math-and-meta

[deft lichen]

the sink points of a given part are calculated from the input ingredients among other stuff, they have a formula

[unique cypress]

The formula for solids is very simple. The output is worth double the sum of values of inputs

I tried to apply to liquids as well

[wind spade]

sometimes

[deft lichen]

there 100% are exceptions but it sounds plausible

[unique cypress]

I haven't found an exception yet but then again I only checked a few things

And it doesn't apply to alts obviously

[wind spade]

anything that has more than one recipe, usually

[unique cypress]

What item has more than 1 default recipe?

[wind spade]

plastic

[unique cypress]

That has liquid ingredients. And a liquid byproduct

[deft lichen]

and some items don't have a primary default recipe (poly resin)

[wind spade]

liquids have sink points in game code tho

[deft lichen]

yeah I think that at one point it was listed in docs

[wind spade]

oil has 30, water has 5, etc.

[deft lichen]

or it is listed and we just aren't showing it on the wiki?

[wind spade]

I have some faint memory of adding an exception if item isn't solid, then I'm not showing the sink point value for wiki

tho Tools apparently have it still "wrong" 😄

[deft lichen]

yes it's in docs

[unique cypress]

Why is DMR inconsistent then

[deft lichen]

nevermind, DMR lists "mResourceSinkPoints": "130"

[wind spade]

because you're trying to force consistency into something that never was consistent in the first place

[deft lichen]

I tried searching up the clip on Marv's site to no luck

[wind spade]

sink point is a hand picked value, and while they indeed did "double ingredients = product value" as a base, they can tweak it as they want 😉

[deft lichen]

nvm it's in wiki docs too, the exception is in the rendering code

although there it's multiplied by 1000

[wind spade]

ah, may have been something else then

yeah because fluids 😄 idk where the actual error is

Tools have the same error

[deft lichen]

the wiki uses m3 whereas the game uses liters

[wind spade]

well yeah, I mean where in the code

because I'm pretty sure I've dealt with this before somewhere in the code

but apparently not well enough

[unique cypress]

why are APMs worth 210 points lmao

[deft lichen]

these acronyms are too 1.0 for me to recognize

[unique cypress]

alien power matrix

[deft lichen]

!wikisearch APM

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=APM

[deft lichen]

easy

[wind spade]

damn humans and their need to have order in everything. God forbid that one thing would not follow common rules

[unique cypress]

I am genuinely considering making a mod to make this consistent

[wind spade]

why tho. Nowhere is said that this needs to be consistent

[unique cypress]

evolution gave me pattern recognition and I'm gonna fkn use it

[wind spade]

well you didn't recognise it well enough if items don't fit your pattern 😛

[oblique hollow]

Reminder that technically DMR is also, like plastic and HOR, made from a liquid - that being photonic matter

Whats the value for HOR anyway

It has 2 default recipes too

Plastic and Rubber

DMR has like 6 "defaults"

[unique cypress]

30. and it's consistent with the default plastic and rubber recipes

[oblique hollow]

How precisely? is it the average of both or something

As rubber makes double the HOR

[unique cypress]

like these recipes add up

oil is 30, HOR is 30, plastic is 75, rubber is 60

[oblique hollow]

I guess they just thought DMR is too annoying to calculate that way lol

[unique cypress]

but this one doesn't

[oblique hollow]

Afaik some packaging recipes also have values that dont add up

[unique cypress]

RSAM is 160, so should DMR. but no, it's 130

[oblique hollow]

Because if they do it that way then DMR as a byproduct inflates the point count or something
Or it devalues DMCs

[unique cypress]

but if EPM is 100, then according to this recipe, DMR is 0

[oblique hollow]

Thats probably why its so inconsistent. All the recipes make wildly different amounts and use different amounts of EPM

[wind spade]

30

from docs

[oblique hollow]

It was gameplay balance first most likely and then they tried to calculate points and noticed "shit this is a mess"

Water byproduct loops would also be a mess for water points

Water is like 0 isnt it

[wind spade]

5

[oblique hollow]

So packaged water then is still accurate point wise....
Alr, maybe they did update it

According to NQP DMR is also 0

[unique cypress]

Found 1 inconsistency in the pre-1.0 recipes

alumina solution should be 18.666 points

they rounded it to 20

[oblique hollow]

yeah decimals arent allowed afaik

[unique cypress]

but the scrap maths out with that value

[oblique hollow]

ok so AI Server also says DMR is 0

But all of that hinges on the point value of DMCs anyway

And APMs being 210 kinda sounds like "fuck you, use em or eat dirt"

Which is.... kinda valid lmao

You could also just go the simple thought way and say "all encoder recipes turn EPM into DMR" so its value should therefore be 200

[main thicket]

i did it manually blueprints didnt work

[orchid brook]

overkill?

[frosty owl]

For personal use?
I'm good with 10/min ^^

Also, yes, the recipe selection is quite overkill. You end up barely using some of the machines involved, given how high their normal output are. That feels "wasteful" (you could get the same output with less machines and far less complexity, though you'll probably be using a tiny bit more ores)

[orchid brook]

nah its the space elvetor pahse 1

i think i can follow that

[frosty owl]

You might wanna take into account that Discord lowers a bit the resolution of the pictures you send. Only the second picture you sent has any readable elements

(Ofc, one could "download the original", but that's a chore for multiple images...)

[crimson moat]

I've never seen discord lower resolution or compress images

[frosty owl]

You can feed Spelevator productions with stuff for "personal use" if you wish 🤷‍♂️
Eg: you don't stockpile reinforced plates until the Smart Plating production is done (since a limited amount of items are required, it's not gonna run forever)

[orchid brook]

ya ur right

better fix it now

[unique cypress]

Yeah, right Phase 1 with a converter

[orchid brook]

i am redoing it

for funses

[unique cypress]

You can't just redo phases. Once it's done, it's done

[orchid brook]

the good old times

[unique cypress]

If you yearn for the good old times, go use only mk1 belts in a nuke plant or something

[orchid brook]

ooo good idea

[haughty barn]

yes

[orchid brook]

no sh**

[unique cypress]

Most of these machines are at 0 so maybe not

This is just spaghetti for the sake of spaghetti

Spaghettify an actual production line

[orchid brook]

ya i am working out the numbers still

[frosty owl]

Bolted is betterest

[haughty barn]

bolted my behated...

[crimson moat]

@frosty owl
that's weird. Are you using phone or something?

[frosty owl]

Yep

[crimson moat]

they might compress images for phones

[frosty owl]

So, most users xD

[crimson moat]

I only ever see the one you posted on the right

i don't think most users on discord are posting from phone

It's like, the #1 gaming PC chat client

that can also be read from a phone, but has awful usability there

[frosty owl]

I think most people use discord on the phone
There might be stats on it somewhere, but generally speaking I think all social media have <40% desktop users

[wind spade]

based on random google search, it seems their usage rate is like 60:40 (desktop vs phone)

[frosty owl]

Well, I was wrong ^^ (and in the minority apparently)

[crimson moat]

and even then i imagine that phone is mostly people just checking up on their dm's or something

not like, sitting on discord for 8 hours, viewing images and having conversations

[wind spade]

but 40% is still a lot, so I wouldn't say "most"

[frosty owl]

Tbh, I just find it quit annoying to open it on Desktop. Takes a while to load

Other than to upload files, I'm always on mobile. Hell, sometimes I might download a file on my phone to upload on Discord

[crimson moat]

4.8 seconds, long time cause it's this browser crap i forgot the name of

but i mostly open it and it runs for 100 hrs

[wind spade]

SFTools has like 88:12 ratio but that's because it's shit on phone

[frosty owl]

Jesus, so it's not just my shitty hardware making things more unbearable o.O

[frosty owl]

Oh, don't even get me started on the recipe searchbars on mobile...

[wind spade]

discord permanently lives on one of my screens on desktop, never had issues with performance or speed. On the contrary, their stupid app on phone is buggy

(well it's usable for most cases, but I still don't enjoy using it)

[frosty owl]

My annoyance is with opening it. Once open, it's fine, but by the time it loads I could have answered on mobile already, so that's what I usually do xD
Add to that opening it rarely and you always have to update too...

[wind spade]

well since I open it when I boot the PC and then keep it open (PC always in sleep mode), it's permanently open

and in most cases (apart from update time) it launches within a few seconds

[frosty owl]

As pointed out

[wind spade]

electron? 😄

5 seconds is honestly shorter than most apps nowdays

[deft lichen]

it wrecks the preview of JPEGs, but the downloaded image is the same

on desktop

[crimson moat]

My preview is identical to downloaded image

[wind spade]

is it a jpeg?

pngs seem fine

[pulsar idol]

hey guys

for a coal power plant, is it one water extrator for two coal gens?

[dusky dust]

The machines themselves will tell you how much they produce/require. How much does an extractor provide? How much does a coal gen need?

(||At default clock speeds, that's 120/min for Extractors and 45/min for coal gens, btw. You've got to scale up a bit before you can get to whole numbers, without underclocking (or overclocking); the usually-recommended ratio is 3 extractors for 8 coal gens, with some creative piping to handle the fact that that's 360/min water||)

The other thing you can always do is adjust clock speeds to suit, of course

[vapid gorge]

what apoc said

as well, don't do math based on numbers of machines. Almost no systems past the intro ingots will easily be divided by machine, plus there's different recipes for items

use actual parts per min , ect

[pulsar idol]

ah, well im building one atm

how much power total for a starting 8 coal gens?

will it be enough for me to get started into steel production?

and also use the vehicle logistics?

[wind spade]

that depends on how much you build

it's impossible to answer. You may build 3 machines, or 30, or 300

[spiral sonnet]

For simple steel production u need at that stage it will be more than enough

[pulsar idol]

okie, cause im planning it out rn

well when i unlock it

[spiral hornet]

Should i be consuming this much power before even automating steel? I already have 18 coal generators and I would have to expand pretty far to tap more coal for power. Am i doing something wrong?

[carmine jay]

were making a mega factory for heavy modular frames and wanted to cut back on the complexity so overclocked some of the machines
with the stitched iron plates it still calls for .33 extra
but that .33 extra is also overclocked to 200%
would that assembler therefore just be at 66%?

[dusky dust]

"Should" is a question only you can answer. Personally I tend to end phase 2 with between 48-64 coal gens, but other folks might go smaller or bigger

There's a few spots on the map where there's clusters of like four coal nodes right next to water; those are pretty much designed to be your coal powerhouses. And yeah, they may be a fair ways away from where you're otherwise building factories, but there's no problem with expanding. :)

[haughty barn]

also if you care about resource efficiency, encased industrial pipes save on both concrete and steel, at the cost of more machines

[unique cypress]

Machine count is basically the sum of uptimes.

