math-and-meta

[covert basalt]

And the gens how should be placed? I saw at other people they somehow bring them like close and rotate them so the pipes are very close

[wind spade]

up to you really

[unique cypress]

Level and that's probably all that matters

[covert basalt]

So like let's say I build a row of 20 gens. I connect them all to a looped pipe then the looped pipe to the buffer?

[wind spade]

to your production. skip the buffer

[covert basalt]

I will

[smoky aurora]

me neither never any ,... not sure why here is pipes especially the 600m³ are so issiued 😄

[unique cypress]

Best if the manifold is double sided so there's fewer junctions

[vapid gorge]

shorter manifodls do help yes

[covert basalt]

What was the meaning of manifold again?

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[covert basalt]

Ah alright

[unique cypress]

Bro had that on speed dial lmao

[covert basalt]

Lol

Keep the real ones on speed dial

[unique cypress]

I actually managed to find one situation where I couldn't get a 600/min to work.
It was 15 HOR refineries feeding 20 DPF refineries, both long, single-sided manifolds

I'd never build a setup like that so I guess that's why I never ran into this issue

The problem appears to be on the production side, so single sided HOR manifolds connected to a 600/min oil pipe work fine

[vapid gorge]

yeah more input points = longer manifold

there's a point where even looped a manifold won't stay stable

[slate pagoda]

I mean the manifold just need time right

If I was to but 200 mashines next to eachother at some point stuff at the beginning overflowes stuff end up at the end

Or is this jusg about fluids cause then id agree

[vapid gorge]

not with fluids

[slate pagoda]

Ye ok

[crimson moat]

By holding the key opposite of current travel direction (S or W) , the Locomotive will use the regenerative brake. The regenerative brake will, depending on the current speed of the locomotive, generate up to 33 MW. By subtracting the base demand of 25 MW, this results in a net power gain of up to 8 MW.

You can power a (very low power lol) factory by riding a train of locomotives downhill with the breaks on, deleting it, going back up, remaking it then repeating

doesn't work IRL because lifting the train costs energy, but in Satisfactory there is no cost to lift stuff in your inventory

[merry kernel]

For liquid manifolds, gravity traps can work. Gas manifolds I am still theorycrafting a solution for.

I -think- carefully placed valves may work for gases but I need to do some testing. (With liquids, you run into a "bounce" issue with valves, I suspect gases may behave better.)

If that doesn't work I have an idea about a valve-buffer combination. Normally buffers are a bad idea with gases

[vapid gorge]

feeding from above does n't solve everything.

it can tilt thigns slightly more stable in some situations

[edgy leaf]

there's no problem with liquids that can't be solved with a pump

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure that's accurate xD

[merry kernel]

#1376232036620042360 message <- Not just feeding from above, using a design that traps backflow at every junction

[gloomy shoal]

I do recall the notion of using unpowered pumps as 1-way valves that don't futz with flow rate, but um

I think a lot of the grievances I've had are innate to the fluid system in general

[vapid gorge]

Never messed with wavey pipes, too ugly

[edgy leaf]

obviously math problems can't be fixed with pumps, or placing a valve the wrong way around. but everything else is fixed with more pumps

[merry kernel]

#screenshots message has my non-wavy design

It is single sided, however

[gloomy shoal]

I might have a look at those wavy pipes actually, I think it could work nicely

Really, the biggest fix would be if I could snap pumps/valves directly onto junctions

[vapid gorge]

I mean if you can make a 25 refinery on one side manifold work with just tons of pumps I'd like to see it, but you end up with tiny pipe sections between the m

[merry kernel]

I think the wave design looks nicer

[edgy leaf]

I never tried 25, but I managed to get 16 working by just adding more pumps/headlight

*headlift.

[quaint condor]

I really wouldn't even bother with him. He just likes to think he is an expert in all things satisfactory.

[edgy leaf]

he is an expert though

[merry kernel]

Valves don't fix the problem because whenever the far side is full you get a "bounce"

[edgy leaf]

pipes are just cursed and make everyone go insane

[vapid gorge]

Next time I play I'll try a 20 and see what happens

[quaint condor]

Ooooki doki...

[merry kernel]

I wojld expect pumps would exhibit the same behavior

[vapid gorge]

a 20, non crude oil/water system. Those tend to be more stable anyway

[vapid gorge]

they shouldn't unless the front is totally full, and you can't do much about that

[quaint condor]

No, they aren't. But if you would like to continue to follow that rhetoric 🤷‍♂️

[gloomy shoal]

Yeah, that's my thought about the pumps - as long as you have little segments somewhere, your system WILL shit itself eventually

[edgy leaf]

if pipes aren't cursed then why do I need over 50 meters of headlift to move water up 8 meters?

[vapid gorge]

it's possible, but I've kept systems as simple as possible so not much trial and error on this front

[quaint condor]

Because of your plumbing somewhere would be my guess 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

is the top of the rise in fluids a manifold?

[gloomy shoal]

I do want to hear your input on 600 pipes (other than my standing advice of "dont") if you have a better idea

[merry kernel]

600 pipes are fine for liquids. Gases are still an outstanding question

[vapid gorge]

this tends to fix any 600 pipe issues as long as there arent major layout issues

[quaint condor]

I am currently running 22 refineries off of one manifold, 35m up, one pump. It's all about keeping the flow spread even.

[edgy leaf]

that doesn't explain why headlift fixes it. it shouldn't, but it does. and you can't explain why.

[sullen phoenix]

Anyone have a modular engine and adaptive control unit factory that they would like to share? I could use some ideas.

[quaint condor]

Send me your save and I'll happily tell ya tonight after work.

[vapid gorge]

if this is in regards to your 8m rise with a manifold at the end sometimes you need a powered pump before the manifold on a horizontal placement to help stabalise it. Otherwise it's a little like feeding from below

[edgy leaf]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/67166f9bddb9d97e072058e1

here's all the results of my science experiment and a link to the save

[quaint condor]

Awesome, will peruse this evening

[gloomy shoal]

I've heard about the loopback thing and like
I haven't tested it in a hot minute but I don't know I believe that's the magic cure-all

Something to do with "full pipes are happy pipes" and not addressing sloshing so much as putting the problem somewhere else

[quaint condor]

It's a "magic cure all" because it allows the liquids to be more evenly distributed in the manifold. Same reason for an 8x coal plant you pump in both ends and the center

Too many think that you can just stick a single pipe on the end of a manifold pulling max flow and be "good" You have to distribute it evenly.

[gloomy shoal]

I
Huh, I've never had issues with coal specifically, though I usually downclock my water extractors to be 2 gens to 90 water

[merry kernel]

The loop works, usually, for smaller manifold sets. I've seen it stop working for sufficiently large manifolds.

[gloomy shoal]

Does make sense though, and historically I tend to ignore fluid balancing but ngl I might just. Need to load balance fluids like I do belts

[sullen phoenix]

Anyone?

[merry kernel]

I think the issue the loop sometimes runs into is that the loop itself starts backflowing to help fill the front of the manifold

[quaint condor]

Ok, breaks over. Will check out that save and post this evening.

[crimson moat]

Valves and pumps, especially unpowered ones, behave exactly the same in a normal system, i.e. they only let fluid pass one way and don't affect the flow rate.

[crimson moat]

There is certainly some weirdness with headlift going on in some complex pipe systems. It's difficult to diagnose

i have to do more digging in that area

would be helpful if you can document a known broken setup (i.e. works with powered pumps, but not without them)

[edgy leaf]

mcgalleon seems to have figured it out but I don't understand enough of what he says to verify that it's true lmao

[crimson moat]

@oblique hollow did you manage to condense this weird behavior into an easily explainable or testable form? 😄

[crimson moat]

you actually documented this rly well, i will take a look at the save xd

[oblique hollow]

Not entirely.

Must be a mix of pipe fill level in combination with head lift being passed on

I know that having pumps in regular intervals can help.
Sincs that helps to reset head lift more frequently
So perhaps head lift is passed on partially when a pipe is full but not overfilled

And with more head lift to pass on this means you arent as likely to "run out" of required head lift.

If a pipe ia full enough to only pass on 20% of head lift, having 100m is a lot more than 20m
0.2 x 100 is 20 after all

But i could not really prove that

[gentle wasp]

it blocked my code

maybe i can screenshot

this code uses sat solvers to determine if production requirements are reachable with the inputs

it uses a sat solver so that makes it SATisfactory

[wind spade]

interesting

I assume you wanted to just do it as a challenge?

[gentle wasp]

partialy yes but it could also be used to find the optimal awesome point production given some recourses

[wind spade]

solvers for that already exist

[unique cypress]

"solvers" might be a bit of a stretch, since I'm only aware of one (up-to-date) solver that can do that, but yes

[wind spade]

I know of at least 3 people who have such capable solver

[gentle wasp]

damm

im still gonna do it myself though

[worn glade]

would still be a very fun optimisation project

[gentle wasp]

im using a SAT solver so i dont have to do a lot

[worn glade]

well thats pretty good. but im more interested in just getting the raw numbers of the resources needed, not to see if its feasible, cuz once you can count the amount of resources required you could just tell if its feasible or not in your world

or even better to maximise the total amount of production of certain stuff

[gentle wasp]

yes

[sullen phoenix]

Is it better to look at output per minute or rate per minute when maintaining ratios/building factories?

