math-and-meta

[unique cypress]

Y'all use the codex?

[frosty owl]

(I am implying that "not choosing" and leaving the recipe is a valid strategy too; whatever eases one's mind 🤷‍♂️)

[knotty hornet]

Yes, and in exchange, I don't use any planning calculators

[unique cypress]

Ah, a masochist, then

[knotty hornet]

You already know, pencil and paper ftw

[frosty owl]

Or just someone who prefers focusing on the game rather than other things...
Oh wait, no, it's a paper preference...

[unique cypress]

I'm not planning this shit by hand

[frosty owl]

The weakness of your hand flesh disgusts me
||Disclaimer: I am not being serious, nor really disgusted||

[deft lichen]

I'd consider excel to be planning "by hand" and it's ...doable... with it

[unique cypress]

The closest to doing things manually I'm willing to go is Modeler

And only because it's the only graphing tool with easy mod support

[wind spade]

it's as valid answer as any other

and it kind-of pushes the people away from "there must be one better choice" into "oh, so I can choose any, and both are valid"

maybe because it's always been a free choice and there was almost never a recipe that was really bad (looking at alt plastic from U2 as only possible candidate)

[unique cypress]

I mean biocoal and charcoal are so niche that they're basically a waste of a drive for the vast majority of players

Automated miner before 1.0 was also pretty bad

[heavy gust]

No need to say more 🤠

[wind spade]

I'm not talking about "percentage of people using it" or "percentage of people thinking it was bad"

I'm talking about cases where the recipe is actually pointless, which is currently none, and only I can think of is the alt plastic from U2

both biocoal and charcoal (and autominer from pre-1.0) had their uses (which doesn't mean "always pick it, it's good", just "there is a valid use for these")

[orchid brook]

its fun

like i did it 3 times

[opal temple]

30mins in molder to come up with this. Now to put it in the game when im next on. The iron is annoying cause im just over on mk3 belts i think

[crimson moat]

i would strongly suggest ordering production left-to-right and avoiding overlapping lines for readability

[opal temple]

Honestly, this is the first time i've actually used this

[opal temple]

Can you show me an example of what you mean

[crimson moat]

that needs to be spread out even more but you get the picture 😄

[opal temple]

Gotcha gotcha

Wait. Base rotor recipe?

[crimson moat]

It's good

[unique cypress]

Iron-only, it's really not. Steel rotor is 0.74% more expensive, but takes 30-40% fewer machines to make

[crimson moat]

this build has basically zero weight on machine count 😄 but i didn't know it was that close, ty

[unique cypress]

I mean I usually don't care about machine counts at all either but I ain't gonna add extra ones for no reason

A <1% difference isn't "no" reason but it's not enough for me to care about it that much

Plus, if I cared about machine counts and resource efficiency, I'd use copper rotor

[crimson moat]

I've got slooped copper and a spare 50,000+ iron ingots. I think you'll tend to go that way based on the recipies and resources available in the world

if there was an "iron pasta", maybe not so much, but there isn't - so copper costs explode if you make p5 or ficsonium

[unique cypress]

Well, I'll be using about 20k iron and 20k copper ore for my build so I'm chilling in that regard

I'm more worried about the 6k caterium and 7k bauxite - I still haven't checked if I actually have that much left

[crimson moat]

70% of the copper, less than a quarter of the iron. Same issue, just at a scale where it doesn't matter as much

I'm building everything, and every recipe where i can replace anything with any amount of iron/limestone i do so, and there is still a massive copper shortage and iron/limestone excess when scaled up to world capacity.

[brisk smelt]

well there's not much challenge in that

iron is an infinite resource and copper isn't really

[crimson moat]

that's what i'm saying

copper has significant value, iron doesn't

[proud lintel]

wjat is this hell

[unique cypress]

My plan for a 10 TW power plant

[proud lintel]

thats insane

[merry sedge]

is turbo heavy fuel a better alternative for regular turbo fuel?

[knotty hornet]

No

Well, yes and no

If you can dilute fuel, it is definitely worse.

[merry sedge]

ah okay

thanks!

[wind spade]

All recipes are situational, there's no "better" or "worse" 🙂

[rough flame]

Satismathtory gang, I come seeking wisdom

Balancers or manifolds?

[knotty hornet]

The classic answer

[wind spade]

personal preference

[knotty hornet]

It depends

[wind spade]

(also, there's more options than just those two)

[rough flame]

I see, those are just the two I know about

[wind spade]

my personal opinion is that balancing is kinda pointless to do, as it gives not much advantage and takes more time and usually more space. However you can play however you want

but you can also do what I'd call "direct input" - if a machine makes 30/min, hook it to a machine that consumes 30/min (possibly clock them or use multiple to match)

[knotty hornet]

I do balancing on setups < 12 or 16 machines cuz I like the faster startup time over manifolds.

[rough flame]

Yeah honestly balancing feels better for me so that’s why I’ve been doing it more often, it feels weird to manifold because the outputs are gradually lower initially for some machines

It is good for storing finished items, though, I’m manifolding my uranium waste

[knotty hornet]

Manifolding is easier when the input >> consumption

But if the input is very close to or right at consumption, I like balancers better.

[wind spade]

in the end they both work the same, just takes a while for manifolds to spin up, but it's not really "wasted time", you can just do other things while it's filling up

[rough flame]

I see

Thanks for your wisdom guys

Not gonna lie I’m absolutely just sorta winging the ratios and math on my playthrough and not putting much thought into it lol

But this is great knowledge for improving my factories further

[wind spade]

there are production calculators that you can use 🙂

[rough flame]

Aye, link me yours and ill pin it to my bookmarks

[wind spade]

well mine is https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/

[rough flame]

Thanks dude I appreciate it

[ruby tulip]

I agree with all the previous answers, I just want to add, that sometimes using a balancer to feed multiple manifolds also has advantages.

[unique cypress]

I use both

At once, even

[jagged vortex]

If you use smart splitter manifold you don’t ever have to count machines and can just always over kill over build

That’s basically how I play factorio>fuck it put this line down with a bunch of machines it’ll work it self out

[opal temple]

What does the smart splitter do for the manifold

[jagged vortex]

Nothing other than keeping all machines running as much as the belt can supply

[opal temple]

Ah

[unique cypress]

... that already happens with regular splitters?

[crimson moat]

smart splitters won't have as much production variation on the end machines, like it will go 100/100/50/0 instead of 100/100/25/13/6/3/2/1. They won't touch the machines that aren't needed.

and they speed manifold warming by filling buffers sequentially rather than trying to fill many at the same time.

once you have them, why use the old splitter?

[ruby tulip]

normal splitters are cheaper to build.

and it's basically the only building(that you'll be building a lot) that requires Ai limiters.

[crimson moat]

There are a few! But 1 per splitter is really not a lot. Like how often do you actually build a manifold splitter? On my save i've built a splitter 0.3 times per minute and only a fraction of those are manifold splitters, so it's ~~0.2 AI limiters/min.

1 building at 100% clock automating them produces 5-8/min. I've never ran out and had to automate more in any playthrough, spending them as if they were infinite.

I can see it causing a bit of inventory management annoyance though before dimensional depots, taking a few extra slots

[stuck ingot]

hey not really a satisfactory question but related:
what to do if satisfactory modeler goes to all questionmarks and the little red stop button in the bottom right?
Cheers

[vapid gorge]

prob best to ask in their discord

[stuck ingot]

oh there is one?

[vapid gorge]

probably.

[stuck ingot]

alr i will look for it thx

[deft summit]

i think im going to make a habit of a lot of verticality in my factories

the benefits of using conveyor lifts are just massive

[vapid gorge]

jus thaving multiple floors is very convenient. It is a 3d game after all.

lifts are good for connectings sections sure

[unique cypress]

It means it's still calculating

[frosty owl]

Ironically, smart splitters are worse for balancing as they don't round-robin I'm very precise ways... 😅 so, yeah, for some things dumb splitters are better than smart splitters xD

[unique cypress]

I mean you don't even use smart splitters or priority mergers when building an actual balancer

Unless you're doing a universal one but I've never seen anyone make one in satisfactory yet

[tough ginkgo]

1.5 fmf per min

[crimson moat]

with priority merger you can make a simple sinkless, clogproof continuous supply of cannisters/tanks for a closed packaging loop

without even counting containers

as long as your storage bank is large enough to not completely empty (which may stall machines downstream), you can just completely fill it with containers and it will never clog because clogging always requires more containers than fit in the storage.

priority merger: high priority for tanks incoming from the unpackagers. Low priority for tanks from storage

smart splitter: all to loop, overflow to storage.

the cannisters will flow in a circle at belt rate. Whenever one comes in from the unpackagers it will insert itself via the priority merger, blocking the storage from depositing 1 tank on the belt and going through itself instantly.

I haven't seen anyone do this before, i was using another method before which was similarly simple but relied on sinking excess cannisters after adding more than you need in order to keep the belt clear.

With priority merger, sink is no longer required so it saves space and power.

It's also even more robust in edge cases such as feeding inconsistent numbers of machines, where the unattended sink method could oversink containers (in my case, smart splitter prio to one unpackager bank, overflow to a different unpackager bank to enforce gas priority).

[steel knot]

Is there an easy way to find out which machines are stuttering? I know it's not in satisfactory calculator (as far as I can tell). I'm trying to even out my power consumption a little

[dusky dust]

So long as you can get a good vantage of your factories, just watching the power bar indicators is probably your best bet

Though the green + yellow indicators can sometimes be a bit difficult to discern

Wish that difference in tone was a bit more pronounced

[wicked crater]

Is there a specific reason for the input/output of objects at a station to stop when a train is loading or unloading? Wouldn't it be more logical to maintain stable production if the input/output didn't stop until it was truly empty? I don't know, it's something that bothers me a bit about stations.

Also, is there a way to put this suggestion to a vote?

