the dune desert with biomass burners and see just how much remains i actually need to feed it

[torn plaza]

oh my god

[hidden roost]

i know its super inefficient and very stupid but i find it so funny

[torn plaza]

i assume that's slooped

[hidden roost]

mhm

[torn plaza]

that's not totally insane now i can see what you're doing

one elite hog has more energy than a plutonium fuel rod with slooping

[hidden roost]

if you go the extra step to sloop liquid biofuel refineries then it is even more hog efficient

[hidden roost]

YEAH HEHEHE

im sure ada is just so dissapointed with me rn

[torn plaza]

ficsit does not waste, you're exploiting the fauna

this uses biocoal

[heady sun]

this look good?

[torn plaza]

ah but the solid biofuel then liquid biofuel means an extra sloop step

so that meme isn't even as dumb as it gets

[hollow charm]

You can turn protein into biomass??

[torn plaza]

ye

[hollow charm]

I didn't know that

Although it took 8.6 hours to even build the MAM

[hidden roost]

its like the most efficient way, it gives SO much biomass

[torn plaza]

oh dear god

ah but no

[hollow charm]

I'm just getting coal as fast as possible

[torn plaza]

that's every sloop on the map

though you'd have to be insane to burn it all at once

[hollow charm]

I manually crafted all the materials for 50 smart plating FROM SCRATCH because I hate myself

[hidden roost]

6,300,000Mw per alpha hog if i use the liquid biofuel recipe. thats over 3 times better, but it uses some resources for the canisters.

[heady sun]

#design-and-architecture message why is the pump pointing towards the fluid platform when its on the unload pipe?

[torn plaza]

oops

[torn plaza]

who needs batteries lmao

[hidden roost]

hehehe

the only issue is that the biomass burners give a ridiculously low amount of constant power output tho, and they burn the biofuel very slowly. each biomass burner only gives a pitiful 75 mw 😭

[hidden roost]

hmph maybe ill use fuel generators instead.... but thats not using biomass burners which is funnier

and i just checked, the fuel power generator and the biomass burner are both just as fuel efficient

[spare basin]

Might this be a better solution?

[torn plaza]

yeah, the fuel has a fixed amount of power in joules

clean lookin' junction

[torn plaza]

with overclocking you'd only need 100 instead of 250 burners

if you have, like, 300 power shards in your pocket

single dumbest thing i ever calculated

[hidden roost]

i just made power shard automation (25/m)

[hidden roost]

single most glorious thing you ever calculated

just make sure you use incognito mode so ada doesnt see

[torn plaza]

LMAO

[torn plaza]

twenty five

i have 2/min

[hidden roost]

yeah let me go and take a screenshot

[heady sun]

do pumps force fluid to move even if the pipes not full

[hidden roost]

it provides headlift to any fluid that goes through it. so pretty much no

[torn plaza]

you asked about batteries and I thought you were new to this game

[hidden roost]

nah lol

i mean i dont have that many hours tho.....

[torn plaza]

i only got to phase 5 like last week

[hidden roost]

peak

i love that part of the game

[torn plaza]

still double mine ish

[heady sun]

same

[torn plaza]

i had put off automating all previous phases so i built one big megafactory to do all four

it nearly killed me

took like 18 months of on and off play, mostly off because of how insurmountable it looked

[heady sun]

same, i had to build everything from the ground up basically

[hidden roost]

yeah ive honestly learned it can be more fun to fully automate each phase at a time using only the stuff you have- instead of waiting until you have phase 5 to automate. because then starting the megafactory is overwhelming and often times the power and logistics infrastructure isnt good enough. (and i mean, it also sucks to grind to phase 5 and just do lazy "automation" and handfeeding and waiting for hours and hours.)

[torn plaza]

i import cooling devices, turbo motors, supercomputers, heavy modular frames and fused modular frames from other huge factories

[torn plaza]

yeah I figured that out much too late

now I'm gonna tell all my friends hey

[hidden roost]

only like 8 playthroughs in did i fully learn that lol

[torn plaza]

don't skip automating that phase

waiting until you have every alt unlocked and you can make one mega factory that use all resources at full efficiency results in depleted brain resource

and that's finite

-# at least mine is

[hidden roost]

something ive thought about doing is planning on automating like 5/m of each phase 5 space elevator part. and then for each earlier space elevator part required ill automate the amount ill need for the phase. like i think overall i need like 60 smart plating per min overall? so id automate 60 smart plating for tier 2 lol

[torn plaza]

yeah I ended up planning for 4:4:1:1 of phase 4, which was my plan since update 7

[hidden roost]

it does sound kinda torturous tho. and logistics early game sucks and i would need alot of long distance logistics to get the materials that i would normally just get from a single mk3 miner lol

[torn plaza]

this is my phase 4 plant

i made life much harder than it needed to be by raising machines like that

but it means the logistics floor is nice and flat and you can see it

[hidden roost]

omg i love the raised buildings like that i might have to use that idea in the future

genuinely that looks awesome

[torn plaza]

thank

i knew it would be worth it but MAN it's a bitch connecting manufacturers when you need to use lifts to get under and back up again

[heady sun]

i should start building factories like that all of mine are just stacks of concrete slabs with machines between them

[torn plaza]

i have blueprints for all of it (5 constructors, 4 assemblers, 2 manufacturers etc) so building that was actually pretty fast

connecting it all up

man

[vapid gorge]

you build at location. Or use trucks.

