math-and-meta

[visual yarrow]

Wait, no, quickwire can also only use caterium.

Only copper.

[vapid gorge]

well. And iron

[visual yarrow]

*since you can use iron, or even only copper, is what I mean to say.

Quickwire's two options are both also ways to make wire, in terms of type(s) of metal.

[vapid gorge]

I was looking at the numbers and it looks like QW cable is more Rubber efficient than insulated Caterium wire

by a reasonable margin. But you'd probably only really care on a big project

[visual yarrow]

But it's really the production speed that drives me nuts.

The fact that it's lower than the default constructor recipe.

I can handle adhered iron plates because they are using an assembler no matter what.

Well, that, and they have beautiful production ratios.

[vapid gorge]

well you often pay for compactness by needing more resources

which, comparing Insulated Cable vs Caterium Cable, that's what's happening

like Bolted plate is less resource effcient but it goes BRRRRR

[visual yarrow]

Oddly enough, coated cable? Never use it, but don't have an issue with it.

[vapid gorge]

well it's less processing than insulated but much less oil efficient

[visual yarrow]

I find it at least more interesting than quickwire cable.

[vapid gorge]

like significantly less oil efficient

and needs ... a refinery 🙁

[visual yarrow]

Yeah, using raw HOR is gonna do that.

[vapid gorge]

a big plus for any recipe for me is avoiding refineries

recycled plubber is a nescesary evil

[visual yarrow]

Do you not enjoy hard drive hunti- oh

[vapid gorge]

fingers not keeping up with the brain

happens a fair bit

[visual yarrow]

I managed to isolate quickwire cable on a drive with charcoal. That was fun.

[vapid gorge]

gonna use QW cable on my next project just for you 😛

made using also copper and iron obvs

[visual yarrow]

You can if you want. I never had an issue with people using it. I just really don't want to use it.

[vapid gorge]

actually no I won't. I don't want 4x as many assemblers

I'll spend the extra oil

[visual yarrow]

Oh, crystal oscillators.... you and your silly number of required manufactories.

[vapid gorge]

1.8754 or something?

[visual yarrow]

Insulated is 1.875, but that's half of 3.75 and thus an eighth of 15 and so on.

Default is 1/m.

But it just needs a LOT of manufactories to produce them in bulk.

You don't need them in bulk... but it makes stuff like crystal computers and the synergy they have with the default RCU recipe less appealing.

Oh, right. Rigor motors exist.

[vapid gorge]

and is a fun recipe!

[visual yarrow]

Hmm. I don't think I can build this rail around this SAM node in a way i'll be happy with.

...Wait, I have a brilliant idea.

Perfect.

[vapid gorge]

sunk the miner into the ground?

[rose ingot]

If you need 25 screws for a machine make 48 trust me

[visual yarrow]

Nah, i'm just going to ignore that particular node.

[obsidian spade]

I’m making a mega factory for being able to manufacture all or practically all building materials and was wondering what items could be good to have?

[wind spade]

imo it's not good to have megafactory 🙂

[obsidian spade]

Balright

[wind spade]

make separate factories 😉

[obsidian spade]

I already made a mega factory with a rail system

[knotty hornet]

Do it

[wind spade]

well you can still make separate extra factories

[knotty hornet]

It'll be fun

The belt work is bound to be a satisfying nightmare

But you got this, just give yourself more space than you think you'll need.

[obsidian spade]

Yeah I made a logistics floor which is just a floor for just belts after belts and made conveyor elevators to the top of my mega where I have central storage so pretty much it’s all layed out

[visual yarrow]

Really, you just want to check for every item that is used in a building.

Things I see missing off the top of my head: heavy modular frames, computers, fused modular frames, cooling systems, aluminum casing, crystal oscillators, radio control units, AI limiters

[knotty hornet]

FMFs are a fun factory on their own

[visual yarrow]

Oh, supercomputers, portable miners, sam fluctuators, quickwire, high speed connectors... uhh

oh, stators.

[wind spade]

stators are not needed

[visual yarrow]

power storages

wait.

huh. okay, I guess those don't require stators now.

[wind spade]

yeah

[knotty hornet]

Stators are only needed in that, you need them to make motors

[wind spade]

(and I wouldn't build those anyway)

[visual yarrow]

they're also used for electromagnetic control rods, which have quite a few uses in alternate recipes.

[knotty hornet]

True

[visual yarrow]

and power storages are always useful to have.

[wind spade]

eh I'd disagree with that

and ECRs will have their own stators

that's not part of "production to storage"

[knotty hornet]

I haven't come across the need for power storages yet, but they are very handy for when i'm fiddling with my power grid, in case I muck it up lol

[visual yarrow]

yeah, that wasn't in reply to that topic

honestly, power storages give you a lot more flexibility in how you approach the very fluctuaty power demands of endgame machines.

some people just overbuild power so they can not care about it, which is fine, of course

[wind spade]

imo if you're so close to power limit that you need power storages to run fluctuating machines, you need more power, not power storages

[knotty hornet]

That's his point though, is it gives you options

[visual yarrow]

except power storages are specifically designed to be used with fluctuating power, and they are way easier to build

[wind spade]

the thing is that power storages don't make power

[visual yarrow]

and don't require resources, for that matter. well, the usage of map resources.

[wind spade]

so you still need to build the power

[knotty hornet]

We know that

[wind spade]

and if you're already building the power, just build a bit more, rather than relying on power storages (you're gonna build more power anyway)

[visual yarrow]

at some point, yes. but when I do that, it isn't going to be an incremental thing. it's going to be a massive project

now i'm only running like two quantum encoders full time right now, and... some converters and particle accelerators.

but if it were needed, I could easily use power storages to offset any nessecary power costs when I finally bother to do a major power expansion (which is to say, nuclear)

[obsidian spade]

In rl people use capacitors to smoothen power output
Sometimes having a battery will do the same in satisfactory

[visual yarrow]

so, yes, they are not needed. but they are not needed in the same way that coal, fuel, and nuclear power plants are not needed.

which since nobody took the prompt I provided: i have beaten the game without building any of the above. power storages are a tool to be used.

they may not suit everyone's playstyle, and you may be able to avoid using them if you approach power in a certain way, but the fact that it's possible to not use them doesn't mean they're not worth considering the usage of in the first place.

[knotty hornet]

I like how clear the sine wave is in there from the geysers

[visual yarrow]

yes i also appreciate that smooth curve

[velvet warren]

despite the power is already in the 40GW ish, that must be alot of geysers in sync to make that much of a dip lol

[visual yarrow]

well it's not that they're in sync

or at least. not intentionally. i just have all of them.

[velvet warren]

my geyser dip, I have 5-6 geothermal gens

[visual yarrow]

yeah, that would be why. about the same production, but 5-6 vs 31 will make a difference, heh

[velvet warren]

damn, did you collect all the geysers??

[visual yarrow]

always do

it's a good thing to do at the stage of the game when you start wanting to get a lot more hard drives

and I may also just kind of get distracted all the time and wander off harassing the wildlife/looting everything, so it helps to set an objective for that inevitable situation

on a different note.

this area of the map. i do not like building rails through it. i feel obligated to follow the canyon, but then the squiggly curvy rail that results isn't my favorite.

it also is one of those parts of the map that has an absurd number of lizard doggo spawns, and they are EXTREMELY DISTRACTING

like, you can... possibly, since it's night... see the exact point where my soul starts to die

[balmy frigate]

I'm not very familiar with the technical aspects of satis yet, what's the correlation between geysers and hard drives?

[brisk urchin]

hard drives you need 40% of the time some MW to unlock them at the crash site, and because geysiers are basicaly free power you can just hook them up and get the hard drive

[balmy frigate]

ooh I never actually thought of doing it like that, smart

[visual yarrow]

so while the geyser thing is true, I connect them to my grid as I go. the correlation is that i'm jaunting around the world building power towers and such.

it's also a time to get slugs, artifacts, and alien protein.

incidentally, most hard drives that require power actually are located near geysers

it.. may be time to head back. given that I am technically supposed to be building a railway.

although i kind of don't remember why i am building a railway because it is not leading anywhere I need to go

hrm

well I guess thankfully it doesn't take long to get back when I am capable of extended overland flight

[knotty hornet]

So many computers

[balmy frigate]

I've connected all nearby geysers to my lines as well but it just never occurred to me that I can use them for crash sites. now I will know 🫡

[knotty hornet]

And 3 stacks of rad filters??

Brother man, they don't go that fast 😭

Also, mad respect for the parachute 🫡

[visual yarrow]

it is surprisingly useful to have in the occasional situation where I am left with no jetpack fuel in the air, since I can quick-equip it.

[visual yarrow]

and no they don't. but i am lazy, haven't automated them, and knew I was going to be clearing uranium deposits where I was working

[knotty hornet]

You've officially (and unilaterally) been awarded "Safety Employee of the Week"

[visual yarrow]

and i'm home.

[sullen light]

This is day one of overhauling my factory
before you ask i will make factorys for caterium and all that but im starting with my main factory
and im currently showing mother nature whose boss and clearing the land
but heres a main diagram of the materials and my basic plan for the new factory
p.s
dark gray: factory floor
green: material entrence
yellow: energy production
black: coal
white: pipes
light gray: conveyers
red: smelting
purple: production
orange: storage

[visual yarrow]

i love this thing, by the way. i just dump all my war trophies i mean alien remains, slugs, in, and it just deals with them.

[atomic folio]

not a major question. so i dont think it needs a WHOLE feed dedicated for it.

how many batteries does a single drone need to use to go back and forth across the map? (using it for a calculation on how many batteries i should automate)

[visual yarrow]

it depends™

[atomic folio]

lets say. bottom right to top left. how many?

[knotty hornet]

Sick helmet

[visual yarrow]

okay so here's the thing. battery usage doesn't linearly scale with distance (also I don't know the precise answer to that sorry)

[atomic folio]

huh. really? interesting. I thought if they had a route. it'd just eat batteries based on that

[knotty hornet]

That looks like a solid layout, and the eastern end tou have drawn is also near some limestone and some more copper, i think.

[visual yarrow]

also, in case you were not aware, you can use oil based packaged fuels for drones, now.

[atomic folio]

im aware. but I wanna use that for me and my power

[sullen light]

yeah i forgot to mention the limestone lol

[visual yarrow]

fair enough. but to clarify something

a route will consume a set amount of fuel per trip, and will estimate it's per minute cost based on that. but a route that is half as long as another route, doesn't directly equate to half as much fuel

shorter routes, in particular, will consume more fuel relative to the distance travelled. think of it like the cost of taking off and landing.