[worn glade]

both work the same. just make sure you dont change the measurement mid calculation

[sullen phoenix]

Understood.

[wind spade]

what's the difference between those? I'm not sure that I know what you're talking about

[worn glade]

i think he's talking about production cycles

like fuel rods that have really low output but suddenly put out 2 or 3 after like 3 minutes

[wind spade]

well those are per craft, not per minute

since they mentioned both as "per minute", I'm confused

[worn glade]

honestly yeah i havent noticed that. they're pretty much the same

[gentle wasp]

i dug up my old program and updated it a little, the optimal way given the recipes to make Awesome points from 60 iron ore and a lot of power is this:
Rotor: 260/217
CastScrew: 3848/1085
PureIronIngot: 12/7
IronPlate: 312/217
IronRod: 1040/651
ReinforcedIronPlate: 208/217
WaterExtractor: 1/7
SmartPlating: 520/217
RecycleSmartPlating: 13/3255
Total Awesome Points: 540800/217

with no power and 90 coal per minute it chooses this:

SteelRod: 19242275/15824746
SteelScrew: 14801750/7912373
Rotor: 23090730/7912373
PureIronIngot: 12/7
SteelBeam: 14801750/23737119
CoalGeneratorCoal: 77019790/23737119
WaterExtractor: 43031251/31649492
BoltedIronPlate: 6157528/7912373
IronPlate: 15853884/7912373
SolidSteelIngot: 16350731/15824746
SmartPlating: 46181460/7912373
RecycleSmartPlating: 769691/79123730
SteelCastPlate: 15806656/23737119
Total Awesome Points: 48028718400/7912373```

[worn glade]

are these fractions? like 260/217 rotor is basically a bit more than 1 rotor per minute?

[gentle wasp]

yes

[worn glade]

thats interesting

cuz the amount of awesome points gained seemed a bit too much, but i honestly have no idea how awesome sink point system works so it might just be possible

[gentle wasp]

i havent taken into account nonlinear overclock formulas

also the Awesome points per minute is approx 6070

but the productions are in machines

so thats 12/7 refineries making pure iron ingot not 12/7 pure iron ingot per minute

[worn glade]

oh that was confusing. good that you cleared it up

[gentle wasp]

also no sloops, linear instead of nonlinear overclock, no transportation costs for pumps and trains, and not all recipes

[prisma kraken]

so i think i just finished working out how to get 1.5tw of nuclear+ficonium wasteless power, along with 4000/min ion fuel, a 30/15/15 phase 5 continuous production goal, a single fueled APA and some singularity cells for portals with honestly more resources to spare than i would have expected

[umbral barn]

Is it a good idea to use all of the uranium in the world for power?

[oblique hollow]

If you need it, go for it

Not needing it means you get a very annoying project on your hands

[slate pagoda]

I didnt know what do do after doing what I thought to be a crazy ammount of motors(50/min), i had 12 000 mw at that time, then i decided I never wanted to have power problems again and now ive spent triple the hours I spent on playing till phase 4 on this stupid powerplant.😭🫠

[oblique hollow]

I play, i develop some power problems, i build some more power, i keep going

[unique cypress]

it's certainly a large project

[slate pagoda]

I just do it once now and then ill never do it again :) theres so many subfactories that go into nuclear i would hate to expand on every single one each time i need power

[umbral barn]

How large we talking?

[slate pagoda]

It took me 300 hozrs so far and im just starting out with ficsonium

[unique cypress]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/xtsaa2/ive_just_finished_my_whole_map_uranium_project/

[slate pagoda]

Bunch of afk time in between, maybe like 50 hozrs?

[unique cypress]

and that's U6 so no ficsonium

but tbf doing max ficsonium is almost impossible

[slate pagoda]

Sam😡😡😡😡😡

[umbral barn]

Why so much afk??? Also should I wait to start nuclear until I can make plutonium?

[slate pagoda]

Because I ought to do stuff and leave the game running cause i forget? Or like yesterday when I feel asleep and left my game on🫠

[unique cypress]

you should wait until you have plutonium if you don't want to accumulate waste until you do

[slate pagoda]

I accumilated around 1 million waste untill i could handle it😭

[unique cypress]

I started up everything at once

[slate pagoda]

Ye I didnt kniw rocket fuel was was a thing untill I was halfway into the project so I couldnt do that😅

[oblique hollow]

I started out with a small nuclear plant. Without plutonium

[worn glade]

not almost. it is impossible. theres just not enough sam to make the heavy residue requirement unless you use a lot of quantom encoders to get it from excited, still very unlikely

[oblique hollow]

You can just temporalily overclock the plutonium procesing stuff

[worn glade]

youre missing out on a very cheap world of fun

[oblique hollow]

Or purposefully overbuild plutonium processing so you can then also upgrade uranium

[worn glade]

thats what i usually do. its better to have extra capacity than risk clogging with waste

[oblique hollow]

Eh im not much of a fan of idling plutonium processing lines

[worn glade]

whatever accurate number that comes out +10%

[oblique hollow]

Mine are set up pretty much exactly

[worn glade]

well lets hope no shock comes to your system then

[oblique hollow]

So far - nope, nothing

I even added a cheap ficsonium plant to the end of it

[worn glade]

well thats good. still better safe than sorry. im also the kind of person that likes doing stuff with accuracy but nuclear stuff is the exception

[unique cypress]

with sloops, it is possible

[worn glade]

oh yeah i forgot about sloops

[unique cypress]

and shards as byproduct probably

[umbral barn]

But aren't you unable to sink power shards?

[prisma kraken]

I now can conclusively say that 2000 uranium -> ficsonium for 1.5tw is doable

it took me a while to work through the numbers for map limits of coal and oil

in theory if you decided to forego making elevator parts, you ought to be able to push a no-waste ficsonium build that processes 2400 uranium

[worn glade]

they are sinkable i think. only radioactive stuff dont get sunk

[unique cypress]

true, they have to be sunk via ionized fuel

[worn glade]

oh so thats why people make ionised fuel. didnt knew that

[umbral barn]

It's also why you need turbofuel

[unique cypress]

do you?

[umbral barn]

Don't you need turbo to make it?

[worn glade]

turbo and rocket have their own merits and are worth researching, but this is useful too... as useful as ionised can be that is

[umbral barn]

Since it's turbo -> rocket-> ionoized iirc

[unique cypress]

you need rocket, which can be made from regular fuel

[umbral barn]

Then why the fuck does turbo exist?

[unique cypress]

Turbo diamonds I guess

[worn glade]

i dont think you can get to rocket without researching turbo. also diamonds or a better way to spend the coal that rocket production gives you

[umbral barn]

Rocket production gives you coal???? Wtf

[unique cypress]

compacted coal

[worn glade]

yea it gives back some comp coal

it is pretty useful for making more energy when your fuel overflows so that it wont shut down your entire oil productions

[umbral barn]

Ohh

[unique cypress]

ok, I checked and it is possible to make 152 FFRs/min and sink all the shards into ionized. And all you need is 23 sloops, all SAM, almost all bauxite and coal, most quartz, oil and nitrogen and half the sulfur and copper.

at least according to Satisfactory Optimizer

afaik it doesn't always do sloops correctly

[oblique hollow]

Because it existed before rocket did

Turbo walked so rocket could run

[unique cypress]

Eh, I never had a reason to do turbo. I made a turbo power plant exactly once. because I thought it was better than fuel. it's not

[worn glade]

thats impressive if true. still a very costly endeavor

[unique cypress]

you could make more, but this is using 2090 uranium as efficiently as possible

[oblique hollow]

Turbo only extends fuel.
If you have turbo available before you do rocket and if diluted isn't enough

[unique cypress]

using 2100 gives fractions so i'd say 2090 is probably the better choice

[worn glade]

good enough i say. thats already over 95% efficient

[unique cypress]

the only thing better about turbo is the oil efficiency. unless you're literally running out of oil, DF is just easier to make and doesn't take sulfur

[worn glade]

man i really need to make it so my file accounts for somers and shards as well. this has been throwing me off a lot

[sullen phoenix]

What does high specific strength mean here, in terms of physics?

[unique cypress]

strength to weight ratio

[river night]

specific strength is strength divided by density, so more strength for less material

[oblique hollow]

Restsitance to mechanical stress in relation to density

[prisma kraken]

it is a material science term

[sullen phoenix]

Ah~

I have probably read it during my physics class but don't quite remember it.

[vapid gorge]

probably more of an engineering thing tbh. Never really mentioned in university physics either

[vapid gorge]

Hey, does anyone know with power Augmenters, does it just give a boost of 10% to any power grid it's connected to?

cause I have a Stupid Idea

[vapid gorge]

@simple ibex it's usually more complicated than that sadly

this is a loop I use for bottom feeding, but even then you have to be very careful

[simple ibex]

nah xD dont tell me i gotta remake all this xD

what is that xD

[vapid gorge]

so you often need pipe loops to stabalise mk2 pipes. But it's a good stabaliser for most systems

fluid comes fro mthe right, and fed up those input pipes

[vapid gorge]

to help simplify it more I'd probably break down these refineries in such a way that you can have 4 groups of manifolds that are completely disconnected

[simple ibex]

i think the pumps solved the problem

at least seems to be working

gonna wait a bit and see

[nimble ridge]

i'm looking to make a power plant for my end game, whats a good target power level?

