math-and-meta

[ebon cobalt]

elts and mergers

[kindred carbon]

54 refineries

[ebon cobalt]

let me reload it maybe

[lyric belfry]

im not in the loop. but i see screws in the screenshot.. you sure your current belts can handle the desired throughput?

been bumping into this in the beginning a few times

[kindred carbon]

I’m doing a different recipe, using the alternate heavy residual oil

[fallow siren]

its the same alt

also, its 5333.333% clock speed, not a round 5400%

[kindred carbon]

Oh sorry I rounded it up

[ebon cobalt]

the problem was that the mk2 belt was moving at mk1 speed but all belts mk2 - a reload to previous save fixed for some reason

[fallow siren]

if you clock them all up to 133.3333%, you will get a nice 1:1:1:1 ratio

it also allows an even more compact dpf setup

[kindred carbon]

Don’t have many power shard unfortunately

[lyric belfry]

i just looted like 200 today 😂

packaged bio fuel.. jetpack.. get somewhere really high and then take out that tracking device

i was actually looting harddisks.. slugs was found on the way.. theres a few spots where theres 5-6 purple slugs at one place

that nuclear forrest has a slug/sphere/slope on almost every tree.. and for every tree that has none, there will be a tree having 5 slugs

[fallow siren]

spire coast is the best spot to hunt for slugs

especially purple slugs

[lyric belfry]

is that all in the west? i think thats were i was today.... you can see in the online map theres two thick trunks of splattered purple slugs across the map

like i unlocked an achievement about being on the highest platform close by the many slugs i found today

[fallow siren]

spire coast is north

[lyric belfry]

so west of nuclear forrest?

[kindred carbon]

I almost died trying to collect a purple slug lol

[lyric belfry]

rarely happened since i switched to biofuele

[opaque quartz]

Are you slooping your shard production from slugs?

[kindred carbon]

This entire chain produce 3200 fuel from 1200 oil right?

[lyric belfry]

well.. now thats smart.. im not. but im also new to slopes.. i did ignored them in the beginning because i started playing at update 5. when there was slopes and spheres but without function,

[kindred carbon]

I’ll need 160 power generators, idk how I’ll build all of them

[opaque quartz]

Research production amplification- set up a constructor w a sloop and you’ll get double the shards from your slugs

[kindred carbon]

I don’t think I even have the space, I built my refinery set up ontop of the lake, so I guess I build up a second platform for the power generators?

[opaque quartz]

Especially valuable for purple slugs

[lyric belfry]

but i think i havent even looted spire coast too much.. ah.. wait.. if it starts at the bay area thats central but not all the way north, then in fact i scratched it today

[opaque quartz]

All my diluted fuel setups have the generators on a second floor

[kindred carbon]

Yes 1 purple slug makes 10 power shards

[kindred carbon]

Do I need pumps for this? Refineries are really tall and the second floor needs to clear them

[lyric belfry]

i wasnt thinking about that

i think i should slope my biofuel production as well then as its also handcollected

[lyric belfry]

allow yourself to just throw a new facility having only refineries next to your main one and then connect or integrate them later

[kindred carbon]

I sloop stuff like heavy modular frames for now, and sometimes screws lol

[lyric belfry]

with steel screws i dont need to sloop those 😂

[opaque quartz]

Yes you will need pumps to go up a floor

[kindred carbon]

Well the problem is I’m pretty much out of space, once I pave over the entire lake I’ll have some space for water extractors and the rest will be for refineries

[lyric belfry]

im following a more or less strict rule to slope and overclock from the bottom to top.. hence start at power generation, then miners, etc....

[opaque quartz]

A single mk2 pump should be enough to go up one floor assuming you build it close to the height of the refineries

[kindred carbon]

Oh yea I forgot about mk2 pumps, they do 20m right?

[wind spade]

sloops are best on the end, not start 😛

[kindred carbon]

I’m slooping steel screws lol

[lyric belfry]

depends on the facility, doesnt it

[opaque quartz]

Mk2 pumps add 50m headlift

[lyric belfry]

as i can slope a constructor for much cheaper

[wind spade]

eh, rarely. Given that slooping last step practically sloops all the previous steps

[kindred carbon]

Not permanently obviously, just when I need to hand feed stuff

[lyric belfry]

thats generating more than mk5 belts can handle? 😂

thats why i stopped sloping until i can transport them

[kindred carbon]

Let me check

[lyric belfry]

as fasr as the ui tells its always just 2x

taking 1 slope for the constructor and 2 for assembler etc

also when you put only 1 slope it says 1.5 in assembler put next slope says 2x

thats not multiplication

[wind spade]

yeah, but f.e. if you sloop manufcaturer with 4 sloops, it's equal to slooping all the machines that feed the manufacturer

[kindred carbon]

Yep it saturated my mk4 belt with no OC

[wind spade]

you double the end product either way

but the more "later" the sloop is, the more "coverage" it gets of what it sloops

[lyric belfry]

ah.. you consider exclusive material flows only

understood

[kindred carbon]

I’m waiting for a sloop duplication glitch I want to sloop everything

[wind spade]

yeah, well slooping is practically only for making more materials

[lyric belfry]

if you however have a big iron plate production, your sloped recipe will drag more iron plates from your storage than it would otherwise.. now when not all those iron plates are dedicated for the final product, your calculation doesnt add up at all

so in that specific case, yes put it at the end

[opaque quartz]

Just edit your save to give yourself a crate full of sloops if you want to cheat. Or turn on advanced game settings

[wind spade]

I would never feed machines from storage

storage is always final destination

[lyric belfry]

doesnt have to be storage

point being is non exclusive for your final product

[wind spade]

well if I sloop a step, I obviously calculate the doubled requirements and build those requirements according to the slooped machine(s)

[lyric belfry]

wait

we do a mistake.. thjeres no increased input requirements with sloping

[kindred carbon]

True

[lyric belfry]

ima think through this again 😂

[opaque quartz]

You are confusing slooping and overclocking

[wind spade]

I meant the doubled output

[lyric belfry]

ye we both did. i just realized

like greeny and me

[opaque quartz]

greeny is 100% correct in everything he said

[lyric belfry]

prolly right the.. you cant slope power generation, can you.. so my logic cant apply there

i mean you can slope power gernation material but not the generator

[opaque quartz]

You can’t sloop generators but you can sloop fuel production

Again, why slooping the last machine in your production chain is the highest yield

[lyric belfry]

ye ye.. just saying my bottom to top logica cant be applied then as slopes only increase power consumption.. in fact practicall8y saving materials down the tree, contrary to what i thought at first

[opaque quartz]

For example, if I’m making ballistic warp drives, the last step is a manufacturer which produces 1 BWD/min

[lyric belfry]

in fact that scratches n idea i had before

[wind spade]

if you sloop that manufacturer, you essentially double your entire factory

[lyric belfry]

which is to slope and then to undercloci

saving physical material

[wind spade]

if you sloop a smelter at the start, you only double that smelter

[opaque quartz]

Combining sloops with overclocking is powerful too (but also power hungry)

[lyric belfry]

not when underclocking

[fallow siren]

250% slooped PA says hello

[opaque quartz]

Because sloops are so limited, you want to maximize how much they get used

[lyric belfry]

ye im kinda following my prijciple by sloping all my power generation producers

[opaque quartz]

In the previous example, a BWD manufacturer running at 250% makes 2.5/min, but slooped will make 5/min while still only requiring four sloops for one machine

[lyric belfry]

but i think i rather put a few slope power generators

as that should require less slopes

for power GW

[opaque quartz]

You can’t sloop power generators

[lyric belfry]

i know

[fallow siren]

you mean overclocking?

[lyric belfry]

but there is an alien power generator

which cost 10 slopes.. now im having currenlty like 20 or more slopes in my fuel setup

take those out build them alien power generators instead, should be better by now

[brisk urchin]

can you build multiple alien power gens?

[opaque quartz]

APAs are more powerful when you have a higher base power production as it is a percentage

[lyric belfry]

yes.. hence 'by now'

[opaque quartz]

Max is 10 APAs as there only 106 sloops on the map

And you need a few to unlock all the MAM research

[brisk urchin]

dont they regen like slugs and spheres?

[lyric belfry]

i put them slopes into fuel production first as them 10% wasnt doing that much

thats different now

[opaque quartz]

Slugs, spheres, and sloops do not regenerate on the map

[lyric belfry]

slugs generatre from doggo

[fallow siren]

tbh 1 APA should be enough especially if you automate alien matrix

[lyric belfry]

i mtalking putting them slopes into fuel production vs doing that

its an explicit comparison that ignores every other option momentarily

[opaque quartz]

But yes you can get more slugs from doggos but spheres and sloops are hard limited unless you cheat more in

[sand nova]

speaking about stuff regenerating was there ever a time when enemies did not respawn

i swear i remember them not doing that on my last playthrough and it was a lot nicer

[opaque quartz]

Building factories disables enemy spawn points

[fallow siren]

that exactly what happen in my current save, all enemies stop spawning even if said area doesnt have powered machines

when it should

[sand nova]

one of my factories has some hatcher spawns right outside of it that are in the middle of a conveyor line and ive killed them like 4 times

Inconvenient

[fallow siren]

in my save, those hatchers are permanently gone somehow after i killed them

they no longer spawn

its not just hatchers, its all enemies

[opaque quartz]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Creatures

Read the section on “spawning”

[lyric belfry]

i just disabled aggressive enemies... but also for me, once i build something where they spawn, theyre gone

[brisk urchin]

i swear they do, is it possible that they regen only because of some mods i have?