[knotty hornet]

There is also a triple normal vein of iron near that little shadow triangle on your map

[atomic folio]

I just figured if i can. lets say cover the ost of 50 drones. running back and fourth on the longest trip possible. I can cover almost any amount of drones

[visual yarrow]

that is probably accurate, but you might want to consider building in a way that can be scaled up as needed

[knotty hornet]

Test it and report back to us. Make a stack of batteries, a drone port at the northwest nitrogen, a drone port in Blue Crater, and see what the port tells you.

[visual yarrow]

i personally use ionized fuel for mine because i have it and it makes them go fast

but i have no idea how many drones I might end up using, and ionized fuel is expensive and complex to make, so...

i forgot where I was going with this

well in conclusion: it is probably time for a break

[atomic folio]

what's that?

[visual yarrow]

ionized fuel? it's basically the end-tier fuel

[atomic folio]

I meant a break XD

[knotty hornet]

gooood employee

[visual yarrow]

it's when I go and play a different game that requires less subjective thinking and more punching things so hard they explode

particularly given that about 99% of today's playtime has been fighting the local fauna as if I were playing a stylish action game

[atomic folio]

I do wish that the splitters could organise harddrives. That way I can TRUELY come home. and just hit "deposit all"

[visual yarrow]

ever since the advent of the dimensional depot, I haven't had much need to store anything

[frosty owl]

Machines are the easiest way to avoid complex balancers to get all the numbers one wants 🤷‍♂️

[visual yarrow]

while i agree, why would you want to avoid complex balancers

[atomic folio]

its more just. when I want to clean out my inventory. Have food go into its own spot. equipment i might not wanna loose.
rather than just sinking everything

[visual yarrow]

oh that recycling thing doesn't sink anything other than the leaves, wood, and alien remains specifically processed to be sunk

[deft lichen]

depositing all would also deposit all equipment and ammo, probably not really desirable

[visual yarrow]

it has a return container for anything not whitelisted on a programmable splitter because I dont trust myself not to throw something important in there by accident

[atomic folio]

thats why I have a sorter. but I do wish harddrives could be sortable. that way I can sort everything. cause right now. harddrives is the only thing stopping me from making a "dump" chest

[visual yarrow]

and also I carry around like 12 stacks of computers because i still havent automated them

[atomic folio]

once I get automated power. I automate what I every pops up. once i have the wanted alt recipes atleast.

[visual yarrow]

i... take some time, sometimes. computers are next on the list.

but they're kind of hard to get started on because of... numerous reasons, some less justifiable than others

[atomic folio]

I am really sad tho- my m.2 died last week. and because satisfactory doesn't let you change the save file location. I lost my 400+ save. (which was my active save at the time) and I had a really really beautiful computer facility. that also did fabric. plastic, rubber and HSC

[visual yarrow]

sorry to hear that

honestly, I also am procrastinating on starting because I want to make something that looks nice. but I kind of need inspiration

[atomic folio]

me. I'm a functionality over form kinda gal. function comes first. then comes aethetics

[visual yarrow]

so given that my entire area ive set aside for this computer factory is named after a touhou thing, I am now going to go play touhou

[sullen light]

bro same

[visual yarrow]

i'm a "desperately trying to balance form and function" person

i need both.

[atomic folio]

for this kinda trip. (for some reason it went around to the left. and continues to do so)
it takes 17 batteries PER trip. at 3.6 per minute.
I'm thinking 360 batteries a minute. (ONLY FOR DRONE USE)
is more than enough-

[frosty owl]

Personally, I tend to somewhat pursue logistical minimization: if I can achieve the exact same result using fewer belts/machines, my solution isn't "optimal" and I feel an impulse to find a better one (eg: if a balancer takes more space than one machine, I'll build the one machine; same if the balancer is smaller than one machine but involves so many splitters/mergers that one machine feels like it would "cost less performance" for the game)

[visual yarrow]

oh I just meant, like. one time i built a 10/13ths splitter because I could.

i find that being able to do things like that helps justify the decision to do so despite all the reasons people may provide as to why I should not

im also kind of. needing coffee and not making sense, even to myself. so i am going to fix that

tl;dr: i was making a joke but i forgot the punchline, basically

[knotty hornet]

going from the far corner of Blue Crater (1560,2610) all the way to the northwest Nitrogen vein (-2620,-1920).
6,172 m flight, 4:47 flight time
17 batteries per trip, approx. 3.4 batteries/min

[visual yarrow]

though to be clear, the 10/13ths splitter was not a joke. i actually did indeed make one of those once, and I did enjoy it

[atomic folio]

well. if you wanna ficsit. you gotta spend a coupon

[frosty owl]

People saying "you shouldn't" and "it won't work" are a big reason why I got into single input sushi

[deft lichen]

is that a mod to render buildings in-game?

[knotty hornet]

Cartograph

[deft lichen]

hmm hmm maybe I will mod the game after all

[visual yarrow]

yeah that's a mood, isn't it

[deft lichen]

that reminds me I wanted to try sushi belting in this playthrough

[visual yarrow]

truth be told, I tend to not have ingame coffee, because my hand slots are always full with my five weapons + healing

[knotty hornet]

also do Infinite Zoop, Location&Rotation, and Grappling Hook

[frosty owl]

🥳
Sushifolding or something more... daring? ^^

[deft lichen]

no thanks, I don't want any "quality of life" mods that are not actually QoL but just make the game easier

[knotty hornet]

??

[deft lichen]

that is...

[frosty owl]

There is no such thing as "too many loaded rebar gun equipped"

[visual yarrow]

nah, I only have the one, actually.

i find that the versatility and adaptability of having all five weapons on hand is too good to pass up

[atomic folio]

I never take healing XD

am the kinda gamer that just stockpiles stuff "incase i need it later" and then. NEVER use it. cause ill "need it later"

[knotty hornet]

so to answer this question, if you wanna fuel 50 drones with batteries doing this long trip, round up and call it 200 batteries/min (the route i did may not actually be the longest flight possible)

[atomic folio]

"""""need it later""""""

[frosty owl]

Eh, Sushifolding is easy to manage (for someone as experienced as you) ^^
Just merge within belt limits, always have overflow sinked... Ez

[visual yarrow]

i actually don't use inhalers anymore. i stick to paleberries

[deft lichen]

it was fun building the first "proper" factory (steel) and immediately having to deal with injection manifolds without having smart splitters unlocked

[visual yarrow]

i gather so many of them while roaming around anyways, and they're quicker to heal small bits of damage. you really dont want to be waiting around with lowish health for an inhaler to feel "worth" it

that's how you end up getting blown across the map by a large spitter fireball or something

[deft lichen]

mk3 belts are too slow to do sushi belting, but I can see it being used for HMF and computers with mk4s

[visual yarrow]

but man, I would love being able to strap the rebar gun to the rifle and use it as an alt fire.

especially with shatter rebar

[atomic folio]

I also think I'm being waaaayyyyy to ambitious with my current project

Turbo motors
fused modular frames
radio control units
super computers
computers
batteries
assembly director systems
cooling systems
high speed connectors
rocket fuel

and I've almost removed all decimals from input and outputs. for every machine. a l m o s t

the numbers are almost nice too-

[visual yarrow]

anyways. touhou.

[atomic folio]

if i had a LITTLE bit more nitrogen. I could make almost 2500 rocket fuel.

[obsidian spade]

how do you get those kind of maps?

[atomic folio]

m o d

[knotty hornet]

Cartograph mod

[obsidian spade]

is like minecraft to mod?

[brisk shore]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @deft lichen

[deft lichen]

you download a mod manager and install mods through it

[atomic folio]

kind offf???????? you need the satisfactory mod manager. which is like curseforge but made by decent people. and its just. click andd go

[frosty owl]

I once built a 1-to-(3/4 and 1/4) and two 1-to-(1/2s) with just 2 splitters and one merger
Not complex number, but I really liked the execution ahah

[deft lichen]

curseforge but by decent people is modrinth

[atomic folio]

based :p

[frosty owl]

Unless some weird numbers are involved, even without smart splitters there should be some "self-balancing" for that sort of manifolding ^^

[deft lichen]

the solution was to split the injecting belt, and do 2 injections instead of 1

[frosty owl]

I'm still so damn proud of that
Pretty much 3 balancers into 1 (iirc)

[atomic folio]

question-
before i pass out from exhaustion

What should I do- with;
1800 quartz crystals
400 aluminum ingots
795 caterium
4660 iron ingots
1740 coal?

cause I have no idea XD

[frosty owl]

Make them easily accessible for when you'll need them? ^^

[atomic folio]

that would require me having a brain- but ye- guess i should do that instead XD

amma go pass out now <£ good night yall ❤️

[obsidian spade]

is it worth using power shards for general line production?

[knotty hornet]

not really, no

[nimble nacelle]

Diagram for this thing.

[obsidian spade]

but for like miners its good?

[knotty hornet]

yeah, cuz nodes are limited, you only have the ones you have. you can always build more machines, so speeding them up doesn't make sense unless you have a space constraint to work against

plus, because power use scales exponentially with clock speed, you save power by building two machines at 100% vs one machine at 200%

[obsidian spade]

i might have some kind of space constraint but idk

[knotty hornet]

Ultimately, it's up to you. I personally don't like sharding anything except miners and extractors.

[obsidian spade]

currently using mk2 miners with max powershards on pure nodes

3 pure iron 1 pure copper 2 pure concrete

[tame dagger]

That’s what we call efficiency

[hoary oar]

using power shards for production is entirely personal preference. do you not want to place 50 refineries? place only 20 and shard them.
do you want a really over the top huge looking build? dont use shards.

only time where you really should use them is on miners/extractors, and machines that have sloops in them.

[tiny leaf]

this is a separate system right?
water from electrode scrap fuels some refineries
rest of refineries fueled by water pumps

[unique cypress]

when you have shards automated, there's little reason not to overclock everything

[hoary oar]

asthetics is a reason

some people prefer having more machines

and power, most normal players arent running on 1TW +

[unique cypress]

the difference in power is only 34%

[hoary oar]

its still there tho. i'd imagine most casual players produce just enough power to get by. and if not overclocking means they dont have to build yet another power plant, its probably what they do.

[final otter]

I have a question regarding the programmable Splitter, if i set the middle output to 5 and the right output to 3, will it also have the 5 to 3 ratio?