21.33 machines means that if you place 22 or more, the sum total of all uptimes across all of them should be 2133% in to achieve desired output. The fact that they're overclocked doesn't change that.

If you want all of them running at 100% uptime, and you place 21 at 200%, you're still left with 0.33@200%. which is 0.66@100% or 1@66%. Or whatever else you want, as long as the uptime and clock speed multiply to 0.66

And unrelated to your question, I'd swap out default Encased Beams for the alt, default Modular Frame for the Steeled alt, and choose an output number that's an integer multiple of what 1 manufacturer outputs (at your desired clock speed), for example 22@100% would output 61.875/min

[tame harbor]

600 MW, not counting the water extractor and miner power draw

[carmine jay]

that would require us to rip down the entire nearly complete factory and start over
so no

i acknowledge that would be a good idea

if we started with that in mind

which we did not

[tame harbor]

Belt input Biomass Burners and/or Power Storage can help smooth out power draw peaks

Plus (while it takes yet more creative piping with water extractors) you can overclock the coal generators and water extractor if you find your power grid struggling before you hit phase 2

[tame harbor]

"Nothing more permanent than a temporary solution"

[unique cypress]

One of the reasons why I always suggest to at least plan your recipes in a calculator that chooses them for you. For example SFTools optimizes for lowest resource usage, and it would've suggested Encased Industrial Pipe.

Though it does have its limits. Because default Modular Frame is 0.4% cheaper, it won't suggest the much more convenient Steeled Frame unless you disable default and notice that the difference in iron is miniscule while the difference in machine count is huge

Despite that, it's still faster to prototype recipe choices in Tools, because they're simple checkboxes - you don't need to manually reconnect nodes to change a recipe

[tame harbor]

looks at Bolted frame like the green goblin mask

#SteelScrews4Lyfe

[unique cypress]

Bolted frame with steel screws is in that awkward middle - neither the most efficient nor the most compact

Not sure whether I should call it the best or the worst of both worlds

[tiny leaf]

whats the flow of resources for the most efficient rubber/plastic set up?

any charts would be very helpful

[queen slate]

Here's an example with 4 alternative recipes, including Diluted Fuel (can be swapped for Diluted Packaged if you don't want to wait for Blender).

[dusky dust]

Yeah, one of sftools' biggest advantages is the triviality of comparing recipe chains. Just some checkboxes here and there and you've got instant comparisons

It's somewhat rare for me to just accept the first solution sftools gives me, since it can't know exactly what nodes happen to be around and what I might prefer in some circumstances.

(I mean, I could tweak the resource availability to mimic local nodes but I generally prefer to just twiddle with recipes a bit instead)

I actually mostly use my own homegrown solver for planning factories, but if I want to compare recipe chains I'll nearly always use sftools for it, 'cause that's much more convenient than my own garbage code. :D

[tiny leaf]

thanks i have blenders
im planning to use 2700 crude for this factory

rubber is used more than plastic right?

planning to do a 1:2 split of rubber to plastic

so 1800 for rubber 900 for plastic

[dusky dust]

Depends on recipe selection later on

Any split you decide on now will be a gamble

[wind spade]

you most likely won't get it right so make what you need now 😉

[dusky dust]

Looks like on my 1.0 save I actually ended up using more Plastic than Rubber, though I do think it's more common to end up needing more Rubber

[wind spade]

and later you'll make what you need for later

[dusky dust]

To be fair, if you're setting up a most-oil-efficient-fuel-loop system, that's one case where it kind of is easier to just build it out all at once and then chip away at your supply as needed

[lavish agate]

Hey guys. Anyone here know any setup for fuel generators with adicional plastic and rubber on the side?

[tiny leaf]

this was the plan

rn i dont have any needs for a big production of rubber/plastic

[wind spade]

if you're gonna rebuild it later anyway because you got the ratio wrong, it's imo easier to build on demand 🤷

[dusky dust]

I actually did write some tools to assist me with "dynamic" most-oil-efficient-fuel-loop setups, and had it laid out so that it could be expanded in either way. :D

[tiny leaf]

just want to get it out of the way though

[dusky dust]

Like so I'd know "okay, just X more refineries on Recycled Plastic clocked at Y%" and so on. Worked pretty well, though only because I knew what I was doing to myself. :P

[dusky dust]

Yeah, for the most-oil-efficient-loop specifically I can go either way, honestly. It's one case where I can understand wanting to kind of guess at a ratio. Just gotta be prepared to be wrong, is all. :P

Building one of those loops bigger than it needs to be is a lot less work than setting up multiple loops

[tiny leaf]

its fine i can change the ratio later anyways just would have to switch some recipes etc

the diluted fuel and polymer resin -> rubber remains constant

just gotta change around the recylced part

[dusky dust]

Eh, yes and no; modifying the ratios on an established system there is kind of nontrivial, IMO

(Hence why I wrote software to do all the computations for me. :D)

At that point I'd just spin up some more petrochem processing instead. :P

[tiny leaf]

algebras my strong suit
ill figure it out
if its too complicated ill end up just bringing more crude to the factory and dealing with it that way

[tame harbor]

I think i made a setup that ran all the plastic and rubber on a loop with the outflow being more of an "overflow" so my setup could dynamically compensate

[tiny leaf]

[tame harbor]

Not at home RN tho so I can't show how I did it

[unique cypress]

The advantage of a properly set up recycling loop is that it's adaptive. Depending on what you pull from it, it can produce 100% plastic, 100% rubber and anything in-between. You just have to have the production capacity for that.

If you have, for example, 600 oil, if you set it up for 1800 plastic + 1800 rubber, it'll never make that much of both, but it can make 1800 total, in any ratio

[tame harbor]

I think that's what I did basically

[devout ingot]

isnt it smart to just put all the heavy oil residue next to the power stuff, then transport all the polymer resin byproduct to make rubber/ plastic next to the rubber/plastic loop

[tame harbor]

You wind up using all the fuel to make the rubber and plastic

[brisk urchin]

1800 total from 600 oil?

ah i deaded my brain

that math is right

i calculated with 1200 somehow

[devout ingot]

i meant to say use the byproduct to help with the polymer resin factory make rubber/plastic

[unique cypress]

I'll never mix HOR/DF production for power and rubber, but I do often use the byproduct resin from power for plubber. just add an overflow to sink in case it backs up for whatever reason

[devout ingot]

you can have two seperate factories, the polymer resin factory with the rubber/plastic loop and have the byproduct factory making residual rubber/plastic or just sink the polymer resin

[tame harbor]

Unless you have an Overflow sink setup then plastic/rubber backing up will risk backing up the power

But generally speaking the transportation overhead is usually considered not worth it iirc

[devout ingot]

i find oil valuable enough to think about transporting the byproduct lmao

[tame harbor]

Besides once you get rocket fuel you're getting 130-140 is GW from 600 oil/minute, and producing a whopping 400 resin/minute

[mossy ibex]

I have a nice setup that uses 900 oil -> 900 fuel for turbofuel power (soon to be rocket), and 900 each of plastic and rubber to handle the byproducts

[devout ingot]

yeah i was looking at the numbers for power for fuel and rocket beats turbo so much lmao

[dusky dust]

Yeah, Turbofuel as power is pretty niche

[mossy ibex]

it's just the tier I'm at, I'll upgrade soon. It's all planned, going to drive 120 fully OCed generators once the upgrade happens

[unique cypress]

With proper priorities, this setup makes plubber in literally any ratio. Just have to overbuild the recycling refineries by like 25%

[devout ingot]

turbo is like 1.3x of normal fuel, rocket is like 8x of normal fuel

[dusky dust]

I stand by turbofuel-as-power more than most, but at that phase you're generally far better off hunting for the HOR + (Packaged) Diluted Fuel recipes

[mossy ibex]

yeah it's a DPF setup

[dusky dust]

Mostly just if you really don't want to play Recipe Roulette, and happen to be building somewhere that's already got all three of oil+sulfur+coal handy (of which there aren't too many spots on the map)

[mossy ibex]

I know blenders are simpler, but the factory that handles the packages is chefskiss, I'm keeping it

[dusky dust]

Yeah, packaging isn't a big deal, especially since you can blueprint a closed 1x Reinfery / 2x Packager loop and pretend it's a mini-blender. :)

[devout ingot]

isnt it smart to get the exact number of package containers needed then just put it into a container next to a balancer

[brisk urchin]

my friend did not wna do that lol, and i hated him for it

like he saw the 60 input and output on all packaging recepies and said, naaaah lets manifold it

[dusky dust]

IMO the easiest way is blueprinting a closed loop; can include like 10-20 Empty Packages right inside the input buffer in the blueprint, and they'll work like a dream

[unique cypress]

I usually do 2 blueprints so they pack together better

[brisk urchin]

like, AHHHHHH, i exploded

[mossy ibex]

yeah I didn't do that method and it was a pain, but I did get it working with some help, and the cascade of infinite packages going up and down looks dope af

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it's a bit tough to get it looking nice in a single blueprint, especially if you're still on the mk1

[dusky dust]

Yeah, there's something to be said for doing a silly project just for the sake of it. :D

Watching the packages zip around is fun no matter how you do it

[devout ingot]

can you explain how it works in more detail?

[mossy ibex]

you make a blue print that has some water packages that go into a refinery and get output in a small loop to an unpackager. There is a HOR pipe input and a fuel output

then you spam that blueprint at the scale you need to eat all your oil

or HOR really, but generally people use the HOR alt recipe

to make oil directly into HOR

[unique cypress]

all 3 recipes involved produce/consume empty/full canisters at 60/min. you build a packager, refinery, and unpackager and connect the belts in a closed loop.

BP it whole or in parts, add ~20 empty/full canisters somewhere in the BP (so you don't have to fill them manually) and then it basically behaves like a blender. HOR and Water input, Fuel output

[devout ingot]

oh ok now i get

[dusky dust]

It's a bit tight to fit that into the mk1 4x4 blueprinter, though it can be done. :)

[hidden fulcrum]

Herros, I've recently entered the packing age, and I seem to be having a producing shortage. (reading alert)

Situation:
I've got 2 refiners making fuel (200 [Combined] Per Minute) and polymer (150 [Combined] PM), And I run it 2 to other refinery's making plastic (90 [polymer] Needed per minute) & Rubber (40 [polymer] NPM). Yet I'm not making enough polymer. And the fuel I'm making is routed to a buffer that's allowing the system to run. not sure what's happing nor why it not working... Any ideas?

