math-and-meta

[frosty owl]

I don't think direction matters (much). The point is how long a train takes up a block. If it needs to start from 0 speed it'll take a while and all other trains will take just as long coming out of the stations.
With your fix, you connected the rails in a way that allowed the trains to pick up speed before joining the main ("fast") track ^^

[prisma kraken]

there's a little more to it than that if you want to get really technical and into the math

[frosty owl]

The worst case scenario, for any junction, is having trains stop before engaging it, as that takes the longest to clear it.
If some trains DON'T HAVE a way to engage the junction with speed, the minimum time to cross that junction when two trains meet goes up by a lot

[prisma kraken]

what the resign did is reduced the dependencies a train needs to satisfy to get out of the station

i.e. fast-paths the egress

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I'm not trying to imply it's all about speed, but I do think it's the most important factor

[prisma kraken]

i'm going to disagree, respectfully. same stuff happens in the same order regardless of speed. its just the frequency and duration of the windows that changes

on a long enough timeline, each train on your rail network will be at the exact point as another train at the exact point to cause a problem. it isn't an 'if' but a 'when'

[frosty owl]

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say.
Isn't my point about avoiding the "worst case scenario" valid (albeit incomplete)?

Worst case scenario being: having two (or more) trains needing to pick up speed before clearing a junction

[prisma kraken]

the only way that ever will not be the case is if trains are at exactly synchronous or harmonic round trip times. and while you may have that for a little while, second you change something, you'll perturb that synchronicity

what i'm saying is regardless of speed, over time and after enough simulation iterations, 2 (or more) trains that can deadlock will eventually be at the exact spot that they'll deadlock

if you've designed things incorrectly and they don't, you've really just had some good luck

[frosty owl]

I don't think I ever said otherwise. Bad designs can break, that's normal and expected..?

[prisma kraken]

(or haven't run the game long enough to observe it)

pretty much, lol

i wonder if there's some stuff from Alan Turing's math that could be used to describe it

[frosty owl]

Imagine a world with trains as precise as belts (not the MK6 ones ofc )...

[prisma kraken]

btw, since you bring that up... i've been keeping my eye out, not for mk6's skipping items, but for factories as a result skipping beats or buffers running dry, etc

and i'm really not observing that anywhere

if it is happening for me, systems are recovering

[past reef]

is there any way to balance dark matter crystal/trap to make sure I use all input

[prisma kraken]

yeah, there's a formula on the DMC wiki page

[past reef]

in the planner tools that is, it's probably just making 2 variable equation system to solve

I guess likely not, the planner would favor crystalisation instead of trap because power

[prisma kraken]

yeah, its just 2 linear equations that you have to algebra out

idk, sftools gets a little funny with the endgame recipe stuff, lol

[frosty owl]

Blandrew just said that Snutt said they have confirmed issues with MK6 belts (previously, the opposite was said)...
I don't trust what Snutt says much anymore, not over our own observations... 😅

[past reef]

at least it can show me if a recipe is dark matter positive or negative to make a plan

APA feeding dark matter for ficsonium gonna be massive

[wind spade]

SFTools don't care about power

[prisma kraken]

i haven't really worked out the math there myself

[wind spade]

It's making a ~250 variable equation to solve 🙂

[past reef]

I was putting dark matter as input, it tries to minimize the other resources I guess? so when my input is really large it only uses crystalization

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it's probably favoring the 'no coal' recipe

[past reef]

I know it would mostly be my work to isolate an easier system that is solvable by hand to get my personal extra constraints

[wind spade]

It only cares about weighted resources

[prisma kraken]

trap & standard use a lot of coal, so any choice that isn't crystalization uses more resources

[past reef]

so input = 0 weight = crystalization only if possible, otherwise crystalization + trap etc.

that's nice to find out I need to make sure inputs are precise to get the combo I need

[frosty owl]

No cap?
I seem to recall seeing a case where one solution seemed to be preferred over abother only for using less power...

[prisma kraken]

you can probably uncheck crystalization and get something of an answer, but i don't think sftools has an option to 'use all input'

[frosty owl]

Maximizing can get close to that, but...

[frosty owl]

Something about using diluted fuel VS packaged diluted fuel, so the resource usage was the same iirc

[wind spade]

Nah, it doesn't do anything like that. However the solver itself seems to prefer simpler productions when two equal solutions exist

[frosty owl]

What's "simpler" to the planner?

Fewer nodes in the graph?

[vast jungle]

I have one of these too 🙂 just with "one layer" of stations... quite easy to deadlock too ^^

[past reef]

sftools does dark matter crystal instead of trap (extra converter) if possible I think

[wind spade]

Yeah

[frosty owl]

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation :)

[vast jungle]

taking notes about dark matter handling

[prisma kraken]

tl;dr use trap until you start having excess dmc. then start mathing out where crystalization can save you diamonds

remember, dm crystal is sinkable, so making more than you need isn't a big deal. problem is you need a lot of diamonds

[vast jungle]

just hit Phase 5, still on a small HD hunt to unlock recipes for it

[frosty owl]

Or be me and always use the standard recipe because you can't be bothered finding more HDs...

[vast jungle]

yeah, diamonds are "expensive"... want to produce the first ones from oil to keep it simple... but I will need other options later 😄

[prisma kraken]

i'm looking at the number of time crystal i need and the number is pretty formidable

past a certain sized goal, turbodiamonds becomes very compelling

[frosty owl]

I just threw oil at the problem. Simple enough given the abundance I had, the worst part was the plumbing...

[past reef]

wow I really need to blueprint the t9 stuff out with 10+ wide foundation or so cause particle accelerators are huge and I need 2 of that for the dark matter handling

[prisma kraken]

incidentally, blended TF is the way™️ for turbodiamond

[vast jungle]

hmm... turbofuel is already a solved problem... good to know 🙂

[prisma kraken]

the painful part from what i can see isn't the turbofuel

[frosty owl]

Oh, BTW, @prisma kraken did you hear how I had to use one container to handle a sushi line feeding a machine (using one hole)?

[prisma kraken]

its that the turbodiamond recipe needs packaged turbofuel

[past reef]

at least there's steel near the crater

while you can export up to 1/3 of your turbo without importing canister it's probably too annoying to do for me

[vast jungle]

sulfur and oil in, diamonds out (including the plastic production)? That sounds a bit too large for a BP if you want to be efficient

[frosty owl]

~~Just sloop the Packager making Packaged Turbofuel, EZ ~~

[vast jungle]

yeah, slooping packagers would be "nice"

[prisma kraken]

blended tf can be done in 2 6x6 bp's - you use the same bottom half as for dilluted fuel or recycling. top half looks almost like dilluted fuel, but whith another blender & refinery added

[vast jungle]

I have a 100/min Rocket-Fuel BP in 2 5x5... so this should be doable

[prisma kraken]

you can make packages by slooping DPF 😄

[frosty owl]

Then you can burn the packages and sink the Fuel... No, wait..

[prisma kraken]

i have no idea if that is a thing that makes any sense to do, but yeah, that creates an extra package, lol

[vast jungle]

wait, when doing DF for Turbofuel you get some Polymer from the HOR anyways... is this enough for the containers?

[prisma kraken]

i don't think it's enough

[vast jungle]

this sounds like a really funny concept... not really scalable (sloops are not scalable) but FUN

[prisma kraken]

looking at the time crystal requirement for max nuclear, i think it ends up taking something like 1600 tf for most of the coal nodes on the map (which is pretty simple of a build), so you're looking at like a 900 plastic build for the packages, i guess

that's sort of as far as i've gotten with the napkin math

the other option is to use the compacted coal byproduct from ion fuel to make steel cannisters

idk what makes the most sense, but you've got a few options with that all from what i see

[vast jungle]

you could also just convert some oil to plastic with the 1:3 chain and make containers from it

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's what i meant with the 900 plastic comment

either way, turbodiamond really becomes more compelling at large scale than the oil-based or petro diamon

pretty sure they give you 6 recipes for them so you can throw everything you have leftover at it

[vast jungle]

or to have more options for "local" diamond creation

[prisma kraken]

perhaps. i need to play with the numbers some more. I still don't have a really solid feeling for how much concrete i'll end up using

that's another thing for max nuke that seems like it'll be a stretch

[warm bane]

My favorite diamonds are the bio diamond I'm making using all the vegetation I get when I clean up zones for factories

[prisma kraken]

anyway, getting some zzz's, later all

[robust raptor]

Just wondering, how much lag would it cause if I had ~12-15 conveyors parallel to each other for about 600m leading into a giant nuclear plant with 252 reactors and like 300 other manufacturing buildings

[outer vale]

can't be much surely, 15 belts is nothing

[robust raptor]

I had this grand idea of resources from the mainland being transported to this giant floating nuclear tower surrounded by reactors, but I'm reconsidering that plan because I want to avoid fps lag from long belts

[robust raptor]

Hmm that's reassuring

I might go ahead with that plan then

The way more boring alternative was to make all the rods on land and just use some belts to bring the rods out to the floating platform to minimise belt length for the materials

[plush gulch]

Why not a simple train?

