math-and-meta

[unique cypress]

Or have the contents be symmetrical front to back I guess

[hoary oar]

i can 100% guarantee you that it is not user error, i've spent literally hundreds of hours trying to figure out what was going on.
there is not a single place on the entire rail network where a train can run in a loop in such a way to actually get turned around.
if you want i can even send you the save file, factories will break cause 1.0 changes, but the trains should keep working the same as long as power is up.

and it's happened to both trains with 2 stops and trains with 4 stops

[unique cypress]

A push-pull train doesn't need a loop to get turned around

[plush glen]

I'm actually really curious to take a look around, I'd love to get the file and see what's up if that's alright 👀

[frosty owl]

There have been some weird bugs involving trains going where they shouldn't be. It was quite rare, so I don't recall the details, but they too could explain a situation like the one described

Dunno if or when those got ironed out, but I remember them in between U7 and U8

[vapid gorge]

multiple push pull trains on a system is totally possible.
they are , however ,very obnoxious to make

[unique cypress]

Only push-pull trains were affected or all?

Because I had 0 pathing issues in U6 or U8, but I didn't use any double headed ones

[hoary oar]

i know its possible, i did it in U8, but i ran in to issues with trains turning around on their own, while having no explanation
and yes, it can be a bit obnoxious, because you have to keep track of which way the train is facing when deciding which items should go in to which station

[plush glen]

Could we possibly get a screenshot of the railway from above in the save editor? I might be able to spot things

[frosty owl]

All, iirc. Something about either (sorry for lack of detail, again I've seen it very rarely and long ago, salt is advised):

• Rail connections acting weird, with trains ending up on rails that shouldn't be linked to the one they were traversing
• Signals acting weird when trains engaged a junction at the same time, leading to otherwise impossible/not-considered routes

[hoary oar]

the one cut off at the bottom is a dead end station, as are all the others

also they're light blue because i ran power lines with rails

[plush glen]

And just to be sure, there isn't a single station on the entire network with anything attached to the front side of it, only ever platforms on the back?

[hoary oar]

correct

1 exception, but a weird one, 1 of the station has another station in front of it, but the one in front of it dead ends, there's no way for a train to turn around there.
was playing around with some weird station layout

like this

[plush glen]

Will trains ever try to go from one of these stations to the other one?

[hoary oar]

no, they're served by 2 seperate trains

[plush glen]

And none of your trains will ever try to go to the same station twice in a row? (for whatever reason)

[hoary oar]

they should not have any reason to, no

[plush glen]

And is it just Any train that could possibly flip, or are there specific routes that are problematic?

[hoary oar]

i've seen almost every train flip, even the ones that just have 1 freight car and a loc on either end, which is kinda funny

[plush glen]

Do you have them painted different colors to be able to see them flip like that? lol

[hoary oar]

yeah, after the first couple times it happened i started painting them to see if its an isolated problem on a specific part of the network or all over

[plush glen]

And have you ever observed one while it flipped, or only seen the result afterwards?

[hoary oar]

nah, never seen them actually flip.
if i had to guess it happened when i loaded the save file, but i really could not tell you

there never were any deadlocks on the system either, always ran smooth

[plush glen]

If it does indeed happen on loading the file, it might be possible (but tedious) to iron out what's happening by loading the game, making a save immediately, then quitting, and comparing those 2 saves in the editor

See if any trains have flipped in the 3 seconds it takes to load the game and make a new save

[hoary oar]

im not gonna spend time trying to figure out what happened, its an old file from and old update
restarted when 1.0 dropped and just switched to not using push pull unless its fully 100% isolated

[plush glen]

Makes sense yeah

[hoary oar]

it kinda sucks, because i really prefer the look of a dead end station, but im just not willing to deal with that ever again

[plush glen]

Unless a train somehow got interrupted and re-pathed, by either a save/load or some other weird bug, I'm not seeing how that would be possible

[plush glen]

I mean you could still use dead end stations if you make your trains front-back symmetrical

[hoary oar]

yeah, i could.
but there's a number of weird things with my kind of playstyle that just don't make it feasible to do

i almost always have more than 1 type of item per train station for example, so that makes it impossible for like 95% of cases

[plush glen]

Fair yeah
I've only ever done a multi-item stop once, so I don't understand the struggle lol

And even then, I made the train front-back symmetrical to avoid the problem xD

[hoary oar]

for some reason i love overcomplicating stuff
the more stations a train can go to the better
also im not a huge fan of how much space train stations take up, so i'd rather build a single 6 freight platform one than 3x2 or something similar

[plush glen]

Overcomplicating is the fun of the game!!

[unique cypress]

meanwhile, most of my trains have exactly 2 stops on their schedule and carry only one kind of item each

[plush glen]

Same here, and only like 3 of mine are bi-directional trains lol

I actually even have some bi directional trackage, but then I have loops at the stations and run single directional trains

[unique cypress]

I have exactly 0 bi-di trains or rails

I build all rails with the assumption that I'll expand them at some point

and bi-di makes that difficult

[hoary oar]

all of this mess in the swamp started with, oh i need aluminium, and there's bauxite here.
now im making 3K alu, 100 automated wiring, 400 leftover caterium 200 leftover copper, 100 encased beams, 48 crystal oscillators
and on top of that im also making every basic item that can be constructed from only iron and concrete for my dimensional depot

and there's sushi belts involved

[plush glen]

That's such a wonderful beautiful monster of a factory 🥹

[hoary oar]

it's definitely the most extreme example, but this is the kind of stuff that just happens

[plush glen]

That's an absolutely beautiful example
None of my factories ever get that large and intense xD

[storm geode]

bro that thing is huge, even if it's only covering swamp that's an awful lot of moving parts

[hoary oar]

doesn't look great from afar but up close its not half bad

just please don't ask how many belts are clipping in to each other hidden below the foundations

[mossy ibex]

I have been thinking about what to do with the swamp. Thinking pillars and platforms and bridges

[unique cypress]

ah, yeah, there was (is?) that bug with switches appearing where they shouldn't and connecting rails that aren't. I knew about it in U8 at least and idk if it was a thing in U6. So whenever I got that glitched stwitch, I fixed it. Maybe if you just left it, it could cause trains to turn around, idk

[hoary oar]

there's still some issues with that, but generally you would notice it because trains just could not go in to a certain direction or signals would give a warning light

now i think its mainly to do with the autoconnect being a bit weird, most of the time i have to replace intersections manually before signals decide that they actually wanna work

[storm geode]

so, how many 😂 ?

[hoary oar]

more than 2, lets just say that

[storm geode]

between 2 and 10^100 more or less, thanks 👍

[knotty hornet]

I keep the swamp open as hunting grounds, so many stingers kitty cats out there

[knotty hornet]

Let's say you have nine machines to feed in a line, and throughput demand will not exceed belt speed. Do you:
A) do a straight line manifold 9 splitters long,
Or B) group the machines into threes and do a layered manifold 3 splitters long, feeding into each group of three?
I always do and swear by the second method, but my friend says it's a waste of time and resources.

[unique cypress]

whatever fits better geometrically

both are functionally identical

[knotty hornet]

I see the second option as functionally better, thats where we disagree

It feed machines more evenly than a straight through

[unique cypress]

both can feed all 9 machines 🤷‍♂️

0 difference to me

[knotty hornet]

I mean, it might matter if the throughput is very close to consumption, cuz with straight throughs, the final machine can be lacking at times

[unique cypress]

if the last machines aren't running at 100%, then you either aren't feeding them enough items or didn't wait long enough for the previous ones to fill

regardless of the distribution method, unless you're limited by belt speed, all machines will run at 100% if provided enough items

splittting into 3 manifolds won't make it run better, it will just get there faster

[knotty hornet]

I mean, that's kinda the point, right? It gets to all the machines faster without having to wait for the ones at the front of the manifold to fill.

That's how I see it anyway.

[analog crag]

i had this idea for super computers because we are limited on copper and caterium where i set up the oil rig any advice or does this seem good enough

[knotty hornet]

Looks sick

[unique cypress]

I mean because I do belt balancing, I'd most likely have to wait for all 9 to fill up completely. which would take longer with a split than one long manifold

and unless the fill takes several hours, I generally don't care about fill time

[unique cypress]

got any bauxite? cause then you could use super-state comp

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=N3xpgyb20JUYBORC2pZt

[analog crag]

good idea, looks like there was some closer than i thought

[analog crag]

turns out the excess water is breaking that satisfactory modeler program

so i think i'll just stick with the one i had before

[unique cypress]

just use a prio merger

[visual fossil]

Any way to use a smart splitter on a dimensional depot to overflow full stacks or is it just one per item due to the splitter to belt limitation?

[unique cypress]

you need one uploader per item

or multiple for one, if you want faster upload

if you load multiple items into 1 uploader, it'll just clog

[visual fossil]

So no way of bolting the smart splitter into the input. Sad times! 😂

Was trying to find a lazy interim way of doing it until I get set up

[lone igloo]

Can someone help me with using the Satisfactory tool. I dont really use it at all and trying to make plan for my aluminum factory to comsume mainly entire mk5 belt of bauxite. I dont want to use crystal as I will want to turn most of it into diamonds later on. So I'm using Sloppy Alumina -> Electrode Aluminum Scrap -> Pure Aluminum Ingot.

[unique cypress]

so... what's the issue?

[lone igloo]

I want to input that into the tool so it can show me general production chain but for some reason it is showing me bauxite with sam ore... so confused.

[unique cypress]

disable SAM

and anything else you don't want to use

[dusky dust]

The solver basically has different weights for how "valuable" it thinks various materials are, and ends up solving using those weights in mind. It does tend to prefer using SAM conversions for a lot of stuff; as KYO297 said, disabling SAM is often the quickest way to make sure it doesn't do that

Once you get into Tier 9 it's often better to disable the individual Converter recipes, since you may need SAM for some of those

Basically any of the options you change in any of the tabs there will cause the solver to re-solve, so you can click around and make changes all you want and see the results more or less immediately

[lone igloo]

@dusky dust ty, yeah gotta sorta learn it as I go. I usually just mainly run math my self but CBA for this run as I wanna make massive world of things and cant be asked to be doing math in between just wanna type in stuff I use and build you know.

Also is it good for that mid late game to make full mk5 belt of aluminum ingots 780. Or should I do like 600 as atm im trying to get that mass producing for radio units and other phase 4 things. Or maybe even make x2 mk5?