[hoary oar]

programmable splitter doesnt do ratios

its just a smart splitter that can have more than 1 item assigned per output

[final otter]

ok thx

[crimson moat]

That's mainly because the default clock is most of the way up the power curve, not because UC/OC doesn't impact power significantly.

250% clock uses 223% of the power-per-item that 20% clock does, which is fairly easy to do on particle accelerators and encoders, the machines that consume the most power.

It's also especially impactful for things like ficsonium or ionised fuel, where the power consumption of the machines is a significant factor in the build (or e.g. for power generation, where net and gross power may be close together)

[oblique hollow]

btw @vapid gorge how'd the pipe tests go with the mod?

[crimson moat]

Applying this to my power plant build which makes 1.1 TW:

250% clock on everything
= 225 GW consumption

100% clock on everything
= 3283 buildings with 168 GW consumption

100% clock on everything but 20% on accelerators/encoders
= 3687 buildings at 134 GW consumption

That last case makes the entire powerplant 25.4% more efficient for a 12.3% increase in building count. It's also 68% more efficient than the "OC everything" case, and it has strong positive power returns from Ficsonium whereas an overclocked setup loses power on the ficsonium stages.

[visual ocean]

I need some help with my trains..
I'm doing train stations with set items to then ship to various spots on the map.
My output stations are all 1:4 ratios. I have a computer factory that needs some plastic and so i only need 1 train car. The thing is the output station is not completely empty (filling from plastic production). So the train is like like 100 plastic a trip.

The pther 3 output containers are full tho. I already kinda merged from those 3 to the 1st to be faster at loading but this is only one train.

My problem here is: if I cant match stations, how can I avoid this plastic running out issue

[unique cypress]

If I have 4 platforms at the pickup station, I would always have 4 at the dropoff stations, regardless of how much I need
I would also balance all platforms, loading and unloading, and set all trains to only depart when empty/full

[visual ocean]

Okay, in that case i might need more input and output rework

[unique cypress]

oh no anything but that please I beg you

[normal latch]

which type of nobelisks are those? btw ive resorted to using nobelisks to clear most enemies lol except spiders

[silk glacier]

Wonder if anyone can help me solve my "Aluminum" issue..... as I am unable to math where this is going wrong or if im missing something. Cant seem to get the plant to 100% and not sure where I might be missing something
A) from water in the blue outline i got 5x extractors pumping water up to the above water tower I made, making total of 600 water/min
B) I got 3x Refiners making the alt: Sloppy Alumina and each requiring 200 water, so that is for my 600 water/min, but they are never running at more than 97-98% productivity
C) Alumina solution is being piped over into 3 separate small fluid containers that are raised slightly
D) the 3 fluid containers are then split into 4 refiners for scrap production, where the water is being let over to a concrete plant (with a sink) to avoid backup of the water. But these are also only running a 97-98% productivity.

[brisk smelt]

delete the fluid buffers

[wind spade]

I mean advanced fluid dynamics could fix current fluid issues

[brisk urchin]

it could do anything at this point, improve the current dynamics or make it worse as KYO might already fear it

[mighty mural]

Did I cook with this steel production? 6 foundrys to 4 constructor overclocked for steel beams , 6 foundry to 2 constructor overclocked for steel pipes & 3 foundry with one constructor a bit overclocked for encased steel beams

[brisk smelt]

fmf?

[mighty mural]

hm?

[honest grove]

fused modular frames

[mighty mural]

no, just steel variants

[crimson moat]

I'd say from the current system that most of the problems come from a missed attempt to add realistic complexity - the dynamic pressure system - which mostly actually added unrealistic and unclear behaviors and failure modes.

Other than work there, a few fixes are needed for the vertical junction connection height miscalculation, for the pressure transmission bug and for buffers (IIRC they have a smaller overfill percentage than pipes, and this creates abberant behaviors where a buffer is actually worse for storing fluids than a long pipe is - i think that they should be strictly better)

IMO all of the tools are there for a great fluid system, more than needed actually, it's just a matter of polish and maybe even taking a bit out. Not making it more complex.

[vapid gorge]

oh I still haven't turned on the game xD it's been on the back burner for a while now. Few other games. I'll def let you know when I do it though

[agile junco]

Is that more efficient than just sinking plutonium rods?

[crimson moat]

More net power: yes
Better usage of resources: no, putting the SAM+aluminum+copper elsewhere would give more wasteless power

[unique cypress]

more power per uranium

[agile junco]

I mean, I guess you are uranium limited?

Yea gotcha

[unique cypress]

net power is just a function of scale

[crimson moat]

you can make uranium with SAM

and that costs less SAM than making ficsonium

[agile junco]

So why not just sink plutonium? I'm not sure I understand how it's more net power than just scaling the uranium power.

[crimson moat]

it's a vanity project, not a mathematically max power build

[agile junco]

Gotcha

[crimson moat]

if you can do math you dont build ficsonium, waste or wasteless

[agile junco]

Yea, I'm tempted to do that as well. Since sinking plutonium feels wrong.

[unique cypress]

eh, we've been doing that for years to get rid of waste

tbh it pisses me off that the new way is not better in any way

[agile junco]

If you have >1TW of power optimality probably isn't going to make or break you.

[agile junco]

That was my conclusion when I was originally doing the math as well.

Doesn't need to be a huge amount more, but it should feel worth the effort.

[unique cypress]

ig it is more uranium efficient, but uranium efficiency doesn't matter one bit if you can just make more of it

and making more uranium for more uranium rods costs much less SAM than the equivalent amount of Plutonium + Ficsonium power would require

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I can't bring myself to sink Plutonium rods. If I'm making the rods, they're getting burnt

[agile junco]

It's going to be a while before I make a project that uses all the uranium on the map.

[agile junco]

I mean my first set of test reactors didn't have ficaonium unlocked yet.

[dusky dust]

I'm personally on Team Ficsonium. I know it's got many haters, but IMO it fits its niche perfectly

[mossy ibex]

hey I saw something curious yesterday, wondering if anyone knows what's up.

About a month ago I laid out a pretty large foundation, it was 12x12pads connected in a cross shape, ie the floor had 5 squares each 12x12 foundations.

Yesterday I rebuilt them with a different material and it was just easier to disassemble them and zoop out new ones. What I noticed is that large swathes of the existing pads could be deleted using blueprint mode, as if the pads had been built via blueprint.

The chunks followed some kind of logic, like sometimes it was the whole 12x12, sometimes it was like 12x9 and the remaining 3x12 could be deleted all together too. Like the pattern was plausibly following the zooping I originally did. Of course none of these were actually blueprinted at all.

I experimented and in general when I zoop out large pad it doesn't act like a single BP for disassembly purposes. So I don't know why it did that

[knotty hornet]

So you are saying the blueprint dismantle mode grouped together foundations that were built together using zoop mode, but then it didn't do it again when you tried more recently?

[mossy ibex]

correct

[knotty hornet]

Hmmm

[knotty hornet]

do you play with any mods like Infinite Zoop?

because that is a mod savegame setting for IZ

i assume you do, based on your description of the zooping patterns you gave earlier

[mossy ibex]

yeah interesting, I do use it, never seen that option, but that's likely it

yeah I see the option. Must have been on when I did those zoops. Mystery solved

[knotty hornet]

i was gonna say, reading that gave me a brain tickle, cuz i had seen that recently and decided not to use it

[mossy ibex]

it was pretty useful just then, accidentally, hah

[weak zodiac]

does anyone have a link to the current over/underclock power curve?

[unique cypress]

it's on the wiki

[weak zodiac]

it image I saw said it was from update 7 which gave me the impression it had been changed since then, if not, I'll go with that

[dusky dust]

Right, it's been unchanged for quite awhile; I don't even think it was changed in Update 7. Was probably just when that was written

[unique cypress]

whatever's on that page should be correct
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Advanced_clock_speed

[dusky dust]

The only thing that's changed clockingwise since Update 3 was that they made power-producting buildings scale linearly (which I think was before U7? Or maybe that was U7 and I'm just misremembering)

[weak zodiac]

sorry looking at the page again the images say "outdated as of update 7"

so I wasn't sure what to believe at that point

[dusky dust]

Oh, yeah, some UI stuff might have changed since then. The actual clocking has been stable for ages though. :)

[unique cypress]

are you on the fandom wiki or something?

[weak zodiac]

thats where I went first then I went to the clock speed entry on wiki.gg but that didn't have the curves listed from what I could tell. Thanks for the one you linked

[unique cypress]

yeah, idk why there are 2 different pages on clock speed tbh

[visual ocean]

Is nuclear pasta needed for anything other than space elevator/unlocks?

[unique cypress]

yes. singularity cells

[visual ocean]

Ok that makes more sense

[oblique hollow]

looks like you are on the fandom wiki there

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch nuclear+pasta

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=nuclear+pasta

[visual ocean]

Thats for portals right?

[unique cypress]

not just that

[agile junco]

!wikisearch singularity+cell

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=singularity+cell

[agile junco]

These are the portal fuel.

Oh that's what he said >.< I missread the thread sorry.

[dusky bronze]

would a system like this (belts are merged so that the 3 farthest belts that are the ones feeding the plastic machines are always full) be causing problems with the overall system?

other than that i cant think of any reasons why this recycling loop isnt at full efficiency

[unique cypress]

go and check why the machines aren't running at 100% instead of guessing?

but also, that is not the best way of building a recycling loop

[dusky bronze]

some are full of rubber/plastic

yeah im aware, first time building one

do you think it would be fixed by either getting rid of the mergers or making them priority mergers

[unique cypress]

trace the belts and find what causes them to back up

but yeah, it looks like it could be this

[dusky bronze]

thats fixed the backup, just need to give it a min to run for the belts to fill up

i need to stop building these as an attempt to fix problems, they seem to only cause more

[unique cypress]

making the mergers priority mergers would probably help

[dusky bronze]

yeah

[unique cypress]

(with the higher priority to the center input)

[crimson moat]

what niche would that be

[dusky bronze]

i make them so that if theres a belt that isnt full it gets filled up by a belt that isnt as important

except without a priority merger that backs up the machines that are for the important belts

[dusky dust]

The niche occupied by these two requirements: 1) Burn Plutonium, 2) Still have "clean" nuclear

If you don't care about either of those, then yeah, Ficsonium's not for you. But in that niche, it's lovely. :)

[crimson moat]

that is a very tiny niche

[dusky dust]

Sure, maybe. Though I know I'm not the only one who isn't going to not burn Plutonium, and I know I'm not the only one who ideally likes "clean" nuclear

But regardless: that's its niche. :)

[crimson moat]

Mainly i think it's overshadowed by the non-waste option of just making more uranium and sinking plut. That also has no waste, it makes more power with fewer resources, and it's easier to do. It's mathematically just better and it probably shouldn't be.