[dusky dust]

You can suggest anything you like at the Q+A site: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/ -- that's where the devs will see it. I assume that there may even be an existing post you could search for and upvote

In the end, though, the answer is just: because the devs wanted it that way. Mods are really gonna be your only way to change it, if it's something you don't like

Just kind of an intended challenge of working with trains, which otherwise have few downsides

[unique cypress]

go to the machines making the final product, check what they're missing. then check the machines making that item. repeat unti you find the source of the issue

[dusky dust]

You can even out the "dead" time by using ISC buffers on your stations, though the dead time does mean that you can't actually achieve a full 2x Belt Throughput on a single station

[crimson moat]

some kind of code spaghetti

It was said at one point that locking inputs was required to avoid some bugs(??) but drones were later added, and they do the same thing without any input/output lock.

it does affect train throughput a lot and make them considerably more complex without good benefit IMO

[dusky dust]

Eh, I'd disagree with "a lot." 27 seconds out of a whole round-trip isn't awful, and so long as you're ISC-buffering you'll never notice that unless you're trying to push all the way to 2x max belt throughput

Though it's definitely a semi-arbitrary-feeling complication, for sure. :D

[crimson moat]

If it worked like the drone load/unload, you'd be able to move 34% more stuff with the most standard use case (100 stack items). Up to +68% throughput on the worst case.

You also wouldn't have to screw with the train station settings to avoid trains docking too often, because it wouldn't matter (as it does not for any other vehicle).

[unique cypress]

idk about you but I would call that a lot (red is current, green is without a pause)

that's throughput per platform, stack size 100, mk6 belts, and 2 trains on the route

[dusky dust]

Okay, I will acknowledge that if your goal is "2x Max Belt Speed" on a car, then yeah, it can have a big effect.

But I'll maintain that in most use cases folks are unlikely to notice because that doesn't come up that often

[crimson moat]

If your goal is to use a third of the throughput that you've built, you don't really have to care much. If you're trying to run at 100% or even 50-75% you have to work around it in annoying ways which aren't consistent with the rest of the game, and make trains objectively quite a lot worse than they probably should be

[dusky dust]

(Again: I'm not arguing that it's not a somewhat weird-feeling limitation, or that drones aren't a bit nicer to work with in that regard since they don't do that. I just don't think it's nearly as big a deal as y'all are making it out to be, is all. :)

Like, it's just how the trains were programmed, and CSS wanted 'em that way

I've never felt like I was being cheated out of anything with trains. If you need more throughput, just add another car

It's not difficult. :)

[crimson moat]

From what i heard, they didn't want it but were forced to do it as a bug workaround in the alpha days - then it didn't get changed back after they figured out the tech.

[dusky dust]

For me, I generally don't like running any bulk logistics delivery too close to their absolute limits anyway, so it's never bothered me

[vapid gorge]

you'd never get 2 belts to a platform anyway, it would fill up in like 1 minutes

well I guess to a platform but you'd need to spam many trains

[dusky dust]

If I'm running that close, I'd be adding a second car/station anyway

[unique cypress]

well, with depart when empty/full, you absolutely can run right at the limit

[vapid gorge]

but yeah they aren't getting rid of the load time

[crimson moat]

Yes, but even at like half throughput you can have problems with trains locking the station loads so long and so often that it breaks your throughput.

Because of the resource lock, you have to do additional train workarounds and configurations.

[vapid gorge]

aint gonna happen, its part of the logistical problem solving and isn't actually hard to get around

[dusky dust]

That's your choice to do depart-when-empty/full. :D

Anyway, I'll be quiet about it; clearly it bothers y'all, and doesn't bother me. c'est la vie!

[unique cypress]

well, it's not that it bothers me that it exists, it bothers me that it still does when I sincerely doubt it has to

[dusky dust]

I mean, nothing in the game has to behave like it does at all

[crimson moat]

Yeah, quick fix one day that was just never revisited after the issue was worked out AFAIK

[vapid gorge]

that a problem solving and design challenge exists in a problem solving game? truly shocking

[dusky dust]

CSS just chose to code it that way. Maybe in alpha it was due to a bug or whatever, but clearly they decided that they liked how it worked, and kept it

[unique cypress]

I already made myself a calculator to account for it so it's not like it matters to me that much

[crimson moat]

did they though? I've never seen anyone related to the game or company actually say that.

[vapid gorge]

I'm pretty sure it's intentional and I find it hilarious you guys are baffled by it xD

they've modified trains and rails enough that they've had plenty of chances to and it's not like other vehicles can't accept items while loading

[dusky dust]

Did they... keep the 27-second "dead" zone for train loading/unloading? I, uh, think they did. Yes.

[crimson moat]

Referring to this part. "but clearly they decided that they liked how it worked"

[vapid gorge]

if it was a code thing why 27 seconds? it makes no sense

[crimson moat]

the last word that i've heard was snute saying that it was done because of a bug in alpha and they didn't really like it but it didn't work otherwise.

which is clearly fixed now w/ drones etc

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[dusky dust]

This is a case where IMO the game speaks for itself. As CobaltOfDoom mentioned, they did have plenty of opportunities to fix it, including an update which had significant train changes to it

The 27-second delay predates signals; if they're going to the work of dealing with signalling stuff, I can't imagine they wouldn't've changed the station behavior if they wanted it different

[crimson moat]

Don't quote the trolling over blocklists plz.

[vapid gorge]

and people who think manifolds aren't 100% efficient shouldn't be listened to, so ... you know

[unique cypress]

I'm surprised they didn't get yeeted yet

[dusky dust]

lol, I'm not going to refrain from mentioning someone actively involved in the current conversation just because someone might have them blocked. Cope. :)

[wicked crater]

I think you're overlooking something important. Building train lines is already too time-consuming to have to deal with something that, I suppose, can make working with stations more intuitive and convenient. I don't think stations need much more complexity than they already have.

[dusky dust]

Step 1: Attach an ISC to the station, with both belts connected. Step 2: Done!

[vapid gorge]

it's an important part of design.
It affects how many trains you want stopping and how.

[dusky dust]

(Step 3: if the station doesn't support your required throughput, add another)

[crimson moat]

<@&387163995947270144>

[vapid gorge]

also what apox said. You can make it extremely simple if you like

basically like everything in the game. You have full power over how complicated you make your systems

[dusky dust]

Like, it's just not a difficult problem to solve. I've already said I agree that it feels like a slightly-weird limitation; I wouldn't be complaining if CSS patched it away. But it is what it is, and it's not difficult to work around at all

[plush garden]

why the ping?

[dark badge]

beat me to it

was about to ask the same thing

[crimson moat]

these guys (Cobalt and Apoc) harassing me and KYO through block again by inserting themselves into every other conversation that we've having with a third party on here, including personal attacks etc.

[unique cypress]

I've never seen them say they want it this way, only that they had to have it this way. so it sounds like they still have to do it this way, or they haven't bothered to fix it yet. it's not like it's a huge issue, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just didn't want to spend devtime on it.

they have plenty of signalling issues right now and they did mention they want to overhaul trains at some point so maybe that's when that's going to get fixed. or not

[dusky dust]

lol, yes, mentioning that someone else exists is harassment.

[dusky dust]

Why did they keep the 27-second "dead" zone when they implemented signals in the first place? The behavior predates even that

At some point you've (generic "you," not you specifically) gotta acknowledge that design decisions that were made in the game 5 years ago and never changed are how the game intends to be

This isn't, like, hoverpack-turns-off-machines-while-switching-grids type weird behavior

IMO it's very clearly intentional, whether it was originally done to cover up a bug or not

I feel like I'm about to kick a hornet's nest again, but IMO it even goes back to our old Ficsonium argument. The game clearly has a specific niche in mind for Ficsonium. Just because people want Ficsonium to be different doesn't mean that it's not occupying its niche. This is the same thing: stations are simply meant to have that delay. (And like Ficsonium: whether that's a good decision or not is, of course, up for debate! But it's how the game is.)

[unique cypress]

to me it looks more like nobody bothered to touch the code in 5 years, but both of us are just guessing based on no reliable information so 🤷‍♂️

[crimson moat]

From what i've heard: It was a bandaid fix to make it work at the time (the input locking, double port input and output). The issue that it was working around was fixed properly later (hence drones etc), but they didn't go back and mess with it

[dusky dust]

Hypertube cannons were a bug which became a basically canonical game feature

[unique cypress]

that's because they fixed the bug and people got mad about that so they added it back in

[dusky dust]

They've had untold opportunities to change it if they want. There is no way 1.0 wouldn't've gotten rid of the delay if they didn't like how stations work right now

They're not gonna change that now, IMO. 1.0 was their last reasonable chance to do so

[crimson moat]

That's also a myth, it was never fixed and reverted. It was adopted as an official feature and intentionally recreated during early EU5 testing (internal dev build, not even pushed to alpha early access). It never actually went away in the playable versions of the game to be brought back by anything, let alone complaints.

Devs posted a video where they explained that UE5 didn't have the same physics quirk, so they intentionally modelled it as they considered it an emergent game feature. That's it, whole explanation was a couple of sentences apart.

There's praise for hypertube accelerators/cannons and emergent design from them, most recently that i've seen from Snutt after he left the company but was discussing earlier periods of development w/ LGIO videos.

[unique cypress]

yes way, actually. they explicitly said that they didn't want to touch trains in 1.0 because they felt like trains are good enough and they don't feel like they need to change anything for the 1.0 release

[dusky dust]

Not exactly a myth. Unreal Engine physics update did break them unintentionally, since they were never a part off CSS's tests, etc

But then they re-implemented them in the new system

So they were broken for awhile

[crimson moat]

I did not see that but would be interesting

[dusky dust]

Ergo, the 27-second delay on load/unload is good enough

[unique cypress]

and they said they're considering revisiting trains at a later time

[dusky dust]

That's literally them saying that they're okay with how trains currently behave

Anyway, time will tell, I guess

I just don't buy that the delay is even a problem in the first place, let alone to the degree that apparently some folks think it is. c'est la vie!

[unique cypress]

well, it's not like they're unusable in their current state. but that doesn't mean they couldn't be better

[dusky dust]

Shuttin' up: now. (We'll see if I do a better job at it than previous times when I've said that!)

[vapid gorge]

it's the same sort of thing that any degree of having to think around problems has people go 'kill it!'

[steel knot]

Yeah so basic audit. No way to do it through save file. Time to pull out the clipboard

[crimson moat]

Yeah, i don't think this information is contained within the save file at all

it's just calculated on the fly in the client(server?), in memory

[sharp otter]

so steel screws are really space efficent, but at the same time there aren't really alot of quartz nodes in the world

[crimson moat]

I'd reroll; if that's the reroll, it's now a "stuff i don't want so the next hard drives can't roll them" drive.