[lyric belfry]

have you built a foundation atop?

[opaque quartz]

There was a bugged patch early in 1.0 that regenerated all of them, which was not intentional

[brisk urchin]

no im on 1.1 and it still does

[opaque quartz]

Other than that, no. Might be your mods idk

[brisk urchin]

because i dont know any mod that regens them

[opaque quartz]

It is not intended behavior for them to regenerate at all

[lyric belfry]

when i build my fuel facility, some spitters were strolling my foundations as i hadnt killed them yet (theyre peaceful anyway).. but it looked really unfamiliar to see them walking on foundations

[brisk urchin]

bruh, ok

[opaque quartz]

Sloops in particular are so OP that they didn’t want them to be unlimited

Spheres are whatever, there’s more on the map than you practically need

[vapid gorge]

updates often refresh items in the map

[lyric belfry]

only updates and all the uploaders you need, no?

[opaque quartz]

Slugs as well, since you can make synthetic power shards in phase 5

[brisk urchin]

no ive collected like one sphere multiple times

[vapid gorge]

updates refresh spheres and slugs ect.

[brisk urchin]

i updated only once by now

[lyric belfry]

i mean how sure are ou about that? 😂

[vapid gorge]

but they absolutely do not regenerate under normal circumstances

[opaque quartz]

There’s 298 spheres on the map, you need about 100 to max out all research. That leaves enough for nearly 200 uploaders

[brisk urchin]

p sure

[lyric belfry]

p as in pretty?

[brisk urchin]

ye

[lyric belfry]

your nickname should tell you what i think of 'pretty sure'

[brisk urchin]

man idk i think its a mod

[opaque quartz]

Again there was one patch in the 1.0 lifecycle that definitely did respawn everything but it was not deliberate

[brisk urchin]

its german for mathematician, wym

[fallow siren]

is your save from 1.0, cuz some update did bring back all the collectibles in the map

[lyric belfry]

das du als mathematiker verdammt nochmal nicht 'pretty' sure sondern 'sure' sein solltest 😂

[opaque quartz]

It has not happened in 1.1

[brisk urchin]

._.

[brisk urchin]

yeah ig thats a reason good enough

ill call it a day

[opaque quartz]

Anyways regarding spheres I have dozens in storage that I’ve collected idly while looking for other resources that I have no use for. My research has long been maxed out and I have plenty of uploaders for everything

[kindred carbon]

Is inventory infinite in uploaders?

[opaque quartz]

No. Max is 5 stacks when fully researched

[kindred carbon]

Of each item? That’s not too bad tbh

[fallow siren]

5 stack max, but you can add more depot for more upload speed

i have 1200/min upload speed of concrete

more than enough

[opaque quartz]

A depot uploader has the same footprint as a storage container so you put them on top of your container at the end of each production line and connect w a belt lift

[hexed topaz]

Can someone help me out with a turbo blend fuel issue I have

[unique cypress]

#1038092680493801533

[unique cypress]

I have 10 uploaders and it's still not enough

[opaque quartz]

I’ve yet to use vertical splitters in 1.1, was thinking of trying to stack multiple uploaders on a single storage container and see if that works

[unique cypress]

it does

[opaque quartz]

Noice

[kindred carbon]

1200/min upload speed basically means infinite inventory lol

[opaque quartz]

You’d be surprised

A blueprint of a 6x6 foundation floor burns through concrete incredibly quick

you need tons of floor space when building nuclear, in particular

[unique cypress]

180 concrete per bp

you can easily place multiple per second

[wheat sedge]

Not really once you use a patter of something that uses concrete

I have a concrete bp that I had to place multiple at once and they cost each 2k concrete

[kindred carbon]

Yea but you can set up for this beforehand, have some containers full of concrete nearby

[opaque quartz]

Sure, but for dimensional inventory the point is that having multiple uploaders becomes necessary when laying down lots of foundations at once

Otherwise you have to build, wait, build, wait

[leaden rover]

how much Aluminum do i need for Phase 4 and for the future?

[vapid gorge]

just going up the tiers? not much
your own personal projects? up to you

it's a sand box.

[leaden rover]

of course but i want to future proof a little

[vapid gorge]

future proofing is a fools errand.

just process a node or two and move on

[kindred carbon]

480/min pipes can’t slosh right?

8 lines merged into one, then split into 24 fuel generators

[wind spade]

all pipes can (and probably will) slosh

the question you're probably asking is "can the slosh affect flow", to which answer is "depends, but at this rate probably not"

[kindred carbon]

Oh alr that’s great news

[oblique hollow]

Im not sure what you assume slosh is and what it will do to your factories

But it certainly is not something like "the evil monster that ruins stuff"

[bitter grail]

On SCIM or Satisfactory Tools, is there a way to calculate how much of an output you can make from a base resource? (Like determining if you get X amount of iron from your mines how many reinforced iron plates you can make?)

[oblique hollow]

Thats what the option "maximize" is for

At least on SF tools

[unique cypress]

do note that it'll tell you how much the max is and that's it

[bitter grail]

Thank you! I’m still figuring out how to best use these calculators and didn’t notice that option honestly

[unique cypress]

if you want a properly optimzed plan, you need to paste the output rate back into items/min mode

items/min optimizes for raw resources, maximize doesn't unless it needs to

[hollow arrow]

Hey is there an expert on making good blueprints out there with a tips and tricks video. Im pretty well versed with them, but if there are advanced tips they would be appreciated.

[brisk urchin]

for example this one

ive collected this one 4 times already

[opaque quartz]

🤷‍♂️

Must be one of your mods then

[brisk urchin]

i dont think so

[opaque quartz]

Idk, your game is bugged then. This is definitely not intended behavior

[brisk urchin]

lol

[kindred carbon]

This shouldn’t cause any issues right? I have 2 overlocked to 233% (all others are 200%) into pipes that all should balance at 480/min

I added the second junction to balance everything out, or at least that’s how I think it will work and I hope I’m correct here lol

I guess I should put valves or downgrade the secondary pipes to mk1?

[wheat sedge]

When you're talking about pipes, everything is unexpected

personally I always feed pipes vertically because that generally solves all problems

so I'd bring the pipes from the extractors up first and then down to connect them all

[lyric belfry]

is it causing issues? if not i wouldnt worry too much

[kindred carbon]

Haven’t tested it lol, I won’t have much time to test since i have like 15 minutes of backup power

[wheat sedge]

I usually do this

terrible drawing by the way

[oblique hollow]

Why connect it all into one big network? If you want 480/min just get 4 extractors.

You are not doing yourself any favors by turning what could be small, easy to troubleshoot pipe networks into a giant interconnected mess

[unique cypress]

yeah, keep pipe setups as simple as possible

[lyric belfry]

my point is, you will prolly always find someone who seemingly has some improvements.. but they might as wel just oversee something else.. hence if i was use id only come back if there was any issues (now or in the future) that i cant solve/explain myself

[wheat sedge]

I had a problem with my blenders because the pipe should be outputting 600 turbofuel p/m, but it was only outputting 550 and the last blender was somewhy overflowing

[wheat sedge]

I did this and it worked perfectly

now no more overflow and it outputs 600 p/m

[oblique hollow]

Thats more luck than knowing what was wrong and fixing it

Not the best advice

[kindred carbon]

That’s exactly what I’m doing, no? I have 13 extractors into 480 lines, but two of them are overclocked slightly to compensate for a missing 1/3 of a water extractor. The connected lines are there for balancing the output

[wheat sedge]

No, I've actually found that dragging fluids down a pipe actually works way better than just connecting it horizontally or from down up

[oblique hollow]

Thats not the same

[wheat sedge]

generally when I connect it from down up it always end up with problems

[oblique hollow]

Why balance them all

There is no benefit to this.
Only downsides

[kindred carbon]

Because 480 lines split perfectly into 8 packegers, what solution do you propose for this?