[dusky dust]

Heh, as always, the scale you build at is definitely up to you, and what you need is gonna depend on your own personal build style (and recipe choice, etc)

The way I tend to handle aluminum is that I basically max out a Bauxite node making Aluminum Ingots, and send all the ingots to a sink. Then as other factories need aluminum (sheets/casings/heatsinks/tanks) I'll process some of the aluminum and set up the export. Over time the amount of Ingots getting sunk goes to zero; once I get too low, it's time to set up another aluminum factory

Obvs that's just one way of doing it, though

Over the course of a game I'll end up with many different sites making aluminum, but I like it 'cause it keeps things fresh. Tend to use different production chains depending on what other resources are nearby, etc.

[lone igloo]

@dusky dust I was going to make the same thing whre I just sink ingots until I need them. Its funny you said that.

[eternal wharf]

If I want to pass power through multiple floors vertically, can I place a wall socket on the ceiling and place a pole on top of it to connect it or will I still have to run a wire clipping through the floor to connect them?

[lone igloo]

I will max out these 3 nodes to mk5 belts and I think I will have enough for a while.

[dusky dust]

The socket/pole arrangement you suggested should hide that internal cable 'cause it'll clip right through the pole. You could also use a Beam or Beam Connector and place sockets on both the top and bottom (and deconstruct the beam stuff afterwards if you want a floor socket right on the foundation). Or, once you have elevators unlocked, they're a very handy way to distribute power to multiple floors

For me, my factory designs often have a sort of "logistics elevator" area where I can route lifts to various floors; prior to 1.1 I'd often just run power up that vertical corridor

(Still haven't actually played in 1.1 but I expect I'll probably use elevators mostly)

[eternal wharf]

ohh yeahh that worked, the wire is completely hidden, thank you

[unique cypress]

new cursed pipe lore just dropped
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1mwji7e/beware_of_the_vertical_junctions/

[inner gulch]

all in a day's work

[nova vortex]

when it says 2.25 does that mean i need 2 constructers and then underclock one to .25

[unique cypress]

It means that however you build it, whatever you build, it has to output 45 plates per minute

Could be 2@100%+1@25%, could be 1@225%, or 225@1% or whatever the hell you want

You can also build 3@100% and let them throttle themselves either by starving them of input or having the output fill up

[unique cypress]

Also, SCIM's production planner is a terrible calculator and I suggest you use something else instead. Like Satisfactory Tools

[nova vortex]

whats satisfactory tools

[unique cypress]

http://satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[mossy ibex]

thanks, I hate it

[light fox]

finally finished my fuel plant oh my lordy it took forever

[vapid gorge]

uncheck SAM ore, or the converter building, or untick the conversion recipes

[wet scarab]

POV: You build a calculator and that shit goes too deep

(actually works fine tho)

[wind spade]

out of curiosity, any specific reason to make a calculator instead of using the existing ones?

[wet scarab]

1. Personal challenge
2. Couldn't find a calculator for my specific needs (Overclock, and SommerSloops (even if I still need to add Somersloops in (kill me))
3. For fun
4. It's offline

and yes I know Satisfactory Optimizer exists but it's interface is horrid (basically json)

[wind spade]

fair, just asking (there's a lot of people who make their own calculators because they don't know about existing tools 🙂 )

[vapid gorge]

hmm well clock speed is included in anything thta gives you numbers for machines.
1 machine = 100 clock speed.

[wet scarab]

Figuring out power for the Quantum Encoder WITH overclocking AND Somersloops is going to be the end of me I swear

[wind spade]

eh, power is the easy bit

loops and byproducts are where the fun begins

(you can trust me, I made my own tool as well 😛 )

[wet scarab]

yeah I know
I already have a brain aneurysm thinking about it

[wind spade]

I went with "linear optimisation solver" way to calculate stuff, works pretty well 🙂

[cerulean stratus]

Noticed that if you use steel rods, 1 ingot is 4 rods

Feels pretty huge

[wind spade]

steel rods make screws cheaper than steel screws

[light fox]

i just turned on half of my fuel factory and its RUNNING!!!

[cerulean stratus]

Yeah, but if I'm using screws I'd just go steel screws to save machines

[wind spade]

yeah, as with everything, recipes are a choice each player makes separately 😉

[cerulean stratus]

I was just not expecting the numbers to be this good

I never use steel rod

[wind spade]

it's one of the reasons why you can't say "cast screws better than normal screws" 😛

[austere path]

Hello, a bit new to satisfactory, and and dumb when it comes to math and calculations. Trying to make smart plating factory, using 8 iron smelters.

[wind spade]

how much are you trying to make?

[cerulean stratus]

Like
There's more of a reason to use steel rod than to use steel pipe

[austere path]

Just want to use every last of it for smart plating

so don't know how many it would make

[wind spade]

calculate how much you need for e.g. 1 smart plating and then multiply that setup based on how much more can you fit

[unborn dome]

(I just use alts at my "cubes factory" to avoid iron rods and screws entirely...)

[austere path]

Well, I'm trying to allocate each of my 8 iron smelters dedicated for ingredients for smart plating.
Tried AI told me to create 3 iron plate constructors, and 10 iron rod, is that correct?

[wind spade]

never use AI for this

AI is crap

[austere path]

Yeah, I know now, that's why I dived into the discord haha

[wind spade]

and we have production planners that do infinitely better job at calculating production

[unborn dome]

AI is infamously bad at math in particular, because it operates on probability and isn't actually doing the math.

[austere path]

So, with knowing that I can use 1 smelter for 2 iron rods, how many should I allocate?

for plates and iron rods, I mean, then I need to calculate the screws hahaha

[wind spade]

again, much easier math is if you calculate from end product

[austere path]

oh, is that so?

[wind spade]

and I wouldn't "allocate each smelter one job"

as you can split it to multiple items

[unborn dome]

Here's a starting point for you. Tweak the numbers as needed.
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=2wF13iDL2f0UzbNK084U

And the alt recipes, if you've got any relevant ones

[austere path]

I'm new in the game, just got coal powerplant lol

wanted to make smart plates 'efficiently'

[unborn dome]

For example, you can set smart plating to "maximum", and under Items+Input, set the iron ore amount to how much you have available at your location, and it'll give you the absolute maximum number of smart plates you can make with the recipes you've got. If you've got alts, enable those under Recipes.

[austere path]

Okay, thanks I'll try learning how to use the calculator 🙂

[cerulean stratus]

So I've been doing the continuous space elevator challenge

I didn't realize just how big these numbers are

[mossy ibex]

I fel like I'mm just being dumb somehow

I have a 3:2 merge, the 3 lines are 300pm, it's merging into 2 mk2 belts

that should be 960pm capacity being filled with 900pm

but it's not flowing freely, all three feeder lines are stopping and starting

as if there's a bad belt somewhere

but I don't think there is

[unkempt hull]

your 3 300/min lines equate to 900/min, and you're splitting it into 2 mk2 belts. 900 split in half is 450, but the maximum items per minute that a mk2 belt can carry is 120. that's the bottleneck it seems. also, do double check that the rest of your belts have enough speed to carry all the items (e.g. if you're merging them all into one belt then splitting that into two, make sure the connecting belt actually supports 900/m), unless you already gave that info and i'm not reading it right

[unborn dome]

So some may recall I made an acid refinery to transport sulfuric and nitric acid by train. I'm now faced with just dismantling the entire thing, because A) I grossly overestimated the amount of nitric acid I'd eventually need (it does 240/min), and B) while it makes the amount of sulfuric I'll need (480/min), I've built it Too Damn Far from everything else to transport that much fluid by train without needing 3-4 trains once I add the nuclear fuel rod factory into the mix.
#design-and-architecture message

Before I do this, am I missing any other obvious uses for this much nitric acid, aside from plutonium fuel rods, the fused modular frames alt (already using it), and an obscene amount of rocket fuel?

[frosty owl]

Can't you move that much fluid using a single car of one train, rather than multiple ones?

[unborn dome]

Nope, it's too much throughput 😦 Before I added the second train, it was barely managing to sustain 150 sulfuric from where the acid refinery is above the grassy fields coal crater to the battery factory on the eastern edge of the red forest.

So if I'm going to be sending all this to the nuclear fuel rods factory (location decision not finalized yet, but very likely on the eastern side of the map), I'm probably going to need four acid trains 😕

So the travel time is the limiting factor here. The battery factory's station was down to maybe 1/4 of its capacity by the time the original single train came back the next time, and that was only travelling around half-way across the map.

[frosty owl]

That sounds weird... To be clear, you don't want to use multiple trains, even if they're all using the same stations, right?

[unborn dome]

I could, and I have, but four seems a bit silly, and also, like I said, I have way too much nitric production that's just being wasted.

(Four by my estimate...hopefully not even more)

I only need 100/min of nitric, and I built 240 lol

[frosty owl]

Tbh, there have been a few Updates since I moved fluids within trains, but I recall not having issues moving up to 1 pipe worth of fluid with just one train. 4 sound like they should be enough to make a loop around whole map 😅

[unborn dome]

It's a matter of distance and travel time though. I was fine going A to B at first, but when I added the nitric dropoff at the cubes factory for FMF, the 150/min sulfuric to B got kinda tight

[frosty owl]

Regardless, the only uses I see that you may haven't considered yet are for some Instant Scraps (aluminum) and the Leached recipes (less ores, more ingots)

[unborn dome]

I'd debated sending rails down the tight tunnel from the western red forest, but when I measured that route on the map, it's barely shorter than the current one due to the loop through the caves

[unborn dome]

And the weird liquid quartz one 😅

[frosty owl]

No, that's with Nitric acid, not Sulphuric

[unborn dome]

Yeah nitric is the one I have too much of

I need 300/min sulfuric for nuclear, which is why I'm concerned about the current setup, since the battery factory at 150/min of sulfuric cut it close for train travel time

[frosty owl]

🤦‍♂️ My bad
Then I think the best way to "sink" it would be for Quartz as you mentioned (good recipe BTW) or just more rocket fuel, which eventually can be used to "sink" power shards (Ionized fuel)

And yes, tbh, I do feel bad for the system and trying to find ways not to dismantle it xD
It just seems like a "waste" of effort

[unborn dome]

Yep, I think I must've severely overestimated how much rocket fuel I was going to make when I originally scoped this out (since my endgame plan is nuclear), and since RF only needs 10/min of nitric per craft cycle.

[unborn dome]

Yeah 😦 It's a pretty nice industrial vibe. Smaller version of my giant main oil refinery.

[frosty owl]

If it doesn't tie up resources that you'd rather use in other ways, I'd definetly keep it (possibly turning part of the production off)

[unborn dome]

I'd also considered the possibility of future game updates adding new nitric recipes that I'd end up regretting dismantling it

(But at this point, I assume that'd have to be a whole expansion, since the base game is "done" now)

[unborn dome]

But yeah, it's kinda just off on its own, with a nitrogen well for the nitric acid and a packaging setup for a drone port

[frosty owl]

That seems quite unlikely and very hard to predict (no hints about anything like that up to now)

[unborn dome]

Yeah exactly, unlikely, but I'd love a paid expansion like Factorio did (still on my todo list...)