[unique cypress]

yeah, that's a "leave in the library forever" drive for me

[deft lichen]

that genuinely shocked me because the way tracks are built is really bad

an attempt was made in 1.1 but that sadly brought a truckload of bugs with it

tracks shouldn't require foundations to look any decent

building directly on the ground always looks terrible

and this isn't really the case with anything else, you can have an entire factory on the ground without clipping and have it look good

[vapid gorge]

that's not a crystal recipe I've found very many uses for honestly. I don't think there's often coal nearby?
imo it's a niche crystal alt recipe

the screw recipe is pretty flexible though as long as you use screw recipes. So really depends what youre aiming for next

[verbal oar]

Is there any way to improve the efficiency of the Copper/Quartz Only(with a little imported plates) computer line?

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=myOeXXD1gXd11eB8lGLA

[verbal oar]

Seems aligned for the most part minus stiched plates (I made a stupid factory that is producing surplus refined plates so I'm happy to just import them)

[vapid gorge]

you could make hte wire from iron instead?

cut that copper cost

and if you're using both crystal and silica you could see if the crystal purification recipe gives yo ua better yield?
the second process also produces silica and if you need both items it outputs more than Pure Crystal and Cheap silica do

[verbal oar]

Trying to restrict materials to copper/quartz as much as possible

[verbal oar]

god I wish, but that's next phase 😛

[vapid gorge]

fair 🙂

and yeah crystal purification looks fun xD

[dusky dust]

Still disappointed I forgot to use that anywhere on my 1.0 playthrough. Next time!

[floral mica]

Is it in any way more resource efficient?

I was thinking about using it for an all bauxite aluminum plant

[vapid gorge]

if you need both silica and crystal from it? yes

but if you need only one or hte other product, you're better off with Pure Crystal or Cheap silica

[floral mica]

Alright makes sense

You could probably get more of both if you use pure/cheap alts right?

[vapid gorge]

not from the same units of of material

it'll also depend on the ratios of each you need

[floral mica]

Okay makes sense

I'll mess around in modeler later

[vapid gorge]

comparisons between processes might be faster in tools? but you do you

[sharp otter]

Thanks

[verbal oar]

These pure recipes are giving me such weird overclocking %s I'm losing it

[vapid gorge]

learn to love decimals.

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, the Pures like to rub that in your face for sure

Good practice for not caring about decimals, indeed. :D

[verbal oar]

Never, discrete math is best math (second only to diff eqs and higher-order differentials)

[vapid gorge]

to be fair, I also hate the pure recipes but for completely different reasons

[floral mica]

I haven't really used tools before and never really considered using different calculators for different tasks, thanks for the suggestion

[floral mica]

I tend to just underclock machines to the nearest whole number

[vapid gorge]

keeping the decimals can help layout, reducing machine count and things. 🙂 Just keep notes as to what is going on

[floral mica]

I just tell myself it's worth it since it takes less power but maybe I should try to conserve space more

[vapid gorge]

I mean totally up to your personal likes.
space is effectively infinite
power is effectively infinite (and easy to make)

later with final factories I'll over clock everything as I don't like huuuuuuuuuge set ups

[floral mica]

I find I struggle with detail so I just go big instead and find it looks pretty good

I do mostly compact open air factories

[vapid gorge]

yeah everyone has dif priorities 😄

[fringe seal]

the "needed machines" count is discretized at 0.0001

[cosmic zinc]

what rotor recipe should i use for my tier 3-4 factory

[wind spade]

whichever you feel is best for your case

[knotty hornet]

i like copper rotors cuz steel screws is easy peasy

[steel knot]

I’ll use steel rotors when setting up motors because stators and rotors then share the same inputs

[ruby tulip]

depends on your already setup produktion and what you need really.
for motors e.g. steel rotors are quiet commonly used, together with the normal stator recipe, because of the same input items.
but in the end its totally up to you

[knotty hornet]

Steel rotors with Quickwire Stators and Cat Wire

[steel knot]

is this the best way to use left over diluted fuel for plastic and/or rubber? i've never tried

i usually involve resin

so weird

so i just kick start it with some plastic and let it run

[crimson moat]

1 plastic or 1 rubber would do it 😄

growth until fuel depletion is exponential

[steel knot]

that would be fun to watch

[unique cypress]

You need 6 for 1 cycle

[unique cypress]

Resin is normally involved but only because it's a byproduct of HOR production

[sturdy sage]

Is it possible to get 100% efficiency with main recipes?

(one I just don’t want to scan other recipes and two. I hate doing substitutions.)

I think using overflow splitting to different parts of the factory, and then the overflow of the overflow goes into the sink would work

[ruby tulip]

how do you define efficiency?

[sturdy sage]

Throughput, maxing parts

[ruby tulip]

machines, that run 100% of the time is possible with all recipes.

[unique cypress]

Defaults are 4.5x less oil efficient than the alt combo

[ruby tulip]

yeah. the amount of output per input will be way less, and the setup way less convenient.

[sturdy sage]

for instance, my factory plan would be to compile all iron ore then using overflow splitter run the exact amount needed for the ratio of specific parts for that recipe which would be the smeltery. And then from the overflow put another overflow splitter in which it runs for the perfect amount for the foundry. Any overflow from that would then just go into the sink

The only alternate recipes I’m gonna be using is further processing fuel.

But IDK

It makes sense once you see that layout, but I don’t have an image on hand

[ruby tulip]

I think what you wanna achieve really doesn't depend on the recipes, you would want to unlock machine clocking though.

[sturdy sage]

Already done and I have like a million power shards wish sommersloops were renewable though

[ruby tulip]

but still some alts add a lot of convenience and/or input/output ratio.

[ruby tulip]

than you should be able to achieve your goal without a sink, just by underclocking the miner.

[sturdy sage]

Where is the efficiency in that I get free sink points

[unique cypress]

You'd get more points if you made a more complex item instead of sinking basic parts that are basically worth noting

[versed violet]

Hm, I seem to have problem with radar tower. The hdd count is cut off. 😅 Think thats working as intended?

[sturdy sage]

All parts will have a slight overflow is what my set up is.

Doesn’t matter I’m gonna make a graph and then weigh the options

Thanks

[steel knot]

Yeah I could use it up as well. Need some more packaged water then

[sturdy sage]

How many times can you get the inventory upgrade from crash sites?

[versed violet]

afaik twice, 5 slot each

[steel knot]

Is there a train throughput plot that deals with fluids? Or how can I interpret the belt one for fluids. I’m pretty sure at mk4 it makes more sense to transport the fluid unpackaged since I have mk2 pipes but want to see what my limitations are with round trip time

[oblique hollow]

max for pipes is around 900/min with 2 mk 2 pipes connected

and theres only one stack size for fluids (because fluid)

[steel knot]

Ah got it. Not 1200

[vapid gorge]

Like belts, can’t do two full pipes per platform

[dense cloud]

@vapid gorge Heres the modeller thing i mentioned

[vapid gorge]

is this an accurate representation of how you've laid out the actual machines?

[dense cloud]

pretty close... although it just occurred to me that i have more one more rocket fuel blender than i'm supposed to so of course they wont all run, apparently i cant read. 🤦‍♂️ maybe once i change that it will balance out properly.

[vapid gorge]

ok before you do that though

you've got 2 incoming sources of turbo fuel

[dense cloud]

yes i have those connected in a loop

[vapid gorge]

No I was going to say - you should keep the TF made from waste compact coal feeding only a specific group of blenders, not linked up to any other turbo fuel

if you've merged the 2 sources in any way that could easily create a constant hiccup as it relies on the incoming waste

[dense cloud]

okay so i need to split each into a portion of the rocket fuel blendersi should be able to do that and i guess the extra blender will help with that since i will need to have a couple running at lower clock speed to get the numbers right

[vapid gorge]

Thats what I woudl do. Since you have 690 of the other fuel, have 2 groups of blenders use like... half of each, comletely seperate.
and a 3rd group using the compacted coal TF independent.
preferably run it's own dedicated fuel gens off them as well

when you're relying on waste product to run itself it's a Very good idea to keep it as isolated as possible

in general, with fluids, keeping sections as isolated from other steps is a great idea, but like 100x more important with this sort of recursion

It's not that it's impossible to merge them... but it's a tricky balancing act thats much more annoying

[dense cloud]

thanks for the help i'll see if that can smooth it all out

[vapid gorge]

well you can still get issues with changes in elevation in the pipe manifolds and loops and all that, but this should definitely help sort things out

[dense cloud]

honestly im just hoping to get the production closer to the numbers because as it stands i am struggling to run about 8 of the furthest fuel generators, and i havent even yet built the 140 the design says i should have enough fuel for

i should be able to build like 20 more fuel gens so thats a big deficit. If i can just get the production closer to fueling the designed amount i will be happy even if its not a completely perfect smooth production curve.

[vapid gorge]

fixing the middle steps is definitely needed first 🙂 you'll get there

the good thing about learning pipes on a fuel station is you can get it running 80 to 90% pretty easily at worst. Then it's a learning experience

[dense cloud]

now i just have to get the friend im playing with to stop building the most power hungry factories he can because "you made more power i have to use it up"

[knotty hornet]

Are they a shard fiend?

[dense cloud]

a little, moreso i needed more motors, so he built a motor factory using only a sam node quantum converted into all the ores necessary, instead of going to the area i had planned to build it in that had all the ore nodes in a nice little circle.

it works, it just sucks up like 10x the power necessary because of the quantum machines.

[vapid gorge]

why convert it all xD it's almost always more awkward bringing in SAM than it is to just import the right material

[dense cloud]

he did it because the sam was right where he was and he didnt have to run to the place i marked for the factory

[vapid gorge]

time to build a hyper cannon next to his offline body and fire him into orbit

[dense cloud]

thats hilarious.. will it work or it just will launch him next login?

[vapid gorge]

not sure honsetly? you can still interact with offline bodies like... murdering them.

not sure if the hyper tube entrance physics will work though.

you could try for science 🙂

[dense cloud]

i wonder if theres any chance i could aim it so he lands where i wanted him to build the factory....