[deft lichen]

please make a #1038092680493801533 thread with screenshots of your setup

[hidden fulcrum]

alr

[haughty barn]

my final plan for a base uses all of the uranium and all of the aluminum for max nuclear power and 30 minutes for phase 5 and im going to be left with converted bauxite for personal use aluminum

maybe 10 teleporters was overkill

[near isle]

Hello, would anyone be willing to get on a call with me and help me troubleshoot some fuel line issues? I've tried everything and my head is going to explode

[vapid gorge]

post overhead images of what is going on. Very likely a easy fix

[green birch]

returning player here been planning my factory with this planner but i didn't have it saved and not remembering what it's called
loved how well it worked for me and cant imagine myself using other ones, any help is appreciated!

[vapid gorge]

if you google 'satisfactory, planner' you'll probably get the hit in the first page or 2

[near isle]

I have a pure oil node that is overclocked to deliver 540 m3 of oil per min carried by a Mk2 pipe (max 600m3 per min) It all goes into 10 refineries, they are all overclocked slightly different but they all have a combined heavy oil residue output of 255m3 per min. (half make rubber, the other half plastic) The heavy oil residue then goes into 3 more refineries which make residue fuel, with a combined demand of 246m3 of heavy oil residue per min, which is less than the total output of the other refineries (255m3 per min). Combined they make 160m3 per mind of fuel which feeds into 8 fuel gens with a total demand of 160m3 of fuel per min, yet everything keeps getting sucked dry and idling! From the fuel gens to the first 10 refineries that intake oil. I've banged my head agaisnt my desk enough so please help

[vapid gorge]

ok so the fuel gens are starving right?
follow the fuel backwards to the refineries, are the fuel outputs there clogged or empty?

trouble shooting 101

[green birch]

After digging a bit more I found it
It was satisfactory-planner.vercel.app
Very useful would recommend

[vapid gorge]

I've used it before. Not for me. UI isn't up to scratch

[near isle]

this is what I keep doing and yes all the lines eventually start starving even though I let the whole pipe network fill before turning them back on. The 10 refineries have a demand of 540m3 of oil per min which is exactly how much I've overclocked the oild extractor to give

And again I let everything fill so it shouldn't be starting after a while right?

[vapid gorge]

ok but if you have the numbers right, some section of this should be backing up right?

so first delete that buffer

then move the pump to the packager to just after the junction split. Fluid manifolds don't like branches

so you said the Refineries are empty of fuel right?
are they starving of oil?

[near isle]

the first 10 refineries take oil and make heavy oil residue, and yes they eventually starve, the last 3 at least - I think maybe I need a pump somewhere

[vapid gorge]

ok is the oil extractor backed up and stuttering?

go look at it and see if it's light flashes yellow

[near isle]

Does this angle need a pump?

[vapid gorge]

less about the angle and more about the height increase

you're kinda feeding from below, but do the extractor check I told you

that will give info
trouble shooting 101 is just following the problem backwards or forwards as needed until you find the issue area

[near isle]

This might help

Then it kinda looked like it was filling just fine but again these were completely full before I turned them off so they should stay that way if the input and ouput is correct right?

[silent hawk]

What planner is that? I might switch to it bcs satisfactory tools has been giving me issues lately

[mild solar]

which of these better

[haughty barn]

Iron pipe

[mild solar]

yea youre probably right

[vapid gorge]

what issues?

[vapid gorge]

plastic limiter is really efficient on caterium. Just spits it out. Iron pipe doesn't need coal but chews through prob ably 5x as much iron as regular recipe

[mild solar]

is there a chance to get the plastic ai limiter again on a different drive

[vapid gorge]

your oil extractor isn't stuttering
but your oil receiving refineries are starved? if that's the case you've mathed wrong

[vapid gorge]

you are never ever locked out of recipes

[mild solar]

great

[vapid gorge]

I just never use iron pipe because ... it jsut chews through so much iron.

I think iron is a trash resource and I'll spend it like water.
but Iron Pipe uses too much iron for me

[mild solar]

so what would you choose

[vapid gorge]

depends what your next factory is going to be

[mild solar]

im currently making my pipes out of traditional coal and iron

[vapid gorge]

doesn't sound like you're going to make another factory for pipes soon then?

[mild solar]

well I gotta go for phase 3 now, which is that one ball thing and that jet engine looking thing

I have the frame looking thing already

[vapid gorge]

if you think you'll need ai limiters for it? plastic limiter might be useful

if neither seem great you can reroll

like I said, yhou're never locked out

[mild solar]

okayyy

[supple belfry]

Don’t unlock a recipe until you’re initiating the build where you’re sure you’ll use it.

[small yacht]

Thinking of doing this for my plastic rubber plant

[mild solar]

Or I wanna make my current factories more space efficient

[haughty barn]

I like using iron pipes because fewer types of resources

[paper isle]

rate my new plant

[near isle]

Sexy coal plant

[paper isle]

very neat compared to the last one i made

[vapid gorge]

it's not particularly compact. and makes it harder to make more sections of power that you'll need?

but if it works it works

hopefully you under clocked the extractors? otherwise you're consuming a lot more of a power chunk per mw produced than normal

[gloomy gyro]

How many alt recipes are there

[vapid gorge]

a few less than hard drives

[gloomy gyro]

So the same amount of you man reasearched?

[vapid gorge]

? there's more hard drives on the map than alt recipes.

you could check the wiki on hard drives and it'll probably have the number

or the page on alt recipes

[gloomy gyro]

But will there be more than all alt and mam research tree

[vapid gorge]

the research trees have basically nothign to do with alt recipes except for a few you unlock with a drive

[gloomy gyro]

Ik but some unlocks use hard drives don’t they

[vapid gorge]

you are never locked out of any recipe available in game.

again if you want a specific number there's probably that on the wiki page

[gloomy gyro]

What’s the research for ionised fuel

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=undefined

[gloomy gyro]

You know what I give up

[vapid gorge]

go forth and see what you need for it

[gloomy gyro]

Somethings in the research tree like ionised fuel require hard drives to unlock

I was just wondering if all the hard drives in the game is enough for all of its need

[vapid gorge]

yes I have mentioned it before

you are never locked out of recipes, they are all available, there are more hard drives than recipes.

[fallow siren]

i gather all the hard drives in the map, unlock everything in mam and every alt

and i still left with 5 hard drives

that should tell you everything you need to know

[inner lion]

So it seems like prior to 1.0

You could only continuously run indefinitely… uranium fuel rods via sinking plutonium rods (wasteful).

But with 1.0 that unlocks indefinitely running,

Not just plutonium fuel rods, but also ficsonium rods ?

Is that right ?

[fallow siren]

yes, but ficsonium is incredibly expensive that its better to use sam to convert more uranium than making ficsonium itself

[vapid gorge]

how is that wasteful? if your goal is 'get rid of waste' it's great.
you could use them in vehicles too

ficsonium is basically there to people who couldn't stop themselves from burning plu rods.

[inner lion]

how does this work?

[fallow siren]

youre using SAM to convert other resources into uranium in converter machine

you need bauxite to be converted into uranium, but you can use copper or caterium to convert into bauxite

[spiral hornet]

Is a dedicated Versitile Framework factory pointless for phase 2? Other than phase 2 the only thing requireing it is a tier 8 tech. If I have everytthing else already automated for it should i just drop down a few assemblers and craft 1k only?

[fallow siren]

every space part item will be used for more advanced space part item

[vapid gorge]

you can also just funnel extra basic parts to a side factory to make them when your storage fills. Smart splitters are useful

[deft lichen]

Fyi there's also !wiki

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @deft lichen

[rocky cypress]

Is there a way to fix this? Wether I put the pipeline wall hole up or down, the pipe will always come at an incline/decline.

[vapid gorge]

could half nudge it up?

[rocky cypress]

Everytime I want to nudge it up or down, it goes through the wall for some reason

Left and right work, but up or down, it goes through the wall

[vapid gorge]

odd

[wind spade]

clip pipe through wall? 😄

[rocky cypress]

[rocky cypress]

I hate that that is the only viable option for now to make it look straight 🥲

[wind spade]

can't you then snap the pipe hole on top of the clipped pipe? 🤔

(idk, haven't tried it)

[rocky cypress]

Same issue arises, it will be either too high or too low

This is not satisfactory for me, but it will have to do

[wind spade]

so you can't snap it directly on top of the pipe?

[rocky cypress]

Not without it looking bent

Or odd

[wind spade]

alr

[still blade]

anyone knows how to use satisfactory calculator? i have two impure nodes of iron totaling to 60 iron/m, and i want to know how many reinforced iron plates and rotors I can make, but the website asks for how many i want to make

[wind spade]

SCIM can't do that

[still blade]

damn

[wind spade]

there are other tools that can do that (but tbh I'd recommend not going from nodes to product, instead go from product to nodes)

(and I wouldn't recommend SCIM for later productions, there are loops and byproducts, and SCIM can't really deal with those)

[silent hawk]

What greeny said + if you use satisfactory tools you can do maximize option instead of however per minute but you will need to say the input amount

[still blade]

alright so i did that, how do i balance this junction

[wind spade]

several options:

• clock the smelters so that each one produces the amount one side needs
• one splitter (it will self-balance)
• weird balancer that balances in that exact ratio

[rocky cypress]

I find it weird that you calculate the amount of oil. Divide it equally into 2 lines, and one line is getting all of the oil, and the other one too, but slightly less. Then you just disconnect a pipe and connect it again and it is fixed?

[tender junco]

Are you using page up / page down for up and down? The up and down arrows with move it forward and backwards (through the wall).

[deft lichen]

the issue is the ceiling attached pole

ground pipe supports are 1.3 m tall and thus wall holes are offset by 0.3 m

if you attach a wall pole to the ceiling, it's 1.0 m or so from the ceiling, but the wall hole is still offset

[rocky cypress]

I tried the page up/down. So like ondar says, issue is the difference between the two things.

[deft lichen]

if you want it to align, you mustn't use ceiling poles

a similar issue happens when you attach wall poles directly to the sides of foundations instead of building them on walls

[rocky cypress]

I guess I could always make huge ladders with pipeline supports and later remove them

Since I build everything on grid, it should align

[deft lichen]

you could also build the pipe through the wall without attaching it to the wall hole (then the pipe will be straight but visibly misaligned with the hole)

[rocky cypress]

I did that, simply built it through the wall. Bothers a little bit. But by the time I move on to other projects, I will forget about it.