It would make more sense if you couldn't sink plutonium.

but i'l leave it at that 😄

[dusky dust]

You definitely won't see me arguing for widespread Ficsonium production; obviously it's not for everyone (or even most people!)

[dusky dust]

I just can't stand to leave free power on the ground like that, is all.

If I'm making Plutonium rods, I'm burning 'em. Sinking all that power feels like a gigantic waste. (And, ironically, I'd rather just have the Plutonium Waste to deal with than not burn the rods)

(And then maybe later get my 'clean' nuclear squared away w/ Ficsonium)

[unique cypress]

I still do not understand that argument. Like what is it a waste of? Resources? Time? Effort? Power? Ficsonium is a much bigger waste of all of these

[dusky dust]

Power! I've spent the power+resources to make the plutonium. I'm gonna burn it

And then I'm gonna either store the waste, or eventually convert it to Ficsonium (which is another net-power-postitive step)

I don't care about effort and time; the entire game is a waste of effort + time if we're coming at it from that angle

If I wanted to be doing something productive with my time I wouldn't be playing a computer game. :)

And I don't particularly care that Ficsonium is SAM-heavy because at least so far I have not yet approached the map's SAM limits even with Ficsonium production

If I do end up in a position where I have to prioritize what I spend SAM on, then yeah, Ficsonium will probably draw the short straw and I'll just store the waste instead

[crimson moat]

Doesn't it bother you more that you're wasting the SAM by not making it into easy power uranium

[unique cypress]

except making Ficsonium takes more than double the power. 630 GW of gross power from just Uranium and sinking plutonium costs 55 GW (and that includes making the Pu to sink). 630 GW of U + Pu + Fs costs 120 GW to make

[dusky dust]

As I said, no! I don't care about "wasting" SAM because there's more on the map than I need

I'm not wasting any resource in the game

[dusky dust]

Except then if I make more Uranium, I will also be making more Plutonium, and then I will want to burn those

[crimson moat]

I see anything that isn't tapped as worse than being sunk

This save has 720 tickets from sinking ore btw

[crimson moat]

round and round and round it goes

[dusky dust]

If I'm making rods, I'm using them for power. It's just how I am. :shrug:

Yeah, I just don't see what's so hard to understand about my viewpoint

Like, I'm 100% with you that it's not for everyone

[unique cypress]

even if that means you get less usable power?

[dusky dust]

I've never said that everyone should always make Ficsonium

[dusky dust]

I don't get less usable power, because I'm not doing Max Nuclear or whatever

Sure, if I were literally min-maxing the entire map, then I would not want to be making Ficsonium

[crimson moat]

It is a little understandable, not arguing with ya, just think it's very arbitrary (and arbitrary in a way that i wouldn't be)

[dusky dust]

But I'm not. I'm making some Uranium power, then making some Plutonium power, and then making Ficsoninum

[crimson moat]

so it's an interesting difference

[dusky dust]

And along the way I get to indulge in more of the game's factory lines, so win-win

[unique cypress]

you literally have to make more gross power to get the same net power from ficsonium than sinking plutonium

[dusky dust]

And every step of that is net-power-positive. Could I be making more power if I made more Uranium instead? Sure! I could also be making more Rocket Fuel

Hell, I could be making more coal power. But what I've got, what I've already made, is Plutonium Rods. I'm not just sinking them. Total waste, IMO

[dusky dust]

If I sink Plutonium, I'm getting 0GW of power from both Plutonium and Ficsonium

[unique cypress]

and if you were storing the Pu waste, sinking the Pu rods would, in fact be a waste. But making Ficsonium out of that is a much bigger waste

[dusky dust]

It's not a bigger waste because I get more power out of it

[unique cypress]

but you're getting 630 GW from Uranium. power is power. doesn't matter where it comes from

[dusky dust]

I burn the Plutonium, get a whole bunch of power out of it, and then I get a bit more power by making a "clean" nuclear solution

[visual yarrow]

OOOOOO YOU THOUGHT I WOULDN'T SEE THIS

BUT I KNOW NOW

[unique cypress]

just build more uranium and it's also "more power" 🤷‍♂️

[visual yarrow]

am I mixing up who i've had silly arguments with, again

[dusky dust]

Except that "build more Uranium" means, y'know, building more Uranium. Whereas the plutonium rods are right there. I made them. I expended the effort, time, and resources to make Plutonium Rods. IMO, sinking them is a total waste. I would much rather have their power

(And then either deal with the Pu Waste, or make Ficsonium out of it)

It doesn't matter that I could instead make more Uranium power instead, because if I did that, I'd have even more Plutonium, and then we're back where we started. :)

[unique cypress]

it was not me who said prio mergers are useless, no. but I think i've seen you have that arguement with someone else? not sure if that was you tho

[visual yarrow]

i'm tired right now, so it's entirely probable that I am getting things mixed up

honestly, half the reason those even were "arguments" in the first place is because when there are four or five people talking everything gets hard to follow

the other half is because it's hard to let things go sometimes.

also, I need to now remember what the original reason I tabbed over here was, because I have completely forgotten

okay I remembered. it wasn't even relevant to this channel this is just the one I had open last.

i dont know how to end this train of thought so just envision me pretending to walk down a flight of stairs behind a bar counter or something

[unique cypress]

Actually, thanks to you reminding me about that question I responded to, I have now come up with a new stupid idea I had for plubber recycling. Might even do it next time; it'll fit my general buildstyle better than what I've been doing so far

[dusky bronze]

is sloshing when a couple machines at the end of the line (pipes are set up like a manifold but things are going out insread of in) back up on fluid despite the pipe they're connected to having enough room for them to dump fluid in to?

[unique cypress]

Sloshing is when fluid moves back and forth along a pipe in a sinusoidal manner

[dusky bronze]

yeah but is this a symptom of that or something else

[unique cypress]

Could be, though not necessarily

[dusky bronze]

this is very weird

do you have any ideas about what else might be causing it?

welp whatever i did fixed it

i hope

it did not

[agile junco]

@fierce ruin

[little dock]

Is there anything extra i have to account for when using recipes with weird float number outputs?

[frosty owl]

Not unless you tend to freak out over extremely tiny miss-matches between production and consumption... ^^

[little dock]

Ykw i can live with that thanks man

[dusky bronze]

they're just the same as regular recipes except a little scary

[little dock]

3 is my least favorite number now

[crimson moat]

All inputs and outputs are integer, it just might take a weird number of seconds for one cycle to happen.

[agile junco]

What about 667?

[unique cypress]

As long as you don't put in a weird clock speed, all numbers in this game are pretty easy to work with

[brisk smelt]

just round up each previous production step by a percent or two no problemo

[dusky bronze]

@quaint condor this is what i was doing

i have since moved the outputs/inputs for the manifolds into the middle instead of the ends and its working much better

[frosty owl]

Pipes like simmetry. The more simmetry you can fit, the less the issues overall
(Ie: feeding a manifold from the middle is better than feeding it from one side)

[dusky bronze]

it seems to be even weirder now

[quaint condor]

Personally I would've done something like this... (Assuming the yellow is going the gens, i drew two "rows" of gens as an example

[dusky bronze]

they're feeding in to plastic refineries but ig its basically the same thing

ok instead of having a handful of pipes below 600 now everything is below 600

[quaint condor]

At least for the HOR, this is how I would "route" it:

[dusky bronze]

i can try that but this is so weird now

[frosty owl]

Note: feeding a manifold from both ends is more simmetrical than feeding it from one end. Comparisons with feeding from the middle are complex to make

[dusky bronze]

all the HOR refineries are at 100% efficiency but the pipes are in the 550-590 range

[quaint condor]

If it's constantly consuming, it most-likely be.. but should be just, in the case of a machine (ie refinery)is supplying. Mostly due to machne rates.

So long as the blenders are not lacking, you're gtg

[frosty owl]

Worst case scenario, you can go "full simmetry" and actually load-balance the pipes

[quaint condor]

Feeding from the middle still gives that "dead-head" scemario

Just "less noticable" as it's a shorter run.

[dusky bronze]

some of the blenders arent running at full efficiency but thats because they arent getting enough HOR

[quaint condor]

It can take up to 5 minutes or more for that "efficiency" thing to "settle-down" from what I have heard and base off my experience.

[frosty owl]

Which is not particularly problematic per-se, imo 🤷‍♂️
Looping pipes is just one of the ways to address flow issues (one I personally dislike due loss of flow readability)

[dusky bronze]

it seems to be increasing but very slowly

[frosty owl]

The power draw doesn't lie!
That is the most accurate way to track the efficiency of (not too many) machines within the last minute or so

Also avoids having to check multiple UIs or machines' lights, having all relevant info in one screen

[crimson moat]

One pipe feeding at the middle is functionally equivelant to 2 pipes feeding at each end

[quaint condor]

Going for nice straight lines like this: 😏

[crimson moat]

and either of those options are usually sufficient, but maybe not in extreme cases

[quaint condor]

I argue that one would always have better "success" via a loop over "dead-head" manifolds with pipes. The only "dead-head" should be the machine. Not the line feeding the machine(s)

[agile junco]

Is this good enough for you?

[dusky bronze]

while we're flexing power graphs

[frosty owl]

I have a feeling that looping increases the chance of backflow (though it all balances out ofc), which is what ends up making racking fluid that much harder when pipes are looped

[quaint condor]

Nope, Consumtion too wobbly 🤣

[agile junco]

lol, boost is more than consumption!

[agile junco]

I've been slowly working on that.

[dusky bronze]

will change in the next month or so

[quaint condor]

The only reason there is "back flow" is because the main feed isn't constant. If you keep pipes full, there is no where for it to go.

[agile junco]

The game should really add a comma, or convert to GW.

[quaint condor]

Lol, no flex lol. Was just sharing

[crimson moat]

It doesn't really, but it doesn't help either, it just essentially splits a 600/600 into two 300/600's before they hit the manifold - and that's the part that actually matters.

Middle connector does the same thing, splitting a 600/600 into a pair of 300/300's one pipe before they hit the manifolded stuff.

So does just having a junction earlier and taking 2 pipes out of it.

[quaint condor]

It doesn't matter if it "splits".. because at the end of the day, fluids flow in both drections, so, you still have the same amount in the loop......

The only "splitting" that would happen is at the machines.