So I might just build the fuel rod factory in the abyss cliffs south of the swamp (because it's a cool spot), and it has a nitrogen well and a sulfur node there, so maybe I'd just shift all the acid production there, and then send trains out for the batteries and FMFs, and just pipe the acid for the nuclear processes directly.

[frosty owl]

Better upvote relevant posts on the QA site about that ^^

[unborn dome]

Ok, downside: no water here aside from the byproduct that gets looped back into nitric...

[visual ocean]

Do you guys have good BPs for 45 degree angles?
im going to do this for 90s, but the 45 is a llittle confusing, since i cant place the BPs after

[cerulean stratus]

What if you could drop it halfway so another train picks it up, that makes throughout go up

[versed umbra]

Just to state the absolute joy I've had when I realised this: my Mk2 rail gun is a bit faster than my last one, 7km from 1 base at 1 corner of the map to the other base at the opposite corner, railgun takes me 20 seconds to travel, 21km a minute, 1260km/h, speed of sound is 1235km/h so my railgun officially operates at mach 1 roughly on par with most fighter jets. Only issue being that if I stay on max graphics settings it consistently crashes every time trying to render lol

[vapid gorge]

just do it manually, much faster than making a bp for every little thing

[wet scarab]

Well that's taking shape quite nicely!

[vapid gorge]

and how many 45 degree turns are you really going to make? make custom turns that work better around the terrain

[wind spade]

I spent 2k+ hours on automating a task I'm not even doing 🤔

[mossy ibex]

I'm interested in knowing the cause for this: https://youtu.be/pKtRonvHlFc?si=So1KGfgsSOI_Zs3L&t=441

tldw: he's explaining how the aluminium water feedback loop works but he has no idea why it works. I speculate the orientation of the junctions makes a different a la eteralunity's recent reddit post, but I'm not sure

[oblique hollow]

the junction orientation bug only matters in vertical arrangement

these are flat on the ground

[mossy ibex]

yeah I thought so but I couldn't think of a different theory

my theory being "there is some difference between the orientations, so some unknown mechanism unrelated to verticality is at work"

but I agree it doesn't make sense given my understanding of the "feature"

[oblique hollow]

funny enough is if i build it too it doesnt work

though i do have a certain guess

heh... if i add a valve on the freshwater pipe input it gets deprioritized as eternalunion mentioned

[mossy ibex]

so you got it to work only with a valve?

you didn't happen to try rotating the junctions just to rule out the guess?

[oblique hollow]

tested some more: didnt work in the end

[mossy ibex]

so at this point, you can't make what he did in the video work, is that right?

[unique cypress]

afaik, flat junctions tend to merge/split equally if they can

[mossy ibex]

sure but the video specifically talks about how that setup he has isn't working like that and I'm trying to figure out why

[unique cypress]

so if you needed more fresh water than you had byproduct, it'd work, at least untill the scrap output filled

but idk if any recipe combination has that

[mossy ibex]

this one?

[unique cypress]

that's the exact opposite of what I said

you'd need more fresh than byproduct for it to work

[mossy ibex]

got it, I did misinterpret you

I guess the normal move here then is VIP junctions

[wind spade]

normal move is separating fresh and recycled water

[mossy ibex]

sure but where is the masochism in that??

[wind spade]

you said "normal"

[mossy ibex]

masochism isn't normal for the average satisfactory enjoyer?

🙂

[wind spade]

average satisfactory enjoyer isn't normal 😛

[ripe wing]

okay so i just checked the plan for turbomotors, what the actual fuck

aint no way im building this

[mossy ibex]

you could think of it as multiple separate factories and just tackle them one at a time

it is, after all, a factory building game, haha

[ripe wing]

i think 2 per minute gonna be fine

okay 3

[unique cypress]

use some fkin alts

[ripe wing]

i mean, i dont even have turbomotors unlocked yet 😆

rn im doing supercomputers

[unique cypress]

I'd do this

[ripe wing]

yeah dw

[unique cypress]

I'm doing all of these in one spot lol

[ripe wing]

thats what im planning to do

im building here

[mossy ibex]

how many extractors can you fit in that water?

[ripe wing]

a lot i guess

[mossy ibex]

I was eyeing that exact spot yesterday, but I wasn't sure

seemed like only a few would fit, like 10 ish?

[ripe wing]

nah bro its all water

[mossy ibex]

oh oh, I mistook the shot for somewhere else, you're in the blue crater

yeah there's hella water there

[dusky bronze]

is that a mod to see what you've built on the map?

[mossy ibex]

yes, although you can see the same thing using SCIM

[dusky bronze]

yeah it just takes a few minutes to upload my save into it lmao

[mossy ibex]

I don't use the mod because I suspect it's CPU hungry, but I'm just guessing about that

[unborn dome]

So I'd need 540/min water to do what I was thinking, and that seems like a LOT to carry by train. I'd guess at least two tank cars, over a fairly short distance.

[earnest trench]

i have 18 coal generators at 1x clock speed. They should be generating 75 MW each, resulting in a total of 18x75 = 1350MW production. However, my plant happens to produce a stable 975 instead, (a whopping 375 MW drop from the promised supply) Why's that the case?

[unique cypress]

check their coal and water supply

[earnest trench]

all stacked up

[unique cypress]

and whether they're all connected to the same grid

[earnest trench]

oh

wait lemme check the grid

they're all definitnely in the same grid

[mossy ibex]

that just can't be true, 5 of your gens either aren't running or aren't connected somewhere. I guess crazier things have happened, but my money is on 5 of the gens not being connected even though they appear to be

[earnest trench]

NOPE NVM 5 OF THEM ARE OFF GRID

TYSM FOR ADVICE

[mossy ibex]

boom

[earnest trench]

THE PROMISED 1350

also can someone explain how to do ratios? I have 4 impure iron nodes and mk3 belts (overclocking isnt a problem dw abt that). Say im using regular iron plates and cast iron screws recipe. in what ratio would i split the iron ingots dedicated to plate production to that of screw production if im making reinforced plates ?

[mossy ibex]

I almost always use manifolds

[unique cypress]

that's way more plates than you need for personal use

[mossy ibex]

do you know about those?

[unique cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=8xH0ua9A9kmTUIv13qpj

[earnest trench]

me too

[earnest trench]

well dont we need tonnes for stuff like frames and stuff?

[hoary oar]

the easy soloution is to just not care, and manifold everything
in theory each one of these constructors could be making something with ingots at a different rate, and as long as you have enough ingots in total, they'll all run at 100%

there is load balancing tho, you can do quite a lot with splitters and get some really specific ratios. but it will always depend on exactly what you need. there is no, always do this and you're good kind of deal

[unique cypress]

I said for personal use. when you're making frames, plan for frames, not the plates for those

[mossy ibex]

eh, for asic stuff like plates just make what you need on site, don't try to centralize it

[earnest trench]

yeah

the idea is i make tiny satellite factories for basic stuff (iron plates, iron rods, copper wire, concrete, RP, copper sheet, etc.)

and ship em over to a central factory to make more complex stuff like modular frames, motors, smart plating, etc

[mossy ibex]

I think I have 1 constructor of plates for personal use with an industrial storage, I've never had a proble m

[mossy ibex]

personally I tghink that's more trouble than it's worth, but it's a legit option, so you do you

I tend to ship stuff at the complexity level of, say, motors or heavy modular frames and up

[earnest trench]

well its my first gameplay, and ig its better than sphagetti lol.

[earnest trench]

i do intend to do that once im at that level. i dont even have the 2nd space elevator upgrade yet

[mossy ibex]

well basically, with stuff like plates, the setup is so simple that it's not really worth shipping stuff. It's totally worth blueprinting a self contained factory though, like I have several BPs that take 120 iron ore and output plate, rods, or screws depending on the BP

so I can just plop the manifold down on site, and move to the more complex stuff

my one issue with that is that I like to build pretty and those manifold are not pretty, so I end up doing it from scratch pretty often, haha

[earnest trench]

do we both have different ideas of what manifolds are?

cuz to me, its just setting up constructors like a series of resistors

[mossy ibex]

when I say it I mean you feed the ingredients in on one belt and put a splitter in front of every input it needs to go into, instead of trying to split it into the correct ratios

[unborn dome]

I get around this by hiding the manifold splitters and mergers under the floor and just having lifts coming up

[mossy ibex]

oh, sure, Long Live Logistics Floors, but I go way harder than that. Each factory has a kind of aesthetic theme and different colors, and the layouts of the machines are often driven almost purely by aesthetics

like I have a factory with like 12 refineries but instead of a simple manifold I put them into a 3 layer tower that water falls the products down into the lobby of the building before merging them and sending them off

I will never do that again, there's no BP for it, and it's too big to BP anyway

[earnest trench]

how do i make myself some good, expandable, general use case blueprints?

[mossy ibex]

well, I mean I just have a splitter input that feeds smelters -> constructors -> mergers, with a single output. Some are a little tricky to fit in mk1 BP designer, but I managed

[earnest trench]

ic

[mossy ibex]

I chose 120 as my default input, you can go higher by overclocking or shoving more machines in or whatever, but with 120 I can just slap multiple down if I need to

[lone igloo]

Got a question, this is theory numbers just for this purpose. If I need lets say 600 of an item into 1 factory and I have factory producing 600 of that said item, but the item is being made across the world and I want to train that distance. The train will never keep up to deliver 600 of the said item? Would I have to over make the said item to keep up?

[unique cypress]

why would you need to make more? the train doesn't delete items

why do so many people think that?

[lone igloo]

no I dont think that

its travel distance I might need to make up for?

[unique cypress]

train has a transfer cap. like belts

if you shove 600/min into a mk4 belt, of course only 480 will make it to the other side

same with a train. if it's capable of transporting 600, it will

[unborn dome]

And if not, add more trains or more traincars, as I'm learning

[lone igloo]

I understand that. But if train has to travel idk 4 minutes meaning I would have to make sure the 4 minutes worth of produced items can be then transported to the destination right? Add more cargo to the train?

[unique cypress]

just buffer it

with industrial containers on both sides

[lone igloo]

ofc buffer it, if you dont buffer then wtf is point of a train.

[unique cypress]

you need them for max throughput anyway

[lone igloo]

with mk5 belts I can load train at 780 items p/m x2 with industrial buffers

[unique cypress]

instead of moving 600/min, it'll move 2400 every 4 minutes

[crimson plover]

And then the containers will allow the train to offload faster than the factory uses the items

If you have throughput issues add more cars to the train or add more trains to the route

[outer drift]

so i've got myself a bit of a tricky puzzle. wondering if anyone has suggestions for how to handle this best.