[rocky cypress]

I want to come back to this. I thought I fixed it, but the problem simply transfers to the other line. One line always falls short.

[deft lichen]

pipe junctions aren't splitters

[rocky cypress]

If I remove pipe and reatach it, the problem is fixed for that line, but the problem transfers to the other line.

[rocky cypress]

How would be the way to fix this?

[deft lichen]

you can't really equally divide fluids

not even with valves

the fluid simulation system is overly complicated

as long as the math works out (production = consumption and no pipe limits are exceeded), just let it run and do its thing

[frosty owl]

How did you snap the first wall hole in the "correct" position in the first place?

[frosty owl]

Halves and thirds are possible

[deft lichen]

correction: an intricate mechanism can be built to achieve this, but is ultimately pointless as any factory can be built without it

[rocky cypress]

Not sure what you mean

[frosty owl]

You're trying to align a wall hole to another wall hole you already built, right?

[deft lichen]

that looks nudged?

they found the misalignment you get between ceiling poles and wall holes

[frosty owl]

Ah, yeah, no way around that

[vapid gorge]

can't you just clip a pipe stand in a wall and have that as the 'hole' ?

[deft lichen]

oh my goodness

[frosty owl]

I wouldn't call a junction with 2 simmetrical outputs "intricate" xD
It's as simple as making things look orderly

[deft lichen]

didn't think of that at all

[deft lichen]

@rocky cypress there's your solution

[vapid gorge]

had to solve it some way before I had micro manage 4 years ago

[deft lichen]

when I encounter stuff like that I just tell myself I'm being too much of a perfectionist and just built it bent

[vapid gorge]

you probably need tobuidl the foundation first, then pole, then wall? but most fancy architecture is multi step

[deft lichen]

yeah, likely remove wall -> ceiling pole -> replace wall

[rocky cypress]

Life hack

I already laid the pipe work, but will remember it for future projects

[deft lichen]

is that really guaranteed to be an equal split? I would think that if at any point either side backs up, it'll mess it up

[frosty owl]

Well, that's the fault of the rest of the system, not the split itself 🤷‍♂️ (and if it's backing up, there's no need to split evenly anyway as it's all balancing out)

[deft lichen]

is there ever a need to split evenly?

[frosty owl]

To fancy one's weird preferences

The only "practical" difference is allowing to "load-balance" fluid between machines; ie: having fluid machines run with minimal fluid inside rather than full input inventories

[unique cypress]

Loading/unloading "depart when empty/full trains"

[frosty owl]

Also having a row of machines all turning on at the exact same time. That can be quite neat (with solids, there's a small stagger between machines)

[deft lichen]

valid

actually the one place where I use belt balancers too (besides nuclear)

[oblique hollow]

Some slight summaries from yesterday's talk with @inner gulch and their findings:

1. Pipes indeed have pressure. Head lift is just one externalized form of this.
   But flow rate is still capped so raising pressure into infinity doesnt do anything. And pressure is also of course still affected by pipe fullness

2. Pressure is actually calculated using Bernoulli's equation (partially at least)

3. Valves and Pumps break pipe networks into groups called "pressure groups"
   Pump Head lift in the traditional sense is only transfered between pressure groups and only a full pipe is added to a pressure group.

This grouping is also the reason pumps cant read the head lift past valves and why the hologram ring stops right at the valve.

According to header files, valves are just pumps in a way and a pump cant read past another pump

And valves.... Well lets just say that valves in series were indeed never a good idea, but that kind of seems like a design oversight

[deft lichen]

this should be put on the wiki

[oblique hollow]

They still arent done and a lot of info still has to be checked

But that info on valves does check out

As far as i understood, because the system recalculates pressure every tick and because valves do not store (pump) pressure from previous ticks you kind of lose the head lift after going through 2 valves unless the math just so happens to process them all in the right sequence

Gravitational pressure should in theory always be calculated but pump head lift kind of tends to get lost in between upon recalculation

[wet breach]

so at the moment this is my future proof smelter setup for 2 pure nodes mk3 miners, which is roughly 2400, with 2400 / 60 = 40 smelters, is this an efficient setup or are there better ones

[brisk urchin]

smelters are not efficient

better to use refineries

[wet breach]

oh I'm not at that phase yet

still messing around in phase 2

refineries huh? alr I'll look into it

[vapid gorge]

they're efficient if they produce all the ingots you need

[vapid gorge]

there's multiple recipes for most ingots, they do different things and have different value depending on your goal and personal preferences

[wet breach]

basically I just want an all ingot belt that I can do whatever with, just wondering if there are any machineries I'm missing since I can't find a smelter mk2 or the sort

[vapid gorge]

honestly don't future proof, it's generally a waste of time as you won't know what recipes you want, or where you'll want to build ect ect

leave space to expand? building upwards helps with that. but that's about it

[wet breach]

hmm so it's a mindset thing

alr gotcha thanks

[vapid gorge]

it's more of a 'you don't know what you're going to need, and your design style and skill will change quickly'

[wet breach]

that's fair, so I should just make things when they're necessary and don't bother future proofing ya?

[vapid gorge]

yup. At most leave space to maybe expand manifolds lengthwise if you get faster belts and you want to build more there? but otherwise just keep going forward and learn

[brisk urchin]

all the ingots you need is irelevant if you can have more with just a little more efford

atleast when i want to use resorce nodes thats my rule

[vapid gorge]

no? setting your goal to what you have is pointless since you can always bring in all the ore to you anyway

completely arbitrary personal rule of yours that isn't a universal application like you were suggesting

[wind spade]

why would you want more if it's more than you need

just make the amount you need and save rest of resources for possible future use

[noble timber]

Refineries are boring

[unique cypress]

They're more interesting than smelters at least

[noble timber]

Why stick to just one? Do smelters, foundrys and refineries in a big system

[oblique hollow]

Mix and match for most fun

[frosty owl]

I once did an Iron Smelting setup with all refineries (pure Iron) and just 1 Smelter to take care of 30 ore/min leftover... Just once, but it was fun to design ^^

No foundries though

[lone igloo]

Which is better kinda leaning towards 1 or 3

[vapid gorge]

there's no single 'best' recipe for this. depends where you're doing it, with what other recipes and what volumes

all are useful

[wind spade]

depends what do you mean "better". As with all recipes it's basically "decide which resources you want to spend"

[wind spade]

also I think you're looking at a wrong wiki

[lone igloo]

which is wiki to look on?

[wind spade]

the official one?

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @wind spade

[vapid gorge]

an example, I might use caterium CBs with Caterium Computers, that way I could make comps with only cat and oil

or Silicon CB and Cat Computers to stretch out both the quartz and the caterium to build more comps

[magic island]

the only CB recipe I never use is Electrode. its gimmick is that it uses only Oil, but if you want to actually use the CBs for anything, you'll still need another resource. (ie, if you're making Computers from Caterium+Oil, you may as well use Caterium CBs instead of Electrode CBs)

the others all feel pretty comparable, and basically come down to what proportions of which resources you want to use

[unique cypress]

Same. Not only are oil-only CBs kinda pointless, because you cannot use them in anything that's oil-only, they're also expensive

I never use anything other than Cat CBs, but I could see myself using silicon if for some reason I didn't want to spend Cat on CBs.
Probably would never use default either, but at least unlike Electrode, I don't think it's a terrible recipe at least

[winged rune]

is there any savegame editor for satisfactory that allows me to copy and paste large areas of worlds (biome size blueprint or something) into other worlds?

[unique cypress]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

[winged rune]

thanks I've been meaning to check this out too

[mossy ibex]

hey so with priority pipes, I can make liquid favor one path by pointing it down. Does that still work with gas like rocket fuel?

[unique cypress]

make sure you don't use their production planner lol
(it's shit)

[mossy ibex]

which do you prefer?

[unique cypress]

for calculatations, I use Satisfactory Tools

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[mossy ibex]

cool yeah

[delicate cradle]

doing a playthrough to put all of everything to the max, making some fuel :>

oh im also makin a 2nd one of these on the west side of the world

:>

[mossy ibex]

that's... a bunch of fuel. Now turn the turbo into rocket with sloops and I think you'll end up with 15000 rocket fuel?

oh I missed the top part

so more like 150000 rocket fuel if you really go for it

you'd only need 14,400 fuel gens fulled OCed to burn it all

what is that? 9 Terrawatts?

might be enough for the next tier

[haughty barn]

you have infinite sloops or something?

[delicate cradle]

yeah its a modded save, i want my pc to catch fire when i load my save

:>

[haughty barn]

phase 5 in a minute

[delicate cradle]

;-;

[delicate cradle]

imma do sum funky shit rq in the planner, brb, but ill find out the max ammount of power i can obtain thru fuel

[unique cypress]

Pretty sure you don't need mods for that

[delicate cradle]

im taking my save into the calculator and just filling ind storage containers with sloops, it aint a vanilla save

[delicate cradle]

I AM GOING INSANE

if all resources needed were used, this is what could be made.

bit of a number

[lone igloo]

Prep to finish phase 3. Will take 100 minutes as I cannot be asked to setup multiple control units without a hoverpack lmao

[brisk urchin]

nearly 3 TW nice

[delicate cradle]

top left is the 3 tw all resources fuel thing i just showed, the top middle is versatile frame, 2 small identical setups are for fuel power plants(higher one's on the west coast, lower's blue crater) and the jumble of shit at the bottom makes computers, modular engines, n heavy mod frames. I will show the factory that makes all of this.

just gotta die first to get back to hub brb

[lone igloo]

What do you use to make those flowcharts?