Could be a simple bidirectional train. Maybe 2🤔

[robust raptor]

Because there's like 10 different items

And it's just 600m

I could use a train to do that, but I'd rather do a belt both for the convenience and the aesthetics

I do plan on having trains in the central tower, but just for certain items I need from far away and a personal train station

To keep the train station size small

[patent blaze]

Trust me it takes a lot to make this game lag

[vast jungle]

I already have some "stutter" when using my hoverpack, had to kill the "lights circuit" to get it a bit better... but CPU is often up in the 70-80 percent utilization... might hit a limit "soon" 😐

[patent blaze]

The light stuff can be laggy af yeah

I had one singular ceiling light aimed at my 160m radius dome once.. could barely dismantle it cause of the lag

[vast jungle]

it wasn't much light... maybe a few dozen street latern, two of them every 40 meters? It still stuttered...

[patent blaze]

Thats weird

Do you have instant replay on? Nvidia

That completely destroys my game

[amber umbra]

PCs these days have a really wide range of performance. Going to vary heavily when people hit their personal performance drop limits.

[vast jungle]

no, AMD 6700XT... both CPU and GPU at 70-80% utilization... still the micro-stuttering every 10-20 seconds is really annoying

[amber umbra]

Probs best to hop over to a questions thread if you do want to deep dive on performance. Tends to get very lengthy as a discussion.

[robust raptor]

I'm worried about max nuclear though

1300 buildings + 252 reactors all in the same place

That's more than currently present in my entire world right now

[amber umbra]

Sounds like it would lead to some reduced fps.

I’m noticing a bit of slow downs in the area I built most heavily in. Mainly does an fps drop when looking in a new direction towards large factories. (nearing end of phase 4)

[robust raptor]

It would be really funny if satisfactory convinced me to get a cpu upgrade

I've built massive bases in factorio, but satisfactory might finally push my cpu over the edge

[patent blaze]

I upgraded my cpu before i even got the game cause i knew i was cooked

[prisma kraken]

it won't be much, but remember, every km of belts is more processing the game needs to do. if you're worried about lag with it, you can always cover the belts so they don't render when you are nearby

[wide veldt]

I'm making 720 aluminum ingots per minute

How many of those should I turn into aluminum casing?
and how many should I turn into alclad aluminum sheets?

[wind spade]

keep them and wait until you know how much of each you need

because there's no answer to that question, it heavily depends on your goals, recipe choices, etc.

[fossil basalt]

You're going to be using a lot of sheets for mk5 belts

I would aim for 240 sheets/min to feed a depot

As a starting point, at least

[wind spade]

240/min is imo too much, most people are fine with 30-60

obviously you add a buffer in front of a depot to fill it quickly, but otherwise you don't need much

[fossil basalt]

If he's making 720 ingots already what else are they going to go for

[wind spade]

well first of all, why make them if you don't need them yet

second, why mare more than you need, you can save the rest for future projects

[fossil basalt]

240 is only eight assemblers. It's not like I'm recommending a 2-hour construction project

[wind spade]

yes, but you also have no more ingots to work with for next project, which is even more time

[burnt yarrow]

If I have 3 pure coal and 3 pure iron nodes and I wanna start up a basic steel factory with tier 2 miners but I can overxlock them. What kinda proportions are good. Like what numbers are nice and scalable so I can do what I need

[wind spade]

the conversation just above your questions applies 🙂 work based on what you need, not what you have 🙂

[latent seal]

can someone help me understand the relationship between the 10 frames im making per minute and the manufacturer which says it takes 10 per minute for 2 heavy modular frames per minute, and is clearly not eating 10 per minute

[burnt yarrow]

Any other approaches to this guy and some maths to answer it?

[wind spade]

wdym?

[wind spade]

some screenshots would help

[burnt yarrow]

As in if I wanted to make a big steel plant for my level with only t2 miners what would the maths be and what numbers are nice to work with

[wind spade]

how much of which product do you want? start with that

[burnt yarrow]

I want steel

[wind spade]

steel what?

[burnt yarrow]

And I want a lot

Just steel

I’ll figure out what to do with it after

[wind spade]

so, steel ingot? steel beam? steel pipe?

[burnt yarrow]

Steel ingit

[wind spade]

I do not recommend this approach

[burnt yarrow]

Ah well … anyway

It’s for the fun I just wanna build a big steel place

[wind spade]

fair, then pick a number and build that much

[burnt yarrow]

So I can have a ton of steel to fly through phase 2

But what numbers are nice to work with

[latent seal]

nevermind, I think I understand whats going on here

[burnt yarrow]

I don’t wanna be having underclockimg to 2.46383%

[latent seal]

its correct its jusrt that the cycles are veeeryy slow

[wind spade]

any

[latent seal]

and i should use a smart splitter to send the overflow to versatile frameworks

so that I can send a precise 2.5 modular frames per minute

instead of splitting the 12.5 evenly

[burnt yarrow]

Anyone else got a more specific number?

[latent seal]

so

[wind spade]

42
1000
8716874
1

here's some specific numbers for you 🙂

(If you missed my point - there's no single "good" way to play the game, everyone plays differently and based on recipe choices and goals, their resource consumption varies greatly)

[latent seal]

i set up my steel to make 300 ingots

out of one miner

currently, just because, its what makes sense for me now 🙂

i could set up to make less, because I don't think I'm using 300 steel yet

[burnt yarrow]

Okey thanks. Was it one mark 2 miner?

[latent seal]

let me double check it, it might be a mk1 overclocked lol

[burnt yarrow]

And how do you make 300 exactly

Ahhhh yeah that’s fully over locked isn’t it

[wind spade]

clock it

[latent seal]

sorry, i make 270 rn

[burnt yarrow]

270 yeah alright

[latent seal]

so start with 270 coallll, thennnn

[burnt yarrow]

Calm is the math behind it nice

[wind spade]

clock speed is the single most useful logistic tool we have. You can make any number of anything, if you change the clock speed to that number

[burnt yarrow]

That’s what 8 foundaries?

[latent seal]

soooo, i use 4 i think

but, I use solid steel ingot recipe

[burnt yarrow]

Ahhhhh makes sense

[latent seal]

sorry, 3

[burnt yarrow]

Nah I cba with that for now just wanna keep it simple

[burnt yarrow]

What stage are you at in the game

[latent seal]

ahh, t7 just unlocked a day or two ago

im making 300 steel ingots out of 200 coal

basically, because, my setup is kind of unique i think

[burnt yarrow]

Could you send a pic I’m interested

[latent seal]

i also use pure iron ingot recipe to feed this, which is from a refinery:

so I truck in IRON ORE

[burnt yarrow]

Oh damn you more ahead than me I haven’t got refineries yet

Yoooo is that a simpler

[wind spade]

one of the reasons I recommend you to make your own numbers instead of asking others

[latent seal]

I feed 4 refineries:

[burnt yarrow]

Sniper *

That’s cool

A little conveyor hole

[burnt yarrow]

Thinking I might go 48 foundaries 💀

[latent seal]

I have 28 currently

er, refineries, not foundries

[burnt yarrow]

2160 steel

That should be enough for the rest of the game right

[wind spade]

no

[burnt yarrow]

Ahhhh for me it will be

[latent seal]

I was entertaining him

[burnt yarrow]

I just wanted some numbers so I don’t make it hard on myself

[wind spade]

"enough for the rest of the game" depends on what your plans are for "rest of the game"

and I heavily recommend to stop thinking about endgame when you're not there 🙂

[burnt yarrow]

I’m new alright guys 💀

[latent seal]

so for just raw numbers that a machine can generate

[wind spade]

read https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency 🙂

[latent seal]

try out a tool!

[burnt yarrow]

What tools are there

[latent seal]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidFuel_C"%3A"21.5"%2C"Desc_ModularFrame_C"%3A"10"%2C"Desc_Motor_C"%3A"5"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_ResidualFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_SteelRod_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CoatedIronPlate_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_AdheredIronPlate_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Wire_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Screw_2_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_IngotSteel_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Concrete_C"]}

here is my steel refinery

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/

[burnt yarrow]

Okey thanks a lot

[latent seal]

and heavy modular frames and versatile frameworks,

thats how I make steel, solid steel and pure iron

so im probably the worst person to ask for numbers lol

[wind spade]

not to mention the calc you're using is kinda shit for calculating

[latent seal]

yes it is not precise, i have to fuss with some of the floating points

i just use it as a general guide

[wind spade]

I mean that it can't do things like loops or optimisation

[latent seal]

correct, this is my cave man tool

thats not this?

[long jungle]

can anyone tell me why it says 1.3 m its a straight pipe 🤦‍♂️

[latent seal]

scim is not that, ohhh, i might check that out 🙂

the forderhohe isnt that a measurement from the origin height?

this is probably something that can be answered with a definition

[long jungle]

it comes in to the buffer with a straight pipe and go out with a straight pipe

so it should be 0 not 1.3

i ddont think buffer input is 1.3 m o.o or is it?

[latent seal]

is the pipe 1.3 meeters tall?