[lyric belfry]

you basically want to look at how many liquid the recipe uses for one build... like not per minute but the total amount for one print..add that up for each facility .... after that amount tops the amount that fits within the pipes connecting them facilities youd bring in a backup pipe

[oblique hollow]

2 extractors at 200% merged into a mk 2.
Nothing more
And you do that like... 6 or so times. Depending on how many 480/min pipes you need

[kindred carbon]

That’s the thing, I need 13.33 extractors for my recipe

I need 3200/min water

[oblique hollow]

Then you handle the last one seperately

[lyric belfry]

thats not an issue.. you just add backup pipes along the way

the goal with pipe is to maintain full saturation

[oblique hollow]

Dont turn it into a giant pipe network

[lyric belfry]

they can virtually carry any amount as long as thats hold up

[oblique hollow]

What. no. They still have a flow limit

[lyric belfry]

yes

[oblique hollow]

"carry virtually any amount" is a very odd thing to say then

[lyric belfry]

but you can add pipes after like 5 facilities

[kindred carbon]

So I should just disconnect them, allocate a separate one. I’ll start doing that

[lyric belfry]

like each consumer only worries about its immediately connected pipes

when they are full, the consumer can work

that cant top 600/m

[oblique hollow]

You want your pipe networks to be as simple as possible because turning it into a giant mess just means you will not know where to troubleshoot if stuff doesnt work

[lyric belfry]

but if you consider the entire pipe network with multiple pipes running parallel that number is not a hard limit

hard to explain, just watch the local consumption and add backup pipes regularly

[oblique hollow]

Right , you mean the flow capacity of an entire network, not a single pipe segment

[lyric belfry]

ye

hence 'virtually'

[wheat sedge]

Nah, I'd pipe https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226609993852129433/1383887474388111530/image.png?ex=6851bea5&is=68506d25&hm=ee0c2c047950a02196e47830635b8ee6a3a368127ac24f5829b02107c672c7b7&

[oblique hollow]

Thats still not a good excuse to turn everything into one giant interconnected network

[lyric belfry]

i havent said doing so

my point was that in your manifold, check when your consumers empty the pipe,k at that point, add backup pipe

[wheat sedge]

also for all the people who say pipes can't do 600 /min, in this single image I have 6 pipes running 600 /min 24/7 and if they don't my power would drop which it doesn't

[lyric belfry]

OR separate at that point, which is what you mean @oblique hollow right?

[oblique hollow]

600/min works, the people who cant get em running just have skill issue.

CSS said so themselves

[oblique hollow]

If you could have smaller seperate networks when you could also do a bigger network, smaller seperate ones are preferable

Like yeah, check the numbers, see if you can come up with a plan, then see if you could maybe simplify that and break it down into smaller groups still

[lyric belfry]

as a person being able to understand the math behind such things as pipe saturation and railway signals, i prefer to do it the right way, even if its more complicated... 😎

[oblique hollow]

Nobody said this was the wrong way

Math is alwwys needed anyway

[lyric belfry]

i did 👹

[oblique hollow]

My way or die way
You have chosen death
🔪

[lyric belfry]

wait a minute.. isnt tier 9 along with phase5?

[unique cypress]

yes

[wheat sedge]

no it's phase 4

[lyric belfry]

so while doing phase4 or after completing it?

[unique cypress]

well, it's between P4 and P5

[wheat sedge]

alright boys we got some contradiction here

[wheat sedge]

phase 5 is the one that finishes the game, phase 4 unlocks tier 9

so tier 9 is phase 4 in my point of view

[lyric belfry]

because im currently8 doing phase4.. i have finished all milestones.. but i dont hve the fuckmas oscillator recipe yet

[unique cypress]

it's tier 9

[oblique hollow]

Quantum magic is tier 9

[lyric belfry]

that make no sense.. im currently doing phase 4.. you could call this phase 4 or 5.. after finishing phase 4 you can call the phase 5 or 6 but not 4..

[oblique hollow]

Which is after you deliver your pastas, magnetic field generators, Assembly director systems and thermal propulsion rockets

[unique cypress]

it's after phase 4

[wheat sedge]

ye I'm dum

I check the wiki to prove you wrong I proved myself wrong

[lyric belfry]

👹

[kindred carbon]

Back to my refinery shenanigans, I have an extra 10/min heavy oil at the end of the line, I should be able to connect it to the end of another line just fine right? It’s a 400\min so sloshing isn’t an issue right

[oblique hollow]

Wasnt it you who i pinged regarding "what do you think slosh is and does"

[lyric belfry]

think of your lungs.. when you breath in , all the little channels and pipes will be saturated evenly.. this is how pipes work

so just breath in

breathing noise

and play

🕊️

[kindred carbon]

Lmaooo

I’ll just focus on connecting things, I just don’t wanna redo everything

[lyric belfry]

just dont think of the 10/m flowing away.. itll stil be part of the same pipe system

such as the contents of the pipe youre connecting

hence it might be necessary for example to use gravity to route things correctly

might... not neccessarily

[oblique hollow]

If you are worried about high flow rates messing stuff up, remember one thing:
Its a junction that dictates if your flow will go to shit

Junctions do not like having to split high flow rates up unevenly across their connected output pipes

[unique cypress]

actually, I never had issues with splitting pipes unevenly

but I have encountered an issue with merging once

[lyric belfry]

it rather matters how the split up segments are routed further

[oblique hollow]

It is splitting 99% of the time

[lyric belfry]

if one is lower than the other it will be preferred, making the other one potentially getting less saturated

[oblique hollow]

Although merging can also of course be handled ungracefully and mess stuff up

Like... you do not need mk 2 pipes out of a 250% water extractor. Ever

"What if it fills up" then your network is not set up right

It wont fill up or cause stalling if the network is fine

[lyric belfry]

in fact putting mk2 will allow already pumped water or that of other sources merge towards the direction of the extractor instead of away from it

[kindred carbon]

All of my set up is one way only, so from heavy oil into refineries

[lyric belfry]

so only one refinery?

[oblique hollow]

Every pipe network is 2-way unless you put pumps and valves on everything
Its just that it usually prefers going a certain way

That does not mean you should now try to slap valves and pumps on everything of course

[crimson moat]

Every pipe network is 2-way unless you put pumps and valves on everything

and you can't valve junctions, so those are always unidirectional

which is funnily enough the main use case for a valve

[kindred carbon]

No, 53 lol

[lyric belfry]

so 53 split ups

[kindred carbon]

Yea

[lyric belfry]

you konow when things arent as relevant as people say when you realize you are doing them without thinking about it

(or arent as irrelevant, depending on the situation)

[kindred carbon]

Yea

It feels like I’m overthinking everything, tbh. I should just build it and figure things out later

[oblique hollow]

Try and fail
And then try and succeed

[lyric belfry]

a 'valve' is the thing that regulates throughput, right? that cant determine direction.. only a pump can do or gravity obviously

[oblique hollow]

Valves are one-way

They dont allow fluid back through

[crimson moat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve

[oblique hollow]

!wikisearch valve

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=valve

[crimson moat]

The simplest, and very ancient, valve is simply a freely hinged flap which swings down to obstruct fluid (gas or liquid) flow in one direction, but is pushed up by the flow itself when the flow is moving in the opposite direction. This is called a check valve, as it prevents or "checks" the flow in one direction.

[lyric belfry]

yes. what should that article about valves doing exactly what I said, tell me?

[crimson moat]

obstruct fluid (gas or liquid) flow in one direction

the primary function of valves not just ingame but in the world is to restrict flow so that it can only go one way

secondary is to control the rate of flow

[oblique hollow]

Ball valves are technically bidirectional

What we have ingame is specifically a check valve with regulator / flow control

[crimson moat]

e.g.

[kindred carbon]

I have a small problem now.. I didn’t leave enough space when placing 16 refineries

For the output ports… so I’ll need commit more spaghetti

[opaque quartz]

Pro tip: place all your machines first before doing any logistics. Makes it much easier to adjust if you don’t have enough room. I usually leave two or three full foundations space between every group of machines

[kindred carbon]

I’m not gonna relocate everything, to lazy tbh. I’ll just josh it

You can place junctions on the side of refineries for a reason yk

[thorn trail]

you can mass move things fairly easily with the Satisfactor Calculator Interactive Map AKA SCIM if you don't mind editing your save file.

[kindred carbon]

Can’t edit <( i play on GeForce now

[thorn trail]

so you don't have access to the save file?

sorry, my knowledge of GeForce Now is limited to how to spell it

[kindred carbon]

I do, but I’m 90% I can’t download the save file

[kindred carbon]

Only got 1000 plastic left

This is bad

[deft lichen]

Doesn't that just use cloud saves

[kindred carbon]

It does, it uses the steam cloud servers for storage. I don’t think I can edit my steam cloud save though without a pc that had the game installed

This will look so much worse once I’m done

[wind zinc]

🍝

[kindred carbon]

This will have no consequences whatsoever

[proper laurel]

tfw you finish debugging a new factory and it and everything it's connected to are all running flawlessly

and it's aluminum too. Getting the excess water out of the system was the best feeling

you could say the end result is

satisfactory

[vapid gorge]

neither is the 'right' way, one way is just way easier

[lyric belfry]

pure copper ingots and then make the copper for alclad sheets from the excess water and a handful of copper ore, thus keeping the excess water inside the system

[wintry iron]

I like dumping recycled water into a wet concrete refinery. If anything is gonna get messed up in my factory it’ll be aluminum.

[vapid gorge]

simpler to just have some refineries run on fresh water (blue) and some run on waste (red)

[wintry iron]

Yeah that makes sense.

[vapid gorge]

its unbreakable and doesnt need any extra resources

and you can treat the byproducts with the nuclear chain and dark matter residue in the same way

[wintry iron]

But don’t the recycled water refineries also generate alumina solution that will produce more recycled water?

Assuming those are alumina refineries

[vapid gorge]

yup, but they just get fed back into the waste refineries

it takes a few minutes to spin up to 100%

as more and more waste gets made

[wintry iron]

So the waste refineries are not running at 100% constantly?