100,000mw? or more? i'll probably want to megabase a biome or two

[simple ibex]

well its working my power stabilized after like 10 minutes now im producing 6.5k instead of the 1.5k

[opaque quartz]

100GW is more than enough to finish the game with

[quaint condor]

But could you also do it with 'megabases' in multiple biomes you think?

[nimble ridge]

gamer, just to double check my math, thats roundabout 1700 rocket fuel/min yeah

sounds very doable

[opaque quartz]

10 RF/min makes 600 MW (one fuel gen running at 240% OC)

[nimble ridge]

cool cool checks out

[umbral barn]

So how can one get perfect thruput with trains? I'm asking for my future aluminum megaprocessing facility (when I get mk 6 belts i wanna process all of the world's aluminum in one place, use trains to move the baux and coke i just don't know how to get it to have perfect thruput like belts do)

[wind spade]

Usually you don't want to be at theoretical limit, since any small delay would lead to throughput loss

My recommendation is one belt per platform (obviously buffered)

[vapid gorge]

what greeny said.

there's formulae on the wiki if you want to math it out

[prisma kraken]

for ore, i try to stay under 600/min per car, for bigger stack items, you can move more per minute per car. in general, the more cars you split your transfer between, the higher the max throughput

also, almost any load you throw at a 4 freightcar train can more considerable distances

i can and do routinely move loads that exceed 1200/min per car, but with such things you're best to run some experiments and have a back-up plan such as adding a second train to the route

I'm of the school of thought that I'd rather just build and test the throughput and have an empirical answer rather than rely on the mathematical modeling that is posted on the wiki. The modeling is a simplification of what trains can do if you use multiple pickup and drop off stations and there's a lot of flexibility in route design that those models don't model

tl;dr don't be afraid to experiment

[slate pagoda]

Do yall every use the "once cart is full" setting on stations?

[vapid gorge]

I don't bother. I think if there's moderate differences with how long different platforms fill it could cause problems

[nimble ridge]

decided on doing it this way mostly for simplicity

do you think its worth it to use different alts for less machines/resources despite the complexity?

[opaque quartz]

nitro alt cuts out the nitric acid requirement and is simpler to build, but eats a lot more resources

HOR+diluted is definitely the way to go for the fuel base regardless

[nimble ridge]

i'm glad they added an alt for diluted packaged fuel

i mean, a replacement so i dont have to use that, lol

[opaque quartz]

its fine, just blueprint the refinery+packager+unpackager 1:1:1 - works as a poor man's blender basically

allows you to do HOR+diluted a phase earlier since you don't get blenders until phase 4

[nimble ridge]

well back when i still complained about that there werent blenders or blueprints lol

[opaque quartz]

haha, fair

[wind spade]

I still feel it should be slightly worse

[prisma kraken]

fyi, if you use turbo blend instead of default tf, it takes 900 oil + 600 sulfur and no coal for the same amount of rocket fuel. the tradeoff is personal choice, but i think the coal conservation is compelling

[thorn trail]

i ended up trying this crazy solution for rocket fuel and the numbers amazingly worked out fairly well for my purposes, very balanced across the inputs and a weird but manageable output number

[prisma kraken]

this is the design i use; i break it into 4 sections

[cold moth]

any body have a good idea what to do with 200 risduel olie resideu

[radiant plank]

Fuel ?

[cold moth]

i am making this factory but i stil have 200 heavy oil residue left over

[prisma kraken]

turn it into coke and either sink or burn it

[opaque thistle]

Or just use your compacted and the residue and do more turb

[unique cypress]

Simple. Do not use this garbage calculator

I suggest satisfactory tools, but you're free to find another one

Anything else will be better than SCIM's production planner

[cold moth]

why does it not calculate

[vapid gorge]

you need to check the compacted coal and turbo fuel recipe

[cold moth]

ohh thanks

[covert basalt]

how are you fueling them?

[unique cypress]

You need to turn recipes on. Preferably all of them, and then disable SAM

And then tweak it however you like

[vapid gorge]

They were trying to bottom feed the system and it's tricky

[vapid gorge]

imo, you're better off swapping recipes instead of turning them all on, much better control of everything going on.

[covert basalt]

ah

[umbral barn]

The. What?

[unique cypress]

Depart when empty/full

Makes the train depart only when all wagons have been emptied or filled

I use it on all of my trains

Because it guarantees maximum throughput and efficiency

[umbral barn]

Where the fuck is that setting i didn't know that existed...

[unique cypress]

In the stop settings

Click the gear next to a station in a timetable

[umbral barn]

Ohh

[slate pagoda]

When I have multiple carts on one train, doesnt a slow input rate to the trainstation then drag down fast ones? Do you also have multiple stations, each for every input/min?

[unique cypress]

Also, when using that setting, set the time delay to AND 0 seconds. If it's set to OR, the train won't always depart fully loaded/unloaded

[unique cypress]

Balancers :)

[slate pagoda]

Lol

Im starting to understand your passion as well

[unique cypress]

No matter how many items are on each belt, all wagons are loaded/unloaded equally

[slate pagoda]

Ye I guess you just.gotta make a station for each item though, im not gonna sushi😭

[unique cypress]

But yes, if you don't do that, the train delay will be decided by the slowest wagon

[unique cypress]

That's exactly what I do

[slate pagoda]

👍

[slate pagoda]

Sushi😭?

[umbral barn]

YOU CAN DELAY THEM? I THOUGHT THEY JUST SHOWED UP, DOCKED AND LEFT

[slate pagoda]

Nah ik all good you would never😎🍣

[unique cypress]

Nah, one item type per train lol

[umbral barn]

Sushi belts aren't that bad imo

[slate pagoda]

???

[umbral barn]

I use them all the time in my factories when I need to run basic components to assemblers or manufacturers or end products to storage

[slate pagoda]

Unless one has equal wells and equal usage for each item on the sushi its just no option

[unique cypress]

Depart when empty/full automatically decides the delay. If you set it to OR, it'll overwrite the other setting. If you set it to AND, it'll "add" to the other setting (kinda)

[slate pagoda]

And even in taht case im at a point where I work in dimensions where one belt of source material never suffices so nah

[unique cypress]

With 1.1's priority mergers, you can take the end of the belt, sort it, and merge back onto the supply belts

[umbral barn]

-.- I just use it because it's more efficient in terms of footprint

[unique cypress]

I'm pretty sure it'd work perfectly, but haven't tested it yet

[slate pagoda]

Oh sick

[slate pagoda]

Footprint?

[umbral barn]

1 belt carrying 8 items is smaller in terms of space then 8 belts carrying 8 items

[slate pagoda]

Ye ig

I gotta make a sick looking belt highway bp soon😭

Gonna be the first thing to look halfway decent after 500 hours of playing lol

[umbral barn]

I'm on 300 hours and I'm just now dipping my toes into proper factory building design

I used to just have compact floor of machines

No clipping belts, no nothing

Just make it take up as little space as possible

[crimson moat]

random stat: you can get like >1 mill sink points per hr just sinking ore with mk.3 miners and mk.6 belts

[slate pagoda]

Me too, my entire map is bp spam which I told myself to make it look good some other time.

~No~

[crimson moat]

yeah, hard lesson, "some other time" usually means never 😄

[unique cypress]

Meanwhile, I'm 1500 hours in, and the only thing I care about is having only right angles on my belt

[slate pagoda]

Per hr?????😭😭

[crimson moat]

Uhh, per whatever the display is. Is it per minute? 😄

[slate pagoda]

Lol, straight🗣

[slate pagoda]

Yes

[crimson moat]

1mill per minute then

[unique cypress]

1m would be 0.001

1M is 1000000

[slate pagoda]

Back to SI discussion😭

[slate pagoda]

Thats a thousand now

[unique cypress]

I've been a physics nerd for more than half of my life now, you can't blame me for being pedantic about untis

[crimson moat]

since when does 1 mill mean a thousand

[umbral barn]

I personally don't use many blueprints

[unique cypress]

me neither. mostly refineries and balancers, because they're a pita to build by hand

[umbral barn]

And blenders

I need a blender bp

Fuck hand building those things, they make me sad

[slate pagoda]

Me rn😎

[unique cypress]

that's a thousandth, not a thousand

[crimson moat]

1 millION

[slate pagoda]

Ik im wrong let a man sink with his ship ok

😎 😎 😎

[umbral barn]

Nerds

[slate pagoda]

The channel is called math and meta? What did you expect to find? frat party invites?

[umbral barn]

The fuck is a frat party? Better yet wtf is a party

[slate pagoda]

Oh boy

[slate pagoda]

How old are you?

[smoky aurora]

it not age its a US thing ,.. not any other Country makes it a big thing as big as in the US

[cold moth]

i am from the netherlands and even i know what it is.