[vapid gorge]

absolutely

even funnier if it only triggers once he logs in

[dense cloud]

yeah true

[vapid gorge]

I'm sure some people have found conversion recipes convenient, but I've never had a situation where it wasn't just easier to build a factory next to the actual resources I need

SAM is never in a nice spot with other things I need

[knotty hornet]

They do not work on logged-out bodies, but it will launch him when he loads in next

I have tried it

[dense cloud]

hes more of a josh type builder so i think he enjoys things being a mess.

as long as it works then hes happy regardless of how it looks

[sand epoch]

Or just drone in everything to w/e you want

[vapid gorge]

just drone in the material you need instead of SAM then 😛

[sand epoch]

Yup.

My map is covered in flying icons

[tawny swan]

Ok so I'm trying to figure out why my screws are not being replenished faster than being used. Doing a modular frame factory. We are using the train and hauling in screws from the steel factory, it's a very short train ride. The steel factory is far north west and the iron factory is just south of it. I can run from the steel factory to the iron factory before the train finishes docking. We leave at same time from steel factory. I bring this up because I think the issue is the short distance. Mk5 belts doing max into both feeds and out both feeds. But the screws are going down?

Saw someone talking about it above. Storage as buffer for the docking time, I do that on the offload side but I use both belts is it better to use one and more cars?

[unique cypress]

How many screws are you expecting to move per minute and how long does it take the train to do a round trip (in minutes)

[tawny swan]

I built to use 1560 a minute and I see your point now being that if it takes longer than a minute it'll go down, long conveyer belt runs better than short trains?

Buddy I'm building with swears trains are better but once the conveyer belt is full its like it's right there wherever the belt ends up no?

[unique cypress]

Yeah, 1560/min is exactly 2 mk5 belts. A single platform cannot handle that, ever. The absolute max is 1494/min (with mk5 belts and stack size 500). If you want 1560, you need at least 2 wagons. And probably at most 2 as well, because screws stack to 500, so they're easy to transport

[tawny swan]

At most 2 wagons? We are filling 4 😅

[unique cypress]

Do you have 4 trains or 1 train with 4 wagons?

[tawny swan]

1 train 4 wagons

[unique cypress]

Then that can handle nearly 6000 screws/min

[tawny swan]

It's not a loop just back and forth

Yeah the plan was 6240

Buddy said we will need to get to 21k + screws a minute eventually 🤷🏼‍♂️ I dunno I'm just decent at math and layouts just started playing

[wind spade]

the thing with screws is that you shouldn't do them like that (centralised)

[unique cypress]

Well, like I said earlier, the max per platform with mk5 belts is 1494 screws/min. So with 4 platforms, that's slightly under 6k/min total. Which means you need more than 4 for 6240

[wind spade]

(well you can but most people complain about it afterwards)

[tawny swan]

Gotcha thank you!

[tawny swan]

I've heard some things about screws are they really that bad?

[wind spade]

no

[wind spade]

screws are completely fine, just people build them in weird ways which then backfires

[unique cypress]

I mean they're generally expensive to make and use and transporting them can be a pain

I put them in the "not worth bothering with" bin

Especially because you can completely get rid of them if you want

[tawny swan]

Gotcha, we are making 1800 steel ingots so far w/mk2 miners figured we'd get plenty screws out of that transporting seems strange but I like the idea of long belts 😂

[vapid gorge]

Ship the ingots. Or the steel beams if using steel screw

[jovial wyvern]

What Cobalt said.

1800 steel ingots is 18 stacks of ingots. Making rods from these with the steel rod recipe gives you 7200 rods, or 36 stacks... more than the 32 stack capacity of a freight car. Turning these rods into screws gives you 28800 screws, or just under 58 stacks. It's best to transport the steel ingots and make the screws on the receiving end.

If you're using steel beams to make screws with the steel screw recipe you get 450 steel beams from your 1800 steel ingots, just over 2 stacks of beams. Those beams make 23400 screws per steel beam stack, or just under 47 stacks of screws. Make the beams from ingots, transport them, and make the screws at the receiving end.

[fringe seal]

How fast are the productions for your personal use for: AI limiter, High-speed connector, Computer

my calculator spitted out smth like 0.3/min for connector, idk if that is enough

[dusky dust]

Can take a look at the wiki page for High-Speed Connectors to see what requires them for building (and in what quantities)

[fringe seal]

iirc mostly mk3 poles

and geothermal

ah, also drone port and priority switch, ok

[unique cypress]

I'm making like 15/min but I'm insane

[dusky bronze]

10+ is overkill but any less than that and your storages take ages to fill

[storm imp]

Usually make 1 or 2 of the machine output @ 100% - which is enough for majority of the gameplay.. Don't get fooled if an item is like 1 or 2 per minute.. Once its setup, take a field trip and collect harddrives, mercer spheres, sloops or whatever.. once you're done you got plenty to use :)

[fringe seal]

ig I should make more

[meager light]

if I let it it all fill up before turning it on, would this work so my last few machines would get enough iron? I need a bit more iron in the factory I'm building and I'm far away from an other node and have not unlocked trains yet

[dusky bronze]

Yes but you’d want to get rid of the belt connecting the storage to the second set of smelters

[unique cypress]

I have no clue what this is supposed to be which means it's probably a bad idea lol

[dusky bronze]

I think that’s what’s happening anyways

[dusky bronze]

I think they’re just trying to get a storage container of iron ore and then smelting the rest?

I don’t really know why you’d need that tho

[meager light]

since it's only "extra" from the first set of machines, filling the storage container, I was thinking overtime, it would kind of work as if it was a second miner, it's kind of hard to translate to english or even just in words what I mean, sorry

[dusky bronze]

You’re good

There isn’t very much of a reason to collect raw resources, but if you really need the storage container it would be better to put it at the start of the manifold

[unique cypress]

a container doesn't produce ore, only stores it. so it doesn't do anything useful here

[meager light]

it seems I am not managing to convey what I'm asking, so I guess I'll just have to test it and see if it works 😂

[ruby tulip]

it won't make more ore, it just stores it.

[gray flower]

How much ore iron and Copper and Limestone fullyy overclocked all mk3 and 1200 per minute

[ruby tulip]

do you mean how much is on the map?

[gray flower]

no in the Dune Desert

ALL mk3 miner

i might want to redo the Dune Desert of ALL refeinrys

[ruby tulip]

go to the side satisfactory calculator and look on the "interactive map" there.

it's the easiest way to do it imo.

[gray flower]

i wasx going to say in total

[crimson moat]

you are, the storage container is just doing nothing except actively making the design worse

so people are asking why you put it there

[vapid gorge]

A look at the wiki or at tools

[gray flower]

i can't find them all so i am doing them now cobalt

[vapid gorge]

In satisfactory tools you just look at the inputs tab

In the wiki I think you just look at the miner page

[gray flower]

27000 iron ore 10500 copper ore and 11400 limestone ore if i am correct to make all into refinery way

[knotty hornet]

That's gonna be a shitload of water

[gray flower]

idk if i should do it tbh

[knotty hornet]

Nah, you already did the math

You committed, this is your life now

You can make pipe buses that are auto-connect compatible.

[dusky bronze]

your life belongs to the pipes now

[gray flower]

11400= 7600 concrete 10500= 26250 copper ingots 27000 iron ore 50140 iron ingots

ITS all rough guess atm

can u double check my math first

all Dune Desert Stuff

plus 2 nodes in Desert cayons and 1 normal node of copper

[unique vault]

sorry to interrupt but is this an alright ratio of parts for my first computer factory? (like are there any of these that i should be getting more of and if so should i sacrifice other stuff)

[wind spade]

I mean it's really your choice how much of each you make

[unique vault]

true

[dusky bronze]

i dont think you really need the circuit boards tho

[wind spade]

for most parts, around 2-5/min is enough, depending on how much you build things that need those resources

[dusky bronze]

iirc outside of computers they're only needed for crash sites

[unique vault]

oh fr? i thought i remembered them being used for something else

[dusky bronze]

nothing building related at least

[gray flower]

is this math correct

[unique vault]

are there any other components that need them? im doing a more satellite-factory thing with a train network so i can ship the circuits to another factory for something else

[knotty hornet]

I trust you

[gray flower]

idk if the Dune Desert can do it

[gray flower]

I want someone to look over my work incase

[dusky bronze]

they're used in some phase 3 stuff and by extension phase 4 and 5, as well as some alts and maybe a few other things

in that case it would be a good idea to hold on to them

[unique vault]

alr
ill probably keep them then and when i extend my trains i'll ship them to the space elevator

[gray flower]

idk if i should do it and idk if i should do it

[vapid gorge]

flip a coin.
do you want to do it?

[gray flower]

i am already working on modeling it so its a yes cobalt

[vapid gorge]

then do it?

[gray flower]

ill be working on it slowly

and 2 its night time

[vapid gorge]

so?

[wintry jewel]

i have bad news for everyone
(assuming all raw resources are brough to a central processing location) fused wire is the most efficient wire recipe and not iron wire as it has the highest output:input ratio

[vapid gorge]

only if you consider each input of equal value which is a hell of a claim

[gray flower]

going to bed shortly 😛

[vapid gorge]

that still doesn't matter in the decision process of a project.

I assume you're not going to die when you go to bed

[unique cypress]

Assuming all resources are worth the same, maybe

But if you truly bring everything to one place, you're gonna have way more iron than copper and caterium

[gray flower]

i am hoping they do more to the uobject limlt

[unique cypress]

I'm hoping they fix the leaks first

[gray flower]

me to

ik u can up it but i feel thats uhhh

[unique cypress]

The game starts lagging when you get close to the default limit. I imagine it's barely playable when you go past it

[gray flower]

i often have to save and reload my save

when i am working on a big project like my new Refinerys stuff

if i add 1567 or 1568 refeinrys total my game my be laggy

[ruby tulip]

I counted 300 more copper and 300 less iron in the dune desert.

you'll probably want to go to the south east, near the water, and prepare some good working blueprints with autoconnect.

[cerulean stratus]

I wonder
The lasagna pattern
What happens when you need to move stuff between floors?

Hmm I could have 3 floors

• manifold floor
• intermediate floor
• Bus floor

[wind spade]

bus 🤢

[minor orchid]

yay

[steel knot]

Nice! I remember slooping and sinking all my phase 5 parts to get the last couple hundred

This playthrough I have sinks everywhere

[gray flower]

so 24000 iron and 10800 copper

[ruby tulip]

i conted 26700 iron and 10800 copper.

[steel knot]

When you have an AI limiter factory that services several other factories by train, what are some ways to dole it out? I could have a platform for each factory, but are there other ways?