[torn plaza]

also a lot of the time I'll only need 1 manufacturer but I'll use 4 anyway to fill out the floor

[hidden roost]

@torn plaza #screenshots message

[obsidian juniper]

Love how you can see all the logistics underneath

[maiden bay]

Can someone who is better at math help me figure this out. im making 1600 turbofuel a min and idk how many fuel powered gens i can run with that

[obsidian juniper]

Over clocked?

[torn plaza]

oh i love the architecture of that, with the shape of the pillars

reminds me of my supercomputer plant

[vapid gorge]

how much does 1 fuel gen need pm?

[spare basin]

Okey my brain is still pooping out on the signal stuff for the T junction.
And I cant fully figure it out with yt vids, I still get the yellow warning signs.

Anyone that can give me a crash course so I can finally get it and go on with expending my factory.

[obsidian juniper]

213 unover clocked

[vapid gorge]

you were complaining about hookign up manufacturers, this is very easy and clean

[obsidian juniper]

85 iver clocked

Will slowly back log tho so if you want the decimals I can give em

[torn plaza]

@hidden roost #design-and-architecture message

[torn plaza]

sometimes rails bug out and you need to rebuild them to make them work

[hidden roost]

holy crap wait that shit looks so good

i love ur style ur a good builder

[torn plaza]

if you're getting the "rail loops into itself" thing

[heady sun]

this feels illegal

[torn plaza]

thank; your stuff reminds me of that one, the way pillars keep going from the lines the factory shape make

[obsidian juniper]

I’ve just unlocked trains I can’t wait but I’m dreading it aswell

[vapid gorge]

just basic sushi manifold

[maiden bay]

7.5 normal 18.75 overclocked

[vapid gorge]

yes I was trying to get them to use basic maths

[heady sun]

they’re peak

[obsidian juniper]

It’s 213.33333333 unoverclocked and 85.33333333 overclocked

[obsidian juniper]

I bet but I don’t feel ready for them

[maiden bay]

would it be 213 normal and 1 underclocked at 33.333 or 212 and one underclocked

[obsidian juniper]

213 and an under clocked

Or let it back up

Either works

You lost 75 mw

I think you can let it back up atleast unless your using a byproduct from a recipe

[torn plaza]

a sushi would never work given how many things go many places and need to be backed up real far to manifold properly

[obsidian juniper]

Then you wanna do exact amounts

[torn plaza]

not in that factory

[torn plaza]

you can do it

[obsidian juniper]

It’s more so I don’t know if I should do them yet

I’m still using phase 2 stuff

Like power grid wise so idk if o should wait abit before going for trains

[obsidian juniper]

Is it worth using trains before building mega factories

The first big factories apart from a power plant will be like computers and fused /heavy modular frames I think

[vapid gorge]

nah it works easy, all you need to do is put on the right number of parts per min on it and at the start have an over flow

[torn plaza]

depends how much stuff you need for that

[vapid gorge]

it works especially well for manufacturers since so many of hte recipes are fairly low ppm

[torn plaza]

automated speed wiring eats up too much wire for that

generally a lot of wire and quickwire going everywhere that would jam everything up on a sushi belt, and I'd need so many overflow belts looping back it wouldn't even save time

[obsidian juniper]

Would it not be easier with 4 lifts?

With 4 belts hidden underneath

[torn plaza]

yeah, but because I'm a posh git who raised his machines, I need 4 lifts to 4 belts, then 2 nudged lifts to lower half of the belts down to the floor and 2 more back up again

a deeper logistics floor would have saved me the bother but looked worse

i wanted all the bells to be as close to the floor as possible so you could see everything moving

[obsidian juniper]

It sounds like a good sacrifice to make when the build looks like that

[torn plaza]

the things we do for art

[obsidian juniper]

If I showed you my starter factory I think you’d have a stroke

[torn plaza]

mine was jank af

[obsidian juniper]

I just slowly added things in

Half the stuff is temporary permanent till the factory is leveled

For a much bigger build in the future

[torn plaza]

I've left a lot of my early factories looking basic rather than ripping them up

tried a bunch of different methods and aesthetics

[vapid gorge]

sushi for everything but hte wire for that recipe then 🙂

[spare basin]

I don't understand it no more, there are 3 signals with the yellow warning and I cant seem to fix it

[obsidian juniper]

My basic factory does abit of everything there’s copper steel and iron being put into it

It’s a mess and it just floating floors

[torn plaza]

i still can't see how for even low throughput items things would get distributed properly

like, I'm using X stators for automated speed wiring, Y stators for motors and Z stators for electromagnetic connection rods; if it's all sushi then surely they just get a third of the items

[obsidian juniper]

It just doesn’t look nice at all

Not a fan of sushi manifolds ig

[torn plaza]

my factories were floating floors

leave room around the outside and you can do anything

foundations are great walls

[obsidian juniper]

Ye true wanna make some nice looking ones soon tho

[vapid gorge]

so you hate 1 belt manifolds? cause it's just that.