[delicate cradle]

satisfactory modeler on steam

infinitely better than the web browser calculator one

[lone igloo]

Thanks now installing it

never knew there was one on steam lmao

[brisk urchin]

some say the opposite lol

[delicate cradle]

it does take some getting used to

[delicate cradle]

well, those people play spreadsheet simulator

and i dont wanna do that

[unique cypress]

Modeler is much closer to spreadsheets than Tools is lmao

[brisk urchin]

and here comes the arguing

[delicate cradle]

-# i will be absolutely doing that within the month i will not lie

[brisk urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/exploding-car-explode-cat-boom-bah-gif-5387928273689188008

[delicate cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-explode-cat-explosion-blushing-cat-nervous-explosion-shy-explode-gif-3123902237300160606

phase 3 factory, makes 49.76 assembly director systems pm, 24.88 heavy mod frames, 86,4 modular engines pm, 240 COMPUTERS pm, 124.4 auto wire, 240 versatile frame and about 50 frame drop :D

[open meadow]

hmmz abit of an odd output number, but i guess the inputs are clean xD, not sure if thats enough plates a min as an final product

[unique cypress]

what's wrong with the original numbers lmao

well, other than it using a ton of screws

[delicate cradle]

left's mod engines, right's assembler systems

[open meadow]

i guess now i actually just have 2 fabricators to make screws on 100%, get less rods and only 20 iron plates a min instead of 60 as an final product, since 60 iron plates to build with seems abit to much

20 plates 6.667 reinforced plates. 10 rods,5 cable and 20 wire a min as an first factory

[frigid maple]

this took me way too much time
and it works good enough

yes half the factory shuts down and starts again every few seconds but still

enough power for now

[craggy birch]

Im messing around in creative mode and the first thing i do is make a belt highway of 9 1200 belts
only 2 are being used

[tardy stream]

how many steel beams and steel pipes should I plan for with a 240 belt of steel ingots? half and half split of steel to both?

I do vaguely remember last time I needed a lot of pipes

[arctic willow]

if using default recipes, half and half is probably right - it'll come out to 30 beams and 80 pipes

[tulip fiber]

Does somebody has blueprint for 8 to 6 belt balancer ?

[wind spade]

Hook each belt to what it can feed 🙂 no need for balancers

[noble pine]

20 adaptive control unit per minute yayyy

[tulip fiber]

Thanks, but that’s not what I was asking for

[jolly creek]

8 -> 16 -> 12 -> 6

[light fox]

am i doing this extremely wrong
(basically turbofuel generation with modular engine as the byproduct)

or you could just say its a turbofuel+modular engine factory

should i be having this many decimals

help

[mossy ibex]

the decimals seem fine?

what's the problem?

[light fox]

thought i was doing something wrong

this seems really weird

not experienced with this many decimals tbh

[mossy ibex]

it just means you need to over or underclock your machines

[unique cypress]

don't even need to do that

round up and they'll figure themselves out

[mossy ibex]

sure, just overbuild for each step and deal with some yellow lights, it's fine

[light fox]

the turbofuel part is so tiny compared to the rest 💔

[unique cypress]

I mean it's inefficient AF so of course it's gonna be small

you could get 54 gens powered from 405 oil without even making turbofuel

[light fox]

isnt turbofuel more power tho

[unique cypress]

not if you make it this way

[light fox]

like power cost vs generation?

[unique cypress]

405 oil -> 54 gens, no turbo

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=RYmDP8wTB4ZAuNtGeOec

[light fox]

but wont turbofuel produce much more power for the same amount of oil

[unique cypress]

if you do this, sure
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=iFOICpqkGlOcdOW8OH1Z

[light fox]

so then for this regular fuel is better power?

[unique cypress]

I'm just saying you could get a lot more power from 405 oil

even without turbo

if you make fuel efficiently, and then turbo, it'll be even more

turbo's only advantage over regular fuel is the oil efficiency

so if you only care about that, then turbo is better than regular

but fuel is generally easier

[light fox]

didnt even know diluted packaged fuel existed tbh

so i just optimized it then

[light fox]

couldve done 420 right now without overclocks i just lowered to 405 to make things cleaner looking i gues

i have no idea what im doing its been so long since ive played

[unique cypress]

I can also suggest Stitched Iron Plate. It'll save you a bit of iron

[light fox]

i think ill be fine with iron for now at least

ive barely tapped any of them in my world

thank you balancer fanatic

[wind spade]

yeah, I'm just giving you an (imo) easier alternative

[tulip fiber]

I know, but I think it’s the only way to make upgrading the factory (aluminium in big quantities) easy once I unlock the next belts and miners. Plus, it’ll be easier to figure out how many machines I need to place now, so I can just hook them up later after upgrading the belts.

[wind spade]

eh, generally I wouldn't recommend to upgrade factories. If you unlock better miners/belts, just split it after miner to a separate location (if you need it in that location) or just build elsewhere. Much easier to work with imo. Factories that I build stay built and are never touched

[tulip fiber]

Honestly, I usually do the same — at most I just upgrade the belts from the last machine to the dimensional depot and that’s it. But this time I figured I’d try something different, and who knows, maybe it’ll work well. Especially now that it’s summer, I’m done with work, and I have plenty of time, so I can mess around like this.

[wind spade]

yeah, completely fair 🙂 as always, it's your save, I was just giving you some recommendations, but it's fine if you don't follow them 😉

[unique cypress]

I could probably make you one

Assuming it fits in a BP

Probably will in a mk3

Which belt tier?

And do you prefer it to be taller, wider or longer?

[tulip fiber]

mk 5

[tulip fiber]

i dont care to be honest

depends how high

[unique cypress]

8 stacked splitters I think is how high it'd go at max

Could do half as tall, but then it'll be twice as wide

[tulip fiber]

That’ll be perfect

And thank you so much for helping me. I was trying to get the hang of it, and I understand the schematic of how it works, but with more inputs/outputs, my head gets all mixed up.

[unique cypress]

Also, fair warning, there might (will) be clipping. If you want a definitely for sure no clipping design, I'll give you the diagram instead

Though maybe it'll be no-clip thanks to the new vertical splitters

I had one idea I wanted to test but had no reason to yet. Maybe that's a good balancer to test it on

[tulip fiber]

Okay, once again, thanks a lot for offering to help me

[unique cypress]

here you go

smaller than my previous attempt at an 8:6 lol

though the I/O layout is a bit less convenient I tihnk

[unique cypress]

the input is the stack of splitters and the output is the 4 mergers and 2 poles

didn't end up using vertical mergers after all

they would've made it like 50% taller

but probably like a foundation shorter (in length)

[tulip fiber]

Looks perfect

Got a schematic for it by any chance? Wanna understand it better so I don’t have to bug people for help next time lol

[haughty barn]

decimals get so, so much worse

[unique cypress]

I don't, though I could make one if you wanted

Though it would take longer to draw this fucker in draw.io than it took to design it lmao

If you pay attention to how it's built, you'll notice it's 8 1:6s stacked on top of each other and then 6 8:1s side by side

That's how you can build any arbitrary balancer

There are usually simpler and more compact designs for some, especially because this worked out so well because the 8:1 is the vertical stage

As you can imagine, doing a 5:1 vertically isn't nearly as easy

You could rotate it 90° to make the inconvenient stage horizontal, but if both input and output are inconvenient (like in a 5:7), you end up with spaghetti

Still, this method, in theory, works for absolutely any size

[devout ingot]

wait till you do turbo electric mortors

[haughty barn]

I stick with the default recipe

[wind spade]

decimals are just state of mind

with the right mindset you don't ever have decimals 😛

[unique cypress]

Numbers like any others. The production rates could be transcendental numbers and it would not change my building strategy one bit

Imaginary and complex outputs when?

[tulip fiber]

i have no idea what is happening but its working

[shadow wraith]

brooo just why

[tulip fiber]

?

[delicate cradle]

What.. IS this

[tulip fiber]

Belt balancer—for more info (honestly, I don’t really know what I’m looking at). Ask @unique cypress , he made it

[robust panther]

whats the max amount of power one can generate off without using convertors and using powerplants, i did the math and got to 1190000 off plutonium/uranium, but at least according to the calculator there isnt enough resources to use up all the plutonium waste

[granite mantle]

Ye the sam is a big limitation there

[wind spade]

Can just store the waste

[fallow siren]

you get more power by converting sam for more uranium than trying to recycle all plut waste into ficsonium

720 copper for 120 uranium

[wind spade]

Their message is literally "without convertors"

[fallow siren]

ik, im just saying what better use for those sam

storing plut waste is easy too, just have bp and you can get 1k+ hrs of it

[granite mantle]

Storing the waste isn't ideal on a server

[wind spade]

Why not?

[granite mantle]

Unless you make massive storages

But it will still fill up over time as you aren't even playing

[wind spade]

Only if that option is enabled

[granite mantle]

What do you mean

[wind spade]

There's option afaik to pause when no people are online

[granite mantle]

Not in control of that, its someone elses server
Plus we want it to always run cuz we want other stuff to build up like end game stuff with very slow production and coupons

[wind spade]

Ah, so you're playing idle game, not factory builder 🙂

[granite mantle]

Well everyone has their play style, i like to make slow production for end game stuff but produce all kinds of end game stuff in the same factory

Not everyone can leave their game on for ours and have other stuff to do

[wind spade]

well my point is that if you need to leave game on for hours, that means you haven't built enough production and should build more rather than afk 🙂

[light stirrup]

and heres my up hill to go to the top level

[vapid gorge]

yeah you've got it branched out into many manifolds. fluids often don't like that

[light stirrup]

should I combine the lower and up into one massive level then?

[vapid gorge]

wait , are there 2 floors of them too?

[light stirrup]

uhhh :\

[vapid gorge]

ok they super don't like branching manifolds over multiple floors

is it 1 pipe of 600 covering both floors?

[light stirrup]

yes I'm streaming btw if you want to take a look

[vapid gorge]

ah nah it's ok , should be a simplish fix

ok so the simplest way to fix this:

break up your fuel producers into 2 groups, one that will feed one floor, the other the 2nd floor

flood each manifold by underclocking a few gens on each floor

once it's flooded kick them back up

the fact that you'll be running much less than 600 in each pipe will mean you'll have more leeway and probably won't matter you've got the branches

or that you don't have a loop. probably

this is the least effort fix that will probably work

[light stirrup]

ok

so I dont want to be using the same branch that feeds the lower to also feed the upper I want to seperate feeds

[vapid gorge]

it's not that it's impossible to do this, but you'd probably need more work to get it working as is compared to just breaking it up into 2 sections

there's lots of things that are possible with pipes, it just depends on how much work you're willing to put into it and how reliably you can get it working

[light stirrup]

so junction it off like here and have a portion should I make a branch of 2 300?