[smoky aurora]

congrats ,.. you are one of the few knowing the wording frat party

outside us

[slate pagoda]

Ok to explain to those who are not of american culture: A party is where people of delusion drink substances to convince themselves that they are having fun, a frat party is where kids of rich parents who sent them to college drink substances to convince themselves they are having fun but they end up finding out they now have all sorts stds weeks after

[slate pagoda]

Me too I am german, its hard to miss early 20's american media when thats like half of youtube and instagram

[smoky aurora]

we all should know what a party is ,...

as it seem you are from the US and for you this obviously is a totally normal thing ,...

[smoky aurora]

okay ,.. but its defintly not a common word over here ,.. and most people only know from media ,..

the younger / newer geneartion les than the "older gen"

[slate pagoda]

Brother its not that deep the guy asked a sarcastic question and i gave him a stupid answer

[smoky aurora]

but thx to you i learned a new word ,..

i just didnt like the comment
"i am from the netherlands and even i know what it is."

[slate pagoda]

Ok, im glad someone learned something

[umbral barn]

Im an adult I'm just not social TwT

[plucky tusk]

#off-topic-general

[covert basalt]

what do i do if my manifold isn't bringing items to the end?

[oblique hollow]

Make a better one

[cold moth]

it has to prime (fill al the way up) or your system using to much items or you belds/pipes can transport enough.

[oblique hollow]

Connect your input pipe to the middle of the manifoldy not to the end

And make every pipe that doesnt NEED to be a mk 2 pipe into a mk 1

[covert basalt]

oh that makes sense. ill just make more canisters

[oblique hollow]

If you make diluted fuel, its usually better to just do the canister loop closed per refinery

Not one giant canister loop that connects evety packager

[unique cypress]

Manifolding DPF... My condolences lmao

[covert basalt]

removing some buffers from this factory deadass made everything work

why do they break liquid flow

[oblique hollow]

Fluid goes in, fluid goes out

Especially if you got multiple ones

lots of sloshing

[covert basalt]

almost all of my gens are starting to get turbofuel

almost is the funny word

[wind spade]

Big pipe, big flow changes, bad for network. Pracyically never needed in any system

[crimson moat]

1 huge advantage for satisfactory modeller

If you have a factory with a high level of complexity, you can end up needing e.g. quickwire in 2 places, and have the optimal way to build that be leached caterium.

Tools takes this and makes a monolithic block of leached caterium for caterium ingots, then draws a line from them to A and B.

With a large factory plan, this inevitably results in many overlapping lines - and there is no way to avoid them, because wherever you put the Caterium Ingots node, some of the destinations will be across line/s.

On Modeller, instead of having a single node making all of your caterium ingots, you can make 2 nodes (say one making 70% of them for thing A, and another making 30% of them for thing B) and then you can lay them out so that lines and products don't have to cross over each other.

Might sound like a little thing but it really adds up when 3 different things each need to be in 3 different places and you just get a blob of lines

[unique cypress]

Imma be hones, I have never cared

If the graph is a huge mess, there's always the item breakdown list

[crimson moat]

This is of limited help

if i were using exclusively tools, i would be breaking stuff into smaller and smaller tabs to emulate that functionality

[unique cypress]

expand the item and it tells you how much goes where

[deft lichen]

I do that and it works fine

[oblique hollow]

The only place i seriously used leached caterium thus far was for Ficsite

[crimson moat]

It just says this, in this case:

Like yeah it's making leached ingots and turning them into quickwire, but 3 different things are using that quickwire at opposite ends of the build. This tab does not indicate that at all.

[oblique hollow]

I had a nuclear setup that was already doing sulfuric acid.
Needed Ficsite for Ficsonium. So i went with the Caterium path

[crimson moat]

Just an example

[oblique hollow]

Yeah just an example from my end. The other factory that does caterium is my wire + quickwire one that does pure cat and copper into fused wire and quickwire

[unique cypress]

I always put an entire factory in one tab and it's fine 🤷

[crimson moat]

"fine" and "ideal" are not the same thing, and it's something that gets probably 4x more bad for every 2x increase in build complexity

[unique cypress]

splitting into tabs would make it confusing

[oblique hollow]

"fine" vs "ideal" vs "this is how i wanna work with it"

[unique cypress]

I built a nuclear plant from a single Tools plan

[oblique hollow]

Might confuse you, ok, yo its nit for you

I wouldn't ever put all in one plan

I hate consolidated messes like that

[crimson moat]

Go to ficsonium and make a project assembly every 15mins in that plan and get back to me. It turns into spending 90% of your time trying to figure out which lines are going where because of it being a bowl of spaghetti that all overlaps

[opaque quartz]

I’m actually contending with this limitation right now. Making a giant BWD factory for funsies but planning on slooping a number of the intermediate production steps. So I can’t have it all in one plan

[unique cypress]

I built a 10/10/2.5/2.5 P4 factory in U6. From a single Tools tab.

[crimson moat]

That's much smaller than what i said

[unique cypress]

size doesn't matter. complexity does

[crimson moat]

it's much less complex than what i said too

but yeah you are right about it being complexity that matters

not really scale factor

[unique cypress]

I haven't automated ficsonium or p5 yet so...

[crimson moat]

Yeah, i have and i am just saying in my experience this is where that part of Tools starts to break down and become a lot less helpful, whereas Modeller handles it in a really graceful way

it just gives you more options, but some of those options are objectively better IMO

cannot get rid of most of these overlapping lines, it's just mathematically impossible to do so

[unique cypress]

you mean to tell me you put all of this in one location?

[crimson moat]

Yeah

The more complex the build, the more external tools and planning are required and the harder they get pushed 😄

stuff which is not ideal becomes a much larger problem

By splitting some nodes into two, three, four nodes of the same material (but not 100% of the quantity in one node), Modeller allows you to plan this with zero overlapping lines IF you want to do that.

And i find that much easier to read and manipulate in a useful manner

tl;dr: Being able to split up a single node into multiple smaller ones which can be placed elsewhere on the chart allows for drawing a chart without overlapping lines, and thus improving readability

[unique cypress]

I put all of my machines making one item in one place so that'd make it less readable

[crimson moat]

Just don't use the option then? If you don't care and it's an option, i don't really see what the argument is

Am just saying that Modeller has the option to do this, and this makes things easier for me when doing X task

[oblique hollow]

I put stuff wherever I want even if if its duplicate or now.
Because ✨ factory design is my passion ✨

[prisma kraken]

the graph visualization i really don't find helpful from such tools. it grows too large and doesn't really tell you anything that a list view of how many machines for each recipe you need

[wind spade]

that's why Tools have other views 🤷

[opaque quartz]

I tried to give modeler a fair shake to do exactly what you are describing, but quickly decided the tool is simply not polished enough. So I’m doing everything in a Google sheet instead, using SF tools for production sub-plans

[nimble ridge]

i broke ground and did most of the pipe plumbing, its goin well

i'm glad i decided to lay this factory out flat

[prisma kraken]

yeah, fuel power really benefits from a flat layout

i kinda did the same with a comparably sized build. fuel is on the top half of the tracks, the bottom half is 5400/min recycled plastic

[unique cypress]

all liquids do

[prisma kraken]

i don't mind pumping liquids up, but my fluid builds have a general downward flow

this is quite a common pattern for me

[covert basalt]

anyone got any idea on why is this happening?

my unpackegers are full of unpacked fuel because there isn't space for fuel to travel anymore

[plucky tusk]

If my phone could load the video hahaha

[covert basalt]

discord on phone sucks

💔

[plucky tusk]

Keeps getting stuck at like 7 seconds

[covert basalt]

try enabling moblie data that's what i sometimes do

[plucky tusk]

Its all enabled im just on 1 bar

Ok it loaded.

So ur just low on fuel then ?

[covert basalt]

no

wait

hold on

bruh...

i just realized that my empty canisters aren't going fast enough, blocking the operation of the fuel to be extracted

the manifold is too hard causing the item to stack

removing the stuck empty canisters boosted my power level from 7000w to 11,000

but not for long since it will still add up

[plucky tusk]

Stick an overflow on it into a sink

Thats how did my canister loop for my nitrogen trains

[slate pagoda]

Just make the once and loop them???

[plucky tusk]

U can do that too

I dont need the aluminum yet but ill do that when i do

Also in the process of upgrading aluminum

[covert basalt]

that's what i did. but the belt was going slow and it started overflowing. but i just did another belt on the opposide side of the other belt

[slate pagoda]

I huess maies sense when youre using traisn one trip will always be faster then the other one

[covert basalt]

it's not a long distance

the belts with the gray stuff is the problem ive been talking about

but now that there are 2 it works better

[crimson moat]

you're overloading your pipes, they have limited flow rate

[covert basalt]

so what should i do?

[crimson moat]

connect fewer unpackagers to each pipe

by making more pipes

[covert basalt]

im not really sure i understand how i should design it

[crimson moat]

Put 1 unpackager to 1 pipe

rather than like 15 unpackagers into 1 pipe

[covert basalt]

ohh but the unpackager isn't the problem

it's the refinery

the fuel from them aren't getting at the end of the pipe

[crimson moat]

same problem, too much fluid in too few pipes

[covert basalt]

do you think a valve might help?