[obsidian juniper]

It just looks weird on manufacturers

My whole save is 1 belt manifolds but when it’s like that it don’t look nice

Ig it’s more so manufacturers with a manifold like that just aren’t visually appealing

[spare basin]

For a t junction is this how the signaling should be? That the whole junction is one block?

[torn plaza]

that looks correct

[spare basin]

Alright so the whole junction uses path signals to avoid a grid lock

as far as my knowledge goes is that it is better for all the signals of that junction be path signals and not 3 path and 3 block

[dusky dust]

No, if you're using Path signals it's path signals on the way "in," and block signals on the way "out"

3+3 is the way to go

[spare basin]

Also along the main railroad is it better to have path or block signals?

[dusky dust]

You only use Path Signals when you're going into an area where there can be multiple paths through the intersection where trains don't necessarily cross -- the Path Signal lets more than one train be inside that block, if the path reservations work out

[dusky dust]

Block. Path is only used for intersections where there's the possibility of non-intersecting paths through the intersection

Path Signals are also always technically optional. Depending on circumstance they may not even really help improve intersection throughput. Once you do start having busy intersections they can often help, for sure, but you can build your whole network with nothing but Block Signals and it'll work fine

[spare basin]

So like this

bottom right path goes to block, and straigh also a block

same for the other side

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I think that looks right. Right-hand drive, yeah?

[spare basin]

Yes, right hand drive

[dusky dust]

One other tip is that you'll want to make the blocks leading up to the path signal as long as is feasible, btw. If the block leading up to a Path Signal is too short, trains will slow down even if they might not have to, 'cause the path reservation takes a bit of time

So that really-short block going into the distance on the upper right should be lengthened (probably just remove those intermediate signals)

ie:

[spare basin]

How long away would you suggest? Spacing wise

[dusky dust]

I generally space out my blocks to be about 200m long (two "full" rail placements) but that's probably overkill for most situations

Going down to 100m is fine too

(I mean, you can go as frequent as you want, really. 🥳 You'll just end up seeing trains slow down as they approach intersections if they're too small.)

Though you can figure that out with time; not really a detail worth worrying too much about at the moment

[spare basin]

My plan is to have 8 to 10 sub factories connected to a mega factory, that is where this line will be used for.
For power ill make a nother train line

[dusky dust]

If you eventually notice trains slowing down as they approach intersections, you'll know what to do to address it. :)

[spare basin]

But thankyou for all the tips!

I finally made it work after 3 brain breaking hours

[dusky dust]

Woo, enjoy!

[spare basin]

Now I can Finally say I understand trains xD

[spare basin]

Alright signals have been put down across the whole train line

mega projects here we come!

thx again you lot for helping me

[dusky dust]

Cheers, have fun!

[mint coral]

I like the rail

[spare basin]

Thx man! I have the basics as blueprints if you want them.

I have the straights, pillars and elevation versions. Corners have been made by rotating the blueprints by either 5 clicks or 9 for sharper corners.

[mint coral]

I appreciate the offer but blueprint sharing is against the rules
Even if it wasn't I make my own

#design-and-architecture message

[spare basin]

Ah, I totally forgot. You are right. But hey thx again!

[cedar rover]

hi all, could anyone help a newbie in relation to spaghetti? i’m at the point where coal is unlocked. any help appreciated.

[queen sigil]

Build on foundations.
Make extra space - at least 1 foundation on both input and output side of machines.

Build vertically, snap lifts onto inputs and outputs and snap splitters/mergers to those to split inputs and merge outputs

[hybrid snow]

Am at a similar point and what i found is building on foundations is hella nice, make sure to get enough coal because those coal generators are awesome but eat allot of it, same with water. And make sure u get enough screws cuz atleast for me i use them up hella quick

[cedar rover]

@queen sigil @hybrid snow the problem i have is placement. i can either build a 1st floor, leaving my generators below, or i widen it, but then it involves having to move that massive space tower (forgot what it’s called). i did want to opt for a vertical setup, but have you found any designs that are optimised?

[hybrid snow]

Honestly what i did is building hella big ass platform. Fits most of my farms (only need to make the new coal iron mix alloy stuff)

I think i made mine around 15x15

Smth like that with bit extra for random stuff

I was able to fit there 9 generators (coal and it was a pain to set em up so make sire u get enough water and coal) all iron products and copper.