I've got a 7 story building of refineries meant for steamed copper sheets.

each floor has 22 refineries, but 2 on each floor are underclocked to 50% (so 21x refineries per floor, but I like symmetry.

each floor's refineries have 2 rows for inputs, and then merge in the middle for output.

I've got 4 belts of copper ingots load balanced coming in @ 825 / minute. (3300/m total)

I'm trying to figure out how to properly feed all the manifolds because the numbers aren't clean.
The factory wants 3300 items, but each floor needs 472.5 ingots. (each row wants 236.25 ingots)

#screenshots message

[wind spade]

usually the solution I suggest is "don't load balance belts, instead make sure each belt has the amount it needs to feed the next manifold"

[unique cypress]

I'd use a belt balancer

[wind spade]

they said they did use it tho?

[crimson plover]

Yeah do you have smart splitters unlocked cause they're gonna be really helpful

[outer drift]

the 4 belts are balanced cuz i had a 4x4 balancer blueprint on hand

i do have smart splitters

[wind spade]

(or the other way around - make sure the manifold needs the amount you have on the belt)

[unique cypress]

a 4:7, not a 4:4

[outer drift]

got a blueprint on hand? ❤️

[unique cypress]

you have 7 floors, no?

[outer drift]

correct. I just dont have a blueprint for 7 balancers.
I hate working out the logic for balancers so i generally just download a blueprint if i can lmao

[unique cypress]

I don't, but I guess I could

as long as you're fine with clipping

[outer drift]

yeah i dont mind

[crimson plover]

Personally I wouldn't bother with a load balancer and just use smart splitters to overflow to the next row then the next floor until everything gets the items it need

[outer drift]

yeah, see, i was gonna do that, but the math makes that a pain in the ass. like it's not that it's impossible, it's just that each belt line can feed 3.492063 manifolds

not quite 3.5

makes the overflow logic quite challenging

[unique cypress]

that's why I hate overflow setups

a balancer always uses the same logic

and it always works, no matter the numbers

[crimson plover]

I guess that's true

[outer drift]

i dont like balancing per machine, but i like balancing per manifold

[crimson plover]

Overflows are better if you don't mind it being slightly inefficient

[outer drift]

per machine is way too intensive for me

[unique cypress]

it's pointless too

[crimson plover]

But if you absolutely need it to be exact balancers are the way to go

[unborn dome]

Only time I'm planning on balancing per machine is nuclear fuel rods and waste, to prevent excess radiation from stacks piling up

[wind spade]

that's why you instead match the inputs and outputs, before you build arbitrary number of inputs and outputs and then wonder how to connect it 😉

[outer drift]

i wanted it to be preeeeettyyyyyyyy

[wind spade]

you can do that as well

[outer drift]

nuh-uh

[wind spade]

?

[outer drift]

im just being childish lmao

[minor orchid]

Rough layout of the mega factory, will 100% end up multi-floor, going up in complexity, maybe even ill make it so the train stations are under factory floors, could look cool af

[wind spade]

rules forbid sharing BP files

[unique cypress]

last I checked, they only mention save files

[mossy ibex]

wait, I didn't know the rule about save files, why is that a rule?

[wind spade]

Sharing save files or blueprints in this discord is NOT allowed as we cannot verify the links. Do not post them here.

[wind spade]

downloading unverifiable files from the internet is always bad

[outer drift]

not if you're a super 1337 h4x0r like me

i have windows anti virus

[winter iris]

would you be doing something like this where the red is overflow and it just merges with the next conveyor when it doesn't have enough to feed the next floor

[minor orchid]

wdyt?

[outer drift]

i was in the middle of trying to figure out what to do when a kind soul gave me a balancer that solved my problem for me lol

[winter iris]

hell yeah nice

[crimson moat]

We might finally get a fix for the manifold fluid flow issues soon

eternalUnity found a calculation error which results in two of the four connection points of a junction being calculated at the wrong height. In two of the four orientations this means that side connections are calculated as being above the junction, which often prevents flow from exiting them, stalling everything up and downstream.

In scenarios where they should have 99% of full flow they actually drop completely to zero flow for the tick because of the height calculation error.

I'm basically certain that this is a mistake.

I'm also basically certain that junctions are intended to act the same no matter which way they are rotated, as the connection points themselves don't graphically move and there is no direct indication of orientation (like Signs have an arrow pointing "up" - junctions do not!)

[mossy ibex]

yeah but as they noted, now it's a legacy issue in which a lot of setups rely on that buggy behavior

I'm pretty surprised about it actually, ike CSS is so good in so many ways, but they let weird shit like that sneak through unfixed

the whole pipe system vibes like an intern cowboy coded it in a few days as a prototype and they just never revisited

[crimson moat]

I don't think that anything really relies on this behavior. Technically it might break something odd, but like 99 times out of 100 stuff is just not working which is supposed to work because of this incorrect calculation.

It's the biggest bug and pain point of the entire game.

[mossy ibex]

vip junctions would stop working I think

[crimson moat]

Junctions, especially pipe systems with multiple junctions or junctions in certain orientations, don't work now. Manifolds being the most obviously broken case.

is it honestly worth it to break something absolutely critical like a junction or a manifold in order to make a VIP junction work without having a "VIP junction" part

[mossy ibex]

I mean, I'm on team "fix this shit" for sure, but I'm saying we should temper expecations

[crimson moat]

almost nobody used/uses those, those who did basically understood it was functioning on some voodoo magic bug, and now we finally know what that bug IS and that it's the same bug that's breaking 90% of the other pipe stuff. The most common issue report from new players, the most common thing argued about in the community.

[mossy ibex]

you may have seen me in the past few days wishing they would just throw out the current implementation and just simplify it a lot

[crimson moat]

I think that what they have is quite simple and works very well honestly. It just doesn't work when a junction calculates itself as having three top exits. There are basically no pipe problems that can't be traced back to this foundational error, and it completely explains why all of the good pipe building practices work around the error.

[unique cypress]

the reddit post by eternal union only mentioned vertical junctions iirc. are horizontal junctions weird too?

(i.e. not actually horizontal?)

[crimson moat]

Yeah, they flow as if they have vertical exits ABOVE the junction, i.e. the junction must be at 100% capacity for any flow to happen. If it's at 99.9%, the water doesn't "reach" the "top exit" (actually side exit) and doesn't flow at all.

In reality, and within the model expectations, a 90% full junction with 600 pipes should be able to flow around 540 out of the side exit.

[mossy ibex]

the main point of that post is that it's fucked horizontally if you don't orient the junction right

[unique cypress]

on a horizontally placed junction, on which all connections should be on the same level, they actually aren't?

[unborn dome]

I'd guess the junction thing is also the reason my pipe manifolds also have weird fill issues that require me to put a pump right before the manifold, just to ensure the junctions are always full.

[crimson moat]

Yes

[unique cypress]

so maybe that's why my recently made AC BPs don't work like they should, but my old BPs work fine

the fucking junctions are probably rotated 90*

[crimson moat]

yeah exactly

it's a very simple/small but severe bug which kind of breaks everything unless you do far more complicated workarounds to a problem that you almost certainly don't know exists or fully understand

[crimson moat]

Yeah, pump should not help but it does. Sometimes it's completely required and won't flow at all without one, despite headlift being 50m above the pipe system.

[unborn dome]

Yup lol, it feels wrong to have to use one when the headlift gauge says something like 1.6M but it instantly fixes the problem for me every time it happens.

Because my refinery and blender manifold BPs all feed pipes down into the inputs from vertical junctions

[crimson moat]

There's another bug if you have multiple valves in series, but it's not nearly as severe. To work around that one you need to go valve pump instead of valve valve.

[unique cypress]

nope I still do not fucking get it

the junctions are in the same orientation

but in my old design, the machines fill one by one

and in my new AC design, for some reason, the last machine fills before the second one from the end does

[crimson moat]

AC?

[unique cypress]

auto-connect

actually, how old is this bug?

[crimson moat]

possibly junction-old

[unique cypress]

I have no clue then

cause I'm 100% sure I placed junctions in the exact same way at least since U6

and despite being in the same location, same orientation, just auto-connected, the refineries work differently than they used to

[crimson moat]

You can't make a junction to junction connection with auto connect, you've got extra pipes in there. That changes the sim.

[unique cypress]

well, yeah, but the main difference is that now the last machine fills before the second-to-last one

and the BP places groups of 4

so the last 3 are connected with 1 pipe junction to junction

[crimson moat]

very likely down to weirdness with the pipe length still

try deleting pipes between bp's and replacing

having an autoconnecting pipe between junctions is a really bad idea, especially if the other between-junction connections at the other sides aren't identical and level. It's too easy to change the flow priorities.

i have not had any issues using them to run pipes, like pipe to pipe, but they do affect the flow in small ways (not neccesarily bad, just different)

[silent shoal]

My first big project.
I need a lot of water and non-standard numbers...
Is there an easy way to do this or just adjust the amount with an underclock for Water Extractor

[wind spade]

usually underclocking is a good way to do stuff like this

[unique cypress]

ignore machine uptime

[fast jewel]

valve

[wind spade]

no, don't use valves

[unique cypress]

replaced the ACed pipes with a single pipe and it's now different than it used to be. now the second and third from the end are both the non-full ones

[silent shoal]

This means I need to add more Water Extractor than I thought 🙁

[wind spade]

well, you can also overclock

[unique cypress]

that's exactly why I never underclock to match ratios

I just build whatever the calculator says, rounded up

[wind spade]

that is still building more

[unique cypress]

36 is not more machines than 35.8

[silent shoal]

The calculation I did is with 250% in all...
And multiplying them creates strange numbers...
I didn't know about this until now...
Luckily I haven't connected pipes yet

[silent shoal]

And you just leave it like that?

[unique cypress]

yes

underclocking only gives a very minor power efficiency bonus

it's a waste of time imo

[silent shoal]

My ADHD won't allow it.

[wind spade]

if they have problem with building 36 and underclocking, they have same problem with building 36 and not underclocking

[unique cypress]

if you underclock to match rations, you can end up with more than the minimum

[crimson moat]

Don't connect all of the water together. You need 3011 water? Send six or more 600 pipes, and plug them into what they can feed.

429? One pipe for that.

1500? Three for that.

And so on.

You can technically pool more water per min together with a more complex pipe network, but it is very easy to do that wrong in a way that breaks things due to mistakes or poorly understood bugs in the game.

[wind spade]

depends how you build 🤷

[unborn dome]

How do people typically do the sulfuric acid for nuclear fuel? Build the plant near a sulfur node? Ship the raw sulfur? Ship the liquid?