[wind spade]

I don't have AI limiter factory that services other factories 🙂 I make AI limiters in factories that need AI limiters

[steel knot]

Yeah that’s what I did first playthrough. Shipped the caterium around

Shipping ingots makes it easier to “manifold”

[fringe seal]

• freight car for each factory
• train for each factory
• one train. treat it like a manifold, trust that it will fill up with long enough time

[hazy hill]

if i connect coals, i get an infinity loading. any tips how to fix it? i have a little scheme and nothing highlighted orange

[unique cypress]

manual or full mode?

[hazy hill]

wdym

[unique cypress]

the setting for the calculator

[hazy hill]

full

[unique cypress]

then that's probably why

you've got a lot going on so it takes a while for it to do full calculations

[hazy hill]

yes but it calculate all in 1sec without this connection. this connection ruin all and it need a really long time to calculate (2 hours at least).

but maybe i need to make all scheme so it can calculate everything nicely

how to start Manual calculation?

[unique cypress]

in the settings in the top right

[hazy hill]

i need to put part limits to make it work? okay

[thorny shoal]

do you think i should use a train to connect the 3 small houses to the big one or a long conveyer will be alr?

[unique cypress]

yeah, in manual mode, it doesn't do splitting calculations, so the values have to be unambiguous. you don't need to set all of them, but you need to set just enough that there's only 1 possible solution

[fringe seal]

imo that's belt distance

also consider that trains take ~28sec to dock

[thorny shoal]

mhh... in the end im gonna have to connect with a train line to main base anyway

but yeah

[gray flower]

Did u add the 2 1200 lines on pure and 1 copper line

[gray flower]

@cinder silo i am thinking doing dis

Idk about making it overclocked

[cinder silo]

😱 🥶

[gray flower]

first idk where to put it and 2 do i need to redo my floors

[ruby tulip]

for iron i counted all of those.

[ruby tulip]

and for copper all of those.

[ruby tulip]

south east of the dune desert would be good for water i think. than you also could include the swamps iron.

[gray flower]

swamps iron and such is for nuclear

[hazy hill]

hmm why i cant connect them

oh it is different items

[vapid gorge]

Pretty sure modeller has its own discord of you keep having issues

[hazy hill]

yes it have (searched now). but i think i can get an answer faster here

[orchid brook]

ok so half on my fuel gens are working and the other not

[sharp otter]

what would be the most flat and resource rich spawning point?

[wind spade]

hard to say, usually those with more resources have less flatness

[sharp otter]

what about the desert?

[wind spade]

also you don't really need too many resources in spawn point anyway, as by coal you're supposed to expand, so starting location becomes less relevant

[sharp otter]

makes sense

[vapid gorge]

Anything but northern forest

But doesn’t matter, build multiple floors

[fringe seal]

if nothing works, skyfactory
though tbh I will never do skyfactory myself

[vapid gorge]

Sky infrastructure is a loss condition

[fringe seal]

true

[unique cypress]

Nah, it's a "idgaf about aesthetics condition"

[deft lichen]

Sky factories are a skill issue

[ruby tulip]

and tbh stuff, that follows the terrain really isnt hard.
especially trains are just a matter of 1 find a path and 2 spam blueprints.

[vapid gorge]

it isn't at all, just gotta plan a bit

main issue people will build a couple factories with no thought about connections, and then be left with less than great options

[grim crane]

guys a question
What is the best Train to Distance trageld to throuput ratio?

Because i feel like i might have to many trains on my network for smaller routes i could slash

Like yes i have 5 alu trains going from the Greenlands to the desert but those are supposed to transfer tons of Alu over the map 💀

[dusky bronze]

there isnt really a need for anyone to keep track of that

if you need more just make the train bigger or add more trains

[grim crane]

i have congestion issues 💀

And without the better train pathing mod my Train network would collapse

[dusky bronze]

and if you end up with too many trains then find a way to expand the network

[grim crane]

my main intersection is kinda... Inside my facory

[dusky bronze]

how much room are you leaving with signals before intersections

[grim crane]

like uhh

One blueprint worth
Thats not the issue

the issue are my Main train hub and my main intersection

[dusky bronze]

leaving about 20 foundations before intersections makes it so that they basically dont have to slow down when they're going through

[grim crane]

My problem is more that this part has to handle like 25 trains 💀

and it has now been working better and better with me adding more bypass lanes
And the Dynamic train routing mod ofc
but i wanna just reduce the amount

Thats why i am asking
i just dont want to have random issues again because trains stack back from the Stations

Because two trains to the same station somehow are there at the same time

[dusky bronze]

there are a couple train wizards here but all i can think of is adding more bypass lanes

[grim crane]

it has been running smothly now since i revamped it
so like 12 hours
but you never know

[dusky bronze]

one thing that could maybe help is to make it so that only trains that are coming from that factory have to go through that intersection

[grim crane]

Yeah so emm

[dusky bronze]

like cut it off and make sort of an intersection network around the factory

[grim crane]

This is my main factories supply hub...
this is where 90% of the trains need to go

[dusky bronze]

ahh

[grim crane]

its in the back there
what i need to fix tho is the small station on the right, its my PlutoAlu train and it has 4 of it now...
and its kinda in a stupid spot
becaue it loops in and out of the same lane

Also the train ist stupidly long

[unique cypress]

set the trains to only depart when empty/full. that makes sure they don't drive unless they have to

[grim crane]

Wait they can do that??

[vapid gorge]

it sounds like you never learned how to set up rails then and are relying on this mod cause too much traffic should neveR be an issue

[grim crane]

honestly that could also lead to more issues lol...

[unique cypress]

but you'll need to make sure all wagons of a train are loaded and unloaded at the same rate, otherwise you'll lose throughput instead of gaining it

[grim crane]

Tbh my old train network worked a lot better evcen without the mod 😭
WITh double the trains
I just did a oopsie with where i placed the intersection early game and never kinda revised it since...
And i just keeped building around it
So its now kinda

Id need to somehow reroute the trains completly so i can rebuild this

[vapid gorge]

even a roundabout, the worst of the intersections, shouldn't cause an issue

2 rails, a train going A to B and back, regular intersections. Should never see any issue unless you've got hundreds of trains accross the whole map

[grim crane]

Talking about roundabouts..
I need to redo the signals here 😭

[vapid gorge]

I can imagine the dynamic train mod is a patch on a sinking ship at this point

just have a regular intersection than whatever this is

[unique cypress]

throughput with default settings (red) and depart when empty (green)

[grim crane]

It worked great when it was only 3 ways active..

[unique cypress]

oh yeah it's bad lol

[vapid gorge]

... why 3 here??

yeah SF trains are super easy. They just take the shortest route. Have a 2 lane main track, some branches going to factories as needed off it. Dynamic does not help

[grim crane]

One was supposed to be a bypass lane from the 10 trains coming from the building

[unique cypress]

did you never notice that trains slow down significantly when approaching it

[vapid gorge]

something like factorio where you have dynamic production and consumption ? sure. But not here

[vapid gorge]

did they have their own station each?

[grim crane]

Most
i also have like 2 per LONg route

Example...

[vapid gorge]

then you'll need a wait space in front of them just in case, that's the worst of it. Often easier to just have a longer train at that point too. But you have options

or an extra station.

[grim crane]

oh that one has

[vapid gorge]

extra station to avoid 2 trains stopping at a particular station

splitting the throughput

[grim crane]

I honestly need to redo the station building
But the belting 😭

[vapid gorge]

all design choices 🙂

[grim crane]

Mhh
im gonna just see if i can reduce the amount of trains per route first i will be honest
Idk if i need 5 trains for Bauxite

[unique cypress]

The belts are one thing. The balancers you'd need to run "depart when empty/full" are another

[grim crane]

Maybe i start here...

[unique cypress]

Yeah, might wanna calculate how many you actually need

[grim crane]

They are the second longest route here
And by far my highest througput train

Like by nearly double
the next highest is like a bauxite train with 2400
this one is supposed to have a througput of 4200 per minute on 6 cars 💀

[grim crane]

Wait where do i turn this on?
i have like never seen this

[unique cypress]

in the stop settings in the timetable

make sure you set the wait time to "and 0 seconds" too

[grim crane]

Uh i need to do this manual for every train 😭

[unique cypress]

correct

[grim crane]

Im just gonna do that for the rly long trains ngl
i dont feel like doing that for every single one

thx thx

after that i will tacke that one horrible intersection

[unique cypress]

let's just say you're definitely covered lol (assuming mk6 belts and stack size 100)

[grim crane]

lets not even talk about it otherwise

[grim crane]

the round trip is like about 10 minutes
So yeah should work

im gonna do 2 trains for it

[unique cypress]

the biggest benefits are when you do it for all trains tbh

[grim crane]

Im just gonna force delete all my trains and redo it train by Train basis

[unique cypress]

that's with 2 trains

[grim crane]

Its less?
or is this per Train

[unique cypress]

ofc with 2 trains it's less than with 5

[grim crane]

Oh this is for 5

What is it for 4?

[grim crane]

cool

What do we think about this intersection btw?

Btw the spiral is only handling one train so it should not be a issue at all

[vapid gorge]

you can compact it more, bit over engineered, but don't see anything actually wrong with it

[grim crane]

K k
i dont rly need it to be more compacty here tbh
Its just a bit empty plot of land that had to be filled somehow

i should also mabye revamp the other intersection i speedbuild on some liquor...

https://tenor.com/view/jeremy-clarkson-sometimes-my-genius-top-gear-gif-22875674

I guess it works

[vapid gorge]

yeah doing rails w/o dynamic mod is ... really easy. You're just making life hard on yourself I think

[grim crane]

Ok the two actually shit intersection i did before i even knew the mod existed lol

[vapid gorge]

that doesn't make it better xD

[grim crane]

I aint joking if i say i did these half drunk when 1.0 released

I could reroute the bypass lane fully for the bauxite and just do a bypass for the exit too so it does not need to go throught the "roundabout"

Train elevators When

[vapid gorge]

you can make them now.
station at the bottom of a cliff, station at the top, belt lifts trading items

[grim crane]

I have been thiking about doing that
but like a true elevator would look so cool

[vapid gorge]

generally just much easier to design factory locations to avoid face on cliff trains

[grim crane]

And much cleaner

[grim crane]

Yeah i wanna maybe route a train back here...
way less up and down

But it would make the tracks longer

[quick gorge]

sneaks in what are y'alls thoughts on fluid trucks?