[outer vale]

9 is an unusual number of coal gens

[cedar rover]

did you leave the generators on one floor and then place the furnaces and other above?

[outer vale]

nothing wrong with moving the spelevator. But also, consider just building your stuff elsewhere, this sounds like you're trying to move everything to one place?

[hybrid snow]

Well before them i had like 6 bio fuel ones then removed them for 3 coal ones. And because water pumps eat unusually much electricity i made 3 more. Then figured i have space for more so why not add 3 more

[outer vale]

well, because it requires a weird amount of coal (135)

[cedar rover]

it’s more of a case of me trying to reduce spaghetti, minimising as much space and include it in one spot to avoid me running around like a headless chicken

[hybrid snow]

Nooo. Evrything is on the same floor

[outer vale]

usually you build 'em in multiples of 4 or 8, since that pairs with what the miners produce

[hybrid snow]

I mean now that i got i think 6 coal generators i will build more cuz i think one mk1 coal miner keeps like 2-3 coal generators

[outer vale]

I wouldn't worry about minimising space, that's how you get spaghetti half the time. Giving yourself more space is the best way to start getting a tidier setup

[hybrid snow]

And the water. I hate it. I had to overclock them to 150% for 12 generators

[outer vale]

one miner can supply some multiple of 4 usually, obviously depends on the actual purity of the node

given coal gens use 15 coal/min and a coal node'll be 30, 60, 120, etc

[hybrid snow]

Its a foto of 2 days ago. I placed the elevator bit later but it works hella fine

[cedar rover]

i have a mix. one produces 30 and another produces 60. issue is if i then try to split it, it skews how much the furnaces receive

and thats before looking at other miners

which is where the spaghetti issue is coming from

and it ruins the productivity

[hybrid snow]

What i found is you can cut of half of the front ones and suply to the back. I mean like i merged all my coal conveyors into one then solit them two ways. One to the first 4 the other to the back. And then it fixed. Same with water

[cedar rover]

wait… so (x2+) miner —> conveyor —> merge —> conveyor —> split —> x2 furnace?

[outer vale]

then don't split it

[hybrid snow]

Ye smth like that

[cedar rover]

i need to split it because i won’t reach productivity i need

[outer vale]

or you could just get more coal 😛

[hybrid snow]

I only merge cuz i got an uneven number of conveyors and it makes it eziers

[outer vale]

there's like 30k on the map

[cedar rover]

i would but i need to get the upgrade, and to do that i need to build. but my setup is too messy.

[hybrid snow]

Brooo. I hate the spawn location of coal. One is like 400 m aways from base. The other is 800, and the rest three or four is 1600 m away

[cedar rover]

it’s a catch 22

if i try extend it, it’s pushed into my generator room

move it to the side, space elevator

other side? crafting and HUB

behind is the miners

which is why i was asking about the floor space

if i extend ground floor, i just get hit by gas

[hybrid snow]

What i did when i had a mess. Delete everything and just make a large ass area of foundation and start from there. One part was for all iron stuff. Another for copper, another for power

Everything outside i just make a nudle mess so idc

[hybrid snow]

Extend the other way ig

[cedar rover]

so you just recommend i scrap the setup, move and rebuild it?

[hybrid snow]

Yeeee

[cedar rover]

there isn’t another way unless i scrap it all

oof

alr

[hybrid snow]

That what i did. The starting location was a mess. I found a big ass area and build there

And the area i build in is kind anica i think. Over 8 iron deposits in around 500m distance (some are closer) 4 copper ones same distance. One coal around 400 and another 800 and lake large enough for 6 generators next to it

If u want i can show u where it is on my map

[cedar rover]

sure

would help a lot

thanks

[hybrid snow]

Hol up then

Yo check dms

It like infront of this thingy ig

There is a purple power slug on the very top of it too

Idk how to describe it any other way;-;

[outer vale]

This is by design, it's your introduction to the idea that you shouldn't always try and bring everything to one place, but have things where they make sense. In particular, since moving power doesn't need anything beyond just power poles, it's very easy to set up coal power somewhere further away but more convenient

[hybrid snow]

True true

[outer vale]

the further you get into the game, the more you'll spread out across the map

[hybrid snow]

I was thinking of finish this like main farm and then going more deep into the midle part of map

Gona try and set up all the posible stuff i can get rn here then upgrade to high levels and move else where

Cuz with hyper tubes travel is pretty ez

[cedar rover]

dont see anything?