[crimson moat]

no

It's like you try to move 200/min on a mk1 belt (60/min)

you need more belts (pipes)

[covert basalt]

ah

[covert basalt]

actually i fixed it. if you see how the pipes were designed in the first video and the video from above you can see the first video the pipes had more junctions. i made that to make it look better. by removing them and leaving less, i was able to make the fluid fully transport

[covert basalt]

it now works

thanks

[plucky tusk]

How much power that baby pump out

[slate pagoda]

Two million

[plucky tusk]

Nice

2 million kw

[quaint condor]

5

[slate pagoda]

No just regular watts

[unique cypress]

what is a "w"?

[slate pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/say-my-name-meme-say-my-name-walter-white-heisenberg-breaking-bad-gif-24564124

[covert basalt]

Deadass I now have new problems with the pipes

I really gotta watch a tutorial

[crimson moat]

It's really not that complicated, just don't attach so many things to one pipe

every pic/video you have 20 things connected on one pipe

[vapid gorge]

the same system you were working on before or a new one?

[covert basalt]

The problem is that I already did that and I really do not want to redesign it

[covert basalt]

Completely new system

[vapid gorge]

throw out some over head images of what you're doing. I've got a bit of time to trouble shoot 🙂

[crimson moat]

building a system that follows basic good practices is a lot easier and faster than duct taping a bad one

[covert basalt]

Tutorial was from 5 years ago but it was the only one that could fit cuz all of the tutorials used blenders😔

[covert basalt]

I just closed my pc. It's almost 1am too. Maybe tomorrow

[slate pagoda]

So mee rn

[vapid gorge]

fair enough 🙂

[thorn trail]

never underestimate the power and usefulness of duct tape

[covert basalt]

I'll just ping you tomorrow when I post the images

[slate pagoda]

I cant be btoehered to fix my setup rn even though im so close to finishing the project

[vapid gorge]

feel free to ping me

[wind spade]

well that's why I wouldn't follow online tutorials 😛

[slate pagoda]

😭😭😭 no trust me shes right

[vapid gorge]

it's almost 8 am for me xD

[covert basalt]

I already wasted 10 hours on the old design that was made by me and I had to spend another hour completely deleting it

It wasn't working at all

[slate pagoda]

CET warrior right here😎🇩🇪🇩🇪

[thorn trail]

i'm just saying to be careful about bad-mouthing duct tape, that stuff is downright awesome

[covert basalt]

I'm not experienced enough to make my own designs. At least with pipes

[slate pagoda]

Oh like the literal product?

[covert basalt]

Who bad mouthed duct tape? That shit literally awesome

[wind spade]

you don't learn that by copy-pasting tutorials
you learn it by experimenting and building it yourself

[slate pagoda]

Hell yeah

[vapid gorge]

I'll get you up to speed with basic and reliable set ups 🙂 go sleep

[plucky tusk]

Watt

[covert basalt]

I didn't copy paste. I learnt it💪

[unique cypress]

that's a W

[covert basalt]

Alright yo🙏

[plucky tusk]

🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓

[slate pagoda]

Omg

[covert basalt]

Good night yall

[wind spade]

following a tutorial isn't really learning

[slate pagoda]

Youre the search engine shouldnt you be correct all the time

[slate pagoda]

Following a calculus tutorial taught me more then my teacher did

[covert basalt]

Actually I learnt from it on how to make fuel by using diluted fuel. And using an efficient design too. Anyway I never actually use tutorials for satisfactory unless it's pipes lol

[wind spade]

efficient design just means that machines run at 100%

that word is so overused

[plucky tusk]

More like i dont care enough to capitalize the w

[unique cypress]

and yet not having all machines running at 100% isn't particularly inefficient

[plucky tusk]

If it bothers u that much come over and press caps for me

[wind spade]

eh, it's just what the game calls "efficiency" 🤷

[unique cypress]

should be called uptime or similar imo

[oblique hollow]

technically its called productivity ingame

[unique cypress]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Productivity_Display it is!

it used to be called efficiency display

[crimson moat]

It still is. This is the main UI which refers to it:

It's actually news to me that there is an ada voiceline which uses a different name, i learned it as "Efficiency stat" from the game itself some months after the 1.0 release and didn't realise that there was any other name

[unique cypress]

That 1.0 or 1.1?

[crimson moat]

must have missed it, but i did go back and re-read this UI several times and also google it to figure out what it was doing

[crimson moat]

live game

[unique cypress]

? 1.0 or 1.1?

I'm asking because they've renamed screw recipes to screws (they were just called screw)

[crimson moat]

the version on steam right now, mainline

[unique cypress]

Both are available on steam

[crimson moat]

And one of them is beta, so not live or mainline

[unique cypress]

Ok, I checked and it's the same in 1.1

They probably forgot to rename it lol

Because I'm pretty sure it was consistently called efficiency before

[umbral barn]

middle and left are 250% while right is 100%, how do i balance these out into 2 mk1 pipes?

[vapid gorge]

the safest option is to make it 4 blenders and not have the two systems connected

[umbral barn]

why 4?

wait couldnt i theoretically use valvles to cut machine 3s output between the two?

[vapid gorge]

valves don't work the way people think they do and generally cause issues

[umbral barn]

ik they take a % if not full

50% of 100 is 50

[vapid gorge]

keeping fluid systems split and independent as much as possible keeps it simpler for flow and troubleshooting

yes but the yalso don't effectively stop back flow.

You're better off putting powered pumps down

if you insist on keeping it three blenders, make hte middle one 100% and flood the whole system.

you may need pumps on the middle one facing each way to make it a bit more stable though. It can be finicky

[plucky tusk]

Stick 1 input on either side and then balance clock speeds across

[vapid gorge]

@long bridge , look at how much a mk1 pipe can move pm, look at how much you're trying to move

[long bridge]

what do you mean?

[vapid gorge]

you were talking about coal gens in someone elses post

[long bridge]

yes i told him that he was trying to draw way too much water for a mk1 pipe

[vapid gorge]

ah woops pinged wrong person , soz

[long bridge]

np 🙂

[oblique hollow]

Well ,yes you can in theory use valves. But usually you wanna try to have it seperate if possible

Why not just do 200% on all 3 anyway

[slate pagoda]

Can you balance fluids? Is that a thing that works reliably?

[vapid gorge]

technically? yes
practically? no

[edgy leaf]

they balance themselves

[vapid gorge]

that is only as accurate as 'manifolds balance themselves'

[slate pagoda]

Thought so🫠

[vapid gorge]

I mean if you really want you cand do a fluid load balancer. It's more obnoxious than belt ones

[wind zinc]

And its actually just straight up useless too

[vapid gorge]

I mean so is belt load balancing, you do it cause you like it

think building in circles has a benefit?

[oblique hollow]

balancing has some* use

mk 2 at max flow require it a tiny bit

Thats what the loops technically do. But simply doing an equal split once and then manifolding is sufficient too

[covert basalt]

hey @vapid gorge are you free to help me troubleshoot the pipes?

[vapid gorge]

yeah go for it. over head images of your set up 🙂

[covert basalt]

alright let me start up the game

[covert basalt]

this is the zone with the problem

fuel isn't going to the end

leaving refineries on hold

each pipe progressively gets smaller cantities of L

last pipe has 0.3

[vapid gorge]

kinda hard to tell what is going on, why does one part of the loop have 2 pipes stacked?

[covert basalt]

i tried to make to connect the end to the start

[vapid gorge]

can you show me what it looks like at the other end?

[unique cypress]

2 things:

1. put the main pipe next to the refineries a few metres above the outputs
2. do not cross-connect the pipes. 7 refineries connected to some number of generators and repeat that 4 times, 4 independent pipes

oh, and I'd get rid of the second pipe looped to the end. It has never helped me

[covert basalt]

WAIT I ACIDNETALLY FIXED IT

every signle gen is now getting fuel

[vapid gorge]

I mean that's nice, but there's definitely still layout issues to avoid here

[covert basalt]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

come back to it in 20 minutes
there's often issues with the previous step before the fuel burning you only discover after fixing the final step

[covert basalt]

i fixed it by adding more empty canisters and more water bottles. because on the converyer belt, there was a bit of space between items and that slowed down the refiners from getting the packed water

[vapid gorge]

doing packaged fuel in a manifold is also definitely an issue if not done right xD

can't be a simple manifold essentially

[unique cypress]

yeah, manifolding canisters for DPF is a terrible idea. 1:1:1 loops are much better

[covert basalt]

it's getting enough fuel to somehow edge it😂

everytime it ends new fuel gets in and it doesn stop

[vapid gorge]

the containers or fuel gens?

[covert basalt]

refinery

[vapid gorge]

well come back to it in 15 min 🙂

[covert basalt]

everything is now full of packaged water

[covert basalt]

why?

i think i managed to do a perfect loop

[vapid gorge]

like I said before, there's often issues with previous steps that crop up once the fuel gens are fixed

[covert basalt]

ah

well for now it works. im so happy it's capped at 11,000mw and it doesn't go down

11,000mw from 66 gens. and i only added 2 power shards to only 11 gens

that's crazy. imageine 66 full of shards

[vapid gorge]

sharding a bunch of fuel gens is often done

[covert basalt]

yeah but i don't have enough shards

[vapid gorge]

were you slooping your shards?

[covert basalt]

yep..