Guessing not the former, since building the nuclear fuel plant near a nitrogen node seems to make a lot more sense

[unique cypress]

depends

[silent shoal]

I just created groups of Water Extractor...
Each group will deliver exactly the right amount of lift to the right place, right?

[unique cypress]

I usually ship everything because building the reactors over water makes most sense

but ig you can build the reactors and rod production in different places

[unborn dome]

I'm planning on shipping the fuel to the reactors themselves by drone and bring the waste back, so that part isn't a concern. It's mainly just getting the nitric and sulfuric in the same place and the map (I assume intentionally) makes this difficult.

The abyss cliffs south of the swamp have sulfur/nitrogen/iron ore, but no water. Other places that have sulfur and water have no nitrogen, etc

[unique cypress]

iirc the swamp and titan forest have (almost?) everything you need for a nuke plant

bottom of the waterfall for the reactors, top for the rod production

[unborn dome]

The swamp and titan forest have neither sulfur nor nitrogen in them, aside from an impure sulfur that might be in the dune desert, unsure where the border is.

[unique cypress]

there's a sulfur node in there for sure, and nitrogen is just south

[crimson moat]

You can't push 3011 water through less than 6 pipes due to pipe bottleneck.

That being the case, you need 6 pipes going from water to destination anyway, and if you ever connect them then you should do it as late as possible. There's no benefit to connecting 6 pipes into a pool of 3600 water and then splitting that back out into 6x600 to move it a kilometer afterwards, but there are likely harms.

[unique cypress]

and youv'e got 900 uranium relatively nearby

[unborn dome]

Abyss cliffs would be amazing aside from no water...

So I'm thinking maybe build the fuel in the abyss cliffs (since the nitric acid is self-sustaining once you add some initial water to get it started), but still have to ship in sulfuric acid (or a lot of water) by train from someplace else...

[silent shoal]

I didn't really understand what you meant...
That's what I did, 9 groups each group will provide the exact amount of water to the machines needed...
That's fine I guess...

For example, the single water extractor will provide the "240"

[crimson moat]

You cannot move 14 water extractor's worth of water via 1 pipe due to the pipe flow rate limit.

Merging 14 extractors together does not reduce the number of pipes that you need to move the water from A to B.

[silent shoal]

Each pair of water extractors has one MK2 pipe.
300+300
Or
300+(x<300)

[crimson moat]

Yep that's fine, so each pair will have its own pipe to the destination

[unborn dome]

Turns out this water can have a few extractors in it, and is actually not too far, since the caves go basically directly between there and the nitrogen well

[whole relic]

Does anyone know how I can split 1950 polymer onto mk 4 belts being fed from refineries idk how

[solid locust]

Hi!

I'm racking my brain off how to distribute inputs, so im trying to get output of 25 modular frame I made a blueprint for it which produces 5 modular frame. Each blueprint for it takes 120 iron ingot as input and as I said I needed 25 modular frame so 120 * 5 = 600. I have 2 smelters blueprint which produces 300 iron ingot so the output of the smelter is the same as the input i need for all the machines. Can I just treat it as a manifold? I only have mk 4 conveyor belt and have not unlocked smartsplitting yet soo idk.

I've been trying to balance the input for each blueprint but can't seem to get it right

[vapid gorge]

manifolds work everywhere, so yes
but also you could clock groups of smelters to output 120 total to feed these groups

clocking is the most powerful logistics tool you have. dont forget about it

[solid locust]

fair, I've invested in the layout quite a bit and the space is just correct for my current setup that is why I was contemplating on separating each smelter output to 120

[vapid gorge]

generally clocking machines into the groups you need for the next step, and so on, will be the most convenient answer for you 🙂

[solid locust]

aight will do just that, thanks

[icy pagoda]

Hey guys im on vacation but i watched a video from i am kibitz and saw him saying about pipes and how they work i dont know how they really work so can anyone explain. I dont understand the limits of them and that stuff

[vapid gorge]

that's not a short question.

they have headlift
so you need pumps to raise them

they are bidirectional so you can have back flow if you pipe things wrong

liquids prefer to flow down due to gravity

unless you have a specific question?

[hoary oar]

probably referring to priority junction shenanigans, which would take quite a while to explain.
its better if you just read this tho, instead of having someone else paraphrase it in here
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf?2090cd

[brisk smelt]

pipes transfer fluids. that's all they do

[sage belfry]

Any suggestions on how load-balancing a many input lines would be made non-lethal with ratios like this? Tried tweaking the clock, the numbers are integers at multiples of 3 but there's no way to get an even input on screws that doesn't make it a nightmare

Do I just do a line of 3, and underclock the last one to take the leftover screws? rather than trying to merge in another line a keep the manifold going, which would start getting wild with smart splitters i would think

[vapid gorge]

well we would need the number of parts per min, the number of belts you're using and the number of machines you're tryuing t ofeed

none of this is helpful

for the screws the easiest thing to do would be direct feed from 1 constructor with steel screws

or do you just mean the difference in clocking? if so , clock them to the same rate

[knotty hornet]

You can type formulas into that clock text field too.

Are you just trying to consume a full mk4 belt of screws?

[sage belfry]

i have already sitting waiting to be run in:
21,600 screws/min on 18x1200 belts
2400 copper sheets/min (maybe a little extra) on 2x1200 belts

wanting to produce at least:
1190 rotors/min

[vapid gorge]

ok? that still doesn't change the fact that you probably just want to evenly distribute the clocking

[sage belfry]

i literally just gave you the numbers you asked for lol

[knotty hornet]

Exactly how many machines making these rotors?

[vapid gorge]

ok but it seemed like the real issue was the difference in clocking?

[sage belfry]

well that depends on the clock speed doesn't it? i'm trying to ask if adjusting the speed for the machines or a subset of them makes balacing the input lines easier

if it doesn't, then i won't do that

[knotty hornet]

No, they should be evenly clocked as much as possible

[vapid gorge]

generally spreading the clocking evenly will make it easier to load balance, yes

how many machines total do you want to use to produce the rotors?

[sage belfry]

should my answer not be as few as possible?

[knotty hornet]

Doesn't really matter if you have weird decimal rates either. As long as the belt into the machine is faster than that, it'll work

[vapid gorge]

no, with load balancing it should reflect how yo uwant to load balance.

often whatever makes it convenient.

so just in general, how many machines do you need at 100% to do this? and we can go from there

[sage belfry]

i don't know the answer to that then

[sage belfry]

checking

[vapid gorge]

once we know that we can play with numbers better

[knotty hornet]

So without overcloking, that require 106 machines

[sage belfry]

yes, that

[crimson moat]

you've already made the mistake since you built and merged the screws into lines of 1200/min.

You "should" make a group of constructors which takes X resource and outputs 487.5 screws per min onto a belt, then plug that belt in.

You can do that with a few machines right next to that particular assembler so that the belt is only a few meters long, too.

Pre-merging and then re-splitting all of the resources is a poor and difficult approach. It saves a tiny bit of trouble in one area but creates a lot more, especially when dealing with awkward ratios or items or production lines which can fill a belt.

[knotty hornet]

This is generally true of wire and screws

[vapid gorge]

ok 106 machines
as you've already made the belts we can probably try starting off with 9 belts of screws and 1 belt of sheets for 2 distinct groups right?

so lets say 53 machines in each group

That's a minimum of 21.2 machines at 250% clocking

so you could do something like 27 machines in each group, evenly clocked

that way each belt of screws feeds 3 machines

and you only need to split the sheets in three belts 3x

that might be the simplest layout?

working with what you already have

and to figure out the clocking, 53 machiens is 5300% clockign total

so 5300/27 = X%

[sage belfry]

what math did you do to jump to 27

[vapid gorge]

oh I just used a multiple of 9 that was greater than 21.2

[sage belfry]

oh i see

[vapid gorge]

because 21.2 is the minimum I know anything more is possible

[vapid gorge]

breaking things down into more manageble groups is probably your best bet in load balancing.

but I highly recommend if you want to keep LBing you plan multiple steps teogether in advanc

it'll make your life 1 trillion % easier

[sage belfry]

i am not good at doing this. at all. and what i've been doing at this factory is the opposite, mass producing all the ingots i'm going to need for the entire layout, and beling them to the modules that need them, and so on. until now, balancing has actually been exceedingly easy, adjusting clock rates to make the I/O line up with good numbers has been fine for every item until this one. but hindsight is blah blah and all that.

[vapid gorge]

low tier load balancing can be pretty simple yea, but if youre plan is to do many steps of loadbalancing all together? it'll get more and more complicated

for example , if you wanted to do a chain of processes from raw material to super computers? that would be a time and you'd definitely want to plan al lteh groups together

[sage belfry]

so why is evenly spreading the clock rate better than having a 250%,250%,120%

[vapid gorge]

because it's much simpler to load balance a system where every consumer uses the same amount

unless you happen to get some very convienient numbers falling into your lap it can quickly become a giant mess splitting off 43.567 parts per min from a group

so things that make it easier

1. evenly consuming machines
2. fed in multiples of 2 and 3 (as it's easy to split belts into 2s and 3s)

there are layouts available to do 1 to 5 for example too, and if you like the look of belts feeding back on each other and all that , yeah go for it. But it does get more complex

[sage belfry]

interesting. i would think having the last consumer just taking in whatever the first X don't consume to be just as easy, no? where the first X are at the same clock until there's a split where there's just not enough to feed a full X. but idk anything so i defer

[vapid gorge]

that turns it into a manifold then

[sage belfry]

right

[vapid gorge]

which is also fine.
like as long as you have enough throughput, the system will work
but if you're not evenly feeding things it'll be a manifold (overflow manifold) , instead of a load balancer

[sage belfry]

i'm sure i'll butcher the construction one way or another

[vapid gorge]

nah you'll be fine. This is a really easy one

9 belts ,each split to three machine

1 belt of sheets split into 3, 3 and 3 again

almost the simplest load balancing you can do really.

[sage belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-dunce-gif-10694047

[vapid gorge]

just takes practice 🙂

next time you want to do a load balancing system, make a whole plan in satisfactory tools and ask. You can make it really simple if you plan the whole thing out 🙂

[sage belfry]

I made the tools plan, https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=EPOXEPkOVojaC07uxWEZ. and then made a draw.io page to smooth it out and make the arrows better. But I didn’t do the apparently necessary next step of partitioning each item into separate end to end sequences

[vapid gorge]

was there a reason you wanted so many spare cables and sheets and things?

[knotty hornet]

Also minimizes power usage to have the clocks as even as possible.