[hybrid snow]

Its cuz u got in setings to knly get dms from friends

[cedar rover]

oh lol let me change 1 sec

[cedar rover]

done

[hybrid snow]

Check now

[mint yew]

does manifold work on pipes or no

[wind spade]

nothing else really works on pipes

[meager kettle]

i guess you could do a singular pipe from one machine to another and match the consumption. Not really practical tho, would be so many more pipes and each one running into flow issues :p

[mint yew]

great then

[mint yew]

whats the point of this
you would need pumps if stacking vertically too which is a waste of power

[wind spade]

nah, that's pretty legit as well

by "nothing else" I meant "go from one pipe to X machines"

[wind spade]

the point is you don't stack vertically

fluids want to be level or gravity fed anyway

[mint yew]

true

[cloud marlin]

I'm not sure if that's the right place but i have 1 sloppy alumina/electrode scrap factory that keeps backing up. Solution is to flush water out and it's ok for some time. I have 2 separate loops for fresh and recycled water so they are not mixing. I have calculated many times and i still have output of 546 water from Electrode Scrap and input of 546 water in the Sloppy Alumina refinery. im not sure what keeps failing. Pipes at not even levle? The height difference is max 2m. Problem is i think alumina solution starts backing up, however i have a perfect loop and its also calculated properly. Not sure what i did wrong cause i have 2 other factories and its gucci :D

[frosty owl]

Are you sure that the Electrode refineries are getting enough Coke?
If they don't, that'd explain the solution piling up

[meager kettle]

how would electrode scrap output 546 water and sloppy input 546?

300 water in = 210 water out (for 300 bauxite)

[cloud marlin]

Yes, they are 200/200 coke

[cloud marlin]

i meant just for the closed loop :D of course i have 2 separate refineries using fresh water

[wind spade]

not sure how do you do "closed loop" tbh

[orchid brook]

i am making a storage room and i only have 18 main containers (rest of the items go to depot) and i am trying to find out what to put in the main 18, what do u think? and what do i add?

[wind spade]

Why storage if you have depots?

[orchid brook]

some items i use bulk of

like concret and quarts

[wind spade]

Well that's just more depots 🙂

[meager kettle]

storage -> depots, have a big buffer for burst use :)

[orchid brook]

I do have for these

the items go to the dept and overflow goes down

and it looks cool

like why not

[hollow rover]

how many dual track lines do I need ideally here assuming all of them go to one destination?

like 6 platforms converging into one dual track line will suffice?

[orchid brook]

better imgs

[orchid brook]

i think ya, its just testing and if you cant test it rn just wait until you can and then add or remove depending on the troughput

[hollow rover]

I also need it to scale up though, assuming this becomes mk3 miners 1200/min each

not sure how will one dual track line will do,

[orchid brook]

i think it would be fine, just use path signles and make a good junction and your good, personaly this is my last train i did and it takes all of these ores accroess to the dune dessert from the grassland

if it needs more, just add more choo choos

[torn plaza]

this is a superb example of how to connect multiple train stations off of a dual rail by the way

[orchid brook]

"superb"?

[torn plaza]

ye, good

[orchid brook]

thank

[hollow rover]

this is my first time using a train logistics, will see how it goes. Will go back to conveyers if all else fails

[orchid brook]

ya same

[torn plaza]

some people use trains to bring in all of the maps resources in one place

[orchid brook]

first time

[orchid brook]

me

[torn plaza]

madman

[orchid brook]

i am gone collect like 70% of everything and move them to the dune dessert and turn them into ingots and then train them to the rest of the world

idk the numbers are broken but this was a lot like 20k iron ingots

i know its a bad idea but why not

[hollow rover]

Honestly, here are the pain points I found out and I am just in the PLANNING STAGE of train logistics

also doing aethetic build so it adds to the pain points

[mint coral]

So iron ingots at works is 1:1 one ore in and one ingot out.
If you use pure iron ingot recipe its 1:1.8 if you use pure its easier on your logistics to move the ore to the factory that needs the ingots then moving all the iron to the dunes then processing it into ingots then shipping it out.

@orchid brook

[meager kettle]

1 dual track section can pretty comfortably handle 50-80 trains

depends how long

[hollow rover]

at 1200/min each train?

[meager kettle]

thruput depends on distance

[hollow rover]

cause eventually this will become 1200 min EACH per mk3 ore deposit

[meager kettle]

a single train isnt gonna do 1200/min per car from one edge of the map to another

but you can just add more train

[orchid brook]

YA

[hollow rover]

so one dual track system in this case can handle 6 platforms with 5-6 trains each?

and destination will consistently use 1200 x 6 iron ingots per minute?

[meager kettle]

for my aluminium factory i was training in over 30000/min among 10 trains

[orchid brook]

i have 1200 belts split into 2 carts and and 600 belts into one and 300 belts well if i am not gone move them also one

[orchid brook]

i am also gone use all alumunum in the world

[hollow rover]

this is what I plan to do as well, but starting off small to understand train logistics and pain points

[meager kettle]

each train had 2 engine 8 cars. resources were split into 600/min for each car

unless there were impure nodes, then 300/min

[orchid brook]

i aint usin trains for that i am going up in the ski with drons

[outer vale]

as long as your stations are set up such that one train unloading doen't block other trains behind it, you'll be fine

[orchid brook]

also is 6 uranuim full rods enough to feed like 20 drones?