[vapid gorge]

better get some more slugs!

[covert basalt]

the syntetic powerd shards are done using what items?

[unique cypress]

tier 9 stuff

!wikisearch power+shard

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=power+shard

[covert basalt]

im cooked 💔

im only tier 6

[vapid gorge]

enough slugs on the map for like 5000 shards

[covert basalt]

YO WHAT

[unique cypress]

5500 iirc but I could be wrong

[covert basalt]

frr??

[vapid gorge]

there are slugs everywhere xD

[covert basalt]

i thought there were like 200-300

[vapid gorge]

and then you sloop them

purple slugs do 10 shards slooped

[unique cypress]

5318 exactly

unless some slugs are still inaccessible without going OOB

[slate pagoda]

I just ragequit gases im about to pull my hair out. I never thought i'd use stupid packagers😡

[oblique hollow]

Whats the matter

Its just like any other fluid, just with no head lift.

That no head lift part does make it act a bit different but not much

[slate pagoda]

Im having buffer throughout issues, like my buffers are full and its still not max flowrate

[oblique hollow]

Yeah thats the one big difference

[slate pagoda]

Lmao

[oblique hollow]

Flow rate is directly proportional to how full a pipe or buffer is. That's the big difference when you have no head lift

If you need 600/min, then you are indeed better of using packagers.

Bottles hold 4m3 of gas

[slate pagoda]

Aight

Does the gas get "trapped" in the top of the buffer?

[oblique hollow]

No it doesnt get trapped, it can exit

But the gas velocity decreases the less a pipe or buffer is filled

Half full pipe or buffer means you get half the maximum pipe flow rate

[slate pagoda]

Oh ok makes sense now, so transporting gas via train is impossible?

[oblique hollow]

You can do it, but its not very economical anyway.

If you need 600/min, you cant really buffer it very well

So thats where packaging is recommended. It gives you 4 x more throughput too that way

[slate pagoda]

Ok makes sense. Ill just switch the fluid platforms with normal ones and package I guess

[oblique hollow]

You dont need many packagers thankfully

[slate pagoda]

Ye I saw the recipie is crazy

600 in is a blessing

[oblique hollow]

A single train car can, depending on the belt you use, effectively haul 6000/min gas

[slate pagoda]

Sheeesh

Wait thats insane I dont even have to lay a belt across the map I can just send it back via train if the throughput is that insane

[oblique hollow]

With mk 5 the limit is around 4000 to 5000/min

Per platform

[slate pagoda]

I got mk6 so no worries

[oblique hollow]

Yeah with mk 6 you can go full banana

[slate pagoda]

And im transporting 2k across the map so ig ill be fine

[unique cypress]

you can even get nearly 7200/min (7172.20768 by my math)

[oblique hollow]

2 cars or so can effectively handle all the nitrogen on the map

[plucky tusk]

I just got 2 trains. One bringing empty cans the other bring full can back

[oblique hollow]

There only like 12k/min nitrogen

[slate pagoda]

Well thanks for the help, I thought i was incompetent, but its just gas.😡

[oblique hollow]

Skill checked by Gas

[slate pagoda]

Even though im german🤞😭

[unique cypress]

I only had issues with gas because I refused to use the default stop settings

and fluids can't be balanced so depart when empty/full doesn't work

[oblique hollow]

Gas basically balances itself

It tries to fill every pipe an equal amount

[unique cypress]

and yet i ended up with only one platform supplying nitrogen right before the train departed and the 1200/min 1 platform can supply wasn't enough

[vapid gorge]

yes we've gone over it, gases behave poorly in buffers

[opaque quartz]

I always use drones for nitrogen gas for this reason. Handles the empty tank return loop nicely too

I’ve tapped all but two nitrogen wells in my current save, all of them w drones

[slate pagoda]

Yo kyo could you dm me your cool balancer sheet?

[unique cypress]

I don't think I ever said I had one?

[slate pagoda]

You sent one once i thought ir was yours lol

[unique cypress]

the only "collection" of balancers I have is this
https://imgur.com/a/TnomMFk

it's not mine, and some of them are incorrect

whenever I sent a balancer diagram, I made it to answer a question

[slate pagoda]

Oh okay thx

[unique cypress]

if you want a specific one, I can draw one for you

[slate pagoda]

I need a 4x4

Bit i found one, thx regardless!

[tulip portal]

anyone willing to discord call to help me debug some pipe problems?

[wind spade]

best is to make a post in #1038092680493801533 and include screenshots and description of your problem

people can't know if they can help you in voice, so better to describe your problem and when person knows the answer, they will reach to you

(and in general, most people prefer to use text over voice)

[tulip portal]

the idea was to stream and walk them through the situation, the factory is massive and complex and i feel it would be much more difficult to try to exp[lain over text

[wind spade]

but imagine this: a person comes, says they may be able to help, you spend time explaining the issue, at the end the person says they can't help
you have to repeat this number of times, every time explaining the same thing again, until you find someone who actually can help

it's way better to explain it just once in text + screenshots (or record screen with voiceover if you really want to do that)

also kinda related: https://dontasktoask.com/

[digital crow]

I'm struggling with the middle three here, not sure on what I do beyond split the pipeline into a third batch of extractors

[wind spade]

how much water is going to each pipe?

also, pumps are pointless for horizontal movement

[unique cypress]

why did you put pumps on the top pipe?

[digital crow]

I haven't made such an expansive pipe setup before

Adding pumps in these two spots seems to have helped out, but are there other changes I can make to the system?

[unique cypress]

I suggest you do some math

how much are you putting into a pipe and how much the generators connected to it consume

[slate pagoda]

Holy fuck after 300 hozrs im finally done with stage one nuclear power😭😭😭😭

[unique cypress]

damn, when I did max nuclear in u6 and u8, both times it took me about 300 hours to do both stages

[slate pagoda]

All I have left to do is build the plants for plutonium and ficsonium and actually get to crafting ficsonium which will be a pain in the but, but not even close to complex as what im donw with

[nimble ridge]

just finished my power station for transitioning to late mid game

man does it feel good to see 480 generators running stable on a manifold. pipes suck sometimes.

[nimble ridge]

@crimson moat

i do not have the money to upgrade my pc, nor do i plan to. the ram is pretty old, and the cpu is a little slow in the cores

[crimson moat]

just be aware if you're ever interested later that 5700x3d/5800x3d works on same socket and is prolly close to 2x faster 😄

[nimble ridge]

thank you, money problems notwithstanding i'll keep that in mind. i do plan to upgrade my cpu + ram eventually, but i'm cool to stay a little behind the trends for a while.

[vapid gorge]

did you manage to math out how much water you're moving , how much is needed and , importantly, how much a pipe can handle?

[cosmic stratus]

uranium fuel units seem way better than vannila fuel rods, am i wronf in this observatio or na

[quaint condor]

OK, so I am aware that miners have the 'lag time', the time it takes ore to start flowing after power is applied, but do all machines have this? I've never really paid attention, just always noticed it on miners...

[vapid gorge]

define 'better' in this case

[faint epoch]

a very tiny amount i believe

[cosmic stratus]

only slightly harder for considerable improvement

[vapid gorge]

oscilators will probably add in a whole extra resource type you need to manage and you then need rotors.

The main point is that it's not nescesarilly strictly better

if you're not using 100% of the possible uranium on the map it's probably easier to just bring in more uranium ore

[cosmic stratus]

true

[prisma kraken]

yeah uranium fuel unit does significantly increase the production chain complexity. absolutely worth the effort if you need the power

[vapid gorge]

unless perhaps you're not using all the uranium yet.

[opaque quartz]

I believe the miner lag is just the time it takes for the animation for the miner drill bit to enter the node

Well pressurizers have a somewhat similar warm up animation IIRC

[quaint condor]

Yeah, And I was wondering mostly about water extractors, and if there is that 'lag' if that can introduce 'gaps' in the fluids if you weren't consuming enough and it was starting/stopping. But, then again probably just an initial thing I'd gather. And also why it has an internal 'buffer'.

Just random thoughts while building lol.

[opaque quartz]

lol

Shower thoughts, but not in the shower

[quaint condor]

Lol, exactly what I started typing before thinking, wait, I'm not in the shower, just building.

[slate pagoda]

I agree

In the uranium chain, you need oscillaotrs for getting RCU(pressure conversion cube) and the other plutonium fuel rids recipie anyways so, so addding thos couple other ones is prwtty easy

[cosmic stratus]

plus, ur building ur long term power, why arent u building it up that much

[slate pagoda]

Because its a massive project that takes at least 200 hours if your doing it for the first time

People much rather build oil rigs😄

[cosmic stratus]

yeaaa

they arent amazing either tho to be fair

[atomic folio]

Amma head to sleep. But feel free to reply ping if you wanna answer.

Whats the best aluminum tier alt recipes? Except you cant say sloppy alumina

[wind spade]

I won't, because there's no "best" 🙂

[atomic folio]

God damn it greeny- XD

Im comming for your shins

[prisma kraken]

'best' is sorta tricky. sloppy + electro + pure or instant + pure give you 1:1 bauxite to ingot. if you use default solution and use electro scrap, then default ingot and supplement it with silica, you get a higher yield, and then sloppy + electro + default ingot with half the world's quartz made into silica gives the highest yield.