Again, if the main feed trunk/loop stays full...

[frosty owl]

Flexes sushi rolls, waving them around like nunchakus
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/893141971487555676/Immagine.png?ex=68c2dc47&is=68c18ac7&hm=25a983049043bf69867a75097cc42559cd0bc88bacfe40cb2c844b6e1856beb5&

[dusky bronze]

actually it might not, i'm gonna be getting at least a 90% boost once i get some more phase 5 stuff going

[quaint condor]

I.e. consumption is not greater than supply

[dusky bronze]

at least after this save i think i'll know what not to do for future ones

you learn a lot in 500 hours

[quaint condor]

Yeah, we won't talk about how many I have put in in the course of this year 🤣

[dusky bronze]

how many

[quaint condor]

"some" of that, admittedlly, is from leaving the game on a few nights... mostly due to falling asleep in the middle 🤣

[dusky bronze]

that is like

[quaint condor]

But I purchased the game August 18th of last year lol

[dusky bronze]

ive got some time on other games but 4k hours is a LOT

ESPECIALLY IN A YEAR

[quaint condor]

Yeah/no, the addiction is real 🤣 . I fully admit.

Again, so long as all of the "main segments" of pipe stay full, it doesn't matter where the fluid goes, so long as it's only going to the machines imo.

[frosty owl]

Sorry, I replied to the wrong message

[frosty owl]

What worries me is the fact that the "ends" of the manifolds are linked (ie: manifold has no end/is looped). Even when all pipes are full, nothing prevents fluid from splitting 100-500 or 600-0; if the manifold has 2 branches, once one is full (and the main input is full too), fluid is forced to go into the other ranch through just one direction (no significant backflow)...

[quaint condor]

I don't know how I can really show though, given the way one has to bounce around to show things with fluid "status'"

[dusky bronze]

i think there might have been a possible fluid update teaser in some of the new birthday stuff

i'd be down if they made them work how you'd think they would

[quaint condor]

🤷‍♂️ I read/heard that the "fluid mechanics" in UE were supossed to be similar to real world physics... So I've just always applied those. (I build and install fluid delivery systems, paint, glue, etc. for robots for a living)

[dusky bronze]

well i think ive done just about everything i can for this plastic/rubber build

all thats left now is to see if the system fills itself up

[frosty owl]

There's some bugs that can lead to unwanted issues and could be fixed. Placing pipes in an orderly fashion (hints at simmetry) can help avoid quite a few problematic instances

[dusky bronze]

although some backup generators would probably be a good idea

[frosty owl]

Power storages help too~

[dusky bronze]

just to burn extra fuel

backing up on it because there isnt enough rubber/plastic to get the system going yet

[quaint condor]

This is what I ended up doing:

Only doing 1200/1200/min though.

[crimson moat]

The split is literally what makes it work, because a 300/600 pipe which gets some backflow can still have 300 net flow in the direction that it needs to go. A 600/600 pipe cannot, any fluid that flows out of the first side pipe blocks that much input fluid on the main input.

[quaint condor]

This method of thinking, imo, is trying to equate pipe function to belt function.

[crimson moat]

It's not a method of thinking, it's a description of the literal decompiled game code and of the best model the community has put together for fluid behavior

you can prove this with 3 pipes, a junction, a consumer and an input.

[quaint condor]

Feeding into a "dead-head" system. But that same supply on a simple loop, and gasp even more juctions feeding the "test" points, and I would be willing to be to see it works every time all the time.

[crimson moat]

It works if your inputs are 300/600 pipes, because they're 300/600 pipes with unused flow headroom.

It doesn't work if they're 600/600.

I've ran this exact test before - both to prove that it didn't work, and to further evaluate the hypothesis that unused flow rate headroom was the reason that some of the manifold fixes work (and it did agree with that 100%)

[dusky bronze]

this is what ive got going on, didnt show any pipe connections because i've already said everything thats going on

4500 rubber and 3600 plastic (theoretically)

[quaint condor]

Are you using the recycled recipes? Wouldn't they be the same?

[dusky bronze]

yes, im making 900 extra rubber from polymer resin

[quaint condor]

Ahhhh ok ... Lol, yeah, I am just sinking mine 😏

But, I also mad/saved that as "mega print"... so I could plop it down somewhere else later 🤣

And, I always oc everything. Less buildings, the better imo.

[dusky bronze]

i would have oc'd everything but didnt have shards automated when i was building this

[quaint condor]

@crimson moat You talking about like this?

[dusky bronze]

a flow rate graph would be really nice so that i know im not missing anything

[quaint condor]

Heh, erm, I am only just now building a shard factory 🤣

[dusky bronze]

but backup generators seem to have fixed the problems

[quaint condor]

The buffers show the fill rate, net and loss.

[dusky bronze]

i've got a reall small one

basically just the 1200 sam + some resources from the blue crater lake

makes power shards, fluctuators, fused frames, cooling systems

and then i've got my mk6 materials elsewhere but im gonna be renovating that factory later

[quaint condor]

Going for 140/min, and 51 dark matter crystals/min by product. Though, due to not being able to sink shards, the machine won't run all the time... Probably a waste of resources, but it's perfect for the spot I picked I guess.

[crimson moat]

cant read any of the text on that, but no. The way that you "looped" is just a way of splitting that 1 pipe of input into 2 pipes of half the size.

Connecting to a buffer which can consume up to 600/min from the connection also behaves radically differently from something which consumes, say, 10/min. The imbalance in desired flow rate between two different junction connections is what causes the flow to behave as it does (say if you want to send 590 down the manifold feed, but only 10 to a generator).

The side which drains faster will dip lower in pressure than its companion, and that causes flow direction on the slow consumer to flip 180 and come back.

[dusky bronze]

i should probably be working on a bigger stockpile ngl

i get a feeling that one storage container is not going to be enough for a phase 5 space elevator part factory with over 2k buildings

[quaint condor]

I'm not going to debate it any more tbh. I personally feel/have experienced differently than all these "tests" I have seen. Every single one expects to be able to run 10 gens @ 60/min on a single mk2 manifold. It's just not how, I feel, it's supposed to work. And, again with the "pressure", it seems very much so to stand up to "real-world" examples.

[crimson moat]

There are multiple pressure models in the game simulation, one of them using bernoulli's equation. Flow direction is determined by relative pressure. All of the math used is public, and we can control the variables used by said math with a simple mod.

That's where i'm coming from, i am not using "pressure" as a word to describe my feelings, but as a literal description of what the game code is doing.

I may have some misunderstandings, but i've poked around and asked enough stupid questions of people to at least mostly figure out the basics

[dusky bronze]

i think i've got this like 90% fixed now

the pipes are at 600/min most of the time but some HOR machines are still backing up

[simple jasper]

What is going on here

[quaint condor]

Which part? The one I was touring through is a reclycled plastic/rubber factory. Doing 1200/1200/min

I started the clip a little early while still in the air though, coming from somewhere else 🤣

[simple jasper]

I think my brain just shut down ngl I’ve played too much this week

[quaint condor]

No such thing! 😏

[simple jasper]

Fair

[dusky bronze]

i might actually just rebuild all of this

[agile junco]

Anyone have an equation or algorithm for producing the minimal belt limiter? I have a general strategy, but I feel like it's not optimal.

[knotty hornet]

Please explain what you mean

[agile junco]

Well I haven't given it enough thought yet to have a working solution. But the problem is:

Given a set of inputs speeds, { I1, I2, ..., In } what is the fewest splits and merges to get given output speeds { O1, O2, ... Om }

n and m are both > 0.

It's like a generalization of a balancer problem.

A balancer sets all I and/or O equal to each other, depending if it's balanced on both inputs and outputs.

[knotty hornet]

Hmmm

I call that kind of thing a "leveler," but i never considered you could use them to un-level belts. I just made a blueprint for a 3:3 leveler earlier today

[agile junco]

My current method is to just loop over the fixed belts speeds and divide them by 2 and 3 and see if I can add those parts up to what I want... But I don't feel like it's the best way.

[vagrant pilot]

Can someone help me

I don’t understand where splitters go and where to put them in order to make modular frames

[agile junco]

Yea, like I just built a system which always outputs 300/min.

Different from something which "levels" or "balances", but these are both solutions to my general problem.

[agile junco]

splitters just split the input belt.

[knotty hornet]

If you need an item to go more than one place, use a splitter.

[agile junco]

for example, if you have 300/min of something, and split it into three belts, each belt will get 100/min.

[vagrant pilot]

Then you worry about under and overclocking

[knotty hornet]

If you're still figuring out splitters, don't worry about clock speed yet.

[agile junco]

The base recipe for modular frames needs Reinforced Iron Plates and Iron Rods. So you just need to supply the two inputs of the assembler with each of those parts. Technically no splitters required.

Splitters become useful if you want to have more than one assembler producing modular frames, then you split each of the two inputs across each assembler in some way.

Generally there are two main strategies. Manifolds and Balancers.

This is a manifold, you can chain the inputs along a single line.

I guess three is a better example. Here's the extension of the manifold

And this is a "simple" 1:4 balancer for two separate inputs.

Balancers take up more space, but feed each machine at the same rate, so they all start up at the same time. Generally it's much easier to just make manifolds.

[agile junco]

Was that at all helpful?

[vagrant pilot]

Yes

[agile junco]

Great!

[agile junco]

This is what a basic 300/min limiter looks like.

Mk5 and Mk2 belts.

But I want a general algorithm for creating any set of speeds.

[vapid gorge]

you don't need to worry about load balancing at all. It provides no real benefits and takes a lot longer. If you're having difficulty with thebasics I really suggest sticking to normal manifolds

[crimson moat]

you have 14 splitters here when you actually need 6.

Y-splitting to 4 machines doesn't take any more room or buildings than a manifold, it's just strictly better

[agile junco]

True... I didn't delete the last layer from the manifold.

[agile junco]

Not at all strictly better if you plan to scale.

it's much faster to lay down a manifold.

[crimson moat]

it has linear scaling while splitting evenly has worse than linear

but that doesn't translate into a building count reduction until you're distributing to 5 or 7+ buildings

mainly advantageous with a lot, like 30 buildings

[agile junco]

It's just more uniform, and easier to build.

[vapid gorge]

couldn't you just have 1 splitter with 2xmk2s and 1x mk1 belt sticking out from it?

or even easier, clock the machines to output 300?

[agile junco]

I'm looking for a input speed independent solution.

[vapid gorge]

ok first statement still stands

[agile junco]

Sure. I never said my little experiment was the best way. It was just the result of playing around and thinking through the problem a bit and making sure I understood how feeding back into a merger worked like this.