In addition to everything cobalt said

[sage belfry]

i got fed up running out of depot items when building hefty blueprints and want the rates to be high enough that even if it does happen I don't have to wait for it to be capped again

[vapid gorge]

I would then break up all those depot production lines into seperate systems

make your life easier

and probably break up the main output items like motors and automated wiring into their own factories too

this makes life easier even if you're not load balancing

[sage belfry]

i see

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[vapid gorge]

you don't have to split it up, but it will make life a lot easier. It really just depends on your goals 🙂

[sage belfry]

my goals == big number, automate (mostly) everything

[vapid gorge]

then just break it up into more manageble sections. Still big numbers 🙂

[fallow siren]

save yourself some pain by separating big section into each own factory

especially when you're building a huge factory, for example like nuclear plant

[visual yarrow]

why did I overbuild automated portable miners

i've probably produced more than i'll ever use in the time it's taken to question my decision

[silent shoal]

I need 1476.68 oil, how would you transport it? In 3 pipes MK2 or rail?

[vapid gorge]

the terrain there is pretty bad for rail

[fallow siren]

my rule of thumb is to just do belt/pipe highway if the length is under 1km

more than that use train/drones

[wind spade]

Process at oil

[vapid gorge]

in this example for aluminium waste water, fresh water is coming down the blue line, and the waste water is coming in in red @gritty hazel

do the same thing with the dark matter residue

[silent shoal]

It would be pretty big and I don't want it there...

[vapid gorge]

over clock everything a ton to compress it

[silent shoal]

Of course...
I'm going to OC everything I can...
I have quite a list

[wind spade]

generally I'd recommend to build spread out factories rather than centralised ones 🤷
but it's your save

[gritty hazel]

But I have a situation that is circular, if one fails the other fails so I wanted to put a dark matter generator in case the other failed, that only the gas passes in the case that the other fails

[wind spade]

if it's circular, you only have to feed it from the start

but tbh I wouldn't trust SCIM with loops and byproducts

[vapid gorge]

doesn't matter.
Math out the fresh residue and the waste residue
clock the machines that need to use them seperately

[wind spade]

there doesn't seem to be any fresh

[vapid gorge]

and don't use SCIM tools '

[wind spade]

(again, if SCIM didn't mess it up)

[gritty hazel]

What is SCIM tools?

[silent shoal]

I agree with you...
I need these items now but I am making an excessive amount for a future project...
For example 44.8 Fused Modular Frame out of 50 are intended for use in nuclear power generation

It's a bit of a problem because of the size of their stack, I don't know how I'll move it to the other side of the map but I guess drones or a train will handle it... at least I hope so

[vapid gorge]

try sticking it in this planner, SCIM has awful layouts https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[wind spade]

SCIM is what you're using
Tools is the planner linked above

[gritty hazel]

What?

[vapid gorge]

you need to manually input the waste you're making

both the uranium and plutonium amounts

you can probably grab those numbers from the old plan

[random cloud]

my gpu is gtx 3060 and its overheating every time that i play. Vsync is off. anyone?

[visual yarrow]

up heat sink/cooling system production?

sorry I cannot offer any actual advice, only stupid jokes

[wind spade]

why is vsync off?

enabling vsync will probably reduce the stress on GPU

[still blade]

so im working on a spreadsheet rn for modular frames, and i know that everyone suggests running from a target ppm back to resources, but im in the early game and would prefer to just make as many as my resources would allow.

how do i calculate the amount of rods and plates i can make from my supply, if the division isn't 50/50? i want it to be self updating, so that i can input the amount of iron and the split will update too

[vapid gorge]

Use a planner online like sftools

[still blade]

how do i translate it to a spreasheet though?

[vapid gorge]

Type in the results?

[still blade]

like whats the math for the split

[wind spade]

Even early I'd suggest making what you need, not what you can

[wind spade]

Manifold

[still blade]

i mean the split between how much iron i need for plates vs rods

[wind spade]

Decide how much you want of both

Depends which buildables you build and how often

[unique cypress]

Run the math for 1 frame, then scale that up to match the ore input

[brisk smelt]

vsync by default should be off unless you have screen tearing

[wind spade]

Then you render 800fps and burn gpu 🙂

[brisk smelt]

your gpu is meant to be used

[unique cypress]

what's the point of the GPU rendering frames you can't see

[brisk smelt]

there is a difference

vsync adds input lag for no reason

if youre worried about thermal output in a hot room lower the wattage of the gpu, dont limit the frames

or something..

[spiral hornet]

is there a difference in power consumption using power shards? So if i place down 2 machines without power shards and 1 machine with 2 would it be the same in every way?

[vapid gorge]

yes you pay more power per item if you over clock

but if you fully over clock a whole system, the overall power increase is only 33%

that's everything at 250% clocking

[spiral hornet]

so if i want to refine 600 crude oil to make fuel. I can make it with 10 machine non overclocked and 5 machine overclocked and would reach the same result

[vapid gorge]

it's not that straight forward and it depends how much you're clocking things

[spiral hornet]

every refinery 200%

2 power shards

[vapid gorge]

oh result you mean itme output.

yes

200% clocking means it consumes 200% items and outputs 200% items

honestly power is so easy to come by you're really only limited by shards early on

the extra power cost is trivial

[spiral hornet]

half my factory is shut down right now because i dont have enough power

[vapid gorge]

it sounds like you're fairly early on

find 3-4 coal nodes next to water
turn it all into power

48-64 coal gens is pretty normal before doing a big fuel power station

[spiral hornet]

i have 16 but with this fuel power plant i can make 3000MW so i wont bother with coal anymore

[vapid gorge]

eh, I put off fuel until I can do diluted fuel

you'll want more like 7,000 to keep you going.

3,000 won't get you far.

[unique cypress]

power consumption increases exponentially with clock speed (there's a formula on the wiki if you want details). in particular, a machine at 200% consumes 2.5 times more power than a machine at 100%, but makes items 2x faster, so the cost per item is only 25% more

[spiral hornet]

I redid the math and its producing 6k MW power and using 500 for refining. 5.5k MW is a considerable upgrade from my current 1.2k lol

sinking polymer resin into the awesome sink kinda feels like cheating tho

[fallow siren]

why do you think its cheating

its a whole reason why awesome sink exist

[unique cypress]

FYI, "k MW" is not a correct way of writing "1000 MW". Either stick with "1000 MW" or use GW (1 GW = 1000 MW)

[spiral hornet]

coming from factorio where you had to deal with biproducts and couldnt just sink it

[spiral hornet]

i like your words magic man

[vapid gorge]

when you have multiple products on an infinite and continuous production line the only solution is Sink or Infinite storage. Infinite storage is not possible

[unique cypress]

Unless you're playing space age and can recycle anything into nothing

Or are on Vulcanus or in space and can just trash anything

[unique cypress]

Infinite storage is absolutely possible to implement

[bright turret]

Hi y'all, new player with a question here. If I have a miner sitting on a node of Pure ore outputing 120 a minute, but I only have the mk.1 belts that transport 60 per min, is there any way to get the full output? I thought about splitting it between 2 belts but I wouldnt the splitter slow it down?

[vapid gorge]

for most of the game your mining output will be belt limited

until you're at the end of hte tech tier

[bright turret]

Ok thank you, sorry for the stupid question, trying to be more efficient this time around xD

[unique cypress]

Every machine is limited by the belt you connect to it. If your fastest belt is 60/min, then that's the most you can get in/out of any machine, splitter or merger

[silent shoal]

Is there a way to update satisfactorytools when using OC so that I get the relevant number of machines?

[unique cypress]

No, tools only gives the number for 100% speed

[vapid gorge]

the clocking is already showing you

if it says 15.6 machines that's 1560% clockign spread however you like

[minor orchid]

i need 1100 oil into:
260 packaged turbofuel
1080 plastic
1085 rubber
765 petroleum cok
125 fuel
and then i need to ship it out to the main building and petroleum cok to aluminium plant

and i need to ship in 130 sulfur

holy moly

[vapid gorge]

Fresh water is blue , waste is red

it's simple, just needs clocking, and is foolproof. As much as pipes can be anyway

plus it works with the nuclear chain waste products as well as the dark matter residue later on

[pale heron]

I have no idea what any of these are but isolating systems definitely makes it simpler regardless. Personally I'll probably never combine products just because I like using the proper ISO colors on my pipes and feed water would not be color the same as the exhaust water (until it's cooled back down.)

[vapid gorge]

bottom refineries are solution producers. Top are scrap producers

waste and fresh never connect

it's just a normal system, w/o them merging

[pale heron]

I don't even have oil yet I just overengineered my coal water
I will have to experiment with these when I get to them
But I agree it's rational to just keep them separate even if it's not aesthetic

[vapid gorge]

I mean the only difference aesthetically is having a pipe and maybe a pump in that gap

a pump would do a better job than a valve

you can also look up VIP junctions but they are finicky and sometimes just don't work after being built

they also work off black magic

but are probably the most reliable direct feed option you have, because if they do work at the start they'll keep working

but they aren't an intended behaviour so you never know if any little change to pipes will kill all your VIPs some day

[minor orchid]

looks somewhat easy

[pale heron]

VIPs do look a bit evil, maybe even villainous.

[vapid gorge]

eh, I don't like them because they can jsut not work sometimes and I don't want even a small chance a pipe update could kill everything

it probably won't happen. But still.

anyway, the split method is really useful, just clock it as needed 🙂 g'night!

[brisk smelt]

petro coke going to aluminum?

[minor orchid]

yeah

and fuel for fmf

[silent shoal]

I need help💀
I have 60 refineries at 250% on the Pure Iron Ingot recipe.

Each machine consumes 50 water per minute.
Total 3000

And there are 2 more refineries with an output of 16.855.
Each consumes 5.186 water per minute

And according to the consumption shown, it comes out to 3,010.372 total and this is less than what is listed in my tools, apparently it comes out from rounding numbers etc... How can you be sure that it will be accurate?

[hoary oar]

the super easy soloution, if you have even just a tiny bit of iron ore spare at your location, is to just overproduce some ingots and sink them. this way you can get nice whole numbers.
if you don't want to do that tho, or can't. and you want perfect 100% efficiency, there isnt much else you can do other than calculating it manually and double and triple checking everything.
if you don't trust any number along your production chain to be 100% accurate you're gonna have to start with the end product and work your way back.

[unique cypress]

Put it in modeler, it'll give you the exact number (as a fraction)

I would just round up and not care

Or hover over the node in tools, it'll give you more decimal places

Remember that in-game clock speed only has 4 decimal places and any number that doesn't fit within those 4 won't be perfectly accurate anyway

[brisk smelt]

just overfill everything it'll balance out

generally you actually do want to oversupply water as well

[hoary oar]

the real soloution tho, to be honest. is to design factories better.
even if you end up building all of it in the same location, try splitting each line up, adjust the numbers to that they are whole numbers wherever possible, and if that means making 15 motors instead of the 14.666 that you actually need, then so be it.