😄

[wind spade]

it's headlift, not pipe height

[long jungle]

no o.o

[long jungle]

yeah but wwhy headlift on a straight pipe? makes no sense for me

[wind spade]

headlift exists in the whole system, no matter what pipe

[latent seal]

water is like divining rods to me, I just pump the water downhill and everything always works.

the solution to water is have more water going downhill

the lake has no problem staying full:

this is the way of water

[long jungle]

but saly that ddont work on all places on map someetimes you must go uphill because of Landdscape for example

but yeah good solution

[wind spade]

that's where you use a pump

only if you go up

[latent seal]

well, here the landscape has taught us the lesson

[long jungle]

andd THATS what not works reealy good atm 😄

[latent seal]

you can apply it anywhere because you are the vessel

[wind spade]

why not?

[long jungle]

so i have 5 refineries output on one pipe 5 blenders input on same pipe Pump ssaays headlift 43,9 m but blenders still dont get enough turbofuel but they should becausse refineeries produce ebough

even wit another pump and/or a buffer still not work i dont know why

[wind spade]

try the classic pipe troubleshooting:

• fill all pipes and machines before running the setup
• don't use valves and buffers
• feed from above or level, not below
• loop any pipe manifolds you have
• keep system simple
• use pumps when going up

[long jungle]

i have done this 5 times i know all this stuff but it only helps some Minutes then they get empty again

[latent seal]

fill all pipes and machines before running the setup <-- this one almost certainly does the trick if your setup is correct

[wind spade]

show some screenshots then

[long jungle]

also a funny not funny things from this 5 Blenders on the Pipe Nr 1 2 an d3 have full storages Nr 5 too but Nr 4 in line not so why Nr 5 gets full but Nr 4 not (and yes i rebuilded all in and outputs and the bleender

[latent seal]

im trying to get 5 foundries of aluminum running lol

i think im going to probably ask about this water issue, im trying to return my water to my bauxite ref

so two solution refs take 360, 1 scrap ref makes 120

meaning I need to produce 240 and loop the 120 back around

right?

nice and neat

[potent loom]

woah!

super neat

[latent seal]

except the power

don't look at the power cables, avert your eyes

[patent blaze]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=fbrDcps5y0Ahygxiej2J what should i add/change

i think i will make it in the top right desert

[vast jungle]

wait... something is not right... misplaced a digit?

[patent blaze]

lol what

[vast jungle]

had to fix a STUPID mistake to correct the image...

I hope this will be enough Time Crystals to get me started with Tier 9...

[patent blaze]

i think you've made the exact same setup i made

it was enough for me so it should be fine

[vast jungle]

600 oil to Time Crystals?

[patent blaze]

oh shit

2400 coal

( i made 2400 coal into time crystals)

[vast jungle]

thats A LOT of coal

[patent blaze]

i have 3 particle accelerators too

yeah its.. a lot

[vast jungle]

I spent a few hours on a HD hunt to get the "oil based diamond" recipe

[patent blaze]

i think i will try to get turbo diamonds

[vast jungle]

I heard its the best for the endgame/massproduction

hmm... how does 57/min sounds for a first Ficsit-Trigon line?

[patent blaze]

OMG THEY MADE IT SO YOU CAN COPY PASTE WATER EXTRACTORS

[patent blaze]

if you make like 2-3 big chests of buffer you wont run out

[vast jungle]

hmm... on the other side, slooping the Ficsiit-Trigon production is very cheap... so 110/min would also be possible 😄

[velvet venture]

is it possible to package-unpackage with a sloop to cheese fuel production

[vast jungle]

No

[fossil basalt]

Packagers don't take loops

[fringe pawn]

At one point several people in here did the math, and while amusing, sloops in packagers ultimately wouldn't be that powerful until you get ionized. Even then, meh.

[knotty siren]

This is very helpful. Is it better to not use water buffers though?

[wind spade]

yes it is

[knotty siren]

Okay good to know 🙂

[marsh silo]

you could if you used the alt recipe for diluted fuel as you can sloop the refineries and would get extra fuel and packages from that, will need a way to make sure you can deal with the extra package build up so that isn't what clogs the system

[unborn ermine]

Man I hate it

Somehow here, theres different waterlines for the extractors

Guess I gotta go farther from the shore.

[prisma kraken]

northern bay?

if so, that line is really annoying - a bit surprised they didn't fix that in 1.0

[jolly furnace]

can somebody give me tips on debugging a turbo fuel network? I have 8.89 turbo fuel plants running @ 100% effciency going into 22.22 fuel generators. However, it only fills up like 20.22 of them consistently so my power fluctuates a bit.

All my pumps are not exceeding head lift, all my turbo fuel is running 100% no hiccups. I dont really know how to find the problem.

[prisma kraken]

first thing i'd recommend is to disconnect all the generators from power and let the pipe network & generator buffers fill completely

[jolly furnace]

oh right i forgot to say, I try that and it seemed to fix it for like

[prisma kraken]

sometimes doing that and reconnecting the power fixes everything

[jolly furnace]

20-30 minutes, but once the buffer ran out the problem came back

[prisma kraken]

gotcha

have a picture?

also, quick math on how much fuel and how you have the generators clocked, etc would be helpful

[jolly furnace]

yeah sre. let me provide the guide Iwas following

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Setting_up_Fuel_Power

up to stage 2

[drowsy hemlock]

I'm sure I'll be told that satisfactory calculator can do this math but I'm struggling to figure out how to split this up. I have 2500 MW of fuel power setup and it produces 150 polymer resin per minute. I"m trying to figure out how best to split it between residual plastic and residual rubber. I have plenty of water nearby so that's not an issue

[jolly furnace]

sorry I have to go eat rq ill come back in an hour or two if u are there. but these are my two levels of fuel generators.

[prisma kraken]

give me a quick sec, checking the math on that tutorial

how are you dealing with the fractional machine counts? over/underclocking?

[drowsy hemlock]

He had to leave for about an hour or 2

[prisma kraken]

i wanted to check the wiki tutorial's math to make sure that they were working from the 1.0 consumption rates for a sec, the tutorial math looks right, but that tutorial uses some very bizarre numbers

[prisma kraken]

thanks, i missed his comment 🙂

[drowsy hemlock]

All good

[prisma kraken]

i'll help later if the turkey coma doesn't get me first 🙂

[drowsy hemlock]

lol. @prisma kraken WOuld you be able to help me with this?

[unborn ermine]

Yeah right north of that spire with the uranium node.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i can give you some tips on that and what i did with such a byproduct myself.

[drowsy hemlock]

I'd love that

[prisma kraken]

resin needs to be converted using one of the two residual recipes - there's nothing else you can do with it besides make fabric

[drowsy hemlock]

Well yeah that's what I'm asking

[prisma kraken]

of the two recipes, making rubber yields more stuff

[drowsy hemlock]

I need both so is there a good way to split it between both?

Or if I want both should I just make a separate factory for the one I'm not producing?

[prisma kraken]

so for a simple answer; the solution is to just make some rubber and add it to the trainloads you're probably going to need somewhere

[drowsy hemlock]

I have no trainloads.

I don't even have trains unlocked yet

[prisma kraken]

well, however you're getting stuff from one place to another

[unborn ermine]

If you are planning on going hard on alt recipes, you will need a LOT of rubber.

[drowsy hemlock]

I do it all manually

[prisma kraken]

making rubber from resin is almost always the best alternative unless you're just wanting a simple way of making a bit of plastic for fluid packaging

[drowsy hemlock]

So should I have all the byproduct going into rubber and just make a separate factory making plastic?

[prisma kraken]

the more complicated answer is that after you make that rubber, you can then use that in a recycling loop to make more rubber or plastic

[unborn ermine]

Whatever works for you, just make your life simple and change as you need.

[drowsy hemlock]

Got it.

Thanks for the help.

[prisma kraken]

if it is your first playthrough, i wouldn't overbuild extra stuff because you think you may eventually need it, but instead focus on what your needs are right now

[drowsy hemlock]

Yeah that's mostly what I"m doing

[prisma kraken]

especially with rubber and plastic, it is really difficult to get a picture as to how much you will eventually need

[drowsy hemlock]

It's technically my 2nd playthrough but I didn't get as far as I am now with my first

[prisma kraken]

refinery builds tend to sop up a lot of power (and often before you have it secure), so going light and as needed usually works best as a way of tackling the early oil stage of the game

[drowsy hemlock]

Sounds good. I did manage to just triple my power output with this oil power generation I did (went from producing about 1200 MW Of power to 3600+ MW)

[prisma kraken]

generally that's a lot less of a concern in 1.0 than previous game versions, but you really do need to get into the 40+gw power range before you start slinging refineries around like you do with smelters

[drowsy hemlock]

Ah ok.

I'm planning on getting to that point eventually (obviously)

[prisma kraken]

that's just my opinion, others probably have a bit different idea on what ranges for power are comfy. my experience is my own, so take it with a grain of salt

once you get turbo and rocket fuel going as power sources, things get considerably easier with power

in my current playthrough, i think i made it through phase 3 on a shoestring budget of 12gw of power with some APA's to help pretty comfortably before really sinking the time in to build a large fuel plant

[latent seal]

150 turbofuel, what to do with the resin i wonder?

[unborn ermine]

Yeah,
When I decided to jump onto rocket fuel, I didnt have much infrastructure, so I kinda handfed machines to make parts for all the geo gens.
That and an array of coal gens got my aluminum running, then using mk5 belts, I got 2x 780/min coal power plants working with 3 APA for my RF power.