Since splitting into belts of lower speed gives you that speed. Doing this loopback thing gives you more speed options to build with.

For example, a 160 limiter can be made like this with Mk4 belts:

Easier than doing 120+40. Which for the 40, you'd need 2/3 of a Mk1 anyway.

I feel like there some obvious math trick to thinking about this problem I'm missing.

[normal latch]

so i went exploring yesterday to get harddrives for the big recipes

i got what i needed for my rocket fuel setup, but its so fun to keep exploring and plopping down radar towers to see the map and the resources

next step will be a thick power plant with rocket fuel tho

[agile junco]

I made one with 900 oil -> 900 rocket fuel recently.

[normal latch]

my plant will take 1 crude and make 4 rocket

these are the recipes i'll use to get that ratio of crude oil to rocket fuel:

30 Crude = 40 Heavy + 20 Polymer
50 Heavy + 100 Water = 100 Fuel
100 Fuel + 75 Nitrogen + 100 Sulfur + 50 Coal = 150 Rocket + 25 Compacted

the nice thing as well is that rocket fuel will be a gas so i can just have a floor level to water to make all the focket fuel, and then stack the generators on higher floors

[agile junco]

yea, I didn't have diluted fuel when I made mine. I need to go back and beef it up at some point.

[normal latch]

u got heavy oil residue thing?

[agile junco]

yep

[normal latch]

nice ya

im still looking around the map for a good spot to put the power plant

[normal latch]

trying to find a combo of sulfur, coal, nitrogen (seems to be pretty rare overall), and water

they should really add that map mod into the base game imo

[agile junco]

Just fix the antialiasing and I agree.

[normal latch]

do you train in any resources for the power plant?

im kinda worried about using a train to ship in stuff

oh and as a side note, im thinking to build a little armory nearby which can hopefully make ionized packaged fuel for my jetpack, turbo rifle ammo, and other goodies like filters

[agile junco]

Just nitro and oil.

[normal latch]

lol i didnt even think to ship in the oil/gas products

i guess there are fluid cars

[agile junco]

There is a lot of oil just northeast of here I use.

[normal latch]

i started in the newbie starter zone so im thinking to build in the west part of the map

where the oil nodes are, i guess its west and slightly south

but i will have to belt in sulfur which is kinda far

[agile junco]

You can see my sulfur belt on the map... not too bad.

[normal latch]

hmm, i think that will be the plan then

there is a pure sulfur, a pure coal, nitrogren that is all pure, and a pure oil

i'll have to make a new aluminum factory, but thats ok

i wanna plan for eventual 1200 conveyors

[agile junco]

The other potentially better option is further north

[normal latch]

i dont wanna see heh

im trying to only build in spots ive scouted myself

[agile junco]

The oil just sucks.

Oh, ok. My bad.

[normal latch]

oil doesnt seem to be a limiting factor

in my calculations

[normal latch]

all good

Input:
1200 Sulfur
1200 Fuel = 1200 Water + 450 Crude
900 Nitrogen
600 Coal

Output:
1800 Rocket
300 Compacted

i will have to scale it down at first though since i only have 780 conveyor speed currently

Input:
780 Sulfur
780 Fuel = 780 Water + 292.5 Crude
585 Nitrogen
390 Coal

Output:
1170 Rocket
195 Compacted

its gonna be clean (-:

does an idle machine have an overclock energy penalty?

or is the idle energy consumption baseline regardless of clocking?

[woeful zenith]

You could, true. But also don't have to if you use two belts

(Assuming it's more than one node for the resource)

[knotty hornet]

Plans for the compacted?

[velvet warren]

is there a bug with this mode of the train? my cargo is all unloaded and freight is empty yet it's staying in the station, it's displaying canceling docking for a while now

[sand epoch]

Multi?

[brisk urchin]

you have "and wait X seconds" enabled

set it to OR

could fix it

if it doesnt work ig rebuild the train

[velvet warren]

if I set it to Or then it just doesn't wait for unloading at all

which I want it to do, wait there until all cargo have been unloaded to not clog up the train system with unnecessary movement

[brisk urchin]

then just rebuild the train ig

[velvet warren]

oh which way do you put the locomotive because I have a pretty long train (6 freights), do I butt them together?

[brisk urchin]

2 locomotives on one train?

yeah ig the best is one infront and one in the back

[velvet warren]

but do they turn in the same direction or with their back facing one another?

[brisk urchin]

you can scroll

like with any foundation

or building

[velvet warren]

yeah but which way is optimal I mean?

[deft lichen]

Doesn't matter

[velvet warren]

ty

[deft lichen]

Have them all face forward if you don't want the train to be able to reverse

(that could lead to it unintentionally flipping)

Some people like to have 1 locomotive at the front and the rest at the end so that the first freight car is always after the locomotive

[velvet warren]

doing some more testing on the advanced train settings

well it works with one locomotive, currently does not work with 2 locomotives turning away from eachother, next test will be 2 locomotives, but turning in the same direction

interesting, it breaks with 2 locomotives, but work just fine with one

[woeful zenith]

Is that just because of the length of the train?

2 locomotives facing opposite ways work with a non-looped rail line pretty well. And then a looped one would just have them all facing the same direction

[unique cypress]

Is the platform the back locomotive stopped on a cargo platform? Why?

Swap it to an empty platform, if it's not already one

[velvet warren]

yes, it used to be, because I designed this station as a modular one, swapping it to empty didn't change the fact that 2 locomotives will not undock properly after they've been fully unloaded

[unique cypress]

But I think it might be a new 1.1 bug, too. I have never had anything like this happen, and you're the second person with the same issue within the last month

[velvet warren]

not because length, just tried with 2 locomotives and one freight, same problem

[unique cypress]

Though all of my mulit-locomotive trains had the locomotives at the front but idk if that's relevant

[velvet warren]

but it's fast enough with just one locomotive so I can live with that

[woeful zenith]

I'm gonna guess the train was attempting to reverse and that's why it broke

[unique cypress]

It shouldn't even be allowed to try to reverse considering the signalling

[woeful zenith]

Oh I see

[velvet warren]

not that too since I tried with both locomotive rotation

[woeful zenith]

This is truly a
When the train doesn't train
Moment

[velvet warren]

yeah I don't have any idea what or why it happened too, tried that with different stations, same settings, and it consistently breaks

[mossy ibex]

can someone explain the different train loading modes to me? I'm not sure I get them

[unique cypress]

one load completed or wait x seconds: train arrives at the station, immediately attempts to perform a load/unload operation on each wagon, regardless of how many items there are to move. if there's 1 item in a platform set to load and there's space for at least 1 item in the wagon, that one item will be moved. after all wagons finish loading/unloading, the train departs. if there's absolutely nothing to move, it'll depart after x seconds

one load completed and wait x seconds: same as above, but the train will wait x seconds before loading/unloading (it's possible it'll wait x-27 seconds before performing a load/unload, so it finishes after x seconds, because the load/unload operation takes 27s, haven't checked that)

wagon fully loaded/unloaded and wait x seconds: after the train arrives, it'll check whether it's possible to perform a load/unload operation moving all 32 stacks of items in the platform/wagon. if not, it'll do noting until it is. the operation is performed if the wagon will have all of its slots empty or full after it's performed. so for load, the platform has to contain enough items to completely fill the wagon, and for unload, it has to have enough empty slots to contain all the items currently in the wagon. this is evaluated for each wagon/platform individually, so they will not necessarily perform the load/unload operation at the same time. if x is more than 0s, the train will not do anything until x seconds pass, and only then start attempting loads/unloads

wagon fully loaded/unloaded or wait x seconds: same as above, but after x seconds pass, the load/unload operation will be performed, regardless of the state of the wagons/platforms before/after (again, it's possible it watis for x-27 seconds before starting so it finishes after xs). but if all the wagons get fully loaded/unloaded before x seconds pass, it'll just leave without waiting the full x seconds

disclaimer: these are all my own observations, not verified by anyone else, the wiki, or checking the code. it's possible I am wrong somewhere

[normal latch]

i was thinking of using it to make turbofuel to then turn into more rocket fuel for more power

but i'll probably just sink it to start with since its already gonna be way more power than i need for the foreseeable future lol

[normal latch]

just one pure node hence the connundrum

[woeful zenith]

Ah then yeah limited to belt speed

[knotty hornet]

Or, send it to an ammo factory to make turbo ammo or nobs 😏

[normal latch]

heh i thought about that too, and i think the resin as well can be used to make fabric for filters

i mostly use my nobelisks though for hunting

[knotty hornet]

Precisely, no waste

[normal latch]

i realized nobs are just beastly out in the wild

but i guess if i had unlimited turbo ammo... i'd use it more heh

[mossy ibex]

I have heard that turbo ammo isn't great? Too low damage even given the clip size and speed?

I go between normal and homing

[knotty hornet]

It's the same damage

[mossy ibex]

my gf loves homing because she's not that good at aiming

[knotty hornet]

maaaaybe a tiny tick less

[vapid gorge]

? I enjoy it. Automate it, have infinite ammo, go brrrr

[normal latch]

yea i think part of why i like nobs at the moment is that i automated them to have unlimited

so i dont have to think about it, just throw them around

[knotty hornet]

Yeah, tiny bit less

[mossy ibex]

haha, sorry, what KY said

[woeful zenith]

Bro I use nobelisks for everything. Destroying trees, breaking rocks, killing enemies including the gas plant ones, and the gas rocks too. The solution to everything is to blow it up

[knotty hornet]

Okay, so it is a tiny tick less, which just means that, in practice, it's basically the same damage cuz of RoF

[mossy ibex]

one reason I don't like nobs is that I try to preserve nature as much as possible and I end up killing a bunch of trees if I'm not super careful

[normal latch]

respect

in real life protect environment for sure (hence my pic is lorax)

[woeful zenith]

Yeah if you're trying to conserve the environment definitely don't use nobelisks

[knotty hornet]

And tbh, if you have that much trouble killing the littler guys anyway, you need extra help.

[normal latch]

in game, blow everything up lol, at least for me

[mossy ibex]

20% less damage isn't nothing, but yeah if you can aim then turbo ammo seems fine

[normal latch]

maybe in a second playthrough i can try to preserve

[knotty hornet]

Considering the final column of that graphic you sent, I'd say my point is made.

Also, my point still stands, ammo automation is a good use for CompCoal, especially if you're just gonna sink it otherwise.