[vapid gorge]

they will run at 100% after they spin up

[wintry iron]

So isn’t that the same as feeding recycled water back into your main refineries? Sorry if I’m not understanding the difference but I’m genuinely curious how having separate waste refineries is less prone to breaking.

[vapid gorge]

the difference is that mixing waste and fresh together can be really delicate and fiddly and can break down at the slightest disturbance depending on which method you use.

this is unbreakable and simple

if there's ever a slight hitch in a mixed water system? and it's just direct feed? will probably collapse. need to be manually flushed and restarted.
keeping it split? you pause it for any reason, and it'll just keep going after

[oblique hollow]

A mixed system is most stable when it fills up and stalls. You dont want that

A system where you keep it seperate is stable at just about any stage. Its just slower to get going. Thats a lot better.

[crimson moat]

If there's fresh water attached to your waste pipe and a refinery ever stalls without stalling the water extractor, that extractor will increase the level of water in the combined pipe (eventually, or even sometimes quickly, filling it into a deadlock). If your refineries are clocked for 100% uptime then the water levels will never drop, so even a tiny rise adds up.

Buildings stall due to several game bugs, so it's very easy to cause an upset situation and deadlock even with logical building.

If you have seperate water systems and only input fresh water to a refinery which starves of resources at the same time or earlier than your waste refineries, then any refinery stall will ALSO stall the water extractor because the fresh pipe, and only the fresh pipe, is full. Therefore the water levels in the waste pipe will not increase, but instead stay the same (or fall, if waste refineries stay active longer than the fresh one/s).

This reduction recovers in a stable fashion as some production cycles are missed while the water climbs back to equilibrium instead, then everything runs at 100% forever again.

There's no way with a properly designed split system for the water level in the waste pipe to rise above equilibrium level, because the water consumption of waste refineries is always greater or equal to the generation of waste water. Anything that makes the refineries turn off will reduce water consumption but also reduce water production by an equal or greater amount.

The difference is the tying of the water extractor's behavior to that of the refinery which stalls first. With a mixed pipe, the extractor will happily fill the pipe to deadlock. With a split system, it literally cannot run because it's not even connected to that pipe.

[wintry iron]

Ah so it’s about separating the water extractors from the recycled water loop. Makes sense.

Thank you for explaining.

[quaint vale]

is there a ratio of amount of pipes to pumps?

[unique cypress]

Pumps are only for adding head lift

Which is only for moving fluid up

[quaint vale]

as a followup question; how many water extractors per a single pipe?

[wind spade]

I would recommend to not think in this way

think how much water a machine needs, make a good ratio, connect them in a single small module

(also, pipe tells you its capacity in UI and extractors their extraction rate)

[oblique hollow]

simplest case: 2.5 to 1 for mk 1 pipes.
but thats only if you need full 300/min pipes somewhere.

Otherwise, its better to consider the ratio of extractors to machines that need water

[umbral barn]

im never gonna get why this game does this (for context im out in the top of the map, hundreds of meters away from land)

right here

How is the water not deep enough here but a half a meter away it is

[unborn ermine]

oh yeah that spot, bug report it if it isnt already

[vapid gorge]

water becomes fake at a certain distance

[umbral barn]

then why is the water further away from land real?

[vapid gorge]

no one has ever made a border outlining real from fake. Best to not build floating ocean factories and just use the terrain

[umbral barn]

im building a nuclear power plant

I need the water to cool reactors

[vapid gorge]

can always build it closer in. Also recommend multiple floors of reactors

[knotty siren]

Terrain sucks, gimme my offshore ocean platforms!

[vapid gorge]

get a mod to flatten the map and play a 2d game

[knotty siren]

But I don't wanna!

😅

[vapid gorge]

then why play a 3d game?

avoiding a massive part of the design gameplay

[knotty siren]

You realize I am just joking right?

[vapid gorge]

satire is dead and I've run into a lot of people on here who hold those views in ernest

[knotty siren]

Oh I see

My mistake

[vapid gorge]

no that's fair xD you didn't know

the best times are those people who then complain about how many problems they ahve moving logistics up and down to their sky infrastructure

[knotty siren]

Heh, well ADA did recommend going vertical

[vapid gorge]

building towers often works out much better, you aren't makign long giant pipes straight up. often just short ones that are much more manageble

like I've got a lot of experience with the logistic mechanics in the game and could probably make sky infrastructure w/o much issue. But often sky base folk are also fairly new

bad combo

[knotty siren]

Hmm

When you say long giant pipes straight up, do you mean like alongside the wall or between floors?

[vapid gorge]

well when I'm talking about sky infrastructure I'm talking about people up in the air 200m+ with pipes and belts going ... mostly straight up? often it's messier though which probably has it's own issues

[knotty siren]

Oh, heh

Yeah I could see that

[vapid gorge]

like it's doable, but if you're not practiced with these things you're going to run into a lot more issue than you would with your factories on the ground

[knotty siren]

Yeah for sure. I could see that.

I am getting the feel of building off the ground but I don't see myself doing a 200m+ skybase

That in itself sounds a little excessive and kind of defeats the purpose of the game and its terrain.

[vapid gorge]

I mean it's very reasonable doing some thickness of foundation to work on. Very littel terrain is perfectly flat, but most of the map neesd very little flattening to build a good factory on

[knotty siren]

Yeah 100%

[vapid gorge]

espcially if you do an extra floor or two

[knotty siren]

My first base is pretty close to the ground and clips into the terrain a bit but that's okay

[vapid gorge]

working around the terrain is great design 🙂

[knotty siren]

My other two bases are a little higher than they need to be but I just wanted to make sure I had enough room. Maybe I overcompensated.

I have done some teardowns on this current save as well to make things more efficient

Oh and also trying my hand at nicer looking aesthetics

[vapid gorge]

pretty normal as you learn

[knotty siren]

🙂

Blueprint designer is such a Godsend

[vapid gorge]

it can help with finicky things 🙂

[knotty siren]

Yeah for sure. It's also helpful to put buildings together in half the time it would take me otherwise.

Eventually I will get into putting factory buildings into blueprint designers and pump those out but for now I am mainly putting all those down by hand and connecting it all one at time. It takes more time but it's all about the aesthetics

[vapid gorge]

you could always just have 1 machien with all ti's connections how you like as a BP

[knotty siren]

True

[vapid gorge]

that alone would save a fair bit of time

[knotty siren]

Yeah that's a good idea

[umbral barn]

can you use belt balaners if the total incoming amount of items in higher than the max thruput of your belts? Im trying to see if i can balance out 840 items per min in a 2:2 balancer

also how do i deal with the insanely long times that the pure recipes take?

[vapid gorge]

split both belts into 2, merge one of each

[vapid gorge]

what insane times?

[amber umbra]

@umbral barn Long craft times don’t matter. You can just manifold like normal and the machines will eventually sync up nicely after a period of stuttering.

[umbral barn]

24 seconds for copper

[umbral barn]

oh i was just worried

this is my first time using pure recipes

[amber umbra]

It’s unintuitive that it’s not an issue, true. But yea, it’s not a problem.

[vapid gorge]

you make as many machines as you need

or use the alloy recipes that are far less annoying

[wind spade]

you can (though at that point I'd just use each belt separately)

[umbral barn]

well thats an option but 750 and 90 are real weird in terms of what machines they're going into

[wind spade]

I mean we have clock speed for a reason 🙂

[umbral barn]

This is true

[opaque quartz]

10 BWD/min is finally stable. dumped the 1k I had accumulated in storage while working out the kinks

coupon printer go brrrrr

stabilized now at ~32 million points/min going forward

[silent trail]

havent played in a long time and i found my first hardrive, its bolted frames (fastest frames recipe) or copper rotor (fastest rotor recipe) i checked the wiki and the rotor recipe is nearly double the default and hte other alt while the frames recipe is only +2 per minute. should i pick rotor or rescan?

[sand epoch]

You think 24 seconds is insane? O0

[wind spade]

Your choice

You can get all recipes anyway

And rate of production is just one of many recipe parameters you should look at

[silent trail]

oh theres enough hard drive to get all alt recipes now?

nice.

i think ill get the rotor. its the best one even it needs screwwws

[vapid gorge]

best is pretty subjective, steel rotors takes a bit more resources but can simplify a factory

[wind spade]

always was

[silent trail]

huh. i remember a long time ago there wasnt.

[wind spade]

nah, always was

[vapid gorge]

nope, always was

[wind spade]

"best" is hard to quantify, steel rotor is (in my personal opinion) too expensive to be useful (for me)

[vapid gorge]

I just like it because it uses a lot of the same parts and doesn't need copper 😄

[delicate night]

is Rocket Fuel worth doing over Turbofuel

[crimson moat]

yes, turbofuel is not great but it's a neccesary step on the way to rocket fuel which is excellent

ideally you can make a rocket fuel plant but just without the last steps to turn it into rocket fuel, burn it as turbo in p3, and then fill in the rest (nitric acid and some blenders for turbo to rocket) when you hit p4 for rocket fuel.

[umbral barn]

this is for my nuclear plant, i know how bad it is TwT

[delicate night]

o really . Cus i remember asking before but cus its been a lot time i want to ask again so did it get buff cus last time a lot sayed Turbofuel .