[vapid gorge]

well my description was more about not merging all the fuel producers in the first place

you still can do this, if you do put a pump going each way right after the junction

[granite mantle]

for stuff that is only needed for building machines i would rather have it being produced by 1/min with minimal resource usage (leaving stuff for other bigger productions) it will run for a day and produce more then i will ever need, on the other hand having a 60/min of it that with using almost all the resources available in that area, even importing more things, it will fill the needed storage in an hour and just run sinking items for the rest of the game wasting resource nodes unless you repurpose them

i am not being lazy here, i just find it worth it to produce to much of end game stuff that is only needed for building and nothing else

[wind spade]

well there's also option of having e.g. 5/min which would be enough for your building needs without having to go afk 🙂

and practically all production is "only needed for building"

[granite mantle]

well we have a server that runs endlessly, i would rather put my focus on building 1/m of many different things than 5/m of one thing

[granite mantle]

well not all but most

[wind spade]

only other things are ammo/consumables and space elevator parts

[granite mantle]

also fuel and nuke stuff

[wind spade]

well yeah I don't count power

[granite mantle]

nuke production is literally one of the biggest possible factories

that uses almost everything

[wind spade]

that depends on how much you go overboard and which recipes you use

a decently sized nuclear with proper recipes doesn't really use much

[granite mantle]

conclusion is i dont find it worth having to much production rate of something that i really dont need much of

[wind spade]

I'm not saying to build much. I'm saying to build enough to sustain it without going afk 🙂 but if you insist on playing with non-stop running server which makes things on background 🤷

[granite mantle]

but i am not going afk, the server does it for me :)

[wind spade]

that still counts as afk production in my eyes 🤷

and obviously will have different balance than if the game is played "normally"

[granite mantle]

sure, i am just taking advantage of what i got, i probably would have more production rate if it was local game

[tiny leaf]

5800 rubber and 2400 plastic/min should be good enough for a while

i hope

[noble pine]

is making fuel with the fuel recipe worth it instead of turning heavy oil residue into fuel?

[oblique hollow]

Without alternate recipes, its a trade.

Heavy oil is a byproduct of rubber and plastic, so most of the oil gets spent on those and the fuel you get out is not that much

If you make fuel directly from oil, you get resin for rubber and plastic, so now you dont get as much rubber and plastic

You can just use both methods

[noble pine]

i mean i already have a place for rubber and plastic, and i wanna make a big power plant rn

30k megawatts

[unique cypress]

These are the costs of making 250 GW of waste-free nuclear power depending on the proportion of Ficsonium used

0 is sinking Plutonium

Costs from SFTools, all recipes except ore conversion enabled

Thanks discord for the embed 🙃

Will the image without text work?

Nope

I guess it doesn't like a 130 Mpx image

[wind spade]

Gigawatts 🙂

[noble pine]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1197426324055277610/1197816404381020211/image.gif

we ball

[frail sigil]

Woah 30k MW

[unique cypress]

*30 GW

[oblique hollow]

0.03 TW

[frail sigil]

3e10 W

[main thicket]

anyone knows how many batteries would 5 drones need to pretty much fly around the map each to bring uranium to the desert? just an estimate

[wind spade]

hard to say, usually best to build the route and see

[main thicket]

alright

just a super super estimate. would 80-90/min be enough?

[vapid gorge]

for 5? yeah def

[main thicket]

thx

[oblique hollow]

Probably overkill , but again hard to say precisely

[main thicket]

yeah i didnt know how many batteries i would need when i was making them and i ended up making 120/min

[magic island]

with that many batteries you will definitely have a lot of leftovers, which is fine! could use 'em for more drones, or truck fuel, or Supercomputers

[outer drift]

I imagine this has already been discussed, but:

is there any situation in which ionized fuel makes sense for anything other than for jetpacks? (also, the wiki doesnt show "Float time (tapping)" for ionized fuel. is there a reason for that? maybe ionized fuel isn't even good for jetpacks?)

I checked satisfactory tools, and tried to determine the theoretical max yields for every fuel type, as well as its overhead.

Not only can you theoretically produce more power from rocket fuel than ionized fuel, but the overhead of producing rocket fuel only causes ~4.64% in loss, whereas ionized fuel has a whopping 40.15% loss due to overhead.

The devs planned this game so well, so I have to assume they had a reason for doing this.

[unique cypress]

I mean it is a sink for power shards. that's about it

[fallow siren]

you will ended up using more power making all those power shards than making net positive with ionized fuel

their only good use is for jetpack fuel, really

[unique cypress]

and I guess drone fuel too

[magic island]

if you're producing power shards in a factory that's integrated with other production, you'll want a way to sink the shards and ionized fuel can do that

(but imo it's easiest to just have power shard production in a closed loop that can stop/start on its own)

[outer drift]

I've never used drones, so i didnt know they could use anything but batteries.

[magic island]

they used to require batteries but now they accept a variety of fuels

[fallow siren]

tbh idk about drone fuel since rf already a really good fuel type, 300/min alone can already fuel 100 drones

[outer drift]

i've seen a comparison video of the height and speed for the different fuels, so i know ionized fuel will let you fly really high, but can anyone speak to whether they feel it's worth using late game over liquid biofuel?

[unique cypress]

Power shards generate DMR without using any SAM. that's the only reason to sink power shards tbh

[outer drift]

anecdotally, what do you guys use for jetpack fuel very late game? (I just completed phase 4 for the first time)

[unique cypress]

either ionized or LBF

both last about as long, ionized is fast, LBF is stable

[fallow siren]

i just use ionized since i already automate power shards

ionized last as long as liquid biofuel, if you do small vertical boost

for hovering

[magic island]

LBF is mainly nice for stable hoverpack-esque floating early on before you have the hoverpack. it's the fuel of choice while building

for off-grid expeditions I prefer other fuels, Ionized being the best

[fallow siren]

i still prefer rocket for exploring

the vertical boost is insane

[outer drift]

so why do you guys think they added ionized fuel?
The dev's planning and design for this game is excellent, so i'm wondering what they were thinking when they added ionized fuel.

like, i imagine it wasn't an accident. they probably balanced it the way they did on purpose. I just don't understand why

[magic island]

It's just a fuel that's good for jetpacks and bad for powerplants

I think that's the very simple intent behind it

[unique cypress]

looking at ficsonium and ionized fuel, I don't think they were balanced

Like I don't see a point in spending dev time only to add something so barely useful

[outer drift]

what's wrong with ficsonium? like i said, i just completed phase 4 for the first time last night. never even attempted nuclear power.

[unique cypress]

It's allegedly a way to make nuclear wasteless, but so is sinking plutonium rods, and doing that is much cheaper and easier

plus ficsonium is so expensive you can't even de-wastify a large build due to running out of SAM

[outer drift]

If it's as bad as you say, then perhaps they've planned out future development / DLC that'll make it make sense?

[outer drift]

lmao good to know. that's dumb as hell.

[dusky dust]

A bunch of folks think Ficsonium is somehow busted. IMO it's perfectly fine, but it occupies a very specific niche. Its usecase is for players who 1) Want to burn Plutonium rods, and 2) Still want "clean" nuclear

Ficsonium's definitely expensive to produce (especially its SAM usage), but if you're a player who wants those two things, it's A+.

(If you don't want both of those things, then yeah, it's not worth your time)

As power-generation itself, it's pretty inefficient, but at least it's net-power-positive. :) The benefit is just getting all that extra power from Plutonium while remaining "clean"

[fallow siren]

even if ppl do burn plutonium rod, theyre so small in production that you can easily bin them and get 1k+ hours

just drone it to the edge of the map

[dusky dust]

Yeah, nuclear waste storage isn't a big deal (especially Plutonium waste, since it generates so slowly). But if you do want the confluence of "burn Plutonum" plus "clean," Ficsonium's your solution. :)

[magic island]

But if clean is what you want, just burning more Uranium and sinking more Plutonium is more of a net gain than burning Plutonium+Ficsonium

it might feel good to keep the process moving forward, but it's not actually more efficient than just doing more Uranium

[dusky dust]

Only if you don't mind throwing away all the Plutonium power that you're making.

I always feel like a broken record, but Ficsonium's there for people who want to burn Plutonium.

Like for myself, I'm making the Plutonium rods. I'm not gonna waste all that work and sink them. It's just throwing away too much power

So I'll either store the Pu Waste, or possibly later on convert it to Ficsonium for a "clean" solution

[outer drift]

i understand in theory why this is fine, but my software developer OCD hates this.
It raises a huge red flag that it means it can't run indefinitely (even though, practically speaking, you'll probably get bored of the map before it becomes an issue)

[dusky dust]

"Just process more Uranium" isn't a solution for someone who's in that mindset. You could also say "just make more Rocket Fuel"

[unique cypress]

which is why this is my point. they're both way too niche to bother spedning dev time on. it's like they wanted to add something that sounded cool, not bothering to check whether it's useful

[magic island]

regardless of whether it feels bad to "throw the Plutonium away", the math (when comparing the two "clean" methods) makes it better to toss it than burn it

[dusky dust]

I guess why it sticks in my craw is that it feels like everyone saying "Ficsonium is useless" just doesn't, like believe that there are people out there who both want to burn Plutonium and want clean nuclear.

[fallow siren]

can easily fix that ocd by not burning plut rod

[dusky dust]

Like: okay, maybe we're in the minority, but we exist. Ficsonium's the solution. It's great!

[fallow siren]

also not to mention

[dusky dust]

If you don't care about both of the prerequisites which make Ficsonium useful, then yeah, it's not worth it to you.

[outer drift]

most likely what i will do if i ever get around to nuclear.

[fallow siren]

you can use sam to convert copper for more uranium

[dusky dust]

But it's got a very intentional niche, and there are players for whom the niche is important.

[fallow siren]

720 copper > 480 baux > 120 uranium

[magic island]

I want clean nuclear and I want to do it in the most efficient way

I would love it if burning + processing plutonium were more efficient than sinking it, but it's not

[fallow siren]

you get more power with less sam compared to ficsonium

[unique cypress]

it also costs significantly less SAM per MW than Ficsonium

[wind spade]

"efficienct" can be defined as you wish

[magic island]

resource-wise, effort-wise, and net-power-wise

ficsonium loses on all fronts, unfortunately

[unique cypress]

it's also unlocked later lol

[dusky dust]

If I'm not using that SAM for anything else, who cares?

[unique cypress]

50 matrices cost 6k

[dusky dust]

I didn't even come close to exhausting the map's SAM with about half a TW of nuclear power (with Ficsonium) on my 1.0 save, and that's including all the non-Ficsonium SAM usage

[dusky dust]

You're the one who decided to make 50 matrixes in lieu of Ficsonium, though.

This goes back to my other point that I really don't mind that there are limitations to which late-game/optional things you produce. Like, yeah, if you go heavy into one, you might not be able to go heavy on another.