And this is the result of that

[prisma kraken]

sort of the range i ended up with as well... nearly all my sloops are sitting in apa's at the moment, so i'm maxing a bit more than you, but same ballpark - iirc you built turboblend->rf with a slightly larger amt of sulfur and crude than i did

[unborn ermine]

Yeah its 2400/min for fuel gens, +200-> 100/min packaged

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i did 900+600 -> 1200 tf -> 2000 rf all going to generation

think that means you went 1200+800, right?

my decision on the amount i used was just to keep the sulfur to one node

[unborn ermine]

Im trying to think of what that means
I did it all in one build, so I just dumped all the numbers.

[prisma kraken]

1200 crude + 800 sulfur

[unborn ermine]

Nah less, just a bit

its 780 sulphur

[prisma kraken]

wierd that it maths out like that

oh well

[unborn ermine]

Works for me

[prisma kraken]

but yeah, comparable size build

[unborn ermine]

I needed one belt of a pure node

[prisma kraken]

my power boost is higher, but i nabbed all the bonus sloops when the bad patch came out 😉

[unborn ermine]

I only got 5 extra sloops, thats like, a handful for some on the fly slooping or dumped into something for personal use.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i recognized what had happened immediately and just stopped everything to make hay while the sun shined 🙂

(plenty of experience with playing the bleeding edge experimental update releases, lol)

[unborn ermine]

I remember doing that with slugs yeah

[prisma kraken]

i actually kind of wish slug respawning was a feature

its kind of fun rocketing around spire coast looking for them 😄

ofc, it doesn't matter with synth shards, but it still is fun to do

[unborn ermine]

This is what mine would look like if I slooped APA'd with what I have on hand

I know I have a mess back at base with at least two refineries and a manufacturer + a few other machines

[prisma kraken]

in any event, anything much more than 100gw is probably going to be unused before you hit nuclear

i kind of think that should be where a large rf build should end up with power if they were ever to nerf it - something like 2x or 2.5x turbofuel alone

anyone know if there's a mod that changes the damage fall-off for distance of the rebar gun?

[jolly furnace]

sorry I just came back from thanksgiving dinner and have time for myself to play satisfactory. are you okay if we continue?

[knotty siren]

I like that you elevated the pipe higher and then lower it into the fuel generators. Seems like that works

[jolly furnace]

yeah haha I read the plumbing manual and that was one of the pages where it said not to connect at level if you can help it

[knotty siren]

Really cool trick. I'll take it! 😉

[jolly furnace]

use the vertical to horizontal feature on the pipes. thats what i found, makes it much easier and nicer to look at

[knotty siren]

Thanks for the tip!

I use it when I can as well.

[prisma kraken]

yeah

@jolly furnace i'm here but dunno for how long - tried sleeping for a bit and wasn't really getting anywhere with it, lol

[jolly furnace]

thats fine if yr tired its not a pressing need

[prisma kraken]

well, trying to get tired, lol

[jolly furnace]

alr ill use that as an excuse to throw up the rest of my plant :)

[prisma kraken]

anyway, the guide your following really has wacky sizes for strange amts of stuff

[jolly furnace]

wacky how?

[prisma kraken]

well, everything is like fractions of 9 instead of whole machines

whenever you see 1.11111, 2.2222.... 8.888888, those are all x/9 as a fraction

but usually with oil and turbofuel, you kind of want to say 'i'm devoting these full nodes to power' instead of doing little bits

[jolly furnace]

hmm okay, I guess ill keep that in mind when i eventually tear this down

[prisma kraken]

which is just weird that the guide does that

anyway, how are you clocking things? i think you said you had 8.8888 refineries going to 22.2222 generators?

[robust raptor]

I'm currently at ~27GW power and my factory consumes ~15GW, but I still feel power insecurity

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it really depends on how big you're planning on building

[robust raptor]

I wanted to skip straight to nuclear, but now that I just want to build the entire max nuclear at once, I'll probably do a 80GW rocket fuel build in the blue crater as a stopgap and stepping stone to max nuclear

Of course, I could also beat the game with 27GW, but where's the fun in that

[prisma kraken]

skipping to nuclear is sort of painful to do

[robust raptor]

I would have done it if I was only building 90GW of nuclear

[prisma kraken]

its possible, and i've done it, and really don't recommend doing it the first time you build nuclear

[jolly furnace]

These are the generator, turbo fuel refinery, and compacted coal assembler respectively

[robust raptor]

But now that I'm doing the full 630GW and the full setup consumes 50GW to even run, I think rocket fuel as a stepping stone just makes sense

[prisma kraken]

so, try this, you have 23 generators now?

[jolly furnace]

yes,11 below 12 above

[prisma kraken]

can you add one more generator?

[jolly furnace]

this is the pipeline from the first to second floor

[jolly furnace]

yeah sure

[prisma kraken]

oh....

ok, your problem is that you have generators spanning 2 levels

you can't do that with liquid fuel

[jolly furnace]

whats the problem?

[prisma kraken]

if it were rocket fuel b/c its a gas you could, but gravity always pushes the fluid downward so generators on top starve

[jolly furnace]

dont the pumps prevent backflow and push it?

[prisma kraken]

it isn't that

its that the fluid always travels down first, so not enough is getting to the pump to get pushed up

[jolly furnace]

oh wait are you saying that the fuel for the second level is just being hoarded in the pipes for the first level?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, what happens is a generator gobbles a chunk of fuel and it flows backward instead of forward

[jolly furnace]

oh shit I remember reading something like this in the plumbing manual 🤦‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

the rule for fluid manifolds is that all consumers for a manifold should be on the same level

not sure if the plumbing manual explicitly calls this out. but i can tell you from a lot of experimenting with things, that it just never works

[jolly furnace]

okay sooo my turbo fuel refineries were also constructed in a similar manner I assume that is also a no no

[prisma kraken]

probably your problem there as well

bummer

[jolly furnace]

it does when you mentioned the liquid changing directions when being consumed by a source I remembered the manual mentioning that

[prisma kraken]

you may be able to salvage that all by splitting two pipes off to feed each floor separately

[jolly furnace]

although im pretty sure it was talking about level 2 pipes where its 600 cubic meters or more, i dont really remember

oh so just isolate each level of the generators with the turbo?

[prisma kraken]

like your refineries are taking fuel as input from what i see, that fuel is coming from a set of blenders (or packagers) that is outputting into a shared pipe right now. divide the yellow fuel makers into halves each supplying a pipe that goes to a specific floor

hope that makes sense?

[jolly furnace]

okay so what you mean is just split my fuel manifold in half, with just two pipes that directly supply two manifolds for the first and second floors

without them being connected vertically

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it probably is the simplest fix. the problem is that all consumers need to be on the same level to have the same priority for getting input

it's a really super-annoying thing about the pipe simulation, but it's how it works

[jolly furnace]

okay cool thanks for the help I appreciate it 👍

[prisma kraken]

how i usually sidestep the problem is that i push all input liquids up to the highest level of a build and then let product fluids only flow downward

[jolly furnace]

like a water tower?

[prisma kraken]

more like just only let fluids flow down

but i'm also careful to avoid split level manifolds

there may be a configuration or two that do the right thing, but it isn't worth spending the hours to find one-off rule exceptions

[jolly furnace]

damn liquids are complicated lmao

[prisma kraken]

the game's pipe simulation is pretty interestingly complicated and non-intuitve. one thing that i find a bit of a solace in it is that there aren't a ton of complicated pipe builds you need to do in the game. when you find a design you understand and works well for you, you can generally stick with it and replicate it

what should really be in the game somewhere is some sort of training wheels tutorial for teaching you the tools and how to build the stuff, probably as you get into the oil and then aluminum stages

[jolly furnace]

yeah im on like the last of milestone 6 or something

before I need toautomate the phase 3 req

[prisma kraken]

most of us with some hrs in the game under our belts get a little bit superstitious about pipe configurations we've not seen before, lol

[jolly furnace]

I had no idea how uselss the frames and advanced wiring was until I googled what they ewere used for

[jolly furnace]

yeah I can imagine

do you know if the doggie bag for deleting on the calculator is limited by item stacks? like if I delete a lot of shit and it doesnt have space for the items in a crate it just voids them

[prisma kraken]

best tips for pipes i can give are to keep pipe networks simple and small, keep your pipes full and keep the consumers of the pipe network level

[jolly furnace]

yeah I kinda was getting into building vertically with all my stuff so I guess this is the one place where I should have not done that lmao

[prisma kraken]

i think the loot crate that scim yields on big deletes has an unlimited size, just like the in-game deletion one

[jolly furnace]

oh nice thanks, ill def use that to remove my top gen floor

[prisma kraken]

i've used it before, but haven't ever probed the limits on it all

make a backup!

[jolly furnace]

yeah I def should 😆

[prisma kraken]

i think it makes it nearly impossible to not have a backup, but still, the reminder needs saying 🙂

[jolly furnace]

what im confused, is that if my generators were suffering from the 2 floor situations, why weren't my turbo fuels doing the same?

all of them were running at 100% with full stuffings and everything

and I believe I was producing the exact amount of fuel for them

[vast jungle]

SCIM savefile editing is quite fool-prove, but never underestimate fools!