[opaque quartz]

turbofuel and rocketfuel both functionally just take other resources (coal, sulfur, nitrogen) and make more fuel

[crimson moat]

rocket uses nitrogen but it gives you like 3x the power per sulphur, coal, oil

[opaque quartz]

TF and RF burn slower which means you can build a lot more generators

[delicate night]

so make Turbofuel in p3 and move it over into rocket when im in p4

[crimson moat]

ye

[opaque quartz]

there's an alt recipe called nitro rocket fuel which skips the turbofuel step and is dead simple to build, but requires phase 4 (blenders) and is less resource efficient

but nitro rocket fuel is a favorite amongst players specifically because of how simple it is to make

[fallow siren]

a very braindead recipe if you want easy big power

600 oil to 144GW with nitro alt

and it only took small amount of power to kickstart

iirc around 5GW ish

[umbral barn]

any reason these machines arent getting enough water? (the unpainted ones and the ones between them)

[delicate night]

is that all one pipe

for the 2nd image

[umbral barn]

the one feeing the problem machines has a loopback pipe (the middle mk2 pipe is whats feeding it)

[delicate night]

Add the small buffer at the for "problem machines" . Then other machines as well . Also let the pipe fill up all the way first then trun them all on and see if that fix it

[wind spade]

no, don't add buffers to pipe networks, they pretty much never help

[delicate night]

you sure . I saw ImKibitz vid and he need a buffer for his Alumina build

[wind spade]

yes, very sure. And kibitz is a very bad example

[delicate night]

how

[wind spade]

he's entertainer, not a teacher. His builds are often problematic/inefficient/etc.

[crimson moat]

he doesn't care very much for optimisation or the finer details of mechanics

[wind spade]

and when people say that "buffer fixed their build", it usually means there's another problem that the buffer just delayed/hide. Better to fix the actual problem

[sand nova]

hey speaking about alumina

Yes i know thumbs down i want to make it thumbs up but dont know how

[crimson moat]

"just enough" instantly becomes "too much" if any refinery ever stalls (and they will due to game bugs if nothing else)

[wind spade]

separate fresh and recycled refineries

[crimson moat]

remove that pipe entirely which the valve is on

[sand nova]

the "just enough" refers to it giving just enough water to the fresh refineries

[crimson moat]

But it's not doing that, it's filling the waste pipe. Why is it plugged into that one?

[sand nova]

the recycled water and the amount i pump in is exactly enough for the 4 refineries

[crimson moat]

"just enough" instantly becomes "too much" if any refinery ever stalls (and they will due to game bugs if nothing else)

[wind spade]

which is why I recommended separating fresh and recycled

[crimson moat]

You can run some refineries on fresh water and some on recycled water. You don't have to run all refineries on both, and therefore the water extractor doesn't have to fill the waste pipe at all.

[sand nova]

theres a valve there

[wind spade]

that doesn't change Aeryn's point

[crimson moat]

You are not listening to what we tell you, man. Third time i write:

"just enough" instantly becomes "too much" if any refinery ever stalls (and they will due to game bugs if nothing else)

water consumption stops, but water extractor input to the pipe doesn't, which results in every pipe that is connected the water extractor filling 100% full. If the waste pipe is, that's a deadlock.

[sand nova]

i fixed it

[wind spade]

that doesn't fix it

[knotty siren]

I bottle and sink my recycled water from alumina production because I'm a heretic

[delicate night]

how does that make you a heretic

[knotty siren]

Lol

It doesn't

[delicate night]

is it cus your not using wet concrete instead

[knotty siren]

It's just not "ideal" solution according to the fluid mechanics book

[knotty siren]

No not that but hey that's actually a great idea

[delicate night]

ahahah

[knotty siren]

[crimson moat]

it's mainly just kinda bad because it requires 3.33x as much water input and resources to delete the water, when rerouting your output water can fix both problems simultaneously

[delicate night]

witch one wet concrete or recycled water

[crimson moat]

wet concrete, packaging etc.

With recycling, 90 water feeds 300 baux. Without it, you need 300.

[delicate night]

o

[sand nova]

this is the same separation thing you guys are talking about its just disguised

instead of 2.4 recycled refineries and 1.6 fresh ones i just have 2 recycled and 1 fresh, with the 3rd refinery having its water supply split

[crimson moat]

you'll still lose all production indefinitely if the fresh input fills the waste pipe via the "shared" connection

[sand nova]

2 recycled and 1 fresh and the third refinery so still 4

[knotty siren]

The waste water should not be mixed with fresh and should be fed into its own refineries

[sand nova]

the new valve is capped at only 40% of the 3rd refinerys production rate

[knotty siren]

Okay dude. You do you

[sand nova]

listen

if it clogs ill come back with my tail tucked behind my legs

but i think im a genius for this

[crimson moat]

textbook example of the dunning kruger effect

[delicate night]

fr

[wind spade]

the problem is when refineries idle, because no matter what the valves are set to, there's extra water flowing to the system that isn't being processed due to refineries idling

[delicate night]

and or trolling

[delicate night]

how you have that font

[sand nova]

you mean idle like if the scrap output gets too full

[wind spade]

anything like that. there are some bugs in the game that could also cause temporary idling

[oblique hollow]

put a star * directly before and after a message
*like so*

[fallow siren]

kibitz is fun to watch, but you dont learn things from his build

you know how much times his nuclear power goes into problem, his alu plant, etc

and im pretty sure he will forgot his plan to upgrade all belt to mk6 for his nuclear

[vapid gorge]

yeah, entertainer. His builds are just big and he speaks well.

after I saw his pipes though and how he manages them I'm thinking he has a lot of stuttering

[frosty owl]

Ofc, after all he never came to learn from my nuclear save

[frosty owl]

BTW, is there some simple way to "break up" the factory calculations of SF Modeler?
As the plan grows, it keeps trying to re-calculate it any time I do something (annoying) and at some point it started taking several minutes for each iteration (very annoying).
I hope there's an easy way to break things up so that it can resolve smaller production chains instead of a single big one...

( A notification for @quick gorge who seems to be using it atm)

[quick gorge]

AARSUFjbdg a I was summoned now I have to read WORDS

[frosty owl]

It'd be a good moment to just delete my own message

[quick gorge]

re-calculate it any time I do something

Completly it up so it doesn't get in calc loops

[frosty owl]

Urgh... Annoying solution...
I hoped there was something simpler
Also because I keep wanting to modify things as I go; having to reconnect everything just to check the numbers easily gets annoying really fast (also, the calculation time is exploding on my end...)

[quick gorge]

It's simple enough

You just need to poke it the right way

It is a shitty solution but I've called this game jankisfactory before so just keeping that up :D

Once you have a solid path way between two things just put one of those down and it helps a lot with calc times when you're making big things

[frosty owl]

This plan is gonna take so long to make...
The only reason I'm not doing it directly in-game, at this point, is just because planners make the math a bit easier (less numbers to phisically type in to get the results)

[frosty owl]

Yeah, the issue is that most of my "things" have one or more input/output dependant from other "things". So even if I finished on "thing", I may need the connection to properly adjust other things or the other way around (eg: a plan importing Dark Matter Residue may need to produce some locally if I modify the plan originally providing the Residue)

Or, un other words: there's just too many dependencies to handle that easily

[unique cypress]

Just use Satisfactory Tools lol. It doesn't lag and you don't have to manually place every node

[quick gorge]

Nah

I honestly like it more

[frosty owl]

That is part of the tools that I use, yes

But it lacks several features that I now feel the need for, like being able to axtually place individual nodes and multiple nodes for the same recipe and so on

[quick gorge]

It's the closest thing to pen and paper

[fallow siren]

dont connect all the connection node for ingots, or just divide them

[frosty owl]

But then I have to manually calculate the ore inputs

[fallow siren]

honestly idk when the calculation become so slow bcs i did a full plan of ficsonium back then and it does not delayed

[quick gorge]

I use modeler for more realistic planning, like making an outpost that just made of this

Turns into this

[unique cypress]

you could probably save yourself some processing power by not using splitters/mergers (except priority)

[quick gorge]

I enjoy having it visually laid out in the way it handles it.
It just does things the way my brain does the thing

This output hasn't been touched in weeks and I've build the functional part in game, I just have to put the pretty over it

Yes Ven this one is for you <3

[frosty owl]

I can't really pin down what exactly is slowing it down so much. It started once I connected "many" things I guess... Then the Plubber loops made things even worse.
I can share the plan if you wish 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

The "somehow it works its magic" kind of screenshot 😆

[quick gorge]

I do want to hide all the belts so it looks more magical but might over shadow the SIS part

[frosty owl]

I think it would be more obvious if the machines were higher than the belts and just had sloped-up belts leading to them. The lifts kind of "break things up", in this regard, imo

[quick gorge]

I haven't touched that build in a month 💀
I've been making the SAM reanimator

[frosty owl]

The plan is BASICALLY (for now):
Output:

• Ficsonium
• PFR
• Singularity cells
• Dark Matter Fluid or whatever it's called (byproduct)
  Inputs:
• Ores
• Dark Matter Crystals

So, due to Dark Matter and its crystals, I have to keep some connections to other production plans and they keep influencing one another

(If this doesn't interest you J apologize, but I find it useful to just write this down right now 😅)

[frosty owl]

Just throwing out ideas :)

[quick gorge]

Will rework ma snowflake when I get back around to it

[fallow siren]

you can check the node with the most connection, most of the time they are the main problem since the connections also branched to another connections

and i separate that node to its own graph

definitely recommended to use the outpost

[quick gorge]

I have been redoing things for actual build designs like the two I showed off so things are half planned and need to be relinked, woo rejigging

[fallow siren]

some of my plan in current save

[quick gorge]

I have outposts with these areas so I only use the ore within those areas, it takes it's sweet fucking time but I can toggle the layers off

realism planning
I don't want to just select all ore on the map and take it to one area, that isn't realistic at all. So I'm content

Seeings as it is half 9 in the morning, I'mma go sleep.
I will have a look at my snowflake SIS and see if being away from it for a month has helped

[frosty owl]

I do, but still need to connect them not to lose track of some dependencies as I modify the different outposts 😭

Eg: if I change some thing in the part making Dark Matter crystals, the Dark Matter Residue from Ficsonium have to be accounted for and vice-versa

[crimson moat]

I don't use or recommend Modeller to calculate stuff. If you know which recipies you want to use and how much of them, it can clean that up a lot.