[unique cypress]

i wanted both tho

[wind spade]

except "resource-wise" depends on how you value which resources

[outer drift]

Personally, unless I was explicitly trying to produce as much power as possible, these are my requirements for power production, in order of priority:

1. more generation than consumption on average
2. no maintenance required (once it's set up, I don't have to go in and flush pipes or build more storage or something, even on an infinite timescale)
3. does not reduce the yield of my factory
4. more generation than max consumption
5. squeezes the maximum MW pure unit fuel possible

[dusky dust]

c'est la vie; that just does not bother me at all.

[dusky dust]

I was perfectly able to do both at the scales I decided on. It's only a problem when you start building "big," ie: intentionally pushing the limits of the map

And if you're building at that scale, then sure, there are limits. So it goes!

Anyway, I've got a meeting in three minutes and should've kept my yap shut again, so I'll skitter off after I say once again that just because you don't think something is worth it for you, doesn't mean it's not worth it for someone else

[unique cypress]

I wasn't really limited by the resources pre-1.0
like that's my issue. I could build more endgame shit before

[dusky dust]

If you want to 1) Burn Plutonium, and 2) have clean nuclear, then Ficsonium's great. If you don't want those things, then yeah, it sucks.

[dusky dust]

SAM also wasn't a real resource pre-1.0. :)

Okay, off I skitter!

[wind spade]

that has been said like 100 times already, but they still don't get it I guess 🤷

[wind spade]

pre-1.0 the game wasn't complete, so any comparison there is not relevant

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I should just shut up. I just hate their viewpoint being presented as fact to anyone else reading the chat, and feel like I need to represent the other view

[wind spade]

same here tbh

people already have so many "wrong" opinions about the game by listening to streamers and youtubers spew their opinions as facts, we don't have to add to it here

[outer drift]

btw, what goals do you guys have after completing phase 5? knowing me, i expect i'll probably get burnt out.

Off the top of my head, endgame goals i see people do are

• doing nuclear power
• maximizing sink points per minute
• maximizing power production

is there anything else people do?

[wind spade]

usually you just make your personal goal that's somewhere along the lines of what you've written. Most of the "maximise X" are not realistically possible, so if you want to finish your goal, I'd recommend setting it smaller and maybe getting another one if you finish it and still wanting to go further

as with many sandboxes, it's basically "do what you want" (which may include just quitting the game and doing something else 😉 )

[outer drift]

oh god yeah i know those are unrealistic.
I'm just trying to determine if there's a goal that'd interest me more than either trying to increase sink points, or building nuclear

[wind spade]

if you're that kind of guy, you can do some "nice" projects (e.g. statues, or design factories, or something like that)

[outer drift]

like, in other vaguely similar games what usually keeps me going is trying to scale up production of an item so that it'll allow me to do the next project.
the problem is a lot of the late game items aren't really needed to build stuff, so it'll be a challenge making me care enough to produce late game parts

I suspect i'll fixate on the sink. I'm very "score" motivated

[wind spade]

practically the only thing that can scale in this game is points/min

[unique cypress]

pre-1.0 one possible goal was "complete phase 4 every X hours", but now phase 5 is kinda cheap comparatively so you'd have to go down to minutes probably

[outer drift]

if you give me a clear way to maximize a 1 dimensional matric that reflects performance, i will obsess over it.

[unique cypress]

points and power

max points is ~500M/min, max power is 19.11 TW

[outer drift]

yeah, that's probably what i'll do.

though i typically also prefer abstract notions of wealth generation.
and by that, i don't mean like "gold" or something before someone suggests the statues in the shop. more like "oh, it's so nice that i always have a surplus of the things i need".

the 1 thing that worries me in this game, for the sake of my personal motivation, is that a lot of the high consumption items are way too easy to produce faster than you can consume (like concrete)

so i almost wish that higher tier parts like super computers were more important to building architecture or something so i'd feel more drive to produce more of them lol

[wind spade]

you can put them on shelves 😄

[frosty owl]

I ended up focusing on production efficiency and logistics, revisiting some of my most complex productions in an attempt to bring them to maximum efficiency with a spicy sushi challenge (ie: if the production wasn't perfect, the factory would clog). That, to me, became the road to "mastering" the game (or at least certain productions)

[silent shoal]

Has anything changed in the mechanics in the latest updates?

I feed 2 40 bullets into the Merger and it comes out MK4 into storage.
The 2 bullets in the input get stuck...

[deft lichen]

splitters and mergers have internal buffers of 9 items

[frosty owl]

Wasn't it 3 and 1 respectively (1 per output), changed from 9 in U8?

[silent shoal]

Interesting...
How does this affect my case?
Because the output currently has a mk4 belt and the inputs are still stuck and the efficiency in the constructors before the merge decreases

[frosty owl]

It sounds like there might be a piece of MK1 chocking the supposedly MK4 output.

[silent shoal]

you are right thanks

[wintry jewel]

hey, i just wanted to ask if anyone has any recommended ratios for steel beams:pipes production
edit: should prob clarify that the only alt recipes i currently have unlocked in this world aren't steel related

[haughty barn]

Iron pipes all the way

And the casting recipe can help with beams

[hollow elk]

I setup my Portal hub and enough Singularity Cores to run a dozen pairs. With that done, I felt like I had done everything I needed to do.

[still blade]

I'm not exactly sure where to post this, but I'm currently working on having a basic "starter" base with all the essentials up to steels. this is how I'm starting, and I dont feel like I'm using the space correctly. any tips on properly using factory space to fit machines? because i dont wanna end up just manifolding everything or having spaghetti

[wind spade]

don't build platform and try to fit machines
instead build machines and then encase them in a factory (if you want)

and what's wrong with manifolding?

[still blade]

takes too long to start with larger lines, and while it doesnt affect me yet, it'll become a habit later on

so might as well eliminate it now

[wind spade]

it starts instantly

it just doesn't work at 100%, which is hardly a problem since you can prefill it or leave it filling while doing something else

[still blade]

yeah but belts have to saturate for a bit, i remember having some coal plant in one of the open access branches that took around 30 minutes to start working 100%

[wind spade]

that's nothing

[still blade]

and about this, what do you mean encase? to just make platforms until all the machines fit?

[wind spade]

I mean that you just build machines first

no need to make a big platform and then think how to fit stuff in

[still blade]

but what about organizing it all

[wind spade]

well you can do that

[still blade]

so i start on dirt?

[wind spade]

no, on foundations

(unless you want to be on ground)

[still blade]

sorry if im a bit slow, but im not entirely getting it.

i just make foundations, make the factory lines for each thing on the foundations and extend the base each time i need a new line?

[wind spade]

generally I'd recommend building separate factories, not cramming everything into single factory

[still blade]

so using an analogy, you recommend i build small houses on a street rather than a single skyscraper?

[wind spade]

kinda

[rapid nimbus]

Okay boys who wants to run mathematics ?

[still blade]

i think i get it? but what about factory lines that share resources

[wind spade]

you may read e.g. https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency

[rapid nimbus]

I actually would suggest an hybrid. Rather than focusing the factory on present times, build it future proof. Do the annoying load balancing, and prepare the belts for expansion

Did this for my power plant and holy hell the extra 5 hours of annoying logistics saved me so much time down the line

[wind spade]

I would heavily recommend to NOT future proof

unless you exactly know what you'll do in the future, how much you'll produce, etc. (which means you've planned your entire playthrough from start), it's imo much better to build just what you need now

[still blade]

so my main takeaway from this is:

• dont bunch up factories
• if you do bunch up factories, dont cram them in the same building and try to make them independent

how do i handle storage in the early game then? for example, my caterium production line is quite far from the rest of my factory lines, do i belt the products over to a "mall" or keep it all stored in the satellite factory?

[wind spade]

dimensional depots are very useful for this

[still blade]

...early game

[wind spade]

if you don't yet have them (or think that they are too OP), central storage is usually the way

[rapid nimbus]

I’d like more about your opinion @wind spade

[wind spade]

depots can be done relatively early game

[wintry jewel]

what part of "the only alt recipes i have unlocked aren't steel related" did you not understand?

[still blade]

i dont even have access to SAM yet and i saw that they need a lot of mercer spheres to be fully optimal, so... again, do i just belt it all to central storage?

[wind spade]

as for the ratio - it depends on what you'll build in the future. So either don't build ahead at all (I recommend this), or just keep it at ingots and process it in the amounts you need when you find out how much you need

[wind spade]

"optimal" is not really a thing. SAM can be accessed as soon as you find it (through MAM). And as I said, in other case, central storage is the way

[rapid nimbus]

I’m not blindly future-proofing
I know exactly what I’m building: 100 reactors, 1000 waste/min handling, full acid loops, and expansion space. With nuclear, “build only what you need now” means tearing half the plant apart later. I’d rather do the layout once than rebuild an irradiated mess twice.

Also. Future proofing means your logistics is already ready for balanced scaling. Meaning you won’t have to do any kind of rerouting until a long time later
And even then, you’d already maximize one’s efficiency so just building a double

[wintry jewel]

well it's just going into storage for future use and i just want a rough idea of the ideal ratio

[still blade]

i think i get it. it'll take me a while to redo it all, but I'll work on it. thanks greeny

[wind spade]

Also. Future proofing means your logistics is already ready for balanced scaling. Meaning you won’t have to do any kind of rerouting until a long time later
And even then, you’d already maximize one’s efficiency so just building a double
if I mine 120 iron and process it, I know that factory will always only need 120 iron, so I don't see a reason to expand the production in the future

[wind spade]

well there's no "ideal" ratio, it all depends on how much you build of which buildigns

[wind spade]

(keep in mind that what I'm suggesting is just one way to play and if you don't like it, you can play any different way)

[still blade]

fair but ive seen many people try a megabase setup, only do to satellites later on

[wind spade]

yeah, megabase is generally not recommended for similar reasons I've mentioned above

usually if you want to go megabase, I'd recommend planning the whole build ahead of time (which is not always possible, especially if you're new and don't know what you'll see in the future)

[rapid nimbus]

On that I fully agree. Unless you know 100% of the production lines. Megabase is the synonym of insanity.

[still blade]

also just saying, my "automated" power was a double-sided manifold of 16 biomass generators with solid biofuel, and even after dismantling the production line and automating coal, the biomass is still somehow running on internal stacks alone

is biomass really that op

[rapid nimbus]

The point of future proofing isn’t guessing, it’s building a backbone that can handle full capacity the moment you decide to scale. If the logistics, power, and throughput are already sized for max output, then overclocking or expanding is just a switch flip, not a teardown. Building “just enough” only locks you into ripping apart your own work later.