[grim crane]

we need bigger fluid trains 😭
if i see one more packager i will delete this game

[vapid gorge]

don't build packagers then

[grim crane]

Than pls have bigger fluid cars for trains

[unique cypress]

Even more useless than regular trucks

[vapid gorge]

why? winds up being basically the same since you need another car to bring back empties

[quick gorge]

Eeyup.. felt that

[grim crane]

who said i need to

[grim crane]

I build one truck lane ever
and it could been a belt

[quick gorge]

Like in ma project i want to use at least one of each thing... meaning fluid trains... meaning fluid trucks 💀
Fuck

[vapid gorge]

gross
but still, suck it up

[unique cypress]

same, except I built 2 and both 4-5 years ago

[grim crane]

Also one packaged fluid car is way more efficent tho or not?

Like by a LOT

[vapid gorge]

not if you're sane and bring back empties

[unique cypress]

eh, I wouldn't say a lot. 2x for liquids, 8x for nitrogen (ok, that second one is a lot)

[quick gorge]

Huhuh same. Both for testing.

I love forcing myself to have points of critical failure in my build for the sake of including everything.

[grim crane]

Not a lot..
8x

[vapid gorge]

tha'ts gas. That's different.
you shouldn't use fluids cars for gas, not because it's less 'efficient' but because gasses really fucking hate buffers

[unique cypress]

not a lot for liquids

and it needs double the stations so

[grim crane]

not if i just sink it :)

[vapid gorge]

again, gross, and you don't trully care about anything being 'efficient' at that point so it's not a good train argument either then

[grim crane]

i care about my production running at 100%
if i needa use a lot of sinks in the processs
Sacrifices have to be amde

[quick gorge]

The only thing I want to see is train wagons have double quadruple the amount it can hold and apply the same logic to trucks.

[grim crane]

Nothing about these two systems is "efficent"

[vapid gorge]

then you shouldn't care about needing an extra car for fluids.

pick a different argument

[grim crane]

Train leanght is diffrent

[vapid gorge]

if you're shredding whatever containers you're using your argument about train length efficiency is not credible and just sounds trollish

[grim crane]

Also who sais i would not just still have the extra car
Just to better spread out the resource

[grim crane]

Its not
trust me 😭

I just have sadly dictated a max train leanght to myself because tism and thats what i needa go with

[quick gorge]

"Because tism" is valid.

[grim crane]

SEEE

[unique cypress]

it's not like you're likely to need more than 6-8 wagons

[grim crane]

i try to max it out at 6
My 4 longest are at 8..
Mostly because i needed 6 for througput and 1 extra because it was painfully slow uphill

[unique cypress]

If the route is long, add more trains instead

[grim crane]

I should do a cross map train highway..
That would save so many km

[quick gorge]

I hope they actually fix fluids tho.
Fixing a problem with another problem child is.. a problem.
Happy I didnt build my reactors yet 💀

[grim crane]

Just do a reactor recycle water system

Its basically just a reason to make many sexy belts for no reason at all

Mhhh belts

[chilly mauve]

Soo, I'm planning an oil factory that takes 6k Oil, and turns it into 900 Turbofuel and over 8k rubber/plastic each. Turns out I now have to fit over 1100 Refineries into my factory... Luckily I can fit 250 to 280 per floor, so I can actually separate process steps by floor really nicely over 5 floors 😄

[grim crane]

Ahh
the good old refinery

Slowly untangling this web of tracks
the two stations will now split the load of that small station betwenn the two buildings
And also free up a lot of waiting space

[wintry jewel]

fellas, i bring news
with the assistance of Gemini AI to find the most efficient recipes (with the assumption that all raw resources are brought to a central production location) it's possible to automate the 50 APMs/min for all 10 APAs and then some without using production amplification the only downside i could determine when it comes to raw resource cost is that it uses nearly all the quartz on the map
and before anyone says anything about "resource worth", stfu, i couldn't give less of a shit about that bs

[dusky dust]

Why boil oceans with neural networks when we've got solvers which are custom-built for those kinds of problems? Here's 85/min APM: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=cNDahdvi7ujO6GSzj2d1

[wintry jewel]

because i like figuring this shit out and not having a website do all the shit for me, it's why i prefer Satisfactory Modeler

[unique cypress]

"i like figuring this shit out" "with the assistance of Gemini AI" 😂😂😂😂😂

[wintry jewel]

im not comparing hundreds of output:input ratios

[dusky dust]

I mean either way you're using external tools to compare things for you

The difference is that sftools doesn't boil oceans to do it, and you don't have to fact-check it

You could use sftools to do "localized" comparisons without having it solve the whole chain, if you didn't want to just have it spit out a fully-formed answer

[wind spade]

tools don't require you to do that (modeller does)

[wary tulip]

So if fluid trucks are coming,.. are they going to have a higher density of transportation as compared to the packager?

[wind spade]

you have all the info we have

[wary tulip]

So nothing but a teaser video. Alrighty.

[unique cypress]

considering that liquids have an established "stack size" of 50, I don't think so

[cold flower]

maybe a complicated train question.
If I were to have a lot of trains going around the map on the same track network.
Would it increase throughput if there was a second layer of two tracks that the trains could change to and from, or would that just confuse the train logic.

[wind spade]

not really, since trains always pick shortest route

you'd have to really carefully design the tracks so that trains would actually use both of them roughly equally. Not worth at all

[cold flower]

hm ok, was just thinking of how to best plan out a large network, as I'm trying to understand how the train logic works etc

[wind spade]

I wouldn't "plan a network"

if you need trains to go from A to B, build a rail from A to B.
if you later need trains that can reuse part of that rail, feel free to reuse it
build the network by not building in ahead of time, but rather letting it evolve over time

in the end you'll have rails exactly as you need them, rather than having a network that's possibly not optimised for your desired throughput and such

[thorny shoal]

first automated supercomputer 💪

that has been one hell of a ride

[knotty hornet]

This is the funniest, least self-aware thing I've read in this discord lmao

[hushed kettle]

if there's something you shouldn't trust AI on (more than everything else) it's math stuff tbh

[latent flare]

Just wondering, is 2400 plastic and rubber enough for the rest of the game

[unique cypress]

depends how much plastic-using stuff you make

[latent flare]

I just want to have enough so I dont have to worry about it ever again. My last save it was a constant issue

[wind spade]

if there's something you shouldn't trust AI on (more than everything else) it's math stuff tbh everything

[vapid gorge]

That makes zero sense
Modeller does the same thing as tools except you add every node manually. You still don’t ’figure it out’ any more or less than tools except you choose it all at once with tools and it takes a few seconds

Especially if you try to use a chat bot

[vapid gorge]

It either is or not.

If you’re planning on being ‘done’ with the game after phase 5 then you can lump through with basically any amount especially if you buffer the excess and don’t sink things

If you make it a sandbox game after whatever you make now will almost certainly not gel with whatever goal you set anyway.

[wind spade]

usually I'd recommend the opposite - make what you need at the moment, don't care about future

[dawn beacon]

Can someone explain the conveyor speeds and mining lol.

If I have 4 mines producing 240 ore per minute that goes into 24 smelters, will t4 belts that move 480 per minute be able to handle that?

It’s basic ik, but my wires are crossing thinking about it😂

[versed violet]

4x240 is 960 so you need two 480 belts to handle that.
Press n ingame to call up calculator

[dawn beacon]

I understand math

I guess my question comes from a form of

If one machine is backlogged, does conveyor efficiency increase meaning you can extend more than 12 smelters

Does that make sense?

[versed violet]

belt can transport at most what the label says. You need enough capacity to supply all the machines connected or they will begin to stop. regarding manifold fill times, just keep everything off until the buffers are filled then turn it on and all should go smoothly.

[wind spade]

no, the belt from miner can still only do 480

[unique cypress]

Take the amount of ore you have on the belt, divide it by what 1 smelter consumers and that's how many smelters you can put on that belt

[vapid gorge]

It doesn’t sound like you have enough smelters either

[crimson moat]

i figured out another use for fertile uranium

non-fissile uranium requires silica, which requires quartz. With Fertile it's possible to make plutonium with no quartz, so 1 fewer resource.

and as for why you'd make plutonium with those kinds of recipies.. it achieves 240 GW with 48 waste per min, while doing that with only uranium, no matter the recipe, would generate 960 waste per min (20x).

That means that 1000 ISC's will store the waste for 8333 hours instead of 416 hours.

[versed violet]

Unless, your goal is to use up as much uranium waste as possible (recycling/neutralization), then basic recipes are best.

[crimson moat]

currently looking at simplicity - few production steps, few different types of resources used

because i realised that max uranium efficiency nuclear is so much harder than using the "inefficient" recipies, to the point where it really doesn't make sense to recommend the uranium-efficient ones to somebody for their first projects.

By spending more uranium which is easily harvested, and more of some resources that you're already using, you can cut out so many resources and production steps

[crimson moat]

It is still laughably complex lol

[crimson moat]

this can be simplified a bit (duplicate nodes like control rods)

Input:
267 baux
615 caterium
391 coal
244 copper
1556 iron
1512 limestone
576 nitrogen
816 sulfur
1200 uranium
27,167 water

Output:
240 GW
48 plutonium waste

Does NOT consume:
oil resources (plastic, rubber, coke etc)
quartz
SAM

can trade e.g. some iron or caterium for copper if convenient.

If importing aluminum, you don't have to import coal to the plant too - just send some extra aluminum ingots and make aluminum beams instead of steel.

[versed violet]

could drop the pure ingot recipes for simplicity too. too much space and power for not much benefit

[crimson moat]

If possible, yes. Just depends on where you can actually build this, that needs a close look at the game map and nodes 😄

it's possible that like 2x of some resources are sitting there and you can easily tap them, but also it could be that using non-pure on something forces you to do an extra import from 1.5km away or use a less optimal location for other resources

[versed violet]

Only going to matter for caterium (and then you can just pad with copper via fused wire). Pad copper with iron using copper alloy and for iron just basic recipe, because iron is so plenty you are going to hit another node with your building before you finish the factory.