[brisk urchin]

yeah how do you use modeler? ive tried it for 5 minutes and i had no clue how to design some farms simple

[frosty owl]

I know what recipes to use, I'm just trying different tools to find one that allows me to make a complete flowchart of my plans... Without too much hassle 😅
Being able to double-check numbers is a bonus, but not having to manually type the output/input of each production step is extremely convenient

[fallow siren]

R-click to open menu > search end product you want > you can hold L-click the output to drag them and choose what recipe you wanted

modeler is manual, if you dont want to waste time, just use tools

[timber cove]

Question regarding preferences for diluted packaged fuel: Do people prefer to do them in singular units (1 packager -> 1 refinery -> 1 packager), in smaller modula units (a handful of packagers and refineries each), or in one big system (everything connected)?

[unique cypress]

Unless you specifically want a more manual calculator, I suggest you don't even bother

[fallow siren]

you want to have separate loop

[unique cypress]

1:1:1 loops are objectively the best

[fallow siren]

my dpf loop

one click bp and easily scalable

[unique cypress]

merging canisters from multiple refineries adds complexity and requires several times more canisters unless you balance everyting, which adds even more complexity

there's no reason to merge the canisters

[frosty owl]

It feels cool

[fallow siren]

i did that once, from 3200/min canister to 10k/min cuz you need to saturate the manifold 😭

[unique cypress]

and you can add the canisters into the blueprint which means you don't even need to fill the loops by hand

[unique cypress]

yeah, I did one connected loop exactly once and never agian

just like turbofuel

[fallow siren]

this was pain in the ass

[edgy leaf]

people that do dpf are so brave, I could never. I just limp my way to blenders with normal fuel

[unique cypress]

meanwhile, whenver I see diluted fuel i wonder if it's a waste of a drive to pick it up because i already have diluted

with a decent blueprint it's not that bad

and yet I cave in and take it every time

[timber cove]

I have tried all methods and in general I prefer the 1:1:1 setup as well. I just noticed multiple youtubers doing the big systems instead (although they have have their issues with it) so I was wondering if I was missing something.

[timber cove]

It is similar to the design I used. Except I had the refinery on top. So the blueprint was 2 parts (top and bottom) and had 3 units per blueprint (was designed when the mk1 blueprint was the only option)

[fallow siren]

my bp allows for flexible expansion, and i can decide the spacing for pipes as well
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/932761153703149659/1360897957578145792/image.png?ex=68284bfd&is=6826fa7d&hm=03b84ccfc8b0dc527ed7aab490b0fa243952f94f5ac5faa7e75db6225c6dbb9c&

[timber cove]

I was considering the same but it's nice to just get it done and then don't have to worry about it later. With a decent blueprint the diluted packaged fuel isn't that bad even.

[fallow siren]

this bp is clocked to 133.3333% actually, allowing 1:1:1:1 ratio

[unique cypress]

I'd UC the HOR refinery to 75% so it doesn't stall once every 1000 hours

[timber cove]

That actually looks quite neat

[unique cypress]

or just leave it at 100% so it stalls all the time

[timber cove]

hmm that's a great idea tbh. Do a blueprint with the full crude oil -> fuel setup

Doing the 133.3% OC gives some really pretty numbers: 30 Crude oil -> 40 HOR -> 80 Fuel

[brisk urchin]

well yeah i found that out, but is there realy no simpler way of designing a factory or a manufacturing site

[sand nova]

i left my game on overnight and you wouldnt believe it

it didnt clog

[crimson moat]

now put it on a priority power switch and fly around it with a hoverpack, move back and forth between the other side of the map and reload your save 20 times

and btw your scrap is clogged

[sand nova]

its not

all my scrap using machines are online

[crimson moat]

There's 482 scrap in your refinery, i.e. it can't run because it's full of scrap.

[sand nova]

the reason its at 482 is because the scrap is getting sunk with an overflow smart splitter

therefore the stack reaches its max but doesnt clog

[unique cypress]

that's not how that works

[crimson moat]

yeah that's not how that works

that number should never ever be over 50

[unique cypress]

at least if you're sinking overflow

if you're not using all the scrap, then it can back up

[crimson moat]

easier to sink than to not

[vapid gorge]

split fresh and waste water and it'll never clog

[sand nova]

im aware

maybe it is not how it works but regardless

it works

[vapid gorge]

no one said direct feeding can't work. It's just fiddly and unreliable

[sand nova]

oh the reason there was so much scrap was that i accidentally didnt sink that refinery's output, the other refineries i did sink were at 0 scrap

[oblique hollow]

so that specific one was actually misconfigured.

Makes sense, i see a small glimpse of the productivity meter and it shows 76%

[sand nova]

yes

also im not sure if this would affect things but the setup only receives 97.5% bauxite that it needs

780 vs 800

[oblique hollow]

yes that affects things

if you supply the bauxite to each refinery via overflow, then the last refinery will always be below 100% productivity

which, depending on how you did the water recycling, could be devastating

[sand nova]

true

[delicate night]

fair but to say he does not care for optimisation or the finer details of mechanics is imo is exaggerated

[delicate night]

what in pain factory

[wind spade]

you'll get much more informed reply by asking here, than by following a tutorial by most youtubers

[delicate night]

ik and i have ask here but when its texted based learning its not the easy to understand for me

[wind spade]

well there are youtubers who still believe there is mk2 pipe bug 🤷

[delicate night]

there was a mk2 pipe bug?

what was it

[wind spade]

there wasn't

but people still believe there is/was one

[delicate night]

o

[wind spade]

because some youtubers/streamers said so

[unique cypress]

never? or not in stable?

[wind spade]

(same with mk5 belt bug)

[delicate night]

o

[unique cypress]

because I think there was one in U6 Exp

[wind spade]

well there were small pipe bugs, but they weren't just for mk2 pipes, and they usually got fixed relatively quickly

and I'm talking specifically about what they call "mk2 bug", aka mk2 pipe not being able to do 600

[unique cypress]

I'm mostly asking about the floating point bug. Cause I'm pretty sure I encountered it with mk5 belts in U6E

idk if it affected pipes back then

[deft lichen]

no that did exist

fixed in update 7

it wasn't specifically tied to mk5 belts but the most pronounced with them

[wind spade]

that's my point tho

a specifically mk5 bug never existed

[deft lichen]

gotta name it somehow

[wind spade]

maybe "belt to belt segment bug" 😛

[brisk urchin]

why dis not work

[deft lichen]

open a #1038092680493801533 thread please

[brisk urchin]

oh right

i forgot that existed

[brisk urchin]

ok did

[tired surge]

How many fuel generators could work with Max Overclocked Pure Oil Node and 10 refineries

[unique cypress]

depends what fuel

and why exactly 10 refineries?

[delicate night]

just 1 Pure Oil Node and is it fuel Turbofuel rocket fuel

and are you using deluded fuel recipe as well

[tired surge]

Regular fuel but my math ain’t mathin so my 8 fuel gens end up turning off after like 20 min

[unique cypress]

what recipes are you using?

[delicate night]

use satisfactory modeler to see the rought estimate of all thing

[tired surge]

Lemme give it a try thanks

[unique cypress]

Or Satisfactory Tools. Or any calculator

[delicate night]

modeler anti the best for the math part but its get the job done . that to ^

[quaint condor]

It's fine at the math part. Just doesn't "auto-pick" recipes for you. The only thing that is "tricky" sometimes is connecting loops. Additionally, the author has plans to also take into account clock rates and automatically round the machine number up and adjust the clock acccordingly.

[delicate night]

ya that why i said its fine it get the job done its just need some of your input to get there . But that why i like it does not "auto-pick" recipes for us . Sometime it should like if there only one and like you said connecting loops . Like when i have my water back into it self is jenkee

[quaint condor]

The "trick" to that is adjusting the incoming for water. So, if you are pulling in 500, have 350 being pumped back in, you only need an extra 150.