I build my stuff with 100% clock speed and then, only then I overclock to the amount I need.
But the belting is already set up for a 250% capacity. So when you need let’s say more iron. Because you added another steel production, you already have all of that available.

At least that’s my philosophy

[wind spade]

if I build "just enough", I don't have a reason to rip it down or expand, because it's "just enough" 🤷

if I need more, I build different factory

[rapid nimbus]

For your nuclear power plant. You need to expand. You just make a second one all over again?

[lone igloo]

total amount inv space in 1.1? 80 or 81?

[wind spade]

if I didn't build a big enough one in the first place? yeah. But usually I'd build nuclear at once (my "don't future proof" was mostly aimed at production of items, not power - for power I usually build more than I need currently)

[unique cypress]

78 iirc

[rapid nimbus]

Well once my nuclear power plant will be fully completed I’d like to show it to you

And it won’t be for a loooooong while 🤣

100 reactors at 250% at final stage

[lone igloo]

oh nice, because I was told 80-81 and I got 78 I was wondering where the last +3 comes froms but no where. Low-key they need to add +3 back to 81 as it would make perfect 9x9 grid and not be missing 3 slots my OCD hurts

[unique cypress]

81 was the max pre-1.0

don't ask me why we have less now

[wind spade]

because DDs

[lone igloo]

idk but I want 81 back xD

or 72 for perfect grid

[wind spade]

with DD you practically don't need much inventory space anyway

[unique cypress]

I SCIMed the last 3 slots

[lone igloo]

I will probably do that to ngl

btw later for phase 4 when I need to make Modular Engines is it better to flood the manufactures with smart platings for manifold or use balancers as atm doing waiting on phase 4 but smart platings take forever to manifold what would be better idea. Just a question I want some opinions.

[wind spade]

"better" depends on your preferences
do you want to balance it but have it work instantly?
or are you fine with a few minutes with decreased efficiency %, but not having to deal with balancers?
or do you want to prefeed?

your choice 😉

[unique cypress]

I use 1 machine per item when making space elevator parts

all slooped and overclocked

handfed items I have automated

[surreal tartan]

Having a bit of a issue with my iron factory 6 nodes running at 480 each node is running into 16 smelters all were running at 100% and when I added my constructors in and add my assemblers in now I am having a issue nothing is running at 100% now should I start over and add more machines the constructors can't get the the material out fast enough and if I add a awesome sink it screws with everything else I need help please

[lone igloo]

So what is your goal when you finish all the phases? I want to see what goals I can come up with when finishing all phases

[unique cypress]

max nuclear usually

sometimes just some points/min target

[haughty barn]

all of it

[unique cypress]

yeah, not having all recipes unlocked is unconceivable

[dusky dust]

@lone igloo But yeah, in the end I generally just recommend embracing the not-whole-numbers thing; it doesn't tend to be too worth the effort

You might end up with a nice "clean" output rate of a whole number per min, but then you see that one or more of your inputs is at some non-whole-number rate and you'd have to clock that differently instead, etc

[lone igloo]

I mean the machines eventually balance them selves out right

[dusky dust]

So long as machines are being fed as much (or more) material as they need, then yeah, they should end up running 100% of the time

Barring implementation details like fluid loopbacks and such, if those were built out in fragile ways

[lone igloo]

so in theory if machine need 2 HMF and making 2.??? Per/Min it would eventually overflow?

[dusky dust]

Yeah, if you're feeding a machine that needs 2/min HMF with a manufacturer making 2.813/min, the HMF-producing manufacturer would eventually start going idle periodically

[manic atlas]

you could just underclock your manufacturer

[lone igloo]

but that would take a while tho right

[dusky dust]

In that specific case, I'd almost certainly be underclocking the HMF-producing manufacturer so that it produces exactly 2/min, though (as Kartabass beat me to. :)

[manic atlas]

f.e. put "2" into the desired output and it will adjust the overclock percentage automatically

[lone igloo]

yeah IK just speaking some things theory bs. I'm currently waiting on few things to be done anyways might aswel see what things I can ask.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, would take a bit. It'd be producing 0.813/min more than it needed to, and HMFs stack to 50. So maybe an hour or so for the input buffer to fill up, and a bit more for the beltspace inbetween. :)

(And then, I suppose, another hour or so for the HMF-producing manufacturer's output buffer to fill up, before it started going idle occasionally)

[lone igloo]

SOLUTION->Smart splitter set to overflow :). Thats what I do 99% of time lmao

[dusky dust]

(that's assuming a single manufacturer belting directly into a single machine, of course)

Yeah, that's a possibility. Though for something in the middle of a production line, I'll basically always just clock the machines appropriately so everything's producing exactly what it needs to; I tend to only overflow-to-sink when the final product is heading into a storage bin or whatever

[lone igloo]

So going on this topic of perfect items and like balancers. Why do you think the programmable splitter is so DOG SHIT. and why wont devs make it be so I can pick the amount of items to send each way?

ITS IS TIME 🙂

[grand lark]

Because you can just calculate the amount of inputs you make and thus are on the belt, using any less would mean not being 100% efficient and then ADA gets mad /s

[dusky dust]

This may feel like an unsatisfying answer, but re: why wont devs make it be so I can pick the amount of items to send each way, the main reason is just because that's a problem that the devs want players to have to solve. Game design, basically

It pushes folks towards building manifolds and such

[lone igloo]

it makes sense yes but programmable splitter is such nieshe thing that after watching few videos most people just dont use it and only 1% of players do.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, Programmable is definitely niche -- anything you can do with a Programmable you could do with a series of Smarts + Mergers instead

Its main usecase is space-saving for folks doing sushi processing. If you are doing that, then they're quite handy because your processing can take up a much smaller footprint

Though arguably the best feature of the Programmables is just that they look cool. :)

[lone igloo]

ahah

Sushi belts belong in factorio not Satisfactory

[dusky dust]

Eh, they're fine in this game too. Can make some real clean-looking Manufacturer-feed setups

And if you're a weirdo (like myself) who continues to enjoy building Central Storage, sushi can simplify those designs greatly

[lone igloo]

I guess so that works too. I want to build a central storage this save, so maybe I will get to use sushi belts in Satisfactory

anyways thanks for keeping convo while I was waiting I've learnt few new things 🙂 Time to go make hoverpack and progress in phase 4 for 5th time...

[unique cypress]

sushi can be done in SF too. it just needs careful control or overflow handling. but you can't make automatic, dynamic adjustments like you can in factorio

[quiet wasp]

how would you rate my first ever try at making hmf?

4.194/min

[mossy ibex]

7/5

it works it works

[lone igloo]

ngl this feels manditory xD

[tulip fiber]

Hey i found this blueprint on the interned and i wanted to make my own version BUT game does not let me clip one smelter into another , any advices ?

[unique cypress]

pretty sure you can't without mods or save editing

[tulip fiber]

That’s what I thought because of how cursed it looks, but I wanted to ask anyway

thanks

[dusky dust]

It's so good. Quick little setup into a Depot and then you never have to worry about making portable miners again

One of my favorite 1.0 changes; pre-1.0, we didn't have the Depot, and portable miners didn't stack, so it was always either spend half your inventory space lugging the damn things around, or just make them onsite when you needed them (which IMO was the far better solution). Just a little bit of needless busywork.

(Also, prior to 1.0, the automatable version wasn't available until Manufacturers, and was more expensive)

[neat surge]

My friend loves to load balance and he is doing this (the 1k is not real it is just his way of saying it is fine)

@shadow hornet

[shadow hornet]

yeah its me, i had some annoying decimals so got rid of them by multiplying, the numbers on the schema are 84x the actual flow

[wind spade]

why not just manifold

[shadow hornet]

i refuse.

[wind spade]

or direct input

[shadow hornet]

id need 2 miners, mk2 and mk1, instead of one mk2 this way, so im just saving a caterium source by calculating for 15 mins xd

[wind spade]

well no, you manifold miner and then do direct input 😛

[shadow hornet]

well yes but watching the machines flow with no buildup is a different kind of dopamine hit when you put this kind of work in

thats the actual reason in the end xd

[lone igloo]

I want to play the game but I cant as its like 30c rn and sweating balls and cant think in this heat

LMAO

[mossy ibex]

I predict this question will cause a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, but what's the move for fluid trains in terms of efficiency?

packages or tankers?

[neat surge]

Packages

[fallow siren]

packaging fluid will give you more slot per freight, which is most ppl do

but using fluid car is fine as well

[unique cypress]

Packaging is more efficient, but only if you load the empties back onto the same train, into the same wagons, using a 2nd station

If you use a second train or a second set of wagons, both options are basically the same

[mossy ibex]

oh good, more stations, I love these stations, they are not giving me any hemorrhoids at all

[unique cypress]

Unless you're moving a gas, then packaging is always better

[mossy ibex]

ok cool thanks!

[tender sleet]

If I have a question about my pipe setup—nothing advanced compared to what I can see other people asking about—would it be better to ask in here or #1038092680493801533? This is my first time unlocking T5–6 and I'm having trouble setting up my refineries (Wet Concrete).

[delicate cradle]

Small turbofuel powerplant update

[delicate cradle]

just stuff ice in your pants you'll be fine

[tropic flower]

How can I properly do this? I just got a cast screw recipe and bolted iron plate alt recipes and I wanted to redo my factory that makes reinforced iron plate, rotor and smart plating

[light fox]

just realized if i finish this fuel facility of mine itll generate 2x as much power as my entire grid does already

its so peak

[wet breach]

manifold cope or balance hell, fine tune the ratio and you'll get an even number

[light fox]

is this a bad idea

[haughty barn]

I believe in hand feeding supremacy for all but phase 5

[light fox]

just used an alternate iron ingot recipe, talk about optimization

i can just get all of that stuff from that one main base area in the northern forest

[devout ingot]

quick question nitro rocket fuel or rocket fuel

[fallow siren]

what do you want from either alt

both has significant trade off

[devout ingot]

more rocket fuel but that means a ton more nitrogen used or more oil if i use the regular

[fallow siren]

nitro uses more sulfur and nitrogen but very simple production line

while with default recipe you can save sulfurs and nitrogen, in cost of more complexity with turbo fuel

[devout ingot]

i got a big model i could share but it has like 3k nitrogen left unless i use sam

i know the basics behind it

[fallow siren]

well i already tell you about both, up to you which recipe your prefer

[devout ingot]

yea probably regular i cant really afford more nitrogen/ sulfur for rocket fuel with the current model that has like 400 uranium power plants lmao