[digital crow]

It’s all mk1 pipes, they’re pretty much at a fixed rate

[craggy zinc]

Why is the coal not reaching the last coal plant

[steep hound]

holy spaghetti. It is reaching right? i see coal going to the coal plant.

[craggy zinc]

it reaches but it is so little that is keeps turning off and on and causing my grid to flip

[steep hound]

Add some more biomass burners to the grid. You are using a manifold lane so the first coal plants will get filled up first. You might need a t2 belt for everything.

[faint epoch]

keep the coal grids turned off except the first couple that recieve the most until all are completely full, takes a while for manifolds to fully stock up

[steep hound]

Also you are merging 3 t1 belts into a single t1 belt?

[faint epoch]

that needs to be t2 or t3 if u have them,

[craggy zinc]

My entire system is T2 is just looks weird

[faint epoch]

also those pumps on the right donts have to be that close together

[steep hound]

if your merging 4 t2 lines into a single one the single one cant transport all the coal

[craggy zinc]

it

it's splitting off

[steep hound]

if your mining a pure note you get 120 a minute that's exactly the amount t2 can handle try running one line from the miner to the coal plants en split them

[faint epoch]

try to divide the coal belts between ur coal gens instead of merging them all into one

[craggy zinc]

I've been doing that by having one belt going to the last gen and then having splitters along the way going to each of the others, but it just ends up filling up some of the gen lines while the ones at the back run out

[faint epoch]

no as in dont merge them all into 1, take 1 coal belt and divide it into 3 of the gens, the other belt for the other 3, and then the last 1 for the last 2

you will have a little pile up of coal but u can tweak the overclock of the miners until u get t3 belts

[steep hound]

coal generator needs 15 coal per minute just wait for the first ones to fill

[vapid gorge]

it looks like you have a throughput issue here

but honestly you're probably going to wan to rebuild this. One place you don't want mess is your power system

[craggy zinc]

I've been managing to push the problem down the road a bit to just attempt and keep my grid alive while I figure out a solution, this is what I am now using

[faint epoch]

i would disconnect ur factory if u are really cutting it on power and have the coal gens and water gens fill up the coal and then launch them, reconnect ur factory, and keep an eye of the amount of coal and water being used

[steep hound]

you know if you hold ctrl building will line up with others

[faint epoch]

im temted to send a screenshot and u just try and copy

[vapid gorge]

yeah disconnect your factory, rebuild this

!wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

some simple layouts for 8 generators

[fallen otter]

why would you divide 3/3/2....divide in half for each side of 4, then divide in half two more times in each side, 8 is a power of 2...

everything is divided nice and evenly that way

[faint epoch]

thats smart actually

[steep hound]

i just used 2 coal nodes for 48 coal generators

[faint epoch]

but he doesnt have a high enough tier of a belt for all the coal to sit on the one belt

[steep hound]

you just need t2 belt

[vapid gorge]

that's just load balancing. A manifold works jsut as well

[fallen otter]

well youre limited by your max belt on what you can output from a single miner

[faint epoch]

my brain just stopped working sorry

[steep hound]

you need 120 coal per min 2x

[fallen otter]

ya then youd need two miners if 120 is your max belt currently

[steep hound]

ye

[craggy zinc]

okay so I managed to get my power set up

But now, I need to get optimize my Reinforced Plates, I have 2 assemblers producing 5 Plates per min each so a total of 10 per min

[steep hound]

is it running at 100%?

the efficiency

[fallen otter]

thats probably plenty for early game, youll also need to use some of your nearby iron nodes for rotors and then steel

not everything uses reinforced plates

[craggy zinc]

no, 50%

[craggy zinc]

I am currently starting on steel production and I am trying to get the 400 plates need for Logi T3

[steep hound]

if they are both at 50% your only getting 5 per minute

[fallen otter]

you can do a little hand crafting too for unlocking the early game tech

you can tap space a single time to start crafting then alt tab out of the game while it happens

[steep hound]

400 plates... crafting that by hand will take ages

[slate pagoda]

Then just automate them

Duh

[steep hound]

ye ofc

[steep hound]

that's what I'm trying to say you shouldn't craft 400 by hand

[warm wren]

If you're doing rubber (1800 per in this case), and doing the typical recycle route to reduce oil use... Would you output your residual rubber into your recycled plastic or would you output it into final products I don't guess it matters.

[unique cypress]

I always put it into recycled plastic, because then I don't have to prime the loop manually. It'll start itself up

[slate pagoda]

I think im Installing a resource well crafting mod. Sam is gonna make me furious if I continue playing vanilla

[unique cypress]

Yeah, imo there's like 5x too little

[slate pagoda]

Or at least give us a better dmr recipie

[unique cypress]

just make RSAM 1:1 and it's fine

[slate pagoda]

Yeah that'd work

Or this is some crazy lore implication that requires us to pair sam with somersloops just to use it lol

[unique cypress]

no, correction, Ficsonium would still suck even if they did that. but at least matrices wouldn't

[vapid gorge]

you can't even use all the resources on the map as it is

you can even sloop the constructors

[unique cypress]

I was talking about sam

[vapid gorge]

yes. and to use all the SAM effectively for tier 9 stuff you need massive massive amounts of all the other resources

and that's not including slooping the sam constructors

[unique cypress]

Not really...
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=nPMKWP3U5pBinU6JrKp1

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=gKkjWxNgwno3c5F2ta30

you need more than twice as much SAM (%) than literally anything else

not to mention that the other resources can be converted for

but sam can't and conversion costs sam

so the first limiter is sam, by far

[vapid gorge]

Then don’t convert? There’s so much resources on the map your computer will catch fire before using them

Honestly conversion is stupid

a gimmick they tossed into the 'soft creative mode' they put out

[dusky dust]

I'd say "extremely niche" as opposed to "stupid." :D

[unique cypress]

my point is that if you run out of something, you can convert for it if you have sam

[dusky dust]

If you happen to have some SAM nearby and need a material that's not nearby (and don't need the SAM for anything else later) then it could be nice in a pinch

[vapid gorge]

you aren't going to run out of anything on the map unless you're doing dumb things.

[dusky dust]

I admit I've yet to actually use it in real production lines, though. :P

[vapid gorge]

and at that point just get a mod that spams nodes

[unique cypress]

it's not that hard to actually run out of bauxite, without deliberately wasting it

[vapid gorge]

it's really quite hard. even w/o maxing it out 12k+ a minute is a metric asston

like sure if you're doing wild things like turning it all into aluminium beams to make 1 trillion screws pm? sure you'll run out of bauxite.

[unique cypress]

I used 80% of it in U6 and in U8 had to cut my plans because there wasn't enough

[knotty siren]

I got a question about maximum flow rate. If I am outputting 800m3/s through a mk2 pipe, that means it only goes up to 600m3/s. So would that mean that if I try to connect Fuel-Powered Generators to this setup, does that mean that a bunch of them won't get enough or any fuel at all? Basically do I have to split it into two sets of pipes?

[vapid gorge]

yeah just make 2 groups of fuel producers, 400 each

[dusky dust]

Correct; mk2 pipes can carry at max 600/min

[knotty siren]

Okay cool. That's what I was thinking

I have been doing it this way where I split it into two or more sets thus far. I just wanted to double check.

[vapid gorge]

in general try to make individual groups of pipes that aren't connected. you'll have an easier time trouble shooting them and maintaining flow

[plucky tusk]

Was Waiting for that in general statement

[knotty siren]

Sounds good.

On another note, when it comes to making plastic or rubber, is the polymer resin alternate recipe useful at all?

I have the heavy oil residue alt, dilute fuel alt, recycled rubber and recycled plastic alts

[unique cypress]

using recycled rubber, you get the maximum efficiency out of the recycling loop

[vapid gorge]

its less effective making plastic and rubber

[unique cypress]

because HOR makes resin as a byproduct

but the 2 recycling recipes are the main source

[knotty siren]

Cool thank you

[oblique hollow]

Hey dont bad mouth alchemy.
Its very funny and feels perfectly in line with tier 9 in general.
But i do feel it has an awkward place as it is completely optional. Only Ficsite is mandatory to be made

[craggy zinc]

so I was using this guide and it's./..... not working

the coal is not reaching the end

[steep hound]

it will just wait for the first ones to fill up

[unique cypress]

did you use a mk2 at least until the 4th generator?

and wait at least half an hour?

[plucky tusk]

Its set up right u jus gotta wait for it to start up

[opaque quartz]

Basic troubleshooting: how much coal do these generators consume? How much are you producing? And what’s your belt speed supplying the generator manifold?

[frail sigil]

Thats the one downside for that style of manifold
It takes forever unless you manually fill some of them up

[oblique hollow]

I see zero cables connected to your coal generators too

further, it takes time for the coal to fill up everything to reach the end

[slate pagoda]

,???

[unique cypress]

an 8 gen coal manifold takes about 27 minutes to fill iirc

[slate pagoda]

Lol why not just wait 30 secs before booting it

[crimson moat]

It's 6.67 mins with no power and a 120 belt

[slate pagoda]

😭

[gleaming shuttle]

regardless, they came here to ask for troubleshooting so evidently they did not prefill the system

[umbral barn]

How do I make my trains only run after the cart is full?