For doing the plastic/rubber fuel loop, You need to place a 'splurger' to deal with the "excess" for the loop to work.

[delicate night]

yep ik i just wish it does it for me and not make everything zero when i combined them with out doing that first

[delicate night]

Even with that you need to do water pump first before add the "excess" water

[quaint condor]

Truthfully though, that is how you are 'supossed' to do in game as well

[delicate night]

witch is a little annoting

[delicate night]

fair

[crimson moat]

people who care about those things talk to each other and test stuff regularly.

[delicate night]

fair

[tropic pendant]

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN

[wind spade]

do a full screenshot

[delicate night]

what are you confused about

[unique cypress]

it means you turned it off

[tropic pendant]

why is it paused

oh oops i didnt see i turned it off, idek when i did that

[tropic pendant]

yes thanks guys smash like

[brisk urchin]

W inventory fr

[delicate night]

fr but he need more screw

[tropic pendant]

wjats wrpng 💔

[brisk urchin]

fr

[tropic pendant]

i was building rlly long lines of <60 item/min conveyors

[brisk urchin]

6h mark on satisfactory!

time for a sip of fresh FICSIT water

[tropic pendant]

YES

i built my first particle accelerator smash like

[brisk urchin]

im near that

[delicate night]

fax but dont take to long FICSIT has no time for " worker rights"

[brisk urchin]

gna need to get all the new items automated

[brisk urchin]

mhm

[tropic pendant]

pain

[brisk urchin]

to bad its sleepy time for me

[tropic pendant]

mmm

what times that

[brisk urchin]

10pm

[tropic pendant]

o

[brisk urchin]

im tired af. work day be long

[tropic pendant]

same timezone

[brisk urchin]

lol

[delicate night]

there is no sleepy time for FICSIT workers

[tropic pendant]

fr

[brisk urchin]

well its nearly 11pm

[brisk urchin]

ik thats why there isnt any usable bed in the game

[tropic pendant]

wnhere u live

[brisk urchin]

to bad im in real life

[delicate night]

ahahah fr

[brisk urchin]

austria

[tropic pendant]

ohh i live in switzerland

[brisk urchin]

W fr

ok now nighty night. bye

[tropic pendant]

goodnight

[unique cypress]

doxxed lol

[tropic pendant]

tryn find me then

[ruby shoal]

As far as pipes go, is this a better design for them than just feeding them from one end like a manifold?

[unique cypress]

I'd say no

[delicate night]

nah just

[unique cypress]

I just feed everything normally and it works fine 🤷‍♂️

[delicate night]

raise the pipe up and when you feeding them make the pipe go down from the main one

[ruby shoal]

Ah, gotcha. I thought doing it like this would cause problems later, but I'll go with it

[unique cypress]

it would be best if you put the manifold a few metres up and then connect to the refineries with short, s-shaped pipes

[ruby shoal]

Oh, wait. I think I get what you're saying?

[delicate night]

like this

[unique cypress]

yes, that's mostly what I meant

[ruby shoal]

Shit, that's really cool lol

How did you get them to rotate along that axis?

[delicate night]

this is better

[ruby shoal]

Damn, setting up actually good oil production is gonna be hard lmao.

[delicate night]

yep

i hope one day they make fluid better to understand

[ruby shoal]

Is the entire point in making them flow downward at an angle just to ensure gravity helps feed it into the machine?

[delicate night]

yes and priority as well

[delicate night]

and some advice if the pipe is full first before the machine are all on it will help with sloshing

[ruby shoal]

Alright, I think I got it. Might need to make a blueprint for this system lol

[ruby shoal]

Good advice. I learned this back when dealing with water while making a coal plant. Thank you though!

[delicate night]

thats look fine . imo would say make the pipe highter and shorter to the machine for easy belt work

[delicate night]

np hope it all work first try

[ruby shoal]

Ah, gotcha. I originally had it on a 4m foundation, but it seemed too high so I switched to 2m. I think I'll rebuild to do what you said. Thank you!

[delicate night]

np and if you have trouble planning thing out use SF modeler and or SF Tools . Imo modeler for planning and Tool for math

[vapid gorge]

fine as a loop, but you probably don't need a loop on a system that short

[vapid gorge]

you want fewer injection points along a manifold - you're doubling that by having a junction for each machine instead of 1 junction feeding 2

[delicate night]

how would that look like . And how am i doubling i have a 1 to 1 how is that bad?

[vapid gorge]

make an end plan for half the amount you're aiming for, slop some sloops on the end

[fallow siren]

slooping end part is basically doubling entire production

[delicate night]

i am doing that

[vapid gorge]

sorry replied to wrong thing

[fallow siren]

45/min hmf

[vapid gorge]

you'd have 1 junction in between 2 refineries

[delicate night]

ah all good

[vapid gorge]

you're doubling it because you ahve 1 junction per machine

[delicate night]

whats hmf

[delicate night]

so i would want 1 junction pre 2 machine

[fallow siren]

heavy modular frame

[delicate night]

ah ok

[vapid gorge]

it makes for a more stable situation yes, now, it's not impossible to do what you're doing, it's just inherently more stable to have fewer injection points.

just means you'll have less leeway in wibbly wobblyness in other ways

[delicate night]

o i did not know that

[vapid gorge]

a lot don't. don't stress

theres basically a bunch of basic pipe things which make it more or less stable and at some point of too much unstable you run into problems.

my policy is to basically make it as stable as possible

[fierce ruin]

I am planning a small, modular factory. It produces:

Reinforced Iron Plates: 25/m
Modular Frames: 10/m
Rotors: 20/m
Smart Plating: 10/m
Versatile Framework: 10/m
Automated Wiring: 2,5/m

Is that enough or should I plan bigger?
Info: All, the factory needs, that isn't produced in it, comes from another factory.

[unique cypress]

I'd skip the space elevator parts entirely. They're only needed for the space elevator and nothing else. It's much faster and easier to just handfeed a single machine making them whenever you need them and only make however many you need

The rest seems fine for personal use

[fierce ruin]

I did plan to automate them to put them into the awsome sink so, when i dont need them anymore, I get coupons. and so that I have the parts, when I need them for other parts in the future.

[unique cypress]

I usually find that sinking overflow from normal production is enough unless I want a golden nut but you do you

I'm just saying you don't need to automate spelevator parts in case you think you do

[fierce ruin]

So, without producing the space elevator parts, I would produce:

Reinforced Iron Plates: 35/m
Modular Frames: 15/m
Rotors: 30/m

[silent ingot]

does anyone have a spreadsheet/full plan of the logistics of a max nuclear powerplant? i started planning for one, and while the uranium fuel rods and plutonium fuel rods don't cause any problems, the ficsonium is proving troublesome

when maximizing the amount of uranium & plutonium rods you get 224 plutonium waste /min, and it just seems impossible to treat that much given the S.A.M. restrictions in the game

with a setup like this you end up needing way more than the available 10200/min for the trigons alone

[unique cypress]

It's just barely possible if you use sloops

[silent ingot]

oooh sloops right

i forgot about those thank you

[unique cypress]

And possibly oscillators or shards to make DMR without SAM

[cedar shoal]

how does your modeler have such smooth lines??

[silent ingot]

yeah, i figured that you'd need a big setup that's self sustaining on DMR to make enough, hence why im importing it into the setup from another source

[unique cypress]

Also, the max Plutonium waste from 2100 uranium is actually 305.(45)/min

[silent ingot]

settings -> style -> connection style -> 2d

[unique cypress]

Not that you actually get more power from that lol

[silent ingot]

im guessing thats with using the fertile uranium recipe

but hmm oki thank you for reminding me of sloops lol

[unique cypress]

Max power from 2100 uranium is 50.4/22.4/112 at 588 reactors powered and 1.47 TW and max Ficsonium is 22.8/30.4/152 at 1.425 TW

That said, it's significantly cheaper and easier to just convert bauxite to more uranium and not touch Ficsonium at all

[silent ingot]

yeah no i get that, im just trying to go for the "perfect" setup for the fun of it

[cedar shoal]

that’s so real, i was gonna do the same but i started this big city project for the final space elevator stuff and now it takes up most of the worlds resources :p

[unique cypress]

I got pissed at how unreasonably expensive Ficsonium is so I made a mod to make it at least slightly more balanced with the rest of nuclear

[silent ingot]

yeah it is kind of stupid

[tidal badge]

I need help with turning the blur crator into a turbo powerplant. I done the possessing of all the oil into fuel using the diluted packaged fuel alt but now I'm struggling with the maths for how much coal and sulfer i need

Currently I'm making 14400 packaged fuel a min

[unique cypress]

https://satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[vapid gorge]

satisfactory tools + spread sheets.
modeler is just a slog and takes longer

[unique cypress]

Or Satisfactory Optimizer. Has a lot of customizable optimization objectives while still doing all the math automatically. Unfortunately, it's json based

[limber spear]

would this balance belts properly with enough time ?

[unique cypress]

depends on the item rates

in general, no

[limber spear]

arrow size

inputs are 270 - 150 - 270

and i need to split that in 3 equal

[unique cypress]

belt tier? 3?