[prisma kraken]

i'm quite good at proving myself a fool 🙂

[vast jungle]

just saw a youtube from Totalxclipse... MK2 Blueprint making enough fuel rods for 10/20 nuclear powerplants with only inputs are ores and ingots... nice to know how compact you can get.

unfortunately not stackable, but this could be solved in a MK3 Blueprint

[past reef]

I have a 2.4 uranium rod tower stackable vertically, don't know how I can reach 20+ plant/4+ rods without sloops though

to be fair it's just 4 manufacturers and proper belting to lift everything up top

[vast jungle]

rods for 10 reactors (at 100%) is without sloops, 20 reactors is with 4 sloops

[past reef]

normal recipe? I had mine with fuel unit

[vast jungle]

have to look at the video again, the built used a few alts (of course)

was interesting from the layout/routing perspective...

(I don't need nuclear power anytime soon)

[past reef]

that'll be interesting to tackle myself, my tower doesn't use ore and have to have quickwire pre-processed, was good enough for me

[vast jungle]

yeah, blueprints can be a great puzzle...

I really want to redo my "plastic/rubber" blueprints, but I will delay it until I get the MK3... want some space for walls and decoration

[prisma kraken]

quick little thing i just figured out... i've been pushing out my railway into a pretty dicey area, and before i did so i built a bunch of lookout towers to mark the path i wanted to run... a nice surprise is that the number of towers i used actually suppressed the critters spawning in the area

[prisma kraken]

i have an older small bp for the base recipes that can be manifolded, it isn't the actual nuclear that takes a lot of space, its everything feeding it 🙂

btw, that guy has people designing his stuff for him, i'd take stuff he says on the engineering side of factory design with a grain of salt

[vast jungle]

I make all of my BPs myself anyways, but I always like to get inspiration whats possible (or from other channels what I can do to make my BPs look less awful ^^)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, he makes some good content, for sure, but past around the oil phase, ummm...

[vast jungle]

I have disagreed with his suggestions in the past and it will happen again... as with all youtube content, take them with a grain of salt 😄

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'll stop before it seems like i'm bad-mouthing him

what does drive me bonkers is when one of the yt personalities mis-state something in a vid and then for a few weeks everyone in chat is quoting them as a source of truth 🙂 'pipe floor holes are broken' etc

[vast jungle]

😄

and even beyond that, "truth" like this ages like raw milk in Satisfactory... every patch can change the situation again

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's the other thing, lol

unrelated, i did good:

love it when the intersections just work out

[vast jungle]

looks fine... especially with the "missing" signal at the second intersection... always easy to make a bad situation with signals not far enough apart

[prisma kraken]

that one i intentionally removed

[jolly furnace]

yay!

[prisma kraken]

it doesn't make sense to have a signal there

[jolly furnace]

thanks for the help @prisma kraken

[prisma kraken]

happy you got it working

probably still need to move a few signals around a little bit, but that's a tomorrow problem

i got the lake forest spur laid down and that's kind of where i wanted to get for the night

have a g'night all

[nova steppe]

What would be the easiest way to get a train to the red forest without building a train elevator or giant ramp?

Like is there a smooth access point here that im missing?

[past reef]

There are 2 possible train paths both from crater lake

There is another path to walk up from the lake on northeast of red forest, but naturally too steep for train

[past reef]

Both those paths can accommodate 2 tracks without crossing

Im on mobile so cant mark them on your map, but look for slopes up near the 2 circular crater lakes nearby, both will need/explosives to clear

[nova steppe]

these?

[past reef]

Yeah those

[nova steppe]

aight thanks

are they accessable with 3 wide foundations tho? Or only 2 wides?

tight squeeze... is that rock on the left low?

[past reef]

Yeah they are about that wide

The left side? The rock is higher up

3 tracks are pretty enough though, I do 4 cause no foundations track

[nova steppe]

Right, no im planning to do pillars, connecting rails

easiest way imo

[deft lichen]

Toggle the roads layer

[nova steppe]

oh damn

huge

[candid void]

Refineries are smarter to smelt Copper and Iron as normal Smelter, right? Built a big fabric with These stuff. Using 600 Ironore per min and producing nearly 1300 Ironbars per min. Guess i right or is this fabric trash?

[vast jungle]

its a tradeoff between "copper ingot output" and "factory size/energy consumption"

I tend to build "Copper towers" from MK2 blueprints with 4 refineries inside... these tend to grow to hundreds of meters high. If you want something compact, take a look at copper alloy

[robust raptor]

As a refinery hater myself, I'm a fan of copper and iron alloy

They're both useful recipes and the foundry is a much nicer machine to work with that consumes a lot less power and you need a lot less of them

[vast jungle]

Iron Alloy is quite useful in 1.0, especially with Iron Wire... but Copper Alloy not that much anymore... 😦

#screenshots message
Processing of one pure copper node

[robust raptor]

Copper alloy is still plenty good

Just not as OP as it used to be

[robust raptor]

And yeah, that's exactly why I hate refineries

[nova steppe]

I like tempered Copper, if my production has leftover heavy oil residue I can turn it into petroleum coke to save some copper

But it's a specific use case

[vast jungle]

one mouse-click (MK2 Blueprint) for four Refineries... its not that much effort 😉

[robust raptor]

It's about all the space and height it takes up

I have a 4 refinery blueprint too, but it doesn't make refineries any less unwieldy to work around

[vast jungle]

I will repost the picture when I get to MK6 belts... because then I can increase the towers (not that I will need them at that point anymore)

[robust raptor]

And besides, if I were to do a comparable foundry setup, it would take like a single mouse click

[nova steppe]

looks..... like some specific towers...

[robust raptor]

And take up a fraction of the space

The effort is incomparable

[vast jungle]

the train line between them must be a dwarven invention!

[nova steppe]

Just keep drones away from the area

[vast jungle]

its a no fly zone, I promise...

but back to Copper... I think the most annoying part of Pure Copper Ingots is all the water you need... because sometimes its not available closeby and you cannot stack Water Extractors ^^

I am okay with placing the same BP a couple of times to get my Copper in a compact (2D) footprint

[oblique hollow]

Im fine with them ever since leached got added

Im just a pure hater

Minor efficiency loss compared to pure but much better speed

[robust raptor]

A building I'm actually a fan of despite its size and power draw is the particle accelerator

The first time I switched it on, the sound effects were amazing

[oblique hollow]

Accelerator is neat

[past reef]

except pure quickwire I don't want to ever pure copper again

[oblique hollow]

Pure copper pairs well with it but im just gonna use leached from now on

[vast jungle]

just put a few of them down for Diamond creation... they are "not that bad" (even a bit large ^^)

[vast jungle]

20 GW power draw? Ouch...

[brisk smelt]

yummy

[vast jungle]

need some processors for a MK3

[outer vale]

with sloops and overclocking you've only got yourself to blame

[vast jungle]

its just a temporary setup with a large liquid container to flush the byproduct...

not sure what I really want for a Phase 5 factory at the moment

[outer vale]

I'm finishing up a factory for AI Expansion Servers with some Neurals and Superpositions on the side

probably gonna do one factory for each spelevator item

[vast jungle]

I most likely need to change or upgrade a few existing factories anyways... not enough frames, not enough rubber/plastic 😄

finally... its done... 🙂

[weak rose]

can someone link me a good rocket fuel setup?

[past reef]

nitro or turbo blend rocket or normal rocket depends on how much sulfur you wanna use

would be a balance between oil and nitrogen and potentially coal, nitro is simplest but worst on sulfur nitrogen, other two saves more sulfur but worse on oil

[outer vale]

I used plain rocket fuel on mine

[past reef]

lowest sulfur use combo is a mix of turbo blend and normal rocket that uses byproduct compacted coal

[charred vapor]

Update 11.29.2024 - 1.0 Fixes v1.0.1.0

Today I updated the game in Stim to 1.0 Fixes v1.0.1.0 and after that I start the game and this message pops up (Plugin ‘DLSS’ failed to load because module ‘DLSSUtility’ could not be found. Please ensure the plugin is properly installed, otherwise consider disabling the plugin for this project.), two days ago I played - everything was normal, and today after updating this.... What happened? Why in a friend such???

[outer vale]

This is not math related, please don't spam this into every channel you can post pictures in

[past reef]

I do this, 360 RF times 14 modules

[outer vale]

mine wasn't quite so modular

[vast jungle]

I use the same strategy just with 24+2 modules of 100 RF each

[charred vapor]

Got it thanks, but I need help with this, before the update everything was working fine - and today it's like this

[outer vale]

Someone already responded to you in the main channel

[past reef]

that's an oil restricted setup then, there's still merit to it (like the northern forest lake) it's really depending on how much infrastructure you wanna deal with

[outer vale]

yeah I can't remember the exact thought process, but it would've in part been motivated by getting relatively round numbers

and not spilling onto multiple nodes if I could help it

built this in the se crater

[weak rose]

the most simple it can get (in terms of complicity)

[past reef]

diluted fuel nitro then, use the coal output for coal generators of a bunch of steel beams

[latent seal]

is this how i do this:

it is not

[weak rose]

can you send the crafting tree?