[meager kettle]

the biggest bottleneck i had with that, was making a single roundabout for an intersection which had awful capacity

[hollow rover]

so each iron pure deposit will have one train platform (6 in total), will converge to ONE dual train track

[outer vale]

simplest way is one station per train, or just having a long enough route that two trains using the same station will just not be right behind each other

[outer vale]

yeah that should be fine

it's like a road, as long as the traffic's moving you're fine

[hollow rover]

with eventually 3-6 trains PER train station?

[outer vale]

it's only when one car decides to stop that it causes problems for the ones behind it

[meager kettle]

if one train per station isnt doing the full thruput, you can have two and just time em so that each train arrives at opposite station

[hollow rover]

its hard to visualize and grasp

compared to belts, where I know I just need a flat 6

[meager kettle]

would not do more than 3 trains on a single station

[hollow rover]

welp, cause I need to use 100% of the resources, and I was told I just need to keep adding trains until it can reach max throughput

[meager kettle]

you can add one train, maybe two if distance is long, but since it takes like 30 seconds to load and unload, having more than that will cause issues

if you cannot do 1200/min in one car, do 600/min in two cars

its ALOT easier to maintain 600/min than 1200/min

[outer vale]

why would you need so many trains per station? that station's just gonna be blocked unloading for half its life lol

[hollow rover]

okay, will endeavor to see this through. Because of aethetic building, I really do not want to spend 50+ hours on this just to fail 🤣

[meager kettle]

Roundabout intersection, how it started, how it progressed :p

[orchid brook]

wow how did you do the rings areound the rails?

[meager kettle]

with beams, pillars and a lot of patience

[orchid brook]

do i connect the upper input or nah

[orchid brook]

ok i am gone try to learn that

[meager kettle]

#design-and-architecture message

like that

[orchid brook]

i get the patience part now

[meager kettle]

also you only need to do half, blueprint it, then flip it

[unique cypress]

Using both i/o ports is like half the point of using a container

[torn plaza]

connect both

that's why you use ISC

then connect one belt feeding the ISC

[unique cypress]

You can use both if you know what you're doing

[torn plaza]

so while the station is loading, the ISC fills up at belt speed, and after it's done loading, the ISC can dunk in at double belt speed

[torn plaza]

the only time I do that is where I have two pure quartz nodes feeding 2 trains with 3 freight platforms each; one node gets manifold on upper ISC inputs while the other node gets manifold on lower ISC inputs

probably overkill because I don't use anywhere near 2400 quartz

[fervent spire]

can you not get 1200 throughput on a single freight platform with 2 trains? I feel like that should be reasonable

[meager kettle]

you can, but it depends on many factors

the higher the rate you put into the freight terminal, the harder it will be to maintain that rate

it also depends on stack size

moving something which stacks to 500 is easier than something that stacks to 100

[torn plaza]

the desmos graph tells me that, with a stack size of 100 and a round trip time of 5 minutes, I get ~640 a minute throughput

that's not a lot of margin for error

[fervent spire]

well I don't think it's linear with number of trains, right? maybe 3 trains would make it work

guess it depends on whether you want 3 trains 2 platforms or vice versa

[torn plaza]

may as well have one train with 3 freight cars

which I do

[fervent spire]

yeah, fair

[torn plaza]

and two platforms for both trains that go to the quartz station

so there's zero chance of one train waiting for another

[fervent spire]

also wait that reminded me, I have a question about measuring round trip time. can I do it with just an engine + freight cars even if there's nothing in the freight stations?
I think if you don't have any freight cars then the train won't stop at the station for the correct time, but if you have a freight car, will it stop for the full unloading time even if there is nothing to do?

[meager kettle]

if you have three trains on a single station. 1.5 minutes will be loading for those three, if your roundtrip isnt very long, that can cause congestions and eventually all three trains just end up back to back and thruput becomes nearly same as one train

[torn plaza]

honestly I'm not sure now that you ask

[meager kettle]

empty cars weigh less than full. speed will be diffrent if your train is more than 1engine/4cars

[torn plaza]

yeah the first time I had two trains coming into one platform, the faster train inevitably got held up by the slower train, so they ended up with identical trip times (and taking up room on the rails)

so now I just have one platform per train, overkill as that is

just an excuse to build bigger

[meager kettle]

two trains per station is pretty much ok. specially if you time them and induce a wait time

[fervent spire]

yeah...I currently have a setup in the red forest where the RTT is about 3 minutes and I'm running 2 trains, it is working now but I'm gonna add a station further east in the red forest so I'll have to keep an eye on whether that train will slow down or mess with the cycle on the others

[meager kettle]

three could be ok if they travel a long distance > 8 min roundtrip

[torn plaza]

if I had some way of actually making a train schedule like a real life rail network I'd have shitloads of trains per station