[crimson moat]

Limestone too, but wet concrete is easy to do

[versed violet]

if water available, wet concrete has a big output compared to constructors

[crimson moat]

As a bonus, few alts are needed (compared to "efficient nuclear") and there isn't really anything critical in there, although pure aluminum ingot and fertile uranium are needed to delete quartz (and not having fertile uranium would require a new plan)

otherwise it's optional stuff that might make your life a bit easier without fundamentally changing what you are doing

[versed violet]

enacsed pipe, iron pipe, iron wire, solid steel and wet concrete are likely to be in everyone arsenal because how useful they are.

pure recipes - depends on user. I find the power/size tradeoff not worth it, until I max all the nodes on the map at least.

[crimson moat]

Yeah i would generally agree, it can be really useful for avoiding an extra import sometimes though

like if you have 600 caterium but you'd need 700 if you used regular smelting, and you're already building on/at water. Some refineries are a lot easier than going to get another caterium node.

[versed violet]

Converter exists 😁

[crimson moat]

not in p4, and not without adding SAM 😄 which itself is usually an import

[versed violet]

importing is not that big problem at tier where nuclear is unlocked - player is kinda expected to have figured out bulk transport by then. Always problem with numbers not quite lining up tho.

[crimson moat]

Best minimised

this area with mk.3 miners and mk.5 belts is more than sufficient for 240 gw

looks like the place

Might do this early p4. Underwater waste storage 😛

It also does have quartz

[eternal lagoon]

This balancing will be fun

[vapid gorge]

easy. Just use manifolds

[unique cypress]

Why only 160/min? Surely you have belts that are much faster than that

[eternal lagoon]

If only

[eternal lagoon]

You'll see

I have 12 belts at 600/min and I need to get that to be 45 belts at 160 a min, and giant arry of belts is nice

[orchid brook]

can i have a 600 pipe of rocket fuel split up in a junction, one going to 44 fuel gens and one going to 100 fuel gens?

[unique cypress]

maybe, but it would definitely be better if you split it exactly in half

[orchid brook]

idk cuz i am already mostly done and problems just keep poping up and idk what to do

[vapid gorge]

Make two pipes , splitting manifolds can be wonky

[orchid brook]

same problem

i have time so i am just gone let it overflow

if it doesnt then i will just re-build the thing

[wind spade]

I'd rather build machines in groups that use 600

[cosmic quarry]

<@&387163995947270144>

[vapid gorge]

how is it same problem? have 2 different pipes feed 2 different groiup of machines

[orchid brook]

i have to add/rebuild stuff

[oblique hollow]

You could have tried valves

[orchid brook]

like i wanna a solve it without changing the thing

[oblique hollow]

2 Valves, each one set to exactly what the 44 gens / 100 gens slneed

Its not that much if a change compared to what you have

Literally just 2 valves and then a test period of like 30 minutes

[orchid brook]

oo mabey

[agile bobcat]

planning out a maxxed nuclear power plant, and while I am familiar with satisfactory - I have not done tier 9 yet and am unfamiliar with the amount of SAM they give you

is this possible, purely in terms of is there enough resources in the world

[vapid gorge]

I assume the planner would tell you if it's not possible?

[agile bobcat]

I recently discovered this modeler thing on steam

I don't know if that does

[vapid gorge]

yeah it's... not a planner. More of a layout machine

[agile bobcat]

ah

[vapid gorge]

very manual

[agile bobcat]

Then I haven't come across that planner tool

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[agile bobcat]

thank you

[vapid gorge]

takes a little bit of practice but you can spit out plans in 2 seconds

alter total resources available, that sort of thing

but if you look at all the tabs and things you can check or uncheck, inputs you can manually put in if you really want, it's pretty self explanatory

[agile bobcat]

I put in the product i wanted to achieve (94.5 ficonism rods a minute) and it said it cant do that

i also put in 1 rod a minute and it said i couldnt do that either, so i must be missing something

[vapid gorge]

you need to probalby put in alt recipes + the actual waste from the plutonium

as the waste being made isn't technically a recipe

[agile bobcat]

ah it worked

[vapid gorge]

it looks like you need 1 plutnoium waste per ficsonium so easy conversion

ah and 2 ficsonium per rod
I don't bother with the stuff personally

[agile bobcat]

what do you do with your plutonium waste?

[vapid gorge]

I don't make it xD
I'll either sink the plu rods, or burn them in Drones/trucks

[agile bobcat]

ah

[vapid gorge]

plutonium rods were introduced later into the game so that people could get into the nuclear system with an option for zero permanent waste

which was a really good idea.

I didn't do nuclear because I didnt like the waste

[unique cypress]

If you sloop it, there is. But fyi 94.5 Ficsonium is not the max

[agile bobcat]

this makes ficonium sound like a bit of a gimmick

[vapid gorge]

But then people bitched about plutnium waste

even though there was nothing forcing them to burn it...

[vapid gorge]

basically

[agile bobcat]

no its just the most i could see used with all the uranium in the world

[vapid gorge]

make some ficsonium rods if you think it'll be fun. If not.. eh totally forgettable

[agile bobcat]

that is a shame to hear

[unique cypress]

Max Ficsonium is 112 if you're aiming for max power or ~153 if for max Ficsonium

[agile bobcat]

I guess my plutonium fuel rods could just fuel drones or something

[vapid gorge]

eh, it was put there for people who couldn't stop themselves from burning the p rods. Maybe for an extra alien twist.
It's not a great energy trade and uses a ton of resources

[agile bobcat]

not doing either, but thanks

[agile bobcat]

yeah the numbers dont seem worth it

i also want to have my other factories

[vapid gorge]

yup 😄

[agile bobcat]

and this would use ALL the sam in the world

so i couldnt do anything else

wonder if theres a way i could add more sam to my world

[vapid gorge]

mods

slooping

[unique cypress]

Yeah, it'll either use all SAM or all Sloops

[agile bobcat]

this game has been very well thought out so far in terms of resource usage

but this seems like a bit of a misstep

[vapid gorge]

nah like I mentioned, it's a gimmick thing for people who do things they don't have to and be sad about it

[agile bobcat]

uranium being the bottle neck is pretty logical, but introducing this later on and also having it be crucial for tier 9 is odd

[vapid gorge]

You also don't need to use all the uranium on the map. Nothing in the game has as goal that dictates anything like that

[agile bobcat]

no thats the goal i had for myself

[unique cypress]

Has been, yes. But 1.0 is pretty poorly balanced. Not just Ficsonium

[agile bobcat]

what else?

[vapid gorge]

part of the problem solving process, sort out possible methods and designs with what tools you've got

[agile bobcat]

this is my current plan

[unique cypress]

Matrices are really expensive in SAM too and Ionized fuel is just straight up bad for power, while rocket fuel is way too OP

[agile bobcat]

yeah i saw that about ionized fuel

rocket fuel seems nice

[dusky bronze]

its REALLY good

[unique cypress]

I'd say don't bother with plutonium fuel unit if you're not gonna burn the rods.

[vapid gorge]

you then decide how to use ionized fuel - just because it's not a great option for power generation doesn't make it bad.

basically the gold standard jetpack fuel, and fastest drone fuel

[dusky bronze]

its hands down the best jetpack fuel

[vapid gorge]

tied with plutonium rods

[agile bobcat]

Haven't used drones before

thats gonna be fun

[vapid gorge]

drones are basically slow teleporters

2 buildings either end, fuel it. Done

[dusky bronze]

or a train alternative

[unique cypress]

Not really. Anything I would use drones for, I wouldn't use trains and vice versa

[vapid gorge]

more that drones essentially need no infrastructure as long as you have fuel made.

plug and play

point and shoot

[agile bobcat]

still low key dont get the point of trucks trains or drones

[dusky bronze]

by train alternative i mean you cant have nearly as much throughput but they can go anywhere

[agile bobcat]

theyre very cool, but in theory could just belt everything everywhere

[dusky bronze]

yes but thats boring and insanely expensive on large scales

plus as of now having lots of belts nukes performance

[unique cypress]

And just inconvenient for large amounts

I'd rather run 2 rails than 20 belts

[agile bobcat]

i see

[dusky bronze]

why would i spend the entire day making a belt highway when i can just connect a couple stations to the global rail network and then be able to get basically any amount of resources i want anywhere on the map

[agile bobcat]

hmm

That does sound very handy, I should try and use more trains

[dusky bronze]

and after a certain point you basically need trains

nuclear and rocket fuel on large scales would be difficult without them

as well as the sheer amount of stuff you need for phase 5

[agile bobcat]

I tried to do the math, and a 1200 belt of something on a train would fill the luggage hold after only 6 minutes or something

[vapid gorge]

you can put many trains on the same train line
edit what goes on it very easily

belts? shit man, many multiple belts spanning across the map and you need to make an edit?

rip

[agile bobcat]

thats a very easy solution I didn't think about that

Idk why i assumed only one train could do one thing

[dusky bronze]

split the belt up and you're good to go

[vapid gorge]

trucks need very little infrastructure, but you need to plan around them.

trains take a lot of infrastructure but is supre modifiable and reusable

drones are point and click but you need a lot for high throughput

[agile bobcat]

trucks seem terrible 😂

[vapid gorge]

nah, just need to learn and design for them

same as the rest.

Cept for maybe drones

[agile bobcat]

hmm

[vapid gorge]

drones have a loooong landing and take off sequence though so if you use them for short distances most of the travel time is going up and down

[agile bobcat]

interesting

I reckon i need to spend a bunch of time on some infrastructure, mine sounds rather weak now

[dusky bronze]

yes

[vapid gorge]

imo the game starts once you've unlocked everything and you do your own projects from the ground up

so you can just redo your infrastructure for that when yo uget there

[dusky bronze]

but infrastructure with trains is a one time thing whereas with belts you need to build a new highway every time you need something

[agile bobcat]

yeah I think im going to complete my space elavator factory

to get to tier 9, and then get going on that stuff

since ive already ported in all the resources for it and i just need to fill out my big mega factory

[vapid gorge]

mega factories are an option. I wouldn't build one unless I had planned every single step before hand

and even then... eh.

[dusky bronze]

anything can and will happen

[vapid gorge]

anywho, sleep time for me as it's 130am

[wind spade]

or you could build where resources are 🙂

[agile bobcat]

its a factory for 10 of each space elavator part

[agile bobcat]

doesnt rly apply to uranium tho

[wind spade]

why not?