[past reef]

gonna take a huge hit on sulfur instead with this

it's not necessarily bad in resource considering how optional sulfur will be later on

[weak rose]

if it saves me alot of headache its worth it lol

[past reef]

it depends, you'd have to calculate for infrastructure instead to be expandable for a maxed belt unless you use the crater's sulfur cluster

[latent seal]

what do with this resin i wonder 🤔

[past reef]

if you can make sure the modular frames are sinked (and hence not blocking resin production) you can make some filters

[vast jungle]

I dumped it into a sink in my RF factory... no nearby factory to use it

you can do the same here...

[latent seal]

in truth the modular frames are hooked up to a heavy modular frame manufacturer that in theory should perpetually sink

[vast jungle]

you will need an overflow-splitter and a sink anyways if you want to use the resin somewhere else

[latent seal]

but, i need to use the flexible frame recipe, i have it and it makes perfect sense in my setup

[past reef]

most often with resin you just sink them, but filter automation will be nice and it only needs like 30 resin per min per person

while you can make empty canister from the resin and do some funny logistics for t9 diamond things I don't recommend it

[latent seal]

you know it makes sense to use hte resin for containers because plastic is the packaging for my truck line

[oblique hollow]

packaged turbofuel for diamonds yippie

i dont get why they dont just use liquid turbofuel tho

[latent seal]

yeah i do not comprehend the necessity of the packaging step for vehicles

[oblique hollow]

the accelerator has a fluid input even

[latent seal]

i understand that packaging is required for massive logistics, like shipping oil across an ocean

but its not needed to fuel your car 😄

but maybe thats the concept

its not that it comes to your car in a package, the reason it costs a package is because that package was -somewhere- in the logistics chain

same as coated plates

my opinion is that you don't have an actual plastic plate, just that plastics were used in the manufacturing process, and that doubled/tripled your output

[vast jungle]

most likely they just wanted to mess with us 😄

[latent seal]

whoah
that 60 water is the excess from my alumina refinery 😛

60 goes here and 60 goes back into the alumina machine

from the scrap refineries

[past reef]

Question about tracks, I have a push pull line on red with 3 freights. I have guaranteed that the 3 freights are of the same item (stator) and balanced and fully unloaded when arriving. Connecting the end of the loop will not affect anything even if my train is flipped per cycle right

[latent seal]

lets reframe - because i didn't quite understand the question

i want to connect to the end of the loop ---- you mean you want to complete the loop?

if you don't completely unload you will end up with a mixed train

which isn't problematic, unless you aren't set up to receive mixed materials

[past reef]

yeah so make it a full loop

[latent seal]

so you have to account for that potentiality (its always potential jus by existing in the game world)
that you will end up with a train with 2 different items

[past reef]

as for material they're all stators, spaced out to have even input in each freight

[latent seal]

so there are a looooot of little factors that could influence whether or not you fully unloaded

so simply put, you have to build in a system to account for mixed trains

you either push pull or you push and sort

[past reef]

as said I only load that train with stator it's 3 freight since I can't do 2 with 7 stacks per min in total

[latent seal]

you won't ever get the maximum use out of your trains unless you mix your products

[past reef]

it's 3 freight not 3 types of item in 3 freight

[latent seal]

if you loop it it will be fine if there is only 1 item

it won't care

but in your current system, you could theoretically push and pull more item types

but if you connect it, then you must do all kinds of things

to support more item types

the decision hinges on whether or not you need multiple item types, and whether you need them now or later

[past reef]

it's an already finished line, I realistically can't get more relevant stuff since it's electromagnetic rod only

[latent seal]

then connect it, why waste the trains energy backtracking, but thats very subjective and not related to actual game logic 😄

[past reef]

I mainly just want to check if having the train flip might cause blocked load when it's flipped

I'll monitor the manifold to make sure it's really unloading everything then I can probably just make the connection

[latent seal]

even if it didn't unload all, it will just take the remainder

[past reef]

it's still making RTT already but that track just look a bit bad on map

[latent seal]

and loop it back around the system

right?

[past reef]

yeah but if my A couldn't fully unload then when it flip it could fully fill up C and block the load, anyways I'll just monitor the loading for a couple more cycles

[latent seal]

well, that 1 remainder is not an unneeded unit

it is not as if that remainder will perpetually exist

it should under normal conditions filter out on the next truck

meaning, it will correct itself will it not?

truly it only means that your system handled gracefully exactly what its supposed to handle, and why we use trains and not belts

you could accomplish the same result by looping your belt around and feeding the remainder back into the belt at the source

you essentially have a buffer, and that buffer

is exponentially larger on the train

[past reef]

the belt analogy is interesting, indeed it would correct itself, the unknowns right now for me is whether or not my manifold is truly not overfed

[latent seal]

you'll find out if you let it sit long enough 😛

[past reef]

yeah I need to manual stabilize the manifold a little bit anyways I can monitor it for another hour

[latent seal]

trucks are just fancy belts and trains are just fancy trucks

you can solve the same exact problem with a belt as you can a train

the belt just looks a bit more complicated

so if you can figure out how to do it with a belt

then you know how the train works

i haven't built a train yet though, I am still pushing my trucks to the limit

this is my receiving facility:

its kind of a rough draft right now,
but the concept is that in order to reduce the amount of truck stations, I need a smart receiving warehouse

so I now have 4 truck stations, for each cardinal direction, and I use the receiving facility as a massive sorting operation

I hold buffers for the material that are large enough to accommodate the scaling time it takes to actually sort the various inputs

[versed violet]

Why not make it 1 way train? Connect the loop (yellow in your pic) and add a trunabout at end behind station in your main base

[past reef]

after I built everything there's actually no space to do a ring anymore after the receiving station

I always did push pull so I planned for push pull, but now after I looked at the map for train track footprint I saw that the loop looks not as good as I wanted

[versed violet]

can you fit a single track going out of factory and rejoin it to the incoming line?

[past reef]

probably not without a ramp

the line in question is right beside the power tower

[versed violet]

how does the exit side look like?

[past reef]

its completely blocked by drone port and whatnot let me go back there

the gray/white one

[feral elk]

how many rotors yall making per min?

[outer vale]

around 5 or 6

[fringe seal]

post-endgame, ~120

[outer vale]

my T9 factory's gonna be making a whole 8/min

(plus whatever it's using as part of the rest of the production chain, but that doesn't count)

[fringe seal]

I plan to make 60 uranium rods / min, for 72 nuke gens @ 250%
that means I need 120 rotors per min

[outer vale]

yeah but that's part of its factory, so IMO doesn't really count

it's like saying "I make 5000 ingots", yeah you probably are but they're going straight into other stuff

[fringe seal]

well it's on the grassfields, nuke plant is planned to go to the swamp

the leftover is 11.25 rotors / min

I'll gonna need so many drones I think

[vague sentinel]

Have you checked the miner speed

[cyan heath]

60 a minute.

It's on a normal node.

[vague sentinel]

Are you underclocking the smelters?

[cyan heath]

Don't have access to overclocks yet.

[vague sentinel]

Soooooo

You tried to put a 60 iron node into 3 30 smelters

3*30 is not 60 tho

[cyan heath]

Ohhhhhh that's my issue

🤦‍♀️

[vague sentinel]

Don’t

Do not slap self

Ficsit does not offer leave for self-inflicted injuries

[cyan heath]

Damnit.

There's also an issue with my Iron Rod production

[near hatch]

i have 9 input pipes and 121 machine output, is it appropriate to connect everything in a single pipe network but leave space between every entry of an input ?

[cyan heath]

Normally the amount of rods I make doesn't line up with the amount the machine intakes

[vague sentinel]

Can I get a screenshot from above

[cyan heath]

Ah I just started tearing things down to rebuild

[vague sentinel]

Sure

[cyan heath]

Sorry bout that 😅

[vague sentinel]

You are making rotors right?

Just to be sure

[livid turret]

It's probably better to divide the pipes in groups that use 600 to avoid having to troubleshoot the whole system

[cyan heath]

Yes. Ideally I'd like to make Reinforced Iron Plates and soon Modular Frames.

Working on a milestone atm

[near hatch]

the thing is that a set of machine wont match the throughput of one of the input pipes...

[vague sentinel]

How mutch iron ore do you have?

[near hatch]

thats why i want to connect everything so it evens out everywhere

[cyan heath]

416 on its own right now. I have a shitton of leftover resources I have no clue what to do with.

I just dump em' into the ficsit rewards thing

[vague sentinel]

How many rotors would you like to make?

[cyan heath]

18 to complete the milestone, though I could also keep the setup there for later use of them.

It's also worth noting I have a second normal iron deposit next to the one I have.

[vague sentinel]

In rotors per minute

[cyan heath]

Um... Idk? Just a normal amount???

[vague sentinel]

So 2 normal nodes?

[cyan heath]

I'm kinda new to this 😅

[vague sentinel]

To rotors

[livid turret]

You can try, the worst that could happen is to have a couple of machines starved

[cyan heath]

WEll generally to any iron products I'd need.

[vague sentinel]

To make more iron products you can grab more ore

[cyan heath]

Like I said, IDEALLY I'd like to automate items like Reinforced Iron Plates and Modular Frames.

[vague sentinel]

It is time to do a different part of the ficsit motto

Exploration

Go and find some power slugs or hard drives

I keep getting decimals and I do not like the regulair screws

[cyan heath]

Got it boss

How many should I go look for?