[wind spade]

why not hook each belt into the amount of machines it can feed?

[limber spear]

cause i have equal ammount of machines for not equal inputs

i also just wanna try

[wind spade]

well fair, but next time I'd recommend building machines according to what you have on belts, not the other way around

it's much simpler, and you don't have to do any belt shenanigans 😉

[unique cypress]

but instead you need to do machine shenenigans

[wind spade]

nah, not really

you just build the amount you are given by [your plan]

[vital flame]

im getting ready to rebuild my "main" factory that i have staged under my space elevator. (i built the elevator on top)

im gonna have a lot of shenanigans to cleanup/fix to get the amount of materials i want.

[unique cypress]

assuming each belt is connected to machines that have equal consumption, it'll work. but if the belts are free to move, it won't

[limber spear]

each machine eats exactly 270/min

wait no wrong number

[unique cypress]

wait no, it might not work regardless

brb gotta do the math

[limber spear]

i got it dw

i didnt need to balance at all

[unique cypress]

@limber spear You'd get this

assuming machines consume 230

with a priority merger it should work I think

or smart splitters

[limber spear]

i actually needed a 150 output so i just have a machine taking the raw 150 instead of equalizing all 3 belts

[wind spade]

see, I said it's easier that way 😛

[cinder prism]

man, do I make a ton of fuel and convert the polymer, or do I make a ton of rubber and use the residue for recycled plastic and fuel?

[unique cypress]

neither

HOR -> Diluted (Packaged) Fuel -> Recyled Rubber/Recycled Plastic loop

and the remaining Resin from HOR into Residual Rubber

[cinder prism]

I dont got blenders yet

[unique cypress]

you don't need blenders

Diluted Packaged Fuel uses Refineries

[cinder prism]

well, I dont think I got that recipe then

and what would I use the polymer resin for in that one?

[unique cypress]

^

[vital flame]

Polymner resin can be used for Fabric or rubber/plastic. Use a Refinery with water

[kindred carbon]

It’s ok to connect the end of these 2 fuel line right?

[umbral barn]

Is this a bug or intended?

I dont get why programmables splitters horizontal cost computers and ai limiters but vertical ones cost sc and motors?

[quick gorge]

. . . ain't... that the old cost of the programmable?

[unique cypress]

yep

[quick gorge]

Interesting

[unique cypress]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Programmable_Splitter#History

[kindred carbon]

These need heavy modular frames?

Way too expensive imo

[umbral barn]

yes

[unique cypress]

I don't think I've ever used one

[kindred carbon]

They’re useful if you like to mix items in your trains

[quick gorge]

I want to use them.. Just looking for a good reason too

[unique cypress]

1. smart splitters are enough for that
2. that's a terrible idea

[quick gorge]

Very mixed if you need more then smarts

sushi train

[umbral barn]

i used them in my storage facility

[kindred carbon]

The only solution to sushi trains is trains that have 2 locomotives right?

[umbral barn]

I only misclicked the programmable

[unique cypress]

why would the number of locomotives be relevant?

[umbral barn]

sir you can filter the freight platforms

[kindred carbon]

You need a locomotive on the front to go forward and one on the back to go backwards right

[umbral barn]

but still, thats a glitch right?

[umbral barn]

thats for push pull trains

[unique cypress]

yes. but why would a sushi train need to go backwards?

[kindred carbon]

No I meant the solution to sushi trains

[unique cypress]

how does that help with sushi?

[kindred carbon]

Actually never mind I understand trains all wrong lol

[vapid gorge]

why would you?

if you don't have to connect fluid systems up, don't

[kindred carbon]

I was having issues with fuel distribution but it was unrelated to balanced pipes and sloshing

(It was a mk1 pipe on an oil extractor)

[vapid gorge]

as in your pipe just wasn't fast enough?

[vapid gorge]

and I don't see why connecting fuel lines would fix mk1 pipes at the extractor

[kindred carbon]

No it was the pipe delivering crude oil to my refineries

[vapid gorge]

ok the comment I was replying to was you showing fuel gens asking if yo ushould connect them up. I don't know what that has to do with anything anymore

[kindred carbon]

So what I thought my original issue was that my pipes weren’t getting enough fuel because of slosh somewhere in the system or it was unbalanced pipes, my first thought was to connect the ends together, so I asked here if it was ok to connect them together here. But then I saw that my fuel generators were gradually turning off so I traced the issue to the diluted fuel refineries, and I saw these weren’t getting enough heavy oil, so I went back to my heavy oil referinjes and I saw they weren’t getting enough crude oil, and all of that was happening because I connect my oil extractor to the refineries with a mk1 pipe which I placed earlier but forgot to upgrade to mk2

[vapid gorge]

Ah, good good, you're getting the basic troubleshooting skills in.

you'd be surprised by how many people have a hard time with that

[prisma kraken]

yep, pretty common, debug by tracing back until you find the problem 🙂

also pretty common, besides a low capacity belt/pipe is that I forgot to clock the miner/extractor correctly

with experience, you start to develop a quick checklist of things to verify when you see issues

[vapid gorge]

and trouble shooting becomes much faster and easier

[unique cypress]

There are surprisingly few kinds of issues that you can have. Pinpointing where the issue is very easy. Identifying and fixing it, sometimes not so much, but being able to hone in on the location saves a lot of time

[crimson moat]

I have a few thousand broken belts from the 1.1 glitch

i either tested them right after placing or didn't test, and they all broke on reload

[fallow siren]

some of my lifts just straight up disconnected from the splitters

[dull jay]

i need some help doing some math, how do you do ratios for a final recipy that uses multiple other recipies that use the same resource? like for blended turbo fuel?

[wind spade]

Not sure what ratio are we talking about?

[dull jay]

for blended turbo fuel

[wind spade]

Yeah, but what "ratio" do you mean

[dull jay]

dieluted fuel and petrolium coke

then the final blended turbo fuel all use heavy oil

so im unsure how many machines to make for each one to make it have 100% uptime

[wind spade]

Just start at the end product and calculate backwards

[dull jay]

im not really sure what the total end product will be

i just know home much heavy oil i can make

using overclocked and sommersloop

[wind spade]

Start at end product, calculate backwards... that will give you the ratio

[dull jay]

im not really sure how to do that

i think i get what you mean tho

[wind spade]

Pick a final goal, how much you want to make. Work backwards to see how much you need. You can then scale that in any way you want

[frosty owl]

How?!?

I tried deleting (almost) everything else aside from the Ficsonium chain, removing all external connections (in/out of the "outpost" node) and yet I can't get it to calculate ores

Actually, it starts having serious issues even just with ingots...

Even before getting to ingots, the planner already takes ~10s to update every time

[daring prawn]

there’s a different calculation mode that is faster and doesn’t really change anything

i ran into that issue when i was using it for calculations for my endgame factory, it would take like 10 mins to load my calculations

[frosty owl]

Do tell, please 👀

[daring prawn]

hang on trying to pull up my laptop 😅 i’m at a friend’s place and don’t know the wifi password so i have to connect my phone

[frosty owl]

Ahah, no rush~

[daring prawn]

ok ok go to general settings and change calculation mode to “manual” instead of “full”, it still calculates all the numbers and i think only affects containers and splitters and mergers but i don’t use those anyways lol

idk why it’s so much slower bc for my uses it did all the exact same things

here's the info on it

[frosty owl]

Huh, weird that I missed that. Thanks!

[split sierra]

quick question, is there a trick to get pumps to align-snap?

also, ive always wondered if i can safely remove the floor holes i have used to shape the siphon

[amber umbra]

@split sierra I did consistent pump height by placing the pumps before any pipes. Pump snapped to highest position of 8 m tall wall.

[oblique hollow]

why the heck did you build a siphon?

[split sierra]

pressure

[oblique hollow]

you have pumps

the siphon does nothing more

[split sierra]

i tried but even when micro nudging it doesnt alighn quite properly 😦

[split sierra]

i'm not falling for the propaganda, i dont trust pumps over long distances

[oblique hollow]

you already fell for the propaganda. You used a siphon because you dont get pressure

[split sierra]

jokes aside i just thought it looked fitting since im dedicating that sides of the plant to fluid management

[oblique hollow]

if its just visuals thats fine

you can do whatever you want with pipes if its for visuals. Well, a lot of things. not literally everything
functionality wise, this does absolutely nothing. Head lift doesnt get changed by going up and then down again only to go back up

[split sierra]

since i'm using water at this height i just wanted to make sure Stevino wasnt lying

[oblique hollow]

well the pump head lift indicator, minus some small error of like half a meter, should tell you

or just reading the value off of the pump

if its not at 55 you are good

like.... the pump already has to pump it up to there.
If it can get it up there, then you know the pump can handle it on its own

[split sierra]

i know i know i just like my water pipes nice and streamlined at a central location

[frosty owl]

That's exactly what I needed, thanks!

[split sierra]

technically done, lets see if it actually performs as expected when i test fire the fuel plant in about 20 hours

flooded it just to see how they all gradually open up to full

[smoky mango]

I made a 4-4 balancer as neat as I could. so far it seems to work correctly but I feel like im missing something

[unique cypress]

the priority mergers should be normal mergers, but other than that it looks like a standard 4:4