[brisk smelt]

there's nothing wrong with this factory design

the end products are even

[hoary oar]

but if you split it up in to smaller stages, you could overproduce a tiny amount here or there, send it in to a sink or depot and not have to deal with the headache of needing the 4 digits after the dot to be exactly perfect.

[crimson helm]

would this work to balance pipes?

[brisk smelt]

yeah so you just do max 1200 out of nodes and round up everything

the math will work out

you just need to oversupply the first node

[unique cypress]

We need r/factoriohno but for satisfactory

[wind spade]

the "5.186" are actually "5.18616"

but if you want to consume 5268.15 ore, you need 60@250% + 1@51.8572 (or 2@25.9286%), not sure how you got the "25.9308%"

[wind spade]

not sure, probably not, but you shouldn't balance pipes anyway, just connect each pipe to what it can feed

[crimson helm]

ok thanks

[brisk smelt]

satisfactory pipes are notoriously weird

just simplify it

[unique cypress]

I genuinely do not understand why some of y'all are so obsessed with integers. Just round up and either underclock appropriately or let the machines throttle themselves. So what if I'm making 12+2431/4019 of an item? If that's what I need, how is 13 better?

[hoary oar]

i like the peace of mind of having all my machines working at a perfect 100%, so no self throttling
but yeah, save yourself the headache of needing to deal with integers wherever possible by eliminating them in the design process

[silent shoal]

As a function of what?

[unique cypress]

Fraction, not function

FactorioLab can also show fractions

Regardless of how complicated a factory is, every number can be represented exactly

It just might be something dumb like 32 + 4189/16709

Tools will show 32.251, because it rounds machine counts to 3 decimal places

But the exact fraction can be calculated, and then you can get any number of decimal places you want

For example 32.25070321383

[wind spade]

tools give you "exact" number on hover

(exact = rounded up for purposes of clocking)

[silent shoal]

Is this the correct way to calculate?
Each refinery at 250% consumes 87.5
multiple 60
that's 5250

which leaves us with 5268.15-5250=18.15

and dividing by 2 refineries gives 9.075

Now how can I calculate the amount of water accordingly?
If in tools there is a rounded value

[wind spade]

in Tools should be relatively accurate value 🤔

[silent shoal]

the 3010.38 isaccurate?

[unique cypress]

The "round up and let shit idle" method doesn't care about decimals lol

[silent shoal]

I do lol😅 🥲

[wind spade]

I mean the "150 at 100% + 1 at 51.9001%". Worst case it's off by 0.0001%

all the other values are calculated from clock speed and rounded to 3 decimals

[unique cypress]

Either way, machines in game only have 4 digits in their clock speed fields. Unless your clock speed value has all 0s starting from the 5th decimal place, your machines will idle for 5 seconds every few hundred hours

[wind spade]

why 5 seconds? 🤔

[unique cypress]

The numbers from Tools should be accurate enough that the few hundred will at worst become few dozen

[unique cypress]

Machines always idle for at least 5 seconds. Even if they receive the items they need 0.1 seconds after they start idling, they'll still idle for 5

[silent shoal]

So according to this, the OC of the last pair of refineries should be 25.5005% and not 25.9286%...

[unique cypress]

51.9/2=25.95

Just use FactorioLab or Modeler if you want the exact value GDI

[silent shoal]

sorry you are right

[wind spade]

afaik each machine has (or had) that number different

[unique cypress]

Tbf I only tested it with 2 different recipes, most likely in the same machine

[wind spade]

in Docs the delay number is listed at each machine, and last I checked (pre 1.0), it was different for some machines

would have to check when I'm at my pc

[unique cypress]

Didn't think it could differ by machine, only thought it could be a set fraction of cycle time

But when 2 different recipes gave me 5s, I assumed it's gonna be the same for all

[silent shoal]

this?
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

Steam

Satisfactory Modeler

Model your Satisfactory builds. Set up your machines however you like, adding optional limits to the number of any of those machines and the tool will calculate how the parts will flow and how many of each machine type are getting used.

This does advanced calculations that no other Satisfactory planning tool can do, including figuring out how s…

▶ Play video

[unique cypress]

Yes, or https://factoriolab.github.io/sfy/

[silent shoal]

I couldn't really figure out how to use it.

[unique cypress]

It's not that different from tools

To get fractions, you just need to go into column settings

But Modeler works just as well for this purpose so w/e

In modeler, to get the fraction, hover over the number

[silent shoal]

So now for example can I put this value into a water extractor? (10 121/325) (if there are another 10 by 250%...)
or
1202.5(3371/97500) which is actually 10+(121/325)

Wow, that's really disgusting.

If I enter the values ​​into the game as an equation, won't I have efficiency problems?

Is there a way to copy what I have in tools to Modeler?
Or just do everything manually?

[unique cypress]

You can input equations into the clock speed and output fields

As long as you input correct ones, the clock speed will be as accurate as it can be

[unique cypress]

I'm sure it's possible to write a parser that could translate an sft file into an sfmd file, but I haven't heard of one existing

So yes, you have to transfer it manually

But you only need to transfer the recipes and the output, modeler can calculate things from there

[still blade]

what's the best crystal oscillator recipe? because i got the insulated recipe in the mam as an option, the one that takes rubber and AI limiters and idk if i should take it

[unique cypress]

I like the alt, but I wouldn't consider either recipe to be "best"

Whichever one works better in your factory is the better one

[still blade]

fair enough.

should i also use the electrode circuit board recipe? it seems to be made from purely oil so it might be easier to make than default

[silent shoal]

How do I determine the quantity I want?
I would like it to do the calculation backwards...

[unique cypress]

I find it useless, because whatever you use the boards for cannot be made from just oil. It's expensive too. So whatever you use for that something else can be used for the boards too

[unique cypress]

The bottom text fields are limits, not targets. If you leave it empty, it means it's uncapped. You only really need one of the fields filled, and that sets the limit for everything else

[minor orchid]

@thick heart granted this is 4 end game items, but i think you can see just how complex it can get (each box is an item to produce)
but yeah its fun af

hope you have fun too!

[thick heart]

Looks like one hell of a learning experience hahahaha

I'm excited :) Thanks for sharing

[wet scarab]

How come I never heard of this website before????

Literally a game changer for me who always builds for 100% efficiency

[brisk urchin]

there are many websites and tools like this one

[wet scarab]

Well before this one I couldn't find any online (or that didn't require to manually use Python 🤮 )

[unique cypress]

Because it's practically useless?

[unique cypress]

You can achieve 100% uptime just fine with manifolds

[wet scarab]

Don't think I remember asking don't I ?
Let people play however they want

[silent shoal]

💀 💀 💀 link?

[wet scarab]

https://icemoonmagic.github.io/Satisfactory-Splitter-Calculator/

[wind spade]

because it's pointless 😄

(and 100% efficiency is not at all related to balancers)

[unique cypress]

not that the monstrosities this site spits out even are balancers

[wind spade]

they are ratio balancers

[unique cypress]

if not every input is connected to every output, it's not a balancer

[inner gulch]

if the source is constant, I usually use slower belts with smart splitters to get the wanted item rate.

[wind spade]

"ratio balancer" is a contraption that outputs materials in certain ratio

[deft lichen]

If only there was a trivially simple solution like clocking machines to output 142.5 and 90

[unique cypress]

calling something that isn't even close to an actual balancer a "balancer" makes it way more confusing than it needs to be

[wind spade]

same as a "bus" has nothing to do with a transport bus

[unique cypress]

it has a bit to do with a data bus

[wind spade]

... which has nothing to do with a transport bus 🤷

see how one word changes meaning? 🙂

even though the other stays same

[knotty hornet]

I think a key fact here is that "balance" alone doesn't imply that both ends are equal. A beam can still "balance" with uneven "weights" if the fulcrum is off-center.

So in a sense, ratio splitters are balancing, just for an off-center "fulcrum"

[unique cypress]

except you'd never confuse a data bus with a transport bus

[wind spade]

except people here literally do 😄

[unique cypress]

the point of a balancer isn't always to get equal outputs

or a specific ratio

it's to have overflow to/from any belt

just because you got equal outputs doesn't mean it's a balancer

[knotty hornet]

I feel you

[unique cypress]

it'd be a ratio balancer if you made a balancer with each output having different priorities

[silent shoal]

@unique cypress how do i save the Modeler plan?

[unique cypress]

but that calculator never makes those

[unique cypress]

options in the top right -> export

[unique cypress]

because it does the bare minimum to get the outputs you want

[unique cypress]

it saves automatically when you exit too

[silent shoal]

Thanks
And one more thing...
Why don't I have any values ​​at all?
I tried manually entering the Ores values ​​and still nothing

[unique cypress]

you have values. they're all 0

it's usually because of oil processing

you didn't allow it to have excess resin/HOR, and the only way to make this plan work is to make 0 of everything

you may need to add a sink

or a priority merger/splitter somewhere

[silent shoal]

What is HOR?

[unique cypress]

heavy oil residue

[silent shoal]

you are right, values ​​disappear when I connect them.
What to do in such a situation

[unique cypress]

i'd try an overflow to sink for resin first

[silent shoal]

I tried it, it didn't help
Now I've completely removed oil and still no values

[nova vortex]

i have a power question

[unique cypress]

I'm surprised this even showed anything with the plastic/rubber recycling set up like that

I always use priority splitters/mergers/splurgers when setting that up in modeler

[nova vortex]

i my max cons is 7,290 how much backup power should i have my production is between 6.8 and 7.3 MW

[silent shoal]

What can I do so that the modeler doesn't have this internal conflict?