[vapid gorge]

You can just use SCIM to replace the Flora

[normal latch]

scim?

[mossy ibex]

eh, I tend to garden, so if I have been pruning then I have to readd it all, it gets annoying

[unique cypress]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

we really need a !scim command

[normal latch]

that can replace flora in my save?

[unique cypress]

it's a save editor in general

iirc it does have a "respawn flora" button but I've never used it

[knotty hornet]

Would you really want to? 😳

You hit the button, and then you got plants growing through foundations like leg hairs sticking through socks.

[mossy ibex]

I have used it occasionally when I accidentally a big tree

but yes, you have to go back over all the stuff sticking out of foundations, haha

[tall nimbus]

what's the best oder for following large satisfactory calculator builds? I never really know where to start (eg: url.jennytime9.net/G <<-- 5 radio control units +mods and alts)

[vapid gorge]

what?

[tall nimbus]

the main thing is that, looking at the map, there is really no good place to build it in general so how do i figure that best? is it faster to build mini-factories along the way and make the final product in a place or bring everything in one spot?

I've gotten fedup of building km of pure trainlines bc everything is scattered and following sfcalc is easy to get off track

[knotty hornet]

Highly "depends" ™

But if you can't find a place with everything, you're gonna need to bring some stuff back, so might as well bring it all back and deal with it centralized. (That's what I'd do)

[vapid gorge]

well in general if you're planning a nice big permanent factory , plan recipes along with location

there's generally some place that will get you 90% of resources for any given factory on location. Unless you're doing something wild

[tall nimbus]

let's just continue assuming this

Unless you're doing something wild
bc I, alot of the time, have already used nodes for other megas

[vapid gorge]

well then you have to compromise. I don't bother with specific factories until I'm building my world plan, and then I allocate all the spots for hubs in one go

aalso that scim plan is really annoying. Can't even tell what resources you need at agland

and you're using bio coal so you'll never be able to automate it?

[vapid gorge]

in any case, you can build this in the east swamp. It's got everything

[tall nimbus]

tbf, did just put in the world and immediately took what it gave without checking too much but already the oil is quite a pain since that is on the other side of the bauxite which is really far away from my quartz

[tall nimbus]

not if you already have an alu mega...

[vapid gorge]

well don't know what you're using so can't help. alter the recipes then.

I managed to make this into like 8 hubs all nicely placed around the world with almost all the resources being local so it's very doable https://www.satisfactorytools.com/0.8/production?share=KmyBKCekcosWn03NxKTl

[strong loom]

same

[crimson moat]

Standard rifle ammo does 25% more damage, and when tap firing it has 2.5x of the DPS.

Turbo only has a niche if you're going to warmup into basically emptying the clip into something, and you have to be close to them for that to actually out-damage other ammos.

[knotty hornet]

Already saw the chart, thank you

Turbo ammo isn't as inaccurate as everyone says, especially if you maintain decent RoF and don't let it out full blast.

It easily tears down the larger varieties of creatures from medium to close range, and combined with jetpack, means even close-range engagements are relatively safe.

Also, if you are only tap firing, then turbo ammo gives you nearly 5× the magazine capacity while only requiring 25% more shots, so the tradeoff is pretty clear.

So in conclusion... skill issue, git gud, scrub. 😎

(Teasing)

[slate crypt]

why is the train not loading up? its just driving back and fourth

i have this train station set to pick up only plastic and rubber

and the other to unload it

does the train station have to be behind the storage shippers?

[knotty hornet]

Double check the load/unload mode on both ends, make sure the correct station type lines up with the correct car, etc.

[unique cypress]

check that the station is oriented correctly. it looks like it might not be?

it should look like this from above === (] [] [] [] [] ===

where === are rails, [] are platforms (empty or cargo) and the (] is the station

the orientation of the station roof is important

make sure it's not like this: === [) [] [] [] [] ===

[main thicket]

anyone know exactly how much clock speed should i set a coal gen in order to consume exactly 100/min water?

[unique cypress]

100/45*100

[knotty hornet]

2.2222...

Or 222.2222%

Which is the math he said ☝️

Wait noyes

[velvet warren]

@limpid vapor ignore the belting, I'll use the merger/splitter layout though, starting from here I'd add vertical conveyors to allow the crossings to not clip, then shorten and compress the splitters and mergers as much as possible so it's compact, and there's your 3 to 4, but if you still haven't figured it out in like 6-8 hrs, dm me, I'll send you the blueprint as soon as I get it done

orange is input and cyan is output

[knotty hornet]

Very clever

Yeah, definitely can be cleaned up with lifts, but that'll do

[unique cypress]

looks correct

[velvet warren]

btw can I just split every output of a 3 by 4 to get a 3 by 8? in theory I should be, right?

[unique cypress]

depends what your goal is. it would be bottlenecked in some situations if you did that

[velvet warren]

nvm I couldn't stay still, @limpid vapor what do you need again? 3 to 4?

[limpid vapor]

ayy, i actually need 3 to 8, but i should be able to just split the 4, right?

[velvet warren]

trying to think of edge cases where splitting the 4 would be a bottleneck

alright, thought of it now, so basically if half your system is blocked up (2/4)

[unique cypress]

when you don't want equal outputs

[velvet warren]

then the other 2 where you split them into 4, instead of having max speed of the 3 input, you now are limited to max speed of 2

[unique cypress]

it's fine if you want 8 equal belts, but that's not the only case in which you could want to use a balancer

[velvet warren]

to simplify my chain of thought

if you split each output of a 3x4 into 2 to make a 3x8

and half of the system is blocked off, you are basically limited to a 3x2, which is slower than if you blocked off half of a true 3x8

[limpid vapor]

hmmm

[velvet warren]

will your frieghts ever be unloaded unequally, causing one station to be full before another?

[limpid vapor]

aaah, well, yes

funny thing that, i have a pretty kooky system going on the unloading end

[velvet warren]

just place a balancer both on load and unload

[unique cypress]

maybe you should use a balancer there to lol

[velvet warren]

what are you doing not spamming balancers lol

[limpid vapor]

uhhhhhh, well, im just not the biggest fan of building them

[velvet warren]

I'll look at you as if you were insane

[unique cypress]

it'd be much easier if you just didn't care about clipping

[velvet warren]

wdym you clip

[limpid vapor]

its like 5 main lines, then the last 3 are each split into 5, and i collect 3 of those and merge them into each 5

unloading is 8:15

[velvet warren]

so if I get you right, 3x600 input, and 8 stations output?

[limpid vapor]

well, i need 8 outs balanced between 15 ins, this was my hacky solution for that

[velvet warren]

so how many coal lines do you have coming in? they can all be compressed down into 3x mk5?

[limpid vapor]

its 3 pure coal nodes with mk2 miners on them

[unique cypress]

do you even need 8 wagons for that?

that's a max RTT of over 14 minutes

[limpid vapor]

i just decided at one point that i wanted most of my trains to have 8 wagons idk, the system is already built

[velvet warren]

@limpid vapor how much clipping will you accept, is this much acceptable? I can make it less clipping at the cost of space

[limpid vapor]

thats perfectly fine yeah

i like having lots of big trains, that are not constantly moving, should provide me a lot of overhead for traffic

[nimble nacelle]

just dropping my balanced ternary XOR gate here
good night

[limpid vapor]

damn that some gigabrain stuff

[limpid vapor]

just to address this, the train is set to leave when fully loaded/unloaded

my understanding with this setup was that the unloading end shouldnt really care about what the loading end is doing

my thinking was that even with my funny unloading system, it should just mean that the train waits at the unloading station, to unload, instead of at the loading station

[velvet warren]

now that's a 3 to 4 done

[limpid vapor]

that was pretty quick

will it suffice then?

[velvet warren]

definitely if your train returns to the loading station empty, there shouldn't be any imbalance

[limpid vapor]

it will 100%

[velvet warren]

done lol

[limpid vapor]

epic, DMs?

[velvet warren]

sure

[unique cypress]

yeah, the loading side doesn't care about the unloading side, but the opposite isn't always true

[limpid vapor]

the unloading side consumes at the exact rate, even if unloading on the platforms is uneven

it should just take longer for the train to unload, right?

[velvet warren]

I should blueprint my 6 to 6 in case this same thing happens again where I need to redo a balancer

[unique cypress]

because you're unloading 3 belts, if you fuck up enough, you could end up with only 2 platforms supplying items by the end, resulting in a bottleneck to 1560/min

but as long as that doesn't happen and you get 3 belts sustained at all times, it's fine

[limpid vapor]

well, they are unloading into containers, i have kept an eye on the containers themselves, they seem to be roughly equal

[velvet warren]

I love balancers so much that even for a factory that outputs 6 equal lines, distributing into 6 wagons that always arrive empty, I still put down a 6 to 6 balancer, just because I can

[unique cypress]

I do that too. not because I can, but because a balancer ensures the belts will still be equal, even if I fuck something up. connecting directly could mess up the train if something doesn't go according to plan

[velvet warren]

it's in case one, two, or three stations gets their items unloaded, I can still have 2x belt throughput going to them to refill them asap vs only one belt per station

although that edge case would never happen, it's nice to know the system is as robust as it could

[limpid vapor]

[velvet warren]

wait wtf, I think I messed up that center splitter

just delete it and rotate it so the input is the same way as the other 2

[limpid vapor]

[velvet warren]

alright nice

just had to turn on my pc again to fix it on my end lol

[main thicket]

are fluid transfer rates on trains accurate?

[velvet warren]

comon, I turned on my pc to fix one splitter, not reworking the fuck out of the balancer for a more compact layout

[slate crypt]

So do i need as many cargo loaders as i have train shipping carts?