[fervent spire]

ngl that would be a really cool feature to add but it would probably take a lot of time to capture all the edge cases for any possible kind of track system players can build

[torn plaza]

yeag

even cities skylines struggles with it

[meager kettle]

bring openttd train systems :p

honestly just having ability for train to take a slightly longer path if the main one is occupied would be such a godsend

create overtake lanes for faster trains to slower ones

[fervent spire]

I wouldn't even be against a system that was like..."stricter" on its requirements in favor of just letting you set up a schedule
like it didn't let you start ANY train on the network unless they were all at their respective stations and the whole schedule was started at once
which would put all the work of making sure there's no overlaps or delays on you rather than the system doing extra checks for you

[torn plaza]

instead we're getting better trucks

[fervent spire]

tbh that feels harder than trains so props to them XD

[torn plaza]

i guess they didn't like how nobody used trucks

[fervent spire]

I mean a train doesn't randomly decide to stall out because a stick fell on the route or something

so making trucks better is actually really nice and I will probably check them out if they get better

[torn plaza]

or head on collide with another train and sit there forever

[meager kettle]

trucks being functional in 1.2 kinda has me pondering making some combined train/road highway

[torn plaza]

also i had a probably not very well thought out idea for better fluid buffers; a third inlet on the top that's gravity fed

would make train platforms simpler

wouldn't do anything for gases alas

[serene flare]

I have a question, I have a total of 10 refineries producing a total of 200 p/m of rubber and plastic respectively, but producing a total of 300 m^3 HRO byproduct, which im using 2 refineries OC'd at 250% which in theory should use 100% of that HRO to turn into fuel for 10 FPG's completely efficient with no losses, i started by filling up a large industrial fluid buffer and all the pipes then turned the gens on, yet after around an hour the fluid buffer has run out completely and 1-2 of the gens are not being supplied with enough fuel

Im at a loss. the two refineries making fuel should be at 200m^3 per minute, and consumed fuel should also be at 200 m^3 respectively. I don't understand why its draining fuel

[torn plaza]

yeah that checks out; but with 600 crude oil going in, you could have pipe weirdness

are all of your rubber and plastic refineries running at 100% efficiency

[serene flare]

They're running at 200%

I used the shard crystals to cut down on space consumption

I forgot to mention that

[torn plaza]

i don't mean clock speed, i mean efficiency

this number

[serene flare]

Let me put eyes on it

[torn plaza]

if they're less than 100% then they're not running efficiently, and are either blocked or starved

[serene flare]

2 of them on one of the nodes are 93 and 97 percent, the other side is completely wack and idk why. Maybe buffers for the residue are needed?

[torn plaza]

buffers will only hurt you

running pipes at their maximum throughput can cause weirdness, as fluid can hit a dead end and flow backwards

you may need to feed the pipe manifold on both ends

[serene flare]

Well thats why i put valves

[torn plaza]

valves are dead ends and can cause that to happen

[serene flare]

hm.

[torn plaza]

welcome to fluid madness, enjoy your stay

[serene flare]

ugh

so you mean using the junction for all 4 slots ?

which part of the pipe manifold is the issue

It seems on the worst culprits the residue isnt leaving the machine because the pipes are full idk why tho

[torn plaza]

Junction Crosses cause flow to drop if there are too many machines being fed, which you can mitigate using a loopback pipe. It is a secondary pipe split from the main feed pipe which is then merged at the opposite end of the manifold; see the schematic below.

[torn plaza]

heavy oil residue will only be going at 200/min tops which should be fine and not need this back flow loop

might be a pipe segment that needs rebuilding

as for the other one that's at 97%, putting the loopback on the oil side should help

[serene flare]

This is the one thats the worst

The supply is fine, no issues there, for some reason the 4 on the right side excluding the top one are having issues with the fluid leaving

[torn plaza]

examine each pipe segment and make sure they're all full

might be one that's empty and bugged which needs rebuilding

aslo get rid of any valves if you have them

[serene flare]

should i be using any pipeline pumps if there is 0 head lift ?

[torn plaza]

only need them if you are going vertical, which I don't think you are

no valves, no pumps, just turn one of the fuel machines off for a bit so the pipes can fill up

then turn it on and it should work fine

or sloop machines to fill the pipes faster

[serene flare]

I don't think im quite that far yet

[torn plaza]

it's well worth getting sloops at any stage of the game

[serene flare]

oh yeah i have sloops i just have no clue what a sloop machine is lmao

[torn plaza]

oh, go research them in the MAM

c̶o̴n̷s̶u̶m̷e̸

[serene flare]

Power augmenter ?

or is there something after that

i just got computers automated so i guess i can do that

[torn plaza]

production amplifier

[stone delta]

Fluid buffers for fluid byproducts lose their fluids upon save reload. Is this true and how would one fix this?