[unique cypress]

by using the setting called "depart only when empty/full"

do note that this affects the entire train

all docked wagons need to be emptied or filled (depending on the load/unload setting on the platform they're docked to)

[unborn finch]

for oil transport, is it better to do fluid trains, package the fluids and use trains, or just run a giant pipe? If the pipe is the best way, by how much? I would rather not run a bunch of pipes even with auto-connecting blueprints

[unique cypress]

Neither. Process on site, ship products

[wind spade]

Best fluid transport is no fluid transport

[faint epoch]

if u do have to transport fluids without packaging, do it by train and then package it at the site where u want it to go

[valid minnow]

hi sharing a crash log anyone knows whats happening ?

this happens a lot

[opaque quartz]

Make a thread in #1038092680493801533 with details about the crash

[valid minnow]

made what other details i should put there

[slate pagoda]

Lol

[amber umbra]

I use that style of trains a lot with “full/empty OR 10,000 s”. I’m remembering there is or was a bug with the AND condition. Don’t remember the details other than the setup I had worked well.

[unique cypress]

I haven't had issues with setting trains to AND 0 s

I've been using the setting since ~U6, so maybe the bug is older

[amber umbra]

Well they can try one and if issues occur, try the other.

[digital crow]

I'm confused as to why a MK 3 belt transports 270, it makes things a little odd to arrange. Any ideas beyond "Do Math."?

None of the layout is final I just needed a visual (mainly trying to get a Automated Wire setup going but might just resort to copper till I can figure out this Caterium mess)

[faint epoch]

u can always adjust the OC to match ur needs

[crimson moat]

@faint elm you picked the same spot as us 😄

[hard meadow]

is this compact enough

[hard meadow]

anotha one

oops

here we are

[tidal arrow]

how can i make 37.5 split 2.5 times so 15 goes 1 way and 22.5 goes the other

[vapid gorge]

one line of belts to machines

[tidal arrow]

i gotta split said belt 4 ways

[vapid gorge]

no that's just an example

[tidal arrow]

yes but im running 1:1 not manifolds

[vapid gorge]

if it's one to one you're not splitting

[opaque quartz]

manifolds work regardless of the individual amounts being split. they don't have to be 1:1 ratios

[vapid gorge]

such as this

this will self balance

[tidal arrow]

thanks

so its just a 2 way split ?

[vapid gorge]

or no split, you could have it on the same line like the first example

is it just iron ingots to stuff?

[tidal arrow]

my entire factory is 1:1 it feels sacrilegious to do a manifold for reinforced plates

[vapid gorge]

if you do a ton of clocking and planning? sure you could pull off some things like that. Up to you if you want to do all that work

but you'd have to plan it top down the whole way with that in mind.

not do it step by step

[tidal arrow]

i meant to say my entire factory is already finished being 1:1 and once i get this split my final 2 lines would be finished

[vapid gorge]

clock a group of machines to produce 22.5 on their own, clock a different group to make 15 on it's own then

and RIPS are like a 3 step factory, it's... not very much

[tidal arrow]

that would require me redoing at least 5 lines

[vapid gorge]

yup

"if you do a ton of clocking and planning? sure you could pull off some things like that. Up to you if you want to do all that work
[11:09 AM]
but you'd have to plan it top down the whole way with that in mind.
[11:09 AM]
not do it step by step"

[tidal arrow]

so a 2 way split and it`ll self correct is what im hearing

[vapid gorge]

a manifold? yes

but you said it's sacriglicious

[tidal arrow]

well ive been automating for 15 hours today ill just do the damn manifold

[vapid gorge]

fair.
but in the future if you want to do everything 1:1 you really need to plan it from the end backwards the whole way before you start building

[old swift]

Gah damn, I got a lot to build for this Technology Factory

[unique cypress]

SCIM production planner? Ew

I suggest you check out Satisfactory Tools

[old swift]

eh, they seem the same to me

I just use it to get a general view of what I need

if I need to actually model a production line I would just use satisfactory modeler

[digital spade]

Is it worth it to go nuclear?

[vapid gorge]

oof moddeler is much worse. so much extra time to make things, worse if you need to alter them

[vapid gorge]

it's more interesting than fuel and each nuclear gen is worth 10 fuel

personally I think a big fuel station is really really ugly

[digital spade]

Just put them in a concrete box, duh
(I kinda like how fuel gens look)

[vapid gorge]

that's just.. worse
and it's much simpler putting down 40 nuclear than 400 fuel

there's really no way making 400 fuel gens look good

[unique cypress]

Tools gives you recipe suggestions, which neither SCIM nor modeler do

And I think you could use some of thos

[digital spade]

So nuclear is worth the headache that is setting it up?

[old swift]

that image was b4 I put any of my alts in there

wait no that was alts

but that is literally all the alts I have atm

well at least worth while alts

[quaint condor]

Modeler doesn't also base things on " Map Resource efficiency". But also MUCH easier to read and organize layouts imo.

[unique cypress]

I wonder which alts a person who uses Modeler and SCIM but not Tools considers worthwhile

[quaint condor]

Someone who obviously plays the game different than you think it need to be played?

[unique cypress]

Both Modeler and SCIM require a lot of manual experimentation to really evaluate the recipes

[quaint condor]

It's amazing to me how much you all take a crap on those who chose to do things differently

[quaint condor]

And some people prefer that?

[vapid gorge]

if you use the base recipes it's extremely simple

[unique cypress]

There were a lot of alts that I considered good that turned out to be dogshit when I started to use tools. It just makes comparisons a lot easier

[vapid gorge]

even the alt recipes don't make it that much more complex

[faint epoch]

ok so i may not be producing 16.666 repeating reinforced iron plates a minute because not enough iron in the area

[old swift]

Good is different to each person though, the "optimal" recipes may include resources that are like super far from me, and I'd rather not make an entire pipeline 50km in length, when I could just use an alt, which may take up more room, but works with my playstyle more

Like this entire factory is only going to use 2 Iron nodes, 1 copper node, 1 limestone node, 2 pumps, and like 5 oil extractors

It isn't much, and is all near me

[unique cypress]

You could likely cut the oil extractors to 2 and get rid of the HOR byproduct

[old swift]

I need plastic + rubber, in which I do not have any recipes for just rubber or plastic, both of them come wtih a byproduct of HOR

the only ones that only give Plastic or Rubber would be Residual Rubber/ Plastic, but both of those need PR + Water

[vapid gorge]

what's wrong with a byproduct? turn HOR into coke, or residual fuel, or diluted fuel.

[old swift]

Nothing imo, as I would probably just use it for coke and have a small coal power plant attached to the factory

[prisma kraken]

yeah, turning hor into fuel or coke is super useful

coke gives extra coal power, yellow fuel has any number of uses

[vapid gorge]

coke for early points in the sink is optimal to me. it'll produce barely any power. Better to keep power centralised

[old swift]

Well my main power source is my oil plant

120 Fuel gens?

[prisma kraken]

i never opt for it, but i think more useful at the stage when you are unlocking oil is to burn the coke for power

[vapid gorge]

that's pretty solid. But yeah generally I advice keeping power and production very seperate

[old swift]

Well then I got no clue what to do for the HOR

as I already have a fuel factory

or like outpost

[vapid gorge]

points. easy and lets you unlock stuff in the awesome shop

[old swift]

aight

though I've been doing like 11k p/min for the past like 40 hours on this save 😭

[prisma kraken]

fuel converts 1:1 into rubber or plastic

[old swift]

I don't got that

is it an alt recipe?

[thorn trail]

HOR is used for smokeless powder as well, could make you a weapons plant

[prisma kraken]

recycled rubber & plastic

[old swift]

Don't got recycled rubber yet, but recycled plastic uses rubber

[old swift]

Sadly don't got that alt yet

[prisma kraken]

each recipe takes the other plus fuel and doubles the amount you started with. when used with one another, you can convert fuel into either 1:1

[thorn trail]

smokeless powder isn't an alt, it's in the MAM under the sulfur tree

[old swift]

oh damn I'm blind then

how tf did I skip that

[thorn trail]

used for rifle ammo and higher grade explosives

[old swift]

Gotta run over to my bomb plant rq to get the materials to unlock it

[prisma kraken]

powder isn't a very good sink because it ties up coal and sulfur

[thorn trail]

not as a sink, as a way to actually just get the higher grade weapons

how much HOR are we talking here?

[old swift]

212

[prisma kraken]

takes a pitance to do the research

[old swift]

Agh damnit, my bomb plant is all the way across the entire map 😭

[thorn trail]

speaking of HOR, has anybody ever packaged it and used it as vehicle fuel? Didn't realize it could be used for that till I read the wiki article earlier

seems like it would be horrid

[old swift]

Does seem rlly bad

but I've never rlly used vehicles

only trains and drones

[vapid gorge]

well you can get diluted fuel very early and turn it into fuel, so yeah not great for it

[old swift]

Damnit, I just remembered after I complete Phase 3, I gotta set up a Bauxite processing plant 😭

[unique cypress]

With the right alts, it's not that hard

I always look forward to it

Basic alu is much easier than what's immediately before or after it