[agile bobcat]

cause if i want all of these in one spot itll be a pain in the arse

[wind spade]

well you can build separate factory near every one of those

or not use all uranium (as that's usually overkill)

[agile bobcat]

but i want to

[wind spade]

well then you're gonna have these "issues"

[agile bobcat]

not to sound like a prick but you clearly haven't read the convo we had previously, as it literally discussed all of this

[bleak cove]

does somebody has an idea how to make building load balancers a bit simpler

[unique cypress]

they aren't that hard to build

[bleak cove]

but hard to figure out sometimes

[wind spade]

well you can also not build them and instead use one of many other methods of item distribution

[unique cypress]

any specific one you're having issues with?

[bleak cove]

no not really but i recon it would be more efficient with them but i dont jhhave that much exp in satis so not sure

[unique cypress]

balancers have their benefits but efficiency isn't one of them. whatever type of efficiency you're talking about

[wind spade]

most people use manifolds instead

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[bleak cove]

that could be, it was just my understanding´, but if my perception was wrong, it isnt that important i guess

[bold plaza]

Hi fellas, I have completed phase 1, should I turn all of my plate for reinforced doors or would I need iron plates for other stuff ?

[unique cypress]

No clue what "reinforced doors" are supposed to be but whenever you start to make anything, you'll need it all the way to the end of the game

[bold plaza]

I meant Reinforced Iron plate mb

[ruby tulip]

i wouldnt say that for smart plating though. the first setup most likely will be jank and it is a waste of reinforced iron plates and rotors untill you nake a proper setup.

but reinforced iron plates will be needet the entire time till the end.

[bold plaza]

Also thanks for the info, rn I'm stockpiling Iron plates and idk if I should change them or keep them

[ruby tulip]

just stockpile everithing you make. and youll need them for coal power, if you havent already set that up.

[bold plaza]

Oh ok thanks, and that was my next question what do you guys do for energy, biofuel takes ages to make 😄

[ruby tulip]

first a coal setup, and later fuel.

[bold plaza]

Is there really enough coal for all that ? Cause I have a lot of biomass burners

[unique cypress]

lmao yeah

[bold plaza]

Ok then thanks, I've been farming biofuel for ages now 😄 for me it's the worst part of the game tbh

[ruby tulip]

you dont need biofuel anymore as soon as you unlock coal power and build a small setup with like 8 gens, youll be fine for your first productions.

[bold plaza]

ok Imma do that soon

Thanks y'all

[ruby tulip]

and coal power is automated, you dont have to do anything for it to run.

[bold plaza]

Man I just finished an elaborate system to distribute a ton of biofuel to the burners and now it's gonna be useless 😄

[ruby tulip]

no problem, we're here to help.

[bold plaza]

Thanks dawg appreciate it

[ruby tulip]

I just slapped down 8 biogens and hoped they'll survive until I have enough resources for coal.

[bold plaza]

I have like 32 rn 😄

[unique cypress]

then you should probably replace them with 32 coal gens

[bold plaza]

dang

[unique cypress]

I mean you'll have 2.5 times more power in the end

I'm just saying that if you already have 32 bio gens, those 32 coal gens won't be wasted

[bold plaza]

I see thanks for the info mate

[unique cypress]

you can start with 16 and go to 32 later

[upbeat summit]

any go around to the issue of trains stopping the output when docking?

this should be a perfect 780/min line, but it fluctuates a lot due to that docking

[vapid gorge]

connect 1 belt to a double container
connect 2 belts from the container to the platform

reverse the other side

[upbeat summit]

hmm yeah , ok i'm dumb to not realise that this is why most yt vids had that setup

[vapid gorge]

most of the time a platform will be lucky to be able to move 1 full belt. Depends on distance and stack size

[golden dove]

With the ISC buffers, you can usually sustain 3 belts full out of 2 platforms, or 5 from 3 (etc)

[vapid gorge]

You’d have very short routes sustaining 1.5 belts

Especially with mk6 belts

[golden dove]

There's obviously a saturation point for the number of trains that you have on the route in between, but if I'm pushing three belts continuous in, I should be able to get three belts continuous out.

My last megafactory was based on 2-wagon trains supporting a maximum of three Mk5 belts each and it ran continuosly.

I needed 94 trains on the map to sustain that, but that is also because I chose to do some very dumb things

If you're a circle enjoyer, you would (probably) have liked that one

[unique cypress]

No. The platform's inputs and outputs stop moving items for 27 seconds whenever a wagon gets unloaded.

That means you get no items for 27 seconds and 780 otherwise. Averaged out, that's always less than 780.

But, platforms have 2 inputs and outputs, so if you only want one 780 belt in/out of the platform, you just need to use both ports. You'll still get 0/min for 27 seconds, but 1560/min afterwards. And that can average out to 780.

So you just need to place an ISC right next to the platform, connect both belts between them, and then only one belt on the other side of the ISC.

But if you're expecting to get 780 out of both platform connections, then that's impossible and you'll need more platforms

[viscid marsh]

I usually just use a higher teir belt to compensate for the outage period.

[unique cypress]

theoretical max # of belts per platform as a function of belt speed and stack size

[golden dove]

Interesting - thinking on it, I only ever have raw ores on trains, so my experience is based on that

[golden dove]

I also use designs that consume or produce 720 items/minute anyway, so there's some additional headroom built in

[tawny swan]

I don't have it yet but hunting, diluted fuel or heavy turbo fuel end goal is rocket fuel.

I have heavy turbo fuel

Tool pure aluminum ingot over diluted fuel 🤷🏼‍♂️

[unique cypress]

Why would you want turbo heavy fuel lmao

[tawny swan]

We are using turbo fuel currently seemed better than no alt recipes

I guess my question is should I just wait for diluted or make heavy turbo fuel for rocket fuel in the meantime

[vapid gorge]

you can just stick to diluted all the way to the tend if you want. Or to nuclear. Turbo heavy is ... not great

at least for power production

[tawny swan]

So that's the issue I don't have diluted yet

[unique cypress]

I never build anything "in the meantime" if there exist recipes I want more than the ones I have and I can get them

[tawny swan]

Alright

[unique cypress]

If you're happy with whatever output you can get with turbo heavy, then by all means, build a power plant using it. But tearing it down when you get diluted fuel is pointless. If you're gonna do that, might as well get diluted and build using it without wasting time on something else

[tawny swan]

That makes sense. Also drones, can I move batteries with other things or does it get weirdor should I move batteries around with a seperate drone system?

[unique cypress]

Mixing different items in the same drone is generally not a great idea. Especially if one of them is the drone fuel

[tawny swan]

Well we build a big factory making turbo fuel just got the heavy receipt figured it's better but I agree I'll keep hunting for diluted

[thorny root]

Is this considered meta

(starter base for injection into a new save, accompanied by full grid geothermal tap)

I guess that is a bad angle huh...

Oh nvm this chat is just dead.

[analog tulip]

I'm looking for data that shows which recipes are unlocked at each milestone

[thorny root]

You might not find a resource with the data grouped like that. You might have to make your own.

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Hard_Drive/Alternate_recipe_analysis

... why would that link not be allowed

[unique cypress]

because it's from a wiki that hasn't been updated in years

[analog tulip]

There's https://github.com/greeny/SatisfactoryTools/blob/master/data/data1.0.json which I see in the schematics section. It looks like there are recipes that aren't mentioned in any list. Can I assume those recipes are always unlocked when their machines are unlocked?

[unique cypress]

the most reliable source is the game files probably. or at least the game docs. because the wiki has some wrong information and nobody who knows how to fix it didn't bother to do that in months

[analog tulip]

From https://github.com/greeny/SatisfactoryTools/blob/master/README.md

I must be stupid though, because I don't see a Docs.json in my game installation

[unique cypress]

there's one for each language. so you probably want the en-us.json

or was it en_us.json?

[analog tulip]

en-US.json yes there it is

[thorny root]

@analog tulip https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Hard_Drive

actually seems to have the info you need

[analog tulip]

thanks

[wind spade]

that readme is a bit outdated now 🙂

[analog tulip]

It's all good. I've already got my code that generates a lookup from milestone to recipes.

[unique cypress]

like I said earlier, some info on the wiki regarding unlocks is incorrect. some is outdated, some is incorrectly parsed

[fringe seal]

portal, in starter base?

ngl, I kinda like the design though

[mystic hollow]

is this big enough for a decent sized oil refinery?

[dusky bronze]

if it isnt you can always build more

[mystic hollow]

idk how i'll lay the refiners since they need 2 imputs

i think that is too big

i need to grab more concrete now

[upbeat summit]

slap on some 2-3 dim depots connected to concrete constructor and call it a day, never need to grab concrete again

[mystic hollow]

no i have like a few thousand made

i just couldn't fit most of it

in my inventory

[azure gust]

I know this has probably been gone over many times, but i'm trying to verify something [before I build it]. I have an input line full saturated at 1200/min, connected to a industrial storage which is connected [with 2 belts] to a single freight platform. Total max throughput is 1200/min, but the train platform can get theoretically 2400/min until it's full. Est time to fill the train is ~1.785 min [stack size 100]. Presume the train unloading location has a similar pad setup, so it can unload the platform into storage at 2400/min until empty. Train throughput should be saturated [i.e. 1200/min] as long as the round trip time is between roughly 0:55 and 3:33, right? Or am I mathing wrong and the train line output will never hit 1200/min?

[ruby tulip]

i cant verify the exact timings, but 1200 per platform is possible with the coorect round trip time/amount of trains.

[unique cypress]

By my math, the train will be able to carry 1200/min per platform with round trip times between 0:54 and 2:40

[azure gust]

hmm, I think my maths must be partially wrong at least, 0:55 RTD doesn't make any sense if the TTF is 1.785 min

or maybe I'm just not braining very well today

[ruby tulip]

have you calculatet with the 27s(?) that train platforms dont accept items while docking?

[azure gust]

yes, that's why I had the industrial storage and 2x belt transfer from that - as long as the storage isn't full, the initial input won't stall but I'll still have full 1200/min throughput to the train

I'd want to get it where the storage is empty when the train arrives, though

[fringe seal]

this is for 900 oil + 192 fuel gens

though, tbf, 70% of that space is for fuel gens

[mystic hollow]

im just scared i'll break the system from byproducts if i make it very big

[unique cypress]

Then handle the byproducts property and it won't