Rn my train has 3 carts but i only have 1 loader

[unique cypress]

Depends what you want to achieve exactly?
This was only an example of how to arrange the station and the platforms

[brisk smelt]

generally don't transport raw fluids

[dusky dust]

Yes, though you need to make sure the stations are buffered properly. Here's a couple of designs which should work fine: #design-and-architecture message
#design-and-architecture message

Transporting fluids by train is fine; I wouldn't recommend making really long pipelines, though. For gasses you may find it nicer to should really always package + ship that way, since gasses often compress better, and don't play nicely with buffers (edited to be more precise)

[unique cypress]

Especially because the throughput per wagon is 1.5-1.9x better when you package

More, if it's a gas, not a fluid

[slate crypt]

Im transporting rubber and plastic to my main product base

A large container fills up in about 15 minutes

[noble timber]

No reason not to unless it's a gas

[main thicket]

my issue is that the train throughput is fine i use 3 trains to transport 900 nitrogen gas /min. but all of that gas is used in 4 blenders to make nitric acid each requiring 225. but for some reason the gas just wont move into them

it "sucks" from the buffer like 300 ish

its 2 buffers with 450/min each**

[dusky dust]

Ah, actually I should've said something different about gasses above, eh? I have not actually tested myself, so this is secondhand, but: apparently gasses do not play nicely with buffers

Something about their behavior can just make stuff weird; even stronger recommendation to never use buffers with gasses

[main thicket]

they do not play nicely with anything tbh

[dusky dust]

And since with fluid freight cars you need buffers in order to smooth out delivery, it means that effectively you probably shouldn't use fluid freight cars for gasses

So for gasses, it's definitely recommended to just package and transport that way, instead of using fluid cars on trains

[velvet warren]

they play nice with packagers, headlift requirements, and it seems like less sloshing and backflow too

[noble timber]

ive moved nitrogen by train once because I was deragnged but it was so long ago I forgot how I made it work

I just remember it being an absolute nightmare though

[brisk smelt]

compression ratios

1200 > 600

[main thicket]

will a really long pipeline work? from the extractor directly into the blender

[noble timber]

By design fluid trains have less throughput than freight trains because when you package the fluids to then unpackage elsewhere you need a second train to return the empty containers

[velvet warren]

just one wagon for the empty tanks and another for the filled tanks, then packager on each side, one packaging, the other unpackaging

[noble timber]

We are talking about unpackaged nitrogen

[velvet warren]

just don't transport unpackaged nitrogen, package them

[dusky dust]

Anecdotally I think really-long pipelines are more likely to be okay with gasses than they are with fluids, though if you want a system that's as foolproof as possible, ironically packaging+unpackaging is probably better

[velvet warren]

packaging them even gives a 4x compression ratio, so your previously 4 fluid wagon stations now shrinks to 2 item stations

[brisk smelt]

the same train can unload the full ones and pick up the empty ones

[dusky dust]

Two sets of nice+short pipelines instead of one really long one == problems on either end should be easier to debug

And yeah, just use a second car (or second set of cars) on the same train for the empties

[noble timber]

You still need another station which is another stop, or you double the length of the train which you would do with the fluid anyway

[brisk smelt]

what difference does another station make

[unique cypress]

There's a few reasons

[noble timber]

If you are running your train at optimal throughput then it will mess up your calculations

[brisk smelt]

then you have shitty calculations

[dusky dust]

Doubling the length of the train would be generally preferrable to adding an extra set of stops, since the load/unload animations take time

[noble timber]

No not really because you have doubled the wait time for no reason 😂

[unique cypress]

You can't run at max throughput with unpackaged fluids

But you can with packaged, even with double stations

[noble timber]

This is what I would do also but then at that point just use a fluid train 🤷‍♂️

Provided it is a liquid you are moving and not a gas

[dusky dust]

Except that gasses don't play well with fluid cars (again, apparently - I acknowledge this is secondhand info and I have not tried fluid cars w/ gasses personally)

Oh, heh, right.

[unique cypress]

Not to mention that max throughput with items is higher than with liquids

[noble timber]

Yeah I am 100% not suggesting you try and move gasses by train lol

[dusky dust]

So yeah, we're on the same page. :) I was talking gasses specifically up there. I'm Team Fluid Cars. :)

[main thicket]

so the problem now is i dont have space for another train station in order to return the empty canisters back

[dusky dust]

Let's see how stridently we can argue the same point at each other! I mean actually let's not do that, but y'know.

[noble timber]

Happens all the time here i stg

when so many people say the same thing 5 minutes apart it's hard to track what's actually being said lmao

[dusky dust]

That kind of thing is why I generally build my logistics first and then factory second; makes it easier to adjust for unexpected complications. :)

(Probably also a holdover from making building-material-logistics, pre-Depots)

[main thicket]

yeah i was 100% certain raw gas transportation would work (sad face)

[unique cypress]

And that's why I always build in areas that are open on at least 3 sides so I have no issues expanding

[velvet warren]

I just build my stations open air and the factory next to it, really easy to expand the train station

[noble timber]

@main thicket Have a look on youtube and see if anyone has done a video on specifically using trains for nitrogen, might be worth a shot

[main thicket]

i could use a belt to bring it back but at this point i might just build a straight pipe

[noble timber]

As I said earlier I did it a long time ago but cannot remember how I got it working properly

[main thicket]

thanks ill try that first

[noble timber]

How far is it? If it is less than 2 pipes (I think that's what you said before) then it may just be worth doing the pipe

[dusky dust]

Alternatively, at that stage of the game you've probably got drones available. Could scrap the train line and just put some drone ports on the roof instead. :)

Plenty of room up there, presumably!

[noble timber]

Drones are my answer to everything in my lastest save because I am too lazy to extend the rails at the moment

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, I've got a bad habit of leaning hard into drones once I've got them. Always have to remind myself to keep running some rail, 'cause my favorite method of cross-map travel is passenger rail

[main thicket]

about that far

hold on drones can use coal as fuel right?>

[noble timber]

Nah

[dusky dust]

No, Packaged Fuel is their lowest-tier fuel

[noble timber]

All the fuels, batteries and the fuel rods

[main thicket]

oh

[noble timber]

but don't even bother with regular fuel tbh

[noble timber]

I mean that's at most like 1.5-2 km right?

[main thicket]

something like that yeah

[noble timber]

Wouldn't take too long to build a pipe across the entire desert lol

[main thicket]

at this point yeah i dont know why im thinking for other solutions

[noble timber]

If you have excess coal what about trucks?

[main thicket]

i dont trust them

[noble timber]

They are pretty reliable these days

[dusky dust]

Trucks (and tractors) can be 100% reliable, though I understand not wanting to spend the time to learn their ins-and-outs

[noble timber]

WIll auto-correct themselves if they ever get stuck

[main thicket]

if i was building a normal factory sure but im making a nuclear power plant so yeah

[dusky dust]

But yeah, anecdotally, long gas pipelines seem to have fewer problems than long liquid pipelines; running pipes along the desert would probably be fine

[noble timber]

I've ran nuc off of trucks before haha

It was scary until I learned that they were in-fact ok

However I am now thinking that they may not be able to hold enough coal to make that journey

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it'd help to have experience running logistics with 'em prior to using 'em for power generation, just from a peace-of-mind angle. :)

[main thicket]

well off to building a really long pipeline accross the desert

actually 2 really long pipelines cause i need 900 nitrogen

[noble timber]

I still need to build another 120 fuel gens for my fuel plant

Sick of this project honestly

[main thicket]

turbofuel ?

[noble timber]

Yeah

80,000 mw total

At least I get 1000 rubber and plastic out of it also

[main thicket]

it was the reason i quit my last world

i was making a 45000mw

[dusky dust]

Heh, I reached Fuel-Gen-Spam burnout way back in Update 3. :D

[noble timber]

I've overclocked half of them but refuse to do more than that

[dusky dust]

I'd personally rather build nuclear any day instead of spending hours placing fuel gens. :P

(Not that I don't build out fuel power, but I don't tend to go wild with it)

[brisk smelt]

megaprint is your best friend

[noble timber]

This will tide me over to nuclear but I fear it is not enough power

[velvet warren]

I just spam them in bursts of 144 (600m³/min of rocket fuel) at a time, as I need more, it's pretty fast once it's blueprinted for 4 gens per click

[dusky dust]

Yeah, 5x5 blueprints help a lot w/ fuel gens, at least

[noble timber]

Yeah the people that build up to like a TW of fuel power make me question humanity

how the hell they have the will to do that I have no idea

[velvet warren]

you mean this? 🤣
#streams-and-videos message

[noble timber]

That is a good example yes 😂

[velvet warren]

dude I thought 288GW was big 😂

[noble timber]

I don't think I ever done more than about 120 GW in fuel power

And in that project I literally just placed a big concrete slab and spammed them down to get it over with

That was before blueprinting also... what was I doing with my life 🤣

[velvet warren]

I thought getting to the tallest peak in the game is it, turns out there's another achievement for getting to the world height limit

[main thicket]

ahh yes. should be done by next week

[noble timber]

At least you can build the pipe under the rails

use the station for something else

[main thicket]

yeah thats the thought. dont really know how tho

[noble timber]

Have you unlocked wall mounts in the awesome shop?

[main thicket]

yeah

[noble timber]

Should be fine then

[main thicket]

it works with a beam

[noble timber]

My new favourite obsession is chrome painted pipe supports and belts

[main thicket]

it looks good at least

[slate crypt]

How big is the mk2 blueprint cube

How many foundations

[deft lichen]

1 more in each direction than mk1

!wikisearch Blueprint+Designer

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Blueprint+Designer

[trail matrix]

Guys I went crazy and overengineered my electronics/oil factory with 100% efficiency, matching inputs/outputs etc without manifold. Some stuff like the quickwire is not in yet, as it's so tedious

[distant knoll]

I made a user friendly planner called SatisfiedVisual posted on the wiki page. Give it a try, I made it for myself and for the community
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Online_tools

[solar junco]

@vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

the main issue here is you're branching the manifold over multiple floors

fluids are generally unhappy with this

[solar junco]

all refineries are at the bottom floor the top floor is just for blenders

[vapid gorge]

sure but this pipe is feeding HOR to both the refineries on this floor AND the blenders above right?

[solar junco]

heres the plan if you need it btw

[solar junco]

yup

[vapid gorge]

"the main issue here is you're branching the manifold over multiple floors
[4:14 PM]
fluids are generally unhappy with this"

[solar junco]

so i should split the fluid before it goes up?

here basically

[vapid gorge]

that would be your best bet

clock a group of machines making HOR to make HOR just for the refineries and pipe it

clock a different group to pipe it directly to the blenders

this has the added benefit that lower flow pipes are easier to manage

[solar junco]

[vapid gorge]

it's not impossible to branch manifolds, even over multiple floors. But it can be a pain in the ass

[solar junco]

so this should work now ?

[vapid gorge]

from what I see? sure. There might still be other things around the corner that messes it up

[solar junco]

hopefully it works

[iron hamlet]

Hello can someone help me with math I'm not sure how I'm supposed to split pipes into 225 for a blueprint I made

Im making turbofuel the normal recepie

Its 2300 fuel

To turbofuel

I made a blueprint that's 225 to 187.5 for a mega power plant If someone can tell me either how to make that set up work or if I shoud use another recepie

[wind spade]

Put 255 in the pipe in the first place