[cyan heath]

Well I found one but it's

Upwards.

[stone delta]

I built a veritical manifold of pipes for nitrogen gas, and to my surprise, the flow was off. I have 8 buildings, each one taking in 150 ppm, and all connected vertically in an H manifold of two 600 pipes. It seems to work if I disconnect the H junction. Is this typical gas behavoir? I thought only fluids had this problem.

[vague sentinel]

one blue and 2 of a kind

sorry for the wait i was jumped by 4 gas/elete stingers

do not leave your spawn until you have bombs

many bombs

[vague sentinel]

stackable convair supports are ladders

press r to zoop them up

[cyan heath]

I got it

It's a purple one

[vague sentinel]

nice

you have a blue one yet

[cyan heath]

Just got another.

The next one is in a cloud of toxic gas

Okay got it, it's yello

[vague sentinel]

can you make a mam

[cyan heath]

I have one already

I just researched yellow slugs was that important

I found another one but it's uh

In a rock

[tiny leaf]

if i put a fluid storage at the top of a water tower will the water tower still work as intended? meaning anything under the top level of the water tower will never have headlift issues

[brisk smelt]

why the hell would you build a water tower

[brisk smelt]

but yes buffers reset headlift, ur fine

[tiny leaf]

its not like an actual water tower

im building a buffer for my fuel gens

just incase

and making the highest point of the pipes higher than machines gets rid of headlift issues

[brisk smelt]

buffers should be placed in parallel not series

and you already have a 50m3*n buffer by way of the fuel gen buffer

[tiny leaf]

yeah true

idk ill add just 1 buffer before i split the pipes to gens

[jolly furnace]

should I be going for space or speed

[prisma kraken]

sexiest thing evah

[brisk smelt]

clocking water extractors to exact numbers? never seen that befre...

unless recycling shenanigans

[proud ferry]

if you make water mega buffer stack top each another make sure put pump pipe

[latent seal]

woooweee who doesn't love a good aluminum scrap ref that feeds its water back into the process perrrrfectly
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cfa6cjs9t190wnfk6ukzh/FactoryGameSteam-Win64-Shipping_Osi4V3HF6o.mp4?rlkey=4gssnjbyyo6hmpjonujequgpx&dl=0

[livid turret]

Space first always, you have all the time in the world to fill the dimensional depots

Also the skill that let you upload from inventory

[tiny leaf]

with rocket fuel since its a gas its better to not use buffers right?

[jolly furnace]

yeah i got that one already i love it sm

[modest zealot]

[outer vale]

better to not use buffers for any fluid if you can avoid it (which you usually can)

[jolly furnace]

what are some good alt recipes for my first hmf? I have encased indust pipe, heavy encased frame, and steeled frame.

[outer vale]

solid steel's pretty... solid

[fossil basalt]

Those are the good ones

Plus ingots

[jolly furnace]

I dont have slid steel but I have compacted steel

[fossil basalt]

" you'll never regret making more steel pipes"

[outer vale]

mine used heavy encased, encased pipe, solid steel, and cast screw. I'm sure you could work steel-based recipes into that to rebalance resources however you see fit

[charred saffron]

I think mine only used wet concrete and steel screw. You can use many alts, just figure out what you want/need and where your necessary resources are

[jolly furnace]

alr thanks guys

its kinda temporary im prob just going to make like 5 per min

to get me through the milestone requirements and for trains

[outer vale]

lol temporary, that'll handle your personal usage ~forever probably

[jolly furnace]

5 per min?

[outer vale]

mine was also 5/min and still going strong in T9

[wind spade]

5/min is enough for pretty much all the game

[jolly furnace]

hmm okay well Igues thats good then

[outer vale]

not like I'm using it to feed into other factories

[jolly furnace]

oh just for mats

and stuff, okay thats good

[wind spade]

I don't really recommend feeding other machines this way

[jolly furnace]

you mean as run-off from a personal line?

[wind spade]

I mean that if a factory needs something as ingredient, it should make that itself

[jolly furnace]

ah okay

[vernal patio]

about drone ports. can i have multiple ports with no fuel supply offload into one port full of fuel? assuming i handload those empty ports for the initial trip.

as in, will drones have the presense of mind to get their sustenance on the far end of their journey?

[past reef]

you mean drone on port A without fuel supply going to port B with fuel supply? yes it will always resupply to do a full trip

[prisma kraken]

yes, that's the way you do it... just drop a stack of fuel into the remote port to bootstrap the first fetch. after that you can take the remaining fuel back

incidentally, this is why i used to actually keep a mall container of batteries in my mall (in 1.0, just setting up a dim depot suffices)

also, as an FYI, the strange pipe headlift being incorrect bug still exists in 1.0 - I just had to work through a situation where that presented itself

i think i know now how to make that happen 🙂

[modest zealot]

only takes 960 quartz

[fossil basalt]

The most minimzing way to make that would use 640

That's... not that much less for how much more complicated it is

[modest zealot]

i need alot for a factory so

lol

[latent seal]

thats a bit

but like, fine silica

[modest zealot]

255 silica and 288 crystals for a computer, crystal oscillator and high speed connecters factory

[latent seal]

i feel like i use nowhere near that much silica

[modest zealot]

nah its cause i dont use plastic alot so

[latent seal]

ahhh

yeah so my circuit boards are plastic and copper i think

[modest zealot]

mine are silica

[latent seal]

ahh

[modest zealot]

and cooper

so i can build my factory anywhere and i can still make the stuff and i dont need to deal with oil

[latent seal]

ive committed a bit to oil 😛

think im at 28 refineries now

[modest zealot]

second pic is old world

[latent seal]

nice, is there a recipe to turn biofuel into anything else?

[modest zealot]

dont think so but its good for jetpack fuel

[latent seal]

but turbo fuel is better 😦

[modest zealot]

biofuel last like 3x times longer

[latent seal]

its true, but vertical lift is important

[modest zealot]

it just spam the space and it gets there

i dont wanna waste my turbofuel

[latent seal]

im gonna spend most of mine on ammo

[modest zealot]

mine are making power

12.5gw to be exact with only 675 oil per min

[latent seal]

i have 150, i most likely will end up being power

turbofuel p/m i mean

[modest zealot]

i had 200k concrete and i ran out after only like 4 hours 😭

[latent seal]

nice

[modest zealot]

i mean building something like this takes ALOT of concrete

[compact lagoon]

i just got the game and im learning that no matter how much concrete i think i need, i will need a lot more

[modest zealot]

yeah i also got into the game

[wet python]

finally finished my 4400 rocket fuel power plant. i had previously abandoned after building about 250 of the 1056 generators (ran out of motors and had enough power already). These 250 were enough to finish the game... just went back and build the rest for the ocd.

[modest zealot]

nicee

[compact lagoon]

had the game about 2 weeks and im 140 hours in

[wet python]

and also had to fix a lot of stuff to make it work 100%

[modest zealot]

yeah i have had it since 1.0 came out

[wet python]

and the refineries are below all that

[amber umbra]

Biiig

[wet python]

and the plans

i would recommend going for half of it.... too much hassle. If you need more power than that go nuclear.

[prisma kraken]

is it just me or does snap-aligning extractors seem broken now?

little more centered of a pic

[whole viper]

I don't like that we can't put them on foundations anymore

[prisma kraken]

orly?

haven't tried that yet, but if that's the case, um uggg

[whole viper]

you used to be able to put them on a foundation to align them perfectly. But now they have a lower collision

[prisma kraken]

that stinks

[whole viper]

yea

[prisma kraken]

unless that changed in the past patch or two (like in the past 2 weeks), it may be that your foundation just isn't low enough

[whole viper]

unfortunatly, i think it was a change pre 1.0

[prisma kraken]

still works

extractors can't be placed with overlapping hitboxes to bp's

[unborn ermine]

Yeah If you layer BPs you can get some good work done with extractors

[prisma kraken]

my experience is that you want to keep bp placement a good distance away from where you are planning to build extractors... the squarish bounding box region for extractors is really rather large

[whole viper]

weird. I just tried it myself and it now works for me. It wasn't working for a long time for me. Even as late as yesterday

[unborn ermine]

This is from a while back, did some tests with a design that was screenshot'd

[prisma kraken]

idk why that works, if you place a bp that the top of the extractor glances, it'll prohibit the extractor's placement

what i mean... the thing with power storages & columns is a bp

different subject, i broke down and installed the xl bp mod to be able to do a 10x10 bp for the recycling loops... pictured is 3600 plastic

i really kind of wish that bp's didn't have dimensions but instead had item counts or material cost as limitations

(or just that the sizes for them would continue to be upgradable until some limit that is too big)

i sort of feel like bp size actually ends up limiting itself because of the game's terrain - too big ends up being impracticle unless you're doing a skybase

[unborn ermine]

What I found out, it will look through the entire range from the water

So, the surface all the way to the upper bounding box

[prisma kraken]

hmmm, ok

[unborn ermine]

anything above the water will be no bueno for BP unless its above that.
(unless you do extractors like I showed first)

its so gross

[prisma kraken]

there's probably some horrible spaghetti code for the water extractors that no one really wants to touch for fear of breaking stuff, lol

i'm guessing that's why c&p for them was only just added 😉

[unborn ermine]