[unique cypress]

I always set up recycling like that

instead of sinks you connect them to whatever needs the plubber

just like i'd do it in game tbh

top input/output is the higher priority one fyi

[silent shoal]

I did it!🤓
I just removed what makes fuel plastic and rubber from oil I will add it later and not connect it to the main plan (I will do as you did)

[whole relic]

Is this a good computer setup to get me into phase 3? #screenshots message

[unique cypress]

you can use outposts and put the oil processing in there

[minor orchid]

what is this shit

why do you feed yourself

[unique cypress]

the most efficient way to make plastic and rubber

[minor orchid]

where do i even start with this

[hoary oar]

by getting some oil

[unique cypress]

smart splitters and priority mergers help

also, splitting it all into 2 or 3 smaller setups

[minor orchid]

no i have tho hor done already and grouped

[unique cypress]

^ like this

[hoary oar]

but no, to be serious, you either jumpstart a system like this manually, or always build the plastic and rubber refineries in groups, in such a way that half of the output feeds the other one

[minor orchid]

fuck it blenders go floor 2

[wind spade]

Residual rubber kickstarts it

[unique cypress]

prio merge the resiudal rubber and it starts itself

[hoary oar]

personally i don't like having the residual rubber do the jumpstarting, i just tend to keep that entirely seperate

[minor orchid]

18.5 refs for that :grief:

this is gonna be a pipe mess i can feel it

[hoary oar]

these setups can get pretty big
this is using 1800 oil for 4200 rubber and 1200 plastic
and the rubber/plastic refineries are overclocked by a bit to make numbers easier

but if you care about efficiency for oil, its so worth it

also i 100% recommend, especially for this, to keep the pipes as simple as possible
either you up your production a bit to get nice and round numbers, or you play around with the clockspeed on machines so you can group them up in to individual cells

[unique cypress]

nah, a properly set up recycling loop can handle any numbers

[hoary oar]

on my setup for example im grouping the rubber/plastic refineries up in to groups of 10, while overclocking them to 133.333% so they consume 40 fuel each.
then i group 4 blenders making 100 fuel each together and let that feed a set of refineries

[minor orchid]

you think im building that big

im ocing those refs i dont want a field of hundresd of them

[hoary oar]

usually i would do the same, but for once i wanted to actually use some space, and with this kind of design its very easy to do

[wind spade]

We still can't

That's same as typing 133.3333%

Still not a fraction

[heavy gust]

he has a physical addiction to it

[minor orchid]

damn this gonna be tallll

okay how the hell do i do this part

[unique cypress]

i'd split it in 2 halves so I can stay under 1 full belt total of each item

so I can properly use prio splitters/mergers

and then only merge the outputs

[minor orchid]

where to find that?

so thats like what 15gw

oh its the plumbing manual

[unique cypress]

it's pinned here as well

[crimson moat]

he also used it wrong

[cerulean stratus]

isn't the only issue with alu production the water balance?

[unique cypress]

we all know the proper way is to use packaging and a prio merger kekw

[cerulean stratus]

this is exactly what mcgalleon wrote

and he's the one who made the plumbing manual

[unique cypress]

did he? didn't even know

[cerulean stratus]

rn I'm making 720 scrap and hauling it on a tractor to the copper

no idea what I'll end up making it all into, for now it's only some alclad sheets and casing

This playthrough I'm curious on how much I can do with tractors

[cerulean stratus]

I'm thinking on having a bunch of trucks connecting all my factories

From top of the desert, to just below desert where the oil is, to northern forest, to rocky desert

Funny thing is, I'm not even sharing anything rn

Like I have a route that is transporting some motors and smart plating

[paper isle]

Tractors only, no conveyors, no trains, etc.

[cerulean stratus]

And I'm planning on adding hmf later

gold coast is so op I have to limit myself to not use it every time

[cerulean stratus]

for long distance, I'm really not using belts for that much

to be fair, I may have around 20 saves already

What I like about the tractors, is just how much throughput they have

each tractor route is around 3 minutes rtt (I counted), and carries 25 stacks. On a 100 stack item the max throughput is 833

[crimson moat]

how much coal do they need per min for fuel

[cerulean stratus]

oh wait, you're mostly using it to send items on one direction, going back is a different set of items
so the throughput is double that, at 1667 items per minute

and you can use multiple stations and each has 2 belts. It's entirely possible to do more

unidirectionally, 833 items per min

on stack size 100

[cerulean stratus]

not sure, I always felt it was negligible

[cerulean stratus]

looking at the table, fuel consumption is 1 coal every 5.45s

so I guess around 40 coal per route

[crimson moat]

11/min

thinking it might be decent for moving coal at the start of p2

since the payload is the fuel

[unique cypress]

it is better for mobility

[cerulean stratus]

yeah I agree with him

[unique cypress]

not for stability tho

[cerulean stratus]

It feels like it lasts as long, but gives a bigger boost

[mossy ibex]

these rails are curved at different z heights. Is this going to cause me problems?

[unique cypress]

normally, yes, but this much is prolly fine

[cerulean stratus]

you can use both if you want
I have 2 jetpacks normally, 1 for turbo, 1 for liquid

[unique cypress]

you need less than 0.5m of difference

[cerulean stratus]

or you can have 2 for liquid

[crimson moat]

ionized can keep you in the air for longest. It also has 5x the climbing power of LBF (and no, these haven't changed since launch at least)

[mossy ibex]

what happens if they are wrong? crashes?

[unique cypress]

path signals only consider 2 rails crossing if their hitboxes acutally overlap

a locomotive is 6m tall, a rail is 0.5m

[mossy ibex]

so these should be opk since they overlap enough?

[cerulean stratus]

wait, liquid has more speed than normal fuel?

[crimson moat]

normal fuel is complete garbo in jetpack and basically should never be used

[unique cypress]

if the difference between rails is between 0.5 and 6m, path signals will let trains through, but they'll crash

[cerulean stratus]

i thought normal speed was the medium option between biofuel and turbofuel

[crimson moat]

nah it's just bad

[unique cypress]

same with solid bio

both are shit

I only use LBF and ionized tbh

[crimson moat]

technically Fuel has 1 advantage because you can fully automate it, but realistically it's trivial to make unlimited liquid biofuel for the jetpack at the same time that fuel unlocks

solid biofuel also has a use because you can use it to jetpack in t1 if you get a jetpack hog spawn

[unique cypress]

this looks like too much

[mossy ibex]

fuh

[unique cypress]

you need the packaging milestone anyway and that unlocks LBF

[mossy ibex]

ok thanks

[vapid gorge]

in general you want your intersections completely flat

if you end up having issues, flatten them

[cerulean stratus]

Eh, I think you can definitely do it without trains

if you really hate people

[unique cypress]

nah, if I wasn't doing crazy endgame goals, I wouldn't be using trains at all

you can easily build everything near the nodes it needs

[cerulean stratus]

yeah that's exactly what I do

You end up building in the same nodes though, because there's only so many places that are optimal

northern forest, that place with coal in the desert
pretty much any oil field

[unique cypress]

yeah, from tier 6, there are like 2-3 optimal spots for each factory

[cerulean stratus]

oof, I got that at around 100 hours

It's a lot of ballistic warp drives

[cerulean stratus]

what would you say they are?

bottom right is always power
Golden Coast is superb for anything endgame
Desert is pretty good for hmf
Northern forest is so peak, honestly making the early game there feels like such a waste

Having 2 oil nodes there, even if impure, makes the whole northern forest just S++

Turbo heavy diamonds is such a hilarious recipe

[unique cypress]

I like it

oil diamonds if I want to use oil, turbo diamonds if I want to use coal

[cerulean stratus]

It feels like it expects you to have drones sending in turbofuel for fuel distribution

[unique cypress]

in 1.0, I put turbo diamonds in the blue crater

[cerulean stratus]

tbf, seeing how turbofuel can be a product of rocket fuel, it's not a bad idea

[unique cypress]

are you drunk or something lol
usually you're more... comprehensible
I think

[cerulean stratus]

what kind of factory layouts do you recommend?

[unique cypress]

catch

yeah, no, I have no clue what's going on lol

[cerulean stratus]

ah, so plan a certain amount for a factory and then build it

I legit never did that

actually, no. I do it some times, but I always leave space to build more

the issue starts when I need to build a LOT more than I anticipated

"Oh I'm building the steel here. I'm going to build some pipes and beams first, and then make some spelev parts"
And it all works well

Where I lose the plot is when I need to make 60 modular frames per minute for hmf and versatiles

the manifolds become way longer than my brain anticipated, even if my factory can definitely expand a lot more

[crimson moat]

crazy endgame goals is why i dont use trains

it takes 50GW to mine everything, free to ship with belts, but i think on the magnitude of hundreds of GW to ship with trains (IDK, but it's a surprisingly big number at scale)

they can be fun but they're so big and they also use power and for that trouble you don't get much back

with the probable exception of an expandable highway with arbitrary start/end points, which is more flexible

[unique cypress]

Well, my endgame goal always is power so it's not like that's an issue 🙃

[crimson moat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg14jNbBb-8

[crimson moat]

With some very napkin math it takes over 50 GW to move all of the solids to center map

so not quite as high as i feared

but enough that it can throw off a tight plan if you don't have >100GW budgeted for resource extraction and movement 😛

[pulsar idol]

how many oil refineries can used on a impure overlocked oil miner

cause i set up 3 and wanting to know if more than 3 is possible

[fallow siren]

place refinery, and then check the number

[upbeat summit]

Got some 3 hard drives, and just unlocked aluminium, any alt recipes to hunt for?

[fallow glacier]

If I dont have access to valves yet, this should work as a water tower right?

[random creek]

Yes

(All of them lol)

[upbeat summit]

💀 man should've hunted for more

[random creek]

But if you want to prioritize, then pure amd sloppy

[upbeat summit]

Got 2 more of them, but I believe using those to unlock turbo fuel and that coke reciepe in mam is more imp

[upbeat summit]

Okk

[random creek]

Combining them all together allows you to maximize the aluminum per bauxite used

Pure ingot allows you to remove silica to produce

And sloppy removes the silica byproduct

[upbeat summit]

I see

I mean isn't silica also kinda useful?, but that's extremely situational

[random creek]

In production? I guess it depends on what you making

But typically im not making silica products in my aluminum factory lol

[upbeat summit]

qs about turbofuel? currently i see that i could make it using fuel and coal

but that doesn't seem feasable, are there alt recepies to it? and what is the one that i should be looking for?

[rich bison]

this is my rocket fuel design (just remove that step) its the most efficient way to make it #screenshots (give me a sec)

fuck nvm i didnt save it

but yeah theres an alt recipe called turbo blend fuel, it simplifies the recipe down to sulfur and oil

and is more efficient

[vapid gorge]

The pump beforehand is doing more work than the buffer. The buffer is in fact reducing headlift there

[upbeat summit]

alr thanks

[rich bison]

and on the whole fuel thing, diluted fuel is the way to go, and with that the heavy oil residue alt recipe

[upbeat summit]

yeah i'm already producing power using that, hor - packaged fuel - fuel

but i've been reading that turbofuel is a lot better so that is wy i was looking for it

[rich bison]

yeah turbo fuel is pretty good

then theres rocket fuel which is awesome

[upbeat summit]

need to hunt for sulfur now xD

[rich bison]

a great place for turbo/rocket fuel is in the bottom right of the map at a huge lake between the plains and swamp

it has lots of sulfer, oil, nitrogen (and coal)

oil is actually the limiting resource if i remember right