[torn plaza]

not power augmenter, though that's good too

[torn plaza]

that's DEFINITELY a bug

either you have mods installed or your game is cursed

[meager kettle]

Not normally. If they do that's an unusual bug or a mod feature

[tight karma]

If I have a five way balancer on a 750/min input and my max belts are mk5, the input is gonna back up right? Are there balancers where this doesn't happen?

[outer vale]

if your balancer is doing the "feed some back to the input" then yes, that merged segment'll be trying 900/min

the obvious first thing'd be to not put it all on one belt in the first place

failing that, you could either just manifold it rather than try and perfectly split, or do something like split into two and perfect split each half separately, then recombine as appropriate

[tight karma]

So, I already have two belts doing 750 each, so that would become a big mess if I were to split those. Cuz that's just for coal I have to do the same for quarts

So I'd have to build like 8 manifolds

*load balancers

But I do need it load balanced cuz I have 5 600/min bauxite belts coming in each going to its own little sub factory

And if it's split equally if something were to go wrong I only have to troubleshoot one factory instead of one huge one

[torn plaza]

if it's split equally and one goes wrong, it'll just back up anyway

[heady sun]

look into blueprint autoconnect build mode

it makes them so much easier

[tight karma]

There will be an overflow line right before each sub factory

[unique cypress]

depends on the balancer

the shit ones won't handle that

the proper one will just fine

[frosty owl]

There's a bit of loss in flow when loading the savefile atm.
This doesn't lead to fluid loss, but it does lead to (eg) nuclear generators at max clock hiccupping after a few loads of the savefile

[tight karma]

do you have an example of a proper one then?

[tight karma]

very interesting, thx!

[tight karma]

I'm assumiing both mergers are prio mergers?

[unique cypress]

no, regular
it wouldn't be a balancer with prio

eh, maybe it would

not necessary either way

[tight karma]

cool

[stone delta]

https://tenor.com/view/what-hiccup-whos-hiccuping-dan-levy-david-david-rose-schitts-creek-gif-20805736

[teal tiger]

any complains about my train hub logistic for train IN and OUT Directions?

so 1 block are 4 train stations

[meager kettle]

24 trainstations? on one track line?

[teal tiger]

uhm kinda yeah

thats my route

maybe with the route it makes more sense

[tight karma]

I know it's nothing in the grand scheme of satisfactory, but think it's beautifull anyways

[mint coral]

if you go to SCIM and turn everything off. THEN click roads

it will show you all the dirt paths. they are great for getting around the map

[teal tiger]

yeah im building floating roads so that's not a big deal for me

[teal tiger]

is that something to overthink once again? cuz i'd start building now

[surreal dune]

how come this didn't use any of the uranium waste and only part of the plutonium?

[outer vale]

what would it use the uranium waste on?

[surreal dune]

it should be using it in plutonium production

[outer vale]

but you already told it how much plutonium waste you're getting

[surreal dune]

cuz if i don't the planner won't calculate anything

[outer vale]

Tools doesn't consider the nuclear rod -> waste burning as a recipe, so unfortunately you have to do that part yourself

I do hope that changes one day, but I understand why it doesn't

[surreal dune]

now i remember why i use the modeler

[outer vale]

as for why didn't it use all the plutonium, presumably it's bottlenecked by something else, likely SAM?

[surreal dune]

yea i didn't put in for any sloops so that's probably what accounts for that

[frosty owl]

Tools doesn't account for Sloops, you need to "manually" account for them (eg: adding a Reanimated Sam input based on your slooping plans for Reanimated Sam)

[grand lotus]

guys should i put the left most smelter or the right most smelter below 100%? or does it not make any difference

im comign back to satisfactory after awhile so i forgot a lot of stuff

[worthy willow]

It won’t matter

If you need one underclocked it can be any of them

[grand lotus]

oh i thought it did from what i remember

[worthy willow]

The only thing it would change is how fast it fills up in a manifold but that’ll balance out no matter what after time

[tight karma]

how compressed is to compressed?

[fervent spire]

abandon thine fear of clipping and you can go much further :^)

but that's very clean

[tight karma]

short elevators are the most clipping i'm willing to accept

and ty

[teal tiger]

is that how rail junctions work? can i even detect that with block signals?

[tight karma]

That's not considered a junction no

[teal tiger]

would i be able to turn that in a working junction somehow? like i wouldnt want trains to collide here lol

[tight karma]

I don't think crossings are possible like that, but I don't know too much about trains (in this game)

[limpid vapor]

Direction of travel unclear from the pic

[teal tiger]

maybe that picture helps

[limpid vapor]

24 stations?

Crossing entry and exit points?

[teal tiger]

ig yea?

[tight karma]

Okay so, hear me out

Have them enter at the top and exit at the bottom.....

[limpid vapor]

Probably would have smoother flow

This will work but will struggle with traffic more than the alternative