That and blueprints seems like they still have a lot of work to go, like I found a couple things you can still zoop out of the BP maker

[prisma kraken]

can anyone else give snap-aligning extractors a try and see if i'm just imagining that the alignment changed in the last patch?

yeah, one thing i find annoying in 1.0 is that double sided power nubs can't be placed on a bp's border wall anymore

imho, that's a pretty big annoying

[unborn ermine]

Mine worked

[prisma kraken]

i must have something weird going on where aligning to alt grid is going wonky

[prisma kraken]

@unborn ermine one thing that i've been finding as a bit of a deficiency in the trainifold idea is that on the terminal sink end, its difficult to figure out how much sink capacity one really needs if you're trying to both get stuff into storage and sink the remainder in the same place

[wet python]

if extractor is not aligning correctly, turn it one more tick with the mouse wheel before holding ctrl

[prisma kraken]

yeah, if the grid you are aligning it all to is on an odd angle, the extractors do funny alignment things

i got my extractors looking clean enough that they're not noticeably misaligned or anything which is good enough until something i can't unsee bugs me, if that happens, i'll fuss with it a bit more 🙂

[unborn ermine]

I know my iron spot, im sending in the iron to be dealt with, but also making iron.
So right now I opted to fully deal with the produced iron for one product, Iron Wire, then the trained in iron will handle the rest.
Its not the best, because both sides have a decent amount sunk, but it will let me throttle my sink on my train overflow a bit more leniently.

heres the plan so it makes more sense, producing 1040/min iron with pure refineries.

[prisma kraken]

where i've been having problems with it is that i have some lines that are coming into my main base and will eventually end up being an amount that is less than 1200/min, but i just added 3600 plastic production to the world, and that's currently ending up back on a line at my main base that is only handing 1200/min

so i'm having to add some supplemental sinks to content with such things. I'm wondering if something more clever will occur to me, but atm, it kind of seems like something i'd have to do some janky beltwork to bullet proof

[unborn ermine]

yeah I went with the "buffer" of sinkable items route.
probably the least elegant

[prisma kraken]

i know of a few solutions to the problem, but i'm really not keen on any of them, so i'm living with the problem for now

incidentally, i run into variations on this problem in pretty much every playthrough where i'm centralizing product and need to pay attention to capacities on the sink lines coming from trains, truck stations and local merged sushi lines

right now my sink lines all look like variations of this

it isn't bad, i just feel like there's something smarter i could be doing

[steel knot]

i'm drawn towards nitro rocket fuel for the simplicity. am I making a big mistake?

versus the regular formula

[prisma kraken]

not really, probably biggest factor in deciding is whether you intend on building for a lot of hours and making lots of stuff, or if you want to sort of minimally complete the game

[unborn ermine]

Well more locational than that tbh.
Like me on west coast, just more oil than sulphur.

[prisma kraken]

if you are doing something like a max nuclear or 60/60/60 phase 5 delivery rate goal in your playthrough, the oil and sulfur become more valuable, and as such, you might want to use default to use as little of one or the other resource as you can, but if you have a more modest goal, either recipe gives a lot of power

[unborn ermine]

60/60/60/min sounds painful on top of just doing things

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, i was just naming it as an example of something stoopid big, lol

tbh, i'm not even sure if such a goal is possible

[unborn ermine]

earlier someone mentioned trying for 500/min pasta
you cant even do 500/min cubes for them.
(467ish is the resource cap in Tools + alts)

and thats with EVERYTHING

[prisma kraken]

i'd be surprised if you could even do 120/min of pasta

perhaps 500 isn't outlandish if you leverage converters

[unborn ermine]

134.339 in tools, same method

[prisma kraken]

nah, i take that all back. 120 is easy if you have the sloops

[unborn ermine]

"easy"

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, yeah, lol

i'm honestly looking to make 60/min for pasta

might try for 75/min if i can swing it

(no sloops)

[unborn ermine]

Yeah thats SO not for me.

not even a "personal" choice, PC cant handle it.

[prisma kraken]

ehhh, totally about OC'ing everything 😄

you forgot about alclad sheets, btw

[fallow siren]

ok why is fully oc coal gen need 113/m water instead of 112.5

[prisma kraken]

it rounds it up due to impression in the way the numeric display function is called for UI formatting reasons

i.e. the function to format the number is being told to display 3 significant digits, so it needs to round it to 112 or 113 and the latter is 'more correct'

[nimble grove]

ok smart guy normal words please

[fallow siren]

ic, but is it only for display purpose or u actually need to fed 113/min of water?

[prisma kraken]

just displays it wrong, you sometimes see the same weirdness in other places, like when you clock something to make 66.66666666666 ingot/min, it'll actually display 66.6667

the place where it actually is a little annoying is that heavy encased frame makes 2.1825 frame/min, but the manufacturer UI actually displays it making 2.813/min

err, i reversed the 1 & 8 in that, sorry

[patent blaze]

iron ✅

[lilac horizon]

is it a good idea to use sommersloops on my future power plant? I have about 120 backed up from just not using them, also I kept my save when they respawned in the patch. This alone already used 20 for 5 manufacturers D:

also the power costs would be negligible compared to basically making 4 times the power I think

[patent blaze]

lol wtf the machines arent even running

i have 128 refineries that im pasting recipes into

maybe its the miners

[prisma kraken]

in general, you can use them wherever you want unless you're planning max nuclear which sort of forces you into using them in the ficsonium chain

best bang for the buck with sloops though is to use them in the most refined (latest game) items so that you are doubling EVERYTHING that goes into the product as well

as far as power generation goes, you'll probably get more out of putting sloops into APA's

[past reef]

aren't there certain t9 recipe that can't be full slooped or slooped at all due to buffer capacity

doubled warp drive is fine though

[prisma kraken]

I'd have to look, i think there's a few recipes where slooping them pushes past 1200/min, but those aren't t9 recipes

[past reef]

just the dark matter residue ones, iirc some does 25 DMR per cycle which means if full slooped it'd block the machine

[prisma kraken]

the only t9 recipe i can think of without opening the codex, is turbodiamond that takes 1800/min coal if fully OC'd (not related to sloops)

idk, sloops don't affect input at all. its same cycle as normal, just output. DMC is a 100-stack, so i doubt even doubling it really would kill things. I have seen that slooped protein -> biomass has problems

[past reef]

there's probably a power threshold (likely after both nuclear + decent scale rocket fuel) that APA would be better than uranium rod but I never mathed it out

[prisma kraken]

well, napkin mathing it... uranium rod alt makes 0.6 rod/min -> 1.2/min for 4 sloops

[past reef]

am running around with 300GW now before nuclear and APA seems to be worth so much more

[prisma kraken]

that takes you from 3->6 reactors worth of fuel, or an additional 7.5 gw

i can tell you atm i have 120 gw of rf power, 12 gw of coal and then most of the geotherm on the map. with 8 APA's online, i'm actually making in the neighborhood of 250gw

[past reef]

sloop on a 200% quantum encoder give 5 extra APA = 60GW on my case (when I get to make them that is)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that isn't a bad place for sloops, but you're tying up 10 sloops in each APA, so the question i have to ask with that is whether adding 14 sloops worth of boosted APA is better than going nuclear, and that's a function of how much power you're making already

past a certain point the math is sort of moot. you can generate more power than you can reasonably ever use, so its more a question of what you wish to build and how you want to power it

really once you get into the 100gw+ range, you'll be hard pressed to make enough factory to use it 😛

once you start automating a lot of t9 volume, yeah the machines gobble up power, but you kind of don't need a lot of them until you look at massive nuclear builds

[past reef]

yeah I'm only 100-130GW usage putting the nuclear build together, even the giant electromagnetic rod build barely gobble up 20GW, need the t9 machine to use the excess power

[prisma kraken]

once you start looking at stuff like ficsonium or ion fuel, they just need a mess of particle accelerators to make the time crystal, and that isn't cheap

[prisma kraken]

ECR's just stink to make, lol. Did you go with the base or alt recipe?

[past reef]

went with base, full iron stator + plastic limiter + fused quickwire

[prisma kraken]

that's sort of what i'm thinking. I may use cat wire for the stators though

[past reef]

if I didn't have a vertical stack stator bp I would have done caterium wire too

[prisma kraken]

i just pushed my rails down into the swamp for a few things i need to build there (alum, ai limiters, hsc's)

still sort of planning out how to make use of the biome

right now i'm trying to figure out how to use the 600 excess coke i can make from the swamp oil

[ionic crystal]

little bit late, but what tool do you use for that?

[prisma kraken]

that's satisfactorytools.com

[ionic crystal]

thanks!

[wary rapids]

it would appear it will be to easy and leave to much empty space in my existing facilities to finish phase 4 so im going to run the math with builds for sinking all the phase 4 space parts.

current plan.

i cannot do it scooty i dont have the power.

[patent blaze]

great success

[wary rapids]

You did nulclear?

[patent blaze]

yeah reset everything

fuel rod production had like half the control rods it needed cause of plastic loss

[wary rapids]

So you scaled your plastic and made the targets the rest of your inferstucture can handle.

at this point i should make new bigger factories after and intermission with rocket fuel.